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Did they forget to tell us? Leaky vaccines may trigger an arms race that makes Covid more dangerous

Imperfect storm on the way?

Coronavirus-vaccine. Photo

Adam Gaertner has posted a zinger of a provocative article, to say the least. Thanks to David Archibald author of The Anticancer Garden in Australia for pointing me at it.

A New Mutation threatens a Fragile Recovery

What if mass vaccination with imperfect vaccines could promote the survival of nastier strains of Covid? What if the leaky vaccines act like a filter for more dangerous versions of SARS2?

This doesn’t happen with most vaccines, only “leaky” ones.  But it has happened in chickens with a virus called Marek’s disease.

Leaky vaccines generate a half-baked immune response  — one that stops illness, but allows transmission, so a vaccinated person can theoretically infect others. This is bad but not awful — as long as the virus gets eliminated in a timely fashion. But if the virus can cloak itself from the immune system, and hide in protected cells, then it can keep replicating for a long time, and eventually, randomly, it will escape the imperfect immune response. Those  mutants will be resistant to the antibodies or t-cell tricks. Thus newer strains of Covid may arise that are already pre-loaded with goodies to get around our immune system.

This is not how pandemics normally work

In most pandemics, after a few years, the nicer strains out-compete the nastier ones. Natural selection favours viruses that don’t kill or disable their human shedders. A sick body on the move is a more efficient spreader than someone flat out on their back in bed. It takes two things to break that pattern. One is a leaky or imperfect vaccine. The other thing is that this virus appears to have the ability (like Marek’s disease) to cloak itself from our immune system and hide in protected cells. This combination could make for a perfect storm, where vaccinated people feel OK, but viruses hidden away within keep sending out copies that test the half-baked immune response in a holding pattern until one lucky mutant virus escapes the net. The new variant is nastier and trickier than the last one and we need to redesign a new vaccine. Repeat, rinse, recycle a few times and we might be breeding a virus that is more easily spread and has a higher mortality rate — especially for unvaccinated people.

This process is called immune escape, and once you know where to look, it seems virologists have been warning of it (and here, and here).  But not necessarily expanding on just how bad it could be. They only mention that we might have to produce a new vaccine. (Gosh, darn, won’t Big Pharma be disappointed?) But there are reports of new “immune escape” variants, like the one in West Bengal.

Look at what happened to chickens and Marek disease

Chicken, Photo. William Moreland. Unsplash.

Photo by William Moreland.

Who knew? In the last six years it’s been confirmed and accepted that vaccines played a role in creating a much nastier and deadlier form of Marek disease in chickens (MDV). Over the last 50 years, we’ve made vaccines that stop the chickens getting cancer and dying, but don’t stop them shedding virus and infecting other chickens. Unlike most viruses MDV can sit latent “for life” and slowly churn out copies while also suppressing the immune system. So each chicken becomes a kind of slow slot machine in a game of viral poker. The chickens immune system holds it at bay, but sooner or later, the virus finds an escape route around the immune system, becoming more infectious, more virulent, and effectively bypassing the current vaccine. This process started in 1970 with the first vaccine which at the time stopped 99% of Marek’s disease. The disease originally had a low mortality but after 50 years, the MDV virus has become a kind of monster, and is considered to be 100% fatal to unvaccinated chickens. For a chicken, the odds are worse than Ebola. What have we done?

How imperfect vaccines created the conditions to select for a nastier disease

Andrew Read et al, in 2015:

MDV became increasingly virulent over the second half of the 20th century [,]. Until the 1950s, strains of MDV circulating on poultry farms caused a mildly paralytic disease, with lesions largely restricted to peripheral nervous tissue. Death was relatively rare. Today, hyperpathogenic strains are present worldwide. These strains induce lymphomas in a wide range of organs and mortality rates of up to 100% in unvaccinated birds. So far as we are aware, no one has been able to isolate non-lethal MDV strains from today’s commercial (vaccinated) poultry operations [,]. Quite what promoted this viral evolution is unclear.

 The imperfect-vaccine hypothesis was suggested as an evolutionary mechanism by which immunization might drive MDV virulence evolution [], but there has been no experimental confirmation. Our data provide that: by enhancing host survival but not preventing viral shedding, MDV vaccination of hens or offspring greatly prolongs the infectious periods of hyperpathogenic strains, and hence the amount of virus they shed into the environment.

Andrew Read proposed this imperfect-vaccine idea in 2001, but it was purely theoretical until he was able to test and confirm it in 2015. His work was described by Ed Yong, National Geographic:

The duo infected vaccinated and unvaccinated chicks with five different strains of Marek’s virus, of varying virulence. They found that when unvaccinated birds are infected with mild strains, they shed plenty of viruses into their surroundings. If they contract the most lethal strains, they die before this can happen, and their infections stop with them. In the vaccinated chicks, this pattern flips. The milder strains are suppressed but the lethal ones, which the birds can now withstand, flood into the environment at a thousand times their usual numbers.

So don’t mix vaccinated and unvaccinated chickens, right? I can’t see this working in humans…

Read and Nair also found that the “lethal” strains could spread from one vaccinated individual to another, and that unvaccinated chickens were at greatest risk of disease and death if they were housed with vaccinated ones.

The chicken industry has learned to live with Mareks disease. Unvaccinated chickens though, have not.  And the industry loses $2b a year as well. Chicks are reared separately from mum and dad apparently, so they can survive long enough to get the vaccine and get protection before they risk catching the disease. Some people keep unvaccinated backyard flocks, but those chickens don’t go on holidays, or to weddings or funerals and rarely meet other chickens. None of this translates too well to homo sapiens. Dystopia 2025?

Look at the mutations in just one patient alone:

To get an idea of how big a problem this could be, consider that one particular transplant patient who had Covid and was on immunosuppressants, was infected for 170 days last year before finally clearing the infection. Weigang et al 2021, followed him closely. They identified the different mutants as they arose, and also testing them to see if they could infect live cells in a lab. For those of us who like genetic engineering, this paper is like a reality TV show with live sequencing. Hot

Dr Liji Thomas MD

The patient developed mildly symptomatic COVID-19, and tested positive for 145 days. The daily swabs showed the virus was developing an array of substitutions and deletions of amino acids in the spike protein, which were partly resistant to neutralizing antibodies.

Did remdesivir save the day? Using antivirals to stop extended infections makes sense, given the risks. (But why wait til Day 140 when we could start on Day 1?)

The aim was to allow the body to mount a more effective antiviral response. On day 140 the patient remained RT PCR positive, and was put on remdesivir for 10 days. From day 149 to 189, all subsequent tests were negative, and the pathogen could no longer be isolated, indicating viral clearance.

Do the math: There are 1-2 new mutations per month, per infected person?

The typical rate of mutations is about 1-2 mutations a month, and this was confirmed in the present patient, with the relative stability of the viral genome over the early period of the infection.

From day 42, mutations began to accumulate, including the D614G substitution that is now globally dominant.

The researchers tested the various versions of SARS2 in mice and found that the mutations made the virus less deadly between days 35 and 105. But the virus was also picking up mutations that meant antibodies were not binding as well to it.

The study thus supports the emergence of new variants that evade immunity in chronically immunosuppressed patients, as also reported with patients treated repeatedly with antibody cocktails and convalescent plasma. The variants in this study resemble the current UK, South African and Brazil variants, with escape mutations in the same spike region. (Weigang et al 2021).

Those were some pretty serious mutations in just one guy?

This doesn’t happen with all leaky vaccines. For example, Poliovirus vaccine allows some leakage but after fifty years of use, the virulence hasn’t increased. However shedding of poliovirus only lasts for two weeks, not months, not long enough to generate mutations perhaps?

Where to next?

If vaccinated people are or start to produce more deadly variants, there will be even more calls (if that’s possible) to vaccinate everyone on Earth plus their cats. People may use the term “herd immunity” but it doesn’t apply. Herd immunity means immunized people protect the vulnerable by not transmitting the virus. And even if we could and did vaccinate everyone (ignoring all the risks and ethical questions for the moment) that isn’t a solution. It’s just a temporary stop-gap until the next and nastier round in the arms race. Obviously we are not going to live like chickens with a highly fatal disease knocking off the unvaccinated. (Surely?!)

Things we can do:

  1. Use antivirals to finish the job and kill off the dangerous mutations in vivo before they get out. We already have  Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, Budesonide, Bromhexine, Zinc, and others. Did I say Ivermectin?
  2. Develop perfect vaccines (figure out how to get our immune systems to avoid infection, and eliminate the virus). The good new is that five years after the idea of leaky vaccines was confirmed, there is a new Marek’s Disease vaccine that has stopped chickens shedding the virus. So it can be done.
  3. Develop new techniques like CRISPR or siRNA to edit those viral genes right out of our cells.
  4. In the meantime, hard borders will slow this down (for nations like Australia and New Zealand). Incoming travellers may need to be monitored to make sure the virus is not hiding and being reactivated

In a bioweapons arms race (with a virus, if not a nation) all the West should be setting up bigger and better biotech labs. A bonanza of discoveries will come out of these medical advances, but every month matters. We may be on the cusp of the new glorious antivirals era, much like the transformation we saw after World War II with antibiotics. Feeling sick, just pop in to the doc and get an antiviral on the way to work?  Why waste another dollar on fake green energy if we can be biotech leaders instead?

It’s possible that our immune system may have some extra tricks we don’t know about. And it’s possible that in order to hide long term in our cells, or fool our immune system, that it may also give up some virulence or transmissibility. The whole topic of how this virus cloaks itself, reduces interferon signalling, changes MHC-I presentation, and avoids CD8 cells is too big for today. We know the vaccines are leaky. We don’t know how often people will become long term shedders.

PS: To commenters — thanks and apologies to those who mentioned some version of this kind of threat before. I needed to read the detailed list of journals with medical jargon to appreciate it.

In comments please write carefully and accurately, especially if you are not familiar with virology.  Both the virus and our immune system are a lot more complicated than most people realize. And many national commentators, like CEOs of airlines, seem to think vaccines are a binary yes-no treatment.

REFERENCES

Read AF, Baigent SJ, Powers C, Kgosana LB, Blackwell L, Smith LP, Kennedy DA, Walkden-Brown SW, Nair VK (July 2015). “Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens”. PLOS Biology. 13 (7): e1002198.

Weigang, S. et al. (2021). Within-host evolution of SARS-CoV-2 in an immunosuppressed COVID-19 patient: a source of immune escape variants. medRxiv preprint. https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.04.30.21256244https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.30.21256244v1

Chicken photo by William Moreland on Unsplash

Vaccine photo by Hakan Nural on Unsplash

9.3 out of 10 based on 66 ratings

158 comments to Did they forget to tell us? Leaky vaccines may trigger an arms race that makes Covid more dangerous

  • #
    red edwards

    Well done, Jo!

    190

    • #
      ColA

      Jo,

      Given the effectivness of Ivermectin (IVM) to treat Covid-19, particularly in the early stages, why aren’t the Australian authorities giving every incomming hotel quaranten person a course of IVM while they are there for 14 days, sureley that would give an extra benifit and it wouild reduce the chance of problems with leaky vaccines?

      Could it be our brilliant doctors are following WHO and CDC and not actually following the science?? Or is it because there is no big pharma money in IVM?

      460

      • #
        • #
          William Astley

          Thanks ColA. Good link!

          Ivermectin appears to be a covid treatment breakthrough. What is needed is one company/one country to come up with a way to breakthrough the non scientific barriers.

          A Canadian company appears to heading to phase 1 trials for a Ivermectin delivery system to treat and protect against covid.

          A super effective covid prevention/early treatment would be very profitable and would deweaponize covid.

          https://www.globenewswire.com/en/news-release/2021/05/18/2231755/0/en/Mountain-Valley-MD-Receives-Successful-Results-From-BSL-4-COVID-19-Clearance-Trial-on-Three-Variants-Tested-With-Ivectosol.html

          “TORONTO, May 18, 2021 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) — Mountain Valley MD Holdings Inc. (the “Company” or “MVMD”) (CSE: MVMD) (FRA:20MP) is pleased to announce it has received its third-party Bio Safety Level 4 (“BSL-4”) lab study results from its recent COVID-19 viral clearance study conducted with its solubilized Ivermectin technology – Ivectosol™.
          Study Results

          • A single dose of 2.5 milligrams per kilogram of Ivectosol™ was effective at interfering with viral replication and driving viral clearance of the B.1.1.7 COVID-19 variant.
          • Tests done in vitro showed the same antiviral effect at 5uM Ivectosol™ concentration after 24 hours and again after 48 hours against all three COVID-19 variants tested – the original B.1.1.7 variant, the South African B.1.351 variant, and the P.1 Brazil variant.

          ….viral clearance effect on the three targeted variants we tested in the strictest lab environment in the world provides us with the confidence to pursue immediate human applications.

          …We plan to progress quickly into phase one human trials to support our vision for broad adoption and to also provide necessary and urgent support for the most disadvantaged communities globally.”

          The BSL-4 study was the first of its kind ever conducted with human grade solubilized Ivermectin anywhere in the world. This was also the world’s first to study to conduct in vitro replication on all three COVID-19 variants studied. …..

          ……To assess the Company’s Ivectosol™ performance, transgenic mice were modified with human ACE2 receptors and then dosed by aerosolization with COVID-19. After five days, the subject mice were dosed with ascending therapeutic doses of Ivectosol™ as intramuscular injection.”

          20

      • #
        Ross Holding

        Too sensible ColA- I had that thought last week. Anyone returning to this country given the choice. Take early anti virals ( like ivermectin/ HCQ+ Zinc etc) and potentially reduce quarantine time or endure the full 14 days.

        120

      • #
        Len

        Victoria’s CHO, Brett Sutton is the brother of Trevor Sutton who is the husband of Jane Halton who represented Australia at Event 201 held on 18th October 2019 in New York City.They held a pandemic simulation exercise. Jan is chair of a board at the W.H.O. and works for the Bi and Linda Gates Foundation.Jan is Australia’s Covid – 19 Coordinator and she is the person that both our Federal and State Governments answer to

        111

        • #
          Ross

          Yep, has previously been head of Federal Health department under John Howard etc. She’s not a medical doctor, but graduated in psychology. If she is Australia’s COVID 19 co-ordinator then maybe she has a conflict of interest, particularly if Bill Gates has investment in the Moderna vaccine.

          160

  • #
    red edwards

    As to polio. Mutation rates vary highly from virus to virus. Single strand RNA viruses mutate the most rapidly, and double strand DNA mutate the slowest.
    Polio has a slow rate, the vaccines in the mid 1970’s only had to block 3 strains. Plus, as you clear a geographic area of the virus, there is nothing to mutate there. Still, even the live strain vaccines can “drift” occasionally, as they have been proven to cause the occasional case of polio. Which is why the “cleared” areas use killed virus vaccine instead of live virus vaccine.

    It’s armour versus bullets. . .

    231

  • #
    FijiDave

    Thanks, Jo.

    A well written article. It seems that the more we think we know about corona viruses, it exposes how little we really know. Meanwhile, politicians enable boffins to fiddle with mutations in labs that should be safely rotating the planet in space.

    2020 – 2021 seems to have the same inevitable march to catastrophe as 1914.* Everyone seemed to know what was coming but were incapable of doing anything about it.

    *Catastrophe. Europe goes to War 1914. Max Hastings

    170

  • #
    RicDre

    And speaking of potentially leaky viruses:

    9 vaccinated Yankees [Baseball] team and staff tested positive for Covid — here’s how that happens

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/new-york-yankees-breakthrough-covid-cases-in-vaccinated-team-members.html

    The article say:

    In the general population, as of April 26, more than 95 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against Covid, and the CDC reported 9,245 breakthrough cases. The CDC defines a “breakthrough” infection as “the detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA or antigen in a respiratory specimen collected from a person 14 days [or more] after they have completed all recommended doses of a U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized COVID-19 vaccine

    It also says:

    …it’s actually likely that the CDC’s numbers are missing a lot of breakthrough cases happening in the country. That’s because testing is way down, especially for vaccinated people, says Zach Binney, an epidemiologist at Oxford College of Emory University.

    130

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    It occurs to me that with vaccines that using mRNA to work, could they be theoretically programmed / engineered to be very dangerous and dare I say it, weaponized?

    Im sure Im not the only one to think this. And if so, if you could get your enemy to willingly take such a thing?

    230

    • #
      el gordo

      I’m not getting the vaccine and have decided to remain an isolate indefinitely.

      112

    • #
      el gordo

      A third of the Australian population will give it a miss.

      ‘Doubts about side-effects top the list of reasons for alarming levels of vaccine hesitancy, but a new survey also shows many believe there is no rush to take a jab while borders are shut.’ (SMH)

      211

      • #
        Klem

        There’s no rush to get the jab because the survival rate is 99% without it.

        213

      • #
        Epicurious

        Had lunch today with a dozen old farts like myself. All but 2 of us have had the jab. I couldn’t believe it. Later spoke with a surgeon friend of mine and asked him would he have it? He said “why would I take the risk?”

        81

        • #
          JohnPAK

          A well respected local GP made the comment that here in AU the survival of COVID infection without significant illness is about 998 per 1000 whereas we don’t really know the long-term consequences of the experimental mRNA therapy.
          My dentist said it’s a risk assessment but he has no data to assess the risk of the experimental shots. He fears that he will be obliged to have the Pfizer item in order to maintain his medical registration.

          40

          • #

            It’s quite rational here in Covid free Australia to wait for more data on that vaccine. (Or to wait til the mutants sort themselves out).

            Be aware the Case Fatality Rate in Australia is 3%. 1 in 33 people who tested positive have died, and we have the best testing regimen in the world.

            Asymptomatic estimates vary from 15% to 90%.

            And of people who caught mild cases of Covid and were followed, about one third still have some symptoms 6 months later. “even relatively healthy individuals may face long-term impacts from their illness.””

            44

            • #
            • #
              RicDre

              Jo, question:

              Does Australia use Ivermectin & HCQ in early treatment of patients with mild cases of Covid? If the answer is no, do you think using Ivermectin & HCQ early in their treatment would lessen the symptoms in that 1/3 of patents that still have some symptoms 6 months later?

              10

              • #
                Epicurious

                Ric, from all my readings I understand that in Oz these remedial drugs are not allowed for CV, but are for other diseases such as malaria. The health authoritarians are forbidding medical practitioners to practice what they think best. They are only useful in the early stages of the disease. It would certainly be the basis of a good paper for a US practitioner to write up his outcomes from early treatment through 1 year. Maybe in time we will see this, given a brave publication will print them.

                10

              • #

                These antivirals are maybe ? allowed as off label prescriptions but I doubt that is happening much, or if it is, I haven’t heard of it.

                At one time docs in QLD could face jail for prescribing HCQ for Covid. I suspect most Australians have no idea how little freedom their medico’s have.

                00

            • #
              Philip

              On Covid you’re a rare spot of reality and common sense (and scientific analysis) Jo. Appreciate your commentary.

              20

            • #
              Tom

              High mortality because huge number of the infected were old vulnerable people.
              Misleading Jo.

              10

              • #
                David 6

                Until the known number of exposed individuals are known, ( how many asymptomatic or mild undiagnosed exist) we cannot know the true CFR.

                10

        • #
          Klem

          Our locsl top health officials have been publicly scolding pregnant women for not getting the jab until after their pregnancy is over.

          I dont know, Our health officials must think women suddenly become stupid when they’re pregnant or something.

          20

      • #
        sophocles

        I will not accept the medication. None are vaccines, even though they are called such.

        Here’s one of my reasons:

        https://leohohmann.com/2021/03/17/top-vaccine-expert-calls-for-global-moratorium-on-covid-injections/

        Here’s a second one of my reasons:

        https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/01/no_author/professor-dolores-cahill-why-people-will-start-dying-a-few-months-after-the-first-mrna-vaccination

        A third reason is that an innovative Israeli invention, an inhalation (EXO-CD24 I think it’s called), which neither Australia nor NZ seem to have heard of, is still unavailable. It would be an ideal agent to counter my non-vaccination reasons. So far, it’s still under testing. It appears to be 95% effective.

        Ivormectin seems to be unrecognised by NZ’s wonderfully up-to-date and innovative (</sarc>) health department, as does HCQ. I’m beginning to think the NZ Health department thinks it has a duty to kill as many NZers as it can… I think I can get it from any veterinary surgeon, but I could be wrong.

        I maintain a high level of Vitamin-D 3 with Vitamin-C to maintain as strong an immune system as possible. It may get me one day, but it hasn’t so far.

        50

    • #
      ghl

      I have read that various vaccines vary in effectiveness from 65% to 95%. Surely a 65% vaccine is generating a 35% population who know they are vaccinated and will go on to catch and spread the virus. Is this as dumb as it seems.

      110

      • #
        John R Smith

        Seems a very good point.
        CRT and gender politics have a parallel insidious dumbness.
        The really scary thing is the cultural hysteria part.
        And the social consequences for the those of us that dare to notice.
        I don’t remember the children’s story warning us about how dangerous it was to see the naked emperor.

        50

        • #

          Worse, check what “effectiveness” means. I understand it means it will prevent hospitalization or death, not infection or transmission, which is exactly the problem discussed in the post.

          Most people getting the vaccine may still be able to catch silent Covid, and spread it, and may get some asymoptomatic damage. It’s better than ending up dead, but it won’t protect people around you, and in the long run may contribute to nastier mutations.

          10

          • #
            ghl

            Hi Jo
            Using a partially effective vaccine is like taking half a course of antibiotics.
            Governments are influenced by big money.
            Big money cares nothing for people.
            We have seen this in various wars and the AGW con.
            The most infuriating part is the ignorance, bias, malice and incompetence of the press. Also their nauseating smug assumption of virtue.

            20

    • #
      • #
        Ronin

        Remember that University of Queensland covid19 vax that they admitted wasn’t a good look and quietly let it drop, it had enough HIV material in it to give you a positive HIV test.
        I wonder what that stuff was doing in a vaccine for SARSCOV 2.

        50

        • #
          el gordo

          It was only a technical issue.

          ‘The UQ vaccine’s molecular clamp technology uses two fragments of a protein found in HIV that were used to hold together the key part of the SARS-Cov-2 virus, so the immune system could learn to recognise it.’ (ABC)

          20

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Or was it?

            I recall the initial report from India that reported the apparent HIV link, was crushed rapidly……

            70

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            You believe their ABC el gordo?

            Where’s your scepticism for that green left pack of ratbags?

            40

    • #
      wokebuster

      Hang on. We are the enemy. Especially the free thinkers that congregate on this forum.

      40

  • #

    57 scientists and doctors call for immediate halt to all Covid-19 “vaccinations”

    A group of 57 leading scientists, physicians and political experts has released a report calling for questioning the safety and effectiveness of current COVID-19 “vaccines” and is now calling for an immediate end to all immunization programs. Among them is geneticist Alexandra Henrion-Caude.
    The therapies used called “vaccines” do not meet the definition of the word vaccine and it would be more appropriate to name them gene therapies or vaccine-vector therapies.

    252

    • #
      ColA

      This is even more interesting, I wonder if it will make it onto the Lame Stream Bleedia!

      https://sorendreier.com/1000-lawyers-and-10000-doctors-have-filed-a-lawsuit-for-violations-of-the-nuremberg-code/

      A large team of more than 1,000 lawyers and over 10,000 medical experts, led by Dr. Reiner Fuellmich, has initiated legal proceedings against the CDC, WHO and the Davos Group for crimes against humanity.

      Fuellmich and his team present the incorrect PCR test and the order for doctors to describe any comorbidity death as a Covid death – as fraud.

      342

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      ANd it appears the fear p0rn is ramping up…..are the Elite tryng to get the bulk of the population to bully those who dont want it, into submission?

      https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/experts-warn-australia-at-risk-of-third-covid-wave-without-widespread-vaccination/ar-BB1gSy4Q?li=AAgfYrC

      “At least 70 per cent of the population will need to be vaccinated before coronavirus can be allowed to circulate in the community, or Australia will risk a third wave that will see hospitals overrun with younger patients.

      “But Professor Baxter said that while the death rate would be lower once the most at-risk people had been vaccinated, it would not prevent deaths nor even another wave of the virus in Australia.

      Well, the roads will be less crowded…..

      50

    • #
      Lucky

      Good, it is France Soir. and yes it instantly translates on opening into English.

      I did not like the justification using the- “precautionary principle” which is not a principle and is illogical, but the argument holds without that.
      Other interesting article are linked, note that comments are in French.

      10

  • #

    Day 8 therapy for COVID-19

    This article focuses on the concept of “8th Day Therapy” developed by Dr. Shankara Chetty of South Africa, who treated some 4,000 COVID-19 patients and studied the pathogenesis of the disease and refined its treatments at the same time.

    No idea, how serious that is, but an interesting view,but if true, it’s a complete new aspect with regard to vaccinated people.

    60

  • #
    Broadie

    A few years ago we were looking at Modern Medicine developing techniques that would eliminate most diseases and genetic conditions.

    In a bioweapons arms race (with a virus, if not a nation) all the West should be setting up bigger and better biotech labs.

    So excellent idea, let us be positive and get back on the road.

    Where to start on this Biolab?

    Step (A) Free our entrepreneurs and the Capital to fund them.

    Step (B) Free our children from their Orwellian prisons of guilt and visions of catastrophe, so they have he tools to run these labs. Reading and math skills rather than TicToc.

    How to achieve this?

    The ‘Really Great Reset’. reset our Political system to where our representatives lived and breathed in our communities. Stop funding the One Party State out of public revenue and recapture the ‘Precincts’ as is happening in the US.

    90

    • #

      Good question. Difficult answer. Any small biotech that’s private that comes up with a discovery that threatens Big Pharma will be bought up by Big Pharma.

      Any public organisation is controlled by the deep state. This should be a great moment for public science, but public private partnerships or influence of Big Money on universities or media or trade associations, or the TGA, FDA, etc, or employment, somehow stop public researchers producing real competitive alternate research.

      30

  • #
    PeterS

    Perhaps it’s all starting to unravel. Time will tell. Personally, I’m convinced we are being told lots of lies by our governments, right, left and centre.

    ‘UK Government’ and ‘Corrupt Scientific Advisors’ Are to be Tried for ‘Crimes against Humanity’ and ‘Genocide’

    220

    • #
      John

      Snowball’s chance!

      The government acted on medical advice at the time to protect residents of the country. The government would be negligent if it didn’t do that.

      Some people seem to think that covid-19 should have been allowed to run through the community unchecked in order to see if the virus model was correct. These people would have had to accept responsibility for their actions and they could have of course been charged with manslaughter for every covid-related death.

      515

      • #
        John R Smith

        We are losing our collective minds.
        Are you certain that the virus has not already “run” through the community?
        Are you suggesting that government “accept” responsibility?
        Please hold your breath.
        (You’ll be safer from viral infection.)
        Will they accept responsibility for overaction and the destruction of lives that resulted?
        Charging governments with manslaughter?
        I’ll wait while government charges itself with crimes.
        Long list.

        110

        • #
          Gary Simpson

          Under Daniel Andrews’ workplace manslaughter act, wasn’t it made clear that the Crown or the government of the day was not exempt? Andrews himself said repeatedly that the buck stopped with him with regard to failures of procedure leading to hundreds of deaths in Victoria.
          He declared at every opportunity before the spellbound press that he absolutely took full responsibility and never shirked an inch from that. The only appropriate reward would appear to be one issued by ‘the academy’.

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            John R Smith

            From what I see workplace manslaughter act seems to target “organizations and self-employed persons”.
            Since July 1 2020.
            Am I missing something?
            Dumb American here with little understanding of the bottom half.
            Thanks.
            I think you are supporting my point?

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        Philip

        Totally agree John. Ignore the down votes. Healthy people never appreciate health until they get sick.

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        • #

          Agree Philip and John. SARS2 is a collection of likely bioweapon gains. China will not let it run free and they know better than anyone what this virus *may* contain.

          10

    • #

      Peter

      There is no truth in that link of yours

      https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-restrictions-idUSKBN28A1OP

      The guy self described himself as an anarcho missionary. He is a fantasist. there are many of those who have achieved far more traction than they warrant

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    Contemptible Blackguard

    Jo anors

    To an ignoramus like me, what does eating the little buggers mean to us, if they are riddled with this stuff?

    20

    • #

      You mean — does it matter if we eat Marek’s disease virus in Chickens?

      Likely nothing at all. Viruses are usually so specific that there is little crossover, so your body will chop up the little nucleic acids and use them as spare building blocks.

      I would prefer if we just got rid of such a nasty virus though.
      It must have some truly wicked genes, and in the wrong lab …

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    Adenovirus-platelet interaction in blood causes virus sequestration to the reticuloendothelial system of the liver

    Abstract

    Intravenous (i.v.) delivery of recombinant adenovirus serotype 5 (Ad5) vectors for gene therapy is hindered by safety and efficacy problems. We have discovered a new pathway involved in unspecific Ad5 sequestration and degradation. After i.v. administration, Ad5 rapidly binds to circulating platelets, which causes their activation/aggregation and subsequent entrapment in liver sinusoids. Virus-platelet aggregates are taken up by Kupffer cells and degraded. Ad sequestration in organs can be reduced by platelet depletion prior to vector injection. Identification of this new sequestration mechanism and construction of vectors that avoid it could improve levels of target cell transduction at lower vector doses.

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    Adenovirus-induced thrombocytopenia: the role of von Willebrand factor and P-selectin in mediating accelerated platelet clearance

    Thrombocytopenia has been consistently reported following the administration of adenoviral gene transfer vectors. The mechanism underlying this phenomenon is currently unknown. In this study, we have assessed the influence of von Willebrand Factor (VWF) and P-selectin on the clearance of platelets following adenovirus administration. In mice, thrombocytopenia occurs between 5 and 24 hours after adenovirus delivery. The virus activates platelets and induces platelet-leukocyte aggregate formation. There is an associated increase in platelet and leukocyte-derived microparticles. Adenovirus-induced endothelial cell activation was shown by VCAM-1 expression on virus-treated, cultured endothelial cells and by the release of ultra-large molecular weight multimers of VWF within 1 to 2 hours of virus administration with an accompanying elevation of endothelial microparticles. In contrast, VWF knockout (KO) mice did not show significant thrombocytopenia after adenovirus administration. We have also shown that adenovirus interferes with adhesion of platelets to a fibronectin-coated surface and flow cytometry revealed the presence of the Coxsackie adenovirus receptor on the platelet surface. We conclude that VWF and P-selectin are critically involved in a complex platelet-leukocyte-endothelial interplay, resulting in platelet activation and accelerated platelet clearance following adenovirus administration.

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    Peter Fitzroy

    Then block the transmission vector. And then wait. Of course that is way to sensible to be acceptable on this blog – here it is drugs, and then more drugs. That way capitalism thrives, eliminating the transmission vectors makes capitalists sad.

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    • #
      Mike Jonas

      “way [too] sensible to be acceptable on this blog – here it is drugs, and then more drugs. That way capitalism thrives, eliminating the transmission vectors makes capitalists sad.”. Huh? This blog is calling out the drug companies and profiteers. You have this blog backwards.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Peter, it was your beloved Big Government/ Nanny State that was responsible for effectively murdering millions of people (and continues to do so) by banning known cheap, effective antivirals administered according to appropriate published protocols.

      The only “capitalism” to blame is crony capitalism where Big Government and corrupt and incompetent politicians forge alliances with Big Business. And that is not the free market genuine capitalism most of us know and love and is even of benefit to people like you.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        blocking the vector works but you want people to spend money on the drug du jour.

        As to your fantasy free market capitalism, like perfect communism it has never been seen in the real

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          OriginalSteve

          Well if spending $3.00 on a dose of HCQ is rampant capitalism , then count me in.

          I’d rather be non-dead than red…..

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          Kalm Keith

          Way back, we used to watch the protectionist getting the next reel reddy on a second projector.
          If the countdown was good the interchange was almost seamless.

          In those days, the news, the cartoons, and main feature were all on reels.

          40

        • #
          Lucky

          The reality of free markets was seen in Hong Kong from 1945 when Cowperthwaite took over, and in West Germany from about 1947 due to Ludwig Eberhart, known as the Economic Miracle. Compare respectively with mainland China, and East Germany.

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  • #
    Earl

    “Some people keep unvaccinated backyard flocks, but those chickens don’t go on holidays, or to weddings or funerals and rarely meet other chickens.”

    But they do have their duck friends fly over and sometimes drop down for a shared feed. Just last September Victoria experienced “…the worst outbreak of avian influenza the state has ever seen…”.
    So much for the better health aspects of free range chicken farming.

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    • #
      Chris

      That’s true Earl, my free range girls were infected by ducks that walked the hundred and fifty meters up from the river every morning. I didn’t realise that these healthy looking bossy, cranky little visitors were asymptomatic carriers.

      10

  • #
    J Cuttance

    Yes! Yes! We “should be setting up bigger and better biotech labs”, for gain of function research like Fauci was doing in Wuhan before covid broke out in Wuhan.

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    Colin

    If I were a demented sociopath determined to control the whole world, how would I do it?
    First I’d spread a highly infectious but non-lethal virus world wide and promulgate a brain-washing program to panic and terrify the sheep. Not everyone would catch this plague but it would break down resistance, setting the stage for the next step.
    Next I would begin a multi-governments sponsored program of vaccination with huge societal pressure to ‘get the jab’. Soon almost everyone would be vaccinated.

    Poor fools, they don’t realise that the bioweapon in not the virus, it’s the vaccine.

    Haaahahaaa … (maniacal laughter).

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      PeterS

      Small correction; it’s not the vaccine but vaccines. They will be continually refined and applied to as many people as possible to achieve what those behind the curtain want to achieve; world domination and control.

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        OriginalSteve

        Thats basically correct. That appears to be the Elites plan.

        Covid is nothing much more than a huge scare campaign to frighten the previous reluctant sheep, up the chute into the slaughter house….

        Vaccines by and large medically are questionable IMHO, their primary purpose is social control/conformity.

        Try and get your kid into school without first handing them over to the States medical cartel to be “approved” by violating thier bodies with State mandated vaccines…..

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        • #
          sophocles

          I disagree. Just a few months before Covid came out of Wuhan, Samoa experienced a devastating measles epidemic. Because there had been no epidemic for many years, and because of some startling incompetence causing great mistrust, no one was ready for the epidemic (November 2019) when it started. Too many infants for anyone’s comfort had not been fully vaccinated, and the death toll was climbing.

          I think from memory, measles is highly contagious.

          See: https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2019/11/29/samoa-measles-epidemic.html

          There is nothing more brutal than learning from experience when children are involved.

          I will not accept an experimental medication as a vaccine. As far as endangerment is concerned, I am only endangering myself, nobody else.
          I am taking carefully considered steps to protect myself and minimize my risk, but that may not work forever.

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    • #
      Chris

      Are you sure it is not the passport?

      10

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘If I were a demented sociopath determined to control the whole world, how would I do it?’

      You are starting from a false premise, the lone wolf had no desire to control the whole world.

      Nevertheless your synopsis has some merit, all the woke people rushing in to get their jabs is a sight to behold.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        You’re correct it’s not a single lone wolf, rather it’s many globalists acting against humanity as one…..

        This is a religious war – it’s the demented Satanic globalists waging war on a humanity that just wants a quiet life……

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        • #
          PeterS

          Yes it’s a religious war but more importantly it’s also a spiritual war.

          00

        • #
          el gordo

          Covid is not a conspiracy, all this globalist stuff is nonsense.

          Next month Jo Biden is going to announce that UFO are real and extraterrestrial in origin, how does that fit into your spiritual war?

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          • #
            sophocles

            Government report next month.

            They are now UAPs – Unidentified Aerial Phenomena.

            Phenominal. 😀

            Even Tucker Carlson has sat up and paid attention.

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    The COVID Crisis in India: an Interview with Dr Dhananjay Bakhle

    Dr Dhananjay Bakhle, a physician treating COVID patients but also leading medical research for a pharmaceutical company, has agreed to respond to our questions regarding the recent crisis in India. In March, we published the article “The Mystery Behind India’s Success in Flattening the Curve,” which he co-authored. While infections and mortality remained low, per capita, in the first wave, the recent rapid increase in cases and mortality has taken the country by surprise. In this interview, Dr Bakhle helps us understanding what is going on, and why some states appear to fare much better than others. He also offers practical suggestions / recommendations. (Note: the interview was done in writing, through email exchanges on April 23-29; some edits were done for readability purposes).

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      RicDre

      This really struck me from the article:

      Today, most leading doctors in India are themselves not promoting the Ministry of Health guidelines that includes the use of hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin and inhaled budesonide (see below).

      Another change from the first wave is that people from the upper middle class and the elite have been more involved in this wave, while they had escaped the first wave when people from lower socio-economic strata were mostly involved.

      The people from the slums who got hit by the first wave were treated in the govt and municipal dispensaries, and got hydroxychloroquine and zinc regimen. This helped keeping the death rate very low.

      This time the upper class are being treated by the elite doctors in their private clinics/nursing homes who don’t use HCQ but use more expensive drugs like favipiravir and remdesivir. This has led to a huge demand and supply gap for remdesivir that did not occur in the first wave.

      These people also get admitted as inpatients much earlier than their lower socio-economic counterparts. The demand for hospital beds this time far exceeds availability in most urban areas of India.

      Also noteworthy is that, when remdesivir is used, HCQ is stopped even if it was given by a family physician.

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    Lance

    The Covid “family” mutates regularly.

    The “vaccines” are being provided under an FDA Emergency Use Authorization. EUAs may be granted only during a public health emergency and when there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives.
    FDA Authorization holds vaccine makers legally harmless for side effects. An EUA does NOT shield vaccine makers from side effect claims. That’s why the “patients” must sign that they are aware the vaccine is not an FDA approved Vaccine.

    1. Declare a Pandemic (public health emergency)
    2. Mount attacks on any available therapeutics (HCQ, Ivermectin, etc )
    3. Assemble “papers” showing available therapeutics do not work.
    4. Seek EUA after the minimum 2 month preliminary trials. Downplay any side effects.
    5. Using the “public health emergency”, mount a campaign to have state and local governments require businesses, Airlines, Universities, etc. “require masking, proof of vaccination” to conduct business.
    6. Sell lots of vaccines
    7. Avoid any legal responsibility for vaccine side effects because they are provided under an EUA.

    The “vaccines” do not confer lifetime immunity, they apply only to the virus variant they were modeled on. The therapeutic drugs are not variant specific, they simply tamp down the cytokine storm and allow the individual’s immune system to do its normal job.

    8. Begin requiring proof of “vaccination” to gain employment, education, travel, assembly, worship, shopping, or any other activity.
    9. Develop vaccine tracking ID / passport devices and begin legal framework for their requirement.

    Um. OK. Since when did WHO, UN, FDA, CDC, NHS, or anyone else decide what my liberties are and legally constrain my activities and livelihood with a fake vaccine that doesn’t provide immunity to a virus that mutates monthly? None of this is in my interest. I’m more impressed with the therapeutic drugs and not any of the vaccines.

    Does anyone see a problem here?

    Oh, and by the way, do listen to Professor Chen Ping explaining that China won the Trade War, the Science and Technology War, and especially the Biological War, in 2020. Seems mighty proud of it.

    https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/status/1394691764741627907

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    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      As per many Mayors around the States. Once a state of emergency has been declared, you’re liberties and freedoms are relinquished (until such time as the emergency is over).

      No idea if, or how this applies to Australia, but that’s how it is in the States. The UK authorities have taken this application to an extreme.

      And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the vaccine, or the name of the doctor, or the number of his vaccine passport.

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      • #
        Lance

        That’s my concern. Citizens have legal rights that have been suspended by un-elected bureaucrats who seem to change their story daily. How long does an emergency last? Suppression of therapeutics might have killed many thousands or millions in favor of a vaccine that does not confer long term immunity, but rather lessens late stage mortality for a disease that is 99.9% survivable if one is under 80 yrs and has no co-morbidities.

        The “cure” isn’t any better than the “disease” and the drugs that are broadly effective have been made illegal. And, the Wuhan Institute of Virology has some 100 additional coronaviruses that have unknown effects. There ought to be a worldwide ban on any type of viral experimentation that intentionally creates “gain of function” by splicing viruses into chimera frankenstein results.

        Politicians, bureaucrats, and money hungry drug companies are not the people to trust in this situation, in my opinion. Methinks the Govt has forgotten who they work for.

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    John

    They didn’t “forget” to tell us. As we’ve seen several times already, the public and the media are very ignorant and simply cannot understand even simple things about covid-19 and vaccinations.

    The government doesn’t want to risk the media misunderstanding something else about vaccinations and scaring even more people away.

    Why risk the media wildly exaggerating a very low risk as it did over blood clots? (Yes, there will be more cases than with other vaccines, but that’s because more people are getting a covid vaccine.)

    47

    • #
      PeterS

      When emotion is mixed in with propaganda we get a lot of ignorant people.

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    • #
      David A

      “The government doesn’t want to risk the media misunderstanding something else about vaccinations and scaring even more people away.”

      The government very likely does not understand the vaccine, nor the potential negative consequences of them. It is an area of science that is poorly understood, yet the potential harms are many and long term. When the ” government” suppresses known to be effective inexpensive treatments, then it may be charitable to say they don’t understand the potential harms.

      10

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    • #
    • #
      Lance

      SARS2 has a furin cleavage site at the S1/S2 junction that is not reasonably naturally occurring.

      “The spike protein has two sub-units with different roles. The first, called S1, recognizes the virus’s target, a protein called angiotensin converting enzyme-2 (or ACE2) which studs the surface of cells lining the human airways. The second, S2, helps the virus, once anchored to the cell, to fuse with the cell’s membrane. After the virus’s outer membrane has coalesced with that of the stricken cell, the viral genome is injected into the cell, hijacks its protein-making machinery and forces it to generate new viruses. But this invasion cannot begin until the S1 and S2 subunits have been cut apart. And there, right at the S1/S2 junction, is the furin cleavage site that ensures the spike protein will be cleaved in exactly the right place.”

      “Viruses have all kinds of clever tricks, so why does the furin cleavage site stand out? Because of all known SARS-related beta-coronaviruses, only SARS2 possesses a furin cleavage site. All the other viruses have their S2 unit cleaved at a different site and by a different mechanism.

      How then did SARS2 acquire its furin cleavage site? Either the site evolved naturally, or it was inserted by researchers at the S1/S2 junction in a gain-of-function experiment.”

      https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038

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    Mike Jonas

    Jo – Is there now enough evidence to work out whether vaccines are protecting people? In countries like the USA where a lot of vaccinations have been given, then surely the effect will show up in the coronavirus cases/deaths statistics?? Maybe state-based would give better stats?

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    • #
      RickWill

      The impact of the vaccine is clear in the UK.
      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
      The daily death rate is now averaging single digits. It was approaching 2000 per day at the beginning of the year.

      UK is beginning to ease restrictions.

      Israel is also showing a dramatic reduction in deaths since the beginning of the year:
      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/
      They had a rapid vaccination program. Israel now has over 80% of the population vaccinated and there are reports that they have now reached herd immunity.

      It appears the vaccines are effective but there are certainly some side effects. Both Modern and Pfizer have been associated with outbreaks of shingles – my son in the UK included!

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      • #
        MrGrimNasty

        So you can spot the difference in the death curve between wave 1 and 2 in the UK? No. It’s followed exactly the same natural epidemic curve you would expect both times, the first wave died out completely without a vaccination.

        The same problem arises when trying to assess the effectiveness of the lockdowns, both times it looked like the natural exponential growth had peaked and would have declined anyway.

        The government/experts have made some ludicrous claims to the contrary.

        Nearly all the deaths in care homes in the second wave in my county occurred in the period they were vaccinated – what would you make of that – a deadly vaccine? If you compare it to wave one and what was happening in the general population though, it seems very similar, just a coincidence – so inferring anything either way is a mugs game really, impossible.

        There have been test cases where a high vaccination rate in an isolated population has not prevented a new wave (although a rubbish Chinese vaccine may help explain it) e.g. highly vaccinated Seychelles per capita covid is (or was very recently) worse than India.

        The India situation has been highly misrepresented in the UK media too, as part of the psycological war from their ‘nudge’ unit. It was just the 2nd wave peak which now appears to have passed, with a few local resources temporarily overwhelmed. This media coverage was designed to justify more insults and pressure on the vaccine decliners, after the inevitable announced arrival of the India mutant, and then blaming decliners with ruining the return to normality and preventing the end of the mask wearing charade.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Please read this article.

    It discusses how India kept C-19 under control until they started injecting people with mRNA.

    It is true that India has had an appalling increase in cases and deaths off a very low base but guess who – or WHO – is to blame? India’s success at keeping per capita mortality at one-tenth the rate of the US was largely due to early treatment and prophylaxis of 30 million people with hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and ivermectin, mostly the poor and frontline workers, who gladly accepted the cheap generic drugs. By 6 February 2021, Covid deaths had fallen to 72 a day in a country of almost 1.4 billion people. But as India started vaccinating, Covid cases and deaths started to increase. Data from Public Health England shows that for the first two weeks after the first dose of vaccine, people are more likely to get Covid. This was exacerbated in India because of crowding in poorly ventilated vaccination centres.

    https://www.spectator.com.au/2021/05/waiting-it-out-behind-the-covid-curtain/

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  • #
    Hanrahan

    This bears a striking similarity with the genesis of Super Bugs such as strep resistant TB. This is why doctors insist you take the whole course of tablets, not to quit when you feel better and other wise heads to recommend that antibiotics be used more carefully anyway.

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    • #
      Broadie

      Exactly! Over prescribing of antibiotics or the use of vaccines for symptoms that could be treated by therapeutics is dangerous!!

      That is the lesson here. The chickens should not have been vaccinated without carefully assessing the vaccines first in laboratory trials.

      00

  • #
    David Maddison

    We live in interesting times…

    Traditionally the Left have been strongly opposed to Big Pharma while those on the rational side of politics have been neutral in their opinion.

    The Left generally purported to be favour of simple, cheap, often “natural” remedies for medical conditions.

    Now, the Left are True Believers in Big Pharma and their unhealthy alliance with Government and often corrupt and incompetent public serpents and politicians.

    It is those on the rational side of politics, the Right, that believe in freedom of choice and the right to use simple, cheap, proven antivirals like HCQ and Ivermectin under appropriate usage protocols. Or other drugs as may be offered such as mRNA infusions as offered for C-19 “immunity” according to personal preference.

    The Left, as usual, deny people the right of freedom of choice and are ruthlessly censoring alternate sources of information.

    The only freedom of choice Leftists think people should have is for children to decide which of the supposed 37 (or whatever) genders they want to be…

    Fools!

    Again, thank you for offering free speech on this platform Jo. This discussion cannot be had on the social(ist) media, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, lamestream newspaper blogs etc..

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    Lance

    “When the narrative starts to collapse, it happens fast. Global cases of COVID are rapidly declining.

    EXAMPLE: On May 11th India announced the distribution of Ivermectin as a treatment for COVID patients: “The state health minister of Goa, Vishwajit Rane, said Monday that people will be given 12 mg of Ivermectin for a period of five days as prophylaxis to protect against Covid-19.”

    THE RESULT: In the last week cases in India dropped 70 percent.”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2021/05/18/biden-administration-rushing-to-push-vaccines-to-other-nations-ahead-of-global-cases-of-covid-dropping/

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    Ross Holding

    Did you mention ivermectin? Keep saying it and pass the info onto others. Word of mouth is the only way to combat the misinformation.

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    David Maddison

    On the subject of Leftist censorship, Malcolm Roberts, a sitting member of the Australian Senate, has just had another post deleted by Facebook. I can’t give you the exact contents, because it was deleted/censored, but it was on the topic of C-19 and mRNA infusions.

    We will never be able to discuss whatever it was he said, pro or con.

    Leftists are terrified of alternate ideas.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      I just called Malcolm Roberts’office to find out what was censored.

      This is the “terrifying” interview (transcript) with Senator Roberts that was deleted on Facebook (and I’m told YouTube as well).

      A non-Leftist might find it difficult to understand why the Left are so terrified of ideas. All they have to do is state their own case as to why they disagree. But they can’t do that. Why?

      https://www.malcolmrobertsqld.com.au/make-ivermectin-available/

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      • #
        Ronin

        Ivermectin is cheap, it works and is most likely out of patent, just like R12 refrigerant, so a panic is induced to sell the ‘new’ patented ‘cure’.

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        • #
          David Maddison

          Just like Halon fire extinguishing agent. It is probably the most effective of all but Australia is one of the most stupid and woke countries of all and went along with the ban according to the Montreal Protocol along with Europe. It can be used for “critical applications” in Australia like aircraft applications but probably only because the US FAA mandates it and no Australian aircraft would be allowed to fly to the US without it. I expect a lot of people have probably died horrible deaths in fires because of the banning of this most effective extinguishant. It is still widely used in the US because of its high level of effectiveness and the safety conferred.

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      David Maddison

      Incidentally, unlike most politicians and public serpents, Senator Roberts is actually educated in something useful; engineering, mining and business.

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  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Well so much for chicken.
    I’ve eaten my last.
    The next question is about eggs.

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  • #
    Phillip Charles Sweeney

    India had COVID-19 under control using HCQ and Ivermectin.

    Then the mass vaccinations started which:

    (i) Created 100 million asymptomatic super-spreaders who could still be infected with the SARS-COV-2 virus and transmit to others while having few or no symptoms of COVID-19; and
    (ii) Created the environment for the new India strain to develop in the 100 million who have been ‘vaccinated’ with leaky vaccines.

    Much more research is required – Mass vaccinations should be halted until then

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      OriginalSteve

      Clearly the globalists need the panic to continue, so they can hit the ignorant population with their mRNA cocktails they have with a truly religious zeal pushed upon them.

      Can’t wait for the vaccine-crimes-against-humanity Nuremberg-like trials to start once things go south…..

      3rd world countries where life is cheap, could be a dangerous place for the vaccine pushers….

      20

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    John R Smith

    Ok, we are fully virus phobic now.
    The species rose to dominance without ever knowing they were there.
    (To bad we weren’t advanced enough to stop climate change 12,000 years ago.)
    Climate phobic.
    [email protected]$m phobic.
    Along with the other suffix abuse.
    We’re losing our minds.
    Really.
    (Only one person that I personally know, died with this virus. He was 88 with all the bypasses that could be passed.)
    As for me, I believe I’ll never make it anywhere near 88 as result of the stress caused by the lockdown destruction of my life’s work.

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    • #
      broadie

      As for me, I believe I’ll never make it anywhere near 88 as result of the stress caused by the lockdown destruction of my life’s work

      You are not alone John, I have watched young people destroyed by the constant barrage of fear & guilt from the education bureaucracy. I watched a young woman in tears at the thought of losing her successful business at the beginning of this idiocy. I have hugged and helped people who are lonely, isolated from their loved ones by the madness of these travel bans. Take comfort in that you have been spared believing you failed in business due a prolonged battle against competitors. Competitors who had access to cheap reliable power and an educated work force.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        That type of human damage has been hidden.

        Early on, I saw a great, troublesome number of shops/businesses closed, but no mention of the pain or suffering behind that. Just government yelling “job keeper” or whatever as they increased the national debt.

        Travel being stopped, even for interstate, has caused immense human suffering. Separation of family has been inhuman.

        How much of that was necessary? That’s the question.

        Did rising suicides show up in the “Data”?

        KK

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    ghl

    I have read that various vaccines vary in effectiveness from 65% to 95%. Surely a 65% vaccine is generating a 35% population who believe they are vaccinated and will go on to catch and spread the virus. Is this as dumb as it seems, to use a 65% when a 95% is possible?
    I have just visited the CDC website. All statements are conditional.

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    David Maddison

    Apart from the Left killing people directly or indirectly by banning of antivirals for C-19 treatment, they further kill people by the suppression of C-19 information by censorship.

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    dp

    Another look at the issue.

    No possibility the lay person is going to understand any of this or know whom to believe.
    https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-pseudoscience/doomsday-prophecy-dr-geert-vanden-bossche

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    • #

      Good find dp… maybe Jo has a response?

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    • #
      John R Smith

      “a Belgian virus expert has scared the Internet by claiming Covid-19 vaccines will doom Humanity”
      A typically hyperbolic misstatement of what the guys says.
      Which stands ’cause so few will ever even hear him.
      Read it anyway.
      Did see it say C19 vax mostly stops person to person transmission … call CNN.
      Hope the socially approved experts are right.
      They always have been.
      Especially on climate.
      Shouldn’t it be Huwomanity?

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        John R Smith

        “A typically hyperbolic misstatement of what the guy(s) or woman says.”
        That’s how I found my way to Judith Curry.
        Which led here.
        Now I get a glimpse behind a new curtain.
        Oh joy.

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    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    “It’s possible that our immune system may have some extra tricks we don’t know about.”
    In the meantime, another opportunity to check the lifeboats while we stagger into the path of the next perfect storm on the SS Leaky.

    40

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    Chris

    These are some very interesting graphs re deaths and vaccination.

    http://stateofthenation.co/?p=65597

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      That article is nonsense. It astounds and horrifies me how anti-vaxers brazenly lie, apparently with the goal of killing people.

      Unlike Australia, here in the United States we did not do a competent job of identifying and quarantining contagious Covid-19 patients, so the disease has killed over 600,000 of us. But, thankfully, the vaccination program has turned things around here. Here’s a pair of graphs, illustrating what it has done. (They’re a couple of months out of date, but since then the percentage of population vaccinated has continued to rise, and the daily numbers of Covid-19 new cases and deaths has continued to fall, albeit less sharply.)

      https://sealevel.info/worldometers_covid_us_daily_new_cases_vs_ourworldindata_vaccine_doses_administered_2021-03-05.png

      The “vax deaths” are disinformation.

      Every day, hundreds of Americans die within one week of getting a vaccine jab, simply because over 50,000 Americans die every week, of all causes, and nearly 1% of all Americans get a vaccine jab each day, and 1% of 50,000 is 500, which is the approximate number of expected COINCIDENTAL deaths EACH DAY from OTHER causes, within one week of getting vaccinated. Yet the anti-vaxers dishonestly call those “vaccine deaths.”

      So far, there have been three (3) known cases of Americans who appear to have died from unusual reactions to Covid-19 vaccinations, out of about 270 million jabs. Two of them were men, 52yo Dr. Gregory Michael, of Miami, Florida, and 60yo Tim Zook of Orange County, California. The third & most recent, 58yo Drene Keyes, of Gloucester, Virginia, was obese, diabetic, and hypertensive. Googling those names will confirm that these cases got intensive media coverage. It is not clear what caused their deaths, but in all three cases the circumstances suggest that it might have been unusual reactions to vaccination.

      Compare that number (3) to the number of Americans who have died from Covid-19 (600,000), and I hope it is obvious that vaccination is a big win.

      About 24 hours after I got my 2nd Moderna jab, I got a very sore foot. It hurt a lot, and it swelled up so badly that it was hard to get my shoe on.

      Do you think it was due to the vaccine?

      I don’t. I think it was due to the nail that I stepped on. But the anti-vaxers would presumably blame it on the vaccine.

      Even if Gregory Michael, Tim Zook, and Drene Keyes were killed by adverse reactions to vaccination, telling people to avoid vaccination because the vaccine has probably killed three people would be like telling people to not wear seatbelts because occasionally, in unusual car accidents, people are killed by their seatbelts. That’s true, it really does happen, once in a while, but your chances of surviving a car crash are far better if you are wearing a seatbelt than if you are not.

      So not wearing a seatbelt is foolish, like not getting vaccinated for Covid-19. Your chances of surviving the next year are significantly improved by wearing seatbelts and getting vaccinated.

      Additionally, unlike refusing to wearing a seatbelt, refusing vaccination also increases the risk to other people. People you come in contact with are much more likely to contract the disease from you if you are not vaccinated, and some of those people are unprotected through no fault of their own (e.g., newborns, and people on immunosuppressants due to organ transplants). That makes vaccine refusal not only foolish, but selfish.

      My estimate is that, between the vaccinations, and people who’ve acquired immunity by surviving the disease, about 50% of Americans now have antibodies against Covid-19. That’s why the numbers of daily new U.S. Covid cases and deaths are falling. The U.S. Covid-19 daily death rate is the lowest it’s been since early July, 2020.

      The great majority of Americans will eventually have antibodies for this disease. The question is how many of us will get them from the disease, which still has a fatality rate of approximately 1%, and which maims many of its survivors, and how many will get our antibodies from vaccines, which are at least 1000x safer.

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        Kalm Keith

        Dave, I’m certainly not an antivaxxer, but I resent politicised medicine and will tread warily.

        Could I recommend that you get some glasses, maybe that could help with the aggressive nail problem.

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        OriginalSteve

        Dave I spent 20 years to get to the point where I realised vaccines are basically a social control pseudo religious cult.

        I have an Engineering degree and recall one doctor saying to me privately he wouldn’t give his child the DTaP as he considered it too dangerous,

        You’re welcome to your opinion, but many people have done the hard slog research and have brains to call it all out as pure gold plated BS.

        Covid is a full blown psyop with basically zero medical risk and a 99% recovery rate akin to the normal flu.

        Go nuts on the vaccine if you want, but get your affairs in order first……

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        William Astley

        Hi David. I totally agree with the good part of your comment.

        We are adults on the same side. People should be informed of all serious side effects of the vaccines before being forced, highly encourage to take the vaccine. Talking scientifically about the pros/cons is the only way to make an informed decision. .. I agree with your comment (based on what is known now) for all Americans/Canadians/and so on.

        Covid is going to be a paradigm changer because it is going to unleash industry changing drugs/technology. The Medical Industry is corrupt, controlled, rigged, gamed. The Medical Industry has been hiding the dangerous side effects of all of their drugs and hiding cheaper safer alternatives and have been holding back technology to maximize profits.

        Prior to covid there has never been a vaccine with more than 70% effectiveness. The new mRNA vaccines are better than 90% effective against covid. That is going to/has obsoleted the old technology.

        The second issue is side effects. The mRNA vaccines technically can get zero deaths and reduced side effects because that technology has tight/absolute control of the molecule that will invoke the immune response. This makes it also easy/possible for precise adjustments to handle new strains. And the new mRNA manufacturing technology makes it possible to super mass produce the mRNA virus.

        Prior to covid people did not know about specific vaccine side effects. All else being equal, if there was a choice. People would choose a covid vaccine, that was no serious side effects, over a covid vaccine, that could let say… blind them or cause paralysis, or brain damage or death.

        I believe people should be informed of all known serious side effects before being forced/told to take the drug in question.

        Same subject covid treatment/prevention

        Ironically the medical industry has being holding back a simple technology which makes the drug Ivermectin …. Five times more effective against covid and ironically helps existing cancer drugs become three times more effective which oddly is going to reduce profits in the Medical industry.

        If covid had not happened, the Medical industry would have hidden the simple technology that makes Ivermectin, injectable and super biologically available.

        15 minutes after injection the hyper biologically available Ivermectin starts biological action with expected virus free patients in 24 hours because of the hyper biological difference in delivery of the drug.

        Oddly the change is simple, practical, and highly useful in Africa and other poor countries for covid treatment and the treatment of other diseases because it is so cheap and super effective.

        The company has an injectable form that makes an existing drug hyper effective at treating/stopping covid… using an injectable super effective (The delivery system makes ivermectin the drug five times more bio effective in the body) version of the drug Ivermectin.

        When Ivermectin is taken orally, it takes 6 hours before it starts to help the body kill and defeat covid.

        The injectable version of Ivermectin starts to act in 15 minutes. Based on in vitro tests it is expected patients could be covid virus free in 24 hours because the Ivermectin is hyper bio available/acting.

        And curiously the Ivermectin in its hyper active solvable form, will it is believed when injected into tumors, helps existing very effective cancer drugs by enabling the drug in question, to be used for a larger number percentage of cancer patients. With a possible increase cancer treatment use/applicability of the best cancer drug from 20% to 50%.

        https://www.globenewswire.com/en/news-release/2021/05/18/2231755/0/en/Mountain-Valley-MD-Receives-Successful-Results-From-BSL-4-COVID-19-Clearance-Trial-on-Three-Variants-Tested-With-Ivectosol.html

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    Ruairi

    Covid vax could be worse than a flu,
    Like a pestilence, pox or ague,
    The effects of the jabs,
    From those secretive labs,
    Long-term, no one has a clue.

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    Doc

    The first thing that comes to my mind of age-limited immunology education is, it doesn’t take a vaccine of limited function to hide away a virus. It has been known to happen for decades – as far as I’m aware – that the chickenpox virus hangs around unmolested in nerve cells for years after the initial infection has been apparently knocked over by the immune system. It reveals itself later as ‘shingles’ in a form that can be transmitted again by innocent hands gaining contact with the exudate.

    Just wondering.

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    Ronin

    What if the vaxes are a binary agent in a ‘trojan horse’.

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    The two main things which seems to accelerate generation of new mutations of this disease are:

    1. “Long Covid” cases, in which patients have the disease for much longer than the usual couple of weeks.

    2. Large numbers of cases.

    Both of those are proving to be greatly reduced by vaccination programs.

    Although, for practical reasons, the Phase 3 vaccine trials evaluated only effectiveness against symptomatic disease, it is nevertheless clear that (as reported March 30 in The Atlantic), the two mRNA vaccines also drastically reduce incidence of even asymptomatic transmissible disease:

    Yesterday, the CDC released real-life data showing that, just two weeks after even a single dose, the two mRNA vaccines were 80 percent effective in preventing infection. The effectiveness rose to 90 percent after the second, booster dose. People in the study were routinely tested regardless of whether they had symptoms, so we know that vaccines prevented not just symptomatic illness—the vaccine-efficacy rate reported in the trials—but any infection. People who are not infected by a virus cannot transmit it at all, and even people who have a breakthrough case despite vaccination have been shown to have lower viral loads compared with unvaccinated people, and so are likely much less contagious…

    That strongly suggests that the two mRNA vaccines reduce, rather than increase, the likelihood of new, more deadly strains developing and spreading. However, the vaccines are not all alike, and the same might not be true of the single-dose J&J vaccine. Unlike the two mRNA vaccines in use in the United States, the J&J vaccine is reported to prevent nearly all severe cases, but only about two-thirds of mild cases. So I think fears that it could allow or even accelerate the spread of more deadly strains cannot be as easily dismissed.

    (Aside: although the title of that article is “The Fourth Surge Is Upon Us,” since the article’s March 30 publication date the “surge” has fizzled out in the USA. Since March 30, daily Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. have fallen by 38%, and daily new reported Covid-19 cases in the U.S. have fallen by 52%. Since the January peak, daily Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. have declined 82%, and daily new cases are down by 88%. The UK has done even better. Unfortunately, the same is not true of most countries with low vaccination rates.)

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    Will Gray

    According to a study in Israel those vaccinated against covid-19 were 8 times more likely to contract a variant strain

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      David Maddison

      This is the study:

      Note, it is a preprint and not yet peer reviewed.

      https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.06.21254882v1

      Evidence for increased breakthrough rates of SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern in BNT162b2 mRNA vaccinated individuals

      Summary
      The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic has been raging for over a year, creating global detrimental impact. The BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine has demonstrated high protection levels, yet apprehension exists that several variants of concerns (VOCs) can surmount the immune defenses generated by the vaccines. Neutralization assays have revealed some reduction in neutralization of VOCs B.1.1.7 and B.1.351, but the relevance of these assays in real life remains unclear. Here, we performed a case-control study that examined whether BNT162b2 vaccinees with documented SARS-CoV-2 infection were more likely to become infected with B.1.1.7 or B.1.351 compared with unvaccinated individuals. Vaccinees infected at least a week after the second dose were disproportionally infected with B.1.351 (odds ratio of 8:1). Those infected between two weeks after the first dose and one week after the second dose, were disproportionally infected by B.1.1.7 (odds ratio of 26:10), suggesting reduced vaccine effectiveness against both VOCs under different dosage/timing conditions. Nevertheless, the B.1.351 incidence in Israel to-date remains low and vaccine effectiveness remains high against B.1.1.7, among those fully vaccinated. These results overall suggest that vaccine breakthrough infection is more frequent with both VOCs, yet a combination of mass-vaccination with two doses coupled with non-pharmaceutical interventions control and contain their spread.

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      Will Gray wrote, “According to a study in Israel those vaccinated against covid-19 were 8 times more likely to contract a variant strain”

      More likely than WHAT? Being struck by lightning?

      In heavily-vaccinated Israel, the (running seven-day average) number of daily new Covid-19 cases has fallen by 99.7% from its peak. Here’s a graph:

      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/#graph-cases-daily

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    Doc

    Peculiarly, as against expectations of most past vaccinations, aren’t the current COVID19 vaccines pushed on the understanding that people may remain subject to some extent, to reinfection (not quite sure if that is to current circulating strains or expected for at least some variants as well)but would be protected in the main against getting the more severe clinical expression of the virus. This feature is obviously forgotten by the general public who seem to think in terms of traditional vaccination outcomes.

    Is this the crux of the argument being played out here, that what seems an acknowledged, expected partial immunity as being served up by the current vaccines could be working along the same lines as overuse of antibiotics preselecting out resistant bacterial strains? Sorry I’m a bit dumb to the inferences being argued at the science level, but the practicality seems to be as implied above.

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    tom0mason

    Who here goes out of their way to find and consume GMO food?
    Why do may people who would not touch such products feel they must have the GMO manipulated injections — they are NOT vaccines, just GMO products for injection, as they do not necessarily confer any viral immunity or inhibiting of virus shedding on the recipient.

    Also contrast and compare the last 20 years of flu deaths (and the availability of flu vaccines) to the mortality rate of COVID.

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    UK-Weather Lass

    Leaky vaccines generate a half-baked immune response — one that stops illness, but allows transmission, so a vaccinated person can theoretically infect others. This is bad but not awful — as long as the virus gets eliminated in a timely fashion. But if the virus can cloak itself from the immune system, and hide in protected cells, then it can keep replicating for a long time, and eventually, randomly, it will escape the imperfect immune response. Those mutants will be resistant to the antibodies or t-cell tricks. Thus newer strains of Covid may arise that are already pre-loaded with goodies to get around our immune system.

    I do remember watching a video early in the epidemic in which the presenter (who wasn’t an epidemiologist) suggested this to be the very case and a reason why natural herd immunity gave the greatest protection to all. At the time, of course, the vaccines were months or years away if ever. In the current epidemic I am unsure that anyone knows who has been naively exposed to SARS-CoV-2 but had an immune system able to deal with it without infection taking place. If very high numbers of people have been exposed and remained uninfected then would they be susceptible to variants that specifically deal with the immunity conferred by any particular vaccine or does the body normally respond by adapting resistance after each attempt to infect? Do the vaccines do anything other than trigger an immune response from the recipient which may or may not have already taken place previously? Annual ‘flu vaccines have been around for qite a long time and they do not stop people dying from the complications of ordinary ‘flu infections although they do seem to influence added life expectancy for many who are routinely vaccinated.

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    Philip

    Point 4. Shut the borders.

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    Deano

    Thanks to Jo and all the informed commenters on this complex subject. It’s a minefield trying to decide what the best, safest course of action is with so many conflicting sources to judge. Easier to pick a winner in a horse race.

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    David Maddison

    https://thecovidblog.com/2021/05/16/india-turns-to-ivermectin-and-hydroxychloroquine-covid-cases-drop-significantly/

    India: COVID-19 cases plummet as the country turns to Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine

    May 16, 20216

    UPDATED May 17, 2021 – State of Tamil Nadu halts use of Ivermectin. Just like that, despite Ivermectin saving lives, The Hindu is reporting that the state health department removed Ivermectin from its case management protocols. This is murder with malice, no matter how you slice it.

    ….

    There are 292 studies (219 are peer-reviewed) proving the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as both a treatment and prophylaxis against COVID-19. Ivermectin has 93 studies (54 peer-reviewed) showing its effectiveness as treatment and prophylaxis against COVID-19. Despite the now-indisputable fact that these drugs essentially kill COVID-19 within hours or days, the Bill Gates-funded World Health Organization (WHO) and big pharma are having fits over India’s new guidelines and the results.

    WHO Chief Scientist Soumya Swaminathan tweeted on May 10 that her organization recommends against the use of Ivermectin for COVID-19. She deleted the tweet shortly thereafter. Swaminathan, who happens to be Indian, cited a February press release from Merck, the company that discovered and once owned the long-expired patents on Stromectol (aka Ivermectin). The company wrote that there is “no meaningful evidence” and “no scientific basis” for using Ivermectin to treat and prevent COVID-19. Merck is one of the top donors to the CDC Foundation, as is the now-merged Pfizer/GlaxoSmithKline corporation.

    …..

    See link for full article.

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    CHRIS

    Very true. COVID will continue to mutate for millenia to come…it will never be eradicated. Best solution is ‘do what you can’ , and hope that any future mutations will not be ELE.

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    Lucky

    Curious, that after scaring the public with virus horrors to get vaxxed, governments may be bringing in another danger. I am sufficiently skeptical of governments to think that the article is correct.

    So, the usual cry goes out- “Close The borders!”

    But Jo tells us-
    “So don’t mix vaccinated and unvaccinated chickens, right? I can’t see this working in humans”

    The story shows how this did not work for chickens.

    The next cry is-
    Vaccinate everybody, adults children and cats.
    Perhaps as a stop gap, but it is impossible anyway.

    What can be done? Jo’s number 1 is:
    Use antivirals to finish the job and kill off the dangerous mutations in vivo before they get out. We already have Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, Budesonide, Bromhexine, Zinc, and others.
    Jo does suggest keeping hard borders, I hope short term until number 1 gets full steam ahead.

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      el gordo

      Keeping the borders closed is obviously the best way forward for Australia and it won’t be short term. The education and tourism sectors will have to adjust to this new reality.

      In the coming year I see only walking wounded returning to this island fortress, beyond that it’ll mainly be the rich and fatuous who can afford the luxury of holidaying in a pristine environment.

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