JoNova

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Fourth dose booster honeymoon all over in just 8 weeks

Not much of a honeymoon — “Week 2 to week 6”

Coronavirus-vaccine. Photo

Photo by Hakan Nural on Unsplash

A new Israeli study sliced through the medical records of 1.2 million people. They compared people who had three doses with people who went on to have four. By three or four weeks after the 4th shot, people had half as many symptomatic infections. It’s “nice” but it’s only 50% efficacy, and that’s as good as it gets. So much for the glory days of “95% efficacy” — things are so unimpressive, no one talks in percentages anymore. By eight weeks after the fourth dose there was pretty much no extra protection against infection left.

On the plus side, the fourth dose did seem to prevent people getting a nasty disease, with 3.5 times as many 3-dose people getting a severe infection compared to the 4th-dosers. On the down side, those patients were only followed for six weeks. The honeymoon-from-hospitalization may fade quickly too. It lasts a few months with the 3rd dose.

So the fourth dose isn’t going to last through the winter — the meaningful honeymoon period is just a few weeks — from Week 2 to Week 6 to be precise, and that’s only 30-50% “protection”. If damage from Wuhan spikes is cumulative, the short honeymoon may be a bum deal, to say the least.

So when it comes to people getting on planes, if it’s not safe for the unvaccinated to fly because they might spread more disease, then it’s not safe for the multi-vaccinated most of the time either.

Higher dots on this graph mean more protection

Forth dose Pfizer Vaccine, dose, Israel, Graph.

8 weeks after the fourth dose there was no difference between people who had three or four doses. They probably still have some protection against Severe infection, but for how long?

Dr Bean does a detailed video for those who are interested.

REFERENCE

Bar-On, Yinon M et al (2022) Protection by a Fourth Dose of BNT162b2 against Omicron in Israel, New England Journal of Medicine, April 5, 2022, DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa2201570

9.6 out of 10 based on 48 ratings

127 comments to Fourth dose booster honeymoon all over in just 8 weeks

  • #
    tonyb

    Unfortunately this UK link ties in neatly

    https://dailysceptic.org/2022/04/08/the-23000-unexplained-deaths-in-england-and-wales-that-raise-serious-questions-of-vaccine-safety/

    The efficacy of the vaccine seems to wane very quickly, does not prevent transmission and more studies seem to show it is now causing sufficient deaths that it has become a significant factor in itself.

    440

    • #
      Ian

      As a counter-balance to the article to which you link here is a link to another that states:

      A headline on the journalist Toby Young’s website, the Daily Sceptic, falsely claims that a report from Public Health England (PHE) shows the Covid-19 vaccines having “negative effectiveness” in the over-40s. This has also been shared on Instagram. It would mean that the vaccines make these people more likely to catch Covid.

      This is not true about the Covid-19 vaccines—nor is it true that the PHE report shows this.

      As the Daily Sceptic article itself notes lower down, PHE says its data cannot be used on its own as a reliable measurement of vaccine effectiveness.

      The article directly quotes the report, which says: “The vaccination status of cases, inpatients and deaths is not the most appropriate method to assess vaccine effectiveness and there is a high risk of misinterpretation. Vaccine effectiveness has been formally estimated from a number of different sources and is described earlier in this report.”

      https://fullfact.org/health/daily-sceptic-phe-over-40s/

      Always good to have a look at both sides of an argument don’t you think?

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      • #
        tonyb

        The reason I post the actual link is that the comments and the links made by commentators amplify the story. Doubtless in the next few days Toby’s adversaries at the Daily sceptic will come up with various interpretations of the figures.

        221

        • #
          Ian

          You write

          “Doubtless in the next few days Toby’s adversaries at the Daily sceptic will come up with various interpretations of the figures.”

          But this site is Toby Young website isn’t it?

          Still good to see he admits he got second wave of Covid wrong but of course it makes one wonder what else he gets wrong

          334

          • #
            Mantaray Yunupingu

            Just been hiking three weeks through the Oz Alps and not hearing the “news” at all (=weather only…at 3 minutes past the hour), so am still trying to get used to seeing Covid treated as a thing. This means presented as if it exists in reality, rather than as an insulting falsehood we are supposed to pretend exists.

            Facts are that the Oz Govt accepts liability for harming the citizenry with it’s coerced gene-injections, and pays compensation and funeral expenses for them.What else needs debating after this?

            If, after a car crash, I announce I accept it was my fault and I will pay, there is no further discussion of cause and effect necessary, is there?

            50

      • #
        Honk R Smith

        “Always good to have a look at both sides of an argument don’t you think?”

        Actually, I don’t. Not always.
        I call it ‘pathological neutrality’
        It is a neurosis of sophisticates.
        I feel fortunate to lack sophistication.
        It frees me from stylish faux detachment, and enables me to make decisions before it’s too late.

        283

        • #
          Ian

          “Always good to have a look at both sides of an argument don’t you think?”

          Actually, I don’t. Not always.

          You’re not a scientist then?

          332

          • #
            Forrest Gardener

            Science is not an adversarial sport. If you find yourself being adversarial then you are not involved in science. Science, like the truth has no agenda.

            To remove doubt, science is about objective truth.

            362

            • #
              Honk R Smith

              Forrest,
              I live near a science University.
              From what I see, science is pretty adversarial.
              Cut throat in fact.
              There is a also a fair amount of back stabbing.
              🙂

              200

              • #
                Forrest Gardener

                I am more than aware of the adversarial behavior you refer to HRS. It explains most of the global warming scam which isn’t in any way scientific.

                311

            • #
              Ian

              “Science is not an adversarial sport. If you find yourself being adversarial then you are not involved in science.”

              Looking at both sides of an argument is not adversarial. However science as conducted by the proponents and opponents of climate change definitely is.

              A situation where looking at both sides of an argument is not adversarial, at least not now, is the differing Theories of Evolution proposed by Darwin and Lamarck.

              The quintessential difference between the two theories is simplified by a giraffe’s neck

              Lamarck’s theory of evolution was based around how organisms (e.g. animals, plants) change during their lifetime, and then pass these changes onto their offspring. For example, Lamarck believes that the giraffe had a long neck because its neck grew longer during its lifetime, as it stretched to reach leaves in high-up trees, meaning that each generation of giraffe had a longer neck than previous generations.

              Darwin’s theory, known as natural selection, believed that organisms possessed variation (each individual was slightly different from one another), and these variations led to some being more likely to survive and reproduce than others. Features that made an organism more likely to survive or reproduce are therefore more likely to appear to each generation. In terms of the giraffe, Darwin’s theory would state that longer necked giraffes were more likely to survive, because they could eat leaves from taller trees, and therefore more long-necked giraffes will be born, which eventually caused all giraffes to have longer necks. Longer necked giraffes survived because they were a better fit for their environment. It is from this idea that we get the phrase ‘survival of the fittest’.

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              • #
                Forrest Gardener

                Ian, you display no understanding of science whatsoever.

                193

              • #
                Ian

                “Ian, you display no understanding of science whatsoever.”

                Well I understand it well enough to have obtained a PhD from UWA looking at the binding of steroid hormones in breast and prostate cancer using laboratory based studies and immunological, biochemical and molecular biological procedures. To have supervised honours and PhD students in laboratory based projects. To have published about 30 papers in the field of protein binding of steroid hormones and received about $650,000 in grants. I was also Professor of Biochemistry for 15 years.

                What’s your background in science Forrest Gardener?

                412

              • #
                Forrest Gardener

                Ian, focus on the word display.

                Believe it or not there are many highly credentialed people involved in the climate science scam, and lots of highly credentialed people giving incredibly poor advice to governments in the virus scamdemic as well.

                I can’t help it if you write things which DISPLAY no understanding of science whatsoever.

                80

              • #
                Ian

                “I can’t help it if you write things which DISPLAY no understanding of science whatsoever.

                Not sure why comparing Lamarck and Darwin’s theories of evolution is displaying no understanding of science.

                And on displaying, I note you have very carefully avoided displaying any of your science background. Do you have any such bak ground?

                00

              • #
                Ian

                Apologies back not bak

                00

            • #
              max

              Richard P. Feynman:

              It is imperative in science to doubt; it is absolutely necessary, for progress in science, to have uncertainty as a fundamental part of your inner nature. To make progress in understanding, we must remain modest and allow that we do not know. Nothing is certain or proved beyond all doubt. You investigate for curiosity, because it is unknown, not because you know the answer. And as you develop more information in the sciences, it is not that you are finding out the truth, but that you are finding out that this or that is more or less likely.

              As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.

              Ideas championed by the greatest minds of one era are frequently tossed into the dustbin by the next.

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          • #
            Honk R Smith

            “You’re not a scientist then?”

            I’m not?
            Damn, two weeks of college down the drain.

            150

            • #
              wal1957

              I wouldn’t worry about it.
              These days all you appear to have to do is some ‘computer modelling’ on a subject and you become an expert.

              110

    • #
      GreatAuntJanet

      John Howard Roark has just posted his latest in a series looking at data and information about the pandemic, vaccines and flu. It explains the process very clearly.

      “Every year the flu vaccines are updated for the new strains (for more discussion of flu strains read Flu shots and useless journalists). The process of updating the vaccines begins with the World Health Organization (WHO) making recommendations for which strains to include. The FDA advisory committee then meets to finalize their own recommendation, and manufacturers of already licensed vaccines make flu shots for those variants, submitting supplements to their current licenses. In the United States, licensed influenza vaccine manufacturers must submit a supplement to their license for review and obtain FDA approval before the updated version of the influenza vaccine containing new virus antigens can be distributed. (Weir & Gruber 2016)

      Here’s the important part: Such supplements to inactivated and recombinant protein seasonal influenza vaccines do not require additional clinical data specific for the new strain. (Weir & Gruber 2016)

      The updated vaccines are approved without any clinical data. The only thing the manufacturers are required to do is submit an update to their previous vaccine submission”.

      https://johnhowardroark.substack.com/p/the-vaccine-end-game?s=r

      30

  • #
    Simon

    That’s a similar efficacy to the annual flu vaccine. Although the booster might not stop you getting the virus, it will reduce the severity of the symptoms. Viruses mutate, so vaccines have to change also. COVID-19 is well on the way to becoming endemic in the population.

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    • #

      We need a new generation of covid vaccines, let’s hope some are being developed and that anti virals will Also get the official nod of approval.

      301

      • #
        Don B

         Or maybe people just need to have enough vitamin D.

        “Research Shows Persons With Vitamin D Levels Under 20 nmol/l Are 18 Times More Likely To Die From Covid!”

        https://notrickszone.com/2022/04/08/research-shows-persons-with-vitamin-d-levels-under-20-nmol-l-are-18-times-more-likely-to-die-from-covid/

        Jo was writing about Vitamin D as early as spring of 2020.

        https://joannenova.com.au/tag/vitamin-d/

        300

        • #
          Mark Allinson

          “Research Shows Persons With Vitamin D Levels Under 20 nmol/l Are 18 Times More Likely To Die From Covid!”

          Here’s all you need to know about the government’s “health response” to Covid – if they were truly concerned with the health of the population they would be trumpeting such information at every opportunity.

          280

          • #
            David Maddison

            Or even mailing a bottle of Vitamin D to everyone in Australia.

            Despite evidence that Vitamin D deficiency is a known comorbidity for severe covid and many other diseases, it is not even on the agenda of the “health” bureaucrats.

            Frankly, as with HCQ and IVM, I am surprised that the health bureaucrats and politicians didn’t pronounce Vitamin D to be “dangerous”.

            Certainly, an accidental overdose of didn’t kill some elderly patients.

            https://bmcpharmacoltoxicol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2050-6511-15-57

            Here, we describe the pharmacokinetics of an accidental single oral overdose of 2,000,000 IU of vitamin D3 in two elderly nursing home patients and discuss safety issues.

            Conclusion
            A single massive oral dose of 2,000,000 IU of vitamin D3 does not cause clinically apparent toxicity requiring hospitalization, with only slightly elevated plasma calcium levels in the first 2 weeks.

            110

            • #
              RickWill

              Or even mailing a bottle of Vitamin D to everyone in Australia.

              That would bring the conspiracy theorists out in droves. Who would actually take a pil that the government supplied free?

              30

            • #
              GreatAuntJanet

              Or, we could just don our bikinis and stretch out in the backyard/park for 20 minutes around the middle of the day and make our own massive dose of Vit D a few times a week. Seeing as how we are over endowed with the sun monster (mostly).

              20

              • #
                Ozwitch

                Possibly. We are blessed with more sunshine than many other places, however as you age, Vitamin D uptake becomes less efficient, so sun exposure doesn’t get the job done as well as it did, plus the more tanned you are the less Vit D you absorb. When you think that many people in cities live in an enclosed building, get into a tube, get out into another enclosed building for 5 days a week, & then repeat the process on the way home, it isn’t hard to see how Vit D levels have dropped enough so immune systems suffer.
                I take Vit C D, and Vit K2 (to absorb calcium) plus a gaggle of natural health immune boosters, and so far the past 3 years have avoided both Covid and all other respiratory nasties. My bloods are the best they’ve ever been for my age and I’ve reduced my prescriptions. One of the best things you can take is curcumin (from cumin seeds) enhanced with black seed (Nigella sativa) for immune boosting.
                Not surprisingly, governments don’t want to promote this kind of antiviral natural immunity stuff. They’d rather you take a vaccine which costs far far more, and does much less.

                40

          • #
            Honk R Smith

            “Covid – if they were truly concerned with the health of the population they would be trumpeting such information at every opportunity.”

            I think I know the answer, at least here in the US, about 20-25 years Sen. Orin Hatch (R), teamed up with a (D) whose name escapes me at the moment, and passed a sweeping and utter deregulation of the vitamin/supplement industry.
            Curious, that the resulting casualty rate from vitamin/supplement ingestion is magnitudes lower than that of highly ‘regulated’ Pharma products.

            80

        • #
          Mantaray Yunupingu

          Don B. You are correct, though there are probably many other deficiencies etc in play.

          Distilled down; unhealthy people with run-down defence systems get ill a lot more often than the healthy, which is a giant surprise to who exactly?

          Outside the professional alarmists in govt pay, of course.

          20

      • #

        “We need a new generation of covid vaccines”

        IMHO we dont need any more so called vaccines but would agree we need more awareness on health and a healthy lifestyle as we as the use of anti viral medication Tonyb, that is just playing their game
        it looks like the MSM may be about to break out of the mold going by this ch9 news report
        https://www.tiktok.com/@jimkoutsikos/video/7084163371955752193?_r=1&_t=8RL6fj0Mubx&social_sharing=v3

        70

    • #
      Joe Civis

      the annual “flu shot” is not called a vaccine. The “official definition” of vaccine did not have to be changed to accommodate the annual flu shot, but was changed to accommodate this wuflu jab.

      430

      • #
        Muzza

        A sleight of hand to convince the masses. So the totalitarians could say ‘have the vaccine’ rather than ‘line up for an experimental, poorly tested chemical concoction whose nasty side effects have been purposely hidden’.

        160

    • #

      Simon
      The annual flu shot does not result in over 100 000 severe adverse reactions, nor 800 deaths. Although if we go by the research the reported covid deaths are massively under reported, like by 30 times. And the Australian results are already suspiciously low (I note that the 3 severe adverse reactions that happened to relatives were NOT reported to the TGA – the doctors agreed they were vaxx related but would not report…) The true death toll if we use the 30 times figure and the VAERs death rate would have the Australian deaths at over 20 000. Appalling and shows the idiocy of the vaxx campaign which needs to be stopped immediately.

      But this has transcended health. It is now an ideology and a religion. Magical vaxxes are extolled with completely fictitious powers and mesmerise our press and politicians. The reality is completely ignored and any who ask questions are, in medieval fashion, labelled anti vaxxers, who , as we know are to be completely ignored as nothing can be said against the vaxxes. People worship the vaxx and rush to get boosted and are eagerly anticipating the fourth jab – a dangerous delusion that will result in immune collapse or worse.

      Complete madness.

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      • #
        RickWill

        Although if we go by the research the reported covid deaths are massively under reported, like by 30 times.

        Excess deaths in Australia has been negative over the last two years against the average of the previous five years. One of a few small number of countries that had effective public health response throughout the Covid period.

        So how can Covid deaths be 30 times under reported if excess deaths in Australia are negative? Are you claiming that hospitals are just burying people without any official notification?

        02

  • #
    Margaret H Smith

    We already have antiviral s.

    250

    • #

      Yes, but many medical authorities will not use them, or only a restricted range

      220

      • #
        David Maddison

        many medical authorities will not use them

        Medical authorities would use them. It was the Australian Government and a campaign from the Left that prohibited their use.

        420

        • #
          Ian

          It was the Australian Government and a campaign from the Left that prohibited their use.

          The Therapeutic Goods Administration announced the ban acting on advice from the Advisory Committee on Medicines Scheduling”

          I hadn’t realised the TGA and the Advisory Committee on Medicines Scheduling were of the Left. What’s your evidence or that statement?

          I can’t think of any instances where the LNP has taken any notice of a campaign from the Left

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          • #
            David Maddison

            What’s your evidence or that statement?

            Virtually the entire Leftist media and Leftist commentators were mocking HCQ after Donald Trump, upon medical advice, advocated it as a possible treatment option, and then following that, the possibility of IVM as a treatment option was mocked as a “horse dewormer”.

            They weren’t even allowed to be properly trialled, despite them both being well established drugs with excellent safety records.

            340

            • #
              Forrest Gardener

              You’ve hit the nail on the head David. The intersection between politics and science is politics.

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        • #
          Broadie

          David? May I suggest for clarity you substitute:

          a campaign from the Left

          with

          a campaign from the Swamp

          That way you capture all the memebots and useful idiots responsible for this Managed Decline from which we will be begging the New World Order to rescue us.
          Credit where credit is due for a masterful campaign to destroy all that good in our civilisation.

          Fraser with his Land rights to create havoc in remote communities, Howard with retrospective legislation and dis-arming the honest citizens, Morrison with his knifing of Abbott and net Zero, and Greg Hunt being the epi-center of the spring clean of the old people’s homes and God knows what for our children.

          [Let’s not go off topic at #3. – J]

          41

      • #
        another ian

        And often wrongly it seems

        10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Fourth dose? Don’t forget the Australian Government has purchased enough doses for ten injections for every Australian aged zero plus.

    And the 1) ineffectiveness of the injections and 2) the requirement for endless “boosters” is a reason the Australian Government stopped using the term “fully vaccinated” and now refers to the fully compliant slave with multiple injections as “up to date”. A rare case of honesty in government.

    As discussed yesterday, one way or another the Australian Government is determined to get everyone multiply injected, one of the punishment for not accepting the injections (which is ten.percent of the population) being refusal of an exit visa to leave the prison colony.

    440

    • #
      Custer Van Cleef

      Two years ago, I thought we had the right to refuse an injection.
      It was like a Natural Right — something we didn’t even question.
      How did that get trampled over with so little resistance?

      Now I have to pray Big Brother won’t hunt me down with his bloody NEEDLE, anytime “he” wants to.

      440

  • #
    PeterS

    All pointless too if and when we get the next pandemic from a totally different virus, engineered or natural. How about we just do what we always did in the past when a new pandemic comes along; do the best we can using good sanitation and alternative treatments that are known to be safe to use, while letting natural immunity play its vital role? If we manage to develop a suitable whole of virus vaccine then fine but that can takes years of development and testing by which time the worst might be over. As for mRNA vaccines and the like, I wouldn’t trust them without exhaustive trials that actually need to be longer than those required for whole of virus vaccines. That’s the kicker hardly anyone thinks about.

    241

    • #
      David Maddison

      if and when we get the next pandemic

      My prediction is that the next pandemic will be a new release of the WuFlu bioweapon. Now that transmissibility has been perfected, and safe anti-virals banned, it will be given a deadly payload, once the Chicomms have a working vaccine for the Chinese people who are approved to live, not the undesirables.

      And/or

      Perhaps Japanese Encephalitis, already in Australia, and untreatable, except for….wait for it….by Ivermectin….subject to clinical trials…which we know won’t happen.

      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22535622/

      “Ivermectin is a potent inhibitor of flavivirus replication specifically targeting NS3 helicase activity: new prospects for an old drug”

      Eloise Mastrangelo et al. J Antimicrob Chemother. 2012 Aug.

      191

    • #
      RickWill

      How about we just do what we always did in the past

      Quarantine has been an effective control against contagious diseases for centuries. It was the only effective tool prior to the development of vaccines.

      03

  • #
    David Maddison

    Medicine was never about a single treatment for everyone, and yet with covid, the only acceptable treatment was decreed to be the poorly tested vaccines on offer, even before they were actually available. For example, certain antivirals were prohibited, even though they had a perfect safety record, and even though were no other suitable drugs on offer and before the vaccines were available. Why?

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    • #
      Forrest Gardener

      Emergency approval of the injections required that there was no alternative treatment available. So hocus pocus, hey presto, all alternative treatments were disappeared.

      What surprised me most was not that the powers that be did what they did. What surprised me most was the sheer enthusiasm of the happy clappers.

      270

  • #
    David Maddison

    Don’t forget, Australia’s “health,” policy is ultimately decided by Greg Hunt, a student of the guy with the German accent who wants to rule the world, Herr Schwab.

    430

  • #
    philemon

    Maybe there’s an opportunity here for reverse psychology: https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/you-need-to-be-boosted-every-30-days

    60

  • #
    David Maddison

    Greg Hunt’s trainer, Herr Klaus Schwab was very much aware of the “power of the pandemic”.

    Here are some quotes from “The Great Reset”.

    “the pandemic will certainly heighten our focus on hygiene. A new obsession with cleanliness will particularly entail the creation of new forms of packaging. We will be encouraged not to touch the products we buy. Simple pleasures like smelling a melon or squeezing a fruit will be frowned upon and may even become a thing of the past.”

    “the next hurdle is the political challenge of vaccinating enough people worldwide (we are collectively as strong as the weakest link) with a high enough compliance rate despite the rise of anti-vaxxers.”

    “One of the greatest lessons of the past five centuries in Europe and America is this: acute crisis contribute to boosting the power of the state. It’s always been the case, and there is no reason why it should be different with the Covid-19 pandemic.”

    250

    • #
      David Maddison

      Rebel News (Canada) has obtained some internal documents from the Schwab’s World Economic Forum concerning The Great Reset. This is a very important video.

      https://youtu.be/e4TQu-RDftk

      12 minutes

      150

      • #
        Custer Van Cleef

        So Herr Schwab wants to boost “the power of the state”. Sounds like socialism/communism to me.

        Will he be happy when he and his progeny own nothing? … or is that just his wish for the rest of us?

        The extremely wealthy OWN the Left now:
        Why do you think Bezos bought The Washington Post?
        Or Zuckerberg spent $300+ million in battleground states, to get Biden elected?
        Or Soros meddles in the election of Public Prosecutors, in various cities? (places he doesn’t live in), making the streets less safe.
        Or Gates controls so much research; and buys media outlets?

        There’s no talk of why they own so much; and the mechanisms that led to that:
        • endless money creation
        • manufactured low interest rates
        • buying politicians with donations.

        But they’re cunning — they know that their rabid foot soldiers need to be thrown “red meat” to chew on … hence the modern Left’s focus on DISTRACTION policies that are nothing to do with sharing the wealth around; e.g.
        • a man can become a woman at any time
        • your pronouns have to be declared when you meet someone new
        • women are “birthing persons”
        • there’s a “looming climate disaster”
        • leaving a baby to die on a table is okay if its mother doesn’t want it
        • injections are not a choice — your Govt knows best, trust them
        • racist policies are okay, it depends on whose race we’re talking about.

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    • #
      Dennis

      Effectively you are also suggesting that graduates from the Rhodes Scholarship programme are therefore leftists?

      Not in my personal experience, and I have heard similar claims about London School of Business graduates, but I understand that WEF is a globalism octopus arm.

      13

    • #
      Wirebird

      What’s so good about having to buy fruit that has been squeezed and manually examined by multiple customers – whose hands could have any number of pathogens on them? Or blowing from their noses as they sniff?
      I can recall a time when only the fruiterer handled my fruit – and put it in a paper bag for me. There were signs all around the shop saying ‘Do not touch the fruit’. There was no Great Reset that made that happen. Just common sense and the fact that operators of small fruit shops couldn’t afford for produce to be ruined by rough handling, whereas supermarkets don’t care about wastage.
      Settle down, we could return to more hygienic provision of food – for customers who want that – without you getting paranoid about a Great Reset!

      41

      • #
        GreatAuntJanet

        We could have food made of pre-packaged ultra clean tablets, delivered direct from government sources. Call it ‘soylent’. Then we will be ‘safe’ and won’t have to wash dirty real food when we get it home any more.

        11

  • #
    Honk R Smith

    So, we are required to pretend that this is not insanity?

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    • #
      Forrest Gardener

      As the saying goes, the whole world has gone mad except for thee and me, and I’m not so sure about thee.

      Present company excepted of course.

      120

    • #
      David Maddison

      At this point in time, the Sheeple are sufficiently dumbed-down that a vast majority are obedient slaves who question nothing. They don’t have a problem with anything they’re told by the Government or Leftist propagandists. We are truly, already, living in an Orwellian society.

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  • #
    exsteelworker

    “FLU PANDEMIC (1918)
    Death Toll: 20 -50 million
    Cause: Influenza
    Between 1918 and 1920 a disturbingly deadly outbreak of influenza tore across the globe, infecting over a third of the world’s population and ending the lives of 20 – 50 million people. Of the 500 million people infected in the 1918 pandemic, the mortality rate was estimated at 10% to 20%, with up to 25 million deaths in the first 25 weeks alone. What separated the 1918 flu pandemic from other influenza outbreaks was the victims; where influenza had always previously only killed juveniles and the elderly or already weakened patients, it had begun striking down hardy and completely healthy young adults, while leaving children and those with weaker immune systems still alive.”
    So if the 1919 Spanish flu happened again and only an experimental vaccine worked, would all the antivaxers take it?
    It killed fit healthy young adults, leaving kids, elderly and the sick alive.
    Every day we eat, drink food with all sorts of preservatives,chemicals in it. There’s even chemicals in our tap water. Get over your antivax hysteria, because if a Spanish flu hits again with 20% death rate for young fit adults
    you’d be all lining up for a jab.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      So if the 1919 Spanish flu happened again and only an experimental vaccine worked, would all the antivaxers take it?

      1) Firstly, people who are opposed to the present covid vaccines are not anti-vaxxers per se. A vast majority support and practice vaccination. They are against:

      2) The prohibition of known, safe anti-virals even before vaccines were available.

      3) The compulsory nature of the vaccines in Australia if you wanted to work, trade, socialise or travel or in Vicdanistan, even get a haircut.

      4) The compulsory nature of the poorly tested vaccine on a disease that wasn’t very deadly in the absence of well understood comorbidities. Also, there were safe, published treatments available which were banned.

      5) No one is objecting to people freely availing themselves to any experimental medical treatment on a voluntary basis. In fact, such treatments should be more freely available, a policy Donald Trump tried to get implemented.

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        Kalm Keith

        A brilliant summary David.

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        exsteelworker

        You can try and explain yourself away forever but the fact remains that if a Spanish flu hits and healthy young adults are dropping dead around you,the vaccines available will be rejigged mrna experimental drugs, so you still won’t take it.

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          Bushkid

          No.

          mRNA jabs as they currently are being pushed are actually dangerous in themselves. A virus can be avoided, certainly in my own case.

          So, as you are posing the question on a personal basis – No, I wouldn’t take yet another experimental concoction, especially one pushed by the same dubious characters pushing the current one!

          I’d be seeking out alternative treatments or preventatives, probably those being outlawed by the mRNA drug pushers. The reason for that should be obvious.

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            RightOverLabour

            Agree mRNA vaccine technology has a way to go before it is declared safe, if ever. No problems with traditional vaccines, but mRNA just has too many issues.

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          David Maddison

          If any new Spanish flu hits and a vaccine is developed then if it is effective, why wouldn’t you take it? If it is not effective, why would you take it? However, no one should be forced to take any medical procedure against their will.

          Plus, comparing Spanish flu with a high mortality rate is not comparable with covid with a low mortality rate outside of people with known comorbidities such as obesity, immune deficiency, or no access to anti-virals like HCQ or IVM administered according to published protocols.

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            David Maddison

            Another common comorbity that was consistently failed to be addressed was Vitamin D deficiency. I would think many people died due to that cause alone, especially if they weren’t given supplements in the nursing homes.

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          b.nice

          “healthy young adults are dropping dead”

          Yes, they are.. from the vaxxine !!!

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          Old Goat

          EX,
          I have much more knowledge about viruses than the people who were catching the Spanish Flu . I know what works and that my immune system is both the problem and solution . If there is a pharma logical solution that is effective and safe people will be happy to take it VOLUNTARILY . When you have to be forced to do so and you have information withheld or hidden from you about it and alternatives banned you should be suspicious . I have been jabbed twice but will not be boosted if I can avoid it and understand the risks .

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      Mark Allinson

      ” … would all the antivaxers take it?”

      When someone moves directly to ad hominem it means that all discussion is over.

      Just like “climate denier” – it means ideology is supreme and no real argument will be entered into.

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      GreatAuntJanet

      Again, from John Howard Roark today:
      “Most of the deaths during the 1918 flu pandemic weren’t caused by the influenza virus. 1918 – a war, a movie, and a pandemic reviews a paper in which researchers tested frozen tissue samples and determined that most of the deaths were due to secondary infections of bacterial pneumonia.

      This means they think people had the flu, which caused them to get a bacterial infection that led to fatal pneumonia. This is likely the reason the epidemics in 1957 and 1968 were not nearly as deadly, since by 1957 doctors had antibiotics to treat the pneumonia, saving many lives.

      But the 1968 flu epidemic provided an important insight into how subjective the diagnosis of an illness can be. Once health authorities started warning doctors about the emergence of a new pandemic influenza strain, doctors started listing it as the cause of death (instead of pneumonia) even though that strain had not yet reached the U.S. So the reported number of pneumonia deaths decreased and flu deaths increased (by the same amount) for a flu strain that wasn’t even present.”
      https://johnhowardroark.substack.com/p/the-vaccine-end-game?s=r

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    Ian

    Interesting that the conclusion of the article isn’t given.

    It stated
    Rates of confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and severe Covid-19 were lower after a fourth dose of BNT162b2 vaccine than after only three doses. Protection against confirmed infection appeared short-lived, whereas protection against severe illness did not wane during the study period.”

    Comments on this site rarely touch on the long term effects of vaccination. For those unaware of the roles of killer T cells and memory cells, the link below gives a discussion of these roles

    https://theconversation.com/how-long-does-protective-immunity-against-covid-19-last-after-infection-or-vaccination-two-immunologists-explain-177309

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      Forrest Gardener

      Pure, unadulterated misinformation Ian.

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        b.nice

        “Pure, unadulterated misinformation

        Pretty good description of most of the far-left “Conversation”

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        Ian

        “Pure, unadulterated misinformation Ian.”

        Fair enough. So which bits on the immune response are “Pure, unadulterated misinformation Ian.”?

        I suspect neither you or b.nice will be responding.

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          Forrest Gardener

          You’re a smart guy. You know what you had in mind. Figure out which bit is not pure unadulturated misinformation and get back to us.

          He who asserts must prove and you were the one asserting.

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            Ian

            I wasn’t asserting anything just passing on the conclusions drawn by the authors of the article on which this thread is based.

            That article was initially put on this site by Jo. As she was clearly the initial asserter why’d you not ask her “to prove her assertions?

            Or was it stuff from the Conversation. Hopefully not because that article was presenting an overview of data on the roles of different cells in the immune response. These data are not by any means new and are readily available in most encyclopaedias eg https://www.britannica.com/science/killer-T-cell

            If it is something that was not discussed in either of the articlesI mentioned I fail to see why I should be described as the “asserter” but to show my willingness to communicate, the link below is of interest regarding cells and the immune response to Covid as it discusses recent advances in understanding the cellular response.

            https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-00436-4

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              Forrest Gardener

              Ian, discerning readers will be able to pick out several assertions in what you wrote. But you now say you do not wish to stand by any of them.

              So be it.

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                Ian

                Equally FG I see you haven’t yet advised what these assertions are. Why is that? You’ve had plenty of time so you are obviously unable to do so.

                And Amen to that

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                Forrest Gardener

                Right back at you Ian.

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                Ian

                “Right back at you Ian.”

                Fair enough FG it is 8.30 pm in Perth as I write so apologies for the following which is “I quite enjoy the repartee That said, It’s possibly a comment I will regret. But that’s the way it goes.”

                Regards

                Ian

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      Leo G

      Interesting that the conclusion of the article isn’t given.

      The “conclusion” which you have quoted appears in the abstract and not in the body of the report.

      The unstated conclusion appears to be about the benefit of successive vaccination at no more than 8 week vaccination intervals to maintain a benefit with respect to confirmed omicron infection, and about the significantly reduced effectiveness against severe illness at vaccination intervals greater than 4 months.

      The implication is that the optimum vaccination interval to reduce risk of serious infection is somewhere between
      4 weeks and 4 months.

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        Ian

        Below is the conclusion given in the body of the report

        Overall, these analyses provided evidence for the effectiveness of a fourth vaccine dose against severe illness caused by the omicron variant, as compared with a third dose administered more than 4 months earlier. For confirmed infection, a fourth dose appeared to provide only short-term protection and a modest absolute benefit. Several reports have indicated that the protection against hospital admission conferred by a third dose given more than 3 months earlier is substantially lower against the omicron variant than the protection of a fresh third dose against hospital admission for illness caused by the B.1.617.2 (delta) variant.1,10,11 In our study, a fourth dose appeared to increase the protection against severe illness relative to three doses that were administered more than 4 months earlier.

        https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2201570

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          Forrest Gardener

          Ok Ian.

          You’ve now confessed that what you claimed above to be the conclusion was not in fact in the body of the report. And in doing so your premise that Jo misrepresented the article disappears.

          Anything further?

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            Ian

            You’ve now confessed that what you claimed above to be the conclusion was not in fact in the body of the report.
            “And in doing so your premise that Jo misrepresented the article disappears”.

            Anything further?”

            Yes. Quite a bit.

            I made no premise just stated the conclusion was not quoted in the article that was put on this site which is a fact. As is a apparent there was no suggestion of misrepresentation just a statement of fact

            The conclusion appeared not just once but twice. First on the opening page of the article linked to by Jo

            BACKGROUND
            On January 2, 2022, Israel began administering a fourth dose of BNT162b2 vaccine…
            METHODS
            Using the Israeli Ministry of Health database, we extracted data on 1,252,331 persons who were 60 years of age or older…..
            RESULTS
            The number of cases of severe Covid-19 per 100,000 person-days (unadjusted rate)……
            CONCLUSIONS
            Rates of confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and severe Covid-19 were lower after a fourth dose of BNT162b2 vaccine than after only three doses. Protection against confirmed infection appeared short-lived, whereas protection against severe illness did not wane during the study period.

            This is the conclusion I posted originally and on which Leo G commented. As is apparent it is not in the Abstract per se but on a summation page

            Having read Leo G’s comment I wrote the conclusion that was in the body of the paper. It is below

            “Overall, these analyses provided evidence for the effectiveness of a fourth vaccine dose against severe illness caused byhe omicron variant, as compared with a third dose administered more than 4 months earlier. For confirmed infection, a fourth dose appeared to provide only short-term protection and a modest absolute benefit. Several reports have indicated that the protection against hospital admission conferred by a third dose given more than 3 months earlier is substantially lower against the omicron variant than the protection of a fresh third dose against hospital admission for illness caused by the B.1.617.2 (delta) variant.1,10,11 In our study, a fourth dose appeared to increase the protection against severe illness relative to three doses that were administered more than 4 months earlier.

            Clearly Jo had two “conclusions” to choose from

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              Forrest Gardener

              Ian, bevity is the soul of wit. You could simply have said you had nothing further to add because you added nothing.

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                Ian

                “you had nothing further to add because you added nothing.”

                I certainly did I added the second conclusion ensuring you would know there were two

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                Forrest Gardener

                No Ian. You don’t get to go back and argue your case all over again.

                When you attack people you need to get it right first time.

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            What a strange argument. Scientific abstracts routinely (ie it is required) include a short version of the conclusions that are in the body. There is no deception in stating the abstracted conclusion.

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      Mark Allinson

      “Comments on this site rarely touch on the long term effects of vaccination”

      Do you have any data on the long term effects of the mRNA vaxxes?

      Actually, no one has any data because there has not been a long term in which to find out.

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      RickWill

      whereas protection against severe illness did not wane during the study period.

      Australia has very high proportion of the population vaccinated against Covid. At this stage it is not slowing the spread but it is certainly keeping the fatality rate low:
      https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countries&highlight=Russia&show=highlight-only&y=both&scale=linear&data=mortalityRate-daily-7&data-source=jhu&xaxis=right-12wk-wks&extra=United%20States%2CUnited%20Kingdom%2CAustralia#countries

      Australia currently averaging 0.05% case fatality rate while USA, Russia and UK are still up around 1.5%. I do not think Australian hospitals or case reporting are that much better than other countries. The only significant difference is the level of vaccination.

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    OldOzzie

    covid-outbreak-on-100-vaccinated-cruise-ship

    Princess Cruises requires all passengers and crew members to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19. Yet, a ship of only vaccinated individuals recently docked in San Francisco after experiencing a COVID outbreak. “Guests and crew vaccination rates were at 100 percent,” the company confirmed after saying it has been operating under CDC guidelines for the entire pandemic.

    Around 70% of cruise liners reported layoffs and furloughs due to the pandemic. The industry lost at least $63 billion between 2020 and 2021 when cruise ships were either prohibited from operating or experienced a decline in travelers due to fear. There are numerous examples of cruise ships experiencing COVID outbreaks despite vaccination mandates to board.

    The CDC recently lowered cruise ship risks to “moderate; level 2” after deeming them “highest-risk- level 4” after the initial omicron outbreak. They never prohibited cruises during flu season or nearly dismantled an entire industry for a virus with a negligible death rate.

    The vaccine does not prevent infection.

    The vaccine does not prevent transmission. This is yet another unintentional case study proving that this was never “a pandemic of the unvaccinated.”

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      Klem

      Where I live 85% of current Covid hospitalized patients are fully vaccinated, almost half of them have had the booster shot. As well, 75% of Covid deaths since December were people who were fully vaccinated.

      Its remarkable that when our health officials report these numbers every week, not a single journalist asks a question about it. Not one.

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    John Connor II

    Raw VAERS Data Over Past 15 Months: 68,000% Increase in Strokes, 44,000% Increase in Heart Disease, 6,800% Increase in Deaths Over Non-COVID Vaccines

    https://adversereactionreport.com/breaking-news/raw-vaers-data-over-past-15-months-68000-increase-in-strokes-44000-increase-in-heart-disease-6800-increase-in-deaths-over-non-covid-vaccines/

    The unvaxxed are not getting sick. The elephant in the room.

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    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    Is there an end to boosters? Is the arm long enough?
    https://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/image-31.jpeg

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      David Maddison

      Very funny!

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      Simon Thompson

      Well it is telling that 20% of the Pop has had the ‘Vid so expecting 96% to get “boosted” is a big ask. Seems about 30% of the people have woken up and will be Jabbed thrice unwillingly. I was only ever expecting 30% Jab rate, but things suddenly stopped being consensual. How man have told me “I had to to keep working!”.
      Five Million “Breakthrough” – a weird term for failure- (war is peace, ignorance is strength etc) cases and counting. Does anyone want to guess the final figure, given that the natural immunity of Cruise passengers was about 70% ?

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    David Maddison

    Just so no one misses out on their share of COVID “vaccine” paradise, ATAGI recommends that if you can’t inject a patient when they are fully cognisant, you can SEDATE them.

    https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/atagi-advice-on-use-of-sedation-for-covid-19-vaccination

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    UK-Weather Lass

    It would be rather nice for someone to say what a rattling good job is being done by those who have natural immunity via viral attack but no infection or infection and recovery, rather than mandating that everyone needs to be reduced to the state of the unknown via ‘risky’ vaccinations which could produce a state where a future mutation could run riot.

    That was once Public Health 101 during the initial wave of an influenza virus attack. In other words you became aware of the attack because someone you know was off work for a week or so and would complain about their symptoms in a normal, often exagerrated, human way. And there are always those for whom the infection is much more serious regardless of the presence of a vaccination or not.

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      Kalm Keith

      And that just emphasizes the difficulty in assembling meaningful data from such a situation.

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    Philip

    My tactic has always been to go under the radar until the hype is over and the virus has spread widely and reduced potency. I’ve always noticed how people go nuts over a topic then forget about it very quickly. Like dieting, they obsess about it then in a short while go back to ice creams and diet coke at the service station.

    Many people I know took the vaccine so they would be allowed to go to a restaurant and bar, or get a haircut. Can you that believe that ? Now, just a short time after, I (not vaccinated) can go anywhere they can (except to Bali). Under the radar theory was going well.

    Dr John Campbell pleaded Australians to get vaccinated once omicron started spreading here because we will “all get it within 2-3 weeks”, without doubt he could not have been more sure. That was what, 8 weeks ago now, possibly more ? Yet still not many have had it which makes me very disappointed. The longer it takes the more I risk getting it.

    Most I know don’t question any of the medical advice. I think they’re prepared to take 10 or 20 shots, they really don’t care. Though some have balked at the booster. Habits are back to normal no one distances or washes hands. Masks are most certainly gone. They’re even back to coming to work with a filthy cold (Australians only use sick days for nice sunny days of good health).

    I love observing human behavior.

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      Scissor

      Despite being young and healthy, my daughter living in Victoria was forced to take 2 jabs and a booster jab in order to keep her job. Each jab produced worse side effects, headaches, low-grade fever. Less than two weeks after the booster she came down with covid and then chest pains. She seems to be making a full recovery, but I’m concerned.

      Such bull shit.

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    Philip

    It is just extraordinary, that when there was no virus around, people were isolating and wearing masks, dobbing in neighbours and obeying all dictates of the government. Now, with the virus about more than ever, and vaccine effectiveness waning, they don’t do anything to avoid it, nothing.

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    Paul Cottingham

    The August 13th to September 30th 2019 timeline for the Wuhan lab leak.

    August 13th to August 16th 2019:
    The Crimson Contagion 2019 Functional Exercise, based on a virus that originates in China. The scenario starts off with tourists becoming ill in China, and then departing China and flying back to their respective countries: https://governmentattic.org/38docs/HHSaarCrimsonContAAR_2020.pdf

    August 16th to August 22nd 2019, and then from 12th September 2019:
    The Wuhan Institute of Virology, removed its online viral genome databases: https://drive.google.com/file/d/181PuoBwcno2rf9HNbSEK4yuabVkLGyGc/view In close cooperation with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349073738_An_investigation_into_the_WIV_databases_that_were_taken_offline

    September 2019:
    Covid then appeared in Italy in September 2019: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0300891620974755 and https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13206255/covid-plagued-eu-september-2019-italy/

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    another ian

    “Vaccinated Have Up To SIX Times the Infection Rate of Unvaccinated, New Zealand Government Data Show”

    https://dailysceptic.org/2022/04/09/vaccinated-have-up-to-six-times-the-infection-rate-of-unvaccinated-new-zealand-government-data-show/

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    David Maddison

    It’s quite disturbing having someone close to you such as a friend or relative that is, even today, utterly obsessed with avoiding getting the virus and won’t associate with anyone less than triple vaxxed, is constantly sanitising their hands, won’t get in a lift/elevator with anyone, and wearing a mask in situations where it is not compulsory.

    A name is needed for such behaviour. I was thinking of something akin to Trump Derangement Syndrome like COVID Derangement Syndrome.

    Do you know anyone like this?

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    another ian

    “WHY ARE HEALTHY ATHLETES COLLAPSING”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjQVxIssC7s

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