JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend unthreaded….

Anything you want to discuss? – Jo

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135 comments to Weekend unthreaded….

  • #
    Carbon500

    Shrinking of the Arctic seems to be the flavour of the month.
    Has anyone got any references from reputable scientific journals for a good summary of all the factors which affect the extent of Arctic Ice, and whether the current post-summer ice extent is at all unususal?
    Welcome back after the hacking of your website Jo, reality returns!

    20

    • #
      Jaymez

      Carbon500 as I am sure you would know, the Arctic Sea Ice record minimum referred to relates to satellite measurements which have only been available since 1979 so it is unsurprising that we are at a likely low point for northern hemisphere sea ice. But there is that period is not even a blink of an eye in the Earth’s climate history. There are lot’s of references for different periods. For more recent times we rely largely on journal records and anecdotal reports of sea ice extent but there does seem to be plenty of evidence that sea ice has been much lower during the last 10,000 years. See http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/paper-finds-arctic-sea-ice-extent-8000.html If you follow the link you can register free to get the entire paper.

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    • #
      Jaymez

      You might also be interested in this paper Anomalies and Trends of Sea-Ice Extent and Atmospheric Circulation in the Nordic Seas during the Period 1864–1998 http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/1520-0442%282001%29014%3C0255%3AAATOSI%3E2.0.CO%3B2

      The paper looks at the impact of ocean circulation and temperatures and correlation with ice extent as well as atmospheric temperatures and when the ocean circulation and atmospheric temperatures positively and negatively correlate to increase or decrease melt rates. Clearly the paper does not conclude that human GHG emissions are the primary factor and does not find and exponential melt rate.

      30

    • #
      AndyG55

      The low ice caused by the breakup by a cyclone has recovered very well and is now pretty close to the normal post 1998 level.

      107

    • #
      turnedoutnice

      http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php

      Current fast freezing because of all that extra heat loss from the open water has led to the ice getting back to normal levels!

      20

  • #
    pouncer

    Are CAGW believers more, or less, likely than skeptics to also believe? :

    Did the energy company, Kerr-McGee, arrange the assassination of plutonium worker Karen Silkwood?

    Do car makers and fuel companies routinely suppress the inventions supporting the “100 mile per gallon” carburator?

    Can production of “Brown’s Gas”, using simple household chemicals and basic plumbing equipment, convert tap water into a hydrogen-rich fuel?

    Is “Alar” — a pesticide used on apples in the United States a few years back, carcinogenic?

    Are hand-made “organic” tampons and sanitary napkins made safer than the products offered by giant paper-makers like KimberlyClark or Proctor&Gamble, which may use synthentic presevatives, be contaminated by cotton-crop pesticides, or treated with animal-tested anti-fungal chemicals?

    Does daily use of underarm deodorant raise the risk of breast cancer?

    Should other trace nutrients such as boron, manganese, potassium, etc be added to drinking water just as we’ve proven can safely be done with fluoride?

    Is US standard 60 Hz AC current more dangerous (resonant to a frequency that triggers epileptic seizures) than European standard 50 Hz current?

    Oh Lew? Can you please arrange a follow up study?

    80

    • #
      Otter

      Hello Pouncer!

      Just wanted to comment on one item in your list: anti-fungals.

      My wife and I raise small rodets for the pet stores. We are currently having a skin-rash problem with our dwarf hamsters. We’ve gotten several products to help that but, just out curiousity, we looked up the ingredients of Head and Shoulders shampoo (which contains zinc, which does work on some skin problems).
      Oddly enough, HnS contains anti-fungals. Apparently, a Lot of things contain anti-fungals, and have for a long time.

      I think the ‘organic’ part of the equation, is the bogus portion.

      Anyway. Karen Silkwood was driving an experimental car, who’s carburator got 100 miles to the gallon of Brown’s Gas, while eating an apple coated in underarm deoderant ( to disguize the Alar). She was washing down with flouridated water when she suffered an epeleptic seizure from the experimental 60Hz current running thru the car.
      Lew was taking notes in the back seat.

      And now, I am going back to bed.

      80

      • #
        Byron

        Otter ,
        the reason You`re having rash problems with Your hamsters is more likely due the the ph levels in shampoo designed for humans being too low and far to harsh for a hamsters skin than the presence of anti-fungals . The ph of human skin is quite acidic with a ph of around 5.5-6 where most other mammals tend to run around 6.5-7.5 . Try searching the net ,as I`m sure someone must make a hamster or rodent specific shampoo that is ph balanced . If You can`t find one then consult with Your vet to see if a cat or dog shampoo would be safe .

        p.s. My venerable rottweiler-cross`s skin loves the anti-fungals in Her dog shampoo as She`s acquired a fungal allergy as She`s got older

        20

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      I would doubt that CAGW believers are any more likely to believe these other topics, than the general population at large.

      Believing in one impossible thing before breakfast, does not imply the capacity to believe in an infinite number of improbable things by lunch time.

      40

    • #

      I accept the evidence for AGW and will answer your questions honestly.

      Did the energy company, Kerr-McGee, arrange the assassination of plutonium worker Karen Silkwood? Karen who?

      Do car makers and fuel companies routinely suppress the inventions supporting the “100 mile per gallon” carburator? I don’t know…do they?

      Can production of “Brown’s Gas”, using simple household chemicals and basic plumbing equipment, convert tap water into a hydrogen-rich fuel? No

      Is “Alar” — a pesticide used on apples in the United States a few years back, carcinogenic? I don’t know enough about it. Feel free to bathe it in if you like.

      Are hand-made “organic” tampons and sanitary napkins made safer than the products offered by giant paper-makers like KimberlyClark or Proctor&Gamble, which may use synthentic presevatives, be contaminated by cotton-crop pesticides, or treated with animal-tested anti-fungal chemicals? I wouldn’t know. I idn’t know you could get hand-made organic tampons.

      Does daily use of underarm deodorant raise the risk of breast cancer? There’s no evidence to suggest so.

      Should other trace nutrients such as boron, manganese, potassium, etc be added to drinking water just as we’ve proven can safely be done with fluoride? I don’t see why not but I would question if the cost is worth it.

      Is US standard 60 Hz AC current more dangerous (resonant to a frequency that triggers epileptic seizures) than European standard 50 Hz current? What do we have here in Australia?

      Oh Lew? Can you please arrange a follow up study? On what? Inane questions “sceptics” ask to try and prove some point?

      06

  • #

    Hi, Jo,

    Watts, TallBloke, von Storch, Lafamboise, the New Zealand guys (sorry guys, brain freeze!) are all producing or have produced original work calling into question the temperature record, the ways that the temperature record has been adjusted or the ways in which the data has been misrepresented to show strong, CO2-dominated CAGW-level global warming. (I could include those who chart the non-rise of the seas and the non-sense of wind & solar power as viable, large-scale energy technologies, but I’m making a different point here.) All of these things, by themselves, are like random shots on a battlefield: individually effective but not impressive.

    There was a good reason why the continental armies held off firing as their enemies came near and then fired en masse: the collective roar scared the crap out of their opponents and caused their spirit to collapse when the bodies fell instantly all around them. Though the analogy is extreme, I’m suggesting that this is what the warmists have done with the IPCC reports, and what the skeptics need to do in return: pull it all together and let fly at once.

    I see the true, original studies by various technical groups being published as an official, in-your-face tome that can be presented as a complete study into the various houses of parliament, Congress etc. Peer-reviewed as a group, perhaps, to speed up the process. By themselves, like evidence in a court of law, each piece of the puzzle is not conclusive, but together, they are compelling.

    As a skeptic, I don’t see my ability to influence the CAGW craziness in denying any global temperature change, but in showing two things. One, that the alleged temperature rise of 0.8C (or 0.9C in New Zealand?) is at the top end of the data collected. That perhaps 0.4 or 0.5C is more likely. That drops the rise to non-IPCC models, and a rise that is not catastrophic, besides non-CO2. Two, that the alleged signs of global warming are from observational, emotional and ideological bias (such as the non-rise of large storm events). The first knocks down the extent of the rise, ending the CAGW models, and the second, the perception that the world is already ending.

    What thinkest thou? As long as the Heartland Institute isn’t involved (shades of the Unabomber), that is.

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    • #
      Carbon500

      Doug, I think you’ve got it absolutely right. Trying to find information on all the aspects of CAGW takes ages, and even then not all the pieces I want are in one paper.
      The books by Professors Ian Plimer and Robert M. Carter sit along those of journalist Christopher Booker and Dr. Roy Spencer and a few others on bookshelves otherwise collapsing under the weight of tomes about the supposed impending catastrophe.
      Maybe books aren’t the way to go in these internet days.
      Like it or not, ‘Skeptical Science’ is a slick website, with their arguments well presented. However, it’s clearly a propaganda-based site masquerading as science based. They don’t participate in any normal scientific dialogue, deleting comments and facts from visitors to the site that contradict or don’t suit them, and use abrasive non-scientific playground language such as ‘gish gallop’ in an attempt to belittle contributors. A website for normal scientific discourse it ain’t – but how many menbers of the public realise this unless they’ve got a science background?
      I think there’s a need for a website which presents real, easily accessed data-based evidence countering CAGW – preferably backed by bona-fide meteorological researchers. Otherwise, I have the feeling the ‘sceptics’ are losing ground in their battle for the minds of the public. THE CAGW brigade have got their propaganda dissemination techniques highly polished – look no further than Gore’s book or the SkS website – and the ‘sceptics’ have got a lot of catching up to do on this front.

      00

      • #
        Howie

        AGW was never about the science. That should be evident to anyone who has read Laframboise’s book or Lawrence Solomon’s The Deniers.

        00

  • #
    Carbon500

    Jaymez, thanks very much for your input on Arctic ice – I’ll be following up the references you’ve given.
    While I’m at it, there’s something else I’d like to put to readers.
    ‘Acidification of the oceans.’
    Given that even the IPCC give a range for ocean pH, I don’t know where the supposed average increase of 0.1 units caused by (of course) AGW has come from. It sounds like utter nonsense to me.
    Calculated, computer modelled, or measured? I notice that it goes quiet when a ‘warmist’ gets told that pH operates in a range. I wrote to the oceanography department of a well-known university some weeks ago asking what pH measurements existed to support this alleged increase, and I’ve had no reply.
    Perhaps somebody out there can help!

    40

  • #

    @Carbon500 – on the acidification thing …

    http://jennifermarohasy.com/2008/07/ocean-acidification-photographs-from-bob-halstead-and-a-note-from-floor-anthoni/

    Floor Anthoni’s material:

    http://www.seafriends.org.nz/issues/global/acid2.htm

    I’m resident on the sw shore of the Coral Sea, so I keep an eye on the antics locally. Acidification still gets included, but these days, usually lower down the page rather than in the shock/horror headlines.

    20

    • #
      Carbon500

      Martin, thanks very much for these links. There’s a lot of helpful information here, particularly on actual measurements of ocean pH which have been made.
      I’ll settle with a cup of tea and have a good ‘read’.

      00

  • #

    I have been chronicling Bioregionalism run out of the UN and ICLEI and Agenda 21 which is what is telling cities they may not expand past a certain point and tying it into the Club of Rome and its current environmental, educational, and economic assaults. In this post I talk about Spence Rogers who took over the US Outcomes Based Educational franchise but his partner, William Spady, began working mostly in Australia and South Africa after the Columbine tragedy. What I am describing in terms of how the classrooms should be largely based on emotions and redefining values is hugely influential now in Australia which is also using Nel Noddings and CASEL from the US to consult of how to implement student wellbeing.

    Systems thinking is little more than Hayek’s scientism where you use pedagogy and psychology and the monopoly over classrooms to try to change values, attitudes, and beliefs to alter future behaviors in predictable ways. Instead of individualism the student is told they are just a part of the more important whole. The classic example of systems thinking is Bronfenbrenner Ecological Systems Theory that is widely use in the training of NZ and Australian teachers. And Canadian.

    http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/using-systems-thinking-to-retie-the-psychological-umbilical-cord-to-our-environment/ is a post that ties it all together because all of these things are related. We are dealing with a stealth power grab over people and economies through both education and environmental policy.

    And if that title seems a bit graphic, it was a repeated quote on the need to destroy the rational mind so the group and the environment and all officially designated “common goods” have primacy.

    You said open and sunlight is the best disinfectant I know of. It will take widespread understanding to stop all this.

    40

  • #
    MadJak

    Just some rambling….

    So JuLiar claims that Tony Abbott “Has a problem with Women in Power”

    And yet JuLiars partner is not exactly a man in any really powerful role (a Hairdresser) and is rarely seen in public with her (locked away int he back room somewhere).

    I would argue that JuLiar has a problem with men being in a position of power.

    Also, all these accusations of Tony Abbott being sexist – and yet I hear no valid examples of anything he has said or done that would be classed as sexist – it seems to be a lot of guilt by association going on from where I am sitting.

    JuLiars politburos constant playing of the Gender/sexism card are, in my opinion the only overtly sexist action taking place in the parliament.

    I dunno, maybe by me asking these questions I’m a mysogynist. If so then so be it.

    110

    • #
      Truthseeker

      MJ,

      Good questions.

      50

    • #
      Chris in Hervey Bay

      We should all visit http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/ to see what the real Julia has been up to in the past. It is a real eye opener backed up with real documents. I cannot see her lasting much longer.

      80

    • #
      debbie

      MJ,
      As a female, I am absolutely horrified that our politicians have elected to play this misogyny/sexist card.
      They have successfully undone several decades of good work in relation to gender equality.
      I also squarely blame the Labor party for bringing it up in the first place….but I am no more enamoured with the other side for continuing to allow it to be played in this manner.
      It was always going to come back and bite all of them…..and bite them hard!
      It’s a red herring anyway….clasic diversionary tactic.
      Playing that female vs male card in that manner is simply a no win scenario….but the Labor Party will pay more dearly for it because it is no secret that they played the card in the first place.
      The whole lot of them….and unfortunatley mostly the WOMAN (yep it’s Julia) who has allowed it to continue…have an indelible black mark against their name IMHO.
      Some sort of ill advised PR exercise to try and get some electoral sympathy by the looks of it.
      The MSM are loving it of course and it has diverted attention away from the issues that we would expect responsible Australian Governments to be dealing with.

      101

      • #
        debbie

        And probably designed by a male!

        42

        • #
          MaxL

          Sure was debbie,
          John McTernan

          30

          • #
            Winston

            The same John McTernan who attempted to smear the most innocuous SNAG, wet blanket in human history, conservative in-name-only PM-to-be David Cameron as a misogynist in the lead up to the British election. Perhaps they can all join a list of similar eminent “misogynists” like Elton John, Gandhi and Nelson Mandela.

            To cast invalid or unsupported aspersions upon someone in the form of a label, like racist, chauvinist or misogynist used to carry with it at least an onus of evidentiary support as this was rightly considered an egregious tactic to smear by association and attempt to destroy an opponent’s reputation without either recourse to defend oneself in right of reply, or public expectation of solid and SUBSTANTIAL evidence to back up the assertion. Such is the media now failing in their duty of objectivity that we see such a tactic successful, as any criticism is dismissed as partisanship.

            30

          • #
            debbie

            Thought so!
            Ticks me off completely!
            What a bunch of idiots.
            If he’s the man… then he should be held accountable for the damage he has wreaked on the good work that has been done in this country for gender equality.
            And I seriously did think that Julia had more sense.
            Stupid stupid stupid!!!!
            She deserves everything she gets from the backlash this has created…..stupid person!…AND….it’s got nothing to do with GENDER!!!!!
            Just straight out ill advised PR.
            I think the Labor Party needs to sack their PR dept….they’re not doing them any favours at all.
            Their market research is obviously narrow and overshadowed by some very arrogant ‘know it alls’….who have completely lost touch with reality.

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          • #

            I wonder if the whole thing could not be defused by perhaps Julie Bishop especially.

            She could get up in The House and call out those on the Government side who have played this Misogynist card, say especially, Tanya Plibersek, Nicola Roxon, the Prime Minister herself, and Penny Wong in the Senate as Misandrists.

            After rushing off to look it up, I wonder how soon those named women would ask the Speaker that the statement by Julie Bishop be withdrawn.

            Tony.

            40

          • #
            MaxL

            Personally Tony I think it best to leave the childish name calling to the Labor Party.
            As Debbie has shown, adults will recognize them for what they are – immature.
            My daughter just sent me an email, and her response was a copy of Debbie’s.

            Let them continue they are only soiling their own nest.

            30

      • #
        MadJak

        Debbie,

        I have been wondering for a while how much of this is really just a follow-on effect of when opportunities really were closed to Women (and others). I wonder how much of the current debacle is actually related to the types of women who forged their way through and how that has influenced their views and coloured their thinking too much.

        In otherwords, maybe they won their battle but haven’t realised that after winning for their cause that maybe it was time to stop being combative?

        In otherwords, I look forward to seeing people – male and female to come through the system not thinking that the system is gamed against them.

        If JuLiar and Helen Clarke are anything to go by, I view them as both being fighters who helped pave the way for others, but they ended up becoming spoiled goods along the way.

        I’m sitting here wondering if I have a problem with women in authority – purely because I have issues with the way JuLiar and Clarke played the gender card for their cheap political stunts.

        But apparently, this is probably just me being a sexist mysogonist. If so, then it is a badge I wear with pride.

        10

    • #
      AndyG55

      Liked the way TA just looked his watch. Next time he should take a copy of War and Peace in and start reading that.

      How to rile a child chucking a tanty…. IGNORE HER. !!

      50

    • #
      AndyG55

      I think if I’d been on the receiving of a spray like that, I would have made a simple short reply…..

      “Nice self-analysis, Julia” !!

      Her ranting reflects ONLY on herself.

      30

    • #
      memoryvault

      .
      Tony Abbott certainly does a problem with women in (political) power – he isn’t capable of handling it. Unfortunately for Tony he was brought up “old school” – just like me and I suspect, many others here. One affords a level of respect to women simply because they are women – opening doors, giving up seats and so on.

      What poor Tony has failed to grasp is that there are no women – or men – in the upper level of politics, only politicians, just as there are no women or men on the boards of large companies, only Directors. Anybody ruthless enough to claw their way to the top of either pile is a breed apart, where the niceties of gender have long been left far behind.

      Much as I detested Paul Keating, can anybody imagine him standing there like a stunned mullet copping the serve Abbott did from Gillard?

      No.

      Given what the vote was all about, Keating would have immediately labelled Gillard as the “Prime Mussel”, Roxon the “Abalone General”, the handbag brigade would have become “those puerile pickled herrings”, and every male on Gillard’s side of the House would have henceforth been referred to as “Gillard’s Mussel Men”, including the Independents.

      “And what a salty lot they are, too”, Keating would have sneered. Just for a bit of variety, female members could alternatively be referred to as “botches”.

      And he wouldn’t have let up – he would have insisted everybody in his party continue to use the analogy right up to and including the next election. Every speech, every public utterance, every press release.

      And what could anybody say? The vote, after all, was about the use of these very words by the Speaker of the House. If it’s perfectly acceptable for use by the highest elected official of the land, then it must be acceptable for everybody else in politics, surely?

      Abbott’s problem isn’t that he’s sexist, or a misogynist,
      it’s that he’s perceived by Gillard and Labor as a wimp when it comes to women.

      .
      In a way they are right, and they are successfully exploiting it to the hilt.

      40

      • #
        Winston

        With all due respect MV, that is not a fair analysis, given that the majority of the press gallery were in love with Keating, and hate Abbott, while Keating never had to contend with a female PM, who 50% of the population want desperately to be a successful reflection upon their gender (even notwithstanding voting against her for her policies). Keating in the same position would have been faced with exactly the same dilemma, and would have made a few glib remarks and expressed his indignation at the aspersions, and thought better of feeding into the meme being created.

        Unfortunately, until women realize that being equal in political life means being subjected to the same scrutiny, personal attacks, backstabbing and nastiness that male politicians endure on a daily basis, then this double standard will endure where female politicians can say or do anything without recourse to criticism, while their male colleagues must walk on egg shells when confronting them. Unless of course they are conservative women, who are rendered gender neutral in the eyes of the press and are fair game for anyone to have a go at.

        I actually am optimistic that many women are perceptive and sophisticated enough to realize they are being played, and hopefully the dawning of that realization will allow some return to normalcy. And just as a comparator, MV, can you imagine Margaret Thatcher carrying on in the vein of our leader in playing the sexist card. I think not, because whatever her faults she stood on her own merits in a man’s world, and beat them at their own game.

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        • #
          memoryvault

          Unfortunately, until women realize that being equal in political life means being subjected to the same scrutiny, personal attacks, backstabbing and nastiness that male politicians endure on a daily basis, then this double standard will endure

          No Winston, it’s not the women who have to “realise” it, it’s the men – like Abbott. The women – Gillard especially – know it all too well. That’s precisely why she is doing what she is. Because she knows she can get away with it.

          What’s being done to Abbot is nothing more than a form of playground bullying. And bullies don’t stop until you hit them as hard as you can right between the eyes.

          .
          As far as the press gallery goes, contrary to popular myth, at a personal level Keating was despised because he treated them like dirt.

          But he was respected – for precisely the same reason – a trick he learned from Bjelke Petersen.

          The current press gallery – particularly the women – have zero respect for Abbott in this matter because they also see him as a wimp.

          50

      • #
        AndyG55

        Gees MV.. when your enemy is charging over a cliff.. you don’t distract them !

        Sure, TA was probably a bit embarrassed, but so is a mother in a supermarket when their child chucks a tantrum.

        50

        • #
          memoryvault

          .
          Julia Gillard is finished, she knows and the Labor Party knows it. Consequently she has been given one final task before departing from the scene – destroy Abbott.

          None of this has anything to do with the polls as such. It’s all about destroying Abbott and getting him replaced so that somebody else, anybody else, leads the Liberals into the next election.

          In a way it’s tacit acceptance by labor that Abbott is the best person for the job. Getting him replaced could just mean the difference between Labor getting totally annihilated at the next election, or merely devastated.

          This is why John McTernan was brought out. To the best of my knowledge he has never been associated with a successful political campaign. But he is an expert at wrecking political careers.

          Is it working?

          Just this week I have read five different articles about Abbott’s “suitability” as Leader. This a well-oiled, well coordinated plan.

          And yes, it’s working.

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          • #
            Juliar

            Maybe the Libs should play hard ball and discuss some of Gillard’s comments and policies about women when President of the Australian Union of Students (AUS).

            “Prostitution takes many forms and is not only the exchange of money for sex. … Prostitution in marriage is the transaction of sex in return for love, security and house-keeping.”

            Wives are Prostitues, eh? I wonder what would happen if the Libs started to discuss that.

            20

          • #
            AndyG55

            Julair,, I have no doubt Gillard has exchanged her favours for money or power on many occasions..!

            ooo, excuse me…. I feel sick .. !!!

            10

        • #
          memoryvault

          .
          And how do you deal with a child chucking a tantrum in the supermarket?

          Many, many moons ago my wife was in a supermarket line with our then three year old son, who chucked his first, and last, tantrum in a supermarket.

          She was embarrassed, and didn’t know what to do.

          A much older lady in front of her turned and said, “well what are you going to do? Let him grow up as a spoiled brat, or thump him now and get it over with?”

          As I said, first, and last tantrum.

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      • #
        debbie

        I agree they attempted to exploit it MV.
        Don’t think it’s successful though.
        AndyG55 is closer to the mark IMHO….it’s embarrassing.
        They all need to stop….and whoever was responsible for playing this card needs a good kick in the “you know whats!”…because it was probably a male anyway.
        Seriously….all of them have done more damage to the good work done in this country for gender equality than I have EVER seen.
        None of them….including Julia….care one little bit about gender equality….otherwise the whole lot of them WOULD JUST SHUT UP!!!!!!

        20

        • #
          AndyG55

          ““you know whats!”…” assuming the person is a male :-)

          40

          • #
            AndyG55

            To hurt a male, kick him in his “you know whats!”… to hurt a female kick her in her .. ego/vanity.

            ooo.. I’ll get into trouble for that one !!! :-)

            50

          • #

            AndyG55,

            how right you are.

            Witness Germaine Greer and the jacket comment.

            Tony.

            20

          • #
            Len

            According to a shearer the kick to the you know what’s is more effective on females than males.

            20

          • #
            Andrew McRae

            Tony I had to research your comment to discover what event you were alluding to, because I am not a Q&A fan and don’t follow the chatterbox often. Hehe, ah, superficial but still funny, especially as Greer’s description reminded me of that hilarious Peter Sellers scene as Clouseau…

            She leads my government but she is not my monkey. One day I came home to find she was the Prime Minister. I let her stay, but she pays for her own room and board.

            Zen zee monkey is breaking ze law! :D

            10

        • #
          Andrew McRae

          Debbie,
          Have you followed Anna Burke’s antics over recent years, and how do you interpret her recent declaration that as the new Speaker she will not be partisan, and will hold the government to account.

          00

          • #
            Debbie

            I would like to see all of them, incuding Anna Burke, do their job!
            This misogynist/sexist thing looks more like a very ill advised red herring than anything else.
            As a female, I am not impressed at all.
            If misogyny/sexism was a rampant problem in our society it would not be possible to have a female PM.
            That doesn’t mean all is perfect. But this lot are talking rot!

            30

      • #
        Jaymez

        Yes Memoryvault you forget that the largely left wing media would have accepted that from Keating but would not have put up with that from Abbott.

        00

    • #
      llew Jones

      The problem with the ALP federally is not sexist attacks but incompetence from Gillard down. That is more likely to be because some of those women in power are lawyers, whose stock in trade is lying, (for their clients of course) but in the case of these women in authority it is obviously a hard habit to break. That coupled with a lawyer’s reliance on “expert opinion” is one reason we as a country are in such a mess on the climate change and economic front.

      The whole charade of the ALP blanket vote for Peter Slipper indicates that they cannot even be honest with themselves.

      As a successfully long term and happily married man I learned very early that women (apart from one’s mum) tend to be bullies and I have operated on that useful basis through this happy marriage. Gillard and her female cohorts are aggressive bullies. My lovely missus at the blink of an eye on a forgotten anniversary etc, can produce speeches like Gillard’s diatribe.

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      John Brookes

      Dickhead

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    handjive

    Return to Antikythera:

    Divers revisit wreck where ancient computer found

    Between 1900 and 1901, the sponge divers retrieved a string of stunning antiquities, including weapons, jewellery, furniture and some exquisite statues.
    The sponge divers who salvaged its cargo worked in clunky metal diving suits with little understanding of the dangers of diving at such depth.

    But their most famous find was a battered lump that sat unnoticed for months in the courtyard of Athens’ National Archaeological Museum, before it cracked open to reveal a bundle of cogwheels, dials and inscriptions.

    It was the first marine wreck to be studied by archaeologists, and yielded the greatest haul of ancient treasure that had ever been found.
    Yet the salvage project – carried out in treacherous conditions with desperately crude equipment – was never completed.

    So this month, armed with the latest diving technology, scientists are going back.

    It has taken scientists over a hundred years to decode the inner workings of those corroded fragments, with x-ray and CT scans finally revealing a sophisticated clockwork machine used to calculate the workings of the heavens (video).

    Dubbed the Antikythera mechanism, it had pointers that displayed the positions of the sun, moon and planets in the sky, as well as a star calendar, eclipse prediction dial and a timetable of athletics events including the Olympics.

    Nothing close to its complexity is known to have been created for well over a thousand years afterwards, and the emergence of mechanical clocks in medieval Europe.

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    pat

    it’s all over bar the shouting…or shouting at the bar! much more at the link:

    13 Oct: Daily Mail: David Rose: Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released… and here is the chart to prove it
    The figures reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012 there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures
    This means that the ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996
    The world stopped getting warmer almost 16 years ago, according to new data released last week…
    The new data, compiled from more than 3,000 measuring points on land and sea, was issued quietly on the internet, without any media fanfare, and, until today, it has not been reported…
    Some climate scientists, such as Professor Phil Jones, director of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, last week dismissed the significance of the plateau, saying that 15 or 16 years is too short a period from which to draw conclusions.
    Others disagreed. Professor Judith Curry, who is the head of the climate science department at America’s prestigious Georgia Tech university, told The Mail on Sunday that it was clear that the computer models used to predict future warming were ‘deeply flawed’.
    Even Prof Jones admitted that he and his colleagues did not understand the impact of ‘natural variability’ – factors such as long-term ocean temperature cycles and changes in the output of the sun. However, he said he was still convinced that the current decade would end up significantly warmer than the previous two…
    The regular data collected on global temperature is called Hadcrut 4, as it is jointly issued by the Met Office’s Hadley Centre and Prof Jones’s Climatic Research Unit…
    Not that there has been any coverage in the media, which usually reports climate issues assiduously, since the figures were quietly release online with no accompanying press release – unlike six months ago when they showed a slight warming trend…
    Like Prof Curry, Prof Jones also admitted that the climate models were imperfect: ‘We don’t fully understand how to input things like changes in the oceans, and because we don’t fully understand it you could say that natural variability is now working to suppress the warming. We don’t know what natural variability is doing.’…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released–chart-prove-it.html

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      Streetcred

      Even Prof Jones admitted that he and his colleagues did not understand the impact of ‘natural variability’ – factors such as long-term ocean temperature cycles and changes in the output of the sun. However, he said he was still convinced that the current decade would end up significantly warmer than the previous two…

      He would have to remain a believer or he won’t have a job. Think of the ridicule and scorn that would be heaped upon his miserable cranium.

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      handjive

      Another news item debating along the same line was from “lukewarmer” Roger Pielke Jr.:

      Along with colleagues around the world, I’ve been studying climate change and disasters for almost 20 years, and we just had a scientific paper accepted for publication this week on damage from U.S. tornadoes since 1950.

      What we found may surprise you:
      Over the past six decades, tornado damage has declined after accounting for development that has put more property into harm’s way.

      Researchers have similar conclusions for other phenomena around the world, ranging from typhoons in China, bushfires in Australia, and windstorms in Europe.

      After adjusting for patterns of development, over the long-term there is no climate change signal — no “footprint” — of increasing damage from extreme events either globally or in particular regions.

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      Good old dodgy Phil!

      In response to this report he say’s: “15 or 16 years is too short a period from which to draw conclusions.”

      No doubt Phil remembers in 2009, when the plateau was already becoming apparent and being discussed by scientists, he told a colleague in one of the Climategate emails: ‘Bottom line: the “no upward trend” has to continue for a total of 15 years before we get worried.’

      Well Phil, you’d best get started.

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      John Brookes

      But Pat, I still remember, clear as yesterday, when Phil the dill said that there was no statistically significant warming since 1995. But now thing appear to have moved – to 1996. I’m guessing, and please show me I’m wrong, that right now, the warming since 1995 to now is statistically significant.

      And I’m betting that the warming since 1995 will be significant every year from now on. And that in a year or two the warming since 1996 will be significant, and so on.

      But don’t worry, it won’t be because of CO2, it will be because we are coming out of the LIA.

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      • #
        debbie

        John,
        Anyone with even half a brain knows that if you change datum points (in this case that would be calendar points) then the results will change….LIKE DUH!!!
        Using a model based on moving averages will not necessarily mean anything ‘statistically significant’ in terms of anything much at all….especially when dealing with such a chaotic beast as the climate/weather.
        It’s possible to make something like the human choice of red underwear look ‘statistically significant’ if we chose to focus on that.
        So of course we can focus on CO2 or the LIA or or any number of other ‘variables’ and find a statistical % and call it ‘significant’ but that’s all that’s happened.
        Time and ‘real time data’ (ie realiity) will be the final judge….as always.
        There are so many, many predictions…. the law of probability dictates that at least a few of them will luck it.
        Not a particularly good basis on which to create wide reaching social policy however.

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      John Brookes

      The data used is apparently HADCRUT4, and is from 1997 to 2012.

      So at Wood for Trees, I plot this and get:

      Which looks like it is still rising to me.

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    inedible hyperbowl

    I have oft asserted that CAGW is a political rather than scientific issue. To alert people to the scam, the politics must change.
    To get an idea of how difficult this task will be, consider the behaviour of the Canberra press gallery with its apologetic approach to the worst government since federation. There has been little or no criticism from the MSM, indeed the MSM has ignored the worst of the incumbents.
    Do not get me wrong here, I am not saying that if you are of the left then you believe in CAGW, I am saying that CAGW has become a core belief of our MSM and a core (policy) belief of the ALP. To argue against CAGW is to be derided (e.g. “nutjob and misogynist”, “conspiracy theorist”).
    The fact that the CAGW scam can take hold and consume gadzillions of dollars worldwide, to me, indicates how easily the political agenda can be manipulated. CAGW as a scientific theory was demolished a long time ago, yet it still holds political sway in Australia.
    How do we change this?

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      The problem, or one of them at least, is in the Press Gallery system. As a journalist, you cannot just waltz up to Parliament and start asking people questions. You first have to be accredited to the Press Gallery, and agree to abide by the rules imposed on the Gallery by the Speaker of the House.

      Now, I can’t speak for Canberra, because I have never worked there. But in Westminster and Wellington, these rules closely constrain where and when a member of the Press Gallery can ask questions directly of the Prime Minister or other Minsters.

      Questions outside of these constraints can be submitted in writing, and a written reply will be received. But of course the written reply will have been crafted by a PR wonk to remove any resemblance to the truth.

      There are also some unwritten rules, such as only reporting on the actual policy position of each of the parties. So, if all of the parties have a policy on CAGW, then that is what is reported. Even if Members say privately that they think it is a crock, if the policy is different, it is the policy that generally wins.

      Being in the Gallery carries quite a few perks, so positions are competitively sought after. The journalists know that it only takes one phone call to an editor, to have them replaced, so they have a strong incentive to toe the line. The easiest way to do this is to simply reword some of the daily Press Releases in to the editorial style of the media outlet.

      And thus the Fourth Estate becomes diminished beyond all recognition.

      To stop the rot, requires you to open the windows and let some fresh air in. Or in this case, let some resemblance of the truth out.

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    pat

    handjive -
    in the denver post pielke jr opinion piece u linked to, he also said:

    But there is one group that should be very concerned about the spreading of rampant misinformation: the scientific community. It is, of course, thrilling to appear in the media and get caught up in highly politicized debates. But leading scientists and scientific organizations that contribute to a campaign of misinformation — even in pursuit of a worthy goal like responding effectively to climate change — may find that the credibility of science itself is put at risk by supporting scientifically unsupportable claims in pursuit of a political agenda.
    http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_21752735/climate-spin-is-rampant

    the damage has already been done. time for an accounting.

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      inedible hyperbowl

      I agree pat that the damage has already been done. However, credibility is like virginity, once lost it is gone forever.

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    Leon

    I was greatly impressed by the book by Henrik Svensmark, “The Chilling Stars” and by the related youtube video “The Cloud Mystery”. I’ve been seeing articles lately about how a solar hibernation may happen, (something about the North versus South solar hemispheres beginning to act differently from each other?) and Dr. Abdussamatov was warning of a new Little Ice Age (LIA) after 2014, apparently predicted based on a 200 year magnetic cycle of the sun. I want to know more about the likely timing of a cold climate shift. Is climate not going to be significantly changed until a decade after 2014? Is the LIA expected to persist for a full 200 years?

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    Eliza

    Has WUWT been hacked? Its looks really weird the main page

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    Here is a refresher link about the MWP:

    The Medieval Warm Period – A global Phenomenon

    Handy for those who irrationally still fight the evidence.

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    So then, what is the problem with large scale electrical power generation?

    One word.

    ROTOR

    Let’s look at Bayswater.

    It has 4 turbine generator complexes. Constructed in the late 70′s, it used the best technology available at the time. Those huge (for the time) generators (in reality Turbo Alternators) can generate 660MW each. Each generator weighs 1,342 tonnes.

    The electricity is generated in the Stator which is made up of (literally) miles of wire windings.

    To generate electrical power pass a wire through a magnetic field and there is a current flow along the wire.

    More powerful magnet – greater current flow.

    Wrap heavy gauge current carrying wire around the magnet and it increases the magnetic field (the classic electromagnet) – greater current flow.

    Cool the magnet for an even greater magnetic field – greater current flow.

    More magnets – greater current flow.

    More speed when passing that wire through the field – greater current flow.

    More wires – greater total current flow.

    While the Stator is stationary (naturally) the moving part in the case of the generator is the Rotor, which naturally ….. rotates.

    Now while the generator in its totality weighs that huge weight, the rotating part, the Rotor makes up only part of that weight, and that would be around half the weight say 700 tonnes, heavy electromagnets etc.

    Now, while it is easy to say that weight, 700 tonnes, that has to rotate to induce the current in the Stator.

    700 tonnes ….. rotating.

    700 tonnes ….. rotating ….. at 50 revolutions a second.

    Snap your fingers and then immediately snap them again. 700 tonnes rotating 50 times.

    Therein lies the problem.

    Making that huge weight rotate at that (constant never changing) speed.

    Hence something has to drive that, like the fanbelt in your car drives the alternator which provides the power for all the electrics in your car. The engine itself drives the fanbelt which drives the alternator.

    In the case of a huge generator, Bayswater there is a three stage turbine, and just saying that gives no idea of its size. It’s similar in operation to a jet engine, only 5 times the size or even more, both in length and across, and beware, that jet engine comparison is an over simplification to just generally give some sort of idea. There are three stages.

    Now something needs to turn that turbine, and in the case of Bayswater, that is steam, monumentally huge amounts of high pressure high temperature steam. The steam is made in the boiler which is heated by the furnace which is fed with coal, at the rate of one ton of coal crushed to talcum powder consistency fed into the furnace every 18 seconds, so with all 4 units in operation at Bayswater, it’s going through one ton of coal every 4.5 seconds.

    It all works backward from the huge weight of the Rotor. Everything is designed to make that Rotor turn over at 50 times a second.

    Now, it stands to reason that new technology is better. Better magnets with better magnetic hysteresis properties, more magnets, more heavy wiring around them, supercooled Rotor.

    Also, add in more wiring in the Stator and an even greater power can be generated.

    It still has to rotate at that 50 times a second, and some can even rotate slower now, but they need extra electronics to convert to 50Hz (60Hz in the U.S.)

    See how it’s all dependent on that Rotor.

    With better technology, they HAVE lowered the weight of that Rotor, and having done that, everything then works backward from that.

    Smaller newer technology turbine, better steam making capabilities from smaller and better boilers, critical, super critical, and ultra super critical furnaces that burn the powdered coal better, at a higher temperature, and more efficiently. Better coal crushers, better coal feed.

    As a result, even greater power can be generated from smaller and lighter generators, now around 1200MW in some cases. (large Nukes have been using generators greater than 1000MW for decades now, but they are the same era technology as the older (Bayswater age) generators for coal fired plants, hence they are huge when compared to Bayswater, and also when compared to the new technology generators currently generating more power.

    As a result less coal needs to be burned and here I mean considerably less coal, because everything is so much better.

    So, for Australia to be sticking with these old coal fired plants, we are in fact emitting more CO2 than those new tech plants, that are only being constructed in China.

    Keeping in mind the rotor weight, Wind towers can only support a certain weight, and the blades can only drive a certain weight, hence the average sized Wind tower is around 2.5 to 3.5MW.

    Concentrating solar has the problem in that it can only make a certain amount of steam, and that then decides the size of the generator, the weight of the rotor that the steam has to turn over. Currently that is around 50MW, and it’s problematic that they could actually double that, and that may take years, with the only prospect of improvement being in the size of generators, or the weight of the Rotor that needs to be turned over.

    Generator technology (in reality Rotor technology) is critical ….. if we want to reduce CO2 emissions.

    It’s a difficult concept to grasp, and sometimes even more difficult to explain, but once you see the scale of what is required, a lot of things fall into place.

    Tony.

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      Tel

      A rotor can rotate more slowly if it has more magnetic poles. So you can double the number of poles and halve the rotations per second to get exactly the same synchronous output. In a turbine, you don’t want it turning too slow… turbines are only efficient when they spin fast.

      The size and weight of the rotor doesn’t actually cause it to be inefficient, because all that kinetic energy is just stored energy in the rotor — to harm done. It is a big problem trying to stop and start a heavy rotor, so facing variable demand is the heart of the problem (however there’s also heating and cooling cycles to consider).

      The stuff about using electronics to convert a variable speed rotor to grid frequency is pretty cool. That’s the way to go for the future, but anyhow we can wait for other countries to take the risks on new ideas, then we catch up later. Probably people will argue on that one, but I’m not enthused by our current government’s ability to distribute subsidies to industry. You must admit that the solar industry has at least improved the state of the art in electronics (which no doubt was going to happen anyways).

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      Tony,

      Since we are unthreaded …

      I understand how power generation works at least in theory, when it concerns a single generator.

      I can imagine how you could synchronize the phasing of multiple generators at the same site by using power from one generator to run others up to speed (treating them as motors), before applying the power to the drive shaft of the (slave) generators.

      But how do you synchronize dozens, or hundreds, of wind turbines to all rotate in phase on a distributed network, without generating any unwanted harmonic shifts?

      You can tell I was an electronics major, I guess …

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        Rereke,

        the same applies with all generators. Bayswater has 4 of them, and when maintenance is scheduled, that must be done with plenty of notice. Working backwards, the generator, while running at full speed is taken of line. (off the grid) It is then (very slowly) run down in speed, and backwards from there the turbine is slowed, the boiler is then taken out of service and the furnace slowly cooled, the crusher stopped and the feeder stopped. In the hours and days taken for the generator’s huge weight to slow down carefully, it is brought to a stage where it is still rotating at around a couple of revs, because to stop the thing fully places all that weight on the shaft, and bend the shaft and that’s curtains for a (very) long time.

        After any maintenance to the whole complex from the crusher right through to the other side of the Generator, the whole process winds back up again, also very slowly. Once fully back up to speed and running smoothly, then the output frequency is synchronised to the grid frequency, exactly, sine wave to sine wave. Then, and only then, the generator is connected back to the grid.

        Now, as you can see form this the optimum performance for the whole complex is at that normal operating speed and output.

        Now, why I said all this is that this then relates to every form of power generation. All of them can only be brought on line if the sine wave outputs match the grid. Every time a wind tower comes on line, that is done at the source of the wind plant, with each individual tower having the electronics to match those frequencies perfectly each time it comes on line, and that would be an automatic thing. The problem now is not a set number of generators as it was with traditional power plants, but now there are a multitude more, as each wind plant has not four generators, but anything up to and beyond a hundred or more of them.

        Now perhaps you gain an inkling of the problem associated with rooftop solar power. Instead of having a couple of dozen as with how it used to be with traditional power plants in earlier times, you now add hundreds of wind towers, and thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of individual rooftop solar plants.

        Can you now envisage any future problems with the grid, and how the grid in years to come will struggle, and struggle, and struggle and then crash. When it crashes, that strains the majors, and as they run into overload, they too are removed form the grid, overloading the next and so on, a cascading crash that instead of a minor blackout will take considerably longer to fix, and here I’m not talking hours, but days ….. and days …. and days.

        When that happens all hell will break loose.Crash and burn suddenly a large scale generator at a coal fired plant and you are looking at chaos on a scale unimagined. Stop it suddenly, and you bend the shaft, and then you’re looking at weeks at best.

        What’s easier to handle One Bayswater with 4 turbine generators or (at an equivalent 2.5MW) 1056 wind towers, and that only equals the Nameplate Capacity. and you will only get between a third and a half the actual power for consumption.

        The ability to control 4 generators is infinitely easier than trying to control 1056 of them.

        See the point?

        Do away with coal fired power. Tell ‘em they’re dreamin’

        Tony.

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          Rereke Whakaaro

          Thanks Tony,

          It is good to have that explanation somewhere I can reference it if/when I need it.

          And the Greens would like to see the world a simpler place … ?

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    Newchum

    A book published in 1977.The Weather Conspiracy

    The Coming of the New Ice Age: End of the Global Warming Era?
    review by Zombie

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    Newchum

    Sorry my link at #16 was not a success can someone google “The Coming of the New Ice Age:End of the Global Warming Era?+Zombie” and provide the link for me please.

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    KeithH

    Julia Gillard was asked at her 23/8/12 surprise press conference:
    “Prime minister, are you satisfied your conduct as a lawyer throughout this matter was ethical”? PM: “Yes”.

    Following are the details of what she considers to be “ethical”. Neither she nor anyone else, has ever offered one shred of any evidence in defence of her actions, nor has she ever made any statement nor provided any record of any statement, affidavit, or Statutory Declaration under which she could be held accountable!

    She has given two pathetic demonstrably laughable excuses : “I was young and naive”; and/or “I was deceived by a conman”. Gillard constantly repeats one of her biggest, most easily disproved lies to the Australian people: “I did nothing wrong”!
    MSM journalists and ideologically constrained sycophants throughout many professions have accepted that as “proof” along with the fact that many who should have brought her to account for her actions, for reasons of their own, have given her “the benefit of the doubt”, when in reality there was none!

    1. As a solicitor and officer of the court, the moment she entered an ongoing intimate relationship with AWU employee Bruce Wilson in 1991, she deliberately chose political ambition over any ethics and/or principles she may or may not have once held.
    In so doing she wilfully contravened the Rules of Practice under which her Practising Certificate was granted.

    2. In so doing she also knowingly and deliberately breached her obligations of duty of care to her partners and one of her principal clients the AWU.

    3. By concealing her relationship from the AWU and most of the equity partners of S & G, who were her employers, she knowingly and deliberately committed
    further breaches of her obligations of duty of care to all parties.

    4. When she deliberately chose to advise and assist her boyfriend Bruce Wilson and accomplice, fellow AWU employee Ralph Blewitt, to set up and incorporate an association to enable them to open and operate bank accounts, she knew, and was fully aware that;
    (a) she again would be contravening the Rules of Practice;
    (b) by doing so she would breach every relevant Rule of her principal client, the AWU; (as clearly set out in the 1996 Affidavit of Ian Cambridge);
    (c) that it would be in contravention of the provisions of the Associations Incorporation Act and against the principles for which it was enacted;
    (d) that she would not be acting with utmost good faith towards the equity partners of S & G nor complying with her obligation for timely disclosure;
    (e) that along with her earlier actions, due to obvious conflict of interest, she was exposing them to possible substantial future litigation;
    (f) if she opened a file on the system for the AWUWRA, her unlawful behaviour would be exposed.

    5. She has, at all times since, failed in her duty as an officer, or former officer of the court, to notify the appropriate authorities of her knowledge of the alleged frauds of her former lover Bruce Wilson, as required by the appropriate legislated Act or Acts of Parliament.

    The choices Julia Gillard made between 1991 and 1995 were all deliberate and in full knowledge that she was in contravention of all the Rules, Regulations and obligations as listed above.

    There is no possible reason her culpability could be excused! The astonishing point is, that much of the information has been in the public domain for some 17 years, yet the coverup of Union corruption and her part in it has been so extensive, and has involved so many throughout the Union, political, legal, academic and MSM areas, she has been able to be manipulated into the highest office in the land!

    Future historians will shake their heads in bewilderment and disbelief, as most of us here are doing now!!

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    pat

    noticed a mention of the Daily Mail in the UK being rightwing & CAGW sceptic, but that is not so. just as Murdoch’s Sky is part of the CAGW advocating Aldersgate Group in the UK, so the Daily Mail can even upset Bob (no MSM must ever step out of line) Ward:

    16 June 2011: Guardian: Bob Ward: The Daily Mail owners buy climate change, so why doesn’t the paper?
    The Daily Mail and General Trust is reducing emissions while the paper continues to publish the views of climate sceptics
    (Bob Ward is policy and communications director of the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment at London School of Economics and Political Science)
    The owners of the Daily Mail take climate change very seriously.
    The latest annual report of the Daily Mail and General Trust (DMGT) boasts that the company has reduced its emissions of carbon dioxide by more than 13% since 2007, well ahead of its target of a 10% cut by 2012…
    Elsewhere, the DMGT website records that the company carried out a review in 2008 to identify “the key risks and opportunities for the group presented by future climate change”.
    This review was performed by one of DMGT’s subsidiaries, Risk Management Solutions (RMS), a company (for whom I worked between 2006 and 2008) with headquarters in California that builds computer models of risk for use by the insurance industry.
    RMS describes the review as “complementing the efforts being made to measure and reduce DMGT’s carbon footprint” and noted that it “consisted of a thorough assessment of climate change risks to DMGT and opportunities to create business value”…
    So why has nobody told the editorial staff at the Daily Mail?…
    It is puzzling that the Daily Mail is not more sceptical of the claims made by the director of the Global Warming Policy Foundation. He has a track record for making misleading claims through the media…
    Given this latest embarrassment, perhaps the editorial team at the Daily Mail should ask themselves why the newspaper’s parent company apparently doesn’t buy the claims of so-called climate change sceptics?…
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/16/daily-mail-climate-change?intcmp=122

    all the more reason to congratulate David Rose for having the guts to report what no other MSM has reported to date.

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    Andrew McRae

    I had a rather unpleasant experience yesterday. I received a visit from the government. But I have repeated myself there.

    The Australian Bureau of Statistics is again conducting a survey of 15000 households across the country. My address was “randomly” selected a few weeks ago. There are 7.6 million households in Australia. My address was therefore randomly selected with probability 0.2% .
    Yesterday some woman who seemed quite earnest turned up at my front door and wanted to know what time would suit me to conduct the interview. Unfortunately I was thinking the unthinkable.
    “What if there’s no time that suits me? What if I don’t want to do this interview?”, I asked.

    She replied quite politely but firmly, in what seemed a very well rehearsed sentence, that the ABS conducts these interviews under legislation and if the Chief Statistician determines that for accurate collection of statistics they require me to provide information then it is compulsory for me to answer any questions that are asked.

    At this point I was internally reeling, but soon decided there was probably no way for little old me to avoid this or fight this, so best to get it over as quickly as possible. If that sounds a bit like being mugged then you are receiving me loud and clear.

    The questions ask about annual income, total balance of your savings accounts, total balance of your superannuation accounts, employment over current and previous financial year, how many different types of government handouts you’re taking, and where your parents were born. The usual stuff.

    Then the ABS asks you about your electricity bill. How much you paid and how many kWh you used. Then, perhaps understandably, they ask if you have replaced a large whitegoods item with a higher Energy-Star rated version during the last two years.
    Okay, energy efficiency, that’s all good, but she admitted that most people tell her they wouldn’t throw out a refrigerator while it was still working properly.

    Then the ABS asks if you switch off devices, power packs, and transformers at the wall socket when the device itself is not actually being used.
    Well no, I leave a couple of transformers plugged in when their DC end is not being used.
    Then the ABS asks WHY have you NOT done these energy saving steps?
    Well even the interviewer confessed that the question sounds “rude” in her opinion.
    Rude. Uhuh. I guess she would describe the Spanish Inquisition as being “rude”!

    As she left I made the remark that it all seemed relatively painless. Stockholm syndrome kicks in so quickly, doesn’t it?

    But I could not let her abscond without at least one pointed question in her direction.
    “You said this survey was to help the government allocate resources. Why does the government even need to allocate resources?”

    The way I phrased it was ambiguous, which allowed her to reel off a few different government functions that would benefit, including comparisons with other countries. Of course that is not what I meant.

    If the survey really is about planning allocation of resources, why is my superannuation balance relevant?
    Since they asked me specifically about electricity consumption habits, is the government planning to allocate electrical power generation? (ie taking over electricity supply)
    If not, are they planning an advertising campaign to get people switching devices off at the wall? Seems a rather expensive and intrusive way of reaching a foregone conclusion. Switching things off at the wall will save energy, but it saves barely a few percent, and am I not already paying for what I waste anyway?
    Most pointedly of all, there SHOULD be a free market in just about everything in this country, so what resource does the government control that requires such an intrusive survey for planning its consumption?

    Perhaps relevant to my thesis is that during the last 3 weeks I was also “randomly” selected for Jury Duty. I have done it once before and don’t mind doing it, it is one of the most solemn duties of the citizen. Although this time they chose the one fortnight of this entire year where I have other more desirable plans that would prevent me from doing it, which makes me suspicious. Assuming 4 juries needed per day at the Supreme Court on 5 days a week, for two weeks, that is 480 people selected each fortnight from an adult population in Brisbane of perhaps…. 1 million??? I calculate I was selected “at random” with probability 0.048%.

    Chances of being selected for the ABS inquisition AND Jury duty in Brisbane in the same month? About 1 in a million.
    Merely unlucky? Well considering one is a State function of the Judiciary and the other is a theoretically unassociated federal department, you would have to conclude it is really just bad random luck.

    Tyranny visited my home yesterday, perhaps just to give me a taste of it, as a reminder and a warning.
    Here’s a recent article which proves I’m not the only one to feel that way about it.

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    • #
      Mark

      Ain’t it great to live in the People’s Democratic Republic of Oz, Andrew?

      30

      • #
        Angry

        It thought that it was now called the USSA (United Socialist States of Australia) thanks to the “red dog” gillard communist “government”.

        31

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        The USA’s efficacy on its own Constitutional rights and freedoms has been dropping at breathtaking pace since 2000, and based on present course will drop below Australia by the end of next year, because their 2nd Amendment will be outlawed. At that point Australia will be able to claim it is the one true land of the free and the home of the brave because there won’t be any better contender for the title.

        Yay. :(

        20

    • #
      Ian Hill

      I worked at the ABS for 19 years. I’ve gone on about this before, at last year’s census.

      One thing people might not realise is that for these monthly ABS labour force and associated surveys it’s your house which gets selected. If you move out then the new occupants get to do it for the remaining months. I once moved into a flat which had been selected and had to do it for the last two of the eight months.

      You can refuse and take your chances. My unit was once selected after I left the ABS and I told them what they could do with their SS Survey (don’t you love that term?). They didn’t dare follow me up on that!

      Don’t blame the interviewer. She’s only doing her job.

      Must say you are unlucky to cop jury duty at the same time. I’ve done it once and agree it gives you quite a sense of “doing your bit for the community”.

      20

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      John Brookes

      I’ve never been asked to do jury duty.

      02

  • #
    Simon O

    Hi Everyone,

    Got this from a CG newsletter I’m subscribed too (?) thought I’d pass it along for critique:

    http://climatemodelling.eventbrite.com/

    Recent progress in modelling past greenhouse climates and implications for
    the futureANU College of Medicine, Biology & Environment and the ANU
    College of Physical and Mathematical
    Sciences.Monday,
    October 15, 2012 from 6:00 PM to 7:00 PM (EST)
    Canberra, Australian Capital Territory

    One of the main criticisms of model-derived predictions of future climate
    change is that these climate models have not been validated by comparing
    them with past, natural climate change. Nothing could be further from the
    truth. For over thirty years, the same kinds of models that are used for
    predicting future climate change have been applied to studying past climate
    changes and their predictions as compared with the geological archives.
    >From these geological archives we can derive qualitative and quantitative
    estimates of past climates, including their temperatures and rainfall
    amounts, and compare them with output from climate models. One consistent
    theme that has emerged from these comparisons is that models produce the
    right direction of change, i.e. a much cooler world during the Last Glacial
    Maximum and a much warmer world during the Eocene and Cretaceous
    ‘greenhouse climates’, but that the models tend to underestimate the
    climate extremes of these intervals. The fact that models tend to
    underpredict past climate changes implies that they are not sensitive
    enough to the different boundary conditions of those past worlds, which has
    interesting implications for our projections of the future.

    In this talk Professor Matther Huber will discuss these issues and present
    some recent progress in paleoclimate modelling in which he shows that
    inclusion of a more complete representation of cloud and aerosol physics
    within climate models substantially improves the model’s representation of
    the past. He also uses these improved models to make inferences about the
    future.

    *Professor Matthew Huber*

    Earth & Atmospheric Sciences

    Purdue University, USA

    Professor Huber is visiting Australia as a Distinguished Lecturer supported
    by the Australian and New Zealand IODP Consortium, and has been heavily
    involved in the forefront of research linking geoscience information on
    past climates with climate modeling for both the past and the future. His
    presentation should be of great interest to those interested in Earth and
    Climate Science.

    Research Interests

    Past, present and future climate, mechanisms that govern climate, and the
    different forms that climates can take on Earth and other planets.

    Education

    Ph.D., University of California Santa Cruz (Earth Sciences), 2001

    M.S.,University of California Los Angeles (Atmospheric Sciences), 1997

    B.A., University of Chicago (Geophysics Honors), 1994

    *Publications*
    Matt Huber has published widely since he was working on his PhD, in
    highly-ranked journals. Since 2000 he has published 61 papers covering a
    broad range of issues, and making good use of his training in both Earth
    and Atmospheric Sciences. Among the co-authored papers are five in *Nature*.
    __________________________________________
    (Snipped the e-mails) CTS

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    Angry

    I would like to inform people that there is a petition about “Protect Australian Farming Industries from Imported Produce” on

    http://www.gopetition.com.au/petitions/protect-australian-farming-industries-from-imported-pro.html

    Australians want to eat clean, locally produced produce and not filthy imported rubbish which destroys local jobs and our economy.

    All this so called “free trade” BS originated from the anti human and anti Australian united nations and must be stopped !!

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    • #
      AndyG55

      I agree completely.. !! I don’t mind us importing specialist foods, but the main bulk of all foods we consume here should be grown here, if possible.

      Importing orange juice concentrate, for example.. triple doh… should NOT be permitted. !!!

      Time to junk the UN agenda and start protecting out primary industry from overseas dumping.

      What are we going to import next.. kangaroo meat ???

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  • #
    Angry

    This is relevant for New South Wales residents as is of vital importance.

    There is a web site to make your feeling heard on the New South Wales Government and their eco nutjob plan of a “renewable energy target” RET.

    FFS This, as well as the PLANT FOOD TAX is why electricity is fast turning into a luxury that people are unable to afford !

    Here is the web site…..

    http://haveyoursay.nsw.gov.au/renewableenergy

    You need to first register and then they email you.

    Tell these eco communists what you think of their BS Renewable Energy plan/target !!

    NOTHING BUT FAIRY DUST !

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    • #
      memoryvault

      A NSW Renewable Energy Action Plan is being developed to support the achievement of the national target of 20% renewable energy by 2020.

      Ah, would that be the RET Plan of the current NSW LIBERAL government to achieve the RET national target of the future Federal LIBERAL government?

      The SAME RET that a delegation of Liberal MP’s recently told Abbott was a “rotting Albatross around their necks out in their electorates” to which he replied that the RET was “not negotiable”?

      Good luck with the protest Angry.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        Is there Liberal who understands that WE WANT A CHOICE..

        if so.. he should be the next PM, the leader of the Libs.

        F*** Abbott.. and Turnbull..and all of them…… if they want to go down the RET path.

        WAKE UP, Liberals….. give us a choice !!!

        30

        • #
          memoryvault

          .
          Dr Dennis Jensen – the only actual scientist in Parliament.

          20

          • #
            Juliar

            Jensen still supports the Direct Action Plan – using soil carbons and planting trees to do something that we have no idea about.

            10

          • #
            Andrew McRae

            When the ETS was doing its first rounds in the Senate I made sure to email the Senators for Qld about it, and seem to recall one of them having a BSc from long ago. John Hogg was the fellow.

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      • #
        Juliar

        A large portion of the Libs don’t want the RET Andy and MV but they are too scared of the political ramifications and the campaigns groups like GetUp! would start. One step at a time.

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        • #
          memoryvault

          they are too scared of the political ramifications and the campaigns groups like GetUp! would start. One step at a time.

          Let’s divide that up Juliar.

          they are too scared of the political ramifications

          No. They know the “political ramifications”. It’s COSTING them votes.
          Hence the “rotting Albatross” analogy.

          the campaigns groups like GetUp! would start

          And the GetUp rent-a-crowd and those who follow them are how likely to vote conservative?

          One step at a time.

          Abbott has absolutely vetoed any changes to the RET under any government he leads.
          So what’s the next step?

          20

          • #
            Juliar

            Whether you like it or not, Parties win government by winning over the swing voter, largely positioned in the centre of the politcal spectrum. A large majority of that centre-swing voter are alarmists therefore if they do say it is crap, then the ramifications electorally are bad for the Libs. It is similar to WorkChoices. I am very much for Industrial relations policy to go back to how it was pre-2007 election and so do many Liberal voters but the swing voters do not want that. Even if they do not go back to Workchoices, the Liberal supporters will still vote Liberal and they will get the swinging voters as well.

            On GetUP!, you would be surprised how much a lobby group can persuade the general public to think a certain way or be scared about a certain issue. They can persuade non-members of the group to think a certain way. When you see big campaigns by unions or lobby groups, often the sheer number of people supporiting a cause or protesting plants the thought that the people who don’t support this are stupid, therefore choose to support it in order to hold the popular, consensual view.

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          • #
            Mark

            When you see big campaigns by unions or lobby groups, often the sheer number of people supporiting a cause or protesting plants the thought that the people who don’t support this are stupid, therefore choose to support it in order to hold the popular, consensual view

            .

            Hmmm… dunno about that, Juliar.

            My recollection goes back to 1975 when the unions and their hangers-on staged massive rallies in support of Gough Whitlam.

            We know how that ended.

            20

  • #
    John

    I have noted that so far nobody has posted the press release from the Met Office in the UK. The Daily Mail online tells all.

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  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    I have been fascinated by the hockey teams reliance on peer reviewed papers. If you want to debate with them, then you have to have published, and to get published, it has to go through peer review, where it gets buried.

    But it hasn’t always been so.

    If I remember correctly, there was a time, not too long ago, when a scientist could produce a paper, describing a theory, or some experiments, get it printed, and then circulate it to everybody else working in the same or related fields, for review and comment.

    Now it seems that to be recognized, you must publish, not only in a scientific journal, but in the anointed scientific journal for your discipline. This obviously opens the way for a select group of scientists to dominate the peer review process, and gives them the means to censor any research or findings that they do not like. This can only encourage group-think, and inhibit scientific thinking that goes in directions not palatable to those who see themselves at the top of the discipline. We saw evidence of that in the Climategate emails.

    Would those among us who are practicing scientists be prepared to comment and give their opinion on this?

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    • #
      memoryvault

      .
      PIER REVIEW

      There seems to be no study too fragmented, no hypothesis too trivial, no literature too biased or too egotistical, no design too warped, no methodology too bungled, no presentation of results too inaccurate, too obscure, and too contradictory, no analysis too self-serving, no argument too circular, no conclusions too trifling or too unjustified, and no grammar and syntax too offensive for a paper to end up in print.

      Drummond Rennie, deputy editor of Journal of the American Medical Association

      The mistake, of course, is to have thought that peer review was any more than a crude means of discovering the acceptability—not the validity—of a new finding. Editors and scientists alike insist on the pivotal importance of peer review. We portray peer review to the public as a quasi-sacred process that helps to make science our most objective truth teller. But we know that the system of peer review is biased, unjust, unaccountable, incomplete, easily fixed, often insulting, usually ignorant, occasionally foolish, and frequently wrong.

      Richard Horton, editor of the British medical journal The Lancet.

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    • #
      memoryvault

      .
      Pier review as it is practised today only came into vogue post WWII.

      That is why Climastrologists have no problems ignoring any “unfounded” scientific claims made before that date.

      You know, things like the Four Laws of Thermodynamics, the Noble Gas Laws, Einstein’s Theory of Relativity, the Law of Cause and Effect, and so on.

      70

      • #
        AndyG55

        MV…. a couple of dozen thumbs up for that, if I could. :-)

        10

      • #
        Mark

        I thought I read somewhere that all peer review meant was that a paper:-
        (1). Was likely to be of interest in the relevant field.
        (2). Was not plagiarised.
        (3). Did not have any obvious errors.

        Only in climate “science” has it been elevated to a similar status as that of Moses descending from the mount with God’s truth engraved into stone.

        10

        • #
          Anton

          Steady on Mark, (1) + (2) + (3) is pretty useful information about a piece of research. Skeptics of CAGW regularly criticise the IPCC for its having quoted non-peer-reviewed material.

          The problem in climate science is not peer review. The problem is large-scale distortion of the scientific process – by, for instance, grants being more readily available for work that claims CAGW than not. So guess which we see more of?

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          • #
            Mark

            Well, yes, but it’s a rather minimum standard isn’t it.

            Given that minimal standard, one shudders to think of the quality of IPCC ‘grey’ material that hasn’t been peer reviewed.

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  • #
    Dave

    .
    What really annoys me is the list of native Australian trees below that you cannot purchase in reliable quantities from Australian plantations.

    1. Alpine Ash (Eucalyptus delegatensis), grown in plantations in New Zealand
    2. Blackbean (Castanospermum australe), is grown in plantations in the US
    3. Blackbutt (Eucalyptus pilularis), grown in plantations in New Zealand
    4. Blackwood (Acacia melanoxylon), is grown in plantations in New Zealand
    5. Brown Barrel (Eucalyptus fastigata), is grown in plantations in New Zealand
    6. Brushbox (Tristania conferta), is grown in plantations in Hawaii
    7. Casuarina (mainly Casuarina equisetifolia), China has 1,000,000 hectares.
    8. Cypress Pine (Callitris columellaris) cultivated in plantations in South Africa
    9. Flooded Gum (Eucalyptus grandis), grown in Brazil, South Africa and Malaysia
    10.Hoop Pine (Araucaria cunninghamii), is grown in plantations in South Africa and Indonesia
    11.Karri (Eucalyptus diversicolor) is being sold worldwide by South African plantations
    12.Lemon Scented Gum (Eucalyptus citriodora), grown in Fiji, South Africa and India
    13.Messmate (Eucalyptus obliqua), is grown in plantations in New Zealand
    14.Mountain Ash (Eucalyptus regnans), is grown in plantations in New Zealand.
    15.WA Gum(Eucalyptus Occidentalis) grown extensively in Israel
    16.Red Cedar (Toona australis) is grown in plantations in Hawaii
    17.River Red Gum (Eucalyptus camaldulensis) grown in Egypt, South Africa, Spain, Israel
    18.River Sheoak (Casuarina cunninghamiana) grown in plantations in Egypt
    19.Satinay (Syncarpia hillii) or Fraser Is. Turpentine, is grown in plantations in the USA
    20.Shining Gum (Eucalyptus nitens), is a large hardwood, grown in plantations in New Zealand
    21.Silvertop Ash (Eucalyptus sieberi), grown in plantations in New Zealand.
    22.Southern Mahogany (Eucalyptus botrioides) grown in plantations in New Zealand
    23.Southern Blue Gum (Eucalyptus globulus) grown in California, Spain and Portugal and Ecuador
    24.Southern Silky Oak (Grevillea robusta) is grown in plantations in South Africa
    25.Sydney Blue Gum (Eucalyptus saligna) grown in South Africa, Hawaii and New Zealand
    26.Turpentine (Syncarpia glomulifera), is grown in plantations in Hawaii and South Africa
    27.White Ash (Eucalyptus fraxinoides) grown in plantations in New Zealand
    28.White Cedar (Melia azedarach) is being trialled in Egypt in small plantations
    29.Yellow Stringybark (Eucalyptus muellerana), is grown in plantations in New Zealand

    Yes, we import large quantities of Aussie tree timber like the Eucalypt, wattle, grevilleas etc from all over the world – yet only a few of these are being trialed in plantations in Australia.

    Israel, New Zealand and Hawaii are only small land areas – but beat us hands down in timber plantation capabilities.

    The drive from Brisbane to Sunshine Coast is nearly all pine trees used for pulp or garden log manufacture. Walk in one of these toxic forests and all othe animal and plant life is absent. Plus they take nearly 25 years before harvest – a Eucalyptus plantation would be less.

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  • #
    pat

    Andrew McRae -

    our free, local murdoch newspaper last week carried this pretty much verbatim:

    7 Sept: Qld Shelter: Sector news: Logan City Council seeks energy efficiency partners
    The Logan City Council’s sustainability program is developing a proposal to receive funding through the Low Income Energy Efficiency Program (LIEEP) to engage with low-income families and implement a strategy to assist them to overcome barriers to energy efficiency in the home.
    If successful, volunteers will have a new type of electricity meter installed in their home, which records data on electricity use on separate household electricity circuits making it easier to identify where their electricity use is greatest. This information will be complemented by sessions on how to use the meter to better identify potential energy savings, and provide residents with steps they can take to reduce their energy costs. Due to the need to install the meters in the homes low-income participants will need to own their own home, or rent from a willing community housing providers or private lessor.
    Logan City Council is currently in the early stages of planning and is looking for partners who can help identify and engage with low-income households throughout the project.
    If interested you can contact Matt Scougall, Environmental Officer, Environment and Sustainability Branch, Logan City Council , 07 3412 5215 or via email care of mattscougall@logan.qld.gov.au
    http://www.qshelter.asn.au/simplenews/2012/sep/ebulletin-friday-september-7-2012-0

    minutes from two Logan Council meetings in 2011mention a company called Auzion, in one case from August:

    “Auzion are in the process of beginning manufacturing of the multi-circuit, energy meters. Installation of the first hand-built meter for Logan City Council will happen on August 15th. An additional 2-5 meters will be installed once commercial production starts.”

    in another from September:

    “All three trial Auzion multi-circuit energy meters are now installed at Council houses, with E&S and residents already supplied with cloud log-ins. IE 9 is required for log-in and this is being investigated. Two additional meters will be
    donated by Auzion in the coming months.”

    will post the finale to this little saga in a new comment.

    00

  • #
    pat

    my concern is Auzion or similar will be supplying Smart Meters to unsuspecting &, in some cases, ill-equipped low-income families, under the guise of concern, and if it’s Sunshine Coast business, Auzion, i don’t like what i read:

    25 May 2012: Qld Govt: Dept of Environment & Heritage Protection
    Transcript for Mark Leckenby,(Auzion) Redland Sustainability Forum
    So, I started this concept with one of these energy meters. I brought my daughter into it and she’s not particularly technical. I thought if she can go around the house and do this we can probably train a lot of people to do it. Ally went around and she pulled all that data into the system. Through affiliations with a couple of universities—University of Sunshine Coast and Griffith University—we developed a prototype system and we started to collect some data.
    The easiest way to explain how this work is it’s the next step up on say, the ClimateSmart, which is a meter that you put on the electricity board with a little LCD display. I’m sure most of you are familiar with that type of technology. Three years later with a lot of money going into it, we’ve ended up with a commercial system. We call it the Energy Maximiser, AuziMAX for short. It’s basically that little blue box there that sits on your power board monitoring across the circuit breakers.
    Most of your large consuming appliances—air conditioners, hot water systems, pool pumps, power circuits, stoves—can all be captured at that point. We started to look at the educational side of things as well, engaging communities. We’ve actually built a platform that we believe can be used to really partner across the community. It’s fantastic to hear the first presentation this morning as I see a great integration here with these types of platforms, right down to the appliance level. That’s what we’re working on in the next stage.
    The way it works is we’ve built dashboards in a multitude of technologies; web based and iPhone based. So, the information coming back from how your house is performing can be very simply monitored and looked at and even diagnosed down to the individual appliance level. How does it work? It logs data back to a cloud server and that information is collected. Groups like councils and larger bodies where you way have multiple sites, you can look at a collective analysis on your whole business…
    Pretty much on day one of that installation we discovered something that we didn’t know and that was that the air conditioners were running at night, it’s interesting. This sort of little information, unless you’re monitoring it you may not realise why your power bill is so high. For the cost of a small device, this has paid itself off literally in a couple of months. We’re able to work out what was going on there. Through the system you can configure alerts. So, what I setup when we discovered this, I went in to set an alert on that air conditioner.
    When it reached a certain level it would automatically email the building manager. At the time I was fairly busy and I couldn’t track him down, so I just left it at that. He starts getting emails every day. I had actually forgotten that I had set that up until a month later and when I check it that was the result there. The energy usage at night was back to where it should have been and literally that device paid itself off within three months.
    This is another example of a restaurant at Noosa, Bistro C. When we started monitoring this particular restaurant the manager was very excited about this data and what he could potentially do with it. What he discovered was his refrigeration was not cycling at all. You can diagnose this system down to minute level data. Pretty much all his refrigeration was just 24/7 flat; it wasn’t cycling as it should. After looking at that problem what he’s discovered is all his heat exchanging equipments down at the car park—with a bunch of other businesses—the air can’t escape and obviously the whole thing’s just not running efficiently. Now, we’re working on some heat extraction fans in the car park and once that’s done we’ll come back and have another look at the energy data.
    The system can also be used to control. We’re actually trialing this at the moment with Energex in Capalaba. The way it works is they’re using it in a peak demand fashion connected to a new type of interface. ***Anyone that’s in the appliance industry may be familiar with this new interface called Demand Rationalisation. Some new air conditioners are being fitted with this now.
    It allows you to opt in to a new target control signal, whereby during the peak demand periods, say between four and eight o’clock, you can allow the energy retailer to manage your air conditioning systems. The way this works is you’re not supposed to feel any comfort change, but the signal will tell your air conditioner to wind down to 50 percent or maybe 25 percent of its duty cycle. So, the idea is not to make you uncomfortable. The whole thing should be unnoticed. Maybe on a very hot day you could feel something happening.
    ***But, that’s an exciting thing. Energex have seen this device as a potential way forward to help manage peak demand. The other thing we’re doing is we can map zones where the energy is being used, all sorts of reporting formats. We are trying to integrate our reporting into ecoBiz. I was just talking to a gentleman before about that and hopefully the ecoBiz project will continue under the new leadership and we can integrate that.
    Budgets can be set, for example, if you start using more than preset value per day the system can send you a text message, maybe at the end of the week. Peak demand management as I’ve said, aggregating data sets so that you can look collective over your set of buildings. And we’ve had some very good feedback from our pilot projects and our partners to date. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak and if anyone’s interested we’ve got a small display over the back here. Thank you.
    http://www.ehp.qld.gov.au/ecobiz/network/previous-forums/transcripts/2012-04-sustainability/mark-leckenby.html

    anyway, Andrew, am wondering if this is happening elsewhere in Australia and if your visitor from ABS was fishing for info which could be used for the introduction of Smart Meters.

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    • #
      Angry

      These so called “smart meters” are devices that nobody should allow to be installed on their property if they value their freedom of choice about when they use their electricity and what devices they use.

      This entire promotion of them is being orchestrated from the anti human united nations.

      Enough said !

      Have a read of these articles and then you decide……….

      Smart Meter only to a green

      http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/smart_meter_only_to_a_green/

      Smart Meter Surveillance..1984 is here right now

      http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2011/07/15/smart-meter-surveillance-1984-is-here-right-now/

      Climate Research News » ‘Big Green Brother’ Wants ‘Smart Meters’ in Our Homes

      http://climateresearchnews.com/2009/05/big-green-brother-wants-smart-meters-in-our-homes/

      STOP SMART METERS – I understand that Contract law requires CONSENT | Stop Smart Meters Australia

      http://stopsmartmeters.com.au/how-to-defer-your-smart-meter-installation/i-understand-that-contract-law-requires-consent/

      AUSTRALIAN VOTERS DEMAND THAT THEY BE GIVEN A CHOICE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT THEIR GOVERNMENTS TO WASTE THEIR HARD EARNED FUNDS ON “fairy dust” RUBBISH SUCH AS WIND AND SOLAR INSTEAD OF TRIED AND TESTED COAL FIRED ELECTRICITY GENERATION.

      If this is denied them then there will be “hell to pay” when the majority of Australians cannot afford to pay for electricity !

      AUSTRALIANS ARE ANGRY !!!!!!!!

      01

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      pat, are you Pat Michaels from Heartland?
      Actually it doesn’t matter.

      Whoever you are, thank you.
      This is really bad news, and the sooner we wise up to this the better.
      This is red alert material.

      I had no idea the events occurring in America were being so closely mirrored by events in Australia. The rollout of the Smart Meter deception is getting disturbingly close.

      I see a great integration here with these types of platforms, right down to the appliance level. That’s what we’re working on in the next stage.
      [...]
      The system can also be used to control. We’re actually trialing this at the moment with Energex … The way it works is they’re using it in a peak demand fashion connected to a new type of interface. Anyone that’s in the appliance industry may be familiar with this new interface called Demand Rationalisation. Some new air conditioners are being fitted with this now.
      [..]
      The whole thing should be unnoticed. Maybe on a very hot day you could feel something happening.

      Here is what will happen.
      On the hottest day of the year, in a freak heatwave, along with everyone else in the city thousands of elderly people will turn on their air-conditioners and due to the peak demand the grid will reject their request, and so at the moment they need the air-conditioner the most it will be denied to them. Thousands of very young and very old will die from heatstroke, and the nightly news report will tell us the heat wave was entirely to blame. The ABC might even add that it was all due to Global Warming caused by Deniers. But not even the warmists’ families will be spared from the culling, which shows you can’t cut a deal with tyranny.
      And the crypto-leftist crony-capitalist globalist bankster control freaks will scratch a few headcount off their population total and grin at a job well done.

      And if you don’t believe that, just look at it from a systems engineering viewpoint.

      There is only one purpose to gathering information from sensors, and that is to make a decision as to what your actuators are going to do. The Smart Meters are the sensors and every appliance will have a load shedding actuator built into it, and according to the above it is already being done. And if you get right down to it, the Smart Meter is the device that can – if so directed – cut off your whole house from the grid, via the Internet, from anywhere in the world.
      The tyranny enabled by Smart Meters should be obvious to all.

      00

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    pat

    just scrolled back to see who i’m responding to re the 2nd Amendment in the US, and it’s u again, Andrew:

    13 Oct: Courier Mail: Greg Stolz: Queensland Government to declare gun amnesty as police grapple with gun violence
    A GUN amnesty is set to be declared by the Newman Government in a desperate bid to stem a flood of illegal firearms into Queensland suburbs.
    The Government is poised to introduce the first weapons amnesty in almost a decade as police grapple with a wave of gun violence including last week’s shock murder-suicide in Brisbane’s upmarket Clayfield.
    Senior police say thousands of illegal firearms are circulating in the suburbs, many of them stolen from farmers and other legitimate gun owners while others are being smuggled in from interstate and overseas…
    A spokesman for Police Minister Jack Dempsey confirmed the amnesty was planned for early next year, before tough new gun laws were introduced.
    The proposed laws, with mandatory jail terms of up to five years for illegal gun supply and possession, will go before state Cabinet later this month.
    “Prior to introducing the new penalties, the Government will hold an amnesty period to allow people in possession of illegal or unlicensed weapons to surrender them,” the spokesman told The Courier-Mail…
    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland-government-to-declare-gun-amnesty-as-police-grapple-with-wave-of-gun-violence/story-e6freon6-1226494729396

    YET:

    30 Nov 2011: Queensland Police Service Annual Statistical Review
    Key outcomes for 2010/11 include:
    All of the six categories in offences against the person recorded DECREASES:
    homicide (murder) 11%, other homicide 33%, assault 6%, sexual offences 9%, robbery 3% and other offences against the person 4%..
    http://www.westerninformer.com/?p=3226

    check the low and decreasing murder rate and other decreasing crimes on page 1 of the annual review:

    2010-11 Annual Statistical Review by the Queensland Police Service
    http://www.police.qld.gov.au/Resources/Internet/services/reportsPublications/statisticalReview/1011/documents/StatReview2010_11.pdf

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    Roy Hogue

    I found this video by accident today. Just for fun I’m going to bet that most of you can answer more of these questions correctly than the Obama voters they interviewed on Election Day, 2008.

    Any takers? :-)

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      Roy Hogue

      PS: We trust these people to vote. But they shouldn’t be trusted to tie their own shoes, much less something more demanding.

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    Anton

    Even the UK Met Office now says (very quietly…) that it hasn’t got warmer in the last 15 years:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released–chart-prove-it.html

    Yet CO2 has continued to rise in that time as China and India industrialise, and the effect of CO2 is instantaneous. When the Met Office states this then it is pretty decisive in view of how partisan they are, as inferred from the relative publicity they have given to this and to (earlier) warnings of thermal nightmare. They are not mentioning any mitigating effects specific to the last 15 years, which they surely would if they knew of any.

    Green subsidies, carbon taxes, etc…

    I WANT MY MONEY BACK!

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    Jaymez

    I particularly liked:

    The figures, which have triggered debate among climate scientists, reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012, there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures.
    This means that the ‘plateau’ or ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996. Before that, temperatures had been stable or declining for about 40 years.

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    Jaymez

    Even Journalists Think the Media is Biased in Australia

    I have often commented about media bias on particular subjects or specifically about the left-wing media bias at the ABC. However I am sure that those who have a mainly ‘left wing’ disposition think that the ABC presents a fairly balanced position on everything and that it must be my own perception which is biased. Others of course will not know enough about any particular subject to enable them to make a judgement and may just assume that I am making baseless accusations.

    So it may interest readers to know that there is plenty of empirical evidence to support my accusations that main stream media in general has a slightly left wing bias and that the ABC in particular has a left wing bias.

    Media Monitoring Unit looks at ABC Bias
    In 1998, the Institute of Public Affairs established a Media Monitoring Unit to critically examine TV News coverage of that year’s federal election campaign. It was the first study of its kind to scientifically and objectively measure the lack of balance often apparent in political News coverage on TV News.

    The major findings of this first study was that metropolitan TV news coverage of the election focused more on the Coalition government than on Labor and, in most cases, was more critical of the Coalition’s policies. ABC News was the most pro-Laborof the four news services.

    The Unit went on to do another successful study on the ABC’s reporting of the MUA/Patrick’s nationwide waterfront dispute with similar findings. Read further here: http://oldfraser.lexi.net/publications/forum/1998/december/down_under.html and here: http://www.ipa.org.au/library/IPABackgrounder11-1.pdf

    Peer Reviewed Studies Prove Bias
    Also in that year there were two groundbreaking studies published by Professor John Henningham of Queensland University: ‘Journalists’ perception of bias’, and ‘Ideological differences between Australian journalists and their public’. See here: http://espace.library.uq.edu.au/eserv.php?pid=UQ:10751&dsID=jh_ajr_17_2-95.pdf and here: http://www.cios.org/EJCPUBLIC/003/3/00337.HTML

    Journalists’ perception of bias
    In this study Henningham surveyed Australian journalists to ascertain their own impressions of the
    spectrum of Australian media outlets from ‘left-wing’ to ‘right-wing’.

    What is striking about this study is that the journalists themselves rated the ABC as
    pro-Labor, indeed as the most pro-Labor of the major media outlets.

    The 7.30 Report, followed by ABC News, 4 Corners, SBS News and The Age newspaper were
    considered the most ‘left leaning’. Of course we didn’t have Q&A, the Drum, Capital Hill or The Insiders back then otherwise I am sure they would have been added to the list.

    The Adelaide Advertiser, the West Australian and The Northern Territory News were considered the most ‘right-leaning’. Journalists scored the then Telegraph- Mirror and Sydney Morning Herald as just right and the Financial Review, The Australian and Melbourne Herald Sun as ‘slightly to the right of centre’.

    You can read the entire report but there is absolutely no doubt that the journalists themselves
    believe main stream media has a slight overall bias to the left, but that the ABC is overwhelmingly
    biased towards the left (Labor).

    Ideological differences between Australian journalists and their public
    In the second study Henningham measured the ideological gap between Australian journalists
    and the public they served. Not surprisingly there was an enormous difference with journalists
    consistently having more left wing views than the general public. So even though the journalists
    already thought there was a general media bias to the left, from the general public’s perception,
    that bias was far greater. For instance this placed The Australian, which journalists had ranked
    as just right of centre, to well to the left of mainstream Australian opinion. What this proves is
    that journalists themselves are probably not very good at acknowledging their own bias. That is,
    if they write a story and they interview a spokesperson with which they agree, they will tend
    not to ask the hard questions. If they interview a spokesperson with which they disagree, they
    will have a list of difficult questions for them. Or they may simply not seek out someone with a
    view they do not agree with.

    Political Journalists are 4 Times More Likely to Vote Labor or Greens than Coalition
    Ideological leaning was tapped using Johnstone et al.’s closed question, which allows for five possible responses. While 41 percent of journalists describe their “general political leaning” as middle of the road; most of the remainder are more likely to lean to the left than to the right. Of the total, 3.8 percent said they were “pretty far to the left”, 35 percent a “little to the left”, 1.8 percent “pretty far to the right” and 14.2 percent a “little to the right”. Journalists specialising in politics are much more likely to lean to the left than the right: 48 percent to 11 percent. This means that a political journalist is more than 4 times more likely to vote Labor or Greens than to vote for the Coalition!

    Some Journalists Like to Appear Neutral
    Rather than make their bias obvious, some journalists and presenters simply seek to interview subjects who will give the answers or opinions they want so they can convey their view without appearing to give their own opinions. You only have to look at the panellists’ selections for the ABC’s Q&A, The Insiders or The Drum, or Fran Kelly’s ABC Radio National Breakfast to get the idea. Q&A will generally have three left wing panellists to two right wing-centre panellists. But taking into account host Tony Jones obvious left leanings, the balance is always in favour of the left. The Insiders used to have the token conservative Andrew Bolt on until he got his own show on Channel Ten. Glen Milne appeared until he wrote the piece about Julia Gillard’s activities with her married boyfriend when she was a ‘young and naive’ 32 year old partner in a law firm. So Gerard Henderson is the only occasional right wing conservative who gets a look in at Insiders which along with the shows host, ex Labor candidate Barrie Cassidy, there are usually 2 or 3 left wing journalists, often from the ABC for good measure. The Drum is most often hosted by another failed ex Labor Candidate Stephen Cannane, but the job is rotated among other ABC journalists and will always consist of two left wing panellists to one token conservative. Fran Kelly just loves chatting to people she agrees with and who agree with her!

    What should be done about Media Bias?
    Maybe I am being unfair, maybe the selection of left wing panellists and interviewees journalists agree with is not a conscious thing. If as the studies above have shown, journalists are terrible at recognising their own bias, but can see it in others, then maybe they just don’t realise they are doing it.

    I actually don’t care about media bias in privately owned publications, TV and radio stations. They have to answer to their shareholders, not to me. If a publication like Crikey want to write mainly Left wing material, then provided they aren’t attracting Government funding I don’t care. There are laws against defamation, vilification and against being deliberately inaccurate, but I support free speech and the right for other people to have opinions I disagree with or which are ideologically biased, provided I’m not paying for it! ‘The market’ seems to be sorting out the Fairfax media organisation which has been the hotbed of leftwing journalism for the past few decades. While that bias has persisted, their circulation has crumbled.

    I do care when organisations like GetUp! which have been the recipient of government grants as well as union donations (which members have had no say in), print clearly bias and inaccurate material.

    But I care even more when the totally tax payer funded ABC and SBS to the tune of $1.25 Billion per year is clearly a left wing bias organisation, not just in my opinion, but in the opinion of Australian journalists and as empirically measured by a number of academic studies. The ABC Charter requires balanced reporting of news and current affairs and instead it seems to be both a nursery and a retirement home for left wing politicians and their supporters. This cannot continue. Firstly the ABC should be defunded in all the areas where their activities duplicate products which are already delivered to the market place without Government involvement including online blog sites, current affairs talk shows which involve journalists and minor celebrities, and the huge range of international journalists the ABC and SBS have all over the world when there are so many international news agencies. Secondly, there needs to be an independent non-government complaints panel assessing balance and bias at the ABC and SBS made up of Industry appointed – not Government or ABC appointed people. ABC Media Watch is hardly the Gold Standard of balanced reporting!

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    Selectivity (Cherry-picking) is required to manipulate observations successfully into propaganda.

    1. Data that scatter, like data on air temperatures and sea levels, are ideal for government propaganda.

    2. Data showing tight correlations, like that of excess Xe-136 with primordial He in the Allende meteorite:

    _ http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1975Data.htm

    _ a.) Are overlooked [“Host Phase of a Strange Xenon Component in Allende,” Science 190 (26 Dec 1975) 1251-1262]

    _ b.) In reports not listed in the web Table of Contents for Science (26 December 1975) 190, No. 4221, but

    _ http://www.sciencemag.org/content/190/4221.toc

    _ c.) Still visible in the pdf print copy of Science (26 December 1975) 190, No. 4221:

    _ http://www.sciencemag.org/content/190/4221.toc.pdf

    .

    Here’s the sixty-four year (2009 – 1945 – 64 yr) road to Climategate: http://omanuel.wordpress.com/about/#comment-1369

    - Oliver K. Manuel

    “Oh what a tangled web we weave, . . .”

    For later coincidence to concede !

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    Hope for the current time of trouble

    The sixty-four year (2009 – 1945 – 64 yr) history of Climategate: http://omanuel.wordpress.com/about/#comment-1369

    1. First describes the selfish actions that led society to its current quagmire, and

    2. Then describes the scientific discoveries that cannot be defeated by selfishness

    We are headed for social and economic collapse, worldwide, but
    The outcome will simply confirm the oldest scriptures

    “Truth is victorious, never untruth”
    Mundaka Upanishad 3.1.6; Qur’an 17.85;
    Numerous verses of every other religion

    - Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo

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    The Guardian has a story ‘Climate change fiction melts away just when it’s needed’:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2012/oct/18/climate-change-fiction

    It doesn’t mean what it appears to mean – it means there aren’t enough fiction books about climate change. On the contrary, of course, most of them are fiction.

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