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Voters crush the carbon tax and corruption — worst Australian government gone — Labor learnt nothing

 

Tony Abbott announces Australia is open for business again.

 

Finally Australia steps back from a porkbarrelling party that stood for nothing more than being in power.

They broke promises to anyone and everyone with Olympian success. And it was not just the usual politician broken promise of failing to solve a problem they promised to solve: they brought in The Carbon Tax after dishonestly guaranteeing they would not. Would they have won the 2010 election if they hadn’t made that promise? (It would only have taken 400 voters in Corangamite to rewrite history.) They’ve taken broken promises to an all new level, where nothing they say can be trusted. It was not a question of them trying and failing, it was a question of being elected through deception. Every single Labor member chose to break that promise; any one of them could have stopped it. This is not a “leadership” question. It’s a question of integrity, and it applies to every member of the party.

The Labor Party also told us Tony Abbott was a misogynist, relentlessly negative, and a denier, and in return the Labor Party received one of the lowest primary votes in history.

I wish I could say it was all blue sky and roses from here. It’s great news to be sure, but there are mountains to overcome. What is amazing is that — even after their lies were made into laws, billions of dollars were squandered, people died because of inept home insulation programs, and their promises to be fiscally conservative delivered deficit after deficit — still about 47% of Australian’s still thought they deserved a vote*. How bad would this government have had to get?

Last night the concession speech Rudd gave was delusional. It was quite unlike Whitlam in 1975 or Keating in 1996, after their heavy defeats. The triumphant, jubilant cries of vindication from Labor were blind to the fact that an incumbent government lost badly, and after only two terms. We know 70% of ABC journalists vote Labor-Green. Which one is trying to bring Labor back to a sensible position? Such a fog of illusion in the minds of the Labor Party can only be kept alive by active support of the media. Bizarrely, the journalist fans do the party no favours by allowing the delusion to pass as is. By ignoring the flaws, the soft media virtually filter for the incompetents to rise to the top.

In a sane world an investigative media would also have doggedly pursued the Craig Thompson affair and never allowed it to drag on in limbo for years. In the proper course of events he would have faced charges far sooner, and the Gillard government would have faced a savage by-election (see the Dobell results below). How many voters even now know that Gillard herself is under police investigation or that two journalists who started to mention it were sacked?  If the opposition leader was under police investigation, it would have been a hot-button, high rotation bullet point. But Gillard was only the Prime Minister, right? What universe does this make sense in? The media IS the problem.

The results speak for themselves:

Some issues have become well known, and on these the people have spoken:

  • Craig Thompson is now facing 173 criminal charges for allegedly misusing union funds to pay for prostitutes and what-not. Thompson stood as an independent, and garnered just 4% of the votes.
  • The Labor Party relied on Peter Slipper (formerly a Liberal). He stood for re-election, but, in a record low for an incumbent candidate, scored just 1.4% of the vote. (On two party preferred levels, 57% of his electorate didn’t want that Labor government he helped to prop up.)
  • Robb Oakshott was the turncoat representative who held a conservative seat but voted in a socialist deceitful government in 2010. He knew he could not stand for election. Yesterday 50% of his electorate voted National. Only 25% voted for the Greens or Labor. (After preferences, 65% of his electorate is conservative, 35% left-leaning.)
  • Tony Windsor was turncoat number two. Yesterday 54% of his electorate voted for the National’s Barnaby Joyce. On two party preferred, 71% of the votes went to the Nationals, 29% to Labor.

If any one of these four electorates had been given the chance to vote between 2010 and now, the Labor government would have fallen much sooner.

Current tally: Labor 46.72% (57 seats), Coalition  53.28% (88 seats)

Greens 1, Katter 1, Wilkie 1.  Seats undecided = 2.

About a fifth of votes (a record number) were made before the election. These aren’t counted yet, as far as I know, but are likely to lean towards the Coalition.

Will the carbon tax survive the Senate?

Australians want alternatives to the two major parties and the Senate is a churning soup of minor and micro party preferences. It now looks like the Liberals will be doing deals with minor parties to get legislation through, and whether or not the Carbon Tax is removed may boils down to these deals. At the moment the potential senators to vote it out include a Family First senator, possibly two Palmer United candidates, a  Liberal Democrat, one Motoring Enthusiast, and a Sports Party man. Nick Xenophon (definitely elected again) has said he opposes the carbon tax. If the Liberals have 33 Senators, and there are 6 sympathetic other senators, the tax will go. We won’t know for another week probably.

The Greens may have lost their balance of power in the Senate.

The Labor Party haven’t learned a thing

So far there are no signs the Labor Party is going to recognize any real lessons from this loss. Shame, we need two good parties in a two-party system.

They’re blaming “the campaign”, as if they could have put better lipstick on the pig that is the current party platform/record. They’re blaming the lack of unity and division and the leadership struggles, but they are not saying they made a mistake in forcing a law on Australians that we didn’t want. They’re not saying they had the wrong policy, no sir. Tanya Plibersek last night gave Labor 9 out of 10 for achievement, but only zero out of 10 for leadership and that’s why they lost. (Who picked those leaders?) They’re not saying they have to deal with union corruption, or that they need to pick better candidates.

And they’re not apologizing to voters for trashing our trust, our money, and our children’s taxes.

We’ll be paying off this debt for years to come.

* only 34% voted Labor on first preference, but 47% preferred Labor to the Coalition.

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Voters crush the carbon tax and corruption -- worst Australian government gone -- Labor learnt nothing, 9.3 out of 10 based on 142 ratings

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439 comments to Voters crush the carbon tax and corruption — worst Australian government gone — Labor learnt nothing

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    AndyG55

    Jo, if you go to http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDivisionTcpByPollingPlace-17496-115.htm

    down the bottom you can see that pre-poll and postal have not been counted yet.


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    • #

      Actually, pre-polls from own electorates have been counted.
      I was a scrutineer for the LNP in the seat of Lilley. A total of 10,140 pre-polls from own electorates were counted. The count finished at 11.30pm.
      Now we wait for the postals and pre-polls from outside of own electorates. These are about 15% of the total votes.


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      • #
        AndyG55

        Maybe counted, but you can see they are not tallied yet.

        Here’s Lilley, bottom of page.

        http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDivisionTcpByPollingPlace-17496-169.htm


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        Mattb

        lol it’s funny I always get accused of having green or ALP affiliations… who knew Bah that you were just an LNP stooge on here vote mining!


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        • #

          @MattB

          I could have quite easily not mentioned the party I helped on the day.
          But seen as you are interested, and to set the record straight, I have once been a member of the Labor party (for 12 months in South Australia in 1996-7)
          I have never before worked on election day for a party or the AEC.

          I decided to help a particular candidate this time (Rod McGarvie) because I know the man. He and his family were customers of mine for a few years.
          BECAUSE I KNOW HIM TO BE A GOOD, HONEST, INTELLIGENT man who serves his community well, I decided to help him as best as I can.

          It looks like Rod may be a few hundred votes short. Unless he decides to run again, I can’t at this time see myself working another election.

          Hope that clears it up and your ill informed snarky comment was uncalled for.


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            Mattb

            if apologies for ill-informed snarky comments were the norm on this website, well I’d be getting them none stop.

            But you are right… I apologise for my ill-informed snark.


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              Ian

              MattB you get “snarky” comments in response to the condescending and arrogant tone of Many of your posts. That coupled with an apparent complete ignorance of anomalies in climate science that are not mentioned by the MSM and Labor politicians, riles very many commenters here. The first post of yours to Baa Humbug quite clearly makes my point.


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              ian hilliar

              Hi Matt! I am not a member of any political party, but have been handing out LNP how to vote cards at elections since the last days of the Howard government. When asked why, my usual reply is that-”if the LNP were trying to bring in a tax on CO2, I would be handing out how to votes for the ALP. Then, when the Greens say “You can’t be a climate denier” I ask if any of them have read Bob Brown’s Green Oration.. Not one of those greens handing out how to vote green cards have ever read Bob’s manifesto, so I very politely suggest they google it, and then reflect on whether that is the same party they support.


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          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            Staring Baa Humbug in:

            The Hunting of the Snark

            Coming to a blogsite near you.


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        • #
          Angry

          MattB THE BASKET WEAVER KING !


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        Leo G

        Absentee votes, pre-poll votes cast outside an elector’s division, postal votes and provisional votes are not included in the polling day count. That’s AEC rules.
        Moreover the scrutinisers don’t count the distribution of preferences on polling day, they do a sample, or indicative count, for the two main contenders.


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  • #
    Michael Larkin

    What a wonderful thing is the Internet! Here I am, a Brit, eagerly following the election events and wondering how the senate will turn out, hoping beyond hope that you Aussies will throw out the carbon tax. Good on ya all! :-)


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      AndyG55

      I’m pretty sure that Mr Abbott (our new PM) will do everything he can to stick to the commitments he has made. It may not happen overnight. The senate may end up being obstructionist.

      Time will tell.


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        Michael Larkin

        ‘Tis devoutly to be wished. Still, having the senate on side will make it all the easier, I suppose?


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        DavidH

        Abbott will certainly have to deal with those independents, hopefully only throwing them a bone or two and not selling them his soul as Labor did. If they get too obstructionist, the threat of a double dissolution will hopefully make them think again. I’m sure they wouldn’t want to go down in history in the annals of shortest serving senators ever.


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        Brian H

        I gather that if it’s too obstructionist, Tony can “double-dissolve” and call new elections. Who would that favour, do you suppose?


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    • #
      Winston

      I’m sure that the progressive tide turning here can only bode well for conservatives in the UK. As you suggest, the Internet has the power to shape opinion through events across the globe in similar democracies. Just as Canada’s rejection of Kyoto and carbon tax Nazism has helped Abbott here, a good performance by Abbott will give greater resolve to more properly conservative Tories there, or to UKIP, should the Green menace be expunged efficiently here being a model for others to follow.

      I have a theory that the more repressive a belief system, eg. McCarthyism, then the greater force of reactionary change in the political system, and Greenism is no different.

      Where the House of UnAmerican Activities witch hunt spawned The Crucible, movies like The Front, and spawned a generation or two of Marxist inspired academics and a galvanized left wing entertainment industry ramping up communistic propaganda dressed as progressivism, so too will Green inspired Agenda 21 sustainability doctrine spawn a reactionary response by Libertarians and those who inevitably can see through the rhetoric to its black-hearted, anti-humanity agenda and network accordingly. It just requires an initial spark of redress in the corridors of power to switch the momentum the other direction.

      The danger of course is that it might open the door to equally anti- human warmongering NeoCons to hop on our bandwagon and ride our coat tails of indignation at the progressives controlling over-reach, something I would personally find equally unpalatable.

      As it happens however, we have a so called progressive stooge in the White House at the moment, hell bent on causing WW3 by invading Syria, proving that the division between NeoCon warmonger and progressive Nobell Peace Prize winner is barely the width of a cigarette paper. So perhaps it doesn’t really matter which way we jump, we just end up back where we started in the Möbius strip of life in the 21st Century.


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        bobl

        Just as a point – I think it’s unwise to refer to Agenda 21 in these terms. It sounds like “Area 51″ or any other number of whacko conspiracy theories. We should call it by an accurate name less likely to elicit these accusations – IE the UN’s Sustainable development plan

        Jo, that goes for you too….


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        • #
          ian hilliar

          Bobl, I agree. Just refer people to Bob Brown’s “Green Oration”, and suggest that it is not surprising that some people are a little concerned re Agenda 21, seeing that it is official greens policy


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      Steve

      Another Brit here, congratulations on the result, just hope the Senate goes your way too. Spent 5 weeks in your great country a couple of months back travelling 11000 kms (what must my carbon footprint have been !!!) and most of the Aussies I spoke with were desperate to get rid of the bunch of liars they had in charge. I just wish I could have voted. Here’s hoping your result inspires other nations to do the same. Good luck to you all.


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    Rereke Whakaaro

    The media IS the problem

    In more ways than one. It is easier for a journalist to get closer to a politician if they appear to be are sympathetic to the current policy. By getting close to the politician, they believe that they will get better information, and therefore better copy to give to the Editor. They therefore end up as mirrors and yes-men (I refuse to say yes-persons).

    But the primary role of a journalist is to challenge, and probe, and ask the awkward questions that the politician would prefer not to have asked. To counter that, many politicians well refuse to have dealings with people (anybody) who challenges them, preferring to live in an echo chamber. That is the real problem.

    Politicians will not change, on their own, why would they, But Editors can. If the media see the refusal of a politician to have anything to do with a journalist as a badge of honour, and publicise the fact that this politician will not answer question on … then things will start to change.

    If the journalists are not doing their job of keeping the politicians honest, then why do we need them at all?


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    Winston

    Against all logic, Labor will convince itself that it was actually a success in its term of government, and only its divisiveness caused its defeat. Having learned nothing, they will lose next time by an even greater margin in 3 years time.

    The Greens vote will continue to slide, as the small taste we have endured will leave a bad taste in all but the most deluded uni student or inner city trendy.

    Abbott will be a moderate, conservative a cautious PM. Some will accuse him of populism, he will disappoint some but relatively speaking he will be a marked improvement on those who’ve preceded him.

    Rudd, in full flush of delusion, will still continue to consider himself the Messiah, and will no doubt once again strive to return to leadership, sometime in the future if Labor’s fortunes remain in the cellar. His fatuous and self-congratulatory speech shows a man whose ego knows no bounds, and who steadfastly refuses to accept the reality of the publics perception of him. Watch for Rudd Mk3. You heard it here first.


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    • #

      Working a couple of booths on saturday, I can tell you that the Greens vote has settled, that is, it will not go much lower.

      Depending on the political winds of the time, the Green vote will go up a bit, down a bit.
      The most interest will be if they can secure an odd niche seat here or there, and how many senators they can get in to parliament with the backroom deals they make with various other parties.

      There are many many rusted on Greens who are aged 30s to 50s (vegans, bike riders, gay lesbian brigade, environmentalists etc) and many many younger voters who will vote green without knowing anything about policies. Idealism rules with many of the young.

      So, unless they implode somehow like the Democrats did, the Greens will be a thorn in our side for a long long time to come.


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        Robert JM

        An CAGW gravy train derailment should finish them off. Just look at the Tas result!


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        Hasbeen

        I found it interesting that at my polling station, south of Brisbane, the Labor lady was also handing out the Green how to vote cards.

        I guess the reports of a divorce were somewhat exaggerated.


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        • #

          I guess the reports of a divorce were somewhat exaggerated

          Well no not quite mate. At one of the booths I worked at, the Palmer Party lady had to go (somewhere) so both I and the Labor woman offered to take some of her how to vote cards and hand them to people who asked for them.
          It was just courtesy during the excercise of our democratic rights.


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      Annie

      It’s interesting that you use the term ‘Messiah’ in relation to Rudd. My immediate reaction to the photo’s of him yesterday was ‘there goes someone with a very strong Messiah complex’.


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      Angry

      alp (Australian LIARS PARTY) none so blind as those that refuse to see.
      They will NEVER hold government in Australia ever again…..


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  • #

    Probably the good thing to come out of this is that Labor needs to rebuild.

    Note specifically that, despite what they said, they had to rely on Green preferences in the Reps to win a lot of the seats that they did eventually win.

    They ended up with their worst Primary vote in 60 plus years.

    That’s why they need to rebuild.

    And that effectively segues to The Senate.

    The current crowd that were up for re-election yesterday are still there until mid 2014, another year.

    It’s all bluster that they will attempt to block the repeal of the CO2 Tax/ETS ….. because of that need to rebuild.

    They’ll do what they did in Qld following the debacle for the ALP there, and install basically an ineffective leader like dear Annastacia Palaszczuk (palashay) a temporary leader until close to the election, a la, Bill Hayden and the Hawke coup, and when the rebuild is complete, the real anointed one will step forth, because no one wants to be seen as leader of a ‘rump’, a poisoned chalice at the moment.

    So, The Senate ….. existing ….. right now ….. until the change over.

    If the ALP is seen as blockers, and effectively supported by The Greens, they again get tarred with the same brush, considering that Prime Minister Abbott now effectively has a mandate to do what he has said he will.

    If the ALP, backed by The Greens block the repeal, then that could go even worse for them in the event of a DD, where The Greens now only need 8% for a full quota, and the ALP could lose even more Senators, and also lose out to the minnow micro parties.

    So, I have a hunch that the repeal will actually be tacitly supported by the ALP in the Senate, and in so doing will cause The Greens to bluster even more, and losing them even more appeal than they have.

    All because Labor needs time to rebuild, and they don’t want to lose even more people, forcing them to further rebuild, only now from an even lower base.

    It’s tricky, but before the election, Labor needed to say one thing to keep the faith, and having backed down once by trying to water down the Tax to a lower floating price, then a further back down now will do them less harm in the long run than running a block that could damage them even further.

    Tony.


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    • #
      Safetyguy66

      I agree Tony. As someone who once passionately supported the Labour Party (yes Im not ashamed to admit it) Im quite happy that Bill Shorten will be leader (seem most likely) because at least he has spent his career so far practicing the basics of true Labour values. Hes a man who has gone into bat for workers time and again, that’s Labour, not the crap we got from Krudd and Juliar. If they can get back to the proper values of a Labour movement, they may have a chance, but they wont get another shot at power for 2 terms. 100 years of political history says the Libs will get 2 rides of the bike unless they do something really dumb.


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        Greebo

        Shorten? Labor values? Shorten showed his true ‘Labor values’ during the Beaconsfield Mining Disaster, where getting his head on TV was his utmost priority. Other, Labor Value type folk were getting their hands dirty. Bill was just getting in the way. That seems to be what he’s good at. The last decent union leader in the ALP was Bob Hawke. There’s a bloke who understood ‘Labor Values”.Unfortunately, he set a precedent where any union hack can now believe that they have a God given right to govern. This was once the ALP’s cry against the Libs, and I don’t deny it’s validity. Fraser was a classic example. Labor, however, seem to have taken it a great deal further.
        If Shorten or Albanese are the best they have on offer, then best they rot in peace.


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        bobl

        You gotta be kidding, withhis association with the AWU and a former AWU high flyer and ALP president currently before the courts (Williamson) and a former AWU ally and Solicitor for the AWU / Former PM currently under investigation for producing false documents I’d say anyone from the AWU is rather tainted. That and the possibility of an RC into the AWU producing even more charges… God knows they’re not dumb enough to try that are they? The risks of Shorten being drawn into that particular pig swill are just too high.


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        Truthseeker

        This is from a comment on one of Bolt’s blog threads …

        Shorten is the logical choice because he would be unable to stab himself in the back …


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        dylan

        Safetyguy66- I agree Labor is not a party for workers any more. You may be interested in watching Warren Mundine’s (former ALP president) interview on SBS last night in which he talked about what it used to mean to be a ‘worker’. I disagree Labor has any future with Shorten.


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      Greebo

      Probably the good thing to come out of this is that Labor needs to rebuild.

      To me, that is the tragedy of all of this. If Gillard had continued, the rout would have been absolute, and the likes of Shorten and Albanese would be gone as well, and a TRUE rebuilding would take place. Now that Kevin has saved some of the furniture ( what a ridiculous metaphor ), all they’ll do is paper over the cracks.They will also feel some justification in opposing the mandate given to Mr Abbott. The threat of a Double Dissolution may become a reality. I, for one, hope it does. Too much obstruction may well turn the tide even further against the ALP as we have it today.

      I’m on record in a few places as despising Paul Keating, but he once famously described the Senate as ‘unrepresentative swill’. On this, and only this, I may well agree with him. It’s a hard choice to make, as I lived in Queensland when Joh was the Premier, and having no Upper House to rein him in was problematic, Of course, it’s hard to envision a Gerrymander situation like the one he enjoyed happening in Canberra, so perhaps it’s time to look at disbanding the Senate, or at least rejigging it’s makeup. For instance, why should Tasmania have the same number of Senators as NSW? Why is the Senate reliant on quotas? I’m aware that the folk who framed our Constitution were probably wiser than me, but the future was a very distant place from them, and things, as they say, have changed. The folk who framed the Constitution of The United States of America were probably wise as well, butI reckon the majority of people in the US today would probably prefer that the Second Amendment hadn’t been proclaimed.
      So, get rid of the States and the Senate that’s tied to them, and have local and Federal perhaps.
      Sorry, I appear to be raving, but something needs to happen or we’ll just do it over again.


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      Mattb

      “Note specifically that, despite what they said, they had to rely on Green preferences in the Reps to win a lot of the seats that they did eventually win.”

      That’s what happens when you have a left/centrist party… there simply isn’t enough “right” left beyond the right of the LNP for them to get 10% votes. If you are an extremist nutter you can rest assured the LNP ticks your boxes.


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        Graeme No.3

        Mattb:
        Your logic escapes me. What you have said reads as

        “Labor had to rely on Green preferences to win seats therefore the Liberal Party vote includes all right wing nutters.”

        Given the wide range of parties that collected votes, I don’t think you could mean that the Liberal vote was all inclusive in any way.

        Or are you saying that all nutters should vote for left wing?


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          Mattb

          NO graeme… but assuming voters are distributed from far left to far right along some sort of bell curve, then more people on the right of the spectrum vote libs than do those on the left vote ALP. Those towards the left end vote for true left parties and preference the ALP. Those towards the right end vote for the LNP, with only the very extremes voting for say your Rise up Australias and the like

          Palmer party a bit of a wildcard… I think they got left and right leaning types to vote for them… which is where preference deals get interesting.


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            Angry

            Poor little Mattb.
            Be careful you don’t harm yourself in your depression…


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              Mattb

              Angry no matter how low I get I can always smile at the fact there are f#cking idiots in the world like yourself and reflect on how lucky I am not to be one.


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                Backslider

                how lucky I am not to be one

                Wow Matt… left yourself wide open there. Who will be the first?…. Oh! Looks like its me…. well Matt, you are in fact a f#cking idiot.


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                Backslider

                Oh, looks like we can no longer post words that I hear regularly on Australian television…..
                [Certain words get stuck in the moderation filter - we have to dig them out -Fly]


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                crakar24

                Yes you can thats the way we spell it here :-)

                MattB is just struggling to come to terms with the fact that the concensus that counts has spoken and we will shortly have no carbon tax and no green slush fund to pi$$ away.


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                Mattb

                no one here respected the consensus of the last 6 years. Abbott certainly didn’t.


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                crakar24

                Sorry Matt but your depth of knowledge has found you wanting yet again.

                It was the greens that rejected KRudds CPRS the first time around so take your beef up with them, the second time around Gillard sold her soul to the lure of power (not a very good character trait you want in a PM) and bribed everyone she needed to only to double cross a couple in a contrived consensus.

                This is democracy in motion pal put up with it or piss off.


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                Mattb

                Crackar a hyandful of greens can’t stop anything that has both majors on board. Abbott blocked the ETS, despite a clear mandate.


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                Backslider

                no one here respected the consensus of the last 6 years

                What consensus is that Matt?


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            Graeme No.3

            Mattb:

            Read what you wrote, not what you meant. You are certainly showing that the left wing attracts people with poor literacy and logical skills, and your fury at your party not being in power calls into question your understanding or commitment to democracy.

            I would also take you to task for calling Angry a fracking idiot. As far as I know he is not involved in fracking.
            Of course Backslider wasn’t implying that you had any connection with fracking.


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        AndyG55

        Poor little Matt,

        You are behaving like a petulant little brat that has had a toy taken from him.

        Sour, sour grapes.


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          Rereke Whakaaro

          Well, I think Matt deserves some respect.

          He could have chosen to not comment today; chosen not front up to you guys; that would have been the easy way out. He chose not to do that. He has mana.


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            crakar24

            With all due respect RW i must disagree, Matt floats in and out of here when the need arises but in all these years he has not learnt a thing.

            The poor bastard cant even accept the latest result, he is once again reduced to smears and aspersions, still bull shitting the same old tired lines.

            He cannot face reality, once again he is right and a vast majority of the population is wrong, deniers, right wing nutters etc. He is incapable of learning, incapable of conceding he is wrong when appropriate, incapable of progressing/maturing he is stuck.

            I have absolutely no time nor the patience for a person of this stature he gets no respect from me.


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      Lawrie

      Tony,
      It’s going to take some time to draft the rescinding legislation so it may be well into next year before it can go to the senate. In the meantime I don’t see why the current $24.15 can’t be set at a lower rate by regulation. If the Coalition could by-pass the Greens and ALP with the aid of the new cross bench the ALP could be completely side-lined and made irrelevant. OTOH having them vote down their own legislation would be a greater victory although I don’t believe they are capable of admitting a mistake.

      I also don’t believe Rudd will serve his full term as it would take even more humility this time round and there will be absolutely no hope for his return as leader. Bill Shorten is a very wishy-washy character as is Bowen. Albanese is a scumbag for calling us the “convoy of no consequence/incontinence”. And don’t forget that not one of them made a stand against Thompson, Slipper, media laws, reckless spending ad infinitum.


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    Graeme No.3

    They are already practising their excuses.
    1. Leadership was at fault; partly true because of their choice and partly because Rudd ran a chaotic campaign. But there was no one better available.
    2. Murdoch press waged campaign against the Labor Party. If telling the truth is a campaign, then they might, just might, have a point. But even the SMH got stuck in on occasions. The real problem here was they thought they could control what was said or written. Hence their eagerness to suppress anything they didn’t like; their attacks on Bolt, Jones etc. The Finkelstein solution was and is a symptom of this delusion.

    The controllers will now seek to change the party structure/rules etc. in such a way that they will “become more responsive to the public”. This means that they will fall back on their inner city core of believers and fight it out with the Greens for a minority of the vote. They have lost a lot of the Unionists who used to provide the quality, backbone and finance.

    Recall Kim Beazley Senior’s observation: ““When I joined the Labor Party, it contained the cream of the working class. But as I look about me now all I see are the dregs of the middle class.” Does that bring anybody to mind?


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      Lawrie

      They will also continue to recruit their candidates from a union movement and public servants that represent a reducing portion of the nation. They will also rely on the mendicant and the stupid which will be reflected in their policies and their politicians. I don’t see much difference between Sarah Hyphen and Tanya Pleibersek; both are from the church of Climatology and both think spending other peoples money is without consequences.


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      Annie

      Did Kim Beazley say that? If he did he’s gone right up in my estimation.


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        Graeme No.3

        Quote was from Kim Beazley Senior.

        I have no idea what Kim Beazley’s views are, but I suspect his views on K. Rudd are along those lines.


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        MemoryVault

        Annie,

        Please don’t confuse the fat guy, Kim Christian Beazley, who was a minister in the Hawke-Keating governments, and Leader of the Labor Party after Keating’s defeat in 1996, with his father, Kim Edward Beazley.

        The fat guy was a politician. His father was a Statesman.
        Big difference.


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      Angry

      The alp (Australian LIARS PARTY) will never learn from their mistakes.
      Trying to rewrite history will only make things worse.


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    AndyG55

    “It’s all bluster that they will attempt to block the repeal of the CO2 Tax/ETS ….. because of that need to rebuild.”

    To rebuild they have first to ADMIT they made a mistake.

    The very best start would be to accept the fact, and allow the Liberals to dismantle the carbon tax.

    Their new leader should be someone with promise from the “unknowns”.
    If they put in any of the current troop of known misfits, they are just doing more of the same. Shorten, the Pleb, Wong, Albo.. would all be a great mistake, on top of the many other mistakes they have made in the past 6 years. They have at least 6 years to groom someone worthwhile.

    Yes, in KRudd’s words… its time for a new start !!!


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    • #

      Luckily, it can’t be Penny Wong, as she sits in The Senate.

      Hey, and how about Clive as The Speaker!!!!! (Do I really need add /sarc)

      At least Labor get to sit on their natural side ….. the left, of both Houses.

      Tony.


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        Safetyguy66

        Spot on Tony.

        What I don’t understand about Clive though is why he would want to sit there and have no effect on anything, which will surely be his fate. I cant believe he values his time so little as to waste it warming a bench.

        I can only conclude that the last 6 years has deluded some people into thinking minor parties count for anything at all. Now the Libs have a clear majority in the Lower House we are reminded of the words of the last great Labour man we may ever see. A man who I actually revere because he actually stood for genuine labour values of jobs, health, education, industry and prosperity. Values now lost in the mists of time for this bunch of extreme conservative imposters posing as a Labour movement.

        “The Senate are merely unrepresentative swill”


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          Dave

          Safetyguy66

          “I cant believe he values his time so little as to waste it warming a bench.” when you said this, I was thinking the same thing, what can Clive get out of this?

          Dealing with China in his business would, I believe become easier as A POLITICIAN in the Australian Government (be it a low independent backbencher). But won’t this title increase his apparent standing amongst those in China (being political and business in one). Maybe some of his outstanding payments will come in quicker than normal.


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            MemoryVault

            I’m with you on this one, Dave.

            Parliament just doesn’t sit for that many days, and contrary to what most people think, even when it does sit, most of the time only a handful of politicians from either side are present. If he wins, Palmer will be entitled to an electoral officer or two, and, if necessary, he can afford to pay somebody to the legwork in the electorate to keep the voters happy.

            Conversely, being a Member of Parliament (and quite possibly the Leader of a party with influence in the Senate), will skyrocket his standing amongst the Chinese he deals with, both business and political – which is almost the same thing up there.


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          Considerate Thinker

          Pretty easy that one, Clive can get even with some pesky people by saying the most outrageous things under the rules protecting the privilege of politicians to speak freely in Parliament without risking defamation, I guess Hedley Thomas might stand by for an even up serve from Clive or from his other party members. The only fly in the ointment might be his need to disclose his investments and interests. And when he travels he will travel as a member of parliament and I am sure will try to get added to trade delegations so his expertise can be used. Stand by for more!!


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            Streetcred

            :) do you think that once this has gained traction in his mind, he might resign from parliament ? It is going to be somewhat of a millstone around his neck that he will not be able to appoint a proxy to carry on his behalf.


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      Brian H

      I initially assumed the tax was the Greenie’s price for support. But the justifications etc. started flowing too thick and fast to really believe that.


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    J Martin

    They’re blaming “the campaign”, as if they could have put better lipstick on the pig that is the current party platform/record.

    Jo, Quote of the month. Perhaps quote of the year.


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    Manfred

    This kind of delusion is the same that is seen in articles such as this:
    Caribbean Water Supply Threatened By Climate Change
    Published September 07, 2013
    Fox News Latino

    The article states:
    “Rising sea levels could contaminate supplies of fresh water and changing climate patterns could result in less rain…”

    “Inaction is not an option,” said Lystra Fletcher-Paul, Caribbean land and water officer for the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization. “The water resources will not be available.”

    “We’re seeing changes in weather patterns,” said Avril Alexander, Caribbean coordinator for the nonprofit Global Water Partnership.

    “There are a number of indications that the total amount of rainfall in much of the Caribbean would be decreasing by the end of the century,” said Cedric Van Meerbeeck, a climatologist with the Caribbean Institute for Meteorology & Hydrology.

    But wait….
    having entitled this article: “Caribbean Water Supply Threatened By Climate Change” we now read…

    “Climate is maybe not the biggest factor, but it’s a drop in an already full bucket of water,” he said. “It will have quite dramatic consequences if we keep using water the way we do right now.”

    Overuse of wells elsewhere has caused saltwater seepage and a deterioration of potable water underground, leading to the construction of hundreds of desalination plants in the Caribbean.

    My point here is that politicians and media will keep banging the drum, keep catastrophising, keep peddling the UN sanctioned mantra UNTIL they realise they are looking terminally stupid and no one is listening.

    The election in Australia demonstrated among other things that fewer people are listening to the head banging diatribe that is the Ministry of We Know Best. The people are speaking and they will speak louder and more forcibly as time passes. That those have foisted this mess on the unsuspecting do not realise the error of their ways is of absolutely no consequence. They pass forever into complete irrelevance.

    Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/lifestyle/2013/09/07/caribbean-water-supply-threatened-by-climate-change/#ixzz2eHjJwayJ


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    Safetyguy66

    Possibly the best summary of the situation Ive seen so far Jo well done. I knew there was a reason I hung out with you folks.

    Labour and the Greens will never learn because they are always right. People from that side of politics find it impossible to admit error because in their opinion they have never made any mistakes.

    Labour and Greens will always blame someone or something else. This time its “the campaign”, the leadership struggles, Rupert Murdoch and of course the ignorance of the Australian people in not realising that being led by fruitless intellectuals is actually what’s best for them.

    If ever there was a living analogy for the old saying “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” then left politics is that analogy. I will leave the last words to Fredrick Hayek, who described Australia’s current situation in late 1943. He was able to do that because left politics never change. Socialism leads to totalitarianism and it can never lead anywhere else.

    “It is true that the virtues which are less esteemed and practiced now–independence, self-reliance, and the willingness to bear risks, the readiness to back one’s own conviction against a majority, and the willingness to voluntary cooperation with one’s neighbors–are essentially those on which the of an individualist society rests. Collectivism has nothing to put in their place, and in so far as it already has destroyed then it has left a void filled by nothing but the demand for obedience and the compulsion of the individual to what is collectively decided to be good.”
    ― Friedrich A. von Hayek, The Road to Serfdom

    Thank science its over……. for now…


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    J Martin

    I think Tony Abbott’s pre election statement that he’d go for a double dissolution if the senate doesn’t accept the removal of the carbon tax was a clever move. It gave the senate enough time for it to sink in and assess the man and realise that he really will carry it out. I figure the carbon removal bill will go through.

    Myself in the UK I gave up voting 15 years ago, as regardless of whatever a party promised, they never delivered and eventually all three major parties merged into one all too similar agw cult policy that had no courage to address any of the other fundamental issues facing the country far less do anything about them. Though with the arrival of a more popular UKIP, all that may be about to change.

    So I am not readily impressed by politicians, I value honesty and integrity highly, I like politicians to speak their minds regardless of prevailing political correctness, and I like politicians who do what they say they will do. In the UK only two politicians spring to mind that meet these criteria, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage.

    To that list of two I think I can now add Tony Abbott. I have been impressed by what I have seen so far and I expect / hope he will transform into a great leader for Australia, setting an example for many politicians around the world.


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      MemoryVault

      .
      I think you need to give those rose-coloured glasses a quick wipe, J Martin.

      While I agree entirely with your comments about Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage, Tony Abbott has yet to do or say anything to indicate he is anywhere near the same league as them.

      Maybe he will, but meantime, I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.


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      Brian H

      Harper in Canada might qualify. The first big anti-CAGW majority. Still has goo-goo bureaucracies to deal with, and suicidal provincial governments here and there, but pretty much keeping the faith.


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    ianl8888

    The now-dethroned Sun King’s concession speech was a typically long-winded,narcissistic variation of Big Arnie Scwharzenegger’s best-know film line:

    “I’ll be back !!”

    So now he sits on the opposition backbench, probing, undermining, running populist twithead programmes etc, cynically waiting for opportunities to knife his more vulnerable colleagues one by one until he is ascended again (this really is the way he thinks)

    Bob Carr should be afraid, very afraid. Foreign Affairs is an obvious launching pad

    Whether he’s still electable as a Prime Minister in 3 years seems very unlikely, but he believes he will be. The ALP still has a huge management problem with him … couldn’t happen to more deserving people :)


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    Stephen Richards

    Well done Australia. I knew you wouldn’t let us down.


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    Anton

    “So far there are no signs the Labor Party is going to recognize any real lessons from this loss. Shame, we need two good parties in a two-party system.”

    Agreed – but does the other party have to be the Labor Party?

    Why 47%? This large figure for such a ghastly party is presumably from the people to whom Labor hands out tax revenue together with public employees; and it is based on pure financial self-interest. Does not Labor consistently seek to expand the numbers in both categories and increase governmental generosity to them? It is called electoral bribery.


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      Safetyguy66

      I bought a second hand lawnmower from a guy who runs a small shop in a nearby small town (stay with me). Hes only open a couple of days a week and seems to work pretty hard. The mower he sold me had been fixed up by him and its great, I could see from the multiple disassembled motors on the bench’s he knows small engines.

      Making some banter as he did the paperwork I said “so did you get what you wanted in your presents this morning?”

      He knew what I meant and shook his head and looked quite glum “what happens to my wages now Abbott is in?”

      I said “but your a small business man, surely that’s up to you isn’t it?”

      He replied “Na mate, were buggered now”

      So basically, go figure. How do you explain that? The man is in control of his destiny, he’s basically unaffected by any coalition policy that I can think of, yet hes convinced the best thing for him was to vote for Labour. I guess its just about an argument against some of the things I was saying up the page, that left intellectuals think ordinary Australians need them to look after them. If you analyse this guy, then Id say they are right, he does need looking after. But I prefer to think hes just, for one reason or another, not savvy enough about what’s happening to realise life as a small business person is pretty much guaranteed to be better under what we call a “Liberal” Government.

      And finally to punctuate that “though bubble”

      I offer this (go to 19:30 and cringe in horror at the good voters of this great nation)

      http://youtu.be/nGJi2v56ajs


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        Mattb

        have you ever had a conversation with an actual small small businessman before whose income relies on having an economy growing at 3% p.a. even through the GFC. I’m sure you are right, he should be excited at the thought of cuts to spending.


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          Mark D.

          So government pumping printing money causes the 3% growth? You leftists have a bizarre understanding of how things work. Government that cuts spending WHO’S MONEY?

          Why would a business “rely on having an economy growing at 3% p.a.” ? Is there no other way to improve efficiency, create a better product or perform a better service?

          Did you bother to ask why this shop keeper is only open “a couple days a week”? I know why; it’s because he has another job with a union. He’s just another scab taking half a job away from another mate down the street. He should close shop.


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            MemoryVault

            .
            My guess would be a a maintenance worker on a 4 on, 4 off day shift, 2 on, 2 off night shift DIDO at a nearby mine site. Given the Labor-lean I would say a coal mine.

            Any coal mines within a couple of hour’s driving distance of the “small nearby town”, Safetyguy?


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          Safetyguy66

          Well Matt its no my turn to accuse you of cherry picking. Everyone who touts Labour’s management of the economy during the so called GFC seems to conveiniently forget that Australia was one of the only countries, possibly the only one, that went into that period with what economists call a “surplus”. I know a surplus might be a foreign concept to a person who thinks you can keep spending beyond your means for ever, but I can assure you it is an important part of responsible economic management when in Government. As for “what do I know about small business”. I have owned 2 actually and my parents have been publicans and liquor store owners for 2 generations and farmers before that. So I think myself and my family have a fairly average graps of small business concerns.

          Once you emerge from the delusion that Government has the responsibility or obligation to micro manage every aspect of people’s lives, you will realise that our destiny in a country like Australia is for the most part in our own hands. Liberal Governments only fiddle at the margins in real terms and that leaves well managed small businesses the scope to use their expertise to make a profit. They should no need to be propped up by artificial administration or injections of tax payers money. If you business runs on such a knife edge that Government policies tip you over the edge, you were probably headed that way anyway. Its the kind of massive meddling you get with left politics that tips people into failure. Taxes, charges and red tape that has no relation to small business and only seeks to manipulate markets that should be allowed to find their own way.

          I always regard the reverence of big Government as the province of the weak and fearful. The notion that you “need” the Government to control things in order for them to work is so flawed I dont even know where to start. But I strongly recommend you read this, it will help you enormously in the realisation that you should be in control of your destiny, not idiots like Kevin Rudd and Granny Milne.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Serfdom

          Educate yourself and be free


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      Angry

      The entitlement mentality created by alp (Australian LIARS PARTY).


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  • #

    Labour do not need to rebuild they need to disappear. Not that I’m Australian or it’s got anything to do with me but my opinion is that political parties with hidden and hostile agendas are getting into power too often and the damage they do lasts generations.

    Politics needs to be removed from Government, jury style selection of suitably educated people and your vote used to vote them out, not in, every two years. In such a system they will be unable to stuff the institutions with ‘their people’. And if the institutions are not ‘cleansed’, it will all be for nothing and it will all repeat – each time worse.

    I’m pleased for you all and hope that Tony Abbot turns out to be a great PM, and that he doesn’t start flip-flopping on the carbon tax.


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      Bob Malloy

      Labour do not need to rebuild they need to disappear.

      I’m probably going to attract red thumbs here, but as the Beatles sang, Let it be.

      No, for the sake of the nation Labor does need to rebuild, more than that it needs a clean out. This once great party “bring on the red thumbs” lost its way when engine drivers ( Ben Chifley ), were no longer good enough to lead the party. Unionist have always been the soul of the party, a party structured from the bottom up,

      The following is only a guide, it may not be complete and terms are mine, not necessarily those of the Labor party.

      1. Local branch members
      2. Area committees
      3. State executive
      4. Federal executive

      The power of the party built from the bottom up, branch members set the agenda, nominated and elected their executive and so on all the way to who became candidates. These days it’s all upside down, union executives are professionals with university degrees but little or no time spent on the tools or the coal face, many using the system as a stepping stone into politics, Combet, Thompson, anyone. And if it isn’t professional union executives its Lawyers Whitlam, Gillard, by the way, why are lawyers and sperm similar, answer because only one in every two to six hundred thousand has a chance of becoming human.

      As I said above Labor does need a radical rebuild where the members take back the power from the executive, like our local representatives, council, state and federal members of parliament are supposed to work for us, union executives are the employees of the union members, they need to take instruction from the members, unlike as shown during this election unions running political adds authorised by the executive without the consent of the members.

      Kevin Rudd paid lip service to this but lip service only. To steal a line from Jo, a business without opposition is a monopoly, a government without oppositionis a dictatorship, and I don’t see any other party, Palmer, Katter having sufficient strength in the foreseeable future if ever and who else is there, oh yes the greens,I don’t think so.


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        Brian H

        Union officials have degenerated into labour market manipulators and rent-seekers. It’s no coincidence labour bosses are found in bed with racketeers and crooks so routinely. Worst are government employee unions. Read up on the US’ SEIU to see where that goes.


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  • #
    Rod Stuart

    News report that a Customs aircraft has just spotted an asylum seeker boat.
    It will be interesting to see what happens now.


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    JMD

    Prepare to be disappointed Reaganouts.


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      JMD

      Next govt will have to raise debt ceiling: Hockey
      6 Sep, 12:35 PM

      AAP, with a staff reporter

      The next federal government will need to legislate to raise the country’s $300 billion debt ceiling, shadow treasurer Joe Hockey says…..


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      Winston

      And Labor of course bear no responsibility for that at all, right?


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        JMD

        “Now, the first order of business, is to blame everything on the guy before me”.


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        • #
          AndyG55

          Fixing the huge amount of Labor’s MESS will take time.

          Come back in say 6 months, and see how things are going.

          Until then, shut the **** up and get out the way.


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            JMD

            “Now, the first order of business, is to blame everything on the guy before me”


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            • #
              AndyG55

              a parrot, with zero brains.

              or is that a Galah. !


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              AndyG55

              And yes, blame your inheritance on what went before.

              That’s how Rudd survived the GFC, it was nothing to do with his actions.

              The Lab?Green mismanagement has left Australia in a precarious economic position,

              Thank goodness the adults are now in charge..

              The real question is, just how much worse is the position than what Rudd and Co have let on.


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              Winston

              So,
              Let me get this straight. After racking up 300 billion in Commonwealth debt over a mere 6 years of Labor state and federal governments, the blame falls to Abbott, even though he isn’t even sworn in yet, and it is only the first day after he won the election. You must be joking! Typical Labor troll, no brains and happy without them.

              If you ever engage in a battle of wits, son, you might be half way toward succeeding.


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              AndyG55

              I’ll put it in terms even a galah might understand.

              Under the ALP/Greens the outflow of funds has grown so that it is always bigger than the inflow.

              Thus the debt keeps going up.

              Trouble is, you can’t just turn a lot of this spending off, you have to do it bit by bit.

              It will take a while for the Liberals to get this manic spending under control, somewhere back near balance.
              At that stage debt stops increasing.

              So YES, any increase in debt over the next year or 2 will be TOTALLY down to Labor’s chaotic and reckless financial mismanagement.


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            Annie

            At least you got rid of them more quickly than we did. 13 years of Labour here has been utterly disastrous and it is taking a darn sight longer than 6 months to address. It would help if Boris were PM rather than ‘call me Dave’ though.


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              Graeme No.3

              If ‘call me Dave’ doesn’t take drastic action about the electricity supply he will be out quicker than you would believe.

              There is no way the Conservatives can win an election as “the party that brought you blackouts”. Even if by a miracle they avoid them next year, they will still be campaigning as “the party that brought you expensive bills”.

              I look at the UK Energy Supply policy and lunacy is the only description possible. Boris has already started positioning himself against it. Partly to counter UKIP taking votes away from the Conservatives.

              The Conservatives had better watch out or they might get ‘nicked’.


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          Safetyguy66

          Oh your good, I have to hand it to you. Im pretty much a registered, card carrying Bastard. But to type the things you type and keep a straight face…..

          Your good.


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        Catamon

        [And Labor of course bear no responsibility for that at all, right?]

        Well, according to PM elect Abbott, no they dont. He declared that he will have a “Govt of no excuses”. Will be interesting to see the reaction here when he starts making them. :)


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          Mark D.

          Cat, he might have to once he finds out how badly botched your team left things. Undoubtedly worse than the press knows.


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          Roy Hogue

          As is his wont, Catamon makes completely useless comments.

          Cat, here’s your lesson in political science for today: there is no perfect political party or politician. So the only way to keep things working well is for the voters, whether it’s Australia or the States, to stay vigilant and get rid of those who screw things up the most. Yesterday Australia started the process of doing just that. And it appears to be a major upset for those who were getting it wrong.


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          Safetyguy66

          Your confusing him with Gillard the omniscient and Rudd the infallible champ.


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          Angry

          catamon===CATATONIC
          Try and give up the weed….


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          AndyG55

          You seem to have fur where your brain should be. !!


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    Speedy

    Abbott’s first actions as PM have been to start honouring his promises – to stop the boats and to axe the Tax.

    I like the man.

    Cheers,

    Speedy


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      Other_Andy

      “Mr Abbott has a packed agenda for his first 100 days in office. On the top of his agenda is rescinding the carbon tax.
      But senior Labor figures have warned they are unlikely to recognise his claimed mandate to axe the measure, and are likely to frustrate the measure if the Senate numbers allow it.”

      What a surprise.
      Labor sets up a carbon tax after promising there won’t be a carbon tax. The Libs campaign on abolishing the carbon tax and now Labor tells them they don’t have a mandate to scrap it?
      What planet do they live on?


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    Peter Miller

    Jo

    Well said, I almost feel sorry for the trolls who occasionally infect your website as Australia has so comprehensively dismissed their BS beliefs.

    Now we need the rest of the world to follow Australia’s example and toss alarmist ‘science’ into the dustbin of history, along with the similarly flawed theories of phlogiston and the Sun circling around the Earth.

    Note: I said “almost feel sorry”.


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  • #

    Labor is a complete and utter basket case of a party – its like watching a box full of snakes run out of rats to eat… They have perfected the art of utter single minded self interest and the voting public have rewarded their obsession with the mirrors in their minds. Their mindset is not rooted in reality, its somewhere south of the third star on the right..

    It would much rather prefer it if they completely and utter annihilated themselves in an orgy of wanton destruction and came out of it actually meaning something ‘real’ at the end of the day. It’s important we have a real alternative party in the Australia, not the mindless bumbling wasteful idiot of a Labor party we have at the moment.

    Politics is fundamentally about representation and NOT about the individuals in a given party; until Labor gets that into its head – its going nowhere fast.


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      MadJak

      EcoGuy,

      I agree with you entirely. Well put.


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      What they did was NOT in self interest. It was the expediency of the moment to grab the unearned so as to concentrate power over others in the short term. It looks as if it didn’t turn out so well for them – in the long run.

      The only real power they had was whatever was taken from the people who created the wealth they stole. They were incapable of creating it themselves. They had nothing beyond a club, knife, and gun in the hands of thugs. Even the clubs, knifes, and guns were provided to them by the creators of wealth. Finally, the thugs were given a NO! they could not evade.

      My comment is: it is about time but it did happen and that is good.

      Hopefully the NO! can be sustained long enough to stimulate a return to sanity.


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        Manfred

        Can’t help but think that they must loathe the necessity of an election. It’s their real Inconvenient Truth.


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          ianl8888

          That is why the ALP changed PM’s twice in 3 years

          Caucus really hoped in its’ cynicism that rebooting would avoid having to run on its’ record


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          Safetyguy66

          Totally correct Manfred. The intellectuals of the left are quite put out that they dont get to just keep helping this country with their supeiror knowledge and ideas without these pesky voters messing things up for them.

          “and we would have made it too if it wasnt for those pesky meddling voters.” K Rudd


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    NoFixedAddress

    Jo,

    Removal of the Carbon Tax will play out in the political arena and we will have to watch that unfold over whatever months it takes.

    As part of the ‘mountains to overcome’ the journey would be immeasurably enhanced if a Royal Commission or series of Royal Commissions could be established to lay bare,

    The extent of funding of any and all green investments from any source with particular reference to superannuation funds;
    The extent of losses incurred by superannuation funds from investing in ‘renewables’;
    Whether the Commonwealth Government is liable to make good any losses of members funds because of investments in ‘renewables’ and in particular the unfunded liabilities of the Melbourne University staff superannuation fund;

    Further,

    Every grid connected installation of solar electric panels and wind ‘farms’ to have a prominent plaque denoting the life time cost to electricity users and taxpayers;
    A disconnection from the grid of all ‘renewables’;
    The cessation of all ‘commercial in confidence’ government or statutory authority contracts;
    The publication by ‘industry’ super funds of all remunerations to individual directors and management;

    Renewables includes wind, solar, desalination plants, ‘hot rocks’… whatever.


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    Mattb

    “still about 47% of Australian’s still thought they deserved a vote*. How bad would this government have had to get?”

    Indeed. It makes interesting dinner conversation to ponder just how much the LNP may have won by had they not had Abbott as leader, actually had some policies, and not been so bloody negative for 6 years.

    Respect mandate… lol just like he did.

    Worth a try I guess, Rudd was going nowhere, but I doubt Abbott will get cut much slack if his performance as PM is as dire as his performance in opposition.


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      AndyG55

      Oh dear, you delude fool.

      Mr Abbott bought down Rudd, Gillard and now Rudd again.. Your heroes have been TRASHED !! :-)

      And he turned around a large defeat in just 6 years, something Turnbull never could have done.

      He was not negative, just SENSIBLE and PRACTICAL again extremely bad policy……. but you would never recognise the difference.


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    • #
      wayne, s. Job

      MattB, I have been around for 7 decades and the only constant that seems pervasive is the illogical thought processes of the left and their inability to see the forest for the trees.

      Matt the buffoons we have just rid ourselves of were the worst government in our history with the lowest primary vote ever. I expected never in my life to experience a worse government than Whitlam, The left seem to get worse the further the halcyon days of communism fade away. It was labour with Marxist Gillard joining the rump marxist party the greens and screwing us worse than Rudd that was the nail in their coffin. That Ms Gillard and half the labour party, unionists and some in the legal profession are of interest to the Victorian fraud squad, ICAC and fair work australia may have some bearing on it.

      Think logically Matt and believe nothing from the left , they are talk, spin and no substance, thus it has always been.


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    • #
      Winston

      What did Abbott have to be positive about?

      Their consistent unity of purpose? Their putting the prosperity of the nation ahead of their personal political ambitions and desire for revenge? Their transparency? The accuracy of their treasury forecasts? Their budgetary restraint and fiscal responsibility? Their judicious pruning of bloated bureaucracy? Their honesty before the 2010 election about their determination to introduce an unpopular Carbon Tax? Their dogged determination to weed out union corruption and prevent misuse of union member’s contributions for personal gain? The politeness and grace under pressure of Gillard? The modesty and self-effacement of Rudd? Their respectful consultative relationships with the Timorese, the Indonesians, the Malaysians and New Guineans?

      You mean being positive about those sort of things, Matt? Tony missed a few opportunities there to give credit where it’s due. Gosh, after reading that list, I sorta wished I had have voted for them. Perhaps I will next time, once the frontal lobotomy wound has healed of course.


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      Tim

      Can’t follow your copy/paste asterisk mate.

      “still about 47% of Australian’s still thought they deserved a vote* <<< asterisk?


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      • #
        Mattb

        what do you mean?


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      • #
        Eddie Sharpe

        ” * only 34% voted Labor on first preference, but 47% preferred Labor to the Coalition.”

        Meaning it was only 34 % that voted Labour. From what I understand many of the rest wouldn’t have even realised what way their vote would be reallocated.

        Only one third chose Labour, but Jo was giving them the full benefit of any doubt.

        Potentially 47% of the electorate demonstrates why education needs an overhaul.
        Bring back the classics, logic & critical thinking in the classrooms


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        • #

          To start, how about a good dose of Aesop’s Fables?

          The Wolf and the Lamb

          A WOLF, meeting with a Lamb astray from the fold, resolved not to lay violent hands on him, but to find some plea to justify to the Lamb the Wolf’s right to eat him. He thus addressed him: “Sirrah, last year you grossly insulted me.” “Indeed,” bleated the Lamb in a mournful tone of voice, “I was not then born.” Then said the Wolf, “You feed in my pasture.” “No, good sir,” replied the Lamb, “I have not yet tasted grass.” Again said the Wolf, “You drink of my well.” “No,” exclaimed the Lamb, “I never yet drank water, for as yet my mother’s milk is both food and drink to me.” Upon which the Wolf seized him and ate him up, saying, “Well! I won’t remain supperless, even though you refute every one of my imputations.”

          The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny.

          Translated by George Fyler Townsend. Aesop’s Fables (p. 15). Amazon Digital Services, Inc..


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          • #
            Eddie Sharpe

            Thank you Lionell.
            The problem is the new, dishonest, would be tyrants kid themselves they act on behalf of the victims, be it the poor, the third world, the animals, the plants or the Planet.

            The robber barons of old were rather less pretentious & more straightforward to deal with. Please them or lose your life whereas this lot would rather enslave you to feed them in the name of a false cause and pretend to be happy about it.


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          crakar24

          Ed,

          My son (first year Mech eng student) knows a first year chem eng student who had heard of Rudd but did not know what party he was from.

          Granted the kid spent last year in Denmark but seriously not know which party he was with!!!!!

          Most young uni students voted green (hug a tree stuff) Abbott is a misogynist (Gillards true legacy) with the ALP second (gay marriage, boat people etc).

          So they hedged their bets they wanted greens but just in case they picked green lite second.

          Most of them have no idea how the voting system works, a positive is that many of their votes cast were probably informal.


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    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      I think Abbott understands exactly where he stands with regard to the voters.

      Opposition is probably a difficult place to be useful, but he did succeed in a windfall election.

      I was very doubtful when John Howard got in too. But he surprised me. I hope you’re not so proud to say Abbott surprised you in 3 years time (assuming he does actualy succeed).


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  • #

    [...] POPULAR sceptical blogger, Jo Nova, has responded to Labor’s defeat in yesterday’s Australian federal election with the headline ‘Voters crush the carbon tax and corruption – worst Australian government gone’. [...]


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  • #

    Jaymez makes a comment that is relevant to the importance of pork-barrelling in the previous posting.

    Rudd was beaten in his own seat on primary vote by the Liberal National candidate Bill Glasson. It was only preferences which saved Rudd the ignominy of losing his seat. By comparison in the 2007 election Prime Minister John Howard easily out-polled Labor contender Maxine McKew on first preferences. It was only after adding Greens preferences that McKew was able to claim victory.

    Rudd retained his seat this weekend by appealing to others outside his party. John Howard did not appeal nearly so much to others outside his party. You have a large Green Party, who are to the left of Labor. Their second preferences can usually be relied upon. But the Greens have swallowed whole the climate dogma to such an extent that anyone who fails to profess their faith will lose second preference votes. In the British first-past-the-post system, the only choice is to vote tactically. So in a marginal seat, somebody who does not support either of the two main parties in that seat, has to choose the lesser of two evils.
    However, it could be that Labour could quietly water down its commitment to climate change, maybe by recognising the regressive nature of the carbon tax, and focusing of jobs being lost abroad. Also, the Universities, they could promote the idea of results-based research and giving opportunities to a new generation of academics who can challenge (in minor areas) the American dominance in original research. With a change in leadership, at the next election Labor can then leave the Greens with no place else to go.


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    • #
      Annie

      One begins to see the benefit of ‘first past the post’ which we have here. However, it isn’t absolutely ideal either, especially with unfair bounderies. The Conservatives can get many nmore votes overall than Labour yet still lose.


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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      I would not count on the Universities, they are part of the problem. They’ve steadily filled their ranks, especially in the Arts and Law area, with (to quote one who knew) Balmain basket weavers.

      In the old days Labor looked to the Unions for candidates. It was the people who had worked for a living and demonstrated their commitment and ability to their fellow members who got pre-selection. OK, you got a few dud ones, but by and large (as per Beazley Senior above) you got “the cream”.

      Now they get people who go from school to university to a union H.O. or hanger-on to a politician until they can squirm their way in parliament. They don’t know what goes on in the real world because they’ve never been there.


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      • #
        Truthseeker

        What we really need is to end the reign of the “professional politician”. These are people whose sole purpose is to enter politics and the real world is to be avoided, probably because they know they would fail at it.

        A simple way of doing this would be to not allow anyone from contesting an election once they have had 10 years (total) of being a sitting member at ANY level of government (local, state, federal). They can complete the current term but not start a new one once the 10 year mark had been achieved. This would force a regular turnover and mean that we would get a lot more candidates that had actual experience in the real world.


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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        They don’t know what goes on in the real world because they’ve never been there.

        I can vouch for that.

        Which is why they need people like me. :-)


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  • #
    Granny Smith

    Another Brit living in the UK but relatives in Sydney & Adelaide. So very pleased for you on your results. Like us you have suffered a Labour G’ment for too long. We are now slowly seeing the light in the UK With our coalition. May they also win the next General Election here.
    Looking forward to seeing how Tony Abbott performs.


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  • #
    Mattb

    In the wash up I can only assume that history will forget that the ALP also took a policy of getting rid of the carbon tax to the election.


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    • #
      Winston

      And I suppose that wouldn’t have anything to do with them subsequently opposing “getting rid of the carbon tax” immediately after the election, would it Matt? I think I would quit while I’m behind if I were you.


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      Eddie Sharpe

      Recasting it as a Carbon Trading scheme wouldn’t be getting rid.
      Australia has shown the Rudd-Green-Gillard-Rudd Government what getting rid means.


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      Safetyguy66

      Actually their policy was converting the fantasy tax to a fantasy trading scheme where we ship billions of dollars overseas to be wasted on things we cant even confirm will do any good.

      Great policy, I cant imagine why voters rejected it, especially considering how stupid Australians are right ?


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    • #
      AndyG55

      “history will forget that the ALP also took a policy of getting rid of the carbon tax to the election.”

      Well seeing as the ALP seem to have forgotten….

      …. why would anyone else even bother taking any credence at all of what they say.


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  • #
    Mattb

    At least the Dockers won!


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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      What! Did people actually vote for boat shoes?


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      • #
        Mattb

        Rereke try as I might I have no idea what boat shoes have to do with the mighty Freo Dockers.


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        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          What a cloistered life you must lead. Dockers are a premium brand of boat shoes, much loved, and often warn, by the rich and famous in Malibu, Cannes, Monarco, and such other places that I could not afford to live.


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        • #
          John Brookes

          ahh MattB, the only person here to allude to the most important thing to happen on the weekend. Freo beat Geelong!

          After that, watching a bunch of born-to-rule right wingers take over the nations parliament doesn’t seem very important at all.


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          • #

            After that, watching a bunch of born-to-rule right wingers take over the nations parliament doesn’t seem very important at all.

            Born to rule you say? So let us see who behaved like they were born to rule.

            The coalition chose Abbott in a democratic ballot. He won by a single vote and hasn’t look back since.

            Conversely, Labor did some back-room deals among faceless men to back-stab a first term prime minister and installed A PERSON OF THEIR CHOICE.
            As if that wasn’t enough, they repeated the act by doing a further back-room deal among faceless men to back-stab yet another first term prime minister and installed A PERSON OF THEIR CHOICE.

            If any party has behaved as if they’re born to rule, it’s been the Labor party (and I haven’t even mentioned the ousting of Bob Hawke by Paul Keating).

            John, I shouldn’t be surprised that you’d just repeat an old and tired meme about the Liberals thinking themselves ‘born to rule’ instead of looking past the meme and finding the facts for yourself, but I always held out hope for you, however forlornly.


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  • #
    Norman

    Unlees they get a majority in the senate the Carbox tax will not be abolished. The thing to do is do a double dissolution and really get rid of all greenies and dumbo independents forever with another but much more clear cut victory for Abott


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    • #
      Eddie Sharpe

      If the Senate continue to frustrate the will of the people, as so clearly demonstrated Saturday when given an unequivocal choice on this matter, then they need to be gone. Abbott has served notice. Will they need another reminder ?


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        farmerbraun

        Bring it on. NZ needs you. The Green Communist influence must be consigned to the dustbin of history. And you can have RED Russell Norman back anytime you like.


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        • #
          Manfred

          All very low key in Enzed. Leftygreen MSM tip toeing everywhere except the key reasons why KRudd was dumped. All in all quite nauseating.

          However, it’s going to be fun watching the carbon tax being repealed in Australia. I say this because the debate will ensure a fulsome airing of counterviews, the real science as opposed to the zeitgeist realpolitik progressive science, and all importantly to the empirical data.

          Given the coverage this will an mouthwatering moment of education for those that either don’t know or are evangelical in their CAGW belief. As greater numbers become informed so the extent of the deception will become known.

          It is over.


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  • #

    Congratulations!
    Way to go!
    Viva Australia!


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    Tim

    The revolutionist socialists have at last been put in their place. The Gillard ‘collectivism’ is totally opposed to our nation’s trusted ‘individualism’ and her party’s views on this are on record.

    Who would choose a communist–leaning government in Australia that assists China to acquire our assets?

    Congratulations to those Aussies with a thinking mind. (And to the others who simply smelled a rat.)


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    Roy Hogue

    Congratulations, Australia. :-)

    Now, of course, the winners must govern. Let us all pray that they’re up to the job because from where I sit it looks like a formidable task to undo the mess.

    But what a great start!


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  • #
    Paul Vaughan

    Simple fireworks to mark the occasion:

    Ocean Wave Height Annual Cycle Attractor = maximum Significant Wave Height (SWH) climatology = annual cycle map animation assembled using Australian Department of Defence images developed from data provided by the GlobWave Project


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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Only the Navy could have a “GlobWave” Project.

      I didn’t know Globs came in waves. But what do I know? That first animation is quite a trip, man.


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    crosspatch

    “In a sane world …”

    That right there is a very tall order. The way these “progressives” are manipulating education, media entertainment, and the information media, that world seems to be slipping more from our grasp each day. The “progressives” need to be eliminated at every level of government but local government is the most important. We need to get them out of our school boards, planning commissions, city councils, etc.


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    farmerbraun

    The battle lines have firmed up considerably this morning. We have had the (un)sound bites from the mad trotskyites of the NZ Green party – the “excesses of the climate change deniers” ; the “extremist” National government of John Key , who has signaled that if OZ bins the ETS then NZ will follow suit ; or as JOHN KEY delicately put it – “roll with the punch”. Haha! Nice one John . You know CER , economic harmonisation and all that.

    So the Green Communist party of NZ is pinning their hopes on the OZ Greens holding the balance of power in the Senate. If that happens then things will hot up, and that will be a good thing. There is a lot to be said for a double dissolution , and the Greens are stupid and angry enough to precipitate that if it is in their power to obstruct the canning of the ETS in OZ.

    Your move Tony.


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    farmerbraun

    It has become abundantly clear that Michael the (Sur) realist is a shill for the Greens ; check out its latest responses to Rereke Whakaaro and Farmer Braun. It is right out in the open now ; this is a political troll. Memory Vault was right to pour scorn on this despicable front for who-knows-who.


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  • #
    Mickey Reno

    Congratulations to Jo and her readers and to Australia in general for this inspiring election result. I guarantee you that politicians in the US and EU are watching and learning. I anxiously await the end of your oppressive carbon tax, and a return to the fiscal sanity of relatively lower cost energy.


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  • #
    farmerbraun

    It would be a very good thing indeed if Tony Abbott could discover, somewhat belatedly, that OZ cannot afford his Paid Parental Leave junket.

    That would open the way for Godzone to scrap the NZ Labour Party “Working For Families (Votes)”-

    wherein most families became welfare “beneficiaries”.

    It’s that age -old socialist meme that we have heard since the 1940s-

    “Give us your vote Jack- we’ll look after you”. ( “Oh and throw in your freedom , while you’re at it”).

    Sickening.


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    • #
      Tim

      Maybe I’m a tad cynical, but what if Tony knew it would not get through the Senate without a shave? Nice electoral sweetener that was erased by the bad guys.

      But that’s politics.


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    pattoh

    The sad part about all of this is we probably would not have even had Kevin07 if it was not for his sound -bite breakfast TV platitudes helpfully delivered by the early morning “Soft Shockjocks”.
    ( like the bald headed “Cool the Globe” Kochie)
    If the Greens could get Carbon Cate to stand as candidate they would get a dozen seats. That is the pathetic truth of it.
    Perhaps the world really needs the likely downstream effects of the quantitative easing & EU green policies to bloody well wake up.


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  • #
    michael hart

    It’s good to see that some politicians have realised there are votes for not having foolish ill-informed policies about carbon dioxide. Here’s to hoping that more of the same happens in the UK and US.


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  • #
    Brian G Valentine

    I wonder if Tim Flannery is now out of a job?

    Some idiotic University or lobby group will pick him up, for sure. Tim can advise them how to get around “denialists” and “obstructionists”


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  • #

    Congratulations, Australia!

    May the rest of the formerly free-West follow your lead.

    With kind regards,
    - Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo


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  • #
    Firey

    When the carbon protest went to Canberra Anthony Albanese said it was “the convey of no consequence”. Now we have a convoy of former labor members leaving Canberra. This is the true convoy of consequence.


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  • #
    handjive

    Back to work!

    Now to get this news in front of Abbott:

    Despite the original forecasts, major climate research centres now accept that there has been a “pause” in global warming since 1997.

    There has been a 60 per cent increase in the amount of ocean covered with ice compared to this time last year, they equivalent of almost a million square miles.

    A leaked report to the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) seen by the Mail on Sunday, has led some scientists to claim that the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until the middle of this century.

    If correct, it would contradict computer forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming.
    The news comes several years after the BBC predicted that the arctic would be ice-free by 2013.


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    • #
      Brian G Valentine

      Looking at the satellite records since the 1970′s, there never was any “global warming,” simply siting difficulties and UHI from ground temperature measurements.

      It’s all fraud, all the time.


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      • #
        Robert JM

        There was a warming in the 90s of about 0.4 deg.
        There was also a 5% decrease in cloud cover and an increase in OLR.
        Not surprisingly the three monkey brigade have not even bothered to look!


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        • #
          Brian G Valentine

          There was a warming in the 90s of about 0.4 deg.

          Nope. A large El Niño in 1987-1988, followed by a very large El Niño event 1997-1998 appeared to offset the baseline. That’s all there was to it.

          Period.


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      John Brookes

      Some scientists think we are heading for global cooling? Judith Curry, and some bloke I’ve not heard of. Did the article go for balance by talking to any scientists who hold contradictory opinions? There are an awful lot of them. It wouldn’t be hard to find them.

      Still the good bit is you guys will now be taking bets that each of the next few decades will be cooler than the last.


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    Michael

    There is so much tough competition for worst Australian government. Fraser’s government was certainly one of worst screwing over the poor in a time of high inflation- how successful was the Gillard-Rudd government at ripping off the poor.


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  • #

    Judas Priest, that was quick.

    Paul Howes is expected to fill the vacant Senate spot for NSW to take over from Senator Bob Carr, who is expected to announce his retirement following the election loss on Saturday.

    Parachuted in to do, well, whatever it was he did do, take the Number One position on the Senate ticket on Saturday just gone, and now see ya later.

    What a bloody ….. words just fail me.

    And now Paul Howes gets parachuted in.

    So much for party reform.

    Howes tipped to take Bob Carr’s Senate seat

    Like rats from a sinking ship.

    Are you angry. I bloody well am!

    Tony.


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    pat

    9 Sept: UK Express: Cyril Dixon: Global warming? No, the planet is getting cooler
    MORE than a million square miles of Arctic seas have frozen in the past year as a new environmental trend takes hold, dubbed “global cooling”.
    The extraordinary “reverse” of global warming has led to a 60 per cent rise in ice-covered ocean. Just six years ago, some scientists were predicting that all of this ice would have melted away by 2013…
    UN chiefs have now planned a crisis meeting and a pre- summit gathering next month…
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/427980/Global-warming-No-the-planet-is-getting-cooler

    just replace “global warming” with Syria & this could be the MSM’s argument for war!

    8 Sept: Washington Post: Editorial Board: The dangerous effects of global warming
    Not every instance of bad weather is related to global warming. Of the 12 extreme weather events scientists studied, experts saw evidence of a climate-change component in only half…
    These findings, often expressed in percentages and probabilities, aren’t as satisfying as sure proof linking one effect to one clear cause. Get used to it…
    These knowns and unknowns are why humans shouldn’t just adapt but head off excessive future warming by reducing greenhouse-gas emissions now.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-dangerous-effects-of-global-warming/2013/09/08/14a96d62-1721-11e3-be6e-dc6ae8a5b3a8_story.html


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    handjive

    Faster Please!

    Flakes of Graphene can now be handled with lasers to make new classes of devices and access new physics.

    Graphene is an emerging class of two-dimensional (2D) material with unique electrical properties and a wide range of potential practical applications.
    Physicists have known for some time now that graphene has extraordinary electronic and mechanical properties.
    They’ve now spent a decade or so getting to grips with this.

    Graphene is itself a reasonable superconductor so an interesting question is whether its superconducting temperature could be raised by stacking graphene sheets in certain ways or by alternating the sheets with other materials.

    It’s this kind of thinking that raises the tantalising prospect that van der Waals heterostructures will be able to exploit previously inaccessible physics.

    And that is just the beginning.


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    pat

    9 Sept: UK Sun: Global Cooling: GOOD news for polar bears! The Arctic ice pack is 60 per cent BIGGER than it was a year ago
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/5124775/Arctic-ice-pack-is-now-60-bigger-than-a-year-ago.html


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    • #
      Eddie Sharpe

      I don’t know if anyone believes what they read in The Sun but it certainly is mainstream with more circulation than any other UK paper and about as much as the Daily Mail, it’s nearest rival, and the Daily Express has put together.


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      crakar24

      Do you think the simple minded fools will care more if the Arctic was not ice free this summer or if the north west passage remained blocked with sea ice all summer.

      Which of these two facts will enable then to wake up to the scam or will they simply trot out that old line about “its the trend, its the trend”.

      The only trend i see here is the longer these idiots maintain the faith the stupider they look.


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    pat

    i only single out abc because it is taxpayer-funded.

    on election nite, way past the Rudd/Abbott speeches, on abc brisbane (tho maybe nationally, who knows?) i had to listen to three hourly news breaks before the news led with Coalition has won the election.

    the first of the breaks led with Abbott acknowledged Rudd & played that line only from Abbott’s speech; then went to fremantle to celebrate Labor win.

    second news break led with Labor besides themselves over how well they did rah rah. then over to Adam Bandt saying his win showed voters were fed up with the major parties!

    between the news breaks, the election coverage sounded like a GetUp post-election party. they ended by chatting to the ABC host coming up in an hour’s time (country music inbetween) with the host talking about questions to be asked – who will lead the Labor Party now, AND WHO WILL LEAD THE LIBERALS? slightly nervous laughter from the GetUp-sounding lot, & then the upcoming host says everyone wants Turnbull to take over.

    heard a little of the later program, with the public being asked to phone in about the election & before one caller could start, the host asked, why do people dislike Tony Abbott so much? what he should have asked is “why do i dislike Tony Abbott so much?”

    the ABC needs a clean-out.


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    pat

    ABC Brisbane sunday nite was worse. again, the program may have been heard outside Brisbane. under the guise of religion, & going on for hours, this strange man, Noel Debien (replacement for John Cleary?), devoted hours to Rudd’s “slavery” remark to the priest/pastor whatever (i never saw any of this stuff in the first place). the final hour – One O’clock Chat Room – Debien had some religious academic from West Australia. Debien begins by asking how the election went. went really well for Labor, she says, & goes on & on in great detail, precisely as if she were a Labor Party operative. then on & on about cuts to foreign aid being so cruel & even suggestions it is un-Christian, & surely Abbott as a Christian knows it. Debien – as with so many at ABC – seems anti-Catholic (read anti-Abbott), see his articles here to get the picture:

    http://blogs.abc.net.au/localradio/sunday-nights/

    how’s this – 8 out of 10 are about the election, with only one having Coalition in the headline; the remaining two articles are about sport!

    Stories from 08 September, 2013 on ABC Brisbane (10 items)
    Clive Palmer set to win Sunshine Coast seat
    Police probe death of man arrested at Brisbane polling booth
    Qld Premier Campbell Newman hopes Coalition’s election win means no more ‘green tape’
    Swan to hold Lilley and remain backbencher
    Union movement predicts difficult future in Qld
    Slight swing to Labor in Brisbane seat of Moreton
    Labor avoids depth of losses feared
    Kevin Rudd concedes defeat
    http://www.abc.net.au/brisbane/archives/?date=2013/09/08


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    credirt

    strange… I like this site and commentors…buuut I do get the feeling that many are trapped in a bipartisan noose (I.e. labor = the devil; and coalition = saviours). Remember, Rudd was supposed to destroy work choices, but implemented ‘work choices lite’. Expect more of the same with the new govt. Little concessions, but the agenda increments on


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      labor = the devil; and coalition = saviours

      And your point is?

      Labour has been shown to lie, most times they open their collective mouth, and in Gillard’s case she didn’t even need to do that.

      The coalition has yet to say anything significant, so right now, they are ahead on points.


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    pat

    wouldn’t be surprised:

    on Bolt’s Tips, tunafish says:

    — On ABC Overnights radio show Sunday morning 8-9-2013 just after 3am.
    while Rod Quinn was discussing the election with Jen Kerrison of the BBC,
    I swear I heard Rod Quinn say the following
    or something very similar-

    “The ABC doesn’t employ you if you don’t vote for Labour”

    http://www.abc.net.au/overnights/

    Later that day when I checked the ABC Overnights webpage that posts the previous mornings show as streaming audio,
    the 3am to 4am segment had been replaced
    with a different days’ segment. and any reference to Jen Kerrison had been removed
    from the information section.

    I swear, I am not making this up.—-


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    crakar24

    Well the drums of war regarding Syria are starting to die down as the Peace maker is made to look like a fool (again) we find the real culprit is AGW, i kid you not

    http://www.opednews.com/articles/Climate-Change-Will-Create-by-Louallen-Miller-Drought_Flood_Military_Resources-130908-727.html

    By the way did you know your overlords are really just a bunch of tin pot dictators probably worse than Assad? Really they are, just do a quick head count of all the innocent deaths they have created and throw in a bit of “spying on your own citizens” for good measure and compare.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/privacy-scandal-nsa-can-spy-on-smart-phone-data-a-920971.html


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      Ian Hill

      One thing Bolt mentioned is that the Greens lost a quarter of their vote. However, I bet that over half the people who voted for them at the last election did not do so this time. Considering that they appeal to the young people the Greens would have “recruited” many people voting for the first time. Even that wasn’t enough to keep their level up though.


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        Mattb

        As a greens voter myself, what you’ll find is that for the last few elections the greens got both greens voters and protest voters. This election offered a smorgasbord of suitable homes for the protest vote eg PUP, Katter and the rest… so no great surprise that the vote is down. Also you’d have had voters who were Liberal but hated Howard and could not bring themselves to vote ALP, and then last time Liberals who hated Rudd. THis time they figured maybe they liked Abbott a tad more I guess.


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    steve

    Jo

    How about an asrticle covering the cost of a carbon tax vs an Abbott inspired ETS?

    I saw pricing from NZ where an ETS in the long run was *way* more expensive than a carbon tax.

    Can someone please calrify this, or was it just an NZ wobble in the fabric of space & time that produced such figures?

    Either way – an ETS or carbon tax – why would we need either scheme considering there is no climate change?

    Oddly, why would abbott suggest an ETS uless he part of the same borg collective that the labor is part of?

    This needs ot be quickly addressed, before we are saddled with something even worse than a carbon tax.

    A new article perhaps?

    Thoughts welcome.


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      Mattb

      abbott’s not proposing an ETS. An ETS is however cheaper than a tax that achieves equivalent CO2 reductions. That is fairly basic economic truth… although use of the word “cheap” is debatable I suppose depending on your perspective.

      Abbott is proposing direct action, which also looks more expensive for the equivalent CO2 reduction, but he’s said “here’s the budget it will recuce what it is able to” so it will be cheaper and I’m sure that many will prefer it be cheap than it achieve what it is supposedly intended to achieve.


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        crakar24

        Once again Matt what was the ets designed to achieve? Just by how much was the ETS supposed to reduce global temps?

        Dont bother attempting to answer simply because there is no answer, the ets sole purpose was to control, control the use of power and we were but a hairs breadth away from handing that power over to a bunch of unelected EU bankers.

        This clear fact still has not dawned on the simple minded morons of this country, Liberals direct action was/is a myth it was designed to fool morons that dont like the labor/green alliance but still believe in the idiotic fallacy of AGW.

        Sure he will plant a few trees until the money runs out but from this day forth consider Australia has walked away from any international treaty related to climate change/global warming.

        Now go have a cry in the corner you stupid foolish loser.


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          MemoryVault

          . . . from this day forth consider Australia has walked away from any international treaty related to climate change/global warming.

          It is a pity nobody got around to telling Greg Hunt.

          According to the new Minister for Climate Change just last week, his first order of business is going to be to arrange a meeting between the USA, the EU, China and India, to thrash out the basis of a workable international treaty related to climate change/global warming.


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            his first order of business is going to be to arrange a meeting between the USA, the EU, China and India, to thrash out the basis of a workable international treaty related to climate change/global warming.

            If I was climate change minister and needed to back out of the AGW corner, I too would propose a meeting between that lot to ‘thrash out’ the basis of a workable int. treaty knowing that China and India won’t go for it and the ‘meeting’ would become ‘meetings’ after ‘meetings’ with no end result. That is, appear to be doing all you can knowing nothing will get done which is what you want.

            Then you can wring your hands and say “look I’ve done all I can and am still trying with all my powers”.

            I think you’ve been way off the mark this election MV. Not long ago you gave KRudd a chance. I said it’ll be a (from memory) 8-10 seat win to Abbott unless KRudd melts down in which case it’d be a landslide. KRudd did melt down beginning with the NT tax proposition, then the garden Island shift then finally the $10b black hole debacle. the polls went from close to 50-50 at the beginning of the election to a landslide by the end.

            We need to give Abbott a chance.

            By the way, it’s irrelevant what Hunt the environment minister thinks or wants done. If the treasurer and finance minister don’t give him any funds, he can’t do much. HE WON’T BE GETTING ANYMORE THAN THE MINIMUM NECESSARY TO APPEAR TO BE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT AGW.


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              MemoryVault

              I’m not going to argue with you, Baa.

              If you honestly think that the way for Australia to crawl out of the slime of the cesspit of the last six years of government lying, spinning the truth, fabricating reality, and “seeming” rather than doing, is for the new government to indulge in EXACTLY the same kind of behaviour, then so be it.

              Personally, I think the average Australian, of whatever political persuasion – except Greens – has now seen through such behaviour, and punished it accordingly. I have no doubt that they will have equally no trouble in recognising such behaviour for what it is in the new government, should they choose to go down that path.

              .
              I happen to think the results of this election show, more than anything else, that a large and increasing number of Australians are looking for a bit of simple, blunt honesty in their politics, bereft of all the bullshit and spin. Rightly or wrongly that is what they believed they would get by voting for all the minor and micro parties that have done so well.

              My dilemma is that I happen to agree with you: – I believe that Hunt and Coalition are about to go down exactly the same road as you describe. Not just with Climate Change, but with a whole host of contentious issues. Lots of “seeming”, and SFA “doing”.

              And if they do that, come 2016, they will be as popular with the electorate as Gillard/Rudd in 2013, with much the same result.


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                gytrr1

                I happen to think the results of this election show, more than anything else, that a large and increasing number of Australians are looking for a bit of simple, blunt honesty in their politics, bereft of all the bullshit and spin. Rightly or wrongly that is what they believed they would get by voting for all the minor and micro parties that have done so well.

                I agree with … But to add to it, I think we’re chasing the politician that believes in what they say, the genuine person who believes in what they say (too many JD’s to remember the term)


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          Mattb

          for all your thumbs up and my thumbs down… I actually answered Steve’s question – whcih is that there is no such thing as this Abbott inpsired ETS.

          You appear to have 5 thumbs up for an incoherent rant which kinda doesn’t address any point at all.


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        ExWarmist

        Any form of attempted mitigation of climate change is far more expensive than adaption (if and/or when it is required) to climate change.

        Your policy position is an attack on the worlds poor and on the worlds productive peoples, for the benefit of the already powerful and wealthy who will clip the trading commissions or consume the tax funded payoffs.


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          Mattb

          Oh bullshit. How is 6b from the foreign aid budget anything but a direct attack on the world’s poor?


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            Your position is that we taxpayers are attacking the world’s poor by not budgeting foreign aid. The principle you project is that NOT doing something for someone is an attack.

            Following that logic, you have not budgeted anything to support me so that means you are attacking me. I should be able to slap you with a restraining order to cease and desist the attack. Then if you fail to budget my support, I can put you in jail for violating the court order and add the charge of assault and battery for your continued attack.

            Perhaps your use of the word “attack” isn’t the same as it is for every other speaker of the language. If so, please explain how NOT doing something for another can be an attack.


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              Mattb

              lionell, sorry, that is a terrible application of logic.


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                Well, it is YOUR logic after all.

                Did you say what you meant and mean what you said or not?

                Which is it. Does NOT doing something for another constitute an attack or not? If so, how is it an “attack”?


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                Mattb

                go to bed old man.


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                I see. You make an off the wall, totally illogical statement and then don’t have the courage to back it up nor the honesty to admit it.

                It fits you well.


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                Mattb

                oh rubbish Lionell… you are nitpicking. It is absurd to suggest that me not making you breakfast this morning is an attack on you. If I’d promised you that I’d come over and make you breakfast and then at 8am I rang you up and told you you were an idiot and you could stuff your breakfast… then maybe you’d have a point.

                your initial comment is in itself a logical absurdity. Sorry mate, that’s just how it is.


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                You were the one who made the assertion:
                “How is 6b from the foreign aid budget anything but a direct attack on the world’s poor?”

                Explain how this is a “direct attack”. It isn’t even an indirect attack. It is simply NOT doing something that someone else wants.


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                Bob Cormack

                Lionell Griffith (to MattB):

                Did you say what you meant and mean what you said or not?

                It’s pretty clear by now: MattB says things for their immediate effect, sort of like you would use a fog horn while navigating in zero visibility. It’s too much to expect him to actually consider the logical implications of such random emissions.

                Unfortunately, he’s typical of Leftist politicians.


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                Angry

                Mattb, what an arrogant ignorant [snip. settle gretel. mod oggi]

                Your communist mates were destroyed last Saturday.

                Get the f.ck over it sunshine !!


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              Bob,

              This I understand. I was simply exposing him, once again, for what he is. He uses words as weapons rather than tools of understanding and communication. He responded as I had expected based upon several years of observation and interaction on Jo’s blog.

              Being a progressive means never to have to say you are sorry for what you have said. Words are shape shifters that are to morph to fit the circumstance of the moment. Their words do not relate to anything outside of their ephemeral intent. That words mean things – real things – is beyond their ability to comprehend.


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                Mattb

                I do hope people read the thread that exposes you as a fool Lionell. Just keep repeating crap I guess some will believe your absurd views.


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                I will leave it to the readers to decide for themselves who is the absurd one here.


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                Truthseeker

                Mattb – This is one reader who sees that you have been “pwned” in this argument by Lionell. You have used emotive language to try to project guilt on an action that you do not agree with. Lionell has countered with clear logic and used a valid analogy to show that your assertion is completely incorrect and your projection of guilt has no basis whatsoever. In response you avoid the issue of the incorrect language altogether which is very much the re-direction tactic used by the left when they have cornered themselves.

                You will find that the readers of this exchange will know precisely who is making a fool of themselves. Keep going, you are only digging the hole deeper and deeper.


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                Mark D.

                Very well said Truthseeker.

                Careful folks, Mattb is on the brink. He’s liable to explode at any moment.

                Lots of sore losers around.


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                Mattb

                lol on the brink:)


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                It is a good thing to follow the first law of holes; if you are in one, stop digging.
                [1988 D. Healey Observer in J. Care (ed.) Sayings of the Eighties]


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            AndyG55

            Because most of it never made it to the poor anyway. !! That’s why, oh dopiest of drones.


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            Streetcred

            and you’re certain that it is going to the world’s poor or into the bank account of a despot ? … besides, the increase in the previous non-government’s foreign aide was nothing more than the payolla for the UN Security seat. Now, situation back to normal and no need to enrich the despots of the world at the expense of the poor … the poor who are being denied access to energy let alone cheap energy by the warmista Taliban of the world … included in this is the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank who won’t finance any energy projects that do not use wind or solar (which are great out on the plains of Africa where there is a service centre behind every thorn tree. /sarc.)


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            ExWarmist

            I’m sorry Mattb – I just don’t see the connection between the Foreign Aid budget and the point that I was making about the relative merits of Mitigation/Adaption, and how the rush to mitigation really does deprive the worlds poor of progress and wealth, and imposes costs on the productive while enriching those that can put themselves inbetween the ideology and the cash.

            May I acquaint you with the concept of the Non Sequitur and with a walking example being Ralph Wiggum

            Unless, of course, you were simply misdirecting the course of the thread away from a topic that you know is correct, but which you wish wasn’t.

            Ref: Topher 50 to 1 Project


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              Mattb

              Warmist the reference to the $6b was not intended as a tit for tat, rather it was a “don’t take the moral high ground” on “attack(s) on the worlds poor”… “for the benefit of the already powerful and wealthy”.

              as the LNP has clearly taken a policy (with less than 48 hours notice) to an election to slash the aid budget. Which is far more tangible than your alleged attack posed by an ETS which is steeped in conspiracy.


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                ExWarmist

                Hi Mattb,

                An ETS by it’s very nature as a trading framework produces commissions on each transaction for the entities hosting those transactions.

                That is hardly a conspiracy.

                A world wide ETS would create a commodity market for “CO2″ emissions that would dwarf all other commodity markets, and generate 100s of Billions of dollars per year in transaction commissions.

                It is simply the monetisation of the “right to emit CO2″. Which creates a brand new market for an object “the right to emit CO2″ that did not previously exist.

                Those people who are productive (CO2 emitters in size) will pay for the whole process.

                Those people who are poor (minimal CO2 emissions) will be blocked from advancing their wealth, health & prosperity.

                Those people in a position to clip the commissions will make out like bandits for as long as the system itself lasts.

                You don’t need a “conspiracy” to explain corporate greed.


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            Andrew McRae

            Lionell misrepresented your position, though his statement was right when considered independently. The ethical disposition of withdrawal of previously supplied and promised charity is not quite so clear cut, so I’ll dodge it for now. Instead I have a symmetrical question for you.

            Ideally they shouldn’t need aid at all. How is making the world’s poor more dependent on $6B of handouts anything but an attack on their self-respect and sustainability? They won’t learn to fend for themselves for as long as they don’t have to.

            Charity begins in the home and cutting foreign aid to balance the budget now and reduce the interest repayments on the national debt will eventually result in a financial position that is far better able to comfortably donate to charitable causes in the future.
            So why do you hate future generations so much that you would want to deny them such aid?
            :)
            Surely you would not suggest that the needs of the real and the living should take priority over the imagined needs of the future unborn?

            Pssst! I know a secret but I won’t tell. What nobody seems to have noticed here is that you can’t establish the Greens’ innocence by proving the guilt of the Liberals. It’s a logical fallacy. But don’t worry, your secret rhetorical tactic is safe!


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              Andrew McRae

              Gah! The hivemind strikes again! Correction to the above, in the 20 minutes between refreshing the page and posting my comment your rhetorical secret was discovered by ExWarmist.


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              Mattb

              “Ideally they shouldn’t need aid at all. How is making the world’s poor more dependent on $6B of handouts anything but an attack on their self-respect and sustainability?”

              if that is your starting point re: aid then why do you think:
              “Charity begins in the home”

              Surely that just increases the dependency of those at home?

              We already redistribute funds between the states here in Australia, so do you want that banned too?

              “you can’t establish the Greens’ innocence by proving the guilt of the Liberals”… maybe not but I can use it to identify hypocrisy from a poster.


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                Andrew McRae

                Okay you got me, I don’t fully believe that “charity begins in the home” fairy tale. But I would emphasise it’s the expectation of charity that does the damage of fostering dependency. Charity is fine when it appears unexpectedly. I believe the recipients of our foreign aid are indeed expecting more as a continuation of a budget they know exists.

                And yeah the LNP response must look hilarious from your point of view.
                “We weren’t convinced man-made global warming was ever going to lead to any people in the developing world becoming impoverished and dying, so we made sure of it by cutting the foreign aid budget.” :D Even I can see the funny side to that.

                But your accusation of hypocrisy is ill-founded as the skeptic argument has been that if any loans are going to be made to developing countries, it should be for the infrastructure to produce energy cheaply, a loan that will decrease dependency, and that is exactly what the UN, World Bank, and Greens are opposing. It’s the UN/Green symbiosis who are hypocritical on their concern for the plight of the developing world. The foreign aid case is not an example of skeptic hypocrisy about charity to the developing world. Firstly, a development loan isn’t charity, it’s credit to be repaid, whereas foreign aid is certainly charity and charity not well spent in some cases by the sounds of it.
                Secondly, it’s the LNP that are doing that, and they aren’t entirely what we would call “climate skeptics” by their current rhetoric, though the odds seem slightly better.

                Nonetheless, when several western nations are staring down the barrel of enormous amounts of debt (public + private), fixing up our own balance sheet and economy now and making foreign aid more cost-effective is still the lesser of two evils in the long run, for the same reason I said previously.


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              “The ethical disposition of withdrawal of previously supplied and promised charity is not quite so clear cut, so I’ll dodge it for now.”

              To clear the ethical smog, consider the following questions:

              How is a politician promising a gift from wealth taken by force (aka taxes) from those who earned it an act of charity?

              How is returning the wealth taken by force to those who earned it anything but justice?

              Is not taking the unearned by force itself the attack rather than refusing to make a gift of the unearned taken by force from those who earned it?

              How is it that the fact that someone who does not create wealth grants to him an undeniable claim on the wealth created by others?

              Why are not the fundamental natural rights of EACH individual to HIS life, HIS liberty, and HIS pursuit of happiness the starting point consideration in the matter of taxes and the involuntary “charity” of politicians promising foreign aid?


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                Andrew McRae

                You’re now (for the first time in this thread) calling into question tax itself. We were assuming all other factors are equal and were just concerned about how the tax is spent.
                Those are all good questions (the answers are democracy, democracy, yes, and democracy) and even as rhetorical questions I have little quarrel with them, but they don’t clear the fog because they are independent of how tax money is spent so they are irrelevant to MattB’s contention. To argue otherwise is to engage in monetary homeopathy in which money somehow remembers where it came from and becomes less effective to the recipient if it came from coercive taxation.
                As an individual voluntary donor you face the same degree of ethical fog as the elected foreign minister does with regards to withdrawing a previously regular and expected donation.


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                Then your concern is not about the ethics of the situation. In fact, it appears you have an unexamined ethics that controls your decisions.

                The ethical smog comes from the general assumption that the good is the good for other and that self is inherently evil. This is in direct conflict with the fact that to create wealth and use it to do good for others it takes a long term and significant interest in self (learning, practice, focus on return on investment, and effective production). Then and only then can you achieve the good by sacrificing your self interest and previously earned wealth for the sacred *other* thereby negating all that has gone before.

                The implicit question in my list was: if it is not good to take care of yourself, how is it good to take care of another? In fact, doesn’t it destroy their ability to be good? Thus to do good you must first be evil and then force the object of your goodness to be evil as well. THIS is the inherent contradiction in the current politically correct ethics.

                Rather than being ethical fog it truly is ethical smog – a fog with major amounts of toxic components.


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                Andrew McRae

                Once again you misrepresent people’s opinions to create an enemy where none exists and to valiantly defeat strawmen. You assume my charity is given at great personal cost rather than take note of my earlier observation that it should only come from a comfortable surplus. You aren’t comprehending what people actually write. You then imply my conclusion – that getting our own budget in order enables more painless charity in the future – whilst somehow believing you’ve argued against it. No rational discussion is possible with you today.
                Good day to you, sir.


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                Mark D.

                Andrew, re-read the whole transcript. You are more the fool for taking this tact.

                Perhaps your young mind has been bent by surrealists such that you don’t see the obvious in front of you?

                For a hint: Government cannot extort charity. Never, never, never, never never, never, never…….

                GET IT?


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          Dave

          MattyB,

          The How is 6b cut from the foreign aid budget is great anything but a direct attack for Australia’s on the world’s poor?


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            Mattb

            Dave… did you see any increased budget spending for Australia’s poor? Regardless you’re shifting the goalposts… it was ExWarmist who was lamenting the world’s poor.


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              Dave

              MattyB,

              Kevin Rudd’s White Paper fixed all this when he implemented it in 2008.

              Kevin’s The Road Home spent over $2 billion and resulted in a reduction an increase of homless people by 23% in Australia. Kevie said it was Tanya Plibersek’s fault as she was Minister for Housing at the time.

              Well done ALP and MattyB. Sort of the same story across every policy they touched.


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              ExWarmist

              … and the world’s productive people. (let’s not forget them)

              I.e. those people who produce real goods and services that other people would volunteer to purchase.

              I.e. actors in the real economy.


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          Rereke Whakaaro

          I tried to discuss the principle of adaption with Michael the “Whatever”. His world view seemed to be that organising a program of adaption to climate change, was much more difficult than organising action to prevent climate change from occurring.

          His view, is one of central planning for everything, and from that perspective, he is probably correct.

          So if people like Michael “Whomever” ever get into power, we will have to ensure that 2.00pm to 4.30pm on Saturday afternoons, is reserved for mandatory organised spontaneity.


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        Safetyguy66

        “An ETS is however cheaper than a tax that achieves equivalent CO2 reductions”

        Ive read a lot of your posts Matt, you don’t seem like an idiot to me, but seriously man how can you say that ?

        How do we verify the efficacy of the overseas schemes we have to buy credits in? Your statement is either unbelievabley optimistic or incredibly naive, Im not sure which.

        As we have seen with the fantasy tax, the fantasy trading scheme will only guarantee one thing, higher prices and higher unemployment in Australia. Businesses will default to the cheapest solution or combination of solutions which will likely be (as it is now) a combination of laying people off, raising prices and paying the tax. Reducing emissions will only happen when emissions reduction technology for their business is the most economically viable option for them. When you consider for example Brisbane City Council is one of the top level victims of the tax, it doesn’t take a Rhodes Scholar to work out how they will pay that tax, the same way councils pay for everything, by raising rates and charges. So yet another double whammy on the very people that the Labour Government who should be protecting those workers chose to ignore them instead.

        I really do applaud your devotion to your cause, but I despair at your lack of understanding of the basics of market forces.


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          Dave

          But Safetyguy66,

          MattyB is in a area where his Local Councillors voted for free electric recharge stations for EV owner residents of the area. Not only that, they give them free parking and charging at the Mt. Lawley car-park on Barlee Street. Which is apparently empty most of the time except for Councillors and UWA EV car owners.

          So all the ratepayers pay for Greenies to recharging and parking, where most of the EV’s have been provided free to various institutions (eg UWA).

          I think City of Vincent could do with a few Tony Abbotts instead of Greg Hunts in the chamber.

          MattyB’s view on the world is clouded by Green snout in green trough disease.

          Wonder who the d*ckhead Councillors were, that voted this garbage in?


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            Mattb

            BTW DAve the electrical recharge points were installed for free, and as you say in a slightly underused carpark, so no great cost to anyone.

            Hint… EV charge point trials… they’re called Direct Action!


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              Dave

              MattyB

              Questions:
              1. Are you a Councillor on the Vincent council?
              2. Free installation, who was the contractor?
              3. Free power supply, what is it solar?
              4. Market Forces 101 (renamed from geothermal 101), is that by Flannery?
              5. Slightly underused = give it to the GREENS? Where’s the business plan on this?


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                AndyG55

                take 30 paces back so Matt can understand


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                Streetcred

                Here’s your man, Dave … what a dork … no manifesto and no idea going forward.

                Get a hair cut son, and get a real job.


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                Greg Cavanagh

                These appear to be the recharge sites.
                http://www.vincent.wa.gov.au/Services/Environment_Sustainability/TravelSmart/Electric_Vehicle_-_Vincent_Charge_Stations

                Which means, there is one parking space usable by one charge station, at two locations in the shire (maps on the page).

                So yea, these things would have cost bugger all to install. Perhaps a maximum of $3000 each including hooking it up Energex power supply.


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                Dave

                Thanks Greg,

                Just looking at the details, the Vincent ones are mentioned as fast charge.

                A normal charge pole outlet supply only is about $3,990 plus shipping ex South Australia, plus installation, plus power line connection (underground), and hook up. Plus ongoing power bills.

                A fast charge up to 50kw post outlets start at $25,000 plus all the other costs above.

                I don’t know enough about the requirements, but I thought anything around and above 20 KW was 3 phase especially if fast charge. And once you get into 3 phase, the cost of installation and supply line, goes up dramatically. I did ask MattyB what these cost, but he said they cost nothing. But then again he’s a politician. The Town of Vincent (or what ever the joint is called) installed these as a trial of some form, so they should have costings that can be provided for real world installation. Do energex or the equivalent power supply companies offer separate KWh rate for EV recharging etc, similar to pool and hot water off peak.

                This is the website that provides EV car park charging stations, and they have the prices of all the different units, and I must admit they are cheaper than I first thought, until you get into carparks & fast charge.

                http://www.e-station.com.au/index.html


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              AndyG55

              “so no great cost to anyone”

              except the taxpayer or local ratepayer……

              Gee you really are THICK !!!!!


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                Mattb

                no – no great cost to ANYONE!!!!!!


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                AndyG55

                yeah.. installed for free. ..

                contractors didn’t get paid anything,
                components unpaid for by anyone.
                Is that what you are telling us?

                Someone paid for the gear, and someone paid the contractor to install it.

                And someone is paying for any electricity supplied and for maintenance and running costs.


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              crakar24

              Matt,

              I know a guy on the Gawler council and if you had a twin brother it would be him, he is a green voter with flights of fancy dreams about the utopian world just like you.

              He ran for election on the basis of trying to stop 50 acres of farming paddocks being turned into a housing developement, got elected, got on the panel to decide whether the project went ahead and promptly voted it in!!!!

              Anyway he tried to get the council to build one of those recharge points, it was rejected on the basis that only one person in Gawler (approx 200,000 people) had an electric car. Dont suppose you would hazard to guess who that one person was?

              That was 12 months ago and now he has been caught up in some dodgy dealings elsewhere, i doubt he will get re elected he is like all you green morons….ulterior motives Matt thats what drives you arseholes, so whats yours?


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          Mattb

          “but I despair at your lack of understanding of the basics of market forces.”

          As I say, it is absolute basics of market forces 101.


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        Safetyguy66

        Additionally have you not worked out why the coalition has a policy at all?

        They only have a policy for the purposes of sucking in idiots who believe its important to have a policy. Why abandon those voted when you can just buy them?

        Wise up man…


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        AndyG55

        The very best DIRECT ACTION to reduce Australia’s CO2 output (which is a meaningless gesture anyway) would be to update all coal fired power stations to modern standards and get rid of all renewable subsidies and feed-in tariffs.

        This would in turn reduce electricity prices thus helping industry to re-establish or at least survive.


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        manalive

        The electorate has firmly rejected the carbon tax but if individuals like Mattb feel they need to cut their emissions to near zero then I fully support their choice, it’s a free country.
        Incidentally, it’s often mentioned by CAGW enthusiasts that Australia has one of the highest per capita CO2 emission numbers.
        What is rarely mentioned is that we also have the second highest number of trees or area of forest per capita (after Canada).


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        Joe V.

        he’s said “here’s the budget it will recuce what it is able to” so it will be cheaper and I’m sure that many will prefer it

        At last, there is a real incentive for Greenies to work efficiently, to make that budget go as far as possible to abate as much of that deadly CO2 as at all possible or will they just continue to whinge ?


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    thojak

    Congrats to you all in Oz! Finally some common sense seem to have re-entered the scene, just great!
    The ‘happening’ in Australia is also recognized here in Sweden, link:

    http://www.klimatupplysningen.se/2013/09/07/australien-rostade-emot-koldioxidskatt/

    I’d only wish that we could have a ‘Abbot-alternative’ here at our general election in 2014…

    Brgds from Sweden
    //TJ


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    WheresWallace

    Most voters voted for a party other than the Libs. Just sayin.


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      Hmm, Wallace,

      That being the case, then we could say that even more voters voted for a party other than Labor. Just sayin.

      Tony.


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      Heywood

      Most voters voted for a party other than Labor.
      Most voters voted for a party other than the Greens.
      Most voters voted for a party other than the Palmer United Party.
      Most voters voted for a party other than Katter.
      Etc etc.

      What is your point? Do you even have one?


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      AndyG55

      90 odd seats to the Lib/Nats in the HOR to about 60 for Lab/greens..

      Just sayin’ !!


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      Andrew McRae

      There is every opportunity in our system for any party to gain an unambiguous clear majority on primary vote. Differing interests means it hardly ever happens, ergo the preference system.
      It should be no surprise that when people speak mainly for themselves, no party speaks for everyone.

      The only way around this is to devolve ruling on frequently contentious issues down to the State or Local level and allow people to move to a jurisdiction whose rules suit them better. That won’t happen because people prefer to stay put and argue for exceptions and nuance in the rules.


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        Manfred

        Damn. That’s a shame.

        Just think of the potential of having all the Greens in one location. One the one hand it would amount to watching a weird version of The Planet of the Apes and on the other it would put the entire horror movie industry out of business…

        …but it would be fabulous for doco’s wouldn’t it!


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          Graeme No.3

          We tried to move them all to Tasmania but
          1. the natives objected
          2. the greenies crept back to the mainland to find some global warming.

          Since Norfolk Island is inhabited, I suggest the only place for the Greenies is Macquarie Island. Uninhabited, great place for wind power, free from Global Warming and no industry. The rest of australia would have to support the Greenies but as we do so anyway…Any objections?


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        Angry

        Perhaps Citizen Initiated Referendums as in Switzerland….


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    Safetyguy66

    And as Jo points out Labour has indeed learned nothing. The blood letting over Rudd, the leadership and the “toxic soap opera” continues. I guess when they don’t have voters to impose their supreme intelligence on, they have to impose it on each other.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-09/craig-emerson-blasts-kevin-rudd-for-labor-downfall2c-says-he-m/4946380 (Its a horror movie right there on his TV)

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-09/federal-labor-a-toxic-soap-opera-daniel-andrews/4946356?section=vic

    Maybe 6 years wont be enough for them to get it together after all.


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    AndyG55

    Here’s a question someone may know the answer to.

    In the Senate, if someone from one of these micro parties resigns or is forced out for some reason (health, been a bad boy/girl etc)

    ….. who says who replaces them ?

    If Clive doesn’t get his HOR seat, can he ask his other Pup party member (assuming in the senate) to resign, and then fill the seat himself. ? (and I mean ‘fill’)

    If the motor sports guy drops out, who replaces him?


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      Hi Andy.

      The senate is a states house. If a senator resigns or is unable to continue, the premier of whatever state he/she is from appoints another.
      Convention says if a Labor senator drops off, the premier appoints another Labor senator (with a nomination from the labor party), and likewise with a Liberal/National/green etc so if a Palmer United party senator drops off, Clive Palmer will suggest a replacement and the premier of the state the senator got elected in will follow convention and appoint that nominee.

      Independent senators would be more problematic as they don’t belong to a party so I would hazard a guess that the premier of the state would appoint someone (not necessarily an independent).


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        AndyG55

        Could get interesting, couldn’t it ;-)


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        MemoryVault

        Baa Humbug,

        You are almost right – what you describe is the procedure, but it is not merely “convention”.

        It used to be merely “convention” until Joe Bjelke Petersen defied convention, ultimately leading to Whitlam’s downfall to Fraser in 1975.

        That led to the passing of the Constitution Alteration (Senate Casual Vacancies) Referendum in 1977, which made the convention part of the written constitution. It is now incorporated as Section 15 of the Australia Constitution Act.


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          Thanx MV. Had totally forgotten that (as I was a mere pup at the time)


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          MemoryVault,

          Joh may have done this with Albert Field, but he wasn’t the first, as NSW Premier Tom Lewis appointed Cleaver Bunton to replace Lionel Murphy when he was appointed High Court judge 6 Months earlier than when Joh did it.

          Tony.


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            Graeme No.3

            Cleaver Bunton was an Independent but in the Senate supported Labor.

            To be fair to Joe Bjelke Petersen he claimed that the Labor choice was of poor moral character and asked for a choice.
            Labor refused so Jo appointed Albert Field who was a long standing Labor party member. Labor promptly booted him out and prevented him sitting until they were dismissed.

            I have always thought that Labor were stupid in their handling of the matter. They could have welcomed Field as “one of the boys” and had his vote (he didn’t come across as too bright).

            Or, in the first case, they could have supplied Joe with a choice, each worse than the other. Although that would have been difficult considering the candidate Joe objected to, was Mal Colston. Remember him?


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        Safetyguy66

        Hmm thanks didn’t know that, love how much I learn coming here :)


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      Len

      Joh Bejelke Petersen broke the tradition when he appointed someone outside of this convention in Queensland.
      Can’t help it if people leave paper bags on money on his desk.


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    Steve

    ############## ALERT, BAD NEWS FELLOW SKEPTICS #############
    Oh no. The Palmer Party Tasmanian Senator Jackie Lambi who looks like she just got a seat has said that she wants to RETAIN THE CARBON TAX but to just reduce the amount.
    BACK STAB. One of Mr Palmers new ‘daughters’ just showed why micro party’s are a BAD thing for Abbott’s quest to axe the eugenics tax. Clive is a coal miner, and his new senator wants to keep the tax AND the bureaucracy, lower the amount to the point where it is obviously not worth keeping at all, and leave it there for next Labor-Greens govt which will soon be the LGP party before long (it might as well be). This might be the senator that gets the deciding vote, and she was put in her seat by Australia’s biggest Coal Miner???? WTF? This is a nightmare and a double dissolution might just be in order to avert this calamity.


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      Andrew McRae

      You should link to a news story about this, as we tend to be… uh… skeptical… about extraordinary claims.
      On this occasion the story is indeed reported by the media, though presently ONLY by the ABC and no other source at this stage. (“But it seems she is not afraid of taking on her own leader, saying she did not support the PUP’s push to scrap the carbon tax. Instead she wants it lowered.”)

      If that’s true, here’s all you need to know about Ms Lambie:

      Ms Lambie began her Senate campaign as an independent before sending her veterans’ policy to party founder Clive Palmer.
      “To be honest I was running out of money,” she told AAP.
      “I don’t lie about that with people.
      “I just didn’t have the money like the big players did for advertising.
      “I said I’m not getting this far and having it all thrown out because I’m too pig-headed to take somebody else’s funding.”

      If she was going to vote independently she should have run as an independent. So she was happy to take Palmer’s money, but this doesn’t translate into voting along his party’s lines. Uhuh.
      Well in a roundabout way she’s right. I just never thought of unyielding integrity as being “pig-headed”. Having integrity is clearly a sign of inflexibility and pig-headedness. She wouldn’t want to be “pig-headed” by actually voting according to the policy of the party that funded her election campaign. No Sir! I thought people joined the same political party because they they shared the same political views as its doctrine and membership, but perhaps that’s just me being inflexible.

      But take heart, Skeptics! She saysI was a military policewoman, and so before I make a decision I want to see all the facts on the table.
      All the facts on the table eh? Fine.
      Jacqui Lambie, your special topic this month is Empirically Disproven Hypotheses of Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming. Your time starts…in seven days.


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    AndyG55

    Soooo funny..

    There’s Emerson, Carr, Smith.. (and probably many others) hoeing into Rudd..

    … telling him basically to…. P1$$ OFF !!! :-)


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    PhilJourdan

    Congratulations to all in Australia. As for learning a lesson, as long as the media continues to echo what they want to hear, they will never learn. Instead, they will look for excuses and blame everyone but themselves for their loss.


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      AndyG55

      They are apparently thinking about putting the MP of NO CONSEQUENCE in as opposition leader.

      Given his love and consideration of genuine Australians, that should work well………. not !


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    AndyG55

    Next interesting election… South Australia, March next year.

    Maybe another Liberal win ?


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    Safetyguy66

    Just Emailed Jaquie

    Hi Jaquie

    Congratulations on your victory, I trust you are enjoying the last few days of “normal life” before the job ahead of you begins in earnest.

    I am writing to you simply to offer an invitation to join a group of concerned citizens online, who regularly debate the issues around the theory of Anthropogenic Climate Change and related matters such as the Carbon Tax/ETS.

    As someone who may have a critical deciding role in this matter, we encourage you strongly to join us and examine the large amount of collected data and research that exists Jo Nova’s web site.

    http://joannenova.com.au/

    We would love to hear your views and I know some of the members would love to share their wealth of knowledge and experience with you, to assist your deliberations.

    You have stated recently that you like to be in possession of all the facts when making a decision, well many of the facts that are not presented in the mainstream media, or the carefully controlled Governmental information releases can be found within the body of knowledge collected by Jo. and her forum members and associates.

    Please join us, we look forward to seeing you.

    Sincerely

    Peter Martin
    [address/mobile]

    Can only try I guess….

    As a South African Human Resources consultant once said to me, “Peter, you can lead a horse to water, but sometimes you have to shoot it”

    A uniquely South African take on a popular saying lol… but so true..


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    crakar24

    Time for OT comments

    http://iceagenow.info/2013/09/global-warming-expedition-foiled-ice-ice-ice/

    No need for words just have a read and laugh your guts out at the stupidity.


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    Jules loves CO2

    Thank you Jo for your efforts. I follow several blogs that have given me hope in the last 3 years and this is one. I felt the election result was disappointing, ALP needed to be vaporized permanently. As a contributor mentioned – the battle has only really begun. Conservatives will become complacent and the left will wriggle back with their deceit. They, after all, have little else to do with their time. I feel that Jo and Michael Smith are very important in this struggle and we need to donate generously to expose the absolute rubbish spewed out daily.


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      Jules, thank you. I agree, people who want a smaller government need to make the case better and shine the light on big-government-apologists in the media as well. It is amazing a government so corrupt got as many votes as they did. Donations are gratefully received, and very useful — thank you! It does help, especially at the moment. Cheers!


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        Angry

        Agreed.
        It surprised us as well.
        It just demonstrates the level of brainwashing that has occurred over the past 6 years of hell by the communist federal “government” and their minions in the lamestream media.
        There is a lot of work to be done to reverse this.


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    Heywood

    Want something else to enjoy??

    “TONY Abbott appears likely to secure the numbers in the new Senate to repeal the carbon tax and mining tax in a significant win for his policy agenda.
    But he could fail to legislate his $2.8 billion “direct action” plan to cut carbon emissions, according to early objections from those likely to share the balance of power in the upper house.”

    So the new senate could pass the legislation to repeal the CO2 Tax/ETS but revoke the Direct Action plan.

    Happy days! Billions of dollars freed up to use on more quantifiable benefits.


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      Mark D.

      Happy days! Billions of dollars freed up to use on more quantifiable benefits

      by “freed up” you mean kept in the pocket of the taxpayer right?


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        Heywood

        “by “freed up” you mean kept in the pocket of the taxpayer right?”

        Absolutely.

        But having said that, I don’t mind if they use it on something that benefits everyone, like improving research into a cure for cancer. Imagine what $3.2 Billion a year could do for cancer research, or any other disease for that matter. Or they can use it to improve our defence force etc. I just don’t see the point of pissing it up against the wall for no quantifiable benefit.


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      Winston

      Methinks that buffoon Clive Palmer may actually have had a cunning plan, Balders!

      And by jove, I think we may just have worked out what that cunning plan was. And to think we have Professor Matt England to thank for egregiously ambushing Clive on Q & A in that transparent stunt about Climate Change and not recalling statements in AR4 that Clive quoted. Seems no “good” deed goes unpunished, hey Professor. What goes around comes around. Each action has an equal and opposite reaction, that might then come back to bite one on the arse if one is not careful.

      Therefore, expect Ms. Jacqui Lambie to be “reminded” of her obligations to her constituents and “lent on” in a gently persuasive fashion by that behemoth, the ever so subtle (and somewhat smarter than he is perceived to be) Mr Palmer.


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    rebecca smith

    Just how much out-of-pocket from the carbon tax were *you”, Ms [Nova]? None of the Liberals at the hustings could tell me how much they were put out (and I note Krudd said abolishing it would save ‘families’ a grand $300 a year….less than a dollar a day). Their answer was ‘oh, but look at his daughters!’ as a distraction from the fact they were not impacted.

    [Exactly my point Rebecca. Why is the carbon tax so hidden that voters can't possibly calculate what they've paid? Why do companies face huge fines and jail if they try to estimate those costs for consumers and get them even slightly wrong? Liars and cheats hate the light of day don't they? And if $300 a family is nothing to you, you can pay mine ok?] Jo


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    Angry

    Some absolutely terrific news !!!

    Sceptics get the Senate of their dreams:-

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/sceptics_get_the_senate_of_their_dreams/

    Here’s hoping !!!


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      Safetyguy66

      Yeah interesting read, except I agree with some of the comments that Labour and the Greebs will probably vote for the DA plan to;

      1. Take the lesser of 2 weevils
      2. Stick it up Abbott (who no doubt would prefer an out from implementing DA at all if he could get away with it)

      Very interesting times indeed.


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    pat

    worth reading all:

    9 Sept: UK Telegraph: Emily Gosden: Offshore wind farms need higher subsidies, says government adviser
    Offshore wind farms may not be built unless subsidies are increased, the government’s official climate change adviser has warned, in the latest blow to the Coalition’s energy policy
    The Committee on Climate Change (CCC) has written to Ed Davey, the Energy Secretary, to warn that “required investment is at risk under current proposals”.
    Proposed reductions in subsidy levels for offshore wind farms this decade are too severe for the cost reductions that the industry can achieve, it warns.
    Ministers also appear to have dramatically scaled back their ambitions for how much offshore wind is wanted in the long-term, undermining confidence in the sector…
    Under the proposals, wind farms that start running between 2014-15 and 2015-16 would be offered £155 for every megawatt-hour (MWh) of electricity generated over a 15-year contract – about three times the market price of electricity. This would fall to £150/MWh for projects starting up in 2016-17 and then to £135/MWh by 2018-19.
    Lord Deben says the fall is too steep and that “a degression closer to £5/MWh (rather than £15/MWh) between 2016/17 and 2018/19 is more likely to be appropriate”…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10296527/Offshore-wind-farms-need-higher-subsidies-says-government-adviser.html


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    pat

    10 Sept: BusinessSpectator: Business warns on carbon impasse
    Business and state leaders have warned that any delays to the Abbott government’s plans to reform the carbon and mining taxes could cost several billion dollars, according to The Australian…
    “This is a deadweight cost that goes to the bottom line of companies that our competitors do not face,” Minerals Council of Australia (MCA) chief executive Mitch Hooke told The Australian.
    Mr Hooke said the MCA estimates the carbon tax is costing the economy more than $100 million a week.
    “The impact of these unsustainable costs is particularly severe for the coal sector, causing projects to be cut, job losses and carbon leakage.”
    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/news/2013/9/10/election/business-warns-carbon-impasse


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      gytrr1

      Thanks Pat… I just had a heated stupid online facebook debate with a pro agw ex chemical engineer, and explained the situation to him in simple terms as my family and I live and work in a small mining town in Central Qld. We have had site closures, voluntary redundancies,, and an explanation from our corporate office that we need to run extremely lean. So the towns population has dwindled, people I know have been made redundant, and the whole region suffers (an abundance of rental properties, and so on). Yep, the coking coal price has dropped, however the main calamity is the added impost of the CO2 tax, MRRT and increased royalties. He started to demand to know where I lived, as I had made unsubstantiated claims, demanded to know the company I work for, demanded peer reviewed papers to prove this! WTF?!?

      So, I saw red, called him the laziest person I knew, as he wanted all of the information delivered in links (yep, classic unrealclimate type individual). I suggested he actually use google (although bing is more compliant to the skeptics). I can tell you from experience, coal mining communities are suffering, and MemoryVault, they swung hard against the party that imposed the taxes. My electorate is still in the balance.

      I also had to admit to my economics majoring in econometrics degree, meaning I understand statistical manipulation sampling and models and some pretty complex mathematics even though I actually work in IT… So embarrassing :P

      h, and TonyFromOz, he claimed your article on renewables vs standard generators was wrong, and didn’t understand nameplate and baseload and continued to argue the damned point. *Sigh*


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    crakar24

    OT,

    What a sordid mess Obama has created in the middle east granted KRudd was our most incompetent leader but at least he did not a have a big red button to play with. POTUS is likely to do anything as he attempts to save face after being given a lesson in chess by Putin.

    What a joke Obama is.


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      KRudd was our most incompetent leader but at least he did not a have a big red button to play with

      Actually, I think he did. I remember being told that George Dubbya gave him one, in a briefcase, with a chain and wristlock and double point security keys, and multiple passwords, and everything; so that he could pretend that he was a real statesman.

      We know it was all pretend, because Fiji is still where it has always been.


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      PhilJourdan

      Sad to say I have to agree. The new leader of the free world is Putin and that is as ironic as the Swiss winning the America’s Cup.


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    Say,

    I’m not sure if anyone else has noticed this, or have I missed something here.

    Note that humungous INCREASE in Arctic Ice coverage.

    This was during the Northern Hemisphere’s Summer.

    What’s going on here?

    Tony.


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      crakar24

      Here is a good explanation Tony

      /jamesdelingpole/100235012/arctic-ice-melt-is-a-problem-because-right-wing-newspapers-smell-explains-guardian-climate-expert/


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        crakar24

        Figured it out Tony, here is what the warmbot scientists have said

        “Around 80% of the ~100 scientists at the Bjerknes [Arctic climate science] conference thought that there would be MORE Arctic sea-ice in 2013, compared to 2012.”

        So there you go with a stroke of the pen the arctic ice free by 2013 has been wiped from the pages of time.

        http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/sep/09/climate-change-arctic-sea-ice-delusions

        This is brilliant Tony

        The reason so many climate scientists predicted more ice this year than last is quite simple. There’s a principle in statistics known as “regression toward the mean,” which is the phenomenon that if an extreme value of a variable is observed, the next measurement will generally be less extreme. In other words, we should not often expect to observe records in consecutive years. 2012 shattered the previous record low sea ice extent; hence ‘regression towards the mean’ told us that 2013 would likely have a higher minimum extent.


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          Mattb

          worth noting that the IPCC never said ice-free by 2013.


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            Safetyguy66

            Gave you a thumbs down just out of habit Matt


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            crakar24

            Worth noting that no one here attributed that bullshit statement to the IPCC you incompetent idiot.


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              Mattb

              I didn’t say they did… I was pointing out that you can’t bring down the empire by quoting a media report of a single scientist’s claims as being wrong.


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                crakar24

                Oh yes you did you stupid little man, dont try and back peddle your bullshit with me.

                The single scientist claimed his model was far more accurate than any that had come before and even then he was being conservative, he predicted there will be an ice free summer in 2016 +/- 3 years so he got it wrong even though his model was the best going around.

                My God how do people so stupid as you survive beyond the early childhood years?


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                Backslider

                you can’t bring down the empire

                Hmmmm……”the empire”….. how revealing.


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                Mattb

                Sorry Crackar are you telling me we are lauding just how wrong he is when he said “he predicted there will be an ice free summer in 2016 +/- 3 years”

                Looks like we have another 6 years for that to play out (not that I’m saying it will).

                Thanks for providing the info that shoots this whole argument in the foot.


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                Rereke Whakaaro

                It was a name once given to sleazy dance halls and down-market discotheque.


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                Mattb

                “Oh yes you did you stupid little man”

                Amuse me – show me where I said that?


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                crakar24

                Matt,

                I know you like to gloss over the facts but this is getting stupid.

                The “scientist” claimed his new model was the ducks guts of arctic models there was no other model as accurate as his.

                So lets see just how accurate it was……….the prediction was made in 2007 where he said it will be ice free by 2016 plus or minus 3 years. So this accurate model could not even predict the sea ice extent of a year within the next decade this shows us just how crap his model is not how good.

                Lets move on, his accurate model states it will be ice free somewhere between the years of 2013 and 2019, as of yesterday there was 4.8 million square kilometers of sea ice, can your mind comprehend just how much sea ice that is?

                Do you think it possible that this much sea ice (plus winter freeze) will melt by 2014? or 2015 etc.

                Do you hinestly think it will be ice free in the next 5 years, only an idiot would actually think that and unfortunately this scientist is an idiot and so is Al Gore who ran flew around the world to tell everyone the Arctic is now ice free….oooops big f*&&^k up there but not to worry he has already moved onto his next prediction and stupid fools like you chase after him.

                My God man you must be a simpleton, a buffoon, nincompoop to even entertain the idea of an ice free Arctic and even when they are proven to be frauds you believe the next bit of bullshit that pours from their mouths.

                Jesus wept just how stupid are you.


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                Mark D.

                My God man you must be a simpleton, a buffoon, nincompoop …….and even when they are proven to be frauds you believe the next bit of bullshit that pours from their mouths.

                Agree, and demonstrable in oh so many posts.


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                Mattb

                Crackar you can call it glossing over facts… but the only fact is you are (i) calling the guy out as wrong when there are 6 more years left. So pretty much regardless of what the argument is, whether who will win the premiership in 6 years to how many boat people will arrive… you have NO FACTS for another 6 years.

                And secondly, just because a bloke says so, don’t mean it is so… just one of many researchers with an opinion.


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                Mattb

                plus sorry Crakar I mean. old habits.


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            PhilJourdan

            They did say no Himalayan glaciers by 2035. Want to place a bet on that one?


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      Manfred

      Tony, if you wait a few more weeks I understand that AR5 will be published such questions will be redundant.


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      Mattb

      which one is that Tony– oh you mean the 6th lowest August sea ice extent in the satellite record?


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    Al in Cranbrook, BC

    Link to article in the Telegraph about huge increase in Arctic ice, and global cooling…

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/10294082/Global-warming-No-actually-were-cooling-claim-scientists.html

    Re: media bias…
    You’re not alone. Here in Canada we have the CBC, which will get roughly $1.1 billion dumped into its coffers just this year, and at least that plus adjustment for inflation every year from now until forever. And for that we get such unabashedly Liberal Left bias, makes one want to kick their TV to pieces! Needless to say, save for our pro-conservative Sun News Network, the AGW garbage being heaped on Canadians by pretty much the rest of the MSM is relentless. Stories like the afore mentioned link have the proverbial snowball in hell’s chance of getting aired/printed. Add to this, CBC and CTV have “must carry” status will all cable/satellite broadcasters in the country, but the CRTC that writes the rules just turned down Sun News’ application for the same and a level playing field.

    The left’s hegemony over the MSM is almost total, and it’s shamelessly brutal.


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    Manfred

    Scientists use numerical models to predict how fast Arctic sea ice is expected to melt in coming decades. Until recently, these climate models have done a poor job predicting the recent record loss of Arctic sea ice. None of the models used in the 2007 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report have foreseen the recent, remarkable sea ice loss. This is likely because the models have a hard time understanding the transport of heat within the ocean itself, which some argue causes over 50% of Arctic sea ice loss.

    Arctic sea ice has been melting at break-neck speeds in the past few decades, driven by warming air temperature, warming ocean water temperature, and new, extreme weather patterns, all of which are caused by or accelerated by man-made climate change. Unfortunately, melting sea ice is a slippery slope—once it starts, it’s hard to reverse, and even under normal climate conditions would take centuries to reestablish.


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      Backslider

      Unfortunately, melting sea ice is a slippery slope—once it starts, it’s hard to reverse, and even under normal climate conditions would take centuries to reestablish.

      Right, so we are to believe that the current sea ice extent is in fact even less than last year…. I suppose its just spread out more but thinner….. right?


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      Manfred

      It truly amazes me that the folk at wunderground.com anchor themselves to this stuff in a glorious surrender to complete belief with the same level of certainty seen in those prepared to sacrific all for a clutch of virgins in the afterlife. You have to take your hat off to them.


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    Kleally

    Re: Carbon Tax

    Goverment taking it out of Law is one thing. Businesses (eg power companies, multinational retail chains) adjusting their prices down to eliminate their allowances for this tax is something completely different.

    If Abbot keeps his word, he may as well have left the bl**dy thing in unless he makes businesses adjust prices back down.


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    crosspatch

    Norway has tossed out Labour. A center-right government has been elected there.


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    pat

    crosspatch -

    in CAGW terms, what does it matter if Norway now has a rightwing government?

    even before the Norwegian election, the EU was/is almost entirely rightwing, yet the EU is the heartland of the CAGW scam, with the only major (tho dysfunctional) carbon trading “scheme”…or “scam”?

    With 20 EU member states now under varying degrees of rightwing government, Europe has rarely been more blue
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2011/jul/28/europe-politics-interactive-map-left-right

    left, right? more a way to keep the public divided against the oligarchy.


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    pat

    crosspatch -

    just to clarify the “oligarch” remark…i do hope favours for rightwing cronies will be just as quickly condemned now that we have our so-called rightwing govt.

    with the TPP still on track to be concluded in October, & with only the corporate “STAKEHOLDERS” being privy to its many rules & provisions, we look like losing even more of our independence as a Nation. btw, any aussie citizen recall being briefed by our pollies (or the MSM, right or left?) on what it’s all about?

    25 Aug: SouthChinaMorningPost: Reuters/with AP: US confident of TPP deal by October
    Hurdles remain both in striking agreement among the 12 nations and for individual governments in convincing citizens and businesses the TPP is in their national interest…
    http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1299200/us-confident-tpp-deal-october

    the article only touches on a few issues, but i don’t like what i read & hear about the financial rules, or no rules should i say.


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      Andrew McRae

      Sounds like a race to the bottom. Perhaps the Austrian school of economics has the right answer here, but I don’t know what it is and don’t know if I’ll like the answer when I find it.

      Anyhow, good find. Smells like NAFTA or the beginnings of an EU-style Pacific Union.

      The problem, as always, is in step 1: believing influence is possible.


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    pat

    crosspatch -

    should have also made it clear that, altho the url of the guardian EU map says 2011, it has been updated May 2012.


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