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UN climate summit flops despite the childrens rent-a-crowd crusade

The Childrens Rent-a-crowd Crusade didn’t bring in the money

We all know why the climate picnic last Friday was not held on the weekend — hardly anyone would have come. When adults are too bored to go out and save the world, the only option is children. Butter them up, tell them they are heroes and rebels if they do what they want to do anyway and take the day off school. Climate protests have been shrinking for years, so the adults in charge needed to change strategies, and with a compliant media, it worked — it was a grand theatre.

Great PR. But it came to nothing today anyhow

The UN asked for climate plans. Major economies failed to answer

World leaders were asked to come to the UN with concrete plans to cut emissions to net zero.

But on Monday, the presidents and prime ministers of the world’s largest emitting economies stumbled. Signalling just how difficult the work of removing CO2 will be compared to setting targets.

The tougher 1.5C goal of the Paris Agreement, backed by UN chief António Guterres and the majority of the world’s nations, requires achieving net zero global emissions by 2050.

The only speaker in the room that “resonated” was the only one in the room who had no responsibility

Greta could say any darn thing at all and none of it would have to be costed, or make sense:

And yet, incrementalism was the main theme at the UN climate action summit, as heads of state took to the podium one after the other. The speeches failed to resonate, except for Swedish activist Greta Thunberg, who brought the hall to tears as she called out leaders for their inaction. “Yet you all come to me for hope? How dare you,” she said.

Greta Thunberg makes great theater (if you want to scare the world).

Someone has wound up a child into quivering rage and breathless tears. How dare you indeed – exploit the children for political ends.



….

Earth Day was a big hit too at the start, but repetition and boredom killed it. Presumably they’ll run some more “climate-strikes” until schools, parents and kids get bored again.

UPDATE: Michael Smith reports that Greta has a IMDB page which lists acting credits and contact details for her agent. She lists climate performances. Just acting then?         h/t Another Ian, Dennis.

So unfair that a child be a tool,
Of alarmists, to face ridicule,
Being so underage,
For the fake climate rage,
And would be much better off home at school.

–Ruairi

h/t Pat, David B.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.4/10 (107 votes cast)
UN climate summit flops despite the childrens rent-a-crowd crusade , 9.4 out of 10 based on 107 ratings

210 comments to UN climate summit flops despite the childrens rent-a-crowd crusade

  • #
    Rob

    Fifteen seconds of Greta was enough for me.

    500

    • #
      AndyG55

      You are better than me..

      “I should not be here”

      No you shouldn’t be there, little girl

      Go back to school and actually learn some facts.

      Learn to think for yourself.

      You do not need to be a puppet all your life.

      460

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Well known tactic that Chairman Mao used, was to enlist chidren to put pressure on adults…its the communist way…..

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/mao-little-general-horror-cultural-revolution

        “Thousands of teenage hands rocketed skywards as the Great Helmsman stepped down from the rostrum in Tiananmen Square to greet the shock troops of his revolution. It was the summer of 1966 and Mao’s Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution – a catastrophic political convulsion that would catapult China into a decade of heartbreak, humiliation and deadly violence – was under way.

        ““When we saw Mao Zedong wave his hand, we all went berserk,” recalled Yu Xiangzhen, then a 13-year-old schoolgirl whose bright red armband marked her out as one of millions of loyal Red Guards. “We shouted and screamed until we had no voices left.”

        “Fifty years after the start of the Cultural Revolution, in May 1966, Yu, who is now 64, has been blogging her memories of the period in a bid to prevent history repeating itself.

        “”China’s communist rulers have remained silent over the anniversary of the devastating political mobilisation, which scholars estimate claimed somewhere between one and two million lives.

        “But since the start of this year, Yu has been trying to use her blog to tear down the wall of official silence surrounding the events of that bloody summer.

        ““If our descendants do not know the truth they will make the same mistakes again,” she wrote in the introduction to her series of online reflections. “I want to use real experiences to prove that the Cultural Revolution was inhumane.”

        “Even half a century on, Yu, a retired journalist, says she is still trying to fathom the horrors she witnessed that summer and to understand how she was radicalised into becoming one of Mao’s “little generals”.

        370

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          I’m not saying anyone in this discussion is a communist, but rather children appear in this case to being trotted out as pawns in a bigger game…..16 year olds should be in school, not being used ( and possibly without thier knowledge ) for radical agendas…..

          260

        • #
          Mal

          “Enlist chnildren to put pressure on adults”
          Isn’t that also the MacDonalds Model?

          181

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            Yu Xiangzhen, then a 13-year-old schoolgirl, who is now 64, writes:
            “If our descendants do not know the truth they will make the same mistakes again…
            I want to use real experiences to prove that the Cultural Revolution was inhumane”.

            Swap ‘Cultural Revolution‘ for ‘Climate Revolution’ and you get 2020 Agenda UN.
            We have been warned before, by Uncle Bob (Marley): Know your ‘istory, mon!

            190

        • #
          Dennis

          Hitler Youth too.

          150

          • #
            Geoffrey Williams

            I’ll bet she was a spiteful little bugger in the school yard . .
            No hard feelings but some kids are so, and she looks as if she’s one.
            GeoffW

            72

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Historical fact ‘Mao’s Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution’ was started by his second wife and she later was charged with the ‘gang of 4′ for sedition. Mao’s great mistake.

          80

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            Mao’s great mistake… was getting married, not once but twice!
            Wasn’t your mate, Maurice (UN) Strong’s, sister or niece part of the inner party back in the day?
            I take it Ms Göebbels Thurdberg has never even heard of Mad Mao the Murderer or Insane Stalin the Slaughterer. Instead she’s been ‘schooled’ to be afraid of a colourless, odourless, essential trace gas which without, there is no life.

            Paul Homeward has some great historical pics of what life was like for 16-year-olds back in the Good Old Days, c.1837, when carbon was perfect: “Oi! You kids! Stop playing in that chimney/mine/factory and get back to work now!”

            https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/09/24/stop-indulging-this-spoilt-little-brat/

            180

          • #
            Dennis

            Now deceased Canadian billionaire, Maurice Strong, an architect of the climate change based hoax, his cousin was a girlfriend of Chairman Mao.

            110

          • #
            Power Grab

            A Chinese lady (the mother of one of my child’s friends) told me that it was Mao’s wife that came up with the Cultural Revolution.

            70

        • #
          tom0mason

          OriginalSteve,

          Yu’s is a noble effort but will fail. A generation with a history of relying on Big Government fixes for small problems has had their minds’ captured by Big Governments promises and its media historical ‘renormalizing’.
          It is happening rapidly here too …
          An entire Western generation (or the majority of it) are indoctrinated, they will grow-up to be untrusting of their elders and their ‘old fashioned’ social norms. This generation will carelessly entrust their lives to Big Governments and their approved messages via MSM, — the ABCs, CNNs, and BBCs type persuasion machines of this world.
          A generation of new serfs for the new One World Order, living in a colder, more brutal community where their rights will have been whittled away, until rights become privileges for those with the high social scores. Scores that ‘social media’ Apple, MS, and Google feed and maintain. All the while the Big Government’s approved ‘edutaiment’ channels will offer a limited range of ‘bread and virtual circuses’ to the masses to keep them quietly amused.

          What will happen to the discontents, the social deviants, the truth seekers, and the social low scorers?

          120

        • #
          Jon-Anders Grannes

          «In the first movement, Nicholas, an eloquent shepherd from the Rhineland in Germany,[3] tried to lead a group across the Alps and into Italy in the early spring of 1212. Nicholas said that the sea would dry up before them and allow his followers to cross into the Holy Land. Rather than intending to fight the Saracens, he said that the Muslim kingdoms would be defeated when their citizens converted to Catholicism.» https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade

          10

      • #
        Bulldust

        There’s a problem with going back to school … that is where she leaned the alarmist “facts.”

        200

      • #
        Ross

        Go back to school yourself, Andy. Better yet, get out there and do something. Beyond attacking children from behind your keyboard. Brave heart.

        011

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Half a frame was enough for me. What an act, see the puppet strings pulled by the big green bogey man.

      110

    • #

      The link to IMDb above doesn’t work. I thought this was a joke, but Greta does have a page:
      https://www.imdb.com/name/nm10361418/?ref_=nv_sr_3?ref_=nv_sr_3
      Not much in it yet, but I wish her well. When all this stuff goes pear-shaped maybe she can get a few parts being a creepy kid? Until (unless) she actually grows up, of course. Then she could play a creepy adult. Or maybe an adult hell-bent on revenge against those who abused her?

      110

    • #
      Dean

      Apparently Greta was a little testy because she held off using the bucket on the trip over.

      30

  • #
    observa

    They really have created an emotional child monster in Thunderberg to hold up a mirror to them all. Any normal adult would cringe at the juvenile reflection of themselves but perhaps they’re not that capable.

    310

  • #

    There is no other way to describe this other than child abuse. The false alarmism being force fed to children is no different than telling your kid that there’s a monster under their bed that will kill them while they sleep. The result will be that the child will be in therapy for their entire adult life. Being a therapist may be the most common occupation once this generation of malformed brains comes of age.

    200

  • #
    Fred

    Greta aims to repeat history.
    The 15 year old African girl starved a tribe, Greta will starve the world.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/historic-parallels-in-our-time-the-killing-of-of-cattle-vs-carbon/

    281

  • #
    Mal

    This is what the whole climate crowd has come to
    Using dumb, naive and gullible children to to do emotionalrants.

    360

  • #
    Mary E

    It just makes me angry, and sad, to see the way these kids – Greta especially, being the “leader” or “guru” of the kiddie crowd – are being used, abused, lied to, manipulated. Some may never recover – can anyone see Greta getting to live anything resembling a normal life?

    It is sickening.

    370

    • #
      Ian Hill

      I fully agree Mary. The climate will have the last laugh. In twenty years time she is going to cringe over her activities now and want to hand back the Nobel Prize she will inevitably be awarded.

      110

      • #

        Hand it back!

        Are you kidding?

        Tony.

        110

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Along with her Oscar, Grammy, Sundance, Cannes Palme d’Or, BAFTA, AACTA, Stockholm Syndrome and more…

          At least if she was on the streets of Edinburgh, as part of their annual Fringe Festival, she’d get some laughs – or rotten tomatoes. It’s tough having to earn your own living, as an adult, out in the real world, Gøøse•step ThunderBurger.

          60

        • #
          Ian Hill

          Well half kidding Tony! It will depend on how cringed out she is. Of course all the money will be spent.

          40

        • #
          Hanrahan

          It carries a million dollars with it doesn’t it? Fat chance she’ll hand it back.

          30

    • #
      Rick C PE

      Mary: Poor Greta suffers from Asperger Syndrome Disorder which explains both her obsession with CAGW and her lack of appropriate social behavior. ASD kids need intensive training in coping skills to compensate for a total lack of empathy, inability to respond to other people appropriately and often rigid adherence to irrational beliefs. Using her to essentially promote her mother’s environmental advocacy book is reprehensible in my opinion. She will never have a normal life, but I think she will be even worse off when her fame fades away and she will find she’s just another person with AS and few if any friends.

      150

      • #
        george1st:)

        Her parents will be rich enough to look after her .
        Or they could migrate to Australia for our Medicare and NDIS .

        50

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Do climate refugees immigrants still get a free house on a quarter-acre section in the suburbs with free milk on Tuesday? A lazy search for NDIS turned up:

          “The NDIS has been developing a virtual assistant called ‘Nadia’ which takes the form of an avatar using the voice of actor Cate Blanchett (see Artificial intelligence in government)”. Spooky… Imagine how much money they’d save if they used the authoritarian voice of actor Tintin Eleonora, aka Grumpy Greta: “All you can talk about is money and fairy tales… How dare you!

          20

      • #
        Joe

        It is also very sad to see grown men here and elsewhere in the media putting hate, and resorting to name calling and schoolyard bullying, on a young child who is clearly the victim of this climate scam. I am very surprised that Jo, chooses to publish those comments and I hope that she would not encourage her children to act that way. I think that those exhibiting degrees of ASD are well represented by many of us in the engineering, technical, and scientific fields. I think that I would agree with Greta’s view that the trait can be a superpower especially when she can start taking control of it herself rather than letting others around her abuse it. Don’t forget that even Jo claims to have once been an active greenie before she saw the sunlight.

        15

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    Luboš Motl has translated a good essay:

    In the footsteps of Greta, on the road to slavery
    Statement of IVK (Inst. of Václav Klaus)
    (by Dr Jiří Weigl, on behalf of the Institute of Czech Ex-President Václav Klaus, Sep 23rd, 2019, translation by LM)

    140

  • #
    AndyG55

    The actions of princess Greta will hopefully wake people up to the fact that ITS ALL AN ACT !!

    The whole climate shebang has been one big piece of “theatre” from start to finish.

    A soap opera from a soap box.

    A “travesty” as someone once said.

    260

    • #

      Yep. She’s acting. A heavily scripted and rehearsed performance, with extra cheese over the ham.

      The family is theatrical for three generations at least, including the father with his interest in the renamed Rothschild yacht. The mother’s done a simulated naughty on stage in black lingerie while screeching operatically. She’s also screeched at Eurovision, which is worse.

      The lingonberry didn’t fall far from the bush.

      140

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Her mother, Malena Arnman, was awarded the WWF’s “Hero of the year” in 2017 and was the star attraction at an major environmental event the same year. Interestingly, on her father’s side, one ancestor is Svante Arrhenius.

        20

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      As far as I can tell, 97% of the world realise it’s an act. It’s the 3%ers that are determined to not enjoy their life.

      180

  • #
    JC

    Gretas dad is an actor. Don’t be surprised that she picks up some tricks of the trade.
    Not that shes not being sincere, however she is somewhere on Autism spectrum with Aspergers syndrome so yesterdays act did not have any social filter and she came across as a spoiled girl throwing a tantrum to many people who nominally agree with the catastrophic anthropological global warming (CAGW) hypothesis away.

    I’ve been getting the 97% science consensus fallacy a lot from people who have never looked at any of the data, nor will they look at it when you put it in front of them, even when you explain this is the same document that Greta wants you to read. Then I saw this youtube excerpt from a longer presentation Why People Adopt Politically Correct Views and an observation by a person named Kristian Niemietz that politically correct opinions are a marker of social status. They idea being you meet with strangers at an event and you know nothing about them having never met before and one individual starts talking about GMO foods and the other about immigration taking our jobs. The GMO foods issue is perceived as a high status opinion likely to be from an wealthier class person when the immigration issue is seen as low status. It is from that that political correctness is derived and that is eventually adopted by politicians i.e. there go the people. I must follow them for I am their leader. And then it occurred to me the it is not about scientific consensus (science is not done by consensus), CAGW is really about social consensus, the great and the good with higher social status express the opinion that climate change is bad because science and without batting an eyelid hop on a private planes to warm locations on the planet for their vacation. They don’t see the contradiction in their behavior because climate change is about social status.

    This gap in social status becomes even more clear when you consider the spark for the yellow vests protests in France where the higher social status classes sought to deny the use of fossil fuels by he lower social classes using progressively higher taxation. “Believing in climate change” is the current politically correct opinion because it reflects higher social status and standing in public, which would explain the disconnect between words and action and the constant petting on Gretas head.

    210

    • #
      Serp

      Yep, facts have little to do with attitudes, it’s more about keeping abreast of whatever happens to be fashionable in one’s set just now.

      20

  • #
    PeterS

    The adults who are in charge of this campaign should be charged with child abuse and terrorism. The former is clear. The latter is because they are targeting only the West to reduce their emissions but allowing the developing countries like China and many other Asian nations to keep building hundreds of new coal fired power stations yet asking the West to give them more money. That is a form of terrorism since the result will be the economic destruction of the West with absolutely no benefit to the climate even if the whole CAGW scam were true.

    330

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Yes the abuse is terrible, I can only see this potato head family being pulled apart…..

      120

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Peter, the UN is not ‘allowing’ China and India to build coal fired power stations;
      It has no control over them, so that it cannot bloodywell stop them !!
      GeoffW

      170

      • #
        AndyG55

        China is also financing coal fired electricity in many other countries..

        … and hence gaining a solid foothold in those regions.

        Its quite odd watching the UN, World Bank etc shoot themselves in the foot on a daily basis.

        190

      • #
        Hal

        Geoffery Williams, what I’ve found, in “discussions” with climate history and science deniers (the CAGW crowd) is that they don’t realise while China, India and more recently Russia are signatories to the IPCC accords they each have different commitments which effectively mean no reduction in carbon emmissions or business as usual.

        140

        • #
          AndyG55

          Counting hydro, China have already met any “targets” for renewables they have.

          They can take that coal and burn what they need to.

          90

      • #
        PeterS

        The UN has no control or jurisdiction over any country. All I’m trying to say is the UN is demanding the West to reduce their emissions by closing down coal fired power stations and replacing them with renewables but the UN is saying nothing about the rest of the world who happen to be building hundreds of coal fired power stations. The UN as a whole is both insane and hypocritical, at best.

        130

    • #
  • #
    mike reed

    Yeh here we go again taking a leaf out all great dictators and tyrants of their 20th century psychological scare playbook ie A .Hitlers youth groups B.Stalin’s youth gruops
    C.Mao’s young red guard cadres and finally Pol pot’s murderous youth that tortured and murdered a third of Cambodia’s population.The idea is the same brainwash
    gullible youth with no experience into doing whatever your “bidding “might be.And yeh her shrilled rhetorical “how dare you?’are just what her puppet masters
    want to hear.However the remedies for the so called climate catastrophy ( no one I have asked can say they can see anything odd happening to our climate) that
    her script writers (green activists) have pushed ie no Adani mine for India’s poor -is causing chronic lung disease and eventual early death because they have to burn dung
    for cooking and heating in confined spaces as they don’t have access to grid electricity.And yes Greta Avian ecosystems are beginning to die as a result of wind farms indiscriminate butchering of top predators like Eagles and Kites.Oh and I won’t mention the collateral damage done by killing millions of bats because I suppose their
    associated ecosystems somehow don’t count !!! Yes she is all very long on the rhetoric but her her hypocrisy is way longer by a country mile.Yes unfortunately its
    quite obvious that she is only the mouthpiece for Eco colonial Zealots.
    Cheers Mike Reed

    250

  • #
    Another Ian

    Behind the curtain

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/09/14/w-o-o-d-14-september-2019/#comment-117235

    And subsequent comment for names if needed

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/09/14/w-o-o-d-14-september-2019/#comment-117242

    (Originally posted on the panic thread but more applicable here imo}

    40

  • #
  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Greta Thunberg;
    A sick young woman if ever there was . . .
    And that is putting it politely !!
    GeoffW

    170

  • #
    beowulf

    Meanwhile back in reality, the grown-ups would like to be heard . . .

    More than 500 prominent scientists from all over the world have written a letter urging the Secretary-General of the United Nations for a further, de-politicised discussion of the climate issue, in which alternative scientific views are also given a voice.

    Your Excellencies,

    There is no climate emergency
    Natural as well as anthropogenic factors cause warming
    Climate policy relies on inadequate models
    CO2 is plant food, the basis of all life on Earth
    Global warming has not increased natural disasters
    etc etc

    Don’t expect to hear about any of that on your ABC. Not as news-worthy as a kid pointing the finger and spewing emotional crap.

    https://notrickszone.com/2019/09/24/no-climate-emergency-mit-climate-expert-500-prominent-global-scientists-write-in-letter-to-un/#comments

    240

    • #
      David Wojick

      I am proud to be a signatory.

      270

    • #
      destroyer D69

      Do not”ürge” a discussion, DEMAND a discussion as the alarmists see fit to demand action…….

      90

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Good, but this doesnt help IMV

      “Warming is far slower than predicted
      The world has warmed at less than half the originally-predicted rate, and at less than half the rate to be expected on the basis of net anthropogenic forcing and radiative imbalance. It tells us that we are far from understanding climate change.”

      It implies that warming (all natural nothing with humans) has a non natural component. Which is doesnt.
      The models are fake and dont predict anything, all based on an incorrect theory.
      A bit of this may help.

      60

  • #
    David Wojick

    Greta is now a successful politician, with deep pocket backing and very good speech writers (which is true of most successful politicians). She is very sharp and has learned fast. A formidable opponent in my opinion, not to be taken lightly. I am reminded of successful child movie stars. But she is only one of many leaders, the one in the spotlight for now.

    It will be interesting to see if the youth movement does anything for the Chile COP, which is now in danger of being ignored. Then too, will they be able to rise again for the crucial 2020 COP, which is still14 months away? They may have peaked too soon, unless the Democrats can keep he climate issue going. AOC has already faded.

    We still do not know how strong the militant climate movement is. Merging with the social justice movement has helped them but may not be enough to sustain them.

    150

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      One delusion,
      two delusions,
      more.

      It will be interesting to see what transpires at the COP conference in Santiago Dec. 2 -13. The signatures for nations “becoming carbon free by 2050″ wasn’t that successful, so I suppose we will get pressure to sign up for “becoming carbon free by 2030″. Since neither is remotely possible, even if those signing actually intend doing anything, the whole scam must be on the verge of collapse, and the increasing hysteria in the Media is an attempt to keep it going for another year.

      70

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        “becoming carbon free by ….(insert any date here)” is a total impossibility, economically and physically. The term ‘carbon’ without the qualifier ‘dioxide’ is another deliberate misnomer..

        110

    • #
      Bulldust

      Dems are all Impeach 45 now. That is the top three stories at the ‘unbiased’ ABC. Why they have learned absolutely nothing is beyond me. As Tim Pool said, you don’t have to believe Trump is playing 4D chess to see that the Dems are playing checkers…

      Bill Maher, reprehensible as his idea was, is correct in assuming that recession is the only real threat to Trump. The clown show that is the Dem line up for POTUS is laughable. Biden is slowly losing the plot and Warren is the next viable contender. Yeah, good luck with that…

      100

    • #
      Fran

      I’m Chilean; our government is putting a lot of hope into COP for boosting it’s international image and position within South America, and there has been a loooot of activity already regarding the event. The president, Piñera, is right-wing but actually pretty environmentally-minded, hoping maybe to reap political benefits in looking “cool” while standing next to Macron…so if the whole thing flops it would be pretty funny, actually.
      I do think the green movement is strong here (it helps that we’re a somewhat affluent nation, and Santiago especially is the richest city), so I dread the protests we’re surely have in December, even more when thinking that the media will keep hammering us with future cathastrope leading up to the event, with more and more intensity in the coming months. Although, there weren’t protests last Friday here for the “strike”, because it landed in the middle of the national holiday week, so people – including children and teens – were busy partying and/or eating beef BBQ (lol), which maybe says something about how regular Chileans think about the impeding doom Greta keeps talking about.

      30

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Rule 1 denigrate
    Rule 2 ignore science

    Tools required:
    Cognitive Dissonance

    121

    • #
      AndyG55

      And you apply them all.. in one post

      Well done. :-)

      Now, where is that empirical science showing warming by atmospheric CO2.

      Where is your “science” PF !!

      180

    • #
      David Wojick

      Greta is certainly denegrating (Congress, the UN, etc.) and ignoring the science. In fact she is confusing the UN’s 1.5 degrees of warming target (just 0.5 degrees from today) with the threshold of catastrophe. There is no basis for this, not even in AGW science.
      See my https://www.cfact.org/2019/09/21/young-climate-activists-do-not-speak-for-their-generation/

      220

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        you admit that there is warming? But then cognitive dissonance takes over.

        Has there been anyone who, in modern times, spoken for their generation? gotta love a good strawman

        119

        • #
          AndyG55

          Strong solar cycles will cause a small amount of beneficial warming

          There is no evidence to link this beneficial “global” warming to human activity

          Stop you childish trolling, PF.

          Greta doesn’t speak for her generation.

          She speaks for her handlers.

          160

        • #
          AndyG55

          “gotta love a good strawman”

          Its a bit cruel to call Greta a strawman, PF, and rather politically incorrect.

          (unless she identifies as a male, who knows nowadays)

          Seems you have finally figure out the whole AGW meme is one big strawman.

          Well done.

          120

        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          You’re chasing ghosts Peter.

          Everybody except Michael Mann knows Little Ice Age peaked (ended) around 1860, and has been generally warming ever since.

          Michael Mann created his hocky stick graph which disappeared the Little Ice Age, making all of history a flat temperature but with a dramatic uptick in recent temperatures.

          The rise in temperature is real, what is not known is why?

          Before James Hanson testified in Congress, everybody called it natural variation (for unknown reasons). Now days every body says it’s CO2 what dunnit.

          We however, are not convinced that CO2 caused the warming.

          Thus your statement “you admit that there is warming? But then cognitive dissonance takes over.” has no substance.

          110

        • #
          James Murphy

          The climate changes, so what? I’m yet to see any evidence that increased CO2 is the cause, but then, I also don’t think we understand the climate well enough to make any predictions which can be distinguished from random chance.

          If, after decades or hundreds of years of weather records and analysis, we can’t reliably and accurately predict what the temperature, wind, or rainfall will be in 2 weeks at a single point on the planet (like a capital city), how can we pretend to know what will happen to the whole planet in 100 years? Come on Peter Fitzroy, tell me…

          120

          • #
            tom0mason

            Yes James Murphy,

            Our climate like the weather is chaotic and has (as chaos usually has) periods of quasi-stability. Some clime true believer that changing over from one quasi-stable climate regime to another is their ‘tipping-point(s)’, I contend that it is a normal feature of our climate and is what our climate is all about. That is to say our climate is about quasi-stability and rapid and chaotic change (to a different quasi-stability). I’ve asked many people – both adherents to and those oppose to the cAGW supposition. Here is my last try with a defender of cAGW and climate models (Nick Stokes) —
            https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/19/emulation-4-w-m-long-wave-cloud-forcing-error-and-meaning/#comment-2799149

            And I’d also note his reply about the initialization of the climate models –
            https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/19/emulation-4-w-m-long-wave-cloud-forcing-error-and-meaning/#comment-2799303

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            Peter Fitzroy

            see the above comment, and then try to understand the difference between weather and climate.

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              AndyG55

              We do understand the difference.

              We have WEATHER CHANGE.. always have, always will.

              As you continue to show, there has been no global climate change in the last 40 years that can be scientifically linked to human activity

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              tom0mason

              Peter Fitzroy,
              Yes that should be weather and climate but it is obvious you never read the link which is about climate and the climate models.

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                Peter Fitzroy

                No at all true, but I’ve read, and reread, those old tropes before. While I love an argument based around a logical fallacy as those 2 were, I prefer the fact based universe to an undergrad debate.
                Eg – a favourite is to take an old report say from around 2007, and pretend that nothing has been done. Do you see the fallacy?

                This site give a good introduction to the history, and current state of climate models. And, as I’m sure you’ll be delighted to know, it has a bit on where there are gaps (like proper representation of clouds) https://www.carbonbrief.org/qa-how-do-climate-models-work
                and this is recognised as the best of the breed
                http://cci.esa.int/sites/default/files/05%20CMIP6.pdf

                OF course if reading is hard, try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYU2uawYPlE&feature=youtu.be

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              • #
                tom0mason

                Wrong again Peter Fitzroy,

                carbonbrief.org is a propaganda site. But even here they know they live in ignorance of clouds …

                And there are the things we could still do better:

                Many of the ways cloud at low altitudes form, evolve and dissolve are not clearly understood and models do not appear to represent them very well.
                The more detailed cloud resolving models need to be run over larger space and longer time domains to fully understand the benefits they bring
                Ice clouds have been less well studied and considered so far
                We need to maximise the information we can get from current and future satellite observations.

                SO NO! Clouds, precipitation, sea ice, and glacier are still a great problem for the models because the underlying science about how water in the atmosphere works is NOT FULLY KNOWN. IT IS WORK IN PROGRESS (just as I have written many time before!) If it were known then such factors in the models would not be parameterized and ‘tuned’ they would be formulas based and tested against empirical evidence.

                You video link (Dana Nuccitelli) is a joke — weasel words abound! — could, might, indicate that it’s probable, etc, … aka IT IS NOT TRULY KNOW.

                NONE of that documentation show initialize of the models with a realistic parameters before making their ensembles. THIS IS NOT DONE!
                Therefore this quote is as true and accurate today as it was in 2007.

                Kevin Trenberth said in journal Nature (“Predictions of Climate”) about climate models in 2007:

                None of the models used by the IPCC are initialized to the observed state and none of the climate states in the models correspond even remotely to the current observed climate. In particular, the state of the oceans, sea ice and soil moisture has no relationship to the obsered state at any recent time in any of the IPCC models. There is neither an El Nino sequence nor any Pacific Decadal Oscillation that replicates the recent past; yet these are critical modes of variability that affect Pacific rim countries and beyond. The Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, that may depend on the thermohaline circulation and thus oceanic currents in the Atlantic, is not set up to match today’s state, but it is a critical component of the Atlantic hurricanes and it undoubtedly affects forest for the next decade from Brazil to Europe. Moreover, the starting climate state in serveral of the models may depart significantly from the real climate owing to model errors. I postulate that regional climate change is impossible to deal with properly unless the models are initialized.
                ¯

                ¯
                Therefore the problem of overcoming this shortcoming, and facing up to initializing climate models means not only obtaining sufficiently reliable observations of all aspects of the climate system, but also overcoming model biases. So this is a major challenge.

                And this IS the situation today unless you have any evidence to counter it. But you haven’t, you’ve fire your best shot and it was a blank!

                And you have the temerity to say I reference old quote and that video quote out of date and roundly refuted CO2 supposition from more than a centuries ago. Now that is grasping at straws.

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                Peter Fitzroy

                see the second link

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                AndyG55

                Models are NOT EVIDENCE of anything.

                ESPECIALLY not climate models.

                You up a creek , without a paddle PF

                And you have a massive leak in your boat.

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                tom0mason

                Peter Fitzroy,

                “see the second link”

                I have had that pdf for quite a while. In fact I once listed that site here for you! It says nothing of substance, or (like Greta) you can see more than ordinary folk? It’s basically a list of aspirations linked to a list of more modeled expectations of what the observations (if they ever get them done) should show. The coordination with observations has not been finalized because it has not started yet.
                Aspirations
                WCRP Grand Science Challenges:
                1. Clouds, Circulation and Climate Sensitivity
                2. Changes in Cryosphere
                3. Climate Extremes
                4. Regional Sea-level Rise
                5. Water Availability
                6. Near-Term Climate Prediction
                7. Biogeochemical Cycles and Climate Change

                NOT YET DONE
                A Central Goal of CMIP6 is Routine Evaluation of the Models with Observations
                - Efforts to develop community tools and to couple them to the ESGF are underway

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                tom0mason

                Peter Fitzroy,

                “see the second link” part 2,

                1. Just because they say they will (eventually) compare models to some observations does not imply that they will initialize these models with realistic data.

                2. They still have no proper understanding of what water in the atmosphere does! If they did it would be hailed as a major breakthrough as then they could stop parameterizing clouds, sea ice, etc. and use mathematical formulas verified against observations. They can not do this as the basic underlying knowledge and understanding is missing.

                After 40 years of guessing about cloud effects they say they will resolve this.
                How long will that take? another 40 years or longer?
                Meanwhile they want everyone kowtowing to their stupid anti-CO2 plan when the basic science is missing — the models do not prove anything about CO2′s effect on the climate because by their own admission in the paper you link to (“see the second link”) they’ve never, ever understood all the basics of how the climate functions.

                Maybe in another forty years time they’ll be able to stop ‘tuning’ the particulate data up to unrealistic high values to cover up their embarrassing lack of knowledge about water.

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              tom0mason

              Peter Fitzroy,

              I note that you do not address Nick’s comments about initialization of the climate models –
              https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/19/emulation-4-w-m-long-wave-cloud-forcing-error-and-meaning/#comment-2799303

              The K. Trenberth quote I asked Nick about is the same one that you off-handly dismissed as being out of date with NO EVIDENCE. Nick expresses that it is still so and that he thinks it should be fixed.

              These models very poor science, and you can not bring yourself to look at them objectively because it would destroy your entire reason for believing (for that is all you have ) the cAGW paradigm.

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                Peter Fitzroy

                But I did supply the evidence. did you not see the links? And I specifically mentioned the problems with clouds.

                The models are very good science – that is what science is – Hypothesis (encapsulated in the model) testing. It is not just a bunch of random people using random code with random numbers.
                Are they perfect? No, are they improving? Yes. All very sciency.

                Now why use models? – we only have one earth, and we can not reset it and run it again using different parameters. All Science is models anyway, why do you have a problem with climate ones.

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                tom0mason

                Wrong again Peter Fitzroy,

                You have supplied NOTHING of substance.
                Just like the CO2 conjecture all you supply is supposition, assumption and zero empirical evidence NONE.
                NO projection by the models has come to pass. No climate predictions (or to use IPCC sophistry — projections) has a snowballs chance in hell of being anywhere close to being correct as the very basics of climate variability is chaotic.

                The climate models are an appallingly inaccurate, and waste of time and money but I do understand that as long as people get paid well to say that they work that’s exactly what these computer mathematicians will say.

                The model are wrong. The parameterize atmospheric humidity, precipitation, sea ice etc. Why because
                1. There is no real science behind how water in the atmosphere works.
                2. The models ultimate resolution is too big, too coarse.

                and do none of these models get properly initalized with realistic data when they start.

                AND THAT IS THE WHOLE STORY.

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                AndyG55

                No, there is NO EVIDENCE in any of those links ofyours, PF

                They are all model-based NON-evidence.

                You have produced NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE of warming by atmospheric CO2

                and your continued posting of model based nonsense shows just how little you know of actual science.

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                AndyG55

                “The models are very good science”

                RUBBISH

                They cover a huge range

                They have never been validated against REALITY

                They producing temperatures which nowhere near reality

                They can’t model or predict any of the main drivers of climate.. ie, the sun the clouds etc, in fact they blatantly ignore these and have fantasy science like CO2 warming built in instead

                The models ARE NOT SCIENCE..

                and they most certainly ARE NOT EVIDENCE of anything except the fact that they don’t have a clue what actually drives “the climate”

                They are ANTI-EVIDENCE

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              • #
                Geoffrey Williams

                Our boy Fitzy: I thought he’d been cured, what a shame.
                GeoffW

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              • #
                AndyG55

                In remission.. nah !!

                That was FAKED too.

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                el gordo

                ‘Now why use models? – we only have one earth, and we can not reset it and run it again using different parameters.’

                Objection, highly emotive language. Models are okay with hindcasts of our stochastic and non linear system.

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              Mary E

              Nice article looking at how “science” gets caught in circular reasoning here at Medium dot com. On reading this I found it clearly established one of the reasons why CAGW has so often raised doubts in my mind; it uses circular reasoning, depending on the theories to create the models that support the theories.

              There is much wrong with how the CAGW “proof” is created.

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        • #
          tom0mason

          Peter Fitzroy
          Enjoy this video for adults, (that Greta nor and children shouldn’t watch), it’s that late great George Carlin on what is wrong with “saving the planet”. Contains strong language but is so true!
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c

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        • #
          MudCrab

          Has there been anyone who, in modern times, spoken for their generation? gotta love a good strawman

          Love a good strawman?

          Oh okay, that first sentence is grammatically toothpaste, ergo your argument is invalid.

          That straw enough for you? :)

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            Peter Fitzroy

            Which first sentence? mine was “you admit that there is warming? But then cognitive dissonance takes over.”

            Sorry – I’ll make it simpler, we have heated the world by 1 degree in the last 100 years, we have not changed our activities, but redoubled them. David is then saying, nah .5 can not happen.
            “UN’s 1.5 degrees of warming target (just 0.5 degrees from today)” – that is a quote, from David, and I put it there for your benefit. Do you see the dissonance?

            Or was it my second sentence?
            “Has there been anyone who, in modern times, spoken for their generation? gotta love a good strawman”
            you refute that. Ergo she does speak for her generation.
            Good to have you on my side

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              AndyG55

              “we have heated the world by 1 degree in the last 100 years”

              RUBBISH.

              WE have not had any warming affect on the global temperature, except by mal-adjustments and urban warming smeared over areas it doesn’t apply to.

              Your are in your pathetic zero-evidence FANTASY world again, PF

              Wake up !!!

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            • #
              AndyG55

              “Ergo she does speak for her generation”

              NO, WRONG AGAIN PF.

              She only speaks for the brain-washed kiddies and for her handlers.

              Most teenagers just ignore her, like any sane person should.

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      Hal

      You have it down pat, Pete.

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    Another Ian

    “The young actress Greta Thurnberg’s IMDB page lists her acting credits with contact details for her agent”

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2019/09/the-young-actress-greta-thurnbergs-imdb-page-lists-her-acting-credits-with-contact-details-for-her-a.html

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    Antoine D'Arche

    She is one creepy little kid, autism or not. And she’s 16, so should be adequately self aware.
    She could have said no.

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    Travis T. Jones

    Does anybody remember the “Greta” of 1992?
    Very similar message to the one delivered yesterday.
    And for the most part Severn has been forgotten.
    And she’s now an adult and has children of her own and they live quite well.
    And … nothing happened.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=70&v=oJJGuIZVfLM

    h/t: @luisbaram

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      Greg in NZ

      “In 2000, she and five friends carried out Powershift – a cross-Canada cycling campaign to raise awareness about climate change and air pollution” or sump-think™.

      Little Tintin wasn’t even a mote, speck, log, beam, sparkle in her actor daddy’s eyes. Then, Action!

      At the age of 39, Severn now pushes “a culture of diversity, sustainability and joy”. Mokay…

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    Hal

    The big push is on. They’ve seen the future and if they can convince the Western world that action has been taken as a result, they can claim responsibility for the impending cooling.

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    Hal

    If Greta and her handlers were serious about CAGW they would be taking her to Tianenmin Square and Delhi. (Maybe her mothers book hasn’t been translated into Hindi and Mandarin yet)

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    Drapetomania

    The speeches failed to resonate, except for Swedish activist Greta Thunberg, who brought the hall to tears

    Tears of laughter…
    On the upside tony has created a great video on the latest round of lies sent to policy makers.
    Video here
    He has designed software to help CO2 kooks have an easier time faking data..

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    David Maddison

    Greta is like a vegan cat. You can tell she isn’t making the decisions. Shocking child abuse by Leftist parents. I have also seen a picture of her parents and her wearing Antifa t-shirts.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      I’ve seen that also, nice family values there, if anyone wants to see what they’re up against do a search on Antifa.

      “The fascists of the future will declare themselves anti-fascists”

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    Bruce of Newcastle

    Greta the steamer.

    Even lefty Kudelka seems bemused by this young lady’s antics.

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    PeterS

    So when children start committing suicide as they become more and more frighten by the so called climate emergency can the people who manage and control the scare campaign be charged with manslaughter?

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    Ruairi

    So unfair that a child be a tool,
    Of alarmists, to face ridicule,
    Being so underage,
    For the fake climate rage,
    And would be much better off home at school.

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    pat

    25 Sept: Bloomberg: Bolsonaro Slams Socialism, Urges Respect for Amazon Policy at UN
    By Aline Oyamada and Simone Preissler Iglesias
    President Jair Bolsonaro asserted Brazil’s sovereignty over the Amazon and attacked the legacy of socialism in Latin America in a defiant speech to world leaders at the United Nations General Assembly.
    In a 30-minute address that cemented the rupture of the country’s tradition of multilateralism, Bolsonaro said he was rebuilding the nation after it had slid to the “brink” of socialism under previous administrations. He trumpeted Brazil’s environmental policies and said that those who questioned his record were concerned with exploiting the country’s mineral wealth.
    “The Amazon is not being devastated or destroyed by fire, as the lying media claims,” he said…

    In a pointed rebuttal to France and Germany — both publicly concerned over the rise in deforestation — Bolsonaro used his speech to point out that the two European countries use over 50% of their land for agriculture, whereas Brazil uses just 8%. In addition, he said that “radical environmentalism” represented a step back and called on the UN to defeat this ideology…

    “It is a fallacy to say that the Amazon is a world heritage and it’s a mistake, as scientists have testified to say, that our rainforests are the lungs of the world,” he said. “They questioned that which is most sacred to us: our sovereignty!”…

    “There can be no political freedom without economic freedom,” he said. “Free markets, concessions and privatizations are now present in Brazil.”
    In particular Bolsonaro mentioned the trade deal reached between the European Union and Mercosur, the South American customs union, a deal which is now under threat due to the Europeans’ opposition to Bolsonaro’s environmental policies…

    Finally, he called on the United Nations to act as group of individual countries and not in the service of some “abstract global interest”…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-24/world-must-respect-brazil-sovereignty-in-amazon-bolsonaro-says

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      pat

      24 Sept: Forbes: Brazil President Bolsonaro’s Biggest Economic Win, Pension Reform, Expected This Week
      by Kenneth Rapoza
      Brazil’s pension reform bill, which rewrites the rules on how and when public employees can retire, will finally be approved by the Senate on Wednesday. Expectations were for a vote today.
      It looks like 66 Senators out of 81 will approve the bill, enough to give investors the security that this is a done deal, and a sense of what is to come. Next up are desperately needed tax cuts. A proposal is supposed to be made public within the next two weeks, according to reports in the Brazilian press…

      Pension reform means lower government spending which allows for tax cuts, an important move to get Brazil on par with what multinational corporations are paying in corporate taxes in China and India…

      For now, the only parties where a majority are against changes to the nearly bankrupt pension system are the Workers’ Party, once led by jailbird president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, and Brazil’s miniscule environmental activist party, REDE.
      Surprisingly, one REDE Senator is seen voting yes to the public pension cuts, based on a preliminary vote count conducted by political consultants in Brasilia…

      The Workers’ Party nearly bankrupted Petrobras during its last five years in power, sending its stock price to $3 a share at one point in February 2016. In 2008, Goldman Sachs had a price target of $60 on Petrobras…

      More people approve of Bolsonaro than disapprove, based on numerous polls…

      The Brazilian president addressed the United Nations General Assembly in New York on Tuesday. Bolsonaro said his government brought Brazil away from the precipice of “socialism”– telling attendees that it was a deranged supporter of the Socialism and Liberty Party that stabbed him on the campaign trail last year…
      https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2019/09/24/brazil-president-bolsonaros-biggest-economic-win-pension-reform-expected-this-week/

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    She said that she should be at home in school.

    I wonder if she’ll have to repeat this current school year if and when she does get back home, (presumably by another sailing ship) you know, having missed so much of the school year already.(/sarc)

    Tony.

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    pat

    24 Sept: Breitbart: Macron Rips Greta Thunberg’s ‘Very Radical’ Climate Complaint Against France
    by Joshua Caplan; UPI contributed to this report
    French President Emmanuel Macron, one of the world’s most ardent supporters of the Paris climate agreement, has come out against a complaint lodged by Swedish climate alarmist Greta Thunberg with the United Nations that accuses France and four other countries of inaction against so-called global warming.
    In an interview with Europe 1 (LINK), Macron branded the complaint as “very radical” and warned it would likely “antagonize societies.”
    “All the movements of our youth — or our not-so-young — are helpful,” explained the globalist leader. “But they must now focus on those who are furthest away, those who are seeking to block the way.”
    He went on to add that he rejects the notion that “the French government nor the German government, currently, were blocking the way.”…

    According to the suit — filed Monday by Thunberg and 15 other children — Germany, France, Brazil, Argentina, and Turkey have violated the activists’ rights as children. The five named countries are parties to the Convention on the Rights of the Child, a treaty signed by dozens of nations 30 years ago.
    The children responsible for the suit claim the five nations haven’t done enough to prevent climate change’s “deadly and foreseeable consequences.”…

    The lawsuit does not seek monetary damages. ***If the suit is upheld, the U.N. would be forced to classify the climate change crisis as a human rights crisis…
    https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2019/09/24/macron-rips-greta-thunbergs-very-radical-climate-complaint-against-france/

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      pat

      plenty of anti-Bolsonaro and pro-CAGW stuff included, naturally; however, some bits & pieces worth noting:

      24 Sept: AFP: ‘Media is lying’ about Amazon devastation, says Brazil’s Bolsonaro
      Brazil’s President Jair Bolsonaro said Tuesday it was a lie that the Amazon was being devastated by fire and accused countries critical of him of having a “colonialist spirit.”
      Speaking first at this year’s UN General Assembly, the far-right leader also heaped praise on his American counterpart Donald Trump for respecting his country’s sovereignty.

      The speech came a week after a Human Rights Watch report that accused Bolsonaro of giving a “green light” to illegal loggers and failing to protect those defending the world’s largest rainforest…
      “It is a fallacy to say that the Amazon is the heritage of humankind, and a misconception confirmed by scientists to say that our Amazon forests are the lungs of the world,” he said…

      Bolsonaro also hit out at his detractors, saying that while every country had problems, sensational reporting in the international media “aroused our patriotic sentiments.”
      “Using and resorting to these fallacies, certain countries, instead of helping … behaved in a disrespectful manner and with a colonialist spirit,” he said.
      “They even called into question that which we hold as a most sacred value, our sovereignty.”…

      Making a clear reference to France, he said: “One of these countries during the recent G7 meeting dared suggest applying sanctions to Brazil without consulting or even listening to Brazil.”…

      “I thank President Donald Trump who summed up the spirit that should prevail among United Nation member countries: respect for the freedom and sovereignty of each of the member countries,” he said…
      https://www.afp.com/en/news/826/media-lying-about-amazon-devastation-says-brazils-bolsonaro-doc-1kl0n84

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      Serp

      Oops. Ignore the downthumb pat.

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  • #
    Hanrahan

    Methinks the Lady doth protest too much.

    Her masterful performance, and it certainly was that, has allowed the sceptics to criticise and to do so fairly.

    Here’s one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guuy8Dez-V4

    BTW Like Rob I couldn’t watch much of it. I luv the martyrs who watch these things incl. CNN & NSMBC “so we don’t have to”.

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    Gee Aye

    She’s old enough to have her own anger and tears and opinions. Projecting made up motives upon her is pretty crappy journalism.

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      AndyG55

      We have no interest in her baseless opinions, or see her fake tears and petulant anger.

      We get enough of that from you, GA.

      Maybe you are swayed by them,

      … but most of us are just shaking out heads at her child-like tantrums.

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      Peter Fitzroy

      rule 1. on on this blog, takes precedence over everything else

      Denigrate – particularly when there is no opportunity for the target to respond

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      • #
        AndyG55

        I’m not denigrating anyone.

        I just saying that I have no interest in listening to an uneducated whinging teenage.

        We get enough of that from you, PFG.

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        Mark D.

        rule 1. on on this blog, takes precedence over everything else

        Denigrate – particularly when there is no opportunity for the target to respond

        Gee=Peter=Greta.
        You have responded, Gee will likely respond, why don’t you both contact Greta to respond?

        The world is a new strange place where you can use propaganda willy-nilly as Greta has done. With the support (or was it the other way around) of the United Nations.

        Rule number 1? according to how Peter operates: denigrate this blog.

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          I should have been more specific – To comment on this Blog; you need only to use 2 rules 1) Denigrate, and 2) Ignore Science. The tool you should use is cognitive dissonance. As this comments section a natural home of the most extreme pedants, I should have chosen my words more carefully. Subtlety and Nuance are not known here.

          That make you happy now MarkeD

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          • #
            Mark D.

            “cognitive dissonance” is a very broad sword that most certainly cuts both ways. “Subtlety and nuance” are seen or lost to the eye of the beholder.

            Make me happy now? Meh.

            In all ways you are what you accuse.

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            MudCrab

            Also Peter, Cognitive Dissonance.

            You keep using those words. Somehow I don’t think they mean what you think they mean.

            Here is what WikiPee has to say (so it must be true…)

            In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values.

            So, according to the (non-ironic) Rules Of Peter, we have not only ‘ignore the science’ (again – non-ironic as by quoting the ‘rules’ Peter is avoiding actually discussing the topic at hand) but we are also intended to use the ‘tool’ of Cognitive Dissonance.

            So… by weaponising mental discomfort we are meant to… Actually what IS the science behind this theory, Peter? It makes no sense what so ever.

            Cognitive Dissonance is what Lefties suffer from. It stems from the unshakable belief that everything would be better if only they were in charge. They know what is best.

            Because they know best they end up being almost violently closed minded. For a left to admit they were wrong calls into question their core belief that ‘They Know Best’. Cognitive Dissonance kicks in and they solve the problem by rejecting outright anything that opposes their world view. This is why Lefts tend to shout and rant when arguments go against them.

            Conservatives very rarely suffer from Cognitive Dissonance. Conservatives do not feel that ‘everything would be better if only they were in charge because they know what is best’. Conservatives feel that everything would be better if other people would stop trying to enforce their personal world views onto them and demanding they change their entire way of life. Conservatives don’t feel they NEED to be in change, just that they should be allowed to run their life the way THEY see fit. (Your life? Whatever. Do what you want. Just don’t threaten my family.)

            Cognitive Dissonance for a Conservative is what drives discussion (again, Peter uses these words but doesn’t seem to understand them). Take the following examples:

            - Models show that CO2 drives global temps
            - Global temps have failed to rise at the modelled temps despite CO2 levels increasing more than predicated.

            These two ideas are contradictory. If CO2 was driving temp then the higher than expected increase in CO2 levels SHOULD have shown greater warming than we are recording. Hence there is something here that we don’t understand and by extension, The Science is Not Settled, and we need to investigate more.

            Conservatives, provided you stay the drokk away from their families, are actually very open to ideas because deep down belief in ideas is not what drives them. Their family tends to drive them and if they need to change ideas in order to match in with what is CURRENTLY best for their families, they will. Their endgame is the family and their method is Current Best Practice (as far as is reasonably practical).

            I do hope this helps, because within context, Peter, your rules are gibberish.

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              Peter Fitzroy

              I was using this definition
              Cognitive dissonance refers to a situation involving conflicting attitudes, beliefs or behaviors. … For example, when people smoke (behavior) and they know that smoking causes cancer (cognition), they are in a state of cognitive dissonance.

              So adding CO2 to the atmosphere by burning fossil fuels, while knowing (if not admitting) that the world is warming – gives you the cognitive dissonance.

              Do you see?

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                AndyG55

                So you are describing the WHOLE the AGW agenda/farce/LIE with one simple phrase….

                COGNITIVE DISSONANCE..

                Trying to stop the one gas that is needed by ALL LIFE ON EARTH and has no other measurable effects on the atmosphere is massive COGNITIVE DISSONANCE.

                But that is the AGW meme.. utter stupidity.

                You have cognitive non-functionality PF. !!

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            AndyG55

            Yep, you started trying to denigrate everyone on the blog from your very first post here, PF

            Now you complain when you get a little bit back

            Grow a spine. !!!

            “So adding CO2 to the atmosphere by burning fossil fuels, while knowing (if not admitting) that the world is warming – gives you the cognitive dissonance”

            CO2 doesn’t and hasn’t caused that beneficial warming out of the COLDEST period in 10,00 years

            Only cognitive dissonance is your incredible ineptitude at producing any real evidence that CO2 actual causes any warming at all.

            Its all just a FANTASY little game to you, how you get your jollies.

            Regurgitating the same unproven CRAP science time and time again while producing absolutely nothing except fairy-tales to back up anything you say.

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            AndyG55

            “As this comments section a natural home of the most extreme pedants”

            hum…, “pedant” you mean , like, expecting you produce actual EVIDENCE ?????

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        MudCrab

        No opportunity for the target to respond??

        Seriously? Greta responds to the entire UN. She complains that her dream was to be boring and go to school like normal children but instead she is forced to travel via multi-million dollar yachts and be a global media star.

        When Greta opens her month the world media fall over each other. Nordic Thanos is currently easily in the top 10 for media bandwidth in the ENTIRE WESTERN WORLD.

        Pretending she is just some little kid being pushed to the side for school photos? HOW DARE YOU!

        Pretending she never gets permission to state her case? HOW DARE YOU!

        Face it, if Greta had her evil little way she would destroy your entire life.

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          Greg in NZ

          Dr. P.F. Cognitive-Dissonance, BS, needs to look up this double-whammy too:
          Stockholm syndrome, noun
          feelings of trust or affection felt in certain cases of kidnapping or hostage-taking by a victim toward a captor
          (see earlier link to pic of Schwartz György $oro$ and Tintin-in-pigtails)

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    Rocket Rod

    The breaking news is about 500 scientists petitioning the UN saying there is no climate emergency. Duh.
    The late Margaret Thatcher who started this warming nonsense has a lot to answer for.

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    David Maddison

    Greta and her mindless drone followers should watch this:

    Very good video on the anthropogenic global warming scam (47 min).
    https://youtu.be/M1VJtER2IUE

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    David Maddison

    Excellent article:

    https://www.heraldsun.com.au/rendezview/miranda-devine-charges-should-be-laid-over-the-abuse-of-greta-thunberg/news-story/6487887781fea18edea1e518d05be832

    It was a tale of two speeches, when the Australian Prime Minister and a teenage Swedish prophet of climate doom came to New York this week.

    While terrified Greta Thunberg was having a meltdown at the United Nations over climate change, Scott Morrison was talking about practical environmentalism, such as reducing plastic pollution in the Pacific Ocean, ahead of his own address to the UN.

    “I will be focusing very much on Australia’s response to global environmental challenges, which isn’t just about climate change,” he said. “It’s about plastics, it’s about oceans, it’s about recycling.”

    Let’s hope poor Greta doesn’t hear him. She might give him her death-stare.

    Youth Climate activist Greta Thunberg is clearly tormented, writes Miranda Devine. Picture: Johannes Eisele/AFP
    Youth Climate activist Greta Thunberg is clearly tormented, writes Miranda Devine. Picture: Johannes Eisele/AFP
    For the autistic Swedish schoolgirl, the so-called climate crisis has become a personal torment. She has taken literally what irresponsible adults have told her, that the planet is going to die in 11 years unless we stop using the fossil fuels which underpin human progress and have dragged one billion people out of poverty in the past couple of decades.

    It was sad watching the diminutive 16-year-old deliver her fierce speech to the UN climate action summit.

    She was genuinely distressed, face reddening, eyes brimming with tears, as she berated absurdly attentive world leaders.

    “This is all wrong. I shouldn’t be up here. I should be back in school on the other side of the ocean. Yet you all come to us for hope. How dare you!

    “You have stolen my dreams and my childhood with your empty words …

    See link for rest.

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    Dennis

    During the May 2019 federal election it was revealed that three young GetUp/Steggell rent-a-crowd participants were students from a Western Suburbs Sydney school for aspiring young actors and actresses.

    And now, many have commented that they could see similarities with Nazi Germany Youth Group images of blonde with pigtails girls and blonde boys, brown uniforms when watching the performance of Greta Thunberg, well she is a child actress …

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2019/09/the-young-actress-greta-thurnbergs-imdb-page-lists-her-acting-credits-with-contact-details-for-her-a.html

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    James Murphy

    “Garbage Human” has an interesting take on the personality cult of Greta Thunberg.
    https://youtu.be/ae-e3ziNiR4

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    pat

    whatever you do, don’t suggest CAGW is socialism in disguise…

    prog-left Truthout:

    26 Sept 2017: Truthout: Climate Change Brings Socialism and Science Together
    by Eve Ottenberg
    (Eve Ottenberg is a journalist who has reviewed books for The New York Times Book Review, The Philadelphia Inquirer, The Baltimore Sun, The Washington Post, Vanity Fair, The New Yorker‘s “Briefly Noted” section, USA Today, and many other newspapers and magazines)

    Thanks to climate change, science and socialism have become entwined in ways previously unimaginable. Socialism traces the causes of this catastrophe to the destructive and chaotic growth model of capitalism and advocates for a different system…
    Ian Angus’ new book, A Redder Shade of Green, (red for socialist revolution, green for ecological revolution) is about the prospect of ecosocialism in the face of capitalist ecocide…

    Socialism has not always been ecologically conscious, and for much of the 20th century it wasn’t, with disastrous results. “The socialism practiced by the countries of the Socialist Camp replicated the development model of capitalism,” said Cuban official Oswaldo Martinez in 2009, who, Angus reports, considered this competition, a la USSR, China and East European socialist countries, a mistake. A Redder Shade of Green is a very serious attempt to bury that past once and for all, and to ground socialism in scientific environmentalism…
    Since the 1990s, socialism has become much greener. Cuba and Bolivia have led the way…

    In his previous book, Facing the Anthropocene, Angus reported on the growing scientific consensus that capitalism’s most ferocious and brutal assault on the environment really took off after 1945. This postwar period has been dubbed “The Great Acceleration” and was marked by rising global temperatures, species extinction, ocean acidification and the ubiquity of plastics, which now literally pervade every corner and crevice of the Earth, including almost all tap water…READ ON
    https://truthout.org/articles/climate-change-brings-socialism-and-science-together/

    nothing politically partisan about Stefan:

    on his Twitter page, Stefan Rahmstorf, Head of Earth System Analysis at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research; professor of Physics of the Oceans at Potsdam University, chose to re-tweet the following:

    TWEET: ***Dr. Lucky Tran, Science/climate/immigrant justice Scientist/communications/organizer
    Powerful speech by @GretaThunberg in front of world leaders at the #UNClimateActionSummit, her most raw & emotional yet.
    “The eyes of all future generations are upon you. If you choose to fail us, I say we will never forgive you!”
    GRETA VIDEO POSTED BY **OLIVER WILLIS, SENIOR WRITER, SHAREBLUE, PREVIOUSLY MEDIA MATTERS FOR AMERICA
    23 Sept 2019
    https://twitter.com/rahmstorf

    Netroots Nation (prog left): Standing Up for Science: Lessons Learned from Science Organizing in the Trump Era
    Panelists include:
    ***Dr. Lucky Tran is a science communicator based at Columbia University, and holds a PhD in molecular biology from the University of Cambridge. As a steering committee member, he was one of the organizers of the March for Science…Lucky has also been an organizer with the People’s Climate March, Occupy Wall Street, and was a founding member of artivist collective, the Illuminator. Lucky is a refugee who grew up in Australia and now lives in New York.
    https://www.netrootsnation.org/nn_events/nn-17/standing-up-for-science-lessons-learned-from-science-organizing-in-the-trump-era/

    ***Oliver Willis being with Shareblue now and PREVIOUSLY with Media Matters for America is a moot point:

    Wikipedia: Shareblue
    Shareblue Media, formerly known as Blue Nation Review or Shareblue, is an American liberal news website owned by the journalist and political activist David Brock. Shareblue is within a consortium of political groups in Democratic strategist David Brock’s network…
    In November 2015 the site was sold by Moko Social Media Limited, a multi-media platform developer, to Media Matters for America founder David Brock…
    Brock said that the main goal of the website was to get presidential candidate Hillary Clinton elected…

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    David Maddison

    The Left are upping the ante on climate lies.

    This is a whole new strategy.

    They are now employing Nordic looking children dressed to look younger than they really are with plaits etc. with emotional appeals.

    Hmmmm… where have we seen that before?

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      Dennis

      It is worth thinking about the origin of Germany, first called Germania by the Romans, so called because of the “Viking” and “Goths” from Germanic Tribes who settled on that land now called Germany.

      And then the “Nordic” images and propaganda campaigns by Hitler’s Germany in the 1930s.

      Add to that the history of globalist George Soros and his WW2 background.

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        Greg in NZ

        I always thought she had a little Genghis Khan in her –

        https://www.britannica.com/place/Mongol-empire

        “The idea of a heavenly mission to rule the world was certainly present in Genghis Khan’s own mind… ‘one world, one ruler’… the desire to control the routes of intercontinental land trade”. Yep, that’s her – he hath returned!

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    pat

    excerpts found at electricity-infoUK. Times link takes you to the opening paras in praise of wind energy!

    24 Sept: UK Times: When fuel is £3 a litre, you’ll know we’re serious about climate change
    by Patrick Hosking
    (Patrick Hosking is a columnist and reporter on all things financial, economic and corporate. He was named Pensions Journalist of the Year in 2017 and 2018 and won the CFA Institute’s ethical and professional standards award in 2017)

    Labour activists are pushing for some very ambitious measures to become official party policy. They include shutting down North Sea oil and gas production, mass retro-fitting of homes with energy-efficient insulation and new boilers and creating a giant fund to buy and scrap the millions of gas-guzzlers on the roads today.
    The cost? About £500 billion, or 25 per cent of GDP, according to Grace Blakeley, a member of the Labour policy forum and a rising economics star in the Corbyn firmament.
    The gilt market would blow a gasket at the very thought of extra borrowing of £500 billion, equivalent to £26,000 per household…

    It would push the UK’s debt-to-GDP ratio from the present 82 per cent to more than 105 per cent and would send the cost of government borrowing soaring. It’s impossible to imagine it being done without a rise in the overall level of taxation.
    One has to worry, too, about the level of waste and the effectiveness of some of these dirigiste measures. Botched and rushed public interventions can be horribly expensive and of questionable value, as we are seeing with the smart meters campaign, which ministers have just admitted will take four years longer than expected and will cost £13.5 billion, £2 billion over-budget…

    The notion of fuel at £3 a litre will have petrolheads fuming. But it might be a lot more effective, quicker, liberal and certainly less onerous than the £26,000 per household bill envisaged by Labour’s modern-day New Dealers.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/883e8eba-de17-11e9-8221-1b98fc56091e

    24 Sept: Guardian: Labour unveils £83bn state windfarms plan before key climate vote
    by Fiona Harvey
    Labour is promising to build dozens of new state-owned offshore windfarms, at a cost of £83bn in public and private money…
    Labour would invest ***£6.2bn from its proposed £250bn national transformation fund in the new windfarms, along with a matching amount from the regional energy agencies which would replace the renationalised National Grid. The remaining ***£70bn would be sought from private sector investors, and the new windfarms would be ***51% owned by the public…
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/24/labour-unveils-83bn-state-windfarms-plan-before-key-climate-vote

    24 Sept: BBC: Labour plans billion pound public investment in offshore wind and electric cars
    Thirty-seven publicly-owned wind farms will be built, with the profits used to regenerate deprived coastal areas…
    SCROLL WAY DOWN FOR A COSTING
    The Conservatives said the wind farms plan could cost up to £80bn and that “nationalising huge swathes of the energy network” would set back efforts to tackle climate change…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49804455

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    theRealUniverse

    icecap.us
    The Climate Strikers Are Completely Unhinged
    Francis Menton, Manhattan Contrarian
    https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2019-9-23-the-climate-strikers-are-completely-unhinged

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    pat

    Grace Blakeley, the “rising economics star in the Corbyn firmament”, according to Hosking/Times. check the SkyUK video and the Meetup link, with Blakely to speak in Washington DC:

    TWEET: Grace Blakeley
    The central message of Stolen is that the political chaos engulfing the rich world is not simply a succession of random crisis – we’re living through the collapse of an entire system
    Finance-led growth is dying – what comes next is up to us
    VIDEO BLAKELEY ON SKY NEWS UK 1MIN 07SEC
    11 Sept 2019

    (BLAKELY RE-TWEETED 4H AGO)
    TWEET: Socialist Night School MDC DSA
    How did the Great Recession happen? What’s the role of finance under capitalism? Is another crisis coming and what can we do about it?
    Learn more at our Socialist Night School session on Financial Capitalism with @graceblakeley!
    LINK MEETUP
    24 Sept 2019
    https://twitter.com/graceblakeley?lang=en

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    James Murphy

    As for people stealing my dreams, I have had people tell me I could not do what I set out to do, that I was not capable. The soft bigotry of low expectations.

    I can’t pretend I never believed such people, but ultimately, I saw these reactions as a challenge, not an excuse to give up like Greta and her puppeteers seem to want everyone to do.

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      Greg in NZ

      Controlled demolition / implosion into their own footprint: hmm, sound familiar?

      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-15032614

      “Deaths attributed by some to ‘spontaneous combustion‘ occur when a living human body is burned without an apparent external source of ignition. Typically police or fire investigators find burned corpses but no burned furniture”. C’mon, surely the BBC wouldn’t lie to us, would they, really, really really?

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    pat

    24 Sept: RenewEconomy: South Australia unveils plans for 100% renewable hydrogen economy
    by Giles Parkinson
    South Australia has outlined plans for a 100 per cent renewable hydrogen economy, saying that its enormous wind and solar resources, (sic) saying there is nowhere else in the world as well positioned to produce, consume and export 100% green hydrogen.
    The plan was unveiled at an international hydrogen conference that began in Adelaide on Tuesday (LINK), in a state that is already sourcing well over 50 per cent of its electricity needs from wind and solar and which is on track to reach “net 100 per cent renewables” before 2030 and go well beyond that in the following decade.

    Just last week, the Germany-Australian Energy Transition Hub talked of “200 per cent renewables” as the most economic and effective plan to provide renewable power for electricity, transport and buildings, and to build an export industry. It seems South Australia will inevitably be the first to get there.
    The state’s Liberal government says the hydrogen plan will boost the economy and future jobs opportunities…

    Indeed, chief scientist Alan Finkel and his team has been working on an Australian hydrogen strategy, which he will finally get to formally present in late November when the COAG energy ministers meet for the first time this year, although he has been briefing state authorities in recent months…READ ALL
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australia-unveils-plans-for-100-renewable-hydrogen-economy-58723/

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      Serp

      A complete turkey. Just another of the sort of speciously formulated schemes Dr ‘caveat emptor‘ Finkel has been grifting off for decades.

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    pat

    read all:

    24 Sept: ClimateChangeNews: After failure in New York, we must reshape the politics of climate change
    By Nick Mabey
    (Nick Mabey is chief executive and a founder director of E3G)
    Despite the UN secretary general going far beyond the usual diplomatic niceties – only allowing leaders announcing real commitments a platform – the response from major polluters was virtually non-existent…

    The problem is also not with the deniers of climate science anymore. Outside the US and Australia, climate deniers have very little influence…
    https://climatechangenews.com/2019/09/24/failure-new-york-must-remake-politics-climate-change/

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    Geoffrey Williams

    Greta Iceberg – should get Nobel prize for actress of the year.
    Oops thats Hollywood isn’t it? Same thing though . .
    GeoffW

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      Greg in NZ

      Beata Ernman Thunberg, Greta’s Sister: 5 Facts You Need to Know

      https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/beata-ernman-thunberg/

      “Beata [14] is following in her parents’ footsteps and well on her way to becoming a famous singer and performer… She continues to appear on TV and at various concerts performing her single… Beata was diagnosed with ADHD, Asperger’s syndrome, OCD, and defiant syndrome when she was 12.

      “Beata is prone to unpredictable outbursts of anger where she screams obscenities at her mother… Beata’s OCD causes her to insist on walking with her left foot in front, refuse to step on certain parts of the sidewalk, and demand that her mother walk the same way“.

      “In Scenes From the Heart, Malena concludes that Beata and Greta’s disorders are ‘not a handicap’ but a ‘superpower.’” The two superpower kids‘ father “Svante Thunberg is an author, actor, and producer. He also manages Malena’s career”.

      Have Interpol or the FBI been alerted to this character? Hint: he’s in NY tonight, can’t be too hard to find…

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour is breaking the cosy consensus on climate change
    by Robert Shrimsley
    Financial Times – 23 Sept 2019
    Now Labour and the left are becoming more radical…
    But a sizeable chunk of voters is likely to be alienated by environmental radicalism…
    To Conservatives this is watermelon politics (green outside, red inside); a Trojan horse to break up the economic and financial underpinnings of capitalism…
    Job fears might offer another alliance if the Conservatives see electoral advantage in defending industry from green socialists…

    The worry is if the radicalism pushes the Conservatives into Trump-Morrison groove…
    The previous consensus may have been too cosy but there is little comfort in no consensus at all.
    https://www.ft.com/content/52fff5a6-ddde-11e9-b112-9624ec9edc59

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      Gerry, England

      There was the irony of union leaders speaking out against the green lunacy of Labour fearing correctly that it means job losses and whole industries upping and leaving. It should be labelled Project Venezuela. According to Rebecca Wrong-Daily (the speccy solicitor who now claims to know all about business) we will have ‘a new era of public luxury, a modern standard of living.’ Welcome to planet Red Labour.

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    robert rosicka

    There is a meme on faceache that uses The image of Greta that Jo has in the intro that made me laugh .

    There’s a hand with a snickers bar placed in just the right position to her left with the words

    “You’re not you when you’re hungry” .

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    Geoffrey Williams

    “the response from major polluters was virtually non-existant”
    they have all had enough of climate change being rammed down their throats!!
    GeoffW

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    pat

    23 Sept: NSW Mining: NEW MINING AD CAMPAIGN TO PROTECT NSW JOBS AND THE ECONOMY
    The NSW Minerals Council has launched a public advertising campaign calling for urgent changes to the NSW planning system to protect NSW jobs and the economy.
    The campaign commences today with initial print, radio and online advertising highlighting how the broken NSW planning system is costing jobs and investment in NSW, particularly in the regions.

    Launching the campaign, NSW Minerals Council CEO Stephen Galilee said the decision to initiate the campaign was not taken lightly and comes after months of engagement and warnings to the Minister for Planning and others in the government about the risk of the planning system to jobs and investment.
    “While the Deputy Premier and others in the NSW Government have shown strong support for mining projects and mining communities, the Planning Minister seems oblivious to the damage being done by the crisis in his planning system, especially in the regions.”…READ ON
    http://www.nswmining.com.au/menu/media/news/2019/september/new-mining-ad-campaign-to-protect-nsw-jobs-and-the

    Reuters’ spin:

    24 Sept: Reuters: Australian mining lobby launches ad blitz urging reforms after coal projects blocked
    by Melanie Burton
    MELBOURNE – An influential lobby group for Australia’s multi-billion dollar coal mining industry has launched an advertising blitz to rally public support for an overhaul of state planning laws after a commission blocked new projects citing climate change concerns.
    Funded by the mining industry including global giant BHP Group, the New South Wales Minerals Council said on Tuesday it would draw on a multi-million dollar “fighting fund” in promoting the campaign “to protect NSW jobs and the economy”…
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-mining-coal/australian-mining-lobby-launches-ad-blitz-urging-reforms-after-coal-projects-blocked-idUSKBN1W90CU

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    Power Grab

    Aren’t the commies simply trying to use Greta as sort of “Pied Piper” to engage foolish children in their scam? They identify with her because they’re young and she’s young.

    Some are demanding to lower the voting age to as low as 8.

    Of course, first they force-feed fear to the children over the CAGW myth, then they trick them into abandoning the road to learning, and lead them over the self-destructive cliff of rage-filled fanaticism.

    If they were to get what they are demanding, and if they survive, I wonder at what age they might realize their folly and regret giving up their rights and privileges as a member of a comfortable civilization?

    No…it’s hard to imagine they will live long enough to see the truth.

    Do any of the parents of the children even realize what a scam CAGW is? I wonder…

    Can a parent who doesn’t believe in CAGW sue the media for photographing their children on these marches? I doubt that they got signed releases to use their likenesses like they are. The children are too young to sign a contract, anyway.

    Can they get a class action lawsuit going over this?

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      AndyG55


      “Aren’t the commies simply trying to use Greta as sort of “Pied Piper” to engage foolish children in their scam?”

      That needs stating LOUD and OFTEN.

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    Victor Grauer

    “As the situation becomes increasingly desperate in the eyes of radicalized reformers, the danger of extreme actions, including bouts of terrorism, becomes increasingly more likely. With fire in their eyes and teeth filed razor sharp, cadres of organizations like Extinction Rebellion will soon constitute a veritable army of thought police, a quasi gestapo of right-minded inquisitors ready to stop at nothing until all “deniers” are silenced, and the oil, coal and gas industries, not to mention the plastic industry – and let’s not forget all those burping cows – are shut down for good. And their actions will be justified. Because, according to “the science,” half measures will not be sufficient. . .

    After years of puzzling over this extremely perplexing issue I’ve gradually come to the realization that we are on the cusp of a period of world history unlike any other. Indeed, we are entering an era of mind-bending uncanniness fueled by a toxic mix of sheer hysteria and helplessness. Impossible demands will be made that will universally be regarded as necessary, a double-bind worthy of a Derrida essay or a Zen koan. To be blunt, we will be expected to destroy our world in order to save it.”

    From “Existential Threat: Facing the Climate Change Abyss” — available at Amazon.com:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XZLQ1G4

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    Hanrahan

    A Chinese professor, speaking on behalf of the CCP, out of the Chinese Embassy in Canberra today threatened us with war if we were to side with the US.

    I have said it before but China today is where Germany was in the ’30s.

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    Jimmy Walter

    Don’t know if you know, but there was a Children’s Crusade in 1212 that destroyed
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Crusade
    The Children’s Crusade was a failed popular crusade by European Christians to regain the Holy Land from the Muslims, said to have taken place in 1212. The crusaders left areas of Northern France, led by Stephen of Cloyes, and Germany, led by Nicholas. The traditional narrative is likely conflated from some factual and mythical events which include the visions by a French boy and a German boy, an intention to peacefully convert Muslims in the Holy Land to Christianity, bands of children marching to Italy, and children being sold into slavery. Many children were tricked by merchants and sailed over to what they thought were the holy lands but, in reality, were slave markets.

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    How to do without pesticides when diseases and insects are ravaging? That simple ! Just die! And all cancers, plagues or cholera will go away with you!
    It is the overflowing imagination of certain groups of Down’s syndrome who advise the abandonment of visits to pharmacists who sell only pesticides! Because, all remedies are chemical, except those who want to heal with herbal teas against cancer, pest or cholera.

    Go to war against toxic gas emissions? That simple ! Just turn off the magma of the Earth! Hahahaha!

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    Gerry, England

    Is there something wrong with the playback of the video? All I got was this whining noise. :-)

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    David Wojick

    Here is an advance copy of an article I just submitted for publication. I find Greta & Co potentially very useful.

    Is climate alarmism tearing itself apart?

    By David Wojick

    First it was AOC and the Sunrise Movement versus Pelosi and the moderate Democrats in Congress. Now it is Greta Thunberg and the so-called youth movement versus the UN and the world’s major governments. Between the moderates in power and the new radicals, climate alarmism has split wide open. This has to hurt the cause, which is a good thing indeed.

    The global split happened with elegant quickness. On Friday a million or more climate extremists marched around the world. On Monday, at UN headquarters, Greta Thunberg denounced the major world governments to their faces, while they dutifully explained that they had no new ambitions. The contrast between radicals and moderates was hilarious, and telling.

    The problem for the alarmists is enormous. The new radicals are making demands that are impossible, not just politically but technologically. Complete decarbonisation of the global economic system by 2030, for example.

    To make matters worse, the radical climate alarmists have been joined by the social justice warriors, creating the nonsensical goal of climate justice. There has always been a vague undercurrent of this in UN climate deliberations, but now social justice is front and center, vying with decarbonisation in the goal department.

    The moderates are trying to press on but their efforts are being denounced by the extremists. Germany just wrought, with great political difficulty, what the moderates consider a bold new climate action plan. It was immediately denounced as trivial by the extremists. Realism is verboten.

    How is the alarmist establishment to handle this schism? At this point their biggest enemy is not the skeptics; it is the extremists. Fighting on two fronts is politically damaging at best.

    But it remains to be seen just how enduring and active the radical wing really is. Greta, AOC and the big rallies may just be a green flash in the pan. In fact AOC seems to have faded from view already.

    Perhaps the next big test will be the upcoming UN Climate Summit in Chile, beginning late November. Unlike Monday’s no action one-day Climate Summit, the Chile meeting is the real deal, the annual formal negotiations under the Paris Accord. These annual meetings are each called a Conference of the Parties (to the UN global climate change treaty) or COP. They routinely draw 20,000 negotiating delegates, from almost 200 countries, and last well over a week.

    By coincidence this will be an especially humdrum COP and Chile is far away from the centers of extremism. The 2018 COP was a biggie, because it worked out the detailed rules for the Paris Agreement. The 2020 COP will be a monster for two reasons. First, all the governments are supposed to come up with new, Soviet style, 5 year plans, with greater ambition than their first plan. Second, a mythical $100 billion a year is supposed to start flowing from the developed countries, like America, to the developing countries, including China. Moderate alarmism might even collapse under these twin pressures.

    But in Chile this year there are no big issues on the table, just a lot of detail work. So the big question is will the new radical wave rise up in the wake of the 2018 COP? If not then they might lose momentum.

    Or they might save their collective strength for the U.S. Presidential race and the 2020 COP. I imagine the radical leaders are already discussing these options, or as soon as they finish partying.

    In this context one interesting possibility is that the radicals will support a third party green candidate in the U.S. presidential election, as well as green challengers to moderate Democrat incumbents (as AOC did). I can easily imagine Bernie Sanders running for president as an independent, if he fails to get the Democrat nomination, which is likely.

    If the radicals bolt the Democratic Party and split the liberal tickets it will be very good news for the President Trump and Republicans. This is the potential upside to the new green extremism.

    As things stand now the climate alarmist movement is coming apart at the seams. I say let her rip.

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    JC

    There are enough risk markers to indicate Greta may in future have a higher propensity towards self-harm or suicide. Such tragedy may be compounded if the young women on social media who follow her lead try to emulate her. I noticed that the “Fridays for Future” NGO seems to have mainly attracted young adult women and based on the interviews on Irish national television here in Ireland (1),(2),(3) they seemed conversant on the subject in the same manner as old experienced politicians i.e. saying nothing of substance but taking up lots of air time. The risk here is this NGO has used social media to connect with these young women and train them, you will notice in the background that the protesters are primarily young adult women of high school age all drawn by the social media attention that the public relations campaign built around Greta has generated, there is a slight risk that if Greta starts self harming that some of these girls may also follow her lead.

    Gretas message is not a positive one and she did not win many converts among the many adults watching her speech on national news, she came across as an obnoxious teenager to people who don’t have a bone to pick in the climate fight. In fact one radio presenter here found himself having to apologise to the outrage mob (1),(2) for being slightly critical of Greta. Given that the UN conference failed to achieve its climate finance objective, I expect that she will be sidelined after the Chile event of not before.

    I think given the actions of the American Federal Reserve bank since August there are indications that another crisis is underway and combined in Europe with Brexit and ongoing political instability in France and Italy, 2020 may be an eventful year where global warming takes its position once again on the bottom of peoples lists of concerns. Germany which is the de-facto leader of the EU since Britain has exited (in spirit anyway) is pushing for more carbon tax, this is essentially a graduated tax aimed at denying the working class (i.e. not to be confused with the welfare class) access to fossil fuels and has already been met with resistance in France, expect more tax payers to revolt.

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    Silly Billy

    I love how these insecure people attack a child for pointing out the obvious. Get out into the enviroment and see what’s going on. Sitting in the basement and typing rebuttals to the debate is pointless but if it makes you feel good great.

    Sure we are not going to die tomorrow by huge floods or 60 degree days but the big issue is water and food. Even slight changes more often put food resources at risk. And in a growing world that is the worry.

    It’s a culmination of things and not just one thing that will dig the hole that we can’t get out of.

    But you can just turn your aircon on and drink coke i suppose.

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    Greta made a perfectly rehearsed show in the UN. She was trained for that show, she had a well-written script, and she had to read it while addressing the Assembly… because she is an Apseerger sufferer she couldn’t deliver her message without the script. In this Youtube video, a journalist asks Greta about what kind of message she was going to send to the Assembly… and she couldn’t answer. She asked what (“again”) the question, and had the question repeated until the journalist gave up…

    https://youtu.be/0bwLt_5t73g

    [Eduardo, this is about trying to find a balance between confronting those who're using this girl shamefully and making Greta the center of condemnation or spectacle which she does not deserve.] AZ

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      Looks pretty bad, but she is so young — the kindest view is that perhaps she was overwhelmed with the attention. Almost like a panic attack? Does she do better in other interviews? Anyone bothered to watch her?

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      she might have genuinely misunderstood the question if you break down the question literally it could be hard to interpret.

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      Roy Hogue

      I had to look it up.

      Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger’s, is a developmental disorder characterised by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.

      Eduardo, the Internet does not make me an expert but this does not sound like someone who will be able to stand on her own through life. Compassion for Greta, who has a problem that takes away a part of who she might be and leaves her with lifelong problems, does not require me to show any compassion towards those who are using her. And as of earlier this evening she has been splashed all across television all across America, as big a spectacle as they can make of her. As the moderator note says, she does not deserve that.

      When I saw what you posted I debated for some time before saying anything. But seeing how Greta was treated today I couldn’t stay silent. Her problem needs to be out in the open so no one can hope to use her without its being known that she probably could never come up with the idea herself.

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