JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Explaining NZ locked down with 1 case: Imagine a virus is like a house fire, how long should you wait?

Harris & Ewing, photographer, White House Fire. 1955

Stepping right into the fray here with the hazmat suit on.  Some very bright people are missing the point of locking down with only one known case.

Imagine a virus is like a house fire. When the flames start, we don’t say, “it’s just a curtain, it’s only 1% of the house.”

On Tuesday, New Zealand found one sole Covid case and locked down the entire nation immediately at, like, Defcon level 4. Which sounds bonkers, understandably, to someone living in a place that’s had 38 million cases. But the brilliant Glen Greenwald, bless him, just got this one wrong. “They seem demented (and) oblivious to the costs of sustained isolation” he said, at a point when NZ had sustained all of 13 hours of isolation its first national lockdown for a year.

In similar form, the excellent Nigel Farage, declared Jacinda Ardern had lost her marbles. In response to the foreign critics like these,  defiant New Zealanders flocked to the #NZhellhole hashtag and let rip with thousands of scenic photos of ski slopes and beaches mocking what a tough life it was in the NZHellhole prison.

NZ Hellhole, lockdown Day 2.

It’s worth mentioning at this point that the death rate in New Zealand of the whole Covid pandemic so far has been just 5 per million — which is 7 times smaller than the Australian death rate and 380 times less than the US and UK.

Think of a bioweapon outbreak like a spark on dry grass.

Exponential growth changes everything. Once there is an uncontrolled flame, the best time to put it out is straight away.

Furthermore — If the strategy is going to be a lockdown of any sort sooner or later — because the hospitals will break at some stage — then every day that passes makes the eventual lockdown longer and more horrible. We can have lighter lockdowns or shorter lockdowns, but not both.

Lockdowns, graph, length, timing. shorter, faster restrictions.

A graph with no data, no units and no numbers because it’s pretty obvious.

So we’re all watching New Zealand in another round of Epidemiology-Games. It is the Delta variant, and they’ve now figured out it came from Sydney making it a clean sweep of infection spreading Delta from NSW to every state and nation in Australasia.

This is still democracy in action. Most New Zealanders probably figure it’s better than Gladys’ plan:

Tess McClure, The Guardian

…a disastrous outbreak of the Delta variant in Sydney has helped galvanise New Zealand’s “team of 5 million” – and across the country, the government’s tough strategy on Covid-19 has enjoyed widespread popular support.

New Zealanders have consistently supported even the toughest anti-Covid measures. About 80% rated the government’s Covid-19 response as overall good, according to polling commissioned by the Spinoff in February, and 59% rated the response as “excellent”.

Eliminating Bioweapons has its advantages:

New Zealand’s strict border controls have allowed citizens to live relatively normal, unimpeded lives for most of the past year – complete with packed restaurants, music festivals, and uninterrupted schooling. The country has surpassed the US and UK on measures including unemployment, quality of life, freedom of movement, and debt to GDP ratios. It has also suffered a relatively tiny number of deaths, hospitalisations, or serious illness and disability from Covid-19.

“We have spent very little time under restrictions compared to other countries,” says Wiles. “And we know that the stricter those restrictions are, if you use them well – we’ve lived those benefits. We’ve been living in this incredible bubble.”

A healthy economy starts with healthy people.

But here is a surprise…

To reduce Covid, New Zealand suspends vaccinations

Instead of going into overdrive to put people in long queues to get vaccinated, the New Zealand vaccination program has been suspended entirely. Presumably it will start soon with drive-by vaccines or some format that reduces the risk of spreading Covid.

Vaccines are slow medicines for a fast virus which increase the spread of the virus now, in order to prevent infections in a couple of months time.

Vaccinations suspended for 48hrs

Emma Russell, NZ Herald

New Zealand, Flag, Map.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has announced Covid vaccinations will be suspended for 48 hours due to a nationwide lockdown. “We want to ensure vaccinations can still take place in a safe environment… we will be providing a further update in the next 24 hours,” Ardern said this evening.

She said officials would be considering whether drive-through vaccinations were the best option and what other precautions could be put in place to ensure it was safe. Director-general of health Ashley Bloomfield echoed Ardern’s comments, saying we wanted to minimise movement as much as possible.

This is what a health department does if it is serious about stopping the spread rather than just being a promotions machine for Big Pharma, not mentioning any names Gladys Berejiklian.

Best wishes to our NZ friends in the hope that restrictions will end as soon and successfully as possible. And best wishes to anyone in lockdown restrictions anywhere.

This may seem like an esoteric discussion to people in places where elimination seems impossible, but in the Bioweapons Cold War Era, we still need to get this right. There are 1600 more bat viruses in the freezer at Wuhan.

Fire in the Whitehouse 1929: Wikimedia

5.7 out of 10 based on 90 ratings

467 comments to Explaining NZ locked down with 1 case: Imagine a virus is like a house fire, how long should you wait?

  • #
    Simon

    Vaccinations were suspended for 24 hours to initiate Level 4 protocols. The race is now on, can herd immunity be achieved through vaccination before an outbreak gets completely out of control?

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    • #

      Great plan Simon. After only three or four months of lockdowns and mass injections NZ might be in a position to open the economy briefly with masks and small groups with restrictions on weddings funerals, and no large gatherings, while they wait for the next mutation to arrive.

      Or they might get back to zero in a couple of weeks and live life as normal.

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      • #

        Zero? You need a 100% percent effective vaccine and nearly everyone vaccinated. That isn’t going to happen and carrying out a zero covid programme is going to end up with constant lockdowns, release lockdown release for years

        This article explore the mad max scenarios Oz and NZ find themselves in.

        https://dailysceptic.org/2021/08/19/australia-and-new-zealands-zero-covid-dilemma/

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        • #
          OldOzzie

          CDC Director Walensky: There is an “Increased Risk of Severe Disease Among Those Vaccinated Early” (VIDEO)

          Walensky on Wednesday said that people who received the Covid vaccine early on are at an increased risk for severe disease.

          So all the do-gooders and rule followers who blindly lined up to get the experimental jab right away are now being told they have no protection so they MUST get the booster.

          “We are seeing concerning evidence of waning vaccine effectiveness over time and against the Delta variant,” Walensky said.

          Walensky continued, “Reports from our international colleagues, including Israel, suggest increased risk of SEVERE disease amongst those VACCINATED EARLY.”

          Walensky said the only way out is to get the Covid booster.

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            OldOzzie

            Impact of Delta on viral burden and vaccine effectiveness against new SARS-CoV-2 infections in the UK
            Key findings from the study:

            . Obtaining two vaccine doses remains the most effective way to ensure protection against the COVID-19 Delta variant of concern dominant in the UK today.
            . With Delta, Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines still offer good protection against new infections, but effectiveness is reduced compared with Alpha.
            . Two doses of either vaccine still provided at least the same level of protection as having had COVID-19 before through natural infection; people who had been vaccinated after already being infected with COVID-19 had even more protection than vaccinated individuals who had not had COVID-19 before.
            . However, Delta infections after two vaccine doses had similar peak levels of virus to those in unvaccinated people; with the Alpha variant, peak virus levels in those infected post-vaccination were much lower.

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            • #
              greggg

              In that Oxford study, the data used for Delta is from 17 May 2021 to 1 August 2021. After 11 weeks the Astrazeneca gives a 4 in 10 chance of catching wuflu vs unvaccinated. The Pfizer gives a 3 in 10 chance vs unvaccinated. Leaky as. Give it a few more months and their effectiveness will be much less.

              See Figure S4, By prior infection status, no prior inf.

              https://www.ndm.ox.ac.uk/files/coronavirus/covid-19-infection-survey/finalfinalcombinedve20210816.pdf

              They also used data from people vaccinated at least 21 days after one dose, or at least 14 days after two doses – so early cases in those with immunity compromised because of vaccines were excluded. Were those cases included with the unvaccinated cases?

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        • #
          Tilba Tilba

          Zero? You need a 100% percent effective vaccine and nearly everyone vaccinated.

          No – that is the point of Jo’s comment. If you have a high-level lockdown for two weeks, you can get to zero new cases, and with strict border controls, maintain both zero cases and a pretty normal economy and life.

          We in Australia should be in that position – but a series of border breaches have wrecked it. And in NSW now, it looks like the genie is out of the bottle entirely.

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          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            It isn’t border breaches that wrecked it. This Delta variant came from India, transmitted to Europe then came to Australia.
            If we didn’t have international flights, we wouldn’t have the Delta variant at all.

            The fact that flights from Europe continue demonstrates to me that our government don’t want to erradicate the virus from our shores. We were down to 6 cases at one point. This whole mess was nearly avoided, but no, lets bring in more so we can shut the place down again. This is on them.

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            • #
              Tilba Tilba

              The fact that flights from Europe continue demonstrates to me that our government don’t want to erradicate the virus from our shores.

              Yeah well … I disagree that governments “don’t want to eradicate the virus”, but I take your general point. There was a fair amount of hubris and/or sloppy work in their faith in their “gold-standard quarantine” procedures. The breaches of quarantine might have been inevitable – and I remain pretty annoyed too that international flights have continued.

              The flight crew + limo driver breach is as appalling as the city hotel ones here in Melbourne.

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              • #

                The original problems with quarantine came from cruise ships releasing passengers into cities. The difference between the cruise ships and hotel quarantine in cities is the water. By removing the water, access for the virus has been greatly improved.

                Obviously we did not have three days to spare to park caravans someplace near a remote air strip to begin a quarantine camp 18 months ago.

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            • #
              sophocles

              Yep.

              If we didn’t have international flights,

              Each inward 777 is that many potential infections.

              Airliners are germ trucks.

              They have been recognised as Infection Vectors for decades.

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        • #

          Tony
          Keep talking sense and you will be banned. I was unable to get any comments up on The Australian related to the vaccines and have now been banned at LinkedIn for quoting science related to the “vaccines”, specifically that they do not confer immunity and they do not stop the spread at all.

          The vaccine response is totally wrong and will just result in a large number of deaths related to the vaccines.

          The lockdown argument is completely fraudulent as it never ever looks at the astronomical costs and the death toll due to the lockdowns, which is larger than the supposedly saved lives. Sweden shows the way forward here – we can learn from them on their nursing home issues but use Ivermectin, stop the lockdowns and open up.

          We will be locking down until the country is completely destroyed and will then have no choice but to open up.

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          • #

            “The vaccine response is totally wrong and will just result in a large number of deaths related to the vaccines.”

            l agree but it is not a vaccine Prophet, it gives false hope to call it a vaccine

            we need to stop calling the clot shot a vaccine,
            the jab does not sterilize the virus or give immunity so its not a vaccine

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          • #
            Tides of Mudgee

            To Prophet of Boom, I heard today about a pharmacist, so am I wrong to assume this may apply to all pharmacists, who has to report to an authority (perhaps health) any prescriptions for Ivermectin he is asked to dispense, if it is for Covid and not for parasitic reasons. Aren’t our fearless leaders urging us to believe that they want Covid stopped? Yeah, right! So we’re not only lab rats, we’re also, apparently, idiots. ToM

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          • #

            The lockdown argument is completely fraudulent as it never ever looks at the astronomical costs and the death toll due to the lockdowns, which is larger than the supposedly saved lives.

            The anti-lockdown argument can be just as bad — consider cause and effect, and the astronomic costs of letting the virus leak in in the first place, compared to stopping it at the border.

            $50 Hazmat suits could’ve spared Australian and NZ.

            The strongest economies in the world are the ones that kept Chinese Bioweapons out.

            Fix the borders. No need for lockdowns.

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            • #
              Damon

              A respiratory virus cannot be ‘stopped’. Sure you can close the borders, but you will have to do so permanently. Since it now appears that the vaccinated can be both infected, and infectious, are you going to cease all international interactions, or put everybody (pilots, seamen etc) in quarantine? Or just assume that if you can afford an overseas holiday you can afford an extra $3,000 for quarantine? For an infection that approximately 99.7 percent of people survive. “Didn’t kill granny” will be the epitaph of this generation, and a sillier one can hardly be imagined.

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              • #

                Don’t shoot the messenger for saying the obvious OK? 🙂 C’mon. I know you are frustrated.

                1. Obviously, the virus can be stopped — see most states of Australia and NZ for most of the last year. If this were ebola, we’d keep it out. So we are discussing the cost. Is it worth kitting up everyone in infection control cars and hotels with Hazmat suits, goggles and respirators? Seems a bargain if it stops the lockdowns. It’s freedom from mandatory Vaxes, freedom from most restrictions, and freedom from Chinese bioweapons. But a bummer for international travel for sure.

                2. Obviously I’m not talking permanent and never have. It’s about what we what we do til we get a better solution. That might be Ivermectin and other antivirals, but I’ve been campaigning to get them accepted. Can you help?

                3. From the beginning I’ve been working to prevent lockdowns. I predicted they would happen unless the West stopped the flights and set up hard quarantine. It was obvious the voters would not be willing to let the virus spread freely until we had treatments. It’s just democracy. You might be comfortable with the odds, but I knew most voters wouldn’t be. Anyone involved in polling would know that people would rather keep grandma and skip the holiday in Phuket temporarily. There’s always another year. Is that so awful?

                PS: Re — “99.7% survive” — bear in mind that 0.2- 0.6% of the entire population in at least 85 countries have already died of covid. And then there’s long covid…

                P:S I already laid out the temporary nature in my list below of what are we waiting for. I’ve been writing about nanobodies, nutrients and antivirals for 18 months.

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              • #
                AZ1971

                2. Obviously I’m not talking permanent and never have. It’s about what we what we do til we get a better solution. That might be Ivermectin and other antivirals, but I’ve been campaigning to get them accepted.

                Have you seen any discussion from the government about treatments for Covid-19, yes or no?

                I’ve seen government leaders and infectious disease specialists disparage ALL discussion here in the States regarding ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine and any other treatment to avert hospitalization and death. The sole push has been on (a) vaccination (b) mask mandates and (c) social distancing with an overt bias towards vaccination alone. Why?

                It’s been 19 months since this nightmare began. Whatever happened to all those other pharmaceutical companies working on developing their own vaccine? Why do we only have three, and why are NONE of them an attenuated whole-virus vaccine? Prophet of Boom is correct – the vaccine is not a vaccine meant to confer immunity, it’s meant to minimize severity of symptoms. Those who were naturally immunized with the alpha or beta version last summer more or less all have more robust immune responses than those with the mRNA “vaccine” because a body’s response to the many components of a viral particle is broader and more complex than that of a single spike protein that can change with mutation.

                As I see it, the government’s singular mindset of vaccination (coupled with the soft tyranny of corporate vaccination mandates that violates a free thinking civil society’s members) proves that it’s not about public health at all but coercion and control. When naturally immunized people who have no reason to be vaccinated are turned into social pariahs, or worse, openly discriminated against, while fully vaccinated people are still being colonized and spreading the virus but deemed “acceptable” to gather in large groups (in direct violation of best public health practices) then the whole “us vs. them” mentality needs to be discarded, along with the idea that this vaccine is all its cracked up to be.

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            • #
              MrGrimNasty

              The world does not and cannot operate as isolated regions/nations with no people traffic.

              There’s no end-game to the zero covid strategy – it is a daft idea, always was.

              Covid is not a seriously dangerous disease, at some point Oz and NZ are just going to have to accept that a few end-of-life people may technically die a few weeks earlier than they might otherwise have done.

              The damage of the zero covid strategy is crazily out of proportion to the problem.

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              Steve Keppel-Jones

              Jo, what exactly are the “astronomic costs” of letting a respiratory virus spread? It’s going to anyway, just like all the others, and as we discussed earlier, there was no excess mortality cost to this one at all (so far). If we let people get proper medicine (not vaccines), which you already know about and propound regularly, there is no need for anyone to even go to the hospital. What astronomic cost? A few sniffles and a sore throat?

              Remember, the link between “virus” and “disease” has a lot of intermediate steps, it’s not a 1-to-1 relationship. So picturing a virus like a house fire is a pretty poor analogy. You could improve the analogy by comparing a spark in a house that’s been completely drenched in water (a healthy immune system) to a spark in a house that’s tinder-dry (a deficient immune system). Maybe we should focus on the water, not the spark, since there are always going to be sparks…

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              • #

                “…there was no excess mortality cost to this one at all (so far). ”
                Any idea why the 45-64 years mortality here is running along at nearly 5 times the 2019 excess level?
                “Graphs showing the weekly excess deaths (deviation in mortality from the expected level) in the data-providing EuroMOMO partner countries for the past years, all ages and by age groups.”

                https://euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

                20

              • #
                Robert Swan

                Siliggy,
                Those are interesting graphs, but they seem to borrow at least one idea from the climatologists: the 2019 baseline is the lowest of previous years. While 2020 is still the highest, it doesn’t look quite so bad if you enable the 2016-18 plots.

                I’m not sure I understand the graphs either. Initially, they look like cumulative figures, since they nearly all ramp up over the year, but no, some of the graphs do go downwards in parts. Ok. How is it that, in the entire six years, hardly any stretch for any age group is ever below the expected mortality rate? Doesn’t seem likely. Should it not more or less balance out over all those years? What am I missing?

                10

              • #

                Robert
                I looked about the site and can’t figure it out either. I don’t think 2019 is the baseline but can’t find what is. It is the single dotted line along zero in the “Excess mortality” section.
                I see 2021 higher than all others when selecting 2016-18 as you suggested for ages 15-44, 45-64 and 65-74 (cumulated).

                00

              • #
                Robert Swan

                Siliggy,
                Thanks. I shouldn’t have said “baseline” there — I meant “comparison”. 2019 seems a remarkably low year in the whole set.

                I was only referring to “All ages” when saying 2020 was highest. It is interesting that 2021 is high for the younger age groups, but quite a low year for 85+. Maybe just the hardiest ones are left.

                Interesting to click the “Weekly” button. Makes the seasonal pattern a bit clearer. And my only guess for how a cumulative graph can go downwards is that more people enter that category (as people turn 15 or whatever). They don’t show up so well in the older age groups because of the larger Y range.

                00

              • #
                Steve Keppel-Jones

                It is a bit hard to see the patterns in those pooled weekly death statistics. Here’s something else you can try, although I can’t find it on euromomo. Pick any country and look at its death rate by year, say Austria: Austria death rate

                Now see if you can spot the deadly pandemic in 2020.

                00

        • #
          Brenda Spence

          Except that he doesnt explore the use of antivirals! These guys all have tunnel vision.

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        • #

          For one detected case now there was at least one undetected case before, and I am certain where there be one there be many and they will only be found by mass testing of the entire population. This is why the craziness of chasing cases and not disease is so crippling to our communities.

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          • #
            Simon

            The reason NZ is in a Level 4 lockdown is it gives a chance to work back up the links in the chain while the virus is unable to spread. The virus is traceable so long as the number of links is small. NZ is fairly confident that they have found the root case so now it is just of matter of finding the missing link(s). Genotype virus profiling is so important.

            730

        • #
          Simon

          A vaccine does not have to be 100% effective. The goal is herd protection rather than complete herd immunity. At some stage NZ has to let the virus in and run through those unfortunate enough to be susceptible. The number of severe cases should be small and the health system will cope. Borders can’t stay closed forever.

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        • #
      • #
        OldOzzie

        Amazon brings Lord Of The Rings TV show filming to UK due to New Zealand Covid restrictions

        THOUSANDS of jobs will be created as filming of the Lord of the Rings series moves to Britain.

        Amazon has pulled out of New Zealand after the “zero Covid” country refused to open its borders till 2022.

        Season one of the unnamed series based on the JRR Tolkien fantasy books was filmed in the cut-off island nation this summer.

        But directors will now shoot the ­second season in post-lockdown Britain — starting early next year — after New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern extended a travel ban until at least next year.

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      • #
        Brenda Spence

        The thing is Jo (and I usually agree with you ) lockdowns are unsustainable. The people are becoming rebellious and they are turning on the unvaxxed because they see us as a hindrance to opening up.

        I was in favour at the beginning but now, with vaccine efficacy falling rapidly, it seems to me the only answer is Ivermectin and co.

        After all, no vaccine worked for HIV but triple therapy antivirals have. I understand also, that coronavirus vaccines havent worked either in the past.

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        • #

          The people are trapped in a vice of incompetence and corruption, and there are two ways out. They are rebellious with good reason in NSW because it’s been shockingly and hypocritically managed. Solving a pandemic with a leaky vaccine was never going to be good.

          I’m all for the use of antivirals (as you know) but we don’t know for sure, aren’t close and (it’s a crime) but there hasn’t been a first world mass experiment. Which rich nation lives free? Only those with hard borders. But lets work for antivirals in the long run…

          The other path out has already been done in many states, is what the voters want, can be done in weeks, and gives people freedom from masks, Chinese bioweapons, and mandatory vaccines. We get freedom to have packed stadiums, concerts, visit anyone we like, no matter how old they are or whether they have cancer.

          Without antivirals hospitals will be running near capacity and this lockdown will go on for months and only end with ongoing rounds of restrictions like Israel and Iceland (see the next post). Is that all we’re aiming for?

          And if you feel demoralized and like “we have to have the virus” this year, ponder that there might be a few CEOs of Big Pharma and Qantas etc who are happy about that. There are vested interests on both sides…

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          • #
            David A

            Work for antivirals now, and we know they work .

            Voters are ill informed, on purpose. They don’t know that…
            The antivirals work!
            That the vaccinated cary as high or higher of a viral load.
            That the vaccines lose effectiveness rapidly.
            That the vaccinated are MORE likely to transmit the virus.
            The difference between relative risk and absolute risk.
            That most of the population has nothing to fear from COVID-19.
            That the spike protein goes systemic.
            That the spike protein is, of itself, harmful.
            That the adverse events are incredibly high and serious.
            That ADE is a growing likelihood.
            https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243262
            That the vaccines may harm natural immunity.
            That natural immunity is far superior and long lasting compared to the vaccines.
            That lock downs are, of themselves deadly, and create lasting harms that cost lives and destroy the joy of living.
            Etc…

            Big pharmacy is happy now! Why? Because lockdowns and suppression of antivirals forces people to get the harmful jab, over and over again, and, as the virus is in the wild and the vaccine is failed, perhaps the eugenics goals will be achieved.

            50

          • #
            Ian

            Were antivirals such as Ivermectin and HCQ and zinc and Vit D used to treat the coronaviruses SARS-2 and MERS? If not why not?

            00

            • #
              Lucky

              I recall that the clue for HCQ came from China, then was taken up by Roaul in France and Zelenko in NY. They tried it with slightly different protocols and got very good results.
              The data analysis tools using large scale computing were not available until quite recently to perform the searches on existing medications they could be effective. I understand that is how ivermectin was considered as a possible cure and there were in-vitro studies.
              How the vit D3 became recognized, someone else can contribute to that question maybe.
              Besides the above, there are several other approaches, as Jo and others have mentioned here.

              00

    • #

      With these “vaxx” you never will get any herd immunity. It’s a “Simple” 🙂 question of percentage of “vaxx” efficiency fallen to around 60% and an R0 of the Delta variant to be 5 – 8 (persons infected by one other)

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The vaccines allow people to catch and then spread the virus.

        Its madness.

        At some point, as with fire fighting, Id suggest its better to let it run in a controlled manner ( a form of backburning), let people develop natural immunity, rather than live under perpetual lunacy of hair trigger never ending country crippling lockdowns….unless people like living a permenantly crippled life?

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        • #
          WXcycles

          What is madness is to allow it to burn when isolation ends transmission completely and the numbers crash to zero in weeks. You still have a house, with only minor damage.

          Yours has burned to the slab.

          1032

          • #
            FarmerDoug2

            “..burned to slab.”
            No.
            Bit smoked perhaps but now I can live without ANY restrictions. Death rates are not high and when we get treatments sorted even less.
            I’m for protecting the vulnerable and let it rip.
            However if you are going for lockdown and zero cases then early, thorough, lockdown is required then tough, restrictive, international and state quarantine.
            Doug

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            • #
              FarmerDoug2

              Wish I’d read Ziggy at 12 betore I wrote that. He doesk a better job.

              30

              • #
                Ted1

                It would help no end if we had leaders who didn’t lie to us.

                Those officials who decried the use of masks, apparently trying to avoid a repeat of the toilet paper fiasco, have much to answer for. The confusion that lie created surely was a major contributor to the escape of CV19.

                The rate of infection that we saw in some nursing homes indicated that established protocols for preventing the spread of infection were not being adhered to.

                Even the anti-lockdown riots are supported to some extent by that lie.

                If a mask did no more than catch 90% of the spittle that flies when people are talking that would justify their use. Most masks would do that.

                00

        • #

          There are vaccines on the way as Valneva Initiates Further Phase 3 Clinical Trial for its COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate and Novavax – Safety and Efficacy
          The first is based on deactivated virus, the second “is made up with proteins from the virus already attached to a carrier and these trigger the immune system directly” Source

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        • #

          The latest Oxford university study shows that those who are double vaccinated are much less likely to catch the virus and much less likely to become seriously ill

          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9905631/Double-jabbed-catch-Delta-variant-just-likely-spread-Covid-unvaccinated.html

          It won’t however stop you spreading the virus thereby rendering vaccine passports pointless

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          • #
            Analitik

            The source study also shows how rapidly the effects of the gene therapy spike protein vaccines fades very rapidly and are also notably less effective vs the Delta variant.

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            Raving

            Vaccine passports aren’t pointless.

            They help to stoke fear by promising that something is accomplished by shutting out the unvaxxed
            They help to stoke fear by promising to be a magic shield against infection

            They make the vaccinated person feel superior and important by being entitled to special privellege
            They help the unvaccinated to get vaccinated to end the harrasment caused by not having a passport
            They help to normalize totalitarian behavior

            They help to ease fear by allowing people to imagine that they are better off for having passports

            /sarc Great idea! /sarc

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        • #
          Tilba Tilba

          The vaccines allow people to catch and then spread the virus. Its madness.

          The vaccines are not 100% effective, but the number of breakthrough cases is dwarfed by the number of vaccinated people who do not become infected. And most importantly, the vaccinated are almost entirely spared hospitalisation and death from Covid-19.

          It’s rational, not madness. If the vaccinated can still have asymptomatic infection, and spread the virus unknowingly, that is extremely unfortunate, but it is not an argument against vaccines. It makes lockdowns and contact-tracing harder and longer.

          It might raise questions about the point of vaccine passports, but more data is probably needed.

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          • #
            Analitik

            “dwarfed”

            Present the studies that show this. Not the vapid statements made by government officials.

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            • #
              Tilba Tilba

              Preliminary data shows 99.5% of COVID-related deaths in Texas [since February] were among unvaccinated people, according to the Department of State Health Services.

              https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/21/coronavirus-texas-vaccinated-deaths/

              I consider a 99.5% number fairly significant.

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                Steve Keppel-Jones

                Spot the pea, though. 99.5% includes “partially vaccinated”, i.e. only one shot, or a second shot but it was less than two weeks prior to death. I would bet quite a bit of money that most of those deaths were not “unvaccinated” at all. Tricky tricky, Tilba Tilba… Note that there were no excess “unvaccinated” deaths last year. Why would there be any this year, all other things being equal?

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          • #
            Chad

            And most importantly, the vaccinated are almost entirely spared hospitalisation and death from Covid-19.

            ..you may believe that,…but most informed people do not !

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            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Present the studies that show this. Not the vapid statements made by your “informed people”.

              Goose. Gander. Cooked.

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          • #
            Trevor

            It seems the vaccines are effective initially, which is why if you just look at Australia numbers you might reach this conclusion. Luck would have it that we took a while to get going, while other countries managed to get a high vaccination rate quite quickly.

            One such place was Israel. Initially there were very few cases which may have been due to the high vaccination rate. A couple of months later the cases have been going up and the percentages of vaccinated people in hospital basically matches the percentage vaccinated. Therefore, being vaccinated or unvaccinated made little difference to you ending up in hospital if you had taken the vaccination 3+ months earlier.

            http://www.kathydopp.info/COVIDinfo/Vaccines/COVIDvaccinesNotEffective

            Similar results showing in other high vaccination rate countries too.

            Take your booster! Every 3 months! Nothing could go wrong!

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            Monna Manhas

            “The vaccines are not 100% effective, but the number of breakthrough cases is dwarfed by the number of vaccinated people who do not become infected.”

            Since the “vaccines” were developed to mitigate symptoms rather than to confer immunity, we actually have no idea how many “vaccinated” people have become infected. A person who doesn’t feel sick will not seek either testing or medical care.

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      Konrad

      No, herd immunity cannot be achieved with non-sterilizing inoculations.

      The only race is see how fast the “vaccine passport” governments give up their fever dream and move to protect their citizens with anti-viral drug triple therapy.

      661

      • #
        Vicki

        Right again, Konrad.

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        OldOzzie

        Has anyone ever asked Dr Kerry Chant NSW Chief Health Officer during the Press Conferences, what were the Vitamin D levels of Patients in ICU, and what preventative measures are taken/given for people who test Covid Positive

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        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          G’day OO,
          I think the answer is “No”, but I tune but so quickly that I can’t be sure??
          My respect for those reporters is so low that I doubt they have either the knowledge or the nous to pose such a question.

          But it is a question which should be asked.

          Cheers
          Dave B

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          Analitik

          Dr Kerry Chant wouldn’t even give an upfront answer to whether Adriana Midori Takara (the 38-year-old Brazilian woman who died of CoVid in July) was vaccinated prior to being infected/hospitalized. All she said was she would need to check on it when she was asked in a press conference.

          Yet the Chief Health Officers et al are all too quick to point out the vaccination status when someone died who wasn’t vaccinated.

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      Antoine D'Arche

      There is no herd immunity from these “vaccines”. There is mortality reduction only. Very different.

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      • #
        Brenda Spence

        Not really much different to antivirals, etc, but with worse side effects!

        230

        • #
          Antoine D'Arche

          Exactly! Just far more expensive for us, and more enriching for the Pharma companies.

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        • #
          David A

          The vaccines are far far worse then the effective antivirals.
          The vaccines promote transmission, lose effectiveness, damage natural immunity, and yes, the harms are many, including ADE.
          https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243262

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          • #
            Another Delcon

            I tried to give an up tick to this post but ( as seems to happen often recently ) I got a ” Duplicate vote ” message .
            So I will comment instead .
            What is said in the link is spot on : ” You stupid , stupid bastards ” .
            That is why we have never had a vaccine for corona viruses , it was never going to work .
            And it didn’t . These vaccines are now a complete failure and their leaky nature just guarantees the production of variants that bypass the vaccine .
            For the first few weeks the vaccines actually make the virus more deadly . Then for a couple of months the vaccines are useful , then even that ends .
            Why have the antivirals been effectively banned ?
            They are VERY safe compared the the so called vaccines so it can’t be a safety issue .
            The REAL REASON THEY ARE BANNED is that they actually work and work well . That would provide an alternative to the ” vaccines ” . And we can’t have that can we ?
            And what public serpent would want to give up the power of standing in front of a microphone and giving the order to lock down the entire state .
            And what journalist would want to end the panic porn ?

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      Mantaray

      Maybe I’m wrong, and someone will correct me, but isn’t one of the foundations of Herd Immunity that the vaxed people can no longer get infected or ill = are no longer spreaders or hosts. Oxford Uni explains it thus….

      “….there is a second way in which vaccines protect us. If the vaccine stops you catching the disease, you can’t pass it on to anyone else. This means that when enough people in the population are protected by vaccination, it effectively stops diseases from circulating at all.This is often called herd immunity, but a better name is herd protection”

      Since we know these gene-therapies do not stop the illness nor infections then Herd Immunity is not possible, is it/

      BTW: The US NFIS gives 10 reasons to get vaxed IN GENERAL (ie this was before the Covid19 mishap/attack), none of which is “Herd Immunity”. I have never seen or read this anywhere as justification for any other vax = it’s but another BS lie as part of the push to get the unknown substance into us VOLUNTARILY. Why?

      2nd BTW: I particular like the word HERD being applied to humans. Such a pleasant whiff of being prepared for the slaughter. And WWII cattle-wagons off to Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Treblinka etc. AND the unfortunates HERDED into them.

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        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        I think the term “herd immunity” was disappeared from public view when it became obvious that those “vaccines” weren’t producing any.

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          Analitik

          Yes, now the federal & NSW governments are talking about living with CoViD and inevitable cases. The (very) first signs of recognition of reality is (just) starting to creep in.

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      • #

        Sort of but replace “foundations” with “goals”.

        There have been some vaccines that approach that goal but most have parameters that require medicos to keep an eye on some level of infection and/or transmission.

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          Peter C

          The GOAL is Herd Immunity.

          The FOUNDATIONAL assumption is that Herd Immunity can be achieved by vaccination. An axiom of that is the belief that Vaccines will stop transmission and protect the vaccinated.

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    WXcycles

    Imagine a virus is like a house fire. When the flames start, we don’t say, “it’s just a curtain, it’s only 1% of the house.”

    Try explaining that to Rowan Dean and Co. on Outsiders, they seem unable to grasp or focus on such a basic concept.

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      Mantaray

      OK, so there’s a spark; a tiny flame. I immediately grab the factory-grade fire-hose with the dedicated super-high-pressure pump and start blasting the curtain.

      An hour later windows and walls are shattered. Carpets and furniture are ruined. The rest of the house is semi-flooded with all manner of damage (crockery+ glass cabinets upturned with contents smashed; various electrical appliances shorted out and wrecked etc)

      Is it possible that this full-on approach may have been an over-reaction?

      If it were Jacinda’s very own house, or Gladys’ or ScoMo’s place, I suspect they may have grabbed the kitchen extinguisher instead, and used teh targetted approach..

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        So the fire analogy is not perfect. The analogy was trying to show the outcome of not acting at all.

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          Greg Cavanagh

          Well lets go with the common cold then as the analogy.

          When you catch the cold and go to work coughing, what happens?
          1. Your boss tells you to go home until your better.
          2. Your colleges tell you to go home so they don’t catch it.
          3. You choose to stay home for a couple days until you get over it.
          4. You think it’s bad enough to go to the doctor and get some advice and perhaps a prescription to help you get over it.

          Now for bonus points, how is the reaction of shutting down an entire city because you got a cough different to the above.

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          Analitik

          A house fire is a terrible analogy.
          A much better fire analogy is immediately putting out every small bushfire so the undergrowth is never cleared.

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            Mantaray

            The house-fire analogy was meant to confuse, since the consequences of letting the small flame burn unhindered would SURELY cause lotsa destruction and much disruption.. Meanwhile the Covid-fire burns at high pitch in Britain (36,000 new infections today + 113 deaths) with the average age of death 80.4 years, and no-one fraeking out AT ALL.

            Now, I’ve been to several funerals and services for people in their 70s and 80s and 90s and am yet to hear anyone say something like “he died way too young” or even ‘too young”…like when you see those words chisseled on some younger person’s gravestone. Death at that age is EXPECTED by ALL concerned, so what’s the big deal that someone in a nursing home, or in palliative care “catches their death of cold” by Covid instead of the flu, or instead of by bacterial pneumonia, exactly?

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              Analytik, the house fire analogy is much better than the bushfire version. Then we end up in the debate about reducing fuel in the wild.

              In a house, there are no benefits to “letting it burn”.
              In a body, there are no benefits to “letting a Chinese Bioweapon infect you”.

              Mantaray, I would not be surprised if stiff-upper-lip Brits who were 80 or 90 never complained to you, but nearly all the older people I know tell me they have a lot to live for.

              If we give up on them, what message does it send as a civilization? Are our holidays in Bali more important than our grandparents? Or would we be happy to holiday in our home countries and keep the older generation?

              What young men would join the defence force and be willing to die for a nation that won’t protect them when they are old, or their loved ones now?

              Just close the borders until there is a realistic treatment or working vaccination that has been properly tested. Do it for the young. Thousands of young Australians are being encouraged/forced to take experimental vaccines, and for what? So Qantas can profit off international trips and chinese students can study again in Australia? So mass immigration can force down blue collar wages and push housing prices up even further and increase the vote for the Labor Party?

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                Raving

                You have a house fire in NSW, Jo

                The state is centimeters away from losing it

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                Analitik

                So Jo, you now see ivermectin, hxdroxychloroquine, zinc, vitamin D and other supplements and medications used by the FLCCC Alliance and The BIRD Group etc as ineffectual or un”realistic”?

                What is not realistic is continually locking down at the first infection case or completely isolating from the rest of the world. And don’t quote WA at us since us easterners are acting as your quarantine zone over there.

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                Chris

                Hi Jo, I live in a small older suburb in Perth, we have a Coles supermarket, two chemists and an assorted mix of old strip shops which have mostly be made over as coffee shops and take aways. Last year the chemists had to throw out all their stock of colds and flu medications as it sat on the selves past the use by dates. This year something different happened; over approximately an eight week period the chemists and Coles were laid waste with barren shelves. My usual Pharmacist said they couldn’t keep up with the demand, colds and flu medications were just walking out the door. I made a point of checking Coles shelves and they were empty for about 3 weeks. ‘Everyone’ was off colour. We had scratchy throats, coughs, snotty noses and generally felt lethargic, no aches and pains, no symptoms of hay fever just mildly unwell for four weeks. “Was it covid”? was the question that moved like a meme through the school mums and coffee shops. Without any prompting people started to say, ” I’d like to know but I’m not getting tested in case it comes back positive . I don’t want to lock down my family, the neighbours, my children friends parents. I don’t want to close the coffees shops and the small family take away shops, I don’t want to put the uni students out their part time work – I’m not sick “.

                Everything now is back to normal. I wonder if it was covid and the virus is quietly moving through the suburbs of Perth without people getting really sick and no-one wants to tell Mark McGowan.

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                Analitik

                That sounds like what happened at the start of July with loads of kids in NZ, Chris – respiratory syncytial virus was what they attributed it to.

                https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/125688496/rsv-outbreak-hospitals-and-gps-flat-tack-as-virus-hits-children-across-nz

                And Jo, the bushfire analogy is that small controlled burnoffs prevent the disastrous conflagrations when there is excessive fuel buildup. In the CoViD sense, this would be a highly infectious, vaccine resistant strain hitting our shores and no one having natural immunity from recovering from previous infection, supported by anti-virals and supplements.

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                Sceptical Sam

                Analitik says:

                don’t quote WA at us since us easterners are acting as your quarantine zone over there.

                No you’re not.

                We’re our own quarantine. You can’t cross the border without a valid G2G pass and even then you must quarantine for 14 days and be tested.

                It’s tough. But it’s working. The WA economy is flying. People are working. People are surfing, swimming, walking, camping, and generally enjoying a good life. The restaurants, bars and pubs are heaving.

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              • #

                “but nearly all the older people I know tell me they have a lot to live for.

                If we give up on them, what message does it send as a civilization? Are our holidays in Bali more important than our grandparents? Or would we be happy to holiday in our home countries and keep the older generation?

                What young men would join the defence force and be willing to die for a nation that won’t protect them when they are old, or their loved ones now?”

                Jo you sound like you believe if the elderly catch the CCP kung flu they will just drop off the perch?
                the truth is there are plenty of elderly positive cases who did not even know they had the kung flu that had not had or would have the clot shot
                (my wife works in aged care)
                another thing to consider is the risks of problems for the elderly after given the jab are greatly higher and the saying that “the benefits outweigh the risks” do not apply the same for the elderly, even if they are in Gods waiting room they still deserve to feel valid and safe

                below is from the TGA report 27/05/21

                “it is possible in frail older people that even relatively mild and expected adverse reactions
                following the vaccination may contribute to deterioration of an underlying illness. For this reason, the Product Information documents for both the Pfizer
                (https://www.ebs.tga.gov.au/ebs/picmi/picmirepository.nsf/PICMI?OpenForm&t=pi&q=comirnaty) and the AstraZeneca (https://www.ebs.tga.gov.au/ebs/picmi/picmirepository.nsf/PICMI?OpenForm&t=PI&q=COVID19%20Vaccine%20AstraZeneca&r=/) vaccines provide advice about vaccinating frail elderly people (over
                85 years old) and warn that the potential benefits of vaccination must be weighed against the potential risks for each individual person.”

                l also heard a joke l’ll share:
                a guy started to get the sniffles and was really worried after Dan Andrews said in a news conference that “there is no flu anymore so if you have symptoms it is covid get tested”
                so the guy goes to the doctors and gets his covid test
                he returns a few days later for the results complaining to the doctor that he has been sick with worry and could not sleep at all
                the doctor gives him a negative result and tells him he has the flu
                he says to the doctor when will this all end l cant take it anymore, its driving me mad
                the doctor looks at him and says “how would l know, l’m a doctor not a politician”

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                Lucky

                Reply to Marksman, that is the crucial issue-
                “the potential benefits of vaccination must be weighed against the potential risks for each individual person”
                Has that ever been done, on anyone, anywhere?

                Probably, no. Your GP works for the state not for you. The standard ‘Health Dept” response of recommending vax is given.

                Consider, who evaluates and who does the weighing?
                It it is the individual person weighing / deciding not to be vaxed they are called selfish, they will not get the non-compulsory passport and so will not get work or entry to a range of facilities. When in public they are to be marked by a yellow strip, a scarlet A, or pointed hat. The same government power and policies as are used in inflicting lockdowns – Compulsion for the common good.
                As there can be a range of fires, there can be a range of responses. Who decides?

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                Analitik

                Sure Sam, just ignore all the goods that reach WA by rail and road that are imported or made with with imported components and require international travellers or their delivery and procurement.

                WA uses the east coast as a quarantine layer

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          David A

          Ivermectin and the other antivirals are the water, the vaccines may turn out to be an accelerant. In Israel they are.

          Israel, July 4th to July 10th cases, vaccinated vs unvaccinated, with percentages. ( Note, the more recent the chart like this, the greater the percentage of vaccinated vs unvaccinated, and, like this chart, the vaccinated become the majority. ) https://chiefio.files.wordpress.com/2021/08/80beb-screenshot2021-07-14at17.29.56.png?w=638&h=332&zoom=2

          In early August in Israel, 95 percent of serious cases in Israel were vaccinated!
          All nations, including the U.S. are following the pattern of Israel; initially the vaccines are somewhat effective, quickly becoming indistinguishable from the unvaccinated, first in cases, ( because only the vaccinated symptomatic get tested) then in serious illness and fatalities. Will the R.O.W. follow Israel and soon the most and worst cases will be the vaccinated? The pattern is real.
          Also we should consider that the vast majority of serious cases of Covid 19 were in the 65 plus demographic. Yet very early that population was vaccinated! What would the early Covid waves have looked like if that demographic had been unaffected or immunized from the virus. ( Smaller, much smaller than the post vaccine waves)

          My point is the vaccines should have been far more effective than demonstrated, especially initially, because the vulnerable were almost 100 percent vaccinated very early, and the most vulnerable had already died. Also the current time period has the additional benefit of far more people with natural immunity and seasonal Northern Hemisphere benefits. ( Yet every major MSM outlet mindlessly gives 100 percent credit to any reduction to the vaccines!)

          In summary I see zero vaccine benefits, ( other than an initial reduction) and signs of them being counterproductive, ( mutations, more contagious, etc…) not to mention the ignored adverse events, and clearly, for the majority of the population in very little danger from the virus, they are already worse then the virus. The vaccines may negatively affect T cell immunity, so those that were exposed to Covid 19 prior to the vaccines may have had their long term immunity compromised.

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      Bright Red

      A smart person might try putting the curtain out while it is a small fire before resorting to flooding the entire house just in case they can not extinguish it rather than going full flood straight up.
      You may have saved the house from burning but you still destroyed it by flooding.

      The old adage that the cure is worse than the disease applies here.

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    southern kiwi

    You are such a bedwetter on SARS-CoV-2, Jo.

    The current official plan in NZ (the govt and its advisers) is LOCKDOWNS AT SHORT NOTICE FOR EVER, with no alternative policy in sight.

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    • #

      OK. Southern Kiwi, your opposition to lockdowns noted. No one says anything about forever. There are several ways this will pan out.

      1. The virus may mutate to be nicer. Spanish flu took 3 years.
      2. Second gen vaccines may induce sterilizing immunity (with say oral dosing to induce antibodies in mucous membranes to prevent infection.)
      3. We may have to use antivirals in combination with vaccines to stop the leaking.
      4. Or leaking vaccines select for a nastier strain of the virus which makes all the current vaccines much less useful. Whole world goes through more waves, but countries that missed the first waves know how to avoid the subsequent ones. (Build better quarantine).
      5. Big Pharma discovers a patentable expensive antiviral that is as useful as the cheap ones and governments approve it.
      6. We use monoclonal antibodies to protect people who work in high risk zones or want to travel overseas and they quickly become popular and cheap and borders reopen.
      7. Things get so bad, the public demand real antivirals and the modern versions of penecillin for viruses get mass use, and change the face of medicine…
      8. Wuhan lab releases different virus…
      9…

      All of the above

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        Contemptible Blackguard

        Jo. Here is a great article from the Atlantic about the ‘Ping’demic aka the Bioweapon of Beijing:

        https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/how-we-live-coronavirus-forever/619783/

        Ps I hope your arm is getting better!

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        • #

          Thanks for the link Cont. Blackguard. Indeed — dang – I have draft post on that same study of 229E because I found it such a fascinating outcome. Amazing length and detail in that research. I haven’t released it partly because I thought I was a bit of a microbiology-nerd, and not everyone would be as interested in the question about 229E as me. But I keep thinking I will…

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      • #
        Vicki

        Good summary, Jo. I wouldn’t disagree with those probabilities.

        The CDC has already announced work on anti-virals & Fauci has given it the nod. In the last few days the Regeneron has already been approved by the FDA for release.

        It is a disgraceful situation that they wil not approve existing drugs like Ivermectin. But there it is.

        I think leaky vaccines & the recognition of ADE developing will force the issue in the pursuit of other responses to the virus.

        But I agree that this virus may still have further mutations & the further Chinese bio weapon threat is another issue.

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        • #

          As long as there isn’t a sterilizig vaccine, as long mutations have time to develop.
          In the meantime it’s necessary to boost the immunesystem, try to get Ivermectin or look for possible alternatives as oil of Black Seeds (Nigella Sativa), Quercitin etc.

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            David A

            Ivermectin and the other virals are far more effective then the vaccines.
            When Jo says, “We may have to use antivirals in combination with vaccines to stop the leaking.“. I am struck by the word choice; “ WE MAY HAVE TO …. like it would be a last ditch desperate move. Stop the vaccines, they failed. The antivirals work far better then the vaccines with far less side effects.

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        • #

          pfizer already has an ivermectin pill on the market
          http://all4pills.site/categories/Antibiotics/Stromectol?trackid=gn

          apparently Scomo has made it legal recently for the vulnerable, the elderly and the front line care workers to use ivermectin for treating the Wung Flu so l have been told,
          but you will pay for it LOL, who woulda thought that

          l’m thinking there are reasons behind the lack of willingness to distribute anti virials that have already been tested in country’s that have had big problems with the CCP virus and it may have to do with contracts the governments signed in a hurry with big pharma to get these clot shots into the country
          here’s a link to 857 studies that have already been done around the world for early treatment someone else posted up in the past few days https://c19early.com/

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            Analitik

            Stromectol is actually a Merkx product and the human approved version of ivermectin but since ivermectin is out of patent, cheaper versions of the same medication are available in other parts of the world under different names.

            https://secure.healthlinks.net.au/content/msd/cmi.cfm?product=mkcstrob

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          • #
            David A

            Marksman ’m thinking there are reasons behind the lack of willingness to distribute anti virials that have already been tested in country’s that have had big problems with the CCP virus and it may have to do with contracts the governments signed in a hurry with big pharma to get these clot shots into the country.

            The direct reason is clear, it is illegal to do an emergency use experimental vaccine if effective antivirals exist, therefore by Government decree, they DO NOT exist. And your a terroir for saying they do.
            ( Your life means nothing to them, and millions of dead is just a statistic.

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      • #
        shortie of greenbank

        lots of flying pigs in that dream.

        Not saying it wouldn’t be good if at least some of them were to happen just I am far to sceptical of government ‘capture’ by too many extremists to see any reasonable ending for this.

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      • #
        Graham Richards

        As soon as the Delta variant is under control, Beijing will release another more deadly variant.

        They will not give up!

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        • #
          Forrest Gardener

          … and what ever happened to alpha, beta and gamma? Are they no longer a risk?

          50

          • #
            Analitik

            The Lambda variant is the real risk since it is actually resistant to the antibodies generated by the vaccines (both the gene therapy spike protein ones we have and the good ol’ whole virus vaccines made by the Chinese). The Delta vaccine isn’t but the speed of entry into cells allows less time for the antibodies to swarm in to an infection to help suppress it.

            If mass vaccinations continue then there will be sufficient selection pressure to favour the Lambda variant. In the short term, this is a good thing for the unvaccinated as it is not as infectious as the Delta one but then those vaccinated will start seeing far less effect (rather than somewhat less effect with Delta). The longer term issue is if it further mutates to achieve both high resistance to vaccine antibodies AND higher infectiousness.

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        Mantaray

        Jo. The key here is that the outcome is a 99.7% survival rate for those who get the virus in their system = this is no big deal. = stop panicking.

        We’ve also seen two real-time live trials of the Delta strain.; the first in Townsville / Magnetic island where the Delta Positive Brisbane-based woman had more than 900 contacts (said Qld Health) for NO TRANSMISSIONS, and the second the Cairns Taxi-Driver with the hundreds of passengers for NO TRANSMISSION. Then there were the three Deltas in Byron Shire…..

        “In the aftermath of three infectious people staying in the Far North Coast area earlier in the month, surprisingly, NSW Health has to date reported no new cases of COVID-19 in the Byron Shire, or broader Northern Rivers.”

        I’m calling BS on the confected Delta panic. I’m also telling everyone that the feds had it right with their tracking app not being activated until you’d been within 1.5 netres of a person for AT LEAST !5 MINUTES = been stuck at home with them, mostly.

        30m,000 infections per day in Britain, and no squealing. What’s different here?

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        • #

          Mantaray — the UK has a lot more natural immunity than Australia and NZ as well as more vax. The first gen vaccines don’t seem to be equivalent for immunity. At least 10% of the UK have already had covid and they’ve had 50 times the deaths (so they’ve already removed some of the people and genes that are high risk.)

          As for no transmissions in some instances — look up the K number. This is a cluster spreader. That’s is exactly what we expect. For every superspreader there are four who don’t spread much.

          Given that people caught covid from “fleeting passage” — obviously the 15 minute rule is dead in the water with Delta.

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      • #
        Damon

        Fantasyland.

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        Philip

        That’s brilliant Jo. Should be a meme

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    COVID-19 Vaccines are less effective against Delta, large study finds

    “Large study finds Pfizer-BioNTech efficacy ebbed over time”

    “When vaccinated people did get infected with delta, they were shown to have similar levels of virus in their bodies as those who hadn’t had shots. (note shots- plural)

    This suggests that vaccinating large portions of a population might not protect those who don’t get inoculated, casting doubt on the idea of achieving herd immunity.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-18/covid-vaccines-are-less-effective-against-delta-in-u-k-study

    This is my surprised face after a recent wash.

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    • #

      Seems that Moderna works better against Delta, but not good enough.

      The responsibles in the gouvernements unfortunately have lost their interest to look for alternatives to these leaky mRNA and vector “vaxxes”
      They believe it’s the solution while it is the probleme.

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      Dean Gardiner

      Even that study is pretty much out of date. As new data rolls in with this current Delta wave it seems the vaccines are pretty much useless at preventing spread. Israel are >90% fully vaccinated in people over 50. They started rolling out the third booster shot to everyone several weeks ago.
      None of it has worked. Their infection rate just surpassed their first wave Alpha numbers. Infections per 100,000 people are roughly the same vaccinated or unvaccinated. Efficacy is around 20%.
      It seems that the vaccines only appeared to be effective first wave because they were rolled out in panic as the wave hit the peak, so the vaccine rollout correlated with the waves declining.
      You don’t need to be a virologist, read scientific papers or try and unravel the obfuscations in the clinical trial data. We have real world data rolling in every day from this mass drug experiment. Hopefully this vaccine madness will burn away as quickly as the vaccine efficacy.

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        Sceptical Sam

        And, now you should tell us about the death rates, Dean.

        You know, the difference between the unvaccinated and the vaccinated (2 x injections).

        Dig around, the data is available.

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    reformed warmist of logan

    Good morning Jo,
    Clearly Gladys’ reaction was too slow, by at least 10-14 days.
    But equally-clearly, New Zealand has the luxury of an even-more reduced daily population flow with other nations (than Australia has), so although at first blush their swift reaction seems right for them, it does not automatically follow that it is a template that is best for all Australian states & Territories.
    I must prefix this by saying every life is important, and every death tragic, but the big picture still needs to be returned to at some point?!
    People keep brushing aside that the Delta variant, though more contagious, is also less lethal.
    In the 20 months since the start of this pandemic (some may say panic-demic), there have been approx. 220 million births world-wide, 90 million deaths, and 4.5 million Covid deaths (Source World-o-meters.info). Here’s a sobering thought, why has there been so much emphasis (& economic paralysis) focused on just 5% of deaths?
    Somewhere between the over-reaction of our Qld. Premier, & the slow-reaction of our southern Premier, there needs to be some sort of measured compromise found in the coming weeks & months.
    Kind regards, reformed Warmist of Logan

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      WXcycles

      … there needs to be some sort of measured compromise found in the coming weeks & months.

      There is, it’s to slowly and partially open between 70% and 80% vaccinated. But if the majority say the virus threat is their highest priority, Premiers are going to continue to make this their priority. I read some clown on a blog yesterday claiming to be a doctor and asserted that Delta strain doesn’t exist.

      That’s the sort of deliberate deceptions and lying involved. So until the situation becomes clearer, caution is essential. I’m deeply suspicious of the anti-vax propaganda pouring out of every tawdry click-baiting blogging orifice on the internet at present. Our google-ads driven internet is the greatest mass-lying propagation machine ever created so don’t expect lucid understandings that aren’t based on a series of interconnected lies. It doesn’t matter what source you read these days, lying and political and financial agendas dominate everything. They’re pretty much one and the same.

      But at some point trust is necessary though and that’s what people are doing, trusting governments more. They better be approximately right.

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        Ian

        “I read some clown on a blog yesterday claiming to be a doctor and asserted that Delta strain doesn’t exist.”

        But that is par for the course in many blogs. “Vaccines contain 99% graphene oxide” “Vaccination will alter your DNA” “5G causes Covid-19” “Trump is coming back on August 13”.

        There’s all sorts of looney ludicrously unbelievable rubbish on the internet, most of it so obviously ridiculous that you’d wonder how anyone in their right mind could believe it. But many do,

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        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          Indeed. Reading blog posts is as good as an inoculation from stupidity.

          My strategy is to read what they say, and either search for other information that supports the claim or refutes the claim. It’s an education either way. Or to hold it as a mental note and revisit the question every couple months to see how that claim is unfolding.

          So far most claims come to nothing. But some actually do have some validity to them.

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        Forrest Gardener

        Once upon a time I would have said that governments and public servants better get it right because they would inevitably face consequences if they got it wrong, but now?

        What public servant has ever suffered any adverse consequences for maladministration? What government has been voted out because of a screw up unless the media have turned on them?

        Rhetoric aside, what information is available about how current testing distinguishes between the delta variant and previous variants?

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          Greg Cavanagh

          Greetings Forrest.

          First: Yes, the government are more stupid than the people. That’s been demonstrated over and over. They would do everybody a favor if they just gave advice and let us make up our minds.

          Second: I’ve not seen any of any significance. After the Gillard and Rudd debacle, the party lost the next election. That’s the only instance I can think of.

          Third. It has been stated officially that the current testing can’t distinguish between any of the coronavirus’s out there. And it may even find positives for other viruses as well, not just the coronavirus. Then there’s false positives for no apparent reason.

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      OriginalSteve

      I was looking at ourworldindata.org and I noticed that on around July 1 in most of the countries I looked at, there was a sharp uptick in cases very close to that date.Iceland was the standout…looked like the democrat “vote” in the USA…

      So either the virus can tell time, or testing miraculously got better, or the memo went out to create the illusion of a seriously bad state of affairs.

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        RickWill

        It was the winter surge we are constantly reminded of. Covid just loves winters!

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        • #
          Gary Simpson

          July is Summertime in Iceland.

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            David A

            Exactly, the surge in the UK is out of phase as well. One year ago the UK had fewer cases, fewer fatalities less natural immunity ( much better then the vaccines) and zero vaccines. What will the winter bring.

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              RickWill

              One year ago the UK had fewer cases, fewer fatalities less natural immunity

              But the mother of all lockdowns. Look at the size of football crowds in 2020 versus 2021. Every football match in the UK is a major spreader event. The exposure to Covid now in the UK compared to 2021 is infinitely higher.

              The daily cases is flat at 28K and deaths running at high double digits. That is a death rate around 0.3% compared with the overall Covid average in the UK of 2%. Almost a 7-fold reduction in deaths.

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                David A

                Most transmission is at home.
                The death rate was lower one year ago.
                The percentage from the first wave was horrible due to horrible policies and zero treatments.
                Stopping giving 100 percent credit to the vaccine.

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    Michael Rodent

    While New Zealand locking down quickly may theoretically shorten the extent of lockdown, the issue facing NZ (and predominantly Auckland which is the seat of the Delta outbreak) is an incompetent Government and Ministry of Health.

    Vaccination (for those that want it) is pathetically slow and it was announced yesterday from Jacinda Adern’s “podium of truth” that 60% of frontline Police had not been had not been vaccinated because of lack of vaccine supply.

    We are now faced with mass testing due to Delta incidents appearing in local schools and hospitals. Despite having 18 months to sort out system improvements the Ministry of Health have done nothing. People were queuing yesterday for 9 hours to get tested and then turned away. Vaccination centres are closed. People are queuing today from 1am to get tested and lines are kilometres long with the testing venues still to open at 8.30. Supermarkets have empty shelves – people are crying out for baby formula.

    Despite the spin from the “student politician” PM the quick lockdown seems to becoming unstuck by an incompetent Government.

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      shortie of greenbank

      maybe missing the baby formula isn’t such a bad thing considering what is in them. Many contain vegetable oils etc in place of natural fats the body would use to make the brain and other important cells from. Anti-vaxx seem to think that only vaccines could drive autism numbers up but consider early life changes such as poor access to brain building fats, highly inflammatory diets and other things like early use of anti-biotics, deliberate lower vit d levels (slip, slop slap) no wonder when looked for autism is in the noise in most data for vaccines.

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      John in NZ

      Well said Michael. The incompetent government is driving me nuts. The vaccine rollout has been too slow. We will go in and out of lock-down forever.

      We had our groceries (Countdown) delivered last night. We had, among other things, ordered milk but it wasn’t delivered because the supermarket had run out. Crazy panic buying.

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        shortie of greenbank

        Gibraltar went into lockdown after extreme community spread (about 3% of the population at the time were infected) after reaching 115% double vaccinated. Take from that what you will but it indicates that vaccination does not stop lockdowns, not in the slightest.

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          David A

          Look for that cogent comment about Gibraltar to be ignored.
          Just as Israel is ignored.
          Just as falling vaccine antibody levels, while non neutralizing antibodies continue, is ignored.
          Just as growing adverse events are whitewashed.
          Just as VERY EFFECTIVE antivirals are ignored or demonized.
          Just as lockdown harms are ignored, and very poorly tracked.
          Just as all other reasons for case load and hospitalizations to drop, like natural immunity and seasonal factors, is ignored so that failing vaccines get all credit, when it happens.

          So if the most vulnerable in many societies already died of Covid, the remaining most vulnerable got vaccinated very early, why are cases rising in most nations, and hospitalizations are following?

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            Serp

            I’ve yet to see an exception to the rule that countries which through their small populations have achieved near full vaccination in a short period subsequently experienced bigger outbreaks. Seychelles, Malta, Iceland, Gibraltar and Israel quickly come to mind; there’ll be others.

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              Sceptical Sam

              So, tell us about the death rates of those vaccinated populations cf the unvaccinated state.

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          RickWill

          Gibraltar went into lockdown after extreme community spread

          What evidence do you have that Gibraltar is in “lockdown”?

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        RickWill

        ordered milk but it wasn’t delivered because the supermarket had run out. Crazy panic buying.

        But did you get toilet paper?

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    anne simon

    Good analogy with the house fire, but why are they repressing the use of Ivermectin ? CAN’T.TRUST.EM.

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    And then there’s Sweden.
    No lockdowns, no mask mandates. Economy mostly undisturbed. Kids went to school. Poor response initially to place recovering COVID patients into care homes, but they learned from their early mistake. ~50% of the population vaccinated.

    https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/se

    Bruce

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      FarmerDoug2

      And with high rate of infection they got good immunity.
      Or did they have a high rate of infection ?
      Doug

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      Ian

      “And then there’s Sweden”.

      Indeed there is. With 1,114,278 cases of Covid_19 and 14,662 deaths in a population of 10.3 million. With a fall in the economy of 8.6% in the April-June quarter, admittedly better than many EU countries but not significantly better than the other Nordic countries. With an unemployment rate of 9% which is the highest in the Nordic countries.

      Compared with Norway which has 5.4 million people, 65,547 COVID-19 cases and 592 deaths so far and a GDP of 1.8% Sweden isn’t looking too good at all

      Compared with Denmark which has 5.8 million people, 333,815 COVID-19 cases and 2562 deaths so far and an estimated GDP of 6,5% Sweden isn’t looking too good at all

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        RickWill

        Something that a large number of deaths converts to is respect for the virus. I figure most people in Sweden have been touched by the virus; maybe like New York, India and Peru.

        Also Sweden case numbers are still quite high but death toll is very low now that a large number have been vaccinated. There has not been the massive post-vaccination surge in cases like UK and Israel for example that have celebrated freedom.

        Sweden still have largely empty football stadiums. By comparison UK are celebrating their freedom and football crowds are at capacity. The celebrations have created a rapid increase in Covid cases. Sweden remains subdued.

        The problem in Australia is that only a few community groups and some hospital staff have direct experience dealing with Covid.

        This site demonstrates the lack of respect some people still have for the virus and relentless replication and death rate.

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        • #
          Analitik

          Actually, you have a “lack of respect” for the replication rate of the virus leading to your inflated death rate estimates

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        David A

        All of the economic numbers would have been far worse with lockdowns. And many nations did no better then Sweden with cases and deaths. What is so infuriating is the deaths could have been reduced 90 to 95 percent, with safe antivirals and protecting the vulnerable.

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          RickWill

          could have been reduced 90 to 95 percent, with safe antivirals and protecting the vulnerable.

          Yeh right – an unsubstantiated claim with no evidence to back it up. Even the vaccination purveyors are only claiming 90% efficacy.

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            Analitik

            Yeah, doctors actively saving lives like the FLCCC Alliance and The BIRD Group have no idea what they are doing. Zero evidence that they can understand the effects of the drugs they administer and the recovery of their patients.

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            David A

            The extra five percent was protecting the very vulnerable and the overall includes exercise, fresh air and sunshine, deep breathing and correct vitamins.

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    Peter Fitzroy

    As of 1pm Thursday the cluster of cases has grown to 20, and it is looking like the lockdown is to be extended (Stuff.nz), NZ are confident that the they have it under control, given the speed at which they identified the first case (a returnee from Sydney).

    This proves that it was the better decision, like Western Australia, and Unlike New South Wales.

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      Very similar to the current ACT outbreak though we started lockdown following a single individual with no known linkage hence likely another spreader in the community. So far lockdown is holding contagion as expected given exposure prior to identification of the individual. Will find out in about 5 minutes if this is holding.

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      Analitik

      Don’t celebrate so early – 1 to 4 to 10 to 21 is not a declining case count.
      1 + 3 + 6 + 5 does show a decline in rate but it is far from definitive that the NZ lockdown will work

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        Analitik

        sorry, should have been 1 + 3 + 6 + 10

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      • #

        12 today and 16 yesterday (after the 21. I think you are missing some days there but using your numbers and mine mashed together

        1 3 6 10 21 16 12

        it should go down since the mass exposures at 2 schools (and which are the biggest outbreak links) have been, hopefully, fully assessed and account for the peak values.

        Not celebrating as I am in lock down but the numbers look good here.

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        • #

          reading back I think you meant NZ. The number series I gave is very close to the ACT anyway so I’ll leave it there.

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            Analitik

            Yes, I was answering PF so referring to NZ
            So the ACT new case count sequence is 5 + 2 + 2 + 19 + 17 + 22 + 16 + 12 (from Google) which is a downward trend. Canberrans are obviously a compliant lot.

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    Broadie

    Dear Jo,

    Let me expand your analogy

    Imagine a virus is like a house fire. When the flames start, we don’t say, “it’s just a curtain, it’s only 1% of the house.”

    Now imagine there is as you say:

    This may seem like an esoteric discussion to people in places where elimination seems impossible, but in the Bioweapons Cold War Era, we still need to get this right. There are 1600 more bat viruses in the freezer at Wuhan

    Would the best practise be to stop the arsonist?

    I do agree with the sudden sharp lock down. The insanity of watching those from an infected area escape to safe places in Holiday homes and with friends and relatives is insane by any measure.

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      RightOverLabour

      I understand why people flee to holidayhomes. Being cooped up in the city for extended periods possibly in an apartment is psychologically devastating. Going to a Batch means more fresh air, fewer people contact, less chance of picking it up and better psychological well-being overall. I live rurally, lockdown has no impact on my mental health as I have lots to do and don’t feel imprisoned. There is a small chance of taking the virus with you but I’d say the risk is still very small.

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        Broadie

        All for fresh air and sunshine and totally against the idea of locking people in their tiny apartments, especially in temperate regions during the pneumonia and influenza season. That experiment has been completed in early 2020, people die and their lives are destroyed.

        My point is that if these health experts were truly fighting a dangerous pandemic, the last thing you would do would be to give those infected a deadline to spread the virus.

        And,if you wanted to spread the virus you would do what these people did:

        Dario Nardella, Mayor of Florence, Italy, on February 1 initiated a ‘Hug a Chinese’ campaign on Twitter.

        or, Nancy Pelosi in China Town and Snopes had trouble burying that one.

        What’s True

        Nancy Pelosi visited San Francisco’s Chinatown to encourage tourism there three weeks after the Trump administration imposed a partial travel restriction on persons entering the U.S. from China.
        What’s False

        However, Trump’s travel restriction did not fully “close [the U.S.] border to China,” and archives do not document Pelosi’s Twitter account having posted and then deleted a video of her Chinatown event.

        or, the woman wiping electronic devices in a store with a liquid from a bottle, Video now unavailable.

        PS: Do you rent out your Batch? And is it near Rotorua as I hear sulphur kills many human pathogens?

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          Greg in NZ

          Please, gentlemen and/or ladies – ‘bach’ as in a small house for a bachelor (single male) versus a ‘batch’ of wine for hens (single females, who often congregate in million-dollar McMansion baches owned by bachelors’ parents) 🙂

          Am only half-an-hour’s drive from Roto-Vegas’ sulphuric hot pools (sweet joy! hot water bubbling up from the ground! bliss…) but driving is discouraged unless ‘essential’, and all the hot pools in my neighbourhood are closed because of the Lockdown Delta Blues – now a 7-day quarantine for ALL the country.

          I’m gonna go and put on some Albert Collins’ ‘Iceman’ REAL boogie blues…

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        OldOzzie

        One lives and learns on Jo’s Blog – I knew Thongs were Jandals in NZ, but did not know Batch was a Holiday Home in NZ

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          John in NZ

          In the North Island, it is a Batch.

          In the South Island it is a Crib.

          It is amazing how in country as young as NZ there can be regional language differences.

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    Penguinite

    Thanks for your synopsis @ 3.1!
    They need an intermediate answer to fill the gap between vaccination and effect so point “3. We may have to use antivirals in combination with vaccines to stop the leaking.” is invertible and urgent. Sadly Governments are now in too, antagonistically, deep won’t back down for fear of loss of face!

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    Zigmaster

    Jo
    Living in Western Australia has clearly helped fortify your belief that lockdowns short and sharp work and that’s the best way. Try the fantastic short and sharp lockdowns in Victoria now totalling over 200 days worth. It’s not just the short sharp lockdowns ( that continue for months) but the periods in between are almost just as bad because the fear of lockdowns hang over you like a sword of Damacles making any planning of holidays or weddings or birthdays etc impossible.The damage they wreak to small business and the economy will take years to rectify and the sense of helplessness they create leads to health outcomes as dire as if not more than can be inflicted by Covid. The mental health issues it creates especially on children is very real , very widespread and likely to be long lasting.
    No doubts in my mind the failure to properly investigate anti virals and other management solutions has been the most obvious shortcoming of the Covid response. But to just use Lockdowns is I think disastrous.I think that it creates a fools paradise creating little pockets of utopia you can never leave or return to. It creates fears and mistrust of your fellow Australians and it creates a claustrophobic feeling that you cannot travel or interact with the rest of the world.
    If you haven’t had the lived experience of 200 plus days of Lockdown you cannot understand the fear that is conveyed by the Premiers “ Go hard , go fast “ mantra.
    I definately feel that a let it rip herd immunity response ( with protections for elderly and vulnerable) appears in the medium to longer term a far better solution. While this may lead to premature deaths of some Octogenarians the total outcome for the majority of the younger people will be far better.
    At times of war we have been prepared to sacrifice our youngsters for the betterment of the whole society but in times of a pandemic we have not been prepared to sacrifice our seniors for the same outcome. It makes no sense.

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      Annie

      Agreed Zigmaster. Well said, you are conveying very succinctly how I feel.

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      Bright Red

      Totally agree with you on this Zigmaster

      “At times of war we have been prepared to sacrifice our youngsters for the betterment of the whole society but in times of a pandemic we have not been prepared to sacrifice our seniors for the same outcome. It makes no sense.”

      This is a war but our leaders and so called experts do not have a clue about how to fight it.

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      Forrest Gardener

      I agree zigmaster, but I personally wouldn’t want to be the one responsible for letting the genie out of the bottle.

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      hasbeen

      A Vic. mate just wrote that the worst part of any Victorian 7 day lock down, is the first 28 days.

      Sound fair?

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      Peter Fitzroy

      you are assuming 100% take up of the sharman’s cure – how will that happen?

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      RickWill

      I definately feel that a let it rip herd immunity response

      Fortunately it is not your call. No country has done that for a good reason. It would lead to absolute chaos as has been observed where the hospitals got overrun; notably India and Peru.

      It appears that Taiwan and maybe Vietnam were alert to the potential threat China’s takeover of the UN would achieve.

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    RightOverLabour

    I am in NZ in Auckland. I posted this yesterday on our fine freedom of speech blog https://ysb.co.nz/

    I am starting to think that the best strategy for getting through the covid issue is just to open the borders, get rid of MIQ, let the majority of the population get Delta, which is mild for most anyway, and hand out Ivermectin like lollies. The advantage is everyone would get covid antibodies, we would not need booster shots and our economy would get going again. Yes some will get very sick. But the majority would get over this and be fairly resistant to new mutations. Stopping this mRNA experiment might reduce the number of mutations any way, and then traditional vaccines like Novovax can be trialed and tested correctly for the next generation.

    Further, I believe that Jacinda Arderne selectively uses the pandemic for her sole purpose which is to remain in power and control people. I don’t believe a word the government says, will not get vaccinated (except possibly Novovax ) and remain opposed to using a health crisis for political gain.

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      Analitik

      Terrific post. I’ve been saying Australia needs to take exactly this same action, except to use antivirals rather than the gene therapy spike protein vaccines, to get on with life rather than cowering in fear.

      BTW Novavax is still only a spike protein vaccine only it doesn’t use gene therapy to make your body produce them. Instead, the spike proteins are cultured and directly injected in to you. You aren’t subjected to gene therapy but you still face the potential damage from the spike proteins migrating from the injection site into the bloodstream and your body still only has a single reference to respond to rather than learning about the other portions of the virus

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        shortie of greenbank

        Novavax is more likely to remain close to the injection site, depending on the competency of the vaccinator. MRNA vaccines do not remain local, as is seen from the FOI request in Japan. The lipid nano transports would ensure that anyway.

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          Vicki

          Interesting that you mention the competency of the vaccinator. I have observed in the captions in the media the most diverse (& appalling) injection procedures.

          This has made me wonder if it could partly explain the variation in reactions to the vaccines.

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            Custer Van Cleef

            Yes I’ve seem some commentary questioning aspiration during the vaccine injection process — should the syringe be pulled back a bit before the final plunge?
            It’s to do with checking if you hit a blood vessel or not.

            Presumably, the Vax Designers don’t intend the engineered nanoparticles to go directly into the bloodstream … but they are rather tiny — wouldn’t want a blood vessel to get nicked as the syringe goes in …

            It all raises another question: how likely is a mistake by an “injector”, even with good training?

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          Analitik

          What makes you say that the spike proteins in Novavax are less likely to migrate than the lipid capsules containing the mRNA sequence?
          Novavax say the spike protein tails will attract each other so they form circular clusters. Are these significantly larger than the lipid capsules?

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            shortie of greenbank

            the vaccine is supposed to be given outside of areas with substantive blood flows and not easily form these bonds elsewhere, the lipids can traverse through the body quite easily (hence why ‘cholesterol’, or in reality the lipids that carry cholesterol are so important as the body has pathways to expediate transport). Another aspect of the lipids used in the MRNAs is that they are given a ‘charge’ which is unusual for lipids in general. This is part of the reason the Japanese data indicated the most heavily affected areas were the ovaries and bone marrow rather than a more even spread.

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              Analitik

              The mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccines are also injected intramuscular to keep them in the region of the injection site. Testing is needed to validate the Novavax concept and the huge delay suggests they have encountered unexpected difficulties.

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              • #
                shortie of greenbank

                from what I can tell some of these are government/regulatory. they have been given a tougher run to market than fizzer etc.

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          David A

          Only 25 percent of the injected spike protein from the vaccines remains at the injection site.

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        Vicki

        Analitik, this is what had been worrying me about Novavax.

        I had been hoping that Novavax would be an acceptable vaccine, although I always thought that anti-virals were the appropriate protection, taken early, given that no vaccine will be totally effective.

        Now, news of persistent delays in production, and even a report of contaminated product, has been discouraging. So, given, as you say, that the spike protein is still a constituent, I am more in favour of the anti-virals at this stage.

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      Ronin

      “Further, I believe that Jacinda Arderne selectively uses the pandemic for her sole purpose which is to remain in power and control people.”

      Even more proof of the old saying, ‘never let a crisis go to waste’.

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    Analitik

    This would the worst post you have ever made, Jo.

    Unlike a house fire, COVID-19 is not a highly unlikely, discrete event. It is something that isn’t going away from the rest of the world so it will keep happening on a regular basis unless New Zealand adopts autarky and totally isolates forever.

    A better analogy is the wasps that afflict citrus trees infecting your lemon tree. If you have neighbors with their own citrus trees that are infected, your tree will never stay clear of them and you manage the condition with sprays. You would be wanting to build an airtight greenhouse over your tree.

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      Analitik

      Plus you imply that the the gene therapy spike protein vaccines are a good way to prevent COVID-19 outbreaks when your own previous posts show that they won’t

      What has happened to you? You act like someone with a severe childhood trauma, unable to face a situation.

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        Vicki

        This virus has opened fault lines in our psyche.

        I am constantly amazed how fear is so easily generated. I felt it myself when the Wuhan outbreak started spread lay to Italy & then elsewhere. I knew then, it would probably be an unstoppable pandemic.

        Thank god for the courageous virologists and epidemiologists who put the facts out on to the internet & put it into perspective, together with information about anti-virals like Ivermectin.

        Yet, despite copious info which allows perspective, fear is still generated by the constant media and government hysteria. It is more infectious than the virus!

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      TdeF

      The world has had many pandemics before. The black death was a regular event which killed up to half the people each time. Imagine that in your life. And we learned, those who survived, how to deal with it. Isolate. Like New Zealand. Because we can.

      Now for the first time in history we know what to do. Isolate and then fight back. But we also know the black death came with rats, malaria came from mosquitoes, flu is a virus.

      And Louis Pasteur invented innoculation with a similar pestilence, using only brutal logic and observation.

      Now we can see our demons. We can see the Anthrax spores. And understanding smallpox and how it moves, we have hounded it from the planet. We could see malaria amoebae in the blood.

      And now we can see viruses, somethings previous generations could not see.

      It is astounding that we have invented vaccines, using the same high technology which was used to create this killer. And we know who did it. France and Dr. Fauci in the US knew all about it.

      And while I know everyone fears vaccinations, most people have had them for many things and suffered no harm. TB for example is not the eternal killer it was. We can not only save people, we have eliminated it. And polio. I have experienced both in my family. You do not want these things in your world.

      Australia does not have rabies, which is due entirely to our care at customs. And Hendra was stopped. We quarantine imported horses for the Melbourne Cup but we do not stable them at Flemington whereas Daniel Andrews put Wuhan Flu people in very centre of Melbourne, something beyond my comprehension unless he wanted this.

      So New Zealand is doing the right thing. As in the blitz, do not wander around when bombs are falling and live to fight another day. But lockdown should be a calculated tool used only in extremes and only where it makes sense. Curfew is a useless and brutal idea from Daniel Andrews, not the police or medical advisers. Because he can.

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        shortie of greenbank

        The simple aspect of a counter argument against your statement on diseases like TB and Polio is that vaccines were introduced when numbers were already historically low. High incidence and a working vaccine for said disease just doesn’t seem to happen. The driver for this change is either natural die-down or our own knowledge in other treatments such as improved hygiene etc.

        Measles is an interesting case where often you might hear of an outbreak in an area with high anti-vaxx sentiment (Noosa or Byron for example). The blame for initial community spread might be return from overseas but the most likely reason for spread is probably vaccination as the MMR vaccine contains still active measles material that can, and is well recognised, escape to infect the injected and be just as bad as the normal infection. This will spread, obviously, to the unvaccinated but would not exist without the vaccinated introducing it.

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        Analitik

        Vaccines have historically been tested for at least 5 years (more often a decade) before widespread public use. These gene therapy spike protein vaccines had about 3 months of testing before being given emergency application approvals.

        That might be good enough for you but I see it as an experiment with no liability protection to the vaccinated from the governments nor the pharmaceutical companies.

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          redress

          And Analitik,..the inventor of the mRNA technology now appears to be advocating that the “vaccinations” be stopped before any further damage is done…..
          This short 10 minute video is well worth watching.

          https://rumble.com/vkfz1v-the-vaccine-causes-the-virus-to-be-more-dangerous.html

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            Analitik

            The really big thing about Dr Robert Malone’s concerns is that he was an advocate for the mRNA vaccines and thought they were safe. It was only after he was vaccinated himself (with Moderna), even after already having CoViD, and suffered side effects that he began discussing the issue with colleagues and looking at adverse reaction reports and this is what led him to have concerns about all the spike protein vaccines.

            Many portray him as an anti-vaxxer or a poor loser for not getting recognition. This is patently false when you look at the timeline of his views and experiences.

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        Vicki

        TDeF.
        Unfortunately, corona viruses do NOT succumb to vaccines. Virologists having been trialling corona vaccines for over 25 years & have not been able to develop an effective vaccine.

        Viruses in general pose a particular problem for virologists. This is why an effective vaccine has never been produced for HIV AIDS. What they successfully developed was a triple drug therapy that is able to suppress the development of AIDS if taken continually.

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          Analitik

          Spot on. Coronavirus vaccines have historically produced either a weak, fading response or else incited cytokine storms when the vaccinated get a real infection.

          The ineffectiveness of the Chinese vaccines that use a deactivated virus so how difficult it is to not damage the coronavirus virons so much when deactivating them that they do not resemble the virus closely enough for an effective lasted response. The spike protein vaccines were the hope to avoid this conundrum but they suffer from being single point of response and the spike modifications also seem to have made them different enough that the response is not as good as hoped, particularly with the variants.

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        RickWill

        Curfew is a useless and brutal idea from Daniel Andrews, not the police or medical advisers. Because he can.

        Brett Sutton has now taken ownership of curfews. The evidence is clear from last year that they dramatically reduced illegal activities that were much easier to police. The situation with the homeless sex worker in St Kilda probably rang the alarm bells that resulted in the current curfew. The outbreak around that worker festered for a number of days before the worker ended up in hospital. No one involved in those activities is going to come forward for testing until they have severe symptoms; service provider or receiver.

        Curfews make literally no difference to law-abiding people. No one is going out to exercise in sunlight after 9pm or before 5am.

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          Analitik

          Brett Sutton has now taken ownership of curfews

          Good. Hopefully Sutton will be thrown out of his bureaucratic post when some sensibility is restored.

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        • #

          “Brett Sutton has now taken ownership of curfews”

          are you sure?

          his usual answer is “l dont recall”

          LOL

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        Peter C

        TB for example is not the eternal killer it was. We can not only save people, we have eliminated it.

        Not quite.

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          Analitik

          Not even close in many non-first world countries so we got a small number of cases each year before international travel was shut down.

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  • #
    TdeF

    As in NZ, every single outbreak of this virus has come from overseas! Every lockdown is a sign of failure in quarantine. Qurantine by the way was 40 days, not 14. We knew this from the days before vaccines.

    The virus has a limited life and isolated, disappears forever.

    Surely that is the one problem which needs to be solved, not more lockdowns which can eliminate the virus and then our border security fails again. Daniel Andrews caused over 800 deaths with his handing out 2am contracts to incompetent friends or we in Australia would be in exactly the same position as NZ. Short, sharp but measured responses.

    And Andrews has enforced the most brutal lockdowns, over six months of it.

    Even country towns far from Melbourne which has 83% of Victoria’s population and zero infections.

    His latest 9pm-5am curfew is far worse than London in the Blitz and inexplicable except for a power hungry tyrant. The social cost is beyond belief. Because he can. He has one zone, Victoria. And our dictator loves the power his friends in China have given him. We are being beaten into submission and even the police are objecting.

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      WXcycles

      Qurantine by the way was 40 days, not 14.

      Exactly, it was called “6 weeks”.

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      shortie of greenbank

      the virus should be detectable within 1-5 days of infection, no need for 14 days if the testing was truly accurate.

      As was mentioned early on, Christmas Island for isolation this would have limited spread by security guards moonlighting as UBER drivers etc.

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      Scissor

      Once it gets out, animal reservoirs make spreading difficult to control. NZ will probably need to isolate for a long long time if zero cases is the goal, especially in light of the vaccine immunity declining over a very short time. There is no question that vaccination will do more harm than the disease for some period of time. Difficult choices.

      In Michigan, a testing showed that 30% of wild deer were infected. They probably were infected by contact with house cats. We know that bats, ferrets and other animals can contract and carry the virus. Can migrating birds carry it?

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      Serp

      I doubt Dan of the lost OBOR still has friends in China.

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    Harves

    Imagine a virus is like a house fire. When the flames start, we don’t say, “it’s just a curtain, it’s only 1% of the house.”

    Now imagine you had a house where every time your curtains caught fire, you knew that only 1%of your house would be damaged, and this was the part of your house most likely to be damaged by other hazards anyway. And that once your curtains caught fire, 99.99% of the time you’d not even notice them burning and they’d put themselves out. I reckon I’d let my curtains burn and then not have to worry about them catching fire again.
    One thing I wouldn’t do is waste time testing the rest of my house, just in case it was burning – perhaps setting a standard that if it was slightly warm, then I’d classify it as ‘burning’.

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      TdeF

      That’s a brick house. Now try a house of straw.

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      • #
        shortie of greenbank

        the curtains are probably more expensive than the straw house, you have already lost the curtains just rebuild the house again.

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        Annie

        A properly built strawbale house uses the bales heavily compressed and very well sealed; very unlikely to burn any more easily than a more usual structure.

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        Forrest Gardener

        I see what you did there. Very clever.

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        David A

        TdeF , do you deny that the majority of the population handles the virus with little to no problem?
        ( That is what the brick house analogy referred to)

        And an excellent analogy it is. Instead governments around the world ignored the water, the antivirals, took the most flammable materials and put them in the fire (seniors) pored polluted water on everybody, ( leaky vaccines) even though most were in no danger from the fire, and instructed everybody on different ways to start new fires. ( mutational pressure from the vaccines,) and hindered the most effective fire fighters (the exposed recovered with natural immunity)

        “ Only the government can create a sand shortage in a desert.”

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  • #
    Antoine D'Arche

    There is no Delta variant. There is only the section of code you choose to read. This is like in the Matrix – there is no spoon. This whole thing has been overblown from the start in a HuGE way.
    You can’t establish cause and effect from 1 lockdown to virus free/ lockdown free life. Other variables?
    I don’t care how many PAYG people say lockdowns are ok/ good whatever. When someone else is paying your bills, why wouldn’t you want to be barred from going to work?
    The “vaccines” are only a benefit to 1) those people at risk of death from Covid, and 2) the people who manage ICU resources. Oh and the ever more wealthy pharma companies.
    We either accept it as a persistent resp pathogen and move on, or sink into ever more debt/ loss of freedoms etc etc etc. I am sick of the constant barrage of BS about this.

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      Forrest Gardener

      I really wish I knew. But since when did the testing develop the ability to distinguish between variants?

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    WXcycles

    One thing I wouldn’t do is waste time testing the rest of my house, just in case it was burning – perhaps setting a standard that if it was slightly warm, then I’d classify it as ‘burning’.

    Oh come on, the point of testing is to detect if the virus is circulating and if detected, to stymie the spread quickly before it can get away. Plus to test if suppression via isolation has worked or is working. Another is continuous sampling to monitor. It’s as cheap as chips to do that, compared to the costs of not doing it and the virus goes undetected.

    My home has three WiFi connected smoke detectors which continuously and quietly do the same thing, and they’re also as cheap as chips, compared to failing to detect a fire. They are also mandated by legislation, and by insurance policies.

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      My home has three WiFi connected smoke detectors which continuously and quietly do the same thing

      QLD?

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      Harves

      Do your detectors advise you that your house is on fire when there is no smoke or flames … and then require that you stop using your house for 14 days … so they can keep testing for smoke and flames?

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    Earl

    “Imagine a virus is like a house fire. When the flames start, we don’t say, “it’s just a curtain, it’s only 1% of the house.”

    If a virus is like a house fire which starts in the curtains then vaccinated or self medicating people are like plastic bags of water sewn onto the curtain in different places. The idea being that the fire burns the plastic releasing the water which inhibits the spread of fire.

    But globally there is no confidence in all the plastic bags of water being sewn into curtains so every room of every house has two ceiling fixtures. One is a fire alarm called the government which at the first sniff of smoke starts screaming out its warning. The other is a sprinkler system called lock down, sort of like a massive plastic bag of water, that assumes one of two forms in response to the government alarm system.

    At the place where the burning curtains are it sprays everything and being totally water logged the residents can not leave the house till they dry out – normally takes 10-14 days. At all the other houses in the street it just starts dripping single random drops which means that all the residents have to stay home so they can change the filling buckets placed underneath to catch the drops. No-one knows how long the bucket changing task will be needed because no-one knows how long the drips will be dripping for or how big the collecting buckets.

    Now if the curtain fire were to occur at one of Bill Gates mansions he would just admit to not liking the curtains anyway and get on with his life.

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    Phillip Charles Sweeney

    Again more evidence that politicians believe that SARS-CoV-2 vaccines exist – that is vaccines that kill the virus and provide “steralising immunity” and so would end the pandemic.

    No such vaccine yet exist.

    Instead, there are EXPERIMENTAL COVID-19 ‘vaccines’ that reduce the symptoms of the disease caused by the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine in some people but do not kill the virus nor prevent transmission of the virus to others.

    These are called “Leaky Vaccines” and their use during a pandemic should be limited to those of high risk – mainly the elderly with other health issues.

    Mass vaccinations with “Leaky Vaccines” during a pandemic only creates a new class of super spreaders who would otherwise be in bed for a week instead of being out and about spreading the virus.

    Mass vaccinations with “Leaky Vaccines” will also drive more mutations of the SARS-CoV-2 virus to more transmissible variants and/or more lethal variants. The Delta variant for example.

    The 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic caused by the H1N1 influenza virus ended in 1920 – Influenza vaccines were not developed until 1938!

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      mobihci

      funny thing about H1N1 is that it never really ended. it come back as swine flu in its latest outing. swine flu was quite a bad one, but that also meant that it was short lived, it was just too successful at killing/forcing isolation its host. this one is not as successful in that it only kills/forces isolation of a small number of its hosts maybe 2% and 5% but will be forever perpetuated by the vaccination drive during its flow through the community.

      they are very serious about animal reservoirs eg – https://www.coronaheadsup.com/europe/spain-mink-infected-with-covid-19-at-galicia-farm/

      but there are many more and most countries wont even look into it until eg pigs with H1N1 force the next great strain. it is probably impossible to determine how many animals are infected with covid-19, what mutations they will cause and how many can infect humans.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    As an alternative to destroying the economy and the social fabric of society, is no one daring enough to:

    1) Protect the vulnerable such as elderly, obese and immune compromised in some form of isolation plus prophylaxis (see my point 2) and even immunisation with the imperfect vaccines.

    2) Universal rollout of Vitamin D and an established HCQ or Ivermectin prophylaxis protocol (or treatment protocol if infected). Plus there are many other off-patent antivirals protocols now.

    3) Non-compulsory vaccines for those who want them.

    4) Co-exist with the virus as we do with all other viruses until a safe vaccine is developed or a more traditional vaccine such as Novavax that doesn’t turn your body into a spike protein factory becomes available. Lock ups were Xi Jinping’s idea, not a Western concept and certainly not compatible with Western Culture until the Left changed the culture to make them seem acceptable.

    Isolation is impossible, even in extreme Nanny States like Australia or NZ where the rights we once traditionally enjoyed have now been stripped away. How did NZ get the current case when it developed long after the incubation period of COVID?

    Is it possible that it could have been acquired from a frozen food item? E.g. an infected person in a food processing factory somewhere outside of NZ coughs on frozen food packaging and then the virus remains in stasis until thawed again.

    Also, the Delta variant is not so deadly outside of the vulnerable groups mentioned above. Is it not a good thing that mass infection with a relatively harmless virus (outside vulnerable groups) is a good thing? It will establish herd immunity much better than a vaccine which targets only one specific protein. A natural antibody defence will target multiple virus proteins or other elements.

    Don’t use mortality figures from India for the Delta (Indian) variant. Eighty to ninety percent of Indians are Vit D deficient and therefore highly vulnerable to covid as I posted yesterday. Unbelievable but true.

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      WXcycles

      Don’t use mortality figures from India for the Delta (Indian) variant. Eighty to ninety percent of Indians are Vit D deficient and therefore highly vulnerable to covid as I posted yesterday. Unbelievable but true.

      I don’t follow your logic. The mortality from the prior Covid19 strains in India was ~146 people per million, and the mortality after 6 months of Delta is ~307 per million. Their mortality rate slightly more then doubled with Delta.

      ~2,750 per million deaths is the more typical mortality rate for Europe, so why does D3 deficiency matter more for Indian mortality figures, where they post delta rate is closer to 1/10th of Europe’s mortality rate, from pre-Delta variants?

      If anything it’s the other way around.

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        David Maddison

        I was just making the point that Indians are more vulnerable than they otherwise would be because of common Vit D deficiency which is known to be associated with greater susceptibility to COVID as Jo has posted before. I shouldn’t have singled out the Delta variant in particular.

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        Analitik

        I don’t follow your logic

        Think of vitamin D deficiency as a comorbodity (like diabetes) for CoViD that greatly increase the mortality rate. Then David’s observation becomes clear.

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        RickWill

        The mortality from the prior Covid19 strains in India was ~146 people per million, and the mortality after 6 months of Delta is ~307 per million.

        These rates are what was recorded. Actual community assessment across a control group of 800,000 people in a long-term nation wide trial for education, health and economic factors give a reliable estimated Covid death toll of 4.7M in India. The actual death rate for Covid is close to 10,000 per million. Antibody testing fits quite well with a death rate of 1% where there is no or limited medical intervention.

        Another large country where hospitals were overrun was Peru and they have a recorded death rate now of 5,902/M. Peru’s counting of the Covid deaths may be more formal than in India. In India they set up open fires to burn the dead:
        https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/b0e0d50ab8631a745b9915868d8fce9a?width=650
        I doubt they were able to keep an accurate official count in India.

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          Analitik

          Serology tests from both of those countries show that CoViD spread far more widely than you suppose so the mortality rate is far lower than you assert.

          Yes, they had a large number of deaths but that was largely because of the ineffectual treatments that caused the hospitals to be overwhelmed – triage inevitably causes a larger number of deaths than otherwise. Peru abandoned ivermectin in November 2020 which then led to the big spike in cases and deaths at end of the year. Indonesia has had the same spike when they abandoned ivermectin earlier this year. India started using ivermectin in April which led to cases and deaths plummeting.

          There is a lesson here if we choose to take it.

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            RickWill

            The antibody testing aligns closely with a death rate of 1% without vaccination. Death rate so far coming out around 0.1% for this vaccinated.

            You can say what you like but cannot produce data that contradicts this figure. Doesn’t matter how many times you say it, it does not alter the very clear evidence.

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              Analitik

              India has a population of close to 1.4 billion so 66% of this is 924 million so you are saying 9.24 million Indians have died from CoVid so far. Wow.

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              • #
                RickWill

                so you are saying 9.24 million Indians have died from CoVid so far

                Not at all. You have to subtract the 31% of the population who have at least one jab. They will also have an anti-body response.

                The best estimate of actual Covid deaths in India is 4.7M. That is 0.35% of the population – knowing 1% die means 35% have had Covid. Add the 31% of the population who have vaccinations gives 66% should show antibodies.

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              • #
                Analitik

                Your excess mortality figure is an upper limit estimate at best and even then would include many deaths caused by reduced health care due to the lockdowns and displacement of workers forced to go home. Plus your 31% of vaccinated is inflated by taking the current level rather than that during the serology tests.

                Rubbery figures.

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          David A

          Prove that the excess mortality rate in India is what you claim. Open Cremations are funerals. They are counted. A photo means exactly zero.

          “ The antibody testing aligns closely with a death rate of 1% without vaccination”

          Nonsense. It is very possible that 500 to 700 million in India were exposed.
          The death count may not be perfect, but in what nation it. You provided zero link to your assertion.

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      Hatrack

      As David points out, we need “… an alternative to destroying the economy and the social fabric of society, ….”

      Ok, here’s my idea. Continue with the current “leaders” running each state as they see fit until (say) 6am December 1, when all restrictions end and life returns to normal. That would give everybody who wants it the opportunity to get the double dose of the vaccine of their choice, and in the meantime, people who don’t want to be vaccinated should be given access to IVM and HCQ, which they can take at their own risk. Some would choose to do nothing.

      Ok, apart from setting a starting date, this is basically what David has already suggested. However, I would take it one step further. In the event of hospitals becoming overwhelmed by covid cases after December 1, vaccinated people would always be given priority because they are the ones who followed the medical advice.

      We need to make people make a decision. We need to have an end. We need a plan.

      We need a leader “daring enough to”.

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        Gary Simpson

        That would also have the advantage of forcing the state premiers to lift their game, as they would all be exposed to view at 6a.m., December the first. What a contest to view.

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      • #
        Bright Red

        Hatrack
        If the hospitals are overwhelmed then why only refuse treatment to the unvaccinated why not the obese as they represent a large number of admission which could be easily avoided. For the majority of obese it is their decisions that got them to that position. Then you could refuse treatment for smokers and follow that with car accident victims as they chose to get in a car. Why treat someone who fell of a ladder as they chose to climb it. The list goes on and on.
        How about we put weight scales at all supermarkets and food service outlets to limit the food served to each customer I based on their weight as that’s the stupidity of Covid passports and any preferential treatment for the vaccinated.

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    Phillip Charles Sweeney

    “Scare at Melbourne Vaccination Clinic” – The Age 20 August 2021

    Again when there is a lockdown to prevent the spread of the SARS-CoV-2 virus it is completely mad to have people queuing up to get “vaccinated” when
    (i) the “vaccine” does not prevent infection nor transmission of the virus;
    (ii) only reduces symptoms in some people after five to eight weeks; and
    (iii) creates a new class of super-spreaders who are out and about instead of being in bed for a week

    Politican decision making is being driven by fear and not by “the science”.

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    • #
      Analitik

      Actually, it is decision making driven “the science”

      “The science” is a set of statements formulated to justify an agenda as distinct from science which is a set of facts.
      Always look for the agenda when a message contains the phrase “the science”

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    Anton

    It’s going to happen eventually in NZ and when it does people will regard previous lockdowns as having been futile. Meanwhile the economy goes to blazes. Lockdowns are not cost-free, and border closures wreck the tourist industry. Do Kiwis want never to see the rest of the world?

    Forget herd immunity, the delta variant is so much more infectious that it is unlikely to be reached. But there is also evidence that it is less dangerous than its ancestors, if you look closely at the statistics. SARS-CoV-2 is mutating to become less harmful, not more, which is a huge relief.

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      WXcycles

      SARS-CoV-2 is mutating to become less harmful, not more, which is a huge relief.

      EXCEPT, very sick people fill the hospital wards a lot faster with Delta, about 3.5 to 4 times the prior peak from other strains seems to be typical in many countries. Thus the stress on hospital resources rises very suddenly, and higher mortality is the result.

      How do you prevent that outcome? You isolate sooner and the rise does not happen, which is also why Delta mortality is remaining lower in developed countries, But mortality doubled in India with Delta, when effective isolation did not occur quickly, or early.

      So you can not then conclude that Delta being less lethal overall means that isolation is any less necessary. On the contrary, the reality is exactly the reverse of that, a rapid lockdown becomes made even more essential to prevent hospitals from being quickly overloaded and mortality rising sharply.

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      • #
        Annie

        How to prevent stress on hospital resources?
        Hollow laugh; the known cheap medications used as prophylactics and EARLY treatment. Except that our useless so-called ‘leaders’ won’t.
        Our current situation is entirely down to them; they have blood on their hands and this country in an unbelievable mess.

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      RickWill

      But there is also evidence that it is less dangerous than its ancestors, if you look closely at the statistics.

      The Delta variant evolved in India. The estimated toll in India is 4.7M and most from the Delta variant. Bodies were being burnt in the streets:

      The only reason the ratio of deaths to cases is coming down across the globe is the level of vaccinations. Vaccinated people can still contract Covid but have 1/10th the risk of dying compared with unvaccinated.

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        Analitik

        Serology tests from both India and Peru show that CoViD spread far more widely than you suppose so the mortality rate is far lower than you assert.

        Yes, they had a large number of deaths but that was largely because of the ineffectual treatments that caused the hospitals to be overwhelmed – triage inevitably causes a larger number of deaths than otherwise. Peru abandoned ivermectin in November 2020 which then led to the big spike in cases and deaths at end of the year. Indonesia has had the same spike when they abandoned ivermectin earlier this year. India started using ivermectin in April which led to cases and deaths plummeting.

        Also the number of excess deaths would have been exacerbated by the lockdowns which deprived people of their normal health care – this particularly makes a big difference for diseases and conditions where early diagnosis is important.

        There is a lesson here if we choose to take it.

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        shortie of greenbank

        the short sharp spike in India died down quickly, especially in areas that rolled out mass doses of ivermectin. People don’t have to take it but the decline in cases and deaths were quite apparent from the introduction of the protocols.

        But even in the most diabetes ridden areas of India (about 18% of the population of Chandigarh for example are full diabetics where the death rate associated with covid was about 1.2%), considering how poor the testing was there the numbers could be very well swayed one way or another.

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        • #
          shortie of greenbank

          I should put that in context here, Australia’s diabetic rate is about 5% (though both India and Australia have a much much larger pre-diabetic community which still pose a problem).

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          Analitik

          Also there is the large proportion of the Indian population with Vitamin D deficiency as pointed out by David Maddison. This acts as a comorbidity for CoViD

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        • #
          RickWill

          the short sharp spike in India died down quickly,

          Burning people on the side of the road will have that impact on people. They soon learn to limit contact with others to avoid spreading this deadly virus.

          India was in terrible shape because their hospital system was overwhelmed. The prime reason for containing the spread of the virus until the vast majority of the population are vaccinated.

          The deadliness of the virus has been known since it was released in Wuhan. The hospital that was built in three weeks and the truckloads of urns were all solid indicators China knew what they had released.

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            shortie of greenbank

            So does welding suspected infected people in their apartments in china. It was not vaccination but ivermectin that could respond to the drop in rates, it takes weeks after the bulk of the populace is vaccinated for the hypothetical ‘herd immunity’ could be attributed, if in fact you could even use that in the case of MRNA treatments. Cases AND deaths plummeted in locations not just a minor reduction in cases and a substantial reduction in deaths if what we see from MRNA vaccines are the cause.

            The populations in these areas are just too substantial and access to food to avoid contact with other people is not viable compared to many western countries that instead freak out on a toilet paper only diet.

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            David Maddison

            Granted that the Chicomms could build anything 50 times faster than we could in Australia where we are mired by lazy overpaid union thugs and overwhelming government regulations on multiple levels, the Chinese hospital built in record time was made of prefabricated components and was only two stories.

            We could have done it similarly in Australia if we didn’t have lazy unions and massive government regulations to contend with.

            Here’s how it was done:

            https://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-managed-build-entirely-new-hospital-in-10-days-2020-2

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            David A

            Rick says
            “ Burning people on the side of the road will have that impact on people. They soon learn to limit contact with others to avoid spreading this deadly virus.”

            Complete nonsense. India’s population density is through the roof. Contact with others is unavoidable with hundreds sharing a toilet.

            The widespread use of HCQ and Ivermectin ( where allowed) is what kept the numbers low in India

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        MP

        The bodies were being burnt on TV. Actually you did not see any bodies.
        1.4 billion people died in India in your life time.
        You continually totalise the body count instead of annualise, which is done for all deaths no matter what it is.

        Fear porn.

        You do not give a toss how many die where, you only care about you, as is obvious.

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        Anton

        Not true Rick, in France the academic biomedic Jean-Paul Bourdineaud controlled for vaccination in his estimate that delta was less lethal. See his letter to Charlie Hebdo magazine, although I’m not sure that an English translation is in the public domain.

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    David Maddison

    Watch NZ destroy itself with a communist as “leader” and the twin weapons for destroying Western Civilisation of 1) the anthropogenic global warming fraud for which NZ is going to make a “complete transition” to “renewables” and 2) endless covid lock ups with social isolation including no border crossings and economic disaster.

    Ardern admits she is a communist which is obvious from her background anyway: https://youtu.be/5RM9Q7XW72U

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      Dennis

      In early 2008, Ardern was elected president of the International Union of Socialist Youth, a role which saw her spend time in several countries, including Jordan, Israel, Algeria and China.

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    RightOverLabour

    If you don’t watch anything else, watch this video…. https://www.bitchute.com/video/jXfmhulYzIAs/

    It is very enlightening….

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      RightOverLabour

      Why is the comment in moderation? Just curious.

      [ It isn’t. – LVA]

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      RickWill

      Yeardon stated in April 2020 that any claim the US was in a second wave was just nonsense. The population would already have immunity to SARS virus. That is 4 waves back when cases were a mere 23k per day and deaths had only reached 46k.
      https://reveal666.weebly.com/dr-michael-yeadon.html

      This is from Robert Malones partner:

      This seminal work, which occurred over five years (1986-1990). It is what has spawned the mRNA vaccination technologies now saving the world from COVID-19. There are papers and TEN issued patents, all with a priority date of 3/21/1989. THOSE PATENTS INCLUDE mRNA vaccination and there were vaccines studies to support those claims. The record is crystal clear.

      https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/history-how-mrna-vaccines-were-discovered-jill-glasspool-malone-phd

      Robert Malone is bitter and severely twisted that he is not being credited for his invention.

      Please do your own 5 minutes of research before you promote commentary of bitter and twisted fools taken out of context.

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        RossP

        There is a lot more to the Dr Robert Malone story than that Rick.

        https://www.rwmalonemd.com/mrna-vaccine-inventor

        His story is similar to Dr Judy Mikovit, with her work with HIV and what Fauci subsequently did.

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          RickWill

          I was simply using Malone’s partner’s words to make the point that she views mRNA vaccines as world saving:

          It is what has spawned the mRNA vaccination technologies now saving the world from COVID-19

          Her words, which contradict any claim that the vaccines are dangerous. I doubt she was being cynical because she considers Malone has been hard done by in not being recognised as the inventor.

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            RossP

            I was simply putting up the full story, not a cherry picked part of it that you thought justified you saying

            “Robert Malone is bitter and severely twisted that he is not being credited for his invention.”

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        shortie of greenbank

        you can talk patents but that might not end well. Spike proteins for this very virus has had about 72-73 patents on them or treatment for them since about 1999 to 2019. The spike is not ‘novel’ by the sense of the word and its usage. The CDC had attempted to patent the entire sequence since about 2003 with a treatment for this ‘discovery’ lodged only a short time later that same month by a private company that was later purchased by some of the major players in the current vaccine game with this virus. Dr David Martin (not a medical doctor I’m gathering as his specialty is more in patent law etc) gives a presentation on all this but you may have to head to bitchute or odysee to find it.

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        RightOverLabour

        Let’s assume you are correct about Malone. However, you going to tell me every other person on that video is also bitter and severely twisted?

        Did you watch the video?

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          MP

          All these types have is discredit the messenger, because they can’t discredit the message.

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          • #

            exactly MP,
            to attack the player and not the ball
            as soon as anyone starts doing that they have lost all credibility with me

            the person obviously has nothing to say about the content, nothing worth saying anyway

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          RickWill

          Did you watch the video?

          It only took the first two fools to realise that the video was a beat up.

          Discrediting the “Greenhouse Effect” was a lot more difficult than that. But it is something I have clearly achieved.

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            David A

            Your a sky dragon?

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              Konrad

              David, calling hard science sceptics “sky dragon” is like AGW believers calling sceptics “holocaust deniers”.
              Very few hard sceptics who claim there is no net radiative greenhouse effect for CO2 to add to are influenced by the “slaying the sky dragon” people.

              For example, I accept radiative energy exchange between the surface and atmosphere. I can measure it.

              But via empirical experiment I can show that Fourier’s foundation calculation in 1824 is in error by nearly 60C.

              71% of the surface of our planet is a complex shortwave selective surface, nowhere close to a near blackbody. The foundation claim of the entire radiative GHE conjecture: “Surface Tav of 255 Kelvin in absence of radiative atmosphere” is utterly wrong. For an albedo of 0.3, the figure should be around 312 kelvin. Which means our radiatively cooled atmosphere is cooling the solar heated surface materials of this planet by 26 degrees, not warming it by 33 degrees. There is no net radiative GHE for CO2 to add to.

              And when you understand how the sun alone could drive our oceans to an average of 335 kelvin without atmospheric cooling, then you will also understand why solar spectral variance is so important to ocean heat content.

              The critical thing to understand is that you cannot calculate solar thermal gain in the oceans with an instantaneous radiative balance equation like SB. It’s a problem for CFD or empirical experiment only. (Which is why climastrologists can’t work it out).

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              • #
                David A

                Acceptable and upvoted.

                I have long said we have a GHLiquid ocean, and we do not know the residence time of disparate SWR entering the oceans, nor the net loss/gain of different solar cycles, or the same from natural atmospheric changes.

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  • #

    What would prove the vaccine is pointless?

    CDC considers 12 of the 13 most vaccinated countries a travel risk
    https://freewestmedia.com/2021/08/11/cdc-considers-12-of-the-13-most-vaccinated-countries-a-travel-risk/

    The study demonstrated that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people, said CDC Director Rochelle Walensky.

    https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/delta-variant-produces-similar-viral-loads-in-vaccinated-unvaccinated-cdc-121073100060_1.html

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    el gordo

    Enlightened self interest.

    ‘A major vaccine center in the United Kingdom is working on combining flu and COVID-19 vaccines into a single shot, in a move that could streamline manufacturing and speed up roll out.

    ‘Several health experts have warned that the novel coronavirus may not be eradicated, and will instead become endemic to human populations around the globe, leading to outbreaks on a seasonal basis, like the flu.’ (China Daily)

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    16 of 20 Most Vaccinated Countries Very High or High Risk for Travel, Says CDC

    Level 4: COVID-19 Very High
    Malta (80.18%)
    United Arab Emirates (73.69%)
    Iceland (70.67%)
    Seychelles (70.22%)
    Uruguay (69.25%)

    https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/08/15/most-vaccinated-countries-at-high-risk-for-travel.html

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  • #
    blip

    If the forests have Covid what’s the use of lockdowns? Island nations taking precautions because they can — and that’s welcome, like The Federalist Papers.

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    Simon B

    Furthermore — If the strategy is going to be a lockdown of any sort sooner or later — because the hospitals will break at some stage. That’s a really interesting point. Are we ever going to be told what the medical system is doing while all these sick people are recovering at home? The contact tracers are inept, but the first sign of an outbreak isn’t flooded hospitals, so what is their role? Actual scientists said an initial lockdown was beneficial for medical readiness, now is detrimental to mental health, but apparently there are thousands out there with stockholm syndrome. The only illness figures which I’ve heard are filling NZ hospitals are the children with respiratory distress from immune debt!

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    RightOverLabour

    Anyone know why comments go into moderation? I have one with a video link, no offensive words…

    [ Complicated. AI filter, spam filter, etc. No idea why. – LVA ]

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      David Maddison

      In my experience 100% of b1tchu+€ videos go into moderation.

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      David Maddison

      It’s the video platform you linked to. One hundred percent of videos from that platform go into moderation.

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      RightOverLabour

      Hi All good. I thought I had fallen foul of some obscure rule. By the way, this is one of the best blogs I have come across, originally found it when discussing the Climate Change Scam. Keep up the good work. A friend of mine ( a doctor in Queensland informs me that all medical personal in NSW have to be vaccinated. I hope there is serious pushback on this draconian tyranny.

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      blip

      sorry to be so crass and obvious but it is because Jo moderates this discussion at considerable time and effort on her part. This ain’t playground school stuff where you appeal to authority for having your opinion having equal weight because.

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    Piñata

    I’m afraid Jo et al have jumped the shark on this.
    Australia and New Zealand cannot live under the doona forever.
    You can, but that is called a grave.

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    RossP

    Here is a great article about comments made in an interview by Aussie’s great tennis player, Pat Cash.

    https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/im-angry-about-covid-lies-tennis-legend-pat-cash/

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      Annie

      Saw that. Good for Pat Cash.

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      Analitik

      Wow, that’s awesome. Thanks very much for providing that link.
      Pat has stepped up from sporting hero to just plain hero with this. Conservative media outlets (looking at you, Sky News) need to interview him as well to help spread his experiences and the information he has found (which all fits in with what many of us here are saying)

      I sent emails to the Tennis Association, Women’s and the Men’s.
      And I said, ‘You’re proposing a vaccine that hasn’t been tested, on young, healthy players?’ I said, ‘I think you want to rethink this.’
      ‘No, no,’ they were just straight off, ‘No, no, this is the way to go forward.’
      I said, ‘Okay, well I’m not getting anywhere there. Let me do the research.’ And I’ve realised that what they were telling was simply wrong. Simply wrong. And I got it confirmed and I double checked it and I triple checked it and I quadruple checked it.

      I’ve been taking (ivermectin) for over a year and a quarter now. We know it works. We know that it’s a medicine and this is not . . . go ahead, fact check me, all you like. Ivermectin works. It’s a cheap drug. It’s a wonder drug. And I’m living proof that I have been in the worst areas everywhere around the world and I haven’t come close to getting Covid.

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        Analitik

        Something else that is in the interview.

        His previously healthy 89 year old mother suffered from 2 strokes and a heart attack after being vaccinated and the doctors wouldn’t report it as an adverse reaction. They said there was “no point”.

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          shortie of greenbank

          this is pretty true in all the reporting systems, they are designed to mask the problem rather than shine a light on it. Being in IT such a system would be laughed at as using reporting to help diagnose system faults are well known and effective.

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            MP

            That this is a trial injection and the most important information is voluntary at best is suspicious.

            Its all about the batch number for some strange reason.

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    Dean Gardiner

    Apologies in advance for the schadenfreude.

    Looks like Services Minister Victor Dominello has been diagnosed with Bell’s Palsy.

    Bell’s Palsy used to be an extremely rare condition (~ 0.015% general population per year).

    Bell’s Palsy raised red flags when the Pfizer clinical trial data emerged, as four people in the vaccinated group contracted the condition. Pfizer waved it off saying it was in line with normal community cases, 4 out of 20,000 is roughly 0.016%. But the trial was only two months long! In fact based on this data you are six times more likely to get Bell’s Palsy in the two months after vaccination. This also does not take into account any attempt to account for any normal risk factors with the study participants that contracted the condition.

    Considering that Victor Dominello is not pregnant, obese or appear to have diabetes it would seem that there is an 80% chance he got this from the vaccine.

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    Nezysquared

    I think Jo’s commentary on the Wuhan virus in general falls very much in line with the MSM’s dire predictions of catastrophic excess deaths and paints far too bleak a picture. There can be no doubt that Jo strongly advocates for a zero covid policy which is all rather disappointing really. In one response above Jo advocates the use of masks when there is now a truckload of data which points to their ineffectiveness. To be effective PPE must be used correctly but during lockdowns in WA it’s obvious that most people wear single use masks multiple times, the masks fit badly and they are made from inappropriate materials in some cases. It becomes merely an exercise in virtue signalling government subjugation. On the subject of infection mortality rates I quote from an article in this week’s Spectator – “the World Health Organisation Bulletin published a paper by epidemiology expert Dr John Ioannidis entitled “Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data. That paper surveyed data across 51 countries and found that the “median infection fatality rate across all 51 locations was 0.27%. In other words, on average, 99.73 per cent of people who contracted Covid-19 across the 51 countries that Dr Ioannidis surveyed survived the virus”. Given the now irrefutable data on the long term damage to small businesses, the mental health of individuals and the number of excess deaths from undiagnosed and untreated severe diseases due to a reduction in hospital admissions is this continued suppression of freedoms worth it? I don’t believe so. Let’s forget the fairy stories of the next miracle cure just around the corner. By all means take the “vaccine” if you think it does you any good. Leave alone those who choose not to participate in the trial and roll out the now well known treatments which will save lives. We cannot lockdown forever nor avoid the reservoirs of virus circulating in the rest of the world. This is with us forever just like the annual flu…

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      RightOverLabour

      To give Jo credit, she allows discussion on this, unlike the MSM and other blogs I have encountered. Stuff.co.nz must have had Goebells as their mentor.

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        Analitik

        Jo’s site is generally terrific for conservatives to be able to have open discussion. It’s just this paranoia that has afflicted her over CoViD-19 that is disappointing and puzzling.

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    Epicurious

    NZ and the ACT call lockups on 1 case. What is a case? A positive result from the totally discredited PCR test or other totally useless tests. If these crooked pollies and bureau-rats were anywhere near honest they would advise on the Cycle Threshold (Ct) value for each ‘positive test outcome’. Any Ct over 30 is totally useless. Why has the CDC suggested Ct @ 40 for unvaccinated people and Ct @ 25 for the vaccinated? Because one will overstate the disease and the other will show the ‘vaccines’ work.

    Now in regard to cases I’m not interested in these propaganda numbers. Just give us the deaths with co-morbidities and no co-morbidities. Lets not forget the average flu season takes between 1,800 – 3,000 per annum.

    For those fixated on a vaccine, not a gene medical device, I refer you to Sotrovimab a currently US FDA EUA approved alternate which looks promising vis a vis the current death jabs at https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/sotrovimab-the-alternative-to-mrna-vaccines/

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      Serp

      Vaccinated people are being PCR tested with lowered amplification? My powers of comprehension are not up to parsing this morsel of information. Why test them at all?

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    Forrest Gardener

    Aren’t analogies fun. Right up to the point where you try to apply them beyond their limits.

    Imagine a virus is like a tesla fire. Do you want the fire brigade to waste manpower trying to put it out? And the entire population of the world to go into hiding?

    I say it’s a really good analogy because tesla ownership spreads very much like a virus. Or so the manufacturer hopes.

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      Serp

      News of a car fire with two fatalities subsequent to driving into a pole was broadcast today; I listened closely to the next bulletin and was a tad disappointed to hear that the vehicle was a ute as I’d supposed it would be an EV.

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    Single Malt

    Plenty of good suggestions here on how to get through this mess. The only problem is, each solution would require politicians/bureaucrats to recant 18-months worth of policy and hyperbole and go in a different direction. None are capable of admitting they got it wrong, very few are prepared to remove blinkers and even slightly shift course. Covid is not the most dangerous disease afflicting Australia, it is bloody-mindedness from those in charge.

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    • #
      RickWill

      it is bloody-mindedness from those in charge.

      No – it is the fundamental of a democracy – taking the course of the majority.

      In Australia there is wide support for – first, border controls; then lockdowns and ultimately curfews. The vast majority of people can see the bleeding obvious.

      Gladys has just introduced night curfews in NSW for the badly affected LGAs. She has done that in the hope of not being decimated at the next election for an inadequate Covid response.

      It was clear that the NSW CHO wanted curfews weeks ago but was told that would not happen in NSW; now it has. Simple messages like night curfews work and they make policing easier.

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    Philip

    The attitudes I see to covid remind me of the ones when I ran a green “non chemical” pest control business for many years. An inability to think beyond binary analysis and search for the magical pill.

    People would inquire with “what do you use?” Unfortunately it was a complicated story that involved many things, but not what they were expecting, a magic non-toxic spray.

    I had 5 seconds at most explanation time before people would stop listening. Most who proceeded with the service already had their minds made up before inquiring. Those who required explanation rarely went ahead because they couldn’t listen beyond the expiry time.

    People want simple solutions to simple problems.

    With covid, the public are chasing this vaccine as the magic pill. Explanation that shutting the border, taking anti-virals and vitamins, changing habits to avoid contact, identify the vector and stop it as early as possible to avoid large outbreaks, all this stuff, is way too complicated. They stop listening and revert to magic pill theory.

    Unfortunately, our great leaders are just as simple. Like my clients who chased the magic spray, they chase the magic jab that will solve all problems without much effort, won’t it?

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      RickWill

      With covid, the public are chasing this vaccine as the magic pill. Explanation that shutting the border, taking anti-virals and vitamins, changing habits to avoid contact, identify the vector and stop it as early as possible to avoid large outbreaks, all this stuff, is way too complicated. They stop listening and revert to magic pill theory.

      That is the reasons curfews work. It is such a simple message.

      Businesses like supermarkets can get a more complicated message across to staff with regular reviews. It needs to be much simpler for the broad public.

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        tonyb

        Rick

        So, we are all to be run by opinion polls? In which case most want drastic action on climate change. Yet this site exists in order to fight against that. So that makes this sdite nti democratic presumably?

        The same applies to any number of issues which merely take a snap shot of peoples opinions without the context or consequences being realised.

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    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    Tonyb said:
    “Zero? You need a 100% percent effective vaccine and nearly everyone vaccinated. That isn’t going to happen and carrying out a zero covid programme is going to end up with constant lockdowns, release lockdown release for years.”

    TonyB is correct. Currently the only way out is to use sterilizing vaccines based on primary multi drug treatments like Ivermectin (IVM) or Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ). These have success at stopping the virus at the host whereas the current mRNA jabs only ameliorate symptoms but still allow the virus to be passed between hosts. Overwhelming evidence from Gibraltar, Iceland, the Seychelles and other majority vaxxed countries show that non-sterilizing nRNA based jabs do nothing to stop the virus propagation via mutation.
    Now some commentators will remonstrate that getting vaxxed at least ameliorates severe symptoms. However, multi drug anti-viral regimes based on IVM & HCQ do this as well, if not faster and certainly with no worry about future, unknown adverse health effects as with mRNA treatment protocols.

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    Forrest Gardener

    To follow on from a couple of things which interest me.

    First, what is the current infection rate from the original virus? All we seem to hear about is the delta variant. If the original virus has disappeared from the face of the earth that would be kind of good news. And it would beg the question of how and why it disappeared.

    Second, on a video call with two of my children in the UK they showed me a simple self test which is available from pharmacies. Apparently it is in widespread use. The value my children saw in it was as a sort of preliminary screening. If it shows positive they would then take the up the nose test, which is apparently self-administered there as well.

    There are three factors which make me hesitant to take an official covid test. First having somebody I don’t trust shoving anything up my nose. Second the risk of infection by going anywhere near a bunch of people who think they might be infected. Third the reliability of the tests which can now apparently distinguish between variants but not so much between the virus and the flu.

    And once again thanks to Jo for her tireless work. I am always far more confident in what she and others write here that I ever am in what governments and big media have to say.

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      RickWill

      All those questions can be answered to your own satisfaction by a little research. I can make immediate comment on a couple.

      The Delta variant is more transmissible and has become dominant in most locations. Many locations had the infection rate under 1 for the Alpha variant. That means it was dying out. The Delta tips the scales and pushed the infection rate above 1 again so it just dominates. That is why Sydney is struggling now because they got the Delta under control with just lockdown in 2020.

      The Lambda variant that originated in Peru is also more virulent but it has not been cast as widely as the Delta.

      On testing – there are numerous testing locations in Australia that are drive through. The staff are careful regarding infection control. As far as I know the only known transmission from a drive through testing site in Victoria was from a security person visiting a toilet at the site. So avoid public toilets at a drive-thru testing site.

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        Forrest Gardener

        So when did the tests develop the ability to distinguish between the variants?

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        • #
          RickWill

          There are hand-held sequencers available now for simple genomic structures like viruses. This has been a massive step in identifying genotypes in the last decade.

          The virus is isolated from individuals then sequenced to find the chain of infection.

          My oldest son is the biomolecular scientist but he works in the UK so not easy to ask. I know very little about genomic sequencing. I just know you can get hand-held sequencers for small chains these days and I figure that is what is being used by the labs supporting the contact tracing. All cases in Victoria are being sequenced if the source is unknown or even to confirm the source to ensure they have the correct chain of transmission.

          Listening to Jeroen Weimar at the daily press conference is like watching the unfolding of a murder mystery as they track down the clues. It is impressive detective work all underpinned by genomic sequencing. Today they found the source of the wastewater fragments in Shepparton that has been a concern for 4 days.

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            Forrest Gardener

            I don’t doubt what you say and the government statements about linking support what you say.

            But my doubt about chain of infection is that the labs would need to be doing genomic sequencing on each and every sample tested as well as the PCR testing. I’ve never heard them claim that but if they were they would know the linkages immediately which they don’t claim to.

            I think it is actually more likely that they are simply using contract tracing. I say that because the governments often seem to announce linking several days after announcing the positive test numbers are made public.

            And I can’t say I find any of the press conferences anything other than attempts to avoid saying what they do not want to say. Or in the case of Victoria’s premier exercises in self-promotion.

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        Analitik

        The Lambda variant is not more virulent than the original strain but it does have resistance to the antibodies produced by the various CoVid vaccines, whether spike or deactivated virons. This gives it the appearance of greater infectiousness in regions that have been heavily vaccinated.

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        Konrad

        Rick, you are right about public toilets. Everywhere.

        There has always been a gastrointestinal vector evident in data since early 2020. Diamond princess, the Hong Kong towers etc.

        This should be no surprise as the organ in the human body with the highest expression of the ACE2 receptor is the small intestine, not the lungs.

        So why does the virus not cause damage to the small intestine like the heart, lungs, kidneys and testis? Simple: the small intestine can just dump damaged cells (and usually a close cluster of healthy cells) into the waste stream. Fecal fomites in which the virus can continue replicating.

        Multiple studies found this in Wuhan hospitals. The highest viral detection was around patient toilets, not their beds.

        Just because the respiratory tract is where obvious symptoms occur, does not mean that is the site of initial infection / incubation.

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    Flok

    This was published just over a year ago

    A combination of FDA and TGA approved Ivermectin, Zinc and Doxycycline has shown positive results for COVID-19 and should be considered immediately to fight the pandemic’ says CDD Medical Director Professor Thomas Borody

    https://www.biospectrumasia.com/news/91/16457/australian-develops-effective-triple-therapy-to-treat-covid-19.html

    “If nothing else, make it available in aged care homes immediately. Our elderly are at the highest risk and this is a very safe option especially when we have nothing else except ventilators. Also, our frontline workers deserve more protection with a preventative medication like this, and as an emergency treatment if they test positive,” says Professor Borody.

    A year later it appears that the most qualified are being ignored.

    What is the second opinion to the government? Perhaps they will pay attention when the curtains in their offices start burning.
    Good country Australia.

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    Lance

    Just an observation. Take it as you wish.

    NZ may or may not benefit from their total lockdown approach.
    NZ will, without question, suffer enormous economic and social damages.
    An endemic virus is ultimately unavoidable. One must deal with it directly, at some point.

    Pfizer/Moderna have profited 12 Billion USD in 8 months. That is 2 Million USD per Hour. 24/7.

    And now they recommend a 3rd jab. Cynical, yes. Accurate, Yes.

    For a non sterilizing, no liability, gene therapy that provides declining protection and a host of known and unknown liabilities.

    This charade is unsustainable by any measure. See Post #12.

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      Forrest Gardener

      Conflict of interest is a never ending problem.

      And it is worse now that corporate interests are increasingly dominant. Sort of like the military armaments manufacturers lobbying for armed intervention in everybody else’s country.

      The solution? Who knows?

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      Philip

      NO we do not have to just deal with it directly at some stage. Shut the border tight and life goes on as normal, just without the overseas holiday. That’s as direct as you can get and very effective.

      WE have already seen amazing results from border control, its just not good enough border control, it’s very easy to do. The easiest thing to do.

      Problem is we have mid-wit bureaucrats running the show.

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    RickWill

    Gladys has announced curfews for the local government areas with high number of roaming spreaders.

    Also masks universal across the state; indoors in public areas and outdoors.

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    • #
      Dennis

      Former Labor Government Finance Minister, Peter Walsh, had his book published “Confessions Of A Failed Finance Minister” after the Keating Labor Government lost to the Howard Liberal-National Government in 1996. One of the regular news stories of that period was about Labor’s “ethnic branch stacking” to recruit new members from the migrant communities.

      Walsh and some other Cabinet Ministers met with PM Keating requesting a stop to manipulation of the Immigration system pointing out that too many migrants were being admitted who came from backgrounds unlikely to assimilate here, certainly not as well as the post WW2 migrants from Europe and the UK have done, because of their beliefs and problems of tribalism and long standing feuds. The Ministers expressed concern about future social problems burdening our nation.

      And now during the pandemic the problem local government areas in Sydney are where those people have chosen to live, preferring to form communities rather than mixing and moving to country areas.

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        RickWill

        Melbourne experienced those issues last year particularly with regard people’s faith and the virus was hard felt in communities dominated by a certain faith.

        One of the recent outbreaks was in a school of that same faith this year but their response was spectacularly different. The school set up its own testing and vaccination site in the school grounds and all schools of that faith in Melbourne immediately sent all students home because they had had an interschool competition. All that before the government got involved other than helping with the testing.

        The least assimilated in the Australian community remain the original Australians.

        Issues with new Australians is language and respect for authority rather than fear of authority.

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        shortie of greenbank

        To be fair, by the time Keating left he had a rather strict policy on immigration compared to other labor governments. Since 2005 it has been higher than any time under the Hawke government for example. We have been around 190k (over 200k if you include humanitarian cases) a year for the past 4 years.

        Conservative skinsuits at best unfortunately paying lip service to the ideals they should hold dear.

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        Tilba Tilba

        The Ministers expressed concern about future social problems burdening our nation.

        The Ministers were wrong … by almost any international measure, the multicultural policies of Australia have been very successful – with waves of diverse immigrants sine WWII.

        The Labor Party has a fairly long and tawdry history or being anti-immigrant – and frankly racist towards non-Europeans too. Partly a defence of union and other jobs for “Australians”, but it’s also very much based on Australian jingoism and redneck attitudes among the party and its members – at least pre-Hawke.

        And now during the pandemic the problem local government areas in Sydney are where those people have chosen to live, preferring to form communities rather than mixing and moving to country areas.

        America, but also Australia, have an even longer history of stirring up anti-immigration frenzy, by claiming the newcomers are unclean, disease-carriers, and basically never going to integrate. It is still happening today in America … just watch Tucker Carlson for five minutes (if you can stand to).

        New immigrants live in cities for the same reasons that most of us do – it is where the jobs, education, entertainment, and most services are. It takes a particular type of person to live in much of rural-regional Australia … you need to be fairly unambitious in just about every way. And Australia still has a squatter class out there.

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          clarence.t

          “It takes a particular type of person to live in much of rural-regional Australia … you need to be fairly unambitious in just about every way.”

          More complete BS, and sickening to boot.. !!

          Seem you are describing yourself.. no ambition to learn or face reality… ever.

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          • #

            It takes a particular type of person to live in much of rural-regional Australia … you need to be fairly unambitious in just about every way. And Australia still has a squatter class out there.

            Ahhh Tilba showing the arrogant disdain, and ignorance of an inner-city-nerd about the people who grow his/her food.

            Sure Tilba-the-hate, people buying farms and spending $400k each year on seeding as a bet for decent weather are “unambitious”.

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              clarence.t

              Rural-regional people have more ambition in their little finger than sicko-phantic little worms like Tilba would have in their hole soulless body.

              They are the people that give and provide for the non-ambitious, groping, taking, loathsome, hating, leftist trash like Tibla.

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                Tilba Tilba

                LOL … don’t hold back clarence – tell us what you really think!

                Can I point out that I mentioned the “squatter class” – those who had the good luck to be born into the farm-owning families and dynasties that can and do make a quid, and can and do have a pretty good life.

                I was deeply envious of their good fortune when I saw them at the Royal Easter Show as a kid in Sydney. The western suburbs were dullsville by comparison.

                But my point was that a bunch of Lebanese or Somali or whatever migrants living in Cabramatta are not going to go live in Narromine or Roma, and suddenly have a wonderful prosperous life.

                Ergo – they choose to live in cities just like the majority on here do … it is where there are careers and jobs and opportunities, and basically – all the edgy buzz of modern living.

                Most jobs in most country towns are low-ambition. Nothing wrong with it if it suits you, but there isn’t a great deal to aspire to.

                Farmers and graziers are a very small minority. I like farmers, and the fact that they produce food, and often have bad years. But it’s not the point I was making.

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                Tilba Tilba

                Rural-regional people have more ambition in their little finger than sicko-phantic little worms like Tilba would have in their hole soulless body.

                BTW clarence, I should also mention that I lived almost my entire working life (between 20 and 60) OUTSIDE Sydney and Melbourne – and in quite small places such as Cairns and Alice Springs, and medium-size regional cities too (Newcastle, Canberra, Darwin, and others, plus Perth, Adelaide, and Brisbane).

                I loved all of it. And I could do that because I had pre-existing white middle-class qualifications and career experience. So I haven’t been an “inner city latte-sipping Chardonnay Socialist” since I was a lefty student at 19 – and indeed might have more non-cap lived experience than a lot on here.

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                Tilba Tilba

                Rural-regional people have more ambition in their little finger than sicko-phantic little worms like Tilba would have in their hole soulless body.

                And just where have you lived clarence? Are you an inner-city lefty, or a suburbanite? Have you ever lived in a regional place of less than 100,000, as I have for many years? Enquiring minds would like to know where you’re coming from comrade!

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                MP

                You had the same opportunities offered to all Australians, what you did with the offer was up to you.
                Your and many like you are constantly driving a wedge between Australians while crying out its to bring us together.

                You spent 20 years working with Australians of the aboriginal flavor, how better were they after your 20 years of telling them its all white mans fault. Don’t answer as I know, I see the fruits of your work on TV every night, your a failure.

                When you leave this world you will not be remembered.

                Privilege, give your s#it up white boy.

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                clarence.t

                WOW, you really are a victimised leftie, aren’t you Tilba.

                The hatred you have for those around you, that you have lived with, is astounding !

                “since I was a lefty student at 19”

                And you never grew up.. Yes, we had noticed that.

                Seems you aspire to nothing !

                Hence you end up exactly where you are now… a victim of your own self.

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                clarence.t

                Tell us Tilba, do the people who live around you know that you hold them in such utter contempt ?

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    • #
      Forrest Gardener

      You’d kind of hope that the powers that be would have some solid information about time of day for transmissions but I haven’t seen any.

      Sadly it looks a little like circular reasoning. We must do something. This is something. Therefore we must do it.

      Then again it may be just what is needed.

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    Peter C

    Lockdowns and Curfews prevent super spreader events?

    Such as the outdoor freedom protests in Melbourne and Sydney. Has there been a single case coming from either of those OUTDOOR events, even though the protesters congregated and many refused to wear masks.

    Yes there was a single spreader event at a football match which then spread around but it seems like the real spread of the virus in inside people’s homes.
    That suggests another approach, which has been tried before. Sanatorium hospitals. We had several in Melbourne. All have gone now. An anachronism from another era.

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      Analitik

      And at the footy, they have no idea if the infection was in the open or in a restroom, food outlet. It’s as dumb as the fear of fomite spread that has all the useless wiping down of outdoor surfaces.

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      Greg Cavanagh

      They found the same thing in Italy in the early days. They locked down the entire country for months and the spread was getting faster as time went on.
      Lockdowns did not work there. I don’t know, perhaps they all snuck out at night for wine and cheese with the neighbors?

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    blip

    obese and diabetic whine the whole way down as they forget where they came from (starving).

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    RossP

    Follow the science they say. Well the CDC are now saying the “vaccines” diminish their effectiveness in a relatively short time. So why would you continue “vaccinating ” people with these “vaccines”(especially children)?

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/19/cdc-director-rochelle-walensky-announces-benefit-of-covid-vaccination-diminishes-states-there-is-increased-risk-of-severe-illness-for-previously-vaccinated/

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    a happy little debunker

    A scented candle burns inside homes, but will only cause an actual house fire if left in an ‘unfortunate position’ and unattended.

    If you have the processes & protections that these government types insist that they have achieved through contact tracing, masking, social distancing, hand washing and ‘vaccines’ – then the ‘flame’ is not unattended & the risks are very, very, very small.

    Going to ‘code red’ in such circumstance is absurd!

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  • #
    Dennis

    We can debate the virus and how to deal with it but the basic rules are social distancing, hygiene and providing contact tracing information, and of course vaccination.

    Yet too many people continue to ignore the basic rules I am observing. Yesterday I went to a supermarket where a security person was monitoring people to ensure that they checked in (QR code) at the entrance doors. I watched one young man walk towards the check in and wave his phone about, he certainly did not check in, and later inside he had a face mask pulled down hanging around his neck. And this is not the first I have observed.

    People complain about police surveillance but with so many ignorant people blatantly ignoring the rules e enforcement has become necessary.

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    blip

    Dennis, the forests have covid.

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    Stan

    But if you have a lockdown each time you have one case, you will have never-ending lockdowns, even with full vaccination.

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    • #
      Stan

      By “never-ending”, I actually mean “repeated for ever”

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      Tilba Tilba

      But if you have a lockdown each time you have one case, you will have never-ending lockdowns, even with full vaccination.

      You have to solve a set of simultaneous equations. Response by governments will depend on how frequently the “one case” scenario arises. In New Zealand’s situation, it was a rare “First Delta” event, and therefore a short, sharp lockdown (plus suspension of vaccinations) was the sensible move.

      It is unlikely that there will be one isolated case say every 4-6 weeks, since virus propagation doesn’t work like that. Except maybe where you have more than one breaches of a porous border.

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      • #

        Or fix the holes in the borders. No leaks. No lockdowns.

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          Analitik

          Autarky and permanent isolation from the outside world it is, then.

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          Philip

          Or fix the holes in the borders. No leaks. No lockdowns.

          5 dislikes to 3 likes on this statement, This is why we are in trouble. Even among a bright skeptical crowd we cant agree on this simple fact of control.

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          Gabriel Pentelie

          A positive air pressure geodesic dome covering the whole country should do the job quite nicely. Cost be damned. After all, if it saves one life, …

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          Tilba Tilba

          Or fix the holes in the borders. No leaks. No lockdowns.

          Absolutely agree with that! I still shake my head over (a) the cruise ships, and (b) the big-city hotel shambles.

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      Dennis

      I didn’t mention lockdowns, they are another discussion, I only commented on social distancing, hygiene and providing contact tracing information (QR codes).

      And the above are worth following even during the seasonal influenza periods – social distancing and hygiene.

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    Steve of Cornubia

    The house fire analogy works better if you say lockdowns are akin to stopping that small kitchen fire by flooding the whole neighbourhood, putting the fire out but doing thousands of dollars damage to every single home in the process.

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      Tilba Tilba

      The house fire analogy works better if you say lockdowns are akin to stopping that small kitchen fire by flooding the whole neighbourhood, putting the fire out but doing thousands of dollars damage to every single home in the process.

      No – you’re best stopping the small kitchen fire with a blanket or one bucket of water. Minimal damage. It’s when it escapes the kitchen that you might get significant water damage – and even damage to neighbouring houses.

      The biggest cost for NZ is the loss of incoming international tourists (and other industries, like film-making).

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    Old Goat

    I love this blog – everyone has a viewpoint and get a chance to peer review their ideas ….Jo I hope you are knitting together properly and get back to normal. To all the contributors “go for it” – you are making a difference.Lots of people read this blog (but do not comment) and they are getting educated.

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    RightOverLabour

    Democracy and Rules. In the 30s, Hitler was democratically elected ( although I believe 4 million said “Nein”). And good Christian Germans dobbed anyone and everyone in who didn’t follow the “rules”. And because this happened so long ago, many of us are doing exactly the same without realizing it. NZ has some dob in line, which is so overused it collapses under the strain. This type of “dob in your neighbour” is one of the sickest most dangerous parts of lockdown. And yet everyone doing this will carry on about how evil the Nazis were…. you are just as evil, you just don’t realise it…..

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      MP

      Apartheid is again being called for by the masses, this time by status not colour, but same outcome.
      Naz1 control measures are again being called for by the same groups. The more things change the more they remain the same.

      Remember those prosperous times, 2019BC (before Covid) you were sick when you felt sick, aah those were the days.

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    David Maddison

    At one level I’m tempted to say let New Zealanders rot because they are responsible for electing an anti-Western, anti-NZ communist. On the other hand, there are innocent, decent people that didn’t vote for her. It’s much the same situation as in the US.

    In both cases the clueless, stupid and just plain evil ones who voted for their current “leaders” deserve to rot but the good people who didn’t vote for them shouldn’t be made to suffer.

    I expect both Ardern and Biden will be soon inviting plenty of unvetted Taliban terrorists to their countries as “refugees”. Their supporters will no doubt enjoy the enrichment.

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      RightOverLabour

      Well, I didn’t vote for that Lying, Incompetent, Machiavellian hag. However, I fully support your sentiments for those that did.

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      Serp

      Their electoral system is a disgrace. Aotearoa is heading fast to oblivion. Jacinda will be the first world leader to outlaw coal surely.

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    RightOverLabour

    From some New Zealand Doctors with sense: https://nzdsos.com/2021/08/20/the-children-afflicted-will-torment-those-charged-to-protect-them/

    “While lock downs and masks, well shown as ineffective tools for managing COVID elsewhere, are bizarrely and continually being adopted in NZ, the local police  merrily imitate the antics of their UK and Australian cousins.  A small clutch of people numbering perhaps six or seven, young and old alike, walking in the sea breeze and sunshine on an Ashburton shingle beach, a lone young couple having a picnic, all separated by tens of square meters of landscape or sitting in the bubbles of the three or four cars, were collectively ordered by a solitary masked NZ Police constable to return home to lock-down. I cannot imagine that the lone masked constable will chalk that experience up as a victory for sanity. I hope it haunts in years to come, like a serious adverse reaction to the jab.” and

    “Unadulterated insanity seen in the US, the UK, in Canada and in Australia, is now repeated here. We saw it all before elsewhere and we see it here now, yet we stupidly refuse to be forewarned, we refuse to learn, and we stand like a wide-eyed doe, frozen in the dazzling headlights of thundering tyranny.”

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    • #

      Those over policing incidents happeneded here in the UK a year ago when there was confusion and lack of knowledge.

      It was way over the top but that it is happening over there is worse as you should have learnt from our mistakes.

      Govt advice is now to stay outdoors not stay indoors.

      Telling people to return to their own homes to spread the virus is foolish with what we now know.

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    Ruairi

    Panic stations, a Covid case in town,
    Best call out the troops and lock down,
    Lest this singular case,
    Kills the whole human race,
    So welcome to the world of clown.

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    Raving

    237 comments in 18 hrs?
    The topic moves faster than Delta!

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    Rod

    I did a search of this blog for Novavax but with no result !?
    Why is no-one mentioning this alternative?

    Maryland-based biotech company Novavax said that its COVID-19 vaccine was shown to be highly effective in clinical trials, which puts it on track to become the fourth vaccine available in the United States.

    Given the abundance of vaccines in the U.S., Novavax’s vaccine may be available first in low- and middle-income countries through COVAX, the global vaccine sharing alliance. “At least in the foreseeable future, we’re going to have a bigger impact” outside the United States, Stanley Erck, president and CEO of Novavax, told the Wall Street Journal.

    Novavax announces its COVID-19 vaccine is over 90% effective against symptomatic disease
    To date, Novavax has pledged 1.1 billion doses of its vaccine to COVAX.

    While the vaccine still needs to be greenlighted by U.S. regulators, Novavax is on track to manufacture 100 million doses per month by the end of the third quarter and 150 million doses per month by the end of the fourth quarter. The company said it intends to apply for emergency use authorization from the Food & Drug Administration by this fall and plans to share more details from its Phase 3 trials as that data becomes available.

    How does the Novavax vaccine work?
    Novavax’s COVID-19 vaccine is a two-shot formula that can be stored at refrigerator temperatures and utilizes different technology than the United States’ three existing vaccines.

    Pfizer and Moderna use mRNA technology that teaches cells to make a protein that prompts an immune response. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses a viral vector, or a modified version of a different virus, to prompt cells to produce the protein that triggers an immune response.

    In contrast, Novavax is a protein subunit vaccine, meaning it uses a fragment of a harmless protein of the virus that’s grown in a cell culture and stimulates an immune response.

    How does Novavax compare to the other vaccines available in the US?
    The Novavax vaccine was shown to be 90.4% effective overall, with 100% efficacy against moderate and severe cases of COVID-19, according to the company.

    Or what about the new Qld vaccine currently asking for volunteers?

    Thought for the day: the government always has a problem for an answer.

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      Vicki

      Rod,
      Novavax was showing a good deal of promise, particularly as it is not a gene therapy vax. However, the company has never brought a vaccine to market before, & has encountered continual production problems with Novavax.

      For this reason the FDA has refused to grant approval for market. There was also a suggestion that a batch was fo7 d to have suffered contamination of some sort.

      So, despite Australia having ordered 50 million doses, I think it is doubtful that they will eventuate any time soon.

      A better bet for those who refuse the current experimental vaccines are the new anti-virals which should be available here in the new year. That is, unless you can obtain Ivermectin. If you can, “ you are a better man than me, Gunga Din”!

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      David Maddison

      This is a good discussion of Novavax.

      I really hope we can get it.

      I am happy with prophylaxis with quercetin or Ivermectin but if a vaccine is made compulsory, it’s the only one I’d accept.

      https://youtu.be/Q00lyd3gyy4

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      • #

        The only reason I haven’t covered it yet is just the number of hours in the day to read up enough to feel like I have something to contribute. I’m interested. I’d prefer a protein vax to the mRNA ones, though the Adjuvant in Novavax is brand new. And those spikes are still spikes.

        Post your good links here please… 🙂

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      David Maddison

      This is a good discussion of Novavax.

      I really hope we can get it.

      I am happy with prophylaxis with quercetin or Ivermectin but if a vaccine is made compulsory, it’s the only one I’d accept.

      https://youtu.be/Q00lyd3gyy4

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        MP

        Its the same untested, same mandated puss.
        Shows how effective this massive propaganda campaign is. Resistance is futile.

        The amount of never’s, now maybe’s to, if I must, is surreal.
        I am reading Christians now who are submitting to the propaganda, I am not a Christian, (though I identify as one) and what I remember of my bible studies is the beast system coming into play right now.

        It will start off as wearables then move to implantable. (H/T klaus Schwab) It is all part of the same system, virus to vaxx to enslavement.

        Viva La Resistance

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    Raving

    Australia: Rolling 7-dat R value

    Said it before and sure to get voted down again but …
    .. to beat the wave R needs to be less than 1

    The situation continues to grow worse

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    David Maddison

    In the People’s Undemocratic Republic of Vicdanistan they are using “modelling” to decide how long the lockups will be.

    But how do you model unpredictable human behaviour?

    Of course, you can’t model things like an illegal gathering such as when it will occur, or how many people attend or where they live.

    The faith in the numbers generated in a computer is beyond belief. And all by people who lack deep knowledge, or indeed any knowledge about what modelling is or its basis.

    It’s the same fools that are producing economy destroying climate “models”.

    Back in the day when the universities taught truth, scholarship and critical thinking, there used to be an expression, garbage in, garbage out.

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      Analitik

      Yeah their models are as baseless and inaccurate as the ones used for climate science.
      Without any calibration of the infectiousness of the virus that includes asymptomatic cases it’s all hopeful guesswork.

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      Steve of Cornubia

      There are two ways to build a model. One is to look at the now and extrapolate using all the variables that you believe are mission critical, the other is to start with the outcome you desire, then use creativity and maths to get from here, to your preferred ‘there’.

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      Serp

      I suppose they’re still using the computer program Dan of the lost OBOR bragged about last year, the one that Spectator Australia provided links to so that we could plug in the parameters and run our own modelling.

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      David Maddison

      They are probably using the massively defective and invalid Ferguson model which made bizarre and destructive early “predictions”.

      An invalid and defective computer model would be just the thing for defective Australian governments to use.

      https://www.cato.org/blog/how-one-model-simulated-22-million-us-deaths-covid-19

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    Old Goat

    Raving – for your consideration : most of the people who get covid and are vaccinated are asymptomatic . It apppears quite a few of the unvaccinated are the same . Their all infectious and unlikely to get tested . This situation for me indicates that covid will be with us for the forseeable future . Lockdowns merely delay the inevitable. We need to hit it with anti-virals as well as vaccines and accept that it will have fatalities as does every chronic disease or condition .

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    David Maddison

    As predicted with a high proportion of the population “vaccinated” with leaky “vaccines”, there will be an emergence of new and likely deadly strains.

    This has just happened in Israel, one of the world’s most highly vaccinated countries.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/10-cases-of-delta-offshoot-ay3-found-in-israel-today/

    10 cases of Delta offshoot AY3 found in Israel today

    19 Aug 2021, 8:06 pm

    Ten cases of the new Delta offshoot variant AY3 were found in Israel today.

    The variant is a further mutated version of Delta that is being closely watched around the world. It is not yet known whether the strain is more contagious or deadly than the original Delta.

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    MrV

    Sorry to say you are increasingly sounding like a loon with very little understanding of the evolutionary role viruses have and therefore the chances of elimination with lockdown mantra slim. Its axiomatic at this point that a 1 case lockdown equals forever lockdown and an eventual societal breakdown and attendant poverty. All for something where the average age of death is higher than average life expectancy.

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    Doc

    Reading the above, the current vaccines save lives BUT, don’t they simply keep the virus circulating and set us up for the next mutation that could be more potent than Delta. That mutation could happen here as easily as anywhere else. Lockdowns maybe great on the infectious control theory, but they will eventually destroy what economy we have left. Our services, medical, financial and bureaucratic all depend on having that economy protected.

    Not so much the export industries perhaps, but those businesses that employ most Australians like coffee shops and retail etc. It is well and good for government employees to never have missed a beat, even getting wage rises, but for the middle income people with big mortagages to meet, they are the tax payers that pay public wages and keep the banks afloat and the building industry running. For the economy, recurrent lockdowns will eventually break our economies and financial institution. We will be forced to face up to this and have to change to a more flexible position with this virus. Better sooner rather than later.

    We are already leaving Australian citizens to live or die overseas where they are locked in nations that have the virus running amok. The government is trying to save funds where they should have been spent ages ago in providing effective quarantine spaces. People have the right to return home but are abused by being deliberately placed in harms way, where, like Biden, our leaders are leaving them to die. What a terrible indictment of those we elect to lead.

    The only real way to throttle this disease is to temporarily ‘save’ people with vaccines, but as those vaccines wither in effectiveness, the world of useful therapeutics must be called upon, especially when they are known to work in other parts of the world. The politicians cannot hide their blunder in those big pharma contracts any longer or they become, like our Premiers, the equivalent of Biden’s blunder in Afghanistan where US citizens are now left in the hands of the Taliban while Biden says he can do nothing. Equally, our people abroad have a right to return to Australian security and all that entails. This viral fight should never have been taken on with one hand tied behind our back. To continue to do so is a betrayal of the people and a display of the total lack of ethics by which we are ruled these days. Open up all lines of attack against this virus.

    The world of effective therapeutics, as they exist, has to be thrown open and the politicians forced to take what’s coming over their blunder of writing it off.

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      Raving

      Once the old people are vaccinated, most of the death is avoided

      The next huge problem is that Delta is so infectious, it will swamp the health care system, notwithstanding that there are now far fewer deaths

      A traumatized healthcare system is a very ugly thing. It breeds fear in the populace. Nevermind that hospitals (hospices) used to be places where people went to die because there was little hope elsewhere anyhow.

      We livecin a world where people expect to get cured in a hospital. When the hospital overflows then panic really sets in.

      It’s the fear which drives biggest damge from epidemics. You need only look at the extreme staments coming out everywhere. It gets worse when HC can no longer cope

      Covid itself? Vaccination helps. Not such a big deal

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        Doc

        Vaccination becomes a problem when one has cardiac troubles soon after each dose. Serendipity once. A problem twice. It seems to be resolving after 10weeks. The risk of a booster might be enough to boost one right off (or should that be into) the planet. I see today the TGA has passed a new antibody active drug, for use in COVID19 cases but Hunt has a whole 7700 doses which I read a couple of weeks ago was to be used for severe cases only. Maybe that will be a start into therapeutics.

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    Kim

    A graph with no data, no units and no numbers because it’s pretty obvious.

    is called a ‘gee whiz chart’.

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    Travis T. Jones

    Extinction Rebellion protestors block oil terminal in Brisbane

    https://www.soundtelegraph.com.au/news/environment/climate-protests-block-fuel-terminals-c-3722289

    Where are the police?

    Police warn freedom protestors against protesting

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/hell-or-high-water-anti-lockdown-protesters-discuss-avoiding-police-detection

    This can’t end well.

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      Raving

      Hope they are socially distancing 🙂

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      Maptram

      “Extinction Rebellion says the federal, territory and state governments provide $10.3 billion annually in subsidies to prop up economically-unviable coal, oil and gas companies.”

      Is this the same “subsidies” raised by Peter Fitzroy a month or two ago. If so, the likes of Extinction Rebellion, like PF, don’t know the difference between a subsidy and a rebate. Road users pay a fuel tax for the use of public roads. Coal, oil and gas companies, as well as primary producers and anyone else who uses vehicles on private roads, gets a rebate for the fuel tax paid for fuel used in vehicles on private roads. So it’s a rebate not a subsidy.
      On the other hand, people who install solar panels on their roofs and/or operate EVs get subsidies, otherwise they would be too expensive and no one would use them.

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    Not meaning to be pedantic but defcon 1 is the most serious threat, defcon 5 the least threat according to the US military. Although what was really scary was when former American VP announced that climate change had the world at defcon 5, this bloke was a heartbeat away from the launch codes

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    David Maddison

    Thanks to this COVID manufactured crisis I can see how easy it is to manipulate the behaviour of even seemingly intelligent people and make you believe or do anything.

    Loosely translating Voltaire:

    “Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”

    (“Certainement qui est en droit de vous rendre absurde est en droit de vous rendre injuste.”)

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    eilert

    This whole argument is only valid if vaccines are 100% affective and there are no side effects.
    Otherwise you will not be able to get to the illusion of going back to normal.

    Since the vaccines are not 100% (Pfizer is said to be only 46% affective after a few month), you will create the problem of vaccine escape.
    This is so because everybody will have similar antibodies, through the vaccine. The virus only needs to mutate to overcome this type of antibody and may possibly become more lethal, instead of less, which is the normal situation with the evolution of a virus. This is actually what Dr. Malone the inventor of the mRNA technology is pointing out.
    You will not get this problem when a large part of the population got its immunity by recovering from COVID, because everybody will have a unique set of antibodies targeting different parts of the virus. In that case the virus will mutate to a less lethal version, since that would be the common denominator.

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    Rod

    Just spotted this video about people not being allowed to buy food in France.
    How long before it happens here?
    Aussies will have to rebel against this Agenda 2030/Climate change/reinvent the world insanity or…they win.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1428352447634804736

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      David Maddison

      Same thing in Auschtralia. I saw a video where a person was denied entrance to a supermarket because they didn’t have a mask even though they had a medical exemption. Police were also there to make sure he wasn’t allowed to enter to buy food. The video was posted on Facebook but in a way that I couldn’t share a link. I will post it if I find a source with a shareable link.

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    Rod

    Whooaahh.. just watched this vid on TBP. Devastating stuff. This is why Australia is the PRIMARY target..

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/jXfmhulYzIAs/

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    David Maddison

    I rarely watch the TV news (or The Lies as I prefer to call it) but what I see there and online is a massive exercise in GROUPTHINK.

    What Is Groupthink?
    Groupthink is a phenomenon that occurs when a group of individuals reaches a consensus without critical reasoning or evaluation of the consequences or alternatives. Groupthink is based on a common desire not to upset the balance of a group of people.

    It will surpass previous classic examples of groupthink such as the Challenger shuttle disaster, the Bay of Pigs, Watergate, and the escalation of the Vietnam War.

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    David Maddison

    Oops! All of the above in relation to COVID.

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    Kalm Keith

    New Zealand is a long way from where I was this afternoon.

    Stopped at a local pet shop and asked if they had anything for horses to fix worms.

    Spent 10 minutes reading the labels on the packets with ivermectin but didn’t buy anything.

    Australia, a first world country that looks after its horses better than its people.

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    UK-Weather Lass

    To use the analogy of a house fire once everything is burnt out the fire is dead. A virus, on the other hand depens upon suitable hosts and will come and go as opportunity knocks. It can never been burnt out.

    However, the idea that any actions, including mass vaccination, can reduce a country to zero hosts is futile. Coronaviruses and other zootic infectious viruses are with us for the long term (they’ll survive long after humanity has all but perished) and I sincerely hope, once the pandemic fears and anxieties have reduced to realistic and common sense perspectives, that the long line of idiots responsible for the insanity of the past two years (August 2019 is the earliest report of a COVID-19 like human infection I have found but please don’t ask me where) can be removed from any position of harm to the rest of us.

    We will probably never know the true history of SARS-CoV-2 but we do know how we, as a species, behaved in response to it and there is a lot to be learned from that and much of it helps in understanding climate change alarmism and the tragic events occuring right now in the Middle East.

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    David Maddison

    One of the objectives of the lockups is to destroy small business. The Left hate small business because they are not unionised and thus difficult to control. The Government wants only a small number of large businesses that are easy to control and will willingly do government’s bidding such as their declarations to only trade with or employ the vaccinated.

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    Andrew Vallner

    Let’s assume it’s rational to go straight to lockdown. And the WA experience provides some support for that.

    Please explain how it’s rational to lock down the South Island. There is a single cluster in Auckland. Tell people in Invercargill not to travel to Auckland, sure. Hell, tell them not to travel to the North Island. But a stay at home order is completely nuts.

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      Andrew, seems like a good point but without having data on the infection chain I couldn’t say whether the fears that it had spread to the South Island are reasonable. I expect they wouldn’t have done it if they were sure there was no chance. I know there’s no limit on incompetence, I’m just saying that they’ve had leaks and scares and I think locked down Auckland, rather than the whole nation.

      Sure hope they explained why they were doing it to the people of the South Island. They deserve a full explanation.

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      sophocles

      The Single Cluster split into a Double Cluster — and ran off to Coromandel.

      The Cook Strait is a natural barrier. Maybe the South Islanders needed it to prevent them feeling left out?

      Or has the Delta Variant been found to swim?
      Was it theorized to be hiding in the Port Hills?

      Whatever: it’s D-A-F-T to lock down the South Island.

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    feral_nerd

    Great post. If there is one known case, there are probably minimum of several others in incubation. A brief, total shutdown eliminates the chance of a flareup. But is NZ prepared to take this rather radical action every few days or weeks for forever?

    However, my inner schoolmarm requires me to inform you that Defcon 4 is actually the second lowest level of alert, not the second highest.

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    David Maddison

    Good news!

    Widespread roll out of IVM could stop the lockups and the virus in weeks, but if IVM becomes too successful it will be banned as the Left will lose their means of social and economic destruction.

    Note that it was never specifically illegal for Australian GPs to prescribe IVM for covid, unlike the case of HCQ but its good to see a medical group formally recommending it.

    https://cairnsnews.org/2021/08/13/australian-gps-can-legally-prescribe-ivermectin-triple-therapy-protocol/

    August 13, 2021 The Centre for Digestive Diseases issued today a press release titled “Ivermectin Triple Therapy Protocol for COVID-19 Released to Australian GPs for Infected Elderly and Frontline Workers.”

    As we previously covered, this early treatment protocol combines ivermectin with doxycycline and zinc.

    “Triple therapy specialist Professor Thomas Borody, famous for curing peptic ulcers using a triple antibiotic therapy saving millions of lives, today released the COVID-19 treatment protocol to Australian GPs, who can legally prescribe it to their COVID-19 positive patients. They can also prescribe it as a preventative medication. Borody says this could be the fastest and safest way to end the pandemic in Australia within 6-8 weeks.”

    “The three medications are now on chemist shelves right now. GPs can email [email protected] to obtain the dosing protocol and COVID-19 treatment information for their patients.”

    “GPs can legally prescribe the therapy today as an “off label” treatment according to Australian Guidelines – a standard practice in medicine.”

    “In fact more than 60% of prescriptions in Australia are “off-label”. It’s not a new concept. It’s happening every day to manage diseases and save lives.”

    “The Government could end the pandemic by openly encouraging GPs to prescribe these TGA approved medications. Those who test positive, are identified in contact tracing, as well as those in high-risk groups like the elderly and healthcare workers, can then access the therapy quickly.”

    Ivermectin was discovered in the 1970s and is on the World Health Organization (WHO) list of essential medicines.

    “There is mounting worldwide clinical literature pointing to a 100% cure rate using Ivermectin Triple Therapy,” said Professor Borody.

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    David Maddison

    Latest very funny video from AwakenWithJP.

    “Meet the Guys That Censor You!”

    https://youtu.be/wyIiFDcmdTM

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    David Maddison

    Imagine how bad it must be if even the Far Left New York Times says it’s bad…

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/19/well/live/coronavirus-restaurants-classrooms-salons.html

    Those Anti-Covid Plastic Barriers Probably Don’t Help and May Make Things Worse

    Clear barriers have sprung up at restaurants, nail salons and school classrooms, but most of the time, they do little to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

    Picture: Shields at a restaurant in Placerville, Calif., in May 2020. Research suggests that transparent barriers can interfere with normal ventilation. Credit…

    SEE LINK FOR REST BUT YOU MIGHT FIND IT PAYWALLED

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    Lowell from Seattle

    i saw an advertisement on TV in Seattle for touring New Zealand. It made me laugh. Why on earth were they advertising if they wanted to be at zero covid. Zero covid requires locking the borders and not letting tourists in. There is no way I would visit a country that on a whim could lockdown me until its time to go home.

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    Yonason

    America was the classic case of lockdown fail. How so? The American Indians had no contact with the rest of the world, until Europeans and their diseases arrived. That’s when the u know what hit the fan, and the Indian population was decimated, because they had no immunity to the new diseases.

    A lockdown might be a good idea IF you had a real vaccine, not a non-sterilizing pretend one. It could work like this.
    Lock down.
    Give the real vaccine, probably not possible for any SARS, but, if it was, then open up after all receive it.
    Unfortunately, lockdown in the absence of a sterilizing vaccine is only going to add injury to injury.

    See here
    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post/why-the-ongoing-mass-vaccination-experiment-drives-a-rapid-evolutionary-response-of-sars-cov-2

    So, yeah, let’s keep doing what didn’t work before, and hope it turns out better this time.

    See also here…
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PjQvnKClQ9Q

    …and here.
    https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/e89cbef5-70d5-4555-89a9-32f2402dd1aa/SARS2parentsReview_CoueyJJ.pdf

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    JB

    I love the invention of asymptomatic illness! What will Western Medicine hurl at us next?

    There isn’t one single person on the planet, as far as I can tell, trying to distinguish between so-called asymptomatic cases and false-positive test results from both a highly problematic test and utterly nonsensical testing programs and mandates.

    Everyone thinks that flu disappeared this past year, but for weeks now, it’s been the top co-morbidity on the CDC’s Covid dashboard page. And now the PCR test is “multi-plexed” with an influenza test. So how long before we’re quarantined if we test positive for flu?

    And, according to this multi-year study, 77% of flu cases are asymptomatic! Can you believe it??? Like, maybe there’s something wrong with the tests???

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(14)70034-7/fulltext

    I, personally, am hugely offended by the idea that I do not know when I am sick.

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    JB

    Everybody knows that in 2018, the US NIH developed a modified (stabilized) coronavirus spike protein and put it out for licensing, right? The Moderna, Pfizer, J&J, and Novavax vaccines all incorporate that spike protein.

    So, Fauci is the premier salesperson for SARS-CoV-2 vaccination in the U.S., and his parent agency may potentially make a bundle off of all these vaccines. Plus, his own agency, the NIAID, is co-owner of the Moderna vaccine. Additionally, Moderna and the NIAID shared their coronavirus vaccine candidates with Ralph Baric’s lab at Chapel Hill, NC, in early December 2019, when none of us yet knew what was coming down the pike. Why did they they share their toys then with Ralph Baric? And when exactly did they all know what was on the horizon?

    Baric was also co-developer of Remdesivir, the drug that didn’t work for ebola and something else that I think it was tried on. But, allegedly, it works for Covid—depending on which reports you read, of course.

    Don’t anyone forget how many years the U.S. milked 9/11 for, how many countries we destroyed to feed our ever-voracious military-industrial complex, and how many other countries eagerly became “the coalition of the willing.” The U.S. government is evil. Welcome to the 9/11 (or, more accurately, the 3/11) for Big Pharma.

    I’m guessing we finally got out of Afghanistan because the next war has already been planned. It will be with either China or Russia, or both. And it will quickly become a world war. China has been made the patsy for this pandemic, in my opinion. The demonization and development of the next enemy is well under way.

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    sophocles

    I don’t think it was just 1 case to spark the 7-day Auckland lockdown but more like 5 or 6. (Can’t remember which … nor am I interested)

    Auckland and Coromandel are honoured by being given a 7-day lockdown each (today is Saturday — day 3) and the rest of the country came or comes out of it tonight or tomorrow.

    Still no recognition about vit-D or any other anti-viral. Crickets: Chiiirrrp vaccinate chiiiirrrppp! Totally reliant on leaky medications which have been enshrined as O-fishoil Vaccinations. Bloody-minded Idiots. I am staying with my vit-d 3 at 4000IU/day, vit-k2 100mcg/day and Zn. It’s seen me through 3 previous lockdowns so it must be pretty good. And I know none of it is fatal.

    I had a vit-D blood test two weeks before the lockdown and stocked up on Vid-D, Vit-C, Vit-K2 and Zinc for another 16 months for vit D and Vit-K2 and nine months for Vit-C, and Zn. My blood test came back at 221 nm/L so I think I’m more or less Covid-proof — certainly feeling good.

    Weather is 10/10ths cloud and dripping. Temperature is 11° Celsius and wind speed — umm — can’t even be felt — what my mother many years ago called a “Grismal Day.” The Rain Radar shows the only rain cloud over the North Island is parked almost overhead (there is a slight bias to the North East apparent in its angle-parking including Great Mercury Island but missing Coromandel entirely) and that lack of wind says it’s gonna stay.

    Must be middle of winter. (Oh no’s! It’s one week and three days until The End of Winter!) It’s going to be a great, bounteous and Warm, Warm, warm Spring. According to NIWA (NZ’s ee-quivalent to the Australian BOM) so we’re off to a great start. Going GangBusters Already. (I think if I mention Grand Solar Minimum, and Inactive Sun, and Weakening Planetary Magnetic Field and Global Cooling and Geomagnetic Excursion and Cold — that I will only confuse the Poor Dears. They’re fixated on Warming. Poor Things.)

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      sophocles

      Latest news (today)

      – lockdown is extended to Tuesday. Outbreak is claimed to have spread to Wellington.

      Now 31 confirmed cases.

      B****r! Looks as though Auckland’s Lockdown is doing a river-flood imitation and extending everywhere — until the end of the month is being mooted. Which wouldn’t surprise me to be the end of the year. Maybe another letter about Vit-D to her Pontificatess in Wellington about the virtues of Vit-D et al could be worth while. Those thingummies they are calling vaccines are hopeless.

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    Yonason

    Imagine a house fire is like treating COVID with HCQ.

    Allow the fire to burn for hours, then splash a little eatery on it and say “see, water doesn’t save the house.”

    https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/08/Screen-Shot-2021-08-20-at-6.16.09-AM.png?resize=600%2C593&ssl=1

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      Yonason

      #*^%!% spellcheck!!!!!

      Splash a little WATER on it.

      Also, it’s like mistreating rather than treating.

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    Elwood

    “We’ve been living in this incredible bubble.” And there you will stay. It is better to live and die as a free man than to live and die a cowardly slave in an incredible bubble. How low mankind has sunk.

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    Turtle

    Nuke Wuhan.

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    Wow great post Jo.
    For me ,The Dread Covid is no longer the greater problem.

    For with help such as we have experienced these last 16 months,we need no enemies.

    As you rightly point out isolating from a plague buys you time.
    The question is the cost.

    Balancing these conflicting concerns is why we have leaders..
    Who failed miserably.

    Sadly in this case,the time bought has produced very little.
    Is there yet,an agreed upon,effective treatment for persons actually sick with Covid?
    And where are the quick accurate and freely available testing kits?

    If Covid -19 was in fact as dangerous as it was billed, these two things would and should have been the priority.

    As it stands,endless authoritarian theatre,with all our “helpers” exposed as clueless idiots or malicious liars.
    Not to mention their brutal hypocrisy.

    And still they shriek “Trust Us”..And mutter amongst themselves,the effete elites,”Why aren’t those peasants cheering? We saved them..”

    If we had not had,this “expert help” most of us would not have even been aware 2019 was more than a bad flu year.
    As it stands,the Dread Covid has been a wet squib of a pandemic.
    A novel virus to which 80% of those exposed show no reaction?
    (If the shipboard cases are any evidence).

    We have a crisis alright.
    But it is not medical.

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      Analitik

      Time has bought us the more infectious but attenuated Delta variant.

      We have 3 options
      1. Open up with just vaccinations and no change in policy for antivirals and see hospitalisations (with some attendant deaths) soar with the unvaccinated
      2. Stay locked down and vaccinate up to the government levels for opening up (assuming we aren’t bankrupt by then), then wait for the vaccination effects to wane and/or the Lambda variant to arrive and become dominant and see hospitalisations (with some attendant deaths) with the vaccinated
      3. Start using effective antivirals, open up and get on with life and business.

      We have paid the high price of going into limbo. Now let’s use what we purchased with it.

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    • #

      Stasis in the ACT. 16 cases today and similar numbers last 4 days (data is confused on weekend as reporting periods changed so Saturday is short and Sunday long add them and divide by two and same as today and previous days), with still some community (3/16) transmission.

      I’d call it a week of no change after a peak caused by testing of 2 school outbreaks.

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      Tel

      https://epidemic-stats.com/coronavirus/new-zealand

      Not looking like it’s slowing down. Locked down 6 days ago and upwards since then.

      The house might be on fire here, so as a precaution I’ve locked all the doors to keep everyone inside … better safe than sorry.

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    Rod McLaughlin

    Just like Quillette, this site defies groupthink. Climate sceptics tend to be lockdown sceptics too. But Claire Lehman and Joanne Nova defy the trend, while giving credit to sceptics like Farage, defending the Australasian approach. Like Vietnam and Thailand, these countries appeared to be on top of things at the beginning of the pandemic. Now they’re not, and their police forces are going beserk trying to fight a virus with insufficient vaccines.

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