JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Tuesday Open Thread

9.4 out of 10 based on 11 ratings

343 comments to Tuesday Open Thread

  • #
    William

    I see Paul Oosterhuis has had his registration suspended by the NSW Medical Council. He is appealing.

    320

  • #
    Peter C

    Not good,

    I hope the courts can protect his rights.

    270

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Mark Latham has found a legal loophole for those who don’t get vaccinated but want to go to restaurants and the footy etc, his video can be found on his Facebook page but here is the link to a form that once filled out and sent back it blocks the right of anyone from asking you your vaccination status .

    https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/organisations/health-professionals/forms/im017?fbclid=IwAR1Fw0NyccEmSl3XszzWmWlp2TuIRpegP94Dc-QBAqmBjtPGSq6AUWNFwMA

    130

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Further evidence you don’t need a long neck to be a goose …

    ScoMo granted Father’s Day travel exemption

    https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/scott-morrison-granted-travel-exemption-for-fathers-day-dash-to-sydney-on-vip-jet/news-story/8b9da9a61c5724e61f4a9054a6d01858?amp&__twitter_impression=true

    The link came with this comment:

    “Thinking of every person who’s had to say goodbye to their dying family member over zoom”

    Scotty from marketing, there’s a phone call for you from head office …

    110

    • #

      If you believe in “Lockdown” theory and practice, then you must accept that some key workers ..(Police, doctors, Fire brigade, etc, ) have to have exemptions !
      I suspect you could class the Prime Minister of the country a “key worker” ?
      I have no respect for our current political elite,….. but i have even less respect for this kind of crying over the petty details !

      1212

      • #
        Travis T. Jones

        I was thinking about the fossil-fuelled jet damage to the environment, (please, won’t somebody think of the children? -Mrs. Lovejoy, the Simpsons), but, you do bring up a good point about the voodoo flu.

        Scotty from marketing can always get a job at the MCG moving goal posts.

        120

      • #
        Hanrahan

        I suspect you could class the Prime Minister of the country a “key worker” ?

        A politician MUST live by their own rules, be seen to live by them and be seen with a happy face while complying.

        Besides, a “key worker” exemption does not include the kid’s soccer game if other parents don’t have the same privilege.

        200

      • #

        Police doctors fire brigade etc have exemptions to travel for work (not wear a mask and a few other things as needed) not to travel interstate to see their kids.

        73

        • #
          Mantaray

          Have to agree with Gee Aye on this one.

          Should Qantas have special flights for all those fire-fighters, coppers, hospital orderlies (and politicians, of course) to visit rellies living overseas for Christmas as well, Chad?

          BTW: This is not to say I accept that the SARS-CoV2 virus exists outside science fiction outlets such as the MSM, but once an invented pretext is used to harm the 95% of the nation, at least our “betters” could pretend that we’re all in this together!

          00

      • #
        Stoichastic

        an exemption to go see his father for father’s day?

        Seriously?

        50

        • #
          Strop

          No, not seriously. His father passed away a couple of years ago.
          What he did was go home for the weekend, from Canberra to Sydney.

          I don’t have a problem with it because he hasn’t imposed the restrictions on us. So it’s not hypocritical.
          I do question tax payers funding a private jet for him to do that though. If he paid for it himself then good luck to him being able to go home.

          10

          • #
            Mantaray

            The shyte is that he asked the ACT Govt to make an exception for him. upon his return to Canberra.

            Bearing in mind that even in the darkest hours of WWII, the pommy King and family remained in Buckingham Palace and let the krauts know they were there, you’d have to say that Scotty is a self-entitled shirker and cowardly scumbag to let dhis subjects suffer “alone”….while he partied.

            The peasants: “We cannot visit our kids”

            King ScoMo; “I’ll visit mine…for you.”!
            !

            10

            • #
              Strop

              The peasants: “We cannot visit our kids”

              That is a ridiculous exaggeration for 99.9% of people with dependent aged children.
              King ScoMo went home for the weekend and did what most of the politicians do regularly and what most parents do every day. Go home from work to their kids.

              He wasn’t going off to some other house to see his dad. He went home.

              Sure, I couldn’t visit my father on father’s day … or vice versa. But we don’t normally live under the same roof.

              There is a case right now where some 9 year old kid has been separated from his parents for several weeks due to a state restriction. But that shows how dumb that state premier is for not allowing the kid to go home. It doesn’t mean ScoMo is a goose for going home when he’s allowed to.

              00

    • #
      James Murphy

      A surprisingly large number of people have been granted travel exemptions as they are “key workers”, including international FIFO travel for some oilfield personnel. Others in the oil industry were granted exemptions to travel between states. for example, those working in the Cooper/Eromanga basin in QLD, but living in SA were always allowed to travel because it is via charter jet. the SA people are supposed to self isolate when back at home.

      Presumably it’s the same for FIFO workers in mines.

      00

  • #
    David+Wojick

    A new study with a very low CO2 climate sensitivity of just 0.5 degrees! Milloy posted the whole journal article on his JunkScience website:
    https://junkscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/10.11648.j.ijaos_.20210502.12.pdf

    Woohoo

    221

    • #
      Strop

      Sensitivity of 0.5 degrees for a doubling of CO2 from 400 to 800ppm.

      So what does that mean for an increase from 290 to 400ppm?

      10

  • #
    Tilba+Tilba

    a form that once filled out and sent back it blocks the right of anyone from asking you your vaccination status .

    I’m not sure it quite does that … I think the form just regulates an individual’s relationship to the AIR, and vaccination providers. It doesn’t mention third-parties, such as restaurant managers.

    117

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Im assuming it would work this way , how would a Police officer prove you did or didn’t have a vaccination without a passport and that information is blocked to the state if this form is filled out.
      Your medical information is private after all .

      191

      • #
        Forrest Gardener

        Quite so Robert, but the onus will be on the individual to positively prove compliance. And there will be no way to prove compliance without disclosing part(s) of your medical history.

        That is always the crack authoritarians use. It’s for your own good!

        90

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Forrest that proof thing works both ways , if what Latham says is correct it effectively blocks anyone from legally asking the question . One thing I am sure about is this will end up being a Lawyer’s picnic.

          110

          • #
            Forrest Gardener

            Sounds like something the civil rights people would be onto in a flash doesn’t it? Or at least it would if the civil rights people actually gave a hoot about civil rights.

            Disclaimer: my professional experience as a trial lawyer suggests that judges can contort the law to produce any desired outcome.

            120

      • #
        Tilba+Tilba

        how would a Police officer prove you did or didn’t have a vaccination without a passport and that information is blocked to the state if this form is filled out.

        The form is about your relationship to the AIR and vaccine providers – I don’t think its reach goes beyond that. I expect the reality will be that you will need an app on your phone saying you’re fully vaccinated, in order to get into a restaurant, nightclub, or sporting stadium.

        I don’t think filling in that form will have any impact on that process.

        110

        • #
          Strop

          If an app on a phone becomes the only way it will exclude some people.

          I only recently got a phone that would be capable of such an app. To supersede a very old smart phone that had ceased to accept current apps quite a while ago.

          I know a few people who still don’t have a smart phone and need to manually sign in at QR code places.

          70

          • #
            Tilba+Tilba

            If an app on a phone becomes the only way it will exclude some people.

            Perhaps they could add a code “CV” to your Medicare Card – everyone has one I expect.

            01

          • #
            Ted1

            If a restaurant requires an app on my phone it won’t get my custom.

            70

            • #
              James Murphy

              This is one reason why they cancelled the process in Russia after only a few weeks. people did indeed vote with their feet. Unfortunately, here in France, there is not the same level of anti vaccine passport sentiment, despite protests about it every weekend. Cafes/restaurants are bursting at the seams. It’s great for the businesses that have suffered badly, and need the money, but it is also a big step backwards in terms of keeping private information private.

              As someone said in a YouTube video recently, one of the things that bugs authoritarians is for people to realise that they can be supportive of the “vaccines”, while rejecting the need to show their papers to everyone who asks.

              40

      • #
        Broadie

        I believe you are missing the point Rob. These databases are incredibly hard to maintain, hence you are continually being forced to update your details. Our dear leaders should be as scared of a hacker as they should be of an out of control bio-weapon. Imagine if someone hacked their MAGA list and added their name. Door knocked down and imprisoned without bail in no time.
        The way the Totalitarian regimes work is to make an example of and publicly destroy the life of someone who chooses to be non-compliant, (See Peter Ridd and Paul Oosterhuis) that way the useful idiots feel empowered to dob in the non-compliant and no real effort is required from those in power. They can head off to the Black Sea Dacha or their Hawkesbury River farm. The sad thing for the useful idiot is that after the initial thrill of bullying their neighbours and reaping reward, their privileges make them a target for a jealous useful idiot above them in the hierarchy. Jordan Petersen discusses the confusion of the bullies who end up in the camps of the Gulag Archipelago.

        Here is another comment on Reddit on a similar understanding:

        I’m about 150 pages into the 3rd volume. One of the main things I’ve come to understand is just how intrinsic the Gulag system was to society in Soviet Russia. It wasn’t merely a punishment, it was a way of forcing citizens to experience what communism was all about. “Sacrifice yourself to the state, or else.” And so it makes sense that the Organs were given quotas on the amount of people to arrest per month, because as far as “Uncle Joe” was concerned, the more people that were arrested and forced into hard labour, the better (roughly speaking…). As for whether you were guilty or innocent, that didn’t matter – guilt is a bourgeois concept, after all!

        I remember reading somewhere in the book that certain ardent Communists even imprisoned themselves as they could think of no higher aspiration. That gives an idea of how politically motivated the Gulag system was (that and the fact that “politicals” were given longer sentences than common criminals).

        So do not worry about lists. No one will be secure if we continue to surrender our liberties. Or as we say G L to G A. [Snip]AD

        120

    • #

      Hmm!

      I”m almost tempted to think of how well Bob Hawke’s Australia Card was, umm, so universally accepted.

      Tony.

      210

      • #
        Graeme#4

        As one who gave a presentation to the Australia Card committee back in the 80s, I’ve always been interested in what eventually replaced it. It turned out that government departments were already – illegally – sharing personal information across departments. So I’m the end there wasn’t much need for a Card when the government agencies knew everything about you anyway.

        120

      • #
        Tilba+Tilba

        I would have liked an Australia Card myself … so long as it was really useful – if it meant I never had to fill in another form (either online or on paper) ever again. So it would let me do everything from register my car, do my tax, order a pizza, file a Medicare claim, or join a library.

        But alas it didn’t happen.

        04

      • #
        Graeme+P.

        But good ol Hawkey didn’t run an 18 month fear campaign first, I expect this to be accept with barely a ripple from the masses.

        40

      • #
        Ted1

        Yes. I remember that I voted No every time I present my driver’s licence to have lunch at a club.

        20

  • #
    max

    The Australian state of Victoria will “lock out” unvaccinated people from participating in the economy, Premier Dan Andrews has announced.

    https://www.rt.com/news/534078-australia-victoria-vaccinated-economy/

    Australian health chief Dr. Kerry Chant says that COVID will be with us “forever” and people will have to “get used to” taking endless booster vaccines.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/aussie-health-chief-covid-will-be-us-forever-people-will-have-get-used-endless-booster

    land of the brave and free???

    250

    • #
      robert rosicka

      This is why we call him Taliban Dan .

      200

    • #

      Max, well done conflating two fake news stories into one. Both with incorrect quotes and commentary that is out of context appended to other quotes. One of them doesn’t even know who Kerry Chant is.

      227

      • #
        John+R+Smith

        I was very interested in the Andrews statement.
        It appears to be a vid of a press conference.
        Please explain the how the quotes are “incorrect”.
        And what is the context?
        Is it your contention the clip is faked?

        200

        • #
          Mantaray

          John. Gee Aye is not here to clarify ANYTHING. It is here to muddy the waters as much as possible, whereby it hopes to convince passing viewers (=lurkers) to get vaxed. Crucial to this is to excuse fascists like Dan by making out they are not fascists.

          Standard disinformation tactics, so why worry about it?

          150

          • #

            I am much better organised than I thought. Thanks for the ego boost.

            311

            • #
              Strop

              No so well organised though Gee Aye, to answer John about how the Dan Andrews story was fake and the quote incorrect.
              The video in that story has Dan Andrews saying exactly what the written quote states. The Video seemed to have a good enough lead in to give it context and not just a single line grab.

              30

      • #
        clarence.t

        View the video of CCP Dan, GA.. preferably before commenting. 😉

        200

      • #
        robert rosicka

        The Clip of Taliban Dan from the weekend he does say “Locked out” when talking about the health system , now if this is a slip of the tongue or not given his past performance we can be sure this is what he meant .

        170

        • #
          Serp

          Of course he means it. The slavering jackal has a psychotic need to deliver pain to those who disagree with him, he’d call it defiance.

          It’s my guess that Brett Sutton hasn’t been able to explain to the premier that being vaccinated ain’t what it’s cracked up to be and Dan sincerely believes only the unvaccinated can pass on the infection having missed the memo from Tedros while on his three month impromptu sick leave nursing his sore ribs and lamenting the loss of his mates from the consulate since Canberra cancelled the Belt and Road deal.

          40

      • #
        Ted1

        Didn;t read the quotes. Did see Dan promising “harsh restrictions”.

        00

    • #
      Forrest Gardener

      Politicians love sounding tough. They reverse course as soon as public opinion changes.

      On other news I discovered this morning that there is an “opposition” in the parliament of Victoria. Apparently they changed leaders. For all I know there are several members of parliament who collectively form this opposition.

      50

      • #
        robert rosicka

        All they did was revert back to the last leader that was asleep till the last election then couldn’t understand why they lost , Tim Smith would have been a better pick .

        50

      • #
        Ronin

        I didn’t think Danistan had an opposition, where have they been.

        30

        • #
          Serp

          They mysteriously ran dead in both of the previous elections; there’s no reason to suppose next time will be different.

          10

    • #
      Tilba+Tilba

      I accept what Dan Andrews is saying … when everyone eligible has had ample opportunity to get vaccinated, and they choose not to, then he is not going to lock down the economy just to protect the unvaccinated, or to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated.

      Case numbers and hospitalisations among the unvaccinated will not “count” as an emergency, I expect.

      Sounds fair enough to me. Dan Andrews is doing a difficult job really well in my view. No-one calls him “Taliban Dan”.

      And who would be the people to complain loudest if state governments did not do enough to contain surges, waves, and outbreaks? Or had loose borders?

      029

      • #
        Yonniestone.

        Are you f%$#^n serious?

        200

      • #
        robert rosicka

        You need to get out more Tilba , Taliban Dan from Victoriastan is very common .

        160

      • #
        OrignalSteve

        Looking at the Israeli Dept of Health dashboard, when you look at cases and thier vaccination status, what is strinking
        is the reality that from govt figures – 2/3 of the cases are vaccinated, 1/3 arent, which is consisten across all age groups.

        https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

        70

      • #
        John+R+Smith

        What is the fate of people “locked out” of society and the health care system?
        “Locked out” a new euphemism for crimes against humanity.
        If the the new Overlords fail in their reconstruction, this clip will live in infamy.
        Mr. Andrews words will condemn him, Australia, or both to history.
        Good luck all.
        We’re going to need it.

        40

        • #
          John+R+Smith

          Oh, and I’m sure Tilba and Dan are all about ‘inclusion’.
          Hysterical.
          Dark humor, the bright side of hysteria.
          Gaia help us.

          60

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I found this amusing….the eastern suburbs are where the smart, wealthy people live.

        The smart ones dont touch this vaccine.

        I recall seeing even in hospitals, the hospital would try and get staff to get all jabbed up…….no chance…..

        I just cant imagine why smart people ( probably a lot of doctors etc ) who wouldnt want “Jab-em-Galdys” clot shot…..very odd…. /sarc

        https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/vaccination-rates-in-sydney-s-east-and-inner-city-lag-20210907-p58pin.html

        “The number of people coming forward for vaccination in Sydney’s eastern suburbs has slowed in recent weeks, despite more than 80 per cent of people having received a dose in parts of the city’s west.

        “The lowest rate of first dose vaccination coverage in metropolitan Sydney was the inner city and south, which includes the City of Sydney local government area as well as parts of Randwick and Bayside, where just under 65 per cent of people aged 15 and over have received a first dose.

        40

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Beware the models….( models…..not facts, notice… )

        Welcome to the planet Gullible

        https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/tough-restrictions-and-vaccination-have-saved-thousands-of-lives-in-sydney-modelling-shows-20210907-p58pkk.html

        “The modelling suggests the harsh restrictions in south-west and western Sydney and half a million extra Pfizer doses have thwarted more than 580,000 cases and 5808 deaths between June and December.

        “The 530,000 Pfizer doses sourced from Poland alone prevented an 24,267 infections and 254 deaths, as outlined by the modelling simulating the 12 areas of concern and the rest of Greater Sydney.

        Smoke….fire?

        https://www.smh.com.au/national/australia-news-live-covid-19-cases-continue-to-grow-across-the-nation-new-zealand-prepares-to-relax-some-restrictions-20210906-p58p9t.html

        “Media Watch debunks claims Sydney COVID-19 patients in video were actors

        Um……

        20

      • #

        Total and utter rubbish Tilba Tilba. I happen to pay tax in six figures each year so I think that I and my family can call on the medical system if I need to .

        Please apply your logic to all other conditions. Smokers, drinkers, the careless, the obese, those who take part in sports & get injured. Your logic is utterly flawed and its very sad we have so many having thrown out any ethics they once knew in an effort to demonise those who choose not to be vaccinated for a condition that the vast majority are at no risk from.

        When ADE takes hold, when the vaccinated immune systems are wrecked and they are falling over due to other conditions, when the severe adverse reactions from endless boosters & vaccines overload the health system then will you keep on with your dangerous illogic?

        40

  • #
    Brenda Spence

    Now we know the vaccines are leaky and down to a low efficacy in places like Israel, 19% after 6 months at last count;
    that boosters are going to be needed after as soon as 5 months;
    that vaccinated people are catching the virus with large viral loads;
    that they are ending up in hospital or dead;

    then surely the herd immunity at 80% the authorities were seeking, is not going to eventuate.

    And as herd immunity is the carrot for vaccination, and vaccine passports are the stick, the public has been sold a pup. So many people beleve that they are getting the jab so that society will open up again and life return to normal but will it?

    Maybe whens antivirals become freely available and doctors are educated in their use.

    340

    • #
      Tilba+Tilba

      that boosters are going to be needed after as soon as 5 months;
      that vaccinated people are catching the virus with large viral loads;
      that they are ending up in hospital or dead;

      I’m not certain stats are on your side. Firstly – how many fully vaccinated people are not contracting the virus in the first place, who otherwise would have had they not been vaccinated?

      And stats from US states that collect them, indicated that the overwhelming percentage of people who are not vaccinated are the ones winding up with severe cases and dying.

      Of course a vaccinated person might be obese, have diabetes or other serious health issues, and therefore have a very negative experience. But that isn’t a sign that the vaccines are ineffective; the person would almost certainly have had a very serious case or died, whatever their vaccination status.

      The evidence still indicates that the vaccines work in preventing serious cases and deaths.

      02

      • #
        clarence.t

        “vaccines work in preventing serious cases and deaths.”

        Initially.

        There is some evidence of ADE becoming apparent as the efficacy drops off.

        Hence the number of infected vaccinated in Israel

        If ADE does turn out an issue, the vaccinated are in for a world of hurt !

        Wait and see what another 6-12 months of this untested pseudo-vaccine reveals.

        31

    • #
      Klem

      Rubbish, governments have no intention of ever giving up this new totalitarian power. They said ‘two weeks to flatten the curve’ and we can return to normal, then they said 60% vaccination rate to return to normal. Where I live we’re now at 73% full vacination but our government says the new target is 85% to return to normal. In a few weeks governments will require a third shot to return to normal, and that 73% full vaccination rate will fall back to zero and we start all over again.

      How many times do we need to learn the same lesson?

      81

    • #
      RickWill

      Israel has 63% of the population vaccinated. That is 17% down on what is required for herd immunity with the delta strain. R0 with normal mobility is around 4.

      The 63% they achieved was enough back in February to beat alpha with mobility 50% down. They will need to get to 80% vaccinated to achieve herd immunity with delta and normal mobility.
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/israel?view=infections-testing&tab=trend&test=positive_tests
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/israel?view=vaccinations&tab=trend
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/israel?view=social-distancing&tab=trend

      All the countries with vaccinations above 70% have infection rates below 1.

      Australia will easily meet the 80% vaccination required for herd immunity.

      In fact globally, the infection rate is now under 1:
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/global?view=infections-testing&tab=trend&test=positive_tests
      With relatively high mobility only 7% down on pre-Covid days:
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/global?view=social-distancing&tab=trend

      The vaccinations are doing exactly as expected.

      USA is bumbling along with only 52% of the total population vaccinated:
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=vaccinations&tab=trend

      Now that ScoMo has sorted the vaccine supply, Australia will roar past USA and probably UK. The Australian population are highly pro-vaxx. Australia has the highest uptake of all child vaccines.

      013

      • #
        OrigjnalSteve

        Looking at the Israeli Dept of Health dashboard, when you look at cases and thier vaccination status, what is strinking
        is the reality that from govt figures 2/3 of the cases ar vaccinated, 1/3 arent.

        As a general startement, with jab 3 now out, and likely 4 not far off, it will only be amatter of time before the Mareks disease scenrio plays out and we will have this endless roller coaster of lockdowns.

        That said, eventually people will in desperation tell the powers that be to shut up, and just hnad over the ivermectin.

        At that point its entirely possible they may release bioengineered bug No. 2 , to start knocking people over and quell the unrest.

        If as I suspect its a binary system, bug No.2 will work well with bug No. 1 in terms of lethality….

        40

      • #
        Will+Gray

        Israel vaccination
        One jab 81.9%.
        Two jab 73.9%
        Three jab 27.8%
        Fourth jab ??.?%
        Endless jabs.
        Catch covid get real wild immunity.

        50

      • #
        BruceC

        All the countries with vaccinations above 70% have infection rates below 1.
        In fact globally, the infection rate is now under 1:

        Really? According to the data I have …

        Malta (80% fully vaxxed) – reproduction rate 1.01
        Singapore (76%) – reproduction rate 1.61
        Uruguay (73%) – reproduction rate 1.16
        Belgium (70%) – reproduction rate 1.09

        … and globally, it’s only just under 1 at 0.95.

        Our World in Data

        30

      • #

        With these “vaxx and their spreading you never get herd immunity, but escape variants.

        30

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Brenda:
      You missed another problem – the risk of blood clots from a jab is low (preached by my doctor) but if you multiply jabs you surely multiply the risk of blood clots.
      Also, as noted by mobihci the hospital data for the UK (in Sunday Unthreaded) the death rate of vaccinated Covid cases is much higher than for the unvaccinated Covid cases. (There is a benefit if you are over 60 and vaccinated but how long does that last?)

      110

  • #
    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      So if this is true, why did geothermal only start to have a measurable impact in the last 50 years, Surely it and the volcanoes are part of the geography down there, and have been for a long time.
      Or could it be that something else, like say AGW, is the catalyst?

      132

      • #
        clarence.t

        “why did geothermal only start to have a measurable impact in the last 50 years”

        It didn’t. You really think volcanoes only just started?

        You really think glaciers weren’t melting, just because no-one was looking ?

        You do know the Antarctic has been cooling for the last few hundred years, don’t you?

        And yes, there has actually been an uptick in seismic activity as well.

        https://i.postimg.cc/rsrmj4Jr/Seismic-vs-temperature.jpg

        You could chose to ignore that as well if it helps.

        AGW ? .. no such thing.

        You are welcome to produce scientific evidence that it exists.

        280

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          so global temps and global seismic are somehow linked with a 2 year lag? Best send this to David – he is working on a paper linking solar activity and global temp, also with a lag. Or Coincidence

          015

          • #
            clarence.t

            Science and data doesn’t mean anything to you, does it. !

            Now, where’s that evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2 ?/

            Still waiting !

            20

          • #
            el+gordo

            There is decade lag, the hypothesis is still on track but there is only one year left. Temps have to fall below the Spencer line and stay there for a few years.

            20

      • #
        Raven

        Or could it be that something else, like say AGW, is the catalyst?

        Well, it could be, Pete.

        As soon as someone provides the proof of your hypothesis, I reckon we’re good to go.
        Usually, one shouldn’t expect absolute ‘proof’ where science is concerned, and I get that, but after 30 odd years of UN politics via the IPCC and Trillion$ of dollars spent on activist “scientists™”, then, yes, I want proof.

        210

      • #
        Tilba+Tilba

        So if this is true, why did geothermal only start to have a measurable impact in the last 50 years, Surely it and the volcanoes are part of the geography down there, and have been for a long time. Or could it be that something else, like say AGW, is the catalyst?

        Indeed – the melting of glaciers over the last 50 years are not just a part of long-term geothermal activity. That is just background.

        It’s similar to the broader CO2 argument – people claim that solar minimums and other very long-term effects are the only thing in play and that CO2 levels are not a cause.

        Some claim that we have a new Little Ice Age “imminent”. This all ignores the heating of the planet over the last 150 years, in line with the extremely rapid release of CO2 from fossil-fuel burning by industrial society.

        You can’t confuse very long-term climate change with what is happening on the scale of one or two centuries, or even decades in some cases. The ten hottest recorded years have occurred in the last 15 years – it has nothing to do with solar activity or even El Nino.

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        • #
          el+gordo

          ‘ … it has nothing to do with solar activity or even El Nino.’

          What about oceanic oscillations?

          Otherwise a good essay, I’ll conjure up a counterpoint.

          20

        • #
          clarence.t

          The slight but highly beneficial warming is not caused with the very beneficial atmospheric CO2 increase

          There is no scientific evidence that increased atmospheric CO2 causes warming

          You have proven that with your total inability to produce any such evidence.

          And yes, human civilisation has benefited greatly from both the warming and from the use of fossil fuels.

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        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Tilba+Tilba:

          The last interglacial (the Eemian among other names) is recognised as having been warmer than the current (Holocene) one.
          Little bits of evidence, like ocean levels 6-7 metres higher than present (due to ice melt), isotope ratios in ice cores and in drill cores, and fossils of lions, giraffes, elephants and hippos recovered in the Thames Valley. Rinos in Yorkshire.
          Yet the CO2 level according to the ice core results says that the CO2 level was a maximum of 285 p.p.m. and, according to NASA the suns output doesn’t vary much at all, so what caused that warmth?

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          • #
            Tilba+Tilba

            Yet the CO2 level according to the ice core results says that the CO2 level was a maximum of 285 p.p.m. and, according to NASA the suns output doesn’t vary much at all, so what caused that warmth?

            Well, the Milankovitch Cycles are what immediately come to mind.

            But I just reiterate my position – while there are long-term cyclical conditions (such as Milankovitch), and shorter-term cycles like the Little Ice Age, it seems to me they are not that relevant when we’re talking about – the period since say 1870, and the CO2 getting to 420 ppm. And it is the rapidity that matters.

            In fact it seems pretty obvious to me that 420 ppm is driving a warmer planet, and we’re not done yet – but I concede there is a lot of opposition to that perspective.

            04

            • #
              clarence.t

              “In fact it seems pretty obvious to me that 420 ppm is driving a warmer planet”

              Yet you can provide absolutely no scientific evidence of that scientifically unsupportable nonsense. Someone told you, so you just believed.

              Seems obvious to me that Snow White shouldn’t have accepted the apple from a stranger, then where would the fairy-tale be. !

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            • #
              Disco Stu

              You just admitted that the Little Ice Age was real and then went on to say it had no impact on the warming afterward. If you have a cold period, than naturally you must have a warm period to follow. So how much of the warming since the low point of the LIA is due to CO2 and how much to something else? At what point did the CO2 take over or was it CO2 that pulled us out of the LIA? Where is the correlation between temperature and CO2 because other than a very short period in the late 1970-90s, they do not correlate at all (think hiatus, early 70s inversion etc). Where is the evidence???

              Also, lets not mention the data alteration of the temperature record to try and retrofit the data.

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            • #
              Kalm Keith

              “but I concede there is a lot of opposition to that perspective.”

              Very conciliatory.

              Almost heart warming.

              10

          • #
            clarence.t

            I’m still waiting for an explanation of how tree stumps 800-2000 years old are found under retreating glaciers in several parts of the world.

            MWP was obviously significantly warmer than now.

            I wonder how much warmer would it need to be where that glacier is now, for trees to actually grow again !

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            • #
              Kalm Keith

              Clarence.

              That last paragraph is brilliant.

              There’s ice there now and “just” receding.

              During the growth of those trees, by definition, there was no ice; therefore during the growth period it Must have been warmer.

              Are we allowed to think that or perhaps even say it?

              20

        • #
          clarence.t

          “it has nothing to do with solar activity or even El Nino.”

          Denial of actual data and science doesn’t help your cause.

          Presenting actual scientific evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2, might.

          We can wait… and we will wait.. a long time for you to produce any.

          30

        • #
          TedM

          “The ten hottest recorded years have occurred in the last 15 years” Only after artificially cooling the past.

          50

          • #
            clarence.t

            The current global temperature is actually cooler than 90-95% of the last 10,000 years.

            Only the LIA cold anomaly was colder than now.

            20

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              Again, an irrefutable statement of fact that any geologist could affirm; the oceans are currently at a seven thousand year low; no arguments.

              They’re at this level because ice is Accumulating.

              Even if there’s mild melt up north, it’s getting bigger and bigger down South.

              Ice fields accumulate more water ice when it’s cold.

              10

        • #
          clarence.t

          ” and that CO2 levels are not a cause.”

          Waiting some evidence that it is.

          Waiting, waiting !

          Maybe you could prove the “Big Bad Wolf” exists at the same time, if you huff and puff enough. ?

          20

        • #
          el+gordo

          The Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation is driven by external forcing.

          ‘Despite the differences between the two AMO reconstructions, it is evident that the unambiguous link observed between AMO variability and the combined solar and volcanic forcing after AD 1775 is not present before AD 1750.

          ‘As outlined above, we conjecture that the imprint of the external forcing on the AMO is propagated throughout the North Atlantic region via the AMOC. If this proves correct, the weaker AMOC that characterized the LIA would imply a weaker response of ocean circulation, and hence imprint on North Atlantic SSTs, to external forcing.

          ‘It is thus possible that the strength of the AMOC may have modulated the significance of the imprint of variations in external forcing on the AMO throughout the last 8,000 years during which the AMO signal can be traced.’ (Knudsen et al 2014)

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        • #
          el+gordo

          Pacific Decadal Oscillation is another with solar influence.

          ‘The development of positive or negative phases of PDO has a major influence on the expression of both Schwabe solar cycles and ENSO in the sediments of Effingham Inlet.

          ‘ENSO displays a very different period that varies according to the parameter measured, during the cool PDO conditions that existed prior to 1976-1977 and the warm conditions that prevailed after.

          ‘The phase of PDO similarly impacts the expression of 9-12 year Schwabe solar cycles, as they dominated the Effingham Inlet record during the negative PDO conditions that existed prior to 1976 and were suppressed during the following positive phase.’ (Patterson et al 2013)

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          • #
            el+gordo

            Not to mention the NAO …

            ‘Our results demonstrate that solar activity influences NAO variability over decadal timescales. The NAO reconstructions based on proxy records from mid-latitudes display significant positive correlations with the sunspot number, but this relationship is only found up to a certain solar activity threshold (number of sunspots < 42), after which the NAO index appears to be less influenced by solar activity. On the contrary, the impact of volcanic eruptions on the NAO is less clear, with disparate percentages showing some dominant positive NAO values after large volcanic eruptions.' (Hernandez et al 2020)

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          • #
            el+gordo

            Then of course we have ENSO ….

            ‘Of course ENSO is not exclusively under solar control as it is a very complex phenomenon, and thus we shouldn’t expect that the patterns are always reproduced. However it is clear from paleoclimatic data (Moy et al., 2002), solar physics (Leamon & McIntosh 2017), Modeling and reanalysis (van Loon & Meehl 2008), frequency analysis (White & Liu 2008), and the present analysis, that solar activity has a clear strong effect on ENSO, probably being its main forcing.’ (Javier / Climate Etc 2019)

            00

          • #
            el+gordo

            In summary, Tilba’s claim that ‘it has nothing to do with solar activity or even El Nino’ is clearly a fallacious argument.

            10

      • #
        yarpos

        Probably the same reason they didnt notice a million + “endangered” Adelie penguins. Sometimes it takes science a while to work things out, or just get lucky.

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      • #
        TedM

        Because it wasn’t being monitored more than 50 years ago PF.

        10

      • #
        Mark Kaiser

        Or could it be that something else, like say AGW, is the catalyst?

        Are you suggesting increased CO2 triggers volcanic activity? Really?

        Or are you saying that increased CO2 triggers “something” that triggers “something” that triggers “something” that triggers volcanic activity.

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    • #

      el G. The paper makes no note of temporal changes in ice flow or melt. It produces compelling evidence linking flow rates and ice thickness with geothermal activity and predicted secondary effects e.g basal sliding. It doesn’t once mention climate or claim that climate isn’t or hasn’t had an effect.

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      Graeme#4

      As expected, they are talking about West Antarctica, the thin 1000 km long appendage stuck onto the main body, East Antarctica. It’s well known that any melting in West Antarctica has no bearing on the amount of ice in East Antarctica, and it’s also well known that there are a substantial number of volcanoes underneath the edge of West Antarctica.

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    • #
      Ronin

      It’s melting on the bottom, not the top, like it would if there was any globull warming.

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    max

    Australia Has Fallen

    Something is rotten down under.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8KScb7XjzE&t=164s

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    • #
      Serp

      PeterS likes posting this one. Helen Dale is one hell of a character who started out as the “fraudulent” author Helen Demidenko and was researcher for Senator Leyonhjelm but I don’t entirely buy her convict and gaoler thesis about Australia’s development.

      All the really bad stuff started with the ousting of Tony Abbott before he could begin the cleanout of BoM and go on to do the ABC and in the meantime Al Gore had suborned Clive Palmer’s votes and we were truly on the skids awaiting the horrors Turnbull always delivers.

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    max

    Governments’ COVID ‘scaremongering’ has allowed ‘fear to win over truth’: Alan Jones

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DkWcbPPw18

    60

    • #
      Tilba+Tilba

      Australian state governments have to get tough precisely because right-wing muckrakers like Alan Jones talk a lot of mistruths, and unfortunately he finds an audience among the gullible and misinformed.

      This is the reality: politicians are elected, and elected pretty regularly. And they are not stupid – they know that their political futures and hold on power depend on doing everything that is required to “defeat” the pandemic, but not a bit more.

      The unvaccinated are entitled to their choices, and shouldn’t be vilified. But also, state premiers are NOT going to go into lockdowns forever, and risk political blowback, if it proves that it is only (or overwhelmingly) the unvaccinated who are continuing the outbreaks.

      They know this very well – and so does any sensible observer and commentator.

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    Don+B

    “The Corona vaccines don’t work very well. Ubiquitous statistics showing that the vaccinated enjoy substantial protection against serious illness and death seem wrong. In some cases they are probably manipulated. They are certainly confounded by the different testing regimes to which the vaccinated and the unvaccinated are subjected. Once you forget the specifics of efficacy and look at the broader picture, it is easy to see where we are. The vaccines have not reduced Corona mortality compared to the same time last year in any jurisdiction that I know of. Countries with high vaccination rates are now seeing the same number of deaths, or more, as they had at the beginning of September 2020. Time is a flat circle.”

    https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/vaccine-failure-and-the-way-out?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=email

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      Tilba+Tilba

      Texas has seen nearly 9,000 COVID-19 deaths since February. All but 43 were unvaccinated people.

      Preliminary data shows 99.5% of COVID-related deaths in Texas were among unvaccinated people, according to the Department of State Health Services.

      Vaccines seem to work to prevent serious cases and deaths – overwhelmingly so.

      https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/21/coronavirus-texas-vaccinated-deaths/

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      Eighteen months out with many millions being infected and with a WIDE range of outcomes and trillions spent, we should have an impressive database from which bell curves of outcomes of every conceivable risk factor can be drawn.

      It doesn’t exist and we still have NFI of the major risk factors. The co-morbidities list is crude at best and unchanged in a year.

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  • #
    beowulf

    Satire alert.

    The Federal Government has ordered a snap lockout of the nation’s residential and commercial buildings on the advice of the nation’s Chief Engineering Officer (CEO), Professor Bernice Cumbersome. Following the recent Surfside condominium collapse in Florida, Australia’s CEO has announced that the risks are now far too great to allow people to stay in their homes. The snap lockout will come into effect from midnight on Tuesday.
    Etc etc
    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2021/09/staying-outside-keeps-us-inside/

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      Homes of critical and essential workers, plus those of visiting movie stars, football players and their girlfriends would be cleared first and the occupants allowed back before anyone else. But to avoid discrimination the homes of all lower-status Australians would only be re-opened at the completion of the entire program.

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    • #
      Tel

      We are all out of it together.

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    OldOzzie

    A Generation of American Men Give Up on College: ‘I Just Feel Lost’

    The number of men enrolled at two- and four-year colleges has fallen behind women by record levels, in a widening education gap across the U.S.

    There’s an interesting story in the Wall Street Journal today about the declining enrollment of men in 2 and 4-year colleges. This gender enrollment disparity is a trend that has been happening for a while now, but at this point the divergence between men and women is becoming pretty dramatic.

    At the close of the 2020-21 academic year, women made up 59.5% of college students, an all-time high, and men 40.5%, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of enrollment data from the National Student Clearinghouse, a nonprofit research group. U.S. colleges and universities had 1.5 million fewer students compared with five years ago, and men accounted for 71% of the decline, the Journal analysis found.

    This education gap, which holds at both two- and four-year colleges, has been slowly widening for 40 years. The divergence increases at graduation: After six years of college, 65% of women in the U.S. who started a four-year university in 2012 received diplomas by 2018 compared with 59% of men during the same period, according to the U.S. Department of Education.

    In the next few years, two women will earn a college degree for every man, if the trend continues, said Douglas Shapiro, executive director of the research center at the National Student Clearinghouse.

    The situation has become bad enough that some colleges are already offering more slots for boys in an attempt to bring the enrollment back into parity. The WSJ says this is “higher education’s dirty little secret,” i.e. schools are now practicing a kind of affirmative action for men.

    There’s a chart included in the story which breaks down the admittance of men and women by both race and income. What the chart shows is that white men come in nea

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    • #
      Tel

      They will be far better off, both mentally and economically, by learning a trade.

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        Lance

        When I entered the college of Engineering in 1975, there were 1,200 of us all in the various fields.
        Upon graduation, there were 168 of us. Total. In all fields.

        Most of the people who did not complete the course work would have been better off in a Trade.

        Trades allow people to achieve their financial and personal goals without enormous debt and provide very necessary skills to society. I’ve been a welder, pipe fitter, carpenter, and mechanic and often think I’d been better off to have stayed in a Trade. Different politics and BS in Trades, but they can mostly walk away from it. That’s a bit of Liberty I’ve envied for decades.

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        Tilba+Tilba

        They will be far better off, both mentally and economically, by learning a trade.

        I agree – outside of a few very essential “non-professional” fields that require a university degree (teaching, nursing, a wide range a of para-medical fields), I think so many young people would do better in a trade.

        A lot of universities provide a diversified (and fun) educational experience, but so many of the jobs at the end of it are not that essential.

        But perhaps those US college figures mostly reflect the fact that women are catching up – maybe. MsT has been a primary school teacher for forty years – the number of men in her profession has effectively dropped close to zero.

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        • #

          Tilba+Tilba
          September 7, 2021 at 1:46 pm ·

          I agree – outside of a few very essential “non-professional” fields that require a university degree (teaching, nursing, a wide range a of para-medical fields), I think so many young people would do better in a trade.

          What do you mean “non professional ….teaching, nursing, paramedical..”..?
          Are you suggesting they are not professionals ?
          ….because they certainly are !
          However, i do not believe you should require a “degree” to be any of those .
          Comprehensive training and the correct aptitude, yes, but 4 years of left wing indoctrination is no benefit to them and actively prevents many fully capeable applicants filling useful roles.

          20

          • #
            Tilba+Tilba

            What do you mean “non professional ….teaching, nursing, paramedical..”..? Are you suggesting they are not professionals ?

            I could have worded it better. I meant that they are not “The Professions” as the term is usually understood: Architecture, Law. Medicine, Dentistry, Vet, Engineering, etc.

            I strongly support teachers, nurses, and paramedics studying a 3-4 year degree. I don’t see how anyone could disagree with that.

            And as I said previously, university is fun, and if you can hack the work, I would recommend it.

            03

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Even in the days of five year apprenticeships an energetic young man was doing quite well by his 21st. Could marry and move into his own [mortgaged] home a couple of years later.

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      • #
        Vicki

        Yes Tel.

        My grandson has just dropped out of 1st year Commerce at Macquarie Uni (actually deferred). He is now thinking about transferring into Agricultural or Earth Science Studies. Or else a trade.

        He has had 2 super smart (& gorgeous) girlfriends, who are excelling at uni, while he has struggled with his studies. He dropped both of them, sadly. I have wondered whether the ease with which they excelled was instrumental in his decisions.

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    • #

      ….At the close of the 2020-21 academic year, women made up 59.5% of college students, an all-time high, and men 40.5%……..

      Wow !..hang on there a moment. !…
      You mean to say there were no “trans gender” , “Non specific” , “ undecided”, etc etc students ?
      Only Women and Men ?
      That is very “Old School “ !

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      Chris

      I think these discrepancies also apply in Australia. There are now more women studying law than men and more women studying medicine than men.

      50

    • #
      Gary+Simpson

      Confucius say – ‘Never do a job which can be done by a Chinaman.’

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    clarence.t

    Yippee, finally science had caught up with what’s actually causing the Thwaites Glacier in Antarctica to melt ! 😉

    https://climatechangedispatch.com/scientists-now-blame-geothermal-heat-for-melting-antarctic-glaciers/

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    OldOzzie

    Young Communist Unsettled To Find Hammer, Sickle Represent Physical Labor

    BOULDER, CO—According to sources, local high-school senior and avowed radical communist Kazden McChitterly is “a bit unsettled” after discovering the hammer and sickle from the insignia he proudly wears on his t-shirts and knit hats represents hard physical labor.

    “Wait– that’s an actual hammer? Like the kind you swing?” said McChitterly nervously. “Like– you have to use it while doing really difficult work? I don’t know about this.”

    Witnesses say he grew even more uncomfortable when he found out about the sickle. “I thought it was just a weapon used to gloriously cut down our capitalist foes!” he exclaimed after discovering it was actually used to gather grain for the government during 20-hour workdays in the bitter cold.

    “I’m not sure about this communism thing anymore,” he said. “Sounds kinda hard.”

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    Simon

    News Corp Australia will end its long-standing editorial hostility towards carbon reduction policies and advocate for the world’s leading economies to hit net zero emissions by 2050.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/rupert-murdoch-newspapers-24-hour-news-channel-to-champion-net-zero-emissions-20210905-p58oyx.html

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      PeterS

      That’s actually very good news. I look forward to seeing agreements by both major parties to start building nuclear reactors ASAP before the world gets too hot.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Also, people like Andrew Bolt better pull their fingers out and stop being fools. They need to wake up to the fact the war on CAGW has been lost. We now have to play their game and convince everyone that the nuclear option is the only one to ensure we can continue to reduce our emissions significantly without wrecking our economy and industry (what’s left of it).

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        Steve of Cornubia

        You say that like conservatives have any say in the matter. Or ANY matter … for that matter.

        We don’t matter.

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      • #
        Steve of Cornubia

        You say that like conservatives have any say in the matter. Or any matter, for that matter.

        You see, we don’t matter.

        22

      • #
        el+gordo

        ‘They need to wake up to the fact the war on CAGW has been lost.’

        The war is just coming to fruition and we’ll prove beyond a shadow of doubt that CO2 doesn’t raise the temperature.

        You must have missed my memo on nuclear power, Australians don’t want it.

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        • #

          There is no “War on CAGW”….
          There is just a bunch of delusional F’wits who believe they can control the planets climate by destroying society as we know it.
          Let them sweat it out trying until they realise their efforts have no impact.

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    • #
      yarpos

      Rupert is probably long Uranium, nett zero is a must and soon!

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    • #

      A news corporation change it’s mind, so what ? That poves what ? Nothing 😀

      00

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    OldOzzie

    Behind the plunge in the price of iron ore

    Robert Gottliebsen

    The iron ore price is now down almost 40 per cent since its peak in July and our largest miner BHP has been smashed more than 20 per cent. This is a major event for both the Australian economy and the share market so it’s important to understand what has caused it and where we are likely to go.

    And in a bizarre twist to the events causing the iron ore price fall, money is pouring out of mainland China into Hong Kong where apartment prices are skyrocketing.

    Australian apartments have received some benefit from the money exodus from China into Hong Kong but currency restrictions hold back the money tide.

    While the western world is undertaking massive stimulation, China is implementing a series of measures to stop property speculation and end the massive China property boom.

    This requires substantial cuts in development and some areas of industrial activity which has contributed to the big fall in the iron ore price — an event which is creating great joy among the Australia haters in China.

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    • #
      yarpos

      And yet Australians continue to buy overtly Chinese products. MG joined to top ten selling cars last quarter, people still happily buy chinese branded appliances. Sorry, threaten my country and you dont get my $ when I have a choice.

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      • #
        Annie

        The trouble is there is often no choice between Chinese-made and going without. The latter is preferable if you can manage it but some necessary machinary might need an essential spare part.

        70

        • #
          Tilba+Tilba

          Indeed – wander through Bunnings, K-Mart, or any clothing chain store … if you reject all Chinese-made products you might leave empty-handed.

          62

          • #
            yarpos

            Nonsense really thats just the lazy argument to avoid even trying or to put down those who do. The other one is “oh , but it will have Chinese components!”

            Of course sometimes you dont have choices but like most things the choices only appear if you look for them. The point is to avoid or minimise. Examples:

            Stove, dishwasher, hob bought in recent years all EU
            Small AC units at my daughters and my wife craft room both Taiwan
            Fasteners (screws, nails, anchors) I dont buy in my town as its all Chinese, I go to Bunnings and I have a choice of Vietnamese and Taiwanese and US
            Paint Australian
            Automotive filters , dumped Ryco after decades as all Chinese. Now trialling Sakura from Indonesia
            Tyres generally buy Korean or Indonesian
            Tools generally prefer Taiwanese or US or EU. The sadly demised Masters had a good line of quality Brazilian tools. Bought a Swedish handsaw (Bahco) in Bunnings last month.

            There is a lot out there, you just need the will. For some it doesnt matter, to me it does.

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            • #
              Tilba+Tilba

              There is a lot out there, you just need the will. For some it doesnt matter, to me it does.

              Some of us don’t have a fervent hatred of China, and we don’t believe everything in The Epoch Times either. LOL

              China is a truly significant trading partner – and has led to both your and my prosperity in its own way. I don’t think of them as the enemy. That’s fear-mongering (and often not a little racist as well).

              04

            • #
              RickWill

              The kitchen appliances might be EU brands but have you checked where they were actually made? Not what the labels states but where you source the parts.

              Provide a list and of what you think are EU brands.

              Taiwan IS China.

              This is about BAHCO:

              Bahco tools are primarily made in Sweden, France, and Spain. Some of the tools are made in China and it appears that there were some sockets that were made in the United States.

              The may be branded for an EU country but they are likely made in China.

              Volvos are not only made in China but the parent company is Chinese owned.

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              • #
                yarpos

                Of course i checked and as i said you do what you can to minimise and avoid , it isnt as black and white as you woukd like to paint.

                As you point out in your own note a list of brands is irrelevant you need to look at products. You can beleive the Taiwan statement if you wish, i dont. The saw is proudly stamped made in Sweden.

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              • #
                yarpos

                thanks for the manufacturing and branding tutorial also.
                I only worked for EU and US multinationals for 30 years, so it was great to have the blanks filled in.

                30

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          Hanrahan

          I bought a small non-stick, induction pan y’day for $10 at Woollies. $80 RRP from Robins Kitchens eternal closing down sale = $40. That money matters to me.

          20

        • #

          Annie
          September 7, 2021 at 12:25 pm · Reply
          The trouble is there is often no choice between Chinese-made and going without

          Sometimes Annie, but in the case of things like Cars, TVs, even the oft quoted Solar panels,…….there are many alternatives to Chinese sourced
          ( did you know we make Solar panels in Australia ?)
          More often it is the old decision maker….PRICE.. that twists the decision to Asia sourced !
          ….We are a fickle nation .

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          • #
            Tilba+Tilba

            More often it is the old decision maker….PRICE.. that twists the decision to Asia sourced ! ….We are a fickle nation.

            We are a rational nation … all that over-priced obsolete stuff from Europe and the US – they’ve been ripping us off for decades. I have two immediate neighbours who built new homes, and the Miele appliances they installed at great cost are rubbish.

            The Chinese are good at all this stuff.

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          GF1

          Hello Annie the [Snip]AD buy 80% of the actual fruit our farm produces, we also have sheep and cattle, I don’t know how much of our beef or lamb goes to China but last time I checked they took about 25% that Victoria produced. So I buy Chinese and Asian products before European if there is a choice.

          30

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      Rowjay

      No problem OO – taken from here

      Australia Coal Price is at a current level of 168.75, up from 151.97 last month and up from 50.14 one year ago. This is a change of 11.04% from last month and 236.6% from one year ago.

      All will be well!

      10

    • #
      RickWill

      it’s important to understand what has caused it and where we are likely to go.

      It would be nice to think that demand for wind turbines was the reason but a primary driver is Brazil coming out of Covid as they achieve herd immunity:
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/brazil?view=infections-testing&tab=trend&test=positive_tests
      That is improving global iron ore supply.

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    Bartender

    UK had to turn on coal power plant to help National Grid cope with low winds.

    So there you have it. The winds blows when it wants, the Sun shines when it wants. Is that called the weather? Finally, the environMentalists come down to why coal is still needed – to balance the system effectively. Welcome to the future of power cuts meaning all dads who spend all their time putting up Christmas lights will throw a wobbly…

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/uk-had-to-turn-on-coal-power-plant-to-help-national-grid-cope-with-low-winds/ar-AAO9Pzb?li=BBoPWjQ

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      PeterS

      Currently, around 21 per cent of Britain’s electricity supply is provided by nuclear power from 15 reactors. There are plans for around a quarter of Britain’s energy to be supplied from nuclear plants by 2025. As the older nuclear plants are retired, new ones will be needed to replace them. In June 2011, eight sites across Britain were chosen as locations for new nuclear stations:
      The eight sites are:

      Bradwell, Essex
      Hartlepool
      Heysham, Lancashire
      Hinkley Point, Somerset
      Oldbury, South Gloucestershire
      Sellafield, Cumbria
      Sizewell, Suffolk
      and Wylfa, Anglesey

      EDF Energy is working on plans to build four new European Pressurized Reactors. Two will be built at Hinkley Point and two at Sizewell, supplying around 10 million homes with energy by 2025. The first of these new plants is expected to be running by the mid 2020’s.
      https://www.energy-uk.org.uk/our-work/generation/nuclear-generation.html

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        Bartender

        Hinkley Point C, currently under construction in Somerset, is the first nuclear power station to be built in the UK for more than 20 years. West Burton A, in Lincolnshire, is due to be decommissioned this time next year. It meant that for the first time since March this year, more than 1.5GW of power for the UK was generated by coal that’s equivalent to 546 wind turbines. In other words, 5% of our power needs requires 546 wind turbines! As regards for the construction several nuclear stations across the UK the plans will be debated and voted on in Parliament. I can’t see the new ones being needed to replace the old ones at least until the next decade.

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        • #

          1.5GW of power for the UK was generated by coal that’s equivalent to 546 wind turbines. ….

          I think you will find that 546 turbines is a slight underestimation…most likely based on NAMEPLATE RATINGS of 2.7GW per turbine
          There is no taking into account the <30% CF of wind generation.
          So, the real number of turbines required for 1.5 GW would be more than 1000.

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          Serp

          If it’s ever completed that is. And then there is Sizewell C if it’s ever started. Now that Boris’s wife is making energy policy all certainty is gone.

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    Lance

    Lord Daniel Andrews (sic)

    Daniel Andrews told Australians they would receive no healthcare unless they were vaccinated for the coronavirus.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/aussie-politician-daniel-andrews-people-not-get-covid-vaccine-will-not-allowed-healthcare-video/

    He’s a bit wrong in the head. Nutter. Worthless clown.

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      Rod

      I’d bet Andrews and other premiers got a fake shot as a PR stunt just like pollies and fake celebrities worldwide have. Placebos for the rich…and I have a few videos proving it.
      When will the doctors & nurses here in Oz stand up to the nonsense and lies?
      They have moral, ethical and legal OBLIGATIONS to do so and “do no harm”.
      Can we afford to have the medical profession go down its current path towards zero integrity and trust?
      Only treat the vaxxed – blatant medical apartheid.
      When will the triple-vaxxed turn on the double-vaxxed?
      What happens when we come to the end of the greek alphabet for variants?
      Who will be left to see or care?
      Thought for the day:
      When stupidity hits $50/barrel I wsnt drilling rights to Australian politicians heads.

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      Tilba+Tilba

      Daniel Andrews told Australians they would receive no healthcare unless they were vaccinated for the coronavirus.

      He didn’t say that at all – he said that he would not run a health care system (ie, lockdowns etc) in order to cater for the unvaccinated. If people who could be vaccinated choose not to be vaccinated, then he’s not going to run a protocol to protect the unvaccinated.

      Which sounds fair enough to me.

      Just think about it – all politicians face elections – do you think Daniel Andrews would go to an election saying, “We need these recurring lockdowns because there are still a minority who refuse to be vaccinated”? Of course he wouldn’t – but he did not say the unvaccinated would be refused health services, or even anything like that. Fake news.

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    OldOzzie

    Kevin Rudd ‘can’t recall’ obscenity-filled calls referring to Julia Gillard

    Former prime minister Kevin Rudd has refused to respond to claims that he referred to his Labor leadership rival Julia Gillard as “that f..king bitch” in obscenity-filled background calls to journalist and editors.

    Mr Rudd, who was appearing for a second time before the Senate inquiry into media diversity, has been a vocal critic of News Corp Australia (publisher of The Australian) since he lost the prime ministership.

    During the hearing, Liberal senator Alex Antic ­referred to an article published last year by The Australian in which David Penberthy, the former editor of Sydney tabloid The Daily Telegraph, recounted that Mr Rudd “habitually referred to Australia’s first female prime minister as quote, ‘that f..king bitch’, in obscenity-filled background quotes to journalists and editors, tearing her (Julia Gillard) down”.

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      Serp

      Rudd shares Richard Nixon’s compulsion for seasoning his diatribes with expletives of the type deleted from transcripts, a completely involuntary psychopathology akin to coprolalia or Tourette’s syndrome. On a visit to Australia some years after his narrow loss to JFK Nixon was interviewed by Ray Taylor on TV and showed up as a surprisingly personable fellow making it completely understandable that he won in 1968.

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    OldOzzie

    Kevin Rudd ‘can’t recall’ obscenity-filled calls referring to Julia Gillard

    Former prime minister Kevin Rudd has refused to respond to claims that he referred to his Labor leadership rival Julia Gillard as “that f..king [email protected]” in obscenity-filled background calls to journalist and editors.

    Mr Rudd, who was appearing for a second time before the Senate inquiry into media diversity, has been a vocal critic of News Corp Australia (publisher of The Australian) since he lost the prime ministership.

    During the hearing, Liberal senator Alex Antic ­referred to an article published last year by The Australian in which David Penberthy, the former editor of Sydney tabloid The Daily Telegraph, recounted that Mr Rudd “habitually referred to Australia’s first female prime minister as quote, ‘that f..king [email protected]’, in obscenity-filled background quotes to journalists and editors, tearing her (Julia Gillard) down”.

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      yarpos

      If you are using obscenities all the time as your normal mode of speech its not surprising that he may not remember. The big deal seems to be that at some point in time a female was the target. That would be equality. Welcome to the world.

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    Robber

    The continued extension of emergency powers in Victoria is a violation of basic human rights and freedoms. During a State of Emergency, the Chief Health Officer is given broad powers to detain people, restrict movement, close schools and businesses. Overnight, new rules can be imposed that circumvent normal parliamentary scrutiny.
    On what basis can an “emergency” continue for over 18 months?
    What justification exists, other than the mantra that “people will die” without regard for costs versus benefits?
    We no longer live in a democracy when parliament does not approve every new regulation.
    Amazing that an arbitrary line drown on a map becomes the Palaszczuk Parapet to rival the Berlin Wall. Purity on one side, poison on the other.
    Australians all let us rejoice, For we are one and free – except the lockdown States.

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      Tilba+Tilba

      We no longer live in a democracy when parliament does not approve every new regulation.

      I think you will find that thousands of pieces of legislation – all around the Western world – delegate regulatory authority to various officials in the bureaucracy. They still have to operate within the Act that empowers them.

      The problem is – in a pandemic situation where the virus is aerosol-based, and very easily transmitted – you have to have strict restrictions in order to prevent a total blowout. Even if death-rates are low, when you get a huge swath of the population infected, then deaths or serious illness become very high – and medical services can be overwhelmed.

      Do you think politicians like being in this situation? I expect they hate it as much as the rest of us. I suggest this is a public health emergency of some importance … it is not a power-grab by evil politicians.

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        yarpos

        I fully expect some of them love it and its their wet dream come true (looking at you Dan), others will loath it and all the spectrum in between , so what? So, what is the tide mark for this onerous responsibility to kick in?

        NSW seems totally relaxed to the point of it not even being newsworthy that 900+ a year die of influenza + 1000s hospitalised (similar numbers for pneumonia). So what is the level where so called concern kicks in? In reality there is no level its just whatever degree of FUD has been sown into the politicians (eg, the UK Ferguson model)

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    And because you asked for it, here is today’s ACT covid update.

    19 17 22 16 11 8 19 16 30 9 14 21 26 13 12 13 23 12 18 32 15 11 19

    No trends emerging and community cases about the same – ie about the same as previous update.

    Stats don’t link number of tests with number of positives – possibly a lagging negative effect though not significant. This is predicted if a particular day has a high number of cases (see the two 30+ values) that produce a large number of contact sites. Testing goes up in the following days as people at the exposure sites get tested. Often these sites lead to no new cases so you get a pattern of high numbers of tests with low positives.

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      Whilst raw numbers can appear both good, bad and also misleading….
      Averaging over a week will smooth out the variation and correlation of tests to +ve results.
      This week ACT has averaged 0.65% +vs from their testing.
      For comparison , NSW have averaged 0.98% for the same period.

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      • #

        Hi Chad. I am actually not following what your meaning is here. What is the implication of differences between states and smoothing?

        btw – and I might be misinterpreting you, if you care to look back over all my very boring posts on this topic, I’ve mentioned variation and sampling complexity. I use the average number to simplify my explanation of the statistical analysis (it is an R script – pretty basic but apt). Variation is high but has been as consistent as the average and has so far not gone extreme (single digits to the 30’s over the period in question is a pretty confined distribution for a potential open ended distribution- also it is unlinked to testing numbers).

        I don’t think of noise or day to day differences as misleading, just that there are factors in real world sampling that change and you might not ever have a full handle on everything at play. For instance, early in the ACT schools and their communities were called as close contacts which resulted in very large numbers of tests (students plus entire households) on people who were negative. This produces a much different profile to a week later when none of the testing or contact sites were large institutions.

        Unlikely to respond until tomorrow so no rush.

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          I was simply trying to put ACT s situation into perspective with NSW.
          But just looking at raw daily results can be deceptive.
          10 or 20 cases in one State doesnt sound too bad compared to 1200+ in another, and when the numbers vary significantly day to day or you try to add in the test numbers , it gets complex..
          So i simply suggest taking the total +ve cases for the week, and the total tests for the week ( for each State) and derive a simple ratio cases to tests.
          For the ACT that figure is 130 cases from 20,000 tests,..or 0.65%
          And for NSW it is 9258 cases from 940,000 tests..or 0.98%
          From that it is easier to see that the ACT has a similar scale infection rate to NSW ?
          ……crude and simplistic maybe, …..but it works for me !

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            I agree it is complex.

            I think I see your point though I am not sure. if an outbreak occurs in place A and place B and both start with one person, per capita has nothing to do with it. The virus does not know the city’s population as it starts to spread and, indeed, the size of the city is not a factor in the spread. The difference in test numbers is though connected.

            The ACT has a smaller contained outbreak and is completely different to Sydney’s so I don’t accept the comparison.

            btw if I were to accept the comparison I’d point out that the ACT rate is 33% less than the NSW rate (1-65/98×100)

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              The ACT has a smaller contained outbreak and is completely different to Sydney’s so I don’t accept the comparison.

              ..? Different in what way ?
              It is a smaller outbreak, because it is in a smaller population, but the “ratio” of cases is not as much different (-30%) than NSW…
              ……and much higher than Victoria ! (+50%)
              Again ..just trying to point out that a simple “head count” of cases,
              ACT ..20
              Vic….220
              NSW..1450
              ……..doesnt convey the relative severity of the outbreak.

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                That is not how outbreaks work. They both start with one case and progress from there. According to you a single case in the ACT is the same as 20 suddenly appearing in NSW and that 20 cases 20 in NSW have the same chance of being contained or progressing as 1 in Canberra. Not so.

                Neither has reached any factor in the population that would limit the increase in numbers apart from the fact that the ACT shut things down when numbers were low and Sydney lost control.

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      And today’s update of hard to interpret data

      19 17 22 16 11 8 19 16 30 9 14 21 26 13 12 13 23 12 18 32 15 11 19 20

      about 7 active in community. No change in prognosis from this update.

      Well, one change but no change in that change either. This lockdown was due to end Friday Sept 17. Every day from now where there is no downward trend is increasing the likelihood of lockdown being extended.

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    Rod

    Despite 95% vaccination rate, Cornell today has five times more COVID cases than it did this time last year

    Must be due to the 5% unvaxxed no doubt…

    https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/despite-95-vaccination-rate-cornell-today-has-five-times-more-covid-cases-than-it-did-this-time-last-year/

    It was banned but is back!
    I check it daily. Info and vids you won’t see from the MSM. Look at all those massive protests worldwide..

    https://www.zippylark.com

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      Rod. Convincing as always. Keep it up!

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      Annie

      No chance to see second link, unavailable.

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      Tilba+Tilba

      From Sept. 3 through Sept. 9 of 2020, there were 28,951 COVID tests administered, according to the Cornell COVID dashboard. There were only 59 positive tests, or a 0.2 percent positivity rate.

      In contrast, from Aug. 27 to Sept. 2 of this year, only 27,103 tests were administered, finding 322 positive cases, or a 1.19 percent positivity rate.

      Well for this to have any significance, we need to know how many of the 322 cases recorded this year were vaccinated. The story doesn’t say.

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    PeterS

    I wish more people get with the program. The fight to stop us moving to less and less emissions and instead rely totally on coal has been lost, gone and forgotten. We need to move on. We should follow UK’s example. We have a lot to do to play catch-up with the real world where nuclear energy is not banned and instead widely used as part of the energy mix.

    Taken from Nuclear Power in the United Kingdom

    The UK Guarantees scheme was established in October 2012 to support infrastructure projects seeking finance and investment, and this is being applied to the initial nuclear power projects. The offer of a £2 billion loan guarantee for Hinkley Point C was announced in September 2015, and a Treasury statement then said that the government guarantee “is also expected to open the door to unprecedented collaboration in the UK and China on the construction of new nuclear power stations.” It added: “The agreement also boosts work being carried out under a memorandum of understanding on fuel cycle collaboration signed with China in 2014, which has the potential to leverage UK expertise in waste management and decommissioning as well as support UK growth.”

    In June 2017 a report from the government’s National Audit Office (NAO) said that other funding options for Hinkley Point C should be considered besides the CfD model. It also called for the government to look in more detail at alternative funding methods to the CfD, such as direct state funding or loans, for future new nuclear construction in the UK.

    In 2018 the UK government announced that it was considering a regulated asset base (RAB) model for future nuclear power plant projects as an alternative to CfDs. Under a RAB model, the UK government would provide a plant owner with regulated rates that can be adjusted to guarantee its costs are covered. The RAB model allows the owner of a regulated operation to collect an authorised return on the asset’s value that includes operating costs and profit. It protects the operator of a facility by ensuring that the operator has sufficient revenue to maintain its financial capability over a period. It is similar to the US rate base model but with greater flexibility on the part of the UK market regulator to determine what is ‘reasonable’.

    In July 2019 the UK government published its assessment of the RAB model, which concluded that it has the potential to reduce the cost of raising finance for new nuclear projects, thereby maximising value for money for consumers.

    https://www.energy-uk.org.uk/our-work/generation/nuclear-generation.html
    Currently, around 21 per cent of Britain’s electricity supply is provided by nuclear power from 15 reactors. There are plans for around a quarter of Britain’s energy to be supplied from nuclear plants by 2025. As the older nuclear plants are retired, new ones will be needed to replace them. In June 2011, eight sites across Britain were chosen as locations for new nuclear stations.

    EDF Energy is working on plans to build four new European Pressurized Reactors. Two will be built at Hinkley Point and two at Sizewell, supplying around 10 million homes with energy by 2025. The first of these new plants is expected to be running by the mid 2020’s.

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      Lance

      Hinkley Point B is scheduled to close by July 2022. 10 Months from now.

      Hinkley Point C is supposed to be built and available, but it is over budget, behind schedule, and the absolute key to energy stability in the UK. Wait and see. I’m not sure that C will be commissioned as planned.

      https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-nuclearpower-idUKL1N2I51SE

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        Lance

        The Hinkley Point C reactors are 3,200 MWe. That’s a big part of UK energy. Some 10 Million residential average loads. Let’s hope they get this right, or there will be a huge upset.

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        PeterS

        Well in that case they will join us and their economy will go under. Somehow though common sense might prevail over there given they already have much of the technology. We don’t so that makes it much harder for us to use the nuclear option but not impossible.

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        Graeme#4

        Hinkley C is an outlier amongst new nuclear station builds, and is often used by alarmists to claim that nuclear is too expensive. I believe that a better example is the UAE 5.6GW nuclear plant, which when finished should cost around A$27bn. Given that Aussies currently waste around $7bn annually supporting unreliable renewables, we could have paid for a very big nuclear plant by now.

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    Flok

    In depth interview with Dr Paul Marik on Covid

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkcp04z8pE4

    Timestamps :
    00:00- teaser
    00:35- Guest introduction
    03:42- Dr. Marik’s take on Ivermectin
    09:16- WHO, FDA, Govt, Apollo hospitals opposes Ivermectin
    12:22- Why is Ivermectin discouraged in the mainstream
    14:40- Use of Ivermectin in Indian states
    16:21- what is holding the physicians against ivermectin
    19:09- pharmacies denying ivermectin in the USA
    20:49- myth of scientific & academic freedom
    23:29- how ethical are randomized trials during the pandemic
    26:33- treatment protocol as per WHO
    29:03- Dr. Marik’s take on vaccination
    32:13 mass vaccination & implications
    38:22- precautions against the pandemic
    40:08- future of the pandemic hit world

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      OriginalSteve

      More info on theshots :

      https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/09/07/long-term-covid-vaccine-dangers.aspx

      “A (adenine) and U (uracil) in the third position are rare, and the COVID shots replace these A’s and U’s with G’s (guanine) or C’s (cytosine). According to Seneff, this switch results in a 1,000-fold greater amount of spike protein compared to being infected with the actual virus.

      “What could go wrong? Well, just about anything. Again, the shot induces spike protein at levels unheard of in nature (even if SARS-CoV-2 is a “souped up” manmade concoction), and the spike protein is the toxic part of the virus responsible for the most unique effects of the virus, such as the blood clotting disorders, neurological problems and heart damage.

      “So, to expect the COVID shot to not produce these kinds of effects would be rather naïve. The codon switches might also result in protein misfolding, which is equally bad news. As explained by Seneff in our previous interview:

      ““The spike proteins that these mRNA vaccines are producing … aren’t able to go into the membrane, which I think is going to encourage it to become a problematic prion protein. Then, when you have inflammation, it upregulates alpha-synuclein [a neuronal protein that regulates synaptic traffic and neurotransmitter release].

      “So, you’re going to get alpha-synuclein drawn into misfolded spike proteins, turning into a mess inside the dendritic cells in the germinal centers in the spleen. And they’re going to package up all this crud into exosomes and release them. They’re then going to travel along the vagus nerve to the brainstem and cause things like Parkinson’s disease.

      “So, I think this is a complete setup for Parkinson’s disease … It’s going to push forward the date at which someone who has a propensity towards Parkinson’s is going to get it.

      “And it’s probably going to cause people to get Parkinson’s who never would have gotten it in the first place — especially if they keep getting the vaccine every year. Every year you do a booster, you bring the date that you’re going to get Parkinson’s ever closer.”

      “Immune Dysfunction and Viral Flare-Ups

      “Other significant threats include immune dysfunction and the flare-up of latent viral infections, which is something Mikovits has been warning about. In our previous interview, she noted:

      ……..

      “This means you could see bleeding disorders on both ends. You can’t make enough firetrucks to send to the fire. Your innate immune response can’t get there, and then you’ve just got a total train wreck of your immune system.”

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    M Allinson

    Sorry to have to tell you this, PeterS, but the “climate change” movement is NOT about lowering “emissions” (although it claims that this is the aim), it’s true purpose is to economically and industrially hamstring Western nations like ours to prevents us becoming self-sufficient.

    Thus there is absolutely no prospect of Australia gaining nuclear power stations.

    Now I am sure you think this is a wild claim to make, but I will stand by it because I believe it to be the absolute truth.

    Let’s give it ten years and we’ll see who was right.

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      PeterS

      If you eve reads my previous posts you would already understand I already knew all that. I’m talking from the point of view of playing along with their game to get them to use the nuclear option and get it in their face that renewables is not the answer.

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      PeterS

      Also, you would already know I am a great advocate of new coal fired power stations but the reality is there is no appetite for them in the current environment. So a viable alternative must be found. If the nuclear option cannot be made to be a viable option by convincing the people that it’s not some monster that will burn up the atmosphere or something, then it proves that Australians are still like children in the world stage, and so be it.

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        Tilba+Tilba

        I’m not a huge fan of nuclear power, but Australia would seem very suitable for nuclear power stations – we have the uranium, we have ample remote and stable places for waste storage, and plenty of fairly isolated places with a good water supply to locate the things.

        But even without that – I would think that state-of-the-art gas-fired and quality-coal-fired power stations would seem to be what we need.

        Get a reliable, cheap, and everlasting supply of good electricity, and then we can look at other areas of production & consumption where we can cut our carbon footprint, without hamstringing the place. Seems pretty obvious to me.

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          Graeme#4

          For a start, frak our own gas and use it to power closed-cycle gas plants.

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            Hanrahan

            Closed cycle gas takes too long to spool up so it is only suitable for base load. You use open cycle for peaking.

            Doesn’t Vic have proven on shore gas, maybe near Gippsland? I recall that the water that comes with it is clean enough for agriculture.

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          PeterS

          I agree that gas and coal fired would seem to what we need, and in fact they are but the point I was trying to make, and I apologise for not making it clear, is that those in control of our nation want to get rid of all fossil fuel power generation systems so we can achieve net zero emissions, and boast about it to the world. There are only two ways I can see that happening, one is viable and the other is not. The viable one is nuclear and the one that’s not viable is renewables. It’s that simple. I do wonder why so much of the population can’t see it that way. Perhaps they are too focused on deciding what colour they want to paint the kitchen or something.

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          David Maddison

          and then we can look at other areas of production & consumption where we can cut our carbon footprint,

          Tilba Tilba, why on earth would we need to cut our carbon (sic) footprint? What is the problem?

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            clarence.t

            Reality is that there is no problem at all.

            The atmosphere is still at low levels of CO2 compared to plant needs. Could be a lot higher.

            The more atmospheric CO2, the greater the flow in the Carbon Cycle, and the better for all life on Earth.

            And of course, everyone knows it has no warming effect on the climate, not that it would matter if it did.

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            Harves

            You know that anyone that talks about carbon when they mean CO2 is absolutely clueless.

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              yarpos

              wouldnt go that far, but it is an indicator that if you scratch just one layer deeper in the discussion they are most likely going to resort to personal abuse, as their argument is mantra/meme based not knowledge based.

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      Tilba+Tilba

      the “climate change” movement is NOT about lowering “emissions” (although it claims that this is the aim), it’s true purpose is to economically and industrially hamstring Western nations like ours to prevents us becoming self-sufficient.

      Well, the reality is that most nations – and Australia in particular – rely on vast amounts of trade in all sorts of things. We are self-sufficient in that we can amply feed ourselves, but we are hugely more wealthy than that because we have a lot to trade with other nations.

      And who would have this agenda to deny us “self-sufficiency”, and why would they? Anyone you can name?

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        clarence.t

        That’s odd, one minute you are saying that everything in Bunnings is from China..

        … then you say we are self-sufficient.

        Sorry, but on a manufacturing basis, we are very far from self-sufficiency.

        That would require a whole lot more reliable electricity production than we currently have.

        Yet that reliability of supply is gradually being shut down, just for the sake of the scientifically unsupportable anti-CO2, virtue-seeking agenda.

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          yarpos

          Not often I side with TT Clarence buy he/she/it/they did say pretty clearly the we are self sufficient in that we can feed ourselves. When hungry I rarely go to Bunnings even though some have a cafe these days.

          We will need to move far up the value chain to successfully manufacture. They do in Switzerland, Singapore, Denmark and Sweden so I doubt we are as hamstrung as you make out…..except by government and low ambition.

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    PeterS

    It’s just a thought but I’m wondering if PM Morrison will have the smarts and put to the electorate the choice for us to go down a new path wrt emissions reductions. Make no mistake about it, we are going to reduce our emissions whether we like it or not. I don’t like it but there comes a time when once has to face reality and stop dreaming.

    The two choices are: one, we continue to go down the path of more renewables and effectively nothing else; two, we do that but in to a limited extent governed by the technology that becomes available and at the same time build nuclear power plants. If PM Morrison embarks on a campaign to “educate” the people about the clear advantages of the second option over and above the first one, then he stands as good chance of winning comfortably at the next election, just as Howard did when he took the risk of taking the GST to the election yet he won. It’s worth the risk especially given there really is no other option either party will even attempt let alone push forward apart from the self-destructive renewables only path. In fact, it’s not totally out of the question although extremely unlikely I grant it that the ALP will be sneaky and take up the second option. It would actually be a smart move as it would attract many disillusioned LNP voters and invigorate the ALP to propel it into the 21st century. However, as I stated it’s very unlikely. The ALP are not that smart. Personally, I doubt either party has the smarts or the courage to use the second option. Of course, I could be dreaming and we’ll just plod along letting our coal fired power stations be shut down one by one until the inevitable happens and the whole economy goes under.

    There is one other way but that’s even less likely than the nuclear option. A leader stands up and tells the truth about the emissions reductions scam and simply forces the building of new coal fires power stations regardless of the consequences of breaking out agreements to reach our targets, but I simply can’t see it happening.

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    Mark+Allinson

    I am sorry to have missed your previous posts on this topic, Peter.

    I must say I admire your optimism.

    My view is that, under the commandments of powerful unseen players, Australia is on the road to a Venezuela-like condition.

    Personally, I don’t see much difference between either wing of the Globalist ALP/LNP UniParty.

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      Hanrahan

      One can HOPE the LNP may change. You KNOW the ALP never will.

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        David Maddison

        Hanrahan, I believe the LNP is UTTERLY beyond all hope.

        Indeed, I think Australia is beyond all hope.

        I agree with Mark. We are heading to something akin the Venuzuela.

        The current COVID “crisis” has revealed something that most of us were unaware of and that is a very deep, totalitarian and fascistic streak among the Australian leadership both of politicians and their senior public serpents.

        Australia started as a free range prison colony and will finish as one, although without the free range component.

        It is the ultimate fulfilment of Leftist infiltration of all our institutions (which has also happened in other Western countries). It is Rudi Dutschke’s “Long March Through the Institutions”.

        I think Australia has collapsed more rapidly than most because of more extensive apathy than in many or most countries and a media and academia that are more thoroughly indoctrinated with Leftist ideology

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          PeterS

          I tend to agree. I was only trying to offer some ray of hope albeit a waste of time. Sorry everyone for trying to be open and honest, it was a momentary suspension of reality on my part. My mistake. Don’t let me suggest something that might help avoid Australia from becoming like Venuzuela. As I suspected Australia is not read for nuclear energy, probably never will be going by where it’s heading. The only way I can see us adopting nuclear is if the CCP took us over. Of course they would also build coal fired power plants for obvious reasons. Just goes to show how stupid Australia really is, and I’m not just talking about our politicians. The MSM and education facilities have a lot to answer. Please resume the decline.

          10

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          Hanrahan

          I think Australia has collapsed more rapidly than most because of more extensive apathy than in many or most countries

          The French would never cop this sheet. When they get angry they get serious.

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          • #
            PeterS

            As I said many times before Australia has become a nation of jelly back gullible fools, sorry to say. Australia can prove me wrong by at least doing what some of the French did and burn vaccine passports once they are issued. If the vast majority do it I will then withdraw my comment.

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          • #
            Gary+Simpson

            The French know what it is to die for freedom.

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          Hanrahan

          The Americans are armed and dangerous and have no legal way of bringing about a real change in the administration for over three years. They might snap before then.

          Will the second American Civil War cause change that will alter our course? Will we again be dependant on the US for our survival, for our sanity? I shudder to think Yanks may be saner than us but they do still have Alpha males.

          20

        • #
          Hanrahan

          After Kevin 07 I vowed never to vote labor while I was on the green side of the grass. That vow includes any proxies like Zali Steggall.

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    • #
      Tilba+Tilba

      My view is that, under the commandments of powerful unseen players, Australia is on the road to a Venezuela-like condition.

      Have you ever been to Venezuela? Do you know anyone from Venezuela? I’m afraid you’re talking piffle – there is nothing about the current conditions in Australia, or the conditions likely to emerge over the next 25 years, that make the country anything like that failed oil state. What evidence can you point to?

      04

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  • #
    David Maddison

    I saw a shirt advertised that says:

    I’m vaccinated but still want you to stay away from me.

    Says it all, really.

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    Stanley

    Fans will be urged to travel to the stadium via bicycle or public transport and eat only vegan food when Spurs host Chelsea in the Premier League on 19 September.

    It is part of a plan to make the game the world’s first net zero carbon fixture at elite level.

    The clubs are working with broadcaster Sky to cut emissions around the match.

    Fans will also be urged to take positive steps to reduce their own carbon footprint.

    Both sets of players will arrive at the stadium on coaches powered by biofuel, and will be drinking water from more sustainable cartons rather than plastic bottles.

    Food kiosks inside the stadium will also be offering a large selection of plant-based food options so fans can make a more sustainable choice.

    Pssst….don’t tell the punters that only no-fizz beer will be available!

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Get woke, go broke.

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      • #
        Gerry

        Fans at the match will be required to limit their CO2 output but wearing masks that divert the CO2 to personal canisters carried like a largish hip flask that can be collected at halftime and replaced. These canisters will be used by greenhouses where CO2 is licensed to be used to increase food yields. In the case of cheer squads, the canisters can be collected and new ones given out earlier to roving CO2 collectors who will be prominent at the back of the stands.

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    • #
      clarence.t

      Is that the Babylon Bee again ? 😉

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      Tilba+Tilba

      Food kiosks inside the stadium will also be offering a large selection of plant-based food options so fans can make a more sustainable choice.

      Australia has about 400m hectares of arable land, of which about 300m hectares is pastoral. In other words you can only use it to turn “human useless” grass into high-quality protein via beef cattle (and sheep too). Cattle need water for sure, but they get what they need from bores, in the overwhelming majority of cases. I haven’t heard that our vast Artesian reserves are being depleted too fast.

      I don’t understand why this is not a good food production land-use, and isn’t sustainable.

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        clarence.t

        Agree completely.

        The raising of livestock on land of dubious crop production viability, is the most sustainable and useful thing that could be done with that land.

        The sustainability nonsense they go on about is based on total ignorance.

        Yes, being Australia, there will be occasional water supply issues, but there are projects which could supply that water, if the funds weren’t continually being wasted on virtue-seeking anti-productive activities such as Snowy 2 and submarines that won’t be available for N years, as N tends to ∞

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        • #
          clarence.t

          Just a thought…

          … at the current rate of sea level rise, will they get the submarines built before the dockyard gets inundated and the submarines sink before they are finished. 😉

          (and yes, I know the current rate of sea level rise is around 2mm/year)

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      PeterS

      Strange. I thought the US stadiums are going crazy telling Biden to FU! I won’t post them as they contain bad language but it appears to be going around like wildfire. I never seen it so bad. If an election were to be held now Biden I’m sure would lose by a wide margin in spite of any fraudulent attempts to swing it the other way. The sentiment against Biden would be too much and too obvious.

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      OldOzzie

      UK Ticket Sales “Flatlining” As Rebellion Against Vaccine Passports Grows

      Ticket sales for events in the UK that could require vaccine passports are “flatlining” according to industry insiders, as the rebellion against the onerous system grows.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Will the score be Net Zero?

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    Gerry

    Fans at the match will be required to limit their CO2 output but wearing masks that divert the CO2 to personal canisters carried like a largish hip flask that can be collected at halftime and replaced. These canisters will be used by greenhouses where CO2 is licensed to be used to increase food yields. In the case of cheer squads, the canisters can be collected and new ones given out earlier to roving CO2 collectors who will be prominent at the back of the stands.

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    another ian

    More notice from outside

    “Australia’s Fledgling Berlin Wall”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/09/07/australias-fledgling-berlin-wall/

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      PeterS

      The jury is still out. Let’s wait and see what the reaction will be by the public, the truckies and small businesses if and when we get the vaccine passports. That will be the defining moment as to whether Australia has fallen or not. I suspect it has but I hope I’m wrong.

      20

      • #
        Tilba+Tilba

        That will be the defining moment as to whether Australia has fallen or not. I suspect it has but I hope I’m wrong.

        It’s a public health emergency that governments are trying to deal with, and basically keep Australians as safe as possible. It’s not a power-grab, and no-one is taking away your freedoms for one day longer than necessary. Border closures work to contain spread.

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    Stoichastic

    A petition to stop the vaccines in Australia: https://www.aph.gov.au/e-petitions/petition/EN3083

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    • #

      signed, number of signatures 98000

      Petition Reason
      In the last 5 months since the rollout of these vaccines in Australia, we have had up to the 25/7 43811 adverse reactions & 407 deaths following vaccination reported to the TGA. These vaccines are only Provisionally approved & still in trials until 2023, so the Australian public are being used as guinea pigs in a world trial. We also know that they do not stop you catching or transmitting Covid 19. They also are not technically a true vaccine and are a brand new medicine with no long term study data on them. This is extremely dangerous when we have no idea how these shots will affect people not only in the short term, a few weeks, a few months or in years to come. They do not have any safety data for use in pregnant women, children or people with already compromised health issues. Leading world virologists, epidemiologists, Doctors, vaccine researchers etc have all spoken out about the immediate concerns regarding these vaccines and have also advised that they should be taken out of use. There are other treatments readily available & proven to be extremely effective in treating Covid. You can not come to any other reasonable assumption than that the risk from these vaccines DO NOT OUTWEIGH ANY BENEFIT that anyone would get from these shots & THEY SHOULD BE HALTED FROM USE IMMEDIATELY.

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    Mark+Allinson

    “Taiwan has said a large incursion of Chinese military jets flew into its air defence zone on Sunday.
    The defence ministry said 19 aircraft including fighters and nuclear-capable bombers entered its so-called air defence identification zone (ADIZ).
    Taipei has been complaining for more than a year about repeated missions by China’s air force near the island.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58459128

    After Taiwan goes it will be our turn.

    The CCP might as well formalise their ownership of Oz.

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      Tilba+Tilba

      After Taiwan goes it will be our turn. The CCP might as well formalise their ownership of Oz.

      I think these fevered-dream fantasies do you no credit. I don’t know what the US (or anyone else) would do if the Chinese tried to take back Taiwan … no idea.

      But if China tried any aggression against Australia, it wouldn’t last a week – every Western nation would apply massive sanctions, and immediate trade embargos. Australia is part of the A Team, and China wouldn’t dare do it. And why would they? They trade with us in big amounts.

      Anyway – how do you “invade” Australia? It’s not Belgium, Poland, or even Vietnam.

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    • #
      GF1

      M+A Australia has already fallen. Chinese only have to announce no exports to Aus. and the panic buying would empty the shops quick as. Or just tell the shipping tanker owners if a tanker delivers to Aus it will never enter a Chinese port, they have won without a shot fired

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      el+gordo

      There is bickering, but no brinkmanship, Taiwan won’t be invaded by the mainland.

      The US has left Afghanistan to focus on the Pacific and Australia is the deputy, this is folly of the first order. We should quit the Alliance, it doesn’t give us material advantage.

      The CCP is communist in name only, China has been a trading nation for at least 4000 years and they just want to get back to business. Do not be afraid, they come in peace.

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      • #
        yarpos

        yes! peace in our time Mr Chamberlain

        past performance is not a guide to future returns

        keep your powder dry

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  • #
    OldOzzie

    What’s all this about dewormed horses shooting COVID doctors in Oklahoma

    I blame Bat Child

    God bless our brave Rolling Stone reporters on the ground in Oklahoma, risking assault rifle-toting horses, COVID tornados, and murderous Sturgis bikers all hopped up on dewormers and meth to bring us the news

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    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      What a dill..can’t these Rutgers students think??….the student should have just said (if applicable) that he or she had already caught it and got over it asymptomatically or other. …and that he or she is doing an electronics course and Ai for detention.

      10

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Students are under incredible pressure during corona 19. Rutgers should step up to the plate and accept some responsibility…my view.. i cannot imagine how difficult it must be for young people although i can very nearly guess. Our very academic/world/worlds is/are crumbling before us.

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      PeterS

      Well that proves it’s not about the virus but is about politics and power.

      20

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Just a thought……Politics is impotent when confronted by power. Politics has very little to do with it. Mostly we do not see power, we see a stage and various props, and clever political personalities being replaced on an ongoing basis so that each preceding politician is never personally responsible during the changeover..

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  • #
    Tilba+Tilba

    There’s a lot of world-wide support for action on Climate Change – people are in trouble.

    https://www.alternet.org/2021/09/climate-emergency/

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    • #
      clarence.t

      That’s because they have been subjected to a constant barrage of lies and propaganda without actually looking at the reality and the data. Just like you.

      As soon as you see mantra lines like “keep average global temperature increases below 1.5°C”, you know its all propaganda based, and not related to science or reality.

      The Earth is currently cooler than it has been for 90-95% of the last 10,000 years.

      None of these natural events has anything to do with atmospheric CO2.

      They are just part of the not-changing much natural landscape.

      Data and history show that these events are nothing that haven’t happened before, mostly just exacerbated by human expansion into places where these natural disasters happen.

      And AlterNet.. LOL, a ultra-far-left political propaganda site with deep Trump Derangement Syndrome.

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    • #
      clarence.t

      ps, And in case you were “unaware”, the 1.5C meme is a number dreamt up by one of the climate trougher glitterati.

      It has absolutely zero relevance to anything remotely connected to actual science .

      40

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      el+gordo

      We are at the end of the Holocene and CO2 doesn’t dictate temperature.

      20

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      yarpos

      One of the positives of Covid is that people havent had to listen to marginal fools crapping on about climate change. Hence their desperation for attention. The good news is they will only get more shrill, stupid and disconnected from reality.

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  • #

    Craig Kelly is a good man IMHO
    Craig Kelly MP attempted to debate Australian medical researchers innovation and discovery of uses for Ivermectin, but is silenced by MP’s that want the facts censored.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uzwcgMfx28

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    • #
      Neville

      So David I think I’ll stick with our CSIRO and claim the entire SH is already NET ZERO emissions and of course Aussies should be handsomely rewarded for all our hard work compared to the terribly wasteful NH countries.
      We should demand no less than one trillion $ paid in monthly payments of 100 billion $. Very reasonable of we Aussies I’m sure and we shouldn’t accept anything less and you NH types should be very happy to pay.

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    • #
    • #
      Global Cooling

      Yes, it will require pop corn.

      China is asking USA money to support GND, where money goes to big western &b international companies. Africans ask where is the money they have been promised. Sheeple in the West have started to smell rat.

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    Environment Skeptic

    Personally i am worried about antibody dependent enhancement as a motive (worry) for further study. “ADE…the vaccineologists worst nightmare”

    “Dr. Robert W Malone,MD. “Steve Bannon’s War Room Interview” (Part 3) [2021] PLEASE SHARE!!”
    “548 views”
    “Sep 2, 2021”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS8K9mcag8Y

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      Serp

      So the apparent ADE is specific to Pfizer at this stage and this discovery comes on the eve of Biden announcing all federal employees must be vaccinated; it’s not an unexpected outcome, in times ahead with hindsight we’ll be told it was inevitable.

      Let’s see how quickly this information arrives on Scott Morrison’s desk and the rollout in Australia is abandoned and payments returned.

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      clarence.t

      The thought of the possible consequences for the twojabs+ is quite scary.

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  • #
    TdeF

    And in the silly Climate Change anything which gets into print is good season, the ‘Scientists Say’ prize goes to Australia’s Deakin University and the silly story of the week..
    It must be true. Deakin is a University and Scientists are all Climate Gods.

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    CHRIS

    Grace Tame is beginning to be just a bit of a BORE. So she’s a victim of sexual assault…OK. But if she wants to make an impression on Women’s Rights, then she should not be one-eyed.

    10

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    TdeF

    And in the US hurricane season, once again the news is that Einstein was right. Black holes do reflect light from the back.

    Now who is the Albert Einstein scientist of Climate Change? Professor Tim Flannery? “Even the rains which fall will not fill the dams”

    Mebourne’s dams are currently 80% full, something Flannery predicted with great certainty would never happen.

    Perth, the 21st century ghost city of Australia as confidently predicted by Flannery now has dam levels of 60% while lecturing taxpayers on the Climate Change disaster and ‘steadily declining rainfall’.

    Climate Change. The terrifying man made phenomenon which never stops creating news stories. Taxpayer funded climate science which has stopped anyone building new dams and pushed electricity prices through the roof while justifing the biggest carbon tax in the world, hidden in your electricity bills. The Government is not paying for all those windmills, solar farms, big batteries and solar panels and rebates. You are.

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      TdeF

      And if Climate Change really existed, man made or not and water supplies were drying up, why aren’t we building more dams? Even one major dam in the last 50 years? Or why not a single coal powered power station?

      Oh, that’s right, we are saving the planet. For whom exactly?

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    Relative Potency of Greenhouse Molecules

    The forcings due to changing concentrations of Earth’s five most important, naturally occurring greenhouse gases, H2O, CO2, O3, N2O and CH4 as well as CF4 and SF6
    were evaluated for the case of a cloud-free atmosphere. The calculation used over 1.5 million lines having strengths as low as 10−27 cm. For a hypothetical, optically thin atmosphere, where there is negligible saturation of the absorption bands, or interference of one type of greenhouse gas with others, the per-molecule forcings are of order 10−22 Watts for H2O, CO2, O3, N2O
    and CH4 and of order 10−21 Watts for CF4 and SF6. For current atmospheric concentrations, the per-molecule forcings of the abundant greenhouse gases H2O and CO2 are suppressed by four orders of magnitude. The forcings of the less abundant greenhouse gases, O3, N2O and CH4, are also suppressed, but much less so. For CF4 and SF6, the suppression is less than an order of magnitude because the concentrations of these gases is very low. For current concentrations, the per-molecule forcings are two to four orders of magnitude greater for O3, N2O, CH4, CF4 and SF6 than those of H2O or CO2. Doubling the current concentrations of CO2, N2O or CH4 increases the forcings by a few per cent. A concentration increase of either CF4 or SF6 by a factor of 100 yields a forcing nearly an order of magnitude smaller than that obtained by doubling CO2
    . Important insight was obtained using a harmonic oscillator model to estimate the power radiated per molecule. Unlike the most intense bands of the 5 naturally occurring greenhouse gases, the frequency-integrated cross sections of CF4 and SF6 were found to noticeably depend on temperature.

    Dependence of Earth’s Thermal Radiation on Five Most Abundant Greenhouse Gases

    The atmospheric temperatures and concentrations of Earth’s five most important, green-house gases, H2O, CO2, O3, N2O and CH4control the cloud-free, thermal radiative fluxfrom the Earth to outer space. Over 1/3 million lines having strengths as low as 10−27cmof the HITRAN database were used to evaluate the dependence of the forcing on the gasconcentrations. For a hypothetical, optically thin atmosphere, where there is negligible sat-uration of the absorption bands, or interference of one type of greenhouse gas with others,the per-molecule forcings are of order 10−22W for H2O, CO2, O3, N2O and CH4. For cur-rent atmospheric concentrations, the per-molecule forcings of the abundant greenhouse gasesH2O and CO2are suppressed by four orders of magnitude. The forcings of the less abundantgreenhouse gases, O3, N2O and CH4, are also suppressed, but much less so. For currentconcentrations, the per-molecule forcings are two to three orders of magnitude greater forO3, N2O and CH4, than those of H2O or CO2. Doubling the current concentrations of CO2,N2O or CH4increases the forcings by a few per cent. These forcing results are close topreviously published values even though the calculations did not utilize either a CO2or H2Ocontinuum. The change in surface temperature due to CO2doubling is estimated taking intoaccount radiative-convective equilibrium of the atmosphere as well as water feedback for thecases of fixed absolute and relative humidities as well as the effect of using a pseudoadiabaticlapse rate to model the troposphere temperature. Satellite spectral measurements at variouslatitudes are in excellent quantitative agreement with modelled intensities.

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    Lance

    Google algorithms are automatically selecting videos from news channels to be censored from Australian viewers that it deems offensive, inaccurate or dangerous, a media diversity inquiry has heard. But the tech giant has defended the move, saying its parameters were set by global “trust and safety teams” based on the best evolving advice from governments, health authorities and community standards. The admission came during an inquiry by the Senate Environment and Communications References Committee into media diversity chaired by Senator Sarah Hanson-Young and a one-week YouTube ban on Sky News and the removal of 23 clips last year related to…

    Link is paywalled.

    https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/google-admits-were-keeping-aussies-in-the-dark/news-story/2cac7921efd779ad68ea0c6e722f4d78

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    Hanrahan

    Well, waddayano! Boeing settles with Ethiopian Air for much less than a billion with little of that in cash. Most of it is ongoing assistance and subsidies to operate Boeing aircraft and, of course, replacement of the lost hull. Boeing have new B 737s up their gazoo.

    One cannot blame EA, a $2 bill payout in 5 years will hardly help a bankrupt airline.

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    Broadie

    Very interesting?

    The record of covid 19 deaths on the covid19 death database has lost a column from what I can gather. The column that has disappeared is the data source for confirmation of the cause for the death. I had been surprised to find these were not coroner’s reports or even autopsies, for the most part media releases or press conferences. When I looked at the Queensland deaths however, they were Queensland Health announcements and the deaths had other underlying underlying causes.

    Anyway, all gone now. I wonder if this is to do with deaths like the young people in Sydney being linked to Covid 19 being subject to autopsy?

    00

    • #

      Autopsies are very expensive and death is complicated. Even with a $5000 autopsy, when multiple systems fail the answer is likely a percentage contribution. Ultimately though, even people with many co morbidities may well have lived longer without Covid.

      20

      • #
        Broadie

        Dear Jo

        Autopsies are expensive and death is complicated, yet here we are spending trillions to fight a single strand RNA virus that has proven to mutate quickly with replication. Your cost point is therefore minor. In fact the lack of interest in these deaths has been strange according to the pathologists (if they are still registered) such as Dr Ryan Cole and Dr. Byram Bridle

        My comment was the covid data base had been reporting the source for their confirmation of the death and when you clicked on these sources, in many cases, they were news reports or simply media conferences. The Queensland ones were from Queensland Health and all five from my recollection had significant underlying co-morbidities.

        Anyway, column gone now?

        As far as diagnosis, one of my experience was with Marine Biologists busy with microscopes and dissections diagnosing all sorts of infections including viral in aquacultural production. These all miraculously disappeared when a farmer was employed and rolled up his sleeves and fixed the aeration, feeding rates and water supply problems. We know this from our experience with plants, don’t look after them and just see what starts hanging off them as their leaves drop off.

        So, I do not deny a virus exists or a more dangerous virus escaped from a BSL4 laboratory, I do however treat with great caution the certainty with which these deaths are attributed to SARS-Cov-2 as most deaths are in the old and unwell with the possibility that a wide range of bugs will be involved in a person who is unwell. This comes bask to my original post on this subject from the University of Washington virology site that has tracked quite consistently with the corona virus at ~%5 of those presenting with flu like symptoms. Of these the delta variant is nearly %100 at the moment. Strangely no deaths this year in Washington State from Flu.

        Thanks for your ever more popular blog. very rare to enjoy comments from all corners of the world on all the different sides of so many interesting subjects.

        [Broadie if I leave this comment here the host will see it as soon as she logs on.]AD

        [I agree AD, Broadie has made a good post here and I think Jo would like to consider it.]ED

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        • #

          Broadie,
          I’ve already dealt with this issue of autopsies and the complicated nature of deaths in a full post “How to ignore 94% of Covid deaths?”.

          Obviously, I agree with you that more data is better, that it’s a shame the extra column disappeared. My point was only about your expectation that we would do autopsies.

          At some point, quite early on, it becomes unmanageable to do autopsies. The cost benefits of doing the 1000th autopsy disappear, the results get predictable, and the money is better spent on hospitals /doctors / tax refunds. And we just don’t have the staff. Proper forensic autopsies take out a medically trained expert for hours.

          If a 50 year old dies within 28 days of getting a Covid + test is it a heart attack or was it a covid clot? Only a small number of 50 year olds will be expected to die of a heart attack in any given month. eg. For women aged 55-75 odds are 0.003% will die of a heart attack in any given month. (https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-health/coronary-heart-disease).

          So misattributed deaths of natural heart attacks in people testing Covid + are actually very small. Even in men older than 75 the odds of dying of a heart attack per month are 0.01%). The number of missed cases — people who didn’t get tested for Covid but died of it — is much larger than the number who died of natural causes while testing positive. (Every number is large when we are talking of numbers like 0.003%, yeah?)

          And some Covid deaths take a lot longer than 28 days. I don’t know. Depends on every jurisdiction or doctor probably.

          And then there are people who don’t know they have Covid, but whose reaction times, or blood oxygen has fallen or they may even get a TIA mini stroke. If they crash their car due to these side effects of Covid, is that a Covid death? It’s quite possible it wouldn’t have happened if they weren’t infected. Imagine how much work it would take to figure out what caused that death. Not just an autopsy, but a full accident investigation with their driving history. In the end it’s almost unknowable.

          That’s why the ball park figures and gross estimates which sound so unscientific are not that unreasonable. They miss some deaths both ways, but are more likely to underestimate the total (as seen in studies of Excess deaths in the regions of the US).

          I put a lot of work into that “94%” post linked at the top.

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            Broadie

            Yay! Someone has done an Autopsy!

            It is on the joannenova blog,

            Bizarre: Early samples from Wuhan patients also have bits of Influenza, Nipah, Leukemia, HIV

            And, another thought, if you were a GP and you had sold the Clot Shot to a patient and they died. What would you put on the death certificate?

            (a) death by Covid19

            (b) death by Clot Shot

            10

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    Sept. 3
    The conviction that global warming is melting ice in the polar regions has once again led climate warriors into danger and the need for rescue.  The MS Malmo, a Swedish-registered ship, was just rescued after being trapped in ice, and its passengers airlifted to safety. 
    Arctic tours ship MS MALMO with 16 passengers on board got stuck in ice on Sep 3 off Longyearbyen, Svalbard Archipelago, halfway between Norway and North Pole. The ship is on Arctic tour with a Climate Change documentary film team, and tourists, concerned with Climate Change and melting Arctic ice.

    You cannot reason with these believers in AGW/Climate Change/Climate Emergency etc. How many rescues have been made? Has anyone kept count? I can remember the bloke who was going to paddle his kayak to the North Pole and (from memory) didn’t make the Arctic Circle. A few years ago the Canadian Coast Guard got so upset at all these deluded loonies having to be rescued that they said in future that anyone rescued would have to pay all the costs. I think there were about 20 (multi-person) attempts that year.

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    Bartender

    And in the 11th hour both the Australian and UK government played down the significance of the leaked email, which reveals ministers agreed to drop specific climate change temperature targets and Australia
    is held to that.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/uk-really-not-taking-the-lead-at-all-on-climate-action-after-dropped-trade-commitments-revealed/ar-AAOelum?li=BBoPWjQ

    00