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Dr. Li-Meng Yan claims The virus is man-made and spread to make damage

Dr Li-Meng Yan worked in the WHO Coronavirus Reference Lab in Hong Kong. She has just published a detailed paper claiming that the SARS-2 coronavirus was artificially made in a laboratory and appeared on Tucker Carlson’s show today.  She also claims it was deliberately spread (though this was slightly ambiguous– listen closely).

We already had enough evidence to know that SARS-Cov2 is a likely bioweapon. (The virus it supposedly evolved from appears to be fake.) This is largely what her paper covers.

 Chinese defector virologist Dr Li-Meng Yan publishes report claiming COVID-19 was made in a lab

Phoebe Looms, News.com

Dr Yan had been working at Hong Kong University’s public health laboratory sciences division, a World Health Organisation infectious diseases research centre, when her boss was asked to investigate the outbreak in Wuhan.

Dr Yan claimed her and her team’s scientific findings were suppressed, and they were told only to report cases linked to the Huanan seafood market. After becoming fearful of her safety, she fled China on a flight bound for Los Angeles in late April.

 Others in her lab said: “ Dr. Yan’s statement does not accord with the key facts as we understand them.”


,..

“It’s like its a cow has deer’s head, rabbits ear and monkey’s hand.”

“I work in the WHO Reference lab, the top lab in the world on coronavirus “

It was intentionally created, and spread to the world to make such damage.

Her twitter account has been suspended.

An act of war?

The claim that this was spread to inflect damage is new, though she offered no specifics and promised more evidence would come.

The deliberate release of a weapon that has already killed a million people would be an act of war. Her short speech raises more questions than answers. It’s easier to believe it was a malicious creation, but not necessarily deliberately released. It could have been an incompetent leak, by staff selling ex-lab animals to wet markets, followed by a deliberate and rushed cover up after-the-fact.

There is a big difference between leaks and lies, with post hoc malicious intent, and a full premeditated hostile attack.

Even in a leaked situation, there was undoubtedly willful negligence in the coverup.  The CCP and minions at the WHO played down the threat, said it was the flu, and harvested masks and PPE for the benefit of the CCP. Traffic out of Wuhan was only partly blocked — the CCP prevented people from spreading the virus to the rest of China, but not the rest of the world.

If it was a deliberate and hostile act, why was the virus released so close to the only P4 class lab in China? With careful planning, the virus could have been released practically anywhere in the world. And if it was pre planned, why did Dr. Shi Zhengli the “Batwoman of the Wuhan Institute of virology” not register the RaTG13 virus code — supposedly the nearest relative of SARS-Cov-2, until January 23rd? She had apparently discovered it 6 years earlier, and it had obvious potential  to target humans — which would make it a hot research item. And why did she forget to add in the non-coding mutations as well as the coding ones.

Why did the order go out to destroy and delete the data  and other viruses at the Wuhan lab on Jan 2nd? If a pandemic was planned from the get-go the trail of cover-ups didn’t have to be so loud, so late and so obvious. Though it’s possible that the “leak” may have been facilitated by a sub faction within the Chinese military or political eschelons, catching others off guard.

Hypothetically — if the virus had to be released on home ground first, the CCP would want the cover of “an accident” to justify it to their own people. It’s easy to imagine the effect on the citizens of China if they thought they had been used as cannon fodder in a bioweapon war.

It might be easy to release the virus in Ethiopia or Brazil, but releasing the virus on home turf has the added benefit that the CDC and all foreign inspectors can be kept away for a while, and the CCP can control the message about the virus (it’s mostly mild and treatable and came from a wet-market — that sort of thing). This is all mere conjecture at this point. Incompetence with coverup still seems a very appealing theory.

The cover up seems to be so brazenly obvious it’s hard to believe it was planned to look that way. Though Plausible Deniability is the Chinese CCP way — where naked political threats are often thinly disguised as tariff battles. Where, ships held up in port are subject to vague environmental restrictions at inconvenient times, and where there are arrests which look so obviously like a hostage gambit. The CCP might be happy to project an image of conquering natural foes at home, while it also projects ambiguously dark and coded threats to foreign powers.

If this were a deliberate release it may backfire badly — as far as bioweapons go, SARS-2 could have been a lot nastier, and the world will be so much better prepared for the next pandemic. The element of surprise is over.. Meanwhile the West is shifting manufacturing back to  domestic factories and sorting out the supply lines for essential drugs and fuel. That can’t be good for China. The whole world has skated dangerously close to “ganging up” against China, and no one wants to be dependent on China if they don’t have to be. That would have to be the last thing China would want.

As a weapon currently, SARS-2 is quite an effective Goldilocks mix to hobble competitors — it’s not so nasty that the world stopped the flights and stamped it out. Nor is it so nice that politicians can ignore it.

But China knows the virus better than anyone, and it keeps doing everything in its power to stop the virus from spreading.

What does the CCP know?

Bottom line: The artificial nature of Covid is hard to argue against. The details around its emergence may never be known. If I were betting I’d put money on incompetence and cover-ups. But there are serious questions to be asked about Gain of Function research, and why the West was funding it in China.

____________

Previous posts

The first Synthetic Pandemic? Man who discovered HIV says Coronavirus is man made. CCP destroyed the evidence.

Evidence grows that Coronavirus was man-made: the bat virus it “evolved” from appears to be faked

h/t Scott of the Pacific, Orson

REFERENCE

Limen Yan (2020) Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route,   September 2020, DOI:  10.5281/zenodo.4028829,  Project:  COVID-19

 

 

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Rating: 8.9/10 (66 votes cast)
Dr. Li-Meng Yan claims The virus is man-made and spread to make damage, 8.9 out of 10 based on 66 ratings

130 comments to Dr. Li-Meng Yan claims The virus is man-made and spread to make damage

  • #
    Gordon

    Okay. But what are we the lay people to make of this? There are other scientists that claim it is just a natural thing that happened.

    50

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    In terms of China, there seems little reason not to set a default adversary relationship, and assume, if not the worst, that China will
    aggressively pursue its own self interest, and not operate within what most of the world understands as reasonable rules for international interaction.
    It is certainly the case that their participation in any international organization “for the common good” is suspect.

    There is little downside to pushing China away. If they are the peace loving people they wish us to see them as, they will take steps to improve the relationship
    with others that builds trust, if they are who some of us think they are they will remove the iron fist from the velvet glove that has not hidden it well.

    Even if the virus escaped by accident, the response has been sufficiently close to an act of war against the world cause a major re-calibration or relations….
    and as such seem to be revealing who has and has not been on the Chinese payroll.

    341

    • #
      Jojodogfacedboy

      Your so right.
      Many of our politicians have the “Slick Willie” routine down pat where what they say is not necessarily what they do.

      150

      • #
        PeterS

        Yes it appears the Slick Willie attribute is rampant here in Australia. I wonder if it’s because Australians are so lay back they don’t care about politics in general, and when they do they more often than not talk as though their brains are switched off. Witness the saga over how PM Morrison kept on beating his chest over how wonderful we are reducing our emissions to meet and beat certain targets with very little criticism from much of the public. Now the gas saga where price gouging is rife on the east coast and nothing is being done about in spite of it apparently being illegal according to some. I’m convinced we in Australia have a long way to go before the penny drops and we get political leaders to act in the interest of our nation and not just in the interest of their careers by speaking with forked tongue.

        240

        • #
          Jojodogfacedboy

          What can you do?
          The politicians have the police as enforcers to policies now.
          By law, it is illegal what they are currently doing and the police are paid by our government and have ignored many laws broken by our politicians.
          Now, the police are paid enforcers to our governments.

          150

          • #
            el gordo

            PM Morrison acted decisively because our intelligence people told him that SARS was manufactured in a lab and so is Covid.

            How would Albo have handled it? Be grateful for small mercies.

            81

            • #
              PeterS

              Yes that’s true. I hate to think how much worse things would be under ALP+Greens. I have the same fear for the US if Biden becomes President.

              100

              • #

                The key question is why didn’t the US Medical Swamp and Spy agency warn Trump.

                I knew by late Jan what was probably coming just by watching the Twitter feed from China. So it should have been obvious to anyone who was looking.

                The only question left at that point was whether there was some genetic or other risk that was greater in China than elsewhere. By late Feb the infections were up in Iran and spreading to Italy and that question was answered. For people with access to the Diamond Princess Data the answers were available earlier.

                171

      • #

        Never pay attention to what a politician says, only pay attention to what they have done, what they have committed to do in writing and who they surround themselves with.

        Only ideologues and the gullible blindly believe what any politician says, especially when confirmation bias can be applied.

        210

    • #
      Geoff Croker

      The current virus is the fourth one. They will eventually get it to a potency whereby it is a non-defensible contagion.

      What is our response?

      60

      • #
        Geoff Croker

        The Chinese vaccine may also cover the next release of their virus. Its excellent cover to get their population to accept a mass inoculation program for a “legitimate” reason. If so, they are getting ready to take us all on in a kinetic war. Taiwan comes to mind.

        40

  • #
    AZ1971

    That can’t be good for China. The whole world has skated dangerously close to “ganging up” against China, and no one wants to be dependent on China if they don’t have to be. That would have to be the last thing China would want.

    Except China doesn’t care.

    It is poised to become the world’s largest economy within 5 years yet ostensibly refuses to give up its treasured “developing nation” status. How can they possibly argue both to be true? It engages in the most egregious abuses of human rights on the planet, has institutionalized intellectual property theft as a precondition of foreign manufacturing, implemented social credit as a means of controlling citizen behavior and thoughts, and sees humans as expendable.

    I would put absolutely NOTHING past the CCP’s willingness to do anything necessary to become the sole world power.

    370

    • #
      RichardX

      I would put absolutely NOTHING past the CCP’s willingness to do anything necessary to become the sole world power.

      I agree with you and I think that that’s where normal western folk are handicapped in evaluating the CCP’s actions. Civilised people cannot believe that anyone could be so evil that they’d do XYZ, therefore they reject suggestions that the CCP has done something unutterably evil. That’s where they make a big mistake. For the CCP the unutterably evil is quite acceptable. Standard practice.

      90

    • #
      Deano

      I do hope it doesn’t come to this but by behaving despicably, China has set the bar very low with regards to how the rest of the world should treat them. But I still believe President Xi is using the fear of external threats to rally his population behind him. He knows the label “Made in China” is now a big liability and their huge export economy will be damaged.

      40

  • #
    Lowell from Seattle

    This virus had 1) Code from bats 2) Code from Pangolins (Changed so that non essential code looked random), code from other corona virus that specifically targets humans. So code from three divergent lines somehow combines! This looks like it is man made as opposed to natural where you would be able to show where it exists in nature. I would be willing to change my opinion if someone could show where this stitched together virus existed in nature.

    The people that have been writing the papers saying this is not man made are the same people that do Gain Of Function GOF experiments. Their bread and butter goes away if people start banning this type of research. Worse for them they could be blamed for this if we start looking for the guilty.

    I suspect that the virus got lose from their lab in Wuhan. At best if was a GOF experiment gone wrong. At that point the CCP were willing to do anything to make sure that they were not the only ones suffering. If their economy was going to suffer they were going to make sure that the western economies suffered.

    281

    • #
      Jojodogfacedboy

      Brings to question…Why did the virus outbreak start there with the lab close by?
      Why not anyplace else in this wide world?
      The explanation of eating bats right at that exact location as they have samples of this virus makes China’s statement very suspect.

      71

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        I’ve heard more than enough credible people say that bats were never sold at those wet markets. They are fish markets. The bats in question live 600km to the north of that location.

        While the lab may have had the bat virus on location, the bats themselves were nowhere near the place.

        210

      • #
        Yonniestone

        As stated above the CCP will do anything to become the apex superpower, if the virus release wasn’t accidental then the CCP used their own soil as a stage to show the world a performance that would cause enough fear and panic amongst countries that they would destroy their own economies while China waits to strike.

        Consider the release location of P4, the excuse of a wet market, disturbing videos of people falling dead in public, heavy handed police tactics, details of virus deaths kept secret, a large sulphur cloud detected earlier over Wuhan, now IF this is a staged campaign with actual Chinese sacrificed for the cause then it will be the greatest peacetime attack in living memory.

        60

    • #
      Ian George

      The original covid virus was found in bats hundreds of kms away from Wuhan and taken to the lab around 2012. It probably accidentally escaped from the lab. China’s response to the investigation by WHO was not to allow it to investigate the lab. Speaks volumes, eh?
      And when the virus began spreading – well, why let a good pandemic go to waste. Notice how China has become more belligerent lately.

      210

      • #
        el gordo

        Beijing was developing this WMD as a first strike weapon, now we have cornered the rat and its turning nasty.

        The inquiry will find that a disgruntled employee at the lab, a young frustrated social misfit, released the virus into the fish market. The Five Eyes already knew the biosecurity at the Wuhan lab was slack and raised a red flag last year, but the lone actor struck first.

        Its only a Claytons War, mostly old people died, but it was hugely disruptive to the capitalist system around the world. So reparations are in order and Oz should accept nothing less that a continental bullet train network at their expense.

        91

        • #
          Serp

          Good luck finding a group independent of the CCP to build it.

          Confiscation of assets and expulsion of agents is the minimal start position on reparations.

          60

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Sure bat are made of Willow, but why dwell on the fact that bats are man made?

        10

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        The Chinese were just jealous of our fine Willow bats. Any leader would have promoted research into bats. No brainer.

        00

    • #
      jelly34

      Don’t forget about Dr Faucci’s hand in this.He gave the Wuhan labs 3.5 million dollars to further this”China Virus”

      160

    • #
      Technetium99

      Agree, and no-one is asking the fundamental question of where & how did the “furin linkage’ occur in Covid…the natural narrative is badly flawed abd easy to discredit from a genomic analyses perspective….’nothing to see here ‘….go figure…

      20

    • #
      Guy

      Can you (Lowell from Seattle) explain what you mean by saying that the virus had code from bats & pangolins?

      Do you mean that the virus is alleged to have infected bats & pangolins, but probably did not if it was synthesised in the Wuhan lab? How can the virus “have code” from these species?

      00

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    All this virus stuff is way above my pay grade.
    I do believe our governor of the Great Left Coast State of Washington panicked. Search-up Life Care Center of Kirkland; in the governor’s backyard, so to speak. He and other officials made colossal mistakes.
    He was running for President of the USA last year on the one-legged platform of CO2/Climate Change when he should have been engaging in real concerns of the State – like health care. Recall, state resident Bill Gates has beat the pandemic drum for years. Jay was AWOL.
    This week, Jay Inslee (the Democrat governor) has returned to the media pushing Climate Change as the cause of wildfires. He needs to recognize the forestry management and fuel issue – something the State can actually do something about. Best to let others, Victoria or the UK, lead the world on climate issues.
    – – winking smiley face – – Poe’s Law

    140

  • #
    Michael Hammer

    There are many reasons to be suspicious of the origin of Covid 19, but let me add one more. China’s response to calls for an enquiry have bordered on the hysterical. If the virus really is natural in origin, what have they to fear? Why the hysterical, over the top response? Me think they do protest too much! But now consider the military posturing of China of late, it is hardly doing them much good since, as has been pointed out, it is driving businesses and foreign populations away from China and risking the entire world ganging up on China. They have destroyed world trust in China. Could they win a war against the rest of the world? I seriously doubt it, they could of course inflict incredible damage but their country would be utterly devastated in return. Even if they did, by some miracle, win how would that benefit them? They were well on the way to being the manufacturing capital of the world and thereby the most influential country in the world and they have seriously damaged if not destroyed that. Do they think they can set up a world government and keep the entire world enslaved? Seems to be incredibly far fetched and anyway how would it benefit them?

    So why do something so stupid? There is a possible reason. By their military posturing they are deflecting attention away from an investigation into the source of covid and trying to intimidate others from pursuing such an investigation. If true, they are doing intense harm to themselves to avoid the investigation, and that means they fear an even worse possible outcome. The only worse outcome I can see is that it is discovered that Covid had human assistance in its creation and the rest of the world demands reparations (eg: other countries confiscating Chinese assets in their countries) so severe that China would be destroyed economically.

    I doubt China created and released this virus deliberately. I even doubt China produced this virus as a deliberate bioweapon. I do think it possible that China produced the virus as part of a research program, with possibly laudable goals but that it escaped through inadequate bio security.

    91

    • #
      William Astley

      In reply to:

      “I doubt China created and released this virus deliberately.”

      You miss the point. Completely. You cannot imagine a evil act by a country. That is the problem. In your mind, you have no idea how dangerous and powerful a country is that has no checks and balances and that was organized propaganda and complete control of the system.

      China is like a petri dish waiting for an evil thing to grow.

      The evidence unequivocally supports the assertion the covid virus has man made, not natural, created for a purpose and then released. It is now known by the US, that the release of the virus was not at the wildlife meat market. That was the cover story. The fact that there was a cover study which is standard procedure for clandestine activity is another piece of evidence. There are dozens of evidence.

      That explains why the virus attacks the throat for a week and then goes on to the lungs and other organs where it is very deadly. The covid virus highly infectious because of how it attacks the body.

      It is not possible politically or legally for any US or Western country to create and release covid. It is possible because there is no checks and balances in the Chineses symptom for that action to happen.

      100

  • #
    Konrad

    I believe most evidence points to an industrial accident involving a GoF study.

    The RNA sequence has been modified in a manner that rules out natural mutation. However the primary cell entry in Humans is the ACE2 receptor, which makes an intentional Chinese bioweapon very unlikely.

    My assessment, as with Lowell above, is that after an industrial accident and initial attempts to contain failed, the Chinese government decided to spread the pain to the rest of the world, while minimizing the spread in China.

    Jo asks the critical question: “What does China know?” in regards their continuing extreme efforts to stop the spread in China.

    Two possibilities are likely: long term health effects in “survivors” may be a far greater concern than mortality rates. Second, the risk of bidirectional transmission of a manipulated zoonotic virus. Ie: recent outbreaks of swine and avian flu in China may be linked.

    For Australia the solution is still: suburb level sewage testing. Use-at-home paper antigen tests and early outpatient use of the anti-malarial and anti-parisite drugs. (The solution our politicians are refusing to use).

    If there are long term health effects such as male infertility, then the medical approach in Australia that does nothing to stop viral replication early in infection will be useless.

    113

  • #
    Robber

    On 9 July 2020 the World Health Organisation (WHO) appointed former NZ Prime Minster Clark as co-chair of a panel reviewing the WHO’s handling of the COVID-19 pandemic and the response of governments to the outbreak. The panel is to examine how the outbreak occurred and how future pandemics can be prevented. She serves in the role alongside former Liberian President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf. Anything to report?

    80

  • #
    Rick Kinsman

    Sadly, I give Dr Li-Meng Yan about a week before she is “disappeared.” She is to be greatly admired, and hopefully protected, for her bravery in the face of the almost certain attentions of the head-kickers of the CCP.

    180

  • #
    Another Ian

    Applicable to Twitter too?

    “I note in passing that we again have confirmation of the Facebook Inverse Truth Indicator: That Facebook banned crediting Antifa / BLM / DNC with the arson is confirmation that it is being done by Antifa / BLM / DNC followers… IMHO of course.”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/09/15/w-o-o-d-14-september-2020/#comment-132961

    120

  • #
    Salome

    “It’s like it’s a cow has deer’s head, rabbits ear and monkey’s hand.” O.K., so perhaps we’re looking at a platypus virus?

    81

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    There may be a double game going on here.
    First “shell”;is tell us what we likely already knew.
    Second, knowing how good the chinese security apparatus is, her “escaping” to the US is improbable….is the real game to goad the US into having a crack at china? If so the chinese are prepared for the US and likely have some game changing weaponry…..

    31

    • #
      Peter C

      An Own Goal by China then.

      Trump is having a crack at China by economic means (trade restrictions) and bring essential manufacturing back to the USA.

      80

    • #
      Gary Simpson

      Don’t be in any doubt that the U.S. also has some ‘game changing weaponry’.

      40

      • #
        PeterS

        Russians may be too so I wouldn’t say that the US have it all their way. For example, both are developing the next generation fighter planes that go into space. No doubt they are working on other advanced weaponry, such as particle beam weapons. The Pentagon said recently they are giving up on that sort of research. Does anyone really believe that?

        20

  • #
    David Maddison

    SARS-CoV-2 was likely a test-of-concept to test the West’s reaction and our technical and social ability to deal with it.

    Conclusions

    1) It is far more effective at destroying Western Civilisation than the lie of anthropogenic global warming ever was.

    2) Leftist politicians refuse to acknowledge the virus’ origin of China, let alone it being a bioweapon. They will happily protect China’s reputation for them.

    3) Leftist politicians will willingly destroy their own economies over an exaggerated threat.

    4) Leftist politicians will willingly remove human rights from their people and sometimes brutally so, the former-democracy of Victoria, Australia is a prime example. In Australia’s case it also demonstrates how weak our democracy really is. Few people knew how weak it was and how easy it was for a tyrant to take over.

    5) Leftist politicians will ban simple effective early stage treatments such as HCQ and prefer some big-pharma solution that the Elites are invested in. Such a vaccine may or may not be possible any time soon.

    6) The Sheeple are scarily easy to manipulate and utterly lack critical thinking skills. And can be made to believe anything.

    7) Democracy will not be saved by social media who are complicit with the Elites and censor on their behalf.

    SARS-CoV-3 will be weaponised and deadly and likely will be released after Trump wins the election as soon as China has a vaccine for its people or at least, the Elites.

    170

    • #
      Peter C

      The Sheeple are scarily easy to manipulate and utterly lack critical thinking skills. And can be made to believe anything.

      I think you are too pessimistic about the capacity of ordinary folk David. I agree with the reat.

      82

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      They’ve Won.

      A couple of “tells” from among the many.

      # the brutal treatment of a pregnant woman. Appalling.

      # Dan’s creation of the high rise incubators: we’re all in this together, until they all get it: get it?

      # denial for many of the natural right to spend precious moments with a loved one as the “pass on”. And this is called civilisation?

      And the ninth wave is about to break.

      KK

      102

  • #
    Plain Jane

    Taxpayers money from the USA was going to the lab in Wuhan that was doing bat Gain Of Function research that was no longer allowed in the USA. Possibly other countries taxpayers were funding research there, and in other labs around the world. As Jo blogged about, the chinese have researchers around the world gathering information from research institutions. Fauci in 2017 said there would be a pandemic during the Trump presidency, and he ought to know. I dont think we have a problem of this government vs that government. I think we might have a problem of the Sir Humphry Appleby’s of the world vs the common man. Any individual leader, president, prime minister etc, is usually just a temporary puppet for some group of people that keep them there for a short time. The people that spend decades in power but are un-elected, like Fauci and lots of staff of the UN, WHO etc are a group to be more feared and have interests more in common with each other than with a nation state. The first SARS might have been an earlier go at a pandemic, which takes power from the common people and their elected leaders, and gives it to un-elected beauracrats. There may be many more other virus in waiting if this one is not effective enough. There was the hole in the Ozone layer, Acid Rain, Global Warming, pandemics, all these things are destructive to the common people and build power for the priest class. As Jo says it would be easy once the virus was created to let it loose anywhere in the world. The timing seems to be just too good to disturb the Nov 2020 elections in the USA. China may have been used by the Sir Humphreys AKA “The International Community”, UN, EU, WHO etc to release the virus, remembering there was the world military games in Wuhan in Oct 2019, where it seems that it is likely participants did get CV-19 (but the articles online about a french girl getting sick at the games and later testing positive seems to have disappeared off he net) So the “Americans” for want of a better term, might have found it useful that the virus got loose in China. Chinese government might have made the best of the situation. Maybe it was an accidental leak, but Cov-19 is likely not an accidental creation. Cov-19 seems to be created to kill large numbers of people so the situation is deliberate regardless of the if Cov-19 got out by accident or design. The chinese government is possibly the patsy here to take the fall for whoever wanted it let out, possibly the people who part funded the lab and wanted the election in the USA disturbed. Once created in a lab it only takes a couple of staff members to let it loose so a BIG conspiracy is not needed once the thing exists. That fact that Cov-19 and other bioweapon viruses exist is the conspiracy, actually more than conspiracy, as money from common people, from multiple nations, was used to create it and similar entities that can then be used agaisnt the people that funded it. The un-elelected beauracrats and research department heads keep such research going for their own benefits. The situation of priests cutting the hearts out of lots of people on top of stone temples is an evil in the world. The creation and setting loose of this virus is a great evil in the world. While this may be a case of heads of governments of nation states attacking other nation states, I think it is more likely an international class of “priests” attacking the common man who they gain power off.

    100

    • #
      Plain Jane

      Tagamet was taken off the NSW market in September 2019, following the lead of their American counterparts. The reasons given were similar to those given later for chloroquine, nebulous health concerns that suddenly turn up after decades of the medication being safe. Supposedly a breakdown product, if famotidine is kept warm for too long, but that is, I believe, common with many medications that produce the same breakdown product if stored incorrectly. So I am guessing famotidine is possibly a good covid-19 treatment so was removed from USA supermarket shelves and Australia over the counter in pharmacies before the virus was let loose, so people could not easily treat themselves. Also I have heard that artemesia gardens are being pulled out by military in some countries. It might be a good idea to get supplies of anything that might be available as a covid treatment without prescription while we still can. If Ivermectin is taken off the veterinary market that will be proof positive that “they” are really out to get us. I have noticed in the last few months that when I got to buy my horse wormer that the word Ivermectin wont be listed on the ebay description or other online description the way it was only a few months ago so that Ivermectin in its veterinary uses is harder to google in for sale adds online.

      140

      • #
        Another Ian

        “so that Ivermectin in its veterinary uses is harder to google in for sale adds online.”

        See what happens if you use e.g. Duck Duck Go?

        50

        • #
          Plain Jane

          They have removed the word Ivermectin from the product description itself, and dont show the picture of the product where it says what the active ingredients are. Also harder to google, so duck duck go might help there. ebay australia brings up 3 products (dog heart worm tablets). The name for the commonest straight ivermectin wormer for horses is Equest. Nil offers of Equest on ebay, only Equest Plus, that also has praziquantal for tape worms. Equest was available on ebay.au a couple of months ago. I am just finding ivermectin harder to find.

          40

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Well said.

      70

  • #
    MrGrimNasty

    Unfortunately history tells us that the word of defectors isn’t always trustworthy.
    We still have dueling experts, some say natural possible, some say not.
    We’re no closer to the truth.

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      Unless she is lying about the code, which is easy for competing experts to check, she is just reiterating genomic information that’s been conclusive for months. This is not a natural virus.

      Her other claims are open to debate, and yes, there are forces inside and outside China that may want to provoke a war and a message of deliberate damage feeds that.

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    Penguinite

    Twitter was quick to “cancel” Li-Meng Yan and doubtless, Youtube won’t be far behind. No point in waiting for WHO to comment. Their superficial investigation team have already given up! After being stranded in Bejing for two weeks they went home. CCCP is never going to facilitate any meaningful inspection of Wuhan!
    Meanwhile, Dan’s “Ring of Steel” surrounds Melbourne restricting any movement from metro to country. Andrews will continue to spruik questionable death and mayhem data in order to keep Melburnians repressed and confused. The Natives will revolt!
    Reply Link. That 1981 movie “Escape from New York” doesn’t seem so much science fiction now!

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      David Maddison

      Dan Andrews’ “Ring of Steel” now surrounds Melbournistan. Just change the city and the date of this movie.

      https://youtu.be/ckvDo2JHB7o

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        Greg Cavanagh

        Wow, hasn’t that movie dated badly.
        I had to laugh when the boat exploded into fireworks sparkles when hit by a rocket launcher.

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        • #

          The Ring of steel is there to protect country folk. Should we keep them locked down or protect their freedom? Dan, for a change, is helping rural voters.

          The Victorian numbers are coming down faster than expected, as I predicted.

          Vic unknown source cases are rapidly declining as the experts finally get a grip on the clusters of spread. That’s an excellent sign. The Vic models didn’t take that into account, and the numbers will continue to fall faster than they projected. (Thank goodness).

          the most important questions now are about whether its worth aiming for the NSW level of constant small but continual pain, or going the extra weeks to get real freedom. It depends on how many extra weeks of lockdown it takes. It depends on how soon treatments will be available. And on how easy it is to avoid a small running caseload to break out to a big bad one, needing a dreaded, awful third lockdown, which no one wants. NSW has done better than expected. It partly also depends on whether NSW will get to zero (perhaps accidentally) as the weather warms, and then the whole of Australia can fly freely domestically with no internal borders (that has to be worth something?). I’m sympathetic to the idea that zero may be unworkable in the incompetent states of NSW and Vic. If a treatment is coming as soon as this summer, then getting to zero isn’t worth the pain. But if it takes another year, clearly we want full freedom, not the constant restrictions on large events and random school closures NSW is living under.

          And if we campaign for Vit D, HCQ, Ivermectin, Melatonin, Bromhexine etc etc etc. We have a smarter path to avoid lockdowns and morbidity. Especially if masks give some protection from symptomatic cases. Though we still don’t know if a small asymptomatic case gives protection a year later.

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            Sceptical Sam

            On HCQ, Bolsonaro has gone on record saying that studies show that almost 30% of deaths could have been avoided if Hudroxychloroquine had been prescribed early. (No mention of Zinc).

            https://youtu.be/uZmiTKoCb6I

            Will You-tube take him down?

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              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                The letter was written well over a month ago. On the 12th August 2020 to be precise.

                Has nobody seen a response from Dr Fauci? Has there been one. I’ve been following this pretty closely and if there has been, I’ve not seen it.

                Have the writers of the 12th August letter followed up with a “when can we expect a reply”, Dr Fauci? Have they released that request to the media?

                The standard response by the bureaucracy to one=off challenges like this in to ignore them. They usually go away. Hence follow-up is essential; along with public embarrassment of the non-responsive party.

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          • #

            Only the sick need to be quarantined. The sniffer dogs no one will talk about can make that happen and keep zero workable with no restrictions and life back to normal. Dogs at airports, bus terminals, shopping malls, aged care homes, meat works and on more detailed tours through any location that has had a case. If they find the smelliest then the rest will be traced. Why are the dogs not out and about in a big way now?
            Is it because people do not want the problem solved?

            The Victorian Lockdowns have worked exceptionally well. An 88% reduction in active cases from 7880 on 11/08/2020 to 947 at last count. 88% in just one month and one week. But this leads out along an exponential decay tail. Tracing as Jo has pointed out removes some of this non-linearity. Relaxing of restrictions before reaching zero puts it back. The dogs can linearise it again. Not going to zero also allows it to easily come back. Going to zero still has a danger of it quietly exploding. So rapid ongoing testing like what the dogs can do after elimination can catch the inevitable early enough to make the problem small and short lived. The dog sniff testing can go on for decades without crippling the economy.

            Shhh don’t mention the dogs.

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      David Maddison

      Melbournistan now has a “ring of steel”, just like Kabul.

      From Wikipedia as follows, just change the date, the placr Kabul to Melbournistan, and Afghan National Police to whatever Andrews’ private army, which he extracted from VicPol, now calls itself.

      Ring of Steel (Kabul)

      The Ring of Steel (Persian: كمربندى شهرى كابل‎, Kamerband-i Shahr-i Kabul, “Belt of the City of Kabul”) is a series of 25 Afghan National Police checkpoints in the city of Kabul. Set up in June 2010, the Ring of Steel is designed for security purposes and manned, who occasionally stop and check suspicious vehicles attempting to pass through.

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      RickWill

      The Liberals are preparing a motion of no-confidence in Premier Danial Andrews. It will be put to the lower house in October. Will be interesting to see if that flies. It would need a lot of support from ALP members to fly – unlikely because ALP hold a 10 seat majority.

      If it gets up then it is clear indication Dan is on the nose within his own ranks. The liberals are calling Dan a [email protected] in public as the evidence is quite clear. Any support Dan has within the ALP will show their disregard for truth.

      If it does not get up then it will do no harm for the Liberals as Dan holds the majority of seats with less than 50% of the vote courtesy Green preference. Will not take a huge swing to get Liberals back. Much will depend on the lasting impact of Covid and the memory of Victorians. Liberals need to keep the court cases coming to keep the Covid in the news.

      Dan has slipped to #3 in the football tipping – that does not bode well for him.

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        Robber

        Every day Chairman Dan keeps congratulating Victorians for the wonderful ways we are surviving in Dan’s Dungeon. When will he castigate himself, his “crisis cabinet” and his bureaucrats for getting us into this hell-hole? Which department was it that produced a video congratulating themselves for their role in hotel quarantine? Which department took more than 3 months to set up effective contact tracing? Who decided to create the curfew and the excessive lockdown laws and authorise police intimidation? The Victorian “second wave” started about July 1 so we have now suffered through 75 days of a Victorian government-generated disaster with at least another 75 days to go.
        We need a fresh start with new leadership – heads must roll. The crisis clock is still ticking.

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    • #

      Their (WHO) superficial investigation team have already given up! After being stranded in Beijing for two weeks they went home. CCCP is never going to facilitate any meaningful inspection of Wuhan!

      Yeah, stranded by the flood.

      There was once a good joke about that.

      Two men are sitting in an Insurance office.

      One asks the other “What are you here for?”

      Fire damage, I’m getting one million, and what are you here for then?

      Flood damage, I’m getting two million.

      Hmm! How do start a flood?

      Tony.

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    A Crooks

    The really sinister thing here is the cancellation of her twitter account – Does twitter really work for the Chinese Government?

    For what its worth – I suspect an accidental leak from Wuhan biolab – but once it was out the Chinese Government made sure as many infected people headed to the west as possible before the extent of the problem became public. I’m thinking particularly Italy and the USA.

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      Greg Cavanagh

      Going from memory here: The Chinese announced the lockdown some days in advance, which allowed 5 million people to get out of the city before the lockdown. Also flights in an out of China were continued for 5 or 6 weeks after the city had locked down, allowing Chinese to scatter around the world.

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    PeterS

    Lots of conspiracy theories yet again with an abundance of hypotheticals. We don’t know for sure what has actually happened and how but I do smell a rat of some description. What we need to be wary about is what China and Russia will be doing over the next few years. That will reveal more and more their true intentions. We need to be prepared somehow, possibly have even closer ties with the US than ever before although that will have its own problems with the way it’s self-destructing at the moment. Of course given our own hostile dissenters that are spreading everywhere we might need to be more concerned about what happens within our own borders let alone abroad. I smell a plague of rats coming.

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    Analitik

    From her article, it seems quite clear that Dr Li-Meng Yan was a contributor to the NerdHasPower article

    I hope her story makes it to the MSM but I’m not hopeful

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    Crakar24

    This is not a difficult concept to grasp, for a virus to infect a cell two things need to happen.

    1, the virus needs to be able to attach to the cell, in this case it is the ACEII,both the pangolin and Ratg13 virus have this type of receptor.

    2, the virus then needs to be able to enter the cell this is called a cleavage site neither pangolin or Ratg13 have this but Covid does.

    Covid is similar to the aforementioned viruses except it has 4 amino acids inserted into its RNA sequence called PRRA this so happens to be the optimum combination to enter a human cell as it is triggered by Furins which we have plenty off.

    The PRRA sequence is found in the corona virus family but it is very far removed from pangolin corona virus. The viruses that do have PRRA do not possess the ACEII receptor.

    You need to ask how did PRRA get inserted into the pangolin virus? Not in nature that is for sure it is obvious (as others have stated) covid 19 is the result of gain of function testing in Wuhan.

    So please no more defending China here you embarrass yourselves.

    There is no evidence as yet China released intentionally however Chinese gov. are capable of anything so would not be surprised in the least.

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      el gordo

      ‘ … no evidence as yet China released intentionally …’

      They didn’t, a rogue actor was the culprit and it took Beijing by surprise.

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        Greg Cavanagh

        When the first doctors reported the new virus, China immediately arrested the doctors.

        Then the sickness started to spread. I’m sure the Chinese authority guessed what had happed because they did panic. They shut down an entire city of 11 million people trying to contain the virus. Nobody in the world had ever contemplated such a thing before.

        The failed miserably at containment, so lied and paid off others to lie also. The WHO fully supported the Chinese version of the story. It was quickly identified that the majority of those who work in WHO are also Chinese, so the cover-up didn’t work either.

        China has been very belligerent ever since, blaming everyone for over reacting, but being very aggressive themselves in their denials of negligence and attacking anyone who disagrees with them.

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        Konrad

        No, but there is evidence of intentionally spreading the virus out of China after the initial accident.

        They kept international flights going out of Wuhan even as they banned internal travel out of Wuhan.

        The Chinese were protesting the US travel bans until late January 2020 while claiming no Human to Human transmission. Yet documents show the Wuhan Naval academy introduced screening proceedures in December 2019.

        Then there’s the issue of the dry ice dispersal method being used at the train station leading to the Wuhan airport …

        The initial spread may have been an accident, but the following efforts to spread it internationally were clearly intentional.

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  • #

    The claim the virus came from a lab started in February and that makes sense to me.The virologist adds scientific evidence to support that claim.

    Perhaps the virus was invented as a weapon. Although weapons that explode are much more effective.

    The claim that the Chinese wanted to spread the virus outside of China is speculation. Are the Chinese so stupid that they killed so many Chinese people in China with the goal of trying to harm others? And allowed a virus to enter nations who were their allies?

    I imagine the true harm to China was far higher than we were told, perhaps 10 times more deaths or more

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      RickWill

      Perhaps the virus was invented as a weapon. Although weapons that explode are much more effective.

      It would take quite a few explosions to do the economic damage and create the panic achieved with CV19. International air travel down by about 40% for 2020.

      It took 3000t of ammonium nitrate to kill 180 people in Beirut. Lebanon has recorded 259 Covid victims and daily cases doubled following the explosion.

      A nuclear bomb on a crowded city could kill a lot of people but that action would initiate serious retribution. I expect it is impossible to conclusively point the finger at someone creating and releasing a virus with intent to do harm.

      Even if CV19 was manufactured it appears its release was accidental.

      In any case, a significant portion of the population have the view that CV19 is just like flu. If it was intended as a bioweapon then it is not that effective but it does give a hint of what a pandemic looks like in the 21st century. A subtle means of doing considerable economic damage.

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      Konrad

      No, you are still not getting it: the original release in China was an accident. The spread to the rest of the world was an intentional effort to ensure that China’s competitors would be equally harmed, negating comparative economic harm to China.

      Early on China boasted that only their system of government could stop the virus. But they were wrong. I estimate from video and images leaked over VPNs and satellite data that around 200,000 died in Wuhan city alone. They thought their draconian lockdowns, mandatory masks and cell phone apps would save them. But this wasn’t SARS-1, and it wasn’t primarily spread by respiratory droplets. The virus is still on the loose in China.

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    Richard Ilfeld

    Any chess player can understand the sacrifice of a pawn in support of an attack.
    The CCP has a very large supply of unknowing pawns; a nation that manages one-child families,
    slave labor, and concentration camps would have no concerns about sacrificing a few citizens to
    make a propaganda point: “we couldn’t have started it, we were victims too”. It is fair to say,
    however, that the Chinese, in their reactions as visible to us, seem to have a very serious level
    of respect for the danger posed by this virus, perhaps moreso than we in the west have yet gained.

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  • #
    Ruairi

    If the virus came out of a lab,
    We can’t trust a follow-up jab,
    A globalist cure,
    Our lives to immure,
    Making way for a left power grab.

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  • #

    I thought long and hard about making a comment like this one, because no matter what I say, it will get taken the wrong way by someone, anyone, so here goes anyway.

    Why is it that on really huge things like this, it’s almost impossible to distinguish between the truth and the [email protected] theory, both of which always sound so rational?

    The point is that we really have a right to know where this Wuhan CCP virus originated ….. and we will NEVER find that out.

    Tony.

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    • #

      it is a good question Tony. I think it is a fact that with big things lots of people gain from covering up and not telling the full story. Conspiracy theories exist to fill the gap. So there is a rational reason for coming up with a theory to explain the missing information. The multitude of theories to explain the same thing means they can’t all be right and is really just an indicator of the proponent’s bias.

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        Small Footprint

        fake news, Gee Aye
        In September, Yan co-authored a pre-print research paper named “Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route.” Three other researchers were listed as co-authors, but the SCMP was unable to find any prior work from them. The paper was uploaded to the Zenodo website, an open-access repository where anyone can post their research. The paper is affiliated with the Rule of Law Society, founded by Steve Bannon and Guo Wengui. The Rule of Law Society had not previously published scientific or medical research. Yan had previously appeared on Bannon’s “War Room” podcast.

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      PeterS

      Because we don’t know what you don’t know c0nspiracy theories can pop up like mushrooms.

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      el gordo

      Tony, its the power of propaganda in a totally connected world.

      So its up to the individual to sort through conspiracy theories and discard them, but we are all at sea when it comes to virology.

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    Kalm Keith

    After watching the interview, all I can say is, weird.
    I had a strange feeling while listening to her.

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    • #
    • #

      KK
      “I had a strange feeling while listening to her.”
      That the virus may be real, dangerous and that herd immunity might be a con? Or that it may have been difficult to jump on a plane from China to the U.S. in late April? Or that the WHO knew so much so early.

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  • #
    UK-Weather Lass

    And just how far did the Aids/HIV conspiracies run to and what comfort did they provide to anyone in forms of answers?

    And with an Internet being manipulated by multiple sources many of which are of ‘cancel culture’ denomination then who(WHO) is folloing who?

    Perhaps this was a starter run of the ‘How can we cause mass panic and force ordinary people to give up their freedom?’ replacing the not too successful (but very costly) climate change ruse. Who’s to trust in all this? It certainly isn’t WHO.

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    UK-Weather Lass

    And just how far did the Aids/HIV conspiracies run to and what comfort did they provide to anyone in forms of answers?

    And with an Internet being manipulated by multiple sources many of which are of ‘cancel culture’ denomination then who(WHO) is fooling who?

    Perhaps this was a starter run of the ‘How can we cause mass panic and force ordinary people to give up their freedom?’ replacing the not too successful (but very costly) climate change ruse. Who’s to trust in all this? It certainly isn’t WHO.

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    tom0mason

    Maybe a little off topic but I note that the list of retracted and questionable research on COVID papers has now reached 33.
    See https://retractionwatch.com/retracted-coronavirus-covid-19-papers/ for a list (with links) to these papers as well as ‘Temporarily retracted’ and ‘Expressions of concern’.

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    2dogs

    Is there any indication that COVID-19′s greater morbidity against males is the result of genetic manipulation?

    Given China’s general policy towards Uyghurs, and the problems China has with gender imbalance, they could well have been developing a bio-weapon targeted at Uyghur males. Possibly they had only started getting the attack on males right when the virus escaped the lab.

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    Anton

    This paper was published by Prof. Angus Dalgleish in July doing much the same as Dr Yan’s paper. It was not released with any fanfare so readers here (and Jo?) might have missed it:

    https://www.minervanett.no/files/2020/07/13/TheEvidenceNoNaturalEvol.pdf

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    neil

    Nothing new here, almost from day one it has been speculated that China virus was a biological weapon designed to disrupt western economies.

    There have been statements by emmenant virologist that CV19 is a modified SARS-CV2. I used to have links but for now you can search for them if you want. The Dr who mapped the HIV genome has claimed that DV19 is SARS spliced with HIV sequences. The objective was that SARS is very infectious but symptoms are obvious within hours so isolation is very effective. HIV is not very infectious but hides for years before obvious symptoms.

    Splicing the appropriate HIV sequences into SARS has created a man made highly infectious virus that hides symptoms for weeks to ensure extensive spread.

    And where did it spread from Wuhan, not to Beijing or Shanghai but to New York, London, Washington, the industrial hub of Italy, Paris, Singapore etc. The financial and industrial powerhouses of the western world.

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    Stuart

    I think the biggest problem we have today is the social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter.
    The are running an agenda that doesn’t allow freedom of speech and they manipulate a lot of the articles placed on their forums. They publish a lot of lies.
    The only way going forward in our society is to boycott these platforms on a mass scale around the world for a given period of time.
    We have to cripple them financially and show them that we actually control them. If we can organise a few boycotts then we might get a truthful non manipulating media back in our lives.

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      el gordo

      Its too late to close the door on social media, yet there maybe a way to clip its wings. Australia wants google to pay for articles written by our journalists, but they have refused and have warned us that they might pull out of Oz.

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    Jeff Guarino

    These other virologists are good at finding virus’s and many different area’s of research. You have to be a sleuth to extract a pattern in the RNA. Many of these scientists are mean to each other and wear blinders to theories that don’t match there own. Also money is involved and if you agree with a theory that is an outlier you may not get grant money. So you have to be good at things like SUDOKO to find the truth. Things that can’t add up. RATG13 from 2012 should not match a new virus so closely in places because the Sars COV2 should have mutated a lot from the common ancestor and these things did not happen.

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    Yonason

    As I posted before on the subject, that’s old news. We should have known, or at least suspected, since late Jan, early Feb.
    https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/01/31/logistical-and-technical-analysis-of-the-origins-of-the-wuhan-coronavirus-2019-ncov/
    (That’s the “Dan” he talks about in the next post.)

    But it’s nice to have some supporting information to add to the ever growing pile. Here’s a recent youtube on it.

    “It is immorally disingenuous to argue unequivocally that the origin of the SARS-CoV2 virus could not have been a laboratory. Even worse, the circumstantial evidence supporting this hypothesis [that it was assembled in a lab] is a mountain.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TunB03Gg65Q

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      Anton

      Calling it old news is a bit patronising. We need academic-level analyses before we start throwing accusations around that could start a world war. Now we have one. The strongest evidence in Yan’s paper is that you can see the join in the base sequence. I mean the two “restriction sites” (a term used on p.11 meaning sites where biochemical scissors are readily useable) at either end of the receptor-binding motif of SARS-CoV-2. The bases at those sites can be put in using more painstaking methods, but they then greatly facilitate further manipulation.

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        Yonason

        “We need academic-level analyses…”

        Yes. Both my links are to thorough and broad analyses by academics.

        The restriction site evidence is one red flag, but there are a number of others, at least as strong. Some were discussed by Jo on May 17 here, and the same earlier by another on May 7 here.

        There isn’t just one “smoking gun.” There are many “red flags,” all strongly pointing to a lab generated virus. Those claiming a natural source have little evidence, none of which is very convincing.

        That doesn’t tell us that the ChiComs deliberately released it from the lab, but we do know that they did allow it to spread worldwide, and they did lie about the danger. If anyone should worry about their actions risking a world war, it should be China.

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          Yonason

          UPDATE

          I just found this “Journal Club on a bike” discussing the Yan pre-print and explaining it.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlIPYZvD6U4

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          Anton

          Yes, I read those at the time. They are correct but are not the write-up in the way a formal academic paper would be. Now we have one – or two, if you include Dalgleish’s. And I believe that the West should loudly call out China for it; that is what was behind my comment about a world war.

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            Yonason

            Yes, it’s good to have published results.

            Have you seen this one, BTW? Dan Sirotkin is the “Dan” of the Harvard To The Big House blog, from whom I first learned the virus was most likely from a lab.
            https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/bies.202000091

            As to calling out China, I agree. It needs to be done, but their influence ($$$$) among America’s scientists and businessmen is going to be a lot harder to deal with.

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    Gaz

    What I would really like to know is what proportion (excluding Nursing homes and health care) of total infections in Victoria are middle eastern or Muslim. Cedar Meats, security guards who consider using hand sanitizer to be against their religion, al taqueria college and now the afghan group in the south east.
    In Sweden again outside of health care and nursing homes, the picture is the same – most are of certain ethnic groups.
    I wonder whether the virus was intended as a final solution for the Uighur.

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    Turtle

    Is it possible that the Chinese government wanted to rectify the upside down pyramid of Chinese demographics? It is horrible to contemplate, but in a communist system it is economically advantageous for the elderly to die early. A disturbing possibility.

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    Gary

    It might be interesting to argue about melodramatic conspiracies, but I would prefer to focus on more useful information – like this recent open letter from a group of Belgian medical practitioners and specialists:
    https://docs4opendebate.be/en/open-letter/

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    Anton

    Perhaps the extreme response of China to the outbreak – welding shut the doors to entire blocks of flats – is not because they know something horrible about SARS-CoV-2 but because there was s general biosecurity breach at the Wuhan Institute and they initially didn’t know what had got loose.

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    Yonason

    One of my biggest concerns is, now that China knows how their first attempt worked, they may be in a position to design a new and improved killer virus.

    It’s not like they aren’t going to have the resources.
    https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/china-goes-on-biosafety-lab-building-spree/

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    Yonason

    ________UPDATE________

    CAUTION ADVISED

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    thingadonta

    I’m not a fan of the artificially created idea. All you really need is an exotic cave bat collector with a bad cold selling bats to wet markets. This is very common. The common cold exchanges genes with the virus just like the bird-pig-human flu connection. The Spanish flu wasn’t man made and neither was smallpox, AIDS, MERS, and a host of other nasties. The viruses do it themselves, aided by cultural practices, and sometimes by exchanging pre-existing genes from other already-adapted-to-human viruses-like the common cold or other flus. What is common in all these, is human animal -bird interaction, something which is enhanced by exotic wet markets, with a demand for the obscure from a remote cave. It’s only a matter of time.

    Because the virus was already adapted to humans just likely means people were catching it for some time whilst it evolved in humans, perhaps months, perhaps even years. When they tested a remote village In China for antibodies to one nearby bat virus found in a nearby cave some of them had antibodies to it already, meaning they had caught nearby bat viruses whilst going about their daily lives, possibly eating bat from time to time-or selling them at inflated prices to markets hundreds of miles away. Just like covid19.

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      Yonason

      “Made in a lab” doesn’t mean it was all made in a lab. What is meant is that it was most likely modified in a lab? Here are just 2 specific bits of evidence:

      1. – A furin cleavage site appears to have been added (no other B-type Coronavirus is known to to have one, and they don’t just make themselves).

      2. – The spike protein is almost perfectly adapted to human ACE2 receptors, which is highly unlikely, unless selected for in a lab (It’s been done already in the USA by Shi Zhengli, now employed by …Wuhan P4 lab.) It’s called “gain of function” research, and makes a virus highly contagious.

      “The Spanish flu wasn’t man made and neither was smallpox” Your comment is disingenuous. There are actually 2 issues here, one that it was made in a lab, and the other that it escaped from a lab. They can be separate issues. Escapes of dangerous pathogens have occured, and,in fact, while working with smallpox in a containment facility in the UK, some was accidentally released and people died.

      But the fact that this virus, or I should say this pimped up virus, is found nowhere but in a lab, means that it was most likely modified in a lab, and then escaped.

      The origianl virus from which this chimera was constructed was probably dangerous if one contracted it from bats by exposure to lots of bat guano, like in a cave without protective clothing, BUT, the likelihood of contracting it away from bats was enhanced by optimizing the spike proteins, which couldn’t occur naturally because not enough people and bats live in close enough proximity to be evolutionarily feasible. The addition of the furin cleavage site would make an infection worse.

      Finally, addressing that last bit, you write…
      “When they tested a remote village In China for antibodies to one nearby bat virus found in a nearby cave some of them had antibodies to it already”
      That kind of assertion demands support. Given China’s lies and obstruction, I would like to see a reference to someone more credible than anything under PRC control.

      Additionally, on that, we have this…

      …there is very little serological evidence of any exposure to these coronaviruses even in Chinese villagers living in close proximity to bat caves, and at the epicenter of the current outbreak—no previous exposure was found at all. These data do not support the idea that SARS‐CoV‐2 was circulating in humans prior to the outbreak began in Wuhan in the early winter or fall of 2019, making a zoonotic jump even more unlikely since natural jumps leave wide serological footprints in their new host populations as early variants of a prospective virus make limited and unsuccessful jumps into individuals of the new host species, a trial‐and‐error that must occur before mutations that allow adaptation to a new host species are selected.[50]

      …from here.
      https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/bies.202000091

      In short, the likelihood that this was the result of a zoonotic jump remains very small.

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        thingadonta

        Im not against the idea of it escaping from a lab, I just don’t think you can rule out a natural origin so easily either.

        “the likelihood that this was the result of a zoonotic jump remains very small”

        Data for high certainty is just not there either way. To say otherwise is premature and jumping the gun.

        The village story with antibodies I read somewhere (not from the CCP), it was when they found another bat virus some years ago. I haven’t got time to look it up.

        “since natural jumps leave wide serological footprints in their new host populations….”.

        I don’t see why this has to be the case, the spanish flu is thought to come from ’1′ individual with both a bird flu and a pig virus exchanging genes. One ebola outbreak was traced to 1 kid playing in a log with bat droppings.

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    For a decisive demolition of this warmongering Sinophobic propaganda, another site run by an Australian woman contributes a four-part series which begins here:

    https://quillette.com/2020/08/24/the-china-syndrome-part-i-outbreak/

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