JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Wet Dream of climate dictators: Skeptics exiled to convict camps on Antarctic Islands

Tony Thomas has unearthed a ten year old document that reads like a wet dream for mini-climate dictators. It envisages, by 2028, that the first climate skeptics will be convicted of denying the existence of climate change and exiled to three penal colonies in, wait for it, Kerguelen Island, South Georgia and New Zealand’s South Island. Magically, these are “International convict settlements.” So it’s globalist prisons for the deplorables who say unpermitted things, because they are so bad, we wouldn’t want them mixing with normal criminals back home who believe in climate change but rort the carbon markets.

Luckily their fantasy fiction is even less accurate than climate models. By 2030 they are tipping Africa as an economic powerhouse:

2030 … the global economy today is less dominated by the big three of China, India and the US. Instead, economic blocs such as the African Union, the Latin American Trade Council and the Alliance of Turkic States have emerged as powerful players on the scene.

As Tony Thomas points out they also estimated oil would rise from $150 in 2008 to $400 by 2022. So far it has risen all the way to $60. They also predicted a global depression in 2009-18. Instead we got “Dow Record highs “.  I guess they didn’t see Donald Trump coming either.

And by 2020 they predict that not only will there be no snow in the Northern Hemisphere, there will be “No more Winter.” Though I expect Canadians and Americans are disappointed to know that five feet of snow can still fall in a New Year “spring”.

 

Forum for the Future

Forum for the Future

This dream is so wet it should come with flood warnings:

“In most cases this [emissions control] has happened gradually, ratcheting up over time, with citizens surrendering control of their lives piecemeal rather than all at once, as trading regimes, international law, lifestyles and business have responded to the growing environmental crisis.

Expensive, state-funded information campaigns reinforce the need for changes to lifestyles and aim to keep the mandate for state intervention strong. Inevitably parallels are drawn between this and the authoritarian state propaganda of the twentieth century.

“‘Climate crime’ is a social faux pas everywhere, but in some countries it is a crime to publicly question the existence of anthropogenic climate change or to propose actions that could in some way contribute to climate change.

“It is very rare to come across dissenting voices with any real power, but resistance to overly strong state intervention is occasionally violent. The media in some countries has been permitted to discuss …

The climate futures fantasy would also look like manna for simple sheeple who ache to get off the treadmill, grow kale, and tye-dye hemp shirts, but don’t have the balls to go do it unless everyone is forced to join them.

As loopy as this sounds, look at the list of supporters?

Commenter — Manfred posts

Go to Wikipedia and download the Forum for the Future
Report and financial statements for the year ended 31 December 2014.
Take a look at the long line up of virtue signalling, pecksniffian actors ….

Grant funders and major donors
Benindi Fund
C&A Foundation
Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation Economic Development Board Singapore The Esmée Fairbairn Foundation
The European Commission
The Sainsbury Family Charitable Trusts The Shell Foundation
Pioneer partners and US founder partners
Bupa
The Crown Estate Ecover Belgium NV Ingersoll Rand Kimberly-Clark Europe Kingfisher
Marks & Spencer
O2
Sky
Target Corporation TUI Travel
Unilever
Network partners: worldwide
3M United Kingdom Aggregate Industries Aimia
Air New Zealand AkzoNobel NV Alliance Boots
Arriva
Associated British Foods
Aviva Investors
Capgemini
Carillion
Cathay Pacific
Certis Europe
The China Navigation Company Colep

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Wet Dream of climate dictators: Skeptics exiled to convict camps on Antarctic Islands, 9.6 out of 10 based on 81 ratings

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202 comments to Wet Dream of climate dictators: Skeptics exiled to convict camps on Antarctic Islands

  • #
    Reed Coray

    It never ceases to amaze me just how stupid some people are. The only prediction/hope they got right or have a snowball’s chance in he11 of getting right is that 2018 would eventually arrive. BTW Jo, I wish you hadn’t associated such stupid hopes/predictions with a “wet dream”–it gives wet dreams a bad name.

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Could we see the same Socialist “justice” for all who tell the truth about climate “science”?
      This article seems to suggest it could.

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-10/russian-historian-who-exposed-stalins-crimes-faces-enforced/9316394

      “A Russian historian whose exposure of Soviet leader Josef Stalin’s crimes angered state officials is due to begin enforced psychiatric testing this week amid fears he will be falsely declared insane.

      Yuri Dmitriev, 61, is on trial in north-west Russia on charges brought by state prosecutors of involving his adopted daughter, then 11, in child pornography, of illegally possessing “the main elements of” a firearm and of depravity involving a minor.

      Some of Russia’s leading cultural figures say Mr Dmitriev was framed because his focus on Stalin’s crimes — he found a mass grave with up to 9,000 bodies dating from the Soviet dictator’s Great Terror in the 1930s — conflicts with the latter-day Kremlin narrative that Russia must not be ashamed of its past.

      The narrative has taken on added importance ahead of a March presidential election, with polls showing incumbent Vladimir Putin, who uses his country’s World War II victory when Stalin was in charge to bolster national pride, is on track to win.”

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      • #
        Ceetee

        We do seem to be following the old Soviet model. Anyone else notice the precipitous rise in catastrophic climate event reporting in the msm lately? In direct proportion to the rise of TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) The toddlers are running the preschool.

        50

      • #
        rapscallion

        “conflicts with the latter-day Kremlin narrative that Russia must not be ashamed of its past”

        Indeed. Russia has a great deal to be ashamed of, murdering far more than the Nazis ever did. They continue to get away with it because unlike the Nazis they weren’t brought to trial and convicted when their regime fell.

        30

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Lest we forget, the infamous 10:10 snuff videos made by climate denier deniers…..

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS5CH-Xc0co

      RT gets it right:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAkfEX0sqAI

      80

    • #
      Geoff

      According to Stephen Hawking we are all going to go the way of Venus in regards to Global Warming. This is a person who lives on the taxes of everyone else. The real issue is access to “free” money from the US Federal Reserve has been turned off.

      The real world is now biting the world of the rent seeker. Trump is squeezing their money supply. The United States economy is starting to boom. Regulations have been cut in half. We are going to get a lesson in capitalism.

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      • #
        William

        I don’t agree with Stephen Hawking on climate change but he doesn’t live on taxes – other than perhaps a Cambridge professorship. He relies on money from appearances and books to support his equipment and care. And he is a ruthless negotiator for appearance fees!

        50

        • #
          Geoff

          Hawking has a right to verbalize an opinion. It does not make it a proof. I have no doubt he gets funds outside the university. The problem I see is the lack of responsibility for global warming promotion. Diversion of funding on problems that are minor removes funds from basic government services.

          By all means use his own money on the CO2 crusade. However, don’t provide opinions to politicians who only want subjects to save us all so they can get re-elected.

          Hawking has enough nous to prove on an A4 sheet of paper why human CO2 caused warming is not a problem.

          So why does he not do those calculations?

          90

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            So why does he not do those calculations?

            Integrity is a rare commodity for those who rely on their profile to feed their ego.

            And their bank accounts.

            40

        • #
    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Reed Coray:

      They aren’t really stupid, merely gullible. They’ve been taken in by the Global Warming scam as have most of their limited social circle. The only TV they view (or will admit to viewing) is the ABC and SBS, and they read The Guardian or The SMH. Everything reinforces their delusion so they started posturing about how committed they are to “the cause”. Slowly they are seeing no advance in “the cause” rather the reverse. Worse, more and more things are happening challenging their views. Rather than admit they were wrong because of a fear of ridicule, they double up on their predictions, without really thinking about it.
      Spetzer86 (comment 3) shows them up as not really believing what they say.

      Yet we needn’t worry as nature will solve their dilemma when they go out in the ‘non-existing” snow and ice and freeze to death. We must be merciful and not place their contorted bodies in temperature controlled cabinets for people to laugh at, nor use those bodies as fuel for heating in winter. But we mustn’t forget the stupidity and make sure coming generations can learn from it.

      140

  • #
    Curious George

    Jules Verne was a much better forecaster.

    190

  • #
    Spetzer86

    You’d think these people would be looking further ahead. If their prognosis was correct, Southern islands would be where you’d want to end up as the only habitable areas on the map. Instead, they should send Skeptics to currently tropical islands like Tahiti or Hawaii where the temperature and inevitable rising sea levels would make our lives short and hellish. Preferably somewhere with nice beaches. I think this idea could really have legs if we worked on a petition. It’s only fair that we sacrifice for our beliefs and sentence ourselves to the pain and suffering of living near the equator.

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    • #
      Extreme Hiatus

      Exactly. Based on this plan and the planetary fever forecasts, only the skeptics would survive. How inconvenient is that?

      150

    • #
      ivan

      You must realise this type of plan is based on emotions not thought. In fact the people that produce these plans only ever emote and never never actually think.

      160

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        Process description from Catallaxy files and Steve Kates:

        Conservative, AKA Normal People = facts, analysis ——-> conclusion.

        Liberals AKA Walking Nerve Endings = feelings, conclusion ——> rationalization

        90

        • #
          ROM

          .
          Graeme No. 3 @ # 1.4 with his outline of the mental processes of the deluded believers and the constant reinforcement of their delusions as they refuse to read anything that might create any smidgin of doubt in their paranoid delusions probably has provided an answer to a question I have been mulling on for a few years now re the catastrophic global warming / climate change delusions of the believers.

          My question has always been,
          Don’t those completely deluded Climate Change fanatics who regularly promote incarceration of any questioners and doubters and the “criminal” Deniers of the “Climate Change” ideology right through to the level of items such as 10;10 snuff video ever consider just what their demands might mean for them personaly if, for now increasing and substantial recently observed facts , the whole of the present Climate Change ideology and its deluded psychology was up-ended with a well maked onset of global cooling.

          And then the former Deniers and the public and the politicals and even some of the media might begin to add up the losses in life, in wealth, in societal cohesion , in energy production destruction, in reduced health factors as resources were diverted to “fighting” [?? ] the so called climate change and etc and could prove and would lay all these problems created by the enforced belief in the Climate Change meme and ideology at the feet of those very same groups and individuals who in their total delusion promoted the incarceration and even execution of Deniers for even doubting their own professed and deluded ideology on climate change..

          Don’t those utterly deluded believers in Climate Change who demand the most draconian incarceration and even executions of the so called Deniers ever even think of the consequences for them personally if and when the global climate begins to cool [ as it already appears to be doing so ] and the public and politicals begin to see for themselves the utter extremes of a deluded and near criminal Climate Change ideology and its adherents, might also then decide that those deluded adherents to the climate /change ideology and their extremely serious and destructive impact on all aspects of our society should be made to pay a price commiserate with the price they intended to impose on everybody else who dared to doubt and question their own grandiose and deluded beliefs in their own abilities to control the planet’s climate and the way in which that climate changes through time.

          I think Graeme No 3 has the answer to that question of mine.

          With more and more evidence / pressure applied to the climate change belief system and the more and more the complete failures of every prediction and projection on catastrophic Climate Change and their invariable “fails”, the ever tighter the circle in which the deluded ones seek to bind around themselves into to prevent themselves from havi, ferventally ng to face the fact that everything they believed in so vehementaly and so vocally could be or is just plain wrong.

          Plus after expending so much time and personal ego in reinforcing their beliefs in the catstrophic climate change ideology and the consequent unfaceable “loss of face’ before the global public and after, if they are lucky, slowly accepting just how wrong they were and how right the deniers are turning out to be as the global climate just keeps right on doing what the global climate has always kept right on doing regardless of all their efforts to force the climate and mankind to do what the climate change deluded ones so harshly promoted..

          The Fall of their ideology will rarely be matched by the few past examples of the total collapse of an abjectly inhuman ideology that openly called for the incarceration, isolation and execution of those who would not accept that ideology’s and its adherents grandiose claims to a God like power that can supposedly take control of an entire planet’s climate system and turn that planetary climate into a climatic nirvana..

          70

    • #
      Gazman

      Agree.
      It is interesting that one of the top tourist destinations is the south island of NZ. If it is good enough for Frodo, it is good enough for me.
      Where do I sign up?

      30

  • #
    TdeF

    So frozen sharks, frozen Florida, freezing Britain, thousands being rescued from huge snowfalls in the Swiss Alps, half a metre of snow in the Sahara and even the government of tropical Bangladesh handing out blankets to prevent hypothermia and an overall drop in average world temperature last year is Global Warming?

    You can only be thankful they have changed it to anthropogenic climate change because the world is cooling which is caused by climate change which is caused by heating which is caused by increased CO2 which is caused by coal and cars.

    Remember, the Science is in. In what is the question.

    351

    • #
      TdeF

      Also there is this running theme in the media that Donald Trump is mad and that Kim Jong Un is justifiably offended in threatening to wipe out New York. That means half the population of North America is mad too, Clinton’s deplorables who pay the wages of the Hollywood elites as actors and politicians pretend to righteous moral people.

      The irony has been that actors are the ones who deny the casting couch exists. Or pretend that it was just Weinstein and Spacey. Oprah and Streep had no idea.

      Who would have thought Hollywood and TV actors were so fully of hypocrisy when they spend their time jetting around the world on holidays denouncing others as climate deniers. I suppose it is just an extension of acting, crafting an image of the caring person fighting for the rights of others and to save the planet from people like themselves.

      310

      • #
        Another Ian

        TdeF

        “Hollywood ethics”

        https://realclimatescience.com/2018/01/hollywood-ethics/

        I’ve added a reply at 17.1.2.1.1. of yesterdat’s unthreaded too

        80

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        I noticed a unique comment the other day on a blog [snip.]

        220

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Rod, was it not Diderot who said it this way:

          “Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.” ?

          While still relevant, I think your version has greater applicability in today’s post-modernist world.

          100

          • #
            Rod Stuart

            It was attributed to “Hans-Hermann Hoppe” where I saw it.

            20

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Hans-Hermann Hoppe, born September 2, 1949 is a German-born American Austrian School economist, and paleolibertarian anarcho-capitalist philosopher, who has read widely, including Diderot.

              He would also seem to be an paleo-anarcho-plagiarist too.

              20

      • #
        Extreme Hiatus

        “The irony has been that actors are the ones who deny the casting couch exists… they spend their time jetting around the world on holidays denouncing others as climate deniers.”

        Indeed. We need to follow Alinsky’s methods and flip this story. Is Hollywood filled with Casting Couch Deniers? Yes it is.

        And isn’t it great the way Climate Change and Casting Couch are both CC… as in IPCC. International Panel on Casting Couches.

        Of course, 97% of Castingcouchologists agree that this is happening, and that it is entirely caused by humans.

        140

        • #
          Gazman

          It is interesting that Cathay Pacific and Air NZ, both entirely dependent upon fossil fuels for their businesses and as a result, amongst the biggest per capita CO2 emitters, donate to the AGW cause.

          30

      • #
        Manfred

        The article is perfectly and dementedly clear on this,

        2018: Reunification of Korea with Pyongyang as the capital.

        Only UN-esque eco-marxist deranged ideology could conceive of this kind of dystopian vision worse than hell itself indeed, akin to suggesting that the German capital should be at Bergen-Belsen.

        Make absolutely NO MISTAKE, the depravity of the N.Korean regime make the Nazis look like kindergarten kids in a play-pen.

        Forum for the Future announce themselves with the following statement:

        We are an international non-profit working with business, government and [UN] civil society to solve complex sustainability challenges

        see: UN Department of Economic and Social Affairs

        God help us should this UN conspiring NWO ever come close to absolute power. May POTUS DJT VSG seriously rattle the cage at DAVOS.

        50

        • #
          Manfred

          Go to Wikipedia and download the Forum for the Future
          Report and financial statements for the year ended 31 December 2014.
          Take a look at the long line up of virtue signalling, pecksniffian actors ….

          Grant funders and major donors
          Benindi Fund
          C&A Foundation
          Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation Economic Development Board Singapore The Esmée Fairbairn Foundation
          The European Commission
          The Sainsbury Family Charitable Trusts The Shell Foundation
          Pioneer partners and US founder partners
          Bupa
          The Crown Estate Ecover Belgium NV Ingersoll Rand Kimberly-Clark Europe Kingfisher
          Marks & Spencer
          O2
          Sky
          Target Corporation TUI Travel
          Unilever
          Network partners: worldwide
          3M United Kingdom Aggregate Industries Aimia
          Air New Zealand AkzoNobel NV Alliance Boots
          Arriva
          Associated British Foods
          Aviva Investors
          Capgemini
          Carillion
          Cathay Pacific
          Certis Europe
          The China Navigation Company Colep

          40

  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    I lived in the South Island of New Zealand when I first came to New Zealand. It was Hell.

    Good wines, good food, excellent skiing in the winter, great bush to visit in the summer. Cabins miles from anywhere, that you could rent by the day, if you had a four-wheel drive.

    Then the tourists moved in, and ruined it for the rest of us. We now go to Stuart Island for our fun.

    230

  • #
    Yonniestone

    I’m actually surprised they even suggest the idea of incarceration, saving the planet or not people of this ilk generally use extermination as a preferred method of achieving their goals as it removes any dissenting voices that could promote counter arguments and sends a clear message to the Proles that resistance has its consequences.

    I back this claim with the various “denier” mitigations suggested in the past decade and ~100 million dead last century directly linked to political thinking based on this ideology.

    Somehow an “anti liberty camp” just doesn’t wash.

    40

    • #
      rapscallion

      It should be made clear that the 100 million+ dead is directly linked to Socialism. It makes no difference whether it is National, Soviet, Chinese, Cambodian or any other “revolutionary” grouping. The end result is the same.

      50

  • #
    Kip Hansen

    Lest anyone think this is a current document:
    Climate Futures
    Responses to Climate Change in 2030
    October 2008

    It contains not just one, but five fruit-cake nutty futures through 2030.
    All five of their 2017 (nine years after publication) scenarios are laughably off-base.

    Example: “2017 Authorities warned to prepare for a ‘suicide epidemic’ in the US caused by the depression.”

    170

    • #
      Curious George

      Authors did foresee Hillary losing! That proves the rest.

      100

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        George, Any of us who bothered to look at the presidential race from an impartial standpoint could foresee Hillary losing. It was all about personalities and what she had had done, but very little about what they planned to do (apart from pillaging the treasury).

        140

      • #
        William

        And Trump being re-elected for a fourth term (must have changed the constitution: “The year is 2030 … The US president has called for the UN to be dismantled.”

        20

    • #
      Another Ian

      Interesting mention at Chiefio the other day of a potential link between dietary salt deficiency and anti-depressant action

      https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/01/04/w-o-o-d-3-january-2018/#comment-90142

      60

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Yea Gods and little fishes. I bet that the authors of this philosophical wet dream are so proud of their efforts. I especially like the bit that says:

      … we need bold action now to make it happen. We play our part by inspiring and challenging organisations with positive visions of a sustainable future;

      Presumably they then expect everybody of a lower caste, to simply tug at their forelocks, and jolly well get to it.

      110

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Leadership,
        in today’s world,
        is such a wonderful thing;
        don’t question it.

        KK

        50

      • #
        MudCrab

        Presumably they then expect everybody of a lower caste, to simply tug at their forelocks, and jolly well get to it.

        Actually they expect everybody of every caste to get on with it.

        One of the elephants in the room with Marxism is the fact that Marx and his followers want to reform other people. Marx was of the belief society was made up of those who worked (Proletariat) and those who owned the means of production (Bourgeoisie) and believed there should be a class struggle between the two groups.

        However young Karl was neither Proletariat or Bourgeoisie, meaning he had no real stake in any reform other than the fact that clever people like him might (cough… WILL) be asked to step up and use their clever thinking powers to lead the new and more equal society.

        In effect he was an outsider looking in on the problem and expecting everyone else to change their way of life to suit his person views. The workers and the owners were his experimental toys for his own visions and if he managed to break these toys, well, they didn’t really belong to him so… oppps, sorry, guess it is time to go back to the caviar and wine.

        Social reform is in many ways all about jealous people who are too lazy to achieve their own success and instead wish to rise their own social standing by dragging the successful down. YOU have to change for the betterment of THEM.

        Green is the same. YOU have to change because THEY want a ‘better’ life.

        60

        • #
          rapscallion

          “Social reform is in many ways all about jealous people who are too lazy to achieve their own success” You have a good point there and it’s one that Jordan Peterson makes in his presentation “Identity politics and the Marxist lie of white privilege” See
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfH8IG7Awk0. Please watch it by all means, but his salient point is that such people have not so much a genuine desire to help the proletariat as a hatred of their own or even more so the rich. So yes, it is about jealous and envious people.

          I am reminded of the quote by CS Lewis who said that ““Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

          40

          • #

            The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

            Those tormentors lack conscientiousness or approval; those that pull insects apart for fun! :-(

            10

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          Social reform is in many ways all about jealous people who are too lazy to achieve their own success and instead wish to rise their own social standing by dragging the successful down.

          That is a very insightful point of view, and nicely put. Thank you.

          20

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      It gets better…His Maj gets it wrong….

      https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/mar/08/prince-charles-monarchy

      “The Prince of Wales is to issue a warning that the world has only “100 months to act” before the damage caused by global warming becomes irreversible.”

      Oh…whoops….:

      https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/28/prince-charles-extends-climate-doomsday-deadline/

      “Prince Charles is warning that there are only 35 years left to save the planet from climate disaster, which represents a 33-year extension of his previous deadline.”

      And Sydneys dams would never fill again…….( actual quote )
      http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/landline/old-site/content/2006/s1844398.htm

      “Interview with Professor Tim Flannery

      Reporter: Sally Sara

      First Published: 11/02/2007

      SALLY SARA: Well, making good use of water is one of the subjects of this week’s interview. Professor Tim Flannery has warned climate change will impact on Australia to the point where Sydney can expect to receive 60 per cent less rainfall than it does at present. If that’s the case, what about the bush? What can Australian farmers expect as weather patterns alter? I spoke with Professor Tim Flannery about climate change, water and the intriguing subject of carbon trading. Professor Flannery, congratulations firstly on being named as Australian of the Year.

      PROFESSOR TIM FLANNERY: Thank you very much.

      SALLY SARA: What will it mean for Australian farmers if the predictions of climate change are correct and little is done to stop it? What will that mean for a farmer?

      PROFESSOR TIM FLANNERY: We’re already seeing the initial impacts and they include a decline in the winter rainfall zone across southern Australia, which is clearly an impact of climate change, but also a decrease in run-off. Although we’re getting say a 20 per cent decrease in rainfall in some areas of Australia, that’s translating to a 60 per cent decrease in the run-off into the dams and rivers. That’s because the soil is warmer because of global warming and the plants are under more stress and therefore using more moisture. So even the rain that falls isn’t actually going to fill our dams and our river systems, and that’s a real worry for the people in the bush. If that trend continues then I think we’re going to have serious problems, particularly for irrigation.”

      And there could be a bit of a rough ( but interesting ) ride to an galactic outpost for climate deniers:

      https://www.cnet.com/news/stephen-hawking-ill-pay-for-climate-deniers-to-fly-to-venus/

      “”Next time you meet a climate denier,” he said, “tell them to take a trip to Venus. I will pay the fare.”
      Hawking has long advocated that we’re treating our planet so badly that we will have to leave it soon — in 100 years, perhaps.
      Yet America’s withdrawal from the Paris Climate Agreement suggests our nation’s leaders don’t fear the fires of hell as much as Hawking does.
      Perhaps this will be something that Oprah might campaign on, should she decide to enter the boiling atmosphere of a presidential race.”

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5253705/Stephen-Hawking-Earth-burn-thanks-climate-change.html

      “Professor Stephen Hawking has warned that Earth will become unbearably hot, hellish world if global warming continues.
      The physicist has previously said President Donald Trump’s decision to withdraw from the Paris Climate Agreement has doomed our planet.
      Now Hawking has reiterated his prediction, saying Earth will one day look like the 460°C (860°F) planet Venus if we don’t cut greenhouse gas emissions.”

      460 C atmosphere? …..you’d need a constant nuclear conflagration to produce that much heat….but youd be warm at least…no heating gas bills….

      100

      • #
        TdeF

        The predictions are endless. Has a single prediction come true? My favorite is 100 metres Robyn Williams, the ABC science guy who had the sea rising by 100 metres by 2100. He was accused of gross exaggeration. There was no apology then, just defence. Now 11 years later, we should have seen a 10 metre rise in the sea, which the people at Circular Quay would surely have noticed. Have people noticed anything at all?

        What leads someone in a responsible and paid public position to make up stuff like this? Trust me, I have a science degree and you don’t have one, so I can say anything I like.

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        • #
          PeterS

          By extrapolating their predictions the way they do we can safely presume the sea levels will FALL by at least 100 m.

          10

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          … we should have seen a 10 metre rise in the sea, which the people at Circular Quay would surely have noticed.

          I don’t see why. All the scientifically modeled rise in water at Circular Quay, will occur, but will then just run off, to find its way back into the ocean. Do they no longer teach kids that water always runs down hill? I ask this question as a skeptic.

          30

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            There was an old movie where the ‘hero’ walked around talking to a 6 foot rabbit which he claimed accompanied him. When people said they couldn’t see any rabbit he would explain that it was invisible, and some people believed that the rabbit was real.
            So Hollywood will remake the film with Robyn Williams accompanied by an INVISIBLE 10 foot high sea rise and some people will believe in the sea level rise. Probably call it An Inconvenient Rabbit.

            30

            • #
              Rereke Whakaaro

              Well, with the incessant hype about a warming of seven tenths of one degree per century, it might as well be called, “an incontinent rabbit”.

              40

      • #
        Annie

        OS. Prince Charles is HRH, not HM. The Queen is HM, not HRH.

        40

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Whoops…..that probably explains why i got in trouble parking in the wrong space at Buck House….. :-)

          60

          • #
          • #
            Manfred

            OriginalSteve…or why I was aggressively apprehended in the precinct of the parliament building in Canberra just before Christmas 2016, with absolutely no one about, by a cruising corpulent Federal Police officer with nothing better to do than to lean ridiculously out of his patrol car window, as if he was in Chips, replete with his tight shirt and aviator shades, and vigorously berate me for walking on the Parliamentary private road instead of the Parliamentary private pavement. It would have been far more appropriate had he thanked me for making his utterly boring life infinitesimally interesting, just for a pico-second.

            40

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          Let me see if I have understood that aright?

          Prince Charles is HRH, not HM. The Queen is HM, not HRH. Got it!

          And the Duke of Edinburgh is also HRH, and not HM, because only the Queen is HM. Got that!

          So by that logic, Princess Anne would also be HRH, not HM. That figures! Except that her HRH is not the same flavor as Charles’s HRH.

          There are a lot of HRH’s here!

          Perhaps they got a job lot?

          And then of course, there is Harold Reginal Horsham, who owns the personalised number plate “HRH”.

          40

      • #
        MudCrab

        Oh, the ‘Venus is proof of CO2 based warming’ argument.

        It still bemuses me that otherwise rational people believe that Venus is proof of runaway CO2 greenhouse warming.

        Yes. Venus has CO2, ergo CO2 made it extremely warm.

        That entire CLOSER TO THE SUN bit of the discussion never seems to be considered. I wonder if these people understand that entire tilt of the Earth and its driving force on Summer and Winter.

        60

        • #
          Annie

          It particularly puzzles me that Hawking would think that…or does he? Has he been got at?

          30

        • #
          rapscallion

          “I wonder if these people understand that entire tilt of the Earth and its driving force on Summer and Winter.” No, they don’t is the short answer. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve pointed out that the Arctic re-freezes every NH winter – and the reason why – I dare not go into the “why we put our clock back and forward” saga – else I lose the will to live.

          30

        • #
          dadgervais

          Actually, closer to the sun accounts for only a small part of the difference.

          It’s the 93 atmospheres of pressure that accounts for most.

          Of course, every time we replace an O2 molecule with a CO2 molecule, we increase the mass (therefore pressure) of our atmosphere. But not to worry, the total effect of all human activity is not yet measureable in this regard, nor will it ever be.

          20

          • #
            AndyG55

            increasing CO2 also increases the dry lapse rate, thus increasing cooling..

            again.. by an immeasurable amount. :-)

            Also adding CO2 changes the route of atmospheric cooling.. by an immeasurable amount.

            10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Along with record Dows America’s already low energy prices are going down due to Trump tax reform plus one million workers are getting bonuses up to US$3,000.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/utilities-cutting-rates-cite-benefits-of-trump-tax-reform/article/2645375

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  • #
    oldbrew

    Guantanamo Bay for climate rebels – brilliant. How’s that ‘accelerating warming’ going?

    50

  • #
    Another Ian

    Not helping their batting average

    “Report: 485 Scientific Papers Published in 2017 Undermine Supposed ‘Consensus’ on Climate Change”

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/10/report-485-scientific-papers-published-in-2017-undermine-supposed-consensus-on-climate-change/

    90

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  • #
    yarpos

    I will keep going then. I can think of few nicer places to be exiled to than NZ South Island.

    100

    • #
      el gordo

      Steady on, its lord of the rings country.

      40

    • #
      sophocles

      Steady on, its lord of the rings country.

      No orcs, no goblins, no dragons, no snakes (at all, none, zip, zilch nada!), and no mendicant magicians or lost Gollums.

      NZ’s South Island has over 30% more land area than the North Island, hence it’s known as The Mainland. Ready access to West Island (Australia). It has a population of c. 1.116,000 (2017) which is about 20% of NZ’s current population of about 4.5M. It has the country’s best ski resorts (Mount Hutt and The Remarkables), excellent river fishing for trout and salmon, some of NZ’s biggest loafers (at Billionaire’s Paradise, I mean Queenstown), over two thirds of NZ’s hydro electricity generation so the power supply is regular and reliable, and the best scenery in the country,

      So what’s the down side? It’s a few degrees cooler in summer—about 2°C cooler than Auckland on average and quite a bit more in winter. It has been known to snow as far north as Timaru in summer (Jan-2017) but that doesn’t happen often. Snow is not unusual in Christchurch in winter, but it’s not compulsory. Climate is sort of like Southern England. The Wets Coast can attract up to 200 inches of rain in a year but that’s on the western side of the Southern Alps.

      The point is: it’s civilised, with all modern conveniences, sturdy infrastructure and the best roads in the country. Forget Kergulen and South Georgia. Windswept outcrops of Antarctica. All the Wimps live in the North Island where it’s 2° warmer.

      30

      • #
        sophocles

        So, if I’m to be exiled as a Klimate Denier, I choose New Zealand’s South Island. Bliss!

        60

      • #
        Annie

        Just one snag…tbe sandflies! They are worse than the Scottish Nationalist midges (as a Yorkshire friend of ours married to a Pisky Minister called them) that utterly plagued us when we fished for mackerel on Loch Long. Having said that, we loved the South Island (bar the sandflies).

        10

        • #
          R2Dtoo

          Eh! Just wait until the Yanks start marching into Canada to escape the unbearable “heat” of the Southern USA. We will call them the “nosnowbirds” (aka “viners”) and set up campgrounds complete with walking/biking/cart paths, barbecue pits for tailgate parties featuring moose and caribou sausages, pulled musk ox and pickled polar bear. Please don’t tell them about our monster mosquitos. We used them for flight training during WWII. Their cages still dot the Prairie landscape. Yes- I have blessed the earth with my presence that long! Been a good ride, but I still freeze my butt off every winter. Humpff.

          30

        • #
          sophocles

          Ah, yes, the sandflies. Forgot those. They’re Voracious. They are a plague and a pest in summer in the high country.

          There is a functional insect repellant available. Rumour had it that it was commissioned or developed by the New Zealand Army so fewer soldiers were dragged off into the tussock … Nothing to do with tourist losses, of course.

          00

      • #
        Rod Stuart

        An d don’t forget the SPEIGHTS.
        Speights Gold Medal Ale, the finest brew since 1876.

        10

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        I used to drive through the Cromwell George quite often, when I lived south of the 45th. It was an interesting road, back in the day.

        I say this, because the road and the rail line sort of shared the same space on the northern side of the gorge.

        On more than one occasion, I was traveling along the road, following the red lights in front of me, only to suddenly realise that I was bouncing across railway sleepers. The road represented the safest route for vehicular traffic. The rail line represented the shortest route, for trains, if not the most comfortable, for everybody else. But hey, following a train was preferable to having one sneak up behind you.

        Trust me in this. :-)

        20

    • #
      Manfred

      Given that Blenheim is at a similar latitude as Rome, its really quite pleasant. from the weather/climate perspective. The wine growing regions with their vineyards, stone fruit growing, orchards and citrous fruit, pleasant scenery and space, University cities of Dunedin and Christchurch, and fibre-optic internet. Not such a ‘bad’ place. Fill it with ‘deniers’ and eco-marxist condemned political exiles and it could be an amazing place.

      20

    • #
      Another Ian

      But you’ll have to get up to speed on North Island jokes

      10

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Getting up to speed on North Island jokes, means being able to tell North Island jokes, which means talking slowly, and forgetting the punch thingy, that people sometimes laugh at, even if we don’t know … what was it that we don’t know?

        00

        • #
          sophocles

          Don’t believe him. All NZ jokes come from the Mainland. The NI ones are the ruined ones …:-)
          Forgetting that punch thingy is probably because of partaking of the wild tobacco… there’s still a bit of it about. (Just look for possums out in the sun … :-)

          00

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    Kinky Keith

    I was out driving in the bush the other day and came across a couple of sharp turns with a sign telling me that I had reached Lemmings Corner.

    Presumably some had missed the turn and gone over the edge.

    The situation prompted thoughts of the current state of society where the vast majority of people are unwitting victims of deliberate manipulation and sadly never reach any understanding of this fact.

    I guess society has never been perfect but it does hurt to realise that the average person has less personal freedom now to think and act than was the case when I came into the world many decades ago.

    The shackles may be difficult to see, but they are there.

    KK

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    lemiere jacques

    you can use as much fossile fuel you want as long you repent, di caprio syndrome.

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    NB

    ’2030 … African Union, the Latin American Trade Council and the Alliance of Turkic States have emerged as powerful players on the scene.’

    Someone actually believes this?

    TdeF says, above: ‘half the population of North America is mad too’

    There are currently two ways of viewing the world. Presumably the left vision looks real to them, but how? It is fascinating how two visions of the present can be so different, and how incomprehensible each vision is to the other. Societies tend to divide into halves, and in some societies these divisions are formalised. I’d love an anthropologist’s view on what is going on.

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    • #

      NB “I’d love an anthropologist’s view on what is going on”.
      Be careful what you wish for … social anthropologists frequently got it wrong and I suspect that will now be worse in this new age pc loaded academic environment. I am wondering why JCU NQ hasn’t decided to re-title itself. Being named after a grumpy old white-man colonist is surely inappropriate these days, when we have Rhodes Scholars protesting about statues of Cecil Rhodes.
      “Grumpy” is not unjustified. By the time Cook arrived at the islands now named after him, and where the residents solved his problem, he was already well past his use-by date. His flogging rate seems to have been one of the highest. Bligh’s rate was remarkably low.

      50

    • #
      PeterS

      The leftists view of the world is very obvious by their blatant tactics. It’s obvious their agenda is to instigate a dictatorship. They have no limit to how far they will go to achieve that express aim simply because they have no morals or ethics. It’s very similar to how National Socialism started in Germany before WWII. There too they suppressed freedom of speech before continuing with their agenda. Not much has really changed.

      20

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘It’s very similar to how National Socialism started in Germany before WWII.’

        The National Socialists formed after WW1, an uninspiring bunch of workers numbering around 20 members, then Adolf turned up. His passion and oratory skills saw him become leader very quickly, a charismatic individual capable of mass murder.

        There won’t be gangs of brown shirts running through Sydney streets any time soon, everything has changed.

        10

    • #
      Manfred

      The mean IQ in Somalia is 70.

      10

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        That’s mean.

        Surely the correct figure is 97.

        10

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          The answers you get, is a function of the questions you set.

          Every society has its own characteristics, and respondents will answer questions based on their own society.

          That is why there is not, and can not be, anything like, a universal IQ test, that applies to everybody.

          In one Chinese dialect, the word for seven, is the same as the word used for a flight of geese.

          10

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            And why not? although i have to ask what is the word for a flight of ducks?

            00

            • #
              Graeme No.3

              And have you been menaced by low flying geese?
              Our new Operations Manager ducked (that word again) when 2 flew past him. I can’t say I blame him, even though I am considerably bigger than average, I avoided them and he made me feel small. (Hint: Firm had to buy a special chair for his office) [cousin of one of Australia's more 'vigorous' front rowers]

              And the geese were no respecters of persons. One of the ganders snuck up on him and bit him. No more geese was the decree. Sic transit goose.

              00

  • #

    As Tony Thomas points out they also estimated oil would rise from $150 in 2008 to $400 by 2022. So far it has risen all the way to $60.

    Those knowledgeable about the oil and understand economics would have predicted that the price would fall, not rise. The actual oil in the ground is far greater than proven reserves, which are based upon what is both known and viable to extract. The high price makes it economically viable to extract at higher cost places, like in the deep oceans, or from tar sands, or in inhospitable and remote parts of Siberia. As a result of the research, and scaling of production, unit costs then fall.
    The current proven reserves now are the highest ever in terms of years of production. They are at about 1500 billion barrels or just over 40 years of production at current rates. But unproven reserves are many times this. There is up to 1700 billion barrels in the Alberta Tar Sands and in the heavy oils of Venezuela. It is estimated there could be 2100 billion barrels of shale oil in Saudi Arabia, a number of times proven reserves. But with the Saudi’s keeping output at around 13 million barrels a day it will be decades before they get through proven reserves.
    The same is true of gas, whilst the proven reserves of coal have long been known to be huge. Proven reserves of fossil fuels contain around three times the potential emissions that alarmists claim will cause 2C of warming, yet unproven reserves of all three fossil fuels are likely a number of times proven reserves.

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      OriginalSteve

      I’d read we have huge reserves as yet untapped, and many capped wells not even used….

      The whole “peak oil” was just another numpty climate scare….*yawn*….

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      • #

        Exactly. What is more, activists closing down production of fossil fuels in Australia, Canada or the United States will not make much difference to the global picture, as proven reserves are widely dispersed. This graphic I produced of potential emissions from proven reserves of fossil fuels probably over-states coal and understates natural gas, but helps with the global picture. Basically, policy-makers cannot meaningfully reduce global emissions if they do not persuade countries like Russia, Saudi Arabia, China, India, Iran, Qatar, and Indonesia to leave most of their proven reserves – and a good part of their future National Income – in the ground. Whilst the activists protest at Exxon annual board meetings, they are little or no climate protests outside of the Embassies of these countries. To me, the absence of such protests in another indication that climate alarmism is primarily ideological, rather than scientific. Another is the thought of sending opponents to penal colonies rather than attempting better them in debates conducted on a equal footing.

        https://manicbeancounter.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/co2-emissions-from-proven-reserves-2015.png?w=600&zoom=2

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      • #

        We will never run out of oil but eventually, it may become too expensive to burn.

        10

    • #
      David Maddison

      New technologies such as horizontal or directional drilling have lead to massively improved access to otherwise inaccessible or uneconomic reserves of oil and coal seam and other gas deposits. I wrote an article on this in Silicon Chip magazine.

      http://beta.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2016/July/Directional+Drilling%3A+How+It+Works?res=nonflash

      70

  • #
    el gordo

    Business as usual approach.

    By 2030 ‘globalisation has entered a phase of historic retreat in this divided world. Despite the Climate Agreement of 2012, accusations of ‘cheating’ in the carbon markets and ‘secret’, undeclared power stations collapsed cooperation into factions.’

    40

  • #
    Robber

    Scenario Planning is a well accepted way of considering critical uncertainties and developing plausible scenarios in order to discuss the impacts and the responses to give for each one of them. For example, farmers might consider a scenario of a 10 year drought; car makers might consider a future where oil is $200/barrel and governments ban petrol and diesel vehicles; investors might consider the consequences of a global depression. Individual scenarios are often pushed to extreme outcomes as evident by this climate futures example (one of five scenarios). That’s why even the IPCC created scenarios, as their science is not settled.
    An article by McKinsey states: “You will think more broadly if you develop a range of possible outcomes, each backed by the sequence of events that would lead to them. The exercise is particularly valuable because of a human quirk that leads us to expect that the future will resemble the past and that change will occur only gradually. By demonstrating how—and why—things could quite quickly become much better or worse, we increase our readiness for the range of possibilities the future may hold.”
    The future will be different.
    “Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.” (Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895)
    “Everything that can be invented has been invented.” (Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899)
    “Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau.” (Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics, Yale University, 1929)
    “I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.” (Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943)
    “There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.” (Ken Olson, president, chairman, and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977)
    NOSTRADAMUS predictions for 2018 have foretold one of the worst years in global history with a string of natural disasters, the fall of the economy, and the start of World War 3.
    Prediction is very difficult, especially if it’s about the future. Niels Bohr.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘NOSTRADAMUS predictions for 2018 have foretold one of the worst years in global history with a string of natural disasters, the fall of the economy, and the start of World War 3.’

      There is talk of a market correction and collapse of the old system, with the US dollar replaced by the yuan.

      Extreme weather in the mid latitudes will produce ‘unprecedented’ natural disasters.

      WW3 is averted as the armed forces everywhere are used to assist those in need.

      10

  • #
    Dennis

    High Church of Climate Change,

    The True Deceivers.

    80

  • #
    Stuart Jones

    Where do I sign up?
    Would love to go to an Antarctic Island to live, Bring it on.

    40

    • #
      sophocles

      Would love to go to an Antarctic Island to live, Bring it on.

      I don’t think I would. This is the weather down there at the moment in the middle of summer. It’s somewhat more populated with deeper storms over the winter.

      The lower the central pressure and the closer the isobars in those cyclones, the more intense the inds. Wind chill factor would make temperatures really miserable.

      10

  • #
    Ruairi

    Many millions of skeptics worldwide,
    Have climate-change never denied,
    But from warmists dissent,
    May in future be sent,
    To some back-of-beyond, woe betide.

    130

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      If you squint and uses some imagination, the phrase “To some back-of-beyond, woe betide.”
      distills down to the word “backside”…

      Just seems to reinforce the original point of the prose…. :-)

      50

      • #
        joseph

        “If you squint and uses some imagination, the phrase “To some back-of-beyond, woe betide.”
        distills down to the word “backside”…”

        I squinted and used some imagination but I think maybe the word distills may be a clue as to how you got to where you got to. :-)

        20

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      A future for most people without coal fired power stations will be cold, bleak and hungry…..

      Unless that is the idea of course….

      From the article:

      “When temperatures in control rooms get as high as 50 or 60 degrees the electronic control systems buckle and the boilers leak. Failures are inevitable, although unfortunately not predictable.”

      If it was 50C in a control room, people would walk out. Has this guy actually been in apower station?

      “Wind power and solar power are in large part predictable. Yes, they are intermittent, but it is usually possible to tell a day or two ahead of time when and where the wind will blow and the sun will shine. There’s time to put batteries, hydro and gas on standby.

      But in summer it’s becoming impossible to know when and where coal-fired power stations will blow. They are becoming unpredictably intermittent, all the more so each year they age.”

      Yep – ask SA what its like to run a rats nest of “semi-predictable” power generation.

      This is just nonsense…..

      Does he think power stations are stuck in some Charles Dickins time warp from the 1800s lack of OH&S ?

      100

    • #
      Serp

      After reading The Age’s economic editor’s contribution to the renewables log rolling jamboree one has to admire his effrontery.

      If there was ever any doubt about the determination of these boosters Peter Martin has dispelled it. No lie too big!

      40

    • #

      From that article that Dennis linked to is this little gem: (my bolding here)

      They are good at providing always-on baseload power, but that’s not needed in the middle of the night when the wind is blowing a gale and providing all of a system’s need for virtually nothing. They are not as good at turning on or ramping up quickly when the wind stops blowing. If they are used repeatedly to do that, they break down sooner.

      This of itself shows me that the writer of the article has absolutely no idea that Australia consumes 18000MW at the daily minimum power consumption. Of that total, wind power supplies around 6 to 8% on average of that total, with a high perhaps once or twice a year as good as 20%, and that’s not a straight line average but a single point in time Peak, and I have seen it lower than 1% on a number of occasions. 6 to 8% Average is absolutely unacceptable. Coal fired power supplies 80% of that 18000MW ALL THE TIME.

      As to ramping up and down, that too is bovine waste.

      Do this little exercise.

      Go to this link (Fossil Energy in Australia) and once there, go to the second chart down and click on the MW button at the top right of that chart.

      Now scroll to the bottom of the list of plants and their Units. At the bottom UNtick the boxes for each of the five States and the Total and Sub Total boxes as well, so now the chart is blank.

      Okay, so now, on that list of plants, go to the seventh line down, and it starts with Call A 4. Go across to CPP 3 and CPP 4 and tick just those two boxes.

      This is for the Callide Power Plant Units three and four. Those two Units at this plant are just one of only four SuperCritical plants in Australia, all four of them in Queensland, so the most recent technology coal fired plants here in Australia.

      Note how quickly they ramp up and down.

      This is nothing new at all, as for the last six Months plus I have been watching this, this one plant does just what you see there EVERY DAY.

      From 400MW down to 250MW in around an hour, and then the same again, back up to 400M.

      And just an observation here on the article writer’s claim that these coal fired Units fail on a regular basis. In the time period he quoted, covering 40 days or so, he had around six or so failures. So, 40 days by 45 Units (average) operating 24 hours a day, that’s a 0.3% failure rate. Hmm! That sounds pretty catastrophic to me. (/sarc)

      And, umm, did any of you ever know when they failed?

      The one State where there was a catastrophe, was the (mostly) wind powered State of SouthAus when a cascading failure over a period of minutes blacked out the whole State, a State which only consumes 5 to 6% of Australia’s total power consumption.

      His claim that in the THREE States where there still is coal fired power, those failures are concerning, and yet those failures led to ZERO State wide blackouts, in fact not even any load shedding.

      It’s a beat up, one that is totally and utterly devoid of the knowledge of actual facts.

      Tony.

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      • #
        Dennis

        Thank you Tony.

        Another example of Faux Facts Group reporting.

        50

      • #
        John of Cloverdale WA

        Thanks once again, Tony.

        60

      • #
        mikewaite

        Just few days ago UK Govt press agencies and the media were talking about total closure of all coal powered units in the UK
        by 2025 and probably much earlier due to the success of wind and solar .
        This morning, Jan 11th , the UK is in a typical winter “freezing fog” state. No sun , so no solar , very little wind so wind power is 0.6GW.
        Coal has been boosted up to nearly 7GW , which is handy because nuclear and gas are pushing into the red zones. Thank God for the French contribution of
        2GW from their nuclear and hydro ( a combination which has been analysed as being the best in terms of EROI – energy return on energy invested ).
        Clearly the UK Govt believes that the global warming is so entrenched that by 2025 we in UK will never again see a winter.

        60

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        That item was read out on a radio discussion I heard yesterday and it made me sick.

        Totally fraudulent in the way coal fired generators were rubbished and any innocent politicians hearing it would get the wrong view.

        Another media beat up. How do they get away with it!

        KK

        10

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Oooooohhhh I can see a future here for an entrepreneur, I’m going to sell “non carbon based biodiversity climate futures” tm.

    And all you deplorable plebs will be forced to buy them and I’ll be rich ,rich beyond my wildest dreams ha ha hah hah .

    50

  • #
    TdeF

    “They (coal) are good at providing always-on baseload power, but that’s not needed in the middle of the night when the wind is blowing a gale and providing all of a system’s need for virtually nothing.”

    “The more we move away from coal the more secure our power system becomes.”

    Two blatant deceits here. At night what if there is no wind at all? Where is the secure power? There is nothing.

    Secondly you get this wind is ‘free’ idea, costing ‘virtually nothing’. This appeals to some sort of greed, something for nothing. Wind is no more free than coal. Wind towers cost the same as coal generators, but only work 1/5th of the time, so they are 5x the price. Where is the ‘security’? Where is this free? False and illogical and deceitful. Typical.

    The requirements are low cost, reliable, adequate. Wind fails all three dismally.

    As for 40% of Adelaide’s power supplied by wind, I have spent summers there where for days there was no wind at all and the temperature over 100F at night.

    Now with the world record for the most expensive (and unreliable) electricity, it is amazing that anyone can argue that wind is cheap and secure.

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    • #
      TdeF

      As for the huge minerals smelting industries of South Australia, Lead, Iron, Aluminium, how can you run such businesses on windmills? That is just nuts. We are all paying to keep South Australia open for business, thanks to absurd ideas like this.

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    • #
      Annie

      When we get wind here North Central Vic) it is often strong from early to late evening but dies during the night. Wind and solar aren’t really going to do a lot at that time are they? In addition, we get days and days in the winter quite frequently with little sun (foggy until lunchtime) and no wind. Not sure how long expensive batteries would last or be recharged…oh no…good old National Grid to the rescue.
      There is a suggestion locally that there should be a solar micro-grid. Guess what, it would use the grid for distribution! And winter?! They really are misleading people who want to do the ‘right thing’ but have no idea about science and technology and who do no research for themselves.

      50

    • #
      Richard Baguley

      Take a look at UK generation right now:-
      Demand: 32.39GW
      Wind: 0.81GW
      Coal: 2.72
      Nuclear: 7.46
      Gas: 16.8
      plus others: continental interconnectors, hydro, pumped hydro.

      This is at demand nadir but two days ago peak demand was just below “red” level of c.50GW and all types were at capacity except wind which was 50%. I wondered out loud (Facebook) what would happen if the wind died. Yesterday it did and at 18.00GMT I reckon the UK was close to shutdowns.

      UK readers might be interested in the data source (note the paltry max coal figure in a country with hundreds of years of its own resource):- http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

      40

      • #
        PeterS

        I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Once their economy eventually collapses due to the increasing frequency of blackouts they wont need as much energy. Same goes here. Such problems often tend to be self-correcting as history keeps proving over and over.

        20

  • #
    John of Cloverdale WA

    I looked up Kerguelen Islands on wikitravel. An interesting place, but not for everyone.
    Beware the Penguin-eating-rabbits, but Kiwis should be happy with the number of sheep.
    “Do
    There are many interesting animals and plants. These include penguins, seals, Kerguelen cabbages, rabbits, cats and fish.
    Eat
    There are about 3500 sheep on the Grande Terre, so look forward to lots of mutton. In addition, there is plentiful Kerguelen cabbage, native only to Kerguelen. Rabbits and salmon have also been introduced. They also eat penguins occasionally. Penguin-eating rabbits are not found in any other place on earth.”

    60

    • #
      Annie

      I think I’d prefer NZ, thanks all the same. :)

      40

    • #
      StefanL

      Perhaps we should offer to relocate the most fervent climate alarmists to these sub-antarctic islands.
      (I would be happy to start the crowd-funding -:) )
      They would be far away from the soon-to-be-roasting tropics and could retreat up the mountains to avoid the rising sea-levels.
      They could then spend the rest of their days comparing their model predictions with the real world.

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    We haven’t got a single name for it yet.

    It likes to call itself nice things like Sustainable Development, though in its early form it had an official name and movement, Technocracy. Here it might be called Green Blob or Scientism. Globalism is often used as a reference. Judging from all the waste, afterthought, bungling and expense it’s definitely a polar opposite of Conservation.

    It’s yet another top-down arrangement where elites employ “concerned” intellectuals and unconcerned brutes to collaborate on what’s best for everybody barring all the useless nobodies, though finally the useful somebodies cop it as well. The underlying justification when it all starts to go wrong is that you can’t incinerate an omelette without smashing all the eggs.

    So what is it really, this movement for a tiny humanity and a Big Nature? And will even Nature survive the good intentions of our Green Betters?

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      davefromweewaa

      Hey Moso,
      Technocrat sounds more modern and republican than philosopher king but I like the one you often use, green better. Says it all really.
      Dave

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    Extreme Hiatus

    “We haven’t got a single name for it yet.”

    But THEY do: TRANSFORMING OUR WORLD: THE 2030 AGENDA FOR SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT

    ” We are determined to protect the planet from degradation, including through sustainable consumption and production,sustainably managing its natural resources and taking urgent action on climate change…”

    https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/21252030%20Agenda%20for%20Sustainable%20Development%20web.pdf

    Ironically, here’s one of their stated “visions”: “A world where… there is universal access to affordable, reliable and sustainable energy.”

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    Mark McD

    “wait for it, Kerguelen Island, South Georgia and New Zealand’s South Island. Magically, these are “International convict settlements.”

    Well one has to admire the consideration being shown for sceptics. In a world envisaged to be seeing soaring temps and unlivable heat, they want to send sceptics to 3 places not only most likely to survive the heat, but indeed, to thrive under the new conditions.

    I wonder what the Kiwis think of having a whole bunch of sceptics dumped on their paradise island? :D

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    Greg in NZ

    Maybe those 13,000 “climate refugees” being airlifted by chopper out of frigid, snow-covered, avalanche-buried, inaccessible, frozen willages in the European Alps may want to relocate to Kerguelen or the South Island, coz like y’know, it’s summer down here at the mo… but ssshhh, don’t tell anyone, it snowed on Christmas Day (again).

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    pat

    stand aside, Dr. David Viner, Prof Adam Sobel might replace you. reminder:

    3 Jan: CBS: Why is it so cold right now in a warmer world?
    While the United States has been in the deep freeze, the rest of the globe has been toastier than normal. The globe as a whole was 0.9 degrees warmer than normal Tuesday and the Arctic was more than 6 degrees warmer than normal, according to the University of Maine Climate Change Institute’s analysis…
    “If you look at the temperature map for the climate as a whole right now, the entire rest of the planet is warmer than the historical average with the exception of the Eastern United States and Canada, and the last three years — 2014, 2015 and 2016 — have been consecutively the warmest years on record,” atmospheric scientist and Columbia University professor Adam Sobel told CBS News last week

    below, BBC at 12mins in, report on Spain. Spain has been experiencing RECORD LOW TEMPERATURES across the country. some people have been trapped in their cars for 18 hours…etc.
    Great Barrier Reef story follows, starting at 16mins and continues right through until end of program at 26mins27secs.

    AUDIO: (listen from 12mins in) 10 Jan: BBC Business Report
    Also, heavy snow in parts of northern Spain has sparked a row between the government and a private road operator. And the extraordinary biodiversity of the world’s coral reefs is under threat. Mike Johnson presents.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05tf62w

    aha, I thought, should be easy to find more online. maybe if I could bother to translate some Spanish website articles. had to use the “print” version to be able to copy even these tiny morsels:

    9 Jan: EuroWeeklyNews: 700 snowploughs on standby as more snow, freezing cold and heavy rain due to hit Spain
    In data verified by Aemet, Riba de Escalote a town of Soria at an altitude of 1,040 metres has already recorded a temperature of -16.6 degrees Celsius, followed by Fresno de Cantespino (Segovia), with – 15.3. In third place, tied, are Puerto el Pico (Ávila) and Sigüenza (Guadalajara) with -14.3.
    A weather station in the town of Catantalojas in the Sierra Norte de Guadalajara has recorded -20.8 celsius but is has not been verified by the Aemet…
    Friday will see the arrival of another front and another on Saturday which is described as ‘quite active’…
    https://www.euroweeklynews.com/3.0.15/news/on-euro-weekly-news/spain-news-in-english/147096-700-snowploughs-on-standby-as-snow,-freezing-cold-and-heavy-rain-due-to-hit-spain

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    pat

    9 Jan: The Local Spain: IN PICS: Big freeze transforms southern Spain into Costa del Snow
    Roads were closed between Malaga and Ronda where 10cm of snow fell on Monday morning while on the coast in Fuengirola, the beaches were transformed into a winter wonderland after a hailstorm hit.
    Here are some of the best images of the day…
    https://www.thelocal.es/20180109/in-pics-big-freeze-turns-southern-spain-into-costa-del-snow

    8 Jan: The Local Spain: Big freeze continues across Spain with 30 provinces on alert
    The cold snap is set to continue across Spain bringing more snow and freezing temperatures to much of Spain.
    The national weather agency (AEMET) has issued weather warnings for 30 provinces with yellow alerts for much of Castile and Leon, Madrid, La Rioja and Aragon and also in the south of the country around Granada and Malaga.

    After a weekend of heavy snow that brought chaos to the roads and left hundreds of motorists on the AP-6 between Madrid and Avila trapped in the cars overnight, more snow is expected.
    Schools have been closed in Avila and Segovia and temperatures are expected to drop to well below freezing in Avila, Burgos and León.

    In the south around Jaén, Malaga and Granada heavy snow is also expected with the weather warning raised to amber – indicating significant risk.
    The cold front will also reach the Canary Islands where high winds, stormy seas and torrential rain have been forecast.
    The cold snap is expected to continue until Wednesday.
    https://www.thelocal.es/20180108/big-freeze-continues-across-spain-with-30-regions-on-alert

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    Mark M

    2008: Climate change will force refugees to move to Antarctica by 2030, researchers have predicted.

    “The climate study envisages a shift to a service based economy, people no longer owning cars but using bicycles and the eastern seaboard of the United States being protected by an eco-concrete wall that generates power from waves and tidal surges.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/3353247/Climate-change-study-predicts-refugees-fleeing-into-Antarctica.html

    2018:

    man rides bicycle in snow storm

    https://twitter.com/DrMartyFox/status/948932081115123712

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    pat

    10 Jan: NY Daily News: Erin Durkin: City dumping investments in fossil fuels, suing 5 big oil companies
    Mayor de Blasio and City Controller Scott Stringer announced Wednesday that they will aim to divest the city’s pension funds from $5 billion in investments of more than 190 fossil fuel companies ***within five years.
    And the city filed a lawsuit in Manhattan federal court late Tuesday against the five largest fossil fuel companies in the world — BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, Exxon Mobil, and Royal Dutch Shell — looking to force them to help foot the bill for the $20 billion the city is spending to rebuild from Hurricane Sandy and protect itself against future storms.
    “Climate change is real. It’s a painful, horrible reality,” de Blasio said at a lower Manhattan community center that was swamped with 20 feet of water during Sandy. “We’re going after those who have profited — and what a horrible, disgusting way to profit.”…

    They argue in court papers that the five oil giants broke public and private nuisance laws and are guilty of illegal trespassing on city property by causing floods and sea level rises…
    The suit doesn’t specify an amount of damages, but de Blasio said New York would seek billions. “For decades big oil ravaged the environment,” he said. “They used a classic cynical playbook. They denied and denied and denied that their product was lethal…It’s time for them to start paying for the damage they’ve done.”
    San Francisco and Oakland filed similar suits last year.

    Trustees of the city’s five pension funds will have to approve a move to divest from fossil fuels, a portion of the city’s $189 billion pension portfolios.
    The two biggest funds, New York City Employees’ Retirement System and the Teachers’ Retirement System, have majorities that support divestment, officials said Wednesday. It’s unclear if the other three do…

    Oil companies slammed de Blasio’s move. (READ THEIR PATHETIC RESPONSES)

    But climate activist Naomi Klein said the city’s suit could be a game changer…
    “Bullying isn’t going to work here the way it has in the past. This lawsuit is coming from the largest city in the most powerful country in the planet.”
    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/city-dumping-investments-fossil-fuels-suing-big-oil-companies-article-1.3748864

    3 pages: 10 Jan: Forbes: Climate Change Made Me Do It: Activists Press The `Necessity Defense’
    by Daniel Fisher
    On Sept. 23, 2016, a group of protesters blocked a Burlington Northern Santa Fe freight train carrying coal in Spokane, WA, to prevent the earth from warming up. From a scientific standpoint, the action was absurd: Stopping a single trainload of coal could hardly have any more impact on global climate change than the fluttering of a butterfly’s wings in Tanzania.

    As a piece of a political theater, it may have been more effective. The blockage by Rev. George Taylor and other members of groups called Veterans for Peace and Raging Grannies garnered widespread press coverage.
    And the protest may trigger a legal revolution as well. In a hearing tomorrow, a judge in Spokane is expected to hand down a written ruling allowing Taylor to argue he had no choice but to stop the train.

    Judge Debra Hayes has already indicated she’ll allow Taylor, a Lutheran pastor, to present the so-called “necessity defense” to defeat state charges of criminal trespass. Her formal order would clear the way him to bring in NASA scientists and other climate experts to try to convince a jury he had no reasonable alternative to halt human-induced global warming.

    The Spokane trial is one example of how activists are retooling the centuries-old necessity defense to justify increasingly aggressive protests designed not just to raise awareness of the risks of burning fossil fuels, but to prevent their movement across the country…

    “In some ways it fits very well with climate change,” said Kelsey Skaggs, a Harvard-trained lawyer and executive director of the Climate Defense Project, which supports climate activists. Defendants must prove the threat of overwhelming harm, Skaggs said, and “If climate change is not that, nothing is.”
    Arguing against that position are state prosecutors and business organizations…

    By presenting experts who say human-induced climate change is threatening the world’s population and ordinary citizens can’t use the political system to prevent it, lawyers hope to convince jurors their clients had no reasonable alternative but to break the law.
    Courts are understandably wary of this approach, since it doesn’t seem to have any practical limits…READ ON
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/legalnewsline/2018/01/10/climate-change-made-me-do-it-activists-press-the-necessity-defense/#23b36c753e0a

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    • #
      Mark M

      Mayor de Blasio and City Controller Scott Stringer could just refuse to buy/use any fossil fuel products and ban any future deliveries of and by any fossil fuels in area.

      Good luck with that.

      40

      • #
        PeterS

        Well if the ALP forms government and the Greens get there way, the whole of Australia will stop mining coal and stop using coal for power generation. Good luck to Australia with that. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is going bang busters building roughly a thousand new coal fired plants. Is Australia stupid or is it stupid?

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        • #
          el gordo

          The electorate has a narrow choice between two middle of the road parties, commonly known as the pseudo Marxist consortium.

          So the answer to your question, they are not stupid, just badly done by.

          30

          • #
            PeterS

            No the choice is not narrow at all. If the voters were even half awake the next party to form government would not be LNP or ALP. The decision is up to the people to choose another party, such as AC, they feel is best for the nation. Unfortunately, they are and will remain asleep for some time. So we will all have to learn our lesson the hard way.

            10

            • #
              el gordo

              They have been brainwashed by a pseudo Marxist consortium, so if you want to bring about a political revolution then the small parties must form a coalition and tell the people CO2 does not cause global warming.

              What are the odds?

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        • #

          Well if the ALP forms government and the Greens get their way, the whole of Australia will stop mining coal and stop using coal for power generation.

          I live for the day I see that special look on the faces of these politicians, that scared $hitle$$ look as they attempt to explain to an ‘adoring’ public just why they can’t close down those coal fired power plants.

          That will be absolutely priceless, that dumb vacant look as the realisation that their jobs just got flushed down the toilet hits home.

          Tony.

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          • #
            Serp

            AGL are making a good fist of trashing Loy Yang A, that is to say it’s not the politicians shutting down the coal fired power stations rather it’s the perverse incentive effect of the RET that is the cause.

            00

    • #
      Annie

      I trust those oil companies will refuse to supply NYC until they come to their senses.

      20

  • #
    pat

    10 Jan: Princeton Uni: Spotty coverage: Climate models underestimate cooling effect of daily cloud cycle
    by Morgan Kelly, Princeton Environmental Institute
    Princeton University researchers have found that the climate models scientists use to project future conditions on our planet underestimate the daily cooling effect of clouds, particularly over land. Models tend to factor in too much of the sun’s daily heat, which results in warmer, drier conditions than might actually occur. The researchers found that these inaccuracies did not invalidate climate projections, but did increase the margin of error for understanding how climate change will affect us…

    Porporato and first author Jun Yin, a postdoctoral research associate in civil and environmental engineering, found that not accurately capturing the daily cloud cycle has models showing the sun bombarding Earth with an extra one or two watts of energy per square meter. The increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere since the start of the Industrial Age is estimated to produce an extra 3.7 watts of energy per square meter. “The error here is half of that, so in that sense it becomes substantial,” Porporato said…

    Clouds change from hour to hour and from day to day. Climate models do a good job of capturing the average cloud coverage, Yin said, but they miss important peaks in actual cloud coverage. These peaks can have a dramatic effect on daily conditions, such as in the early afternoon during the hottest part of the day.
    “Climate scientists have the clouds, but they miss the timing,” Porporato said. “There’s a strong sensitivity between the daily cloud cycle and temperature. It’s like a person putting on a blanket at night or using a parasol during the day. If you miss that, it makes a huge difference.”…

    The researchers used satellite images from 1986-2005 to calculate the average diurnal cycles of clouds in each season worldwide. Yin analyzed the cloud coverage at three-hour intervals, looking at more than 6,000 points on the globe measuring 175 miles by 175 miles each.

    Yin and Porporato compared the averages they came up with to those from nine climate models used by climate scientists. The majority of models have the thickest coverage occurring in the morning over the land, rather than in the early afternoon when clouds shield the Earth from the sun’s most intense heat. “A small difference in timing can have a big radiative impact,” Yin said…

    “The global coverage and emphasis on both ‘timing’ and ‘amount’ are notable. As far as I am aware, this is the first study to explore this manifold of models in such a coherent way,” Katul said. “I am sure this type of work will offer new perspectives to improve the representation of clouds. I would not be surprised to see this paper highly cited in future IPCC [U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] reports.”

    The paper, “Diurnal cloud cycle biases in climate models,” was published online Dec. 22 by Nature Communications. The work was supported by the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Agricultural Research Service (no. 58-6408-3-027); the National Science Foundation (grant nos. EAR-1331846, EAR-1316258 and EAR-1338694); and the Duke University Wireless Intelligent Sensor Networks (WISeNet) program (grant no. DGE-1068871).
    https://www.princeton.edu/news/2018/01/10/spotty-coverage-climate-models-underestimate-cooling-effect-daily-cloud-cycle

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  • #
    Ian1946

    O/T but I have been watching this site http://reneweconomy.com.au/nem-watch/ can anyone explain what the “demand that AEMO does not see” mean

    20

    • #
      Robber

      I think it means small scale self-generation – eg rooftop solar, home generators etc.

      20

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Ian1946:
      In the very bottom of the second page of notes:
      Demand (the AEMO doesn’t see):
      It’s irrelevant, from the perspective of this widget, whether an individual’s small-scale solar is exported to the grid, or consumed at home (though we’ve noted here on WattClarity how the incentives vary for each owner of a system).
      The key point, from the perspective of this widget is that the AEMO does not see, in real time, the share of consumption supplied by small-scale PV.  Hence it is listed as such on the widget.

      Elsewhere they explain how they ‘calculate’ this figure. – If Fred Nurk has 3kVa installed and it generates ykVa, then with the total capacity of z kVa installed there will be z divided by 3 and multiplied by y kVa. Note that the figure for z is little more than a guess in most States.

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  • #
    Dave in the States

    We have seen this movie before. Reeducation camps, gulags, work camps, concentration camps, …… —– camps….

    40

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    PeterS

    When the time comes I can see the tables will be turned and we will be exiling the global warming alarmists to extinct volcanoes like this one to receive some exciting hot news.
    Dormant Kadovar volcano awakens, first eruption in known history, P.N.G.

    Note that if the current trend of inactive volcanoes erupting here and there continues, we definitely will be having some serious global cooling sending crop yields plummeting and food prices rocketing.

    30

  • #
    pat

    David Uren has a piece in The Australian today, but it’s behind paywall:

    Coal still underwrites development of our planet
    The Australian-17 hours ago
    The environmentalists’ wish that this trade might simply disappear denies its continuing fundamental importance to global energy consumption and industrial production. Australia’s high standard of living rests in large part on the unique place it holds as the dominant supplier of resources such as coal to …

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  • #
    What Class?

    Sounds like communism to me.

    50

  • #
    Duster

    “…with citizens surrendering control of their lives piecemeal rather than all at once, as trading regimes, international law, lifestyles and business have responded to the growing environmental crisis….”

    Lovely. There is a such sharp odor of 1984 about that quote that it might have Orwell spinning.

    60

  • #
    Crakar24

    Just watched one of those stupid propaganda programs….ACA I think. Anyway they banging on about the hydrogen car and how it produces no ghg’s it only produces wv. I can’t wait for the zombie Apocalypse to start so all these dumb people can get eaten.

    30

  • #
    Velcro

    Exiled to New Zealand’s South Island? Sounds pretty good to me. But then I do live a ferry ride away on the North Island

    40

    • #
      Dennis

      You could buy one of the recently announced Electric Aircraft designed and built in Western Australia to be used to fly one passenger at a time to and from Rottnest Island.

      Can remain flying for one hour with a half hour reserve of electricity supply in the Tesla EV style battery bank.

      10

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    But…but… they only want achieve nobility by making everyone equal. None of this thriving, productivity, and self reliance thing for them or anyone else. We are to be reduced to the level of crushing poverty, in the process of dieing, and eventually dead.

    20

  • #

    As long as those making the nonsensical claims don’t bear the cost of their ideas, they will continue to make nonsensical claims. The best approach is to make these people live up to their standards.

    Oil Companies Should Stop Supplying New York City

    By cutting off Oil to NYC is will provide the needed motivation for either 1) liberals grow up and start living in the real world or 2) they turn to their friends in the Sierra Club and Rockefeller Foundation to provide a viable alternative. In reality, this war on climate change is nothing more than the Tobacco Settlement 2.0. Liberal organization can’t survive on their own, they require looting of the productive sectors of our economy. Liberals depend upon taxes, donations, contributions, fundraising and lawsuits. They reject the Free Market, so they don’t strive to discover commercially viable solutions to today’s problems, they rely on public campaigns to support looting those industries that actually produce something.
    https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2018/01/11/oil-companies-should-stop-supplying-new-york-city/

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  • #

    [...] getting into a Moscow elevator. But one climate doomsayer wants to ship climate chaos skeptics to a Kerguelen Island gulag off Antarctica, where he probably assumes they could watch the entire continent melt – from GHG [...]

    00

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    When they have no argument that changes your mind they resort to threats. Making it a crime to disagree with them goes all the way back to James Hansen testifying before a senate committee and saying certain oil company executives should be prosecuted for — and I quote — “crimes against humanity’. I’ve no doubt that if we skeptics can’t convince the world there will eventually be persecution,excuse me, prosecution of anyone who bucks the party line.

    Self righteousness knows no bounds, it’s unlimited and can do anything it can imagine.

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  • #

    [...] into a Moscow elevator. But one climate doomsayer wants to ship climate chaos skeptics to a Kerguelen Island gulag off Antarctica, where he probably assumes they could watch the entire continent melt – from GHG [...]

    00

  • #

    [...] revolutionary document, yet it is not outside the mainstream – some of the names of those who backed this are [...]

    00

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