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Windpower set to destroy Victorian baseload power just as it did in South Australia

Crash Test Dummy Update: Data analysis thanks to Tom Quirk

In the South Australian experiment total wind power capacity is now far above the average state demand most hours of the day. This effectively destroys any economic case for cheap baseload power (I hear that was the aim). This fleet of unreliable generators is being supported by forced subsidies through power bills from all around Australia. Sadly, despite this rain of money falling in SA, those funds end up with renewable investors, not South Australian consumers who pay some of the highest rates in the world.

These legislated subsidies have fed so much wind power that sometimes the state produces more power than it can use. That excess power will be exported, but may or may not be actually useful at whatever time it happens. Unless it happens at peak-time, it will be eating into the efficiency of baseload providers in other states.  Like an infection, inefficiency and underutilization of infrastructure spreads…

This volatility appears to make freak wholesale price spikes more likely. Quirk calculates that one hot January day last year was so wildly expensive in South Australia it added $2/MWh to the entire years average wholesale cost. Can’t beat that for excitement in the trading room floor.

 

REC, Demand, Renewable Energy Certificates, Electricity supply, Demand, load curve, Graph, South Australia, June, winter.

Figure 4: Average monthly demand in 30 minute intervals for June 2018 and the maximum and minimum demand. The green area marks the 1,806 MW capacity of operating wind farms in South Australia.

 

Victoria is determined to follow South Australia. While it currently has a small proportion of windpower — there are so many new unreliable plants being planned that these will randomly, but inevitably make cheap baseload economically impossible there too. The cost of wholesale electricity prices will rise, which will work out very profitably for renewables companies and electricity retailers and any generators that survives.

REC, Demand, Renewable Energy Certificates, Electricity supply, Demand, load curve, Graph, Victoria,  June, winter.

Figure 6: Average monthly demand in 30 minute intervals for June 2018 and the maximum and minimum demand. The green block represents the 1,549 MW capacity of installed Wind power, and the graded-green block represents the 5,525 MW planned wind farms for Victoria

With so much windpower coming and going on the daily load curve, coal and gas infrastructure will sit idle for random parts of the day. Staff will watch cat videos on youtube. Mortgage bills will keep coming. Maintenance costs will go up. The coal and gas plants will have to recover all the same costs in fewer hours a day so will bid higher to recover the costs. (Gone forever are the $30/MWh bids.)

In the US windpower makes gas power $30/MWh more expensive. This is added to the gas bill when really it’s just one of a thousand hidden renewable costs.  Renewable energy saves fossil fuel, but wastes infrastructure, land, labor and resources. Like an infection, wind power damages the efficiency and economics of every other generator, except for perhaps solar power, which is like wind, a rot in the system. See the Duck curve, the 1000MW that goes AWOL and the warnings. Solar energy is energy we don’t need for most of the year.

No sane investor would purchase a coal plant in these circumstances (unless they could sell off-grid in private deals to Chinese Cryptocurrency dealers). Only the government would be crazy enough to buy one. Perhaps that’s part of the plan too?

Thanks to Tom Quirk for trekking through these numbers and charts. The Crash Test Dummy can see trouble ahead but is speeding up, the REC bill is growing.

It doesn’t have to be this way.

Jo

____________________________________

The National Electricity Market, Victoria and Wholesale power prices

Guest Post by Tom Quirk with help from Jo Nova

There are ways to rescue the country from the strangling morass of regulation in the supply of electricity. The fundamental problem is the variable supply of wind power. Its privileged entry into the wholesale market has and will destroy the financial viability of coal burning baseload power stations.

The wholesale cost of electricity is not just affected by wholesale bids, but also by the Renewable Energy Target. To meet that target, retailers are forced to buy Renewable energy certificates (RECs). Even if prices fall on the National Electricity Market (NEM) the total cost of RECs is set to rise. If the current wave of approved wind farm developments in Victoria goes ahead, it has the potential to destroy the financial viability of baseload power in the state. To stop this we must limit the construction of new wind farms and restrict the privileged entry of wind power into the NEM ahead of all other sources of power.

NEM and Renewable Energy Certificates
The Australian Energy Regulator has some interesting data on the contribution wind power makes in the five states in the NEM. There are three useful pieces of information

  1. the percentage of electricity derived from wind power in each state
  2. the Renewable Energy Certificate values that have risen from $35 to over $80 per megawatt hour and
  3. the annual volume weighted average spot prices

The fraction of electricity supplied by wind power (Figure 1) and the annual price for REC’s (Figure 2) multiplied together gives the additional cost of each MWh of wholesale electricity.

 

Renewable Energy Certificates, Graph.

Figure 1: Annual fraction of energy supplied by wind

Renewable Energy Certificates, Graph.

Figure 2: Annual prices for REC’s from 2011 to 2016 and estimates for 2017 and 2018

 

The annual volume weighted average spot prices are shown in Figure 3 as well as contributions to the wholesale price of electricity from REC’s

Renewable Energy Certificates, Graph.

Figure 3: Annual volume weighted average spot prices and contributions to the wholesale price for generators from REC’s

Victoria had the lowest annual spot prices in the NEM for the 2016-2017 financial year, though Hazelwood closed in March 2017 toward the end of that period. The next year, Victorian wholesale prices rose $30 as bidding behavior of the market changed markedly.(See the AER report).

Price spikes distort the market

During a heatwave on January 18, 2017 half hour wholesale prices reached over $10,000 per megawatt hour in both South Australia and Victoria. This single day would have added $2.00 to the annual spot price.

What about retail prices?

The end point retail price must not only cover the wholesale costs but also the Renewable Energy Certificates.

The Renewable Energy Target requires each and every retailer selling from the NEM to buy a certain amount of renewable energy to meet the set target. This figure was 6% in 2011 and is 16% for 2018. So the REC contributions that go to the renewable generators need to be sourced from all states. For the year ending June 2011 the REC adds about $1 per MWh to the volume weighted average spot price and for the last financial year, $5 per MWh.

Some states are reaping in the REC payments

State by state, the wholesale prices and REC contributions are given in Tables 1 and 2 and in Figure 3 (above). The consumers in those states are not benefiting though, only the generators.

 

Table 1 Wholesale electricity prices for 2010-2011

2010 – 11

Annual

spot

price

REC contribution to generators

REC contributions

Annual

spot

price with REC cost

direct from

state

 consumers

from

 others

states

New South Wales

$43

$0

$1

($1)

$44

Queensland

$34

$0

$1

($1)

$35

South Australia

$42

$8

$1

$7

$43

Tasmania

$31

$2

$1

$1

$32

Victoria

$29

$1

$1

$30

 

Table 2 Wholesale electricity prices for 2017-2018.

2017 – 18

Annual

spot

price

REC contribution to generators

REC contributions

Annual

spot

price with REC cost

direct from

state

 consumers

from

 others

states

New South Wales

$83

$3

$5

($2)

$88

Queensland

$76

$0

$5

($5)

$81

South Australia

$111

$36

$5

$31

$116

Tasmania

$91

$9

$5

$4

$96

Victoria

$104

$8

$5

$3

$109

 

It is clear that South Australia, Tasmania and Victoria renewable generators are being subsidized by consumers in New South Wales and Queensland. Queensland has no significant wind power and is the second largest consumer of electricity (just overtaking Victoria in the last few years). It is the largest provider of subsidies to the southern states.

Another unsatisfactory feature of this scheme is that “gentailers” with wind farms both receive revenue from the purchase of REC’s and as retailers bid for the certificates.

South Australia and Victoria

South Australia and Victoria demonstrate the oncoming problems of renewables in the NEM.

South Australia set the example – showing how the influence of unreliable renewables can damage the profits of baseload stations, contributing to making them uneconomic to run.

The state has 1,806 MW of wind power, so much that at times the turbines generate more electricity than the state can use and it must be exported – though it may not be at a time when other states need it. The excess wind power can impinge on profit margins of baseload providers in other states.

The demand for electricity peaks in the late afternoon or evening and is at a minimum in the early morning. Thus demand varies from 800 MW up to 3,000 MW each day. So with wind farms capable of supplying up to 1,806 MW it is not possible for baseload power stations to run at an 80% utilization rate. The average demand for June 2018 is shown in Figure 4 along with the operating capacity of wind farms in South Australia.

 

REC, Demand, Renewable Energy Certificates, Electricity supply, Deman, load curve, Graph, South Australia, June, winter.

Figure 4: Average monthly demand in 30 minute intervals for June 2018 and the maximum and minimum demand. The green area marks the 1,806 MW capacity of operating wind farms in South Australia.

Given that wind power must be accepted over electricity from more reliable generators, the summer curve shows that there is no room in the South Australian market for any low cost reliable generator to operate without random significant periods of underutilization.

Renewable Energy Certificates, Graph.

Figure 5: Average monthly demand in 30 minute intervals for January 2018 and the maximum and minimum demand. The green line is the 1,806 MW capacity of operating wind farms.

Thus the installed wind farm capacity has been sufficient to deprive baseload power stations of running at their most efficient, competitive and low cost pattern.

Victoria has not learned from the example of South Australia. Victoria is planning to add 3,976 MW of wind farms to the present total of 1,549 MW. Progress is listed in Table 3

 

Table 3 Victorian wind farms capacity in MW

Status

Capacity (MW)

Operating

1,549

Under construction

  662

Planning approved

2,312

Seeking approval

  393

Proposed

  350

Feasibility

  259

Total

5,525

 

There is at present 1,549 MW of operating wind farms that are not a serious disruption to baseload power stations. The demand varies from 4,000 MW  up to potentially 9,000 MW. The average demand for June 2018 is shown in Figure 5 along with both the current operating capacity of wind farms in Victoria and the planned future capacity.

If a further 3,976 MW of wind farm joins the NEM then Victoria will have reached the point where, like South Australia, baseload stations are not financially viable. This can be seen in Figure 5 where the total wind farm capacity of 5,525 MW is well above the minimum demand in the early morning where steady demand can be met by baseload supply.

 

REC, Demand, Renewable Energy Certificates, Electricity supply, Demand, load curve, Graph, Victoria,  June, winter.

Figure 6: Average monthly demand in 30 minute intervals for June 2018 and the maximum and minimum demand. The green block represents the 1,549 MW capacity of installed Wind power, and the graded-green block represents the 5,525 MW planned wind farms for Victoria

And in the Victorian summer trouble is coming:

Renewable Energy Certificates, Graph.

Figure 7: Average monthly demand for January 2018 and the maximum and minimum demand. The pale and dark green lines are 1,549 MW capacity of installed and 5,525 MW planned wind farms for Victoria 

A serious consequence of increased wind power is that although the spot price in the NEM may fall as some high cost gas and diesel generators are priced out of the bid stack in the market, the cost of REC’s will continue to rise. Also the costs of all other generators rise to compensate for the under utilization, and the costs of storage, and FCAS etc, all rise too.

Comparing electricity use in South Australia to Victoria gives an indication of the consequences of this action.

For South Australia, with average demand at 1432 MW and 1806 MW of operating wind farms, the utilisation (capacity factor) is 33% and supplies 596 MW of demand.

For Victoria, with average demand of 4708 MW and 1549 MW of operating wind farms, the utilisation (capacity factor) is 29% and supplies 434 MW  of demand. So if wind power increases from 1549 MW to 5525 MW then Victoria will generate 34% of its energy, 1602 MW from wind, and the added cost of the REC’s will be $29 per MWh assuming the present REC price. This is an increase from the present REC cost of $9 per MWh.

So consumers in NSW and Queensland will have to also pay for those REC certificates if they are a bit slow in building their own wind farms.

A conclusion

The developments discussed here will increase energy prices as REC’s are included. Further the increasing wind farm supply will not allow coal burning baseload stations to operate as baseload for supply. As a consequence they would have to operate with variable output and with subsidies.

The government faces the absurd situation of extending subsidies from renewables sources to coal fired sources whose existence was supposed to fade away as cheap renewables took over.

The real problem is the treatment of wind in the NEM as a privileged supplier of energy ahead of other sources. This is where the reform needs to be.

Let’s start by cancelling all approved or planned wind farms that have not already commenced construction. Then let’s cap the RET program at current levels, and discuss how fast we can reasonably cut the RET to zero.

Then level the playing field — requiring all generators — including wind farms — to deliver reliable energy for half hour periods as “dispatchable” energy.

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Rating: 9.5/10 (70 votes cast)
Windpower set to destroy Victorian baseload power just as it did in South Australia, 9.5 out of 10 based on 70 ratings

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128 comments to Windpower set to destroy Victorian baseload power just as it did in South Australia

  • #
    wal1957

    Then level the playing field — requiring all generators — including wind farms — to deliver reliable energy for half hour periods as “dispatchable” energy.

    I would add to that and penalise those generators who bid, but cannot then supply. Exceptions to the rule would be mechanical failure. This then puts the onus of supply squarely on the bidding generator.

    For far too long our parliamentarians and regulators have ignored the reality of intermittent ‘green’ power. The FACT is that even tho SA has available, (at times), 1800MW of wind power, none of that can be considered ‘dispatchable!
    The wind farm generators cannot guarantee any amount of power generation at any time, day or night. That is a very simple fact that our politicians and their ‘expert’ advisors cannot seem to grasp.

    490

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      I would add to that and penalise those generators who bid, but cannot then supply

      Yep. Those penalties should be contained in the contract.

      The up-shot is that generators only contract to supply for power that they are certain they can deliver.

      How do wind and solar generators do that?

      They enter into secondary contacts with reliable coal, gas or diesel generators or invest in back-up themselves (gas, diesel, batteries) and take the hit on their bottom line accordingly.

      A contract to deliver needs to be a contract to deliver.

      350

    • #
      Hanrahan

      I would add to that and penalise those generators who bid, but cannot then supply.

      If you bid and can’t supply you then buy at spot and supply at the bid price. Mines and others can claim force majeure for “acts of God” but “the wind dropped” hardly qualifies. This is why I think hydro is the greatest thing sing since sliced bread, they know how much water they have and how much they can use weeks out.

      110

      • #
        C. Paul Barreira

        But Hydro cannot know when supplies will be replenished—i.e., when it will rain and how much it will rain. “Weeks” are all very well, but months. . . ?

        140

        • #
          William

          Yes, but remember that the rain that does fall will not fill our dams.
          And our children will never know what snow is.

          90

    • #
      Pop49

      Also when these wind and solar farms are actually producing plenty of power, the coal in the boilers of the coal fired power station is still burning, you cant just turn it off when we are using other scorces of unreliable power. So what is the point of wind and solar if we still have to have coal burning at the same time?

      281

    • #
      Geoff

      We have a RET. we need a vRET. That is not a renewable Energy Target, it is a very RELIABLE ENERGY TARGET. To get coal fired power stations up the renewables need to BUY vRETs. Its cheaper than batteries.

      30

  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    Tell your politicians “No more donations, no more support until you do one simple act: SCRAP THE RET.”

    The harmless-sounding RET is the single biggest impediment to sanity in the NEM market.

    What I have not seen is discussion about Section 92 of the Constitution of Australia. … trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free.

    Electricity seems to me to be a mobile good that is traded. If a government body orders that a State shall provide some electricity to another State, and if that incurs an abnormal cost, is that a free trade and is it unconstitutional? Has anyone seen a learned discussion along these lines? Geoff

    360

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      So much of what has happened is immoral and unethical.

      My only hope is that the behaviours that have led to this current ugliness can be shown to be Illegal and or Unconstitutional and that those responsible can be identified and prosecuted.

      KK

      221

      • #
        yarpos

        Morals and ethics depend on your point of view, and how heavily you are into relativism.

        20

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Reply to Yarpos at 2.1.1

          If someone changes everything about the provision of electricity in order to collect an Extra thousand dollars every year from every family.

          And if then, they redirect that money to places and people unknown with no benefit to the public or nation.

          It is very obvious that something very very wrong has occurred.

          Trust has been broken and that’s unethical, deceitful and immoral.

          The Only question is: was there legal basis for the action, was there factual justification for the actions taken.

          Who knows.

          KK

          100

          • #
            yarpos

            Agree, if that is your perspective. The fact that it happens and continues to happen means most people see no issue at all
            .

            00

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              But it’s hidden from them.

              It’s not that they’re stupid, they trust their leaders.

              Unfortunately.

              20

    • #
      Peter C

      Yes I agree.

      Tell your politicians “No more donations, no more support until you do one simple act: SCRAP THE RET.”

      Sent to Minister Frydenberg today:

      Dear Minister,

      PLEASE spare us any more financial pain with our energy costs.

      Heating is a necessity in winter and air conditioning in summer. Those things need energy, which is becoming unaffordable.

      Two things are to blame and your government is responsible for both of them;
      1. Renewable energy gets FIRST PRIORITY on the NEM,
      2. REC’s (Renewable Energy Certificates).

      Pleased fix.

      70

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    Solar subsidy had role in 20pc bill rise: Origin
    The Australian-17 hours ago
    A 20 per cent spike in electricity prices last year was partly driven by a federal rooftop solar subsidy that crept up as a “sleeper” charge on consumers’ power bills …

    just posted the above on jo’s previous “No bias” thread, along with the latest from Canada -

    2 Aug: Carbon Pulse: Ontario formally launches lawsuit against federal carbon price

    1 Aug: Financial Post: Bloomberg: Ottawa eases carbon tax thresholds to help Canada’s big industries compete

    2 Aug: Financial Post: Feds mull further changes to carbon tax plan amid U.S. tax changes and tariffs

    VIDEO: 8mins36secs: 1 Aug: Bloomberg: Scaled-back carbon tax still ‘economic poison’: Scott Moe (Saskatchewan Premier)

    170

  • #
    Zigmaster

    The concept of renewables being part of the energy mix is a total nonsense. If renewables need base load back up to support it cut out the middle man and just have base load power. It also makes a nonsense of any claim that renewables are cheaper than baseload. Baseload alone has to be cheaper than baseload plus renewables which ever way one looks at it.

    The only potential I see for renewables is in remote communities where the back up could be a small generator and they are not part of the grid.

    331

    • #

      Oh you kiddy-renewables
      thinkin’ it’s suh-muhr
      ti-i-ime ‘n there ain’t
      nothin’ can ha-ahm you
      with yr daddy ‘n mammy
      stah-a-andin’ by-y-y.

      H/t Ira Gershwin.

      50

    • #

      Except that is likely not to work most of the time. I was at White Cliffs where they had the first solar plant in Australia, it had many problems and the supervisor on the site had to clean the dishes weekly beside the almost daily maintenance. The diesel ran so often that it started to break down and the local motel had to install their own diesel (same capacity as the station diesel) to keep the lights on for guests. The solar plant was shut down and White Cliffs connected to Broken Hill where power is generated by diesel engines. I, also, visited Cooper Pedy where there is a wind turbine which was not turning so power supplied by the diesels. The locals said that the diesels are required most of the time. With both wind and solar the backup power needs to be the same capacity so is more expensive at remote locations than having an efficient unmanned diesel running all the time. Remote mine sites run their own diesel power stations.

      290

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    Just hope and pray that those wind “farms” don’t get put near any More humans.

    VLF pulsing doesn’t occur according to the renewables proponents.

    KK

    111

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Of course it doesnt…just like infrasound absolutely *cant* turn human organs to mush at the right intensity…..

      If you look at the renewables “DNA” you find the same anti-human, irresponsible, unworkable and poverty making socialism that desyroys countries and creates misery…but we knew that.

      So I wonder how its all going to end – small compounds forvthe Elite “Mad Max” style, complete with diesel gennies, while the rest of the country turns into a failed state like Zimbabwe…..

      160

  • #

    Are those in authority really this obtuse?

    Not possible, I’d say. Something else is afoot. There’s corruption and carpetbagging, of course. But above and beyond the corruption and carpetbagging…there’s something else again. From Murdoch to the ABC, from Wikileaks to CNN, you will NOT read or hear about it.

    You’re used to just turning on heaters? You’re used to humans = girl + boy? You’re used to having an ethnicity of your own and living in something called a nation? You thought democracy was choice and not a fixed menu printed in two different colours? Shocked that the money your country has to borrow in dizzying amounts only becomes real when you have to pay it back…but because the money didn’t exist in the first place it somehow doesn’t matter so long as you keep borrowing? Booked your flight to Mars because Earth just won’t be any good soon? Your leftie mates love missile attacks more than their organic avocados? Your conservative government shovels money to Clintons?

    These things would have been at least abnormal just fifteen years ago. Mostly, they would have been considered bizarre. Yet how quickly we accept the bizarre when it’s thrust at us every day in every way.

    Downgrading a superb energy resource (while still depending on it and while madly raffling it off o/s for cash) would have been a bizarre notion even after the turn of this century. Running a complex modern economy on antique windpower and other peashooter renewables is a completely bizarre idea which would have been laughed at not long ago.

    The frogs are coming to a boil.

    What can I do about it? I’m weak enough to turn on the TV tonight to watch a bit of Rugby League. But I’m not so weak that I’ll be turning it on one minute before or leaving it on one minute after the game.

    Turn them off. Talk one human to another about what it happening. Be prepared to be ridiculed and excluded. Remember that most people still back up every day for their dose of media in order to feel connected. Be realistic. People who are tired and busy can’t spend every spare hour delving and questioning. That used to be my situation.

    But don’t be shy. This is getting quite urgent.

    362

    • #
      PeterS

      Yes either as you are implying there is something really sinister being perpetrated by both major parties or as more likely the case they are just clueless and incompetent. Either way the end result will be pretty much the same.

      191

      • #
        el gordo

        What you are witnessing is the formation of a one party state, everyone singing from the same hymn sheet.

        Here we see them organising Renewable Energy Zones in NSW, which is a strong reflection of the forces against us. This madness needs to be stopped immediately, but I won’t be losing any sleep over it.

        https://www.compliancequarter.com.au/new-energy-zones-identified-in-new-south-wales/

        182

      • #
        ROM

        PeterS @ #6.1
        .

        “Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence”.
        .
        author Unknown
        ——–
        I will ascribe to “incompetence” as the root cause of our problems.

        “Malice” requires some thought and even some intelligence and planning to instigate if it is to be effective.

        “Incompetence” just happens and is integral part of a lot of [ political and bureacratic ? ] intellects where it shows up as as a regular characteristic that needs no planning to energise and instigate .

        112

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          My view on incompetence vs malice is like stating a whirlwind going through a junk yard can build a complete car…..

          You cant get so many things wrong consistently like we have in this country by chance, its just not statistically possible….

          120

          • #
            Hanrahan

            I’m with you Steve. I find Australian politics petty and boring, at least I don’t see anyone willing and able to change things.

            By comparison watching US politics is like watching endless House Of Cards episodes. Every morning I read Breitbart/Drudge first thing. There it is obvious that malice is the ONLY explanation of the near civil war they are engaged in. If Trump is impeached/assassinated [both distinct possibilities] the US, and the rest of “the free world” are in peril. Hungary, Poland and Italy, beacons as they are, cannot sway the world.

            Where we go one, we go all.

            171

            • #
              PeterS

              Hanrahan, the left in the US are already at “war” with Trump. So in effect the civil war has already started with a pre-emptive attack with minimal violence exhibited by the left in the streets and against “freedom fighters” who just want to make public speeches in peace – it just hasn’t reached the next stage as yet where all out fighting with guns with the public who are strong Trump supporters. That will come later if things continue as they are now.

              50

            • #
              Peter C

              Where we go one, we go all

              Q?

              10

        • #
          Richard Ilfeld

          incompetence & authoritarianism are the handmaidens of disaster.
          No matter how wise the dear leader, he or his minions will err on some point.

          The nature of authoritarianism is the errors are uncorrected, or compounded.

          The pilot induced oscillation soon runs the system out of control careening into
          social and economic failure.

          If things must be corrected with a revolution, or loss of a war,correction takes generations and millions die.

          All even modestly successful sytems have frequent statutory options for renewal; eliminating these options
          if a common feature of authoritarian regimes.

          One man, one vote, one time: common in leftist governments and labor unions. Eliminate or neuter elections.

          What does President-for-Life mean to you?

          In this context, that’s why you blow up the coal plants. You have to eliminate the obvious ways to fix things before
          the folks figure out that things need to be fixed.

          Not taking advantage of elections that still have sufficient authority to turn over control is probably the sign of a lost
          cause.

          What exactly is the difference between our leaders and President Maduro or Premier XI? If we tell them to leave, they will.

          Or will they?

          80

          • #
            Hanrahan

            If we tell them to leave, they will.

            Or will they?

            If the US is the new norm the answer is “No”.

            10

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          #21 belongs here.

          10

        • #
          Another Ian

          ROM

          “Mass Noun – A Stupidity of Congressmen”

          https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/08/01/mass-noun-a-stupidity-of-congressmen/

          Make that “parliamentarians” for more universal coverage

          20

        • #
          PeterS

          ROM what you say is true. Yes incompetence can be the root cause but if it goes on long enough as it has done with regards to Australian politics there also has to be an additional reason as to why it has been going on for so long. Either there is something sinister or the people are incompetent as well for being too slow to pick up on the issues. I tend to believe the latter. For example, the lengthy experience with Rudd and Gillard was enough evidence to show the public by and large were clueless, didn’t give a damn and/or were fools. The same applies now with regards to the LNP. As a consequence the only sensible and logical thing for intelligent voters who are awake is not to vote 1 for either party as they stand but place 1 against one of the anti-left minor parties, such as ACP or ON. Having said all that I do believe there are some sinister elements involved from outside but the people do have the final say in the matter if they so choose to make the right choice. After all we still live in a democracy albeit imperfect (as are all democracies).

          50

  • #
    PeterS

    Can anyone from the LNP please explain how all this is going to lead to lower power prices? Or more likley are they again treating the public as fools and we are going to see higher prices given the subsidies consumers pay for more renewables will keep increasing? If the government really is serious about reducing prices they have to scrap the subsidies immediately. Otherwise the government is conning us big time.

    141

    • #
      Hanrahan

      It’s a week since super Saturday and still crickets. If Turnbull doesn’t do something and sound convincing the libs will be wiped out in Qld.

      110

    • #
      el gordo

      Its be rumoured (h/t Pat) that Frydenberg is taking the NEG to the Labor states first, to get their approval before confronting the Coalition party room.

      No coal fired power stations?

      70

      • #
        PeterS

        They keep talking about creating a level playing field so that they can be built but they speak with forked tongues if they don’t also scrap the subsidies. They really painted themselves into a corner and it’s now time to end the nonsense.

        90

        • #
          el gordo

          If you want to get rid of the subsidies then we’ll need a good reason, backed by science and economics.

          Cory could do it but he won’t, so its up to the old school boys Barnaby and Tony to sort this mess out.

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      Binny

      The bigger and faster the crash, the quicker and higher the recovery bounce. The best strategy is to push for ‘All renewable right now’ shut down all coal plants. A week or two of blackout and riots should see a ‘political awakening’. The worst case is to drag this out over a number of years while the remaining coal plants decline. Because by the time the crunch comes it will take 2-3 years to build new plants.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Yes but they are dragging it out as long as they can and making only small changes along the way so the vast majority of the people don’t notice it (boiling frog syndrome – so called). That’s always been the plan. Sorry but it’s going to be a slow death not a quick one.

        80

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        Robdel

        I have been saying this for a while. Let us go all out for renewables to create the crisis as quickly as possible. Only when there is no stable continuous electricity supply will the plebs notice.

        40

  • #
    Kylie

    So wind is cheaper and you’re angry. ha!

    320

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Wind isnt cheaper but were realistic.

      We realize the country is being sabotaged, so we just keeping telling all our mates who are brickies and concreters and scientists , and normal people are rapidly waking up.

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      Kylie, there are many very knowledgable people here who will dismiss your claim out of hand. If you want to convince them of your argument you must actually make an argument, not simply make a bland, meaningless statement.

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    • #

      Kylie, what’s expensive, apart from subsidies direct and indirect, is the enormous amount of gas and diesel required to keep the renewables farce afloat. And please do note that both sides of the Arabian Peninsula are threatened with blockages in these ceaseless wars between Shiites and Sunnis, backed by their different allies. Suez, Bab el Mandeb and Hormuz may not be familiar or important to you now, but they will be in the event of increased tensions in the Gulf and Red Sea. You won’t be saying ha!.

      Renewables are not just an expensive toy that won’t do a grown-up job. They expose Australia to much greater oil dependence, which is why we need Federal legislation or strong disincentives to stop the use of imported diesel as mainstream power where effective domestic products are available. And no product is more effective and domestic than coal. Oil is the fast but deadly solution to the hopeless inadequacy and ridiculous cost of windpower. And our Green Betters, realising that gas is too long term with its own problems, are actually lobbying for that fast but deadly solution.

      180

    • #
      yarpos

      Thats right Kylie, and the wind is always blowing somwhere isnt it? I mean if its blowing in the wrong place you can just “send” it where its needed. Its all so simple , why dont they just get on with it?

      70

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      To all the above commentators.

      Not telling you something that you don’t already know, but……..

      Kylie is just a green-left fascist.

      Paid to troll.

      She can’t think. She can’t debate. She can’t do arithmetic.

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      • #

        Yeah. I like to think of a Kylie as a chirpy young Aussie dancing The Locomotion. But this Kylie is probably a seventy-year old sourpuss from Canberra doing GetUp! duties on the night shift.

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      • #
        James Murphy

        Paid to troll… while I don’t doubt the this happens in some way, at some level, I can’t help but think of these claims a bit like the “sceptics are all funded by by big oil”. Yes, that may happen in some way, at some level also, but I think on both ‘sides’, it would be the rare exception, not the norm. I am always happy to be proven wrong though.

        The chances are, that people like “Kylie” believe what they say, which, when they live in a world which defies the laws of physics, and deny the credible geological history of the planet, is in my view, far more disturbing than the implication that people get paid to promote certain views/ideas.

        41

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Yep, good point James.

          Would you accept: “receives gratuitous accolades from her green-left fascist comrades”, instead?

          10

  • #
    Hanrahan

    Are NSW generators doing an Enron, choking supply to raise prices?

    I’ve noticed that they always import power even mid-Sunday morning when demand is low. They seem to throttle back thermal power which, we know, is not being kind to the coal-fired generators.

    130

  • #
    Geoff

    “Windpower set to destroy Victorian baseload power just as it did in South Australia”

    Wrong

    “Our GOVERNMENT is set to destroy Victorian baseload power just as it did in South Australia”

    Correct

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  • #
    ROM

    From TJo’s headline post;

    “The government faces the absurd situation of extending subsidies from renewables sources to coal fired sources whose existence was supposed to fade away as cheap renewables took over.”

    And that is the situation now in England where huge subsidies are being paid to a whole bagfull of diesel generators of numerous generating capabilities which are prepared to act as a fast respones standby generators and which can come online in minutes as the wind drops off or the sun sets and more power is required .
    These stand by generators in England also include the Open Cycle Gas turbines which can hit full generating capacity in minutes [ SA's Gas turbine] but are relatively quite in-efficient fuel useage [ 45% versus 55% -60% or higher for the Closed Cycle Gas Turbines with their after burning heating of a steam boiler feeding a steam turbine for supplementary generating capacity but which takes a couple of hours to get up to full generating capbilities . Where as the Open Cycle Gas Turbine can hit full power in minutes.]

    The Scottish government is going full bonkers on renewable energy but have their asses covered by being able to pull power out of the English grid whenever their Scotttish scenery and amenities destroying wind turbines don’t deliver enough power which is quite often in their summer season and often over a number of days duration.

    Quoted from the” MIT Technology Review” May 2016;

    Sustainable Energy

    Germany Runs Up Against the Limits of Renewables

    At one point this month renewable energy sources briefly supplied close to 90 percent of the power on Germany’s electric grid. But that doesn’t mean the world’s fourth-largest economy is close to being run on zero-carbon electricity. In fact, Germany is giving the rest of the world a lesson in just how much can go wrong when you try to reduce carbon emissions solely by installing lots of wind and solar.

    After years of declines, Germany’s carbon emissions rose slightly in 2015, largely because the country produces much more electricity than it needs. That’s happening because even if there are times when renewables can supply nearly all of the electricity on the grid, the variability of those sources forces Germany to keep other power plants running. And in Germany, which is phasing out its nuclear plants, those other plants primarily burn dirty coal.

    Now the government is about to reboot its energy strategy, known as the Energiewende. It was launched in 2010 in hopes of dramatically increasing the share of the country’s electricity that comes from renewable energy and slashing the country’s overall carbon emissions to 40 percent below 1990 levels by 2020 (see “The Great German Energy Experiment”). What happens next will be critical not only for Germany, but also for other countries trying to learn how to best bring more wind and solar online—especially if they want to do it without relying on nuclear power.
    …….
    However, an expert commission appointed by the country’s minister of economy and energy has said the 40 percent target probably won’t be reached by 2020. And the energy revolution has caused problems of its own. Because fossil-fuel power plants cannot easily ramp down generation in response to excess supply on the grid, on sunny, windy days there is sometimes so much power in the system that the price goes negative—in other words, operators of large plants, most of which run on coal or natural gas, must pay commercial customers to consume electricity. That situation has also arisen recently in Texas and California (see “Texas and California Have Too Much Renewable Energy”) when the generation of solar power has maxed out.

    Texas has run into a similar problem with its huge number of wind turbines and solar farms.
    And both of these entities have a number of outlets for excess energy being generated by renewable energy installations just over their borders in the surrounding nations and states.
    Whereas Victoria has NSW at best as an outlet for excess power or maybe tasmania can take a small excess ofpower if its own turbine farms aren’t producing at the maximum.

    It seems as has been expressed in numerous of the more engineering literate publications that when a grid reaches over 30% of its power needs from renewable energy, the law of decreasing returns comes into effect fairly quickly as the innumerable problems with control of the grid frequency, the economics or growing lack of economics for maintaining major standby systems, the ever growing political repercussions as prices of power just keep on keeping on going up in line with renewable enegy penetration statistics , plus grid extensions, all heavy duty and very costly to take the rare full generating capacity of each wind farm, all off these factors are multiplie by many factors as the percentage of renewable power is increased over the roughly 30% level of the grids normal power supply.

    As you can read in the quote above and thats from 2 years ago and the German renewable power situation and prices of power have got considerably worse since then according to Germany’s own power responsible politicians with a growing public revolt against renewable energy and the no longer sustainable prices of power all come into play, Germany doesn’t even believe any more that it will exceed the 40% level for renewable energy production.

    Of course it has to be remembered that the German onshore turbines, all 29000 of them, have an average and unbelievable poor real time generating capacity of only 18% of their claim and plated capacity .

    In Victoria the capacity factor at this stage is around 30% . But this is usual with newly installed farms in a new province as the early birds get the best and windiest spots and after that the generating capacity begins to fall off with the growing number of turbines as the best and windiest spots are already occupied by turbines.
    Plus of course the 3% or more reduction in generating capacity each year for each turbine as the blades and gears and electrical componernts all age and become less efficient.

    ———
    The only comment I can make after reading and watching and reading again on renewable energy over the last decade is that the politicians have to be stark staring raving mad as well as grossly and perhaps even deliberately ignorant as all the relevant information both good and bad on renewable energy is all out there with nothing but a bit of googling required to have access to this information.

    In short it aalmost appears that the politicians are grossly ignorant, do not want to nknow the real situation and truth of what happens when you force renewable enetrgy onto a nation and its people and are completely bigoted against the interrests of the Australian public to try and forcibly foist renewable energy as the main generating system onto the Australian public.

    Not that I can find anything very good about renewable energy in any case, it doesn’t even reduce CO2 from a number of research results, once the fantasicm and feel good factors are stripped out of the core information that is so readily available in the public sphere..

    Rnewable energy alone cannot run, can never run an industreilised nation including the smelting of metals, the production of innumerable materials, chemicals and products and processes that all rely on a dead steady continious supply of power to be able to process the metals and products and chemicals and etc.
    ———————

    So what is going wrong with our politicians and the advisers to those politicians that they seem so hell bent on forcing renewable energy nto the australian public regardless of the consequences both social and economic as well as the potential destruction of our entire industrial base due to both non availability of supply and / or its constant variations and fluctuations and oscillations..

    [ The english have just faced this problem being ten years in front of us and have now given the go ahead for at least one major nclear plant to be built plus the possibility of another couple nuclear generators to give guaranteed supply of power into the future.
    Plus of course the just licensed the Cuadrilla company to go a ahead with frakking for gas and maybe oil to try and guarantee England's future energy supplies. ]

    Maybe and as I have intimated previously on Jo’s forum, our troubles lie in these statistics, courtesy of Fairfax media;;

    Nearly half of all Liberal MPs in the federal parliament are former political staffers, party officials or government advisers, a steep increase since before the last election.

    Analysis by Fairfax Media shows 49 per cent of Liberal MPs have worked in state and federal politics before being elected, up from 36 per cent in the 44th Parliament.

    Inside the Labor caucus, 55 per cent of MPs have previously worked as staffers, electorate officers or advisers before being elected, while 40 per cent have previously worked in roles within the trade union movement.

    Before 2016 election, 42 per cent of cabinet ministers had been employed as staffers and party officials. In the current Turnbull government cabinet, that number has risen to more than 50 per cent.
    Opposition Leader Bill Shorten’s frontbench includes 40 per cent former trade union officials.

    Before the election, 13 per cent of Nationals MPs were former staffers or ministerial advisers, rising to 18 per cent in the 45th Parliament.

    The number of female Liberal MPs dropped to its lowest number in 25 years in 2016, with just 13 women sitting on the government benches in the House of Representatives.

    Melbourne University principal fellow Nicholas Reece said elected representatives should have a diverse range of backgrounds, and the increasing proportion of career politicians has helped fuel voter anger at politics around the world.

    “The fact that Ben Chifley was a train driver who became a magnificent post-war prime minister and Pauline Hanson was a fish and chip shop owner are both examples of people with everyday backgrounds that can be highly appealing to the electorate,” he said.

    “These high numbers do reinforce this insiders and outsiders cleavage in Australian politics, which we know people are expressing their frustration with in spectacular fashion in events like the election of Donald Trump.”

    Ref above; Australia’s career political class: Rising number of Australian MPs are former staffers and ministerial advisersaustralian Parliements
    So where are the trained engineers, the trained technicians, the guys and gals who have created and run businesses and industrial enterprises and know and have a good understanding of the technical and economic and even societal problems and the needs of an industrialised society.

    These people simply don’t seem to exist in Australia’s parliementary system. Possibly beach-uase they are regarded as an inferiorcaste by the poowahs of the political class.

    Instead here in Austrsalia we seem to be lumbered with a whole bunch of technically illiterate, politically inbred bigoted against their own voters and total f—-ts who don’t seem to have a clue as to what are the absolutes and basic requirements needed to run a modern industrialised nation and cater for the needs of its people and who apparently have no intentions of doing anything to educate themselves on this subject preferring ideology over practicallity regardless of the suffering caused by their inherent collective stupidity.

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      PeterS

      In case you haven’t noticed the two major parties have been taken over by lunatics, first the ALP a long time ago and more recently the LNP. Some of the people are only just now noticing it but most are still asleep, too buys doing other things or just don’t give a damn. Eventually though they too will notice once things go pear shaped.

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      • #
        Dennis

        During 2006 after Kevin07 became Leader of Union Labor Party journalist Max Walsh wrote in The Bulletin about the effective “corporate style takeover” by the Union Movement of the Australian Labor Party. Of course the ALP has always been the political voice of unions but now they control it.

        He wrote that union trained executives had replaced Labor MPs in safe seats (eg Bill Shorten) and the primary objective was to control and manipulate the governments of Australia.

        Around the same period a Malcolm Turnbull was planning how to take control of the Australian Liberal Party, he needed a safe Liberal seat and lived in one, so he stacked branches with supporters and gained preselection as candidate, replacing sitting MP Peter King in Wentworth.

        71

      • #
        el gordo

        I was talking to a local man yesterday who said he always voted Labor, but doesn’t now because its the not the Party it once was. Both majors have been infiltrated by green slime for the greater good.

        He was relieved to discover that I’m a member of the Denialati, its a social minefield and we don’t know who to trust. Out our way (west of the Blue Mountains) the drought is ferocious and you get frowns for saying its a nice day, so one has to be permanently on guard.

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        • #
          PeterS

          As we all know farmers are targeted to be eliminated by the Greenies. Fortunately the Greens have been losing support. Unfortunately the Green lunacy has rubbed off onto the two major parties. So we are worse off than ever before despite the Greens being almost out of the picture. In effect Australian mainstream politics is now Green by nature not by name.

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      Australia’s career political class: Rising number of Australian MPs are former staffers and ministerial advisers

      Not as bad as Washington so does that make them the “shallow state”?

      The US prolly has the strongest constitution in the world but they were within a whisker of being sunk in the swamp until the Trumpster saved them. I see no indication that Australia has taken the slightest notice.

      The Islamification of the UK, exemplified by the terrible treatment of Tommy Robinson, also goes unnoticed.

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    • #
      GrahamP

      “Open Cycle Gas turbines which can hit full generating capacity in minutes”

      From what I recall from reading the specifications (can’t remember which company but might have been GE) the above statement is only true if the turbines are “hot”. A cold start takes about 20 minutes.

      As I am only relying on memory I could well have this wrong so don’t take it as gospel. Graham

      50

      • #

        It’s an interesting thing to watch really, as you can best see these OCGT’s ‘do their thing’ when one of those large coal fired Units has an unscheduled fall back to zero.

        As soon as the big Unit fails, probably a few minutes before it happens, the plant’s operator is on line to the AEMO, warning them of the impending shutdown.

        Immediately, the ‘regulator’ is on the blower to other plants to come on line to fill the loss.

        Those OCGT’s would fire up immediately, but what comes into play at the very first is the pumped hydro Units, at Tumut 3. Sometimes three of them will come on line, and they can be delivering their power in literally minutes. They also use some of the Units at Murray One and Two, and sometimes even Shoalhaven, depending on the State where the drop out occurs.

        Then, while those OCGT’s are coming up to speed, they begin to come on line.

        Then, as is usually the case, one, and sometimes two of those pumped hydro Units will almost immediately go straight back off line so all you see on the hydro graph, is a short term spike of power about two Units worth, and then back to just the one Unit in operation.

        By then, those OCGT’s are usually up and running at their full whack power delivery.

        It all happens so fast, with the big coal fired Unit failing, and then immediately covered by those hydro and OCGT’s.

        So quickly in fact, that no one would even notice there has been one of those big Units dropping off line.

        Tony.

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  • #
    pat

    virtue-signalling gets religion:

    3 Aug: BBC: Thousands of UK churches convert to renewable energy
    More than 5,500 churches across the UK, including several famous cathedrals, have converted to renewable power to help combat climate change.
    The Church of England warned the issue was “one of the great moral challenges of our time”.
    It said thousands of Christian and non-Anglican places of worship were now using 100% renewable electricity.
    Salisbury, Southwark, Liverpool and St Albans cathedrals are among 15 to have signed up to green electricity tariffs.

    With an average annual church electricity bill of around £1,000, it is estimated British churches have diverted more than £5m from fossil fuels to clean energy providers…
    Other churches have made the move through the Big Church Switch campaign run by Christian charities Christian Aid and Tearfund and the Church of England’s Environment Programme…

    Bishop of Salisbury Nicholas Holtam, the Church of England’s lead bishop on the environment, described climate change as “an enormous injustice” which “hurts the poor first and worst”.
    “It’s fantastic to see churches doing their bit to ensure they reduce their impact on the environment. They are also giving a boost to clean energy, which is essential to reduce harmful carbon emissions,” he said.
    “Switching to responsible sources of electricity may seem like a small thing on its own, but when joined together it can make a real difference.”

    Former Archbishop of Canterbury and chairman of Christian Aid, Dr Rowan Williams, urged the government to set a target to cut UK emissions to zero overall by 2050 to ensure Britain “remains a green and pleasant land at home and a climate leader abroad”.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45047544

    ***BBC omitted a bit of the Williams’ quote:

    3 Aug: Guardian: Press Association: Rowan Williams, the former archbishop of Canterbury and the chair of Christian Aid, said the Church of England had agreed to sell its shares in fossil fuel companies not on track to meet the aims of the Paris agreement on tackling climate change.
    ***“Churches are part of a global network and so are often very aware of the plight of our brothers and sisters suffering from droughts, floods and extreme weather around the world,” he said…

    50

    • #
      Annie

      What a load of pious tosh…some church ‘leaders’! It makes me really angry, upset and ashamed to be an Anglican. This nonsense makes the poor poorer…those clerics are too stup1d to see it, or don’t want to because they want to be seen as greenly virtuous…pukey.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        When the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the ditch….

        Get out now while there us time, you wont look back. If it doesnt preach the Gospel in its * entirety* , its not a Christian church. Period.

        60

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Not so easy for some Steve.

          I agree that too many churches are there for the Elites who thrive on the “politics” of the church and don’t, can’t or won’t see the real purpose which is to give direction, support and community to people.

          The churches green virtue signalling tells me that the leaders are not real leaders but followers who have jumped on the latest band wagon.
          By doing that they are able to avoid doing the hard work needed to identify problems being faced by their flock and find solutions that are meaningful.

          KK

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        • #
          Annie

          Too general a statement OS. There are some sensible people within the Anglican church who aren’t conned by the green religion and who do preach the Gospel. They need to stick it out though I can understand why offshoots from the main churches occur.

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          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Well, Annie, if that’s the case they need to speak out. Loudly.

            Christmas two years ago I attended a Christmas morning service at an Anglican church in a little coastal community east of Canberra. The Deacon (a woman; so well done there at least) read out Bishop Browning’s pastoral letter to the congregation. It was full of climate change lies and imploring “true” Christians to accept that the world was in mortal danger due to CO2 etc. The Right Reverend was clearly a right Molly Maguire.

            Leaving aside virgin births and resurrections of the body, such deceit and misdirection I’ve never seen or heard before in a church of God. And I will never hear it again, because I’ll never attend another service.

            22

            • #
              KinkyKeith

              Sam

              Yes, in regards to your last paragraph it’s time that the church worked on bringing the message up to date.
              KK

              22

            • #
              Annie

              Totally understandable Sceptical Sam. I’d do likewise if that’s all I’d ever encountered. You may have missed that my husband, an Anglican vicar, copped some shocking flack in mid-April because he dared to speak out in his sermon about how people are being misled about so-called ACAGW/CC. A very rude woman put her hands over her eyes and then stood up, still with her hands over her ears for the rest of his sermon. She still has the brass neck to turn up, smiling smugly and acting all piously…yuk. One young family who witnessed this display of appalling manners have not been back since. Another woman, friend of the first one, wrote the most horrible letter he has ever received. My husband, not only a priest but also a trained electrical and electronic engineer who does use his brain, did speak out about all the l1es and received terrible flack in return. A good half of our congregation do actually think like we do. Most but not all of the clergy and lay people have swallowed the new religion. Those of us who have not are having a very difficult time. This is what we get for speaking out.
              There are not only feral clergy but there are also some very feral so-called Christians. One of my friends was so downed by the attacks on her husband (they were sceptics too, both have since died) that she once declared ‘Christians! I’m going to be a Buddhist instead’.

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              • #
                Annie

                CAGW…fumble fingers there…

                30

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Hi Annie,

                Yes. I’d read your experience in a previous post of yours on this issue.

                Green-left fascists (zealots) exist in most communities. It was the church’s zealots that put the “heretics” to death. It’s the same evil.

                I don’t recall Christ acting in that way. Malchus was the beneficiary of that wisdom.

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              • #
                Annie

                Indeed he didn’t. As you say, Malchus was the beneficiary. On the other hand he drove the greedy money-making sellers out of the temple when they were fleecing the poor and also called Herod ‘that fox’. He wasn’t wishy-washy.

                10

              • #
                Annie

                And ‘ears’, not ‘eyes’…

                10

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                I saw that. :-)

                10

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Annie, its time to get out I think. Clearly its a sinking ship, and I do feel for you and your husbands situation, but in some ways its no different to any group of people professing to follow Christ but instead embrace alternate beliefs while staying within the label of Anglican. I have had many discussions with other friends who have been ostracized within even more stringent ( allegedly ) Bible believing churches, because they dare to closely follow Christs teachings – go figure.

                Even back in the days of the early church this issue existed :

                “You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[c]”
                ( Galatians 3 )

                10

              • #
                Annie

                No Steve…some have to stay put to try to change it from within.

                20

    • #
      Curious George

      It may be a great moral challenge. It is a great mental challenge.

      30

      • #
        PeterS

        Mainstream politicians are mentally challenged so the great mental challenge is already lost. The only way we can reverse things is to get rid of both major parties. Of course that’s very hard to do given so many voters are also mentally challenged.

        10

        • #
          el gordo

          Brainwashed by sophisticated propaganda, not mentally challenged, there is a subtle difference.

          41

          • #
            PeterS

            We are not computers where GIGO applies. Humans have the ability to come to an appropriate decision using logic, reason as well as common sense regardless of the propaganda. During the reign of Soviet Russia when propaganda was supreme the people as a whole rejected it and knew it was all BS. If they had a democracy like ours the Soviet party would not survive one day. When Soviet Russia finally fell the people were much happier although not ideal. The evidence so far is Australians don’t have that sort of zeal to reject the two major parties to show their disgust of how things are going. Things might change though if the pain is strong enough. So perhaps instead of calling them mentally challenged they are simply ignorant, at least the ones that would prefer a better way. I will not however retract the mentally challenged attribute from those who openly support the Greens and communism in general.

            10

  • #
    pat

    and banking…

    2 Aug: BusinessGreen: Lloyds Banking Group halts financing for new coal plants
    Banking giant will no longer finance coal-fired power stations or thermal coal mines in support of Paris Agreement goals…
    The bank said its new policy means that although it will continue to work with existing clients whose operations include coal mining or power generated from coal, or supply equipment or services to these sectors, it will not finance any new projects in this area…

    Clients already operating coal power stations must demonstrate monitoring of greenhouse gases, or compliance with applicable emissions regulations, Lloyds added…
    David Oldfield, group director of commercial banking at Lloyds, said cutting the use of coal for energy is essential for meeting the goals of the Paris Agreement, the global agreement to avoid dangerous global warming. “We are already committed to supporting businesses that are leading the way by investing in renewable energy and a cleaner future, including those that are diversifying their business models away from fossil fuels,” he said. “This announcement reiterates our commitment to support the transition.”…

    The policy follows the launch earlier this year of a £2bn Clean Growth Finance Initiative (LINK), providing businesses with discounted lending to help them invest in measures that curb environmental impacts and boost productivity.
    Lloyds Banking Group has also teamed up with the University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership to provide specialist training to more than 300 relationship managers to help them support clients’ shift to more sustainable business practices, with 100 relationship managers trained so far, it said.
    https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/3036968/lloyds-banking-group-to-stop-financing-new-coal-plants-and-mining-projects

    14 May: Business Green: James Murray: ‘Clean Growth Finance’: Lloyds Bank launches £2bn green business lending drive
    Bank kicks off major new programme to provide discounted lending to help businesses invest in green upgrades.
    The battle between High Street banks to seize a share of the growing green investment market will step up a gear today, with news Lloyds Banking Group is to launch a major new £2bn Clean Growth Finance initiative for business clients…
    The bank said the scheme takes the bank’s total green investment commitments to £3bn following previous pledges to invest up to £1bn in commercial real estate energy efficiency upgrades and renewables projects by 2020…

    “Businesses will continue to be a source of innovation and seize the opportunities presented by the global low carbon economy,” said David Oldfield, group director commercial banking, in a statement. “Our funding will support small improvements in production, heating, transport, or environmental impact, right through to large scale renewable energy infrastructure. By building on our commitments to help clients with discounted finance for investments in sustainable business, we will in turn support the UK’s goals for clean growth.”…

    NatWest launched a major new business-focused energy efficiency programme last year and recently announced that it has invested over £3.5bn in renewables and efficiency projects over the past three years…
    Meanwhile, Barclays has launched a flurry of new green finance products in recent months, including its first green mortgage and new green trade loans.
    In other green investment news, a report late last week from the Centre for Climate Finance & Investment at Imperial College Business School has further underlined the attractiveness of low carbon investments.
    The study looked at returns from UK Yieldcos invested in operational renewable energy assets and found they are consistently outperforming their US equivalents.

    Over the three-year period covered by the study UK Yieldcos delivered an annualised total return of 8.09 per cent – a performance that is comparable to the FTSE All-Share Index returns of 8.23 per cent, but which was achieved with much lower levels of volatility…

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  • #
    pat

    naughty NPower:

    2 Aug: YourMoney: Npower fined £2.4m over missed smart meter deadline
    by Paloma Kubiak
    Npower is to pay £2.4m for failing to install advanced smart meters by deadline, which meant customers “lost out”, according to the regulator, Ofgem…
    The energy giant was required to install around 22,400 advanced electricity meters to medium-sized business customers by 6 April 2014.
    But it only managed to install the advanced meters at 15,200 of these meter points by deadline…

    Npower was also found to have breached a second licence condition, as between October 2009 and November 2015, it replaced almost 200 electricity meters at relevant business premises with non-advanced meters.
    Ofgem did seek to fine Npower £3.7m but it contested this, and a fine of £2.4m has been imposed instead.
    Rob Salter-Church, Ofgem interim executive director for consumers and markets, said: “Npower is paying the price for failing to meet its obligations and letting down its business customers.
    “The government set a clear deadline for suppliers to ensure no business customers unnecessarily missed out on the benefits of advanced meters, including the opportunity to save money on their bills. The fine reflects that there were systemic failings by Npower which led to the serious failure of not meeting the deadline.

    “Suppliers must learn their lesson to make sure mistakes like this are not repeated in the roll-out of smart meters.”…
    http://www.yourmoney.com/household-bills/npower-fined-2-4m-missed-smart-meter-deadline/

    behind paywall:

    3 Aug: UK Times: Rising energy costs likely to lift price cap for poor households
    by Emily Gosden
    The energy regulator is likely to have to increase its cap on prices for vulnerable households by about £50 a year, analysts have forecast.
    Five million households are likely to see their bills rise as suppliers are expected to increase their tariffs to the maximum allowed.

    Ofgem, which has already raised the cap by £57 a year in April, is due to update its level on Tuesday. It is understood to be preparing to announce another increase because of rising wholesale gas and electricity costs.
    Such a move would be politically awkward as the government prepares to introduce a similar cap for a further 11 million households under a policy Theresa May claimed would prevent “sudden and unexpected and significant hikes in prices”…

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    pat

    3 Aug: WGME: State watchdog questions CMP’s smart meter claims
    PORTLAND — Central Maine Power says it’s taking steps to improve its smart meter network, following the powerful October wind storm.
    Now, two state officials tell the I-Team that the company is trying to change the facts of what happened during the storm.
    As the October wind storm swept through the state, it knocked out power to more than 450,000 CMP customers, the largest outage on record.

    The company says 97 percent of customers had power back in less than a week.
    “We’re really proud of that response, and part of that was possible because of the smart meter system,” spokesperson Gail Rice said.

    In a press release this week, CMP says it’s working to make its smart meter network even better, ***by adding things like back-up generators to key devices.
    But in that same press release, CEO Doug Herling said, “At the height of the October wind and rain storm, the smart meter system gave us excellent data on the scope of damage.”…
    The report was submitted to a legislative committee, chaired by Representative Seth Berry.
    “Once again we see why we cannot trust Central Maine Power, it’s very hard for the Maine public to trust them when their story changes every five minutes,” Berry said.

    ***In a December interview with Maine Public, a company spokesman said the system crashed.
    “It just sort of flatlined,” spokesperson John Carroll said. “It stopped climbing and it was pretty clear we weren’t getting any more information from it”…

    Critics, including Hobbins and Berry, say the crash caused confusion and delayed repairs…
    CMP says it expects the system upgrades to make a big difference during major storms.
    https://wgme.com/news/i-team/state-watchdog-questions-cmps-smart-meter-claims

    3 Aug: KWWL: Customer looks for answers after receiving $800 electric bill
    by Collin Dorsey
    DUBUQUE (KWWL) –
    Tammy Beasley got the surprise of her life when she received a bill from Alliant Energy totaling nearly $820.
    Her previous electric bills have averaged about $200, with the previous coming in at $224.
    She said they’ve checked everything, even hiring private electricians to inspect the home they’ve only lived in for a year . She even has the bills from the home’s previous owner. None of them showing a usage near what Alliant claims Beasley used during a billing cycle from June 13 to July 13.

    Alliant claims the Beasley’s used nearly 4,800kWh of electricity during the billing cycle. The U.S. Energy Information Administration shows the average U.S. household only uses about 900 kWh per month.
    At one point they shut off everything at the electric panel.
    “Our big hitters were completely shut down and they were still clocking and they didn’t find anything,” she said, “Even the local Alliant guy came and did his test and can’t find anything.”

    She then took to Facebook. She posted her dilemma to find dozens of others had a similar story, even with other electric companies. Some of their bills amounting to thousands of dollars. All racked up in just one month.

    We reached out to Alliant Energy for comment. They said all of their equipment is tested in small batches before being installed, so it is functioning properly.
    “We don’t install them if they aren’t recording accurately,” said Alliant Spokesperson Mike Wagner, “For customers who are concerned about their smart meters, our message is to them is that they’re accurately recording their energy use.”…

    Beasley said she has lodged a complaint with the Iowa Utility Board. The IUB regulates utility providers in the state of Iowa…
    http://www.kwwl.com/story/38802009/2018/08/Thursday/customer-looks-for-answers-after-receiving-800-electric-bill

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    pat

    2 Aug: Reuters: Green Climate Fund needs political push to solve woes – UN climate chief
    by Megan Rowling
    The Green Climate Fund has been beset by arguments between rich and poor nations about how and where to invest the $10.3 billion pledged by wealthy governments.
    The Green Climate Fund, set up to channel billions of dollars to help developing nations tackle climate change, must operate more efficiently, with greater political attention needed to make that happen, the United Nations’ climate chief said on Thursday.
    The fund’s July board meeting at its South Korean base – which ended in disarray after its executive director resigned and the board failed to reach key decisions – was “a cause of concern”, Patricia Espinosa said in an interview.
    “We need to overcome… the obstacles that did not allow the board to deliver on the very important work it had to conclude,” she told the Thomson Reuters Foundation.

    The fund is independent, although it was established by the U.N. climate talks as a key vehicle for climate finance.
    Espinosa said she did not have a specific formula or suggestions for its reform.
    “What I think is indispensable is to get a higher level of attention, a political level of attention, to make this institution work,” she said, urging finance ministries to get involved in the discussions…

    The fund’s deputy executive director, Javier Manzanares, said on Wednesday the last board meeting had been “somewhat of a setback”.
    “But GCF still has a huge role to play, and we are already delivering,” he told Pacific government officials in Micronesia…
    Observers have suggested reducing the number of GCF board members – now 24 – and devolving to its secretariat decisions on which projects should be funded…

    Should the fund not advance on those issues before the next annual U.N. climate conference in December, where countries are due to agree guidelines to implement the Paris Agreement, “it will impact on the general atmosphere”, (Espinosa) said.
    Assuring developing states they will get the climate change funding they need to reduce emissions and adapt to more extreme weather and rising seas in line with their national plans “is a very central element” of the Paris pact, said Espinosa…
    Rich governments have promised to mobilise $100 billion per year in climate finance for vulnerable countries by 2020, but have not set out a clear pathway to reach that goal…

    Espinosa said the negative messages from the Trump administration on the U.N. climate change process, and its unwillingness to contribute money, were an element “that is not sending the signals to build up the trust that we need”.
    But other countries had stayed committed to the global accord because it was in their own interests, she said.
    “It’s a question of how valuable is this agreement for the future of humanity,” she said.
    http://news.trust.org/item/20180802163738-hqgvx/

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    pat

    2 Aug: Reuters: U.S. states vow to fight Trump rollback on auto emissions
    by Joseph White, David Shepardson; Additional reporting by Timothy Gardner, Jonathan Stempel and Nichola Groom
    California and 18 other U.S. states promised on Thursday to fight a Trump administration proposal to weaken fuel efficiency standards for cars and trucks and force states into line, arguing the United States has an obligation to protect the environment for future generations.

    The administration billed the proposed rollback from Obama-era fuel efficiency standards as a way to help car companies and lower vehicle prices for consumers, but critics said the plan would accelerate climate change and increase fuel prices…
    The proposal from the U.S. Transportation Department and Environmental Protection Agency would freeze fuel efficiency standards at 2020 levels through 2026, and require dramatically fewer electric vehicles as more people continue to drive gasoline-powered vehicles.
    The administration said the freeze would boost U.S. oil consumption by about 500,000 barrels of oil a day by the 2030s, and argued it would prevent up to 1,000 traffic fatalities per year by reducing the price of new vehicles and so prompting people to buy newer, safer vehicles more quickly…

    The Transportation Department says the proposal would shrink regulatory costs for automakers by $319 billion through 2029, reducing by more than $60 billion what General Motors Co (GM.N), Ford Motor Co (F.N) and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV (FCHA.MI) each would have been expected to spend to comply with the Obama-era rules. Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) would save $34 billion and Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE) $20 billion…

    The administration also contends that hiking U.S. oil consumption by 2 to 3 percent over forecast levels would have a minimal impact on the environment, boosting global average temperature by just “3/1000th of a degree Celsius by 2100.” …

    “California will fight this stupidity in every conceivable way possible,” Governor Edmund “Jerry” Brown, a Democrat, said in a statement…
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-emissions/white-house-proposes-weaker-auto-emissions-rules-overriding-california-idUSKBN1KN1AD

    2 Aug: AP: Trump proposes car-mileage rollback; states sue in protest
    By ELLEN KNICKMEYER and TOM KRISHER
    According to Trump administration estimates, the Obama fuel efficiency standards would raise the price of vehicles by an average of $2,340. That would price many buyers out of the new-vehicle market, forcing them to drive older, less-safe vehicles that pollute more, the administration says…

    In 2012, when the standards were first adopted, cars were about 50 percent of new-vehicle sales. Now they’re only about one-third, with less-efficient trucks and SUVS making up the rest.
    https://www.apnews.com/152b4466881646268a08a02bb1d5d8ef/Trump-proposes-car-mileage-rollback;-states-sue-in-protest

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    pat

    CAGW-infested MSM round-up for teens, all leading to the ***anti-Republican para near the end:

    2 Aug: Teen Vogue: California Wildfires Are Proof of Climate Change, According to Governor Jerry Brown
    “We’re in for a really rough ride.”
    by Lauren Young
    Nearly two weeks ago, a rim-riding trailer’s flat tire scraping against the highway sparked a wildfire in the brush near Carr Powerhouse Road in Shasta County, California, according to The Redding Record Searchlight. Since then, as The Los Angeles Times reported, the resulting blaze had scorched 121,000 acres, destroyed 1,564 buildings, killed six, and scourged the city of Redding and the surrounding area, a little over 200 miles north of San Francisco…

    It’s devastation that California governor Jerry Brown says climate change has made “part of our ordinary experience,” as reported by NPR (LINK). The Carr Fire is one of 18 active wildfires burning across the state, according to Time. All together the land consumed by these fires covers an area the size of Los Angeles, according to CNN. NPR reported that, according to Brown, California has already spent $125 million, or a quarter of its fire budget, a month into the fiscal year.

    “[The] predictions that I see, the more serious predictions of warming and fires to occur later in the century, 2040, or 2050, they’re now occurring in real time,” Brown said on Wednesday at a news conference in Sacramento. “We’re in for a really rough ride,” he added. “It’s going to get expensive, it’s going to get dangerous and we have to apply all of our creativity to make the best of what’s going to be an increasingly bad situation.”…

    NPR also reported (LINK) that three states — California, Oregon, and Montana — have all documented heat records this summer…
    The World Meteorological Organization describes 2018’s summer as an “unusually hot and dry” in the northern hemisphere…
    Elsewhere in Europe, the United Kingdom, Spain, and Portugal are preparing for record-high temperatures, according to The Telegraph…

    As NPR noted (LINK), these scorching weather patterns are consistent with scientific evidence that indicates the world is getting warmer. Those increased temperatures can lead to more extreme weather events, such as more fires of greater intensity and a longer fire season each year…
    More intense fires bring their own climate risks. CNN reported that the Carr Fire is so hot, it has created its own weather system…

    ***While a majority of registered voters agree that climate change is caused mostly by humans, Republicans have been slow to acknowledge that climate change is happening and that people must take responsibility for their effects on the planet. But young people are on track to change that. A May 2018 Gallup poll shows that 70% of younger Americans worry about global warming, compared to 56% of Americans 55 and older…
    https://www.teenvogue.com/story/california-wildfires-proof-of-climate-change-governor-jerry-brown

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    pat

    1 Aug: Albany Times-Union: GE engineer charged with stealing turbine technology
    Xiaoqing Zheng accused of using trade secrets to benefit his interest in Chinese companies
    By Brendan J. Lyons and Steve Hughes
    NISKAYUNA — An engineer employed by General Electric Co. was arrested by the FBI on Wednesday and charged with using sophisticated techniques to steal digital files on the company’s turbine technology to benefit his interest in Chinese companies that compete with GE…

    Prosecutors, in a statement, said that Zheng “used an elaborate and sophisticated means to remove electronic files containing GE’s trade secrets involving its turbine technologies. … Zheng is alleged to have used (encrypted technology) to hide data files belonging to GE into an innocuous looking digital picture of a sunset, and then to have emailed the digital picture, which contained the stolen GE data files, to Zheng’s (private) email account.”

    Prosecutors said the single criminal count filed against Zheng — theft of trade secrets — relates to an incident that took place on July 5 when he moved 40 encrypted files to a digital folder on his laptop. But the federal complaint indicates Zheng is also suspected of stealing the data files “on multiple occasions” dating back years.

    The federal criminal complaint says that in 2014, Zheng “downloaded more than 19,000 files from GE’s computer network onto an external storage device, believed by GE investigators to have been a personal thumb drive.”
    Federal authorities said that Zheng is a U.S. citizen and also holds citizenship in China. He was hired by GE in 2008 and holds degrees in aero engineering from Northwestern Polytechnic University and Massachusetts Institute of Technology…

    Zheng previously told GE officials that he and his brothers own a technology company in Nanjing, China, that supplies parts for civil aviation engines, according to the federal complaint…
    But federal investigators said they found that Zheng had an interest in multiple aviation technology companies in China — including some funded by the government — and that it appeared he was working on projects for those companies similar to the proprietary work that he does for GE.
    The complaint indicates that GE officials have been aware of Zheng’s suspicious activities for years but took no serious action…

    Following his arrest, Zheng allegedly admitted to FBI agents that he had stolen GE materials between five and 10 times and that he knew it was unlawful to do so. He also told the agents that his companies in China are not yet profitable but that they had received grant money from the Chinese government…
    A LinkedIn page for a Xiaoqing Zheng states that he holds 29 patents…
    https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/FBI-searching-house-in-Niskayuna-13122464.php

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    pat

    2 Aug: Bloomberg: World Reaches 1,000GW of Wind and Solar, Keeps Going
    Bloomberg NEF data indicate that the world has attained the landmark figure of 1TW of wind and solar generation capacity installed. We estimate that the second terawatt of wind and solar will arrive by mid-2023 and cost 46% less than the first.

    New output from the BNEF database shows that there were 1,013GW of wind and solar PV generating capacity installed worldwide as of June 30, 2018. The 1TW milestone would have been passed sometime just before this date. The total is finely balanced between wind (54%) and solar (46%)…
    Total installed capacity has grown 65-fold since the year 2000, and more than quadrupled since 2010…

    Even more striking is the growth of solar PV alone. As recently as 2007, there was just 8GW of PV capacity installed, compared with 89GW of wind. Since then, PV has grown from just 8% of total installed wind and solar capacity, to 46%. In the process, PV installations grew 57-fold, with utility-scale PV overtaking small-scale PV in 2014. Wind still represents the majority of the installed base at 54%, but is likely to relinquish this lead soon…

    We estimate that the first 1TW of wind and solar required approximately $2.3 trillion of capital expenditure to deploy. The second terawatt will cost significantly less than the first. Based on estimates from our New Energy Outlook 2018, capital expenditures on wind and solar generation will total about $1.23 trillion from 2018 to 2022 inclusive…
    If we were to include all other renewables, including hydropower, the total would already exceed 2TW, with the 1TW mark attained about a decade ago. Most of the growth in the intervening period can be attributed to wind and solar…

    Did we forecast it right?…READ ON
    https://about.bnef.com/blog/world-reaches-1000gw-wind-solar-keeps-going/

    behind paywall:

    2 Aug: Economist: India shows how hard it is to move beyond fossil fuels
    A renewable-energy revolution is neither imminent nor pain-free

    1 Aug: Economist: In the line of fire
    The world is losing the war against climate change
    Rising energy demand means use of fossil fuels is heading in the wrong direction

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    KinkyKeith

    Yes, now I can put a name to the face.

    President Malice Trumble.

    KK

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      Dennis

      Chairman Mal

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      Another Ian

      KK

      If he keeps this (and other things) going it will be Never-president Malice Tumble

      Some other things

      “Great Barrier Reef Foundation supports Turnbull’s position on Paris Agreement ”

      “Turnbull was outright evasive about probity concerns on Barrier Reef $.5BN foundation grant”

      “Turnbull handed over nearly half a billion borrowed dollars to the private Great Barrier Reef Foundation”

      And

      “Canada scales back carbon tax plans – the real world has paid Trudeau a visit”

      All at http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/

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    manalive

    Hepburn Wind is a “community-owned” wind farm in Victoria with two generators.
    According to the 2017 Annual Report during FY 2017 the revenue from the sale of electricity was $571,629 and revenue from the sale of renewable energy certificates was $625,015.

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      yarpos.

      The seem to be the poster child for both sides , both demonstrating the sucess of a community initiative and showing that it cant happen without REC subsidy.

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        yarpos.

        tis a puzzle, I look at it and cant see a nasty, my mind cant be devious enough (I must work on that)

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  • #
    Mark M

    Here’s the thing …

    Global warming reduces available wind energy, new research finds:

    “A switch to wind energy will help reduce greenhouse gas emissions — and reduce the global warming they cause.

    But there’s a catch, according to a new study: rising temperatures decrease wind speeds, making for less power bang for the wind turbine buck.”

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101109095314.htm

    Global Warming also causes more hurricanes, more extreme

    “U.N. chief hopes storms will sway climate skeptics like Trump”

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    yarpos

    I look on the bright side.

    Instead of just grid watching in summer as the network creaks and groans under load, in coming winter doldrum periods I will also be able to watch as they scurry around trying to cover absent renewable power.

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      Annie

      I’ve been keeping a record of our local weather the last several weeks, specifically with regard to how much sun our much-vaunted mini solar-grid system might expect to have over our long and often dreary winter hereabouts!

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      yarpos.

      In the end they are staying grid connected so it really doesnt matter. You have to wonder what value they are actually adding , apart for themselves in creaming fees of government grants

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        Annie

        The original flyer that they sent round talked about independence…ha ha ha! If they also want battery storage, guess where they’ll have to get their electricity from after weeks of our typical winter weather here? Some independence!
        We can observe the weather in the village from where we are and have many a chuckle and groan at the micro-grid plans.

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    [...] Nova describes how windpower is destroying baseload capacity. In the South Australian experiment total wind power capacity is now far above the average state [...]

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    pat

    3 Aug: The Hill: Financial watchdog ends Exxon accounting probe without taking action
    By Timothy Cama
    The probe was opened in 2016 to examine how Exxon Mobil accounts for its oil and natural gas reserves and factors the costs of climate change into its operations, including whether it is truthful enough with shareholders about the financial risks of climate change and climate policies…
    Exxon Mobil provided a letter from the SEC Friday saying that the investigation had been closed with no action, but that such a notification was not an exoneration. The SEC doesn’t comment publicly on its investigations.

    “The SEC initiated its investigation in January 2016, and ExxonMobil cooperated fully with the inquiry, ultimately producing more than 4.2 million pages of documents. After a thorough investigation, including a review of these documents, the SEC issued its closure letter,” Exxon Mobil spokesman Scott Silvestri said in a statement…
    http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/400293-financial-watchdog-closes-exxon-accounting-probe

    2 Aug: Daily Caller: REPORT: Record-Setting Temperature Reading At Death Valley Contaminated By ‘Solar Panels And RVs’
    by Michael Bastasch
    It turns out parked RVs and solar panels may have artificially driven up temperature readings at nearby, poorly cited thermometers used by government officials at Death Valley National Park in California, according to meteorologist and science blogger Anthony Watts…
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/02/death-valley-solar-panels-rv-temperature-contamination/

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    pat

    4 Aug: ABC: Drought-hit Queensland community welcomes ground-breaking renewable energy park
    ABC Rural By Tom Major
    An Australian-first hybrid wind, solar and battery storage facility is under construction in north Queensland, part of a regional boom in renewable energy.
    The 64-megawatt Kennedy Energy Park near Hughenden, 290 kilometres south-west of Townsville, will combine 12 wind turbines, 55,000 solar panels and 4 megawatt-hours of battery storage, to pump an average of 50MW into the power grid at any time.

    Developer Windlab’s construction manager Martin Vries said the complementary sources of power generation provided a blueprint for the future of electricity in the region.
    “Hughenden is a unique area in the region where there is an abundance of sun during the day, with 330 days of sunshine,” he said.
    “In addition, there is a high amount of wind resource in the afternoon and in the night, when the solar farm dims and doesn’t produce anything.”…

    Hughenden supermarket owner ***Jane Charuba said she had noticed a positive effect on the township from the two projects.
    “I think it’s brought a lot of economic value and energy, for want of a better word. The whole town seems energised with extra people,” she said…
    “It will never make up for what Aurizon took away, but if we get a couple of these other [renewable] projects happening and more families come, then great.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-04/drought-stricken-community-welcomes-renewable-investment/10069890

    ***Charuba is a safe choice for ABC, having been featured in articles/stories by ABC regularly since 2014. does ABC contact Friends of the ABC when they want subjects for interview?

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    Filipinos provide cheap labour on Townsville solar farm
    Townsville Bulletin-19 hours ago
    A CONTACTOR at the Ross River solar farm project has confirmed Filipinos were employed at lower than normal pay rates as unions demand …

    following could have been written by jo:

    3 Aug: EuropeanScientist: Wind power in Europe is madness; offshore wind power is off-the-scale madness
    By Bernard Durand
    B. DURAND is a geochemist specialised in fossil fuels. He was head of the geology-geochemistry department of IFPEN (a public research organization with expertise in fuels, engines, hybrid systems and vehicle electrification), then head of Ecole Nationale Supérieure de Géologie. He also is a member of ASPO (Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas) and of the French association “Sauvons le climat” (Save the Climate)

    For over 15 years now, Europe’s energy policy has focused mainly on the development of renewable, wind and solar photovoltaic electricity, with substantial subsidies paid by consumers. More and more rural areas are being invaded by giant wind turbines, and photovoltaic panels are springing up on roofs or in fields, even in countries with little sun even in summer and where winter nights are long. All in the name of the environment and the fight against CO2 emissions!

    Let’s summarise what many engineers and scientists familiar with the issue, such as members of the Energy groups of the Académie des Sciences and the Académie des Technologies in France, but also many others across all European countries, are saying about wind power. Most of the media have not deigned to publish their warnings, and they have apparently not shaken the “convictions” of the public authorities in the least. Europe, as we are reminded every day, does not need scientists. Like her elected officials, she just knows, full stop…READ ON
    https://www.europeanscientist.com/en/features/wind-power-in-europe-is-madness-offshore-wind-power-is-off-the-scale-madness/

    about the website:

    EuropeanScientist: Masthead
    The European Scientist brings together the efforts of an expansive network of scientists (including doctors, researchers, and analysts) as well as journalists and science writers who help bridge the gap between the expert and the layman…ETC
    https://www.europeanscientist.com/en/masthead/

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    You keep wondering how much of an effect wind power is having on coal fired power, you know, forcing them to shut down being the case, and even I thought that might also be the case, but really, from what I have seen, it’s just not happening.

    For years now, I have seen that coal fired power load curve closely following the load curve for actual power consumption, longer even that there has been so much wind power, and I can go back a number of years and see that happening.

    Hardly anything has changed at all, as those coal fired Units (and there are only 48 of them now still operational) go up and down in their power generation to follow the Load. (actual power consumption)

    That can be achieved on a fleet wide basis, but individual Units also wind up and down as well, and on a daily basis.

    They still operate the ‘front end’ as always, so the furnace still operates at normal operating temperature, hence the same coal gets burned whilst ever the Unit is on line, and all they do to vary the output is to vary the ‘Excitation’ so a varying amount of power is generated.

    You may wonder that might just be anecdotal, you know, the way I see it, but there is a real pointer here, and that is Victoria.

    There are now only 10 of those Units in Victoria, and while ever they are on line, each Unit delivers its full rated power, so the Load Curve for coal fired power in Victoria is more often than not a straight line across the page at the maximum power for all Units currently on line. Sometimes it dips, but that’s not all that often.

    So, in that State if wind power is up, then you might think coal fired power should go down, and that’s most definitely NOT the case.

    The only effect wind power has is on the power delivered from natural gas fired power and hydro power. If wind power is up, then those other two are down, and usually by the corresponding amount in total. The same applies when wind power is down. Those other two are up.

    The data shows that coal fired power just hums along as it always does, delivering virtually the same amount of power it always does, whether wind power is high or low.

    Once upon a time, I could say that, and people would just say ….. “Well, it’s Tony. He would say that.”

    However, now I have data and images to show it, and it’s just not happening.

    It seems that the ‘upper echelon’ talking heads of power generation are saying one thing, and the actual people who are operating the grid are doing what they have always done, operating the grid so that it actually works.

    Tony.

    Tony.

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      So it’s like buying a fancy sports car with a busted motor and towing it round with your old Falcon while telling all your mates you have this fancy sports car. Okayyyyyy…

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    pat

    read all:

    4 Aug: ChinaDaily: Wind, solar power output to surge
    By ZHENG YIRAN
    Wind and solar energy will account for about 50 percent of the total power produced in the world by 2050, aided largely by lower production costs, with China leading the revolution, a new report said.
    According to the report from Bloomberg New Energy Finance, China will be at the forefront of the increased generation of clean energy, while power storage will benefit from the rapid advances in battery technologies. By 2050, China will take pole position in wind and solar energy market share, as well as the storage batteries market, the report said…

    By 2050, China’s total installed capacity in wind power (onshore and offshore) and solar power (utility-scale, distributed and photothermal) will reach 1,003 gigawatts and 1,137 gigawatts, accounting for 30 percent and 21 percent of the market share respectively. Its total installed capacity of storage batteries, including small and large-scale ones, is estimated to surpass 154 GW, which will be 14 percent of the global total.
    “Setting up new wind and solar power plants will be less expensive than building new coal plants due to the lower production costs in China. By 2028, new wind and solar power plant costs will be less than those for existing coal plants,” said Yvonne Liu, an energy analyst with BNEF.
    BNEF forecasts that by 2025, China will no longer build new coal plants, owing to the cost factor.

    Furthermore, the report points out that between 2020 and 2050, coal-fired power generation will see a sharp decline from 62 percent to merely 16 percent, while wind and solar power generation will increase significantly from 6 percent to 31 percent and from 4 percent to 15 percent. Other renewables such as hydro and nuclear power will also witness substantial growth…

    Traditional coal plants have already felt the pressure of the energy transition. In 2014, China’s coal-rich Shanxi province issued guidelines urging coal plants in Shanxi to eliminate coal-fired generators of over 300,000 kW capacity to cater to the ultra-low-emission standards set for 2017.
    Shanxi Xingneng Power Co Ltd, a traditional coal company in the region, completed the transformation as early as 2015…

    ***Wang told China Daily that coal enterprises must acknowledge the benefits of renewable energy. “However, thermal power generation is fundamental for China as it ensures energy security. Its characteristic of stability is irreplaceable at present.”…
    http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201808/04/WS5b65020da3100d951b8c8965.html

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    pat

    2 Aug: Quartz India: POWER, TRIPPED: India’s solar power boom is riding on poor quality, finds a study
    PI Berlin analysed six projects in collaboration with the ministry of new and renewable energy and two state-run organisations.
    by Sushma U N
    The solar modules or panels that form the industry’s backbone are sub-par and the many plants mushrooming across India are flawed in their construction, besides being poorly maintained, according to a study by PI Berlin (LINK 137-page Sept 2017 report), a German technical advisory firm…

    “The Indian market is one of the most profitable yet risky for project developers and investors in photovoltaics (PV or silicon-based solar panels). While large-scale projects of over 100 megawatts are now common, the investment risks caused by the climate, poor installation, and lack of proper maintenance is on the rise,” PI Berlin said in a statement (LINK)…

    Problems galore
    The PI Berlin team found issues in nearly every aspect of the plants they surveyed. Such problems resulted in poor performance and affected the investors’ returns.
    Take module quality for starters…READ ALL
    https://qz.com/india/1345508/poor-quality-solar-panels-may-ruin-indias-renewable-energy-boom/

    4 Aug: Bloomberg: China Slaps 25% Tariff on U.S. Solar Cells It Rarely Imports
    By Chris Martin
    China plans to impose a 25 percent tariff on imports of U.S.-manufactured solar cells as part of its $60 billion retaliation against President Donald Trump’s proposed $200 billion in import tariffs.
    China is the world’s biggest manufacture of solar cells, which are assembled into photovoltaic panels, and the U.S. exports few, if any, to China.

    Noticeably absent from the latest list is polysilicon, the main ingredient in solar cells, which the U.S. does export to China…
    That’s probably because there’s already an existing 57 percent Chinese duty on U.S. polysilicon due to an earlier solar trade dispute now in its fourth year. Polysilicon producers in the U.S. include REC Silicon ASA and Hemlock Semiconductor Corp. REC, which is based in Norway, fired about 100 people at a factory in Washington last month as it continues to grapple with the 2014 duties.

    What could be more harmful to the U.S. solar industry is if Trump raises tariffs on inverter equipment for solar panels to 25 percent from 10 percent, said Jeffrey Osborne, an analyst at Cowen & Co. Both SolarEdge Technologies Inc. and Enphase Energy Inc. produce inverters in China that they import to the U.S.
    SolarEdge said on a conference call Thursday that if the U.S. tariff was increased to 25 percent they would likely shift to importing from its European factories instead of those in China.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-03/china-slaps-25-tariff-on-u-s-solar-cells-it-rarely-imports

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      yarpos

      Flawed construction and poorly maintained !! outrageous! in India? surely not!?

      Anyone who has done business there, is very non shocked.

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    ROM

    .
    Just an observation relevant to all the very frustrated and angry commentary above, a personal observation that has arisen from watching humanity and unfolding events with a lot of interest for nigh on seventy of my eighty years.

    So often I have seen and noted with hindsight that when a situation and / or an arrangement that is against the public’s or a specific group’s interests begins to be commented on and discussed, change, often substantial in that situation or circumstance is already underway.

    But the fact that such a change to a situation or a circumstance is under way is rarely realised until we can look in the rear view mirror and can see how the changes to those circumstances and situations unfolded.

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      yarpos

      sure, but in the absence of real information people vent their spleens and often also insert their own scenarios for what is happening that is often worse than reality. Saw it often in my working life.

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    yarpos

    The graphs are somewhat misleading really , as they infer the delivery of power. With wind power , at some point, and on a regular basis, nothing will be delivered and the system may in fact be a nett drain on the grid.

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    ROM

    Maybe a lot of folks here fail to realise just how much power a wind turbine CONSUMES from the grid when it is not generating power on its own accord.

    The wind turbine manufacturers and industry are extremely closed lip on this subject and you have to do a lot of resaearch to even find any articles on the subject of wind turbines consumprtion of grid power.
    And it seems that this power use may not be paid for at all by the turbine operators / owners.

    If so it is another blatant hidden subsidy , one of many in the renewable energy field and another subsidy that makes for the ever reliable fossil fueled generators even harder to compete against the politically advantaged at every point renewable energy industry and lobby.

    So with that in mind from “Machine Design”-

    How Much Power Does It Take to Run a Wind Turbine?

    Jerry Graf is a concerned citizen who happens to have a Master’s degree in mechanical engineering. He recently read an item in his local paper about a school district that contemplated investing over a quarter million dollars in roof-top wind turbines. “There was a quote from someone in charge of school facilities that indicated they had no idea how much electricity the turbines would actually generate. As I got further into the details myself, I realized the turbines would actually produce next to nothing,” he says.

    The incident got Graf interested in analyzing other wind installations. He uses the turbine maker’s published power curve to figure out what the electrical output is likely to be. The power curve is just the turbine’s electrical output plotted against wind speed. But these curves are just estimates. They don’t account for one factor that can be important, particularly for megawatt-scale turbines: the amount of electrical power the turbine itself consumes.

    Big turbines often incorporate rechargeable batteries or ultracapacitors to power their own electrical systems. When those get depleted, the power must come from the grid. This power goes into running equipment such as yaw mechanisms that keep the blades turned into the wind; blade-pitch controls that meter the spinning rotor; aircraft lights and data-collection electronics; oil heaters, pumps, and coolers for the multi-ton gearbox; and hydraulic brakes for locking blades down in high winds.

    Turbines in northern climes also need blade heaters to prevent icing. Reports I’ve seen say these heaters can consume up to 20% of a turbine’s rated power output. Many big turbines also need dehumidifiers and heaters in their nacelles. And until recently, large turbines employed doubly-fed induction generators that bleed power from the grid to create their magnetic fields. (It should be said, though, that designs now on the drawing boards use permanent magnets instead.)

    Instances of low or no wind pose another problem. Large turbines may need to use their generators as motors to help get the blades turning. And some wind skeptics have posed a question about the direct-drive turbines now emerging from the labs: Large ships frequently must expend energy to slowly turn their heavy driveshafts when at port to prevent them from sagging. Could the same be said of these superlarge wind turbines?

    Wind-farm operators don’t say much about turbine-power demands. Typically, turbine-power consumption is one of the factors that gets lumped into a wind-farm’s operation and maintenance costs. I’ve never found either a wind-farm operator or a wind-turbine maker willing to discuss these costs. It would not be much of an exaggeration to say the wind industry treats such information as a state secret.

    That’s unfortunate. Wind boosters open themselves up to skepticism about their industry’s viability when they don’t disclose real figures about the power their turbines generate and consume. Cynics might be tempted to claim we could reach a point where we’ve commissioned so many wind turbines that we’ll need to build new coal-fired power plants to run them. Without hard data, who’s to say they aren’t right?

    —————————-

    And for those interested and this is 2014 vintage and the German renewable energy program hasn’t got any better and is getting worse economically, socially and industrially re reliability and costs.
    I think the current cost of Germany’s failing Energeiwende is well north of 200 billion euros so far. [ $314 billion Aud ]

    It makes Rudd’s NBN look like a gift compared to the Energeiwende and both are about as useless and unreliable and expensive as the other .

    From Pierre Gosselins NoTricksZone blog;

    Angela Merkel’s Vice Chancellor Stuns, Declares Germany’s ‘Energiewende’ To Be On ‘The Verge Of Failure’!

    In a stunning admission by Germany’s Economics Minister and Vice Chancellor to Angela Merkel, Sigmar Gabriel announced in a recent speech that the country’s once highly ballyhooed transformation to renewable energy, the so called Energiewende, a model that has been adopted by a number of countries worldwide, is “on the verge of failure“.
    Speaking at an event at SMA Solar, Germany’s leading manufacturer of solar technology, Gabriel even dropped yet another admission bomb:

    The truth is that in all fields we under-estimated the complexity of the Energiewende.”

    So where are our Australian politicians or maybe they are just plain illiterate and so lacking intelligence to the point where they can’t read the obvious news out of just about every major nation who has gone into renewable energy in a big way a decade or so ago and who are now trying to rebuild their energy supply systems by once again building those “horrible polluting ” coal fired generators and nuclear power plants.

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    ROM

    If you are interested in how much power does a wind turbine use from the grid then a couple of sites here.

    This site goes back to the mid 2000′s but is still relevant as the turbine’s basics haven’t changed much since they were first developed to produce electricity.

    Energy consumption in wind facilities

    The figure given for the turbines that the author analysed was around 8% plus of the turbine’s reported production output actually was drawn back and used from the Grid to maintain the turbine facilities when the turbine was not generating any power itself .
    However this figure apparently can rise much further when de-icing and heating of lubricating oils and etc have to be used in cold conditions witha non generating turbine witha figure I have seen the equivalent of around 15% of the turbines total production being drawn back from the grid to ;power the turbine essentials when it is not generating power itself. .

    From the UK’s Daily Mail;

    New wind turbine farce: How they take power from the National Grid even when they are NOT generating any electricity

    And it is quoted very definitely at a Canadian site that the wind turbine companies apparently do not measure this drawback of power from the grid and most definitely DO NOT pay for this energy that they draw back,, that they extract from the grid resources , energy that is used to maintain the turbines when they are not generating power themselves.

    So another very nice handy little direct and very hidden subsidy to wnd turbines and once again, we the consumers have to cover the cost of that power used at no cost to them, by the turbine operators.

    The big coal generating stations run three meters.
    The first meter measures the electrical energy they generate and put out in the grid.
    The second meter measures the amount of power they use to run their own facilities as this power has a cost and is therefore a tax deductible item.
    The third meter is for all the non generating costs such as administration and rest rooms and etc that are part of any significant industrial enterprise

    That information comes direct from an electrical engineer who was boss of a small team of crack engineers whose job it was to startup any revamped or new boilers and turbines and any new equipment or such items as Victoria’s white elephant desalination plant.

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    pat

    Indian cricketers have been wearing extra clothing in Birmingham this week – not sweaters, but zip-up vests. this PA piece, posted an hour ago, has a sensible headline:

    4 Aug: ThisIsOxfordshire: Press Association: Highs of 31C expected as Britain basks in glorious weekend sunshine
    Sun-lovers hitting the beaches on England’s south coast will see temperatures peaking at 31C (87.8F) over Saturday and Sunday, the Met Office predicted…
    Temperatures will need to climb significantly if they are to come close to England’s current August record – 38.5C (101.3F) reached in Faversham, Kent, in 2003…
    The Met Office said it was unlikely that the overall European highest temperature recorded – 48C (118.4F) in Athens, Greece in 1977 – would be beaten…

    even the predicted “heatwave” seems to have been called off in this garbled piece:

    4 Aug: UK Express: BBC Weather forecast: ‘Heavy RAIN’ to STOP heatwave as ‘cold front’ hits this part of UK
    BBC WEATHER has forecast a “cold front” could disrupt scorching temperatures today as it sweeps across some parts of the country, while the south of Britain is expecting thermometers to near 33C.
    By Darren Hunt
    BBC Weather forecaster, Matt Taylor, said: “Today a very hot day in store, particularly to southern parts of the country.
    “Mostly dry, even if you are humid, but there will be a few showers around, a few refreshing showers I suspect. One or two heavy ones as well.”
    He added: “It is all come courtesy from this cold front here, which has been straddling all the way from northwest Wales, to northern England, maybe even clipping southeast Scotland.”…

    “33C somewhere around London, not out of the realms of possibilities. In the afternoon we will see a few showers into north Wales, that band of rain will have slipped a bit further south.”…

    Despite the wet weather forecast for some parts of the country, experts have claimed the hot weather Britain has experienced this summer is likely to become the norm over the coming years.
    Kathryn Brown from the Committee on Climate Change has warned heatwaves will become more intense in the future in Britain.
    She said: “What we expect in the UK is for heatwaves to become more frequent and more intense.
    “And if you look back at the heatwave from 2003 as an example, we expect that to become a normal summer by 2040 under a sort of medium level of global warming.”

    When asked about what this would mean, Ms Brown told Channel 4 News: “So there are costs across the board, there are also a few benefits, but not as many as the cost.
    So there are impacts on health and wellbeing. So we know that mortality starts to rise above temperatures of actually about 20C. There are impacts on productivity and well-being because people can’t sleep at night when temperatures are over 26C.

    “And also, obviously, if you’re overheating in the work environment your productivity goes down. There are impacts on agricultural production at the moment, due to, mainly lack of water as well as the high temperatures.
    “And, increasingly as well, impacts on the natural environment for again, water and high temperatures.”…
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/998368/BBC-Weather-forecast-UK-heatwave-Met-Office-temperature-August-2018-latest-news

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    pat

    has anywhere in Spain or Portugal reached anything close to 50C? no, not at all, but never mind:

    4 Aug: UK Express: RED ALERT weather warnings: 50C killer heatwave puts European tourist hotspots in DANGER
    SPAIN and Portugal have issued “extreme risk” weather warnings with red alerts throughout Europe, with an all-time temperature record of 50C putting lives at risk, amid an ongoing heatwave.
    By Oli Smith
    The scorching heatwave in Europe looks set to break all-time record temperatures today, with Spain and Portugal braced for 50C…
    Sky News forecaster Joanne Robinson said: “We will likely see records broken today. The record in Spain stands at 47.3C and in Portugal it is 47.4C.
    “Temperatures have already reached well into the 40s over the past week and this looks likely to build this weekend.”…

    A weather map from Spain’s weather agency, AEMET, this morning forecast temperatures to anywhere between 44C and 50C in parts of Portugal and Spain…
    The agency tweeted: “After 45ºC on Friday in points of Andalusia and Extremadura, the night has been very warm: at midnight 32C and even 34C were exceeded in much of the southwest of the peninsula. At 6 in the morning, there were areas above 30 and 32C.”…
    Nuno Moreira, from Portugal’s weather agency IPMA, said: “Of course it’s possible the record is broken, but we cannot be sure about that because our forecasts are saying that we might have 46C or 47C.”…
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/998864/Weather-warning-red-alert-Spain-Portugal-tourists-heatwave

    Murdoch’s Sun gets sillier and sillier:

    3 Aug: UK Sun: ON THE BOIL Global heatwave sees scores killed in wildfires, crops failing and fish suffocating in rivers as the planet sizzles
    As Britain braces itself for yet another heatwave, the rest of the world is being scorched by torrid weather that is even melting a glacier near the arctic circle
    By Patrick Knox
    SCORCHING heatwaves are wreaking havoc across the world, with people dying from fire and heatstroke – while drought is causing “catastrophic” failure of Europe’s crops.
    Searing heat is currently plaguing the planet, with communities becoming engulfed in flames, fish dying in their rivers and ancient glaciers melting as some of the hottest conditions in living memory begin to take its toll.
    MAP: This map shows how the record breaking heatwaves are affecting our planet right now…

    It’s set to be scalded by temperatures of at least 47C – with some forests expected to burst into flames in Portugal.
    Ex-BBC and Met Office forecaster John Hammond of weathertrending said: “Hell is a place on Earth. Iberia is heating up to a potential 50C.”…
    Met Office forecaster Richard Miles said: “48C is the most realistic maximum temperature in inland Spain and Portugal, but there’s a chance it could be hotter…

    In eastern Europe, Poland was also enduring unusually high temperatures of up to 34C.
    So much so that the country’s power plants went into emergency mode to increase output because of wide use of air conditioning and electric fans…
    In central Europe there has also been reports that fish are beginning to suffocate in the rivers Rhine and the Danube.
    But even more worryingly, Europe could face bread and other food shortages – as well as price rises – because scorching temperatures have devastated wheat fields across the continent…

    Professor Ted Shepherd, Climate Scientist at the University of Reading, told Sun Online that global warming was steadily causing more and more heatwaves.
    He said: “Like a rising tide, it steadily pushes each one higher.
    “We are seeing global warming in the number of record-breaking temperatures in so many places across the world this summer.”…

    Professor Richard Betts, Chair in Climate Impacts at the University of Exeter, agreed, saying: “Global warming is making hot weather even hotter around the world.
    “Heatwaves have always happened, but now they are coming on top of a warming climate, so the high temperatures are climbing even higher than they would have done.
    “As the world continues to warm, hot and cold weather will come and go as it always has, but hot weather will happen more often and be hotter than we’re used to.
    “In parts of the world that are already hot, sooner or later this could become unbearable.”…
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6925426/heatwave-2018-europe-august-wildfires-japan-china/

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    David Maddison

    Let’s just get the job done and let the grid collapse.

    Only then will the sheeple and politicians realise that unreliables are unsustainable.

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    Alan Grey

    This immoral and reprehensible policy has drives tens of thousands of poor people into complete poverty, unable to afford energy. The virtue signally elite need to stop causing such incredible suffering

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    truth

    The level playing field would have to strictly apply to wind and solar generators…ie they would have to be subject to the large penalty for failure to deliver that at the moment is applied only to baseload …scheduled …generators.

    AEMO and Turnbull will never level the playing field…not just because of the outcry from their RE rentseekers and their behemoth backers like Bloomberg…Goldman Sachs et al..but because they know RE …even firmed with batteries and PHES…will never be able to deliver as cheaply and reliably as new COAL generators.

    There seems to be a desperation from AEMO’s Zibelman and ESB’s Schott now to force MPs to sign up to NEG by indicating the MPs will be blamed for the inevitably higher prices that they claim will ensue with NO NEG.

    Could it be that what AEMO and ESB are REALLY afraid of is that they’ve got a tiger by the tail?
    This whole thing’s been more frenetic and ad hoc than I can remember ANY policy/change ever being.

    Could it be that they know they’re losing control…after all AEMO admitted as much a few months back when they virtually announced that they MUST get control of all the rooftop solar being installed in Australia ASAP.,..all the details…or they would lose control of the grid…and they said THEY DON”T KNOW HOW TO DO IT…that NOBODY does.

    And just recently Audrey Zibelman has expressed great concern over grid defection …with no answers as to how the grid would be paid for if consumers using it were too few….especially commercial consumers.

    They also know that a great deal of expensive storage [ the batteries and the PHES] and ancillary services like FCAS and synchronous condensers etc…plus hugely expensive extra transmission and interconnector build… will be required .

    With the large number of new RE projects said to be already in the pipeline at various stages of completion…and with some that are already built …now finding that due to congestion problems they may not be permitted to be connected to the grid without paying further huge sums in firming costs which could make their already-contracted PPAs untenable…could it be that AEMO fears it’s facing widespread chaos without the go-ahead the NEG would give them to cater to and cosset RE virtually with abandon…. considering the NEG is going to set it in concrete that a weather-dependent intermittent-based electricity system is the only option Australians are to be permitted to have from here on in… and we just have to suck it up and cough up whatever it takes as far as funding is concerned…once they’ve finished using and abusing COAL as a useful stopgap to keep Australia’s lights on.

    Fundamentally…having decided…with zero mandate …that the future for Australians is to be the lab rats in Turnbull’s big experiment with which he hopes to impress international Socialists…..AEMO has two vital needs it must meet to ward off chaos…a huge amount of storage and hugely costly extra transmission and interconnector build.

    The storage necessarily includes …as well as grid-scale batteries…the batteries purchased for rooftop solar by individual householders …exhorted to be ‘active consumers’…who will be herded by AEMO into collectives…Virtual Power Plants …which will be ‘orchestrated’…controlled by AEMO…Tesla…Sonnen…Sunverge et al…plus the batteries in all the EVs Australians are to be forced…with the help of regulations that exclude our present or preferred vehicles …forced into buying during the next decade or do without altogether.

    Those of us who resist rooftop solar and living in power plants will not to be allowed to escape the oversight by the central authorities.

    We’ll be required to buy smart meters [as advised in the recent ACCC report] and thereafter our load will be made use of by AEMO et al..for frequency services or whatever.

    As Zibelman said in as many words ..resistance is futile.

    But resist we must IMO.

    The transmission needs for RE will be given the imprimatur of being intrinsic & indispensable as Australia becomes desperately dependent on weather-dependent intermittents and their weather-dependent storage and props…ALL weather-dependent.

    So I’m wondering if there’s almost a panic on…in the face of a juggernaut of uncontrollable [ without curtailment and probably litigation] rubbish electricity with nothing ready for controlling it or safe use of it.

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