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Ecological Grief – when scientists think they need therapy, but what they really need is debate

Once upon a time, scientists had colleagues that brought them back to earth. Then sensible scientists were sacked and the only people left in the department were the hyperbolic dramatists. Is it any wonder that what’s left of university departments thinks they need  therapy? Every time one of them hits the panic button they all panic together.

‘Ecological grief’ grips scientists witnessing Great Barrier Reef’s decline

Barnes, who is still analysing her results, was surprised that many of the scientists whom she interviewed felt intense grief and sadness about the reef’s deterioration. Nature has also spoken to several coral-reef scientists not involved in Barnes’s study who echo those sentiments.

“I now feel much more hopeless, and there’s a deeper anxiety breaking through,” says John Pandolfi, a marine ecologist at the University of Queensland in Brisbane.

David Suggett, a coral physiologist at the University of Technology Sydney. “Nothing can prepare you for seeing it play out in real time,” he says.

Nothing can prepare you — unless of course a wiser older colleague reminds you when it all happened before. “No biggie.”

Suggett says that he finds it difficult to set his emotions aside about the reef’s condition when talking to the public. He worries that if he shows his feelings, then people will accuse him of being biased. “It’s very challenging for researchers to maintain the appearance of being objective while showing that they care about the ecosystems they’re working on,” Suggett says. He thinks a lack of support networks for scientists struggling with the emotional effects of their work could also lead to feelings of isolation.

Dear Dr Suggett — why maintain the appearance of objectivity when you could maintain objectivity instead? We can show we care about the ecosystems by studying them better — by listening to opponents, debating it freely and tossing out cherished assumptions.

Scientists don’t need a therapy group — they need a debate.

REFERENCE?

Cunsolo, A. & Ellis, N. R. Nat. Clim. Change 8, 275–281 (2018).

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Rating: 9.8/10 (80 votes cast)
Ecological Grief - when scientists think they need therapy, but what they really need is debate, 9.8 out of 10 based on 80 ratings

111 comments to Ecological Grief – when scientists think they need therapy, but what they really need is debate

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    How could there be a different result when a so called scientist’s way of knowing is the content of the mind of the scientist next to him. Where that scientist relies on the content of the mind of the scientist next to him. Go recursively through the list of like minded scientists and the last in line is depending upon the first scientist’s mind. It is an empty circular mind meld.

    There is no there, there. It is a summation of zeros. Not one of the scientist’s in that circular squad of depending upon the next scientists really exist as something definite. They are simply copies of copies of copies of copies of … endless copies.

    I would much rather be a wrong something than this. At least I have a way to discover and correct my errors. The above circular empty mind meld does not.

    280

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Their psychological grief is I suggest genuine.
      But displaced.
      In reality this grief has it’s source
      In their own awareness
      That they are not doing science
      They are doing fake science
      Based not on reality
      But ideology.
      And their salary and position and status
      Are all based on this fakery.
      Of course they feel nervous at this
      But can never be honest about the actual cause.
      Poor ‘dopey darlings’.
      Sack ‘em !
      Science must be reinstated
      As the study of reality not children’s fairy tales.

      140

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        PS : The last things
        The poor grief stricken fools need
        Is a debate
        They would be exposed for what they are
        Fakes !

        50

    • #
      glen Michel

      Maybe a new take on “in scientific circles”…

      80

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Very much it is so. And when you consider how this applies to even legitimate computer models, if more than one have contributed to the development of the model, it is very possible that there is nobody who knows how the model was written.

      60

    • #
      Hanrahan

      I have this mental picture of “climate researchers” at their puters all day reading and forwarding emails. Millions of emails fly around the world with little new or of substance.

      70

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      First they were so sure of themselves that they wanted to eliminate any contrary opinion or theory so they could be comfortable with their smug certainty There can be no debate they said, we already know all there is to know about it.

      Now, having achieved that Utopian dream of being right no matter who or anything, they find themselves unhappy. What? Is certainty not enough? That is what they wanted after all.

      My prescription is to find an expensive headshrinker and spend the rest of their careers in the company of someone who will actually listen to their complaint, soothe their sweaty brow and hold their trembling hand while they weep for whatever their favorite cause says is going to die because of climate change. Needless to say, I will not be listening.

      Emotions are only half of what god gave them by which to guide their way through life. The other half is a brain superior to any other in the world. And they have thrown it away. Let them suffer.

      110

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    One of, perhaps the greatest, challenges in life is to interact with and understand reality.

    At this moment in time Reality is hidden behind the latest fad: Eco Puritanism with all its false and misleading dogma.
    This bizarre focus on a subject so unreal has been used by the Elites to entrain the minds of millions of the faithful world wide to the benefit of the chosen few and the new world Leaders.

    As mentioned previously I see the current mess as world war three and total victory without a bullet being fired.

    We have been enslaved.

    Whenever I go away and stay in a motel the T.V. gives me an update on the world wide hysteria generated especially by U.S. based “news” programmes and opinion shows.

    The mind entrainment at work can only be described as ferocious!

    Yes folks, you tell people something enough times with enough conviction and they “believe”.

    KK

    340

    • #
      glen Michel

      Somewhere in central west NSW ,some 200 farmers have gathered seeking help from drought, floods,bushfires and cosmic cataclysm.Urgent action on Climate change from Gubbmint etc. Some declare that the drought is the worst in their memory(20 years). It should be said that the report is from the ABC.

      150

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      WWIII is indeed under way, and has been for a long time.

      In wars past they bombed the factories. This time they are conning us into shutting down our factories, shutting down our means of paying our debts, as you say without a shot being fired.

      80

  • #
    James Poulos

    It’s not the fault of Climate $cientists.

    It’s difficult for any $ocial Justice Warrior to be noticed in the $truggle to remain relevant in a world where all the great $truggles have already been fought.

    230

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      True, they perhaps above all others have been placed in a position where in the future their life’s work will be seen as a tragic journey down a black hole.

      But in the meantime they have what’s most important to them, temporary prestige and $$$$$$.

      KK

      150

    • #

      And perhaps with this ever increasing issue of victimhood, those not of a ‘minority group’ need to find their own victimhood to make them feel relevant.

      170

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Its much like the children of successful people, depending on the child many can find it difficult to measure up to the parents achievements and can go for wacky out of the box ventures trying to be different when they only have to be themselves.

      The PC culture has produced SJW’s En Masse and this was predicted years before with the rise of the mediocre, participation medals and doona days have a lot to answer for.

      190

    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      Not the fault of the so called climate scientists? They are the one’s who claim they have a totalitarian hold on the truth about climate. It is mostly their fault because as scientists they should know and do better.

      It is also significantly the fault of those who failed to check the facts and BELIEVED the total trash those scientists were selling. All because there were far too many who were and are afraid to say “The Emperor is naked” for fear of not being liked by the person next to him.

      Come on people. BE something real. Take a stand to preserve what freedom you have left and FIGHT to regain the rest of it. If you don’t and won’t, you deserve every thing you get which will not be worth a stale cheese sandwich. All will be taken from you and you won’t utter even a whimper.

      For those who join the battle, welcome and godspeed.

      230

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        “So called climate scientists”. Yes. What is a scientist? My “scientist” knows the job. But to the world at large, a scientist is somebody who has specific letters after his/her name.

        So how did they get those letters? Who issued them?

        “…the fault of those who failed to check the facts and BELIEVED the total trash…”.

        Who are to be found right up to the highest levels in our society, including in our academies.

        The BOM recently issued its third “homogenisation” of Australia’s temperature records, ACORN-SAT2. This follows two earlier attempts to sort out whatever problems are there, both of which had proven faulty.

        I can’t recall the acronym for their first attempt, but the application of proper statistical procedures to that homogenisation showed it to be absurd. Utterly absurd!

        So, what was done about it? Who was called to account for the absurdity of the first round? Nobody! The same BOM then developed a new “homogenisation” called ACORN-SAT, assuring us that this represented world’s best practice.

        That first attempt gave the clear messages that 1. The BOM was not competent to do this work, and 2. The BOM had not even checked their work to discover the absurdity. And yet they are sent back to do it all again!

        The Abbott government sought to set up an investigation into the BOM, but was prevented by Al Gore’s voice in our parliament, Clive Palmer.

        I am not a scientist. But I used to have a bit of a comprehension of numbers. And what I see is people employed to develop computer models for just about everything. People who keep ignoring the first rule of computing, GIGO. And who, right or wrong, do not want the job to ever end.

        I have never seen it mentioned that computer climate models can not be built “from the ground up”. There is no solid base to build on. Climate computer models must be reverse engineered, seeking a ‘best fit” algorithm by testing against historic data. Precision is not even a concept. But warmists don’t want to admit that. But when even the historic data are fiddled, how can it ever work? It can’t!

        Something else that they are overlooking is that even if they succeeded in inventing their artificial intelligence, which is what they are trying to do, who will oversee that AI?

        140

        • #
          David Maddison

          I thought it was Greg Hunt that stopped the BoM investigation.

          50

          • #
            Ted O'Brien.

            Abbott’s big mistake was to avoid wasting parliament’s time on measures that the senate would not pass. Presumably withholding them for an election mandate. Thus he allowed the lie that he was not performing to prevail.

            Then his mandate was usurped.

            110

        • #
          Lionell Griffith

          Who is it that certified the scientist letter givers? Answer: Government bureaucrats who certified the institution who certified the scientists letter givers. Who certified the Government bureaucrats? The elected politicians appointed them. Then we rely blindly on the certified scientists to tell us the truth. In what universe does this make any sense?

          You say “but who am I to know so I depend upon the experts.” Do you know enough to tell the difference between a true expert and a smooth talking scam artist? You say by their certification? Consider my first paragraph and be very afraid. You have been conned from the get go.

          At least learn enough about the important subjects so you can pick reliable experts. Then you might have a chance. If you don’t want to do the work, good luck. You are going to need a lot of it.

          40

          • #
            Eugene S Conlin

            Lionell, I fear you are missing the point with these people – in post science modernism they do not have to study science to become scientists – they just have to identify as one ;)

            50

            • #
              Eugene S Conlin

              … nor need they follow scientific method as long as they identify as scientists and what they do makes them feel warm and fuzzy.

              40

            • #
              Lionell Griffith

              Obviously I am NOT a Post Modernist. I won’t give a rotten fig for what people feel is true. My concern is what is true, how to know it is true, and how can I benefit from that knowledge.

              If someone is offended by that, they can stuff that offense so far up their back side, they will have to open their mouths to see it. Even then I still won’t give a rotten fig for their feelings. Their feelings are their problem and they try to make them mine. I refuse to accept that assignment. This is one way I have stopped feeding them.

              40

      • #
    • #
      Roy Hogue

      James,

      You are a master of understatement. That struggle to remain relevant has been elevated to crisis level. If I see anything it’s this, better to win a battle of words or ideas than to win a battle of achievement that would actually set you apart from others on a basis that has stood the test of time for the whole history of the human race. It’s the battle of words vs. substance. The words are winning. And they can amount to any asinine idea because nobody cares anymore. Only they are mistaken because some of us do care and if we do get the upper hand again…picture 100,000 times Donald Trump in public office.

      60

  • #

    A mate worked at a uni as a student lawyer. One day a stranger walked on to the campus, ascended to the top of a building and threw himself off it. The uni insisted on counselling everyone they could. My mate insisted that the misfortune had nothing to do with him, that there were many buildings in the vicinity and the fact that the one selected lay within the campus did not justify his being counselled. He was not against counselling those who had been involved, he was simply against the unnecessary magnification and dramatisation.

    Once grief becomes an industry with lots of “trained” people expecting to practice you will have waste and ambulance-chasing. If a coral scientist is not yet whimpering over his specimens, a therapist will make sure the tears flow. “Let it all out…let it all out…”

    Well paid people with secure jobs having anxiety and depression over marine lantana coral is especially undignified. It’s just flaming coral. In a few thousand years the reef will be dry land. Much later it will far beneath the ocean. How’s that for bleaching! If you are going to cry, cry for starving, diseased Yemenis.

    Esto vir. Be a man, warmie.

    340

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      If you examined those counsellors, you would discover that a substantial part of their client base is their fellow counsellors.

      100

      • #
        Another Ian

        Ted

        Isn’t that how they got “councelling experience” during their courses?

        60

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        If you examined those counsellors, you would discover that a substantial part of their client base is their fellow counsellors.

        Ted,

        You have that exactly right. My late first wife worked for the county social services agency for quite a while trying to keep an office full of psychologists running. She would tell you that many of them needed their own help more than the clients they served ever did.

        70

  • #
    Yonniestone

    “Climate scientists , it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

    Apologies to Charles Mackay.

    180

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    I see the attempted replacement of traditional religion e.g. Christianity with what appears to be the new State sponsored eco-religion.

    Slowly, the moral and ethical and emotional construct is being established via schools ( “churches” ) and “learned” people like climate “scientists” ( who can do no wrong – are they the new priest class? ) and reinforced via the MSM ( the religions’ information service ).

    People who have been led astray to do very bad things often wonder “how did we get here” , but if you look back over time, its a series of planned well executed steps to re-program peoples minds with what what appears to be eco-driven nhilism.

    200

    • #
      PeterS

      Part of the blame for all that rests also on the churches themselves. Many of them too have lost their way and now preach false doctrines. It can be very confusing to some but not all who seek the Truth.

      160

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Have a look at the Ten Planks of Marx’s Manifesto and match them to whats happening in Western societies and the framework for Agenda 21/2030.

      1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
      2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
      3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
      4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
      6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.
      7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
      8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
      9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.
      10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.

      110

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        A rare Saturday off (not working) for me, made the mistake of turning on our radio version of your ABC this morning and the grief and wailing and hysteria were too much for such a lovely sunny day.

        Firstly, a Year 13 student spoke of her fear and dread of the future (NZ’s own version of The Greta Syndrome) then an authoress / science journalist spoke of her “anxieties” regarding “our planet’s future in the face of potentially catastrophic climate change”. I turned the radio off before she ‘vocalised her therapy’ (while pushing her new book at the same time) and stepped out into the great outdoors with a coffee…
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday

        Yet another parroting mouthpiece of sudden stratospheric warming causing “coldest October in 20 years… frequent ground frosts… well below normal sunshine and very cold temperatures in parts of the South Island”. No wonder these scientivists have cooked their brains requiring ‘therapy’ to cope – they truly believe warming causes freezing… crack Crack CRACK!!!

        https://watchers.news/2019/09/10/sudden-stratospheric-warming-ssw-above-south-pole-to-go-down-as-the-strongest-on-record/

        120

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Note there the significance of the term “private property”.

        In our current scenario, what they are out to abolish is private management of industry. And they are close to having achieved that. And the policy platform taken by the Labor Party into the recent federal election shows that they are aware of this, but unexpectedly failed the 50% + 1 test at the election.

        Technically the term ‘private property” includes the corporate sector of the economy. But in the corporate sector the owners have no effective say in the management. That is dictated by government and unions.

        Only in the small business sector are the proprietors also the managers. Bust small business and they are home and hosed.

        These people really and truly believe that if the bosses are busted, “the workers” will be able to walk into the factories and keep them producing. With an intermittent supply of energy.

        80

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          They know that once they have abolished private management, the concept of property will become irrelevant.

          60

          • #
            Lionell Griffith

            Not quite. You will still be required to pay tax on your property and to absorb all losses from using it or not as the Government permits.

            The Government will continue to get all the goodies from your hard work that it got previously. Then claim you aren’t paying your fair share. Which as we all know is to be more than you are presently paying. At which time they will say again you aren’t paying your fair share and require still more from you.

            Eventually you go bankrupt, lose all your assets, and abandon your life’s work. Someone with connections will buy your property for a few percent of what it was worth, get a huge government loan to improve it, and then skip town to avoid paying it back. You as a hard worker will have your taxes increased so the Government gets back the money it loaned that was taken from you in the first place.

            Is this what you really signed up for? Yet isn’t this exactly the situation we are heading for? Yet we still keep on feeding them.

            70

    • #
      Roger Knights

      “are they the new priest class?”

      A lab coat is the emperor’s new clothing.

      60

  • #
    Robert Swan

    If reef scientists feel hopeless, it could be because they are hopeless.

    250

  • #
    destroyer D69

    ABC “The Drum” last night in full headless chicken little we are doomed ,its too late, the boat has sailed,etc,etc doom laden we are so depressed mode……

    170

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Their ABC are the gods of a media sheltered workshop, take away the free money and watch them starve like Stalin’s workers.

      141

    • #
      Kevin Lohse

      Those boats that have sailed keep getting trapped in polar ice that isn’t there any more. Just saying.

      80

  • #
    TdeF

    The 1970s move to send everyone to university and not the trades has produced an extraordinary number of soft scientists and no tradesmen and women. What on earth is a coral physiologist? Why do so many of these people have really weird skill sets? Professor Tim Flannery is a classic, a man who was no good at science and mathematics so he did a degree in English at a new university which took anyone. Now he is an expert in everything, including nuclear power and meteorology and computer modelling.

    There might be some good people, but without a grounding in real tertiary level science, chemistry, mathematics, physics and experimentation and rational absolute science, we find pseudo science. Then you get what English writer James Delingpole calls ‘weapons grade drivel’ in his funny piece on Time Magazine’s end of planet edition.

    Take the two essential theories, firstly that mankind has increased CO2 and that CO2 produces warming. Neither are proven and without both them everything collapses. A scientist would ask if there is any proof of either and more importantly why you could not equally reason that warming increases CO2, which is a far simpler and more obvious explanation for both.

    To a modern soft scientist, fungal ecologist or fruit bat psychiatrist, everything is true until proven wrong and then you are a fascist right wing mysogynist isl*mophobe denier for pointing it out.

    210

    • #
      TdeF

      In fact you have to wonder why the rationale for man made Global Warming is such a convoluted and improbable and unproven conjecture, until you see the $1,500,000,000,000 a year being spent by Western democracies to prevent something which is not true. That unfortunately is also the answer.

      200

    • #
      mc

      So mean of you TdeF, fruit bats need psychiatric support too, just like the rest of us, and especially now that we are experiencing a climate emergency!

      But seriously, fruit bat psychiatrist would have to bee the funniest job title I’ve ever heard.

      10 green thumbs.

      100

  • #
    robert rosicka

    It’s time the scientific community was “Ridd” of the doomed Reef rent seeking cultist shonksters .

    130

    • #
      Bill Burrows

      Reef Armageddon?? Here are some images of the fringing reefs adjoining the Keppel Islands in Keppel Bay (just north of the Tropic of Capricorn in Queensland).:
      https://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/news/fears-reef-report-has-people-jumping-to-wrong-conc/3821745/

      The accompanying comments by Alison Jones, who was awarded her PhD after studying these reefs over many years, are also quite revealing.

      And here are some comments on the health of the reefs surrounding coral cays in the Bunker Group further east:
      https://www.cfact.org/2019/07/01/coral-reef-health-defies-climate-alarmists/

      I have known these reefs since the 1950’s and have fished and snorkeled in them for 1-2 weeks each year since 2002. This October I will be spending 10 days in the Swain Reefs that are located further out to the North East – and which I have also been fortunate to regularly visit over the same time frame.

      I can only emphasise that all these “southern reefs” remain in fine fettle. Put them on your ‘bucket list’ if you get an opportunity!

      30

  • #
    Another Ian

    But if they debate and lose then won’t there be more grief?

    80

  • #
    Michael262

    As in any other field they are always debating, its called the scientific method. This is what Ridd can’t bother to do.
    The sceptics can raise doubts, but until they actually provide evidence they’ll just stay in amateur world.

    421

    • #
      robert rosicka

      So the skeptics have to provide evidence but the warmists don’t ?
      I suppose we could come up with a model , and tamper with historic temperatures then proclaim that any natural weather event that’s benign is evidence that CO2 is beneficial and drought ,floods , cyclones etc are caused by a lack of CO2 .
      But why stoop to frord when the truth is all that’s needed .

      160

    • #
      AndyG55

      Little-Mickey, You haven’t got a clue what the “scientific method” is, have you. !!

      How about YOU produce some empirical evidence for the very basis of this AGW malarkey.

      Where is your empirical scientific evidence that increased atmospheric CO2 causes warming.

      So far all we see from you is drive-by gibberish.

      Waiting for your EVIDENCE, mickey !

      130

      • #
        TdeF

        Agreed. A scientist is a sceptic. It is not up to sceptical scientists to disprove anything. It is up to the alleged scientists to prove it, beyond the shadow of a doubt. Coincidence is not proof of anything. The bleaching of the Great Barrier Reef is a good case where people say Climate Change or Global Warming without even bothering to explain how it works, perhaps CO2 heats the air which heats the water which selects the Reef somehow. It is outrageous that this is called science, without proof. Having your friends agree with you at James Cook University is not proof of anything. That’s a pub pier group.

        150

    • #
      AndyG55

      “This is what Ridd can’t bother to do.”

      You mean Peter Ridd, who just got awarded $1.2 MILLION by the court.

      170

      • #
        TdeF

        Dr. Ridd was awarded only his loss of income from being unfairly fired for telling the truth, that much of the so called science was unverifiable, unreproducible and unsafe. It is clear that without his unexpected and brilliant crowd funding and the IPA in particular, he would have just been wiped out, ruined, unemployable and devastated. What sort of person sets out to do that to someone else?

        He also implied that there was considerable bias and a non science agenda, that photographs for example were obviously chosen to give a wrong picture. Then he was assaulted in every way but physically. He was not even allowed to discuss the situation with his wife, his emails were read for evidence and they trampled on his agreed right to free speech and this in his employment contract. This is all proven in a court. It was reprehensible conduct by the University.

        What is really annoying is that Jame Cook University has not fired those responsible, but Peter Ridd remains fired. In the end they simply paid him out as well as wrecking his professional and private life and that cost at least another million of our money. Now they are considering another million or two in appealing their disgraceful conduct.

        The board and the vindictive businesswoman who is Vice Chancellor have no intention of bearing any responsibility for their illegal actions.
        In modern capitalist universities, it’s all about the money not science and vice chancellors are on an amazing $1,000,000 a year. So in the new huge university business, Dr. Peter Ridd is just roadkill.

        140

        • #
          TdeF

          I also need to add that he was clearly fired for what he said, nothing more. Not his job performance of years of hard work or dedication to his subject and his students and his professional standards.

          But what he said is not being examined by the court and certainly not by University as far as we know. So it was a Thomas Becket scale hit job on a troublesome whistleblower and it worked, at least initially. He was not expected to survive. What happened was totally unexpected by the university administration where that he raised funding from the public and fought back in court and succeeded. A very large number of Australians thought what was done to him was very wrong and they were prepared to support him and with their own money against the unlimited funding of a public body with taxpayer funds for a wrong purpose.

          Now an honest employer would be embarrassed, racked by guilt and determined to get to the bottom of this dirty scandal and find the truth both on the administration and what passes for science. That’s not happening. The government, custodian of our money should be asking questions too. That’s not happening.

          The only reason they would not appeal, wasting more millions of our money is that it would drag the reputation of the University even lower, which could affect future incomes. How callous can anyone be? You have to conclude Reef science is all about the money and its a lot of money. $444 Million alone from the Malcolm Turnbull’s last magnanimous gift to Lucy’s friends without even an application, to ‘save’ the reef. Somehow, not mentioned.

          120

        • #
          Michael262

          Tdeaf

          Ridd has disproved nothing, he was dismissed for improper conduct, nothing to do with science.
          Also, “implying” things is no substitute for evidence.

          29

          • #
            TdeF

            No. He was not.

            He was dismissed for what was alleged was improper conduct, uncollegial conduct and the judge found that was illegal under the employment agreement.

            He only said what he truly thought from his position as head of Physics and if you believe that was improper, you live in a different world.
            The judge found that having an opinion and expressing it were not improper conduct as defined and that there were no valid grounds presented for his dismissal. He was dismissed illegally, improperly, without adequate remunation and his career terminated and future destroyed. That is a high price to pay for saying what you believe to be true and he was in a position where not only was he expected to know what was true, he was the right person to say it. It was his duty.

            130

            • #
              TdeF

              And the reasons given by the University despite $600,000 of our dollars in expense on lawyers, were found to be wrong. The university lost every single point. There was no improper conduct. And they have yet to address what he said.

              110

          • #
            AndyG55

            “Also, “implying” things is no substitute for evidence.”

            Yet there you are.. with ZERO EVIDENCE!!

            Poor mickey !!

            Dr Ridd did actually show quite startling evidence of scientific mal-practice by a couple of the GBR worriers.

            Same fish in multiple disguises and sizes, and other anti-science junk.

            The scientific mal-practice was certainly NOT by Dr Ridd.

            He did what he was honour bound to do, and called out the bad-science as he saw it.

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      Phoenix44

      Wow you are simply delusional. Debating with people who think exactly like you is not debate. It has many names these days, but all mean pointless. Ridd was prevented from entering the debate because nobody wanted to hear his point of view.

      As for debate being the scientific method, I genuinely despair at your ignorance combined with your extraordinary arrogance based on knowing nothing.

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    Ross

    Slightly off topic. I came across the video on an NZ blog.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=WuwvG0cobN8

    One of the comments on it jumps to a reasonable conclusion — that many media outlets receive large amounts of money from the climate change machine to influence public and political thinking. In NZ the Stuff website, which is the online newspaper version of the local Fairfax newspapers has been churning out articles everyday for the past year on Climate Change and they even have a note at the bottom of them saying the paper accepts the science is settled etc etc. They usually do not allow comments now (too many readers were fighting back).
    So it seems with what Trudeau is doing and I think the NZ Govt has done something similar, on a much smaller scale, we are moving into very dangerous territory.

    NB. Similarly it is widely known the EU gives significant funding to the BBC.

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    • #
      Greg in NZ

      But – they’re going to teach NZ kids something called ‘history’, in particular New Zealand hish-tree, so that’ll fix it. As for that strato-warmy SSW sumpthink, snow warnings to 800 m with 2 to 5 cm on Arthur’s Pass tonight. Talk about climate / action / now!

      https://www.metservice.com/warnings/road-snowfall-warnings

      Scientivists’ Stratospheric Warming (SSW) causes Frigid Freezing Snowfall (FFS!) or whatever.

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    pat

    The Wire is a DAILY “current affairs” prog which is carried by community radio stations across Australia, including the recently-changed-scheduled 4RPH (Radio for the Print Handicapped) in Brisbane. veteran ABC guy, Spencer Howson, is on its Board.

    Wikipedia: He was the host of Breakfast on 612 ABC Brisbane and when he resigned he had worked for the ABC for 25 years…
    Spencer’s first radio experience was at Brisbane community station 4RPH, part of the Australia-wide Radio Print Handicapped Network, from 1990 to 1993. In 1991, at the age of 19, Spencer was elected Vice President of the 4RPH board of directors. After an absence of 26 years, he returned to the 4RPH board in February 2019.

    About: The Wire
    The Wire is a daily current affairs program, broadcast exclusively on Community and Indigenous radio stations around Australia…More than 5 million people across Australia can tune into any weekday…
    Produced with the assistance of the Department of Communications and the Arts via the Community Broadcasting Foundation…

    Team: The Wire
    Producers: (at top) Annie Hastwell
    Annie Hastwell is a founding producer and Adelaide presenter of The Wire. She is a former ABC Radio presenter and producer, in Darwin and Adelaide, and now freelance radio features producer for ABC Radio National and Monocle24 in the UK. She also works as consultant journalist to the Australian Science Media Centre, and has written regularly for magazines and ABC Science Online.
    Annie developed UniSA’s inaugural Online Journalism course in 2001 and has lectured in journalism and media at both the University of South Australia and Adelaide University…

    HOWEVER, ALL THIS WEEK, 4RPH – WHICH IS ALSO CARRIED BY iHEART RADIO (FORMERLY CLEAR CHANNEL) WORLDWIDE – AND PRESUMABLY OTHER COMMUNITY STATIONS AROUND AUSTRALIA – HAVE BEEN PLAYING THIS OLD PROGRAM MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY, INCLUDING LAST NITE AT MIDNIGHT PLUS EARLY THIS MORNING, FEVERISHLY PROMOTING THE XR MELBOURNE PROTESTS PLANNED FOR TODAY.

    XR’s COCO: World Bank says we’re headed for 5 degrees of warming, the planet can only sustain 1 billion people; at 4, we have to lose 7 million people. XR has a mandate to tell the truth and ACT AS IF THE TRUTH IS REAL…and work with media and businesses to project that emergency into the public.

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    • #
      pat

      yuk. comment went thru before I finished:

      AUDIO: 4min55sec: 9 Sept: The Wire Radio: Extinction Rebellion Disrupts Princes Bridge
      Produced by Benjamin Herder
      Featured in story:
      Violet Maree Coco – Member of Extinction Rebellion
      The event is expected to disrupt travelers through Melbourne and cause a commotion in the leadup to the group’s Spring Rebellion, a national event occurring on October 7th that promises to bring continuous disruption all over Australia to draw awareness to the global issue of climate change. ***Is this protest a bridge too far?
      Violet Maree Coco is a spokesperson for the group and was reached out to for comment…
      http://thewire.org.au/story/extinction-rebellion-disrupts-princes-bridge/

      ***summary includes: “Is this protest a bridge too far?” but that is not the purpose of what is entirely PR for XR and their protest in Melbourne this weekend.

      btw 4RPH has been regularly promo-ing the program with an audio clip of COCO saying ” XR has a mandate to tell the truth and ACT AS IF THE TRUTH IS REAL”.

      Princes Bridge closure: climate protesters vow to shut down …
      Herald Sun – 4 hours ago
      Thousands of tourists, sightseers and shoppers tipped to hit the CBD today could be in for a major headache..There might not be a footy game in town today but that won’t stop thousands of shoppers and tourists hitting the city but they could be in for a headache after protesters vowed to shut down a major tourist spot from midday…

      12 Sept: GreenLeft: Extinction Rebellion flourishes in Australia
      by Jacob Andrewartha
      (Jacob Andrewartha is a climate activist involved in XR Moreland in Melbourne)
      The re-election of Scott Morrison led to large demonstrations in major cities, with the biggest rally in Melbourne attracting more than 1000 people…
      My local group has planning meetings of more than 40 and a mailing list of more than 500 names…
      XR has also played the role of opening activist spaces in remote areas, with active branches in areas such as Bairnsdale in East Gippsland, Victoria and the Blue Mountains in New South Wales…
      XR activists across Australia are now building and organising a global week of action beginning on October 7, which promises to be a huge display of civil disobedience. Actions will be held in local areas and campuses and introductory discussions will bring new people into the movement.
      https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/extinction-rebellion-flourishes-australia

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  • #
    Zane

    The World Bank? Sounds like the sort of place a globalist might hang out at. Most bankers know nothing about climate or science. So perhaps they should just shut the heck up.

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    David Maddison

    What actual scientific evidence, if any, is there that the Reef is actually deteriorating?

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    Travis T. Jones

    I’ll smoke some of what he is smoking …

    Shane Warne urges cricket to be proactive about climate crisis dangers

    ” … how the rising temperatures affect the way grass grows, was scary.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/13/shane-warne-cricket-climate-crisis-dangers

    Stick to spinning balls, Warnie.

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “https://nypost.com/2016/06/09/science-says-liberal-beliefs-are-linked-to-pyschotic-traits/

    Lol, scientists got it completely wrong. I know right.

    “The American Journal of Political Science published a correction this year saying that the 2012 paper has “an error” — and that liberal political beliefs, not conservative ones, are actually linked to psychoticism.

    “The interpretation of the coding of the political attitude items in the descriptive and preliminary analyses portion of the manuscript was exactly “reversed,” the journal said in the startling correction.’

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2019/09/conservatives-are-much-nicer-people.html#comment-6a0177444b0c2e970d0240a4acbe5e200d

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Imagine that you are studying cancer, and you learn that your child has contracted a rare cancer, almost related to your studies. What would you do? Would a reef scientist feel any different?
    The whole point of the scientific method is to systematically remove bias, but that removal that is from the experiment, or the observation, the feelings of the scientist have nothing to do with it. For example, Darwin’s religious upbringing did not stop the rigorous science in his famous publications

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “Imagine”…

      … that is all you are capable of doing.

      Evidence of anything .. is not even on your horizon.

      “The whole point of the scientific method is to systematically remove bias”

      So you finally admit that “climate science™” doesn’t use the “scientific method”.

      Ok we knew that.. We have been telling you that for ages.

      It is RIFE with manic deep-seated bias and group-think.

      And lack even the most basic tenets of following “the scientific method”..

      and would have collapsed ages ago if the scientific method was actually followed.

      Heck, even a AGW guru like you (lol) can’t even provide any evidence for the very basis of the whole farce/frord.

      You are bereft of anything resembling actual science.

      .. and CLUELESS about how the “scientific method” should actually work.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        https://theconversation.com/why-carbon-dioxide-has-such-outsized-influence-on-earths-climate-123064

        This is way above what I would expect, from your comments over the last 6 months, your ability to comprehend, but have a go anyway

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        • #
          AndyG55

          So funny,

          that you STILL don’t comprehend that everything on that page is just CONjecture.

          There is NOT ONE BIT OF EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.

          It starts with a straight out LIE

          “And human activities are responsible for just 32% of that” [400ppm] BS. !!!

          And then goes on with the idiotic nonsense of a “blanket”.. Its straight AGW comedy. !!

          You really are just a gullible regurgitator of garbage science, aren’t you PF !!

          Are you REALLY SO LACKING in self-thought and scientific understanding as to be taken in by a page of baseless anti-science rhetoric???

          Are you REALLY that DUMB !

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Since you have only hectoring, and no other proof, I will say that I’m sorry for posting something which is too hard for you

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            • #
              AndyG55

              So pathetic PF.

              You can’t even see baseless non-science rhetoric when you post a link to it.

              Come on brain-washed greta-wannabee… point to the empirical evidence in that regurgitation of propaganda pap that shows CO2 causes warming.

              No, not some vague hand-waving by a scientific illiterate,

              No, not some model based farce.

              No, not some coincidental correlation that holds only for a few decades.

              No, not some provable wrong scientific conjecture.

              ACTUAL EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.

              None there.. and I’m guessing you KNOW that.

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            • #
              AndyG55

              Still waiting, PF.?

              Can you even read your own link ?

              Do you have enough functional mind left to comprehend that there is absolutely NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE in the whole regurgitate mantra diatribe you linked to ?

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        • #
          AndyG55

          The more I read this guys NONSENSE, the funnier it gets


          “heat trapping gas”
          LOL.. no, CO2 does not trap heat.

          “Ice cores from over the past million years have shown ” that when CO2 is at its peak, the climate is starting to cool.

          “changes in carbon dioxide have driven past temperature changes” BS, there is zero evidence of that !!!!

          The guys who actually work with CO2 in lasers etc think the whole CO2 warming thing is a joke.

          “quantify how much infrared radiation is retained in the atmosphere”
          NONE, the OLWIR matches the atmospheric temperature almost exactly.
          https://i.postimg.cc/QdXnDknT/CERESvUAH.png

          And he uses the erroneous and farcical Trenberth 2D non-rotating flat Earth model.. HILARIOUS. !!!

          I reckon this guy should try actually studying some “science” rather than “environmental non-science”.

          As it is, his post is a monumental JOKE..

          no-wonder you were sucked in by it. !

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        • #
          AndyG55

          Just so you know, PF,

          The CONversation is a propaganda site aiming at persuading gullible low-education monkeys like you.

          You are a prime target for brain-washing, accepting anything AGW with banal dumb worship, and it seems to now take up all your feeble mind is capable of absorbing.

          So sad to see such a feeble un-thinking, un-questioning mind as yours, PF.

          So easily led with nonsense and garbage science.

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        • #
          robert rosicka

          I’m just wondering if he bothered to read the link ? Obviously Fitz you haven’t yet again you cut and paste some alarmist drivel without even reading it first because if you had you would have seen the multitude of errors and I only read the first few lines .
          The best one was there is a gas in the atmosphere more abundant than water vapour that’s causing the climate grief .

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          • #
            AndyG55

            The whole link is a load of FARCICAL non-science nonsense.

            All the fallacies of the AGW meme rolled into one idiotic little rant.

            The lowest level of propaganda, aimed at the already brain-dead. ie PF !!

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “Imagine that you are studying cancer”

      If a doctor had the same ZERO diagnosis and prediction record as so-called “climate scientists”, they would be dis-barred and never allowed to work in that field again.

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  • #
    pat

    the writer of Jo’s Nature article:

    Gemma Conroy
    I’m a freelance science journalist, model and musician based in Sydney, Australia.
    I have published stories at Scientific American, New Scientist, Smithsonian, Popular Science, ScienceAlert, Audubon, Hakai Magazine, Nature Index, Australian Geographic, Cosmos, and other outlets. I cover all things science, from quantum entanglement to giant tube worms. I hold a Bachelor of Science (Biology) from Macquarie University.
    As a model, I have appeared in campaigns for Vodafone Australia, Affinage, MAH Collection, and Synergy Percussion…
    I show up in weird places.
    http://gemmaconroy.com/

    Gemma spoke to Emma:

    a heart-broken Emma Camp over Seychelles reef bleaching, from 3min25sec:

    4min02sec: 11 Oct 2016: ABC Catalyst: Extended Interview with Dr Emma Camp, marine bio-geochemist and research associate at The University of Technology
    https://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/extended-interview-with-dr-emma-camp-marine-bio-geochemist-and-r/11016904

    PICS/AUDIO/VIDEO: Updated 13 Sept: RFI: Seychelles, blazing a trail in marine conservation
    By Zeenat Hansrod
    Shallow coral reefs around the globe are dying through bleaching because the sea is getting warmer. However, in Seychelles, the scientists did not find dying coral in the locations they explored.
    “There is no evidence of this bleaching, even currently or in the past. This is very important for us to understand why there are really healthy corals and also to monitor and to protect them over time,” (Dr Lucy Woodall, the principal scientist at Nekton) says…
    http://en.rfi.fr/africa/20190911-seychelles-trailblazer-marine-conservation-climate-change-indian-ocean-biodiversity

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    pat

    ***Michele Barnes from Jo’s Nature article by Gemma:

    27 May: Forbes: Rival Fishers That Cooperate May Ultimately Catch More (And Bigger) Fish
    by Priya Shukla (currently a PhD student at the University of California, Davis)
    “In places where social-ecological network closure isn’t happening– in other words, where fishers using the same resource aren’t in communication … building communicative ties between these fishers, [the authors] argue, can help promote those pro-social, cooperative, ecosystem-supporting behaviors,” says (Eliza Oldach, a PhD student at University of California, Davis…who was not involved in this work)…

    For this research, led by Dr. ***Michele Barnes, a Senior Social Science Research Fellow at the ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies (James Cook University) in Australia, the scientists gathered data from five coral reef fishing communities in Kenya. They combined interviews with 648 fishers, visual censuses of coral reef condition, and fisheries landings data to understand how the reefs’ ecological condition was linked with the social network that exists among fishers…

    The researchers found significantly more fish and higher biodiversity in the hunting grounds near three of the five communities. These were sites where competing fishers communicated more openly about where and how they fish…
    “They had less variation in their vision of the resource and had developed stronger commitments toward managing it,” says Barnes…

    “It gives us a pretty strong road map,” says Jack Kittinger, a researcher with the nonprofit ***Conservation International’s Center for Oceans and a study ***coauthor…
    Malin Pinsky, an ecologist at Rutgers University in New Jersey who was not involved in the study, thinks that this research approach can be scaled to larger and more complex networks involving people and the environment. “It plays out in communities in Kenya,” says Pinsky, “and it plays out between countries on a global stage.” It may also become more relevant as the effects of climate change become starker for coastal communities. “Cooperation is getting much more difficult now that species are on the move, especially as they cross political boundaries,” he adds.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/priyashukla/2019/05/27/rival-fishers-that-cooperate-may-ultimately-catch-more-and-bigger-fish/#3e8068ed2052

    principals, Sanjayan & Seligmann were both previously with Nature Conservancy:

    ***Wikipedia: Conservation International (CI) is an American nonprofit environmental organization headquartered in Arlington, Virginia…The organization employs more than 1,000 people and works with more than 2,000 partners in 30 countries…
    The organization has been active in United Nations discussions on issues such as climate change and biodiversity, and its scientists present at international conferences and workshops…
    CI has been criticized for links to companies such as BP, Cargill, Chevron, Monsanto and Shell…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_International

    the Forbes’ article writer, Priya Shukla, and Michele Barnes are both on this list; more than 100 results for Australia when I searched the list, but can’t be bothered to go through them all:

    500 Women Scientists
    In response to the anti-knowledge and anti-science and sexist sentiments expressed repeatedly during the US presidential campaign in 2016 and the shocking election of one of the most anti-women and anti-science candidates in modern election history, five women scientists drafted an open letter re-affirming their commitment to build a more inclusive society and scientific enterprise. Read the pled at 500womenscientists.org
    signatories include:
    ***Priya Shukla, Bodega Marine Laboratory, UC Davis, United States of America
    ***Michele Barnes, University of Hawaii, USA
    https://500womenscientists.org/signatories-1

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  • #
    pat

    Suggett from Jo’s Nature article, plus Terry Hughes. they drag these stories out from time to time:

    10 Apr 2017: Guardian: Great Barrier Reef at ‘terminal stage’: scientists despair at latest coral bleaching data
    ‘Last year was bad enough, this is a disaster,’ says one expert as Australia Research Council finds fresh damage across 8,000km
    ‘Australia’s politicians have betrayed the reef and only the people can save it’
    by Christopher Knaus and Nick Evershed
    VIDEO: 1min04sec (a miserable Terry Hughes, Director ARC Centre of Excellence)
    The University of Technology Sydney’s lead reef researcher, marine biologist David Suggett, said that to properly recover, affected reefs needed to be connected to those left untouched by bleaching…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/10/great-barrier-reef-terminal-stage-australia-scientists-despair-latest-coral-bleaching-data

    Pandolfi from Jo’s Nature article – video expired:

    VIDEO EXPIRED: 31 May 2016: ABC: Scientists say Great Barrier Reef bleaching ‘as bad as we’ve ever seen’
    Dr John Pandolfi from the ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies, explains the latest report on bleaching, which has found 50 per-cent of the northern parts of the Great Barrier Reef are dying…

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    • #
      Bushkid

      An interesting snippet from Dr Peter Ridd’s addresses here in CQ last week is that the “93% bleached or dead” figure is based upon a survey that listed a reef as bleached if there was even the smallest amount of coral on it bleached or dead.

      That led to the figure of there being some coral death or bleaching on 93% of the “reefs“, which in the strictest terms of the survey was accurate.

      This was, naturally and to fit the CAGW narrative, extrapolated by the media to mean that “93% of the entire GBR was dead or bleached.”

      A very convenient “finding”, and subsequent publicity, for those who are true CAGW believers, or even merely riding the attached gravy train.

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  • #
    george1st:)

    These ‘scientists’ have become part of the lowest common denominator .
    The question is ‘how low can you go ? ‘

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  • #
    Bushkid

    Here on the Agforce CQ page is a video of Dr Peter Ridd addressing a group of primary producers at Capella last week. Dr Ridd also spoke at Moura, Biloela and Gracemere. Unfortunately I was unable to attend to hear him in person.

    The take home message is that the peer reviewed “science” upon which the Queensland government is basing its stifling laws and regulations regarding rural industries and their supposed effect on the Great Barrier Reef is totally flawed.

    Even in the first 10-15 minutes of Dr Ridds address, you will hear of the most ridiculous errors. The question I have is: How many of those errors (which have, by the way, remained uncorrected) are merely carelessness and how many are deliberately snuck in to push the CAGW point? Also, the very selective use of imagery post the Townsville/Burdekin River floods last summer.

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    Bushkid

    Looks like the link didn’t work.

    Go to the AgForce CQ facebook page, to the video posted Sept 12 at 11:53am

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    Tel

    It’s very challenging for researchers to maintain the appearance of being objective while showing that they care about the ecosystems they’re working on.

    This would make more sense if the person saying it was a Hollywood actor who has been given the job of playing a “scientist” part in a movie.

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