Golly but, that’s a strange spot to leave a solar panel…
Sydney reached the longest cold streak for 140 years, and it looked like it might become the longest ever. But then a few days ago, after 331 days of cool weather, temperatures reached the magic 30.2C* at Observatory Hill Sydney ending the newsworthy cold run.
Back in 1883 Sydney had 339 days in-a-row where the thermometer didn’t make it up to 30C (86F). Since then, five million people arrived, along with the Cahill Expressway, skyscrapers, and 100,000 cars a day, but even that, apparently, wasn’t enough artificial urban warming to reach temperatures of 140 years ago.
But Craig Kelly (former MP) has some footage from that famous site and asks “What’s going on here?”
Climate change causes roaming solar panels?
That’s a strange spot to leave a panel… | CraigKelly
It’s even more suspicious when looked at from above. The solar panel position (marked in red) is exactly due south of the Stevenson screen where the thermometer is kept (marked with an arrow). If, hypothetically, someone wanted to leave a reflective object pointed at the box at midday, that’d be the place to do it. (Midday of course, is around 1pm Daylight Savings time — or 1:06pm exactly.)
The record on Jan 18th was set between 2pm and 2.30pm.
Note the 5m calibration mark on the bottom right. That solar panel is closer than that.
Five metres due south of the Stevenson screen…? Google Maps
Hello, hello.
What‘s going on here ? #CookingtheClimateData pic.twitter.com/GwHvTQsgWD
— Craig Kelly (@CKellyUAP) January 20, 2023
Someone has already done a backyard experiment, which is probably more than the million-dollar-a-day BOM has done. And it’s pretty obvious that sunlight reflects off a solar panel. But then, the Experts say the Sydney Observatory set-up is accurate to a tenth of a degree and we shouldn’t trust the non-standard equipment of 1883, because it doesn’t have solar panels lying around, I mean, it wasn’t standardized…
The same Experts also say that screens should have a 30 meter buffer zone cleared around them. Nevermind about that. Remember it was 30.2C on Jan 18th, so tell the world, right?
Note to the ABC, who’s full time meteorologist Tom Saunders, didn’t visit the site, this is what unpaid citizen journalists do. Will the two-million-dollars-a-day ABC find a moment to ask the BoM why the solar panel was there? Was it connected to anything, when was it “installed” and is it mentioned in the meta-data? Perhaps the panel was at the wrong angle and had no effect, but if the BOM was an agency of science, it would want to know.
More importantly, if “climate change” is the greatest threat we face today, the BOM would act like temperature measurements matter.
As long as the BOM treats their sites like a joke, we know “climate change” isn’t science.
Thanks to Craig Kelly @CKellyUAP, Lance, Ross P.
UPDATE: For the record, here are the observations from Jan 18th as listed on the BOM site for Sydney Observatory.
Captured from the BOM site (Click to enlarge)
* Lance points out that the BOM observations above show 30.1C as the max (which was what I wrote in the post initially) but apparently there was at least one or two seconds at 30.2C in that half hour which means officially the max was 30.2C.
Data and stuff
Google Maps of Sydney Observatory
Sydney Observatory Temperatures in Jan 2023 | Long term records of BOM site ID 066214 | Site metadata and maps | Latest Sydney Observatory temperatures (last 72 hours.)
*It is of course, not a glass thermometer anymore but a PT100 platinum resistor, recording voltages. Thanks to Siliggy and we’ll have more to say on them later…
The world going mad over a subtle change of a variable which we have no control over. I have mentioned before, the fiat maximum for Bendigo was 2 degrees higher than the running data suggested. Completely gamed. Unfortunately scaring the population is the way to mega profits.
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It used to be that only butchers put their thumb on the scales to fool their customers.
Nostalgia aint what it used to be…
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How ingenious. The temperature rises as it should, and they get some electricity as a side benefit. 🙂
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Any material site change should be detected and corrected by the homogenisation algorithm.
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What is the homogenisation algorithm Simon?
And how is it science?
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And where is the algorithm published?
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Simon, you haven’t been around here long. Read the “homogenisation” methods according to the BOM. Even they admit they can’t explain it. The Bom is a sacred medieval guild.
June 2015: If it can’t be replicated, it isn’t science: BOM admits temperature adjustments are secret
And ask yourself, would the thermometer at Wedding Cake in Sydney Harbour or at Sydney Airport really be able to detect a solar panel reflection at the Observatory? That’s some kind of religious faith you have there…
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Jo , I would guess the single solar panel is quite innocuous upon consideration the BoM Stevenson screen is situated atop a heat absorbing and reflective paved courtyard. Despite the surrounding foliage offering some insulative barrier the brick dwelling and the road adjacent to the housed thermometer would also radiate heat from exposure to sunlight . The Sydney Observatory station is a classic urban heat island
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It is not a “compliant site” anyhow. But the solar panels are replacing reflection from grass and a shrub, so the net effect is not a cooling one…
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Yes I agree the photovoltaic panel should never have been improperly placed there to potentially compromise the temperature readings and kudos to Craig Kelly ..It would be interesting to conduct an experiment in a comparable environment and another in a buffer zone grass clearing to see what the temperature differences are.. That would not be so difficult to arrange
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Jo I rarely recommend an ABC report for a story tip but this one may pique your interest: with all the renewed climate crisis hysteria 16 – 17 years after Tim Flannery prophesied ‘ even the rain that falls will never fill our dams and river systems it is sobering to examine the BoM time series ” Rainfall Across Australia Since 1950 ” in the ABC article ” Australias east coast set for third straight La Nina season ,experts predict ” As we segue into another rare triple La Nina this year the Australian BoM categorizes three Triple La Nina events shaded in red since 1950 : 1954 – 1957 ; 1973 – 76 and 1998 – 2001 in the prelude to the Millennium Drought .Although the 2023 rainfall totals are not complete, as one can see from a cursory evaluation of the chart the rainfall percentiles of the previous TLN’ are on course to be higher than the 2020 – 23 triple La Nina cluster .It is very doubtful the combined rainfall percentiles of the 1954 -57 and 1973 -76 TLN clusters will be surpassed this year which surely buries the renascent and rather convenient apocalyptic narrative that the 2020 -23 downpours and floods are signs and portents of climate change https://abc.net.au/news/2022-08-26/australia-set-for-three-la-ninas-expert-says/101371062
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It’s some new AI which allows some person to add or subtract subjectively. In other words – CHEATING.
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What is the homogenisation algorithm?
It’s a computer model doncha know?
It tells you back what you’ve told it.
Except when it tells you back what somebody else has told it.
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The “homogenisation” that the BOM does, is on record as being impossible to replicate because it isn’t just an algorithm, it’s also human input that isn’t documented. Even if the original data is preserved somewhere, a lack of documentation showing where, how, and why changes were made, is the antithesis of the scientific method.
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Besides this intervention we know that the 140 year record was broken. The only other reason for the solar screen being in place was to charge up the electric lawn mower.
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It is documented. http://www.bom.gov.au/research/publications/researchreports/BRR-032.pdf
I wasn’t just talking about BoM. All of the temperature datasets use different methods and come out with nearly the same results.
Jo should also suggest how she thinks the solar panel would affect the weather station. A solar panel that outputs measurable heat 5m away would be highly inefficient 🙂
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Satellite temperature readings for the same day please so that an objective comparison can be made. As requested by the Chief Scientist of Utopia (not Australia).
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Simon says “All of the temperature datasets use different methods and come out with nearly the same results.”
No they don’t. UAH doesn’t agree with the surface data at all. The proxies don’t agree either. Tree rings stop working in 1961 don’t you know… Indeed which proxies work from 1000AD to 2020AD. Name one…
As for efficiency — what do you call a thing that doesn’t use 78% of the incoming energy — a solar panel. Solar panels heat the air directly around them, and also reflect light.
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Dr Spencer says UAH correlates pretty well with other data. Here is an example
https://www.drroyspencer.com/2019/04/australia-surface-temperatures-compared-to-uah-satellite-data-over-the-last-40-years/
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And one more just to completely wipe the “at all” off the face of this blog.
https://www.drroyspencer.com/2016/03/uah-v6-global-temperature-update-for-feb-2016-0-83-deg-c-new-record/
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So it still correlates across the whole continent and in the last 40 years, but when it comes to newsworthy “record years”, or the last decade, UAH often disagrees and the BOM never mention that to the public. Or here either.
In Roy’s words from your link; ” Users of the UAH data should expect monthly differences between the UAH and BOM data of 0.6 deg. C or so on a rather routine basis ”
PS: Consider the last ten years. UAH shows no warming in Australia at all. But ten years ago the BOM said Australia had warmed 0.9C in the last century. In 2023 they say “Australia has warmed, on average, by 1.47 ± 0.24 °C since national records began in 1910” That’s a big divergence in the last decade.
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So, BoM shows no warming in Australia for the 17 years.. really !
Does BoM show no warming in December since 1980, except that El Nino peak ?
And you do know 2016 was the peak of a very strong El Nino, don’t you
Absolutely NOTHING to do with atmospheric CO2.
The world has cooled a lot since that El Nino. !
Notice also that Roy is NOT USING ACORN 2 !
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Australia has cooled a lot since that 2016 El Nino… over 0.5C !!
Has BoM ever mentioned this fact ?
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Unfortunately I can’t zoom out to see the surroundings fully , but on the surface it seems a wildly unsuitable place to site a weather station. Surely it isn’t one authorised by the WMO and shouldn’t be used to claim any records, hot or cold, or is there a proper official Sydney site?
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Tony, this is the official Sydney site. It’s not a top ranking ACORN trend setter used for long term climate analysis, but it will be used for “records” and headlines, and is also used to adjust top ranking sites further away.
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Solar panels are highly inefficient. They only convert about 20% of the input into electricity. The remaining 80% is either reflected or absorbed as heat.
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“All of the temperature datasets use different methods and come out with nearly the same results.”
Apart from the massive COLLABORATION…..
They all work with the same MASSIVELY CORRUPTED base data from sparse, heavily urban affected sites and airports where the sites are usually right next to the runway.
The fabrications you are talking about bear basically ZERO resemblance to anything globally realistic.. !
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“A solar panel that outputs measurable heat 5m away”
ROFLMAO.. Simon seems to think glass with a black backing doesn’t reflect !
Thinks the Aluminium frame doesn’t get hot and radiate heat.
I am more and more convinced he lives in a different universe, where known physics does not apply.
And where anything he can make up in his mind, somehow becomes reality !
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The BOM has been asked to explain how certain “homogenisation” results were obtained, and they were unable to do so because, as they said, “human intervention”.
This is not the scientific method.
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It’s not “outputting measurable heat”, it’s reflecting incoming insolation past the Stevenson screens where it can be converted into the infrared spectrum, i.e. heat, once it meets with the box interior.
Or do you believe that reflected sunlight can’t warm another location efficiently? Because if so, there are whole lotta concentrated solar production centres (CSPs) that are faking energy production by converting reflected sunlight into thermal forcing.
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But wouldn’t the light be reflected back into they sky rather than sideways at ground level? 😉
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Basic “angle of reflection” alludes Simon’s mental capability.!
Hint: if the sun is directly above, then a mirror at 45 degrees will turn the light through 90 degrees.
Do at least try to learn some basic primary school physics !
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Seriously please think for a couple of seconds before posting.
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The suggestion is that in the hottest time of day the sun might be reflecting directly onto the screen.
Could be. Looks possible. Check it.
The solar array appears to be facing north, probably magnetic north. That, I think, would be about 9 degrees off true north at Sydney. Now my old head has forgotten which way. I think true north would be 351 degrees magnetic.
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The shadow on the Rain Gauge (tipping bucket type) shows that when the picture was taken, the sun was pretty much overhead.. (maybe slightly to the north)
The reflection would have been directed pretty much straight at the screen.
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Solar panels do reflect sunlight. Not so much when the angle of the sun is normal (90 deg) to the surface of the panel, but when that angle changes to say 45 deg the reflection is significant.
For Sydney, in summer the optimum angle of tilt for solar panels is with south end pivoted up at around 10 deg from the horizontal along an east-west hinge line. The panel picture looks to be more like 45 deg, so plenty of reflection.
Trust me they do reflect sunlight!
https://postimg.cc/K1VxQdTN
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Poor Simon, you have just shown everybody that you have ABSOLUTELY ZERO UNDERSTANDING of the homogeniastion algorithms. !
But we knew that already. !
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Al-Gore-Rithms.
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Simon, have you ever had to do a real scientific experiment with grown-ups and had to record the data?
Did you write down the actual number?
Or the number you thought it should be?
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I’m sure that the algorythm would be unresponsive to the situation given that the situation is gender neutral.
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Well, the thermometer was feeling cold and lonely…
Thermometers are people too!
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I’m a bit curious as to why a single solar panel has been installed at all, what is its purpose? Then why is it on the grass and not on the roof? Surely having it on the ground exposes it to the sun for less time each day.
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At it looks like it’s behind a solid gate that’s only accessible by swipe card issued to specific people.
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Only remotely legitimate reason I can think of is for hobby experimentation of some sort
Maybe the person living there tinkers with electronics or something and set up a temporary solar panel.
I know I have done similar many times,
…but never to aim at a thermometer 😉
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The purpose is very, very clear.
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They were caught here, but where else have they been physically interfering with temperature measurements?
Most temperature measuring stations are in remote areas and unlikely to be seen by anyone with a scientific eye.
We already know how they routinely fraudulently alter temperature measurements by their secret anti-scientific practice of “homegenisation”. It is not science because it is not reproducible because they refuse to publish the methodology. In fact there is likely no methodology, they just manually adjust temperatures to suit there political agenda as Jo and others have documented.
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Their not there.
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Oh please! Enough of these false allegations.
The methodology was published in 2012. You can find the document on the BoM website.
It’s known as “Techniques involved in developing the Australian Climate Observations Reference Network – Surface Air Temperature (ACORN-SAT) dataset” also labeled CAWCR Technical Report 049
It’s available via webpage http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/data/acorn-sat/#tabs=Methods .
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As far as I’m aware, there is insufficient methodology published for independent researchers to actually reproduce what they’ve done and also, human judgement is required to make the adjustments.
Therefore it’s not science.
Jo has documented this before on this website.
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Exactly. No one can replicate their homogenisation unless they get a job at the BOM and an insider explains why they subjectively choose about 5 out of the nearest 100 sites in any given year to “adjust” the temperatures. After nagging the BOM at least published a list of which sites were used in which years, but it’s a moving feast. Eg, Ballarat was used to “correct” a thermometer at a lighthouse on Bruny Island south of Tasmania. It’s only 800km and across the Bass Strait...
Cobar was used to fix Alice Springs. It’s 1,500 km or 1,000 miles for our American friends.
See my Tag “homogenisation“.
It appears they look for matches between sites for the last five most recent years. So if we screw up two sites “together” and at the same time, then will be a match. Good eh?
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BOM refused to answer Gerard Rennick in senate estimates when he asked for the calculations used in the homogenising process , instead trying to fob him off with techno babble about millions of computations which are then further put through the secret washing machine in order to get right temps.
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I wonder if an algorithm for adjustments to the volume of Stevenson screens exists.
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Every site has been “adjusted” to match urban-warmed sites.
Even sites where there have been zero changes.
Urban changes like shed, paving, air-conditioners pumping out heat.. have all been ignored.
The idiotic biased homogenisation manipulations, as applied by BoM, work EXACTLY the opposite to how it should.
The allegations are NOT false, they are provable, just by looking at the adjustments that have been made.
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by rights the should pasteurize it just to be sure we don’t get phthisis.
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C’mon man – and things – that solar panel identifies as a melting iceberg! Or a stranded polar bear! Or a snot-nosed echidna…
O, The Science, how thou art fallen.
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Actually, the BOM screen is behind Adelaide High School, about equidistant from West Terrace and Henley Beach Rd. Sports fields on 3 sides and trees to the south. When a large interscholastic soccer competition is on , I have seen buses parked around the fence that encloses the site…!
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Love photoshop, you can add solar panels to anything
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… Even if its only in your mind !
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And some minds are impervious to facts.
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Even managed to “photoshop” it to that video too!
I mean, did you even go through the entire post or are just trolling? Pretty sure we all know the answer, and here I am feeding the troll!
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“Even managed to “photoshop” it to that video too!”
And get the strobing on the panel as the camera zooms…
… and the still picture just catching the reflection of the shrub in the top right corner.
PF is just making up nonsense… par for the course… for they/them.
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So Peter, you agree a solar panel there is wrong?
Then tell us your evidence that the picture is altered.
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Must admit I was wondering about photoshop but then seen the video and no it’s not photoshopped .
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I sometimes wonder if Fitzy is writer for the Babylon Bee.
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When will the high circulation newspapers investigate (never) & report this, when will “your ABC call out the fraud, when will channel 7 report the fraud.
When will he moron that identifies as an energy minister discuss the fraud??
Answer to all questions is NEVER. It doesn’t fit the narrative. Can’t change policies based on fraudulent claims but they can initiate policies based on fraud, lies & DECEPTION.
THEYRE PAST MASTERS AT LIES & DECEPTION. WHERES MY $ 275.00 worth of lies & deceit?.
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I found this on a web site for Australia’s Gold Coast (Queensland).
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“….however on a typical hot summers day in Australia it’s not uncommon for a solar cell to reach a scorching 75 °!
Which is why no sane person puts banks of these things on the roof of a domestic dwelling, not to mention the sheer mass of a 15 25Kw array. (Anything less means you are just show-boating. Last time I looked solar panels generate electric potential when exposed to sunlight. Unless a panel has a MANUAL, mechanical switch BEFORE the output terminals, those terminals will be “live”
Some of the “heat” in a working panel comes from the internal “greenhouse” effect (UV penetrates the GLASS front “window”, IR starts bouncing about inside the structure, temperature rises. Glass is used for the front “window” because “hail-resistant” materials like polycarbonates and acrylics, whilst much lighter, are very poor conductors of UV. Part two is where, as soon as current starts to flow, when driving an actual load, some energy is lost as heat within the panel circuitry. As will become more obvious, glass is not a “perfect conductor of light. Anyone who has been driving at around noon may have noticed the increase in eye-watering “flash” reflections of sunlight from the front and rear glass of other cars; sunlight reflected from “transparent” glass. Solar panel arrays as a hazard to general aviation? Real pilots wear REAL “Ray-Bans” for a reason.
Have ANY actual engineers ever looked closely at “solar” rigs as complete systems in the REAL world. I am most certainly NOT an engineer, just a lowly retired “techie”.
All that aside; this collection of images of the BOM “backyard” is “interesting”, in a Chinese Curse sort of way.
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The BoM says:
Do I need to add “sarc”?
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BoM have just found yet another way of “adjusting” the data… that’s all !
A variation on the “metal fence’ methodology.
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Other enormous problems with that site are: no 30m clearance as Jo mentioned, presence of trees/hedge nearby, presence of an old stone cottage with enormously thick stone walls that absorb and re-radiate heat, presence of bitumen pavement, etc..
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Is there a watering system for the garden? Who controls it?
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This is an interesting question Simon Thompson , I’ve put up photos before of a Stevenson screen from Wanaaring in outback western NSW that had some rocks sitting on top of the screen a veggie garden in the background and road seal too close to the screen .
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Why does the BoM even bother to “measure” temperature any more?
What’s the point, they already adjust the measurements anyway?
Why can’t they just simulate the temperature with their beloved and invalidated “models”?
Isn’t that how “science” is done these days?
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That was the question asked in the novel 1984 when it was discovered the official stats had been changed….
“A great deal of the time you were expected to make them up out of your head. For example, the Ministry of Plenty’s forecast had estimated the output of boots for the quarter at 145 million pairs. The actual output was given as sixty-two millions. Winston, however, in rewriting the forecast, marked the figure down to fifty-seven millions, so as to allow for the usual claim that the quota had been overfulfilled. In any case, sixty-two millions was no nearer the truth than fifty-seven millions, or than 145 millions. Very likely no boots had been produced at all. Likelier still, nobody knew how many had been produced, much less cared. All one knew was that every quarter astronomical numbers of boots were produced on paper, while perhaps half the population of Oceania went barefoot.
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Also in Nineteen Eighty Four:
The Left treat Nineteen Eighty Four as an instructional manual, not a warning.
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Or just do it by ‘consensus’.
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Exactly Ronin, when things go wrong it is NOBODY’s fault because everything is a committee nowadays.
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Maybe try Dan’s secret methodology – ‘a creeping assumption….’
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Apart from ALL the other problems, and the data fraud, what about the enormous urban heat island (UHI) effect of Sydney, a city of 5 million people or so?
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BoM’s Adelaide city screen is next to West Terrace, 5 lanes each way. Oddly enough, the day’s maximum is nearly always around 4:30-6:00pm, during evening rush hour.
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Well we all know that the extremists are masters at cooking the books and have been for a very long time.
BTW the population of Sydney in 1883 was about 240,000 or 0.24 million and today in 2023 is about 5.9 + million, so it’s very easy to understand that their so called Climate Change is just more of their BS and fraud.
But I’m sure their so called Scientists know the truth, but who really cares when you have a phoney message to sell to the delusional pollies and dummies?
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CLIMATEGATE season 2 series4…….
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For those new to this site, Observatory Hill Sydney was given considerable coverage (I think) about 3 years ago.
Someone can search it up and post a link or 2 or 3.
The Google Earth Pro photo is dated 8/21/2017 (August).
It doesn’t appear to me that the solar panel was there.
Your eyes may give a different answer.
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IIRC it was removed from the ACORN set because it was so manifestly corrupted with urban warming problems.
Absolutely amazing that it still gave us some 330 days in a row below 30C (or whatever it was).
PS.. I suspect the solar panel was only temporary, … for whatever reason. 😉
It would be interesting to know if it is still there.
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They are still using and publishing data from Observatory Hill.
http://www.bom.gov.au/places/nsw/sydney/observations/sydney—observatory-hill/
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Yep, and even after the immense urban development from many km around, especially to the west where the “really hot” day usually come from…
… still we get nearly a whole year below 30C !
Quite remarkable !
(I might be wrong about it being removed from the ACORN data though, just something I vaguely recall.)
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Fortunately, we have a robust political opposition that will pursue these matters, don’t we?! … waiting … waiting … still waiting …
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We are all here, what are you waiting for DD? Oh, you actually thought someone paid by the taxpayer might say something? No, there is no opposition outside of this here hotel.
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Professional conjurers (incorrectly called “magicians”) use smoke and mirrors in their tricks.
Smoke and mirrors is too obvious for the tricks of the BoM.
So instead of a mirror to reflect heat onto the thermometer, they use the next best thing, a solar panel.
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Of course Twiggy and his former mate Brookes + Gorebull BELIEVE that so called GREEN hydrogen will save cities like Sydney from their terrible CC and help to stop the oceans from boiling.
BUT it looks like their GREEN hydrogen is another first class bummer and won’t stop Sydney harbour from evaporating either. sarc.
If their endless trillions $ wastage wasn’t so serious we could all go and get pissed and have a good laugh. If only.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/01/22/hydrogen-will-not-save-us-heres-why/
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Hopefully all the nitrogen fertilizer imports will be replaced first as a result of Twiggy’s efforts
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For those BoM employees reading this…we know some of you do….
Do you feel ashamed of yourselves?
Or don’t you care – you are just happy to serve time in a secure lifetime job as an over-paid and under-worked public serpent that sits down at your desk every morning and says “it’s only 17yrs, 259 days until I retire”….?
The only thing you have to worry about at work is your correct gender pronouns and making sure the temperature measurements go in the required direction…
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I’m sure I’m not the only one who thought it was suspicious that on that day it just went over by enough to stop the record breaking cool spell .
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And here’s the temperatures at 30 minute intervals for Saturday (Jan 21st).
21/08:00am 17.6
21/08:30am 18.4
21/09:00am 19.3
21/09:30am 20.8
21/10:00am 21.7
21/10:30am 22
21/11:00am 22.4
21/11:30am 24.2
21/12:00pm 23.7
21/12:30pm 24.4
21/01:00pm 24.2
21/01:30pm 24.9
21/02:00pm 24.9
Do you notice anything odd between 11:00am and 11:30 am? It doesn’t prove anything but it looks very suspicious.
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Perhaps a cloud passed under the sun and the solar panel wasn’t projecting any heat. Just sayin’.
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Kudos to Craig Kelly for still being a thorn in the side of BOM .
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Go to Google Earth and type Observatory Hill Lookout. And what in that picture is the same as 1909? It backs on to the Harbour Bridge Freeway system!
Even in the photograph above the little solar panel is a laugh when you look at all the buildings in the background for reflection, overshadowing, heat generation.
And the lawn is watered and mowed in a sea of bitumen and concrete and the fact that it is on the peak of a hill means nothing when you consider the heat rising from below. Homogonize this!
What is mad and bad science is the suggestion that these stations are completely unaffected and all this deceit to preserve this idea that the world is warming. I am sure the BOM is under great pressure as the largest inhabited land mass South of the Equator, the Great Southern Land. And if we in Australia showed overally dramatic cooling, as is so obvious in Sydney and Melbourne with half the population, the whole world would be deemed cooling.
Given Sydney has not had a day over 32C in a year, the jig’s up. Global Cooling started some years ago, the simultaneous dropping De Vries cycle and the PDO/AMO cycles as the two cycles which explain world temperatures for the last 250 years.
But you can always blame La Nina. Their super computers cannot predict ocean behaviour which dominates the weather from California to Sydney. It’s the “Get out of Jail Free” card for the BOM. I hope their masters in the WMO and IPCC are happy. So do they.
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[This is off topic. Up to Jo. – LVA]
Meanwhile the Saviours of the World – EVs
Fire Hazard: Norweigen Shipping Company First to Ban Electric Cars on Ferries
January 20, 2023
A Norwegian shipping company bans electric cars on its ferries. According to a risk analysis, such vehicles’ fire risk is too significant. An ocean liner had recently sunk because of it.
The Norwegian shipping company, Havila Kystruten, has banned electric, hybrid, and hydrogen cars from its ferries. After a risk analysis, it was concluded that the risk to the safety of the shipping fleet was too significant. If a vehicle catches fire, the fire can no longer be extinguished.
The risks for ships from the transport of Electric cars (EV) have been discussed since the “Felicity Ace” sank off the Azores, Portugal, last February. E-vehicles on board had caught fire. The fire could not be extinguished. Finally, the colossal ship sank with thousands of electric cars, including Porsche and Bentley “green” vehicles.
Capt. Rahul Khanna, global head of marine consulting at Allianz (AGCS), a marine insurance specialist, explains that the problem with EVs is that lithium-ion batteries in the cars can actually propagate the fire, igniting more vigorously as compared to conventional cars. A single vehicle fire could prove catastrophic.
E-cars are a danger for ship passengers
According to a report by the TradeWinds shipping news service, Havila’s Chief executive Bent Martini said the risk analysis showed that the fire in an electric car required a particularly complex rescue operation. The crew on board could not afford this. Passengers would also be at risk. This is different for vehicles with combustion engines. A possible fire is usually easy to fight by the ship’s crew.
After the sinking of the “Felicity Ace,” Greenpeace also warned against e-cars on ships: “In general, electronic components and especially electric vehicles pose a risk for every transport.”
Firefighters Concerned About EV Fires
January 22, 2023
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I am very surprised at the banning of hybrid cars. They could be discharged before loading. The hybrid part is typically only 16%, the equivalent to 12 liters of petrol for a 80 litre car. You could run on battery only the last 20km to the port and the level could be checked.
And I am equally surprised that no one thinks of the need rapidly discharge fully electric cars like Teslas on demand. Not least for shipping and towing. And in serious crash situations like the one above. They would not be so careless with a compromised fuel tank.
During the recent Hurricane Ian in Florida, the Fire Department chief said there were hundreds of ‘ticking time bombs’ as fully charged electric cars. Surely it would have been a simple matter to discharge all these cars without moving them? But they wait around for a fire they cannot put out.
I think people have to rethink how they deal with electric cars. Emptying a car of petrol is a tricky problem but discharging a battery is far simpler in that you do not have to store the energy.
41
I think discharging a fully charged EV or even hybdrid would be quite difficult in practice.
You would need to have a large resistor bank and fans to cool it and it would take a long time at an acceptable discharge rate (bearing in mind that there are practical limits to discharge rates due to power bus limits and battery longevity considerations).
Assuming a hybrid can be forced to run on battery alone, it could be discharged by driving and then later restarted on petrol/gasoline, but an EV – you still need a bit of juice to drive it on to and off the ferry and to a charging station.
And then, there is extra labour by the ferry operator to check the charge status of these vehicles.
Also, if you have $60 worth of electricity in your Tesla, people are going to be reluctant to just throw it away.
100
The cars in Florida had been stationary for a week or more, some flooded. Even leaving the lights on would have discharged them. Airconditioner, radio, interior lights, everything. Surely the designers of the Tesla can build in an even faster emergency discharge mode? Dumping through the motors for example to reduce the time, battery heating systems on maximum. None of this is possible with petrol cars.
There are likely much faster portable solutions of course, but the Fire Brigade would rather have three trucks pouring useless foam and water on a car for a day or more? Surely they could go around turning the lights on instead of fretting and waiting for random predictable disasters, ‘time bombs’?
And hybrids are all simply switchable to battery. It is a very convenient feature of hybrids. And has been mandated in some cities to protect the fabric of the cities from acids like nitric and sulphuric. Amsterdam has mainly electric cars in the ancient downtown. It is a small city and plans to eliminate petrol cars entirely by 2030.
Petrol cars have a problem when there is a fire and there is petrol leaking and real risk of explosion from volatile fumes, but a battery fire is not an explosive situation. You might melt some lumps of iron but who cares? You are not trying to save the car but you could.
So consider your brand new $130,000 Tesla starts smoking in the garage. What do you do? Panic? Nothing? Call the fire brigade who can do nothing. Call the dealer? Read the user’s manual under smoking. You should immediately discharge the car because you can. Turn everything on at the very least, but also your charging station should be able to discharge too.
An 80kwhr battery fully charged would discharge at 80kw to be flattened in 1 hour. 24 hours means 3.3 kw, a small bar radiator, two kettles. Somewhere in between like 2 hours would be far better than 3 fire trucks hosing the wreck for a day. An electric cooktop element or an electric kettle is about 3kw, so ten of them would be 2.7 hours, to get an idea of the scale of the problem, 20 kettles would be 1.3 hours and the fire brigade could keep filling them while standing around. All that heat turned into steam. And once the car is discharged, the fire brigade can go home. Problem solved.
To allow shippers to check the status of the battery should be a trivial additional task, a dashboard check not an administrative load.
What is needed is a change of thinking. None of these are actual problems or at least problems which could not be solved. The proposal is to ban all electric cars, which is draconian.
And if discharging your Tesla is going to mean you can catch a ferry, that is going to be a legal requirement, even if it wastes $60. It’s a better solution than banning them completely. Personally I would suggest reducing the charge to 10%, reducing the level of the problem. Again easily checked by anyone. It’s on the dashboard like a petrol gauge.
None of this is possible with petrol cars or it would be a shipping and crash requirement too. But you can wash petrol away with fire hoses, so it is quite a different problem. Electric cars are a great idea and they are here to stay, but they have different problems to petrol cars. And no one is thinking it through.
52
That would be a great solution for the firebrigade. A series of 30 heater elements as in kettle bases or 90kw in a tank and keep the water flowing from firehoses, which would suit their equipment. Generally less than an hour to discharge the biggest Tesla.
Some of those new GM trucks though are monsters with batteries 4x the size at 2 tons for the battery!
For such monster batteries it would be critical to be able to mechanically separate the batteries say into 100kg units as the batteries are clearly not flammable, so letting 10% of the battery destroy itself is far less of a problem.
That would work for domestic cars too, reducing the problem x 10. You might have to buy a new battery but it is better than a new car.
I am sure the engineers at Tesla and Audi and Honda could come up with many solutions. Often it takes lawyers to make them do it, the predators of the business world who inadvertently keep us safer.
30
While a discharged battery is probably less likely to go into thermal runaway due to a internal short, once the battery has reached a critical temperature and thermal runaway begins the battery state of charge doesn’t matter much.
The electrolyte decomposes exothermically, reacts with the electrodes and releases flammable gases.
The energy released during this process can be several times the stored electrical energy in the battery.
40
Unsafe at any speed – remember that? do I have to say Ralph Nader?
10
Battery cells are wired in series. If one cell in the string of cells is damaged or has a problem then discharging all the other cells in the same string through the damaged cell is very dangerous and will likely trigger a fire in the damaged cell that may not have happened had the discharge not been attempted. To discharge the pack safely would require a high current connection to each individual cell. Thousands of them. You also have the problem with what is called a “flat battery” is not actually flat at all it just means it has reached a low enough state of charge that going any lower could damage it. Could easily be 10-15% remaining in your flat Lion battery. If you were to truly flatten the battery then it will be totally stuffed.
Unlike Nicad and NiMh Li batteries have very delicate and fragile charging and discharging characteristics.
50
“A Norwegian shipping company bans electric cars on its ferries. According to a risk analysis, such vehicles’ fire risk is too significant.”
Or to put it very simply, an electric car with a flat battery is not a fire risk at all.
32
The shipping company probably doesn’t want a ship load of those either?
20
I know the feeling.. I’ll lose this link by the time an open thread comes up. Sorry Jo-
EU introducing insect powder into food this week- ONE company has monopoly supply for 5years!
https://www.postdiscus.com/2023/01/from-january-24th-european-union-allows.html
00
It’s an interesting panel. It isn’t a portable fold up one like a Bluetti, that they use to charge portable battery setups. Is it still there?
https://www.bluettipower.com.au/products/bluetti-ac200max-home-battery-backup
30
I’ll bet it’s gone now !
20
I wouldn’t.
Even if most people knew it was there, they wouldn’t understand or care, including th e BoM.
30
Our hottest ever day 50.7 degrees at Oodnadatta tweaked hotter by BoM’s ACORN series
http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=7078
enjoy
60
I knew farmers who up to 1960 had weather stations on their property. They were supposed to inform the bureau of readings at specific times.
This was not as important to them as running the farm. Times were often guessed and sometimes had been missed and estimates submitted.
In those days politics was not running the bureau.
30
Greg Hunt was such a good government minister wasn’t he? Blocked a proper investigation into BOM when Science minister. Oversaw the biggest experimental medical trial in Australia’s history with very questionable results and couldn’t even put a face mask on properly. ( not that they mattered anyway). A real representative of the people. Maybe we should hold him accountable in some way. Oh, that’s right, he left politics, how convenient.
250
I would expect nothing less from someone loyal to the WEF. He’s not even ashamed to admit his former employment status.
110
The Linos in Victoria want to make him the President of the Victorian State Branch of the Liberal Party 🙁
60
Greg Hunt cut his political teeth in December 2013, as the Environment Minister in the newly elected Abbott coalition govt, leading the coverup of the Chris Turney “Ship of Fools” debacle down in Antarctica.
90
Ross, I wrote something very similar as a comment in The Australian – Rejected.
Here’s the comment.
And Hunt, who approved the use of the vaccine as the only treatment allowed, has fled the coop.
60
Their so called climate change BS can be tested again and again.
Their ABC yapped about the terrible, unprecedented rajnfall and flooding at Fitzroy Crossing, but Ken Stewart checked the rainfall at the nearest rainfall gauge at Fossil Downs and found a big decline in rainfall since 1942 or 82 years ago.
Sliggy also tried to play Devil’s advocate, by asking about times of zero to low rainfall, but so far Ken is correct. Check out the last graph at the link. BTW he also intends to check some Aussie cities for historic rainfall.
https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2023/01/19/extreme-weather-events-1/#comments
80
BTW I should’ve added that the highest rainfall peak was about 1985 to 2000. See the link above.
50
Does 0.1 degrees C higher set a new record, or is it just lost in the noise?
In Sept-Nov last year, WUWT published my 3 part essay asking the BOM just this question. How far apart for 2 temperatures to be “different”? (Tom Berger co-authored Part 3)
Part 2 of this essay had over 800 comments, several times more than usual, but there was no resolution. I emailed BOM an invitation to join in, but they did not even acknowledge my email.
People should read this essay. Sydney Observatory is used many times for examples of what is wrong with data and interpretation. For example, Tom found that a whole month of temperature data from one year was cut and pasted into another year. Once might be excusable accident, but it happened twice, same original data from one year pasted into two more, different years, so that to me conveys deliberate intent. This is what is described as raw data, not adjusted in the style of ACORN-SAT.
Geoff S
170
The Bureau of Mistakes?
80
Mistakes you say ?
40
I believe it’s actually a dwarf lemon tree that identifies as a solar panel, which makes more sense than the temperature data from that site. 😉
40
Please keep in mind that UAH satellite temperatures over Australia show no warming trend for 10 years 7 months to now.
Look at the strong cooling from 2016 to now. I say strong because over that 6 1/2 years the equivalent cooling rate is 30 deg C per century. People are scared of a warming rate of 2 deg C per century, or less.
Geoff S
http://www.geoffstuff.com/uahjan2023.jpg
130
This chart from 2016 intrigues me.
(blue lines are graphical only)
If we add the data to 2022, the patterns would seem to continue.
Might be interesting to investigate further, (eg links to El Nino/La Nina).. but I am busy with other things. 🙂
51
https://geoffstuff.com/uahjan2023.jpg
Like Feynman said.
60
The timing-coincidence ratio of this sensation demanding event is somewhat suss.
70
Ok, so now the record is 30.11C. I doubt it changes anything. Where are the error bars on the old data? Half those temperatures were recorded in Farenheit anyway. And on thermometers with an accuracy of 0.1C.
There is a desperation to deny cooling. The coldest year in over 136 years still stands. It’s like the claim the world is heating after all the calculations mean an increase of an incredibly small 0.001C. It’s high farce. Global Warming desperation by the BOM/IPCC and their friends on the left is producing nonsense.
130
And I remember the very hot summers we used to have in Melbourne. Every day from now until the middle of February over 30 and often over 40. It was cruel to send children (I was one of them) to school. No one could study. We just survived the boiling days, the bitumen paths melting under our feet and surfaces too hot to touch. Summer was hell then. And we are supposed to think the place has warmed up? No, it is much colder.
100
The year 1883 was unusual, similar to now, but obviously this is just a coincidence. It started off cool and didn’t get hot until Xmas.
https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/sydney/year-1883
70
Speaking of Jolly Odd.
Where is Tim Flannery (of the overflow) ?
I don’t know where he are… ?
Perhaps he has drowned in the Murray whilst trying to get to the Loxton Tree of knowledge ?
80
I understood his house was literally on the banks of the Hunter River, sand at the front door. I wonder how that rapid sea level rise is going? In fact every rabid promoter of rapid sea level rise appears to have bought sea side real estate. And none have reported flooding.
50
You are always reliable for editorial assistance. His former home was at Coba Point on the Hawkesbury. He had a public argument with Ray Hadley about it some 12 years ago. The house was above any flood line. He now lives safely in Manly.
26
May have been the Hawkesberry TdeF.
10
For the record I just added the screen capture of the half hourly data on Jan 18th at Sydney Observatory. See the update in the post.
90
Thanks for this important contribution to climate science.
110
Snide today GA? Or is met data a bit too scary?
130
As usual, GA has absolutely nothing to contribute.
And absolutely no counter to facts…
Of course they/them are bitter and twisted.
100
My question would be:
-Is that panel connected to anything?
Forgive me as I did not read all 100+ comments if already asked.
30
If it is there for the purpose suggested by Kelly and Jo there is no need for it to be connected to anything. It is simply acting as a reflector of heat energy onto the Stevenson thermometer housing.
80
Good question – I thought it wasn’t connected. It just appeared to be leaning against the green post – and it bent some of the plants back. Also I’ve never seen a fixed solar panel installed directly sitting on the ground. But with everything locked up I couldn’t get a good look to see if it was actually connected.
80
So it might have been sitting on the grass waiting to be installed? Is in still there? If not, how many days was it sitting there and how could it materially affect the annual average?
12
Just make it up as you want to.
Ignore the reality.
It only needed to affect one day.. and the INTENT is very obvious.
And where do you think they were going to install the solar panel.
See what silly suggestions you can come up with. Outdo yourself 😉
00
Never mind the solar panel. What about the proximity of a sodding big building within a few metres of the Stevenson screen, and the vegetation sheltering it from cooling breezes?
About as fraudulent as recording the “highest temperature eveh” in the UK last summer, recorded at a MOD airfield from whence Typhoon fighter jets are operated.
70
Never mind the solar panel. What about the proximity of a sodding big building within a few metres of the Stevenson screen, and the vegetation sheltering it from cooling breezes?
About as fraudulent as recording the “highest temperature eveh” in the UK last summer, recorded at a MOD airfield from whence Typhoon fighter jets are operated.
10
Seems to me that there’s still a record in play here.
As Jo posted :
” Sydney reached the longest cold streak for 140 years, and it looked like it might become the longest ever. But then a few days ago, after 331 days of cool weather, temperatures reached the magic 30.2C* at Observatory Hill Sydney ending the newsworthy cold run. ”
To me that says Sydney has also had a record run of 331 days of less than 31C, and that the current streak is continuing now. Still pretty cool for our summer, and likely to persist into the record books.
One way to play the numbers game against them.
Cheers
Dave B
60
We all need to sign up for this. Climate and mental health! If nothing else, it’ll be good for a laugh!
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/the-summit-on-mental-health-and-climate-change-tickets-459654939297
10
Hmm, interesting, certainly.
But, if the reflection of the sun was bounced onto the weather station – certainly plausible – then wouldn’t you expect a sharp increase in temperature when that happened? Followed by an equally sharp decrease when the reflection was not hitting the station?
Because that’s exactly what is NOT happening according to the data provided. It’s a steady increase to the max, then a steady decrease from the max, no spike at all.
So, nope, that solar panel is not reflecting heat onto the weather station.
00
Not at all. The solar reflection would start on one side of the Stevenson Screen and sweep slowly over a couple of hours across the screen. It would produce a “natural looking” warming bump.
It all depends on exactly what the 3D angle was on the solar panel. If it was not aligned exactly due East West but tilted towards the West the warming bump would occur just after midday.
10