JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Thursday Open Thread

8.3 out of 10 based on 18 ratings

427 comments to Thursday Open Thread

  • #
    Robert Swan

    All along, the COVID-19 alarm has reminded me of the Sydney water crisis of the late ’90s. In both cases, you’d hardly have known there was a “crisis” if it weren’t for the media. The 1998 “crisis” was a fizzer. I don’t know anybody who boiled their water. Unfortunately, the 2020 “crisis” has gone gangbusters.

    Sydney is now getting near 1000 “cases” a day, but how many really have COVID-19? The test involves swabbing the back of the nose to pick up some epithelial cells, which are then run through a PCR process and, if incriminating DNA fragments are detected, we have a positive.

    My 3rd grade teacher, Mrs Graham, told us all that it was important to breathe in through our noses; that the nasal passages filtered the air on its way to the lungs. It appears she wasn’t making it up. Here’s a quote from a Nature article:

    Staphylococcus aureus resides in the noses of 1 in 3 people without causing a problem. MRSA — an S. aureus strain resistant to many antibiotics — is found in 2 in 100. In a small percentage of cases, the bacterium escapes to the bloodstream, causing infection. MRSA kills 11,000 people annually in the United States alone.

    So the swab goes right past all these nasal contents. Do you not think it possible — probable even — that, along the way, the swab will pick up virus particles that have been caught by the nose, having *failed* to enter the body?

    It’s like sampling from the outside of a car’s air filter to decide whether dirt has got into the engine. That Nature quote siggests we could get a whole staph-aureus panic going by simply using the same pattern of testing we have for SARS-CoV-2.

    Isn’t the nose the *perfect place* to create false positives?

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    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      You do understand that the swab is actually sampling from the upper part of your respiratory tract and is collecting the ACE2 enzyme, not nasal contents and not epithelial cells.

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      • #
        R.B.

        That is beyond stupid. All people have the ACE2 enzyme.

        Your article refers to cells with ACE2 receptors that are most likely to be infected, being in high concentration in the nasal cavity. Robert is referring to the person not actually having caught the disease even though testing positive, ie is asymptomatic and not contagious.

        Is it automatic that a tested person will catch the disease? I don’t know but show some real skills and investigate it.

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        • #
          Tel

          Classic Peter Fitzroy … some day he will get something right and when that happens the lights will dim, clocks will stop ticking, birds will fall silent and a creeping chill will seep up out of the Earth.

          I’m not all that worried.

          130

      • #

        That is incorrect. It collects whatever is there and PCR detects the genetic material of the virus, if it is present.

        65

        • #
          R.B.

          What is incorrect?

          I would like to rebut you, agree or clarify, but I don’t know what is supposed to be incorrect. I haven’t talked about a special swabbing technique but the choice of where to swab in order to best pick up on the presence of virus.

          90

          • #

            nesting 101. I am responding to Peter.

            It is not collecting an enzyme (though the PCR might target the genetic material of that enzyme) and it is collecting, even if inadvertently, nasal contents including epithelial cells.

            72

          • #
            Robert Swan

            Gee Aye is disagreeing with Peter Fitzroy, not you. Look at the indent level.

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            • #

              I really like that this blog, unlike some others, has the indent.

              82

              • #
                Annie

                So do I GeeAye.

                61

              • #
                Robert Swan

                Me too. Wouldn’t mind if it gave a few more pixels to each level. My other wish would be to abolish the thumbs, but I’m probably in a minority on that one.

                18

              • #
                Ted1

                Robert, there’s my chance to give an intentional red thumb. The Red Thumb is a stand out feature on this blog. Many the time I have wished for it on another site.

                It’s a bit frustrating when you discover that you can’t withdraw an accidental red thumb, so just don’t spread oyur thumb too far.

                30

              • #
                Robert Swan

                That’s ok Ted, I didn’t expect much agreement. Special thanks for commenting. I had expected no greens (people who think like me don’t click the thumbs), a fair number of reds, and no written responses. So much for my predictions.

                To me, the thumbs add very little, but they encourage two sorts of comment I don’t like. Firstly, there are the people who relish getting red thumbs. Here, I’m thinking more of the likes of “Bill in Oz” than of the resident troll. Then there are the people who adopt strange posting habits designed to get an abundant harvest of greens. I don’t know why — perhaps Jo gives such commenters a better deal on the chocolates. I’d rather see well laid out arguments. Are the thumbs really any more than the gold and silver stars the teacher used to give out in kindy?

                24

              • #
                Peter C

                My other wish would be to abolish the thumbs, but I’m probably in a minority on that one.

                Actually I like thumbs. I don’t give red thumbs myself but I do give lots of greens.
                I would rather get 10 red thumbs than no response. At least 10 people read my comment.

                51

              • #
                Robert Swan

                Peter C,

                At least 10 people read my comment.

                Probably true in your case, but I’m confident some people click the red for Gee Aye or Peter Fitzroy without having read the comment. And lately I’ve noticed that RickWill gets multiple reds on his perfectly reasonable comments on subjects like renewable energy which, I’m pretty sure, is due to his less popular position on COVID-19.

                61

          • #
            R.B.

            Apologies, Gee Aye. It looks indented on the phone because you have a picture rather than one of the default avatars.

            10

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          I stand corrected, I was using the info in the link, but I admit that I did not evaluate it against other sources.

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          • #
            RossP

            Peter, all sampling is not the same. I thought everyone had the swab pushed right up into the back of the nose, as your comment implied.
            But I was in WA earlier this year and had to get a test done towards the end of the 14 day quarantine ( I was allowed under the rules, to quarantine in a residential home). I got the test done at a hospital testing center. The procedure was to wipe the swab on the inside of both of my cheeks and then the swab wiped the inside of each nostril (ie. just inside the nose).

            10

    • #
      Klem

      Of course, the swab picks up Carrona viruses, dust, pollen rhynoviruses, bacteria, influenza viruses and who knows what else. But if they happen to spot a few covid-19 viruses amoung all of the other crap, even if you’ve had a flaming car crash you stil died of Covid-19. Neat huh?

      230

    • #
      R.B.

      I became seriously ill the year before the scare. I wasn’t diagnosed – as a typical young male, I just assumed a little gastro and waited for it to go.

      I had explosive diarrhoea if I ate anything, so I ate half a pear and half a bowl of cereal for almost a week. Kept going to uni, the pub and playing park soccer. Lost about 10 kg but got over it just as I thought I might need to go see the doctor.

      I’m not sure many people got it but I suspect a lot more than reported, and some would have needed hospitalisation.

      PS – losing weight like that tends to get reversed quickly, plus some.

      101

      • #
        Chad

        RB, Are you now assuming that you had a form of Covid ?
        Up until this year, i would likely have had the same approach as you to a dose of diarrhoea , infact in the past i have had much worse,…constant vomiting, unable to eat, for several days,..no treatment and recovered eventually ok.
        BUT this year, whilst on a camping trip, i had a mild dose of diarrhoea which i again ignored (camp food !) until a sudden queasy/vomiting event made it obvious to some fellow campers (doctors) that something needed to be done…..even though i felt fine again…..within 4 hours i was in a hospital receiving IV antibiotics and multiple fluids…then air medivac’d (RFDS) to a regeonal ER facility where a blood infection (strepA) was diagnosed …7 days of IV antibiotics needed to fix it.
        Without rapid treatment , infections of that sort can be fatal.
        So now i dont ignor what might seem common symptoms, ..especially when good medical support is readily available,..Self diagnosis can be a high risk choice.

        41

      • #
        Broadie

        You are the Numero Uno, Ichi ban san, The Chosen One etc.

        Congratulations, the contact tracing team is working their way to eventually find you. Sorry for the slight delay, the fact they are eligible for study leave, compassionate leave, bereavement leave , stress leave, holidays, maternity/ paternity leave, time in lieu, etc does not necessarily slow things up in the swamp, they are dedicated professionals.

        They are coming for you!

        You are going to get the ‘Clot Shot’

        or you had the Kissing Disease, are you at Uni?

        50

      • #

        Wife had something like that. Tested negative for covid. Went doctor who said call ambulence and get to hospital-fluid on lungs, some sort of flu and pneumonia. Hospital gave some anti inflametries and sent home. She got worse (wrong drugs which caused liver problems). Again called ambulence put into isolation room, again tested negative for covid then could transfer to private hospital who called immunologist specialist. All treatments changed and on road to recovery. Health Departments and public hospitals have problems. The right treatment should be priority before vaccine. I and wife have had double dose of AZ and flu shot0

        41

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Good news. Hope she makes a full recovery soon.

          20

        • #
          Analitik

          Sadly, all other health concerns have been sidelined in the CoViD panic. Excess deaths, including suicides from the isolations, will increase even as CoViD “cases”, hospitalizations and deaths fall due to lack of diagnosis and treatment for all other conditions.

          In less developed regions and countries, this effect is even worse.

          30

    • #
      Chris

      And it’s all put in the spin dryer for 40 cycles.

      70

      • #
        PeterS

        That’s right. In fact the test is not fully reliable according to the CDC itself. After all it’s not a test for the COVID-19 itself, only for COVID-xx fragments. So, it’s to be expected a certain percentage of the COVID positive tests are false. The question is how much? We’ll probably never know.

        80

    • #
      Brenda Spence

      How about this then. Turns out that the PCR test could be just picking up cold viruses. There is a link to the CDC instruction paper for laboratories and there it is on p 41 of 80 pages, I found it myself.

      https://www.citizensjournal.us/breaking-cdc-fda-faked-covid-testing-protocol-by-using-human-cells-mixed-with-common-cold-virus-fragments-pcr-tests-are-merely-detecting-the-common-cold/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_AExNlKujbMELa498Co1hSk_T1saoABVkJSds9VNnpQQ-1629852562-0-gqNtZGzNAuWjcnBszQd9

      If this is true, how many false positives have we had?

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      • #

        If this is true, how many false positives have we had?

        None due to cold viruses. There is a huge database of “cold viruses” incling corona viruses. The primers used in the PCR tests cannot amplify their genetic material.

        There are trillions of sequences in genbank and the primers* cannot amplify anything.

        *partial matches abound for individual primers as would be expected by chance but none for both primers oriented at the correct distance apart with the melt characteristics observed for covid. For that to happen by chance would require chances somewhere in the realms 1:googol.

        [Gee Aye knows this test. I’m grateful he is answering questions. I agree with this response. – Jo]

        69

        • #
          Robert Swan

          And all that is what reminds me so much of the Sydney water crisis: we have a new and wonderfully sensitive test that indicates beyond question the presence of a pathogen. Unfortunately, in both cases they say nothing about whether people are sick, or will become sick.

          80

          • #
            • #
              Robert Swan

              Thank you.

              Apparently we agree that this nasal-swab PCR test only confirms the presence of the virus in the environment. Would you agree that calling these positive tests “cases” of COVID-19 is misleading? Since Jo endorses your views on this test, could you tell me what test you think should be used to confirm a COVID-19 diagnosis?

              70

              • #

                It is the medical profession that chooses to call them cases. I agree with them that it is best to be conservative.

                02

              • #
                Robert Swan

                Gee Aye,
                That is an evasion. I asked for your view on a test to confirm a diagnosis. We’ve already established that the nasal swab thing isn’t conclusive.

                As for “conservative”, I’ve smiled at that word’s split personality for years. A cancer surgeon can be conservative by cutting out the bare minimum to minimise damage to the surrounding tissue, or he can be conservative by resecting a wide margin around the obvious tumour to be sure of removing all the cancerous cells. We’re all conservatives now.

                40

              • #

                I like that surgeon story. I think I’ll use that somewhere. And I take your point.

                I will evade because this is beyond the limit of my knowledge regarding the clinical value. I wont evade on the epidemiology though. Positive results should be taken seriously for tracking the spread of the virus.

                10

              • #
                Robert Swan

                Glad you like the surgeon story. Use it freely and think kindly of me when you do.

                I partly agree on your epidemiology position. The new test does help to see where the virus is. No doubt useful, but it’s not tracking the disease; it’s microbiology, not epidemiology. As I pointed out at the top of this thread, S.Aureus lives harmlessly in lots of people’s noses. Can the SARS-CoV-2 virus do the same? Who knows? But it would seem prudent to calibrate this new epidemiological input against tried and tested ones — get a handle on how many have the virus in their noses vs. how many have it in their blood.

                00

        • #
          Broadie

          So Zero errors in 50 cycles?
          Why did Kary Mullis who knows this test say, the technique should not be used in diagnosis as, “you could find almost anything in anybody?”

          130

          • #
            Richard

            The World Health Organization were recommending cycles for of 45 and over which seems very high. Can that be because of the desire to produce as many positive results as possible and thereby provide the basis for the false assumption that a large number of infections have been detected? In July 2020, Anthony Fauci was on a podcast where they speak about the PCR tests and how a positive test using a cycle threshold of greater than 35 is essentially worthless. Fauci uses the phrase “replication incompetent” which basically just means junk (see below for the clip with Fauci talking about how the PCR test is useless above a cycle of 35).

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Vy6fgaBPE=260

            110

          • #

            Broadie. What you wrote is incorrect and misleading.

            01

            • #
              Broadie

              Please explain GA.
              I am quoting Kary Mullis.

              The primers used in the PCR tests cannot amplify their genetic material

              AS Jo assured, this is an accurate statement.

              As there is a good chance was my statement!

              So Zero errors in 50 cycles?

              My estimate using the calculator is there is 1.126 quadrillion molecules that could be generated from correctly selected bits of DNA, not quite as you say a googol though. A fairly Darwinian chance of a replicating error in those numbers I would suggest.

              To attempt to understand what you are saying. I understand that to be the chance of a false positive is infinitely small as the process is specific for the particular genetic sequence and the replication simply acts to amplify this signal. Therefore any comments by a Chief health Officer in diminishing a contact due to a low CT threshold could be construed as misleading.

              Now can you help me with my other problem, other than the absence of Autopsy reports to support the deaths ‘with Covid19’, in fact an apparent complete lack of interest from those who should be concerned.
              I am not a SARS-COV-2 denier however I find that this virus in all its variants has remained at about %5 of those presenting for Pneumonia and Influenza testing in Washington State with the ‘Delta’ variant currently at about %100 of those positive for the virus. Why is this So? and why does this not correlate with mortality? And for a matter of interest where are the Flu deaths?

              00

              • #

                Well Mullis died years before the pandemic so I’m not sure what you mean.

                Your calculations are incorrect too. Try 4^20 for each primer then they must be present near each other all by chance with about 4^100 or so for the bases in between that give a characteristic melt curve (this is also why false positives are easy to detect).

                I am not medically qualified and have no idea (nor interest tbh) about the processes that take place postmortem.

                00

              • #
                Broadie

                Dear GA,
                This is what is known as a side step.

                I am not medically qualified and have no idea (nor interest tbh) about the processes that take place postmortem.

                So let us repair the damage and return from Scientism to science.

                I don’t agree with Gee Aye on many things, but I mostly do on genetics and immunology and I’m grateful for the comments. Bearing in mind, for what it’s worth – My hons degree was in genetic research. IF GA were spinning junk or cherry picking I feel well equipped to spot it.

                You are locked in a thread that is in my opinion is not fair to Jo and her contribution to science.

                Let us start again.
                What is the mRNA gene sequence that defines Sars-Cov-2 and what is the test for this genetic sequence. Brand and instruction manual please?

                What defines a death by Covid19?
                Please list the symptoms and how the diagnosis is confirmed.

                What defines a death by pneumonia?

                What defined a death by Influenza in 2019?

                What defined a death by Corona Virus in 2019?

                Let us start comparing apples to apples instead of wandering off to a obtuse rabbit hole about %100.

                Start from here. China has about 5000 dead in 2 years. This does not constitute a normal pandemic

                10

    • #
      M Allinson

      Since these respiratory viruses begin their campaign with a bivouac in the nasal/sinus area, like an army preparing its campaign, they are most vulnerable to attack.

      A Jewish company has recently launched production of a nasal spray for this purpose:

      Enovid, a spray developed in Canada by SaNOtize and manufactured in Israel has been found to reduce viral loads in confirmed COVID-19 cases by 95% in 24 hours and 99% in 72 hours

      https://www.jpost.com/health-science/anti-viral-nasal-spray-effective-against-covid-19-673481

      I believe that an even cheaper alternative would be to use a 1-3% hydrogen peroxide nasal spray – hydrogen peroxide is naturally produced by the defensive mucosa in this region so it’s extremely compatible, at low strengths, with our own biology.

      Also, this is a fail-safe potential prophylactic, so why not consider using it – I do.

      70

    • #
      Tel

      So the swab goes right past all these nasal contents. Do you not think it possible — probable even — that, along the way, the swab will pick up virus particles that have been caught by the nose, having *failed* to enter the body?

      Yes, that’s a mechanism of PCR test false positive, but if the virus was there then it MIGHT be also inside your system even if you show no symptoms or hardly any symptoms. Anyone can be tired for a day now and then … that counts as a mild symptom. Anyone could have the occasional cough or tickle in their throat and that also counts as a mild symptom.

      In the USA they refuse to do any more tests and presume that if they see any positive then you are a “case” and the weirdest thing is they also presume that after 14 days you are cured! They never do a followup test.

      In Australia they do further tests until you test negative.

      The other mechanism of false positive is if you really had COVID some time back, you are past the worst of it and still shedding some virus RNA material. It’s difficult to determine exactly when a person is no longer infectious, and the PCR tests are cranked to high sensitivity so they presume you are infectious if they find anything at all.

      There are also mechanisms for false negative if the virus has settled deep in the lungs and doesn’t show up in the nose. It can also settle in the gut lining.

      What most people fail to come to grips with is that this is the first worldwide PCR testing for any virus in the history of humanity. No one knows what a normal virus spread really looks like, it’s never been measured before.

      70

      • #
        Robert Swan

        Thanks Tel. That agrees pretty well with the picture I had formed in my head, and you’ve fleshed out some of the details. Your last paragraph is exactly why I liken it to the Sydney water “crisis”: when you measure something that was never measured before, everything will be unprecedented.

        30

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The thing I think is odd, is that while you might have viral load in your nose, it doesn’t always translate to illness.

        Yes youre exposed to it and yes its on you, but it doesn’t guarantee you will develop it.

        By the same reasoning, every vaccinated person should be forced to self isolate for 2 months to ensure they dont spread it in the community because of leaky vaccines. As we are seeing in Israel, at least 50% of cases in hospital are fully double tapped…er….double vaccinated.
        Or is it triple now?
        Quadruple?

        And the vietnam oxford paper that showed 250x higher viral loads and spreading the virus to other vaccinated people and patients.

        30

      • #
        Stuart

        A huge database of DNA samples harvested by governments as well.Wonder if they could find a use for all of those DNA records of a large proportion of the population?

        20

  • #
    another ian

    More help

    “Misconfigured Microsoft Apps Expose 38 Million Sensitive Records Including Contact Tracing”

    https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2021/08/24/misconfigured-microsoft-apps-expose-38-million-sensitive-records-including-contact-tracing/

    50

    • #
      sophocles

      That’s why I don’t use any MS software at all ever.

      Some programs don’t even need to be “misconfigured” — they’re “mismanufactured.”

      60

  • #
    • #
      PeterS

      Good video. Goes to show how our governments have gone too far already, some states worse than others. Overall they are all showing signs of megalomania.

      60

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        It’s a vaccine death spiral.

        But it appears the “vaccines” were designed to work like ant poison…the ants pickup the poison thinking its food and take it back to the nest…..vaccinated people walk around and appear to now shower the community in the virus….making sure you have a never ending “crisis”.

        Same effect.

        20

  • #
    RickWill

    Victorian school children excelled in the 2021 Australia wide NAPLAN test. The Victorian school children spent 28 weeks working from home over the period since the introduction of learning from home in 2020.
    https://neoskosmos.com/en/208142/victorias-students-are-naplan-superstars-despite-28-weeks-of-remote-learning/

    In NAPLAN scores, Victoria ranked first in all subjects across all year levels except year 9 writing, following the nationwide test conducted in May.

    From Federal Minister Alan Tudge:

    “The results also show a resilience among young Australians and they are testament to the hard work of teachers and parents who are supporting learning at home.

    010

    • #
      Peter C

      That reminds me of the story about the Israeli doctors strike. The national death rate went down!
      The story is probably apocryphal.

      160

      • #
        RickWill

        My wife spent a lot of time at school during our boys’ primary school years. She was on the P&C, spent a couple of days each week in the school shop and very involved in classroom activities as well as assisting on the school camps. She was in a position to nominate any teacher she did not want involved in the boys’ education.

        I think it is important that parents are involved in their children’s schooling. One of the features of home learning is that it has forced the parent’s involvement and many had the time available to get involved more than they otherwise would. It also gives parents more appreciation for the value of good teachers.

        I have not seen the dynamics of home learning but I can see potential for it being valuable in a whole lot of ways. It is good to have parents involved in school activities and good for teachers to have more interchange with parents.

        Not many teachers are in a position to stand up to propaganda on topics like “Climate Change”.

        With respect to the Israeli doctors, maybe they needed a doctor to sign death certificates. Could be the bodies were dealt with with paperwork done later.

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        • #
          Peter C

          4 red thumbs!

          Israeli Doctors? I think the point was clear. Were they actually helping?

          Same with the teachers,

          11

      • #
        Tides of Mudgee

        Peter C, I don’t think the story is apocryphal as described in this link. They even refer to two strikes with the same outcome. ToM

        https://healthwyze.org/reports/502-death-rates-drop-when-doctors-go-on-strike

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        • #
          Peter C

          Thanks Tides of Mudgee,

          I am not too sure about your source but this was startling!
          “The longer the doctors’ strike continued, the more the death rate fell. In some locations, the death rate dropped by an astounding 50%. Unfortunately, the doctors eventually stopped their strike, and the mortality rates returned to normal again.

          30

    • #
      Strop

      Naplan is a comparison or benchmarking against a low standard in Aus.

      It’s great though that many have reached that standard and well done to the parents who juggled working and teaching at home.

      40

      • #

        Look, I know this is only anecdotal wrt the NAPLAN test, but I asked my grand daughter about it during her schooling years, and that was during my time in Rockhampton.

        She told me that the teachers specifically teach ‘the test’ to their students, and in the days leading up to the actual sit down and do the actual test, the teachers would do a run through of the test. Any student who did not perform well was directed to stay home on the day of the test.

        When I asked her again the following year, the reply was ….. “Poppy, I told you this last year.”

        Tony.

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        • #
          Graeme#4

          Reminds me of the time when I was a test team manager. One bright spark dreamed up the idea to decrease the software folk’s recorded but failure rate was to ask the test team to pre-test the software, so that the software folks could fix the faults before the offical software test cycle.

          00

    • #
      Ronin

      Better results in spite of teachers, not because of them.

      140

    • #
      GlenM

      It probably tells you that home instruction dy one or both parents might be better than being taught in a school environment. Over 50 years ago I found out that individual enquiry reaped the benefits.

      40

    • #
      ghl

      Could it be that the brightest are held back by normal school? They need home schooling?
      Seems obvious.

      40

    • #
      Vicki Sanderson

      MANY years ago when I was a young child, my parents moved to a farm in a (then) isolated area. There was a “one teacher” school, but in the first year of our arrival, there were insufficient numbers to warrant a teacher. So I missed a full year of schooling. I did have some “Correspondence” schooling (now called “remote learning”) & lessons were given by my 14 year old sister.

      Did it permanently damage my education? Apparently not since, despite that, and 2 years of schooling in a little school where the teacher taught all Grades 1-6, I progressed to high school & a university education.

      I think too much has been made of the supposed educational deficit from home schooling during lockdowns.

      However, the psychological effect of the hysteria regarding the virus itself, will be much more damaging.

      40

  • #
    R.B.

    Not related to climate but the hijacking of the ABC by the left.

    Inside SAS drinking culture: Nude Twister with strippers, guns and ‘getting away with it’

    These people like to pretend that Stalin was unjustifiably maligned.

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    • #
      Stuart

      The ABC has declared war on the SAS, The enquiry cleared the soldiers of any wrongdoing so the ABC run several stories against our soldiers in the same week. Funny how an ABC employed Afghan reporter was turned away from Kabul airport by Aussie soldiers the same week, he had all the right documentation but the squaddie sent him packing.
      Don’t mess with the SAS.

      50

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      The Australian Bolshevik Collective….

      makes sense….

      20

  • #
    RickWill

    The Random Energy (RE) proponents have a distasteful new acronym to digest PRRO, (Physical Retailer Reliability Obligation). This is an on-demand capacity payment that retailers will be obliged to pay for guaranteed firm capacity.

    Renew is scathing of this new scheme as it will support fossil fuel capacity:
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/esbs-capacity-payments-for-coal-and-gas-may-cost-3-2-billion-a-year-guess-who-pays/

    In effect, electricity retailers will have to pay generators for simply being available to generate energy in peak demand periods such as dinner time – but not for actually turning on their plants and generating electricity.

    Retailers will enter into contracts to buy “capacity certificates” from generators to make up the retailer’s share of a 1 in 2 year peak in power demand.

    This is getting closer to RE actually being a fossil fuel substitute rather than useful generator. The PRRO will pay for a good portion of the capital cost of new fast response fossil fuel plants and add to the revenue stream for existing coal generators. It should also support the cost of batteries.

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    • #
      Analitik

      People seem to be shooting the messenger here. RickWill is reporting on the stupid situation of subsidies for fossil fuels to support the subsidized renewabubbles – capacity payments.

      The batteries then need to compete economically with then thermal plants

      Why the red thumbs?

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      • #
        wal1957

        Agreed.
        In regard to the report. Why should the retailers be paying for the backup generators? This will only result in increased costs to the consumer. We lose again!
        The ‘unreliables’ should be required to pay for the backup. They are responsible for the shortfall.

        140

    • #
      Ronin

      Surely this would serve consumers better it the generators signed up to be ‘capacity backups’, and only get paid if and when they had to intervene.
      Then again, maybe not.

      20

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        ghl

        Ronin
        Who would gamble on investing in a diesel genset if it’s payback is out of your control. This tarriff pays for a genset to just sit there. Good investment.
        This is a problem of a rich society, leeches cooperate with the finest government money can buy.
        We’re screwed.
        Snowy 2 will be a gigantic drain on the grid, as will all storage.
        We are well past the point of diminishing returns, the deterioration of the grid will keep accelerating.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    I posted this in the last thread but then this one soon started so I am reposting this for comments:

    Here’s a question on what a strategy should be if using antivirals and no quackzines, or at least giving people an option of either the quackzine or an antivirals if some sort of prophylactic treatment is made mandatory.

    Apart from protecting the vulnerable such as elderly, obese and immune compromised; for those that use antivirals, should they take them prophylacticly and never develop an infection and thus no antibodies or should they allow themselves to get infected and then immediately take antivirals thus both developing antibodies and then quickly ridding oneself of the virus? Or a third strategy would be to take a very low dose of antivirals so as to give partial protection but also a low level infection that will allow antibodies to develop.

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      Lance

      Taking antivirals will not prevent an infection, only ameliorate the cytokine response so that the immune system has time to deal with the infection. Natural immunity will be the end result.

      The strategy ought be to take prophylactic dosage of IVM and/or HCQ+Zn and add the azithromycin if symptoms occur and use budesonide or Pulmicort inhaler for serious reactions, but do all of this within 5 days of symptoms.

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      • #
        Analitik

        Some antivirals (most? all?) actually impede the reproduction of viruses that they affect.
        It is anti-inflammatories and steroids that ameliorate the cytokine response, preventing the immune system damaging the body.

        I would say the optimal preventative (on top of good basic nutrition incl zinc and vitamin D) is HCQ fortnightly and then IVM and maybe azithromycin at early onset of infection with the steroids used if the disease worsen. Then call the ambulance if it continues to progress.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    The Australian MSM such as Their ABC is coming out strongly against Ivermectin and the TGA (Australia’s equivalent of the FDA and equally incompetent) are “concerned” about Ivermectin and also a spike in Ivermectin imports.

    (E.g. see https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/tgas-covid-19-self-medication-warning-as-ivermectin-imports-spike/ar-AANC5mS ).

    Australia being once before at the time of settlement and currently in the two biggest states now, a not-so-free-range prison and extreme Nanny State, I am terrified Ivermectin will go the way of HCQ and it will be banned for COVID treatment with severe, even criminal penalties for doctors who prescribe it as for C-19 in Queensland and illegal in all other states.

    Get your IVM supplies now!

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  • #
    PeterS

    Elephant in the room time again.
    Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines: around 90 to 97% –> only applies to the Alpha strain. For Delta and others it would be far lower. Also, given we are told the effectiveness of the vaccines start wearing off after about 6 months for a variety of reasons (hence the call for booster shots) the effectiveness even against the Alpha strain would be far lower.
    Effectiveness of natural immunity: around 98 to 99.9%

    Look at it this way. Let’s say there was a vaccine that had an effectiveness of say 70% over the long term, which I believe is a reasonable overall figure to use in the case of the COVID-19 vaccines currently in use. There is another vaccine that is perfectly safe and has an effectiveness of say 99%, which is the equivalent of natural immunity. Which one would you take? The answer is obvious.

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    • #

      could you point me to the data on this?

      Effectiveness of natural immunity: around 98 to 99.9%

      25

      • #
        Analitik

        See this large study from Israel done prior to vaccinations

        Maccabi Healthcare Services found that of 149,735 members who were coronavirus-positive between March 2020 and January 2021, 154 had been reinfected, according to a new research paper that offers “real-world data of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection in a large-scale population cohort.”

        Close enough to 0.1% reinfection rate

        https://www.timesofisrael.com/covid-reinfection-hits-1-in-a-1000-variants-may-fuel-it-israeli-study-finds/

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        • #

          That is not “natural immunity”. One in 1000 people who had previously been infected got infected again in the community. What if that one in one thousand was the only one to come in contact with an infected person?

          That article didn’t cover the rate of community infection. What was it?

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      • #
        PeterS

        Well in theory if one survives a COVID-19 infection then the chances of suffering illness again should be virtually 0 but in reality there are different reasons why it’s somewhat higher. Other variants for example – but the same applies to the effectiveness of vaccines. The immune system also will were off over time – same for vaccines. The point is being infected with the actual virus is always as good if not better than being vaccinated. Remember vaccines are not cures. In the case of the COVID-19 vaccines that are not of the whole virus type (that vast majority overseas and all here) their effectiveness is less than having the virus itself. The whole virus types can be as good as the virus itself given they use either live attenuated vaccines in a weakened form of the virus that can still replicate with minimal illness, or the inactivated vaccines whose genetic material has been destroyed so they cannot replicate, but can still trigger an immune response.

        In case you are confused, I’m not talking about the survival rate of the virus nor the vaccines. I’m talking about the effectiveness of the two after one receives the virus or the vaccine after they survive.

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        • #

          Peter – where did you get your numbers. What study produced them?

          There is no theory that says immunity should be 100%.

          36

          • #
            PeterS

            Fact, not theory – unless you don’t believe in natural immunity and how vaccines work by acting as triggers on the immune response. If natural immunity didn’t work as well as they do, past major pandemics would have been much worse.

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            • #

              what fact? Show me an immunology text that says that natural immunity to a pathogen is close to 100%. Since it measurably and theoretically isn’t. I’m sure you think this for some reason and I suspect that the general population is ignorant of immunology to a similar extent.

              Anyway each disease is different and I’ve never seen a figure from covid in the real world approaching what you are claiming.

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              • #
                OldOzzie

                https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf

                Results:

                SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk
                for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously
                infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and
                February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic
                disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination
                (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was
                demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were
                previously infected.

                Conclusions:

                This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger
                protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the
                Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced
                immunity.
                Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and
                given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta
                variant.

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              • #
                Mantaray

                Every genuine vaccine was / is promoted on the basis that it is about 100% protective. Your kids get the MMR vax because it WILL protect them…not because it MAY protect them. YOU get the yellow fever, cholera , typhoid, TB, Tetanus vaxes not because they might protect you, but because they WILL.

                Now a usually-shilling-for- pharma-firms nutter tries another tack; “pleases show me where govt gets these assertions”.

                Once the shill turns on his/her paymaster, it really is over. Steer clear of the frankenvaxes, dear readers!

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            • #
              Analitik

              Ignore the troll at this point. She is playing word games the same way she did with the PCR tests regarding cycle thresholds.

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              • #
                PeterS

                Sound advice and I’ll take it. Clearly one can’t reason with her.

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              • #

                Not trolling at all. If anyone is, it is the person repeating over and over a falsehood.

                This number of 99% or whatever representing natural immunity from a live virus infection is incorrect. The value is much lower and it is variable. The immune system is triggered by antigens at varying rates(the antigenicity)- it depends on when (eg age and health at the time) where (e.g lungs or blood)and what (e.g. characteristic of virus coats vary) is involved. The latency of immunity also varies.

                It is often not true that whole virus gives a better response than selected antigens.

                So benefit of the doubt to PeterS- where is the evidence for 99% protection against covid19?

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              • #
                Analitik

                Stick this in your “better numbers” file

                During the follow-up period, 257 cases of SARS-CoV-2 infection were recorded, of
                which 238 occurred in the vaccinated group (breakthrough infections) and 19 in the
                previously infected group (reinfections). After adjusting for comorbidities, we found a
                statistically significant 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for
                breakthrough infection as opposed to reinfection
                (P<0.001).

                https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf

                h/t redress

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              • #

                Thanks. That is interesting. Nice that post infection vaccines boost immunity further.

                Still quite different numbers from PeterS who’s numbers appear to have come from nowhere.

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              • #

                little joke for you GA

                oh maybe not as 99.7% wont get it

                LOL 😉

                41

              • #
                Analitik

                Still quite different numbers from PeterS

                If a vaccine has 96% efficacy, then the infection rate is 4%. Natural immunity is 13 times better (at minimum) so the IFR is reduced to 0.3% so the immunity level is 99.7% which is right to the top of the 98 to 99.9% quoted by PeterS

                Can’t you do basic math?

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              • #

                your starting figure is too high. The yet to be published study is comparing people who recovered from the disease so is a subset of covid infections.

                12

              • #

                I don’t agree with Gee Aye on many things, but I mostly do on genetics and immunology and I’m grateful for the comments. Bearing in mind, for what it’s worth – My hons degree was in genetic research. IF GA were spinning junk or cherry picking I feel well equipped to spot it.

                Dare I suggest that some smart people here are picking up snippets of information on a vast topic without knowing the basics. Some humility might be wise.

                Peter — On natural immunity — be aware that it doesn’t always work and there are coronaviruses like 229E you catch repeatedly in your lifetime that are exactly the same virus. Immunity to it lasts only a few months.

                It is possible for natural immunity to be both the strongest and smartest thing, but it’s also possible for it to be worthless, and sometimes even a negative (ie Dengue’s second infection, or responses to Influenza H3N2 created from 1968 -1972ish).

                Often the smartest person in the room is the one who asks the best questions.

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              • #
                PeterS

                Jo, your opinion is not backed up by any facts where as mine and others who are saying the same story are. Natural immunity rules, otherwise we would be far worse than we are now. Vaccines do play a part but given the current ones are not thoroughly tested there are unknown risks factors that can’t as yet be taken into account. Worst case scenario is the vaccines are no good at all to new variants whereas natural immunity would already be an effective deterrent. Already studies are showing the vaccines are far less effective against the delta strain.

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              • #
                Peter C

                It is often not true that whole virus gives a better response than selected antigens.

                Really?

                30

              • #
                Tel

                There are statistics on how many people were infected twice. For example in the UK approx 6 million have been infected and out of those about 16000 were infected twice. That makes about 0.3%

                https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9697379/Coronavirus-16-000-people-reinfected-Covid-UK.html

                A lot of those reinfection cases were only regarded as “probable” and I’m guessing the person in question got sick in the early waves and never got tested until they got sick a second time. There were hardly any tests available in early 2020.

                Generally these studies come out comfortably lower than 1% reinfection, however there is a probability that perhaps people were not exposed a second time, although in the UK that seems very unlikely!

                This may fade over time, but obviously it’s too early to be sure about that. Since they also found cross-immunity from the earlier SARS infections (back in 2003) it would suggest that this immunity can last a long time indeed.

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              • #
                Analitik

                Read the studies Jo. Argue with the numbers, not just what you feel MAY be the way things are.

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              • #

                PeterS — ” your opinion is not backed up by any facts”

                Everything I said in #9,1.2.1.8 is correct. I think you are imagining I said something I didn’t.

                I was responding to Analytiks not so well-mannered suggestion to “ignore the troll” and your endorsement of that which is unhelpful. I was also tweaking your assertion that Natural Immunity Rules. Sometimes it doesnt. You like to learn things right?

                Analytic — I said nothing at all about Covid or whatever studies you quoted. I may well agree with what you say on natural immunity but alas, I’m busy doing my own research for a post on seroprevalence in a few days. I hope I get time to come back and read the thread properly.

                I just wanted a friendlier calmer conversation.

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              • #
                Analitik

                Jo, Gee Aye continually plays word games to misdirect the discussions rather than providing useful counters that extend the knowledge we are all trying to collate and understand.

                Given that, I stand by my comment labelling her as a troll

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              • #

                I dealt directly with the things I considered to be misinformation.

                11

              • #
                Analitik

                Then supply proper references to back up your claims when your declare something invalid rather than just preaching from some dias of “truth”

                10

              • #
                Analitik

                And don’t try to take the discussion off topic like you purposely tried when people were discussing the PCR test cycle threshold being too high, producing irrelevant positive “cases” and then you started bringing the specificity of the test into the discussion.

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              • #

                Seriously – I asked for where the 99% came from. It was unattributed and wrong and nothing provided has supported it. I initially invited the author of that statement to find themselves any undergrad level immunology texts (full of references btw) and see where they went wrong. I (and Jo) paraphrased the key points they would find in such texts.

                The expectation here is that outlandish and unsupported statements require diligent replies that go far beyond any effort put in by the original poster.

                I don’t buy it. What you are asking for is for license to make lazy non thinking statements and to continue spreading disinformation without fear that anyone will say boo.

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              • #

                I strongly suspect that you didn’t understand the point I was making re PCR, the bit you mentioned would have been a part of an answer, since you don’t seem to get the connection.

                remember that RT pcr detects which cycle the positive occurs in so cycle number is an irrelevance most times, and that extreme weak, aberrant or late-cycle positives are retested.

                00

        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          G’day PeterS,
          Seems to me that “natural immunity” is achieved by having high enough blood levels of vitamin D, some of which is used up in any exposure to the virus…
          I’m using that thought in deciding to take my vitamin D3 daily.
          Cheers
          Dave B

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          • #
            PeterS

            I’ve started doing that over a year ago. Also Zinc and Vit C. I actually feel better today than ever before. My doctor recently stated my blood tests were very good. I was deficient in Vit D before but now they are at acceptable levels. I take 2 a day.

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            • #
              David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

              G’day PeterS,
              Do you have some numbers please?
              Your two a day? Is that 2 x 1000 IU per day?
              And did you get a number for blood level? My doc said I was at “acceptable level” at 20 ng/ml, whereas my reading says 60 ng/ml is desirable against COVID. (I got there by taking 10 x 1000 IU per day, since last September.)
              Cheers
              Dave B

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      • #
  • #
    TdeF

    My local pharmacy is doing vaccinations. Great. No waiting. The queues at the other places mean hours of waiting and that is with a booking system which is stretched in places to November. So I cancelled my booking and walked over the street.

    It is incredible that there is a vaccine at all, let alone a choice of vaccines. And so quickly after the distribution of the virus to the planet by millions of Chinese visitors, unrestrictred and unannounced. The President of WHO has a lot of deaths on his hands but as a member of the Ethiopian Tigray People’s Liberation Front, what’s a few more?

    However we will roar past a vaccination level required to protect the older members of society and it appears the younger people are not affected at all by this mutation. So I would guess we will be out of this by Christmas but have to keep our guard up for ongoing deadlier mutations as long as the original virus is rampant in places like Russia which is still losing a thousand lives a day.

    This also exposed, as in America, that Federations can fall apart when people finally realise that income tax, the military and currency are under Federal control, but that everything else is still a Federation of independent states. Europe too has realised it. And dictators like Daniel Andrews has abused it to the full, cancelling ANZAC day and Easter but allowing the BLM march and Ramadan.

    71

    • #
      Brenda Spence

      They are not vaccines in the true sense of the word, they are genetic therapeutic agents. They do not give immunity, thats obvious now, they merely reduce the effects of the illness.

      The fact that they were developed quickly is not worthy of praise at all, the long term effects are still coming,…..and I hope these pharmacies have people capable of giving advanced life support if things go pear shaped!

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      • #

        Incorrect. A vaccine is an agent that elicits an immune response to an antigen. The mRNA vaccine produces antigens and the body responds. Just stating that previous technologies are “true something”, is like saying your flat screen TV is not a true TV because it contains no vacuum tubes.

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        • #
          Brenda Spence

          Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

          From the CDC.

          These innoculations are not vaccines and are essentially setting up an autoimmune disease.

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          • #

            You just literally confirmed what I wrote and bagged what you wrote.

            So they are vaccines but they are not. Right. Got it.

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            • #

              no she didn’t your wordsmithing BS LOL

              this shot is not a vaccine it is a prophylactic
              a vaccine gives you immunity and sterilises the virus eg… polio virus vaccine

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              • #

                if you say so.

                I’m jumping off this merry go round as it is back to where it started.

                27

              • #

                Beware of word games

                The shot is a vaccine, it’s just not a very effective one at stopping transmission. It is protecting many people from severe disease and death (so far, long term effects TBA).

                I don’t care much for CDC wordsmiths. A vaccine is anything that gives your immune system a preview of an infectious agent. The mRNA ones do that, though I don’t feel enthused about the long term risks.

                There is nothing inherent in the word vaccine that says it has to be useful or effective. The RSV vaccines that were trialed decades ago turned out to be worse than nothing for the poor kids who took it. They were called vaccines, and are still called vaccines, even though no one would take them now.

                The RSV vacc didn’t suddenly fall out of that technology definition just because it didn’t work.

                A hammer is still a hammer even if someone kills someone with it. The definition of the technology is not dependent on whether it is used for good outcomes.

                Brenda, they can be both a vaccine and a genetic therapeutic agent. The two things don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

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              • #

                “The shot is a vaccine, it’s just not a very effective one at stopping transmission. It is protecting many people from severe disease and death”

                “oh really” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DOOZpGA_VI&t=1s

                so by all means, “go get stuck” be my guest

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              • #
                Strop

                Marksman. You’ve posted a video that supports exactly what Jo said. Your comments suggest you didn’t intend to.

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              • #

                I think his comments (not just this one) suggest that he has no intention of trying to understand what he is commenting on.

                10

            • #

              “I think his comments (not just this one) suggest that he has no intention of trying to understand what he is commenting on.”

              if you actually watch the video in the link l provided you will hear from a credible source who has a PHD in cellular and molecular biology
              she does not agree with Jo even announces that as a PHD who knows the science and she is in the group that are the most vaccine hesitant

              watch the video GA try and understand LOL
              She clearly showed that these poison jabs do nothing for our health

              20

        • #
          yarpos

          I imagine all the Thalidomide Mums would have stuck with a true morning sickness relief rather taking up the new “safe” technology.

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        • #
    • #
      Chad

      TdF ..you wrote…

      However we will roar past a vaccination level required to protect the older members of society and it appears the younger people are not affected at all by this mutation.

      Unless all those older members are vaccinated with an effective dose, ..they will remain unprotected against any small number of “carriers” that may be in contact.
      Also, how do you define “young”. To conclude…… “young people are not affected at all by this mutation”….?
      That is completely opposite to the information i am seeing .

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    • #
      Charles

      “And so quickly after the distribution of the virus”…Does that not ring any alarm bells for people?
      We’ve had god knows how much money spent over decades and still no vaccines for any number of debilitating viruses/illnesses, but only 6 months or so into bat flu release, with dubious origins and even links to the likes of Fauci and co, you have 3 or 4 companies all come up with a ‘vaccine’ at about the same time. What are the chances? Doesn’t pass the sniff test for mine, not even close.

      The ‘rare’ heart problems dont seem to be that rare, especially in the young. How many journos do we have in this country? About 4200 according to google. Two hospitalisations in that group already that we know about. Aged 27 and 45. How many fit, healthy people in that age group die from bat flu? How many even get symptoms or just a sniffle? The cure is worse than the disease but our bumbling pollies want to lock people out of society if they dont submit to this great experiment? Its disgusting.

      https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/channel-7-journalist-hospitalised-with-pericarditis-after-pfizer-vaccine/news-story/43e3d637eeea6827962aa973db8cda7e

      https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/nsw-journalist-hospitalised-after-covid-jab-backs-vaccine/news-story/e7dd26630ed72699318bd3df7c35e339

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    • #
      Vicki Sanderson

      I worry about the number of unqualified people carrying out injections. It may be that the pharmacist’s assistants, & even less qualified people that are apparently giving injections, have been given necessary instructions.

      But few, on camera at least, seem to aspirate the needle before injection.

      Could some of the adverse reactions be caused by inadvertent injection into the bloodstream, instead of into the muscle?

      10

    • #
      Broadie

      My local pharmacy does not harm people. They do ‘fluvax’ not ‘clot shots’

      00

  • #
    David Maddison

    Not saying that I believe his claims but Erich von Däniken is still alive having had a nice career and he is a pleasant crank. You might not believe his claims about extraterrestrial visitation and neither do I but he seems like a likeable chap and never seems to have said anything really nasty or obnoxious about anyone.

    His “Chariots of the gods” is free on YouTube. See https://youtu.be/EDKPMIURDtY

    The musical soundtrack was good.

    I think claims of extraterrestrials are invalid but there certainly seems to be evidence of previous advanced civilisations from 8,000 to 10,000 years ago such as the builders of Gobekli Tepe, pre-Incan polygonal stone masonry in South America and elsewhere and possibly the builders of the pyramids and the Sphynx. Much evidence of that civilisation would be buried underwater on former coastal plains that were flooded at the end of the last glaciation.

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  • #
    RickWill

    Chile is another country doing well with vaccines – now at 73% fully vaccinated. Daily deaths now down to 45.
    https://covid19.healthdata.org/chile?view=vaccinations&tab=trend

    36

    • #
      Analitik

      Even the MSM is starting to question the wisdom of mass vaccination

      Bloomberg voices concerns

      Though it is evident vaccination still provides powerful protection against the virus, there’s growing concern that vaccinated people may be more vulnerable to serious illness than previously thought.

      A newly released, far larger CDC case study of infections in New York state, meanwhile, found that the number of breakthrough infections has steadily ticked up since May, accounting for almost 4% of cases by mid-July.

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-21/science-can-t-keep-up-with-virus-creating-worry-for-vaccinated

      and the BBC has this VERY good article balancing vaccination vs natural immunity

      “We could be digging ourselves into a hole, for a very long time, where we think we can only keep Covid away by boosting every year,” Prof Eleanor Riley, an immunologist from the University of Edinburgh, told me.

      You get a broader immune response after being infected with the virus than vaccination.

      Whether you’ve had Moderna or Pfizer or Oxford-AstraZeneca, your body is learning to spot just one thing – the spike protein.
      This is the critical part of the virus to make antibodies to, and the results – by keeping most out of hospital – have been spectacular.
      But having the other 28 proteins to target too, would give T-cells far more to go at.

      Each time you’re exposed, the immune system gets a little bit stronger, and this continues until old age, when the immune system starts to fail and the infections become a problem again.

      “This isn’t proven, but it could be a lot cheaper and simpler to let that happen than spend the whole time immunising people,” said Prof Finn, who warns we could end up “locked into a cycle of boosting” without seeing if it was necessary.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098

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      • #
        RickWill

        vaccinated people may be more vulnerable to serious illness than previously thought.

        OK – not quite bullet-proof. But then I knew that because I looked at the results of the trials.

        “This isn’t proven,

        True for now but in the long run Peru will give a reasonable example because about 60% of the population there have carried the virus.

        19

        • #
          Analitik

          So why did you claim you would be “bullet proof” in a few more days?

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          • #
            Serp

            Simple euphoria I thought but were he to continue in that vein of rodomontade and braggadocio hereafter then you’d have an adverse event if loss of humility may be so characterised.

            40

    • #
      RickWill

      Denmark in another country with high vaccination rate – now 68%:
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/denmark?view=vaccinations&tab=trend

      They are down to 1 daily Covid death.

      28

      • #
        Serp

        And they’re planning to remove all covid restrictions (masks &c) except where constrained by more potent authorities (airports) by September 1.

        10

      • #
        Gabriel Pentelie

        Denmark’s 7-day COVID death average was the same last August (i.e. when its vaccination rate was 0%).

        Again, …

        Your scouring international vaccination data for cherry-picked examples is an invalid way to make the case for vaccines.

        50

    • #
      Gabriel Pentelie

      Chile’s 7-day COVID death average was about the same last August (i.e. when its vaccination rate was 0%).

      Your scouring international vaccination data for cherry-picked examples is an invalid way to make the case for vaccines.

      30

  • #
    David Maddison

    Remember how Leftist lovers of the Chinese bioweapon relished its civilisation destroying capability and kept on telling us that you didn’t develop immunity or lengthy immunity to COVID and you could get it multiple times?

    E.g. https://theconversation.com/immunity-to-covid-19-may-not-last-this-threatens-a-vaccine-and-herd-immunity-142556

    They lied (no surprise there).

    Lifelong immunity can be developed.

    Recent Dr Been video: https://youtu.be/ISWpW-ykjPo

    Article: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9

    Article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4

    So there goes another excuse to keep the people permanently locked up in prison states and impose a Marxist or Fascist dictatorship (for our own good, of course).

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  • #
    dinn, rob

    passaging in petri dish of recombinant virus (in part or whole) admitted by WIV scientist https://balance10.blogspot.com/2021/08/passaging-in-petri-dish-of-recombinant.html
    ………
    legal immunity given to vaccine makers, overview
    https://balance10.blogspot.com/2021/08/legal-immunity-given-to-vaccine-makers.html
    ……………….
    At UCSD’s annual “China Forum” https://balance10.blogspot.com/2021/08/8-23-21-at-ucsds-annual-china-forum.html
    regards to down under

    10

  • #
    David Maddison

    White House Cuts Audio as Joe Biden Jokes About Stranded Americans

    https://redstate.com/bonchie/2021/08/25/white-house-cuts-audio-as-joe-biden-jokes-about-stranded-americans-n432667

    It’s going to end up in a hostage situation as with Iran under Carter, who unbelievably was even a better president than Biden.

    Nothing happened until President Reagan was sworn in as president after which it took the Iranians a full 15 minutes to release the hostages.

    In this case we may have to wait until President Trump is re-elected. I bet the Afghans won’t even wait 15 mins. President Trump will be absolutely furious by then and will already have a battle plan in mind. Sadly, he can’t bomb them back into the Stone Age, they are already there…

    141

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Yep.

      But re-arranging the rocks and stones always makes for a more stimulating stone garden.

      41

  • #
  • #
    Hanrahan

    The only reason socialism fails is because it hasn’t been done right, or so we are told.

    Venezuela clearly did something wrong:

    CARACAS – The socialist government of Venezuela announced the “Digital Bolivar,” a new iteration of Venezuela’s obliterated currency that will begin circulating on October 1, 2021.

    This is the socialist regime’s third attempt at relaunching Venezuela’s currency so as to facilitate local currency transactions in a country now being held together by the once demonized U.S. dollar and cryptocurrencies.

    Six zeroes will be cut from the current scale, for a grand total of 14 zeroes slashed out of the Venezuelan currency: three with the introduction of the “Bolivar Fuerte” in 2008, and an additional five in 2018 with the introduction of the “Bolivar Soberano.”

    That means that come October 1, one of these new “digital” bolivars will be worth 100,000,000,000,000 of the bolivars that existed before Hugo Chávez rose to power in 1999.

    100

  • #
    Rod

    Just to break the totalitarian despondency here’s the 2021 Aussie tourism ad.

    https://youtu.be/Ozdu06E0WLE

    Enjoy.

    141

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Watching the NSW health media for today and the police state is here.

    Unless you are vaccinated, you are not allowed to go outside and to a park and mix with anyone.
    If double jabbed, up to 5 people can meet.
    You will need to show your papers.

    Can unvaccinated folk meet in their homes?
    Not mentioned, but, these ‘freedoms’ are exclusively for double jabbed ONLY.

    More police everywhere. All the time?

    >> Next?

    They can’t put a guard on every house of the un vaxxed, so, off to the gulags for them.

    Their obsession is “fully vaccinated “, but the goal should be immunity, natural or otherwise.

    In only seven months we went from ‘Trump is a [email protected]” to “show me your papers” in Australia.
    Wow.

    190

    • #
      PeterS

      I haven’t watched their hysterical nonsense for some time. If they are announcing restrictions on people who are not vaccinated then they have a potential problem – surely it’s discriminatory and illegal!

      81

      • #
        Mark Allinson

        ” … surely it’s discriminatory and illegal!”

        How very quaint and old fashioned you are, using such terms.

        70

        • #
          wal1957

          Quaint indeed.
          PeterS is remembering the good old days when freedom of choice was a given.
          Let me see, I think that was about a year and a half ago.

          80

          • #
            PeterS

            LOL. Amazing isn’t it how things can change so quickly. Let’s see what happens in the years to come.

            21

    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      Perhaps Gladys will weld the doors of the unvaccinated shut like the communists did in Wuhan in China recently.

      After allowing Victorian police to fire on fellow Australian peaceful protesters last weekend, history shows they won’t stop now.

      110

    • #
      PeterS

      Actually I did see Brad Hazzard on a video clip recently on Bitchute. He looked and sounded like he was demon possessed. Seriously.

      20

    • #
      PeterS

      Actually I did see Brad Hazzard on a video clip recently on B1tchute. Nasty person.

      20

    • #
      PeterS

      Actually I did see Brad Hazzard on a video clip recently on B1tchute. He looked and sounded like he was demon possessed. Seriously.

      10

    • #
      yarpos

      Interesting how pollies and academics that have never had a real job , or built or operated anything in the real world keep coming up with unrealistic rules and models. How is that managed in a city of million plus? Same with Dan and his stupid “ring of steel” a massive waste of time and money to checkpoint compliant people on main roads while others bypassed it. Dan had to have reality explained to him.

      00

  • #
    Annie

    Where do all these extra police come from?

    41

    • #
      David Maddison

      In Vicdanistan Andrews has employed an extra 3000 police. Only they are not a “people’s police force” but more like Andrews’ private army complete with military equipment such as Lenco Bearcat armoured personnel carriers.

      91

  • #
    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    There’s a small plane flying repeatedly over Mudgee this morning. Once I would have thought it was a pilot in training. Now I wonder if it’s a Police surveillance flight.
    Cheers
    Dave B

    80

    • #
      David Maddison

      They are probably looking for “covid violators”. Maybe someone walking alone in the country without a mask.

      As the Australian dictatorship is consolidated be prepared to see more surveillance, both electronic and physical such as light aircraft or drones.

      71

  • #
    Analitik

    14 new CoViD “cases” in the ACT up from 9 yesterday after plummeting from 30 the day before. So there is still no firm trend
    80 new CoViD “cases” in the Victoria up from 41 yesterday after plateauing from 47 the day before. So there is still no firm trend
    1034 new CoViD “cases” in the New South Wales up from 919 yesterday continuing to rise from 755 the day before. So trend continues upwards.

    https://covidlive.com.au/

    68 new community CoViD “cases” in the New Zealand up from 62 yesterday continuing to rise from 41 the day before. So trend continues upwards.

    https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases

    So there is no definitive proof that the lockdowns are working to contain the Delta variant outbreaks.

    111

    • #
      PeterS

      I thought they given up using the excuse that lockdowns are to reduce case numbers and instead focusing on getting the vaccination rate to 70-80%? The lockdowns are only there to spread fear and coerce people into getting the shots. Of course they don’t have a clue what they are doing makes any difference, for better or for worse – or do they?

      90

    • #
      RickWill

      I wonder what happened in both Victoria and NSW 4 or 5 days ago to cause this increase in causes?

      27

      • #

        can’t imagine.

        Were there protests in QLD?

        32

      • #
        Analitik

        What about the ACT?

        20

        • #

          We’ve had spikes due to schools and particular establishments. So far it is all accounted for (apart from where case #1 caught it)

          No one protests in the ACT as we are mindlessly happy about everything

          53

          • #
            Ronin

            Except your power prices.

            20

          • #
            Analitik

            And the case number rising despite the implied correlation by RickWill for protests and new cases.

            40

            • #

              Not rising here. For now at least.

              01

              • #
                Peter C

                Not falling either. Why not?

                00

              • #
                Analitik

                14 isn’t greater than 9?
                What math is this?

                10

              • #

                For a person called analitik you don’t seem to know much about data.

                00

              • #
                Analitik

                Try providing an argument rather than playing the man

                00

              • #

                Sorry I assumed you were joking. It is stochasticity. It has gone up for two days after going down one day and up down up up down before that. It is just sampling. It didn’t mean that one day things were improving and the next getting worse.

                If you take out two days, that I suspect were outliers (high and low) because of particular sampling events, we’ve been on 10-20 cases for 2 weeks. That objective view is fine but I am subjectively worried that we’ve gone up for two days in a row.

                00

              • #

                I’ll add a different number to this. New cases infectious in the community.

                Some of the up and down is chance e.g new cases that are members of a large household versus someone living alone infecting no one else. Also, a high or low number can follow on from another high number with a delay due to intra household transmission. So, total numbers can be misleading.

                What drives the lockdown is to reduce infections spreading to new households. Today we had 6 infectious in the wild versus 1 yesterday. That worries me more than 21 vs 14.

                00

              • #
                Analitik

                On that basis, you cannot make he bald statement of “Not rising here.”
                You should express uncertainty as is “Doesn’t SEEM to be rising here.”

                If you want to hold others to some standard of accuracy, you should also do so yourself.

                10

              • #

                Sorry but I have stated over and over again that there is no evidence of a trend. I can phrase it as you like but I’ll choose my own words thanks.

                00

              • #
                Analitik

                Which allows me to state that there is an upward trend as the case numbers rose from 9 on one day to 14 the next. That it is nowhere near a definitive trend doesn’t mean it is not a trend

                I can also chose my own words, thanks.

                00

              • #

                I’m looking for a statistical trend and there is none yet. I’ve added that yet (and have before) because subsequent data added to the current data can form a trend that includes the current data. Your eyeball trends are fine for you but don’t override my statements.

                01

            • #
              Analitik

              Gee, Aye don’t know what you are referring to.

              10

          • #
            RickWill

            Your eternal optimism is getting tiresome!

            14

      • #
        Strop

        Rick,
        Given Vic has had 57, 61, 66, 71, 51, 41, 80 and NSW 636, 820, 824, 803, 745, 910, 1016 in recent days and Vic Health has attributed cases to their source without referencing the events of the weekend (13 of the 80 are still under investigation) I think you’re clutching at straws.

        I would think protestors are not likely to front up for a covid test anyway, given they know positive tests likely extends what they’re protesting against.

        How’s the Vic Assistant CHO comment about curfews being the reason case numbers are so low looking when they have only gone up significantly since the curfew?

        50

        • #
          RickWill

          I would think protestors are not likely to front up for a covid test anyway, given they know positive tests likely extends what they’re protesting against.

          They might be the ones dying in their homes. Scared s/less about getting locked up if they present to emergency wards.

          07

        • #
          yarpos

          one sees what one wants to see, its the climate stuff revisited or perhaps the human condition revisited

          30

    • #
      sophocles

      277 cases in NZ total.

      The virus has been found swimming around in waste water in Christchurch (the capital of the South Island) so expect cases there imminently.

      5 days to go …

      They should be handing out Vit D3 but aren’t. It’s not a “vaccine” — but then, neither are the supposed “vaccines.”

      90

      • #
        RickWill

        A wastewater detection in Shepparton has evolved into 30% of the locals in home quarantine as being close contacts and has grown to 30 cases. Covid was detected in wastewater almost a week before cases started to emerge.

        There is an industrial estate in Melbourne that has been showing wastewater detections for two weeks now but still have not found the cases.

        It is interesting detective work. The testing authorities have narrowed it down to about 20 factories and are testing all personnel in those factories.

        14

      • #

        Funny… Wellington is the capital of the south island, which is made up of many provinces. Christchurch is the capital of Canterbury.

        Time to do some weeding and repotting I think when I respond to this sort of thing.

        22

    • #

      Analitik… did not se this earlier or I would have written my comment#31 here.

      11

    • #
      Tides of Mudgee

      Analitik, it’s interesting to me how the numbers of “cases” seem to be rising with the numbers of vaccinations. Coincidence? Hmmmmm. ToM

      70

      • #
        Serp

        That’s the trend elsewhere which makes it unsurprising that it’s happened here.

        50

      • #
        RickWill

        Actually it is a bit like temperature and CO2. Temperature rises then CO2. Number of cases rise, people get concerned and line up for vaccinations. It is part of their evil plan to kill off the 99%.

        04

    • #
      GlenFromAus

      In India, after the first wave had stopped, they started vaccinations. Then about 14 days later the cases started to rise, and rise, and rise, and rise, and rise.

      Then, when there were 1000’s of deaths a day, 6 of the 7 states decided to go to IVM treatment rather than the jabs-of-death, and BEHOLD, after just four days cases PLUMMETED and PLUMMETED … but in the other state, the cases peaked, and very slowly dropped by a tiny fraction … showing that IVM works far-far-far-far-far better than the jabs-of-death … then we heard NOTHING, not a peep of information … such great news was obviously not helpful to some nefarious worldwide organisation … and this is obvious by the way it was all suppressed.

      Then here is Australia, after the first wave had stopped some time ago, they kept pushing vaccinations, and so people started getting them in droves, and then cases started to rise and rise and …….. here we are …… and here we will stay until our state governments open their eyes to better solutions rather than this final solution.

      51

      • #

        The Vax for any and all flaws it may have doesn’t cause waves of Covid. Correlation is not causation.

        Many vaxes given in Perth / NT / SA/ Tas . No cases.

        Lets not get distracted. Fight real corruption…

        40

        • #
          PeterS

          Fight real corruption? I wish we could. Nice dream.

          31

        • #
          yarpos

          Saw an item on the news today where they compared last years VIC outbreak with this years NSW outbreak, noting the lower death rate. This of course was put down to the very incomplete injection program, nothing at all to do with them being different variants.

          30

      • #
        Tel

        Same happened in Israel, they started the vaccine program late 2020 and they had a big wave early 2021.

        Same happened in Malaysia which had almost no problem in 2020 but started vaccinations March 2021 and then got a bigger wave than any previous, shooting up around May 2021.

        Philippines was similar but not quite the same, they were slowly rolling out vaccinations March and April 2021 and got a big wave in April but their vaccination program only picked up after that wave. Currently they are behind most countries in vaccination … but that said, their deaths per capita are also lower than most nations at 294/million. I’m told that Philippines has a savage lockdown with people literally in fear of their lives from police. Duterte is known for his Judge Dredd style of legal system.

        Correlation is not causation.

        It’s a good place to go looking for causation. If the cases had gone DOWN right after vaccination then sure as heck we would hear a lot of people singing and dancing about causation.

        80

  • #
    another ian

    Roll up! Roll up!

    “The Science of “Hope” – Biden Administration Will Promote New Plan For Multiple Booster Shots Every Six Months in Perpetuity For COVID Variants
    August 25, 2021 | Sundance | 463 Comments”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/25/the-science-of-hope-biden-administration-will-promote-new-plan-for-multiple-booster-shots-every-six-months-in-perpetuity-for-covid-variants/

    60

    • #
      another ian

      From USA – looks like rebound has set in.

      Seems businesses have worked out that you fix staff shortages with the best staff if you advertise as “no mandatory vaccination required”.

      120

    • #
      Serp

      Let’s watch the progression eh, from half yearly to monthly, weekly, daily…

      I suppose Big Pharma is already writing its airtight contracts for governments to purchase courses of patented antivirals.

      40

  • #
    RickWill

    In December 1970, the Liberal Bolte government mandated wearing car seat belts in Victoria – without opposition. The very first location in the world to dictate this incredible impost that every person travelling in a private vehicle needs to endure at risk of a hefty fine; $20 at the time (about 1 day’s pay).

    That was the start of the police state we have today where law abiding citizens get beaten to submission for sharing their harmless virus while just walking in the city streets.

    Today the Herald Sun had photos of the unfortunates who had to passively defend themselves against the police brutality causing some injuries to the brutal police when they fell on the protesters’ boots. They should put the photos up in the hospital emergency wards so the unfortunates get picked up when they present with Covid.

    17

    • #
      Ronin

      I had travelled overseas and when I came home, it dawned on me nowhere else in the world I had been will fine you for not wearing a cycle helmet.

      Driving a hire car in Texas, doing the legal 60mph in the slow lane after dark on the highway, cars passing me left right and center, sped up to match their speed, 80 mph saw us all going same speed, spoke to someone afterwards about it, they said no problem around here with that, why.

      50

    • #
      Strop

      We were still allowed to travel more than 5km and do it after 9pm under the seat belt law.

      20

      • #
        RickWill

        But the rot started with mandatory use of car safety belts – maybe?

        I have a nephew who did a trade as a panel beater. He worked for a couple of years in the Middle East some decades ago. He never ventured onto open roads because he had learnt why panel beating was big business in the Middle East. Cars were somewhat of a novelty at the time and the few wealthy drivers were always hopeful Allah would protect them when they drove on the wrong side of the road below crests and around a rare blind curve. Sometimes they did not have Allah’s protection.

        Humans have become ridiculously conditioned to driving on their allocated side of the road. It seems crazy that society so readily conforms to these silly rules. Maybe the rot started a while back.

        I understand my mother was so frightened of the prospect of polio that she had all her kids go through a vaccination program requiring 3 or 4 shots. On the other hand we shared chicken pox through the house in two stints.

        13

        • #
          Chris

          Your mother was spot on. Polio left you paralysed some times completely, from the neck down. Those unfortunate individuals spent the rest of their lives in an iron lung. Whereas chicken pox, measles and mumps were relatively mild diseases in the Anglo-celtic population.
          It was considered normal to expose children to these diseases. When aboriginal people contracted measles many died.

          20

        • #
          Chad

          Humans have become ridiculously conditioned to driving on their allocated side of the road. It seems crazy that society so readily conforms to these silly rules. Maybe the rot started a while back.

          That is a “first world” issue.
          The sensible “rest of the world” approach as used in outback Oz , Africa, Asia, etc …is that the side of the road to be used, is the “Better”. side !
          ..And sometimes that may mean not on the road at all.

          20

        • #
          Strop

          Rick. Maybe the rot started way back when murder and stealing was outlawed.

          You’re talking about laws that assist our freedoms. Laws that provide a general understanding between two people and remove confusion without notably impinging on freedoms.

          10

  • #
    David Maddison

    How stupid would you have to be to holiday in Afghanistan?

    https://www.emmanuelsblog.com.ng/2021/08/ive-accepted-death-british-student.html?m=1

    ‘I’ve accepted death’ – British student stuck in Afghanistan on holiday says

    A British national stuck in a UN safehouse in Afghanistan says he has accepted his fate and feels ‘abandoned’ as the country falls to the Taliban.

    Miles Routlege, 21, from Birmingham says he visited the country because he thought it’ll be safe to visit because the country would not fall to the Taliban for several months.

    However, on Sunday, August 15, Taliban troops rolled into the capital, seizing power as president Ashraf Ghani ran for his life.

    Miles, whose ambition is to visit some of the world’s most dangerous places, claims he was stopped by insurgents near Kabul international airport who asked him where he was from.

    SEE LINK FOR REST

    101

    • #
      RickWill

      A bit like Covid lockdown protesters – you cannot beat stupid!

      318

    • #
      Steve of Cornubia

      Darwin’s Law proven once again.

      70

    • #
      Ronin

      Good to see natural selection is still working.

      50

    • #
      RossP

      I read somewhere earlier that there is a group of school kids (15 of them, I think it was) and their guardians from San Diego, caught in Kabul, as well.
      This was a school trip !! How were they allowed to do this sort of trip at this time?

      60

      • #
        bobby b

        They were all Afghans, seeking to visit their extended families back home one last time. US gov seemed to agree with them that they had time to do that.

        Oops.

        00

    • #
      Serp

      Young blokes, you’ll never stop thrill seekers; it’s reminiscent of David Hicks going to the Line of Control in Kashmir and firing upon Indians from the Pakistani side.

      30

      • #
        yarpos

        and when things are made safer they (we?) find new and creative ways to injure and kill themselves.

        30

  • #
    M Allinson

    Just out of general interest, should we actually get another federal election, would you:

    [1]. Bother to make a formal vote

    [2]. If so why?

    01

    • #
      David Maddison

      I will still vote, however in my area all candidates are a waste of space so I will vote for the least bad one.

      Better to have someone that is “slightly less bad” than “fully bad”.

      81

      • #
        PeterS

        Makes no difference whether one is killed by a pistol or a large bomb – still dead. Perhaps one lives slightly longer with a gun shot, that’s all.

        40

    • #
      PeterS

      Why give the major more opportunity to form a government in their own right only to perpetuate their fake polices, such as emissions reductions? Use your vote to give a louder voice in parliaments to a minor party that rejects such nation destroying polices, unless of course one likes them to continue on the self-destructive path we are on at the moment. It’s your choice. Unlike the vaccines, at the moment there is no coercion to vote for either major party.

      70

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Ask yourself if you liked Rudd and Gillard and if you look forward to Albo. If your answer is “No” then vote formally.

      40

    • #
      yarpos

      yes we have a Green masquerading as an independent, I would like to contribute to her demise

      40

    • #
      Serp

      What mechanism can be deployed to prevent a federal election? Are you envisaging nationwide martial law being imposed and suspension of constitutional law?

      I went looking and ran up against the Parliamentary Education Office’s velvet misdirection and infantilization. All I can say is that section 28 of the constitution asserts writs are to be issued for a federal election within three years of the previous election date.

      There’d be some constitutional boffin who can say what means exist to prevent that although such a bird is not likely feeding here.

      20

    • #
      beowulf

      My vote helped to almost unseat Joel Fitzgibbon last time. He was a rather ashen shade by 8pm, so yes, I’ll be there for an encore. Keep him on his toes.

      30

    • #
      GD

      By not voting or making a donkey vote, you’re helping hand government to Labor/the Greens.

      40

  • #
    David Maddison

    The Oxford-AstraZeneca uses a chimpanzee adenovirus as a vector to produce the spike protein inside the body. The virus is said to have been modified to prevent its replication.

    Questions:

    1) What are the chances that this virus will somehow regain the ability to replicate?

    2) What are the chances that through some defect it may develop, it starts producing a protein other than what is intended?

    3) How long does the virus stay in the body until it “dies” or does it work indefinitely?

    71

  • #
    PeterS

    An interesting take on the FDA approval.

    FDA approved does NOT EQUAL SAFE

    50

  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    There is another plague sweeping the planet, though this time it isn’t a virus but a pandemic of incompetence and laziness.

    In a sudden deluge of bad luck and family dramas, Mrs Wife and I find ourselves embroiled in administrative hell. A succession of events have required that we deal with social services, hospitals, banks, tax authorities, pension companies, solicitors and lawyers, most of which are back in the UK, but also some here in Oz.

    Doing this has opened our eyes to just how badly managed and operated the public services and large corporate entities are currently, worse even than I thought. A lot is blamed on Covid, and I tend to think that ‘working from home’ is a misnomer, but that doesn’t explain a lot of the tangled, inefficient and opaque bureaucracy we faced. It truly seems like the world has been taken over by the Vogons.

    Even the simplest of queries requires five phone calls, an email, and the production of notorised ID in triplicate, sent by registered mail.

    Most of the people we have dealt with, hilariously called ‘Helpdesk Operators’, have one singular objective – to kick that can down the road. They know all the tricks, “Could you put that in an email and send it to the xxx team please?” or “I don’t have access to that file. Let me take your number then forget you exist.”

    And that’s if you’re lucky enough to speak with an actual human. More often, you get a Bot and instructions to, “Dial 1 to be transferred to an empty desk, dial 2 to leave a callback number that we will ignore, or dial 3 to listen to ten minutes of distorted pop music before getting an engaged tone.”

    Etc.

    I can feel the will to live slowly slipping away …

    170

    • #
      RickWill

      If they offer a chat line then that is a good way to deal with bureaucracies. You can have a written record of all exchanges. When you get passed on, tell the next person to read the history. They begin to realise that they are just part of a very messy system. You get up the line to someone who has the authority to help faster.

      I could write a book on the incompetence of Telstra where a problem went on for a decade. The last three years is all on chat history. I now only use Telstra for internet connection over a land line. Any time they offer a change to that service I say no because there is no way I want to get into managing changes through Telstra ever again.

      The Telstra story may not seem a good example of how chat helps but the problem went on for 7 years prior and only took 3 years to solve for good with the chat. Having their written record of all exchanges is a powerful tool in highlighting their incompetence. Rather than screaming into the phone and pulling your hair out, you can just sit quietly while the next person up the chain reads the history and it dawns on them what you have actually tolerated from their organisation.

      There is real value in keeping a written record. In the early days of CitlInk in Melbourne I had an exchange over billing and they ended up saying that the fault was with my bank, the NAB. I sent the email from Citilink to the NAB. Citilink came back with an apology and a travel credit without any further involvement from me. There must have been tens of thousands of people going through the same issue because the fault occurred due to the Citilink billing system polling the NAB computer at the same time NAB was doing its daily update. Citilink was illegally “fining” people for not paying when they had a fundamental system flaw in their billing. A few years later Citilink was required to pay back millions in illegal fines. I actually knew people who paid their “fines” without question.

      80

      • #
        Steve of Cornubia

        You’re dead right and, largely thanks to my experience in business, I am a stickler for putting (and asking for) everything in writing. I go so far as to make a screenshot of chatbot conversations, just in case a transcript isn’t emailed to me. Likewise online enquiry forms that may cease to exist the moment you hit ‘Send’.

        60

      • #
        Ian1946

        Deep down Telstra is still the old PMG. Same service and same attitude. Nothing changes.

        10

    • #
      yarpos

      I am currently embroiled in trying to get a straight answer out of VicRoads for my local car club.

      Back in March I repeatedly followed up after the question feel in a black hole each time, finally they got exasperated and said it had to go to the policy department and they would contact me “shortly” recently I asked if they had any response, and so it goes. They think I will go way 🙂

      Competence is not the norm.

      40

  • #
  • #

    ACT today. 12 new cases. 11 at home while infectious and 1 probably out briefly but possibly not infectious anyway.

    This is one of the best days in the last 10 but still can be explained by variation and no good or bad trend at the moment. The bright side is that numbers are getting closer to forming an improving trend.

    03

    • #

      sorry 14/13 not 12/11

      02

    • #
      RickWill

      Once the roaming spreaders are eliminated, cases drop away rapidly. Canberra may come out of their lockdown in a few days. Then it will be a matter of how borders are controlled with NSW. If there are no border controls then ACT is just part of NSW.

      06

      • #
        yarpos

        They will probably use the same method they use to keep that nasty coal fired power out of the ACT, surely we cant say its part of NSW.

        30

    • #
      Peter C

      The bright side is that numbers are getting closer to forming an improving trend.

      Meaning?

      00

      • #

        Simply that a trend is not established but the numbers are lower rather than higher so a few low days will confirm a low trend whereas a few higher days will still be no trend (call it a downward trend if you want but I am conservative with drawing lines through data)

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          Update. Today 20 cases and 6 infectious in the community. This is not good and lockdown (14 days now) has not decreased the cases or community infections so far (stats not done but I’d bet my virginity on it being p<0.05).

          On the plus side lockdown is clearly containing the outbreak though the goal of getting out of lockdown is not looking any closer.

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    David Maddison

    Any audiophiles out there?

    What do people use to play legacy media such as vinyl, CD’s and cassette tapes? Is there any new “all in one” hi fi systems being made these days?

    I just tried to turn on my legacy surround sound six speaker Sony hi fi system from the early 1990’s, it having been in storage for over a decade, and it doesn’t work now, so I would like a new replacement but these type of systems no longer seem to be available.

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    • #
      Analitik

      I have casual H/T system of front cheap bookshelf speakers + inceiling rears + car sub for every day TV/movies.

      My serious system is full separate component stereo + rear bookshelf + H/T sub (phantom center). The mains are full range floorstanders made by a friend who I was an agent for before the GFC destroyed the local audio industry. I haven’t used the cassette deck nor the turntable in over a decade.

      10

      • #

        Have you tried playing old tapes? erk

        10

        • #
          Analitik

          I used to use chromium dioxide tapes with Dolby B noise reduction at a recording level just below the distortion threshold indicated on the deck. A friend who I once gave a tape to said that he found my recording levels lower than normal but that when he adjusted the volume up and listened through headphones, my tape was far lower for hiss than any others he had heard (this was in the days of vinyl).

          But digital recordings are far more convenient.

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          • #
            clarence.t

            I still have my old all Yamaha system in the spare room.

            Cassette deck, CD player, stereo amp and direct drive Turntable with Shure M95 cartridge,
            and custom-built loudspeaker. I know the TT and CD still work well, one day I may check the cassette deck, if I can find where the box of old cassettes is !

            Lounge room audio system has line array speakers with active bass, very much a different sort of set-up. Other end of the room has the TV and surround sound system.

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    • #

      Depends on how deep your pockets are. An amp and speakers can connect to new versions of those just like they did in the old days. Even under $500 each component can give you a good product. ebay is the place to make savings, especially on a good quality amp. I’d be wary of turntables and tape decks second hand.

      Lots of gadgets like usb enabled cassette players and turntables if you want to digitise it all. I’ve not gone down that path but I imagine it to be a quagmire of quality versus price versus convenience.

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      clarence.t

      David.. you are really in my area now ! 🙂

      I’ll come back later, some work to do first.

      21

    • #
      clarence.t

      “a new replacement but these type of systems no longer seem to be available.”

      Say what ? Just search for “AV amplifiers”, hundreds of them. 🙂

      Most will be capable of operating in pure stereo mode. (best for listing to music IMO)

      Cassette decks and tape decks are available on eBay, but a very iffy proposition because the heads tend to demagnitise, and the mechanicals then to get sloppy and out of alignment over time.

      Turntables, plenty available from reasonable to insanely expensive.

      Plenty of CD players about from moderate to insanely expensive.

      You can also get a big step-up in digital sound quality from a laptop by using something like a “Dragonfly” DAC

      Second hand CD player are also a pot luck item, because lasers and mechanicals wear out, belts stretch break and are fiddly or expensive to repair. Some brands are easy to fix, eg I just replaced the laser in a Marantz CD-74 Special Edition for just the cost of the laser unit ($25). Others need specialist equipment to get the alignment correct.

      Sony speakers back then, were generally OK, but you need to check the driver surrounds have not perished or been damaged.

      Check to see if your speakers are working by a brief touch connection using a 1.5v battery on the speaker terminals (don’t hold it on)… you should hear a small “pop” sound

      Hope that helps.

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    Single Malt

    Funny how serious reactions to covid jabs are always ‘extremely rare’ according to news stories. Pity they don’t tell the millions of under 50’s getting the jab that serious illness or death from covid itself is ‘extremely rare’
    .

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      Sceptical Sam

      Funny how serious reactions to covid jabs are always ‘extremely rare’

      That’s because they are:

      1. Deaths in the UK from Covid vaccines = 1,536

      2. Number of injections given in the UK = 84,457,622

      Hence, death from injection of the vaccine = 0.00182%

      https://johnplatinumgoss.com/covid-19-vaccination-statistics/

      2. Current case fatality in the UK (Death from Covid-19) = 2.1%

      https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

      Take care crossing the road, Single Malt.

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        OldOzzie

        Seven News reporter Denham Hitchcock is rushed to hospital with extremely rare inflammation of the heart after getting the Pfizer Covid shot – but still urges Australians to get vaccinated so borders can reopen

        . Channel 7 reporter Denham Hitchcock suffering from heart condition after jab
        . Hitchcock got Pfizer vaccine several weeks ago and had persisting symptoms
        . He suffered from racing heart, pins and needles and dizziness over weeks
        . Journalist was eventually hospitalised and diagnosed with pericarditis
        . Condition is inflammation of sac-like tissue that surrounds the heart

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        yarpos

        comparing death rate from vaccines (effectively the whole population)

        with the death rate from Covid cases (a small subset of the populations)

        apples/oranges

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        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          So tell us, how would you measure the the comparative risk of death, yarpos?

          01

          • #
            yarpos

            If I was presenting numbers like that I would use a consistent base or the %s means nothing.

            Your overall risk of dying from Covid is related to the overall population. The risk of death if you become a case is of course higher, but just another factoid if the starting point for the comparison is injections (more related to population, I’m guessing 84M means 42M people with double shots) If you know the age group getting injections then you can make a reasonable comparison for discussion.

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            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Well go on. Do it.

              Then discussion can occur as you wish.

              In the interim, the statistics are what they are, and tell a strong story for getting vaccinated.

              01

              • #
                yarpos

                Why would I? its your story, just pointing out the stats as presented are basically a false equivalence, but if you are happy that they support your position so be it.

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                Sceptical Sam

                That’s a cop-out yarpos.

                You’re the one wanting to slice and dice the stats differently. It’s up to you to show that the results would somehow be different.

                Look at it this way:

                You’ve got one population.

                A segment gets vaccinated, catch the virus and die at rate X.

                Another segment don’t get vaccinated, catch the virus and die at a rate X+N.

                Same population, different outcomes.

                No false equivalence at all.

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    Raving

    If Australia hopes to achieve herd immunity, it will require at least 3 universally mandated jabs.

    Two jabs are insufficient, given dwindling effectiveness

    https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/herd-immunity-no-longer-possible-without-vaccinating-young-children-public-health-ontario-says-1.5560431

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    • #
      RossP

      The third jab or booster is considered so very indistinguishable from the first jabs that FDA is saying there is no need to go through normal procedures. So therefore you expect the booster or third jab to have dwindling effectiveness as well. So how many boosters are going to be required? One every six months forever ?

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        Raving

        The public heath now says 100% of eligable vaccinated (12 yro and up) and 90% of the entire population (Newborn and up) to reach herd immunity. If they make universal vaccination thr law, it will require a 3rd dose because the vsccineceffectiveness dwindles …. and probably more after thst to maintain the herd immunity.

        So it comes down to forcing 3+ jabs by law to stop covid.

        In short whatvthey are asking forvis extremecand ultimately ridiculous. Itvwill come down to forcing vaccinations every year. once they start it will be hard to go back

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          Raving

          They might as well force universal vaccination for hepatitis and everything else. There is no end to the increasing extremeness that people are demanding

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        MP

        I saw a study from one of the Pharma mob that shows a booster will be required every 3 months.
        Bill Gates stated one a month, so he has not been wrong yet.

        Your app will alert you when to go and join the flock, got to keep that green tick.

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      PeterS

      A similar letter ought to be sent to the police force. They are supposed to serve and protect us, not act like thugs and intimidate us. Not all of course are bad, just a certain element where power has gone to their head.

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      Peter C

      Thanks Rod,

      As far as I know that letter has not been sent officially.

      10

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        Peter C

        I thought that CMN was going to send the letter to all doctors in Australia.
        It looks now as though they decided to pst it on their website instead.

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    RossP

    This is how desperate Big pharma are in the USA to stop antivirals being used. It appears the FDA has instructed UPS to stop deliveries of Ivermectin.

    https://centipedenation.com/first-column/did-the-fda-instruct-usps-to-seize-and-destroy-ivermectin-shipments/

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    David Maddison

    For those in the prison states, Vicdanistan and NSW here is some interesting lock up viewing.

    It is about a population of redheaded people in NZ who predate the Maori and the descendants of whom still exist today.

    From the caption of the video: “who were the Urukehu – the redheads of New Zealand. Where did they come from and what evidence is there of them today?”

    https://youtu.be/rf_inGOubEg PART 1

    https://youtu.be/g15ROUH3gAQ PART 2

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    el gordo

    Beijing on a hiding to nothing.

    ‘Embassy in Washington publishes commentary before release of US intelligence report on Covid-19’s origins, dismissing Wuhan lab leak theory. It says US media rejected its attempts to explain China’s position and repeats Beijing’s claims that the virus may have come from US labs.’ (SCMP)

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    el gordo

    Get your vax passport in order, it’ll all be over by Xmas.

    ‘How Qantas will fly to US, UK, Fiji by Christmas. The airline has set out six main routes that would return first as it promises to get its A380s out of storage early if Australia opens up from December.’ (Oz)

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    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      “If”.

      And, if not? What?

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        el gordo

        Admittedly its ongoing. the blind leading the blind, but it should tentatively return to normalcy once we reach herd immunity.

        ‘A shocking new study from Israel compares the protection offered by vaccine-induced immunity versus natural immunity from a previous COVID-19 infection and finds the latter offers far more robust protection from infection, symptomatic disease, and hospitalization.

        ‘Natural immunity confers much longer lasting protection.’

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        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Maybe so.

          However, you fail to mention the fact that 2.0 – 3.0% of people who catch Covid-19 die of Covid-19.

          In the pursuit of “natural” immunity, those deaths are OK by you are they?

          01

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    another ian

    “Large Sample Study Shows Natural Immunity Confers Stronger and Longer Lasting Immunity Than Vaccine – Which Again Defeats The Ridiculous Premise of Vaccine Passports
    August 25, 2021 | Sundance | 103 Comments”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/25/large-sample-study-shows-natural-immunity-confers-stronger-and-longer-lasting-immunity-than-vaccine-which-again-defeats-the-ridiculous-premise-of-vaccine-passports/

    And “More Oz viewed from afar”

    “COVID Madness Down Under – New South Wales (Sydney) Will Permit One Hour of Outdoor Recreation Time for Vaccinated Persons, While Queensland (Brisbane) Builds Quarantine Camp
    August 26, 2021 | Sundance | 15 Comments”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/26/covid-madness-down-under-new-south-wales-sydney-will-permit-one-hour-of-outdoor-recreation-time-for-vaccinated-persons-while-queensland-brisbane-builds-quarantine-camp/#comments

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      PeterS

      So, does that mean those who are tested positive (even though they might be false but hey they say it’s positive and hence they have to be in quarantine) ought to get something similar to a vaccination passport that gives them at least the same freedoms or more than those with vaccination passports? I think that would only be fair and reasonable. Otherwise, it would make a mockery of the whole show.

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      Sceptical Sam

      Study Shows Natural Immunity Confers Stronger and Longer Lasting Immunity Than Vaccine

      But you have to survive the infection to get the “natural immunity”.

      2.0% don’t.

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        el gordo

        … and yet there are complications with natural immunity.

        ‘After 12 months, 20 per cent of the patients were still experiencing the most common symptoms of fatigue or muscle weakness, according to the peer-reviewed study published in The Lancet medical journal on Thursday. It found 17 per cent had difficulty sleeping and 11 per cent suffered hair loss.

        “While most had made a good recovery, health problems persisted in some patients, especially those who had been critically ill during their hospital stay,” said co-author Cao Bin, from the National Centre for Respiratory Medicine at the China-Japan Friendship Hospital in Beijing.’ (SCMP)

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  • #
    Chad

    Will reducing fossil fuel use actually ACCELLERATE global warming effects.?
    Some discussion here on the cooling effects of sulphates in FF emmissions and what could happen if they stop .. using data from the IPCC themselves !
    https://youtu.be/emn1hBSHUfQ
    ..

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      clarence.t

      Except the world is not reducing fossil fuel use.

      The climate racketeers know that a cooling period is starting, so we will see more attempted justifications for the failure to warm.

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        Chad

        Clarence,..did you watch the vid ?
        No, it is not an excuse for any possible reduction in global temps .
        The point is that data in the IPCC report clearly shows that emissions from Fossil Fuels ( Sulphates) ,.are known to.have a VERY strong COOLING effect in the atmosphere, and reducing those emissions could result in a much bigger and faster increase in Global temperatures that would not be cancelled out by the reduction in CO2 .
        So the IPCC have got themselves into a “Catch 22” situation…
        They believe that CO2 from FFuels are the primary cause of global warming..
        BUT.. they also know that reducing sulphates from F Fuel use can result in even more warming..much faster !

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    Dave

    Question for the medical experts here:

    Can vaccinated individuals shed or transmit exosomes, basically, the spike protein?

    And so is shedding of the virus by vaccinated people more dangerous than shedding by unvaccinated people?

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      Serp

      This is my question about cohabitation; should the unvaccinated residents undergo a couple of weeks of ivermectin and zinc?

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      beowulf

      See the Pfizer doc below for their vaccine testing protocols, especially in section 8.3.5. See what you make of it.

      https://cdn.pfizer.com/pfizercom/2020-11/C4591001_Clinical_Protocol_Nov2020.pdf

      For instance:
      8.3.5.1. Exposure During Pregnancy
      An EDP occurs if:
      • A female participant is found to be pregnant while receiving or after discontinuing study intervention.
      A male participant who is receiving or has discontinued study intervention exposes a female partner prior to or around the time of conception.
      A female is found to be pregnant while being exposed or having been exposed to study intervention due to environmental exposure.

      Below are examples of environmental exposure during pregnancy:

      • A female family member or healthcare provider reports that she is pregnant after having been exposed to the study intervention by inhalation or skin contact
      A male family member or healthcare provider who has been exposed to the study intervention by inhalation or skin contact then exposes his female partner prior to or around the time of conception.

      6. STUDY INTERVENTION Study intervention is defined as any investigational intervention(s), marketed product(s), placebo, medical device(s), or study procedure(s) intended to be administered to a study participant according to the study protocol.

      How does a male who has been “exposed” by inhalation or skin contact then pose a risk to his partner? And environmental exposure to what? Are they referring to inhalation and skin absorption of the vaccine or of something emanating from those vaccinated? From their definition it would appear to be the latter. What do others think?

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    KenS

    JO – Thank-you for hosting Rafe.
    Oh how I miss Catallaxy. My first port of call with a morning coffee to get news and realistic opinions on current events. Does anyone know where Steve Kates and Currencylad might now be posting their usually-sensible and always-interesting contributions to the debate in Australia ?

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    OldOzzie

    BidenOmics – Inflation Rampant

    When President Donald J. Trump left office, the average price for a large French fry at McDonald’s was $1.89. A double quarter pounder with cheese cost $4.79, a Big Mac $3.99, Filet O Fish $3.79.

    As millions of Americans who frequent the fast-food chain today have probably recognized, their bill is much higher. A large French fry averages $3.89 – a whopping 106% increase from just a year ago. A double quarter pounder with cheese is now $6.79, a Big Mac $5.59, Filet O Fish $5.29 – all about $2 higher than 2020.

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    OldOzzie

    Beijing Blackmail? Biden Reverses Trump Sanctions on CCP-Affiliated Tech Firm

    The time has come to ask: Is Presidentish Joe Biden being blackmailed by foreign powers?

    It’s a troubling idea that been at the backs of many people’s minds, but it popped to the very front of mine with yesterday’s news that Biden will at least partly de-sanction Communist Chinese tech giant Huawei.

    First, a little background. Huawei owes its success to industrial espionage against former Canadian tech giant Nortel. Huawei stole all the intellectual property it could from Nortel, under the guise of being a friendly “manufacturing partner” in Communist-controlled mainland China.

    Huawei then copied Nortel’s business model and forced them into bankruptcy in 2009 before being finally dissolved in 2010.

    Since then, Huawei has done worse, allegedly embedding spy routines in its 5G cellular radio gear.

    In short, Huawei is run by spies and thieves for the benefit of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).

    The first American president to actually do anything about Huawei was Donald Trump, who set the company back on its heels with crippling sanctions.

    This week, just as Biden is preparing to meet with Big Tech CEOs on the vital issue of cyber security, our new-and-disimproved POTUS has approved “license applications worth hundreds of millions of dollars for China’s blacklisted telecom company.”

    It was the loss of access to American and Taiwanese chips that had crippled Huawei, which now looks poised to come bouncing back against Western tech firms.

    Seriously, is he being blackmailed, or what?

    “Literally everyone is thinking it,” is how one of my PJ Media colleagues put it privately.

    Another of my PJ Media colleagues — whose name I won’t mention until they give me permission to stick it on this quote — asked in our Slack channel today: “Harder and harder not to credit the hunter laptop blackmail theory, isn’t it?”

    So where will Biden fold next?

    It’s impossible to say, but I will say that I’m praying for our Taiwanese friends and hope they have solid bugout plans in place.

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    TedM

    9.1.2.1.4 “Nice that post infection vaccines boost immunity further.” They temporarily boost antibodies.

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    OldOzzie

    Washington Times Editorial – Australia’s pursuit of ‘zero-COVID’

    The failed Australian model

    ANALYSIS/OPINION:

    It appears we now live in a COVID-19 world. The virus isn’t going away, in fact, it’s mutating. Like every flu season, many scientists predict there will be a COVID-19 season. We need to learn to live with the virus, not in fear of it.

    Australia seems to be having a difficult time grasping this reality. It’s pursued a ‘zero-COVID’ strategy and is in total lockdown until 70% of its population is vaccinated. At 80%, statewide lockdowns will be eliminated and some international travel will be allowed. The country’s leaders have hinted that reopening could happen as soon as late October, but there are no promises. COVID-19 cases have surged to 750 per day in the past week in Sydney.

    Meanwhile, Australia’s citizens are living in a police-run state. Scores have been arrested for attending anti-lockdown protests, where officers fire pellet guns and use pepper spray to disperse the crowds. Soldiers march through the streets to ensure nightly curfews are not violated. Compliance checkpoints have been assembled in local neighborhoods. Fines for breaking certain rules have risen to $3,700. Playgrounds have been closed; businesses shuttered. Economists predict Australia’s latest round of lockdowns will cost around $12.5 billion.

    Australia appears to be going through its own Stanford Prison Experiment, where college students were separated into two groups: prison guards and prisoners in 1971. The psychology test had to be ended after only six days, as the student guards became increasingly sadistic, and its “prisoners” depressed and showing extreme signs of stress. Empower the man, and he will take more. Diminish the citizen, and they’ll learn to take less.

    Yet, in some areas of the country, tensions are running high. This weekend, thousands of protesters turned up in Sydney’s city center, despite warnings and checkpoints by the police. In Melbourne, hundreds of people marched through the city, defying local authorities. And in Brisbane, thousands gathered in the city’s botanic gardens.

    The country’s leaders are aghast. The virus continues to spread. Some of Australia’s Premiers have recently admitted even with very strict lockdowns and 99% public compliance, they cannot stop the delta variant.

    But that doesn’t mean they’re not going to try. Curfews have been extended, and residents are only allowed to leave their homes for essential activities like shopping for food and medicine or getting a vaccination.

    Australia’s ‘Zero-COVID’ policy is draconian, irrational, anti-scientific, and a good example of elected leaders using the pandemic to flex their political power. Americans should take heed of what’s happening there – for it should never be allowed in this country.

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      OldOzzie

      Australia appears to be going through its own Stanford Prison Experiment, where college students were separated into two groups: prison guards and prisoners in 1971. The psychology test had to be ended after only six days, as the student guards became increasingly sadistic, and its “prisoners” depressed and showing extreme signs of stress. Empower the man, and he will take more. Diminish the citizen, and they’ll learn to take less.

      Seen in Inspector Lewis – Season 9 Episode 1: One for Sorrow

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    another ian

    WOW! It can happen!

    “Charlie
    Reply to
    Bruce Cobb
    August 19, 2021 10:13 am
    A strictly for the money from gullible wealthy people fraud.

    An environmental scientist who was jailed for his role in Britain’s biggest ever tax fraud has had 10 years added onto his prison sentence after failing to pay back millions of pounds.

    Oxbridge graduate fraudster gets another 10 years in prison for not paying back £11m stolen funds | Daily Mail Online”

    In comments at

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/08/19/the-ipccs-attribution-methodology-is-fundamentally-flawed/

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      Sceptical Sam

      If they gaoled all the climate fraudsters, the gaols would soon be chockers.

      This lot’s mistake was two-fold. They encouraged their victims to rip off the tax-office; and they weren’t paid up members of the Greens.

      Fix those two errors and the world’s your oyster.

      How?

      Scheme 1.

      Raise funds from the vulnerable, naive, brainwashed, for the construction of a world-wide system of wave energy generators. Build a few unseaworthy floating jokes. Wait ’til they sink. Pay you and your comrades big salaries and consulting fees every month on the way through. Keep on doing it until the company runs out of funds or the numbies wake up (which is pretty rare). Declare bankruptcy.

      Wash. Repeat.

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    another ian

    A Moscow “How to do it”

    “About 40 state legislatures are now following Governor Ron DeSantis’ lead in Florida by moving to ban vaccine passports. But some states and cities are already implementing vaccine passports – and it looks like the puppet-masters running the Biden regime are going to try to force a federal vaccine passport on us very soon. They’ve got to keep their COVID quackery in place through 2022, so they can pull the same election shenanigans as they did last year.

    What are we as free Americans to do about this? Well, we already have one good example of citizens defeating a tyrant mayor’s vaccine passports – in Russia, of all places.

    You’ve probably heard of the Excelsior Pass, which is now mandatory in New York City thanks to Pothead Bill DeBlasio, the city’s mayor. Once a person is vaccinated, they can have their HIPAA rights and their constitutionally protected right to travel preserved by getting a QR code on their phone. If you don’t have a QR code, Pothead Bill won’t let you go to a restaurant or do lots of other stuff.

    The Mayor of Moscow Russia, a guy named Sergei Sobyanin, thought that Pothead Bill’s commie QR code idea was just ducky. So, Sobyanin made vaccination QR code passports mandatory on the 1st of July this year. Mayor Sobyanin apparently doesn’t smoke as much pot as Pothead Bill, so his vaccine passport plan was actually less restrictive than Pothead Bill’s. For example, if you’ve already had coronavirus, you are immune to it. You have better immunity than any vaccine can provide. So, Moscow citizens who have had coronavirus and recovered can get a QR code just like a vaccinated person can.

    Just like in New York City, it suddenly became illegal for dirty unvaccinated second-class citizens to go certain places. Moscow residents were no longer allowed to eat at restaurants, get their hair cut, go to a movie theater, stay in a hotel, work out at a gym, have a beer at the tavern after work, or get their fingernails done at a nail salon. If they didn’t have a QR code, they were banned from participating in many aspects of the city’s economy.

    Here’s how they crushed Mayor Sobyanin’s vaccine passport – and it was pretty simple. Moscow residents simply stopped frequenting any business that required a vaccine passport. The really beautiful thing about this was that the vaccinated people stood in solidarity with the unvaccinated. Business trickled to near zero at all establishments where the vaccine passport was required.

    Moscow residents let their hair grow out, skipped going to bars and restaurants, didn’t go to the movies, didn’t stay in hotels or do anything else that required a vaccine passport. Business owners from all over the city were suddenly calling Mayor Sobyanin’s office to chew his ear off about the vaccine passports. They were going broke, and they were mad as **** about it.

    Marina Zemskova, the head of a regional hotel and restaurant association in Russia, said the vaccine passport turned out to be worse for business than a full lockdown. At least if there was another lockdown, she notes, businesses “could count on some kind of government support measures.”

    There’s no government support coming under a vaccine passport system. What the not-very-elite elites failed to anticipate about Moscow residents was they would simply not participate in the scam at all. The business owners were so infuriated with the mayor that Sobyanin made a sudden, surprise announcement on July 19th that nobody needs to use a vaccine passport anymore. He made up a hilarious excuse, claiming that COVID case rates were all better suddenly, as the reason for lifting the QR code passports.

    But everyone knew the truth. Moscow residents decided that their medical privacy and their right to travel is more important than whatever the people in charge were telling them. It was a massive case of civil disobedience – and they didn’t even have to go outside and set things on fire in a big protest. All they did was say, “Any business that wants to see a vaccine passport from me is not getting any of my money.”

    That’s how you do it, Americans! Vaccine passports are the new Jim Crow, and we don’t have to take it. Want to beat the CoronaTyrants at their own game? Just do like the Russians did. Refuse to participate in the Fauci/Biden mandates.

    Maybe this should be taken to heart here in the USA. Several sites have the story. ”

    https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/140072-a-post-covid-world-now/page/37/?tab=comments#comment-1597983

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      PeterS

      That’s how I was going to approach it. I’ll just boycott any business that demands I show a vaccine passport. Most things can be bought on-line anyway. Businesses demanding customers to show their vaccine passport are very likely going to regret it.

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      Analitik

      It was similar in Paris. For the first couple of days after the vaccine passports were required, restaurants and bars and cafes were empty. After that, they stopped checking people and even provided fake passports if the police came for a spot check.

      People will only take so much. When Gladys introduces it in NSW, then the real pushback will start. Victorians will just let back and let Red Dan keep stomping on our rights – some seen to enjoy it.

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      MP

      All it takes is for everyone not to comply and this ends.

      10

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    another ian

    I just saw a headline (IIRC) about “Biden folds again”

    Any origami practitioners who can add some “in terminology”?

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    Saighdear

    Net-Zero, Energy, Hydrogen, “The Engineer” & Other “Professional” magazines, etc. Enough to put you off your Lunch:- getting a survey invitation in the Mail https://duckduckgo.com/?q=The-Engineer-Net-Zero-Survey-August-2021&t=opera&ia=web
    Oh how it stinks! All preset to acccept the nonsense of Climate change, etc etc.
    1. https://www.ice.org.uk/news-and-insight/the-civil-engineer/august-2021/carbon-project-scale-net-zero-2050-challenge
    2.https://www.theengineer.co.uk and their survey @ https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/6488275/The-Engineer-Net-Zero-Survey-August-2021

    Disclaimer : ‘this comment may lead to unforseen effects of the mind’ I’m a person from Nigg ! not Biggar, or Wick!

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    PeterS

    Looks like the Taliban are too soft and ISIS-K are going to attack the Taliban. Airport now under threat. What a mess.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpcSnlzXGhc

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      David Maddison

      ISIS to attack the Taliban.

      I love it when they start eating each other.

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        WXcycles

        It’s been happening all over Africa and the ME for years, IS insists it’s the one and only true IS group, and all other groups must join it, or die. Which produces constant brutal fights between the various IS extremist groups. The reality is they’re all criminal gangs, and in it for the loot and criminal operations side-lines, so it’s just criminals fighting other criminals for a turf, and they all know it. The religion is the excuse and a cheap way to attract fools to work and fight for the criminals at the top.

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      yarpos

      The warm brotherhood of the religion of peace. Hard to believe its the 21st century.

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    CHRIS

    WRT Bidenomics…with this Alzeihmers President in charge, it will eventually cost a bucket full of $100 notes to buy a Big Mac. Just like the 1920s. AHHH…nostalgia.

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    Vlad the Impaler

    Ten A.M. Mountain USA time, Thursday, 26 August 2021:

    Reports from Kabul coming in of live fire taking place, at least some wounded, no info on any fatalities.

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    I am providing complete coverage of what will likely become major Hurricane Ida in the United States here: http://www.mikesmithenterprisesblog.com

    My latest update: http://www.mikesmithenterprisesblog.com/2021/08/918am-gulf-hurricane-outlook.html

    A great book about hurricanes and severe weather in the United States: https://www.amazon.com/Warnings-Story-Science-Tamed-Weather/dp/1608320340/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

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    David Maddison

    Imagine being a Leftist and daily trying to convince yourself that Biden is the best and most popular US president ever…

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      another ian

      “He lead his regiment from behind

      He found it less exciting”

      Maybe time for new words to that song as “A Battle Hymn of the C-in-C”?

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        another ian

        And from R.V. Jones “Most Secret War” (about 1929)

        “He warned us that if another war broke out there would be a disastrous period for six months while those who had reached high positions on inadequate qualities in peacetime would have to be replaced”.

        Ain’t we got that in a lay-down misere!

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    David Maddison

    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/08/the_good_newsa_covid19_update.html

    August 25, 2021

    The Good News—A COVID-19 Update

    By Thomas T. Siler, M.D.

    Now that we have had 18 months to “slow the spread” it is time to take stock of the pandemic. We have learned many good things that the media and our pandemic managers rarely report. Most fundamentally, we do not need to be afraid of COVID-19 anymore. The media and some government health authorities are still pushing hysteria and fear, but that should not prevail. Let’s look at the good news that can calm our fears about COVID-19. There’ll be time at a later date to look at the bad and the ugly of the resolving pandemic.

    SEE LIMK FOR REST

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    another ian

    Jo probably gets plenty of these

    “Beware The FUDsters…”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2021/08/26/beware-the-fudsters/#comment-149500

    An attempt on ivermectin

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    another ian

    More “duck and cover” coming up?

    “Great Barrier Reef Sea Surface Temperature: No Change In 150 Years”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/08/26/great-barrier-reef-sea-surface-temperature-no-change-in-150-years/

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    David Maddison

    In California the Left have become even more deranged. They are calling conservative Black gubernatorial candidate Larry Elder “the Black face of white supremacy”. Absolutely nuts!

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/20/los-angeles-times-column-larry-elder-black-face-wh/

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    David Maddison

    Questions for all those advocating massive lock ups to fight the virus:

    Qualifications: All people should be given vitamin D if deficient although most people in Australia in winter would be anyway. All people to be given an option of the partially
    effective vaccine with unknown long term effects or safe anti-viral treatment or prophylaxis therapy such as with HCQ or IVM according to published protocols. Since these drugs are so safe, even make an emergency use authorisation to post them to every address in Australia without a prescription. Protect, through partial isolation the truly vulnerable such as the elderly, obese and immune compromised. Let everyone else go free as in BC (before covid) times

    Questions: 1) As Australia already has by far the strictest lock up and fine regime in the world (utterly oblivious to the cost, economic or social damage being done) what is your preferred lock up model?

    2) Do you accept that at some point we have to live with the virus? Even the PM is saying that (or rather his minders are telling him to say that some he is a mostly cluelesscand weak fence sitter). It will become endemic just like colds and flu and will naturally mutate to a less virulent form or disappear, unless the Chicomms release version 2.

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    David Maddison

    I keep saying of the Left, NEVER say how much dumber can they get.

    They see it as a challenge.

    https://westernstandardonline.com/2021/08/watch-trudeau-womens-minister-calls-taliban-our-brothers/

    NEWSWATCH: Trudeau Women’s Minister calls Taliban ‘our brothers’

    Women and Gender Equality Minister Maryam Monsef has stirred up a hornet’s nest by referring to the murderous Taliban regime as “our brothers.”

    Monsef made the comment as four cabinet ministers were updating the situation on the ground in Afghanistan where the Taliban have retaken to the country, days after the Americans announced they were pulling out.

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    another ian

    More “Oz from the outside”- and NOT a good look

    “The nightmare of the bureaucratic “nanny state” is that it has no conscience”

    https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2021/08/the-nightmare-of-bureaucratic-nanny.html

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      David Maddison

      I wrote a letter to the CEO of the Council about that:

      To xxx,

      Not withstanding the spin you put in your media release on the “justification” of killing of dogs under your care, it is really not good enough. COVID lockup and travel restrictions notwithstanding, there were options.

      I am sure with a bit of independent thinking outside of a ruthlessly strict adherence to bureaucratic rules and procedures you could have found an appropriate solution.

      For example, I believe that even under COVID lockup rules it is permitted to travel for the purpose of animal care. Carers could have been found to collect the animals. If not, an exemption could have been obtained, and if even that were not given, you could have publicised the predicament of the dogs to bring pressure on the authorities to allow the rehoming of the dogs.

      The blind obedience to “rules and regulations” and the unwillingness or inability to think independently “outside the box” always leads to atrocities of a much greater magnitude than this. Usually against people.

      Note that the story of the atrocity committed to the dogs under your care has gone worldwide and people are disgusted, although, fortunately for your council, but unfortunately for the dogs, few Australian media outlets reported it.

      Sincerely,

      Dr David Maddison

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    David Maddison

    As I said above “I keep saying of the Left, NEVER say how much dumber can they get. They see it as a challenge.”

    https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-taliban-seat-un-commission-171600571.html

    EXCLUSIVE: Taliban seat on UN Commission on the Status of Women is ‘likely,’ John Bolton says

    Timothy Nerozzi

    August 25, 2021, 3:16 am

    The Taliban, who have a notorious history of oppression and violence toward women, are poised to seat a representative on the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women should they form a recognized Afghan government, a former U.N. ambassador says.

    After a swift takeover of Afghanistan by the Taliban terror group, as well as deposed Afghan President Ashraf Ghani’s escape to the United Arab Emirates, the future of Afghanistan’s leadership, and by extent its representation in global organizations, is uncertain, says John Bolton, the former U.S. ambassador to the U.N.

    SEE LINK FOR REST

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      Furiously Curious

      Wow! John Bolton has a sense of humour!

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      Sceptical Sam

      Well, the lefties keep telling us how important diversity is.

      The Taliban have a view on the status of women – and a record of behaviour to prove it.

      It would be hypocritical of the lefties, who make up the UN, not to have that view represented on the UN’s Commission on the Status of Women, wouldn’t it?

      And, everybody knows that the lefties never indulge in hypocrisy, don’t they?

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    el gordo

    BoM makes stuff up.

    ‘Across tropical Northern Australia, it has been very warm through winter, with Darwin having its earliest 35-degree day on record. “Australia’s average winter temperature is also expected to be one of the 10 warmest on record — as much as it hasn’t felt it at times, particularly in the south,” Dr Watkins said. (ABC)

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      David Maddison

      https://jennifermarohasy.com/2019/02/changes-to-darwins-climate-history-are-not-logical/

      Changes to Darwin’s Climate History are Not Logical

      February 23, 2019 By jennifer

      THE hubris of the Australian Bureau of Meteorology is on full display with its most recent remodelling of the historic temperature record for Darwin. The Bureau has further dramatically increased the rate of global warming at Darwin by further artificially lowering historic temperatures.

      This begins by shortening the historical temperature record so that it begins just after the very hot years of the Federation drought. Then by changing the daily values: that is changing the observed measured temperatures to something else.

      For example, on 1st January 1910 the maximum temperature recorded at the Darwin post office was 34.2 degrees Celsius.

      A few years ago, the Bureau changed this to 33.8 degrees Celsius, cooling the recorded temperature by 0.4 degrees. In its most recent re-revision of Darwin’s climate history the temperature on this day has been further reduced, and is now just 32.8.

      SEE LINK FOR REST

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      WXcycles

      The current winter has been incredibly humid and thus warm, in NQ. By far the warmest winter I’ve experienced in 50 years, there’s not been a winter like it before, IMO. Sleeping at night with the fan on full, no clothing and only a sheet over me. This has never happened before, not even close.

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    David Maddison

    The basis of this paper is that experimental vaccine recipients should be given full disclosure. Fair enough.

    Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID-19 vaccines worsening clinical disease

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33113270/

    Results of the study: COVID-19 vaccines designed to elicit neutralising antibodies may sensitise vaccine recipients to more severe disease than if they were not vaccinated. Vaccines for SARS, MERS and RSV have never been approved, and the data generated in the development and testing of these vaccines suggest a serious mechanistic concern: that vaccines designed empirically using the traditional approach (consisting of the unmodified or minimally modified coronavirus viral spike to elicit neutralising antibodies), be they composed of protein, viral vector, DNA or RNA and irrespective of delivery method, may worsen COVID-19 disease via antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). This risk is sufficiently obscured in clinical trial protocols and consent forms for ongoing COVID-19 vaccine trials that adequate patient comprehension of this risk is unlikely to occur, obviating truly informed consent by subjects in these trials.

    Conclusions drawn from the study and clinical implications: The specific and significant COVID-19 risk of ADE should have been and should be prominently and independently disclosed to research subjects currently in vaccine trials, as well as those being recruited for the trials and future patients after vaccine approval, in order to meet the medical ethics standard of patient comprehension for informed consent.

    SEE LINK FOR REST

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    Wirebird

    Not good news: The FLCCC’s early treatment protocol for covid Delta has just been updated 26/8/21 to include more pharmaceuticals, so it seems less accessible. Also, higher doses of ivermectin.
    https://covid19criticalcare.com/

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    • #
      Vicki Sanderson

      Yes. Last week they expressed concern that standard protocol was not working well for Delta.

      So much, unfortunately, for the initial belief that it was more infectious but less deadly.

      Reminds me of Jo’s words some time ago that COVID could have “more tricks up its sleeves”.

      Or it may be the ADE effect.

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      OldOzzie

      Probably a very Dumb Question, but given the emphasis of Covid-19 in the Nasal Passages and suggestion of Iodine Nasal Spray in FLCCC’s early treatment protocol

      I broke my nose in the school yard playing when 13, never got it fixed, and since then have always breathed through my mouth (Played Rugby League/Union and represented school in Athletics, setting U15 Mile Record which stood for 18 years-always breathing through mouth)

      Tried Rhinoplasty Surgery boring out the bone in 1989 (B’Painful) but did not work and still breathe through mouth.

      What effect, if any, would this have on Susceptibility to Covid-19?

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    Environment Sceptic

    “Human Intervention In Pandemic
    “3 views
    “Aug 27, 2021

    “Murray Wiseman
    “58 subscribers
    “Summarizes Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche’s treatise on the nature of pandemic and the effect of mass vaccination.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcCnHxsObRA

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    OldOzzie

    Biden: ‘They gave me a list here, the first person I was instructed to call on’ was NBC reporter

    President Biden said at Thursday’s press conference on the fatal day in Afghanistan that he had been told by others what reporters to let question him.

    “They gave me a list here, the first person I was instructed to call on was Kelly O’Donnell, NBC,” he said.

    Conservative commentators quickly took the words and the president’s halting diction as confirmation of their longstanding belief that Mr. Biden is a puppet and not really in charge at the White House.

    “Who instructed him? Was that also the Taliban,” asked Greg Gutfeld on Fox News Channel immediately after.

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      Furiously Curious

      It’s a bit of an indictment of the US system isn’t it, that it takes a delusional person, who thinks he is President, to behave like one. He’d always wanted out of Afghanistan, and he did it. Unfortunately our feckless allies, and a bunch of grifters, are in trouble. (Isn’t feckless a great word for this circumstance? -irresponsible, useless, incompetent, feeble, worthless, ineffectual, aimless, good for nothing…..) How do we manage to constantly pick these people? And as for American prestige, and our standing by our allies. Has everyone got
      ADHD? Twenty two months ago Trump threw the Kurds under the bus. And the Kurds are staunch! Their girls would eat the Afghan army. And with barely a murmur he shoved them out of the chopper. What did he say? Aww, they never helped us in WW11! American prestige has taken a hit? Political masturbation!

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    WXcycles

    Pfizer or fizzer?

    Vaccinated 27x More Likely To Be Symptomatically Infected Than Unvaccinated Who’ve Had COVID

    By Kenneth Richard on 26. August 2021

    A shocking new study from Israel compares the protection offered by vaccine-induced immunity versus natural immunity from a previous COVID-19 infection and finds the latter offers far more robust protection from infection, symptomatic disease, and hospitalization. Natural immunity confers much longer lasting protection

    Directly comparing 16,215 previously COVID-19 infected individuals to 16,215 fully vaccinated individuals, 10 physicians (Gazit et al., 2021) preliminarily report (pre-print) fully vaccinated people are (a) 13 times more likely to be infected with COVID-19, (b) 27 times more likely to be symptomatically infected, and (c) 8 times more likely to be hospitalized than unvaccinated people with a prior COVID infection (natural immunity).

    https://notrickszone.com/2021/08/26/vaccinated-27x-more-likely-to-be-symptomatically-infected-than-unvaccinated-whove-had-covid/

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      OldOzzie

      Interesting – might get Serology Test to see if any Covid antibodies

      COVID-19 serology
      Monday, 17 August 2020
      After extensive evaluation of available assays, COVID-19 serology testing is now available through Douglass Hanly Moir Pathology (DHM).

      Currently, the main role of COVID-19 serology is in the retrospective diagnosis of disease. It may be useful when symptomatic individuals with suspected COVID-19 disease have not been tested by PCR for SARS-CoV-2 at the time of their illness, or when their result was negative or inconclusive. It can also identify those whose primary infection was asymptomatic.

      While most infected individuals will have detectable antibody by the third week after symptom-onset, the longevity of the antibody response remains uncertain and its correlation with protective immunity has not been established.

      A Medicare rebate is applicable to COVID-19 serology.

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    OldOzzie

    HEALTH NEWS AUG. 24, 2021 / 1:26 PM

    Study: Flu severity risk in U.S. higher among Black people, young children of color

    Aug. 24 (UPI) — People of color in the United States are more likely to need hospital and intensive care unit treatment for the flu than White people, an analysis published Tuesday by JAMA Network Open found.

    Among adults age 50 to 64, Black people had a more than two-fold higher risk for hospitalization and admission to the intensive care unit than White people, the data showed.

    Among those age 18 to 49, American Indian and Alaska Natives were nearly twice as likely as White people to require hospital or ICU care for the seasonal virus, the researchers said.

    In addition, Black, Hispanic and American Indian and Alaska Native children age 4 and younger were up to four times more likely to need hospital or ICU treatment.

    The findings echo those of recent reports regarding racial disparities in the risk for severe illness from COVID-19 within communities of color in the United States, the researchers said.

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      David Maddison

      Unlikely anything to do with “racism” but more likely Vitamin D deficiency or in some cases poor nutrition due to bad eating habits.

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        OldOzzie

        David as also in UK re BAME, more exposed to Covid, and definitely lacking Vitamin D

        Same with explosion of cases in Western Sydney – ethnicity of Covid Victims would interesting and as I said previously “I would like a journalist to ask Dr Kerry Chant what were the Vitamin D levels of all the current NSW Covid Hospitalisations”

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          Serp

          Yes, if people were aware of the fundamentals one wouldn’t be able to find D3 on the shelves at the pharmacy.

          The various federal and state health bureaucracies could have leafleted this information throughout their constituencies any time since February 2020; just another of those failures of public policy that we have come to know as the norm.

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    Raving

    Talk by a government (NT) forcing vaccination on people. Not seen this extreme a response before. Elsewhere itbis ‘vaccinate or terminate’ style msndates

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-27/covid-live-blog-nsw-press-conference-vic-lockdown/100411084?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web#live-blog-post-1203167330

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    another ian

    “So…about that FDA approval”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/08/26/soabout-that-fda-approval/

    “It’s not what you think it is.”

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    R.B.

    From News.com.au

    More cases but less deaths: NSW Delta death rate much lower than Victoria’s Covid-19 second wave due to vaccinations
    New figures show a significant difference between Victoria’s 2020 second wave and the current NSW outbreak – and it’s all due to one thing. …Data shows that NSW has suffered 76 deaths from the 14,684 cases recorded by the 70th day of the Delta outbreak, which was reached this Wednesday, compared to Victoria recording 128 lives lost for 10,349 infections over the same period.

    A calculation of deaths-per-case shows Victoria had 1.2 lives lost for every 100 Covid infections by May last year, while NSW’s rate was 0.5 over the same length of time…
    In NSW there have been 34 deaths out of 153 aged-care cases…Infectious diseases expert Peter Collignon told NCA NewsWire that the availability of the Covid-19 vaccine was saving lives.

    “Pfizer and the AstraZeneca appear to be 90 per cent-plus effective at keeping you out of hospital and probably even higher at stopping you from dying,” Professor Collignon said.

    More than 20% of aged care cases have died and vaccination in aged care facilities are the reason for NSW’s lower death rates? Isn’t the reason for the 40% lower death rate just because there have not been as many infections in aged care?

    In August “nursing home deaths account for 70 per cent of Australia’s COVID-19 death toll.” ABC.

    It’s less than 50% of deaths in NSW at the moment but cases in aged-care homes is about 1% of the total, but that is not because of vaccines.

    Vaccines should have meant just serious illness in homes were well below 1% of cases, and transmissions easily stopped with minimal restrictions.

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      yarpos

      Its a different strain in NSW vs VIC last year, the fully vaccinated % is still low, they seem to be clutching at straws to support the injection narrative

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    Lance

    “Why ivermectin hasn’t at least been given emergency use authorisation like other Covid treatments and vaccines is a question Professor John Skerritt, head of the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) has to answer before another Australian dies of Covid… With or without Professor Skerritt, if doctors prescribed ivermectin therapy for every person who tests positive, and wants it, and for their close contacts, the Delta wave would wash away. Offer it to the vaccine hesitant and anyone seeking protection until they were vaccinated, and we could reopen our borders. How apposite that the escape route out of our pandemic prison could be as Aussie as Vegemite.”

    https://www.nationaltimesaustralia.com/lifestyle/ivermectin-its-as-aussie-as-vegemite/

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    Rod

    Breaking. Nitric Oxide Nasal Spray Reduces Covid-19 Viral Load By 95% Within 24 Hours and 99% in 72 hours: Study

    Full story :
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/nitric-oxide-nasal-spray-reduces-covid-19-viral-load-95-within-24-hours-study

    Are you listening Australian government??

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      Furiously Curious

      The TGA recently fined a Melbourne company $90 000> for advertising a nasal spray that they were claiming would cure Covid19.

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      Hanrahan

      Nitric oxide is interesting. Martin Pell PhD wrote a book Explaining “Unexplained Illnesses” discussing the NO/ONOO cycle. I bought but would fail the test on this cycle, my interest was in the protocols. It was they that started me on the path of supplements many years ago.

      The protocols for chronic fatigue tended to be propriety but I started on B12 and went from there. It took years but I beat it.

      If interested search on Martin Pell PhD + NO/ONOO cycle, the diseases he discusses are, cumulatively, common.

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    Graeme#4

    Two truck drivers, recently arrived in WA, have been diagnosed with Covid and are now isolating in a Perth hotel. Will be interesting to see where this leads.
    Meanwhile, the AFL crew are coming in and being lodged in the nice Joondalup resort. One rule for the AFL, another for everybody else…

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    Vicki

    News is that there may be a very extensive truckie strike on Tuesday.

    This may be indicative of gathering unrest in this country in response to the erratic government management of the COVID 19 pandemic. See the brilliant analysis by Jeremy Bray :

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/public-health/2021/08/munchausen-syndrome-by-proxy-as-public-policy/

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    CHRIS

    Truckies strike for anything, Big deal

    00