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French Mathematical Calculation Society: Global Warming Crusade is absurd and pointless

The hard sciences are less and less fooled by the charade of sciencey fear mongering (unlike some psychologists). It is great to see scientific groups speaking out, though we know this PDF, which was first published on the 24th of August 2015, will be ignored by the ABC, BBC, and CBC science propaganda teams. Not the right message.

The Société de Calcul Mathématique SA, in France has issued a long in depth white paper on climate change:

“The battle against global warming: an absurd,costly and pointless crusade”

“The battle against global warming 195  page PDF

 The impact on the entire field of scientific research is particularly clear and especially pernicious.

There is not a single fact, figure or observation that leads us to conclude that the world‘s climate is in any way disturbed‘

“Conclusions based on any kind of model should be disregarded. As the SCM specializes in building mathematical models, we should also be recognized as competent to criticize them. Models are useful when attempting to review our knowledge, but they should not be used as an aid to decision-making until they have been validated.”


 The English Translation of the Calculation Mathematical Society, SA web page.   SCM was established in 1987, by University professor, Dr. Bernard Beauzamy. Their “first specialty” is mathematical modeling.

A few excerpts of this long paper below

Summary

All public policies, in France, Europe and throughout the world, find their origin and inspiration in the battle against global warming.

The impact on the entire field of scientific research is particularly clear and especially pernicious. No project can be launched, on any subject whatsoever, unless it makes direct reference to global warming. You want to look at the geology of the Garonne Basin? It is, after all, an entirely normal and socially useful subject in every respect. Well, your research will be funded, approved and published only if it mentions the potential for geological storage of CO2. It is appalling.

The crusade has invaded every area of activity and everyone‘s thinking: the battle against CO2 has become a national priority. How have we reached this point, in a country that claims to be rational?

At the root lie the declarations made by the IPPC, which have been repeated over the years and taken up by the European Commission and the Member States. France, which likes to see itself as the good boy of Europe‘, adds an extra layer of virtue to every crusade. When others introduce reductions, we will on principle introduce bigger reductions, without ever questioning their appropriateness: a crusade is virtuous by its very nature. And you can never be too virtuous.

But mathematicians do not believe in crusades; they look at facts, figures, observations and arguments.

Part 1: The facts

Chapter 1: The crusade is absurd
There is not a single fact, figure or observation that leads us to conclude that the world‘s climate is in any way disturbed‘. It is variable, as it has always been, but rather less so now than during certain periods or geological eras. Modern methods are far from being able to accurately measure the planet‘s global temperature even today, so measurements made 50 or 100 years ago are even less reliable.

Concentrations of CO2 vary, as they always have done; the figures that are being released are biased and dishonest. Rising sea levels are a normal phenomenon linked to upthrust buoyancy; they are nothing to do with so-called global warming. As for extreme weather events – they are no more frequent now than they have been in the past. We ourselves have processed the raw data on hurricanes.

Chapter 2: The crusade is costly

Direct aid for industries that are completely unviable (such as photovoltaics and wind turbines) but presented as ‗virtuous‘ runs into billions of euros, according to recent reports published by the Cour des Comptes (French Audit Office) in 2013. But the highest cost lies in the principle of ‗energy saving‘, which is presented as especially virtuous. Since no civilization can develop when it is saving energy, ours has stopped developing: France now has more than three million people unemployed – it is the price we have to pay for our virtue.

Chapter 3: The crusade is pointless

If we in France were to stop all industrial activity (let‘s not talk about our intellectual activity, which ceased long ago), if we were to eradicate all trace of animal life, the composition of the atmosphere would not alter in any measurable, perceptible way.

This just goes to show the truth of the matter: we are fighting for a cause (reducing CO2 emissions) that serves absolutely no purpose, in which we alone believe, and which we can do nothing about. You would probably have to go quite a long way back in human history to find such a mad obsession.

 

 

h/t Climate Depot, SEPP, Terrarious, Pat. Thank you.

Title edited to make it clear it is not the “French Mathematical Society”. Thanks to Mischa.

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284 comments to French Mathematical Calculation Society: Global Warming Crusade is absurd and pointless

  • #
    scaper...

    It’s a mad, mad, mad world we’re living in. Time to beam up.

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  • #
    Lawrie

    We have long suspected the results they have now shown to be true. Thank goodness some are speaking out which should encourage others to do the same. Avalanches begin one snowflake at a time but soon build to unstoppable proportions. I am 70 and pray that I should survive long enough to see the great scam obliterated and all it’s adherents likewise destroyed. Oh the duck-shoving then as politicians hold the scientists to account just before they themselves are voted out of office. The journalists who failed in their task of presenting the facts will of course blame everyone else and start the witch-hunts they should have begun two decades ago. The Jo Novas and other heroes will be quietly ignored as some self styled savior grabs the limelight and promotes himself to the people; for a profit of course. Call me a cynic but I’ve seen it all before.

    1272

  • #

    “You would probably have to go quite a long way back in human history to find such a mad obsession.”

    Couldn’t have been said better!!

    621

    • #

      Nah. Race denialism (for want of a better term) is another example. I mean, it’s not like you can’t see differences with your own eyes; or measure skulls; or look at the varying complexity of cerebral cortex folds; or notice endicronoligical differences such as those reported in medical journals (which impact behavior); or note that there are aggregate differences in neurotransmitter receptor sites; or notice differences in crime rates; or psychometric (intelligence) data; or the fact that some, but not all, races interbred with, say, Neanderthals to name one; or notice differences in societies; say, Portland vs. Detroit, Senegal vs. Luxembourg; or the age at which children walk; or gestation duration; or, you know, that the theory of evolution is true and applied to Homo sapiens also; nor that, just possibly, adaptation to different niches ranging from the arctic to the tropics might have occurred; and been beneficial to boot:

      Absolutely one of the best articles on intellectual honesty, academic freedom, and the bullying tribal groupthink taking over the tradition of free speech.

      Charles Murray is a great thinker and caring man who suffered a heavy price for pursuing his work openly and honestly. Jason Richwine has already paid a hefty price for his good scholarly work. In my own way, I’ve paid a heavy price by sometimes self-suppressing due to the heavy climate of intimidation in this culture for saying provably true, but unpopular, things and the negative emotions that result, at least in part, from that suppression of expressing the truth about the world as one sees it — with the best of intentions.

      I’m through with that.

      Society, with its bigotry and unreason, will probably deny me opportunities and it may well do much worse to me, but the truth is still the truth no matter how much I and anyone else wishes things to be otherwise. There are many things I would change about nature (illness, accidents, estrangement, suffering, and unwanted death come to mind), but nature did not consult my wishes during its formation, which long proceeded me.

      I love and have loved people of many different ancestral histories: I’m of mixed ancestry myself with some being native to North America and more coming from Europe, which should not matter, but apparently “race” is super important to some people.

      The fact is nature is an engine for diversity, not for sameness. Evolution via natural selection simply had no mechanism for keeping all human groups identical in every respect, except cosmetic, while being separated for tens of thousands of years, interbreeding with different ‘Homo sapiens’ subspecies (some of our ancestors interbred with Neanderthals: others didn’t; the Human Genome Project makes this clear), and being subjected to tremendously different natural environments ranging from the arctic to the tropics.

      With respect, nature simply doesn’t work that way.

      It not only doesn’t, *it can’t*. The common opinion on this is not even possible, much less likely.

      Nothing — absolutely nothing about what I’m saying — means we can’t still communicate with, love, befriend, work alongside, and cheer for our fellow humans of both genders, any permutations thereof, all ages, and all places of ancestry. We do not have to throw out the truth in order to have love and shared brotherhood, sisterhood, or romantic partnerships, as well as business and social relationships of all kinds.

      We are still a closely related species, despite whatever differences we may, on average, have. Similarly, two siblings or friends or partners are different, but that doesn’t preclude them from respect, connection, and honest communication.

      We should stop the bullying of people with the courage to say their opinion. This isn’t tolerance and it isn’t appreciating diversity. It most certainly is not intellectually honest.

      http://www.nationalreview.com/article/348323/defense-jason-richwine

      But no. Because the Nazis did bad things, and killed, oh, I don’t know, a fraction of the defenseless civilians that the Communists did, but the Communists were our allies, and had bought into this insane “Equality” idea from the French Revolution (where, hey, they also killed a lot of people!) through Marx and Lenin, well, naturally the knowledge of everyone from the dawn of time is now deemed wrong. Because if there’s one thing we have to indoctrinate people in, it’s Marxist principles that could not, ever, possibly be true.

      Because nature is magic, and if there’s one thing nature does, it produces complete sameness, and not constant change.

      **Rolls eyes**

      I believe in diversity. Why?

      Because it’s there. And it’s fine. Good, actually.

      434

      • #

        By the way:

        1. Absolutely important post. I understand if you delete my comment, although I hope you don’t, rather than distract from this post itself, which should be widely shared.

        2. My comment is a direct reply to the one above, and it is a valid rejoinder of the “au contraire” style.

        3. This blog, while it focuses mainly on climate science, is, in its very masthead and description, about skeptical science, dissident science, and not only climate science.

        4. It is very, very odd that the position that evolution, the core theory of biology, applied to humans also is “dissident” science. Utterly strange!

        5. Human evolution accelerated, not slowed down, in recent millennia.

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      • #
        David, UK

        @Christopher I totally agree. There are myriad empirical observations which indicate the various races did – of COURSE – continue to evolve away from each other in aspects other than simply the cosmetic. Different brain sizes between the races is just one; East Asians have the largest brains, and also happen to have, on average, the highest IQs, whether in their native or foreign lands. Coincidence? Since East Asians are also the highest earners in the West (another coincidence, I suppose), maybe we need to knock them down a peg or two, and make them feel guilty for their obvious Asian Privilege. [/sarc]
        The intelligence bell curves for the different races are also remarkably consistent for the respective races whether at home or abroad, suggesting that genes play a significantly bigger role in intelligence than environment.

        But we mustn’t talk about that.

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        • #
          David, UK

          Sorry, Christoph, for getting your name wrong in my comment.

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          • #

            No worries; however, still good of you to apologize for the oversight about my name. Gee, it’s almost like you can be a considerate and compassionate human being, and at the same time understand that we’re all different, including in terms of groups, to some extent.

            Red and grey squirrels are somewhat different. Therefore, we must hate one and love the other.

            What an asinine concept! It’s asinine when applied to people, too.

            10

    • #
      Peter Carabot

      have to go back only 2015 years ago, “Salvation for All Believers, damnation and eternal fire for all others”….

      20

  • #
    Phillip Bratby

    But the SCM will be ignored by the media and politicians – they are all on the gravy train. The “science” was settled many years ago and free speech and debate are dead. End of.

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    • #
      Bulldust

      Sounds like these chaps are channeling the likes of George EP Box:

      https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_E._P._Box

      He is known for saying “Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful.”

      Methinks the IPCC modellers fall in the second of the categories in the following Box quote:

      Since all models are wrong the scientist cannot obtain a “correct” one by excessive elaboration. On the contrary following William of Occam he should seek an economical description of natural phenomena. Just as the ability to devise simple but evocative models is the signature of the great scientist so overelaboration and overparameterization is often the mark of mediocrity.

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  • #

    …Models are useful when attempting to review our knowledge, but they should not be used as an aid to decision-making until they have been validated.”

    Correct me if I am wrong but i thought the models are not used this way, most have been thoroughly invalidated first.

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  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    France is interesting. Of course, its electricity supply is dominantly nuclear, but the present crop of pollies there want to wind it back. Perhaps I should say “cut” it back, for a French speaker might not know all meanings of “wind”.
    So I watch expectantly each time France/energy makes the news, waiting for a revival of the older spirit that led to so many nuclear generators. This spirit is hovering nervously around neutral just now and could tip any way.
    Needless to say, it would be stupid to reverse the nuclear interest after such a good, demonstrated start/ Ever hear of anyone in the French nuclear industry being killed or injured? No? Neither have I, yet unwashed multitudes scream that it is unsafe. Which shows the power of advertising, even when it is 100% wrong.
    I like the French people I have met. I’ve travelled extensively through the lovely countryside in excellent weather. My dear wife says, of all the places she has been, Paris is the one to which she would most like to return. (Galeries Lafayette, show us more red shoes please!)
    So, let us sit by and watch pollies stuff up a good working plan, just because once elected they feel that they have to do something, to justify their election into high office.
    Geoff

    572

    • #
      Stephen Richards

      Geoff

      The socialists were forced by there need for power to make a pact with the devil (the greens) over nuclear. They needed the greens to get into power. They have made such a bordelle of the job that even the greens won’t be able to help them in 2017. One political analyst is currently forecasting a Marine Le Pen victoire. However, there is at least one new nuclear power station under construction and protests are mounting against wind turbines but it is fair to say that in general the french are strong environmentalists and many of my friends hate nuclear with a passion. Even the pragmatic french can be sometimes very stupid.

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    • #
      Robert O

      The French owe a lot to Charles de Gaulle who pursued an independent policy on energy helped to some extent by the Arab oil embargoes. If there is little petroleum available they always have the SNCF to fall back on for transport. One of the outcomes of this policy is they can sell power to their green neighbours rather than slowing down the reactors, and they don’t have to use their hydro unless they really need it. It’s all 24/7/365 electricity unlike Spain and Denmark, and probably a future Australia if we don’t wake-up soon.

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    • #
      RB

      There have been some incidents (a quick google led me to Greenpeace so I had to stop). I remember a story of one station that was thought to be too close to a town, which turned out to be fortunate. They ducked into town to buy some generators and avoided a catastrophe.

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      • #
        Leo Morgan

        Looking at the Wikipedia list of French Nuclear accidents, I don’t see one that meets that description. Are you sure it was real? Remember, Greens tell lies.

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        • #
          RB

          It might have been the La Hague reprocessing plant in 1980.

          Fire destroys a transformer feeding electricity to La Hague reprocessing plant in France. The entire facility goes dark, but the critical loss is the pumps which must run constantly to cool the high-level wastes in storage tanks on-site. The liquid in the tanks begins to boil in three hours. All areas of the plant are contaminated. It takes several months to repair the electrical distribution system.

          30

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          There have been more deaths in France from people playing Bocce than from the nuclear industry.

          90

          • #
            Dean

            Lol, I remember my travels in Lyon, where a bocce tournament was bring held in the main square. 30 courts, 2 metres of playing surface, 2 metres of crowd all straining to see steel balls being hurled 20 odd metres in the air. What could go wrong.

            20

    • #
      Mike

      “Ever hear of anyone in the French nuclear industry being killed or injured? No? Neither have I”

      ….The problem, as i see it, with nuke power plants is nearly all nuke power sites do not dispose of nuclear waste. It is aggregated/stored/accumulated in ‘spent fuel’ tanks/pools. When the spent fuel goes up in smoke, like at Fukushima, it does not take much heat (relatively) to boil off Cesium 137 and Cesium 134. From memory it boils and becomes a gas somewhere around 700 degrees Celsius. This explains the absence of plutonium in the fallout which boils somewhere around 3000 degrees Celsius, from memory again.

      In the event of war, or unforeseen circumstances, it only takes a mindbogglingly small malfunction of the water circulation pumps that keep the spent fuel pool cool, or damage to the pool tank, or the event of spent fuel pool drying out to create conditions similar to Fukushima, and poof!!!!, fractional distillation of spent fuel rods takes place resulting in clouds of radioactive cesium gas, and other nuke goodies.

      The cost for the disposal of spent fuel is not factored in, and that is why nuclear power plants store spent fuel on site so that it magically appears competitive. I could go on about other cost cutting measures in my limited capacity which includes having an enthusiast/hobbyist interest in gamma spectrometry with help mainly from a website called Gamma Spectacular.

      Processing Uranium into enriched uranium is an extremely toxic process. why not store and refine uranium in France itself instead of somewhere or other else?

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      • #
        Mike

        Oops, Typo.. ” why not store and refine uranium in France itself instead of somewhere or other else?”
        Should be
        ‘why not refine uranium in France itself instead of somewhere or other else?’

        52

        • #
          James Murphy

          They do an awful lot of nuclear fuel reprocessing in France already. one of the biggest, if not the biggest reprocessing plants in the world is on the Normandy coast.

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          • #
            Mike

            Ok………excellent James. You are talking about “reprocessing”, And i was talking about “processing” the raw material. That’s another process i forgot about (Duh. :) ) we can imagine abutting the nuclear power plant building tailings dam etc.

            Instead of the fairytale nuke electricity plant sitting there by itself, lets imagine the entire nuclear process, reprocessing, manufacture of chemicals used for processing and reprocessing being conducted on the one site.

            Imagine the tailings dam, centrifuges, and the chemical plant to manufacture fluorine used in the nuke fuel cycle and everything all on the one nuclear power station site shall we.

            All of a sudden the fairy tale ‘Carbon Green’ nuclear power plant is a mind bogglingly toxic and very large site. Even the creation of the chemicals like flourine is all done on the one nuclear power site. Lets call it a ‘French all in one nuke power complex’. All of a sudden, the French have to tear down the Eiffel Tower to make room for all the “all in one nuclear power” plants.

            From Wikipedia:
            “At least 17,000 metric tons of fluorine are produced each year. It costs only $5–8 per kilogram as uranium or sulfur hexafluoride, but handling challenges multiply its price as an element, and most processes that use the latter in large amounts employ in situ generation under vertical integration.[180]

            The largest application of fluorine gas, consuming up to 7,000 metric tons annually, is in the preparation of UF
            6 for the nuclear fuel cycle. Fluorine is used to fluorinate uranium tetrafluoride, itself formed from uranium dioxide and hydrofluoric acid.[180]

            23

            • #
              Mike

              There is nothing i can do about the French being brainwashed into thinking nuclear power is even remotely clean. If they can believe that, anything is possible, even uranium tetrafluoride champagne, in that country/geographic location.

              14

              • #
                John Robertson

                Are you talking to yourself?
                same line could be applied to the belief in the Magic Gas hypothesis of Global warming.
                If people can believe that, anything is possible, they will buy anything.

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              • #
                Mike

                Thanks John. Yes i was muttering to myself in that last comment. Suggestibility is pretty universal in our species.

                31

            • #
              cohenite

              mike, google IFR, or go to professor Brook’s site.

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              • #
                Mike

                Thanks cohenite. The site says nothing about the dirty smelly toxic chemicals used to manufacture the fuel. The search for a perpetual motion device has been around for a while.

                21

              • #
                Mike

                Bit like the craze for Thorium reactors. The enthusiasts forget to market the chemicals required to extract thorium into the equation. For example, extracting rare earth elements for mineral sands is something we here in Au do not do. We export the mineral sands to Malaysia so they can carry out the toxic process out of sight out of mind. Australia can maintain its clean, relatively pollution free prestige. Just ship the processing somewhere else.

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            • #

              Mike, shame on you!

              Instead of the fairytale nuke electricity plant sitting there by itself, lets imagine the entire nuclear process, reprocessing, manufacture of chemicals used for processing and reprocessing being conducted on the one site…..blah blah blah!

              It looks patently obvious you have never actually checked into wind and solar power ….. the whole processes involved with that.

              Imagine the whole processes involved in manufacturing the componentry which make up wind turbines and solar panels, and be aware that they are just as toxic as what you mentioned with your one sided scare campaign.

              It’s amazing how green hued glasses just totally block out what they don’t want to see.

              I find it amazing that those of you who support renewable power are just so totally and utterly blind to facts.

              Tony.

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              • #
                Mike

                Thanks for noticing my comment Tony. I suspect i cover wind turbines in my previous comment where i point out…..

                “For example, extracting rare earth elements for mineral sands is something we here in Au do not do. We export the mineral sands to Malaysia so they can carry out the toxic process out of sight out of mind.”

                My chair is to represent ‘efficiency’. I am fully aware that rare earth elements are used to manufacture rare earth magnets a key component of wind generators.

                I did not mention them directly because i did not want to appear too long winded. Excuse the pun. :)

                Perpetual motion machines, or free energy is not something i find fascinating/subscribe to due to my conviction that nothing can be obtained for nothing, unless of course one is speaking of the power to print money, or ‘quantitative easing’/fractional reserve banking/. This is the only exception i know of on this planet, and it is indeed the greatest power on the planet at this time..

                21

              • #
                clive

                Tony,why do we need nuk powerplants when we have a huge amount of coal?

                00

              • #

                clive,

                don’t get me wrong here. I’m not advocating nuclear power plants, because even I don’t believe we will have them for at least 20 years plus, if ever, but if, if, if, we are forced away from coal fired plants, then Nuclear is a far better option than wind or solar, but trust me here, Nuclear power plants are a very long way off here in Australia. I’m only 64, and I hope to have a long life, and even I don’t think I will live to see a nuclear power plant here in Australia.

                My gut feeling is that all this renewable dream will sour once people learn the truth about them, and realise that they cannot do what is claimed, and that large scale plants actually capable of delivering power on a 24/7/365 basis will be needed. When that time comes, the choice will be new tech coal fired plants or nuclear plants, and the former will win out every time when that is the choice.

                No matter what comes out of Paris, the UN is UTTERLY powerless to stop construction of what is literally thousands of new tech coal fired plants being constructed, mainly in Developing Countries.

                Once Countries in the already Developed World see those Countries totally ignoring what the UN calls for, the truth about these new tech coal fired plants will gradually filter through. Those new tech coal fired plants offer reductions in CO2 emissions of up to 35% and more over existing coal fired plants which are basically technology that is 50 years old and more. That truth will also come out and when our old coal fired plants are looking to be replaced, then those new tech coal fired plants will be constructed.

                I even think that Nuclear power plants will feel the pinch from these new coal fired plants, so Nuclear power will become even less of an option.

                Tony.

                30

            • #
              Geoff Sherrington

              Mike, with respect, you were not to know that nuclear matters were a significant part of my science career. The physics, chemistry, safety etc of nuclear power generation has not had altered fundamentals over the last 50 years of my familiarity.
              The main change has been an artificial cost increase that is squarely that blame of ani nuclear minority dissidents.
              No informed coalface professional I have met admits other than there are many alternatives for the safe disposal of nuclear waste. In money terms in USA there has been an annual large levy for many years to fund waste management at Yucca Mt now sidelined for political expedience and some marginal votes. Billions of $$$.
              As for fluorine, look up the figures for consumption in the making of aluminium metal from bauxite. It dwarfs those for Uranium hex.
              Please do not swallow uncritically the blessings of the dissident sheeple who pop up their heads for sound bites at the mention of nuclear.
              It is actually a fascinating technology that now needs anew crop of graduates to take over after the lamentable pause in building new reactors (except for China).

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              • #

                No informed coalface professional I have met admits other than there are many alternatives for the safe disposal of nuclear waste. In money terms in USA there has been an annual large levy for many years to fund waste management at Yucca Mt now sidelined for political expedience and some marginal votes. Billions of $$$.

                Hmm, that wouldn’t be Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) now would it!

                What he did to Yucca Mountain was nothing but outright political expedience.

                Tony.

                90

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Two factors were at the root cause of the Fukushima disaster:

        1. The original plan was to ship the spent fuel rods out to sea, and dispose of them in very deep water at the northern end of the Marianas Trench. The holding pools were for temporary storage only. The Japanese environmental movements managed to get a government embargo on the transshipment of the spent rods by road, which scuppered that plan. The result was a large accumulation of radioactive material.

        2. The holding pools required a supply of sea water, to cool the spent fuel rods, and keep them cool. This was managed by electric pumps, using electricity generated by the station itself, with backup provided by auxilliary diesel generators. These pumps were located outside the main building, close to the water intake. The pumps also provided cooling water for the main reactors.

        When the earthquake struck, the reactors shut down, as designed, by the automated insertion of the control rods, and the auxilliary generators cut in, to maintain power to the coolant pumps. So far so good.

        Then the tidal wave hit, swamping the electric pumps, and the auxilliary generators, that powered them. The wave also swamped all of the power network substations, making the restoration of energy supply impossible.

        Without water circulation, the heat from the spent rods eventually boiled the water in the storage pools, and at that point atmospheric radiation was released.

        The Fukushima disaster is constantly held up by the environmental movement as an example of the evils of nuclear power. But we should note, that the magnitude of the “disaster” was, to some considerable degree, the result of environmental lobbying. Had the station been allowed to work as designed, the down-stream effects would probably have been significantly less.

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        • #
          Robert O

          It’s good to see a reasoned analysis of what went wrong at Fukushima, all one ever saw was the disaster of nuclear power stations and not much about the tidal wave. With the benefit of hindsight the stations should not have been built too close to the coast, but the images of the tidal wave overpowering all before it were extraordinary.

          At least there is some talk starting about nuclear power here. We export about 750,000 GWh of uranium annually which is three times our total electricity production of 250,000 GWh/ yr. And we already have an area for waste at Maralinga; just needs some lateral thinking, but why go to the bother and cost as we have heaps of coal and there is little evidence that CO2 is causing non existent global warming and lots that is needed for photosynthesis upon which we all depend.

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        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Thanks for that perspective RW

          50

  • #
    Kevin Lohse

    The Warmists must be beginning to panic about constantly playing whack-a-mole with new research unsettling the science.

    493

    • #
      Rick Bradford

      I doubt it. Their mindset is constructed to eliminate the possibility of error, thus:

      1) The science is 100% settled
      2) Therefore, any scientific paper which disagrees must be false
      3) So we don’t need to accept it as proper science
      4) So, the science is still 100% settled.

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      • #
        Trevor Riches

        I’m sorry Rick, but “the Science is 100% settled” is not a claim I’ve ever seen made on behalf of any group of scientists, let alone those associated with AGW.

        10

    • #
      William

      They are over at Fairfax drooling over the letter signed by David Pocock and 60 other climate science luminaries calling for an end to coal mines. They see it as the final document needed to move to wind and solar power and away from coal. I have mentioned the paper by the French Society of Mathematicians but had no response – normally, as Rick points out 1,2,3 and 4 are rolled out along with 5 (the appeal to authority), and 6 (big oil falsified science), but so far, nothing. Oh, and 7 (people who convert from alarmism to scepticism are suddenly wrong about everything).

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  • #
    Climate Heretic

    However it has been said all before:

    “No human investigation can be called real science if it cannot be demonstrated mathematically.” Leonardo Da Vinci

    “What we know is not much. What we do not know is immense.” P.S. Laplace

    “ … partial differential equations are the basis of all physical theorems. In the theory of sound in gases, liquid and solids, in the investigations of elasticity, in optics, everywhere partial differential equations formulate basic laws of nature which can be checked against experiments.”
    Bernhard Riemann

    “The more I know, the less I know.” Climate Heretic

    Regards
    Climate Heretic

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    • #

      Climate Heretic

      I shared a post graduate student office with a bloke who’s thesis project involved computer simulation.

      One day he came back with yet more printouts, perused them and observed that

      “Real Knowledge does not increase at the same rate as computer output”.

      It did play a useful part in real life at that stage – his stack of printouts helped give the illusion that only two students could fit into an office designated for three.

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    gary turner

    “Global Warming Crusade is aburd … ”

    Don’t you mean absurd?

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    Graeme No.3

    The 6 stages of a project

    Initiation
    Enthusiasm
    Setbacks / problems
    Panic
    Investigation
    Rewards for the guilty and punishment of the innocent.

    I think we might be about stage 4 now, hence the desperation about Paris. But I see that the guilty have been collecting the rewards for years.

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  • #
    Popeye26

    To quote:

    “There is not a single fact, figure or observation that leads us to conclude that the world‘s climate is in any way disturbed”

    &

    “As the SCM specializes in building mathematical models, we should also be recognized as competent to criticize them.”

    Wow no – let’s make it WOW

    I believe that will really upset the greenie IPCC reviewers – they won’t have a comeback because BS in this case DOESN’T baffle brains.

    But as Jo says – ABC, BBC and the rest of the “true believing” MSM won’t touch this revelation with a barge pole

    Cheers,

    513

  • #
    AndyG55

    As a mathematician, scientist and engineer…

    I can only concur with every point made in their summary. :-)

    575

  • #
    pat

    ***could Reuters be more CAGW-compromised?

    26 Oct: ReutersCarbonPulse: Poland elects eurosceptic party opposing EU emission laws
    Poland’s eurosceptic Law & Justice (PiS) party claimed a decisive victory in the country’s parliamentary elections on Sunday, bringing to power a government with senior figures that have said they would push for an opt-out of EU climate policies.
    Such an opt-out would mean companies in Europe’s third biggest emitter would no longer be regulated in the EU ETS, though analysts have dismissed such a drastic move as renegoting the terms of Poland’s EU membership as political posturing.
    Piotr Naimski, a senior MP from the party said in August that “Poland quitting the ETS “is not impossible”, adding that a failure of a UN climate deal in Paris this December would be in Poland’s interests.
    Earlier this month PiS leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski said the country should have many more power plants to keep pace with rising demand for electricity if Poland’s economy develops quickly.
    “We have to fight for this in the European Union. As to the climate package renegotiation is needed. We should not have agreed to that, it could have been vetoed,” Kaczynski said at a televised briefing in the town of Konin, home to a lignite coal-fuelled power station.
    ***Read a Carbon Pulse briefing on why a combination of changes to EU lawmaking procedures and a new hardline Polish government come to a head raise the prospect of Poland’s EU opt-out.
    ***This could in turn trigger more ambitious climate policies among the remaining 27 nations no longer restrained by a government that has consistently sought to weaken climate action.
    http://carbon-pulse.com/poland-elects-eurosceptic-party-opposing-eu-emission-laws/

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  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Just another nail in the ‘truth’ coffin. When this one is finally buried there will a lot of howling, wailing and much recrimination. I live in hope.
    Geoff W Sydney.

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    • #
      CalUKGR

      Hope is all we’ve got (besides truth and facts) when the forces ranged against us are so determinedly immense and seemingly unstoppable. How can real ‘debate’ ever exist in an atmosphere of such abject censorship? When CAGW zealots talk about a ‘climate debate’ they must know they are lying to themselves as much as they are lying to everyone else. There is no ‘climate debate’ – absolutely everyone knows it. The MSM here in the UK just don’t go near the subject for fear of actually having to give air time to a climate sceptic who might actually let the cat out of the bag. The BBC has banned all climate sceptic from its channels. They simply don’t get a look-in – except perhaps to be sneered at or name-called.

      The Paris Climate Jamboree looms ever nearer. The BBC will go into overdrive, as will most other msm outlets. Pro-CAGW propaganda like never before. I can hardly stand it. How can anyone?

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  • #
    Egor TheOne

    I will let Monckton , brilliant as always , do the talking and get to the real elephant in the room >>

    Our Last Year of Freedom? – Christopher Monckton’s Warning
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n32xl9fy0Wo

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    • #
      Egor TheOne

      Left the S out of ‘absurd’ , Jo .

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      My apologies if people have heard this theory before, however the theory seems to be moving closer to fact…..

      CAGW is the surface skrmish – the real target is our western civilisation. I dont expect people who may not be religious nor have a faith view of the world to accept this, but here goes:

      The reality as it seems to be forming, is a proper religious war.

      It is a battle between powerful pagan occultists who have immense global power and are determined to trash our Christian/Judeo western civilisation and who want to bring about a quite frankly hideous pagan occult New World Order.

      The only way they can do this is trhough a “war” of sorts – CAGW is the skirmish, the real target is destruction of our Western way of life.

      One of the benefits of war to the Elite, is things that cant be established through normal means, can be justified in times of war – removal of Liberty & freedom, implemtation of draconian laws, restriction of freedoms, silencing of free speech, oppresive surveillance, punative punishments under guise of “emergency powers”, human experimentation, mass brainwashing & crowd control.

      The mechanism for this is suspending of common sense and liberty of scientific freedoms – “the science is settled” isnt a declaration, its a literal Coup d’Etat ( in keeping with the french theme here….).

      You cant pull of a coup without everyone working together – the Godless Israel hating UN is the rump of pagan occult-driven global govt, Godless communism / Socialism are the storm troops. Is this why we see rising global socialism?

      I’d be very happy to be proven wrong.

      90

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        History shows that civilisations come, and civilisations go, and some are better than others, and some last for centuries, and some only for decades.

        But all civilisations have an intrinsic flaw: It has to have rules, that defines what the civilisation is, and how it works. Once you have rules, the smarter members of society start to find ways around the rules, or ways of using the rules to their own advantage, and thus the civilisation develops a cancer, which results it its demise, to be replaced by another civilisation.

        A lowering of the general standard of education in the last three decades or so, is the cancer we currently face. It may well kill our current civilisation, or it may go into remission, time will tell.

        The good news in all this, is that the civilisation that follows will be formed by, and as well suited to, the people of the time, as our civilisation was formed and suited to you and I.

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  • #
    pat

    26 Oct: Guardian: Daniel Hurst: Nuclear power advocate Alan Finkel to be named Australia’s chief scientist
    It is not yet clear whether Malcolm Turnbull’s choice signals a new openness by the government to consider nuclear power generation.
    Finkel has previously called for debate about nuclear electricity, saying Australia would be able to manage such a system “at very high safety levels”. He has couched his arguments in terms of the potential of nuclear power to curb global emissions of carbon dioxide…
    Turnbull praised Chubb for a “distinguished term of leadership”…
    “Even when science has been under attack, you have never flinched and you have always stood up for science and its central importance in Australia, both today and in our future,” Turnbull told Chubb at the prizes for science dinner in Canberra last week…
    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/oct/26/nuclear-power-advocate-alan-finkel-to-be-named-australias-chief-scientist

    26 Oct: Australian: Rob Harris: Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to appoint nuclear power advocate Dr Alan Finkel as chief scientist
    THE Prime Minister has signalled he is open to reviving a nuclear power debate in Australia by appointing one of the industry’s biggest advocates as his top scientific adviser…
    Dr Finkel, the outgoing chancellor of Monash University, has argued nuclear power is needed for Australia to achieve an “abundant, reliable supply of low-emissions ­electricity”…
    Mr Turnbull, as environment minister in the Howard government, said in order to deal with climate change, a “nuclear option” must be on the table while Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said last year nuclear was an “obvious direction” for Australia as it considered how to cut carbon dioxide emissions after 2020…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/prime-minister-malcolm-turnbull-to-appoint-nuclear-power-advocate-dr-alan-finkel-as-chief-scientist/story-e6frg6n6-1227581950975

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    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Something very subtle may be going on here; if Turnbull is advocating nuclear power he has got there by default. ie this would potentially solve the CO2 issue. (Then people like us would be out of business!) But nor do the greens buy into nuclear. So whats in it for Turnbull? We should encourage Malcolm to persue his ideas and watch the fun. Or am l being too simplistic?
      Geoff W Sydney

      60

      • #
        llew jones

        Noticed Turnbull, on TV today, making a bit of sense on coal fired power viz “if we don’t supply coal to China it will use “dirtier coal” and effect the environment more”.

        Perhaps there is just the chance that Turnbull may catch up with the failure of climate “science” to understand the real world observation that CO2 seems to be a very insignificant player in “climate change”, once known as global warming (the “science” informs us that global warming is a necessary prerequisite for anthropogenic climate change).
        However equally important Turnbull may discover that an Earth that is heading toward a population of 9 billion in the next few decades will desperately need any extra CO2 we humans can add to the atmosphere to produce enough food to feed that size of population.

        So Turnbull forget about nuclear and wind and solar if that end is to be achieved.

        60

        • #
          AndyG55

          If CO2 emissions were at all relevant, the best way to reduce Australia’s CO2 emissions would be to upgrade all our coal fired power stations to the latest technology.. and we could beef up capacity at the same time.

          No need to destroy the environment with wind turdines etc.

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        • #
          Oksanna

          You are forgetting that Malcolm’s constituency, broadly speaking, includes the banksters, the offsets crowd, the energy companies. For example, GE’s energy division sells wind, solar… and nuclear technologies. They sell special GE fail-safe reactors. The nuclear industry grasps at AGW like a drowning man clutching at straws. More likely, Malcolm will push for offsets, ‘renewables’ and also nuclear. Just like Obama, who backs the same policy admixture. Populist moderates all.

          50

  • #
    pat

    by the time Fairfax writes the story, Finkel is a solar/electric car kind of guy &, judging from his pic in this one, very much in the Malcolm style!

    26 Oct: SMH: Meet Alan Finkel, the man tipped to become Australia’s next Chief Scientist
    by Jane Lee & Peter Hannam
    The man reportedly tipped to become Australia’s next Chief Scientist lives in a house entirely powered by renewable energy and believes that everyone will eventually drive an electric car like him…
    In stark contrast to the climate-denialist image that plagued the Abbott government, Dr Finkel, the outgoing chancellor of Monash University, has publicly advocated for nuclear power and electric cars to help reduce Australia’s carbon emissions in the fight against global warming.
    In an essay this year in Cosmos, a magazine he co-founded, Dr Finkel revealed that the electricity in his home was “100 per cent green”, from either wind farm or solar energy sources.
    Electric cars were the “transport technology of the future”, the engineer and entrepreneur wrote in the science magazine.
    “One day, everyone’s driving could be close to emissions-free, like mine is. The more of us who buy electric cars and power them with green electricity the faster that day will come.”…
    As Chief Scientist, Dr Finkel could also be expected to speak out more on climate change, Mr McKeon, a former CSIRO chairman, said.
    “We’re in a different era now. We’re not as intimidated by what I’m going to call unfortunate comments about science by non-scientists.”
    Dr Finkel has also argued that nuclear power should be considered an alternative energy source, with solar and wind failing to meet the growth in global demand for electricity if fossil fuels had to be avoided. “Nuclear electricity should be considered as a zero-emissions contributor to the energy mix,” he has said…
    ***Mr McKeon said that one notable failure among Dr Finkel’s CV of successes, his time as chief technology officer at Better Place, would one day be viewed more favourably.
    “Better Place will just be shown as a company that was ahead of its time,” he said. “Science is all about risk.”
    Better Place aimed to supply battery-switching services to what was expected to be a mass roll-out of electric vehicles. It filed for bankruptcy in Israel in 2013 after burning through $US850 million (then worth about $885 million) in private funds…
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/meet-alan-finkel-the-man-tipped-to-become-australias-next-chief-scientist-20151026-gkijp4.html

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    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Passing the baton.

      Clark > Finkel.

      Out of the frying pan ……

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      • #

        And on to elsewhere/when if you had one of those new Delta 4 (heavy). Noah is really jealous! Course by learning he would strap critters to the outside now! Up to armpits in critter shait, once is enough. BTW no more command from the Lord any more. I what detailed specifications on the next Ark!!

        40

      • #

        How long is a cubit in Angstroms?
        What is the volume of a cubic cubit, in cubic Angstroms?
        What is the volume of a cute female Effalump, strapped to the outside? How fas we gon in furlongs/fortnight?

        40

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      “His house is 100% green from either solar panels or wind energy”. – crap, he is still connected to the grid, how does he know where his power comes from. What a load of absolute tosh, and he us going to be our next Chief Scientist – God help us!

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The general rule is – the more awards and “Establishment” accolades/connections someone has, the less likely they are to be anything but warmists and will toe the “Company line” accordingly….

        40

    • #

      There is Finkle, with many degrees, but with no understanding, no clue! A perfect CCC ! Let us all rejoice in harmony (whatever that may mean.) ;-)

      60

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      quote:”and believes that everyone will eventually drive an electric car like him…”
      Clearly Mr. Fingle hasn’t met a V8 car enthusiast or ever owned one. People like this simply project their own values onto everybody else yet wonder why everybody doesn’t do and think like they. Shallow thinkers.

      40

      • #
        AndyG55

        “quote:”and believes that everyone will eventually drive an electric car like him…””

        And every one of them will rely on COAL or GAS to provide that electricity WHEN NEEDED.

        52

      • #
        Geoff Sherrington

        Greg,
        Yep. Instead of helping to blow a billion in battery switches, maybe he should have marketed car audio systems that reproduce the wonderful sound of the well-tuned Aussie V8.
        Geoff.

        50

  • #
    pat

    more on the “Better Place” where Finkel was chief technology officer:

    April 2014: Bolt Blog: The car crash of another green dream
    Electric cars were going to save the world, not least from global warming. But as almost always, green schemes mean red ink:
    “Better Place was born to be revolutionary…
    “Agassi got virtually every meeting he ever asked for–with world leaders, celebrities, and CEOs of some of the world’s largest companies. The press anointed him the creator of a Next Big Thing. (Fast Company included Agassi on its 2009 Most Creative People in Business list.) Money from investors came fast and in big waves, roughly $900 million, and it seemed like it would never stop flowing. Until, suddenly, it did…
    “Better Place declared bankruptcy. The company and its affiliates in Australia and Denmark had raised almost $1 billion. They had only put around 1,400 or so electric cars on the road by the time the court-ordered liquidation started that spring.
    “This disaster broke over the heads of a couple of Australians. From 2010″…READ ON
    COMMENT: by Major Elvis Newton: Let’s not forget who was the CEO of Better Place Australia: former Labor MP Evan Thornley. (Who now sits inside an alleged “bipartisan” thinktank, Per Capita along with departing AFL CEO and Labor supporter Andrew Demetriou and former Gillard ‘economist’ Stephen “The Kouk” Koukoulas).
    Clover Moore signed Sydney up; so too did Melbourne’s mayor Rob Doyle.
    The ACT government bent over backwards to try and facilitate the success of this rentseeking organisation.
    And it all fell in a screaming heap along with the investment cash of dozens of high profile Australians including the husband of former NSW Premier Kristina Keneally…
    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/the_car_crash_of_another_green_dream/

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    john karajas

    Oh, for heavens sake! Are the French Society of Mathematicians contradicting those fine authorities of climate science such Naomi Klein, Vivienne Westwood, Tim (all the dams will go dry) Flannery and the Pope? Who do they think they are: mathematicians commenting on mathematical models? The insolence!

    522

  • #
    Bob Malloy

    O/T: Albo’s had a look over there it’s Britney Spears moment.

    Labor frontbencher Anthony Albanese has accused Malcolm Turnbull of playing “wedge” politics over industrial relations reform and declared climate change, not union corruption, should be top of a new bipartisan agenda.

    It comes after Bill Shorten yesterday hit back at the Prime Minister’s ultimatum that Labor pass laws to curb union ­corruption and power or face an election campaign waged on industrial relations, lashing out at Mr Turnbull for reheating “Tony Abbott’s union-bashing’’ exercise.

    Who’s wedging who?

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “Labor frontbencher Anthony Albanese has accused Malcolm Turnbull of playing “wedge” politics”

      Turnbull is forcing Labor back to the centre by taking a position only just right of the loonie left Greens.

      There is no room for THREE far-left wing parties.

      To survive in the Turnbull era, Labor must become a more CONSERVATIVE party.

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      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        While I think Labor has done us good in the past, I just can’t believe any of the current crop have so much as a single moral cell in their bodies. Liars and cheats the lots of them, a pox on them all.

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  • #

    Typo in blog post title – “aburd”.

    It’s a very interesting document, full of detail. I hadn’t heard of these people before.

    71

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    pat

    the wife of the alleged new Chief Scientist:

    Wikipedia: Elizabeth Finkel
    Elizabeth Finkel is an Australian science journalist best known for her books Stem Cells: Controversy at the Frontiers of Science and The Genome Generation. She is a contributing editor of Cosmos Magazine and previously worked as a broadcaster for ABC Radio National…

    June 2014: Penn State Uni Dept of Meteorology: Battle stations for an ice-free Arctic
    The summer seas around the North Pole could be ice-free in 15 years. Rear Admiral David Titley was given the task of working out what that meant for the US Navy. He talks with ***Elizabeth Finkel.
    Article courtesy of COSMOS
    In the unfolding Greek tragedy that is climate change, we’ve grown used to the voices of particular actors. There are the Cassandra scientists, the ***smug deniers and the vacillating politicians. One voice that’s not typically part of the cast is the United States Navy. But this February it spoke out loud and clear with the release of its “Arctic Roadmap”.
    The Earth’s climate is changing and nowhere more so than around the North Pole. In about 16 years, what was once a year-round expanse of white ice and snow will become an ice-free expanse of blue ocean each summer. And that doesn’t just affect polar bears. Climate change ***deniers may bury their heads in the sand or find succour in statistical noise, but the US Navy is getting ready to deal with the first new ocean that strategists have had to deal with since Magellan sailed into the Pacific…
    LINK To read the full article…
    http://www.met.psu.edu/news-events/news/2014-news/battle-stations-for-an-ice-free-arctic

    quite a few laughs in the FULL TITLEY, plus masses of PSU alarmist stuff down the left column of the above link.

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  • #

    “if we were to eradicate all trace of animal life, the composition of the atmosphere would not alter in any measurable, perceptible way.”

    I disagree Most all STINK would stop. When was the last time you witnessed a corn stalk fart! ;-)

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  • #
    PeterS

    Guilty as charged. So when are we going to see all the scientists still peddling the global warming religion lose their funding and jobs? Oh, sorry I was just dreaming that they were finally caught out and the institutions and governments were about to take appropriate action. Silly me. Nothing has changed – the AGW scam continues to grow.

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  • #
    LightningCamel

    The warming continues unabated
    According to the records updated
    The numbers they say
    It’s not really that way
    And the models remain unvalidated.

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  • #

    It’s because of the growing voice of the sane & sensible within academia, that I urge people to start referring to the eco-fascists who are opposed to both sceptics and this growing voice of academics as “Climate extremists”.

    Because they are “extremists” seeing everything in the climate as “extreme” and condemning in vitriol any who question their beliefs.

    The argument for “Climate extremism”

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I’d go so far as to consider calling the CAGW cheer squad “Collaborators”….

      And yes, history never forgets….

      72

  • #

    [...] French Society of Mathematicians: Global Warming Crusade is absurd and pointless [...]

    02

  • #
    King Geo

    “French Society of Mathematicians: Global Warming Crusade is absurd and pointless”

    A good Canadian friend of mine is an eminent mathematician who is retired but holds emeritus positions not only here in Perth but also in Toronto & London. I asked him recently what he thought of the Theory of AGW? His answer – “its total nonsense”. Being from Toronto he no doubt has some French speaking friends/colleagues given the proximity to Quebec – I wonder if there is a French Society of Mathematicians in Quebec who also dispel the “Theory of AGW” using simple mathematical logic?

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    Vlad the Impaler

    You can’t possibly expect us to listen to this group of ne’er-do-wells, do you? They’re not real climate scientists! They’re not published in the recognized climate-science literature. What could these morons possibly know about climate science?

    (Do I need the /sarc ?)

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    Peter C

    I sense that the battle against the CAGW is coming to a crescendo as the Paris Conference approaches.

    Skeptics seem to be slowly gaining strength ( at least I hope so). The addition of the Societe Mathematique Francoise is but a small win. They are not an ancient or well known institution, as far as I can tell.

    None the less it does seem that the warmists might be exhausting themselves with this pushback. I think that they might get a win with Paris. After that the actual weather outcomes might decide the issue.

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    • #
      Aaron M

      Yes, I could only see that they formed in 1995, have a tiny little office but I can’t find any names or membership forms.

      40

  • #
    ExWarmist

    In the parlance of the modern media, this article is “Factual, but Inaccurate” and hence useless in advancing the dominant narrative of Man Made Global Warming, hence it will be ignored.

    If only it was “Fake, but Accurate” – and in conformance with the dominant narrative of Man Made Global Warming, then it would be on the front page, and the authors would be deemed geniuses and invited to COP 21 Paris, for 2 weeks of 5 star wining, dining and groupies.

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  • #
    handjive

    Doomsday Believer

    Terry Root often goes to sleep at night wondering how she’ll be able to get up the next morning and do it all over again.
    Then the sun comes up and she forces herself out of bed.
    She might go for a run to release the pent-up anxiety.
    Sometimes she cries.
    Or she’ll commiserate with colleagues, sharing in and validating each other’s angst.
    What keeps Terry up at night aren’t the usual ailments; it’s not a tyrant boss or broken heart.

    The diagnosis: global warming.

    Yahoonews.com: It’s the End of the World — How Do You Feel?
    . . .
    A couple of weeks ago I posted a send up of the Monkees song Daydream Believer.

    In light of this link, here it is again:

    V1.
    Oh, I could hide from the winds
    and the rain and all things
    The Doomsday alarm clock predicts but never brings
    But it rings and I rise
    Wipe the delusion from my eyes
    The summer snow is cold and it stings

    Chorus:
    Cheer up, sheepy Jean
    Oh, what can it mean
    To a Doomsday Believer
    and a climate drama queen

    V2.
    You still think of me
    As a denier of your doomsday
    Now you know how happy that makes me
    Oh, and our good times start and end
    With my dollar you want to spend
    But how much, (HOW MUCH) do you really need?

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I sometimes wonder if CAGW believers are not quite the full whatsit….or if its all just stage managed hysteria…

      40

  • #
    Misha

    Err, this document is NOT from the French Society of Mathematicians. The web site is probably individually owned and thus represents some individual’s view. The French Society of Mathematicians can be found at http://smf.emath.fr/. No word there about global warming. The days of fact checking in journalism seem to be long gone…

    Mischa, thanks. The heading was short for “A” French society of mathematicians. But since there is one, I’ve clarified that. – Jo

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    • #
      Pethefin

      Jo, you should have the translation check by a French-speaking person, this organization seems to be a private company not a professional society (SA corresponds to Public limited company (plc) in English).

      42

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      Yep, it seems to be about 8 people max.
      The founders:
      Bernard Beauzamy,
      Stephan Miquel.
      Plus past and current students:
      Adrien Schmitt,
      Cecile Haberstich,
      Guillaume Damart,
      Olga Zeydina.

      So Jo ignores the “97% consensus” because it was a survey of “only” 73 people, but get one guy to put the name of his company of only 3 maths lackeys on one paper and Jo certifies his opinion as front page material.
      Did Bernard Beauzamy poll his members to see if they agreed with this statement, or is it his opinion only?
      Could be the same as the old AGU position statement, the one the members never voted on.

      On the plus side, from their past contracts they do seem to be experts at trash-talking the maths of dud models.
      They have worked for both Total and AREVA, so no clear bias one way or the other in terms of pay cheques.

      Unfortunately their credibility takes a fatal hit with this statement:

      In other words, a local rise in CO 2 concentration may perfectly well derive from the fact that the ocean is absorbing less in the local area, for one reason or another, without human beings being involved at all.

      That statement shows they either have not compared atmospheric CO2 trends with industrial emissions or don’t understand how the Law of Conservation of Mass does not leave any room for doubt about the origin.

      It’s a big paper and just glancing through it is a mixed bag. They make good criticisms of the CO2 history, the surface stations, the K&T energy balance, etc. But then there’s ridiculous statements in it too, such as: “Unfortunately, geothermal activity (like solar activity) is practically absent from the academic studies that seek to analyze climate evolution.” Yeah we’re really missing that 0.09W/m^2, LOL.
      It’s not worth wading through the dross of this paper any further just to maybe find some gold.

      717

      • #
        AndyG55

        In other words, a local rise in CO 2 concentration may perfectly well derive from the fact that the ocean is absorbing less in the local area.

        Maybe correct.

        http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/mainco2mappia18934.jpg

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      • #
        AndyG55

        Historical CO2 measurements

        http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/CO2%20call2_r.jpg

        The circled ones are the ones “selected™” for pre-industrial values.

        53

      • #
        Geoff Sherrington

        Andrew,
        Can you assure me that no current changes in geothermal heat, including that at the bottoms of oceans, are not causing changes in current sea level estimates?
        Geoff

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          Andrew McRae

          SCM is talking about 20th century climate change, so I’m talking about 20th century climate change, not sea level. I don’t see how you are making a connection between the two topics. Most sea-level rise, if it happened geothermally, would come from the lower oceans heating and expanding long before that geothermal temperature pulse gets any place near the surface where it could manifest as climate. That is a process that takes hundreds of years, not fifty. So you can have as many of your geothermal angels dancing on the head of your sea level pin as you want, it makes no difference to the surface climate influences of solar activity, AMO, and CO2 that we have actually observed recently.

          Geoff, just read his paper. He shows a map of geothermal heat flux where the values are rarely more than 0.15 and the average looks around 0.09. He does not imply it is a model, he says “The map below shows the global geothermal energy flow.” Considering the facts he has in front of him, why isn’t he assuring you that changes in geothermal heat are not causing changes in current sea level estimates?

          A choice quote from his paper:

          Now, the action of the Sun and geothermal energy are fairly constant.

          It’s like a political speech built from dogwhistle phrases; Everyone hears what they want to hear. He is totally wrong about the action of the sun, as Neff, Shaviv, etc have shown observationally. Presumably you would also say that he is wrong about the constancy of geothermal flux? :)

          That is what I mean when I say “wading through the dross”. That guy is all over the map.

          There is also the odd fact that there has been no discernible acceleration in global sea level rise over the last 60 years, so I’m not sure how you can look for a cause when there is no effect to investigate. What “changes in current sea level estimates” did you mean?

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        Bertram Felden

        I was going to point out the same thing about this private company not being what Jo thinks it is. However, the fact that they were (probably won’t ever be again after this paper) consultants to the EU Environment Agency suggests that the good old professor got rather tired of the nonsense he was being exposed to on a daily basis. FWIW I suspect that most of his conclusions are correct, but it remains the opinion of one small group of people.

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  • #
    TdeF

    Simply brilliant!

    Trust the French to upset the French! In the true spirit of Rene Descartes. Evidence based science please. The IPCC and their climate modellers have brought the entire business of computer modelling into disrepute. Fit the past first. Only when dramatically successful, try to predict the future. Or in the words of an endless sketch in “Little Britain”. “Computer says no.”

    As for homogenization, that is a scientific crime, a cover for changing data to suit the conclusions and an utter disgrace for the BOM and other meteorological organizations involved in data fiddling. The whole business is so obviously, outrageously about politics and money, not science. Vive la France!

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    toorightmate

    The French Mathematical folk’s statement is music to my eyes and ears.

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    Harry Twinotter

    And just who are the Société de Calcul Mathématique SA?

    I am happy to wait for the peer-reviewed version published in a reputable mathematics or scientific journal.

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      TdeF

      You will be waiting a long time.

      Seems to be a 20 year old group, 10 staff. Central Paris. Assets of $500K. Profitable. Specializing in mathematics and mathematical modelling in the natural sciences field. A few books published and other works. Qualified people. It seems to be outside academia, competing in the commercial world of mathematical modelling and simulation, where your models have to actually work. So I doubt you are going to see peer reviews by people who have been predicting steady warming despite the facts. This is also not a university or other government group who justify their existence by the volume of journal publication. In the real world, your models have to work and with a similar background, I can fully agree with their comments.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        He may be waiting almost 20 years…or longer….arf arf…. ;-)

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      • #
        Harry Twinotter

        Tdef.

        “You will be waiting a long time.”

        So you have concluded they won’t be getting a peer-review of their white paper, seems a shame. Otherwise they will be accused of an “appeal to authority” argument.

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          AndyG55

          So.. absolutely nothing to counter the main statement and summary.

          Zero.. nada… zip !!

          The usually cry to peer-review journalism.

          DOH !!

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          TdeF

          Harry, you could try expressing your own opinion instead of writing in the third person. If you think the article is wrong, why not say so and why?

          As for an appeal to authority, the principal of this organization seems superbly qualified to formulate and express his opinions and they are damning. Why wait for the opinions of others less competent?

          Worse, Universities and the public service and quasi public service big companies are odd places where people tend to agree with each other because that is essential for survival and promotion, so peer review is not what it was. In sharp contrast, in the real world, you actually have to build stuff which works and models which fit the facts or you do not have a job.

          Man made Global Warming is a crock, political science, stories, even facts contorted to support a thesis of the evil West and evil CO2, not real science. Most of the people who come out swinging against Global Warming are retired, self employed, fiercely independent and very well qualified. The others are too busy or too scared or NIMBY. In this I appeal to my authority, based on my experience and in the words of Dinosaur expert Ann Elk, this is my theory.

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            Harry Twinotter

            Tdef.

            “Harry, you could try expressing your own opinion..”

            I did.

            “… writing in the third person… ”

            Ummmmm, what?

            “If you think the article is wrong, why not say so and why?”

            Not a chance – it is too long and too vague. Go look up the definition of a “Gish Gallop”.

            “As for an appeal to authority, the principal of this organization seems superbly qualified to formulate and express his opinions and they are damning.”

            Rubbish. They CLAIM to be qualified, but whey believe them? I dismiss them out of hand because of their Gish Gallop and the excessive use of political comments. But if a credible peer-review is done of the paper, then I am willing to devote some of my time understanding their points.

            “Worse, Universities and the public service and quasi public service big companies are odd places where people tend to agree with each other because that is essential for survival and promotion, so peer review is not what it was”

            This is your opinion, are you going to back it up with evidence? Personally, I think all you are showing is your bias.

            “Dinosaur expert Ann Elk”

            Monty Python fans are ten a’ penny :-)

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              AndyG55

              So.. absolutely nothing to counter the main statement and summary.

              Zero.. nada… zip !!

              The usually cry to peer-review journalism.

              DOH !!

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              AndyG55

              “excessive use of political comments”

              When you are battling a political agenda, that what you have to do. !!

              Its not about science any more, otherwise AGW would have died ages ago.

              A FAILED HYPOTHESIS.. barely even a hypothesis at all, just a vague, clueless idea.

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              Greg Cavanagh

              Harry, you refuse to give these mathematicians any credit whatsoever based on? They haven’t published it in a peer reviewed publication.

              Is that not an “appeal to authority” on your behalf?

              Unless it’s been published in a reputable peer reviewed journal, you yourself can’t judge its worth.

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                Harry Twinotter

                Greg Cavanagh.

                “Is that not an “appeal to authority” on your behalf?”

                No.

                15

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                el gordo

                ‘An appeal to authority is an argument from the fact that a person judged to be an authority affirms a proposition to the claim that the proposition is true.

                ‘Appeals to authority are always deductively fallacious; even a legitimate authority speaking on his area of expertise may affirm a falsehood, so no testimony of any authority is guaranteed to be true.’

                ——-

                From my perspective the Klimatariat is a pseudo scientific organisation.

                22

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      toorightmate

      You have been waiting for 18.75 years so far for no result, so a few more years will not worry you, old mate.

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      AndyG55

      You STILL don’t understand what peer review is for , do you.

      Stay ignorant, little child.

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      Vlad the Impaler

      BilB, Stephen, Frank, Harry: #28. Said it for you. No need to post … … …

      (Glad to help out … … … … … unnecessary to send $$$$ or thanks … … … )

      Regards,

      Vlad

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      Akatsukami

      Since no one in climate “science” is their peer, I don’t see how that could happen.

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      ELC

      Peer review is the process by which a scientist gets other scientists who agree with him to confirm, anonymously, that he’s right.

      Sure, it’s not supposed to be that way. But, “In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.” (Jan L. A. van de Snepscheut, Ph.D.)

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  • #

    I really wish people would stop promoting things like this. So long as “Skeptics” have standards so low they’ll do things like promote work which says we can’t even know atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are rising, there’s no reason anybody should take them seriously. If skeptics aren’t going to have to have any sort of standards, they shouldn’t complain when dismissed out of hand.

    If you don’t like being painted as crackpots and lunatics, maybe you shouldn’t stand next to so many of them.

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      toorightmate

      Please enlighten me.
      The 400ppm is +/- what?
      Or, in layman’s terms, what is the error of measurement.

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      Brandon is right. This is just crackpot stuff. Anyone want to defend the accuracy of this little gem:

      “Consensus, in contrast, means accepting what there is. For example:
      • Nobody wanted to let Christopher Columbus set sail,
      • All physicians opposed the research done by Claude Bernard and then Pasteur,
      • All physicists opposed Einstein‘s work.”

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        AndyG55

        That’s a pretty weak response, Nick.

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        el gordo

        ‘All physicists opposed Einstein‘s work.’

        Until they understood what he was on about and I’ll remind you that he did his best work while employed at the Patent Office.

        “Imagination is more important than knowledge.” Albert Einstein

        ——-

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        • #

          “Until they understood what he was on about”
          Well, he had to publish it first. That happened when he was 26, the same year Zurich awarded him a PhD (a rare honor then). By age 29 he became lecturer at University of Bern, and at age 31 full professor of physics at Charles Univ, Prague. This is not the career of an outcast.

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            el gordo

            His formative years give a clearer picture of the man, a loner who cultivated patience and perseverance, like building houses of cards.

            Didn’t like school and was a fairly ordinary student, and it was his Greek teacher who said ‘You will never amount to anything.’

            But when his uncle Jacob explained the Pythagorean theorem to young Albert (even before he studied geometry) and from then on his head was in the clouds.

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          Manfred

          All physicists opposed Einstein‘s work.”

          Einstein, when in the US was advised that 100 German (Nazi installed) ‘scientists’ refuted his work on Relativity. He remarked that it would only have taken a single scientific paper.
          So much for damned Consensus. So much for the damned Nazis.

          23

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            el gordo

            Its a bitter irony that Einstein was a pacifist all his life, yet in his Autumn years he helped develop a weapon of mass destruction.

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        AndyG55

        The “money statement…

        “There is not a single fact, figure or observation that leads us to conclude that the world‘s climate is in any way disturbed”

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        John Smith

        I read the whole damn paper linked from CE
        half of it describes the emissions trading scheme
        therein lies your crackpot stuff
        maybe the science is debatable
        the proposed solutions are madness

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    • #
      Harry Twinotter

      Brandon Shollenberger.

      “If you don’t like being painted as crackpots and lunatics, maybe you shouldn’t stand next to so many of them.”

      If climate change dissidents want to take a credible contrarian position, they have to avoid using fake experts. When they use fake experts, people will come to the conclusion that the contrarian position is based on ideology not science ie the dissidents are using an “the end justifies the means” tactics and are not interested in the truth.

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        AndyG55

        Still , Nothing from Brandon or you to counter the main statement or the summary..

        Just baseless ad homs.. because its all you have.

        65

      • #
        AndyG55

        The whole AGW scam is based on ideology , NOT science.. you are just too ill-educated to know that.

        And the whole scam is based on LIES and propaganda, or whatever it takes to get that initial FAKE headline.

        Look at the TOTAL HYPE of the “breeze” named Patricia. !!

        As you say.. whatever it takes. !!!

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    Ruairi

    Now worldwide the penny has dropped,
    On how climate-change ‘science’ has flopped,
    More skeptics in France,
    Take a spirited stance,
    And demand this French farce be stopped.

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    Dave in the states

    97 pages and still only scratching the surface. I mention this to point out the difficulty of the task of presenting the more correct science. The MSM is constantly offering up slogans, headlines, and sound bites, with little or no elaboration, or even the context.

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    E-Mail to SCM

    Dr Norman Page
    Houston

    Gentlemen
    The entire UNFCCC Global Warming Meme, based on CO2 as the main climate driver, has no foundation in empirical science and its current adoption as the basis for the worlds climate and energy policy should be exposed as the most colossally expensive failure of establishment science ever seen.
    I would be happy to collaborate with any further efforts you may undertake with view to destroying the scientific reputation of this house of cards.
    For my views see the series of posts on my blog at :
    http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com

    Here is an E-mail exchange with Professor Freeman Dyson which summarizes the current situation.

    “Climate and CO2- Exchange with Freeman Dyson
    E-mail 4/7/15
    Dr Norman Page
    Houston
    Professor Dyson
    Saw your Vancouver Sun interview.
    I agree that CO2 is beneficial. This will be even more so in future because it is more likely than not that the earth has already entered a long term cooling trend following the recent temperature peak in the quasi-millennial solar driven periodicity .
    The climate models on which the entire Catastrophic Global Warming delusion rests are built without regard to the natural 60 and more importantly 1000 year periodicities so obvious in the temperature record. The modelers approach is simply a scientific disaster and lacks even average commonsense .It is exactly like taking the temperature trend from say Feb – July and projecting it ahead linearly for 20 years or so. They back tune their models for less than 100 years when the relevant time scale is millennial. This is scientific malfeasance on a grand scale. The temperature projections of the IPCC – UK Met office models and all the impact studies which derive from them have no solid foundation in empirical science being derived from inherently useless and specifically structurally flawed models. They provide no basis for the discussion of future climate trends and represent an enormous waste of time and money. As a foundation for Governmental climate and energy policy their forecasts are already seen to be grossly in error and are therefore worse than useless. A new forecasting paradigm needs to be adopted.
    For forecasts of the timing and extent of the coming cooling based on the natural solar activity cycles – most importantly the millennial cycle – and using the neutron count and 10Be record as the most useful proxy for solar activity check my blog-post at
    http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com/2014/07/climate-forecasting-methods-and-cooling.html

    The most important factor in climate forecasting is where earth is in regard to the quasi- millennial natural solar activity cycle which has a period in the 960 – 1020 year range. For evidence of this cycle see Figs 5-9. From Fig 9 it is obvious that the earth is just approaching ,just at or just past a peak in the millennial cycle. I suggest that more likely than not the general trends from 1000- 2000 seen in Fig 9 will likely generally repeat from 2000-3000 with the depths of the next LIA at about 2650. The best proxy for solar activity is the neutron monitor count and 10 Be data. My view ,based on the Oulu neutron count – Fig 14 is that the solar activity millennial maximum peaked in Cycle 22 in about 1991. There is a varying lag between the change in the in solar activity and the change in the different temperature metrics. There is a 12 year delay between the activity peak and the probable millennial cyclic temperature peak seen in the RSS data in 2003. http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/rss/from:1980.1/plot/rss/from:1980.1/to:2003.6/trend/plot/rss/from:2003.6/trend
    There has been a cooling temperature trend since then (Usually interpreted as a “pause”) There is likely to be a steepening of the cooling trend in 2017- 2018 corresponding to the very important Ap index break below all recent base values in 2005-6. Fig 13.
    The Polar excursions of the last few winters in North America are harbingers of even more extreme winters to come more frequently in the near future.

    I would be very happy to discuss this with you by E-mail or phone .It is important that you use your position and visibility to influence United States government policy and also change the perceptions of the MSM and U.S public in this matter. If my forecast cooling actually occurs the policy of CO2 emission reduction will add to the increasing stress on global food production caused by a cooling and generally more arid climate.
    Best Regards
    Norman Page

    E-Mail 4/9/15
    Dear Norman Page,

    Thank you for your message and for the blog. That all makes sense.
    I wish I knew how to get important people to listen to you. But there is
    not much that I can do. I have zero credibility as an expert on climate.
    I am just a theoretical physicist, 91 years old and obviously out of touch
    with the real world. I do what I can, writing reviews and giving talks,
    but important people are not listening to me. They will listen when the
    glaciers start growing in Kentucky, but I will not be around then. With
    all good wishes, yours ever, Freeman Dyson.

    Email 4/9/15

    Professor Dyson Would you have any objection to my posting our email exchange on my blog?
    > Best Regards Norman Page

    E-Mail 4/9/15

    Yes, you are welcome to post this exchange any way you like. Thank you
    for asking. Yours, Freeman Dyson.”

    The UNFCCC,the consensus CAGW academic science establishment and their friends in the MSM are now producing a torrent of scary propaganda in advance of the Paris conference.
    It would be helpful if some organization or a group of empirical scientists could organize,and widely distribute in the media, a signed statement which calls into question the CAGW meme as a basis for climate and energy policy.

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      KinkyKeith

      Heartening to see the clear and well put together comments on the CAGW scam.

      Thank you.

      KK

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      James Murphy

      Forgive me, but my first thought was ‘wow, that’s an email from Freeman Dyson! Freeman Dyson!!’ Sorry, please excuse the small bout of hero worship.

      70

  • #
    Bite Back

    The impact on the entire field of scientific research is particularly clear and especially pernicious. No project can be launched, on any subject whatsoever, unless it makes direct reference to global warming. You want to look at the geology of the Garonne Basin? It is, after all, an entirely normal and socially useful subject in every respect. Well, your research will be funded, approved and published only if it mentions the potential for geological storage of CO2. It is appalling.

    The crusade has invaded every area of activity and everyone‘s thinking: the battle against CO2 has become a national priority. How have we reached this point, in a country that claims to be rational?

    Indeed, how have we reached this pitiful point in so many countries claiming to be rational?

    Because there’s power and money involved in pushing global warming as some model predicts it, a concept most people don’t really understand though they may think they do. So damn the data and damn the debate too. Otherwise there is no point to any of it. Science and its dependence on mathematics has always been irrelevant. The argument to this day is that it’s a done deal, there’s nothing more to learn and no debate is possible. The UN with its IPCC is king and you shall not buck the king. Just read any troll who comes along for confirmation.

    It’s sickening. :-(

    BB

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    Scott Scarborough

    What is “Upthrust Buoyancy?”

    50

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    James in Perth

    I find this Mathematical Calculation Society’s argument to be without substance. After all, have they received any government funding, any at all, for this? I thought so.

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  • #
    nc

    Mike that spent fuel can actually be used for fuel.

    20

  • #
    Gary Meyers

    Hi fellow humans! Has anyone kept a log of all of the scientific/economic types who have recently come out with evidence or opinions that the CO2 monster is so much rubbish? Add this to the list of prominent (and not so prominent) climate scientists and scientists, engineers, and mathematicians in a plethora of other fields, who are skeptical. Anyone know of such an archive?

    31

  • #

    This is a very funny post. A nice test of you all.

    517

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    Old farte

    A couple points about science:

    From the 1930s to the 1980s, “Cancer Science” agreed that radiation and cytotoxic chemicals were key to curing cancer. Unfortunately they effectively killed invader-fighting cells, i.e. leukocytes, lymphocytes and macrophages. When immunotherapy was suggested in the 1970′s the politically-powerful drug companies and oncologists were only willing to allow immunotherapies to be tried after radio- and chemotherapy failed. When people’s immune systems had been killed. In the late 70′s and 80′s. the “Consensus of Scientists” was radio/chemo was the right track, immunotherapy would not work. It took 40 years for “Consensus Science” to be shaken up.

    Let’s turn the swayback machine to 1300-1500. There were thousands of scientists searching for the way to transmutate base metals such as lead, into gold. These alchemists were sponsored by greedy nobles. Some of them undoubtably “salted” their reagents with gold powder to connive their patrons.

    They were competent scientists. They knew that metals could be produced from soil and rock. They knew that mixing copper and zinc could produce gold-like brass. It was just a matter of finding the right ore/metal mixture to make gold.

    All the gold-making alchemists and their successors, convinced the nobles, “Just give me a little more time, and money, and I’ll give you gold.”

    The scam was only ended because the New World was discovered, and the nobles’ attention was drawn to the enormous wealth-generating-potential of exploiting the Americas, including searching for real gold.

    Science can be misguided.

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    RealOZ

    Jo,
    What do you know about this French Mathematical Calculation Society?
    A quick Google has revealed little of anything except some claims that this paper is the work of an individual.

    30

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      KinkyKeith

      Yep probably true and a let down that it isn’t the Government Sponsored group.

      But, Einstein was also an individual.

      KK

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      • #

        and rightly his work was critiqued by sceptical scientists, not automatically believed just because it fitted someone’s beliefs.

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “There is not a single fact, figure or observation that leads us to conclude that the world‘s climate is in any way disturbed”

          Can you counter that statement.. or NOT.

          114

          • #

            err… would you care to define “disturbed”? If it means “change” then you probably don’t need me to find evidence. If you mean affected by human activity then I am also sure you are aware of many lines of evidence e.g changes in rainfall in and around land areas subject to mass land clearing. What specifically do you mean or do I need to keep guessing until I hit upon it?

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              AndyG55

              So.. absolutely nothing, just as I predicted.

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              • #

                Nice tactic asking vague off topic questions. Actually what is it a tactic to achieve? I was making a point about scientific rigour as applied to Einstein not evidence that the climate is disturbed. Ask me a question and I will try to answer it (unless I deam it to be trolling and that you have made no effort yourself)

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                AndyG55

                This is a direct quote from the paper.

                How can that be off-topic.

                Can you counter the statement.. or not?

                A leaf, trapped in a gutter. !!

                113

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            Misha

            Here is a link to countering 176 arguments used by those claiming global warming does not exist – http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php. Each “myth” has several pages with references to debunk the “myth”, with pages on one or more levels (basic, intermediate, and advanced). I’m sure that this could pretty much debunk all content in the whole paper, should you with to go through the hundreds of pages on the Skeptical Science website.

            Cheers, Misha

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              AndyG55

              Sorry, SkS is inadmissible as real evidence.

              Find some place that isn’t a full-on propaganda LIE.

              96

              • #

                So So.. absolutely nothing, just as I predicted. If you get around to asking me a question and I provide some sort of evidence will you just dismiss it thus?

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              • #
                AndyG55

                Can you counter the statement, or any part of the summary of the paper.?

                Yes.. or NO.

                Stop blowing in the wind, little leaf !!

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            • #
              AndyG55

              Just a hint to avoid you embarrassing yourself further..

              … citing SkS basically destroys your credibility from the start.

              Did you do Cook’s little climate course or something ??? ;-)

              85

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                Misha

                AndyG55, given that you are always after proof to debunk your arguments against global warming, I could reverse the onus of proof and say that you have supplied no evidence to prove that the arguments on the Skeptical Science website are in any way wrong. Ergo, your comment about destroying credibility has no credibility itself. Furthermore, I could say exactly the same about this site as being full of propaganda, and just about every site you site as a reference, because all these sites take the same position. These arguments are never going to go anywhere because everything you say about my sources can equally be said about your sources. Believe what you will, because no evidence on the other side of the argument will ever change your mind. I’m happy in my belief that man-made global warming is happening, just as you are happy to take the opposite view. I think we can say that the next 10-20 years will prove one of us right, and one of us wrong, and no amount of argument with change the facts by then.

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                AndyG55

                Poor Misha.. rant all you like. !

                SkS is trash.. and everyone knows it.

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                AndyG55

                Lubos went through the SkS list and absolutely destroyed every one of them.

                Maybe someone else has the link.

                Certainly not worth my effort trying to educate the uneducatable brain-wash drones.

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                KinkyKeith

                Misha

                The University of SkS has not paid any Government Fees applicable and so has NO STANDING.

                Fees outstanding are for tax years 10/11 11/12 12/13 13/14 14/15 and for the current year.

                That is the present state of their credibility.

                A completely rudderless organization simply posing as an authority and deluding the gullible.

                KK

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                James Bradley

                Misha,

                You’re asking AndyG55 to prove the null hypothesis – so the onus of proof is on you. There is no reverse onus of proof.

                The planet has been cooler and warmer, CO2 has been higher and lower, life continued to flourish, wain, adapt and overcome.

                Why is it that only the last 30 years of climate is contentious?

                Why is it that the last 18 years has seen no warming despite CO2 increasing?

                Why is it that climate ‘scientists’ will only research climate science when they are given generous grants?

                Why is it that believers claim Big Conspiracies when it is only believers who troll sceptic sites to close down the debate?

                Why is it that believers become sceptics, but sceptics don’t become believers?

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                AndyG55

                As there is really absolutely nothing untoward happening to the climate, there is absolutely nothing that needs proving on the skeptic/realist side of things.

                Yes, there was a slight, mostly solar forced, warming for 20 or so years at the end of last century. That finished, and now nothing for 18 or years.

                Yes, there has been some warming since the depths of the LIA.. thank goodness.

                Yes, the Arctic ice went to the low part of its natural AMO forced cycle.

                Yes, sea level rise has continued at a snail-pace, but with no acceleration.

                Yes, some glaciers have continued to melt as we finish the climb out of the coldest period of the last 10,000 years.

                Hurricane events etc are actually down somewhat. (Patricia turned out to be a kitten, despite all the hype, and they even had to invent a new term for Sandy, because it wasn’t strong enough to meet hurricane terminology)

                So please.. tell my something that HAS happened to the climate

                …. except that it has been extraordinarily benign of late.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                “So please.. tell my something untoward that HAS happened to the climate…” ?

                Where have they all gone ????????

                Anyone for crickets? Nearly the season.

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                AndyG55

                Oh. did I hear Misha not ask what the AMO is and what it does?

                Maybe this will explain..

                http://i51.tinypic.com/24yptu0.jpg

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              el gordo

              Misha shall we begin at the top and work our way through your list?

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              • #
                Misha

                el gordo, happy for you to address the items on the list, citing references, just as thoroughly as that list was composed. Probably easier for you to supply links rather than type out the hundreds of pages of text and diagrams that you require ;-) Personally I think you would be wasting your time as I’m happy to leave the science to those I respect in their fields, just as I go to a surgeon for surgery, or a car mechanic to repair my car. To have an operation I don’t need to understand anything about anatomy, just as to believe in global warming I don’t need to understand any of the science behind it. I just need to respect that those who have a career in such things are as dedicated and good as I am in their respective jobs (I work as a software engineer). So you carry on believing that man-made global warming is NOT happening, and I will go on believing that man-made global warming IS happening, and we shall see who was right in about 20 years time.

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                AndyG55

                Citing SkS is not Science, its propaganda, just for non-thinking people like you.

                Please produce something that is science.

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                AndyG55

                And just for you, Misha..

                http://theclimatescepticsparty.blogspot.com.au/p/ss-myths.html

                Now off you go and try to learn something this time.

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                James Bradley

                Misha,

                That old chestnut about going to a surgeon for surgery and car mechanic to repair your car.

                With the surgeon and the mechanic you are always advised get second opinions from other experts for alternative actions, why is it that climate ‘scientists’ have no alternatives?

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              • #
                AndyG55

                Somewhat less than 20 years.

                Going to be fun to watch the alarmista skuttering as the satellite temperatures start to drop over the next few years.

                (not in GISS/HadCrut of course.. that can’t be allowed to happen)

                The climate models are just so, so accurate ;-)

                125

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘I’m happy to leave the science to those I respect in their fields …’

                I’m not happy, global cooling has just begun and they are all looking in the wrong direction.

                83

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘…just as to believe in global warming I don’t need to understand any of the science behind it.’

                The science is fascinating, get involved and you won’t regret it.

                Argument from authority is a logical fallacy and best avoided.

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              • #
                Greg Cavanagh

                Carrying on from el gordo’s last statement:

                Particularly if you believe your right, but can’t be sure your right.

                You’ve got nothing but faith and trust in those who should be trustworthy. One day you’ll discover that they are not all trust worthy. (doctors and mechanics I mean; as well as everybody else no matter what job they have. You’re asking to be suckered).

                50

            • #
              AndyG55

              Just the first 3 are totally BOGUS load of carp.

              1. Humans are NOT the dominant forcing, not by a long shot.

              2. The warming that happened in the latter part of last century matches well with the series of very strong solar peaks. The world is now starting to cool as the lag in the climate system.

              3. Biosphere has increased some 15%, those countries with good solid energy supply systems have the longest human lifespan. The use of carbon fuels has been absolutely essential to the development of civilisations.

              and number 4 is the Cooked up consensus farce..

              And no 5.. a little video for you to EDUCATE yourself with. https://vimeo.com/14366077

              but enough is enough.. the SkS list is a load of CARP !!!

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            • #
              gai

              Popular Technology: The Truth about Skeptical Science

              Skeptical Science is a climate alarmist website created by a self-employed cartoonist, John Cook (who apparently pretends to be a Nazi). It is moderated by zealots who ruthlessly censor any and all form of dissent from their alarmist position. This way they can pretend to win arguments, when in reality they have all been refuted. The abuse and censorship does not pertain to simply any dissenting commentator there but to highly credentialed and respected climate scientists as well; Dr. Pielke Sr. has unsuccessfully attempted to engage in discussions there only to be childishly taunted and censored, while Dr. Michaels has been dishonestly quoted and smeared. The irony of the site’s oxymoronic name “Skeptical Science” is that the site is not skeptical of even the most extreme alarmist positions.

              John Cook is now desperately trying to cover up his background that he was employed as a cartoonist for over a decade with no prior employment history in academia or climate science.

              Thanks to the Wayback Machine we can reveal what his website originally said,

              “I’m not a climatologist or a scientist but a self employed cartoonist” – John Cook, Skeptical Science….

              Refuting 104 Talking Points from Skeptical Science (PDF) (28pgs) (Lubos Motl, Ph.D. Theoretical Physics, March 29, 2010)

              132

            • #
              Egor TheOne

              Prove this wrong >> https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/clip_image002_thumb1.jpg?w=597&h=279

              Ask that Propagandist clown Cook to prove it wrong with his Junk Site ‘Septic Science ‘

              Ask him why the change from Global Warming to Climate Change ?
              Your esteemed High Priests of doom made that change , not us !

              Because if the planet is not warming anymore , then the game is over !

              The whole argument is that industrial co2 is supposed to be heating the planet causing warming

              That clown Cook can not even justify his ‘Cooked CONsensus’ , let alone any science …….He is a Cartoonist and an eco-loon !

              How many dud predictions , prophecies and premonitions will your esteemed high priests make , before you question your religion ?

              Your crony leaders keep moving the goal posts but still haven’t got even one prophecy correct ……..it’s become laughable , except for the suicidal economic proposals suggested to combat global nothing !

              http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/climate-change-warnings-over-the-years.jpg

              82

            • #
              Matty

              Regardless of the primacy of evidence people will still use reputation as a proxy for evidence.
              The machinations behind the construction of the 97% consensus paper should leave little room for illusion about the integrity of the antithetically named Skeptical Skience site.
              ” Cook et al. set out to demonstrate the existence of an overwhelming consensus on global warming. While their approach appears to owe more to public relations than the scientific method, there is little doubt that there is a scientific consensus, albeit not the one that the authors of the paper have led people to believe exists.
              The consensus as described by Cook et al. is virtually meaningless and tells us nothing about the current state of scientific opinion beyond the trivial observation that carbon dioxide is a gas and that human activities have warmed the planet to some unspecified extent.
              The last word on the paper goes to Professor Mike Hulme, founder of the Tyndall Centre, the UK’s national climate research institute:
              The [Cook et al.] article is poorly conceived, poorly designed and poorly executed.
              It obscures the complexities of the climate issue and it is a sign of the desperately
              poor level of public and policy debate in this country that the energy minister
              should cite it. It offers a similar depiction of the world into categories of ‘right’
              and ‘wrong’ to that adopted in [an earlier study]: dividing publishing climate
              scientists into ‘believers’ and ‘non-believers’. It seems to me that these people are
              still living (or wishing to live) in the pre-2009 world of climate change discourse”.
              http://www.populartechnology.net/2014/12/97-articles-refuting-97-consensus.html?m=1

              33

            • #
              Tel

              I looked at the very first one of those “arguments” and I get this:

              So yes, the climate has changed before humans, and in most cases scientists know why. In all cases we see the same association between CO2 levels and global temperatures.

              But a quick scroll down to argument #50 “CO2 was higher in the past” tells you this: “When CO2 was higher in the past, the sun was cooler.”

              That’s strange, in ALL CASES we see the same association between CO2 levels and global temperatures, completely contradicted by, oh actually sometimes the sun was cooler.

              Well with a self contradiction on the first page, hardly seems worth banging head all night going through the rest of that junk. By the way, even in more recent times (such as the “Medieval Warm Period” there is no correlation between temperature and CO2) as this link shows.

              http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/11/does-co2-correlate-with-temperature-history-a-look-at-multiple-timescales-in-the-context-of-the-shakun-et-al-paper/

              So that’s basically why people pretty quickly give up on SKS, because it doesn’t even agree with itself, let alone physical evidence.

              23

              • #
                Harry Twinotter

                Tel.

                Yes, the sun was cooler – this is deduced from nuclear theory. The sun was cooler in the past, and has been slowly getting warmer. This process takes many millions of years.

                12

    • #
      Egor TheOne

      195 pages of substance in the download including the quoting of many scientific papers and authors.

      Much better than the rubbish and propaganda being barked at us from the doomists.

      83

    • #
      AndyG55

      So… nothing about the content ?

      85

    • #
      gai

      http://www.scmsa.eu/accueil_e.htm

      Bernard Beauzamy is CEO and he is no lightweight. He has been a university prof but had the guts to go out and compete in the real world where you are judged on results.

      CV de Bernard Beauzamy
      http://scmsa.eu/cvbb.pdf
      includes listing of
      11 Livres (books)

      107 Articles en mathématiques fondamentales

      9 Articles en mathématiques appliquées

      19 Dans le cadre du programme de recherche “Robust Mathematical Modeling”

      ResearchGate:
      http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Bernard_Beauzamy

      Expertise: Statistics, Probability Theory, Analysis (114 publications)
      Top Co-authors of papers:

      Gilles Pisier (3)
      Texas A&M University

      Paul S. Wang (2)
      Kent State University

      Emmeric Dupont (2)
      Atomic Energy and Alternative Energies Commission

      Robert O Bauer (2)
      University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

      Peter G. Casazza (1)

      141

      • #
        AndyG55

        Well found :-)

        74

      • #
        gai

        More on Dr Bernard Beauzamy

        Real Life Mathematics by Bernard Beauzamy

        I grew up in pure mathematics: after a Ph.D. under the supervision of Laurent Schwartz in 1976, I worked in functional analysis (geometry of Banach spaces, Operator Theory, polynomials). I was appointed as Professor at the University of Lyon (France) in 1979 and, during many years, like most mathematicians, I managed to conciliate research, teaching duties and Ph.D. supervision (altogether, I directed 23 theses).

        But, in 1995, I decided to leave my Professor position at the University and to start a company, named “Société de Calcul Mathématique, SA” (in short, SCM). What this company sells, and how it sells it, is the topic of the present talk. We have four branches: defense, environment, statistics and operations research. Let me describe, roughly speaking, what each of them does.

        — defense is mostly concerned with trajectography. It may be planes, submarines, missiles, or whatever, the topic is the same: find the best route under various constraints; to see as much as one can, to hear as much as one can, not to be seen, not to be heard, and so on.

        — environment has a permanent preoccupation. People in this area have some models, usually simple and empirical, and they want to investigate the quality of the model. For instance, you dig a hole, put some waste in it; how much of the waste will come out, 100 km away from the hole, 10 years later? The same concern holds, with other figures, for atmospheric and marine pollutions.

        — statistics is used for data analysis, in many situations. It may be about unemployment, or as a tool, in order to study the robustness of models coming from various situations.

        — operations research deals mostly with logistics. Companies want to improve the organization of their stocks, deliveries, the management of their factories and so on.

        In all these situations, there is a common factor: what is required
        from us is mathematical modeling. The problem is never given to us in a language where a mathematical tool, already existent, would be applied. It is always our duty to put the problem in mathematical terms
        , and this part of the work represents often one half of the total work, because one often has to change the model until we are sure it fits with the client’s requests. How do we know? Well, we don’t until we have presented preliminary results, and seen how the client reacts upon these results….

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  • #
    pat

    read all:

    26 Oct: ReutersCarbonPulse: Stian Reklev: Foreign firms drive trade in Guangdong ETS as low liquidity haunts pilots
    Two foreign companies account for as much as 80% of the volume growth in Guangdong’s carbon market in recent months, a conference heard on Monday, with speakers identifying the main factors holding back liquidity in China’s seven pilot schemes.
    Since July 1, just shy of 5 million allowances have traded in the Guangdong ETS, compared to only 3.2 million in the first 20 months of the scheme, making it the second most liquid of the seven pilots.
    “A couple of international investors have contributed a lot, 80% of the volume increase comes from them,” one source told a conference in Beijing, but could not be named as the event was held under ***Chatham House rules.
    Three foreign firms are currently registered to trade carbon in Guangdong, two of which are BP and Shell. The identity of the third has not been released.
    BP last week signed an agreement with China National Petroleum Corporation to cooperate on carbon trading…
    http://carbon-pulse.com/foreign-firms-drive-trade-in-guangdong-ets-as-low-liquidity-haunts-pilots/

    30

  • #
    pat

    ***new tactic…presume success at Paris.
    includes Poland, yet it’s arguing for something completely different from the rest.
    plus there’s a CAGW NGO touting China’s ETS, without a Reuters’ response that it’s a farce!

    26 Oct: ReutersCarbonPulse: Ben Garside: EU nations raise prospect of reviewing 2030 emission goals after Paris
    Several EU environment ministers on Monday called for a review of the bloc’s 2030 emission goals following a ***successful December UN climate conference, a move that raises the prospect of raising the 40% reduction target or changing plans to give free carbon allowances to industry…
    “Some expressed the wish to deepen the discussion in the light of the ***outcome of the Paris climate conference,” said Luxembourg’s environment minister Carole Dieschbourg…
    Five nations – Finland, France, Lithuania, Poland, and Slovenia – made the calls during a morning segment of the day-long talks…
    France’s Environment Minister Segolene Royal said in an emailed statement that the ETS proposal must take into account the developments of carbon pricing in the rest of the world…
    While Royal’s remark suggests deepening the EU goal, Poland’s comments were more defensive and raised the prospect that more carbon leakage protection be given to EU industries if other nations fail to match the bloc’s efforts…
    For environmental campaigners, the evidence is emerging ahead of Paris that the EU can easily deepen its emission goal and scale back free allocation…
    Yet some EU industries insist that even with the proposed free allocations to 2030, their industries face ruin without expanded carbon leakage support. “Recent research shows that the proposal would cost the industry around €34 billion in direct and indirect carbon costs between 2021 and 2030, wiping out the industry’s already squeezed margins,” said Axel Eggert of EU steel industry lobby Eurofer. “This proposal presents an existential threat to the 330,000 jobs that the industry supports,” he said in a statement.
    http://carbon-pulse.com/eu-nations-raise-prospect-of-reviewing-2030-emission-goals-after-paris/

    30

  • #
    Bulldust

    Global warming is going to render parts of the Middle East uninhabitable!!1!!one

    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/forecast-for-persian-gulf-a-heat-too-hot-for-human-body-20151026-gkj3do.html

    While humans have been around, earth has not seen that type of prolonged, oppressive combination of heat and humidity, Professor Eltahir said.

    Wow! i didn’t know we had temperature and humidity records going back a couple hundred thousand years. Can someone point me to the source please?

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    Egor TheOne

    Spare a thought for the upcoming Paris Climate Crusaders Hajj .

    Can you imagine the quality of the brethren to attend ?….. Gore ,Suzuki , Monbiot , Davey , our own Sage Flannery , international bankers , every eco-loon green group imaginable ,every lefty media outlet on the planet , sellout pretend scientists , the political elite taxation division , any and everybody with a vested interest especially wind and solar , ‘climate victims of sea level rise ‘ , and on goes the list !

    Lear jets parked everywhere with freeloaders aplenty …..wow ,what a crowd !
    One that might rival the Syrian refugee numbers .

    All the world’s problem makers rather than problem solvers in one place at the one time , with the bill to go to the rest of us !

    A perfect opportunity to lock the doors and throw the key away …… an instant solution to many of the world’s problems ….the grand roundup of eco – nutters , thieves , and manipulators at the multi – trillion dollar level !

    Its the age old story ….the rich have been doing it to the poor forever …..so many ruled by so few , with none of it justifiable .

    One day , somebody or a group will say ‘ no more ‘ !

    Otherwise ,how will there even be a next century for us with blatant global rackets like this allowed to continue and expand with more regulation , more taxation , more war , more discontent , and dwindling freedoms ?

    Beware , the lunatics are still in charge .
    Beware of the self proclaimed righteous ,Beware of the Pontificators , they only breed poverty for the rest of us .

    150

  • #
    pat

    26 Oct: ClimateChangeNews: Ed King: No secret Paris climate deal in making, stresses Tubiana
    France’s chief climate diplomat Laurence Tubiana could not have been clearer: “There is no plan B”…
    In most other arenas having a backup plan is a good idea. In the context of the global UN climate talks it’s the worst one possible…
    And so the French government has adopted a win-or-nothing approach for Paris. With strong emphasis on winning…
    After last week’s talks there’s now a 55-page document…
    The 134-strong G77 + China bloc of developing countries wants more evidence there’s cash in the pipeline…
    Speaking to reporters from Washington DC on a Friday evening conference call, lead US envoy Todd Stern said he was not “at all worried or concerned”. The text would be “refined and shrunk” he said…
    Russia’s Oleg Shamanov called for an extra session of talks. “The most experienced lawyers on this Earth would not be in a position to interpret this text,” he said…
    Amid the gloom there are some green shoots. Despite an overwhelming narrative of developed v developing countries some small yet extraordinary alliances across the divide developed last week.
    One – made up of Australia, Brazil, China, European Union, LDCs, Marshall Islands, Norway, Saudi Arabia, South Africa and the US – submitted a proposal relating to the communication of greenhouse gas cuts now and in the future.
    Another involving 47 countries offered thoughts on how carbon markets could be used to tackle global warming. The US, South Africa, EU, Brazil, Kenya and Togo were among those involved, as was Bolivia…
    Australia’s climate sceptic PM Tony Abbott is gone, while incoming Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau said last week the country’s days as a climate villain were “behind us”…
    Still – Everest awaits. The number of brackets surrounding words or phrases indicates there is no agreement, and this currently stands at 1500…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/10/25/no-secret-paris-climate-deal-in-making-stresses-tubiana/

    26 Oct: ClimateChangeNews: Ed King: UN to reveal scale of challenge facing Paris climate summit
    CRIB NOTES 26-30 OCT: Berlin to host INDC review launch, Figueres heads for London, Obama talks tough, Poles vote for coal
    Hurricane Patricia
    The storm that was the strongest in history – for a few hours at least – fell from a Category 5 to 2 before hitting Mexico’s West Coast on Friday…
    Still, it’s unclear if this particular episode can be directly linked to climate change – for more on that I’d recommend looking at Slate reporter Eric Holthaus’ twitter feed…
    Total death toll? Zero, according to US media…
    Any questions?
    Send UN climate chief (Christiana Figueres) a Reddit question…
    Poland election…
    The PiS is hostile to EU climate regulations and wants to scrap the 2030 energy and climate package…
    Canada comeback
    He (Trudeau) did not say whether he will scrap plans for the Keystone XL pipeline…
    Obama
    The US president just won’t drop this climate thing…
    Coming up this week
    Monday + Tuesday: Chatham House climate conference (London)
    Monday + Tuesday: IEA bioenergy conference (Berlin)
    Tuesday: Stranded assets conference (London)
    Friday: UN INDC report (Berlin)
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/10/25/un-to-reveal-scale-of-challenge-facing-paris-climate-summit/

    20

  • #
    pat

    can’t recall seeing this on WUWT!

    23 Oct: WaPo: Joby Warrick: Congressional skeptic on global warming demands records from U.S. climate scientists
    Chris Mooney contributed to this report
    The head of a congressional committee on science has issued subpoenas to the Obama administration over a recent scientific study refuting claims that global warming had “paused” or slowed over the last decade.
    Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Tex.), chairman of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology and a prominent congressional skeptic on climate change, issued the subpoenas two weeks ago demanding e-mails and records from U.S. scientists who participated in the study, which undercut a popular argument used by critics who reject the scientific consensus that man-made pollution is behind the planet’s recent warming.
    Smith’s document request to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration ordered the agency to turn over scientific data as well as internal “communications between or among employees” involved in the study…
    “This scandal-ridden administration’s lack of openness is the real problem,” Smith said in a statement released by his office. “Congress cannot do its job when agencies openly defy Congress and refuse to turn over information. When an agency decides to alter the way it has analyzed historical temperature data for the past few decades, it’s crucial to understand on what basis those decisions were made.”…
    In writings and speeches, Smith has frequently cited scientific studies that suggested a slowing or even a halt in the rise of global temperatures since 2000.
    The existence of a warming “pause” came under question following several new scientific analyses early this year. The study that prompted the subpoenas was led by NOAA’s Thomas Karl, who heads its National Centers for Environmental Information, and was regarded by many experts as a bombshell in the climate change debate…
    The result was that the “newly corrected and updated global surface temperature data … do not support the notion of a global warming ‘hiatus,’” Karl and his fellow researchers reported…
    READ ALL
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/10/23/congressional-skeptic-on-global-warming-demands-records-from-u-s-climate-scientists/

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  • #
    pat

    meant to write “can’t recall seeing this on WUWT or jo’s website”…

    30

  • #
    pat

    24 Oct: UK Telegraph: Emily Gosden: Cold winter could see power prices double, Ian Marchant warns
    Infinis chairman warns Britain’s tight capacity margin could see ‘very high spot prices that force commercial organisations to effectively ration demand’
    Britain’s “very tight capacity margin” meant there is a “very realistic possibility” of power prices spiking if there is an unusually cold winter, said Ian Marchant, chairman of Infinis Energy…
    National Grid last week confirmed that Britain faced the worst power crunch in a decade this winter as old coal power stations close…
    Marchant: “If we have a normal winter we will be fine, it is if there is a sustained cold spell – that is when the system will get under stress.
    “I am not talking about the lights going out, I’m talking about very high spot prices that force commercial organisations to effectively ration demand.”…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/11951913/Cold-winter-could-see-power-prices-double-Ian-Marchant-warns.html

    60

  • #
    TdeF

    Political Science.

    It has always been my view that Tim Flannery is a Science Fiction writer, a science essayist with a BA in English. Al Gore is the same. Amathematical. However there is so much faux United Nations science pushed at the public for blatantly political purposes, a better phrase is “Political Science”.

    No science previously has been so obviously invented for and by the extreme activist left of politics and all their sympathisers, some in positions of real power like the UN. Now even the facts are irrelevant to the mantra. Hand over money and power or else.

    The takeover of the Greens by the communists in 1988 produced a windfall of well meaning people who are prepared to believe anything is true, as long as computers and some scientists say so, supported by the public service media and endless numbers of economists. Computer models have become the high tech equivalent of sock puppets, saying whatever you want them to say. That is why this French group is upset. It is destroying their credibility and livelihood.

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  • #
    AndyG55

    Hey, has anyone got a link to the latest AMO data, please.

    My old link is from 2012.

    53

  • #
    pat

    ***note in 2nd & 3rd links what The World Today didn’t report:

    27 Oct: ABC The World Today: New chief scientist reopens nuclear debate for alternative energy future
    WILL OCKENDEN: In his first appearance with the Prime Minister as Chief Scientist, Dr Finkel reopened the debate on Australia’s energy future.
    If coal, oil and natural gas are to be replaced, he says, everything else – including nuclear energy – needs to be considered…
    WILL OCKENDEN: One thing is certain however, says the Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, and that is that coal will be sticking around for the foreseeable future.
    MALCOLM TURNBULL: Coal is a very important part, a very large part, the largest single part in fact of the global energy mix, and likely to remain that way for a very long time.
    So that’s, I mean that’s not my forecast, but the International Energy Agency’s forecast and many others.
    So coal is a very important part of the agenda…

    ***WILL OCKENDEN: Malcolm Turnbull has stayed away from the comments of his predecessor Tony Abbott that “coal is good for humanity.”***

    When asked about a “moratorium on coal” this morning, the Prime Minister said banning Australian coal exports would make no difference to combating climate change.
    MALCOLM TURNBULL: No, I don’t agree with a moratorium on exporting coal…
    And look, great respect to the people who advocated it, it would make not the blindest bit of difference to global emissions. If Australia stopped exporting coal, the countries to which we export would simply buy it from somewhere else…
    http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2015/s4339662.htm

    27 Oct: ABC: Incoming chief scientist Alan Finkel puts forward vision for Australia without coal
    By political reporter Anna Henderson

    ***He (Turnbull) said coal was continuing to play a big part in alleviating poverty in developing countries.
    “You’ve got to remember that energy poverty is one of the big limits on global development in terms of achieving all of the development goals”***

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-27/chief-scientist-finkel-touts-vision-for-coal-free-economy/6887578

    27 Oct: AFR: Malcolm Turnbull rejects coal ban as chief scientist talks zero emissions

    ***Turnbull: “So coal is a very important part of the energy agenda.You have to remember that energy poverty is one of the big limits on global development in terms of achieving all of the development goals, alleviating hunger and promoting prosperity right around the world – energy is an absolute critical ingredient.***

    http://www.afr.com/business/energy/malcolm-turnbull-rejects-coal-ban-as-chief-scientist-talks-zero-emissions-20151026-gkj8hi

    nothing of the MSM hysteria when PM Abbott said any of the above…and sanguine about nuclear as well. u have to laugh.

    50

    • #
      AndyG55

      Indonesia overtook Australia as a coal producing country in 2013.

      And they desperately want to continue expanding.

      The ONLY people we would be hurting by an embargo on coal exports would be ourselves.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      I suspect Goldman Sux has large holdings in the coal industry !!

      74

      • #
        Egor TheOne

        Old Goldman and Sachs of ..it would have global interests in everything especially ETS and co2 trading !
        They don’t want to stop coal . They don’t want to stop anything that they can increase their bottom line on .

        And if they lose , they will run to the tax payer funds bail out again …..being one of the too big to fail crowd !

        Debt Crisis was Created by Politicians and Central Bankers – Godfrey Bloom MEP
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnGxfrWaqP8

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    • #
      AndyG55

      With these comments, I could change my mind about NOT voting for Liberals under Turnbull

      Let’s see what he does in Paris.

      If he signs ANYTHING that transfers OUR money to the UN or the banksters, I suspect he is absolutely GONE.

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  • #
    Sunray

    Thank you Jo, for some more “inconvenient truth”, which I hope the TV Weather presenters will read, digest and broadcast.

    92

  • #
    Carbon500

    Elsewhere in this thread, Misha said that “……I’m happy to leave the science to those I respect in their fields, just as I go to a surgeon for surgery, or a car mechanic to repair my car. To have an operation I don’t need to understand anything about anatomy, just as to believe in global warming I don’t need to understand any of the science behind it. I just need to respect that those who have a career in such things are as dedicated and good as I am in their respective jobs…”
    Unless you take an interest in your car, Misha, you leave yourself wide open to being fleeced financially. For example, unnecessary work might be carried out and you could well be charged for it. Does your garage show you the faulty parts they’ve removed? Does suggested work by your garage really have to be done now, or can it be deferred?
    You seem to have far too much faith and trust in those claiming to be professionals! Do you really believe that all ‘climate scientists’ are capable and trustworthy?

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    • #
      Matty

      Professional primarily means making a living from.
      You can have faith in a tradesman’s or another professional’s competence & judgement but taking it all for granted may be costing you more.

      You should retain some independent means of verifying and remember that professional bodies exist to serve their professionals. Trust but Verify.

      All you can be certain of about professionals is that engaging them will cost you.

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    • #
      gai

      “…Unless you take an interest in your car, Misha, you leave yourself wide open to being fleeced financially….”
      ………….

      And that is the honest truth! The days of honest dealings are long gone.

      Despite having knowledge of my vehicle and the shop manual (which I left on the driver’s seat) I have had mechanics, mainly at dealers fleece me.

      Simple things like charging for an oil, lube and a brake job that was never ever done. Asking for top of the line brake pads and paying for them only to have the cheapest lowest quality installed… Now I sit and WATCH the work being done and insist on seeing the part in the package before it is installed.

      ****************

      As far as medical doctors go

      My Mom was killed by a doctor who used her as a Guinea Pig without her knowledge. (In the same year the same hospital killed ‘by mistake’ my boy friend’s mother and my best friend’s mother.) Mom was one of the American Nuclear Guinea Pigs: Three Decades of Radiation Experiments on U.S. Citizens

      PREPARED BY THE

      SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENERGY CONSERVATION
      AND POWER

      OF THE

      COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
      U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

      NOVEMBER 1986

      …Documents provided by the Department of Energy reveal the frequent and systematic use of human subjects as guinea pigs for radiation experiments. Some experiments were conducted in the 1940s at the dawn of the nuclear age, and might be attributed to an ignorance of the long term effects of radiation exposure or to the atomic hubris that accompanied the making of the first nuclear bombs. But other experiments were conducted during the supposedly more enlightened 1960s and 1970s. In either event such experiments cannot be excused.

      These experiments were conducted under the sponsorship of the Manhattan Projects the Atomic Energy Commission, or the Energy Research and Development Administration, all predecessor agencies of the Department of Energy. These experiments spanned roughly thirty years. This report presents the findings of the Subcommittee staff on this project.1

      Literally hundreds of individuals were exposed to radiation in experiments which provided little or no medical benefit to the subjects. The chief objectives of these experiments were to directly measure the biological effects of radioactive material; to measure doses from injected, ingested, or inhaled radioactive substances; or to measure the time it took radioactive substances to pass through the human body American citizens thus became nuclear calibration devices….

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        Uncle Gus

        I’ve heard of this one. Unbelievable, but true.

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        Yonniestone

        I’m so sorry gai my condolences to your family and friends, this is not only abhorrent but bordering on the macabre, terrible.

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        llew jones

        My younger brother was a doctor who regularly visited our home in the 1990s for a snack and chat after working in a local medical practice as a locum. He told us of his experiences working in the operating theatre when he was an intern. He said he saw more than a few patients lose their lives either from the incompetence of the surgeon and/or the anesthetist.

        Anyone who imagines that an alarmist climate change “scientist”, who trusts in models that cannot get the global temperature gradient anywhere near correct and in most cases doesn’t even understand the science he claims to follow, is even a fraction as competent as the practitioners in the medical profession has rocks in the head.

        Skeptics for the most part come from disciplines by which they are able to understand the GHG theory and associated postulates and know there are great inadequacies in our knowledge of Earth’s climate that invalidate the certainties of those belonging to the alarmist sect of climate science. For those who tend to be unskeptical look up the opinions and the rationale of highly qualified climate scientists who are not in the alarmist camp.

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    Karl Lauten

    I see a possible example of past ludicrous human behavior in the monuments on Easter Island. The theory is that the people used up all of their resources to build the big nosed “gods” in a never ending manic struggle to please their gods. The only thing separating the Easter Island scenario from today’s global warming religion is that the island has tangible, solid rock evidence to support the theory……big noses. The global warming myth has done tremendous damage to science, taking it to the new low level akin to a freak show, with one researcher after another prostituting science to get grants, see their name on some web site, and have other believers admire them for their devotion to this new religion. Rest in peace all you great scientist of history, your contributions will again be recognized once this mass hysteria has waned.

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    Uncle Gus

    “If we in France were to stop all industrial activity (let‘s not talk about our intellectual activity, which ceased long ago)…”

    It’s very French of them, but I wish they wouldn’t say things like that. Even if it’s true.

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    I would like to tell you of my latest book and documentary.
    ‘The Deliberate Corruption of Climate Science’.
    My latest documentary and video of my presentation.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPzpPXuASY8
    My website is
    Thank you.
    Tim

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPzpPXuASY8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO08Hhjes_0
    http://www.drtimball.com

    Debate between Dr Tim Ball and Elizabeth May
    Scroll down to Ian Jessop part 1
    http://www.cfax1070.com/Podcasts

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    Richard Hill

    Firstly, this reads well,
    but it is a waste of time to debate it here.
    Because it will be ignored.

    Secondly, are you all sure it is not a scam?
    Quoting “If we in France were to stop all industrial activity (let‘s not talk about our intellectual activity, which ceased long ago),”
    Isnt this article intellectual activity?

    Face up to it… the climate opinion war is lost.
    Rather than batting the topic around in Jo’s blog lets put our
    brains to work.
    What should be done by the losers when they have lost a war?

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    My comment which is to be found at The Global Warming Scam and Climate Change Superscam comes to the same conclusion. I have dismissed the claim that the temperature can be treated as different from the measured value is simply a fraud. The taking of these temperatures as climates instead of the large uncertainties is also a fraud.
    The large values of alternative greenhouse gases prevents a calculation
    .
    The value of carbon dioxide in the climate now confirmed by satellites, shows that their usage of carbon dioxide as a general figure is not valid,

    This wonderful survey puts my modest study to a sideline

    Vincent, so lovely to hear from you! — Jo

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    ScotsmanInUtah

    “Conclusions based on any kind of model should be disregarded….
    …Models are useful when attempting to review our knowledge, but they should not be used as an aid to decision-making until they have been validated.”

    There is that “V” word again… It always spoils the parties at Gavin Schmidt’s house !

    I think he has changed the theme of his parties from BYOB to BYOBS

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    tunage

    I read half of the study and as an mathematician and an engineer, after reading almost 2/3, the only valid point they make is that if we had 5 million more sensors, we would know for sure 100% and they could shut up.
    But we don’t and we use geological studies and observational evidenced (10 hottest ever years since 1998 is pretty convincing on its own or the photographs of the disappearing glaciers).
    We don’t have the additional 5 million sensors at this time.
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-cooling-january-2007-to-january-2008.htm
    ^^ and its gotten much worse since 2010.

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    See my Global Warming Scam and Climate Change Superscam for co,,emt.
    I have given although details and fraudsters together with other details

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    J T

    IPPC?

    —-
    I’m just quoting him… (sic) Well spotted. — Jo

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    [...] is being noticed and you can't hide the facts….even if you try to change them or make them up. http://joannenova.com.au/2015/10/fre…and-pointless/ googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-14'); [...]

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    Brianq

    What I can’t understand is the very old test with rat and a plant in a glass dome test. Where the plant and the rat survived because one produced CO2 and one produced oxygen and they swapped for their mutual benefit. Here is what I can’t understand, cut down half the planet put two mice in, pave half the surface and tell me there is no impact? I just can’t understand the logic there? Perhaps I am wrong but I go back to the movie the Matrix where Anderson tells Keanu reeves that he is a virus eating up the resources until the cell is destroyed. This seems to be in line with what we are doing. Look at the life of plastic bag, starts oil based is processed etc. and then lives for a useful life of 15 minutes carrying your food home before being thrown in the trash where it will take hundreds of years to break down. Maybe I am wrong and maybe climate change isn’t the right word but it seems to me we are living on borrowed time but keep going to the line of credit for more because it is easier to go deeper than to commit to constructive long term change. I wonder if the dinosaurs thought about change in there final days.

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      The original mind experiment starts with a system, in equilibrium. Such an approach assumes that the state of equilibrium will continue, until mankind comes in and deliberately, and significantly changes “the balance of nature”. Thus you assume that mankind (which is part of nature, and has been since the dawn of time) has that miraculeous ability. With the confines of the mind experiment, as stated, mandkind does not.

      But let us consider another possibility. What if one of the mice develops cancer, and dies? The plant is then getting half of the CO2 it needs, so it will eventually wither and die. What then happens to the remaining mouse? Without the oxygen produced by the plant, it too will die. And all of this happens without any influence from mankind.

      Quoting , The Matrix, which contains the personal views of the writers and the producers does not provide any evidence of anything, one way or another.

      And the analology with plastic bags has been well discussed on this, and other science sites. Define what you mean by “plastic bag”. Most plastic bags are made from cellulous, which comes from plant matter, you can place them in a compost heap, and they will disintegrate and rot down. Other plastics are made from complex hydrocarbons (hydro, as in water, and carbon, as in the element). They too will rot down, although it does take several months, but not “hundreds of years”, as you claim.

      No plastic bags are made from polymers any more. Polymers are the real nasties that should not go into rubbish tips. Polymers are used for buckets, and water containers, and toilet bowls, and other things that you don’t want to disintegrate without warning. Polymers should be, and are, repurposed into new articles, when they reach the end of their previous life as a drinking utensil, or a mobile telephone case.

      It seems to me that a lot of people who do not really undestand science, have decided to accept the opinions of other people who do not understand science, but pretend that they do, for political reasons. Everybody lives on borrowed time, since we all die eventually. But it is wrong to spend what life we have, living in fear about things we do not cause, and cannot change. Our earliest ancestors perpetually lived in fear because they did not understand why their environment behaved in the way that it did.

      They thought about change, and questioned why change occurred. This led to a reliance on religion, which eventually gave way to rational thought and the development of both logic and science. That was the time when they first noticed that climate changes, in a cyclic fashion. They learnt to live with those changes, and we should too.

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        Gee Aye

        Pulling apart another’s argument by pointing out fallacies is fraught. Consider this sloppy aside

        which is part of nature, and has been since the dawn of time

        which is only the starting point of another fallacy filled argument pulling apart your argument

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    Balram

    It´s the first time that I´ve come through such a genuine exposée in FRance ” Chapeau” to those who have been able to publish this article which is genuine and acurate. MY question is and it is really time to act, are all of you who agree with the exposée ready to have an open debate with facts and evidences on a web TV and why not on the national TV??

    Let me know, I can try to find with Arte´s Journalists etc..
    Best
    Balram

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      Balram, if you are serious we will find someone to debate. David and I are willing of course, but far away. We have tried several times to organize debates but almost no believers are willing to do it. – Jo

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