JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Rating: 8.7/10 (27 votes cast)
Weekend Unthreaded, 8.7 out of 10 based on 27 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/ycvpeko3

402 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    PeterS

    Finally someone from the LNP is exposing the truth about Turnbull. Dutton announces Turnbull was worse than Rudd.
    Turnbull ‘spiteful, indecisive’: Dutton

    321

    • #
      jeff

      Turnbull was actively pushing to bring ISIS fighter Neil Prakash back for trial.
      What a massive waste of money that would be good for nothing but enriching his lawyer mates.
      Dutton just revokes his citizenship, and the taxpayers say thankyou.

      402

      • #
        PeterS

        The Libs should revoke Turnbull’s party membership. He’s done more damage to the party than any Labor leader.

        401

        • #
          Mal

          Was he a Labor 5th columnist?
          His actions and impacts on the liberal party would suggest he had an agenda to do damage to its core ideals.

          231

          • #
            PeterS

            Might never know but it certainly looks that way. With a person like Turnbull in the party who needs the ALP and Greens to destroy the LNP? Imagine someone like him in say the Republican Party while Trump is President. Trump would not allow such a person to last a minute. Then again I can understand why the Libs won’t cut him loose. The party is in a mess and some sort of comatose. It’s becoming clearer they don’t deserve to be in government. Hopefully Shorten won’t turn out as bad as we think he is but then again what choice do we have? Well we do have a choice; a hung parliament that requires the ACP and ON to form government. It’s the best we can do under the circumstances. My only hope now is enough voters see it that way but I won’t be holding my breath.

            160

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Funnily enough, people are waking up to the reality of him being a champagne socialist…..I flagged it way back when, but people seem to be slow to catch on….

              150

              • #
                PeterS

                Me too. Trouble is there are many others like him still in the parliament. I just wish the LNP imploded and we started with anew party. I feel it’s beyond repair.

                160

          • #
            TdeF

            He was never a liberal. Turnbull’s Great uncle was Leader of the British Labor party. They were Labor Royalty, but labor would have not him representing the Unions. Another Rudd.

            So Malcolm redefined Bob Menzies Liberal ideals to make himself the natural successor by a play on the word Liberal. Bob Menzies was no progressive, another intentionally misleading word. It means extreme socialist. Progressives are utterly against free speech and democracy. WW2 was waged against Socialists (Fascist and NAZIs) and Communists (Soviets). Menzies would hardly mistake anti Royalist would be Republican leader Turnbull for a democratic liberal conservative and devoted Royalist like himself.

            70

      • #
        glen Michel

        Well, I’ve been trying to get people to appreciate Dutton. Not much luck unfortunately.Hope his time comes soon.

        223

        • #
          Greebo

          Another piece of MT’s appalling treachery. Dutton would have been a hard sell, but so was Abbott. ScoMo is Turnbull in a funny hat. What a waste, and Malcolm’s work is done. The only thing I hope for is that PM Shorten gives the UN gig to Rudd before Turnbull. Or, of course, the Presidency.

          40

      • #
        Dennis

        The more of that kind of nonsense I learn about the more convinced I become that the left side of politics is determined to open borders and provide protection for people now referred to as illegal immigrants who seek asylum.

        I believe this is why despite the Morrison Coalition Government rejecting the UN HCR Compact on Migrants, as did the USA and other UN member countries, the Australian political left are determined to follow the guidelines of the Compact regardless of the adverse impact on others;

        http://pickeringpost.com/story/lisa-neville-must-resign/8734

        202

    • #
      yarpos

      “”Malcolm had a plan to become Prime Minister but no plan to be Prime Minister,” was Mr Dutton’s damning evaluation.”

      yep, that right there

      281

    • #
      Dennis

      As the former Liberal Opposition Leader who took over when PM Howard left Parliament in November 2007, Dr Brendan Nelson GP, described the man who undermined and then replaced in in 2008, Malcolm Turnbull: he is a narcissist.

      160

  • #
    Another Ian

    New relations

    “Our Cousin, The Mushroom…”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/12/28/our-cousin-the-mushroom/

    90

    • #
      Jonesy

      Oh dear, the vegans and vegos just lost their main protein source.

      131

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Nope…being vegan is easier than it ever has been.

        Hungry Jacks have a vegan cheeseburger!!

        51

        • #
          Hanrahan

          ‘Tis time all the texts on healthy diets were burned and we started from scratch. Any diet today, vegan, vegetarian, paleo, keto, carnivore has its disciples and detractors.

          It has long been shown that a salt free diet isn’t healthy, that statins do nothing for longevity even among those at high risk of a heart attack, that the food pyramid should be inverted with grains at the top, the smallest part. This year will be the first year where life expectancy in the US shortens and diet has a lot to do with that. Drugs, both legal and illegal are prolly the biggest effect Y on Y though. I think medical misadventure kills more than car accidents.

          140

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            You missed that Statins have the interesting side effect of accelerating aging in many of those taking statins..But this is ignored as it’s just inevitable aging.

            100

          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            The most significant diet, not even mentioned by mainstream diet buffs includes the use of fermented foods.

            Sauerkraut, fermented beans and so on.

            Letting microbes do all the hard work increases the availability of the nutrients in vegetables etc. Natto is a fermented bean product and is one of the only foods other than meat that contains vitamin K2.

            Amazing the massive blind spot in the media and the public in general. The diet high in fermented foods is far superior to any Paleo diet or other ..and i do mean ‘far superior’.

            141

            • #
              PADRE

              Not to mention fermented grape juice. According to St Paul it is good for the stomach.

              120

            • #
              Environment Skeptic

              hmm…interesting doco.
              The History of Food – Food Fermentation Preservation an Exploration. Series 3/5. HD documentary 2018
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gGMLcOYPeI

              20

            • #
              greggg

              So, Weston Price diet then? Paleo is still better for people with autoimmunity and you can still eat some fermented foods.

              10

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                It is beginning to look as though what the microbiome needs collectively should be at the top of the pyramid.

                It was only a few weeks ago that the relatively new idea came to my attention which suggests bacteria by far outnumber our own human cells in our own body. They live both within our cells and surround them, thoughout our digestive apparatus/gut

                For example, all kinds of mitochondria found within our own cells swim around in there busy digesting and converting all kinds of stuff within those individual human cells, and bacteria external to the cells that comprise the intestinal lining even help to produce/control serotonin production amazingly enough for me. It is superfluous to add that without them we would not live, perhaps more than few hours, and that we would probably get depressed :-) due to the abrupt shortage of serotonin associated with the absence of the bacteria responsible for that process.

                A diet high in fermented foods, not only, supplies/restores certain essential bacteria to the gut, they also are full of essential enzymes and amino acids in a pre-digested form that actually feed/maintain conditions the bacteria in our gut need so that they can go about their own transformative business without a hickup. Eating fermented food full of enzymes/amino acids is like adding fertiliser to a garden. So fermented foods are not just good for getting good bacteria, in fact more often the bacteria do not survive the acid conditions in the stomach. Although that is so, even though they did not survive the gut PH, they still produced an excellent fertiliser for feeding and providing the right conditions for the good bacteria in our gut to plod on and do what they do. . That is partly the way i understand it so far.. It is very exciting new area and it probably came to the fore in part due to the recent Microbiome project which attempts to map the human genome. From this came the discovery that 90% of our DNA is comprised of bacteria and the like. Only 10% is actual human DNA allegedly.

                Indigenous bacteria from the gut microbiota regulate host serotonin biosynthesis

                From what i can gather, the top of the food pyramid should be occupied by fermented foods, and everything else should follow from that. from the top down.

                10

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                If we imagine what a real Paleo person would have eaten, it would have included all kinds of partially/fully fermented foods from the get go. Drinking fermented milks like wild fermented Kefir is vastly more nutritious than milk and solves the refrigeration/storing problem at the same time.

                Fermented beans have vitamin K2 so that solves the Paleo vegan/vegetarians amongst us lol

                CFC Keynote – Sandor Katz – Fermentation, Culture, and Coevolution | @marioninstitute
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39TwdrDAt1I

                10

        • #
          yarpos

          they must use American cheese

          30

    • #
      Graeme#4

      That was a fun read! Especially the short video on the red mushrooms. Thanks Ian.

      40

  • #
    el gordo

    I was caught short and it cost me dearly.

    ‘Fines for driving unregistered are up more than 64,000 per year since the removal of rego stickers.’ SMH

    110

    • #
      Hanrahan

      I guess it’s no coincidence that this coincided with cameras and software in police cars which allows immediate checking of rego status. THEY no longer need a label. Someone deserves a raise, they save a few dollars not posting out labels and reap millions as a consequence. /sarc/

      I don’t think I got my renewal notice this year but I know I bought it just before Xmas so I renewed it OK. At one time in Qld if you were a day late making payment you only got 11 months rego. They were taken to court, and lost, for penalising people late when using bpay, which takes a few days to process.

      140

      • #
        yarpos

        not sure what the difference is between getting a label and getting a letter and/or email that your rego is due. The only thing thats really changed is the background ritual of playing with a label, although people seem to have an amazing amount of missing mail since the label isnt included.

        90

      • #

        Even though BPay comes through late sometimes, the transaction is back-dated to the day that it was paid.

        The Synergy monopoly in W.A. has the nasty habit of sending out penalty notices on the due date if the BPay hasn’t come through. But then; even basic arithmetic is beyond Synergy’s billing systems.

        100

        • #
          Greebo

          Even though BPay comes through late sometimes, the transaction is back-dated to the day that it was paid.

          Tell that to the RMS guys at Marulen Heavy Vehicle Station.

          20

      • #
        el gordo

        A week after it was all done and dusted the robot sent me a lovely letter reminding me that ‘your car registration is late’.

        On the day I promised the copper I would go to the nearest rego office after picking up someone at Mount Vic station. As I waited for the train a small helicopter came down really close to confirm my whereabouts, I kid you not, hovered for a full minute.

        Sitting under the shade of an old gum tree I had s strong manic urge to run out into the glare and wave my arms about, but I resisted the temptation.

        70

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Was it a plod chopper?

          Never get between the State and its source of income….

          30

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘Was it a plod chopper?’

            Not sure, it appeared smaller than the new PolAir 8 which has hover capacity. Perhaps it was just an amazing coincidence that an unmarked helicopter lingered above my car for a full minute.

            20

          • #
            el gordo

            It appears to be a Robinson R44.

            10

      • #
        Graham Richards

        Simple remedy for the failing memory is to use your computer, you know, the one you use for emails, it has a calendar & one can record important dates & even give several reminders of an approaching “D” day. There is simply no excuse for failure on rego renewal.

        10

    • #
      Dennis

      I have several registered vehicles and have received renewal notices in NSW well in advance of due for payment date.

      60

    • #
      GD

      I was caught short and it cost me dearly

      Which reminds me of this song, although from faulty memory I thought it was a singer in the country style of Johnny Cash. Instead, it turns out it’s a Buddy Holly styled pop tune released surprisingly in 1966. Surprisingly, because by then the Buddy Holly/Shadows Fender driven pop tunes of the late 50s/early 60s were being superseded by the emerging psychedelic genre and a year later, the heavier rock of Hendrix and Cream.

      The clip is interesting for another reason, Bobby Fuller, the singer, is playing the guitar chords accurately. The ‘band’ would have mimed for the video, due to the technology of the day, but Fuller is obviously quite an adept guitarist and he played the chords and fills correctly even though it didn’t matter. That was unusual in those days.

      30

  • #
  • #
    Sambar

    The kiddies think their aging dad is old and feeble, so to make my life “safer” they bought me an I watch for Christmas. Now as well as occasionally telling the time, the weather, stock reports etc.etc. It also measures my heart rate, something they think is important. My only concern is it keeps working. I do have a reasonably active lifestyle, I ride a bike, bush walk, prospect, hunt.and my new device has a “fall indicator”. If I fall it automatically dials triple zero. How convenient. So, off to gather next winters firewood. The log needs a wedge in the saw cut, couple of belts with the sledge hammer and then I get the feeling of a huntsman spider running up my sleeve. No spider, it’s my new safety device dialing triple zero. Panic now, swipe to close doesn’t work cause I’m wearing gloves ! What to do, get the wrist up to the face and swipe to close with the tip of th schnoze. Take the bloody machine off and throw it in the truck, starts dialing triple zero again. I have to make sure I wear this bit of technology when I see the kids and make sure I praise its virtues.

    260

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Ha ha I was wondering about ramifications of the ‘fall indicator’, problems could be

      - Diving into water and swimming.
      - Laying on the floor doing stretches.
      - Working under a vehicle.
      - Sleeping in bed??
      - Having a bit of ‘mazing rumpo’

      Obviously there’s a way to turn the function off, is there?
      Not saying its a bad idea as it could save the lives of those that need it, but to me its just another tracking device.

      220

      • #
        Sambar

        You have hit the nail Yonnie, it’s a tracking device. Along with recording heart rate and sundry other bits of info that can be used against the owner. When it dials triple zero and you swipe to stop, it the asks questions. Did you fall? Yes / No. Did you fall but are O.K.? Yes / No. I did not fall. Yes / no. Imagine the authorities using this recorded information against me to say, prevent me from driving. “Your Honour he keeps falling over.” There may be a way to turn these functions off but I’m not that tech savy and the kids ( bless them ) keep telling me it’s for my safety.
        Haven’t tried your last bullet point. Lack of volunteers.

        140

      • #
        yarpos

        Ours neighbours daughter quietly exchange mobile numbers with us so we can be alerted should our neighbour need quick help (rural location). He is younger than me but with some medical baggage.

        So no I watch , but we are on Ken watch :-)

        60

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      I’m sure there is a web site where you an swap unwanted Chrissie gifts for something useful like a car battery operated chainsaw sharpening tool.
      And let someone else who need an I watch worry about it’s foibles..

      70

      • #
        yarpos

        Ebay have an add on their front page along the lines of “trade in your Christmas duds, and put it in your travel fund”

        30

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Its funny…i have no hestitation calling my smartphone a “toaster” , as in its just an appliance. I hate the things ( im not your typical IT nerd..)

          30

          • #
            yarpos

            I used to hate them but gradually have come around as I discovered useful apps and found useful features. Although the smartphone Interweb experience is cr@p its availability in a pinch is useful.

            Things I like:

            Big font day/date widget on the home screen (get correct date in car club permit book, a bookable offence of wrong)
            ODB2 display via bluetooth (car diagnostics)
            Digital speedo (been driving a car with a broken speedo)
            Timer for cooking steak on the Weber
            Torch function
            Quick access to a camera
            Maps
            Emergency warning in the fire season
            SMS contactbility and ease of use

            Things I dont like

            Mainly just bulk for me personally. I have a tiny Nokia C5 I bought for a few$ of ebay that I pop in my pocket when we go out for a meal. Just forwrad my calls to it. Much less obtrusive.

            Externally I hate the way they have taken over peoples lives and that some would rather gaze at their phones than play with their kids

            20

    • #
      Another Ian

      I have more than enough trouble with a Casio G-Shock.

      A good rugged watch – if only it just concentrated onn telling the time.

      40

    • #
      Another Ian

      Sambar

      Worse is to come.

      “Just when you get your hands nice and greasy your nose will start to itch, you’ll need a pee and your new watch will demand attention”

      (Borrowed from another site and elaborated some)

      40

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Dont like smartphones. I work in IT and am viewed by coworkers as a bit of an enigma.

        I hate the fact a phone needs to be upgraded regularly. I mean – why cant it just be a phone?

        I had a great Nokia 3315 – an utterly bullet-proof device, it just made phone calls and texts, did all you needed and that was it.

        Funnily enough, got myself an analogue mobile early back in 1990, really useful for gallavanting around the west of NSW having a great time.
        Then had to ditch that to get a digital 2G, then up to a 4 G when forced to get my current piece of rubbish.
        Prefer to have a device I can drop onto the floor of the car and not worry about it. My old nokia I could literally kick long the floor in the office and no harm done.

        Now for the sake of the all embracing “soft” metrosexual culture, we have to all be linked to faceplant and all that social media complete rubbish.

        No thanks…..

        /rant

        70

  • #
    David Maddison

    I would urge people to become familiar with Graham Hanckock’s work whose thesis is that there were advanced civilisations from the past that have been forgotten about. Such people were responsible for building the pyramids, the megalithic ruins in South America, Gobekli Tepe and the source documents for the Piri Reis maps (among other things). He is not a crank and this does not involve extraterrestial aliens etc.. The destruction of this older civilisation is based upon the very sudden (natural) melting of the ice after the last Ice Age finished around 12,000 years ago flooding coastal areas to a depth of 130 metres or so leaving only a few survivors and drowning most archeological remains deep underwater.

    What do you think?

    Video at:

    https://youtu.be/1wJw1DcI2e4

    53

    • #
      David Maddison

      *Hancock.

      40

      • #
        Yonniestone

        He has very interesting outlook and one that I’d say is lacking amongst many of today’s scientific areas, looking outside the box and testing your ideas is becoming a forgotten art.

        Not surprisingly Wiki and the BBC give him a bad rap so that alone is an indication rational people should have a look at his ideas.

        110

      • #
        Yonniestone

        After watching the link I found a more recent one from Graham Hancock that covers the story of Ph.D Geologist J. Harlen Bretz, the impact theory of the Younger Dryas, the Carolina Bays formation and mathematical links with ancient structures.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZhSun9_SYs

        Its really well presented just ignore the opening Contact in the desert link as it has nothing to do with Hancock’s presentation.

        60

        • #
          Serp

          Thanks Yonniestone for directing me to highly educational material: the Taurean Comet Belt was previously unknown to me and I had been wondering about that sudden warming at the end of the Younger Dryas.

          30

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      If only all the money and research being spent and done on CO2 induced Global Weather Chaos and imaginary social justice issues could have been spent on real research such as on the past 100,000 years.

      Gobleki tepi built so high up just after the big flood caused by the end of the last glaciation.

      There would be so much of interest to find under that 130 metres of ocean.
      Where I live there is a potential living zone extending an extra 19 km out from the current shoreline.

      Back to the present. It’s hard to comprehend the absolute rubbish which gets funded for university based research.

      Endless mulling of hurt feelings caused to Climate Warriors by the insensitivity of Climate realists. Endless studies into lack of equality for women.

      We are headed nowhere.

      182

      • #
        Yonniestone

        We touched on this last thread, I’d say to anyone that fully believes an atmospheric trace gas responsible for the existence of life on this planet is somehow going to destroy it should go to their local hospital and walk around the many areas of treatment and have a good look at the patients and what they have or are going through just to stay alive or regain health then look at the family and friends visiting or holding bedside vigils praying for their loved one.

        Then sit down and seriously consider that they would be doing the same or even have done in the past as those people are doing and that there’s a possibility even remotely that their firmly held belief in the effects of atmospheric CO2 that has created a global industry of wealth redistribution amongst nations of 1.5 trillion dollars per year to combat the claimed effects of CO2 has misdirected funding that could’ve gone into eradicating even one of those diseases you saw people suffering from.

        Then consider what priority you would place on a loved one in the exact same position as the other patients, would you a firm believer in CAGW allow a family member to travel in an Ambulance, receive ER treatment, Get X-rays, take medicines or stay in hospital care? as every single one of these activities involve the burning of fossil fuels and production of CO2.

        I’m not being dramatic just honest, from personal experience I’ve seen hard line atheists talk to God and Racists beg foreign doctors to save their wife when they reality of mortality shows its cold face, I’d suggest most of you CAGW believers are exactly the same and the rest are just damaged people.

        /rant.

        171

      • #
        Mal

        We are not heading nowhere, we are going backwards.
        All things in nature go through an evolutionary cycle which reaches a peak and then declines or devolves.
        I think western civilisation may have peaked and we are now in a decline.
        The current generation has no knowledge or respect for the vision and hard work achieved in the last hundred years to provide a standard of living in Australia, unequaled in history for the working and middle class.
        They don’t know how to create wealth, just know how to spend it.

        The media, the financial system and institutions and the politicians have all contributed to this state.

        110

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          That’s it Mal; they have no idea of the poverty that existed in the lifetimes of many still living today.

          The self denial, to make ends meet, the thrift, no cars but enormous hope for the future and for a better world.

          To most that past world of building a better nation is invisible and leads to false expectations of what government can or should provide.

          Disheartening.

          KK

          80

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            “…and leads to false expectations of what government can or should provide.”

            Yep – and someone has to pay for it…..

            10

    • #
      PeterS

      Watched it in full. Very interesting indeed. Unfortunately he didn’t research and showed any of the artefacts and drawings of dinosaurs that were roaming the world at the time of various civilisations. His plea we should worship the Great Pyramid is to say the least terribly uncomfortable. More recently he has made wild prophecies, such as a comet will hit earth and wipe out all life. He also warns we should rethink the way we behave and act to avoid a potentially disastrous end not necessarily due to climate change but he doesn’t rule that out:
      Graham Hancock: There May Be More To Climate Change Then We Realize

      His solution to avoiding the coming apocalypse is to say the least naïve especially given his focus on catastrophic endings of past civilisations. He ought to know by now (and probably does but won’t admit it) mankind never learns from past mistakes and instead keeps repeating them. Only an external element coming into the picture will stop this cyclical behaviour; the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I’d agree with that.

        If you look at the majority of problems you have in life, it stems from Biblically defined sin.

        We have govts now who are full tilt interested under the banner of “progressiveness” rapidly making many forms of unthinkable types of sin legal – with the resultant reality that as God refuses to be mocked, you will suffer for breaking His laws – simple.

        Yet people, often mislead by demons ( demons are fallen angels, as defined and explained in the Bible ), insist that just like implementing more Socialism to fix “broken” socialism, that more sin fixes existing sin. Wrong – sin is *the* problem.

        Satan has done a really good job of convincing people he doesn’t exist, which means he can mislead the entire planet ( and does so – 1 John 5:19 ).

        Only Jesus coming back a 2nd time is going to stop things – the Bible says it will be like the time of Noah – the earth filled with violence, and it will be so bad no flesh would be saved unless God intervenes ( Matt 24:22 ).

        Reckon its bad now?

        32

        • #
          PeterS

          Yes it will get much worse before it gets better. One doesn’t even have to be a believer of the faith to know that. Those who think it’s different this time around are mistaken (as usual).

          Socialism does not have a monopoly on deception and the rest. All forms of man-made systems end up with the same result in the end as proven by history. The only difference is how they get there; some use a more deleterious path than others but in the end corruption and greed overtakes them all.

          30

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day David M,
      A couple of days back I was prompted to have a look at Google maps to see if I could detect any evidence of the old shore line off the coast of NSW. I found something which surprised me a “feature” (I can’t think of a better term) which is a straight line about 90kms out from Port Macquarie. It looks man-made to me but if I’m close the “man” would need some qualifier.
      I’ve spent the last hour or so getting some details from Google Maps and recording them, reproduced below.
      I’ve not yet sent them to anyone else, but will seek out someone who might know what I’m looking at. I’ll also look at the link you’ve provided.
      Cheers,
      Dave B
      ;;;

      NSW feature off east coast
      From Google Maps Pro/Windows 10 on laptop
      Shore ref 1: Tacking Point Lighthouse, Port Macquarie,
      Bearing 112degrees
      Distance 93kms approx (from lighthouse)
      The feature: Heading: 20.46 degrees
      Width: 13 kms approx.
      Most south: Lat 40°55’38.37″S Long 149°24’50.43″E (Off NE corner of Tasmania)
      Most north: Lat 23°30’34.29″S Long 154°54’44.54″E (Off Fraser Island, Qld)
      Overall distance: 2000kms (rounded)

      50

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Hi David

        Similarly I’ve been interested in artifacts that don’t seem to be natural on google earth.

        When I looked into it I came away with the idea that maybe these were irregularities in the satellite scanning process.

        Not sure. One of the best tools if you have access to it on your version is the depth tool

        Don’t go past 125 130 metres.

        :-)

        50

        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          Thanks KK,
          No, I don’t think it’s a satellite scanning error. Did you look at 93 kms off Tacking Point? At 13kms wide, and uniform over 2000kms methinks the feature is too regular.
          And again No, I don’t appear to have the depth tool, but will see what I can find.
          Cheers,
          Dave B

          20

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            I can only get the depth altitude to function in Google Chrome.
            Will look at the things you mentioned tomorrow, am curious.

            10

            • #
              David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

              Thanks KK,
              I got it to work when I found I just had to fly down through the surface of the water, but lost resolution and couldn’t see anything meaningful. But I was well below the 130 metre level.
              Cheers,
              Dave B

              30

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Had a quick look. Those features are weird. being so straight and uniform. The are a couple of other straight lines to the east that are about 500 metres wide. Amazing.

            20

            • #
              David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

              Yes. “Weird” is a good descriptor. My first thought was “avenue”, so my 13 kms was measured from the outsides of the “tree lines”.
              Cheers,
              Dave B

              20

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                David,

                I asked Google and got this, in part:

                Image result for what causes the lines on the ocean floor in Google earth
                In other words, there are no physical lines on the ocean floor. These lines are artifacts of the ocean floor mapping process. Oceanographers use sonar—sound waves—to map the ocean bottom. … The sound travels through the ocean, bounces off the seafloor, then travels back to the ships.
                Did I find the lost underwater civilization of Atla

                30

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            Kinky Keith

            Hi David,

            Checked in out on G Chrome this morning and it seems to be at a depth of 4500 metres plus.

            Getting into the 3D view enables a fascinating picture of the continental plateau from all sorts of angels but unfortunately doesn’t shed any light on the likely cause of these amazing straight lines.

            I have a friend who’s a geologist so next time I see him I’ll see if he knows.

            On the wider picture these lines are all over the place.

            KK

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      • #
        PeterS

        I zoomed in closer using Google Earth Pro. Interesting.

        20

      • #
        Annie

        There are lots of straight or slightly curved parallel, or nearly so, to be seen west of Tasmania and also west of WA in the Eastern Indian Ocean, sometimes intersected by others at a different angle. I’ve always assumed them to be geological features. That one off NSW is interesting though.

        30

        • #
          Annie

          Straight or slightly curved parallel lines…

          30

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Agree Annie. A geologist friend of mine pointed out the many underwater straight fault lines, all converging at the mouth of the Swan River at Fremantle. Seen on Google Maps they are quite interesting. Fault lines folks.

          30

      • #
        Slithers

        It is a mathematical construct!
        The Satellite(s) that produce the raw data don’t overfly exactly the same place often taking Years to do so. Some Satellites double report polar data and have gaps in coverage at the Equator.
        The Foot-prints of these satellites are of exactly the same width as they travel north or south, so the surface area they are mapping follows the great circle. Parallel to it!
        The data interval, times the satellites speed gives the other value when obtaining the area overflown.
        The Mathematics required to cut off the overlaps are fiendishly difficult and the computers work upon numbers that ALWAYS cause tiny errors, these manifest as straight(ish) formations especially visible in the oceans!

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        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Good. There was mention that sonar was used for the sea bedbad but considering the vast expanse not sure how easy that would be. Still, using satellite has potential issues like going though water and back. Lot of energy loss there.

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      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Thanks to you all for your comments, and interest. Sounds like I have to assume a data/computer construct, rather than any human one. Pity, it would have been fascinating. But I will keep a watching brief as the images are updated.
        Happy New Year,
        Dave B

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      • #
        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          Thanks John,
          Will read.
          Happy New Year,
          Dave B

          10

        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          Thanks again John,
          I’ve done a quick scan of the paper and it seems to cover just the continental shelf and out to 50 kms from the coast. My “feature” is beyond that, at about 136kms from the South Head lighthouse (on a heading of 130 degrees), so has not been studied in this work.
          Cheers,
          Dave B

          10

  • #
    BoyfromTottenham

    David, IMHO Mr Hancock can probably add the Antikythera mechanism to his list. It’s complexity as an astronomical calendar was about 1500 years ahead of ‘modern’ science and engineering.

    90

  • #
    Ruairi

    A qualified technician should be hired,
    For solar panels fixed to roofs and wired.

    The Greens must have their way as they know best,
    Which fuels to deprive from all the rest.

    On renewables, the A.B.C. show bias,
    And view all those who favour coal, pariahs.

    Solar power batteries can catch fire,
    And turn a home into a funeral pyre.

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    David Maddison

    The below linked article is about how the Left have written the Pygmy A boriginals of Queensland out of history even those these people were known to school children if the 40′s, 50′s and 60′s and were mentioned in Manning Clark’s “History of Australia” in 1962, because it doesn’t suit the Leftist Agenda to allow for more than one prehistoric human migration to Australia. This is presumably why research into other prehistoric settlements in Australia by people like Mungo Man is highly restricted or banned.

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/history-wars/2002/06/the-extinction-of-the-australian-pygmies/

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    • #
      David Maddison

      There are similar issues in North America with the suppression of work indicating settlement prior to the people currently accepted as indigenous Americans.

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      • #
        Kinky Keith

        That’s also my understanding of the situation too David.

        Although I had not heard of the pygmy aboriginals it was apparent from reading some time ago that there had been a separate group who settled Australia long before the present aborigines arrived.

        They’re no longer around.

        Make of that what you will.

        It’s therefore disturbing to hear some speak of archaeological sites as belonging to their “forebears” when timing and understood history preclude that.

        Generally I view the current push for social justice as little more than self serving elitism that guides people away from truth and the real issues we need to confront.

        Principal amongst those are the failure of government to manage on behalf of the general population; where, for example, are the dams we should have seen built in the last 30 years?

        Also the secret electricity taxes are little understood and amount to Slavery.

        The population has been mesmerized by the Elites.

        One thing that I would like to see researched and documented properly is the appalling treatment of Australia’s Aboriginal people during European settlement.

        Little was publicly available in the past and this issue needs study and resolution.

        Rumours of incidents, some absolutely horrific, need to be understood and placed on the record.

        The rise and rise of sociology based courses in Australian universities is a serious issue for our society because they seem to study hurt feelings rather than the real issues: Our Aboriginal history, both recent and ancient, being a case in point.

        Where is Truth.

        KK

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      • #
        yarpos

        Never really understood the business of claiming “nativeness” and the surrounding victimhood. Its the way the world has always worked but now is becoming (slightly) less brutal. Its seems to be espoused by those who cannot make their own way and look to the cargo cult approach were stuff will fall from the sky if they whine loud and long.

        Personally I am think of suing assorted Scandinavian countries , the English and I guess the Romans/Italians for raping and pillaging their way through my Celtic ancestors and destoying their culture.

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        beowulf

        Up until the advent of the land rights movement, the pre-aboriginal pygmy race was well documented in Oz by anthropologists. At the time of white exploration of Oz, the pygmies were confined to areas of the country not favoured by the later aboriginal arrivals — extreme desert and extreme rainforest.

        In the mid-60s a couple were found living in the Nullarbor. In 1988 a young US adventurer wrote of meeting “Robbie”, supposedly the last of his tribe, living at Millaa Millaa on the Atherton Tableland. Robbie stood the height of the bar in the pub. In the early colonial days of sail when shipwrecks along the QLD coast were very frequent events, the pygmies of the Cairns area were well known to shipwreck victims because of their kind treatment of white castaways, unlike the surrounding aboriginals who were decidedly deadly. It was reported to the whites at the time by the pygmies themselves that the aboriginals hunted them.

        None of the above sits well with the notion of first nations or land rights, therefore it was quickly swept under the carpet from about 1970 onwards. It is still all there in the records if you care to search though.

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      Graeme No.3

      David Maddison:

      The recent work on the spread of Denisovan genes may provide some confirmation.
      Early days as it only started in 2010, but it does reveal a higher concentration in the north and north east of Australia, with a higher incidence in New Guinea. The latter is extrapolated to Melanesians generally.
      There are remnant populations scattered throughout Asia.
      Curiously Australia, Indonesia and the Melanesian islands are very short on Neanderthal genes (as also Africa) which are higher in China and Europe.
      A further comment is that there may have been a much earlier migration into the Americas (about 100,000 years) than the Clovis time around 12,000 years.

      meta-gaia.angelfire.com/denisovan_radiation.html

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      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Hi Graeme, possibly the lack of spread of Neanderthal genes is related to their home base.
        From what I understand, they were physically highly adapted to cold climates and so didn’t move around much and lived in the north of the Northern hemisphere.

        The last major glaciation which reached its peak about 25,000 years ago would have pushed them down closer to the Equator and into close contact with species of humans better adapted to the new environment. They didn’t last but were known to have been around 30,000 years ago in Spain near the level of Gibraltar.

        They were robust physically and had huge brains.

        KK

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          Graeme No.3

          Well they spread across Europe and as far as (western) China. Their descendents people modern China, Indochina, Malaysia and Sumatra as well as much of the rest of Asia (reduced around Iran and India) and Europe. Their last stronghold may have been Spain although they were inter-breeding in Israel a bit later.

          The genetic data from Denisova cave indicates that they bred with the locals. Indeed the scientists indicate a mixture of Denisovan, Neanderthal, H. sapiens and (possibly) a fourth race – H. erectus???
          Recent discoveries have pushed the origin of H.sapiens back to 310,000 years in NW Africa. We also have the Hobbit (Homo floresensis) which isn’t classed as H. sapiens, but some earlier off-shoot, possibly H. erectus. And they got to Flores from the other side of the Timor gap (in other words ocean travel). That makes 5 races wandering 40-60,000 years ago.

          The higher incidence of Denisovan genes in Melanesia than northern Australia (as well as in remnant groups in Asia) would support a theory of more than one migration. And the lower incidence across Australia as you go SW also suggests a later migration.

          But since Neanderthals were robust physically and had huge brains, we can rule them out as ancestors of modern trolls.

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    • #
      Ian George

      http://www.warriors.egympie.com.au/littlepeople.html
      This is a report I found many years ago. I started researching this issue after the Mungo man discovery was hushed up.
      I also found a reference to ‘little people’ living around the hills behind Tamworth in Mitchell’s diary when exploring around Tamworth.
      Another good source
      http://www.thehandstand.org/archive//february2007/articles/australia.htm

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      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Thanks Ian

        Had a quick look at the second link, seems very interesting. Will have to finish it tomorrow.

        I had never heard of these people. Says something about our past.

        KK

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      • #
        Annie

        Looked at the first link. Quite distressing to read.

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    • #
      Jonesy

      There is also a push to have the local Kimberley aborigines embrace the “rubbish art”, “bird people” art, Bradshaws as their creations. Another civilization that appeared wiped out about 12000Years ago. Bradshaws date back possibly 50,000 years and are obviously a different culture of people to the Wandjina. Wandjina art dates back a maximum of 4 to 5000 years…hence the leftie attempt to have history rewritten.

      I have also been watching a lot of Randall Carlson of late. He gets a bit mystic at times but his geologic data is spot on. The collapse of the great American ice sheets causing giant floods across the Midwest is boggling in scale.

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    • #
      jeff

      Jo, no worries, its best to delete it,
      it was a bit extreme and could cause upset.
      Actually I’m glad you didn’t let through.

      40

      • #
        Yonniestone

        What did you say?

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        • #
          jeff

          Just something about my thought that multiple waves of migration have occured in human populations around the world in pre-history.
          But I don’t any detailed knowledge about it.

          40

          • #
            toorightmate

            The Huns didn’t have much time for texting and YouTube videos – they just did it!

            40

          • #
            Hanrahan

            The Yanks have this crazy idea that they are a land of immigrants and are thus duty-bound to welcome millions more.

            Australia was settled by convicts. By the same logic we should roll out the red carpet to the world’s criminals.

            This may seem absurd to you ‘n me but many of our elected representatives don’t see the absurdity. :(

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            • #
              Hanrahan

              My post #47 was a reply to Jeff’s #45.

              00

            • #
              RAH

              Hanrahan

              The majority of Yanks do not hold the view. And that is the real run over here now. The government is not and has not been acting based upon the will of the people. President Trump will be supported by many of us if this so called “government shutdown” goes on until we get funding for the wall no matter how long it takes. Building the wall and securing the boarder was a very high priority during his campaign and he knows he has to gain a lot more towards that goal than he has to maintain his base. It’s the RINOs/never Trumpers in the Republican party that thwarted his earlier efforts when the Republicans had majorities in both houses of congress.

              40

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                RAH:

                And as the public service voted heavily against him he might not see any problem with them getting a taste of unemployment.

                20

          • #
            David Maddison

            There is a fascinating YouTube channel by “Masaman” about the origins and genetics of various human populations.

            https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1vVNQN-TCy8d3Mb_Owr2Kw

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    • #
      Graeme#4

      And what happened to the Bureau Of Mendacity’s prediction for an El Niño in 2018? They also predicted one for 2017/2018, and when that failed to eventuate, they just moved their prediction to this year, which also seems like failing to eventuate. No doubt they will try again next year, and never once confess that they gave been wrong twice.

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      • #
        glen Michel

        The big thing about Australia’s weather is dry air from the Indian Ocean and a ridging High pressure in the Tasman sea.Very warm anomalies there as well. like last year. Reason for continuing heat over the SE. Great weather for drinking beer.I recommend Pilsener Urquel – a fine Czech drop. Serve at 3degrees.

        60

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Much the opposite now in Perth, for the third summer running. During summer we used to have warm dry air from the interior most mornings, then the cooling moist “Fremantle Doctor” in the afternoons. Now a lot of days no warm-hot easterlies, replaced by cooler humid air directly from the south. And increased cloud cover. Not complaining though.

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        • #
          Mal

          I was in Europe Oct 2018 and spent a week in Prague.
          Czech beer is great.
          Also was in Bavaria.
          The beer here is great.

          50

          • #
            yarpos

            I was at a work function (obviously pre #metoo) where a Pom guy challenged a Czechy girl to a beer drinking contest. He was so screwed. Dont mess with Czechy girls.

            70

      • #
        el gordo

        Next year we could have a monster El Nino because that warm water in the Pacific is going nowhere.

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  • #
    • #
      el gordo

      I’ve given you a tick for trying, but Mary looked nothing like that and John Stuart Mill was a Utilitarian, highly critical of religious practices.

      30

    • #
      el gordo

      Jesus, Mary and Joseph were a small part of an extended Jewish family from Galilee and looked entirely different to the European presentation.

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      • #
        Annie

        There was an excellent series about the Nativity produced by the BBC (yes, really!) a few years ago. The casting of Mary and Joseph was much more realistic than usual and we really loved watching it. I had hoped it would reappear over Christmas sometime but it has entirely vanished. The casting, acting and dialogue were brilliant.
        Has anyone any idea what became of it and if it is obtainable?

        A further comment…if the coming of Christ is relevant to all ages and places, it can be expected that local interpretations of how the Holy Family looked will be in local colour.

        30

        • #
          el gordo

          Its a cargo cult.

          20

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘…if the coming of Christ is relevant to all ages and places, it can be expected that local interpretations …’

          When Christian missionaries first confronted the neolithic peoples of Melanesia and New Guinea it must have been shocking, but a little bit of religion didn’t do them any harm.

          Essentially, cargo cults are millennarism movements ‘in the sense that they anticipate the coming of a golden age where sin, suffering and death have been removed and replaced with a utopian society on this earth.

          ‘Messianic, in that the anticipated millennium will be brought about by the coming of a messiah-like figure, usually an ancestor, who is able to supernaturally rescue the people from whatever political-economic crisis in which they happen to be.

          ‘These elements of a cargo cult utopian society are coupled with nativistic and culturally specific beliefs. If certain rituals are performed or certain edicts are followed, the ancestors of that particular tribe or people group will return from the realm of the dead and usher in this golden age.’

          M L McDowell 1994

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          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Interestingly, Christianity is the only belief system that has a figure who came to take away peoples sins.

            I think the “cargo cult” label applies to cults, not an open belief system like Christianity. I dont use the word “religion” to describe Christianity, as it implies a closed off belief system.

            What I like about Christianity, is that if you look at Jesus death, it was after being scourged and he was between 2 thieves in a cosmopolitan city in the middle of the civilised world at the time, and its a belief system design to be lived in the real world on the ground, not shut away in an isolated space like a cult.

            10

            • #
              el gordo

              Spiritual movements are an indication of humanity’s need for a point of being, but eventually the high priests bring in bureaucracy and it ruins everything. Christianity is a religion.

              I believe in the biblical flood story, because there is evidence to support it, but the crucification and resurrection is only supported by unreliable evidence. It requires faith.

              Its conceivable that the virgin birth happened 2000 years ago, producing a messiah-like figure, but I want to know more about those two angels before reaching a definitive answer.

              10

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        Yonniestone

        I always imagined Jesus would have looked like Ted Nugent but I guess its my generational bias.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Why do climate change catastrophists Al Gore and “our” Flim Flammery own expensive waterfront properties eh?

    A Leftist told me they didn’t live near the water and this was a myth from the Ray Hadley radio show from 7 or 8 years ago but like most Lefist “facts” this simply isn’t true:

    Gore does indeed live close to the ocean as is apparent in the Google image:
    https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/al-gores-house-2/view/google/

    And Flannery lives in a house on the Hawkesbury just 6m above high tide.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Flannery

    Then the Lefist told me neither had preficted water level rises of more than 6m this century. That isn’t true either:

    Flannery has endorsed the opinion of James Hansen who predicted a 25 metre rise within ten years as of 2006.
    https://amp.theage.com.au/national/climates-last-chance-20061028-ge3fvb.html

    Gore predicted a 20 foot rise (6.1m) in his first science fiction movie.
    https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/uncategorized/scary-sea-level-rise-check-science/

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      TdeF

      An amazing pair. Al Gore and Tim Flannery are both mathematically incompetent essayists. Flannery’s degree was in English. He could not get into Science. That these two science nincompoops tell us about the certainty of a complex business of the operation of planetary forces which underpin the world’s weather, from sea currents to the statosphere, cosmic rays, spectroscopy and chemistry, physics and computer modelling is beyond belief. Gore’s essay was on the effect of television on the Nixon presidential campaign.

      Clearly both are head and shoulders over mere scientists. Science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard was really a nuclear physicist too and only he knew about the aliens and the Thetans. Sure.

      Of course they live on the waterfront, the pope lives in a palace with servants, politicians travel in luxury at your expense. All well deserved. They only have your interests at heart.

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    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Read the story “James Hanson, director of NASA’s Goddard Institute, is arguably the world authority on climate change. He predicts that we have just a decade to avert a 25-metre rise of the sea.” You are just trying to scare the kiddies.

      713

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          there is a world of difference in saying 10 years to avert a 25 meter rise, over 10 years for a 25 meter rise. Understand?
          In the first instance you are trying to stop something from happening in the future, in the second it is already happening and it will take a specified time. Hansen et all are saying the first, while David is saying the second

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          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Thanks for the clarification but it.just adds to the point that there’s no science involved in the Gore _ Hansen predictions.

            It is an acknowledged fact that after the high point of the last big ice melt about 7,000 years ago ocean levels have Dropped between 4 and 6 metres.

            Ocean levels have oscillated down to present levels, which in historical terms, are extremely stable.

            The attempt to characterize current sea level movement as indicative of global warming is politically inspired non science.

            KK

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            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              I do not misquote, nor do I distort. That’s the point I was making. Dishonesty like that cheapens any discussion and removes trust. You do see that at least?

              714

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Weird stuff indeed.

                You give the impression of being a highly experienced nitpicker and I sincerely hope that one day you can expand your horizons.

                KK

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              • #
                AndyG55

                Your appearance in any discussion cheapens the discussion, Pfutz.

                You have NOTHING worthwhile saying, and what you do say is based very heavily on mistruths and lies.

                Being that you obviously try, in vain, to support the AGW mantra, you are the very last person who should be commenting about dishonesty.

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              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                I do not misquote, nor do I distort. That’s the point I was making. Dishonesty like that cheapens any discussion and removes trust.

                But you are distorting and I don’t trust you.

                This is what was said by Flannery in 2006:

                “Before 2004, the rate of melt was such that scientists believed the icecap would melt entirely by about 2100. At the trajectory set by the new rate of melt, however, there will be no Arctic icecap in the next five to 15 years. And with no ice, the Arctic region will rapidly begin heating, perhaps by as much as 12 degrees.”

                The man is a fool.

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            AndyG55

            Either is just a load of anti-science hog-wash, based on mindless hallucinogenic nonsense.

            Just the sort of swill you live on, Pfutz.

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            el gordo

            Peter sea level is not rising because of CO2, that is the important point.

            “Consideration of extreme scenarios has some value, but they’re portrayed as the expected outcome, and that’s really not useful.”

            Judith Curry

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            glen Michel

            Very disappointing Peter that you take the words of those two. Hansen believes “the oceans will boil”. Such hyperbole does his credibility in I would think. Gore is a type of malevolent pied piper.

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          • #
            sophocles

            You’re just trying to scare the kiddies.

            Tony Heller drops Hansen right in it, Peter, with his video Ten Days to Save the Planet and proceeds to run over him. Several tomes. Your claims are so much hair splitting. Go look up the current and the previous 25, 30, 40 or 50 years rate of sea level rise (PSMSL and local tide guages, several people should be able to supply you with the URLs) and check the data first hand. From those results, you can simply project that for the next 80 years. Then you can tell us how many hundred years we will have to wait for it to reach 1.5, 2 or 2.5 metres. While you doing that, also check the GPS to see what Australia’s East and West Coasts coasts are doing for rising and falling and at what rates. Factor that in.

            When you’ve done that, guess what? You will have done your own research (for once) and not relied on somebody `trying to scare the kiddies.. That’s something most of us here do for ourselves so if you want to know why you’re treated with a big *yawn* there’s your answer.

            Tony published his video on 23rd of this month, so it’s pretty current. He’s a very reliable reasearcher and commentator.

            Hey guys ‘n girls! I guess we have about three days left, before we’re hit by Hansen’s prediction projection Male Bovine Excrement.

            [that’s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ29bIlED5c

            FYI: The atmosphere at the surface of the oceans remains at a maximum of 38 °C constantly on even the hottest days. Evaporation maintains that temperature and the mass in the oceans is more than sufficient to maintain the `momentum’ and keep it stable.

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            • #
              sophocles

              PSMSL = Permanent Service for Mean Sea Level and its website is http://www.psmsl.org. Have a good play: it has some fascinating toys … ah tools.

              That’s one source.

              40

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              How about just reading my first post. But then posters on this site do not take criticism well. My point stands

              34

              • #
                AndyG55

                Do you really “believe™” that tomorrow, 25m of sea level rise is now “locked in”

                25m of sea rise from now is an absolute certainty, according to Hansen, but by when ?????.

                Even if you take the 3mm+/year coming from adjusted satellite values.. can you work out how many year that will take ???

                You really are brain-hosed gullible Pfutz, aren’t you.

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              • #
                sophocles

                I have read your first post and I will say now that nothing Hansen has claimed will happen has come to pass. I thought you wouldn’t need that reminder so I’m hammering on that nail again. Hansen is only an expert on his beliefs, which are not science.

                50

            • #
              AndyG55

              Your point is POINTLESS, Pfutz.

              Both interpretations are based on abject nonsense.

              But keep digging.. its funny to watch.

              33

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        One thing ive always wondered – how much heat energy would have to be transferred from the air and/ or radiate directly from the sun ( ignoring volcanic influence – if scientifically sound to do so ) to cause the seas to expand sufficiently to rise 25m?

        Does anyone know?

        I figured if the atmosphere was the main source of heat to heat the oceans, given the mass of the oceans, the air temp would have to bemaybe 100C or hotter, which means you would die from breathing superheater air, well before we’d be worried about our dingy moored at the beach, floating off….as the seas rose.

        Any thoughts?

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          Peter Fitzroy

          At that air temp – the surface would be close to boiling, so losses due to evaporation would be way more than increases due to temp rise.

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        • #
          RickWill

          Taking 1sq.m of ice with a thickness of 25m and latent heat of fusion of 334kJ/kg, it would require 8.35E9 joules to melt the block. The worst case energy imbalance in the IPCC fairy tale is 8.5W/sq.m so the block of ice would take 32 years to melt. This assumes perfect heat transfer from tropical oceans that collect the heat to ice covered land near the poles where ice is stored – better than it could possible be because the warmer surface would lose more heat so not all of the collected heat would get transported poleward to melt ice. Obviously the level of ice must drop more than 25m because ice covered land is a tiny area compared with total ocean surface area.

          Latest ocean heat content data from ARGO buoys shows oceans are no longer gaining heat. In fact since the Argo buoys were deployed the oceans are losing heat at about 0.2W/sq.m.
          http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~douglass/papers/Douglass_Knox_pla373aug31.pdf
          That means more ice will be getting formed as we see with the recent growth in Greenland and possibly Antarctic ice.
          http://sciencenordic.com/how-greenland-ice-sheet-fared-2018
          http://dro.dur.ac.uk/24845/1/24845.pdf?DDD14+nffl37+d700tmt
          The Antarctic data has large error bands in determining trends with current measurement methods. Over the last 25 years authors determine Antarctic ice loss has contributed 7.6mm to increase in ocean level. Extrapolating that rate it would require 83,000 years to increase ocean level by 25m – DON’T PANIC.

          I require a 30m rise in sea level to have beach frontage. I consider it highly improbable in my remaining life.

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            Sceptical Sam

            Thanks Rick,

            Re: Your third reference – Mass balance of the Antarctic ice sheet from 1992 to 2017

            I just can’t help but smile at how imprecise these guessimates are. This one in particular (from line 38) actually made me laugh:

            We find large variations in and among model estimates of surface mass
            balance and glacial isostatic adjustment in East Antarctica, and its 25-year mass trend (5 ± 46 Gt/yr) is still the least certain.

            The error estimate is 9 times the estimate.

            Calculating sea level rise from such imprecise guestimates demonstrates why the integrity and credibility of this sort of work is so problematical. Of course, none of that matters to the green-left or their media guardians.

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            sophocles

            Antarctica is gaining ice in both East and West Antarctica. (I’m not so sure about West Antarctica ATM, The volcano under the Byrd glacier seems to have has ceased erupting. For now.)

            20

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Steve

          An earlier response seems to have disappeared.

          Basically it said that if ocean temperatures could go from the current 20°C to 30, then oceans might rise by 2 metres.

          That’s very very rough, but an indication.

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            AndyG55

            NOAA data shows a rise I the top 2000m in 60 years of 0.08ºC

            So plus 10ºC ocean temperature, assuming a linear trend (lol), will take 7500 years,

            You know, like into the next major Ice Age. :-)

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              OriginalSteve

              Thanks all, its useful to know.

              I often figured the climate change mirage was mathematically impossible within a mans normal lifespan….

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      For what it is worth (in brass razoos) both K. Rudd and J. Gillard bought new houses near the sea.

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    GreatAuntJanet

    aaand one more article for Sunday perusal – James Delingpole describing the situation people like himself and Jo find themselves in.

    41

    • #
      TdeF

      When you cannot answer his arguments, question his facts, you allege he is funded by evil men who are against ‘the Science’ of Global Warming. This new progressive approach to science means you do not need to be factually right, you just need a lot of people who agree with you. It’s as if the enlightenment and rational science never happened.

      220

  • #
    TdeF

    Interesting that the US has had its first year ever without a major tornado.
    Fascinating that the snows in November were the third highest on record.
    Obviously extreme events caused by 0.5C of warming over 100 years.

    However neither were worthy of a press mention except in Breibart but then Breitbart is an extremist fascist site because it prints unpalatable facts which deny man made Global Warming and its daughter, terrible Climate Change.

    Then I never understood the ‘science’ where +0.5C makes events worse and not better.
    Is a complete lack of devastating tornadoes an extreme event? Could it be worse than none?

    In fact the most devastating extreme even in the US this year were the terrible wild fires caused by Donald Trump and his withdrawal from the Paris Accord, not total forest mismanagement by the extreme Green councils, Federal agencies and the Democratic California government. Still they blame Trump.

    Then how exactly did those fiendishly clever Russians get Donald Trump elected?
    I suppose the explanation is an FBI/CIA/Democrat secret. Nothing like Billionaire Linkedin Owner’s disinformation campaign to change the Alabama Senate Election result. He openly admits it but says he knew nothing about the project he funded. Odd. Where is Mueller and the FBI?

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Well there’s still another day to go to get that extreme tornado…

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    • #
      RicDre

      There was a major tornado in Canada this year. Obviously Global Warming Climate Change Climate Weirding is causing the tornadoes to move north where it is cooler.

      60

  • #
  • #
    David Maddison

    Were the Maori really the first settlers in New Zealand?

    https://youtu.be/2z6PlYiQSTs

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    • #
      Sambar

      My Maori sister in law ( and all of her relatives ) freely admit that Maori where not the first people to settle New Zealand. If you ask where are these original settlers today,the serious answer is ” we ate them”

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      • #
        TdeF

        They were delicious.

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      • #
        Yonniestone

        Going by the first peoples described your sister in laws relatives would’ve been Short Order Cooks……….

        60

      • #
        Dennis

        I understand that the Moriori people still exist on an island within the New Zealand territory and that they were indeed eaten by the Maori people after they colonised.

        My Kiwi family spans back to the first Anglican Missionary, Henry Williams, who became a close friend of the Maori and translated their language into English, supported them at the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi at Government House built years after the first Mission House in the hinterland behind Pahia, Bay of Islands. I have been told that the Maori also speak about white skinned, red haired people who arrived from the East before Australia was colonised in 1788.

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    • #
      sophocles

      You should find these interesting, Dennis.

      PlummTree Productions produced a some historical productions which got right up the noses of some people.

      There’s: Skeletons in the closet (Episode 1) The Red Heads
      Skeletons in the closet (Episode 2) Under the Carpet

      and there is:
      Cousins Across the Sea. investigating links between New Zealand and Hawaii.

      Some great research went into these. I think there are more but I’m sure you’ll be able to find them.

      40

      • #
        Dennis

        Thank you.

        By the way, Muckaty Station is a pastoral property in the Northern Territory of Australia and now Aborigine Land Council owned.

        The name was what the local Aborigines told explorers, apparently they pointed at those white people and called them Muckety. According to Major Les Hiddens of the Australian Army, “Bush Tucker Man” on an ABC series into foods available off the land used by the Aborigines and researched by Major Hiddens for a Army Survival Manual, Muckety referred to the Musket weapon. As that weapon was obsolete by the time white explorers arrived in Central Australia after colonisation in 1788 and from Aborigine legend description of the Muckety men, there must have been survivors from a ship wreck, possibly on the Western Australian coast, who walked across Australia for survival purposes and carrying weapons. They too had red hair I understand.

        20

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          The Brown Bess musket was standard military equipment until 1838, after which it was often used having been converted to percussion cap ignition. There were plenty also used by civilians.

          Can’t remember where but there was a bit about Dutch? survivors farming in the NT (with irrigation) when early explorers arrived.

          20

  • #
    David Maddison

    Tony Heller looks at testable predictions of James Hansen. He did this ten days ago but now there is only about one day left to save the planet.

    https://youtu.be/U2z-UPTDjW0

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  • #
    robert rosicka

    A friend who is a bit thrifty wants to get solar to help reduce his electricity bill , ROI is of no concern to him nor saving the planet , just cheaper bills .
    Rang a local company who asked him for a quarterly bill and on receiving the bill they rang him and said forget it you don’t need solar .
    I was amazed so I found out why , he only uses 2kw per day .

    100

    • #
      RickWill

      The connection fee must be the largest portion of the bill unless he has combined gas and electricity.

      Our house consumes 1.2kWh per day with just standby loads and there has been some effort to reduce these. (The microwave and oven remain powered. The clock/timer in the microwave consumes 3.3W costing about $8/yr or $80 over a ten year life – who looks at the standby power when they buy a microwave?)

      With such low daily usage he would be a candidate for solar plus battery and go off-grid to avoid the connection fee. System would need to be designed to handle the peak demand so that sets the size of battery and inverter, which would likely mean a long payback period.

      I wonder if it is possible to get all the government/consumers panel and battery contributions for an off-grid system?

      40

      • #
        jeff

        Connection fee for me is about $1 a day.
        I use about 4kWh per day – about another $1.
        So my bill about $700 per year.
        A Tesla powerwall is about $12,350 plus installation.
        It will last 10-20 years.
        So it is hard to justify the cost.

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        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          You get it, jeff.

          I’m amazed that so many others don’t. The power of propaganda combined with an inability to do a quick cost/benefit analysis, I suppose.

          Nevertheless, you need to add to the cost of your battery, the cost of the panels, plus the cost of an inverter (plus a replacement at around year 10). Plus another battery at around year 10 as well. Depreciate the lot to zero over 20 years. Then do the Opportunity Cost of the installation.

          Oh! And don’t forget to clean them. Regularly.

          80

          • #
            jeff

            I doubt many at all who are on the grid, will take the extreme step to go off grid,
            so you don’t save the daily connection fee anyway.
            In which case it will be a long time, if ever before batteries are cheap enough to make them economic.

            60

          • #
            MatrixTransform

            the situation looks even worse if the ROI includes a discount rate

            10

        • #
          RickWill

          There is constant forecasts of reducing battery costs but so far the costs are no better than steady in AUD terms. The only prospect of prices coming down is direct government subsidy or mandated subsidy from consumers. The only realistic justification for some form of battery subsidy is for stabilising the grid so I suspect that an off-grid system will never get subsidy. That aside you could get the system installed, ensuring it will operate off-grid, then just avoid paying any electricity bill. In fact if you have 6kW of panels then your surplus at 8c/kWh would more than cover the connection fee so you would get an annual credit payment.

          6kW of panels and a 14kWh Powerwall would supply up to 7kWh daily demand year round on mainland Australia. So a Powerwall 2 is possibly larger than you need. The peak power from the battery of of 5kW is likely to be needed though. That is a jug and toaster with maybe a fridge kicking in.

          The payback will depend on the available subsidies. That depends on where you live. The battery subsidies are significant – I have read $6000 for SA, $5000 for Victoria and the ACT would work out at more than $4000 for a Powerwall 2.

          Batteries installed in households are a lower cost option for everyone than any form of grid scale storage. The Hornsdale Power Reserve cost AUD90M or $680/kWh. SA subsidy of $6000 for a 14kWh Powerwall 2 is only costing $480/kWh in subsidy. Hence a cheaper option for the state while individual households are taking the bulk of the risk.

          I will be taking a close look at what Victoria is offering but in no rush. The Victorian PFIT of $660/MWh is till 2024 so using on-grid solar in the house would reduce my electricity income.

          20

          • #
            Bodge it an scarpa

            Can any of the learned folk here comment on so called ‘Super Capacitors’ as an alternative to batteries ?

            10

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              I don’t know, but from what is understood about capacitors generally, they may be for very brief, emergency type situations.

              Maybe for startup situations to help kick over a big motor.

              10

              • #
                Bodge it an scarpa

                If one googles ‘How Super Capacitors will make batteries a thing of the past ‘ there are a few You Tube videos on the subject. I don’t have any aptitude for electronics, so would prefer commentary/opinions from those whose technical knowledge I have come to appreciate on this blog.

                10

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Sorry.

                00

              • #
                Bodge it an scarpa

                Why “Sorry” KK ? I wasn’t being critical !

                10

              • #
                Hanrahan

                The bigger the capacitor the longer it can power a given load. In electronics 10 millisecs is a long time.

                The feature of capacitors that have the nerds wetting their pants is the theoretical rapid charge time but as always there are some fundamental science problems with that. To reduce “range anxiety” a five seater sedan will need over 100 KWH storage which will still take 40 hours to charge at home from a 10A, 240V GPO. Conversely to charge this capacitor in the 5 minutes spoken of you would need to supply 500A @ 240V. Home welder and starter motor cables are designed to handle much less than 100A, maybe 50A

                The drag-lines working the Bowen Basin coal mines need dozers to drag around their power cords. Does anyone know their current demands?

                40

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Bodge it ,,

                :-)

                00

            • #
              AndyG55

              “Can any of the learned folk here comment on so called ‘Super Capacitors’ as an alternative to batteries ?”

              KA-BOOOOOOM !!!

              32

            • #
              Graeme#4

              I’m a year late to the party, but I’ll still dip my oar in. Super caps work well for small applications but I doubt that it will be possible to commercially produce the really large ones required for large-scale energy storage. Their internal resistance (ESR) is one major limitation when compared to batteries. They also still have limited charge/discharge cycles.

              10

              • #

                A few references to super caps:

                00

              • #
                Graeme#4

                Sigh… I’ll eventually figure out how to insert links.
                Look up website supercaptech.com for a super cap vs battery comparison.
                Google “MIT unveils nanolithia cathode battery”. It’s not really a battery, more a super cap. Was discussed recently on WUWT.

                00

              • #
                yarpos

                They have been touted as the big answer vs batteries for some time now and not much has changed. It is starting to look like they are a very usefull niche product.

                00

        • #
          Hanrahan

          WOW, I buy 16KWH a day plus my home generation and according to Ergon my usage is average for the area. How can you guys use so little?

          10

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Hanrahan,

            Yep. I use 20 kWh per day in Perth. I can’t see how RickWill gets by with 7.

            Even if I used 16 kWh I couldn’t get the blinky thing of just 3 kW to “pay for itself”. Ever.

            However, I wish him all the best with his climbing aboard the public subsidy drip feed.

            Your taxes at work.

            3.0 Kw System, Perth, 40/60:day/night split of power usage.

            Capital outlay: $5,500 + $1,500 (replace Inverter after 10 years)

            Standing Costs ($ pa):

            Depreciation (over 20 years) = 350 (1)
            Opportunity Cost (at 6% pa) = 375

            Total Standing Costs = 725

            Running Costs (2) ($ pa):

            Cost of grid power used

            4,383 kWh @ 24.0 c/kWh = 1,052
            Less: sale to grid
            1828 kWh @ 7.1 c/unit = 130

            Net Running Costs (3) = 922

            Clean & maintain = 200

            Total Cost $ pa = 1,847 (4)

            Power – kWh/annum (2)

            Total household power use = 7,305
            Solar output (3) = 4,750
            Solar used = 2,922
            Solar sold to grid (FiT) = 1,828
            Power purchased from grid = 4,383

            Summary

            Cost of power/unit (kWh) (4)
            - with solar (5) 25.3 cents
            - without solar 24.0 cents

            Conclusion

            For the type of usage outlined here (see note (2)) a 3.0 kW solar installation will add $95 to annual electricity costs compared to purchasing directly off the grid. Over the panels’ 20 year life that’s $1,900. Under this scenario, the panels will never “pay themselves off”. The cost per kWh of every unit of electricity is greater with the solar installation than if purchased wholly from the grid.

            The Net Financial Outcome after 20 years favours the non-solar panel consumer by at least $16,400 (6) over the consumer who invested in a 3.0 kW system.

            Notes below:

            30

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Notes.
              1. Depreciation based on 20 years for the panels and 10 years for each of the inverters.
              2. Based on daily average power consumption of 20 kWh (20 Units) with a 40/60:day/night split.
              3. Based on a 3.0 kW PV system delivering an average of 13 kWh per day in Perth, Western Australia. Does not include any allowance for performance degradation of the panels over time; whereas there is a compounding degradation in panel performance that ranges between 0.5% and 3.0% per annum. If a figure of 1.0% were used, a 3.0 kW installation, at Year 10, would have its nameplate capacity reduced by around 0.3 kW, translating to 1.3 kWh per day (costing an additional $115 pa @ 24.0c/unit); at Year 15 the reduction would be around 0.45 kW or 1.9 kWh per day ($166 pa). The total additional cost amounts to (approx.) $2,250 over the life of the installation for the purchase of additional power off the grid to make up for the shortfall due to degradation. For more detail see figure 2, page 6 in:
              Jordan, Dirk C. and Kurtz Sarah R. “Photovoltaic Degradation Rates — An Analytical Review”. (National Renewable Energy Laboratory, US Department of Energy, 2012). Available at: https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/51664.pdf
              4. Excludes Supply Charge (ie., connection to grid) and GST thereon.
              5. Excludes costs for the removal of the panels from the roof, make-good and disposal of the environmentally toxic material that they contain, at the end of their productive life.
              6. Comprises the additional 1.5 cents cost per kWh over 20 year life of the system ($1,900) plus Standing Costs over the 20 year life of the system ($14,500) = $16,400.
              7. Errors due to rounding.

              20

            • #
              Graeme No.3

              Sceptical Sam:

              Add a battery to really stuff up your return.
              South Australia has 30,000 eager for their $6,000 ‘subsidy’ towards a battery. Originally only Sonnen (made in SA) were allowed but Tesla have come back (like a hungry shark) for a second bite at those subsidies. And where does the State Government get that $180 million? Choose one(only) of the following -
              Tooth Fairy (left under your pillow)
              Fairy Godmother (personally delivered by pumpkin coach)
              All electricity users by higher charges (stuffing the calculation)

              20

            • #
              RickWill

              I operate the fridge and freezer off-grid. Their average daily consumption is a little under 3kWh. More in summer and less in winter.

              The linked chart has my metered data for the year:
              https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq1iAj8Yo7jNgxUngFkU6ernpTZv
              The total export was 2274kWh. The total import was 1596kWh. The on-grid solar system output is 3042kWh as of 1500hrs 31 Dec. That gives the internal solar consumption of 795kWh. Hence the total power consumed internally from the grid and on-grid solar is 2391kWh, which averages 6.6kWh per day.

              The house has gas central heating and gas water heating. I have a few small solar lights and pumps that help reduce the grid demand. I also run a roof cavity ventilating fan on the off-grid system. That has had a measurable impact on the summer heat load in the house.

              There were only two of us in the house through most of this year. We were out of the house for two weeks in February and some visitors in November. Note that November also had 20% less solar insolation than average for that month.

              Because I have the original PFIT it is worth my while to maximise export so dishwashing is done at night. We rarely run the evaporative cooler but if it runs it is normally after the sun has gone down. The house is well insulated and we have good blinds on all windows that we can use to help control heat out or in depending on the time of the year.

              All my solar stuff came from funds that were in term deposits. Originally the TDs did get 6% but are now averaging 3% so that is the cost of funds. I spend less than 1 hour a year cleaning panels and there are no special tools required.

              Both my on-grid and off-grid system have paid for themselves. My only disappointment was not keeping the failed inverted that was replaced under warranty after 3 years. The inverter was a really solid Chinese design but they all developed a card fault that could not be repaired because the supplier went out of business. At the time I was told that there was a warehouse full of the same inverters all having the same intermittent fault. I would have liked to open it up and attempt repair. The German designed Thai made replacement has worked flawlessly for over 6 years now.

              If you look at ProductReview there are quite a few solar installeers who are highly rated:
              https://www.productreview.com.au/c/solar-power-providers.html
              I doubt people would give 5-star rating for a system if it was not delivering the savings somewhere around expectation.

              Before I installed the solar I did a lot of assessment on what consumed power. I have ditched appliances with high standby demand or placed them on automatic shutdown switches. All lights are now LEDs.

              My next big energy item is a wood burner. I have been accumulating wood from trees when branches are bigger than 50mm diameter and cannot be chipped. The wood burner should have about 8 year payback and add value to the house when the kids eventually sell it.

              20

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Rick,

                Well, I’ll not be taking funds out of my Superannuation (where I get better than 6% pa – tax free) to subsidize the production of my own electricity that ends up costing me more than that which I can purchase off Synergy.

                Any way, best of luck with your quest.

                For me, in Perth, it’s a Unicorn chase.

                10

              • #
                RickWill

                You will be lucky if your super fund has not lost money this year.

                Once you retire It makes sense to have low risk investments and that is TDs. My solar systems have been low risk, high return investments that I can manage quite closely. I have been a little surprised that the PFIT has remained in place.

                00

              • #
                yarpos

                not much luck involved really, depends on what you choose to be invested in

                00

            • #
              Hanrahan

              I would simplify that calc:

              Your example uses 3,000 KWH of own generation which @ 25c/unit saves $750 pa plus a little from fit. Also, my opportunity cost is 1.2% because I lost so much in the crash of ’08 I am nowhere near the market. The cells work for me.

              I have no real idea how much of my generation I use myself because my Bosch inverter gives very little data. But the inverter doesn’t know if it’s o/p is used or exported and Ergon would have no idea what happens in my inverter. I guess I would need a wireless connection to my puter to know much.

              10

              • #
                RickWill

                Your meter data will be able to give import energy and export energy otherwise you would not have different rates applied to the directional energy flow; rather it would just be net value that a dumb meter produces. In fact this data should be on each statement.

                Ask you poles and wire provider for access to the data. Ausnet have a nice web based application for the data that they have modified since I complained about the automatic scaling. I expect other poles and wires owners will offer similar access.

                Your solar inverter should have the total power output; unless it is prehistoric. Even my original Chinese inverter had total solar power generated.

                20

            • #
              yarpos

              seems to assume a flat grid cost for 20+years?

              why not include the daily charge ? its a known mandatory simple charge. Given the detail you have gone to it seems odd not to have it in there

              00

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Gas heating and for stove top. Wood heating is very popular in the Adelaide Hills.

            10

            • #
              RickWill

              One of the discernible results of higher atmospheric CO2 is the increased rate of growth of trees. It seems that removing dead wood from crown land would be a tremendous community service as well as a convenient source of fuel for heating.

              For me it makes sense to dispose of the wood produced on our property rather than paying for it to be taken away. My 15HP chipper paid for itself in a few years and saves off-site disposal.

              40

  • #
    RickWill

    Graeme#4
    In late October you asked me whether my rooftop solar had deteriorating performance. I supplied the yearly figure as being 20% down on the average. I have since learnt that the yearly figure stored in the inverter is for a calendar year rather than a rolling 365 days. I was unaware the inverter has provision for the actual date – smarter than I thought.

    As of 29 Dec the YTD figure was 3021kWh and should end up around 3040kWh for the total year given last two days of the year will be overcast but sun high in the sky. The yearly average since the inverter was installed now works out at 3161kWh (somewhat higher than the previous calculated average of 3085kwh/yr because it now includes two extra months of higher output). This year is 4% down on that average value. Obviously the calculated yearly average is still subject to significant variation due to the cyclic variation each year so is dependent on when the total value is recorded. The most likely cause of any actual reduction in output is greater shadowing from growing trees. That is something I will monitor more carefully throughout the year.

    I also checked the BoM for solar insolation data for my location and this year has averaged 4.0kWh/sq.m./day, which is close to the average of the last 6 years.

    If I remember, I will check the data again at the end of next year.

    30

    • #
      Peter C

      Thanks Rick,

      My parents decided to install solar cells 3 years ago. The have 8 panels, which are poorly sited and get about 4 hours sunlight on a good day.

      I can bench mark their performance against yours if you can tell me how many panels are connected to your inverter.

      50

      • #
        RickWill

        Peter
        The on-grid system has 16 off 190W panels. The nominal system rating is 3kW. There are two arrays of 8 panels. One array faces 12 degrees east of north and the other array faces 78 degrees west of north. Both arrays are tilted at 24 degrees.

        For a 3kW system in my location with panels flat and unobstructed I should get 4380kWh per year based on average insolation for my location of 4.0kWh/yr. Having panels tilted should increase the value but having some panels facing almost west would reduce that value.

        My system would not be regarded as a benchmark because it has shading. There are calculators around that give realist values for a well installed system such as:
        https://www.lgenergy.com.au/calculator/suburb/berwick-vic/3806
        The 3884kWh per year is what I should expect without shading and panels at best orientation.

        There is no doubt that shading from trees on our system is the biggest factor in reducing solar output compared with potential output. However the tree shading is a significant factor in keeping the house cool on a warm day. So far this summer the house has not exceeded 26 degrees inside the lower level and we have only used the evaporative air cooler briefly at night to rapidly cool upstairs and the roof cavity. We only circulate the cooled air for a couple of hours through the upstairs area after dusk and have the upstairs ceiling fans pushing the chilled air into the roof cavity. Temperature in the roof cavity drops from say 40C to below 30C in about 30 minutes when ambient air is mid to high 20s. There is also the electric fan ventilating the roof cavity from outside once the cavity temperature exceeds 32C. That ensures the roof space is never much warmer than ambient air.

        The temperature in the roof cavity is a key factor in controlling the heat load in the house. Without ventilation it can easily exceed 50C under a tiled roof in Melbourne. Before I installed the cavity ventilating fan I have seen the temperature in mid 40s still at midnight. Keeping it close to ambient temperature on warm sunny days has a dramatic reduction on cooling requirements.

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        • #
          Graeme#4

          Very interesting to read how you economically control your house temperature Rick. I used to have an evap system in my previous house which was great for cheap cooling at night. Have recently shifted to a townhouse with reverse cycle air con, but in fact the townhouse is cooler during the day (no east or west-facing walls) so doesn’t need much cooling at night, even though I live in Perth’s southern suburbs.

          50

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Very interesting to read how you economically control your house temperature Rick. I used to have an evap system in my previous house which was great for cheap cooling at night. Have recently shifted to a townhouse with reverse cycle air con, but in fact the townhouse is cooler during the day (no east or west-facing walls) so doesn’t need much cooling at night, even though I live in Perth’s southern suburbs.

          11

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          We have a couple of those whirlygigs on our roof to vent the hot air during summer…seems to work pretty well, but I’d never go up into the roof cavity on a summers day as it would still be too hot I think.

          I have heard of people putting a fan at one end and a vent at the other end of a gable, to keep the temp down.

          00

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Thanks for the additional solar panel data Rick. I will add it to my info records on solar panels. I need to sit down and look at what you are saying, when added to the wealth of data that you have provided on solar panel use over the last year. It constantly amazes me that other folks readily pay lots for solar panels but never keep track of what’s going on with them.
      One question: Do you regularly clean them?

      50

      • #
        RickWill

        We live in a well developed area that is quite leafy. Air borne dust and other contamination is low. The occasional bombs from the local birds get washed off reasonably regularly by rain. I usually get up on the roof in early summer to remove persistent scum but not yet this year because the weather has been mild with abnormally high rain in November and December. The average insolation this past November was 5.0kWh/sq.m/day compared with 6.2 last year. That is indicative of much higher cloud cover and there was plenty of rain associated with that cloud.

        Physical cleaning involves stepping onto the roof from a gate next to the house carrying long handle brush and bucket then giving a light scrub with water and some detergent. I can rinse off the panels with water from a hose at ground level.

        The solar panels require less maintenance than the roof mounted evaporative cooler because leaves and seed pods are able to get into its water sump and smaller decayed matter find its way into fouling the water sprays above the filter panels. Removing the hood and cleaning the sprays is tedious and typically requires yearly attention. The cooler only gets used a maybe a dozen times a year – twice so far this summer.

        10

        • #
          FarmerDoug2

          I’ve had a few panels for 30 years and never cleaned them. They still get me a few hundred watts and generally do enough for computer, lights and tv. Cleaning would be a difficult and hazardous task.
          Most of our energy comes from diesel geny, gas, wood and solar hot water.
          I’ve long since decided the extra few amps, and diesel saved, were not worth the trouble.
          Doug

          20

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Thanks for the response Rick. I doubt that many solar panel owners would ever clean their panels as very few folks wander around their roofs. It still amazes me though to hear of the small consumption figures. My house was only a 3×2 yet I consumed 14 units of electricity and 14 units of gas every day on average. Large double-storey houses in Perth, with large twin air con systems and heated pools can consume over 70 units a day in summer.

          10

  • #
    Ross

    I am sure many of the Australian posters on the site are aware of this guy but for overseas posters like myself, this was new. Really interesting way of helping to combat drought in rural areas by mimicking nature. This is what I call real environmental work.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-29/soaking-up-australias-drought-natural-sequence-farming/10312844

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    • #
      PeterS

      I first saw his work many years ago. As expected he was ignored by the two main brain dead political parties.

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    • #
      PeterS

      We have various approaches at our disposal to convert much of our arid land into food bowls to feed the world but of course we do not have the will to do it. Instead the way we are going we will soon end up importing most of our food. Insane.

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      • #
        el gordo

        Peter Andrews is a great Australian and in the fullness of time his ideas will be adopted by those who are interested.

        A north south irrigation canal is probably the best way to alleviate water scarcity in the Murray Darling Basin.

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        • #
          Graeme No.3

          As also advocated by Bradfield and Idress in the early 1940′s.

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          • #
            el gordo

            They were visionaries, but there was never the political will, but now we have the technology, know how and money.

            Would it better to send water from Lake Argyle to the Murray Darling Basin through pipes or along canals?

            https://www.economist.com/china/2018/04/05/china-has-built-the-worlds-largest-water-diversion-project

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            • #
              Ross

              I am not an engineer el gordo but for Australia it would make more sense to me to use pipes. Why lose so much water by evaporation.
              I think the Chinese project also allows for transport of goods as well –there was a canal over this distance years ago and project effectively reopens the route ( I hope I am not mixing up two different projects)

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              • #
                el gordo

                Underground pipes would seem the best bet, with some dams along the way for the benefit of new satellite cities.

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              • #
                yarpos

                I recent years a lot of irrigation canals in northern vic changed to pipe (or covered?) to reduce evap losses. The evap losses across central Oz to the Murray Darling would have to be enormous. It hard to beleive anything but pipeline would be considered.

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              • #
                el gordo

                Then its agreed, but where along the way can they build small dams, using the monsoon drinking water as a resource?

                By the time it reaches the MDB it will take on the appearance of branches on a tree, there maybe a small charge to become connected.

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    • #
      Sambar

      Sorry folks, you are all missing the point. Ask any greenie and they will tell you, the only environment worth saving is the one that they believe has been there for ever. The one they see with their eyes.
      You must NOT change a desert environment into productive land, think of the lizards and snakes, more productive land equals more people, stop this insanity right now.
      Don’t you understand deserts are important, and don’t tell me there are sea shells in central Australia or petrified forests. The environment has allways been this way and MUST stay this way for ever.

      Sarc/

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      The best thing our pollies could do for farm land is to keep it a family business, big biz, particularly from OS, have no place.

      I say this because the younger generation farmers, the son/daughters, care personally about their land that is their main asset, and they are going to college where they learn HOW to do that.

      BTW Your grand-kids will never see water from Qld coastal rivers diverted to the Murray. They only flood for a few weeks every few years. The rest of the time the locals have first option on the water. The Burdekin is the only possible source and only if they build Hells Gate Dam which is on the western side of the divide. But why channel the water south with high evaporation instead of using it on the north’s black soil plains? It’s not as if there isn’t arable land being under-utilised up here.

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      • #
        Another Ian

        Hanrahan

        Re “I say this because the younger generation farmers, the son/daughters, care personally about their land that is their main asset, and they are going to college where they learn HOW to do that.”

        A person I know is currently doing an ag degree. I looked at what she is being taught on ecology and will have to wait till she’s got that exam behind her before broaching some of the rangeland ecology that didn’t make the course.

        I haven’t checked on anything else as yet.

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  • #
    Mark M

    Pointless planet saving waste of money of the year, 2018 Award.

    It was a crowded field of contenders, too many honourable mentions in runner-up (IPCC for one) but the poster child of 97% stupidity for me was …

    The Federal Government has approved an ambitious plan to put giant underwater fans on the Great Barrier Reef.

    0.20: “The Solution: Giant solar powered underwater propellors will slowly circulate water from a depth of 30m, pushing cooler currents onto reef flats.”

    0.40: “The federal government (tax-payer) today announced it will provide half the funds of the $4.5M project.”

    via 7news, Cairns@twitter: https://twitter.com/7NewsCairns/status/938681763592781824

    Meanwhile, on planet Earth …

    “LIFE FINDS A WAY: Great Barrier Reef somehow adapting to global warming

    Cancel the coral-bleaching apocalypse … life has somehow found a way to adapt to temperature increases.

    You know, just like life on the planet has done for the past 500M years or so …

    https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/12/17/life-finds-a-way-great-barrier-reef-somehow-adapting-to-global-warming/

    Happy New Year & safe silly season to all.

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      What if the cold water from the depths has collected nutrients [I believe it would], wouldn’t that nutrient overload encourage reef-killing algae?

      Our farmers cop hell because some of their fertiliser gets 70 KM out to sea. Don’t get me wrong, I believe a healthy reef has low nutrient levels and that it wouldn’t take much to upset the balance so farmers must be careful. This idea sounds foolhardy for the same reason.

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      • #
        TdeF

        When did an Australian ecological intervention actually work and not backfire horribly? Myxamatosis, cane toads, bindy eye, prickly pear, foxes, rabbits.

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        • #
          Sambar

          Not sure about myxo backfiring. I thought it was introduced to control rabbits which it did very effectivly for a long time. Yes its running out of usefulness, but it did the job in the day without any real unwanted consquences that I am aware of. I would not like to see the huge rabbit numbers of my youth return.

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          • #
            Annie

            Our daughter’s labrador was brilliant at catching young rabbits. The rabbits moved in after the firestorm of 2009 but we don’t see them now as the dog was so good at catching, and eating, the little dears.

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          • #
            Hanrahan

            Myxo worked well in the wetter climes, not so in the dry country, hence calicivirus.

            I remember when calici “escaped” quarantine the joke was “How fast does calicivirus spread?” Ans: “60 kph in a built up zone……” It got a lot of help BEFORE it’s official release.

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            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Gosh…that sounds like the virus that allegedly escaped a govt lab and shut down the equine indudtry 10 years ago… but the big win for the beaurocrats ( and i cant help if it was set up to be so ) that its now difficult to move a horse anywhere without everything in triplicate…talk about a paper pusher control freak dream outcome…

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            • #
              toorightmate

              My goodness Bugs Bunny, what big eyes you have.

              10

          • #
            Hanrahan

            Prickly pear was introduced as an ornamental, and went wild. One of the worst jobs men did during the depression was chopping it, but it grows from bits of leaf so that was never going to work. Modern intervention did.

            From Wiki:
            There is a monument to the Cactoblastis cactorum in Dalby, Queensland commemorating the eradication of the prickly pear in the region. The Cactoblastis Memorial Hall in Boonarga, Queensland, also commemorating the eradication.[3]

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        • #
          TdeF

          The plan to kills the Crown of Thorns starfish is just wrong. Caring people want to slaughter a species in our waters. As they have learned in Tahiti, the starfish is a boom and bust predator which prunes the reef and improves the environment over time for the entire community. They welcome it in song and legend, as they have done for a thousand years. The James Cook University are building autonomous swimming robots to inject poison.

          This is typical of a knee jerk reaction, like the whole of Man Made Global Warming. Who said an increase in temperature is a bad thing? Who said everything gets worse? Why would Tornadoes and Hurricnaes becomes worse, when they have dramatically become less frequent. So how do they know all this stuff? Since the last ice age, they are completely wrong. Sure +5C only 100 years is a lot but after thirty years, that is a ridiculous projection based on inadequate data. The ‘world temperature’ has hardly changed in the last 20 years.

          So would universities and governments please cease trying to stop change, simply because someone argues everything is perfect? If the coastline is being eroded, what is wrong with a sea wall? If the rivers dry out in summer, why is wrong with a dam or spillway or barricade? if a coal generator uses a tiny fraction of the area of land used by square miles of solar panels and hundreds of square miles of windmills, isn’t that great?

          The only consistent view is that we have to stop everything. So how has stopping population growth going? How is stopping CO2 growth going? How in fact does anyone expect to do that in Australia alone, even if it made sense.

          Regardless of alleged science, the interference in nature is often far worse than any side effect of industrialization which has delivered the greatest quality of life in human history. That is why every citizen of every energy poor country wants to run to America and Australia and England. Meanwhile our caring Greens are trying to wreck the joint.

          Finally, why are windmills only built in rich countries? How caring is that? Why is Caring Canberra earning tens of millions in our hard earned cash from ‘their’ windmills? Capitalist communists posing as caring.

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          • #
            yarpos

            Sadly JCU seems to be in the business of inventing problems then inventing stuff to deal with those problems, just to justify their own existence and lifestyle.

            Would the GBR and the world be worse off if JCU just slid into the sea? At the present rate of value add, I think not.

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          • #
            Greebo

            Michael Chrichton’s short essay on the hopeless mismanagement of Yellowstone National Park, written 15 years ago, comes squarely to mind. We have absolutely NO idea how to manage the environment. We have ZERO chance of even beginning to understand it. Most people, me included, struggle with the concept of water doing down the plug hole in different directions*, yet people, activists and alleged scientists, pretend to understand a system as complex as this planet. That alone is far too complex for us, without adding in influences of things like Luna, never mind Sol.

            The GBR may be the biggest coral reef there is, but it is by no means unique. Coral reefs exist in seas far warmer, and also far cooler than those off NQ. The Tahitians beliefs are probably more accurate than those of some wet behind the ears marine biologist’s. Old wive’s tales exist because of old wives, who knew more than their smart arsed kids.

            * I’ve heard of a bloke in Africa who made his meagre living by having a basin with a plug, and getting tourists to pay him to demonstrate by crossing the equator. I cannot verify this, and I wonder how far he would have to move his basin. It’s hard to see such a thing being viable over a few metres, but what would I know?

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          • #
            Hanrahan

            The plan to kills the Crown of Thorns starfish is just wrong. ……

            Have you ever swum the reef? I have, both before and after the COT infestations. To suggest that this animal “improves” the reef is as likely the story from Cheers that alcohol improves the brain by killing off the old and weak cells.

            The COT must be controlled if the GBR is to survive, let alone thrive.

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  • #
    toorightmate

    Our beloved anti-ADANI ABC is at it again today, now saying that the Company drilled illegal water bores.
    They are obviously convinced that ADANI’s management is a group of dills, not realizing that the Green Groups (and their legal eagles) who they oft quote are in fact, the real dills.
    No doubt the Greens movement also believes each German individual discharges 9 billion tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere each year. That is exactly what the Greens leader in Germany told a gathering of climate change experts. Not one of the experts told her she was out by a factor of 1 billion!!!!!

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    • #
      AndyG55

      Kluggy is a NON-ENTITY when it comes to knowing anything about climate or.. apparently economics.

      His opinion is only fit for a circular receptacle.

      Yet somehow, some gullible people listen to him.

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Contains the usual verbolicious twisting and turning that eventually presents reality as the Eco (vote for the environment) Truth.

      Why do these overindulged nitwits get to continue doing something that is unethical and immoral.

      We need re-education camps where they can mow the lawn, feed the chooks, water the garden and come to experience Reality.

      The world is Talking too much and thinking and reasoning far too little.

      KK

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  • #
    yarpos

    Lets hope the ATO doesnt get weapon envy

    https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/gao-irs-had-4487-guns-5062006-rounds-ammunition

    I wonder who the US IRS was planning to invade with 5 million rounds of ammo :-) Sounds a lot but as any shooter knows its really hard to have too much ammo.

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  • #
    yarpos

    Coal news.

    Adani are apparently going after an aboriginal activist for costs after a favourable ruling. $600k apparently, I guess getup or similar will pick up the tab.

    SBS ran a couple of coal=bad stories back to back. A piece on a botched up mine rescue attempt in northen India, followed up with coal mine closures in Spain. Oddly enough (for such a journalistically balanced outfit) nothing on coal exports or new coal generation in Africa/Asia/China.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Perhaps one reason why SBS and the ABC don’t talk about coal exports to fuel the many hundreds of coal fired power stations overseas is because some of those nations would consider them to be terrorists and come after them. We on the other hand are too soft and let them speak out against our use of coal. It will be interesting to see if SBS/ABC continue their attacks when Shorten is PM. How knows perhaps he will stand up to them and tell them where to go, something the LNP are too cowardly to do.

      10

      • #
        RicDre

        PeterS:

        If the SBS and ABC are anything like the US News Networks, they will be so busy fawning over Shorten that he won’t have to worry about them at all.

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      • #
        yarpos

        Their ABC was at it again last night doing a short year in review piece at the end of the news. A good chunk of it was Attenbouroughs tear jerking/ hand wringing IPCC speech overlayed with assorted fire/flood/drought/hurricane footage (short on tornadoes this year).

        You would think that before the last 20-30 years, the world has never seen fire/flood/drought/hurricane. The hysteria is only going north as nothing much, that hasnt happened before, continues to not happen.

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  • #
    pat

    25 Dec: WUWT: “Climate Hero” China’s Ecuadorian Earthquake Zone Dam, Paid for by Amazonian Oil
    by Eric Worrall
    Ecuador is scrambling to find a way out of a financial mess, a large green energy dam project built on a raft of alleged Chinese bribe money and unaffordable repayment terms, in the shadow of the unstable Revantador Volcano.

    NYT: It Doesn’t Matter if Ecuador Can Afford This Dam. China Still Gets Paid.
    By Nicholas Casey and Clifford Krauss Dec. 24, 2018
    (excerpt) Now, only two years after opening, thousands of cracks are splintering the dam’s machinery. Its reservoir is clogged with silt, sand and trees. And the only time engineers tried to throttle up the facility completely, it shook violently and shorted out the national electricity grid…

    Nearly every top Ecuadorean official involved in the dam’s construction is either imprisoned or sentenced on bribery charges. That includes a former vice president, a former electricity minister and even the former anti-corruption official monitoring the project, who was caught on tape talking about Chinese bribes…

    To settle the bill, China gets to keep 80 percent of Ecuador’s most valuable export — oil — because many of the contracts are repaid in petroleum, not dollars. In fact, China gets the oil at a discount, then sells it for an additional profit…
    Pumping enough oil to repay China has become such an imperative for Ecuador that it is drilling deeper in the Amazon, threatening more deforestation…

    FROM COMMENTS:
    Latitude: “Now, 7,648 cracks have developed in the dam’s machinery, according to the government, because of substandard steel and inadequate welding by Sinohydro.”
    Would that be the same steel that was shipped to Canada….relabeled as “made in Canada”…and sold to the US?
    …that Trump was fussing about?
    ….why yes, yes it would.
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/12/25/climate-hero-chinas-ecuadorian-earthquake-zone-dam-paid-for-by-amazonian-oil/

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  • #
    kevin george

    Time, that tattered, shrunken revenant of a once-popular news magazine, continues in its endless decline to delude itself that it has either the authority or the competence to name the “Person of the Year.” Brilliantly it named journalists — “The Guardians” — as 2018’s collective heroes, with Jamal Khashoggi given pride of place on the once-iconic cover. Time neglected to check on Khashoggi and now finds that it nominated a Qatar stooge, whose columns were midwifed by officers in the Qatar government, and whose “journalistic” career was but a distracting pendant to his many more serious activities, latterly as an anti-Saudi lobbyist, nephew to the one-time world’s biggest arms dealer, and a host of other shadowy mésalliances.

    Rex Murphy: Time is wrong. Today’s journalists are not ‘guardians of the truth’

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  • #
    Robber

    Welcome comments on my analysis of the 900 MW $1 billion Yarrabee solar project posted at #38.1.3 on the previous thread. “The new solar farm will produce enough energy for a city of one million people”. So just 25 of these and Australia’s total electricity needs will be covered – for free! (sarc)

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    • #
      Hatrack

      Have never actually been on “Yarrabee” itself, but am familiar with some of the surrounding country.
      If a proper EIS has been done, I find it hard to believe that the old standby ….”evidence to suggest there may be”…. (endangered Plains Wanderers) was not trotted out. I know for a fact that a research program on the birds is being carried out on a property nearby.

      Goes to show it’s OK to ignore an endangered species when it suits green ideology.

      Robber, re your analysis: to a layman like myself the points you made make perfect sense. As you say, the project needs 100% backup by a reliable supply, so why do we need it?

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    • #
      yarpos

      They must be a million very frugal people, if they reach the usual 30-40% of nameplate for even their grandest development plan

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  • #
    pat

    Keil makes it sound so simple:

    28 Dec: Jamaica Gleaner: Jan Keil: Want to reduce electricity costs? Go 100% renewable
    (Jan Keil is lecturer/assistant professor in the Department of Economics, University of the West Indies, Mona)
    Full costs for final users run about $40 for households and $30 for companies. Comparatively, in the United States full retail prices for households are at US$0.10 in some states, while industrial users in the southwest pay less than US$0.06…
    Most of Jamaica’s electricity runs on diesel, which is by far the worst possible source of electric energy one can choose…

    What is the alternative? Wind energy and, especially, photovoltaics. Even unsubsidised 20-year power-purchase agreements between private companies run at prices of as little as US$0.03 per kWh today. And panel manufacturers, as much as plant operators, lower costs and increase efficiencies on a monthly basis with larger module form factors (for example, First Solar’s new Series 6), drone application at the plant development stage, and cleaning robots in the servicing operations (for example, the SunPower Oasis system).
    Jamaica needs large, utility-scale solar farms. They are by far the cheapest source of electricity available today, and conditions on this island are perfect. Solar radiation levels in the Jamaican south are as high as in regions that are breaking cost records…

    People always think the big problem is: ‘What about when there is no sunlight?’ But, when it is cloudy, which is bad for solar, it is usually windy, which is great for wind energy. Additionally, with a few modifications, load generated by hydroelectric power plants can be reduced at daytime and increased at night. Existing diesel generators could even be sealed and kept as an emergency backup.
    The no sunlight-no wind problem at night has a full and simple solution, one that is 100 years old and proven like no other technology in the electricity industry. Its name is ‘pumped hydroelectric energy storage’…

    If Jamaica follows best standard practice, overall costs of electricity generation, plus storage, can add up to US$0.03 at daytime and US$0.055 at night. Accounting for inefficiencies, distribution and theft, the cost would double to US$0.11. But this is still one-third of today’s price.
    And, no diesel burnt.
    http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/business/20181228/jan-keil-want-reduce-electricity-costs-go-100-renewable

    21 Dec: Jamaica Gleaner: Jan Keil: Jamaica needs a special industrial zone
    As in China and Mexico, the D-Town/S-Town industrial zone cannot be freely accessible to the general public. Police and private services are currently not capable of managing the security, which requires the establishment of a special and independent police or military police unit.

    Electricity must not cost more than 10 US cents per kWh. In Jamaica, costs are more than double that rate. The answer lies in combining two proven technologies suited for this island: solar power – which is currently less than three cents/kWh in the best locations; and pumped-hydroelectric storage plants – storage costs at two cents/kWh in the best plants…

    Jamaica must copy China, Malaysia, and Vietnam in attracting companies with financial benefits; for example, extremely low initial taxes for a predefined period – maybe one per cent corporate income tax for 10 years, plus increments thereafter. Any deal with foreign investors must be protected by international arbitrage courts…
    http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/business/20181221/jan-keil-jamaica-needs-special-industrial-zone

    Keil attended the progressive left “New School in NYC:

    LinkedIn: Jan Keil, Assistant Professor (Tenure Track) at UWI, Department of Economics, Jamaica
    Previous: The New School, Deutsche Bank(intern 4 months 2011), Goethe University
    Education: The New School, New York, Doctor of Philosophy (PhD), Economics
    2009 – 2013
    Publications:
    The German Energy Transition – Issues and Perspectives
    AIDGS – American Institute for Contemporary German Studies
    February 2013
    ***State-of-the-art electricity storage systems Indispensable elements of the energy revolution
    Deutsche Bank Research March 2012

    Keil clearly knows it isn’t simple:

    ***PDF: 2012: State-of-the-art electricity storage systems Indispensable elements of the energy revolution
    Authors:
    Josef Auer & Jan Keil
    An ambitious shift in energy policy, such as that of the German government and which other countries are aiming to emulate, poses great challenges. One Herculean task is integrating those renewable sources of electricity generation which are experiencing dynamic growth but are also subject to relatively strong fluctuations.
    The volatility of the increasing volumes of solar and wind energy needs to be
    evened out and matched to consumption in order for Germany to enjoy a stable power supply and avoid blackouts…
    http://docplayer.net/6599499-State-of-the-art-electricity-storage-systems-indispensable-elements-of-the-energy-revolution.html

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    • #
      yarpos

      Havent got a lot to say except; Solar/Wind > Jamaica > Caribbean > Hurricanes = Costa Rica. If that is the target environment , go right ahead.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      pat:

      Where can we get some of that solar PV at 3¢ US per kWh? That works out around $A43 per MWh, a good deal less than our current wholesale cost, and we are paying $A70-80 a MWh on top of that as a subsidy.

      As for pumped storage it seems to me that Tasmania would be the ideal test site; lots of existing hydro dams and generation, and nearer the Roaring Forties for wind. Set those turbines to pumping water back up to the dams. Doesn’t matter if they are intermittent as the storage will be in the dams. Cheapest way to be renewable, and if it turns out to be too expensive after all then we wouldn’t have wasted too much, and we could cancel the whole mess in Australia.

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  • #
    Ross

    Interesting report on Greenpeace’s business model from the Heartland Institute ( Dr Patrick Moore is one of the authors). I’m still reading but there is good stuff in it.

    https://www.heartland.org/_template-assets/documents/12-3-18%20Analysis%20of%20Greenpeace%20Business%20Model.pdf

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    Jonesy

    Just watched a vid by Dan Britt Pretty cool geological story. Puts the whole concept of climate in a good broad scale. However, he is caught up in the warming ocean rise thing but he caught himself out, I believe.

    In geologic time we are in an interglacial period. However, we are on the downside, slowly heading for cooler climates. Three things have happened to change the global CO2 concentration, the rise of the Himalayas sucked a huge amount of carbon out of the atmosphere, making the climate more susceptible (In extreme response) to the orbital Milankovitch cycles. 8000 years ago, man developed agriculture that resulted in increasing CO2 levels that continue till today, 5000 years ago rice production produced more methane increasing till today and the recent kick is from the fall of hard communism in China…however, our speaker possibly failed to realise there is another outcome to our “Terraforming” causing sealevel rise. He believes the rise of CO2 has halted the effect of the cycle…I say, for the moment, it could also result in a more rapid decay as the cyclic effect gains more strength.

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    • #
      Jonesy

      Just to add, Britt gives a good explanation of the difference between an ice free earth and a snowball earth. The temperature is little warmer than present with CO2 levels past 1700ppm, he hypothesises the more green house gases aid in transferring heat more poleward BUT during the colder climate where solar influence can reduce solar influence by as much as 26% to the lat60 and higher causing glaciation. 65 Million years ago the continents are in different positions, there is no circumpolar current around Antarctica yet and North and South America haven’t joined. Once South America and Australia break away from Antarctica, the current starts, it starts snowing and forms a permanent snowball. Ocean currents drive climate by transferring heat…they also prevent heat from getting to the South Pole. A warmer pole snows more than it melts because more moisture in a warmer atmosphere.

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  • #
    pat

    29 Dec: Townhall: Paul Driessen: Let’s Do Follow The Climate Money!
    Billionaire and potential presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg gave the Sierra Club $110 million in a six-year period to fund its campaign against coal-generated electricity. Chesapeake Energy gave the Club $26 million in three years to promote natural gas and attack coal. Ten wealthy liberal foundations gave another $51 million over eight years to the Club and other environmentalist groups to battle coal.

    Over a 12-year period, the Environmental Protection Agency gave its 15 Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee members $180.8 million in grants – and in exchange received quick rubberstamp approvals of various air quality rules. It paid the American Lung Association $20 million to support its regulations.

    During the Obama years, the EPA, Interior Department and other federal agencies paid environmental pressure groups tens of millions in collusive, secretive sue-and-settle lawsuit payoffs on dozens of issues.

    Then we get to the really big money…READ ON
    https://townhall.com/columnists/pauldriessen/2018/12/29/lets-do-follow-the-climate-money-n2538182

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    pat

    beautiful pic of a frozen waterfall:

    29 Dec: ScrollIndia: Cold wave: Temperature in Delhi dips to 2.6 degrees Celsius, Darjeeling gets snowfall after a decade
    Srinagar recorded a low of minus 7.2 degree Celsius, while temperatures dropped to minus 17.5 degree Celsius in Leh.
    PIC: A frozen waterfall in Jammu and Kashmir’s Baramulla district on Friday

    The temperature in Delhi dropped to 2.6 degrees Celsius on Saturday, recording the season’s lowest temperature so far, IANS reported. The temperature was four degrees below the season’s average…
    Darjeeling in West Bengal and Gangtok in Sikkim on Friday received snowfall for the first time in 10 years, Hindustan Times reported…

    Gangtok, Nathu La, Tshangu Lake and Ravangla in Sikkim also received snowfall. Several tourists visiting Nathu La pass on the India-China border were stranded as roads remained covered with snow.
    The Army has rescued at least 3,000 people stranded at Nathu La pass, NDTV reported on Saturday…
    https://scroll.in/latest/907510/cold-wave-temperature-in-delhi-dips-to-2-6-degrees-celsius-darjeeling-gets-snowfall-after-a-decade

    29 Dec: TimesOfIndia: Weather update: Snow Fall in Himachal, Cold waves continue in north India
    The entire north, central, and east India has come under a strong grip of cold waves, with Shimla recording the season’s lowest temperature at – 0.6 degree Celsius. Also, places like Gujarat, Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh are experiencing cold waves like never before. On the other hand, Manali and Kalpa, the two very beautiful hill stations in Himachal have been covered by fresh snowfall. This seems like an exciting white winter for most of India…

    pic, but no link to the video:

    30 Dec: TimesOfIndia: Snowing in Delhi? No, it’s just frost, says Met
    NEW DELHI: “Delhi has become Shimla… Delhi has become Srinagar,” a man can be heard shouting while scraping something white from the roof of cars in west Delhi’s Paschim Vihar. The video that he is shooting was later widely circulated on WhatsApp on Saturday and appears to show the man clearing snow and ice from the car roofs.
    But it is actually frost, according to B P Yadav, regional head of the Indian Meteorological Department…
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/snowing-in-delhi-no-its-just-frost-says-met/articleshow/67305047.cms

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    pat

    29 Dec: KVOA Tucson: January-March 2019 Temperature Outlook
    by Stephanie Weaver
    Temperatures are expected to be below average overall from the South to the mid-Atlantic from January through March 2019. Temperatures are forecast to be near-average or slightly colder from the Southwest to the central Plains, Midwest and Northeast…
    The last full month of winter is expected to be the harshest in terms of unusually cold weather for a large swath of the Midwest and East.

    Far-below-average temperatures are likely in those regions, with below-average temperatures also reaching into much of the Plains, Mississippi Valley and South. February is normally the coldest month of the year in many of these areas, but the outlook calls for even colder weather than usual…

    “It currently appears as if the El Niño event will not decay significantly heading into spring, which should favor the continuation of cooler-than-normal temperatures across much of the southern and eastern U.S. into at least May,” (Dr. Todd Crawford, chief meteorologist with The Weather Company) said.
    https://kvoa.com/weather/2018/12/29/january-march-2019-temperature-outlook/

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    pat

    SSW? never mind – 2019 is sure to be the hottest evah:

    29 Dec: UK Express: New Year WEATHER: Shock chart warns UK to be RAVAGED by SNOW as BEAST FROM EAST approaches
    A TERRIFYING new Beast from the East headed from Scandinavia could see Britons wake up to cold temperatures, dangerous ice and a barrage of snow following New Year, as charts show the savage arctic system gunning towards the UK
    by Joe Gamp
    Meteorologists have warned of a savage phenomenon known as “Sudden Stratospheric Warning” (SSW) could bring icy blasts and gale force winds to British shores during January.
    SSW refers to a rapid jump in temperature in stratosphere and can be linked to the onset of extreme cold weather during winter months…
    Weather temperatures will remain below average through the start of 2019 with further heavy snowfall likely in February…

    With fears another ‘Beast from the East’ is on its way, bookmakers Coral make it odds on at 4-5 that this winter goes on to be the coldest on record…
    Coral’s Harry Aitkenhead: “It’s odds on that this winter will enter the record books as the coldest we’ve ever seen.”
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/1064702/new-year-weather-forecast-snow-freezing-temperatures-beast-from-east-travel-warnings

    29 Dec: UK Sun: CHILL OUT UK weather – ‘Beast from the East’ to bring snow and 65mph winds before THREE-MONTH deep freeze
    Brits are bracing for a long cold winter after forecasters warned of a 70 per cent chance of crashing temperatures from January to March
    By Gerard du Cann
    The “Beast from the East” will bring snow and high winds to the UK, with a 70 per cent chance of crashing temperatures all the way through March, a Met Office forecaster said…
    And Met Office spokesman Simon Partridge said when a similar three-month forecast was issued at the start of last year, those predictions came starkly true.
    He said: “Last year there was widespread snow across many parts of the UK and temperatures were well below average.
    “There’s a higher chance of seeing colder spells, and given that, as a result, there’s a slightly higher chance of snow across the ..

    Ex-BBC and Met Office forecaster John Hammond of weathertrending said: “The chance of very cold and potentially snowy weather is real and ominous.
    “There is the potential for significant snowfall from January 7, with odds stacked towards cold weather by January 14.
    “There is potential for severe wintry conditions from the [Sudden Stratospheric Warming], with bitter easterlies…
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8082210/uk-weather-forecast-beast-east-snow-winds/

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    • #
      yarpos

      This is a scary forecast for Scotland given what their Institute of Engineers cam out with recently about the state of the Scottish grid due to excessive wind power penetration. It pretty much the worse case scenario if it develops.

      20

  • #
    Another Ian

    Sometimes you can’t help bad luck

    “Government Shutdown’s Latest Victim: a Global Weather Conference”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/12/29/government-shutdowns-latest-victim-a-global-weather-conference/

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  • #
    yarpos

    Different topic. Drug taking and deaths at music festivals

    Just saw a sound bit on our ABC with one of the young and fabulous saying “…..well, the reality is that people are going to take drugs, so we have to support them”

    Do we really? nobody goes out of the way to stop/counsel other risk takers like base jumpers, motorcycle racers, skydivers, rock fishermen, ocean yacht racers etc Why are drugs special and different? let them have at it I reckon.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Don’t get me started!, having a few acquaintances in the hospital system they report that locally a yearly festival and a few Rave parties give them the biggest trouble from people overdosing on recreational drugs, besides the difficulty of treating an uncooperative and unknown poisoned patient they have to juggle others in emergency who have simply had accidents.

      I always ask druggies if anyone forced them to take drugs in the first place (answer is always no) and did they know it was illegal (answer is always yes), I don’t know if addiction or substance abuse is a disease or a personality trait but I do know how damaging they can be to everyone around them and how much time can be wasted trying to help them, it may sound cruel but most of the time its better to cut them loose and focus your energy on those with potential.

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    • #
      beowulf

      It’s like rave party/drug fest pill testing. I know the head of emergency at St Vincents Hospital in Sydney has come out saying it saves lives, but we are dealing with non-standardised chemical concoctions. If you buy 10 pills and have 1 tested why would that mean the other 9 are safe? How do they conduct a full chemical analysis on a card table in a tent in 5 minutes? How will it stop overdoses or the effects of popping an assortment of pills?

      At the Summer Enchanted rave at Adelaide 8,000 people had 50 pills tested (illegally). One girl threw away her pill after learning it contained Ketamine (she should have donated it to Prof Brian Cox whose reputed historical fondness for Big K might account for his views on global warming and that irritating perpetual smirk on his dial). So out of 8,000 only 50 had pills that needed checking? Ya’re jokin’. How many others should have flushed their pills but didn’t? If you were an irresponsible cretin who had just spent $400 on pills would you dump them? ’Course not — you’d give them a whirl and see what happens.

      The SA government refused permission for pill testing at the event and were accused of: “they don’t care about the health of young people”. Personally I think it’s the young people who don’t care.

      Here’s a quote from an actual drug expert:
      “University of Queensland Alcohol and Drug Research and Education Centre director Professor Jake Najman said in 2015, 75 new synthetic drugs came onto the market.

      Their impacts on the human body are largely unknown and potentially risky, however Professor Najman is surprised by the relatively few deaths from them.

      He does not think pill-testing facilities would be able to detect these new substances.

      “The problem we’ve got is that we’ve set up a system which encourages chemists to develop products to escape detection and some of these products are going to be potentially lethal,” he said.”

      Tell me again how pill testing is going to stop deaths of reckless idiots.

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      • #
        beowulf

        That bolding went berserk. It should have bolded pill testing will not be able to detect new substances and we’ve set up a system which encourages products to escape detection.

        20

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        yarpos

        I just have trouble picturing our wonderful youth, many of whom are arriving at the event already primed, queuing up in an orderly manner at some booth for testing, waiting for results and then heeding the advice. Yes , thats it, thats what they came to a music festival for, thats what a risk taker does (ask me how I now)

        The is just BS from the hand wringers that think they have to be seen to be “doing something” however useless and superficial. Still, if it saves just one kiddie.

        00

  • #
    Another Ian

    Hi Jo – For the wind turbine file

    ” Flight Level
    December 29, 2018 at 4:38 pm

    Aircraft and wind turbines share quite a common core. Including weight constraints and power to mass ratios.

    Being airfoils, they are equally subject to very difficult to forsee and manage vibratory behaviors, buffeting, weather.

    All taken into account, maintenance costs are logically closer to those of aviation than public utility machines.

    No wonder the comprehensive cost of their lifespan total energy delivery is sky-high when compared to machinery with other design constraints.”

    And following comments

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/12/29/thruway-authority-sues-maker-of-wind-turbines-that-dont-work/#comment-2571097

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    James Murphy

    I’m looking forward to seeing what New Horizons will see when it flies past object 2014 MU69 (Ultima Thule) on New Years day. What self respecting geologist wouldn’t want to see pictures of rocks at least as old as the solar system…?!

    Of course, I’d rather have samples, and some thin-sections, but beggars can’t be choosers…

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    PeterS

    The major influential German news weekly, Der Spiegel, has suspended two of its senior editors following the scandal involving a reporter Claas Relotius admitted faking stories for years. Der Spiegel Suspends Two Senior Editors Amid Investigation Into Fake News

    Nice! If only we saw this happening in our ABC but of course it would require the board to be honest. Fat chance. In my mind there must be legal ways to force the ABC to comply with its charter or else have those responsible charged and sent to court.

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      ABC have rejigged their in house self promo add and words like integrity, honesty , fairness etc even balanced are used , it’s about time someone took them to task over their self gratifying dishonest slap on the back .

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    robert rosicka

    Big storm just hit with about 10mm plus heavy driving rain but very little wind , Bom as usual are reading the tea leaves from a coffee cup .

    http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDV21033.shtml

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    • #
      Annie

      Gosh, our thunder was this morning and we had only 3.2mm. The wind is now here and howling round the house and up the flue.

      20

      • #
        robert rosicka

        BOM forecast for today has been almost as inaccurate as yesterday’s, although they did give rain a 50 / 50 chance of 1 – 5mm , we have had 8mm so far and it’s raining again now .
        The front yard is usually a dust bowl this time of year but at the moment it looks like a golf course .

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  • #
    Hanrahan

    With the new year bearing down upon us like a cyclone, I was taken by a line in a movie i’m watching The Fabulous Baker Boys. Frank Baker says to his singer “You know I’ve never kissed my wife to welcome in the new year. I’m always playing music”.

    It’s not only pilots, cops etc working, it’s strugglers too.

    Happy new year to all, 2019 promises to be a doozy. it will be a year of interesting times, as the Chinese curse promises.

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  • #
    sophocles

    Solar Wind and Tropical Cyclones are no longer statistically linked. The link has been established:

    P Prikryl, L Nikitima, V Rinsin: Rapid intensification of tropical cyclones in the context of the solar-wind-magnetosphere-ionsphere-atmosphere coupling. Journal of Atmospheric and Solar Terrestrial Physics. 2018.

    I have another Hammer and this one is a biggie.

    The Abstract makes interesting reading. The paper is In Press so it will be part of the literature very shortly.
    I’ve been trying to find a pre-press version … sigh. To no avail.

    1. Rapid intensification of tropical storms tends to follow arrivals of high-speed solar wind.
    2. Solar wind-magnetosphere-ionosphere-atmosphere coupling generates gravity waves.
    3. Atmospheric gravity waves launched from high latitudes can reach tropical cyclones.
    4. Atmospheric gravity waves can trigger moist instabilities leading to convective bursts.
    5. Convective bursts have been linked to rapid intensification of tropical cyclones.

    I’ve watched a cyclone trying to start but failing after every try last summer. I saw Cat-1 and even Cat-2 cyclones form without flares and CMEs to bump start them but category steps with flares and CMEs I had seen were common-place.
    It’s the bit about the gravity waves which I was missing. I’m off to do some more study now. I need it. The 4th point could be of a some consequence for torrential downpours and flooding. You could call them “moist instabilities,” but I may be reading too much into this …

    I’m happy about the link being established with the auroras (making gravity waves), I had some difficulty seeing the terrawatts of aurora power being wasted creating just a pretty display. Nothing is totally frivolous!

    I love real science.

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    RicDre

    A couple of weeks ago, several people over at WUWT noticed that the AR3 report had disappeared from the IPCC web site. AR3 is the report that contained the statement “The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future exact climate states is not possible.” I checked yesterday and the AR3 report is once again available on the IPCC web site. A person with a suspicious mind might think that the IPCC got sick of having that quote thrown back at them and tried to quietly make the report disappear but were forced to re-post the report when people noticed it was gone. Luckily for me, I don’t have a suspicious mind so I am sure it was just an inadvertent occurrence which they have now fixed.

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    • #
      RicDre

      I just noticed something strange about the re-posted AR3 report; it appears that the IPCC did a stealth edit to the original quote changing “The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible.” to “The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future EXACT climate states is not possible.” Its a good thing I don’t have a suspicious mind or I might attribute this change to nefarious intentions.

      100

  • #
    • #
      PeterS

      Gives us a warm fuzzy feeling doesn’t it? Imagine how much warmer that feelign will become when Shorten becomes PM thanks to the incompetence buffoonery of the LNP.

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  • #
    Dennis

    Our electricity requirements can be achieved without coal and gas, according the an ANU study.

    Comments please;

    http://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/anu-finds-22000-potential-pumped-hydro-sites-in-australia

    10

    • #
      Robber

      From the article: “A cost model of pumped hydro is also under development and will be made publicly available.”
      “Australia needs only a tiny fraction of these sites for pumped hydro storage – about 450 GWh of storage – to support a 100 per cent renewable electricity system,” said Professor Blakers from the ANU Research School of Engineering.
      450 Gwh of storage – the AEMO grid meets average demand of 22 GW, so 450 GWh means that if the dams were all full and that hydro had 2 GW of turbines, it could supply 10% of the grid for about a week. “Co-researcher Dr Matthew Stocks said that off-river pumped hydro storage typically delivered maximum power for five to 25 hours, depending on the size of the reservoirs.”
      Snowy2 reportedly will deliver 2 GW for almost a week, with storage of 330 GWh for an estimated cost of $4 billion.

      LIke all good press releases ANU provides a newsworthy headline, but little in the way of detail. However I did find some preliminary cost estimates here.
      The example assumes an 850 Megalitre dam with a 580 metre drop could deliver 215 MW for 5 hours so just over 1 GWh (to extend the solar day) for a capital cost of $247 million with a levelised cost of $55/MWhr.
      Extrapolating those numbers, 450 Gwh would cost about $100 billion. Cost doesn’t stackup versus Snowy2 – so maybe something wrong with their preliminary numbers, or my calculations.

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      • #
        Graeme#4

        Whenever anybody brings up pumped hydro in The Oz, I challenge them to name one site, just one, where pumped hydro has been a success. So far no takers. I’m not including hydro power station backup storages, such as Niagara where the falls are mostly shut down at night and diverted into power station storage lakes. In any case, the greens won’t allow us to dam our rivers to irrigate our farmlands, so I doubt they would ever allow the huge country-flooding dams required for pumped hydro.

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    • #
      PeterS

      I often wondered if we could rely 100% on cheap hydro-electricity if we had many more traditional dams, which would also supply water for irrigation and other uses. It would be like turbo charging and super charging our economy at the same time. Alas it would meet much resistance from the Greenies even if just one frog was lost in the process. As I noted before there are a number of ways to provide cheap and reliable power. Instead we are placing more emphasis on using the most expensive and unreliable way thanks to both major parties. When our nation collapses into a heap and we beg China to assist we will then have all the nuclear, coal and hydro power stations at our disposal. Too bad we loose our freedom in the process. As far as I’m concerned our politicians are as close to being traitors without actually breaking any law.

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      • #
        RicDre

        “Alas it would meet much resistance from the Greenies even if just one frog was lost in the process”

        Does the Australian Green part also object to Pumped Hydro as it is bound to displace some wildlife since you are pumping water to a place where it doesn’t naturally collect?

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        Graeme#4

        Should have looked at your comment and Ric’s first Peter. Agree with you both. When you calculate the huge water areas required to support pumped hydro, because we are basically a flat country so the water must cover a lot of ground, I can’t see the greens ever approving these concepts. And yet we have rivers up north that have huge flows in the wet season, straight out to sea.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Comment to both RicDre and Graeme#4: the Greenies would be against hydro because they place animals above humans, and we dare not put animals at risk by creating dams. However, when natural floods occur it’s fine as Gaia is their god who is above all. Besides one of their urban policies is:

        Investment in large-scale water infrastructure such as dams should occur only after all lower cost, lower economic risk and lower environmental impact options such as water efficiency, conservation and local recycling have been fully developed;

        In other words; never since we will never fully develop those other requirements.

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        • #
          Greebo

          It wasn’t animals that stopped the Gordon below Franklin, it was the Huon pine. Sure, they ere old, but…. People are weird. I have a cutlery set. The knives have handles made from ivory. I have had guests that refuse to touch them. “Eeyuck! Blood on my hands!”. Pointing out that the elephant(s) that provided the ivory has(ve) been dead for over 150 years, and may have died from natural causes, makes no difference. I wonder if they’d think the same way if they inherited a piano built by by German piano builder Heinrich Engelhard Steinweg. Probably not, I think. $$$$ wins every time.

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          • #
            Annie

            Weird. We have the odd piece dating from at least pre WW2. I think it is an insult to the animal concerned to pretend to be sensitive about it…too long gone and the ivory pieces are works of art. It is another case now; don’t encourage any new producers by buying their stuff and thereby encourage poachers, with all the cruelty entailed.
            I think it was daft of Prince William to be precious about ivory that had long existed, produced before any ban.

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            • #
              Greebo

              It is weird, Annie. The idea of killing an elephant for it’s teeth, a rhinoceros for it’s horn is as obscene as killing a tiger for it’s penis.. However, the elephant hunters of the Victorian age were encouraged, as it provided much needed meat for the locals.Times, and opinions, change. But the past does not, no matter how hard people try to make it. It seems the only thing being taught these days is irrationality.

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            sophocles

            To: Greebo @ 47.2.4.1

            If the handles of those knives were made before the end of the nineteenth century, there is a good chance the ivory was from recovered mammoth tusks which were, and in places still are. scattered all over the ground in North Eastern Siberia. The Younger Dryas impactor did that job, and huge quantities were recovered from Siberia up to 1917. There are still huge quantities left and recovery has restarted, some time since 1989. A good storm can wash up more along the shoreline.

            This does not mean that elephant poaching is a recent problem, either. It escalated in the 19th century despite the huge quantities of mammoth ivory being recovered. If you want to find out, there may be ways of identifying it’s source and dating it, but I have no idea if there is nor how it’s done. It is legal to trade in and use mammoth ivory, so there has to be a way or ways to identify it.
            Have a good look for dates on the knives (proofing marks etc) and if they are pre-1900, then you have a good cover story:

            Don’t be silly, it’s fossil ivory from woolly mammoths in NE Siberia. It was grown over twelve thousand years ago and humans had nothing to do with it; it wuz a big rock from the sky wot dun it. Not quite as big as the one which got the dinosaurs but big enough.”

            The bolide which broke through the Hiawatha Glacier up in North Western Greenland is a good candidate for the mammoth extinction event but it can’t (yet) be dated accurately enough. It’s thought to be anywhere from 100,000 YA to 10,000 YA.

            Good luck.

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      • #
        Greebo

        China will probably build a nuke on the GBR.

        Greenie self immolation. Not necessarily a bad thing.

        00

    • #
      Graeme#4

      I’m not that good at posting links, but there is a good study – Google “Pump Up The Storage” by T Murphy, 15 November 2011. Interesting discussion, including calculations and some examples.
      A quote from “Alasdair” in WUWT 23 July: “The Dinorwic Pumped storage facility in Wales is a case in point. Very impressive, cost a bomb, stores about 9 GWh and can supply 1.5 MW for some 7 hours and that’s it – lights out. But you need a convenient mountain and a couple of lakes if you want to build any more. Runs at about 75% efficiency.”

      50

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        Graeme#4

        May I also suggest a look at Viv Forbers’ article “The Green Elephant In The Snowy Mountains” in PickeringPost, 31 August.

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      Slithers

      The article makes interesting reading. The research cost us half a million. The report only describes the places where the upper water storage could be created!!!!
      There is no hint of construction cost or power grid connection.
      The placement for the bottom storage sites would be done after the selected sites were proposed. Water pipes with bends in them suffer considerable loss so straight pipes only please. Any suitable wetland will do. Dwellings in the way? No problem compulsory purchase will cover that.The larger the height difference the better. Watch out Frogs!

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      • #
        AndyG55

        An absolutely best place for a HUGE pumped hydro storage, would be Welcome Reef or Bungonia Gorge.

        And the plans have already been done for Welcome Reef.. ;-)

        Lake George for all the wind turbines.

        Canberrans would LUV it !!

        What could go wrong ;-)

        10

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      yarpos

      How long has it been since a dam has been built in Australia? are they suddenly OK now?

      10

  • #
    Dennis

    Last night television news weather started with “scorching heat” and continued to reveal mostly under 30C and a few inland areas up to about 40C.

    Mostly normal summer temperatures.

    BoM media department deceptive releases to media?

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    • #
      PeterS

      Give it time. If we do indeed enter a mini ice-age they will be proclaiming temperatures above 25 C as heat waves.

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      el gordo

      I’ve glimpsed the entrails and Sydney’s future is hellish.

      ‘Although not yet official until tomorrow’s temperature observations are included, there is little chance that 2018 will move ranking, given the forecast minimum and maximum temperature.

      ‘This means that six out of the top 10 hottest years on record in Sydney have occurred in the last decade.’

      weatherzone

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    David Maddison

    For those interested in running some numbers, the 2018 report for the Hepburn Wind subsidy farm is available at

    https://www.hepburnwind.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/HW-Annual-Report-2018_Download.pdf

    Hepburn Wind is a two windmill community owned subsidy farm in Victoriastan.

    For FY2018 they earned $917,358 in electricity sales and $834,475 in renewable energy certificate sales.

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    • #
      Graeme#4

      Hepburn is always an interesting point of reference re the viability or lack therefof for wind farms. Thanks David.

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      • #
        David Maddison

        Thanks Graeme#4. It’s obvious that the core business of wind subsidy farms is harvesting renewable energy certificates. Random (useless) generation of electricity is just a by-product which they can also sell.

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        David Maddison

        Some other interesting numbers are:

        Market value per MWh:

        Electricity generated $81.70
        Certificates $82.67
        Overall value $165.49

        So they are basically earning $165.49 per MWh from the operation of the subsidy farm that only does two things: 1) Generate useless randomly varying electricity which has to be backed up with proper coal plant and 2) generates renewable energy certificates out of nothing except for being a wind subsidy enterprise.

        Can someone please explain again why Australia has some of the most expensive electricity in the world while being one of the most energy rich countries?

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          Graeme#4

          Will be interesting to compare this year’s results to last year, which were:
          Nameplate Rating: 4.1 MW
          Actual Output: 1.2 MW
          Capacity Factor: 29%
          Electricity Sales: $618,000
          Subsidies (LCGs) sales income: $625,000
          Operating Costs: $518,000”
          Profit after Tax: $634,000
          Tax credit: $235,000

          40

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    David Maddison

    There is something wrong. Replies are being published as new posts, not in the correct heirarchy.

    40

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      sophocles

      To: David Maddison @ #50.
      Yes. It’s a feature of wordpress once comments etc go over about 25 or so. They are treated as random objects. Some may may miraculously end up in the right place. Some won’t. Hence my title to this one:

      It’s a reply to David Maddison’s comment #50.

      ROM and I both started this earlier this year. I don’t bother much up to about comment #20, but then start doing it.
      My observations are that it seems to occur more when two or more people upload a comment at the same time. If you stumble over this one at a higher number than 50.1, you’ll see what I mean.

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    David Maddison

    The posts are getting published in the wrong time order and wrong heirarchy!

    20

  • #
    pat

    FakeNewsNBC:

    30 Dec: Newsbusters: (NBC’s) Chuck Todd Bans ‘Climate Deniers’ from Climate Change Special
    By Mark Finkelstein
    The Closing of the American Mind was Allan Bloom’s groundbreaking critique of “absolute understanding” in academia and the way that it undermines critical thinking…
    Chuck Todd gave a stunning example of the phenomenon this morning in his introduction of a Meet the Press special edition on climate change. Todd quite literally announced that dissent would not be tolerated. Here was Todd:

    “Just as important as what we are going to do this hour is what we’re not going to do. We’re not going to debate climate change, the existence of it. The Earth is getting hotter, and human activity is a major cause. Period. We’re not going to give time to climate deniers. The science is settled, even if political opinion is not.”…READ ON
    https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/mark-finkelstein/2018/12/30/chuck-todd-bans-climate-deniers-climate-change-special

    TWEET: Meet The Press:
    FULL INTERVIEW: @MikeBloomberg joins Chuck in an exclusive interview to discuss his work in combating climate change and whether he will run for president in 2020. #MTP
    30 Dec 2018
    reply: Klein Investigation: Was like watching a horrible infomercial. No really
    https://twitter.com/MeetThePress/status/1079422651423252481

    then check the Meet The Press main Twitter page – dozens of ridiculous tweets by Meet The Press on the so-called CAGW segment. see who else was on board, e.g. Kate Marvel.

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      pat

      gloBULL warming “Meet The Press” is up against some stiff competition!

      30 Dec: CBS Local: Rose Parade Spectators To Brave Bone-Chilling Temperatures
      PASADENA (CBSLA) — Rose Parade spectators are expected to brave bone-chilling temperatures.
      Markina Brown, a meteorologist for CBS Los Angeles, reports that a cooler airmass and light winds will stick around into New Year’s Eve…
      Freeze warnings and frost advisories were issued for parts of Southern California but were expected to expire…

      Despite the cold, bonfires are not permitted along the parade route, and small, professionally manufactured barbecues are permitted so long as they are elevated at least 1 foot off the ground and positioned 25 feet from buildings and other combustibles…
      https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/12/30/rose-parade-cold-temperatures

      PHOTOS: Snow, freezing temperatures around Arizona
      ABC15 Arizona-28 Dec 2018

      ALERT DAY: Freezing rain and snow possible on New Year’s Eve
      Channel3000.com – WISC-TV3 Wisconsin – 7 hours ago

      Snow and freezing fog on the way as temperatures set to drop in January
      Metro UK – 30 Dec 2018
      Some are even predicting a new ‘Beast from the East’ but the Met Office has said it’s too early to know anything for certain.
      That weather system disrupted the UK with heavy snow and freezing temperatures so we’re hoping it does not come back anytime soon…

      30 Dec: OttawaMatters: Environment Canada forecasts snow, freezing rain for New Years Eve
      Environment Canada has issued a special weather statement forecasting snow and possibly freezing rain for central and eastern Ontario Monday evening.
      Ottawa may see some messy weather on New Years Eve…

      Snow and freezing rain expected to kick off New Year in Montreal
      Daily Hive-5 hours ago

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    el gordo

    Nick Cater gives aunty a spray.

    ‘The national broadcaster is able to spout its left-leaning dogma, ignoring the populace, because no one can cancel their subscription.’ Oz

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      AndyG55

      All ABC channels are on “skip” mode in channel selection.

      Sure I have to pay my over-priced contribution to their massive executive salaries, but at least they cannot intrude on my local space.

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    el gordo

    We are already aware that wind farms are a health hazard, but to make matters worse …

    https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/wind/wind-farms-could-cause-surface-warming/

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    pat

    Happy New Year, David Rose:

    PICS/VIDEOS: 30 Dec: Daily Mail: Why all you’ve been told about these polar bears could be WRONG: Animals driven to the edge of their natural habitat by shrinking ice have become one of the defining images of climate change, but Inuits who know the predators have a very different story
    •Aaron Gibbons, 31, was mauled to death by a polar bear earlier this year
    •Inuit leaders want to be allowed to increase the amount of bears they kill
    •Climate change activists say bears are in decline, due to global warming
    •But locals say polar bears are adapting and are perfectly able to breed
    By David Rose In Hudson Bay, Canada
    Scared and exasperated by the threat the bears pose, some Inuit leaders are voicing a demand which, if granted, may trigger a global furore akin to Japan’s decision to resume commercial whaling.
    They want to be allowed to increase their permitted polar bear hunting quota to reduce numbers…READ ALL
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6539067/Why-youve-told-polar-bears-WRONG-Inuits-different-story.html

    30 Dec: UK Sun: ‘THEY’RE THRIVING’ Polar bears AREN’T being wiped out by shrinking ice and climate change, Inuits claim
    Arctic locals claim the population has increased by 400 per cent
    By Jacob Dirnhuber
    Local William Tiktaq added: “When I was a kid, I didn’t worry about bears. Now you have to keep your eyes open and your ears clean.
    “I wish the scientists from down south who say they’re dying out would come and spend a year, or even five years, and they would know about this increase.
    “If we had scientists living here, they would have a different perspective.”…

    Professor Andrew Derocher of the University of Alberta blated: “You can’t equate seeing more bears with there being more bears”.
    He added that the increase was down to bears spending more time near humans.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8086321/inuit-polar-bears-wiped-out-climate-change/

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    • #
      pat

      ABC at it again:

      31 Dec: ABC: Koala drinks from woman’s water bottle during Victorian heatwave
      by ABC/Reuters
      A thirsty koala was given a drink from a kind passer-by during the heatwave which baked Victoria’s north-west.
      With the temperature sitting at 44 degrees Celsius, Chantelle Lowrie noticed the koala by the side of the road on the banks of the Murray River, north of Strathmerton.
      “My first thought was that the poor little fella needs a drink,” Ms Lowrie said

      PIC: Photo:This image of firefighter David Tree and Sam the koala captured hearts around the world. (Reuters)
      The footage is reminiscent of the famous footage of a firefighter giving water to a koala, who was dubbed Sam and became the global face of devastating bushfires in Victoria a decade ago…

      Another koala was captured on video drinking from a water bottle in the Adelaide Hills after bushfires in the Adelaide Hills in 2015.
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-31/koala-drinks-from-womans-bottle-during-victorian-heatwave/10674892

      A thirsty koala drinks from a cyclist’s water bottle by Audrey Bourget
      SBS – 6 March 2016
      It’s not easy to be a little furry beast when the mercury stays above 30 degrees Celsius for several days. Happily, koalas can trust Good Samaritans to help them quench their thirst.
      Cyclist Nick Lothian encountered a cute scene a few days ago in Adelaide, South Australia. An American couple was helping a koala to drink from a water bottle…
      Nick said he saw koalas in the area before, but a koala drinking from a water bottle is definitely a first…
      It’s not the first time that a koala has stopped bystanders to drink water. According to the Department of Environment, it’s a technique that certain animals develop to survive extreme weather…
      In 2013, another South Australian cyclist published a video where he was giving water to a koala.

      2011: Youtube: Koala drinking from water bottle and his mating call, in Adelaide, South Australia
      We spotted this Koala in our front garden and my husband was inspired to try giving it some water, after seeing previous videos posted…

      2009: Youtube: Koala Drinks 3 Bottles of Water – Vic Bushfire (Australia 7th Feb 2009)

      15 Mar 2017: Reuters: Australia’s parched koalas seek out new water sources
      GUNNEDAH, Australia (Reuters) – Koalas are standing on their hind legs for more than 10 minutes at a time to gulp water at drinking stations in Australia as rising temperatures and rainfall disruption drive the animals to search for new sources of moisture, scientists say.
      The desperation to slake their thirst is driving a change in the habits of the tree-dwelling species, with animals ready to run the risk of attack from predators on the ground in their scramble for water…

      ***“What we found in cooler months was that koalas used the water stations extensively and that the use of the water stations was related to rainfall,” (Valentina Mella, University of Sydney’s School of Life and Environmental Sciences) added.
      The koalas were drinking water for an average of more than 10 minutes even during the winter month of August last year, Mella found…
      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-koalas-idUSKBN16M03V

      20

      • #
        AndyG55

        “Koalas are standing on their hind legs for more than 10 minutes at a time to gulp water at drinking stations “

        Then bl**dy well provide LOWER drinking stations !

        Sorry, I just feel like clipping these clots behind the ears.

        At least our local council now provides dog drinking bowls attached to human drinking stands.

        62

      • #
        AndyG55

        ps, I used to live “out bush”.

        Koalas drinking from horse and cow troughs.. nothing unusual.

        Even found one playing in the kid’s plastic pool, once. !!

        ITS NOTHING UNUSUAL !!!

        52

        • #
          Another Ian

          Andy

          I’ve got photos like that.

          As an old bloke around here said “They say that koalas don’t drink so it is funny that the dead ones are always around the water that has just dried up”

          30

          • #
            AndyG55

            I was quite humourous when my then 4 year old daughter came inside and said…

            “Dad, there’s a Koala in my pool!”

            I said, “What’s it doing?”

            Daughter answered.. “just sitting there…. Its not deep enough for swimming, you know that !”

            A memorable moment. :-)

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        • #
          Greebo

          Yes. But after the pic of a CFA firefighter giving a koala a drink from his bottle in 2009 koala drinking is a major social media event.

          20

      • #
        David Maddison

        Why do the Greentards find it so strange that a koala would drink from an available water source?

        Anyway, in the USA a black bear drank too much beer and passed out.

        https://www.wideopenspaces.com/black-bear-goes-bender-drinks-much-beer-passes-lawn/

        20

    • #
      Another Ian

      Pat

      Beware FIFO science

      “Flit In, Flit Out”

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    More of my questions as to why (Man made) Global Warming is always a problem, let alone real and man made.

    Most of the world’s cities are new, especially as the world population heads for 5x the number in 1900.
    We can move cities if we need to do so. Many were built or rebuilt after WW2. Often like Warsaw, from nothing.
    Then if seas rise, we can prevent damage. We can build sea walls, although that is Climate Cheating.
    After all the Nederlands (Low Lands) are below sea level
    and great places to live. London has a 7 metre daily change in tide. Who even knows that? Surely a few cm hardly matters.

    What you never read is why a temperature rise is a good thing for billions of people, which it is for an overpopulated planet. 60% of humans live well below 0C for half the year, often 9 months. Many countries only manage a single crop a year. Then this year the Bangladesh government was handing out free blankets for hundreds of thousands of people in the tropics. You would think we would be cheering the end of the ice age, not wanting it back.

    We do not read articles on why a CO2 increase is a very good thing. As water and CO2 are the only molecules involved in photosynthesis, the basis of all life, it is a great thing. The boom in all crops is largely being passed unnoticed and uncommented.

    So why is even a tiny temperature increase automatically bad for everything and how is this even likely? Surely there are some good aspects, but you never read them.

    Where is the temperature/sea rise/famine/extinction Armegeddon we were promised within a decade three times now? We are into our fourth decade of ‘no time to lose.’

    Living in Melbourne, Australia in mid summer, I am told that we are suffering from an horrendous heat wave. Last night I was freezing. The disconnect between reality and the media reporting is becoming absurd.

    When they are relaxing at the beach why don’t James Hansen, Al Gore, Tim Flannery, Michael Mann, even Prince Charles and the Pope question the infallibility of Hansen 1988? Do they really believe the world is coming to an end? I doubt it.

    So for people who believe passionately in man made, rapid, tipping point Armageddon, ten years to go global warming Climate Change as predicted absolutely by Their Science, as we enter our 31st year of this, you are obviously completely wrong.

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    • #
      Greebo

      Where is the temperature/sea rise/famine/extinction Armegeddon we were promised within a decade three times now? We are into our fourth decade of ‘no time to lose.’

      And our sixth since Time proclaimed we were all going to freeze, which may be more prophetic than they thought.

      Living in Melbourne, Australia in mid summer, I am told that we are suffering from an horrendous heat wave. Last night I was freezing. The disconnect between reality and the media reporting is becoming absurd.

      Yesterday in the Dandenongs I awoke to a “hills fog”, and very cool conditions. Today it’s like a very pleasant Spring day. New Year’s Eve. Now, it’s just weather, we all know that, but I am 65, and I can easily recall MUCH hotter NYEs. In the 70s I was rostered to stay on duty, and found myself fighting fires in the Holdsworthy Military District. “I wonder where the unexploded ordinance is” was a bit of a constant. It was HOT.

      Australia, with it’s incredible variables, is absolutely the LAST place to experiment dabble eff around with energy nonsense to appease Gaia. Nothing can be proven here. I guess we were chosen for our low population, our widespread community and our political apathy.

      Well, Brussels meets most of those criteria, and has far fewer people to inconvenience. How about we try it there?

      20

      • #
        Greebo

        Darn, I forgot the quote thing again. Try it like this:

        Where is the temperature/sea rise/famine/extinction Armegeddon we were promised within a decade three times now? We are into our fourth decade of ‘no time to lose.’

        And our sixth since Time proclaimed we were all going to freeze, which may be more prophetic than they thought.

        Living in Melbourne, Australia in mid summer, I am told that we are suffering from an horrendous heat wave. Last night I was freezing. The disconnect between reality and the media reporting is becoming absurd.

        Yesterday in the Dandenongs I awoke to a “hills fog”, and very cool conditions. Today it’s like a very pleasant Spring day. New Year’s Eve. Now, it’s just weather, we all know that, but I am 65, and I can easily recall MUCH hotter NYEs. In the 70s I was rostered to stay on duty, and found myself fighting fires in the Holdsworthy Military District. “I wonder where the unexploded ordinance is” was a bit of a constant. It was HOT.

        Australia, with it’s incredible variables, is absolutely the LAST place to experiment dabble eff around with energy nonsense to appease Gaia. Nothing can be proven here. I guess we were chosen for our low population, our widespread community and our political apathy.

        Well, Brussels meets most of those criteria, and has far fewer people to inconvenience. How about we try it there?

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    • #
      sophocles

      To: TdeF @ #56.

      Why is there such a big fuss about “rising sea levels?”
      Yes, we can build sea walls. But I like this approach, it has style: The Raising of Chicago. Done with American flair. Build their city somewhere else? No. Raise it. So they did.

      This is one my favourite Wiki articles :-)

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  • #
    el gordo

    This northern hemisphere winter is difficult to predict with AO and NAO both flatlining, but a return to 2010-11 has been mooted.

    https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/vis/a010000/a010800/a010850/Europe.0362.jpg

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  • #
    Greg in NZ

    One-below-zero (-1˚C) and snowing in Shanghai – by the sea on the central east coast of China – yesterday:

    https://www.shine.cn/news/metro/1812307451/

    Further north, Harbin’s annual ice sculpture festival cracking ahead as it always has every frigid winter: “The city of ice is constructed by around 10,000 laborers working day and night in temperatures as low as minus 35 degrees Fahrenheit (-37 Celsius).” Thankfully it’s a scorching -22˚C today. Note to red thumb climate hysterics: with a whopping extra 2 degrees of ‘dangerous warmth’, Harbin would be sweltering on . . . -20˚C!

    https://www.newsweek.com/harbin-ice-and-snow-festival-ice-sculptures-china-kevin-frayer-1273721

    Happy Twenty-Nineteen one and all, and pray to Gaia-Gaga that massive snow blizzard sliding under Australia stays down there – can’t have it snowing on the 1st of Jan, now can we… s’posed to be ‘an unusually hot and dry summer’ according to ex-spurts, right?

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    • #
      pat

      Greg in NZ -

      don’t tell the Guardian/Observer:

      30 Dec: Guardian/Observer: Editorial: The Observer’s blueprint for a better Britain in 2019
      Five ideas within the grasp of any government to make the country a better, fairer place.
      Slowing global warming
      Climate change poses an increasingly existential threat to mankind and the time available to stave off catastrophic levels of warming is running out. The government must do more to advocate for global net-zero carbon emissions by 2050, and set out a plan for the UK to produce net-zero carbon emissions before 2050, including bringing forwards the ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars to 2030…
      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/30/observer-blueprint-for-a-better-britain-in-2019

      40

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        “Five ideas within the grasp of any government to make the country a better, more profitable for banks / corporates / NGOs and fairer darker, colder, more expensive for locals place.”

        Tonight I listened, via radio, to a simulcast live TV Horror Movie 6 o’clock news broadcast, as I do, sporadically, to check-up on what pap they’re smearing over their ever-loyal, ever-believing audience d’ gullible, when the words “hot… sizzling… sweltering… hot [again!]” were used to describe the maximum temp for various towns/cities around Aotearoa New Zealand today. And that f a a a ! we gonna die, burn in Hell, shuda thorta the kids, kiss ya sheep goodbye! temperature was… wait for it… again… 26 degrees Celsius. Cheeses wept!

        However, the exasperating hyperbole was saved for your fine West Island, where Alice Springs’ 45˚ was breathlessly dramatised, drawn-out for extra-burny effect. Not a mention of the mid-20s most coastal cities were chilling on, nor of Bullers Gorge in Tasmania’s Central Plateau which dropped to 4˚C this morning: nah, not a fair and balanced squeak. They’re scaring the children AND the adults mindless meh, too late.

        40

  • #
    pat

    30 Dec: Daily Caller: Bill Gates Reminds People Solar And Wind Alone Won’t Solve Climate Change
    by Jason Hopkins
    Bill Gates, writing in a year-end blog post, shot down the idea that renewable energy alone can sufficiently reduce carbon emissions and address the world’s fight against climate change.
    “Some people think we have all the tools we need, and that driving down the cost of renewables like solar and wind solves the problem,” the business magnate wrote Saturday in Gates Notes, his personal blog site. “But solar and wind are intermittent sources of energy, and we are unlikely to have super-cheap batteries anytime soon that would allow us to store sufficient energy for when the sun isn’t shining or the wind isn’t blowing.”…
    “Next year I will speak out more about how the U.S. needs to regain its leading role in nuclear power research,” he wrote. “Nuclear is ideal for dealing with climate change, because it is the only carbon-free, scalable energy source that’s available 24 hours a day.”…

    Gates is the founder of TerraPower, a nuclear reactor design company. TerraPower is working on an advanced nuclear reactor that would help innovate industry. The company was planning to build a demonstration reactor in China, but the Trump administration’s crackdown on Chinese attempts to use U.S. civilian nuclear technology for military purposes made TerraPower’s plans unlikely. Gates hopes he can launch a pilot project in the U.S. instead.

    TerraPower’s goals, however, could lead the nuclear industry to develop advanced, smaller scale technology on a commercial level. Such an endeavor could be a game-changer for the U.S. nuclear fleet — which has been beleaguered in recent years as it competes with cheap natural gas and subsidy-backed renewable energy. Nuclear plants across the country are closing down, leading environmentalists to worry about a rise in greenhouse gas emissions and industry professionals concerned over grid reliability.

    “Unfortunately, America is no longer the global leader on nuclear energy that it was 50 years ago. To regain this position, it will need to commit new funding, update regulations, and show investors that it’s serious,” Gates continued in his blog…
    The billionaire philanthropist told Axios in November the people who believe solar and wind are the only solutions to fighting climate change are just as bad as the people who deny progress altogether.
    https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/30/bill-gates-renewable-energy/

    30 Dec: UK Times: Brave new world
    From money-saving smart meters to life-saving ideas about transport, data is revolutionising the world by helping us to better ***predict the future. Tech evangelist Dave Coplin explains why this is just the beginning…
    (Promoted content: Smart Energy GB is the government backed organisation tasked with informing Great Britain about the benefits of the smart meter rollout)
    (Dave Coplin is founder of The Envisioners and wrote The Rise of the Humans)

    After spending 25 years working for the world’s leading tech companies, including Microsoft, and having specialised in artificial intelligence, I firmly believe that the more information we have, the more efficient we can be, individually and as a society.
    For my family, having the in-home display has made our energy use visible as never before, and it has changed our behaviour. Now that I can see what’s going on – as with a speedometer in a car – I can make adjustments, taking action to cut
    our usage if I think it’s too high…

    At present, if there’s a spike in use, we often rely on fossil fuel power plants to meet it. But if, for instance, the data suggests that in two weeks’ time there’s going to be a surge in energy demand, providers could take action to meet it in a more sustainable way. This would involve storing up renewable energy in order to meet the expected peak. In this way, data from smart meters helps providers to accurately predict how much energy is needed so less is wasted by overproduction…READ ALL
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/static/smart-meters-energy-billing-business-savings/

    30

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Bill Gates

      Pumps for Nuclear Energy as the source of power for the future.

      Well done Bill!

      Now what about Elon Musk?

      40

  • #
    el gordo

    Global warming causes less severe tornados in the US.

    https://www.thegwpf.com/content/uploads/2018/12/Screen-Shot-2018-12-28-at-09.43.08-768×422.png

    This fits in with Hubert Lamb’s hypothesis that global cooling should produce more severe tornados in the mid west.

    20

    • #
      yarpos

      Oddly the MSM isnt rushing to blame Trump for less tornadoes, like the did for bushfires in California or almost having hurricanes.

      00

  • #
    pat

    29 Dec: Breitbart: Daily Mail Retracts Climate Scare Article for Data ‘Errors’
    by Thomas D. Williams Ph.D
    The Daily Mail published its retraction (LINK) on Saturday, saying it had removed a December 10th article with the headline ‘Is global warming WORSE than we thought?’ because the climate change study on which it was based was found to have “errors in the data”.
    RETRACTION…

    Even prior to the Mail’s publication of the first climate change piece, however, independent climate scientist Nicholas Lewis had examined the Nature study and found that Resplandy and her team had significantly “miscalculated” the trend in ocean warming and published (LINK) a paper laying out the errors in the original report.
    The alert folks at the Global Warming Policy Foundation (GWPF) drew attention (LINK) to Lewis’s paper as well as all the fawning press coverage that had been heaped upon the erroneous study…

    The author of the disavowed Mail article, Victoria Bell, published a similar, follow-up essay (LINK) on December 19th, titled ‘Global warming is WORSE than we thought’, which is still on the Mail website.
    In her second article, Ms Bell asserts that claims that there was a pause in global climate change between the years 1995 and 2013 have been “disproved by experts.”
    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/12/29/daily-mail-retracts-climate-scare-article-for-data-errors/

    above links to the second Victoria Bell piece. how pathetic:

    19 Dec: Daily Mail: Victoria Bell: Global warming is WORSE than we thought because the famous ‘pause’ between 1995 and 2013 never happened, claim experts
    One of the studies claims that climate researchers were put ‘under pressure’ from political leaders and the climate change deniers who held the evidence that humans are not the cause of global warming…

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  • #
    el gordo

    Rainfall in Victoria linked to lunar behaviour, Ian Wilson gives BoM a serve.

    https://astroclimatelink.wordpress.com/2018/10/26/bom-is-not-comfortable-with-reality/

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    • #
      el gordo

      Further to that, Ian Wilson throws down the gauntlet in comments at Climate Etc.

      ‘Apparently, the facts presented above are so overwhelming that no one here is prepared to refute them using logic and scientific arguments. The data shows that the normalized autocorrelation of the positive annual rainfall anomalies in Victoria Australia between 1900 and 2013.

      ‘The autocorrelation confirms that there is a periodicity in the years in which the State of Victoria Australia receives excess rainfall that matches the 18.6-year lunar draconic cycle. Why are people ignoring the evidence that is right in front of their eyes? Am I the only one who seems to have taken the red pill?’

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  • #
    pat

    don’t doubt the conditions would be unbearable, but some fudging of temps seems to be going on here. Alice Springs hasn’t hit anywhere close to 50C:
    31 Dec: ABC: Call for air-conditioners in ‘inhumane’ cells after outback heatwave triggers prison riot
    By Rani Hayman and Matt Garrick
    Prisoners forced to live in cells during a scorching Red Centre heatwave should be allowed access to air-conditioning as a human right, a Territory union leader says.
    The call comes two days after prisoners were tear gassed during a riot in Alice Springs Correctional Centre, initially sparked because of plus-40C temperatures baking Central Australia…

    (Erina Early, the branch secretary of United Voice Northern Territory): “With the ***50-degree heat, being overcrowded, basically there’s a huge risk and potential for prisoners to basically kick off.”…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-31/union-calls-for-alice-springs-prison-air-conditioning-after-riot/10675502

    behind paywall:

    Prisoners sprayed with tear gas in riot at Alice Springs prison amid record temperatures
    NT News-29 Dec 2018

    31 Dec: Daily Mail: Maximum security prisoners are sprayed with TEAR GAS after rioting over blistering temperatures – as mercury hits 50C in cells
    by Ben Hill
    An NT Department of the Attorney-General and Justice told Daily Mail Australia the riot was caused by scorching temperatures, which have soared to 50C in parts of central Australia.
    ‘A number of prisoners refused to return to their accommodation cells due to the high temperatures currently being experienced in the region,’ a spokesman said.

    A prison officer told the NT News…’This is what happens when you’ve got 16 prisoners sharing a dorm with no aircon and the temperature hitting ***50C outside for days…

    The NT Department of the Attorney-General and Justice spokesman said the riot was caused by ‘extreme weather conditions’.
    ‘To ensure prisoner comfort in these extreme temperatures, ice and additional fans have been provided in the affected cells and dormitories.’
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6540795/Maximum-security-prisoners-sprayed-TEAR-GAS.html

    27 Dec: ABC: Outback town smashes temperature records with 28 days above 40C in one month
    By Mitch Abram and Matt Garrick
    Forget frying an egg on the footpath, in Tennant Creek you could roast a whole chook in the main square, as the town heads towards its 28th day above 40C this December.
    Records are toppling across Central Australia as the outback region scorches under what the Bureau of Meteorology (BOM) has called “severe to extreme” conditions.
    Tennant, Alice Springs and Yulara are all gearing up to roast in temperatures around six to 10 degrees warmer than average.
    Yulara was expected to next week scald under 46C heat while Alice would tip the thermometer at 44C.

    BOM forecaster Bradley Wood said Tennant Creek’s month in the cauldron “completely smashes their previous record”.
    “Previously the most they’d had in a month was 20 [days] in January 2008,” Mr Wood said.
    Prior to that, the town had sizzled for 16 days of over-40C heat in 1972…

    The remote regions of Lajamanu and Rabbit Flat on the Tanami Track also knocked over temperature records for the month…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-27/bureau-of-meteorology-says-heat-records-broken-in-outback/10670438

    10

    • #
      toorightmate

      It is summer in Australia.
      The southern states experience high temperatures and little rain and the north coastal areas experience the monsoon.
      While all this is happening in our neck of the woods, it is freezing in North America, Europe and Russia. It is even snowing in New Mexico.
      Surprise, surprise.
      IT IS CALLED WEATHER.
      Any changes to climate will NOT happen in my lifetime (nor yours).
      How much longer is our supposedly educated population going to be gullible to the stupidity of the Left and the media (but I repeat myself)?

      52

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Having lived in Tennant Creek and Warrego for over a year plus extensive travel in the area I’d say nothing to see here .

        30

  • #
    toorightmate

    The Sydney Morning Hamas tells us today that “revellers braved the heat to get viewing points for tonight’s fireworks”.
    That heat they braved was 26 degrees.
    I guess the result of getting a vantage point at 28 degrees would be catastrophic.

    80

  • #
    pat

    makes you hope the partial shut-down continues:

    29 Dec: Bloomberg: Government Shutdown’s Latest Victim: a Global Weather Conference
    By Brian K Sullivan
    American Meteorological Society expected 700 U.S. scientists
    Annual meeting is a clearinghouse for weather research
    In January, more than 4,000 weather forecasters and researchers from around the world are scheduled to descend upon Phoenix for the American Meteorological Society’s annual meeting. That is, if the U.S. government is open.

    The meeting is going to end up with a much smaller crowd and a thinned-out agenda should the government remain partially closed, according to Keith Seitter, the society’s executive director…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-28/government-shutdown-s-latest-victim-a-global-weather-conference

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  • #
    el gordo

    Young people in China have lost faith in the capitalist model, not much different to life in Australia.

    ‘While China’s official unemployment rate reached 3.95 per cent in September — the lowest point in years — the market for good jobs is highly competitive and many young people struggle with unaffordable housing and spiralling living costs, particularly in major cities.

    ‘Dr Cai said some people were now pushing back against the norms of adulthood — marriage, children, and home ownership — as they were unable to secure well-paid work.

    “No matter how hard they study and work, many of the grassroots young Chinese still can’t purchase their own housing, raise their own children without the help from their parents, and live a comfortable life,” she said.

    ABC

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      El Gordo,

      The capitalist model, in China?

      I’m not sure that this sort of label actually tells or hides the true picture.

      From the little I’ve heard about China the thing that stands out is the enormous building programme.

      The massive construction of new cities obviously provides work, but unlike the “capitalist model” has few buyers.

      It seems that the money came from government?

      Capitalism has some logic behind it that seems to be missing in China.

      KK

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  • #
    pat

    spoken like a true politician! he must be going to run in 2020:

    reality:
    Obama committed US to contributing US$3 billion to the Green Climate Fund.
    Obama paid $1 billion.
    President Trump cancelled the remaining $2 billion.

    Bloomberg tells Chuck Todd: “America owed ***some money to help pay for the management of these programs”…
    “In the end, he did some of it or the federal government did some and my foundation paid their ***$5 million to pay what our obligation is”:

    30 Dec: WashingtonFreeBeacon: Bloomberg: U.S. Meeting Paris Climate Goals Without Being Part of the Agreement
    by Andrew Kugle
    Former New York City Mayor and possible 2020 candidate Michael Bloomberg said Sunday (on NBC’s Meet The Press) that the United States is meeting the goals of Paris Climate Accords despite withdrawing from the agreement…
    “He hasn’t fully walked away,” (Chuck) Todd said.

    “He can’t pull out until 2020, but for example, he stopped and America owed ***some money to help pay for the management of these programs. He walked away from it,” Bloomberg said. “In the end, he did some of it or the federal government did some and my foundation paid their ***$5 million to pay what our obligation is. He didn’t walk away. All of the things that were done have done by the private sector, individuals and companies.”

    “Is that the real answer? Should we give up government?” Todd asked.

    “It would be a lot more helpful if we had a climate champion rather than a climate denier in the White House,” Bloomberg responded…
    Bloomberg’s interview was part of NBC’s plan to devote a full hour of “Meet the Press” to climate change.
    “We’re not going to debate climate change, the existence of it. The Earth is getting hotter. And human activity is a major cause, period. We’re not going to give time to climate deniers. The science is settled, even if political opinion is not,” Todd said at the beginning of his show.
    https://freebeacon.com/issues/bloomberg-u-s-meeting-paris-climate-goals-without-being-part-of-the-agreement/

    best deal Bloomberg ever had – paying $5 million to cover the missing $2 billion!

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      pat

      FakeNewsNBC is “not going to confuse weather with climate”, except for “wildfires — to more intense storms, extreme rain events, and floods:

      30 Dec: NBC: Meet The Press with Chuck Todd: Transcripts
      CHUCK TODD: This Sunday, the climate crisis.
      LESTER HOLT: Brace yourselves for dangerous heat.
      FELICIA MARCUS: The drought we’re in is disastrous. Everyone ought to be worried about it.
      GABE GUTTIEREZ: Rainfall amounts really are staggering…

      ANNE THOMPSON: Annual average temperatures in the U.S. could increase anywhere from 2°F to 11°F…

      CHUCK TODD: The evidence is everywhere…
      CHUCK TODD: The science is settled.
      MICHAEL BLOOMBERG: It’s ridiculous to say it wouldn’t be better if the administration in Washington didn’t deny science…

      CHUCK TODD: …We’re not going to debate climate change, the existence of it. The Earth is getting hotter. And human activity is a major cause, period. We’re not going to give time to climate deniers. The science is settled, even if political opinion is not. ***And we’re not going to confuse weather with climate. A heat wave is no more evidence that climate change exists than a blizzard means that it doesn’t, unless the blizzard hits Miami. We do have a panel of experts with us today to help us understand the science and consequences of climate change and, yes, ideas to break the political paralysis over it. Kate Marvel is a scientist at Columbia University and NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies. And she writes the Hot Planet column for Scientific American. Craig Fugate was President Obama’s FEMA administrator for eight years. And he led emergency response for republican governor Jeb Bush of Florida before that. Michèle Flournoy served as undersecretary of defense under President Obama, where she dealt with the national security threat climate change poses. She’s also the cofounder and managing partner of WestExec Advisors. Anne Thompson is our chief environmental correspondent right here, at NBC News. And Congressman Carlos Curbelo represents the southernmost part of Florida, which is particularly threatened by climate change. Coming up, I’m also going to have conversations with former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and California governor Jerry Brown, both of whom have been on the front lines, dealing with climate change over the last few years. But we’re going to begin with a look at a crisis that’s been ignored for too long…

      REPORTER: They say economic impact would be devastating.

      DONALD TRUMP:

      Yeah, I don’t believe it.

      REPORTER: You don’t believe it?

      DONALD TRUMP: No. No, I don’t believe it.

      CHUCK TODD: But in a new NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll, two-thirds of Americans believe action is needed to address global climate change. 45% say the problem is serious enough for immediate action, a record high. ***Climate-related disasters, from wildfires — to more intense storms, extreme rain events, and floods, are already a serious threat and getting worse…READ ON
      https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-december-30-2018-n951406

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    Another Ian

    The news slowly spreading

    “Leichardt Council’s catastrophe on Sydney Harbour”

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/12/leichardt-councils-catastrophe-on-sydney-harbour.html

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    Slithers

    Found this comment somewhere no link no data.
    There is evidence that the surface temperature on Mars has been slowly increasing!
    I have done some research on this but came up with nothing. The question does bear looking into, how about the surface temperature of Luna?

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    .

    Just in time for the New Year, an article which will stop you feeling gloomy about the future.

    How far would you need to move towards the nearest Pole, to reverse one degree Celsius of global warming?

    You may have already been thinking about moving towards one of the Poles (the North Pole, or the South Pole), in order to avoid global warming. But how far should you go?

    Don’t worry any longer, this article tells you exactly how far you should move, to get the perfect climate.

    Not only that, this article also shows you how to find your pre-industrial paradise.

    And there is more. Experience global warming, before it actually happens (that way, you can see whether you like it, or not).

    Don’t wait any longer, click the following link.

    https://agree-to-disagree.com/how-far-to-reverse-global-warming

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      Kinky Keith

      Maybe next year, 2020.

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      AndyG55

      Thing is Sheldon, That the warming that is taking place is mainly in winter and nightime temperatures.

      Maximum temperature are not really moving much at all.

      This fact may also need to be considered in you 1 degree C scenario. ;-)

      I live near Sydney…. last few days have been a bit warm and “muggy”, but no more so than when I was younger. Cicadas are still a just as raucous.

      Sea level does not appear to have changed since I was a nipper at Wanda Beach, a LONG time ago.

      I have relatives in Tassie, but I try mostly to visit only in summer. :-)

      I don’t particularly like the cold that much, choosing to stay where I know it is warmer.

      Around here is pretty much the IDEAL climate, if you ask me..

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    Greebo

    Posted on the HNY thread, but I’ll do it again here…

    Maybe not so happy for Patreon or PayPal, it seems.

    https://youtu.be/FzuIXEB6SUI

    https://youtu.be/voO6noMRdS0

    https://youtu.be/VvGs5bGwWiM

    I’m not sure where the worm needs to be, but perhaps it is turning. It’s a long time until critical mass, but it’s a start. The only person in these vids that I have heard of id Jordan Petersen, but apparently they all have high profiles. Oh, and Sam Harris as well.Might be another own goal.

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    Hanrahan

    Do you have “a friend” who drinks too much?

    My GP tells me I drink too much [not sure a monk would get a pass mark] but she has never had one useful thing to say about how I should cut back. Tonight I read about the Sinclair Method and the bluddy thing is not new, it’s been around for a decade. Why does it take twenty years for our GPs to “catch up”?

    I can’t give medical advice but you could start your own reading here: [read the comments too, there are many endorsements]

    The Paradoxical Sinclair Method For Treating Alcohol Dependence
    Mark Dombeck, Ph.D.

    https://www.centersite.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=11132&cn=14

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      Hanrahan

      An addendum to my post #72 [as long as it lasts there]

      This looks well suited to those who still consider themselves social drinkers.

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    RAH

    This little tidbit came up on my newsfeed today about your part of the world. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-31/cane-toads-hitch-ride-on-monty-the-python-back/10675944

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    RAH

    Since freight has been slow as it typically is between Christmas and New Years I have had some time to do a little research on what ever subjects interest me at this particular time.

    The last couple days I have taken the time to watch some videos and read on up on Mt. St. Helens. Those of us old enough of course remember the massive display of natures power from that eruption which was the largest in recorded history in the lower 48 of the US and were stunned by the destruction that it wrought. The fuse for the 1980 eruption was a very short one. Less than 5 months passed from the first indications that the mountain was coming alive until it’s massive eruption. Now it’s the most monitored mountain in the United States.

    But to me as impressive as that eruption was, the display of natures real power is in how quickly the recovery from that massive blast has been. There is already aquatic flora growing along the shores and they’re catching 7-8″ rainbow trout in lakes that did not even exist before that massive eruption in May of 1980. Already the young trees are getting thick enough to cover the massive scars. Wild flowers cover the still open areas in the spring right up to the base of the mountain. As the melt water flows down the mountain it is cutting new streams through the ash and mud flows and thus the terrain is always shifting and changing and will continue to do so for decades to come at an impressive rate even without a new eruption.

    I was fascinated to learn that gophers and other borrowing animals had a lot to do with new plant growth. Those underground which survived borrowed up through the ash and then back down through and by doing what gophers do brought the fertile soil and seeds from below up to the surface thus allowing the species of plants that could not germinate in the acidic ash, pumice, and mud flows to have a place to grow. Already elk, bear, and even mountain goats have returned.

    Oh! BTW Mt. St. Helens is where the youngest glacier in the United states is located. A new glacier formed in the crater and has been growing except during those times of minor eruptions such as in 2004 when the glacier was split by a new lava dome that formed. Mt. St. Helens remains the most active volcano in the lower 48 and like volcanoes do it will most likely grow over time until once again it becomes a ticking time bomb.

    It occurs to me that those that believe in AGW do not appreciate just how powerful, complex, and multifaceted the self regulating and regenerating systems are on this planet we are so blessed to inhabit. But then again, this skeptic is also amazed by the sheer power of the natural forces which rule. To steal a great line from Jurassic park “Life will find a way”. Too bad the actor that had that line is one that does not see how correct that statement truly is and that man does not rule nature and cannot control it. We can help or hurt but we have no “control knobs”.

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    Kim

    2018 – it was so good Sydney wants to repeat it – Happy New Year 2018? Sydney’s embarrassing NYE blunder – https://thewest.com.au/news/nsw/happy-new-year-2018-sydneys-embarrassing-nye-blunder-ng-b881062313z .

    Happy New Year 2019 to everyone. May it be a magnificent, fruitful and forward moving year.

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    Global warming temperature distributions
    ===================================

    Using a single number to represent global warming, like 1.5 or 2.0 degrees Celsius of global warming, makes it hard to see how bad the problem really is. Is 2.0 degrees Celsius of global warming a major change from what we have now, or is it a minor change?

    Using temperature anomalies to represent global warming, removes (or ignores) what is “normal” for temperatures. “Normal”, becomes a single temperature anomaly, 0.0 degrees Celsius. Does 0.0 degrees Celsius, really represent the “normal” temperature distribution on the Earth.

    What is the solution to this problem? The answer is to look at temperature distributions, rather than single numbers. Temperature distributions make global warming multi-dimensional, rather than a one-dimensional number. Temperature distributions show how the temperature varies with latitude, elevation, proximity to the ocean, size of landmass, and many other factors.

    Comparing the “normal” temperature distribution, to a “global warming” temperature distribution, makes it easier to judge the size of the problem. Are “alarmists” trying to turn a molehill into a mountain? Or are “deniers” trying to turn a mountain into a molehill?

    This article will show you the temperature distributions for a range of global warming “amounts”. People with weak hearts should not look at the more extreme amounts of global warming. Seeing 10.0 or 15.0 degrees Celsius of global warming on a graph, may be too much for those with a vivid imagination.

    This article offers a choice of global warming simulations.

    1) with NO polar amplification

    2) WITH polar amplification

    https://agree-to-disagree.com/gw-temperature-distributions-1

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    RAH

    So NBC Meet The Press goes the route of the LA Times, BBC, Guardian, and so many others. Chuck Todd has dropped any pretense of objectivity.
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/39790/watch-chuck-todd-bans-climate-deniers-meet-press-hank-berrien
    It would be really funny if every person, personality, celebrity, politician, etc that could be classified as a “denier” would refuse to appear on NBC News and their affiliates because they would say they are not welcome as per Chuck Todd no matter the subject of the interview. Of course that’s a pipe dream but it sure would be funny to see the results.
    I take two things away from this.
    1. Weakness of the alarmists and their argument. Hardly any of the major proponents of Catastrophic Climate Change will share the stage in a direct debate on the subject of the science of “climate change”.
    2. NBC News and Meet the Press setting the table for not having to answer questions about or deal with challenges by informed “deniers” of the outrageous crazy stuff we are going to see the incoming democrats in the HR present in legislation to supposedly combat Climate Change in the new congress. Besides, Todd most certainly won’t want anyone with a brain and having an opposing view confront the likes of a radical leftist dingbat like incoming congress woman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Meet the Press! It would be very embarrassing for NBC and the democrats and damage the whole catastrophic climate change campaign.

    Dr. Judith Curry slaps down liar Michael Mann during testimony on Climate Change before the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee in 2017.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPUMztYMuis

    Dr. Curry was the Chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology. She among many others with equally impressive academic credentials would be the “deniers” which Chuck Todd would refuse to allow on Meet the Press because he knows so much more than they do about climate science you know. Michael Mann is currently director of the Earth System Science Center at Pennsylvania State University. He was the primary creator of the Hockey Stick graph which now even the UNs IPCC has rejected as a viable temperature history. Communications from Mann were prominent in the “Climate Gate” emails hacked from the East Anglican University Climate Research Unit. I’m sure he and those who hold similar views would be welcomed on Meet the Press.

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