By Jo Nova
It’s just another hiccup on the road to Utopia
Two years ago the Victorian government banned new houses adding a gas connection. The houses had to be built “all electric”. It’s all part of a smooth and efficient transition, the government said. (And you ‘vill save money whether you like it or not.*).
However the demand for electricity in some areas is so high that the voltage falls, and some householders can only use one hotplate on the stove at a time, or they can’t get the heat pump to work at all. And naturally, they can’t charge their electric vehicle. But it’s all for a good cause — pagan weather control.
Even the ABC can’t spin this:
Victorians transitioning from gas exacerbates growing problem of undervoltage
ABC News
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- A network operator has warned a massive spike in power consumption from houses transitioning off gas has led to undervoltage.
- It is causing some households to be unable to use car chargers, cooktops and heaters.
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Do the maths: by their own numbers, that’s 300,000 incidents a year where appliances fail:
CitiPower said it had received about 1,000 voltage complaints in the past 12 months, and estimate that for every complaint there are 320 additional customers experiencing non-compliant voltages.
Undervoltage issues were occurring primarily in older areas of the network, such as inner city and older suburban Melbourne, and older urban areas of Ballarat, Geelong and Bendigo.
“…shortly after moving in, problems started. First, Ms Slako noticed she could only use one hotplate at a time on her induction cooktop. Then she found the microwave would not heat food at dinnertime, but would burn everything at other times.
This month, she discovered her split system would not heat the house.”
“There’s a sense of dread waiting for winter when I’m cold and the split system’s not heating reliably.
From next year existing houses won’t be able to replace their gas appliances anymore. (Better lock in that new gas system now while you still can, eh?)
In other news, thousands flee Victoria amid crime and bad governance.
h/t David B
*Savings, as calculated by our models, and not compared to actual electricity costs of 1995.
Photo by Jo
“Then she found the microwave would not heat food at dinnertime, but would burn everything at other times.”
I had to look that up. The linked-to site says “microwaves detest low voltage”.
https://canyoumicrowavewiki.com/microwave-overheating-undervolted-outlet-mystery/
Holy cow!
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Some of the “advice” seems inaccurate. Why call a domestic electrician when your mains voltage is too low? And who in their right mind would blast dust buildup on rear vents with compressed air?
60
Actually using compressed air to blast dust off is one of the first maintenance activities. Try opening your computer up – they get quite dirty inside and that stops cooling of the internal components.
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I have to regularly clean the fan grills on the Lancaster spots at the local Museum, but I never would use compressed air, which tends to force dust into locations it should never accumulate. Have always only used a soft-bristle brush. And when regularly cleaning museum exhibits, only water and a soft brush is used, as plastics, knobs, etc., tend to break very easily.
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Who wouldve thought this would be an issue? Create an electric grid that is unreliable in terms of supply. Create increased demand by forcing people to use it. Not only does it create usage issues it must increase costs. So not only is it more expensive but it’s less reliable. and people still vote for these clowns.
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Zigmaster, it’s ALL part of the plan!
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Methinks you give too much credit, they are simpletons.
240
Agreed, bad policy got them into this mess and they’ll eventually be thrown out of office.
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Eventually the sun will go nova.
I think you under estimate the effectiveness of the political “machines”. Will your grand children see the benefits of the “new order”?
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The Coalition has taken a drubbing, but they should win the next election comfortably with the right platform.
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” but they should win the next election comfortably with the right platform.”
Well,that rider guarantees they won’t!
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Past time to dust off those Tumbrels?
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for your convenience!
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I fear this will be coming – really soon – to the UK.
“The UK government is implementing a ban on new gas connections to newly built houses, primarily through the upcoming Future Homes Standard. While timelines have shifted, the current policy aims to ensure all new homes built from 2025 (with full enforcement potentially arriving around 2026/2027) use low-carbon heating systems, such as heat pumps, rather than traditional gas boilers.” Statement from British Gas …
Thanks for the explicit warning.
And the Maladroit Mr. Miliband is STILL trying to force EVs [which need charging] and Heat Pumps [more electricity] onto a not-very-welcoming public.
Auto
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Already developers who wanted to go all electric were told that the grid supply does not exist so had to use gas. This is not going to change within the remainder of our student union government.
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Gerry,
Yes.
Highlights the – terminal? – disconnect between Whitehall and Westminster, on one hand – and Mistress Reality on the other.
The former – in their Future Home Standard – require homes not to have gas.
The latter says there is no significant electricity either.
Modish ambitions – no matter how far-fetched – do NOT trump Reality.
Auto
60
Its not just the microwave. Its ALL your appliances. If you reach a critical point in your street when there are too many solar panels your appliances face a varying voltage that eventually destroys them.
Add another $TRILLION to the ALP/Green dream.
Feelings do not power grids.
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Now think about what this is doing to your batteries on the EV!
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Think about the phase imbalances in the area with too much power being produced on one phase. AC power was never invented or designed to be produced by thousands of different generators. Tesla would be wondering at the stupidity.
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The obvious thing to do is run all the solar panels into the Earth’s resonant frequency and transfer power to the BIG generator, our planet. However, that means everything is supplied at no cost and no tax. Governments will not be happy.
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The switch mode power supply, ubiquitous in electronics today, can operate with a wide range of input voltages so a lot of non-homemakers would not know there is a problem.
It was this power supply that made the Apple II computer so popular.
80
A lot of devices with a SMPS consume constant power so as the supply voltage drops the current increases which causes the voltage to drop further.
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But many plugpacks and other switching power supplies were designed for 110/220VAC. So when they are expected to work at 260 VAC RMS, the peak voltages are a lot higher, and in some cases may exceed their design limits.
80
Back in the 80′ and Nineties, Sanyo, and others, had a special range of “white-goods’ (often green or some other colour). made for the “emerging” consumers in South East Asia.
According to the “tech plate”, these devices (mainly refrigerators), would cheerfully run on any filthy input of electrons from 90Volts AC to 260V AC.
Switch-mode power supplies had been around for a while; turning up in bulk in the “second wave” of “arcade” games and then personal computers. The “feral” AC was rectified, regulated and then “chopped” into a high-frequency “square-wave” that was then stepped down and rectified to various “ripple-free” Direct current voltages (and current ratings).
And that was FORTY YEARS AGO, boys and girls. Tempus fugit, and all that.
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And compare the weight of the S-100 based computer system power supplies to that of the Apple systems.
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Reckon I’ve been warning anyone who’ll listen for five years at least that Developers only install what’s needed, ie. the copper in your street was not designed to carry the load that’s coming. Why would a Developer spend extra “just in case?” IMO it’s the biggest sleeper of them all in the mad rush to renewables. How much to re-cable the Nation? A couple of $trillion?
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I wouldn’t mention developers in the conversation. Developers install what the authorities require them to. It’s not the developer’s role to predict future government policy or where technology is headed. Or spend money volunatarily on what ifs. It’s the role of the authorities to manage that, and manage a coordinated utility network delivery in new developments. But then authorities are hamstrung by governments making silly decisions. Such as phasing out gas in existing areas that are reliant on gas for adequate energy, and mandating it in unrealistic timeframes. The government even predicting a shortfall of energy in its own mandated timeframes.
And for those playing at home. Yes, it’s Victoria.
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Fair point.
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Existing infrastructure was originally designed and installed to meet a certain defined load and was sized according to applicable electrical codes and utility standards. The “new loads” have overloaded the secondary distribution transformers, resulting in voltage drop. The more load that is added, the lower the available voltage, unless and until the pole/pad mount transformers are increased in capacity, as well as the service entrance conductors for the connected domiciles or businesses. Then, either the distribution voltage is raised, and/or the substation transformers are increased in capacity, and then the upstream conductors and such are resized.
You can’t put 400 Liters/Min through a garden hose without losing pressure. Demanding that the “old” system provide the “new” connected loads without voltage loss, without upgrading the entire system, is ignorant and stupid.
The push to electrify all things without planning for the additional load and the supply to feed it, is truly an example of ignorance and hubris, which seem to be the norm for pollies and greenies.
If the rated load of a transformer is exceeded, the output voltage will drop. Period. That’s the physics.
Any motor or transformer load will see the reduced voltage and then things like overheating and malfunction occur.
You’re looking at stunning costs to replace an entire grid system to satisfy the newly connected loads. Think Trillions and Decades.
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Just a brilliant explanation, Lance.
Perhaps now you can see why anything to do with electrical engineering ….. when it comes to political decisions, is overseen by economists!
As an aside, it also puts the lowest bidder contracts right into perspective, eh!
Tony.
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Decades ago I learned the hard way that running a big air compressor at the same time as a Makita mitre saw appears to be possible from a 3.5KVA petrol Generator but upon start-up the compressor’s motor tries to suck almost double its running amps so the mitre saw slows down and the compressor heats up and burns out. Even a 50m power-cord across a paddock will cause a big voltage drop and burn out quite a large circular saw.
Electricity is invisible but not magic so I like your water analogy which makes sense to most people.
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Are you sure? My understanding is that it will continue to work, until it doesn’t, at which point the only output is a brown smell.
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Yep transformers continue to work until a protection device saves it otherwise smoke is emitted. The various impedances add up to determine the voltage drops along the various stages and the amount of power lost to heating the wires, transformers etc. Auto Tapping transformers at various high voltage sites are used to try to stabilise the voltage. With rooftop solar and the increasing loads you really need Auto Tapping transformers at the street level as well and that will be eye watering expensive. Simple diode rectified loads on the mains are another big issue with crazy current waveforms. Add in the effect of power factors and this stuff is complex yet a politician can tell you it will be ok so give me your money.
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Then add to that the “Copper bandist” who increasingly “raid” all manner of installation to STEAL the copper wire in them. Unfortunately, the toll oaf dead and maimed “bandits” is still fairly low; maybe a few of them have done some serious “homework”. Or something else is going on…..
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Why would a Developer spend extra “just in case?” IMO it’s the biggest sleeper of them all in the mad rush to renewables.
Perhaps someone should comment on the policy of Western Australia to introduce two-phase 480v rather than require full installation of a full three phase distribution network.
that happened well before my time here.
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I wonder whether “Undervoltage issues were occurring primarily in older areas of the network, such as inner city and older suburban Melbourne” might make those Urban Greenies change their ‘minds’.
Could well make some City Seats less likely for Labor to win.
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While labelled Victoria , I think this article is more about Melbourne as so many are. Quite a few things coming together in older suburbs, the clustering of the faithful and uncoordinated government largesse.
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Worked for a company years ago that decided that all the busy inner city folks would just love to buy gourmet ready made meals to take home. Huge investments in permits ( all approved) rebuilding a premise to food grade standards, equipment etc, then the crunch. First test run blacked out the whole suburb. No one had asked the question “how much EXTRA power would this facility draw”. Only a few million wasted. place never opened its doors .
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G #3
Maybe, but here is a much better way to make the whole younger gens wake up and start thinking – take away their phone/internet, I want a big bag of popcorn if it happens!!!! 🙂
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2026/04/23/green-energy-prices-are-forcing-internet-providers-to-consider-rationing-access/
the only stupid thing here is they are blaming US/Iran when the real underlying stuff up is net zero!
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It is sweet that the biggest idiots are the first ones to suffer.
I’ve long advocated that if they have to switch power off to save the grid that the places to cut are those that vote most heavily for ruinables.
Plus all those lovely inner urban parks would make great sites for wind mills.
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A news report on the Victorian situation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Y8ZT69wPU
At 2:30 there is quote from an ‘authority’ that 300,000 people affected is not yet a major issue
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Why am I laughing so hard?
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because you think you are immune
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All this grief for what purpose? To stop the weather changing in Victoria?
We do not want warmer winters according to the Government. And there is no way we will be allowed use our vast reserves of coal/gas/oil or briquettes. Even coal export is banned.
And the State Electricity Commission thanks to a change to the Victorian Constitution is not allowed to develop fossil fuel energy. It all has to be imported.
This is either insanity, or a continuing attack on the State of Victoria by the Government of Victoria, impoverishing everyone directly with massive booming land taxes, payroll taxes and even road tolls which have expired but continue as profiteering. While tens of billions go missing on giant projects no one needed and not on ones which are needed. State Debt under Labor/Greens is now over $200Billion. On top of National debt over $1000Billion. That’s the real Climate Change.
As an example the Government tripling of the $5 per person tax on visiting cruise liner passengers, so many ships that the Spirit of Victoria had to be moved to Geelong.
But visiting ships, bringing up to 20,000 people a day to Melbourne and $10million a day have stopped almost completely. So no revenue at all. No visitors and no spending. Mission to cripple Melbourne seaborn tourism totally accomplished, for the tiny amount of $10 a person. Now staff sit around at Port Melbourne pier all summer with almost no visitors at all. Why have a minister for Tourism? A real minister for tourism would have made visiting Melbourne free, not tripled the fee.
Like when the Andrews Government tripled the revenue on coal and forced the closure and total demolition of the Hazelwood coal power station. Only 50 years old and functioning at 98% of design efficiency when closed. Victoria gives real meaning to a government created brown out. None of the environmental, energy security, tourism damage is the slightests bit accidental. And it is not about the weather.
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Failed microwaves and cooktops are obvious (both in the sense of users noticing the effects and network operators planning to avoid the effects) immediate signals of the impact of low system voltage. Less obvious to consumers is the damage done to electric motors by overheating and mechanical wear and tear, caused by the wobbly load and extra current pull.
You might not immediately notice the underperformance of your fridge, washing machine, a/c, etc – but when the consumer grade motor burns out next year you will.
All 100% predictable, foreseen, and measured by the network operators – despite spokesthings doing the ‘Gosh, we’ve had lots of non-compliant voltage complaints lately – something must have gone wrong somewhere’ thing.
It’s almost as if there is a disconnect between government policy and physics.
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That is the intended consequence of the dumbing-down of the “education” system.
And the domination of the anti-energy Left in general.
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“It’s almost as if there is a disconnect between government policy and physics.”
Victorias minister for Climate Action, Minister for Energy and Resources and Minister for Victorias State Electricity Commission. Lilly D’Ambrosio.
Lily was born in 1964 in Melbourne. She grew up in Fawkner as one of two children. Lily attended St Aloysius’ College, North Melbourne.
Lily holds a Bachelor of Arts from the University of Melbourne, majoring in English, Philosophy, and Politics. She also completed a Diploma in Public Policy. Following her studies, Lily began her career in 1986 as an organiser with the Australian Services Union. In 1994, she was promoted to the role of State organiser – a position she served until 1999. Du…
So, eminently qualified for you know, a technical portfolio
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That’s absolutely typical of the politico-bureacratic class. Very, very few of them would have ever taken a hard science course beyond the compulsory ones, some of them would have taken biology in the last couple of years at high school but not at university.
They are technically illiterate, and it becomes pretty obvious when Budget time comes around that they are also innumerate.
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“It’s almost as if there is a disconnect between government policy and physics.”
How can that be?
Do the Laws of Physics not bend to conform with this week’s Cause, and deform utterly when legislation is passed?
Auto – getting the same vibe in the UK …
20
The typical gas consumption of a Victorian household, pre-ban is equivalent to quite a few kWh of electricity.
The following analysis suggests that the grid needs to find an additional 6 to 9 kWh per day per typical household.
Australians have to understand that we are no longer an energy rich nation.
We are energy poor, by design.
I asked Gulag AI:
I then asked it:
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My parents had a new house built in 1993 in a regional town in Gippsland, Victoria, a typical Brick veneer 4 bed, 2 bathroom, 2 living areas modest suburban home by the standard of the day. Mains gas heating with 2 vertical bank gas heaters, 1 in each living area, gas cooktop and gas instant hot water. All thanks to the fantastic oil and gas industry in the nearby Bass Strait providing mains gas to many Gippsland towns.
The two main living areas were easily kept toasty warm by the gas heaters, so much so they were usually set on the lowest minimum setting on most winter days.
Gas Bills were very modest, as were the electricity bills as it wasn’t powering that much. Back in the days when a modest pay check could afford a comfortable lifestyle.
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Living in the hills east of Melbourne, I’ve experienced 5 blackouts this year (3 of these caused by trees falling on to power lines, other 2 unknown causes). 5 years ago l had no power for a week after a massive windstorm swept through the area. Having gas, at least l could indulge in flagrant luxuries such as boiling water and cooking food.
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You understand why in rural/regional areas there are LPG tanks outside of most houses connected (at a minimum) to a gas cook top. I use mine only for cooking and a 45 kg bottle will last almost three years.
The microwave oven does get reasonable use.
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Wooden telephone poles transitioned to wooden electricity poles more than a hundred years ago in Melburne. We still call them telephone poles. And we still have them! A ditch witcher and a cable and no dead trees in the ground to feed the termites and be replaced.
It’s another curse of governments spending on the wrong things. Perth has been putting all the power lines underground, 1/3 state government, 1/3 power company and 1/3 council.
Travelling the world, I have only seen such things in impoverished states and countries.
When power lines are underground, trees can fall without causing blackouts. Branches too. And the place looks so much better.
The Governments does not need $100Million a year on tree trimming, as in Victoria according to the head of Citipower. It’s another scam, most inside the city limits ripping the heart out of the trees where no fires can happen anyway, so money for nothing. Like firemen on diesel trains for 50 years.
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Our betters have the hide to call us a first world country, when you look at the state of our roads, rail system and wooden power poles everywhere, we are just ahead of Zimbabwe.
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As bad as it is now, think how much worse it will be with more EVs added to the grid.
This is insane.
Where are the scientists and engineers (and psychologists) to speak out against this madness?
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One of our regular correspondents assures us that EVs can easily be handled
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Don’t be silly. We all know from these “correspondents” that the whole of Australia can be powered easily and economically using unicorn farts and dragon’s breath. Get with the program
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EVs?
This bloke has some “advice”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlJtl-ssaJ0
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Lance says…
I agree. It’s like my domestic water supply.
This situation is easy to comprehend. A 20ft high water tank feeds my property. Nominally, 8 p.s.i. should be fine to run a shower but as soon as someone wants a kitchen sink of water to wash up, the shower pressure falls to a dribble because I only ran inch poly pipe between the tank and the house. 25 m and a few bends cripples the effective dynamic flow rate. I have a roll of inch and a half lying around but replacing all the fittings is expensive and Mrs K will call me a Bar-steward if I run the excavator through the garden right now so, I will run an entirely separate new line to supply only the bathroom and leave all the existing inch pipes untouched. It will be a longer run down the boundary fence but would have zero fittings (except the ends).
Au faces a similar reconstruction project if it wants to increase its grid carrying capacity. It would be cheaper to build a new gas-fired power station outside Sydney and run a separate EV grid around the suburbs.
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In Stratford Victoria, they installed a double charging station for EV’s, it is next to the Park. (so, they can play on the swings; while charging) Only problem was the electrical supply to this small country town isn’t good enough to run them, so they installed a diesel generator and put it behind the pub to run it. I assume it’s hidden out of sight, so those warm and fuzzy EV drivers don’t know they’re using Diesel to run their cars.
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Without new coal, gas, nuclear or real hydro (not SH2) power stations, where is the electricity going to come from? (And ongoing closure and destruction of coal power stations.)
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There is no economic value in owning a BEV unless you are able to make your own power (or at least store energy on the solar sharer scheme). Charging stations are already up to 50c/kWh, which is equivalent to $2/litre for gasoline when used in a hybrid.
The sensible time to charge a BEV now is the middle of the day when rooftops are doing their best but how many people are in a position to charge their vehicle in the middle of the day.
A typical roadhouse fuel station transfers power at about 20MW average (480MWh/day). To match that, an electric charging station would need a solar array of 500MW and a battery rated at 1GWh. So each roadhouse could be replaced with a solar/battery farm at a cost of around $1bn and then have “free” energy. Average cost of power over a 20 year life would be 57c/kWh. Equivalent to $2.28/litre gasoline used in a hybrid. And the 57c/kWh does not include any taxes that doubles the cost of fuel from what it would be without all the taxes.
A solar powered roadside charging point would be competitive with a diesel powered charging point providing security issues could be resolved.
Copilot informs me that NRMA fast charging points cost between 74c to 83c/kWh. On that basis, pumping diesel into my turbo diesel at $3/lite is a steal.
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Australia’s primary energy requirement was 6.5E18 joules in 2025. After spendings hundreds of billions on grid wind, solar and batteries they added 0.2E18 joules to the NEM in 2025.
Let me point out that spending hundreds of billions to produce 3.1% of Australia’s primary energy over the last two decades is not conducive to high productivity.
Some people are thinking that adding Snowy 2 to the grid will boost “renewable” generation. What many have not realised is that Snowy 2 is an energy sink not a producer of energy.
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As a battery SH2 has a maximum generation capacity of 2.2GW with 80% round trip efficiency. Thus it will be a net drain on the grid of at least 440MW, almost half a smallish power station.
If the yearly output of SH2 was averaged over 24 hrs per day its average output would be a constant 88MW.
It doesn’t seem worth it for at least $12 billion, likely $20 billion and possibly $40 billion according to some estimates.
An aeroderivative gas turbine generator such as the GE LMS100 can produce around 116 MW.
It costs US$35 million to $55 million per unit plus installation. It runs on natural gas or just about any liquid hydrocarbon.
Plus it has a minimal footprint and no destruction of wilderness areas.
It would have been the better deal.
At contract natural gas prices in Australia for 2025-2026, running a GE LMS100 at full load it costs approximately $12,000 to $13,500 per hour in fuel.
If $12 billion were invested in a saving account at 4.5% it would generate around $61,643 per hour and if in an index fund around $109,589 per hour.
SH2 is economic madness.
220
At an operating cost of $13,500 per hour and a power output of 116MW the cost translates to approximately 11.6c per kWh in fuel cost only.
Using a lifespan of such a generator of 20 years, 80% capacity factor and total cost $60 million the capital cost adds 0.37c to the price per kWh.
Adding finance at 7% over 20 years would add and additional 0.69c to the per kWh rate.
So total cost is 11.6 + 0.37 + 0.69 = 12.66c per kWh. Plus add utility profit margin.
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While I cannot locate the actual article, I believe that the Snowy 2 efficiency has been calculated by the Authority as initially lower than 80%, and decreasing over time as the water tunnels scour.
Also the $40bn cost included the 1000 kms of additional transmission lines required at their current cost of $13m/km.
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The pipes are at 25° which must limit round trip efficiency but less than I originally thought.
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G4, they are AI answers. They are consistent with previous reading.
00
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Thanks for the figures. Any link to the data source?
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Snowy Hydro 2?
Follow the “spillage”, as one should do for ALL “government jobs”.
10
People who cared to listen would have heard an excited PM Turnbull explaining that Snowy 2.0 pumped hydro pumping power would be supplied when wind turbine supply was not needed for the grid, admission that wind does not always blow or at the required times of day or night. Therefore for so called renewables vested interests Snowy 2.0 is another sales for profit opportunity.
30
Australia long ceased progressing and is regressing in just about every conceivable way.
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The point now being pushed hard by the new Leader and Deputy Leader, and relevant Shadow Ministers, Angus Taylor and Matt Canavan of the Liberal National/LNP Coalition parties.
They are saying that everything needed is already available in Australia including the locked away wealth of the abundance of minerals and energy, educated population, generally very good weather conditions all year around, etc.
And they both earlier when holding the portfolio of Minister for Energy said similar things, and can be read in Ministerial Media Releases and National Press Club addresses.
20
They said things. Did they do anything about them? Appears not.
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This is great news. We need more of this. Only when the (sometimes deliberately) ignorant public feel real pain do they pay any real attention and respond. How many conversations have we had with people where they are deliberately disinterested in the realities of electricity generation in this country? Bring it on.
161
It turns out that the bloke who installed my solar panels gets a rate of 40c per kW hour for his feed in tariff. Special rates for those in the industry apparently. Anyone else hear of this? He is not on the original high tariff from years ago as he is only young.
100
I can’t understand how our Govts are so stupid, but surely these dumb Victorian Labor and Green pollies will lose the next election in November?
If not Victoria is finished and anyone buying an EV is as dumb as the their stupid Vic government.
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As Jo’s link explains: Thousands flee Vicdanistan’s ghettos for sunny Queensland… creating a real estate boon – or was it a boom – as cheap, cold, inner-city caves become affordable (if not unliveable).
I take it Neville Shute’s book, On The Beach, isn’t taught in schools nor the film aired in ‘higher education’ lecture halls: perhaps talk of submarines has been banned as has natural gas.
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Yes, thousands of mainly ex Melbournians are migrating to other more prosperous states such as Queensland and also Western Australia, and unfortunately they are bringing their failed socialist ideologies with them and try to implement these failed systems in to their new abodes, much like overseas migrants can bring bad habits and predigest beliefs with them.
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The same thing is apparently happening in California.
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FWIW
“Here and there”
https://vtdigger.org/2021/02/24/stratton-town-report-cover-draws-attention-for-all-the-wrong-reasons/
00
No Neville,
If the grid collapses they will blame Trump or coal & fossil fuels anyone but themselves and their self destruction of the grid.
They will not learn even if they are tossed out.
An the coalition if they scrape over the election line, will not have the balls to fix it for fear of being a 1 term government – they are not even talking/promising to fix the grid for fear of upsetting the middle conservative/left leaners!
God, they still can’t even tell you what a woman is!!!
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Wait and soon hear the Treasurer report on his latest Budget Plan for next financial year beginning July 2026, 2026/2027 Budget Plan.
The Iran defence objective and results from shipping hold up and oil-gas supply, said to be twenty (20) percent of global demand, will replace the Russia-Ukraine war as a major excuse for fiscal recklessness, budget out of control.
20
” will not have the balls to fix it for fear of being a 1 term government – they are not even talking/promising to fix the grid for fear of upsetting the middle conservative/left leaners!”
Exactly! They are no alternative to Labor at all, just half the Uniparty. I’ll bet they would do nothing about the unions either, derailing Australia for 70years now!
00
NEVER mistake outright malice for “stupidity”.
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If the voltage drops, you draw more current to do the same job (V-IR) But remember you pay by the current not by the voltage so is this a win for the electric companies and another hit to the consumers?
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You think for the same load dropping the voltage makes more current flow?
You pay by energy consumed, not current.
90
Maybe you are right but its not my understanding of how a electricity meter works. The more current you draw the faster the rota spins and the more you have to pay. The resistance of your appliance doesnt change with a voltage drop so to do the same work the appliance needs to draw more current … hence motors burn out (as mentioned above when voltage drops)
31
Our electricity meters record usage as power, not current.
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Lower grid voltage means more I²R losses in transmission lines and transformers. The utility loses.
There is a consumer cost for certain appliances like electric motors because running at lower than designed voltages causes overheating and premature burnout.
You are billed for energy used, Watts = VI over time kWh. It doesn’t matter if voltage drops, current increases but the overall energy consumed and paid for will be the same.
For resistive loads if the voltage drops the current also drops and the appliance does less work if the resistance remains constant, I=V/R. Less energy is consumed and less billed for but less work is done.
For constant power loads (motors, many electronics), a voltage drop forces the device to draw more current to perform the same amount of work but the energy consumed is the same. However the low voltage condition may be harmful to the appliance and it will operate less efficiently meaning it might use more billable energy to do the same job (e.g. take longer).
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So it was a clever move to drop the standard domestically-supplied voltage from a nominal 240 Volts to 230 Volts?
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They didn’t change the voltage or any transformers, they just changed the nominal voltage from 240V to 230V and increased the tolerance to accommodate 240V. The new nominal voltage is 230V +10%/-6% allowing for voltage drops down to 216V and voltages up to 253V. Nothing in practice changed. The old standard of 240V +6%/-6% (226V – 254V) is almost fully accommodated within the change .
30
So, what they were PREPARING for was an across the board increase in usage, coupled with ZERO upgrades to capacity.
Makes about as much sense as anything, these days.
00
We shouldn’t refuse to use electricity just because reticulation investment hasn’t kept up with demand. Much better than importing environmentally unsustainable product from an geopolitically unstable part of world.
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Why does anyone actually need a power grid these days. All they need is a few solar panels and a battery and no need for the grid. Cheap as chips and free energy for life. A few more panels and the BEV offers free transport.
The Sun does not have to pass through the Strait of Hormuz.
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RickWill:
I take it you are reffing to those off-grid. So they will miss out on the Government ‘subsidises’ for batteries (unless they allow the public access to your power).
So you will have to pay full price for those panels, along with replacements. Also, what are the costs of electrical work setting up the change, along with all the permits needed.
30
It hard to tell if you’re being facetious or serious. Given your regular promotion of solar I lean to you being serious.
Not cheap for the average persons needs. A realistic setup budget for a house that requires electricity for heating / cooking / hot water is $30k-$40k. Unless you go for a 12v system where you don’t have to comply with a lot of stuff and do your own install.
I’m sure you’ll dispute that. But for a genuine decent family home setup, professionally installed, it’s not cheap to setup.
The battery subsidy is making it cheaper temporarily. Get your neighbours to pay for your system. Great 🙁
No. At best it’s free for the life of the equipment. Not for your life ….. unless you don’t have long left.
The initial setup cost is not free so the production of electricity is not free.
Once you do that initial setup, you then have to start putting money aside each year to budget for the replacement costs. That’s $2k each year so in 20 years you have another $40k sitting there to replace everything.
A lot more panels and a wopping generator.
…
What I like about being off grid is.
1. Have not had a blackout in the whole time we’ve had it. Over 3 years. On grid we had multiple blackouts, short and long duration.
2. Electricity bills are going up for on grid but I’m immune to that immediate increase. (hopefully when it comes time to replace our equipment technology improvements will have reduced costs to do so)
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I was doing Labor maths.
They say there is an idiot born every second. I think Australia punches above its weight in that regard because we also import a lot.
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Doh! Your usual positivity toward solar sucked me in. 🙂
I guess I’m one of the idiots that was born here.
20
My original comment was directed at Labor, Green and Teal voters who believe anything they are told unless POTUS Trump says it.
I do relentlessly push rooftop solar, household batteries and electrification because it is the fastest way for sensible people to collapse the grid and get a One Nation government with all the UN stooges looking for new jobs.
There is 26 years of going backwards to undo. It will not happen overnight. So there is time to get a return on investment. And when coal fired generation gets the top priority, electricity will be much lower cost and even BEVs may actually make economic sense.
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‘$30k-$40k.’ That really is cheap as chips, when you consider what people make on selling their houses.
So, do you sell the house you bought for $800k a decade back for $1.5million now, and downsize seeing the kids have left home so you can dump some of the $700k ‘profit’ you made on solar and batteries?
00
Simon there is a very easy fix for your unreliable, toxic W & S rubbish. Just use our very cheap, reliable brown coal and stop destroying our environments every 15 to 20 years.
A big win for our energy security and also a very big win for our national security as well.
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It’s not the user refusing to use the supply. The root of the problem is the other way around. It’s the supply that is refusing the user.
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Simon, given that only 20% of energy is used to generate electricity, what do we use to replace the other 80% of energy that is obtained by fossil fuels? Over 7000 products are created from fossil fuels, so what can we use to replace all these products that are considered essential for modern living?
40
While this was entirely predictable, no Labor government ever admits its policies are wrongheaded.
They’ll ‘reform’, or ‘make adjustments’, ‘review’ or ‘take up recommendations’, to spin this disaster, but they’ll never say publicly, “Well, that was stupid.”
Labor have been in government for so long, they cannot blame the Liberals. It will be interesting to see who they DO blame… and it will probably be citizenry for using too much electricity simultaneously.
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Howard started the rot way back in 2000. He embedded the carbon hating legislation and the consumer theft through the electricity grid. Turnbull commissioned the Finkel enquiry that accelerated the path to de-industrialisation and added wealth to his family.
So Labor are not solely to blame for the current mess. It has taken 26 years to get to this point and there have been different flavours of UN stooges.
The only sensible option is to vote One Nation.
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Never forget that the reason we’re given for changing to the unreliable, expensive W & S rubbish is that the weather today is more extreme and dangerous than in the recent past.
But Dr John Christy’s recent study has found that the US temperature extremes have declined since 1899 and also challenging assumptions about increasing heatwaves.
And we also know that global deaths from all extreme weather events have declined by 98% over the last 100 years. See OWI Data and also from Dr Pielke jr.
So why can’t these loonies look up the data and learn to think?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2026/04/21/new-paper-finds-u-s-temperature-extremes-have-declined-since-1899-challenging-assumptions-about-increasing-heatwaves/
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Their Masters haven’t told them to.
30
I have a friend who sold properties he and his partner owned in Victoria and moved to Queensland after the first Covid lockdowns – it was not an easy move at the time. They were able to buy a new spec built home in a canal estate in northern Brisbane but not with a water frontage. They also bought a larger block in the same location and set about building a new home that suited their needs better. More room for parking toys.
I now figure their net worth is about double what it would be if they had stayed in Victoria.
Victoria – The Basket Case State.
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I’ve just checked the Wiki countries’ capacity factors for W & S again and Aussie W CF is still 24% average and S average CF is still 15%.
Anyone can easily understand that unreliable, expensive rubbish like W & S isn’t worth the pain and must lead to extreme problems and blackouts etc in the future for Australia’s energy grid.
The replacement costs every 15 to 20 years will be horrendous and yet our governments refuse to listen.
W & S also destroys the environment, yet our governments couldn’t care less.
120
Standby for more attempts to cut up the furniture to keep the Australia’s neo-feudal aristocracy warm. They have captured the courts, the unions, the universities and the media. The opposition doesn’t even know they have been thrown off the speeding train.
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Well this problem should be addressed to those in government advocating for electricity only usage. It would involve installation of auto-tap changing transformers in the lower voltage distribution network (11kV downwards). If it is local only issue in the 415V final distribution network due to momentary loads causing overload then it is not able to be compensated without a total rework of the distribution network ie means installing larger capacity transformers, protection equipment and maybe even he size of overhead/underground transmission cables.
It’s the same issue with increasing numbers of EV users needing to charge cars at home – such loads were not designed into the distribution network. If there was 100% EV take up the problems would/will be enormous.
I assume Mr Bowen and his Green supporters have included for such upgrades in his state government support / budget planning for phase out of gas being replaced with intermittent renewable generation and the take up of EV vehicles. Yeah right!
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You think this year is bad….2027 a disaster….failing states etc…plus the War june/july 2027. These are the good times 2026.
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I’ll say it yet again. If we ever get to the endpoint of the renewable grid, which is probably technically possible, we will discover that it is so vast, so complex, so unreliable, so expensive and will require so many patches for corrections such as the dodgy voltages mentioned in the post, that we will know for certain we should have gone nuclear.
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And forever more expensive removal and replacement of very location scattered far and wide across countryside and hills within and up to 20-25 year cycles.
The estimated cost of removing one wind turbine reported in 2024, subject to access to location and distance, $500,000 to $700,000 per unit.
And then the big decision for the shareholders, assuming they did not walk away and leave stranded assets erected and owned by a private company structure with no other assets, if replacement could be commercially viable, funds invested again and return on funds invested worth the risk.
One of the oldest installations in Australia, Codrington Wind Farm in Victoria, owners announced in 2025 that it will be closed down soon, they will remove the wind turbines and make good the area, but they do not intend to re-invest.
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Not the way the shuttered wind systems in Australia have been shut down. The procedure seems to be remove the tower and turbine for scrap, then ditch the blades in the surrounding scrub. Finally, just walk away, leaving the base in place.
10
“we should have gone nuclear.”
Why, we don’t have to ‘go’, it seems ‘nuclear’ will be coming to us next year…
10
.. and the last departed-pre-war oil tanker arrives at its destination in a week.
Lessee what happens then in renewables fantasy world then…
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PM and entourage on the way
20
A high quality comments thread. Thank you!
I can see there are a lot of electrical engineers here. 🙂
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WePlanet polling shows opposition to nuclear energy at its lowest point on record
New polling commissioned by WePlanet Australia shows support for nuclear energy is rising, while opposition has fallen to its lowest level on record. Just 27% of Australians now oppose nuclear power, with support at 44% and a significant 29% still undecided. This highlights a major shift in public sentiment as energy costs and reliability concerns grow.
The fuel crisis is highlighting to the public the importance of energy security, creating a major opportunity for the nuclear energy cause to have an impact.
A notable change is being driven by younger Australians. Among 18–34 year olds, nuclear enjoys the strongest backing of any age group, with net support reaching +32 points. This marks a clear generational shift, with younger voters increasingly open to nuclear as part of Australia’s energy mix.
30
That’s because that age group hasn’t been subjected to the relentless anti nuclear propaganda older age groups have been on the end of all their lives.
They’ve been feed the ruinables garbage and “we’re all going to fry” propaganda, but not the anti nuke stuff, so that when you make a pro nuclear argument that don’t have a visceral knee jerk negative reaction to the argument, and actually assess it fairly rationally.
10
I see a great investment opportunity for diesel powered generators. Oh, wait, no diesel? But the fuel supply is easier and quicker restored to functioning than the grid.
20
Townsville put on a good show for ANZAC commemoration at the football tonight.
Lavarack Brks is the home of the 2nd Cavalry who looked splendid with their emu plumes in their hats and also being the home of the band the bugler and singer of the two anthems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnFzCmAyOp8
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Am I the only person to see these undervoltage episodes as likely quite intentional?
When a grid is close to collapse, dropping the voltage can be used to cause “smart” equipment to switch off and thus control demand.
Knowing how the green blob mind thinks, we know they will be planning to use this to prevent total outages, by controlling demand. Indeed, I suspect that all new equipment will have some requirement to turn itself off at a minor voltage drop … precisely so they can control demand.
Which means that when buying new appliances I need to plan for them to continue working during periods of deliberately induced low-voltage (presumably area by area).
That suggests that the “requirement” to stop working when under voltage will be enforced on heavy demand “background operating” equipment such as heating/cooling and fridges. The next target will be electrical equipment whose failure might be noticed, like ovens. And, if they are really desperate they will enforce a lower switch off voltage for Kettles, TVs, computers and other entertainment.
20
We used to call these dips, brown brownouts.
00