JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks

The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Archives

Greenpeace slam Australia’s new Environment Minister (so Frydenberg can’t be all bad)

The one thing Malcolm Turnbull has got right in the last year?    Out with Greg Hunt, and in with Josh Frydenberg.

The new ministry has been announced, as predicted, without magnanimity, wisdom or grace. There is no role for Tony Abbott; Turnbull is still too afraid of him. But Greg Hunt has finally been moved out of the Environment portfolio which can only be a good thing. He has been a key proponent of passionate and pointless action on the weather, and was central to stopping a BOM audit and bringing in a carbon tax. Almost any other minister might actually try to get better science (see here and here), and solve real environmental problems instead of fake ones. Perhaps finally an environment minister may recognise that we need temperature data that can be independently replicated if we are ever going to understand the Australian climate?

The Dept of Environment has been merged with Energy which makes sense for carbon traders and the renewables industry, but perhaps not for the environment.

The new environment minister looks good

The Sydney Morning Herald has put together the praise for Josh Frydenberg:

Former Greens leader Bob Brown said Mr Frydenberg would bury Australia’s environmental hopes and aspirations.

“The pro-nuclear, pro-coal Frydenberg has been whingeing about environmental campaigns against him in his seat of Kooyong,” Mr Brown said.

He has previously supported an end to Victoria’s moratorium on onshore gas exploration and praised Margaret Thatcher’s record on environment and climate change.

Greenpeace campaigner Nikola Casule said Mr Frydenberg’s views on climate change were “an embarrassing relic from a different era”.

RenewEconomy likewise tells me that Frydenberg can’t be too bad:

The Victoria MP has long been a supporter of nuclear energy, and has shown he is also a strong supporter of the coal industry, recently insisting it had a strong future, describing it as a “living, breathing, success story.”

He has been highly critical of Labor’s more ambitious renewable energy targets.

Frydenberg also has strong views on nuclear energy. He made it one of his three major issues when he made his maiden speech to parliament in October, 2010

On coal, and the Adani coal project in Queensland, Frydenberg said: “There is a strong moral case here,” he told ABC’s Insiders program. “Over a billion people don’t have access to electricity. That means that more 2 billion people today are using wood and dung for their cooking.”

Is this a big about face for Turnbull? I doubt it. But I’m hopeful that Frydenberg won’t cut those carbon trading caps so far that Australia gets electricity prices like Germans do. The Safeguard CapN Trade scheme is still a carbon tax, but if the Caps stay high it will not bite much.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.2/10 (85 votes cast)
Greenpeace slam Australia's new Environment Minister (so Frydenberg can't be all bad), 9.2 out of 10 based on 85 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/js9lf7g

144 comments to Greenpeace slam Australia’s new Environment Minister (so Frydenberg can’t be all bad)

  • #
    Diogenese2

    Judging by our experience in the UK this iis the thin edge of a very thick wedge that is going to put the Global Warming Narrative to death in that it is empowering people who have not been seduced by the narrative to make decisions basis on the imperative needs of their subject people over the collective delusion that the narrative has previously induced. This may be off topic but I am sure Tony will appreciate it. The afternoon I took the view from the Great Orme, a high headland on a peninsular overlooking LLandudno on the coast of North Wales which extends form the Wirral Peninsular to Mount Snowden and the Isle of Angelsey, a classic vista on the coast of the UK. To the east the most prominent object was the Gwynt y Mor wind farm, the worlds second largest such, 160 Turbines with a faceplate of 576 MW , defacing this stunning vista but able to power 400k households, one third of the whole of Wales.Today, the hottest day of this summer, they provided nothing . The very few that were langidly turning were probably drawing power and the net output was negative as there was no wind at all. How did I know? Well in Liverpool Bay is
    the Douglas Complex of oil and gas wells and their offshore storage capacity of 870k barrels of oil flared for a few hours a cloud of black acrid smoke beyond the turbines, which cloud stayed intact,
    unmoved for some ours after flaring.
    My mind instantly conjured up a vision, the still, cruciform, silent turbines an obscene image of the rows of war graves I have visited in Normandy and Flanders and the black cloud as the Dark Mark, cast by followers of Lord Voldemort, the death eaters, after committing an atrocity.
    The Colwyn Bay wind farm was built and mostly owned by RWE of Germany. According to Pierre Gosselin the are ” at risk of being the biggest bankcruptcy in German Business history” .l
    (sorry no links , can’t do it on my old I-Pad).
    I think we are about see implosion of the biggest delusion inhuman history.

    441

    • #
      tom0mason

      Diogenese2,

      “The Colwyn Bay wind farm was built and mostly owned by RWE of Germany. According to Pierre Gosselin the are ” at risk of being the biggest bankcruptcy in German Business history” .l
      (sorry no links , can’t do it on my old I-Pad).”

      This one?

      http://notrickszone.com/2016/07/15/german-power-giant-risks-becoming-largest-bankruptcy-in-german-business-history/

      180

    • #
      Robert R

      Diogenese………..an excellent description of the decadent karma that these wind farms pose and represent

      91

    • #
      Annie

      We flew over a huge area of offshore wind turbines yesterday on our way in to LGW. So far as I could see not one of them was turning. I wasn’t following the route so can’t say exactly where these were (I had been watching Eddie The Eagle!).

      41

    • #
      Apoxonbothyourhouses

      Yes 97% (I just made that up) of readers will agree and will giet a warm fuzzy, but pointless, feeling. Unless policy actually changes and that’s never going to happen with Turnbull as PM.

      As to Frydenberg … In his maiden speech Bob Baldwin also espoused nuclear / thorium but when working under Hunt toed the party line to earn brownie points; not that it did him any good. So just because Frydenberg said something doesn’t mean he will act upon his views. Hip pocket 1: political spine 0.

      21

  • #
    James Bradley

    Vote Trump. The world needs the third leg of the trifecta to get up in September to rid us of Climate Scientism.

    402

    • #

      what happens in September?

      31

      • #
        James Bradley

        Dunno – arbitrarily selected month – when I will vote for TRUMP.

        142

        • #
          Gordon

          If I could I would also vote for Trump, but alas I am not allowed to. We NEED Trump, he is the only one that will stop this madness!

          71

          • #
            William

            Since the dead normally vote, and vote often, in American elections, I don’t see why you can’t.
            Of course, they usually vote Democrat. This could be a problem.

            40

            • #
              Rereke Whakaaro

              [the dead] usually vote Democrat

              This indeed, could be a problem. I am left wondering which is the cause, and which is the effect.

              60

              • #
                Russ Wood

                On cause and effect, my son has recently downloaded the first episodes of a new USA TV series “Braindead”. Apparently, the main thread is that when small alien thingys eat someone’s brain, they turn into Republicans. Do you see yet more ‘MSM effect’?

                10

        • #
          aussiepete

          Whatever, the sooner the better.

          20

  • #
    Yonniestone

    I never thought we’d see sceptics and warmists display the same behaviour,

    Frydenberg and Greenpeace both going nuclear.

    400

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Tch! Tch! Tch!

      I’ll remind everybody here that the opposition to nuclear power generation was never founded in science. It was whipped up from the 1960s on by the friends of Communism, for the purpose of hindering western nations in the cold war nuclear arms race.

      There was no criticism of Soviet nuclear power until the Chernobyl disaster, by which time Communism had just about worn out its welcome in the Soviet Union. Still alive and kicking though in the sheltered workshops of The Greens and the ALP.

      162

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Well at least the old Soviets buried Chernobyl in cement ..not like the Japs left Fukushima delivering its toxic waste (incl Plutonium, which was refined in secret by Japan) into the Pacific and still is.

        210

        • #
          turnedoutnice

          Their plutonium comes from decommissioned UK nuclear weapons and Japanese waste nuclear fuel. It’s a variant of ‘Mixed Oxide’ fuel: MOX: http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/fuel-recycling/mixed-oxide-fuel-mox.aspx

          It’spresently shipped there and waste rods shipped back by a specially designed ship with armed guard and specialised artillery to counter terrorists and pirates. No doubt it liaises with a patrolling nuclear attack submarine as well.

          The new Japanese reprocessing plant at Rokkasho will allow them to reprocess their nuclear waste: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/fukushima-anniversary/japan-producing-huge-lightly-guarded-stockpile-plutonium-n49376

          20

        • #
          Lawrie

          You’ve been listening to Helen Caldicott who is in the same league as Tim Flannery for getting forecasts horribly wrong. She also specialises in absolute BS regarding Nuclear power.

          I suspect the CFMEU and the ALP and the ABC have all invested heavily in renewable energy having swallowed the cool aid and all stand to lose a great deal of money when the industry finally goes belly up. Why would the Greens and Andrews even contemplate increasing wind power in Victoria when the SA experience shouts loudly that IT JUST DOES NOT WORK? There is a payoff and a big one at that but only if the scam continues.

          Trump says he will shut down the EPA as a first step. I suspect he will save some dough by stopping lots of grants. Maybe Malcolm could learn from him. Nah. Malcolm is infallible.

          11

      • #

        There was no criticism of Soviet nuclear power until the Chernobyl disaster

        is a made up factoid with no basis.

        10

    • #
      turnedoutnice

      Nah! Frydenberg clear, Greenpeace unclear……:o)

      51

  • #
    Manfred

    Greenpeace slam Australia’s new Environment Minister

    A day of reckoning to come. That day when the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists knock at the front door of Greenpus. The slamming should be spectacular.

    270

    • #
      Ross

      Nice dream Manfred, but I can’t see it happening. I think many in the ICIJ would be huge GP supporters.

      30

  • #
    PeterPetrum

    I wrote to Frydenberg today as soon as I heard of his appointment, wished him luck (of course) and suggested that he might like to sponsor serious debate between the warmist camp and the serious and well qualified sceptics, to bring the issue into the open without claims of “deniers” being brought against us. Not hopeful, but you never know.

    452

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      I’ll hold off on my letter of congratulations, Peter, until I see the colour of his commitment.

      Poor young Josh doesn’t quite know what’s about to hit him. He’ll be duchessed and glad-handed by all the sycophants and crawling lobbyists on one hand and castigated by the loonies on the other.

      You see, ministers invariably get captured by their Department and its constituency.

      The test of his commitment will be in seeing him cut the size of the Department by 15% within 12 months and reduce all program costs by 25% in the next (2017-18) Budget.

      But I do wish him all the best, nevertheless.

      80

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Let me give you an example of what needs to be done.

        Here we have the resources provided to the Department for the Environment in 2014-15 financial year:

        Department of the Environment.

        Expenses for outcomes: 2014-15

        Average staffing level – programme 1.0 = 1039
        Average staffing level – programme 2.0 = 202
        Average staffing level – programme 3.0 = 370
        Average staffing level – programme 4.0 = 339

        Total average staffing level 1,950

        Total expenses for Outcome 1 = $317,084,000
        Total expenses for Outcome 2 = $190,023,000
        Total expenses for Outcome 3 = $67,369,000
        Total expenses for Outcome 4 = $692,621,000

        Total expenses $1,267,097,000

        Appendix 2. Annual Report 2014–2015. Page 247.

        https://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/34f17bb2-3ccb-4bc6-8d3d-2f1d1485c778/files/14-15-annrep-appendices.pdf

        That’s $1.267 billion of outlays and a total of 1,950 staff – all public servants.

        Now, chopping staff numbers by 15% saves the salary and on-costs of 292 public servants; while chopping 25% of program costs saves $316 million.

        Given the size of the projected Budget deficit for the Turnbull Commonwealth Government in 2016-17 is huge ($37.1 billion) you can see that something needs to be done. And fast.

        Over to you Mr Frydenberg.

        100

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          Do we know what programmes 1 through 4, actually are? Do they have real names and purposes? Or are they merely cyphers, to give cause to people looking earnest and busy, and costing one and a quarter billion?

          50

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Rereke,

            It’s all there in the URL I posted at 5.1.1

            Here for example are two of the five outcomes:

            Outcome 1 Clean land:

            Conserve, protect and sustainably manage Australia’s biodiversity, ecosystems, environment and heritage through research, information management,supporting natural resource management, establishing and managing Commonwealth Protected areas, and reducing and regulating the use of pollutants and hazardous substances.

            Programme 1.1: Sustainable Management of Natural Resources and the Environment
            Programme 1.2: Environmental Information and Research
            Programme 1.3: Carbon Pollution Reduction- Land Sector Initiatives
            Programme 1.4: Conservation of Australia’s Heritage and Environment
            Programme 1.5: Environmental Regulation
            Programme 1.6: Management of Hazardous Wastes, Substances and Pollutants

            Outcome 2 Clean air:

            Reduce Australia’s greenhouse gas emissions, adapt to the impacts of climate change and contribute to the negotiation of an effective global solution to climate change, through developing and implementing a national response to climate change.

            Programme 2.1: Reducing Australia’s Greenhouse Gas Emissions
            Programme 2.2: Adapting to Climate Change

            You can see that so much of what they do is make work and make work for others (regulation).

            It’s enough to choke a brown dog.

            110

            • #
              Rereke Whakaaro

              My apologies, Sam.

              For some reason, your link did not show up on the browser I was using at the time (something weird, in the browser settings in the local library).

              Thank you for the extended explanation.

              60

            • #
              betapug

              “Information Management”….I like that…nice ring to it.

              40

    • #
      Garry

      What’s the bet he just folds his cards and plays the Turnbull-directed hand? Sorry, but I have no faith left in career politicians.

      My prediction is that he will be a compliant puppy who toes the line to keep his future prospects in the party machine on track. I have seen no mongrel in him to indicate that he will kick against the goads, regardless of his personal views.

      I hope I am wrong.

      30

  • #
    john of sunbury

    I read Josh’s maiden speech back in 2010 and sent him an email letting him know how much I liked it and that I would follow his progress with interest. I got a phone call from him maybe six months later apologizing for not replying to my note and explaining that my email had been caught in a spam filter. That little gesture impressed me further. A proper (conservative) Liberal I think.

    341

    • #
      Dennis

      I have exchanged emails with Josh and he explained that he did not have the time to reply to all correspondence from people who are not constituents or inquiring about matters relating to his portfolio. But he did address of of my comments.

      161

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      On that subject, before Malcolm Turnbull became a shadow minister in the Howard government, which greatly increased his workload, an email to his parliamentary address between 5 am and a quarter to seven would bring an immediate response. And I wasn’t in his electorate.

      20

  • #

    Former Greens leader Bob Brown …Frydenberg has been whingeing about environmental campaigns against him…

    Whingeing? Who are the biggest whingers on the planet?

    230

  • #
    Robert O

    It seems to me that people such as Josh Frydenburg are the future for the Liberals, articulate and intelligent, and hopefully wise enough to negotiate his way through the pressures of the various lobbyists and dogmatists.

    As Minister in charge of the energy portfolio he will have to reconcile as to how to satisfy the Minister Pyne for S.Aust (Defence Procurement) as to the large amounts of electricity required to build the ships and submarines with what little that comes from their subsidised wind turbines. Perhaps a 3 or 4 day day week should be introduced so that when their production drops below 20% the welding and steel production has to stop leaving enough for the residents of Adelaide.

    As Minister for the Environment perhaps he could also initiate an inquiry into the basic premise of the AGW hypothesis to see if there is any validity to the models predicting temperatures increasing when the actual measurements do not reflect this.

    211

    • #

      Robert O July 19, 2016 at 7:59 am · Reply

      “It seems to me that people such as Josh Frydenburg are the future for the Liberals, articulate and intelligent, and hopefully wise enough to negotiate his way through the pressures of the various lobbyists and dogmatists.”

      “As Minister in charge of the energy portfolio he will have to reconcile as to how to satisfy the Minister Pyne for S.Aust (Defence Procurement) as to the large amounts of electricity required to build the ships and submarines with what little that comes from their subsidised wind turbines. Perhaps a 3 or 4 day day week should be introduced so that when their production drops below 20% the welding and steel production has to stop leaving enough for the residents of Adelaide.”

      Good point! Subsidies for Barley, Hops, and Breweries!
      the AU govment can pretend to pay Steelworkers, and the Steelworkers can pretend to work. Just like China.
      Check with TonyfromOZ. Produce those Westinghouse/Toshiba SMRs (AP1000) from local matter! Have many bobbing about in estuaries near AU! Everyone wants one or many! Delivered via RU, US, submarine to your doorstep within days!
      All the best! -will-

      51

  • #
    el gordo

    There are only 1.3 billion people living in India so I’m criticising Frydenberg’s comment that more than “2 billion people today are using wood and dung for their cooking.”

    Also I’m quite happy to see Adani pack his bags and clear out.

    ‘With one court case yet to be heard in the Federal Court, and at least two groups threatening High Court action, Mr Adani warned he could not wait indefinitely. The self-made billionaire, who plans to export up to 60,000 tonnes a year of Australian coal through the Great Barrier Reef, said he was already scouting alternatives to feed his power stations in India.

    “You can’t continue just holding,” he said at the headquarters of his $US26 billion ($36bn) energy and infrastructure conglomerate in Ahmedabad, northwest India. “I have been really disappointed that things have got too delayed.”

    Oz / June 4 2016

    Apart from that I congratulate the new minister and respectfully suggest a BoM audit should be on his list of priorities.

    66

    • #
      ianl8888

      Also I’m quite happy to see Adani pack his bags and clear out

      Why ?

      60

      • #
        el gordo

        There is better value in agricultural land going forward.

        https://www.quandl.com/data/ODA/PCOALAU_USD-Coal-Price

        15

        • #
          Geoff Sherrington

          El Gordo,
          The area of land affected by mining is very small compared to agricultural and after mining it is restored for agriculture.
          Look at the economics in terms of a $ return per sq km. Most mines take up less than 10 sq km but produce hundreds of millions of $ over 20 years roughly. Crop production is one to three orders of magnitude below this return.
          It is simply a matter of making the best use of nature’s endowments.
          Geoff

          140

          • #
            el gordo

            Yes but coal prices are low so we should wait until China builds the state of the art power stations in darkest Africa.

            Then of course there would be a political cost if it went ahead now, which suggests a prudent approach is required. No need for a fire sale.

            11

          • #
            Bill Burrows

            Indeed Geoff/El Gordo – back before the Pilbara got going gang busters one wag noted that the area covered by pubs in Australia exceeded that occupied by mines (would have been before breathalysers impacted imbibing habits too?). The Galilee basin (the site of Adani’s & Gina Rinehart’s coal mining ambitions) is known by ecologists as the “Desert Uplands”. This is not because of its ‘dryness’ (although it has a semi-arid climate) but because it has very poor, nutrient deficient sandy soils. In other words it is quite unsuited to conventional agriculture and is used to graze beef cattle at very low carrying capacity. [I’ll need to live for another 50+ years before being able to endorse your confidence in mine rehabilitation. However my father was instrumental in facilitating the first coal exports from Queensland to (believe it or not – Victoria!) in the early 1950′s. Further, as a Queensland old timer I have no doubt that coal mining and its exports transformed the State’s economy and opened up the Central Queensland bush on both very good and poorer ‘agricultural’ landscapes – and through its contribution to infrastructure (roads, railways and towns) made the surrounding agriculture more profitable too.

            50

            • #
              el gordo

              Thanks Bill, that settles that.

              There is no good reason not to mine, so if the court settles in favor of Adani then the battle lines will be fought along transporting it through the GBR.

              10

    • #
      Analitik

      The poor outside India don’t count?
      There are GERMANS using wood fired heater and cooking ranges now due to their ridiculous electricity prices due to Die Energiewende.

      I’m sure Frydenberg was referring to more than just India as potential markets for our coal.

      170

    • #
      Ross

      What about the millions of Africans, el gordo ?

      110

      • #
        el gordo

        The Chinese have to build coal fired power stations throughout Africa before demand for our coal increases, lets keep the resource in the ground until that time arrives.

        12

        • #

          Ross mean (I think) that dung and wood are not just used by Indians

          42

        • #
          ianl8888

          The African states have huge-enough coal deposits of their own. South African mines export to the EU and Israel amongst other places. They have been in direct competition with Aus exporters.

          I do dislike it when people opine about mining when they know absolutely nothing factual about it.

          Could it be, one wonders, that you are a closet coal mine hater, too timid to say so outright ? Surely not.

          30

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Where did you get 60,000 tonnes from?
      That’s about 1,100 tonnes per week. . .
      Doesn’t sound a lot to me!
      GeoffW

      20

      • #
        • #
          Geoffrey Williams

          Adani website says peak capacity will be 60MMTPA.
          Slight difference?!
          GeoffW

          40

          • #
            el gordo

            Good catch.

            10

            • #
              Geoffrey Williams

              No worries – I used to work at a stockpile site in the Hunter Valley. Conveyors then were flat out doing 2000 tph to the stockpile so I have a feel for coal qty’s.
              GeoffW

              40

              • #
                ianl8888

                Yes, those of us who have been (still are ?) actually in the industry have a hard time occasionally staying civil to ignorant criticisms.

                The issue with Adani is that its’ product is slated for Indian power stations. The Indian management would like to control the whole economic train and have paid enormous sums of money to do that. It’s also true that initial advice to Adani, long ago and prior to commitment, was that green opposition would be ferocious (nothing clever there, just a statement of the bleeding obvious).

                If Adani cannot in the end have the mine operating as it wishes (a real possibility), it will cut its’ losses as best it can and source mines and supply elsewhere. Windmills and sunshiney stuff won’t cut it, so the quest goes on.

                30

    • #
      Asp

      Some time ago, while working in a coal mine in Central Queensland, we came up with the following simple comparison:

      Option 1. Brigalow Country used for cattle grazing: $300 per ha, annual income ( @ 10% of value), $30 per ha maybe.

      Option 2. Brigalow Country used for coal mining: $300 per ha, income $1,300,000 per ha

      Please choose carefully!

      These numbers maybe somewhat dated, but I would expect that such potential land use comparisons would still hold.

      There are obviously many other aspects that ultimately affect land use decisions, but the incentive to mine is certainly there.

      70

      • #
        ianl8888

        Further, once the seams are mined out, exhausted, rehab of the land allows cattle grazing to re-commence.

        Sounds like win-win, and used to work like that. Not now, too many city greenies interfering.

        30

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      There are only 1.3 billion people living in India so I’m criticising Frydenberg’s comment that more than “2 billion people today are using wood and dung for their cooking.”

      I suspect that Frydenberg was referring to the entire Indian subcontinent. From that perspective, 2 billion would be a reasonable estimate.

      30

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘The good news is that Greg Hunt is no longer the Environment Minister, stripped of the title and bumped across to the position of Industry, Innovation, and Science, as part of Malcolm Turnbull’s first post-election Cabinet reshuffle.

    ‘The bad news is the name of the man who will replace him.’

    Max Chalmers / New Matilda

    43

    • #
      Dennis

      Greg Hunt was a leading opponent of the proposal to conduct due diligence at the BoM when PM Abbott put it to Cabinet.

      110

      • #
        el gordo

        Yeah, the audit is a must if Turnbull hopes to get us back on side. Frydenberg once made a joke on sea level rise which made me chuckle, there is something of the Keating style about him.

        Exciting times ahead.

        51

  • #
    PeterS

    Is this a big about face for Turnbull? I doubt it.

    I doubt it too, not just in terms of the AGW scam but also the wider picture regarding a change of face from Turnbull and a return to conservative politics. Let’s wait and see how the polls go over the next year or two now that we have so much focus on them thee days and treat them almost as important as the election. There is every likelihood the opposition will put the LNP through he cleaners, unfortunately, especially if Turnbull keeps up his pathetic performance. I hope by then it won’t be too late to replace Turnbull, provided the party have the guts and the intelligence to do so, which I doubt. Personally I think the party is doomed longer term for this country. It’s aloof, too slow to make the right decisions and not very clever, unlike the parties that were lead by Howard and Hawke. I think we will need a new major party longer term.

    80

  • #
    handjive

    When a pass is a fail.

    Caution is advised when the Greenpeace Gorilla starts flinging faeces.

    Bush has to tackle global warming, now
    Published: Friday, 2 February 2007
    Author: Josh Frydenberg
    Publication: The Age

    “It is to be hoped that his recent comments are the start of an ambitious new agenda of initiatives that seek to reduce carbon dioxide emissions using new technologies and market-based mechanisms.
    Climate change is not and has never been a partisan issue.
    Indeed, one of the strongest and early advocates of preventive measures was Margaret Thatcher, a doyen of conservatism.

    It is to be hoped that his recent comments are the start of an ambitious new agenda of initiatives that seek to reduce carbon dioxide emissions using new technologies and market-based mechanisms.”
    ~ ~ ~
    Josh fails to mention that Thatcher later moved from Alarmist to Skeptic with-in a decade.

    2016 election, and Josh is ‘all for coal’:

    Frydenberg responded to the Coalition’s poor environmental score by stating Australia was transitioning to renewable energy and the government had set up a $1bn
    innovation fund for renewable energy.”
    . . .
    Applying *The Skeptic Test; ‘has the politician ever believed in global warming, or supported the carbon tax, or a carbon-constrained economy’, Josh Frydenberg passes with flying green colours, and so, fails.

    Again, applying skeptic gradings, Josh Frydenberg falls into the category of ‘No Hope’; They are either too stupid or incompetent to be taken seriously.

    *The Skeptic Test is derived from the David Archibald’s speech at Sydney Anti-Carbon (sic) Tax Rally, 2012.

    92

    • #

      Handjive, true and interesting, but don’t forget that I fail the skeptic test too if you go back far enough.

      ACF actively targeted Frydenberg in this election because his comments about supporting coal were so “appalling”.

      Sometimes being a target of the green intimidation and namecalling pushes a fence-sitter into the skeptic camp.

      170

  • #
    Ruairi

    The public don’t want to be schooled,
    By the Greens, on how power is fueled,
    As they’d rather rely,
    On a constant supply,
    Whether climate has warmed or has cooled.

    270

  • #
    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I’d have to look at the figures, but there is an up side ( assuming you wisely steer clear of LiIon batteries for domestic energy storage …) namely that the price of solar panels is coming down rapidly, and the push to become largely almost self sufficient in terms of power ( through storage of electricity in batteries ) is as Pooh Bear would say A Very Good Thing….

      I think too the bill shock could be largely avoided through the solar-battery route, as electricity providers will bump power costs up thanks to Malcoolms “SafeGuard” carbon-tax-but-we-cant-call-it-that carbox tax on polluters….that said, it should also serve as a rude reality check of how flaky the alt. energy “industry” is…..

      21

  • #
    Dennis

    How many years of planning does it take to construct new power stations, and then for construction to be completed?

    At this time in Australia coal fired and gas fired power stations are being abandoned, shut down, apparently in favour of wind turbines and solar power systems mainly. But countries that have many years more experience with rising electricity costs and supply problems are returning to fossil fuel power stations and are abandoning green energy subsidies.

    Will Australian economic prosperity continue to stagger or will our governments finally abandon international politics of climate change agenda and act like our representatives doing what is right for us?

    80

    • #
      Analitik

      Looking at the following, the 600-megawatt, ultra-supercritical, John W. Turk, Jr. Power Plant in Arkansas took 5 years to build despite some delays. Approval appears to have taken 2 years
      https://www.swepco.com/info/projects/turkplant/NewsReleases.aspx

      This demonstrates what is possible, even in a highly regulated Western country. In China and India, I would expect both processes to be faster.

      71

      • #

        That 7 years lead in for a power plant at (x) site, from thought bubble proposal to actual power delivery is around the average, and that’s if everything falls into place as it arises.

        That is virtually no different no matter what sort of power plant it is. The quickest would be for a gas fired plant, and the slowest would be for a nuclear power plant.

        That also applies for ANY type of renewable power plant as well.

        Which sort of places into perspective any claim from any party that they will have 40%, 50%, 100% renewables by even 2030, as it effectively means that at least half of any prospective plants would need to be in planning RIGHT NOW, and the remainder within a couple of years.

        Coopers Gap Wind Plant proposal was first mooted in 2005, and they still haven’t turned a sod of dirt for construction. (and that’s not one in isolation, as most are similar)

        Tony.

        110

        • #
          bobl

          Actually Diesel is fastest, roll it up in a container hook it up, fill up the tank and let her rip.

          30

      • #
        ianl8888

        In China and India, I would expect both processes to be faster

        And indeed they are. Some years ago, an Indian mining organisation had me write a due diligence report on a closed mine in southern NSW with a view to them purchasing and re-opening it. My major concern was construction of a needed washplant as this is notoriously difficult and expensive to achieve approvals for in Aus (>7-8 years).

        Not to worry. They built the washplant in India in two years and actually *ship* the raw, mined product complete with waste rock and water ! That is, it’s cheaper to pay shipping on waste than build a washplant in Aus. Amazing ! And they showed me the spreadsheets with the figures to demonstrate it.

        50

  • #
    TdeF

    Josh could start with educating the public, countering the utterly crazy stories from Greenpeace, the Greens, WWF and the Green media.

    CO2 does not harm the environment. It is as essential for life on earth as fresh water and there is precious little fresh water too.

    Only 2% of the water is fresh and most of that is in Antarctica, Greenland, Lake Baikal and the Great Lakes. Rivers and dams are tiny. So we have only 2% of 2% fresh water or 0.04%, the same as CO2. So we have an exactly equal shortage of fresh water and CO2.

    Egypt build the new Aswan dam as the British one contained only 1 year of water. The new dam held ten years. That is because for 1600 years of continuous records, the 11 year cycle of flood and drought was well know. What are we in Australia doing to drought proof this country? Nothing. So build the dams, build the pipelines, move water around. Prepare for the drought to come.

    On Nuclear power, amazingly we do not have a single nuclear power generator. Tiny Slovakia has four. Now South Australia wants to store nuclear waste because they are broke and want to close their last coal fired power station but do not want Nuclear power. Now who’s being silly?

    Windmills are useless. Josh, just tell people there is money in building dams and nuclear power stations but both will last for centuries. Windmills have the lifespan of your PC and are disposable, not serviceable.

    182

    • #
      TdeF

      I just read that South Australia has closed their only coal fired power station. They are now at the mercy of the wind and paying twice the National price for power and 30× that for spot prices. Madness. Back to nature baking in the sun. Who needs electrical power anyway?

      141

      • #
        Analitik

        I just read that South Australia has closed their only coal fired power station

        Dude, where have you been? The closure of Northern and its accompanying coal mine at Leigh Creek was a topic of discussion for quite a few months prior to its closure in May. The usual suspects, RobertO, Graeme No3, TonyFromOz, Mikky etc (even myself) posted many comments on the consequences which are now coming to pass.

        RenewEconomy has posted up a fantasy article that I linked to in the previous thread
        How wind and solar removed major price spikes in South Australia
        I have made comments over there about the incorrect/misleading claims but they have been disappeared by Giles and his crew.

        121

        • #
          TdeF

          Floating down the Volga.

          50

        • #
          TdeF

          Besides, the consequences of this decision, like that to close the Gas Turbine in the Tamar valley, are just becoming obvious to everyone. Some people only learn by their mistakes and are doomed to repeat them.

          Or a classic Oscar Wilde quote “Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught.”

          60

        • #
          Analitik

          On lunch break, so I ventured back to RenewEconomy to see how the How wind and solar removed major price spikes in South Australia comments were going.

          There was a comment that end with the questions

          Where was the regulator, when the decision by gas gen owners to crank up the volts was being made? They appear to be missing in action. Spot price models are pretty noisy. Wouldn’t it be better to drive them via regulation into more stable pricing modes, and operate steady-state?

          I’ve posted my reply below as I’m certain it will be “disappeared” – and I may soon get banned.

          ============

          Where was the regulator when wind turbines were added to the grid and allowed to produce power power whenever conditions allowed and still get paid the same rate without being affected by market pricing?

          And where was the regulator when wind turbines were added to the grid and allowed to NOT produce power power whenever conditions were not conducive?

          Same questions apply for solar.

          The problem is that the renewable generators bypass the “day ahead” market bids placed by the “normal” electricity sources so it doesn’t pay for all the based load generators to run because their output may not be needed or may need to be paid for it’s generation (since viable storage for the quantities we are talking about do not exist in Sth Aust).

          What ends up happening is that enough baseload generators bid in for around the AVERAGE of the wind farms’ output for the times of day and if the wind output is less than this, then peaking plants start coming on-line. Naturally, the peaking plants are not as efficient to run (mainly as consequence of their fast start and ramping ability but also because they are not continuously operated) so their bid price is higher. At the very high end are small peaking plants built for very occasional use so they have a very high bid price to cover the fact that they are (normally) rarely used.

          The A$14,000 MWh rate is the highest bid price allowed by the national authority so the government actually caps the price below what it could be for pure market rates

          You need to read how electricity markets actually work – the system was designed for competitive but profitable operations to meet varying demand without gaming the price (which is still possible if enough generators get together but they get investigated and fined). The renewable generators are distorting the market by their ability to barge in whenever they are producing and get paid fixed rates that bear no relation to market pricing, This leads to massive unplanned and sudden variations in the requirement for normal generation making the overall market much more volatile. To hedge against this, most generators have to increase their bid prices, which is what is part of the issue driving up the retail costs.

          The other is that the guaranteed prices paid to the renewable generators mean that when the market prices are very low which occurs when demand is low relative to supply. It is almost always when the renewable generators are generating lots of power that market prices drop (even into negative) but the wholesalers don’t get the benefit of the low market price since they are forced, by regulation, to buy all renewable generated power when available and it is at these times that there is plenty of it.

          So when the wind blows hard and the sun shines, the market price is low, crippling the economics of normal generators yet the wholesalers have to pay the renewable generators their guaranteed rate. Then when the wind isn’t blowing, normal baseload generation is short and peakers come on line and the wholesalers have to pay the current, high market rate. The retail customers then cop it as the wholesalers pass on the costs in their rates.

          Where was the regulator indeed!

          210

          • #
            ianl8888

            The renewable generators are distorting the market by their ability to barge in whenever they are producing and get paid fixed rates that bear no relation to market pricing

            Yes, very well put. I agree that you will likely be banned. Such is life, Cassandra opines.

            50

      • #
        TdeF

        However they can build the submarines the old fashioned way and leave their kettles to boil outside in the sunniest skies in the world. South Australian can save on transport by shutting industry, but Unions have already driven the car manufacturers out of Australia. The good side is that with the highest unemployment in the country and like Tasmania soon every home, factory, office and hospital will need an expensive diesel generator to charge their phones, run their laptops and their electric cars. Welcome to the new Green world of terrible heat and yellow smog on those still, baking Adelaide summer days when there is a temperature inversion and the wind does not raise a ripple on the ocean.

        191

        • #
          Dennis

          Like Tasmania was doing suffering Labor Green governments South Australia under hard Labor will continue to expect larger population states to subsidise them via Canberra.

          The problem in SA being that there is a gerrymander, electoral boundaries fixed so that voting well above fifty per cent is required to change local members.

          I often think about the handicaps our political class impose on our economic prosperity and society in general. And the situation seems to worsen by the decade.

          150

    • #
      Robert O

      It really comes down to the lack of worldliness of the café latte sipping folk from the inner city who support the greens. Their knowledge of basic science is pretty limited, believe that locking up forests in world heritage areas and national parks will protect the forests though they are unlikely to regenerate, that carbon dioxide is a pollutant and that renewable energy is capable of powering this country! They are totally wrong on all these points, and one would think they would support birdlife from these rotating slicers.

      111

      • #
        Dennis

        Socialism masquerading as environmentalism – PM Tony Abbott 2015

        131

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Yes although I think these folk are of the naturally self-limiting variety, namely in a grid-down situation their survival rate would be close to zero as they lack any form of connected-with-real-world understanding of how stuff actually works ( like sanitation, disease, hunting, food storage & prep, urban recon & situational awareness etc. )

        80

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          … in a grid-down situation their survival rate would be close to zero …

          But who is it, that will have to clean up all of the mess? I have been in disaster zones, where the infrastructure has collapsed. Only the flys benefit.

          50

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        They’re not too flash with arithmetic either.

        40

    • #
      Peter C

      Prepare for the Drought to Come

      How should we do that?

      Who remembers this from Sunday School;
      “Joseph Interprets Pharaoh’s Dreams
      …26″The seven good cows are seven years; and the seven good ears are seven years; the dreams are one and the same. 27″The seven lean and ugly cows that came up after them are seven years, and the seven thin ears scorched by the east wind will be seven years of famine. 28″It is as I have spoken to Pharaoh: God has shown to Pharaoh what He is about to do.…”

      30

  • #

    Maybe Malcolm feels that a background involving Harvard and Deutsche Bank is enough to ensure that Josh will have the right Posh/Green/Left instincts in a crunch. One always expects a banker to see the advantages of trafficking in a tiny fraction of thin air. That’s even better than Big Soda charging for tap water with “mountain” or “spring” on a blue label.

    But maybe Josh has other instincts Malcolm doesn’t know about, like patriotism and commonsense. Let’s hope.

    101

  • #
    Egor TheOne

    Who cares what the Marxist conglomerate (Greenpeace) says?

    The entire organization should be made to work in a coal mine for life!

    Bob (new world disorder) Brown should go back to his true calling …tree hugging….better being not seen or heard.

    As for Frydenberg, better him than Hunt, but as long as the TurdFull is PM, I remain doubtful of any significant gains against the CAGW global scam.

    If ‘the Donald’ becomes President, only then will the tables turn significantly, and then others will follow suit and expose the CAGW for the scam it is.

    And then of course there is Pauline Hanson’s One Nation who is our strongest movement here against the CAGW BS…..good on her … a true Australian, unlike the Marxist greens that pretend to be!

    112

  • #

    There’s something inherently disheartening in all this, well, for me anyway.

    Every time a new guy comes along, (in this case, Josh Frydenberg) I keep hoping to myself that this is the one, and I note with expectation that he’s also got the Energy Portfolio as well in his Ministry.

    The hope for me with each new guy, no matter where or in whatever Country, is that this is finally someone who will explain rationally, in a manner which people can understand, that Renewables just cannot do what is claimed, supply power that will lead to the closure of coal fired power, and in so doing, support the fact that coal fired power is in fact the only correct answer.

    Every time, I’m disappointed.

    When I started out doing this, more than eight and a half years ago now, I just knew I was wrong. Even with my background in the electrical trade, I knew I had to be wrong, because I couldn’t find, anywhere, any person who could see what I was seeing, so that led me to doubt that I was in fact wrong, that there was something I was missing.

    When I actually started to write Posts on just what I was finding, it was with trepidation and fear, the fear of being found out, that someone would point out what I was missing, and I’d then look a bit foolish, and sink back into the anonymity of the background, chastened. I felt somewhat safe in the knowledge that, hey, it was really only a Blogging site, and a seemingly obscure one at that, on the other side of the World to where I was living, safely thinking that being a blogging site, no one would ever read it anyway, so when I was found out, then it wouldn’t be, umm, the end of the World for me.

    I took my heart in my hand with those first agonising Posts on the subject, and what that did was to spur me on to looking deeper and deeper in an effort to find why no one else was seeing what I was seeing.

    Each time I found something new, I saved the link, so that my Bookmarks tab contains more than 250 links ….. just for the Electrical Power Folio (and its sub Folios) alone.

    What I did find strengthened everything I had already found, and that was a source of immense relief, and satisfaction.

    It was also puzzling, that almost no one else was finding what I was.

    Knowing now that I was correct, all I had to do was wait for someone in a position of power to find out, and then to begin the process of explanation.

    Eight years later, and no one.

    I move around the sites explaining it in a manner as rationally as I can. Some people see it, most don’t, preferring to believe that they (Renewables) are the great saviour.

    I’m now almost resigned to the fact that they are going to get away with it, because now, no one is game enough to find out about them, let alone to attempt to go against the trend and actually explain why they are such a failure at doing their main task, supplying electrical power on the scale, and the time basis required.

    I’m at the point now, where I’m beginning to realise that the ONLY way renewables will be found out is with a catastrophic failure of a major power grid, which will then force those investigating to ask the correct questions. That of itself is the most disheartening thing for me, that it will take something like this for the truth to come out.

    With each new guy who comes along, I have hope, but more often than not, I end up deflated.

    Some of you will think that I’m up myself with a sense of my own importance, that I am somehow a fount of true knowledge on power generation.

    Not true, and hey, I don’t really care. I know what I know, and I know it’s right.

    Let’s hope Josh Frydenberg starts to ask the ….. right questions.

    Tony.

    381

    • #
      Analitik

      We all (or many of us, anyay) share your pain on this site, Tony. And I’ve stated the same thing about a major grid catastrophe (or 2) needing to occur before the masses realize they’ve been sold a set of outright lies by the renewables industry. But fear, not – those collapses are imminent – within the next 6 months in California, Scotland and/or South Australia by my reckoning.

      Maybe try contacting Josh Frydenberg via his site – http://www.joshfrydenberg.com.au/guest/contact.aspx

      I’m going to call to see if there is any possibility of speaking and presenting in person to him.

      221

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Agreed…it will only be when people are starving and disease is rife due to lack of sanitation that they will realise its a con.

        Unfortunately, with the proliferation of articially intellectually enhanced humans ( i.e. via Dr Google on thier smart phone ) they reckon they are too clever by half, and forget it all comes back to 1st Principles and common sense….no power = no food/no sanitation/ lots of disease.

        One EMP will send us back to the 1800s, and it will be anarchy…..

        130

      • #
        Analitik

        OK, a bit of a rant here.

        Why is everyone just telling Anton “Don’t give up, Tony. Keep trying, Tony”?

        Everyone here who isn’t a troll should be contacting Josh Frydenberg on some way to express their scepticism of CAGW and disapproval of renewable generators. If you can articulate a good argument for either position, that’s a bonus but at least voice your opinion.

        The web page I linked is a good enough start point.

        GetUp! can galvanise their members to back stupid notions. We should be willing to match their effort for something we truly believe in.

        I said in the previous thread that I thought outside Treasury, Frydenberg had the critical ministry for the government’s term. He NEEDS to hear us if we want him to act in Australia’s best interests.
        /Rant

        70

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Hey Tony, whenever I’ve read your posts here, I like the fact its all bolted down with common sense and calculations – stuff we can actually use.

      Keep it up, the people that can think will always find your stuff valuable.

      Those who dont find it valuable will likely prove to be cannon fodder eventually…

      211

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Tony, I can only say that myself and the rest of us on this site feel your honest sentiments and are 100% behind you. We live in hope that those in government will listen, undestand the reality and provide this country with a sustainable fossil fueled energy system. Wind and solar are only expensive part-time energy sources. As such they should not be subsidized by government / taxpayers.
      GeoffW

      150

    • #
      Dennis

      The problem is that with the best of intentions and knowledge to back it cabinet ministers are one voice in a cabinet, a prime minister is one voice too, and democratic voting can result in the best of intentions being crushed by closed minds and self interest.

      Ask Tony Abbott.

      130

    • #
      stan stendera

      Tony, do not despair I, and I expect many others have heard you. Those that have heard you are part of the great pantheon of the minor heroes of the fight against what has been called the green blob. We vote, we argue against the folly, and we are here on JoNova, WUWT, and others. Thank you for your service.

      180

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Yep.

      But keep going Tony. Don’t stop.

      Part of the problem is that when the country gets a parliamentarian into a position where we think they could do something about the unscientific and economically irrational climate (CO2) claptrap, they make the same-old-same-old mistake. They tend to come out and say what we want to hear. And it’s always too early. And they do it alone, in isolation. Hence they get picked off by the lefties, the greens and the green-left media. ABS, SBS and commercial. And the left-wing of their own party.

      They need a different strategy.

      They need to get their forces identified and lined up. Organised. Thoroughly organised.

      They need a campaign that has all the parliamentarians who know that the CO2 driven global warming to be fiction; claptrap, to each play a role. Each must have a hymn-sheet and a specific function. They need to get the academics who also know the truth, to combine with them. They need to get those in the media who have some understanding of the real issues to combine with them.

      In other words they need a good solid continuous public education campaign that’s sustained over time.

      It needs to have a response mechanism built in. A mechanism that reacts whenever one of the foolish green blob opens their mouth. Flannery needs to be ridiculed by them. Not just once, but every time he opens his mouth. Ditto all the other usual suspects. Every individual within the campaign needs to be allocated a target. All targets need to be attacked every time they say anything economically irrational or scientifically stupid.

      One man or woman can’t do it alone. It needs a sustained team effort.

      It needs to be done quietly, behind the scenes.

      Then WHAM. WHAM and more WHAM.

      160

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Tony,

      Your analysis is your analysis – it is your opinion, based on the facts at your disposal, and how you interpret the ways in which those facts interact.

      Nobody expects you to be 100% correct, but I have never known you to be significantly wrong, which means having a score in the upper quartile.

      Stick with it, my friend, other people are reliant on your analysis. Me for one, and lots of others besides.

      scientiam querere, invenire verum. To seek knowledge, to find truth.

      141

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      No, Tony, please keep going. The information that you have provided over the many months that I have been following you on Jo’s site have been invaluable to me, not just for my own knowledge, but to help me when I am discussing solar or wind with anyone who will listen to me (not too many!). As I said in #5 above, if Frydenberg could be persuaded to sponsor genuine debate between the warmist community and recognised experts from our side, then the scam might just start to come apart in the public’s mind and he might get the impetus he needs to take control of this issue. Perhaps, if Analitik gets to meet him personally he might like yo bring that suggestion up.

      61

    • #
      bobl

      Me too I’m afraid, I’ve offered to present to members and senators the basic math on CAGW and renewables and they always refuse – Ideology trumps truth. With the Nationals in a critical power position, my guess is that some common sense might prevail from the agrarian socialists, but we must remember that they ARE Socialists.

      We might hear some more sense from this likely unstable government.

      On the other hand though I point out again that your estimates for capacity factor are meaningless because they are annualised. This means that they assume that there is 12 Months of storage capacity to average out the peaking generation. The storage just doesn’t exist. At best these plants have maybe 10 minutes of inertial storage, solar thermal might get an hour. The fact is that the average reliable generation of a 200Watt solar panel is about 5 Watts because of the inability to work at night or or in overcast weather. For most of winter in Victoria, PV solar is going to produce 1/5th of nameplate for just 4 or 5 hours a day. Grid power is over 99% reliable, and this is almost impossible to meet with wind and solar without huge amounts of overbuild.

      I wish you would revise your calcs to equalise reliability parameters as a good engineer would comparing reliable coal power to average Solar/Wind generation which is NOT reliable is just wrong.

      20

      • #
        Analitik

        I can only think Anton does this as a sop to the uneducated so they have something to reference the renewables against. Most people who haven’t had any exposure to power engineering cannot grasp how instantaneous the stability of the grid is let alone the consequences of synchronous inertia (and hence the lack, thereof).

        I am hoping that the swings against the Coalition with make Frydenberg more receptive to a presentation from a disgruntled conservative from a neighbouring electorate. I will be sure to mention the deliberate first preferencing to minor parties when I contact his office.

        50

    • #
      Gordon

      Sir, you make perfect sense to me. I am not an engineer,but I am old enough to remember the BS on solar and wind back in the late 60′s. The story has never changed. EVER! We are getting close, the costs are coming down, in several years from now, costs are reduced further, more efficient. But when and where is all this going to come together? If my math is correct 1970 was 46 years ago. The world ain’t dead yet, we still got oil. Renewable’s are just around the corner, I think… sort of…. next week …..

      10

    • #
      Brian Lund

      Tony, please do not despair – there are many who understand.
      If people had to pump their water by windmill and they had not sufficient storage capacity for those times the wind won’t move that wheel (sometimes weeks at a time) then they wouldn’t take much convincing, as far as Wind Power is concerned.
      That most of the ‘believers’ can simply turn on a tap or throw a switch is the big problem – confront them with reality and their attitude *might* change.
      Or, they could do as does my neighbour – ask me to pump water (genny driving a submersible) for his few head of cattle because the wind hasn’t been sufficient to enable his windmill to put even a dribble of water in his 5,000 gallon tank and the trough is empty. (Bit like today, a lovely sunny C.Q. Spring day – and not a leaf stirring on the trees.)

      00

  • #
    pat

    17 Jul: MidlandReporterTelegram: Solar’s rise delayed
    Cheaper natural gas among factors slowing the sun’s power in Texas State may add only half of the capacity that was projected for end of 2017
    by Jordan Blum, Houston Chronicle
    Clean Energy swooped into Texas last year with big plans to build the state’s largest solar farm, a $320 million project covering 2,400 acres in the Panhandle and capable of powering 40,000 homes — even on the hottest days.
    But more than six months after construction was scheduled to begin, ceremonial shovels have yet to break ground on the Nazareth Solar project about 60 miles south of Amarillo. The problem: No one wants to buy the electricity…
    At least five major solar projects expected to come online in Texas by the end of 2017 have been delayed or canceled, while some industry giants, such as SunEdison, have filed for bankruptcy…
    The roughly 300 megawatts of grid-scale solar power in Texas account for less than 1 percent of the state’s electricity generation, according to the Electric Reliability Council of Texas…
    Rock-bottom natural gas prices, which have lowered the cost of traditional power generation, and a lack of state incentives make it nearly impossible for solar to compete dollar-for-dollar in the Texas marketplace — even with federal tax breaks, said Travis Miller, director of utilities research at Morningstar.
    Solar can’t even compete with wind, which had a big head start in Texas, and still costs roughly 15 percent less than solar, according to renewable energy developers. Texas leads the nation in wind power with an expected capacity by the end of the year of more than 20,000 megawatts — enough to power about 5 million homes ***when the wind is blowing…
    Globally, funding for the solar industry has plunged to about $1.7 billion in the second quarter from nearly $6 billion during the same period in 2015, according to Mercom Capital Group, a clean energy consulting company. At least 100 solar companies have filed for bankruptcy or closed in the United States and Europe since 2009, including Austin-based HelioVolt, which shut down in 2014, according to Greentech Media, a market research firm.
    One of the biggest setbacks for the industry came in April, when Sun-Edison, the world’s largest renewable energy developer, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection…
    Top 10 solar states by cumulative solar capacity, including utility-scale, distributed and rooftop (as of March): SEE LIST
    http://www.mrt.com/business/oil/article_8d95c600-4ae8-11e6-b76a-fb17590cd246.html

    80

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Good research from you Pat, I like what I hear. There’s a lot of mistruths about the price of gas pushing up the cost of elctricity. But we all know & understand that gas fired power plants are far superior to wind and solar and will always be a cheaper form of energy.
      GeoffW

      70

  • #
    pat

    what deal?

    18 Jul: Guardian: Adam Vaughan: UN criticises UK and Germany for betraying Paris climate deal
    Climate change envoy singles out both countries for subsidising the fossil fuel industry and says the UK has lost its position as a climate leader
    Ban Ki-moon’s climate change envoy has accused the UK and Germany of backtracking on the spirit of the Paris climate deal by financing the fossil fuel industry through subsidies.
    Mary Robinson, the former president of Ireland and UN special envoy on climate change and El Nino, said she had to speak out after Germany promised compensation for coal power and the UK provided tax breaks for oil and gas…
    “It’s regrettable. That’s not in the spirit [of Paris]. In many ways, the UK was a real leader [on climate change] and hopefully the UK will become again a real leader. But it’s not at the moment.”…
    “Germany says its on track to end coal subsidies by 2018 but the German government is also introducing new mechanisms that provide payment to power companies for their ability to provide a constant supply of electricity, even if they are polluting forms, such as diesel and coal,” she said. She called on Germany to make a real commitment to get out of coal.
    But she said her criticism was far from limited to the two countries. “We want all countries to end [fossil fuel] subsidies,” she said…
    The likely US Republican presidential nominee, Donald Trump, has said he would try to unpick the deal, but Robinson said if it was ratified by the US this year “unwinding it would be very prolonged and difficult. I sincerely hope we won’t be facing that problem.”
    However Hillary Clinton would be good on climate because she had been pushed by Bernie Sanders to adopt an ambitious climate change platform, she said…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/18/un-criticises-uk-and-german-for-betraying-the-spirit-of-the-paris-climate-deal

    above mentions the following statement from “The Elders” – Robinson, Kofi Annan, Desmond Tutu, etc:

    PDF: 3 pages: TheElders.org: Elders Statement on Climate Change
    18 July 2016
    As the countries of the world meet this week to discuss progress towards the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), leaders must back up words with action on climate change…
    The Elders strongly advocated for, and welcomed, the Paris climate change agreement. Sadly, what we are seeing so far this year does not convince us that leaders, especially of wealthy and large emitting countries, are acting in accordance with the vision they publicly embraced in Paris…
    As things stand, The Elders have two major concerns:
    1. None of the top 10 emitters of greenhouse gases have ratified the Paris Agreement…
    2. Leaders are still making investment decisions that run contrary to the Paris Agreement…
    This is simply not good enough…
    http://theelders.org/sites/default/files/2016_07_18-statement-elders-statement-on-climate-change_0.pdf

    60

    • #
      TdeF

      It is surprising that Jimmy Carter as a former submarine nuclear engineer is signatory to such rubbish, though what an honorary Elder means is odd. These are all politicians who push political causes and removing carbon from our lives is insane, given we, the trees and flowers and all our food are made from CO2. As for sustainable, none of the energy sources are sustainable in the long term. Even Uranium will run out quickly but the windmills in rich countries is an insult to the people who cannot afford them and a curse for those who can. So while North Korea tries to put warheads on multi stage missiles, Iran tries to build bombs and the world threatens Russia with war and the middle East explodes, these wise people talk about sustainability? More like senility.

      100

  • #
    pat

    ***the consequence of not ***getting with the programme!

    15 Jul: ClimateChangeNews: Megan Darby: Offshore carbon: why a climate deal for shipping is sinking
    Eight months after world leaders struck a historic climate pact in Paris, most UN bodies are – more or less – ***getting with the programme…
    Yet the London-based International Maritime Organization (IMO) is deadlocked on the issue. Countries that speak up for climate ambition in other forums here dissemble and delay.
    Puzzlingly, a tiny Pacific island state is one of the most vocal opponents of attempts to set a climate target for the sector…
    The Cook Islands, population 15,000, is on the front line of sea level rise and intensifying tropical storms.
    Yet at the last IMO environmental committee meeting, its representative Captain Ian Finley agitated against even talking about a climate target for shipping.
    A modest proposal to set up a working group was “right out of left field,” he fumed. “To be honest I am staggered that this was even suggested.”
    That stance is at odds with neighbouring Solomon Islands and Marshall Islands. Backed by France, Germany, Belgium and Morocco, they are pushing for shipping to do its “fair share” towards the Paris goals…
    “The person there representing the Cook Islands, in my view does not actually represent the Cook Islands in a manner that realises or pushes for this issue to move forward.”
    That was Moses Kouni Mose, Solomon Islands ambassador to the EU…
    “I am not sure whether he [Finley] is receiving his instructions from the capital or speaking his own mind, representing the parochial interests of the industry.”…
    It is an open question. Finley, an Englishman who previously negotiated for Panama, could not be reached for interview…
    “He comes across as a one-man show,” says Galen Hon, shipping expert at Carbon War Room, a green business think tank funded by Richard Branson…
    It is true that the Cook Islands is not the only country blocking this agenda. Several emerging economies and even the US make similar arguments, albeit with less vehemence…
    For all its protestations, sources close to the process think there is something fishy about the Cook Islands’ staunch antagonism of its nearest neighbours…
    One explanation lies with the Cook Islands’ most notorious industry: offshore banking…READ ON
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/07/15/offshore-carbon-why-a-climate-deal-for-shipping-is-sinking/

    30

  • #
    pat

    14 Jul: BloombergNewEnergyFinance: Clean energy investment in 2016 undershoots last year’s record
    Clean energy investment in the second quarter totaled $61.5bn, some 12% above the first-quarter 2016 figure but ***32% below a very strong outturn of $90bn in the equivalent period of 2015.
    Looking at the 2016 trend so far, and taking the Q1 and Q2 2016 figures together, global investment in the first half of this year was $116.4bn, some 23% lower than in the opening six months of 2015, according to the latest authoritative data from Bloomberg New Energy Finance.
    Europe’s figure for H1 2016 was up 4% at $33.5bn, and Brazil was up 36% at $3.7bn. But all the other regions were down – China by 34% to $33.7bn, India down 1% at $3.8bn, the rest of Asia Pacific down 47% at $12.1bn, Middle East and Africa down 46% at $4.2bn, the US down 5% at $23.1bn, and the Americas excluding the US and Brazil down 63% at $2.3bn…READ ALL
    http://about.bnef.com/press-releases/clean-energy-investment-2016-undershoots-last-years-record/

    note: BNEF revises last year’s figure upwards.

    20

  • #
    pat

    had used up my free quota at NYT, but WUWT has a link:

    15 Jul: WUWT: The New York Times Publishes Another Flawed Prediction on Climate
    Guest opinion by Steven Capozzola
    The New York Times ran an op-ed today by Adam Sobel, an “atmospheric scientist at Columbia.” The gist of Sobel’s article: Since 2005, the United States has been experiencing a hurricane “drought” (I.e. no major hurricane has made landfall in the time. We are currently at 3918 days, over a decade.) But don’t worry, Sobel says, there will be more hurricanes soon, and the fact that they will be coming is proof of man-made climate change…
    Again, it’s somewhat laughable that the New York Times would publish an opinion that basically says ‘We haven’t seen any major hurricanes for 11 years, we don’t really know why that is, climate science is uncertain, our predictive computer models can only tell us so much, but we’re certain to see more hurricanes soon, and man-made CO2 emissions are the cause.’
    But this is the face of contemporary climate alarmism. This is the crowd of environmental elites who willfully disparage anyone who questions the theory of man-made warming, who aim to silence dissent and debate on the issue, and who advocate for massive reductions in fossil fuel use that will hurt millions of low-income Americans, and likely forfeit the lives of millions in the Third World…
    Sobel and his ilk should stop basing their predictions on failed computer models and start looking at the real world consequences of their imperfect science…
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/07/15/the-new-york-times-publishes-another-flawed-prediction-on-climate/

    17 Jul: NoTricksZone: P. Gosselin: New Study, Scientists: “20th Century Warming Not Very Obvious In Our Reconstruction”
    New Paper: China temperatures warmer during the 1700s, linked to solar, volcanic, and AMO/PDO forcing
    By Kenneth Richard …
    The lack of a conspicuous 20th century warming — and the warmer periods during the 1600s and 1700s — are clearly shown in the summer temperature graph below…
    http://notrickszone.com/2016/07/17/new-study-scientists-20th-century-warming-not-very-obvious-in-our-reconstruction/#sthash.DAH6SEEX.obSaRhSp.dpbs

    30

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      And the fact that they will be coming is proof … blah blah blah.

      Yesterday, upon the stair,
      I met a man, who wasn’t there.
      He wasn’t there again today,
      I wish that man would go away.

      Anon (but precient)

      50

  • #
    pat

    some say he is crazy, but he gets it on CAGW:

    18 Jul: SunStar, Philippines: Ruth Abbey Gita: Duterte on Paris climate pact: ‘I won’t honor that’
    PRESIDENT Rodrigo Duterte said Monday that he will not acknowledge the Paris agreement on climate change, which he called a “stupid” treaty.
    Duterte, however, insisted that he was not the one who signed the agreement.
    The President recalled how he was pissed during his conversation with French Ambassador Thierry Mathou, who paid a visit on him before he took oath in his office.
    Among the issues they had discussed was the climate change.
    “The reason why I’m angry at the ambassador – I want to kick him – is because he was reminding me about this emission and carbon footprints. And I said yes, we are signatory to that. [He also asked me] Would you be able to maintain your emissions? I said, ‘No, I cannot tell.’ [He replied,] You would because it would be distributed pro rate,” he said.
    “[I then told him,] you don’t do it that way, Mr. Ambassador. You had reached your Apex and along the way, put a lot of contaminants and emission and went ahead in destroying the climate. Good for you, we are here, we have not reached the age of industrialization,” Duterte added.
    Duterte stressed he will not follow the agreement, even though it was signed by the past administration, because the country is now in a “developing stage but will be limited [because of the pact]…
    http://www.sunstar.com.ph/manila/local-news/2016/07/18/duterte-paris-climate-pact-i-wont-honor-486011

    50

  • #

    Australia Appoints “Mr Coal” As New Climate Change Minister
    http://www.desmogblog.com/2016/07/18/australia-appoints-mr-coal-new-climate-change-minister
    Graham Readfearn whines at Desmog:

    Frydenberg is one of several conservative Australian MPs and Senators to have embraced the coal industry spin.

    Frydenberg’s replacement as resources minister is Liberal National Party Senator Matt Canavan, who in 2015 said he thought climate change science was becoming “more uncertain”, that climate models were not reliable, and that sea level rises were not accelerating.

    80

    • #

      Great article! (/sarc)

      Wonder how he let tit pass through without spell checking, and then his editor also not checking.

      Check out the second last word in the fourth paragraph.

      Gives you confidence in the author of the article, eh!

      Tony.

      70

    • #
      Angry

      Graham Readfearn the little leftist tosser that Lord Monckton totally destroyed and embarrassed in Brisbane several years ago in a debate.
      He subsequently lost his job at the Courier Mail on its “green blog” or some such name.
      Just an oxygen thief.

      82

  • #
    Dave

    I just don’t know

    Replace a GREG with a JOSH

    A: GREG = Law degree & a Master of Arts in International Relations
    B: JOSH = Law & Economics degree & a Master of International Relations degree

    They are so similar in education that DOES NOT involve ANY science at all!

    Once the Gravy train of O/S trips available to the CO2 Scam Conferences, meetings, COP’s, Robber’s and the rest – I feel JOSH will become more like GREG!

    Only the next few months will tell – but I feel we will be let down as Malcolm will demand a pay day from this JOSH!

    Hope I am wrong.

    50

  • #

    The Guardian’s in a frenzy too, over the suggestion that there might be some uncertainty over climate change:

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jul/19/matthew-canavan-says-there-is-uncertainty-around-cause-of-climate-change

    30

    • #
      el gordo

      Canavan sounds terrific, but he’s in for a fight. This from Getup.

      ‘Without federal assistance, Adani’s Carmichael coal mine and Abbot Point coal port are as good as cooked.

      ‘When asked about funding Adani’s coal project on Radio National this morning, Resources Minister Josh Frydenberg suggested, “Adani needs to stand on its own two feet… it wouldn’t be a priority project for the Commonwealth.”

      40

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      Yes, but he is still covering his bets, suggesting that there is still a possibility that alternative energy “could” provide all requirements. Might just be covering his backside, instead! However, he is obviously aware of modern coal technology and is keen to exploit it, so ….. watch this space.

      30

      • #
        Analitik

        He may be just presenting a green tinge for public image – Frydenberg seems a pretty hardcore export development advocate. I hope to be able to ask him, myself

        40

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    Oneday these idiots will learn the lesson of their useless wind farms and solar grids, hopefully sooner. Nothing wrong with modern design (not old Westinghouse) nuclear reactors..shsh

    20

  • #
    Egor TheOne

    In Victoria, I hear Marxist Ratbag,CFMEU union Crony, Despot Daniels has just approved a new ‘Prayer Wheel’ farm of 96 turbines at Warrnamboo and commented on how he wants to make Victoria the most renewable powered in Australia!

    If this clown achieves what he says then we in Vic will become an even bigger economic basket case than South Aus.

    Who voted for this imbecile?

    Why are we forced to tolerate such wreckers as this deluded hunchback?

    Why are the coalition both statewide and nationally quiet on this economic suicide?

    We need One Nation as the dominant party in Australia with Pauline as PM, instead of that Big Bank lackey, ‘the Turdfull’!

    No one else has got any ‘teeth’ or credibility.

    No to CAGW true b’lverism and No to these taxpayer funded Dud Renewables!

    We need real leaders instead of paper politicians and gutless racketeering U.N. appeasers.

    61

    • #
      Pete of Perth

      Emperor Barnett should be wooing Vic’s manufacturing industry to move West.

      30

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Yep

        But that won’t happen if WA thinks the current Labor leadership in the state is worth a try. In that event we’ll go the same way as Victoria, Tasmania and South Australia.

        10