Not-Transitioning: India burns more coal than the US and Europe combined and just ordered $33b in “new coal plants”

Coal trains in Bihar, India November 2023.

Coal trains in Bihar, India November 2023. by Salil Kumar Mukherjee

By Jo Nova

India is going gangbusters building coal

The need for energy in India is so dire, the Modi government just leaned on the power companies to get their act together. Instead of adding the usual 1 – 2 gigawatts of new coal power, which they have for a lot of the last decade, last year they ordered enough gear to build 10 gigawatts. And this year Modi wants them to aim for 31 gigawatts. Which is about the same capacity as the entire coal generation of the Australian National Grid (and our gas plants too).

Somewhat miraculously, they are talking of building them “in the next 5 or 6 years”:

India ‘Asks Utilities to Order $33bn in Gear to Lift Coal Output’

Rush to add more coal plants

India is rushing to add fresh coal-fired plants as it is barely able to meet power demand with the existing fleet in non-solar hours.

Post pandemic, the country’s power demand scaled new records on the back of the fastest rate of economic growth among major economies and increased instances of heatwaves.

India saw its biggest power shortfall in 14 years in June, and had to race to avoid night time outages by deferring planned plant maintenance, and invoking an emergency clause to mandate companies to run plants based on imported coal and power.

—  Asia Financial

And they are discussing numbers like $33 billion instead of $3.3 trillion. When President Modi wants electrical generation fast, he didn’t say “quick, build 50,000 wind mills, with batteries, gas plants, high voltage lines and pumped hydro.”

India now consumes more coal than Europe and North America combined, making Australia and the UK, and everyone except China, just so irrelevant.

Coal, rise of consumption in India. Graph. OWID

Meanwhile the Western advisors sit around at frequent-flyer lounges on the way to UN junkets and tell themselves how the world is transitioning away from coal. And when the UN patsy declares coal is a “stranded asset” they nod obediently and sip more champagne.

When our inept and traitorous scientific agencies calculate energy costs, they won’t even put coal on the map unless they add up the cost of every cyclone in the next hundred years and park it in the “coal” column. Witchdoctors, every one of them.

Source: Esteban Ortiz-Ospina and Pablo Rosado at  OWID.

 

10 out of 10 based on 104 ratings

101 comments to Not-Transitioning: India burns more coal than the US and Europe combined and just ordered $33b in “new coal plants”

  • #
    David Maddison

    That’s great news for India.

    And great news for Australia because we can sell them more coal as we don’t need it ourselves.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Isn’t it odd, how as the Australian economy collapses due to shutting down coal power stations and expensive unreliables electricity, that we can at least earn some money in a collapsing economy by selling the coal resources we refuse to use ourselves…

      591

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        Yes, we live in a topsy-turvy world, where left is right and right is wrong.
        I’m sure Lewis Carol could explain it were he alive today . .

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        • #
          Graeme#4

          Charles Dodgson was a good mathematician and contributed greatly to the understanding of the part played by the philosophy of logic in mathematics and everyday life. It has been suggested that Alice in Wonderland is actually a study of logic.

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          • #
            David Maddison

            Lewis Carroll was a mathematician, apart from being an author, poet and photographer.

            A look st some of his logic:

            https://ericgerlach.com/logic-what-alice-in-wonderland-says-and-means/

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            • #
              Graeme#4

              Sometimes I attempt to apply logic to what the Labor Party is doing with its push towards Net Zero. Fails every time.
              Also, if you attempt to use logic when trying to discuss the issues of renewables with others, they immediately shut you down without giving it a moment’s thought, with statements such as “oh well, that’s your version of your facts” and “listen to the science”.

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              • #
                Mike Jonas

                To apply logic successfully, you have to get your premises right. Once you see that Labor’s objective is power for Labor, not power (or anything else) for the people, everything about the Labor party becomes very logical.

                Note also how rich the rulers can become in even the poorest countries. The notion that the people becoming poorer will hurt Labor doesn’t stack up. George Orwell understood it perfectly.

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              • #
                Leo G

                … apply logic to what the Labor Party is doing with its push towards Net Zero. Fails every time.

                Labor uses reverse White Queen logic with White Rabbit urgency. Expect reverse Cheshire Puss outcome.

                Whichever way they try to go, they won’t get anywhere.

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    • #
      Geoff

      More coal will be oxidized than ever before. Low labour cost manufacturing is less efficient than high wage, fully robotic plants. More electricity required to do cheaper work. The great reset will not reduce GHG emissions. It will cause more, faster.

      Fortunately the idea that CO2 causes measurable climate change is utter bull. Marketing by grifters. Vote buying by “democratic” governments.

      There will be collateral damage to weak minded nations. They assume they are rich because they have strong currencies versus manufacturing nations with low cost electricity. Like the boiling frog, its a temporary perception. When they no longer need our coal and iron ore the music will stop.

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    • #
      Gerry, England

      Yes, similar to our idiots in the UK preaching energy security while forcing our gas and oil industry to close down on economic grounds so we can import gas and oil instead and require the interconnectors to prop up our grid.

      30

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  • #
    David Maddison

    India is probably where China was about 20 or 30 years ago and its inexpensive coal energy will help rapidly catapult its economy. As with China, Australia will sell them cheap energy and raw materials and we will buy back the goods made with them. India does not have the expansionist ambitions of China so will not be a military risk as China is.

    The Left/Regressives support China and its use of inexpensive energy. I wonder what their attitude to India will be?

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    • #
      KP

      “India does not have the expansionist ambitions of China so will not be a military risk as China is.”

      But it would naive to assume India won’t want to expand their influence around the world just as China is now, as America followed Britain in the last century. It seems baked into the way Govts run countries, no matter who they are, they get to a certain size and want to be a big fish as the pond grows smaller.

      Africa and South America will be the places that notice it, countries with resources to take, other smaller economies only count for UN votes.

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      • #
        Ross

        They are already huge influences in many western countries due to their emigration to these places-including Australia. So much so that the “smarter” political parties actually chase their votes. In Victoria, the ALP have been cuddling up to that demographic for decades, knowing that their vote power gets bigger every year.

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      • #
        Philip

        yes the big policy of India is to get other countries to take their people. Who, remain Indian and slowly take over the world. Ramaswamy is a rare evolution type. Not many Indians do that.

        I live around them here and after 80 years in the country they remain extremely Indian and marry from India. Of course they have westernized one who is the conservative MP.

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      • #
        David A

        India has a very very long history. That history is not expansionist “like China”
        Yes, they have corruption and ambition, as in a human groups tend to share similar strengths and weakness, yet it is not like China, (or todays “one world Government” crowd) and historically it is not domineering or as power mad as most. This history is actually very well documented.

        Trump and Modi were about to wow the world, and if you ever watch the videos of Modi’s US Texas visit, or Trump’s India visit, you will how the Trump doctrine of “Rational Nationalism” was a done success, (in many nations) until Covid. Subsequently the BRICKs have taken up Trumps rational nationalism, and are rewriting global trade. (There is reason Putin just said he believes Trump’s desire for peace is sincere)

        The entire intent of the Globalists of keeping Trump and Putin apart, was to stop rational nationalism. The globalists were losing with Trump, and now they are losing, and badly, to the BRICKs. They are toast, even if they do not know it. Unfortunately they are doing massive destructive harm on the way out. and tearing things down is perhaps their only true skill.

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  • #
    CO2 Lover

    As per IRES 2020, nearly 97 per cent of Indian households are electrified. India has made a commendable effort on household electrification, as 96.7 per cent of Indian households are now connected to the grid, with another 0.33 per cent relying on off-grid electricity sources.

    With the aggressive implementation of Pradhan Mantri Sahaj Bijli Har Ghar Yojana (Saubhagya) since September 2017, 26.3 million households were given grid-electricity connections at subsidised rates or free of cost (Ministry of Power 2019)

    https://www.ceew.in/publications/access-to-electricity-availability-and-electrification-percentage-in-india

    Meanwhile in Australia with a population of 26,701,051

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/08/climate-statements-take-centre-stage-at-midwinter-ball-in-protest-over-oil-and-gas-sponsorship

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  • #
    CO2 Lover

    As of 2021, Indian data centers occupy over 8 million sq ft area. 60% of total data centres are in Mumbai, Chennai, Delhi and Bangalore. India’s data center capacity is projected to experience significant growth, doubling from 0.9 GW in 2023 to approximately 2 GW by 2026

    In line with the increased demands of new technologies such as cloud and AI services, India is currently experiencing unprecedented digital growth.

    https://datacentremagazine.com/technology-and-ai/india-data-centre-enterprises-continue-to-invest

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Data centres need vast amounts of cheap reliable coal, gas, nuclear or real hydro power. You cannot run them on wind, solar or unicorn flatulence.

      The only reason you’d set up a data centre in a high electricity cost country like Australia is because of security or sovreignity issues or you were receiving a subsidy. Otherwise, data and AI centres will go to those places with the cheapest reliable power.

      I think they will become a major industry for India due to their coal power and India is more trustworthy with your data than China.

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      • #
        Graeme#4

        Recently an article stated that data centres in Australia, if built, would require 5.6GW of extra power.

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      • #
        old cocky

        The only reason you’d set up a data centre in a high electricity cost country like Australia is because of security or sovreignity

        Those are definitely major factors, but network bandwidth and latency come into play as well.

        Bandwidth is continually improving, but that pesky speed of light doesn’t seem to cooperate.

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  • #
    John Hultquist

    Witchdoctors get things right every once in a while.

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  • #
    CO2 Lover

    State-run NTPC’s Vindhyachal Super Thermal Power Station (VSTPS) will become country’s largest power generating plant in 2015 with the commissioning of another 500 MW unit bringing installed capacity to 4,760 MW

    The power plant is estimated to have been the coal-fired power plant which emitted the second most carbon dioxide in 2018, after Bełchatów Power Station, at 33.9 million tons

    The Bełchatów Power Station is a coal-fired power station near Bełchatów, Poland. It is the largest thermal power station in Europe.

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/power/ntpcs-vindyachal-plant-largest-power-generating-station/articleshow/49569128.cms

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  • #
    Graham Richards

    Better we pass this information to friends & family because the MSM are not allowed to pass
    ( mis ) information on to the general public for fear of the public discovering they are being manipulated & lied to!

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  • #
    Richard C (NZ)

    >India…making Australia and the UK, and everyone except China, just so irrelevant.

    NZ is the X axis line on that graph. There’s no reason for NZ, on its own, to be bothered with carbon policies beyond sensible pollution control.

    But our trading partners, especially Europe, are another matter. Everything done here is for image and acceptance. Even though we are irrelevant emitters (and even if that mattered).

    So we constrain ourselves to suit others and pay the price for trade deals. Never mind that those partners are the most trade protectionist on the planet, and that includes USA and OZ.

    Wins in OZ with apples. US with sheepmeat steel to a degree, but the big barrier, unless we greenwash frantically, is carbon emissions (as if that mattered).

    So we pay.

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    • #
      JohnPAK

      NZ almost certainly absorbs more CO2 each year than it’s humans produce. Hyderabad in central India is listed as having over 6 million people which is more than NZ in its entirety but with India using ever more coal it is inevitable that the price will rise so NZ would do well to develop independent energy sources.

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      • #
        Richard C (NZ)

        John >with India using ever more coal it is inevitable that the price will rise so NZ would do well to develop independent energy sources.

        What do you suggest?

        Power Generation (as at) 05 Jul 2024 11:30
        Battery 0 MW
        Co-Gen 135 MW
        Coal 463 MW
        Gas 734 MW
        Geothermal 1092 MW
        Hydro 3254 MW
        Diesel/Oil 0 MW
        Solar 30 MW
        Wind 276 MW

        Wind and solar combined don’t displace coal plus current production i.e. 463 + (30 + 276) = 769.

        Hydro’s at the limit, Geothermal still being added, that’s about it in any large-scale reliable quantity.

        We’re not burning NZ coal which is high quality and plentiful, just not mined. Huge fields untouched. Huntly sits on top of one that was the feedstock – not any more. Waikato river on top of it.

        I see downthread you say:

        Looking on the bright side, – leaving all that coal in the ground until 2050 means we’ll be able to dig it up later and even sell some of it at 3X the price.

        Agreed. Maybe even utilize it ourselves. But I say sooner rather than later because it takes time to develop from inception to feasibility to planning and consents (non-trivial) to design to contracts and groundbreaking.

        Pollution not a problem done properly but some new coal plant operators in China bypass pollution control (scrubbers) to improve efficiency – they don’t care about pollution.

        NZ started caring about water and air in respect to industry (among other things) when focused by the NZFP Kinleith Pulp and Paper mill discharges into air and water. The Waikato river used to be brown and you couldn’t see the bottom at Hamilton. Clear now.

        That focus never went away, good thing too. This from 2005:

        Review of Science Relating to Discharges from the Kinleith Pulp and Paper Mill (2005)
        https://www.waikatoregion.govt.nz/assets/WRC/WRC-2019/tr05-58.pdf

        China on the other hand….

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  • #
    Erasmus

    India and China know that Chris Bowen is lying, and that coal fired is the best and cheapest power that they can readily avail themselves of.
    While we ditch it and fail miserably to maintain affordable and reliable power, and subsequently also ditch smelting of aluminium, which we have huge reserves of in the form of bauxite.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Australia is a nation in full self-destruct mode.

      It’s tragic.

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      • #
        Greg in NZ

        If it keeps raining in the outback, you could grow rice and give India a run for its money on rice exports… there’s no way you’d be allowed to eat it yourselves.

        210

        • #
          David Maddison

          If it keeps raining in the outback, you could grow rice

          Unfortunately not. Under Australia’s Apartheid system most of the available remaining land has been given away to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders to remain unused, unproductive and mostly inaccessible to those not of the correct race.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_land_rights_in_Australia?wprov=sfla1

          As of 2020, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples’ rights and interests in land are formally recognised over around 40 per cent of Australia’s land mass, and sea rights have also been asserted in various native title cases.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Video:

    Coal India’s stock price has nearly doubled in the last year as production surges.

    Output approaching one billion tonnes per year.

    Properly managed countries understand the importance of inexpensive reliable energy from coal, gas, nuclear and real hydro (not SH2).

    https://youtu.be/-x4Vr2yDPJw

    Australia is being left behind by developing countries but is definitely winning the race to the bottom, courtesy of our Lib/Lab/Green Uniparty.

    Australia has no one like Trump with a possibility of being elected, and frankly, increasinhly no hope. And election of the slightly-less-bad-than-Labor Liberals will do little to change anything.

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  • #
    Kalm Keith

    This comprehensive outline of what’s happening with electricity generation in the real world is so different to what the average Australian hears, sees and feels about electricity generation in Australia from the mass media.

    You get the feeling that Australia runs on the understanding that the only way to keep your job here is to accept and believe in the meme that atmospheric carbon dioxide gas is dangerous to the planet.

    How do we allow politicians and public “servants” on massive remuneration packages to continue this deceitful behaviour?

    All of the “takers” in Australia are blind to an important fact; they, their families and offspring have to live in the ugly mess that they have created.

    It seems that there is no guilt or apprehension, just blind compliance and submission.

    CO2 is not dangerous, it’s the gas of life and the sole purpose of the renewables stupidity is to extract money from Australians and funnel it to the overseas interests that have taken over our nation.

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    • #
      JohnPAK

      Looking on the bright side, – leaving all that coal in the ground until 2050 means we’ll be able to dig it up later and even sell some of it at 3X the price. We also have a century’s gas in the ground. The UK has over a century of coal still under-ground and it produces only 1% of electricity from coal units. This might save their economy down the line.

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  • #
    TdeF

    Traitorous scientific organizations? Not the way they see it. They don’t work for us. Their job is to look after the government and validate government policy, whatever it is. Exactly the view of the government itself.

    The days when governments announced policy before an election and claimed a mandate are long gone.
    John Howard banned nuclear power and brought in a massive hidden carbon tax. Who agreed to that?
    Scott Morrison signed the country up to Nett Zero. Who agreed to that?
    Every government brought in carbon taxes and now the top 250 companies in Australia are to pay 35% carbon dioxide tax. Who agreed to that?

    In fact all governments are now in the practice of saying one thing to get elected and doing the reverse in office.
    And the legacy press are too hungry or too on board with the idea to comment. The Higgins affair showed Australia what really goes on in politics and in Canberra. Coke, sex and treachery, scheming. And lying to parliament as the Finance Minister blatantly did. No problem.

    Treachery starts with politicians. Everyone else is just doing what they are told. And the politicians get their policies from the UN. Even activist judges now quote UN non binding agreements as international law for civil cases in Australia.

    And politicians like Biden play both ways, both for the Palestinians and for the Jews. Helping sending relief supplies to one side and bombs to the other. They are both for closing the borders and throwing them wide open. It is so farcical that Biden insists the borders are tightly controlled while Mayorkas says he has a mandate for unlimited invasion. And Jewish politicians have it both ways on Israel, flying two flags. And everyone hates Russia while buying their oil, gas and wheat and seizing their overseas funds. Iran though received their money back for hostages at $6Billion a hostage, which funded the whole disaster in Gaza.

    But the kick back against government treachery is growing daily. In Italy, the UK, France, EU and soon America. Migration, inflation, racism, violence, agriculture, oppressive carbon taxes and the total destruction of reliable, adequate, affordable electricity. Only nuclear is keeping the lights on in Europe.

    Treachery? Yes, Minister lectured on how to write a report the government wanted. It’s as true today. The report no one wants is that there is no man made carbon dioxide problem and never was. China and India know this. Every real scientist knows this. A Climate Scientist is a di-oxymoron. And the CSIRO produce the result the politicians want. It’s their job.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      For anyone interested the job of Chief Scientist of Australia is open but applications close soon.

      https://www.nature.com/naturecareers/job/12819547/chief-scientist

      The Chief Scientist’s primary role is to provide independent advice to the Australian Government on matters relating to science, technology, and innovation.

      They pretend it’s an independent position but I wonder what would happen if they got a genuinely independent free thinking person who didn’t follow the Official Narrative?

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      • #
        Neville

        From David……

        “They pretend it’s an independent position but I wonder what would happen if they got a genuinely independent free thinking person who didn’t follow the Official Narrative?”

        David I’m sure that type of person wouldn’t get the position and if they did act independently their feet wouldn’t touch the ground and they’d get the boot ASAP.

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      • #
        CO2 Lover

        I beleive that Flim Flam Flannery is the front runner for the job.

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    • #
      TdeF

      ” the top 250 companies in Australia are to pay 35% carbon dioxide tax. ”

      So who gets the billions in cash?

      And where it differs from taxation is that the people of Australia don’t. Which is why it is utterly illegal.

      No government has the legal power to order you to pay their friends cash for imaginary certificates and no tangible benefit.

      And what benefit is it to Australia to save India and China from the consequences of their own decisions?

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  • #
    David Maddison

    It’s impossible for Leftists/Regressives not to know what their anti-energy policies are doing to the West while allowing free reign for China and India who are or soon will surpass the entire West multiple times in CO2 production (see https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/World_fossil_carbon_dioxide_emissions_six_top_countries_and_confederations.png ).

    They must be held liable for the harm they have done and continue to do. Ignorance Is not an excuse. And absolutely don’t let them claim “we were only following orders”. It’s easy to discover the facts.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    There is a direct correlation between electricity production and standard of living.

    The more electricity a country produces the higher is its standard of living.

    There are no low energy rich countries.

    See graph at:

    https://medium.com/@trevorstark02/no-such-thing-as-a-low-energy-rich-country-577b09be8880

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  • #
    David Maddison

    If Donald Trump is allowed to be elected, do you think Europe, Canada and Australia will continue to shut down their energy supplies or will they follow Trump’s lead, abandon Paris, and put coal, gas and nuclear back on the agenda?

    I don’t know. They remained committed to the UN/WEF last time Trump was in office. There’s still an awful lot of snouts in the trough.

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    • #
      Philip

      No. We’ve seen Trump before. He is a short blip on the timeline. The bigger hope is what is happening in Europe now.

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      • #
        TdeF

        Trump made all the right moves. But his dedidated RINO enemies controlled the Congress and the Senate, Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell who held the fort until the Democrats could take over. As when Tony Abbott won in a landslide and found the new MPs were just along for the ride, not on board with his election promises. And they installed Malcolm. And he installed Scott Morrison, expecting him to fail.

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        • #
          TdeF

          And I’m wondering who comes after Trump. I expect Ron DeSantis from Florida. Eight years of sensible government and control of both houses should put America on top again. And China needs America as a client. America does not need China. GDP does not tell the entire story.

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          • #
            Philip

            You’re far more hopeful than me. I’m way beyond waiting for a political saviour.

            I’m purely boosted by the fact when the electric power faulters, people finally pay attention and their politics move slightly, as we are seeing in Europe. and that’s probably enough to save a system that at least works – though inefficiently because they still accommodate aspects of the disposable power nonsense.

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  • #
    Neville

    The trouble is most voters haven’t got a clue and certainly don’t understand the OECD versus NON OECD co2 emissions since 1990.
    I’m amazed that few people really understand the data and a percentage that do understand are very happy to preach BS and nonsense to their fellow Aussies.
    This doesn’t even cover the facts about whether our extra co2 emissions are really dangerous to Humans or not.
    We’ve certainly greened the planet over the last 30 years and we’ve seen the greatest Human flourishing in our history.
    I’m also sure the NON OECD leaders understand the data and will continue to build hundreds more Base-load energy plants for many more decades.

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  • #
    John PAK

    David, that’s a good old graph. It’s common sense too. I own at couple of dozen electric power tools to augment my abilities and an excavator to dig holes, move dirt and lift heavy hardwood beams. At the top end of the scale we extract coal with automated long-wall mining machines and build Mini cars in a factory that has less than 10 regular workers but I often get the impression that someone doesn’t want us to excel.

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  • #
    John in Oz

    15 minutes worth watching as a SA Senator with a science background dismantles the CSIRO Gencost paper

    Senator Fawcett provides a detailed response to the CSIRO’s GenCost report on the cost of nuclear energy.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXsJItT_vTk&t=775s

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    • #
      Graeme#4

      Thanks for that. A very good summary of the major issues with GenCost. And it was interesting to note that OECD and IEA both came up with totally different results, and they both said that LCOE was not suitable.

      20

  • #
    Ronin

    This mornings power costs, Tas renewables, $260.11 Mwh, QLD coal, $52.65.

    30

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  • #
    Simon

    As stated on https://ourworldindata.org/data-insights/india-now-consumes-more-coal-than-europe-and-north-america-combined

    On a per-capita basis, coal consumption in India has only just passed levels in either region. That’s after centuries of higher consumption in North America and Europe.

    This is a good news story. The main reason India has caught up is because per capita consumption of coal has dropped dramatically in the developed world.
    https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/energy?tab=chart&facet=none&country=IND~OWID_NAM~OWID_EUR&Total+or+Breakdown=Select+a+source&Energy+or+Electricity=Primary+energy&Metric=Per+capita+consumption&Select+a+source=Coal

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    • #
      TdeF

      Yes and they are sick of really stupid windmills. I was in a new German factory in Coimbatore when the wind stopped. Everything stopped. Then a big diesel started up, but not for the factory. Everyone just stood around, nothing to do. It was insane.

      I can only imagine what happened in people’s lives. Can you even imagine how that impacts a modern life when all the electricity suddenly goes off for an indeterminate period?

      I am sure the people in Adelaide know all about it, despite having so much of Australia’s early wind and solar installation. Which is why the South Australian government have their own giant diesel generators in Elizabeth.

      Taxation and airconditioning must go on or government employees will not get paid in the heat of summer or the cold depths of winter. That will not be tolerated.

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      • #
        TdeF

        And the insanity is that Australians are being told the exact opposite, which is that windmills are a realistic solution. Why is the only question? We could ask the Indians about the value of windmills.

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      Richard C (NZ)

      Simon >The main reason India has caught up is because per capita consumption of coal has dropped dramatically in the developed world

      Let’s play pick-a-metric to plug:

      International Energy Agency (IEA):

      With both global CO2 emissions and GDP rising by around 6% in 2021, the average emissions intensity of global economic output stayed constant at 0.26 tonnes of CO2 per USD 1 000. The emissions intensity of GDP declined in China, falling by more than 3% to 0.45 tonnes of CO2 per USD 1 000 of GDP. China nonetheless has the highest emissions intensity of GDP among major economies. This is a result of the dominant role of coal in China’s energy mix (60% compared with the global average of 27%) and the high share of industry in China’s GDP (39% compared with the global average of 28%). The emissions intensity of China’s GDP has nonetheless declined by 40% since the year 2000.

      https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/co2-emissions-intensity-of-gdp-1990-2021

      India
      1980: 0.30 tCO2 per USD 1000
      1991: 0.39 tCO2 per USD 1000
      2002: 0.35 tCO2 per USD 1000
      2021: 0.25 tCO2 per USD 1000

      In that graph India “caught up” around 1991. Been tracking World and USA since.

      And China dropped dramatically, developed world didn’t.

      But in the end it’s totals that matter.

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        Ross

        Exactly, when anyone ever uses” per capita” as their metric for argument, you know it’s flawed. For years, Australia was the worst “CO2 polluter” in the world. No we weren’t, that was a per capita base. It’s the whole system that matters. Carbon accounting- the most dodgy accounting method in the world.

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      Raving

      Let’s be specific

      Now consider the number of people in India + China.

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    Philip

    Yes but I read that none of this matters. Let’s look at China.

    China is the biggest renewable energy investor in the world, and aim to reduce their output post 2030. They are performing the production for western consumption.

    I read this all the time from the antiwhite cope crowd. You have to be a white western nation for coal use to matter.

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    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    The need for energy in India is so dire,…

    It’s dire here. The thing is that India is embracing the reality of their energy needs by using coal to provide reliable base-load power for their industrial and domestic independence whereas the Australian government is doggedly embracing the fanciful Green ideology of sustainable energy from ephemeral renewable sources like wind solar and ‘green’ hydrogen.

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    Ross

    Not sure if Jo wrote this article, she’s usually a bit more reserved. Anyway, I’ll rewrite the last paragraph. “ The inept CSIRO who have never previously completed any in depth economic analysis and believe in the man made climate change fantasy are deceptively advising the Australian government”.

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        Ross

        Yes Minister/ Prime Minister – should be mandatory viewing for every political correspondent/ journalist. Loved all the series. Present Australian equivalent is “Utopia” created by Santo Cilauro, Tom Gleisner, Rob Sitch. In the US probably “VEEP” (starring Julia Louis-Dreyfus). Also “Parks and Recreation” in the US. To stay on topic (sorry Jo) I’m sure there is an Indian equivalent.

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    Ross

    I work in the agricultural industry and I’ve never really understood the obsession with China. Started back in the 1980’s with the Wool industry wanting to supply every Chinese person with a pair of merino wool socks. As a trading partner we share so little in common and have often been adversely affected by their trading policies. We actually have so much more in common with India- including, of course, cricket. We should have been supplying India with more agricultural produce, manufactured goods and mineral raw materials. Even possibly RH drive cars. Plus now, coal!! But we have idiots in government and also corporate leadership who are floundering around thinking they can solve climate change.

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      Penguinite

      As Judge Judy would say “coulda woulda shouda”. The fact is it was India that frustrated trade with tariffs! Only just recently they reduced the tariff on chick peas, cotton and wine. I’m certain that now they have realised the benefits to the mutual benefits that Trade with Australia can provide things will flourish naturally! But we must be careful not to put too many eggs in any one basket because China’s example should have taught our farmers and growers generally a very valuable lesson.

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        Ross

        We also have a certain symbiosis with Pakistan – there’s another country which we should be concentrating more efforts on as well. But carefully so as to not unfriend India! You start off small and gradually build.

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      David Maddison

      I agree.

      I think India is much more compatible with Australia in many ways, including British colonial heritage, and not militarily aggressive.

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        TdeF

        As a nuclear armed nation, their regional enemies are their neighbours in China and Pakistan. And there is continual serious conflict, except that it rarely makes the Australian press. And their navy is intervening in the war with the Houthis, Iran’s proxies who have declared war on everyone, except China and Russia. It is strangling European trade with India. We would have a far better business partner in India and the benefits would be mutual, especially as they are not communists.

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      TdeF

      And that climate change exists at all. Let alone driven by CO2. And CO2 by human output. And that slight warming is a concern anywhere, at worst at the very peak of summer and not any other time. Or that against all the facts, rapid sea level rise is underway.

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      jim

      Also the commonwealth. The more common ground the better. People in high trust societies have much binding them together, this diversity our Overlords have been foisting upon is destroying that trust, turning us into low trust society. Diversity is NOT our strength, no matter how many times we are told it.

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    Penguinite

    It’s not that long ago when the Queensland Government was frustrating the export of coal to India and caused an Indian entrepreneur and Clive Palmer to almost cancel their respective developments of a huge Bowen (how ironic?) Basin coal mine based on spurious concerns about coal ships transiting The GBR would damage it beyond repair

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      David Maddison

      In Vicdanistan, the Government intervened to stop the export of lignite which India wanted to buy.

      As I said, above, Australia is a nation in full self-destruct mode.

      We are governed by morons.

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        TdeF

        And stopped Exxon from spending $200Million of their own money looking for expected vast reserves of gas in Gippsland. That was the doing of the Liberals under Denis Napthine who are only 1cm to the right of Labor. As in the UK.

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          TdeF

          It is O’Sullivan’s rule that any part or organization which is conservative in name only will slowly become socialist. And 26 years of Howard’s Broad Church has created a weak and left Liberal party with no real policies, even the ones they pretend to have. Like the Tories who went BREXIT to win power but didn’t mean it for a second. And anyone pro coal or who says Climate Change is crap or India is right is immediately defenestrated.

          It doesn’t matter a tinker’s toss what Australia does. What matters is what China and India do. Their output just breathing is each more than our entire CO2 output.

          And they are building coal power stations as fast as they can.

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            TdeF

            Some simple arithmetic on CO2 from India and China.

            Each human breathes out 3 tons of CO2 a year. We are ICVs. Running on eco-fuel solar, carbohydrates, hydrated carbon dioxide. Or protein, created from eco fuel.

            Each of India and China has 1.4Billion people.

            Each outputs 4.2Billion tons of CO2 every year from just breathing!

            Australia’s total CO2 output is a only 465 Million tons.

            Breathing alone in China and India is 10x our entire CO2 output. And 2/3 of that huge population is a 20th century growth, so they are not starving third world countries.

            So why really are we crippling Australia? In every case we are doing this with hidden illegal Green certificates paid in cash administered with penalities by our Federal Government.

            Who gets the money? Don’t tell me it’s China.

            This is not about saving the world. It’s theft. No one is serious about reducing CO2. An accountant will tell you that’s ridiculous. A scientist will tell you it’s impossible. CO2 is just the vapour pressure of dissolved gas. Nothing we can do or have ever done will change it, which is why governments tax emissions.

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              TdeF

              The old adage was selling refrigerators to eskimos. The climatebaggers have a better one. Windmills to Australians. Or nuclear submarines to a country where nuclear power is illegal.

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              Ronin

              Then we’ve got a trillion sheep and a zillion roos, not to mention feral pigs, deer, horses and camels.

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    TdeF

    I am flabbergasted that Australia has a Minister for Climate. It’s beyond science.

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      TdeF

      Like a minister for make believe and an army of fairies. It’s only when you see how much carbon dioxide cash they enforce through hidden payments to stop the sky falling that you realise there is much more to it than fantasy. And 130,000 businessmen and politicians flying into the world’s must unsustainable city Dubai for COP28 were not there to discuss saving the planet.

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        TdeF

        When I was a student, learning so much about science and life, if I was told that one day the Australian government would have a minister in charge of the climate of the country, I would have not believed anyone could be so mad. It was unthinkable. Megalomania.

        But it’s not about controlling the climates of Australia. That’s silly. It’s about the oceans, lakes, streams and rivers of cash. And the minister has a degree in Economics not science.

        Then my thought would have been that they would never get away with such a ridiculous idea. I would have been wrong.

        And the reason that it works is that no one talks science at all. Because science has nothing to do with it.

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      Ronin

      A bit like a Minister for Funny Walks.

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    RickWill

    This is India’s energy transition – from dung to modern electrical grid powered by coal.

    Coal reserves have been dramatically increased just this decade:

    COAL RESERVES
    As a result of exploration carried out up to the maximum depth of 1200m by the GSI, CMPDI, SCCL and MECL etc, a cumulative total estimated coal reserve (resource) of the country as per the Coal Inventory published by GSI, as on 01.04.2022 is 361411.46 million tonnes”. Details of State-wise and category-wise coal resource are given as under:

    https://www.coal.gov.in/index.php/en/major-statistics/coal-reserves

    Current internal production is 997Mt so current reserves good for about 360 years. They can increase output quite a lot with little future threat. They are currently better placed than China from the perspective of reserves.

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    […] https://joannenova.com.au/2024/07/not-transitioning-india-burns-more-coal-than-the-us-and-europe-com…By Jo NovaIndia is going gangbusters building coalThe need for energy in India is so dire, the Modi government just leaned on the power companies to get their act together. Instead of adding the usual 1 – 2 gigawatts of new coal power, which they have for a lot of the last decade, last year they ordered enough gear to build 10 gigawatts. And this year Modi wants them to aim for 31 gigawatts. Which is about the same capacity as the entire coal generation of the Australian National Grid (and our gas plants too).Somewhat miraculously, they are talking of building them “in the next 5 or 6 years”:India ‘Asks Utilities to Order $33bn in Gear to Lift Coal Output’Rush to add more coal plants. […]

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    Zigmaster

    Ironically India is showing Australia how you can become a renewables superpower. Invest in coal fired power. The only way to be a renewables superpower and genuinely compete with China is to have a competitive edge in terms of costs and capacity. And if the renewables industry collapses who cares ,other manufacturing opportunities will drive it. With the world desperate to find alternatives to China India has the potential to become the most important economy in the world .

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    Eastern North America

    St John, take a look at these stonk tickers $FCEL and $PLUG. The Engineers, if you took a look at what they had to say, knew this was BS from the beginning. Money talks, bs walks.
    I don’t know if it was combination of zer0 interest rates and we are going to save the World from ‘Board the Ark’, but this s got outta hand, feel good hallucinations. And now trending towards penny stonks … can you imagine? And all those PBS documentaries to the contrary?

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    […] This article originally appeared at JoNova […]

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