JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).



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Is the Western Climate Establishment Corrupt? Part 3

There are two strong points here:

  1. The Argo system is state of the art, and public property. Yet the most recent Argo Data of ocean temperatures is virtually impossible to get. We could assume that if it showed definitive warming, we’d see those graphs on breakfast cereal packages. Ocean temperatures trump everything. Where is that warming?
  2. The same people who are paid to analyze the data sets are the ones who also manage them: they decide who has access. It’s a system without external independent checks, and the lack of audits makes for a loophole big enough to drive a planetary body though. — JN

Part 3: Ocean Temperatures

The public might not understand the science, but they do understand cheating

Dr. David Evans

6 October 2010

[A series of articles reviewing the western climate establishment and the media. The first and second articles discussed thermometer tricks with air temperatures.]

Click to download a pdf file containing the whole series

Measuring Ocean Temperatures Properly

Measuring ocean temperature globally is harder than it sounds. But it is crucial to understanding climate, because most of the heat in the climate system (water, air, ice, and snow) is stored in the oceans. Ocean temperature is a better indicator of global warming than air temperature, but we care more immediately about air temperature because we live on land.

Figure 15: The Argo network has over 3,000 floats measuring temperature in all of the oceans. About ArgoSource.

...

The Argo network of over 3,000 duck diving floats has finally overcome many of the problems, but only became operational in mid-2003.

Ocean temperature data before Argo is nearly worthless. Before Argo, starting in the early 1960s, ocean temperatures were measured with bathythermographs (XBTs). They are expendable probes lowered into the water, that measure temperature and pressure, and transmit data back along a pair of thin wires. They were nearly all launched from ships along the main commercial shipping lanes, so geographical coverage of the world’s oceans was poor—for example the huge southern oceans were not monitored. XBTs do not go as deep as Argo floats, and their data is much less accurate (they move too quickly through the water). [1, 2, 3]

Oceans Are Cooling

Argo found that the oceans have been in a slight cooling trend since at least late-2004. Josh Willis of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, in charge of the Argo data, said in March 2008 on NPR: “There has been a very slight cooling, but not anything really significant”.

The Argo data originally showed a strong cooling trend. Josh Willis was surprised at the results: “every body was telling me I was wrong”, because it didn’t agree with the climate models or satellite observations of net radiation flux. (Willis, who has written a paper with the father of alarmism James Hansen, had an “eye-opening” brush with Rush Limbaugh over the original data.) Willis decided to recalibrate the Argo data by omitting readings from some floats that seemed to be giving readings that were too cold.

(This is an example of a general problem with data in climate science: believers hold all the authority positions in climate science and own (manage) all the datasets. Datasets that contradict their theory have a habit of being recalibrated or otherwise adjusted for technical reasons, and the changes to the datasets always make them more supportive of the theory of man-made global warming. It has happened several times now—but by chance alone you would expect technical adjustments to make the data less supportive of any given position about half the time. Don’t be surprised if the Argo data for the last few years is “revised” at some stage to show warming instead of slight cooling.)

The Argo results shown here are the new data, after those omissions were made:

ARGO Ocean Temperature resultsFigure 16: The ocean heat content from mid 2003 to early 2008, as measured by the Argo network, for 0 – 700 meters in depth. The vertical axis measures changes in units of 1022 Joules (about 0.01°C). There is seasonal fluctuation because the oceans are mainly in the southern hemisphere. Source, plus private correspondence with the author on depth and smoothing.

...

They Keep Quiet About The Results

The western climate establishment run the Argo network, but they have made it extraordinarily difficult to obtain the ocean temperature from the Argo data. (On the Internet there is raw Argo data, related results like some Pacific temperatures or temperature by depth at some locations, and float positions. But the computations to move from there to the global ocean temperature are prohibitively complex.) There is no graph of global ocean temperature from up-to-date Argo data on the public web; in contrast, there are several for air temperature.

Basically the only way to get Argo’s global ocean temperatures is to ask Josh Willis (above) and get lucky. The graph here comes from Craig Loehle, who got the data from Willis a couple of years ago, analyzed it, and put the results in a peer reviewed paper available on the Internet. Willis now won’t give out the data (maybe it undermines the establishment?): here he turns down non-establishment climate scientist Roger Pielke Sr (Sept 2010).

Why is there no website showing the latest global ocean temperature as measured by Argo? The western public have paid for this data and it is crucial to the climate debate, so why isn’t it freely available?

If the Argo data showed a warming trend, don’t you suppose it would be publicized endlessly? The climate establishment and the mainstream media are keen to trumpet any evidence of warming. Good news! From the silence we can only conclude that Argo is not showing any ocean warming.

In science, data is supposed to be shared. The climate establishment’s behavior over ocean temperatures shows they are more interested in shaping the public’s perception than finding the truth.

Update:

A few commenters below think they have found the Argo global ocean data on the web, but they haven’t. They have find some temperature of parts of the Pacific, raw data for some floats, sites with temperature profiles with depth, etc. Remember, Roger Pielke had to ask Josh Willis for the global ocean temp. data last month, and the answer wasn’t “it’s at this website Roger” it was (effectively) “no”. — David Evans

————————————————-

Summary | PART I | PART 2 | PART 3 | PART 4 | PART 5 | PART 6 | PART 7 | PART 8 | PART 9 | PART 10 | PART 11

Full PDF versions for printing and emailing are available from the summary page.

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77 comments to Is the Western Climate Establishment Corrupt? Part 3

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    Simpler hypothesis: They are crooks.


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    Bruce of Newcastle

    And another example today from closer to home:

    Energy-efficiency weather data 30 years old

    The problems are acknowledged internally by the Department of Climate Change and Energy Efficiency but its senior officers have not released up-to-date weather data, despite repeated pleas over several years from the industry.

    Murray Mason, a mechanical engineer and industry leader in building services software for calculating energy consumption, said yesterday: “It is an absurd situation. The climate has changed, but we cannot properly address it in terms of our energy use because we do not have the accurate weather data that would depict how it has changed.

    So why not release the data? Well, it could be that according to the data the climate has not actually changed. If this is the case then the Dept of Climate Change and Energy Efficiency would look like a pack of dills. Furthermore it would completely undermine the proposed ETS/carbon tax and suck the life out of Julia Gillard’s forum of the great, good and green. Now wouldn’t all that be a disaster, huh!

    I can’t think of another reason why they’d be so reluctant.


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    Fred from Canuckistan

    No doubt when you have something to hide, you try and hide it.

    When you have nothing to hide, you are are open and honest.

    These warmist fools, masquerading as scientists never seem to learn.

    Time to kick their skanky butts to the curb again.


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    mandarine

    SUBJECT: THE NSW CLARENCE VALLEY COUNCIL IS ATTEMPTING TO DESTROY A TOWN (WOOLI) AND STEAL PEOPLE’S HOMES!!!!!!!!!!!

    THE CLARENCE VALLEY COUNCIL HAS A COMMUNIST PROPOSAL TO STEAL RESIDENTS HOMES IN WOOLI ON THE NSW MID NORTH COAST , BASED ON THE FRAUD OF RISING SEA LEVELS AND GLOBAL WARMING!!

    THIS IS UNDEMOCRATIC, ILLEGAL, IMMORAL AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!

    AUSTRALIANS NEED TO RISE UP AGAINST THIS GROWING TOTALITARIANISM IN OUR ONCE GREAT NATION!

    JUST IMAGINE IF THIS WAS PROPOSED FOR THE GOLD COAST OR SUNSHINE COAST!!

    ===========================================
    http://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/story/2010/10/07/wooli-wipeout-wooli-must-retreat-plan/

    THE original Wooli village could be left uninhabited and to fall into the sea if a proposed policy of planned retreat is adopted by the Clarence Valley Council and other government agencies.

    A draft management plan for Wooli village prepared by environmental consultants WorleyParsons suggests because of the threat of erosion to homes along the Wooli foreshore, a policy of progressive retreat from the coast, and in the long-term, retreat from the site of the original Wooli village, be adopted.

    The draft policy includes the possibility of land owners in the foreshore area swapping properties with Crown Land near the Wooli Sports Ground.

    But Wooli Chamber of Commerce president Bruce Bird said the draft, if implemented, would devastate the village and urged the council to consider other options.

    He said lines in the draft plan indicated everything south of the Wooli Bowling Club, including the Wooli Public School, could be sacrificed.

    Mr Bird said the council seemed intent on a policy of retreat, because that was the only option it was presenting.

    “The preferred position of the chamber of commerce is that council needs to adopt a policy of defence,” he said.

    “That would involve managing and maintaining the dunes to stop erosion. There is great anxiety and angst. Property owners are very concerned there is only one option on the table.”

    He said most believed the council could do a lot more to protect properties.

    “If there’s erosion in Yamba, they will get out there and fix it straight away,” he said.

    Here we have had 15 years of inaction.

    Development controls is all there has been.

    There have been many times when the council could have accessed State Government funds for remedial work.

    He said the council needed to accept at least some responsibility for the threat it says is now impacting on landowners.

    “Who in the end becomes responsible?” he said.

    Who approved these developments in the first place?

    If someone approved these developments, someone is responsible.

    In Europe they have faced this problem for hundreds of years and they are being successful.

    He said the possibility of a land swap was farcical.

    They haven’t spoken to the State Government (which owns the land) about it and it would only be leasehold anyway, he said.

    One long-term resident, who did not wish to be named, said erosion of the dunes was cyclical.

    She said the council needed to consider measures to protect the dunes.

    Those included improvements to beach access so people didn’t simply climb down dunes, and policing measures to stop people damaging dunes.

    “We don’t want to retreat, we want them to restore,” she said.

    Mr Bird encouraged people to make submissions to the council before the closing date on October 22.


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    NewOne

    FOIA anyone? It is tax-payer funded, isn’t it?


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    Adolf Balik

    The Holy Bible was also prohibited for a layman. The only priest with ordination could read it. The other could know God’s word the only from priest’s preaching and it worked very well against heresy. Then no wonder the Church of Holy Warming accepted the practice, too. You layman should only listen to preaching on holy temperature hockey-stick and Trenberth’s hell heat hidden in deep ocean. Data interpretation by a layman could lead to an issue in contradiction to pastoral letters from IPCC, NOAA, CRU, and other bishop’s offices.


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    Roy Hogue

    To expand on Mike Borgelt @2 just a bit: they are prime examples of the fact that humans are not basically good, notwithstanding that many say otherwise. We have spent too many generations failing to teach our children the difference between right and wrong and that there are consequences to being wrong. Much less do we demand strongly enough that they get their lives right, starting in early childhood and continuing until the day they leave home. And after that society should take over. But no, it doesn’t happen.

    Is the dishonesty in climate science any different from the dishonesty here in the U.S. that winks at violations of our immigration laws? Is it any different from the dishonesty of the business that hires the illegal knowing full well that he or she is illegal? I think not!


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    janama

    Mandarine @ 5

    thanks you for that info – those beachfront properties are some of the best on the eastern seaboard.
    I see they are opting for a quick sale….because of ill health, wink, wink.

    http://www.domain.com.au/Property/For-Sale/House/NSW/Wooli/?adid=2008528264


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    mandarine

    “janama” (9),
    Indeed you are correct.
    If this despicable and treasonous proposal is allowed to pass then nobodys coastal property will be safe and secure again!
    It is an OUTRAGE!


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    mandarine

    The possum and the grasshopper…….

    The possum works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

    The grasshopper thinks he’s a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

    Come winter, the possum is warm and well fed.

    A social worker finds the shivering grasshopper, calls a press conference and demands to know why the possum should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others less fortunate, like the grasshopper, are cold and starving.

    The ABC shows up to provide live coverage of the shivering grasshopper; with cuts to a video of the possum in his comfortable warm home with a table laden with food.

    The Australian press informs people that they should be ashamed that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so while others have plenty.

    The Labor Party, Greenpeace, Animal Rights, The Greens and The Grasshopper Housing Commission of Australia demonstrate in front of the possum’s house.

    The ABC, interrupting a cultural festival special from Nelson Mandela Gardens with breaking news, broadcasts a multi cultural choir singing “We Shall Overcome”.

    Sharan Burrow rants in an interview with Tony Jones that the possum got rich off the backs of grasshoppers, and calls for an immediate tax hike on the possum to make him pay his “fair share”.

    In response to pressure from the media, the Government drafts the Economic Equity and Grasshopper Anti Discrimination Act, retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The possum’s taxes are reassessed. He is taken to court and fined for failing to hire grasshoppers as builders, for the work he was doing on his home, and an additional fine for contempt when he told the court the grasshopper did not want to work.

    The grasshopper is provided with a Housing Commission house, financial aid to furnish it and an account with a local taxi firm to ensure he can be socially mobile. The possum’s food is seized and re-distributed to the more needy members of society – in this case the grasshopper.

    Without enough money to buy more food, to pay the fine and his newly imposed retroactive taxes, the possum has to downsize and start building a new home.

    The local authority takes over his old home and utilises it as a temporary home for asylum seeking cats who had hijacked a plane at Sydney Airport as they felt threatened they had to share their country of origin with mice.

    On arrival they tried to blow up the airport because of Australia’s apparent love of dogs.
    The cats had been arrested for the international offence of hijacking and attempted bombing but were immediately released because the police fed them pilchards instead of salmon whilst in custody.

    Initial moves to make them return to their own country were abandoned because it was feared they would face death by the mice.

    The cats are granted asylum in Australia and proceed to devise and start a scam to obtain money from people’s credit cards!
    A 60 Minutes special shows the grasshopper finishing up the last of the possum’s food, though spring is still months away, while the Government house he is in, crumbles around him because he hasn’t bothered to maintain it.

    He is shown to be taking drugs.

    Inadequate local government funding is blamed for the grasshopper’s drugs “Illness”.

    The cats seek recompense in the Australian Courts for their treatment since arrival in Australia.
    The grasshopper gets arrested for stabbing an old dog during a burglary to get money for his drug habit. He is imprisoned but released immediately because he has been in custody for a few weeks. He is placed in the care of the probation service to monitor and supervise him.

    Within a few weeks he has killed a guinea pig in a botched robbery.

    A commission of enquiry, that will eventually cost $10 million and state the obvious, is set up.

    Additional money is put into funding for a drug rehabilitation scheme incorporating anger management for the grasshoppers.

    Legal aid funds for a Parliamentarian’s wife who happens to be a lawyer representing asylum seekers is not only made available but increased.

    The asylum seeking cats are praised by the government for enriching Australia’s multicultural diversity and dogs are criticised by the government for failing to befriend the cats.

    The grasshopper dies of a drug overdose.
    The usual sections of the press blame it on the obvious failure of government to address the root causes of despair arising from social inequity and the grasshopper’s traumatic experience of prison.

    They call for the resignation of the Opposition Leader who supported the possums.
    The cats are paid $1 million each because their rights were infringed when the government failed to inform them there were mice in Australia.

    The possum, the dogs and the victims of the hijacking, the bombing, the burglaries and robberies have to pay an additional percentage on their credit cards to cover losses, their taxes are increased to pay for law and order, and they are told that they will have to work beyond 65 because of a shortfall in government funds.


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    Speedy

    Jo

    Is the Climate Establishment Corrupt? Maybe – but certainly they are amoral – i.e. lacking an objective moral compass. (Consider the Climategate files, the 1010 video etc) This is at least as great a threat as any fantasy they can dream up, as it is a sense of right and wrong that glues society together.

    Consider the waste and squalor of the Third World, and corruption will be involved somewhere.

    Cheers,

    Speedy


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    Speedy

    The AGW types don’t like talking about the science these days – it’s all about “Urgent Action” – which reminds me of a dodgey salesman’s ploy more than anything else. This in response to the ABC Drum and Phil Ireland’s little effort…

    Phil

    Can I just ask you to take a step back and explain what’s the urgency and rush? This sort of thing is fine for selling cut-price “Persian” carpets but is lousey for long term policy making.

    I would also ask you to explain, in your own words, what is the PHYSICAL evidence that man-made CO2 emissions are SIGNIFICANT and HARMFUL? I’m afraid the IPCC “evidence” is looking flimsy or doctored or both.

    And I would also invite you to read Professor Robert Carter’s excellent book “Climate: The Counter Consensus.”


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    Robert of Ottawa

    I have been told that the ongoing correction of pressure errors in the Argo data set is likely

    Pardon my ignorance, but I assume that these probes are using solid state temperature sensors. I am unaware, as an electronic engineer, of any pressure effect upon such sensors.


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    FijiDave

    Jo, you might to make a correction here:

    ” They are expendable probes fired into the water by a gun, that transmit data back along a thin wire.”

    I had a go with an XBT once, tuna fishing, and it wasn’t fired from gun, nor was the data transmitted through a wire. From memory, needles marked a glass? plate with depth and temperature. Didn’t use it much, it was too cumbersome.

    I may be entirely wrong, of course, and we are talking about two different things.

    A bullet fired from a gun stops very quickly, though, and it’s hard to imagine why you’d want to fire the XBT into the water when you can just lower it with a rope.

    Cheers


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    Douglas Dc Oregon,US

    mandarine:
    October 8th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    The possum and the grasshopper…….

    Sounds like something that would happen in Portland, Oregon(USA)
    They are about that insane…:)


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    Sean2829

    Bob Tisdale seems to have found some information, http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/ There is revised TOC data up to 2010.


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    Fredbare

    Shows the need for legal discovery laws in addition to FOI. If you create enough multiple chains of government and private industry with data held in various places/countries, then FOI is not able to penetrate the fog of commercial in confidence arrangements to force release of such information.

    Withholding of vital information that might exculpate the accused in a criminal trial, or at least show the evidence in a different light is a corruption of the legal process and Justice itself.

    In my view there is a fundamental right to discover if this Argo temperature information is contrary or not to the science and facts being used, by those with an agenda of social change and disruption of jobs and the economy in Australia.

    Maybe a challenge in the High Court, might force the release of raw unadjusted data for scientific purposes or at least expose the extent (intent) of the corruption and suppression.

    Within Australia there is organised use of labor lawyers, behind the scenes running all the challenges ie. the “possum and grasshopper”, the migrants,redistribution and social justice issues for one side, is there a similar group of lawyers willing to pit their wits to the issue of open governance, honesty and truth for all Australians?

    We owe that to those in science, that have doubts, but can’t speak out for fear of retribution or academic isolation in their chosen profession.


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    Speedy

    Sean @ 18

    Looking at the animation, it seems that they are trying to “hide the decline” in ocean heat content since 2003. They have adopted a tried and proven strategy – if the latest data doesn’t show warming, then make the past colder…

    These guys are unreal!

    Cheers,

    Speedy.


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    TWinkler

    the most recent Argo Data of ocean temperatures is virtually impossible to get.

    I know. The bastards hide it so cleverly it was nearly impossible to google to their website and click on the “Argo data – Argo data and how to get it” link. http://www.argo.ucsd.edu/Argo_Data_and.html

    Then it was quite impossible to click on the link to the first of Argo’s two Global Data Assembly Centers (GDACS) in Brest, France. http://www.coriolis.eu.org/

    Clicking on the “Data Service” link was almost impossible.

    Clicking on the “gdac_ftp_site” link was almost impossible.

    Clicking on the “ftp://usgodae.org/pub/outgoing/argo” link was almost impossible.

    Clicking on the “latest_data” folder was almost impossible.

    ftp://ftp.ifremer.fr/ifremer/argo/latest_data/

    Time for breakfast at Milliways.

    [See answers in #35, #45, #47, #49, #53. There is no global graph. We don't know the adjustments, and we don't know their final "results" -- JN]


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    Bulldust

    I see The Australian is allowing Julian Hunt some column inches (virtually at least) to spruik the IPCC agenda:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/act-locally-while-awaiting-global-climate-treaty/story-e6frg6zo-1225935657740

    His mini-bio redas:

    Julian Hunt is visiting professor at the Dutch Delft University of Technology and a former director-general of the UK Met Office.

    Ahhh the UK Met Office, home of so many accurate forecasts… impeccable credentials.


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    Roy Hogue, we’re basically slightly modified chimpanzees who will do whatever they can get away with that benefits themselves.
    With the benefit of our brains, for a while, we managed to do a little better. Using tools may be the reason as tools are perfectly honest and the user must be also to get the tool to function properly.
    If misused or handled carelessly the tool may harm the user and/or others. Aeroplanes, cars and guns are good examples.

    When it comes to dishonesty the problem goes right to the office of the President of the United States. The Chrysler and GM bailouts where bond holders got their money stolen and given to the President’s union supporters was against black letter law and precedent. Right now homes are being foreclosed without the banks having good title to the properties.

    We’re living through the equivalent of the Fall of Rome.


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    Bruce of Newcastle

    TWinkler #21

    I may be missing something since I’m not familiar with the Argo data in any detail, but looks like you’re right. Those FTP sites weren’t working for me, but this one seems to have data to August. The IPRC site says it has ascii data sets, though I only looked at an August map as an example.

    However Jo said: “There is no graph of ocean temperature from up-to-date Argo data on the public web”. I can’t see a world ocean temperature or anomaly by depth as per Figure 16 above. I would agree that calculating from the ascii grid datasets to a single globalised value is going to be very difficult.


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    pat

    so much media time given to greenpeace, oxfam, wwf and the like lately:

    7 Oct: BBC: Roger Harrabin: Row over shipping emissions plan
    Shipping produces about 3% of global emissions – more than the UK or Germany..
    “It’s essential that shipping is included in any deal on climate change as emissions from shipping are projected to grow much farther,” said Kaisa Kosonen from Greenpeace International…
    Tim Gore, Oxfam’s campaigner in Tianjin, held out a hope that the shipping talks would eventually produce results…
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11497829

    no need to listen to the following, but at least NPR are acknowledging the madness of the endless trevel. Meyer agrees, but then suggests maybe
    NPR: The Carbon Footprint Of Climate Change Delegates
    After Copenhagen, there was Bonn. Now there’s Tianjin, China. Next month, there will be Cancun, Mexico. It seems the United Nations is continually holding climate change meetings that require thousands of delegates to fly all over the world in an effort to reduce the world’s greenhouse gas emissions. But it’s a big question whether any of these talks will produce a concrete result. If not, there’s always next year’s big meeting in South Africa. NPR’s Mary Louise Kelly talks with Alden Meyer, director of strategy and policy for the Union of Concerned Scientists, about the carbon footprint of this rolling series of international meetings, proposals to reduce it, and what is actually supposed to be taking place…
    (from transcript) KELLY: And there’s something like 170 countries represented in China this week. That’s thousands and thousands of people flying in.
    Mr. MEYER: Yeah, I believe the total count that I’ve heard for this meeting in Tianjin, which is a rather small meeting by these standards, is 3,000 people…
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130384209

    meyer’s solution from the transcript:

    MEYER: “Well, there’s been a suggestion by some that maybe you should do what we do with the World Trade Organization, which has a permanent negotiating venue in Geneva, Switzerland, at the U.N. headquarters there. Negotiators spend much of their life in Geneva, in meetings, in negotiating sessions. So there’s not a lot of back-and-forth travel.
    The problem, of course, is that we’re not at the stage where you have an up-and-running regime like the WTO, where people could negotiate around the clock, 24/7 around the whole year. So it would be a lot of wasted time and energy.
    The basic problem is we don’t have the political will in many of the key countries, not only the U.S. but some of the other major countries as well, to cut the kind of ambitious, binding deal that the science tells us we need to get ahead of this problem.”

    doesn’t sound like his heart is in it, does it?


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    spangled drongo

    janama and mandarine,

    Waterfronts Australia-wide are under a cloud even though there is no evidence they should be:

    http://www.claytonutz.com/publications/newsletters/ttf-clayton_utz-insights/20090211/rising_sea_levels-a_sea_change_for_the_courts_and_decision-makers.page

    50 years ago things were much worse:

    http://www.bom.gov.au/lam/climate/levelthree/c20thc/cyclone5.htm


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    spangled drongo

    Jo and David,

    Thanks for the great post. Being very interested in SLR, I also have wondered at the lack of any recent results from Argo data.

    No news is good news and the less you get, the better it probably is.

    But it sure would be nice to know.


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    mandarine

    “Bulldust” (22), I have been searching for an email address for this “Julian Hunt” character so that I can send him some “reading matter”.

    I haven’t had much luck so far.

    If you come accross one can you please post it here??


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    Bulldust

    I see Queensland Country Life has picked up the farm Weekly story on the Thompsons, but there is still dead silence in The West Australian and The Australian:

    http://qcl.farmonline.com.au/news/state/agribusiness-and-general/general/receivers-move-on-wa-feedlot/1962193.aspx?storypage=1

    I am hoping that no news is good news in terms of the thompsons and that the receivers are still being held at bay.


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    william gray

    I wonder if Will Stephen is ready for the truth Ausiegate not far off better advise him to loose the data.

    The truth will win out and finally I can realign myself as a true GREENY. The western climate establishment is currupted group think.

    http://www.suite101.com/content/legal-defeat-for-global-warming-in-kiwigate-scandal-a294157


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    william gray

    And soon Australias turn to face the truth

    http://gustofhotair.blogspot.com/2007/01/australias-temperature-stations.html
    The author asserts that his work is a first analisis of its kind
    We want and demand a royal commision NOW god dam it, I angry.
    10 years of propaganda and lies served up to the young people of our great country.
    I fear the outcome of this conditioning turning violent – splattergate may well prove the way forward for these young unfortunate souls.


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    Brian G Valentine

    Hooray for David Evans!

    There’s no better authority of transients of ocean-atmosphere and troposphere-atmosphere interface phenomena around – to understand how these data have been manipulated to meet the strongly held beliefs of people like Trenberth.

    To Trenberth, the ocean is “hiding” heat, somehow. So if JPL and others show that the surface temperature is decreasing, then Trenberth just tells them the data are wrong.

    The “climate” establishment just ends up their own censors! It’s pathetic.


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    Pete H

    Robert of Ottawa: #15
    October 8th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Steady Robert! You need to do some research. Have a look at

    http://www.ifremer.fr/dtmsi/anglais/produits/marvor/provor_uk.htm for info on the Provor float.

    Any system that I have been involved with requires initial calibration and occasional re-calibration. On the float provided, the manufacturers give <5 dBar / 5 years drift on the pressure sensor. Very accurate but any electronics capturing the signals can also drift due to pressure or temperature.

    The problem with the floats is you cannot send out an electronics guy to do the calibration so they use the Wong et al method and thats another story.


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    Roy Clark

    I had no problem getting the raw Argo data for the Pacific from http://floats.pmel.noaa.gov/index.html, but there are no summary data files. The data has to be collected and processed one float and one day at a time. Have fun with Excel.
    However, even the limited data I processed was valuable because it gave me useful information on ocean cooling effects and the workings of El Nino.
    Instead of more observation satellites, we need more floats like Argo and an updated Argo II that stays closer to the surface and includes solar flux and ocean light scattering measurements. The real science issue is not the ocean heat content, but how the heat gets into the oceans the first place. It does not come from CO2.
    One of the reasons that the global warming fraud has gone on for so long is that the ocean data has not been available. This has allowed the climate astrologers to ignore ocean effects and create computational climate fiction – radiative forcings and feedbacks and all that invalid nonsense. Take the money from the climate astrologers and use it to upgrade Argo and process and publish the data properly.


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    mandarine

    THE CAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING DISCOVERED – FARTING CAMELS!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2010/10/05/184291_ntnews.html


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    mandarine

    Coldest winter in 1,000 years on its way – BYE BYE TO GLOBAL WARMING!!

    SAY HELLO TO A NEW ICE AGE!!

    THE WORLD NEEDS MORE CARBON DIOXIDE!!

    http://rt.com/s/swf/player.swf


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    5 dBar is about 5m of water depth by my calculation. I sure hope they have a bunch of these Argo probes in the lab in a simulated environment being pressure and temperature cycled and also some that aren’t so they can find any calibration drift problems.
    On second thoughts the things come to the surface every ten days and you could do an offset calibration on the pressure every time they do so. In my experience offset drift is far more likely than scale factor drift on electronic pressure sensors.


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    G/Machine

    The Argos buoys are required to show a warming.
    Greenpiece have a Red Button and are not afraid to use it. The
    satellites had better look out too


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    Bulldust

    Manderine @ 28:

    Yes Julian is a tad slippery to track down, though the work internet is a tad slow. Thought I’d be able to track it down in a minute or two on a break. No record of him on the TU Delft web site:

    http://www.tudelft.nl/live/pagina.jsp?id=8c3efe5d-4211-4fac-8df1-5cfe777e84d4&lang=en

    I see he is “Lord Juian Hunt” at Reuters:

    http://blogs.reuters.com/julianhunt/

    Ahhh here we go:

    http://www.cpom.org/people/jcrh/

    I win teh intarwebs!


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    mandarine

    Cheers ” Bulldust”, I’ll add this individual Julian Hunt to my “special” email list…….


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    Joe Lalonde

    The hidden agenda that is trying to be rammed down our throats is not cooperating with the weather that is suppose to be getting much warmer.
    Like the change from summer to winter with the tilting of the planet, it takes time for the oceans effect to the atmosphere.

    Many people are too impatient that effects should be immediate.

    You really want to see a prediction?
    Watch the price of food skyrocket with crop failures.


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    David Evans: Your post reads, “The western climate establishment run the Argo network, but they have made it extraordinarily difficult to obtain the ocean temperature from the Argo data.”

    Actually, until July of this year, monthly updates of ARGO data had been publicly available through the “Global Marine Argo Atlas” webpage:
    http://www.argo.ucsd.edu/Marine_Atlas.html

    They’ve even provided software that allows users to process the data.


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    John Smith

    To those who have any doubts that the Climate Establishment is corrupt, consider these facts.
    @36 Actually it’s sheeple farts creating excessive hot air (methane) which is causing global warming (Or maybe not). Speaking about hot air, I suspect Oakeshit (Oops I mean Oakeshott) will certainly create alot of hot air which should have excluded him from joining in the 1st place.
    http://www.theamericansheeple.com/
    http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/?p=4805


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    Tel

    You can generate graphs from here –

    http://www.argodatamgt.org/Access-to-data/Argo-data-selection

    The data selector above doesn’t offer any nice large scale aggregation functions, and runs slowly as soon as you select a longish time period. Then again, the total volume of the data is quite large. Maybe we should consider a project to reassemble it into a more immediately usable format?

    I didn’t see any obvious Copyright and license policy, there is a “user manual” but it mostly contains technical issues and ignores any legal issues. Does anyone know the copyright status of this data? Is it legal to duplicate and redistribute?

    They have raw data and calibrated data, the raw data seems to only be available as latest data which doesn’t go back very far (although presumably if you have been collecting every week, you would have the whole set by now). The calibrated data is available as a historic archive, you need the “NetCDF” data format reader, or you need to go through the data-selection and get it to email you CSV files.

    The NetCDF versions of the adjusted data seem to have fields linking back to who made the relevant calibration decisions, what reference they used, error estimates and stuff like that.

    http://www.coriolis.eu.org/cdc/argo/argo-dm-user-manual.pdf

    The original data received from the float and examined by real- time quality control should be placed in the [PARAM] and the QC flags set by the real-time process should be placed in the [PARAM]_QC field. The values and flags in the [PARAM] fields should never be altered.

    Each parameter can be adjusted (in delayed- mode, but also in real- time if appropriate). In that case, [PARAM]_ADJUSTED contains the adjusted values, [PARAM]_ADJUSTED_QC contains the QC flags set by the delayed-mode process, and [PARAM]_ADJUSTED_ERROR contains the adjustment uncertainties.

    Seems like the right idea in principle, I’m not up on the details of how the adjustments are made. Detecting missing data records in the historic dataset would be difficult unless you had been collecting the raw data each week as a basis for comparison.

    [My bolding. Exactly. They don't tell us how the adjustments are made or what the final data is. -- JN]


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    John Smith

    Don’t forget that “Chemtrails: What in the World are they spraying?” is coming out later this month on the 22nd I think.
    It will blow open the Illuminati depopulation agenda for the whole public to see.

    [Link removed by ED. John Smith, you must do better than u-tube as evidence for making such claims.]


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    David added an update to the post (though it wasn’t obvious) in response to comments. (I’ve reformatted the update).

    It bears repeating:

    A few commenters below think they have found the Argo global ocean data on the web, but they haven’t. They have find some temperature of parts of the Pacific, raw data for some floats, sites with temperature profiles with depth, etc. Remember, Roger Pielke had to ask Josh Willis for the global ocean temp. data last month, and the answer wasn’t “it’s at this website Roger” it was (effectively) “no”. — David Evans

    Just because someone has given us access to masses of numbers doesn’t mean we can recalculate the “global average” – Well, we could try, but whatever weightings we used wouldn’t make it the same as their Global Argo Average — unless they tell us all their adjustments and algorithms.


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    Doug Proctor

    Is there an official “Josh Willis” response to the non-availability (in usable form with adjustment procedures)of ARGO data? Peilke’s questions are presented, but what about answers? Silence of the scams?


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    BobC

    When Josh Willis started analyzing the Argos data, he got a pronounced cooling result for the oceans — he described it as a “huge cooling”. This was a professional problem — his colleagues piled on, telling him that the result was “inconsistent” with everything else they were doing — the oceans had to be warming up. As Takmeng Wong, of NASA’s Langley Research Center said, “We let Josh know, diplomatically of course, that all signs were pointing toward his data” (being wrong).

    Josh went back to work, using good old-fashioned data selection and manipulation — the sort of thing sophomore physics students try to do to lab results that didn’t turn out “right”. Dr. Willis succeeded in “getting rid” of most of the cooling by these means — what a relief! He was so proud of his “achievement” that he bragged about it in an article in NASA’S “Earth Observatory” webzine (here) The selection of “outliers” to throw out was based entirely on their records being “too cold”. No “outliers” were discarded for being “too warm”. Even this wasn’t enough, so Willis arbitrarily added in data from XBT probes, as such data was well-known to be warm-biases. Willis — apparently completely innocent of knowledge of the scientific method — thought that such data selection and arbitrary manipulation was just fine.

    When scientists who did know how to do science read this article and complained, Willis backtracked and claimed that he “didn’t know” what the results of his data manipulation would be — he was “as surprised as everyone else” when they resulted in less cooling. This is an insult to his reader’s intelligence (or perhaps a reflection on his own): When you only reject probes for being too cold, and you average in data known to have a warm bias (XBT), why would you ever suspect that it might make the result coolder?

    Now, apparently, Willis is making it hard for others to re-analyze the data. I suspect he knows by now what the result would be, and values his current funding (and relationship with other bought climate “scientists”) to any future reputation. The lot of them deserve the outing as frauds that is surely coming.

    To be fair: There is the possibility that they are simply incompetent — they really do think that the purpose of data collection is simply to confirm what they already know — their existing theories — and not to actually learn something about the world. (This would explain the many papers whose “data” is generated by computer models.)

    Whatever — the choice is between fools or knaves.


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    Douglas DC

    Chemtrails is something a serious science blog does not need. I will say this and go no further on the subject.
    1.I spent over 28 years as a professional pilot, I have been a contractor for several government
    agencies,in the US -including some that required a high level security clearance. There is no
    “Chemtrail” conspiracy.The involvement of Airlines, Military, and Civilian operators would require
    a secrecy that could not be maintained.
    2.The logistics would require thousands of handlers, pilots, and tech support.Not one, other
    than anecdotal, unverified, evidence has ever been brought forward.Conspriacys tend to fail if too many are involved,Lok at CRU look at the CARB scandal unraveling in California, which is going to blow
    up in CARB’s face CARB-California Air Resources Board. Fudging, hiding, lies can’t go on forever.
    3. People look up in the sky especially in the fall and winter and see all kinds of “contrails”
    interesting patterns, in the sky. Surprisingly the tend for follow airways,and jet routes. also the advent of GPS for direct nav. gives a quicker, off airway method. creating patterns that look unusual. all of it is simply JET EXHAUS, period.
    I’m done with this subject. Let’s get back to real science, now…


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    Dr.TG Watkins

    Keep up the good work guys – eventually an intelligent politician (is that an oxymoron) will decide there are votes in changing sides.
    Same old story withholding data and algorithms. Only court cases will stop this nonsense.
    Will Kiwigate, Satellitegate and Manngate be just the start.


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    Dr.TG Watkins

    Great comment Bob Carter.


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    Brian G Valentine

    Just because someone has given us access to masses of numbers doesn’t mean we can recalculate the “global average” – Well, we could try, but whatever weightings we used wouldn’t make it the same as their Global Argo Average — unless they tell us all their adjustments and algorithms.

    That’s what these people know all too well, and why they bury the means to come up with the true result.

    I someone “reconstructed” global average data, the people responsible for supplying the data would (correctly) claim, “the construction is meaningless because whoever did did could not have accessed all of the data and they could not know the appropriate weights and algorithms to calculate the averages” [Because we never told anyone and we're not going to]

    This tactic is applied all the time to obscure results that people derive to show “global warming”: supply heaps of numbers to data requests that no one can make sense of to reconstruct anything.


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    BobC

    Dr.TG Watkins:
    October 9th, 2010 at 2:47 am

    Great comment Bob Carter.

    If you’re referring to me, Dr. Watkins; Thanks, but I’m not Bob Carter. As I have mentioned before on this blog, I’ll start using my full name when my wife no longer works for a government lab.

    Likely, Carter would be more polite than I.


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    Barry Woods

    For some reason I have been unable to defend my self at Deltoid…

    So if you could indulge me..

    2 emails to my schools headteacher, resulting in the school ringing up that morning to cancel there involvement in 10:10

    I have removed my Childs name, the schools name and email address.

    From: Barry Woods
    To: xxxxxxxx
    Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:41 AM
    Subject: Other campaigning videos, green peace, wwf, etc. “No Pressure video” – DO NOT WATCH IT WITH ANY CHILDREN AROUND

    For the attention of Miss xxxxx

    Thank you for cancelling the schools involvement with the 10:10 Campaign, following their ‘No Pressure’ video.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2010/sep/30/10-10-no-pressure-film?showallcomments=true#end-of-comments

    As I discussed with you, what the campaigning organisations bring into school, is very different from what they put out ‘officially’ online..

    There is a danger that parents and children consider these SAFE or appropriate websites or youtube material, or internet blogs BECAUSE these people have come into school..

    The groups, heavily promote there material on all the new media, facebook, twitter,official youtube groups, etc, where advertsising standards DO NOT APPLY. They are deliberately targeting the young…

    In the article (towards the end) in the link below are some of the worst ads..
    From Greenpeace, 10:10, wwf (earth hour), government and other mainstream eco groups.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/10/07/if-you-ever-needed-an-example-of-liberal-media-bias-in-the-usa-here-it-is/

    It ends with a particulary awful picture of a child in a noose, standing on a block of melting (artic) ice. That was prominent at Cannes 2009 film festival, a partner of that groups includes the WWF

    http://www.act-responsible.org/ACT/ACTINCANNES/THEEXPO2009.htm

    However, there are numerous other videos, whilst not as graphic, which are just as corrosive, in a slightly more subtle way.. ie GreenPeace’s 4×4 add with an office worker… (spiting, ostracising, name caling, bullying, in an corporate office)

    http://www.youtube.com/v/NOr6EFoXZMk?version=3

    Finally the video from the Cop15 Copenhagen Opening Conference video. all over the media, BBC, Sky, ITV (especial the last bit of the clip)

    The Cop15 Opening Copenhagen Conference video…
    At the end, a small child running from a tidal wave (IPCC say 59cm in 90 YEARS) the child leaps into a tree, left dangling as the sea rushes underneath her, then she starts SCREAMING..

    http://www.youtube.com/v/NVGGgncVq-4?version=3

    This LIE gave my 5 year old daughter nightmares, she still asks about the child..
    She doesn’t understand why someone would make a video like that if it is not true..

    So, I can see the doubt in her eyes when I say, it isn’t true………………..

    They are deliberately targeting the young, a compilation of offical, (UN, UK government, 10:10, greenpeace) clips in this video

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100056892/pachauris-strategy-terrorize-the-children/

    Do you ever meet with other Headteachers in the area, may I ask you to discuss this with them and to show them these videos, to demonstarte my concerns and the risks to children (probably more the older junior – secondary). These are ALL offical mainstream ‘responsible’ groups or government sponsored/funded (imagine what the more extreme groups linked to the above are like!)

    Whether or not anybody agrees or not with what they are promoting, is NOT the issue,
    the concern is how they are doing it. It is all very negative with the threat of violence or acts of violence to animals and children.. With an underlying message of bullying to conform with there views.

    Nothing positive

    I am very proud that my daughter was voted a member of the eco-team for all the real environmental reasons at the school.

    Best Regards

    Barry Woods

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Barry Woods
    To: xxxxxxx
    Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:34 AM
    Subject: 10 10 Campaign: “No Pressure video” – DO NOT WATCH IT WITH ANY CHILDREN AROUND

    For the attention of Miss xxxx

    This 10:10 Campaign video was proudly launched as a scoop in the Guardian..

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2010/sep/30/10-10-no-pressure-film?showallcomments=true#end-of-comments

    watch the video…. How to Cut Carbon Emmisions

    DO NOT WATCH IT WITH ANY CHILDREN AROUND

    It was prominently displayed on the from page of the 10:10 website.
    They were proud of it, ANY child in a 10:10 campiagn school, looking at their website.. this was the first thing that they would see..

    First thing you would come across, if you were innocently looking for 10:10 information..
    The underlying message is appalling, go along with voice of authority, those who disagree, or not totally commited, are labelled, identified as, lazy, scruffy, indifferent, unintelligent…

    It is pure propaganda to impose one groups world view, and desensitise people, put aside the violence (that is just an excuse to make it a joke) the message is bullying and conformity..

    not something any school should be involved with.

    What shocks me the most is that hundreds of people wewre involved with this, and did not see how it would be perceived. It was due to be shown in cinemas, posted on Youtube, twitter, etc, all the media that children would and could see..

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2010/sep/30/10-10-no-pressure-film?showallcomments=true#end-of-comments

    one of many comments from the Guardian..

    1 October 2010 11:26PM
    What struck me were the faces of the children after their friends had been blown to pulp, astonishment. As if understanding had suddenly registered to their young brains what “no pressure” really means when it comes from the mouth of an ecowarrior.

    If it were supposed to be light hearted and funny they would not have included those images of fear on the faces of the children who had complied to their green carbon message.

    This tells me this was never meant to be humour, it was a deadly serious attempt to intill a climate of fear. And then the final sequence when the girl has given her time for free, she is a supporter, but it is not enough, she must also be disposed of.

    In Cambodia they executed people for owning glasses. I think this come close to that mindset.
    This really is about inciting hatred and violence against anyone who is outside the paranoid world of extreme green politics. I hope it really causes a storm in

    the media, but I am not holding my breath. The Guardian actually seem to be proud of their association with the film!
    The comments in the Comment are Free section are interesting, it starts with all the greenies saying how funny it all is before a deluge of hostile comments arrives. The hostile comments have approval ratings of up to 500, the people who find it funny are left languishing with very few approval ratings. This has been a big mistake.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2010/sep/30/10-10-no-pressure-film

    Some of words of the founder of 10:10 campiagn

    Doing nothing about climate change is still a fairly common affliction, even in this day and age” Franny – The Founder of 10:10

    “Because we have got about four years to stabilise global emissions and we are not anywhere near doing that. All our lives are at threat and if that’s not worth jumping up and down about, I don’t know what is.” – Franny – The founder of 10:10

    What to do with those people, who are together threatening everybody’s existence on this planet? ”

    I guess that means me…

    So what is Franny to do with those people……………

    So what is Franny to DO, with Barry Woods, ‘insert you name here’


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    co2isnotevil

    I suggest that the information that they wish to hide is the fact that there’s about 4C of seasonal variability in the average ocean temperatures, which is also confirmed by satellite data. This inconvenient truth falsifies any hypothesis that requires the ocean to respond slowly to changes in forcing. If the global ocean average can swing 4C over 6 months, the idea that it takes decades to centuries to adapt to a few watts of GHG forcing is ludicrous.

    The other thing that this temperature swing demonstrates is the significant asymmetry between hemispheres. If the hemispheres were perfectly symmetric, there would be no seasonal variability since N hemisphere summers would be canceled by S hemisphere winters and vica versa. All of the global analysis that extracts climate sensitivity from paleo data generally assumes that hemispheric seasonal effects cancel when in fact, this asymmetry is responsible for most (if not all) of the solar energy deficit suggested by paleo data that the warmists continue to say is due to CO2.

    You might also notice that the minimum temperatures occurs near the end of the year, which corresponds to perihelion, when the Earth is closest to the Sun. This goes to show that the effects of the asymmetry are even larger than the data suggests.

    George


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    Brian G Valentine

    I modify George W quote

    there’s about 4C of seasonal variability in the average ocean temperatures, which [has the potential to be] confirmed by satellite data

    True, and the IR reflectance is a function of temperature too, I asked staff at NASA Greenbelt if the reflectance was corrected because the seasonal temperature variations that I was seeing from their satellite data did not look right, to which I received

    No reply


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    Tel

    I someone “reconstructed” global average data, the people responsible for supplying the data would (correctly) claim, “the construction is meaningless because whoever did did could not have accessed all of the data and they could not know the appropriate weights and algorithms to calculate the averages” [Because we never told anyone and we're not going to]

    Providing the researcher starts with the full set of sample data, their algorithms for weighting and averaging are merely a matter of personal taste… they will of course produce different answers but none of these answers are more or less “meaningless” than any other.


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    co2isnotevil

    Brian,

    GISS’s own data from the ISCCP project confirms almost as much seasonally periodic global ocean surface temperature variability as is seen in the ARGO data. The Southern hemisphere has less ocean surface temperatures variability than the Northern hemisphere, but the Southern hemisphere has more total heat content change, owing to there being more water and more intense seasonal solar variability. This arises because perihelion (Sun closest) is during the SH summer and aphelion (Sun farthest) is during the SH winter.

    George


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    Roy Hogue

    Mike Borgelt @23,

    The President of the United States is indeed one dishonest SOB. However I think he could never have gotten where he is without the help of quite a number of other dishonest SOBs.

    But “Rome” has not yet fallen and there is still some hope for changing things. I choose hope and hard work over despair. A Congress that will fight him instead of licking his shoes will put a cramp in his plans.

    We shall see what happens on November 2nd!


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    John Smith

    @50
    It doesn’t matter if after doing your research your conclusion is completely different from mine.
    What really matters is that you think for yourself and find the truth for yourself.
    About the jet exhaust, when was the last time a contrail billowed out to make the sky overcast?

    [post the results of your research. Don't post u-tube "evidence". After that we'll find the truth together. ] ED


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    Mark D.

    C’mon folks, don’t you know that the ocean “heat” is not detectable? It takes hundreds of years for that “heat” to actually push up the temperature……Gawwd can’t you understand?????

    Yes it still sounds stupid…….


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    Mark D.

    Bob C:

    If you’re referring to me, Dr. Watkins; Thanks, but I’m not Bob Carter. As I have mentioned before on this blog, I’ll start using my full name when my wife no longer works for a government lab.

    Funny, I’m just the opposite; I’ll use my full real name when my wife STARTS her government lab job!

    Just dreaming I guess……..

    P.S. I haven’t yet figured out which government that should be….. :)


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    val majkus

    Prof Hal Lewis resignation letter from the APS is up at WUWT http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/10/08/hal-lewis-my-resignation-from-the-american-physical-society/#more-26117

    QUOTING AN EXTRACT
    How different it is now. The giants no longer walk the earth, and the money flood has become the raison d’être of much physics research, the vital sustenance of much more, and it provides the support for untold numbers of professional jobs. For reasons that will soon become clear my former pride at being an APS Fellow all these years has been turned into shame, and I am forced, with no pleasure at all, to offer you my resignation from the Society.

    It is of course, the global warming scam, with the (literally) trillions of dollars driving it, that has corrupted so many scientists, and has carried APS before it like a rogue wave. It is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist.

    It’s well worth reading and citing in full

    the article at WUWT requests readers to spread the word (quoting)
    What I would really like to see though, is this public resignation letter given the same editorial space as Michael Mann in today’s Washington Post.

    Readers, we can do this. Here’s the place at WaPo to ask for it. Spread the word on other blogs. Let’s see if they have enough integrity to provide a counterpoint. – Anthony

    Hope each of you can help with circulation and support


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    BobC

    John Smith:
    October 9th, 2010 at 11:05 am
    …when was the last time a contrail billowed out to make the sky overcast?

    I used to see this happen about a dozen times a summer in the 50′s when I was riding fence on my folk’s ranch. When conditions were right, even a single contrail could spread into a sky-covering cirrus haze. Took about 5-6 hours. It’s probably been happening ever since there were contrails (1940′s?). It seems to be a purely natural reaction to the “seeding” of heat and water vapor in the jet exhaust.

    Not too many people see this, because not too many people spend 10 hours outside with nothing to do except watch the sky. (OK, I had to look at the fence every so often, but a horse doesn’t move that fast and you don’t have to watch where you’re going — the horse does that.)


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    co2isnotevil

    Bob, John,

    I’ve seen this too, generally in the winter and under very specific conditions of temperature and humidity. It’s the case when clouds are just at the threshold of forming anyway, and the contrails provide nucleation sites for clouds to preferentially form. Much of the moisture comprising such clouds comes from the atmosphere, not from the original vapor trail and these clouds would have likely formed anyway. Cosmic rays are thought to have similar nucleation effects. Related effects can be seen in the mountains where terrain features cause regions of sky where clouds frequently seem to grow or shrink, even to the point of disappearing altogether or spontaneously arising out of thin air.

    George


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    Bob Malloy

    Excellent interview with Dr. Tim Ball on Scientific Corruption @ http://australianconservative.com/2010/10/michael-coren-with-dr-tim-ball/


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    I said it on WUWT and I’ll say it here: Those who push “chemtrails” are bats**t insane.
    There are perfectly good explanations in accordance with atmospheric physics and meteorology.

    Or do we want to talk about faked Moon landings as well?


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    Roy Hogue

    I said it on WUWT and I’ll say it here: Those who push “chemtrails” are bats**t insane.
    There are perfectly good explanations in accordance with atmospheric physics and meteorology.

    Or do we want to talk about faked Moon landings as well?

    Mike, please! Everyone knows that the World Trade Center attack was caused by George Bush. You have to believe these experts! Chemtrails are a well known government conspiracy. They’re spraying a secret chemical with the Latin name Gorius Doubtius Unreasonus that makes otherwise sound thinking individuals doubt the warnings given by that great humanitarian, Al Gore. This too is caused by George Bush and is his revenge for Gore’s going to court to try to steal the election from Bush, the rightful winner. As for the Moon landing — sure it was faked. All that money went to George Soros so he could fund the rise of Barack Obama. What do you think made Soros so rich?

    Now go to the blackboard and write 100 times: I will not doubt conspiracy theorists. I will not doubt conspiracy theorists. I will not…


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    John Smith

    How about the Royal Society seriously considering geoengineering which they blatantly admit also includes sulfur aerosols as a method of reducing the amount of sunlight reaching Earth in the name of combating AGW.
    Does that seem too much of a coincidence?
    http://royalsociety.org/Geoengineering-the-climate/


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    janama

    David Evans – I’d really like to have faith in your articles but when you make posts with serious spelling and grammar errors such as your recent update I seriously wonder if you are for real!!


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    Tim

    Be afraid – be very afraid, because just about everything is caused by global warming:

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/globalwarming2.html


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    Roly

    UK Met Office on Ocean Temps

    Can you believe that despite the controversy the UK’s Met Office is banging on about significant ocean warming in the last 16 years. The Argo floats get a mention but they make it read like a done deal i.e. warming ..lol.


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    Maureen

    I am a land owner in Wooli,it is beautiful.I wonder if the council has other motives,eg,letting the area to some resort like club med(not worth the capital letters).Come & look at an area where the locals have done the best to preserve it,with extremely limited local gov: help & not much state help.I think it’s worthwhile looking at the comment Mandarine octob. 8 2010.I know the whole world needs help but we only need support.We have been on our own for years


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    Andrew McRae

    This Friends Of Science site is quite extensive.
    http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/Climate_Change_Science.html#Models_fail

    They have a copy of William DiPuccio’s paper which goes into more detail on the heat content problem and compares more models and data sources (including a handy graph of Argo vs GISS).
    http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/Falling_Ocean_Heat.pdf

    Thanks Jo for your continued efforts in what has more recently in Australia become a Mann-made crisis of biblical distortions. :-)

    Getting out on the city streets and honking the facts at the public on megaphones, as the green left so often do, may not even help. The style would overwhelm the substance. The challenge is how do we get people to think and spend even an hour reading the conflicting evidence? Matters have come to a head and JuLIAR wants to rush it in before there’s a chance to vote her out. It just all seems a bleak situation for the few lone voices of rationality.

    -AM.


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    [...] As with aerosols, this conclusion is based on better data from new measuring devices. But it applies only to the upper 700 metres of the sea. What is going on below that—particularly at depths of 2km or more—is obscure. A study in Geophysical Research Letters by Kevin Trenberth of America’s National Centre for Atmospheric Research and others found that 30% of the ocean warming in the past decade has occurred in the deep ocean (below 700 metres). The study says a substantial amount of global warming is going into the oceans, and the deep oceans are heating up in an unprecedented way. If so, that would also help explain the temperature hiatus. Ha Ha Ha. what a joke – a veritable masterpiece of obfuscation. The Argo floats have been measuring the oceans accurately for over ten years now and there has been no warming, only a slight cooling (here) (and here). The very deep oceans are heated by the mantle. (BTW the Argo data had to be “fixed” in 2010 when it started showing a slight cooling instead of the P.C. required warming – http://joannenova.com.au/2010/10/is-the-western-climate-establishment-corrupt-part-3/ ) [...]


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