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Old GOP voters are skeptics, so it takes 20 years to recover from education and wise up to the media

From Jo: Bookings close this Sunday.
Jo Nova

Hope to see you in Sydney the weekend after next!

I’ll be speaking with Ian Plimer at the ATA Friedman18 conference.

It’s a great line up of speakers on May 25-27, or come for the Gala dinner.

Get a 10% discount with the code Nova18.

On Climate, There’s A Sharp Generational Divide Within GOP

USNews, Alan Neuhauser

A Pew survey exposed a stark gap between younger and older Republican voters on global warming and energy policy.

 

Neuhauser doesn’t mention it but the implications are pretty dire — look how long it takes to recover from school:

Republican millennials – people roughly ages 22 to 37 – are far less likely than older generations to support the use of coal, oil and other fossil fuel sources. By one count, while three-quarters of Republican baby boomers and older generations supported more offshore oil and gas drilling, fewer than half of millennial Republicans felt the same way.

At least most Republicans grow up:

Among [young and old] Democrats, by contrast, there was only a small divide.

If half the population is shifting in the same direction as they age, this suggests…  something…   what could it be?

There can be a tendency for younger voters to become more conservative as they age. The divide on energy and climate is so broad, however, that experts expect it’s one that will not significantly narrow.

So young believers will not grow up to be old skeptics?

This must be why the numbers of believers in global warming has grown cumulatively since 1990 as young believers grew into old believers, and old believers died… except, that didn’t happen. Over the last quarter century, the only group that has grown in Gallup polls on climate issues  are the skeptics.

Young believers become old skeptics, climate poll, Gallup, 1990 - 2015, Graph.

….

But let’s ask the experts:

I’m not aware of any evidence that they’ll become more like the 65-plus types now and adopt their worldview,” says Anthony Leiserowitz, director of the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication.

It’s research like that that gets you to Yale.

For a democrat journalist there is always hope:

But even with a president occupying the White House who has repeatedly called climate change a “hoax,” the findings may also be a sign of a shift to come within the party: Millennials are set to overtake baby boomers as the largest generation of Americans eligible to vote.

Good luck with that theory.

Here come the excuses.  I mean reasons:

As with those other policy areas, the results in the Pew survey may reflect the different experiences and far greater access to information that younger voters have enjoyed, experts say.

Yup. Young people have more info because old people live in shoeboxes.

And when it comes to experiences —  old people just built companies, raised kids, and paid off houses, but young people have built entire civilizations in MineCraft TM.

Hear them roar:

“I am a millennial – we grew up at a time when the air has been relatively clean and Earth Day existed and the general idea that the planet as a resource that should be preserved is not uncommon,” says Joseph Majkut, director of climate policy at the Niskanen Center, a libertarian think tank. “Millennials also didn’t directly experience things like the fuel crisis in the 1970s, so there’s no hangover from there being fuel controls and other issues like there were for boomers and other folks.”

Old folk are obviously hungover because they’ve been through tough times. But since the real world is a fluffy buttercup, young naive people are so much better placed to understand it.

Note how the experiences of millenials that help them are the experiences they didn’t experience.

This process of growing up and getting wise is now a “fault line”:

The results are the latest to highlight fault lines within the Republican Party, which – even with control of the White House, both houses of Congress and a majority of state legislatures – has struggled to find common ground amid what can seem an ever more fractious caucus.

The fault line in the GOP is that the representatives keep lining up with the young and gullible instead of the old and wise.

The fault line in the Democrats is just between them and the real world.

With more access to gigabyte libraries of information, world tours, and years of study,  it is amazing that yet again, another generation thinks it’s the first smart one born in human history.

REFERENCES

Gallup 2015 poll press release plus Gallop poll questions and results.

9.5 out of 10 based on 69 ratings

109 comments to Old GOP voters are skeptics, so it takes 20 years to recover from education and wise up to the media

  • #

    (…) Among [young and old] Democrats, by contrast, there was only a small divide.(…)

    Australia is NOT a Democracy but its opposite! It is a dictatorship like all monarchies, republics or empires. Only one country in the world is in Democracy! Switzerland.

    Democracy is the people who lead.

    In Switzerland the Swiss propose their laws and vote their laws!
    This is also why people are not educated because, sites of values are not searchable by anyone.

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    • #
      Spetzer86

      The USA is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.

      Democrats have never changed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5bjhOvErmQ

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    • #
      el gordo

      There has been rumour going the rounds that Australia is being governed by a pseudo Marxist dictatorship, but obviously this cannot be verified.

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    • #
      PeterS

      By definition a democracy is a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives. The last bit is what allows us to call all Western forms of government actual democracies. A form of democracy where the people always have control over matters of the state/nation is possible. It would be like having a company where all the employees and shareholders had full control of the running of the company. It would be chaos. What’s really needed is to dispense with the traditional form of democracy and have a style, much like the Swiss whereby they have implemented direct democracy in a controlled way. It gives to the people much more real power of how the nation is run than the Western forms of democracies. It sill has its problems of course. It still doesn’t prevent really bad decisions from being made. After all we are all human and humans make errors of judgement all the time. Now if all nations operated that way imagine what would happen. Over time nations will have different opinions and directions, some good and some evil. All the extremists would congregate to those nations that follow their beliefs. The up side is there would be nations that would be really good and I for one would move to one of them. I can’t move to where the Swiss system is in operation because they have certain ideals that I disagree with very strongly. But in a rich mixture of direct democratic nations I’m sure I would find one that would suit me very nicely. Enough dreaming.

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    ivan

    I can’t help wondering just how much the brainwashing the youngsters get in high school and university plays a part in these leanings?

    As Jo says ‘how long does it take to get over education and learn about the real world?’

    From what I have seen the indoctrination of the young by the church of climatology lasts as long as it is reinforced by the MSM and is happening in all developed countries not just the US. It also lasts longer with the left leaning liberals because they appear to be more gullible.

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      PeterS

      You are asking the wrong question. The right question is why don’t our education establishments teach their students all the available raw and unadulterated evidence irrespective of the world-view in question, and let the students interpret the evidence using their critical thinking and logic skills. Of course that’s where critical thinking and logic skills need to be developed first otherwise it simply becomes a waste of time feeding evidence to students. They can spend their early years, say up to the age of 12 developing such skills along with other essential skills like arithmetic, reading and writing skills, etc.. Leading up to that age they could introduce simple real life examples of how such skills are applied to come up with the most appropriate and correct answer. At Universities they can be fed with the more complex evidence, such as climate change data to come up with the most appropriate answer. Oh dear! That’s what Universities were originally doing! A community of teachers and scholars seeking the truth. Today they are more of an indoctrination camp for the left.

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      • #
        el gordo

        The young will quickly come over to our side when the media gives us equal time, then the education system will adjust to accept this new paradigm.

        High school offers the best chance for reeducating the masses. In their lifetime there has been no global warming and yarns about the end of the world have been highly exaggerated.

        Being in a rebellious mood they will revolt against AGW, but first we need the ABC to come clean on imminent global cooling and why CO2 can’t stop it.

        51

        • #
          PeterS

          Let me know when the ABC gives equal time to right wing and left wing ideals.

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          • #
            el gordo

            The only reason Aunty doesn’t discuss real climate change is simply because we lack political champions, so the Coalition ginger group needs to become educated on the science before Xmas.

            In casual ‘door stops’ they could expound the meaning of everything and the ABC would give us plenty of air time.

            We can win this debate.

            32

            • #
              PeterS

              Yes we can wind this debate, and win it comfortably. We just need people to stop listening to the mainstream politicians, academic experts, MSM, with very few exceptions and start doing their own research. It’s a tall order and it won’t happen for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the fact most people can’t be bothered and prefer to take the easy and more comfortable choice of trusting and believing what they see and read in the MSM. Let’s wait and see what the the outcome is at the next federal election. That will be the litmus test of public apathy. If a majority government is formed by the LNP or ALP+Greens then it’s business as usual. If on the other hand the ACP+ON hold the balance of power then it will give me some hope the public are starting to wake up and sensing we need a change of direction away from the two parties.

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              • #
                el gordo

                The Coalition is still on a hiding to nothing, even after the Budget sweeteners, and if the ginger group continues in lukewarm mode then they will all be cast into the political wilderness.

                ‘The Essential poll has the Government lifting a point to be 48 per cent to Labor’s 52.

                ‘Newspoll had no change: 49% to 51.

                ‘Ipsos had the Government crashing: 46% to 54.’

                Andrew Bolt

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              • #
                PeterS

                You sound almost convinced the ginger group will perform some sort of coup and get rid of Turnbull and his cohorts. Even if that happens there is no guarantee the people will be in favour of it and swing back strongly to the LNP. I hope you are right on both accounts. As I said before a more viable option is for the ginger group to quit and join the ACP and turbo charge it to a real force in politics. I just can’t see the numbers in favour of the a change in LNP leadership. Of course things can change very quickly in politics as we all know. The next 12 months will certainly be critical to the future of this nation.

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              • #
                el gordo

                The cost of energy is coming down and the PM can take credit for that, by demanding the foreign owned gas companies give us a bit of slack.

                We have wandered off post, but I’ll leave you with this. Decentralisation will become the big issue at the elections, the people reckon the cities are full and Malcolm has a few self funded rail infrastructure projects ready to go.

                ‘John Graham, a Labour MP on the Committee, said many regional infrastructure proposals are now being undervalued and that projects local communities “know make economic sense” are being refused.

                ‘The Grattan report said a new discount rate regime would “cast fresh light” on the value of infrastructure projects across Australia.’

                SMH

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              • #
                OriginalSteve

                The inherent failure of Socialism requires a draconian security apparatus to punish and control the population once the population realize ( quickly ) that rank Socialism is ultimately a pup.

                As such, once the population under Shortonideas suffers under power outages and people die, the gummint can only do so much invoking patriotism and jingoism until they then have to show their true colours and people will at that point realize they have been had……

                Then you will see why there are school-based holding centres and once we move to a largely cashless society, all the Commie govt has to do is tighten up or stop someones credit and they will shut up quickly….the controls will largely be electronic and unseen.

                We have the NBN which forces everyone onto a media that can be easily and quickly shut down, monitored and controlled….

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                Joe

                PeterS, you seem to be the only one here who consistently spruiks for Cory Bernardi. Cory’s party is generally thought of as one of the ‘Christian Right’. Regardless of his view on globull warming, Australia does not embrace the Evangelical Christian movement in its politics in the same way as it is embraced in the US political system. And I don’t say that to denigrate yourself or any others here that may identify as Evangelical Christians. There was a good series of discussions on the Conversation last month about religion and politics. I think that here in Oz the Catholic and Anglican churches still have a stronger sway but that may change with time. I think too that we see a lot of the downside of mixing religion with government in places like the USA and some of the middle eastern countries. Intentionally or not we often joke about how the whole global warming thing is being ’embraced like a religion’, I am not sure that there is actually any correlation between being religious and having a better grasp on science, or even being skeptical about matters of science. The fact that Cory is with us on the global warming stuff might just be happy coincidence.
                We seem to have made the term skeptical® our own pertaining to just being skeptical of global warming but it would be interesting to see if there was a similar result for skepticism about other topics that are scientific in nature and there are plenty of good c. theories around to start with that I know every one here would not be 97% on.

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                PeterS

                Joe, you ask some very pertinent questions and I like the way you think. Yes Bernardi is what he is but I’m not so concerned about his religious beliefs or non-beliefs. There are all types on both sides of the CAGW debate. I don’t think it’s wrong to say though that most leftists are atheists, in particular the Marxist/Stalin/communist kind. Also there are Christians who believe in the CAGW story but I feel there are many more who don’t or are skeptical, at least the ones I meet. Having said that I tend not to mix religion with climate change talk since they are not directly related, no more so that say mixing people’s eating habits with CAGW. Where there is a relationship is the critical thinking employed in scientific research to get closer and closer to the truth using honest and reliable interpretations of the available evidence, and not to make assumptions that are at best doubtful and at worst easily falsified. That’s the trend I see in most scientific research activities today, in particular climate change and evolution (cosmological, chemical, biological, macro and micro) which have been for a long time and still are my favourite topics of study. The critical thinking part is what crosses them (and other topics) and it gives the allusion that religion and climate change are directly related when they are not. So I treat them in isolation to keep things as uncomplicated as possible. I also find philosophy challenging and interesting (being of Greek origin is probably the reason I suppose).

                BTW, I do not know Bernardi very well since he hasn’t exposed himself to the public as much as he ought to have by now. In that respect I have to reserve my judgement about him but going by his policies I much prefer him to be the leader of the nation than any of the clowns in the Turnbull or Shorten circuses. Of course he won’t be the leader but I do hope he can be a circuit breaker to stop this nation heading over the cliff, or at least try. I doubt he will succeed though going by his polling and lack of popularity, which you rightly say is partially due to his Christian beliefs, which is becoming more and more of a handicap all over the West. Oddly enough though the country where Christianity is growing the most is China with already one of the largest fully fledged Christian nation (Eastern Orthodox as distinct from the Western Christian denominations). I’m not casting any judgement here, just stating the facts.

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              • #
                PeterS

                Correction on the last sentence. I meant to say:

                Oddly enough though the country where Christianity is growing the most is China with Russia already one of the largest fully fledged Christian nation (Eastern Orthodox as distinct from the Western Christian denominations). I’m not casting any judgement here, just stating the facts.

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            • #
              PeterS

              OriginalSteve, yes all good possible predictions. Don’t forget though the “big brother” might not in fact be leftist but in fact nationalistic/fascist/extreme right-wing. It will depend on who at the time is the strongest and ready to pounce. Also it’s pretty obvious a tag of some form will be required in a cashless society to monitor all purchases and movements by the citizens. The technology is already here of course and it will only get more advanced.

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    • #
      WXcycles

      ” … I can’t help wondering just how much the brainwashing the youngsters get in high school and university plays a part in these leanings?

      As Jo says ‘how long does it take to get over education and learn about the real world?’ …”
      —-

      Teenagers convince themselves they know it all regardless of schools, ciriculum settings or dodgy teachers. Being willfully assertive seems to be part of the teen hormonal responses to the need to become independent, physically and mentally.

      Dumbness is assured and built in, especially where responsible mentoring parents and older good-natured siblings are absent.

      Open citizen-Democracy is an even greater invitation to unceasing mass propaganda abuses than the worst of dictatorships is, as the incentive us to never cease to push and pull and terrorise and stampeed us in every available ideological, values and belief direction.

      And the young are easily the most ignorant, gullible, naive and manipulatable, and the most convinced by ‘their own’ learned opinions, especially the ‘higher-educated’ ones (who are particularly idiotic for way longer than the rest).

      The responsibility and associated risks/rewards of being genuinely physically independent of supports and bailout is what makes us DECIDE to wise up, and make better decisions.

      Socialism is antithesis, hence many people may DECIDE that they can afford make bad decisons, and be more idiotic, for longer, before suffering the feedback, blowback and consequences.

      Reap what you sew.

      Except the socialist sentiments affected and dominated young (they want the ‘Independence’, they just don’t want to pay to have it, gimme a magic-pudding!) want everyone else to reap their consequences, and reap their costs.

      ” … Is that Fair? … ” – Obummer

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      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        I can answer this question..
        https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-brain-fully-developed/

        It may seem logical that those aged 18 to 25 are completely mature, the brain still is maturing – specifically the area known as the “prefrontal cortex.” Changes occurring between ages 18 and 25 are essentially a continued process of brain development that started during puberty. When you’re 18, you’re roughly halfway through the entire stage of development. The prefrontal cortex doesn’t have nearly the functional capacity at age 18 as it does at 25.

        Wiki will explain the rest…

        The function of the frontal lobe involves the ability to project future consequences resulting from current actions, the choice between good and bad actions (or better and best) (also known as conscience), the override and suppression of socially unacceptable responses, and the determination of similarities and differences between things or events.

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  • #
    TinyCO2

    I fear that growing up is getting later and later in life. My nearest and dearest millennials aren’t showing any evidence of adulthood and they’re romping up to 30. They aren’t learning about the value of energy because they’re still not paying the bills. They live in a cotton wool world where hard choices don’t have to be made. Why not demand utopia if you’re not paying for it? At the same time they’re buying more, flying more and consuming more than any generation before them. Scary.

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    • #
      Binny

      True 30s is the new 20s. My theory is, it’s to do with everyone living longer, and healther. You don’t really feel the pressure of adulthood, until you notice your parents getting old.
      200 years ago adulthood was mid teens – Hell I can remember an episode of Happy Days when the father was bemoaning the fact that he was 40.

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    • #
      Latus Dextro

      The Progressives’ infantilisation of society is the curse of fascism and its philosophical bedfellow Marxism. It betrays both motive and MO. The Left, cultivating and encouraging the pathology of Statist co-dependence in all its various forms deepen this regression into dependency. It plays out daily.

      As individuals mature, many inevitably begin to sense the collective for the first time. More obviously manifest in academia, the MSM, local councils and national corporations. They sense it not because they’ve suddenly acquired ‘critical thought’ aka. ‘Saul on the road to Damascus’, but incrementally as they sense an inverse subliminal resistance to their maturation and developing independence that becomes increasingly overt.

      Independence, self-responsibility, critical thought, freedom of speech are anathema to any collective, whether motivated by ideology that spurns personal wealth and industry as oppression of the workers (Marx) or whether by ideology that exalts the national collective with the government as a controlling parent or god-like figure (Facism, thanks to Giovanni Gentile, friend of Karl Marx).

      The cultivation of independence and critical thought in the young can be flavoured with a little judicious ridicule as required (they’re well habituated to ridicule as a prima facie ‘argument’ – it’s Leftist SOP taught to them).

      This can often be the catalyst to an introduction to the red pill. After that, they become exothermic.

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  • #
    Curious George

    This shows the power of the institutions of higher learning .. oops .. higher brainwashing.

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      robert rosicka

      Because I use my real name I won’t tell you what my kids were taught on a couple of subjects that made me fall of my chair at the time , brainwashing certainly fits but it’s much worse than that because once programmed its been almost impossible to undo the damage done .
      If I repeated it here the comment would end up in moderation anyway .

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  • #
    Jim

    In all reality, it depends if you are given a liberal or conservative education. Liberal meaning question all, and conservative meaning rote. In other words, 2+2=4 or 2x+2x=4x. Which one is right? One or the other? Or both? It’s not a paradigm, but to be taught to SE possible, outcomes, and devise solutions. Both sides fall for the same propaganda..therefore(?) Both are bad or being fed a line that “x” is wrong without proof, but, the collar is also correct.
    My problem is they are both yelling”liar, liar, pants on fire” instead of telling the truth. And I still say, it not a problem that you throw money at to correct. I don’t see government vans pulling up to a volcano to dump gold into it, or greenbacks or virgins. Never worked in the past, and won’t work in the future.

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    • #
      PeterS

      The crux of the problems is debt. Never in the history of mankind has any nation escaped the debt trap they set for themselves when governments pile up more and more it to “drug” the populace into a false sense of security and eternal growth. Eventually the bill has to be paid and the collapse ensures. The only way to escape this trap is to move to another country but if the whole world suffers then we have nowhere to go. Meanwhile as you say each side is yelling to the other but it’s not their pants that are in fire but in the background a fire is raging and continually being fuelled to grow more and more. Eventually the fire will engulf us all and people will then see the elephant in the room so to speak but of course by then it’s way too late to do anything about it. The best we can do is pick up the pieces and start over again; until the next time.

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  • #
    Clyde Spencer

    Except that, those of us who are old now, attended school before it was corrupted by liberal ideologues. We learned to think independently. So, that doesn’t bode well for our youth eventually growing out of their indoctrination. Schools have to be ‘cleansed’ of the mold growing in them and the MSM has to be forced to be objective and even-handed instead of promoting ideology.

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I agree.

      We also as old folk have the responsibility to teach the younger ones to think independently and critically.
      A weekend out in the bush without access to electronic group think ( facebook, anti-social media ) is a good place to start…..

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      • #
        robert rosicka

        I still remember the bumper sticker ,
        “I teach my kids to fish and hunt , not steal and deal “.

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    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      The Main Stream Media has a lot to answer for. They are the bastions of stupid, and they uphold stupid as an ideal. The celebrate stupid with fan-fare, and award the non-useful, dysfunctional, and brainless. They are not the guardians of politics that they used to be, (if they ever were that in the first place.)

      11

  • #

    If you turn off all TV news are current affairs it’s amazing the stuff you stop believing. With television on even the most technically educated can be persuaded that there is car upholstery floating intact in space or that a bomb which couldn’t even melt the plastic bag and bucket it was in was a fanatic’s attack on distraught commuters. Television off…you won’t believe the first for a moment and you won’t get fired up by the second. You will question more, even if you believe. The other enemy is the printed headline and ordering of printed news, which can make wars go away. Stop reading headlines, the predecessor of the box.

    Everything hinges on realising how potent that box has been and how maliciously and malevolently its potency has been used. Even now, the worst people are working out how to twist new media. But control will never be as tight, uniform and programmed as with the box.

    Things are looking bad, but we can take comfort in the decline of the box. Mis-education and conditioning of millennials has been dire…but as those millennials step out of education and into employment (or unemployment) the great tool of the manipulators can’t reach them as well as it used to. The big fibbers know it, which is why, even at the peak of their power, they are worried and desperate. Let’s make ’em more worried and desperate.

    I’m still not perfect on ignoring headlines as I sort through sites to get an idea on what’s happening, but I’ve disciplined myself to turn off the box as soon as Rugby League or cricket end around 6pm. On most days, I don’t even turn it on.

    Start with turning off the box. No confected news, no Karl, no Lisa, no Kochie, no Leigh, no tick-tick-tick to sour Sunday evenings. They can’t reach me, but I know if I turn them on they will. Because the box is that powerful and I’m just little me.

    That knob or button on your remote. Use it for you, not for them. Turn them off and leave them off.

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      sophocles

      Even now, the worst people are working out how to twist new media. But control will never be as tight, uniform and programmed as with the box.

      Not for a while yet, but think about Facebook … urk! There’s not a lot further to go.

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        Latus Dextro

        I was just going to allude to Farcebook and Twatter. The Goolag is already well into Search Engine Manipulation Effect (SEME) … see … A method for detecting bias in search rankings, with evidence of systematic bias related to the 2016 Presidential election Epstein, Robertson, Sheperd & Zhang, and Epstein and Robertson (2015) PNAS

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    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      I need to hit the up-vote one Google times.
      The msm is the principle culprit in the stupefying of society.

      21

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      If you were Satan and you really wanted to hit the people as hard as you could; you’d aim at higher education and broadcast TV. It’s a no-brainer really.

      31

  • #
    Mark M

    O/T.

    Frydenberg says on CNN the Turnbull government has a emission reduction target of over 50%!

    Just like LaboUr!

    Are we being lied to?

    What has the UN/Hillary Elite Australian politicians sign deplorable Australian workers up to in Paris 2015?

    2.01secs: http://www.joshfrydenberg.com.au/guest/InterviewsDetails.aspx?id=1476

    Warning: clear immediate area of liquids and anything throwable at computer screen when viewing entire interview.

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    • #
      Mark M

      Australia’s 2030 Emission Reduction Target

      The Australian Government has agreed a target of 26-28 per cent below 2005 levels by 2030.

      http://www.environment.gov.au/climate-change/government/australias-emissions-reduction-target

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    • #

      Frydenberg (global bank desk) swapping lies with CNN (CIA) and doing their bit to damage an important part of Australia’s tourist industry. (At least Wolf Creek was privately financed, but don’t give Josh any ideas about funding Wolf Reef to scare away tourists.) Because, you see, in a “smart” economy all you need is financial juggling and soft government agency through stooge media or NGOs. Productivity is so last millennium.

      Frydenberg, Turnbull and Bishop are not doing any of this in error. They are Australia-negative and globalist to the core. How we sack these carpetbaggers without ushering in Shorten and that smirking sheila is a bit of a quandary. Maybe another palace coup will have to do. But whoever takes the reins will need to go to war with the ABC, Murdoch etc.

      The chances of success are slim, and there can be no niceties. Maybe the ABC can be reduced in a cynical deal with Murdoch and Fairfax? I dunno. But there’s no point in putting in a new leadership that’s even slightly Australia-positive if we’re going to expose it to the present media landscape. Remember Abbott’s wink, Abbott’s onion and Abbott’s swimming togs. Remember that penetrating journalism showing Turnbull taking the train instead of a helicopter.

      The media will have no trouble making something of nothing. It’s what they do all day long…when they’re not making nothing of something.

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        el gordo

        At the moment the punters see Julie Bishop as the Opposition leader after the next election and she believes AGW is real.

        Intuitively I sense there is a man in the Liberal back bench ginger group who can muster the support of his colleagues to mount a coup against Talcum’s clique.

        Any ideas who that might be?

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “There seems to be no reason to believe this except the pressure of a keen desire for it to be true”

    A quote from Bill Bryson’s “Shakespeare” but seems applicable to CAGW etc.

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  • #
    Another Ian

    Re recovering from education

    “Shocking data on left-wing ideological homegeneity of tenure-track faculty at 51 of top 66 elite colleges: 132:1 ratio of Democrats to Republicans at Williams, 19.6:1 at Union, zero Repub anthropology professors anywhere, overall: >10 Ds for every 1 R https://t.co/XMHEDutjOn

    — Christopher Chabris (@cfchabris) May 13, 2018″

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/05/15/whats-the-opposite-of-diversity-3/

    Plus comments

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    Another Ian

    More to be sceptical of. Science in more trouble – medicine particularly!

    “Yale has created a special undergraduate laboratory course that aims to enhance minority students’ “feelings of identifying as a scientist.” It does so by being “non-prescriptive” in what students research; they develop their own research questions. But “feelings” are only going to get you so far without mastery of the building blocks of scientific knowledge. Mastering those building blocks involves the memorisation of facts, among other skills. Assessing student knowledge of those facts can produce disparate results. The solution is to change the test or, ideally, eliminate it. A medical school supervisor recently advised a professor to write an exam that was less “fact-based” than the one he had proposed, even though knowledge of pathophysiology and the working of drugs, say, entails knowing facts.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/05/15/but-remembering-facts-is-hard/

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    Binny

    When you’re younger, you’re a lot more affected by fashion and social/peer pressure.

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    Ian1946

    Just go to Facebook and comment on threads such as greenpower. Any comment that points out solar only works during the day and windmills only work when the wind is blowing brings a torrent of personal abuse. They never have a science or engineering based argument just a blind faith in renewables. I guess this is mainly due to mathematics and physics being shunned as it is too difficult for then to comprehend.

    This is shown by Millennials on checkouts who can’t work out change because they are innumerate. I despair for the future.

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      Graeme No.3

      The solution is to have the register print the amount of change. The problem is that they won’t read it. Recent experience at the supermarket where it took 6 attempts to get the correct change.
      MEMO: In future take the line with the older operator.

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        Greg in NZ

        For fun, I often ask young checkout operators (high-school kids working part-time) to count my change backwards… huh? So I ask for my change, then count it back into their hands… they are amazed – astounded! – like I’ve just performed a magic trick. When I ask them to count it back to me… again, that look of huh? I take my change, say thank you, and leave them to it… who knows, maybe they’ll try it at home.

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        Ian Hill

        They can’t cope with the fifty cent coin, especially in combination with other coins!

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  • #

    It doesn’t happen every day, but I do sometimes meet millennials (and the ones who came just before – GenY?) who, in spite of all the garbage they have been fed on the box and elsewhere, from kiddies programs through to so-called university, all the pressure from (anti)social media, the enormous pressure from peers, are, if not outright deniers, at least confirmed skeptics. They are one of the reasons why humankind has progressed, and will continue to progress. I do my best to encourage them. As one observed, “this is real Warcraft”. (Or it might have been “Minecraft”)

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    Robdel

    I know a couple of oldies who have not grown up at all. But then they vote Green! No point in arguing the facts of cagw with them. Their minds are already set in concrete.

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      Ian1946

      Leftism really does seem to be a mental disorder along the lines of being afraid of independent thought.

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        WXcycles

        Yes!

        They are avoiding independence, as independence is intrinsically self-funded, or there is none, and that is against their fundamental values.

        Hence, group-think it part ‘n parcel of fighting against independence taking root, all over the place, which is desasterous.

        Business is the worst offender, as it allows people to pay for themselves, and people who can pay for themselves, can afford to think for themselves, and speak freely, and you can’t shut them up—so business is the enema, and has to go!

        The logic of left dependency and consensus is simple and quite impecable.

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      PeterS

      I meet one recently at a party. He made the comment how hot the world is becoming. After his long speech I told him how cold it was now where we were and how the world is experiencing unusual cold weather of late. He went silent and looked like his brain froze up and had nothing to say. I was expecting some debate but I was mildly disappointed. Goes to show they don’t have the ability to think outside their delusional world.

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    Mark D.

    I’m the father of three millennial young men. They were raised in a consistently conservative and sceptical household. My observation is that they will not argue with their left leaning friends because they view it as futile. Further, they are likely not to bother voting at all for the same reason.

    We should be gravely concerned about this. 20 years is too long for them to finally come around and get active in politics and to get a spine with regard to standing firm and being willing to argue with the enemy.

    We older gen-boomers need to start coaching the silent millennials on how to get involved. If we don’t I fear the worst.

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      Dennis

      I first became aware of a New World Order agenda while listening to ABC Radio National and later I purchased the transcript which I still have.

      That was during the 1990s and when I spoke to family and friends about it I was either politely ignored or told that NWO was fiction. Over the years/decades I have raised the subject from time to time on many forums and have noted the growing interest and awareness but also, that the politicians are way out in front ahead of the following becoming aware voters.

      For example, how many voters realise that local government has been working in committees or groups of council districts combining on UN Agenda 21 and Agenda 30? That much of what not happy people refer to as green regulations are all about UN agenda? Green tape combined with red tape has handicapped the Australian economy and the vandalism continues and grows. And the politicians tell us they are creating jobs, etc.

      Renewable energy and subsidies, if we are aware of the European experiences our politicians most certainly would be. But when I recently wrote a lengthy email letter to my local MP and sent various links to this website earlier from time time my letter finally resulted in a formal letter with attachments response by mail. Propaganda material from the federal and state ministers responsible for energy. And an annoying comment noting my recommendation for nuclear power stations. I did not recommend, I wrote that if coal fired power stations cannot be considered for future needs then ignore wind and solar and go for nuclear.

      And too many people I know fail to appreciate the high cost to community of unreliable intermittent supply renewable energy other than hydro. They also seem to like the idea of EV to replace those polluting ICEV. Ask them where the electricity would come from and the answer usually is from renewables.

      I don’t give up but often feel like it.

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        Sceptical Sam

        Re: EVs vs ICEVs

        . Ask them where the electricity would come from and the answer usually is from renewables.

        There was an interesting article on this in the March edition of the “Australian Rationalist”. It was a response to a silly piece in the December edition.

        Well worth a read.

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      el gordo

      One in five Australians think AGW is a hoax and no doubt their children and grandchildren know their bent, but the propaganda has been intense, so its only natural that the young should believe the media, politicians and scientists.

      The ABC is particularly culpable through the distortion of news on climate change and energy, which is why we need balance. This shouldn’t be happening in a democracy

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        Dennis

        No, including elected representatives supporting public servants, encouraging them, to produce deceptive data.

        Example the several exposures of BoM faulty data.

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      Sceptical Sam

      Twenty years has some provenance.

      Take the age old saying :

      “Anyone who is not a socialist at 20 years of age has no heart, while anyone who is still a socialist at 40 has no head.”

      Such behaviour has persisted for at least a century or more, it would seem.

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    PeterS

    More people really need to study the novel 1984 by George Orwell. It has many great lessons of what happens when people are continually fed BS and don’t think, as it happening today more and more. For now people have the power to change things by resetting the system and stop voting for the major parties to break the nexus. If not then we will continue to lose more and more of our freedoms and eventually become a full blown dictatorship out of necessity more than anything else. People will eventually prefer a dictatorship to make life simpler and avoid the necessity to think for themselves in a more and more complex world. Virtual reality and advanced robots with AI will accelerate that process. As for the older generation coming into play to teach the younger generation about the dangers of where we are heading – forget it. You will be slapped with some kind of anti-discrimination law, if not now then pretty soon. As I said we still have the time to change things but I doubt the populace are awake to see the need. Most are too busy with their own problems and games in life to worry about the health and direction of the nation, to their own detriment long term. The simple truth is we can dream and hope things do get better as much as we like but they can’t without the government changing for the better, and that requires the people to think before they vote.

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      Dennis

      A question was asked about when George Brandis formed the Liberal Party Faction Black Hand.

      The answer given was 1984.

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        PeterS

        Hmmm. That explain a lot. Mind you I don’t think they knew back then how evil their actions were. We are now seeing the fruits of such evil actions. You have given me another reason not to support ALP nor LNP, but of course I will more likley support the ACP if given the opportunity, not that will change things given most people are still asleep and will still vote ALP or LNP in robotic fashion.

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    Dave in the States

    It is amazing what a dose of real life and going to work at real jobs can do. One of my nephews was a Obama worshiping and true AGW believer when he graduated high school in 2010. Completely indoctrinated. Now after only 8 years of real life, struggling to to find his way, he has changed 180 degrees. You should hear him rip renewable energy, especially wind mills. Cracks me up.

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    pat

    14 May: Breitbart: Physicist: Climate Scientists Are Giving Science a Bad Name
    by James Delingpole
    Climate scientists are giving science a bad name, says a leading atmospheric physicist in an essay on the global warming debate.

    Professor Garth Paltridge, formerly a chief scientist with Australia’s Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) Division of Atmospheric Research, says that the behavior of certain members of the climate science establishment is “seriously threatening the public’s perception of the professionalism of scientists in general.”

    Many climate scientists are much less sure about man-made global warming than they will admit in public, he says. But rather than reach out to skeptics in order to open up the debate and explore the uncertainties, they have instead closed ranks and rubbished anyone who disagrees with them…

    Their high-handedness, Paltridge says, is redolent of “medieval religion”…
    But the medieval priests eventually lost the battle. As will the climate alarmists because the public simply do not trust them…READ ALL
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/05/14/physicist-climate-scientists-are-giving-science-a-bad-name/

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      PeterS

      I eagerly await for the vast majority of scientists to admit to the world the catastrophic climate change story is a hoax. Can I hold my breadth while waiting? I’m afraid not. For starters if they did that most will lose their funding and many will lose their jobs. They are human like the rest of us and so their courage and honesty is trumped by their selfishness. That’s assuming most in fact do have doubts about the story. I’m willing to say that most do not and in fact do believe in their own BS.

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        Peter C

        Peter S,

        A year ago I thought the same; Why don’t the normal Good Scientists in all disciplines jettison the Climate idiots and save the reputation of their Noble discipline? Why have they circled the wagons and pretended (or assumed) that skeptics exposing the fantastic projections of Climate Science is an attack on all Science?

        A new report by a group calling themselves the National Association of Scholars (NAS) explains it all.
        https://www.nas.org/articles/nas_launches_new_report_the_irreproducibility_crisis

        Put simply; there are no Good Scientists! They have all been at it, in every discipline.

        Medical Research , which ought to be the best behaved, is likely the second worst, if not even the very worst.

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          PeterS

          Yes Peter C I came to that conclusion several years ago after researching a number of topics, not just climate change. I believe many famous scientists like Newton, Faraday, Mendel, Einstein, and many others would be shocked at how science is conducted today. It’s actually more akin to philosophy in many aspects. I see so many scientists today making more and more assumptions to get over the problems they face instead of dumping their theories and starting afresh. My favourite is the Big Bang theory, which I have studied very deeply given my background as a Physicist. What they are doing now is using more unknowns to explain known unknowns. It’s becoming a joke. There is a common thread in all of it – the spread of atheism. [[[Shields up!]]]

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    pat

    old Republican (RINO) pretends to believe:

    15 May: TheLocalAustria: AFP: (Arnold) Schwarzenegger tells Trump to ‘join us’ on climate action
    “To those of you who resist because you can’t imagine success without fossil fuels, we ask you to join us, every one, also you President Trump – join us,” said Schwarzenegger, prompting applause from the audience gathered for the Austrian World Summit.
    The summit is organised by Schwarzenegger’s R20 climate NGO and has brought together business and political leaders, including UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres, as well as climate change experts and activists…

    “You said when you become president you want to have so many victories, that the American people would get sick and tired of winning. Well if that’s really what you want, then join us because then you will have a lot of victories,” Schwarzenegger went on…
    Schwarzenegger called for drastic action on pollution, saying it killed nine million people every year.

    ***He pointed to the importance of promoting renewable energy, praising countries and businesses which had already made strides in this direction.

    Earlier Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz addressed the summit, but was interrupted by a protester who took to the stage to highlight what she called the Austrian government’s “empty words” on climate change…
    Kurz allowed the protestor to make a statement before taking back the microphone to make his own speech.
    https://www.thelocal.at/20180515/schwarzenegger-tells-trump-to-join-us-on-climate-action

    Wikipedia: R20 Regions of Climate Action, Headquarters: Geneva, Switzerland
    The R20 – Regions of Climate Action is a non-profit environmental organization founded in November 2010, by former Governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, with the support of the United Nations…

    R20 is a coalition of sub-national governments, private companies, international organizations, NGOs, and academic & financial institutions.
    Its mission is to help sub-national governments to implement low-carbon and climate-resilient projects, as well as to share best practices in renewable energy and energy efficiency in order to build a “green economy”…

    Governance Board
    The current President is Magnus Berntsson – President of the Regional Council of Västra Götaland and President of the AER (Assembly of European Regions). The R20 Executive Director is Dr. Christophe Nuttall, former Director of the Hub for Innovative Partnerships at the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP). The Strategic Advisor to the Founding Chair is Terry Tamminen, the CEO of the Leonardo DiCaprio Foundation and the former Secretary of the California Environmental Protection Agency…
    The organization also has affiliate offices in the USA (Santa Monica), Algeria (Oran), Brazil (Rio de Janeiro) and China (Beijing)…

    As of November 2016, R20 has 49 direct members (both national & sub-national authorities) and 134 businesses and project facilitators (academic institutions, national agencies, NGOs, private companies, UN programs and Intergovernmental organizations), and 41 investors and financial institutions.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R20_Regions_of_Climate_Action

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    pat

    old Democrat who believes, but daren’t continue to use his NextGenClimate moniker, as it failed to gain traction in 2016:

    Wikipedia: Tom Steyer
    In 2013, Steyer founded NextGen Climate (now NextGen America), an environmental advocacy nonprofit and political action committee…Steyer spent almost $74 million on the 2014 elections.

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      pat

      don’t know how my comment got posted before I finished it.

      continuing:

      another absolute lovefest. climate gets mentioned, but only briefly in first 10 mins. towards the end, he brings up Trump pulling out of Paris. ends of course with talks of running for the Presidency in 2020. this guy is such a zealot throughout and the ABC journos are sickening, never more so than when they feign offence over the obnoxious mother’s day ad, whilst repeating it on a side screen over and over:

      VIDEO: 21mins49secs: 15 May: ABC America: Impeaching Trump will galvanize Dems: Tom Steyer on Powerhouse Politics with Jonathan Karl and Rick Klein
      By Avery Miller
      “Are we actually going to do what the writers of the Constitution, the Founders of our country gave us to do if we have a reckless and lawless president? Or are we going to try and slip it under the rug and pretend it’s not happening?,” Steyer told ABC News’s Chief White House Correspondent Jon Karl and Political Director Rick Klein on the Powerhouse Politics podcast that was also streamed live.

      Steyer is putting his money where his mouth is. In 2013, Steyer, who is a billionaire hedge fund manager, founded a non-profit called “Next Gen America,” an organization focusing on health care, climate change, immigration, and education.

      Last year, he added “Need to Impeach,” a partisan movement dedicated to trying to expel President Donald Trump from office. Steyer has spent at least $40 million for “Need to Impeach” and an additional $30 million to get millennials into voting booths in November. Just over five million people have signed the “Need to Impeach” petition, calling on Congress to impeach President Trump. The petition says “Donald Trump has brought us to the brink of nuclear war, obstructed justice, and taken money from foreign governments. We need to impeach this dangerous president.” …

      Klein brought up a recent, controversial ad that Steyer’s group Next Gen America had financed and produced, although it argued it had spent only $1,000 to distribute it. Entitled “Mother’s Day,” the script warns parents about the dangers of joining the Republican Party. Steyer insists it’s meant “tongue-in-cheek,” but much of the imagery is jarring. It presents a mother fretting that her son, who is white, is taking the “wrong path” and insulting immigrants and supporting neo-Nazis. The final image is a mother drinking a cocktail, wishing she had intervened earlier in her son’s partisan ways.

      “Yes that [the ad] was a joke, and it was supposed to be funny. And actually, it is pretty funny. But to have a party say oh my gosh you’re equating us with racist policies. They’re following racist policies. If they don’t want to be called racist, tell them to stop being racist,” Steyer said…

      ***Klein and Karl termed the ad offensive, but Steyer defended it…

      So with all his political passion, does Steyer plan to run for the highest office in the land? He said it all depends on the mid-terms and what happens to Democrats. “We have no idea what is going to happen in the mid-term elections this year, and we’re going to be in a completely different position as a country. I have no idea what we’re going to be, and neither does any pollster, and neither do you guys as smart as you are.”
      https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/impeaching-trump-galvanize-dems-tom-steyer-powerhouse-politics/story?id=55152708

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    pat

    remainder of comment beginning “old Democrat who believes” has gone into moderation.

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      Dennis

      My comment above, reply to Mark D is also in moderation and I cannot understand why.

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        WXcycles

        So did one of mine.

        Anyway, the best antidote to this morasse of immaturity is to have your children never aim to work for the public ‘sector’, but start a business and self-employ, answerable to no one, not even to a bank loan, and not be dependents of other employers, as then they can think and say whatever they need to, can’t be gagged with financial or employment threats, and will necessarily make the smarter more viable choices that actually work for them, and for society more generally.

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  • #

    Democracy is the people who govern.

    As soon as the people give their votes to Deputies / Senators, these tutors for the mentally handicapped can do what they want!
    It is for this reason that in dictatorships the voted laws are rejected by the People.
    In Switzerland there is no strike, no demonstration.

    The head / head of state is elected for 1 year (1/1 to 31/12).

    The head of state or have no bodyguard!
    They drive their car!
    Shop at supermarkets!
    That’s it !!

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    La Démocratie c’est le Peuple qui gouverne.
    Dès lors que le Peuple remet ses votes à des Députés/Sénateurs, ces tuteurs pour handicapés mentaux peuvent faire ce qu’ils veulent !
    C’est pour çà qu’en dictatures les lois votées sont rejetées par le Peuple.
    En Suisse il n’y a pas de gréve, pas de manifestation.
    Le ou la chef/cheffe d’État est élu(e) pour 1 an (1/1 au 31/12).
    La ou le chef d’État n’ont pas de garde du corps !!
    Ils conduisent leur voiture !
    Font leurs courses aux supermarchés !
    Çà alors !!

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    pat

    16 May: Bloomberg: U.S. Judge Blocks Oakland Port’s Ban on Coal Shipments
    By Joe Ryan
    U.S. miners see terminal as key link to overseas markets
    Coal ban part of broad environmental push to thwart shipments
    The ban enacted by the city in 2014 violates a development agreement, U.S. District Judge Vince Chhabria said Tuesday in a 37-page ruling…

    Oakland is among several terminals in California and the Pacific Northwest that environmentalists have pushed to close to miners in an effort to keep U.S. coal off the international market. Reversing the ban could increase exports by as much as 19 percent, according to the Sierra Club.

    The National Mining Association cheered the ruling. “It is gratifying to see a case where the judge ruled on the facts,” Ashley Burke, a spokeswoman for the group, said in an email. “Local governments, working with activist environmental groups, cannot be allowed to obstruct and steer interstate and foreign commerce decisions on behalf of the country.”…

    The ruling is an “unfortunate setback,” according to The Sierra Club…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-15/oakland-port-ban-on-coal-shipments-blocked-by-u-s-judge

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    Greg Cavanagh

    This is the reason I keep reading CAGW reports and blogs. Not the science, it’s pretty easy to understand and holds little interest for me. It’s the psychology of the believers that has me spell-bound. It’s fascinating. One’s mind awakening to the reality around them, and how so many for so long have lied to them.

    Ahhhhh! Look at that, Why is this so? So says Professor Julius Sumner Miller.

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    • #

      Ahhhhh! Look at that, Why is this so? So says Professor Julius Sumner Miller.

      To this day, that man is just sooooo cool.

      Just one (of so very may) of his experiments was when he had one of those small cheap snap together toys from a breakfast cereal box. It was an elephant and had articulated legs. You snapped it together and then put some cotton through the loop in its nose, with a washer on the other end of the cotton. You then hang the washer over the end of the table and the elephant walks to the edge of the table and then stops at the edge.

      Professor Sumner Miller spent the whole quarter hour explaining exactly why the elephant stopped at the edge of the table.

      I learned more about Physics from his TV shows than from any High School teacher.

      Tony.

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    Peter C

    For those who are unfamiliar with the late Professor Julius Sumner MillerI Present a short video (4 minutes), in which he discusses reflection of light at glass interfaces.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUgJUcJ2Xxc

    His style was so engaging that I considered pursuing Physics at University! Looking back I am glad that I did not. Applied Science was better for me.

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      David Maddison

      This must have been in the 60’s or early 70’s. I have several autographed books of his. He was excellent. It’s tragic that so few people would know who he is now.

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    Another Ian

    Quoting Jo

    “With more access to gigabyte libraries of information, world tours, and years of study, it is amazing that yet again, another generation thinks it’s the first smart one born in human history.”

    In about my last 10 years of being in a research establishment I was astounded at the inability of new graduates to do a literature review in their field. It seemed that if it wasn’t on cd it never happened. (Pre Google)

    Just recently I was acquainted with “Google research”. There was no way that the references that were applicable to the subject appeared – they were 30+ years ago.

    IMO Einstein is super smart that he even gets a mention these days

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    Gregg

    My grandfather served in combat in an American Expeditionary Force artillery battery in Europe during the Great War. He witnessed Wilson’s entire, “I will not send American boys to die in a European war” campaign first hand. The US Army was turned against the Veteran “Bonus Marchers” in the 1930’s. Then there was World War 2, Korea and Vietnam. He used to tell me, “Boy, a piece of paper will lie still for anybody to write whatever they want onto it.” In other words, most of what’s in the newspapers and on radio were propaganda and lies,

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    NB

    Kids are entitled to trust older people.
    Sure, they need to be cautious and skeptical, but they are enshrouded in falsities of the left, and torn to shreds if they dissent – including being marked down, their life-opportunities destroyed.
    In all this, where are the courageous adults, guiding the young with skepticism and thoughtfulness? Have they shut up in fear?
    Is the want of thoughtfulness and courage of their parents the fault of the young?
    It is not.

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    robert rosicka

    Talking about brainwashed kids I wonder which one has a sore red thumb ?

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    pat

    the anti-democratic CAGW forces at work again:

    16 May: Guardian: Renewable energy section: UK must secure billions in investment to meet climate targets, MPs warn
    Influential committee says collapse in low-carbon investment is endangering jobs and threatening climate commitments
    by Fiona Harvey
    Funds going into renewable energy, the mainstay of the low-carbon economy, fell more than 50% in 2017, having dropped by 10% in 2016, bringing annual investment in the sector to its lowest since the financial crisis in 2008.

    The environmental audit committee (EAC) said on Wednesday that the government would be unable to meet its pledges on carbon emission reductions, if the collapse continued.
    The MPs also said the government was failing to implement policies to cut emissions from transport, heating and industry, and called on ministers to consider raising a “sovereign green bond”, as other countries have done, in order to stimulate investment…

    Cuts to taxpayer-funded support for renewable projects, along with planning obstacles that have effectively ruled out new onshore wind turbines across much of the country, have deterred energy companies and their financial backers. The market for energy efficiency measures, such as home insulation, has also seen a sharp decline since the government scrapped its flagship policy, and the Green Investment Bank was sold off.

    Alex White, senior policy officer at the Aldersgate Group, said: “There are willing investors in the green economy, but not enough projects to invest in. Boosting the pipeline of green infrastructure projects will be critical to meet the UK’s environmental goals and should be the first priority in green finance. Policy detail is key [for investors].”

    Alongside the EAC report, researchers and NGOs have called for a “greening” of the Bank of England, to meet carbon targets and encourage clean growth. Positive Money, a thinktank, called for the monetary policy committee, which sets interest rates, to have to take the risks of climate change into account in making its decisions, a controversial recommendation that would require wide reviews of how climate change could make an impact on inflation.
    The report, A Green Bank of England (LINK), also suggested that the Bank of England should be given a specific remit on environmental sustainability, which would affect its decisions and advice to government, and should no longer buy bonds issued by fossil fuel companies.

    Lord Deben, chairman of the Committee on Climate Change, the government’s statutory advisors, said linking the Bank of England’s work to climate change was essential, as was linking the performance of other government departments on the issue. “We have compartmentalised our reactions to climate change – we say, we have a minister for this, so the secretary of state for health or the chancellor do not think they have responsibility for it.”

    He said: “The Bank of England can make a huge difference by using its own direct powers, and by influencing [others].”
    He was backed up by Barry Gardiner, Labour’s shadow secretary for international trade, who said: “We have to make it clear to the Bank of England that it is given a specific remit to deal with these issues, not to limit its activity to more conventional banking activity.”

    The governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney, has repeatedly warned of the risks of climate change to the financial sector…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/16/uk-must-secure-billions-in-investment-to-meet-climate-targets-mps-warn

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    pat

    ***another attempt to get African countries on board the “renewables” train.
    more figures you can’t believe in:

    15 May: ClimateChangeNews: ILO: green economy can create 24 million jobs by 2030
    The Paris Agreement is generating new clean industries that will offset the loss of oil and coal jobs, finds a report by the UN’s labour body
    By Soila Apparicio
    The Paris climate agreement will create 24 million jobs by 2030, according to a report (LINK) released on Monday by the International Labor Organization (ILO).

    Opportunities in renewable energy, building efficiency and other low-carbon industries are predicted to more than offset job losses of 6 million in sectors like oil drilling and coal mining, creating a net gain of 18 million.

    Meanwhile global warming is set to take a toll on employment, it added, with medical conditions such as heat stress, exhaustion, and strokes becoming more common. The report calculates heat stress will cause a 2% loss globally in hours worked by 2030 due to sickness…

    Some regions are expected to benefit more than others in the transition. Asia and the Pacific, the Americas, and Europe, are set for net gains of 14 million, 3 million, and 2 million jobs respectively.

    The Middle East and Africa would conversely see small net losses “if current trends continue”, as a result of the dependency on fossil fuel extraction in these regions…

    ***“Policy changes in these regions could offset the anticipated job losses or their negative impact,” said Catherine Saget, lead author of the report…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/05/15/ilo-green-economy-can-create-24-million-jobs-2030/

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      robert rosicka

      Only way they will create that many jobs is if they plonk each person on an exercise bike modified to power a battery and the whole 24 million are going at the same time .

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    Roy Hogue

    What does it take to make a good skeptic? Unfortunately the answer is making mistakes and getting kicked around in the world for a while. In other words, experience.

    That’s why we should never allow those under about 30 years old to vote. Then if you want to vote for the likes of nancy Pelosi or Barbara Boxer, just for example, go ahead and do it. But I think a period of sobering up from the intoxication of grandiose ideology, nursing your bruises for a few years and generally learning that you have built up a position in life that you want to protect from confiscation is what it takes to make a decent skeptic.

    Now why don’t we do it? 🙁

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      WXcycles

      Agree Roy, but would say 25 years old, as they’re becoming contributors by then and will expect a say in community decisions that impact them. But agree, 18 is too young.

      Plus all university students should be blanket banned from voting, as they’re far too foolish, ignorant and irresponsible to be trusted with voting choices.

      Same applies to anyone still living at their parents family home, they’re not fit to vote on important issues yet.

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    Lindsay

    The Gallop Poll longitudinal graph is a real gem. It shows that nearly everyone surveyed has a view and the decline in the percentage with no opinion is adding to the increase in the percentage not concerned at all with CC. The only category not to change are those who hold a “fair amount” of concern (whatever that means) however those unconcerned now equal them. The truly fascinating outcome is that there is a seven year cycle where those in the top category of most concern and those in the second bottom category of mildly concerned are negatively correlated. You can see the negative correlation quite clearly where a significant percentage of people who are really concerned gradually loose faith and fall to only being mildly concerned to then regather and return to their former angst over a nearly uniform cycle. So what could be the trigger? Who is looking for a research project to attract funding?

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    David Rohde

    Thanks Jo, Im a long time reader but first time writer. I am a full time fire fighter , bee keeper, mad tree planter , home gardener etc so some people think Im a greenie but I am a vocal sceptic of the climate change theory. I suscribe to a beekeeping magazine that is edited by an AGW believer and he posed some questions in the latest magazine that i would like some help with please .
    1 Why have 9 of the 10 hottest years on record (globally) occurred in the last 19 years-in fact all 10 have occurred in the last 20 years
    2 Explain why 2017 was the third hottest year on record , but the hottest year without an El nino in the Pacific ocean.
    3 Explain where the cyclical pattern fits in, in the fact that,the 5 warmest years on global record have all happened in the 2010s, the 10 warmest years on record have all been since 1998 , and the 20 warmest years on record have all occurred since 1995.
    4 When did the last cycle happen that saw us having bushfires in Victoria in late march , with record warm temps in April across much of south east Australia (39/40) in the first week of April.

    Thanks for any help you can give me .

    [David, until Joanne comments consider that with only a little effort you can search for good answers here at the Jo Nova site yourself. First, search on the subject of BOM (or NASA) homogenization or unscientific “adjustment” of temperature data. Most if not all of the “records” you have listed above can be demonstrated to be the result of such adjusting. In other words, the “record” temperatures may or may not true. There are other demonstrable errors introduced by modern measuring techniques that are different than those used for much of the early temperature recording.
    Even if the temperatures are higher than typical, then there is the issue of cause. Sceptics are not convinced that human activities have much if anything to do with temperature.
    Lastly, the argument for AGW is based on a theory that more energy is retained in the atmosphere because of an increase in Co2. Temperature is a proxy measurement of this energy. How does one imagine that readings of temperature on the surface are sensitive enough and accurate enough to account for the whole atmosphere? How does surface temperature account for all the other ways energy moves around in the atmosphere?
    These ideas should get you thinking and again with some searching here at Jo Nova will help you deal with these claims of “Hottest Ever”.] ED

    ===============================================
    David – I’m preparing for the speech next week. Short for time.
    Turn the questions back on them.
    1. Why? Best estimate — We had a record grand solar maximum in late 20th C. See David Evans work – temps follow solar activity by one delayed cycled. BUT don’t fall for the rhetorical tactic — why does a skeptic have to explain what a CAGW believer cannot? They want our money, they need to answer the Questions, not you. TWO — Why does the hottest in 150 years matter? It was hot 1000 years ago, hotter 8000 years ago, 120,000 and for most of the history of life on Earth. All these “hottest ever” recent minor records are not that important (and they are adjusted up the kazoo). Trends matter. Why did temps pause for 20 years? Why was the decadal warming trend the same in 1880 as in 1980? All that CO2? No difference? (cite Phil Jones).
    2. See 1. Irrelevant recent noise that has been going on for millions of years. Why has nature suddenly stopped causing warming spells — because “Models”. Alarmists used to say one year was noise — only trends mattered. Then the trends showed they were wrong, now they resort to noise because it is all they have.
    3. Multiple long cycles under a 60 year pacific cycle. We’ve been warming since the grand solar minimum circa 1680 — After 300 years of increasing solar activity of course we have accumulated “warming”. Doh! Why did the warming start long before our CO2 emissions? Why did glaciers melt and the seas rise 100 years before coal power and cars were invented? If the sun caused all the warming we would get “the hottest ten years” exactly the same…
    4. Why was the worst bushfire in Victoria in 1851 when CO2 was perfect? Most fire intensity is about fuel loads, not 0.9C temp rises.
    –Jo

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      David Rohde

      Thank you for your help and advice.

      David, when I get time I’ll turn this conversation into a post. Obviously others are wondering the same thing. — Cheers! Jo

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    Joe

    So clearly the take-home message is:

    Coal is not dying in the rest of the world either

    We have been saying this for a great many years and clearly not much has changed but still there is a lot of gloom talk about us living in caves or tree houses run on windmills. Isn’t it just all of the scare mongering and doomsday talk on both sides of the ‘debate’ that is a source of money for the scammers? Has the global coal industry suffered in any significant way?

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    Ted O'Brien.

    Coming back late with an observation.

    Half my lifetime ago, I had occasion to have a few beers with a mate from school days and half a dozen of his work mates. They were lawyers in a government department. He was a very good man and a wonderful friend who died too young, but we disagreed strongly on political matters. I was a farmer.

    We were in our late thirties, and the topic was Wendy Bacon’s application for admission to The Bar. To my surprise they were united against her. I am quite sure that fifteen years earlier they would have been rabid in their support.

    Meanwhile I, who would have strongly opposed fifteen years before, was prepared to give credit for the work she had put into getting thus far.

    It’s wonderful how a wife, a few kids and a mortgage can change a man’s outlook on life.

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