JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Greenpeace is coming: “We know where you live.”

UPDATE (My reply to Greenpeace comments, below.)

UPDATE 2 Greenpeace have responded to the outrage by removing the original page.

Watch out people. Greenpeace resorts to threats.

The moderator on-site is fighting a wall of disparaging, dismissive, and “dare you to” comments, but insists it’s all “non-violent”–really.

Judge for yourself:

“We need to hit them where it hurts most, by any means necessary: through the power of our votes, our taxes, our wallets, and more.”

“‘We must break the law to make the laws we need: laws that are supposed to protect society, and protect our future. Until our laws do that, screw being climate lobbyists. Screw being climate activists. It’s not working. We need an army of climate outlaws.’

The proper channels have failed. It’s time for mass civil disobedience to cut off the financial oxygen from denial and skepticism.

“If you’re one of those who believe that this is not just necessary but also possible, speak to us. Let’s talk about what that mass civil disobedience is going to look like.

“If you’re one of those who have spent their lives undermining progressive climate legislation, bankrolling junk science, fueling spurious debates around false solutions, and cattle-prodding democratically-elected governments into submission, then hear this:

“We know who you are. We know where you live. We know where you work.

“And we be many, but you be few.”

So the guys in green are turning up to my place, eh? I do hope they’ll come to chat about the empirical evidence for water-vapor feedback, but if this is supposed to be what non-violence looks like, I’m missing something. I can’t spot the line where it says, “We’re coming to your place to reason with you.”  I just see stuff about breaking laws, “any means necessary,” and “we know where you live”.

It’s hard to believe, but I was a Friend of the Rainbow Warrior once. I donated (we donated) money every month for years. But hey, we all grow up sometime, and then we move on. Some of the people in Greenpeace are good people, but they don’t have any idea what forces are pushing the agenda behind the world-wide “greening”. Many in Greenpeace are just bullies who want an authorized disguise to pour scorn on other people and pretend to be heroic. Greenpeace has become a magnet for thrill-seekers looking for an excuse to pump adrenalin; the sinkhole for those with an undirected tribal yearning; the “football club” for people who want to pretend that their team sport is not a game, but life-and-death, and, of course, morally superior.

Wake up, you’re all being played for fools by big bureaucrats and global banksters.

I enjoyed the comments thread.

Jack:

“Juliette, this is a very threatening post. You will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and litigated into the stone age. I have copied this blog and forwarded it to the appropriate officials.”

Steven Miller:

Is this now the way that Greenpeace now wins an argument? By ending an article with thinly cloaked threats of violence? This is the tactic of those who know they have lost. And how did Greenpeace lose? Greenpeace has lost by taking the easy out… by supporting those who have manipulated data and exaggerated their claims.

“Hide the decline”, “Himalayan glaciers melting by 2035″, “Polar Bears going extinct”, omitting weather reporting stations in the wilderness of Canada, China, and Siberia and dozens of other shocking manipulation of data and outlandish lies. These are not the actions of people interested in scientific truth. And now threats. Greenpeace, how low can you go? It is no wonder your organization is losing credibility with the public.

JM Dennis:

Congratulations. You just crossed the line into being a terrorist organization.

Willis Eschenbach

Hey, I’m one of those who spent my life undermining the “consensus”. We don’t see eye-to-eye on matters scientific. I wrote the first FOI to CRU requesting Phil Jones’ DATA, and guess what?

After lying to me repeatedly and illegally fobbing off my requests, he finally had to admit he’d lost the data … and you call that “science”? The only reason the police didn’t indict him is the statute of limitations had run out.

For Greenpeace publicly to threaten me and my family (“we know where you live”) because I don’t agree with your beliefs is despicable. You guys have lost the plot entirely when you take to threatening people with whom you disagree.

You do see the “peace” up in your name there? How about living up to it? Call off your dogs, they will only bite you in the end.

Aaron:

Come and get me, GreenVIOLENCE. Even your name is a lie, just like your global warming propaganda has been.

Feel free to come to Wyoming and find me, Gene from India. Bring friends. Make it a party.  You won’t last three seconds. Show me that the “peace” in Greenpeace is as false as the rest of the organization has proven to be.

Silly Face:

I agree completely. We should hunt them down and bombard them with malodorous pineapples. That will teach them to be sceptical. ‘Cause scepticism is evil. They’re all evil capitalist bastards. I AHTE THEM! KILL THEM ALL! THE BASTARDS!!1 BLARAHEGRHAEGRERERWER!!11


UPDATE: Some anonymous friend of GreenPeas dropped in to comment with the usual greenwash, and I replied and thought it was worth posting here.

Andrew:

Hi all,

Hope you don’t mind my passing through. It’s a busy day over on the Greenpeace weblog. Oh, but I guess you know that already. ;)

To be clear – Gene is just calling for the same peaceful civil disobedience that liberated his own country (India) from imperialism. And he is specific about what he thinks people should do (protest, boycott, that kind of thing).

Some people are taking this the wrong way, so I’ve added my own note to the blog post. There’s also a video of Gene, in case anyone wants to see what the guy who’s caused all this fuss looks like.

I’d love to stay and chat, but little busy. I’ve just brewed up a big pot of (organic) tea, and will be doing my best to talk to folks over on the Greenpeace blog. Feel free to stop by and post a comment or question.

– Andrew

Andrew,
thanks for popping by to repeat the moderation “official” Greenpeace line, but it doesn’t wash on the Greenpeace site, and it doesn’t wash here. When someone says it’s ok to break laws, and “we know where you live” there is no other interpretation. What the hell else would you use someone’s home address for–to drop in Greenpeace leaflets? To stand outside and sing whale songs? If you want to write me a letter distilling your wisdom and with the missing empirical evidence feel free, you might convince me with reason, but why snail-mail it? Just pop it up here, or on the Greenpeace site.

As long as you call us deniers we know you have no respect, not much knowledge, and are crippled with arrogance. Can I suggest you try treating us as people instead, or even, dare I suggest, scientists–which many of us are? Loading the article up with baseless lies about how much we are paid (we’re not) and suggesting we do this for the money is a deliberate attempt just to ignite the hate button among the greenpuce tribe.

Breaking laws is dangerous ground, and Greenpeace are fools for thinking they can suggest it, especially without being exactly explicitly descriptive about which laws, and in which manner.

There are nut-cases out there, and this kind of post from Greenpeace has two aims — one, hoping to intimidate skeptics into silence, and two, hoping to ignite a nutcase to DO something, then pretend that Greenpeace can hide behind it’s corporate mission statement, and deny all responsibility.

Greenpeace can’t get away with inciting terrorism. You can’t pretend that there were any lines in that article designed to reign in the eco-loonies, there were no conciliatory statements about skeptics being scientists who have a different opinion. GreenViolence is just as evil, noxious and nasty as fascist-violence. –JN

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Greenpeace is coming: "We know where you live.", 10.0 out of 10 based on 8 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/29ws33z

96 comments to Greenpeace is coming: “We know where you live.”

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    Grego99

    Greenpeace people – take a breather; count to ten or something; you’re losing your composure over nothing. All we (skeptics) have found is it cannot be asserted with anything close to scientific rigor that we are doomed by AGW. Consider that a minute when you get over your case of the vapors and consider what a piece of wonderfully good news it is. We are not (necessarily) doomed.

    Now have yourself a good cry or something and when you dry your eyes and blow your nose and calm down, get back to saving the baby seals and carping about oil spills. My advice for you in the future is to stay away from technical, engineering, and scientific discussions as they seem a bit out of your level and are causing you miserable frustration.


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    Richard S Courtney

    So what is new?

    It would have been news if eco-terrorists had said they were to stop their attacks on climate realists.

    Richard


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    Dagfinn

    This is actually more like a suicide bombing. Normal people will find it repulsive.


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    Atheist Ranter

    They’ve just turned fundamentalist like all these holier-than-thou self important organisations do, that are not allowed to change their minds when evidence (and I mean ‘evidence’ not political spin) shows them what is really happening.

    As Grego99 above says, do yourself a favour and go back to looking after whales, baby seals and oil spills – that’s reasonably worth doing.


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    [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Dagfinn Reiersøl N. Dagfinn Reiersøl N said: Greenpeace truer klimaskeptikerne: "We know where you live" http://bit.ly/9KYUXs [...]


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    Steve Schapel

    Greg099 (#1)…

    I am unable to agree with your comments.

    “All we (skeptics) have found is it cannot be asserted with anything close to scientific rigor that we are doomed by AGW.”

    To Greenpeace’s credit, as far as I know they have never seriously tried to pretend that they seek scientific rigour. And this is absolutely not “all skeptics have found”. Many skeptics realise that there are many very powerful political and financial interests who are fraudulently mis-representing science, as a means to further their political power objectives by inducing fear in the populace. Argue till you’re blue in the face about scientific rogour, and it will make not a jot of difference to the battle.

    “get back to saving the baby seals and carping about oil spills”

    I don’t know where you get this romantic idea about what Greenpeace is about, but it’s way off the mark. They are a vigorous, dangerous political machine, with big resources, and a history of frequently using illegal, violent tactics. This post establishes only that they have not changed their spots.


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    Otter

    This ‘juliette’ who is responding to many of the comments has the GALL to claim their posting only calls for ‘non-violent’ action. What a *self-edit*ing JackASS.

    Well, now that you’ve posted this, mayhaps jm, ad hoc, mattb and other small minds will see it, and go give them some ‘positive’ feedback :P


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    tide

    I noticed that the Juliette’s Greenpeace blog entry was posted on April 1. Was that her idea of an April Fool’s joke? Are we being taken for a ride?


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    Roy Hogue

    Jo,

    I’ve been waiting for this kind of thing to happen. It confirms my belief that we’re slowly winning the war on global warming. But I would not dismiss these people. There are more than enough nut cases out there to make some real violence possible.

    For myself I will defy them openly and stand against them. They can only thrive if we let them.


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    user07

    What surprised me, when reading the original article, was the number and ferocity of the ‘comments’ against. Not a good time to be fund raising for Greenpeace on the streets of America methinks.


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    janama

    Part 1 was posted by Juliette on March 31, 2010 8:41 AM, followed by Part 2 the next day, 1 April. It was written by Gene from Greenpeace India. When I came across it on March 2, there were no replies; now there are four replies to Part 1, and tirade of replies to Part 2. It appears someone mentioned it on WUWT, and that caused everyone’s interest/anger, and, hence, the sudden jump in replies. At the time, I found it interesting that Greenpeace’s readership was that low.

    I used to contribute to Greenpeace, but ceased in the mid ’90s when I discovered that the hippie people on the street to whom I was contributing kept half the money! and Greenpeace approved of that.


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    pat

    bbc newsnight is a farce. note the generic ‘global warming’ at the top of mason’s newsnight blog re his program last night:

    BBC: Paul Mason, Newsnight’s economics editor: What’s wrong with Britain?
    Post categories: Economic policy, Global Warming, Social cohesion, Technology
    It is clear to me there are two big things happening in the world:A tech revolution that started with the internet, but has now spread to everything from materials science to medicine to robotics; and a green revolution, that started with carbon reduction and is now changing the way people run businesses and live their lives.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/paulmason/2010/03/whats_wrong_with_britain_part.html

    in the prog, mason interviews this guy:

    TYF: Andy Middleton
    Andy works internationally with organisations that include the Welsh Assembly Government, the China Executive Leadership Academy in Shanghai, American Express, the Sustainable Development Commission, Sustain Wales and Rathbones Greenbank…
    http://www.littlebigvoice.org.uk/spoke/andyMiddleton/

    one of andy’s TYF partners!

    Wikipedia: Jonathan Porritt
    In February of 2009, Porritt stated that population growth is a serious threat to the global environment and that contraception, abortion and family planning is a part of the answer to global warming. He thinks that people should have no more than two children and if they do, they are being irresponsible…
    Porritt acts as advisor to many bodies on environmental matters, as well as to individuals including Prince Charles and Stuart Rose, the chief executive of Marks & Spencer, advising on that company’s forward strategy. He is a board member of Wessex Water.Porritt is on the advisory board of BBC Wildlife magazine and actively supports the efforts of experts promoting renewable energy and sustainable development such as Walt Patterson. Since 2000, he has been chair of the Sustainable Development Commission, set up by the UK Prime Minister Tony Blair…
    Porritt is on the advisory board of BBC Wildlife magazine ..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathon_Porritt

    none of the above details were mentioned. CAGW was never mentioned, but Andy threw in ‘low carbon’ at every opportunity. embarrassing.

    btw is it possible for sceptics to legally stop even one media company from using ‘climate change’ or ‘global warming’ as synonyms for CAGW? surely it is MISLEADING (ADVERTISING) and causes craziness, such as the recent der spiegel piece which states: “(Steve)McIntyre asserts that he believes in Climate Change” to suggest this means he believes in CAGW!


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    pat

    note the generic “global warming”.

    WRAL: AP: Gore gets camera-shy for N.C. speech, limits media
    PIC CAPTION: Nobel Peace Prize winner Al Gore holds his medal and diploma at the Nobel Peace Prize ceremony in Oslo, Norway on Dec. 10. Gore was awarded the prize for sounding the alarm over global warming and spreading awareness on how to counteract it. (AP Photo/Odd Andersen)

    A Gore aide said Tuesday that media members will only be allowed to record video and audio of the first five minutes of Gore’s talk at Duke University on April 8. Photography will also be limited. Gore spokeswoman Kalee Kreider said the restrictions are standard for his talks but she wouldn’t say why they are in place..
    Duke spokeswoman Scottee Cantrell said Gore will speak for about 45 minutes and take questions collected from students.
    Gore won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007 for his advocacy of environmental issues, particularly his push to highlight global warming.
    http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/7330903/


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    Roy Hogue

    BTW – they got the Kosh funding scare wrong as well.

    janama,

    I think they just plain don’t care, as in dishonest. If Greenpeace was honest they’d be a very different outfit and probably they couldn’t attract funding. If you want a constituency — and Greenpeace certainly needs one — you need to tell people that they have a terrible problem and only you can save them. They have this quirk in common with politicians.

    That’s a bit exaggerated to make a point but not all that much that it isn’t true.


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    [...] all government funding to Greenpeace. Around the blogosphere there is growing comment on this issue. Joanne Nova asks them why instead of violence can they not produce the science to back up their global warming religion. Greenpeace needs to look [...]


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    MadJak

    GREENPEACE IS now A HATE BASED TERRORIST ORGANISATION.

    Anyone affiliated with this organisation is a terrorist sympathiser. This includes donors.


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  • #

    Hi all,

    Hope you don’t mind my passing through. It’s a busy day over on the Greenpeace weblog. Oh, but I guess you know that already. ;)

    To be clear – Gene is just calling for the same peaceful civil disobedience that liberated his own country (India) from imperialism. And he is specific about what he thinks people should do (protest, boycott, that kind of thing).

    Some people are taking this the wrong way, so I’ve added my own note to the blog post. There’s also a video of Gene, in case anyone wants to see what the guy who’s caused all this fuss looks like.

    I’d love to stay and chat, but little busy. I’ve just brewed up a big pot of (organic) tea, and will be doing my best to talk to folks over on the Greenpeace blog. Feel free to stop by and post a comment or question.

    – Andrew

    [Andrew, thanks for popping by to repeat the moderation "official" Greenpeace line, but it doesn't wash on the Greenpeace site, and it doesn't wash here. When someone says it's ok to break laws, and "we know where you live" there is no other interpretation. What the hell else would you use someone's home address for--to drop in Greenpeace leaflets? To stand outside and sing whale songs? If you want to write me a letter distilling your wisdom and with the missing empirical evidence feel free, you might convince me with reason, but why post it? Just pop it up here, or on the Greenpeace site.

    As long as you call us deniers we know you have no respect, not much knowledge, and are crippled with arrogance. Can I suggest you try treating us as people instead, or even, dare I suggest, scientists–which many of us are? Loading the article up with baseless lies about how much we are paid (we’re not) and suggesting we do this for the money is a deliberate attempt just to ignite the hate button among the greenpuce tribe.

    Breaking laws is dangerous ground, and Greenpeace are fools for thinking they can suggest it, especially without being exactly explicitly descriptive about which laws, and in which manner.

    There are nut-cases out there, and this kind of post from Greenpeace has two aims — one, hoping to intimidate skeptics into silence, and two, hoping to ignite a nutcase to DO something, then pretend that Greenpeace can hide behind it’s corporate mission statement, and deny all responsibility.

    Greenpeace can’t get away with inciting terrorism. You can’t pretend that there were any lines in that article designed to reign in the eco-loonies, there were no conciliatory statements about skeptics being scientists who have a different opinion. GreenViolence is just as evil, noxious and nasty as fascist-violence. –JN


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    Bulldust

    One suspects that the shifts were occuring in Green(whatever) a long time ago. Prominent member, Patrick Moore, quit the organisation depite 15 years of service because he saw the illogical stance it was making on certain issues. He is now more notorious (in Greenie eyes) for supporting nuclear as a sensible low-CO2 electricity option (largely behind paywall @ WSJ):

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120882720657033391.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

    The notable, if obvious, quote is:

    But I later learned that the environmental movement is not always guided by science.

    Here is an extended article by Moore about nuclear:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/14/AR2006041401209.html

    So in true Green style they eat their own at Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_%28environmentalist%29

    Surpringly one of the few pages Connolley does not edit.

    Here’s me betting that Moore is at the top of the GreenWar hit list because he betrayed the cause.


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    Louis Hissink

    Seems Andrew #20 is the Greenpeace webmaster, but his post here has to be one of the more patronising I’ve come across.

    Reminds me of something Sir Humphrey Appleby said in the BBC “Yes Minister” television series, that in order to stab someone in the back, you must first become their friend.


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    Science Not Consensus

    I guess Andrew really does know where we live….


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    Bulldust

    Popped a comment in the GreenTwists web site… in case it gets the RC treatment:

    “If you guys had half a clue, like your former prominent member, Patrick Moore, you would be supporting nuclear energy if you truly believe CO2 is the root of all climate ills.

    But then science and rational thought never interefere with your political agenda, do they?

    I shall make a point of showing this article to professed GreenGullible folks at my workplace so that they rethink their continued support of your organisation.

    Most of them are young but bright enough that they will probably see the error of their ways.

    PS> Andrew – your damage control do not detract from the venom in the original post, it actually complements it starkly. Thanks for highlighting this malevolent manifesto.”


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    Louis Hissink

    Let’s recall something that one of Gene’s countrymen, the Indian Sage Jiddu Krishnamurti, pointed out last century – that the the real violence isn’t in the final physical act, but in the thought processes that culminate in that violence.

    They really seem to have shot themselves in their collective feet with that blog post.


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    Ben

    And we be many, but you be few.

    Clearly hasn’t had a look at the polls recently.


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    J.Hansford

    Wow… The Eco-Fascists are showing their true colours. As soon as they don’t get their way they want to start breaking the law or call for the suspension of Democracy…. As Andrew Bolt so elequently said on his Blog today.

    “Climate alarmism is just the latest refuge of the Western totalitarian.”


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  • #

    How mature of them.

    Maybe after the coming orgy of violence on their part,what would be achieved for “protecting” the environment,after they attacked humans who is part of the environment?

    They are talking this way because they have been put in the corner by US,as their TRUE behavior becomes visible what they had been hiding for many years.The contempt they have for anyone outside of their irrational organization.The bigotry and hate they have for those who does not prescribe to their insane cause.

    I have long known that they are scums for their selectively hypocritical stances in support for the health of the environment,when they are really in it for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

    The scary part is that they are getting BILLIONS yearly from various organizations and people who must know what they are supporting,including threats of direct violence and intimidation.

    That makes them scums too for keeping this vile so called environmentalist organization alive.


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    Harry the Hacker

    Greenpeace – bunch of nutters. This should be no surprise at all.

    This is the same group who want to remove Chlorine from the world because its an evil chemical. Just imagine no chlorinated water, no swimming pools, and no PVC pipes. PVC is especially on their hit list – the material thats cheap and allows the supply of clean drinking water to millions. Replaced by what? Bamboo? Cast iron?

    Irrationally crazy the lot of them.


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    val majkus

    not really on topic but Jo does not have a tips column – or I haven’t found it yet

    I’d like to introduce the skeptics here to John O’Sullivan (just to quote from his bio the first para)
    John O’Sullivan was born in 1961 in Berkshire, England, of immigrant Irish parents. As an accredited academic, John taught and lectured for over twenty years at schools and colleges in the east of England before moving to the United States. As an analytical commentator, O’Sullivan has published over 100 major articles worldwide. In the U.S. his work features in the ‘National Review,’ America’s most popular and influential magazine for Republican/conservative news, commentary and opinion

    John has a legal background and used to write interesting articles for Climategate.com. He is a skeptic. He has an easy to understand style and adds humour when appropriate. He is currently writing for suite101.com. and relies on hits to keep him going. I urge the skeptics here to add his space on their favourites bar so you can check on his latest; here’s the link http://international-environmental-affairs.suite101.com/article.cfm/acid-oceans-due-undersea-volcanoes-not-humans
    you can get access to all his articles from his bio

    Hope you will enjoy his articles


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    In First Contact all Planet Earth becomes Borg.
    In the Greenpeace version the whole world becomes North Korea…


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    Mark D.

    Normally I’d be able to discount the nasty post except for the long list of wacko posts here by Farnish and his supporters. It doesn’t matter if Farnish is a member of Greanwar or not the attitude is what matters.

    For those of you whom missed that thread here it is:
    http://joannenova.com.au/2010/01/hanson-barracking-for-lawless-destruction-and-the-end-of-civilization/

    Clearly there is a number of them that ARE preparing to make trouble. The question is how many and when.


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    Mark D.

    Val I visited the home page of
    http://international-environmental-affairs.suite101.com/
    John O’Sullivan may write as a skeptic but the bulk of the articles on the above home page were pretty darn green.


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    speedy

    Louis@22

    Sir Humphrey says something like:

    “Before one can stab another in the back, it is necessary to get behind them”.
    I loved that show, and apparently it was very popular with the Asutralian parliamentarians as well.

    Cheers,

    Speedy


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    janama

    It was very popular program throughout Australia, ironically we now live the episode series that should have followed the last – Sir Humphrey as Prime Minister.


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    Ross

    This is another example of how powerful the Internet is — 15 yrs ago this guy would have had is rant in a Greenpeace letter to the editor or on Indian radio (maybe). We MAY have heard about it in the MSM a couple of weeks later but it would not have been in the headlines. Now ( just like Susan Boyle with her song ) it is around the world within 24 hrs hours and GreenPeace no matter what they do will not be able to control the damage — just like their funding debacle.If they had any sense the rant should have been removed from their website immediately .
    So it is a lesson to everyone of what can now be achieved -both positively and negatively.

    The AGW “movement” gained traction before widespread use of the Internet by harnessing tame MSM journalists and politicians but this cannot continue with the ease we have of obtaining up to date information on any subject. eg I would not have seen this Der Speigel article 10 years ago
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,686697,00.html

    But thanks to others picking it up and linking to it , we see it within days.


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    A C

    After reading your post on the WWF’s $60 billion carbon trading scheme fiddle, I can’t help seeing Greenpeace and WWF as just another couple of international corporate bandits themselves.


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    Graeme Bird

    These people are fascists for sure. For every one taxpayer they want to rob or hurt we’ve got to exact psychic payback by wanting to sack one dozen from the public sector. A 1-12 ratio. So we can limit the nasty stuff at that. Well the occasional kick in the shins. Punch in the shoulder. But that really would have to be the limit of it.

    Public service sackings are powerfully effective too. Because for these people thats a fate almost as bad as death or losing a child.

    Imagine your average CO2-Bedwetter having to retrain as a tradesman, or manufacturing operator. We desperately need many more people working in such occupations by the way. Not so much in absolute numbers as they are needed to dramatically increase as a proportion of the population, even as the proportion of people in the finance and public service rackets need to be reduced.

    So we have to exact this sort of payback in any cases. If you don’t have at least three or more reasons for doing something its probably not worth doing.

    We have to cut back in this way and fast. But we ought to be able to do it with relish and not with regret.


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    BobC

    It’s been pretty obvious where Greenpeace has been going, ever since Patrick Moore quit and started talking, at least.

    I had a shocker last year when I went to an AUDUBON SOCIETY MEETING, for Pete’s sake, because I wanted to — you know — learn to identify birds. There were a lot of other non-members there for the same reason. They had a speaker on some ecological/conservation subject (I don’t remember exactly what — I was waiting for the birding stuff) and he made it clear that he would be saying much more radical stuff if the meeting weren’t open to non-members.

    This is enough to make you paranoid — but are you paranoid if they REALLY are everywhere?

    I hope the closed meetings aren’t about violence — maybe just a matter of time.


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    Louis Hissink

    Speedy @ #34


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    Louis Hissink

    Whoops

    Speedy @ #24

    No, You first have to become their friend in order to be able to get behind to stab them in the back, other wise they would be so trusting.


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    val majkus

    Mark D; you’re right – John OSullivan is the only one I would read there and I followed him there from Climategate.com; so it’s not site I’m recommending but the writer in this case and he’s still writing as a skeptic


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    val majkus

    just in from WUWT
    Slabadang said on The great imaginary ice barrier
    April 4, 2010 at 9:13 am
    AGW theories total collapse!
    The gulf stream were slowing down……WRONG!
    Antarctic ice melting…………………………WRONG!
    Arctic ice in a “death spiral…………………WRONG!
    The earth is warming…………………………WRONG!
    More severe storms and hurricanes……..WRONG!
    More flooding…………………………………..WRONG!
    The sealevels are raisng more rapidly…WRONG!
    Glaciers melting faster than previous….WRONG!
    Amazonas……………………………………….WRONG!
    Kilimanjaro………………………………………WRONG!
    Dutch area under water……………………..WRONG!
    Scientific consensus about global W/co2…Thats more a joke??? WRONG!
    Winter snow a thing of he past…. another joke!!! WRONG!
    “Barbecue summer” …………………………another joke!!! WRONG!
    There will be a hotspot in the atmospfere…………………………….WRONG!
    When co2 inreases warming accours…. WRONG!
    African harvests………………………………………………………………..WRONG!
    Polarbears dying by global warming……a pure lie by WWF………WRONG!
    Low summer ice extent arctic 2007 =global warming……………..WRONG!
    Mediaval coooler than today ……oh yeah? say that to the vikings and the 400 published papers on the matter……an embarrasing intellectual insult..WRONG!
    The hockeystick…….falsification in its bluntest form………………..WRONG!!!
    How can anybody still belive in this crapscience??? On drugs???


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    Kevin

    So, they know where I am, OK. I also know they will be bicycling up to my location to exact their revenge. Funny, I think my big carbon spewing American Pickup Truck will trump their bicycle.

    Maybe they can throw TOFU at me as I drive away and spew world killing CO2 out of my tailpipe !!!!!!!!

    Having lost the argument, they must of course resort to threats, a clear sign of LOSER’S.

    Oh, by the way I also used to contribute to GreenPeace a.k.a. GreenViolence back in the 1980’s when they were actually trying to stop a few egregious activities. So they probably do indeed “Know Who I Am, and Where I’m At”

    Cheers, Kevin


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    Henry chance

    Green peace promotes dangerous activity to further their causes.


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    The [r]evolution won’t be televised.

    What do you do when patient petitioning, protest marches and court orders fail? What do you do when all the protocols and cheat codes of democracy fail? This is what you do: you reclaim the language of democracy from the twisted bunch that have hijacked, cannibalized and subverted it.

    Pressuring politicians on climate change is not working. We saw that in Copenhagen the UK ENQUIRY. We also know why. Which is why the global climateSCEPTICAL movement now must do course-correction. We need to shift targets and go after the real termites that hollowed out and imploded CopenhagenTHE UK PARLIAMENTARY ENQUIRY.

    Not Barosso, Obama or Wen Jiabao or RUDD, but the real obstacles to the climate deal this planet deserves and demands. The oil and gasGREEN mafia running loose in New DelhiEUROPE. The coalBANKING magnates that have Canberra by the short and curlies. The petrochemical giantsRENEWABLE ENERGY WANNABES that have placed a firm jackboot on the EU’s throat. The fossil foolsWIND POWER and nuclear lobbyists that have Washington DC on speed-dial.

    We need to hit them where it hurts most, by any means necessary: through the power of our votes, our taxes, our wallets, and more.

    We need to be inclusive. We need to join forces with those within the climate REALISTS movement that are taking direct action to disrupt the CO2PSEUDO-SCIENCE supply chain. We need to embrace the conservativesLEMMINGS too, the ones that choose scientific rigourFRAUD and court injunctions as their weapons.

    And we need to inspire, engage and empower everyone in between… from the AirPlottersFLEA BITTEN GREENIES stopping the expansion of HeathrowCHEAP POWER by purchasing bits of the proposed runwayDONATING to the volunteer BLOGGER activists that have been making life hell for fossil fuelALARMIST lobbyists in the US.

    Finally, we need to prove repeatedly, consistently, doggedly, that our alternativeREALISTIC vision of a world that runs on cleanCHEAP, PROVEN energy isn’t just a prototype, it’s already in production.

    Emerging battle-bruised from the disaster zone of CopenhagenUK PARLIAMENTARY ENQUIRY, but ever-hopeful, a rider on horseback brought news of darkness and light: “The politicians have failed. Now it’s up to us. We must breakABIDE BY the law to makeAND CHANGE the laws we need: laws that are supposed to protect society, and protect our future. Until our laws do that, screwCONTINUE being climate lobbyistsREALISTS. ScrewCONTINUE being climate activistsSCEPTICS. It’s not working. We needHAVE an army of climate outlawsBLOGGERS.”

    The proper channelsMSM have failed. It’s time for mass civil disobedienceBLOGGING to cut off the financialNEWS oxygen from denial and skepticismALARM AND SCIENTIFIC FRAUD.

    If you’re one of those who believe that this is not just necessary but also possible, speak to us. Let’s talk about what that mass civil disobedienceBLOGGING AND LETTER WRITING TO OUR ELECTED REPS is going to look like.

    If you’re one of those who have spent their lives undermining progressiveLEGITIMATE climate legislationSCIENCE, bankrolling junk science, fueling spurious debates around false solutions, and cattle-prodding democratically-elected governments into submission, then hear this:

    We know who you are. We know where you live. We know where you work.

    And we be many, but you be fewFRAUDS.


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    Nicely done, BH.
    The words of William S Burroughs seem appropriate to the times:
    …Most of the trouble in the world has been caused by folks who can’t mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has. Now your virus is an obligate cellular parasite and my contention is that evil is quite literally a virus parasite occupying a certain brain area which we may term the RIGHT center. The mark of a basic sh*t is that he has to be right…

    I’ve been reminded of that quote many times during the last year with the buildup to Dopenhagen, and then the response to the release of the emails. Burroughs was writing about religious fundamentalists forty years ago and some of his targets were valid targets. But the virus has changed sides. The enviropocalypse movement has created another swarm of humanity haters determined to drag us back to some imagined state of purity and innocence. Rather like the Flagellants of centuries ago. Except that the Flagellants whipped themselves before they whipped villagers.


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    Colin Davidson

    I cannot discern any philosophical difference between Greenpeace and Al Quaeda.

    Al Quaeda wants to change the policy of Western governments, because it disagrees. But because it realises that it will never attract any but the most naiive deadheads to the cause, it knows that it cannot get its way by normal means (ie by using the ballot box). So it has decided that instead of bravely standing candidates who advocate their crazy policy, and having people vote on it, they will take a cowards’ way out, as they cannot possibly win in a fair fight. The cause is Just, so the means is Justified. Blow up the Infidels.

    Greenpeace is also committed to a Just Cause. It knows it will never attract any but the most credulous Dingbats to the standard, that it cannot get its way through the ballot box. So it has decided to take the cowards’ way out. If they carry out their threat, their organisation will be as reviled as Al Quaeda. And when the perpetrators are thrown in jail, the key should be tossed to the whales.


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    “We be many, but you be few”. No, Greenpeace. As an MEP, I represent 4.2 million constituents, and most of them don’t believe the Great Carbon Myth. They won’t vote for it, and they won’t pay for it. We be many, Greenpeace, while you are a few nutters.


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    matty

    A brother in-law of mine – a professional photographer with a French agency – was recently given a pretty hard time by authorities in Canada and elsewhere while travelling with Greenpeace, and he couldn’t understand why. I had to explain to him that G-P had become very murky and that govts will be onto it. He also said that money was not an issue at any time. It was 5 star, first class all the way with many extravagant dinners. So the next time you see one of those girls in a Koala suit…….


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    Peter of Sydney

    Looks like the Greenies are getting both impatient and desperate. It was only a matter of time since the Copenhagen fiasco fell apart. They had high hopes of it leading to more control over people’s lives. Now they have to devise another strategy. Perhaps they could align themselves with some of the extreme Islamic terrorists. After all they have one thing in common. Both want to destroy western civilisation as we know it and usher a new totalitarian style of government. The sooner they align the better for all of us as we wake up to the Greenies true agenda. Then it will be interesting to see how the Greens party reacts. If they decide to remain “friendly” with the Greenies they will suffer the full force of the public’s disgust of such people and exterminate that party in quick order at the next elections. It’s time to have the true nature of the Greenies revealed in all its horror and disgust.


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    Whale-lover

    Dear Gene of Greenpeace, for every second someone like you remains alive on this planet threatening other human beings… God kills a whale… Pls do the right thing…

    P.S. If any of you Greenpeace terrorists come near my kids, be warned that I own a gun and will use it if necessary.


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    GoredToDeath

    Dear Gene of Greenpeace,

    I know who you are. I know where you live. I know where you work.

    I am going to hit you where it hurts most, by any means necessary…


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    Barry Woods

    My respnse took a couple of attempt to appear at Greenpeace:

    Juliette replied to me earlier:
    “What about Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela? They were definitively outlaws”

    Shame on you:
    Greenpeace/Juliette

    can anyone imagine any of these outstanding people saying:

    ‘we know where you live’

    Especially Rosa Parks

    I consider that, as many other people would, an out an out threat personally, to me and my family..

    Why say it?

    Are they going to come and knock on my door and have a friendly chat over a cup of tea…

    That was a threat…
    The law says people can ‘perceive a threat’

    I am shocked to see that this was from a communications director for Greenpeace, I had thought that it was just some words of some randon activists…

    Can you not see that this could incite ‘some’ people (ie they ‘misinterpret Gene – to be generous – to be ‘climate outlaws’ – does that include violence – sounds at least like violent acts) to acts of personal intimidation and violence…

    Please publically apologise, and make a statement, to prevent any lunatic bringing Greenpeace into further disrepute. I am worried for my personal safety and my families, as I do not agree with catastrophic unprecedented man made global warming, it is an example of a popular delusion and the madness of crowds.


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    Sandpaperman

    If you needed proof of how idiotic these green eco-fascist lunatics are, this is surely it. Threatening and inciting violence against global-warming skeptics, which recent polls show make up more than 50% of the population in the US, UK, Australia, and Germany.

    Gene, it’s not like we can’t find out who you are, where you work, where you live, who you love, and who your family members are.

    We know you live in Amsterdam. We know you have a Facebook account. We know you use Blogger and Twitter.

    What goes around, comes around Gene.


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    Tony

    “We know where you are ” Well that’s not very clever, since the majority of the population on the planet now think that AGW is highly unlikely if not ridiculous. So here we are – virtually all of us.


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    Mark D.

    Barry Woods @53 wrote:

    Juliette replied to me earlier:

    “What about Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela? They were definitively outlaws”

    A member of a supposed “peace group” Says “we know who you are we know where you live”.

    Same person follows that threat with the above comment about Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela? To rationalize their contemplation of illegal acts of violence?

    Truly delusional!

    This person needs professional help!


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    kate. r.

    “professional help!”

    perhaps they already got it

    Rarely have I seen such vitriol directed at an individual as the 1521 words directed at me by Stephan Lewandowsky here

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2861936.htm


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    JPA Knowles

    I find it hard to believe this post. How could Greenpeace intentionally machine gun it’s own feet? I ditched my G-P membership years ago over it’s climate stance. I don’t need to know where you live. I just posted the link to this article on my Facebook page and e-mailed a wide selection of my contacts who might be interested. The internet will facilitate the side-lining of organisations who support this kind of rebellious adolescent drivel.
    I hope that Greenpeace sees sense and publicly renounces this outburst becos it does do some good work.


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    Henry chance

    Greenpeace drives nails into trees so that lumberjacks get hurt.

    Here’s some facts you failed to mention.

    Earth First, an eco-terrorist group whose cofounder, Michael Roselle, is now on Greenpeace’s payroll. It is famous for driving spikes into trees, which can injure sawmill workers. (Roselle says Earth First now “discourages” tree-spiking.) When a car bomb explosion led in 1990 to the arrest of two Earth First members injured in the blast, Greenpeace formed an alliance of environmental groups that paid their bail and private investigation fees. Roselle, still an Earth First member, offers the theory that the Earth Firsters were innocent victims of attempted murder by anti-environmentalists. No charges were filed.”
    source http://www.highnorth.no/Library/Movements/Greenpeace/ge-ar-gr.htm


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    They’re like the Japanese in WWII. They saw the writing on the wall, had no weapons left and opted for the last thing – kamikazes. That’s a 10 on the fanaticism scale.


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    D Bonson

    Can they be reported as a terrorist organisation now that they have made threats of violence? The Australian National Security hotline is 1800 1234 00 for those who may be threatened by this radical organisation.


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    Joe Veragio

    D Bonson: @63

    Can they be reported as a terrorist organisation now that they have made threats of violence? The Australian National Security hotline is 1800 1234 00 for those who may be threatened by this radical organisation.

    In the old days they’d certainly be on security watchlists, just like certain Prime Ministers of the day were. National administrations are now so infiltrated ‘though, you don’t know who’s using your security services.


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    Otter

    ‘The greatest threat to the unborn is not abortion; it’s watermelon activists like sunstanti8.’

    There, fixed it for ya.


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    Joe Veragio

    Wouldn’t get into trading slogans with Greenpeace.

    They’re very good at that.

    It’s great for grabbing headlines , and a lot easier than producing evidence.


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    average joe

    Andrew:

    If you pass by here again;

    Why is it so important for Gene to stress that you guys “know where we live”?

    I dont care where you live????


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    average joe

    substanti8:

    We know how substantial the scientific knowledge of greenpeace members are.

    here;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvufOvneJMk


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    Joe Veragio

    substanti8:
    Re:

    … frozen methane in East Siberia …..vent to the atmosphere. ……… But even the most dire predictions of the last IPCC report did not include such methane feedback

    I’m more worried that the models didn’t take account of such an effect.
    So the models really haven’t a clue what’s really been causing the warming, up until a decade ago, have they ?


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    JPA Knowles

    substanti8 @ 69
    Methane is almost irrelevant in the overall warming of the planet because while it is a strong absorber of infra red light (as you correctly point out) it only has two very narrow band widths, both of which over-lap with water vapour. Already water vapour is mopping up close to 99% of those band-widths of IR and there’s never going to be a shortage of water on this planet.
    If methane release was a problematic positive feed-back we would have seen evidence in previous warming periods such as the one only a thoudand years ago.
    Greenpeace does a good job of raising awareness of problems in the natural environment but I think methane is not one of them.


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    Roy Hogue

    Andrew @19,

    When next you see Gene tell him I think he’s a bully and a coward. If he want’s to make threats tell him to come make them in person, eye to eye like a man.


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    Anne-Kit Littler

    “GreenViolence is just as evil, noxious and nasty as fascist-violence. –JN”

    GreenViolence IS fascist violence!


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    Memory Vault

    comment posted at Greenpeace

    To Juliette, Andrew, Brian, Grateful Child, Mike G and all the rest of the good folk at Greenpeace . . . .

    Guys, please stop wasting your much-valued time and effort debating with all these redneck flat-earth deniers who insist on trying to discredit you and the organisation’s fantastic efforts. They are just jealous because you guys won, and they lost, and now there’s stuff-all they can do about it. I mean, let’s consider the score board:

    1. Despite tens of thousands of years of climate following a natural, repeating cycle of 25 – 30 years alternate warming and cooling, you managed to convince people that just this once, the last warming cycle would continue upwards “forever” unless drastic changes were made.

    2. Despite the entire record of human history being one of growth, prosperity, and plenty in the “warm” periods, and famine, starvation, and suffering in the “cool” periods, you managed to convince people that, just this once, “warm” is bad, and “cold” is good.

    3. Through your demonizing of fossil fuels and all realistic viable energy alternatives for the past twenty years, you have managed to ensure the western world is going into this next cool period with a dramatic energy deficiency.

    4. As a spin-off of that campaign you have managed to ensure that 30% (so far) of the world’s previously surplus agricultural productivity has now been diverted to biofuel production.

    5. Meanwhile your colleagues over at Goldman Sachs and elsewhere have managed to collapse the entire financial structure of the western world.

    So, the world is going to get cold, crops are going to fail, people are going to freeze and starve, and there’s no energy, no surplus food, and no finance to do anything about it. Meaning about two billion people are now facing slow, miserable deaths over the next decade, with nobody actually able to be held accountable. Least of all you guys.

    Which is what it was really all about right from the start, wasn’t it? The greatest genocide in history with total plausible deniability for all you perpetrators.

    So, stop wasting time debating with these losers. Get out and celebrate, before the food and energy riots start.

    Peter Sawyer – author – The GreenHoax Effect © 1990

    You know where I am and I work from home


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    MadJak

    Memory Vault @ 73,

    Bravo, well said and very succinct.

    ^^^ What he said ^^^


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    Mark D.

    Madjak where have you been it’s been busy here!


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    MadJak

    Mark D,

    Looks like it has been busy. That work thing everyone keeps talking about got in the way. Apparently the state was short of cash so needed some more taxes to be earnt.


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    Joe Veragio

    What happened to substanti8: ?
    Been a naughty boy then?
    Posts seem to have been expunged sometime betweem 9 & 11 am, Tue.
    Did I miss something ?
    A few replies and references back to (now replaced )posts might be a little confusing.
    Such is the price of maintaining free speech I guess

    _________

    Unlike certain infamous blogs in the pro-AGW camp, Joannenova.com.au does not use taxpayer funds or government employee work-time to promote a position or agenda, or to censor those who disagree (even though they are indirectly paying the bills). It does not receive or redirect any money from the Government, yet the level of free speech here greatly surpasses that of most pro-AGW sites, publicly funded or otherwise. However substanti8 refused to abide by the submission rules after being repeatedly warned, and continued to bombard us with childish letters replete with slurs.

    In the event he/she apologizes, substanti8 will be allowed to post again.

    Editor


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    Mark

    sunsettommy,

    I’ve noticed that attitude in liberals in general. An inability to engage in rational debate. A total hatred towards anyone who opposes them.

    GreenPeace has gone total watermelon.


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    substanti8 wrote this overwrought and inaccurate comment:

    Methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, and the release of arctic methane will create a positive feedback loop in the Earth’s climate.  But even the most dire predictions of the last IPCC report did not include such methane feedback.

    Come on!

    Methane has such a tiny absorption range(far smaller than the already small IR absorption range of CO2)that it is almost irrelevant.Plus H2O already does most of the absorption in the same tiny absorption range of CH4.

    CH4 does not even absorb much in its 3 feeble frequencies either.Two of its three bands fall outside of the blackbody curve,thus negligible IR absorption is left with the remaining one that competes with H2O.

    From my charts only thread at my forum is this chart YOU need to study:

    Hopefully this will help you clear up your confusion.


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    Mark D.

    Sunsettommy,
    But Me-thane is so personal sounding! It means Me-problem.


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    LOL,

    Sounds like a child then.

    I find it fascinating when I read such silly postings where they try so hard to create something out of nothing.

    Methane is commonly measured in the parts per BILLION,thus it is a very rare gas in the atmosphere.It is why we do not smell it.

    He he…


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    Tel

    When a car bomb explosion led in 1990 to the arrest of two Earth First members injured in the blast, Greenpeace formed an alliance of environmental groups that paid their bail and private investigation fees.

    That sounds like the Judi Bari case, which is well worth reading in detail. It wasn’t just “a car bomb explosion” is was a pipe bomb under the driver’s seat of Bari who had absolutely no personal history of bombing, nor any experience in explosives. The FBI immediately accused Bari of blowing herself up (I’m not making this up, I couldn’t do, read it yourself).

    The FBI accusation was that Bari was deliberately transporting the pipe bomb in the back seat, somehow it rolled under her driver’s seat, and amazingly it activated all three triggering devices (a time trigger, a motion trigger and a safety override switch) in order to blow up the driver. Third world dictators usually manage to come up with more plausible scenarios for bumping off their political opponents.

    After repeated attempts to investigate Bari for her own attempted murder, the FBI finally gave up and investigated no one at all.


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    Joe Veragio

    Sounds like an open & shut case


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    Joe Veragio

    Well it’s made the MSM:-

    It’s a car crash. There’s simply no other way to view it.
    from the UK Guardian.
    They’ve also dug up some alleged reference to a knife by some twit in a tweet on twitter, from 9 March.


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    papertiger

    In peace, nothing so becomes a man as modesty and humility, but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with rage and lend the eye a terrible aspect.

    See that? I can issue threats from underneath my bed covers too.


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    Keith

    The apparatchik Gene Hashmi, having whipped up the Greenpeace troops into a frenzy, has now done what any fearless leader of the left does. He’s gone on holidays, yes that’s right, this is how to reinforce the belief and the passion – incite law breaking, then go on a two month (yes, two MONTHS, not a misprint) in Thailand. This guy is normally based in Amsterdam, do maybe he needs two months to get there via greenpeace approved, eco-friendly transportation. What a joke. This guy is a walking, talking self-parody. Holiday info via Tim Blair’s blog.


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    JPA Knowles

    Over at The Air Vent I read this from G-P;

    “Statement from Ananth, International Programme Director:
    We got this one wrong, no doubt about it. I’m holding up my hands on behalf of the organisation and saying sorry for that. Peaceful action is at the very core of what we do, so any language that even comes close to suggesting that’s not the case is something we cannot support.”

    I hope Gene takes a very long holiday to consider his position but unfortunately there are plenty of angrys out there who back his militant slant.
    I think this is a good outcome as it has forced the hand of G-P, at least in words.


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    Atomic Hairdryer

    re: Roger Helmer MEP:

    “We be many, but you be few”. No, Greenpeace. As an MEP, I represent 4.2 million constituents, and most of them don’t believe the Great Carbon Myth. They won’t vote for it, and they won’t pay for it. We be many, Greenpeace, while you are a few nutters.

    Unfortunately the lunatics are taking over the asylum. Greenpeace claim that we are “cattle-prodding democratically-elected governments into submission”, yet who is it that helped block Kingsnorth, supported attacks on UK critical national infrastructure and are now preventing South Africa from increasing it’s energy security? Not to mention giving us overpriced and toxic ‘energy saving’ lamps, creating a massive subsidisation system for wind energy and causing great harm to EU economies and the public.

    For some reason, the EU seems to be listening to these people, so we get 20/20/2020 and now potentially a 30% CO2 reduction target by 2020. Why? So Greenpeace’s ‘charitable trust’ donors can profit.

    Someone needs to reign in the NGO’s. Greenpeace already has it’s people representing governments on intergovernmental groups, which may be good lobbying, but isn’t good for democracy.

    I think for the rest of Greenpeace’s rant, it’s the usual story. Follow the money. Greenpeace has, like other NGO’s been earning very nicely from donors to promote AGW. Individual donations typically have been falling, but at least Greenpeace hasn’t become as reliant on government funding as the WWF. If AGW simply becomes natural variability, they stand to lose money from their corporate donors who’ll move onto the next bubble, and individual donors after they realise they’ve been conned.

    Added to this is no doubt the loss they’ll make from their ‘ethical’ investments in green technology. People have invested an awful lot of money in anticipation of legislated subsidies, and they really do not want that bubble to burst.


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    average joe

    Atomic Hairdryer;

    “overpriced and toxic ‘energy saving’ lamps…”

    Yes, the Health Authorities in my country recommends to flee the room IMMEDIATELY
    if such a lamp is broken. Open all doors and wait for…15 minutes I think it was.

    Because of the toxic mercury gas inside.

    Carbon footprint indeed.


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    Roy Hogue

    average joe,

    My grandfather was a dentist for 40 years. In those days the only type of filling he had available was mercury amalgam. He handled the stuff all day long 5 days a week, pouring the mercury out of a bottle into his bare hand. I’ve seen him do it many times. After all those years you would think it would do him some kind of harm. But no problem could ever be attributed to it. So much for the great toxic mercury scare.

    You wouldn’t want to swallow any of it and it’s a good idea to keep it out of our environment. But the danger to humans is greatly exaggerated in my view. Kind of like CO2 being a danger to humans.


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    Otter

    Roy~ Hate to be a downer but quite a difference between the liquid and the gas. The gas can be inhaled by accident if a person is unaware the ‘green’ bulb has some in it.


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    average joe

    Roy, I am by no means an expert on mercury.

    But I have picked up that mercury gas is dangerous. You inhale it, and it gets easier into your bloodstream.

    When pouring liquid mercury from one cup to another, I dont think there is much gas evapourating.

    And, as you say, much of the scare for this and that substance is often blown out of proportions.

    It does seem odd, though, that one department enforces to forbid the edison-style lamps, while another
    department warns us against the replacement.You can’t win, it seems.

    The LED lamps might be a good replacement, but they still has a very high cost per unit, and the the light is a bit cold. But there are advancements within LED lamps, and the advancements are almost on a monthly basis now. My guess is, that within a year or so we can replace many of our lamps with LED units.

    That will be nice.


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    Roy Hogue

    Joe,

    Like you I’m not an expert on mercury. But perhaps a little general physics can be applied here. I agree that liquid mercury would not evaporate significantly under ambient conditions. That’s why my grandfather suffered no ill effects. It can only exist as vapor under much lower pressure or much higher temperature. So I would argue that if a fluorescent lamp is broken the mercury vapor would quickly condense into liquid. Along with that, the amount of mercury involved is miniscule. So I can’t see any terrible danger if I break one of the supposedly so harmful little light bulb replacements.

    I’ve preferred to use fluorescent lighting wherever I could for a long time because they last so much longer and I’m not changing light bulbs somewhere every other month. Not to mention the fact that they do use less power to deliver the same amount of light.

    And the hypocrisy, if I may use that word, is indeed strange. Also, it’s not a good idea to let mercury get into the environment. So no matter what you do, one hand seems to be double-crossing the other.


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    [...] [Not to mention Greenpeace declaring that they know where you live... [...]


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    Mark S

    Love it…let’s see the tree-hugging-bleeding-heart-leftie-sandal-brigade outrun a subsonic piece of ORGANIC lead

    [Let's not get violent -- JN]


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    Robert of Ottawa

    What is missing from this discussion is that the Enviro-mentalists want power – absolute political and economic power; dictatorship. Nothing shall happen without their say-so. I think it is also called Fascism – where violence is used to cow individuals (including corporations) into doing what the government dictators want.


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