JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

Australian Environment Conference Oct 20 2012


micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Tim Flannery in Parramatta will be happy to answer your questions. Book now!

Tim Flannery is paid to help you understand why Australia is getting a Carbon Tax in eight weeks time. If you can’t fathom why the nation which emits just 1.3% of all man-made CO2 is going to pay three times the current market rate to reduce world temperatures by 0.00 degrees C, I’m sure Prof Tim will be delighted to help. Do book quickly. Sometimes these events sell out (even before they are publicized).

Australia’s Chief Climate Commissioner, Professor Tim Flannery, is visiting Sydney. The sixth biggest CBD in the country, Parramatta will host the next public forum for the Climate Commission. This is your opportunity to get involved in the conversation about climate change.

The Climate Commission provides independent, authoritative information on climate change to the Australian public.

Event details

Where: Parramatta RSL club , Cnr Macquarie & O’Connell St , Parramatta

When: 6:30 PM – 8:00 PM, Tuesday 15 May 2012. Doors open 6.00pm

Everyone is welcome. Book your place now to avoid disappointment.

Click here to Register for attendance
H/t Pat

What would you like to ask Tim in our National Climate Conversation?

  • Perhaps you wonder why he keeps calling us names?
  • Maybe you can’t figure out how the Climate Commission can call themselves “independent” when it’s funded by The Government?
  • Perhaps you’d like to see a real debate instead of just being told “there isn’t one”.
  • Could it be that the compelling case to sacrifice billions to “lead the way” to escapes you? You wonder why we don’t spend that money planting trees, curing cancer, or feeding kids in Chad? Better to let them starve eh?
  • The Clean-Energy-Future-Fund tells households they don’t have to pay the carbon tax (because it only applies to evil corporations). If we don’t have to pay, which part of our electricity bill do we ignore?
VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.7/10 (69 votes cast)
Tim Flannery in Parramatta will be happy to answer your questions. Book now!, 9.7 out of 10 based on 69 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/7ujqyul

104 comments to Tim Flannery in Parramatta will be happy to answer your questions. Book now!

  • #
    Kinkykeith

    As mainstream science tries to remove the ugly cancer of “Climate Science” from its’ severely damaged corps we can look back through history and see the pattern.

    An enthusiast, or maybe sociopath is a better description, charms, cajoles, intimidates and draws in people to his cause.

    Neither innate intellect nor education are essential attributes to be a Leader as so ably demonstrated by the efforts of Hitler and now we have the new cause of Greenness and environmental responsibility being dumped on us.

    When will humanity ever achieve the collective capacity to really see things more accurately?

    It seems we are forever doomed to spend long periods in a collective mental fog which only lifts after a world war or, as in this case, the decimation of modern economies.


    Report this

    00

    • #

      Only individuals can see, know, understand, decide, and act.

      A member of a collective can only see what the next member sees. The next member can see only what the next member sees. It continues until the next member is the first in line. The net of it all is that the collective sees nothing.

      As a consequence, the collective is in thrall to its self selected “leaders” and can see only that which its “leaders” decree they shall see. It makes no difference who the “leader” of the collective happens to be because he will see only what he allows his collective to see.

      The unintended consequences of this blindness to reality accumulate until the collective collapses from the weight of its evasions of reality and its numerous contradictions. We are thereby forever doomed as long as we collectively believe in the superiority of the collective and the inferiority of the individual.


      Report this

      00

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        That is very profound, even for you.

        Thank you Lionell.


        Report this

        00

      • #
        Kevin Moore

        Wes,

        My take on your thoughts -

        Govern-ment means rule the mind.

        It makes no difference who the “leader” of the collective happens to be because he will see only what he allows his collective to see.

        Leaders these days practise deception,lie by omission, seldom practise what they preach [hypocrites]. Their desire is for power and glory – they as leaders of the inferior flock tell you what to think and how to act and enforce punishment even when there is no victim.

        Whereas a true leader does not lie, has the interests of the people at heart,does not consider themself a class above everybody, and leads as a servant to the people by example.

        The individual knows and follows a true leader but resists the deceiving herder.


        Report this

        00

      • #
        Kinkykeith

        As RW says” Thanks Lionell.”

        That very clearly states what is going on and is the first step, the next being to take action based on your analysis.

        That’s how science works.

        Perhaps we are being “scientific” about purging the Warmer Myth; where to from here?

        One idea that has been noted just in the last few days, is to turn the D word around and outline how it fits the Warmers perfectly because of their refusal to think.

        The big D has a lot of “Image” already and could easily be turned back on the likes of Tim to great effect.


        Report this

        00

      • #
        John from CA

        +10

        An interesting study was done related to Democracies around the world. Why do some succeed and others fail. It turns out, according to the study, Democracies based on the Rights of the Individual succeed and the others fall apart.

        I guess it takes the resolve of individuals to make a kingdom. ; )


        Report this

        00

    • #
      Jon

      Enviro socialism is also about moving political to the left nationally and globally and staying in power/office by getting rid of the middle class?


      Report this

      00

  • #
    Jaymez

    Perhaps someone could ask him any of these questions:

    What alternative hypothesise have the Climate Commissioners considered for climate change other than CO2 being the main driver, and why have they discounted those hypothesise? Or,

    In light of the fact that just about every prediction you (Flannery) have made about climate change matters and it’s impact over the last few years has been proven wrong, has that given you any reason to question your faith in human CO2 being the main climate driver? If not why not? Or

    In light of Danish physicist Henrik Svensmark’s recent peer reviewed paper “Evidence of nearby supernovae affecting life on Earth”, isn’t it premature for the Climate Commission to claim the science is settled on CO2 being the main climate driver? If not why not? Or,

    Since Climate Scientists have been caught out lying about receiving death threats, a claim you repeated many times in the media yourself, does it make you wonder what else they may be prepared to lie about to further their agenda? Given this isn’t the first fraud climate scientists have been caught in, (Climate-gate, Hockey Stick, non-peer reviewed references in IPCC reports, suppressing sceptical scientists and their research, Peter Gleick ‘Fakegate’ affair etc), don’t you think it is time to hold a Royal Commission or other independent Parliamentary investigation into Climate Science in Australia before we launch the economically harmful and environmentally fruitless carbon tax? If not why not?


    Report this

    00

    • #
      Bulldust

      Spot on J man. Or we could cut to the chase with:

      When did you realise you were no longer a scientist and simply a shill for hire to advocate for Big Government?


      Report this

      00

    • #
      Jon

      If you look at their solutions it seams that the main object is to get rid of the Western middle class one way or another?
      Lenin, Mao and North-Korea have all had success with this and silenced critic and secured the political power for decades.


      Report this

      00

  • #
    chestdocmd

    Dear Comrade Tim Flannery,

    I saw my neighbor idiling his car in his drive way because he forgot something and ran back into his house. (The car was not electric!) When will it be completely illegal to committ this heinous crime againist Gaia and the state?? Also are you and the government going to set up a citizen’s spy network soon? We need an organization that we can report our friends, family and neighbors to when we see egregious violations against the climate. Maybe there could be a reward system for reporting violations. It worked great in the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany!

    Signed, a loyal party member……


    Report this

    00

    • #
      Pamplemousse

      ChestDocMD – just FYI in Switzerland it is common – and in some case compulsory – to switch off your engine at red traffic lights. Buses also turn off their engines when stopping to pick up passengers or at red traffic lights – and seem to have an instant start system fitted to their engines. The buses I saw doing this were a Swiss make – SAURER.

      Sometimes you have to turn off your engine while waiting for a red traffic light. This is indicated by signs along the road. Even if not mandatory, it will be appreciated if you turn off the engine while you have to wait for a longer period of time, e.g. for a railroad crossing.


      Report this

      00

      • #
        Bulldust

        I wonder whether this would save or cost more fuel for a traditional car … i.e. petrol driven. Let alone wear and tear on the starter motor etc.


        Report this

        00

  • #
    klem

    “which part of our electricity bill do we ignore?”

    Exactly. Australins aren’t really that bad at math.

    I hope lots of skeptics show up for this forum.

    This should be entertaining.


    Report this

    00

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      I hope lots of skeptics show up for this forum.

      You have to apply early to allow time for the vetting.

      But then of course, being a skeptic, you would find that it was all sold out.


      Report this

      00

      • #
        Pat Kelly

        My registration was accepted straight away with a confirmatory e-mail. However note that the registration process required you to advise what questions you wish to ask. I naively entered some genuine posers and probably won’t be invited to the microphone. Perhaps someone else could be a bit cagier and advise a Dorothy Dixer and spring something unexpected on the Flim Flam.


        Report this

        00

    • #
      Jaymez

      I’ve seen a couple of these formats televised and they do control the questions very closely. In any event, the standard answer to any curly questions is that “the best climate scientists in the world are in agreement that……”

      In addition, whoever the attendant climate expert is has a standard catastrophic anthropogenic global warming presentation with slides.

      They are not open forums or debates. They are not ‘listening’ to Australians.


      Report this

      00

  • #
    John from CA

    Hi Jo,
    I’m not quite sure what this is intended to do, possibly a positive if it addresses groups like Green Piece, but I thought you’d appreciate the fyi. Possible question for Tim Flannery.

    Review of not-for-profit governance arrangements

    Regards,
    John


    Report this

    00

    • #
      John from CA

      make that Greenpeace — Freudian slip; probably because its a piece of…


      Report this

      00

    • #
      John from CA

      these search results are also interesting


      Report this

      00

    • #
      John from CA

      Follow the Money — are any Politicians associated with or on the Board of:

      The Clean Energy Finance Corporation, Australia’s equivalent of the UK Green Investment Bank or the US CEDA or PREF Programs, is set to be established as an independent corporation, with secure funding and a flexible mandate to invest in debt, equity and funds participations.

      Is this fraud?

      We report the News for You to Judge and follow. : )


      Report this

      00

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        an independent corporation with secure funding

        That’s a total contradiction!
        Even BHP doesn’t have “secure funding”. If their product costs too much, nobody will buy it!

        And John if you have any legal experience I hope you can help explain a new term:

        The Carbon Price Mechanism is a relevant matter for a consent authority to consider in deciding to impose conditions with respect to GHG emissions

        What the hell kind of appendage of the state is a “consent authority”?? It sounds quite Orwellian.

        If the Queens’ Counsels of Australia stand to make money out of carbon pricing shenanigans, what chance is there of finding anyone to run a Royal Commission inquiry into this scam?

        Changing the climate almost seems easy compared to changing the course of our own government.


        Report this

        00

        • #
          John from CA

          Consent Authority

          The term consent authority (in general) has been adopted in the EPAA and the Environmental Planning and Assessment Regulation 2000 (EPAR) in reference to NSW local councils, the Department of Planning (DOP) and State Government authorities such as Sydney Harbour Foreshore Authority (SHFA). The Councils and SHFA are responsible for the approval (or otherwise) of all development applications within their boundaries required to be submitted under the EPAA, with DOP acting as consent authority for all NSW ‘state significant’ development.


          Report this

          00

  • #
    Wendy

    Dang, we’re missing all the action over there!! First Delingpole and now the opportunity to grill Flannery. We arrive in Perth on the 20th!
    One for Flannery……..How much water has gone over the tops of those dams lately? ;) The ones that you predicted would never fill again. THOSE dams.
    (Any other events happening in Perth in the 3 weeks following the 20th?)


    Report this

    00

  • #
    MurrayA

    My question is:
    Why, when you keep telling about global warming causing sea levels to rise to prodigious heights, and local councils following your lead forbid home owners from doing improvements or even order them to evacuate their land, do you own a house and land on the water’s edge in the Hawkesbury estuary? If you don’t believe your own rhetoric, why on earth should we?


    Report this

    00

    • #
      Siliggy

      How about.
      With the risk of future heavy rain followed by drought and the need for cheaper electricity do you think Australia should build more dams and let some water out of our current dams to provide a flood saftey margin?


      Report this

      00

      • #

        Flood control dams should not be used to store water! Water would have to be distributed to holding reservoirs.


        Report this

        00

        • #
          Siliggy

          So just rename them then!


          Report this

          00

        • #
          AndyG55

          Yep, a full dam has absolutely zero flood mitigation effect.

          That’s why they have operating rules, that SHOULD be followed.. whoops !!!

          And yes, Siliggy, we should have more dams.
          We have a very erratic climate, and a quickly growing population.

          And we are going to have a long drought again, sometime……. it’s Australia !!

          It will be interesting to see if common sense starts to prevail and the greens can be kicked out of the way so these sort of essential projects can proceed.


          Report this

          00

  • #
    pattoh

    & security will be by GetUp……..


    Report this

    00

  • #
    MadJak

    Heres’ what appears to be an attempt to smear James Ashby:

    I wonder if this is because he has lodged a complaint against Mr Slipper alleging sexual harassment?

    It was written by Jessica Wright of the Age


    Report this

    00

    • #
      Jaymez

      As many commentators have already stated – so what if Ashby was encouraged to take action against Slipper. A cursory look at Slipper’s released cab charge dockets shows there are clearly serious questions to be answered by Slipper. As far as the sexual harassment issues are concerned, the provision of text messages which have been published and not denied by Slipper, certainly points to improper behaviour if not found to be sexual harassment. If Ashby had confided in anyone on this matter, any sensible person would have advised him to take action against Slipper. Are Labor suggesting they think the action was inappropriate? If not, does it matter if it was encouraged by anyone?


      Report this

      00

  • #
    Pamplemousse

    How many seats are available for non GetUp members?
    Would Tim be prepared to debate “The Truth of AGW” with Jack Nicholson?


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Amr Marzouk

    i’de rather have my teeth pulled than sit and listen to him talk down to the oiks he thinks we all are.


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Peter Lang

    Jo, you asked:

    What would you like to ask Tim in our National Climate Conversation?

    I have two questions:

    1. What is the estimated benefit and what is the cost of the CO2 pricing scheme for the period to 2050?
    [by the way, I’ve posted what I believe is the answer at the end of this thread on Bishop Hill: http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2012/4/4/nordhaus-and-the-sixteen.html

    2. What will be the compliance scheme for the ETS when it is implemented to the standard that will ultimately be required?


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Weeelll

    The real question you need to ask Tim is how to get funded to do your own documentary – don’t be content with Youtube Jo – go to TV (past experience may help?) – “Two sceptics in a Tinny” or “Six sceptics on the Great Divide with six opinions”, “I was teenage denialist werewolf (err sceptic)?”

    You could do all the interviews asking those simple questions with BoM, CSIRO luminaries. Brekky with John Cook and why he does it. Why Marc Morano is really a nice guy.

    But seriously – we’re bored – where’s the entertainment?


    Report this

    00

  • #
    John Watt

    Flannery needs to explain just how more CO2 causes surface temperatures to rise alarmingly. He should be asked to explain this in terms using, at the very least, 20th century physics as opposed to a 19th century hypothesis(Arrhenius)that is so often trotted out in public fora. It may be a little inconvenient/embarrassing for him to admit the task is outside his area of expertise. Are taxpayers funding him to promote something that he does not fully understand?


    Report this

    00

  • #
    val majkus

    keep it simple would be my advice
    for example “who are you to tell us what to do when none of your predictions have come true”

    John Watt says ‘are taxpayers funding him to promote something’ – the reality is taxpayers are funding him to sell them something


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Greg Cavanagh

    I would like to see the numerical analysis of how a tax is related to CO2 ocncentrations in the atmosphere.

    Then I would like to see their analysis of how much they expect an increase in tax, to affect the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. (somthing like raising taxes by 10% will drop the conentration by 5%? maybe??).


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Sonny

    I would like to ask whether he has a personal bodyguard and whether they have metal detectors at security. If not, I would ask why not


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Ross

    There are couple of very good threads on Bishop Hill at the moment that are worth reading ( Tim Flannery might learn something from them as well)

    http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2012/5/4/crok-interviews-vahrenholt.html

    It is well worth reading the full interview from the Energy Review article as well as the comments for the BH thread.

    http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2012/5/4/wunsch-on-nature.html

    Interesting comments from an academic about the Nature and Science journals.


    Report this

    00

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      “Nonetheless, he said, his colleagues reassure him that just because something appears in Nature doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong.”

      I think that says it all.

      That is a keeper – absolute classic.


      Report this

      00

  • #

    Would it be unfair of me to describe Professor Flannery as a distraction from the main game, a useful idiot if you will, someone the Government might use to draw away some of the flak, while they concentrate on the main game.

    You know, give him some sort of title, pay him a motza to do not very much, make his face known around the traps and in effect, drawing the people’s anger towards him, even allow him to make some outrageous statements,(because in effect, this serves its purpose) while all the while building something that is monumentally huge while the public are distracted, if you can see that point I’m attempting to make here.

    Take a look at this Government website.

    Clean Energy Regulator

    Everything to do with these 18/19 separate pieces of legislation is gradually moving into this overarching Department.

    Recently, the (newly released) NGER has moved here also, as has a number of other areas.

    It is now becoming monumentally huge. You could spend all day for a number of days at this site and still not see it all, let alone understand it.

    This Government has set up a bureaucracy so huge behind all this that it makes Pink Batts and School Halls look like a Grade 9 Assignment a teacher gives her students.

    Think about how difficult that is going to be to wind back, and especially the incredible cost to wind it back.

    So, Tim (et al) is used as a distraction, to draw some of the heat away from what is really going on here.

    The Government knows they cannot do without coal fired power.
    The Government knows that this will not reduce those emissions.
    The Government knows that Renewables can’t supply the power that is needed.
    The Government knows they can find someone other than them to blame for this huge money grab.

    So they use Professor Flannery to distract people away from what they really are doing.

    Ask him something obscure that actually seems innocuous.

    Ask him how soon he’ll have a hot rock power plant that delivers what Bayswater does, how soon it will be on line delivering power to the grid, and how much it will cost, how efficient it will be, but of most importance, WHEN it will be on line.

    Tony.


    Report this

    00

    • #

      Oh what tosh! Wind and solar etc can supply our baseline needs. Price of solar electricity is dropping quickly, will soon be cheaper than coal.


      Report this

      00

      • #

        Maxine,

        Wind and solar etc can supply our baseline needs.

        oh, ho ho ho!

        I’ll bet even you’re laughing at that one.

        Two sentences, and one sentence truncated by a comma. Wrong on all 4 counts.

        Tony.


        Report this

        00

      • #

        OK Maxine,

        it’s not up to me to disprove what you have to say. It’s up to you to prove what you say.

        So, umm, let’s pick one, say Bayswater for example.

        Off you go then.

        Find me one Solar Plant (on Planet Earth) that supplies the same total power on the same regular basis as Bayswater.

        If not, then find one plant that does supply power, and then scale that up to how many might be needed to replace Bayswater. Show us power totals, the cost, and how long before they will be on stream delivering power.

        Maybe then try the same process with Wind. All the same details.

        I won’t tell you.

        You tell us. You made the claim. Now back it up.

        Tony.


        Report this

        00

        • #
          Andrew McRae

          Coming up next on your ABC, “I Can Change Your Mind About Renewable Energy”, hosted by Maxine and TonyFromOz.

          Special Q&A panel afterwards features Tony, Maxine, Head of CSIRO, the head of the Solar Energy Retailers Association, the head of the Clean Energy Commission, and the head of ActewAGL.

          The studio will be fully powered by renewable energy for this special event, so studio audience members please check the weather report closer to the day to find out if you are needed.


          Report this

          00

          • #

            Andrew,

            Coming up next on your ABC, “I Can Change Your Mind About Renewable Energy”, hosted by Maxine and TonyFromOz.

            Wouldn’t work sorry. The crew wouldn’t be able to stop me laughing long enough to comment.

            Special Q&A panel afterwards features Tony, Maxine, Head of CSIRO, the head of the Solar Energy Retailers Association, the head of the Clean Energy Commission, and the head of ActewAGL.

            Wouldn’t work sorry. See previous response.

            On a serious side though, see what I’m up against.

            Maxine makes a comment of one and a half lines, barely 25 words. 4 completely false statements and would take a long response on each count to counter, and explain correctly.

            See how they’ve reduced their side of the argument to minute sound bites.

            Tony.


            Report this

            00

          • #
            Andrew McRae

            Yes it was a long shot. Having the panel stacked against you was intended to be a sarcastic prediction of ABC’s tactics, and although I found it humourous I now realise it may not be much of a laughing matter if it actually happened. It is good you can laugh about such things.

            If I was in the hot seat I might not be able to restrain myself from angrily interrupting the others since I do not have a lot of patience with idiotic middle-management minions.

            Yes their argument is sound bites because it stems from a touchy-feely approach instead of an engineering approach. The truth is true because it derives from a multitude of facts, all far too boring and mentally costly for the punters. If the Green Left were serious about changing the public’s mind they would have a structured argument spread over several episodes to disprove common objections with facts. They don’t because they can’t, it’s all wishful thinking. The format is rigged to bamboozle and construct false consensus. When the Faithful One says their soundbite the rigged audience erupts into 10 seconds of applause. When the sobering facts are enumerated by the educated the host will quickly cross to some QUANGO henchman to misdirect with hollow moralising and UN worshipping. It’s all so predictable.


            Report this

            00

          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            I have sat through some of these “planning sessions” (and no, I am not going to say why).

            They usually go this way: “What is the central message we need to get across?” – five to ten minute discussion – “OK, so it seems we are in an agreement that the message is …”. – general acceptance – “OK, now lets brainstorm phrases that capture the essence of the message, remember they need to be catchy and memorable, who would like to start … ?”

            That is where your sound bites come from – nothing to do with reality – everything to do with a herd mentality that desperately needs to feel accepted. Personally, I blame their collective mothers.


            Report this

            00

      • #
        Sonny

        “Baseline” needs? I think it is “baseload” needs.
        And no Maxine. Wind and solar cannot supply our baseload needs.
        Stop telling naughty fibs!


        Report this

        00

        • #

          Maxine is typical of these three sentence wonders. They have no idea about what they are saying, they don’t even know the terms, and have less than zero understanding of what that term actually means.

          Base Load is two words.

          They use is as an adjective.

          Tony.


          Report this

          00

          • #
            Bob Malloy

            Maxine is typical of these three sentence wonders. They have no idea about what they are saying, they don’t even know the terms, and have less than zero understanding of what that term actually means.

            If I am allowed to speculate, the minute you put the pressure on Maxine to prove her prediction, projection, theory, claim “Wind and solar etc can supply our baseline needs” she immediately sent out an appeal for help from all the green propagandist and green energy proponents she can contact.


            Report this

            00

          • #

            To be greeted by the sound of absolute silence.

            They know!

            (Well, they don’t really.)

            Tony.


            Report this

            00

          • #
            Bob Malloy

            Tony:

            This story fron WUWT might be of interest to you. It might also be of intersest to Maxine.

            How Green Was My Bankruptcy?

            The Cimarron solar facility will be the the biggest of it’s kind when it is finished next year.

            Its 500,000 photovoltaic panels will generate 30 megawatts of electricity, enough, in the popular measurement, to power 9,000 homes. It is costing about $250 million to build, significantly less than a gas, coal or nuclear power station, which can easily exceed $1 billion. And it represents a sea-change in America’s energy business.

            KNOXVILLE — The Tennessee Valley Authority on Thursday decided to build an $820 million natural gas power plant in northeastern Tennessee to comply with a North Carolina lawsuit over air quality.

            The 880-megawatt combined-cycle gas plant would be as large as the 1950s-era, coal-fired John Sevier plant in Rogersville that a federal judge has targeted for new pollution controls on North Carolina’s behalf.

            $820 million divided by 880 MW works out to $931,818 per MW.
            $250 million divided by 30 MW works out to $8,333,333 per MW.


            Report this

            00

        • #

          And this is only Solar PV, in other words, it only generates power while the sun shines on the panels.

          On a bright Sunny Summer’s day with no cloud, you’ll get around (the equivalent of) full power for maybe 7 hours tops, and on sunny cloud free Winter Days, maybe 5 hours tops, so that’s the equivalent of full power year round at around an average of 6 hours, and keep in mind, that’s the theoretical best case scenario.

          It could probably last 25 years at the best, but after 12 to 15 years, the panels have lost almost 30 to 50% of their generating capacity.

          According to their own website, this plant will deliver 60GWH a year, which is actually a Capacity Factor of only 22.8% which in reality is an average power for only five and a half hours a day.

          Bayswater delivers the same power in, and wait for this, 30 hours.

          Spooky eh!

          Tony.


          Report this

          00

          • #

            Wanna hear something else that’s also pretty spooky.

            I mentioned how Bayswater supplies that same amount of power in those 30 hours.

            The Government’s take from that in their Tax on CO2.

            Drum roll.

            $1.689 Million.

            As Wayne Swan might say ….. “my God how the money rolls in.

            Tony.


            Report this

            00

    • #
      Kevin Moore

      Tony,

      I agree,we should keep our focus on the main game and not be distracted by Flannery.

      The only interest of the Banker owners of the multinationals is in the centralisation of world power. Their issue and control of money gives them the power to erode liberty,transfer the worlds wealth to themselves and ultimately own he world.The Carbon Trading Scheme will just hasten the process.

      Flannery is just a circus to divert attention from the real game.


      Report this

      00

  • #

    I would ask him why the thickest parts of Arctic ice are melting the fastest.

    http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/thick-melt.html

    Actic ice extent as such not that important.


    Report this

    00

    • #
      Sonny

      I would ask him if he would please adopt Maxine


      Report this

      00

    • #
      Sonny

      As for your question, you already know the answer. Dirty dirty fossil fuel industry is adding too much carbon pollution into the atmosphere which is causing run away global warming and or climate change which is evidenced by NASA’s studies showing that thick ice melts more quickly than thin ice.


      Report this

      00

    • #
      Kinkykeith

      Ice that has a volcano under it tends to melt faster.

      :)


      Report this

      00

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      Meanwhile, in the Netherlands 38 degrees south of the North Pole.


      Report this

      00

    • #
      handjive

      @Maxine
      May 5, 2012 at 12:57 pm

      Well, thank goodness NASA can justify their failed man made global warming Arctic predictions with shiny computer graphics, because UN-IPCC/CSIRO glacier claims are fail:

      RISES in sea levels are unlikely to be as high as worst-case scenarios have forecast, according to new research, published in the journal Science that shows Greenland’s glaciers are slipping into the sea more slowly than previously thought.

      ”We found we are certainly not on the worst-case scenario, but

      Other recent studies have shown the world’s greatest peaks in the Himalayas have lost no ice in the last decade, while the Karakoram glaciers have grown.

      The new research shows glacier acceleration remains ”well below” even the lower scenario.

      No matter. Australian govt. funded climate scientists are trying their darn hardest to find anything to blame man made global warming and justify a carbon (sic) tax with NO success:

      Yesterday the chief scientist of this latest expedition, Dr Steve Rintoul of CSIRO and the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems CRC, reported his team’s findings back to a meeting of the Australian Academy of Science convened in Canberra to mark 100 years of Antarctic science.

      The sinking of dense water around Antarctica is part of a global pattern of ocean currents that has a strong influence on climate, so evidence that these waters are changing is important,” Rintoul says.

      ”Now we see in places like Antarctica responding very rapidly to changes in climate – man-made or natural – and transferring those signals rapidly into the deep ocean.

      Whether this change is part of a long natural cycle, or whether it is a consequence of increased warming of the oceans as a consequence of man-made climate change we don’t know, Rintoul says. (my bold)

      ”We don’t know that is happening yet, but that is why we are so interested.”

      Understanding of the cycle of evaporation and rainfall is one of the most confounding and disputed areas of climate investigation.

      Did I mention ‘settled climate science?’
      You know, the type of science quoted to justify a carbon & oxygen tax?

      Of course, Maxine could quote Mark Serreze, of the US National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC), ” North Pole Could Be Ice Free in 2008,” but, that would make NASA’S, and Maxine’s cute graphic to 2012 a FAIL.


      Report this

      00

  • #
    pat

    classic!

    5 May: Bloomberg: Matthew Carr: Carbon Market Lobbyist Criticizes ‘Whopping Falsehoods’
    The carbon market has been damaged by three “whopping falsehoods” that slowed its growth and caused European lawmakers to question their belief in the system, said the retiring head of a carbon market lobby group.
    “The political environment has been dominated by an ebb tide,” Henry Derwent, chief executive of the International Emissions Trading Association, said today by phone from Geneva on his last day at the lobby group’s headquarters. “The European Union emissions trading system is still there, though it’s bleeding from a few wounds, some self-inflicted.”
    The first lie is that climate science is exaggerated, boring and unimportant, Derwent said. The second is that nations shouldn’t protect the climate because others aren’t and the third is that markets are not the best solution, he said. “It’s not surprising that those who don’t want to do anything are seduced by the falsehoods.”
    EU carbon permits have plunged 80 percent since peaking at 34.40 euros ($45.17) a metric ton in 2008, the same year Derwent joined IETA as president. He previously helped advise U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair…
    Carbon permits for December fell 4.33 percent today to 6.85 euros on the ICE Futures Europe exchange in London as of 12:18 p.m…
    “We really thought we were doing fantastically well,” he said. “We just did not realize how bad things could get. We might have managed to prevent it falling so far as it did.”
    Dirk Forrister, the former climate adviser to U.S. President Bill Clinton, is replacing Derwent this week. “Watch out very carefully for the tides of changing opinion” is Derwent’s advice to his successor. “We must make sure that we don’t get beached by this ebb tide.” …
    Some European Union lawmakers are doubting that carbon markets are the answer to climate change, Derwent said. “It’s a shame to see the EU collectively losing its belief.”
    European Commission officials governing the bloc’s market, including Jos Delbeke and Peter Zapfel in Brussels, have “not lost the plot,” Derwent said. “They were and remain heroes. Their ability to prevail over other directorates-general is weakened substantially.” …
    He (Derwent) urged carbon traders to see beyond current prices, which reached a record low last month. “Look further up the road. Don’t look at your feet.”
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-04/carbon-market-lobbyist-criticizes-whopping-falsehoods-.html


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Andrew McRae

    The Climate Commission are a bunch of patsies set up as a distraction. You know if you want to stop this carbon tax that the Chief Climate Commissioner can’t do that even if Flannery could be turned. The government’s paymasters are just dangling a ball of string in front of your face and like a cat you scratch at it instinctively, never noticing the hand above that’s really in control.

    In my opinion, the party politics system ensures that democracy does not occur in Australia. It takes a policy of particularly ill conception and disastrous proportions to show this, which is why it doesn’t show more often.

    I can accept one possible counterargument: that the people really do have control over government policy and that the people are stupid and lazy to have let this happen. Tough choice. Oligarchy or stupidity.


    Report this

    00

  • #
    gordon

    I thought that Gillard had dictated that the Carbon Tax component would be clearly shown on all utility bills after July 1. Is this another one of her promises. Flannery must have a strong hide to appear in public, maybe “She who must be obeyed” has ordered him to do so and earn some of the extortionate amount of unearned salary he is receiving.


    Report this

    00

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      Timmy, come to me.

      Yes, Godmother?

      Timmy, there will come a time when I will call upon you to do me a service.

      Anything, Godmother, anything.


      Report this

      00

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Is this another one of her promises.

      Then, on her previous track record, you know it must be a lie


      Report this

      00

  • #
    markus

    I’m going.

    My question to The Commission is;

    Arctic sea ice extent is at or above 1975-2000 average, The April 2012 Bearing Sea ice extent is at record levels, the southern hemisphere did not warm appreciably in the last 15 years and is cooling. Australian is drought free with healthy rivers and lands.

    Why does the commission advocate for expensive emission minimisation and reduction policies when there has been no detrimental effects, and by observations, only beneficial effects for The Australian ecology and human health and well being?


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Speedy

    Morning all. The wise Professor has invested in riverside property on the Hawkesbury. What was he thinking during the recent floods? You know, the ones that would never happen?

    If the ABC was Relevant (Part 52)
    (The learned Professor)

    [Scene: A riverside mansion on the banks of the Hawkesbury River, which is running at full FLOOD. BRYAN walks up to JOHN, who is constructing a sandbag LEVEE at a PRODIGIOUS rate of KNOTS.]

    Bryan: Professor Tim Flannery?

    John: Yep.

    Bryan: The Australian Climate Commissioner?

    John: That’s me.

    Bryan: I was wondering if you’d like to provide us with some of your unique insights into the Australian climate?

    John: Kinda busy. [Heaves a sandbag onto the levee.]

    Bryan: Whether, for instance, you would consider that the south-eastern area of Australia is no longer in a state of semi-permanent drought?

    John: Don’t happen to sell flood insurance, do you?

    Bryan: No, why?

    John: Just developed a sudden interest.

    Bryan: You don’t have flood insurance already?

    John: No point, really. No rain, no floods.

    Bryan: In spite of the aqua pura running past your letterbox?

    John: That – that’s just an isolated, localised event.

    Bryan: Like Wagga Wagga?

    John: That’s localised as well.

    Bryan: Like the better part of the south-eastern Australia?

    John: Yep – it’s just an isolated, localised event over a bloody big area.

    Bryan: But would you agree that whatever rainfall we’ve had has make its way into the dams and river systems? As opposed to being absorbed by a hot, dry earth resulting from global warming?

    John: Irrelevant. I’ll bet that this rainfall isn’t even official.

    Bryan: Official?

    John: Has it been peer reviewed ? Has it been approved by a consensus of climate scientists? Has it been computer modeled? I’ll tell you – no!

    Bryan: !!!

    John: And even if it were computer modeled, the models would clearly demonstrate that these flood waters [indicates river] are incontrovertible evidence of global warming and mankind’s adverse influence on the climate.

    Bryan: Are you sure?

    John: Bryan. When shit happens, it’s global warming. Always.

    Bryan: And when does global warming cause both drought AND flood?

    John: Whenever I say so, Bryan.


    Report this

    00

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      that’s a master stroke Speedy.
      Flannery’s Flood wasn’t peer reviewed by Nature! :D

      Perhaps the Clergyman of Climate Change isn’t as tight with Gaia as he thought. He should lie down facing Kyoto and repeat AlGore Akbar! AlGore Akbar! A few Hail Hansens before bed is not going to cut it this time!

      I bought a surge protector recently which claimed to offer a $50,000 connected equipment warranty if it failed its duty. That got me thinking… What if the government institutes this massive carbon taxation bureaucracy and… the climate still changes! The perverse terms of the surge protector warranty gave me a clue as to how the Climate Change Commission will evade responsibility for this outcome:
          WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER ACTS OF GOD.

      You’ve gotta read the fine print…


      Report this

      00

      • #
        Albert

        People know that an inquiry is held only if the results are known. I expected this with the Flood Inquiry, what a waste of money.


        Report this

        00

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        You’ve gotta read the fine print…

        You’ve gotta see the movie, “The Man Who Sued God”. A classic, staring Billy Connolly, no less, and set in Australia, to boot.


        Report this

        00

  • #
    Hesperian

    Question to Prof. Flummery:

    Sir, what are your career plans after the next general election?


    Report this

    00

  • #
    incoherent rambler

    My question:

    “On what grounds do you expect to escape prosecution for fraud, deceptive financial advantage etc etc ?”


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Speedy

    Dear Tim

    How have you justified your $180k salary for your part time job?

    Does working only 3 days a week mean you can tell the truth for the other 4?

    Cheers,

    Speedy


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Jon

    Economic growth and a larger/richer middle class have forced the socialist to move toward the “middle” in order to get public support or stay in office.

    And that is why they have to get rid of the middle class (radical change of society) in order to both move back to the left and stay in office.

    If the middle class is awaken from its complacency the plot will be stopped and the socialists will be out of office for a long long time.


    Report this

    00

  • #
    KeithH

    Aided by incorrect predictions from the CSIRO, David Karoly and others, you brainwashed Queensland Labor State Premier Peter Beattie and the QLP into building an expensive desalination plant based on your unscientific alarmist predictions of endless drought, soil so hot there’d be no run off even if there was rain and Brisbane running out of water sooner than later.

    Do you accept responsibility for the massive waste of time, mpney and resources in building such a “white elephant” and also for your part in the disastrous flooding of Brisbane because the authorities were too frightened by your “drought” predictions to release excess water in time, which would have lessened the damage and loss of life which ensued?


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Albert

    I don’t need to pay to hear Tim Flannery’s mantra, ”the (Government paid) scientists tell us it’s happening and it’s real”.
    ALL of Flannery’s predictions have been proved wrong and alarmist and the real scientists say the science is not settled.
    We are living well within all known climate extremes of the last century, there is nothing new under the sun.

    The audience will be stacked with left-leaning climate scientists.
    This show is an attempt to make us feel good about the carbon tax, just a few weeks away.
    It would be better if no one attended.


    Report this

    00

    • #
      Tim

      Strange that Bob Brown stepped down just as his brainchild-tax was to be released to a public. He won’t have to reap the public whirlwind. Good onya Bob, Tim Tam’s the one.


      Report this

      00

  • #
    dave ward

    The Climate Commission provides independent, authoritative information on climate change to the Australian public.

    So which OTHER independent organisations will also be present (purely in the interests of fairness and balance).


    Report this

    00

  • #
    old44

    10 to 1 on says all tickets were allocated before the announcement.


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Rod

    Flammery has a look that the average person is likely to associate with the friendly schoolmaster, maybe in a recreation of an episode of some old american mini series or movie. I give him about 2.3 points and might well consider that he might be right for a part at some time in the future.

    I would suggest that for the time being that he continues in the pursuit of his acting career and that if we have any need to contact him we will do so.


    Report this

    10

  • #
    Speedy

    Evening All…

    Owing to an unexpected vacancy, the Australian Government is seeking applications for the position of

    Climate Commissionaire.

    The Role: Candidates for this position will display an


    Report this

    10

  • #
  • #
    Angry

    Flannery admits no gain from this carbon tax pain………

    Flannery: Just let me finish and say this. If the world as a whole cut all emissions tomorrow the average temperature of the planet is not going to drop in several hundred years, perhaps as much as 1000 years

    Bolt: That doesn’t seem a good deal … So you don’t know about Australia, (but) you wouldn’t dispute that it’s within about a thousandth of a degree, around that magnitude, right?

    Flannery: It’s going to be slight.

    MORE HERE:-

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_flannery_admits_no_gain_from_this_carbon_tax_pain

    What an absolute joke this flannery character is !


    Report this

    10

    • #
      Albert

      Flannery was caught off guard and admitted that the temperature won’t drop for a thousand years.
      He has never repeated that statement, he obviously received instructions from above.


      Report this

      10

  • #
    Angry

    Very important questions for Flannery…….

    1.Who decided that a Carbon Tax should be imposed.
    2.What is the reason for a Carbon Tax being imposed.
    3.Will the Carbon Tax reduce Global Warming.
    4.What affect will the Carbon Tax have on climate change.
    5.How much revenue will be raised by the Carbon Tax.
    6.Does Carbon cause pollution.
    7.How many jobs will be lost due to the Carbon Tax.
    etc.etc.


    Report this

    20

  • #
    Combover Soul

    All this erudite stuff…pfff…the fact of the matter is, It’s Flannery’s heartbreakingly, achingly fake hat that’s the giveaway…it’s such a prop. Like a baby farting he knows no shame…


    Report this

    20