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No News: G7 says it will stop doing what it’s mostly not doing: China will keep financing Belt n’ Road Coal

Symbol China Map.
It’s all a charade. The news was no news. A group of countries that mostly don’t fund coal plants overseas agreed to keep not doing it. And Japan and Korea, who had already said they were phasing out their programs in 2016, said they would keep phasing it out.

This abdication of global charity leaves the path clear for the largest funder of foreign coal plants, the Chinese Communist Party. China can win even more favours and UN votes by being the only supplier of coal fired assistance to a desperate third world. That’ll suit President Xi.  He thanks the G7 patsies who limit their gifts to dinky unreliable solar panels and wind towers. Ten or twenty years from now, those gifts will be so much landfill. The coal plants will power on.

This was another nothingness press release just to look like a “win”, like progress was happening, and to give irrelevant former PMs a chance to grandstand. And the ABC and SBS bored us with another advert for Green-Fantasy-Island and didn’t mention that this was largely a repeat of a 5 year old agreement. Nor did they mention that  China is the largest funder of foreign coal, and it’s going to keep doing that.

G-7 countries commit to restrict international coal funding

Yahoo News,

Environment and climate leaders from Group of Seven (G-7) countries, made up of several advanced economies, said Friday that they will aim to put restrictions on funding for international power produced from coal.

The officials from the U.S., United Kingdom, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan also reaffirmed their country’s 2016 commitment to phase out “inefficient” fossil fuel subsidies by 2025.

The “news” was just a form of advertising

Given who benefits from the big non-announcement, it would be good foreign policy if the CCP were funding the likes of Greenpeace and co, or sending some “1000 talents” professors to help the IEA. Maybe someone should look?

China is not even pretending to feel pressured or follow suit. This is China a month ago:

Why China Is the Odd Man Out on Overseas Coal Financing

April 21, 2021, AsianPolyglotView

President Xi Jinping reiterated at the summit that ecological cooperation is a key aspect of China’s Belt and Road InitiativeChina made no promises to end coal financing abroad, even as Japan and South Korea, the second and third largest financiers of overseas coal power plants, take ambitious steps to stop funding overseas coal plants…

Indeed, China is working directly against the Paris accord, flagrantly, openly, on a massive scale, and the coal plants it is providing are not even the cleaner sort:

How China’s Big Overseas Initiative Threatens Global Climate Progress

Jan 3, 2019, Yale Environment

China’s Belt and Road Initiative is a colossal infrastructure plan that could transform the economies of nations around the world. But with its focus on coal-fired power plants, the effort could obliterate any chance of reducing emissions and tip the world into catastrophic climate change.

*Only* 70 nations have signed the Belt and Road program:

 China has over ten gigawatts of overseas coal power in the pipeline, and the central government has indicated coal will continue to be a part of the country’s overseas financing strategy for the foreseeable future. Chinese officials claim the country’s foreign direct investment and development financing for coal are simply meeting the demands of other countries. Yet comparing China’s financing side by side with Japan and South Korea, China has been willing to fund coal-fired power plants that use less efficient, higher-emissions technologies, even within countries that have also received Japanese and South Korean financing.

Chairman Mao, China. Propanganda Poster.

Do we forgive China for this intransigence because it’s a developing country?  How does that work? It’s like they’re too poor to cut coal power at home, which means they have to build it in Africa?

Meanwhile the advert meant a former PM and father to a hedge-fund-manager known-to-invest-in-renewables, got prime time publicity to lecture us on how far we are behind the rest of the world, despite that Australia doesn’t fund coal overseas either, and we’ve cut emissions per capita more than nearly anywhere on Earth.

The public broadcaster is just an advertiser for whatever policy journalists want to see forced on the people that pay their salary:

Australia accused of being ‘out-of-step’ on climate

Former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull has warned that Australia is more “out-of-step” with its allies than ever on the issue of climate change after G7 countries agreed to stop international funding for coal-fired power.

The world’s seven largest advanced economies agreed on Friday to stop international financing of coal projects that emit carbon by the end of this year, and phase out such support for all fossil fuels, to meet globally agreed climate change targets.

Australia doesn’t finance overseas coal projects, but Mr Turnbull said Australia’s “coal-hugging gas-loving sentiment” made it an outlier.

“I cannot recall Australia ever being so out-of-step with our friends and allies as we are today on climate,” he tweeted.

Time we built coal plants for the third world, starting with Australia.

Chairman Mao poster: Wikimedia public domain. 

Background info: 

World Energy Investment, IEA (2020)

China surpasses the West in funding Foreign Energy  (2016) 

Power Shift: New Report on International Coal vs. RE Finance (2017)

9.4 out of 10 based on 78 ratings

160 comments to No News: G7 says it will stop doing what it’s mostly not doing: China will keep financing Belt n’ Road Coal

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    We are sometimes lemmings.

    90

    • #
      PeterS

      Some are more like mules; stubborn to move, as the saying goes, unless and until something of great force belts them across their behinds. The population is full of both lemmings and mules.

      120

    • #
      Jonesy

      It is far worse,RI….Just put that gold star on your shirt and get on that train now!

      A rather drastic idea. However, I fear we ARE at a tipping point. How far off are we of losing or sovereignty to these unelected outfits urging for the destruction of our first world economy?

      110

      • #
        PeterS

        Speaking of trains, it’s sad to watch our nation taking the path of a train wreck in slow motion. Yet most are totally oblivious to it. The irony is many of us who are aware of it are hoping it to be slowed down even more or reversed. In either case it will still crash; the momentum is too great plus there are assassins on board who are willing to blow it up as a last resort. I rather have it speeded up to get it over and done with. That way we can avoid the explosion and have more survivors. Of course a better solution is for the people to wake up and throw out the assassins and their cohorts off the train while it’s moving so we can take control if it. That’s just a pipe dream of course.

        170

        • #
          Gary Simpson

          The dimwits running the G7 (advanced economy) countries are merely assuring their own self-destruction by transferring economic advantage to developing countries. The latter will then themselves become the advanced economies who may one day become woke enough to destroy their own advantage and hand economic power back to us. The circle is joined. You know it makes sense.

          20

          • #
            Gary Simpson

            On a serious note, why should we give up two centuries of hard work and enormous developmental leaps in all fields of endeavour just to appease the communists within? Let them go and join their comrades if their way is so much better.

            50

            • #
              PeterS

              It doesn’t work that way. They first want to destroy our way of life before contemplating moving to be with their so called comrades, who by the way would kill them rather than accept them in their own country. The so called leftists are parasites among us and the communist nations know that and so would not trust them for one second.

              40

        • #
          Mal

          Australia is fast becoming a Third World nation
          Therefore we don’t need to comply with UN and G7 resolitioms
          Maybe we should rethink our position in the world
          Western civilization Is destroying itself
          We need to think of Australia first
          The UN and G7 and the green elites are pure totalitarian regimes

          110

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Correct.

            The UN appears to be an unaccountable private organization with no oversight , run by what appears to be Satanic globalists, set up to sucker well meaning countries into signing onto its communist manifesto of pretty words to undermine democracy and hand power to a leftist agenda to literally run the world.

            The UN appears to be evil, make no mistake….

            50

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    This post is a “must read”.

    It takes all of those vague, uneasy feelings we have about where the world is headed, and details the reality.

    Pithy comments throughout help to push the message:
    we have been had!

    Yes, we should be apprehensive, the world has gone mad and sadly, most people can’t see it.

    Our mantra should be: “The problem is the Media”.

    The focus of our thinking is wrong and driven by the Media with incessant woke news guidance: for our own good, of course.

    If it comes from a government approved media source, it must be true: the government would never lie to us.

    How do we throw off these shackles?

    KK

    500

    • #
      Yonniestone.

      How do we throw off these shackles?, its either to somehow get control back in parliament, law, governments, education, ABC, or as that is highly unlikely the the ‘old school’ method of bloody revolution and cutting off the head of the snake in the literal sense, this was used by the Bolsheviks and similar movements until the current long march plan was devised.

      Some suggest this was planned even longer before or the combat method was a distraction for testing the waters, who knows?, the message is the same regardless of its guise we are facing a system that promotes oppression and control over one that promotes individual freedom and choice,if the majority cannot fathom this then a cruel irony will prevail for the few where ‘majority rules’ will win to pave the road to serfdom for all.

      260

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Good points Yonnie.

        Looking way back, locally I can see a pathway that has led to the strange situation we are now faced with.

        At the end of WW11, here in NovoCastria we had a mixture of influences.

        The unions, the churches, great education system and Laba dominated political system which, nevertheless, tolerated the incorporation of some decent people into local government.

        It was many years later that I learned of the ugly union behaviour during the war, the closure of the local dockyard, the issues with the two main churches.

        “It”, the unpleasantness and personal power grabbing has always been there, just slightly less obvious.

        Come recent years and inherited political power is evident in all levels of government and with it has come complete dominance of our social structure.

        Needless to say the Media bows to the inevitable, and goes with the flow.

        It’s very hard to imagine a pond, creek or dam with all the mud accumulating on top; but that’s where we are.

        Impenetrable muck and slime.

        We did this to ourselves out of greed and dismissal of any concern for tomorrow.

        The mud is in our legal system, our schools and universities, and especially in politics and we are to blame, not the Chinese.

        Ugly Australians sold our country out to China: we didn’t need external management of our ports, we don’t need wind and solar renewables from China.

        These were adventures in money grabbing. And they are not in gaol?

        KK

        220

        • #
          ando

          Spot in Keith. In this country you can be a parliamentarian sitting on every committee available for the added pay, get caught red handed with brown paper bags full of chinese cash and face zero criminal penalty. You will then immediately get gigs on The Project and their ABC who will seek your opinion on political matters – because you are of the left, sexual assault or treason doesn’t count of course. When corruption at the highest level goes unpunished, fleecing the public on the back of globull warming schemes is but a walk in the park. We now have both major parties almost in lock step so driving the oz bus off the cliff at 80kmh or 100kmh is our only choice it would appear.

          130

  • #
    PeterS

    The problem is far more than just the media. The problem is a lack of intelligence and logic as well as laziness by people to do their own research to get to the bottom of all this. Instead too many people accept without question whatever the media and our politicians tell us. That’s a recipe for disaster under any man-made regime.

    511

    • #
      Gerry

      Peter, until the experience of blackouts and loss of industry and jobs hits NSW (where the political leaders are from) nothing will happen. We’ve seen already that a gas fired power station arose from virtually nowhere when the political powers in NSW where being threatened.

      120

    • #
      Ian

      PeterS it is interesting that you write “The problem is far more than just the media. The problem is a lack of intelligence and logic as well as laziness by people to do their own research to get to the bottom of all this” as many comments to this blog are based on opinion rather than fact. For example, what evidence do you have to substantiate your statement that the “problem is lack of intelligence etc”?

      212

      • #
        PeterS

        I understand your optimistic view of much of the people and to place blame totally onto the media. I wish it were that simple but unfortunately it’s not. The evidence is very clear; there are too many in our population who are convinced we must deal with CAGW as though it’s real, which of course it isn’t. For starters we have a PM who demands we must reduce our emissions. I’m sure he’s not convinced of that just because the media says so. He does so for gaining the popular vote. He’s an appeaser and career politician like the rest of them. Then there are many of his mindless robot ministers who follow that agenda. Then there are the school teachers and Universities who teach their students the crap about CAGW and how fossil fuels are evil and renewables are our saving grace. In none of these areas has the media a major influence albeit it acts as a sort of echo chamber. So, it all has to come down a common denominator; lack of intelligence and logic. I would also add a complete lack of honesty due to a laziness to do their own research, in some cases because they have a hatred of our Western way of life so they are not interested in the real facts. The media are a problem but it’s not the only one. As I recall the CAGW controversy gained much more attention after the release of the documentary “An Inconvenient Truth” featured by none other than Al Gore in 2006. The media simply jumped onto his bandwagon, then came the politicians. Very few of them bothered to check out his so called “facts” which turned out to be a whole lot of BS if anyone bothered to do their own research, which I have and came to that conclusion over a decade ago once I became interested in the topic.

        231

        • #
          PeterPetrum

          Peter, I am not so sure it is a lack of “intelligence” but more a lack of “understanding” and a lack of education. My daughter’s in-laws could not be called unintelligent but there is no doubt that a lack of scientific understanding, plus a very far left attitude, means that they accept everything that they are told that equates with their philosophical outlook on life, without question. It is absolutely impossible to have a conversation with any member of that family based on data which flies in the face of their beliefs. Even the patriarch, in his 80’s, believes that wind and tidal power will be able to power the world, and small setbacks, like the Swansea disaster, is only a learning experience on the way to Nirvana. I have now given up trying and stick to trivialités when we get together for Christmas or birthdays. Unfortunately, my daughter has joined them and now has solar panels and an electric Mini!

          130

          • #
            PeterS

            I understand what you are getting at. It depends on how one defines “intelligence”. The usual definition is the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. It is my belief that requires understanding, enthusiasm and honesty. In that case I would think that the way I applied it is correct. So even people with a high IQ can act as though they of low “intelligence” using that definition.

            70

            • #
              Denny

              You hit it above with too many people just accept what they hear or are told by the media and politicians. I have many friends, some engineers, who buy into everything they see, apparently not considering they could be receiving a bunch of BS.

              It might also be that that is what they want to hear, so their beliefs are being reinforced.

              70

              • #
                Ian


                It might also be that that is what they want to hear, so their beliefs are being reinforced.”

                That is certainly the case here as the comments clearly show

                26

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                It has been stated:

                “as the comments clearly show”.

                Totally agree:
                the comments really are showing, and this is all made possible by reliable, environmentally clean coal fired power plants.

                40

    • #
      Strop

      It’s confirmation bias and a lack of critical thinking.

      People generally are not inclined to question information that fits with or supports their beliefs or ideals. Even intelligent people can kid themselves.

      50

      • #
        PeterS

        Everyone suffers from confirmation bias, at least to some extent. The challenge is to be aware of it and strive to overcome it as best we can by way of intelligence and critical thinking skills. Too many people don’t bother to accept that challenge and instead go along with whatever is told to them by so called “experts”. In that respect they are not intelligent, but granted they might be very intelligent in other areas, such as playing chess. I’m a great believer in DYOR. It doesn’t mean I will get the right answers all the time but it sure beats the alternative of accepting without question whatever politicians or the media says.

        60

    • #
      ghl

      Peter S
      We are in the final days of a very lucrative “long con” I have seen estimates of total gravy train transfers of 2Tr$/a and up. That’s 3B$ per day, $70,000 per second. Anything that kicks the can down the road pays off obscenely. Enough for a taste for everyone.
      Police stop traffic for protestors, bureaucrats and pollies invite an ignorant girl of 17 to hector them.
      I have never seen a survey with unbiased questions, or an election where AGW was allowed to be an issue. I believe a clear majority of the public are against spending any money on anything to do with AGW. They are never allowed to say so.
      Even honest pollies are aware that AGW and those other buggers can influence (fix?) elections. Rudd reversed his support for a carbon tax and lasted another six weeks. American political movements pop up in Australia. ( B.L.M. and Getup ) Hardly spontaneous. They are not needed here but they serve someone’s purpose.
      The next generation are a problem, public bullyng is normal to them, ethics are something they have never heard of.
      The only effective defence I can think of is an intense political cxampaign, Debate over the science is necessary but not persuasive enough, Al Gore will fight a lot harder for his next $million than I will to avoid another $thousand on my power bill.

      80

      • #
        PeterS

        It mostly comes down to this. Most people are too busy or not interested in doing their own research to check out the real facts about the need to reduce our emissions at great cost, in terms of money, loss of jobs and destruction of our economy. If people were really that interested they would know the truth and stop voting for either major party. The buck actually stops with the voters not the government. As a nation we need to stop taking the lazy approach. As it turns out we won’t and so we will learn it the hard and painful way.

        30

    • #
      ando

      Exactly. In the age of information at your fingertips, the laziness of the general public and their belief in the soros9 news astounds me.

      60

      • #
        Ian

        There is plenty of information at one’s fingertips but it is never examined by those who believe humans use of fossil fuels has no effect on the climate. Their belief in that postulate astounds me.

        07

        • #
          another ian

          “There is plenty of information at one’s fingertips ”

          As in the internet is the information highway?

          Seems to me more like a bad wheat crop – some grains in a lot of chaff and the uncritical have trouble doing the winnowing

          60

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Your “belief in that postulate astounds me”.

          The fact that you have a PhD in a very focused area of Bio Science and that you can’t analyse the issue of, so called, global warming doesn’t astound me.

          What astounds me is that you Can’t assess things in a scientific manner despite your “qualifications”.

          Don’t despair, you are not alone in this, it’s very common, and in your defence a lot of effort and money has been put into “clouding” the facts to confuse you.

          That said, it might be best not to delve too far into reality, it may upset you to learn that the system has been pulling your leg and you may get angry.

          That wouldn’t be good for tenure.

          KK 🙂

          70

          • #
            Ian

            Yeah I do have a PhD in a very focussed area of Bioscience, namely the way steroids interact with cells to cause breast and prostatic cancers. Equally Climate Science is a very focussed area and, unlike those who continually deride climate scientists, I am not vain enough to believe I have sufficient knowledge to utterly disregard the views of scientists who spend their lives trying to understand the roles of the many factors involved in climate regulation.

            You write “That said, it might be best not to delve too far into reality, it may upset you to learn that the system has been pulling your leg and you may get angry.”

            Climate sceptics, in the main, also do not delve too far into reality but that doesn’t seem to stop them from being angry does it?

            Many climate scientists currently claim climate change is 100% due to humans. That seems highly unlikely. There are many factors known to affect the climate but there are undoubtedly many that are not known. So how can we possibly make such definitive statements? The use of General Circulation Models is widely accepted but no one ever seems to note that these models rely on human inputs, inputs which clearly cannot include factors of which humans are not aware. That said, my own view is that humans almost certainly do have some effect on the climate but what that percentage is I have no idea. I doubt it is zero as many climate sceptics appear to believe although what the scientific basis is for that belief is not delineated. Nor, as I wrote above, do I believe it is 100% as climate scientists assert.

            16

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              I have dealt with every one of your concerns on numerous occasions.

              I suspect that you have read some of them and dismissed them “because I do not have a PhD”.

              Well good luck with that because my first degree was choc full of skills that any so called “Climate Scientist” would probably not have the persistence or aptitude to acquire.

              The old concept that PhDs are about learning more and more about less and less is not used without a sense of irony.

              KK

              50

              • #
                Ian

                You have dealt with everyone of my concerns have you? What utter conceited, self satisfied and pompous rubbish.

                As for your first degre, which you love to mention I notice you never specify what areas it covered or what these multitudinous skills were you claim you had the persistence and aptitude to acquire I have over the years read many of your replies and in turn have replied to you. I didn’t dismiss any of them because I have a PhD but because they were irelevant as indeed is this comment of yours.

                04

    • #
      skeptocynic

      The problem is far more than just the media.

      Very true, the media is just one weapon in the arsenal of social control.

      The problem is a lack of intelligence and logic as well as laziness by people to do their own research

      The lumpenproletariat will always be inadequately educated, uninterested, lazy and illogical.

      If the mass-media was fearless, independent, and rigorously honest, an unintelligent majority would not be a problem.

      The puppeteers ensure that the narrative the population is fed, the narrative which they gormlessly swallow, believe uncritically, and duly regurgitate parrot-fashion, is one strictly controlled by the puppeteers who wield the mass media so as to keep people’s attention on the BS believing the lies and the charade, while vast profits are made in the shadows away from the spotlight where power and control is consolidating, where the chains of slavery are being forged and the noose is being tightened.

      20

  • #
    Simon

    Socialism is building a power station that the market doesn’t want and then giving it away for free.

    231

    • #
      el gordo

      They are not socialists, in fact they are hard nosed capitalists out to take advantage of untapped markets. Premier Xi sees himself as a benevolent dictator uplifting the masses.

      China has been trading for thousands of years and they can bring about a commercial revolution, but its going to be a challenge. Where ever they go along the BRI they attend to the power generation in the first instance, for obvious reasons.

      63

    • #
      Strop

      Simon, I’d dispute the notion that the market (consumer market that is) doesn’t want it.

      Of the minority portion that don’t want it there are those that don’t understand why it’s needed and a portion that know its needed but it’s simply against their agenda and ideology.

      20

    • #
      Penguinite

      Same same with solar and wind power! So heavily subsidised as it is!

      20

    • #
      Simon

      Either the Australian politicians in charge understand the energy sector better than the market players or the politicians are beholden to donors and lobbyists who stand to gain from a massive subsidy. I’m inclined to go with the latter.
      And yes, I do agree though that what China says and what China does are two different things. Time will tell as to how they deal with the contradiction.

      12

      • #
        ando

        No donors and lobbyists who stand to gain from a massive subsidy in the ‘green’ sector of course lol.

        20

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Simon says;

        “or the politicians are beholden to donors and lobbyists who stand to gain from a massive subsidy. I’m inclined to go with the latter.”

        Did you really say that?

        Yes; the universities are “believers”, the media, in the main, are believers and this occurs because Governments, our politicians, our “trusted” elected representatives make sure that if they aren’t believers then they will have a rocky future, if any.

        Politicians have betrayed the voters, residents trust :
        end of story.

        They have endorsed a subsidy scheme for “friends” and rejected the obvious meteorological and engineering knowledge that is readily available.

        This, as TdeF frequently states, is not a legal part of their job and should be actionable but for the fact that the legal system is also part of the “great fall” of our once great democratic system.

        KK

        10

    • #
      another ian

      Seems socialism is good at giving unwanted things for free?

      20

  • #
    John Hultquist

    With every purchase of a product made in China there is money going to the Fund to Destroy the West (FTDTW). The elites from the G7 countries should not buy anything that says Made in China, and they should stop promoting things that are.

    270

    • #
      Klem

      Exactly right. My company caved in to the greenie mob recently and put solar panels on the HQ roof, against my advice. Some of that money likely worked it’s way to a well funded local green organization which is our enemy and hell bent on destroying us and shutting us down.

      I don’t understand why our braintrust and leaders do not see this.

      150

  • #
    William Astley

    Kalm Keith… I agree and this is not the start of a vague problem. This is an organized, sneaky, plan to cause our countries to fail.

    We are at war with China. China funded the propaganda war. China has taken over control of the key media companies, key political parties (i.e. Dems in the US), NGOs, universities, and so on. We lost that battle.

    It is not an accident that our politicians/media/news outlets are suddenly ‘politically’ controlled/not independent/not logical/not on our side. Our countries are now a version of 1984. We are fighting the 1984 forever war. A war that cannot be won and that, year by year, weakens and destroys our countries while year by year China becomes stronger and more dangerous.

    We are at the point where the government/external powers that control our companies, will not allow disagreement/talk/discussion about official scientific truths like the 2020 US Democratic election win or CAGW.

    We are at the point where countries are promising to carbon tax and zero carbon emission their country to death. Bitcoin has increased by a factor of three in the last year. The public/news media/politicians are clueless about the danger of multiple currency collapses.

    Countries are super spending to pay people to not work. In the US, the Dem’s are making/initiating impossible to fund promises/legislation like free childcare, free college, and small business money given out based on skin color/ethnicity.

    It is irrational that our governments and our own people would naturally start to attack our own country. CAGW and the green scams are just part of an organized effort to cause chaos and destruction in our country.

    It is odd that suddenly in the US there is an organized effort which oddly is being pushed by companies and government agencies… To come up with sneaky ‘ideas’/fights/chaos/problems/issues to destroy our institutions like our military and government.

    I am thinking about your question. How do we throw off these shackles?

    We must take action while there is still freedom. The US is weakening. Failing.

    We need to bring more people and different people into our discussions.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/05/21/desantis-vows-action-on-critical-race-theory-offensive-to-ask-taxpayers-to-fund-teaching-kids-to-hate-their-country/

    340

    • #
      PeterS

      Again the elephant in the room is being ignored. The real enemy is within the West. We are at war with ourselves. Russia and China are simply waiting it out and looking at us from afar with great amusement.

      251

      • #
        Gerry

        And quietly tightening the noose ..eg Nord Stream 2

        100

        • #
          PeterS

          It’s very possible that Russia and/or China will defeat the US not by engaging in a war but waiting for the US to decay from within, and I suspect they know it and are patient enough to wait for it to happen. Once the decay has reached devastating levels, perhaps Russia and/or China will simply “walk” in to pick up the pieces. This is the greatest danger facing the West, not some sort of “first strike” attack. Our political “masters” have really lost the plot and leading us into dangerous waters with very little help from other nations. They are in effect the real enemies. By engaging with the CAGW emission reduction nonsense, they are unwillingly weakening the West to the point of self destruction. If it goes on too far I can see the day when the masses will beg for Russia and/or China to come over and give us a hand, in spite of involving a certain loss of our sovereignty. It’s not too late to turn things around but it can only happen if Western governments first treat all pro-renewable, anti-fossil fuel proponents in a similar fashion to acts of terrorism. Clearly I can’t see it happening soon, if at all.

          150

          • #
            David Maddison

            I find it terrifying the large number of people in the West who are facilitating its destruction from within. I would put all Leftists in that category. Most are naive and stupid, the useful idiots, but many know exactly what they are doing.

            A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within.

            Will Durant, The Story of Philosophy: The Lives and Opinions of the World’s Greatest Philosophers

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            • #
              PeterS

              Yes but I wouldn’t just put the left in that category. Far too many conservatives are at fault too. They have caved in to the CAGW scam and hoax, hook, line and sinker, apart from a few. We all recognise PM Morrison as a conservative but as far as the climate change issue is concerned he might as well be a lefty. On other issues he is a true conservative but that’s not much help to steering us away from the CAGW hoax, and we are not here to discuss those other issues. There is a saying “beware of Greeks bearing gifts”. In the case of people like PM Morrison I would say beware of the enemies of Greeks bearing gifts, if you understand what I’m getting at.

              80

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    All the govts of the earth acting together? And for wrong doing?

    Reminds me of this :

    “12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.
    13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.
    14 They will wage war against the Lamb,

    The 10 kingdoms are forming now, IMHO. NAFTA being one.

    110

    • #
      PeterS

      Very likely. Just a matter of time for all the “wrong doers” to show their hand, at least to those with eyes to see, ears to ear, and an intelligent and logical mind to process. The rest of the people will remain asleep and eventually will be waken up with so much astonishment that their core beliefs will be shaken and perhaps changed dramatically.

      60

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I am expecting a large allegedly “christian” denomination with HQ in italy to start openly talking about and embracing “extra terrestrials”.

        Likely just another ruse by demonic entities, to deliberately try to shake peoples faith…..

        40

        • #
          PeterS

          Interesting prediction. Perhaps they will also throw in a fake rapture. I have understood for some years now that UFOs and all associated occurrences are demonic in origin.

          30

          • #
            el gordo

            UFO are real and none of the religions are prepared for the revelation that these craft are of extraterrestrial origin.

            03

            • #
              PeterS

              Yes UFOs are real but they are not what you think. People like you are not prepared for the coming great hoax about so called aliens coming to “help” us. Their master is the evil one and if you are not prepared to know the truth he will be your master too.

              20

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Get Locky on the blower!

    PNG leaders are furious an Aussie-based mining company has sent Darren Lockyer to “brainwash” the league-obsessed nation into supporting a coal mine and coal-powered power plant …

    “Many of the locals that receive me do it with open arms, as Mayur and I genuinely are there to create better lives for the people in PNG and bring our first world development standards with us in doing this.”

    https://www.couriermail.com.au/business/companies/nrl-legend-darren-lockyer-caught-up-in-png-tribal-land-war/news-story/a8644b4bc75eb83ea39d285f064830c2

    90

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Actually the G7 are talking about stopping funding for “unabated” coal plants, they will be still funding coal plants that have pollution controls- you can all stop clutching your pearls

    326

    • #
      el gordo

      Good morning Mr Fitzroy, I tend to agree, its a beat up.

      211

    • #
      MrGrimNasty

      Yes they might fund CCS coal, but since that isn’t viable, it IS effectively a total ban.

      Meanwhile China is funding coal that doesn’t even have basic pollution controls, not just imaginary CO2 pollution.

      Typically, by withdrawing funding the West loses power/influence/wealth and the environment suffers to boot. Sums up the whole climate scam.

      The G7 fools think this isolates China – no, it empowers, enriches, and emboldens China.

      231

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Pearls? No….why do you assume everyone here are up tight conservatives? I enjoy a good camping and hibting expedition as much as anyone.
      Trying to catch my daughters new horse this morning. Little sod has a new “girlfriend” we have to corral so he behaves. Its hardly glamorous mucking out when there are literally wheelbarrows of poop to dispose of…kind if like PC and inane leftist thought bubbles du jour…

      61

    • #
      Klem

      Of course they don’t want to fund unabated coal plants, they want as many encumberances on coal power as they can get. Abatements drive up the cost of power which generates more revenue for governments and also reduces societal prosperity.

      Prosperity is the enemy of the Left.

      Right Pete?

      20

  • #
    el gordo

    “I cannot recall Australia ever being so out-of-step with our friends and allies as we are today on climate,” he tweeted.

    Yeah, its great.

    44

    • #
      Serp

      Ever the windbag. His recent belligerence is suggestive of mental deterioration.

      60

      • #
        Serp

        Former PM Turnbull is who I have in mind AD. I used always to refer to him as the Beloved Windbag but that was when, erroneously, I thought him harmless.

        80

      • #
        ghl

        Serp
        I think he is as sharp as ever, just totally unscrupulous and pursuing his own financial ends. Has been for decades. Since the Libs are more likely than Labs to kill AGW he concentrates on destroying them.

        30

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      “Being out of step on climate…”

      let me rephrase….

      “Australia has told the UN vampire that it wont go along with its communist power grab under the guise of eco lunacy…”

      Vive le Common Sense

      20

  • #
    Custer Van Cleef

    OK let’s confine the argument to Unabated Coal Plants.

    Unless I misread it, China is going to step into the gap vacated by the West, to fund new “unabated coal plants”.

    In which case, how does that help “the climate”?
    The emissions are the same, just the “funder” changes.

    This looks like another WIN for the golden dragon … and the West staggers in last again. Our leaders are so stupid.

    130

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      you did indeed misread it

      114

      • #
        Ian

        Peter Fitzroy in response to Cluster Van Cleef’s comment “Unless I misread it, China is going to step into the gap vacated by the West, to fund new “unabated coal plants”, you replied “Indeed you did” I don’t think your response is accurate as China is actively funding new coal plants as is discussed in the link below

        https://qz.com/1760615/china-quits-coal-at-home-but-promotes-the-fossil-fuel-in-developing-countries/

        “Domestically China has been an unexpected leader in environmental progress. To reduce air pollution, the government has shuttered dozens of coal facilities, while subsidizing solar and wind globally. And President Xi Jinping aims to cut coal’s share of the country’s total energy capacity to 50% by 2030.

        But abroad, we see a different trend. More than 70% of all coal plants built today are reliant on Chinese funding. Since 2013, China’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) has committed over USD $50 billion in state finance to building 26.8 Gigawatts of overseas coal facilities across 152 countries. 60 new coal plants across Eurasia, South America, and Africa—totaling an additional 70.3 Gigawatts—financed almost exclusively by Chinese banks. If built, they would emit about as much carbon dioxide as all of Spain: 276 Megatonnes per year.”

        However the article also states

        “This isn’t a definitive future as even with committed financing, fewer and fewer coal plants are reaching completion. Many will likely be cancelled mid-process due to public opposition, legal challenges, investors’ cold feet, and possibly greater environmental commitments from President Xi Jinping himself, who’s expressed a need for a Green BRI.”

        The last paragraph is indeed good news and the G7/EU initiative may increase the chances of it becoming reality.

        18

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          And what sort of coal plants are china building? There is no information in the post about that, nor is there any mention of the solar and wind capacity also funded by China.

          115

          • #
            JB

            Do you mean the wind and solar systems funded in other countries? The Chinese are too smart to rely on wind and solar themselves.

            130

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Correct.

              Any they rely on useful idiot comrades here to try and sell the renewables pup to Australia, using the big lie of climate change as a psuedo argument.

              When you really look at it, climate change is just a covert take down of our way if life, a form of Tr**son…..

              30

      • #
        Custer Van Cleef

        From Jo’s article,

        the coal plants [China] is providing are not even the cleaner sort

        …China has been willing to fund coal-fired power plants that use less efficient, higher-emissions technologies

        Sounds like they might be the unabated coal plants you referred to.

        90

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Less advanced is not unabated, and if you had read the source article you would know that.

          115

          • #
            MrGrimNasty

            ABATED means with full emissions control INCLUDING carbon capture, as you full well know Peter.

            40

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              What?
              You just make this stuff up

              110

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Your right: it’s a stuff-up

                41

              • #
                MrGrimNasty

                No Peter, I bothered to looked up their definition of ‘unabated’, so I could be properly informed. As the UK Guardian reports:-

                “John Kerry, the US climate envoy, said the US was determined to bring forward policies consistent with keeping within a temperature rise of 1.5C above pre-industrial levels, including phasing out coal. Referring to the IEA advice, he said the US would phase out unabated coal-fired power, which means power stations without technology to capture and store carbon dioxide.”

                30

    • #
      Damo

      I think it was a very astute reading of it Sir Cluster Van Cleef. Much better than P. Fitzroy’s, who commented negatively but either couldn’t be bothered or is unwilling to disclose why he disagrees!

      30

  • #
    John R Smith

    Suppose a certain 1930’s German political party that systematically eliminated entire populations, had survived WWII and still ran Germany?
    Perhaps the bad man that led it is gone, put that party survives.
    A mid century political party that eliminated 45 million of it’s own people still operates today and is the subject of this discussion.
    And now may be the most powerful in the world.
    CCP … (will the algo-rhythm object?)
    The name of referenced extinct German political party will be censored if I type it here.
    What does this mean?
    Much more than Belt n’ Road.

    40

    • #
      David Maddison

      The Nazis didn’t go away. They subsumed into the environmental movement. See my post of yesterday and the book that I referenced. The same evil is still out there but they are more likely to identify as International Socialists rather than National Socialists.

      https://joannenova.com.au/2021/05/nsw-power-so-erratically-expensive-an-aluminium-smelter-powered-down-three-times-in-a-week/#comment-2428885

      60

      • #
        Richard Owen No.3

        David:
        It’s really a matter of mind, not planning. There are some people with limited ability to think, and hate being challenged intellectually, so they surround themselves with others who think similarly and have their arrogance reinforced because others agree with them. The result is a self herding mob of sheep (apologies to sheep) who head in the same direction that several members start off in. Discipline is maintained by biting those who think the grass might be better in another direction, followed by mass attacks if they don’t get back in line. A great example is Bjorn Lomborg who, despite public acceptance of “Global Warming”, gets treated as an outcast and ignored for claiming that the “sheep” are heading for the edge of the clifftop.

        Then there are the Phitzroy Phules who wander around the fringes incessantly bleat the chosen refrain of the flock, trying to get others in. Nothing would ever persuade them that there beliefs are based on uncertainty or myth. Convinced of the “necessity” of going over the cliff edge lemming like** they will still be bleating halfway down.

        **Or should that be walrus like?

        100

      • #
        John R Smith

        David, interesting.
        I think the N party did cease as a functioning political entity in 1945.
        They stopped running a country at least.
        (Except maybe Spain … sort of.)
        Those that want to mold humanity in their own disturbed image did not.
        The CCP has functioned continuously since the Great Leap Forward.
        Cleverly absorbing the Humanity Improvers.
        GLF conveniently forgotten.

        30

  • #
    David Maddison

    China couldn’t get away with what it does were it not for the useful idiots of the West. These people love China but hate the West. We can see that everyday on this group from one or more Leftist posters.

    While these people do China’s dirty work, the Chinese simultaneously hate them and even have a special name for them as follows: (QUOTE from Urban Dictionary.)

    Baizuo(白左,White Leftists)is a popular Mainland Chinese term coined for a specific subset of Westerners who are despised by most Chinese for their pretentiousness, hypocritical behavior and an overbearing sense of entitlement.

    Baizuos are mostly characterized by their heavy use of political correctness and double standards to covertly advance their own material or emotional interests at the expense of others, while claiming otherwise from a self-assumed superior moral position. Some are truly non-malicious, but are too naive or lack the worldview to provide useful opinions or solutions to real societal problems.

    Since most of these group is white (白)and left-(liberal) leaning(左), and thus the name.

    90

    • #
      Curious George

      I am not such an optimist. Look at Afghanistan, they thumbed their noses at Russia (believe me, Russia is not the West), now at the U.S. and the famed NATO.

      00

    • #
      PeterS

      Yes, it’s amazing how very few people in the West understand that the CCP have a great disdain of our leftists. They consider them to be parasites and if the CCP had their way they would round them up and deal with them like any other dissident. Is it any wonder the leftists don’t go over the live in China? I think most of them know they would not be welcomed over there. If only we had leaders with a backbone to deal with our dissidents instead of kowtowing to them.

      20

  • #
    Serge Wright

    Hmmm, it makes you wonder what the F$%# is going on ?

    Let’s look at the equation inputs:
    1) China has a special Monopoly card, provided by the UN and agreed by Obama to “Get out of CO2 free”, and can increase their CO2 by any amount up to 2030.
    2) All of the emissions increase since 1980 have come from the developing world and the only future increases will come from the developing world.
    3) The is no available solution to create new grid energy capacity other than FF and nuclear. RE generation can only be supported with FF already installed.

    Therefore, the very obvious conclusion is that the developing world will be embracing coal for the indefinite future. But the even more obvious conclusion is that any push from the west to reduce emissions to zero can only happen by their de-industrialising, meaning their productive output will be moved offshore to China and the developing world, resulting in more CO2 emissions than would have otherwise been the case otherwise. Meaning, the winner here is China, who will now be the sole funding source for almost all energy projects in the developing world, along with the new factories and plants that will take over production from the west as they exit from the global economy and become the new 4rd world.

    110

  • #
    Rowjay

    Point #1
    The IEA states that:

    With 16.3 GW, Australia now leads the world in solar per capita, at 600W/person. Germany is
    a close second at 580W/person.

    Point #2
    from Mapped: The world’s coal power plants in 2020 (carbonbrief.org)

    Since 2000, the world has doubled its coal-fired power capacity to around 2,045 gigawatts (GW) after explosive growth in China and India. A further 200GW is being built and 300GW is planned.

    Australia is responsible for 0.017% of the world’s power generated from fossil fuels, and it is decreasing. No coal-fired power stations are being built in Australia – they are being closed!
    :
    Point #3
    World annual coal production is running at about 7,500 million tonnes. Australia exports about 200 million tonnes of thermal coal annually, amounting to 0.027% of world production and usage.
    :
    Why is Australia being denigrated as a pariah by our own people when the publicly available figures show that we are an insignificant bit-player in the global scheme of things, and in fact leads the world on a per capita basis for solar installations??

    210

    • #
      Richard Owen No.3

      Brilliant comment.
      Can I use it elsewhere? I am thinking of a series of small ‘adverts’ in the local newspaper. The Editor won’t publish anything that doesn’t agree with the ABC view (he’s ex-ABC) but I think paying for a series of “what you think is wrong”** would get published.

      ** those above.
      Also “it is warmer now than it has been for X years”. “The sea level is rising”, “the oceans are becoming acid” (based on pH figures from 150 years before pH meters), “the sixth mass extinction”, “predictions by climatologists” etc.

      80

  • #
    Dennis

    A US light truck manufacturer has announced that an EV version of it’s popular 1.5 tonne light truck will be released in 2022, the cost will be just under US$120K depending on model/range selected.

    Not mentioned was that the greater the range the heavier the battery pack and the lower the payload permitted, and of course the larger the battery pack the longer to recharge, but as with all EV drivers can choose the 80 per cent recharge option which also boosts the life of the battery pack.

    Australian trades people and farmers will be lining up to pay the hefty premium price and range/recharge limitations and inconvenience, won’t they?

    70

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Another wonderful contribution; the “contribution” we had to have for our own benefit, or something.

    https://joannenova.com.au/2021/05/no-news-g7-says-it-will-stop-doing-what-its-mostly-not-doing-china-will-keep-financing-belt-n-road-coal/#comment-2429080

    Give me your links.

    20

  • #
    Perplexed of Brisbane

    “Out of step,” translation: “not buying renewables at a rate that makes my son and I more money from speculating in them.”

    40

  • #
    kevin kilty

    Quite a good column, Jo.

    80

  • #

    There’s something worth pondering in all of this.

    There are ONE BILLION people on the Planet who have no access at all to electrical power. On top of that, there are a further TWO and a HALF BILLION people who do not have enough electricity to sustain economic development.

    We here in the already developed World have that access, and take it for granted, as long as the electricity keeps coming out of the proverbial ‘hole in the wall’.

    One of the most difficult things to understand is that the power you have in your home is (on average) only around 30% of all generated power.

    The rest of that goes to the Commerce and Industrial Sectors, the engines that run economic development, and in fact, run the Country. A Capital City like Sydney consumes almost three times the power of the whole State of South Australia. Similar, but lower (not by much) for Melbourne and Brisbane.

    That’s 70% of all generated power, consumed in those two Sectors, Commerce and Industry.

    While ever people think of power consumption on THEIR OWN home consumption, the fallacy that wind and solar can deliver power will go on.

    It’s such an easy thing for us to say that these still Developing Countries need to do without the only source of power which can deliver those humungous amounts of power to what is basically almost half the World.

    Those incredibly huge amounts cannot be delivered by any form of those so called renewable sources.

    A large wind plant can have a Nameplate of 400MW to 500MW, and the equivalent power actually delivered is around 120MW to 150MW and the power can be up and down on not just a year round basis, but from hour to hour.

    A single coal fired Unit can deliver between 600MW and now more than 1200MW, and while ever you put powdered coal in the front, that maximum power comes out the back.

    You can supply the odd solar panel here and there to power what might be called a ‘home’ where these developing Countries people live in, but unless the Country actually ….. develops, then there’s not much else.

    You CANNOT do that with a wind plant or solar panels.

    Tony.

    220

    • #
      el gordo

      Giving light and hope to the Third World is a momentous undertaking, fossil fuels will be integral along the BRI. They are putting in a mix of energy to make it commercially viable.

      06

    • #

      Yeah, more coming on that later in the week. (from me)

      Still working on it.

      Tony.

      50

      • #
        el gordo

        Good, we need a definitive answer.

        Just had dinner with some inner city Sydney people and we discussed the Hunter by-election, a vote for common sense. Anyway I tried to explain that wind and solar won’t cut it, but they were adamant we don’t need a gas power plant.

        I told them point blank, after a couple of wines, if there are massive blackouts there will be a revolution and dictatorship. Stunned amazement, at that point I took my leave.

        90

        • #
          Strop

          They were probably stunned by the use of “IF” instead of “when” in “if there are massive blackouts”.

          80

    • #
      William Astley

      Tony,

      You are on to something. Our citizens have become like little children who do not understand how the world/their country works and the risks/consequences of long-term country mismanagement/treason/chaos. We are losing because we are doing stupid things which absolutely will destroy our countries. We are not in the ‘game’. We are fighting with ourselves because that is the enemy’s plan. People who are fighting, become distracted by the fight.

      We started, implementing the green scams, with very reliable, hydrocarbon powered electrical grids. And are adding intermittent power sources following a ‘plan’ to get to zero hydrocarbon burning that absolutely cannot work. What would it be like to live in a country that did not burn hydrocarbons to produce electricity? Brown outs that last days and weeks for a large percentage of the population.

      How will electric power be rationed? Based on ability to pay? Based on the consequences and risks? In a cold country like Canada people would freeze to death in the winter.

      A large city/country becomes a disaster/chaos zone within a few days without electric power. Countries/capital cities require 24/7 electricity to power…. refrigeration, air conditioning, heat buildings, lighting, ventilation, stoves, electric trains, computers, cell phone communication systems, cell phone charges, and so on. Gas stations require electricity. All of the systems that supply clean water and remove and clean the waste water, require electricity. Large major cities are not safe, habitable without electricity on a long-term basis.

      The long-term consequences of spending ourselves to death and losing more and more industries/jobs to China is more difficult to explain. People do not understand that economic collapse is just as dangerous/risky to our freedom in our own countries, as is a world war. People understand individual bankruptcy and the consequences, homelessness or social ‘assistance’. They do not seem to get/comprehend currency/country economic collapse/failure.

      130

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Great outline of the situation.
        The problem is so deeply embedded into our societies that there seems to be no easy way to fix or neutralise it.

        60

      • #
        Ronin

        Lots of luck if you live in a highrise near the city, windows that don’t open and lifts that don’t work, lugging food to the 25th floor if you are 75 and have a dicky hip, heart or knee.

        40

  • #

    Malcolm needs his head read…

    I have seen fads come and go. In the end its not who you follow or what you say, but what the impact of your decisions is on yourself. Being in with the “in crowd” can make you feel special but does not pay your bills. Or put another way, you can be in a group of cars going above the speed limit and yet the speed camera will book the lot of you – that in crowd did not help at all…

    Its time to jettison the feel good crowd and go with what actually works, and what is in our long term best interest. Unreliable renewables will NEVER EVER power our economy at competitive prices without astronomical storage investment and cost, or having the equivalent of the current grid on standby for when the RE fails, which is very very often. The sooner the reality is followed the sooner we can move forward in prosperity rather than destroying our country in historys most destructive display of virtue signalling ever seen.

    80

    • #
      Ronin

      Malcolm is a treacherous SOB who is only interested in money, his and his son’s.
      It is totally beyond me why the Liberal party hasn’t kicked this bounder to the kerb.

      30

  • #
    Kim

    A strong suggestion \ challenge to Malcolm Turnbull. If he says the mining-dependent region needs a ‘post coal future’ why doesn’t he put his money where his mouth is :- via the use of zoning regulations – ie via private finance – create a town that is 100% fully off grid – off grid electricity generation (solar and wind), off grid water and off grid sewerage, and off grid rubbish disposal. Completely self contained. Complying 100% with your ‘renewable’ and ‘sustainable’ criteria. Implement it and let’s have it running with plenty of publicity – let’s see how it goes.

    90

  • #
    John Hultquist

    Tony @ #20 wrote “There are ONE BILLION people on the Planet who have no access at all to electrical power.”

    I am now old enough to be a curmudgeon and I have always lived in a house with electricity. About age 5 our parents bought a Philco refrigerator with a small freezing compartment. In 1954 we got a b/w TV, and a few years later we had a large window AC.

    A couple of years ago I searched up a bit of history of electrification in the USA. One can easily find dates of “firsts”, but I was interested in the “how” of things.
    The small town (near where I now live; Ellensburg) got its first power facility because a person that worked with Edison in NYC came to the West Coast, specifically Seattle, and then traveled about. He worked with a person of means in the town, and directed building a small electric power facility in the downtown. Later, a hydro facility (west of town) was possible because of a canal that allowed a sufficient “head” of water. Sometime after that, the city took over, improved, and expanded the electrification of the town.

    Now, to me, it seems that electrification is something that requires international financing and engineering – working with a frequently dysfunctional National government.
    If there is not a study on this idea, there should be.

    30

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Or you could install a mid sized battery, like small Australian towns are increasingly doing. The idea that the unused roof top solar can be stored for a literal rainy day, has a lot of appeal in a country which has plentiful sunshine. The centralised model of gigantic coal power plants, with expensive and complicated distribution networks is over, just like the old belt take-offs used in factories back in the day.

      013

      • #
        Richard Owen No.3

        Probably aimed more at reducing the cost of electricity which has got more expensive since renewables were introduced.
        Are those towns going completely off-grid?
        If not, then what keeps the power flowing at the right frequency etc.?
        And the Hornsdale ‘big’ battery got $8 million in subsidy from ARENA and some favourable 10 year contracts from the State government. Do those small towns get any?

        40

      • #
        • #
          Richard Owen No.3

          Battery comes from China.
          Costs “about” $200,000 (not including solar panels)
          and will supply 40 houses, so $5,000 per household. Cheaper than a stand alone system.

          I think a back-up diesel generator would improve the system.

          60

          • #
            el gordo

            Small iIndigenous communities are moving towards renewables and this has reduced their need for diesel. Probably not cost effective to have a battery.

            04

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Which is cheaper than individual batteries, which is why the mid size is attractive

            02

      • #

        Peter Fitzroy writes this:

        Or you could install a mid sized battery, like small Australian towns are increasingly doing. The idea that the unused roof top solar can be stored for a literal rainy day, has a lot of appeal in a country which has plentiful sunshine.

        And then you have Sydney, as I mentioned in that earlier Comment.

        The average household power consumption – 20KWH per day

        The average Sydney power consumption – 116,322,000KWH per day

        Please Peter Fitzroy, show me THAT battery.

        That’s why you need the centralised model of gigantic coal fired power plants. Something has to deliver that power for 24 hours of every day, something actually capable of doing it.

        Tony.

        200

        • #
          Hanrahan

          As a believer in free speech I never give red thumbs. Congratulations, you have just forced me reverse that commitment.

          30

        • #

          Tony
          You beat me to it.
          Peters musings do not account for the need to have diesel generator backup for the significant periods when the panels cannot provide.

          Remote mine sites also are using solar to good effect to reduce fuel bills for the on site generators, but the key here is that they have complete capacity from the generators which are already in place. Thus they never have power failures and the solar can be competitive with fuel which has to be trucked large distances.

          As you say though, the remote mining site/town model simply does not work at all when we have large industry and large cities requiring huge amts of power 365/24/7 – at realistic pricing. The cost of the battery backup and grid backup necessary is astronomical – otherwise it would already have been done.

          50

        • #
          Raving

          One million Sydney homes, each serviced with a 110 KWH Ford 150 truck backing up to and sucking from the grid. Not to mention people driving around on these 3,000 lbs battery pack beauties. Yours for only $68k (CDN) once production ramps up. Own more than one 3,000 lbs battery and have it constantly tethered to your home. For that matter, go off the grid completely

          The mind boggles at the future, not to mention the state of industry

          50

          • #
            Raving

            It means that we are headed towards a decentralized power system where each person is responsible for storing their own base power supply.

            A gasoline tank and engine is a method of storing base power supply. This jusxtaposed to riding around on a mobile 3000 lbs battery

            Reliable base power is a privelige and not a right. Expect starting to pay through the nose for it

            40

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Which long term will end in tears.

              Breaking up the grid is classic divide and conquer, a form of medaevil energy fuedalism …. and backwards thinking.

              10

        • #
          Robber

          Ah yes, all we need now is big batteries.
          How about that “worlds biggest battery” in SA, all 129 MWhr, tha could supply all of SA for about 5 minutes.
          Or supply 6,000 houses for one day.

          30

          • #
            Ronin

            The ‘big battery ‘ can barely get Adelaidians through an ad on Home and Away.

            10

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            Raving

            Yes but the Ford F150 scale battery will power a house for 4 days, spanning multiple solar recharge cycles.

            It is a move back in the direction of the home(stead)
            – septic/sewage tank
            – water cistern
            – power generator https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators#?cat=6&cat=214&cat=217&cat=249
            – Lp gas supply
            – vegetable garden / chicken shed

            A dismantling of shared public infrastructure backed by the old idea that each house has a responsibility to be self reliant

            Strangely septic systems, water cisterns, fuel oil heating/ LP storage are all in currant usage – coal heating became too impractical

            Here in Ontario, commercial electric users pay less than residental users. Government is reluctant to raise the cost of doing business.

            Expect residential users to start providing backup capacity for industrial accounts

            All this retrograde to individual service is okay for the home owner but has problems for high density housing. Low density housing results in urban sprawl and more roads and energy usage in transportation

            As Tony pointed out upthread, most of the electric usage/generation has a vested interest in industrial usage. When countries promote renewable energy,they do so with the assumption of divesting themselves of power intensive industry

            China builds ports and power stations to bolster the import of raw materisls and consumption of electrical goods. Its a win win win strategy

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        Ronin

        What charges the battery when it’s dark and still.

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        Dennis

        King Island in Bass Strait electricity grid supplied by wind turbines, solar panels and storage batteries, but most important of all to ensure reliability of electricity supply are diesel fuelled generators.

        A very expensive hybrid system that costs far more than connecting to an electricity grid when available.

        Note Diesel engine generators back up in case the wind doesn’t blow and/or the Sun doesn’t shine.

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          Ronin

          Rottnest Island also has a similar system, just had a look @ 17:30, diesel 95%, unreliables 5%.

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    Penguinite

    The ultimate hypocrisy of Turnball! He is heresy on steroids! But his apparent negative zeal over coal is only skin deep! His real goal is more subsidies for batteries, solar and wind. The Turnball cache is heavily weighted in that direction.

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      Kalm Keith

      I hope it all tumbles soon.

      It must eventually.

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        Ronin

        Can’t be far away Keith, about when Liddell trips off its last turbine for NSW.

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        Serp

        It will tumble after breaking the nexus between Decarbonization and the major financial bodies which profit from it by investing in sporadic generation installations. Here in Australia that means annulling the RET legislation.

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    Ronin

    What OZ is really building is two separate power systems, one is a ‘real’ dispatchable system, the other, a shadow hobbyist system which needs crutches to stand up alone.

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    KevJ

    So where is the “alternative ” argument??
    Why is there no “alternative ” discussion in education??
    There is a ton (tonne) of information here courtesy of Jo, OldOzzie, Tony etc..
    But where is the investigative journalism? Someone that will grab this information and run with it.
    It just feels like we are all Lemmings and are simply going with the flow…
    When sport, TV, and the pubs close due to blackouts, then perhaps people will take notice.. Or perhaps not..😄

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      el gordo

      The alternative argument can be heard through the Murdocracy, but that is all we have. Nevertheless, Australians are slightly better off than Chinese citizens.

      We won’t see a real alternative through the MSM until climate changes.

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    Kalm Keith

    Did anyone else feel that tremor?

    It felt like someone getting upset and stamping their foot.

    https://joannenova.com.au/2021/05/no-news-g7-says-it-will-stop-doing-what-its-mostly-not-doing-china-will-keep-financing-belt-n-road-coal/#comment-2429343

    The ultimate in credentialism: facts and reality are irrelevant in the phd club.

    KK

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