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Who knew? The fourth largest nation has threatened to pull out of the Paris Agreement

Borneo forest destroy for biofuel crop

In Borneo, the Dypterocarp forest, one of the species-richest in the world (F), is being replaced by oil palm plantations (G). These changes are irreversible for all practical purposes (H).

Under the radar: In a trade dispute with the EU, about six weeks ago, Indonesia threatened to leave the Paris Agreement. Just like that. –

Where was the ABC News? Showing orangutan rescues…

Two hundred and seventy million people live in Indonesia. It’s the fourth largest population in the world – only 20% fewer than the USA. It’s also the second largest coal exporter in the world, and perversely, one of only 16 countries that are even trying to meet their Paris commitment.

Here’s the situation: Indonesia has been razing forests to make palm oil to sell to the EU for biofuel to make nice weather. Skeptics and Greenpeace pointed out the hypocrisy of destroying rainforests in pursuit of a better environment (way back, circa 2010).  Finally, in 2019 the EU commission changed its palm oil policy and declared that it should not be OK for biofuel anymore. The EU parliament is considering whether to make that law.

But Indonesia is the world’s biggest palm oil producer and around 16 – 20 million people rely on the sector, so the government sent a sharp message back to Europe:

 As the European Union proceeds with a plan to ban crude palm oil (CPO) from use in raw bio-fuel materials, the government of Indonesia is threatening to back out of the Paris Agreement under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.

Indonesia’s Coordinating Minister for Maritime Affairs Luhut Binsar Pandjaitan referenced the United States and Brazil’s withdrawal from the accord saying, “if the United States and Brazil can exit from the climate deal, we will consider it as well, because it is linked with the interests of the Indonesian people.”

– March 28th, 2019. Indonesia threatens to withdraw from Paris Agreement, Telesur.

Not only are Indonesian negotiators aware that the US and Brazil are out, they also noticed that there was no downside:

“The U.S. was not sanctioned at all by the EU (after leaving the Paris accord),” said Peter Gontha, special staff at Indonesia’s foreign ministry.

He also said Indonesia faced EU pressure over palm oil despite the government declaring a moratorium on permits for new estates.

Indonesia claims palm is being discriminated against by the EU to protect the market of European oils such as sunflower and rapeseed oils. – March 27th, Reuters

Where’s the news?

Imagine an Australian politician negotiating like that? Or even the ABC mentioning it? It’s not like Australians would want to know how fragile this sacred agreement isn’t — how some countries are peeling away — or how other nations have leaders brave enough to talk back to the EU.

It’s not like Indonesia is a major competitor and trading partner, which is ten times our size and closer to Perth than Sydney. Shh!

Google “ABC News indonesia palm oil” — Find an Orangutang. Seriously,  ABC News has turned into a lifestyle magazine. Rejoice! Indonesian rescuers managed to save a mother orangutan.” “Zoos Victoria has announced it’s going to stop selling products that sell palm oil.” Add “Paris” and keep searching. Eventually I found a relevant story from Canada News on youtube.

Once upon a time we had “Foreign Affairs” now we have animal rescue.

What a deal

To cap off the unintended consequences of biofuel –  during 2015 massive fires rolled through land owned by 11 Indonesian Palm Oil and Paper Pulp corporations. This released some 1.2 billion tons of carbon dioxide. (About twice Australia’s annual emissions). The fires were so big the Indonesian government fined them a billion dollars, which they still haven’t paid.

So The EU can keep Indonesia in the Paris deal by paying them for products that destroy forests and risk fires, or it can keep Greenpeace happy and risk losing yet another major player. Dilemma, dilemma.

One more nation jumps and it might start a trend…

h/t Pat who notes that Xinhau noticed the Indonesian play.

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177 comments to Who knew? The fourth largest nation has threatened to pull out of the Paris Agreement

  • #
    TdeF

    “During 2015 massive fires .. released some 1.2 billion tons of carbon dioxide. (About twice Australia’s annual emissions).”

    Since 1900
    A car releases 4.6 tonnes of CO2 a year and there are 1 billion cars, so an extra 4.5Billion tons every year
    A human releases 0.3 tonnes of CO2 per year just breathing and there are 6 billion extra humans since 1900, an extra 2.1 billion tons every year.
    (Cars do not run 24 hours a day, every day)

    All this outside the Bern theory of the closed biosphere where only the top few meters of the ocean gets involved.

    So you have to wonder why CO2 levels are not much higher and why CO2 growth looks linear. And you can get rid of the cars but what do you do about the people?

    No matter what we do, the growth of CO2 appears completely unrelated to our output. 350,000 windmills. No effect. Giant fires. No effect. Not a blip on the CO2 graph.

    So does CO2 just accumulate in the atmosphere as we are told? That is demonstrably not true, as can be seen from the atmospheric bomb testing in 1965. The half life of CO2 exchange with the massive reserve in the oceans is 14 years. Radioactive CO2 doubled and then vanished and there is only one way to leave the biosphere entirely. Ocean surface temperature controls CO2 levels and nothing else. Warming seas means more CO2. Simples. As for ocean acidification, that is a lie. It would be the first time you heated water and gas went in. Plus the Global Warming predicted warmer air, not warmer water.

    So no matter how big the fire, no matter how many cars, no matter how many people, we do not control CO2 and you can demonstrate easily that less than 2% of CO2 in the air is from fossil fuel.

    Still equilibrium is something only scientists understand. The UN/IPCC/EU/NASA/BOM/CSIRO do their best not to mention it and to play games including that sea ice melts and seas rise, that CO2 is out of control, that Antarctica is melting and that we puny humans can really affect the weather of a planet.

    It’s all make believe. Extreme US socialist congresswoman Occasional Cortex is right about one thing. It costs as much as WWII. The greatest scam in human history.

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    • #
      TdeF

      And could some please explain how CO2 produces warmer water just around the Great Barrier Reef? And why Malcolm Turnbull gifted $444Million to someone who did not even ask for it? Can we get the money back? That’s $20 from every person in Australia, to Lucy’s friends.

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      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Great comments TdeF, but could you confirm this bit;

        “you can demonstrate easily that only CO2 in the air is from fossil fuel”.

        It seems to suggest that human origin CO2 doesn’t enter the oceans.

        KK

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      • #
        sophocles

        Scientists, until Katla (an ice covered volcano on iceland) which has forced reconsideration of volcanically emitted CO2; originally thought CO2 emissions weren’t all that large. Katla has forced a rethink: it now seems much larger than originally believed.

        I like that word: believed. It strongly suggests that accurate measurements just haven’t been taken ever — they flew a plane around Katla. Yes. Right.

        40

        • #
          sophocles

          Was it Kata’s CO2?
          Was it the plane’s exhaust?
          Was it CO2 from Katla’s melting ice?
          Was it one of the above?
          Was it some of the above?
          Was it all of the above?

          Who’s got today’s clue?
          (See bobl below … @1.2.1)

          We have no idea how much CO2 absorbed by the ocean is used, only estimates.
          How much goes into Calcium Carbonate for foraminifera and other plankton skeletal structures and shells?
          How much goes into mollusc shells?
          How much is added to Calcium and directly precipitated to maintain ocean pH?

          There are estimates but not much in the way of accurate measurements.
          Only fools try to formulate policy on such vaguaries.

          60

          • #
            jaymam

            There are a number of diagrams showing where carbon exists and the fluxes between them in billions of tonnes. “Earth’s Crust” is limestone. Where did the 100 million billion tonnes of carbon in limestone come from? Entirely from dissolved CO2. The ocean has been absorbing 2 Gt of carbon (7Gt of CO2) each year for some 500 million years. (There is supposed to be a picture here but the preview doesn’t show it)

            10

            • #
              jaymam

              If we are unable to post pictures in here, all is lost.

              10

            • #
              jaymam

              This is the picture for post 1.1.2.1.1
              99.9% of all near surface carbon is now (after 500 million years) contained in the 100 million billion tonnes of limestone and sediments. THAT is where the dissolved CO2 has gone. Each year the sea absorbs about 7 billion tonnes of CO2 which ends up as limestone.
              http://oi66.tinypic.com/27wraef.jpg
              The “image” code doesn’t work.

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              • #
                sophocles

                Carbon?
                Carbon comes in many different forms:
                There is:
                Diamond
                Graphite
                Graphene
                  Graphenylene
                  AA’-graphite
                Amorphous carbon
                Nanocarbons
                   Buckminsterfullerenes
                   Carbon nanotubes
                   Carbon nanobuds
                   Schwarzites
                Glassy carbon
                Atomic and diatomic carbon
                Carbon nanofoam
                Carbide-derived carbon
                Lonsdaleite (hexagonal diamond)
                Linear acetylenic carbon (LAC)
                … and more.

                Which one do you mean?

                If you mean Carbon Dioxide, then, in the interests of precision and accuracy, say so, or even refer to it using its chemical formula (CO2). We would all understand that. Just saying “Carbon” makes you sound like a politician or other ignoramus, and we know how vague and silly they are.

                As for the image tag not working: the image has to be stored on the same machine/server as the page containing the <image> tag to be served with the page. An image can be included if you really have to have it but you would need to convince Jo that it was really necessary and arrange it with her — very politely, of course.
                Your other alternative is to determine its individual URL/URI, if it has one, and link to that.

                I am familiar with a large number of diagrams showing where CO2 exists in billions of tonnes. As I have said: estimates, not measurements, and as you yourself have said: the sea absorbs about 7 billion tonnes of CO2 — not very precise. When we are dealing with such large quantities, estimates are the best we can do. It’s even difficult to get the orders of magnitude correct, so we fall back on percentages. If you read the article I linked to, you will see that even those are estimates and may also be way out of the ball park.

                I am well aware of the huge quantity of limestone and chalks formed from the early planetary atmosphere which once held about 4,000 ppmv of CO2 (and more). The construction of the USA’s Federal capital buildings didn’t make much of a hole in it all. Dr Happer has pointed out that our atmosphere now is currently in a CO2 drought. Most of our modern plants including and especially our food plants evolved when CO2 concentrations were 800 – 1200 ppmv.

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              • #
    • #

      The bulk of the CO2 exchange seems to be though the biosphere. To the extent that any of this is in the oceans, it’s mostly being recycled by ocean plant life.

      60

      • #
        Bobl

        While it’s hard to get the basic data, the 11% growth in the biosphere since 1990, not only sinks the added CO2, it has added around 6 watts per square meter additional sunlight absorption over forests areas. Anywhere there is significant plant life there is more solar energy being sunk due to CO2 fertilisation – a surface cooling effect mediated by CO2 not counted by models. If I had an idea of ocean photosynthesis I could calculate for the oceans.

        Also the bulk half life of CO2 is 1 year – it is well known (Salby) that atmospheric concentration increases by only half of calculated emission. This means that either emissions are overstated by a factor of two or the biosphere takes up half any increase in the first year. The reason for the discrepancy is that high CO2 concentrations due to new emission is near the surface that are not well mixed but nuclear bomb CO2 is dissolved in the bulk atmosphere and IS well mixed.

        14 years is wrong – too long.

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        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Good point Bob.

          A couple of years ago, recently, a number of studies indicated that complete CO2 turnover was done in just over 4 years, which may equate to a half life of the one year you mention.

          While the 14 years is too long for general turnover, the comment did mention wrt oceans, whether this was intended I don’t know but from my experience with the grass around my home land based uptake by vegetation can be voracious.

          Whatever, the half life is nothing like the hundreds of years claimed by the IPCCCCC.

          KK

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          • #
            TdeF

            The 14 years is certain. Even Prof Suess in 1956 thought the half life was around 5 years from his observations, but the bomb curve is undeniable and across the planet. Clearly from the graphic in #1.1.1.1.1, CO2 can concentrate in areas and the cycle time may be far less in some regions, say forests or turbulent ocean areas and much longer in calm oceans which cover so much of the planet. The e-kt decay curve though shows a world average, not a local one. It also shows only one component, not a combination of curves, so there is one gigantic sink. We have always known this.

            It is a question then, as everything which happens generates CO2 from fish breathing to microbes to bush fires and decay, why doesn’t CO2 just keep going up? The equilibrium is clear. So why do CO2 level change and what determines it. It is extraordinary that alleged scientists at the IPCC do not answer this question. They all infer or state that CO2 once generated stays in the atmosphere for a very long time, even thousands of years and that is wrong and was seen as wrong even 70 years ago.

            I cannot believe public policy and massive taxes are based on such unproven wild conjecture as man made Global Warming. I cannot abide Bill Shorten’s contempt for the basic question of how much we are going to have to pay to buy a few Green votes.

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            • #
              Latus Dextro

              I cannot believe public policy and massive taxes are based on such unproven wild conjecture as man made Global Warming. I cannot abide Bill Shorten’s contempt for the basic question of how much we are going to have to pay to buy a few Green votes.

              “Settled politics” is settled … until it isn’t.

              Who knew? The fourth largest nation has threatened to pull out of the Paris Agreement

              30

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Think about poor old South Africa having to deal with, like Victoriastan, blackouts caused by inept Socialism….

                https://freedomoutpost.com/socialism-leaves-south-africa-in-the-dark/

                “Eskom meanwhile is dominated by the Union of Metalworkers which has its own political movement, the Socialist Revolutionary Workers’ Party, founded due to ANC proposals to break up Eskom. The SRWP is a Marxist-Leninist movement whose manifesto calls for abolishing private property ownership.

                “We will nationalize the land and place it under the control of a worker state,” its national chair, Comrade Irwin Jim, the general secretary of the Union of Metalworkers, declared. “Under a Socialist government, no one will own land, therefore allowing for the worker-controlled state to decide how land is allocated, farmed and used.”

                “Considering how well South Africa has done with state and worker control over electricity, giving the SRWP control over all the land would lead to famine and the deaths of millions.

                “But when it isn’t calling for a Marxist dictatorship, the SRWP is fighting the privatization of Eskom.

                “South Africa’s power supply is in the hands of Marxists who are fighting the more moderate Marxists. The SRWP doesn’t care if Eskom’s debts bankrupt South Africa or its blackouts leave the country in the dark. The ANC knows that it if it doesn’t find a way to keep the power on, it will lose the middle class.

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        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Good point Bob.

          A couple of years ago, recently, a number of studies indicated that complete CO2 turnover was done in just over 4 years, which may equate to a half life of the one year you mention.

          While the 14 years is too long for general turnover, the comment did mention wrt oceans, whether this was intended I don’t know but from my experience with the grass around my home land based uptake by vegetation can be voracious.

          Whatever, the half life is nothing like the hundreds of years claimed by the IPCCCCC.

          KK

          20

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            A stutter!!!!!!!!

            20

          • #
            TdeF

            I did search the IPCC reports and found only two clear statements. One said that CO2 hung around for ‘thousands of years’. The other stated categorically that the half life of man generated CO2 in the environment was 80 years. This is then used to classify all other gases as to their greenhouse potential. It is also demonstrably wrong, but then so much is wrong it’s hard to know where to start. All the oceans are alkali but it doesn’t stop the CSIRO from hosting a world conference on ‘ocean acidification’. All really wrong science but who is allowed question it? As JCU head of physics Prof Peter Ridd found out, you are not even allowed speak up about obviously bad science when hundreds of millions of dollars are available for bad science.

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Its here,
          Meteorologist Chuck Wiese presents the work of Edwin Berry, PhD.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=17&v=jr3NCCEf58A

          The REAL CO2 levels.

          Not that it matters one drop or molecule in 1000000000. CO2 does nothing.

          51

      • #
        TdeF

        The greatest invention of the planet was photosynthesis without which we would possibly have no oxygen at all.It is thought that 50% of all. It’s hard to know but I suspect we would be a CO2 planet. Oxygen is just too reactive and most of it is trapped in oxides, the only one we can use being carbon oxide. All smelting is about removing oxygen by the use of carbon and producing CO2, reversing the process.

        O2 is being generated by phytoplankton in the open ocean. The oceans are the lungs of the world, not the great forests of Siberia and Brazil. Also all living things generate CO2 as well, as that is what powers their bodies, from microbes to humans to whales and insects and plants.

        The problem we have to address is what to do when we run out of fossil fuels. That was supposed to be in the 20th century, but it didn’t happen. Dubai has run out. Victoria’s supply in Bass straight is down to 60% of our needs. For most of my lifetime, we produced all our own fuel, but now we need to buy gas.

        Really the great tragedy is that all our money is going into windmills and solar panels, not solving the problem. These tiny, expenseive and utterly unreliable and non commandable power sources are a near total waste, as are electric cars.

        So when will we in Australia start research on fusion? Or do we leave that, like everything else, to the Americans?

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Probably a CO2 planet like Venus and Mars 97%. Oxygen levels on Earth probably due to life.
          Nitrogen not. Titan has a Nitrogen/Methane atmosphere.

          30

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          I notice allot of graphs of data (fake or otherwise) has ‘amplitude distortion’ to favor a particular view. Like if the variation of an amount is say +- .1 hen the axes are put at =_ say .5 so that the variations look much bigger. This produces a false sense of importance and exaggeration to the quantity. Often used in temperature records. World temperature plots using bright red and dark blue for cold which is really not a great variation makes it seem like it is more extreme.

          20

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘… and you can demonstrate easily that less than 2% of CO2 in the air is from fossil fuel.’

      With respect, we still have Law Dome to contend with.

      40

      • #
        TdeF

        Please explain. What observation from studies in Antarctica is contentious?

        61

        • #
          • #
            TdeF

            The is a very dec*itful graph. The growth is only in the 280-330 range over 100 years but they have set the Y axis minimum at 250 making the recent growth in CO2 look very dramatic. If the Y axis was set correctly at 0, the slope would be reduced x 6 making the perturbation seem quite reasonable. After all, no one said CO2 could not go up or down but no one also discusses what sets CO2 levels, so we are left to conclude that this is man made.

            The first question a scientist would ask is whether sea temperatures have risen. If they have, you have a complete explanation. The question then is why they have risen and the answer is pretty obvious, solar intensity. We know solar intensity varies and as Prof Weiss noted, we can explain the last 2500 years with two cycles, the De Vries 250 year solar cycle and the induced ocean oscillation,the PDO 11 year cycle. So there is no problem in understanding the CO2 graph.

            What was not expected is that James Hansen and Al Gore would scare congress on June 22nd 1988 with their radical theory that we are setting fire to the world with CO2 and that CO2 and Global Warming was the enemy of mankind and a greater danger than WW2. 31 years ago on the Summer solstice. History will show this was the greatest fr*ud in modern science in the damage done, the taxes ripped off and the diversion of tens of thousands of scientists to useless studies when those people would have been better employed elsewhere. The CSIRO alone had 350 full time scientists trying to ‘prove’ Global Warming. Why, if it was all so clear?

            The Global Warming industry is now bigger than world steel and is making a lot of villains and bankers and businessmen rich. What a waste!

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            • #
              el gordo

              Okay thanks, but I’m desperately in need of a different proxy for CO2, like coral or ocean cores. So far drawn a blank.

              The CO2 signal in ice cores seem to dissolve and settle on a flat plain, I’m totally out of my depth but some kind of chemical reaction under pressure might be the answer.

              21

            • #
              el gordo

              We may find something useful in ocean cores.

              http://www.p-co2.org/projects

              20

            • #
              PeterFitzroy

              why would you set the y axis at zero? Convention is that you use the lowest value for your series as your baseline. Using zero is stupid

              29

              • #
                TdeF

                Do you just make this stuff up? What convention?

                If you want to be taken seriously, please could you not insult people with every comment you make.
                It reflects badly on you.

                70

              • #
                AndyG55

                It seems that PF also FAILED MATHS at junior high school.

                Oh dear. So sad.

                50

              • #
                WXcycles

                This a problem CAGW mental-cripples commonly suffer from, namely no sense of proportion. Which is something a graph set to zero crossing would illustrate to such mental cripples.

                In fact, setting a graph to a non-zero axis crossing is a well-known method used to deceive people via attempting to remove an accurate sense of the scale to what’s being depicted. Selective axis values are actually a method routinely used by shysters and frauds to misrepresent datasets and relations.

                So don’t give up your day-job collecting shopping trolleys, Peter Fitzroy [snip].

                40

              • #
                jtom

                Read an old but relevant book, “How to Lie with Statistics.”

                Showing a truncated graph to the general public is a way to visually deceive them into believing something is significant when it isn’t.

                00

            • #
              Greg in NZ

              “The first question a scientist [or surfer] would ask is whether sea temperatures have risen”.

              I’ve read on this site before where doubts were cast on the accuracy or relevance of climatereanylizer‘s temperature/anomaly data, yet I still check them out to see what their images show… and their SST Anomaly (1971-2000 base) for the southern hemisphere is now sitting on exactly 0.0˚C.

              https://climatereanalyzer.org/wx/DailySummary/#sstanom

              Last year it was 0.3 or 0.4˚C, similar to the ‘World’ SST anomaly while the N.H. was warmer (smaller, more sheltered basins & seas?) yet now the World has dropped to 0.2 and down in this half it’s bang on zero, zilch, nada – no change, no boiling seas, no oceans bursting into flames – same old cold Great Southern Ocean endlessly rolling around Antarctica.

              A quietening sun equals a cooling ocean? Or is there an ~800-year lag, similar to CO₂ out-gassing, which would take us back to the time of the demise of the MWP c.1,200 AD?

              50

              • #
                el gordo

                There has been wild talk that the lag has been reduced to 200 years, with CO2 still trailing. They will continue to torture the data until they get the desired outcome.

                I saw another paper which claimed temperatures in Greenland over the period of the Younger Dryas hardly changed because of the fairly high level of CO2 in the atmosphere. Which hardly seems plausible.

                A quiet sun won’t necessarily chill the ocean, the system is more chaotic than we can imagine. I draw your attention to the marine heatwave in the Tasman over recent years, an anomaly or not?

                20

            • #
              AndyG55

              “The growth is only in the 280-330 range over 100 years but they have set the Y axis minimum at 250 making the recent growth in CO2 look very dramatic.”

              TdeF, in a way, the graph DOES start at zero.

              ZERO plant growth CO2 level, or there abouts.

              And yes, we know that change from ZERO effective CO2 has been totally and absolutely beneficial to all life on Earth,

              because all life on Earth is totally dependent on the CARBON cycle.

              If you want to show the growth of atmospheric CO2 in the atmosphere, they should have a zero vertical axis, unless of course the premise is that CO2 has no effect below 250ppm either.

              41

            • #
    • #
      Kevin Lohse

      “…And you can get rid of the cars but what do you do about the people?…” Easy. You convince society that the destruction of infants in the womb is, “a woman’s choice”, make more than 2 children per family selfish, idealise same sex relationships and promote voluntary euthanasia. You’ll get there in the end.

      80

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        Kevin, they’ve, the secular globalists that is, have been unconvincing for quite awhile.
        The current trends suggest that not only is retraditionalisation well underway but that the termination of pregnancy otherwise referred to as ‘abortion’ is diminishing around the world, to wit, the USA, Russia and Europe.
        I am uncertain about Australia and New Zealand, though so often behind the curve of history, it wouldn’t surprise me if sadly they had some way to go.
        PRO-LIFE FORCES UNLEASHED! ALABAMA BANS ABORTION!

        50

      • #
        ivan

        Kevin, have you been reading the ‘how to’ sections of the UN Agenda 21 and Agenda 30 because you missed the part about people being herded into slave compounds sustainable cities where they will be expected to walk everywhere.

        31

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      ‘About twice Australia’s annual emissions’, which is about 2 molecules in 10000000. Thats quite allot..

      41

  • #
    Don B

    “1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/climate/china-energy-companies-coal-plants-climate-change.html

    Apparently, if a nation signs the Paris Accord it can build coal power plants. Whether Indonesia goes or stays in the Accord, it does not make any difference.

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  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    Ignorance is curable. Stupidity is not. At least not by those of us who are neither ignorant nor stupid. About the best we can do is get out of the way of the Darwin Effect and let it clean the gene pool. The challenge is not to become collateral damage in the process.

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    • #
      TdeF

      However in a democratic society we have to try to not be damaged by the stupidity of others. Climate Change is a crazy scare, nothing more. The ripoff will cripple our country. The tragedy is that so much good could be done with the money. Desalination plants which are not working while farmers are short of fresh water. Transmissions lines and interconnectors being built when it is far easier and cheaper to ship coal without energy loss. More high efficiency coal power stations where the power is needed. Moving smelters next to power stations to reduce energy losses. An endless list of smart things we could be doing and which we are not doing. More dams.

      No, we need not to be run by stupid people. Unfortunately that may happen on Saturday based on the utter fantasy of man made CO2 based climate change. We could quickly become another Venezuela. Why little Australia should suffer so much to save China from Climate Change is beyond explanation or logic. Then there is gender fluidity and the Welcome to Country ceremony made up by Ernie Dingo. Nuts.

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      • #
        Dennis

        Welcome to Country ceremony made up by comedian Ernie Dingo and adopted by the Australian Parliament by Labor Prime Minister Julia Gillard following a request from “Independent” MP Rob Oakeshott following the 2010 hung parliament result election when Oakeshott revealed he was beholden to Labor who had recruited him as a “sleeper” supporter after he entered Federal Parliament at the 2008 by election.

        Another “Independent” from NSW, Tony Windsor, a cousin of at that time PM Kevin Rudd’s chief spin doctor Bruce Hawker, was also a “sleeper” and part of the mock negotiation with Opposition Leader Tony Abbott seeking their support for a Coalition alliance minority government. They of course had no intention of agreeing with that and used the occasion to make fun of Abbott.

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          The Left is just bonkers….

          Where else can common sense be suspended to achieve some aggressive and pointless aim?

          Wow…Ive just described the basis of the establishment of the Soviet Union.

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        • #
          Robdel

          One has ro wonder how many new sleepers will get elected this time.

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          • #
            TdeF

            Like Malcolm Turnbull fan Julia Banks? Never a conservative. Exactly like Malcolm. Whatever it takes.

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      • #
        Another Ian

        “Climate Statistician Dr. Caleb Rossiter: ‘We are trying to save the people of the planet from the people ‘saving the planet.’”

        https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/01/skeptical-scientist-hijacks-aoc-congressional-climate-hearing/

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          I have a problem with Rossiter, he still believes in the fake notion CO2 makes the climate warmer, this plays into the hands of the warmists. Typical from ‘luke warmists’. Although still good he fighting the scam, even with a blunt sword.

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        • #
          John in Oz

          Although State of Fear by Michael Crichton has been referenced for many years I have only recently read it.

          His references are getting old now (published in 2004 according to the fly leaf) but the same arguments can be made now regarding what the ‘believers’ believe vs what the science actually shows. The book concentrates on characters who think ‘we have to save the planet’ but who either do not understand the science or try to manipulate it by cherry-picking and outright lying.

          I was particularly intrigued by his description of eugenics and how this concept was accepted both scientifically and politically. It took 50 years for it to be ditched but the harm had already been done by then. If this current foolishness is not ended soon, i pity our descendents who will be left to pick up the pieces. The protesting children of today are going to find out that Mother Nature is not very mothering.

          10

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Damn and dang, I do not want to see our progress and prosperity, wealth and liberty, education and technology, and all our hard fought gains dismissed by supercilious pecksniffian Leftist journalists and commentators, tertiary university administrators, bureaucrats and virtue signalling politicians, a kollectiv standing over the corpses of 100 million slaughtered at the hands of the Left in the last century.
      The nightmarish delusions of Marx and Engels (1848), and of the neo_Marxist Frankfurt School, the toxic mental meanderings of Alinsky and his rules for radicals, I ask you, the Third Reich or Stalin’s Soviet would have dispensed with that lot in the casual blink of an eye simply on the basis of threat or vanity, yet the West, pregnant as it was with promise and prosperity, indulged all those Leftist intellectuals masturbating their ideology under the banner of free speech, it let them spout and indoctrinate, so now they who were indulged seek to remove the very free speech they used to propagate.

      They are a plague upon us, they divide us and they instal inequality and exclusion.
      They shatter a useful and coherent beam of white light through the ideological prism identity politics, cultural Marxism and political correctness, so instead we have a divided, exclusive, unequal useless hierarchy of colours, known as a rainbow.

      Christos, haven’t we had a enough of this kraptitude already?

      40

  • #

    UPDATE: Added to the post

    Where’s the news?

    Imagine an Australian politician negotiating like that? Or even the ABC mentioning it? It’s not like Australians would want to know how fragile this sacred agreement isn’t — how some countries are peeling away — or how other nations have leaders brave enough to talk back to the EU.

    It’s not like Indonesia is a major competitor and trading partner, which is ten times our size and closer to Perth than Sydney. Shh!

    Google “ABC News indonesia palm oil” — Find an Orangutang. Seriously, ABC News has turned into a lifestyle magazine. Rejoice! Indonesian rescuers managed to save a mother orangutan.” “Zoos Victoria has announced it’s going to stop selling products that sell palm oil.” Add “Paris” and keep searching. Eventually I found a relevant story from Canada News on youtube.

    Once upon a time we had “Foreign Affairs” now we have animal rescue.

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    • #
      Another Ian

      “Once upon a time we had “Foreign Affairs” now we have animal rescue.”

      These days “Foreign Affairs” happen in places like Hollywood

      80

      • #
        TdeF

        And full time party girl and Climate Change donor Julie Bishop is slated to be the new US ambassador for a Labor/Green government. Perfect. Our former foreign minister who resigned in a fit of pique and then regretted it. No more first class travel to parties in New York.

        However Bill Shorten thinks she would make a fine ambassador for his Labor/Green government. Of course. A LINO Foreign Minister who said after Trump’s surprise election that we would endure a Trump presidency and continue her enduring friction with a US President who is likely to be US President for the next five years. Australia deserves better than Bishop and Shorten after Bishop and Turnbull.

        90

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        These days “Foreign Affairs” – is just ‘licking the boots’ of another country.

        20

    • #
      PeterFitzroy

      A bigger question would be – why hasn’t Australia done the same in relation to palm oil, after all we have lots of land with a suitable climate, and it would be even closer to Perth. We have a good history in destroying environments for financial gain.

      411

    • #
      PeterFitzroy

      Currently the double secret enforced moderation is running at 12 hours, may be this will beat it

      39

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    Hey! I like animal rescue.

    70

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Animals like being rescued from disaster, unlike ABC reporters who want even bigger trouble.
      I guess it proves that Greenies would be lost in the woods without lots of other people’s money to burn down the forest.

      111

    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      How about us? We humans are animals too.

      Apparently, human sacrifice is OK while sacrifice of lower animals is not. Rather than cutting hearts out of living humans as did the Mayans, we starve and freeze them to death. Different method and different gods but the same result.

      91

    • #
      joseph

      Jo and ED. I’ve been moved to send you few words to express my appreciation for your not letting my last comment loose. :-) Seriously. And thanks for your comment Jo.

      20

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    Brilliantly condensed Pearls of Wisdom from TdeF and Jo.

    The IPCCCCC’s New “Human Origin CO2 atmospheric heating Mechanism” is about as real as “The Emporer’s New Clothes”.

    That the atmospheric heating Mechanism attributed to CO2 doesn’t exist scientifically, and considering that the most obvious impact is in dispersing “Heat” to space from the upper atmosphere, the obvious question to ask is: why is humanity continually charging up dead ends and smashing itself against the immovable barrier at the end.

    Our governments are not responsive to reality as the populations need, and that’s not what they were hired for.

    Governments must be made to act for the betterment of the People, not themselves or their clients.

    Let’s start by Exiting the United Bloody Nations.

    KK

    182

    • #
      ivan

      I would go one step further and completely dismantle the UN and all its tentacles, offices and hangers-on around the world and charge the top people of the organisation with fraud and misuse of funds.

      81

    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      You can justify anything based upon Faith. Once you accept Faith as a path to truth, you can accept anything without evidence or demonstration of validity. Raw blind absolute belief is all that is required.

      80

  • #
    Dennis

    GetUp and the merchant bankers need to arrange robo calls to Indonesian officials, their gravy train is almost off the rails.

    110

  • #
    robert rosicka

    The UN will bribe the Indonesian govt with mega dollars and hit up all the other signatories to the Paris accord to pay for it .

    140

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Yeah but heres the dialogue :

    “If you ban palm oil, we will walk”

    Translation : its all about the money…….or Socialism….but never about the environment.

    Busted.

    150

  • #
    robert rosicka

    OT but the ABC have proof that our ever increasing power prices are caused by one thing and that’s not renewables or even aging coal fired power plants that have closed , it’s because of gas prices !

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-17/gas-exports-blamed-for-electricity-price-rises-job-losses/11121120

    61

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I saw on the back of a long haul truck run by a well known glass manufacturer, that claimed higher gas prices will cost 200,000 jobs.

      Pretty impressive that companies are now also flagging this.

      I wonder if Bill Shortonideas would acknowledge such a thing?

      152

    • #
      Dennis

      Export Natural Gas Agreement negotiated and signed by Labor Government led by Prime Minister Julia Gillard, together with Treasurer Wayne Swan.

      70

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        That’s
        The
        Key.

        Was that “negotiation” their Great Big Barrier Reef Foundation moment?
        Despite possible royalties, this has been contrary to the best interests of Australian industry, Australian jobs and our future generally.

        KK

        60

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks r r,
      I feel more comfortable with that article than I usually do, for two reasons. Firstly it acknowledges that gas is one amongst a group of reasons, and secondly it includes the following:

      ” “In 2016 we paid $8 million dollars for electricity and in 2018 we paid $18 million dollars,” he said.
      “That’s just for the commodity; that doesn’t include network charges and other costs.

      “We’ve taken more than $60 million of cost increases over that time. We can’t pass a dollar of that on to our customers because our competition, who all come from overseas, don’t have any of those increased costs.”
      The gas shortage is a long way past being a theoretical problem. Qenos has let go of 15 per cent of its workforce in just the past year-and-a-half. ”
      ….
      Cheers
      Dave B

      80

      • #
        robert rosicka

        While there is some truth about the price of gas being a driver of electricity prices it’s not telling the full story about coal fired plants closing , the banning of gas extraction in some states and the impost of the renewable energy sector and its effect on power generation being intermittent.
        If wind and solar worked 24/7 we wouldn’t really have much of an argument and prices may have even dropped .

        52

        • #
          Chad

          The article is utter rubbish !
          Only a small fraction of electricity is generated by gas,. ..other than in S A . And that is mostly due to the elimination of coal capacity.
          So the actual increase in gas price is a trivial component of the overall electricity cost …
          …..BUT.. the way the market price “bidding”. System operates, means thatthe gas generators can dictate the overall electricity wholesale price during periods of high demand.
          Gas price ? No
          Market rigging ..YES.

          30

    • #
      John in Oz

      I almost ran off the road laughing yesterday when the news reported a $60 INCREASE in electricity costs due to low sales by the suppliers because solar power reduced our reliance on the grid.

      Every politician is touting they are going to REDUCE costs by increasing solar/wind generation.

      10

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Bob Hawke dead aged 89

    Note the backdrop of the photo…..

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-16/barrie-cassidy-pays-tribute-to-bob-hawke/11121906

    70

  • #

    What’s the purpose of pulling out, when you were never in … in the first place?

    The Paris agreement is voluntary and has no enforcement mechanism.

    Few nations, if any, will meet the goals.

    The most likely nation to meet the goal is the US, and we pulled out.

    Although not before stupid head Obama, excuse me, I meant Mr. stupid head Barack Obama, sacrificed $1 billion for the Green Slush Fund
    when here in the US, we have 500,000 (estimated) homeless people who need help.

    130

    • #
      Dennis

      In Australia last time I read about it one in every eight people are living below the poverty line and homeless, thousands of them are children.

      How politicians can send our monies offshore and ignore the people who need help is beyond me.

      121

    • #
      TdeF

      Yes, but one activist environment judge in NSW in his decision to refuse a coal license quoted it as law. So much for non binding.

      40

  • #
    Greg Cavanagh

    The US was never “in” the Paris Agreement, therefor there can be no sanctions against the US. Obama signed the agreement, which in US law means nothing. It is Obama who agreed to it, not the US.

    71

    • #

      O’Bummer sent a billion dollars to the Green Slush Fund, so it sure seemed like the US was in, as long as a Dumbocrat was president.

      I’m thankful every day that the grifter Clintons were not sent back to the White House again ( and so are the female interns working there )

      92

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        I think he promised 3 billion, and sent 1. And that was illegal too, but nothing was ever done about that little Fubar.

        The Paris Agreement was never ratified by the US Senate. Therefor it had no force of law behind it. Obama just did things on his own authority and was never pulled up on anything he did unlawfully (like ignore the Constitution).

        41

  • #
    el gordo

    There appears to be a general crackdown on palm oil, British jobs are becoming extinct.

    ‘The EU is endangering around 35,000 British jobs and £150m in exports by ploughing ahead with a ban on palm oil, Malaysia has warned.

    ‘Malaysian government minister Teresa Kok – who has been meeting British counterparts this week as part of a tour of European capitals – called on the UK to fight the EU’s “rather hostile palm oil campaigns”.

    “It would be helpful for us if the UK uses its influence in Europe to help us to stop this discrimination,” she told the Telegraph, urging Theresa May’s Government to “take the lead” by becoming the first European nation to recognise Malaysia’s efforts to produce palm oil sustainably.’

    UK Telegraph

    40

  • #
    Another Ian

    With people like this in favour of Paris – -

    “The Last Time Stupidity Was This High …”

    https://realclimatescience.com/2019/05/the-last-time-stupidity-was-this-high/

    50

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      I like this, “Five hundred years ago, bad weather was blamed on witches. Equally stupid and ignorant people now blame it on CO2.”

      Remeber
      watsupwiththat = luke warm.
      realclimatescience = no warm.

      30

  • #
    Penguinite

    What about the EEC changing the rules concerning the burning (to generate electricity)Biomass, or as we call it in the trade “wood chips”. The UK and Holland import thousands of tonnes of chopped-up young trees,now known as “Biomass” for their power stations. But we’re not allowed to burn coal because it’s old trees converted into coal by time and nature??? Go figure

    120

  • #
    toorightmate

    The aim of the Paris agreement was for all countries who associate with the USA to put their hands in their pockets and give their money to countries who do not like the USA.
    Oh Bummer was too bloody dumb to realize that.
    Does anyone know which countries have actually given money and, if so, how much?
    My guess is more lip service than substance.
    Now isn’t that a surprise?

    80

  • #
    Robdel

    Censorship by omission. A well used ABC ploy.

    91

  • #
    Penguinite

    I should add to my previous comments that the burning of Biomass has allowed the UK to spout that crap about not burning any coal for a week, inferring that they survived on wind and solar oh and a large amount of Atomic Power!

    50

  • #

    US, Brazil, Indonesia…

    They’ll be sorry when the Aussie crash-test dummies have got all the green jobs and eco-tourism. We can have a national uniform consisting of khaki ranger shirt and shorts with vegan-rated fur hat (made cheaply in China, where they’re good at making uniforms). The whole world will want to fly in and stare at us being green. It’ll be the most productive move since Denmark turned British sand eels to EU biofuel.

    Think about it as the Hawkie sentiment turns to Green/Labor votes: Australia can become the brochure capital of the southern hemisphere. And we won’t even need to make our own brochures, what with Asia so close.

    100

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Good point Mosomoso , I was thinking last night what Hawkes passing would do to the sympathy vote and before I thought the Libs were in with a slim chance but now I fear Lil Bill is a shoe in .
      Best we can do is say told you so next election (that’s if the Shorten socialist government allows another election) , I’m wondering how many thousands of dollars it will cost for a loaf of bread by then .

      92

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        ‘a loaf of bread’ Several wheel barrows of useless 100 dollar bills. As in Germany before the war.

        50

      • #

        One cult I’m totally over is that of the luvvable larrikin and PGB (“professional good bloke”). Sometimes you strike a character who is genuinely that way – Doug Walters comes to mind – but usually the cult is as authentic as a three dollar note.

        40

    • #

      I’m makin’ meself a uniform, mosomoso, but not khaki ranger shirt, it’s gonna’ be a yellow vest to wear on Bastille Day. Vive la revolution! Down with le roi! (King Globul.)

      102

      • #
        Mark D.

        Hmm. Interesting thought: lets watch the supplies of yellow fabric. When inventories drop suddenly get the popcorn out something big is going to happen…..

        10

  • #
    el gordo

    There have been rumours that the EU is trying to take advantage through rapeseed oil, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

    ‘The United States Department of Agriculture’s Foreign Agricultural Service is reporting an 18 percent decline in EU rapeseed acreage compared to last year.

    “Due to dry sowing conditions in some major rapeseed producing countries, rapeseed acreage declined sharply, especially in France and Germany,” stated the USDA in its EU-28 Oilseeds and Products Annual report.

    “In Romania, about half of the rapeseed area requires replanting with other crops because of poor germination caused by drought.”

    The Western Producer

    30

    • #
      ivan

      Don’t forget the cold that Europe is seeing at the moment. Night time temps can get down to 5°C here in the south of France.

      71

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Please Elgordo call it by its politically correct name “Canola” , don’t want to upset the greentards .

      30

  • #
    Binny Pegler

    Yes the whole thing is unraveling – Note the effort to link Australia’s ‘sure thing’ election to climate change. If Labor gets up they will be shouting from the roof tops, this was all because to climate change. Ironically this (along with Labor’s choice of Shorten) could be the very thing that loses this ‘unlosable’ election.

    72

    • #
      robert rosicka

      If they lose it will be because of the open wallet approach to tackling a non event imo.

      41

  • #
    Another Ian


    The early Dem candidates for 2020 – part 3. Planning the succession.”

    https://thepointman.wordpress.com/2019/05/16/the-early-dem-candidates-for-2020-part-3-planning-the-succession/

    Some things in there pertinent to our local scene too IMO

    30

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Trump Administration Might “Re-Examine” Climate Modeling

    Environmental advocates are troubled by statements EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler made at a gathering of environment ministers”

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-administration-might-re-examine-climate-modeling/?redirect=1

    Now why would that be I wonder?

    50

    • #
      RickWill

      It appears climate models are adaptive in the USA. They have a lever that can be tweaked toward Republican or Democrat depending on what result is required.

      The CSIRO dos not have a similar lever in their model. Because they are headquartered in Canberra, there is a permanent tweak to Labor because that guarantees funding. The tweak is so deeply imbedded that it can only be removed by a complete software rewrite.

      61

      • #
        PeterS

        Now you know why I left CSIRO many years ago – it’s too closely linked to federal politics.

        60

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          CSIRO was once an organisation to be proud of.

          Political interference is an ugly thing.

          71

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        “Because they are headquartered in Canberra…” they are frozen into fight or flight inaction? From the sacred and never-to-be-questioned Bureau of Manndated-models this moaning:

        0.3˚C Canberra 06:56am
        -3.0˚C Cooma Airport 06:50am
        -2.4˚C Perisher Valley 00:00am
        -1.5˚C Collie East, WA 06:31am

        17˚C max Perth (projected) COLDEST state capital today
        3.0˚C min Perth (projected)

        The alleged catastrophic warming power of carbon and/or carbon dioxide appears to only work during the day and mainly in summer. Is there still time for me to send off a grant application to study this existential anomaly?

        Good luck for tomorrow! Hopefully Jacinda & Emmanuel’s mob haven’t taken down Jo’s site in their headlong rush to world domination… um, I mean, safety and well-being an’ equalidee.

        62

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Youve been watching too much of Vinny Eastwood?

          20

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            He’s still alive? I did meet him once, 10 years ago, when someone put him onto me about video editing. After a cuppa and a chin-wag I realised he was even further out-there than I was and that was that.

            Surely he hasn’t been ranting about Ja Cinders and Micro-man lately has he? Oops, there’s a loud knock on the door, gotta go –

            30

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Seasonal weather a shock to everyone /sarc off

          23

      • #
        TdeF

        Until climate models include the known solar cycles and the known ocean currents and the known ocean temperature osciallations, they can never work. The man made Global Warming scam is only about the temperature of the first meters of land in an atmosphere 10km high and an ocean 3.5km deep and 340x as heavy with 95% of the world’s free CO2 dissolved. How can anyone predict climate when the major drivers are missing and no one can predict the major climate events like El Nino and La Nina, to name just two? You would be better off with chaos theory than the existing climate models.

        71

  • #
    Asp

    Indonesia currently has a regulation that requires all diesel fuel to contain 20% biofuel, predominantly palm oil. There is already a shortage of palm oil to cater for the requirements of this regulation. I frequently fly over the country side of Kalimantan, and have observed a major increase in land clearing to support this ‘green initiative’. Next year, the requirement will be 30%, so watch out all you orangutans and other endangered species!
    So Indonesia’s posturing on the Paris Accord in relation to the banning of palm oil in Europe may be more about seizing an opportunity to get money from the EU, rather than having to cope with a major surplus of palm oil at home.

    60

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Yes so flattening all that CO2 loving forest for palm trees, less CO2 consuming I guess, just to appease the bio-fuel industry which is flawed..

      31

  • #
    pat

    on 7 April, in comment #32 of the following thread -

    http://joannenova.com.au/2019/04/weekend-unthreaded-254/

    I posted 3 pieces about this topic, & stated Xinhua had taken note. I didn’t post the url for the following, so will post it here:

    Indonesia threatens to leave Paris accord on climate change over palm oil dispute
    Xinhua – 28 Mar 2019
    “If the United States and Brazil can exit from the climate deal. We consider it because it is linked with the interests of the Indonesian people,” Indonesia’s Coordinating Minister for Maritime Affairs Luhut Binsar Pandjaitan stressed.

    The minister said that the government would firmly defend its national interests as over 20 million people across the country rely much on the palm oil sector which has created many jobs and helped alleviate poverty in the country…
    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-03/27/c_137928396.htm

    30

  • #
    Bill Dawson

    Please, more science!

    50

    • #

      Bill, election tomorrow!

      [PS: I understand, and hope to get back to that in ensuing months, though as you can tell, politics is all through science, but science is not anywhere to be seen in politics. - Jo]

      73

  • #
    PeterS

    As I keep saying Australia is the only nation in the world of any significance who is taking the CAGW so seriously, and to our ultimate destruction unless we wake up very soon preferably before tomorrow’s election.

    71

  • #
    pat

    el gordo, comment #14, touched on Malaysia (which is second largest palm oil producer after Indonesia).

    15 May: NewStraitsTimes: Teresa Kok: Europe offers better opportunities for palm oil market
    By Zaharah Othman
    LONDON: In the face of the impending passing of the Delegated Act to phase out palm oil by the European Union, Primary Industries Minister Teresa Kok is positive that all is not lost as her European mission on palm oil has opened more doors for negotiations.

    The minister, with her entourage of senior officials from the ministry, Malaysian Palm Oil Board (MPOB), Malaysian Palm Oil Council (MPOC) and Malaysian Palm Oil Certification Council (MPOCC) were on a 10-day trip between May 3 and May 13 to London, Brussels, Berlin and Rome, where they met senior officials in their mission to explain Malaysia’s stand on the palm oil situation.
    In Italy, where the delegation met the under-secretary of the Foreign Affairs Ministry Manlio Di Stefano and the Environment, Land and Sea Protection Minister Sergio Costa, Kok said the response was very positive…

    ***She said senior officials at the Vatican had also proposed the setting up of a team of scientists from the Academy of Science of the Vatican to evaluate Malaysia’s report on red palm oil…READ ALL
    https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2019/05/488696/teresa-kok-europe-offers-better-opportunities-palm-oil-market

    16 May: MalayMail: Growing demand for palm oil from China, says Kok
    https://www.malaymail.com/news/money/2019/05/16/growing-demand-for-palm-oil-from-china-says-kok/1753609

    27 Apr: Malay Mail: Teresa Kok out to change EU’s palm oil sentiment by mid-term
    By Yiswaree Palansamy
    Kok also hopes that Malaysian palm oil can penetrate more global markets, pointing to Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Japan as targets…

    Last month, Dr Mahathir said that Putrajaya may stop buying goods from EU member states if the bloc proceeds with its plan to ban Malaysian-made palm oil products…
    In January, Dr Mahathir had written a letter to French President Emmanuel Macron and said that Malaysia would look into laws to restrict imports of French products if it did not withdraw plans to ban palm biodiesel…
    https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/2019/04/27/teresa-kok-out-to-change-eus-palm-oil-sentiment-by-mid-term/1747572

    20

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    On the topic, the more (countries) that pull out the better. Hope the rest of Asia follows suit.

    40

    • #
      TdeF

      It’s hard to accept that our self interested politicians are not looking after our commercial interests as well as the Indonesians are looking after theirs. After all, we have allowed Indonesia to match our exports in coal. The only reason people still buy our coal now is that we have fewer impurities which makes our coal far better for making coke for smelting of steel as opposed to thermal coal for power stations. Otherwise Australia Inc. would be out of business, but our politicians are too busy getting elected and planning their retirement to care about the people of Australia. Extreme self interest and arrogance trumps responsibility, as in the UK with the failure of Brexit. We do not expect genius in politicians, but at least a sense of responsibility would be nice.

      50

      • #

        As part of the China soft push back against us they have been ordering lower grade coal which comes more from Indonesia in the last year and holding up Australian coal ships for “environmental” inspections that waste weeks. There’s no official word, just a very suggestive pattern.

        81

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          One other thing, China has reduced production of steel that requires coking coal so basically doesnt need all the coal previously got from Australia. As for ‘inspections’ well upset someone and..

          40

  • #
    TdeF

    The is a very dec*itful graph. The growth is only in the 280-330 range over 100 years but they have set the Y axis minimum at 250 making the recent growth in CO2 look very dramatic. If the Y axis was set correctly at 0, the slope would be reduced x 6 making the perturbation seem quite reasonable. After all, no one said CO2 could not go up or down but no one also discusses what sets CO2 levels, so we are left to conclude that this is man made.

    The first question a scientist would ask is whether sea temperatures have risen. If they have, you have a complete explanation. The question then is why they have risen and the answer is pretty obvious, solar intensity. We know solar intensity varies and as Prof Weiss noted, we can explain the last 2500 years with two cycles, the De Vries 250 year solar cycle and the induced ocean oscillation,the PDO 11 year cycle. So there is no problem in understanding the CO2 graph.

    What was not expected is that James Hansen and Al Gore would scare congress on June 22nd 1988 with their radical theory that we are setting fire to the world with CO2 and that CO2 and Global Warming was the enemy of mankind and a greater danger than WW2. 31 years ago on the Summer solstice. History will show this was the greatest fr*ud in modern science in the damage done, the taxes ripped off and the diversion of tens of thousands of scientists to useless studies when those people would have been better employed elsewhere. The CSIRO alone had 350 full time scientists trying to ‘prove’ Global Warming. Why, if it was all so clear?

    The Global Warming industry is now bigger than world steel and is making a lot of villains and bankers and businessmen rich. What a waste!

    61

    • #
      TdeF

      Sorry, this was in response to #1.3 and the CO2 graph from the Law Dome in Antarctica.
      As I browsed to something else during editing, the comment was dropped in the very last position without reference.
      I have also posted the comment immediately after #1.3.

      20

  • #
    Ruairi

    It would be a sizable clout,
    Fomenting a nationwide rout,
    To diminish the zeal,
    For the whole Paris deal,
    If Indonesia decides to pull out.

    70

  • #
  • #
    Alice Thermopolis

    A PROPOS ABC

    “At a time when public discourse is being corrupted by false facts and fake news, it is comforting to know that at least one news organization fervently believes its reporting is objective and accurate — especially in regard to the world’s newest religion, climate change. I speak, as you might have guessed, about the ABC.”

    “Deconstructing the four minutes and twenty-three seconds of this piece ABC-style “reporting” is a worthwhile exercise, for it illuminates how zero-carbon rhetoric about “climate change” is being used to promote a very dodgy narrative. Being economical with the truth, or ignorant of it, helps too.”

    Go to: https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2019/05/far-more-predictable-than-weather/

    20

    • #
      pat

      Alice Thermopolis -

      the link from Quadrant is worth reading in full, despite the disclaimer. below promo pieces under article are the comments, which mentions View 10 comments, but there are 20-plus:

      9 May: TimesOfIndiaBlog: Climate science violates the basic precepts of science
      Sanjeev Sabhlok in Seeing the Invisible
      (BOTTOM) DISCLAIMER : Views expressed above are the author’s own
      20-plus comments
      https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/seeing-the-invisible/climate-science-violates-the-basic-precepts-of-science/?comments=show

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        pat

        the Quadrant writer might like to do a follow-up article re:

        17 May: ABC: Canberra will be first Australian city to run on 100 per cent renewable energy from October
        By Jake Evans
        Canberra will be effectively powered by renewable energy from October 1 — the first Australian jurisdiction to do so, according to the ACT’s Climate Change Minister.
        October marks the date when the third stage of South Australia’s Hornsdale wind farm comes online, from which the ACT has purchased the last trickle of renewable energy it needs to claim 100 per cent renewable power…

        “We will be effectively there from October 1,” Climate Change Minister Shane Rattenbury said.
        ‘Effectively’ 100 per cent renewable
        The ACT will be “effectively” powered by 100 per cent renewables after October because the territory will still be part of the national electricity grid — mostly powered by fossil fuels…

        Canberra residents pay about $5 a week on top of their average electricity bill to pay for the city’s renewable energy.
        That equates to about 13 per cent of the average ACT electricity bill — the fourth most expensive power bill in the country, according to the Australian Energy Market Commission.
        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-17/canberra-to-run-on-100-per-cent-renewables-from-october-1/11121676

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          RickWill

          I wonder if anyone could muster enough interest to have a go at this false advertising. There is no way that energy solely produced from wind and solar sources can supply 100% of the ACT’s power continuously. Also energy from wind and solar sources is in no way “renewable”. These sources consume more energy in their manufacture, transport and installation then they could possibly produce over their operating life while supporting a modern economy.

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    pat

    includes an attempt to downplay the incident:

    17 May: Yahoo: Reuters: Third fatal Tesla Autopilot crash renews questions about system
    By David Shepardson
    Tesla Inc’s Autopilot system was engaged during a fatal March 1 crash of a 2018 Model 3 in Delray Beach, Florida, in at least the third fatal U.S. crash reported involving the driver-assistance system, the National Transportation Safety Board said on Thursday…
    The NTSB’s preliminary report said the driver engaged Autopilot about 10 seconds before crashing into a semitrailer, and the system did not detect the driver’s hands on the wheel for fewer than eight seconds before the crash. The crash sheared off the roof as the Tesla travelled under the semitrailer.

    The vehicle was travelling at about 68 miles (109 km) per hour (mph) on a highway with a 55-mph (89-kph) speed limit, and neither the system nor the driver made any evasive manoeuvres, the agency said…READ ON
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/teslas-autopilot-system-engaged-during-150128531.html

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      pat

      Updated 17 May: Bloomberg: Tesla Fires Sound Alarms About Electric-Car Battery Safety
      By David Stringer, Jie Ma, and Jinshan Hong; With assistance by Ying Tian
      Electric vehicles may be less prone to catch fire than gas guzzlers, but recent blazes involving Tesla Inc. and NIO Inc. cars in Greater China are prompting the industry to take steps to alleviate concerns from potential customers…
      “Battery combustion is a very serious incident for consumers, and it could lead to consumer aversion to electric vehicles,” Automotive Energy Supply Corp., whose batteries power about 430,000 Nissan Motor Co. vehicles, said in an email. “We are determined not to cause serious accidents and put damage on the industry, and we believe that now it is more important to proceed with caution.”
      There’s reason to be worried. Should Chinese consumers slow their shift to plug-ins because of safety concerns, it would be a serious blow to the nascent segment. The nation accounts for more than half of all electric passenger-car sales worldwide.

      While China is forecast to remain the largest market for the next two decades, sales are already slowing and growth will probably continue decelerating until 2021 as the government phases out subsidies, according to BloombergNEF…READ ON
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-16/tesla-fires-sound-alarms-about-safety-of-electric-car-batteries

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      RickWill

      Elimminaring customers is probably not the ideal way to increase sales. While Illinois is making it even more expensive to own an EV, Tesla is doing a reasonable job of eliminating EV believers. Illinois’ approach is less diabolical.

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      RickWill

      Actually it puts real meaning into crash test dummy!!

      If Tesla was smart they would immediately disable any automatic mode of operation of their vehicles.

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      Another Ian

      Pat

      For the even more daring

      “Hey pollies, electric vehicles are happening. Get on board”

      https://www.couriermail.com.au/rendezview/hey-pollies-electric-vehicles-are-happening-get-on-board/news-story/ea5fe6583655833e07f8b8f6f2434f3a

      That would be in the spirit of this (IMO)

      A driver was stuck in a traffic jam on the highway outside Washington , DC .

      Nothing was moving.

      Suddenly, a man knocks on the window.

      The driver rolls down the window and asks, “What’s going on?”

      “Terrorists have kidnapped the entire US Congress, and they’re asking for a $100 million dollar ransom.

      Otherwise, they are going to douse them all in gasoline and set them on fire.

      We are going from car to car, collecting donations.”

      “How much is everyone giving, on an average?” the driver asks.

      The man replies, “Roughly a gallon.” ”

      https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/121272-who-remembers/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-1302606

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        pat

        Another Ian -

        thanks for the laugh.

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        robert rosicka

        Similar theme.

        Bill Shorten and his shadow ministers along with the top nutters from the greens and Some ABC journalists were on a bus doing a fact finding tour when inexplicably the bus careered off the road and into the lake where I was fishing .
        I immediately notified the authorities and to my horror six hours later not one emergency service had turned up and the bus had sank killing all on board .
        I’m starting to think I wasted a stamp .

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    theRealUniverse

    For tomorrow, election day down under, may the worst eco nutter greentard environmentalist LOSE!

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    pat

    re 2020 UN Climate Change Conference (UNFCCC COP 26). lengthy, read all:

    16 May: Buzzfeed: Italy’s Climate Change–Skeptic Government Wants To Host The UN’s Flagship Climate Change Conference
    Italy’s candidacy is putting EU governments in a difficult position. The UK meanwhile is lobbying Italy to drop its bid.
    by Alberto Nardelli
    The nationalist Lega party, the junior partner in Italy’s governing coalition, has formed controversial alliances with far-right climate change deniers, putting EU member states in a difficult position. There are also concerns about the Italian government’s capacity to successfully deliver the event, and some officials and climate change experts now hope Italy withdraws its candidacy.

    The UK and Italy both wrote to the permanent missions of the United Nations earlier this year to formally announce their candidatures to host COP26, the UN’s 2020 climate summit, documents obtained by BuzzFeed News show. Turkey has also expressed an interest in staging the event, but its bid is seen as unlikely to succeed, climate experts said.
    BuzzFeed News can also reveal that the British government is on a “charm offensive,” lobbying Italy to drop its bid, and has pitched a collaborative proposal…

    As a member of the European Parliament, Matteo Salvini, now Italy’s deputy prime minister and leader of Lega, voted against the Paris agreement, while his party abstained from a vote in the Italian Parliament to ratify the accords…READ ON
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertonardelli/italy-climate-change-cop26-matteo-salvini

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      theRealUniverse

      ‘Italy’s Climate Change–Skeptic Government Wants To Host The UN’s Flagship Climate Change Conference’
      Hope Salvini can sabotage the conference and show it as the SCAM that it is. Good luck to Italy.

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        theRealUniverse

        I think (and hope) this scam will slowly become unstuck and untenable as more wake up to what it REALY is, global fascism, something Italy has had too much experience of in the past.

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    pat

    not as HUGE as Bill’s uncosted climate policy, Hannam…but, naturally, you don’t even mention that:

    16 May: SMH: ‘Huge gamble’: Coalition faces $18b hole if climate plan trips up
    By Peter Hannam
    Richie Merzian, director of The Australia Institute’s climate and energy program, said the Coalition’s intention to count the expected surplus of 367 million tonnes of so-called “carryover credits” generated by beating the Kyoto Protocol climate target to 2020 may be ruled unacceptable by other nations…

    Labor has ruled out using the credits, and promises to raise Australia’s Paris target to 45 per cent if elected.
    “Using Kyoto credits is fake action on climate change, and Ukraine is the only other country in the world to confirm they will do this,” Mark Butler, Labor’s climate change spokesman said. “The Liberals want to use this dodgy accounting trick so they can pretend they are taking action on climate change – they are not.”
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/huge-gamble-coalition-faces-18b-hole-if-climate-plan-trips-up-20190516-p51o4i.html

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    pat

    ***a novel explanation!

    13 May: LA Times: China, Japan and South Korea, while vowing to go green at home, promote coal abroad
    By Shashank Bengali
    Yet even as they take steps to promote renewable energy at home, these three countries are facing growing scrutiny for financing dozens of new coal-fired power plants in foreign countries.
    Most of the plants are being built in Southeast Asia and Africa, in emerging economies where the growing demand for cheap, reliable electricity is most easily met by coal, the single largest source of the greenhouse gas emissions blamed for warming the planet…

    ***“The Chinese, Japanese and Koreans have a lot of coal-fired power equipment that will not have a great deal of international value in another three to five years,” said Melissa Brown, energy finance consultant at the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis. “So they’re looking to partner with countries that can move forward quickly to put new coal-fired power capacity in place.”
    They have found willing buyers in countries such as Indonesia, Vietnam, South Africa and Bangladesh, where governments for now appear more concerned with building their economies and expanding access to electricity than with the environmental impact of burning more coal…

    Of about 67 gigawatts of new coal plants worldwide that are slated to receive foreign funding, more than 80% are being financed by China, Japan and South Korea, according to the advocacy group EndCoal.org.
    China is by far the biggest player, having supplied or pledged $36 billion for coal plants in 23 countries, according to the IEEFA…
    A total of 16 gigawatts of new coal-based power (IN INDONESIA) — nearly the total electricity output of Colombia — is due to be financed by Chinese, Japanese or South Korean banks over the next decade, according to independent estimates.
    For Indonesia, the deals offer a chance to tap foreign technology and know-how to exploit billions of tons of domestic coal reserves…READ ON
    https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-indonesia-south-korea-coal-energy-finance-20190513-story.html

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    pat

    read all:

    Updated 16 May: UK Sun: CORBYN’S DIM IDEA Britain faces blackouts after Jeremy Corbyn reveals his £65bn nationalisation plan
    Labour plan for parish councils to deal with energy infrastructure
    By Steve Hawkes
    All senior executives and directors will be taken out and sacked – with their jobs re-advertised. Shareholders including 800,000 ordinary Brits may not get full compensation.
    Experts immediately compared the move to late Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez’s ruinous takeover of the country’s oil sector.
    They warned it would slash investment in the UK and plunge Britain into darkness because of mis-management and a shortfall in generating capacity.
    Energy expert Peter Atherton told The Sun: “I do find it ironic that at the moment trust in politicians is so low people wouldn’t trust their MP to buy a pint of milk, Labour insists it can run the energy industry better. Really?”…

    Labour separately last night committed to fit nearly two million homes with solar panels – to save low income Brits an average £117 a year.
    The plan would be paid for by money from Labour’s whopping £250billion National Transformation Fund and interest free loans
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9084729/britain-faces-blackouts-jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation/

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    15 May: UK Telegraph: Labour’s plans to nationalise the UK energy industry surpass the City’s worst fears
    Labour’s plans to nationalise the UK energy industry surpass the City’s worst fears
    by Jillian Ambrose
    The Labour Party’s decision to flip the switch on plans to bring energy under state control has sparked outrage in an already embattled market.
    The looming risk posed by Jeremy Corbyn’s threat to nationalise the UK’s £60bn energy networks industry has stalked the City for months. It first emerged in 2017, softened by vague political rhetoric and doubts over the party’s chances in a general election.

    Since then, the unraveling of political norms in Westminster has sent shivers through the City as the hazy threat of a Labour government came into sharper focus.
    Now the party’s blueprint for wresting back control the British energy system’s arteries and infrastructure have been laid bare in a leaked nationalisation plan. The sweeping strategy goes far beyond the City’s worst fears…
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/05/15/labours-plans-nationalise-uk-energy-industry-surpass-citys-worst/

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    pat

    behind paywall. when will countries have the sense to walk away from Paris?

    16 May: UK Times: Ireland facing €150m bill for missing climate targets
    by Catherine Sanz
    Ireland will have to spend as much as €150 million on carbon credits to make up for missing its 2020 greenhouse gas emission targets, the environment minister has said.
    Richard Bruton said that the credits were needed for 16 million tonnes of carbon emissions. The move could help the country to avoid larger fines for failing to meet targets.

    Ireland is about 95 per cent off course in meeting its 2020 targets, which involve reducing emissions by 20 per cent on 2005 levels. Mr Bruton’s announcement came as Ireland’s draft national energy and climate plan (NECP) was rated 38 out of a possible 100 points by the Ecologic Institute, an academic think tank, and Climact, a consultancy.
    The assessment was carried for Planning for Net Zero, a report published …
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ireland-facing-150m-bill-for-missing-climate-targets-j79hkl2t7

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    theRealUniverse

    OT but,
    Good article on national (Deutschland) idiocy.
    ‘Clean’ Energy Kaput: Germany’s ‘Inevitable’ Wind & Solar ‘Transition’ An Inevitable & Total Failure
    https://stopthesethings.com/2019/05/15/clean-energy-kaput-germanys-inevitable-wind-solar-transition-an-inevitable-total-failure/

    “Germany is the world leader when it comes to wind and solar and worth following, if you’re keen to return to the Dark Ages.” :D exactly!

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      TdeF

      Very good summary. Wind power as a ridiculously expensive fantasy. Plus the German idea that the would move from world wreckers in the 20th century to world saviors in the 21st is now itself a fantasy. The utter failure to make a positive difference to the environment is now clear with no impact on CO2 levels and strident objection to more windmills, more power lines and more subsidies.

      It’s not too far a jump to see a time when failed windmills are just torn down. Again.

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    robert rosicka

    Outsiders is hilarious tonight a must watch if you have Sky

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    Peter C

    Principia Scientific International.

    The PSI website is down. Reason unknown at this time, ? cyberattack (another attack on free speech).

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    Joost

    Paris agreement; the rats are leaving the sinking ship

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