JoNova

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Even 100% vaccination is not enough: 27 people on a cruise ship get infected, one dies

70, 80, 90 percent vaxed doesn’t look like the ticket to Freedom

A cruise ship with only vaccinated people on board gets 27 cases of covid

Is this what “living with the virus” means?

Carnival Vista, Cruise Ship

Carnival Vista                 | Photo by antonio from Trieste, Italy

by J.D.Rucker:

…according to The Liberty Daily, every staff member and every guest on the ship was vaccinated.

“Somewhere near Cozumel in the Caribbean Sea, there’s a cruise ship that had zero unvaccinated people aboard but that still suffered an outbreak of Covid-19,” the report said. “This goes against the narrative that the reason for ‘breakthrough cases’ is due to too many unvaccinated people mingling with those who have taken the experimental injections.” It continued, “The Carnival Vista, which departed from Galveston, Texas, on July 31, has issued strict face mask protocols and ordered infected people aboard into isolation.

One 77 year old passenger who caught Covid on the ship has since died. Another is still in hospital in Belize and is said to be “in bad shape”. The family of the deceased lady is trying to raise $30,000 to cover the costs, which included an emergency flight back to Texas. There is at least one report that the infections on board rose to 42 —  mostly in the staff.

Masks are now needed too for Carnival Cruise ships as well as negative tests and vaccination. Ponder the logistical challenge of rescuing this industry. Belize is not too happy that ships might be dumping sick passengers in their hospitals. Passengers might not be too happy either. Each time cruise ships dock and disembark in a town they could be bringing Covid or picking it up. The new rules have to be strict, and are not much like a holiday. Now any unvaccinated children on board the ship will not be able to do day trips off at all.

Shipping lines would probably do better by giving passengers free Vitamin D and prescribing anti-virals.

The tale of the contagious cruise ship also implies that States demanding all visitors must be vaccinated might not be achieving much at all. If vaccinated travellers are not quarantined in similar arrangements to the unvaccinated, it’s just a matter of days before they bring in Covid.

Meanwhile Israel is  78% vaccinated and reimposing restrictions as protection wanes

The 78% figure refers to everyone over 12.

According to ANI, now, vaccine certificates or negative COVID-19 tests are also required to enter synagogues, mosques, or churches where there are more than 50 people. The capacity of shops, malls, and industrial parks is also limited to one person per seven square meters. It is worth noting that more than 78 percent of Israel’s approximately nine million people received two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine.

Israel was one of the first nations to load up the vaccines, but the latest figures were suggesting that protection from infection was rapidly waning. People vaccinated in January still had protection from severe disease six months later (mostly) but only 16% protection against being infected. So infections are rapidly rising, and even though hospitalization and death is a lot lower, the hospitals are still struggling. So the new push policy is to get that third shot of Pfizer now:

Israeli PM Naftali Bennett released an audio message urging seniors to get the booster dose on Sunday. In the recorded message, the leader warned that in the next two to three weeks anyone who is over the age of 60 and has not yet received their third vaccine is six times more likely to become seriously ill from the coronavirus, compared to those who are five days past their third shot.

In June, Iceland rolled back social distancing, mask and travel restrictions. Fully 86 per cent of the population had been double vaccinated. But the restrictions have been reimposed as a Covid-19 Delta outbreak has sent case numbers soaring.

By all means, let people choose to get vaccinated, but don’t force it.

9.6 out of 10 based on 87 ratings

395 comments to Even 100% vaccination is not enough: 27 people on a cruise ship get infected, one dies

  • #
    tonyb

    I can not begin to understand the attractions of a cruise even in normal times. To put yourself on a sealed vessel with thousands of strangers seems to me to be crazy then infections can also be brought back when the tourists visit the shore attractions or the ship is restocked. .

    Vaccines undoubtedly help to reduce infections to some extent. However throw lots of people together in close proximity in dining rooms, corridors etc and that degree of immunity will quickly vanish

    Also many vaccinated people believe they are completely immune when they still need to exercise caution.

    The vaccinations will reduce the deaths or serious illness but the elderly and vulnerable will still be elderly and vulnerable.

    The vaccine will wane over time and it is high time due regards was paid to the use of anti virals. To do this it needs to be demonstrated to the satisfaction of any nations health authority- and thus the government-that they are safe and suitable for use as augmenting the vaccine or as a stand alone treatment.

    I am not aware of official studies that are properly peer reviewed but am of course fully aware of the numerous studies, some of which are pretty useful, and others that prove nothing and were poorly conducted..

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      I reckon we could be out of this mess within weeks merely by allowing doctors to use any available, long approved and demonstrably safe medications without threat of goal or losing their licence to practice. Add a formal distribution of notice of the relaxation, for speed of accepting the change.
      After all, the NSW police chief has said there’ll be no retribution to his officers if they mistakenly (or should that be “mistakenly”?) punish an innocent person.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        I should have spelt it “jail”.
        Cheers
        Dave B

        40

      • #
        Bruce

        That situation right there indicates how bad this has all gone so quickly.

        Last time i looked, “Police” did “investigations, arrests and prosecutions”.

        COURTS (remember them), did the “adjudication” and “Corrective Services” did the “”attitude adjusting”.

        When the “investigation / prosecution” agency cuts out the middle-men and itself become the instant attitude adjusters, you have a POLICE STATE. There is NO other valid way of looking at it.

        Sort of a high-tech Rum Corps.

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      • #
        OldOzzie

        Meanwhile said Police Chief definitely has “No Skin in The Game”

        NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller’s wage rises to $665,750 a year

        Another pay rise following last year’s $87,000 boost has taken NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller’s annual wage past $665,750 per year.

        NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller is being given yet another pay rise during the pandemic, with taxpayers now forking out $665,750 per year.

        Despite the Commissioner planning to leave the post in April next year, he will receive a $16,250 (2.5 per cent) pay increase this financial year.

        The boost follows the $87,000 pay rise he received in 2020. Mr Fuller does not set his own wages.

        Because he entered the NSW Police Force before 1988 changes to the Workers Compensation Act, he will also get a boost to the 72.75 per cent of his retirement salary he is entitled to when he leaves the force.

        While Mr Fuller declined to comment, a former high-ranking officer told The Sunday Telegraph “it’s appalling”.

        “Rank-and-file police are exposing themselves time and time again — like health workers — to the virus, yet they are restricted to notional pay rises,” the source said.

        “Isn’t it time that those public servants earning more than $500,000 actually said ‘no pay rises’?”

        In 2020 the NSW government announced a 12-month pause on wage increases for public sector employees.

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    • #
      RickWill

      I am not aware of official studies that are properly peer reviewed but am of course fully aware of the numerous studies, some of which are pretty useful, and others that prove nothing and were poorly conducted.

      This is the most recent paper I have seen on Ivermectin:
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/
      It is a review of current studies.

      The findings indicate with moderate certainty that ivermectin treatment in COVID-19 provides a significant survival benefit.

      The quality of the data as a prophylaxis is rated low but has similar survival benefit as the vaccines based on that low quality data.

      Merck were the original patent holders. They are not recommending its use.

      It takes a good deal of money to run trials. The trials on the vaccine provide much higher quality data on the efficacy of the vaccines and the large scale trial across the globe is showing similar efficacy in survival as the approval trials. There is a lot of money available to promote the success of the vaccines.

      Ivermectin may actually reduce rate of infection more significantly than any vaccine. That may be the reason for its wider use as health authorities become frustrated with the waning effectiveness of vaccines.

      At the present time, Ivermectin is a developing world treatment. Vaccines are being promoted in developed countries.

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      • #
        Analitik

        Merck were the original patent holders. They are not recommending its use

        Because ivermectin is no longer on patent so they only get a small profit selling it.
        Merkx are pushing to molnupiravir approved as a repurposed drug for CoVid since it is still under patent so they can charge a lot more for it.

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        • #

          “It takes a good deal of money to run trials. “

          Which is exactly what we have the publicly funded universities for.

          Where are they?

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          • #
            Ian

            “It takes a good deal of money to run trials. “

            Which is exactly what we have the publicly funded universities for.

            Where are they?

            Many of them are not operating. Those that are do not haver the funds to run trials as the public funding has been cut and cut and cut since 2012 will be cut again by 9.3% from FY 2022 to FY 2024.

            Last year, Scott Morrison’s government denied public universities financial support when the COVID-19 pandemic struck their international student revenues, and by introducing a “Jobs-Ready Graduate” plan that further reduces government funding per domestic student by 14 percent, while doubling tuition fees in humanities.

            If the public universities in Australia aren’t running trials, that’s why

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          • #
            peter

            Jo,
            Having worked in an Australian university and been engaged in research, I can assure people that zero money is available from most universities for research (Sydney and Melbourne Unis do have more funds). Unis rely on a gravy train of research funds from outside bodies to fund ANY research. The Uni takes an administration cut from every research grant received, usually 10 -20%, straight off the top of each grant (for administration costs, of course), on a $300,000 grant that’s $30k to $60k – a nice little earner for the Uni. The Uni administration, run by professional managers with a lust for cash-flow, greedily eye every funding grant received. Researchers apply directly to the ARC or other funding bodies for a grant and have to compete against other applicants for limited funds. Missing out on funding for a project is common. It has been this way for decades. What Ian said about Morrison was mostly rubbish. US Universities often have wealthy patrons who donate huge sums to their favorite college (for research) but that’s rare in Australia. AND the research project HAS to be politically correct. For example, if an applicant applied for, say, money to research to show that climate change theory was wrong and that CO2 had little effect on climate, they would almost certainly receive ZERO funding for such research. That would come as no surprise to readers of this site.

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        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Perhaps the fact that Merck and Co has received US$268.8 million to upgrade its production line to manufacture J&J’s vaccine might also have something to do with it as well:

          “The HHS’ Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA) will chip in up to $268.8 million to upgrade and leverage two of Merck’s U.S. plants to produce J&J’s adenovirus-based vaccine.”

          https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/merck-snares-268m-barda-funding-to-boost-capacity-for-j-j-covid-19-vaccine

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        Doctors using a well designed multi-drug protocol are reporting almost 100% cure if started early. Any placebo controlled trial would be unethical. Who chooses the group that might die? Doctors are not Gods.

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      • #
        Vicki Sanderson

        I don’t believe that they will ever relax the opposition to Ivermectin. The frantic development of anti-virals by the pharmaceutical companies & the public announcement by Fauci that he expects imminent approval by the FDA and CDC is indicative that newly patented drugs will instead be promoted.

        That’s the way the Big Business world works & it sucks.

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      • #
        tonyb

        Rick

        I have linked to todays UK Daily sceptic in its entirety rather than just a single article. The first four pieces are especially worth reading, looking at the figures used in the latest Oxford University analysis of covid. the authorisation of the first anti viral (Donald Trumps one) worth looking at the comments, plus two pieces about Australia and New Zealand where the lockdowns are rightly referred to as ‘house arrests’

        https://dailysceptic.org/todays-update/

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      • #
        MrV

        You seem interested enough. Can you check my numbers?

        These are the PBS codes for Ivermectin.
        https://www.pbs.gov.au/medicine/item/2868Y-8359Y

        Annual prescription supply numbers are contained in a 63MB file here:
        https://www.pbs.gov.au/info/statistics/dos-and-dop/dos-and-dop

        Filter by the codes above. The data for 2021 is only partial (up to May 2021).
        By my calculations I make it that in the year 2019 there were 2057 Ivermectin prescriptions .
        Extrapolating 2021 we are on track for nearly 2700 prescriptions, a +30% increase over 2019.

        Has there been an outbreak of Crusted (Norwegian) scabies or Human sarcoptic scabies, I am currently aware of?
        We need a forensic prescription audit to see that the medical community is not self-prescribing here.
        Maybe we should wait for the next 3 months of data?

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        • #
          Simon Thompson

          As a holder of MB BS, I decided to score some Bomectin: 250 doses for $85 (yes I am Cheap), now facing deregistration (coz I am ‘dangerous’) I will continue my n=1 of 2 ml weekly!

          42

      • #
        tonyb

        Rick

        Thanks for the link but the number of official studies i.e that would persuade Health trusts and GP’s to prescribe this and other virals remains tiny oer non existent.

        Bearing in mind we still don’t have a handle on masks-its not surprising that anti virals have not been passed as safe -whether or not individuals here believe them to be is immaterial-no govt will endorse them in case there are repercussions.

        As for masks-the blue surgical masks are only 10% effective

        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9914969/Popular-blue-surgical-face-masks-NOT-stop-people-infected-COVID-19.html

        Bearing in mind they are stuffed in peoples pockets and used time and again that 10% is also unlikely.

        This is a different discussion to surgical masks being worn correctly as if by surgeons-which I have never seen happen

        10

    • #
      clarence.t

      Last cruise I was on was when our family came from the UK in 1959

      Mum says I got chicken pox, and spread it to every other child on board. Such fun !

      Don’t remember anything about it .. only heresay from Mum and Dad.. who, like the rest of the passengers.. were not amused. ! 😉

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      • #
        Analitik

        We should be letting kids get CoViD so they get proper immunity from the recovery since the mortality rate is almost non-existent. Then they can safely visit the grandparents once they are over the infection.

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        • #

          But who looks after the kids while they are sick? Their parents need some kind of protection.

          And what we do for kids with long-covid?

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927578/
          Evidence from the first study of long covid in children suggests that more than half of children aged between 6 and 16 years old who contract the virus have at least one symptom lasting more than 120 days, with 42.6 per cent impaired by these symptoms during daily activities.

          UK advocacy group Long Covid Kids says that it currently has details of 1200 children with long covid from 890 families in England. “And that number has been rising quickly,” says founder Sammie Mcfarland. “Not one has returned to their previous health, and most are unable to do their normal activities.”

          1200 kids in the UK is a tiny fraction, but to those 1200 kids and their families, it means a lot.

          We should be protecting kids until the mutations settle down, the vaccines improve, or there are treatments that are easily available. Long term risks of both covid infection and vaccination are so much more important in children. What if the disease or the vaccine increases the development of auto-immune disease ten years from now?

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          • #
            Chris

            Dr Robert Malone who was vaccinated , got long covid. It this point he tried Ivermectin and was back to his old self in days.

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            • #
              Analitik

              Not quite. He got CoViD first, recovered but suffered from long CoViD, then got vaccinated (with moderna) and suffered side effects without the long CoViD improving. Finally, be took invermectin which cured the long CoViD.

              It was this journey that made him look deeper at the vaccine effects resulting in his concerns over their use – initially, he supported the vaccines as safe and effective.

              340

          • #
            Analitik

            Kids with long CoViD should be treated with ivermectin as Chris has discussed.

            Also kids should have better nutrition than many do – it’s highly likely that there is a direct correspondence with long CoViD and poor nutrition just as there is with adult obesity and CoViD mortality rates.

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            • #
              OldOzzie

              Covid cases spike in western Sydney Aboriginal community\

              Almost half of the Covid-19 cases detected in NSW’s Aboriginal population have been in southwest and western Sydney, as health experts cite grave concerns for the high-risk community.

              One hundred and nine of the 226 cases diagnosed so far in the state’s Indigenous community have been detected in the Liverpool (44), Penrith (24) and Parramatta (41) local health districts.

              While fears are rife for Indigenous communities in regional NSW, where case numbers have reached almost 90 during the ­latest outbreak, health experts are becoming increasingly concerned for Sydney’s Indigenous population

              “Often those communities have more crowded housing, often have underlying health problems, poorer access to healthcare which puts them at high risk of Covid and higher risk of much worse consequences.

              00

          • #
            Analitik

            And what mutation are you hoping for, Jo? One that is it’s completely benign?

            That won’t happen with CoViD since the spike protein is the mechanism for infection and inherently toxic so there are very real limits to how benign a mutation can be yet still be infective enough to become dominant. Looking at the data from the UK, Delta is likely to be as good as it gets.

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          • #
            MrV

            Whose fault is it Australians are so positively drowning in debt that they can’t look after their own kids? I.e they have to go out just to put something on the table at the end of the day.

            10

          • #
            OldOzzie

            Israeli scientist says COVID-19 could be treated for under $1/day

            Double-blind study shows ivermectin reduces disease’s duration and infectiousness • FDA and WHO caution against its use

            Prof. Eli Schwartz, founder of the Center for Travel Medicine and Tropical Disease at Sheba, conducted a randomized, controlled, double-blinded trial from May 15, 2020, through the end of January 2021 to evaluate the effectiveness of ivermectin in reducing viral shedding among nonhospitalized patients with mild to moderate COVID-19.

            In Schwartz’s study, some 89 eligible volunteers over the age of 18 who were diagnosed with coronavirus and staying in state-run COVID-19 hotels were divided into two groups: 50% received ivermectin, and 50% received a placebo, according to their weight. They were given the pills for three days in a row, an hour before a meal.

            The volunteers were tested using a standard nasopharyngeal swab PCR test with the goal of evaluating whether there was a reduction in viral load by the sixth day – the third day after termination of the treatment. They were swabbed every two days.

            Nearly 72% of volunteers treated with ivermectin tested negative for the virus by day six. In contrast, only 50% of those who received the placebo tested negative.

            IN ADDITION, the study looked at culture viability, meaning how infectious the patients were, and found that only 13% of ivermectin patients were infectious after six days, compared with 50% of the placebo group – almost four times as many.

            “Our study shows first and foremost that ivermectin has antiviral activity,” Schwartz said. “It also shows that there is almost a 100% chance that a person will be noninfectious in four to six days, which could lead to shortening isolation time for these people. This could have a huge economic and social impact.”

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    • #
      Fran

      It is still not clear if the lower morbidity with Delta spread is due to vaccination or to lower pathogenicity of the strain.

      40

  • #
    tonyb

    That story is several weeks old. I found this

    https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2021/08/13/belize-carnival-vista-27-test-postive/5321628874166/

    It seems there were 4400 people on board-most vaccinated. So the number who got covid symptoms is pretty small. The lady who died appeared to have covid before joining the ship if you look at the dates, but that is not certain. The fact that so manty people in such close proximity produced so few cases seems to be a vindication of the vaccine but it seems unwise to get on board in the first place.

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    • #
      Chris

      The Diamond Princess had 3700 people on board, 1100 crew and 2600 passengers. It was a sea for two weeks and quarantined for two weeks.
      When tested there were; 712 who tested positive, 340 were asymptomatic, 46 required hospital treatment and of these 9 died on the ship and another 4 after they returned home. This was before vaccinations.

      The vaccine propaganda pushes you to assume that if you get covid without a vaccine you will die.

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      • #

        Tonyb

        The point of telling the story was not about mortality rates — it’s about how the current vaccines don’t provide protection for unvaccinateed people — and policies to allow vaccinated people to travel without quarantine are doomed.

        It’s also about how un-free the vaccination solution is. Look at the rules and complexity. Cruise ships travelling from states where the virus has been eliminated don’t need to wear masks, get vaccinated, get tested before docking and every time they disembark and reembark. And given that there is a 14 day incubation — even retesting won’t stop the virus spreading as no test can show up a virus initially.

        If South Australia, for example, says vaccinated people can isolate at home, but doesn’t follow that up or enforce it, then it’s just a matter of weeks before Covid cases will leak into the state.

        Regarding dates — the cruise started on July 31. Docked in Belize on August 4. The news of the lady’s death was Aug 18.

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    • #
      David A

      Vaccines may increase infections, transmission. And over time they quickly lose the ability to prevent symptoms, then serious symptoms, then possibly far worse.
      https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243262

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      • #
        David A

        On October 28 2020 the US had 1031 Covid deaths.
        On that day they had 82,000 cases.
        Yesterday the US had 151,000 cases.
        and 1030 deaths.
        We don’t know the real number of cases because the asymptomatic vaccinated are not tested.
        If, and a big if, the reduced percentage of deaths per infection is due to ????
        Reduced testing?
        The vaccines ?
        Greater natural immunity ?
        Seasonal reduction in cases?
        More people taking antivirals?
        Better earlier mainstream treatments?
        Delta is less virulent?
        All of the above?

        Yet we don’t know …
        how many of yesterday’s dead or sick were vaccinated.
        how many had recovered from Covid previously.

        About the only certainty is the vaccines are failing and adverse events are suppressed.

        My

        All of the above

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        • #
          RickWill

          If, and a big if, the reduced percentage of deaths per infection is due to ????

          The vaccines ?

          The correct answer.

          https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210629/almost-all-us-covid-19-deaths-now-in-the-unvaccinated

          That’s the conclusion of a new report The Associated Press released looking at COVID-19 deaths during May 2021.

          Of more than 18,000 people who died from COVID-19, for example, only about 150 were fully vaccinated. That’s less than 1%.

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          • #
            David A

            You are asserting the other factors are non existent?

            Rick, that is an AP report not even linked to. (Friggin AP report, hardly science, definitely not trustworthy)
            The CDC admitted that 15 percent of hospitalized were vaccinated, after another less then one percent claim based on only certain states over a very limited time, like the least vaccinated states. Will this turn out to be equally defective?

            Find me one early heavily vaccinated state, and get the first two weeks from August 2021 numbers and show me the hospitalizations and deaths break down.

            Heck show me June, then July then the August. Dollars to donuts the vaccine is rapidly failing, and all are on the Israeli path.

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          • #

            If, and a big if, the reduced percentage of deaths per infection is due to ????

            The vaccines ?

            The more correct answer.
            A huge amount of chance has been given to the surviving virus to contain new vaccine escape variants.
            “Risk of vaccine-resistant variants highest when most jabbed: study”
            https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210730-risk-of-vaccine-resistant-variants-highest-when-most-jabbed-study
            Only elimination maintained by ongoing quarantine stops new variants being created. Thus “learn to live with” + reality = Attempt to live with continuous new variant creation.
            Show me the already created Tasmanian variant.

            60

          • #

            Unfortunate that that link contains bad logic at the end.
            “Thus, a truly global vaccination effort may be necessary to reduce the chances of a global spread of a resistant strain.”
            No that just makes it worse.

            50

            • #
              Analitik

              Exactly. All this talk about the unvaccinated providing a pool for mutations ignores the natural selection of such mutations that makes all widespread virus outbreaks self attenuate.

              Those making such statements either have a vested interest in the vaccines beyond public health or else they have NFI what they’re talking about.

              80

  • #
    Klem

    Um, obviously this vaccine doesn’t actually work, so can someone remind me again why should I get this vaccine?

    452

    • #

      Works to prevent serious illness (for now, at least, against the current variants). For high risk people in high risk situations it has saved lives.
      That said, it’s a very different cost benefit risk ratio for young people. The long term risks are not known.

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      • #
        Vlad the Impaler

        Two weeks after getting one of the “vaccines”, I started getting T.I.A.’s (ofetn called ‘mini-strokes’). My Primary Care Physician directly linked the vaccine to the attacks.

        I’m now taking 325-mg of aspirin every day, and my P.C. does not know when I’ll be safe. She was thinking possibly a year, but I have to come up with something over USD10,000 for a cranial MRI to determine the extent of the damage, and the future risk.

        And, Fitzroy (#4), as a lad, I received a smallpox vaccine, and the Salk and Sabin vaccines, and have never had to worry about contracting either smallpox, or polio, because the true vaccines have prevented it.

        The “BUG” ‘vaccine’ is a complete lie. Read the story (for once),

        Regards,

        V. t. I.

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        • #
          Klem

          I think it goes without saying that you won’t be lining up to get the 3rd or 4th shot any time soon.

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        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          G’day Vlad,
          Sorry to hear of your situation and wish you well.
          I don’t think you’ll be surprised that I say that if it happened to me I’d increase my intake of vitamin D significantly, immediately and daily, to bolster my immune system. I’m already on quercetin and zinc.
          Best wishes.
          Dave B

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        • #
          Chris

          That’s no good. Sorry to hear this, I hope you mend soon and it all works out OK.

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          • #
            Vlad the Impaler

            Thanks to all; no mini-strokes now for going into seven weeks.

            Yes, my wife and I started the Vitamin D, zinc, and anytime a sniffle started, we got as much Great Value (WalMart branded) Tonic Water, which has quinine, as we could find. Before we went to bed that night, with the regimen, the sniffles were gone. I had my very first winter EVER where I did NOT have a cold (we started this a little over a year ago). Northern Hemisphere summer is now on the wane, as y’all know.

            We did the shot on advice from our daughter, a Master’s Degree Nurse/Practitioner, who studied the various non-vaccines, and thought the single-dose was closer to a regular vaccine, but of course, now we know it is not. We continue the prophylaxis of the various over-the-counter stuff. I’d like to know a lot more about this quercetin, as I know nothing about it, or even where I might get it. I do not have a lot of confidence that it is even available on this side of the Big Pond. I strongly suspect the FDA has flagged it as ‘contraband’, or some such thing, given the state of things in the Democratic People’s Republic of Americastan.

            Just to clarify: my daughter is NOT our Primary Care Physician. We have a regular Medical Doctor (and trust me, she is the most amazing physician I think I have ever known!). I do not know her feelings on the non-vaccines, but I did tell her about getting the single-dose. She simply acknowledged it (as they are trained to do).

            It was right after the first mini-stroke hit that I advised the appointment-scheduler that it was an emergent condition; that’s what got me an appointment within 48 hours of that first event. The personnel at the clinic agreed that it was emergent, so they cleared the schedule to get me in (it is normally about a two-week wait to get a ‘routine’ appointment).

            It was after the fourth event that she advised going onto the 325-mg aspirin. I had been taking the 81-mg ‘baby’ aspirin, but it was not enough, so we agreed to up the dose.

            Please hit back with additional info; if you know, I’d appreciate knowing the ‘controlled substance’ status of this quercetin, and what it is exactly (e.g., is it a ‘steroid’, an ‘analgesic’, a … … … [fill in the blank]).

            Again, many thanks to all for the best wishes, and my Regards to everyone,

            Vlad (the Impaler)

            And click ‘thumbs up’ on my post #1 on the new ‘Weekend Unthreaded’

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              Annie

              Hi Vlad. I hope you’ll be fine now as you have a good pc.
              I take quercetin each day in a form sold as Quercetain (BioCeuticals, made in Australia); a mixture of quercetin and bromelain. I ordered it through our local chemist. Quercetin is derived from plants and it is found in red onions and red apples; bromelain from pineapples.
              I also take VitC (1,000mg twice pd), VitD3 (2,000iu/pd)(sometimes repeated later if the day is dull and cold), VitK2 90mcg/pd, Zinc (25mg/pd).
              A similar though not identical routine to Dr Zelenko’s.

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                Vlad, I’m so sorry to hear of your ongoing struggles and the risk. I imagine that would be quite stressful!
                Please keep us updated.

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                Analitik

                Annie, while your advice is almost certainly good for avoiding serious CoViD, recovery from the damage from the effects of the vaccination probably requires more than that

                But your regime probably wouldn’t hurt either.

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                Annie

                Thanks Analitik. I have been wondering what the optimum would be if ever it was needed as ‘vaccine’ recovery. Any ideas?

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                Analitik

                Such an answer could only be found in long term trials – the ones that were never done with the CoViD vaccines before rushing them out on emergency application approval.

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              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Vlad, thanks for that.

                I’m a strong supporter on the Zelenko protocol and the use of HCQ.

                However, in the paper you reference there is an Editor’s Note which says:

                The use of HCQ is highly controversial. The best scientific evidence from randomized controlled trials suggests that HCQ has limited/no proven benefit for post exposure prophylaxis, for the early symptomatic phase and in hospitalized patients. Considering, the unique pharmacokinetics of HCQ it is unlikely that HCQ would be of benefit in patients with COVID-19 infection (it takes 5–10 days to achieve adequate plasma and lung concentrations). Finally, it should be recognized that those studies which are widely promoted to support the use of HCQ are severely methodologically flawed.

                Talk about creating confusion.

                What is that all about?

                Any thoughts?

                Anybody?

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                AC Osborn

                Sceptical Sam August 21, 2021 at 4:42 pm
                “The best scientific evidence from randomized controlled trials suggests that HCQ has limited/no proven benefit for post exposure prophylaxis”

                The studies they mention are the Brazillian Study the Oxford Recovery Study and the WHO study.
                All three gave their seriously ill patients 6 times the recomended MAXIMUM dose and then declared that it didn’t work.
                They did not use the reecommneded protocols for dose, addinf Zinc and an Anti-biotic.
                The studies were literally designed to fail.
                They deliberatley created the confusion.

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                Sceptical Sam

                Yep. Yes. Thanks for responding, A C Osborn.

                Without wishing to sound condescending, that’s all correct.

                What I’m interested in is why the “Editor” would be so woke as to insert the note.

                He’s clearly wrong. But why would he wish to demonstrate his ignorance of the research?

                I can’t even find the name of the dill. Can you?

                What’s his motivation?

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                Lucky

                Add to comments by AC Osborn-

                Yes, several trials were designed to fail, incl. those mentioned.

                Another reason they failed is, as well known HCQ is in-effective on late stage. Those trials selected patients who were in that stage.

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                Lucky

                Note when using Quercetin-

                It has a relatively short effective life, of less than 24 hours, so you should take at least two a day spread out over the day.
                Zinc supplements can be taken once a day.
                Do not take an antibiotic as a precaution, take at the first sign of symptoms.

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              David A

              Sorry to hear off your vaccine related suffering.

              I have a question; do you know if your doctor reported the conditions to an adverse event reactions agency?

              All the Best…

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                Vlad the Impaler

                Hi David,

                I do not know if Dr. Jensen made a formal report. Such a protocol is ‘above my pay grade’.

                Wish I could assist you,

                Vlad

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              David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

              G’day again Vlad,
              I think it was one of your countrymen who first made me aware of it, with a comment to Jo last year. So there’s a bit of irony in your question as I had to do a search around to get some. But now Dr Zelenko is including it in his protocol, in preference to HCQ (!), because, yes, it is available without prescription in USA, as well as here, which is why Dr Z likes it.
              I was able to get some at my first attempt at my local health food store, and my pharmacy would have supplied it, but didn’t keep it in stock. We have since been able to order it on line.
              Quercetin is a zinc ionophore, a property it shares with HCQ and IVM.
              Cheers
              Dave B

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              Vicki Sanderson

              I’ve always understood Quercetin to be the commonly named “bioflavonoids”.

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                David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

                G’day Vixki,
                I think you’re right. But when I looked at natural sources I didn’t see any any which suited my tastes and provided enough on a daily basis. I stopped looking when I found I could buy the tablets locally.
                Cheers
                Dave B

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              Furiously Curious

              I ordered Quercetin From Amazon. It arrived in Aus in 2-3weeks. 250 500mg tabs for about $50

              20

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              Furiously Curious

              I ordered Quercetin From Amazon. It arrived in Aus in 2-3weeks. 250 500mg tabs for about $50. 1 tab a day with food. Have some breaks of taking it.

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              John PAK

              Vlad.
              Adding to Annie’s sensible suggestions:-
              Alan Downes, a retired CSIRO scientist used to rave to me about glutathione’s role in health.
              Briefly, glutathione is a naturally occurring anti-oxidant in our cells which reduces as we age so supplementation seems sensible. Low glutathione correlates with poor health.
              Cysteine is a precursor molecule for glutathione production. You can take N-Acetyl-Cycteine (NAC) to assist your own glutathione pathway. For the chemical-minded PubChem has basic info.
              As with most supplements it is wise to commence on a half dose to monitor for adverse effects or contra-indication with drugs etc. Your average doctor does not study this aspect of health in depth but it would not harm to run it by her.

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                Vlad the Impaler

                Thank you, John.

                I’ve been doing my homework on these various treatments. Surely something will improve the situation, with all the collective wisdom here at Jo’s.

                Follow-up appointment with Dr. Jensen on 31 August.

                Regards (and gratitude) to all,

                Vlad

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          Hanrahan

          VIP, check out nattokinase and ask your doctor if it would be better than aspirin. I understand it is an active anticoagulant, not just a blood thinner.

          I would take it before a long flight and I give Mrs H one a day hoping that it will allow better irrigation of her brain plaque. This replaces the aspirin I was using so no way am I suggesting taking both. If a healthy person takes too much a shaving nick or small cut can bleed for hours, so I am NOT making recommendations.

          What Is Nattokinase?

          Nattokinase is a potent fibrinolytic (anti-clotting) enzyme complex extracted and highly purified from a traditional Japanese food called Natto.

          https://lifeextensionvitamins.com/natoprheatan.html

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            Vlad the Impaler

            Hi Hanrahan:

            I’ll look into it. Before going to the 325-mg aspirin, my P.C. tried to recommend Plavix as an alternative. I did a lot of investigation, and it looked really good, but in the end, it looked like the over-the-counter solution would work just about as well as the prescription. I’m retired, so I need to watch the pfennigs as closely as possible.

            And I have to get an MRI at the earliest possible time. Right now the cookie jar is telling me that I have a long way to go to get to the cost of the MRI, so I’m always on the lookout for the lowest possible cost solutions.

            Thanks for the heads-up,

            Vlad

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              Hanrahan

              Wow much does a steel knee cost there? Here the MRI is just a part, to get a 3D image to build a 3D printed bone replica from which they make jigs so cuts and screw holes are precise. Works a treat.

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              • #
                Bruce

                I remember getting a tour of the R&D “shed” where that technology was developed.

                That was nearly twenty years ago.

                The Queensland University of Technology had partnered with a research unit at Royal Brisbane Hospital. It was my first encounter with 3D printing!

                Not just for joint replacement, but skull reconstructions as well. CAD boffins, titanium-specialist foundry technicians, and medicos all working on a common goal.

                Probably been “Yes, Ministered” out of existence by now.

                What “applied science” is all about.

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          Jim Connelly

          Vlad, my understanding is the polo and smallpox virus can only exist in humans, that’s why the virus can be eradicated.

          Corona virus’s have a reservoir (animals) and that’s why we have never been able to eradicate them, they move/hide in animals and mutate.

          Jim

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        Chris

        Jo, how do we know the vaccine has saved lives.? Isn’t that assuming that doctors in the ICU have learnt nothing.?

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          David A

          … and assuming that natural immunity played no role
          and assuming Delta vs Alpha played no role.
          and assuming earlier treatment played no role.

          Yet in several areas where the vaccine have been out for a long time, despite all of the above, the vaccinated have lost all advantage.

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            Chris — apart from many studies on it, you just have to look at case numbers and current deaths in countries with high vaccination rates. And also from reports (my main source) of what ICU doctors say.

            Even FLCCC pro-ivermectin doctors agree that while Covid vaxes are riskier than normal vaxes, they are reducing severe infections and deaths.

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        Vicki Sanderson

        It’s interesting that prospective anti-virals are not being promoted as prophylactic, but only as an early (important) treatment – similar to the Ivermectin protocol.

        From all that I have read, this will be as (if not more) effective as the vaccines. Hopefully, without the same risk profile!

        Personally, I can’t see why, in view of this information, one would choose to risk vaccination with emergency vaccines that were not only insufficiently trialled, but shown to have adverse effects that would normally have seen the program curtailed!

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        “Works to prevent serious illness”

        Jo you need to tell that to the jabbed in ICU and the families of the jabbed who have died

        “For high risk people in high risk situations”

        that brings up the question of “why are there so many front line care workers against getting the Jab”

        LOL

        it seems to me that the numbers are getting worse since the jab was introduced

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          Vicki Sanderson

          Yep – when you have seen a 50 year old fit mother die of blood clotting after AZ, you ask yourself what it must be like for her family.

          It is a fair chance to say that she would be alive today, had she not been persuaded (without sufficient information) to be vaccinated.

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          Marksman, see my reply 3.1.2.1.1.

          I’ve seen all those reports. I don’t deny them. But I;ve also seen all the reports from ICU doctors on deaths from Covid and they vastly exceed deaths from vaxes (even assuming the higher end estimates of vax deaths — not just the officially certified “Approved” blood clotting.)

          If there were no other treatments possible and no way to prevent Covid spreading — the risk of dying from Covid in older age groups is far far higher than from the Vax.

          But of course, there are other treatments, and it is possible — in a few states to prevent the spread of Covid (though that will likely change if 80% are vaccinated and have been told that will save their friends and family).

          What I want to see are studies of case matched total mortality in different age groups — how many people died, say, age 20 – 30 the month after vaccination and how many positive cases of covid in that age group died in the following month. All cause mortality.

          If teh government is collecting that data they are not passing it on as far as I can tell.

          And there is no data on the ten year effects of catching Chinese bioweapons or taking vaccines and risks of ongoing stroke, heart disease, dementia, or autoimmunity. For obvious reasons we don’t know those risks.

          But we do know the risk of using ivermectin/HCQ or vitamin D for ten years.

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            David A

            “ If the government is collecting that data they are not passing it on as far as I can tell.”

            There is so much data we should have, yet don’t. It is hard to believe the Government does not have it. Yet, when the CDC decides to neither test or track vaccinated, we lose the ability to know how much spreading is done by the vaccinated.

            I think however they likely have lots of information they are not sharing, as it may show more vaccine flaws. We KNOW if it showed the opposite, we would hear about it.

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            “But we do know the risk of using ivermectin/HCQ or vitamin D for ten years.”

            surly you are joking Jo
            you do realise you are predicting that the kung flu will be around for longer than 10yrs by saying this

            Jo l am wondering if you actually look at what others who you obviously disagree with post up?
            quite a bit of good information that has been posted says that if Australia adopted the use of the effective triple therapy covid cure, Australia could be kung flu free within 6-8 weeks, nothing about bumbling around for 10 years creating the new world order and no need for the clot shot

            isnt this what we should be debating ” how to get the poliscum to listen to the science”

            it is the only illness l have ever heard of that you need to be tested to know you are sick

            maybe that would be a good thing to debate, “how to get the governments to listen to the science”

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            OldOzzie

            Jo,

            Re – But I’ve also seen all the reports from ICU doctors on deaths from Covid

            Did any of those reports answer a question I previously posited on the Blog

            I would like to hear answers to the following

            Has anyone ever asked Dr Kerry Chant NSW Chief Health Officer during the Press Conferences, what were the Vitamin D levels of Patients in ICU, and what preventative measures are taken/given for people who test Covid Positive

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      Analitik

      , so can someone remind me again why should I get this vaccine?

      RickWill do it

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    Peter Fitzroy

    Historically, no vaccine for any disease has ever been 100% effective, why are we surprised that events like this are occurring?

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      Ian

      I think you will find smallpox was eradicated by vaccination

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        Peter Fitzroy

        Yes Ian, but that does not invalidate my comment. Smallpox was eradicated when enough of the worlds population were vaccinated to limit its transmission. The CDC states that smallpox vaccine was 95% effective, which is what I am saying.

        https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/vaccine-basics/index.html

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          Lance

          Smallpox vaccinations provided immunity for 5 to 10 years.

          The current crop of mRNA gene therapy injections “may” provide 3 to 6 months of reduced mortality, but provide no long term immunity, little immunity to variants, do not prevent transmission or viral shedding.

          Pfizer/Moderna are some 90% effective against the Alpha covid, but only 42% effective against the Delta variant, even initially, much less 6 months later.

          Not a lot of info on the NovaVax jab, but touted to use the whole virus, shell and spike, and provides 90% protection. Way fewer side effects.

          All that said, natural immunity is, was, and will be, the most effective and longest lasting defense possible, because it stimulates the B and T cells.

          Avoiding the cytokine storm initially seems key to surviving covid infection. If HCQ + Zn, or IVM do that, then people ought to be allowed to use them. Vit D supplements cut covid risk by half, but take 30 days or more to raise serum D levels so it isn’t an overnight treatment.

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            Analitik

            Also, the smallpox vaccine is administered through the skin to generate a mucosal response. This means the body will fight a smallpox infection right at its entry point making for a sterilizing immunity.

            Contrast this with the injected CoViD vaccines which only generate a circulatory response so the infection takes hold before the anitbodies respond. This ensure that they are leaky – the efficacy rates are misleading as in actuality, 100% of the vaccinated get infected but a high (but lowering over time) percentage fight off the infection to the extent that viral loads are negligible.

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              OldOzzie

              Also, the smallpox vaccine is administered through the skin to generate a mucosal response

              Funny just posted photo of my 24 year old wife with 1st newborn son on Family Group Facebook, and noticed smallpox scab on her upper arm from Smallpox Jabs we both received before overseas posting in 1970.

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            Hanrahan

            Avoiding the cytokine storm initially seems key to surviving covid infection.

            High dose steroids have been used for decades to prevent this cytokine storm. But true to form only low dose trials have been done with only modest results.

            The respiratory disease caused by covid is very like a particular pneumonia [name escapes me] that critical care doctors always use high dose steroids to treat.

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              OriginalSteve

              I notice on the “news” was what appeared to be a N W O / medical taliban / mafioso announcement that they are going to basically hold the lockdown “gun” against the populations collective head, until 80% of the population submits……

              Arbet Macht Frie…..

              N*zism never died, it just went underground and is resurfacing.

              The new concentration camps ( isolation / re education camps) are also being built to house resisters.

              The play book us always the same…demonize resisters, round them up and….

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                OriginalSteve

                A very good read on the blatant Covid Psy Op :

                https://www.wnd.com/2021/08/propaganda-expert-warns-global-covid-psyop

                “In Germany, equally insidious propaganda strategies have been documented within the so-called “Panic Paper,” a leaked document from the German Department of Interior that shows the population was deliberately driven to panic by politicians and mainstream media.

                “Among other things, the Panic Paper calls for children to be made to feel responsible “for the painful tortured death of their parents and grandparents if they do not follow the corona rules,” that is, if they do not constantly wash their hands, put on masks and avoid contact with their grandparents.

                “Scientific data shows children are not efficient spreaders of the virus but that couldn’t be allowed to disrupt the fear-based narrative. They were masked and socially distanced, their schools shut down, their social lives destroyed, leading to a record number of teen suicides.

                “Laura Dodsworth, in her book A State of Fear: How the UK Government Weaponized Fear During the Covid-19 Pandemic, interviewed behavioral psychologists that work for the UK government. What she found was astonishing: the mask was primarily about keeping people’s fear levels up.

                ““Keeping the virus in the forefront of people’s minds,” Robinson said. “Behavior scientists admitted that’s what the mask is mainly about. It’s not about protecting people from a virus but managing their perception of the virus.”

                “Governments set up snitchlines in the U.S., the U.K., Germany, Australia, and throughout the formerly free world, further dividing their populations and turning friends and family against each other.

                “This concept of divide and control is becoming more apparent. We’re starting to see it over the last couple of weeks in terms of mandated vaccination,” Robison said.
                …………….
                “We know from history this kind of talk can lead to very, very dark places,” said Robinson. “Many of the things we are seeing, the need to carry special passports for instance, have parallels in 1930s Germany.

                “Very credible, eminent scientists, are now being smeared in the media because of their anti-lockdown views or for questioning the Covid vaccines. The casual smearing is certainly a big part of what’s going on. This should be another warning sign to those who think everything is OK and there are no problems out there.

                “People should ask themselves, why are very eminent scientists from the beginning [like Dr. Peter McCullough and Dr. Robert Malone] being smeared and being censored and shut down and shut out from debates? That tells you something. That tells you this isn’t a rational response that’s going on. This is a propagandized response. And it’s being carried through by shutting people up, by humiliating them, smearing them and so on.”

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                Sceptical Sam

                And it’s being carried through by shutting people up, by humiliating them, smearing them and so on.”

                But here you are OS, in full flight, taking advantage of your freedom to speak.

                How is it that we know about HCQ, Zn, D3, VitC, AZM if it’s all being “shut up”?

                How is it that journals publish the studies on the efficacy of HCQ, Quecertin, IVM, if they’re all being “shut up”?

                https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1934578X20976293

                Collingwood supporters have a view not dissimilar to yours about their team.

                Ever been to Bay 13 at the MCG before the the woke took over, put the blinky seats in and called it “Boundary Social”?

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                OldOzzie

                Sceptical Sam thanks for that reference

                Quercetin: Antiviral Significance and Possible COVID-19 Integrative Considerations

                https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1934578X20976293

                Have bookmarked and will send to my GP

                Using Gene Set Enrichment Analyses, vitamin D and Que have been identified as putative COVID-19 mitigation agents.

                Que, Zinc, Bromelain, and Vitamin C

                A quadruple therapy consisting of zinc, Que, bromelain, and vitamin C has been suggested to show a promising positive therapeutic effect in patients

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                David A

                The effort to marginalize all who go against government policy is amazingly obvious, to the point if the US intimating you are a terrorist if you counter the official line. The example of this marginalization smear tactic ( of antivirals and medical personnel and virologist) are so common that there us no point in discussion with those that deny it.

                Yes, there is much push back from sane people around the world, and hopefully the statist have gone a bridge to far. ( If the vaccine dangers fail to completely manifest there us a chance at recovery)

                One of dozens of examples it the Government suppression of natural immunity benefits far above any vaccine. The vaccines are initially effective, then losing efficacy weekly, and were designed for alpha, not delta.

                US case count is now very difficult to quantify, as there are far fewer vaccinated tested, ( CDC inane policy) yet their viral loads are equally high,
                (Admitted by the CDC) and they are less likely to be symptomatic. So do we have more asymptomatic spreaders because of the vaccine?

                There was a large break number of vaccinated COVID positive in a Vietnam study…
                “ Delta variant sequences obtained from community transmission cases, suggestive of ongoing transmission between the workers. Viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between ”

                https://papers.ssrn.com/sol

                These workers had extremely high viral loads, were infections to each other and a danger to patients.

                One year ago On October 28 2020 the US had 1031 Covid deaths.
                On that day they had 82,000 cases.
                Yesterday the US had 151,000 cases.
                and 1030 deaths.
                We don’t know the real number of cases because the asymptomatic vaccinated are not tested.
                This does not match your stated numbers per 100,000 cases.

                The Israeli pattern, ( now being followed by numerous heavily vaccinated early nations like the US) is a fairly rapid collapse of vaccine efficacy. One reason certainly is that we KNOW the vaccine creates large amounts of non -neutralizing anti bodies, while the antibody count steady diminished. Now we know these non neutralizing anti bodies are potential for ADE. And this paper may explain why the pattern of hospitalized percentages of vaccinated is increasing to where the latest Israel efficacy is only 20 percent, and more vaccinated patients are having rapid collapse of defense against Delta.
                A recent publication stated…

                “Li et al. (Cell 184 :1-17, 2021) have reported that infection-enhancing antibodies directed against the N-terminal domain (NTD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein facilitate virus infection in vitro, but not in vivo. However, this study was performed with the original Wuhan/D614G strain. Since the Covid-19 pandemic is now dominated with Delta variants, we analyzed the interaction of facilitating antibodies with the NTD of these variants. Using molecular modelling approaches, we show that enhancing antibodies have a higher affinity for Delta variants than for Wuhan/D614G NTDs. We show that enhancing antibodies reinforce the binding of the spike trimer to the host cell membrane by clamping the NTD to lipid raft microdomains. This stabilizing mechanism may facilitate the conformational change that induces the demasking of the receptor binding domain. As the NTD is also targeted by neutralizing antibodies, our data suggest that the balance between neutralizing and facilitating antibodies in vaccinated individuals is in favor of neutralization for the original Wuhan/D614G strain. However, in the case of the Delta variant, neutralizing antibodies have a decreased affinity for the spike protein, whereas facilitating antibodies display a strikingly increased affinity. Thus, ADE may be a concern for people receiving vaccines based on the original Wuhan strain spike sequence (either mRNA or viral vectors).”.

                Which by the way is EVERYBODY vaccinated. so oops, not good.
                Oh, here is the paper quoted

                https://www.journalofinfect

                One big question is why are previously exposed people not tested before even considering a vaccine? Their immunity is broader and longer lasting.
                They produce IgG antibodies and are now robustly immune to any and all variants; the immunity built from natural infection is conserved across the various epitopes of the virus in all cases because the “N” portion of the virus, which has to remain more-or-less intact for it to be able to be a virus, forms the backbone and bulk of the immune response built following natural infection!

                There are some pathology methods that the vaccines could harm this natural immunity.

                In addition natural infection with Covid-19 is sterilizing. Being infected and recovering conserves the nasal and respiratory mucosal response which is where the virus enters the body.
                Vaccines don’t do this.

                Natural infection also conveys both “N” (nucleocapsid) and “S” (spike) antibody knowledge and T-cell recognition but the “N” knowledge is much stronger as coronaviruses have evolved to evade the immune system with the “S” portion through millions of years. This is why they can infect you in the first place. The “S” portion undergoes mutation at a quite-rapid rate while the “N” portion is conserved. It was thus expected that prior infection would lead to durable (years to decades) of resistance and indeed that’s exactly what we have found thus far. Indeed in a small study it was found that this recognition extended to the bone marrow in a large percentage of cases and in those people is likely to confer decades-long if not lifetime protection. This is not true for “S” induced immunity as it wanes rapidly and, far worse that is where the mutation is taking place and thus where escape risk lies.

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                Lucky

                David A
                Thanks, but link not working.

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              Ronin

              Viral pneumonia ??

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            Vicki Sanderson

            Avoiding the cytokine storm initially seems key to surviving covid infection. If HCQ + Zn, or IVM do that, then people ought to be allowed to use them. Vit D supplements cut covid risk by half, but take 30 days or more to raise serum D levels so it isn’t an overnight treatment.

            Right on, Lance.

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              Hanrahan

              The active form of Vitamin D [calcitriol ?] can be injected IV for immediate results.

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                David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

                G’day Vicki,
                Re vitamin D:
                I thought it only took about 14 days, but either way, start now. Don’t wait for any test or its results.
                Maybe with a bolus dose of, say, 50,000 IUs?
                Cheers
                Dave B

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                Custer Van Cleef

                I was wondering about that too: do any readers know if hospitalized cases of Covid, are getting an injection of Calcitriol — that is, vitamin D in the form for immediate uptake by T-cells? … is an intravenous drip-feed feasible?

                We all know by now that an oral supplement of vit D takes several days to raise serum levels.
                Any shortcut would be a benefit, you would think, as long as it’s safe.

                Any readers know more?

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          Chris

          Small pox is alive and well and living in labs in Atlanta and Moscow. It will only take one cranky person to resuscitate it.

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            TdeF

            Does China have it?

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              Raving

              Lol, what do you think?

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                TdeF

                Why? It would have to be given to them by someone else. Who?

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                Raving

                You can assume it was given by someone else or else locally aquired. Smallpox would be a basic item for any biohazard reference collection

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                TdeF

                I doubt it very much. They had to manufacture their own deadly virus from their own bats. Stealing smallpox would be the crime of the century and no one was mad enough, surely. Not even the French or Fauci. Any more than they would hand over nuclear weapon technology. It is crazy enough that they helped the Chinese Communists get started on creating their own killer viruses.

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              Chris

              With all the thieving that China does, it would be naive to think they haven’t secured a beaker or two.

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          Analitik

          Smallpox was eradicated when enough of the worlds population were vaccinated to limit its transmission

          If you did your research, you would know this is not true. This is what they initially tried but then they realised that there would always be some unvaccinated people somewhere at some time (babies get born) so they had to give up on the universal vaccination approach for eradication.

          What did work was that they responded to reported outbreaks and vaccinated those in the immediate region who were not infected, choking off the hosts that the virus needed to propagate. But this only worked because the smallpox vaccine is sterilizing so those who are vaccinated cannot pass it on. If the vaccine had been leaky, like the CoViD ones, it would not have worked (and they wouldn’t have even attempted eradicaion).

          This was some of the best work done by the WHO. Back then, it was a medical organisation rather than a political one.

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            Peter Fitzroy

            “responded to reported outbreaks and vaccinated those in the immediate region who were not infected,” so the transmission was limited as I said,

            so I will take all your green thumbs

            The main point no vaccine is 100% effective, if yo could debate that, I might have some respect for you

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              Analitik

              The smallpox vaccine IS 100% effective at preventing transmission.

              What is NOT effective is the expectation of universal vaccination as a strategy to prevent infections, especially with leaky vaccines.

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              R.B.

              Nobody is interested in respect from people that they don’t respect. People who are extremely arrogant despite being shown to be of much lower intellect than desirable from someone who sees himself as an academic.

              Covid vaccines are not significantly effective at stopping transmission as seen in spikes in countries close to full immunisation of nearly the whole population.

              1% of Iceland’s population caught Covid in the past month. Starting with 2 active cases, and 90% of adults fully vaccinated. If small pox vaccines were this useless, the program would have failed, maybe even been given up on.

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          R.B.

          Peter, you need to think more. These Covid vaccines are much less than 95% effective at stopping infection so that the individual doesn’t become infectious. This what you need to eradicate a disease.

          Israel, despite widespread full vaccination, has seen a spike to 8000 cases a day. Its active cases is about 10% less than at the beginning of the year and daily deaths are about a third – most likely to be higher soon.

          Protection from death (average over the whole population) appears to be 70%. The quick spread indicates that protection from being infected enough to be contagious is closer to 0. You couldn’t get a spike in active cases like that, 100 fold in 2 months, if 70% effective in stopping people being infected.

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      Analitik

      Yes, so why have we committed to vaccination targets before opening up?

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        OriginalSteve

        Because its about brainwashing the population into the stupid idea that non-vaccines vaccines will protect them.

        If you watch the news, its so clearly getting people conditioned to tight controls via emotive mass hysteria and crushing financial penalties.

        Most shop owners I spoke to about non compliance openly said its about the fines, not our welfare. Apparently the authorities appear to threaten them with not just an $8000 fine, but legally basically work them over like bouncers. Thats a mafia protection racket…..

        About a virus? Complete b*llocks.

        Its about force and occupation of this country by the N W O mafia/”taliban”.

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          el gordo

          ‘Its about force and occupation of this country by the N W O mafia/”taliban”.

          Not quite, its about isolating one particular social group which disobeys laws, drug mules have a lot to answer for.

          ‘Gladys Berejiklian will extend the Greater Sydney lockdown until October and impose even harsher restrictions on Covid-19 hotspots, including a nightly curfew and limits on outdoor exercise.’ (Oz)

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            Analitik

            You have figures that show drug mules are the primary spreaders?
            Logically, illicit drug users and sellers would then figure highly in the CoViD case numbers. Is this the case?

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              Vicki Sanderson

              Social media source (take that as you may) reports that the Dubbo outbreak ultimately derived from this activity.

              Couriers, both legit & non-legit, are an obvious danger for transmission, especially into the regions outside cities.

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            Peter Fitzroy

            not the rich escaping to their holiday home/hobby farm?

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        Chris

        Because our government has signed onerous contracts with Pharmaceutical companies for these “vaccines” that have thoroughly screwed us over.

        Three prime ministers that refused to buy into the vaccine narrative have died . Vaccines are now being distributed in those countries. My guess is that the Pharma companies do not want an unvaccinated ‘control group” when the mud hits the fan.

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    tonyb

    “… the ship was carrying 2895 guests and 1441 crew with 96.5% of the passengers and 99.98% of the crew vaccinated. They didn’t clarify if “vaccinated” meant fully vaccinated or what specific vaccines everyone had gotten.”

    That is 0.5% who got infected , the overwhelming majority had few symptoms. Includes unfortunately one death. As yet we don’t know the vaccine type nor whether people were fully double inoculated. I suspect the passengers were as their age profile would likely mean that happened as a priority. AS for the crew? Well we don’t know, but if it were the first cruise they are likely to be drawn from a wide group of people of all ranges and time may have prevented everyone getting 2 jabs if, like in England, they spaced the jabs many weeks apart.

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      Robber

      On every cruise, with 3,000 mainly elderly passengers, someone generally dies.

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        TdeF

        Only one? My wife went on one European group trip where one of the people was terminally ill. The whole group did a hospital tour by bus of European emergency waiting rooms.

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          Tonyb,

          As a microcosm of our whole community if the virus spread that far in a week on the cruise, how exactly are “vaccine passports” going to protect a community of a million people living permanently in the same city?

          What are the odds an unvaccinated person will not contract Covid from a vaccinated person in the next year?

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            Vicki Sanderson

            Precisely, Jo.

            That’s why it is ludicrous for sanctimonious vaccinated people to treat the unvaccinated like lepers. It is the unvaccinated, in the long term, who must avoid the vaccinated.

            This is precisely why the release of anti-virals is quite urgent.

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            tonyb

            Jo

            I am totally against vaccine passports for civil liberties health and practical reasons.

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            Jo, curiously enough, your argument also shows why the constant testing of 100’s of thousands of people a day to find 0.3% PCR test positive cases is insane. I.e. if one is tested positive then there was at least one positive person before that also contagious and spreading the virus( not that the PCR is diagnostic, especially at the cycles they are run at). The only way to get the true current infection status of a population is to test the entire population at the same time, but then you will need to repeat it on a regular basis until no positive tests are found.

            And, since this “disease” has been in the world since sep/oct 2019 the number of infected yet still healthy people will be significantly larger than the millions of postive PCR tests recorded around the world, and each of them (even those in Australia, could start the next round.

            Antivirals and immune support are the most likely way for individuals to battle this and many other viruses. And as most of them are readily available in your local pharmacy there is no reason to hesitate in stocking up.

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              Analitik

              Exactly. Serology tests for antibodies to SARS-COV-2 have been done in some countries and they all show vastly more people have been infected and recovered than the PCR testing would suggest.

              We would not continue to have “mystery” cases if this were not the case, particularly with the Delta variant.

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    Wixy

    I’m told this thing can be caught more than once, which makes me opine that being vaccinated is probably a waste of time.

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      0.5 % of cases in a sealed vessel with many elderly and vulnerable people, seems to me to be a surpringly good result for the efficacy of vaccines.

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        Travis T. Jones

        How about a one in seven?

        HMS Queen Elizabeth: Covid outbreak on Navy ship
        https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57830617

        Ship has crew of 700.
        All double dosed.
        100 reinfected.

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          Travis

          There are 1400 people on board the carrier and 3400 in the strike force. Seems they picked it up in Limassol when they presumably examined some of the population at close quarters.

          No one seems to have been badly affected and the strike formations plans were not affected.

          So again, I would say this demonstrates the vaccine had some degree of success.

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            TdeF

            I cannot understand why anyone would red thumb this statement of obvious fact. But I have to say many of my comments are now acquiring red thumbs as the anti Vaxers are up. I can only conclude it is a form of religion, a bit like Global Warming.

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              Tonyb, I thought everyone knew that vaccines reduce the rate of severe infection (for these variants at the moment). I’ve covered that so many times here. Is it news to you?

              I figured it was not worth repeating in the post.

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                David A

                The vaccine advantage is disappearing rapidly.
                The vaccine harms are growing rapidly .

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                tonyb

                Jo

                Of course I am aware of that. Many of your readers however do not seem to want to accept it so I was reinforcing the point, and getting red thumbs in the process.

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            Rob

            The Strike Force would be crewed by mostly young people who are not at risk from Covid anyway. So a 100 out 700 (or 1400) get covid? Proves the vaccine is useless.

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            David A

            100 hundred cases of Covid in a healthy young population should have very little affect.
            ( Before the vaccine)

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          David A

          How about 11of 14…

          https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0804-breakthrough-covid-20210803-t32trfpiwzdf5okfar45f64whi-story.html

          In the US about 90 percent of the vulnerable are vaccinated. Half the overall population is vaccinated. Despite the fact that we now know the asymptomatic vaccinated infected are massive Covid shedders, we don’t generally test them. ( That’s right, our CDC has zero interest in knowing if millions of vaccinated, now asymptomatic infected, are spreading Covid) However the viral loads in the vaccinated are extremely high.

          https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733

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            Serp

            Seemingly the injections provide a storehouse for the virus: “viral loads in the vaccinated are extremely high”.

            Hands up who’s happy to be the only unvaccinated person in a household?

            Unfortunately Pandora’s opened the box and as TdeF sagely notes eventually everybody will have contracted it, there’s no hiding place and the postman knocks twice &c.

            Anyway, if having seen the Victor Dominello adverse reaction on the cretiniser (Fred Hollows’s name for television) people keep lining up to be inoculated it will be an encouragement for further indignities to be foisted on the population; as maybe our leaders’ll find a reason for us to go everywhere on hands and knees.

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          Vicki Sanderson

          And, one assumes, all were fit, healthy young men.

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        Broadie

        0.5 % of cases in a sealed vessel with many elderly and vulnerable people, seems to me to be a surpringly good result for the efficacy of vaccines.

        So nothing has changed since before the COVID Scare then has it TonyB. Men and Woomen go down to the sea in ships as part of an end of life adventure, some get sick, some die and come come back in the freezer. These outcomes are weather and destination dependent, or just plain bad luck.

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          Analitik

          Yes, every night on the news they report CoViD deaths and almost invariably, they are people aged 70 and above. I’m not saying those people’s lives meant nothing but how many people in that age category die each day, especially those over 90 (which is common in the CoViD deaths reporting)?

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            Len

            I routinely received the current score of the number of cases of Covid several times a day. They are always there when I crank up the emails first thing in the morning. This is from the Australian Newspaper online.

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      TdeF

      To be caught more than once, you have to survive the first time. Which is actually good news. How many times have you had the flu?

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        As long as there is no ADE or OAS type rection to future variants.

        OAS means Original Antigenic Sin — meaning your body makes a rapid but not very useful response and when new mutations come it proves counterproductive.

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          David A

          Evidence of both…
          ADE…
          https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243262

          Can’t find my OAS paper now, but this was in the process of happening as well.

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          Vicki Sanderson

          Virologist Dr. Robert Malone &, I believe, John P. A. Ioannidis is a Greek-American physician-scientist, writer and Stanford University professor, reckon this seems to be happening already.

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          Will Gray

          Blood, taken from SARS covid one veteran, and then exposed to SARS covid two, (covid 19) responded T cell amounts showed cellular memory persistence. Now there’s 20% difference between them. A variant is at 7%. Fwiw, I do believe the covid 19 is engineered.

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          Will Gray

          Hi Jo, so what this says is that you shouldn’t need a top up vaccines.

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          Will Gray

          What’s in the vaccines?
          What’s in the ,,,top up vaccines?
          Its obvious Iceland Israel sheaselles etc etc it’s far better from hindsight antivirals would have ended the virus.

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        David A

        So now it’s a flu?
        Natural immunity is far superior.
        Zero reinfection rate in over 1000 past victims…
        https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2

        The distribution and type of antibodies are different; that much is certain. The vaccines produce spike protein antibodies only, where natural infection produces mostly “N” protein antibodies. In addition there is a very significant difference between CD4 and CD8 response between natural infection and the jabs. Natural immunity does not produce a very high count of non neutralizing antibodies. Natural immunity sets the stage for effective long term T cell response, and covers a broader spectrum of variations. Natural immunity does not show symptoms of ADE.

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          OldOzzie

          David A from the Article – https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2

          Results Among the 52238 included employees, 1359 (53%) of 2579 previously infected subjects remained unvaccinated, compared with 22777 (41%) of 49659 not previously infected. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated, compared with a steady increase in cumulative incidence among previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated. Not one of the 1359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated had a SARS-CoV-2 infection over the duration of the study.

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            Lucky

            What the paper said-
            Individuals who have had the virus would not benefit from vaccination.

            What the paper did not say-
            Does vaccination reduce that immunity? Other sources suggest, yes vaccination weakens that immunity.

            Will your doc or the vaccination clinic tell you?

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          Tel

          I agree that natural immunity is superior.

          Most of the vaccinated people are ending up getting infected sooner or later anyhow, therefore they will have some kind of natural immunity after the vaccine fades.

          Eradication of the virus won’t happen but it’s worth looking at the 1889 “Russian Flu” pandemic, which quite likely was really a type of coronavirus and it’s still with us today but most people catch that one as kids and it simply goes around working as a perfectly natural vaccination program. It was bad in 1889 and 1890 when it first crossed over from cattle to humans, but mostly it killed old people, and very quickly the human population built up resistance to it.

          Astoundingly, the doctors at the time realized that Quinine (the original formulation) was somewhat effective as a treatment.

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          • #

            my thoughts are that there is way too much focus on the jabs and not enough on helping create better natural immunity or using medications like the Triple Therapy by Professor Thomas Borody

            there is no need for testing, its already been done in so many studies already
            and it is legal to use in Australia
            “Dr Borody says this could be the fastest and safest way to end the pandemic in Australia within 6-8 weeks”
            https://cairnsnews.org/2021/08/13/australian-gps-can-legally-prescribe-ivermectin-triple-therapy-protocol/

            but why wont they listen? extent that this government has gone to to suppress and discredit any alternative that is cheap ,effective and also a preventative is frightening

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    BernardP

    The root of the matter is that vaccines that target only the spike protein are not true vaccines. They are at best short to medium term treatments. Effectiveness diminishes markedly after 3 months and becomes undetectable after 6 or 7 months. As just one example, I’m posting this in case it has not been done previously:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34373860/

    Highlight: “Implications of all the available evidence: BNT162b2 (Pfizer) efficacy is likely to be diminished to under detection limit by 6-7 months post-1st shot on average.”

    All over the world, health and political leaders have bet everything on vaccines… and they have lost. They will now do everything to save face, including re-vaccinating multiple times on various pretexts.

    Incredibly, most people seem willing to accept the line that Covid vaccines don’t protect against infection, transmission, hospitalisation and death, that they just temporarily improve your odds. This is not the definition of a true vaccine.

    It’s time to put the emphasis on treatments (eg: Ivermectin), but leaders don’t want to let go of the Vaccine Mirage.

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      Bernard

      The cruise ship also demonstrates the efficacy of vaccines but I do not disagree that they gradually lose their effectiveness. We can’t keep on jabbing people every 6 months, I guess that every year, like flu would be acceptable but would be a huge logistical problem.

      As for anti vitals, again I do not disagree, but show me a study that a sceptical GP would accept and persuade them to offer you the stuff against the explicit advice from his or her health authority.

      Properly conducted tests need to be carried out before anti vitals are widely prescribed.

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      TdeF

      I would suggest that having a high level of antibodies drops away after three months as the crisis is over, but not the ability to ramp up these specific antibodies quickly. Resistance can last for many years but the antibody level metric can be misread as ability to respond quickly.

      With each new infection, the body has to recognize the threat and then determine and develop the appropriate antibodies quickly, which is a process which takes time and possibly trial and error.

      Innoculation is about prior exposure to the threat with a similar non replicating viral invasion, reducing the time to react and produce the specific antibodies and so stop the rapid development and major impacts of the virus. You have to save your own life. Innoculation gives you a head start, nothing more. It is certainly not a cure.

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        Analitik

        This has been shown to be true for those whose antibodies were a result of infection and then recovery from CoVid as a strong T-cell response appears to be produced. Also, because the infection path is though the lungs, the body recognises this and produces a mucosal response which blocks subsequent infections at the source.

        For those vaccinated, the response has been shown to fade badly after 6-8 months hence the scramble for booster shots in Israel and soon in the USA. Unlike infection, the vaccination only produces a circulatory response against an imperfect copy of the spike protein of the original SARS-CoV-2 variant which produces a weak T-cell response. This means that the antibodies only begin to fight the infection once it has become established and entered the bloodstream and the “memory” is poor.

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          OldOzzie

          VIRALEZE™ well tolerated in multiple dose clinical study

          Melbourne, Australia; 17 August 2021: Starpharma (ASX: SPL, OTCQX: SPHRY) today
          announced results from its VIRALEZE™ clinical safety study demonstrating the product was
          safe and well tolerated in accordance with the primary endpoint, and also confirming that the
          dendrimer antiviral in VIRALEZE™, SPL7013, was not absorbed into the bloodstream
          following nasal application.

          The randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled, safety, tolerability and pharmacokinetic
          study of VIRALEZE™ was conducted in 40 healthy volunteers who used the product four times
          a day for 14 days. The product was well tolerated with no notable or serious adverse events
          reported, and no participants discontinued product use.

          The study also confirmed that SPL7013 was not detected in the bloodstream following
          repeated nasal application. This finding is consistent with previous extensive nonclinical and
          clinical data showing lack of systemic absorption of SPL7013 following topical application to
          mucosal membranes

          Meanwhile Australian Medical Stasi

          Starpharma fined $93,000 for ‘unlawful advertising’ claiming its nasal spray stops SARS-CoV-2

          A Melbourne-based global biopharmaceutical company has been fined more than $93,000 after advertising a nasal spray which has not been approved for use in Australia.

          The Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) issued the company seven infringement notices totaling $93,240 for promoting its nasal spray, Viraleze, via its website and YouTube channel.

          It included “a restricted representation claiming that Viraleze is an antiviral nasal spray that stops SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.”

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    Travis T. Jones

    “Masks are now needed on Carnival cruise ships …”

    Masks are needed when double dosed Swampy Joe opens his lying mouth:

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/stacey-lennox/2021/08/20/breaking-beleaguered-biden-addresses-the-nation-on-afghanistan-amid-increasing-criticism-n1471357

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      Klem

      “Masks are needed when double dosed Swampy Joe opens his lying mouth”

      And based on the frequency that Joes pupils are so dilated they appear black, I suggest that its more than vaccines that Swampy Joe has been double dosing.

      Just sayin.

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        OriginalSteve

        Funny you should say that about his eyes….I recall having a dream whereby Joes eyes were like sharks eyes…black and soul-less…..like inhabited by something evil…

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    TdeF

    Consider also that this is in the usual very hot mid summer. Contrary to popular belief Northern summers can be hotter and longer than in Australia. Unlike Australia, there is no relief at night. Many cities from New York to Paris to Moscow to Rome become unlivable. So what will the infection and death rates be like in mid winter?

    Contrary to popular opinion, innoculation does not stop infection or death. No one ever said that. It only reduces the severity, length and risk of infection, just like the flu shot. And in doing so minimimizes the length of time somone is infected and the chance they pass on the virus. We know all this because we have lived with the Spanish flu for 100 years, with 2,000 Australian deaths a year.

    As long as there is international travel, no country can stop this virus arriving. And it will keep mutating in the giant populations of Asia where no one much is vaccinated.

    The question is which mutation will win. That where the benign virus finally wins because no one fights to stop something which only kills a few. The ultimate innoculation is by infection with a benign virus and this disaster will end while we shelter and save ourselves. The chance that the next mutation starts here is zero.

    I feel sorry for those people for whom shelter is impossible. And that includes the highly invaded countries of America, England, France and Italy as demanded by the UN/EU. The devastation of their societies is demanded by the enemies of democracy and aspiring world governments. Principle among those is China which manufactured and exported this killer virus massively, knowing full well that it would devastate everyone else.

    It is as obvious an attack as the bombing of Pearly Harbor without declaring war. This is confirmed by the fact that we in Australia are now being made to suffer economically for even questioning the origin of the virus. And there is worse to come. The Wuhan Military Institute of Viral research is still in full operation. And the American and European borders are still wide open.

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      TdeF

      And the death rate on this ship is actually amazingly low, considering everyone will have been exposed to this killer virus and this is the new Delta strain and the average age on cruise ships is often very high. The person who died was 77, so not a young holiday maker. That unfortunately is the fate of whole societies, as with the 2,000 generally old people each year who die in Australia from a 100 year old flu or the associated opportunistic pneumonia.

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      • #

        Can I just repeat that “death rate” doesn’t mean as much as it sounds like it does when the experiment was limited to a short cruise. As an annual rate, it might be quite different.

        But yes, obviously there is big difference with a week or two on this cruise compared to the unvaxxed Diamond Princess.

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          David A

          True Jo, but what are the demographic differences between these events?
          Are we talking the Carrier strike force?

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        stewartpid

        tdef … do the 2,000 per year spanish flu deaths all come about due to spanish flu or is that the total Oz flu deaths … just curious & thanks.

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      Tdef

      Do most Australian homes have air con? If so telling people to stay indoors a sealed house is likely to cause as many problems as when we in the k were told to stay inside warm poorly ventilated houses where the virus spread easily and homes became the third biggest source of infection after care homes and hospitals

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      • #
        TdeF

        Yes, they do. Of a sort. And it is only used in summer for most of Australia although that is changing with mass migration to Queensland which is tropical. Even there the winters are relatively cool for the tropics.

        Most Australian homes are very well ventilated because flinging open the doors and windows to air the place is a common activity. And for much of the year neither heating nor airconditioning are used. And people love to sit outside if possible, despite the mosquitoes and crocodiles.

        There is no snow, little need for double glazing and for 90% of the time and country, low humidity. In my sea side suburb in Melbourne near the sea has never been below zero. And the nights are always much cooler. So a temperate or desert climate, apart from Queensland. Closer to Italy and Greece and North Africa in effect. Cold not freezing winters and hot, not stifling summers.

        I have had overseas guests complain both that we do not have enough heating in winter and not enough closed airconditioning in summer. It comes from a history where we did not need either.

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          Tdef

          Cool, low humidity and lack of ventilation were said to be major causes of covid spreading. We certainly had the lack of ventilation and often low humidity as energy is expensive and once the house has become warm you want to keep that in and the central heating tends to dry out the house.

          Here in south west England we rarely get snow and never get crocodiles and humidity is high due to the proximity of the sea. And lots of rain.

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            TdeF

            The South West, into the Gulf Stream and the Southernmost part of England and 50 North seems to have more a Spanish Climate, even Southern Australian without the sun intensity and brilliant blue skies. Australia, the whole Southern Hemisphere is much cooler than the North, obviously because there is so little land apart from Australia.

            But the bulk of the population is North of London where conditions are very different. And as Billy Connolly said, Scotland has only two seasons, August and winter.

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            • #

              Air conditioning does indeed help a lot of viruses. Humidity is often more important than a few different degrees of room temperature.

              Some viruses love cooler dry air.

              An evaporative air conditioner probably has quite a different effect to a heat pump or condenser based one. Especially as evaporative ones have a high air throughput. These are common in Australia because they are cheap to run. People have to keep the windows open for them to work.

              Generally warmer air and higher humidity reduced the transmission of Covid. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-90873-5

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          OldOzzie

          Most Australian homes are very well ventilated because flinging open the doors and windows to air the place is a common activity. And for much of the year neither heating nor airconditioning are used. And people love to sit outside if possible, despite the mosquitoes and crocodiles.

          Here in Sydney near Sea on Northern Beaches – Gas Central Heating for Winter – usually briefly in the morning to take overnight chill off the house (full Brick and Concrete) and evenings when sun goes down just for the evening to make snug (set at 20C) and turn off around 9pm

          Summers as you say, no air conditioning – lock 3 screen doors and leave doors and windows open and NE afternoon sea breeze cools house

          No Mossies here – definitely no Midges or Crocs

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          Annie

          We are only 2 hours drive from Melbourne but the other side of the Great Dividing Range. Our conditions are rather different. Colder in winter, hotter in summer (although we almost, but not quite, made it to 40C last summer). We were obliged to put in double-glazing here and plentiful roof insulation. We have used our woodstove daily all day for months now and have used a heck of a lot of wood. Luckily it also gives us plentiful hot water, warm radiators in the bathrooms and our cooking needs. I’m very thankful for the AC in the heat in summer when it does heat up. Except on the coldest and hottest days we have windows open a bit for ventilation and we have deliberately not sealed closely around doors so that there is always some airflow. I think that is much healthier than the hermetically sealed homes of some of my family in the UK,

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            Annie

            BTW, no crocs here but plenty of mossies last summer after lots of rain. Also lots of snakes, spiders, flies, ants, wombats, possums, foxes, deer, kangaroos and wallabies, millions of pestilential sulphur-crested cockatoos, midges various, crickets, millipedes, moths, etc. We must be a wildlife haven! Also loadsa worms, increased from none to be seen when we first came here. Lotsa lichen on trees; must be very healthy air, so need to get out into it now the sun is out; VitD dosing time. 🙂

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            tonyb

            Annie

            Agreed. In the UK, hermetically sealed homes with Europes tubbiest population sitting in them is literally a killer. Yet Our govt repeatedly told us to stay indoors rather than in the fresh air, getting exercise and Vitamin D.

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              Annie

              Yes Tony, crackers advice from the gov’t. Like the insane shutting down of children’s playgrounds in Melbourne; the parents of children in tower blocks, no gardens, no opening windows, must be desperate and it’s so unhealthy. Absolutely cruel and crackpot.

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    TdeF

    Vaccination is not a cure. No one ever said it was. Everyone on the cruise has antibodies but that is no guarantee of survival.

    There is a death rate on such holidays which is suprisingly high anyway, but it is kept quiet on the cruise ships and in the major resorts. A lot of old and sometimes terminally ill people take these holidays knowing the risk and sometimes as a last wish. And older people generally have what is called comorbidities, like high blood pressure, lung and heart problems and just poor health or compromised immune systems and far from healthy life styles. There are a lot of wheel chairs on such cruises. In fact cruises are particularly enjoyable and appropriate for people with poor mobility.

    I would draw the conclusion that the vaccination is working, or at least as well as any vaccination. And that in time is enough reason to get it. However a benign mutation will sweep the world soon enough because no one will stop it. We can only be grateful that no mutation so far has attacked children and young people, unlike the second wave of the Spanish flu which killed everyone, quickly.

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      Analitik

      The problem with the vaccines is that they force selection away from the natural path towards greater infectiousness and more benign effects. Instead, the selection pressure is to evade the antibodies produced and other effects of the mutation are random.

      The Delta variant is natural mutation as India had very, very low vaccination levels when it emerged so it is more infectious than the original and more benign if you look at the UK figures.

      The Lambda variant is a vaccine forced selection as it emerged in South America after some countries there vaccinated heavily with the Chinese vaccines. This can be seen but it being no more infectious than the original and having almost identical effects but being resistant to the vaccines.

      From memory, the second wave of the Spanish Flu was associated with a secondary bacterial infection that led to pneumonia. It is just as likely that the mutation was with the bacteria to take advantage of the weakened systems from the flu.
      https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/bacterial-pneumonia-caused-most-deaths-1918-influenza-pandemic

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    Harves

    After destroying the economy and livelihoods to save the lives of octogenarians, apparently our Govt will turn around and allow thousands to die without lockdowns once we have 70% vaccination. This is their stated plan. Does anyone seriously believe they’ll go through with this?

    The UK has 75% of adults vaccinated yet over 100 deaths a day.

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    • #
      TdeF

      But that is down a huge 90%. And as with the Spanish flu, there is a limit to what science can do to forewarn and prepare your immune system. And it is your immune system which has to beat this thing. And no government can control that.

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      • #
        TdeF

        Governments are just implementing strategies to win. Like fighting Hitler. 40,000 people died in the Blitz, indiscriminately. What choice was there? Blaming governments for making hard choices is pointless. The war plan is simple, win against this killer virus while losing as few people as possible.

        At the same time, in Victoria, our deadly Premier stopped Easter for Christians but let Ramadan go ahead. Cedar Meats was allowed to keep operating despite spreading the virus because the owner was a major donor and Andrews needs the muslim vote. Even now the disease is obviously rampant in the muslim community and spreading from there. But we were not allowed have more than a few hundred people to ANZAC day while the BLM march was approved, with hundreds of subsequent infections. The solo decisions of this tyrant are directly responsible for most of the deaths in Australia.

        Some politicians are striking a hard balance, trying to keep the place functioning, like Gladys. She has been defeated only by the new Delta variant which is much more infectious. In Victoria, Andrews just loves the power to be a dictator. And as was shown at his own fake trial, senior public servants like the Police Commissioner openly lied to cover for Deadly Dan. And Dan blamed the people who covered for him, like Health Minister Jenny Mikakos who said as much.

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      The majority dying here are over the average age of deaths at 82 years old or so and most have existing illnesses.

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        TdeF

        I was reading that in Australia in 1950 the average life expectancy was an amazingly low 62. It is now also 82. Viruses may lower that. But when the British first arrived in India, infant and child mortality was so great that the average life expectancy was 24.

        I have also read that maternal mortality in the UK in 1870 was 30% in childbirth. Which is why the stories of the evil stepmother were popular and now harder to understand. The major cause of death for mothers was septic infection caused by the doctors who never washed their hands. The mothers usually died around seven days. Plus the lack of antiseptics let alone antibiotics meant many operations were fatal. The breakthrough was in the preparation for the American D Day landings. And that changed the world.

        We are now in a world where people over 80 reasonably expect to to be able to go on a cruise with no risk. Which is itself an amazing development.

        However we know that the bulk of the world population are under 30. And untouched by this virus. That is mathematically irresistible to a virus, which is a dead chemical with a motto, populate or perish. It will happen. We must be prepared, innoculated, ready to slam the doors shut. At least until the most successful, the benign virus arrives.

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          Robber

          375 people die every day in Australia, yet we obsess about 2-3 Covid related deaths. It was only during the Victorian disaster last year that we had two days of over 40 deaths, and in 18 months 972 deaths have been attributed to Covid, an average of less than 2 per day.

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          • #
            TdeF

            It seems improbably harsh that we fear this virus so much. But we have incidentally lowered death by all viruses, saving 2000 lives from the flu alone. We have yet to add in the jump in losses from suicide, especially from teenage girls as reported this week. And the losses from untreated sickness. In the UK it has also been reported that 10% of infections are acquired within the hospital system, which is very worrying.

            However it reminds me of the last days of Archimedes where the good fathers of the city of Syracuse opened the gates to the Romans after a long siege. They argued it could not be any worse, but Archimedes disagreed. Everyone died, including Archimedes even though the soldiers were under strict instructions to spare him alone.

            The fact that so few have died does not mean we should open the gates.

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              Analitik

              Wow, so we should stay locked down forever. Fabulous.

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              • #
                TdeF

                No, I did not say that. Nor did Archimedes.

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              • #

                Robber, like a house fire allowed to grow, those 2-3 deaths will rise exponentially in a population which at the moment is not well protected.

                The UK ignored 2 – 3 deaths and got 130,000 and counting… and remember, to keep it as low as that, they had long ongoing restrictions until “freedom day” and are now pinging all the contacts they can find to keep transmission lower.

                Australia is only 28% fully vaccinated.

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              • #
                PeterS

                Jo, in a real fire one would use an appropriate fire retardant to extinguish the fire totally. In the case of the current pandemic there is no such “retardant” and in fact some would argue we are squirting petrol on the fire with some of our current measures.

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              • #
                tonyb

                peterS

                That is exactly what happened in the UK.

                It was unfortunate it was a long winter so the population had little vitamin D but then the problem was made much worse by telling everyone to stay indoors their poorly ventilated houses, clearing the hospitals of untested old people into care homes and hospitals themselves being significant vectors of population.

                So very many tens of thousands of people died because of the panic measures as Govt accidentally threw petrol on the fire.

                Having said that the overwhelming majority were well over the age of a natural death so were especially vulnerable to any respiratory diseaes and we had 2 light flu seasons. . Add in the anomaly that many of those who officially died OF covid actually died WITH it and the numbers would not be remotely near the 130,000 Jo quotes.

                Mind you it would be impossible to shut down a country so early in the pandemic when 2 or 3 people died in winter, when 1500 die every day and many hundreds more in a bad flu season.

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            • #
              beowulf

              VIC now in state-wide lockdown until Sept 2 and 832 new cases in NSW on Saturday despite the lockdown since June now heading towards October.

              How should we measure the effectiveness of this constant lockdown-vaccinate-lockdown-vaccinate charade? Is it by the number of small business closures or the number of those considering suicide?

              That’s a hypothetical question I know, given that there are absolutely positively no safe cheap effective antiviral drugs in the known universe that could ever be used to end the epidemic in say a couple of weeks . . . and keep it at bay with never another lockdown or COVID “vaccine” in sight. If only we had such an alternative, how normal life could be.

              3,345 callers sought support from Lifeline Australia on Monday this week, the highest volume of calls in the organisation’s 58-year history.

              Lifeline has broken its record for calls per day 3 times this month, and 5 of its 10 busiest days ever also occurred this month. I don’t think they were calling Lifeline to get a recipe for lamingtons.

              Foodbank Victoria food hamper charity was forced to close after creating a traffic hazard. The overwhelming level of demand for their food was so great that the traffic congestion became a public safety issue and the police told them to close down early.

              https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/08/overwhelming-demand-melbourne-food-hamper-charity-forced-to-close-it-was-creating-traffic-hazard-aft.html

              The social effects of lockdowns are cumulative and devastating and we ain’t seen nuthin’ yet.

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            • #
              Tel

              Your history is wrong. The main city of Syracuse was taken by stealth … a party of Roman soldiers scaled the walls in the middle of the night.

              The inner citadel fell to treachery … not by agreement of the “good fathers” but to a single person in exchange for his own life. Besides that, the inner citadel had no hope of holding out at that stage, they were completely surrounded and out of food. They could have chosen slow painful suicide, or quick surrender. There is not a detailed number for how many civilians the Romans murdered, but there’s no evidence it was all of them.

              Fortunately we have vastly better options available against COVID including not worrying at all. Even in the UK with their less than competent NHS and higher than typical COVID deaths, they still found that 99.8% of the population survived which is significantly better than Syracuse.

              It’s strange how many people ignore the fact that the number of new infections per day went DOWN in the UK after their “freedom day” when all the hand wringers were sure it would go up. I never heard a row of apologies, or comments like “Gosh, maybe I don’t really understand this as well as I thought”. Instead people simply ignore the statistics and go on repeating their beliefs.

              The current COVID death rate in the UK is reported at about 90 people per day (much lower than earlier waves) and for comparison about 500 die in the UK per day from heard disease … very likely letting people out saved many more lives than it cost.

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            • #
              Raving

              unvaccinated is unvaccinated

              When people and doctors start blaming the unvaxxed for their woes, mob hysteria has set in

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                Analitik

                It’s already well and truly underway, here. The federal government messaging for vaccination targets to be hit before rolling back restriction ensures that there is a premise that you need to get vaccinated to “do your part”. The celebrity propaganda campaign is promoting this and causing a rift in the community.

                Meanwhile most state governments are adamant that they want zero community transmission which the vaccines cannot ensure, since they are leaky and increasingly so over time, so there will be an interesting confrontation if the targets are reached.

                My only hope is that our media get forced to acknowledge the situation in countries like Israel and Iceland so the masses understand the very real limitations of the vaccines for controlling CoViD and we get some proper appreciation of how anti-virals are working in the poorer countries

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                shannon

                I would like to know WHY governments cant “allow” ALL fully vaccinated people to be released from lockdown….??
                Obviously if you have followed the Govn orders ..than WHY cant they be freed to get on with their lives.?
                Gladys needs to realise these “lockdowns” are what the population are going to remember…not the revolving door of a flu that will be with us for years to come…..

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            Tilba Tilba

            It was only during the Victorian disaster last year that we had two days of over 40 deaths, and in 18 months 972 deaths have been attributed to Covid, an average of less than 2 per day.

            It seems to me that is a good reason for the strict measures put in place – here in Victoria certainly. Without the lockdowns and mask mandates, infection rates and severe or fatal cases would undoubtedly have been much higher.

            The Delta Variant is making all of this much more difficult, with its higher R0, and now 850 cases identified in NSW on Friday.

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            • #
              Analitik

              The Delta variant is making all of this much more difficultimpossible

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            • #
              RickWill

              NSW is already in a race between infection and vaccinations. The hospitals are under stress. The spreading event in Wilcannia was a funeral where some 500 people from the western region attended. Many of those will be a vulnerable. That is a nightmare unfolding.

              The only way NSW will avoid hospitals being overrun is to accelerate vaccinations while also maintaining their too-little-too-late controls. NSW have already exceeded Melbourne’s peak in 2020 and the infection rate remains around 1.3. It appears the vaccination is already reducing the hospital load because half of the current cases in NSW are aged under 30yo. Less than 20% of cases are 60yo or more. This link is a couple of days behind but it shows how fast the cases are rising:
              http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countries&highlight=Australia&show=highlight-only&y=both&scale=linear&data=cases-daily&data-source=jhu&xaxis=right#countries
              On Saturday, NSW reported 832 cases. It is getting beyond a slow burn now. Time will tell how the hospitals cope. But places like Wilcannia have no hospital:
              https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2021/08/17/nobody-cared-until-now-western-nsw-communities-reeling-over-new-covid-cases

              Mr McLachlan said some 60 per cent of cases have been in Aboriginal people, and two in five are in young people aged 10 to 19.

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              • #
                beowulf

                The only way NSW will avoid hospitals being overrun is to accelerate vaccinations while also maintaining their too-little-too-late controls.

                Alternatively they could do something effective like handing out IVM/zinc/D3 which would have an immediate effect of halting the spread and treating those already infected, most without the need for hospitalisation at all.

                Or as you suggest they could do the same old lockdown-vaccinate rinse and repeat routine which will take many weeks to have any effect at all and then only a partial effect.

                Keep those blinkers on Rick.

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          Harves

          When my parents were born, they had a life expectancy of less than 60. Amazingly they are both now in their 80s. The Govt insisted they get vaccinated which they did. But now the Govt says it is for their own good that they are now isolated from family and remaining friends for weeks/months… just in case they die.

          What a sad way for many of that generation to spend their last months. Existing rather than living.

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        Harves

        Yep, Covid is almost as deadly as daily life.

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      Tel

      Although a few of the days are over 100 per day, most have been lower, in the past month. Typical is closer to 90 per day.

      https://epidemic-stats.com/coronavirus/uk

      The population of the UK is about 68 million so therefore if it was a lottery then every person in the UK would have about one in a million chance per day to die of COVID, based on current death rate. Of course, it’s not evenly distributed and young people have practically zero chance … but these numbers are simply for ballpark comparison.

      In a typical year about 1600 people die per day in the UK, and COVID is no longer even in the top 5 causes of death. That’s presuming all the reported COVID deaths really are caused by COVID, and that’s unlikely to be true. It probably is no longer even in the top 10 causes of death.

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  • #
    RightOverLabour

    More links from Dr Malone Skip the introduction and go straight to the presenters from about 16:00

    https://rumble.com/vldbwt-truth-for-health-foundation-press-conference-august-192021.html

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    PeterS

    This will be interesting. The comments there by truckies are indicating it’s now show time. I wish them well.
    Queensland’s border vaccine demand fuels truckies already in angry blockade mode

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      Brenda Spence

      This whole thing is becoming ridiculous!

      Listening to ABC newsradio this morning, I was getting more and more angry. They were saying essential workers in Queensland who lived in NSW would have to be vaccinated to go to work across the border: some epidemiologist woman who is part of WHO is saying hildren as young as 5 need to be vaccinated to stop the spread: that children were going to be vaxxed at school en masse: and you wont be able to enter WA without a vax certificate shortly.

      The pressure to be jabbed is becoming extreme. Do these people not do any research before they make these decisions? I have seen awful prognotications about the long term effects of these innoculations that are frankly very worrying. Dolores Cahill, an Irish molecular biologist and immunologist, has suggested that people could start dying within 3 years! I sure hope she is wrong!

      Ryan Cole, an American pathologist, has described the effects of the spike protein on the blood vessel lining and inflammation in major organs from laboratory specimens and condemned the use of these mRNA injections. There are many, many others saying similar things.

      And yet, here we are having them pushed on us at every turn and they dont even do the job of a vaccine, merely a therapeutic agent with potentially serious side effects.

      How soon will it be before we cant even shop without a “vaccine passport”?

      I dont like where this is going.

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        PeterS

        It has already gone too far and any thought of trying to turn things around will be a waste of time and effort, sadly. The people have decided; vaccinate! It will be interesting to see what the rate will be by the end of the year. I would not be surprised if it exceed the 70% target easily. We might even reach 80% or beyond once the vaccine passports are used more widely. It’s like watching a snowball rolling down a hill getting bigger and bigger. Each time some people try to stand in front of it to try and stop it they get rolled over as though they weren’t even there. The elite have only one thing in mind; a regime change to control the people and turn us into slaves. Vaccine passports for non-essential areas are just the start. Eventually it might even become a criminal act NOT to take a vaccine. I always thought that THX 1138 was a good insight as to where we are heading. I saw the writing on the wall decades ago. Back then of course people would laugh at us if anyone mentioned the things that are happening today would be possible. Well, now we are witnessing it first hand and it’s going to get much worse before it gets better.

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          OriginalSteve

          All will be beer and skittles in vaccinated land…until about 6 months later infections start to rise “inexplicably”.

          Im going to get my bulldozer licence…will need it to dig big pits….

          And the un-vaxxed will become prized having natural immunity and able to do stuff.

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            Tel

            That’s not what is happening in Israel, they are getting a lot of infections but not many deaths. The mRNA has not prevented transmission but at least fewer people are dying. That said, the strains are getting less lethal of their own accord, which was always expected to happen.

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        WendyB

        If you live in France you can’t go into the shops without a covid passport.

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          shannon

          Probably will come to pass in the short term Wendy…..but people will only take so much.
          Maybe a twist will be the transport of food being withheld from the large city populations.??…what then.

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            Analitik

            It’s already being openly ignored and the police are only making token efforts to enforce the passport checking

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      mobihci

      really they only need to stop one group of delivery trucks to be effective, and they are the ones that deliver toilet paper to the supermarkets!

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        Analitik

        They should block road and rail transport to WA to help them with their isolating.

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          WendyB

          Gee thanks. Many of us here in WA think McGowan is a dictator.

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            Analitik

            But more consider him a hero just as many Victorians somehow still support Red Dan. I’m mystified that Jo falls into both of those camps.

            My comment is to address the smug attitude of some vocal Western Australians here who boast of how well the WA quarantining has been and how the eastern states are deficient. I apologize to you if you don’t hold that opinion.

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            GD

            Many of us here in WA think McGowan is a dictator.

            Not enough of you, obviously.

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    Penguinite

    “By all means, let people choose to get vaccinated, but don’t force it.” Hope you’ve bulked up on antivirals Scomo because their day is coming!

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    Dean Gardiner

    The current Israel data shows that the Vaccine is essentially useless.

    Israel recorded 8,698 cases a few days ago, the same as they did during their first wave pre vaccine. They have almost 60,000 active patients. Remember that around 10% of their population have already had Covid so would already have acquired immunity as well as / in spite of vaccination. Remember they are around one third our population and we have close to zero acquired immunity.

    Over 90% of people over 50 have been fully vaccinated. Over 50% of people over 60 have had a third booster. They have rolled out the third booster to around 1.1 million people over the last few weeks, so the vaccine should be at peak effectiveness.

    The infection rates for people under 60 per 100,000 people are as follows:
    Vaccinated – 16.8
    Partial vaccinated – 15.3
    Unvaccinated – 19.7

    The vaccines do appear to be slightly more effective at controlling spread in people over 60, but the unvaccinated are so few it no longer counts as a control group. Also we have to assume that anyone over 60 who did not get the vaccine were unable due to pre existing conditions and much more likely to have symptoms and complications if they catch Covid. The number of unvaccinated over 60 cases are quite small, out of the 60,00 active cases there are 6580 vaccinated and 995 unvaccinated.

    Low death count is definitely one of the highlights, but it is a bit difficult to determine if this is due to vaccine, better treatments or less lethal nature of Delta strain. Their overall case fatality rate is down to 0.3% compared to over 3% during the Alpha peak.

    Death ratio was 58.3% vaccinated to 41.7% unvaccinated and partially vaccinated. Unfortunately they don’t break down deaths by both age and vaccination status. But based on those numbers it looks like the unvaccinated have a higher death rate in the over 60 age group. But once again it is important to remember that over 60 unvacinated are likely to be very fragile to begin with.

    There are very few severely ill under sixty years old. In the over 60 age bracket the vaccines do seem to make a difference. In the over 60 per 100,000:

    Vaccinated – 20.7
    Partial Vaccinated – 45.2
    Unvaccinated – 171.5

    So if the only aim is to minimise hospitalisations then vaccinating over 60 years old is justified. However under 60 it does not seem to make much difference for either infections or hospitalisations.

    Either way it certainly does not get us to herd immunity and out of lockdown.

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      TdeF

      There is a lot of very good news here. Thanks.

      Also herd immunity, in my opinion, was a retrospective and wrong explanation for why viruses like the Spanish flu stopped. They never stopped. But no one reported the arrival of the very infectious third wave because few died except the elderly and vulnerable with co-morbidities. This was the benign version which is with us today and for subtle variations of which many people are inoculated every year.

      Lockdown is the only way to protect huge numbers of people in a largely unvaccinated community and we have only had these vaccines a short time, since last November. Australia is miles behind. And the virus is mutating even now, which is affecting the value of some vaccines like Pfizer.

      When we have reached a high vaccination level, lockdown will no longer be used, unless an even more dangerous strain arrives as happened in the second wave of the Spanish flu, which killed twice as many people.

      This virus will not burn out so much as be replaced by a virus against which few will bother fighting and that mutation will dominate for another hundred years. All we can do is arm immune systems to minimize, deaths, not prevent them all.

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      David A

      Dean, this is a recently produced cases chart by age group.

      https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbsEOpuyEVR04rIxZJBfx_iV_NBM8zq8l8jA&usqp=CAU

      The current chart is worse, and the vaccinated make up more of the hospitalizations and deaths, even when percentages are accounted for. The case rise is so steep we will need additional time to know if the percentages hospitalized and dead, relative to cases, is much improved.

      There is no question vaccines reduce initial severe case load. ( Look at the long flat period in Israel of almost zero cases and zero deaths, which the media went wild over ) Yet there is no question that benefit, (the only benefit) wanes rapidly and the manifesting harms are very numerous and worrisome.

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    PeterS

    The authoritarian takeover of Australia

    This once happy and freedom-loving nation is being crushed by its pro-lockdown elites. It’s only to be expected when we have people in the ABC who are actually S.tan worshippers. See this clip for proof of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgH90u1QYaU&t=34s

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    • #
      tonyb

      Peter

      Australia generally gets a good press but that has changed recently as the country appears to want to emulate China

      “Daily Sceptic contributor Ramesh Thakur, Emeritus Professor at the Crawford School of Public Policy at the Australian National University, has an excellent piece about Australia’s descent into an authoritarian dystopia in the Japan Times. Here’s an extract:

      Australia has morphed from being the envy of the world last year for its incredible pandemic management to international incredulity at the brutality of its authoritarian measures to “crush and kill the virus”.

      In America, popular conservative TV host Tucker Carlson calls Australia a “COVID dictatorship”. With unconscious irony, the video clip was removed from YouTube. His colleague Laura Ingraham was incredulous at learning that soldiers and police helicopters were patrolling Sydney’s streets and skies to enforce the lockdown.”

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        RickWill

        Australia has morphed from being the envy of the world last year for its incredible pandemic management to international incredulity at the brutality of its authoritarian measures to “crush and kill the virus”.

        There is nothing different in Melbourne right now than from June through September in 2020 apart from people now rushing to get vaccinated. Doing exactly the same things that made Australia the envy of the world. Tight border controls and curfews.

        Last year, the only course open was to arrest the spread. This year vaccinations will reduce the death rate to something manageable if the controls fail. Melbourne hospitals have very few cases so far. Sydney is in a race. A positive aspect is that 50% of cases in NSW are aged under 30yo so it appears the vaccinations are reducing the infection rate in the older age groups already vaccinated. There is now pressure on to vaccinate down to 12yo.

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        • #
          GD

          There is now pressure on to vaccinate down to 12yo.

          That is dangerous and despicable. No one yet knows the short-term or long-term effects of these ‘vaccines’.

          While it may be reasonable to vaccinate the elderly and even the middle-aged, forcing this experimental injection on children who hopefully have at least seven more decades of living is absolutely reprehensible.

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          Tel

          If border controls were so tight, why did Melbourne have repeated quarantine debarkles right through 2020?

          Why did the Delta strain turn up in Sydney so quickly after it was around in other countries (particularly India)?

          You really seem to think that constantly repeating your story will erase the fact that Melbourne has had several times more COVID deaths than all of the rest of Australia combined.

          Melbourne was a complete failure, they should get no more federal funding and be left to think about the damage they have done to themselves. It would be a valuable learning experience.

          Eventually all of Australia is going to be facing massive inflation from the money printing, because there are no more federal funds. What has been taken away from our children’s future cannot be fully comprehended at this stage.

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          • #
            clarence.t

            Does anyone know how the PCR test tell the difference between the original strain and the Delta strain ?

            21

            • #
              Peter C

              it doesn’t. I think they do genome sequencing on the positive cases.

              00

            • #
              John PAK

              I very much doubt it can cos the PCR tests only for short sections of proteins and not SARS CoV-2.

              I sometimes wonder if they are making stuff up to further the society control narrative. Here in Au the Victorian Premier has gone “The Full Monty” and decreed that Melbourne folk need to wear masks while drinking in beer gardens. Okay, we know what he means but the idea of drinking beer through a mask is fun.

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          • #

            Tel, the delta strain got into Sydney from travelers. It only takes hours to get to Australia by plane.

            01

            • #
              Peter C

              Dear Professor,

              I think Tel is suggesting that our Quarantine is not very good.

              20

              • #
                Analitik

                Actually, Tel is describing the futility of quarantining as well as the continuing cost that will be borne by taxpayers for decades

                30

              • #
                Tel

                NT did successful quarantine.

                It can be done but requires suitable facilities (not hotels) and low numbers of people going through.

                10

          • #
            John PAK

            Why did Delta strain turn up? Why did the Melbourne lock-down lack effectiveness ? Why is the Sydney region lock-down doing likewise ?
            1). Just a random thought but could the virus be latent in healthy folk acquired earlier via something-else and activated later by a “factor X” that we have not even considered yet. I find the vision of the President of Victoriastan on the telly is quite nauseating but, seriously, have we proven the mode of transmissibility of what we have named COVID ? I doubt we have run though Koch’s Postulates. Let’s go back to basics of virology and dissect every aspect of patients’ health and in there we might discover the “long COVID” key.
            2). My theory of disease holds that we co-exist with hundreds of different microbes both on and inside our bodies but almost always they are not pathogenic and indeed are mostly part of a beneficial symbiosis. Look at the mother who sent off children’s masks for testing which came back covered in a wild assortment of bacteria but the children were fine. I reckon we are better off to know our potential enemy, establish latent defences and be able (if required) to mount a swift kill without a week of latency whilst the body mobilises immunoglobulins etc. Could it be that our entire Pasteurian theory of disease is wonky from the out-set ?
            At ScienceDirect I found reference to McCarville & Ayres 2018 “Disease tolerance: concept and mechanism”. Food for thought.
            The evidence suggests that most of us encounter SARS CoV-2 with negligible reaction. I know people in the UK who had all the symptoms but just stayed home for a fortnight. Another man tested PCR +ve and recovered with little more than a sore throat and a mild fever while his wife and babies remained -ve.
            I get this creeping sense that a huge number of human beings are what I call “healthy latents” but a problem arises when we PCR test a higher %-age of the population of (say) Sydney. We automatically register more positives cos we’re doing more testing. Had we looked earlier we’d have likewise discovered the latent virus. Kary Mullis once said, PCR will render a +ve test result if you persuade it to.
            Lastly, by now the virus must be in pet animals and wild-life. There’s no escape from this one. Optimise your natural immune response.

            20

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    Richard Ilfeld

    “herd immunity” my in fact be “herd survivability”; sufficient resistance to make covid a nuisance illness
    in healthy people, on the level of seasonal flu. There may or may be be annual shots as we guess at variants.

    Once this becomes obvious, tiny tyrants, not longer able to shout !covid! and be powerful, will go back to being
    homeowners assn. nags or some other form of minor pests again.

    Two longer term questions bother me; how will the countries that have been successful in keeping covid out reintegrate with the rest of the world? And what role did “gain of function” play in this mess and will the world do anything about it?

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    • #
      el gordo

      Integration should be easy to accomplish in Australia when the Trans Tasman Bubble is opens for business. All inbounds must quarantine in three star accommodation somewhere remote, like the Simpson Desert.

      Were Australian scientists working in the Wuhan Lab at the start of the outbreak?

      40

  • #
    Raving

    Plan B: A lot of Mississippians are trying to treat COVID with cow deworming meds.

    https://twitter.com/maddow/status/1428842090541223940?s=21

    02

    • #
      Raving

      Another source: Poison control calls spike as people take livestock dewormer to treat COVID-19

      https://www.wlox.com/app/2021/08/20/poison-control-calls-spike-people-take-livestock-dewormer-treat-covid-19/

      02

      • #
        Analitik

        Which is almost certainly due to people not adjusting the dose for the 700kg cow down to a 70kg person

        But the key takeaways from the report are

        No one has been hospitalized due to ingestion of the drug.
        85% of the callers had mild symptoms.

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        • #
          Raving

          Yep, that and a lot of people are trying it 😀

          20

        • #
          another ian

          By what I’ve seen (Oz, animal usage) the dose level where IVM causes symptoms is way beyond the dose rate needed.

          I’d guess that such problems might be more from poor understanding of available forms and how they are to be used.

          Forms of which I am aware –

          “Drench” being internal by mouth. Dose in ml/kg body weight similar across animals – e.g similar for sheep and humans

          BUT in some places “drench” is “saturate the skin” – what we know as “Pour Ons” and NOT for internal use due to extras that may be there to aid absorption.

          For applying to wool there is “Jetting” as an aqueous solution – may be usable as a change from bathing in ass’s milk but that would be your experiment

          “Injectable” which I’ve heard of but never used

          50

    • #
      WendyB

      Your “a lot” is incredibly misleading. Madcow says 70% of callers but just how many callers is that and over what period of time? Until you can answer that you are spreading misinformation.

      60

      • #
        Raving

        Yes, but is the person who tries it and then calls the poison control line because they fear OD is not going to leave statistical data elsewhere

        In this sense the information leads. What to make of it is something else

        Conversely, what percentage of calls to a poison control line involved people injecting themselves with bleach? Doubt there were many

        10

        • #
          Analitik

          Why didn’t you put the context in your original post rather than just the headline?

          By only doing that, your post supports the narrative against people seeking alternatives to “the jab” by painting them as ignorant

          30

          • #
            Raving

            Painting people as ignorant or informed is beside the point here. What impresses me is that many people are taking Ivermectin. That means the drug will be taken seriously

            00

  • #
    PeterS

    Herd immunity could be irrelevant when we have so many variants now popping up much faster than ever before. This is perhaps the reason why our governments are panicking and attempting to vaccinate as much of the population as possible including children and babies, ideally near 80+%. They are afraid the up and coming variants could be more serious so they want us to be prepared. Of course that’s a risk since the vaccines themselves might have longer term effects that would be just as serious if not more so. It’s a race where the track in front of us is unknown and potentially has a cliff or a brick wall on the way. Time will tell. For now I’ll sit on side lines and watch the race. I refuse to take any vaccine until they have been proven to be reasonably safe like all past vaccines that have undergone far more strict tests and trials on humans before being released to the public. Of course, it depends on whether the race is real or not. I am still of the opinion the pandemic is mild compared to many previous ones so the hysteria displayed by our governments is way out of proportion. That points to another far more serious issue that’s better left for another thread.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Children cut though the theory of herd immunity. Often unsymptomatic, not wearing masks, oblivious to social distancing and making a beeline for elderly relatives, children have always been the biggest vector for transmission family to family and to the most vulnerable older people. It is one of the many reasons herd immunity is a wild fantasy which seems only remotely plausible because it is. It was the commonly accepted explanation for the demise of every plague, but it is not true.

      And children often accompany immune adults on their annual pilgrimages overseas, bringing back the very latest versions of the flu. I used to get it at the start of every single school term when my children met these sick kids, freshly back from exotic locations with low level exotic flus which rapidly spread. Only getting an annual inoculation with the latest 3 or 4 variants stopped the predictable annual misery.

      The proof is in the fact that no one in Australia has died from the flu this year. And the flu shots were a waste of time.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Herd immunity as I tried to point out is not relevant to the discussion and is more of a diversion. The real issue is the fact that as you say with the example of the flu, variants can and do make herd immunity a non sequitur. In that regard it’s pointless as you imply that we even are discussing herd immunity. What it does mean though is our “health officials” will now need to do the same as what they are already doing with the flu shots; generate new vaccines each and every year form now on. In fact they are already talking about a combined shot of flu and COVID-19 vaccines.

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      • #
        GD

        The proof is in the fact that no one in Australia has died from the flu this year.

        Perhaps that’s because the PCR tests don’t differentiate between the flu and covid.

        So all ‘positive’ tests are labeled covid.

        30

      • #
        Peter C

        Only getting an annual inoculation with the latest 3 or 4 variants stopped the predictable annual misery.

        Surprisingly I don’t think I have ever had Influenza! I usually get a severe cold in Autumn most years, which is miserable and lasts 3 weeks but I don’t think it is Flu because no fever, muscle aches etc.

        I have never been tested so I cannot be sure.

        10

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  • #
    Raving

    No longer experimental. Expect a stampede of vaccine mandates to follow

    13

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Who? Who won’t wear the ribbon?

    Kramer refuses to wear AIDS ribbon

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3iV8X8ubGCc

    h/t: instapundit

    20

    • #
      PeterS

      I can see the day when those who refuse to be vaccinated will be treated like criminals. I say bring it on. Let’s see what happens next.

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      • #
        el gordo

        Highly unlikely in Australia, we have human rights. The problem is that certain sections of our society need to be surrounded by a ring of steel, so that the majority can be liberated from lockdown.

        011

        • #
          Analitik

          The major urban areas where there is international travel will need to be surrounded by your “ring of steel” and within those areas are the majority

          40

        • #
          WendyB

          Human rights? Like freedom of speech? Nope. Freedom of assembly? Nope.

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        • #
          PeterS

          Yes we have human rights but our governments don’t have to follow them. If you truly believe they do have to abide by them then you are more naive than I thought.

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          • #
            Tilba Tilba

            Yes we have human rights but our governments don’t have to follow them.

            The state supreme courts and the High Court of Australia have a long history of adjudicating on human rights issues – and in general defend them. The common law is also a very strong protector, as is the fact that governments have to face electors on a regular basis. We are also solid signatories to a range of International laws, treaties, and covenants.

            There are a lot of things that could be better in Australia – but lack of human-rights protection isn’t high on that list for me.

            014

        • #
          PeterS

          I also have the right to walk down my street but that doesn’t mean someone can’t drive by and shoot me. You follow?

          50

      • #
        el gordo

        Analitik there is no more international travel, except for the rich and fatuous.

        Wendy we have freedom of speech right here.

        Peter, a ring of steel needs to be put in place around those poorly behaving red spots, they are super spreaders and need to be contained. Curfew breakers might incur a jail sentence. The authorities are loathe to tell the electorate what we already know, because it will open a can of worms.

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        • #
          Analitik

          Get your head around the fact that business travel still exists, aircrew need rests between flights and ship crew need to interact for loading/unloading plus need shore leave.

          50

        • #
          Serp

          loth, or loath; definitely not loathe

          20

      • #
        GD

        The Mark of the Beast: Revelation 13.

        00

  • #
    William Astley

    This is how to defeat covid. Two treatments of over the counter drug store items, for covid risk people.

    5000 IU/day of Vit D/day plus 17 mg Zinc (10,000 UI/day has been shown in studies to have zero side effects, 17 mg of Zinc is the amount in a over the counter multi Vitamins) & Covid Killing Non Invasive Nasal Spray.

    So everyone travelling on a ‘cruise’ or trying to stop a covid outbreak, would use the nasal spray twice a day and take the Vit D plus zinc once per day… Until the cruise ie finished and/or outbreak finished. That would make those taking the covid killing/stopping… two independent levels of protection from spreading or getting infected with covid…. ….in addition to the protection from the vaccines.

    This is a summary of the covid research that supports this assertion. …Covid Enters the Body Via Nose Cells

    As the link below explains, the Nose cells have the highest concentration in the body of the two molecules, that covid must attach to, to replicate.

    Covid replicates attached to these two molecules to replicate. After replication covid and then enters the body … where other parts of this designed virus cause other cells in our body to malfunction and hurt us.

    The point covid must replicate using these cells … And then the covid virus… enter the body where other molecules on the covid virus (this is a designer killer virus) to hurt us. Covid must replicate to hurt us internally and must replicate to get into the respirator droplets… which is the means which covid travels to infect other people.

    An Israel manufactured, non-invasive nasal spray stops (provides a mechanical barrier) covid from entering the nose cells and also chemical binds to the covid virus, destroying covid’s ability to infect.

    The non-invasive nose spread does not enter the body and hence could be sold over the counter at drug stores. Current cost is $22 a bottle, but that could be greatly reduced (say $10 bottle).

    Regardless, of whether a person is or is not vaccinated. Every person that has covid symptoms should use the nose spray and start taking 5000 IU/day, to stop covid from generating respirator drops with covid in them.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200423130420.htm

    Key nose cells identified as likely COVID-19 virus entry points
    “Two specific nose cell types have been identified as likely initial infection points for COVID-19 coronavirus. Scientists discovered that goblet and ciliated cells in the nose have high levels of the entry proteins that the COVID-19 virus uses to get into our cells, which could help explain the high rate of transmission. The study with Human Cell Atlas Lung Biological Network found cells in the eye and some other organs also contain the viral-entry proteins.”

    https://www.jpost.com/health-science/anti-viral-nasal-spray-effective-against-covid-19-673481

    An anti-viral nasal spray called Enovid that was developed in Canada and tested in the UK can reduce the viral loads in confirmed COVID-19 cases by 95% in 24 hours and 99% in 72 hours, a press release said on Sunday.

    The Israeli-manufactured spray can be used up to five times a day after coming in contact with viruses, according to the release. It’s suitable for children as young as 12 years old, and the Ministry of Health approved it in January this year. It will go on sale in the coming week.

    “The spray we developed has been proven not only as a virus blocker that causes Covid-19 but also as a killer,” Dr. Gili Regev, CEO and founder of Snotize (the company that developed the spray) said.
    https://itrade.gov.il/singapore/2021/07/27/sanotize-rolls-out-anti-covid-nasal-spray/

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    • #
      Annie

      Snotize?! Freudian slip?

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    • #
      William Astley

      This Covid killing/stopping nasal spray… could be available at a drugstore near you.

      I see that Covid Nasal Spray research group has sold the manufacturing rights for the Covid Nasal spray to a large Indian Paramedical company that has worldwide distribution and production, Glenmark Pharmaceuticals.

      Covid Nasal spray Phase 3 trials have been done in the UK and were successful. The covid Nasal spray product has been granted a license to be used in EU countries, because of covid. A phase 3 trial is underway in Canada and in India.

      https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210802005236/en/SaNOtize-inks-agreement-with-Indian-biotech-Glenmark-to-commercialize-Nitric-Oxide-Nasal-Spray-for-COVID-19-treatment-in-India-and-other-Asian-markets

      VANCOUVER, British Columbia & MUMBAI, India–(BUSINESS WIRE)–SaNOtize Research and Development Corp. and Indian company, Glenmark Pharmaceuticals, a research-led, global integrated pharmaceutical company, today announced an exclusive long-term strategic partnership to manufacture, market and distribute SaNOtize’s breakthrough Nitric Oxide Nasal Spray (NONS) for COVID-19 treatment, in India and other Asian markets including Singapore, Malaysia Hong Kong, Taiwan, Nepal, Brunei, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Timor-Leste and Vietnam.

      NONS is one of the few novel therapeutic treatments, outside of expensive monoclonal antibodies, that is proven to reduce SARS-CoV-2 viral load in humans.2 NONS has already received a CE mark in Europe, which is the equivalent of marketing authorization as a Medical Device (the CE mark confirms that the medical device meets certain “essential requirements” of the European General Medical Devices Directive and is safe for the intended purpose). By virtue of the CE mark, SaNOtize has permission to launch NONS in the EU.

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      • #
        Serp

        I doubt Australia’s TGA will allow it to “be available at a drugstore near you.”

        60

        • #
          William Astley

          Crises are the mother of change. Change happens because in this case there is no viable alternative.

          The Nasal spray is non-evasive and hence can be used on young children. This is not a vaccine. The Nasal spray is killing/stop covid using advanced chemistry, in the nose.

          The nasal spray does not enter the patient’s blood stream. It kills and stops covid from replicating by latching to the virus and providing a mechanical barrier that the covid cannot breach. Covid must replicate to spread and to damage our bodies.

          Covid cannot evolve to get around the nasal spray.

          The Indian company that has rights to produce the covid killing/stopping Nasal spray is now setting up production to ship product in Q4, 2021.

          This is a summary of the UK and Canadian study results.

          https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/sanotize-nasal-spray-reduces-covid-19-viral-load-uk-clinical-trail/

          Patients treated with SaNOtize’s spray saw an average viral log reduction of 1.362 in the first 24 hours, which corresponds to a decline of around 95%. Within 72 hours the viral load plummeted by more than 99%. No adverse events were recorded in the UK trial nor in earlier Canadian trials that saw over 7,000 patients testing the self-administered treatment.

          “I expect this to be a major advance in the global battle against the devastating human impacts of the Covid-19 pandemic,” said consultant medical virologist and chief investigator of the NHS trial Dr Stephen Winchester.

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  • #
    el gordo

    ‘As Delta spreads and hopes for herd immunity fade, economies taking a zero-tolerance approach face questions over whether they can ever exit their bubbles.

    ‘With no clear end in sight to quarantines and lockdowns, some say it is time to embrace new ways of thinking about the pandemic’s toll and prioritise mental health.’ (SCMP)

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    • #
      Analitik

      Even the federal government has acknowledge this and their latest messaging is “living with CoViD”. This puts them at odds with “zero community transmission” state premiers like Red Dan and Iron Mark.

      100

      • #
        el gordo

        The Premiers are caught between a rock and a hard place, would they be reelected if they recanted on previous efforts to reach zero?

        04

        • #
          PeterS

          Really? Previous efforts? WA and Victoria still are aiming for zero cases. Also, from where I sit they all have free reign to keep destroying our once great nation with extended lockdowns and border closures that we all know don’t work. That to me is a form of elitism one would only find in a dictatorship. To make them work one would need to build a wall around each city guarded with armed military personnel. much like the Berlin wall. Of course that will never happen, at least I hope not. So, they all deserve to lose the next election anyway. Problem of course we will only get the same type of politicians to replace them.

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  • #
    Phillip Charles Sweeney

    Last week 12,000 year 12 schoolgirls in NSW were hurded into a stadium (aka Concentration Camp) without parental consent and “vaccinated” against ALL FUTURE PREGNANCIES with EXPERIMENTAL ‘vaccines’ that have never need tested on animals.

    10,000s of women in the UK are complaining about period problems after being “jabbed”. How many of these will be able to have children?

    This is what is happening in Australia in 2021 as politicians are driven by fear and a corrupt Main Stream Media.

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  • #
    RickWill

    Had my second AstraZeneca jab yesterday. Absolutely no side effects so far this time.

    Will be bullet proof in 12 days.

    Apparently the AstraZeneca is more durable:
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15605950/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-lifetime-protection/

    Scientists from Oxford and Switzerland, writing in journal Nature, say T-cell protection is a “key feature” of adenovirus vaccines like the Oxford and J&J jabs.

    This could be why the UK is doing better than Israel.

    I expected to see cases just keep rising in the UK given the level of crowds at football matches but they have levelled around 30k/day.

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    • #
      PeterS

      I hope it all goes well for you. I really do. For myself I will wait for Novavax to be made available later this year before I even consider getting vaccinated because it’s much closer to the more traditional type of vaccine. Meanwhile, on the balance of probabilities I see absolutely no need to take a COVID-19 vaccine. I have more chance of getting pneumonia, which have so far this year have lead to over 500 deaths.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        The big question that politicians don’t want us to ask concerns the pre-covid rate of death on similar cruises.

        Another interesting data set would be the death rate for the same time period in a home based group in normal times.

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    • #
      mobihci

      the UK is just in a more delayed state re the figures due to the fact that the vaccine rollout was slower. take a look here-

      https://www.coronaheadsup.com/science/vaccine-breakthrough/uk-vaccine-breakthrough-rate-for-delta-infections-still-increasing/

      if you scroll down, they present the change in breakthrough cases of delta over the past few months. it has gone from 3% to now 19%. take note of the cases v deaths. there are now more deaths in vaccinated cases than unvaccinated.

      from the ZOE app, overall the breakthrough rate is now closer to 45% –

      https://www.coronaheadsup.com/coronavirus/uk-its-an-epidemic-of-the-partially-vaccinated/

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      • #
        mobihci

        oh, i should also state that the percentage of deaths from cases is closer to 60% higher for unvaccinated than vaccinated, but looking at previous reports from the UK government (the blue links on that site), this number is dropping fast.

        40

      • #
        tonyb

        mobihci

        In the UK more people are vaccinated than unvaccinated and the age profile is much older including those first vaccinated in January who are well beyond the average life expectancy, so you would expect more deaths in this grouping.

        10

        • #
          mobihci

          well this is the problem with all figures around covid, there are many factors to consider.

          eg if you have a look here https://www.coronaheadsup.com/science/vaccine-breakthrough/uk-vaccine-breakthrough-rate-for-delta-infections-still-increasing/ and click on the the lastest PHE report you can see the variants they are tracking. on p16, they show

          -Table 4. Attendance to emergency care and deaths of sequenced and genotyped cases in England (1 February 2021 to
          15 August 2021)

          there is a list of variants and their cases etc they break this down to age groups 50

          then there is p22, they show

          -Table 5. Attendance to emergency care and deaths of sequenced and genotyped Delta cases in England by vaccination status
          (1 February 2021 to 15 August 2021)

          the comparison between each successive report allows to see the trend. the trend does not seem to be there for deaths by age, just deaths by vaccination status. there are more people dying now that are vaccinated than unvaccinated, and the percentage is coming closer to being in favour of being unvaccinated probably because of natural immunity.

          50

    • #
      Forrest Gardener

      RickWill, not many are claiming that double injection makes people bulletproof.

      There is a fair amount of evidence that not only can double injected people catch the virus, but they can pass it on.

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    • #
      Analitik

      Had my second AstraZeneca jab yesterday. Absolutely no side effects so far this time.

      Will be bullet proof in 12 days

      Not according to this study on the longer term vaccinated

      When we are thinking about who should be prioritised for booster doses our data suggests that those vaccinated earliest, particularly with the Astra Zeneca vaccine, are likely to now have the lowest antibody levels.

      https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2021/jul/vaccine-antibody-levels-start-wane-around-2-3-months

      All the best but be realistic

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      • #
        RickWill

        The AstraZeneca provides a training camp for T-cell response to Covid19. The antibodies wear off but the training remains. The effectiveness of AstraZeneca is more durable than Pfizer and Moderna:
        https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.17.21259027v1.full-text

        Bullet proof – No wonder the Premier League crowds are full to the rafters and yet UK is only recording about 100 deaths per day. Probably why UK has stabilised even with mass spreader events while Israel cases have not yet levelled out post lockdown.

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        • #
          Forrest Gardener

          I scanned through the article in your link. Which part are you relying on for your bullet proof assertion?

          10

          • #
            Analitik

            Too bad that all the studies show that the AstraZenica vaccine is the least effective for preventing infection by Delta vs the original. This real world experience blows the suggested t-cell response from the laboratory study out of the water.

            Your posting reminds me of a childhood cartoon where the hero would proclaim “My wings are like a shield of steel” and is about as credible

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    • #
      GD

      Will be bullet proof in 12 days

      No, you won’t.

      Astra Zeneca doesn’t prevent you from contracting Covid in the future.

      40

    • #
      Analitik

      I hope the clotting issue doesn’t affect you. I really hope it doesn’t affect any of the people that I know who have taken the AZ “jab”. Nevertheless, the possibility is real and Norway is starting to compensate those who have suffered from it, before this vaccine was withdrawn.

      At least three claims over serious side effects of Oxford-made vaccine AstraZeneca have been upheld in Norway, resulting in financial compensation

      In total, 77 compensation claims related to side effects of Covid vaccines have been received in Norway. Over 50 of those concern AstraZeneca, while there are also complaints about Pfizer and Moderna shots. Eight of the 77 applications involve fatal cases.

      https://www.rt.com/news/528174-norway-astrazeneca-vaccine-compensations/

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    • #
      David A

      Did you get tested for natural immunity first? If not, why not?

      00

  • #
    Hanrahan

    The family of the deceased lady is trying to raise $30,000 to cover the costs……

    Where does personal responsibility start? Why are they on a cruise with no emergency savings? Who takes a holiday without travel insurance? OK, I did when I was young, healthy and naive. Not now.

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  • #
    another ian

    FWIW

    “Vaccinated Australian Minister Develops Bell’s Palsy on Live Televised COVID-19 Press Conference”

    https://welovetrump.com/2021/08/19/vaccinated-australian-minister-develops-bells-palsy-on-live-televised-covid-19-press-conference/

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  • #
    Raving

    Posted here because it seems to signal surrender. Bad decision. Unecessary. You really dont want Delta to blow up, out of control with NSW current vaccination rate :'(

    Ms Berejiklian urged people in NSW not to become “fixated” on, or “panic” about, the surging case numbers.

    “We accept that Delta is here, we accept heading to zero across the nation, especially once you open up and live freely will be an impossible task,” she said.

    “If NSW has had to go down this journey the earliest because of the size of our state because of the way the outbreak has grown in NSW, so be it.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-21/nsw-records-825-covid-cases-three-deaths/100396208

    You should be fixated on the surging case numbers because in a month’s time they will clog up your health care system. A couple of weeks for cases to build and then a couple more weeks to come to roost in hospitals

    05

    • #
      Analitik

      It’s called having to face reality. I just hope she has someone advising her who takes antivirals into consideration and that she listens to them.

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      • #
        Raving

        I was thinking maybe 1,500 cases a day in NSW but you are already half way there!. It could get really bad. you have more vaxxed now than we did last time but this is Delta. … 3k cases a day at its peak? Ugh

        The 7 day rolling average is misleading. You are headed for the stars
        Please. You don’t want to give up

        https://tinyurl.com/ydzv6nb4

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      • #
        Raving

        66% of the entire population of BC is fully vaxxed. Ages 0 through 100+ .. one of the highest rates in the world

        Here is how they are responding to the4th ‘let it rip’ Delta wave. The case numbers have juststarted rising.
        (Remember you have barely had asingle wave yet! Great lockdown and control)

        https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/nurses-quitting-kamloops-interior-health-1.6148410

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        • #
          RickWill

          Those situations are good for casual medical staff. They can make a bundle when things are bad. Takes a certain mindset not to get stressed watching people fighting to breathe while working long hours trying to avoid getting infected as well. But pay is good.

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      • #
        Raving

        It’s called having to face reality

        Yes and that now means the infection in NSW is going to get real.

        No longer an abstract disease which one hears about but never sees. Now you will start feeling it, if only indirectly.

        Thr lockdowns won’t be arbitrary. A lot of people will become genuinely afraid. There won’t be patience for protesters. No need for the police to issue tickets either

        People won’t care about vaccine hesitancy. The fights will be for who gets priority to be vaccinated first

        The phoney epidemic Is over. The real one is just starting

        It ain’t so bad but it’s hardly nothing

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      • #
        Vicki Sanderson

        Of course she won’t Analitik.

        Having been in a very good place for a very long time, we are now going to be in panic land. The rest of the world is either living with the virus, suggesting booster shots, or preparing to mount a new, and overdue attack with anti-virals.

        Us? We are about to experience a massive authoritarian dystopia.

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    • #
      RickWill

      The infection rate in NSW is running around 1.3 with a period to contagious infection of 4 days. The number of cases double around every 11 days. I predicted last week that daily cases would reach 1500 in NSW by the end of August. Today it is 832cases/day.

      The somewhat good news is that half of the cases are people under 30yo. That implies that the older people, who got the jab early, are now largely protected and not showing symptoms.

      The virus has spread to regional areas with large numbers of first Australians and those towns have poor or no medical facilities. There was a major spreader event where 500 people attended a funeral. They came from hundreds of miles to attend and are now spreading the virus through remote towns.

      There already is a rush for vaccines. The government has acquired unused Phizer stock from Poland. Before the current breakout, Australia allowed France to get stock that was originally earmarked for Australia. Australia has vaccinated slower than most other countries because there was no issue until this month. Getting vaccinated is one of the reasons for leaving your property.

      I agree that the tone of people changes on Covid when they have been exposed to it. My son was a physician in a Covid ward in Melbourne during the peak last year and he was signing the death certificates. One of the communities of a particular faith that was hard hit last year has been ahead of the government in closing schools and setting up testing and vaccination facilities in school grounds. Countries that have had a bad experience with Covid have rushed for vaccinations. Very few Australians have had any contact with Covid but it is certainly changing in some locations now.

      I have two friends in the USA who voted for Trump in 2016. Neither voted for him in 2020. One was ruined financially by the trade war with China and the other blamed Trump for the mixed messaging on Covid – he did not get to see his aged parents for most of 2020. That is the only direct information I have on the Presidential election. I really wonder how much Covid affected Trump’s vote?

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        Analitik

        Trump’s initial downplaying of the seriousness of CoViD almost certainly cost him a lot in the 2020 election. Posturing is his biggest weakness and the Democrats used that statement against him with great effectiveness.

        Fraud was still needed to ultimately tip the scales but the downplaying did not help.

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    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    What a joke on us. Vaxxines don’t work, masks are next to useless but we’re putting up with this non-science. What’s the payoff folks?????

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    RightOverLabour

    Good video on the vaccine Dr Ryan Coke Patholgist https://www.bitchute.com/video/wGKbPz19ju3V/

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      Brenda Spence

      Excellent but worrying. He talks about the vaccines affecting the B cells of the immune system thus removing the body’s ability to attack microbes.

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    roman

    What’s slightly missed is that a cruise ship is not a random sample. It’s a sample of mostly old people. If there were 3000 on board then the death rate is 0.03%. Not too bad, and nothing to sneeze at really..

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    I haven’t read the comments, so it’s entirely possible someone has already written what I will write here:

    The key point to be highlighted in this news is that you can’t avoid the virus; you must rather cure the disease when it hits. Medicine, not prevention. Medicine, not prevention. Medicine, not prevention.

    Which of course immediately reveals the emptiness of demanding everyone get vaccinated. The whole civilized world should have had enough experience with these smallest of invading enemies of the body, to already know this.

    I used — simply — echinacea with goldenseal, in large continuing dosing, to thwart its invasion of my body, back before the idea of lockdowns and universal prevention were a gleam in anyone’s eyes (other than Fauci’s and all the other incompetent, dogmatic Believers in Vaccination). I took it AS A MEDICINE, and it kept the virus from making me actually sick. I did it twice, once over a full week, and second time 2 months later (in late March 2020) in just 2 days. Others have reported using other MEDICINES, with similar easy times; the covid19 is no worse than any other common virus, WHEN ATTACKED QUICKLY, without waiting for days or weeks to “see how it goes”.

    But enough. Those who are instituting ever more draconian “prevention” measures are not incompetent; they know the virus is weak, and harmless for almost everyone under 80 years old. They are, instead, criminals, and hence, as “government”, petty (blatantly so) tyrants.

    We need to figure out how to apply the proper MEDICINE to the political criminality (which our own stupidity has ensconced), first and foremost. A new virus is not the problem at all. Prevention failed long ago, but there is always a medicine at hand, when enough people are self-aware enough to avail themselves of it.

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      Serp

      Obvious isn’t it that a hidden agenda is being followed. Hence the formation of the Morrison’s “national cabinet” so that no state deviates from the plan.

      Was there ever a time that government was honest with the people it purports to represent? The UK nuclear tests during the 1950s was an outstanding example of the concealment of blatant lies and they’d have got away with it except that Hedley Marston had instituted a secret network of fallout sampling stations.

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    Michael

    Yes, it is what living with the virus looks like. People get sick on cruise ships all the time and it can spread suddenly. We used to live with this before 2020. Why can nobody get sick or die from this new (manufactured) disease at the expense of all other morbitities or mortalities?

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    MrV

    I was told on a short 4 day cruise out of Miami, that the longer the cruise the higher the amount of grey hair. So the question is amongst a self-selecting population of old (and often unwell) people, how many will pass away on the cruise itself (even pre-covid)?

    Indeed friends of our family who were nearing end of life, but wanted to see a few things before they die have partaken in such cruises. This is why these ships basically have hospital and morgue facilities.
    Some stats I saw indicate pre-covid there were around 3-4 deaths in a typical week in the cruise industry.
    So is this death of a 77yr old out of the ordinary?

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    CHRIS

    Just be grateful that the Delta strain was not the original one that emerged in 2019. Can you imagine what it would have been like, with Delta running rampant and no vaccines? Not as bad as the Spanish Flu of the 1920s, but pretty close.

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      Analitik

      What are you basing your claim about Delta on, Chris? The mortality rate is nothing like that of the Spanish Flu. Not remotely

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    Dwayne

    Maybe it is time to stop hiding under the bed for a virus that has a worldwide CFR of 2%? If we apply what we know about viruses the IFR is probably .2%, and the equates to a bad flu season. Nope, it isn’t the flu, but it isn’t the black death either. Children are being treated like plague carriers, and they are the least affected by the virus. In Canada we have lost 15 children (under 19s), co-morbidities unknown but suspected in numerous cases, out of 282,845 “cases”. That makes the CFR for people under the age of 19 .000053%. Considering the IFR is always lower, the numbers are miniscule in the extreme. Oh heavens, what shall we do? The flu kills more kids than covid, and yet people are demanding they mask up and sit behind plastic, and other idiotic measures. I guess the teachers are morbidly afraid of catching “it” from the kids? Our entire public health system has failed us with death porn reporting and fear mongering. I blame China for the covid theater they carried out at the beginning of this fiasco. Bleaching entire cities and locking up 10s of millions of people is something that commies can do. But apparently our idiots in charge thought emulating them is good. And way too many sheep followed along, afraid to die, afraid to live.

    Covid killed the very old and infirmed, mainly because we did nothing to protect them initially. It continues to kill people because viruses can do that, no matter what we do to try and protect ourselves.

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    Catherine

    This made me sick when I read it.
    6:39 pm August 21, 2021
    HIGHLIGHT
    Big move could stop Covid spread
    Widely vaccinating children and teenagers could be a key to stopping the spread of Covid, according to one expert.

    An exclusive report in The Australian today reveals University of Melbourne modelling suggests vaccinating three million young people could halve the spread of Covid once state borders open back up.

    The research, led by ­epidemiologist Tony Blakely, estimates that “vaccinating children from the age of five and up(??? some clinical trials just started and finish in 2023!!!!!) would halve the infection rate that Australia is likely to see once interstate borders are opened.”

    At present, only those aged 16 and over are eligible to be vaccinated.

    “I think the adult vaccination is going extremely well and I don’t see why, if we really wanted to, we couldn’t double vaccinate all school kids by Christmas,” Professor Blakely told the Australian.
    “We might even be able to get a single shot into all primary school kids as well.” (????)

    The report comes as Australia today recorded its highest Covid case numbers since the pandemic began.”

    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04796896?cond=Covid-19&age=0&draw=4&rank=28
    Actual Study Start Date : March 15, 2021
    Estimated Primary Completion Date : June 12, 2023
    Estimated Study Completion Date : June 12, 2023

    https://www.biznews.com/health/2021/08/10/ivermectin-dr-rapiti
    https://www.biznews.com/mailbox/2021/08/18/ivermectin-mdladla
    https://www.biznews.com/thought-leaders/2021/05/12/mailbox-ivermectin
    Ivermectin: “Its wide-spread use should dampen waves of disease while vaccines can use this time to prove themselves with long term safety and efficiency.”

    https://covid19criticalcare.com/

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fda-begging-not-horse-dewormer-183315777.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
    https://www.walb.com/2021/08/17/we-have-let-it-go-doctors-say-ivermectin-will-not-help-treat-covid-19/ etc…

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      Serp

      Maybe Prof Blakely has been misreported or he was off his meds when espousing such rank zealotry; let’s hope “wiser heads prevail” although in the current climate of hysteria contrary views are largely unheard.

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      Analitik

      Whatever happened to “think of the children” ?

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        Serp

        According to the Blakely agenda these are the children who won’t be having children; if there was a problem of impending over population this could convert it into a dearth in a single generation. This is shaping up to be those interesting times of that chinese malediction.

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    PeterS

    Not sure if this has been posted before but this authoritative person on the matter exposes the truth. The bottom line is he is saying it’s all a pandemic of fear and nothing more, driven by censorship and lies by our politicians, health officials and MSM. This is exactly the same as what’s happening with the CAGW scam. Both very likely are driven by the same people with the same evil agenda.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFnwxGQUQNo

    The Associated Press recently ran a story they said debunked the dissenting Covid concerns of pathologist, Dr. Roger Hodkinson. In their article titled, “Pathologist falsely claims COVID-19 is a hoax, no worse than the flu,” they misrepresented several of Dr. Hodkinson’s statements. The also wrote specifically saying they were planning to debunk him, not understand what he meant. Dr Hodkinson is a medical specialist in pathology and graduate of Cambridge University, UK. He is a Fellow of the College of American Pathologists and the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada. He was previously the President of the Alberta Society of Laboratory Physicians, an Assistant Professor in the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Alberta, and CEO of a large community based medical laboratory with a full menu of testing for infectious disease and virology. He is currently the Chairman of an American biotechnology company active in DNA sequencing.
    https://evidencenotfear.com/dr-roger-hodkinson-interview-alison-morrow/

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      Simon B

      Of course they did Peter, that’s how cancel culture works. Character assassinate the actual scientists, deride their work and disseminate that vitriol thru different news outlets and then claim that as a ‘debunking’! It’s the same template used against reputable climatologists, meteorologists, marine biologists, etc who date question the cult.
      So the mere mention of the scientists na!e is then sneeringly dismissed as ridiculous, they’ve been debunked. All this by an army of paid trolls.
      I’ve always found the best counter is to provide the facts and ask them to interpret them for this wider audience they purport to represent.
      Continuation of the character assassination is usually the approach, but no answer is usually instructive too, as it shows it’s not about the facts, but the narrative they wish to push.
      Push back against one useful idiot at a time, it’s already working in the U.S. as their recent polls show that already 10% say they wouldn’t have chosen Biden if they’d thought he’d take their right away by deciding the future of their country by Executive Orders.

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        PeterS

        Yes, and the public in general who still don’t bother to do their own research will keep falling for all the lies and I dare say most people will do whatever they are told to do by officialdom no matter what. Free of choice is fast becoming a joke. For now it’s vaccinations. Eventually it will be the Mark of the Beast. As I said for a long time the easiest way the evil world rulers will achieve their nightmare scenario is due to enough people in the world actually begging for them to do it believing it’s for their own good. Such fools. It’s of course not the first time this has happened, the only difference this time it will be world-wide and centralised using modern technology. No nation will escape it stranglehold of the evil one and his cohorts.

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    Simon B

    Why is this surprising anyone? Are there actually deluded people who thought vaccines were a magic bullet? Are there actually people who didn’t know vaccines are used at the beginning of a winter – predominantly flu season – to ensure peak protection, because the effectiveness wears off? Could no common sense be employed to realise a new vaccine – for the at risk – is required every year because it’s effectiveness dissipates and new strains need to be guarded against?
    Are there seriously people in this country who are deluding themselves that these vaccines have been ‘approved’ by the TGA without the normal rigorous testing which is mandatory for use, for anything other than political purposes?
    Are there seriously people in this country who don’t know that the tinpot state overlords are making declarations of lockdown easing at the end of September because the warmer weather will achieve what they arrogantly declared they’d do weeks ago?
    Are there seriously people who can’t source and interpret simple data to learn that only 5.4% of active cases in this country are hospitalised? Only 2.26% of ALL cases since the start of this last year have died and that figure contains only 0.7% deaths to cases in a currently case obsessed NSW?
    Wake up Australia, this will not be eradicated by lockdowns, nor by political and trashmedia obsession with cases.
    Hospitalization and deaths are the indicators which matter – in a total context, not a sensationalised media tally!
    https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-case-numbers-and-statistics
    It’s here every day, spread this and ensure the hyperventilating politicians unelected advisers and sycophants in the trashmedia start focussing on the real numbers, or come January/ February 2022 the state demigods who now have control of Australia will declare April – September lockdown season with suspension of all services they choose due to the detection of the epsilon variant and slow uptake over summer of the booster.
    It’s insidious, but the solution is in the publics hands.

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      PeterS

      As has been discussed before a few times; it’s the madness of crowds resulting from mass delusion and deception. I watch it now as it’s growing bigger and bigger like some horror movie waiting for the end. I used to say I better get some more popcorn. The trouble is it’s no joke and I feel like escaping to some place but sadly there is no where to go apart perhaps on a remote island or mountain somewhere to be away from it all, at least until satellites and drones start tracking everyone. I think I will stay where I am and just keep watching with some amusement and some sadness. At some point though I do expect it will no amusement and all tears. I’m not looking forward to it but I am getting prepared for it as everyone with a eyes to see, ears to hear and a brain to think must be able to acknowledge where it is all going, at least in general.

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        Graeme No.3

        Peter:
        Remember the case of the chap in The Netherlands in 1938 who decided
        1. War was imminent in Europe
        2. The War would spread across the globe,
        3. This time the Germans would invade The Netherlands, which he didn’t want to endure.
        4. He decided to go to an obscure place, so obscure that no-one had heard of it.

        So when war broke out in Europe he was safely ensconced on a tropical island in the Pacific, a place called Guadacanal.

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    MarkMcD

    OK, I am late to this party but here’s a totally interesting source fo data. See how many exucses you can come up with for the figures.

    Influenza and pneumonia are a subset of respiratory diseases (J00-J99).

    There were 556 deaths due to influenza and pneumonia recorded between January and April 2021. All deaths in this category were due to pneumonia. <<<NOTE THIS!!!

    This is 184 deaths (24.9%) lower than the 2015-19 average, and 275 deaths (33.1%) lower than at the same point in 2020. <<<NOTE THIS!!!

    Influenza

    There has not been a death certified due to influenza since late July 2020.
    Pneumonia <<<NOTE THIS!!!

    The number of deaths due to pneumonia has been largely below average since late April 2020. <<<NOTE THIS!!!

    Between January and April 2021, deaths due to pneumonia were 130 (19.0%) below the 2015-19 average and 235 deaths (29.7%) below the same point in 2020.

    Source: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release#data-download

    No Flu deaths! NONE! NADA! ZILCH!

    Just how is that possible do you think?

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      Mark, as I’ve posted before on Influenza, it is remarkable but also predictable that we wiped it out. It’s textbook microbiology.

      The influenxa Ro (rate of spead) is 1.4, Covids Ro is 2.5 – 7 (or so). The incubation period of Influenza is a lot shorter than Covid. So the measures we took to stop covid spreading and coming in would be twice as much as we needed to stop the spread of influenza. Check the WA VirusWatch site. They usually do around 500 – 700 tests every week for influenza and have not found a single case since June last year.

      If there were cases of Influenza it would suggest something very wrong was happening. Something amiss.

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        PeterS

        If the flu has been wiped out then how come people are still being encouraged to take the flu vaccines?

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          Serp

          They’ve cupboards full of it, it’s all been paid for, waste not want not.

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          el gordo

          Once society gets back to normal, it’ll be business as usual.

          ‘Given the low number of laboratory-confirmed influenza notifications, low community ILI activity, and no hospitalisations due to influenza at sentinel hospital sites, it is likely there is minimal impact on society due to influenza in 2021 to date.’ (Fed Dept of Health)

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          Tom20

          Because you have been in lockdown.
          Isolated and separated not always a good thing
          For our immune system.
          Not food at all for our youngest.

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            Analitik

            The respiratory outbreaks that afflicted WA and NZ this winter are good indications that this is correct. Our immune systems were not evolved for a hyper sanitized environment

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          Flu vaccination is still a requirement to visit many aged care homes.

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          David A

          Flu “wiped out”
          Most likely a bridge to far. Some strains may be wiped out, some will survive. Given exponential disease growth they could be fully back in a year or two.

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        Ross

        As some other commentators have said – COVID should be given a Nobel prize for wiping out the flu! The same observations can made regarding the “fitness” of biotypes in crop diseases and fungicide resistance. Those biotypes that have better “fitness” will outperform the less fit types which can lead to resistant strains. That’s a bit simplified, but in essence what can happen in a lot of situations. The common flu virus is still there, just hiding away, lurking in the shadows. Waiting for its opportunity to return. The cynical part of my brain says that if we all just stay home when we’re sick and stop the PCR testing COVID might just go away.

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    el gordo

    This was bound to surface eventually.

    ‘Almost half of the Covid-19 cases detected in NSW’s Aboriginal population have been in southwest and western Sydney, as health experts cite grave concerns for the high-risk community.’ (Oz)

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    Analitik

    Just as our federal government has been forced to acknowledge that the vaccines will not lead to zero community CoViD cases, our GPs are finally getting some “official” notification that the gene therapy spike protein vaccines are not the panacea that they have been promoted.

    But what we also know is that they’re, at least modestly, reduced in terms of their ability to transmit, and have very significantly reduced chances of getting really sick, being hospitalised and dying.

    They still try to present lots of justification to continue mass vaccination, totally bypassing any analysis of Delta hospitalization rates and deaths for unvaccinated overall, and then come to this disgracefully ignorant/misleading conclusion for mutations

    Experts have in fact warned that dropping public health measures too soon, despite high vaccine coverage rates, could lead to further mutations of the virus.

    which ignores that the “vaccines”, being so leaky rather than sterilizing, end up forcing the mutations along a path for vaccine resistance rather than naturally attenuating while becoming more infectious.

    https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/how-are-covid-vaccines-faring-against-delta

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    Analitik

    New Zealand’s lockdowns are failing vs the Delta variant. Covid-19 response minister Chris Hipkins said

    “It does mean that all of our existing protections… start to look less adequate and less robust,” he said, adding that it raises “some pretty big questions about what the long-term future of our plans are”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58297895

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    Philip

    And yet, despite all this data the vaccines are leaky and don’t stop the spread, Gladys has taken it upon herself to decide that once we reach 70% vac rate, we’re going to unleash the virus on you, full blast.

    We are run by simpleton fools. It’s very depressing.

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      Analitik

      It was inevitable that she would have to face up to reopening the economy and public life. The only hope is that somehow their health department properly evaluates anti-virals before this occurs

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      Environment Skeptic

      The most marvelous mistake in my opinion is to actually suppose a virus is stopped by leaky vax’s and alleged border closures.

      Cats have perfected avoiding being deposited back into a bag for a long long time.

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    Yonason

    Inoculation (they are NOT “vaccines”) safety …

    Total adverse events (as of the article posting) from American and European event reporting…

    Pfizer-BioNTech: 4,293 deaths and 144,607 injuries
    Moderna: 2,094 deaths and 15,979 injuries
    AstraZeneca: 1,360 deaths and 169,386 injuries
    Johnson & Johnson (Janssen): 19 deaths and 246 injuries

    https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/05/05/vaers-data-released-today-showed-118902-reports-of-adverse-events-following-covid-vaccines/

    Making the world more profitable for big pharma, one body at a time – until they run out of bodies.

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