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Extinction Rebellion are run by paid activists — the £200,000 “grassroots” movement

Extinction Rebellion protest

Looks like a religion, acts like a religion…  @ExtinctionR

Just another group profiting from “climate change”

What other grassroots movement has fears of “six figure tax bills”? And these are just the UK figures.

How Extinction Rebellion climate change zealots – including a baronet’s Cambridge-educated granddaughter – are paid £400 a week to bring mayhem to our streets

by Holly Bancroft and James Heale, Mail on Sunday

  • Extinction Rebellion activists are being paid up to £400-a-week to lead protests
  • Activists have been paid more than £200,000 since the start of the scheme  
  • The eco-protest group privately fears it could face six-figure tax bill from HMRC 
  • Tory MP calls on HMRC to launch an investigation into the group’s tax affairs

A document entitled Finance Policy And Processes seen by this newspaper in a ‘work in progress’ version states: ‘The maximum claim for volunteer living expenses is £400 a week (or £200 for someone volunteering part-time).”

But XR’s documents raise concerns about the fact that it has paid no tax or National Insurance on these sums, and questioned the employment status of activists.

The payments aren’t illegal, though the tax avoidance might be. But it says something about the motivations of key players and about how much money all told is still rattling around the alarmist camp. Most protestors are not paid, but how many would be there if there wasn’t money to throw at key organizers?

Speaking of key organisers…

“XR co-founder Roger Hallam asked for £300 a week.” Gail Bradbrook who co-founded Extinction Rebellion, asked for payments of £600 a month. She and Hallam set up the movement after she was inspired by a hallucinogenic experience. The same woman that called for a rapid reduction in air travel, just happily admitted that she flew 11,000 air miles to Costa Rica for a holiday herself in 2016 where she took the drugs. The Sun is pointing out that hypocrisy. After that “trip” she then returned to the UK to start a movement, separate her family, end a marriage and “that was the right thing to do”. Curious phrasing.

Bradbrook, a consultant who has two grown-up sons and lives in a council house in Stroud, Gloucs, added: “I’d been focused on trying to start civil disobedience since 2010. I’d tried many things and they hadn’t worked. So I went on a retreat and prayed, with some psychedelic medicines. It was really intense and I prayed for what I called the codes for social change and within a month my prayer was answered.”

How Psychadelics shaped Extinction Rebellion (XR)

Gail Bradbrook: I’d been trying to start a campaign of mass civil disobedience for years before Extinction Rebellion.

Maybe it’s my Taureun nature but I’m a bit of a bull…

So she is a born activist looking for a cause. Not inspired by scientific evidence so much as astrology and drugs.  Nevermind.

Exstinction Rebellion LogoEverything about this is manufactured theater

XR is even trying to create a look that fits “diversity” memes. Because this movement is about earning status points in social pecking orders, its ranks are filled with white, university educated children. This is not about the hordes affected by extreme weather, which of course, barely exists, and is a smaller proportion of the population today than ever (Pielke 2018).

The Mail on Sunday team has documents showing the organisers are considering putting out a call for “poor and working class” protesters. At least one member objects to the “tokenism” of doing things this way as if black people can just be “ordered from a catalogue”.

No one cares that the whole movement appears to have been ordered from a catalogue.

Even the protestors need protection from their own protests

They say they care about the planet and the poor, but apparently not so much about their own supporters. Green and Black cross was providing legal support but have scathingly abandoned the movement — saying they are peddling misleading and inaccurate information about the legal process.

Extinction Rebellion protests: Activists accuse group of failing to prepare members for being arrested

Phoebe Southward, The Telegraph

But some activists are concerned that the organisation can’t be “trusted” to fully inform those disrupting traffic and camping out on the capital’s major arteries of the potential consequences of having a criminal record.

Green and Black Cross, an independent organisation which provides legal support to protesters, released a statement earlier this year saying it would no longer work with Extinction Rebellion because it has “serious concerns” about the group’s approach to legal and security aspects of their demonstrations.

The scathing critique said their advice was often “simply ignored if it did not align with Extinction Rebellion’s aims and values” and that “misleading and inaccurate” information is being pedalled about the legal process, meaning participants “do not fully understand the risks that they are being asked to take.”

So much for the precautionary principle, and or ethics.

When the weather is not at its best,
It’s time for a XR protest,
So they dress up to meet,
Lying down in the street,
Where they hope to be under arrest.

–Ruairi

h/t Friend in Switzerland.

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Rating: 9.8/10 (86 votes cast)
Extinction Rebellion are run by paid activists -- the £200,000 "grassroots" movement , 9.8 out of 10 based on 86 ratings

196 comments to Extinction Rebellion are run by paid activists — the £200,000 “grassroots” movement

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Just seen a funny meme of the cops in London getting rid of the protesters by using a pop up employment van .

    230

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Soylent Green keeps coming to mind, you know the scene where an unruly mob is scooped up by a skip loader and tossed into a dump truck to be hauled away to be rehabilitated into productive citizens?

      Nuff said.

      90

  • #
    Trygve Eklund

    “Crusaders searching for a cross”. Arthur Koestler put it that way, and later claimed that people being altruistic to (and over) the limit of self-sacrifice was the main reason for the extremism of mass movements.

    150

  • #

    “Everything about this is manufactured theater.”

    I fear that will be the summing up of the early 21st century. And it no longer seems to matter how convincing you can be. I can believe (not confirm) the story about Antifa getting on and off the same bus as the torch-wielding far right fashos. Fakery is getting bigger, but also lazier, as if gullibility’s limits are being tested for some future big event like alien arrival. (Earthlings, pay your carbon taxes and shop with hemp bags or we emit the death ray!)

    It’s public knowledge that AOC was recruited from a casting call, much like the Monkees or Spice Girls. Greta is an actress from a theatrical family, her “discoverer” was a wealthy PR guy known to all in the media. Just add globally watched interviews, ceremonies, awards and coverage and a yacht out of Monaco.

    Even if I agreed totally with these characters I would condemn the process. What is wrong the so-called educated classes who shovel this up with a spoon?

    290

    • #
      TdeF

      Like James Hansen and Al Gore opening the upper windows in the Congress building on 22 June 1988 before James’ speech announcing man made Global Warming, they produced their first very own man made warming. It’s been the Inconvenient Truth ever since. L*es and make believe. Melting Arctic ice, dead polar bears, 400 million Indians dying of thirst through a typographical error, melting glaciers, no more snow, more hurricanes, the hot spot, polar vortices, bush fires caused by Climate Change. The list of fraudulent and wrong claims is endless. Along with world theatre like a Nobel Prize for being totally wrong.

      We in Australia have suffered mightily from the theft of our money from our electricity bills at $6 Billion a year, unused French desalination plants which will over time cost us $100Billion, free pink batts, blowing up and not replacing perfectly good power stations, endless distribution powerlines for unreliables, wind and solar, pylons which blow over in a stiff breeze, an unused $800Million pipeline in Victoria, massive hidden state subsidies for solar panels and billions to keep the jobs in smelters in Port Pirie, Whyalla, Portland and the loss of most of our heavy industry. It’s been the fast undoing of 100 years of progress in the name of defeating Climate Change.

      And we are told it’s been good for us and the planet. More Green bushfires and grass fires through banning of high plains grazing, burn backs, banning of forest harvesting and now they want to ban meat, ban dams and ban coal mines. Because we and we alone can save the planet and even useless diesel submarines running very slowly on imported diesel. And a giant Snowy II scheme. It would be high farce, great theatre if it was just meaningless but the cost to Australia is massive, reducing the whole country to a mendicant state which, like Venezuela, will be at the economic and military mercy of foreign powers. Exactly as they want.

      We are even told we cannot build dams because as Victoria Premier and primary school swimming teacher Steve Bracks told us pompously, “dams don’t make water”. Who needs dams when we have such wisdom? In our land of ‘droughts and flooding rains’, no wonder we run out of water.

      Like the UK, the direct fault of dec*itful politicians on both sides of politics all pleasing friends overseas from the EU and China. More bags of cash. What other explanation is there for such dec*it? It’s why they had to get Tony Abbott out of parliament and Pauline Hansen in jail for six months for stealing nothing.

      The RET needs to go tomorrow while the government pretends to balance the budget, leaving out the massive costs we are paying for electricity and off balance sheet fiascos like the NBN and Snowy II. Australia has been sold down the river, ably assisted by their ABC/SBS/CSIRO/BOM. Sell the lot. Undo the damage while we can.

      350

      • #
        Betapug

        “Dams don’t make water”? But we are told batteries supply power for cars and the grid!
        With just a lttle strategic PR “framing”, start referring to dams as “H2O batteries” and Bobs your uncle.

        220

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        TdeF:
        Extinction Rebellion are worried about the tax authorities. So they should be as history tells us that the tax authorities brought down an unscrupulous but powerfull man named Al who was thought as untouchable to many years in prison.
        I am referring to Al Capone.

        70

        • #
          beowulf

          Yeah but Capone wasn’t a greenie and he didn’t have a judiciary entirely stacked with sympathetic green mates. There were still a couple of judges and juries left that he hadn’t bought off. Look at the recent unanimous Supreme Court ruling on Boris’s proroguement and the Chief Justice boasting about stopping Brexit a day or 2 later. They’ll be let off with a tut-tut because their motives are admirable or some similar contrived dribble.

          A similar thing happened with the UK Electoral Commission (whatever its proper name is) when they trawled through the Brexit party’s finances for months with a fine tooth comb and found nothing; meanwhile the Remain parties were found to have committed gross electoral fr**d, but got let off with a slap on the wrist.

          Britain’s court system is even worse than ours.

          80

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Apologies to RickDre who posted similar on the previous page.

          And beowulf:
          Consider what is likely after the coming election in the UK. Will the new Conservative government (possibly including the Brexit party) agree to forget about the biased actions of the courts and the legal industry? I think not, and rather more changes will be made than the Remainers (legal Div.) would like.

          30

          • #
            beowulf

            Yes, well I don’t share your optimism. The way Bumbling Boris is going — failing at every turn, bluntly refusing an electoral pact with Farage etc — Corbyn might be the next PM by default even though he is hated across the board. Or they could have De-Facto PM Bercow, perish the thought.

            The present judiciary will still be in place for many years regardless of who wins any distant election. The judicial Swamp remains. The whole legal system from Parliament and the Supreme Court down needs cleaning up and reforming, but it would take a PM with a massive mandate and massive will to do something about it. Boris just isn’t that: he’s more of the same, surrounded mostly by those of that ilk. He’s little more than May minus the lipstick and handbag. He still wants a dud deal with the EU. Making the right noises is not the same as doing something positive, and he has a history of fickleness and back-sliding.

            50

    • #
      Russ Wood

      “Manufactured Theater” – Sincerity! That’s the thing! And once you can fake that you’ve got it made!

      120

    • #
      mareeS

      The good thing is, internet makes it easy to call these people out. I seriously hat people hiding behind lies, and as a recently retired journalist I find it impossible to tolerate.

      90

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      There is HUGE money behind this movement. The coordination across many countries can only be arranged by deep pockets and a ‘deep state’ type of system.

      50

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Im waiting for my ‘Big Oil’ cheque to start an alternative rebellion..;)

      20

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      P J Watsons great video (posted on here somewhere) also quotes that the statements by the leader of XR is that “the climate doesnt matter” its the ‘overthrow of govt and industrial society’ that they want.

      20

  • #
    mem

    I would like these people to tell me what temperature they think it should be. Should it be the same as this time last year? Or maybe the same as 30 years ago? And should the centre of the city be the same as out in the country? Given that the temperature, according to the officials, has varied less than 1 C degree over the past century, I really can’t see what the problem is. Get a life is what I say. You are a bunch of worry warts.

    240

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      “I would like these people to tell me what temperature they think it should be.”

      As long as the temperature is surprising.

      During the time of the Spanish Inquisition, the chief weapons were ‘surprise’ and ‘fear’ as the main weapons. …and a fanatical devotion… And the comfy chair…that’s four chief weapons.

      https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsefeg

      90

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      And you forget, the chief thing people complain about is the weather, climate, call it what you will. This has been known for billions of years of human evolution.

      What we have here for the first or second time in history, is complaining about the weather on an industrial scale. Perfectly taxable.

      90

    • #
      PeterS

      I like to know what they expect us to do. Presumably they want most of us to die so the renewables can support a far smaller population.

      100

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        They would like us to complain more about the weather, …like them.

        A friend recently was very annoyed with me because i didn’t complain as much as the said friend did about the weather…when i offered to complain more i was vigorously encouraged, as though i was being taken into the fold. People who complain want more people to complain like they do.

        It is easier to just nod.

        70

        • #
          el gordo

          It clearly illustrates the power of propaganda, even intelligent people have been fooled.

          I tell them that Sudden Stratospheric Warming explains the variability in mid latitude weather at the moment and it maybe a global cooling signal.

          60

          • #
            theRealUniverse

            I dont think anyone has a real idea or theory on what that Sudden Stratospheric Warming event does and how it affects the lower tropo weather. Its guess work, but thats science, I wouldnt read too much into it yet.

            30

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              If you want a good start at understanding the possibilities of a system just look at the temperature range of the stratosphere and its density.

              30

              • #
                theRealUniverse

                Well I mean you need to come with some sort of model and look for the agreeing data. These things take time. Making statements and guessing aint gonna work.

                30

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Stratosphere,

                Minus 50C rising to minus 10C at the top.

                Human optimum habitation about 20°C.

                Then the density considerations which together make it unlikely that stratosphere has any real relevance to the death by CO2 warming issue.

                Just basic parameters to start with.

                :-)
                KK

                20

            • #
              el gordo

              It was intense and we would need to look further back in time for a cyclic correlation.

              https://i0.wp.com/www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/UAH-LS-anoms-NP-SP.jpg

              10

              • #
                theRealUniverse

                That is at first glance a nice straight line with noise peaks. needs a Fourier analysis, remember it is truncated and sampled, hence sampling errors. Not sure what it would show.

                30

            • #
              el gordo

              BoM reckon the 2002 SSW anomaly caused one of the driest years on record, but it has nothing to do with global warming.

              “We view SSW as a natural, internally-generated phenomena,” Dr Hendon said.

              “It just happens to be very rare in the southern hemisphere.”

              ABC

              30

  • #
    Serp

    Pedant bulletin: “they are pedalling misleading and inaccurate information” should be “peddling”, you know as in selling rather than propelling a bicycle.

    [Ta. Fixed. Indeed! - Jo]

    120

  • #
    Greg in NZ

    “SOME [14] PROPOSED TRANSLATIONS OF EXTINCTION REBELLION LANGUAGE”
    Posted by: chaamjamal on October 12, 2019

    https://tambonthongchai.com/2019/10/12/translation/

    “#10. QUESTION: The experts have consensus on getting to net zero emissions by 2050. But you’re saying 2025. That doesn’t sound like you are ‘listening to the experts’.

    “ANSWER: Our expert is Professor Michael Mann, He says that the 2050 figure relies on unreliable carbon capture by gas energy storage. I have no idea what that means but Michael Mann doesn’t like that so we protest against it”.

    150

    • #
      TdeF

      The same Professor Mann who said an accusation that he had committed criminal fr*ud was slander and then refused to prove it wrong? This is having sworn to the court that he would provide his data. Now why would someone refuse to supply the data on which his career is based?

      Why would anyone go to such legal lengths in the US to hide publicly funded data as private property? Data presumably from a single tree? Or even just made up data. We will never know. All we have is an IPCC approved Hockey stick which everyone now agrees is wrong but presumably now the entire basis for the Extinction pantomime.

      (Pantomime:

      A theatrical entertainment, mainly for children, which involves music, topical jokes, and slapstick comedy and is based on a fairy tale or nursery story, usually produced around Christmas.
      OR
      A dramatic entertainment, originating in Roman mime, in which performers express meaning through gestures accompanied by music.)

      110

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Someone posted this before..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckNosm5BQg8
        Go to the end where Dr Ross McKitrick tells the interviewer how he and another pulled apart the Mann ‘hockey stick’ and proved it was statistically (and data) flawed from the start, AND of course Mann ‘didnt know where the data was’..Yeah right! as they say..
        Great interview.

        20

  • #
    Ruairi

    When the weather is not at its best,
    It’s time for a XR protest,
    So they dress up to meet,
    Lying down in the street,
    Where they hope to be under arrest.

    190

  • #
    TdeF

    And if you really want the highest farce, listen to marxist Jeremy Corbyn demanding an election he refuses to have. Because he would lose.

    It’s a incredible situation while the MPs against Brexit know they cannot afford to let the people of Britain have a say on who passes laws in their stolen parliament. And Boris may perversely use the superior position of EU law to the Benn Law, the surrender law made by this improper parliament with the speaker running his own government.

    Meanwhile the US President is being impeached without being impeached by Congress, without any chance of defence, where witnesses are unknown and to remain unknown and not cross examined, their statements are still unknown and the Democrats are on yet another witch hunt to find or create evidence to remove a properly elected President. And more Obama appointed judges are trying to stop the US having any borders and get Trump’s tax return to try to get rid of the most popular President this century.

    In Australia, the US and UK, it is politicians versus the people and that means politicians against democracy. However Morrison, Johnson and Trump are fighting back as the remainers, the LINOs, the RINOs, Australia’s Black Hand and the cash in Aldi bag politicians are finally in the open.

    230

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Another important bit of perspective on the modern activist world.

    This one is a classic with a rich girl “seeing” A new reality for the world with the same aids used by many rock stars in the sixties.

    At the time everyone was sufficiently grounded to understand that the “trippies” were part of the entertainment scene.

    The present trippies are not entertainment, they are Destruction and the only benefit they bring to us is legal.
    It seems that the weekly stipends of £300 pw is coming from somewhere. There’s good reason for the tax office to trace this source of funds back to the point of origin.

    I suspect that if this was done both the donors and receivers would be seen for what they really are:

    The Manipulators and The Manipulated.

    And then the core reason for all this would be exposed:

    The elevation of our household and business electricity accounts to enable the secret enslavement of the masses.

    Watt Tyler, where are you.

    KK

    110

    • #
      Yonniestone

      There’s the rub KK, with so much information available at the fingertips of so many, people are less grounded or aware of whats going on around them, excessive exposure to digital learning has developed a mental speed filter dialed up to eleven thus negating the retention and reasoning of information to the point of thinking they know and understand something if presented in a certain format.

      This conditioning has led to a generation that “knows” and does not “do”, protesting the system that gave them opportunities that other countries can only dream of is not doing anything but showing how powerful the social engineering has worked to bring down independent thought and the love of liberty.

      Extinction Rebellion is a sick irony indeed.

      80

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Once the tables are turned, it will be Rebellion Extinction…..

        90

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        “Extinction Rebellion is a sick irony indeed”.

        We should frame that but the Extincters still wouldn’t get that they are extincting their own freedom.

        50

  • #
    Robin Guenier

    You might enjoy this:

    The Truth About Extinction Rebellion
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFkN5H4CCY0

    90

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Good, even the first few minutes tells the story, but he just keeps hammering. :-)

      60

    • #
      PeterS

      Confirms what I’ve believed for some time. Extinction Rebellion are driven and managed by anti-democratic, anti-Western pro-terrorist activists with evil intentions.

      60

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        By the Elite, For the Elite.

        50

      • #
        Ross

        PeterS

        The Extension Rebellion is just the latest in a long line of similar “organisations”. Antifa in the US, the Greta Thunberg organised circus, the school kids strikes, the anti Brexit protests, the African migrants crossing the Med in NGO boats, the Gina Miller case in the UK Supreme Court , your own GetUp crowd —all have common funding and organisers.

        100

    • #
      sophocles

      Thanks for the link, Robin.
      With all the rebelling about the non-existant emergency they just might go extinct!
      What a pleasant thought …

      This is what we should be worrying about and preparing for.
      Life becomes pretty difficult when The Grid goes down … and stays down.

      10

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    While we’re on the topic of paid activists perhaps we could take a look at how many there are in the public services at Local, State and Federal levels.
    Are they evenly spread or just saturated.
    Not to mention the ABCCC and SBS and the hundreds of internet and radio links provided, “for free” by our “government”.

    KK

    90

    • #
      robert rosicka

      All forms of the ABC are excusing and praising the efforts of extinction rebellion and it’s about time the govt grew a pair and do something about the green cancer that has destroyed a once great institution.
      I posted this yesterday but as an example of just how bad most journalists are here is Nick Kilvert effort again .

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-10-14/humans-co2-volcanoes-climate-change-carbon-cycle/11586226

      70

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        That’s twisted, contorted and sick.

        Whoever put that up on behalf of the ABCCC should be made to justify it.

        I particularly liked the authors description of sequestration where trees, grass and stuff is eventually buried beneath Earth’s surface.

        Until of course, the survivors of extinction rebellion come back to retrieve it in another 3 million years time.

        Another example of the very high standards of ABCCC journalism.

        Ita, Ita, please pay attention.

        KK

        Must admit though the pic of the impact crater was good.

        60

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Why, oh why, did I read that Nick Kilvert ABCCCrap!

          Please provide us with a warning, r r, if you ever post another article penned by that imbecile, especially when he quotes someone by the name of Professor Balz.

          And yes, K K, that aerial pic of Wolfe Creek meteorite crater (Kandimalal) in WA is a beauty! Having parked in the turnaround, walked up-and-over the rim then down into the central, vegetated, iris of the ‘eye’ of the 2nd-largest meteorite crater on the planet (maybe), I had an overwhelming sensation of being a very lucky pupil of the universe. Somewhere amongst my collection of foreign rocks there is a small, fused, iron ‘shale ball’ I collected on the way back up-and-out. An enchanting, enlightening, inspiring spot indeed: thankfully I wasn’t sitting there 300,000 years ago when a space rock exploded overhead.

          50

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            Pursuant to your comment, Keith, about ‘paid activists… in the public services’,
            ain’t no different here with the announcement of last week’s local council elect-shams:

            https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/400924/young-councillors-to-push-on-climate-change-issues

            “Councils can expect more pressure from their own ranks to tackle climate change with a new crop of young councillors determined to fight it head on”. The image in my mind’s eye is of disturbed yoof relentlessly bangin’ their heads against a brick wall, because like y’know, they hate carbon and they hate walls even more. Bang bang BANG!

            “Sophie Handford, 18, is believed to be the country’s youngest new councillor… ‘I think as a young person who’s relatively scared for her future, I feel the fear of climate change most days’”. Wa wa waaaa!!!

            40

          • #
            robert rosicka

            Sorry Greg he definitely should have warning labels on his fairytale stories , as for Micks place a few days before we were there someone had a projector and strung up a sheet between two trees in the campground and played the movie “Wolfe creek ” for the backpackers .

            40

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            I had read about it in one of the Boney books by Arthur Upfield. Now I will have to go there.

            30

  • #
  • #
    Jonesy

    Having a hard time getting a link to an image…

    Go here Monarch

    Put a ring around it and turn it on its side. Ever since this rebellion mob came on the scene, their symbol kept bugging me where I had saw it before…Godzilla!

    60

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      More information needed. Is this the symbol for Godzilla? What is Monarch? The site gives no background to what this is representing.

      I always thought the symbol was a simplified variant of Elric’s Chaos symbol. I know not similar, but the sharp edges are reminiscent.

      30

  • #
  • #
    • #
      robert rosicka

      Can’t believe how many memes have been made of Greta and most of them are hilarious.

      50

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      ..on an industrial scale.

      I continue to be highly skeptical about the environment .

      .

      30

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Id give that 10 ticks if I could :D

      40

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      Folks, remember that Climate Denial is Child Abuse.
      Therefore to protest against child abuse, kids are gluing themselves to main roadways.
      Right, so to protest against other people’s child abuse, you have to abuse yourself.
      Let me see if I’ve understood the analogy correctly. Therefore to protest against other people’s denial of facts about the climate, you have deny facts about the climate yourself. Wow, that analogy really is true!

      Hopefully the Geology Police show up to cut the protestors free of their self-imposed shackles of thermageddon illusion. You can spot the Geology Police a long way off, as they are always wearing Rockports, a mantle, and an Icecap. But very easy to evade them as they they move at a glacial pace. It takes them a long time to respond publicly to any accumulated pressure, and when they do it’s usually only other geologists who notice it.

      20

  • #
    Serge Wright

    My advice to the extinction rebellion group is to stop rebelling and become extinct !!!

    80

  • #
    Tel

    Both the organization, and the organizers should be fined to pay recompense for the damage they have caused.

    No different to the fines I would get if I was running a business and one of my trucks tipped over in the middle of town and resulted in a major incident.

    120

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      If they cause trouble, they get the riot water canon…..thats being kind.

      Then it escalates as needed.

      Any handcuffs etc to be cut off by oxy torch…..

      70

      • #
        el gordo

        Riot water cannon with green dye, like in HK.

        70

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Nah, e g, it has to contain ALL colours of the rainbow; what are ya, redphobic? Yellowphobic? Purplephobic?

          The ‘peacekeeping forces’ can surely purchase striped dye (in 7 magic colours) from the paint shop, no?

          40

        • #
          AndyG55

          Don’t forget to add something PONGY

          Remember an end of school 12th year prank wiping butyric acid all over the stairwell hand rails around the school.

          No me, of course .

          40

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            PONGY additive?

            How about dairy-cowpat: will not only add ‘body’ to the liquid dye, it’ll have that lovely fragrant aroma of Gaia’s great outdoors AND be of a green brown/green hue… then again, it may be impossible to distinguish the protesters from the cowpat.

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            • #
              AndyG55

              I can assure you that butyric acid has serious pong.

              ….rancid dairy smell.

              And extremely difficult to wash off your hands. ;-)

              20

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Then it would be a real ‘color’ revolution..

          40

        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          Riot cannon with glue instead of water.

          40

      • #
        Tel

        There’s no reason to stoop to violence. The dopey kids at the bottom of the heap are just as much victims of this.

        Go after the organizers and the donors who clearly enjoy being well off and comfortable while getting other people to do their revolutionary activity for them.

        30

  • #
    Dennis

    Elderly man in Melbourne with a bicycle tried to explain to very young Marxist demonstrators how many people were murdered by far left regimes and for his trouble was brand “nazi” and told to “f off nazi”, and one of them stole his bicycle.

    Very young girls giving him the finger and becoming extremely nasty.

    100

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Yes, some people need to be severely chastised…..thats putting it politely…..

      Take away all their social media for a year and ban them from all forms of internet-based communictaion – I guarantee they will be well behaved…..

      They should do it – a personal lock down.

      The young things will go beserk without their dumb phones….

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Let me get this straight, according to the post;
    To be a legitimate protestor, you must:
    - Not be educated
    - not be paid
    - never traveled on a plane
    - never done drugs
    - not have rich and powerful ancestors
    - not try to be inclusive.

    Now to be a Catholic priest:
    - all the above
    - not be a pedophile, or have any sort of sexual relations with any adults ever /just kidding, it’s almost the opposite

    So apart from the abstinence bit – you do want so desperately for this to be a religion, but it’s not.
    It is more like the struggle to get a living wage, an 8 hour day, you know those things we now take for granted.

    416

    • #
      AndyG55

      Your RANK HYPOCRISY is showing little PF !!

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “you do want so desperately for this to be a religion, but it’s not”

      Sorry, but is IS a religion

      It all the hallmarks of a religious CULT

      …. no matter how desperately you want it NOT to have.

      Faith based anti-science = RELIGION.

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    • #
      Serge Wright

      CC is more of a cult than a mainstream religion. A better comparison would be with the Branch Davidians. Obviously the CC cult is vastly bigger but both cults share the same doomsday messages of global end and the need to repent. The true test for any cult is the need for a messiah and with Greta now filling that void the question of religion or science is now settled. CC is now offically a religion of left wing loony nutters that glue themselves to roadways and worship a small handicapped child.

      80

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        srsly, they may not be of your political strip, but they have banded together around an idea, much like those who wanted an 8 hour day did, way back then, and those protests were truly violent. ‘Handicapped child’ – is that your level of debate?

        /Surge Right indeed

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        • #
          el gordo

          It might be a cargo cult.

          50

        • #
          el gordo

          “Cargo cult science” performs rituals that imitate science, but are not science. Real science sometimes delivers cargo (fame and promotions for scientists; profits for R&D companies; technologies for everyone else). So, you think, OK, what do I have to do to make that happen? How did those guys do it? So you look to see what they did, and you do the same thing. But usually that doesn’t work well.’

          Chapman (GWPF)

          40

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            Cargo Cult Californicus – ‘I went to plug my toy battery car into the wall socket but it didn’t work, now my car [won't] go’.

            Cargo Cult Newzealandia/Minnesotan – ‘Our Green Party’s next slogan will be Cargo! Every peasant’s private petrol/diesel car [must] go’.

            50

        • #
          AndyG55

          Except their idea is totally irrational and based on LIES and junk-science

          And can never be accomplished.

          It is shear idiocy.

          /PF worships idiocy !!

          61

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘Millenarian ideologies or religious sects sometimes appear in oppressed peoples, with prominent examples being early Christianity, the 19th century Ghost Dance movement, and the 19th and 20th century Cargo Cults.’

          AskDefine

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          • #
            Greg in NZ

            My older sister, now married (2nd-time lucky?) into a Perth Seventh Day Adventist’s clan, has been a follower of a certain Ellen G. White since her twenties. I rarely see her these days so I miss our ‘scriptural ping-pong’ where we battle trade quotes from the Bible to see who knows the most nuttiest one. Apologies to any SDA visitors to this blog :-)

            http://www.truthorfables.com/EGW_Crazy_Quotes.htm

            No.2: ‘In many cases I have advised out-of-door work for piano tuners, telling them that unless they changed their business, they would have to deal with insanity. —Letter 104, 1901′.

            No.4: ‘When these tea and coffee users meet together for social entertainment, the effects of their pernicious habit are manifest. —Counsels on Diet and Foods, p. 423′.

            No.9: ‘In heaven there will be no color line; for all will be as white as Christ himself… members of the royal family. —The Gospel Herald, March 1, 1901, paragraph 20, Article Title: Trust in God’.

            The author of the above blog wrote: When I came across Ellen G. White’s (EGW) crazy quotes doing research, I wondered how I ever believed this stuff—for 37 years. When I read them now I have a good laugh. I hope you see the humor in them also.

            Maybe there is hope for my sister. R’amen.

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        • #
          Serge Wright

          “they have banded together around an idea, much like those who wanted an 8 hour day did”

          That analogy is so lame. All left wing protesters avoid work like the plague and even a 1 hour day would be 1 hour too many when it comes to doing any real work. The other left wing trait is to blame the government, capitalism and even colonialism for pretty much everything they don’t like about western civilisation, which is a very long list. And in typical left wing style they won’t make any personal sacrifices themselves but insist the government must force change upon everyone else.

          And when it comes to the actual idea, the notion that removing 1% of the world’s GHG is going to save the reef, the planet, prevent droughts, storms, floods and other harsh weather, let alone make a discerable difference is not an idea, it’s a pathetic nonsense. I’ll only start taking the ER more seriously when I see them on the front lawn of the Chinese embassy in Canberra demanding real action from the biggest emitter, rather than giving endless praise to their socialist idol.

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        • #
          el gordo

          To sum up, XR is not a cargo cult, but it definitely is a millenarian movement.

          https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/04/19/extinction-rebellion-the-new-millenarian-cult/

          20

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Climate alarmism fits every definition of a religion that I know of !
      You base everything on faith for a start because there is no proof .
      No opposing views allowed .
      Miracles are accepted and defended .
      Non believers are shunned and persecuted, need I go on Fitz .

      50

    • #
      Lance

      So, Peter, if I understand your false equivalency properly:

      It is perfectly acceptable to pay hooligans ( oops, “passionate, like minded individuals” )
      to break some bones (oops, ” educate the misguided people and speak Truth to Power” )
      and impose ideology by force ( oops, “show them the errors of their ways” )
      then that is perfectly acceptable so long as the propaganda ( oops, “right thinking facts” )
      lead to the establishment of a Marxist, Socialist, Redistributionist ( oops, “socially Just”) Society.

      Well then.

      That would mean that your position is colinear with the Nazi Brownshirts, Fascist Blackshirts, and hooded Ku Klux Klan. They did the same thing. “Educating the Sheeple” into “Right Thinking” by “Passionate” individuals.

      Imagine that. NewSpeak explains most everything. Just ask Orwell.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Hong Kong? plenty of police hurt, plenty of mainlanders bashed, or is it only ER?

        Or how about the yellow vests in france?

        Hypocritical only just covers it

        27

        • #
          AndyG55

          Yellow vest are trying to protect their incomes and farms, they ask for nothing except to be left alone.

          The “stinkies” use all of the benefits of a modern society powered by fossil fuels and want to force non-use on everybody.

          /PF = total HYPOCRISY !!

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    • #
      bobl

      Let me rewrite this for you.

      In order for the activist preaching climate change dogma to be taken seriously and not become a hypocrite they should
      - Be educated enough on the topic to have credibility
      - Not be paid to say particular things
      - Not travel on planes (or cars or other fossil fuel powered transport)
      - Not act because they saw climate Armageddon in a drug induced hallucination
      - not try to claim unrelated issues such as inclusiveness is somehow consequential to their argument.

      Plenty of hypocrites among the climate faithful For example even yourself as an advocate of Solar and Wind renewables, I’d argue that you should install a device in your switchboard that limits your electricity use to the fraction of nameplate that renewables are producing relative to their nameplate, so that you can live the consequences of what you advocate be imposed on the rest of us. It is somewhat hypocritical for you to advocate renewable energy for all of us, when you don’t live that way yourself

      Peter, I have left you a couple of relevant comments I think you might want to address on the previous thread

      50

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        I see your point bobl, only certain people, with certain attitudes are allowed to protest climate change. Are they allow to have any thoughts that have not been approved by you as well?

        To the rest of your points (including those you made yesterday).
        Again you state that you are not allowed to hold views unless you are prepared to make lifestyle changes, as if that was a viable option.
        CO2 is not a pollutant, and C4 pathway organisms (eg corn), when grown in a controlled environment would benefit from more. This is false for 2 reasons, the atmosphere is well mixed, you do not lower the level of CO2 in any appreciable amount at any time of the day. The second, C4 plants do not benefit from increased CO2 as their metabolic pathways are unable to process the extra.
        CO2 is a beneficial waste product. un ah. It and all the other crap that it spewed out of coal plants and dumped into the environment is detrimental (it is a GHG, and that is it’s least dangerous feature) is done so because the opportunity cost not to do so is better than not.
        As to the CO2 embodied in renewables, I’ve seen the claim, but yet to see any credible evidence that this is true, and to be fair, it would have to compare the lifecycle of all types of power generation on a watt for watt basis.

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        • #
          Dave

          Peter

          This is false for 2 reasons, the atmosphere is well mixed, you do not lower the level of CO2 in any appreciable amount at any time of the day. The second, C4 plants do not benefit from increased CO2 as their metabolic pathways are unable to process the extra.

          You omitted that C4 plants do much better in elevated CO2 under water shortage.
          C3 plants don’t do as well under these factors.

          The Atmosphere is well mixed and you do not lower the level of CO2 in any appreciable amount during the day?

          Wrong here Peter, any crop such as maize, corn, wheat C3 or C4 have massive decreases in CO2 atmospheric levels in period of still or no wind!

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            True.

            The variation in atmospheric CO2 concentration above and around crops over a 24 hour period is amazing.

            Nature at work.

            70

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            no wind – is that the exception that proves the rule?
            Lets try this quick quiz –
            in the plant world how many species, as a percentage, use the C4 pathway?
            In geological times with high C02, what was the percentage of ferns to the combined percentage of gymnosperms and angiosperms?

            38

            • #
              Dave

              If you don’t know that Peter
              Use Google!

              Plus wrong question, better if:
              What is the percentage of terrestrial carbon fixation V biomass of C3 & C4?

              80

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                I already know the answers, but for this point would prefer to ask the question of the audience.

                As to biomass, is this total biomass (as a proxy for carbon fixation) for the life of the plant? The problem is that most plants grow quite quickly when young, and then slow down. this is true for both C3 and C4 species.

                /asks that I google, and then poses a question which he could answer with the same method

                35

            • #
              AndyG55

              C4 and CAM developed to adapt to LOW CO2 levels.

              /PF puts foot firmly in gob, yet again.

              50

            • #
              el gordo

              Its not my area of expertise, so I’ll provide this for the general reader.

              http://www.co2science.org/subject/b/summaries/biodivc3vsc4.php

              20

        • #
          bobl

          Yes you can hold any opinion you like provided you don’t try to make anyone force costs on me due to you unsupported opinion. I don’t ask that you fund my ideas, as you force me to fund yours.

          I reserve the right to accuse you of ignoring facts for ideology if I see that, but I will generally put a reasoned argument in support of that.

          Now to the rest of what you wrote. CO2 is NOT a pollutant, please, tell us what happens if CO2 concentration was zero? I agree IF there is other stuff emitted that the other stuff ™ might not be good for us, but we are not talking about other stuff ™ we are talking about CO2

          The atmosphere is well mixed, actually OCO satellite put paid to that idea CO2 isnt distributed evenly, and this also except at localised points of emission, your lounge room can easily get to 4000 PPM if you invite the mates around, along roads get elevated if it’s calm, diffusion is not instantaneous, and CO2 is heavier than N2 or O2. If the density of planting is capable of drawing down CO2 from 400 PPM to 280 PPM between dawn and 11 AM then slowly releasing CO2 dissolved in water is going to result in uptake if the CO2 is released betweem 11AM and sunset, because of the higher local Co2 concentration. By controlling the rate of release the maximum concentration can be held at 400PPM while allowing the crop to take as much as it wants. In CO2 enhancement greenhouses growing say tomatoes, the atmosphere is isolated and not mixed with general atmosphere and you can dial up any concentration you want.

          The embodied energy claim is true, there are some engineering rules of thumb that help you work it out. For items that are materials intense (Concrete, steel, glass, Aluminium, Copper) more than 50% of the cost is energy so for a $200 200 Watt solar panel energy is more than $100 of that. For a chinese solar panel at 3c per kWh then the embodied energy is at least 3000 kWh end to end. To give that Solar panel equivalent longevity to coal you need 4 of them so around 12000 kWh for 200 Watt 50 year conventional coal equivalent lifecycle.

          In a day your 200 watt solar panel average 0.8 kWh after losses. So it takes 15000 days of production to make back 12000 kWh that’s 41 Years out of the 50 year conventional coal equivalent life span. 50/41 is a lifetime return of 21%. That’s just for the bare panel, now add in embodied energy of the inverter, batteries, wiring, mounting hardware etc.

          The return on investment is dropping dramatically every time we add complexity. Again just look at it from the point of view that 50% of the cost is energy. Now expand this to grid scale, each panel is mounted on a steel frame on a steel pipe embedded into reinforced concrete base it has motors and hardware around it to aim it at the sun. Land that used to sink CO2 is laid bare and often paved over with CO2 intense materials (concrete) so it no longer sinks any CO2 at all. Up to 30% of that energy is parasitically used by the generation company to run their operation so effective output is also reduced by 1/3. There are switchrooms, transmission lines and more cleared land for those.

          It’s clear that given the bare panel only returns 20 odd percent that these grid scale systems can’t possibly return any benefit. Even if I was wrong by 50% (IE only 25% of cost was energy) it’d still be negative, you can know this because of the cost relation (50% of the cost is energy) if the cost is double the bare panel cost then the CO2 embodied is double the bare panels embodied CO2. An equivalent nameplate solar array costs at least 20 times a coal plant by the time you allow for panel replacement, embodied energy is 20 times higher and actual output is lower because Solar is not 24/7. If I wanted the same actual production in kWh, solar costs blow to 100 times coal embodied energy is roughly 100 times.

          On the other hand the latest HELE coal tech is able to reduce CO2 of our conventional coal by 40% delivering a real return of 80%, much better than any Solar plant can possibly do, and even better if you can do something useful with the exhaust, like growing tomatoes.

          Given all this Logic dictates what solution? New Gridscale Solar or HELE conversion of existing coal plant?

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Taking your points in order.
            CO2 – Toxic at around 50,000 ppm for us, the europeans differ and mandate a much lower safe exposure level, but then, they live in mostly airtight constructions, whereas ours are quite permeable . But wait we are a carbon based lifeform on a world where carbon defines life, and we depend on the carbon cycle. We have evolved in an environment where the relative concentrations of the gases in the atmosphere have not changed for millenia. We are also a water based lifeform, and water can be toxic if ingested in high enough volumes, but we will also die if it is withheld.

            C02 and improved plant production – in this case elevation of CO2 will result in higher production, but lower overall nutritional value, so let’s call that a tie. However all organisms have adapted to the 300ppm CO2 environment, changing that without thought for the consequences is driving blind.

            I bow to your knowledge of the embodied energy equations, they look pretty solid to me. However, you did not provide the equivalent for coal including the production all the materials used in the plant (you know those turbines, etc) now the replacement costs of barings, blade damage, pipe erosion, etc etc. So in this instance, renewables are barely over break even, against ????? Let’s say that that it is not proven.

            HELE – efficiency gains are fantastic. However it must be noted that this requires high quality coal, which we have in spades, but export all of it. We use lower quality stuff which decreases the HELE efficiency, and creates more waste (pollution) to be controlled or dumped as the case may be.

            26

            • #
              AndyG55

              “but lower overall nutritional value”

              That is ANOTHER LIE based on incompetence.. !!

              Properly grown CO2 enhanced food has similar or HIGHER nutritional value.

              30

            • #
              AndyG55

              “However all organisms have adapted to the 300ppm CO2 environment”

              Yes, they are called C4 and CAM plants.

              C3 plants have NOT adapted to such LOW atmospheric CO2 values

              They stop growing at around 280ppm.

              /PF LYING yet again.

              40

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                And Andy holds on to the nonsensical post of the day with this one
                “C3 plants have NOT adapted to such LOW atmospheric CO2 values”
                Rebutted here. https://nph.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1469-8137.2010.03441.x
                And also gets second place
                Properly grown CO2 enhanced food has similar or HIGHER nutritional value.
                Rebutted here
                https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2018.00924/full

                25

              • #
                AndyG55

                Further IGNORANCE from the “former” ecologist

                C3 plants stop growing below about 280ppm

                C4 plants contain an extra CO2 processing unit that is not in C3 plant

                C4 plants are adapted to cope with lower CO2 levels

                Seem PF has forgotten any basic biology he might once have known

                Is it dementia?? or just ignorance?

                First link goes nowhere.

                Second link shows “improperly” grown.. reinforcing my comment, Thanks PF

                Go here and read up on properly conducted experiments, twerp

                http://www.co2science.org/subject/n/subject_n.php

                /PF writes NONSENSE in every post.. based totally on ignorance.

                30

              • #
                AndyG55

                lol, Second link

                eCO2 increased the concentrations of fructose, glucose, total soluble sugar, total antioxidant capacity, total phenols, total flavonoids, ascorbic acid, and calcium in the edible part of vegetables by 14.2%, 13.2%, 17.5%, 59.0%, 8.9%, 45.5%, 9.5%, and 8.2%, respectively

                So as well as INCREASED growth we get increased concentration of nutrients

                “but decreased the concentrations of protein, nitrate, magnesium, iron, and zinc by 9.5%, 18.0%, 9.2%, 16.0%, and 9.4%.”

                With growth increase of 20-30% it is still an INCREASED in these nutrients

                /PF FAILS maths yet again !!

                10

            • #
              AndyG55

              “this requires high quality coal,”

              Which Australia has in ABUNDANCE.

              It creates LESS pollution, and everything is usable.

              CO2 .. all used for plant production

              Ash, used in many construction products.


              /PF always either mis-informed or intentionally LYING. VERY DISHONEST.

              20

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                yes Andy, and as I said, we export all of it

                22

              • #
                AndyG55

                LIES again, hey PF..

                You think our coal fired power stations use imported coal ?? LOL !!!

                You are even more of a moron that I thought you were. !!

                20

              • #
                AndyG55

                “Major coal resources of New South Wales (NSW) are located in the Sydney and Gunnedah basins. The Hunter Coalfield of the Sydney Basin is the largest coal producing area in NSW. It contains significant reserves of export quality low-ash, high-energy thermal coals and low-ash soft coking coals.”

                /PF LIES or ignorance.. which is it !!

                10

            • #
              AndyG55

              “changing that without thought for the consequences is driving blind”

              Only person being WILFULLY BLIND, is you PF !!

              10

            • #
              AndyG55

              “We have evolved in an environment where the relative concentrations of the gases… blah, blah…. “

              More ignorance from PF.

              Humans regularly experience levels of 1000-2000 ppm in home and work environments

              No harm to anyone.

              “but we will also die if it is withheld. “

              Which is what plants do if you withhold atmospheric CO2, which is what the anti-CO2 cult wants to do.

              /PF really HATES plant life

              10

            • #
              bobl

              1 So you agree CO2 is like water, not a pollutant.
              2. Hardly a wash, the increasing productivity of CO2 enhanced produce feeds more people than must be reduced for nutritional value especially given the nutrition difference can be eliminated by feeding the plant properly- the result favours CO2 enhancement by a large margin. More people fed means Less starving people.
              3 Remember what I said about the cost ratio. Over the lifecycle a watt for watt replacement renewable plant costs 20 to 100 times what a Coal plant costs and the embodied energy is in the same ratio (roughly) because of this you can pretty much ignore the embodied energy of the coal plant and consider just the fuel (since the embodied energy is small compared to the fuel)

              10

          • #

            Large grid scale solar PV plant, say like the one at Colleambally. Nameplate 150MW. Lifetime power generation – 5.65TWH

            A two Unit USC plant to replace Liddell – Nameplate 2000MW. Lifetime power generation – 725TWH

            So, to deliver the same power over the same time, then at the cost of that Colleambally Solar plant of $200 Million, then you will need 130 of them, hence $26 Billion.

            But hey didn’t I hear somewhere that renewables are free power.

            Tony.

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            • #
              theRealUniverse

              Its great how a little real analysis and data can throw dirt on the renewable bandwagon. Good work T!

              20

            • #
              bobl

              That still allows solar output to be intermittent, to be coal equivalent (24/7) you need 24 hours of (pumped?) storage and another 5:1 derate making the cost a minimum of 130 Billion.

              10

          • #
            robert rosicka

            And might I add if you were so concerned for the planet Fitz why not lead by example

            00

        • #
          AndyG55

          “you do not lower the level of CO2 in any appreciable amount at any time of the day. “

          Another manifest LIE.

          Actual measured data shows that even with raised levels in the morning, around 600ppm, on a calm day those levels are sucked down to 280ppm by midday, and stay there, showing that the plants HAVE STOPPED GROWING.

          /PF either ignorant or LYING.. which is it !!

          30

    • #
      AndyG55

      Educated… If you were properly educated you would know there was nothing to protest about

      Paid… beats the dole, hey PF. I hope it was noted for the tax man.;-)

      Plane… gotta get to those protests and klimate konferences somehow, hey PF

      Drugs.. From those videos, obviously a mandatory requirement.. Hence the $400

      Rich and powerful… from the use of coal and fossil fuels.. dis-inherit yourself, stinkie. !

      Inclusive… Gotta be part of the klimate Borg, right PF.. no individual or rational thought allowed.

      /PF, dishonesty and HYPOCRISY are his thing !!

      30

    • #
      MudCrab

      Peter, if you were paying attention you would have realised that ‘according to this post’ the key point is that XR are paying people to protest.

      This is the key point. Paid to Protest.

      If they TRUELY believed they would protest for the love of the planet.

      You then rant on about the Catholic church like some deranged loon who has no real idea what they are talking about. I mean seriously. Do you honestly think Catholic priests don’t get money? How to they buy their groceries?

      The logic is childish and does not even remotely relate to the topic at hand. I am going to assume your account has been hacked.

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  • #
    pat

    14 Oct: ABC: Snowy Hydro 2.0 a costly white elephant that won’t deliver, says energy expert
    7.30 By Carrington Clarke
    “Here is a project that is likely to cost five times more than the then prime minister [Malcolm Turnbull] said it would, and whose capability is nowhere near what has been claimed of it,” the director of the Victorian Energy Policy Centre, Bruce Mountain, told 7.30…
    “Snowy Hydro 2.0 was a political get-out-of-jail card, played at the public’s expense.”…
    Mr Turnbull first announced the project with much fanfare in 2017…

    He assured the electorate it would cost $2 billion and be up and running by 2021.
    Less than a year later, that estimated cost had doubled.
    By April 2019, a contract for part of the project was signed for $5.1 billion — and that doesn’t include transmission costs, which will cost billions more…

    Energy Minister Angus Taylor refused to admit there had been a major cost blowout since the project was announced.
    “We made our investment decision after we had done a cost benefit and after we’ve done the feasibility work in December 2017. The cost came out at $3.8 billion to $4.5 billion,” he told 7.30…
    The latest Snowy Hydro estimate is that the project won’t be storing and generating energy until 2025…READ ALL
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-14/snowy-hydro-2.0-expensive-and-wont-deliver-energy-expert/11594768

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  • #
    pat

    full of support for XR from The Guardian, naturally. the party’s over:

    15 Oct: Guardian: Police ban Extinction Rebellion protests from whole of London
    City-wide Met police operation begins to clear Trafalgar Square and other protest sites
    by Damien Gayle
    The Metropolitan police issued a revised section 14 order on Monday night that said “any assembly linked to the Extinction Rebellion ‘Autumn Uprising’ … must now cease their protests within London (MPS and City of London Police Areas)” by 9pm…

    Deputy assistant commissioner Laurence Taylor said: “These conditions have been imposed due to the continued breaches of the section 14 condition previously implemented and ongoing serious disruption to the community…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/14/police-ban-extinction-rebellion-protests-from-whole-of-london

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  • #
    tom0mason

    Kool-aid! Kool-Aid!

    Get your free Kool-Aid here!

    Kool-Aid! Kool-Aid!

    FREE! Original Jonestown Kool-Aid Here!

    31

  • #
    TdeF

    In Australia, we make nothing. We are running out of water and energy. Our heavy industries, refining and smelting are closed or near enough. Smelting is on life support with our cash. Shipbuilding is farcical. As the Federal Ministers said, SA could not build a canoe. We make no cars. We make no aircraft.

    And while the Extinction people live on their phones, there is no part of a mobile phone which is made in Australia.

    All of the things we buy except food are made overseas. And the Extinction people want to stop farming, dams, forestry, transport, coal mines, iron mines, manufacturing and farming.

    Where do they think they are going to get their food, their phones, their clothes? And their luxury time to play pantomime in the city intersections while stopping everyone else from working?

    Lock them up. Community service. Take away the free money. Take away their phones and their diesel generators.

    They are not protesters. They are ignorant, self indulgent people living off a system they did not build and do not want.
    Or swap them for refugees who want to work. In fact swap some of boat people for refugees who want to work.
    Send them to East Timor to build roads for people who just need roads.

    Meanwhile we need our cheap energy back. Not money sucking windmills and solar panels. Nothing is free and certainly not wind power.

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      A declining civilisation, wrought by the enemy within, philosopher kings for a New World Order and their sheeple.

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      theRealUniverse

      Years ago I said Ausralia can ‘dig money out of the ground’ (minerals) (where as NZ has to grow it) so why isnt it? It used to, so thats what they want, to stop that too. If you look at that BHP TV add you can see hidden message that is quite anti this crap we are experiencing. Of course it is the company’s life blood.
      I feel something is greatly mismanaged in the mineral sales by successive govts. You cant always blame the ‘market’.
      Regaining cheap energy would help, yep agree dump un-renewables.

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    David Maddison

    They should have their welfare payments, which most of them will undoubtedly be getting, cut off.

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    pat

    surely it should be protesters – not protests – in the headline:

    14 Oct: Australian: Victoria climate protests face five years in prison
    by Remy Varga
    More than 40 climate activists are facing up to five years imprisonment in Victoria after a week of chaotic protests that reportedly cost the state at least $3 million.

    Victoria Police North West Metro Commander Tim Hansen said the response to Extinction Rebellion’s week of action, which threw Melbourne into chaos after protesters blocked key intersections and roads, racking up a total of 16,000 patrol hours involving officers from the public order response team, the mounted branch, highway patrol, brawler vans, search and rescue as well as logistic advisers and drones operators…

    “These type of sustained policing responses take a toll on any organisation and it’s something we always need to be mindful of,” he told reporters on Sunday.
    “I’ve heard it being discussed this week that the end justifies the means in relation to climate change. We don’t have that luxury as an organisation within Victoria Police.”…

    He said the protesters would not be charged the cost of the policing operation as they were not a commercial venture.
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/victoria-climate-protests-cost-state-3-million/news-story/69ada5f077e89c81eebd19326de4544a

    plenty of ABC PR, all pics by ABC’s Emilia Terzon, features, among others, Miriam Robinson (more later):

    13 Oct: ABC: Extinction Rebellion protests strain police resources, but they promise they will be back in April
    The organisers of a week of disruptive Extinction Rebellion protests in Melbourne claim they have started a mainstream movement, but the Government remains unmoved and police say they have cost taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars…

    (Victoria Police Commander Hansen) said police were “well and truly over it” with more than 16,000 patrol hours used to quell the protests…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-13/extinction-rebellion-protests-disrupt-melburne-cost-thousands/11598086

    the photographer:

    TWEET: Emiia Terzon, ABC
    #ExtentionRebellion wraps up in Melbourne with a “mass drowning”. No arrests of protestors so far today
    VIDEO 12secs
    ONE REPLY:
    Douglas Rodgers: I think the definition of ‘drowning’ might have changed…
    12 Oct 2019
    https://twitter.com/EmiliaTerzon/status/1183224191979360256

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      pat

      reminder – Miriam Robinson:

      KooyongClimateAction: Time to Call out the Climate Liars
      On Friday May the 31st a determined group of Kooyong campaigners stood outside Josh Frydenberg’s office to call out the climate liars, and listen to Miriam Robinson of Grey Power Climate Protectors strengthen our resolve…(PIC)
      https://www.kooyongvotesclimate.com/tell_the_truth

      28 Feb: Facebook: Extinction Rebellion – Grey Power
      Our own Miriam Robinson helping striking kids march on Josh Frydenberg’s office today. The other big kid is Oliver Yates, a former head of the Clean Energy Finance Corporation who left the Libs to run against them in Kooyong on climate change issues.
      Register here to join the #GreyPower campaign this election PIC ROBINSON AND YATES
      https://www.facebook.com/GreyPowerEarth/photos/our-own-miriam-robinson-helping-striking-kids-march-on-josh-frydenbergs-office-t/551628608654010/

      24 Apr: Lexology: Civil Disobedience Required: An Interview With Extinction Rebellion’s ***Miriam Robinson
      by Sydney Criminal Lawyers – Paul Gregoire
      As the mobilising in London – as well as in 80 other cities around the world – was about to get underway, renowned environmental and political activist George Monbiot wrote, “Only rebellion will prevent an ecological apocalypse”…
      Sydney Criminal Lawyers spoke to Extinction Rebellion Australia spokesperson ***Miriam Robinson about time running out on the ecological clock, the significance of the events that transpired in London and how the movement is mobilising in this country…

      ROBINSON: The police being overwhelmed by the numbers of people on the street was a good thing. The police need to realise that citizens are going to have to do these things in self-defence.
      I’d actually like to see the police join us, and be on our side, rather than being instruments to crack down on people trying to save everyone’s lives…
      Q: And how long has the movement been active?
      ROBINSON: London started it. They had their first actions in November last year. But, they had been planning and building up the movement for about six months before that…
      In Melbourne, we started up in November, as we saw it all happening in the UK. So, we started organising here about 5 months ago…
      https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=a5e196e0-69b2-47da-8cf0-833d5659ae7b

      21 Jun: SBS: Extinction Rebellion activists occupy four Australian cities protesting Adani
      By Charlotte Lam
      Extinction Rebellion spokeswoman ***Miriam Robinson tonight said frustrated citizens concerned about climate change had “run out of time to wait for the existing political process to work.”…
      Ms Robinson said Australia entering “emergency mode” would allow focus on a bipartisan sustained effort to address the climate crisis.

      27 Jan: Guardian: Warming world gets older, wiser, richer activists hot under the collar
      A growing number of older protesters are standing up and fighting for the environment
      by Ben Smee
      Unprecedented amounts of time, money and motivation
      ***Miriam Robinson, 58, is the spokeswoman for the Grey Power Climate Protectors. She says one of the group’s first aims is to encourage grandparents to attend the next school strike on 15 March…

      “Some of my former colleagues are profoundly shocked,” says Mary Heath, who at 53 took a redundancy from her job as a law professor at an Adelaide university to campaign…
      Heath is about to become a grandmother for the first time. She has been an activist for most of her life and always imagined devoting her retirement to helping bring about social change. Even so, the sharp turn away from a successful academic career came suddenly…
      https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/27/warming-world-gets-older-wiser-richer-activists-hot-under-the-collar

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        Greg in NZ

        It’s as if they’re following the one world order global script:

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1910/S00055/great-grandmother-to-lead-wellington-blockade.htm

        “Extinction Rebellion spokesperson Mary Rose, 80, will lead the blockade. She says decades of inaction around climate and ecological breakdown is pushing ordinary people to risk arrest”.

        Heard her interviewed on the radio a few days ago. The *dénier* radio host asked her how she travelled to/from the protests: “On a bus”. As in a diesel-powered bus? “Yes.” The irony didn’t even make a dent in her relentless ranting of repeated slogans about non-observable make-believe pixies at the bottom of the garden. Maybe she’s not familiar with that lovely, cheery, Christmas song, ‘Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer’:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgEHA9HS66w

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    pat

    read all, as The Intercept desperately tries to frame XR as “diverse” already, while complaining it isn’t:

    13 Oct: TheIntercept: Can Extinction Rebellion Build a U.S. Climate Movement Big Enough to Save the Earth?
    by Alleen Brown
    At the head of the procession, 20-year-old Ayisha Siddiqa took the megaphone. She explained how she’d come to the U.S. from a poor part of Pakistan when she was 5 years old and had lost family members as a result of frequent power outages, which are expected to increase globally as the climate crisis deepens. Attention turned to ***Richard McLachlan, a 68-year-old New Zealander, as he and another activist began reading Extinction Rebellion’s declaration of rebellion.
    “The science is clear: We are in the sixth mass extinction event, and we will face catastrophe if we do not act swiftly and robustly,” the activists said. “We, in alignment with our consciences and our reasoning, declare ourselves in rebellion against our government and the corrupted, inept institutions that threaten our future.”…

    Many observers have responded with a reaction similar to the one elicited by 16-year-old Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg: Finally, someone is truthfully confronting scientists’ apocalyptic climate forecasts with the urgency they deserve.
    Indeed, Extinction Rebellion’s ambition is no less than to save the Earth. To win, they say they need 3.5 percent of the U.S. population to participate. But whether a largely white, middle-class movement has what it takes to meet a sky-high ambition of mobilizing more than 11 million people to force sweeping climate action is an open question…

    Meanwhile, activists in Paris were met with tear gas as they barricaded themselves in a mall for 17 hours. And in Australia, Extinction Rebellion members were preparing to fight legislation designed especially for them by the Queensland parliament, making activists who possess lock-down devices subject to up to two years’ imprisonment…

    (Chelsea MacMillan, who founded the Brooklyn Center for Sacred Activism), like all Extinction Rebellion activists The Intercept interviewed, was well aware of the criticisms. She said part of the work of Extinction Rebellion U.S. is “finding the balance of using white privilege we have in the movement to stop the mess we’re in,” while also building relationships with communities of color…
    https://theintercept.com/2019/10/12/extinction-rebellion-climate-movement-direct-action/

    lol.

    ***27 Sept: NPR Morning Edition: The Gospel Of Climate Change: One Man’s Mission To Take The Message To Commuters
    by Ben James
    On a Saturday morning in early September, 68-year-old ***Richard McLachlan stands at the center of a Brooklyn-bound Q train, looking up and down the subway car. A couple of dozen riders stare at their phones or lean their heads back against the windows, their eyes closed. McLachlan clears his throat and starts shouting…
    McLachlan is meticulously shaven. The New Zealand native wears a clean, collared shirt and fine leather shoes. He hardly fits the bill for New York City desperate, yet his message is one of heartfelt urgency…

    Almost no one on this train even looks McLachlan’s way…
    Here in New York City, steeped in the subway din, McLachlan delivers a crushing litany of food shortages, forest fires, more and bigger storms…
    The riders stare at the floor or at their phones…
    A couple of weeks later, on a Tuesday night in Bushwick, Brooklyn, McLachlan teaches members of Extinction Rebellion how to give their own subway talks…
    His workshop is part writing craft, part encouragement and part reflection from a man who has a genuine knack for preaching the apocalypse…
    Aubrey Reeves Aldrich, an actor, is one of nine people in attendance…
    https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/764677356/subway-proselytizer-preaches-climate-emergency-trains-others-to-spread-their-mes

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      TdeF

      No future for them? What have these people done to build a future for themselves? Why do they want to bring down a system which has failed them when they have done nothing themselves? How did they manage to feed themselves, clothe themselves, educate themselves and why aren’t they working like everyone else? It’s so easy to criticize, to demand, to blame. What have any of these people done for anyone else? Cut off the money supply.

      In the country with the world’s highest basic salary, a shortage of workers in farms and on the land generally and a real need for hard workers, we have these dillettantes posing as concerned citizens. How dare they? It’s a bit like fleas demanding bigger, better dogs.

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        TdeF

        And with one of the highest standards of living in human history, in Australia it is outrageous that we are told we, society have failed them. They are the ones failing, not contributing and with no idea of the generations of real struggle to get to this point. Utterly indulged and arrogant and ignorant. Life isn’t fair. You cannot just demand everything. The deal is you have to contribute or you don’t eat or have a place to live, at least in most places in the world for most of history. Except for these privileged few. They need a study tour of Syria. On foot.

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    pat

    read all:

    13 Oct: Reuters: Scientists endorse mass civil disobedience to force climate action
    by Matthew Green
    LONDON – Almost 400 scientists have endorsed a civil disobedience campaign aimed at forcing governments to take rapid action to tackle climate change, warning that failure could inflict “incalculable human suffering.”
    In a joint declaration, climate scientists, physicists, biologists, engineers and others from at least 20 countries broke with the caution traditionally associated with academia to side with peaceful protesters courting arrest from Amsterdam to Melbourne.

    Wearing white laboratory coats to symbolize their research credentials, a group of about 20 of the signatories gathered on Saturday to read out the text outside London’s century-old Science Museum in the city’s upmarket Kensington district.
    “We believe that the continued governmental inaction over the climate and ecological crisis now justifies peaceful and non-violent protest and direct action, even if this goes beyond the bounds of the current law,” said ***Emily Grossman, a science broadcaster with a PhD in molecular biology. She read the declaration on behalf of the group.
    “We therefore support those who are rising up peacefully against governments around the world that are failing to act proportionately to the scale of the crisis,” she said…

    ***The declaration was coordinated by a group of scientists who support Extinction Rebellion…

    Other signatories included several scientists who contributed to the U.N.-backed Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)…
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-scientists/scientists-endorse-mass-civil-disobedience-to-force-climate-action-idUSKBN1WS01K

    BBC loves Emily:

    Youtube: 5min20sec: 8 Oct: BBC News: Emily Grossman Extinction Rebellion
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9Df3HoN9oE

    Youtube: 2min24sec: 18 Apr 2018: BBC Regional News Interview with Dr Emily Grossman about Girls and Science
    Dr Emily Grossman reporting from the International Festival of Learning at West Suffolk College, where she was giving a talk on diversity and gender stereotypes in science.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f9zhHH0KI8

    Wikipedia: Emily Grossman
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Grossman

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    Zane

    I think these organisations need to start facing lawsuits, heavy fines, and jail terms. As far as their funding goes, much no doubt comes from donations from misguided Greenie types, but perhaps some forensic accounting investigation could trace backing to more nefarious actors, from wind interests to Arabs to Wall Street to the Kremlin and anyone else who is viciously anti-coal and wants to cause public mayhem and ruin the economies of the West.

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    Environment Skeptic

    This the paid version of a burger rebellion….
    ….Hungry Jack’s launches the vegan Rebel Whopper

    https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2019/10/taste-test-hungry-jacks-plant-based-whopper-burger/

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      Environment Skeptic

      I guess marketing proves that you can still call a little rebellion a whopper

      The more rebellions the merrier i guess *sigh….

      These days, you can even get underpants from Rebel Sports.

      Everything has been covered.

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        Greg in NZ

        Who knew these XR Whoppers are now writing our snow reports:

        Mt Ruapehu, with over 3 metres’ snow base, has been closed all day due to “getting batted by Gail force winds last gust was 234kph”.

        https://www.metservice.com/skifields/whakapapa (saved a screenshot in case some ‘old white man from d’Nile’ checks & updates it)

        “The good news is that we have decided to extend some weekend skiing and boarding on the Valley T for the month of November!”.

        Woohoo!!! Talk about warming melting catastrophic changing climates. Jingle bells, jingle bells

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      AndyG55

      “Hungry Jack’s launches the vegan Rebel Whopper “

      Can only be an improvement of their meat based ones.! YUCK !!

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      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        It is difficult to not be skeptical about the environment of any plant based burger unless made personally, be it a plant or meat based burger, or if it is made by someone that is trusted, and especially not angry or underpaid.

        It is also difficult to not be skeptical about the ‘labeling environment’ …all the ingredients should preferably in big easy to read writing, preferably hand written & clearly labelled, Furthermore, these days chemical analysis is very cheap so that it is not expensive for the producer to ensure the food does not contain Glyphosate, and or anything else. Or as Forest Gump said, in part, ….”you never know what you are going to get”…

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    pat

    lol. what a great idea! Guardian doesn’t even describe Ed as Labour? clearly not worth reading or excerpting:

    12 Oct Guardian: This must be the climate crisis election
    Having a few ‘green policies’ is no longer enough. Ask yourself: what will your next MP do to save the world?
    by Ed Miliband
    (Ed Miliband is MP for Doncaster North and a former climate change secretary)
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/11/election-climate-brexit-green-policies-mp

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  • #
    MudCrab

    Related to the topic.

    Margaret Atwood, author, recently was announced joint winner of the Booker Prize for literature.

    What is the Booker Prize? Well in the words of someone who was once on the judging panel, A.L.Kennedy, they are “a pile of crooked nonsense” with the winner determined by “who knows who, who’s sleeping with who, who’s selling drugs to who, who’s married to who, whose turn it is”.

    Anyway, young Margaret is one of the 2019 aware winners, and in one of the gushing Instragram postings reporting on this news a photo of Margaret pressing the XR badge unironically into her forehead.

    There you go. Margaret Atwood, author and winner of ‘prestigious’ literary prizes, is a XR supporter.

    Make of that what you will.

    (also, what is the difference between literature and Sci-Fi/Fantasy fiction? People buy and read Sci-Fi and Fantasy!)

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    pat

    13 Oct: UK Express: Extinction Rebellion is risking public safety, says NICK FERRARI
    HOW’S your week been? If you’re fortunate you will have been one of the more than fifty-six million people in this country who don’t live in London, so have hopefully enjoyed a normal and largely uneventful time.
    By Nick Ferrari
    However, to have lived in London is to have spent a week where you’ve witnessed the ultimate proof of how the police have descended from force to farce. It was another week when the Tristrams and the Tabithas deserted the shires and spent some of their trust fund cash to join the great unwashed, unloved and underemployed to indulge in the ludicrously selfish hissy fit that was the latest Extinction rebellion protest. What do they want? Action on climate change. How will they get it?…

    These eco-wackos also demand a Citizens’ Assembly – which is breathtakingly stupid as we have one: the House of Commons. Their determination to do away with that is possibly fuelled by the perpetually poor performance of the Green Party in elections…
    This is the most two-faced protest you’ll ever see. They demand an end to fossil fuels while using polyurethane tents with nylon ropes and messaging each other with mobile phones. This is the same generation that dumps the tents in fields after music festivals…

    The police must act. Any protest must keep moving and no overnight stays on the highway should be permitted.
    Once arrested and bailed, anyone returning to the demo (as many do) must be jailed overnight. Anyone taking part who is on benefits, so unavailable for work interviews, should have benefits stopped.
    They’ll bleat and whine about a breach of civil rights, but with rights come responsibilities. And it is their irresponsible actions that will have brought this about.
    https://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/nick-ferrari/1189960/extinction-rebellion-protest-london

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      TdeF

      Every generation there is this need to protest something, to be heard, to have strong opinions. Or to declare war on your neighbours who have stolen all the fish/deer/land. I remember secondary students who openly envied the chance to protest the Vietnam war, not that I did. Jane Fonda did and Hanoi Jane is at it again. She cannot resist.

      However this is not a real protest. This is a planned attack on everyone else, to inconvenience people deliberately, again and again. So it’s not about promoting a cause. It’s anarchy, destructive, obstructive and aimed not at governments but at normal people who have jobs and needs and timetables. Let’s call them workers. And the police need to treat it for what it is, a deliberate attempt to grossly inconvenience as many workers as possible.

      The only bright spot in this is that the Climate people are being outed as irresponsible, ignorant even destructive loonies. Nasty Morris dancers. It is giving Climate activists a very bad name and a lot of Climate fence sitters will not be sitting on the fence much longer. This is not Climate concern, Climate awareness. In a century there has been nothing wrong with the weather or the sea levels so this is simply Climate Anarchy and there is nothing to protest about and no excuse for shutting down other people’s lives simply for amusement.

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    Kalm Keith

    This was sent to me by an acquaintance, cycles and the coming cold period.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IKmz7OGcyzU

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    Bill in Oz

    I find it curious how our own resident Global Warming alarmist
    Peter Fitzroy
    Has made no response on
    The fact that the ER folk are paid
    Per week for their performances..

    Similarly he has made no response
    about Ken Stewart’s investigation into the BOM’s
    Non compliant weather stations…

    Very, very curious !

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Maybe you’re implying it’s a topic too close to home?

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      • #
        Bill in Oz

        I’m implying that he has NO reply
        The evidence stacks up against him
        So instead of acknowledging that fact
        He ignores it
        And changes the subject..

        That’s why I think the mods should boot him.

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          Serp

          Cut down the tall poppy is it? For certain one of his tag team will continue the fine tradition he has established and then the agitation for banning will start afresh.

          He’s harmless and obviously derives much gratification from his prolific posting at this site and nobody’s obliged actually to read his utterances let alone respond to them –better to live and let live.

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        • #
          Kalm Keith

          There’s a strong possibility that he’s receiving some of the loot mentioned.
          £200 pw is not to be sneezed at in retirement.

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        • #
          Kalm Keith

          He’s damaging the blog. Why is he still here.

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  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    There is no logic behind the extinction rebellion retorhic.
    It’s all media attention grabbing rubbish. The media love it.
    And the morons who are/support this lot just don’t care about the truth.
    This is an orchestrated, world wide stunt in order to keep the climate change/warming lie from loosing momentum. Because it is loosing the debate and will continue to do so while this rubbish continues. The truth is begining to strike home with more and more intelligent people.
    GeoffW

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      Serp

      I take it we’ve been witness to Phase One of the XR program and governments have been caught flatfooted; it should be a simple enough legislative process to proscribe the organisation and set procedures in place to manage it before the April launch of Phase Two –well, for administrations which are committed to acting in the public interest.

      Truth is, governments don’t give a rat’s and we’re destined to cop this rubbish indefinitely; learn to enjoy it.

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      Environment Skeptic

      Perhaps there are some similarities to the occupy wall street rebellion…

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

      “Occupy Wall Street (OWS) was a protest movement that began on September 17, 2011, in “Zuccotti Park, located in New York City’s Wall Street financial district, against economic inequality.[7]

      The Canadian anti-consumerist and pro-environment group/magazine Adbusters initiated the call for a protest. The main issues raised by Occupy Wall Street were social and economic inequality, greed, corruption and the undue influence of corporations on government—particularly from the financial services sector. The OWS slogan, “We are the 99%”, refers to income and wealth inequality in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population. To achieve their goals, protesters acted on consensus-based decisions made in general assemblies which emphasized redress through direct action over the petitioning to authorities.[8][nb 1]

      The protesters were forced out of Zuccotti Park on November 15, 2011. Protesters turned their focus to occupying banks, corporate headquarters, board meetings, foreclosed homes, and college and university campuses. ” ………

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    Kalm Keith

    Pick the state we are in,

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4TYueM_mLPw

    The two cows analogies.

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    Rob

    Does this mean there is an entity the police can invoice for their costly “crowd management” and “protection” services?

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    pat

    13 Oct: Daily Mail: PETER HITCHENS: One day it will be impossible to criticise the fanatics of Extinction Rebellion. Until then, I’ll tell the truth about those irrational zealots
    By Peter Hitchens for The Mail on Sunday
    In fact, I will not be at all surprised if, in years to come, I and others face prosecution for having dared to doubt them.
    Soon we will be sitting in an impoverished, dark country, with a trashed economy, incessant power cuts and dismal standard of living, caused by their dogma
    Putting people on trial for warning against this will be one way to keep warm and occupied…

    Perhaps the most dispiriting version of it is to be seen in the painted, beatific faces of the red-robed mime-artists who are to be found on so many of the demonstrations demanding that this country commits economic suicide.
    Who can tell what is going on behind those self-satisfied, ethereal expressions? But they give these marches a strong whiff of the Age of Inquisitions, which I once thought we had escaped…

    I have yet to get one of them to respond to this simple point. We recently closed and demolished Didcot ‘A’ coal-fired power station, an efficient, reasonably modern plant with a generating capacity of about 1.44 gigawatts.

    Why? Why not at least mothball it? But no such caution is allowed in the great cause of cutting CO2 emissions.
    Look at the facts: an enormous 259 gigawatts (180 Didcots) of new coal-fired capacity are under development in China. That’s on top of the 993 gigawatts of coal-burning capacity China already possesses (690 Didcots).

    The UK’s whole electrical generation capacity, in all forms of power, is 85 gigawatts (59 Didcots). If we gave up using electricity entirely, it would make no difference at all to the impact of Chinese coal burning on the atmosphere.
    None. Not any. Zero. If we completely abolish all our fossil-fuel generation, including gas, it would likewise not matter in the slightest – except to us, our economy and our standard of living…READ ON
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7567013/PETER-HITCHENS-Ill-tell-truth-fanatics-Extinction-Rebellion.html

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    pat

    so much anti-western sentiment comes out of our universities – the same universities which are deeply invested in CAGW – you have to wonder who benefits?

    VIDEO: 45min30sec: 14 Oct: ABC Four Corners: Red Flags
    TRANSCRIPT:
    ALEX JOSKE, Analyst, Australian Strategic Policy Institute: ANU is one of the world’s leading universities for collaboration with the Chinese military. One example at ANU is that, the ANU trained a scientist who was sent here by the Chinese military as a PhD student working on artificial intelligence and specifically drone swarms, working together with ANU scientists who are receiving defence funding for the exact same research. When he went back to China, he was quickly promoted and is now head of the PLA, the Chinese military’s drone swarm programme.
    REPORTER: We found 30 collaborations between ANU and Chinese Defence universities. Papers on aerial robots and drones, research on video surveillance, and a collaboration on helping stealth fighters hide themselves while communicating with military bases…

    LINDA JAKOBSON, Director, China Matters: Australian universities, especially the G8 universities, are heavily reliant on international students generally, but especially, those from the PRC. The two main universities in Sydney, UNSW and Sydney University, it’s nearly two-thirds of international students who come from the PRC…
    REPORTER: At the University of Sydney, one quarter of all students now come from China…

    REPORTER: The University of Queensland has been at the centre of the storm over Chinese political interference on campus. On an orientation day in July, the University was the scene of an ugly confrontation between pro and anti-Beijing demonstrators…
    REPORTER: Student activist Drew Pavlou led a sit-in against Vice Chancellor Peter Hoj over the university’s close connections with the Chinese Government…

    REPORTER: There are close to 9000 Chinese students enrolled at the University of Queensland. Their fees contribute a quarter of a billion dollars a year. In the last five years, UQ received 24 million dollars from agreements with Chinese institutions and companies. It also hosts a branch of the Confucius Institute – a language and culture program run by an arm of the Chinese government called Hanban, which gives UQ up to 400 thousand dollars a year…

    REPORTER: University of Queensland Vice Chancellor Peter Hoj has forged strong links to China. In 2013 he was appointed as an unpaid senior consultant to Hanban and later became member of the council of Confucius Institute Headquarters. Professor Hoj has also received Hanban’s Outstanding Individual of the Year Award. He stood down from Hanban last year after being advised he would need to declare it under Australia’s new Foreign Interference Transparency Scheme…
    REPORTER: In July, the University of Queensland made China’s consul general in Brisbane an adjunct professor – the fifth such appointment of a Chinese diplomat. He was nominated by the director of UQ’s Confucius Institute…

    PROF. JOHN FITZGERALD, Former Head of China operations, The Ford Foundation, Beijing: One of the reasons the Australian community, government, perhaps universities should be concerned is that Australia’s science and technology priorities are being set by the Chinese government because we enter into collaborations that have really been designed to support China’s science and technology goals, not ours…

    REPORTER: China’s next major research venture in Australia is currently being developed at The University of New South Wales. The Torch Innovation Precinct is the Chinese Science Ministry’s overseas high tech research zone and will host more than 60 companies including Huawei and CETC…
    https://www.abc.net.au/4corners/red-flags/11601456

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      pat

      just realised ***CSIRO wasn’t mentioned in the Four Corners’ transcript, yet I heard it mentioned on ABC radio this morning, along with some other stuff that wasn’t in the transcript. presumably, it is all in this audio & I was wrong, thinking I was listening to an audio of Four Corners:

      AUDIO: 44min34sec: 14 Oct: ABC: Chinese Students and Scholars Association’s deep links to the embassy revealed
      Four Corners – By Mario Christodoulou, Sean Rubinsztein-Dunlop, Sashka Koloff, Lauren Day, Meghna Bali, Background Briefing
      Are Australians aiding China’s surveillance state?
      Australia’s peak Chinese student body reports to and is partly funded by the Chinese embassy, new documents reveal.
      The Chinese Students and Scholars Association (CSSA) promotes itself as an autonomous group under the guidance of the Chinese embassy and has branches at universities across Australia.
      But according to new documents obtained as part of a joint Four Corners-Background Briefing investigation, the mission of the CSSA in Canberra is to “assist the Embassy of the People’s Republic of China” while helping students and promoting exchanges…

      ***According to the CSSA ACT website, it has members in the CSIRO, Australian Defence Force Academy (ADFA), University of Canberra and ANU…
      https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-13/cssa-influence-australian-universities-documents-revealed/11587454?pfm=sm

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        pat

        this was another bit I noted this morning from the ABC Background Briefing program (both unis have in excess of 50,000 students).

        15min03sec: Salvatore Barboni, Assoc Prof at Uni of Sydney: numbers are extreme. example – Uni of Illinois has the most Chinese students of any Uni in the entire US – a litte over 5,000. Uni of Sydney has more than 15,000 – 3 times as many.

        AUDIO: 9min22sec: 21 Aug: 2GB: Alan Jones: ‘We’re not allowed to talk about it’: Uni professor speaks out about risk of Chinese students
        Professor Salvatore Barbones has written a research paper that highlights the significant financial risk caused by a reliance on international students.
        The research suggests universities rake in about $35 billion from foreign students, with the Chinese making up about 40 per cent of that market.
        Syndey Uni, UNSW and UTS are among the seven Australian universities described as having “high levels of exposu

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        theRealUniverse

        China has no reason to spy on Aus, especially thru students. If they were they dont need students to do it.

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    el gordo

    The Greens and Labor are going to call for a Climate Emergency.

    ‘The Labor caucus also resolved on Tuesday to propose its own motion declaring a climate emergency. A separate proposal has been championed by the Greens, and Labor has been mulling whether or not to support that motion, but there was a desire in the caucus for Labor to bring its own motion to parliament.’

    Guardian

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    Senex

    If XR really want to make a point and encourage CO2 free commuting at the same time, they should glue their foreheads and knees to the pavement. That way we could use their arses as bicycle racks.

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    Zumbuk

    Their XR logo is Nicked out of the latest Godzilla Movie ,King of the monsters , with a circle around it, how cliche!!

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