JoNova

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Evidence grows that Coronavirus was man-made: the bat virus it “evolved” from appears to be faked

Coronavirus

The claims that the current pandemic Coronavirus is natural all rely on it being 96% closely related to a natural bat virus known as the RaTG13 virus. But new analysis suggests this “natural” virus only exists as a fake creation on a Chinese computer.

The implications of this type of work will affect global politics. The anger towards the Chinese CCP mismanagement, dishonesty, and the coverup will unite the world against the global bad-citizen player. It also drives a pike through the casual globalist academic programs, and the role of people like Anthony Fauci, chief advisor to Trump, head of the Expert Swamp in the US. Why was he sending money to the Wuhan Institute of Virology? Why did the West help train and supply this lab?

h/t ramblingidiot, Choroin, Selwyn, El Gordo, Rob Dinn, Mike Mitchell

The virus that SARS-CoV-2 is supposed to have evolved from looks unmistakably artificial — in sections it contains far too many “mutations” that matter but hardly any of the normal noise of silent mutations which always occur naturally alongside the mutations which change the end product. Like someone cut and pasted multiple photos together with different background noise. Other sections of the code which ought to mutate quickly are suspiciously identical and unchanged, and didn’t mutate at all. (In the wild there is little selective pressure on something called “E Proteins” and they vary a lot in other coronaviruses. They are already mutating fast in the pandemic but somehow were “frozen” in time in RaTG13.)

Dr. Shi Zhengli is known as the Bat Woman of Wuhan Virology. We’ve already heard how her lab was central to research on Coronaviruses and how she and others were ordered to destroy all copies of the laboratory viruses on Jan 2nd this year in what appears to be a mass cover up.

A string of papers were released in February claiming the Wuhan Virus was “96% related” to a known Bat Coronavirus and was therefore natural (see Zhao et al 2020, Shan-Lu Liu, 2020, Andersen et al 2020). Two of these papers appeared in Nature. But what we didn’t know was that the RNA sequence for the original bat Coronavirus that the new pandemic evolved from, which was called RaTG13, was only registered on Jan 27th this year, despite it supposedly being discovered in 2013. The first  Nature paper appeared only 6 days later. So much for Peer Review…

No one has a sample of that virus, no one else has sequenced it, and it, as Steven Mosher says may only exist “in a string of letters on her computer”.

NerdHasPower describes how easy it is to create a “natural bat virus” that matches the Wuhan virus:

Can the sequence of such a virus be fabricated? It cannot be any easier. It takes a person less than a day to TYPE such a sequence (less than 30,000 letters) in a word file. And it would be a thousand times easier if you already have a template that is about 96% identical to the one you are trying to create. Once the typing is finished, one can upload the sequence onto the public database. Contrary to general conception, such database does not really have a way to validate the authenticity or correctness of the uploaded sequence. It relies completely upon the scientists themselves – upon their honesty and consciences. Once uploaded and released, such sequence data becomes public and can be used legitimately in scientific analysis and publications.

NerdHasPower, with several helpers, shows there are sections which are missing the silent mutations which would normally occur in a virus due to natural mutation. Think of these as the noise that should be there, but isn’t. The lack of this background noise shows the mutations were “designed” by the hand of man (or woman, in this case) with an aim in mind.

He points out that scientists like Zhengli would not sit on a hot new natural bat virus like RaTG13 for six or seven long years without publishing it. The first thing they would do is analyze it for sequences that show whether it would bind to human ACE2 receptors like SARS did — making it a potential human threat. It’s exactly the kind of discovery researchers are hunting for, the kind that make that researcher a highly cited, author.

As an expert as Shi is, she only needed to take one peek at the sequence of RaTG13’s RBD and immediately realize: this virus closely resembles SARS in its RBD and has a clear potential of infecting humans. If Shi’s public statement is true and she indeed intends to discover bat coronaviruses with a potential to cross-over to humans, how could she possibly overlook this extremely interesting finding of RaTG13? If this RaTG13 was discovered SEVEN years ago in 2013, why did Shi not publish this astonishing finding earlier and yet let the “less-attractive” viruses take the stage? Why did she decide to publish such a sequence only when the current outbreak took place and people started questioning the origin of the Wuhan coronavirus?

None of these makes sense. These facts only add to the suspicion – Zhengli Shi either was directly involved in the creation of this virus/bioweapon, or helped cover it up, or both.

Steven Mosher has done a masterful job of explaining the whole story of the master code cracking done by NerdHasPower, who published in Chinese and English and who says only he is “A Nobody Scientist”. Presumably honest Chinese scientists need to be nobodies.

Was the coronavirus created by Chinese scientist who tried to cover her tracks – and failed?

Steven Mosher:

To reinforce the “Wet Market” cover story, namely, that this new pathogen had come from nature and not from her lab, something had to be done. And it had to be done quickly, since by then the China Coronavirus had spread to the rest of the world.  Anger against China for its lack of transparency about the origins and characteristics of the virus was growing.

The similarity between the two coronaviruses—including their common ability to infect humans–would greatly reinforce [Dr Shi Zhengli's] story that the SARS-CoV-2 had jumped from a bat to a human, perhaps through some intermediate species at the Wuhan wet market.

So, all Dr. Shi had to do was sit down before her computer keyboard, open a word file, and begin to fabricate the SARS-CoV-2 analogue that she would claim to have found in nature seven years before. All she had to do was type in the genetic sequence of her own creation, SARS-CoV-2, changing a few nucleotides now and again to mimic the “random mutations” that regularly occur in nature.

She could easily have completed the “data entry” part of her task in a day, since all she was doing was entering in a string of letters alternating between the four nucleotides, A, U, G, and C.  And coronaviruses contain less than 30,000 different nucleotides.

Dr. Shi registered her new virus on January 27th, 2020, with the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) of the U.S. National Institutes of Health, the customary repository for such information.  She called it RaTG-13, Ra for Rhinolophus affinis, the Latin name of the Intermediate Horseshoe Bat, and 13 for 2013, the year she supposedly “discovered” it.

A lot of people have been taken in by Dr. Shi’s clever “discovery,” which is looking more and more like a forgery. No one else has independently verified its existence.  No other lab has a sample of it, and no one else has ever sequenced it.  And of course, they likely never will, because more and more evidence suggests that it exists only in a string of letters on her computer.

The case of the missing silent mutations

NerdHasPower has shown that the changes that supposedly occurred by natural mutation from the wild RaTG13 virus to the SARS-Cov-2 virus have a very unnatural pattern.

The code for RNA is a string of four letters A, T, C and G. Each Coronavirus is a string of these letters 29,000 bases long. It is the same code as all life on Earth (or it wouldn’t be able to be used inside our cells). The string is read as three letter codons (Eg: ATG, or ATC). Each three letter codon is translated into one particular amino acid, but there is redundancy built in to the code. So often one letter of each codon can mutate but still code for the same amino acid. This protects the code, so that most mutations won’t change the end product. They are “silent” mutations which don’t change the end product – they are the spelling error that can’t be heard — like reading Cat and Kat. (Synonymous mutants don’t change the meaning)

Steven Mosher:

In nature, the ratio of synonymous to non-synonymous is approximately 5:1.

Here’s where Dr. Shi got into trouble.  When typing in the genomic sequence of her “discovery” she made way too many non-synonymous changes at the beginning.  Then, one-third of the way through the sequence, she apparently realized her error.  After that, she made way too few non-synonymous changes.  So while the entire genome has the expected 5:1 ratio, there are stretches where the ratio is closer to 2:1, and other long stretches where it is as high as 44:1.

Nature’s mutations are random.  Dr. Shi’s “mutations” are not. Dr. Lawrence Sellin has calculated that the odds that her “mutations” occurred naturally in just one area—the critical spike protein–at almost ten million to one.

Thank the Expert Swamp for help creating this virus

Dr Anthony Fauci sent $US to do this work in China.

Steven Mosher on Fauci’s role:

…here is one thing about Dr. Shi’s research that we do know with absolute, ironclad certainty: The U.S. was helping to fund it.  From 2013 onwards, the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases, run by the now-famous Dr. Anthony Fauci, gave $7.4 million for research involving gain-of-function work and collecting and studying bat coronaviruses, $600,000 of which went to the Wuhan Institute of Virology.  Much of the rest went to other labs in China.

If Dr. Fauci was as familiar with the Chinese Communist Party as he is with viruses, he would not have sent the Wuhan Institute of Virology one thin dime. He would have known that the PRC has a long-running program to develop bioweapons. He would have concluded that China’s only BSL-4 high containment lab was the obvious place to carry out at least some of this research.  And he definitely did know that the “Gain-of-Function” research he was funding had the potential to create “Pathogens of Pandemic Potential” that might not be used for peaceful ends.

NerdHasPower on the E proteins that don’t mutate

The E protein of β coronaviruses is a structural protein that is tolerant of mutations as evidenced both in SARS and in bat coronaviruses. However, on the amino acid level, E protein of the Wuhan coronavirus identified at the beginning of the outbreak is 100% identical to those of the suspected templates, ZC45 and ZXC21 (Figure 4). What is striking is that, after a short two-months spread of the virus in humans, the E protein is already mutating. Sequence data obtained within the month of April indicate that mutations have occurred to four different locations (Figure 4). Note that the E protein makes very limited interactions with host proteins and thus is not under evolutionary pressure to adapt to a new host. Not only can the E protein tolerate mutations but also its mutational rate is held constant across different coronavirus species. The fact that the E protein of the Wuhan coronaviruses is already mutating in the short period of human-to-human transmission is consistent with its evolutionary feature. In stark contrast, while ZC45/ZXC21 and the Wuhan coronavirus are more distant evolutionarily, the E proteins within them are 100% identical. In no way this could be a result of natural evolution.

 Those who know genetics will get a lot out the collective investigation going on at NerdHasPower.

Long live free speech.

REFERENCES

Zhao et al 2020 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2012-7

Shan-Lu Liu, 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7054935/

Andersen et al 2020 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

 

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Evidence grows that Coronavirus was man-made: the bat virus it "evolved" from appears to be faked, 9.3 out of 10 based on 83 ratings

195 comments to Evidence grows that Coronavirus was man-made: the bat virus it “evolved” from appears to be faked

  • #
    Roger

    Interesting story developing about the World Military games held in Wuhan, October 2019. Numerous athletes , and later their families, developed a ‘Flu’ with Covid-19 symptoms and are now being tested. Athletes reported that the streets of Wuhan had very few people about and that cleaning and disinfecting at the games was extreme.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8327047/More-competitors-reveal-ill-World-Military-Games.html

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    • #
      Roger

      Looking at the Red Thumbs makes me wonder if the CCP is trying to suppress the idea that China bears responsibility ……..

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    • #
      CC Reader

      Could China be trying to develop a virus to eradicate a particular race? I seem to remember a report stating that there were racial attacks on black people in China.

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      • #
        Geoff Croker

        “Dr Anthony Fauci sent $US to do this work in China.”

        At the same time he sent $US to do work on treatment of Covid viruses to labs in the United States.

        The BIG question is will Anthony Fauci benefit from any treatment?

        60

    • #
      Marc Major

      I’m still wondering why our governments have reacted in the manner they have. By all accounts Covid 19 appears to be a slightly more contagious flu virus. The mortality rate appears to be far less than 1 and thus; just a slightly more morbid flu.

      I appreciate that there are new and severe reactions to this flu (apparent Kawasaki reactions among others). But none of these reactions, IMO seem to be worthy of the restrictions imposed upon the greater community.

      So, either the governments of the world have over-reacted or they know something we don’t. Which is it?

      Australia has been lucky because of it’s geographic isolation and it’s advantage of being an island State. So, now that we have survived the first wave (possible eradication of the virus in Australia); how should we then live in a Covid 19 infected world?

      Do/must we allow a “herd immunity” in order to function in the rest of the Covid 19 infected world? If the answer is “yes”, how do we choose to develop such herd immunity?

      In short, whose rights are ultimate; the One or the Many?

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    • #
      Bella Thomas

      You may also be interested in this, CDC Inspection findings about Fort Detrick US Army Medical Research Institute of Infectous Diseases. The Army’s premier biological lab on Fort Derrick reported 2 breaches of containment. Complete shutdown. Federal Select Agent Program which regulates select agents and toxins such as ebola and other agents. This was reported in the NY Times in November 2019. The breach happened before November, it may very well have been a US military person who took the virus into the Military World games at Wuhan? Google Fort Derrick Research suspension and it will come up. Could explain Trump passing the blame on Wuhan where it got out of control. !0,000 military persons from around the world attended these games and some became very sick as your article indicates.

      00

  • #
    Peter C

    Those who know genetics……

    Gee Aye could probably contribute to this, if he wants to.

    62

    • #

      I could… having fun reading the conspiracies.

      A point of order on evolution- the supposed bat virus was an isolate and the covid19 virus is not purported to derive/evolve from it (though this is possible) but to be closely related (ie shared common ancestor). The implication is that if we look in bats (or elsewhere, who knows) is that we will find a whole lot of viruses with similar relatedness and might even find the covid virus itself.

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      • #
        Bill In Oz

        G A You’ve ignored 2-3 major points :
        1: Supposedly this was discovered in 2013..But all public ‘knowledge’ of it was hidden until late January 2020..That is very unlikely is a scientist seeking professional recognition…

        2: If the home of this virus was bats i why have no other scientists been back there in the Yunan region looking for more bat viruses…

        3: In the period since December 2019 the Corona 19 virus has mutated into 60 odd strains.. But from 2013 to 2019 there were no mutations at all…Very very odd
        4: The virus RNA sequence code is odd in the way it is different to the Corona 19 virus… Not evolved but rather just fiddled around with on screen…

        My own suspicion is that this was part of a research project which went wrong and was released by accident last October/November. But since then the CCP has denied all responsibility and allowed it to travel the world.

        COVID 19 is the CCP’s Lunar New Year gift to the world

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        • #

          Note my choice of words and note I was not commenting on everything. Was that a requirement?

          I just read the nerd stuff and apart from being irritated by their use of language (“as anyone can see” types of statements used to assert a claim), I found it very deficient in its explanations. There are possibly tens of thousands of evolution alignment papers that discuss similar anomolies and nerd has not referenced or acknowledged or in any way dismissed any other explanation. If there were any stats in the blog (of which there are also thousands of papers to guide) that gave some likelihood of certain scenarios versus others then they could publish.

          I wonder what old Adrian will find.

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          • #

            read commenter Bryan’s comments. His comments need to be addressed viz the various parameters assume, some unreasobaly, certain things going on (e.g. the 5:1 ration of syn:non-syn mutations is just an average observed across coding regions but is not valid for an infecting virus). Basically, and you’d appreciate this from the climate debate, there are a lot of assumptions being made that either need justification and which have a level of uncertainty to them that is not being conveyed to the reader.

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      • #
        Peter C

        Thanks Gee Aye.

        Could you explain;

        The supposed bat virus was an isolate

        Do you mean that it was found all on its own or was it somehow separated (isolated) from a mixture of viruses or do you mean something else?

        30

  • #
    TdeF

    So the weapon came from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. As everyone knows. The attempt to blame the Americans is as absurd as it is predictable.

    And the mutation problems are. Too many mutations at the start of the chain. Fewer later to compensate and achieve the average result of 5:1. And then a complete lack of mutations over years, despite the expectation and evidence that this virus mutates continually.

    So the ‘discovery’ is a cut and paste fake in a simple text editor. The timing is also evidence, that such a significant, new and unique virus discovered in 2013 has just been reported in January 2020, unchanged without mutations.

    It’s amazing what you can achieve with a word processor.

    It reminds me of that ancient vase with the inscribed date 55BC.

    386

    • #
      TdeF

      And as I write continually, it is these mutations which are our greatest hope unless a vaccine can be found. Perversely, the isolation of victims will prevent the discovery of a benign variant. So we have to look to Iran for an accidental cure, a highly infective benign version of the virus. Now wouldn’t that be something.

      195

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        But don’t we already have two cures? Vitamin D, in particular as a preventative, and the Zelenko cocktail ASAP after exposure? That’s certainly my understanding. Pity they’re not widely advertised.
        Cheers
        Dave B

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        • #
          TdeF

          Technically an immunization is not a cure. It is a preventative. A cure would be great, an anti viral, a way of stopping the infection early or at all. Or even just its worst effects.

          To eliminate it or even reduce it to nuisance level requires some sort of immunization. And it can be a dead virus or a live one.

          105

          • #
            David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

            I used the term “cure” carefully, and personally have no confidence that any immunisation approach will be found, ever, let alone in the short term.
            I stand by my original reply.
            Have you not watched the links to the doctors’ works? I found them in replies here over recent weeks.
            Cheers
            Dave B

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        • #
          Steve of Cornubia

          As far as I know, there is some evidence that Vit D can REDUCE the chances of infection and possibly reduce the symptoms, but I haven’t seen any evidence that Vit D is a useful TREATMENT for those who are already sick. In other words, it isn’t a ‘cure’.

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          • #
            David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

            Vitamin D was included in the cases reported by by Dr Ban in conjunction with Dr Zelenko’s “cocktail”, so was part of that cure.
            And the paper from Indonesia, in Jo’s post on vitamin D, clearly showed the adverse effects of low and very low blood levels in severe, and dead, cases. Other research also shows that vitamin D is significant in producing increased immune response. So I’ll back it as a preventative in populations with reduced natural levels.
            Cheers
            Dave B

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            • #
              Steve of Cornubia

              So, not a ‘cure’ then, but a preventative, which is different.

              Remember the old saying, “Prevention is better than cure’?

              20

        • #
          William Astley

          Vitamin D & Zinc.

          Viruses are simple things that absolutely must use our cells to replicate.

          Zinc has been shown to stop the virus from replicating at a microbiological level.

          Hydroxychloroquine is a Zinc ionophore which means it helps get the positive Zinc +2 ion into our negatively charged cell.

          There is evidence that our body has a natural system that also gets Zinc into our cells to stop this class of viruses which must connect to the ACE-2 connector molecule from replicating. The Zinc +2 ion makes the ACE-2 connector molecule slightly positive.

          The virus cannot mutate to get around the ion Zinc making the ACE-2 connector molecule in our cells slightly positive, which stops the virus replication.

          No replication, no virus spreading, and no serious symptoms.

          This is a paper about the in vitro test that proves Zinc stops this class of viruses from replicating. No replication is better than isolation.

          https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1001176

          This is a link to the interview of the Jewish doctor who used Zinc plus Hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin to treat 700 covid patients, who were sick and showing symptoms, with only one death.

          See this medcram video (start with minute 4:00 after skipping commercial)

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M&feature=youtu.be

          https://www.ibtimes.sg/us-doctor-claims-have-cured-nearly-500-coronavirus-patients-using-hydroxychloroquine-video-42075

          https://techstartups.com/2020/04/03/updates-from-dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-700-coronavirus-patients-with-99-9-success-rate-using-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-sulfate-and-z-pak-1-outpatient-died-after-not-following-protocol-exclusi/

          90

    • #
      Deano

      “It reminds me of that ancient vase with the inscribed date 55BC” – LOL. I like the wise saying from Confucius: “Not every quote you read on the internet attributed to me is true.”

      150

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Sort of a game changer if found to be correct and plenty samples out there to be studied , being infected with a normal virus is one thing but something that’s been created in a lab puts a different spin on things .
    This virus has as many twists and turns as an Alfred Hitchcock novel !

    141

    • #
      TdeF

      It’s simple enough. Manufactured in a lab in 2017. Accidentally released. It’s the impossible cover up being attempted. Even notices in Arabic that America was responsible, as if Americans cannot read Arabic. Blame shifting, denial, faking of evidence, threatening. Donald Trump is right. The Chinese government is acting like a bad baby. It is infantile but terribly worrying for everyone, including the Chinese.

      You could only think the senior party members have had such a golden ride for the last decade they think they can bluff their way through the greatest single disaster of their history, that they can get away with anything. Getting the President of WHO to say it was not infectious was devastating. And there are a lot of Chinese people who would be very angry that this disaster is China made.

      355

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Accidentally released.’

        My crystal ball sees a lone actor, a disgruntled junior member of the team who either purposefully or accidentally went to the Wuhan market with the virus.

        Morrison acted quickly because he knew from the start that this virus had the potential to wipe out humanity.

        65

        • #
          Joe

          El,I don’t know what the resolution of your crystal ball is, but can you tell from it whether it looks like a patriotic local worker or perhaps a spook, possibly doing the bidding of others with ill intentions? It just seems a little curious that with other nations contributing to or connected with this research that the blame was so quickly placed solely on the government there. It was kind of the opposite in the UK when there was the Skripal poisoning incident. There you had a secretive bio-weapons lab just down the road from where it unfolded, you had pretty much a public domain recipe and yet pretty much the same players as now were proclaiming within days that it was done by Russia.
          Aren’t we saying that the WHO were too slow to declare a pandemic? But didn’t Morrison not close the borders until a further week after that and in the meantime a boat load of viruses landed in the centre of Sydney? Not sure your comments of Mr Morrison ‘knowing’ are on the money – wasn’t he the same bloke who suggested it was ok to go out shopping for jigsaw puzzles with your kids during the pandemic? You see the Govs of all levels in Australia promoting the message of coughing into the crook of your elbow but at the same time they are promoting that you use those same elbows to push buttons on crosswalks and public transport doors – Mr Morrison is also seen bumping his elbow with Joffrey’s on the floor of parliament as some sort of high(ly contagious) five greeting. I am not sure a man truly in the know as you say would do that.

          74

  • #
    Brenda Spence

    [ Off Topic ]AD

    13

  • #
    Environment Skeptic

    Evidence grows that all over the world we need to audit what labs all over the world are doing with libraries of an associated entire genome sequence of a plethora of viruses that are all shared by labs able to instantly create any said virus from the said shared data base. Thanks! :)

    112

    • #
      Steve of Cornubia

      “Evidence grows that all over the world we need to audit what labs all over the world are doing with libraries of an associated entire genome sequence of a plethora of viruses that are all shared by labs able to instantly create any said virus from the said shared data base. Thanks!”

      Translated: Look over there!

      Why not simply stick to the most important matter, and the one that is most likely to help stop the spread of Covid-19, i.e. establish where COVID-19 originated?

      100

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Auditing level 4 biolabs throughout the world might help i agree. They are global at this time. Governments, here and there, are able to demand some kind of transparency?

        42

        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          Skeptic, you do realise don’t you that the governments themselves are the ones being nefarious? They don’t want transparency! If there is one honest government in the world, please tell me which one it is.

          91

          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            And so Greg, you do realise that governments are under the thumb of their creditors and the wishes and terms of repayment and even what the creditors will and will not fund.

            21

          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            For example, if creditors like Bill Gates, they can fund his research and completely skip the step of waiting for slow moving government funding.

            And so there you have it…..Creditors rule….not governments.

            31

    • #
      Speedy

      Investigate all the labs around the world? Maybe. But special attention for those that are located about 300 metres from ground zero of this current pandemic!
      Cheers,
      Speedy.

      90

  • #
    WXcycles

    The first Nature paper appeared only 6 days later. So much for Peer Review … “No one has a sample of that virus, no one else has sequenced it, and it, as Steven Mosher says may only exist “in a string of letters on her computer”. …”

    Good analysis Mosh — a dog with a bone!

    It’ll be interesting to see who (if anyone) steps up to try to explain away the observed non-random distribution anomalies within the coding-sequence.

    The CHICOM party in Beijing are going to be crucified if this stands up, as the infection is going to get very much worse from here so the social, economic and geopolitical ramifications will be energized and escalate to some world-changing proportions.

    The more important thing will be to communicate it and make sure the Chinese people themselves understand this, that the CCP infected China, they were not the saviors of Wuhan, they were the ones who created this whole Chinese and global mess.

    It also makes clearer now why Beijing is so keen to falsely claim the virus came from somewhere other than China. Plus why Beijing reacted so threateningly to Australia’s requiring a proper full-scale international investigation into origins of the virus. Xi and senior Party members will realize they’re on the hook for this, but if the Chinese people understand this virus was manufactured in a CCP lab … then it’s time to finally remove the commies who should have been pushed out of power during 1991-1992.

    275

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      WX…stake your claim…Are you an expert political analyst?

      519

      • #
        Steve of Cornubia

        Environment Skeptic…state your agenda…Are you interested in helping here, or just trying to defend China?

        203

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Refer to my previous comment. Every bat virus genome was on a virus data base hard drive in any country since at least 2010. How can all that bat data be only on Chinese hard drives?

        213

        • #
          Environment Skeptic

          I suspect many on this forum do not realise viruses are a shared genomic library…there are no ‘chimeric’ boundaries.

          214

          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            In other words, by copying a genome from a library of viruses (Global database), any country can make an exact virus from scratch. Not exactly a chinese problem.

            Refrain from the china bashing in the meantime…thanks!

            320

            • #
              TdeF

              You’re serious? Really?

              146

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                Yes TdeF, before your very eyes ‘gain of function’ labs are global. is it really so difficult to slightly comprehend? Not a predominantly Chinese phenomena whatsoever. An audit in every country might shed some light.

                Gain of function is everywhere TdeF

                48

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                And yes, a virus can be given a gain of function by a few simple keyboard stokes.…via the internet from any country, not just from china lol

                38

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                Still trolling for the CCP ?
                It’s late, you’re tired
                You are doing a lousy job for your masters
                Go to bed.

                123

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                IMNESO..(in my non expert student opinion)

                17

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                ‘Focus!’….thanks Bill..you are a talented mentor. Go easy on the people from the geographical region often referred to as ‘China’. For my childrens sake. I want my kids to get along with people.

                39

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          NO evidence again ES

          49

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Love a disinformation campaign, like this one.
        Make a claim to suit your agenda, misquote a few previously unknown sources and hope that it gets picked up on blogs like this one.
        The Heartland Institute, famous for supporting the cigarette lobby (who started it off) is the leader in this approach.

        I’ll give you another example, used by another fringe group.
        “The eye is an incredibly complex organ, which requires every component to function perfectly to see. Therefore it could not have evolved, it must have been intelligently designed”

        127

        • #
          el gordo

          So you think the virus came from a farmer in Hubei Province?

          I prefer the story that it was intelligently designed.

          150

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            It is the height of arrogance to believe that only man could have built such a virus. But it does suit a narrative which deflects attention from the poor response seen in some countries, like the USA. Like cigarettes, and vaccines, this is a play on your gullibility.

            210

            • #
              AndyG55

              this is a play on your gullibility.

              You mean like the non-information about warming by atmospheric CO2 ?

              Its the height of arrogance to think a tiny amount of human released plant food can cause atmospheric catastrophe, and that it couldn’t be 100% natural.

              It is a play on people’s gullibility.

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            • #
              AndyG55

              There are several things about this virus that appear to be “unnatural”

              There is NOTHING about the current global climate that is not totally natural.

              You seem very confused in your application of logic.

              100

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘ … this is a play on your gullibility.’

              The first epicentre was the wet market, are we looking for patient zero or an symptomatic carrier?

              30

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘ … asymptomatic carrier?’

              40

            • #
              R.B.

              It is the height of arrogance to believe that only man could have built such a virus

              Read what people are actually saying, not the straw man arguments from what you think are reliable thought police.

              80

            • #
              Evidence Please

              Peter,
              They equate scepticism with evidence, therefore no need to look further. All they’ll say is ‘where’s your evidence ?’

              11

          • #
            Speedy

            Yes, El Gordo; intelligent design for Covid is possible, but it clearly wasn’t designed with WISDOM, was it?

            90

        • #
          AndyG55

          “Love a disinformation campaign, like this one.”

          Yep, we all note that you love disinformation, but prefer non-information.

          91

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Please read the guidelines for comments and also stop the personal attacks

            Admins please delete Andy’s vitriol

            [ There is nothing to delete in his reply Peter but I'm watching to make sure everyone is playing nice .]AD

            08

            • #
              AndyG55

              No vitriol there, just pointing out your modus,

              … and how much you love putting forward dis-information.

              Which is exactly what you said.

              100

            • #
              AndyG55

              And you of course, at #7.1.3, made a personal attack on this whole blog.

              So stop your “victim” calls. !

              60

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              “Yep, we all note that you love disinformation, but prefer non-information”. – did the use of a personal pronoun escape you? or are there protected commentators on this site

              13

              • #
                AndyG55

                “hope that it gets picked up on blogs like this one”

                Nah, not your petty attempt at “ad hom” to the whole blog, was it. !

                Stick with your persecution simplex. It suits you.

                50

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Functional.

          20

        • #
          AndyG55

          “I’ll give you another example, used by another fringe group.”

          The fringe group that calls themselves “climate scientists”,

          “Its warming a tiny amount after the coldest period in 10,000 years, and even though warming has happened many times before..
          … this time it must be caused by human CO2, because natural variability no longer applies.”

          “Make a claim to suit your agenda,”

          The AGW fantasists way. Science need not be considered.

          160

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Like the eye the human alimentary canal is a very complex organ but it always ends the same way.
          In Wuhan the end is always unhygienic Squat Toilets with somewhat questionable health consequences.
          No wonder it spread so fast.

          30

      • #
        William Astley

        Environment Skeptic (AKA Chinese puppet).

        The official Chinese version is the Wuhan virus was made in a US lab.

        If the virus was made in the US lab and released by US servicemen in the Military World Games in October 2019 as is now alleged by the Chinese government (CCP), why did they hid and destroy evidence?

        Obviously, the truth is not on the side of CCP. Why did the CCP destroy evidence? Issue false statements?

        And why is Australia being threatened with major trade sanctions just for proposing an investigation in the Covid-19 origins? What does China have to hide?

        Why did China (CCP) threaten Australia? Why do we let China threaten our countries?

        What does China have to hide? That of course is a rhetorical question.

        Why is China issuing propaganda, videos, attacking the President of the US? Active interference in the US election, a few months before an election. Unbelievable!!!

        China is going to have to pay for the damage covid-19 has caused. In the end, when this plays out, China is going to be broken into smaller countries. The Chinese people are scared of the CCP monster. We are going to come to their aid.

        https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/22/who-covers-for-china-amid-virus-outbreak-not-contagious-among-humans

        Communist officials in China hid the extent of the coronavirus outbreak during the early stages of the epidemic, jailing and silencing whistleblowers, a move that allowed the virus to gain a firm hold. The ruling communist party, however, has hailed the recent slowdown of the outbreak as a sign of the superiority of its authoritarian political system.

        A study published earlier this month by the University of Southampton, determined that China could have prevented 95 percent of the coronavirus infections plaguing the globe if Beijing had listened to the doctor whistleblowers in Wuhan about the seriousness of the disease instead of silencing and punishing them for speaking out.

        China using their money to bribe corrupt US university professors to steal US technology.

        https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/01/29/feds-harvard-chemistry-chair-lied-about-taking-millions-from-china/

        60

    • #
      Bulldust

      My guess is that the Wuhan lab will suffer from spontaneous combustion in the near future.

      250

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Guesses are fine….and so what if entire digital genome libraries of viruses available at short notice via the internet combusted (Like other libraries in the past)too?

        36

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Are you a library combustor type person too?

        34

        • #
          Environment Skeptic

          My Sequel….it is preferable to only combust (a radical and extreme method of keeping ones powder dry) unless absolutely necessary, and entirely proven by as much opinion as one could muster i would hazard a guesse.IMNESO.

          34

    • #
      Deano

      WXcycles – exactly. The Chinese reaction to calls for an inquiry display the stark difference in political culture. In the west, opposing an inquiry immediately raises suspicion and generally guarantees the inquiry will proceed. In China, opposition also raises suspicion except the government rules public opinion so completely that no one dares acknowledge that suspicion. And there are politicians and journalists here in Oz that bow to that Chinese government power.

      COVID19 is about the only thing “Made in China” that works really well.

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    • #
      Roger Knights

      “Good analysis Mosh”

      There’s another Steven Mosher who’s been commenting on the virus. I’m pretty sure this is he, not “our” SOME.

      30

    • #
      Roger Knights

      “Good analysis Mosh”

      There’s another Steven Mosher who’s been commenting on the virus. I’m pretty sure this is he, not “our” SM.

      50

    • #
      Marc Major

      I find it bizarre that so many of the comments to this particular thread (virus obviously man-made) rely on the fact that the virus could not have naturally occurred. Therefore, it must have been designed by an intelligence.

      As one who believes that God spoke, and it was, demonstrates that many will clearly attest intelligent design to a virus but not the Creation. Therefore, facts attest nothing; it is your bias that determines the meaning of any fact. Ultimately, which bias is the best bias to be biased with?

      In the beginning…

      12

      • #
        Marc Major

        Not to give the game away but if you believe that a naturally occurring organism (the Covid 19 virus) displays evidence of design (and thus not natural); why can we not believe other Teleological arguments concerning the creation of the universe by God?

        A definition of Teleological from Merriam-Webster

        Teleological:

        Exhibiting or relating to design or purpose especially in nature.

        12

      • #
        Marc Major

        Dear Moderator,

        I appreciate the clearly theological nature of my comments. However, I believe the nature of my question clearly impinges on the arguments of those that believe the Covid 19 virus was manufactured. I meant to display a dichotomy of thought in ascribing design to natural occurrences. If we believe design and intelligence in the existence of the Covid 19 virus; why cannot such intelligence be ascribed ot large things; eg. the Cretion.

        Not to give the game away but if you believe that a naturally occurring organism (the Covid 19 virus) displays evidence of design (and thus not natural); why can we not believe other Teleological arguments concerning the creation of the universe by God?

        A definition of Teleological from Merriam-Webster

        Teleological:

        Exhibiting or relating to design or purpose especially in nature.

        12

        • #
          Marc Major

          Apologies for the poor typing.

          “If we believe design and intelligence in the existence of the Covid 19 virus; why cannot such intelligence be ascribed ot large things; eg. the Cretion.”…

          Should be;

          “If we believe design and intelligence exists in the Covid 19 virus; why cannot such intelligence be ascribed to larger things; eg. the Creation.”

          12

        • #
          AndyG55

          “clearly impinges on the arguments of those that believe the Covid 19 virus was manufactured.”

          Yes, and a chocolate mud cake could be created naturally by “intelligent design”

          30

  • #
    DonS

    In no way this could be a result of natural evolution.

    Oh really? Just because we haven’t seen it before we must jump to the conclusion it was made by someone? Not a very scientific state of mind I would say.

    Let the investigations find what they might but first we need a full independent investigation. Crack pot hypothesis buy people who know how to use the jargon of a particular field of study are amusing but not particularly useful.

    As always in science extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof gained by verifiable, validated and independently replicated experimentation. I would have thought that with the number of virologists around the world working on this at the moment we would have more than one source to back this story up.

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    • #
      Steve of Cornubia

      If you can argue – with evidence or logic – that the above concerns of EXPERTS in this field have regarding the origins of this virus, then please go ahead.

      Until then, all you’re offering is fact-free denial.

      160

    • #
      Steve of Cornubia

      “Crack pot hypothesis buy people who know how to use the jargon of a particular field of study are amusing but not particularly useful.’

      “Amusing”? Really?

      100

    • #

      DonS, have you read the Nerdhaspower blog? The extraordinary detail. I can’t independently confirm what he says, but everything there fits with what I know of genetics and virology. It would appear to be highly skilled work.

      Nature does not add noise to some areas, freeze other genes, and irradiate only parts of a viral particle. This is not random.

      Someone is trying to cover up something.

      373

    • #
      DonA

      “extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof gained by verifiable, validated and independently replicated experimentation.”

      You mean like the extraordinary claim of CO2 caused CAGW?

      I wish it were so.

      141

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Yet another CCP apologist.
      Oh well now Ii know where you are coming from Don and that your eyes are wide shut,
      I don’t have to consider what you are saying..

      56

    • #
      Roger Knights

      “As always in science extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof ….”

      But it’s not extraordinary to claim that the CCP would tell its virologists to fake a natural source. It’s what one would expect.

      101

  • #
    Gary

    Watch Dr Joseph Mercola interview Dr Judy Mikovits a true expert who refused to destroy her data

    90

  • #
    MrGrimNasty

    Who (not WHO!) knows the truth? I’m not one for conspiracy theories, just conspiracy fact i.e. the political agenda(s) driving climate alarmism.

    Sometimes with a careful assessment of all the available evidence, it is possible to expose conspiracies, like the faked Syria chemical attacks used to justify the bombing, which was subsequently confirmed as faked – and then quietly veiled, beyond any reasonable doubt.

    I doubt this virus is a case that can be solved by amateur sleuths either way.

    If the virus was man-made and known/suspected by the security services and feared to be potentially very potent, that would at least explain the completely illogical ‘lockdown’ reaction.

    43

    • #
      TdeF

      The lockdown is completely logical. Unless you have another solution to the exponential spread of a killer pathogen.

      1311

      • #

        Tdef,

        How is an economically destructive lock down of everyone to protect a tiny fraction of the population who are vulnerable to severe consequences logical?

        It’s well established that if you’re under 60, your chances of succumbing to this virus is indistinguishable from the risk of a more conventional flu and those who are most vulnerable are just as vulnerable to any flu or even the common cold. When caught early and treated, which a lock down actually prevents, the chances of a bad outcome are further reduced, especially among the most vulnerable. What sets the china virus apart from others is not it’s fatality rate, but that it’s significantly more contagious that most other viral infections and many become infected without symptoms allowing it to spread further while most people who exhibit symptoms will self isolate on their own. This tells me that any lock down that still allows human to human contact will only extend the length of time that this virus is in the population and is the exact opposite of what’s required.

        In the US, a large fraction of the fatalities have been in nursing homes in those states where local officials (exclusively Democrats) dictated that china virus patients be sent back to their nursing home to recover which is also the exact opposite of what needed to be done. This has drastically inflated the early fatality rate especially when combining those who passed with the virus with those who passed from the virus.

        I’m really sick of this greater good crap. So far, debt spending on this exceeds $10K per person in the US and Pelosi wants to add another $10k of debt per person to bail out mismanaged states under the guise of covid recovery spending. Putting this in perspective, it’s millions of dollars per vulnerable individual to extend their lives by only a few months in many cases. This could have been addressed in a much more cost effective manner, but fear has infected too many minds to address the problem rationally, much like the fear of climate change has infected the minds of otherwise sane people.

        The better solution is early identification and treatment with any of the many drug cocktails that reduce the severity and length of the infection. Allowing economies to self destruct while waiting for a cure or a vaccine is insane when a little self awareness combined with personal responsibility can have the same effect.

        Yes, every life lost is tragic, but so is destroying the economy. A little perspective is due and for full disclosure, I’m in the higher risk population.

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        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Many would agree. I do.

          Additionally, the bizarre political events everywhere around the world give no confidence to believe that this latest cause celebre is deserving of the treatment it’s been given.

          In the last decade we’ve endured politically inspired border collapse world wide and especially in Europe where Law and Order has been dismissed by the Elites as unnecessary for the “workers”.

          Still, despite the obvious contempt for the hard working people of the nominal democracies, there has been remarkably little push back. Tractor protests in the Netherlands and street gatherings in France have been put down easily and across the water in the USA the media mesmerisation continues to largely subdue taxpayers.

          The political visions of the Watt Tyler events for Britain and the Commonwealth, the guidelines of the U.S. Founding fathers, all subverted by the Politically Correct Memes of Climate Change, Compassion for ” displaced” persons and now: The Monster Virus.

          Devotion to the rule of law, your hard work and thrift, all dismissed as irrelevant by the Macron, OBama, Pelosi, Merkel new world order Elitist Clones.

          Pol Pot and Adolph would be so envious at what’s been achieved with just Media Mesmerisation and distribution of “free money”.

          How far has mankind come in the last two thousand years.

          Not far at all.

          KK

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          • #

            The small amount of push back here is for 3 reasons. One is political where many think that hurting the economy hurts Trump in the next election, another is the flight response to the fight or flight reflex driven by the fear of getting it yourself and the last is avoiding guilt for inadvertently passing it on to someone else who may or may not be at risk. The last two should apply just as rigorously regarding any communicable disease, many of which can also have asymptomatic carriers, which is especially true for many STD’s.

            The parallels to climate alarmism offer an intriguing insight into behavior. The political reason influences the same people at the same level. The difference is in the projection of guilt and fear, where there’s no fear of individual harm, it’s all about a collective fear of harming the future which only triggers guilt and the fight or flight fear trigger isn’t being engaged. The alarmists ‘jump the shark moment’ may come when they try to present CO2 emissions as a serious health hazard in order to trigger the more powerful emotional response.

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          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Agreed. I raised this a while back but was laughed at……

            I understand the globalists very well, it appears that while the virus itself is bad, the *real* target was long term trashing of economies and rebuilding the world into a “new reality” as the media keeps crowing about. The fact the US Prez has said the military will “deliver” a vaccine to everyone should scare the pants off people if youre honest with yourself and see it for what it really is. America is being taken down to a military dictatorship from within. Trump is just a globalist bag boy.

            From chaos, Order.

            44

            • #

              OS,
              America isn’t becoming a military dictatorship and Trump is the furthest thing from a globalist. Trump was referencing using the military to get vaccine to where it’s needed quickly, not to force people to get a shot. The dictatorships that have arisen are mostly in Democratic strongholds where the goal is to keep the economy suppressed by what amounts to marshal law. It’s likely you’ve been influnced by media reports trying to hide the truth by projecting their fellow progressives megalomania on Trump.

              142

        • #
          Plain Jane

          I dont have a particularly cogent argument here, just an idea and a feeling. I call BS on the massive financial cost directly caused by the virus itself. How can it cost $10K per individual in the USA already, when those individuals dont earn, or produce $10K worth of value in that time. I dont get how it is useful to give squillions of (computer generated, we are past printed) bucks to your banker mates within the first few weeks of lockdown or else what? The banks go broke? Yeah, right, sure. This is not thought through by me, but maybe the economic crisis is being created by governments, maybe just like the biologic crisis of the virus itself is created by governments. I think the Chinese are possibly pee’d off by being accused when its likely the Chinese and USA made this thing together. Both countries financed and worked on the project. Fauci did say in 2017 it was coming after Trump got in. The Chinese and the Swamp in the USA both hate Trump. The virus plays into the hands of Big Government everywhere. Letting the virus get out of control and kill lots of oldies is NOT going to stop the destructive governments spending invented money and invading our lives. There has supposed to have been an economic meltdown coming for ages. Now world governments have an excuse that it is not their fault when the crash does happen. I call BS on the economic crisis and extent of economic damage – if Co2isno is right and the american govt spends $20K per citizen in the first few weeks of lockdown it does not make sense to blame that on the lockdown. It does not cost that much to put up soup kitchens. That amount of megabucks is going back into the Swamp of public servants and cronies and banking and is being used for the destruction of civil society, not its support.

          61

  • #
    Crakar24

    The smoking gun is the PRRA cleavage site which enables the virus to enter the cell as it is triggered by furin.

    Neither the ratg13 or the pangolin variant has the amino acid sequence….. So where did the insertion come from?

    280

  • #
    TdeF

    There was real doubt that this was laboratory made, despite the mounting evidence and the 2017 paper where the Wuhan Virus Laboratory announced that they had made the Horseshoe bat virus infective by adding part of the Aids virus, which is exactly what this is.

    However the very aggressive response to anyone, any country questioning whether it was made in China is really significant. Plus this very poor attempt at faking the existence of the virus in 2013 using a cut and paste RNA generated by a word processor.

    If the virus was made in the US lab and released by US servicemen in the Military World Games in October 2019 as is now alleged by the Chinese government, why are they not really excited about proving this infamy by the Americans? Why aren’t they really anxious to help expose the American villains? Why did they destroy their samples? And why is Australia being threatened with major trade sanctions just for proposing an investigation?

    354

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      TdeF:
      My view will upset many. I think the virus was released inadvertently from the Wuhan Virus laboratory. It has been stated (in print) by the Chinese that it was in the Laboratory. There are claims that experimental animals were sold into Wuhan by a former Director (now apparently making no public statements). That there might have been some infections in October or November in Wuhan have not been proven but are likely true as similar claims for Nov./Dec. have been made in other countries, despite no (published) test results.
      It seems likely that there was an outbreak in Wuhan last year but was covered up by the local authorities, who allowed millions of people to disperse across China for the lunar holidays. It was the increasing death toll which shook the Central CPC into action. Faced with a synthetic virus of unknown danger, they panicked and started the brutal shutdown in Wuhan, while frantically building hospitals and purchasing PPE overseas. As the virus spread and it proved to be much less lethal than feared, they (Central Committee) set about gaining an advantage for China by donating/selling scarce PPE to stricken countries. They also started a propaganda blitz via the WHO and anyone else they found gullible enough.
      There is no way that they want an investigation and won’t agree to one, and will try and bully anyone who tries. But apparently 62 countries want one.
      Further they face some resistance within China, which they are responding to with increased suppression. (They have cut off 21 million mobile phone accounts. Unlikely they have had that many deaths, but more likely these are second phones used for criticising officials, from President Xi downwards.
      Externally they have shown up the deficiencies in relying on China to supply. This will lead to many countries relocating their supply chains elsewhere, which will cause a loss of industry (and jobs) in China. The loss of jobs will further add to the CPC problems. They will struggle to stay in power.

      322

      • #
        TdeF

        That seems a reasonable summary of the known facts. It has all happened which has now killed a quarter of a million people. And the US Secretary of State has agreed with everything you have said and he is in a position to know.

        The real problem was that WHO hid it, refused to declare a pandemic, denied it was infectious and said borders did not have to be closed. And Nancy Pelosi said Trump was a racist Xenophobe. And the President of the EU did much the same.

        However you can put most of the deaths down to the President of WHO. The Previous president stopped the previous pandemics, but not this one. He is still defending China.

        225

  • #
    a happy little debunker

    The duplicity of the CCP has been laid bare with their attempts at punishing peoples (like Australia) via trade tariffs.
    People who simply want an open and transparent investigation into the source of the virus.
    BTW, if the CCP truly believed it’s own propaganda – that it was a US virus – then they themselves would want such an investigation.

    China lies, people die!

    p.s. I have no problem with the Chinese people – they don’t have a say in what their overseers do – for proof of that look to Honkers.

    241

  • #
    cedarhill

    Interesting article at Watts Up With That:

    Downward Virus Flux in Earth’s Atmosphere Is Over Three Billion Viruses Per Square Meter Per Day

    So close the borders and send a not to Mother Gaia since the wind can spread it?

    What is perhaps more interesting is the series of questions raised (even presuming it’s only 95% “natural”) for those that would skip the body of the article:

    In the meantime, I have probed deeper into the philosophical question of death itself, in asking this: If death is a part of life, and viruses are natural parts of life as we know it, then is a death caused by a virus a death by “natural causes”? What exactly is a death by natural causes? What exactly is death by old age? Are the old who are dying allegedly because of the SARS-CoV-2 virus undergoing the dying process of old age? Is that part of what it means to die of old age?

    Is our current fear of COVID-19 a fear spawned of childish fragmentation from reality, where we have grown so accustomed to the protections and comforts of our modern civilizations that we have lost touch with survival of the fittest? — during an era when so many people are physically unfit?

    Is our current fear a result of an unprecedented number of people coming to terms with the very idea of death for the first time? — young people (constantly interacting electronically), wanting to live forever, watching older people succumb to a seemingly routine process?

    Is our current fear, therefore, irrational, as it causes leaders to halt the operation of civilization, in a panic to protect life? I certainly have my own answer to this last question, which is yes — an answer that I have held onto, since day one of the first shutdown.

    72

  • #
    RickWill

    It is unlikely such information about the virus, if man made rather than natural, will have much impact outside China. We already know that China wilfully spread the virus around the globe while controlling it to the best of their ability internally. Surely that is sufficient to condemn the country: but which country can enjoy the standard of living achieved globally in 2019 without China. It is clear that China is now the spoilt brat of world (maybe bully); willing to take their toys away if you do not play their way.

    Finding that the virus was man made, if so, in China, could harm the CCP in terms of its public perception but does that matter. It is not as if the CCP are going to be voted out of power!

    That aside, I have asked a geneticist to review the NerdHasPower blog and give an opinion.

    I am happy to be living in Australia. Quite confident that Australia has learnt how to deal with CV19 and keep it under control. I am a little concerned for Europe and the US that they will continue to live with the virus for a few more months but I think they can begin to get back to some level of normalcy. It is far better to be encouraging people out of quarantine in a controlled fashion than trying to manage street riots.

    Many countries in South America are still scrapping with the virus with little sign they are managing their situations.

    Brazil, Mexico, Russia and India are the big countries to watch. They could be battling for a long time.

    Wikipedia shows there are 232 recognised countries across the globe. The CV19 data shows all but 37 are managing their CV19 cases. Some countries are yet to show internal spread of the virus. It is likely data on Africa is slow to come out.

    Spain, Italy and Belgium provide solid evidence that the virus spread can be managed and knocked down very quickly. Having learnt the lesson, it is now time to see if their economies can get back to something like normal while managing the virus spread.

    The focus needs to be an orderly return to business. Hopefully it will be a better story than a few months back when businesses were shutting down.

    At grass roots level in Australia, there is considerable thought being put into how social distancing can be managed in workplaces of every variety. I do not like crowds so eating out may be an enjoyable experience again.

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  • #
    markx

    Very compelling.

    Except compounding the matter with vague implications regarding Fauci’s ‘role’ is counterproductive, giving the article a bit of a crackpot feel that it very likely doesn’t deserve.
    The CDC wanting to know what was happening with Chinese bat virus research would seem to be a very sensible stance, and providing funding would provide legitimate access to the labs and their research.

    If there is somehow, somewhere, evidence that links Dr Fauci to some dastardly complicated plot, perhaps we should wait until it fully surfaces before trying to drag his name through the mud.

    82

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      The Obama administration banned such virus research in 2015.
      Fauci then redirected CDC funding to China for the same type of research.
      Who needs enemies when you’ve got friends like him ?
      And just why is advising Trump ?

      115

  • #
    WXcycles

    Globally, deaths as a proportion of the total cases has begun to fall.

    Have a careful look at the two graphs on the linked page, the total cases graph is a straight line upwards, but the deaths graph is curving over more and more during the past 3 weeks. They were both straight and matching each other prior to that, which means the proportion of people dying suddenly started to drop noticeably during the past 3 to 4 weeks, for reasons unknown.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    I’m guessing this is partially due to a better understanding of the nature of the disease, as a blood infection not a respiratory illness, which has resulted in different approaches to treatment, which is becoming more successful with time.

    However, this could also be what occurs if we were seeing the spreading of a less lethal strain, though I doubt that’s what accounts for it.

    The following are 5 graphs which show the pattern in much clearer detail.

    Deaths as a percentage of the total cases on-going rise began to shrink:
    https://i.ibb.co/0syXDTM/Percent-of-Active-Cases-That-Died-Global.png

    But deaths as a percentage of the active case’s rise remained stable, rising very slowly still:
    https://i.ibb.co/qMxFLgD/Percent-Who-Died-Of-All-Cases-Global.png

    Recently the new cases began to accelerate slightly once again:
    https://i.ibb.co/9yYPjCz/Daily-Deaths-Global.png

    But the new deaths fell slightly:
    https://i.ibb.co/9V39Rhr/Daily-Change-in-Total-Cases-Global.png

    Now consider that confounding situation, we had 1 million cases on April 2nd, and ~6.5 weeks later we have ~4.8 million cases, yet the daily deaths went down over this period!

    H O W ?

    This is very suspicious, think about how that could even occur? It looks like massive systematic under-reporting of deaths is occurring. Either, “a blood miracle” has occurred during the past 4 to 5 weeks, or countries are hiding hundreds of thousands of COVID-19 corpses which they don’t want to report, or medicine just made a great leap forward globally, and no one’s talking about it yet.

    Here’s what these fewer deaths did to the cases-curve factor and to the deaths curve factors:
    https://i.ibb.co/26krk3C/Case-Curve-Died-Curve-and-Active-Curve.png

    Right now the Western world infection is relatively slowing down, but the developing-world is beginning to accelerate at the same time (as is seen in their daily spreading percentages), so the two influences combined, slowing in some countries but accelerating in others, is making the overall curves (shown in the last graph) to look roughly ‘flat’ for the past several weeks.

    But if we separate western countries, the large western infection is decelerating, but the smaller developing world infection is quickly accelerating, so these changes are masking each other, for a few more weeks, into early June. But you can already see that recent new-cases are accelerating within the third graph (the tangerine one) given above.

    So if a general ‘reopening’ in the West occurs and goes poorly, this will add many new cases to the mix in early June, then the purple active-curve trendline in the last graph will start to rise above the yellow trendline.

    As long as the purple line stays below the yellow line, we’re still growing exponentially, yes, but at a steady and slowish rate. But if the purple line goes significantly above the yellow line, for a few weeks, we’re in for many millions of new cases to be added in a short period.

    And I do expect the purple line to rise above the yellow line in June as the developed-world infection grows greatly. Except for one thing! If there’s almost no testing in the developing-world, and there won’t be, then the purple line won’t go up, even when it should be going up. Because without the testing there will be no known new active cases added — is which case the purple line might fall when it should rise.

    In other words, we won’t see a new hump form in those curves, or get much warning that a new hump has already formed, until mass-graves physically start to appear all over the developing-world within satellite images, because such deaths may not get reported (we’ll see).

    But what’s for sure is, we’re in for a much bigger global infection to build up during the next 3 months. I think we’ve seen ~3% of what’s still to come. It may seem like this has been going on for 6 months so we must be approaching a ‘peak’, right? But that’s wrong, if this were the 1918 pandemic the doctors would only now be becoming generally aware of a deadly new flu during the past 6 weeks – and this would rightly still be seen as the beginning.

    But technology allowed us to examine the earlier beginnings in much detail and we’ve failed to realize that 96% to 97% of the first wave’s total cases buildup may still be coming. People expect this to end, but there’s literally no reason why it needs to end. This can continue to build global active cases for literally another year or more. It may not decline to a low level until late 2021, or even mid 2022.

    Around the 20th of March I projected the globe would reach 1 million total cases on April 1st (+/- 1 day) and it was reached on the 2nd of April. At the moment this same projection approach indicates we reach 6.5 million cases on the 1st of June (+/- ~1 day). And at the same spreading rate it’ll reach 12 million on the 1st of July.

    In other words, even with the recent more ‘stable’ global spreading rate, the total-cases double every month. And it’s almost 23 million cases by August 1st, and 43 million on September 1st.

    See the problem?

    It may slow down for a few weeks, and equally it might speed-up for a few weeks. But I’m presuming no acceleration change in these numbers. But with 4.8 million total cases today it only takes a quite small rise in the purple line in that last graph to accelerate beyond those numbers, so that they double in 2 weeks, instead of in 4 weeks. And this can very easily happen now.

    So our problem is there’s no reason why this multiplication must end and it probably won’t. And it’s not clear if more than a quite small fraction of the western world has the stomach to do what’s needed to end it. In fact it’s entirely possible for the world to have 50 times the current number of active cases, when the US presidential election comes around.

    Indeed, the USA could easily have 5 to 10 million active cases internally on that day.

    But consider this, what if China has less than 100 known active cases in November?

    The scale of the pickle we’re in, is much greater than people appreciate, and the sooner we realize the strategic nature of that outcome, the sooner well make sure it doesn’t happen that way.

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      Mikky

      This may just be an artifact of the changing nature of “total cases”, which initially were mostly serious cases of the people in hospital, but now includes a lot more non-hospital cases via the testing of health care and other workers.

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        Environment Skeptic

        Yes we need more granularity WX ..Better resolution. Less speculation.

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        • #

          Yes, WX is speculating to create worst case scenarios, just like Ferguson did in the UK with his projection of between 250,000 and 500,000 deaths.
          Epidemic behaviour is far more complex.

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            WXcycles

            WX is speculating to create worst case scenarios

            An empty accusation.

            Due to the nature of positive exponential growth (and that’s what it still is btw) it’s actually NECESSARY to project it forwards to see where its going.

            Only a fool would not.

            And can you please explain (rationally, logically and numerically) why you apparently think the disease will stop growing, when lock downs in the UK and USA plus other Western countries have been half-hearted and porous to date, and now being downgraded or given lower priority than the economy?

            What exactly is going to stop it growing at its current rate of 1.02 to 1.025 before Sept 1st, Stephen?

            Or do you actually agree, that what I’m pointing out is more or less realistic projection of where we’ll end up? That the infection will continue to grow, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, but grow from now to September, due to a lack of any serious efforts or method remaining to eliminate the virus?

            If you think that’s wrong, please explain why? Try not to speculate about the future with observed number trends though, I hear that’s a naughty thing when using numbers (so let’s trust your baseless opinions instead?).

            Will a miracle occur and it all just goes away?

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          WXcycles

          Yes we need more granularity WX ..Better resolution.

          You whine about granularity a lot but never provide any on the global scale, and not once do you indicate where you think your granularity-schtick is going to magically appear from?

          Please explain how you think ‘granularity’ will be possible in a global data set of national data sets, that are updated and edited on the fly, and compiled in 24 hour increments? But of course you have no answers to any real-world practical questions how this will occur, but you’ll be back with more unrealistic bleats about ‘granularity’, which will never be available to us in a useful and accessible time frame to use.

          That’s real useful blah-blah! We also need Rudolf running Santa’s imaginary sled team but I give that the same chance of emanating into the material cosmos as your ‘granularity’-schtick’s chances of sallying forth from the junkyard of myth and imagination.

          I’ll keep analyzing the available observations while you’re doing this.

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        WXcycles

        I agree that’s a factor in the under-reported corpses, Peter.

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      rowingboat

      There is much more testing of the general population, which demonstrates that everyone (except maybe young kids according to evidence reported by Dr. John Campbell) has equal chance of catching the virus. However, the virus predominantly kills people over 60 so this explains why deaths as a proportion of total cases is falling.

      Furthermore, and as you explain, our understanding of the virus is so much better now. We know how to better protect our elderly who are most at risk in nursing homes. So the rate of new deaths is falling.

      A few weeks ago Dr. Vladimir Zelenko mentioned in an interview that he was advising health experts in Israel and Ukraine, his country of birth. He mentioned Ukraine has an aging demographic, 25% over 60 or something like that and was therefore particularly at risk. So I’ve been watching these countries ever since… high numbers of cases but relatively few deaths. I like to think Zelenko’s preventative cocktail is helping there.

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      • #
        rowingboat

        I like to think Zelenko’s therapeutic cocktail is helping there.

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      • #
        WXcycles

        Thank you for that perspective, much appreciated.

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          rowingboat

          You’re welcome, WXcycles. I like data too and make a point to read your perspectives and insights here each afternoon. I have faith in the human race, to protect our elderly whether South American, African or Asian, using the internet to communicate at an individual level what works.

          I was at first dismayed when Dr. Campbell presented a publication dismissing the benefits of hydroxy-chloroquine, but then heartened to read the literally hundreds and hundreds of informed criticisms of this paper in the comments section of his Youtube channel.

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    UK-Weather Lass

    Back on the weekend following 21 February 2020, Prof Boyle made a pretty strong case that SARS-CoV-2 was a ‘Gain Of Function’ (weaponized) virus on the US ‘Alex Jones Show’ having read through science papers past to him. I think there was a (now banned) video of the show together with a facsimile log of the discussion. A headline to the item on that show suggested China bought* the weaponized virus from the US (*note the word bought and not brought although it is often hard to know in today’s media if this was a spelling mistake).

    I am not sure how many separate accounts I have read about the potential that this is a man-made virus rather than a natural mutation but they are still theories and not facts. Indeed there is stuff on the internet suggesting dangerous developments during the attempts to find a ‘deal with all’ coronavirus vaccine, going back many years.

    Repeating unsupported theories or misleading stuff from different sources shouldn’t work with climate change. Why should it work with SARS-CoV-2 and if, in the event it is completely true the virus was sold by US to China and was deliberately released, what do we do next? (I am being rhetorical and not inviting answers)

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      Bill In Oz

      Curious how this post on the Wuhan origins of the virus
      Shows up all who the CCP apologists are amongst us.
      In fact Jo this post was worth going through in detail for that reason alone

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        Kalm Keith

        Exactly.
        Undeniable apologists.
        Well spotted.

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        Joe

        Bill you seem to be championing on this call for an ‘open and transparent investigation’ while at the same time publicly declaring China’s ‘obvious’ culpability and suggesting that Jo use the opportunity flush out the reds under the bed on this blog by identifying anyone that questions your or the mainstream narrative. I would have thought that ‘open and transparent’ suggested ‘without confirmation bias’. How is it that you ‘know’ the truth but the rest of the world needs to spend money on an investigation? How is it that you know what the spooks get up to when great sums go toward keeping things secret?
        Is there a small chance that an ‘open and transparent investigation’ means absolutely nothing in this geopolitical world? Was the Skripal investigation by our UN friends ‘open and transparent’ when Russia had no chance to present any evidence? Was the Syria gassing investigation by our UN friends ‘open and transparent’ when Syria and its allies were not able to present any evidence? Was the downing of the plane over the Ukraine ‘open and transparent’ when Russia had no input? Apparently yes to all of the above because it was your and Australia’s opinion. So I guess truth and fact are just in-the-eye-of-beholder things. The Chinese will have one truth, US will have their own, Australia with have theirs, the right, theirs and the left, theirs and you, yours.

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          Bill In Oz

          Joe troll, why the investigation is needed so that China’s CCP can be shown up for waht they are.
          I know what the truth is
          But most folk need independent evidence.
          What will you do when it’s all assembled Joe troll ?
          Change jobs ?

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      OriginalSteve

      Dr Mikovitz commented the virus itself has been accelerated in its mutatons in a lab to the point of its current ability that would normaly take natually 700 years.

      What if the virus “dirty work” development had been offshored for plausabile deniability?

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    Richard Ran

    The corona hoax so far: unvalidated, utterly unspecific RT-qPCR “test”, i.e. cyclical amplification of non-specific nanoparticles of RNA/DNA, to help create the COVID-19 panic; added ICD-code for COVID-19 boosting corona fatality rates; health care workers advised to code any death possibly connected to this new “virus” as a COVID-19 death (which amounts to an abuse of the dead); the Imperial College computer aided story telling (a.k.a. modelling) by herd mentality fearleader in chief, Mr Ferguson; the utterly corrupt labcoated pseudoscientists from Erasmus MC (Rotterdam) of the Koopmans/Osterhaus crime syndicate, raking in the cash with all of their SARS-CoV-2 patents (just like they patented the MERS hoax).

    Most importantly though, there’s the ever missing link plaguing the cult of virology: actual scientific proof of any of these “viruses” existing after proper isolation/purification according to Koch’s (or even Rivers’) postulates.
    The electron microscopic pictures (also courtesy of Erasmus MC scientists, stationed at MT Sinai) never show, and have never shown, any isolated virus of any kind (duckduck “exosomes” to understand why). Evidently, the syndicated panic pimps won’t let such lack of fundamental scientific evidence get in the way of yet another very lucrative “pandemic” scare.

    So yeah, in a way there’s at least some measure of truth captured in this quote from the article:

    “The virus that SARS-CoV-2 is supposed to have evolved from looks unmistakeably artificial.”

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    Analitik

    Video presentation on this about a week ago by Chris Martenson of Peak Prosperity

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/covid-19-a-result-of-lab-manipulation-suspicions-grow/

    And another one a week earlier about the furin cleavage site and early suspicions about RaTG13
    https://www.peakprosperity.com/more-evidence-covid-19-may-not-be-natural/

    Topic first brought up at start of May including the Dr Fauci funding link
    https://www.peakprosperity.com/bombshell-covid-19-virus-lab-made-fauci-connected/

    Lots of other good material about the Coronavirus outbreak on that site (as well as critical analysis of Central Bank insanity) https://www.peakprosperity.com/tag/coronavirus/

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    Richard Ilfeld

    I would like to say the west, collectively, is at war with China.
    This is, however, not really compatible with a modern conflict, which can occur without ships and planes except as backup.
    I believe an accurate characterization is that the Chinese government believes that is the world there can be only one hegemon,
    which dictates the terms of influence thus trade and prosperity to itself, and China is ready and able to take on that role.
    This role can be assumed by any means necessary. In the past, conflict by direct conquest on a world basis has usually failed in the
    long run, so a broader approach is being taken.
    It hardly matters whether the virus was an overt, covert, or accidental action. What matters that China is fully prepared to take whatever
    advantage it can of the circumstances. Human life has essentially no value to the CCP. Western notions or nations cooperating under stress
    are quaint signs of weakness to be exploited. It must be a joy to the Chinese government that so many in the west buy into their propaganda
    in spite of their actions, it must confirm their view of the weakness of the west, and possibly the notion that they have more to fear from their
    own people than from the other nations of the world.

    It is beyond naive to believe they were not working on bio weapons because “they promised not to”.

    It is also totally irrelevant to the basics whether this was a leak from a lab or a stupid bat in a wet market; it the the actions after that are an act of war.

    It is, however, highly important to understand the scope of evil we are dealing with, and this makes a difference there.

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      RickWill

      It is also totally irrelevant to the basics whether this was a leak from a lab or a stupid bat in a wet market; it the the actions after that are an act of war.

      Anyone giving it some thought would have to wonder what was playing out in China when Wuhan was cut off internally but not cut off from the rest of the world. There is little doubt that the virus was deadly to many when Wuhan was isolated. Does China have so little regard for the rest of the world that they did not think to protect the rest of the globe; were they saving face by trying to down play the risk; did they plan to disrupt the rest of the world so they would not be disadvantaged by the virus (weaken every country).

      The genesis of the virus is not the point. China’s motives really do not matter because it was widely known outside China that the virus was deadly by the time it was being released into the rest of the world. The fundamental failing was with the World Health Organisation. I am hopeful that it is fully defunded because it failed in its prime duty. Not only failed, it was complicit in spreading the virus globally. KEEP FOCUS WHERE FOCUS IS DUE.

      First and foremost, the upcoming WHO summit in October should condemn the organisation to the corner file. It is corrupt at its core and cannot be salvaged. It is always the case with unelected bodies. Lifetime administrators are never called to account.

      Maybe an audit of biosecure laboratories across the globe is in order; in case the CV19 virus was accidentally released. Better value than a witch hunt focused solely on China.

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  • #
    John Tillman

    The article correctly uses U when first mentioning the genetic code, but then switches to T. RNA has U; DNA T.

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      Broadie

      A bit like Dr Shi’s coding half way through then a smoko break and loses the plot. The Uracil error could just be a mistake of the very basic kind.

      I’m still wondering about the CoV-1 vs Cov-2 elephant in this room. I thought they were relatively similar so would be subject to a common heritage.

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    Roger Knights

    Below is a comment made a month ago on the site of Chiefio at https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/04/17/reopening-the-u-s-economy/ :
    ——–

    Nobel prize winner Prof Montagnier says that to insert HIV sequences “can only be done in a lab”:
    at https://www.gilmorehealth.com/chinese-coronavirus-is-a-man-made-virus-according-to-luc-montagnier-the-man-who-discovered-hiv/
    Dr Luc Montagnier the man who discovered the HIV virus back in 1983 disagrees and is saying that the virus was man made.
    According to Professor Luc Montagnier, winner of the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 2008 for “discovering” HIV as the cause of the AIDS epidemic together with Françoise Barré-Sinoussi, the SARS-CoV-2 is a virus that was manipulated and accidentally released from a laboratory in Wuhan, China, in the last quarter of 2019.

    “With my colleague, bio-mathematician Jean-Claude Perez, we carefully analyzed the description of the genome of this RNA virus,” explains Luc Montagnier, interviewed by Dr Jean-François Lemoine for the daily podcast at Pourquoi Docteur, adding that others have already explored this avenue: Indian researchers have already tried to publish the results of the analyses that showed that this coronavirus genome contained sequences of another virus, … the HIV virus (AIDS virus), but they were forced to withdraw their findings as the pressure from the mainstream was too great. –  The podcast is in French
    at https://www.pourquoidocteur.fr/Articles/Question-d-actu/32184-EXCLUSIF-Pour-Pr-Montagnier-SARS-CoV-2-serait-virus-manipule-Chinois-l-ADN-de-VIH-podcast

    *  Zerohedge for more. at https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid-19-man-made-virus-hiv-discoverer-says-could-only-have-been-created-lab?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+zerohedge/feed+(zero+hedge+-+on+a+long+enough+timeline,+the+survival+rate+for+everyone+drops+to+zero)
    *
    * The Indian Paper by Pradnan et al, describing the four HIC inserts
    * at https://imgur.com/a/vsNbDty

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  • #
    Ruairi

    Not good for foreign relations,
    Or peace and goodwill between nations,
    If from proof it is known,
    That COVID was grown,
    In a lab and has dodgy mutations.

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  • #

    One wonders whether there are manufactured viruses in existence with far greater infective capability and lethality.
    The only restraint on deliberate release being the vulnerability of the creator in the absence of a vaccine.
    The biological equivalent of mutual assured destruction in the field of nuclear weapons.
    Our greatest risk to survival of the species is modern technology in the wrong hands and/or Murphy’s Law which states that if something can go wrong then it will.
    In relation to Covid 19 it looks like a moderately severe but non-apocalyptic virus which may set back our technologically improved life expectancies for a period of time.
    Hopefully, this episode will result in far tighter control of biological science and of nations which fail to observe cultural norms. It is the authoritarian states which are the main problem but overly bureaucratic, nominally democratic states are going in that direction too. The ratcheting slide towards increased social control via increasing regulation in democratic states is pulling us all towards authoritarianism.

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      WXcycles

      Tell it to Doctors and Nurses, they wear them to stop from catching the infection, the patients don’t wear them as they already have the infection. … GreenMed?

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    Broadie

    Interesting post thanks JO.

    The virus that SARS-CoV-2 is supposed to have evolved from looks unmistakably artificial — in sections it contains far too many “mutations” that matter but hardly any of the normal noise of silent mutations which always occur naturally alongside the mutations which change the end product.

    How close is the SARS-CoV-1 to the ‘wild’ virus?

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  • #
    • #

      No. It’s 500 billion for the thousands of people that didn’t die.

      (Or you could view it as the 500 billion we had to spend to keep those flights open for six weeks too long in February-March)

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      Kalm Keith

      The Vietnam situation backs this up.

      Seventy million people under 45 years of age out of a total population of 95 million.

      Strong isolating action, young population and no deaths.

      The local environment has a big say in the CV19 epidemic.

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    Ed

    I wouldn’t be too hard on Dr. Shi Zhengli, because if she doesn’t do what her communist-socialist leaders tell her to do she will be murdered!
    (And her organs sold to the highest bidders).
    The CCP, including Xi, is really the ones we should hold accountable.

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    Richard C (NZ)

    >”Two of these papers appeared in Nature”

    ‘How Huxley’s X-Club Created Nature Magazine & Sabotaged Science For 150 Years’

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/how-huxleys-x-club-created-nature-magazine-sabotaged-science-150-years

    Nuff said.

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    Joe

    It is hard to know whether the dog is wagging the tail or the tail is wagging the dog with the USA politics. Right now the POTUS is laying the blame with China and the previous POTUS, claiming that the previous POTUS funded the work done in the lab. Mosher’s links to the Newsweek article suggest that half of the US provided funding to date occurred under the previous POTUS and the other half under the current POTUS. The article suggests that the first tranche of funds were for collection of real world viruses from animals amid the then SARS epidemic and that the POTUS had banned any research expenditure on ‘gain-of-function’ research which seemed like a reasonable position to take. The article suggests that the current POTUS reversed that decision and provided a further round of funding that could be spent on this type of research. This seems consistent with the decision to withdraw the US from any other such limitations on weapons of mass destruction and the subsequent development of new weapons and a space force. The current POTUS only made a decision to withdraw future funding to this lab well after the pandemic had spread globally which obviously was not aimed at stopping the current pandemic (other than perhaps reallocating funds).
    How does all this sit with the ongoing left/right divide when it does not seem to be a lefty scheme to overthrow industry or even the current POTUS but seems to engulf both sides of politics? Do the swampees really just dwell in the left? Any representatives from either side of that debate care to explain it a bit better for those outside the US?

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  • #

    Evidence Grows That Coronavirus Was Man-Made: The Bat Virus It “Evolved” From Appears To Be Faked…

    By JoNova ~ The claims that the current pandemic Coronavirus is natural all rely on it being 96% closely related to a natural bat virus known as the RaTG13 virus. But new analysis suggests this “natural” virus only exists as a fake creation on a Chines…

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    Matt

    I have just watched a video posted up by “In the Interests of the People”

    Edward Ted J. “Ted” Steele is an Australian molecular immunologist with interests in virology and evolution. He is an honorary research associate at the C.Y.O’Connor ERADE Village Foundation in Piara Waters, WA, Australia.

    In the video he puts together a compelling case for how it started and what the virus is and how it is spreading around the globe –

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwXKzL-yzt8

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    Michael Hammer

    I looked at the three references given at the end of the article and from what I could see all three state that the virus is almost certainly of natural origin NOT man made. If I have understood correctly this means the article claims the virus is man made yet the supporting references it cites state it is NOT man made. Normally one would expect cited references to support the claims of the article not refute them. I confess I am confused? What am I missing?

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      el gordo

      It appears counter intuitive, but it gives you the opportunity to argue against the motion.

      Until the WHO report comes down its only speculation, because we are essentially flying blind.

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        Lucky

        “Until the WHO report comes down” it is “only speculation, because we are essentially flying blind.”

        But who can trust WHO?

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    Gerald

    @ Michael Hammer

    Because the three references listed at the end of the article have been referred to ‘in’ the article.

    “A string of papers were released in February claiming the Wuhan Virus was “96% related” to a known Bat Coronavirus and was therefore natural (see Zhao et al 2020, Shan-Lu Liu, 2020, Andersen et al 2020). Two of these papers appeared in Nature. But what we didn’t know was that the RNA sequence for the original bat Coronavirus that the new pandemic evolved from, which was called RaTG13, was only registered on Jan 27th this year, despite it supposedly being discovered in 2013. The first Nature paper appeared only 6 days later. So much for Peer Review…”

    Nothing to say that you should only list references that support your point of view.

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      Michael Hammer

      Hi Gerald;
      Of course one can list references that contradict the stated thesis but it is odd if one ONLY lists contradictory references, after all one cites references to show that the thesis has wider support and backing from other researchers. I don’t know if the thesis that covid 19 was produced in a lab is true or not. While I understand the arguments I do not have the expertise to make a judgement. Maybe with time the truth will emerge but then again, given the nature of politics it probably wont. I find the severe reaction by China somewhat suspicious but again maybe its just extreme sensitivity to any form of criticism. To me the scariest thing is that whether or not Covid 19 was made in a lab clearly it COULD have been made in a lab and from the sound of the debate without any massive degree of difficulty. So even if this time it was not, there could readily be a next time when it was. The potential for mass human extinction makes the most extreme claims over CAGW pale into insignificance, especially given the rhetoric of some of the very vocal deep greens.

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    William Astley

    In China, a professional, actually any sane person would not issue altered virus code, January 27, 2020 and state it was natural which is a lie….

    William: And scientists like Zhengli are scared to death of the CCP and they would not,….

    …. unless they were contemplating suicide or years of torture followed by death, issue altered natural bat virus code without….

    …. the Complete and total support of the CCP.

    Come on get real. CCP is big brother. People disappear. If you are on the wrong side of big brother there is absolutely nowhere to run and anyone that can help.

    What we have is evidence, of a massive CCP cover-up.

    THESE ARE THE MONEY QUOTES FROM THE ABOVE ARTICLE

    …..scientists like Zhengli would not sit on a hot new natural bat virus like RaTG13 for six or seven long years without publishing it.

    Dr. Shi Zhengli is known as the Bat Woman of Wuhan Virology. We’ve already heard how her lab was central to research on Coronaviruses and how she and others were ordered to destroy all copies of the laboratory viruses on Jan 2nd this year in what appears to be a mass cover up.

    The virus that SARS-CoV-2 is supposed to have evolved from looks unmistakably artificial — in sections it contains far too many “mutations” that matter but hardly any of the normal noise of silent mutations which always occur naturally alongside the mutations which change the end product. Like someone cut and pasted multiple photos together with different background noise. Other sections of the code which ought to mutate quickly are suspiciously identical and unchanged, and didn’t mutate at all. (In the wild there is little selective pressure on something called “E Proteins” and they vary a lot in other coronaviruses. They are already mutating fast in the pandemic but somehow were “frozen” in time in RaTG13.)

    So there is zero scientific, evidence the Covid virus is natural.

    There is massive evidence of Chinese state lies concerning covid and evidence the CCP actively and purposely helped the virus spread.

    The Nature papers were sciency propaganda issue by flunkies for the Chinese. So we are in the fog of war,

    China has ‘invested’ billions in our universities. For that money, it appears academics will write lies.

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    Jo, the link in your ending line “Those who know genetics will get a lot out the collective investigation going on at NerdHasPower” is corrupt. It points to a Salon article that is limited hangout propaganda.

    I think the link you meant to use was this (found by searching):
    https://nerdhaspower.weebly.com/ratg13-is-fake.html

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    Technetium99

    Generation of Recombinant Virus
    Recombinant rYN-S2/RRKR virus containing an S protein with the furin-S2′ site was generated by vaccinia recombination, as described previously [20,28]. Briefly, plasmid with the furin-S2′ site was generated using the Seamless Assembly kit (Invitrogen, Carlsbad, CA, USA)

    The interconnecting restriction site junctions that are located at the ends of each cDNA are systematically removed during the assembly of the complete full-length cDNA product, allowing reassembly without the introduction of nucleotide changes.

    In 2003 they have used this approach again for a synthetic clone of SARS-CoV:

    To rapidly assemble consensus clones, we used class IIS restriction endonucleases that cut at asymmetric sites and leave asymmetric ends. These enzymes generate strand-specific unique overhangs that allow the seamless ligation of two cDNAs with the concomitant loss of the restriction site.

    several new restriction sites have appeared (highlighted in blue) on both sides of the new insert. Could they have been used to create a furin site? Theoretically, yes. Alternatively, the insertion could have been made via existing sites or even using the “seamless” ligation method — i.e. by creation of segments with new restriction sites which disappear after the complementary ends are joined. You might remember that the Baric group have applied this technology in 2002 to create a synthetic clone of murine coronavirus
    Shi Zhengli was accomplished in ‘artificial mutation’ and creation of such synthetic viruses….
    Go figure…..

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      Technetium9, thanks. Seems very important to get to the bottom of it (which I have certainly not).

      Here’s a slightly different take on it….

      https://www.virology.ws/2020/05/14/sars-cov-2-furin-cleavage-site-revisited/

      The activation of the spike glycoproteins of SARS-CoV-2 and MERS-CoV are therefore similar. They both must first be cleaved by furins followed by cleavage by a different cell protease, TMPRSS2.

      An interesting question is the origin of the furin cleavage site it SARS-CoV-2. Its closest relative, the bat isolate RaTG13, does not have this site. Nor do any of the other bat SARS-like CoVs or the pangolin CoVs that have been isolated. However recently a newly isolated bat SARS-like CoV, RmYN02, was shown to contain a poly basic amino acid insertion in the spike glycoprotein. This observation supports the hypothesis that the furin cleavage site in SARS-CoV-2 arose by recombination among bat viruses in nature.

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    neil

    It’s not impossible that the virus was manmade and that it’s release was calculated and targeted. It wouldn’t be hard to find a few hundred diehard young fit communist fanatics who will recover, infect them, send a few to the wet market for a cover story then put the rest on planes sending them to the economic and industrial hubs of the western world. Crippling the wests economy while China is much less effected and already in the recovery stage.

    Conspiracy theories are only nuts until they are proved to be real. In 1941 a US naval intelligence office Lieutenant Commander Edwin T. Layton sent multiple reports the his superiors advising a Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour was imminent, he was dismissed as nutter and crazy conspiracy theorist. That’s why many of his superiors were sacked and he became a Rear Admiral.

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      Gerald

      Yeah I also thought that as a likely scenario, but then thought why would the CCP instigate an outbreak before making sure that they had enough PPE for their own country without having to scour the world for it? but it’s probably something we’ll never know for sure as even the shortage of PPE which China said they had could also have been just for show.

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    Also highly relevant:
    20200404
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU
    I Found The Source of the Coronavirus – laowhy86

    From someone who lived in China for many years, speaks and reads Chinese fluently. He found details of the student researcher at the Wuhan biolab, who appears to have been Patient Zero, died, and was erased from records by the CCCP.
    Be patient with the first few minutes of the video.

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    This post might be right or wrong, but the current outburst of Sinophobia is to do with diverting attention from the incompetence of Western leaders, particularly in the USA

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    Anton

    The claim out of China that the virus had 99% homology with RNA of pangolins also ran into the sand…

    96% homology isn’t conclusive even if non-filled, so watch for China infecting horseshoe bats with something having a sequence that SARS-CoV-2 *could* have evolved from and then trumpeting it.

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    Mark Smith

    COVID19 aka CCP virus was probably engineered by a lab assistant in Wuhan Bilogical Lab in a desperate attempt to get proper funding. There are so many ways it could much more nasty bioweapon with open source infrrmation. They probably thought the Communist Party would enable them to stop it so they’d herores naively thinking the CCP cares abput any common people. The CCP knew immeduately because they ha ve massive surveilance apparatus

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