JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Tuesday Open Thread

It’s still Tuesday in most of the world.

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Tuesday Open Thread, 9.9 out of 10 based on 12 ratings

146 comments to Tuesday Open Thread

  • #
    tonyb

    First,I am taking bets on the new name for Washington, once the rabid woke mob realise it was named after a slave owning President. Lafayetteville? Floydstown? Other suggestions welcome

    Secondly, as slavery has been endemic for 5000 years, virtually all the worlds greatest ancient monuments were built on their backs, from the Pyramids to the Parthenon, the Acropolis to Greater Zimbabwe. Which ones should we want to tear down first? The oldest-the Pyramids?

    Should we exclude those built by Slave owning Black people and concentrate on the white slaves primarily responsible for building the Greek and Roman Glories? Rome’s were likely built on the backs of my ancestors. Who should I get reparations from?

    As for the Vikings, who had the largest slave market in Europe situated in Dublin, should I hold the Irish, Norwegian or Danish govts to account?

    The black and Arabic slavers that enslaved 1.2 million Europeans up to 1820 are presumably too recent to be claiming damages for? Similarly the 9 million Black Africans still traded each year by their Black and Arabic gangs are also presumably not to be mentioned, except by the Global Slavery index who no one seems to be listening to.

    Lets tear down ancient statues but lets forget the present, lest it upset people

    140

  • #
    Komrade Kuma

    Its ticked over to Wednesday on this side of the dateline at 02:51 local time this sleepless old fart can advise.

    Leftard loons still want to smash western culture and replace it with ????? a Chinese style, ‘AI’ driven, social credit driven uber state where they will be defacto aristo-autocrats with power to kneel on the neck of anyone they deem to have insufficient social credit for as long as it amuses them.

    Goatbothering hillbilly US cops, who failed the entry test for the KKK, still wait in barely concealed excitement for the day when they can shoot, bash, choke to death someone of colour, preferably black. Any misdemeanour will do, in fact a completely baseless stop and search will too on a quiet day. Yee haaw!

    Climate scientology has morphed into a new form of indulgence spruiking snake oil sales department bringing century long forecasting bibles to the up-market eco-fashionistas such as winemakers.

    Its enough to keep the brain awake and unable to lift one’s jaw off the floor.

    50

  • #

    The Earth is an infrared star.

    Agree or Disagree?

    15

    • #

      Don ‘t know. Provide evidence either way so we can have an opinion.

      40

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Zoe, that’s a tantalizing question but after so many wild goose chases trying to get you to explain your previous comments, please excuse me if I don’t bother this time.

      21

      • #

        Keith,
        You’re at an outdoor barbeque. You are only allowed to describe the temperature of the grill using insolation and atmospheric gases!

        Using several layers of funny math posing as physics you can make it work!

        I come along and tell you not to ignore the burning coals under the grill.

        The Earth has “burning coals” underneath, and they can set the surface temperature to ~0C.

        0C by geophysicists’ convention and 4C by my measure.

        What is so complicated to understand?

        The layers of funny math posing as physics is junk science meant to cover up geothermal. The people doing it are not even aware they’re doing it.

        I sit outside this weird paradigm and see it for what it is: a constructed fake reality.

        How many others see the same thing?

        Are people just ignoring me because I’m not credentialed enough or popular enough? Probably, but that’s a bad reason to reject science!

        52

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Zoe,

          My comment is still in moderation.
          The barbecue analogy is good, but then you jump over to say “4°C”.

          Then;

          “0C by geophysicists’ convention and 4C by my measure.”

          Is it possible that the convention has a chemical/thermodynamic control in mind and that it’s seen as a rough figure, possibly +/- 4C° ?

          I understand that you have just discovered “geothermal” energy, but it has been a known factor for long before I was born.

          In a previous post I’ve compared the nominal geothermal at the surface with that of several billion humans.

          Geothermal is essentially a constant despite the isolated extremes of molten lava seeping up and the recent minus 78°C reported last week from one of earths colder spots.

          Not sure why you have put up this 4C, what does it mean?

          KK

          01

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Previous post http://joannenova.com.au/2020/06/humans-do-ultimate-paris-lockdown-co2-hits-record-high-anyway/#comment-2336466

            Just a simple experiment.

            The average human pumps out about 25 Watts at rest.
            Assuming there’s about 8,000,000,000 people on Earth’s surface the wattage from humans alone, let’s leave the animals and plant life for the moment, is about 200,000,000,000 Watts. Is that 200 billion watts.
            Zoe has not factored this in to whatever she’s doing.

            Every human has a skin surface area of say one square metre. This makes the average persons skin feel warm at 25 Watts per square metre.

            The core thermal transfer to the atmosphere is 0.09 Watts per square metre.

            Who wins Zoes heat race; humans, or the core.

            It’s all too complicated.

            31

            • #

              “The core thermal transfer to the atmosphere is 0.09 Watts per square metre”

              That’s a gradient measure. Not same m^2.

              http://phzoe.com/2020/05/22/equating-perpendicular-planes-is-plain-nonsense/

              02

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Zoe, that is just more nonsense.

                On average, the transfer of energy from surface, ocean and land, to the immediate atmosphere is 0.09 Watts for every square metre.

                01

              • #

                LOL, No.
                Davies and Davies and many others measured a CONDUCTIVE HEAT FLUX between many DEPTHS of boreholes, wells, etc.

                The 0.09 W/m^2 is a conductive heat flux and not an emergent radiative flux.

                If you divide this 0.09 by average thermal conductivity, you will get the geothermal gradient, about 20-30 C per kilometer of depth.

                13

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Lolly Yes.

                Estimates of the total heat flow from Earth’s interior to surface is equivalent to an average heat flux of 91.6 mW/m2, and is based on more than 38,000 measurements.

                As I said.

                02

              • #

                Keith, NO!

                I downloaded a part of their database.

                What you will find is the following information:

                Location 1, Depth 1, Temperature 1, k 1

                Location 1, Depth 2, Temperature 2, k 2

                etc.

                The 0.09 W/m^2 is a CONDUCTIVE HEAT FLUX determined using CONDUCTION formulae.

                It is not an emergent radiative flux.

                You can’t have an emergent flux at depths below surface. There ZERO info about what emerges from depth 0.

                Davies and Davies do not measure emergent flux. They don’t even pretend to.

                If what you said was even remotely true, then all the geotherm diagrams you can find would say geothermal brings ~36K to the surface. They don’t.

                “from Earth’s interior to surface”

                0.09 W/m^2 is a CONDUCTIVE heat flux through the interior. It is not what emerges out of the surface.

                Part of that m^2, is L, L is the distance between 2 depths.

                L is orthogonal to the emergent surface area.

                13

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Lolly No 2.

                A conductive heat transfer coefficient would have a coefficient of watts per lineal metre.

                Lol.

                11

              • #

                No, Keith

                The conduction formula divides k by L

                k is in units W/(m*K)

                That’s where the other meter comes from in m^2.

                Read my article.

                22

          • #

            Keith,
            The convention is probably 50 years old and based on data from mines, wells, boreholes at the time.

            It’s not easy to get an accurate number unless we dig a million holes in the ground and measure.

            One easy way around this is to recognize that the surface temperature is what it is due to solar and geothermal. That’s what I do.

            I recognize that the meat and potatoes on the grill are probably getting hot due to the burning coals (and the sun) and not some funny atmospheric gas effect. But others reject the burning coals theory, and fervently claim there’s a GHG effect. They deny the obvious, reflexively.

            We’ve never witnessed backradiation heating, so why even entertain it?

            13

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              Zoe, thanks for responding.

              In working in Thermodynamics it’s always good to state the problem.

              What we are trying to estimate is the amount of energy transferred continuously from the core to the surface where it is accessible to the atmosphere.

              If we take say the last centimetre of surface thickness, rock, earth, water and the first centimetre of atmosphere we can look at figures given for guidance.

              On average it is said that in this small depth surface zone there are basically two thermal contributors.

              The core contributes 47 parts and the Sun provides 173,000 parts and this shows that while core heat is definitely there, it is very small compared with incident solar energy.

              That’s the beginning of the problem. It seems that core heat is a very small contributor to the atmosphere.

              The side issues of temperature gradient going into the earth and thermal conductivity of various rock layers don’t mean much unless you want to do a detailed workup on a particular area.

              Once you get down past the first few metres the ground temperature rises quickly and constantly. I once went 4,000 ft down a mine shaft in Broken Hill. Hot.

              Although not needed for this analysis thermal conductivity of rock will involve a temperature difference factor over a lineal metre and a bulk flow factor across a known cross section.
              The quantity of flow is defined by the temperature difference push factor and the area available in the transfer zone.

              KK

              01

              • #
              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Hi Zoe,

                I am responding to what you put up here and sadly won’t be going to your blog again.

                There’s another blog promoter who uses Jo’s site to promote their work, so you have company.

                You say:

                “CONDUCTIVE HEAT FLUX between many DEPTHS of boreholes, wells, etc.
                The 0.09 W/m^2 is a conductive heat flux and not an emergent radiative flux.”

                And in that quote, you have the answer; but because you don’t want to look at the process you miss out.

                You’ve obviously gone to a lot of trouble to locate this borehole analysis but two points might help bring out the hidden bottle of Cognac.

                First,
                the temperature change with depth in the boreholes is real and from that data of temperature change over length the Conductive heat flux for a location and rock type can be determined.

                Second,
                There would be no “heat flux” as evidenced by the temperature differential if the “heat” wasn’t going somewhere.

                If the energy wasn’t being lost to the atmosphere the temperature of the near surface rock would be uniform throughout.

                If the energy is being moved then it must be going somewhere that somewhere is deep space.

                The conductive heat transfer through near surface layers has to also be the heat loss to atmosphere.

                You had it there.

                KK

                01

              • #

                “near surface rock would be uniform throughout.”

                No, Keith. Temperature variation is based on density variation.

                https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Temperature_schematic_of_inner_Earth.jpg

                You can see there are different gradient zones. Where’d the heat go in between them?

                Density changes.

                You have no idea what you’re talking about, but you keep talking as if you do.

                The conductive heat flux can’t be compared to radiative flux. They are literally orthogonal to one another.

                What do you not understand?

                I show you here that there’s an infinite variety of profiles that all have the same geothermal heat flux:

                http://phzoe.com/2020/04/29/the-irrelevance-of-geothermal-heat-flux/

                In this article I show you a small subsample of borehole measures:

                http://phzoe.com/2019/12/06/measuring-geothermal-1/

                As you can see there I get a conductive heat flux of 48.9 mW/m².

                I get this by averaging

                k(Th-Tc)/L

                for boreholes between 50 and 100 meters deep.

                The m^2 is based on k multiplied by L.

                L is a depth difference (50 meters)

                Do you not understand that k and L have nothing to do with the eventual emission surface area A? Nothing!

                The m^2 have nothing to do with the surface m^2. Nothing!

                How can you still not understand this???

                Davies and Davied simply do what I did but for much more data and get ~91 mW/m².

                Your ears are the same temperature. Therefore the conductive heat flux through your head is 0 W/m^2. Does this mean your ears can’t melt an ice cube? Of course not! Your ears still emit ~522 W/m^2.

                10

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Watt’s going on here.

                http://joannenova.com.au/2020/06/tuesday-open-thread-17/#comment-2341066

                I have given a perfectly logical explanation for the Daley Conductivity values being a direct link to surface transference of core energy to the atmosphere.

                There’s No other alternative, if there are temperature differences then heat is moving.

                The fact that you dismiss that inescapable mechanism is bizarre.

                Zoe, I tried to work with you and it seems that you either do not comprehend what’s happening or more likely you are trying to get numbers up on your blog by promoting an ongoing avalanche of lookey-see stuff.

                Blog Promoter No 2; bye.

                KK

                02

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              Re = D.Ub.ro/mu

              Where
              D.is diameter.
              Ub is bulk velocity of fluid.
              ro is factor 1
              mu is factor 2.

              Re itself is a dimensionless so even given the bulk velocity in cubic metres/second and diameter in metres you can’t infer the dimensions of the other factor.

              When I originally learnt this we used the old imperial unit system of pounds shillings and pence and when it became obvious that this system was associated with slavery we were forced to move to the more egalitarian system by President Macrons father.

              KK

              02

    • #
      PeterS

      Earth is certainly not an infra-red star. To understand better what an infra-red star is see Infrared Stars – NASA/ADS

      40

      • #

        I define an infrared star as an object with enough internal energy to emit such that its peak spectral radiance is in the infrared.

        Our sun is a “green” star.

        Your article examines some stars in the 0.8 to 2.2 micron range.

        And?

        Does that mean Earth can’t be an infrared star with a natural peak at 10.6 microns? No

        Your article actually examines NEAR-infrared stars.

        25

        • #
          PeterW

          I define” is an admission that you are making it up to suit your argument.

          51

          • #

            yup. I define a star as anything that emits any sort of energy from its own internal processes.

            Hence, I’m a star

            61

            • #
              AndyG55

              “that emits any sort of energy from its own internal processes”

              “I’m a star”

              Judging by your emissions…. a gaseous one

              61

            • #

              Gee,
              You need food to shine.
              You need an external energy source.

              I’m sorry to say, this makes you NOT a star.

              You need internal self-dependency to be a star.

              11

              • #

                LOL, no.

                I am a star by definition, sorry to say. Once I have the food in me at t=0 I will be a star as I am emitting energy with no inputs from that moment on, until I go cold and stop emitting at which point I will be a dwarf.

                In exactly the same way as the matter within the earth or the sun has, from t=0, been the fuel for the emitted energy and when they are cold and no longer emitting- dwarfs.

                Read my blog.

                10

              • #

                Gee,
                Stars don’t go around looking for food. You do. You’re not a star.

                Stars have no dependencies for survival.

                11

              • #
                Peter C

                Gee Aye Blog Back! Hooray.

                I am not sure how reading your blog will answer existential questions about the definition of stars but you do have a reference to Star Trek and other biographical details.

                20

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Gee Aye,

                Excellent.

                There’s a certain Zoeiness in that response.

                :-) :-)

                KK

                10

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Tongue in cheek zoiness;

                “Once I have the food in me at t=0 ”

                ” read my blogg”.

                :-)

                00

          • #

            The clasical definition of a star is defined as a self-luminuous object in the sky

            Just because we can’t see in the infrared doesn’t mean infrared stars don’t emit mainly in the infrared.

            It’s a very logical creation of terminology.

            23

            • #

              In the sky? You are talking to adults here. In any case, the Earth is not up “in the sky” as you put it. Childish terminology deserves a snarky reply.

              I emit in the infrared. Next time I am in the sky I will reclaim my star status.

              10

              • #

                I’m giving you the etymology of the word star. You know it came from primitive people, right?

                You can observe the infrared star known as Earth from Mars. It will appear in the sky. You need special equipment.

                21

              • #
                Peter C

                You are talking to adults here

                Affirmation to all!

                But are you sure Gee? I detect a certain juvenile playfulness in your responses (the inner child at work)

                00

        • #
          PeterS

          Your definition of an infrared star is correct only if the object in question is a star in the first place. That’s my point. Other objects, such as humans and most other land creatures and birds, running car engines, etc. give off mostly infra-red radiation too but they are not infrared stars (obviously). Similarly, the earth is not an infrared star.

          20

          • #

            Yeah, but those other things need external food/energy. The Earth has its own. Big difference!

            And what is your definition of a star?

            04

            • #

              We don’t need external food and energy. There is a starting point when the sun came together with external material that supplied the energy and started emitting and it will be a star until it stops. If I eat my last bit of food I will emit until I die. I’m a star.

              What comes on your computer ticker tape when your input is semantics?

              10

              • #

                Stars have no external dependencies once they are created.

                You need oxygen. You need atmospheric pressure. You need a minimum temperature.

                Semantics is you trying to claim a short miserable existance without food, oxygen, etc makes you star.

                You think astronomers would classify such a thing as a star? They would call it a flash in the pan, if anything. No more interesting than two asteroids colliding and producing an explosion.

                No sorry, that 5 second explosion is not a star.

                03

              • #
                Peter C

                Stars have no external dependencies once they are created.

                Neither does Gee Aye, until he needs his next meal.

                Gee may emit a bit of “Hot Air” but he does not depend on nuclear reactions. So I don’t think he can be an infrared star, unfortunately.

                00

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Keith you have been sucker punched in the thread.
      She’ putting up nonsense.
      And you are biting.

      15

      • #

        and it’s gristly

        10

      • #
        Peter C

        Actually I think that Zoe is quite serious and genuine.

        I may not agree with all of her analyses but I do think that she has shown this;
        Geothermal Heat Flux has been globally measured to be ~ 91.6 mW/m²; a very small number. Many people claim that you can convert this figure into a value that tells you what the surface temperature would be in the absence of the sun. 91.6mW/M^2. Geothermal energy at the surface = 35K emergent energy.
        https://phzoe.com/2020/05/22/equating-perpendicular-planes-is-plain-nonsense/

        That is almost exactly equal to the missing energy that is required for the Green House Effect Hypothesis.

        20

  • #
    MrGrimNasty

    No idea if the story has been covered elsewhere, apologies if so – dexamethasone, steroid anti-inflammatory, similar to radiation dose idea.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281

    They seem to be rather over-excited at the Boris press conference today ‘British breakthrough’ (not sure we were the only people trying it).

    The reality is that it will save a low proportion of the very small proportion of people that get seriously ill – anything that increase the odds is good, but it doesn’t really change anything does it!

    21

    • #

      What is needed is either a vaccination to stop people getting it or some effective drug to combat at at an early stage.

      It is great if this drug will help the very sick on ventilators but that is a very small number.

      11

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day Tonyb,
        I reckon Dr Zelenko has found exactly what you want, and he’s published a letter outlining his solution in brief simplicity, just two pages:
        https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pjgHlqI-ZuKOziN3txQsN5zz62v3K043pR3DdhEmcos/
        His work was quoted in Jo’s most recent post, at reference #28 in the paper by Harvey Risch:

        http://joannenova.com.au/2020/06/fda-bans-hydroxycholoquine-use-in-usa-but-yale-expert-and-many-doctors-say-it-should-be-used-early-and-asap/

        Cheers
        Dave B

        20

      • #
        Lucky

        Tonyb- no ‘we’ do not need a vaccine.
        If one comes out within 2-3 years it will not be safe. Governments will make it compulsory. There will be massive government subsidies to big pharma who are already squelching news of competition and dissent and who are likely to be behind the fake scares.
        However, there are already cures- for the short and medium phases of CCP19 there is HCQ+zinc+Az, for the hospital phase there is now (quite likely) Dexamethasone. You may argue about safety and effectiveness but compare with a non-existent vaccine or one force-fed.

        20

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Likewise here.

          I’m very much a pro-vaxer but have become very wary of vaccinations since the “annual flu sh$t” arrived.

          After resisting for a few years I eventually had two years in a row and had a bad reaction to the second one. That was the year a couple of youngsters seemed to die from complications.

          If big government and big pharma can’t sort out the current pandemic properly why should I trust them with a vaccine?

          So far we have lost 102 people to the CCP19 but the bigger thing we have to face now is the aftermath of the lockdown. The human, economic and social “costs” are frightening. Thankfully both Politicians and SJWs are vaccinated against this fallout with access to copious amounts of taxpayer dollars.

          KK

          11

          • #
            Peter C

            I’m very much a pro-vaxer but have become very wary of vaccinations since the “annual flu sh$t” arrived.

            I was a Pro-vaxer, but I have become more cautious as I learn more about it. No doubt that some of the interventions in the past saved many lives, but did they know what they were doing?
            I am amazed, looking back on it, that Edward Jenner got away with his experiment. His cowpox (vaccinia) inoculation worked. He had a very rudimentary theory and he tested it on a child.

            10

  • #
    RicDre

    Germany’s Climate Friendly Hydrogen Strategy

    Germany has affirmed its climate leadership by announcing a plan to embrace a hydrogen powered future. But nobody can explain where they will get all the hydrogen.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/15/germanys-climate-friendly-hydrogen-strategy/

    20

  • #
    RicDre

    Forbes: Plunging Renewable Energy Costs Should be Answered with Massive Federal Funding

    According to Forbes, plunging renewable costs is a profitable opportunity for the Federal Government to finance renewable energy at no additional cost to consumers, but they should make sure the market treats renewable energy “fairly”.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/15/forbes-plunging-renewable-energy-costs-should-be-answered-with-massive-federal-funding/

    30

  • #
    RicDre

    UN: Covid-19, Climate Change and Racial Justice are all Linked

    According to the UN, everything bad you see in the news is linked to climate change. Or something like that.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/15/un-covid-19-climate-change-and-racial-justice-are-all-linked/

    10

  • #
    RicDre

    A carbon sink shrinks in the arctic

    New research by University of Delaware doctoral student Zhangxian Ouyang and oceanographer Wei-Jun Cai, and an international team of researchers, demonstrates that rapid warming and sea-ice loss have induced major changes in the western Arctic Ocean.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/16/a-carbon-sink-shrinks-in-the-arctic/

    10

  • #
    RicDre

    Beijing Locks Down, Restricts Travel amid ‘Very Grim’ Coronavirus Resurgence

    After months of insisting they had the coronavirus pandemic completely under control, Chinese authorities on Tuesday admitted the outbreak in Beijing is “very grim.”

    Orders were given to lock down at least 29 communities and restrict travel from the city.

    https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/06/16/beijing-locks-down-restricts-travel-amid-very-grim-coronavirus-resurgence/

    20

    • #
      PeterW

      But we should totally believe the official Chinese Government announcements…..

      50

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Air New Zealand to resume passenger flights to/from Shanghai as of 22nd of June. Say what!? Say Payching!

        Sometimes the future CAN be predicted.

        50

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Zoe is back

    http://joannenova.com.au/2020/06/tuesday-open-thread-17/#comment-2340786

    Is the Earth actually a “star”; is the world “round” or are we imagining it.

    These questions, and many more, will be answered on the advertised blog: just go there and possibly you will find that a recent discovery has been made by the host, that the inside of the Earth is Hot.

    After extending the S,B equation from its intended very localised relevance it can now be applied to interplanetary heat exchange.

    Amazing what can be done with a computer, especially in the hands of an expert programmer who can overlook the implications of the view factor and plate theory previously mentioned.

    After all it’s only an equation.

    If anyone goes to the links and figures out what is going on please let me know.

    KK

    23

    • #
      Analitik

      Why do you persist in feeding the troll?

      10

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Thanks analytic,

        This is one of the reasons;

        http://joannenova.com.au/2020/06/congrats-us-sweden-australia-have-more-climate-deniers-than-anywhere/#comment-2341069

        People like those who support her blog, see link, think that she’s talking real science.

        00

        • #
          AndyG55

          I went there once

          Not to bother again.

          0ºC …. explain permafrost ;-)

          10

        • #
          Analitik

          Arguing with Zoe against her pseudoscience is like concentrating your efforts against the Popular Front of Judea rather than the Romans.

          10

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            I understand your concerns.
            I have said “bye” to her: and that’s permanent.
            As long as others are prepared to acknowledge that she’s not genuine in what she’s doing then I’m happy.

            KK

            11

            • #
              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Thanks Peter,

                I tried my best to draw her out so that she would explain what she was up to. All she did was jump from one question to another and say that the answer is on her blog.

                Your description of the latest conceptualization is interesting,

                “That is almost exactly equal to the missing energy that is required for the Green House Effect Hypothesis”

                because it prompts the questions;
                what missing energy and what GH effect.

                The Earth’s atmosphere is a complex self limiting thermodynamic system and if anybody manages to do a complete mass, heat and momentum transfer analysis on it I would be happy to read it. The idea that there is missing energy is a bit of a dud when most of the significant factors are not even identified, let alone quantified.

                Unfortunately taking other people’s flawed concepts and extending them just adds to the misinformation that exists in the area of CO2 induced global warming.

                KK

                10

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    The American Left has decided that the worse things appear to be, the better their chances in November.
    Therefore, everything = BAD!

    We must be divided, fearful, and homebound.

    I think I will be cheerful and optimistic, and enjoy watching liberal heads explode when I smile at them.

    30

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Take heart, fellow climate realists!

    Australians can see through the bullsh!t …

    The number of climate deniers in Australia is more than double the global average, new survey finds
    https://theconversation.com/the-number-of-climate-deniers-in-australia-is-more-than-double-the-global-average-new-survey-finds-140450

    Of course, the real “climate deniers” are those who deny Australia’s quality climate records before 1910:

    “Temperature data prior to 1910 should be used with extreme caution as many stations, prior to that date, were exposed in non-standard shelters, some of which give readings which are several degrees warmer or cooler than those measured according to post-1910 standards.”

    http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/cdo/about/about-airtemp-data.shtml

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      el gordo

      ‘Young people are much more concerned than older generations, women are more concerned than men, and city-dwellers think it’s more serious than news consumers in regional and rural Australia.’

      I agree and top marks to Sky News for beaming onto the bush, free to air.

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    Another Ian

    “Hidden Funding”

    “Some 54 scientists have resigned or been fired as a result of an ongoing investigation by the National Institutes of Health into the failure of NIH grantees to disclose financial ties to foreign governments. In 93% of those cases, the hidden funding came from a Chinese institution.

    The new numbers come from Michael Lauer, NIH’s head of extramural research. Lauer had previously provided some information on the scope of NIH’s investigation, which had targeted 189 scientists at 87 institutions. But his presentation today to a senior advisory panel offered by far the most detailed breakout of an effort NIH launched in August 2018 that has roiled the U.S. biomedical community, and resulted in criminal charges against some prominent researchers, including Charles Lieber, chair of Harvard University’s department of chemistry and chemical biology.

    “It’s not what we had hoped, and it’s not a fun task,” NIH Director Francis Collins said in characterizing the ongoing investigation. He called the data “sobering.” ”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/06/16/hidden-funding/

    And he Canadian foreign minister has just been found to have two loans with a Chinese state bank.

    Daniel Andrews?

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    Another Ian

    “‘The Modelers’ Thought Of Everything Except Reality”

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/modelers-thought-everything-except-reality

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    Peter Fitzroy

    Today’s quiz

    In Victoria, Police are used to prevent protestors from protecting 800 year old birthing trees due to be bulldozed for a highway expansion, and police are used to prevent protestors from vandalising bronze statues of colonialism.

    A Historical monuments need to be preserved
    B Aboriginal monuments can be destroyed

    Red for A, Green for B

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        PeterW

        Gordo…..
        I don’t see an 800 year old tree of any significance.
        I see a made-up story by people determined to impose their fairy-stories on the rest of us, printed by a rag more notorious for its Political Correctness than its attention to facts.

        What is the evidence otherwise?

        90

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        yarpos

        so when the tree dies and rots away , nobody can give birth

        it seems like the roadworks are just changing the timing not the reality

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      MP

      Peter I worked at a mine, there was a tree that was so called sacred as the rainbow serpent slithered up that tree millions of years ago and had a look at his work carving out the river, the enviro’s told me it was a 70 year old tree. Just so happened the locals thought that was were the open cut was going, they were wrong.

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        robert rosicka

        The new Solar subsidy farm being built at Glenrowan west / Winton is removing trees without any protests and there are birthing / scar trees surrounding and within the project .
        So far no protests.

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      Bill In Oz

      Doze it.
      There are plenty of other trees
      Should any of the female ( or male ? ) Protesters wish to give birth in one of them.

      31

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        MP

        Actually the pit went around it, so now you have a little tree right on the edge of a very big hole with all its mates removed.

        Miners care.

        30

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        AndyG55

        I bet not one aboriginal can show they were born under one of these trees.

        61

    • #
      AndyG55

      YAWN,

      The child pleading for attention as always!

      40

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      AndyG55

      But nobody of the far-left environmental/sjw/racism lobby complains when huge swathes of “scared” trees are cleared for biofuel or to make way for wind turbines.

      80

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      PeterW

      If a statue of Cook needed to be moved for a major public work….. it would be moved.

      Another consideration is that we have a lot of information to validate most of our monuments. They are not dependant on someone’s unverifiable recollection of what some dead “Auntie” supposedly told them.

      Meanwhile , how many thousands of such trees were destroyed, unremarked and unprotected, in the fires of the previous summer. Unprotected either by those who claim to value them and those live Fitz who claim to believe them.

      Pretty is as pretty does.

      80

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      yarpos

      One exists due to observable history, the other exists via chinese whispers and whatever someone reckons. Awkward business not having a written language, or very convenient and flexible depending how you look at it I guess.

      40

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      Bill In Oz

      Red thumb for your stupidity Fitz.

      23

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      AndyG55

      https://notrickszone.com/2020/06/16/folly-germany-plans-to-covert-coal-power-plants-so-that-they-burn-100-year-old-trees-in-minutes/#comments

      Quiz.

      A: green thumb. Is this monumental stupidity and totally irrational greenie anti-environmental behaviour.?

      B: red thumb. Is this totally acceptable because it fits the far-left anti-coal agenda and the willful destruction of the environment.

      40

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        el gordo

        In my town a statue of Lord Kitchener was badly beaten by a Sydney free radical. The elders were horrified and took it away to be repaired, then they presented it to the local RSL Club who put it in a prominent place inside their building.

        Making the point that we wouldn’t be intimidated, they made a perfect replica which was put back on the pedestal in the park. The names of the locals who died in that war of adventurism are exhibited and amongst them is Breaker Morant. Its history.

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    Another Ian

    “Something Saving Covid Lives”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/06/16/something-saving-covid-lives/

    Includes a plug for Australian lamb – I’ve never heard it mentioned as favourable to omega 3 before -

    “Lately, being on an Australian lamb kick, I looked up lamb fat composition. Very high in omega-3 fatty acids.”

    40

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      Bill In Oz

      A mine of great food advice !
      :-)

      02

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      Another Ian

      In a career in rangelands I’d never heard of the omega-3 story before – only from the fish side.

      On doing some looking grass fed beef also has elevated Omega-3 levels

      10

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    Another Ian

    More “high quality science” by the look of this

    “Sorry it is ” Internet sleuths also got to work on the very heavy doses of the drug that were given – 2400 mg in the first 24 hours, a ‘dose fit for a gorilla’ as one critic had it. Quizzed about this, Landray defended the dosage, twice, as being usual for other diseases such as amoebic dysentery.”
    Hydroxyquinoline is the drug give for Dysentry NOT HCQ.

    That study is being pulled apart on line.

    https://conservativewoman.co.uk/the-marx-brothers-do-science/

    http://www.francesoir.fr/politique-monde/recovery-trial-brexit-and-overdose

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/06/16/something-saving-covid-lives/#comment-130675

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    Travis T. Jones

    Climate models, economic models, virus models … all fail …

    “Economists know something about the incredible failure of forecasting models.
    They have been deployed often in the postwar period.
    The same forecasting failures afflicted the models that panicked politicians into locking down.”

    ‘The Modelers’ Thought Of Everything Except Reality
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/modelers-thought-everything-except-reality

    “While modeling certainly has a place, models have two major shortcomings.
    No model can actually predict the future.
    Especially when it is based on data that is incomplete.
    And no model is capable of replacing human freedom as the best path to responding to life’s risks, including this virus.”

    41

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    David Wojick

    My latest:
    https://www.cfact.org/2020/06/10/trump-order-confront-big-tech-bias/

    It may take a second term but the Admin is gearing up to go after bias against Conservatives and climate skeptics by Facebook, Google, YouTube, etc. Woohoo! The legal issues are not simple.

    41

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    Another Ian

    Careful when you crow -

    “NBC Report Implicates Google in Antitrust Activity…”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/06/16/nbc-report-implicates-google-in-antitrust-activity/

    10

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    Rowjay

    How did ACT 100% Renewables do this week? Pretty poorly again, only managing to produce at 32% capacity, up slightly from last weeks 29%. More troubling for grid stability were the two days running under 10% capacity with two periods of negative production totalling about 4 hours where power was actually drawn from the grid.
    Data is sourced from here.
    :
    ACT 100% – Total Nameplate – 613.5 MW from 133,000 solar panels and 186 wind turbines
    :
    Date : MWh produced : Capacity Factor
    08/06/2020 : 4,307 : 29%
    09/06/2020 : 4,584 : 31%
    10/06/2020 : 1,329 : 9%
    11/06/2020 : 1,037 : 7%
    12/06/2020 : 6,141 : 42%
    13/06/2020 : 7,400 : 50%
    14/06/2020 : 7,670 : 52%
    Weekly Sum : 32,468 : 32%

    :
    compared to Unit 2 of the black coal supercritical Millmerran Power Station with:
    MPP_2 – Nameplate capacity – 426 MW from one 17 year old unit
    :
    Date : MWh produced : Capacity Factor
    08/06/2020 : 10,446 : 102%
    09/06/2020 : 10,061 : 98%
    10/06/2020 : 10,400 : 102%
    11/06/2020 : 10,370 : 101%
    12/06/2020 : 10,014 : 98%
    13/06/2020 : 10,313 : 101%
    14/06/2020 : 9,970 : 98%
    Weekly Sum :71,573 : 100%
    :
    Once again, ACT 100% Renewables was humbled by the lower capacity MPP_2 which produced another remarkably consistent performance running at 100% capacity for the week and producing more than double the weekly output from the higher capacity ACT 100% Renewables.

    50

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      yarpos

      The ACT claim is laughable I wouldnt even repeat it. Its yet another false claim that keeps getting repeated.

      20

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        Another Ian

        Seems to me that repeating it with the dud results in black headlines is an excellent idea

        00

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    PeterS

    China might be setting the scene to divert attention from the pandemic. A battle has occurred at the Chinese-Indian border with casualties on both sides. China is clearly becoming a threat to world peace, and the sooner people wake up to it the better (or worse as the case may be). Sorry Trump, your attempt to bring peace with North Korea/China has failed. Not his fault. The CCP is not interested in world peace.

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      MP

      China are active in the South China sea again.
      The Aus government is concerned about the supply chain failing, might be all those supply denial devices they call submarines. luckily our wise government leaders knew storing a reserve fuel supply half way around the world would save us.
      We now have a massive 19 days supply in the US of A that will take 25 days to get to our shores.

      So much stupid!

      80

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        yarpos

        Given we are where we are, what would you propose as a better solution in the short term?

        10

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          MP

          Use foresight instead of hindsight, thought that’s what we paid them to do. This situation has been around for decades.

          00

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          Analitik

          I wonder if the emptied Bass Straight oil reservoirs could be refilled as storage. That’s what is done overseas.

          10

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            MP

            Dead thread but.

            One of the largest untapped oil reserves in the world is under Cooper Pedy in SA.

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              robert rosicka

              Did not know that MP but do know that there is a massive deposit of coal at the Painted desert which is not that far away .

              20

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                MP

                Also exceptional in its purity, can be put straight into a diesel motor. Aus has vast reserves of oil that have been tapped and capped. 50% of our oil production is exported, we then import 50% of our requirements at far greater cost.
                Of course we shut down most of our refining capabilities.

                The cooper basin has a trove of treasures, SA is mineral rich but relatively under valued. Their copper belt has the potential to out do QLD’s Mt Isa district.

                OZ Minerals has some very juicy deposit’s and have big plans. Great company, very experienced personnel. Smart money here.

                20

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                robert rosicka

                Roxby Downs is the biggest mine in the area I think but noticed last trip there is at least one other big mine starting up so yes massive resources still underground.

                10

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                MP

                That would be OZ minerals Carapanteena Project, watch it grow.

                10

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      Graeme#4

      Apparently the two sides have been engaging in hand-to-hand combat using sticks and stones for a while in the Galwan Velley, so it seems that the violence has recently escalated.

      30

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      MP

      China don’t need to divert attention away from the Whuflu, they are pretty much investigating themselves through the WHO and will find they have nothing to answer to.
      The Whuflu has to stick around for the VAX, the writing is on the wall.
      https://www.zmescience.com/other/feature-post/georgia-guidestones-mysterious-instructions-for-the-post-apocalypse/

      01

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    Another Ian

    “The Conversation: 21% of Rural Australia Ignores Climate Change News”

    “If climate change was having a noticeable impact, rural Australia is where the impact of climate change should be felt first, but it is in rural Australia you find the greatest proportion of climate skeptics. The study authors dismiss rural skepticism as being due to the older rural demographic, but this is a pretty weak explanation IMO.”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/16/the-conversation-21-of-rural-australia-ignores-climate-change-news/

    50

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      yarpos

      as if the last election isnt a pretty clear indicator that dissent from the climate gospel is running much higher than that

      50

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      PeterW

      Rural Australia is the demographic with the best understanding that supposedly “unprecedented “ events have all happened before.

      40

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    Kevin a

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-06-16-communist-china-invaded-usa-troops-disguised-security-solar-farms.html
    Communist China has already invaded the USA, stationed troops disguised as security at solar plant farms, says analyst

    20

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    Analitik

    From Summit News (certainly not covered by the MSM)
    [Black] Harvard Professor: “Defunding The Police Is Not A Solution And Could Cost Thousands Of Black Lives”

    Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon. Both of these results undercut the idea that the police wield lethal force with racial bias

    70

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      yarpos

      The whole armed or unarmed thing is complete BS. A teenage and older male, iced up and out of control is a lethal weapon. Its like the whole world one one punch deaths suddenly evaporates is a police member is involved, and of course everything moves in slow motion so that you always have plenty of time to assess the threat and react.

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      PeterW

      Humans have been killing each other since Cain and Abel….
      As long as bad people think that violence will get them what they want at an acceptable cost, they will use violence.
      Nice as the idea of non-lethal response is, the basis of all law is that if you break it (the law) something bad will happen to you. The idea that we can have a useful deterrent to violent crime that does not include the threat of pain, injury and death is just so much wishful thinking.

      At best, it is wishful thinking. Even worse, it encourages the mad and bad in the belief that the cost to them will not be very high.

      50

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        Chad

        PeterW
        June 17, 2020 at 4:53 pm · …
        Nice as the idea of non-lethal response is, the basis of all law is that if you break it (the law) something bad will happen to you. The idea that we can have a useful deterrent to violent crime that does not include the threat of pain, injury and death is just so much wishful thinking.

        I have often wondered why the police do not use a developed version of a “Net Gun” to launch a compact , fine thread net over violent offenders./ ice users , knife threats, etc
        Even a lightweight enveloping net will prevent arm and leg motion without persson to person contact.

        00

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          PeterW

          From what I know about such nets used for animal capture, they rely on firing weights that carry the net. Those weights can cause injury in their own right, and the “guns” are heavy and awkward… Ranges are very short. No doubt some aspects can be improved, but there are no free lunches.

          Part of the thing about short ranges is that if the offender gets violent or produces a weapon, the time for police to react is so short that they are often unable to defend themselves successfully. Do a web search on the “Tueller Drill” for more information. It is SOP in many places for an officer to not deploy pepper-spray unless he has another officer present with a firearm ready in case the offender does not react as expected.

          I’m not saying that people should be shot without good reason. Just that we should not ask the Police to go into dangerous situations on our behalf, and so restrict them that they are put at additional risk.

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        PeterS

        James Allen recently put it so well.
        “You know you’re living in George Orwell’s world when speech is considered violence and actual violence is considered speech.” Those who kowtow to the violent mob instead of standing up to them are allowing that environment to slowly but surely become the new norm.

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    http://rodmclaughlin.com/you-can-t-make-it-up-cvi—the-guardian-forgets-what-it-blamed-the-fire-in-paradise-ca-on

    The Guardian today:

    PG&E confesses to killing 84 people in 2018 California fire as part of guilty plea
    https://archive.is/fSVJY

    The fire, which completely devastated the town of Paradise, was blamed on the company’s crumbling electrical grid

    The Guardian on 10 December 2018:

    The new abnormal: why fires like Paradise will happen again and again
    https://archive.is/QElDN

    Of the traumatic consequences of climate change, scientists consider increasingly ferocious wildfires to be one of the most starkly apparent

    30

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    Another Ian

    “CHAZ: THE NEW WORKERS PARADISE. WILL THEY FINALLY GET IT RIGHT?”

    https://richardsonpost.com/howellwoltz/17562/chaz-is-the-latest-workers-paradise/

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    farmerbraun

    The circus in NZ gets more entertaining by the hour.

    The clowns are showing confusion.

    Nobody seems to know who was responsible for allowing two infected
    ,(one symptomatic) , untested women out of “quarantine ” , on
    compassionate grounds, and permitting them to drive from Auckland to
    Wellington, contacting 364 people (at last count) on their way.

    Poor Jacinda is in the dark (for good reason) and Aunty Helen (Clark)
    has been “sound-bitten ” overnight to point out :- “Look Janet . Look
    John . See the squirrels. Look John – U.S.A. failed . Look Janet – U.K.
    failed. Look Janet and John. See all the squirrels.”

    Godzone needs the people’s reporters to get the As into G. It’s too funny to miss.

    And the military have had their role upgraded, seriously.

    Stay tuned.

    20