Imagine you built hundreds of wind turbines off your coast and then found out they reflect the signals used by your air defense radar?
It turns out that large rotating blades reflect radar pulses rather like planes do, and with future offshore wind turbines as tall as the Eiffel Tower and 1,000 feet wide, things are only getting worse.
RAF pilots already use the turbines to help them hide in training exercises.
The UK government has quietly spent £18m to try to figure out how to stop this and the best they have come up with is coating the blades in the type of paint used on stealth fighter jets. But the paint on F-22 jets peels off a bit too often, so they are considering something like the new ceramic paint from the F-35 program. But since that’s a top military secret, presumably it won’t be too similar. What could possibly go wrong? Since you asked, last year, after just six months on aircraft carriers, the F-35s were already looking kind of rusty.
Just drive a truckload of money to your local wind subsidy farm. Other plans include adding cameras, microphones, and radio aerials to turbines to detect hostile jets or perhaps some naughty boats and subs.
The German military have asked to be able to veto any wind development within 50 kilometers of their military radars. And given that it has 18 radars that could rule out a significant part of the German coast. The wind industry is not happy.
Imagine you bet your national economy on building thousands more of these by the end of the decade.
Thanks to Oldbrew at Tallblokes:
How wind turbines are blinding the RAF’s vital North Sea radars
By Gareth Corfield, The Telegraph
Offshore wind farms blades interfere with radar signals and there are concerns that plans for a significant expansion of turbines in the North Sea by the end of the decade will cause problems for the Royal Air Force (RAF).
Dangers in the North Sea are more than theoretical: a “ghost fleet” of Russian ships were spotted mapping communication and power cables in the area earlier this year, sparking fears that the Kremlin is preparing for a campaign of sabotage.
Some planned wind arrays are 20 miles wide.
A serving RAF officer explains: “If you have three blades on one turbine, that’s three false reflections. Imagine you then put up 10 or 20 turbines.”
Former RAF Tornado instructor Tim Davies recalls using offshore turbines to hide from ‘enemy’ fighter jets during training exercises.
“We used to fly into wind farms and rapidly change direction, knowing that their radar would struggle to see us,” he says.
Just one more reason China and Russia are encouraging the West to build fields of giant industrial wind plants in the ocean.
Photos: Top wind farm (Rhyl Flats) Andy Dingley; RAF Fighter jets photo by Steve Richardson; Gwynt y Mor wind farm, Steve Daniels.
Interference with radar from wind subsidy plantations has been known about and recognised as a problem since at least 2011.
There are numerous references, e.g.:
Wind subsidy farms potentially kill far more than birds, bats, insects, marine life, economies and cause misery to huge numbers of people through shadow flicker and infrasound etc..
Sooner or later they will cause an aircraft crash or allow an enemy invasion.
How ironic that radar has protected the coast of Britain fron invasion since the National Socialists wanted to invade and now another form of socialism is destroying Once Great Britain.
But don’t worry, it’s all sacrifices for the green god Gaia and for Chairman Xi and all the subsidy harvesting parasites among the Leftist Elites.
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The military should play safe (ie, the cautionary principle that the climate activists are so keen on): shoot down every movement showing up on the radar screen. Incidentally, it would be cheaper than going on paying subsidies for more and more of the ‘enemy’.
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A problem thats always been known about in the RAF and debated since 1990s. In 2002 they started putting up turbines in the Moray Firth (Nth Scotland) The base at RAF Lossiemouth objected due to the radar interference .The RAF was overuled and the turbines started going up. For over 20yrs the RAF has been told to shut up by the Govt and the turbines keep going up. I know because I was involved in the complaints as i was in the RAF then, and serving as Strike Command Flight Safety Inspector. Defence and flight training and safety objections were all overuled by Govt.
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I have actually worked to develop radar absorbing materials. Most applied materials are indeed expensive and high maintenance as Jo alludes to. Imagine having to repaint the blades every six months or so, especially maritime installations.
They can also likely alter the blade aerodynamics somewhat (due to their thickness).
More subsidies will have to be harvested from taxpayers and/or consumers to pay for it.
In any case, even if radar reflections are mitigated, the wind plantation will still minimise the ability of radar seeing what’s behind it.
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Might even minimise the ability of RAF Tornado doppler radar to see what’s in front of it.
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Also good for our enemies because it is so easy to destroy the cables.
Obviously they are effectively undefendable.
But that doesn’t stop the government wasting money putting on a show of trying.
https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/uk-buys-ship-to-protect-subsea-fiber-and-power-cables/
Another massive cost of net zero policies that will never be accounted, but the tax/ bill payer will still have to pay for it.
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O thOse intermittant wind turbines…unreliable, unecOnOmic and undefendable.
NOt a lOt gOing fOr them.
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Wow Jo, you sure keep your finger on the pulse of all things wind and green. Reading the above makes me really wonder, does the west really have a death wish? So many countries would be so much better off and far more efficient with the latest coal technology or new generation nuclear. Here we have an abundance of the best coal, best uranium and the dimmest leaders in the west. Many of us are totally cynical about net zero when all we are doing is paying China to become richer and give off more and more pollution. We then buy their destructive rubbish to eventually impoverish ourselves. Weird really!
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Absolutely!
Best said by Gad Saad in his recent under 2 min video:
https://youtu.be/aYolXVwRWZ4
“The Suicidal Demise of the West….”
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And to think that if they had replaced the old power stations with new 24/7 HELE power plants none of this would be necessary and the consumers would be left with affordable and reliable electricity. Those pseudo scientists and the scum bags at the UN have caused untold damage to the Western world but strangely enough have handsomely benefited China. We have been betrayed by those we should be able to trust.
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Better than that. Give the old power stations a grease and oil change and a new coat of paint and send them back to work for another 50 years.
The AGW story is a scam. Don’t forget it.
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Are there actually any arguments in favour of Wind Farms?
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Only from those who harvest the subsidies in various forms. For them, they are a license to print money and a government guaranteed monopoly.
There are no legitimate scientific or engineering arguments in favour of them.
That’s why they were rapidly abandoned after 1712 when Newcomen developed the first commercially viable steam engine.
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Actually David, wind was abandoned about 40 years before Newcomen in areas were there were big tides e.g. Brittany.
With tidal movements up to 14 metres it was simpler to collect high tides behind floodgates and release it to power mills.
The millers were pleased to adopt the method as tides were regular and occurred every day, so millers (apart from some adjusting hours) could get reliable and full power regularly.
There were at least a 100 tide mills in the late 1600’s in Brittany.
That’s why the Rance estuary tidal power station was built there in the 1970’s
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Why is there only one?
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The UK tried to harness tidal power at Swansea, which apparently has a high tidal range. A total failure. And Australia’s attempt at Derby WA was also a failure.
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There is a vast difference between the tidal systems of the 1600s and the modern failed ones. The earlier models captured tidal water and when released it turned a water wheel to provide mechanical power. The modern failures are just anchored in a high tide area and supposed to generate electricity as they move up and down. The fact that they are abandoned not long after the grant comes through tells you all you need to know about there effectiveness.
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You are correct in as much the success of the old mills was because they turned a wheel. Britain has looked a number of times at Tidal generation but I think it would be fair to say that wind farms managed to grab all the research and subsidies.
The basic problem with tides is that there are nowhere near as many suitable sites as might be thought.
Planners have to take into account the tidal range, navigation, leisure activities, wildlife and impact on local communities and by definition as sites are likely to be remote, the means to get the power to the users.
The sea is also a VERY harsh environment what with corrosion and storms so estuaries would be the preferred location which cuts down availability even further.
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Ted1:
It cost a lot to install. It lead to environmental damage to the estuary and WORSE it didn’t make enough electricity to pay for itself.
When I was in Brittany in 2016 I thought of visiting the Rance station but was talked out of it by a fellow boat passenger, a left wing playwright (but originally graduated as an Engineer). He said it was troubled by seaweed entangling the turbines, which restricted it use to only one tide a day.
The other comment was that in 1977 when I was in Orkney I was looking at the waves rolling into the cliffs from the Atlantic. As I moved back from the cliff, a local cautioned me about standing too close as the cliff ocassionally collapsed. He refered to an academic visitor a while ago (about 12-18 months ASAIS recall). The academic had an idea of building tunnels inside the cliffs so that the waves rushing it pushed air up them (through a turbine) and again as they retreated. He asked whether the rocks at the base of the cliff were protected etc. and was told NO. That’s the last cliff collapse last year. The local said that he hadn’t heard any more of that GREEN idea.
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Are our OECD leaders taking a steady diet of stupid pills every day?
The REAL world data tells us that we are about to WASTE TRILLIONS of $ on their TOXIC W & S disasters for decades and just to weaken our countries even further, yet nobody seems to understand?
And the co2 emissions from the NON OECD countries have increased co2 levels from about 350 ppm in 1988 to about 420 ppm in 2023.
So will we also stuff up our radar capabilities and WRECK our environment just to please the Banks, Super funds, left wing extremists etc?
Of course we’ll have no impact on weather, temperature by 2050 at all but I suppose they’ll be happy if we can no longer defend ourselves?
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No stupid pills required. It’s pure natural talent.
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I never truly believed I would live in such a self destructive era as the false renewables delusion. Historians will look back at this time and question the collective insanity of those who pushed the religious belief system, and wonder why the rational amongst us were unable to stop it.
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Only if the adversary is not victorious.
If they win, they write the history.
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Just about everything we need to know about the future has been foreseen by George Orwell in Nineteen Eighty Four.
That is the operation manual of the Left and it WILL happen (in full) if conservatives and fellow rational thinkers remain silent and let the Left have their way.
The Left have never been more powerful in the West than now (except the National Socialists in WW2) and we have little time remaining.
How valid are these quotes even today?
I can think of present day examples of just about all of these things.
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One copy of the remastered 1984 for DM for Xmas, coming right up!
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“Just about everything we need to know about the future has been foreseen by George Orwell in Nineteen Eighty Four.”
and, Merrie England 2000 by Colin Jordan
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Only thing Orwell left out was that “Every temperature has been homogenised”.
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On top of all of the problems caused by these industrial scale wind turbines, we have interference with weather radar in Ontario.
https://savethehuronmountains.org/2018/09/14/overview-of-wind-turbine-interference-with-weather-radar/
Farmers rely on accurate weather reports.
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In the rush to stuff up our ability to defend ourselves we should pause to consider the Sun’s role in any climate change and the Ocean and wind as well. Here’s some points from Javier Vinos’ new book.
“These findings lead to three controversial and far-reaching conclusions about climate change”:
“Atmospheric circulation is primarily responsible for heat transport on a global scale, either directly or through its influence on oceanic transport”.
“Atmospheric and oceanic heat transport cannot compensate for each other. Since they are fundamentally linked by wind action, any change in one must be accompanied by a change in the other in the same direction. Consequently, changes in the amount of heat transported poleward are not only possible but inevitable”.
“Variability in global heat transport must occur on the decadal timescales typical of atmospheric and upper ocean variability, rather than the centennial or longer timescales characteristic of deep meridional overturning”.
https://judithcurry.com/2023/11/04/solving-the-climate-puzzle-the-suns-surprising-role/#more-30665
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Thank you Neville.
Have ordered Javier Vinos’s new book.
His first was a blockbuster.
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Side note:
I love it when two factions of the Left start fighting each other over what is more woke.
In this case a wind subsidy plantation vs supposed Aboriginal heritage claims.
Decisions, decisions. Which money trail leads to the biggest pot of gold?
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I’m waiting for the bunfight when “they” try to go offshore in the GBR Marine Park. Getting approval to dredge Abbot Point was well nigh impossible.
BTW what an old photo of the aircraft. The Vulcan bomber and Hunter fighters were 1950s era designs. The Vulcan last flew 40 years ago.
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The middle picture looks like one of a display by the Red Arrows aerobatic team plus old Vulcan. The team had various types over the years but I don’t know what they fly atm. They normally have 9 aircraft in the team.
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There is a Vulcan and a bunch of BAe Hawks in that picture.
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“federal environment minister Sussan Ley”. I wish.
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Australia has no nuclear weapons – China could take the place over in a day. One nuke on Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, Canberra, Perth and Melbourne and it’s over.
What will Australians do, throw kangaroos at them?
Sorry to say, but you have declared yourself a gun free and nuke free zone. Who do you think sees that as an inducement?
Radar is a side show of no relevance.
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If bombing cities won wars, the Normandy landings on D Day would not have been needed. Where would China land? remember the reversal Japan got when they tried to sail around PNG with an invasion force. That might be even harder today.
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The invading Chinese will be asphyxiate by the smoke from the WELCOME to THE COUNTRY ceremony.
They are use to gum trees nor their smoke.
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Surely they would not even think of invading until after their “Welcome to Country Ceremony”. Australia’s first scientists will be their pointing a bone at them.
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Pointing the bone would be a damn site more effective than the American crap we are forced to buy.
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Hmmm ?….it seemed to be pretty effective on Japan !
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The Art of War is worth a read. Why destroy what you desire when you can receive it as a gift?
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Even though it sounds like something Sun Tzu might have said, the following is attributed to Napolean Bonaparte and is being closely followed by the Chinese with respect to Australia and other woke Western countries:
“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”
Original: “Quand l’ennemi fait un faux mouvement , il faut se garder de l’interrompre”, “When the enemy makes a false move, take care not to interrupt him.” [As written by Baron Antoine-Henri Jomini, Vie politique et militaire de Napoléon, 1827.]
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No guns, no crossbows, no slingshots, no fireworks, loads of different knives, a myriad of other products, and no replicas either.
Gotta think of kids safety! Protect our kids!
And forget about diet, lgbtqZzzz, predators, vaxxes, phone addiction, mental health, drugs…Ssshhh…
Maybe trebuchets, pointed sticks and frenchmen in towers shouting insults to repel invaders?
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I dont think the current height of Wind turbine over water would pose a major problem. We don’t have any coastal radars that would be affected our major radar system is the OTHR and I don’t think it would be affected.
Weather Radar will be more affected because they use Doppler as opposed to a primary return type of radar
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OTHR is a pipe dream, the idea is 60 yrs old.
Read up on “tiles”. The problem is as if a coast watcher had this most incredible pair of binoculars that would allow him to see an aircraft at 100 miles, long before he could hear it. What are the odds that he WOULD see it? Very low, even the slightest deviation left/right, up/down would mean a miss. Primary radar is only highly directional in the azimuth, not elevation.
Windmills would also effect airborne radar, greatly magnifying surface clutter, giving approaching aircraft a big area in which to hide.
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pipe dream really? for example you can tell if a helicopter has 3 or 4 blades from 1000’s of K’s away and you call it a pipe dream……
OTHR dont use tiles
Primary radar can give alevation as well as azimuth…wrong again
Why would a wind mill affect an airborne radar mate? What do you use an airborne radar for? to look at the ground? no wrong again.
You have no idea what you are talking about so stop…please just stop
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Lies about wind plantations.
-They produce usable power (needs a lot of management, and backup from fewer and fewer power stations).
-Cheaper than power stations (strangely, the more we get, the more expensive electricity becomes).
-More reliable than power stations (only works about 30% of the time, not counting maintenance downtime).
-Good for the environment (obviously not).
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The law of Unintended Consequences.
All done righteously in the name of saving the planet.
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That’s only what they tell the useful idiots.
Their Elite masters know exactly what they’re doing.
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These towers are an ugly eyesore because they reflect most of the visible spectrum. Maybe they could be coated with Vantablack paint which is a carbon nano-tubule black paint that absorbs exceptionally high levels of visible light. Wouldn’t help the whales, birds or do much radar-wise, but at least we would see a lot less of these ugly towers.
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Don’t you just love how “top secret” stuff is in every major news source. 😄
(Except for the stuff that’s not, the REALLY interesting stuff 😉)
It’s in its infancy and even NC State U have only made a handful of it, and couldn’t AFFORD to produce more.
Should add $$$$$ to each turbine blade cost.
A bit more info:
It’s a novel high-temperature microwave-absorbing ceramic composites made of polymer-derived SiOC ceramic and in situ partially surface-oxidized ultra-high-temperature ceramic (UHTC) ZrB2 nanoparticles. The fabricated composites with a normalized weight fraction of ZrB2 nanoparticles at 40% has a significantly wide microwave absorption bandwidth of 13.5 GHz (26.5–40 GHz) covering the entire Ka-band. This is attributed to the extensive nanointerfaces introduced in the composites, attenuation induced by the interference of electromagnetic wave, attenuation from the formed current loops, and the electronic conduction loss provided by the partially surface-oxidized ZrB2 nanoparticles. The minimum reflection coefficient (RC) was −29.30 dB at 29.47 GHz for a thickness of 1.26 mm for the composites with a normalized weight fraction of ZrB2 nanoparticles at 32.5%. The direct current (dc) conductivity of the nanocomposites showed a clear percolation phenomenon as the normalized weight fraction of ZrB2 nanoparticles increases to 30.49%.
It absorbs over 90% of incident radar making planes almost invisible.
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A number of times I’ve watched Airtractors spraying crops in the same paddocks as wind turbines. Luckily , because aerial spraying favours cross winds the turbine blades have aligned themselves the same direction of the flight path. The blades are also a bit higher than flightpath as well. I asked an operator one day if it was scary doing this feat. No biggie, he said , just the same as dodging big trees and power lines.
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A reminder that it was the old Left, National Socialists that started the wind and hydrogen insanity.
The modern Left are just taking over where they Left off.
See http://en.friends-against-wind.org/realities/how-renewables-and-the-global-warming-industry-are-literally-hitler
The National Socialists even use exactly the same arguments as the modern Left.
Also see Rupert Darwall, Green Tyranny: Exposing the Totalitarian Roots of the Climate Industrial Complex (2019).
Oh, and of which Führer was it said:
Who promotes vegetarianism and tells us meat is bad for the planet today?
History is repeating itself.
Same evil, different uniforms. (It’s not Hugo Boss this time.)
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And Australia’s biggest offshore wind installation is planned for directly off the coast beside our primary east coast RAAF fighter base. If they can sneak up on Williamtown, they can take out all our fighters and Amberley and Garbutt become defenceless.
No wonder Xi is smiling every time we see him with Albo.
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Xi’s is thinking of Albo, “stupid gweilo” and Albo thinks Xi actually likes him. Pathetic insecure man that Albo. He is also a quisling.
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Am I hearing echos of “Peace in our time” from someone in China?
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So. You think someone could sneak up on an east coast city because of near shore radar problems?
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They have- Chinese submarine into Sydney harbour.
Then they bought up heaps of infant formula, and shipped it out…
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err. Yeah, fun story.
How far in the sky were they flying?
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It’s extraordinary that Scott Morrison invited them here.
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Actually, yes, even if the radar was working.
But with advancing detection technologies, ALL submarines will be detectable in a decade, but by then it won’t matter.
That’ll be $100 GA for doing the job of a search engine.
How would you like to pay? 😆
Maybe I’ll develop an app that can give electric shocks to people who post silliness.
I’ll make a fortune! 😎
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Heard of MAD?
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Also you missed this ” because of near shore radar problems”.
Can you confirm whether or not you understand that I did not write that someone could not sneak up on an east coast city in other ways, although I’d be interested to know how an invasion force could do so.
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The only aircraft based at Garbutt are Army helicopters, about to be enlarged with the new Blackhawks, it is assumed, but a couple of FA18s just flew over my house. They’ll be bombing Rattlesnake Is. by the end of the week I suppose.
I think this is the last of their conversion training. When this is over the pilots will go to an operational squadron. I have great admiration of fighter pilots, it is such a demanding job.
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Gradually the pilots are getting replaced by robots … which are faster, cheaper, and you don’t need to knock on the door of the family either.
No future invasion force will start their attack on Australia with fighter aircraft hitting our military bases. Even the most casual glance at what’s happening in Easter Europe would tell you that modern warfare is now driven by cryise missiles, drones, and various things in between … at least that’s what the tip of the spear looks like.
The aircraft have mostly become stand-off missile launch platforms, that get the heck out of there at the first sign of trouble because they are too valuable to lose. No air marshal is going to allow his fighters to dodge in and out of windmill blades … but they very likely could use the wind farm as a way to get the cruise missiles past the onshore air defence.
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Here’s another few thoughts on painting the blades with radar absorbing paint.
How much extra weight from the coating on the blades?
How much extra stress on the bearings?
How sooner would replacement on said bearing be from the extra stress?
What other non intended conscience’s could happen from this thought bubble?
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It doesn’t matter whether or not A35s get rusty or not. The only thing those planes are good for is siphoning money from Australia to the USA.
(With more to follow for those damned submarine which we won’t really control.)
But we’re not allowed to buy the really good ones (Sukhoi and Mig) or the pretty good ones (Gripen and Rafale) so we just have to work at keeping Indonesia friendly.
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Incidentally, Jo, enjoy your freedom of speech while you’ve still got it. You are probably on someone’s list of promoters of “hate speech” already, but if the new laws go through you will be silenced for “disinformation”.
https://www.rt.com/news/586569-free-speech-democracy-australia/
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