JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Don’t drive, you encourage terrorists

If only we had more electric cars and windmills, lives could’ve been saved.

Ponder that air conditioners can cause people to do random acts of murder.  They might keep people in the room calmer, but outside that pollution* travels, heats the world, and lo, a terrorist is made.

(Call me a skeptic, but I tend to think that if we turn off all the air-conditioners (or run them on solar power, which is almost the same thing) we might get more acts of terror rather than less, but what would I know?) Bernie Sanders says that we should stop terrorists by reducing our carbon emissions. Somehow, there were people who did not laugh at him.

Time Magazine : “Why Climate Change and Terrorism Are Connected”

Drought in Syria has contributed to instability

Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders used the terrorist attacks in Paris to call for action to address climate change at a primary debate Saturday. But, while the plea attracted ridicule across the political spectrum, many academics and national security experts agree that climate change contributes to an uncertain world where terrorism can thrive.

U.S. military officials refer to climate change as a “threat multiplier” that takes issues like terrorism that would pose a threat to national security and exacerbates the damage they can cause. A 2014 Department of Defense report identifies climate change as the root of government instability that leads to widespread migration, damages infrastructure and leads to the spread of disease. “These gaps in governance can create an avenue for extremist ideologies and conditions that foster terrorism,” the report says.

The weather and violence link seems a bit unlikely at first, but think about it — if a big volcano had gone off in 1939, things would have been cooler, and Hitler might have been a lot nicer, say, more like Napoleon. Am I stretching the analogy? I sure hope so.

But we live in hope and pray to the Gods of Political Correctness that perhaps a volcano will go off and save the day — a spot of cooling and a dash of rain, and the murderous types of migrants will all head back where they came from and there will be peace.

But wait, what if it was a Big-Oil plot?

Oliver Tickell in the Ecologist wonders if the aim of the Paris terrorists was to save oil profits instead of being a reaction to dry weather?

“Is it a coincidence that the terrorist outrage in Paris was committed weeks before [the UN’s] COP21, the biggest climate conference since 2009? Perhaps. But failure to reach a strong climate agreement now looks more probable. And that’s an outcome that would suit ISIS – which makes $500m a year from oil sales – together with other oil producers.”

Tickell asked “ISIS Inc defending its corporate interests?”

As Bishop Hill says “A real OMG moment here folks”.

For commenters, thanks to Australia’s 18C laws on racial vilification — even if you are not discussing a race, but a meme or a religion — you can’t cause offence. Please [SNIP-18C] yourself. Don’t do it for their sake, do it for mine. For your info, it appears to be accepted in Australia to say mean and offensive things about Daesh believers.

Weep for our freedom of speech when talking about anyone else.

Niall Ferguson has an excellent article in The Australian and London Sunday Times.

h/t  climatedepot.com, David, Colin,

*Pollution, aka fertilizer. What’s the difference?

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144 comments to Don’t drive, you encourage terrorists

  • #

    The [SNIP-18C] Climate Change [SNIP-18C] COP21 Conference [SNIP-18C] in Paris [SNIP-18C] has [SNIP-18C] nothing whatsoever [SNIP-18C] to do with [SNIP-18C] the climate. It’s just [SNIP-18C] about [SNIP-18C] the money.

    To[SNIP-18C]ny.


    [I wrote S18 in the post, I meant 18C. I fixed the post, and your comment. -- Jo]

    401

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    For years, environmentalists have been telling us that all sorts of valuable things are scarce. Resources are being depleted, and we are doomed.

    The principle scarcity is common sense. Blaming events on “climate change”
    is not a prediction – it asserts the thing has happened. The only non-diddled-with climate records disagree.

    Now, we all, if we have studied history (another scarcity) know that weather impacts history, from the kami kazi that saved medieval Japan to the blow that did in the Spanish Armada, to the winter that squished Napoleon.

    We even know that real climate change does the same, as the American Anasazi peoples were done in 1200 years ago by the desertification of the southwest.

    But the only climate that has changed here is the one that fosters, or at least permits, the use of reason in our academic and social institutions.

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    • #

      ’twas never about climate change, jest a pretext
      for socialist-back-to-the-golden-age-politics-
      via-weakening-western-productivity-that’s-based
      -on-efficient-energy- like ol’King-Coal.

      150

    • #
      CC Reader

      Rich & Beth,
      The resources of the earth such as gas and oil will run out. What can the people of earth do?
      1. Reduce the population.
      2. Start using nuclear/thorium power
      2. Develope new technology’s.

      12

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        The resources of the earth such as gas and oil will run out.

        What is your rationale for making such a statement? Do you understand how complex hydrocarbons are created? Or are you just parroting other people who don’t know either?

        40

      • #
        Uwe Hayek

        The resources of the earth such as gas and oil will run out. What can the people of earth do?
        1. Reduce the population.
        2. Start using nuclear/thorium power
        2. Develope new technology’s.

        2. Use Already Developed Technologies

        Watch in this Video how small a Solar panel surface is required, and how ludricously small area is needed to store that energy :
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVjW9XdPlhg

        Uwe Hayek.

        12

  • #
    Robk

    So many things to slay upon the alter to appease the gods.

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  • #
    Uwe Hayek

    Well, driving an oil fueled car actually promotes Terrorism.

    The oil is very likely to come from some Arab oil producing state, and they fund islamic terrorism big time.
    They fund Isis, Isil, Daiesh, Al Quaeda, the “Palestistinians” and every other islamic organisation that wants to kill unbelievers. (Just like Climate Hysterics)

    The Real Urgent and Commanding reason to drive Electric and go Solar is to cut the income from these Arabic islamic Terrorists Sponsoring States. Who want to dominate the World , by the way, with their 7th century desert ideology.

    Now generating Energy is not the Real Problem, the Problem is storing it.

    Elon Musk seems to have solved it. Lithium Ion battery technology is more advanced than you think and solar efficiency is quite good, better than you imagined.

    On Solar Panel Efficiency :
    http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/09/dont-be-a-pv-efficiency-snob/

    Watch Elon Musk introduce his PowerWall :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVjW9XdPlhg

    Saudi Arabia, will fail in their plot to bankrupt shale oil production by lowering the price of their oil. By pumping at these low prices, they already had to go out and sell shares, gold, and borrow money. The oil price will never recover, as driving and heating solar-battery-electric will reduce oil demand by 90 %, just at the moment huge reserves of oil are being found all over the globe.

    Oil will peek forever and be worthless.

    And the Climate Hysterics will sadly notice that the rich and rich countries will drive electric and go solar first, so their leftist means to attack the rich by slapping co2 emmission tax on them will backfire, and the climate hysteria will die in 5 years, when they should start chasing poor countries and poor people. NOT.

    Driving Electric will make the loony greens even greener than green with spite, and enjoy a new species : hungry green and poor bohemian Oil Sheiks, who will rediscover the simple desert life in the company of their Camel.

    The Green-Marxists will probably turn 180 degrees and argue that Lithium should be taxed. Watch them coming down on this, once they realized they will miss their target BIG TIME.

    Uwe Hayek.

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    • #
      Manfred

      My guess is that things may look and feel quite a bit different when the various looters who enjoy massive tax takes on liquid fuels have to look elsewhere. When they are ‘compelled’ to garner the same tax on your elektrick vehicle through hideous registration and road user changes, not to mention the ‘battery’ disposal / replacement charge and tax, and power fee, watch the enthusiasm wane.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Yes and no….I think while its messy, you could drain & cut up old batteries and lob the bits into your normal bin over a series of weeks to get rid of them…..

        Funnily enough , there was an article about how many people are turning to using an electric push bike as a “2nd vehicle” – and I thought great – we are forced to ride bikes like peasants…..bikes are great – unless you have kids and shopping and a normal life.

        My wife considered a bike to be a godo 2nd car – I said yep, then they will tax them like crazy becasue theyc ant get tax from the then-defunct 2nd car….she said dont be so negative – I said I wasnt, I just know how govts think. Tax is king.

        And of course, the less fuel sold in a state, less GST collected, lower state revenue ( after the fed-state tax share arguments are settled )….and as govts are reliant on tax revenue, they will come looking for it in other ways.

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    • #

      Uwe Hayek mentions this here: (my bolding)

      Now generating Energy is not the Real Problem, the Problem is storing it.
      Elon Musk seems to have solved it. Lithium Ion battery technology is more advanced than you think and solar efficiency is quite good, better than you imagined.

      Hmm! Solved it, eh!

      His home battery is not even a full solution for a single residential application.

      As to, umm, solving the storage problem, all we need now do is to scale it up.

      Sydney consumes 25TWH of power a year, so that’s 68,500,000KWH a day. If the average home consumes 15KWH of power a day, (and here I’ve scaled that down, because it’s actually closer to 20KWH a day or more) and this Elon Musk Battery seems to have solved that, then all we need now is one of his Lithium batteries capable of storing 4.57 MILLION times what that one can.

      That Sydney consumption of 68,500,000KWH or power a day equates to a Peak consumption of 2,800MW, and an absolute physical 24 hour must have requirement of 2,500MW.

      So, now we find we need one of these Elon Musk batteries capable of storing 2,800MW, oh, and enough solar panels to actually generate that total in the first place, say, around 27 Million of them, at the average Capacity Factor of 13%.

      Hmm! Good luck with that!

      Tony.

      Post Script – And that’s just ONE city, Sydney.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Yup…and LI batteries burn incredibly hot if they malfunction….no thanks….

        Funny story – at my old high school back in the 80s, a new lab tech took over and found a few “suprises” including a tin of sodium with next to no oil covering the sodium it…they took it down to the local river, and tossed it in. Nothing happened for 30 seconds then – KABOOM!!!!!!!!! Huge water spout….easy fishing for a few weeks….

        40

        • #

          What the!

          A lab tech actually did that. I guess safety precautions don’t really matter when no one’s looking eh!

          I remember making electrolyte for lead acid batteries, during my 6 Month stint in the Battery Room as a new ElecFitt in the RAAF.

          Overall sleeves rolled down and buttoned to the neck. Complete thick rubber neck to ankle coat, wrap around. Thick rubber elbow length gauntlets. Full face wrap around head cover with clear visor. Fans on, both overhead and mobile standing fan, door open. Lead lined tub half full of distilled water. 1850SG Concentrated Sulphuric Acid from the thick hardened thermoplastic containers added very slowly to the distilled water in the tub, usually pouring it down the in side of the tub, with the Corporal, (also clad in the same rig) watching on and slowly stirring, and with an industrial Hydrometer to tell you when to stop pouring, as it got close to 1250.

          Hated that task with a passion. Once a Month, first thing Monday mornings for each new batch.

          And people just chuck old batteries at the dump, thinking that’s all it takes.

          Tony.

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        • #
          Willard

          Spot on Original Steve, imagine a careless driver cuts you off and your Electric car ends upside down on the side of the road, it would be frightening to be trapped in your seatbelt with all those LI batteries rolling out of their case besides your head with the potential to burn, best to stick with your Petrol car with the added comfort of a nice hot engine and exhaust system to keep you warm why the emergency services arrive to cut you out.

          40

        • #
          RB

          Off topic but one for the chemists. The science officer was cleaning out cupboards before refurbishment of a research lab. She called me over and asked about this bottle in with the organic solvents (mostly 2.5L Winchesters of THF, about a dozen) stored in a wooden cupboard under the fumehood.

          It was 1L of perchloric acid with a rusted cap. Because our supervisor was a prick, I’m not sure that it was accidentally put there.

          No that could have been a good bang.

          30

      • #
        Uwe Hayek

        My dear TonyfromDownUnder,

        It actually helps if you click, read and watch the accompanying links, before you engage your keyboard.

        A friend saw me write this post yesterday, and I said to him : I bet no-one will use these links. They will just blabber a reaction from their stomach. Shame on you.

        The PowerWall for instance, comes in two versions : 7 KWhr and 10 KWhr, and 7 of them can be cascaded. The 7 Kwhr version can deliver 3 KW. That means you can consume 70 KWhr during non solar hours an have 21 KW at your disposal. A Luxury problem.

        Working on my books, is forcing me to live in Bohemian circumstances, and I have only some 3 KW at my disposal, for 3 persons. It is not ideal, but we are doing it for over a year now, and it is actually a minor nuisance. We use only one big consuming appliance, usually 2 KW, at a time. 3 computer rigs and 3 tv-monitors remain on. Led lighting lamps at night consume about 5 watts each.

        Uwe Hayek.

        28

        • #
          • #
          • #
            Uwe Hayek

            Gas is better ?

            Really ?

            A Porsche Cayenne Turbo or the new Corvette have LESS than the 800+ Horsepower that a Tesla delivers.

            0 to 100 kmh in 3.2 seconds.

            8 years warranty on the Tesla, UNLIMITED warranty on the Electric motor(s) AND Battery. (The only parts with friction in the motors are the bearings)

            Using Electricity of the Grid at night : 3 us Dollars per 100 km (at 13.5 cents times 22 KWhr for 100km). Even cheaper in Australia or when generated by Solar.

            PLUS : getting some of your taxes BACK.

            AND you bankrupt the Islamic Oil Sheiks and their world wide terrorism.

            AND Climate Hysterics can go to North Korea, and protest there about North Korean use of Mineral/Fossil Fuel.

            PLUS : Total Independence : Come What MAY, you can drive your car until your dying day !!!

            It does not get ANY BETTER than this.

            Uwe Hayek.

            33

            • #
              RB

              0 to 100 kmh in 3.2 seconds.

              How about $4.9B in subsidies and still going under. Reportedly losing $14 000 per car rather than $4000.

              It has the performance of a Porsche Boxster once under way, not supercar performance. The electric motors allow it to take off with high torque at low revolutions.

              41

              • #
                Uwe Hayek

                Investors in Tesla made 600 % return on their investment.

                Do not underestimate the importance of his PowerWall home battery. Same battery technology, for the car and for the home. And for the Industry.

                There just are not enough battery factories to make the batteries for the cars : Elon Musk is building a GigaFactory that will produce enough batteries at a much lower price. The price of the batteries is already at this moment breaking even to replace Fuel.

                Every car maker who wants to go electric will need those batteries, and only Musk can supply them, for the time being. Even the Chinese, tired of selling their goods cheap, and having to buy expensive oil on the Global Market, have caught on : they are rapidly ramping up Li-ion battery production for Electric Vehicle Use. Japanese/Koreans claim to have a carbon based battery with a weight efficiency of almost twice that of Li-ion, look at the Kia Outlander Hybrid Pluggable and the New Nissan Leaf.

                But that is all besides the point : what price tag do you stick to what happened in Paris last Weekend ?

                Our enemy is not Global Warming but [snip 18C] and if driving electric is starving their only resource then I gladly accept any inconvenience that brings.

                Even going to 100 in only 3.2 secs. And having only a small 14 inch touchscreen, or those funny looking wing doors and having only 7 seats. (Model X)

                Uwe Hayek.

                25

              • #
                Willard

                RB, it’s actually 0-100 in 3.0 seconds using Ludacrous mode, that’s supercar acceleration, considering the Model S is a full size 4 door weighing over 2000kgs that’s well…Ludacrous..

                30

              • #
                Aaron M

                RB, having driven one, I have to say it craps all over a Boxter, and even a GT2 in corner exit acceleration. The powerband is everywhere you want it, and is like no other car Ive driven (and Ive been fortunate to drive a few exotics). Handling and steering inputs are poo, and use in a warm (pointless car here in Darwin with the AC on) or freezing environment are also negatives.
                No, the P85D Tesla has SUPERCAR performance…..for a while. It just doesnt have top end performance, but for everything involving remaining under the speed limit, its a winner. Low (and I mean striaght off idle low)and midrange torque is like a v16 turbo diesel on steroids if it could rotate and hold together for 7500 rpm.

                32

              • #
                Ian Nairn

                UH,Yes investor have made money because of the massive government subsidies. Without them they would losing money, but only the rich can afford them. Looks like taking from the poor and giving to the rich, but anyway electric cars are not the future, just a stop gap until hydrogen cars come along. They will replace petrol engines and they will be just as functional because you can fill them up just like a petrol engine and no need to wait long hours like and electric car. Once we can stop using petrol it will mean less money for the terrorists.

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              • #

                “Investors in Tesla made 600 % return on their investment.”

                “UH,Yes investor have made money because of the massive government subsidies.”

                Sorry, it was neither making a return on investment nor making money, it was theft by proxy. They made use of the gun of government (taxation) to transfer wealth from those who actually did (or will) create it into their pockets.

                The fact that it involved an unaudited complex and massive tree of transactions to accomplish the transfer does not make it any less theft nor does it make the wealth received any less stolen property. The foundation of this wealth transfer is the initiation of force upon those who have not violated the rights of others. This makes both Musk and his customers morally equivalent to con artists who engage in theft by deception.

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              • #
                RB

                But that is all besides the point : what price tag do you stick to what happened in Paris last Weekend ?

                Makes everything else that you wrote dubious, doesn’t it?

                31

              • #
                RB

                Aaron, despite not being as lucky as you, I appreciate that the lowdown torque would be great for driving on public roads but I hate how the costs are compared to a true supercar when it has the performance of a car that can do 9L/100km (in government test mode).

                The latest hybrid supercars get to 100km/h in less than 3s but get to 200 in under 7. The original S model barely went faster then 200 and the D has a top speed of 250Km/h.

                11

              • #
                Willard

                Oh Ian Nairn, don’t tell me you’ve drunk the “Hydrogen fuel cell” Koolaid from the large energy companies desperate to keep their hands in the wallets of car drivers.

                00

              • #
                Willard

                RB, “Hybrid super cars that go 0-100 in less than 3 seconds” are you talking about the million dollar versions that only seat 2 passengers? The only people who can afford those are from oil rich countries making a tidy profit from Aussie petrol bowsers.

                10

              • #
                RB

                Willard, they compare fuel costs with a V12 Lamborghini.

                00

      • #
        Uwe Hayek

        For completeness : this information also helped me convince it solar IS feasible :

        http://www.sma.de/unternehmen/pv-leistung-in-deutschland.html

        It turns out that Germany has an actual capacity of 38 GigaWatts of solar in place, TODAY.

        Germany has little sunshine, 4.5 hours on average per day.

        Sidney has 7.1, and you have lots of room with heavy sunshine areas DownUnder.

        Given the capacity/population ratio, with the same capacity in Sidney, 38/16, Sidney would be able to produce 16.6 GWhrs a day. Already 1/4 of the required capacity.

        Uwe Hayek.

        22

        • #
          James Murphy

          You talk about capacities and averages, but you (perhaps deliberately?) completely neglect the variable, and relatively unpredictable nature of solar power. I am not sure where you live, but in my neck of the woods, it can be grey and overcast for days on end at certain times of the year… I imagine that doesn’t do much for solar generation? (but maybe I am wrong…)

          You also seem to forget about all those people who cannot install solar power no matter how much they want to – those who live in multi-storey apartments. What do you propose they do?

          Have you got any hard figures showing that a $3000 outlay (for example) for a Powerwall (or equivalent lithium-powered fire-hazard) will genuinely save money over the 10 years it is guaranteed for? Are the batteries guaranteed for that time, or is it just the ancillary electronics?

          30

          • #
            Uwe Hayek

            I live in Belgium, and I always found solar laughable.
            Our government is the worst in the world, as we have the highest taxes in the world.

            Solar adopters got subsidies and incentives, can sell their daytime excess power at a good price to the grid and buy back KWhrs at night at a good price. I do not see any rationale in that, since it involves classical power generation, and a lot of wasted tax money.

            The scheme became totally UNaffordable, and they slapped a 30% increase on the electricity bill, to be payed by non-solar users.

            Soon they will change the parameters, and solar producers will get less for what they generate and have to pay more for what they use at night, nulling the return on their solar investment.

            So, we have a very high price per KWhr, 28 Eurocents/KWhr or 0.48 Australian dollarcent.

            To begin with I would go for at least two powerwalls, some 60 solar panels, 30 sq meters, giving me 6 KWhr per hour of sunshine and a charger inverter. 2*3000+60*100+1000 total 13,000 Euro.

            This will allow me to generate 27 KWhr per day at on average 4.5 hrs of sunshine per day, more than my battery will hold, but I can recharge twice a day and use the extra energy right away. For the air conditioner, washing machine, dishwasher, tumble dryer at peak sunshine. Suddenly no sunshine ? Battery jumps in.

            This rig will make me fully independent of the grid. Allow me to use 27 KWhr/day. I can even charge the car with that. This saves me 2,750 Euros and 200 Euro meter fee per year. In less than 5 years, my electricity is free.

            Plus, I do not feed the political vulptures that exploit our Grid. Rather put my money in honest solar cell and battery producers, than fund corrupt politics.

            Living in the woods and living in a multi story apartment. Get a piece of land outside the woods, use a cable, or physically transport the batteries every two days. 30 sq meter is very little.

            There is lots of room on top of multi story apartments. Solar cells can be stacked above one another. One single communal battery pack, look at the Powerwall presentation, can store 100 KWhr per unit, and since not all of the people use lots of elecricity all of the time, there is a scale advantage. At first, it could be used to cool/heat/light the communal parts of the building, and the car chargers in the basement. Then as trust in the technology develops, for individual apartments.

            And there is another way : use the powerwall to charge at the cheaper night electricity rates and use that power during the day.

            Another story : I plan to move to Portugal. The grid is very unreliable there, if you can even get the grid at remote locations. But lots of sunshine and open space there. Again, storage solves the problem. No more electricity bills, and no more expensive gas station visits.

            Uwe Hayek.

            11

    • #
      James Murphy

      Uwe Hayek – The oil price will never recover? Do you really believe that?

      According to the latest Journal of Petroleum Technology, which I just happened to be looking at, as it turned up on my desk this morning, world demand for oil has sat at around 93 million barrels (US) per day for the last 12 months. Supply of oil is about 95 million barrels (US per day.

      Seems to me like there’s still a little bit of a demand for this product?

      40

      • #
        Uwe Hayek

        “The Oil price will never recover”

        Elon Musk is planning to build next year half a million electric cars, with a price tag of about 30.000 dollars.

        Suppose he and other car makers succeed to build 10 million electric cars in the next five years. 10 liters of fuel per day per car, translates to about a million barrels surplus supply on an already glutted market with two million barrels too much supply (your numbers). When they see it coming, they will panic and lower the price of oil again, knowing that 2 years later maybe 20 million cars more will go electric. Again causing demand to plunge with 2 million barrels a day.

        At the same time, oil reserves are being found everywhere, but no-one will want to start exploration, since the oil price is constantly going down. Oil demand has peaked, and so the price has peaked. If they succeed to get it back up a little, then demand for Electric Cars will accelerate even more.

        Add to that, demand for heating fuel will also plummet as it is now possible to store Solar energy during the day, and heat your house at night. It might be at first more costly than gas or heating fuel, given a steep original investment, but people are fed up to be at the whim of price fluctuations, and want to have the peace of mind to be independent of these [snip 18C] Oil price manipulators or [snip 18C] ex-communist Gas price manipulators, (European situation).

        It especially dawned on me very fast, because I live in a penthouse with a large, double glazed window area, facing the sun at noon, South on the Northern hemisphere. Without heating, and given just a few minutes of sunshine, the apartment heats up to 26 centrigrade, even in a cold winter. I was thinking of storing that excess heat in water containers for using at night, but this is a messy solution, water going stale and contaminated unless you use chemicals…

        So we still use the fuel heating especially in the morning, and when we have several successive days with no sunshine.

        But if we could store the excess solar energy for a week or so, then that would change everything. And this is now possible.

        I also read a Petroleum Investment magazine and they were quite clueless about this energy revolution that is at the horizon. Although they had noticed that investment in oil exploration has never been so low. Investors are the smartest people on the Globe. It is their business to spot these trends way in advance.

        Uwe Hayek.

        12

    • #
      tom0mason

      Uwe Hayek

      “Elon Musk seems to have solved it. ”

      You appear to be either a salesperson for Mr Musk or one of Mr Musk’s crowd of the gullible. Musk’s ‘profit’ is only from government mandated tax (of all others) that then subsides his (loss making)scam.
      Battery technology is nowhere good enough for powering a household 24/7 without the user having to radically change their way of life. It is certainly not ‘sustainable’ as batteries (like windmills and solar panel) can not be manufactured using only unreliables.

      So get real — fossil fuel will be here for a very long time and no amount of wishful thinking on your part will change that.
      Fossil fuels will not run out in your, your childrens’, your grandchildrens’, or your great-grandchildrens’ lifetimes. The crystal ball get cloudy after that… :)

      And yes I have read the advertised hype you linked in.

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      • #
        Uwe Hayek

        @tom0mason
        “And yes I have read the advertised hype you linked in.”

        I doubt that, since the link on Solar panel efficiency was not at all an “advertisement”.

        And I was just as skeptical as you are but I did some homework. I started reading on the reliability of those batteries, and found out that if you stay within certain parameters, they can be used almost limitless, in contrast to lead acid batteries, whose lifetime and reliability is truly disappointing. Elon Musk says the same in his sales pitch.

        I did a lot of calculations, and always at the same result : NO reason it should not work. I see clearly that the solar industry has not yet adapted to this new battery : inverters and chargers available all work on multiples of 12 volts, the typical lead acid cascaded battery voltages. There is no reason they will not built chargers and inverters that are perfectly adapted for the new batteries.

        I always had a keen interest in all the battery technologies, like Nickel-Cadmium, Nickel Hydride, and recently the 1.7 Volts per cell Nickel Zink batteries.

        I recognize your skepticism, as I was just as skeptic as you until some two months ago. What convinced me was the article on solar efficiency, you just need one sixth of the roof surface area of an average house, and the “unlimited” lifetime of the new batteries, given three operating constraints. Not too full, not too discharged, and not too hot.

        And now it is BINGO ! Energy independence, for the house and for the car. Why remain skeptical, if the FACTS prove otherwise ?
        Musk offers 8 years warranty on the home battery, and Lifetime warranty for the car battery, just as for the electrical engine. He knows what he is doing as these engines have only friction in the ball bearings, and those are virtually indestructable. From what I read on the lifecycle of these batteries, from independent sources, he also knows what he is doing.

        My main argument against wind and solar was : What happens if there is no sun and no wind ?
        There was no way of storage !

        Add energy storage to the equation and the problem is solved. Mineral/Fossil (Lookup : Thomas Gold oil gas) fuel was so great just because it STORED a lot of energy. But on the other hand, these fuels are quite messy : coal digging, oil pumping (at very unforgiving places), shale exploration. Producing solar cells and batteries is way less messy and thus even cheaper in the end. The first microprocessors where horribly expensive, slow and had transistor counts in the few thousands. Look at were we are now. And solar cells are also made from silicon, and do not need 8 layers of interconnect like the modern microprocessors with 1.3 billion of transistors (I7).
        So expect a huge price drop. As the storage possibility will increase demand for solar really, really big time.

        I am the most skeptic of skeptics on Climate Change, I stand on (and fully understand) the side of the Sky Dragon Slayers, and will send an easy to understand resume of their theory to Joanne, I am sure that then she will understand the utter and total futility of the CO2 argument, and take the side of the Slayers.

        But when the facts are right, there is no more reason to doubt : OIL’s days are numbered. Worthless, 10 years from now. GOOD RIDDANCE.

        (I remember the days in the early 70ties, when we were not allowed to drive cars on sundays because of the oil boycott of the [snip 18C] desert oil extortionists. Because they lost the war against [snip 18C] Torah followers.)

        Paul Getty, an oil billionaire, said then : “the fools, this boycott will accelerate a search for alternatives that will be their demise”.

        You will see he was right.

        Uwe Hayek.

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          KinkyKeith

          Uwe hayek

          Every time I see your name on a post I am reminded of those people sitting at tables in shopping centres asking for donations.

          Please donate to “save the planet” or to “give some child in Africa a good water supply” or to “stop the waters rising” or to reduce CO2.

          Scams, all of them.

          Ever seen a LiPo go off.

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          • #
            Uwe Hayek

            “Ever seen a LiPo go off.”

            Maybe you should not read only my name, but read my whole post.

            Then you would have noticed that I am an AGW super skeptic.

            But If I can lower my energy bill even without subsidies, and be more energy independent, at the same time killing the green argument AND Terrorism, I go for it.

            Yes, I want to save the planet from this murderous [snip 18C] desert religion.

            I have never seen a Li-Po-ion go off, but when I was in California in 1986 I have seen about 5 cars going ablaze in 4 weeks time. We used to joke about these US films and series with all these cars immediately catching fire. Turns out that the average temperature makes a lot of difference when it comes to igniting fuel. I ran a diesel car in 1986, but in freezing Belgium I was unable to start a fire with some diesel on a cloth and the car cigarette lighter.

            I am not using a climate argument for going electric, I use a market argument, my own purse, and a political one, defunding terrorism.

            At the same time I rob the green-Marxists of their CO2 argument.

            A win-win-win situation.

            I really do not care what your decision is, I just wanted to share my very recently acquired new insights. Use them to your advantage or just ignore them.

            In five years, I will say “I informed you thusly” (from Sheldon in the Big Bang Theory series)

            Uwe Hayek.

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              KinkyKeith

              Uwe

              You certainly don’t have much credibility as an economist but I could certainly be easily led to believe that you are a car salesman

              OK electric car salesman, skeptic????????????????

              KK

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              • #
                Willard

                “Electric car salesman” KinkyKeith?, not many actually exist, most people who walk in to a major car dealership with the idea of buying a pure Electric vehicle will get steered towards something on the showroom floor with far more mechanical parts and servicing requirements, in fact anything with an internal combustion engine will do.

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                Uwe Hayek

                Please try to understand my point of view.

                In Belgium we pay 2 Australian dollars for one liter of gas. That is 80 % tax.

                I am sick and tired to be ripped of by the Robberment and the [snip 18C] Sand People.

                It is my lifelong frustration to be dependent on these energy vultures.

                So when I discovered a way to avoid them, some two months ago, that made me very happy.

                Mind you, I had almost submitted a paper on “What is ultimately possible in Physics” where I would replace the spark plugs in a car by devices that convert the omnipresent neutrinos in the cylinder into heat energy, and so drive the car without gas. That would be a very elegant solution. The deadline for this paper had already past.

                But I am still happy that there is a viable alternative. Less elegant, I know there are many disadvantages, but I will focus my mind to the advantages. When I refuel gas, I usually choose a big full service gas station get a few coffees and some food, have a chat with someone. Half an hour then passes quickly and I have then a charge that gets me 100 kilometers further. Some years back, everybody laughed at Smartphones. I aleady used a PDA (Palm) in combination with my phone, giving me all the functionality of a smartphone, some 5 years before it was even realized.
                I put the question forward : will the PDA’s (Personal Digital Assistant) acquire phone capabilities or will the phones acquire PDA capabilities.

                I remember that I asked the representative of a fixed line ISDN switchboard : can your system handle SMS messaging ? He answered : “nobody is ever going to use that.”

                People say : I only use my phone for calling. I then reply : no billion dollar a year job for you, as Steve Jobs had at Apple.

                His job was knowing the Next Big Thing 2 to 3 years in advance.

                I am telling you : energy independence is one of the Next Big Things.

                Uwe Hayek.

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                KinkyKeith

                Uwe

                I have friends who live in Belgique / Bruxelles and one has already left because he felt threatened.

                As for your battery car fetish I really wish you were right but unfortunately know you are wrong.

                A little realism goes a long way.

                KK

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        Uwe Hayek

        Battery technology is nowhere good enough

        You clearly live in the past.

        I just put the numbers in a spreadsheet.

        The price of a KWhr in Sidney is about 0.23 AUS Dollars.

        The COST of storage of a KWhr in a lead-acid battery is
        2.40 AUS Dollar, TEN TIMES MORE THAN THE GRID. Because a lead-acid battery can only be recharged 400 to 500 times, and then has to be replaced.

        BUT

        The COST of storage per KWhr in the
        new battery is ONLY 0.14 AUS Dollar per KWhr

        The price of this new battery can drop by half, given volume production, then we arrive at
        0.07 AUS Dollars per KWhr, ONE THIRD OF THE GRID.

        You see why this is a Revolution ?

        Uwe Hayek.

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    doubting dave

    I watched an interview on RT channel last night, in which they had a so called satirical journalist at the primary debate ask the campaign manageress of Bernie Sanders about terrorism, and she immediately put most of the blame on climate change,i know PAT keeps an eye on RT news , so perhaps he can provide a link . I’m beginning to think that Bernie Sanders himself is a complete phony , a deliberate plant inside the democratic party put there by the controllers behind the curtain , his job is to appeal to the fake grass roots movement , the young , ignorant and naive by advocating nonsensical and absurd ideas that have no chance of seeing the light of day, but will keep those groups of voters mentioned above flocking to the democratic vote on election day

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    TdeF

    star commentHow insensitive and offensive! So the real heads of state conference on Syria in Vienna was somehow less important to Syrian terrorists than a conference on Global Warming starting at the end of the month?

    “The sides participating in the Vienna talks: the US, UK, Russia, Turkey, China, Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Oman, Lebanon, Jordan, France, Italy, Germany as well as the European Union, and the United Nations.” Note the absence of any Syrians and Hezbollah and Isis. It is not clear if Iran was there. Where is Nobel Peace Prize recipient Al Gore when the world needs him? Surely he has an idea about Syria? This is all so inconvenient.

    OMG, for ecologists and global warming nutters, nothing is more important than their obsession with global warming, climate change and the new Climate Warming. Reality has upset their party in Paris.

    Worse, activists now push Climate Change without any logical connection to Global Warming. Carbon Dioxide produces Climate Change without any change in temperature. How does that work? This has gone from remotely plausible to very unlikely to fantasy to a science free zone. If you suggest the world has not warmed for twenty years, you are apparently being deceived by satellite data from Big Oil?

    We are now facing a crackpot religion with financial backing from big Wind, big Solar and even with support from Big Oil who want the price of oil to double again. How selfish and inconsiderate are those terrorists? Only Al Gore can save the world. Again.

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      doubting dave

      TdeF , yet another stand out comment from you, thanks for that. Incase your wondering how the mechanisms behind the run up to Paris work here is a link that i came across recently that gives a few pointers , its quite amusing in parts ; http://www.npr.org/2015/08/31/434599379/how-are-u-n-climate-talks-like-a-middle-school-cliques-rule : Notice the surname of the journalist responsible , it couldn’t be more apt for an environmental activist ,ive not listened to the radio link provided just read the article , in fact its worth an article in its own right on this blog .

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      Robert O

      Talking about Big Wind and Solar, have a look at AGL’s description of their solar plants at Nyngan and Broken Hill projecting 26% of nameplate capacity of 155MW, or 359,000 MWh annually; whereas most solar PV systems only produce approx. 16% of nameplate. Difficult to criticise now until there are some real production figures, but the problem is Minister Hunt is quoted as saying this is a win-win scenario. Who told him this, the industry lobbyists or departmental staff?

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        John in Oz

        Robert O:
        I agree that there needs to be more analysis of generation figures:
        In SA (where the government claim we are ideally suited for solar power) I have a 4.8KW (rated) solar system on a North facing roof with no shading which has been installed for 5 years. The generation figures are:
        Days 1881
        Generated 39007kWh
        Gen/day (avg) 20.7kW
        Hrs/day (avg) 4.3
        Effectiveness 17.8% (over 24 hrs/day)

        To reach 26% I need an additional 2+ hours/day of maximum generation.

        This is another area where the media and politicians do not seem to ask in-depth questions on the generation claims of green energy.

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          Robert O

          John, my 3 KW system produced 4490 KWh for 2014-15 up until 31st. October, or 13 Kwh daily; the panels face the west and I don’t get much production until 11 am., but on a good day it still works until 5 pm. Being in Cairns (17 degrees south) the best month is usually October, 450-490 KWh, and worst is June about 250 KWh, due to the prevailing cloud. The best daily figure I have seen is 19 KWh, but one needs a blue sky day for this and as summer is approaching there is more cloud and production can be low as 7-8 KWh. daily. Cleaning the panels regularly helps quite a bit as it is dusty due to subdivision works.

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        • #

          It doesn’t surprise me that PV systems “perform well” in Australia.

          The nominal rating is based on “one sun”; 1000 W/m² of insolation.

          When you measure it under a clear sky in Australia, you get a peak quite close to that of the top-of-atmosphere solar radiation; around “1.3 suns”

          UWA’s physics students built a hot-air, solar balloom out of black and clear plastic that they tethered to the courtyard next to reflection pond for an Open Day. The packing tape that they used to restrain the balloon probably softened in the heat and the excess uplift; as they’d used “one sun” as their source of heat; combined for the uncontrolled release of an aviation hazard. Without a retro-reflector, it was invisible to air traffic radars.

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        • #
          Robk

          If you want to seriously check the energy harvested from your domestic PV array you do need to check the calibration of the voltage and amperage sensors (generally trimable by software which may not be user accessible or you could multiply by an adjustment factor). For comparing one day to another calibration is less critical.

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      • #
        mikerestin

        Both agreed it was a win win.
        For them.

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      Ross

      TeF

      Those most amazing thing about the piece by Tickell is that it appears to have been written and posted online within 24hrs of the tragedy. The guy needs help.
      My bet is that none of the AGW crowd –the Guardian , The Age etc. will NOT call him out on this dribble.

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    ralph ellis

    They keep saying this, but it is rubbish.

    Back in 1981 Hafez Assad, the father of Bashar Assad, faced exactly the same uprising, and for exactly the same reasons. And he put down the uprising in the same fashion (see below). But because there was no interference from the West only 30,000 were slaughtered instead of 300,000. So in the name of being nice and saving people, the historically and religiously ignorant politicians of the West have killed 270,000 people and exiled 4 million more. Do they know nothing of Eastern politics?

    The Hamma massacre:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Hama_massacre

    So coming back to the drought business – are they really saying that it was a drought that caused the 1981 uprising in Syria? Are they that ignorant, or that conniving?? In reality, this is a sectarian dispute that goes back 1,300 years, and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to to with droughts, oil pipelines, Israel, President Bush, the CIA, Mossad, or the Tooth Fairy.

    Politicians who know nothing of history should be banned from parliament, before they destroy us all.

    Ralph

    P.S.
    This is not 20-20 hindsight. I wrote about this in 2011 and successfully campaigned against the West opposing Assad.

    .

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      OriginalSteve

      Except this time as the Mid East is being redrawn alonmg the the lines of The Penagons New Map ( google it ) and calls for the removal of all despots and dictators and kicking all countries into a “functioning core” that can be effectively centrally controlled by the coming world govt ( UN ).

      The whole Mid East ( and parts of africa ) is in uproar to achieve this single goal. Basically anywhere you see unrest, the over-arching idea is to install in EVERY contry a compliant govt that will tug its forlock at the UN.

      The pentagons new map requires Suadi to fall – it will be carved up. Iran will become more powerful. The Medes ( Kurds ) will form their own state in Iraq and hand out hefty payback to the Sunnis.

      If people want to understand, reseach The Pentagons New Map. All is explained.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon's_New_Map
      http://www.amazon.com/The-Pentagons-Thomas-P-M-Barnett/dp/0425202399

      “Building on the works of Friedman, Huntington, and Fukuyama, and then taking a leap beyond, Barnett crystallizes recent American military history and strategy, sets the parameters for where our forces will likely be headed in the future, outlines the unique role that America can and will play in establishing international stability-and provides much-needed hope at a crucial yet uncertain time in world history.

      For anyone seeking to understand the Iraqs, Afghanistans, and Liberias of the present and future, the intimate new links between foreign policy and national security, and the operational realities of the world as it exists today, The Pentagon’s New Map is a template, a Rosetta stone. Agree with it, disagree with it, argue with it-there is no book more essential for 2004 and beyond.”

      Hint – its creating a policial “Borg Collective”

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        KinkyKeith

        Haven’t looked yet but sounds intriguing.

        KK

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      • #
        ralph ellis

        .
        >>the Mid East is being redrawn alonmg the the
        >>lines of The Penagons New Map.

        Nonsense. We know Donald Rumsfeld tried to make Iraq a ‘shining beacon of democracy in the Mid East’, because he said so. But that was predictably doomed to failure, because they had no clue. (I cannot tell you what he should have done, as the mods have said that this is against Australian law, and deleted my posts.)

        So the US effort to redraw the Mid East as a new democratic region of peace and harmony failed after the gulf war. And everything that has happened there since, has been locally inspired by the same old tribalism and sectarianism that has plagued the region for the last 1,200 years, and is fully documented in the history of the region. Everything happening now has parallels a thousand years old or more. Look up the Dead Cities of Aleppo, and see what happened to them. And remember that these cities were abandoned during the invasions by lsIamic forces, so were not due to ‘climate change’ as many history books try to say.

        The attempt to blame everything happening in the Mid East upon the US and lsraeI is Mid East disinformation. And it may seem strange, but this Mid East propaganda is being spread in the West by various selbsthast traiitors who want to see their own culture destroyed. Unbelievable, but true.

        Ralph

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Well I got one “hot” response – that was expected…..likely I’m too close to the bone.

          So far the Pentagons New Map has been spot on – the problem is, people cant get their heads around the concept that history is in one of two categories – directed, or chaotic.

          The Pentagons New Map is actually a sophisticated timeline and agenda for re-ordering the world. You will notice the mention of “core” and “non-functioning core” nations. It falls clearly into “directed history”. The current carry-on in Syria is for one purpose only – removal of non-compliant dictator Assad and replacement with a compliant govt that will do as its told.

          Heres a shocker for a few people – Iraq is purely Vietnam Mk 2 – it wasnt designed ot be actually *won* ( “MIssion accomplished ….rememeber that..? )- it was designed to fragment the ciountry to allow its re-design into Kurd & other secotrs, ultimately to allow the removal of a dictator ( Hussein ).

          Africa is another area targetted.

          I think epopel also need ot get their heads around America acting unilaterally – they dont – they are *directed* – they function as a global battering ram to kick people into line. The PNM is about re-organisation – its not about winning wars – when you look at it through that lens, it all makes a lot of sense.

          I’m not having a go atthe USA or its allies, rather just pointing out the *why* for allt he chasing of terrorists around the globe. And to be perfectly frank , “stuff” happens as needed to ensure the right “reasons” are created to allow the right “action” to be taken at the appropriate time.

          People need to think at a much higher level – look at things from a much higher view point.

          It is what it is.

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            ralph ellis

            You are spouting the same anti-West propaganda that we see from the East – that the whole world is the puppet of the ClA and Mo$$ad. The world’s 1.6 MosIems are merely pawns of the West and lsraeI and have no free will. Which is childish nonsense, and one wonders why anyone who benefits from Western freedoms would repeat and promote it.

            In reality, the US is particular has been very poorly advised and has been on the back of the drag-curve for decades. Because they don’t understand the history and the rationale of the region, they have been reduced to fire-fighting, not planning. The US is not rulling the world, they are the world’s ‘rabbit in the headlights’.

            R

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    Yonniestone

    I agree, over the years climate change/global warming has driven me to commit extreme acts of satire.

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    Manfred

    The eco-insanity that routinely pervades ‘climate change‘ appears to have morphed into a frank howling at the moon. It will doubtless plunder new depths of hitherto unimaginable daftness, as the climate meme is astroturfed on anabolic steroids with COP21 closing fast.

    And yet, within all this hysteria, quietly sliding into the UK news is the recent prediction made by the British Met Office,
    “British winter could feel longer and colder because of El Nino
    This year’s El Nino will be one of the strongest in 50 years and is likely to bring a cold snap at the end of winter”

    Apparently, “the Met Office believe they are now better placed to predict freak winter weather” states The Telegraph

    Interestingly, ‘climate change’ remains unspoken, unmentioned throughout the article, but the fearmongering remains unchanged and palpable. It’s as pathetic as it is sickening and tedious.

    According to the WHO this year is currently forecast to be the warmest on record which experts say could interact with El Nino, modifying the weather even in ‘ways which we have never before experienced’

    “While difficult to predict, the El Niño this year looks set to be the strongest on record,” said a spokeswoman for the Department for International Development.

    “This is a real threat to people’s lives, health and livelihoods across the world, which will see increased calls for humanitarian assistance as people struggle to grow crops, face water shortages and disease.”

    El Nino – which means ‘the boy child’ because it was first observed at Christmas – is linked to major global climate events including monsoons in India, heavy rain and storms in North America and Europe including the UK, and floods in Australia.

    It occurs every two to seven years and is already bringing havoc agross the globe.

    Experts warned that Britain could be impacted by rising prices in coffee, rice, sugar and cocoa as staple crops in tropical regions are hit by flooding and droughts.

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    Roy Hogue

    If only we had more electric cars and windmills, lives could’ve been saved.

    Or

    If only we had the will to act constructively, lives could’ve been saved.

    I wonder which would do us the more good.

    I have this wild dream of those who are failing to defend us having their windmills stuck up their appropriate anatomy. It’s hopeless I know. But wouldn’t it be an amazing sight to see?

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    Ruairi

    World leaders will make great orations,
    To the C.O.P.21 delegations,
    That world conflicts are due,
    To man-made CO2,
    Which they blame on the ‘Western’ nations.

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    Rico L

    Interestingly enough, they haven’t moved COP21 to Syria. If they are blaming the situation in Syria on Climate Change, it makes sense to go over and check out the problem first hand. They can then see for themselves how the change in climate is affecting the people and make a much better decision on how to solve it. By not moving the meeting to Syria, it is obvious that they don’t actually believe the climate has anything to do with what is going on.

    The Japanese have a phrase – Genchi Genbutsu, go look, go see. If you want to solve the problem, you need to go and see it!

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    el gordo

    ‘U.S. military officials refer to climate change as a “threat multiplier”

    They are just making stuff up, it seems like only yesterday that the pentagon was concerned about abrupt climate change.

    Slow global warming could be managed, whereas runaway global cooling will be a lot harder to contain. Monsoon failure is part of the effect and would have a negative impact on the India stock market.

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    • #
      el gordo

      “Any federal agency should be thinking about preparing for abrupt climate change,” says Roger Pielke, policy expert from the University of Colorado, Boulder and another author of the NRC report. He compares abrupt climate change to an asteroid impacting the earth, a “low probability, high consequence event” for which policymakers should prepare.

      ‘Daniel Sarewitz, director of the Columbia University Center for Science, Policy and Outcomes in Washington, D.C., makes a similar analogy by comparing abrupt climate change to an earthquake rather than a terrorist attack. For earthquakes, policy experts focus on preparation; for terrorism, they focus on prevention. Like an earthquake, abrupt climate change is highly unpredictable and cannot be controlled. Therefore preparation is critical since prevention may not be possible.’

      JYI / Hsu Jeremy 2004

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    • #
      Peter C

      Monsoon failure is part of the effect

      I can assure,you that the monsoon has not failed this year in Chennai, Tamil Nadu.
      http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/heavy-rainfall-throws-life-out-of-gear-in-tamil-nadu-traffic-badly-hit-71-killed-so-far/

      Travel has been severely restricted. Today we tried to travel north on the main rd but were forced back after 120 km because the road was cut by floodwaters, which have inundated a lot of the land. The round trip took 8 hours.

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  • #

    An ultimate bottom line for humans is that ideas matter and fundamental ideas matter most. It makes little difference if those ideas are held explicitly or implicitly, they are still in control of what people think, believe to be important, and do. Ask the question, “What are the ideas held by our so called leaders as fundamental and are they conducive to our living and thriving?” If not, why not?

    A clue as to why not: Changing the name of a thing does not change the thing. It is what it is. It is up to us to discover what it is and to become prepared to deal with it as it is. Rather than, as many are now doing, by dealing with it according to what it is called.

    This is important only if you want to continue living. If you don’t, simply do nothing and you will soon not be alive. Otherwise, you will have to do something and that something had better be the right thing to do given the circumstances.

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    Neville

    I hope we are still allowed to link to Ken Stewart’s latest post on the UAH V 6 data.
    The globe hasn’t warmed for 18 yrs 6 mths and OZ is now 18 yrs 1 mth. Perhaps Sanders should follow the proper data bases.

    https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2015/11/11/the-pause-october-2015-update/

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    PeterS

    I’m not disturbed by such thinking of itself. What I am disturbed is there are many people in various walks of life who actually believe in this nonsense. That scares me because what else do they believe? What other up-side-down logic do they have in their puny little brains? Surely such people need to be re-educated, and if that fails they belong in prison to set an example and maintain a viable and healthy society. Otherwise, such thinking will eat away our way of life like a cancer eats away a body, and eventually it dies.

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      TdeF

      Can’t say I agree about the puny brains. Some quite clever but busy professional people with good sized brains believe what they are told incessantly by the CSIRO, ABC, SBS, UN, NASA, National Geographic (Magazine and documentaries), David Attenborough, Al Gore, the IPCC, Tim Flannery, Bernie Frazer, Greg Hunt, Malcolm Turnbull and even their local council and every university and the AMA.

      The list is endless. Some of the most susceptible are medical doctors who by profession have to believe everything they are told. One year you have to slip, slop, slap to prevent skin cancer and the next you have to get out in the sun to get Vitamin D to prevent osteoporosis. Short of reviewing the literature themselves and questioning everything, they are too busy to read anything but headlines. Even the fact that the world is not heating is denied vigorously. The fact that the world’s oceans are alkali and cannot be acid is never published. Lord Monckton is openly ridiculed and in the Australian press, he is not a Lord even though it is in his passport.

      Then you get mothers and grandparents who are easily scared for their children and their children’s children. Do not underestimate the power of misinformation and it is incessant and pervasive. Add movies like the Day after Tomorrow and the fact that every landslide, hurricane, drought, disaster is reported instantly in a world which a hundred years before took months to find out about Krakatoa.

      The only solution to this wall of misinformation is ready access to the right information. Some people though are just too busy. So it has been the job of many to try to correct this and in the face of ridicule, personal attacks and public scorn and a media love of disaster scenarios. After all, who reports that Ebola has been beaten? No, it is through blogs like Jo’s which give people hope that collectively at a million bbqs and a billion dinner parties, the views of sceptics can reach the many. The media are not interested in the truth, especially the extremely left News media and public service organizations.

      When this is over, it will never be mentioned again, except maybe as Global Cooling, caused of course by CO2.

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    This is yet again more propaganda for Paris Climat 2015. CO2 causes everything as usual!
    In reality Jihad today is still the Jihad endorsed in the Qur’an and Hadith. It has not changed for 1400 years since Mohammed first attacked the caravans to Mecca.

    The Qur’an has #164 Jihad Verses. A good example which is very clear is:

    Qur’an Chapter 5: Verse 33: “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be exiled.”

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    PeterH

    We should reduce dependency on 3rd world dictatorships for our energy needs.

    Drill Baby Drill. Remove the big oil card as a distraction in how we deal with the mideast.

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    Rod Stuart

    Ironically, the weather played an important role when the USA was invaded. (Scroll down to “Invading the United States (1814) “. Had it not been for an horrific storm, the Canadians might have stayed. The original and ultimate “occupy Washington” movement.

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      TdeF

      Really interesting article. I had always wondered about the war of 1812 and this explains a great deal. While a great fan of the US people, other historic American expansionist moves are similarly ignored as in Mexico, Hawaii, the Carribbean and the Phillipines and the attack on the Barbary pirates (From the halls of Monetezuma to the shores of Tripoli) are strangely missing from US history channels as they position themselves as the champions of the underdog, a real problem in Syria where once again they have backed the wrong freedom fighters against the ruling government. The most famous revolutionaries trained by the CIA include Ho Chi Minh and Osama Bin Laden. Under Obama and Clinton, this has been a rolling disaster from Libya to Syria, Egypt and possibly now Iran. As for warmist hairpiece John Kerry, he must be an embarrassment and Obama’s grandchildren can visit the Great Barrier Reef. UNESCO this year reported it is fine despite our refusal to have a carbon tax.

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    macha

    Sory Jo, but I reckon this post is off track. Whilst the globe may not be in catastrophic climatic condition, the prospect of violence and wide-spread weather changes (climate) does hold merit. It causes people to move location and its mass movement that results in violent confrontation. I,d stay clear of this….even tho its fear mongering.

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      TdeF

      Not overpopulation, non existent infrastructure (sewerage, roads, traffic lights, trucks, education, health,police, fair laws,..), tribal conflicts, religious conflicts, food shortages, lack of water, electricity or even desire for a better life? Why is climate always the new and only reason for mass migration/invasion? In the Middle East, climate has nothing to do with it. Beirut was not destroyed by climate change, nor Aleppo.

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        ralph ellis

        .
        Well said, TdeF. Climate Change can cause population movements, but in this case that is demonstrably not true. The problem in Syria is demonstrably a secterian conflict going back 1,300 years. See my post above.

        R

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      Yonniestone

      It’s occurred before macha, with the last LIA came some of the harshest weather in Europe 1550-1700, bringing huge crop failures and disease, some of the most educated declared witches were to blame using the power of Satan to Cook Weather, in 1580 it was declared that witchcraft was the biggest problem facing mankind, any skepitcs were accused of sorcery, 50,000 people were executed across Europe because of this hysteria.

      Weather Cooking Dr. Sally Baliunas.

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  • #
    pat

    16 Nov: ValueWalk: Vikas Shukla: Paris Climate Summit To Go Ahead With Reinforced Security
    The Paris climate summit will not be cancelled at any cost. Because if it is cancelled, “terrorism wins,” said French energy minister Segolene Royal…
    The United Nations estimates that more than 60,000 people including world leaders, envoys, representatives of NGOs, and the press will be in Paris to attend the conference…
    The group was divided on whether they should back a “differentiated” approach where developed countries carry an extra burden, or a “shared” approach that would require emerging countries to make larger cuts…
    http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/11/paris-climate-summit-security-france/

    Full text of G-20 leaders’ communique
    ANTALYA, Turkey, Nov. 16 (Yonhap)
    23. We recognize that actions on energy, including improving energy efficiency, increasing investments in clean energy technologies and supporting related research and development activities will be important in tackling climate change and its effects. We endorse the G20 Toolkit of Voluntary Options for Renewable Energy Deployment. We also highlight the progress made this year by participating countries in taking forward our collaboration on energy efficiency and agree to further support on a voluntary basis the 2015 outcomes of existing work streams on efficiency and emissions performance of vehicles, particularly heavy duty vehicles, networked devices, buildings, industrial processes and electricity generation, as well as financing for energy efficiency. We will continue to promote transparent, competitive and well-functioning energy markets, including gas markets. We stress the importance of diversification of energy sources and continued investments for increased energy security. We reaffirm our commitment to rationalise and phase-out inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage…
    24. Climate change is one of the greatest challenges of our time. We recognize that 2015 is a critical year that requires effective, strong and collective action on climate change and its effects…
    We affirm our determination to adopt a protocol, another legal instrument or an agreed outcome with legal force under the UNFCCC that is applicable to all Parties. Our actions will support growth and sustainable development. We affirm that the Paris agreement should be fair, balanced, ambitious, durable and dynamic. We underscore our commitment to reaching an ambitious agreement in Paris that reflects the principle of common but differentiated responsibilities and respective capabilities, in light of different national circumstances. We reaffirm that UNFCCC is the primary international intergovernmental body for negotiating climate change…
    http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2015/11/16/0200000000AEN20151116009200315.html

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      Richard Barnett

      Pat,

      The increasing scrutiny on the emmisions of heavy duty vehicles is worrisome. How will people in agriculture manage to deliver bulk feed stocks for milk and beef production, much less getting their livestock to market without heavy duty vehicles? Even delivery of organic fertilizers and transporting organically grown vegetables require heavy duty vehicles. Leads me to believe not only will the cost of energy become unaffordable but also the cost of food will increase as farmers and ranchers are forced to use lighter vehicles with fewer emissions, only to be forced to make more trips to market to purchase commodities and deliver the same amount of agricultural products produced. These folks creating this mess can not be confused with facts as has been demonstrated time and time again.

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    Neville

    Judy Curry has a new post looking at warming over the past 400 years. Co2 forcing doesn’t seem to be very convincing.
    Borehole proxies show strong warming for around 400 years.

    http://judithcurry.com/2015/11/16/400-years-of-warming/#more-20437

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    • #

      Neville, I went into great detail on the boreholes. I find them an excellent tool for suggesting global warming was global because they have such a wide coverage. They are pretty useless for dating though, totally dependent on assumptions of how fast the heat moves down. That’s where the other proxies come in. But yes, the MWP and the LIA were global, and the climate models have no idea what caused them.

      In this post you can see how many conflicting studies there are. They keep adjusting the assumptions to make it fit the hockeystick, but failing. http://joannenova.com.au/2012/11/the-message-from-boreholes/

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    Egor TheOne

    It is not CAGW that is causing problems ,because for nearly 19 years there has not been any !

    I love this graph ….this to a CAGW true b’lver is similar to presenting a crucifix to a vampire

    https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/clip_image002_thumb1.jpg?w=597&h=279

    The real problem is with the CAGW true b’lver policy … the proposal to deny billions of people cheap and plentiful energy in the name of a medieval belief/religion and the squandering of trillions on junk remedies for a non-existent problem dwarfs in comparison any terrorism both recent and past ……and yet the freedumbed down masses cheer for such Malthusian and Totalitarian Global madness !

    The real madness is not what has happened , but what is about to happen …..CON21 …..HERE WE GO .

    Listen carefully to Lindzen’s comments here >

    CO2 Regulation: The Essence of Immorality
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9bEOB3x0dQ

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      TdeF

      Thank you. However another presentation by a Nobel Prize winning physicist Ivar Giaever is much more in line with a scientists thinking, especially with even the concept of an earth temperature, which I consider near meaningless in terms of climate.

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    pat

    16 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Megan Darby: G20 leaders disappoint climate campaigners with weak statement
    Overshadowed by Paris terrorist attacks, major economies meet in Turkey backs 2C goal but makes no progress on contentious issues
    There was little sign of convergence on contentious issues ahead of December’s UN climate summit in Paris: how to ramp up ambition, share responsibility between rich and poor, and get finance flowing.
    India and Saudi Arabia reportedly objected to a review mechanism that would require countries to regularly update their climate plans…
    “The only thing G20 leaders had to say on climate was ‘see you at the climate summit’,” said Oxfam’s Steve Price-Thomas.
    “They have two more weeks to demonstrate the leadership needed to secure a successful deal. They must provide more money to help poor countries adapt and commit to revisit and ratchet up their current inadequate national emissions reduction targets.”…
    It (climate change) was still high on the agenda, with discussions running to 3am on Monday morning. But much of that time was spent debating whether the 2C warming limit – a globally accepted goal – should be included in the statement.
    Again, it was India and Saudi Arabia resisting, on the grounds they did not wish to pre-judge Paris. They ultimately backed down…
    Businesses could be made to reveal their carbon footprints, for example, so investors can judge how exposed they are to greenhouse gas emissions curbs.
    The idea was relegated to a footnote in the G20 communique. Under the heading “issues for further action”, it said: “We ask the FSB to continue to engage with public- and private- sector participants on how the financial sector can take account of climate change risks.”
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/11/16/g20-leaders-disappoint-climate-campaigners-with-weak-statement/

    16 Nov: ReutersCarbonPulse: Mike Szabo: ICE to buy trading platform Trayport for $650 million
    London-based Trayport’s platform is used mainly by brokers in the European over-the-counter (OTC) energy market, and is a subsidiary of GFI Group, which was acquired by BGC Partners in Mar. 2015.
    Atlanta-headquartered ICE, which had seen a significant drop in its OTC-based emissions trade over the past few years, said the acquisition will allow it to offer new services to participants in energy markets.
    “In addition, as energy markets in Asia continue to develop, ICE expects to extend the platform to support the development of these OTC markets,” it said…
    – See more at: http://carbon-pulse.com/ice-to-buy-trading-platform-trayport-for-650-million/#sthash.lgmALI1h.dpuf

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    pat

    16 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Aamir Saeed: Pakistan uproots mangroves to install coal-fired power plants
    Environmentalists warn Chinese-backed project will pollute the climate and damage a natural buffer against storms
    The project, known as Port Qasim Power Project, near Karachi will be jointly carried out by Chinese Power Construction Corp Ltd with 51% and Qatar’s Al Mirqab Capital with 49% stakes in the project with a total cost of US$2.1 billion.
    The plants are being set up along the coastline of Arabian sea, where the government has uprooted mangrove forests to carve out a passage for the coal supply.
    The project is part of a broad bilateral deal called as China-Pak Economic Corridor under which the Chinese government and banks will finance Chinese companies to invest $45.6 billion worth of energy and infrastructure projects in Pakistan over the next six years…
    Naeem Ahmad Mughal, director general of the Environmental Protection Agency, said the investors are building waste water treatment plants and exclusive landfill sites for the ash disposal to minimise the environmental hazards.
    “We are taking strict measures to ensure complete compliance of all the environment-friendly conditions agreed by the investors,” he said, adding they are also planning to plant mangroves along the coastline to compensate the loss…
    According to government data, Pakistan has coal resources of more than 185.5 billion tonnes. If half of these resources were exploited, it would be enough to generate 100,000 megawatts of electricity for 30 years…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/11/16/pakistan-uproots-mangroves-to-install-coal-fired-power-plants/

    Pakistan needs some FOUR-YEAR-OLD climate activists!

    13 Nov: Quartz: Ana Campoy: Kid environmentalists have derailed a $900 million development in a popular Mexican resort town
    A group of kids in Cancun, one of Mexico’s hottest resort towns, has stopped the razing of dozens of hectares of mangrove forest for a massive development—for now.
    On Nov. 4, a judge granted the children’s request to permanently suspend the 69-hectare mixed-use project, but ruled that the children should pay a bond of 21 million pesos (about US$1.2 million) to offset developers’ losses. The group’s attorneys are trying to convince the court that the bond should not apply to minors…
    ***“If we cut everything down then we’re going to die,” Ana, a FOUR-YEAR-OLD plaintiff, told Quartz. “Trees help us breathe.”…But over the past three decades, it’s lost 10% of it, data from the commission shows…
    Mexico has more mangrove-covered surface than most countries…
    http://qz.com/548754/kid-environmentalists-have-derailed-a-900-million-development-in-a-popular-mexican-resort-town/

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    pat

    Seb Henbest (Bloomberg New Energy Finance – Head of EMEA, formerly Head of Carbon and Clean Energy Research in Australia) set the new ***ENERGY meme at an unreported BNEF sponsored meeting with Met Office, etc, on 9 Nov in UK.

    Twitter UK Climate Choices
    9 Nov: Tweet by Bloomberg New Energy Finance: MT @sebhenbest: Great to have @metoffice & @theCCCuk @Bloomberg this AM. Privilege to host #ukclimatechoices
    9 Nov: Tweet by Seb Henbest: Science is the easiest bit! Communication and policy is the hardest part. We need to talk about ***ENERGY, not climate. #ukclimatechoices
    https://twitter.com/hashtag/ukclimatechoices?src=hash

    Harrabin adopts the ***ENERGY meme:

    16 Nov: CarbonBrief: In Conversation: Roger Harrabin and Richard Tol
    The interview was carried out as part of the Arts and Humanities Research Council-funded Stories of Change project based at the Open University. The Open University will has a recording of the interview on its website, but here is the full, unedited transcript.
    RH: We’re looking for, as I said, a discursive chat and we’re starting all our interviews in this series with a question: when did you first get interested in ***ENERGY?
    RT: that’s a very difficult question to start with. I studied Economics and Environmental Science. Energy already was then a very big component of Environmental Science I think 25-30 years ago…
    RH: Just looking at you now and from the point of view of the listeners, you look rather different from the average climate contrarian. They tend to be suited and booted and you have long hair and beard and a t-shirt. It’s a different look.
    RT: It is a different look, yes.
    RH: When you go to contrarian meetings, you’ll stand out a bit.
    RT: I rarely go to those meetings.
    RH: OK. Tell us about your t-shirt.
    RT: My t-shirt is by Cartoons by Josh. It says ‘Blackout Britain.’ It’s essentially about the risks that fortunately did not come true last winter about major blackouts in Britain. We may actually be looking at major blackouts coming winter…READ ON
    http://www.carbonbrief.org/in-conversation-roger-harrabin-and-richard-tol?utm_content=buffer84cce&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

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    PeterS

    So if drought in Syria has contributed to instability in the region then why is the French President sending an aircraft carrier there to, in his own words “I am not talking about deterring the IS but about eliminating it totally”. Will the aircraft carrier and all it’s weaponry help to stop the mythical global warming? Is that what the global warming scam artists now have us believe?

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    ROM

    Well at last it seems that the skeptics are close to finding the collapse of a major global entity may be about to happen due solely and entirely to the all powerful “climate change” of the global warming cultists.

    And if it does occur there won’t be any way of dodging the awful fact that the collapse was due entirely to the green warmist cultist’s attempts at “climate change” mitigation and reduction.
    So from that it can be inferred that a potential German economic and social collapse will be laid at the feet of “climate change” as the sole reason for the collapse.

    NotricksZone;

    Socially Explosive …More Than 1 Million German Households Had Power Shut Off Over Past Three Years!

    The social problems of the Energiewende are growing: Last year more households than ever saw their power get switched off. The reason is the rising price of electricity.”

    Spiegel also provides the figures for the previous years, and they too are horrific. In 2013 close 345,000 households lost their power, and in 2012 it was about 320,000. Over the past three years it all totals to be a whopping 1.025 million households!

    In a country of 82 million, the figures are socially explosive.

    Threatened 6.3 million times

    It’s a glaring paradox of the Energiewende: On the production side, power plants are losing billions of euros because they can no longer even get a modest price for their power, while on the consumer side more and more households are unable to afford the skyrocketing prices brought on by the mandatory infusion of expensive and unstable green energies into the German power grid. The once mighty German power grid now teeters on the brink of crumbling.

    The situation threatens to get far worse. Spiegel writes that “far more households have problems with their electric bills. According to the Bundesnetzagentur power utilities threatened their customers with power cut-offs 6.3 million times.”

    Spiegel writes that the price of electricity in Germany has doubled since 2002 in large part because of the renewable energy feed-in surcharge. Private households are the hardest hit; they have to pay some 45% more than the EU average (while German power producers get 30% less than the EU average)! The government-interfered market is grotesquely distorted.

    Spiegel reports that even more costs are on the way for 2016 with the average household expected to pay on average 40 euros per year more.

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    pat

    ***China “far more serious”??? at least FT is on board with the ENERGY meme!

    12 Nov: Financial Times: FT View: A climate deal in Paris need not be binding
    It is more important that a political pact drives energy investment
    Mr Kerry’s approach may seem to lack ambition, but it is not unreasonable. In preparation for Paris, governments are not being asked to sign up to a single internationally agreed measure such as a global carbon price. Instead, each has been asked to produce its own voluntary climate action targets. This may appear too light a touch, but the 160-odd nations that have thus far complied account for 90 per cent of global emissions — far more than the handful covered under the Kyoto accord.
    Tying these voluntary targets to a formal treaty would be counter-productive. If countries are asked to make binding commitments they will limit their promises to what they know they can deliver. A treaty would require ratification by the US Congress, something that is entirely unrealistic given the strength of Republican opposition…
    Still, the agreement being sketched out in Paris is worth having. It may not be cast in iron. But a deal would not only include the US but also China, ***which is now far more serious about cutting its emissions than it was at the Copenhagen summit in 2009. It should also set the direction of travel for ***energy investment. Over the next 15 years, some ***$90tn will be spent on infrastructure in the world’s ***energy systems, cities and farming sectors. An accord that covers most of the world’s nations will at least give countries pause before they pour investment into coal power plants rather than green technologies…
    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6e531eba-8931-11e5-90de-f44762bf9896.html

    Figueres always brings out the best in journalists!

    13 Nov: Financial Times: Pilita Clark: Dinner with the FT: Christiana Figueres
    Golden toads, chocolate shoes and too much hot water: the UN’s top climate change official talks about how to save the world from catastrophe
    She says she still talks to her father, who has been dead for 25 years. When Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary-general, first called to offer her the UN climate-change job, she flew back to the family farm in Costa Rica because that was where her father’s presence was “so much more felt”.
    “I asked him, ‘Should I do this?’ And it was such a powerful answer: ‘Yes!’ I didn’t dare do anything else.”
    Her father also nicknamed her pelotita, or “little ball”, she says, disarmingly revealing that she was “unbelievably overweight” as a child…
    Air travel is her “cardinal sin”, she says, even if she has bought enough carbon offsets to last “for the rest of my life”. The past four months alone have been a whirl of trips, from Peru to Paris to New York. There’s been dinner with Prince Charles; breakfast with Todd Stern, US climate envoy, countless chats with people such as Tony Hayward, chairman of the Glencore mining company…
    What did she talk about with him (Pope Francis)?
    They talked about where things were at in the negotiations, “and he just asked me to keep on working”, she says, choking up suddenly and turning away as her eyes well up with tears.
    “That’s lovely,” I stammer, frantically trying to think of a calming follow-up question. Happily, the waiter picks this moment to arrive with our main meals…
    “I’m having curried vegetables,” she says. “I’m a vegetarian.”
    For how long? I ask.
    “Two years.”
    Why?
    “Because of the data,” she says.;;
    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/fea473c0-87be-11e5-90de-f44762bf9896.html

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      This gets up my craw: (with respect to Christiana Figueres)

      Air travel is her “cardinal sin”, she says, even if she has bought enough carbon offsets to last “for the rest of my life”.

      As if paying the offsets cancels it out, and they actually believe it.

      It’s like a heroin addict saying that it’s OK, because for every hit I have, I donate 20 cents to a rehab clinic.

      Tony.

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        Dennis

        I was amazed to watch a women being interviewed a few years ago saying that her husband had given her carbon offsets in place of Christmas presents, and how happy she was that now she could now tell her children that their parents are doing what they can to save the planet.

        Crazy.

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        • #
          Rod Stuart

          There are some gullible, ignorant, misinformed, and uninformed out there to be sure.
          I am reminded of a story Rereke told some time about a woman canvassing for donations to save the penguins from the Polar bears.

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          Manfred

          Crazy, yes of course.
          Absolute belief suspends rational thought, rendering her indistinguishable from a seal, or a rabid dog for that matter.
          In reality it probably doesn’t embrace her entire psychology as cognitive dissonance is an amazing conglomeration of madness and sanity, enabling to function much as an idiot savant. A few islands of normalcy in a sea of otherwise uncertain greyness.

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    sillyfilly

    Luckily Roy Spencer is not subject to 18C but shows he is completely unhinged(SNIP 18C).

    Yes, all of the world’s politicians who have supported a COP21 agreement should still plan on attending. And they should reach out to ISIS to join them in building a better world…a world without droughts.
    In fact, in solidarity with the gun-control measures many of those politicians support (and which French law follows), any personal security personnel accompanying them should be unarmed.

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      SillyF, I realize satire is an unknown genre for you. You should look it up. But then you’d need a sense of humour.

      Those with creative intelligence are just toying with your strait-jacketed linear brain.

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    Dan Pangburn

    Perhaps climate sometimes causes human evil, but human activity has no significant effect on climate.

    The data which show CO2 has no effect on average global temperature already exist.

    The relation between mathematics and the physical world mandates that, for a forcing to have an effect, it must exist for a period of time. The temperature changes with time in response to the net forcing. If the forcing varies, (or not) the effect is determined by the time-integral of the forcing (or the time-integral of a function thereof).

    The atmospheric CO2 level has been above about 150 ppmv (necessary for evolution of life on land as we know it) for at least the entire Phanerozoic eon (the last 542 million or so years). If CO2 was a forcing, its effect on average global temperature (AGT) would be calculated according to its time-integral (or the time-integral of a function thereof) for at least 542 million years. Because there is no way for that calculation to consistently result in the current AGT, CO2 cannot be a forcing.

    Variations of this demonstration and identification of what does cause climate change (R^2 > 0.97) are at http://agwunveiled.blogspot.com

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    John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia.

    Re: Drought in Syria. Joe Bastardi talks about the so called drought link to the rise in terrorism in Nigeria and Syria. Starts at about 2:32 minutes.
    http://www.weatherbell.com/saturday-summary-november-14-2015

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    observa

    Is it a coincidence that the terrorist outrage in Paris was committed weeks before [the UN’s] COP21, the biggest climate conference since 2009? Perhaps. But failure to reach a strong climate agreement now looks more probable.

    Why? Surely the implacable 40,000 are not going to let a few lone wolf [snip] terrorists deter them from saving good [folks] everywhere from the wrath of Gaia? Man up guys and gals with those poley bear suits as there’s a planet to save.
    [Modified because clause 18C of the Racial Vilification Act leaves Jo very vulnerable should anyone claim to be offended.] Fly

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      ianl8888


      Modified because clause 18C of the Racial Vilification Act leaves Jo very vulnerable should anyone claim to be offended

      And that’s absolutely extraordinary … one could feel offended about almost anything, even the existence of 18C

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        observa

        Yes but in this day and age and with the imprimatur of the State hauling the Catholic Church into Court over their attitude to changing the definition of marriage, Jo doesn’t need the grief. Perhaps we should use Episcopalian as code for the ‘M’ word nowadays as I doubt they’ll be offended by the obvious cultural contrast.

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    pat

    presumably Hunt has been on ABC, telling them what they want to hear. not documented online as yet, but Ch9 has this AAP piece too:

    17 Nov: Herald Sun: AAP: Paris summit shows ‘we won’t be deterred’
    Environment Minister Greg Hunt believes the world is determined for the United Nations climate change summit to go ahead in Paris to signal “we will not be deterred”…
    Mr Hunt, who left pre-summit talks in Paris just days before the attacks, told ABC television the conference was a way of saying the world would not be deterred…
    Mr Hunt is confident a possible five-year review process will mean countries will eventually pledge to slash emissions enough for the two degree goal…
    Australia was “in line” to agree to an OECD call to phase out international coal export credits despite not actually providing any itself.
    The country was progressively transitioning from coal to renewables, Mr Hunt said.
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/paris-summit-shows-we-wont-be-deterred/news-story/b131c58698f583af9b59b2127f7ea582

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      PeterPetrum

      I wrote to my MP, Louise Marcus, to tell her that if the team of Turnbill, Bishop and Hunt as much as lifted up a pen in Paris and got anywhere near signing anything about anything at all, my vote was lost at the next election. She actually rang me today (is this a record?) to tell me that Bishop had circulated all MPs with a memo to say that Australia would not be signing anything in Paris! She also said, with respect to the Climate Change Fund (Bob Brown’s Bank) that Australia would be the co-chair and would have say in how the funds (including our $200,000,000) is spent.

      I am not sure who is kidding who, but at least Louise was concerned enough to ring me!

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    Sunray

    Thank you Jo, I have learnt at least one important fact from a generation of Warmist Zealots, that is, that they are nowhere near as intelligent as I used to think they were.

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    pat

    Greg Hunt -

    you should stop dancing to the CAGW cronies’ tune, and face reality:

    16 Nov: NoTricksZone: More Than 1 Million German Households Had Power Shut Off Over Past Three Years!
    By P Gosselin
    The online Spiegel has an article that really drives home the energy hardship that German consumers are suffering, “due to the rising costs of electricity“, brought on by the country’s hasty rush into green energies…
    Spiegel writes that “far more households have problems with their electric bills.
    According to the Bundesnetzagentur power utilities threatened their customers with power cut-offs 6.3 million times.” Spiegel writes that the price of electricity in Germany has doubled since 2002 in large part because of the renewable energy feed-in surcharge. Private households are the hardest hit; they have to pay some 45% more than the EU average (while German power producers get 30% less than the EU average)!
    The government-interfered market is grotesquely distorted…
    http://notrickszone.com/2015/11/16/socially-explosive-more-than-1-million-german-households-had-power-shut-off-over-past-three-years/#sthash.97kLw2YU.dpbs

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    pat

    when the CIA is worried about CAGW, you know it must be real! LOL:

    16 Nov: CNS News: CIA Director Cites ‘Impact of Climate Change’ as Deeper Cause of Global Instability
    Speaking today at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C., Central Intelligence Agency Director John Brennan said that CIA analysts see “climate change” as a “deeper cause” of the instability seen in places like Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, Yemen and Libya.
    “Mankind’s relationship with the natural world is aggravating these problems and is a potential source of crisis itself,” Brennan said at one point in his speech. “Last year was the warmest on record, and this year is on track to be even warmer.”…
    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/cnsnewscom-staff/cia-director-cites-impact-climate-change-deeper-cause-global

    16 Nov: CIA: Brennan Delivers Remarks at the Center for Strategic & International Studies Global Security Forum 2015
    Remarks for CIA Director John O. Brennan as Prepared for Delivery at the Center for Strategic & International Studies Global Security Forum 2015
    Extreme weather, along with public policies affecting food and water supplies, can worsen or create humanitarian crises. Of most immediate concern, sharply reduced crop yields in multiple places simultaneously could trigger a shock in food prices with devastating effect, especially in already fragile regions such as Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia. Compromised access to food and water greatly increases the prospect for famine and deadly epidemics…
    https://www.cia.gov/news-information/speeches-testimony/2015-speeches-testimony/brennan-remarks-at-csis-global-security-forum-2015.html

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    pat

    16 Nov: CTV: U.S. senator who supports carbon capture now critical of Sask. project
    An American senator who has promoted the importance of carbon- capture technology is suggesting that he’s been misled about its success in Saskatchewan.
    Sen. Joe Manchin says the carbon-capture facility at the Boundary Dam power plant has “failed to operate successfully for any meaningful period of time.”
    Manchin is also critical of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for including the Saskatchewan project in its greenhouse gas emissions standards.
    “Many of the glowing performance results cited by EPA in the final rule have been found to be nothing more than marketing spin and hyperbole, with the true results reflecting a very troubled project, particularly in the CCS technology area,” Manchin wrote in a letter last week to Gina McCarthy, administrator of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
    He also questions how much time the EPA spent at the Boundary Dam site and asks how the agency missed “the persistent unsuccessful performance and shutdowns throughout 2015.”…
    http://regina.ctvnews.ca/u-s-senator-who-supports-carbon-capture-now-critical-of-sask-project-1.2661267

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      Manfred

      An American senator who has promoted the importance of carbon- capture technology is suggesting that he’s been misled about its success in Saskatchewan.

      Utter Dimwit. Paraphrasing what Edward de Bono once said, ‘people rise to the level of their incompetence’.
      As we should demand more of our elected representatives, they have a sacred duty to ask more of themselves, difficult as it may be.

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    Egor TheOne

    If CAGW causes terrorism , then a great big new co2 tax will be the best counter terrorist defense !……..Whooops !…… Better not give the Eco-Loons ideas!

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    RB

    Why aren’t sceptics or executives of Big Oil covered by 18C? It really is offensive to be labelled a denier or anti-scientific.

    It causes me a lot of stress to have to believe this rubbish when even the IPCC has not found a strong link between droughts and climate change (or time). The pause kind of puts the correlation between climate change and CO2 levels in doubt. Dr Evans has shown that even the basic science doesn’t conclusively support a climate sensitivity greater than a fraction of a degree and CO2 levels have far from doubled.

    And it hasn’t even been proven beyond reasonable doubt that the levels of CO2 have increased due to human emissions. It was 40-50ppm greater in 1960 then pre-industrial times, when human emissions were less than half a percent of natural sources for that period. Gaia sure is a sensitive old gal.

    Now I’m told by people about to fly to Paris that it was me, by driving my car, who is to blame for ISIS when political scientist/deniers describe it as a resurgence of radical Whabism of the early 19th C, when the CO2 levels were just right.

    Who’s going to pay for my inability to leave the house?

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      Retired now

      RB, I’ve thought something similar but I’m torn. I don’t know whether we should use 18C for our benefit, or fight against it. But I suspect in practice there will be at least two interpretations. If you are of the indigenous/SJW/leftie group you are allowed to be offended. But ordinary non-indigenous people, non SJW, etc would be judged to be just silly if they say they are offended. I don’t think we could win.

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        RB

        I’m going to tell them that my great grandfather was the an aboriginal elder who mined coal for the local Anthracite people. I’ll use 18c to stop them offending me by checking.

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    pat

    not surprisingly, I can’t find any coverage of the G20 communique and it’s watered-down CAGW remarks on ABC or in Fairfax.

    the best the Australian MSM has is:

    G20 backs drive for Paris pact on climate
    Echonetdaily – ‎10 hours ago‎

    AAP: G20 leaders draft 2C climate deal
    Leaders of the world’s top economies have vowed to seek a deal to stave off catastrophic global warming at an upcoming UN conference in Paris, according to a draft statement drawn up at a summit in Turkey…

    reality:

    16 Nov: Financial Times: India slows progress on ambitious climate change accord
    by Alex Barker in Antalya and Pilita Clark in London
    India has blocked G20 efforts to pave the way for an ambitious climate change accord in a sign of deep divisions just two weeks before delegates from almost 200 nations meet in Paris…
    A senior EU official at the meeting of world leaders in Antalya said: “At certain times I was feeling that we’re not living on the same planet.”…
    India said it did not want the G20 to interfere in the Paris talks and blocked even a general reference to discussions on “periodic monitoring”.
    If other big economies follow suit, the weakening of the final accord would raise doubts about the UN’s ability to do anything to combat climate change…
    Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, said that “after long talks overnight” the world leaders agreed to include the 2C target in the G20 statement.
    “But it is clear that a whole host of talks will still be necessary to make sure that we can make progress in Paris,” she said. “This has to be a success.”…
    However a caveat was inserted stating that negotiators would have to engage “flexibly” in Paris, which some officials saw as watering down even the general G20 statement of intent made in Antalya…
    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/de7a31b6-8c55-11e5-8be4-3506bf20cc2b.html

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    pat

    Oliver Tickell not happy:

    16 Nov: The Ecologist: Oliver Tickell: Weeks before COP21, G20 fail the climate challenge
    In the run-up to the COP21 climate summit in Paris the G20′s Antalya Communique is weaker on climate, fossil fuel subsidies and support for renewable energy than the G20′s 2009 Pittsburgh Statement made shortly before the failed COP15 in Copenhagen six years ago…
    The text, released today just weeks before the COP21 climate talks in Paris, is feeble on all environmental issues and lacks clear commitments on boosting renewable energy, climate change or ending fossil fuel subsidies…
    In particular it proposes no way forward on how to raise the hundreds of billions of dollars a year required for the Green Climate Fund – created by COP15 in 2009 as a means to provide climate finance to developing countries.
    Even the commitment to an “agreed outcome with legal force” leaves space for a legally-binding ‘shell’ treaty with all the key action points and national commitments to reduce or constrain emissions set aside into non-binding appendices…
    Renewable energy out in the cold as coal spending surges…
    The G20′s 2015 text lacks any commitment to renewable energy…
    However the 2015 communique’s corresponding ‘Issues for Further Action’ contains no mention of energy, environment or climate…
    The message the G20 are sending is clear: climate change, renewable energy and ending fossil fuel subsidies are all much less important now than they were in 2009 – and will be pursued with even less urgency…
    http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_round_up/2986298/weeks_before_cop21_g20_fail_the_climate_challenge.html

    ditto Blue&GreenTomorrow:

    16 Nov: Blue&GreenTomorrow: G20 Turkey Communique a major missed opportunity to change the game on climate
    Turkish civil society and climate groups from across Turkey and the world have responded to today’s G20 Leaders Communiqué with a mix of shock and disappointment…
    Groups as diverse as The Pentagon, the US Department of Defence, The Atlantic Council, NATO, the Global Military Advisory Council On Climate Change (GMACC), the Council for Security Cooperation in the Asia Pacific (CSCAP) and the Australian Defence Force have all concluded that climate change is one of the most serious security threats to the globe and that serious and immediate action is required…
    “The G20 Leaders have failed to grasp this most basic of facts that the science illustrates so compellingly. Many people around the world had seen the G20 as the perfect moment for Heads of State (HoS) to gather ahead of the COP, push the agenda on climate harder and make the work needed in Paris a fortnight later for COP21 just that little bit easier,” Christian Eicheinmuller Turkey Representative of Heinrich Boll Stiftung said…
    “The threat of new and expanding coal plants and mines in Turkey remains unattended to. This is deeply shameful, people are sick and dying from filthy coal and plans are afoot for international finance to build even more – this is a global problem of major significance,” Cem İskender Aydın from TEMA Foundation said…
    “We must hope that these Leaders display the leadership in Paris that they failed to deliver here in Turkey on all matters to do with climate change, the most pressing of our global problems. The world is depending on it and the world is most certainly watching,” Umit Şahin said.
    http://blueandgreentomorrow.com/2015/11/16/g20-turkey-communique-a-major-missed-opportunity-to-change-the-game-on-climate/

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    [...] JoNova – The Ecologist speculates that the aim of the ISIS terrorists, who have claimed [...]

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    LightningCamel

    OK. I can live with that. Thanks.

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    Rod McLaughlin

    “For commenters, thanks to Australia’s 18C laws on racial vilification — even if you are not discussing a race, but a meme or a religion…”

    This is not quite clear. What kinds of thing are you telling commenters to avoid saying?

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    Alan

    Interesting to see what John Brennan, Director of the C.I.A.said at the Global Security Forum on November 16, 2015

    cia.gov/news-information/speeches-testimony/2015-speeches-testimony/brennan-remarks-at-csis-global-security-forum-2015.html

    Scroll down about half way and look for the words “warmer” and warmest”.

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    ScotsmaninUtah

    Bernie Sanders says that we should stop terrorists by reducing our carbon emissions

    Politicians will say anything to get elected , but Sanders crossed the line with this appalling lack of judgement.
    It is very disrespectful to all of those who died , what a truly disgusting thing to say, especially in the light of what has happened in Paris.

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    J Martin

    Is there enough lithium in the world to build millions of electric cars ?

    If the USA stops importing mid East oil it will simply be sold elsewhere,so the terrorists will continue to be funded.

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    Wayne Job

    18C indeed,the true believers of AGW and the religion that shall not be named take severe offence against all non believers.

    That makes all here committing a terrible thought crime, there are some places in this world whereby thoughts such as these,
    can have serious consequences for one health.

    Re-education of true believers into the real world is the biggest challenge that we face, a figure I found recently of an average IQ
    in places such as we are having trouble with is around 82, there-in lays a big problem. De-proggraming not wasy.

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    John Robertson

    As usual the bureaucrats have it backwards.
    Just as wasting a colossal amount of tax dollars on useless stuff is considered “investment”by government.

    Terrorism causes Climate Change.
    This can be seen by the astonishing correlation of Piracy, desert terrorism and terror of the weather.. all these activities precede the rising of that glorious metric the Estimated Average Global Temperature.(EAGT)
    The gold standard of the Team IPCC ™.
    Global Temperatures were actually falling using this amazing tool,EAGT, in the 1970s, then a slight up tick in desert terrorism, followed by piracy caused the EAGT to start to rise, then the Eco-terrorists started gaining publicity in the late 1980s and the rising of the EAGT started in earnest.

    And in the year 2014 the eco-terroism was so bad that the EAGT rose even as recorded temperature world wide fell.
    Thanks to the Karl Doctrine, terrorism has caused unprecedented Climate Change(AGW).
    Under Herr Karls astounding interpretation we have climate change in defiance of the data.

    Ain’t it amazing that bureaucrats believe they can control speech.
    The Greys have no shortage of conceit, shame their grey matter atrophied years ago.
    So “Snip 18″ is the progressive government term for the desert pedophiles followers?

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    Catamon

    Unless Catamon is one of a very select group of people, he will not have had access to the judges analysis.

    So as far as you are concerned, being able to google search a federal court judgement that’s in the public domain makes me one of a “select group”??

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/FCA/2011/1103.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=andrew%20bolt

    I can well understand why you are keeping these comments in moderation Fly, but that says more about you than me.

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    CobraKai4Ever

    Why don’t we give the terrorists electric cars? I guess they might not have garages with outlets to charge them… even though they were making billions from all that oil we didn’t stop them from selling to us and other nations on the black market. We could at least give nothing faster than a Prius. I know oil is so cheap over there for them especially for the Saudi princes who drive Lamborghinis while beheading people, giving them drugs and money, escape America after raping women whom they kidnapped, and all that fun stuff. But really? We could at least give them pamphlets about climate change with the guns and brand new Nikes.

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    [...] Don’t drive, you encourage terrorists ~ Since progressives absolutely refuse to believe that the Quran is the sole source of Islamic [...]

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    Climate change all the time. But the consequences are dependent on multiple factors.

    If you have a drought in an area due to galactic or human factors, the impact of this change is only felt to the extent that the local population has put stress upon the environment. If you are so many people that you already live on the edge of what the water sources are able to carry, then a drought will have catastrophic effects. But if you are living in fewer numbers you will be able to manage less water.

    When the Earth goes through the next Ice Age there will be much less water, but also much less land mass for the world population to live on. Climate change does not cause conflicts. Living on the edge, literally, causes conflicts.

    I would suggest the readers pull down data on population densities in the desert areas and compare that to the water inflow, water usage and water aquaifer levels. Then you will have a good indication where sh-t will hit the fan. Who is responsible?

    Those living there of course. Each population has a responsibility to orientate themselves with regards to local resources and make a ruff estimate of the limitations.

    What if the Californian population would have been 80 million in the last drought, would the Googlers and Applers have died in droves as the water shortage hit them full force? Or would they have asked Siri to order the Google car to drive them to safety after the Google acquisition of Uber (oups did I reveal a secret)?

    Climate changes like an atom. It gets excited and then shifts into the steady state, pulsing through time. Humans can live within the limits of these fluctuations or choose to forget the fluctuations and dream of eternal growth or space exploration. Choose to forget and reap the consequences. Refugees can go elsewhere until the place is overcrowded. The definition of overcrowdedness depends on the local climate.

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