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UK Study finds Covid spreads just as easily from infected people who are Vaccinated

Covid, Coronavirus, Bioweapons.A new study shows vaccinated people are about 40% less likely to catch Covid, but if or when they do catch it they pose the same risk to the people close to them regardless of their vaccination status.

The study also confirmed that vaccinated immunity was falling within three months of vaccination. Presumably, if a vaccinated person is 40% less likely to catch Covid in the first place, then being vaccinated will reduce the odds of bringing the SARS virus home on any given day. But given that protection wanes so quickly and Covid has such a high exponential rate of spread, a temporary 40% reduction of the risk of catching the virus is not game-changing.

Relying on vaccination as the sole magic tool to suppress Covid is a fantasy that suits Big Pharma but not The People. And the Big Bad Risk of nastier variants coming from these super leaky vaccinees doesn’t even get a mention. Read the post on the dark vaccine-induced evolution of Marek’s disease in chickens. The arms race generated by 50 years of leaky-vaxxes turned a 1% killer into a 100% killer. We should not be mass vaccinating with a leaky vaccine unless we use an antiviral as well.

The Imperial College study shows that draconian rules isolating the unvaccinated from the vaccinated are not medically justified. Put another way, an unvaccinated person infected with Covid is no more likely to spread the virus than a vaccinated person.

The Imperial College study followed 621 people, and was unusually detailed in measuring the load curves of viral titres as they rise and fall. They found that when infected, both the vaxxed and unvaxxed reached similar peak levels of virus, which supports the idea that they are both just as infectious.

The Urgent need for Early Treatment

By measuring viral loads daily the Imperial College team confirmed that the initial rise of the virus is extraordinarily rapid for the first three days until it peaks. They also found that the early replication rate of the virus goes on to determine the trajectory of the whole infection. So action in the first few days is imperative. People who had the fastest rise and highest peaks also had the longest declines. It seems that whatever it is that slowed the infection in some people in the early days also helped to clear the virus faster. The authors don’t expand on this, but many other studies show early treatment, and especially prophylactic treatment is the most useful.

It is madness to send people home without an early treatment kit, and madness not to give that kit to all the household contacts to use before they get infected. That was the extremely successful tactic used in Uttar Pradesh which largely eliminated the virus.

Vaccinated People Easily Transmit COVID-19 Delta Variant in Households: UK Study

The Epoch Times

A year-long study from the Imperial College London published in The Lancet on Thursday found that the Delta variant is still highly transmissible within a vaccinated population.

Their study, which surveyed 621 participants, found that of 205 household contacts of people who had the Delta infection, about 38 percent of household contacts who were not vaccinated tested positive, compared with 25 percent who tested positive among vaccinated household contacts.

“By carrying out repeated and frequent sampling from contacts of COVID-19 cases, we found that vaccinated people can contract and pass on infection within households, including to vaccinated household members,” Dr. Anika Singanayagam, co-lead author of the study, said in a statement.

Immunity from full vaccination also dropped in as little as three months, their research also found.

But the critical line from the paper talks about the “secondary attack rate” (confusingly known as SAR) which means the rate of infections the primary case causes.

We identified similar SAR (25%) in household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases as in those exposed to unvaccinated index cases (23%). This finding indicates that breakthrough infections in fully vaccinated people can efficiently transmit infection in the household setting.

What about natural protection — The big invisible factor?

One of the major limitations of this study is that it doesn’t even mention previous infections or natural immunity at all. It’s like a blindness. Some of the unvaccinated and the vaccinated in the UK have already had Covid and have natural protection which appears to be better and longer lasting. So the statistics are pooled values. Are prior infections more likely in the unvaccinated or the vaccinated groups?  If the number of prior infections is higher in the unvaccinated group the study will underestimate the benefits of vaccination for people with no immunity. But if prior infections are more likely in the vaccinated that will make the vaccine appear to be more protective than it is. They could have done antibody testing on both groups and found this out. Even though vaccinated people have antibodies to the spike protein, people with natural protection have antibodies to the nucleocapsid as well.

If someone was infected with Covid they would go on to infect about a quarter of their household. This seems rather low compared to studies on the original Wuhan variant in the early part of last year. The reduced spread is probably explained by both vaccination and natural protection. But people may also be changing behaviour and reducing their contact with the newly diagnosed cases. Perhaps some are treating themselves “off label” to stop the spread as well.

Those viral load curves

The details on the rapid growth of the virus in the early days reinforces the need to do early treatment or even better — prophylactic care. Most people don’t get symptoms til after the viral load peaks — they won’t even know the virus is multiplying unless a close contact has tested positive. And if that early treatment can reduce the rate of growth of the virus, it will also likely reduce the length of the illness and infection.

These are log scale graphs, so even a small decline in the initial rate of rise could make the infection much less severe and much less infectious.

Viral loads Early Wuhan variant. Graphed.

Viral loads Early Wuhan variant. (Click to see all samples)

Viral loads with the delta variant declined slightly faster as did viral loads in the vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated.

 

Viral loads-delta

Viral loads of Delta infections. (Click to see all samples)

 

From the paper itself:

Vaccination was found to be effective in reducing household transmission of the alpha variant (B.1.1.7) by 40–50%…

Our findings help to explain how and why the delta variant is being transmitted so effectively in populations with high vaccine coverage.

Here’s a complicated way of saying that vaccinated people who tested positive were more likely to be the ones who got vaccinated longer than 2 or 3 months ago.

The time interval between vaccination and study recruitment was significantly higher in fully vaccinated PCR-positive contacts than fully vaccinated PCR-negative contacts, suggesting that susceptibility to infection increases with time as soon as 2–3 months after vaccination—consistent with waning protective immunity.

In this case, about 1 in 4 contacts became infected, which was a lot higher than the 10% risk that past UK studies had found (probably because testing was inadequate).

Household SAR [Secondary Attack Rate] for delta infection, regardless of vaccination status, was 26% (95% CI 20–32), which is higher than estimates of UK national surveillance data (10·8% [10·7–10·9]). However, we sampled contacts daily, regardless of symptomatology, to actively identify infection with high sensitivity. By contrast, symptom-based, singletimepoint surveillance testing probably underestimates SAR, and potentially also overestimates vaccine effectiveness against infection.

So there were probably more silent infections in the UK that past studies didn’t find, that made the vaccines look more useful at stopping the spread of infections than they really are.

Older people had higher peak loads (which is probably part of the reason they get sicker from Covid):

We found no evidence of variation in peak viral load by variant or vaccination status, but we report some evidence of modest but significant (pp=0·95) increases in peak viral load with age.

It’s surprising that they didn’t find a higher peak load in Delta cases (as past studies have) but then, people with past natural infections and natural protection are more common now. Perhaps that brings the viral load down?

Another big unknown — how many vaccinated people even turn up for testing?

We found no evidence of lower SARs from fully vaccinated delta index cases than from  unvaccinated ones. However, given that index cases were identified through routine  symptomatic surveillance, there might have been a selection bias towards identifying untypically symptomatic vaccine breakthrough index cases.

hat tip to Scott of the Pacific

REFERENCES

Anika Singanayagam et al (2021) Community transmission and viral load kinetics of the SARS-CoV-2 delta (B.1.617.2) variant in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in the UK: a prospective, longitudinal, cohort study Lancet 

SAR [Secondary Attack Rate]

9.5 out of 10 based on 63 ratings

284 comments to UK Study finds Covid spreads just as easily from infected people who are Vaccinated

  • #
    George McFly......I'm your density

    Great work Jo. Thanks as always.

    210

  • #
    Hanrahan

    The vaxxed 40% less likely to catch the infection than the unvaccinated means you can NEVER reach herd immunity, the leakage is too high. IMHO

    330

    • #
      yarpos

      Herd immunity doesnt sell vaccines

      400

    • #
      Joao Martins

      ” … means you can NEVER reach herd immunity … ” …

      with mRNA vaccines.

      Because those vaccines, based in only one or a few component molecules of the viral particle, will have the effect opposite to the one desired with a vaccine: they will create a selective pressure that will enhance the elimination of the old target and its replacement by new “variants”. And then the worst case of “Marek’s effect”: all the “training” of T-cells based in a very specific (and eventually already eliminated by natural selection) set of viral molecules preventing the “training” against a broader spectrum of components of the viral particle which could stabilize the equilibrium between humans and virus in a level more compatible with herd immunity.

      280

    • #
      Roger

      The vaxxed 40% less likely to catch the infection than the unvaccinated

      That is the opposite of what the latest statistics from the UK’s Health Security Agency which show that Covid cases per 100,000 of the UK population the vaccinated are running at around Twice the Rate of the unvaccinated. In other words you are more likely to catch Covid if you have been vaccinated albeit it less likely to end up in hospital.

      This begs the question, as others are now looking, as to what is it that makes you more vulnerable to Covid as double vaxxed that being unvaccinated? (I know several young sports people people who were double vaxxed in recent months, never previously affected but now have Covid – and that is not touching on the two very fit, healthy young rugby players at clubs we know who died soon after being vaxxed)

      Article on latest UKHSA figures with the data : https://dailysceptic.org/2021/10/30/hide-the-vaccine-failure-ukhsa-caves-to-pressure-and-removes-chart-showing-higher-infection-rates-in-the-vaccinated-as-effectiveness-hits-new-low-of-minus-132/

      Article covering possible / likely connection between double vax and greater risk of catching Covid : https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/the-jab-makes-it-easier-for-the-virus-to-spread-who-will-stop-this-madness/

      70

  • #
    Ian1946

    Eventually the effects of ADE will start to show especially after the 3rd and 4th booster shots which will make the fully vaccinated more susceptible to any future variant. Is this the reason Victoria are no longer releasing the vaccination status of the people who unfortunately die from the virus.

    630

    • #
      Scissor

      Eventually, boosters lead to vaxxocide.

      480

      • #
        OldOzzie

        COVID aged care deaths down, but fully vaccinated residents still vulnerable

        Government data, released to the ABC, has revealed 36 of the 49 aged care residents that died after contracting COVID-19 during NSW’s Delta outbreak were fully vaccinated.

        All had underlying health conditions or were in palliative care.

        Until now, the overall number last year’s deaths in NSW aged care facilities had been reported weekly by the Federal Department of Health and their vaccination status occasionally mentioned in NSW Health daily updates, but no cumulative figure had been publicly released.

        190

        • #
          tonyb

          Todays edition of daily sceptic is interesting for several articles about the effectiveness or not of vaccines and data on net zero, so I have linked to it in full rather than a specific article.

          I understand that some states-no, not yours Jo- are releasing their inmates into the wider world, with travel to the UK and elsewhere being possible, but not some inter state travel.

          Infections in OZ are likely to rise again in coming months and bearing in mind the waning effectiveness of vaccinations after a time and the ability of the vaccinated to catch it and pass it on, I assume Oz will lock down again when cases start rising after being exposed to the wider world.

          https://dailysceptic.org/todays-update/

          The UK’s apparently extremely high case rate is explained by up to ten times more testing than EU countries, also that the first vaccinations amongst the elderly and vulnerable were now nearly a year ago and nature will take its course, as well as waning effect of the vaccine.

          So if you want to visit elsewhere do it now before the draconian restrictions return and the majority who seem to like lockdowns will say triumphantly ‘told you so, we need to stay in our homes all day whilst wearing masks.’

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          • #

            l’m betting we get through xmass so maybe around a three month reprieve so we can forget a little
            but then especially if these new laws are past it will be bedlam for us in Vic
            lots more rubber bullets

            190

            • #
              tonyb

              Yes, unless a second generation vaccine is developed and you follow the countries like the UK who started vaccinations last December, it is difficult to see how you can avoid a fresh wave of covid once the effects starts to wane after 4/6 months.

              Boris is toughing it out despite the howls of protest from SAGE but the OZ states seem very keen to lockdown when case numbers are miniscule.

              So it will be interesting to see what happens. Whilst I will hope that a second generation vaccine will prevent a renewed covid wave in Oz, it seems prudent to use the next few months to get out and about and visit friends and family if that is what you want.

              71

            • #
              ColA

              The petition Jo put up last week got about 105,000 signatures, a good effort for something not well published but sadly I don’t think that will be enough to make an impression on the inteligencia!

              80

          • #
            Ian1946

            Thank you for the link Tony. There are some well researched articles. I have subscribed to their newsletter.

            50

          • #
            Roger

            Tonyb, as another reader of the Daily Sceptic, there are some exerpts below from my correspondence with the Secretary of State for Health (UK) that may interest you and others.

            Firstly here’s a puzzle that I think needs unravelling, and so far I’ve not seen any real questioning about it since last Autumn:

            In the UK, last year’s data showed that there were No cases of Flu …. and that’s just too hard to believe when there are normally 20-30,000 or more deaths a year from it…. government attempted to explain it away as due to a ‘lack of social contact’ although that clearly didn’t work with Covid!

            I’m beginning to wonder if Lateral Flow and PCR tests are showing positive responses to Flu , and maybe even the common cold which is a coronavirus. That would explain a very great deal – although if correct it would drive a coach and horses through the government’s “Covid Statistics” and even more so their “Pandemic Response” – probably not something they want tested or investigated.

            From my correspondence with 2 Secretaries of State for Health they will Not answer, and just ignore, the question why, when studies had shown in mid 2020 that 25% to 50%+ had natural immunity, did we not implement immunity testing and only vaccinate those who had none? That way – if you believe in mRNA “vaccines” – we would have spent half the money we did and done it in half the time. It has now taken 7 months, with chasing, to get responses which do not answer that or other questions !

            It may be coincidence that the recent reply (12th October from Savid Javid) to my queries in May (largely repeats from March) explains that a “UK-wide antibody testing surveillance programme, The Post-Positive PCR Antibody Testing Initiative (PPATI), has launched ….. carried out by NHS Test and TRace, and Public Health England (PHE) will lead on the reporting as data is produced.” Confirmed later in the letter is that PPATI hasn’t started yet when he writes “Those who are selected for the PPATI programme will receive two tests …

            Another question also remains ignored and unanswered “Why would you insist that NHS staff and Care Workers who have natural immunity be vaccinated, why not offer a T-Cell immunity test as an alternative”. Silence.

            A strange statement also came from Savid Javid in this letter :Immunity protection from contracting the virus may not be equal to that from a vaccine and experts are still unaware of exactly how long that protection lasts and how strong the immunity is.” Bear in mind his statement was made After, and contradicts the UK Health Standards Agency published data showing that the double vaxxed were Twice as likely to catch Covid as were the unvaccinated – figures based on per 100,000. (You’ve probably seen those at the Daily Sceptic).

            That statement begs the question why, after a year of vaxxing, are we only now going to start to find out whether vax is anywhere near as good as natural immunity and how long either lasts – in any sensible setup that should have started on day one of vaxxing.

            I think that the government “experts” have shown a pretty shambolic approach to all of it, have exhibited a total lack of commonsense and it needs to be properly exposed.

            50

            • #
              tonyb

              Roger

              All interesting questions, thank you. I won’t hold my breath that you will get answers. This flu matter being especially interesting. If you can catch Covid then you can catch flu

              I wonder if any of the Health secretaries are aware that mortality figures have been worse than 2020 every year from 2008 to the start of records in 1850? I am not aware of any mass panic in any of the years prior to 2008

              20

              • #
                Steve Keppel-Jones

                That is a good point, tonyb, although I have heard about some sort of mass panic in 1918. However, at least in the USA, the mortality rate that year was not unusual compared to the mortality rates of the previous decade, and I have also read that many or most of the people who were supposed to have died of the “flu” that year actually died of vaccine poisoning, or in some cases bacterial pneumonia from wearing masks too much. Sounds familiar…

                00

        • #
          Strop

          The important thing will be whether they died with covid or from covid. Would be good to know that.

          140

      • #
        TedM

        Some are convinced that is the objective.

        00

    • #
      Mark+Allinson

      “Eventually the effects of ADE will start to show …”

      That’s the point where the “fully vaxxed” become fully vexed.

      220

    • #
      OldOzzie

      Obligatory ignorance

      It is a curious thing that in the midst of a mass vaccination program of heretofore little used en masse vaccine delivery systems that OSHA adopts the following policy:


      Disclose.tv
      @disclosetv

      NEW – The U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) will not enforce 29 CFR 1904’s recording requirements to require employers to record worker side effects from #COVID19 vaccination.

      This left me thinking, what does OSHA’s antipodean relation, WorkSafe Victoria, do in this respect? Does it require employers to notify WorkSafe of any adverse events that occur following the administration of one of the three currently available COVID-19 vaccines or not? It certainly requires that employers notify WorkSafe of an positive cases of COVID among its workers. Looking at an employer’s obligations, it in fact doesn’t require that employers notify WorkSafe of any adverse events among its workers even when the vaccination is administered in the workplace!

      This is all the more extraordinary because employers in Victoria are being used by the state as its muscle, firstly bombarding them with pleas to vaccinate, then gaslighting them about potential adverse events often with the assistence of DoH personnel, and finally, presenting them with the choices of either getting vaccinated in order to remain at work or standing them down if they do get vaccinated.

      How that doesn’t violate the requirements of informed consent is still yet to be explained. It does, however, handball the problem of collation of any adverse events, to the Dept. of Health, requiring clinicians to report severe adverse events while the rest is to be left to individual patients themselves. But given the intellectual climate currently pervading the medical profession, which through its official organs, repeats ad nauseam the same lines generated by the government and BigPharma, this is hardly encouraging.

      60

  • #

    there will never be herd immunity form these so called vaccines
    how can there be if they cannot sterilise the virus so it just keeps going around and around like a dog chasing its tail, the antivirals are the missing link but where would the elites make the money from
    and that IMHO is what its about
    l do not care if its a little bit better to be Jabbed at the cost of your N antibodies

    its like the experts who say there is no scientific evidence to prove the Ivermectin works
    who cares, look at what has worked for other countries

    440

    • #
      Deano

      “Even though vaccinated people have antibodies to the spike protein, people with natural protection have antibodies to the nucleocapsid as well.”

      Jo – thanks for pointing this out. I know nothing about how the complicated infection fighting system of our bodies works but, I’m curious at the official advice that natural immunity isn’t enough – you MUST HAVE the vaccine. If the vaccines work by using the mRNA to produce temporary spike proteins which then trigger a response, what’s the difference between that and the real thing triggering the same response?

      Just one of the many questions never discussed in the MSM.

      180

      • #
        Gerry

        Deano, I have a rudimentary knowledge that helps make sense of most of the discussion….I got it from some great videos put out on NHK News Japan (in English) called Medical Frontiers ….look around the website …

        10

      • #

        I contracted covid and had little to no symptoms.The nurse from the Health Dept said I had better immunity than any vaxed people and would produce anti bodies for decades.Then suggested I get vaxed to be extra immune.Said I’d pass and rely on my immune system.She then told me natural immunity will never be recognised due to the fear young people would deliberately try to get covid .

        30

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    This is the kicker :

    https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/

    “However, the peak levels of virus in vaccinated people were similar to those in unvaccinated people.
    “The researchers believe this may explain why the delta variant is still able to spread despite vaccination.”

    Put another way – the vaccine appears to have no real benefit in terms of stopping people aquiring and also transmitting the virus, which you would have thought is the main reason to have a vaccine.

    Ergo, why bother.

    *sigh*

    [Forgive my correction. They acquire it less, perhaps temporarily, but transmit it just as much. – Jo]

    100

    • #

      in fact you are right IMHO OriginalSteve

      before the CDC cancel cultured the definition of a Vaccine
      it was “a vaccine sterilizes the disease/virus and gives you immunity”
      even if this study reports the vaccinated acquire the virus less by 40%,
      if we can believe the study is not bias
      there is no real benefit if the vaccinated can still acquire the virus by 60% and spread it by 100%
      the so called vaccine will never give herd immunity,
      so why compromise your natural immunity when 99.9% will recover from this virus

      here is a simple calculator for Australians to see their chances of dying from Covid-19 using various government reported data
      https://mycovidodds.org/?fbclid=IwAR2SUffXWel5EGzkT9cCy-N1y_3CSbv1Ny1qqh1rAn6IvpFk_0zk16bKY9Y

      80

      • #
        markx

        C’mon Marksman… that’s just ‘making sh*t up’.

        CDC cancel cultured the definition of a Vaccine
        it was “a vaccine sterilizes the disease/virus and gives you immunity”

        M

        No-one involved in immunology has EVER said that vaccines ‘sterilise the disease”. (what does that even mean?) and they all know that immunity exists and is enhanced on a scale of near zero to near 100%, with huge variability occurring within and between pathogens, vaccines and individuals.

        By the way, that is an excellent analysis, explanation and summary of the article by Jo. That’s truly a talent to be able to explain research so clearly.

        45

        • #

          no l’m not making sh!t up LOL
          that is the definition l have copied and pasted to posts on this forum before the experts decided to change it, and it was changed very quietly by the way to suit these new experimental Jabs that are not even considered a vaccine without an EUA
          not being involved in immunology l would not have a clue what they have EVER said and dont pretend to
          l do know there is quite a lot of confliction amongst this crowd depending on who they work for or not
          since the CDC’s change of the definition of a vaccine it is the only one available
          cancel culture, it never happened

          by the way, l totally agree with Jo on the importance of the use of early treatments and believe that is what we all should be working toward
          but the experts are making the treatments illegal aren’t they because they know better

          120

          • #

            The definition is unchanged. Grab a text book from the 1980s if you want to check. Just because you have been pasting nonsense does not make you right.

            graphene lol

            119

          • #
            markx

            Yes, it has changed< Marksman, but in a very sensible way, and with no mention of the non-scientific fictional phrasing you quote.
            Geez, there must be a lot of cellar dwellers out there just making sh*t up.

            From Shorties Verificat site:
            T

            his change has provoked comments from vaccine sceptics, who believe that the change is motivated by the increase in infections that are occurring in the covid-19 vaccinated population. Nevertheless, no vaccine that has ever been approved is 100% effective. Both the World Health Organisation (WHO) and the CDC state this on their websites, and we at Verificat in this infographic, where we point out that not even the smallpox vaccine, the only disease eradicated in humans in history, is infallible.

            The McClatchy news agency managed to contact a spokesperson for the centre, who said that the real reason is that the previous definitions could be interpreted to mean that vaccines “were 100% effective, which has not been the case for any vaccine”, so the current definition “is more transparent”. In any case, they add, “it is important to emphasise that the changes to the definition do not change the fact that vaccines and the act of vaccination have prevented millions of infections and saved countless lives”.

            https://www.verificat.cat/vaccines/entry/why-has-the-cdc-changed-the-definition-of-a-vaccine

            CDC: Immunization: The Basics
            Definition of Terms
            Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

            Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

            Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease.

            Immunization: A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation.
            https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

            Before the change, the definition for “vaccination” read, “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” Now, the word “immunity” has been switched to “protection.”

            Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article254111268.html#storylink=cpy

            16

            • #
              mobihci

              “who believe that the change is motivated by the increase in infections that are occurring in the covid-19 vaccinated population”

              what the hell is that crap? what are they trying to say, that it is normal for a vaccine to drop to useless after less than a year? this is just pathetic. anybody that trusts people who push that form of propaganda have rocks in their heads.

              Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

              hmm it seems to me that it was close enough for virtually all past vaccines for people not to question the odd breakthrough case, but with this one, like the flu shot, there is a change to THE VACCINES that require any sane, reasonable person to question the definition of a “vaccine”. to most it would seem appropriate to keep the word vaccine for a true vaccine, not this leaky trash that has come about over the past decade.

              50

            • #

              l think l would rather listen to Dr Christina Parks PHD in cellular and molecular biology
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DOOZpGA_VI&t=1s

              you are sounding like a salesman for the WHO org who shifts the goal posts often markx,
              a bit shifty LOL

              50

    • #
      tonyb

      I think the biggest benefit is that the vaccinated are much less likely to become as ill as otherwise they might have done.

      As regards side effects, in our region of 100,000 people-with a high proportion of pensioners and 92% double vaccination-there has been absolutely no sign of the dire side effects often referenced here.

      So the vaccination is worthwhile to most-especially the 0ver 50’s or the vulnerable- but probably give you a false sense of the degree of protection offered, meaning the unwary might be out and about and mixing in a less cautious manner than the unvaccinated

      213

      • #
        David Maddison

        All that may be true, until the vaccine protection wanes to insignificant levels after just months or the leaky vaccine enables the evolution of an extremely deadly mutation.

        And especially when antivirals are banned as in Australia and there is little support for two proper vaccines under development, InGeneIC and Covax. Plus there is limited accessibility to monoclonal antibodies for covid treatment.

        20

  • #
    John Hultquist

    https://www.treatearly.org/fluvoxamine

    Overview
    Early research suggests that fluvoxamine, an FDA approved medication for depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, can be an effective early treatment for COVID-19. Fluvoxamine, created 37 years ago, is an inexpensive and widely available generic drug.

    (much more)

    270

  • #
    David Maddison

    The beauty of covid-19 for both Big Pharma and totalitarian governments such as in Australia’s Vicdanistan is that current treatment and management methods will ensure that it will never be cured or rendered extinct and so they can keep producing new booster “vaccines” and imposing more lockdowns and other totalitarian controls indefinitely.

    Why do you think Australia has banned anti-virals and provides little or no support for Australian non-mRNA vaccines such as Covax or InGeneIC?

    And why is Australia one of the few countries with extreme vaccine mandates (which the PM says we don’t have) and among the world’s most extreme lock downs and travel restrictions.

    It’s only a matter of time before the present vaccines result in the inevitable evolution of an unstoppable strain (or the Chicomms release the next version of their bioweapon) and then we are doomed.

    400

    • #
      OldOzzie

      THE THIRD development

      has been the frenetic response by media and government to an orchestrated campaign by pharmaceutical giant Merck promoting its re-purposed antiviral agent, Molnupiravir, before significant data assessment has been completed. Merck is now joined by Roche and Pfizer with their versions of re-positioned “wonder drugs”. All have limited and conflicting data yet make extravagant claims. These antivirals are less effective than IVM and none have acceptable safety profiles. However, we see the Australian government making extraordinary claims and committing large sums to acquire these unproven oral therapies. Who can be advising government to allow such dubious claims and acquisitions at the expense of IVM and the Australian taxpayer?

      430

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day OO,
        ” Who can be advising government to allow such dubious claims … ”
        “Advising” is rather weak. “Dictating” would be more accurate IMHO. And the answer is: “The Pfizer contract”.
        Cheers
        Dave B

        160

    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      Journalist: “And Professor Skerritt, can I ask you, is this three shots and you’re done?

      Or are you going to be getting, every six months, you’ll have to get another booster shot?”

      Prof. John Skerritt: “Unfortunately, I wasn’t issued with a crystal ball when I got this job.“*

      https://www.health.gov.au/ministers/the-hon-greg-hunt-mp/media/minister-hunts-press-conference-in-canberra-on-27-october-2021-on-tga-approves-pfizer-booster-shot-roll-out-and-vaccination-shots-prepared-for-5-11-year-olds

      >> Even when he gets his crystal balls, I wouldn’t trust him, even if I watched him conjure up the answer!

      *Note – transcript records words as:
      (“Unfortunately, it was an issued with a crystal ball when I got this job.”)
      Listen option available at link.

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    David Maddison

    VIDEOS

    1) US Video about how hospitals are now inundated with Regular sick people, not covid.

    https://youtu.be/XnIWRxLYXEs

    2) A “super cold” is spreading, not covid.

    https://youtu.be/qw9wSk_cKbg

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      shortie+of+greenbank

      this would be interesting to track whether this is weakened immune response due to heightened immune response from recent vaccination.

      It is a well known but little discussed topic. The best trial on this was done for the flu shot in 2009 on children, they gave half of a small randomised cohort a saline shot instead and tracked both groups for 9 months. After the 9 months they recorded a 440% increase in non-flu pneumonia cases for the vaccinated… even if this was trash epidemiology that would almost be a slam dunk confirmation but instead it was a decently monitored RCT, albeit a small number of about 120 children.

      This should always be in your calculations for specific vaccinations i.e. the increased association with other viral infections negative outcomes from vaccination, rare as it can be v increased ‘protection’ against a virus that isn’t all that bad for the majority, even more so with early and cheap treatment.

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    OldOzzie

    We Can’t Vaccinate This Pandemic Away
    31st October 2021

    Robert Clancy
    The author is Emeritus Professor of Pathology at the University of Newcastle Medical School. He is a member of the Australian Academy of Science’s COVID-19 Expert Database

    In an Australian context, by New Year 2022, it is estimated about two million vaccinated Australians will have lost protection against infection and mild disease. Infections will increase as borders are opened and we re-enter the international community.

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/public-health/2021/10/we-cant-vaccinate-this-pandemic-away/

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      OldOzzie

      Antigen-based vaccines such as NovaVax with its strong metrics on efficacy and safety, need to be considered. It is understood this vaccine will be available by year’s end; indeed, on October 29 an application for provisional approval was filed with the TGA. Yet the Australian government continues to support genetic vaccines. Who can be advising the politicians on such a concerning course?

      Bureaucrats appear to make critical decisions for political reasons, while doctors are threatened with de-registration for supporting early drug treatment because it may affect vaccine roll-out. It is easy to conclude the system has been corrupted. The question is, who pulls the strings?

      Part of the answer is that transnational organisations, such as WHO and mega pharmaceutical companies, have imprinted their political and commercial agendas all over the COVID-19 story. The genesis of their power play appears to reside in the terms of their confidential contracts with national governments. From the inadequate “investigation” of the Wuhan source of the virus to its refusal to admit IVM is the reason for successful COVID-19 control in Uttar Pradesh and its suppression of all cheap and readily available early treatments, the WHO cannot be trusted to lead the world out of the pandemic. Pharmaceutical companies subvert any evidence supporting cheap medications that threaten their profits.

      Conflict exist at every level with cross-appointments between pharmaceutical companies, government bodies with financial interests in pharmaceutical companies, and research grants from pharmaceutical companies. The US Food & Drug Administration has long been a nursery for highly paid lobbyists and careers within the pharmaceutical industry.

      If an example is needed to illustrate how distorted the system has become, go no further than Merck’s promotion of Molnupiravir and the cynical support given by politicians, academics and media only weeks after “cancelling” cheap, available, safer and more effective re-purposed drugs. Since the FDA in the US became funded through high application fees from the pharmaceutical companies, a shift in acceptance of expensive drugs offering little advantage over existing unpatented drugs has been noted.

      How will the TGA and its advisers handle this crisis? How can a quality information trail be provided to politicians? The Nebraska ruling on IVM, noted and linked above, has gone viral around the world. The question is, will legal sanity be sufficient to counter the pharmaceutical lobby and pressures they will bring on regulatory bodies? We all must live in hope!

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      Surftilidie

      My wife and I recently went to the doctor to have our ears de-waxed. While there, my wife asked the doctor if it was possible for her to have a blood test to see if she had COVID antibodies, as she was ill with a cold when all this started in March/April last year, and thought that she might have contracted a mild form of the virus at that time. The doctor informed us that if he carried out such a test, he would be liable for a fine of $50 000. We were both staggered by this. When we asked him why this was so, he told us that there would be a rush on such tests from the general public.

      I am a maths teacher in a local secondary school. My boss recently informed all the staff that we had to get vaccinated by the start of next year to be allowed on the school property. The fine for me if I remained unvaccinated and attempted to enter the school grounds would be $20 000 and the fine for the school if it allowed an unvaccinated teacher to enter the school grounds would be $100 000. The fact that in 51 years of teaching I have had just one sick day (plus 5 injury days from a car accident plus sporting injuries);
      the fact that I have managed my health by
      (a) not consuming drugs of any kind for the past 50 odd years (including alcohol, cigarettes, antibiotics, analgesics, coffee)
      (b) maintaining largely a raw food diet (vegetarian, but mostly raw food)
      (c) maintaining a rigorous daily exercise routine;
      the fact that I have been exposed to a huge range of infections from infectious kids who come to schools and never been struck down by any of them;
      the fact that I have managed to avoid both the flu and the flu injection for my entire life,
      all counts for nothing when the bureaucrats decide that my level of health is the same as everyone else’s and therefore I need to subject myself to exactly the same treatment. And if I reject that treatment, I will be seriously penalized.
      I have told my boss that it is a very sad way to end my fairly successful teaching career, but that I wasn’t going to be part of a global health experiment.

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        Thank you for this information re fines – I had no idea that such fines were being imposed. Victoria?

        This is so far “out there” that it is just staggering in its implications. Yet, so many (not all) of the vaccinated just accept the escalation of the penalties for those not accepting these medical treatments.

        The equally appalling aspect is the intransigent medical position adopted that will not accept questioning.

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        Destroyer D69

        Similar response from my GP when asked to include a serum antibody test in my annual blood test series. The reply was simply”That is not available”No explanation offered but was followed with a comment that the vaccines are safe and that because of my age ,and consequent lowered immune response, any adverse cardiac events are less likely to occur!!!!!

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          OriginalSteve

          This is what is so dangerous about where this is all going – its no longer just about medicine, its a top down ideology that is in effecting being imposed on doctors, who then appear to be bascially forced to deny people the level of care they should have.

          “but was followed with a comment that the vaccines are safe and that because of my age ,and consequent lowered immune response, any adverse cardiac events are less likely to occur!!!!!”

          Yep…in other words, youre stuck with a dodgy vax, that if youre *really* lucky, wont kill or maim you.

          Thanks…..mate…..

          You should have asked for Ivermectin, that would have really stirred things up…..

          But maybe we need to start pushing doctors to prescribe what appears to work. Let them feel a bit of heat.

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            A friends daughter has Lupis and is on hydroxochloriquine.Her DR at the last visit gave her a larger prescription than usual and said give this to your husband,children and parents.Nudge nudge wink wink!

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        John+R+Smith

        Surftilidie,
        we can’t have kids understanding math, they’ll grow up dubious of government.
        Enjoying the surfing … since you’ll have more time … wait, dang, you’ll be confined in the Resilience Center.
        Oh well.
        At least you’ll be becoming more Resilient.

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        Strop

        The doctor informed us that if he carried out such a test, he would be liable for a fine of $50 000. We were both staggered by this. When we asked him why this was so, he told us that there would be a rush on such tests from the general public.

        Not sure the doctor actually answered why he would be fined.
        Does the fine specifically apply to a covid antibody test? Or to any doctor who offers a service that might lead to a high number of the public seeking the same service? Or does the fine apply to doctors who order what might be classified as unnecessary or frivolous services?
        Were doctors specifically informed they’d be fined for ordering antibody tests? If so, who informed them? Who issues the fine?

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        Analitik

        The doctor informed us that if he carried out such a test, he would be liable for a fine of $50 000.

        Odd. My doctor added to my blood test on request and thought it was a good idea (sadly, I was negative for the antibodies).

        I’m in Victoria so maybe it’s something McGowan dictated.

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          Scissor

          Antibodies don’t remain long when not needed by the body. Rather, memory cells are created to mount a response should the pathogen be encountered again in the future. So, while it might have been desirable to have detected antibodies, your particular result is inconclusive.

          In any case, proof of prior infection is being disregarded by the government/medical community, even though studies show natural immunity to be superior.

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            Nope… you assume that about “natural immunity” – there is no one “natural immunity” and immunizations for many diseases have been shown to be better than unplanned exposure. There are good reasons for this. Vaccines can be designed to activate the immune system well beyond that of “natural”.

            In any case here is an article about actual data

            Please do some research before just parroting something you heard somewhere

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              As the first research in Germany has shown during evaluation of the first hotspot in Germany, they found a basic natural immunity of about 32% they related to corona cold virus these people trapped earlier.

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              Well that’s totally contrary to what the Health Dept nurse told me while I was cruising through my covid infection.She said my immunity was much more effective than if vaxed,though she then suggested I get vaxed to be even more protected….but hey what would she know !

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      John+R+Smith

      “We Can’t Vaccinate This Pandemic Away””
      Not unless there is a ‘vaccine’ for mass hysteria.

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        John+R+Smith

        “The doctor informed us that if he carried out such a test, he would be liable for a fine of $50 000. We were both staggered by this. When we asked him why this was so, he told us that there would be a rush on such tests from the general public.”

        “bureaucrats decide that my level of health is the same as everyone else’s and therefore I need to subject myself to exactly the same treatment. And if I reject that treatment, I will be seriously penalized”

        Mass hysteria … Ray Charles could see it.

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    Vicki

    The section of this study, in respect to the urgent need for early treatment, seems to me the most important “takeaway” for the general public and, of course, the medical community.

    Early treatment is the very thing that has DELIBERATELY been discouraged by the medical hierarchy in their direction of “positive” test patients to go home and stay there for 2 weeks unless you are so sick that you need hospitalisation! It surely can be seen as medical negligence. Given that the virus was known to be fatal in some circumstances, it is almost a “no-brainer” that SOME sort of preventative protocol – even aspirin, vitamins etc should have been recommended.

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      David Maddison

      Yes, what other potentially serious illness are you told to just go home and do nothing? Then call an ambulance when you get REALLY SICK. (Who might be reluctant to take you or refuse you if you are among the untermenschen (unvaxxed).)

      Back in the day, medical doctors and other medical professionals knew that the most effective treatment for any disease was early intervention.

      Thst was, before the Left took over abd controlled everything.

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        Harves

        It is indeed a sad day when the medical profession has become a tool of the elitist political class and big pharma. Then again, I’ve known a couple of people who have worked for big pharma I’ve the past decades and they’ve been buying off doctors with 5 star conferences and other ‘samples’ for years.

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    RobB

    Study from Sweden, published in The Lancet, shows the vaccines are useless against transmission, hospitalization and death after 8 months:

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410

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      TedM

      Yes an interesting study Rob. Here’s a couple of short paragraphs from that study.

      The study (a Lancet pre-print) finds that Pfizer vaccine effectiveness wanes from 92% at day 15-30 to 47% at day 121-180, and from day 211 (seven months) and onwards “no effectiveness could be detected”. For AstraZeneca, vaccine effectiveness “was generally lower and waned faster, with no effectiveness detected from day 121 [four months] and onwards”. (The figure they found was actually negative, minus-19%.)

      While effectiveness against severe outcomes held up for many groups over nine months, it was found to wane significantly among men, older frail people, and people with comorbidities, contributing to an overall fall from 89% at day 15-30 to 42% from day 181 (six months) and onwards, with a number of subgroups even showing negative efficacy against severe outcomes.

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        TedM

        The results for AstraZeneca in that study should be concerning for anyone who is relying on it for protection.

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        RobB

        Indeed. All summarized in Figures 2 and S1. From Figure S1, an increase of up to 80% in the likelihood of severe illness is not excluded.

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        RexAlan

        Thanks for clarifying things Ted. When I read that study I was wondering which results were for Pfizer and which for Astra Zeneca. I’m currently coming up to 4 months since I received my second AZ jab which is not good according to this study.

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    Mark+Allinson

    ” … global health experiment.”

    It’s a global experiment all right, but nothing to do with health.

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      RobB

      Its about the health of Big Pharma

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      another ian

      Only if you insist on being in the control group

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      OriginalSteve

      The concern is a forever run of “boosters” every 12 months to remain a citizen.

      Its the ultimate form of control – submit or we burn you.

      To be blunt, given we dont truly know whats in the vaccines, the globalists who are running what appears to be one of the biggest sc*ms in human history, are also trying to force those who have a brain, out of society should they resist being used as an unthinking guinea pig.

      Maybe we should mandate every vaccine advocate puts themsleves where their mouth is, and take 4 shots of a cov19 vax ( of our choosing ), every 12 months, then tell us how they get on.

      If they are safe, hey no problem.

      Also, is it just me, or have vaccinated people become more argumentative generally?

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        Ian1946

        Steve, I believe that they accept the narrative without question and cannot accept that they may have done a very stupid thing in having the vaccine.

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    another ian

    O/T but for the record

    “Monash University update on Ivermectin research” 17 Aug 2021

    https://www.monash.edu/discovery-institute/news-and-events/news/2021-articles/monash-university-update-on-ivermectin-resea

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      David Maddison

      Sorry, the page or file you are looking for was not found (error 404)

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      TedM

      Not much joy there A Ian.

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        David Maddison

        I wish they could have at least given a hint as to what the outcome is.

        And I hope it’s an evidence-based conclusion, not just what government wants to hear (which would be that Ivermectin was ineffective, because think of the consequences of it being proven to work and government had banned it).

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          TedM

          I strongly suspect that the outcome will be crafted to fit the narrative David. It will probably be the official attempt to deliver the coupe degras to Ivermectin. Hope that I am wrong.

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          Hasbeen

          Yes, illegal killing, if not murder charges should apply to all involved in the effective banning of Ivermectin in Oz, particularly in view of opening us to a flood of new infection by opening the boarder.

          Combined this is assured to kill many people, which is surely premeditated.

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        OldOzzie

        Alongside this work, Dr Wagstaff has been working to establish a blinded and randomised clinical trial. The low numbers of COVID cases in Australia in 2020 meant the planned trial in Australia had to be paused. The establishment of a trial depends on Australian and overseas circumstances, and will be communicated when we are in a position to do so.

        Dr Wagstaff remains committed to undertaking a trial that will provide a definitive answer to whether or not Ivermectin is a potential treatment for COVID-19.

        We note as per the advice issued from the National COVID-19 clinical evidence taskforce, Ivermectin is not to be used for the treatment of COVID-19 outside clinical trials with appropriate ethical approval.

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    beowulf

    22 Studies and Reports that Raise Profound Doubts about Vaccine Efficacy for the General Population

    https://alethonews.com/2021/10/29/22-studies-and-reports-that-raise-profound-doubts-about-vaccine-efficacy-for-the-general-population/

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      TedM

      Two very pertinent paragraphs from that article.

      The Marek’s disease (‘leaky’ non-sterilizing, non-neutralizing imperfect vaccines that reduce symptoms but do not stop infection or transmission) in chickens model, and the concept of the Original antigenic sin (if an initial exposure or priming of the immune system is sub-optimal (Eugyppius) e.g. vaccination with the 2020 spike protein epitopes, then the sub-optimal priming is basically “fixed.” That is to say, it prejudices the life-long immune response with re-exposure due to the immune memory or learning.

      Here I present a combination of 22 studies and stories that underscore just how big a problem this is for the NIH, CDC, FDA, and vaccine developers. It certainly highlights the problems with vaccine mandates that are currently threatening the jobs of millions of people. It raises further doubts about the case for vaccinating children.

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    Philip

    Leaving the only advantage of restrictions on unvaccinated being they will clog up hospitals. That’s it. Nothing else is warranted.

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      OriginalSteve

      Another thought – if you have people who arent vaccinated, you have a control group that shows up clearly how dodgy the vaxes are.

      That I also think is another reason for the insane push to vaccinate everything that moves.

      But this is also bizarre:

      https://www.nbcnews.com/news/animal-news/cincinnati-zoo-vaccinates-80-animals-against-covid-19-n1281880

      “The Cincinnati Zoo said 80 of its animals have received two doses of a Covid-19 vaccine designed for veterinary use.

      “In a news release, the zoo said Monday that it has been vaccinating big cats, great apes, red pandas, goats, giraffes, river otters, skunks, bearcats and some domestic dogs and cats.

      “The zoo said that technicians and handlers worked for weeks to get the animals “comfortable with everything that they would see and feel when they got the injections” and that most were administered without anesthesia.

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    beowulf

    Fully vaccinated? No such thing . . . obviously.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/being-fully-vaccinated-endless-destination/5760008

    Being fully vaccinated is painted by the MSM as a civic duty, a moral responsibility and ‘the right thing to do.’
    Fully vaccinated means different things at different points in the scamdemic.

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      Klem

      True but I don’t believe they care one way or another, all they really care about is that you have a passport with a QR code. The QR code is part of the great reset, its the first step to social credit.

      Social Credit is the objective.

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        beowulf

        Yep.

        ‘Them and us’: Vaccine passport rules for the public but not for world leaders at COP26 spark outrage over dual Covid standards

        https://www.rt.com/uk/538949-cop26-vaccine-passport-controversy/

        “In accordance with Scottish Law, COVID-19 vaccine passports are needed by all visitors to the Green Zone aged over 18 (unless exempt),” the official COP26 website declared, adding that attendees will need to “show that they have been fully vaccinated at least two weeks prior to the date of entry.”

        Separate instructions for those attending COP26’s more private Blue Zone events, however, do not mention any vaccine passport requirements and instead state that attendees need to take Covid-19 tests and present proof of a negative result “every day before departing for the Blue Zone.”

        Another document listing vaccine passport requirements for attendees also featured the disclaimer that “separate guidance has been provided through diplomatic channels” to those who have been “invited” by the UK government to the conference, including world leaders.

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    Jo – keep em coming!

    This studies conclusions, though, are worthless in todays environment as they aggregated pre alpha, alpha and delta results. You do not catch alpha today, only delta. And in the text of the study they found NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE between unvaxxed and vaxxed with the delta. The conclusions drawn are FALSE when related to todays delta only environment!

    The study below, by the CDC no less, confirms that, contrary to what you have suggested in your post, that the vaxxed when asymptomatic are over 2.5 times MORE LIKELY to have high viral loads. And High viral loads greatly increase the chance of spread.

    The latest UK Health Security reporting also shows that the vaxxed are actually MORE LIKELY to get covid than the non vaxxed.

    In summary this study is strictly true but the conclusions drawn are completely wrong for todays environment, and the CDC study and the latest UK reporting show what is happening NOW, not using past results to mix in with those now.

    The current vaccines need to be withdrawn immediately. They are maiming and killing people, and have swiftly falling efficacy. As you mention their indiscriminate use will almost certainly encourage ADE, and into the bargain we have no idea what impacts they have long term. Ivermectin needs to be the focus of any treatment, not gene mutation therapies.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v4.full.pdf

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    OldOzzie

    AfD Member on Vax Mandate: ‘Political Elite’ Never Cared About ‘Regular People’

    Christine Anderson, a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) in Germany’s conservative populist Alternative für Deutschland party, or AfD party, gave a rousing speech where she laid skepticism to the “political elite’s” push of COVID-19 vaccines.

    “In the entire history of mankind there has never been a political elite sincerely concerned about the wellbeing of regular people. What makes any of us think that it is different now?” Anderson can be seen asking in a video posted to her Twitter account.

    Anderson cites from the EU Parliament floor that “it’s not the goal that renders the system oppressive; it is always the methods by which the goal is pursued. Whenever a government claims to have the people’s interest at heart, you need to think again.”

    “Whenever a political elite pushes an agenda this hard, and resort to extortion and manipulation to get their way, you can almost always be sure your benefit is definitely not what they had at heart,” she continues.

    The political spokeswoman adds that she would not inject anything into her body that has not had long-term testing applied.

    “As far as I’m concerned, I will not be vaccinated with anything that has not been properly vetted and tested, and has shown no sound scientific evidence that the benefits outweigh the disease itself and possible long-term side effects, which to this day we don’t know anything about.”

    “I will not be reduced to a mere guinea pig by getting vaccinated with an experimental drug. And I will most assuredly not get vaccinated because my government tells me to, and promises in return I will be granted freedom.”

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    Peter C

    Most people don’t get symptoms til after the viral load peaks — they won’t even know the virus is multiplying unless a close contact has tested positive.

    I find this a bit hard to believe. Maybe true for people with mild disease.

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      Vicki

      PeterC – don’t know if you saw reference posted here a day or so ago to the Indian doctor in South Africa who has treated some 7,000 COVID patients as I recall. This very experienced GP observed that while symptoms were quite mild for the first 7 days, in some patients all hell broke loose (the cytokines storm) on the 8th day.

      This is why so many practitioners are advising early treatment to stave off the replication of the virus in days 1-7.

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        Peter C

        Thanks Vicki,

        Yes I saw the presentation by Dr Chetty.
        Very impressive thinking.
        Dr Chetty’s insight is that the illness on the 8th day changes to an allergic reaction. Hence his treatment changes to antihistamine and steroid. That is how he has saved so many patients.
        Remdesivir (when death is near) and ventilation are contraindicated (in his opinion). I hope our ICU doctors are listening.

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          OldOzzie

          Have Betadine Nasal Spray, Telfast, HCQ and Azithromycin (Azithromycin appears to be almost as effective in the treatment of streptococcal pharyngitis.) Would have preferred Ivermectin but Thugs Goons Administration have banned, and will continue with antivirals – have a year’s supply Quercetin, and continuing taking with NAC, Vit D, Vit C

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            David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

            G’day OO,
            You raise an interesting point with your preference for IVM over HCQ. Even though both are banned such a detailed discussion would be purely academic, but it would be interesting to know the differences. I hesitate to name a source as my memory may be wrong, but someone ranked HCQ above IVM , although it sounded like a marginal call. (Quercetin was third, but is available without prescription.) Do you have anything authoritative?
            Cheers
            Dave B

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              OldOzzie

              Dave B

              Do you have anything authoritative?

              Not really –

              October 05, 2021
              HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE VS IVERMECTIN VS QUERCETIN: WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES?

              How do you deal with different expert groups dishing out conflicting guides? A common issue is that certain groups have pre-defined narrative that they would like to support. Therefore, only studies that support that pre-defined narrative are picked and cited as references. This is what we call as ‘cherry-picking’. Cherry picking will naturally lead to a ‘biased’ and ‘manipulated’ decision. In order to get the truth out, scientific information needs to be analysed in a comprehensive, updated and non-biased manner.

              In this article, we would like to cover 3 popular treatments i.e. Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine and Quercetin.

              Ivermectin and COVID-19

              As of October 2021, there are more than 80 on-going trials globally on Ivermectin for treatment and prevention of COVID-19 on covid-nma.com.

              Hydroxychloroquine

              As of October, 2021 there have been more than 30 studies of Hydroxychloroquine for early treatment – all with zero negative results and an overall average improvement of 64%.

              Here’s a chart from c19early.com that shows that hydroxychloroquine is better than ivermectin:

              The overall improvement for hydroxychloroquine is better than ivermectin (for early treatment); 75% vs 50% in terms of death rate.

              Important point to note that hydroxychloroquine needs to be given early.

              The difference in terms of effectiveness for hydroxychloroquine is distinctly different when given early vs late treatment (75% vs 19%), as shown in the summary chart below:

              Quercetin and COVID-19

              As of September, 2021 there have been 4 published studies of quercetin against COVID-19. For the list of studies, check out c19quercetin.com.

              Quercetin, Zinc and Vitamin C

              There is evidence that vitamin C and quercetin co-administration exerts a synergistic antiviral action due to overlapping antiviral and immuno-modulatory properties and the capacity of ascorbate to recycle quercetin, increasing its efficacy.

              Quercetin, Zinc, Bromelain and Vitamin C

              A case series of 22 patients, published in Medrxiv revealed that quercetin 800 mg once daily with bromelain 165 mg, in addition to zinc acetate 50 mg and vitamin C 1 g supplements are safe with COVID-19 patients who were on multiple therapies including antivirals and antibacterial medications. The effectiveness of quercetin, bromelain, zinc and ascorbic acid combination was not clear in this study, because of lacking placebo or comparable group.

              Quercetin works best when taken with vitamin C and Bromelain, as vitamin C helps activate it and bromelain helps with the absorption. In this study (PubMed), Bromelain also has anti-viral property against COVID-19 virus and anti-clotting property, and therefore may be useful against COVID-19.

              Ivermectin vs Hydroxychloroquine vs Quercetin

              Clinical evidence to date has reported promising results (see above) for Ivermectin in prevention, early treatment as well as late treatment for COVID-19. While both Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine might be useful for early treatment, Ivermectin has a broader potential benefit i.e. prevention, early treatment as well as late treatment / hospital treatment.

              An important to note is that both ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine perform better when given early (within first 3 – 5 days of symptoms) as opposed to late treatment.

              Hydroxychloroquine and Quercetin are both zinc ionophores i.e. they transport zinc into the cells.

              However, quercetin is less potent than HCQ (hydroxychloroquine) as a zinc transporter, and it does not reach high concentrations in lung cells that HCQ does. Quercetin may help reduce risk of viral illness if you are basically healthy. But it is not potent enough to replace HCQ for treatment of COVID once you have symptoms, and it does not adequately get into lung tissue.

              That said, if you simply cannot get hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin, quercetin is a viable stand-in. Quercetin works best when taken with vitamin C and Bromelain, as vitamin C helps activate it and bromelain helps with the absorption. Do not forget to combine it with zinc.

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            KevJ

            And I have my stock of “horse paste”. etc..
            If the subject wasn’t so serious, it would be hilarious..🙄

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          Mark+Allinson

          “498 people are being treated for coronavirus in Victorian hospitals. Of those, 96 are in intensive care units and 59 are on ventilators.

          NSW by way of comparison reported 623 new local coronavirus cases on Monday, as well as the deaths of six people. 959 patients are being treated in NSW hospitals, with 193 in ICU and 97 on ventilators.”

          From a few weeks ago.

          https://www.mamamia.com.au/covid-ward-australia/

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      Analitik

      The virus first infects the upper respiratory tract and establishes there (hence the loss of smell symptom) before spreading down to the lower respiratory system and bloodstream which is when people start feeling sick. As it spreads down, gets into the bloodstream and the person becomes sicker, the initial infection burns itself out.

      So while establishing itself, shedding occurs in large amounts and later, the shedding is lower from the upper respiratory tract. Normal breathing will spread virions from this area.

      The lower respiratory system will only shed virions with coughing so the shed virions are far less likely to be spread. Since the antibodies produced by the effects of the vaccines only have effect once the infection spreads into the bloodstream, a vaccinated person can have a high infection in the upper respiratory tract but not suffer from noticeable sickness so they can continue to spread Covid after the viral load has begun to fall. Same if a person has a strong natural immune response.

      Covid’s infection path and development is quite unusual.

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      Kalm Keith

      To add to David’s comment: yes, thanks for that very detailed set of posts.

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    Doc

    Maybe the only source of attack against the anti-therapeutics establishment is to continually educate someone like Alan Jones. Australia needs an attack dog that has frequent access to TV and other media, whose employment company
    has not been silenced by the government, directly or indirectly, and the target has the courage to repeatedly aim questions that must be answered by the government. The other way would be a broad-based campaign aimed at one’s local politicians with threats of no voice, no explanations, no vote.

    This is entirely defensible, because the government’s blind decisions following whatever orders they are receiving has already cost hundreds of lives nationally and possibly millions worldwide. The matter is totally personalised on the basis that information on the limitations in cover and duration by these COVID-19 vaccines is now widely available for even the dumbest politician in town to read. If he or she hasn’t kept up with it, then they must be aware that they are in reality endangering not only the lives of we the cattle, but their own lives and those of their own families. Explain clearly and precisely, with evidence, WHY are they potentially allowing so many deaths of their citizens and refusing to go the next, probably more essential step than vaccines, step to save themselves and us.

    See if that hits a cord. By forbidding the use of cheap, readily available therapeutic agents (even when the treatment plans utilising them had been worked out 18months ago)the government must stand up and defend its stance. It may be seen such a stance has been responsible for the loss of many lives recently, and it becomes even more culpable for lives that will be lost when borders all open. Then, it may cost their own lives, lives of their own families, and my life or yours. Maybe a class action against government for negligence in the face of known deficiencies in disallowing the therapeutic treatment for COVID-19 which governments have forced on the people of Australia? (They are probably protected against it). Knowledge of the effectiveness of cheap therapies, used in what are clasified as second or third world countries, is bountiful, yet first world governments seem oblivious. ‘Why’ must be explained.

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      ColA

      Doc,
      I don’t know if you have been watching much Alan Jones or any Skynews presenters lately but I know there was a very noticeable shift about 3 months ago where they all got very vaccine positive and I also took particular note that there has been no significant mention or discussions of Ivermectin by any of them since! I do watch Sky on a very regular basis but I would be happy to be corrected if anyone has heard different?
      So the question is WHO is capable of controlling content on a whole TV network, obviously the owners, SO WHO is capable of controlling the owners??????
      Does the fact that Australia bought 300,000 treatments of Molnupiravir from Merck @$1,000 each weeks after Merck refused a request by the discover of Ivermectin to do a full study in Japan give you pause for thought!!
      Does the Kelly/Plibersek conflab and Craigs’ subsequent vilification by his peers and his MSM public piking for science heresy give you pause for thought?????

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  • #
    David Maddison

    VIDEO, 7.5 mins:

    How Pfizer bullies countries into vaccine contracts. Australian Governments are generally poor negotiators so probably gave Big Pharma everything they asked for, plus much more.

    https://youtu.be/nYIJxoh7gqw

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    Doc

    The papers cited here in this blog cover what I have been concerned about when WA has to open, or should I say when the cashed up McGovern government deigns to open WA’s borders. I am already 5months post shot 2, and many were ahead of me. I believe Andrews has lifted his foot on the necks of Victorians because he has been faced with the opening-up prospect in the face of the deficiencies of the vaccines; hence the tolerance for thousands of diagnosed cases.He will be hoping for increased natural immunity to salvage what is possible.

    McGovern on the other hand seems paralysed by the popularity he got in ‘saving everyone’ and taking nearly all the seats at the last election. He wants to keep borders closed down. He probably can’t come up with a story as to why that was brilliant but when he reaps the whirlwind of reopening and COVID-19, how does he explain the mayhem and say it’s OK. In leaving borders closed, judging from papers presented here, is he not making the reopening worse? People like myself will be 10months post vaccinating by February – maybe a booster will spin the limited protection out, but some of us have had reasonably threatening side reactions and the third shot is not looked forward to.

    By February, McGovern has a potentially more lethal problem on his hands, thanks to his egotistical procrastination keeping the vaccinated population several more months with that protection deteriorating. Worse, WA has almost zero exposure to the virus so there will be very minimal ‘natural’ immunity. Good luck to us all!

    My bottom line is, both Andrews and McGovern should be good candidates for throwing open questions at the Federal government as to why they cannot get therapeutic drugs for their people, that are seen to be effective overseas and are dirt cheap? As the redhead lady would ask: ‘Please explain!’

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    • #
      Forrest Gardener

      Yes. That’s always the problem with drastic measures. What happens when you want to remove them?

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    • #
      RickWill

      that are seen to be effective overseas and are dirt cheap?

      It is a matter of who is “seeing” them as effective. There is no example of anything other than natural immunity, associated with literally countless deaths, or vaccinations that have been effective. All the stories on Ivermectin being effective are make believe. None of the countries that outsiders claim to have benefitted from Ivermectin have been tardy in taking up vaccinations. If there was a clear alternative then the people would not bother with vaccinations.

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        Doc

        The question then becomes, has there been any attempt to construct a mass clinical trial anywhere in the world, governed by independent, unbiased and uncoerced clinicians and statisticians to see just where the truth lies? Are the experiences of Peru, India and Indonesia figments of their imaginations in the responses they cite for the use of those therapeutics so lauded prior to vaccines becoming available? Most people are willing to act on advice reflecting experience and change their ways similarly if clinical trials show they are dreaming.

        There is also a statement from a US clinician interviewed on Fox who stated that, allowing for all known variables, including COVID, suicide, Influenza and whatever else, there is an unexplained jump in the underlying death rates beyond all the known factors. The question is, just how safe really are those vaccines? Are those excess deaths, which seem to be very much cardiovascular, reflective of an unrecognised problem coming from those vaccines? The gentleman however, was properly very careful in stating that so far the matter is simple a statistical blip to be explained by further investigation.

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        KP

        ” None of the countries that outsiders claim to have benefitted from Ivermectin have been tardy in taking up vaccinations. If there was a clear alternative then the people would not bother with vaccinations.”

        We would like not to bother with vaccines, but as everyone else in these comments knows, the pharma mafia make sure no options are available. The 2nd world used other drugs while the first world vaccinated, then once vaccines were available the mafia made damm sure all those other countries suddenly banned alternatives and signed the vaccine contract. India, half of South America, Indonesia.. all used Ivermectin until it came to the notice of the pharma mafia, then the thugs stepped in.

        The nice thing about a power structure in a country is that you only need to lean on a few people to get everything changed.

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  • #
    beowulf

    One woman takes a stand on principle.
    https://alethonews.com/2021/10/30/pharmacy-manager-quits-on-store-intercom-says-no-more-poison/

    A pharmacy manager publicly announced her resignation over a loud speaker to startled waiting customers because she no longer wants to administer “this poison” — referring to COVID “vaccines”.

    “I quit, effective immediately, because I will not give this poison to people. Wake up, everybody. This is poison. This is hurting people. I’ve seen it. I’ve seen customers die. Wake up, do not take it.”

    Belland says that she is not necessarily “anti-vaccine.” She is anti-experimental gene therapy.

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Sad that she had to take that action, but she did the right thing in face of the bloody mindedness of the governing authorities.

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    Analitik

    Uttar Pradesh virtually eliminated Covid despite having the lowest vaccination rate in India (20%) while Kerala with the 4th highest vaccination rate(48%) and less than 1/5th the population (26 million vs 147 million for UP) still records over 7000 cases daily.

    Someone tell Gee Aye that there seems to be a statical fluke occurring in India with ivermectin and vaccines

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/update-71-75-districts-uttar-pradesh-india-reported-no-covid-19-cases-24-hours-implementing-ivermectin-protocol/

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    • #
      Analitik

      Just to clarify, those population figures are for adults, not total populations.

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    • #

      no fluke. Cause and effect. You have not identified the cause possibly because you are willfully ignoring other data.

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      RickWill

      Uttar Pradesh virtually eliminated Covid despite having the lowest vaccination rate in India (20%)

      I cannot believe there anyone is still promoting this utter nonsense – it is a sad joke on a community devastated by Covid. Uttar Pradesh had so many deaths they simply could not count them and many died without diagnosis. Dramatic reduction in mobility due to people dying in the streets was the reason Uttar Pradesh turned the corner; mobility crashed from April 9 and down by 68% of normal on May 7:
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/india/uttar-pradesh?view=social-distancing&tab=trend
      Infections peaked on April 14:
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/india/uttar-pradesh?view=infections-testing&tab=trend&test=infections

      You have no idea at all how many doses of Ivermectin were distributed. The daily cases RECORDED were 2.4M. How in Uttar Pradesh does anyone distribute 2.4M prescriptions of Ivermectin – give me a break. The idea that Ivermectin was the magic pill in Uttar Pradesh is so far fetched it is ridiculous.

      And Indians in Uttar Pradesh are still fronting in the millions for vaccinations:
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/india/uttar-pradesh?view=vaccinations&tab=trend

      The virus went through Uttar Pradesh like a freight train with peak daily cases of 2.4M. Excess deaths total 393k. Kerala had peak cases of 200k and excess deaths of 64k. Kerala effectively flattened the curve. In fact, there was a second Covid wave that is now subsiding:
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/india/kerala

      So Kerala has done considerably better on a population basis than Uttar Pradesh.

      It is clear that if you want to lower the risk of a bad outcome from Covid – GET VACCINATED as a billion or so Indians are doing. Or do you think Indians are so stupid that they are just getting vaccinated because they can and they know they have the magic pill?

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        OriginalSteve

        Dont forget the Ivermectin success story of Indonesia in 2021 beating covid….

        https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/amazing-covid-19-cases-indonesia-plunge-government-authorizes-ivermectin-treatment/

        “After the government authorized the use of Ivermectin for COVID-19 patients, the number of cases significantly plummeted since July.

        “The data below proves that Ivermectin played a role on the steep decline of COVID-19 cases despite having a low vaccination rate.

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        • #
          RickWill

          Same nonsense as Uttar Pradesh. Indoorarma did not start even producing Ivermectin until the cases were in rapid decline. The decline in cases started three weeks after severe lockdown in the population centres.

          Again is it just a sick joke to be claiming the wonders of Ivermectin in places that have suffered badly from Covid.

          Indonesia continues at a steady pace for vaccinations of 0.3% per day; now at 45% of the population vaccinated. Tell the Indonesians they have found the magic pills because none of them know.

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            OriginalSteve

            Ah Rick, wrong again….[SNIP insult]

            https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/lucknow/uttar-pradesh-government-says-ivermectin-helped-to-keep-deaths-low-7311786/

            “Written by Maulshree Seth | Lucknow |

            “May 12, 2021 10:02:08 am

            “The state Health Department introduced Ivermectin as prophylaxis for close contacts of Covid patients, health workers as well as for the treatment of the patients themselves through a government order on August 6, 2020. (Wikimedia Commons)
            A year after the country’s first Covid-19 cluster, with 5 cases, was reported in Agra district, the Uttar Pradesh government has claimed that it was the first state to have introduced a large-scale “prophylactic and therapeutic” use of Ivermectin and added that the drug helped the state to maintain a lower fatality and positivity rate as compared to other states.

            “Citing the results from Agra in the month of May and June last year, following which the use of Ivermectin, a medicine to treat parasitic ailments, along with Doxycycline was introduced as a protocol across the state for both prophylactic as well as treatment purposes, the state Health Department said it would conduct a controlled study once the second wave of the pandemic subsides.

            “The state Health Department introduced Ivermectin as prophylaxis for close contacts of Covid patients, health workers as well as for the treatment of the patients themselves through a government order on August 6, 2020, after a committee headed by the Director General, Medical and Health Services, gave it the go ahead.

            ““Uttar Pradesh was the first state in the country to introduce large-scale prophylactic and therapeutic use of Ivermectin. In May-June 2020, a team at Agra, led by Dr Anshul Pareek, administered Ivermectin to all RRT team members in the district on an experimental basis. It was observed that none of them developed Covid-19 despite being in daily contact with patients who had tested positive for the virus,” Uttar Pradesh State Surveillance Officer Vikssendu Agrawal said.

            “He added that based on the findings from Agra, the state government sanctioned the use of Ivermectin as a prophylactic for all the contacts of Covid patients and later cleared the administration of therapeutic doses for the treatment of such patients.

            “Claiming that timely introduction of Ivermectin since the first wave has helped the state maintain a relatively low positivity rate despite its high population density, he said, “Despite being the state with the largest population base and a high population density, we have maintained a relatively low positivity rate and cases per million of population”.

            “He said that apart from aggressive contact tracing and surveillance, the lower positivity and fatality rates may be attributed to the large-scale use of Ivermectin use in the state, adding that the drug has recently been introduced in the National Protocol for Covid treatment and management. “Once the second wave subsides, we would conduct our own study as there has been an emerging body of evidence to substantiate our timely use of Ivermectin from the first wave itself,” Vikasendu told The Indian Express.

            “Agra District Magistrate Prabhu N Singh also attributed the state’s relative success in keeping the Covid numbers down to the timely nod to the use of Ivermectin as a prophylactic. He added that government doctor Anshul Pareek had approached him last year citing use of the medicine abroad.

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        Doc

        RickWill, your information is appreciated.

        You are actually tossing ivermectin to the rubbish tip without any attempt to supply the semblance of a scientific article or a properly conducted clinical trial on which to base your assessment of ivermectin.

        The fact of many deaths and little more than a mention of the drug supplied without reference as to how it was used, or when, or on whom is simply a description of a disaster in progress. It is more dismissal of an agent with no clinical assessment at all. You select a State and in your assessment you detail the difficulties of even being able to distribute the medication appropriately to start with. The statement you make is a basic summary of what is currently wrong in the world of therapeutic assessment.

        It is not grounded in research. It is less than the equivalent of ‘Global Warming’ that at least comes with a manipulated, very loose with methodologies and facts that provide the ‘scientific basis’ at its foundations. You make the point for me, indirectly, that the world needs properly conducted clinical trials on all these therapeutic suggestions. Otherwise, one is just mouthing the arguments mounted by our politicians with no scientific basis at all. That problem is now being cursed by the short time period available to get on with the research on medications we badly need quickly to supplement (maybe) the increasingly questionable vaccines with their brief period of effectiveness.

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        KP

        “So Kerala has done considerably better on a population basis than Uttar Pradesh. ”

        Not by your figures. Uttar Pradesh has 6.4times the population of Kerala, (35million cf 225million) and your excess deaths show they only had 6.25 times the number of deaths.

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    Analitik

    After vaccination failed to control Japan’s Covid outbreak, the hospitalisation and case numbers are crushed after ivermectin is authorised for treatment.

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-10-29-japan-ends-vaccine-induced-pandemic-legalizing-ivermectin.html

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    John+R+Smith

    “A new study shows vaccinated people are about 40% less likely to catch Covid, but if or when they do catch it they pose the same risk to the people close to them regardless of their vaccination status”

    So it’s 60% ineffective for one half of its’ intended purpose.
    And 100% ineffective for the remaining half of its’ intended purpose.

    If it were me, I’d ask for a refund.

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      John+R+Smith

      Of course, this requires the assumption that the intended purpose is the traditional intended purpose of ‘vaccines’.
      The purchasers of this particular product may have different understanding with the manufacturer of the purpose and be perfectly happy with the outcome so far … as both parties understand the intended outcome expected has yet to fully materialize.

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        Vlad the Impaler

        Just to add to that, my wife and I, and our daughter, on her advice (she’s a Nurse Practitioner, currently working on a Ph. D. [U.S. terminology for Doctorate]) decided we’d go ahead and get a vaccine.

        That was April; late August/early September, she came down with something, and a test called it ‘the bug’. Probably was. She was quite ill, but has recovered. We live together with our four grandchildren (my wife and I are primary care givers while our daughter works full-time and attends classes). My wife and I are on the Vit D (w/ occasional Vit C if we think there’s exposure), zinc, and any time a sniffle hits, we hit the tonic water (the brand we buy says it specifically has quinine). No, we omit the gin and lime.

        Neither my wife nor myself have ever had any symptoms, despite close encounters with ‘the bug’. Exactly two weeks after getting the vaccine, I had the first of four Transient Ischemic Attacks (T.I.A.) which our Primary Care physician linked directly to the vaccine. Until further notice, I am taking a 325-mg aspirin per day, and am now 18 weeks without any T.I.A.’s (often called ‘mini-strokes’).

        My advice: keep reporting the adverse effects of the non-vaccines, and the lack of efficacy, and spread the message far and wide. The milligram of prevention is worth the tonne of cure (paraphrased from English units to metric units).

        And, in case you are wondering, our daughter is re-thinking the whole vaccine scenario; that commodity, thinking, is in very short supply these days.

        Peace, health, and prosperity be upon everyone here, and your households,

        Vlad

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          Kalm Keith

          Thanks for sharing that.

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            MP

            Hi Keith, are you still doing astandinthepark, how’s things going, getting people rocking up.

            We got a banner made up, about 3 meters long and string it between some structure, gets attention.
            Had 4 couples turn up yesterday, all people doing a runner from the cities and the state of Victoria. One young couple from Vic sold everything, bought a 4X4 and van and are going around Aus looking for a safe place. They saw the banner and dropped in for a chat, they had be staying in a van park near the town and noticed the rules are ignored by all businesses here, kinda happy about that.
            They told me stories about the injuries to their family members from the vax and the mental issues from being locked up for so long, they left before lock up 6.

            Just to let you know, if you ever need a safe haven (whatever that would be) I have a small farm which I unintentionally set up a couple of spots for caravans, power from my grid backed up by genset, never ending spring fed water supply (from a large tank farm for pressure) and I installed wifi so I could bludge beside the water fall and read this blog, so all sites have that, two overlook the water fall but I could have lesser sites view wise with power, water, wifi. Plenty of dirt for growing food.
            I do not want anything in return.
            My wife and I are very private, the property is peaceful and the gates are locked
            If you ever need somewhere to get your head together, sort out your ducks, head for the Atherton tablelands FNQ, find a standinthepark group on any Sunday and I will find you. (via this blog)

            The time is coming for a community of like minded individuals to form, there are many farmers who are on board across the district, as well as nurses, a doctor, teachers, (for home schooling) seed banks and tradies so we can be self sufficient should the need arise.
            We had a meeting of all groups on Saturday and hundreds turned up so we have a community of like minded individuals over a vast number of LGA,s for mobility.

            The offer is there, though I feel you are a bit like me and will stand until you can’t. But your welcome here.

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              This is a great idea, and very generous. Thanks MP. I will be happy to pass on emails if anyone needs to get in touch. And happy to connect up others who may also be in a position to offer a place to park.

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              Kalm Keith

              Hi MP,

              Yesterday’s Stand was over two hours of intense conversation.
              Three new people turned up and one I spoke to took details of this blog; maybe she’ll have a look.

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              • #
                MP

                Hi Keith, Most of our one hour gatherings end up well past that. I started loosing the faith, as though people are always thanking us for making a stand, they walk off and do not stand with us, even the regulars are becoming irregular, except me, even the wife wanted to give up, I will never leave the fight, I am in this to the end.
                Bad things are coming and when people feel they have nowhere to go, then I am offering somewhere to end up. No point running from something, you need to run to something. My little place can be that something.

                I am not an organiser of any group, I am just me. I do fund what I feel is just and we all take in food from our gardens/tree’s as most and share. My group are a bunch of misfits, some of whom wish to hug this all away. But their heart and heads are in the right place so I can forget my prejudice.

                The contact for me is via the “a stand in the park groups on the Atherton tablelands” just rock up, put a comment in here as to what group you will be attending and I will find you.

                Everyone concerned needs to find a stand in the park group, we are starting to organise safe harbours and alterative food sources. I use “organise” very loosely, but there are some very driven ladies whom put things together.
                You do not need to sign up to anything, just turn up. Nobody knows my name, they just know where I will be and when I will be there.

                On another note, I got an email from my accountant on Friday, all company directors must get a digital ID, probably for my health. Replied to them, wrap it up I am now closed for business.

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                Kalm Keith

                Hi MP,

                We, the human race, are all “a bunch of misfits”; none of us think exactly the same as the next person, and that’s what makes our species so successful.

                It’s very heartening to look around and see large numbers of people resisting “the jabs” and pushing back both here and overseas.

                In the past nature has needed a bit of help in getting us through diseases and true vaccines have done a wonderful job.

                Unfortunately, with the privatization of vaccine development and production, things are dominated by the dollar and personal outcomes are secondary.

                Accountability and honesty have gone missing and they must be restored.

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                MP

                Morning Keith,
                Banner details if your interested, http://www.vistaprint.com.au/ cost $75, took a week, no eyelets so sent to upholsterers for eyelets and to strengthen eyelet points $60
                Length 366.4cm
                Height 76.8cm
                Centre Message: FREEDOM. Beneath that the, http://astandinthepark.org/
                Ends: Stand in the park smiley face logo

                If you wish I can order one for you and pay, you will need to contact Silvia mailto:[email protected] and give your delivery details, if anyone in you group is handy with a sowing machine you can strengthen the points, you can get hammer through eyelets from a hardware store. (other than Bunnings)

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      Forrest Gardener

      And as I unsuccessfully argued to my daughter yesterday the infected injected are more dangerous because they are more likely to be entirely clueless about their infectious status.

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    dinn, bob

    On a scale of 0-50 how rotten is the US government and its dark overlords? See this:
    https://balance10.blogspot.com/2021/10/on-scale-of-50-how-rotten-is-us.html

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    Peter Fitzroy

    Not a word about the mortality rate for the vaccinated from Covid. That statistic alone, is enough to get vaccinated

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    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      Not a word about the mortality rate for the vaccinated from Covid.

      Not if they won’t tell:

      “The Victorian health department has refused to release the vaccination status on the 25 people who died with coronavirus.

      The spike in new deaths were reported on Thursday, which was the highest number of daily deaths of the current Delta outbreak.

      When asked whether they were vaccinated, deputy chief health officer Ben Cowie said the data was available but they “we’re not going to be reporting on that”.

      Instead, he said 85 per cent of Victorians who tested positive to Covid-19 in the past seven days were not fully vaccinated.”

      https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/probe-into-handling-of-pandemic-wont-be-reopened/news-story/8ce2e766c4cb27f29eb1bb68c13dbb36

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        clarence.t

        Interesting wording isn’t it…”were not fully vaccinated” 😉

        Big question.. are those people who are double/triple+ jabbed still getting themselves tested regularly.

        Or are they complacent, thinking the jab will protect them.

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      clarence.t

      You are more than welcome to take “the jab” as many times as you want… Please.

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      Broadie

      I love the circular firing squads of the Hard Left.

      This is why Totalitarians need secret police and roving gangs of thugs.

      A valid comment may have been for someone who had a genuine interest in Jo’s post may be the total of those tested was only 621. This may be too low to draw any conclusions either way though is an interesting start of a discussion.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        And it follows the information freely available about the flu, and therefore is unexceptionable.

        However, being vaccinated for both the flu and/or covid reduces mortality rate and your symptoms will be less.

        Lying by omission makes a great post though

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        • #
          Serp

          unexceptional

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          Kalm Keith

          There was a news item on the radio about Koalas on Rottnest Island having picked up CV19 from the quarantine arrangements there.
          Can koalas be Vaxxinated?

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          OriginalSteve

          Do you have any proof the flu vax has stopped people dying of it?

          Koalas vaccinated? How much can a koala bear? 🙂 And will they have strokes and fall out of the trees?

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          TedM

          This link is courtesy of Peter C below. https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-10-29-japan-ends-vaccine-induced-pandemic-legalizing-ivermectin.html

          And a paragraph from that article especially for you PF. Just trying to keep you accurately informed Peter. I know you will just love the graph. Looks very much like Uttar Pradesh.

          Japan just flattened their biggest covid curve yet, and they did so by legalizing and using ivermectin. In almost every country, infection rates and daily death records have increased with each new wave of sickness. The public health advice of lockdowns, isolation, mask mandates and mass inoculation programs has only continued to cause larger curves of sickness and hospitalization. The withholding of viable treatments, a crime against humanity, has all but crippled humanity’s ability to adapt to and recover from respiratory infections. But there’s hope in Japan, where ivermectin has been deployed to help people recover from covid-19 so they can have more durable, lasting immunity.

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      Alone from the atatistics, show the opposite
      Chris Whitty approves roll-out of Covid-19 vaccine to kids despite a mountain of evidence they are killing children

      Authorities in the United Kingdom are so desperate to vaccinate children that they decided to disregard the decision made by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation to not recommend children are given the jab and tasked the Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty with making the decision instead, and he has now decided that the experimental treatment should be rolled out to children with immediate effect.

      Have a look at this presentation by Steve Kirsch, director of the Covid-19 Early Treatment Fund.

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      Forrest Gardener

      Be a better troll. Somewhere else.

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      Harry

      Yes Peter, a good old cherry picking tactic, so scientific.

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      TedM

      Hmm, what about the deaths of the fully vaccinated. England 63.5% over recent months were fully vaccinated. And have a listen here. https://twitter.com/i/status/1451168554347343881

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    Travis T. Jones

    Of course it does …

    COVID-19 vaccines offer more protection than past infection, CDC says

    https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2021/10/29/COVID-19-vaccine-more-protection-prior-infection-CDC/1381635526379/

    >> That would explain booster shots.

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    • #
      another ian

      “Expect a New Wave of Pro-Vaccine Propaganda in the Coming Weeks!”

      “Alex Berenson reports that Rochelle Walensky’s highly politicized and disgraced CDC is up to more no good:

      The CDC hits a new low

      (I didn’t think it was possible either.)

      But yesterday the Centers for Disease Control, America’s not-at-all-politicized public health agency, released a new study purporting to show that vaccination protects against Covid infection better than natural immunity. Of course, a wave of stories about the benefits of mRNA vaccination followed.

      To do this, the CDC used some magic statistical analysis to turn inside raw data that actually showed almost four times as many fully vaccinated people being hospitalized with Covid as those with natural immunity – and FIFTEEN TIMES as many over the summer.

      I kid you not.

      Further, the study runs contrary to a much larger paper from Israeli researchers in August.”

      http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/10/30/expect-a-new-wave-of-pro-vaccine-propaganda-over-the-coming-weeks/

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      TedM

      Just checked it out, dated the 29th October, so the CDC is still lying about naturally acquired immunity. When you consider the immunity issue, early treatment, HQC and ivermectin you are left wondering if they have told the truth about anything at all. Or ever will. Not that our TGA or Dept. of Health are any better.

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  • #
    John+R+Smith

    Checklist:
    Vaxxed VS Unvaxxed
    Cab be infected Yes Yes
    Can transmit SC2 Yes Yes
    Must still test Yes Yes
    Must still quarantine Yes Yes
    must wear mask Yes Yes
    Can die from Vax Yes NO

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    Peter C

    Now Japan!

    Vaccines don’t work but Ivermectin does.
    Japan ends vaccine-induced pandemic by legalizing IVERMECTIN, while pharma-controlled media pretends masks and vaccines were the savior
    https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-10-29-japan-ends-vaccine-induced-pandemic-legalizing-ivermectin.html

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    • #
      PeterS

      The obvious question is, I wonder how many deaths could have been avoided here in Australia if we allowed the widespread use of ivermectin? I suppose we ill never know but whatever that number is, as far as I’m concerned all our political leaders and health officials have blood on their hands.

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      • #
        Ross

        Not only avoidance of deaths but there would have been no need for the crazy lockdowns. Australia could have implemented some basic sensible COVID precautions and the great majority of us could have not effectively wasted the last 2 years. That is certainly the case for most of the east coast states.

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    • #
      RickWill

      The obvious question is – how many doses of Ivermectin were actually distributed.

      The reduction in cases in Japan occurred after the vaccination level reached 65% population wide. Australia’s cases peaked 20 days ago when the vaccination rate was 69% population wide – not materially different.

      Hopefully someone will inform the Japanese that they should have stopped their vaccination program after finding the miracle cure of Ivermectin. The dills have continued to put jabs in arms at record rate.
      https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countries-normalized&highlight=Japan&show=10-lg&y=both&scale=linear&data=vaccinePeople&data-source=merged&xaxis=right#countries-normalized
      Now at 77.5% population wide or 88% for 16yo and above. They are in the top 10 of vaccination countries. It does not surprise me that their case numbers have plummeted as well as deaths.

      The story and timing is not much different to NSW and I am reasonably confident that NSW has not relied on the miracle of Ivermectin.

      The only clear takeaway from the Japanese experience is – GET VACCINATED. They are in the top ten of vaccinated countries.

      Maybe someone needs to tell the Russians about Ivermectin! They are still setting daily records for Covid deaths; now at 1100+/day.

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      • #
        Will Gray

        I did read old Ozzie commenting the case reduction started at 5% vaccination when ivermetin was commencing roll-out.

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    • #
      TedM

      Thanks for that link Peter, extremely useful.

      10

  • #
    RickWill

    The Imperial College study shows that draconian rules isolating the unvaccinated from the vaccinated are not medically justified.

    This is true but it is justified on public health grounds. Unvaccinated are 10X more likely to end up in hospital. So, while the virus is still in the community, it makes sense to lower the risk of unvaccinated getting it by depressing their social mixing.

    Whether there needs to be rules to keep unvaccinated people from mingling is a different matter – having to present vaccination certificate is an impost on everyone. If someone has chosen to be unvaccinated they are likely to be very wary of mixing in any case. On the other hand,some younger people who consider themselves bulletproof and not vaccinated would be more likely to end up in hospital.

    The high rate of vaccination in Australia and gradual increase in mobility is keeping people out of hospital – Victoria down to 702 from a peak of 851 and NSW down from 1253 to 340.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Of all the supposed “experts” that give advice to various Australian Governments, it’s unbelievable that not one is either (a) aware of problems of leaky vaccines or (b) are prepared to state their concerns due to risk of being defunded or sacked (hmmm, same issue with scientists and the anthropogenic global warming fraud).

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    Ross

    One thing I have learned from any studies of any COVID aspects in the last 19 months is that when you drill down to the methodology and the results, conclusions can be interpreted in various different ways. Any research that is completed in the “heat” of the moment also has to be viewed very carefully. One of the most difficult factors is having a robust control/ Untreated/Placebo group that you can make valid comparisons to. Or that the treated groups have no bias or other complicating factors. Some of the stuff I have seen over the COVID period has been laughable. Non supervised, no control groups, tainted treated groups, low statistical power, poor or biased data accumulation. The list goes on. The major conclusion from this study is that vaccines alone are definitely NOT the solution for COVID. Not unless the virus itself mutates or disappears just as the Spanish flu and SARS 1 did. We need a multifaceted approach to COVID treatment. Ivermectin anyone?

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      David Maddison

      A further problem with Australia’s compulsory vaccine program is that there will be very few voluntary unvaccinated people as a control group.

      *Yes, I know the PM said there is no compulsory vaccination in Australia but that is simply not true if you want to work, travel, have various personal services such as haircuts and beauty treatment, go to sporting events or many other activities. You do not have the rights of other Australians if you are not vaxxed. Even if you are vaxxed they have taken away many of our rights anyway.

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  • #
    another ian

    O/T but for variety in your faith in government

    “Delingpole: COP26 – A Perfect Storm of Stupid”

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2021/10/31/delingpole-cop26-a-perfect-storm-of-stupid/

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  • #
    Broadie

    Halloween Horror Stories.

    15 year old girl who lead the charge and took the ‘Jab for Gran’after a month of Emergency Hospital visits a diagnosis of Pericarditis has now added another serious pain medication to her once empty medicine cabinet. If this sort of cruelty had been perpetrated on a dog, the RSPCA would have the cameras rolling and the Lawyers tut-tutting.

    Part time local worker in her 60’s dies alone and not found for two days.

    Another beautiful 15 year old girl with Bell’s Palsy, no make-up needed for Halloween. No trick and no treats.

    Lots of people falling down stairs or off their bikes. Is this the effects of the Spirits?

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    • #
      Vicki

      Broad is, I was reassured the other day by the owner of 2 medical centres that they had inoculated thousands with the vaccines with not one problem.

      What do you say when this is a guest in your house? I politely murmured that those figures were amazing but I understand there is a problem with reporting, then quickly transitioned to the greater problems with statistics & this virus.

      As “Basil Fawlty” would say , “I think I got away with it!”

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      • #
        Broadie

        The truly gentle and lovely Gran phoned again today, The Grandfather has had to choose to advocate for his Granddaughter while his wife deals with her cancer. He has taken the child to another hospital to seek specialist attention. The Gran asked, ‘there are so many, why isn’t anyone talking about this?’

        Meanwhile on local radio. Paralysis tick season is in full swing. One family had their dog in ICU at the vet for 6 days and it was Ssoooooo expensive as the dog was Soooooo Siiiiiick. ‘Hobbit’ the local Gramcsi-ite Memebot on FM has declared another ‘double donut day’ as he charges towards smoozing his number one sponsors, the propaganda arm of the Australian taxpayer with their health and retirement funds bottomless pit funded by the Never Never.

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      • #
        Broadie

        So when did they start vaccinating those under 17?

        Table 1. Total cases classified as likely to be myocarditis (levels 1-3) following Comirnaty to 24 October 2021
        Age (years) <17yrs

        All doses

        Total case
        Male, Female
        43, 8
        Rate* per 100,000 doses
        Male, Female
        4.6, 0.9

        Second doses

        Total cases
        Male, Female
        25, 5
        Rate* per 100,000 doses
        Male, Female
        6.7, 1.4

        So One vaccine for about one month and your Medical Centre promoting these shots is silent. I wonder why? Maybe the Medical Centres are run by those who swear an oath to ‘Do no Loss’ rather than ‘Do no Harm’.

        [Comments get approved faster if they use standard spelling. OK? – Jo]

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        • #
          Broadie

          Thanks Jo. Happy with the moderation on your site.
          When I see the absolute disaster these vaccines are creating, your site is one of the few able to leak through the propaganda wall.

          With the oldies dying after the shot, I found it difficult to find the evidence of the link.
          Fell down stairs, fell off bike, fell off ladder, heart attack, cancer came out of remission, Bell’s Palsy, chest pain, shingles, rash etc.
          Now they are vaccinating children, the adverse events are stark against the background of a healthy glowing child. Yet lovely caring Health Professionals are still lining up their children to be given a variety of compounds with various vectors. Forget the pain now, what about the problems when these young families attempt to conceive in the future?
          The lesson learned is that you cannot confront someone suffering from Cognitive Dissonance with the obvious without you becoming the object of their fears.

          So Noble(sic) Prize for you and please direct me to the correct dictionary..

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  • #
    Bill+In+Oz

    But the Jo there is this scienfific report as well
    https://cosmosmagazine.com/health/covid/risk-of-catching-covid-from-an-unvaccinated-person/
    How to work through it all ?

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    • #
      Serp

      Finkel’s creation eh, Cosmos magazine; against my better judgment I followed the link and found below its fatuous thesis an attribution: “This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.” Thanks for nothing Bill+In+Oz.

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      Mullumhillbilly

      Cartoon science

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    OldOzzie

    Jen Psaki Has COVID-19 After Close Contact With Joe Biden on Tuesday

    Jen Psaki has tested positive for COVID-19, per an announcement. Katie Rogers of The New York Times shared the news on Twitter today, noting that Psaki had been in close contact with Joe Biden as recently as Tuesday. That happened in a socially distanced environment, at least according to Psaki.

    The White House press secretary’s other contacts with White House staff came on Wednesday.

    I’d note that Psaki, and the White House in general, are rabidly pro-mask. Yet, time and again, we continue to see breakthrough cases of vaccinated individuals. That might suggest something about the inefficacy of masks, but I realize that’s taboo to suggest.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      She was no doubt doubly, triply or quadruplely vaxxed, was physically and socially distanced and wore at least one mask, probably two or more plus I presume only the vaxxed and masked would be allowed into any event where the Puppet in Chief was present…

      If Biden gets the ‘Rona it might be the end of him.

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      • #
        Ross

        Don’t worry – they’ll stuck some ivermectin into him. Or monoclonal antibodies. Or whatever they used on Donald Trump. All very hush, hush of course, lest the general populace also ask for it.

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      shortie+of+greenbank

      Joe might catch it if covid can be transmitted by hair sniffing.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    If the unvaccinated are not going to be allowed into the hospitals when they are overwhelmed, then who exactly, is overwhelming them?

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    RightOverLabour

    so. If you get vaccinated you are safe. Unless you are double vaccinated, wear full PPE and get tested daily. as in these 3 nurses. How they going to explain this little anomaly?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-record-162-cases-ahead-of-cabinet-decision-on-alert-level-changes/6EGP4BXJRCANP2CLPOTE54TTLY/

    Come on now we are waiting Hipkins, you ignorant, disgusting turd.

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  • #
    OldOzzie

    Stunning Statements From a Yale Epidemiologist on Vaccines and Early Treatment

    Dr. Harvey Risch appeared on Life, Liberty, and Levin Sunday night and provided information that the health bureaucracy doesn’t want Americans to hear. Risch is a Yale epidemiologist who has published more than 300 original research papers cited over 40,000 times on Google Scholar. He has also served on the leadership staff of several prominent journals.

    During his appearance, he discussed early treatment and vaccinating children. Since early in the pandemic, Risch has been frustrated that the health bureaucracy won’t embrace any treatments. He wrote a paper advocating for the use of hydroxychloroquine after performing a meta-analysis of the available studies. Risch seemed genuinely surprised by the blowback his opinion generated.

    Risch continued, “They get fed the information from pharma reps or from what they’re told from [medical] societies. The conflicts [of interest] are legion, so it’s no surprise most doctors don’t pay attention and think what they are told.” One benefit from the pandemic is that some of these flaws have gotten sunlight. When you watch Dr. Scott Gottlieb go from FDA Director to the board of Pfizer and then be welcomed on television to tell you to get his company’s vaccine and maybe a booster or two, the web of conflicts starts to emerge.

    Over the past week, the news media has inundated us with news about when children aged 5-11 can be vaccinated. The FDA vaccine advisory committee hearing on the evidence from Pfizer clinical trials is on Tuesday, but to hear the coverage, approval is a foregone conclusion. This assessment is probably correct since the Acting FDA Director Janet Woodcock overruled the advisory committee on booster shots. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky similarly overruled her internal committee. Joe Biden has said they will be available, so if recent history is any guide, they will receive an emergency use authorization and a recommendation from the CDC.

    “In fact, when you are talking about first-line treatment of people for a respiratory illness, it’s the frontline doctors. The doctors who see the patients when they walk into their offices or call them on telemedicine. Those are the people with experience in treating COVID patients, for example.” Then he shared some data he had collected from frontline doctors. “Across the country, I’ve surveyed telemedicine groups and large group practices. Most recently, a total of more than 150,000 people who have been treated early as outpatients with hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, and other medications extremely successfully.”

    Then he provided a jaw-dropping number. “Less than two dozen deaths out of that large group that had been treated early. So, [the frontline doctors are] the ones that have the knowledge about how to treat patients. However, the government doesn’t want any of that to be known publicly.” He added, “It’s an open secret. I talk about it. And others talk about it. But the government denies it exists.” That is a case fatality rate of 0.016% when the estimate for the flu is 0.1%.

    While the recent story about the NIAID funding horrific research on puppies is awful, think about this: Dr. Anthony Fauci let millions of scared Americans go home believing there were no treatments for COVID-19. Many of them got sick enough to be hospitalized and die. Risch estimates that 85% of those patients could have benefitted from early treatment. If ignoring the data on early treatment doesn’t qualify as a crime against humanity, it is unclear what would.

    Reference link Subscriber

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    • #
      Vicki

      This is the story repeated wherever front line physicians use early treatment. And it is not simply Ivermectin – but also, of course, Hydroxy, steroids, Quercetin, zinc & even anti-histamines! ,

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  • #
    SimonB

    What’s going on here? Why isn’t Nikolai Petrovski’s Covax 19 being shouted from the rooftops? His trials produced excellent results in inhibiting transmission, it’s synthetic protein based and already being rolled out to the 3rd world with Australian government funding. But they will not allow Australian use because the part funded Commonwealth Serum Laboratory refuses to manufacture it due to big pharma contracts, so the Federal Government pigheadedly will not allow it for Australian consumption. The only vax in circulation which deals with delta, developed by an Australian, is NOT allowed for Australia! How stupid have we become as a country?
    We’re allowing the destruction of the economy, people losing their livelihoods, the megalomania of a tinpot state functionary to go unchecked, all based on experimental vaccines which were rolled out before they were even adequately tested under every parameter set out by government in the last 100 years, meanwhile there’s a solution devised by an Australian which inhibits transmission and would IMMEDIATELY negate the need for mandates and passports, yet our government WON’T ALLOW IT?
    For the love of science Australia, wake the f*#k up! Watch this and contact your federal member urgently.
    https://youtu.be/9x2ieHuj8zU

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    • #
      Brenda Spence

      Totally agree! Excellent video, worth watching.

      There has to be money involved somewhere.

      Maybe we could crowd fund the vaccine?

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      • #
        Serp

        Please forget about funding a vaccine we don’t actually need to tackle a virus which kills virtually nobody –ninety-nine point nine nine &c percent survival rate.

        At no time in living memory have people been so ruthlessly stampeded by vested interests.

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      • #
        Vicki

        Brenda, a crowd sourcing has actually commenced. Don’t have the link at hand – but it is the main Aussie one & should be easy to find. Petrovsky’s needs, I think ,, $500,000 to apply for approval from TGA & he has about $150,000 I think. So crowd sourcing needs to raise $340,000 & last time I looked had raised about $150,000.

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    • #
      Doc

      Simon, what are the statistics for this vaccine, like effectiveness, duration there of, side effects and number of doses.
      These matters are as important as knowing that another vaccine exists. Is it ‘just another one’ of very limited use? It must already have this knowledge from pre-release trials, even if they are truncated relative to normal process.

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  • #
    OldOzzie

    Sunday Talks, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg Says West Coast Port Backlog Unlikely to Be Resolved Until Every American is Vaccinated

    Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg appeared on the DC narrative shaping program hosted by swamp gatekeeper Chris Wallace. Within the interview Buttigieg was questioned about why West Coast port backups are worse now than before the White House announced their solution to operate ports 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

    Buttigieg proclaimed the ports are being impacted by the pandemic, and ships stuck in China are the reason why ships are sitting off the coast of California. Yeah, try to square that circular logic. LOL. The scale of incompetence, even in common sense politispeak, is off the charts. The illogical statements by this guy are legendary; however, he outdid himself today.

    Eventually Pete weaves his way through fourteen nonsensical catch phrases to get to a point where he proclaims nothing in the supply chain will start being more efficient until everyone is vaccinated. And yes, it appears that he is so stuck in pretzel-speak, Buttigieg actually believes that.

    All of that said, I wouldn’t post this for review if it wasn’t for the ‘hard-hitting‘ segment from Wallace that comes right after. You just gotta watch (prompted):

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  • #
    Broadie

    John Cullen graphs the Coroner’s data as reported by the CDC.

    Start at 20:45 if you are borderline ‘Cognitive Dissonant’ or in Jo’s case have trouble with ‘Monkeys with Computers’.

    According to the data set John uses, the Coroners are still recording the the ‘Flu’ on death certificates. There was a significant flu season when you plot Pnuemonia & Influenza (P&I). He also places the reporting of ‘with Covid’ deaths from these reports in the context of the CDC statement that 6% of the figure reported had significant other co-morbidity.

    Remember this is just data as reported by the CDC. If John is presenting this incorrectly, let him know

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  • #
    Dave in the States

    My case: I had no symptoms whatsoever the whole time I had it. I would have never known had I not been ordered to get tested because I was exposed to a symptomatic person (a person who was considered fully vaxxed). How many more like me are there?

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    • #
      Vicki

      Lots, I would think. But the benefits of natural immunity after infection iare now denied by the medical bureaucracy.

      It is so crazy, it is no wonder people gravitate to conspiracy theories.

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    • #
      Doc

      But Dave, for some reason, in Australia, you will still have to be vaxed to even enter a business door! Go consider!

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  • #
    Dave in the States

    I have heard radio ads during the last week imploring people to get vaccinated because they claim you can keep getting it over and over again and again-unless you get vaccinated. ????

    That implies that vaccination is more effective than natural immunity or even that there is no natural immunity. If vaccinations are so effective then why the booster shots?

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  • #

    Here is an article on this very paper

    and from the same source here is another about natural immunity. Good luck clean bloods

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    • #
      MP

      Pure bloods, please.

      I have survived 20 months of the most contagious, most lethal disease in history, everyone I know has survived this plague.

      I will see you your covid and raise you two boosters.

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      • #

        and your ancestors survived all the ones before that. If you hadn’t survived you wouldn’t be writing this now would you?

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        • #
          MP

          Yep, and they did not require a vax.

          The rest of what you wrote?

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        • #
          Hanrahan

          If you hadn’t survived you wouldn’t be writing this now would you?

          I know where you are coming from GA. Not all my friends survived the drink-drive, no seatbelt culture.

          I shudder when I think back to Mondays in the smoko room:

          “How did you get home Saturday?”

          “Dunno, but I checked the car next morning and it is unscratched”.

          The fact that I survived doesn’t mean I endorse such activity.

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      • #
        Wirebird

        But haven’t you just told us that you live in rural Queensland, where there has been no covid cases?

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        • #
          MP

          Yep, there have been “cases” and its a tourist destination, so lots of different states plates.
          I have family in a few other states and contacts in many countries and every state. Still got zero!

          What number you got?

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    • #
      clarence.t

      Remember GA, now you have had your twojabs+..

      You are forever tainted with an RNA variation from “normal”.

      Good luck !! 😉

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      • #

        Bearing in mind that the RNA itself is most likely long gone. What we’re concerned about is the immune system that vaccination may alter in a more permanent way.

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        • #

          Don’t confuse him any more than necessary.

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          • #
            clarence.t

            Not at all confused GA.

            Good luck with those multi-hacks to your RNA.

            Enjoy! 🙂

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            • #

              And how does it help us if we battle imaginary foes when there are real ones all around us? Learn the system. RNA is brief, fragile and broken up at the drop of a hat. If you want to convince people who are trained in medicine and biology, start with learning the system, and pick your battles accordingly.

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            I’m sure that there are aspects of human immunity, and it’s acquisition, still to be discovered.
            Perhaps Clarence was thinking of that.

            It’s not what you don’t know, it’s what you don’t know you don’t know.

            If you know what I mean.

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            • #
              Kalm Keith

              Perhaps if we pull back a little and look at the overview.

              Humans have developed over a two million year span and no doubt encountered and survived many viral challenges along with countless other systemic interactions.

              The system has developed to “repel boarders” and probably leave us stronger than when we started; call that natures system.

              While I’ve always had a very positive view of vaccines, recent events with the flu vax and this CV19 “not actually a vaccine” jabberwocky thing make me concerned that the human Vaxxines creators are poorly informed on the mechanism they claim to have created.

              I prefer nature to Faucci.

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          • #

            Gee Aye..The health dept nurse I was in daily contact with when I had covid told me my natural immunity was more effective than a vaccine.She told me I would produce anti bodies for decades and if a new strain evolves that my antibodies would most likely recognise the variant.She then told me to get vaxed!

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        • #
          clarence.t

          “the RNA itself is most likely long gone”

          Not if you keep replacing it every few months.

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          • #

            How long does it last. Where is that data?

            In any case, isn’t a permanent change in immunity which is known and the aim of any vaccination important in its own right?

            Why try to convert it into something we don’t know, and apparently have little evidence of? RNA is an ephemeral thing normally within us. The turnover is so high that a lot of the problems with mRNA vaccines may well be our artificial attempts to make it stick around. Perhaps it is sticking around, but since that is conjecture without evidence, I’m just arguing that we stay focussed on the risks we do we have data for and which are more likely. Accuracy matters.

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            • #
              clarence.t

              That is exactly the problem… Its something we don’t know. !

              Nor do we know the consequences of not knowing.

              I’d rather not play Russian Roulette, even with a gun with a blank in it.

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        • #
          David Maddison

          Yes, the possibility of permanent alteration, in a bad way, of the immune system is a deep concern.

          https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210510/Research-suggests-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-vaccine-reprograms-innate-immune-responses.aspx

          Researchers in The Netherlands and Germany have warned that Pfizer-BioNTech’s coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccine induces complex reprogramming of innate immune responses that should be considered in the development and use of mRNA-based vaccines.

          Jorge Domínguez-Andrés and colleagues say that while the vaccine has been shown to be up to 95% effective in preventing infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) and subsequent COVID-19, little is known about the broad effects the vaccine may have on the innate and adaptive immune responses.

          In the current study (not peer-reviewed*), the research team from Radboud University Medical Center and Erasmus MC in the Netherlands, and the Helmholtz-Centre for Infection Research (HZI), Hannover Medical School (MHH), and the University of Bonn, in Germany, confirmed the efficacy of BNT162b2 vaccination at inducing effective humoral and cellular immunity against several SARS-CoV-2 variants.

          However, they also showed that the vaccine altered the production of inflammatory cytokines by innate immune cells following stimulation with both specific (SARS-CoV-2) and non-specific (viral, fungal and bacterial) stimuli.

          Following vaccination, innate immune cells had a reduced response to toll-like receptor 4 (TLR4), TLR7 and TLR8 – all ligands that play an important role in the immune response to viral infection.

          Neta and colleagues also found that cytokine responses to fungi were increased following vaccination.

          SEE LINK FOR REST

          Here is a yet to be peer reviewed preprint of the paper referred to.

          https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.03.21256520v1

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          • #
            clarence.t

            Yep, and doing the ga method of burying head in sand,

            … and using arrogance as a shield,

            … will not help.

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        • #
          beowulf

          Clarence might be thinking of the studies of reverse-transcription of mRNA into DNA.

          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33330870/

          Researchers at MIT and Harvard:

          “. . . investigated the possibility that SARS-CoV-2 RNAs can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the human genome and that transcription of the integrated sequences might account for PCR-positive tests [in patients after recovery]. In support of this hypothesis, we found chimeric transcripts consisting of viral [sic] fused to cellular sequences in published data sets of SARS-CoV-2 infected cultured cells and primary cells of patients, consistent with the transcription of viral sequences integrated into the genome.”

          Their key findings were as follows: SARS-CoV-2 RNAs “can be reverse transcribed in human cells,” “these DNA sequences can be integrated into the cell genome and subsequently be transcribed”.

          Other medical researchers have described the consequences of mRNA transcribing into your DNA as making “the spike protein production permanent — and probably intergenerational” . . . assuming the patient lives long enough to reproduce.

          According to Ph.D. biochemist and molecular biologist Dr. Doug Corrigan, these important findings run contrary to “current biological dogma” as espoused by the CDC.

          Corrigan continues:

          Ordinarily, RNA is a “notoriously fragile” and unstable molecule.
          But the synthetic mRNA in the COVID vaccines is a different story. In fact, the step that ultimately allowed scientists and vaccine manufacturers to resolve their decades-long mRNA vaccine impasse was when they figured out how to chemically modify mRNA to increase its stability and longevity.

          https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/how-do-mrna-vaccines-work

          Confirmatory evidence is lacking “to show that the spike protein only is expressed for a short amount of time (say 1-3 days) after vaccination,” adding, “We think that this is the case, but there is no evidence for that.”

          Nor is reverse transcription uncommon. Geneticists report that “Over 40% of mammalian genomes comprise the products of reverse transcription.”

          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26104559/

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        Vlad the Impaler

        If you can send that to M4GW (Minnesotans for Global Warming) they might be able to make a video to go along with it (lip synching to it). If you haven’t seen it, their “I’m a Denier” is one of my favorites (think: “I’m a Believer”). I do not know if they’ve done any “bug” videos, but this would be priceless!

        V.t.I.

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      Doc

      Interesting. On the face of it, this a complete reversal to what is the commonly considered relativity of both measures giving immunity. Maybe the naturally acquired immunity is more specific to the infecting virus with little cover for mutations. The argument has been that the multipoint focus of naturally acquired immunity should make it superior to the localised focus of the vaccines. (as I understand it)
      The best thing that could happen would be for this virus to mutate itself out of existence. Otherwise, about every 6 months, if we only have current vaccines to rely on, we are going to need boosters. As one that’s had a modicum of cardiac reactions each of two doses, that thought doesn’t fill me with joy at all.

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      Broadie

      May I use a cricketing analogy GA. Your paper finds the vaccinated batsman is multiple times better at blocking the ball aimed at the stumps (Sars-Cov-2 spike protein). The problem occurs when nature bowls a bouncer at the head.

      Hence the ancestors who survived did not hide away. They fought, kissed and hugged, sharing the mutations and the bits and pieces of Jo’s unstable RNA viruses. These batsmen, our Ancestors, therefore had a range of defenses rather than one specialist shot.

      Hate analogies? here is another one. The Maginot Line. An expensive defense that proved ineffectual against a wiley opponent.

      The Maginot Line (French: Ligne Maginot, IPA: [liɲ maʒino]), named after the French Minister of War André Maginot, is a line of concrete fortifications, obstacles and weapon installations built by France in the 1930s to deter invasion by Germany and force them to move around the fortifications. The Maginot Line was impervious to most forms of attack. In consequence, the Germans invaded through the Low Countries in 1940, passing it to the north. The line, which was supposed to be fully extended further towards the west to avoid such an occurrence, was finally scaled back in response to demands from Belgium, which feared it would be sacrificed in the event of another German invasion. The line has since become a metaphor for expensive efforts that offer a false sense of security.[1]

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        I don’t hate analogies per se. Yours were pretty poor though.

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          Broadie

          Deal with facts then:

          Now they are vaccinating children, the adverse events are stark against the background of a healthy glowing child. Yet lovely caring Health Professionals are still lining up their children to be given a variety of compounds with various vectors. Forget the pain now, what about the problems when these young families attempt to conceive in the future?

          The lesson learned is that you cannot confront someone suffering from Cognitive Dissonance with the obvious without you becoming the object of their fears.

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    clarence.t

    Remember that once you have had the twojabs+…

    There is no going back. !

    If there are long terms problems in efficacy and adverse reaction issues…

    … you are stuck with them.

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    Rod

    Back online after the big move. Took longer than expected but oh so nice here!

    50 years on and nothing’s changed:

    1971 tv, vaccines, lies and truths.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yfaAtdTgBGk

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    Ando

    I know first hand of a relative that had covid before vax release. Infected grand total of 0% in her household of 4 others, including her partner.

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    Kalm Keith

    This CV19 disease is terrible, and we must lock down until it is gone.

    In Australia in the last 18 months we have lost about 1400 dead.

    Allied to that diabetes was the underlying or associated cause of death in around 13,300 deaths per year between 1997 and 2018.

    Yes, Australia is tackling the right problem.

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    CHRIS

    What in blazes is everyone raving on about?? COVID 19 is just a virus, and like all other viruses, it can mutate to other, perhaps more deadly, strains; BIG DEAL. Humans have survived for more than 40000 millenia, adapting to new viruses and their challenges. What about the common cold? That virus was once lethal… now it is just an irritation. Some perspective is required here. So we have a virus that has killed nearly 5 million people… so what?? And KK, what is your point about diabetes?????

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      MP

      Yes, Australia is tackling the right problem.

      That is the point.

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      Kalm Keith

      The point about diabetes, pardon my sarcasm, is that it kills, and has killed many more people than the virus and absolutely nothing is done to stop it.

      This tends to suggest that Kovid19 is a special disease in the eyes of politicians and is worthy of their attention and support.

      Obviously from the political approach to Diabetes we can assume that the primary concern for politicians is not the death of their constituents.

      What is it?

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      Ross

      A virus that killed 5m (with/ from COVID) people in about 2 years- in that time the earth’s human population increased by about 100m. You’re correct, because we have lost perspective. Were we saving the elderly? Definitely NOT. My 91 father was essentially locked up for the best part of 2020 and 2021 and his quality of life was, well, crap. Then he died in aged care in June and because of lockdown none of his family were with him during the final hour.

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        Kalm Keith

        When a society oversees that, and is unbending, it is no longer a society.

        It’s not uncommon for families to be absent from that important moment for many reasons, but when that reason is government bloody mindedness it’s criminal.

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        MP

        My father also passed because of the lock downs, cancer treatment was stoped before it started. Still I know of nobody who died from the Kung flu.

        These stories are important to get out.

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      Doc

      Chris, I think KK is actually making your point!

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        Kalm Keith

        Diabetes is a serious problem that takes more lives than CV19.

        It breaks my heart to see people in the shopping centre in a motorised wheel chair, with tight white compression leggings on, unable to walk because they are overweight.

        Affluenza.

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    OldOzzie

    Andrew Bolt: Why hyping vaccine mandates does more harm than good

    Vaccines save lives but by banning the unvaccinated from shops and events to “keep us safe”, our politicians are exaggerating the dangers of not being jabbed.

    Last Thursday, the dictatorial Victorian government kept secret information we need now that politicians are treating the unvaccinated like lepers.

    Another 25 people had died – the third highest toll in this pandemic – even though nearly 80 per cent of adults have been vaccinated.

    How could this be? Were the dead all unvaccinated?

    But deputy chief health officer Ben Cowie said while the data was available, “we’re not going to be reporting on that”. Excuse me? Cowie never said why. I’m guessing it’s because many of the dead had been vaccinated.

    Be clear. I am vaccinated. I think vaccines save lives – about 70 per cent of Victorians in hospital with the virus last week weren’t vaccinated.

    So I understand why the government wouldn’t want to say anything that might give people an excuse not to get vaccinated, especially when the unvaccinated are clogging up hospitals.

    But secrecy also has its price.

    A study in the Lancet medical journal suggests while vaccines do prevent most infected people from getting very sick or dying, they’re less effective in stopping people from being infectious.

    Vaccinated people who were sick were about as likely as the unvaccinated to infect people at home – the most common site of infection – because they “have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully-vaccinated contacts”.

    Worse, an Oxford University study of its Astra Zeneca vaccine found it worked well at first at stopping the injected from infecting close contacts, but “three months later, that chance rose to 67 per cent … on par with the likelihood that an unvaccinated person will spread the virus”.

    Ireland has seen the same thing. It has a population the size of Melbourne’s and Europe highest vaccination rate – 89 per cent of everyone over 12.

    Yet infections have surged to nearly 3000 a day, albeit with just two deaths a day. Chief medical officer Tony Holohan said vaccines were good at saving people from dying but “probably not performing as well as we might have hoped in terms of preventing transmission”.

    So what does this tell us, now our politicians are banning the unvaccinated from shops and events to “keep us safe”? It says they’re exaggerating the danger of the unvaccinated. Vaccines are now less about stopping infections spreading than about saving the lives of the infected.

    There’s another danger. Hyping vaccine mandates could encourage a false sense of security. The vaccinated can also be dangerous.

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      Ross

      There was also no need for the hype. Australia has traditionally been one of the highest supporters (if not best) of public health vaccination. For decades. There was no need for coercion. People in our health bureaucracy somehow forgot this very important medical history or just chose to ignore it. I have no doubt we could have reached very respectable COVID vaccine levels in our own lay back sort of way. If anything it was lockdowns that hindered the vaccine update because of the relative lack of community infection. This is why WA and Qld and still lagging.

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    Major. Distraction

    I mean no offence, but the issues currently being played out. Is all orchestrated. If you care to take some time to watch this video and share it with all your friends and family. You will see the construction of something more Nefarious than Covid itself. Covid is the catalyst. If you think you are waking up now, you’re clearly not wide awake to its inception. Covid is the new fear narrative designed for you to give up total control to one global digital ID vaccine passport. Labelled Medical surveillance. The vaccine passport is a copy of the AADHAAR app used in India. Bill Gates has already created this Passport which will require all of your biometrics, bank accounts, medical history, it will track you and record every purchase you make. It will do everything for you so you don’t have to do a thing.
    Look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxvNzzgoJX8

    To see who is behind this design to usher in this new Medical surveillance. Watch below!
    https://rumble.com/vn7lf5-monopoly-who-owns-the-world-must-see.html

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    OldOzzie

    QLD flattening the curve – by putting off 4,000 health workers.

    Monday, 01 November 2021

    So, if I am a health worker in Queensland, even if I am already vaxed I would decline to answer any questions about my vax status. I get stood down on full pay. Like an extra paid holiday. Then when they threaten me with the sack, I say go ahead. Then if and when that happens, I say but the legislation says I have to be vaxed, not prove it. I am vaxed, and was when the orders were made. Sue for wrongful dismissal. get more money from the government.

    How could it possibly go wrong???

    Masked up vaxxed hyocrites at the climates summit

    Masks just for the photo op

    https://twitter.com/beingrealmac/status/1454857848115146755

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    Rolf

    That study is really interesting. In the supplement you will find the most interesting in Table 1. You have to download separately.

    Interesting is that 38 of 39 breakthrough infections was Delta.

    At the same time 22 from 113 infections in unvaccinated was Delta.

    This has many implications.

    Delta mostly spread among vaccinated. Vaccine protects against Alfa and original version of virus. Both witch with seem to be retracting in numbers.

    What’s happening is a pandemic among vaccinated. Probably assisted by VED. Vaccine enhanced decrease.

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      Broadie

      What’s happening is a pandemic among vaccinated. Probably assisted by VED. Vaccine enhanced decrease.

      Soon to be a panic pandemic and looking to blame the unvaccinated. See ‘Spars2‘ for the next stage.
      Funny how each time proportion or context is given to official figures they fall into a heap. I looked at those numbers and thought they only lead to more questions, you have brought some of them into a sharper focus.

      Interesting is that 38 of 39 breakthrough infections was Delta.

      At the same time 22 from 113 infections in unvaccinated was Delta

      Nice Work

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    Rolf

    That study is really interesting. In the supplement you will find the most interesting in Table 1. You have to download separately.

    Interesting is that 38 of 39 breakthrough infections was Delta.

    At the same time 22 from 113 infections in unvaccinated was Delta.

    This has many implications.

    Delta mostly spread among vaccinated. Vaccine protects against Alfa and original version of virus. Both witch with seem to be retracting in numbers.

    What’s happening is a pandemic among vaccinated. Probably assisted by VED. Vaccine enhanced decease.

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    John+R+Smith

    I must say,
    I get confused about when human influence on nature is bad, and when it is good.
    I notice the cheerleaders keep switching sides of the field.
    And they are always hysterical and unattractive.

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    Even though vaccinated people have antibodies to the spike protein, people with natural protection have antibodies to the nucleocapsid as well!!!

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    David Maddison

    Status of Novavax. Where is it?

    Australia mentioned.

    https://youtu.be/YBWdCOwEP7s

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      Lucky

      Such impatience displays lack of confidence in our regulators who can claim-
      (one point each time)

      -No longer needed
      -We have sufficient of the tried and tested brands on existing contracts
      -Lack of consistency in the products from the various manufacturing lines
      -95% efficacy is no longer sufficient
      -A spelling error in the material destroys credibility of the proposal
      -Has not been tested on a sufficiently wide range of ethnicities to represent national composition
      -No test data provided on the over 99 age group nor on the transgenderized
      -World-wide supply-chain issues not addressed
      -100% fatality rate where ivermectin detected not demonstrated.

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