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The French once did a political purge of the military and look what happened to them

Moves continue in the US to remove “extremists” from the Military.  Though no one seems to know the definition of extremeist, nor what will happen to anyone identified as one.

Damage to the cathedral at Soissons, France, WWI (32648880256).jpg

Every illegal regime that comes to power by means of a coup lives in constant fear of the same thing happening to them. It’s their abiding characteristic and the reason they regularly have mass purges.

— The Pointman, How the Purge of the Military is Being Done

In 1899 the hard left gained power in France, and purged “the two main” conservative institutions — the church and the military. James S. Corum describes what happened and how 15 years later, it was a bloodbath in the first month of the war against the Germans, the French lost a quarter of a million men — fully one fifth of their field army.

When a Great Democracy Politicized the Military

James S. Corum,  American Thinker

Even without Facebook the French government still had ways to filter out their political opponents.

In their desire to remold France according to Jacobin principles, the Left Bloc decided that conservative officers had to go. The government announced in 1901 that promotions in the army would no longer be an internal matter of the military promotion boards but would be under the purview of the War Department, run by the political ministers.

Under General André, the War Ministry initiated a secret system of surveillance and informants to collect information on the political, social, and religious background of officers. A network of Freemasons, leftist government officials, and leftist officers send information on French officers directly to the War Ministry. A vast system of secret files was amassed, eventually amounting to files on 19,000 of the 25,000 regular officers. The War Ministry used the files to push the careers of officers known to favor the left, while adherence to Catholic practices or familial and social contacts with the old aristocracy, were enough to dead-end even the most competent officer’s career.

The effect on the troops was so predictable:

Morale plummeted when it was obvious the promotion system was rigged….

The politicization of the army in the decade prior to World War I had an enormous effect. Many good officers left the French army as politically correct mediocrities were promoted. The officer education standards fell dramatically as applications to the elite military academies of France, which mostly consisted mainly of officer cadets from conservative and religious families, fell dramatically. In 1897 there had been 1,920 applications to École Spéciale Militaire de Saint-Cyr, France’s West Point. By 1907, however, the number of applicants was halved. In 1900, 42% of the artillery officers were graduates of the elite École Polytechnique. In 1913, only 13% of artillery officers were graduates. The average scores on the academy entrance exams also fell in proportion to the decline in applications. And not only the officer corps was demoralized, but the professional NCO Corps also abandoned the military. In 1900 72,000 NCOs had re-enlisted. In 1911 only 41,000.

And the cost was a quarter of a million men, and almost the entire nation of France.

More than a decade of politicization of the military resulted in a French army that went to war in August 1914 with appallingly poor leadership and training. The great social experiment of the Left Bloc was a bloodbath. In the first month of the war, the French army lost 250,000 casualties—20% of the field army. Faced with an existential crisis, the French government announced a truce between the left and the conservatives. For the duration of the war, with France’s survival at stake, meritocracy would be the only standard in the French army.

Meritocracy was always going to win in the end. But it might have been German meritocracy that won.

h/t David E. Another Ian.

9.8 out of 10 based on 80 ratings

160 comments to The French once did a political purge of the military and look what happened to them

  • #
    Steve Richards

    Absolutely fascinating!

    220

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    It’s really useful to look for answers in well documented past events like this.

    Unfortunately it seems that we can only see what went wrong when we look back with 120 years of hindsight and maybe we need to improve on that.

    Before the documented analysis of France 1900 there was the “Revolution” but if lessons were learnt from that they were ignored in 1900.

    Lessons abound in history, but the ultimate conclusion must be that societies will be driven and torn by human greed and arrogance until they can no longer function and so collapse.

    Anyone who thinks we aren’t in a state of collapse right now ain’t looking.

    The power hungry will push any buttons deemed necessary for their own benefit.

    After world war 11 Australia seemed to have honesty and clarity of purpose; that lasted maybe twenty three years before rational thinking started to lose out to the dark side.

    Looking out from Australia surely we can see the destruction of Europe and Britain over the last twenty five years and the recent weirdness in the fall of the U.S.

    The false compassion flag has been flown and the victimhood meme has torn the West apart.

    Smothering the masses with rampant Verbalism from the media can cover over each and every con perpetrated by the new elite. That’s all it takes to hypnotise the population and control them.

    Why do we no longer judge political statements against a rational standard. There is no standard; even the courts can be “controlled” as required.

    So easy, why use guns anymore.

    KK

    520

    • #

      Interesting you should say 25 years.

      https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/history_en

      In 1993 the EEC became an entirely different entity , seeing itself as a single country rather than a collection of sovereign states, with the so called single market then the Euro cementing this change

      https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/history_en

      Since then Europe has seen its destiny as a Single entity. Britain saw it was diverging from its own interests and the very first time we were offered a referendum, after twenty years of asking, we voted to leave.

      Mind you it took four years before the elite would do what they were told and to this day, as with vaccines, fishing, northern Ireland, the EU is intent on causing us trouble to punish us for leaving their club.

      The history of Europe is very different to the history of Britain which never had a European empire so was an onlooker and participant in keeping the powers apart that might harm our interests. Good riddance to this unpleasant club which seems to have got into bed with Russia and china.

      Hopefully, climate apart, we can restore our sanity.

      340

      • #
        Custer Van Cleef

        After 40 years and a series of baby steps, you went from a “trading bloc” to “hey, where did our sovereignty go?”

        Major and Blair – maybe the main culprits – did their bit, signing treaties, giving control to Brussels.

        The lesson is don’t join anything that’s hard to extricate yourself from.

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        • #
          tonyb

          Ah! said the lobster. This water is nice and warm…

          Gradually turn up the heat and the lobster is unaware it is being cooked. A metaphor for much of officialdom, as for example, the low heat of climate change becomes the fierce heat of Climate Emergency! Climate Crisis! Climate Armageddon!!

          41

    • #
      Ian

      “Lessons abound in history, but the ultimate conclusion must be that societies will be driven and torn by human greed and arrogance until they can no longer function and so collapse”

      True and unfortunately it is Conservative governments and right wing media that promote greed and to some extent arrogance. Tax cuts for the middle class but little assistance for the poorest Australians. Private health insurance but inadequate funding for Medicare. Assisted child care for all Australians with family incomes less than $251,248 but those on unemployment benefit get a rise of $3.57 per day. Arrogance is personified by Morrison avoiding answering parliamentary questions by referring them to ministerial colleagues. News Corp with its pro-right wing journalists such as Andrew Bolt, Miranda Devine, Chris Kenny. Peta Credlin.

      Time for a change. But Morrison iwill hang on like grim death as he now has no parliamentary majority.

      235

      • #
        Demon39

        Another way to look at these things Ian. Tax cuts are for people that pay tax. If you dont pay tax you dont get a cut. Private health insurance is paid for by the individual. It is extra that is paid . Medicare is for people that cant pay the extra. If you dont want private health then dont buy it. Assisted child care is for people that have an income ie they work. Unemployment benefits are for people that dont work and therefor dont contribute to the tax intake. The journalists you mention are all on pay for view. If you dont like their views then dont buy their content. Unlike the ABC where it is funded by the public purse and can it doesnt matter what tripe is posted there is no blowback. You see if no people watch the ABC they can still continue but if no people watch Sky etc then the shows get cancelled. The general public decide what views they prefer based on the amount of viewers.

        360

        • #
          Ian

          I wrote “Tax cuts for the middle class but little assistance for the poorest Australians”

          Your reply ” Tax cuts are for people that pay tax. If you dont pay tax you dont get a cut.”

          As you can see I didn’t suggest a tax cut for the poorest Australians but said they got little assistance. Not at al the same thing.

          I wrote “Private health insurance but inadequate funding for Medicare.”

          Your reply ” Private health insurance is paid for by the individual. It is extra that is paid . Medicare is for people that cant pay the extra. If you dont want private health then dont buy it. ”

          The government gives a rebate to all singles with incomes less than $140,000 and families with incomes less than $280,00. It is not a case of “if you don’t want private insurance don’t buy it” but a case of many people would like private health cover but cannot afford to buy it. As for Medicare most Australians have to make a co-contribution which is stopping some people from using necessary health services..

          I wrote “Assisted child care for all Australians with family incomes less than $251,248 but those on unemployment benefit get a rise of $3.57 per day.”

          Your reply “Assisted child care is for people that have an income ie they work. Unemployment benefits are for people that dont work and therefor dont contribute to the tax intake.”

          Assisted child care for those with family incomes of $4,831 per week but an increase in unemployment benefit of $25 per week is hardly equitable.

          I wrote “News Corp with its pro-right wing journalists such as Andrew Bolt, Miranda Devine, Chris Kenny. Peta Credlin.”

          Your reply “The journalists you mention are all on pay for view. If you dont like their views then dont buy their content.

          Those journalists still get coverage on free to air TV and I choose to buy the Australian as despite it right wing bias it is the least worst of the Australian newspapers. Your point about the ABC is valid

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            That’s better: in fact an excellent example of the new VST or Verbalism Smothering Technique used so well in modern goat herding.
            Outstanding.

            110

          • #
            TedM

            Right wing bias, by interpretation, presenting the facts.

            20

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Thank you Ian.

        Thank you for providing a good example of what I referred to.

        The sense of victimhood comes out so well that anybody could feel at home there; perhaps even MalEx444 could find solace there. Outstanding verbalism.

        Then the subtle trick of comparing apples with lemons to infer another injustice, but the best one was painting Mr Morrison as the renewables hating monster. He who presides over the greatest influx of $Renewables$ we’ve seen.

        An excellent example, thank you.

        Perhaps not the best illustration of hyper verbalism, but worth one star.

        KK

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        • #
          Ian

          ” but the best one was painting Mr Morrison as the renewables hating monster.”

          You must have been referring to a post other than mine as I made no mention whatsoever of renewables

          011

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            You mentioned Morrison handing other matters to other ministerial colleagues, like GHunt, who handles the renewables spray.

            40

            • #
              Ian

              No evidence ce that Morrison passed questions on renewables to Hunt or any other minister in particular. That’s merely an assumption on your part not supported by a shred of evidence.

              05

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                I’m confident, well up to a point, that if I looked I could find a skerrick of evidence to link Scomo to either the approval process or financial boosting of Aussie Renewables.

                20

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              Yes, that was a partial assertion.
              It just proves that every insertion must be done carefully with any deviations to left or right being liable to cause discomfort and possibly long term trauma.
              I was probably thinking of Matt Keane from NSW who is big into Renewables, but I’m sure that GregH would speak to MattK about these matters.
              Scomo would hear about developments on the grapevine.

              KK

              40

      • #
        PeterW

        According to the Left.
        “Greed” is allowing people to keep their own money, unless you offer them something that they want strongly enough to pay the price you are asking.

        “Arrogance” is thinking that people are capable of making their own decisions on how to spend their own money.

        “Generosity” is giving away Other People’s Money that didn’t cost you anything.

        OK……..

        [I’m not sure why your comments are getting caught Peter. There have been a few people lately — for no good reason — being picked up suddenly but the autofilter? – jo]

        40

    • #
      Lawrie

      Josef Stalin also purged his professional Officer Corps resulting in over 3000 senior officers being shot on trumped up charges. Within months the German Army attacked and the Soviet army lost 1,500,000 of it’s soldiers through being surrounded by the fast moving panzer forces. The leadership destroyed by Stalin’s purges could possibly have saved many of these soldiers for later battles. Luckily for Stalin his armies in the far east were largely exempt from the purge allowing an obscure General Zhukov to rise to prominence and eventually save the Soviet Union.

      The US and to a lesser extent Australia is destroying the morale of their armed forces through PC. It should be remembered that very few leftist thinking people join the Armed Forces. Soldiers are generally very conservative in their outlook believing in family, country and flag and quite often are believers in God. Leftists are none of these things and would sell the country down the drain rather than risk their lives defending it.

      270

    • #

      Aloha! Tony Blair and the lot all members of the Fabian Society! A 19th century think tank that promoted long term and steady marxism through the education and political system. Seems their time has come and nothing purifies evil intent better than sunlight and spotlights! Upper class vs working class. No matter how you stack the Pyramid of Power money(capital)is always at the top! Change the names and the isms and its still money on top!

      20

  • #
    PeterS

    History has a very strong tendency of being repeated over and over. We never learn.

    150

    • #
      el gordo

      Its not so simple, France endured a lot of political disruption throughout the 19th Century and the Industrial Revolution came later than Britain. By the early 20th the Belle Epoch was upon them and the new working classes had become socialists, which may explain the purging of the military.

      It was dumb of the French president to stir up enmity with Germany prior to WW1, they were looking for trouble and poorly equipped to handle it.

      103

      • #
        GlenM

        The French were embarrassed by their defeat in 1870 and their territorial losses. They missed the organisational skills of Bonaparte.

        70

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        It is a feature of this website that you and I can post exactly the same comment and elicit completely different responses

        117

        • #
          el gordo

          That is because I’m a utopian socialist and we agree with the right on climate change.

          04

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            So instead of looking at the comment, the dominant thought here is to ascertain that if you are on the left, you should be cancelled. So logical

            119

            • #
              Harves

              Was that an attempt at irony? Complaining about being ‘cancelled’ (because you get some red thumbs) despite being able to continue posting, while simultaneously cheering on the banning of conservatives from global social media.

              360

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Blaming the Victim? Why don’t you address the issue instead, or is that the only shot in your locker?

                121

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘ … you should be cancelled. So logical.’

              Cruel and unusual punishment.

              03

            • #
              PeterW

              The “issue”, Fitz is that you haven’t been cancelled. Just mocked.

              40

          • #
            Ian

            “That is because I’m a utopian socialist and we agree with the right on climate change’

            How do readers know you are a Utopian Socialist and how do they know Peter Fitzroy isn’t a Utopian Socialist. And how do they know what Utopian Socialism is?

            Readers see a post from Peter Fitzroy’ or me or a very few others and click on the red button automatically without reading any further. Comments that disturb the echo chamber are not at all welcome.

            Fortunately Ms Nova and the moderators allow the wider view to be published.

            22

            • #
              Hanrahan

              Fitz et al call us far right but what draws us here is not shared politics but a shared view of science and of those pushing anti-science.

              90

              • #
                Ian

                “Fitz et al call us far right but what draws us here is not shared politics but a shared view of science and of those pushing anti-science.”

                You seem not to realise that by far the majority of comments are pushing the right wing view and demonising anything that is counter to that view.

                There are less and less science focussed threads threads and more and more that are politically focussed, From January 30 to today there are about 5 political threads for every science thread. And pushing anti-science seems the main game in the science threads as most are anti climate science

                01

            • #
              PeterW

              Ian….

              Ad Homs will not win you this argument.

              Fitz posts rubbish. We read it and respond accordingly.

              20

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          That’s a result of historical memory at work.

          70

    • #
      OldOzzie

      Joseph Stalin’s Paranoid Purge Almost Cost Russia’s Victory in World War II

      The effects of the purge could be seen in the disastrous winter war with Finland in 1939-1940.

      Here’s What You Need to Know: Joseph Stalin purged his officer corps of thousands of talented leaders before the start of World War II. It almost cost Russia the war.

      Officer corps expect to suffer heavy losses in war. The entire 1914 class of France’s St. Cyr military academy, for example, perished in World War I. But no officer corps ever suffered the degree of loss that the Red Army suffered in peacetime, at the hands of its own government, during dictator Joseph Stalin’s paranoid purge of 1937-1938.

      Paranoia in the Communist Party

      The first hint of the slaughter to come emerged at a conference of the Communist Party in March 1937, just as Stalin’s Great Purge was reaching its heights of terror. The craven, incompetent commissar for war, Marshal Kliment Voroshilov, told those assembled: “Happily, we have not as yet discovered many enemies in the army. I can say happily in the hope that there are not very many enemies in the Red Army.” But Stalin’s ranking lackey, Premier Vyacheslav Molotov, immediately contradicted Voroshilov. “If we have wreckers in every branch of the economy, can we imagine that in one place alone, the War Department, there are none?” said Molotov ominously. “It would be absurd to do so. The War Department is a very large affair, and its work will be checked not now but a little later. And it will be examined very rigorously.”

      100

    • #
      czechlist

      Time is linear but history is circular

      70

  • #
    John R Smith

    I guess a political purification of the military was made more possible by ending the draft.
    I would think even the volunteer US military is heavily dependent on the Red state populace.
    “Tell me Sergeant, on a scale of 1 to 10, Nancy Pelosi or Donald Trump?”
    Weird that kids that are ordered to stop and salute the flag twice a day will experience the implied suggestion that patriotism is extremism.

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  • #
    Penguinite

    Take note USA! The threat of a real insurrection hangs heavy on Pelosi. I just hope the US Defense Force has more character than their French counterparts. Early WW2 did not bode well. The French were totally inadequate.CCP will be watching developments closely.

    232

    • #
      PeterS

      The two mindsets of morality (doing what one believes is right regardless of what we are told) and obedience (doing what we are told regardless of what one believes is right) can sometimes clash. We are seeing it today. History shows when they do clash it sometimes sparks a violent reaction by the people or the military, but too often not soon enough to stop the rot. When it isn’t quick enough history shows many people are slaughtered all in the name of obedience. Eventually though morality prevails but not without much hardship. Even then, the cycle repeats. We never learn. Given the American people in general are willingly ignorant of what has happened at the recent US election and what is already happening today, the question is will the US military “cross the Rubicon” instead to save the American Constitutional Federal Republic of the United States? Only time will tell but I have my doubts.

      212

    • #
      PeterS

      Perhaps this is one reason why I don’t hold much hope of the US military doing anything about saving America from itself let alone winning the next major war:
      The US military is increasingly broken.

      131

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      Pelosi is a psychopath. It should hang heavy on her for what she has perpetrated. But I’m not sure she’s involved in the CCP. The Biden’s obviously are, and by looking back, it seems that Obama was too as he was Biden’s handler at the time.

      The CCP aren’t just watching on as America self-destructs. They are actively funding it.

      232

      • #
        OldOzzie

        Pelosi is a psychopath.

        WTH? Drunk, Drugged or Insane Pelosi Giggles, Proclaims “Open Biden” as Her New Magic Word (VIDEO)

        Speaking on Thursday, Pelosi said, “In order to open these doors, we do not say ‘Open Sesame,’ we say, ‘Open Biden.’ That’s our magic word. ‘Open Biden,’ I love it!”

        The cringe video is reminiscent of a September 2020 ABC interview where she paused after being asked a question and randomly blurted out, “Good morning. Sunday morning.”

        Even ABC anchor George Stephanopoulos looked at Pelosi as if she was out of her mind.

        140

      • #
        Dave in the States

        “But I’m not sure she’s involved in the CCP.”

        She has steadfastly refused to remove Eric Swalwell from the highly sensitive Intel Committee.

        161

      • #
        Hanrahan

        I agree that Pelosi may be an outlier and not involved with the CCP. This is prolly because she has collected wealth and power without the Chinese. I don’t think it is ideological.

        10

  • #
    Anton

    The idea that the French army would have stopped the German invasion in 1914 without loss of a quarter of a million men in 1914 is nonsense. The French harried the left flank of the German advance, which was forced to wheel south and forget about taking Paris. Then came the biggest battle of the war at the Marne and the French won that too. France won because a gap opened up in the German line during that wheeling process, was spotted by air, and exploited. The Germans were pushed back several dozen miles to the Aisne and then trench warfare began.

    No doubt the French army would have been in a better state but for political interference by the Left, but it did what it had to do and, given the conditions at the Marne, it could not have done it much more cheaply. The German plan had been to knock France out before Russia had mobilised its army properly and then send the German troops east by train against Russia, thereby avoiding a two-front war. It failed and Germany ultimately lost.

    100

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Context is everything.
    In 1870 the Franco-Prussian war was a major loss to France where they ceded 2 provinces to the new German state, which istantly becomes the most powerful nation on the continent
    It was the also the Belle Epoch where everything was getting better, and in Europe the idea of war had lost currency (Sleepwalkers, Christopher Clark)

    Blaming the left both then and now is just laziness

    120

    • #
      David Wojick

      History cannot be explained. That makes it fun.

      80

      • #
        William Astley

        I agree David.

        History is looking back. It is fun to talk about, but it does not really help solve any problems.

        There is an urgency about what is happening now…..

        This is not a theoretical problem. Capitalism vs communism.

        This is a real problem.

        The US, Canada, Australia, Italy, Spain, Brazil, India, France, UK and so on have all been attacked by a computer designed virus, that is an amalgam (merger) of three different viruses. The software representative of the merged virus thing was then modified using a supercomputer to be able to defeat the human immune protection and to cause specific organ damage.

        The Chinese are world leader is AI supercomputing applications. The first ‘AI’ problem solved has a perfect software representation of any virus like entity…. And a second complex software package that acted like a software person to ‘evolve’ the software representation to defeat the human immune system.

        Covid did not evolve in humans prior to its release. There would have been evidence. It would have taken years where covid was spread from person to person and human real evolution of the a real virus (three different species that somehow merged in in a market and then spread for years) would have changed some of the key virus code that is required to cause its deadly attack.

        http://joannenova.com.au/2020/05/is-coronavirus-man-made-the-bat-virus-it-evolved-from-appears-to-be-faked/

        For example, the covid virus has special code in it’s design, to anesthetize the throat (as the pain of the initial attack on the throat would have caused people to isolate. Covid attacks people first in the throat and then moves on attack the lungs and other organs) to help the virus spread.

        Covid was designed to be highly contagious and to cause complex, long term human problems. That is why we are frightened of it and why our economies collapsed.

        This unique deadly virus did not exist in the past because it took deadly human technology to develop it ….

        And a very sneaky successful propaganda plan to hide the covid plan and the covid cures from the public/government Zombies.

        Sneaky propaganda is getting Smiley Government Zombies who believe propaganda about covid, about climate change, about the green scams, about the great reset, about BLM, and so on and like to play the glamorous game.

        Because of technology and because China has a plan to defeat the US, and because China has been able to attack the US using sneaky, green tactics, the age we live is unique.

        i.e. In the past, wars were won with conventional weapons. China is taking over the world using toxic ideas, cold war tactics, and weaponized capitalism/company/industry domination.

        China is playing win. We are trying to stop climate change by spending our countries to death.

        212

      • #
        Lance

        History cannot be unlived. History is a Fact because it is Past and cannot be changed.
        History cannot be explained, unless the teller of history is biased, the methods of the teaching compromised, the objective facts distorted, or the present listeners ignorant/incapable/unwilling/unable to think

        History can Teach. At least to those willing, able, and brave enough to learn.

        History stands alone because it is fact. It needs neither support or dissent or critique because is “Is”.

        Critics of history, ideological historians, all have agendas based in the present.

        One may study History, or disagree with historic views and politics, however; one may not change anything but current belief and perception of history.
        The facts of history are immutable. The perceptions of it are fluid.

        90

        • #
          Denny

          History cannot be unlived.

          Great sentence. Just like a person can’t unsee something. What a tragedy to try to erase history when so much can be gained.

          I’ve just thought back to all these insane protests against statues in America. Why don’t we take it to the ultimate conclusion. Let’s erase everything that reminds us of the transgressions of our forefathers.

          There is a State of Washington. Let’s relocate all Washingtonians and the NUKE the entire state. Wipe it off the earth. Let’s do the same to all cities and counties which are named Jefferson and Jackson.

          What a liberating event it would be. Just wipe it all off our conscience to show once and for all how Woke we are.

          America has been taken over by morons. And history illiterate morons at that.

          10

    • #
      Hanrahan

      You would say that, wouldn’t you.

      70

    • #
      Lance

      Hi Peter 🙂 Yes, context is everything.

      In 1870, British Officers wore red coats so that their men would not lose faith if the officer was wounded in battle.

      That is why French Officers wear brown trousers.

      131

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Blaming the left both then and now is just laziness.’

      Agreed, we are in the 21st century and the green/left alliance has nothing in common with real socialists.

      25

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        and by extension the right is no longer aligned with conservatives

        29

        • #
          el gordo

          The Conservatives are a broad church and at the moment we have a strong centre right government.

          16

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            What are the limits? how far right and how far left?

            06

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              About 3.69 km each way.

              50

            • #
              el gordo

              Its a natural variable, inside the majors there are splinter groups seeking greater recognition. Even though the Australian government is hanging by a thread, they should romp home in the next election.

              With the US military situation its an attempt to get rid of the hawks and replace them with doves. American Adventurism has run its course, with drone warfare and smart bombs its time to dismantle standing armies and battle fleets.

              15

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                So you don’t know, el gordo this now just an assertion. I could equally say the opposition holds the centre and part of the centre right.

                13

              • #
                el gordo

                The ALP is part of the green/left alliance and its highly unlikely that the masses will vote for them, so the centre right will retain power at the Federal level for another term.

                The ABC is centre left, it is the mouthpiece of the green/left alliance, the propaganda wing. When that organisation returns to the centre you will know the game is over for your side of politics.

                13

          • #
            Peter C

            The Conservatives are a broad church and at the moment we have a strong centre right government.

            I am glad that you think so.

            30

    • #
      PeterW

      It was the also the Belle Epoch where everything was getting better, and in Europe the idea of war had lost currency (Sleepwalkers, Christopher Clark)

      Blaming the left both then and now is just laziness

      The belief that change can be made without suffering adverse consequences has been one of the signal features of failing cultures throughout history.

      Contrary to the comforting delusion that we are somehow “special”, having a “divine right “ to peace and prosperity, one of the recurring patterns in human social behaviour is that bad decisions lead to bad consequences. The reason that the “Left” are prime targets for blame is that they just happen to be the common causal agent AND the changes are a part of the Left’s core doctrine – to view everything through the lens of class-conflict.

      History may be complex, but it still happens to be our best window through which to examine human behaviour en-masse.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        What rubbish, What was Germany before WWI, WWII, Republicans got the USA all sorts of trouble highlighted by vietnam. But blame the left, what a crock

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        • #
          PeterW

          Fitz…

          Prior to WW2 it was not even mildly controversial to note that National Socialism, Soviet Socialism and Fascism were all members of the same family, having the same characteristics.

          They were all highly authoritarian and had the shared belief that Government should control the means of a Production, Distribution and Exchange. Whether the Government claimed titular ownership or merely put a gun to the collective heads of “private” owners made no real difference in reality.

          Everything else is slogans and symbolism.

          It was only after the left found it convenient to distance themselves from their political co-theorists did they start to demonise the National Socialists. Prior to the invasion of Russia, they signed treaties and hailed each other as comrades.

          You know that this is true, even as you deny it.

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            Peter Fitzroy

            You have not studied history, and the proof is in this post

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              PeterW

              Fitz…
              I have studied history well enough to realise that it doesn’t fit your political theory. It never has, but that has never bothered you.

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            • #
              PeterW

              C’mon Fitz..

              Which of these is incorrect?
              Lenin, Stalin and Hitler all based their theories on group-identity and conflict. The Marxists on class and the National Socialists on race.

              All of the above insisted on government control of Production, Distribution and Exchange, by force when necessary.

              All of the above in reality ran their nations by force, for the benefit of a small oligarchy.
              All of the above demanded that the individual be subservient to the nation ruling oligarchy.

              The supposed dichotomy between Left and Right is one of the greatest lies of all time. The real distinction is between societies that are free and those which are authoritarian.

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        el gordo

        China and Russia are not involved in class conflict because they are free-enterprise economies. The US remains the biggest and strongest military power in the world, nobody will take them on, but the days of American Adventurism is coming to a close.

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      R.B.

      You’re the victim of what? Is it a law or moral obligation to agree with Peter?

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    GlenM

    James. S . Corum is correct about the institutional status and purging of the French military, but that does not account for their losses in in the early months of the war. German losses were as grievous as the French at the first battle of the Marne with 250,000 casualties on both sides.it is said the French 75mm artillery saved Paris. My two bobs.

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      Roger Knights

      “it is said the French 75mm artillery saved Paris.”

      And the British “old contemptables.”
      (Sorry if I mangled that term.)

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    robert rosicka

    Spotting an extremist is easy just look for anyone flying the American flag or wearing a MAGA hat !

    Sarc

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    Salome

    What about purging the army of the sorts of extremists who shout Allahu akbar and open fire on their comrades? Or is there a diversity recruitment policy for those?

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    another ian

    Don’t forget that the French did a repeat just before WW 2

    Herschel Smith in “A History of Aircraft Piston Engines” – “Politics and ideology lead to strange things in pre-war (2) France – – ”

    And

    Bill Gunston in “Allied Fighters of WW 2” – “In 1936 a newly elected left wing government nationalised all defence industries, ripping all the old companies apart and forming giant conglomerate groups on a purely geographical basis.”

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    • #
      another ian

      And (IIRC) bought the army another big line of cavalry horses rather that the best heavy tank of the time

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    • #
      Lance

      Q: How can one identify French Tanks? A: 1 forward gear and 4 reverse gears

      Q: Why does the French Navy have glass bottom boats? A: So they can inspect their fleet.

      Q: What is the German translation of Maginot Line? A: Speed Bump.

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    Tilba Tilba

    Every illegal regime that comes to power by means of a coup lives in constant fear of the same thing happening to them. It’s their abiding characteristic and the reason they regularly have mass purges.

    I got this far and sort of lost interest. I assume the writer is drawing a very long bow, and claiming (a) that the win by President Biden was not legitimate, and (b) the Democrats are now going to purge the military of its best soldiers.

    Obviously I disagree … President Biden is the lawful president, and reform in the military is a very good thing, in my view. And that other source of paranoia of course – the Second Amendment … I believe there should be serious gun controls in the US as well.

    And the story about the French Army reforms require handling with some caution … a lot of conclusions are being drawn that are either tenuous or biased, to say the least. And the number of French soldiers killed in 1914 might have been exactly the same under any regime … war in those days was designed to ensure the pointless slaughter of thousands for very little gain.

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      Klem

      Um, I disagree. I believe that Biden is not the legitimate President.

      And i believe that there should be less gun controls in the US. If you don’t like guns, Tilba Tilba, you don’t have to own one. Just leave your neighbors and their guns alone. The first step of totalitarian control is to silence the citizenry, the second step is to disarm them.

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      jelly34

      So,you have just outed yourself as a DemocRAT.Our American friends have had their fire-arms since their birth and statistics have shown that it’s the crims that cause fire-arm deaths and NOT the general populace.Just look at Chicargo,almost all the deaths there are caused by illegal guns.

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        Tilba Tilba

        So, you have just outed yourself as a Democrat.

        How so? I didn’t like Donald Trump and I’m no fan of President Biden. But I do accept that he is the lawfully elected and sworn-in president, and I also believe that gun control would be an excellent step forward – especially ALL the automatic, semi-automatic, assault, and other anti-personnel weapons.

        A few hunting rifles are okay – how many rounds per minute do you need to kill Bambi’s Mother?

        If that makes me a “Democrat” in your mind, so be it. Anyway – being a Democrat would not be a crime, would it? The US remains a democracy – free speech, free association, etc.

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        • #

          So, it’s just the honest people who have to hand in their weapons, and if they don’t, they are the ones who are then ‘criminalised’, charged and jailed, while the bad guys keep ALL of their guns, and in fact will now get MORE of the guns, the ones turned in.

          For the life of me, I can’t figure out why those from the left can’t see this. Not ONE bad guy will hand in a gun ….. of ANY sort.

          Tony.

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            Tilba Tilba

            It’s more a question of changing culture … removing all hand-guns and assault rifles from the legal sphere will – over a generation -lead to a steady decline in weapons and gun violence everywhere. There is a strong correlation internationally between gun control and lower death rates from guns.

            But I’ll stop there … it’s never a subject on which you can change the mind of gun-nuts.

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              another ian

              Switzer1land?

              “it’s never a subject on which you can change the mind of anti-gun-nuts”

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            • #
              glenfromaus

              Tilba states: “… removing all hand-guns and assault rifles from the legal sphere will – over a generation -lead to a steady decline in weapons and gun violence everywhere …”

              Nice *theory*, but the exact opposite occurs in the real world. Take NSW as an example, which has the largest population in Australia:

              I grew up in NSW in the 70’s & 80’s. Whenevere there was a gun used in any way in NSW, it was reported in the media. I can say that the majority (90%+) were criminal usage, but thankfully it was about 1 every month or two. Then, in 1996, John Howard banned guns. Then fast forward 20 years … last year, despite COVID, there was at least one criminal gun usage per week, and during the year there were a few drive-bys (which are a new thing). And all this was by a media that **under reports** gun violence because the reality goes against their theories.

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          • #

            …..it’s never a subject on which you can change the mind of gun-nuts.

            See how they come here and just flat out take advantage of the freedom they are given here to say whatever they like and get away with it, snidely making their drive by insults, looking down on us from their own perceived position of superiority, making assumptions that they always do about things that were never even mentioned.

            And then get all offended and say ….. ‘Hey, I didn’t mean that at all.’

            I made a relevant point and all you can do is snidely insult me, without knowing the first thing about me, putting a false label on me for making that relevant point.

            I’m so glad that you, and your fellow traveller sympathisers come here and do what it is you do, because we never even get the chance to respond at the sites custom made for you leftists, where we don’t even get a chance to make a comment.

            Tony.

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              el gordo

              ‘I’m so glad that you, and your fellow traveller sympathisers come here …’

              The Second Amendment is an accident of history and I know the Vice President is very keen on gun law reform. Do you think Australia’s gun law reform was a mistake?

              ‘… sites custom made for you leftists …’

              Objection, utopian socialists are thrown off many left wing blogs and I find this right wing debating club more appealing.

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              Tilba Tilba

              And then get all offended and say ….. ‘Hey, I didn’t mean that at all.’

              I never get offended – I just like to correct poor comprehension. And being in favour of gun control is a very mainstream policy issue, and a view held by many reasonable people … does not make one a radical socialist or a “fellow traveller” thereof.

              I also like the debates on here and I learn stuff too. Is there a problem with that?

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      Richard Ilfeld

      Suggesting that there should be serious gun control in the US is either ignorant, or a call for confiscation,
      or a call for better law enforcement.

      The writer may not be aware that we have pretty much universal background checks and registrations, and bans on a wide variety of weapons.
      ‘Gun Control’ is attempted. If one is not in the process and listens only to the critics, one might assume this very highly regulated
      device to be unregulated.

      Regulation is not elimination, however; it is possible to believe in the position that citizens should not be allowed to own firearms.
      If that is the position it ought by right be stated explicitly; not with the amorphous euphemism “gun control”.

      When someone is shot in your neighborhood in a home invasion, it is no longer paranoia, it is neighborhood watch.

      It is not paranoid to believe that many wish to deprive Americans of any personal use of firearms, opponents of the Second Amendment are
      very explicit in their aims. It seems all to common that a basic premise of any leftist argument is that those on the right are mentally ill, extreme,
      or otherwise disconnected from reality. To be fair , this is also a basic premise of many right wing arguments re those on the left.

      Like many other topics, there is a vast amount of statistical & objective data on guns and their use in society that might be used to make reasoned arguments.
      The disappointment is, as with so many topics in modern day life, facts are not admissible; and the presumed paranoia of the opposition is the first go to position.

      Sigh!

      However, we do not enforce the crime of a non-registered gun, nor even, often, that of a crime committed with a gun,
      and have almost completely abandoned proactive policing which was very successful reducing gun crime.
      “Gun control” which brings “enforcement” to the law keeper and not the law breakers seems notably perverse, thus significantly disingenuous.

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      R.B.

      Wrote a lot for someone claiming to have lost interest. I’ll give the rest of your comment a miss. I honestly lost interest after that.

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      PeterW

      Tilba….

      You view of war is desperately immature.
      The warfare of that era was never “designed” to be a stalemate. That would imply that stalemate and huge losses (of their own troops) was the intent.
      That is completely at odds with the very obvious desire of each a High Command to achieve the breakthrough.

      It is also at odds with the fact that the Germans sought an Armistice when it became apparent that the Allies could break through the major a German defensive lines whenever they chose.

      The stalemate was the result of defensive technology and tactics outstripping – for a time – offensive ditto. That imbalance was not resolved until the autumn of 1918, with the refinement of training, tactics and technology producing what we now call “combined arms”. Once the success of that strategy had been established, supposedly “stuck in the mud” commanders adopted it with enthusiasm.

      One wonders how the purging of talent and original thinking from theFrench army might have hindered the French from developing it on their own and years earlier. Maybe not, but ……

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      William Astley

      Tilba Tilba….

      The Problem is the Democratic Party of America is busy focusing on political mucking up of the US Military, as opposed to real issues. The Democratic party has stopped all logical discussion about the world and its problem.

      The fake news is 24/7 climate emergency and gun control and gender issues, past issues concerning slavery, what the royal family said that might be not politically correct, and so on…… Fluff… As if there was no real issues to ‘discuss’.

      For example, the Middle East war that goes on forever…. Why? Because two peoples wanting the same land and Iran is run by religious fanatics who fund fights in the middle east.

      Do your remember that a Million Iraqis and Iranians died fighting the pointless Iraqi Iranian war. Remember the child Iran martyrs who walk through Iraq mind fields to clear them? That takes real commitment to a cause and a hateful regium that would send young boys to be killed and maimed.

      Donald Trump had a sneaky plan for Middle East peace. Only one group of people can live on the same land.

      Trump son-in-law’s plan…. was to give control of Jerusalem to the Israel and then to build a underground tunnel to connect the Palestine Territories to form a new country. There would instantly be a new Palestine Country.

      And in addition, all of the Arab countries would give money to a massive fund to rebuild a new Palestine with modern servies, water, and electricity. It is hell now to live in the Palestine territories because they do not have modern services like water all day and electricity all day.

      And the children are taught to hate in the schools which are controlled by the PLO. Organized hate and a problem that can never be solved is madness.

      Logically, there will be two countries side by side and the poor Palestinians will have the services required for tourism and light manufacturing.

      The problem is Trump’s plan which was his son-in-law’s plan worked.

      Biden’s plan… IS going to lead to a war in the Middle East. And Iran getting nuclear weapons.

      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security-saudi/u-s-alarmed-by-frequency-of-attacks-on-saudi-after-houthis-target-oil-heartland-idUSKBN2B01CM

      The Houthi movement said its operation on Sunday using 14 drones and eight ballistic missiles also attacked military targets in the Saudi cities of Dammam, Asir and Jazan.

      U.S. ‘alarmed’ by frequency of attacks on Saudi after Houthis target oil heartland

      DUBAI (Reuters) – The United States on Monday expressed alarm at “genuine security threats” to Saudi Arabia from Yemen’s Iran-aligned Houthis and elsewhere in the region after attacks on the heart of the Saudi oil industry, and it would look at improving support for Saudi defences.

      The real emergency is the US (System/spending/logic/reason is out of control) is spending itself to death (say health care, twice as much spent per person as any Western country, and worse outcomes.) It is a fact that all of the spending on the green stuff, had no measurable effect on the Earth’s climate or atmospheric CO2.

      And we all know it is an absolute fact, that the Jobs and Industries are going and going to China where there is cheap energy.

      Also because the Chinese bought US and Canadian companies and then moved them to China and later let go senior transferred staff. (Nortel and US Rare Earth Manufacturing). The Chinese moved the US Rare Earth processing equipment to China and then proceeded to monopolize the rare earth metals industry. to of course benefit Chinese industry.

      And no Democratic Party of China to sabotage China.

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      • #
        Tilba Tilba

        For example, the Middle East war that goes on forever…. Why? Because two peoples wanting the same land and Iran is run by religious fanatics who fund fights in the middle east.

        I would argue instead that never-ending war in the Middle East is caused / has been caused by two things: (1) US reliance on ME oil – the light sweet crude that is affordable, and (2) the inability of the West and ME to find a durable and just solution for the Palestinian People.

        Donald Trump – let alone Jared Kushner – offered any sort of solution for the Palestinians … all they did was move the US Embassy to Jerusalem.

        The real emergency is the US (System/spending/logic/reason is out of control) is spending itself to death (say health care, twice as much spent per person as any Western country, and worse outcomes.) It is a fact that all of the spending on the green stuff, had no measurable effect on the Earth’s climate or atmospheric CO2.

        The medical industry is a total racket – huge income made by doctors, hospitals, the pharmaceutical industry, and as you say very poor delivery and outcomes. In one of the world’s richest countries countless people live in poor health or even die because they can’t afford medical services. The Democratic Party has tried to fix this and the Republicans go ape.

        The real problem in the US is that over 50% of the people live paycheck to paycheck, and there is a minimum wage of $7.25, while huge wealth is made by the top few percent. Again – the Republicans will not raise the minimum wage, and not ONE Republican voted for the latest relief / stimulus package … I expect that will come back to bite them.

        And we all know it is an absolute fact, that the Jobs and Industries are going and going to China where there is cheap energy.

        The crushing of the working class, the hollowing out of the middle class, and the destruction of Main Street – these are all tragedies caused by multinational corporate power. It certainly wasn’t caused by the Democratic Party – capitalism moves its resources to the lowest-cost countries.

        The Democratic Party didn’t cause the Rare Earths industry to be monopolised by the Chinese … firstly most of those minerals are in fact in China.

        I’m certainly not here to bat for the Dems … I try to be quite centrist and balanced … but I do like to have a view when there are big assumptions made in terms of cause and effect. A lot of people see a problem, and then ascribe to it the wrong cause agent.

        And I’m not even talking about the fringe conspiracy nuttiness here … just basic politics and economics. I agree that expenditure on green projects has to be very sober and effective – but again I don’t buy renewables are the cause of all the ills they have been blamed for.

        Anyway – civilised debate is a good thing. 🙂

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    Environment Skeptic

    Here is a great treatise on the subject of war/reciprocal destruction and in particular, the abnormal conditions of ordinary being existence established by us ourselves. George Gurdjieff’s book, in a series of books written circa 1940 according to entirely new principals that is definitely worth looking at.

    Chapter XLIII – Beelzebub’s Survey of the Process of the Periodic Reciprocal Destruction of Men, or Beelzebub’s Opinion of War”

    https://gurdjieff-heritage-society.org/beelzebub/chapter-xliii-beelzebubs-survey-of-the-process-of-the-periodic-reciprocal-destruction-of-men-or-beelzebubs-opinion-of-war/

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    Kim

    The most fundamental question that everyone asks is “Why bother?”. If you don’t have a positive answer to that then you’re in serious trouble.

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  • #

    Aloha! Lol! Since most of the US military enlistment is from the Old South where more Trumpian types congregate it seems the CCP will be happy to know the US military will be cut in half! Then we have the “acceptable left wing” who are fleeing crumbling blue cities where they are either economic refugees with no other choice or they are court appointed gang members learning new killing skills!

    I remember when Hollywood celebs enlisted in the US military to fight Germany and Japan during WW2. I also remember Elvis in the military stationed in Germany in the late 50s/60s! When do we see Cardie B and the Jonas Bros sign up? One of the last things Obama did as he was leaving office in 2016 was make it legal for women to be drafted for WW3! Do any of the women who voted for him know that?

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    David Maddison

    This is how Leftists always win against conservatives. Leftists have an insatiable lust for power and control. They will “do whatever it takes”.

    Conservatives on the other hand just want to be left alone to peacefully get on with their lives. Leftists fully exploit that.

    The Left take over when conservatives remain silent.

    Freedom and democracy take ongoing vigilance and hard work to maintain. Conservatives still need to learn this.

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    Tilba Tilba

    This is how Leftists always win against conservatives.

    Always win? The Democrats at the moment have a very rare treble – Oval Office, Senate (by a whisker), and the House (by a very thin margin). Conservatives have a super-majority on the US Supreme Court, and the Federalist Society has provided hundreds for federal court positions up and down the ladder.

    Most state legislatures and governorships are in Republican hands, and I would argue that apart from the usual suspects (MSNBC, CNN) the majority of broadcast media (including radio), and most regional newspapers are conservative leaning.

    Most of the PACs, and most of those darkly funded “policy and research” institutes and think-tanks are on the conservative side … the Left have far fewer Koch Brother types at their back.

    If conservatives “just want to be left alone”, why do they fight tooth & nail, and deploy every legal and extra-legal trick, in order to try and win power … I don’t see them doing any less than the Democrats, and in some respects (such as voter suppression) they do a whole lot more.

    On the basis of all this, I can’t accept your premise.

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    Simon B

    So if I’m reading the 21st Century inquisition correctly and the moral arbiters believe the best way to destroy this abhorrent society from the inside is to ban Dr Seuss, but still have Mein Kampf available on Amazon Books, we’ll surely see them destroy the military by forcing soldiers into bright red and pink, because camouflage green is a symbol of past Western aggression abhorred in the tolerant 2020’s? When Western armies are then easier targets for drones, we’ll be holding our breath for the explanation from the Head of the Conciliatory Readjustment Department, of how society was destroyed in a week. Viva la tolerance movement!

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    PeterW

    The US and Australian militaries have been subject to a soft-purge for some time. Expressing a apolitically-Incorrect view on such issues as sexuality or the role of women in combat is well known to be enough to stall – if not effectively end – a career.

    Just look at our own Senior Leadership – politically-reliable to a man – while young officers with a tone of potential are retiring after hitting the wall as Battalion Commanders. Within the military is is said that there are two classes. Those who are there to fight our country’s wars…. and those who are there to further their own careers.

    The recent conflicts should have provided us with a number of tested, proven, competent commanders, but instead we have the Angus Campbells and David Morrisons. Despised by their own troops.

    It’s not new. In the last 1930s our military was undermanned, under-trained and poorly equipped. We entered the Pacific War with Thomas Blamey in command, another senior officer despised by his men and owing his position to his political contacts. We have learned nothing, it seems.

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      David Maddison

      All Australian military at a senior level, the so-called “red tags” (Generals, Brigadiers and Colonels; i.e. those that wear a Gorget Patch) are primarily politicians who follow the government line on political correctness and are unconcerned with genuine military matters nor are they likely to be militarily competent. They get to those positions because they are good political operators, not good soldiers. General Sir John Monash was probably one of the last ones in such a position for military competence and not political reasons.

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        Peter C

        I think that we had some good Naval leaders in WW2.

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        PeterW

        We did have some competent leaders during WW2.
        Sid Rowell – Who set the strategy for victory on the Kokoda Track.
        Les Morshead – Tobruk. The first significant land victory against German troops using Blitzkrieg.
        Cyril Clowse – Milne Bay. The first defeat of a Japanese amphibious landing operation.
        Arnold Potts…..

        Too often they were sidelined for being on the “wrong side” of politics in the Australian Army.

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      Lance

      Military forces exist to kill people and break things with utmost efficiency.

      Politicians exist to enrich themselves and their friends at the expense of the populace and soldiers.

      Nation states exist to preserve and defend their own interests.

      Globalism intends to dissolve all nation states and replace all military and government with “managed living” for the benefit of those guiding/driving the globalist profit. Free Citizens become Drones.

      If you like being Australian / Canadian / American / German / Swiss / etc, then preserving your own history and culture, language, art, music, literature, and future, ought be a great deal more important than bowing down to masters who simply enjoy your servitude.

      Nation states of free Citizens deal with each other by Treaty as Free People.
      Enslaved states and people serve the Master that allows them to live as slaves.

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      Hanrahan

      The “Chokkos” on the Kokoda Track were poorly equipped, they had no mortars because the brass thought they would explode in the trees above our soldiers’ heads. They never told the Japanese that, they used them OK.

      Blamey was nearly lynched when the Aussies had been pushed back to the hills overlooking Moresby. He called the men to parade and called them cowards, that they ran like rabbits. As he spoke the battle weary men were very edgy, the story goes. Funny but I did a couple of searches on Blamey to check my facts and found nothing of this. I still think I’m right.

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        Hanrahan

        Forgot to mention that the wharfies at home were sabotaging the war effort and were stopping/delaying delivery of materials north. The letters home had any references to what the soldiers would do to the wharfies censored, of course.

        A radar set was delivered to the docks in Townsville where the wharfies stole the valves. An American squadron was lost in the Coral Sea which might have been saved had the radar been working.

        There was a book: Australia’s Secret War by Hal GP Colebatch about this

        https://blogjamesmorris.wordpress.com/2018/04/16/australias-secret-war/

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          Tilba Tilba

          A radar set was delivered to the docks in Townsville where the wharfies stole the valves. An American squadron was lost in the Coral Sea which might have been saved had the radar been working.

          My father was a RAAF radar operator / navigator, based in Townsville, and then Thursday Island, before New Guinea. He hated the whole experience … the management of men and materiel he said was a total shambles for most of the time.

          He never joined an RSl, never marched on ANZAC Day – and basically drove the whole four years from his memory.

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            Hanrahan

            Your communist mates on the wharf didn’t help “the management of men and materiel”.

            The wharfies insisted that THEY unload tanks, not the guys who were qualified and they had joy rides in them, and stole the tools.

            Some unit would have taken delivery of them and blamed their own supply people for not providing the tools. There was plenty of blame to go round.

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            Kalm Keith

            Similar to my father. He said that the Yanks they worked near/with had an incredible supply of food, drink and equipment that made the Australians look like castaways.
            FNQ, TI, Wewak, Rabaul, New Britain; then they brought him home a wreck, on the Shropshire.

            And a grateful nation gave him a jar of white, zinc cream to deal with the tinnea on hands and feet.

            KK

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              Tilba Tilba

              Yes – my father did Wewak, Madang, Rabaul, Popondetta … and spent a fortnight every September right through the 50s and 60s suffering a malarial relapse, in a quiet darkened bedroom. But he wasn’t a wreck, either physically or mentally.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        Look for the “running rabbits incident”

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        PeterW

        Hanrahan…

        It was not just that CMF/Militia were sent to New Guinea when better trained and more experienced troops were available, but that the troops which were sent were considered amongst the worst in the Australian Army. That the 39th performed so well is a credit to the officers and NCOs who recognised the problems and worked to change the situation. What else would you expect of units made up of a combination of the youngest of conscripts, and those older members of the CMF who had refused to volunteer for the AIF. (It was those who really earned the chokes their lousy reputation).

        As for mortars…. the OC New Guinea was well aware of the obstacles to supply for any units operating in the Owen Stanley Ranges, and advise HQ in Melbourne that troops deployed to that area would be in danger of starvation, let alone being unable to carry heavy weapons. Melbourne ordered the troops to be sent, regardless while simultaneously ordering the Kokoda Track to be (1) made fit for vehicular transport and (2) prepared for destruction. Experience shows how right this warning was.

        The original proposal from OC. New Guinea was to meet the Japanese at the southern edge of the Owen Stanleys, with fresh troops, supported by artillery and well supplied via short transport lines. The Japanese could have the trouble of fighting the terrain. Without disparaging the magnificent fighting retreat down the Kokoda track, it is worth remembering that the Japanese were finally halted at Ioribaiwa and Imita where Australians held exactly those advantages proposed in the original plan.

        The best conclusion, and one which even the Official History acknowledges freely, is that AHQ in Melbourne was focused on the politics of the Pacific theatre and was remarkably deaf to communications from commanders in the field.

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          Graeme#4

          The Japanese weren’t “halted” – they were ordered to retreat because of the situation in Guadalcanal. The Australians at first didn’t realise that the Japanese had left.

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            PeterW

            The Japanese attack at a Ioribaiwa was indeed defeated. The Australians moved to a stronger, better supported position at Imita, but the Japanese were in no condition to follow and had no prospect of a victory if they did.

            Yes… the Japanese suffered reverses in other areas of the SWPacific at the same time, but this did not prompt them to evacuate PNG. As you will know, it took extremely costly fighting g to eject them from Buna, Gona and Sanananda. It was the combination of the stiffening defence and their own supply problems that forced the a Japanese to retreat from Ioribaiwa, not a need to evacuate PNG.

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          Hanrahan

          it is worth remembering that the Japanese were finally halted at Ioribaiwa and Imita where Australians held exactly those advantages proposed in the original plan.

          I’m not sure where the “front” was in August ’42 but that’s when the Marines landed at Guadalcanal. The Japanese were slowly starved of supplies thereafter.

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            PeterW

            I’ll only repeat that the “starvation” you refer to did not prevent that a Japanese from continuing to fight hard in northern PNG and Borneo.

            Therefore it is more likely that the retreat from Ioribaiwa was dictated by local supply issues rather than general issues pertaining to the broader theatre.

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            Dave in the States

            Location , location, Location. Whoever held the airfield on Guadalcanal would be in an superior strategic position, because of the importance of airpower. It was essentially an unsinkable super aircraft carrier parked in the perfect location to control the entire South Pacific theater of operations. If the Allies had allowed the Japanese to complete the airfield on Guadalcanal, then the Japanese could isolate Australia in terms of communications (a military strategy term rather than telephone or radio comms) which would put them in a position to demand a negotiated peace, and leaving them with their gains intact.

            However, Once the Allies occupied Guadalcanal and Tulagi, the Japanese could not possible get into position to demand a negotiated peace. The Japanese had to re-take Guadalcanal or eventually lose the war.

            It would be a difficult task because with the Allies in control of the airfield the Japanese could not approach the area with naval or amphibious forces by day. The nearest viable Japanese held airfield was at Bunin, 400 nautical miles away.

            The Imperial Japanese Navy ruled the night, however. Beginning in the afternoon, Japanese naval forces would make a full speed dash down the channel between the two parallel Solomon island chains known as the slot, to arrive in the waters off Guadalcanal about midnight. There they would reinforce and/or resupply their forces on Guadalcanal and then get out of Dodge before the Allied airpower on Guadalcanal could again take command with the coming daylight. Five major naval battles were fought at night as Allied naval forces opposed these Tokyo Express runs. Two major carrier air/naval battles were fought during the day.

            It turned into a double siege. The Japanese besieged the Allied troops holding the perimeter around the airfield, but the Japanese troops on Guadalcanal were themselves besieged on the island. They eventually had as many as 30,000 troops on the island but they were starving because the Tokyo Express runs could not possibly supply that many. Several times the Japanese troops tried to drive the Allied troops back into the sea but they failed.

            Finally, the plan was a pincer against the airfield perimeter with IJA troops on the island attacking from the mountains and an amphibious assault of some 15,000 troops from the sea side. But to get the amphibious assault there the Allied airfield had to be neutralized. Neutralizing the airfield was to be done by battleships bombarding the airfield during the night prior.

            The Allied naval forces repulsed the bombardment force during a massive naval battle over three days and two nights in mid Nov. 1942. This was in my opinion the decisive battle of the Pacific War.

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        Graeme#4

        Yes, Blamey did say that. When he visited the wounded in hospital, they were all chewing on carrots…

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    Rick

    The same thing can be observed in the Australian military.

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    • #
      el gordo

      Could you enlarge upon that?

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        David Maddison

        I think Rick was replying to #18.

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          el gordo

          Okay, while you’re there, the military situation has altered markedly.

          ‘Brent crude oil surged more than two percent Monday following a missile attack on facilities owned by energy giant Aramco in Saudi Arabia, and on optimism about the demand outlook as the global economy recovers. A barrel of the black gold jumped 2.11 percent to $70.82 a barrel, the highest since May 2019.

          ‘A missile and drone attack targeted the heart of Saudi Arabia’s oil industry on Sunday in an assault claimed by Yemen’s Huthi rebels, a new escalation in the six-year conflict.’ (Mint)

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            Tilba Tilba

            Brent crude oil surged more than two percent Monday following a missile attack …

            And on top of rising prices following the decision of OPEC / Russia to constrain oil production for the immediate future.

            And perhaps future conflicts will be fought mainly by rockets and drones … our soldiers will be adept at joysticks and computer screens.

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            • #
              Hanrahan

              And on top of rising prices following the decision of OPEC / Russia to constrain oil production for the immediate future.

              It must be pure coincidence that it is only now they feel emboldened, now that the US petroleum industry has been rolled back.

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                Tilba Tilba

                It must be pure coincidence that it is only now they feel emboldened, now that the US petroleum industry has been rolled back.

                Why am I not surprised that someone would blame the election of a Democratic President for oil price rises? There is something about predictability that is comforting … like a favourite pair of slippers.

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                Kalm Keith

                TT says, don’t worry about the former Canadian piped fuel; it’s irrelevant.

                Ha ha.

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              el gordo

              Its essentially a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and it should give our intelligence people a chance to fine tune their equipment.

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              PeterW

              Tilba…

              When you rely on technology, do not be surprised when your enemy adopts tactics that make technology less effective. Drones and Tomahawks are great, but have we achieved our objectives in Afghan, yet?

              The enemy gets a vote….
              ……. and yes, I’ve discussed this very issue with combat-experienced infantry.

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              • #
                Tilba Tilba

                When you rely on technology, do not be surprised when your enemy adopts tactics that make technology less effective. Drones and Tomahawks are great, but have we achieved our objectives in Afghan, yet?

                LOL I love it … the presumption that we have rational “objectives” in Afghanistan! What would they be? The defeat of the Taliban in another three decades, and the implementation of a freedom-loving democracy, complete with pink unicorns and free beer! Hahaha.

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              • #
                PeterW

                TT.

                There was this little party at the World Trade Centre….. “crashed” – If I may use the word – by certain parties operating out of Afghanistan, with the protection of the Talibs.

                The objective of taking Afghan off the list of safe spaces for OBL and al Qaida was rational and seemed achievable. Then the a Good Idea Fairy got involved….. at least partly motivated by the same people who wanted some kind of win-win and social-justice objective instead of simply sending the message “You do not want to be our enemy.”

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    Philip

    The regional electricity co here (Essential ? I dont really know they change names that regularly) recently boasted it has employed a host of young people as trainee linesman. Hurrah! Even better, they boasted they’re all very diverse, women and POCs. That is, if you’re a white male, with talent, you probably missed out because, diversity is best. Well, let us see.

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    • #
      Tilba Tilba

      Even better, they boasted they’re all very diverse, women and POCs. That is, if you’re a white male, with talent, you probably missed out because, diversity is best. Well, let us see.

      This is a really complex issue, and there are no simple answers. This is not just “liberal spin” – it is a reality.

      I was once “forced” to select a female POC as a lawyer into a semi-critical position … she ticked all the diversity boxes but she was hopeless. The several administrative assistants (white female) far further down the food chain were much better at the task than she was.

      Having said – do you actually need to be bright white male to do such jobs as lineman? I don’t know – it’s a genuine question.

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        PeterW

        Tilba…

        “Do you really need a bright white male” is the wrong question.

        What you DO need is someone with the physical and mental capabilities AND the willingness to work wherever and whenever necessary…. not to mention the flexibility to step up when the machinery breaks down and/or someone else in the crew is sick.

        It is very well established in the social sciences that men and women tend to have different priorities. Women are less likely to apply for a job that requires them to work outdoors under harsh conditions and extended shift. Women are less likely to work away from home. Being a linesman often involves all of the above, especially as a common scenario is some kind of natural disaster which creates a LOT of jobs in a very short period. (The fires of last summer are a case in point).

        When a job is already very much less attractive to a particular cohort, the observed tendency is that member of that group which do apply are often below-average in suitability.

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          Tilba Tilba

          Fair enough … thanks for the explanatory details. Not my field (although I have worked outdoors, for long periods, and away from home).

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        Tilba Tilba
        I remember a uni friend of mine who worked in the NSW Public Service telling me a few years back that they had employed a non English speaking lady for the front desk in their city offices. A complete disaster, non English speaking so could not even help people who came nor answer phone calls. A few days later she left in tears – after continual encounters where she simply could not do the job.

        This was entirely avoidable and shows the depths of utter stupidity of the woke and diversity crowd. Even Mallen Baker, leftist that he is, seriously questions programs which place low bars to entry for minorities then have said minorities badly struggle and have appalling rates of failure. In the meantime, talented other people whose only crime was to be born into the “wrong” colour or ethnicity, don’t get a look in. Employing anybody but the best for the job will only result in a mediocre or bad performance..

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        Lucky

        ” do you actually need to be bright white male to do such jobs as lineman? ”

        A distraction. The real problem is how to employ and promote on suitability and ability rather than diversity and inclusion.
        A destructive culture is growing in Australia’s military. There are the usual white males at the top, they only encourage ticking diversity boxes. At the level of government interface we see the appalling decisions of the F35 and Turnbull class submarines. At mid levels it is exactly as happened in France around year 1900.

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  • #
    Richard Jenkins

    Modern reporting becomes historic records.
    History shows mob rule is driven by fear and lies.
    Jennifer Marohasy has done excellent exposure of BoM and JCU Great Barrier Reef.
    Does it get on MSM? The Supreme Court ruled for JCU because of mob rule.
    SCOTUS dd not respect the constitution because of fear of the mob. SCOTUS knew the evidence was solid and could not officially hear it. They basically said that.
    Jen and others use, amongst other evidence, Newspapers that prove records are not broken.
    Read the Membership application form for the ALP?
    This totally destroys democracy. The ALP excuse is that they only pick heads. The ALP defence fails because the subordinates have the same obligation as do their subordinates. Result ABC and so on.
    AGW will not fail because the cooling cycle that is naturally beginning will be creditted to carbon extremists.
    How many articles do we read that are nonsense? They become the history to studets in 100 years.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘AGW will not fail because the cooling cycle that is naturally beginning will be credited to carbon extremists.’

      This new temperature hiatus isn’t in the script, so AGW should be falsified within five years.

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      Tilba Tilba

      SCOTUS did not respect the constitution because of fear of the mob. SCOTUS knew the evidence was solid and could not officially hear it. They basically said that.

      DO you have a source for this? I’ve not seen any evidence that the US Supreme Court justices failed to take on a case because of the political-social unrest it may cause.

      Anyway SCOTUS doesn’t hear evidence directly – it hears appeal arguments about lower-court decisions where there might be constitutional or legislative uncertainties.

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      • #
        Richard Jenkins

        TT it was widely reorted that heated arguments were overheard during the meeting.
        The chairman is a Bush appointment.
        The argument was that if they heard the case it would cause rioting in the streets. That is not lack of legal standing
        Unbiased people had seen the eidence and it easily and convincingly proves the election was stolen.
        When Biden said the fraud was arranged they did not realize how big Trump’s lead would be. That caused the illegal printing.
        Printing on wrong paper resulted and the ballots had not been folded.
        The dead voters and other tricks were going to be inadequate. CCTV had not been considered. SCOTUS knew all that and if presented formally they would have had to discount the identifiable illegal votes. Then we all knew that only state legislators can change the rules. That makes many votes illegal.

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    roman

    Unz has almost the same analysis but for today’s US military.

    BTW, it’s curious how leaning left tends to produce (or is that require?) lower academic standards.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/woke-mil/

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    UK-Weather Lass

    Unfortunately the UK’s Civil Service has long been an arm of left wing military like instruction where there is no room for legality and morality in action. Recruitment and promotion are centred around ability to be obedient and conform and not work hard, be as good as you can be and show your quality. The rot set in the 1970’s when trade unions were taken over by the wrong types in the UK and Thatcher used that to destroy them but all that huff and puff has just made matter worse.

    I believe humanity just goes through phases that are difficult to believe in hindsight but, at the time, no one stood up to inspire, show leadership, set moral example, and have equality in their heart and quality in their actions.

    Sadly I cannot see a world leader better than Trump tried to be; perhaps someone inspired by him and better than him is in the wings. I just hope so but who knows?

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      Kalm Keith

      On our one and only visit to England twenty five years ago now, we just had to go see Westminster Abbey, the place that evokes the concept of decent rule through the Empire.

      Having grown up in the Empire that provided world class education in a stable law abiding community I was keen to visit one of the iconic symbols of our wonderful system of government.

      To say I was shocked is an understatement.
      The walls of the hall were covered with plaques and memorials to the representatives of the Crown who had developed and managed large scale businesses in foreign lands: The East India trade company stood out.

      This in what I assumed to be a place of worship.

      For me, my perception of the world changed a lot in that moment.

      Money rules.

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      • #
        PeterW

        There is a small church in a village in Southern Victoria. In it, there is a stained-glass window with my grandfather’s name on it. His family paid for it.

        What the cynic needs to bear in mind is that it is not just about the money.
        He was a respected and valued member of his congregation.
        He did value and contribute to the church in which this memorial was set up.
        He did spend an adult lifetime serving his country.
        This was considered by the church council and congregation before the memorial was approved.

        It’s not as tho he was some unbeliever cynically buying “advertising space” in an institution with which he has no connection beyond the financial.

        On the other hand, when you have a State Church, things can get a bit political….. some cynicism can be pardoned.

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        • #
          Kalm Keith

          I hope that wasn’t directed at me?

          If it was, you are misrepresenting me.

          Westminster Abbey is a long way from a little church in Victoria in so many ways.

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    Sam Beckett

    This happened in Turkey and was done so Erdogan could consolidate power and stay in charge. The Turkish military had once kept their government from veering off into extremism and they would kick delinquent governments out of power. Then Ergodan initiated a series of purges which eviscerated the conservative military leadership and now has a spayed and neutered military to support his corrupt government.

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  • #

    An Australian perspective. I was in the Army Reserve many years ago and the discipline was strict but fair.

    Fast forward to today and a very good friend of mine is a retired Army RSM. She describes a completely different organisation where discipline has been lost and nobody is charged anymore. Where woke has replaced fighting ability.

    If you are a soldier and you find yourself underfire and pinned down – Who do you want fighting with you – a woke appointee who did not get the job because of ability but some other characteristic unrelated to military prowess, or somebody who is gung ho and the best person for the job. I think everybody knows here.

    The military is totally the last place for this misplaced and senseless stupidity. I would be sacking all the top brass and immediately making it clear that the expectations were the best person for the job and no more wokeness. It will literally kill our diggers…

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    CHRIS

    I am glad that you saw the light, KK. “World Class Education”? I think not. When left-handed people are discriminated against, because they are “possessed by the Devil”, I don’t think that this is progressive education. The British Empire had a lot to answer for.

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      “World Class Education”?

      Yes.
      Our family was certainly not rich, and yet,looking back, the education I received to the end of five years at high school was extraordinary.
      Australia’s education system now is a reality free zone seemingly guided by their AbCcc, TrippleJ and Hack..

      True, The Empire was flawed, but it did some good and in looking around the world I can’t see a system of government that currently exists that is as good.

      KK

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