JoNova

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Not quite the path to freedom. Even 80% vaxed Australia could mean 25,000 dead, 270,000 with long covid

Community Transmission Australian States. Covid August 25th

Most of Australia is living with freedom, not the virus. “Living with the virus” means long lockdowns in NSW. Who wants that?

The Australian Federal government wants to “open up the nation” when we reach 70 or 80% vaccinated, like it’s The Sign of Bethlehem, or something, but the No-Covid States are rebelling and it’s no wonder. Being free of Chinese Bioweapons means being free to dance, sing, work and send the kids to school — and the voters rather like that. No virus means no lockdown. The States with zero covid know that if they let the virus in even at 80% “vaxed” they’ll have less freedom. They might get to fly to London but they’ll have to give up Big Weddings, Parties, and possibly Grandpa too.

The key value is and always was hospital beds. The hospitalization rates mean even at the magical 80% double-vaccinated mark hospitals will be overwhelmed, forcing states to flatten the curve for months and stand in the street banging tin pots at 9pm each night to say thanks to strung out health workers. We don’t need modeling to know this, it happened already in places like the UK, Spain and Italy. It only took a few percent of the population to get infected and hospitals were overwhelmed.

It’s just maths. There are 12,000 active cases in Sydney now  — so a mere 0.15% of the NSW population is infected, but hospitals are already running out of beds. Cancer surgery is being rescheduled.

Coronavirus-vaccine. Photo

Photo by Hakan Nural on Unsplash

These first generation vaccines are not remotely good enough. Even most of the pro-vax modelers admit we have to vaccinate more 90% of the whole population (really 95%, they say) and in that scenario, there are still thousands of deaths and ongoing restrictions. If the vaccines stopped transmission it might be different. But the leaky sort only halve it (see Table 3 below). Even the 100% vaccinated cruise ship still spread the virus.

If States-with-Freedom open borders to States-with-lockdowns, the lockdowns will spread, not the freedom.

Before we open up we need a better plan than purist vaccination.

The solution is profoundly right wing: it’s hard borders, state rights, free speech and free choice — the right to pick the treatment we want with our doctor. But bizarrely, at the moment, the conservative party in Australia has become the best friend of Big Pharma and Big Bureaucrats while The Labor Premiers are fighting for hard borders and state rights.

Relying on first generation vaxes without antivirals is a train-wreck.

It’s almost like Scott Morrison and Gladys Berejiklian like lockdowns. Judge them by the outcomes, not their words. How many billions of dollars lost, deaths, and broken businesses will it take for them to investigate the bargain vitamin and out-of-patent drugs that have saved thousands in the third world? Instead, they’re trying to sell us on a scheme that might have been written by Big Pharma itself.

Morrison must be frazzled, calling West Australians and Queenslanders “cave dwellers,” because they have not ram-vaccinated as many people as disaster-land-NSW. With insults and a totally Sydney-centric perspective, he may have just handed the next national election to Labor. Were the Liberals hoping to win any seats in WA? Did the Liberals learn nothing from their humiliating WA state election loss?

There is a battle of models going on as well, as various Governments in Australia try to figure out what to do next. All of these models start from the one-eyed Vaccines-Will-Save-Us-Kemosabe! point of view. But it’s eye opening to follow the calculations which mostly show that infecting the nation at 70 or 80% vaxed is reckless. The only model that doesn’t is the Doherty institute’s, and it’s a fantasy model. But that’s the one Scott Morrison is betting the house on. All the models assume there is no other treatment and no one does anything to raise Vitamin D or Zn levels. So all the models are flawed, but we can still learn something from them.

The Grafton ANU modelling concludes that the toll from playing games with novel viruses could be quite high:

“And assuming 80 per cent vaccination coverage for only those over 16, as per the National Plan, there could be approximately 25,000 fatalities and some 270,000 cases of long COVID.

Buried quietly is modelling from The Burnet Institute, which suggests that fully 45% of these deaths will be among the vaccinated population. There are three million Australians older than 70. Even if we vaccinate 95% of them, and even if the Pfizer vaccine protects 96% of that group, there are still potentially a lot of dead bodies in that age group in the wake of the virus. (And the AZ vaccine only stops 92% of deaths.)

No one wants to copy the pain that the people of NSW are going through. Who can blame the smaller states? We almost suspect that what Berejiklian and Morrison are most afraid of is that clean states will show how wrong and incompetent the NSW approach is.

What if the ACT, Victoria, or New Zealand get back to zero? Won’t that make the “gold standard” state look like chumps.

Coronavirus structure

Image: Scientific Animations

The Doherty team models a different virus in an imaginary world

In a fantasy simulation the Doherty group pretend we start with only 30 cases, which is about 900 cases lower than NSW already has. They assume we can manage to track and trace them, which has already failed in NSW (test results are slow, and tracers are not even phoning infected people for a couple of days!). The Doherty model pretends that children don’t spread the virus much, and only runs the simulation for the first six months. It’s like they set out to show the nation can open at 70-80%, and made up the assumptions to achieve that.

In the fine print the Doherty group also assumes the Ro (rate of spread) is reduced from an awesome 6.3 down to 3.6. That means they also assume many ongoing restrictions are in place to halve the rate of spread. Presumably that means Australia can kiss goodbye to football finals, concerts, festivals, big weddings and funerals, and “live with” ongoing masks and lots of distancing. This is a Big-Pharma version of freedom, where we live with death and the last 20-30% of the population are put under major pressure to get vaxed or to hide from public life. How much fun can you have? Booster shots, baby! Big Pharma know that if the nation opens up at 80% the headlines will be full of stories of loss and deaths and reasons to push the last 20% towards an injection.

The Grafton modelling estimates hospitalization and deaths

Here’s a table we rarely see. There are a lot of caveats –see below.

CHR – Case Hospitalization rate.        IFR  – Infection fatality rate.

High vaccination coverage is required before public health measures can be relaxed and Australia’s international border fully reopened

Deaths may be higher because…

  • They don’t include deaths related to long covid, or an “overshoot of herd immunity” which I think means a surge that overwhelms hospitals where death rates rapidly rise. They don’t include deaths due to non-Covid causes, such as suicides, undiagnosed cancers, or people avoiding hospitals because they are afraid of catching Covid.
  • These estimates only consider immediate acute Covid deaths. But in the first wave of the UK epidemic, people who survived and left hospital were subsequently four times as likely to be readmitted to hospital and eight times as likely to die than a matched control group. [14] In other words, deaths can lag illness by a long time.
  • The next mutation escapes the current vaccines.

Deaths may be lower if…

  • Australians have higher levels of Vitamin D, maybe lower levels of comorbidities or high risk genes, or they might get scripts to use antivirals. These are not even mentioned in the paper.
  • The death rate due to Delta is lower than estimated here. The death rates are estimated from Canadian data which estimates that Delta is 2.3 times as deadly as the original Wuflu [11]. The hospitalization rate is likely be to be twice as much as the Alpha strain, which was already 1.5 times higher than the original, based on English and Scottish data [8] [9]). The hospitalization rate for Delta is thus three times higher than the original Wuhan Flu. It’s bad. The Delta variant pumps up the viral load faster, so it swamps immune systems faster and spreads more easily. That explains the higher hospitalization rate, and it’s hard to believe it won’t also increase the death rate — but it may not increase it by the same ratio. The deaths are more about vascular clotting and an overactive immune system, which doctors might be still able to treat.

Vaccines assumed to stop half of transmission:

Though if the Israel data applies to all cohorts, after 6 months, VE of infection is 0.16 and presumably OR (Transmission) must be less too.

  • Vaccine Efficacy, Pfizer, AstraZenica

    The ChADOx means Astrazenica, and Comrinaty means Pfizer vax.

From the ANU Grafton modelling press release:

Even 80% vaxed is not enough for Australia to live free

Professor Quentin Grafton from The Australian National University, Dr Zoë Hyde from the University of Western Australia and Professor Tom Kompas from the University of Melbourne examined the Australian Government’s National Plan to reduce restrictions once enough adults are vaccinated.

Under the National Plan, once more than 80 per cent of adults receive two doses of COVID-19 vaccines, equivalent to approximately 65 per cent of the total population, the nation will “manage COVID-19 consistent with public health management of other infectious diseases”.

Professor Grafton said the new modelling showed “we simply can’t afford to do that, both in terms of lives and long-term illness from COVID”.

“We found substantial morbidity and mortality is likely to occur if the Australian Government sticks to the National Plan,” he said.

“Our modelling shows if 70 per cent of Australians over 16 years of age are fully vaccinated, with a 95 per cent vaccination level for those aged 60 years and over, there could eventually be some 6.9 million symptomatic COVID-19 cases, 154,000 hospitalisations, and 29,000 fatalities.

“And assuming 80 per cent vaccination coverage for only those over 16, as per the National Plan, there could be approximately 25,000 fatalities and some 270,000 cases of long COVID.

“In contrast, and if children are also fully vaccinated, national fatalities for all age groups would be reduced to 19,000 with 80 per cent adult vaccination coverage. This would fall to 10,000 at a 90 per cent adult vaccination coverage.

“Children also directly benefit from vaccination. If we could achieve 75 cent vaccination coverage among children and adolescents, we could prevent 12,000 hospitalisations in these age groups.”

Grafton conclusions are to Triple vax the over 60s and vax all the kids?

The Grafton team are essentially saying we need to vaccinate at least 90% of all Australians including children to consider opening with a lower death rate. They assume that 95% of the over 60s are vaccinated, and even consider doing this with two doses of AZ plus the Pfizer booster shot to maximize protection. But even with all that  vaccination, the death rates are still too high unless children are vaccinated too. Even under this scenario, with “only” 70% of Australians vaccinated and the over 60’s “triple vaxed,” they estimate there will still be  nearly 30,000 deaths and nearly 300,000 with long Covid.

Nearly half of the deaths will be in the vaccinated.

Readers may well disagree with the conclusions, but the modeling and assumptions and references are all there to discuss. (See the links below).

Nearly 7 million Australians will get symptomatic infection — which still means some significant productivity hit to workers and students, even if “it’s like the Flu”. We can bear that, but do we have to?

Coronavirus cases in the last week in Australia.

Locally acquired cases in each Australian state for the last seven days.*

Is it worth it?

All these deaths, the sickness, and the experimental vaccines is to allow us visit friends overseas, and let in tourists to help our tourism industry. It also means Qantas can make more money, and we can accept mass immigration that most Australian don’t want (and which pushes down blue collar wages, and pushes up house prices). It also means we can take in Chinese paying students to universities. “Yay”.

Obviously the West has totally failed to stop the Chinese Bioweapon. It is now a given that we’ll all get it or one of its descendants eventually. But there is a huge difference between getting this mutation now — without any respectable approved treatments and with 30,000 deaths — and getting a different mutation a year from now — with a suite of antivirals and / or the second generation of vaccines (which might be so much safer). Monoclonal antibodies may make travel possible without a vaccine. So may a combination of antivirals, like the way we treat AIDS. The next mutation may get nicer like Spanish Flu did, or it might not.

What they are trying to do is distract Australians from the real debate, which is about borders and antivirals.

The modelling from Professor Grafton, Dr Hyde and Professor Kompas is available online as a pre-print publication. Read an analysis article by the three researchers about their findings and proposed four-step national COVID-19 response at Policy Forum.

 

PS: Before commenters say it, this modelling is not “like climate change”. That doesn’t make it right, but it’s 20 pages not 2000, it’s all published, the assumptions are spelled out and it isn’t trying to predict waves of infections on a regional basis using a bottom up grid system with error bars wider than the trends. Nor is it trying to predict mutations and death rates 100 years in the future.

The point is not the exact number of deaths, but that using purely vaccines and ignoring all the other solutions is a bad strategy.

REFERENCES

Stats on Australian infections:   https://www.covid19data.com.au/   and  https://covidlive.com.au/

[8] Nyberg T, Twohig KA, Harris RJ et al. Risk of hospital admission for patients with SARS-CoV-2
variant B.1.1.7: cohort analysis. BMJ 2021; 373: n1412.
[9]  Public Health England. SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in
England. Technical briefing 15. London: Government of the United Kingdom, 2021.

[11] Fisman DN, Tuite AR. Progressive increase in virulence of novel SARS-CoV-2 variants in
Ontario, Canada. medRxiv [pre-print] 2021.

[14] Public Health England. SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in
England. Technical briefing 20. London: Government of the United Kingdom, 2021.

ANU Modelling Press release  . Paper in PDF.

*Said with hubris.

 

7.5 out of 10 based on 79 ratings

339 comments to Not quite the path to freedom. Even 80% vaxed Australia could mean 25,000 dead, 270,000 with long covid

  • #
    mwhite

    “It may be one of the most-vaccinated countries on earth, but the Seychelles has seen an explosion in cases – and the imposition of crippling new lockdown restrictions – since rolling out the Covid-19 jab.”

    https://www.newsafrica.net/world/seychelles-what-is-causing-the-post-vax-rise-in-cases

    “95% of seriously ill patients are vaccinated. FULLY VACCINATED PEOPLE account for 85-90% of hospitalizations.The effectiveness of vaccines is decreasing”

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/PPo10V48ty36/

    Or perhaps they do not work???

    500

    • #
      Jojodogfacedboy(A Collateral Damage Victim by Progressive Policies)

      [Snip. Please stick to the topic in the post and save the highly speculative theories on unknowable motivations for unthreaded posts. – Jo]

      141

      • #
        Jojodogfacedboy(A Collateral Damage Victim by Progressive Policies)

        [Please at #1 especially, we need more data less speculation and rumour. -Jo]

        110

        • #

          mwhite. The Seychelles used the Sinovax I think. The Chinese vax wasn’t that good. But Israel is using pfizer.

          If 100% of the Island were vaccinated hypothetically, then 100% of the hospitalized would be vaccinated too. Here the Australian modelling is showing that if 20% were unvaxed, they would still make up 65% of the hospitalized or the dead. The odds for one individual are better with the vax. But there are side effects and risks, and it depends on your health, how old you are, and there may be long term effects we won’t know for 20 years.

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          • #
            PeterS

            Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines: around 90 to 97%
            Effectiveness of natural immunity: around 98 to 99.9%

            It’s not a one way street. It can work both ways. So, taking a vaccine can increase ones chances of getting an illness or dying. In fact our Australian Government Database of Adverse Event Notifications proves vaccines shows COVID-19 vaccines do cause serious illnesses and deaths. Going back to your thought experiment, the number of deaths could in fact be higher than if no one got the vaccines. Given so many unknowns we won’t know the truth unless we did a live experiment with a control group over a long enough period of say 5 years.

            [Can we include references to quotes of efficacy, please. — Jo]

            340

          • #
            Great Aunt Janet

            If Dr Christine Parks is anywhere near correct – and her 8 minute speech in Michigan is astoundingly clear on the subject – the situation is worse than that. And I speak as an old lady who got vaccinated without a quibble.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DOOZpGA_VI&t=1s

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            • #
              PeterS

              In other words restrictions and demands to be vaccinated by companies for their workers is racist. Should see a lot of companies being sued in the US.

              211

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                A general note : the answer to any crisis is less freedoms, in the globalists minds.

                But the globalists are driven by a pagan sat anic belief system, so they will likely interleave the covid with the climate “crisis” and impose severe travel restrictions and will be happy when as many die as possible ( coz they are cruel like that….)

                Will we get drugs like HCQ or ivermectin allowed to be used? No. That would allow us to climb out of this current living hell

                The only option is drugs, vaccines dont work , and as that Oxford paper showed, vaccinated healthcare workers in Vietnam had 251x viral loads than previous and were spreading it to each other and patients.

                The other alternative to en masse stand up and tell the gumint to start using drugs.

                220

            • #
              Serp

              What I understand from this is that the vaccine developed for an old variant assists the new variant to infect the cells; she mentions a paper came out last week showing just that (at 5:55 in the video).

              Well we’ve warehouses full of the vaccine so it’ll continue to be dispersed throughout the population, waste not want not principle, assisting new variants to infect recipients of the inoculation.

              120

            • #
              Vicki Sanderson

              Yes Janet – what a speech! Important to note, as she says, that the original vaccines developed to attenuate symptoms,not to prevent transmission. And that these were developed for the original virus while evidence is suggesting that not only will it now not prevent new infection, but that it may render you more susceptible to the more virulent new variant. Hmmmm.

              140

          • #
            Konrad

            Given the reduction in hospitalization and mortality offered by the therapeutics, the claim that the vax offers the individual better odds cannot be substantiated. This is even before considering the future ADE issue.

            We also have good evidence that jabbing those with prior exposure increases the chance of adverse reaction by over 2X.

            Scientifically, mass use of non-sterilizing inoculations mid pandemic cannot be justified, not even on a personal basis. We know what this causes. We’ve known for 70 years. It is unethical to pursue this course of action.

            Jo, we’ve known for 70 years. There is no “middle ground”.

            561

            • #
              PeterS

              Good comment. It puts everything in the proper perspective. Any thinking person knows our governments here are acting disproportionately with their 80% vaccination targets, 0 or low case numbers and lockdowns. It really is time to call them for what they are; power mad little dictators.

              441

          • #
            Jojodogfacedboy(A Collateral Damage Victim by Progressive Policies)

            The media and politicians are pulling another fast one one the FDA approval is on a different vaccination for emergency use and NOT full approval of the current vaccine in use.

            https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/08/fully-approved-pfizer-vaccines-fda-approval-letter-raises-questions-just-extension-eua-dr-malone-joins-bannons-war-room-discuss-video/

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          • #
            Ian

            Jo I’m stating up-fromt that I think the emphasis on Ivermectin and Vitamin D and zinc and other anti-virals is at best premature and may well turn out to be less than many here expect/hope for. And given that Astrazeneca is only $4.20 per dose, till the end of the pandemic, the cost difference between it and the anti-virals is not significant

            That said it is good to see the Grafton study discussed here because the Australian does not mention it, although the Guardian did, so many Conservatives may not realise the Doherty modelling is questionable. I also went looking to see how the Brits were coping and admit it was in the hope of finding the experiment was going well. However to put it in a nutshell it ain’t. The NHS is close to being overwhelmed.

            It was also of significance to find a real-world study, including data on positive COVID-19 PCR test results between May and July 2021 among more than one million people who had received both doses of the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine, showed that protection after two shots of Pfizer decreased from 88 per cent at one month to 74 per cent at five to six months. For AstraZeneca, the fall was from 77 per cent to 67 per cent at four to five months.

            https://www.nhsconfed.org/articles/covid-19-latest-developments

            331

            • #
              Rupert Ashford

              And remember the likes of the Brits and the US are coming out of their summer which theoretically for respiratory disease should mean less severity. The coming NH Winter is going to be devastating and I expect it will show up the efficacy of the vaccines spectacularly.

              280

            • #
              Gerry, England

              AZ have are providing their vaccine at cost so your price is artificially low. Given the abuse they received for doing this, AZ will not be doing so in the future which does undermine your case against the use of ivermectin, HCQ, vitamins, zinc etc. From what I have seen, the case for ivermectin is over-whelming which requires western governments and health services to give an explanation of why they are ignoring it. Interestingly, it seems that the woke scum at The Guardian are labelling the use of ivermectin ‘Right Wing’. Mind you to them, anything that doesn’t agree with them is labelled ‘Right Wing’. The plan to introduce western wokeism in Afghanistan hasn’t worked out too well.

              50

          • #
            Hanrahan

            My age puts me way up in the “at risk” category, my health puts me down among the 40 somethings. ATM I’ll back my health because I have been “preparing the terrain” for years now. You don’t need to be psychic to know that one day your immune system will be tested. You need to have done the work before this happens.

            This year I have added quercetin and Zₙ to my regime, the rest I was already doing.

            280

            • #
              MichaelinBrisbane

              Hanrahan,
              I think I’m in a similar age and health bracket as you. Your post, above, has prompted me to order quercetin and zinc — quite easy to do on line — should be here within 10 days.
              There have been other posts about quercetin, though most of the money is on ivermectin but I couldn’t find where I could get it.
              In the meantime I’ve been using Viraleze (by the Oz company Starpharma). It’s not available in Oz and the TGA have slapped a fine on Starpharma of $93k for advertising it! I’ve got my supply from Lloyds Pharmacy in London c/- my son who lives there.

              150

          • #
            Vicki Sanderson

            I really appreciate your balance, Jo. But there are measures that can be taken to readjust the risk.

            My husband & I are in our early 70s, so we are in a very vulnerable group. On the other hand, we take daily Vit C, VitD3, Zinc & bioflavanoids. We also have an extremely healthy diet. We are farmers, so we get a GREAT deal of exercise! I would dearly like to have a supply of Ivermectin ready for any sign of early infection – but, there you are – we know the attitude to that. On the other hand, when the new antivirals appear – or maybe even the new range of conventional vaccines – then, we will accept these.

            Meantime, I think there is an acceptable level of risk, I believe. But this also means a lot of precautions – we won’t be seeing family & friends for many months, & will be only be able to visit towns summarily for supplies.

            180

          • #
            ianl

            Before I inject some hard critiques on your arm-waving straw men (and you and Evans are sitting mugs on a number of critical issues), I repeat the same question I asked you 12 months ago – the one you refused to acknowledge, let alone answer, while pretending to “science”.

            What is the Nova/Evans plan for exit ?

            No Daily Telegraph histrionics, just a practical, sensible, succinct plan. Hiding under the doona, waiting for the rest of the world to resolve the issue is no answer, even though Evans pushes it in his vanity columns.

            And here’s a PS to match your little sarc:

            stop using selected guesswork statistics (eg. Grafton) as data. They’re just guesses based on simple geometric progression, not data. Such guesswork has been wildly and constantly wrong world over, I suggest because it cannot measure either future viral mutations or the heterogeneity of natural (genetic) immune capabilities.

            142

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              The CV19 “models” are as scientific as the Global Warming and death by incineration due to human origin CO2 Models of the atmosphere: a complete joke.

              Can someone explain for me the difference between CV19 deaths in Brazil, 570,000, on the one hand, and Australia and Vietnam; roughly 1,000 and 9,000 respectively.

              What makes Brazil so vulnerable; was it the Manaus variant?

              There are so many factors that differ between countries that direct comparison of death rates is often not possible.

              “Models” that predict 25,000 Australian deaths are without scientific credibility.

              As a scientist I find the pushing of ideas in the areas of CAGW and CV19 under the guise of “models” to be very disturbing.

              130

          • #
            mwhite

            You may like to read this

            https://www.gjenvick.com/Influenza/TheRosenauExperiment-1918-1919.html

            An attempt to deliberately infect volunteers with the Spanish Flu.
            Terrain theory in action???????
            Why do some people catch cols/flu when other don’t (with or without a vaccine)

            Pfeiffer’s bacillus or Bacillus influenzae – Back in the day the “experts” believed the flu was caused by a bacterium.

            10

      • #
        ozman

        Here is some collateral damage that has occurred in Australia that is not being reported; instead it is actively suppressed. The TGA records 476 deaths occurred after vaccination but only 7 were related to the injections.

        80

    • #
      ColA

      Worse than that the Australian Authorities continue to ignore proven Ivermectin! And the rest of the 1st world seem to actively suppress any mention, even Sky channel seems not to mention it any more.
      In Australia

      The current approach to symptomatic COVID-19 individuals is largely to do nothing and simply observe until they either get better or get worse, perhaps much worse, and need to go to hospital.

      I think I would much rather take Ivermectin and improve my chances of not getting sick by 72% what about you??
      That is assuming you can find a Dr. to give you a script!!

      https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/public-health/2021/08/a-total-lack-of-therapeutic-perspective/
      https://c19ivermectin.com/
      https://bird-group.org/protocols/
      https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/

      370

    • #
      wert

      “95% of seriously ill patients are vaccinated. FULLY VACCINATED PEOPLE account for 85-90% of hospitalizations.The effectiveness of vaccines is decreasing”

      Not true in Scandinavia. The amount of vaxxed ill is comparatively low. Vaxxing has proven to be good for population level situation.

      1017

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        nonsense…places like iceland have very high vax rates

        Israel also has a 60+% double tap…2 shot vax…rate and now has 7300+ cases per day and at least 50% of patients are double tapped.

        170

        • #
          Ian

          “nonsense…places like iceland have very high vax rates’

          Iceland does have both very high vaccination rates and high number of Covid-19 cases. More positive cases are currently being recorded than during the first and second waves in the country last year. The seven-day average according to the Reuters tracker shows the number of cases averaging around 205 per 100,000 people

          This has lead to conspiracy theorists claiming this supports their criticisms of the vaccines’ efficacy – pointing to the level of vaccinated people who have tested positive to the virus.

          However, conspicuously absent from many of those theories are references to the severity of symptoms caused by the current wave of cases.

          According to the country’s Director General of the Ministry of Health Ásthildur Knútsdóttir, around 97% percent of those current infections include mild or no symptoms at all.

          Despite the rise in cases, there are currently only 18 hospitalised COVID cases nationwide. Demands may have increased on the country’s healthcare staff since the country opened up but the figures do not suggest the system is being overwhelmed.

          Of the 30 COVID-related deaths in the country, only one person has died in Iceland this year so far – back in May before this current wave.

          https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/covid-surges-in-one-of-world-s-most-vaccinated-nat

          44

    • #
      OldOzzie

      52% of Southern Nevada COVID-19 Deaths Were Fully Vaccinated? That’s What This Data Says

      Despite the media’s 24 hour-a-day, 7 day-a-week marathon in attempting to convince Americans of the safety and effectiveness of the COVID-19 vaccines, constant reports of breakthrough cases have gone a long way to undermining that effort. US Health Officials have been adamant that the effectiveness of the vaccines remains high, even though the CDC does not collect data for breakthrough cases, eliminating the possibility for national health officials from even weighing in on the matter. In the UK, at least 40% of new COVID hospitalizations have been of vaccinated people, and many jurisdictions make no distinction anymore between vaccinated and unvaccinated people when it comes to COVID-19 mandates.

      On August 11th, the first report after the revised methodology, SNHD reported a total of 37 breakthrough deaths. Just one week later, on August 19th, SNHD reported a total of 87 deaths, meaning that in a week, 50 of the COVID-19 related deaths for the SNHD were fully vaccinated, people. The majority of the people who have breakthrough cases reported since August 4th do not have preexisting conditions (1462 had them while 4847 did not). Of those that were vaccinated, 63% had received the Pfizer vaccine, 21% the Moderna, and 16% had received another vaccine. According to the data, only 5% of the total breakthrough cases needed hospitalization, and the Delta variant was identified as the cause of most of the cases. Initially, 73% of all breakthrough cases were people over the age of 65, but that number plummeted to 23%, with 44% of the new breakthrough cases between August 11th and August 19th involving 25-44-year-olds.

      During that same period of time (August 11th – August 19th), the SNHD’s total COVID Deaths (those of both vaccinated and unvaccinated), rose from 4936 to 5032, or 96 deaths. Of the total deaths, 50 of them were fully vaccinated, meaning 52% of the deaths were fully vaccinated patients.

      230

      • #
        OldOzzie

        Bloomberg – Delta Variant – The Vaccinated Are Worried and Scientists Don’t Have Answers

        Anecdotes tell us what the data can’t: Vaccinated people appear to be getting the coronavirus at a surprisingly high rate. But exactly how often isn’t clear, nor is it certain how likely they are to spread the virus to others.

        Though it is evident vaccination still provides powerful protection against the virus, there’s growing concern that vaccinated people may be more vulnerable to serious illness than previously thought.

        There’s a dearth of scientific studies with concrete answers, leaving public policy makers and corporate executives to formulate plans based on fragmented information. While some are renewing mask mandates or delaying office reopenings, others cite the lack of clarity to justify staying the course. It can all feel like a mess.

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        OldOzzie

        From UK government-funded BBC… “Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?”

        There are marked differences in your immune system after a natural infection with coronavirus and after vaccination.

        Which is better?

        Even asking the question bordered on heresy a year ago, when catching Covid for the first time could be deadly, especially for the elderly or people already in poor health.

        Now, we’re no longer starting with zero immunity as the overwhelming majority of people have either been vaccinated or have already caught the virus.

        It is now a serious question that has implications for whether children should ever be vaccinated. And whether we use the virus or booster shots to top up immunity in adults. Both have become contentious issues.

        “We could be digging ourselves into a hole, for a very long time, where we think we can only keep Covid away by boosting every year,” Prof Eleanor Riley, an immunologist from the University of Edinburgh, told me.

        Prof Adam Finn, a government vaccine adviser, said over-vaccinating people, when other parts of the world had none, was “a bit insane, it’s not just inequitable, it’s stupid”.

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      Anton

      Look, if everybody is fully vaccinated then fully vaccinated people are going to account for 100% of seriously ill cases – but there might be fewer of those than if nobody had been vaccinated. The efficacy of the vaccines is determined by comparing the proportion of seriously ill cases in the vaccinated and unvaccinated sectors of the population.

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      Global Cooling

      Covid-19 jab is obsolete. You need Covid-21-september jab for the ongoing strain. And then for the next. It will be rain of money to Big Pharma.

      When you end lock-downs the ongoing strain is waiting for you.

      Whether or not we have vaccines, a treatment is needed. It will not be ICU or hospital bed if you are there already for another reason. Home medication is coming. Remote appointments to the doctor.

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        Tilba Tilba

        Whether or not we have vaccines, a treatment is needed. It will not be ICU or hospital bed if you are there already for another reason. Home medication is coming. Remote appointments to the doctor.

        I certainly hope you’re right, comrade.

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    mwhite

    So how do you obtain the genome of the covid 19 corona virus

    https://odysee.com/@drsambailey:c/Once-Upon-A-Time-in-Wuhan-Odysee-Exclusive-Comp:2

    ???

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        Enthalpy

        You make it up – its a virtual virus, permitting our politicians and media to appear virtuous.

        Even the circle back girl Jen Psaki said the quiet part out loud and called it a plandemic.

        Without isolation and purification of the novel SARS CoV 2 virus and confirmation the iolated virus is infective how is it possible to be certain the genomic characteristics of this specific virus have been used to prime the PCR tests. To find only this virus specific genetic material in the nostrils of supposed patients

        Control of the PCR test – gives rise to the cases – allows the bureaucrats to take control, the politicians to act sincere about your wellbeing and health (while demonstrating they don’t care) – remove your rights and freedoms – weaponise the police and armed forces against the mostly law abiding public and continue to directly harm people by commanding everyone is injected with a proven harmful substance of unknown characteristics.

        It still continues to be the case (but this appears to be changing with the vaccines) that mostly the old and frail with comorbidities are the people dying, with no information coming out about the exact cause of death. Even so with the rapidly number of cases surviving and the few expected deaths the fatality rate of this “disease” appears to be equaling the fatality rate of the suddenly uncommon flu.

        No one has yet managed to explain to me how the COVID restrictions stopped the transmission of the FLU but had no effect on the transmission of COVID

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          except all of this is completely made up. Do you and the 11 up thumbers, seriously believe this?

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            MP

            Pretty much how I see it. The isolation, I have only found one doc from the CDC (you have seen it) that shows it to only cultured on monkey bits. You did post links to studies and I looked at one, but it was just that mob stating they had cultured virus available, same claim as the CDC. Then I lost the other links.
            The TGA deaths and Adverse events does not get any air time, this is the most important part of a trial to me, yet it is voluntary?

            The events are investigated by the snake oil manufacture, the most corrupt industry on the planet, and they find their snake oil is all good, that good in fact that there is no warranty required. Who looks after the injured, who pays for the drugs for them, why do they have no voice.
            The Vax lab, to the Drug dealer (government) to the pushers, no accountability at any level.

            Cases without the number of tests preformed means nothing, you wrote a lot up thread on cases up, down, but what is the ratio, why is this not the number broadcast.

            The Flu go, Rona stays question is very valid. I trended the two, lockdown and the flu went to zero over 6 months, Rona went to Flu numbers.
            What was the test before PCR?

            To many grey area’s in this debate to trust the Pharma companies, beside their track record for falsifying studies.

            This is not about a virus, this is top down control of every aspect of your life, but you know this.

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          Mark Allinson

          “No one has yet managed to explain to me how the COVID restrictions stopped the transmission of the FLU but had no effect on the transmission of COVID”

          There’s a meme going round on this topic.

          A: Flu disappeared because everyone was locked down, sanitising, masking, social distancing, and generally being careful.

          Q: But why then is Covid still a problem?

          A: Because people are continuing to ignore the government restrict …. !!!!

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    wert

    Just take the shot. The inevitable will happen eventually.

    Finland and Norway may well work as a model. No panic, little deaths, most population vaxxed already.

    Some people will get sick, but overall the situation is just fine. No lockdowns. Borders mostly open.

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      Single Malt

      Sounds a bit like smoking Wert. ‘I’ve been smoking 40 a day for three months. Look at me, I’m fine.’ Come back and report to us in a few years and see how ‘fine’ everyone in Finland and Norway are.

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      greggg

      And to hell with the collateral damage hey. F**k as many lives up as you want.

      Fact is naturally acquired immunity is so much better.

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    Travis T. Jones

    With the FDA approved Pfizer, it should be a crime to continue injecting people the unapproved experimental emergency moderna, AstraZeneca etc, let alone mandates.

    How inconvenient for the “vaccinated” that they can’t sue as big pharma was given indemnity by the politicians.

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    Wouldn’t the comments been saved ?

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    • #

      If you are asking about the previous comments to the draft of this post — they are still there two threads back. I answered a few more. Feel free to copy yours over if it is still relevant.

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    Anton

    I respectfully disagree. As with New Zealand, covid will inevitably come to WA eventually, and then all the time unable to have met loved ones elsewhere will be seen to have been wasted. People must get used to the fact that they will be living in a covid world and that life expectancy will be less. It’s always been about when you die, not if, and the complacent ​western assumption that you can make your will when you are 80 and then wind down gently will be seen to have been a single generation’s vanity.

    I regard it as of utmost importance that as soon as everybody has been jabbed who wants to be, life should return to normal and let’s see what the consequences for hospitals will be because frankly nobody knows.

    Here in the UK everybody above 40 who wants to be 2-jabbed (including me) has been, and the government is doing its utmost to persuade the young to get jabbed – for the sake of others, obviously. As it is now known that the mRNA in vaccines *can* be spliced into the genome of one’s own body cells via retrotransposons, even though there is no reverse transcriptase in the vaccine, who can blame the young for their reluctance? The future is ivermectin and Vitamin D, but it will take pig-headed governments a totalitarian year or two before they get it – not least because I am not going to accept boosters every 6 months and nor are many others.

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      WXcycles

      The future is ivermectin and Vitamin D, but it will take pig-headed governments a totalitarian year or two before they get it …

      It is outrageous that our politicians won’t even consider it yet. This is a foul political and media screw-up and deserves a lot more sunlight. Where the heck is this precious “Precautionary Principle” these days? Some corrupt conceited clowns at the UN poo-poo it, for totally irrational and a-scientific politicized reasons, so therefore it’s totally off the national political, media and medical agenda?

      It’s an outrage. We do need to get rid of the UN ASAP, they’re a danger to democracy, sanity, and our Human-Rights as well as National best-interests. They don’t give a damn about out rights, or interests, they have shown this numerous times, they would happily sacrifice us to the ideologies, and they’re also sly closet anti-Anglo racists, who want countries like ours ruined, or impaired as much as possible, by whatever fake lies and fake accusation they can cook-up and propagate. The UN is our enemy at all times and in all things, and they just keep demonstrating that to be true.

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      Vicki Sanderson

      Interesting that an “expert” interviewed this morning, when the interviewer asked about Ivermectin (he pronounced it incorrectly & screwed up his face) & “vitamins”, smiled and coyly conceded that the evidence was “inconclusive”.

      It is all shameless. But, like many, I see a “pivot” under way.

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    Rosco

    No virus does not mean freedom – look at Queensland where people were required to engage in the complete absurdity of masks outdoors and being chased from the beach until recently.

    I was an Environmental Health Officer for 25 years and I’ve never seen insanity like this.

    Australia was until recently an international joke – now we’re viewed as a dictatorship and they’re right.

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      PeterS

      I agree. Any any thought of hard lockdowns is utter insanity given the current circumstances.

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        Sydney — slow late minimal postcode lockdown meant spreading infection and they end up at a long harsh lockdown with 0.15% of the population infected but hospitals already on the edge. It was predictable. People who like lockdowns would prefer the Sydney approach ensuring a great loss of freedom and economic damage. I weep for Sydney.

        Brisbane — fast short hard lockdowns that end quickly and achieve a state of freedom. The mistake AnnaP made in QLD was in letting through so many infected Sydneysiders. She appears to have learnt and is tightening the border. We hope for Queenslanders sake that they can keep the virus out longer and avoid many more lockdowns.

        Lockdown is not a binary yes no thing. It is a spectrum of responses.

        People who try to see the world through binary lenses will continue to be surprised by reality.

        Rosco — Australia has had one fiftyth as many deaths per capita as the UK and US. Far from being a laughing stock we have lived in many parts of Australia like the virus does not exist.

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          Bright Red

          Victoria, fast sharp lockdown. How’s that working out? Cases going up. NZ fast sharp lockdown. How’s that working out for them, record new cases. Lockdowns are not a long term or even short term solution.

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          PeterPetrum

          Not sure you are correct Jo. Time will tell, but I think Delta will win out in the end and we will have to accept whatever it brings.

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          Erny72

          “…we have lived in many parts of Australia like the virus does not exist…”
          Until you try to cross a border.

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            And West Australians knew that when they voted 53 seats for the ALP against 6 to all the rest that wanted to open the border.

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              MP

              Last I checked, Vic and NSW were Australians.

              You do play the game well though.

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              Mark Allinson

              A quotation from Tacitus:

              “The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.”

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              Erny72

              Thanks for that clarification Jo, I had been labouring under the misapprehension that you voted 53 seats for the ALP against 6 to the rest because the Liberal opposition ran an a bewildering platform of dismantling your viable primary industries and replacing them with a tax payer funded economy based on whirlygigs, mirrors and unicorn farts.

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          Tilba Tilba

          I agree Jo – short sharp lockdowns at the state-city level have been the best strategy, and Australia is neither an international joke nor a dictatorship – both absurd assessments.

          The case rates and the hospitalisation-death rates have been extremely low for 18 months. The arrival of the Delta Variant, particularly its infectiousness among younger people, has made the public health challenge far harder. Thankfully it seems no more lethal, and no more liable to bypass vaccination.

          Queensland has opened up today, and that is good news, but they are keeping the hard border. They do have an issue with the Tween where many thousands of people live within 5-10 km of the border.

          I don’t know where Sydney and Melbourne (and possibly Canberra) go if the case numbers don’t decline … but having a lesser lockdown would not seem the best way to go. But can lockdowns be sustained until some high percentage is fully vaccinated?

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      Australia has normally had a Pretty good press in the UK but I think the dictatorial use of police powers has shocked many of us, especially bearing in mind the small numbers involved. Outdoor masks? Being chased from the beaches? What an absurdity

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        PeterS

        Then we have some who argue for even harsher lockdowns. Utter insanity, and in fact can be legitimately argued it’s unlawful and criminal.

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        el gordo

        The Daily Mail has never let a chance go by to put in the boot, this has been happening for years, long before Covid reared its ugly head.

        Most importantly, at least half of the Western Australian electorate wanted to quit the Commonwealth before Covid. I cannot see Canberra forcing WA to open their borders to the other States and Territories, let alone international travel.

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          PeterS

          WAxit has being an ongoing issue for decades. While the Australian Constitution makes provision for an increase in the number of states in the federation (section 121), it does not contemplate existing states seceding from its ‘indissoluble union.’ Commentators suggest two potential avenues, both legally contested. The first is to amend the Constitution in accordance with section 128 to provide for secession. But history tells us that proposals for Constitutional change rarely succeed. The second option would be for a state to secede unilaterally. ‘This would entail an Australian state passing an Act of its own parliament declaring its withdrawal from the federation and asserting its status as a fully sovereign nation. Such an action is regarded by many legal scholars as unlawful.’
          https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/FlagPost/2017/September/WA_state_of_secession

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          Scott Morrison will only force the WA border open if he wants to lose every Liberal seat in WA and infect the mines and damage production cutting GST revenue. I can’t see that happening.

          Though as more West Australians get vaxxed, there may well come a time when they believe they are protected from the virus and sentiment will want the border open. West Australian do like Eastern Staters and like to travel there. We just don’t want Chineses Bioweapons coming in yet. It’s all blandly sensible and obvious.

          There will be huge pressure on McGowan to open up from big business like Qantas and possibly also from politicians who don’t want WA to shine as an example of how said pollie failed dismally.

          Even S&P was threatening the WA credit rating if it did not vax enough. Where the heck is that coming from?

          And then — humility — the virus could leak in any day here. We may or may not be able to put it back in its box.

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            Zigmaster

            When you have liberals in WA who espouse climate change nonsense to the left of the Greens I think they are not worth saving.

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            Tilba Tilba

            There will be huge pressure on McGowan to open up from big business like Qantas and possibly also from politicians who don’t want WA to shine as an example of how said pollie failed dismally.

            Qantas has put in place plans to fly its non-stop to Heathrow, Frankfurt, etc from Darwin, n case Perth lags too far behind on the “re-opening” agenda.

            Personally, I don’t see the point – I can fly Melbourne to Dubai, then Dubai to Europe – it’s still two sectors, but of more amenable lengths (14 hrs / 7 hrs).

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            Erny72

            “…We just don’t want Chinese Bioweapons coming in yet. It’s all blandly sensible and obvious…”

            Just so I can wrap my head around the blandly sensible, obvious plan, when do you propose re-opening the border? We seem to agree that the emergency vaccines aren’t a real practical solution, so should the border remain closed until:
            1. The big club approves Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine + Zinc treatment?
            2. Until the world achieves ‘zero Covid’? Or
            3. Until disruptive testing and quarantine routines can be administered by the ineptocracy so well as to demonstrate a 0% risk of some dirty outsider bringing a strain of SARS2-Cov-19 across the border?

            In case 1 this means waiting until ‘the big club’, its lobbyists and fear merchants lose their influence over policy, that could be some wait.

            In cases 2 and 3 that is to say, ‘never’.

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            Tilba Tilba

            And then — humility — the virus could leak in any day here. We may or may not be able to put it back in its box.

            Speak of the devil – case detected in WA … a truckie from NSW.

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            • #

              .. both of who were vaccinated and negative tested in Port Augusta.

              Luckily (possibly) with no lockdown needed as they have kept to themselves and done the right thing.

              We hope they didn’t shed and infect anyone at those remote roadhouses.

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      WXcycles

      Rosco, Queensland is a big place, most of it’s area has not had to wear a mask yet. I’ve had to wear a mask over one 14-day period only, and only when I went into shops or buildings with others, i.e. I wore it for maybe 1 hour all up. This was not onerous, just a mild inconvenience for the good of me and others. literally no one I encountered was upset about it, even a little bit.

      Let’s not hype it, the police did next to nothing and the shops were not allowed to turf you out if you did not have a mask. In fact the police were giving masks out to those that did not have one, rather than fining them.

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      Vicki Sanderson

      Yep. Info coming from OS is that they completely shocked at what is happening in Australia.

      Not only do we have a reputation previously as being a sceptical lot, but we have had the benefit of OS experience with vaccines etc.

      All gone….

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        Pauly

        I’m living in Japan. Probably the most safety conscious and risk averse country on the planet.
        – Japanese people, who as a rule never mention controversial topics in conversation, tell me as soon as they know I’m an Aussie that the government has gone insane and is locking down the country if there is like one case of covid.
        – Americans are telling me they can’t believe how aggressive and rude Aussie cops are.
        – A German has told me what he’s seen reminds him of his time living in East Berlin.
        – Aussie ex-pats when involved in these types of conversations are shaking their heads and offering no defence of the various Aussie governments.
        As far as non-Aussies are concerned Australia is treated as one complete entity. Trying to say, “But that was Victoria, [or NSW or WA whatever] makes no difference to them. As far as they’re concerned it’s all “Australia”.

        Australia’s international reputation has been destroyed. I’m not sure what the government projects as how long it will the international tourism business to recover is, but whatever time frame the government says double it and add another 5 years.

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          Pauly, interesting to hear your experience.

          I suspect the last thing big globalists, Big Pharma or President Xi wants is the actual truth of the extraordinary success of AUst and NZ to get out.

          Imagine finding out that thousands died unnecessarily in the US and UK, and it all could have been stopped so easily just by stopping the China flights earlier, and that it could be done without a single vax delivered.

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            Pauly

            The truth is out there. People know it was a bio weapon that got out of the Wuhan Lab. Peopke know closing the borders sooner and for longer, especially to China, would have prevented a lot of Covid. Peopke know President Xi sent Chinese tourists all around the globe for Chinese New Year when he knew the extent of the virus, It’s being ignored in the media for a variety of reasons.

            However for Australia this is going to be like Rudd’s mining tax disaster. Australians just aren’t going to see the opportunities that have been closed to them. My wife works at an Imperial University here, one that has more Nobel Prize winners currently working there than living Australian Nobel Prize recipients, and all the research/exchange programs with Australian universities are being left to die on the vine with no will to renew, existing partnerships let alone make new agreements. Australia has made itself a place that’s too difficult and too unreliable to do business with.

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              Tilba Tilba

              … all the research/exchange programs with Australian universities are being left to die on the vine with no will to renew, existing partnerships let alone make new agreements. Australia has made itself a place that’s too difficult and too unreliable to do business with.

              I don’t see the connection between this and Australia’s Covid-19 responses – or the fact that the police went over-the-top at last weekend’s protests. Many Australians think the response was excessive as well.

              And Japan can’t be too smug – they had 24,300 new cases yesterday.

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                Pauly

                Since you are not aware why, I’ll explain.
                1) Universities need signed agreements to co-operate. Things like rights to patents, who funds what, certification of course credits, etc. etc. etc. need to be understood and agreed to. These agreements are not open ended and get renewed every 3 to 5 years.
                2) The agreements between universities are signed at the highest levels. Which require in person attendance.
                3) Research is done in person in labs by researchers. The analysis may be able to be done by telework, but setting up and conducting experiments needs to be done in person.

                So when a country makes getting in and out somewhere between extremely difficult and next to impossible, then
                – the heads of agreement can’t be signed.
                – exchange of personnel particularly researchers becomes too hard.
                – the foreign university staff have heard the stories of researchers/students getting trapped in Australia and have no interest in suffering the same fate.

                Now there’s always going to be universities that will want to co-operate with Aussie universities, but instead of getting deals with the top universities with the top researchers Australian universities will be forced to deal with much lower ranked universities than before Covid.

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        Tilba Tilba

        What is “all gone”? As WXcycles says, it’s all way over-hyped, and sadly a few on here are buying into it, and contributing to the hyping.

        People who know Australia well are perfectly aware how our 18-month strategy has worked. Our reputation among those who matter is fine – everybody else thinks kangaroos hop down Bourke Street and every creature will kill you – to the extent that they think about us at all.

        And BTW, I expect there are a lot of Australians who agree that those flagrantly breaching the restrictions should get the treatment. It’s not an issue of “free-dumb” and civil rights – it’s an issue of tackling a significant public health issue.

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          Pauly

          Our reputation among those who matter is fine – everybody else thinks kangaroos hop down Bourke Street and every creature will kill you – to the extent that they think about us at all

          Those uneducated yoiks who you say think that kangaroos hop down Bourke st
          1) In my industry they’re called paying customers.
          2) Having lived in abroad for 8 1/2 years and counting I’ve never met anyone who believes that. Plenty of people make jokes about it. So your stereotypes about ignorant foreigner chappies not being educated enough about Australia is a good 30 years past its use by date.

          As for “the people that matter” if it’s in an industry where international travel is required, then they’re not coming to Oz while the threat of harsh quarantines and lockdowns happening if someone sneezes exists.

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    Harves

    There are three million Australians older than 70. Even if we vaccinate 95% of them, and even if the Pfizer vaccine protects 96% of that group, there are still potentially a lot of dead bodies in that age group in the wake of the virus. (And the AZ vaccine only stops 92% of deaths.)

    Who’d have thought that people over the age of 70 die. In fact, I think it’s close to 100,000 people over 70 die in Australia every year. But as long as we can stop them dying of one specific illness then it’s worth millions living under house arrest. Yeah, right.

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      Bright Red

      This debate needs some perspective. 150,000 people dying in Aus every year and a predicted 30,000 deaths from Covid if we open up as promised simply means given the age profile of those that die from Covid and that most of the 30,000 would be amongst the 100,000 or so old people that opening up would shorten the average life expectancy by 3-4 months for the over 70’s.
      It seems we are paying a huge toll to avoid shortening the average life expectancy by a few months.
      Which is preferable a life of freedom to make your own choices with little debt or a life of lockdowns, no travel, lower living standards and mandated experimental jabs. Just to keep the life expectancy figure of around 82years from becoming a few months shorter.

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        Harves

        Yep. We are destroying the lives of families and young people so that a few septuagenarians and octogenarians can ‘exist’ in isolation for a few more months. You can’t actually call it living when they are unable to spend their short remaining time with friends and families.

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        Fran

        BC Canada median age of “Covid” death = 84.Provincial life expectancy = 82. And since Monday we have to wear masks indoor because 111 people were admitted to hospital last week.

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      Epicurious

      I am in my mid seventies, living in tropical QLD, and do not want our country locked up (it is up and not down) to protect me from a ‘disease’ mitigated by remedies such as Ivermectin et vitamins or HCQ et vitamins. I am fortunately in good health so am prepared to take the ‘risk’ to enable the rest to get on with their lives. If anything the repressions affecting so many young people down south are playing on my psych and thus likely affecting my longevity.

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    Richard

    The idea of Long COVID sounds like such a scam to me.

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    • #

      yeah someone is making heaps of money from it.

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      Forrest Gardener

      Could well be a scam but my son’s partner in London experienced strange skin rashes, headaches and lethargy for months after recovering from the virus.

      My take is that for all sorts of diseases and conditions some people really do suffer side effects long after the original malady is gone.

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      • #

        I sometimes read #longcovid and some of the stories there are very similar to what your son’s partner is reporting. Not something you’d wish on anyone.

        There are also some with a longvax reaction.

        But always to judge actual risks we need data and sadly I fear that no one is collecting the data in the first place.

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      M Allinson

      I don’t think people realise that long term damage from influenza is common – but why don’t we ever hear of “long flu.”

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        David Ashton

        I caught Hong Kong flu boxing day 1969 aged 23, I was seriously ill for 4 weeks, very unwell for ~12 weeks and weakened for over six months. I caught Covid in 2020 just before my 74th birthday, two symptoms: persistent high temperature and dreadful cough, I run everyday(averaging about 7 miles/day) I was running again 14 days after first Covid symptoms. I was a fit young man in 1969 playing amateur football at a decent level, I was 6ft tall 12 stone in weight, my weight dropped to 10½ stone and it was August 1970 before I was fit enough to make the 1st XI. Long Covid is not unique nor particularly serious, but disgracefully it is being exaggerated and used to scare young people into getting the vaccine. When for people under 30 with no serious health conditions they would be better catching the disease than taking the vaccine. The high number of cases in the UK are often misrepresented, 1½ million tests a day are being carried out and most of those who test positive have no symptoms, and most of the others have mild symptoms.

        Have I been vaccinated? Yes, but only so I could obtain my Covid vaccination certificate for travel to the EU where all of our family live.

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          Lucky

          Are you out yet?

          Vaccine Passport, Choose-
          either locked in Australia
          or, get vaccinated so can leave in a body bag.

          [On the lines of the false dichotomies we get all the time]

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          Fran

          My daughter was unable to return to Uni full time for 2 years after the flu – it was a long very gradual recovery.

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        Fran

        20-some years ago my daughter was unable to go back to Uni full time for 2 years after the flu.

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      Anton

      I’ve got it. No scam. Plenty of people have had it worse but few have had it longer.

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      Vicki Sanderson

      No Richard, can’t agree with that.

      My mum contracted Ross River Fever when she was alive many years ago. Thereafter she suffered a post viral syndrome that caused her to have extreme muscle weakness, and a host of other symptoms. She was an avid gardener (which she could no longer do) & not one to succumb to imagined symptoms.

      Sufferers from these sort of syndromes following various viruses will tell you that it is no joke, and not imagined.

      There is now quite a bit of research on the pathology.

      BTW Dr. Robert Malone himself suffers the “brain fog” symptomatic Long Term Covid (& no jokes, please – it is an unpleasant syndrome).

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    PeterS

    Hard lockdowns at this stage would be criminal and destroy our economy. We had enough.

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      el gordo

      The Feds can stop international travel, so I support that option and it ain’t criminal.

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        PeterS

        The horse has already bolted in case you haven’t noticed. Besides, hard lockdowns of our international borders, apart form being impossible, can’t last for long. Stop living in a dream world and come to reality.

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          el gordo

          Reality is what we make it, they will avoid opening up our international borders to all and sundry tourists until a vaccine passport system is in place.

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            Pauly

            And then they’ll wonder why when the door is opened again that no one is coming through.

            They’re not just closing the border to tourists. They’re closing it to ex-pats, permanent resident visa holders. Whilst the border may not technically be closed to us ex-pats living abroad it is for almost all effective purposes closed.

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            • #

              Pauly and I have great sympathy for Australians who can’t come home. I wish we had been more dedicated to warn people before Delta spread and made it easier for them to get home sooner.

              I think it’s crazy that we haven’t built tents in the desert in in the cooler half of the year and offered that as an option for desperate people to quarantine more cheaply. I think a lot of people would settle for a two star tent or a mining donga if they had the choice.

              Likewise, would you accept a cheap seat on a packed plane even if you had to wear a hazmat suit and a horrible full respirator mask for the flight? I’m not saying that would be nice and some people certainly wouldn’t cope, but some would, and it would free up the other rare seats on return flights.

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                Pauly

                My son is 10 months old. He’s never seen his family. I’m not sure a hazmat suit on a 10 hour flight would work for him.

                The biggest complaint about the quarantine hotels amongst ex-pats is that you’re forced to pay 5 star rates for less than 2 star standards. That and the quarantine restrictions in the hotels are almost entirely safety theater, not actual safety.

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  • #

    Our hospitals in the UK were never overwhelmed by covid.

    Every winter they are overwhelmed however as people die from flu or the cold and corridors are pressed into service. One problem is that modern thinking believes far fewer beds are needed due to changes in the management of patients so when they are needed they are just not available.

    The virus struck us in the winter and a number of big mistakes were made which Australia can avoid.

    People were sent from hospitals into care homes without testing, hospitals themselves became considerable vectors of covid, people were confined to their homes meaning the virus spread internally and there you have the three biggest causes of death.

    Avoid those things, take vitamin d, lose weight stay healthy avoid too many contacts.

    Our own death toll could have been reduced By many tens of thousands had we known this at the start.

    Bear in mind the average age of death is 82 , two years older than average, most with serious existing illnesses, that many people died with covid but not of covid but will be treated as a death because of covid.

    Despite all this, the number of people dying in 2020 were less than in every year prior to 2009
    As for anti virals, presumably effective ones will be approved and the death toll can be reduced further, combined with vaccines which provide a good deal of protection from serious illness

    They will not stop you spreading it though, making vaccine passports more a measure of state control rather than a medical necessity

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      el gordo

      Going back a little further.

      ‘How does 2020 compare with previous years? Provisional figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show 608 002 registered deaths in England and Wales in 2020. This was the second highest number of deaths in a year since 1838.

      ‘The most deaths in the past 183 years occurred in 1918—a year also notable for a pandemic. These figures exclude deaths not registered in England and Wales, which means the huge loss of military lives in the two world wars (about 888 000 over the four years of the first world war and 384 000 over the six years of the second world war are largely excluded.’ (BMJ.com)

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        PeterS

        Our own figures show that in previous years several thousands died each year from respiratory diseases before COVID-19 came to the scene. We didn’t have lock downs back then. Go figure. I actually wouldn’t mind if they kept the lockdowns on permanently. It might serve as an example to the world how not to do things. Our economy will be smashed anyway thanks to the CAGW scam so we might as well accelerate it to get it over and done with.

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        No. The ONS do not adjust for population or demographics.

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          But we know excess deaths in some regions was awful and exactly coincide with waves of virus, while in others deaths were lower due to less influenza. It’s possible to average out those two and make it look like hospitals were never overwhelmed, and there was no extra deaths but better resolution studies tell a different story. And many docs and nurses say they lived through the most grueling stressful time they’ve ever worked.

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            tonyb

            Jo

            That’s the shortcomings of averages. Average out the world temperature and that ignores the substantial parts that are cooling. Ditto with sea level rise. Averages are a very blunt tool at a time when the nuances are important

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        Fran

        Ever heard of population and age adjustements to mortality data?

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      Sambar

      Tonyb,I am old enough to remember when pneumonia was called “the old peoples friend” i.e. when a body was burdened by other diseases / conditions and life was at best was quite miserable, along came the way out. One has to also bear in mind that no one dies of “old age” this is not an allowable description on any death certificate, everyone dies of an identifiable cause such as heart disease, cancer etc. Covid, pneumonia and such is like a ride in a hearse, it probably isn’t the reason you died, its just the mode of transport to your resting place.

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      WXcycles

      Our hospitals in the UK were never overwhelmed by covid.

      This is reprehensible utter garbage Tonyb, a lie, and is also totally disrespectful to the people that died and the families that lost members.

      I daily watched and logged the mortality in UK hospitals spiral to well over 10% of cases die, as the ICUs were gradually overrun, and could no longer expand and supply sufficient services to get people through the disease.

      IIRC the mortality rose from the initial ~1% to ~14% of all COVID19 hospital cases died in the UK. UK hospital ICUs were DEFINITELY overrun, and ran out of capacity to save people’s lives as a result.

      Your false remarks are quite disgusting to me.

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        WXcycles

        Here’s what really occurred in UK ICUs, they were totally overrun with dying people.

        UK mortality figures from 22nd May, 2020:

        https://i.ibb.co/Yhf2Yt9/UK-ICUs-overrun-22nd-May-2020.png
        https://i.ibb.co/wSQ07Pt/22nd-May-2020-figures.png

        Re-writing history aside, UK ICUs were clearly overrun with dying people which could not be helped almost at all by mid-May 2020. The UK was actually even worse than Italy or Spain at that point, and on par with the appalling collapses in France and Belgium.

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          I think people’s opinions would be quite different if they had close friends working with Covid patients. In the medical world there is real fear, people quitting, people talking of quitting — most have have their line in the sand, the point where they will leave. Most don’t want to bring the virus home to husbands or wives or parents that are high risk. I’ve had those conversations with people working in ICU with Covid patients. Just this week I was talking to someone who is going to move into a separate part of the house for fear of infecting her family now that Covid has returned to her ward.

          It is utterly unrealistic to expect any industry to give so much for so long.

          More than 3,600 US health workers died in COVID’s 1st year

          Understandably there are extremely passionate opinions among docs and nurses on the front line, and also understandably they are scathing about opinions of some who haven’t taken the time to learn the basic scientific info yet pronounce things with certainty.

          I know many on this site are similarly scathing about ignorant uninformed people who voice simplistic assertions on energy grids and electricity.

          There is a lot of junk information and cherry picked opinions out there…

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            Simon B

            Don’t get me wrong here, but there are many people here who aren’t going to go out into the street at a designated time and clap a health worker who understand the role they play and the immense stress they’re under.
            My ex was a theatre nurse during the initial HIV period and we had many a tense time waiting for results after a needle stick incident.
            I have mates who have been general physicians in New Guinea, South Pacific, Africa in ongoing civil war or disease ridden areas operating under immense pressure of possible infection, stray IED’s or executions if they didn’t treat a comrade to the satisfaction of the AK47 carrier. I have had friends and family who have worked in Northern border patrol, logistics for aid in Timor, Darfur and Central America who don’t know what the reaction of the militia in truck stopping them will be.
            All those people chose to go into those situations, mostly with their eyes open, to make a difference.
            I understand your comment of the real fear of those on the covid medical front line and their talk of quitting and without pre-supposing their career intentions, they were, on the whole, not cut out for a ‘war zone’ response. They were thrust into this, as the confronting nature of the virus came to them, rather than them volunteer – and be trained – to go to the ‘front’.
            Unfortunately our civilian ‘leaders’ are in the same situation, unsuited for their role, however they will not admit how out of their depth they are and unlike those medical practitioners quitting because they dont believe they can provide the care required, our politicians have reverted to type; double down on draconian measures as their actions prove ineffective, rather than step aside and allow a fresh approach which understands that continuing to use the same ineffective method continues to bring the same ineffective result.
            Sorry to waffle, but a mate said the other day, ‘this covid is serious, but definitely survivable, I operated on a New Guinean in rudimentary conditions with a 20% chance of survival, while his gun toting family stood over me. All the world wide figures I’ve seen of covid show an unvaccinated survivability rate of 99.5%, we’ll get thru.’
            Not everyone is cut out for the fight to come to them.

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            • #

              It understandable that people want to think this is “99.5% survivable”. I know it makes them feel better.
              But it isn’t true for people older than 60 so I’ll just keep talking about data and odds.

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                Simon B

                Happy for that. All for the data. It is logical to protect the over 60’s. That is one of the few things the state demigods have achieved. The 20% death rate in that age group is exactly why they need to be protected and i don’t know anyone with a modicum of common sense who doesn’t see that as logical.
                The issue for hitting the magical vaccine target will naturally be problematic when the 20-39 age group which constitutes a quarter of all cases in Australia but has a death rate of 0.06%.
                Are that age group just believing in that age groups typical belief of being bullet proof, or does the data improve their odds? (why has the Federal Government said 70%, but the state overlords say 80%? Aren’t they all getting the same data?)
                Doesn’t the data tell decision makers to target isolation to the most at risk and allow the healthy to thrive? Surely without political and trashmedia interference, over the counter anti virals would have been tried by GP’s for low risk patients?
                Anyway, this would be the first medical issue in history cured by ‘political science’!

                You’re right though 99.5% might make my friend happy as his 4 decades of front line service are effectively over and he’s content to paint, if not co-opted, but I wasn’t going to correct him and say; actually the figures from your most trusted source say the current worldwide death rate is 2.08%.

                https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
                https://www.health.gov.au/resources/current-covid-19-cases-in-hospitals-and-intensive-care-units-icus
                https://www.health.gov.au/resources/covid-19-cases-by-age-group-and-sex
                Please advise me if I shouldn’t be trusting these sources.

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            Kalm Keith

            Hi Jo,

            could I comment on one small aspect of this situation.

            In all industrial occupational health and safety situations it would be normal practice to go for optimisation of worker health.

            From what little we hear that doesn’t seem to be the case with Australia’s medical staff.

            We hear stories of doctors and nurses wearing full CV19 exclusion rig for a full shift of 8 or 12 hours which puts them under enormous overload.

            Common sense would suggest that a shift in full gear should be no longer than say 6 hours or whatever is seen as survivable.

            Perhaps medical staff have a right to be treated sensibly by their employers.

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              The numbers are impossible. The hospital system already costs a fortune, and is optimized to cope (barely) with peak winter loads with no covid.
              The extra burden of Covid pushes all normal work practices and staffing levels into fantasy land very quickly. In surges some staff are sick or isolating, so the rest are pushed beyond. They wear diapers, hazmats and gaffa tape their masks to their faces til their skin is rubbed raw.

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                Simon B

                True, however there are a number of retired doctors and nurses on the East Coast who have ‘reactivated’ if and when required who have not been contacted. Some of them may fall into the category of shift relief, which Keith alludes to.
                There are dozens of practitioners doing normal GP work who can be co-opted for certain roles, if the system in the major cities becomes overrun. There are Private Hospitals in NSW which can be used for front line response, there are medical personnel from other states who can be co opted as 4 states have a total of 3 hospitalisations between them.
                If this is the beachhead, then all available personnel need to be deployed, don’t they? The cost has already been astronomical, but hasn’t been effectively used.
                The retired physician who operated in PNG said in his conversation, ‘I guess I’ll know it’s completely out of control when they call me, not just to assist, but to do house calls’.

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                Kalm Keith

                Hi Jo,

                My main consideration was for the hospital staff.
                The Government is placing them under an illegal OH&S burden that should be fixed.
                It makes you wonder when the government knows its responsibility in the matter but just ignores it.

                Are bureaucrats trying to take advantage of the situation to get greater media publicity for the terrible CV19 crisis.

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                Kalm Keith

                Thanks Simon, it seems obvious the government must bring in the extra staff to bring the burden down to acceptable levels.

                Perhaps we could reconvene our parliaments, issue nappies to all our members and tell them to stay there until they have come up with a sensible approach to staffing public facilities in this CV19 situation.

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          tonyb

          WXcycles

          As someone who was actually here and who has relatives in the NHS, of course the hospitals were extremely busy and under enormous pressure. The point of the various lockdowns was to prevent them being ‘overwhelmed’. Perhaps there is a different use of the words in Oz and Britain? Here is the Cambridge University definition

          “If water overwhelms a place, it covers it suddenly and completely.”

          That didn’t happen.

          8 Nightingale hospitals were built with some 9000 extra beds, the vast majority of which were never used. If our hospitals were overwhelmed it would have been a failure of, and defeat the point of, Lockdowns

          Other types of hospital treatment were cancelled and people didn’t want to go into hospitals as they were significant sources of covid infection

          Please read the whole of my original post for context. Flu epidemics regularly cause people to be placed in corridors or held in waiting ambulances.

          http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/6/newsid_2477000/2477943.stm

          Also the govt put out a call for firms to build ICU respirators. There was a huge response but most were never needed

          Several lessons that hopefully will be learnt are far better infection control and more beds, of which a proportion need to be ICU’s. Beds have not kept up with the increase in population. It would help if less of the population were overweight but age and co morbidities were a big factor in our death rate and unfortunately you can do nothing about ageing.

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        MP

        What is the under lying cause of the “overwhelming”
        In the UK they have been shutting down hospitals and beds even though the population has been increasing. https://www.statista.com/statistics/473264/number-of-hospital-beds-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/
        https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/january2021
        It appears overwhelming of the system occurs in the winter every year, https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/28/hospitals-dangerously-full-during-winter-crisis-says-thinktank.

        The UK Govs declared this, https://web.archive.org/web/20200325193923/https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid
        From the link.
        Status of COVID-19
        As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious diseases (HCID) in the UK.

        The UK government all-cause mortality for 12 months to January 2021 shows it is an average year. This is deaths per 100,000 of population. Where are the deaths from the world’s worst most contagious most lethal virus?
        https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsintheukfrom1990to2020

        They tell you one thing and show you another.

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          Anton

          2020 was *not&* an average year. Here is a graph of total deaths (ie regardless of cause) per week over the last 5 years:

          https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-florence-nightingales-daigrams-for-deaths/

          What, if not covid then lockdown, is responsible for the enormous rise in weeks 13-15 of 2020 then the equally huge fall in weeks 17-21?

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          • #
            MP

            That’s data from honest government and media sources.
            Yours is based on mention of COVID 19, meaningless word play. “Of the registered deaths in England and Wales, 571 mentioned COVID-19, 5.5% of all deaths.
            If you actually look at the ONS it even looks like they detuned the deaths from 2004 to 2019, 2020 compared to prior to 2004 – 2009 was below average even with an increasing population. Like temperature, get that average down, Same script different villain, number play by government, see it every day.

            The point is there was no overwhelming of the hospital system out of normal seasonal cycles and what was created by the NHS by reducing beds.

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              MP

              2009 should be 1990.

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              Anton

              I made no mention of which deaths were assigned (correctly or otherwise) to covid, and no mention of consequences for hospitals. The figure simply plots the total number of deaths recorded each week for the last few years on a cyclic plot enabling year by year comparison, showing an enormous spike in spring 2020. I asked what, if not covid followed by lockdown, is responsible for the enormous rise in weeks 13-15 of 2020 then the equally huge fall in weeks 17-21? your response ignores my question and misrepresents the data.

              Kindly answer my question or explain why the mortality statistics are wrong.

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          WXcycles

          Is this a fake retort to the fact that mortality in the UK of about 0.5% die during the initial COVID19 infection, rose to about 16% died a few months in?

          Sorry, you’re post is irrelevant, it misses and seeks to ignore the point that the hospitals were overwhelmed (which is what this discussion is about) and when they were overwhelmed, the UK mortality rose from about 0.5% per known case, to ~16% deaths within the UK medical system near the initial peak.

          i.e. mortality varied by about 32 to 33 times the observed initial rate, due to the disruption of the hospital ICU services by the large rise in serious cases.

          Just copying and pasting a bunch of links which are not about that does not change any of the implications of Delta getting out of control and what that would do to mortality.

          i.e. even the initial strain became about 32 times more deadly, so what would a more lethal out of control Delta strain do?

          Well, we have already seen it, more than twice as many people died in India, and Canada says Delta is ~2.3 times more lethal (in Jo’s post).

          Measures to control transmission resulted in a much lower influenza season though, and more people got a flu shot, many became healthier, and more people took vit-D3.

          Provisional Jan 2020 to May 2021 data are here:

          Deaths due to respiratory disease were 16.2% lower than historical averages. Decreases were recorded in both chronic and acute respiratory diseases.

          Influenza and pneumonia deaths were 36.0% lower than the historical average with this result heavily influenced by a particularly mild flu season.

          https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/jan-dec-2020

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            MP

            Did you even look at the links, hospital capacity trend, look into the seasonal overwhelming of hospitals in the UK.

            “Sorry, you’re post is irrelevant, it misses and seeks to ignore the point that the hospitals were overwhelmed (which is what this discussion is about) and when they were overwhelmed, the UK mortality rose from about 0.5% per known case, to ~16% deaths within the UK medical system near the initial peak.”

            So to validate your point you use Aus ABS stats, because all my stuff was UK and all your stuff is AU.

            You do not have less people die in a pandemic. India was media hype, its always worse somewhere else and from corrupt governments.
            Look at your worldometer there are less people dying from your delta in Aus this year then last year, your own stats tell you that, but that’s more lethal when less people die?

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    Konrad

    The game is over. The jig is up.

    There is no solution involving non-sterilizing partial inoculations.

    Foolish Australian politicians tried to play the “vax passports” game, and they have lost, and lost badly.

    And you know what? They know they’ve lost, just as the Biden Junta knows they’ve lost.

    Sorry, was it 15 boosters to flatten the curve?

    No it was 80% of the adult population double vaxxed before the lockdowns and beatings would stop. Then 70%. Then 70% with one shot …

    Get the picture? They know they’ve lost. They aren’t fighting “vaccine hesitancy” they are in a losing battle with “vaccine” resistance.

    Their dream of “vaccine passports” required that the offered quackzines actually worked, provided superior protection than natural immunity and wouldn’t require expensive boosters before 90% of the sheeple were jabbed. That’s fail, fail and fail.

    It seemed so easy didn’t it? Exaggerate the risk of a GoF study leaked from a Chinese lab, then deploy the “solution” that had been waiting since 2017.

    Only the “solution” was a bit of a fizzer. (Im going to call that a “galactic understatement”, because someone needs to coin phrases, even in these dark times).

    Those fighting “vaccine hesitancy” have suddenly realized they were facing Quackzine resistance, right at the moment the highest “vaccinated” nations were having their comeuppance on natural immunity beating the quackzines and an ADE signal emerging.

    I’m unquackzinated and may need a therapy group for schadenfreude addiction …

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    • #
      PeterS

      Another reason why the jig ought to be up is officialdom are now saying they are looking into booster shots as the vaccines wear off after 6 months. I wonder how many boosters it will take for the penny to drop for the vast majority of people.

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        OriginalSteve

        You mean like the rabbit hole of eternal boosters and rapidly decaying health as a result…..?

        I heard a figure of 1st covid shot reduces immune function by 15%, the second by 35% and even a flu jab after that could finish you off.

        And we have ADE and cytokine storms yet to navigate…..

        By the time you’re up to 4th shot I’d suggest a strong breath of wind could end you…thats probably when they will release the 2nd bio weapon to finish everyone off.

        Who needs guns? The CCP and globalist Collaborators in this and other western nations appear to be reserving a guaranteed seat at the next Nuremberg.

        Om going to teach myself how to drive a dozer….

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    PeterS

    Elephant in the room time again.
    Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines: around 90 to 97%
    Effectiveness of natural immunity: around 98 to 99.9%

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      Analitik

      The mass Israeli survey and a Kentucky survey showed that the reinfection rate was 0.1% so 40 times better than any of the vaccines at their peak.

      The Kentucky survey was a warped study to try and demonstrate how vaccines were more effective than natural immunity and claimed that the vaccinated were 2.5 times less likely to get infected than unvaccinated who had recovered. They conjured up the result by comparing reinfection rates of vaccinated and unvaccinated with both groups havig already recovered from COVID-19. Looking into the figures the unvaccinated only had a 1 in 1000 chance of being reinfected while getting vaccinated as well reduced this to 1 in 2500.

      Lies, lies and damned statistics.

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        PeterS

        Yes, it’s not a simple exercise as there are so many factors to take into account plus there are so many unknowns. Then there is the time factor – we are still very early in all this and no one really knows of the long term effects of the vaccines and the mutation rate of the virus itself. So, I take the KISS approach. On the balance of probabilities the chances of getting a serious illness or dying from COVID-19 is so small it’s almost irrelevant. Taking the risk factors of the vaccines, why add to the risk? So, the only sensible decision is not to take the COVID-19 vaccine, just as I don’t take other respiratory vaccines for similar reasons although I would feel far safer taking them as they have been more thoroughly tested.

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        PeterS

        Actually if we look at the effectiveness of the vaccines on the delta strain, the figure is much much lower. Probably worse for other variants.

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          Analitik

          Plus you have to add in the fading “immumity” of the vaccines since they are so antibody dependent (poor T-cell response so the immune system doesn’t “remember” the infection for producing new antibodies).

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      TedM

      “Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines: around 90 to 97%”. Questionable but even if correct, applies only for a few months. Natural immunity probably life long in spite of the FDA’s statement to the contrary.

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        PeterS

        I was being very lenient on the side of the pro-vaccine lobby. Yes, in reality it’s very likely far worse for them over the longer term, especially now we know the effectiveness of the vaccines start declining rapidly after about 6 months. That’s why booster shots are being recommended overseas although some are pulling it back, probably because they don’;t want to spook people too fast too soon. It’s all really very much like a shell game. So much misinformation is coming from both sides so it’ virtually impossible to knwo the truth. That’s one reason why I refuse to take the vaccines. I will wait and see.

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    Rambling Idiot

    I agree with everything in this article except the notion of hard borders. Once the ‘pure’ states get a few cases they are going to be very impure shortly afterwards due to the infectivity of the virus. As to Australia learning anything from UK experience our pollies and their health bureaucrats are far too stupid for this. Ivermectin will continue to be suppressed since, if the ruling bureaucracy finally realize it is useful, then they also realize they are culpable for suppressing it in the past and present. The only antivirals available will be new and profitable drugs from Big Pharma.

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      Vicki Sanderson

      Not wrong. I have accepted this for some time.

      Will hate putting more money into the pockets of Big Pharma. But then I suppose it is better than our cattle drench!

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    Lance

    Be very careful about trusting the US FDA “Approval”. They approved a vax that isn’t available and likely never will be in the US.

    “Here’s what you need to know when somebody orders you to get the vaccine:; Ask to see the vial. If it says “Comirnaty,” it’s a licensed product. If it says “Pfizer-BioNTech,” it’s an experimental product, and under 21 U.S. Code 360bbb, you have the right to refuse.

    If it comes from Moderna or Johnson & Johnson (marketed as Janssen), you have the right to refuse.

    The FDA is playing bait and switch with the American public. If it doesn’t say Comirnaty, you have not been offered an approved vaccine.”

    https://leohohmann.com/2021/08/25/fda-playing-bait-and-switch-with-americans-tricking-them-into-believing-shots-currently-being-offered-have-been-granted-full-approval-when-they-have-not/

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      PeterS

      That’s backed up by the attempts of a number of people through the freedom of information act to get governments to provide proof the COVID-19 virus does exist by showing appropriate documentation. The response has always been there is no such documentation. Now, I’m not saying COVID-19 does not exist – it probably does. But I do wonder how many so called COVID-19 cases and deaths are actually due to some other virus, known or unknown. We all know the PCR test is useless. Other tests are available but I don’t know how good they are.

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        OriginalSteve

        History tells us so far no one can build a corona virus vaccine.

        And coronavirus has a natural reservoir in animals, so it cant be “smallpoxed” out of existance via vaccine.

        And lets not forget too that there are drugs that can nail coronavirus.

        It is also a *novel* virus….like a bitsa dog that just wont leave you alone….

        So uts an unwinnable quagmire , which logic says is a front for something else – like implementing freedom killing vaccine passports.

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        • #

          There are some who “know” the PCR test is useless, but it might be more useful for them to learn how the test works and what its limitations are instead.

          Some people appear to be suggesting conspiracies perhaps unwittingly that would involve every biomedical lab in the world, 99% of doctors, most lawyers, forensic scientists, pathologists, paleolithic researchers etc etc. Perhaps they would temper their comments if they spent some hours reading papers on PubMed, and started to

          There are greens who “know” that renewables can run electricity grids. Good people can convince themselves of many things. It is easier than finding the truth.

          There is great fraud and corruption going on with Covid but there are also vested interests that benefit from feeding false information to skeptics to bait them. It takes discipline and research to spot the real corruption from the false flags.

          If I was running Big Pharma and had no conscience I would hide any real bad news among a swarm of false flag stories that skeptics could grab and cheer on mistakenly, only to them make them look like fools when it is easily debunked.

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        ozman

        There are many lazy researchers who just toe the official line and repeat the mantra:

        SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was isolated in the laboratory and is available for research by the scientific and medical community.

        The truth is further research reveals that “isolated” is not isolation but sleight of hand, using changing definitions and relying upon lazy minds. Or simply claimed as unnecessary, because a PCR test is sufficient.

        More research reveals that in an “Emergency Use Only” diagnostic paper the declaration “No quantified virus isolates of the 2019-nCoV were available”—to base a PCR test on— was buried on page 39, moved to p42, and is now on p40.

        Another paper states: “virus isolates are unavailable”. Therefore “we aimed to develop and deploy robust diagnostic methodology for use in public health laboratory settings “without having virus material available…..[so one was created using a computer] based on 297 original clinical specimens containing a full spectrum of human respiratory viruses.”

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        • #

          Be aware that it is easy for mischievous people or malevolent actors to pull up very early papers or studies and make declarations about things that have since been shown to be true 100,000 times. It is an easy way to create a false flag.

          The virus has been singled out and shown in electronmicrographs, in plaque forming assays and in thousands upon thousands of PCR tests in labs all over the world. All 29,000 bases have been sequenced and contact tracers can often find the physical link between people with security camera footage which match the genetic tracking.

          Keep your skeptical hat on. People are waving red flags to distract good people from the real corruption.

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    Analitik

    While better than your original escaped draft of this article, you still go on about the Delta variant being more dangerous from studies that were cherry picked by the CDC – Scotland and Canada

    I need to dig out the comment I made with the UK figures again that demonstrate the Delta variant is less likely to cause hospitalizations and deaths per infection.

    Ok, with poor outpatient medical treatment, the larger the numbers that get infected by the Delta variant MAY result in the hospitals being overwhelmed which would increase the number of deaths but this is not a foregone conclusion.

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    Travis T. Jones

    Peter C Doherty, Laureate Professor, The Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity, is also a committed doomsday global warming cultist and overpopulation zealot.

    In this 2016 article, “Living with complexity: evolution, ecology, viruses and [global warming]”
    Doherty, attempts to tie a virus pandemic and doomsday global warming around the time of the zika virus.

    When “permanent drought” Flannery is referenced you know it’s out there with Gaia.

    Some of the truths about viruses …

    “ … by involving new teams of different specialists, develop better therapeutics (drugs) and preventative strategies (vaccines) though it will take a decade or more to get to that point.”

    “What we’re seeing now with the zika virus is a classic “virgin soil” epidemic in the Americas: nobody is protected by prior experience and ( though they may show few clinical signs) the virus multiplies in the blood of anyone bitten by an infected Aedes.

    In subsequent years there will be fewer susceptible people and the extent of the infection will tail off.”

    https://theconversation.com/living-with-complexity-evolution-ecology-viruses-and-climate-change-59750

    Would the government go anywhere else for a report than a echo chamber of fellow “build back better” travellers?

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    TedM

    This is all about a vaccine that was never tested on children, pregnant women or the elderly. A vaccine, which being imperfect, will almost certainly drive mutants. https://twitter.com/i/status/1358353911002902530
    So we have a vaccine which drives mutants which requires new vaccines. It appears that the ship has just come in for big pharma.

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    David Maddison

    Remember how Leftist lovers of the Chinese bioweapon relished its civilisation destroying capability and kept on telling us that you didn’t develop immunity or lengthy immunity to COVID and you could get it multiple times?

    E.g. https://theconversation.com/immunity-to-covid-19-may-not-last-this-threatens-a-vaccine-and-herd-immunity-142556

    They lied (no surprise there).

    Lifelong immunity can be developed.

    Recent Dr Been video: https://youtu.be/ISWpW-ykjPo

    Article: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9
    Article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4

    So there goes another excuse to keep the people permanently locked up in prison states and impose a Marxist or Fascist dictatorship (for our own good, of course).

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    Lance

    The mRNA quackzines are variant specific. That’s why the “original” Pfizer vax was 90% effective for the original covid and only 39% effective for the Delta variant.

    Every variant has its own R0. For the original covid, R0 was 2.0. The effective R0 is R0 * ( 1 – Eff%).

    So for the original covid, the effective R0 is 2 *(1-.9) = 0.2. This is less than 1 so exponential growth doesn’t happen.

    For Delta, the R0 is between 5 and 8. The vax is 39% effective. Effective R0 is (1-.39) * 5 = 3.0. Runaway growth.

    The quackzines effectiveness declines over time. That’s why the demand for boosters, 2 or 3 or 4 more. Also why Pfizer is talking about “new” vax that are variant specific. Everyone gets jabbed again for every new variant. That isn’t a plan.

    The quackzines only target the spike protein. Natural immune system targets the entire virus, body shell and spike, and develops dozens or hundreds of B and T cell responses and provides durable, flexible, protection.

    Jo is right. You cannot vax your way out of this. Ultimately, as there is no sterilizing vax, the only long term solution is natural immunity aided by antivirals and perhaps some quackzines for immunocompromised or elderly people. The general population would benefit most by antivirals and natural immunity.

    The leaky, variant specific, non sterilizing, quackzines, create evolutionary pressure on the virus to mutate, and it does. In a way, the quackzines are causing the variants more quickly and unpredictably than would normally occur. Each individual with a quackzine becomes a mutation factory. What might have taken years, happens in months or weeks because millions of people are generating mutations. Viruses do what they do and what they are forced to do.

    This situation will go on without end until natural immunity takes over and that will happen faster with antivirals, not quackzines. In the meantime, Pfizer et al become richer, faster, as long as politics is driving the outcome.

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    Robber

    Shocking news – 170,000 people die every year in Australia.
    18,000 people die from heart disease and 5,000 from diabetes – when will our governments impose strict diets and exercise regimens to stop this loss?

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    • #
      Bright Red

      Strict diets would be simpler and less restrictive than the Covid response while saving way more lives at a much much much lower cost with the added benefit of freeing up hospital beds. Government stupidity knows no bounds.

      30

    • #

      great idea let us out of lockdown so we are not just sitting around waiting and can be active 😉

      what else would you prescribe for healthy people

      10

  • #
    • #

      They got the data, a lot of but don’t care.

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      Taking large doses of this drug is dangerous and can cause serious harm.

      Please expand on this. Billions of people around the world have been dosed with it and under less controlled conditions than demanded here.

      Why are you repeating the devil’s message?

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      • #
        Lance

        Every chemical has an LD50, the dosage at which half of the subjects die.

        The LD50 for Ivermectin is 52 grams. 52,000 mg. The normal dosage of Ivermectin for humans is 3 mg tablet.

        Thus, one would have to ingest some 17,000 3 mg tablets to reach the LD50. It isn’t physically possible to do that.

        So, methinks the margin of safety is quite large.

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        • #

          Lance- a dose is per something. Is that 52g administered orally for a person of 75kg for instance?

          05

          • #
            Lance

            Oral LD50 (rat) 50 mg/kg . Oral LD50 (human) >15mg/kg
            Dermal LD50 406 mg/kg (rabbit)

            As the available literature (Lankas and Gordon, 1989) suggested the LD 50 of ivermectin to be more than 50 mg/kg but less than 300 mg/kg, the study was conducted with the starting dose of 300 mg/kg.

            40

          • #
            Lance

            I was mistakenly looking at dermal (topical) application.

            Oral for humans, the normal dosage of 3 to 12 mg for a 75 kg human is still less than 0.2% to 1% of the oral LD50 for humans.

            One would have to ingest some 100 to 300 pills/day to approach toxicity. That’s a lot.

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        • #
          Ross

          Lance, the ivermectin rate is 0.2 mg per kg body weight. Its basically the same for all mammals. So for a 100 kg person ( rather large!) that’s 20 mg. Hence, your figures are a little out. But nonetheless, ivermectin has human use approval in lots of countries (including Australia) so all that has been considered in that approval. Its no more dangerous to take than paracetamol, so you are correct. I can see now why ivermectin is a controversial subject in Europe. All those countries don’t have a human approval for ivermectin.

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          • #
            Lance

            The IVM tablets usually come in 3, 6, 0r 12 mg tablets. I get that. Some you take once a day, twice a day, or 3 x per day. Roughly 10 to 20 mg/day.

            My point is that it takes 52,000 mg to reach a lethal dosage in half the subjects. Some people are saying IVM is toxic. Well, it can be, if you can shove 52,000 mg down the hatch. Water is deadly if you drink enough of it.

            IVM inhibits the Covid replication. So 20 mg/day or 12 or whatever isn’t even 0.04% of the LD50 so it isn’t a risk of toxic overdose. A normal person couldn’t even intake enough pills to get close to a toxic level.

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            TedM

            0.4mg/kg for Delta variant.

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      Konrad

      Ivermectin should not be used for people?!

      Then why is it on the UN list of essential drugs? Why has it been approved for human use for over 40 years?

      Then I notice your link is to the US FDA …

      Oh dear. Would that be the same FDA that is trying to ban antibody testing to prevent those with natural immunity avoiding the quackzins? Ban Antibody testing to prevent those who took the quackzines seeing how fast their “protection” evaporates? Finding out how useless those quackzine passports were?

      Would this also be the same FDA that is now trying to get customs to destroy all imports of Ivermectin into the US even if the recipient has a script from their doctor?

      That FDA?

      Quite frankly I rather take Dr. Mengeles’s advice on medical ethics than trust anything the US FDA has to say. (Although while vile, the US FDA is slightly more trustworthy than the Australian TGA).

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        Vicki Sanderson

        You are absolutely right, Konrad – that is why the virologists and critical care physicians who 1) know its history and record 2) have observed its effects in early COVID cases…are outraged by the statements of the FDA.

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      Furiously Curious

      Again!

      “Follow the Commissioners…

      Scott Gottlieb – Former Commissioner of the FDA resigns and then goes to Pfizer to be on the board of directors.

      Stephen Hahn – Replaces Gottlieb as FDA Commissioner and eventually resigns. He is now the Chief Medical Officer for Moderna.

      Janet Woodcock – Wrongly advises Rick Bright (a fully-controlled individual ?!) that HCQ is a dangerous drug requiring EUA, (emergency use authorisation) that should be ONLY limited to hospitalized patients. Remember, all of the relevant clinical data at the time showed HCQ to be extremely effective in early treatment, and NOT in hospitalized patients. Several months later Janet Woodcock replaces Stephen Hahn as the Commissioner of the FDA.

      Is this all making sense yet?”

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  • #
    • #

      Beside enough studies, have a look at India, what was, do you think the reason of the fast decrease in new cases (not infeczed !) ?
      Right, Ivermectin, given doctors to people with the advise how to use.

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        William Astley

        The Indian covid new daily case rate and deaths is interesting.

        There is no third peak, Delta variation, increase in covid cases or death rate, in India.

        https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

        India must be using Ivermectin.

        The India covid new daily cases is flat, though high. And the death rate is low and flat.

        The Indian statistics, can be explained by widespread Ivermectin use in some Indian states, but not all. And rich people/smart people know Ivermectin stops oovid and hence buy Ivermectin or get it from their doctor..

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          Serge Wright

          I saw that Pat cash copped a spray from PF in the SMH for publicly stating he is not vaxed and has used Ivermectin for the past year when traveling the globe and has never caught COVID despite spending time in COVID hot zones.

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            Ross

            I’ve always liked Pat Cash. I think he now resides in Sweden, so he’s probably a COVID rationalist as well. I think he described women’s tennis once as 2 sets of junk. So, he’s definitely an anti-PC type and Bandana man would just love to have a go at him.

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        • #

          If you look at the data sources, you find out, there are states using Ivermectin and other states where they stopped Ivermectin treatment.
          On Covexit.com (?) was published an interview about with a med. from India.

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        • #

          India is using Ivermectin
          https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/indias-ivermectin-blackout

          as well as this 😉
          “India could be the first country to sue a WHO scientist for advising against Ivermectin against Covid-19. The Indian Bar Association has initiated proceedings.
          JUNE 27, 2021, 7:23 AMHAKIM ARIF

          (GOOGLE Translation)
          Dr Soumya Swaminathan. A great trial for murderous disinformation?
          DR SOUMYA SWAMINATHAN. A GREAT TRIAL FOR MURDEROUS DISINFORMATION?
          On May 25, the Indian Bar Association (IBA) filed a lawsuit against Dr Soumya Swaminathan, WHO Chief Scientist, accusing her of causing the deaths of Indian citizens by deceiving them about the ivermectin.
          The WHO scientist is accused of making a misleading tweet on May 10, 2021 against the use of ivermectin which resulted in the state of Tamil Nadu removing ivermectin from the protocol the following day. She had just declared this treatment effective against Covid-19.

          If Dr Soumya Swaminathan is found guilty, then she could be sentenced to death or life imprisonment.The WHO scientist is accused of making a misleading tweet on May 10, 2021 against the use of ivermectin which resulted in the state of Tamil Nadu removing ivermectin from the protocol the following day. She had just declared this treatment effective against Covid-19.

          If Dr Soumya Swaminathan is found guilty, then she could be sentenced to death or life imprisonment.”

          https://thefallingdarkness.com/ivermectin-who-scientist-faces-death-penalty/

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          • #
            William Astley

            Great link Marksman.

            I totally support criminal charges. There should be charges for individuals in our countries also. That is the only way we are going to stop institutionalized evil. i.e. It does not matter what political party is in power big pharma has rigged the system and successfully hiding the evil and blocking knowledge/facts, like the population’s Vit D deficiency. Evil Minions maximizing profits for big pharma.

            https://thefallingdarkness.com/ivermectin-who-scientist-faces-death-penalty/

            WHO ‘officials’ who are stinking corrupt and who are issuing lies about Ivermectin should be charged with mass murder.

            “In the regions of Delhi, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand and Goa cases fell by 98%, 97%, 94% and 86% respectively. In contrast, Tamil Nadu who chose not to use ivermectin, the number of cases exploded and became the highest in India. Deaths in Tamil Nadu have increased tenfold.

            In a test of over 4,000 people in India (over 3,000 took ivermectin) and over 1,000 did not. The results showed that 2% of people who took ivermectin had a covid confirmed by a PCR test and that 11.7% of people who did not take ivermectin had a covid confirmed by a PCR test.

            The specific charges include conducting a disinformation campaign against ivermectin and posting statements on social and mainstream media to falsely influence the public against the use of ivermectin despite the existence of large amounts of ivermectin. clinical data showing its profound efficacy in the prevention and treatment of covid-19.

            WHO disinformation campaign?

            TrialSite has evidence that the WHO is deleting important data relating to the treatment of Covid19. Recently, she published a report on the large local effort of the public health operation in Uttar Pradesh but omitted the basic fact, that ivermectin is in fact widely used as part of the initiative. Why would the WHO go to such great lengths to suppress this important information – that is, a treatment that actually works? What kind of agenda has this organization adopted when it appears to be using disinformation to deceive and disrupt nations seeking to bring this pandemic under control? Is this recent lawsuit in India just a symbolic gesture or does it represent the harbinger of other legal actions to come? Asks TrialSite.”

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        Destroyer D69

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4353fc6059aeb16ed678d3925e8e87b70efe16c92dce0fa956973009b098238a.jpg This is a graph of covid in one province of India relating to Ivermectin.

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    David Maddison

    Here’s a question on what a strategy should be if using antivirals and no quackzines, or at least giving people an option of either the quackzine or an antivirals if some sort of prophylactic treatment is made mandatory.

    Apart from protecting the vulnerable such as elderly, obese and immune compromised; for those that use antivirals, should they take them prophylacticly and never develop an infection and thus no antibodies or should they allow themselves to get infected and then immediately take antivirals thus both developing antibodies and then quickly ridding oneself of the virus? Or a third strategy would be to take a very low dose of antivirals so as to give partial protection but also a low level infection that will allow antibodies to develop.

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      Vicki Sanderson

      Good question & I’ve often thought about that. Not yet an option though.

      10

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day David M,
      I’ve opted for something like your option 3, but adding an aggressive use of vitamin D3 supplement, on a daily basis, which bolsters my natural immune system, 10,000 IU per day.
      For the anti-viral I’m taking: one quercetin tablet per day, when the recommended number is three, except recently where I’ve increased it to two when I go into town where some cases have been identified; and zinc, one tablet per day. (I gave up on the medical system for HCQ and IVM.)

      I’ve been on that level regime for about a year now.

      If I were to develop symptoms , or tested positive, I’d take a special dose of D3 of 50,000 IU, then increase the daily vitamin D3 intake to 15,000 until symptoms had gone.
      For good measure I’m also taking 1000mg of vitamin C three times a day, and would increase that to four or five times per day.
      Not sure about the zinc, probably double it.

      Zelenko’s protocol discusses both prophylaxis and treatment, which the above approximates.

      Cheers
      Dave B

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    PeterS

    OT but worth noting. In NSW people are now being booked for speeding even if doing a couple of k’s over the limit. I know this has been the rule in Victoria for some time. It’s now the case in NSW. Pure revenue raising and it’s understandable as they are desperate for more revenue to offset the reduction of revenue from other sources.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Apart from revenue, it is also a war against the motorist and personal mobility.

      In the Leftist utopia, the prols are expected to travel by public transport (but only when strictly necessary, no recreational travel) or not at all. (See their manual, Nineteen Eighty Four.)

      Naturally, the Elites will continue to drive.

      Leftists hate free personal mobility as much as they hate free speech.

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      • #
        PeterS

        One could argue that’s the real reason for mandating EVs. Make them too expensive and unreliable forcing people to use more of public transport. Of course the elite will still have their fossil fuel cars.

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    redress

    Dennis…I wouldn’t trust the ABC or the FDA for any covid advice.

    “Ivermectin is currently used for about 23% of the world’s population.”

    https://ivmstatus.com/

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      WXcycles

      It’s damning to think these ‘3rd world’ and ‘developing-world’ states were far more open-minded, had more flexible institutions, had more wisdom in their leaders and medical professionals, and actually used the precautionary principle properly, and didn’t just us it as some perverse ideological excuse to listen to s h i t s h e a d s at the UN, who strongly recommended doing nothing precautionary, nor principled.

      This is a really bad look.

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      Serp

      I took it that Dennis was being informative, not advocating for the contents of his two ivermectin posts; accordingly I upthumbed him whereas many killed the messenger.

      30

  • #
    PeterS

    As I suspected there are cracks appearing the ranks of the police, a least overseas. We just need our police to follow suit, which might be hard.

    Commissioner Shea, other cops flout NYPD’s mask-wearing rules
    Police officers rebel against corona measures in German

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    Analitik

    Even the MSM is starting to question the wisdom of mass vaccination

    Bloomberg voices converns

    Though it is evident vaccination still provides powerful protection against the virus, there’s growing concern that vaccinated people may be more vulnerable to serious illness than previously thought.

    A newly released, far larger CDC case study of infections in New York state, meanwhile, found that the number of breakthrough infections has steadily ticked up since May, accounting for almost 4% of cases by mid-July.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-21/science-can-t-keep-up-with-virus-creating-worry-for-vaccinated

    and the BBC has this VERY good article balancing vaccination vs natural immunity

    “We could be digging ourselves into a hole, for a very long time, where we think we can only keep Covid away by boosting every year,” Prof Eleanor Riley, an immunologist from the University of Edinburgh, told me.

    You get a broader immune response after being infected with the virus than vaccination.

    Whether you’ve had Moderna or Pfizer or Oxford-AstraZeneca, your body is learning to spot just one thing – the spike protein.
    This is the critical part of the virus to make antibodies to, and the results – by keeping most out of hospital – have been spectacular.
    But having the other 28 proteins to target too, would give T-cells far more to go at.

    Each time you’re exposed, the immune system gets a little bit stronger, and this continues until old age, when the immune system starts to fail and the infections become a problem again.

    “This isn’t proven, but it could be a lot cheaper and simpler to let that happen than spend the whole time immunising people,” said Prof Finn, who warns we could end up “locked into a cycle of boosting” without seeing if it was necessary.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098

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      Analitik

      “concerns”, of course. No “coverns”

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      David Maddison

      Imagine how bad it REALLY is if even the MSM thinks it’s bad.

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        WXcycles

        David, no one knows the future, no one knows the present either, and our understand of the past also has a low level of certainty. Everyone is learning here, and most are using mass-media and politicians plus a few public figure doctors, and some in-the-loop experts or direct observers to do so. All of which people can and must be more-or-less presumed to be corrupt or be driven by private agendas, to some degree.

        However, I don’t know how more outspoken critics in this thread, especially those endlessly ranting/waffling about politics and the need for a ‘revolution’ or closet-anarchism expect anything else to occur, than what is occurring? I’m also puzzled as to why some people insist on making up a ruse that current ‘facts’, as they are known today, were really their personal prior fore-thoughts. Really? Yeah, well hindsight is always 20:20. Nut let’s not pretend scatter-gun speculations equate to knowing the future, and being able to advise the surest and best path forward. We don’t know and never will.

        The result is just raw punditry, dressed up as knowing, every time, and always will be, it’s inevitable.

        punditry – noun – ˈpʌn.dɪ.tri – The job or activity of giving your opinion about a subject because you know a lot about it.

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  • #
    Climate Heretic

    From the Quadrant website

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/public-health/2021/08/a-total-lack-of-therapeutic-perspective/
    .
    By Dr Phillip M. Altman BPharm(Hons), MSc, PhD
    .
    “Call for an Urgent Review of the NCCET Recommendation regarding the use of ivermectin in the management of COVID-19 within 14 days”
    .
    and
    .
    “Dr Altman is a well known Australian authority on clinical trials and regulatory affairs with more than 30 years experience in clinical research and regulatory affairs. He is a graduate of Sydney University with an Honours degree in Pharmacy, Master of Science and Doctor of Philosophy (pharmacology and pharmaceutical chemistry) degrees. Dr Altman also co-founded and is a Life Member of the largest professional body of pharmaceutical industry scientists involved in clinical research and regulatory affairs (Association of Regulatory and Clinical Scientists to the Australian Pharmaceutical Industry Ltd – ARCS). As well as working in senior management positions for several multinational companies including Merrell-Dow, Hoechst, Roussel and GD Searle, Dr Altman established his own company, Pharmaco Pty Ltd, one of the first contract research organizations (CRO’s) where he served as a Senior Industry Consultant.”
    .
    Regards
    Climate Heretic

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    Simon B

    ‘The solution is profoundly right wing: it’s hard borders, state rights, free speech and free choice — the right to pick the treatment we want with our doctor’ What the? Hard borders & state rights? Dilute the response into 7 or 8 different approaches? Ridiculous! Protect the 70+ and get on with life. The delta strain is less deadly. NSW has a death rate of 0.6% from 19000 cases compared to 3.8% from 21000 in Vic all from last years Andrews infection. The 20-39 age group has has 11,500 of the total 45,000 infections so far for 0.06% percent of deaths. That’s 7 deaths from 940! Get serious. 660 hospitalisations from 12,000 active cases? Sydney and surrounds can cope with that by using all hospitals including private. Wasn’t that the point of the preparedness lockdown last April.
    Get smarter Australia!

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      WXcycles

      It’s good news actually, we are, it’s just taking a longer time for these realizations to wash through the news media chat-cycles. As I see it the improvements in mortality we’re seeing, if continued from here, practically assures the current strategy will succeed, plus it also will evolve.

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        SimonB

        Screw the news media, they’re part of the problem, having idiot premiers jump and obsessively focused on cases, rather than the death rate. Modelling our way to hysterical levels is ridiculous. Of course the hospitalisation and death rate for covid will increase without lockdowns….so will the road toll and workplace accidents!
        The death rate amongst the 20-39 age group who account for 1/4 of all cases in Australia is 0.06%. We can have a 500% increase and still only have 1/3 of 1% o that fit working age group die from covid!
        When was the last time the media was obsessively demanding the cessation of peoples rights because of the deaths of less than 1% of the whole population.
        This is insanity!

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    Kim

    That 80% figure needs to include the under 18’s. Only then is it anywhere near safe.

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    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      Someone needs to explain why this covid “vaccine” is so dangerous to children.

      When:
      Birth Hepatitis B
      2 months Diphtheriea, tetanus, whooping cough, hepatitis B, polio, heamophilus, influenzae.
      4 months Diphtheriea, tetanus, whooping cough, hepatitis B, polio, heamophilus, influenzae.
      6 months Diphtheriea, tetanus, whooping cough, hepatitis B, polio, heamophilus, influenzae.
      12 months Meningococcal, Measles, mumps, rubella, pneumococcal.
      18 months Heamophilus influenzae, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, diptheria, tetanus, whooping couph.
      4 years Diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio.

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        Analitik

        How long were those tested before being used on the kiddies?

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      • #
        Analitik

        And how dangerous are those diseases to the kids?
        CoViD has a vanishingly small rate of serious infection for healthy kids

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        Stan

        Because it is not a vaccine, it is experimental gene therapy. There has never been a successful mRNA or adenoviral vector vaccine. Many times they have tried but failed, and in some cases killed test subjects. Suddenly, we are forcing children to take this?

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      OriginalSteve

      i disagree.

      i was looking at nsw helth website, figures for hospitalizations of people under age 18 was average 1.2% across that age range.

      And that recent Oxford study that showed vaccinated health workers in Vietnam had 251x higher viral loads compared to original strain, and were cross infecting each other and patients ( and presumably out in the community each day….)

      Where is the problem?

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    Neville

    Interesting to look at the ACTUAL deaths in Australia from different causes from Jan to May 2021 compared to 2020 full year and the 2015 to ’19 average.

    Important that there has not been a case of an INFLUENZA death in Australia from late July 2020 to end of May 2021. Over to the ABS numbers and link.

    https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release
    “Ischaemic heart disease

    “Ischaemic heart disease is the leading cause of death in Australia. The category includes acute conditions such as myocardial infarction and chronic conditions such as coronary atherosclerosis.

    5,432 deaths occurred from ischaemic heart disease between January and May 2021

    This is 404 deaths (6.9%) below the 2015-19 average, comparable to the 5,464 deaths at the same point in 2020.
    Deaths due to ischaemic heart disease have been decreasing over time.

    Cerebrovascular diseases

    Cerebrovascular diseases refer to a number of conditions such as stroke, cerebral aneurysms and stenosis that affect blood flow and circulation to the brain.

    3,600 deaths from cerebrovascular diseases (including strokes) occurred between January and May 2021.
    This is 282 deaths (7.3%) below the 2015-19 average, comparable to the 3,695 deaths at the same point in 2020.
    Similar to ischaemic heart disease, deaths from cerebrovascular diseases have been declining over time.

    Respiratory diseases

    Respiratory diseases include causes of death such as pneumonia, influenza, and chronic lower respiratory diseases (including emphysema and chronic bronchitis). Deaths due to COVID-19 are not included in this category. COVID-19 deaths are captured using WHO issued emergency codes U07.1 and U07.2 and are not currently grouped with any other diseases, though they are included in the total number of deaths.

    There were 5,043 deaths from respiratory diseases between January and May 2021.
    This is 115 deaths (2.3%) higher than the 2015-19 average, but remains 100 deaths (1.9%) lower than at the same point in 2020.
    During May 2021 there were 1,202 deaths due to respiratory diseases, which is 168 (16.2%) more than in May 2020, and comparable to the baseline average of 1,177.

    Chronic lower respiratory diseases

    Chronic lower respiratory diseases include chronic bronchitis, emphysema, asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary diseases (COPD). Chronic lower respiratory diseases are a sub-group of respiratory diseases (J00-J99).

    There were 2,823 deaths from chronic lower respiratory diseases between January and May 2021.
    This is 95 deaths (3.5%) higher than the 2015-19 average, but comparable to the 2,806 deaths at the same point in 2020.
    During May 2021 there were 652 deaths from chronic lower respiratory conditions, which is 17.3% higher than in 2020, but comparable to the baseline average of 651 deaths.

    Influenza and pneumonia

    Influenza and pneumonia are acute respiratory diseases often grouped together when compiling leading causes of death. They are two distinct diseases: influenza is a viral infection, while pneumonia can be caused by a virus, bacteria or fungi. Influenza is a common cause of pneumonia.

    Influenza deaths are highly seasonal and most commonly occur in Australia between the months of May and September. The timing, length and severity of the influenza season varies considerably from year to year. For this reason, influenza deaths have been excluded from the graph below so pneumonia deaths can be tracked separately.

    Influenza and pneumonia are a subset of respiratory diseases (J00-J99).

    There were 766 deaths due to influenza and pneumonia recorded between January and May 2021. All deaths in this category were due to pneumonia.
    This is 223 deaths (22.5%) lower than the 2015-19 average, and 256 deaths (25.0%) lower than at the same point in 2020.

    Influenza

    There has not been a death certified due to influenza since late July 2020.

    Pneumonia

    The number of deaths due to pneumonia has been largely below average since late April 2020.
    Between January and May 2021, deaths due to pneumonia were 142 (15.6%) below the 2015-19 average and 215 deaths (21.9%) below the same point in 2020.
    During May 2021 there were 208 deaths due to pneumonia, which is 10.1% higher than in 2020 but remains 6.3% below the long term average.

    Cancer

    Cancer includes malignant neoplasms encompassing carcinomas, sarcomas and lymph and blood cancers.

    20,143 deaths from cancer occurred between January and May 2021.
    This is 1,149 deaths (6.0%) higher than the 2015-19 average, but comparable to the 19,884 deaths at the same point in 2020.
    During May 2021 there were 4,262 deaths due to cancer, which is 3.4% more than in May 2020, and 8.2% higher than the baseline average.

    Diabetes

    Diabetes includes both Type 1 diabetes and Type 2 diabetes. The majority of diabetes deaths are from Type 2 diabetes.

    1,880 deaths from diabetes occurred between January and May 2021.
    This is 158 deaths (9.2%) higher than the 2015-19 average, but remains 109 deaths (5.5%) lower than at the same point in 2020.
    During May 2021 there were 420 deaths due to diabetes, which comparable to the 416 deaths in May 2020, but 10.8% higher than the baseline average.

    Dementia, including Alzheimer disease

    Dementia, including Alzheimer disease, is the second leading cause of death in Australia and counts of deaths from dementia have increased steadily over the past 20 years. This increase should be taken into consideration when comparing 2020 and 2021 counts against baseline averages.

    6,078 deaths from dementia, including Alzheimer disease, occurred between January and May 2021.
    This is 888 deaths (17.1%) higher than the 2015-19 average, but comparable to the 6,068 deaths at the same point in 2020.

    During May 2021 there were 1,324 deaths due to dementia, including Alzheimer disease, which is 6.4% more than in May 2020, and 11.9% higher than the baseline average.

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      Neville

      Sorry , but just to be accurate the above Jan To end of May 2021 numbers are compared to 2020 Jan to May and the 2015 to ’19 average are also Jan up to end of May.

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    Ross

    Without getting bogged down with R˚ figures and modelling etc. The basic take away from anyone showing an interest in OS data and vaccine performance will tell you that irrespective of vax % rates there will still be significant COVID infection. The stats on case numbers and % hospitalisations will be slightly different, but in essence lots of people will still get sick and some will die from COVID. The only escape will be if COVID mutates to a more benign biotype or medicos wake up and realise that early treatment may play a part in reducing community infection rates. But that would only work if those early treatments are available freely to the general public. We DONT want people going to hospitals – that is the worse case scenario.

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      SimonB

      Exactly, there are anti virals which can lessen the severity of covid and ensure that sufferers not only recover, but in fairly fit patients, can recover without any necessity for hospitalisation.
      Right now there is an obsession with believing lockdown of the healthy to stop potential transmission is an essential part of the solution.
      We’re a long way from a break down of the medical system.
      There is no acceptance for medical professionals to treat with anti-virals, there has been no need to have doctors make home visits to treat patients because of completely full hospitals.
      The hysteria is insanity. We need a cohesive approach and an actual acceptance of science dealing with this, rather than politicians reacting to every death because the trash media is obsessed with scaremongering headlines.

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    Serge Wright

    We can’t stay locked down and isolated forever, because as we know we will eventually run out of other people’s money, if that hasn’t already occurred. The best solution we have is to take the vax, open up and then take a booster for as long as needed. Some people will die earlier than expected, but that’s life !!! Some people will refuse the vax and take their chances and that’s their right to freedom of choice. Anything else is a road to totalitarianism.

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    • #

      Or perhaps denying people the right to use antivirals that are cheaper and safer is the “road to totalitarianism” and we are far down that road.

      If we don’t protest now.., when will we?

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        Serge Wright

        Hi Jo, I have my Ivermectin sitting on the shelf ready to go, and GPs can already write a script for these drugs. However, I think these alternate treatments will be a supplement to the leaky vax for some time. At this stage we don’t have effective anti virals other than the ones under dispute which we are free to use. There are some monoclonal antibody treatments which could be adopted but they require hospital admission.

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        MP

        I do not know how to take you?

        You have stated the same words 3 or 4 times, you get zero response on the subject. That’s the quality of a large percent of your audience showing.

        You have the perfect platform to bring on the totalitarian discussion, use it please.

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      MP

      The best solution we have is to take the vax, open up and then take a booster for as long as needed.

      That statement is full retard, for 532 days they have been dangling the carrot with offers of new normal, which means whatever they say it means.
      The whole point is to get that crap in you, for you to submit to the tyrants, they will never let us back to the old normal and this is going to get a lot worse, wait until after the COP (out) shindig in Scotland and see what is planed.

      Some people will die earlier than expected, but that’s life !!! Some people will refuse the vax and take their chances and that’s their right to freedom of choice. Anything else is a road to totalitarianism.

      Is that not exactly the same argument with the Kungflu.

      Stand up and push back.

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    Brenda Spence

    Is it possible that the vaccines are causing the disease in some people or is this impossible with just a spike protein?

    Polio vaccinations caused disease there for a while.

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      Brenda Spence

      https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/vaccinated-healthcare-workers-threat-unvaccinated-patients-co-workers/?fbclid=IwAR0hYT8uzJ5AMff0zLlWRfp_jnGo-2xejIOEZJFrfNemqW6t5A-mxvXPRzs

      According to Dr McCullough, vaccinated healthcare workers have up to 251 times the viral load in their nostrils compared to the unvaccinated.

      My sister, an agedcare nurse is being forced to get vaxxed by Sept in WA.

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      Konrad

      Fair question, and the asnswer is no (but also yes).

      The spike protein type non-sterilizing “vaccines” do not introduce any live SARS-COV-2 into the body. They only introduce a part of the virus for the immune system to recognize as a target. This represents only 12% of the full virus RNA, and is incapable of replicating like the full sequence.

      So no, the jabs cannot infect people with the actual virus.

      And now the “also yes” bit:
      When you say “disease” you are talking about the negative health impacts of the virus. In the course of a SARS-COV-2 infection there are two stages. The first stage in which the virus rapidly replicates, and the second stage when the immune system gets the upper hand and destroys the virus, but spreads fragments of the destruction about the body. Some of these fragments can be damaging to many organs. Chief culprit is the spike protein.

      So, had the “vaccines” worked as intended and all spike protein elements injected into the muscle stayed put, things would be fine. But in many people they migrate, and cause damage similar, though typically lesser, to the second “fragmentstion” stage of an actual infection.

      This damage appears to occur in organs with a high expression of the ACE2 receptor. Hence the heart inflamation and permanent scaring issuses occurring in boys.

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        Anton

        Furthermore the mRNA or DNA in some vaccines *can* be spliced into the genome of one’s own body cells via retrotransposons, even though there is no reverse transcriptase in the vaccine; see:

        Zhang L, Richards A, Barrasa MI, Hughes SH, Young RA, Jaenisch R. 2021. Reverse-transcribed SARS-CoV-2 RNA can integrate into the genome of cultured human cells and can be expressed in patient-derived tissues. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA, 118(21):e2105968118. doi: 10.1073/pnas.2105968118

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        Brenda Spence

        Thanks Konrad. Just a few questions then:

        So therefore a “vaccinated” person cannot give covid to an unvaxed person?

        Do we have anything to fear from the viral load in a vaxed person’s nostril as in my reference above.

        Can the spike protein being shed cause ill effects in another person?

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        • #
          Konrad

          A “vaccinated” person cannot give the virus to another person if they have only received the shots.

          However as is now very clear from the data, “fully vaccinated” persons are able to catch and transmit the virus. In fact the viral load in “fully vaccinated” persons who do become infected with Delta is equal to or greater than similarly infected unvaccinated people. Now this is a problem because every viron a “fully vaccinated” person transmits has now successfully survived and replicated in a “fully vaccinated” human incubator. This is the problem with non-sterilizing “vaccines” mass use accelerates viral evolution.

          On the issue of “spike sheading” I have read a lot of anecdotal reports, but have seen no solid scientific studies. It is almost certain that sheading is occurring. Not only are spike proteins migrating from injection site, but mRNA appears to be migrating as well, causing production of the spike protein in organs away from the injection site.

          All anecdotal reports I have seen that can be given weight relate to female close contacts of persons recently jabbed having menstrual cycles changed. This appears to be a short term, not permanent effect.

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          • #

            my daughter who suffers from MS had not had a period for over 10 years but after her Pfizer jab she has a very heavy menstrual cycle every two weeks, she has also commented on the changes in hers friends menstrual cycles after the jab

            is this really a short term, not permanent effect?

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    Phillip Charles Sweeney

    None of these “models” factor in ADE {Antibody-Dependent-Enahcement} which kicks in 6 months after being “vaccinated” with experimental vaccines developed for the Wuhan Variant. Protection against the disease wains with time and if the early injectee is exposed to the new Delta variant, their weakened by conditioned immune system goes into overdrive.

    It is early days yet with most people being “vaccinated” within the last 6 months.

    The next 6 months should prove interesting to say the least!

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    • #
      Konrad

      ADE issues have ended previous vaccine attempts, notably for SARS-1.

      But it should be noted that ADE is just one mechanism for “disease enhancement” type failure of a vaccine attempt.

      ADE risk was considered and assessed prior to the wide use of the spike protein inoculations. The spike protein inoculations were rated low risk for respiratory pathway infection.

      However there are some red flags emerging regarding some form of disease enhancement occurring. Case mortality rates for Delta infections in the “fully vaccinated” are too high, and prior exposure to the virus appears to more than double the chance of adverse reactions to the shots.

      The acid test will be the response of “fully vaccinated” people to “booster shots” engineered for new variants.

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    Furiously Curious

    Really things can’t be that bad?. If covid19 was really bad, doctors would have been beavering away, working out ways to treat it. Surely? That hasn’t been happening, so it can’t be a major problem? If doctors aren’t bothering to treat it, surely that is proof there isn’t a problem!
    The authorities say we have to follow WHO guidelines. OK, the WHO recommends that Remdesivir not be used. The Australian authorities recommend Remdesivir as pretty well the only treatment that can be used. Please explain?

    https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/who-recommends-against-the-use-of-remdesivir-in-covid-19-patients

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Its not about covid

      its about removing freedoms.

      Its just n*zism rebooted, hiding behind covid and climate change….

      Its the same people, the same belief system, same humanity-hating driver.

      The spiritual core of the N W O is n*zism.
      Its eugenics, depopulation, control-freakery and extreme moral depravity, all actioned by the core Elite and thier useful idiot politicians the world over…

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    Vicki Sanderson

    Thank you Jo for one of the best posts on this terrible situation that I have seen. It reveals a lot and is comprehensive in its revelation of government policy and its failings.

    It is truly heartening to see the recognition that anti-virals are a BIG part of getting a handle on this awful virus.

    I also appreciate the unpopular but spot-on identification of the international border implication in the spread of COVID. We had a handle on the pandemic at one stage, but the government succumbed to the presser to open the borders.

    Even so, I still think that anti-virals and MAYBE an effective conventional vaccine, if ADEs are not considered to be instrumental in the intensification of the viral strain.

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    WXcycles

    * The death rate due to Delta is lower than estimated here. The death rates are estimated from Canadian data which estimates that Delta is 2.3 times as deadly as the original Wuflu [11]. The hospitalization rate is likely be to be twice as much as the Alpha strain, which was already 1.5 times higher than the original, based on English and Scottish data [8] [9]). The hospitalization rate for Delta is thus three times higher than the original Wuhan Flu. It’s bad. The Delta variant pumps up the viral load faster, so it swamps immune systems faster and spreads more easily. That explains the higher hospitalization rate, and it’s hard to believe it won’t also increase the death rate — but it may not increase it by the same ratio. The deaths are more about vascular clotting and an overactive immune system, which doctors might be still able to treat.

    The 2.3 times as deadly is very close to what occurred in India as well, and the same reason, hospital ICUs with no beds or even oxygen.

    The question in my mind is why is anyone not even openly considering general use of antivirals? Like using ivermectin as a general available prophylactic precaution given it’s dirt-cheap, and very likely to do no harm at all, with potentially major suppression of illness and mortality. This is becoming a really bad look for Australia, it’s just dumb to rule this out, i.e. like flagrant corruption is being pushed by venal drug companies. I’m wondering where the largest political donations and ad revenues are coming from these days? Will the pharmaceutical industry is high up on that list?

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      Kneel

      I have seen it that the vaccine contracts specify no other treatment options are to be used.
      Don’t know if that’s true.
      Would need to FOI the contract and see what happens – it may not be available under FOI if this is true.
      If it is true, then the public reaction would be very bad, especially if the vaccines are not the answer they have been touted as.

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      tonyb

      WXcycles

      I think health authorities and Govt are very cautious. Anti virals may well work but unless they have been through related clinical tests and officially ‘approved’ specifically for treating Covid then GP’s and hospitals may be reluctant to prescribe them as they may be liable or invalidate their insurances.

      Someone needs to pull together all the tests done-some good some poor-and get peer review in a noted journal, then we might see some action on this front. Until then caution rules the waves.

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    RightOverLabour

    Anyone know if the man in his 30s had other issues…

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/08/coronavirus-new-south-wales-records-more-than-1000-new-covid-19-cases.html

    I am very suspicious of the MSM and the way things are reported.

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    Analitik

    14 new CoViD “cases” in the ACT up from 9 yesterday after plummeting from 30 the day before. So there is still no firm trend
    80 new CoViD “cases” in the Victoria up from 41 yesterday after plateauing from 47 the day before. So there is still no firm trend
    1034 new CoViD “cases” in the New South Wales up from 919 yesterday continuing to rise from 755 the day before. So trend continues upwards.

    https://covidlive.com.au/

    68 new community CoViD “cases” in the New Zealand up from 62 yesterday continuing to rise from 41 the day before. So trend continues upwards.

    https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases

    So there is no definitive proof that the lockdowns are working to contain the Delta variant outbreaks.

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    Bill In Oz

    Jo I am extremely pleased that the states have sovereignty over who enter their territories. Here in SA we live almost a normal life becasue we have closed the borders to NSW, ACT & Victoria
    As for Morrison’s plan it seems to me he whistling pius nonsense. It will all depend the states cooperating. Somehow I don’t think that Tasmania, South Australia, Western Australia, Queensland or even the Northern Territory will cooperate at all. And once they have suppressed Covid in their territories I doubt that the Act or Queensland or Victoria will do so either.

    NSW will be left by itself ‘opened up ” and as for the month 3 months going down, it’s going down the bloody gurgler anyway.

    Meanwhile I am double jabbed with Astraxenica but heard last night on the ABC News that my immunity will drop to around 67% in 4 months.. .I’m gunna need another dose around Xmas ! And every maybe four months or so forever into the future in . Which frankly is bloody useless..

    It’s just as well I’m taking lots of Vitamin D3 – and have been throughout this entire catastrophe. As D3 in sufficient big enough, dose seems to suppress any major symptoms if ever I get infected.

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      tonyb

      Bill

      AZ seems to retain its efficacy for somewhat longer than 4 months. Over here in the UK the latest talk seems to be that a third dose will not be necessary until after winter, but things change of course. I think that what seems to be key is the time between one dose and the second. In the UK it was 8 to 12 weeks in Israel half that. The latest thinking seems to be that within reason the longer the gap between the two jabs the better with 8 to 12 weeks being optimal.

      Taking Vit D seems to be a good move and, other than age, keeping the weight off seems to be a big factor as is keeping healthy generally.

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    Analitik

    Nitric oxide nasal spray cuts viral load reducing the infection severity for early onset CoviD

    Patients in the NONS [Nitric Oxide Nasal Spray] treatment arm demonstrated viral loads, as determined from PCR testing of nose and throat swab sampling, that were lower at days 2 and 4 by a factor of 16.2 than those on placebo, and symptom resolution was also found to be faster on NONS treatment than on placebo in this study.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8117664/

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    Kneel

    Timeless wisdom from C S Lewis (1948) – he speaks of atomic bombs, but iyt applies equally to COVID-19:

    “In one way we think a great deal too much of the atomic bomb. ‘How are we to live in an atomic age?’ I am tempted to reply: ‘Why, as you would have lived in the sixteenth century when the plague visited London almost every year, or as you would have lived in a Viking age when raiders from Scandinavia might land and cut your throat at night; or indeed, as you are already living in an age of cancer, an age of syphilis, an age of paralysis, an age of air raids, an age of railway accidents, an age of motor accidents.

    In other words, do not let us begin by exaggerating the novelty of our situation. Believe me, dear sir or madam, you and all whom you love were already sentenced to death before the atomic bomb was invented… It is perfectly ridiculous to go about whimpering and drawing long faces because the scientists have added one more chance of painful and premature death to a world which already bristled with such chances and in which death itself was not a chance at all, but a certainty.

    If we are all going to be destroyed by an atomic bomb, let that bomb when it comes find us doing sensible and human things—praying, working, teaching, reading, listening to music, bathing the children, playing tennis, chatting to our friends over a pint and a game of darts—not huddled together like frightened sheep and thinking about bombs. They may break our bodies (a microbe can do that) but they need not dominate our minds…”

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      Konrad

      Very wise words indeed.

      Fear is the mind killer.

      The problem faced by those seeking to exploit fear to end democracy is that they already tried with their Gorebull Warbling hoax. They ended up inoculating a large number of scientifically literate citizens against pseudo scientific fear.

      For those of us exposed to the climate wars, we are already inoculated against call to authoritiy arguments, censorship, deplatforming, vilification and social shaming.

      Look at all the tactics being deployed in the fight to terminate democracy in the name of medical emergency. The tyranny of media appoved “experts”. Could you slide a playing card between Fauci and Mann? The language of vilification: “Granny killer”, “anti-vaxxer”, “Covidiot”. No different than “holocaust denier”, “planet killer” and “anti science luddite”.

      Same people, same tactics. Same …., different bucket.

      It’s like Steve McIntyre seeing a mew “hockey stick” graph. He knows instantly that it is BS, and knows exactly where to look for the cheat.

      This is why the Fauci Flu scare is failing. A huge section of the public were already aware that Uniparty politicians were filthy liars and the Establishment Misleadia had the scientific credibility of used toilet paper. AGW sceptics had also endured 30 years of vilification without surrendering their defense of the scientific method.

      As I have previously written, the only people who bent the knee in fear were the “Midwits”. The most intelligent are the unvaccinated. Those that sought to rule by fear are now living in fear.

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    maryan

    I apologize if someone has already written this. The reason hospitals have run out of beds is because staff have been taken off to do tests and vaccinations. That is, it is a staffing issue NOT because of sick people. The Peter MacCallum in Melbourne is one such hospital. In addition, there are many empty beds because of what ‘may’ happen, not what has happened. If you do your sums, it is still something like only 0.1 percent of people tested are positive. I struggle to understand what would happen if we had a real pandemic of something like Ebola.

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    OldOzzie

    Sweden Gets It on COVID. Why Won’t the Rest of the World Pay Attention?

    What country has few Covid deaths per day, no lockdowns, and delicious meatballs?

    Sweden is kicking Covid in the crotch. Perhaps Australian authorities should stop beating their own citizens long enough to take a look at what Sweden is, and isn’t, doing. They aren’t locking down. They aren’t pepper-spraying 12-year-old girls who resist mask-mandate tyranny, and, unlike most of the world, they aren’t getting slaughtered by Covid.

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    redress

    Jo…..very interesting study just released….

    ” This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity.”

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf

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      OldOzzie

      Results:

      SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk
      for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously
      infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and
      February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic
      disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination
      (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was
      demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were
      previously infected.

      Conclusions:

      This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger
      protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the
      Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced
      immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and
      given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta
      variant.

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      Analitik

      Thanks redress. Gee Aye can take the figures quoted by OldOzzie and stick them into her “better numbers” file.

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    Hanrahan

    Some may know Dr Mobeen Syed AKA Dr Been. I find he gets too far down in the weeds for me but a vid he did a year ago popped up in which he discusses honey and nigella sativa as a prophylactic. I will research the best way to access NS.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOwa6-EOohI

    I no longer fret about the difficulty getting IVM. There seems to be many cheap supplements which combined must give a high level of resistance. Besides most of these should be part of your daily routine any way. You want to be healthy ALL the time, not just now.

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    RightOverLabour

    From the eminent Dr Malone….

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccine/94213

    The Pfizer COVID-19 mRNA vaccine was found to be associated with a threefold increased risk of myocarditis, according to a real-world case-control study from Israel.

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    Interested

    Many of the medical experts my wife and I have heard speaking at length about these COVID ‘vaccines’ believe the injections are at least part of the problem, not the solution.
    These experts include:
    1) Dr. Peter McCullough, a practising internist and cardiologist and Professor of Medicine at Texas A & M College of Medicine. He has broadly published on a range of topics in medicine with >1000 publications and >600 citations in the National Library of Medicine. His works have appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of the American Medical Association, Lancet, British Medical Journal and other top-tier journals worldwide. He has 35 peer-reviewed publications on the infection and has commented extensively on the medical response to the COVID-19 crisis.
    2) Dr. Dolores Cahill, PhD Immunology, tenured professor at the School of Medicine, University College Dublin(UCD). She was group leader of the Protein Technology Group at the Max-Planck-Institute of Molecular Genetics, Berlin, and is Professor of Translational Science at the UCD School of Medicine and Medical Sciences.
    3) Dr. Michael Yeadon, PhD Respiratory Pharmacology, former Vice President and Chief Scientist of allergy and respiratory research at Pfizer.

    Dr McCullough said the following:-
    (a) “COVID-19 is NOT spread asymptomatically. Only sick people give it to other people.”
    (b) “Asymptomatic people should not get tested. All we’re doing is generating false positives, creating extra cases, and creating extra concerns. The FDA never approved these tests for asymptomatic testing. There shouldn’t be a single person on earth that should undergo an asymptomatic test …people just ought to walk past those testing stations.”
    (c) “Natural immunity is robust complete and durable. There is no meaningful chance of having a second serious case of COVID. In fact, it’s never happened in a confirmed case so far in the world. Any of the purported cases that have come up have involved misinterpretation of a false positive PCR test. It doesn’t happen.”
    (d) “COVID-19, no matter what variant, is easily treatable at home. About 85% of hospitalizations and deaths are completely avoidable with early treatment. The only way people end-up in the hospital and have a miserable time is when they receive no treatment: they don’t get treatment or they are not offered treatment and they end up railroaded into the hospital after being sick two weeks at home.”
    (e) “Current COVID-19 vaccines are obsolete and should be considered unfit for human use. Patients are being hospitalised and getting sick despite having had the vaccines. The vaccines at this point in time have amounted to record mortality and injury and should be considered unsafe and unfit for human use.”

    Dr Cahill said: “There was and is no need for lockdowns. It is a hoax; if you boost immune systems, there is no section of the population that needs to be locked down. In 100 years of infectious disease control, we have never quarantined healthy people. There is no need for a drug or vaccine to be developed … There have been lots of clinical trials of the benefits of vitamins C & D, and hydroxychloroquine, so it is a crime against humanity that medical advisers and politicians have not advocated these. There is absolutely no need for, or benefit from, social distancing. There are only THREE things for which social distancing is appropriate:- (1) TB, (2) smallpox, (3) ebola. Masks – no need to wear one unless you already have the symptoms – it is the wrong thing to do. We all have lots of latent viruses, and the stress of the mask allows the latent viruses to emerge. Mandatory vaccination goes against human rights; is not supported by the evidence; and is unnecessary and ineffective compared to numerous other far better strategies.

    Dr Yeadon said: “You don’t need masks, they don’t work. Forget lockdowns, they never slowed transmission, which took place mostly in institutions like hospitals and care homes. You don’t need to be vaccinated by inadequately tested and somewhat dangerous, gene-based spike protein inducing proteins.”
    Regarding the so-called COVID variants, he said: “So let me just say, again, the variants are not different enough to represent a threat to us. You do not need to top up vaccines yet they are being made and the regulators have more or less waved them through. I’m very frightened of that. There’s no possible benign interpretation of this. I believe that they’re going to be used to damage your health and possibly kill you. Seriously, I can see no sensible interpretation other than a serious attempt at mass depopulation.”

    These statements and admonitions, echoed by a significant number of other highly qualified experts in the field, and other general medical personnel, have convinced my wife and me that essentially everything we hear from the WHO, the CDC, the mass media, and our politicians, is simply not true.
    There’s something seriously wrong. We’re being had!

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      RightOverLabour

      Yup. There has been a concerted effort to “factcheck” these doctors, by a company that has 1.8 Bil shares in the pharmaceutical industry…. Follow the money.

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      ozman

      Michael Yeadon is being pilloried for being honest. But what can we expect from so many deceptive, shameless, perpetrators of this heinous act against humanity. Tragically, too many were fooled and too many have been bought. The TGA just goes along with whatever Pfizer says and bans the use of therapeutics.

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      Lucky

      This is an excellent summary for policy makers as well as the public.

      I have a comment/question on point a) “.. not spread asymptomatically”.
      Has it not been established that the virus can be spread by those vaccinated even if they have no symptoms?
      Or is this my mis-reading?

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      Kalm Keith

      “Asymptomatic people should not get tested. All we’re doing is generating false positives, creating extra cases, and creating extra concerns.”

      Exactly.

      I remember back 65 years into the dim distant past; we were told that Chicken Pox is coming, you’ll get a few red spots, enjoy.

      Everyone in our age group got the pox. Those who didn’t get it that year had already had it the year before.

      Using the Chickenpox “Model” maybe we can make some predictions regarding CV19.

      But first some detail from Tawdry Anhydrous at the WHO;

      “The current population of Australia is 25,837,560 as of Tuesday, August 24, 2021, based on Worldometer elaboration of the latest United Nations data.”

      Now, using that data and the Chickenpox Model we are able to predict that Australia will eventually have a total of 25,837,560 “Cases” of Covid19.

      Further “modeling” predicts that there will be deaths from said CV19 and that these will be primarily in;

      Group 1 – the elderly with limited functional capacity who are waiting for that last straw.

      and

      Group 2 – the “compromised” who are already in difficulty with issues like Diabetes Type 2 and or alcoholism.

      Group 3 – the unlucky few who, for some reason or other, just get it.

      Ad dendum.
      I would like T. Anhydrous to explain to me why CV19 has such vastly different rates of death in different countries.
      For example, let’s compare Vietnam and Brazil whose populations are respectively 100 and 211 Million people.
      CV19 deaths in Vietnam 9,000 and Brazil 570,000.

      There are answers in there but I don’t think that politicians want us to explore that. Don’t question people who know what’s best for you.

      Just put your arm up and they’ll send the bill to our government.

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    […] Even 80% vaxed Australia could mean 25,000 dead, 270,000 with long covid. By Joanne Nova. […]

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    Stan

    Agreed. The vaxxines are useless.

    The big piece missing is treatment. Known antivirals like ivermectin with Vit D and zinc and antibiotics. Safe, effective and very cheap. Even if only 10% more effective than a placebo (but RCTs show it is a lot more effective than that), the benefit/cost ratio must be through the roof. If as effective as the RCTs suggest, we can end the pandemic like some Indian states have done.

    So why are we not doing this?

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    Ronin

    NSW, 1029 cases and 3 corpses. well done.

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  • #
    Peter C

    When I first looked this post I thought it was satire, especially the part about the modelling by the Doherty Institute!

    This is the sort of thing that I would expect from Professor Pantsdown at London University (who has been wildly wrong about everything).

    Doherty Institute is in the same category about Covid. Don’t forget that they designed their trial to prove that hydroxychloroquine does not work. Then they would not answer my questions about why they tested HyQ in that way.

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    ozman

    Quote: “…the conservative party in Australia has become the best friend of Big Pharma and Big Bureaucrats while The Labor Premiers are fighting for hard borders and state rights.”

    The fascists on one side and the communists on the other. The result is still the same. The cabal of bankers own them both.

    Although, I note Klaus Schwab’s lot, “…argue that governments no longer are “the overwhelmingly dominant actors on the world stage” and that “the time has come for a new stakeholder paradigm of international governance”. The WEF’s vision includes a “public-private” UN, in which certain specialized agencies would operate under joint State and non-State governance systems.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Schwab

    The UN takeover! A fascist global NWO.

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    Peter C

    The Ballad of Locky D by S J Patterson

    A commentary on our times with apologies to A B Patterson.

    A bit of fun for those with too much time on their hands.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPNYx1FP8Qk

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    Cautious Steve

    I agree Peter c I would be doubtful of anything from the Doherty institute, prof Peter Doherty has been super active on Twitter spruiking vaccines. [snip]

    [Just point out the conflicts of interest. _ jo]

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      Peter C

      Thanks Steve,

      I have had a lot of contact with Professor Peter Doherty (Nobel Prize).

      He has been a climate activist for many years, using his prestige to press the case (just like Attenborough) despite the fact that his credentials are not in the area in any way.
      Now he is promoting the Doherty Institute and everything they say.

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        another ian

        Did you happen to mention this word?

        “ultracrepidarian
        [ uhl-truh-krep-i-dair-ee-uhn ]SHOW IPA

        🎓 College Level
        adjective
        noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside the area of his or her expertise:”

        https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ultracrepidarian

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          Peter C

          Well No I did not even know the word until now!

          Thanks Ian.

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          Kalm Keith

          Also, for the very old;

          “ultradecrepidarian
          [ uhl-truh-dee-krep-i-dair-ee-uhn ]SHOW IPA

          🎓 College Level
          adjective
          noting or pertaining to a person who is old and infirm and falling apart.”

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    Jo, the modelling is crap. It predicts Australia will have a similar result after being vaccinated as Sweden had mostly before being vaccinated, but in a fraction of the time. You should know better than to post something relying on it. It’s analogous to the climate modelling which also doesn’t replicate reality.

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      Graham, The Swedes battled the original Wu flu not Delta. The Delta virus is estimated to be 2.3 times as deadly, three times the hospitalization rate, and spread more than twice as fast. 50% of Swedes live alone, meaning the whole country is effectively socially distancing all the time. Mobility data shows major reductions in movements. Vitamin D is fortified into food there. The Swedes should have done better than anywhere, but mismanaged things so badly they didn’t. I heard their hospitals didn’t get overcrowded because they didn’t admit anyone over 80.

      The Vax solution is being sold as an alternative that gives freedom, but without antivirals and Vitamin D it means months of ongoing lockdowns and restrictions, and while deaths are markedly reduced, they are still significant.

      The modelling here is a one line equation with all assumptions and variables listed in full with links to the references they use. It’s not like the climate models. I’m happy to debate which of their assumptions may be wrong and which variables they are missing. But this model is merely confirming what we already know — that 80% vax levels on their own will not stop the Delta virus from spreading quickly, or stop NSW hospitals being overwhelmed. Hospitals in NSW are almost overwhelmed already when only 0.15% of the population is infected with Covid.

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    Philip

    Everything Jo says in this article is right. I need say no more. I feel I am the only one who agrees with her.

    I can not believe the incompetence of Gladys and Morrison. To unleash the virus on a population of people with a border like we have is basically treason.

    I can not vote Liberal anymore.

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      Philip, thanks. If only the Labor party could provide a realistic alternative.

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      Tilba Tilba

      I agreed as well Philip.

      And on the same topic, A very informed-sounding epidemiologist (from ANU) was interviewed this morning. He was quite pessimistic about things overall.

      It’s his belief that vaccination + natural immunity will not be enough to stop the pandemic – and that it will involve behaviour changes and loss of previous activities.

      He cited Queensland, where full vaccination rates are about 25%, but hard borders, masks, and the closure of non-essential business has stopped the last outbreak – zero cases for three weeks.

      He then cited the UK, where vaccination rates are above the magical 80%, and for those over 70, above 95%, plus there is widespread natural immunity, leading to an overall immunity of in excess of 97% or so. But the UK has all the pubs open, and football matches with crowds, and so on.

      Yesterday they had 38,000 cases, 1100 hospital admissions, and 140 deaths. Vaccination is only just part of the steps required. He said hard borders and no crowd events were keys.

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    Tel

    No one accurately modeled the first wave in Australia that damped out surprisingly quickly despite completely wrong health instructions from our higher-ups … telling us to wash our hands all the time and don’t worry about aerosols because no way this is an aerosol virus. Completely wrong.

    No one was able to provide useful predictions when the Winter 2020 wave went through Melbourne.

    No one has the slightest clue how big this current wave in Australia and New Zealand is getting, and none of the modelers even expected it would pop up in New Zealand. Remember how New Zealand is doing all the right things but getting an accelerating spread anyhow … just link to me someone who predicted that.

    I’m not going to say I have a better model … but I’m smart enough to know what I don’t know and Australia’s very low number of deaths per population are a massive outlier as compared to world statistics. The first thing you should ask any modeler is to demonstrate they can account for that, and when they come up with “lockdowns” or similar, show them at least a dozen other countries (e.g. Philippines) with stricter lockdowns and worse deaths per capita.

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      The first wave in Australia hit at the end of summer with high Vit D levels and hot weather in many places. We locked down with very great compliance. Community spirit was “in this together” more than other lockdowns. It was before the politicization and division really hit.

      The virus is a cluster spreader, so some places we were just lucky there was no major superspreading event — like say South Korea with 5,000 infections from patient 31.

      I predicted last March that we could wipe it out “in weeks”. I wasn’t sure we would manage it.

      I don’t think it’s correct to say none of the modelers predicted it would break out in NZ. Anyone who has studied aerosol spreaders with an Ro of 6 – 9 would surely know that it was a possibility. The modelers and medicos though should have (or perhaps they tried) to fix obvious leaking issues at the border. It is very hard to keep out, but not impossible.

      That said, I know in Australia in at least one ICU unit the staff are only wearing N95 masks. Not respirators, which surprised me.

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    Tel

    The hospitalization rate for Delta is thus three times higher than the original Wuhan Flu. It’s bad. The Delta variant pumps up the viral load faster, so it swamps immune systems faster and spreads more easily.

    That doesn’t match most countries where the most recent wave had a lower death rate.

    https://epidemic-stats.com/coronavirus/canada

    Take a look at what’s happening in Canada and the infections accelerated around March 2021 with their third wave, but the deaths have been slowing down. They aren’t using any anti-virals, I agree it might be a good idea if they did use them, but as a scientific experiment it’s pretty untainted by any learning or adaptation on the part of the test subjects.

    I still say that the reason it has become more infectious is that most people don’t feel sick.

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      By the time the Delta variant arrived many nations (not here) already had a level of both natural and vaccine induced protection. Death rates in countries like India were hard to figure out, but it certainly looked like it hit a lot harder than wave one. Also Vietnam, Indonesia.

      But yes, many confounders. What was teh vax rate and infection rate in Canada?

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        The delta variant starzed in India and was fought with Ivermectin, successfull.
        Some states returned to Remdesivir and failed ’til now, the others continue with Ivermection, with reasons:
        Mouse-over the state for different states of India

        The COVID Crisis in India: an Interview with Dr Dhananjay Bakhle

        Dr Dhananjay Bakhle, a physician treating COVID patients but also leading medical research for a pharmaceutical company, has agreed to respond to our questions regarding the recent crisis in India. In March, we published the article “The Mystery Behind India’s Success in Flattening the Curve,” which he co-authored. While infections and mortality remained low, per capita, in the first wave, the recent rapid increase in cases and mortality has taken the country by surprise. In this interview, Dr Bakhle helps us understanding what is going on, and why some states appear to fare much better than others. He also offers practical suggestions / recommendations. (Note: the interview was done in writing, through email exchanges on April 23-29; some edits were done for readability purposes).

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        Interested

        From what I can make out, ‘Tel’ (Comment #64, above) is correct about variants.
        I quoted Dr Mike Yeadon here in Comment #53 and mentioned his qualifications and experience as former Chief Scientific Officer at Pfizer.
        With regard to this very question of variants, Dr Yeadon also had this to say:-

        “As a general rule, variants form very often, routinely, and tend to become less dangerous and more infectious over time, as it comes into equilibrium with its human host. Variants generally don’t become more dangerous.

        “No variant differs from the original sequence by more than 0.3%. In other words, all variants are at least 99.7% identical to the Wuhan sequence.

        “It’s a fiction, and an evil one at that, that variants are likely to “escape immunity”.

        “Not only is it intrinsically unlikely – because this degree of similarity of variants means zero chance that an immune person (whether from natural infection or from vaccination) will be made ill by a variant – but it’s empirically supported by high-quality research.

        “The research I refer to ( https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.27.433180v1 ) shows that people recovering from infection or who have been vaccinated ALL have a wide range of immune cells which recognize ALL the variants.

        “This paper ( https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266637912100015X )shows WHY the extensive molecular recognition by the immune system makes the tiny changes in variants irrelevant.

        “I cannot say strongly enough: The stories around variants and need for top up vaccines are FALSE.

        My background research suggests strongly that we cannot rely on the accuracy of the published statistics about anything to do with COVID-19.
        (a) The PCR test for example, run at cycles above 34, produces no corroborative positive culture results. By the time you get to 33 cycles, the accuracy rate is a mere 20%, meaning 80% are false positives. Beyond 34 cycles, your chance of a positive PCR test being a true positive shrinks to zero. At least up until very recently, the FDA and CDC recommended running amplification cycles at a rate (CT) of 40. The WHO recommended 45. This has led to enormous numbers of false positives, which have erroneously been labelled ‘cases’. For this reason, many experts say we don’t have a pandemic but, in fact, a ‘casedemic’.
        (b) The number of deaths attributed to COVID-19 has been seriously questioned also, with many of the so-called victims of the virus having died ‘with it’ rather than ‘of it’. This is at least partially the co-morbidities factor mentioned here by others. And even if COVID-19 were actually the only cause of death, how many people actually had to die? Perfectly safe and effective treatments were mostly not given.
        (c) The number of deaths and/or severe damage caused by the various gene-therapy ‘vaccines’ themselves runs into many thousands and has likely been very substantially underreported. In the past, very much lower numbers of casualties in trials of a new medicine or vaccine have resulted in the abandonment of the program. No such standards are being applied in this case. Dr Peter McCullough, for one, (see Comment #53 above for his qualifications) wants to know why!

        Many experts seem to believe the figures we have to work with are wrong. Real data is apparently not being released or publicised. And I’m told the same people who own the pharmaceutical companies also own the mainstream media (and probably a whole lot more besides). Once again, as with the climate deception, it looks like a case of ‘follow the money’ if you want to learn the truth. And just as with the climate lies, some people think the underlying agenda with COVID-19 goes beyond mere financial interest.

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    Good post Jo.
    However I am now so cynical I follow the money first.
    Lockdowns, were to prevent the healthcare system being overwhelmed,to buy us time until satisfactory protocols and treatments could be found…
    Well we bought that time at massive expense.

    But what did our governments actually do?

    Did yours build more intensive care units and train up and call out of retirement more medical staff?

    Did your public health officials follow treatments and chose one that works as the standard recommended treatment for persons sick with the designated disease?
    Did they identify a self test for quick accurate home use?

    For I have seen none of those things happen,now I am in Canada, so not fully observant of Australian realities,but Actions are the only truth we have when dealing with our governments,for their words are empty,meaningless babble.
    The actions I have seen,are massive spending on compliance officers,mass propaganda and lucrative “emergency” contracts to political friends..
    More treatment facilities?
    Has not happened.
    But that “Just two weeks” to save healthcare goes on and on and on..
    Longest two weeks I have ever lived.
    That time has not ben well spent.The Dread Covid Theatre of Fear has been a box office smash.
    The Covid-19 virus a wet squib..
    If this is “Pandemic” What is a bad flu year going to be?

    Seems to me Covid -19 hangs over Australia’s future as you have neither herd immunity,effective vaccines or a treatment plan..

    With help such as this,do we need enemies?

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    • #
      Interested

      Yes Rick. Thanks for the figures, which are EU member country figures only. Deaths and injuries for all European countries are likely double these ones.
      So we can be reasonably confident over 40,000 Europeans have so far been killed by the effectively untested gene-therapy ‘vaccines’ and nearly 4 million have been injured – nearly 2 million seriously.
      And the reporting systems are known to be grossly inaccurate, with real numbers often 50-100 times higher than those reported and recorded.

      In the U.S., a current lawsuit has a figure of 45,000 ‘vaccine’ deaths among Americans so far, with other estimates ranging up to some 600,000 and higher. The figures for injuries are likely orders of magnitude higher still.
      Several medical scientists and practitioners we’ve seen believe the ‘vaccines’ have set up their recipients for massive auto-immune reactions as and when they encounter coronaviruses in future. These medical people predict a wave of deaths among the ‘vaccinated’ running into tens or even hundreds of millions as the northern winter gets into full swing.

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    Zigmaster

    Looking at the UK and European data compared to the rest of the world in terms of protection the Astra Zeneca vaccine seems to prevent deaths and serious cases way better than Pfizer and other vaccines. When one looks at the large number of daily cases and the relatively small number of deaths I think the trend is clear. In relation to Sweden it is clear that herd immunity is the best vaccine of all. It also confirms that not only does the vaccines not help those who have had Covid already but may make things worse.
    What I see as the biggest problem is that societies including Australia will in fact impose vaccine passports to allow people to participate in most activities when the urgent need is to look for alternatives to vaccines such as antivirals. What I find frightening is that if as I suspect antivirals work the demonisation of them by media and politicians then what we may have witnessed is equivalent to a global ‘war’ crimes of a magnitude not seen since 1930s. When it is finally concluded that cheap antivirals and millions could’ve been saved who will be held to account?

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      not that l think any of the jabs are not poison but Pfizer spent way more money on the salesman and smear campaigns than the opposition
      look into the contracts countries have foolishly signed to get Pfizer
      sry but this is the best l can do in such a short time
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zoSSHx9QtA

      its funny how these so called vaccines are so good you have to be talked/forced into taking them LOL

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    Tim

    Take 12 mg of Ivermectin a week and never get Covid .

    But it is cheap so won’t happen

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/GtxN5If05vHs/

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    Dwayne

    Folks, this engineered bug is with us, forever now. Stop hiding under your beds and live life again.

    The following is an excerpt from “On Living in an Atomic Age” (1948) in C.S. Lewis Present Concerns: Journalistic Essays —

    “In one way we think a great deal too much of the atomic bomb. ‘How are we to live in an atomic age?’ I am tempted to reply: ‘Why, as you would have lived in the sixteenth century when the plague visited London almost every year, or as you would have lived in a Viking age when raiders from Scandinavia might land and cut your throat any night; or indeed, as you are already living in an age of cancer, an age of syphilis, an age of paralysis, an age of air raids, an age of railway accidents, an age of motor accidents.’

    “In other words, do not let us begin by exaggerating the novelty of our situation. Believe me, dear sir or madam, you and all whom you love were already sentenced to death before the atomic bomb was invented: and quite a high percentage of us were going to die in unpleasant ways. We had, indeed, one very great advantage over our ancestors—anesthetics; but we have that still. It is perfectly ridiculous to go about whimpering and drawing long faces because the scientists have added one more chance of painful and premature death to a world which already bristled with such chances and in which death itself was not a chance at all, but a certainty.

    “This is the first point to be made: and the first action to be taken is to pull ourselves together. If we are all going to be destroyed by an atomic bomb, let that bomb – when it comes – find us doing sensible and human things—praying, working, teaching, reading, listening to music, bathing the children, playing tennis, chatting to our friends over a pint and a game of darts—not huddled together like frightened sheep and thinking about bombs. They may break our bodies (a microbe can do that) but they need not dominate our minds.”

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    Jim Fairgray

    As well as Sweden there are many States in the US which have not locked down, I’m thinking of Florida, Texas, and S. Dakota but there are more, and have got along fine and not wrecked there economy. They are now being asked by Federal Govt. to help fund the mess of other States who managed affairs abominably! Also recall if you will that Covid spread through the White House, including the Donald, and people merely stayed home till the incubation time had passed.

    Now Sweden has a million plus immigrant population from the middle east with compromised health backgrounds which inflated Covid figures. This demographic also finds much employment in the low skilled rest home care sector and inadvertently spread the disease to the elderly in those homes causing an inflated death spike. This is well documented. The “Stay at home if you’re unwell, 2m distance” message was lost in translation.

    We are still not being informed of the down side of lockdowns, mental health, cancer and poverty. If you want a death count find out how Covid lockdowns have affected the likes of World Vision and Tear Fund working with the world’s poorest. Till now there has been tremendous success fighting world poverty.

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      Tilba Tilba

      As well as Sweden there are many States in the US which have not locked down, I’m thinking of Florida, Texas, and S. Dakota but there are more, and have got along fine and not wrecked there economy.

      Have you checked the Covid rates in these places … they are out of control. Of course you can have the economy going along “swimmingly” if you don’t care about a pandemic swarming through your community and your schools, and your hospitals going into overload. Did I really have to post something so obvious??

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    Rod

    Here’s a link to a pdf covering B and D group vitamins.

    Unravelling Vitamins as Wonder Molecules for Covid-19 Management via Structure-based Virtual Screening

    https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-144177/v1_stamped.pdf

    Maybe Jo should do an article on terrain theory or would that be far too heretical?

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    Destroyer D69

    Food for thought. Quadrant online.. I think this hits the nail squarely on the head…https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/public-health/2021/08/munchausen-syndrome-by-proxy-as-public-policy/

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    What initially put me on the alert is that the press talked about viruses (which I know very well from having done over 20 years of nuclear and climate studies. So, this which comes out of the magma I know). But here the word ‘new’ was used !!! New virus ’?? !! Wow !!

    For millions of years the glowing iron mass in the center of the earth has been pushing out billions of ferric nanoparticles charged with electricity for 3 weeks, and, are called “viruses” or “coronas”. But, to pretend that there is a ‘new virus’ (Spring-Summer-Autumn-Winter Collection), that asks to see and asks questions.

    But, this time, this new virus ’(now called covide19’) can by itself and for the first time in the history of the world, circle the Earth! Wow ! Even rabies, plague or cholera did not! (Forget Jules Verne’s ‘Around the World in 80 Days’, the ‘new virus’ travels at the speed of light !!! Hahaha!).
    But, as nobody had seen it (not isolated !!!) was immediately released a “vaccine” !! (while it takes 10 to 15 years to make one !!).
    And, moreover (because it is not over yet!) Injections will be done WITHOUT serology !! neither before nor after !!! Wow !! And… EVERYONE can bite their neighbor, no need to be a doctor or nurse anymore !! WOW ! WOW !!

    Is it a joke or what ??

    But, since the word ‘new virus’ was used at the beginning, and a nanodust only charged for 3 weeks, this ‘new virus’ was supposed to be gone in 3 weeks. But there, the exploit HAS happened with the word “eternal” !! H PUTAING !! He must have one of those fucking drums …

    Yes, but first of all there is no vaccine against a virus (charged nanoscopic dust breathed in and encapsulated by our immune defense for millions of years). There are only vaccines against germs. Because they microbes are ALIVE. And therefore develop diseases.

    So, it would not be a virus but a microbe (which would have circled the Earth). Yes, but a microbe, even invisible to the naked eye, is visible under an electron microscope. But he, even under the electron microscope remains… invisible !! HAHAHAHA!

    There, I feel that we are kidding our faces!

    But, rest assured, it does exist! (Here then!) Because in the absence of, it is esteemed! And so, only the lucky ones have it!
    Yes, but where it gets complicated is that this “covid19” attacks the natural variants (also called mutants) of our body since our birth. And, to lengthen the sauce, it destroys the immunity of all people who are inoculated !! And moreover, these same harmless variants become aggressive variants are expelled from the bitten bodies during his exhalations !!

    So the covide19 microbe detects is multiplying internally and is thrown out by all breathing people!
    But since it was forbidden to use remedies such as Ivermectin or Hydrochloroquine to defend themselves against it, the one who had it died! (in the days, weeks or months that follow!).

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    • #

      I suspect there is a language barrier here and something is changed in translation.
      Viruses are borderline life forms. ARguably just a complex chemical string of 29000 bases encased in a shell with spikes. They travel at the speed of aircraft. And even before planes, microbes and viruses did encircle the globe, though more at ship and camel-speed. See smallpox, measles, etc.

      Vaccines can be made overnight practically, and by the hundreds. What we can’t do quickly is test them. That’s what takes normally 5 years or more.

      It most definitely is a new virus, and yes, the suppression of antivirals is most definitely a scandal.

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    Bonjour Joanne !

    Les virus sont des nano-poussières électrique expulsées continuellement par le magma (et remontées à la surface des eaux par les productions de gaz).
    Il ne sont pas à confondre avec des microbes (bactéries) qui sont des VIVANTS.
    Les virus sont appelés généralement des ‘coronas’. Tandis que le ‘covide19’ est un solution d’addition de maladies graves des animaux. Mais, cette nouvelle maladie fabriquée en laboratoire n’est disponible qu’en seringues ! Vous êtes piqué ? Vous l’avez !
    Mais, la personne inoculée va répliquer son injection et va rejeter une partie des 40 mille milliards de nano-particules d’oxyde de graphène par seringues !! dans l’atmosphère autour d’elle. Elle deviendra donc contaminante grâce aux microbes injectés.

    60 % des injectée décèdent dans les 3 jours (source VAERS)
    https://huemaurice5.blogspot.com/2021/08/csi-n19-du-19-aout-2021-christine.html
    https://huemaurice5.blogspot.com/2021/08/les-mensonges-des-autorites-sanitaires.html
    https://huemaurice5.blogspot.com/2021/07/un-message-urgent-du-professeur.html

    —————-
    Traduction Google:

    Hello Joanne!

    Viruses are electrical nano-dust continuously expelled by the magma (and brought to the surface of the water by the production of gas).
    They are not to be confused with microbes (bacteria) which are ALIVE.
    Viruses are generally called ‘coronas’. While ‘covide19’ is an addition solution for serious animal diseases. But, this new laboratory-made disease is only available in syringes! Are you stung? You have it !
    But, the inoculated person will replicate his injection and will reject part of the 40 trillion graphene oxide nanoparticles by syringes !! in the atmosphere around it. It will therefore become contaminating thanks to the injected microbes.

    60% of those injected die within 3 days (source VAERS)
    https://huemaurice5.blogspot.com/2021/08/csi-n19-du-19-aout-2021-christine.html
    https://huemaurice5.blogspot.com/2021/08/les-mensonges-des-autorites-sanitaires.html
    https://huemaurice5.blogspot.com/2021/07/un-message-urgent-du-professeur.html

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      Yonason

      While viruses are not alive, they do contain proteins, RNA, and/or DNA, none of which could survive volcanic heat and chemicals.

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    Yonason

    I’ve tried posting this a couple of times. Here goes #3

    A lot of the incriminating facts were online on Jan 31, 2020.
    https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/01/31/logistical-and-technical-analysis-of-the-origins-of-the-wuhan-coronavirus-2019-ncov/
    A PhD Neurobiologist, linked in that post, carried the ball from there.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LlplnH3VYyc
    He is now on Twitch (to keep YouTube from banning him)
    https://m.twitch.tv/gigaohmbiological/home
    It was from him that I learned about…

    Robert Malone
    Geert Vanden Bossche
    David Martin
    Ryan Cole
    Reiner Fuellmich
    Mike Yeadon
    Peter McCullough
    Wolfgang Wodarg
    …and others…

    Here’s a fascinating expose by Brian Gerrish on the psi ops that Western governments are employing against us.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FAR4yuhcvyQ

    Here an Israeli Lawyer reveals how Israeli leaders are doing the same to Israeli citizens, destroying their health with the fake vaccine.
    https://brandnewtube.com/watch/vacinas-reiner-fuelmich-interviweing-israelli-lawyer-tamil-turgal_MkR72d8HlvJi2yZ.html

    Nearly the whole world has either gone insane, or is deliberately trying to harm the bulk of humanity for some nefarious goal – but I repeat myself.

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    Rolf

    Many write or say we need 80% or 90% or even 95% to reach her immunity. So how is it ?

    We have a virus which spread and R naught is 5-9. So let’s be positive and guess we may be lucky to keep it at 5.

    The formula is I = (1-1/R) this gives 1 – 0.2 = 0.8 fantastic it’s 80%

    So why are some people saying 90% or 95%.

    That’s Because the vaccine leaks, so the formula has to be changed a bit. It’s now I / Ve = 1 – (1/R)

    This is damaging. Because the vaccine is nowhere near 100% anymore. But let’s be nice and assume it’s 40%. Then we have to inject 0.8/0.4 = 2 = 200%

    How will this work ? 4 doses to everyone ? How about side effects ?

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      Lowell from Seattle

      Rolf: your exactly right. Herd immunity is a delusion. With this vaccine being so leaky and also losing efficacy at about half a year there is no way we will develop Herd Immunity through vaccination. I think this goal of 100% vaccination is to achieve maximum drug company profits. People that have recovered from Covid experience significantly worse side effects when they take the vaccine compared to the unrecovered. The question than becomes will booster shots cause worse and worse side effects among the vaccinated non-recovered? Another question is at four months should the double vaccinated get exposed to an active case of Covid in order to get real immunity?

      The other problem with a leaky vaccine and +50% vaccination is that it will force the virus to change its spike proteins until it breaks its bounds and spread like wild fire through everyone that does not have natural immunity.

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    Truthseeker

    Imagine a vaccine so safe you have to be coerced into taking it, for a disease so deadly you have to be tested to see if you have it.

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      Interested

      Ha ha!! A succinct summary. Well done!
      And the standard test doesn’t work anyway … except to give false positives. 99% of the ‘cases’ resulting from the PCR test would never have known anything about a disease pandemic if they’d never had the test.

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    Apoxonbothyourhouses

    A disappointing and negative read. Late but still welcome, has come an acceptance that Covid is forever and that zero Covid is impossible. Accepting that reality is the first step to Covid normal.

    The number of deaths from those who have had both vaccinations and are past the “wait” period and where recent deaths have been caused by Covid, is tiny. Caused as opposed to with Covid.

    For the vast majority of Australians there is no better plan at present. There are some 2 million vaccinations each week and there is no indication, yet, of any plateauing.

    NSW is the leading state and will pass 70% 1-jab status next week. 70% 2-jab about the 23rd October so eight weeks away. The NSW Premier wants to get re-elected so you can bet your last dollar that as many restrictions as possible will be removed for those with 2-jab status.

    Anyone choosing not to get vaccinated has the right to do so but that won’t and I’d argue shouldn’t, entitle them to the same protocols as those who have. Why should it?

    Nationally 70% 2-jab won’t come till about the end of October.

    That’s as good as it is going to get and we will have to learn with whatever ICU problems unfold.

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    Steve Keppel-Jones

    Jo said “No virus means no lockdown. ”

    That’s not quite accurate, Jo. “No virus” is a fairy tale. “No lockdown” is what happens in a free country. There is no other relationship between these two things.

    Probably more accurately, “no virus” is the default assumption, since apparently no one has bothered to isolate one of these things properly in decades. If you can’t isolate it, you have no idea what you’re actually dealing with. You certainly can’t assume “positive PCR test” -> “virus”.

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