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Russians spent $95 million to NGOs to feed “shale fear” and anti-fracking campaigns. Most of the West fell for it…

Russia makes about $300 billion in gas and oil exports each year. For a tiny tenth of a billion dollars it fed western activists in NGOs* and successfully stopped fracking development in the UK (and some parts of Australia apparently). It’s what you call a stupendous investment.

Matt Ridley lays out just how game changing the discovery of shale fracking could have been for the UK, and how easily the politicians and system was exploited and fell over:

The Plot against Fracking, The Critic

When the shale gas revolution first came along, some environmentalists welcomed it, and rightly so. …

But then the vested interests got to work. Renewable energy promoters panicked at the thought of cheap and abundant gas.

The Russians also lobbied behind the scenes against shale gas, worried about losing their grip on the world’s gas supplies.

 It’s all so predictable…

The Centre for European Studies found that the Russian government has invested $95 million in NGOs campaigning against shale gas. Russia Today television ran endless anti-fracking stories, including one that “frackers are the moral equivalent of paedophiles”. The US Director of National Intelligence stated that “RT runs anti-fracking programming … reflective of the Russian Government’s concern about the impact of fracking and US natural gas production on the global energy market and the potential challenges to Gazprom’s profitability.” Pro-Russian politicians such as Lord Truscott (married to a Russian army colonel’s daughter) made speeches in parliament against fracking.

Stories of tapwater on fire and other ludicrous misinformation fed doubts and protests, and the conservatives folded like a pop-up beach tent.

As night follows day, Tory politicians lost courage and slipped into neutrality then opposition, worrying about what posh greens might think, rather than working-class bill-payers and job-seekers. A golden opportunity was squandered for Britain to get hold of home-grown, secure, cheap and relatively clean energy. We don’t need fossil fuels, the politicians thought, we’re going for net zero in 2050! But read the small print, chaps: the only way to have zero-emission transport and heating, so says the Committee on Climate Change, is to use lots of hydrogen. And how do they say most of the hydrogen is to be made? From gas.

 The industry was badgered into agreeing to silly targets:

Despite being told by the Advertising Standards Authority to withdraw misleading claims about shale gas, [Friends of the Earth] kept up a relentless campaign of misinformation, demanding more delay and red tape from all-too-willing civil servants. The industry, with Cuadrilla fated to play the part of Monsanto, agreed to ridiculously unrealistic limits on what kinds of tremors they were allowed after being promised by the government that the limits would be changed later — a promise since broken. Such limits would stop most other industries, even road haulage, in their tracks.

 It wouldn’t have worked if the West had good media, and if schools taught students how to spot con artists, witchcraft and fake reasoning.

 Read it all, and weep…

h/t GWPF

*NGO’s meaning Non Government Organisations (which are often really more like a wing of the State, but without the accountability…)

 

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Rating: 9.8/10 (61 votes cast)
Russians spent $95 million to NGOs to feed "shale fear" and anti-fracking campaigns. Most of the West fell for it..., 9.8 out of 10 based on 61 ratings

238 comments to Russians spent $95 million to NGOs to feed “shale fear” and anti-fracking campaigns. Most of the West fell for it…

  • #
    GD

    In Victoria, Daniel Andrews has banned fracking, along with land and off-shore gas exploration. Did he get the memo from Putin?

    Not directly, I’d suspect, but like Andrews’ capitulation to China’s ‘Belt and Road’ project, I reckon Danny boy is being treated as a useful idiot for Russia and China’s long term plans.

    We are fools for allowing any hint of socialism to control our country.

    270

    • #
      el gordo

      Minor correction, Russia and China are not really socialist. Putin and Xi are fascists, convince me otherwise?

      85

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        It always good to read Matt Ridley’s writing.
        Clear, logical and well informed.

        30

      • #
        glen Michel

        I would call Putin a nationalist with an autocratic slant ( how acute the slant?). Neo-Cons and their acolytes have been trying to keep Russia under the thumb and they react however they can. I can understand subverting the UK’s energy strategies is in their interest, after all their GDP is low for such a country.It is unfortunate that our polity is captive to the Greens.

        60

        • #
          Alfred

          I would call Putin a nationalist with an autocratic slant

          His current popularity poll in Russia is 70%. It was 80% a few months ago and dropped because he made people retire later – they are living longer than before in Russia.

          Putin’s Approval Rating (Levada)

          Please tell me which Leader from the West has anything like that approval rating?

          As for “autocratic”. When exactly has he not respected the laws of Russia and international laws. The Russian army is in Syria at the invitation of the Syrian government – unlike the USA.

          Here is a funny piece explaining the really devilish plot of Putin. BTW, he was being sarcastic. The Russians were the first to drill for oil around 1850. :-)

          Putin’s plan: Wait for US’ most-advanced shale oil know-how and SNATCH IT! (Spoiler: it was a joke)

          Lastly, here is the Russians, two years ago, refuting these false accusations about them financing the anti-fracking movement. Matt Ridley is just another MSM propagandist who knows which side his bread is buttered on.

          ‘False information, unverified sources’: Russia denies funding anti-fracking campaign in US

          Smearing genuine protesters with the “Russian stooges” epitaph is a fashionable slander. The reality is that people in the English Shires do not want the prices of their houses to suffer – that is all they care about.

          21

      • #

        Nothing stops them from being both. Isn’t the longest lasting self declared Socialist state North Korea?

        60

      • #
        Brian the Engineer

        Same same

        30

      • #
        el gordo

        In the day it was a standing joke that at least Mussolini got the trains running on time.

        http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201912/03/WS5de5b6c9a310cf3e3557b818.html

        10

      • #
        DonS

        Hi el gordo

        Socialism and fascism are the same thing, born of the same mother i.e. Marxism.

        When Hitler first ventured into politics he did not join the conservative or right of center parties he joined a mob called the German Workers Party which he later renamed the NASI or National Socialist party. It’s right there in the name.

        Mussolini was a prominent member of the Italian Socialist party prior to WW1 and was enlisted by the French and British to agitate for Italian involvement against the Austro-Hungarians. In the 1920s he split from his mates in the Socialist party and formed the fascist party.

        Hitler and Stalin were very happy to do each other favors in the 1930s because they each recognised the similarities in their political ideas i.e. revolutionary. The war in the east starting in 1941 was in effect a civil war between the 2 prominent Socialist powers and is partly an explanation for the inhuman brutality both sides indulged in throughout the conflict. Very different to the war in the west.

        Xi, Putin, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Castro etc. etc. would all be quite happy in a room together talking about how to bring down the right of center democracies of the west.

        Anyway that’s what I recon, convinced?

        51

        • #
          FijiDave

          Hi, DonS

          Just a minor quibble:

          which he later renamed the NASI or National Socialist party

          National Socialist German Workers’ Party

          National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus)

          Wikipedia, as usual, put their Left Wing slant on it and call it a far-Right group. Since when is Socialism considered Right Wing? NAZI = bad, therefore must be Right Wing.

          00

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Whatever else Russia and China are they are enemies of freedom and self government. We need to recognize that fact or we’re all headed for the graveyard where the remains of dead nations are thrown.

        Putin is ex KGB and it looks like he longs for the return of those times and I’ve seen essentially that opinion several times before now. If he looks for the means to reconstitute the Soviet Union long rough, will he find it?

        Xi is the bigger threat by far. Fortunately China has problems, one of which is Donald Trump, who does’t want to be ripped off by the Chinese anymore. But China has been aggressive in asserting it’s influence around the world, including buying up property bordering the Panama Canal. Our most formidable weapon by far is the Nimitz class aircraft carrier and they will not go through the canal. But we can afford to keep both a Pacific and Atlantic fleet which removes or could remove any military need for the canal. But shipping does not have that same luxury. What could China do with all that canal front property?

        I think we’d best start taking both a lot more seriously.

        72

      • #
        Richard

        Fascism is Socialist..

        10

    • #

      I kind of await the Chinese overlords to take over Victoristan, they won’t care one bit what the Greens and the SJWs moan about. Life may actually improve.

      90

    • #
      George Cross

      The biggest useful idiots are the drones who voted for him. No sympathy at all,

      40

      • #
        Serp

        Labor’s majority increased at the last election but it is still beholden to upper house Greens and plain old Aldi bag style bought influence.

        40

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        My wealthy self made great aunt has very poor opinion over Glorious Leader Andrews and the volunteer firefighter attempt at unionization debacle….

        I suspect all but the clueless rusted on red-ragger comrades that voted for him ( which itself is an irony in Victoriastan ) dont have a high opinion of him.

        70

    • #
      Alfred

      We are fools for allowing any hint of socialism to control our country

      Dear GD,

      Australia is very much a Socialist country. The income tax rate goes up to 45% on individuals – and 27.5% or 30% for companies. GST is 10% on almost everything.

      In Russia, the flat income tax rate for everyone is 13% and 20% for companies. There is no GST in Russia.

      So which country is more Socialist in your opinion?

      Alfred

      70

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    MAGA:

    U.S. Has First Month As Net Exporter Of Oil In 70 Years

    https://climatechangedispatch.com/us-net-exporter-oil-70-years/

    Of course the Russians elected President Trump.

    131

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      That Russia wanted Hillery to win was always known. Her and Obama were doing their level best to destroy America, and Russia and China were loving it.

      Nobody, except the American people, wanted Trump to win.

      222

  • #
    JohnM

    I don’t normally play grammar critic but:

    S/B:
    … Sent $95 million to NGOs …
    Or
    … Spent $95 million on NGOs…

    ?

    40

    • #
      JohnM

      I was referring to the headline.

      If memory serves, the U.K. Shutdown coal production over a decade ago. Long before fracking appeared on the scene.

      I’ll run the traps for accurate facts.

      Regards,
      John

      40

      • #
        JohnM

        From WikiStupidia:
        “The first experimental use of hydraulic fracturing in the world was in 1947, and the first commercially successful applications of hydraulic fracturing were in 1949 in the United States. There has been significant fracking in the US, where it has allowed electricity to be produced using gas rather than coal, halving the associated CO2 emissions.”

        The U.K. used fracking starting in the 1970′s. In late May 2011, the first UK exploration for shale gas using high-volume hydraulic fracturing was suspended at Preese Hall at Weeton in Lancashire after the process triggered two minor earthquakes.

        Looks like the Royal Society got involved in 2012 followed by the European Commission in 2014 to set standards.

        “In March 2019, the High Court found the UK government’s policy was unlawful and failed to consider the climate impact of shale gas extraction. In November 2019 the government announced “an indefinite suspension” to fracking, after a report by the Oil and Gas Authority (OGA) said it was not possible to predict the probability or size of tremors caused by the practice.”

        Looks like UK’s own “experts” beat Russia to the Kill.

        80

        • #
          JohnM

          OGA – Oil and Gas Authority

          “The OGA regulates the licensing of exploration and development of England’s onshore oil and gas resources, and it has strict controls in place to ensure that operators manage the risk of induced seismicity from such operations. The OGA issues well consents, development programme approvals, completion of work programme approvals and production consents.”

          Hmmmm, is this a governmental agency?

          30

  • #
    Latus Dextro

    It wouldn’t have worked if the West had good media, and if schools taught students how to spot con artists, witchcraft and fake reasoning.

    This feels like caveat emptor and peak stupidity rolled into one, catalysed by the neo-Marxist imbued Fourth Estate and slogan indoctrinated education. And don’t overloook, in the background the legion of Saw-ros funded NGOs, those UN accredited institutions that comprise UN ‘Civil Society’ working intimately with the UNEP to promote a divested, de-industrialised, de-populated, diseased, destitute and borderless Green utopian world of evil chaos.

    Is there a spine left anywhere in the West? Is there an appetite for freedom, prosperity, hope and small government and the sovereign identity of the nation state?
    Yes there is, but almost no where in the socialist infected former British Commonwealth, with the exception of nascent WEXIT Canada, which, as music to my ears and balm before my eyes, proposes among several things to:

    *Ensuring that publicly funded schools teach the importance of Western Canada’s energy industry, while protecting the rights of parents in matters regarding sexuality or religion.
    *Outlawing groups whose primary objective or effect is racial agitation, or social chaos.
    *Withdraw from United Nations agreements that erode Western Canadian Sovereignty, including but not limited to the UN Compact on Migration, the Paris Climate Accord, and Agenda 2030.

    Is there a platform like that in Oceania? Thankfully there is in New Zealand. It’s a start; New Conservative.

    Meanwhile, south of the Canadian border, MAGA & KAG.

    US oil output will overtake OPEC’s by 2024, thanks to fracking

    United States Exports of Crude Oil data, h/t to fracking

    10

  • #
    Latus Dextro

    Comments inexplicably blocked.

    10

  • #
    Drapetomania

    Travis T. Jones
    December 4, 2019 at 5:00 amOf course the Russians elected President Trump.

    Nice try..
    The post was about dis-information.
    Don`t try and segue to a lame conspiracy like “Russiagate” country…god who could forget the “steele dossier”..it will hang around the democrats neck forever..made %CAGW$ evidence look robust.. :)

    110

  • #

    Big Oil is shocked, shocked, to find that paid shilling is going on in here!

    (Er, your winnings from the War on Coal, sir…)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

    60

  • #
    Ross

    A bit O/T but if you missed it you must look up a replay of last night’s Jones and Credlin show on Sky. A big segment on coalfired power stations but also an extremely powerful bit of television, an interview with a farmer who has had the authorities move onto his farmer and remove all his stock (except about 50) without him having any say at the time or being allowed to film what what was going on ( Jones got photos of the stock at the Dubbo stock yards). Jones said among many other things, something like –”this is Australia. I cannot believe this happening”.

    This water issue has the possibility of blowing up big time in Morrison’s face and creating huge political problems for him. The Nationals face an even bigger problem –maybe even a fight for survival if they do not wake up according one farmer shown on the program.

    160

    • #
      Dennis

      Murray-Darling Basin Plan legislation by the Gillard Labor Government and involving the state governments that have constitutional authority for water supply.

      50

      • #
        Dennis

        “What’s in the Plan
        At its heart, the Basin Plan sets the amount of water that can be taken from the Basin each year, while leaving enough for our rivers, lakes and wetlands and the plants and animals that depend on them.

        We know the Basin encompasses a complex network of people, industries and organisations with competing interests and this is why water needs to be managed carefully for future generations.

        Managing water is complex. It is a partnership between:

        the Australian Government
        New South Wales
        Queensland
        South Australia
        Victoria
        the Australia Capital Territory.”

        22

        • #
          Dennis

          There are those words again: “for future generations”. Like National Parks and Marine National Parks.

          UN Agenda 30: Sustainability

          90

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            You mean future UN sponsored slavery……?

            Ignorance is Strength

            40

            • #
              Dennis

              I cannot understand how our elected representatives can hold their heads up high knowing that they are permitting UN interference into our sovereignty as a nation.

              Federal and State with local government all cooperating.

              President Trump has already warned the UN to back off during addresses to them in New York.

              70

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Well, its unlikely that the whole climate change nonsense could have got as far as it has without govt of all flavours’ assistance….

                60

        • #
          PeterW

          So how does pouring good fresh water out to sea, benefit “future generations”?

          How does flooding areas during a drought, that would naturally be dry because it’s a drought.?

          How does keeping an estuarine lack permanently fresh….?

          120

          • #
            Ross

            Peter & Dennis

            From what I can see (I’m from NZ) I think the farmers should throw the environmental issues “back in their face”. For example I saw a farmer interviewed a couple of nights ago saying his farm used to have birds all over the place –they are gone as are probably all the insects etc. etc. The trees that are being damaged if not destroyed by the river over flowing in some areas. They should ask about those environmental issues.

            The other aspect of it that seems all wrong to me is how the water entitlements / quotas are traded. Apparently foreigners, doctors , lawyers, city folk can own and trade them just like shares. That is crazy –it should just be between water users. It should not be a money making scheme –just a mechanism to make more efficient use of a scarce resource.

            150

            • #
              Dennis

              Peter & Ross

              I agree with your comments, the Agenda 30 and other UN agreements with the Australian Government and States need to be reviewed and probably dumped.

              The last two visits by me to Mildura Victoria and Wentworth New South Wales, the last mid 2018, the river was in flood, parkland fenced off for public safety, no doubt environmental water flows responsible, what a waste of water.

              80

              • #
                glen Michel

                The intermittancy of rainfall and river flows are always going to be a problem for Australia. The Murray and Darling rivers should be treat3d separately as the Darling is out of the equation as it contributes little to the overall. Consider that Burrendong, Keep it,Copeton and Pindari have to fill significantly in order to contribute to tributary input makes that system a non player for some time. Regulated or unregulated? No rain:no flow.

                20

  • #
    James

    Watch RT. They have many videos on youtube. Some of the coverage is way better than the western media of US politics, but they sure tow the party line about fracking. Once they run out of the easy gas and oil, I bet they will start to frack in Russia!

    60

    • #
      Dennis

      The gas pipeline being constructed from Russia to Germany for power station fuel might bring fracturing into play sooner rather than later James?

      30

      • #
        James

        One of the reasons for the new pipeline is so that transit via Ukraine is not longer necessary. Now the EU has stated that they will no longer buy gas for Ukraine and sell it to them at a subsidized price. It is the same gas that they always bought from Russia but with a middle man subsidizing it. Now Ukraine will probably for, an alliance with Russia again. The $5000 euro’s per month jobs that were supposed to come from EU membership have never happened, and eu membership has never happened.

        There is a good video about this by “the Duran” on YouTube and bitchute.

        70

        • #
          Alfred

          The most destructive thing ever done by the West and its agents to Ukraine was to close the border with Russia. This only happened because those running Ukraine at present were handpicked by the USA.

          The same thing in a much milder way happened to the countries of the European Union by sanctioning Russia.

          The only countries to benefit from sanctioning Russia were the USA and China.

          If you wish to know what falsehoods were used to sanction Russia and who are the real villains, read this:

          The Untouchable Mr. Browder?

          41

  • #
    PeterS

    As was announced today a new report has shown Australia students are being dumbed down. We are falling more and more behind other countries. It’s clear how it’s happening. The education system is more interested in indoctrinating students with “climate change” than teaching them proper topics, such as critical thinking skills and the basics. I make a prediction. Although these are state issues Morrison has to come out of his dream world and sound alarm bells. He also has to break the nexus around renewals versus coal. The best way is to allow, promote and subsidise nuclear power.

    50

    • #
      Dennis

      Following down the path that the Blair Labour Government created in Great Britain, he was a great educator PM the spin doctors claimed.

      And one of the Spin Doctors was a former Labour GB advisor, John Mctiernan, who was brought to Australia on a 457 Visa by the Labor SA Government and later brought to Canberra to join the Gillard Labor Government. His attack plan used against an opposition leader in GB based on misogyny was of course used to target Opposition Leader Tony Abbott.

      And the great educator PM Gillard and Labor Government donations to the Clinton Foundation for UN education purposes, and the Gonski Education Grants to State Governments, commenced in Labor’s 2013/14 Budget but they made no provision to pay for it, same with their National Disability Insurance Scheme. Two very high cost budget items unfunded, leaving the Abbott led Government from September 2013 to borrow the funds.

      Obviously the socialism masquerading as environmentalism and globalism new world order politics including dumbing down students.

      The Abbott led Opposition did agree to support Gonski if they were elected to government, but they placed a time limit on their support, and said they would negotiate to arrange for back to basics in public education. I understand that has taken time because too many teachers, notably younger teachers, were never taught the basics. Recently the NSW Premier announced that the basics will return to schools soon.

      30

      • #
        Dennis

        As with all Labor political stunts expect to hear soon from them accusing the Morrison led Government of running education down, with a chorus repeating the allegation at state level.

        50

    • #
      Serp

      Strewth PeterS, in a country which is refitting its new submarine fleet from nuclear powered to diesel there is no chance whatsoever that a nuclear fuelled power station will be built.

      You keep recurring to this theme oblivious to the huge construction lead times and the massively expensive capital outlay which can only be recouped by even higher power prices than renewables have saddled us with (read up on Hinkley Point’s contractual travails) and all that’s before considering the life span of nuclear power plants which is half that of coal fired plants which may be continually refitted effectively lasting forever whereas after twenty-five years nuclear is shut down and has problems of nuclear waste disposal to manage.

      30

      • #
        PeterS

        You miss my point. Most of us here agree that coal is the way to go but both major parties are locked into a death spiral by restricting new coal fired power stations all in the name of reducing our emissions. So Morrison would be smart if he broke that nexus and allowed nuclear power stations to be built and reduce our emissions more than what the ALP+Greens would ever do. That way the left would be stumped with their fingers up the you know what. You have to understand Australians are being conned more and more into believing a reduction in our emissions is a good thing. OK then so let’s do it seriously and stop mucking around the edges. It would be far cheaper and better than moving to over 50% renewables, which the ALP+Greens will do if and when they win government.

        10

      • #
        Zane

        Decommissioning a nuclear power plant takes 20 years and requires thousands of workers. At least in Victoria, these would be six figure wages. Huge amount of regulations (expensive compliance), lots of concrete used in construction (checked concreter prices lately? Had a short concrete path done to the front door a while back, $1200 ). Any accidents or radiation spills and compensation and cleanup costs are in the tens to hundreds of billions. That’s why coal and natural gas are more economic. Coal is the way to go for eastern Australia, except for this moronic opposition from vested green interests.

        30

        • #
          PeterS

          Yes I suppose it’s much easier and cheaper to blow up coal fired power stations. How come then we aren’t building them? The reason of course is both major parties are hell bent on reducing our emissions. One thing is for sure. The only way we will ever build new coal fired power stations en mass is for China to take us over. Of course they would not hesitate to build nuclear ones to boot. Australia has become a nation of wimps.

          30

      • #
        Alfred

        Dear Serp,

        Russia’s electricity comes largely from nuclear power stations. They are currently the only serious exporter of nuclear power stations worldwide.

        The cost of electricity (including all taxes) in Russia is USD 0.067 (AUD 0.099) per kWh for households whereas it is around AUD 0.275 in NSW. Australia is 2.7 times more expensive.

        Russia electricity prices

        In view of the above, how can you sustain your claim that nuclear energy is more expensive?

        31

    • #
      greggg

      The single biggest difference between before the decline in academic performance started and now is wireless devices numbing brains.

      00

  • #
    robert rosicka

    There is a huge fear campaign being spread by the left and even some on the right about the fracking process , I sent Jo a diagram of how the modern system works which is amazing all the engineering that has gone in to the process to make it safe .

    41

    • #
      Peter C

      I sent Jo a diagram of how the modern system works which is amazing all the engineering that has gone in to the process to make it safe .

      Maybe Jo will add that to the headline post, or even make it a separate post.

      40

    • #
      Dennis

      I listened to a senior engineer from the SA Moomba Gas Fields speaking about hydraulic fracturing and how the company she works for has extended the commercially viable life of the company using that technology.

      And that the process is very safe.

      41

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      >> “frackers are the moral equivalent of …

      …people who know how to rescue Thai kiddies from flooded caves?

      10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Regarding Melbourne Friday get together:

    Please note that for reasons beyond my control I have had to change the venue to one about 2km away from the first one. The new venue is in Prahran in the vicinity of High Street and Williams Rd. Time will be 6pm to 8pm in the dining section then we’ll have to go to bar section. Date is still this Friday 6th December. I will send out emails today to those that responded via Jo. If you still want to come send an email to Jo.

    10

  • #
    Maptram

    Scientists have found a black hole with a mass so large that it breaks current stellar evolution models, in other words models can be wrong.

    https://au.yahoo.com/news/2019-12-01-stellar-black-hole-is-larger-than-science-expected.html

    30

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      It’s larger than they thought? Oh nooooooo…

      Twentieth day in a row with no sunspots. No wonder jet streams (in both hemispheres) are going wonky up/down loopy:

      https://www.spaceweather.com

      Spotless days -
      2019 total: 256 days (76%)
      2008 total: 268 days (73%)

      Twelve more ‘quiet’ days and it’s a draw with 2008; thirteen more spotless days and 2019 will be the winner! No doubt UN CCCrap-meisters will accuse humanity of this crime against Gaia and wail for more sackcloth and ashes and austerity as it’s LARGER THAN THEY THOUGHT!!!

      60

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        In a Universe laden and burgeoning with carbon in the form of complex organic matter, planets with seas and lakes of methane and ethane with methane tributaries and rain, meteorites with organic compounds including complex sugars, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), they should be strongly encouraged to engage in unending self-flagellation in penitence for their infinite intellectual self-abuse [archaic].

        30

    • #
      greggg

      Black hole or a ball of plasma.

      00

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Mind you Australia is the second biggest exporter of gas, we would also benefit from any campaign which limits fracking

    Also – and appropriate in the current drought, where is the water going to come from? you do need lots, and it also needs to dumped somewhere, as it is too dirty to use on the land, or in the town.

    The US EPA released this: https://cfpub.epa.gov/ncea/hfstudy/recordisplay.cfm?deid=332990

    But you can be sure commie russian greenies made it all up /sarc

    46

    • #
      Graeme#4

      While currently there is no need for WA and NT to frack gas, surely other states, especially Victoria, could greatly benefit from fracking their own gas. But I also believe that the landowners should be paid for gas extracted from under their properties, as per the U.S.

      91

    • #
      PeterW

      That we might benefit, alongside the Russians, does not justify spreading misinformation.

      Also, if we want to replace coal with gas for baseload power in NSW and Vic ( I’m not a fan, but we need something better than the unreliables) then we need the local resources and not demonizing the process is a must.

      50

      • #
        PeterW

        Sorry…. Point I meant to make is that driving up domestic power prices by denying ourselves significant gas reserves is not justified by export income.

        …… Unless you have shared in an export company.

        60

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Good to hear, no misinformation is a good thing. And it ends badly usually – Asbestos, tobacco, oxycontin, spring to mind. In each case the misinformation was done to benefit an industry, and it worked a treat. So with fracking, it behooves sceptics to look at who benefits, as in this case those Russians and their gas.

        Of course, if your income depends on that misinformation (cigarette companies as an example) you will double down, astroturf your little hearts out, fund spurious studies, sponsor front organizations with nice names like Heartland as an example

        28

        • #
          Graeme#4

          While I agree with you Peter about some misinformation, I believe the GWPF is an excellent source of information, and don’t regard them as misinformation at all. For example, an excellent thought-provoking article on why we shouldn’t be recycling plastics is a document I often reference.

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          robert rosicka

          Peter as someone who has taken OxyContin for nearly ten years on and off but mostly on I get the feeling that again you know nothing about it .
          Yes it can be addictive but for some it’s the only thing that works .

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          Peter Fitzroy: misinformation is a bad thing — Since you slur Heartland, best you spell out exactly what you allege they are a “front” for or do astroturfing, or have provided any misinformation, and exactly what that was. My experience with Heartland is that they do better science conferences than any academic institution and are run by outstanding people.

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            • #
              AndyG55

              Not one of these is a reliable source of reality.

              They are all far-left propaganda machines.

              They lack any sort of credibility.

              You know that, which is why you choose those links.

              Stop your petty unsubstantiated slurs, PF !!

              [Andy, for whatever it's worth, I'm proud of you.] AZ

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            • #
              Mark D.

              Liar. Your unsupported slur was entirely aimed at Heartland.

              You can try to feign innocence but you fool no one. The tobacco slur is also key well worn saw.

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            • #

              On Tobacco, my understanding is Heartland merely pointed out there is no statistical support for the claims of danger from passive smoking, and campaigns as a “free choice” group.

              Apparently Peter Fitzroy thinks that misinformation on passive smoking dangers is a good thing, and that groups who explain the accurate situation are worth slurring by association.

              So Peter, is misinformation “Good” or “Bad”?

              Is the world a better place if we lie about something? Should the government wage battles against things of minor importance, hide the facts, not let people choose?

              If you weren’t attempting a pure slur of Heartland you wouldn’t have linked to defamatory front groups and not to the source. But perhaps lies are useful? You think?

              What kind of guy is Peter Fitzroy?

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                Roy Hogue

                This passive smoking bogyman was debunked by Steve Milloy at junkscience.com so long ago that I’ve changed computers twice and of course lost the bookmark which might not even work anymore anyway.

                This is only supportable if you make an assumption before you ever try to correlate cause and effect that passive smoking is not an independent phenomenon and you can take a shortcut to the right answer.

                Taking shortcuts is guessing, not science and not good statistical math. If you examine the passive smoking case by simply demanding that there be at least 95% confidence — standard practice by mathematicians, engineers, scientists everywhere — there is no correlation. Passive smoke is unpleasant and I’m glad to be rid of it in public places but it is not a risk for cancer or other nasty things you end up with if you smoke.

                That is not to say that passive smoking may not irritate existing conditions or be a problem. But being dishonest about the thing is not helping anyone. And I’m very sensitive to this nonsense because my father smoked like a chimney for all the years I lived under his roof — many evenings smoke floated like a cloud across the living room — and here I am today with lungs that are free of any problem. And yes, I know that fact proves nothing. Nevertheless, my curse on the dishonesty. If misuse of mathematics was a crime I could convict no end of so-called experts. And I’m not nearly the math heavyweight that our self appointed guardians are. What is the matter with them?

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      Roy Hogue

      Peter Fitzroy, I don’t have any particularly great insight on the workings of the EPA or anything else. But after reading you for a wile I’ve been wondering if someone made you up. Is there no subject upon which you do not have enough expertise to comment authoritatively? Climate change to opioids, it all seems to fall within your portfolio to comment about and you’re never uncertain.

      Most curious of all, if you get backed into a corner or you get challenged to provide evidence to support yourself, you never respond. I know you probably don’t have any love for AndyG55. He mistreated you badly and I’m sure I probably haven’t read nearly every exchange between the two of you. But one thing is quite noticeable, you never made the effort to give him even one statement containing evidence to support what you had been saying. All you could do is put up more of the same kind of non evidence that apparently made Andy mad. You seem to run from one dead end argument to the next and keep right on going without the slightest sense of shame.

      Who are you? I’ve been hanging around this blog for almost its entire existence and I remember quite a few like you who came to show us all the error of our ways but none of them resembles you. You’re a unique phenomenon to Jo Nova’s blog and I think there must be more to you than you let on.

      Judging by the past I doubt that you’ll answer me. You certainly didn’t make any effort to give me the evidence I asked you for. And of course I could be wrong about something. But you’ve been hanging around for months now if memory serves me and you don’t add up. Who or maybe what in hell are you Peter Fitzroy?

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        Peter Fitzroy

        So I put up evidence to support the view that in a drought, diverting water for fracking is a bad thing, particularly in a country which is already the second largest exporter in the world for gas.

        I then in 13.2.2 point out that misinformation is a standard tactic, and list 3 common examples, and point out that the aim of misinformation is to protect a business.

        As to having a competency in order to comment on any subject on this blog, I don’t recall that as a requirement when I signed up, nor is it in the guide to commentators. Given how most use a non specific screen handle anyway, I don’t understand your point. Am I supposed to list my qualifications in my screen name like you do?

        As to AndyG55 – I have lost count of the times I have linked to articles which show how CO2 is a greenhouse gas. To say that I never provided evidence is false. To just reject the evidence out of hand as Andy was wont to do is just childish.

        As to longevity on the blog, I have been lurking on the edges for ever starting before the BEST reanalysis blew up in Anthony Watts face. It is much tamer for Contrarians now, I remember posts where employers were contacted and asked to sack the employee for daring to post material that was critical of the topics here.

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          Given how most use a non specific screen handle anyway, I don’t understand your point.

          I’ve lost count of the number of times screen names have been explained to you, but you still slag off in your ad hom [snip] way, a way that only you people on the far extreme left think that it’s okay to do, and I can see your reply now saying there’s no way you did this, as you don’t even think you did anything wrong at all.

          Back in the days long long long before you even started to lurk here, websites ADVISED strongly AGAINST using your real name and selecting a screen name, and then sticking with that, as to comment in those days, ALL comments went to moderation, and your screen name was then checked by that site’s Administrator with the email address before approval for the Post was given, and if it didn’t tally, it wasn’t posted as a comment.

          Even the ABC in its formative days of online participation did EXACTLY the same, and I remember well their Forums that they had where you could freely contribute, and they also strongly advised against using your real name. I was a regular contributor there, explaining all about power generation in the same way I always have done, and in those days, what I said was receved quite well, as technical explanation, something that would not even be considered to post at the ABC these days.

          Right from when I started out, I used the name I did, and I still use it to this day. That’s no reflection other than it’s easily recognisable, both here, and in the U.S. as well. I have always signed of with ….. Tony, my real name I use, and I headline my own Posts with my full name, Anton Lang.

          So, Fitzroy, stop slagging off about screen names, will you. It’s unbecoming, not for all of us, but for you, but hey, you’re immune to all that aren’t you. After all, as you have said so often, we are all untruthful with everything we say.

          Further reference

          Tony.

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            Peter Fitzroy

            That was then, this is now.
            Either way, unless you include you resume in your screen name, how in god’s name is anyone supposed to know what your credentials are.
            Again, there is no requirement on commentary that you have to have any qualifications whatever. Why do do yo harp on this?
            Again if you post something on a thread about misinformation, what should you expect

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            • #

              Peter, stop wasting time on screen names. Unlike believers, skeptics get sacked, exiled, their kids even get targeted — so anyone here is more than welcome to use a screen name. I will protect their identity.

              As it happens 2 seconds of googling joannenova and tonyfromoz turns up this link, all his guest posts and every one lists his full name.

              It’s your off topic ad hom smear.Enough ok?

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                Peter Fitzroy

                I’m sorry, it’s not about the screen name, and I should have made that clearer. It’s about the credentials and that I’m continually asked to supply those, on a blog where anonymity is protected. If anonymity means anything, it means that all comments have equal weight.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                “it means that all comments have equal weight.”

                Except that your are invariable based on mantra rather than any actual science

                As such, basically worthless.

                30

            • #

              Peter, you mention this:

              Either way, unless you include you resume in your screen name, how in god’s name is anyone supposed to know what your credentials are.

              Had you even once, just one time, followed a link to one of my Posts at my home site, at the foot of EVERY single Post with my name is a short bio, and as part of that short bio is a further link to my full bio, specifically posted as ….. “His Bio is at this link.”

              It just goes to show again and again and again, that when you specifically ASK for a link, and one is then provided, you have NEVER even bothered to take that link, otherwise you would have noticed it, further proved by the now four times I have linked to the Comment shown at 14.3.1.1 as Further link, and had you taken that link, then you most certainly would have responded. That comment alone proves my point incontrovertibly.

              You are hypocrisy writ large.

              Tony.

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              Roy Hogue

              Either way, unless you include you resume in your screen name, how in god’s name is anyone supposed to know what your credentials are.

              Let’s see here… …I can’t find anyplace where you gave us your credentials. For all we know you could be a bot from Mars.

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            Alfred

            Hello Tony,

            How did you get your photo next to your comments?

            I have not been on this site for many months. I looked in the obvious places but have failed to find a way of uploading a profile photo.

            Thank :)

            Alfred

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            • #

              That came as a surprise to me also.

              When I originally started out at what I now call my home site, way back now in March of 2008, I submitted my Posts to the site’s owner via email.

              After a couple of weeks of this tedious method, (a new Post every second or third day) Ed (site owner) gave me login capability, so I could write my Posts directly into Draft, work on them, add images, cats and tags, and then schedule them for Posting.

              After a couple of Months of this, he then made me an Editor, along with site Admin capability as well, and that allowed me to roam more freely around the site.

              After a further short time, he asked me to fill out a (longish) bio, so I could link to that with a short bio at the foot of my own Posts.

              In doing the Admin for that bio, there was part of it where, if I wished, I could upload an image of me that would sit with my bio. (or so I thought at the time) Once I uploaded that image, I could then place it alongside my name at the top of each Post.

              However, what happened next surprised even me, and here you need to realise that all this was twelve years ago now, so back in the formative days of blogs just staring out.

              When I would comment at any and every other website, you usually had to make a comment using one of the website formats, and WordPress was one of those, so I always selected to comment using WordPress. Immediately I hit submit on that comment, and (in those early days) that comment then went to moderation, as they always did in those days of almost twelve years ago now, that image of me appeared alongside my comment. I wondered why, as this new comment was not at my home site, and, from my own home site, I logged into WordPress Admin Helpline, and asked one of the many people they have there the question regarding the image. He told me that from now on, at ANY and every site I leave a comment at, no matter what the format, that image will appear every time.

              And it has. However, I’m pretty sure you have to be ‘attached’ to your own blog site, or as an Admin/Editor ‘fixture’ at one to be able to have an image attached to comments you leave at any site.

              So, my guess is you have to be a blog site owner or operator to have an image of your choice attached to comments.

              Now, while that bio was first written in 2008, it has changed twice after that original, and each time it was changed, it only reflected my change of address, from Coomera, to Rockhampton to (now) Beenleigh. The rest is as originally composed in early 2008. I’m thinking of changing the image, as that one you see was taken on ANZAC Day of 2008, so it’s a little dated now. However, in much the same vein as my screen name, which I have now used for almost 18 years, people are used to that screen name, and also the image as well, so any change is not going to be an easy thing to adjust to.

              Tony.

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              • #

                Sorry, I left out the link to that bio. As I mentioned above, it’s part of the short bio at the foot of every Post in my name, but to save going through that process, here’s that link to my bio.

                Tony.

                00

              • #
                Alfred

                Thank you Tony. I did not realize you were some sort administrator here. Uploading my photo is not at all important. I simply got a little curious as to why I was unable to do the same as you. Envy if you like.

                BTW, has anyone mentioned that your tiny photo seems to bear some resemblance to the 1970′s version of john cleese? When he was the hotel manager of Faulty Towers. :-)

                00

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                To get your choice of picture associated with your email address instead of the automatically generated one, read all this. It will tell you everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask about those little pictures called gravatars (global avatars).

                Be sure you understand that many sites use the service, even YouTube so wherever you go, if your email address is known and that site uses the service your gravatar can show up.

                If your email address is seen for the first time with nothing having been submitted by you then something is auto generated and that’s what you get from then on unless you change it.

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                Alfred

                Thank you Roy. I don’t want all these sites to show my photo so I think I will let that one rest. :-)

                00

            • #

              gravitar. It is links your email address, which is entered in many comments sections, to a photo you give to gravitar.

              00

        • #

          Peter, it is disingenuous of you to pretend that providing evidence CO2 is a greenhouse gas is relevant. You know that I and nearly everyone here already agrees with that.

          AndyG (and the rest of us) want information that CO2 causes significant warming. There needs to be a cause and effect link. We have posted many references showing that most of the energy captured by CO2 appears to leak to space. You have posted nothing at all that shows otherwise.

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            • #

              Righto. So you tell me Peter. which ONE of these shows CO2 causes warming. This is a random spray. “Congrats” that you know the difference between a peer reviewed reference and a blog site.

              Do you understand a single link / ref here, or are you hoping I’ll waste hours going through them for you?

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              • #

                And no you didn’t post this link ever before on this site http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/04/the-lag-between-temp-and-co2/ I did a random pick and the only link of yours I searched for, didn’t turn up in the last ten years here.

                whatever. On this site we ground through that kind of reasoning a decade ago. you must have missed it.

                And seriously? It’s just a ten year old apologist article defending Al Gore’s weasel words. It shows he’s not completely wrong technically on the exact words he used for the Vostok graph (even if Al was totally wrong and misleading and outright lied by gross omission… )

                This is the evidence you rely on?

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                Peter Fitzroy

                this one would do https://phys.org/news/2010-10-carbon-dioxide-earths-temperature.html

                I’m not asking you do do anything. I was asked to supply “AndyG (and the rest of us) want information that CO2 causes significant warming.”
                This I did.

                As I’m not sure what level you want to see, I though a shotgun approach was best.

                As far as necessary – I have supplied (on multiple occasions)
                1. The mechanism for CO2 and why it is a greenhouse gas
                2. the effect of increasing CO2 in the atmosphere, and why that is correlated with temperature

                I’m assuming that in this context ‘significant’ is what a 1 degree C rise in the last 100 years would be.

                04

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                yep, in my pre dinner hurry I posted from real climate, but the wrong link. opps my bad

                13

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                AndyG55

                As Jo says,

                There is not one tiny bit of measured empirical evidence in any of this load of propaganda nonsense, and regurgitated links.

                You have provided a non-science mechanism that doesn’t actually occur and which you are incapable of actually describing in your own word, because you lack any sort of real comprehension of actual atmospheric functions.

                all based on zero-evidence suppositions and zero real-space measurements.

                And you have not provided any proof whatsoever that CO2 causes atmospheric warming.

                All you have linked to is regurgitated AGW mantra.

                40

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Andy what is your counter? all you do is dismiss anything I post, but you have yet to point to anything like the links I use.

                14

              • #
                AndyG55

                I have countered each of these links before, several time.

                I am not wasting my time doing it again..

                Now answer the questions.

                Which link contains empirical evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2 , and where in the link.

                These are your links, surely you must know. ;-)

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              • #
                AndyG55

                Come on PF.. One link , which contain that empirical evidence

                Can you, or can’t you

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                AndyG55

                from your phys.org link

                Our climate modeling simulation should be viewed as an experiment in atmospheric physics,

                In their own words, its nothing but an unvalidated modelling experiment, !!!

                Do you seriously accept this as real evidence.. WOW !!!

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              AndyG55

              PF,

              Jo has asked you to point out which of this load of zombie links actually contains the empirical proof of warming by atmospheric CO2.

              I have, in the past, destroyed every one of them as containing no such evidence.

              We are still waiting !

              40

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                now we have the word “Empirical” – are you going to define what you mean by that. I’ve supplied NASA, and NOAA measurements – but they are not good enough for you. Please spell out exactly what you want.

                14

              • #
                AndyG55

                Sorry PF, but if you are incapable of pointing to the empirical evidence in your links,

                It obviously does not exist

                They are your links, after all .

                Where is it !

                40

              • #
                AndyG55

                It is great to see PF yet again falling flat on his face when asked to produce actual real evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2 :-)

                Keep up the evasion tactics, PF.

                Everyone can see you squirming. :-)

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              • #
                Roy Hogue

                For the benefit of Peter Fitzroy…

                Definition of empirical.

                Peter, it is well defined and understood in any context, particularly where Andy asked you for it. It is not necessary to define it here. If you don’t agree with or do not know that definition the problem is yours, not Andy’s or any one else’s. It is yours.

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                Peter, BTW – you haven’t posted that link before either. Just sayin’…

                Now I would consider a model as possibly cause and effect evidence. Empirical is obviously the only thing that counts really, but given the complexity, for the moment I’d settle for a model, but there are still some basic requirements. 1. Validated (It isn’t). 2. This must be the only model they use, not just one of 156.

                This paragraph merely shows the delusion of their paradigm. They think this is an “experiment in atmospheric physics”.

                “Our climate modeling simulation should be viewed as an experiment in atmospheric physics, illustrating a cause and effect problem which allowed us to gain a better understanding of the working mechanics of Earth’s greenhouse effect, and enabled us to demonstrate the direct relationship that exists between rising atmospheric carbon dioxide and rising global temperature,” Lacis said.

                Given that a model can be created to produce any outcome at all, it means nothing to say, “we created a model and found what we are looking for”.

                That was 2010. Did they predict the pause? No. Did they hindcast the MWP, LIA? No. Did they hindcast rainfall, droughts, cloud cover. No.

                If this model is The Right One, oh holiest of models, we won’t know that for years. But given the dismal performance of all models since 2010 we can confidently say that this model, like all the others, is missing some major drivers of the climate (namely probably solar spectral, solar wind, and or solar magnetic.)

                Since the only “success” of models is to recreate warming that may have happened for other reasons in the last fifty years, they have nothing.

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                Peter Fitzroy

                You see, this sums up my problem with commentators here

                You are asked to provide evidence – this you do
                The evidence is dismissed as old, or a model or for no reason I can see. (heartland and tobacco)
                A bunch of unsupported assertions are made (“the pause”)
                I’m accused of using google.

                If I don’t provide evidence
                then I’m accused of hiding or not responding to the request
                yet when I ask for the opposing evidence I get nothing

                Rinse and repeat.
                Finally I’ll quote Gee Aye
                “I do find the sensitivity of some commenters perplexing and contradictory. Disagreement is immediately called disruption. Presenting evidence is labelled distraction and is dismissed without being countered. Not following the script is a tactic. Writing something that is provocative to the receiver is baiting.
                I could but I wont but I can if you want, find and label disruptive, distracting, tactic driven and provocative comments who agree completely with the blog topic. They are frequent. This is why I find the objections to such comments perplexing. Can they really not see how this is manifest in comments of posters who they agree with? The labeling of the disagreeable posts as disruptive or whatever is often an empty and tactical attempt to shut down debate. It is tedious and transparent.
                Even more frequent are the off topic ones, sometimes at post #1 which is really just rude.”

                03

              • #
                AndyG55

                Not one bit of empirical science in your whole load of zombie links.

                You have not presented any scientific evidence just regurgitated mantra.

                The fact that you refuse to show which of your links has that empirical evidence, shows that you actually know that to be the case.

                Your childish attempts at evasion and distraction and weaselling out of doing so, are borderline pathetic.

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                AndyG55

                Citing Gee Aye as an argument does not add to your credibility, PF !!

                20

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                AndyG55

                “A bunch of unsupported assertions are made”

                A bunch of scientifically unsupported assertions is all that AGW is built around.

                Like warming by atmospheric CO2.. assertions, models .. No actual evidence.

                20

              • #
                AndyG55

                “A bunch of unsupported assertions are made”

                the pause..

                Well no, actually 2 pauses.

                No atmospheric warming from 1980-1997

                and no atmospheric warming from 2001-2015

                And look, supported by actual data. :-)

                Now, PF, which of your propaganda links shows empirically that increased atmospheric CO2 causes warming, and where.

                Still waiting, and we have been for a long, long time. ;-)

                Cue another PF duck, weave, and distract !

                10

              • #

                Peter, You didn’t deal at all with my request to explain why we should believe a model that is unvalidated and known to be wrong on the pause, the MWP and the LIA?

                You didn’t deal with the missing solar factors?

                Feel free at any time to post arguments explaining why we should spend billions based on “simulations” with no track record of success?

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              • #

                AndyG — I know you have discussed those papers and “Evidence” x 10, but to be fair on Peter and in this conversation (this minute) and onlooking readers, it’s not an answer just to say “been there done that”. I understand if you can’t be bothered, but Peter needs a real answer (of course, if you have answered him before it would be fair to link to that past conversation, and that would indeed put a very different spin on things.)

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                AndyG55

                Jo, PF knows that those link have been decimated several times before.

                He is all about wasting people’s time with continued regurgitation of the same nonsense.

                It is one of his methods of trolling, of seeking attention.

                Sorry, but no more.

                10

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                AndyG55

                Until PF is prepared to do his own work, rather than regurgitate a load of mantra links, and show us which link and exactly where in that link he has found some empirical evidence for warming by CO2..

                Then I see no need in wasting any more time on it.

                They has his links.

                Show us were, PF !

                10

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                AndyG55

                But because I have a day off and don’t feel like doing any work in the garage,

                A quick summary

                1. Shows CO2 cannot maintain temperature peaks, we knew that, PF ;-)
                2. Contains only that CO2 has risen
                3. LOL
                4. Just mantra rhetoric. Not evidence
                5. Just mantra rhetoric. Not evidence
                6. History of the scam, Not evidence.
                7. Just mantra rhetoric. Not evidence
                8. Schmidt models garbage. Not evidence of anything but corrupted science.
                9. Models, unvalidated, not evidence.
                10. Using nitrogen cooled sensors to measure non-heat.
                11. More models, unvalidated, meaningless. Does not show any link anyway.
                12. Conversation mantra rhetoric of total anti-science. Laughable
                13. Rhetoric, contains zero evidence.

                And his other favourite link it to a NOAA list of junk science , destroyed here

                10

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              AndyG55

              The first NASA link clearly shows that when CO2 was at its peak, it was totally unable to stop the world cooling

              Not a great start, hey PF ;-)

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            [Snip about moderation]

            03

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          Roy Hogue

          Peter,

          Jo nailed you before I could get back to see what’s going on. You willfully miss the point. It’s all about credibility and yours is lower than the bottom of a well and I have trouble figuring out why you stick around.

          Frankly,I’m having some fun these days laughing at you because no matter who takes time to explain something to you, you stubbornly refuse to understand.

          Were I your boss in business or industry somewhere and I asked you to explain yourself much as I did above I would consider your answer weak and questionable. It lists excuses, not accomplishments. And I still can’t tell who or what you are or why you come here only to be told over and over and over again that you’re wrong.

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “I have lost count of the times I have linked to articles which show how CO2 is a greenhouse gas.”

          And I have lost count of how many time you have been shown that there isn’t one skerrick of measured evidence in any of your zombie links.

          You apparently have zero understanding what real empirical science is actually about

          You have failed magnificently at every post !

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            Peter Fitzroy

            In 1970, NASA launched the IRIS satellite measuring infrared spectra. In 1996, the Japanese Space Agency launched the IMG satellite which recorded similar observations. Both sets of data were compared to discern any changes in outgoing radiation over the 26 year period (Harries 2001). What they found was a drop in outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as CO2 and methane (CH4) absorb energy. The change in outgoing radiation was consistent with theoretical expectations. Thus the paper found “direct experimental evidence for a significant increase in the Earth’s greenhouse effect”. This result has been confirmed by subsequent papers using data from later satellites (Griggs 2004, Chen 2007).
            https://www.nature.com/articles/35066553
            https://ams.confex.com/ams/Annual2006/techprogram/paper_100737.htm

            17

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              AndyG55

              The Harries paper was eventually retracted.

              Do you homework, PF !!

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              AndyG55

              Also, the total OLR has not diverged from the atmospheric temperature, showing that all that is happening is a frequency shift.

              50

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                ???? can you explain

                04

              • #
                AndyG55

                What, again ???

                How many times do I need to do that ???

                40

              • #
                AndyG55

                I’ll try it one last time, just for you, PF.

                If there is no divergence between OLR and atmospheric temperature over time,

                then there is no heat being trapped by increased atmospheric CO2 over time.

                Do

                you

                com-

                pre-

                hend !

                50

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                AndyG55

                Also funny that they have to use devices cooled by liquid nitrogen to measure all this hot radiation. ;-)

                One day you may gain a basic understanding of physics, PF

                But not this century !!

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              AndyG55

              Again, this so-called “forcing” from within the system, (not adding )to the system)

              … which is of course immediately countered by the atmospheric function within the system.

              Amazing how all the heat from the bushfires just “disappears” isn’t it , PF. ;-)

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              http://TheGlobalWarmingFraud.wordpress.com

              presents hundreds of scientific papers, videos, dozens of lies and misrepresentations by Climate Change Fanatics who are monumental Eco-Hypocrites. They fly and drive around the world daily preaching to everyone who attends, by driving and flying millions of miles, how BAD IT IS to …. fly and drive around the world. They could videoconference, but why not travel on Uncle Sam’s buck, or the contributions of AlGorian followers. 1400 private jets overwhelmed the tiny airport in Davos, Switzerland for that Eco-Hypocrite conference. THE dominant greenhouse gas is water vapor, at 15,000 ppmv. Meanwhile the total annual increase in atmospheric CO2 is ~1.3 ppm. So the Eco-Hypocrites go crazy over 1.3 annual increase in 15,500 ppm? And humans produce only 4% or less of that 1.3 ppm? Insane. Truly. See the Scary Graph in the website above. It’s a fraud, like so much of Climate Change.

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              Peter,

              forgive our bluntness and lack of patience. We’ve done 1000 rounds of “where is the evidence”. We are ten years ahead of you. You are just about to find out how fragile and weak the evidence is and how you have been grossly misled by people earning big money to “find a crisis” and by religious journalists who (like you) didn’t test their assumptions and follow the chain of evidence. Not that I’m suggesting you are religious, just naive and sheltered.

              Here’s the link to the 2010 post where I discuss “Harries et al”

              John Daly described how the the results from the Harries 2001 paper were weak, and the only significant result was due to methane in any case and not CO2. Daly also found a media report where Harries said:

              “There is no evidence in the report on whether or not the surface temperature of the Earth is actually rising. Harries said this is because the greenhouse effect could start a climate cycle that forms more clouds, keeping more of the Sun’s rays from reaching Earth.“

              ie. Harries himself acknowledges that his paper can’t tell us much about whether minor greenhouse gases will make much difference to the world’s temperature.

              In short, at most, Harries et al shows that CO2 is indeed increasing in our atmosphere and absorbing frequencies as we’d expect (nothing new, and nothing I disagree with). What the Harries paper doesn’t show is what happens to the most important greenhouse gas — water vapor — which makes all the difference as to actual temperatures on Earth.

              And As AndyG said, the Harries paper had an error that was corrected later which neutralized one of its main conclusions anyhow.

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          AndyG55

          “To say that I never provided evidence is false.”

          Its just that what you think is evidence, has no actual scientific basis whatsoever.

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          AndyG55

          “To say that I never provided evidence is false.”

          The true statement would be that you have attempted to provide evidence, but have failed miserably

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            Kalm Keith

            Andy, that’s wrong.

            If he Never tried, how could he have Failed.

            On the other hand when looking at his main aim, Blog Disruption, he certainly has not failed.

            KK

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              Roy Hogue

              Blog disruption…

              Thank you KK. I was not willing to say it directly without a little support. But you’re right. He’s all about disrupting this blog. He has steered this thread alone down so many different paths I can’t keep track of them easily, all to no new revelations, no new insight, just lots of argument.

              Science and Peter Fitzroy are disjoint sets.

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      Latus Dextro

      #13 — “we would also benefit from any campaign which limits fracking”

      How?

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        Peter Fitzroy

        As we are an exporter, it makes sense to nobble any competition which might impact on on that. For example we export ‘clean coal’ to Japan, which is better than the coal produced by Indonesia, although thermal values are similar.
        So if a net gas importer, like the UK is dissuaded from fracking, that market remains open to us – and if Brexit happens, we might be in with a chance against the US

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          Environment Skeptic

          …ah yes…the intergovernmental panel of temperature measurements.
          Thanks Peter. Galileo is clearly on your side.
          We have the US, the UK as you suggest, and now Peter, we have the intergovernmental party.

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            Environment Skeptic

            Personally i have nothing against an intergovernmental party that is against any kind of pollution, although clearly, CO2 is plant food.

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          Kalm Keith

          Hey Jo! Look at this.

          FP has made a comment that makes sense, is logical and interesting.

          Still, accidents do happen so maybe it was just the law of chance that says that it being one comment out of 1,469 just confirms that it was most likely that, a random event.

          KK

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  • #

    [...] Nova on the successful Russian intervention to undermine fracking in the West. Russia makes about $300 billion in gas and oil exports each year. For a tiny tenth [...]

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  • #

    This goes directly to the use of natural gas to replace coal fired power, and here, this is far and away the biggest example, so the best one to look at. This is in the U.S. and it shows what I have been mentioning for so long now, how natural gas fired power has replaced coal fired power, due in the main to this horizontal fracturing for natural gas.

    And it came along just in time really, because the oldest fleet of old tech coal fired power plants was in the U.S. Barely twelve years ago now, the average age of the WHOLE fleet of coal fired power plants in the U.S. was between 49 and 50 years, and in fact closer to 50. That’s the AVERAGE age, as there were plants older than 75/80 years still in operation. Those old plants were small ones, averaging between 10MW and 100MW, mainly in that 10 to 20MW range, small Units supplying small areas, and lots and lots of them.

    What has happened was that all those little tiddlers were closed down, and larger gas fired plants were constructed to supply larger areas formerly served by a few of those tiddler coal fired Units, so they didn’t need as much Nameplate as all those old coal plants combined Nameplate.

    I understand that there’s something of the ‘tune out’ syndrome when a table of figures is linked to, but bear with me, as this won’t be too difficult.

    Here’s the chart of figures at this link.

    No need to scroll anywhere as what I want to show you is right there at the top, as the page opens.

    See the years marked down the left. See the headings across the top of those years. Look at Coal, the left column and Natural Gas, (NG) the fourth column from the left.

    Look at the totals for coal and NG for 2009 and 2018, and do the maths, pretty simple, just subtraction.

    NG has all but replaced the closure of coal fired power in its entirety, Coal Minus 610TWH, NG Plus 550TWH.

    The difference is Industry which has been lost in the U.S. and was once a much larger consumer, and is now much smaller as those Industries have now relocated to, well, you can guess. A lot of smaller Industries in local areas now either combined into larger operations, shut down, or relocated. And no, that extra coal now closed has not been replaced by wind and solar.

    That page of figures only shows those ten years there, and when I started back in 2008, those figures went back to the late 90s, and coal fired power started with a 2 as the first figure, so that replacement of coal by NG started (slowly at first) even earlier than the 2009 where this set of figures start.

    All of that is due to the horizontal fracturing ‘boom’ in the U.S.

    That is perhaps the major reason CO2 emissions in the U.S. have fallen by the greatest percentage factor of almost any Country on Earth, as CO2 emissions from NG are a lot less than from those ancient coal fired plants that were in operation. There are still a lot of coal fired plants in the U.S. older than 50 years, but some of them in the age group of 60 to 80 years have now closed.

    Tony.

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      Graeme#4

      Was about to add a comment above about the use of gas for energy instead of coal. WA now has 40% gas power and still seems to maintain low consumer energy prices with electricity at 26c/unit. Another advantage of gas is that you can add peaker units to bring into use at peak times.
      The average U.S. consumer electricity cost is US$ 13c/unit, mostly due to their increased use of fracked gas.

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      Peter Fitzroy

      Given the topic of this thread, are you saying that this is all misinformation? I can not see any other reason to post it otherwise

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        Fitzroy, your comment just reinforces the fact that you just ‘blast away’ with negative responses for the sake of it, without even thinking laterally in the context of what was written by (a) Joanne, (b) the reference she provided, and (c) the response I made in my comment.

        Joanne mentions in her Post’s title ….. “Most of the West….”

        Her reference mentions that Russia started its so called campaign of disinformation fairly recently.

        My response detailed how the hydraulic fracturing for natural gas was what led to the wholesale replacement of coal fired power dating from the date in my reference, 2009, and even before that, as I carefully mentioned, which is earlier than the Russian anti fracking meme they came up with, so one part of the West did not fall for it at all. That’s something I have regularly written about, both at my home site, and here across all these years.

        The fact that you cannot hold those three thoughts in your head at the same time, and correlate one with the other is more of a reflection on you, really, so for the sake of calling us all li@rs at the earliest opportunity you can, you just jumped straight in, foot in mouth, to bleat that somehow I was being mendacious again.

        Further reference

        Tony.

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          Peter Fitzroy

          in case you have short term memory loss – this is the title of the thread
          “Russians spent $95 million to NGOs to feed “shale fear” and anti-fracking campaigns. Most of the West fell for it… ” (nice attempt to cheery pick by the way)
          This is not about fracking, it is about missinformation and how much you can spend in it.
          you immediately jump off topic, unless, of course you accept the premise that all that info is suspect – otherwise, and I repeat, why post it.

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          Roy Hogue

          Tony,

          Along with everything else he’s a rather deadly bore. If I was having trouble sleeping I could put myself to sleep easily by searching out his last, say 50 or 100 comments and start reading.

          And ever notice how when he doesn’t have facts he argues the words?

          in case you have short term memory loss – this is the title of the thread

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        Roy Hogue

        See what I mean? Here’s a comment with so little to say that I wouldn’t say it. All it does is keep Fitzroy’s name in front of readers after someone with real knowledge and expertise has spoken. Of course it does attempt to cast doubt on what TonyfromOz, a man who knows what he’s talking about had to say.

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        Graeme#4

        A little puzzled by your comment here Peter. Given that the topic under discussion was fracked gas, I thought Tony’s link to the U.S. data on their energy sources, highlighting how fracked gas is playing a major part, was very timely and relevant to the topic. And very interesting – I for one will be saving Tony’s link for future reference.

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      JohnM

      Great chart Tony

      Another reason nat. gas is favored is due to EPA regulations related to small particle pollution.

      During the Obama (war on coal) years, the EPA changed the emission regulations twice.

      War on Coal is foolish — thousands of products use coal.

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    I’ll leave this as a second Comment here, mainly for informational purposes only.

    Note a couple of other points from that same chart of figures.

    Look at the figures for Nuclear there, and note that since 2009, they have gone up. All of those ‘nukes’ are now also approaching an average age of 40 years, and there’s only Watts Bar Unit 2 that’s new in that time frame for the figures. That total generated power figure you see there of 807TWH is 19.33% of all U.S. generated power, and they are all as a fleet operating at a Capacity Factor of 89%. Amazing really, as that CF has just increased across the years. They are just so efficient, for such old technology now.

    Also from that page of figures, note that Total Generation. (the column where the shading changes) Note how despite all the calls for efficiencies in consumption, the loss of Industry, and improvements in electrical power efficient ‘everything’, that actual power consumption is increasing ever so slowly. That increase you see there from 2009 to 2018 of 224TWH is an increase of 5.7%, and that 224TWH is the addition of ONE extra Australia, as our total power generation is (around) 205TWH per year.

    Tony.

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      JohnM

      Efficiencies in consumption – electric cars aren’t an example. Consumers seem to think the charging stations are powered by Pixie Dust.

      You’re right about nuclear – beyond construction standards, the downside is waste rods.

      A couple years back, MIT received a research grant to explore the use of waste rods as a fuel source for power generation.

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      • #
        Alfred

        the downside is waste rods

        I think the MSM is not keeping Australians informed about what is going on in the real world. This article mentions “recycling” 38 times. Here is an example:

        The Elektrostal conversion plant, 50 km east of Moscow, has 700 tU/yr capacity for reprocessed uranium, initially that from VVER-440 fuel. It is owned by Maschinostroitelny Zavod (MSZ) whose Elemash fuel fabrication plant is there. Some conversion of Kazakh uranium has been undertaken for west European company Nukem, and all 960 tonnes of recycled uranium from Sellafield in UK, owned by German and Netherlands utilities, has been converted here. UK-owned recycled uranium has also been sent there.

        Russia’s Nuclear Fuel Cycle (Updated July 2019)

        Additionally, I am sure you know that Australia has unlimited options for storing things in geologically-stable places for millions of years.

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          JohnM

          Great link +1

          Hydrogen Power Storage & Solutions East Germany (HYPOS) is developing the largest hydrogen storage unit in Europe.

          Based on an existing salt cavern in Bad Lauchstädt, Saxony-Anhalt, the project (H2 Research Cavern) is being developed by a consortium of DBI – Gastechnologisches Institut gGmbH, VNG Gasspeicher GmbH, ONTRAS Gastransport GmbH, Fraunhofer IWMS and the Institute of Mountain Mechanics GmbH.

          “After the leach out, the [salt] cavern has a potential capacity of more than 50 million Nm3 working gas. When the plant is completed, it will be the largest green hydrogen storage facility in the world.”

          Source: https://www.gasworld.com/salt-cavern-to-be-transformed-into-h2-facility/2016687.article

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  • #
    Ruairi

    In the West, those who push anti-fracking,
    Are assured of wide media backing,
    While those for shale gas,
    Soon find out alas,
    That political backbones are lacking.

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    pat

    AUDIO: 3h54m59s: 4 Dec: ABC Overnights with Trevor Chappell
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/nightlife/nightlife/11741126

    heard part of the following last nite, where Bill Lott claimed when a “renewables” future looked likely, the fossil fuel industry funded Unis to counter the case for RE. that is not on the audio, however because – for some reason, in the early hours of the morning – there are some lengthy breaks for BUSHFIRE EMERGENCY COVERAGE, the first of which cuts out the section of the interview where Lott makes that claim.

    (paraphrasing)

    46min24sec: research/studies/vested interests/peer review. guest Bill Lott, science lecturer (Qld Uni of Technology). industry polluting academia. universities have become profit-driven.
    ABC’s Chappell: is it endemic now? yes, says Lott.
    1h13m27s: fake reviews. who to trust? recommends going to ***Scientific American and er… (Lott can’t name other mags)… a few of them, because their journalist are extremely thorough. some of their articles take years for their journos to collect the info from multiple sources.

    1h20m40s: Chappell: is there PURE research in Unis or orgs?:
    Lott: more & more rare because of move from govt funding to private funding. it needs to be funded through national Govt-funded orgs. this is one reason why CSIRO is so successful, because it’s primarily a governmental org, does a lot of clean research, untainted by conflicts of interests.
    1h23m44s: legitimate scientists never say this or that is a FACT. (FADES OUT AT 1H25M9S FOR ANOTHER LENGTHY BREAK FOR BUSHFIRE EMERGENCY COVERAGE)

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      pat

      beginning of audio: program supported by Marine Stewardship Council (MSC):

      AUDIO: 16min45sec: 3 Dec: Scientific American: Policy & Ethics: How an Idea Becomes a Published Scientific Paper
      Everyday Einstein interviews exoplanetary scientist ***Moiya McTier (Columbia Uni Dept of Astronomy) to learn about the process and why we can trust scientific papers
      By Everyday Einstein Sabrina Stierwalt
      (Sabrina Stierwalt, PhD, is an astrophysicist at Occidental College and the host of the Everyday Einstein podcast on Quick and Dirty Tips)
      https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-an-idea-becomes-a-published-scientific-paper/

      ***Twitter: Moiya McTier: Astrophysicist & Science communicator, …Tryna be the next @BillNye

      Wikipedia: The Marine Stewardship Council (MSC) is an independent non-profit organization which sets a standard for sustainable fishing…In 1999 it became independent of its founding partners, the World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF) and Unilever…
      In December 2016 Private Eye reported that a leaked internal WWF document concluded that because the MSC receives royalties from licensing its ecolabel (providing 75% of the organisation’s revenue) there is a conflict of interest and it has relaxed its sustainability requirements, enabling more products to carry its label, thereby increasing its own income…

      1 Dec: Scientific American blog: The Downside of Solar Energy
      As renewable energy expands, used photovoltaic panels are creating a growing waste problem—but recycling could be the answer
      By Dustin Mulvaney, Morgan D. Bazilian
      Total e-waste—including computers, televisions, and mobile phones—is around 45 million metric tons annually.
      By comparison, PV-waste in 2050 will be twice that figure…

      While supplying only about 1 percent of global electricity, photovoltaics already relies on 40 percent of the global tellurium supply, 15 percent of the silver supply, a large portion of semiconductor quality quartz supply, and smaller but important segments of the indium, zinc, tin, and gallium supplies. Closing the loop on these metals and embracing circular economy concepts will be critical to the industry’s future…

      Solar energy is critical to addressing both climate change and energy poverty. Embracing a circular economy approach to PV-waste and materials recovery is urgently needed to support those roles.
      https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-downside-of-solar-energy/

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      Kalm Keith

      It’s amazing, the number of people totally mesmerized by the filtered ABCCCC messages.

      It’s good to have these specific examples.

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    pat

    3 Dec: Breitbart: Danish Academic: U.N. Might Use Military to Enforce Climate Agenda
    by Simon Kent
    The United Nations may resort to military action against states that defy its mandates on global climate action, according to Ole Wæver, a prominent international relations professor at the University of Copenhagen.
    In an interview (LINK) with ABC News in Australia, Professor Wæver cautions that what he sees as “climate inaction” might draw the U.N. into considering other means to ensure its goals are met, even if that leads to global armed conflict…

    VIDEO: 3min42sec: ABC’s Phillip Adams with Ole Wæver (more XR-type radical action to come, might even see climate terrorism at some point)
    https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2019/12/03/danish-academic-u-n-might-use-military-to-enforce-climate-agenda/

    3 Dec: ABC Could climate change become a security issue — and threaten democracy?
    RN By ***Farz Edraki and ***Ann Arnold for Late Night Live
    That’s the view of Ole Wæver, a prominent international relations professor at the University of Copenhagen, who also says climate inaction could lead to armed conflict.
    “At some point this whole climate debate is going to tip over,” he tells RN’s Late Night Live.
    “The current way we talk about climate is one side and the other side. One side is those who want to do something, and the other is the deniers who say we shouldn’t do anything.”

    He believes that quite soon, another battle will replace it. Then, politicians that do ‘something’ will be challenged by critics demanding that policies actually add up to realistic solutions.
    When decision-makers — after delaying for so long — suddenly try to find a shortcut to realistic action, climate change is likely to “be securitised”.
    Professor Wæver, who first coined the term “securitisation”, says more abrupt change could potentially threaten democracy…

    “Imagine these kinds of fires that we are seeing happening [in Australia] in a part of Africa or South-East Asia where you have groups that are already in a tense relationship, with different ethnic groups, different religious orientations,” he says.
    “And then you get events like this and suddenly they are not out of each other’s way, they’ll be crossing paths, and then you get military conflicts by the push.”…

    Chris Barrie, former Defence Force chief and honorary professor at the ANU’s Strategic and Defence Studies Centre, wrote in October that “climate change is a threat multiplier”…
    And current Defence chief Angus Campbell has warned that increased incidences of climate change-related natural disasters could stretch the capability of the ADF…

    Wæver: “The longer we wait, the more abrupt the change has to be,” he says.
    “So a transformation of our economy and our energy systems that might have been less painful if we had started 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
    “If we have to do that in a very short time, it becomes extremely painful.
    “And then comes the question: can you carry through such painful transformations through the normal democratic system?”…READ ON
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-03/climate-change-international-security-risk/11714284

    the ABC writers:

    ***Christians voted for Trump in huge numbers. This evangelical pastor wants that to change
    RN By Farz Edraki and Chris Bullock for Sunday Extra
    ABC – 8 Nov 2019

    ***Fires are burning in forests that have been ‘permanently wet for tens of millions of years’
    RN By Ann Arnold for Saturday Extra
    ABC – 27 Nov 2019

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      pat

      Ole Wæver doesn’t get much MSM coverage, but prog left Salon had this last year:

      28 Aug 2018: Salon.com: Why does Donald Trump claim his trade war is a matter of “national security”?
      The president’s tough talk on trade signals a major conceptual shift, one that could endanger America’s future
      by Trey Fields
      (Trey Fields is an intern in defense & policy studies at the Niskanen Center)
      In the mid-1990s, political scientist Ole Wæver and his colleagues at the Copenhagen Peace Research Institute laid out a new theory of security that sought to challenge classical security studies thinking. They coined it “securitization theory.” They argued that the concept of “national security” is simply the construct of “securitizing actors” – those in positions of authority on security issues – who could shift a national security agenda and legitimize it through rhetoric and a captive intended audience. In essence, this theory is a version of hyper-politicization in the form of national security planning and agenda-setting. Securitization is not necessarily good or bad, but rather the exercising of power by influential actors to transform national security policy to their liking.

      The theory, while subject to scholarly criticism, has previously been cited in analysis of real-world events, most notably during the Obama administration, in which climate change was “securitized.” Obama became the first sitting president to embrace climate change as a top priority – directing his Defense Department to regard the issue as a national security threat and plan accordingly. Within a relatively short period of time, climate change shifted from an issue of seemingly marginal importance during the Bush administration, who refused to implement the Kyoto Protocol, to an agenda-topping security concern, this despite nearly uniform denial from one of the two major American political parties, largely in part to the commitment of a single presidential administration.
      So what does securitization tell us about President Trump’s trade agenda?…READ ON
      https://www.salon.com/2018/08/28/why-does-donald-trump-claim-his-trade-war-is-a-matter-of-national-security/

      Facebook: Penn State School of International Affairs
      Second year student Trey Fields explores the intersection between President Trump’s trade war and national security in his article published in Salon, originally from The Niskanen Center, where he spent his summer. #SIAWorks
      LINK Salon.com
      https://www.facebook.com/PennStateSIA/posts/second-year-student-trey-fields-explores-the-intersection-between-president-trum/1683994678376818/

      update on Fields:

      LinkedIn: Trey Fields, Associate at Washington Business Dynamics
      I received my Master of International Affairs from the Penn State School of International Affairs in August 2019 alongside a Graduate Certificate in Homeland Security from the Penn State School of Public Affairs…

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      OriginalSteve

      Wow…the UN finally showing its true totalitarian colours.

      It raises a few questions:

      * Who really is the govt in Australia – those we elect or the UN?

      * Would anyone in a blue UN beret be classified as friend or enemy combatant?

      Interesting times….

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        OriginalSteve

        It could also mean using the military to lock up sceptics….it appears to be a not-so-vieled threat to use martial law to crush anyone who woukd speak against global socialism…which in itself basically proves that climate change is a trojan horse for a global socialist takeover via the UN….they appear to have declared thier hand.

        Interestingly, when you look at the people who write this stuff, they appear to be big on “reigional co-operation” for dealing with percieved “security threats”.

        When I think of “regional” you could read EU, AU, ASEAN, NAFTA etc …..culminating in the UN.

        This paper from 2006 puts things in perspective :

        https://dgap.org/en/research/publications/new-faces-conference-2006

        The German Council of Foreign Relations appears to be the German equivelent of the heavily globalist US Council on Foreign Relations, aka the shadow US govt, due to its apparent ability to heavily influence US policy on many issues.

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          Latus Dextro

          OS, my own reading suggests the UN aims to divide the world into faceless, nationless regional trade blocs. I have an academic article published awhile back that outlines this policy.
          The UN and its appendages are unquestionably the bane of civilisation, humanity and progress.
          As for UN Trojan horses, there are fields filled with galloping herds of them, ridden by the accredited NGO riders from UN “civilised society.”

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          • #

            Fields filled with galloping Trojan horses filled with yu know what…tramp, tramp, tramp.
            https://beththeserf.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/eurozone-crisis-topples-l-001.jpg

            10

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            my own reading suggests the UN aims to divide the world into faceless, nationless regional trade blocs. I have an academic article published awhile back that outlines this policy.

            Latus,

            They already think they are the government of the world. The UN is a prime example of what happens when there is no one responsible for watching the watchers.

            Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.

            I learned about this problem from a Robert Heinlein story, probably his second published book, SPACE CADET, as a young teenager many years ago. It appears that not many have read that book or any of a number of other sources from which they should have learned to be very afraid of uncontrolled power.

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      Roy Hogue

      Breitbart: Danish Academic: U.N. Might Use Military to Enforce Climate Agenda

      Really now!? With what military does he think the UN can force either Australia or America (or any one else) to do anything? The UN can’t even carry out it’s original charter responsibility to prevent member states from going to war with each other. Witness the threatening bluster from North Korea. That’s a rather empty statement when talking about the UN which needs troops from member states to do anything. Militarily the UN is a eunuch.

      The UN might also want to consider that their big beautiful world headquarters is located in Manhattan sitting on the East River in a very vulnerable position.

      There must be something fishy in the water in Denmark. It’s no small wonder that socialist nations have all sorts of trouble.

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    Brian

    Let’s not blindside ourselves with an obsession with fracking for gas. Australia is self sufficient with respect to gas and the only reason it suffers shortages and is so expensive is idiotic political legislation and the venality of energy companies. Where we are in a world of hurt is oil. Currently we have less than 21 days diesel reserve in country. Without diesel to fuel heavy transport and machinery the overcrowded cities will quickly run out of food while their waste accumulates. I would suggest that we should pull our collective heads out of the sand, ignore Labor and the Greens and begin importing the US know how to exploit our large oil shale deposits and restore our refining capability.

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    • #
      Dennis

      There are other oil fields, off the WA south-west coast for example, around Coober Pedy SA and in western Qld a number of capped oil wells created by the old Commonwealth Oil Refineries, capped because Middle East oil was less expensive to access.

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    • #
      Graeme#4

      While I agree with you Brian about the importance of oil for national security, I still believe that gas is important as a possible replacement for coal, and I believe that our baseload energy sources are far more important to Australia than oil security.

      20

      • #
        Alfred

        Dear Graeme#4,

        Much of electricity usage in Australia is for almost trivial purposes. The baseload can be substantially reduced in an emergency.

        So how many days would Australia survive on its own oil?

        Currently, Australia’s net imports (including refined products) are around 70% of consumption.

        Australia imports little oil directly from the Middle East. Politicians are proud of that fact. What they fail to mention is that the oil products imported from Singapore and elsewhere come from the Middle East.

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    Zane

    Soviets, Marxists, Russians, and sundry communists/socialists have been promulgating the greenist agenda since the get-go. Anything to reduce the economic prosperity of the West. A lot of vested interests try to keep Canadian oil stranded and off world markets, too. Which is why WCS always trades at a substantial discount to WTI and Brent. Check oilprice.com right now: Brent $61, WTI $56, and Western Canadian Select only $35! Which is why the fortunate Koch brothers are billionaires – their refinery at Pine Bend, MN, being one of the only available buyers of Canadian crude. They refine it into gasoline and make exceptional profit margins thereby.

    Locally all the surfers have been brainwashed into supporting Fight for the Bight… can’t have Oztraya finding any oil!

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    The interesting tale of Chesapeake, though this doesn’t mention how the company was caught giving tens of millions to Sierra Club for the War on Coal and how it wanted to give many more millions when Greenpeace etc howled. https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-fall-of-aubrey-mcclendon/

    Ever tried driving to Bondi on a summer weekend? Too much money is hovering the globe for a parking spot. In the end, it will park anywhere. In this context, you can never know the real worth and profit point of any hot new thing. You only get to know it’s hot and it’s new and you need to be in it.

    Am I for or against the frak? I dunno. Maybe frak here but not there? My concern is the centuries’ supply of primo black coal, all laid out in basins along the Great Divide, our back yard. No need to mangle the Bylong. Rich countries can afford to conserve, be sentimental. The domestic consumption of Australian coal for domestic purposes is the very thing the Fabians are intent on stopping. That’s the very thing I’m intent on supporting. I won’t be distracted.

    Stop globalism. Do tradition, privacy, family, property. Do coal.

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    kevin a

    Fracking is a disaster for the groundwater, pushing RADON into the water table is not good.
    Australia has about 800 years worth of coal, but somehow allows Fracking?
    Ask any farmer what happens to the groundwater after fracking.

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      Australia has 300 years of coal.

      And apocryphal stories of unnamed farmers don’t count as evidence.

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        kevin a

        The most authoritative study of its kind reveals how fracking is contaminating the air and water – and imperiling the health of millions of Americans

        “Our examination…uncovered no evidence that fracking can be practiced in a manner that does not threaten human health,” states a blistering 266-page report released today by Concerned Health Professionals of New York and the Nobel Peace Prize-winning group, Physicians for Social Responsibility. Drawing on news investigations, government assessments and more than 1,200 peer-reviewed research articles, the study finds that fracking – shooting chemical-laden fluid into deep rock layers to release oil and gas – is poisoning the air, contaminating the water and imperiling the health of Americans across the country. “Fracking is the worst thing I’ve ever seen,” says Dr. Sandra Steingraber, one of the report’s eight co-authors,
        https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/the-harms-of-fracking-new-report-details-increased-risks-of-asthma-birth-defects-and-cancer-126996/

        It’s not rocket science.

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          A 30 second skim read suggests this was written by activists not scientists.

          Fracking sites have caught fire – others have exploded, as happened last month in Belmont County, Ohio

          Seriously? Is there an industry on Earth that has not had “a fire” at some point?

          C’mon Kevin… if they were serious they’d be looking at long term cost benefits of fracking deaths per unit energy extracted compared to other industries. How many lives have been saved by fracking? Hundreds of thousands of people in the US have probably lived longer lives because they can afford to keep the heater on. Biggest killer of humans is winter.

          how many people die making solar panels? Did they mention that?

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          AndyG55

          Rolling Stone magazine as a citation

          That is funny ! :-)

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      Graeme#4

      Oh come on Kevin, this blog is not the place for baseless assertions. You really need to put some factual information forward.
      Also it’s interesting the the U.S. Is employing fracking over a wide area, seemingly without any problems.

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      greggg

      I’ll believe the farmers living next to fracking wells before I’ll believe anyone else about fracking. Evidence takes time to accumulate, and most people’s opinions are based on their politics.

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    pat

    3 Dec: CourthouseNews: Judges Claw at Trump Admin’s Academic Purge at EPA
    by THOMAS F. HARRISON
    BOSTON (CN) – Tensions ran high at First Circuit arguments Tuesday where several judges raised their voices in frustration with the government’s attempts to defend an order that purged scores of academic and nonprofit scientists from the agency’s advisory committees.
    “You’d like to think that the EPA gave some thought to the effects of its actions, but this was just a fiat,” complained U.S. Circuit Judge William Kayatta Jr., an Obama appointee. Kayatta described the agency’s attitude as: “well, we’re the EPA, and you’re not.”…

    The Environmental Protection Agency issued the order in 2017, saying scientists who received an EPA grant could no longer serve on advisory committees because the grant amounted to a conflict of interest. The EPA then removed a large number of scientists who work for universities and nonprofit organizations and replaced them with scientists at companies that the EPA regulates.

    Elizabeth Anne Sheppard, a researcher at the University of Washington, gave up an EPA grant so she could remain on a committee. She joined the Union of Concerned Scientists in mounting a court challenge to the rule change. By their count, some 8,000 scientists received EPA grants and are now ineligible to serve as EPA advisers…

    Zachary Schauf, a lawyer for the scientists with Jenner & Block in Washington, D.C., said the order amounted to “open season” on independent science. He said upholding it would mean that the EPA could, for example, eliminate any scientists who didn’t work for a coal company from a committee studying air pollution…
    https://www.courthousenews.com/judges-claw-at-trump-admins-academic-purge-at-epa/?utm_source=wnd&utm_medium=wnd&utm_campaign=syndicated

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    Alfred

    It is clear from reading the above that the Mainstream Media has done an excellent job in portraying Russia as a threat and some sort of autocracy.

    The sad reality is that while you can find newspapers that are critical of everything modern Russia does in Russia, you will not find anything like that in Australia, UK, France, Germany, USA, Japan etc.

    Here is the Moscow Times – which is owned by Americans:

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/news

    You will find numerous articles every day criticizing Russia and Mr Putin personally.

    When was the last time the New York Times criticized the genocide being perpetuated in the Middle East against Palestinians, Iraqis, Libyans and Syrians?

    So long as Australians continue living in this information bubble, other countries will ignore you.

    As for fracking. It is by far the biggest Ponzi scheme the world has ever known. Investors in the USA have poured $250 billion into it and they will not see their money again.

    U.S. Shale Oil In Trouble As Production Stalls After Two Years Of Significant Growth

    Fracking companies are going bankrupt at an increasing rate.

    Fracking Blows Up Investors Again: Phase 2 Of The Great American Shale Oil & Gas Bust

    Whatever the truth about these alleged $95m that the “Russians” spent, shale is a dead horse.

    Australia had better wake up. Your per capita oil consumption is 6 times greater than that of Ukraine for example. BTW, I am in Eastern Europe.

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    pat

    open access, read all:

    3 Dec: UK Telegraph: Catholics urged to divulge ‘eco-sins’ during Confession as Bishops launch a new environmental campaign
    By Gabriella Swerling, Social and Religious Affairs Editor
    As part of an initiative to ensure that the Catholic Church plays a role in tackling the climate crisis, it is encouraging congregants to go to Confession, or “reconciliation services”.
    The lay-run campaign, called Journey to 2030, was launched last weekend in partnership with the Bishops’ Conference and the Ecological Conversion Group, a volunteer group for young Catholics.

    The initiative aims to “create a sense of urgency towards our ecological crisis and those suffering from its ill effects” as well as promote confession of environmental sins.
    As a result, it has created a toolkit for church leaders to help Catholics confess their environment-related sins and is sending out its resources to parishes across the country.

    Before entering the confessional, sinners will be offered an environmental ‘examination of conscience’. This works like a checklist that people can go through before confession with prompts, such as ‘have you taken flights unnecessarily?’…
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/03/catholics-urged-divulge-eco-sins-confession-bishops-launch-new/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

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      Annie

      How impertinent of the hierarchy of the catholic church! I hope congregation members either ignore it or take the mickey out of it.

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        Roy Hogue

        Maybe a better measure if they want to get that rescinded would be to have each Catholic confess at least 3 or 4 hours of eco-sins. Just imagine the lines at the confessional. The priests would be up in arms. The good old denial of service attack speaks louder than anything else I can think of. ;-)

        Well, just kidding. But it just might work.

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    pat

    2 Dec: FoxNews6 Milwaukee: Get paid $12/hour to help shovel snow out of Lambeau Field on Wednesday
    GREEN BAY — Lambeau Field is in need of snow removal — and the Packers want your brute strength to help get the job done.
    The team’s asking anyone who wants to pitch in to stop by the stadium on Wednesday morning, Dec. 4. The Packers are looking for as many as 600 brave people to assist with the snow-clearing process…

    Shovelers need to be at least 18 years old and will receive $12 per hour, with payment to be made immediately upon completion of their work. The Packers will provide shovels to all who come to help.
    https://fox6now.com/2019/12/02/get-paid-12-hour-to-help-shovel-snow-out-of-lambeau-field-on-wednesday/

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    pat

    Winter Storm Brings Snow to at Least 30 States
    The New York Times – 8 hours ago
    Once the storm hit, some parts of Northern California saw more than four feet of snow, with Cedar Grove, at 4,610 feet of elevation in Kings Canyon National …

    4 Dec: Daily Mail: Complete whiteout: Up to two feet of snow covers large parts of Northeast in the aftermath of winter storm that caused chaos over Thanksgiving and left at least seven dead – but now the West Coast faces brutal weather
    •The storm system dubbed Winter Storm Ezekiel will start to move out of the Northeast by Tuesday evening
    •It has left a trail of misery in several states as nearly 37,000 people are without power in New Jersey alone
    •The winter storm also caused at least 400 crashes between Monday and Tuesday morning in New Jersey
    •More than 700 flights have been delayed from the US for Tuesday and another 200 have been canceled
    •Forecasters said storm will continue to ‘bring heavy snow to mainly eastern portions of New England Tuesday’
    •Forecast in New York until sunrise Tuesday, in Boston until Tuesday afternoon and in Maine into Wednesday
    •At least seven people have been killed, including cousins Colby and Austin Rawlings, both five, in Arizona
    •The storm that started on the West Coast ahead of Thanksgiving slowly rolled across the entire country, drenching some areas with rain, blanketing others with snow and blasting some with high winds
    By Valerie Edwards
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7751125/Misery-Northeast-deadly-winter-storm-leaves-tens-thousands-without-power.html

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    pat

    just realised the NYT article is open access. read all:

    3 Dec: NYT: Winter Storm Brings Snow to at Least 30 States
    It’s rare for a storm to cross the entire country with such staying power
    By Vanessa Swales
    A winter storm that barreled across the United States from Cedar Grove, Calif., where it dropped 49 inches of snow, to Ogunquit, Maine, which saw more than a foot, was finally departing on Tuesday, but not before giving New England one last whack…

    Bob Oravec, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service, described the storm as “very long-lasting” and said it was rare for a storm to have that kind of staying power…

    Here are the highest totals for each West Coast and Southwestern state that got at least four inches of snow:
    •California: 49 inches at Cedar Grove, 48 inches at Big Bear Lake and 37 inches at Lake Wishon.
    •Oregon: 15 inches at Rock Creek.
    •Washington: 23 inches at Wenatchee.
    •Arizona: 22 inches at Parks.
    •New Mexico: 16 inches at Black Lake.

    Thanksgiving travel troubles in the Rockies…ETC

    The South was not spared…
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/03/us/winter-storm-snowfall.html

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    pat

    no need to tell u WaPo’s Eugene Robinson has a very bad case of TDS. in the WaPo version, the first pic has the caption: “A child holds a placard during a flashmob protest over climate change on Friday at Lumpini Park in Bangkok, Thailand”:

    4 Dec: Spokesman-Review: WaPo: We’re losing our climate battle. We have no one but ourselves to blame.
    by Eugene Robinson
    (Robinson is an associate editor of The Washington Post. His columns are syndicated to 262 newspapers by The Washington Post Writers Group. He won a Pulitzer Prize in 2009, was elected to the Pulitzer Prize Board in 2011 and served as its chair from 2017 to 2018. Robinson also serves as NBC News and MSNBC’s chief political analyst – Wikipedia)

    As the United Nations opens its 25th climate change summit in Madrid, leaders are seeking to put a brave face on a dismal situation…
    “The last five years have been the hottest ever recorded,” Guterres said. “Sea levels are at the highest in human history.” And as for the crusade to keep global warming below the level of utter catastrophe, Guterres reported that “the point of no return is no longer over the horizon. It is in sight and is hurtling toward us.”…

    History will condemn a host of villains, starting with President Trump. The United States, as the globe’s leading economic power, is uniquely positioned to lead the world toward climate solutions. Instead, Trump is deliberately worsening the problem by pulling out of the Paris climate accord and actively encouraging the increased burning of fossil fuels, including coal. Decades from now, we may well see this as the Trump administration’s worst legacy…

    Chinese President Xi Jinping, unlike Trump, understands and accepts the scientific consensus about climate change. But China’s greenhouse gas emissions continue to soar and are now nearly double those of the United States. Xi continues to value rapid economic growth — fueled, in part, by new coal-fired power plants — over humanity’s well-being in the long term.

    Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has sharply boosted his nation’s carbon emissions as well. The European Union has seen its emissions decline but only modestly.
    At least China, India and Europe are projected to meet their initial emissions targets under the Paris accord; the United States is not…

    Despite what Trump and other ignoramuses might say, there is essentially no scientific disagreement about the fact that climate change is occurring or the fact that humankind is the cause…

    At the Madrid climate summit — where House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) is the highest-profile U.S. attendee — the assembled leaders will hear that prior assessments of climate change catastrophe were understated. Global warming is happening faster than predicted, with more dramatic consequences than previously imagined. Glaciers are melting. Seas are rising. Weather patterns have shifted in unpredictable ways, making monsoon rains unreliable, generating supercharged hurricanes and exposing once-temperate regions such as Northern Europe to deadly heat waves…

    We of the boomer cohort will long have returned to dust before climate change begins to feel like an everyday five-alarm crisis. Our children will feel it, though, and our grandchildren will suffer in ways we can only begin to grasp. Future generations will be mystified and furious. They will see from the historical record that we knew what was happening, that we knew of ways to at least slow it down — a carbon tax, for example — and that we did almost nothing…
    https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/dec/04/eugene-robinson-we-have-only-ourselves-to-blame/

    behind paywall:

    2 Dec: UK Telegraph: Telegraph View: Will Madrid just offer more hot air on climate change?
    With the opening of yet another summit on climate change, the warnings about the impact of global warming are becoming increasingly apocalyptic. The word “emergency” is now associated with policies designed to arrest the rise in temperatures, with the implication that unless more is done soon it will be too late.
    Prof Sir David King, the UK’s former chief scientist, recently said he had been scared by the number of extreme events and called for the UK to advance its climate targets by 10 years. This rhetoric is understandably alarming people, especially the young, who fear for their future on the planet. Their champion is 16-year-old Greta Thunberg, whose emotional pronouncements are becoming the soundtrack of our age…
    COMMENTS INCLUDE “BRING BACK DELINGPOLE”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2019/12/02/will-madrid-just-offer-hot-air-climate-change/

    VIDEO: 4min39sec: 3 Dec: Breitbart: WATCH — Delingpole: The UN’s COP25 Madrid Climate Conference Is a Sick Joke
    MADRID, Spain — I’m in Madrid for the latest UN Climate Conference – COP25 – and literally no one cares…
    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/12/03/the-uns-cop25-madrid-climate-conference-is-a-sick-joke/

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    RoHa

    Oooooh! It’s those EEEEEVIIIIL Russian again. Is there anything subversive they aren’t up to?

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    pat

    all over the FakeNewsMSM:

    3 Dec: BBC: Climate change: Last decade ‘on course’ to be warmest
    By Matt McGrath
    Scientists say that average temperatures from 2010-2019 look set to make it the warmest decade on record.
    Provisional figures released by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) suggest this year is on course to be the second or third warmest year ever.
    If those numbers hold, 2015-2019 would end up being the warmest five-year period in the record.
    This “exceptional” global heat is driven by greenhouse gas emissions, the WMO says.
    The organisation’s State of the Global Climate report for 2019 covers the year up to October, when the global mean temperature for the period was 1.1 degrees C above the “baseline” level in 1850…

    Many parts of the world experienced unusual levels of warmth this year. South America, Europe, Africa, Asia and Oceania were warmer than the recent average, while many parts of North America were colder than usual…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50608845

    4 Dec: Reuters: Without urgent action, yearly extreme heat waves await Europeans
    by Jonas Ekblom
    BRUSSELS (Reuters) – Europe faces the prospect of severe heat waves every year and a halving of some of its harvests in the future unless rapid action is taken against climate change, a study said.
    The report, by the European Union environmental agency (EEA), foresees that uncontrolled climate change will cause extreme heat waves every year in a continent where France and Spain this year experienced their highest temperatures since records began…
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-eu/without-urgent-action-yearly-extreme-heat-waves-await-europeans-idUSKBN1Y72QJ

    3 Dec: ABC: Perth smashes December heat record just weeks after November record melts away
    By Irena Ceranic
    Updated about 10 hours ago
    Perth has posted its earliest 40-degree day in December on record as the city experiences a sweltering start to summer on the heels of a record-breaking November.
    The temperature climbed to 41.6 degrees Celsius just after midday on Tuesday, eclipsing the previous record of 40.4C on December 5, 1977…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-03/perth-hot-weather-smashes-december-heat-record/11762656

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    pat

    3 Dec: BBC: COP25: WWF and Prado Museum use art to show climate change
    Together they selected four masterpieces from the Prado collection to highlight the environmental consequences of various phenomena attributed to climate change…
    Felipe IV a Caballo (Philip IV on Horseback) by Diego Velázquez… PIC
    …is used to highlight the issue of rising sea levels PIC…ETC
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50646625

    4 Dec: The Conversation: I’m a climate change scientist – and I’m campaigning for Labour this election
    by Simon Lewis, Professor of Global Change Science at University of Leeds and, UCL
    Disclosure statement
    Simon Lewis has received funding from Natural Environment Research Council, the Royal Society, the European Union, the Leverhulme Trust, the Centre for International Forestry, National Parks Agency of Gabon, Microsoft Research, the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation and the David and Lucile Packard Foundation. He is not a member of the Labour Party but has volunteered as a canvasser at this election.

    After wrangling between grassroots activists and trade unions, the Labour Manifesto pledges that the “substantial majority” of UK emissions will be eliminated by 2030. This isn’t bluster, as there is serious investment planned across electricity production (more wind and solar), buildings (retrofitting all UK houses to high efficiency standards), transport (investment in buses, only electric cars sales from 2030), and heavy industry (research and development into hydrogen and carbon capture technology), to name a few sectors.

    Crucially, this would be driven by those who control the finances of the country. A new Sustainable Investment Board would bring together the chancellor, business secretary and Bank of England governor to oversee and co-ordinate these major investments. A National Investment Bank with £250 billion allocated for decarbonising the economy provides serious funds. And climate and environmental impacts will be included in the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts, so that the cost of not acting will be factored into every government decision.
    Labour are calling it a Green Industrial Revolution. And it would be.
    By comparison the Conservative Party manifesto lacks ambition and seriousness…

    Finally, geopolitics matters. The world is gripped by right-wing populists who are often hostile to tackling climate change. Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro abandoned hosting this years’ UN climate talks, while Donald Trump plans to pull out of the Paris Agreement. Fearful inward-looking nationalism means that the internationalism necessary to tackle climate change is being eroded.

    The antidote to the rising right-wing populism that Brexit and Boris Johnson are part of, is a Labour government with a Green Industrial Revolution at its heart. And just as Brexit spurred the Trump campaign, a win for Labour would increase the chances of the Democrats in the US reaching office and pursuing a similar Green New Deal. The tide would be turning towards deploying the tools of the state to reshape the economy to seriously tackle climate change…
    https://theconversation.com/im-a-climate-change-scientist-and-im-campaigning-for-labour-this-election-128186

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    pat

    3 Dec: WaPo: It’s possible that Trump doesn’t actually know what climate change is
    By Philip Bump
    See if you can spot the problem in comments President Trump made about climate change during a conversation with reporters on Tuesday, after The Washington Post’s Philip Rucker asked whether he was thinking about climate change.
    “I think about it all the time, Phil. And, honestly, climate change is very important to me,” Trump replied. “And, you know, I’ve done many environmental impact statements over my life, and I believe very strongly in very, very crystal clear, clean water and clean air. That’s a big part of climate change.”

    Perhaps we should have suggested you spot the myriad problems with the response. Starting, obviously, with his suggestion that environmental impact assessments for construction projects have any bearing on the subject at hand.

    More important, Trump’s suggestion that clean air and clean water are “a big part of climate change” is accurate only with a remarkably generous interpretation of his comments. Climate change is a function primarily of the release of gases such as carbon dioxide and methane, largely from fossil fuel combustion or extraction. Those gases enter the atmosphere and absorb heat, preventing it from escaping into space or even radiating it back toward Earth. There are other problems with emitting vast amounts of carbon dioxide, including that oceans absorb an enormous amount of it, leading to ocean water becoming more acidic, but the primary problem is that the presence of more heat-trapping gas in the atmosphere — the greenhouse effect — is increasing temperatures globally…

    As we’ve noted before, Trump instead conflates “climate change” with “environmentalism” broadly and embraces a distinctly 1970s-era argument for what environmentalism entails…

    At no point has Trump ever indicated that he understands the connection between emissions and climate change. He came close in a tweet in September, mentioning emissions reductions in the context of climate — but then continued on to talk about air pollution…
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/12/03/its-possible-that-trump-doesnt-actually-know-what-climate-change-is/

    above reminds me of the furore over Trump saying climate change goes both way! it doesn’t? says everything that is wrong with the FakeNewsMSM?

    5 Jun: BBC: Trump says ‘climate change goes both ways’
    President Donald Trump has said he believes climate change “goes both ways” following a 90-minute discussion with environmentalist Prince Charles.
    “I believe that there’s a change in weather and I think it changes both ways,” Mr Trump told Piers Morgan in an interview that aired on Wednesday…
    “Don’t forget, it used to be called global warming, that wasn’t working, then it was called climate change, now it’s actually called extreme weather because with extreme weather you can’t miss,” the president said…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48531019

    whatever you say, as long as you are CAGW alarmist…

    3 Dec: UK Telegraph: Countries are ‘exposed and vulnerable’ to health impacts of climate change
    By Harriet Barber
    A report by the World Health Organization (WHO), launched as world leaders convene in Madrid for the United Nations climate change summit, has assessed the readiness of 101 countries to cope with the health impacts of extreme weather events such as heat waves, floods and droughts.
    The report – which looked at countries across all the regions of the world – warns that countries are “exposed and vulnerable”, with only half those surveyed having a health and climate change strategy in place.
    And out of these, only 38 per cent have any kind of finance in place and less than 10 per cent have fully implemented and resourced their plans…

    A study by the Lancet in November warned that climate change would “shape the wellbeing” of an entire generation unless the world meets Paris climate agreement targets to limit warming to well below two degrees centigrade…
    And tropical medicine experts warned earlier this year that climate change is likely to trigger mass migration, food and water shortages and the spread of infectious diseases.

    Dr Diarmid Campbell-Lendrum, co-ordinator of the climate change and health programme at the WHO, said: “Climate change is potentially the greatest health threat of the 21st century. It threatens to undermine the progress we’ve made on global health in previous decades.”…
    The WHO estimates that between 2030 and 2050 climate change will lead to approximately 250,000 additional deaths per year from malnutrition, malaria, diarrhoea and heat stress…
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/countries-exposed-vulnerable-health-impacts-climate-change/

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    pat

    3 Dec: Springer: Climatic Change: Modelling the climate, water and socio-economic drivers of farmer exit in the Murray-Darling Basin
    Authors: Sarah Ann Wheeler, Ying Xu, Alec Zuo (Centre for Global Food and Resources, University of Adelaide, Adelaide, Australia)
    Abstract: In particular, the Murray-Darling Basin (MDB) in Australia has faced considerable change in the form of increased temperatures and drought severity, reduced irrigation water diversions, declining real agricultural commodity prices, and declining rural community services. This study applies spatial regression modelling at the regional level to assess the impact of weather, economic, and water factors on net farmer number changes over a 20-year period from 1991 to 2011, with climate risk measured using data from 1961 onwards. Our analysis suggests that the direct drivers of farmer exit in local areas were climatic (e.g. increases in maximum temperature and increased drought risk (through decreased long-term precipitation skewness and increased long-term precipitation kurtosis)) and socio-economic (e.g. decreases in commodity output prices, increased urbanisation and higher unemployment).

    ***Contrary to the current narrative, changes in irrigation water diversions and water trade movements had no significant impact on MDB farmer exit.

    Acknowledgements:
    The authors are grateful for the constructive comments of four reviewers that much improved this manuscript. This research was supported by an Australian Research Council grant FT140100773 and the authors thank the ABS for their extensive work in geocoding census data for this study.
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-019-02601-8

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    pat

    19 Nov: EY (Ernst & Young): Renewable power is only part of the solution to meet net-zero targets
    by Aparna Sankaran, EY Global Media Relations and Social Media Assistant Director – Energy
    To meet net-zero targets, investment is needed not just in renewable generation, but also in the electrification of transport and heat, hydrogen power and smart grid infrastructure, according to the 54th EY Renewable Energy Country Attractiveness Index (LINK) (RECAI).

    The report highlights how the deployment of key technologies, such as distributed energy resources, electric vehicles, demand response and energy storage systems, will accelerate in the future. It also projects that to meet the International Energy Agency’s Sustainable Development Scenario, investment in renewable power would have to double from the US$300bn committed in 2018, to an annual average of US$600bn – reaching around US$18.6tn by 2050…
    https://www.ey.com/en_gl/news/2019/11/renewable-power-is-only-part-of-the-solution-to-meet-net-zero-targets

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    kevin a

    If Russia and China controlled the Australian Universities and media what would it look like, or what would be the “end” result.
    The most anti-Australian, socialist promoting Universities and Media (ABC) possible.
    Where are these teachers from and who are there biggest influences? Ashkenazi.

    Example:
    Sydney University academics denounce western civilization degree
    More than 100 academics call Ramsay Centre proposal for their university ‘European supremacism writ large’
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/jun/08/sydney-university-academics-denounce-western-civilisation-degree

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    Alfred

    If Russia and China controlled the Australian Universities and media what would it look like, or what would be the “end” result

    Russia and China are totally different civilizations. Just because they have a common interest in not allowing the USA to destroy either of them does not mean that they are the same.

    The most anti-Australian, socialist promoting Universities and Media (ABC) possible.
    Where are these teachers from and who are there biggest influences? Ashkenazi.

    I think you are getting a bit closer to the mark. If you want to know who it is that is really ruling Australia, try to think who it is that you are not allowed to criticize.

    Here is an interesting article about how universities like Harvard are now totally controlled by a minority that is self-propagating in a tribal fashion.

    “Based on these figures, Jewish students were roughly 1,000% more likely to be enrolled at Harvard and the rest of the Ivy League than white Gentiles of similar ability. This was an absolutely astonishing result given that under-representation in the range of 20% or 30% is often treated by courts as powerful prima facie evidence of racial discrimination. Furthermore, I noted the possibility that this discrepancy might be related to the overwhelming Jewish dominance of the top administration of those institutions.

    Why White Gentiles Can’t Get Admission to Ivy League Universities

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    observa

    Scientists are investigating T-34 tanks disguised as poley bears and have concluded climate change and the Russians are coming. You cannot deny the climate catastrophe emergency crisis now.

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    You should clarify that “NGOs” means Non-Governmental Organizations, or in other words, nonprofits.
    I had to look it up and I am quite well read.

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      OK. Fair point. We are in a little deep here. Wait til you see what QANGOs and GONGOs stands for… you’ll love that.

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        Roy Hogue

        Wait til you see what QANGOs and GONGOs stands for… you’ll love that.

        Just what the world needs I’m sure. Governments are flaky enough at best. Witness this damnable impeach Trump madness. How much worse would it be when not constrained by anything at all. Try life when “law enforcement” does not need probable cause or a court order.

        How much more of this “fun” must we suffer before we learn?

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    • #
      Alfred

      “NGOs” means Non-Governmental Organizations

      Actually, it is a misnomer. A great many so-called Non-Governmental Organizations work hand-in-glove with malicious foreign governments. The US government alone supports thousands of these fake NGO’s and they have very substantial declared and undeclared budgets.

      Russia, for example, has banned a whole host of these organizations as they were trying to create mayhem. What is happening at present in Hong Kong is largely financed by the British and American governments. The idea that “students” suddenly became so well-organized and equipped is ridiculous in the extreme. This took years of planning and training. The logistics alone were complex.

      The Russians discovered that when they ban NGO “A”, the personnel in that NGO transfer to a newly-created NGO “B” and then they return to Russia. At present, a law is about to be signed in Russia to ban specific individuals – shit-stirrers.

      Australia is lucky. By always following instructions from London and Washington, there is no need to have these NGO’s here. Anyway, the whole political / business / legal / trade union systems in Australia have been infiltrated by 5th columnists a long time ago.

      You can see how these infernal organizations operate in Syria. A classic example is the so-called “syrian observatory for human rights”. It was created by and financed by MI6 and the British Foreign Office. Not some individual working out of his bedroom. :-)

      “Syrian Observatory for Human Rights” is Run by MI6?

      Another bunch of fake do-gooders is the notorious so-called “White Helmets”. They poison and kill kids and film it so that they can later claim that the Syrian government is poisoning its own people. The reality is that Assad is very popular. He is the only president I know of who drives his own crappy car to the front line and talks openly to his own soldiers – without any bodyguards.

      The days when the UK and USA put troops into a country to get control are coming to an end. They are obliged to use mercenaries and their control of the media. Our Julian Assange is currently being tortured in a British prison for revealing these facts. It is a warning to all other genuine journalists.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Wow! That’s quite an indictment and without a single independent source of confirmation too. I do hope that if I were to dare to ask you for it, you could come up with something resembling independent confirmation?

        Please believe me, I would not be surprised if some of what you say is happening. But before I would believe it I would want something more substantial than a blanket statement made by someone on a blog like this one without any support. The one link you provide has all the earmarks I have come to recognize as totally partisan and therefore unreliable. Remember, even after all the years since 9-11-2001 there are still groups trying to hang responsibility around the neck of the United States Government without enough of a case to justify even laughter in response.

        Words are very cheap. They cost only the effort to speak them. That the words be true is a little harder requirement. And that’s an understatement.

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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          What is happening at present in Hong Kong is largely financed by the British and American governments. The idea that “students” suddenly became so well-organized and equipped is ridiculous in the extreme. This took years of planning and training. The logistics alone were complex.

          And how come it is that I should believe this statement which is probably a good analysis as far as the planning and coordination are concerned, and yet when I look at the army of refugees marching north at the U.S.-Mexico border and say, this must be financed by someone if for no other reason, all these people have to eat everyday or they will never make it, I’m dismissed like the idiot child they would like me to pretend to be.

          I may be old but I didn’t toss my brain in the trash one day thinking I had no more use for it.

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          • #
            Alfred

            Dear Roy,

            You may be old like me (69) but your brain is working fine. :-)

            It is well-known that there are ships shuttling between the shores of Libya and the mainland of Europe. These ships pick up “refugees” who are delivered to the ships by boats. These ships are financed by various NGO’s – some them financed by people like George Soros. George Soros is Jewish and helped the Germans relieve other Jews of their possessions and wealth as a kid. he pretended to be non-Jewish. Later, he moved to New York with the wealth he acquired. He is quite unapologetic of what he did – proud even.

            Ocean Viking rescue ship picks up 251 migrants off Libya. Doctors Without Borders and SOS Mediterranee, which operate the new migrant rescue ship, say the mainly Sudanese men and adolescents were picked up off the coast of Libya during three rescue missions.

            I have no idea how these Sudanese crossed the Sahara desert. It is obviously organized and paid for by someone who wants to destroy Europe. Only a handful of South Sudanese in Melbourne seem to have monopolized the “business” of hijacking cars. I am sure half a million of them in Europe will achieve what the Mongols were unable to do.

            I am not familiar with the processes by which “refugees” from south of Mexico transit that huge country. But it is pretty obvious that there is big money and organization behind it. You are perfectly correct. It is the lying mainstream media that keeps everyone in the dark.

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          • #
            PeterW

            Roy…. I tend to agree.

            The argument that the people of Hong-Kong cannot organise and learn, while the world is run by a series of organised conspiracies…. is inherently contradictory.

            Humans are social animals. Organisation is a characteristic of the species.

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            • #
              Alfred

              The argument that the people of Hong-Kong cannot organise and learn, while the world is run by a series of organised conspiracies…. is inherently contradictory.

              Dear PeterW,

              I have no idea what your background is but mine is in engineering and business.

              Believe it or not, organizing revolutions is an expensive thing. You do not need to pay, train and equip every participant in a riot. But the active 10% definitely need a lot of input. Have you seen the equipment the rioters managed to get hold of in Hong Kong? This is not stuff that you can just pick up from the hardware store. Furthermore, there was the media and internet Blitzkrieg that trampled any contrarian opinion. This all costs money. An awful lot of money. Many billions.

              Lenin was financed by German gold. Trotsky was financed by Jewish gold from New York. And the Canadians let him cross their border with this gold so it is well-documented. Napoleon was financed by the Rothschilds as was Wellington – heads I win tails you lose.

              In the Ukraine, Victoria Nuland admitted that the USA had spent $5bn on subverting that country. Good value for money if you wish to start WW3 IMHO.

              The United States spent $5 billion on Ukraine anti-government riots

              To get Julian Assange arrested for reporting reality, the Americans pledged a loan of $4.2 billion to Ecuador.

              IMF Hands $4.2 Billion in Loans for Ecuador for Julian Assange

              You see my dear Peter, there is a price for everything. The notion that things just “happen” is only for the fake history in books that children used to have to learn. Now, in Australia, my kids study no European history at all. :-(

              History books that fail to mention the flow of funds/gold is like a book on anatomy that fails to show the paths of blood through the veins. It is absurd. Follow the money and events that are “happening” will make a lot more sense.

              Alfred

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        • #
          Alfred

          Dear Roy,

          Please enjoy your monochromatic world – where the New York Times, the Sydney Morning Herald and their ilk are your main sources of information.

          The reality is that USA is no longer even pretending to be democratic. Their president is risking impeachment by people who have prevented him from doing his job since 2016. Even the Times of Israel is acknowledging that it is a Jewish coup

          The Jewish players in the Trump impeachment hearings

          The article mentions Alexander Vindman – who is opposed to Trump’s policies in Ukraine although he is supposedly a bureaucrat and not in charge of foreign policy – but fails to mention that he is also Jewish (1% of Ukraine’s population is Jewish)

          It also mentions Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky but fails to mention that he is Jewish as was his predecessor Poroshenko. 90% of current ministers in Ukraine are Jewish. Poroshenko was of course chosen by Victoria Nuland who is also Jewish.

          I guess you will now label me antisemitic for telling you the truth. So where do any of these facts appear in any Australian newspaper or TV report? They don’t because you can guess who is controlling your media.

          Some democracy. :-)

          Alfred

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  • #
    Mark D.

    So PF you have avoided Roy questions especially concerning how it is you single handedly be such an expert in so many specialties? Perhaps you are more than one person under one handle. That would easily explain much.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      He only thinks he is an expert,

      .. when in fact most of what he thinks he knows, is provably just a mish-mash of erroneous nonsense.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        There’s Never been any intention to genuinely engage with, contribute to or learn from the blog.

        Still, I can understand where he’s coming from, a victim of communal thought processes gone wrong, and leadership that follows the media in ever decreasing circles to achieve eventual payoffs from the voters they represent? and pretend to Lead?

        And the blog turns a blind eye to his behaviour so that we can conform with the required guidelines of the woke world.

        DKK

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        • #
          AndyG55

          Notice how he disappeared once challenged to produce one of his links which contained any actual evidence rather than rhetoric and anti-science blah.

          He will come back again, posting the same links that have already been shown to be empty and frivolous, the intent, to waste everybody’s time.

          It is straight out trolling and attention-seeking, nothing more.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      I think Peter Fitzroy exposed himself as what he is. A trouble maker.

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    I’ll take kornflakes please :-)

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