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Crabs are just another victim of Wind turbines thanks to EMF pollution from undersea cables

Crabe dormeur (Cancer pagurus) communément appelé tourteau par les gastronomes. Jean-Pol

Edible crab like the one used in the study. Jean-Pol Grandmont  Wiki 

It’s a Nightmare on Crab Street

Crabs are being drawn to high electromagnetic (EMF) fields around undersea cables and getting trapped there for hours, “mesmerized”.

They are not just immobilized, in lab tests it screws up their blood chemistry and circadian rhythm too.

Nature-lovers might wonder what other marine life is also being impacted? What if the magnetic fields are playing havoc with migrating fish and turtles too? It might be handy to find that out before we build bigger taller towers offshore with bigger stronger cables.

Where is the Green outcry, or  the Save-the-crabs campaign? Perhaps some kinds of pollution are OK “for the greater good”?

These are not some esoteric rare crustaceans, by the way, but common dinner crabs — the ones food chains and fisheries depend on.

If these crabs were victims of coal plants the headlines would be a catastrophe.

Underwater power cables are ‘mesmerizing’ crabs around Scotland

In a new study, researchers found brown crabs ‘freeze’ when they come too close to the electromagnetic fields generated by these cables. This disturbing behavior may negatively affect the marine creature’s migration habits, among other things.

For their new study, researchers at Heriot-Watt University studied nearly 60 crabs at the St Abbs Marine Station in Scotland and found that the high level of electromagnetism coming from the subsea cables is affecting the blood cells of the crabs, which could make them more susceptible to bacterial infections. And that’s not all.

“This doesn’t sound like a problem”? The journalist feels they have to explain why this might not be so good to have mass unemployed crabs sitting around soaking in the milliGauss?

Alastair Lyndon, a researcher from Heriot-Watt University and one of the study’s authors, said that crabs are attracted to the electromagnetic field and just sit still when exposed to it. While this doesn’t sound like a problem, if crabs aren’t moving they aren’t looking for foraging for food or a mate. The researchers also found the magnetic fields are causing changes in the animals’ sugar metabolism.

Isn’t renewable energy supposed to “protect the environment”?

From IFL Science

“We found that exposure to higher levels of electromagnetic field strength changed the number of blood cells in the crabs’ bodies. This could have a range of consequences, like making them more susceptible to bacterial infection,” added Dr Kevin Scott of St Abbs Marine Station.

Surprisingly little research has been done on how underwater cables may be impacting marine life. In fact, most of the concern has surrounded how wildlife is prone to damaging the cables, not the other way around. Nevertheless, it’s clear that human activity is changing the natural electromagnetic environment and many marine creatures, from sharks to lobsters, are sensitive to electromagnetic fields.

From the paper, the lower strength fields of 250 µT didn’t appear to affect the crabs, but at 1000 µT the fields were blocking their circadian rhythm, causing hyperglycemia (raised blood sugar) and changing crab behaviour.  What are the options? Burying the cables, shielding them, or splitting them into multiple lower strength paths? Just add another major expense to the bat-and-bird-killing-towers that make unreliable energy.

This increased attraction to the source of the EMF, despite showing signs of physiological stress, has clear implications for C. pagurus in areas around MREDs. Many offshore sites have introduced no-take zones around turbine arrays, with speculation that the decrease in fishing pressure, combined with the addition of artificial reefs in the form of scour protection blocks, could enhance the overall crustacean population by providing refuge and breeding areas [27]. However, an attraction to subsea power cables emitting an EMF of >500 µT could come at the cost of time spent foraging for food, seeking mates, and potentially finding shelter, which is a cause for concern. Although the primary underlying mechanism responsible for the effects of EMF on living organisms is unclear changes in cell membrane permeability, gene and protein expression, and developmental changes such as cell growth and proliferation have all been documented during exposure to EMF [65–67].

REFERENCE

Scott et al (2021) Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields (EMF) from Submarine Power Cables Can Trigger Strength-Dependent Behavioural and Physiological Responses in Edible Crab, Cancer pagurus (L.)  Marine Science and Engineering. 2021, 9, 776. https://doi.org/
10.3390/jmse9070776

 

9.3 out of 10 based on 72 ratings

117 comments to Crabs are just another victim of Wind turbines thanks to EMF pollution from undersea cables

  • #
    clarence.t

    Infrasound pulses are the way large whales communicate.

    Off-shore wind turbines produce heaps of infrasound.

    Not to mention the albatross !

    But its all in a greenie cause… so it doesn’t matter.

    362

  • #
    ExWarmist

    Nuclear power plants don’t kill crabs.

    The crabs, like the bats, birds, and other wildlife murdered by windmills will be ignored by the green corporate machine.

    392

  • #
    MichaelinBrisbane

    One might have thought the crabs would be better off with the off-shore wind farms, with so many bird carcasses, falling from above, to feed on.
    This is an interesting twist in the arguments against ruinable energy.

    330

    • #
      clarence.t

      That’s the thing with offshore wind turbines.

      No evidence that needed cleaning up. !

      340

      • #
        fromdownunder

        Well journalists best explanation would have been the power generated is not reliable and intermittent, when the wind doesn’t blow there will be no generally power flowing through the lines, and thus no magnetism and the crabs can go back to do whatever they normally do. So no harm no foul.

        61

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Offshore CONcubines attract crabs.

      Makes sense really.

      110

  • #
    Contemptible+Blackguard

    Just got an e-mail from a mate in the UK. The world leaders are staying at Gleneagles Hotel and 20 Tesla’s have been bought for about 100,000 quid each to ferry the leaders back and forth. One problem though: there is apparently only one compatible charging station, so a Plant Hire company has been brought in with Diesel Generators to charge them up overnight. They have to be joking?

    680

    • #
      clarence.t

      Its as though they were deliberately trying to make a mockery of themselves.

      Surely, they can’t be that unaware of the cluelessness and hypocrisy behind the things they do. !

      400

      • #
        sophocles

        they can’t be that unaware of the cluelessness and hypocrisy behind the things they do. !

        Eh?

        What?

        But, but, but: They’re Saving The Planet™!

        20

    • #
      Peter

      It seems that World leaders’ electric cars could be powered up by vegetable oil-fed generators because of charger shortage.

      The fleet of some 240 Jaguar Land Rover vehicles including its I-PACE SUVs will be provided to ferry the 120 visiting heads of state and their entourages between their hotels and the SEC venue in Glasgow next month.

      180

      • #
        David Maddison

        Vegetable oil that came at the expense of food crops.

        How many Africans starved because food wasn’t grown for them because vegetable oil to recharge Leftist Elites’ electric cars was being grown instead?

        270

      • #
        Raving

        Used chip fry fat is a very Scottish solution

        91

        • #
          David Maddison

          People tried that in Australia to make biodiesel then the government started putting a fuel tax on it and put the operation out of business.

          130

          • #
            Dennis

            A member of a vegetable bulk buying cooperative told me that they are still producing bio-diesel for personal use and that using fresh vegetable oil saves time and improves the quality.

            10

      • #
        Old Goat

        Peter,
        Pointless virtue signalling at its finest. How many attendee’s are going to suffer from cognitave dissonance ? I betting you could play bovine excrement bingo all day….

        100

      • #
        Raving

        If it were London, they would be scraping the fatbergs out of the sewer system and rendering it into biodiesel

        60

      • #
        clarence.t

        Have you seen the buildings they are having it in.

        Talk about energy intensive in production !

        They should be holding it in woven reed tents. 😉

        120

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Or online, with the money they’ve “generated” over the years they should have state of the art video conferencing so no one has to travel and increase the terrible carbon footprint.

          110

      • #
        Gary S

        I suppose they all flew there in a chip fat fuelled aeroplane?

        50

    • #
      William

      I have stated here and elsewhere, that if COP26 has any integrity it must be completely powered by renewables that do not pump CO2 into the atmosphere and must not rely on coal or gas power if renewables fail. And using vegetable oil for generators is like Drax using wood pellets for electricity generation – a scam and a sophistry.

      230

  • #
    Contemptible+Blackguard

    If true!

    24

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    The other day when discussing what to have for dinner, Dad said, “Don’t bother waiting up for the prawn trawlers, your sister is coming home with the crabs.”

    I better warn her to to look out for fully charged crabs.

    160

  • #
    Contemptible+Blackguard

    It should be called the COP-OUT Conference. Our dingbat PM is a champion when it comes to Copping out

    150

  • #
    David Maddison

    People have to rid themselves of the delusion that green or Leftist types actually care for the environment (or indeed anything but their selfish selves).

    Back in the days BC (Before Covid) I used to do a lot of bushwalking (US = hiking) and I also used to participate in Clean Up Australia Days. Obviously such people appreciate nature and the environment. It was rare or never to ever see a person who might be classified as a green or Leftist. They simply don’t care or are too lazy to participate.

    I can make a a similar observation for charity work which I also participate in.

    Leftists and Greens are only interested in noisy virtue signaling, spending other people’s money (taxpayers’) on useless projects and also playing their part in destroying the economy and Western Civilisation in general.

    If grewbs/Leftists actually cares don’t you think they do things such as:

    -Help rid the world’s oceans of plastics by going to the source – Third World countries – and educating them to to throw their rubbish in rivers and help clean it up?

    -If anthropogenic CO2 was a genuine problem, support nuclear power.

    -Help and donate money to people suffering “energy poverty” where Leftist policies have made electricity and gas too expensive for poor people to afford.

    -Protest against environmentally destructive windmills, which are horrible visual pollution and kill bats, birds, insects, and cause harm to humans due to infraspund and shadow flicker.

    -Protest against ocean windmills, now known to cause harm to marine life.

    -Expression opposition to high urban population densities (which they support) but have a devastating effect on people and backyard nature.

    The list is endless.

    The only thing you can be sure about with Leftists is the staggering hypocrisy and the destruction they cause by their insane policies which they are usually successful in implementing.

    420

    • #
      truth

      You would also think …if their cause is so urgent…all of these ‘last decade before the tipping point’ etc pedlars…would be not just willing, but desperately anxious to engage with sceptics in order to convert a critical mass of the interfering recalcitrants ….IF they truly believed the planet was at stake.

      But no warmist …in the general population …on TV…no zealous warmist politician….no captain of industry …no crusading CAGW ‘journalist’….no banker or money-lender….no ‘expert’…is ever up for a discussion on proof…evidence…’the science’…the efficacy of wind and solar….the emissions from wind and solar…the ultimate scenario of the country and world they are ‘moulding’ with their Fabian hammer… nothing…in fact they’re dead trembling scared of engagement…on the most profound geopolitical upheaval humanity has ever faced.

      From the beginning… when consensus was declared before cloud research and most of the science was even under way….when Flannery was appointed Climate Commissioner or something and his job was to answer our questions to inform us, but instead he or someone announced that the science was ‘closed’…from way back…the only imperative of the fraudsters was to silence the questioners…to corrupt science itself…to ‘lose’ raw data…force our compliance…to veto our vote…kill our democracy….take our money….to set our country on a path to suicide…and sack any scientist who presents alternative and inconvenient findings..no matter how well-credentialed such scientists are….no matter how compelling their findings.

      From this terror they have of anything approaching objective facts or truth…like the bully screaming threats from behind his bodyguard of thugs…they only had one card left to play…the death card for a country that needs the investment and funds …denial of permission to play …or to even exist as a functioning nation….without complete capitulation to the new Fascist world order.

      210

    • #
      Sambar

      The federal member for Indi, allegedly independent but in reality green to the core, continues to prattle on about micro grids. Every community should have their own micro grid and all will be well, the world will be saved and green technology will triumph. This same MP publicly declared that the huge storm that caused the Dandenong ranges to be blacked out for about 2 weeks would not have been a problem if micro grids had been constructed. She failled to recognise that the problem in the Dandenongs was NOT a lack of electricity supply but damaged infrastructure. i.e. poles and wires were downed. Micro grids will have no impact on distributing power if the lines are down or damaged unless every home is a stand alone unit, ignore cost, environmental damage, etc the answer is always micro grids. ah well____________

      A little story for your amusement. I had the dubious pleasure of meeting this mp at a meet and greet a couple of years ago, we were out side and both she and her minder offered the full spiel, I was suitably impressed. We then both entered the same building albeit through different doors about 4 metres apart there was only 2 other people in this room, and, the minder steered the mp straight up to me, introduced both of them and I got exactly the same spiel that she had delivered to me not 30 seconds before, I was looking a bit bewildered, I was suitably unimpressed and two old codgers out side suffered incontinence issues laughing so hard.

      60

  • #
    Simon

    Wind farms can be built on land and it’s much cheaper too. NIMBY’s forced the construction offshore, do they care more about crabs or the view from the living room window?

    229

    • #
      Raving

      Carpet Scotland with windmills. Lovely

      80

      • #
        OldOzzie

        Actually they are carpeting Scotland with forest – in 1970 touring northern Scotland – loads of Moors, magnificent vistas – travelling in 2010 loads of forests, could have been traveling through NSW State Forests outside Oberon

        70

        • #
          PeterPetrum

          You need to go and have a look now OldOzzie. Still plenty of pine plantations but also a plethora of turbines in some of the loveliest lowland country. If you view Stirling Castle from the Carse of Stirling (the flat land to the south of the castle) it’s magnificence is subjugated by the massive wind farm on the hills behind. Sheer bastardy.

          50

    • #

      Let’s face it Simon at 300 w/sq.m there isn’t enough area in Scotland to provide future energy needs. The same problem faces India and China. At least they are more area efficient than solar panels.

      80

    • #
      clarence.t

      “Wind farms can be built on land….”

      Once you knock down all the trees and build access roads, totally destroying the natural animal habitat.

      Then dig massive holes for the thousands of tonnes of concrete and steel needed for the foundations, totally destroying any natural ground water level.

      Then we can ignore all the birds and other fauna affected by the constant infrasound drone when they actually decide to produce some erratic intermittent supply.

      But its all for the greenie cause.. so none of that matters. !

      50

    • #
      clarence.t

      “NIMBY’s forced the construction offshore”

      Waiting for the day the AGW stalwarts offer to have wind turbines in their back yard. 😉

      But we know they won’t.

      Please show us Obama’s or Di Caprio’s estate wind turbines.. they have room and can afford it.

      40

      • #
        clarence.t

        I wonder if Al Gore’s energy sucking mansion by the sea has a wind turbine?

        Or his massive Tennessee ranch?

        Or does he just by phantom “offsets”

        30

    • #
      Peter+Fitzroy

      Simon, this post is all about distraction. It makes (and never will) no comparison between the environmental damage caused by coal (and I don’t just mean CO2) or coal, or oil. But a few crabs, and we are supposed to clutch our pearls. This is idology truming science, but is it alway fun to read.

      330

      • #
        Raving

        And putting a windmill the size of a skyscraper offshore does nothing huh? No science there huh. Nothing to see. No microclimate over water. Keep moving along

        191

        • #
          Peter+Fitzroy

          Relative to what, Raving that is my point. By the way tall buildings kill more birds than all the wind turbines combined – but don’t let facts geting the way (should have realised that nominative determinism rules on this site)

          123

          • #
            Raving

            A raving scientist? Might seem to you to be bit of an oxymoron.

            Nevertheless, I understand enough of the computational models to appreciate that most of it is in the boundary layer and dynamics. Wind turbines have an outsize effect as to what goes on at the boundary. Over water there is not just nothing. now there are ultra sized spinning tree sized objects where there was nothing before. Not thinking about birds here. Rather evaporation and turbulence.

            Put a picket fences of huge windmills around the Uk and it will change the climate. I don”t know how

            The whole GHG law considers the vertical gradient of temperature but the fluid dynamics involves convection and in particular the horizontal movement and interchange across horizontal boundaries. That is a weakness to the GCMs. They don’t do boundary flow and transport across boundaries well.

            Thermal gradients might be vertictal but it is the horiontal blowing wind that makes things happen including convective transport. Feel free to believe that multiple pickets of mega windmills at sea won’t change things

            80

          • #
            clarence.t

            Show us a raptor killed by a building window. !

            Or don’t. !

            30

          • #
            Paul Miskelly

            Peter Fitzroy,
            Skyscrapers kill more birds than do wind farms? That’s a really old chestnut. You really are hilarious. And, you are into very deliberate distraction.
            Unlike the windies, the people who build skyscrapers are not claiming that they’ve “saving the planet”. Also it is well documented that the windies go to great lengths to conceal the real extent of the bird and bat kills.
            Got it?
            As for Simon, well he’s into pure nonsense again: it is the wind industry that chose to build off-shore. Nobody forced them. Seems he doesn’t remember the propaganda put out by the builders of the Horns Rev Wind Farm, (one of the first off-shore wind farms), for example, claiming, nay, absolutely demanding, that the wind is always better and more consistent at sea.
            I suggest that each of you has managed a “home goal” in quick succession.

            As I put up in a post earlier this week: what is becoming increasingly clear is that the embedded CO2 emissions built into the manufacture and fabrication of off-shore wind turbines far exceeds any offsets they might generate in their operational lifetimes.
            Wake up PF. You’ve nothing.
            Thanks, Jo, for this find.
            Cheers,
            Paul Miskelly

            50

          • #
            truth

            Peter+Fitzroy…

            Exactly when …time and duration…in the time frame in question..1850 to now….was there any CAGW trend that could only have been caused by CO2 from fossil fuels or methane….not by the natural oscillations and the natural warming as the earth emerges from the Little Ice Age?

            Would you want the earth to be cooling now..so the icing-up was under way towards a new ice age?

            Why do you apparently think it’s acceptable that your CAGW alarmist cohort declared a consensus…science closed…no alternative findings to be tolerated..no matter how well-credentialed the scientist…before the science of clouds …enormously relevant to climate…was even researched.

            Do you think it’s not important enough?

            Why do you think it was ethical and scientifically sound to declare that the earth was warming catastrophically at a time when the temperature of 70% of earth…ie oceans…could not even be reliably measured…the huge limitations of the methods widely known…and when the temperature of massive tracts of earth’s land mass hadn’t been measured anyway?

            Why do you think it was ethical and scientifically sound for warmists to declare CAGW due to CO2…when the massively important metric of the actual sensitivity of earth’s climate to a doubling of CO2 was not known…and still is hugely disputed.

            Why do you believe it’s ethical…safe and anything but the most vile of global authoritarianism….global Fascism on steroids… that unprecedented unimaginable changes are being forced on all of the nations of the world…but especially on the democracies….by the totalitarian LEFT and their ultimate enforcers …their jackbooted kleptocrat bankers and moneylenders…with zero proof and zero evidence for their premise…and a ton of evidence against it?

            If such a catastrophe was really at hand…and members of your cohort were actually so very certain of their facts…so certain their case was persuasive enough to warrant unparalleled world upheaval and the risk of military conflict…as has been suggested by some European zealots…to the extent that they would naturally want to get populations onside to mitigate and forestall…why would they and you….everyone on the CAGW side… be so terrified of discussion with those populations on the facts….to hear them out and tell them where you think they are wrong…since it’s supposed to be the existential issue of our times?

            10

      • #
        clarence.t

        “environmental damage caused by coal “

        Coal which provides for your very existence !

        Coal which provides CO2 to the atmosphere to support all life on Earth

        Is that the coal you mean ?

        30

      • #
        Dennis

        Try calculating the land area required to duplicate the generated output of Australia’s coal fired power stations, based on Capacity Factor of wind turbines and solar installations, plus back up equipment like generators and storage batteries and feeder transmission lines to connect to the grid.

        I have, and there is insufficient suitable land available by a very large shortfall.

        Therefore it must be concluded that the transition to renewable energy is mission impossible, and ignoring the grid destabilising from about 30 per cent so called renewables supply intermittently and unreliably.

        Consider Germany and other countries that have reached the crisis point.

        Net zero emissions is simply a ridiculous proposition.

        130

      • #
        Bill+In+Oz

        I Look forward to GREENPEACE
        Establishing a worldwide “Crab Protection League”
        Which will seek to ban these undersea cable !
        🙂

        20

  • #
    Maptram

    Makes life easier for the animals that prey on crabs, if they are not affected by the cables

    41

  • #
    Old Goat

    I wonder what the interconnecting power cables between the UK and europe and locally basslink are doing to the marine environment ? I would think those cables would carry enough power to stun let alone mesmerise…

    60

    • #
      David Maddison

      I think most modern undersea interconnecting cables are DC, including Basslink, but cables connecting windmills are AC. I believe the crabs are attracted to the AC, someone correct me if I’m wrong.

      80

  • #
    Tel

    There’s been undersea power cables for decades, had no one ever thought to check what the EMF is doing?

    What are the options? Burying the cables, shielding them, or splitting them into multiple lower strength paths? Just add another major expense to the bat-and-bird-killing-towers that make unreliable energy.

    Presuming this is a serious suggestion, I would say that high voltage DC is the answer … on the presumption that it’s the oscillation in the EMF that attracts the crab.

    The other answer of course is do nothing, and some crabs will die and the remainder will quickly adapt to the change of environment, like always has happened since the first primordial soup. Find a few cables that have been down there for 30 years and do the same tests around those cables you will very likely find the local wildlife aren’t bothered by it. You might also discover some species no longer exist in the region where the cable goes through.

    100

    • #
      Sambar

      “You might also discover some species no longer exist in the region where the cable goes through.”

      Oh Tel, please get with the new speak. This is now refered to as “locally extinct” this is then easily exptrapolated to being “locally extinct” everywhere, which then means that species are actually extinct. Can’t you see the implications.

      80

  • #
    David Maddison

    Offshore wind subsidy farms are generally connected by AC cables, not DC. DC cables would not generate the alternating field which presumably attracts the crabs but then DC might create another problem and upset the navigation of animals which use the earth’s magnetic field.

    The solution is just to get rid of the windmills altogether. It’s the only environmentally friendly thing to do.

    Coal, gas and nuclear power plants don’t harm the environment the way windmills do. They don’t kill birds, bats, insects, crabs and they don’t generate visual pollution, infrasound or shadow flicker.

    https://www.youris.com/energy/energy-grid/offshore-wind-farms-too-much-energy-is-lost-in-cables.kl

    But there is an important technical issue. Most of the existing offshore wind farms transmit their power to the mainland using high-voltage alternating current. The problem with this technology is that too much energy is lost in cables because wind turbines are located very far from the mainland. This obstacle could be overcome using HVDC (high-voltage direct current transmission) that has much lower losses.

    200

    • #
      William

      I am not a scientist, but as energy cannot be created nor destroyed, as the wind turbines take the energy from wind, that wind must be in someway diminished. This must affect local climatic conditions, and on a large wind factory scale, potentially affect a larger area. I would be interested to know the thoughts of any scientists on this.

      20

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Might explain the sudden downturn in wind turbine performance, although when it comes to climate science laws of nature do not apply .

        20

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        An interesting question.
        The force from the wind “accelerates” the turbine blades and is turned into two streams.

        1. D.C. Electricity is sent to the main grid where it is turned into a.c. @ 50 Hz

        10

  • #
    michael hammer

    I am slowly coming to a very interesting realisation. The outcome of all this global warming hysteria will be to initially go to renewable energy – wind and solar. As Britain and Europe is already realising, it does not work. Blackouts and intermittent supply, extremely high costs, short lifetime for both wind and solar systems resulting in massive replacement costs and waste management costs, degradation of the environment and damage to human health from infrasound. Once that happens society will be faced with a major problem having 2 solutions. First – go back to fossil fuels, second go on to nuclear. The outcome of this issue is already crystal clear and being made clearer day by day – we will go on to nuclear simply because its the ONLY way to survive long term. Mankind is simply outgrowing chemical energy and needs to find a more dense and sustainable source of energy. Its just the next evolutionary step.

    So, all this CAGW hysteria becomes simply a supremely expensive and traumatic way of moving on to what we should have embraced decades ago. Of course, one that happens the CAGW crowd (and political class) will claim complete vindication and see themselves as heros because a better outcome will have been achieved.

    Another way of looking at all this is that human society, just like evolution, is a system with a huge degree of negative feedback, simply because people basically want to survive so they will in the end always select a solution which makes that possible. A system dominated by massive negative feedback will always drive any transient, even a highly negative transient like CAGW, back towards stability. The only thing that is truly dangerous is a transient so devastating and fast that there is no time for the negative feedback to operate (eg: a nuclear world war). Evolution occurs as a response to stress. Maybe we should look at CAGW hysteria as a form of stress on society forcing evolution. Of course, evolution does not always use the most efficient process so the transition can be exceptionally painful in the short term. Just think how much less painful it would have been to embrace nuclear energy in the 1970’s. Who knows, we might by now have had commercially viable nuclear fusion.

    230

    • #
      truth

      Michael…

      I would think the sensible thing to do was ….and still is….what Australia was doing before the 2015 Coup….continue mitigating as much as possible while retaining our competitive edge and thereby remain a prosperous-enough country to do the research ….by using our cheap and reliable coal-fired electricity….and selling our coal.

      With all the billions saved in refusing to flush taxpayers’ money on subsidies and all the props and extras RE requires…we could have generously funded the very promising fusion research that’s progressing at UNSW…..under 90year old German-Australian Professor Heinrich Hora who was the founding head of the School of Physics there…and is research director at the HB11Energy research project still.

      https://www.power-technology.com/features/hb11-the-australian-start-up-pursuing-a-new-form-of-fusion/

      https://hb11.energy/our-story/

      Managing Director of the company at UNSW: ‘‘These reactors have the potential to be much smaller than current sites. We’re not creating heat to spin a turbine or a generator – the reactor itself generates the charge which we can then capture and turn into electricity. So that means the physical footprint of the plant would be a lot smaller, and with the added safety benefits we hopefully wouldn’t need all the safety infrastructure, which would also allow them to be placed closer to populations. These reactors would be widely distributed to take pressure off the grid, and even used as dedicated generators for remote towns, mining sites, ships or submarines.’

      If viable they would seem to be perfect for Australia.

      They were looking for government funding last year to expand their project….I wonder were they turned down by this silly government …as the homegrown COVAX19 research in Adelaide was.

      The offshore windfarms in Bass Strait could become a huge stranded ‘asset’.

      111

      • #
        michael hammer

        Truth; sure I largely agree although I do wonder a bit at what mitigation is actually needed. I don’t see any significant CO2 related degradation of our environment. Sure plants grow better with more CO2 but that hardly requires mitigation unless of course you are referring to weeding our gardens. Weather wise has anything really changed? I remember the 1960’s and nothing was really any different weather wise in those days.

        Non the less our energy requirements are ever rising and sooner or later fossil fuels will indeed become inadequate whether from scarcity or the air pollution they generate (look at the brown pall over many cities). So we will need to transition to nuclear some time but we could do it in a far more ordered not to say cheaper way without the current CAGW hysteria.

        71

        • #
          el+gordo

          There is disagreement on coal use, does the burning of fossil fuels warm the planet?

          ‘I remember the 1960’s and nothing was really any different weather wise in those days.’

          Almost exactly the same, its the effect of a cool PDO, but before we get into that here is Matt McGrath, BBC.

          ‘Carbon emissions are rebounding strongly and are rising across the world’s 20 richest nations, according to a new study.

          ‘The Climate Transparency Report says that CO2 will go up by 4% across the G20 group this year, having dropped 6% in 2020 due to the pandemic.

          ‘China, India, Argentina are set to exceed their 2019 emissions levels.

          ‘The authors say that the continued use of fossil fuels is undermining efforts to rein in temperatures.’

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          el+gordo

          ‘So we will need to transition to nuclear some time …’

          No we don’t, CO2 doesn’t cause global warming.

          Looking at this graph can you tell me why the ozone hole has opened up?

          https://i.ibb.co/qnhQkTj/ozone-hole-plot.png

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            Bruce

            That Ozone hole caper always intrigued me.

            I played with CFCs for a couple of decades, mostly in the electronics field where we used the stuff for cleaning circuit boards and switch contacts, etc. Not much experience with large refrigeration and air-con systems.

            It was interesting to watch the vapour coming off the liquid cleaner and how it rolled across the workbench, fell straight to the floor and then crept out under the door.

            Huge molecules and high specific gravity.

            Mechanism for such stuff to be hurled to stratospheric heights at extremely low temperatures?

            Furthermore it was quite obvious that the vast majority of the stuff was made and USED in the Northern Hemisphere. So how was it possible for significant (or any) amount of the stuff to rise to the upper atmosphere, cross the equator and concentrate over the Antarctic. Note: it was ALWAYS the Antarctic that was being affected.

            One other interesting thing about CFCs is their chemical stability.

            Civil and military airports around the world used to be equipped with Halon fire extinguishers
            Halon is SO stable, it does not break down at extremely high temperatures. Mosyt modern aircraft are made from alloys based on Aluminium. there is also a LOY of Magnesium in use, alongside Titanium and later on fibre-reinforced polymers..

            Aviation humour:

            Q. What is the difference between a “crash” and a “heavy landing”?

            A. Nobody dies in a heavy landing.

            It is good practice to have the same number of take-offs and landings. Even better if the aircraft can be re-used after each landing.

            Aircraft arriving on the ground in an untidy manner have a nasty habit of bursting into flames. The heat of a fire fueled by Jet-A and many tonnes of cabin lining plastics and so on, is quite capable of causing the metals from which the airframe is constructed, to start burning. This is quite hard to extinguish. Those of us who date back to the good old days of high-school science will be familiar with burning magnesium ribbon. The party trick was to get it burning in normal air, then lower it into a jar full of CO2. The magnesium would BURN in a pure CO2 atmosphere. Thus is is with burning aircraft. It gets better. The heat of combustion exceeds the capability of extinguishing it by water or water-based foams. It is also bad practice to pimp water into a fire that is sitting on top of a lake of flammable hydrocarbons; the Jet-A that has leaked from the ruptured fuel tanks and lines.

            So H2O and CO2 are not preferred. Powders? They do not “project” like water and are easily disrupted by wind and thermal air currents.

            Halon, however does not break down at temperatures generated by Aluminium / Magnesium fires. It is denser than water but can be projected like other fire-suppressant liquids.It is generally a LOT less toxic than any other stuff spewing out of a burning aircraft, and becoming runoff into waterways.

            So, on the basis of EXTREMELY dodgy “science”, it was banned for civil aviation use. In the unlikely event we peasants are ever ALLOWED to fly when and where we please, try to avoid rapid, uncontrolled re-connection with the ground. The impact might not get you but the fire probably will.

            Cheers!.

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                Bruce

                Not so fast!

                What does Antarctica have that seems to be absent in the high Arctic? (apart from a continental substrate).

                ACTIVE VOLCANOES!

                Air New Zealand is VERY familiar with one of the bigger ones.

                What do active volcanoes emit, apart from a lot of lava and “ash”?

                Furthermore, does the South Magnetic pole wander about like the Northern one or does its “field strength” vary over time?

                Just for giggles, WHEN the poles next “flip”, all of the preceding will be purely academic for what will be left of life on the planet. It could be next year, nest century of next Aeon, but such an event will be immortalized in the geological record that grinds on relentlessly. This “flip” does not happen overnight, but appears to take months or years to occur. Thus, the “shields” will be down for most of that time; consequently every square millimetre of the planet’s surface will at some time get a full-strength dose of “Solar cooking”.

                If you are unfamiliar with the concept of “wandering Poles’, check out any REAL survey / ordnance map. Somewhere in th e”marginal information” will ne a diagram and data indicating the differences between True, Magnetic and “Grid” North. It will also state by how much Magnetic North moves in a given time frame. This is the local “Magnetic Deviation”. It varies a LOT from place to place around the globe. Mil-Spec Ordnance maps are VERY informative. One nifty feature is that the batteries don’t go flat and they do not rely on satellites that may be turned off, blown out of the sky or re-encoded to bewilder you.

                If you live on a featureless plain or desert, a theodolite and sun-compass (and charts) are your best friends. More nautically inclined folks need to own and know how to use a sextant.

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              Graeme No.3

              Interesting question:
              How was it that maximum ozone depletion occurred at the wrong pole? Also why were CFCs affecting the Antarctic ozone as early as 1957? (It didn’t get noticed until much later when records were examined. From memory from equipment designed by James Lovelock). The limited release into the atmosphere prior to then seems to have had a disproportionate effect. It was mainly used for refrigerators and these were sealed systems.

              As for magnesium burning in CO2 it is similar to Lithium and Li battery fires are well known to be hard to deal with. I assume the magnesium extracted the oxygen and left carbon behind. Don’t tell The Greenies or they will demand enormous quantities of magnesium to use in reducing CO2.

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              Kalm Keith

              I’ve heard that pilots are forbidden two things covered by the two rules on smoking and drinking.

              1. No alcohol is to be consumed within 30 metres of an aircraft.

              2. Pilots must not smoke in the 24hours prior to take off.

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          truth

          I agree Michael…on the mitigation question…but we could probably do it where it does no harm and helps us to keep Europe and the bankers and moneylenders off our backs.

          I wonder why we hear nothing…since the first announcements last year I think…about the research breakthrough at RMIT whereby they can convert CO2 to solid carbon at room temperature ….making it massively cheaper than any other CCS or CCC process presumably.

          Could the radio silence be because it might facilitate the retention of coal-fired power stations…and that puts a spanner in the works of the real agenda which of course is nothing to do with the environment?

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            michael hammer

            To all the comments above. I agree that rising CO2 is NOT a problem. What I know of spectroscopy suggests that rising CO2 does cause some incremental retention of energy to the tune of maybe 1C ( 3 watts/sqM) per doubling (ie: 1C by the time we get to 560 ppm) but that’s before feedbacks and the feedbacks are almost certainly negative not positive. Thus with feedbacks the rise is well under 1C per doubling. Big deal, I can get a 5C climatic shift by driving 8km down the road. At the same time rising CO2 has been shown by NASA to green the Earth and I don’t know about you but a greener planet with more verdant vegetation appeals to me quite a bit. Also, my analysis suggests that while GHG’s do increase temperatures a bit (no not the 33C warmists claim but more like 9C) they act to dramatically moderate temperature extremes reducing highs and increasing lows. Without them I believe I can show that our climate would be more like that of the moon, well over 100C at noon while far far far below zero at night. So I dont think there is anything to mitigate right now.

            However, I have seen the brown pall over cities from the air, and I do know that sooner or later we will start to run out of fossil fuels (OK not for 100+ years but eventually) so why not in a calm orderly measured fashion start the transition to a cleaner more sustainable, cheaper source of energy. We dont actually have to use up all the fossil fuels before moving to something cleaner safer and better. If that source has a down side, dont abandon it but instead find solutions to that downside. Thorium supposedly generates less waste which is radioactive for less time. Also it apparently can’t cause meltdowns nor can it be used to provide material for nuclear weapons Sounds like a really good first step to me. Of course hydrogen/duterium fusion is probably better but don’t let better rule out good.

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    Serge Wright

    Like all casualties of left wing ideology, these crabs will join a long list of creatures that are forced to die for the Marxist cause. Perhaps that can be classed as part of the move to Net Zero, with Net Zero crabs as well as bats and birds. But, some good news for crabs to the north of Australia, with the Sun cable customer in Singapore going into liquidation before the project has even started. Ironically, the collapse of this company was caused by the “Net Zero created” global energy crisis. In other words, projects such as this one are killing off similar projects before they even start. ie: Net Zero energy

    https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/sun-cable-customer-collapses-as-energy-crisis-widens-to-singapore-20211015-p5908g

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    PeterS

    No wonder those who believe in the CAGW BS are feeling a sense of dread more and more. They will see such news about the crabs being impacted not by the wind turbines but by “climate change”. It’s how their brains are “wired”. As soon as they see such news they immediately blame it on man-made climate change regardless of the evidence presented. See my point? No matter how hard we try to expose the myth, it works the other way to strengthen the belief that CAGW is real in spite of the real evidence. There will come a point though when other factors come into play to wake them up but by then a lot more damage will have been done to our economy and society.

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    Curious George

    Overhead power lines kill you.
    Undersea power lines kill crabs.

    I just love science 🙂

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    Vicki

    OK, to demonstrate how we are entering the “Great Reset” , husband was researching “how does hydrogen fuel source work” – took him to energy.gov, which in turn led him to link to “Hydrogen Fuel Basics” which in turn led to “Thermal Processes”.

    Under “Thermal Processes – were links to Natural Gas reforming, Coal Gasification, Biomass gasification & Reforming of Renewable Liquid Fuels.

    All of these were able to be accessed EXCEPT – Coal Gasification – this only received link YOU ARE NOT AUTHORISED TO ACCESS THIS PAGE.

    I take it this is an American website.

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      PeterS

      Just make sure husband doesn’t fall into the trap that is snaring more and more people; a feeling of dread about climate change to the point of committing suicide. It’s on the rise especially among the young.

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    David Maddison

    Just a reminder about some of the environmental issues of wind subsidy farms.

    Great video, make a note of it as YouTube is making it hard to find.

    https://youtu.be/zr3z_7iQ35s

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      Vicki

      Also something brought to my attention recently – the issue of what to do with these turbines when they are obsolete.

      Farmers who are initially attracted to the financial benefits find, years later when the things are de-commissioned, that they are prohibitively expensive to remove.

      Farmers who then want to sell their farms when retirement looms, find they are an unexpected liability and may detract from the value of the property in the order of millions of dollars for a substantial grazing property.

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        David Maddison

        Even when a contract specifies the eventual removal of these monstrosities to be paid for by the wind subsidy farmer, it usually doesn’t include the enormous concrete foundation which can interfere with ground water movement, prevent building future structures in that location, and other issues.

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        truth

        I wonder the same about homes with solar roof panels that are close to replacement time…prospective buyers knowing they’re up for a huge replacement bill or a bill for the dismantling and disposal of them.

        Of course it’s possible that the taxpayer will be required to kick in again…and again.

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    Ross

    Who was that dodgy Scandinavian researcher at JCU? This sounds like the sort of research she did.

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    TdeF

    There is an implicit argument in modern activist ecology that you should do nothing which means species have to adapt. The world should be just the way it was forver. Which would wipe out most agriculture. And Europe would be covered in Forest. It’s a primitive fear of change of any sort, as if the world is perfect on the day you are born and nothing is to be changed.

    Crabs for example. There is a change in the environment and some adapt and some don’t. Darwinian selection sorts that out very quickly. The anti change argument is used against coal and gas and nuclear and even dams but it is not allowed to be used against Green ideas like tidal energy, hot rocks, Windmills and clearing virgin desert for thousands of acres for solar panels. That’s all in a good cause, stopping change.

    And the evolution of trees from primitive plants to the modern broadleaf varieties have been affected by ice ages, methods of transmission and often by man’s actions in introducing fire, as with Australia. And the development of deciduous trees to cope with the sudden cooling of the planet, the creation of the disposable leaf.

    Now evolution is to be stopped. CO2 change is to be stopped. Nuclear energy is to be stopped. And the discovery of coal and fractioning of oil is to be buried, because people do not want change. Even the evolution of the human race is to be stopped.

    There is nothing wrong. Things change. The 1970s concept of ‘industrial pollution’ is now a fight against all change and the classification of Carbon Dioxide which is the one essential gas to all life on the planet as industrial pollution is insane.

    The crabs will adapt. Even Dr. Bob Brown in his Northern Tasmanian retirement has come out against windmills in the wilderness as pollution. But he wants them in everyone else’s backyard.

    Climate Change must be stopped now no matter what it costs and how many windmills.
    That’s the voice of the utterly indulged and selfish.

    And no Greenie cares about crabs because they are not cute. So windmills win. Cuteness is the ultimate yardstick by which species lives and die in a perfect Greenie world.

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    OldOzzie

    Flooding In West China Destroys Agricultural Production

    Continuous rainfall for more than ten days has caused the lower reaches of the Luo River in China’s west to spill their banks. Large volumes of floodwater released from upstream have destroyed two dams in one county, and villages are flooded. Local jujube growers and those in animal husbandry have suffered serious losses.

    The autumn harvest is at a severe loss in Dali County of Weinan city, Shaanxi Province, where 108 villages have been affected by floods.

    According to local media reports, Dali County has experienced heavy rains this fall. Water levels in the Wei River and Luo River running across the province have exceeded their warning levels, with some areas experiencing serious floods.

    In Dali’s Zhaodu town, about 29,000 acres of farmland were flooded, and 25,126 people had to be urgently evacuated.

    As to the reason for the flooding, some locals have voiced suspicion that it’s caused by the local authorities intentional release of floodwaters to protect other areas.

    Xin Ming (alias), a villager in Xinsi village, Zhaodu town, told the Chinese-language Epoch Times that he believes that in order to protect Gansu Province and Henan Province, the authorities quickly released a large volume of water into the Dali area, bursting local river banks.

    After the flooding disaster, non-government relief materials were sent to the area in batches. But after the local government took over control of the distribution of aid, no aid has been reaching villagers outside the big towns.

    The weather has been getting cold, Xin said. “We are short of quilts, cotton-padded clothes, and daily necessities, and the villagers do not even have enough shirts and pants.”

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      el+gordo

      Beijing is blaming climate change.

      ‘The National Meteorological Center warned of geological disasters as soil has been full of water which reduced its capability to withstand floods, especially in Gansu, Shanxi and Shaanxi provinces where the Yellow River runs through.

      ‘An outline released by the central government on Oct 8, said that floods caused by climate change and extreme weather still pose threats to nearly 1 million people in the basin’s downstream areas despite improvement in the river’s environment.’ (China Daily)

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    clarence.t

    OT….. G20 coal usage rose 4% in 2021.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/10/15/climate-action-g20-coal-use-rose-4-in-2021/

    Fun reading the comments about COP26 (no Covid mandates needed for the conference, of course) 😉

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    Ronin

    Pity we couldn’t get the greenies to nest beside the HV cables.

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    Neville

    The terrible floods death toll in China in 1931 could’ve been as high as millions according to the latest surveys or perhaps as low as 400 K + deaths. Who knows, here’s the Wiki link.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1931_China_floods

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    David Maddison

    Another problem of offshore wind subsidy farms is that they are a maritime navigation hazard, and are also tall enough to be an aviation hazard.

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    Have you heard anything about those offshore wind plants here in Australia then?

    Umm, wait a minute, there aren’t any.

    Hmm! I wonder why.

    Could be that not only do they have to construct the actual offshore wind plant. They also have to construct the Power Transmission Infrastructure to get all that lovely generated power back to the shore, and then then the onshore transmission infrastructure to connect it to the grid.

    Makes you wonder now why there are so many of those wind plants concentrated in that area of South Eastern South Australia, and Central Western Victoria, in fact, 61% of the total Nameplate for every wind PLANT in the Country in that area. (5142MW of 8587MW)

    Having now been doing this for almost 14 years, I have watched as the ‘blurb’ for each new wind plant has come out, prior to the plant even starting construction. In almost every case, one of the major points factored in was the closeness to existing transmission Infrastructure.

    What that most effectively means is that the cost of the plant does not have to have the added cost of that major transmission infrastructure.

    What has happened in recent times is that the construction of wind plants in that same area has slowed almost to a complete stop. That transmission infrastructure is now almost at its limit for power transmission, and any new plants now have to have that added cost factored in, eg, the construction of NEW transmission infrastructure.

    The big selling point was that this area was in a great wind corridor, and now, having more than 1100 daily data collection Posts on wind generation here in Australia, it is plainly obvious (well, to me anyway, having done and documented this exact research) that the wind corridor ‘meme’ is just that, a meme, because it is plainly wrong, as those huge High Pressure weather systems hover over this exact same area, and wind generation drops ….. EVERY time. (110 times over 800 days from mid 2018, so almost once a week in fact)

    Also evident in EVERY one of those original ‘blurbs’ prior to construction was the exclusive use of the Capacity Factor of 38%, based on modeling from the past, and in fact, after those three years the CF is only 30%.

    Speaking also of offshore wind, one of the first I found back in 2008 was Cape Wind off Nantucket Sound at Cape Cod in Massachusetts. It was first proposed before the turn of the Century, (in 1997/8) and was finally abandoned in 2017, still not even begun to be constructed. It seems ‘Nimbyism’ is even more pronounced with the rich. Oh, and you know that other meme about wind power (renewables in general) getting cheaper as years go on. Well Cape Wind started out at $650 Million, and just prior to folding, the cost had become $2.2 Billion.

    Offshore wind, another floperoonie for ‘working’ power generation, in much the same manner as Onshore Wind. Look at the skyline of CBDs of large capital cities. Wind towers are the same height as the tallest buildings you can see, and offshore towers are even taller again.

    Each little niche problem (like this one with the crabs) they find will be explained away by friends of the dirt green supporters. What they can’t explain away is that wind power just does not do what it’s supposed to do, deliver power on any scale. The reason that they can’t explain that away is that they are too clueless to even know what that actually means.

    Tony.

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      David Maddison

      We posted at exactly the same time Tony.

      I mentioned the Nantucket/ Martha’s Vineyard wind subsidy farm in my post.

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      Lance

      Here’s a thought:

      What if all of that lovely wind energy was simply a ploy to obtain subsidies at the expense of the citizens.

      It’s a money machine, not a power machine.

      That explains the lot of it. Or, I’m mistaken.

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        David Maddison

        Of course. In the US Warren Buffet clearly stated:

        “We get a tax credit if we build a lot of wind farms. That’s the only reason to build them. They don’t make sense without the tax credit.”

        In Australia there is no tax subsidy as in the US (as far as I know), the subsidy comes from the extra charges the consumer pays for random electricity compared with the much lower cost from proper power stations.

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      Raving

      Niclear power isn’t cheap, nor quick. It works

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        ivan

        The only reason it is expensive is the amount of stupid regulations that were derived from the time of the nuclear cold war and the idea that ALL radiation is bad – forgetting that we are being continually bombarded with radiation from the sun and cosmos.

        If they revised those regulations and removed such things as emergency cutouts piggy backed on emergency coutouts (which makes them more not less reliable the cost of a nuclear plant would be halved as well as the building time.

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      Ronin

      “It seems ‘Nimbyism’ is even more pronounced with the rich.”

      Also don’t forget Bob Down err I mean Brown.

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        Hanrahan

        Years ago I read that the French did not suffer NIMBYism, that they welcomed the reactors’ jobs for their children.

        I did a quick search and this is a para from a long piece “Why the French like nuclear energy”.

        “In France, unlike in America, nuclear energy is accepted, even popular. Everybody I spoke to in Civaux loves the fact their region was chosen. The nuclear plant has brought jobs and prosperity to the area. Nobody I spoke to, nobody, expressed any fear. From the village school teacher, Rene Barc, to the patron of the Cafe de Sport bar, Valerie Turbeau, any traces of doubt they might have had have faded as they have come to know plant workers, visited the reactor site and thought about the benefits of being part of France’s nuclear energy effort.

        https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/readings/french.html

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    David Maddison

    Ha ha ha!

    Leftist Elites who live at Martha’s Vineyard where Obama lives are complaining about an offshore wind subsidy farm to be built there.

    https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2021/08/26/environmental-group-sues-block-vineyard-wind-project

    Nantucket Group Sues to Block Vineyard Wind ProjectJane Seagrave

    Thursday, August 26, 2021 – 6:59am

    A group of Nantucket residents filed a lawsuit Wednesday against the U.S. Bureau of Ocean Management and others, claiming federal officials did not adequately consider the adverse effects on the North Atlantic Right whale and other marine life when they approved the Vineyard Wind project.

    In a 36-page complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Boston, a group calling itself ACK RATS (Nantucket Residents Against Turbines) and co-founder Vallorie Oliver asks the court to compel the BOEM, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Marine Fisheries service to redo their environmental analyses of the project.

    After extensive review, BOEM issued a Record of Decision for Vineyard Wind 1 in May, clearing the way for construction to begin on the nation’s first industrial-scale offshore wind farm. The initial project calls for the installation of 62 turbines about 15 miles south of Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket, but additional wind farms are already being planned.

    In announcing the decision, federal officials hailed the project as a victory for both clean energy and economic development. Vineyard Wind 1 is expected to generated 800 megawatts of electricity annually, providing power to more than 400,000 homes.

    “We can fight the climate crisis, while creating high-paying jobs and strengthening our competitiveness at home and abroad,” said Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo at the time.

    But the project has come also under criticism from fishermen, environmentalists and others, concerned about its potential effects on navigation, birds and marine life.

    SEE LINK FOR REST

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      David,

      these are two different projects, and the original I mentioned, Cape Wind has now been abandoned.

      I first wrote about it in my First Series at my home site, and that was back in May of 20008, and how the project received backlash from ‘the powerful’, who lived in that area. It seems powerful people have more clout than ordinary people when it comes to something like this.

      Link to that original Post.

      Kyoto – A Perspective (part 29)

      This was in the days when I had only recently found out that wind generation was such a poor performer when it came to power generation, as you’ll notice with the heading, this being the fourth separate Post on Wind Power in that 53 Part series, lasting four Months.

      Tony.

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      clarence.t

      Heck, you could easily fit 2 or 3 decent sized wind turbines on the Obama estate. ! 😉

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      Bruce

      Nantucket?

      Nantucket of limerick fame?

      Eco-loons, corporate grifters, media mavens?

      This could be fun!

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    Ronin

    Back in the 50’s and 60’s, Brisbane used to have electric buses, clean and silent, then they were phased out, then we got CNG buses, but after a few mishaps they were phased out for diesel buses, why wouldn’t now be a good time to reintroduce electric buses, just a matter of stringing some power lines, how are we going to use hydrogen when we can’t even keep CNG buses on the road.

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    Dennis

    Defence, just build offshore wind turbines and attach submarine nets between the pylons, simple.

    sarc

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    KP

    EMFs affect humans too, where do you think all the diseases since the 1700s have come from?? We never used to be this sick. Read “The Invisible Rainbow” by Arthur Firstenberg for descriptions of the new problems electricity and all our wireless bought to us. Its available online for free, or buy it as a book.

    Every day I see people stunned motionless by the electric field from the phone they are holding up to their head.

    “The other answer of course is do nothing, and some crabs will die and the remainder will quickly adapt to the change of environment, like always has happened since the first primordial soup.”
    If only kangaroos would learn that about cars! Certainly hasn’t happened yet, even though we kill thousands every year..

    “this only received link YOU ARE NOT AUTHORISED TO ACCESS THIS PAGE. “: I just thought that was the Aussie Govt censorship at work.. I check a lot of searches I do now using a proxy browser to see what the Aussie Govt censors.

    …and I read yesterday that the Southern Hemisphere is a net CO2 sink, so we should ignore our carbon usage and start charging the Northern Hemisphere countries for cleaning up their pollution!

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    Jeremy C

    Erm, uhmmm, this has nothing to do with wind turbines or renewables and everything to do with EM fields. If offshore wind turbines didn’t exist this problem would still occur because there have been undersea cables carrying power for years, for example, carrying power from France to the UK or to islands off shore the UK.

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      There is a lot more cabling specifically because of off shore turbines. The cables are numerous and near shore and on structures that crabs inhabit. As Jo rightly points out, this study is just on crabs as an easy to observe and numerous creature. It leaves the question open about how far reaching this issue is.

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    CHRIS

    What a pity. I love crabs smothered in garlic and butter. If they are mesmerised by EMF pollution, then I will abstain

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    PeterS

    ESG (Environmental Social Governance) investing is now the rage. Talks about green lipstick. Go to 23:00 in the video. Watch the rest too as it’s so good.
    Explained here: Myth of the debt ceiling, virtual learning profits, investing to change the world

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