JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Fully vaccinated can be just as infectious as unvaxed (What’s the point of a Vax Passport?)

These first generation vaccinations are not the Get-Out-Of-Pandemic Card some politicians dream of

What a can of nematodes

Fully-vaccinated people who catch Delta Covid variant really may be JUST as infectious as the un-jabbed, Government figures suggest

Emily Craig, Daily Mail

Public Health England say viral loads appear similar among people infected with the Delta variant in both groups, meaning, theoretically, they are equally contagious.

But health chiefs insisted the current crop of vaccines still cut the risk of catching the virus in the first place.

Vaccinated people may be less likely to catch Covid (at least for a few months until it wears off) but when vaccinated people do get infected the viral loads are pretty much the same as when unvaccinated people do. In other words, fully vaccinated people can still be dangerous to the people around them. And if they fly in without quarantine, they can bring outbreaks and new mutants too. So much for the freedom jabs. Though, in fairness, at the moment, they still offer some freedom from hospital, just not freedom from masks, quarantines, and restrictions.

Vaccination clearly isn’t going to stop the spread, eliminate the virus, or do a lot to protect your loved ones or work colleagues. It makes it hard for companies to justify mandatory vaccination “for the greater good”. The question, “Would you sit next to an unvaccinated person” isn’t quite the loaded probe it was. And you can always reply: “Would you work with someone who was Vitamin D Deficient“? I mean really, they are defenceless.

When will companies set up mass Vitamin D testing and free supplements?

A couple of weeks ago the Israeli data suggested only 16% of people were still protected from infection six months after vaccination. Presumably Governments will argue that vaccines still reduce the burden on the health care system but new mutations may render that moot too.

The lines that matter in the graph below are the three in the bottom right. That’s the viral loads of the vaccinated, and unvaccinated, with Delta variant. The lines trailing up on the right are probably the last vestiges of the old alpha (UK) variant which only exists anymore in long recovering patients with low viral loads.

CT values, PCR test, vaccinated, unvaccinated.

The graph shows the Ct values for people who catch the Alpha variant (called SGTF, shown in orange, red and brown) compared to those who catch the Delta variant (called All3P, shown in blue, green and purple). Ct values reflect the amount of the virus found in people’s positive nose and throat swabs, with higher numbers equating to lower levels of the virus. Public Health England compared levels between unvaccinated people, those who have had one dose and those who are double jabbed. It found that Ct values were almost identical, regardless of a person’s immunisation status

Being low on this graph is bad (for us, if not for viruses). The lower the Ct value, the higher the viral load. When there is hardly any virus (or fragments thereof) it takes a lot more cycles to detect and so has a higher Ct value.

NHS Test and Trace data – published in the PHE report – showed daily average Ct values for unvaccinated people who caught the Delta strain was 17.8.

Meanwhile, it was only slightly higher for fully-vaccinated Brits (18).

There are qualifiers, but it is an act of some optimism: We don’t know if the ages of both groups were the same, and if the vaccinated group were older they might have lower viral loads than unvaccinated people their own age. We need to follow both groups through their infections as they progress to know what the real peak is. These groups may have got tested as different points on the curve.

But the figures are similar to the US findings and the US CDC said “wear your masks” to the vaccinated:

The report follows similar findings by the CDC, which last week released figures showing unvaccinated and double-jabbed Americans had very similar viral loads.

The research led them to U-turn on mask advice and recommend fully- vaccinated Americans wear coverings indoors again.

The PCR test picks up fragments of the virus, not whole virus, and viable virions are usually much lower in number but that probably applies to both groups equally.

Delta Variant is the Indian variant. The Alpha variant is the UK strain.

REFERENCE

Public Health of England : technical briefing (pdf) published on Aug. 6, PHE

9.5 out of 10 based on 89 ratings

585 comments to Fully vaccinated can be just as infectious as unvaxed (What’s the point of a Vax Passport?)

  • #

    Jo

    I saw this and was going to send it to you.

    My take through reading a number of stories over the last few weeks and seeing the effects of vaccination in the UK is that

    It probably substantially reduces the risk of you being badly infected
    It definitely reduces the effects of the virus, limiting its effects
    It doesn’t reduce the risk of you infecting others with the caveat the figures are probably slewed as the vaccinated believe they are protected and take more chances than is wise.

    After receiving my first vaccination back in February there were a noticeable number of people saying they were going straight out to meet their grandchildren. So social mobility and rish taking is much higjercthan it need be.

    Personally I steer clear of indoor crowds and wouldn’t go to the theatre.if I meet someone indoors I like to have the windows open and would prefer to eat at an outdoor restaurant. Many vaccinatedc people however will do everything as ‘normal’ pre pandemic so are still infecting others, getting infected themselves but mostly not getting too I’ll.

    If people were more cautious I think we would see a change in those stats.

    1815

    • #

      This latest study confirms what I write in my post above. The headline says it all

      https://dailysceptic.org/2021/08/06/devastating-new-data-from-phe-shows-vaccine-effectiveness-down-to-17-and-no-reduction-in-infectiousness-but-mortality-cut-by-77/

      Difficult to see the justification for vaccine passports if there is little difference as to the infectious ness of vaccinated and unvaccinated

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      • #
        David A

        Consider that a vaccinated person with suppressed symptoms may be more likely to ignore the reduced symptom, and a host of other problems…
        https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3682671

        The vaccines make things worse. Many areas over the past few weeks are showing equal hospitalizations, vaccinated vs not vaccinated, adjusted for percentage with the vaccines.

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        • #
          Tilba Tilba

          The vaccines make things worse.

          However the CDC published figures for the 25 US states where the data is collected, showing that cases are among the unvaccinated (around 95-98% from memory), and that hospitalisation / deaths among the vaccinated are a very tiny percentage – under 0.1%. And these figures cannot show how many people who are vaccinated have avoided catching the virus at all.

          So it seems to me the argument for being vaccinated is sound, especially with the high infection rate of the Delta Variant.

          I agree that the “Vaccine Passport” has a problematic rationale to it, and is far more about incentivising people to get vaccinated, than reducing the rate of transmission across the community. But it still seems the case that vaccination, mask-wearing, sensible social-distancing, and a ban on crowded venues – would seem to be the best strategy.

          Regular lockdowns to reduce cases to “zero” – I have concerns about that as a strategy. For one thing, the people who make these decisions do not lose one dollar of income, whereas their decisions have the highest impact on a wide range of private-sector and low-wage | casual-wage cohorts.

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          • #
            OriginalSteve

            The CDC have stopped testing the vaccinated except for severe cases, so it just aids the persecution of the sensibly unvaxxed people.

            If anyone has read the Banjo Paterson story of “The Loaded Dog”, I think the vaccinated are acting in a similar way….mobile super spreaders that creates then justifies permanent lockdowns for a virus that in reality is pretty harmless.

            The vaccines are pure evil. They very likely knew exactly what would happen.

            Bad stuff coming….

            493

            • #
              Old Cocky

              Henry Lawson

              150

            • #
              Binny Pegler

              I think the main reason government are so keen on incentivising people to get vaccinated.
              Is so they can declare a victory and go home.
              Admitting the lock downs went over the top, is political suicided.

              210

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                I think they have the bull by the tail and cant let go….

                190

              • #
                Lucky

                He who rides a tiger
                Dare not dismount.

                130

              • #
                Patrick healy

                Bunny,
                “The main reason governments are so keen……’ do you mean “The main reason governments are so corrupt….”
                Is because they are? See Joe’s piece above about big pharma lobbying.
                I cannot believe how gullible folk on here are in accepting these gene therapies disguised as vaccines. Repeat after me They are not vaccines.

                60

            • #
              Analitik

              The CDC have stopped testing the vaccinated

              Have they? I just thought that they reduced the cycle threshold from 40+ down to 28 for those who have had the shot (to achieve the reduction you imply)

              110

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                my full statement included “…except for severe cases”.

                So either way, it creates a witch hunt of the unvaxxed.

                70

              • #
                Analitik

                But they haven’t stopped testing the “vaccinated” – they shifted the definition of a “case” to those that actually have relevant viral loads but that isn’t not testing.

                It actually helps their narrative to test the “vaccinated” with the stricter criteria as they can then give people like Rick Will numbers that suggest vastly lower infection rates for the “vaccinated”

                103

          • #
            Binny Pegler

            If the risk of death doesn’t incentivise people to get vaccinated, what will?

            324

          • #
            shortie of greenbank

            most of these studies are done on VAERS reports vs total reported vaccinated. For example one of the pro-vaccine CDC documents supported that the vaccines actually improved other health outcomes, unless you know the slightest amount about normal health outcomes and how little is actually reported. VAERS only received normally between 1- 10% of actual ‘events’ including death.

            Now to look into one such metric claimed was miscarriage. It was claimed to be 12% of the total vaccinated population while the ‘background’ rate was 26%, except it isn’t as the real rate is 10% (roughly) and the 26% was in the general populace during that period. Now with birth failure there are plenty of reports of non-reporting, especially of late term miscarriage which is normally called still birth but many of these were more consistent with miscarriage. The numbers I have seen mentioned of birth failure after ‘vaccination’ with the MRNA ‘vaccines’ seem to be anywhere from 52-81%.

            50

          • #

            Hi Jo, please consider posting yourself. Yes, I took about 50 percent of the article.
            Please read it, along with a brief summary of the areas where the vaccine is failing like Israel, Iceland, that little nation with 200 percent of the population vaccinated, etc….

            What us best about the article is that it is written further layperson. Please consider a post on it.

            00

          • #
            Peter C

            I agree that the “Vaccine Passport” has a problematic rationale to it, and is far more about incentivising people to get vaccinated, than reducing the rate of transmission across the community. But it still seems the case that vaccination, mask-wearing, sensible social-distancing, and a ban on crowded venues – would seem to be the best strategy.

            Based on what? Ma Feelings.

            The only strategy that seems to have some logic to it is the crowded venues (maybe that includes social distancing).
            Mask wearing indoors I can live with.

            51

            • #
              sophocles

              The only strategy that seems to have some logic to it is the crowded venues (maybe that includes social distancing).
              Mask wearing indoors I can live with.

              There is one strategy you have continued to overlook. Jo repeatedly reminds us of it: Vitamin D3. It sure won’t be considered for a passport.
              I take 4000 IU/day over the darkest times of the year and I am still Covid-free. I don’t/won’t wear masks — they’re all made either for small faces or faces which are shaped too differently from mine. Whatever. I would also rather not keep re-breathing my CO2 excrement. I’m in and out of the local supermarkets three times a week for fresh milk (4 my tea) and other foods I run out of.

              I had a vitamin D3 test in the middle of July (about 4 weeks ago now). 221 nm/L. On the high side but as D3 is not toxic at those levels, I see nothing to worry about. But I know my level of immunity. I’ll get another one about October. In the mean time, I know I will pass through the Annual Sickness Season without a problem.

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              • #
                Peter C

                Thanks sophocles. I am aware if Vit D and take it every day but I have been conservative about dosage. Also I have not had a test.

                Your are taking 4000IU per day , which is higher than my 1000IU/day and your levels are far above the deficiency threshhold of20nmol/L.
                I would be happy with 40-50nmol/L as maintenance.

                20

    • #
      mwhite

      https://dailysceptic.org/2021/08/06/devastating-new-data-from-phe-shows-vaccine-effectiveness-down-to-17-and-no-reduction-in-infectiousness-but-mortality-cut-by-77/

      SARs COVID 19 – A seasonal respiratory, like colds and flu extremely common during the winter months.

      Vaccine 17% effective during high summer.

      41

    • #
      mwhite

      Vaccines cannot stop infection, their purpose is to prevent the progression of the disease.

      20

    • #
      Geoff Croker

      There is now plenty of data to show a SARS-2 mRNA vaccine does not lessen contagion. If the hospitalization rate falls for the vaccinated they may work by preventing an autoimmune response.

      This outcome for these mRNA vaccines may be VERY useful in treating other autoimmune conditions eg lung tissue fibrosis. Knowing why this works is worthy of research. There is irony here comparing the politics of ivermectin.

      For SARS-2, a vitamin cocktail may work just as well for preventing autoimmune inflammation via a mRNA vaccine.

      Inflammation caused by autoimmune reaction is why a SARS-2 sufferer has difficulty breathing, ends up in hospital on oxygen, treated with cortisone and as a last resort a ventilator.

      A comorbidity that triggers autoimmune reactions (high blood pressure, low D3, diabetes, obesity) may result in rapid inflammation. It may be too late for an anti-viral treatment at this point. Better for potential comorbidity candidates to take a prophylactic, eg HCQ, Ivermectin, a diet with exercise, assuming they don’t adversely affect their existing condition.

      41

  • #
    Saighdear

    Well, for those who follow UK soapish progs, etc :Piers Morgan unfortunately as I read tonight here: Vaccinated Piers Morgan Apparently Seriously Ill With Covid from https://principia-scientific.com/vaccinated-piers-morgan-apparently-seriously-ill-with-covid/

    but on a lighter note TO TAKE NOTE: Herb Rose said “Piers reminds me of a story from a veterinarian.
    A woman comes into his office and explains that she is going on a long car trip with her cat. The cat hates traveling in the car and she wanted something to calm it down. The vet said that it was no problem and he would give it a sedative. He gives the cat morphine and the woman goes on her trip. Later he remembers that morphine is not a sedative for cats but a stimulant. When the woman comes back he expects to get an ear full but instead the woman gushes with gratitude. She tells the vet the cat was absolutely wild during the trip and she couldn’t imagine what it would’ve been like without the shot.”
    Yes indeed, if we hadn’t sprayed the field with herbicide, imagine the bigger crop of weeds we would have seen, and there was the Dumb rich Farmer’s Combine-Driver-son who came to us complaining that his Combine wasn’t working properly: when he came to the End of the Row / Swath, the Rev Counter /Tacho kept speeding up higher than he had set it according to the book, when it was working under load. Try and bring yourself down to that level to explain to him how things work. something like the Push Button Start / Stop button.

    181

    • #

      I think the piers Morgan story illustrates what I write in #1

      Piers was reckless, believing himself to be immune to the virus and behaved very stupidly and over enthusiastically during the Euors and subsequent drink fuelled meetings

      96

  • #
    PeterS

    The point of a vaccination passport is to control the movement of people, just as in the case of a traditional passport. The only difference is it can be used locally to control the movement of people within Australia. Isn’t it obvious? It is to me. PM Morrison should make it illegal as it is unconstitutional under Commonwealth Law, but as we have come to learn he has gone over to the dark side just like the rest.

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    • #
      el gordo

      Morrison is aware of the legal problems involved and will keep his powder dry until he sees the whites of their eyes.

      416

      • #
        PeterS

        The only thing he is aware of is how well the globalist plan to strip away our freedoms is progressing so well. You are so out of touch of reality given the mountain of evidence posted by almost everywhere here it’s not even funny.

        452

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘ … globalist plan to strip away our freedoms …’

          That is delusional.

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          • #
            PeterS

            No, it’s real. Go back to sleep.

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            • #
              el gordo

              Back on topic.

              ‘Any association between smoking and COVID-19 severity cannot be generalized but should refer to the seemingly low proportion of smokers who develop severe COVID-19 that requires hospitalization.

              ‘Smokers should be advised to quit due to long-term health risks, but pharmaceutical nicotine or other nicotinic cholinergic agonists should be explored as potential therapeutic options, based on a recently presented hypothesis.’ (Farsalinos et al 2021)

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              • #
                PeterS

                Let’s get back to the real issue. I just proven in another post that the number of deaths due to the COVID-19 vaccines far outnumber the number that have allegedly died due to the virus itself using the government’s own Database of Adverse Event Notifications for Medicines. I dare you to prove me wrong.

                200

              • #
                Tilba Tilba

                Let’s get back to the real issue. I just proven in another post that the number of deaths due to the COVID-19 vaccines far outnumber the number that have allegedly died due to the virus itself

                There have been 632,000 recorded deaths from Covid-19 since the pandemic began. How many deaths have been attributed to the Covid-19 vaccines since vaccinations began?

                The real issue remains the same one: far more people who are not vaccinated are contracting the disease, suffering sufficiently badly to be hospitalised, and in fact dying. We are talking about high-90 percent range, not a small majority. The evidence seem pretty clear – the risks of remaining unvaccinated, especially in the context of the Delta Variant, are much higher than being vaccinated.

                130

              • #

                PeterS — even if the vaccines have led to more deaths in Australia than the virus, this is only because our hard border policy and rapid restrictions to limit spread have saved so many lives. If Australia had followed the same policy as the US and UK deaths might have been 50 times as much and in the order of 50,000 here, not 1,000.

                Sovereign borders save lives.

                Open borders (WHO’s favourite policy) kills people.

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              • #
                PeterS

                I just shown proof using government data that far more people here are dying from COVID-19 vaccines than from the virus itself. Prove me wrong. I welcome it. Look at the posts.

                232

              • #
                PeterS

                Jo, are you then saying it’s still safer to get the shots? According to the data that’s not true. As I said a long time ago I would consider taking the shots if the number of deaths associate to the virus was high. It’s no where near high enough to justify it, just as I never taken a flu virus for the exact same reason. The number of deaths in 2017 due to the flu are very similar to the deaths thus far due to COVID-19. I have a much great chance of being killed in a car accident. That doesn’t stop me from driving. I will take appropriate medicines and take the necessary precautions to avoid catching any virus, not just COVID-19, and for that matter any other disease. You follow?

                351

              • #
                el gordo

                The terrible flu of 2017 took many, it was a new variant and vaccination seemed to have failed. The world is in a pickle and Australia is adopting the Beijing model.

                ‘Zhengzhou, capital of Henan province, on Friday upgraded epidemic control measures after a recent resurgence of COVID-19 infections broke out in a local hospital.

                ‘Residents in the city’s medium- and high-risk areas for COVID-19 should be quarantined at home, and people in control areas should not leave their community compounds, according to a notice from the city’s epidemic prevention and control leading group.’ (China Daily)

                29

              • #
                Analitik

                Jo, the hard borders and earlier lockdowns bought time, at a huge cost, for the Delta variant to evolve. The mortality rate of this is far lower than the Alpha and we should be cashing in on the price we have already paid and use antiviral while we let this spread and achieve natural head immunity.

                Why do you refuse to acknowledge the figures I presented from the UK government that clearly demonstrates the mortality and hospitalization reduction?

                Cowering in fear is not a solution

                281

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Tilba, if you look in the VAERS database, and after applying the reality as found by a Harvard study that only approx 1% of cases are actually reported, when you add the deaths from both Pfiz and Modna covid vaxxes together, its about 622,900.

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              • #
                Wet Mountains

                Jo. One county in Colorado, 77490 cases of Covid resulting in 910 deaths. Deaths are not broken out as to preexisting conditions, etc. I am 71 and I’ll take my chances with Covid, along with shark attacks and lightning strikes. And as your blog has illustrated, there are many existing drugs that treat Covid effectively, should you contract the virus.

                221

              • #

                El Gordo says, “ The terrible flu of 2017 took many, it was a new variant and vaccination seemed to have failed. “

                And yet, like the Spanish flu, like all pandemics in history before any sterilizing vaccines ( which do not exist for coronavirus) the virus waned, and became a non factor. The insane leaky vaccines are preventing that!

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              • #
                el gordo

                Is this your interpretation of herd immunity?

                ‘By the summer of 1919, the flu pandemic came to an end, as those that were infected either died or developed immunity.

                ‘Almost 90 years later, in 2008, researchers announced they’d discovered what made the 1918 flu so deadly: A group of three genes enabled the virus to weaken a victim’s bronchial tubes and lungs and clear the way for bacterial pneumonia.’ (History.com)

                15

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              PeterS says:

              I just shown proof using government data that far more people here are dying from COVID-19 vaccines than from the virus itself. Prove me wrong. I welcome it. Look at the posts.

              Here’s the Government data:

              Since the beginning of the vaccine rollout to 25 July 2021, over 11.2 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been given. The TGA has received and reviewed 407 reports of deaths in people who have recently been vaccinated and found that 6 were linked to immunisation. These deaths were all related to the first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine – 5 were TTS cases and one was a case of immune thrombocytopenia (ITP).

              https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safety-report-29-07-2021

              Covid deaths in Australia to 7 August. = 939

              https://covidlive.com.au/report/deaths

              Six deaths from vaccinations and 939 deaths from Covid-19.

              That’s the data you refer to.

              So your assertion is a nonsense.

              68

              • #
                skeptocynic

                @Sceptical Sam:

                Your debunking is bunkum.

                You’re comparing data over hugely different time periods!

                Vaccine rollout in Australia began 22 February 2021
                Covid-19 arrived in Australia 19 January 2020, (first recorded positive test)

                That’s just for a start!

                Here’s some figures which more accurately refer to the same defined time period:

                To 23 May 2021, 3.6 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been given in Australia. In this period, the TGA has received 210 reports of deaths following immunisation – 109 have been reported for the Pfizer vaccine, 94 for the AstraZeneca vaccine and seven where the vaccine was not specified. https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safety-report-27-05-2021

                To 23 May 2021, the number of deaths in Australia attributed to Covid-19 was just one. An 80 year old man who was not even infected here in Australia, but contracted the disease overseas and brought it into the country with him. https://www.covid19data.com.au/deaths

                *That’s 210:1 for the same time period.

                However accurate numbers are actually not so easy to pin down. Especially for recent data.

                I note that more recently the TGA has been stating that deaths following vaccine can be definitively de-linked away from the vaccine, hence the lower figure in your quote.

                However, deaths due to Covid-19 this year seem to number 24 according to https://www.covid19data.com.au/deaths

                If the TGA have wound back the number of deaths attributed to Covid-19 vaccinations to 6 based on reporting, then the true number is much higher:

                please keep in mind the following limitations:
                … reports about adverse events are not automatically collected, but require a report to be filed to VAERS.
                “Underreporting” is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events. The degree of underreporting varies widely. https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html

                *That’s more like 24:60, or 600
                Note how rubbery both the adverse effects figure and the deaths attributed to Covid-19 actually are.

                72

              • #
                PeterS

                I can’t even say it’s a nice try. If you really want to compare apples with apples, then given the uncertainty will all these things, including the fact that the PCR test OFFICIALLY can’t tell the difference with much certainty that a test has detected a CONVID-19 fragment, a COVID-19 virus or another virus altogether, such as the flu, then we will have to conclude that no one died from any vaccine and no one died for the COVID-19 virus. However, we will assume they did, the figures are there for all to see according to the government’s own database and based on the available information, it is reasonable to conclude that more people have died from the COVID-19 vaccines than from the virus itself by about a ratio of 80 to 1 during the period 01/01/2021 to 07/05/2021. The following detailed information obtained from the database demonstrates the wide variety of symptoms associated with the vaccine related deaths.

                22 people who had an adverse event after being vaccinated died.
                18 people who had dyspnoea after being vaccinated died.
                17 people who had gastrointestinal disorders after being vaccinated died.
                14 people who had pulmonary embolism after being vaccinated died
                14 people who had a cardiac arrest after being vaccinated died
                3 people who suffered an injection site reaction after being vaccinated died.
                and so on.

                112

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                @ skeptocynic
                August 8, 2021 at 11:08 am. Above.

                That’s a beautiful piece of Pea and Thimble analysis, skeptocynic.

                The May figures you use precede the “review of death” reports, which show up in the 25 July report.

                Accordingly, you’ve got three thimbles and no peas in play.

                PeterS puts no time period on his contention. Did you not see that?

                My analysis clearly demonstrates the falsity of his contention that: “far more people here are dying from COVID-19 vaccines than from the virus itself.”

                26

              • #
                WXcycles

                Nicely put. Plus he (and others) totally ignore the point Jo made about what deaths would have been without a commitment to isolate the virus at our border and prevent it burning through our population. Plus the collective immunity conferred from catching it is perishable, and thus would not have protected us from exposure to Delta at this time. What we would have got was a lot of dead people, much earlier, for no national immunity benefit.

                PeterS also conveniently ignores the obvious implication that overwhelmed hospitals everywhere means not only is the economy shuttered entirely for the duration, and not only are large numbers of people dying of COVID19 for no reason, but that people will die in much higher numbers again from every other disease and injury there is, at the same time, that can not be treated as a result,

                And we’d still get hit by Delta strain, there after.

                A pretty good example of what’s wrong with the anti-vax ‘logic’. Next argument will be huffy bleating about economic damage from lock-down. It’s almost like a shock-jock’s baiting script. But his position will reverse 180 degrees as soon as it becomes convenient.

                Our economy and our travel infrastructure, medial system and hospitals and its vaccines exist for the benefit of people’s lives – not the other way around. It’s the people that matter, and take maximum priority, not the mere stuff. I remember clearly to this day that my first lesson at school was the emergency evacuation procedures and the logic of it all was this, “We can replace all this stuff around you, but we can not replace you for your family.” The value of humans as the highest priority is what our modern country was built on. The natural “Conservative” view of what matters is the lives of members of families. It’s never been about prioritizing systems and material ‘stuff’ over the emergency preserving of human lives first.

                The clear understanding, as early as late-Jan 2020, was that exponential growth of COVID19 in a population would lead to the collapse of hospital services, then a far larger number of dead would result. Indeed exactly that occurred in parts of Europe and the number of confirmed cases that dies rose to about 15%. Australia has been totally effective at preventing that, and also in getting the economy to grow again within months, despite being economically attacked by Beijing when we were at our weakest point.

                PeterS, I reject your shallow arguments, I especially reject your lack of priority for human lives, over your mere opinions of what should and should not be. As far as I’m concerned family members are the only valid reason to have a country, or an economy, or a medical system, or a political process and authorities to make it all happen. Why you want to work against the process of limiting exposure of the country’s families I really don’t get, you’re doing no one any good. We’ve demonstrated that we can limit this, and still do well, and we can get on top of it and we will recover easily from it. About 9 months from now this process will look very differently from now.

                And in case you’ve conveniently forgotten in all this anti-vax hoopla, Jo has been saying from the beginning that vaccines are just one avenue and they are unlikely to work well, and the more essential ingredients are the right vitamins and fitness combined with effective anti-virals, to combat the virus directly on contact, rather than just to lock-down and quarantine. We know these measures work and the nit-picking over vaccine mortality seems very misguided.

                Some quantitative facts:

                A total of 0.59% of the population of Peru has already died of COVID19, even before Delta showed up. Peru’s Population = 33,475,740, the total of national COVID19 cases to date = 2,124,128.

                In other words only 6.35% of Peru’s population are known to have caught COVID19 thus far, and yet 0.59% of the entire country’s population are ALREADY DEAD from it!. In other words, if 70% of Peru caught COVID19, the the percentage of peruvians who would then die would be:

                + 70% of Peru’s population
                / 6.35 Infected so far
                ————
                = 11.024 times more people
                ————

                Therefore:

                + 11.024 times more people infected
                * 0.59% dead already
                ————
                = 6.504 % of Peru’s population would be DEAD from this
                ————

                6.504% of Peru’s population = 1.522 MILLION Peruvians would DIE.

                https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/peru/

                And I see someone up the page is also insinuation Delta is less deadly than prior strains but that generalization is also certainly not true. I paid particularly close attention the deaths per million in India and how it changed once Delta strain showed up. The following is what really happened. The Delta strain growth wave began in the Indian stats on Feb 15th, 2021 (you can look this up yourself if you disbelieve any of this), and the deaths per million in India on that day were 146 people per million.

                But today, Aug 8th, 2021, almost 6 months later, Delta strain has almost fully taken over in India and the Indian deaths now stand at 307 people per million.

                The observed Indian mortality rate doubled with the Delta strain’s very rapid spread. That was most likely due to the rapid spreading overwhelming hospitals early, and them running out of beds, medicine and oxygen.

                The mortality rate skyrockets when hospitals fail to function any more.

                If the mortality from Delta also doubled in Peru during the next 12 months, then 3.1 million people would die in Peru, if 70% caught COVID19. Which is getting very close to 10% of the entire Peruvian population – DEAD!

                This sort of result is what Australia has been very successfully avoiding so far, and what we are doing absolutely works at putting human lives first.

                And let me remind you PeterS and similar, that the deaths from the known COVID19 cases, exceeded 16% DEAD, in several countries of Europe as their hospitals were inundated. and that was with just within the first wave of COVID19 cases.

                And the thing that stopped it getting far worse than that, and bought the deaths to a much lower level again, was isolation, not vaccination. But vaccination and good vitamins and minerals and fitness, plus antivirals, is what can end the isolation too.

                The incessant whining about COVID19 vaccination and its mortality is beyond the pale.

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                Analitik

                Prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies among market and city bus depot workers in Lima, Peru

                We report SARS-CoV-2 antibody positivity among market and city bus depot workers in Lima, Peru. Among 1,285 vendors from eight markets, prevalence ranged from 27-73%. Among 488 workers from three city bus depots, prevalence ranged from 11-47%. Self-reported symptoms were infrequent.

                This study was undertaken back in June 5 to July 18, 2020, so the numbers are certainly higher now – probably far higher.

                Numbers of positive CoViD test cases severely understate the total infection rate since most people are barely affected and recover without knowing they ever had it. And this would have been the Alpha variant which is demonstrably more debilitating than the Delta

                https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab323/6243873

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              • #
                Analitik

                Here’s a slightly more recent study
                Seroprevalence of anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in Iquitos, Peru in July and August, 2020: a population-based study

                we estimated a seroprevalence of 70% (95% CI 67–73) at baseline and 66% (95% CI 62–70) at 1 month of follow-up, with a test-retest positivity of 65% (95% CI 61–68), and an incidence of new exposures of 2% (95% CI 1–3).
                ..
                Iquitos appears to have been one of the first cities worldwide to surpass the herd immunity threshold, which was estimated for the original SARS-CoV-2 strain to be 60–70%.

                Again, numbers of positive CoViD test cases severely understate the total infection rate since most people are barely affected and recover without knowing they ever had it.

                https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(21)00173-X/fulltext

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              • #
                Analitik

                And back to India

                67% of Indians have Covid-19 antibodies. A far, far cry from your 2.3% – 10% based purely on PCR tests. Delta spreads rapidly and is largely innocuous so that 96.6% of infections are so mild that those people never get tested.

                The figures are from The Guardian so no excuses for it coming from a right-wing source.

                https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/21/covid-19-antibodies-detected-in-67-of-indias-population

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      Destroyer D69

      As long as the words “COVID” or any of its references is absent from the law it does not appear to violate any laws. The Federal prohibition on the instigation is only for those designated, or having reference to the law being aimed specifically at “Covid or its derivatives” So passports can be imposed by the States as long as they are termed “Vaccination certificates,” or similar, NOT COVID vaccination certificates. That is how this farrago appears to me.

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      • #
        Greg in NZ

        When this Covert Communism Crockdown (CCC) first reared its ugly head early last year, some wag somewhere wrote: Certificate Of Vaccination Identification = COVID. Welcome to the machine.

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      Tilba Tilba

      PM Morrison should make it illegal as it is unconstitutional under Commonwealth Law, but as we have come to learn he has gone over to the dark side just like the rest.

      Can you quote the section of the Australian Constitution that prevents either the Commonwealth or the states & territories from taking such steps as are considered necessary in a public health emergency? The Commonwealth and the states | territories have very wide powers under their various public health legislation.

      t allows states to declare other states as “hotspots” and ban travellers from there (no Vaccination Passport necessary). I cannot travel from Melbourne to the Gold Coast currently – and it is a legal declaration. These powers also allow Chief Medical Officers and Premiers to declare lockdowns, etc, without having to recall parliament or seek a judicial order every time to do so.

      It’s how any modern society is set up.

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        PeterS

        Article 12 of the ICCPR, which is not the Australian Constitution but we abide by it as per the Right to freedom of movement Public sector guidance sheet

        There can be limitations put in place by various means, such as public order, but no such order has been made to restrict such movements by the Commonwealth government. The states can do so but in doing so they are in breach of the Commonwealth Law which governs all this. They in effect need permission from the Federal government, and they haven’t receive it. Of course this is a more complex issue even High Court judges would have some trouble with. So, who are we to judge? All I am doing is reading the appropriate laws and making my own opinion. You can disagree and have a different opinion. I have no problem with that.

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          mobihci

          this links shows the legality of it –

          https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/FlagPost/2020/March/COVID-19_Biosecurity_Emergency_Declaration

          the part you refer to –

          “The Biosecurity Act recognises the federal nature of government in Australia and subsection 478(5) places limits on interference with state and territory bodies and officials:

          A direction must not be given under subsection (1) to an officer or employee of a State, Territory or State or Territory body unless the direction is in accordance with an agreement between the Commonwealth and the State, Territory or body.

          There is an intergovernmental agreement for National Partnership on COVID-19 Response.”

          ————-

          to me, i dont think “emergency” powers will ever end. they are forced to only have a 3 month period, but it can just be renewed forever, and if this remains in the law, then there will be little incentive to dump the ’emergency’. our government is not a democracy any more. get used to it.

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          Tilba Tilba

          Article 12 of the ICCPR, which is not the Australian Constitution but we abide by it

          LOL word salad … there is no section of the Australian Constitution that prohibits what you seem to be so vehemently opposed to (I don’t know why). Comrade – we are a nation of laws, and always have been. If there is a serious public health emergency then the laws will be invoked.

          Why do you have such a drama with all this? It is NOT the end of human rights or democracy as we know it … it’s just a public health emergency (a pandemic) that needs to be dealt with. Why all the angst? Why all the melodramatic paranoia – where does it come from?

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            Bruce

            COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA CONSTITUTION ACT – SECT 92
            Trade within the Commonwealth to be free

            On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free.

            And the steady gallop towards “laws” that are pure examples of “situational suggestions” is deliberate.

            For ANYONE to use the old line: “Ignorance of the law is no excuse”, is straight-up channeling the “Les Miserables” character of Javert.

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          Analitik

          epidemiologists are having their moment in the media spotlight. Sadly, they have found that stating the worst possible cases gives them the greatest exposure. A lot like climate scientists

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  • #

    What about those with natural immunity? Natural immunity fights the virus as a whole, while the vaccine only provides immunity against a specific spike protein, and does so indirectly, by introducing only the genetic instructions required to produce that one protein.

    BTW, if the delta variant is as contagious as they claim, masks are even more useless at protecting yourself or others, vaccinated or not.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Natural immunity has been rubbished several time by our officialdom. They tell lies as natural immunity does work, and given the known and known risks associated with the COVID-19 vaccines, it has to be a dam lot safer to get the virus than to take the shots.

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘ … natural immunity does work …’

        Covid is unnatural (lab manufactured) and natural immunity might not stop its ability to reinvent itself. Do you have a link to support the suggestion that it works?

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          PeterS

          Yes it worked in Sweden.

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            Peter C

            Yes it worked in Sweden.

            Sweden is looking very good right now with low infection rates and a very small number of deaths.

            Compare however with a country like South Africa which has had 3 distinct waves of cases and deaths, or Brazil where the disease grumbles on.
            https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

            What is making the difference? I don’t know.

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              Old Goat

              Peter, If I remember correctly Sweden fortifies some foods (milk?) with Vitamin D. That could be the difference…

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              • #
                Chris

                ….and yoghurt and many breads. Foods that are fortified are labelled, however there are many varieties to choose from that are not.
                Scandinavians are very aware of having healthy Vit D levels. Lethargy and depression are recognised as a Vit D deficiency in Winter, particularly in children.

                it is summer and school holidays, according to my Norwegian family, the weather has been fantastic across Norway and Sweden for weeks. As there is no opportunity to go away, “everyone” is out walking and cycling and making the most of the sun.

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            • #
              RickWill

              Sweden has had 10.8M vaccinations in a population of 10.4M. More than 50% fully vaccinated. They were aiming to have full vaccination, meaning two doses, by end of July but they missed that.

              Brazil has given 147M jabs in a population of 214M – hardly comparable with Sweden.

              South Africa 8.1M jabs inn population of of 60M. Death rate remains in lock-step with cases.

              What is making the difference? I don’t know.

              Quite evidently vaccinations. It is why there is so much emphasis on getting vaccinations. It unloads the dying industry from hospitals to grave diggers.

              Cases in Sweden are back up over 1000/day but Covid deaths are now rare. Norway currently has 500cased/day.

              All countries that have eased restriction after high level of vaccination have rising cases but much lower death rate.

              Another point is that the level of vaccinations as proportion of population is a single jab. So for a country to achieve full vaccination the percentage of jabs to population has to be 200%. Right now Israel is 133%. I wondered why figures were higher than 100% – now I know.

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                Peter C

                Quite evidently vaccinations.

                Not so evident if Jo’s headline post is correct.

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                RickWill

                The headline is about the level of infection. It has nothing to do with death rate. Once people are vaccinated their risk of a bad outcome from infection is dramatically reduced.

                I am not in the practice of taking nose swabs to check the infectiousness of people near me. I move well away from people coughing and spluttering.

                Right now there is a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated. Whole communities think they can drop their guard once there is a certain level of vaccination. That is not going to be the case. Vaccinated people can still get the virus and still spread it. They will show fewer symptoms, which is bad if people let their guard down.

                The only control better than the vaccine is effective border controls. Australia was one of the very few places with almost effective border controls. The genie is out in Sydney and unlikely to be put back. Vaccination will be the only way out.

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              • #
                mobihci

                the costs, in both human and economic terms of lockdowns and the vaccines is yet to be realised which is why they are so insidious. both will have a dramatic effect on the future of human lives everywhere and those that say they know this cost is less than what would be treating this as a disease of the sick, not healthy are a bunch of liars.

                obviously natural immunity trumps vaccination in this case and this is based on a common virus, not and individual virus that will kill you. the virus is no more deadly than sars, and just a bit more than the flu, it is so familiar to our immune systems than most dont even get symptoms. there is little reason to treat a virus that kills less than 2% of those infected (old, and comorbid) to almost 0% young as a ‘deadly’ virus that requires house arrest.

                people in charge need to stop scaring the crap out of people for no good reason.

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            Natural immunity is far better, and even before exposure to this coronavirus it existed in many. The Princess cruise line proved this. About 1000 of the passengers shared the same 100 sq foot room with one other person. In many cases one partner never got sick. In many other cases both got sick and only one had a severe reaction or died.
            Those exposed now have far less recurring infection and broader immunity. And much less chance of spreading and mutating the virus. The initial vaccine resistance to Covid is rapidly waning.

            Here is a link to read, posted before, that demonstrates why this is so.
            https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243127

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        • #
          PeterS

          So, by saying that because the virus is not natural and therefore natural immunity is not possible then by logical deduction the vaccines are also infective. You can’t have it both ways. The whole point of a COVID-19 vaccine is to fool the body into thinking the real virus is present and allegedly to create immunity.

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          • #
            PeterS

            In other words, the vaccines are not a cure to the virus. They are tools to make the body immune. In the past most vaccines tend to be manufactured from the actual virus.

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            • #
              Analitik

              In other words, the vaccines are not a cure to the virus. They are tools to make the body immune.

              Actually, these gene therapy spike protein vaccines do not provide immunity – the antibodies they cause you to produce only help your body fight off an infection once it is already under way. So they are of even less use than you had been led to believe.

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              • #

                And many, if not most of the antibodies are ineffective.

                “ In this study we profiled vaccine-induced polyclonal antibodies as well as plasmablast derived mAbs from individuals who received SARS-CoV-2 spike mRNA vaccine. Polyclonal antibody responses in vaccinees were robust and comparable to or exceeded those seen after natural infection. However, the ratio of binding to neutralizing antibodies after vaccination was greater than that after natural infection and, at the monoclonal level, we found that the majority of vaccine-induced antibodies did not have neutralizing activity.”

                and oh crap…

                “We also found a co-dominance of mAbs targeting the NTD and RBD of SARS-CoV-2 spike and an original antigenic-sin like backboost to seasonal human coronaviruses OC43 and HKU1.”

                Link… https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=242430

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          • #
            el gordo

            Tony at top of thread gave an excellent summary of the situation in the UK.

            If new variants evolve, like with the flu, then we may never become free of this scourge. Assuming you live in a capital city, I don’t fancy your chances of avoiding contagion unless we maintain fortress Australia.

            Guest workers are welcome, but will have to go through 14 days quarantine regardless. The new world disorder.

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            • #
              RickWill

              I do not believe it is quite that bad. Most people will be cautious for a long time. The UK provides a good example of what not to do when restrictions are lifted – throw a big party.

              Also the picture on vaccinations is not quite clear yet. The population is only nominally fully vaccinated when the level reaches 200%. Right now Israel is only 133%.

              The vaccination has taken the load off hospitals – without a doubt. The vaccination does not stop people getting a viral load sufficient to spread it. But if they are not coughing, spluttering, sneezing and smearing their nasal fluids and spittle over surface then that reduces the spread.

              My sister told me a story about a supermarket on the Gold Coast where a woman sneezed. Someone yelled “Covid” and the store cleared. No doubt just being an alarmist but no one needed to be in the shop with someone sneezing so a large number just left. I think that sort of response will be around for quite a while even after people are vaccinated if they know the vaccine does not stop the spread and they can still get ill. The vaccine is just another tool in the control kit – albeit a very important one but not the ultimate. Time will be a key factor as well.

              There is a whole new industry developing to treat facial acne caused by masks – optimists and quick thinkers look for the opportunities.

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                Peter C

                My sister told me a story about a supermarket on the Gold Coast where a woman sneezed. Someone yelled “Covid” and the store cleared.

                Sounds like a rational response.

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              • #
                el gordo

                Out in Central West NSW everyone is fairly relaxed because nobody is going to Sydney and presumably they are not coming here. Nevertheless we abide by the protocols without lockdown.

                We are free to travel round about and a friend took the opportunity to visit a family member on the south coast, to watch the whales travelling north.

                Out of adversity opportunities reveal themselves.

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              • #
                Yonniestone.

                Then someone yelled out covid! and the bloke behind me swore………apologies to Redgum.

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              • #
                OriginalSteve

                The vaccines are like using psuedoephadrine to mask the fact you are beyond tired and should really be sleeping instead…..

                All the vaccines do is ensure you have an endless cycle of superspreader events being constantly kicked off.

                You know those zombie movies? Well now we have half a society turned into zombie virus spreaders….

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              • #

                Rick says, “” Also the picture on vaccinations is not quite clear yet. The population is only nominally fully vaccinated when the level reaches 200%. Right now Israel is only 133%.””

                What the hell does that mean? The vast majority of the population was under no real threat from the virus.

                One year ago, before the vaccine, the UK had fewer infections and deaths!

                You continue to discount seasonal factors and natural immunity, and the vaccine harms and ever increasing failures.

                Show me a current two week chart of Israel As a whole, or any nation heavily vaccinated, that lists vaccinated vs unvaccinated percentage, contagion, and hospitalizations. Correct for demographics and pre existence medical conditions. Do this in any country where the vaccines have had time to fail. They are failing. This was done for Scotland and the vaccinated have more harms, more infections, after adjusting for percentage. This is before adding in the adverse events.

                Read this post and refute it, instead of ignoring it. https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243127
                Failure to refute the assertions in this link means you can not.

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              • #
                RickWill

                To be sterilizing a vaccine must prevent infection.

                This is where Karl fails in his understanding of herd immunity. Victoria has PROVEN 5 times that it can eliminate community spread. ALL that is required is to get the rate of infection below 1. Once that occurs, exponential decay ensures the virus disappears.

                The vaccine has a huge impact on the infection rate. The evidence on that is quite clear; first in the Phase 3 trials and now in UK and Israel, which have eliminated controls with only a slight uptick in cases while only 70% of the population fully vaccinated. What they are now learning is that the vaccine alone does not get the infection rate under 1; at least while there are unvaccinated people in their populations. So other controls such as distancing and masks should not be dispensed with immediately.

                All the information on viral loads in based on sticking a swab up people’s nose to extract fluids. That is completely different to someone walking about coughing, sneering, sputtering with their nasal fluid dripping onto any surface they approach.

                The world is fighting a bio-weapon. Easy enough to eliminate by getting the infection rate under 1 by any sensible means. It then dies its own death as it runs out of hosts. Australia has beaten it every time it got into the community:
                http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/?chart=countries&highlight=Australia&show=highlight-only&y=both&scale=linear&data=cases-daily-7&data-source=jhu&xaxis=right#countries

                No vaccine manufacturer has claimed that their vaccine prevents infection. The have shown a massive reduction in the rate of infection in vaccinated groups.

                06

              • #
                mobihci

                Rickwill,

                think of the spanish flu for a minute. a few years ago victoria had an outbreak of the spanish flu under the name of swine flu, it has never gone away because it can be carried by animals. in the case of sars, there is no doubt that it will survive in animals. the transmission to humans may a different thing, but I think covid zero as a goal is a negative for humans. the vaccine needs to be an actual vaccine to achieve the goal of zero otherwise it will continue to mutate around it until it becomes something truly unpredictable.

                the spanish flu killed over 20% of the population in Samoa when a single NZ ship brought it into the country in 1918. it did this because the immune levels to this type of virus were almost non existent. it probably could have wiped out a larger percentage had people not naturally protected themselves and isolated the sick. the point is that these large numbers will not be seen in current populations due the fact that a level of natural immunity has been reached.

                asymptomatic cases of covid prove that our immune systems are capable of dealing with this virus AND the variants like delta that are SO close to the original that they may as well be called the same thing.

                I laugh every time I hear a report on TV that says sewerage testing in three suburbs around brisbane have evidence of covid. It is true, it is out in the community as we speak, much like Tassie -no cases, yet in the sewerage. how is anyone supposed to know how many people have already had covid-19? how are we supposed to react to finding it in the burbs? lock down until we never see this virus again? how about locking down until H1N1 is gone? i mean why not. Influenza A will not go away until there is a proper vaccine. currently we have something that shouldnt be called a vaccine in both cases.

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              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Peter,
                Maybe they should have been wearing masks.

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              • #

                Rick says , (my comments in () and caps for clarity.

                This is where Karl fails in his understanding of herd immunity. ( HE UNDERSTANDS. I CHALLENGE YOU TO TAKE THE POST I GAVE AND REFUTE IT LINE BY LINE)
                Victoria has PROVEN 5 times that it can eliminate community spread. ( AND IS WORKING ON FAILURE NUMBER 6) THE VIRUS IS IN THE WILD, AND IN ANIMALS. All that is required is to get the rate of infection below 1. Once that occurs, exponential decay ensures the virus disappears. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT.

                The vaccine has a huge impact on the infection rate. ( INITIALLY SOMEWHAT, THEN FAILING AND DAMAGING THE ORGANS, WEAKENING IMMUNITY, CREATING VACCINE RESISTANT STRAINS)

                The evidence on that is quite clear; first in the Phase 3 trials and now in UK and Israel, which have eliminated controls with only a slight uptick in cases while only 70% of the population fully vaccinated. (I HAVE POINTED OUT TO YOU SEVERAL TIMES THAT THERE ARE THREE FACTORS DROPPING THE NUMBERS, SEASONAL, VACCINES, AND NATURAL IMMUNITY. DESPITE THIS THE UK NOW HAS HIGHER CASES AND MORE DEATHS THEN ONE YEAR AGO. ( CHECK IT OUT) THINK ABOUT THAT. AFTER THE FIRST WAVE IN THE UK, AT ABOUT THIS TIME OF YEAR, INFECTIONS AND DEATHS WERE LOWER THEN NOW. THE MAN YOU CLAIMS DOES NOT UNDERSTAND, UNDERSTANDS VERY WELL. HE WRITES ABOUT Rt AND EXPLAINS IT VERY WELL. INFECTED AND HOSPITALIZED IN ISRAEL IS JUST AS HIGH OR HIGHER FOR VACCINATED AS UNVACCINATED. OVER THE RECENT MONTH, AND THE SAME IS TRUE IN MANY PARTS OF THE UK. THIS SHOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE IF THE VACCINES WERE WORKING WELL.

                What they are now learning is that the vaccine alone does not get the infection rate under 1; YES, NOWHERE NEAR 95 PERCENT EFFECTIVE.

                at least while there are unvaccinated people in their populations. THE EVIDENCE AND PANDEMIC VIROLOGY 101 SHOW THE VACCINES ARE FAILING AND HAVE FAILED. AGAIN, SHOW ANY LARGE AREA, NATION OR STATE, PICK THE MOST RECENT TWO WEEKS AND COMPARE INFECTED AND HOSPITALIZED PERCENTAGES AND VACCINATED VS UNVACCINATED. DEEPER RESEARCH INDICATES
                THE VACCINES OF PREVIOUSLY INFECTED MAY BE DAMAGING THEIR IMMUNITY. THIS POTENTIAL IS UNDERSTOOD.
                So other controls such as distancing and masks should not be dispensed with immediately. MASKS DO VERY LITTLE. DISTANCING IS NOT NEEDED FOR THE MAJORITY. IF IVERMECTIN AND OTHER MEDICATIONS AND VITAMINS WERE USED THE Ro WOULD BE WELL UNDER 1. THIS COULD HAVE ENDED MORE THEN A YEAR AGO.

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          PTR

          Go and take a few lessons on biology at Gigaohm biological, you might wise up a bit. How is it you think that all those who have been infected and recovered without having received the jab, managed to do so?

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          • #
            PeterS

            [SNIP. Please limit personalized insults. Unpack the message, not the man. – Jo]

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              el gordo

              Its not my bag, I’m only filling in until Mr Fitz gets back.

              I leave all further discussion with Rick, he seems to know a thing or two.

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                Analitik

                I disagree with you on quite a few things but your statement 4.1.1 is one of the most ridiculous things, if not the most, that you have ever posted here. Even PF would be unlikely to top this.

                The death rate would be 100% by your reasoning.

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              • #
                el gordo

                Covid was manufactured?

                01

              • #
                Analitik

                No.
                What does that have to do with your questioning whether natural immune response could cope with COVID-19? Of course it does.

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              • #
                el gordo

                Certainly natural adaptation would occur, but to let it run its course would be highly disruptive to the body politic.

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            • #
              PeterS

              Jo, can I get a Sieg Heil!

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          Lowell from Seattle

          This link refers to the israeli study that natual immunity is six times more effective than the vaccine in preventing reinfection.

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      David A

      Co2isnotevil, you may find this a helpful explanation of the disaster unfolding…
      https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3682671

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        redress

        Davis A ….best explanation I have seen…well done on finding it !!

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        • #
          Hanrahan

          I agree.

          The author seems to concede that there are reinfections but I have never read a percentage and would not trust such a figure anyway, it is likely that misdiagnosis would account for many such “reinfections”.

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        PeterS

        Yea I’ve been following that site too but refrained from posting links as some of the stuff there is too extreme and fake. By and large though there is a lot of good material too. Just need to use discernment.

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        • #

          Peter, I have not followed it. The existing top Covid posts are very good. Was there a particular subject where you found him sketchy?

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        Brenda Spence

        Disaster unfolding is right!

        Great find indeed! Now I understand.

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        Rob

        Wow, thanks for your links David

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  • #
    Rosco

    Saw this yesterday

    https://rumble.com/vkorz0-freedom-fighter-court-victory-ends-masking-shots-quarantine-in-alberta.html

    Patrick King issued fine for breaching COVID rules in December 2020.

    Choose to go to court.

    Judge grants his request the CHO provide material evidence they have proven existence of Virus as essential to his defence.

    The CHO fails to produce evidence – “the chief medical officer has no material evidence.”

    Testing, forced quarantine etc have no legal basis without evidence of the virus.

    Judge agrees that is what they said.

    Case dismissed but further legal shenanigans ensue.

    Alberta drops ALL COVID mandated health rules !

    “On July 28 the province announced that those who test positive for COVID-19 will no longer need to isolate as of July 29 and there will be no more testing required for Albertans who have mild symptoms. Provincial masking orders for transit, in taxis or ride shares will also expire.

    Alberta’s Chief Medical Officer of Health Dr. Deena Hinshaw announced the changes July 28 as part of the province’s move to treat the virus as part of life in Alberta and treat it in the same way Albertans treat other respiratory viruses.

    The province will also stop contract tracing, expect for in high-risk settings, and masks will not be required in schools in September.

    Most of the changes will take effect on Aug. 16.”

    https://www.stalberttoday.ca/local-news/alberta-drops-covid-19-restrictions-kenney-backs-hinshaw-4190283

    ???

    You tell me if the whole escapade is real ?

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      PeterS

      Don’t be confused. The issue of whether the COVID-19 virus is real or not is just a distraction. Regardless of whether it’s real or not (probably is) the governments are taking advantage of the situation to create so much hype and hysteria to eliminate human rights and end democracy. Even if it could be proven the virus is not real, it’s already far too late. There is so much momentum the governments will do anything and everything to keep the draconian ball rolling. To get a better appreciation as to what’s really happening, read the following:
      The Battle over the Virus – Real or Not
      Vaccines & the Tool of Tyranny

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    • #
      RickWill

      It is a beat up – pause the video when the letter with the red mark is displayed. Read the actual words in the paragraph. Basically the CMOH is saying to King, kiss my ……

      Alberta lifted restrictions because they reached 70% of population with at least one jab. Same thing has occurred in Florida in USA.

      King is asking for a 19th century bug test protocol. Only a moron would ask for that when the Covid genomes are regularly sequenced to link paths of transmission.

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      • #

        Thanks Rick. I watched that video a couple of days ago but would not touch it. But it did raise questions. The state could obviously and easily show the virus exists. The electronmicrographs, millions of PCR results, plaque forming assays, contact tracing, full sequence analysis in labs all over the world with open source codes. Tens of thousands of ICU doctors. Dead bodies. Morgues. Etc. If the virus was fake there would need to millions of paid actors. It is improbable and easily mocked on TV.

        So I wonder if the State refusal to even bother is some sort of trap — it may be just sheer arrogance and over confidence, but it also might conveniently be designed to feed distrust and division in a certain group in the populace.

        After all, there are beneficiaries if a small group of the population raises hell over something which is so easily disproven. Those good but misguided people make useful media targets to hide other important problems and to distract from real issues. They become pawns in a marketing game. And I would expect the Dems and President Xi also aren’t too disappointed if the virus takes out a few more older likely republican voters.

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        Tilba Tilba

        Alberta lifted restrictions because they reached 70% of population with at least one jab. Same thing has occurred in Florida in USA.

        Florida still has 23,000 new cases yesterday, and 200 deaths. It’s very real.

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      • #
        • #

          Sry Rickwill
          but if the truth is to be known l cannot find anything to say that Alberta is 70% vaccinated
          https://covid19tracker.ca/provincevac.html?p=AB
          or that that is the cause of lifting the restrictions for covid in Alberta
          in fact what l have seen from several sources is that the reason for lifting restrictions is so they can “focus on other health threats”
          https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-covid-coronavirus-aug-6-1.6131991

          l honestly think that this will be a good test case for the world to watch
          similar to Florida whose demographics are very similar to California?
          now there’s a comparison for you,
          one state that quarantined the sick, protected the vulnerable but let the healthy live there lives keeping the state going
          the other closed the state down with draconian laws that are meant to stop people from dying of the Kung Flu
          very similar outcomes with totally different responses
          L know where l would rather live 😉

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  • #
    Travis T.Jones

    It’s only a tweet, but it resonates in a way the elites will never understand.

    The resistance don’t have to protest on the streets with signs …

    “My Russian friends told me – it was a very strict compliance about vax passports in Moscow.

    Nobody would be allowed to come into the restaurant without a vax.

    That lasted about 3 weeks.

    Why?

    Because nobody went to the restaurants any more.”

    https://mobile.twitter.com/LilithAssyria/status/1423452531338981380

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    • #
      Destroyer D69

      The power of the PEOPLE……Australia take note.

      181

    • #
      RickWill

      Russians are a suspicious lot for good reason.

      If I could get into an uncrowded restaurant simply by having a Covid passport, it would be great.

      In the early days of CitiLink in Melbourne there were a lot people refusing to pay the toll. Not an issue for me because I spent a few years paying the bridge toll in Sydney. My drive to work from suburb to city was bliss for about two years before people realised they could save a lot of time. Eventually it became just as clogged as every other road.

      Covid passports in Australia will likely get wide support. They are already being issued for people having two jabs. If you know you are in a restaurant or boutique with only vaccinated people then you can have some confidence you are not mingling with unvaccinated Riff-Raff.

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        Tilba Tilba

        Covid passports in Australia will likely get wide support. They are already being issued for people having two jabs. If you know you are in a restaurant or boutique with only vaccinated people then you can have some confidence you are not mingling with unvaccinated Riff-Raff.

        I agree that most Australians will support vaccine passports – despite our convict origins, we are generally pretty law-abiding, and we have very few noisy right-wing outfits here.

        But doesn’t your reasoning run up against the central theme of this thread – that there is some evidence suggesting that the vaccinated – if infected – are just as infectious as the unvaccinated? However I concede that if there were 25 people in your restaurant and they are all vaccinated, the probability of one or more of them actually being infected / infectious will be hugely lower than if they were unvaccinated (and exposed).

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        • #

          Or only 16% lower if they were vaccinated in January.

          12

        • #
          RickWill

          if infected – are just as infectious as the unvaccinated?

          Only if you are inclined to stick a swab up other people’s noses and suck on it. The testing is based on nose swabs.

          If people are infectious coughing, sneezing, spitting and dribbling nasal fluid onto surface then that is quite different to someone who is asymptomatic and masked up.

          The Pfizer study shows how effective their vaccine is in preventing the spread:
          https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v1.full.pdf
          Go to page 156 and compare the red and blue charts. The infection rate for those vaccinated flatlined after 12 days. The infection rate for those unvaccinated just kept rising. However remember that this study was undertaken when other controls were still active. The blue curve indicates that the infection rate in the unvaccinated was just above 1 on average. The red curve shows that the infection rate dropped lock a rock in air with those vaccinated after just 12 days.

          The mistake most countries are making is removing ALL controls once a significant number are vaccinated. The UK threw one big party. The vaccines are simply not that good. They reduce the infection rate about 10-fold; at least initially. Australia has already demonstrated that it can get infection rate under 1 without a vaccine. The vaccine means that the infection rate can be held under 1 with fewer distancing restrictions.

          Fully opening up with zero distancing controls while there is still community spread and 10+% of the any population unvaccinated is just silly. No matter my vaccine stratus, I will not be hugging any person from China coughing and sneezing like they were encourages people to do in Italy.

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          • #
            Tilba Tilba

            The mistake most countries are making is removing ALL controls once a significant number are vaccinated. The UK threw one big party. The vaccines are simply not that good. They reduce the infection rate about 10-fold; at least initially. Australia has already demonstrated that it can get infection rate under 1 without a vaccine. The vaccine means that the infection rate can be held under 1 with fewer distancing restrictions.

            Yes – I agree totally. Well stated.

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          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            The Pfizer study shows how effective their vaccine is in preventing the spread:

            Rick, which variant is the non sterilizing gene therapy by the big pharma corporation preventing the spread of? The now really ancient original Alpha wild type, the other new Delta, or the more recent lambada one? I for one do not know. Good to read that you are onto it and may perhaps simplify it for those in my category with lots of questions..

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          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            If people are infectious coughing, sneezing, spitting and dribbling nasal fluid onto surface then that is quite different to someone who is asymptomatic and masked up.

            Rick, i have seen police/others wearing masks that have valves. The outlet valves are located directly in front of the nose and mouth. The exhaled air coming out of the valves is not filtered. Do you think this could improve?

            10

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        OriginalSteve

        The housing market will suffer as many die off and they cant sell housing if 50% of people are gone…..

        They will also need many bulldozer drivers.

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        • #
          beowulf

          They will also need many bulldozer drivers.

          Yeah, for the mass graves of the vaccinated.

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        • #
          Tilba Tilba

          The housing market will suffer as many die off and they cant sell housing if 50% of people are gone….. They will also need many bulldozer drivers.

          Doomer porn is just so attractive in the early morning light! Give it a rest comrade … it is just totally beyond silly. There are rational people here.

          13

      • #
        Rainer Bensch

        If you are not part of the Riff-Raff why do you care what happens to them?

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  • #
    Lance

    Apparently, Moderna and Pfizer vaccinated the control group. This disrupts the baseline data.

    “Just so we are clear, the final FDA authorization and approval for the vaccines are based on the outcome of these trials. As noted in the example above the control group was intentionally lost under the auspices of “the right thing to do”, so there is no way for the efficacy, effectiveness or safety of the vaccine itself to be measured.

    There’s no-one left within the control group, of a statistically valid value, to give an adequate comparison of outcomes for vaxxed -vs- non-vaxxed.”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/06/this-is-nuts-moderna-and-pfizer-intentionally-lost-the-clinical-trial-control-group-testing-vaccine-efficacy-and-safety/#more-215023

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    • #
      STJOHNOFGRAFTON

      Jab refusenicks are the real control group. Are they going to be disappeared too?

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    • #
      Custer Van Cleef

      Here’s a quote from Pfizer’s Press Release in Nov 2020:

      “Additionally, participants will continue to be monitored for long-term protection and safety for an additional two years after their second dose.”

      Therefore look to the closing month of 2022 for some kind of report.

      They may think they can escape scrutiny by folding the 20,000+ Control Group participants into the other group, but they can’t evade the time factor — if there are long-term adverse affects, they will be statistically significantly higher in the first group to get the vax.

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        Analitik

        The problem is that there is only a 6 month spread between the original group getting the shots vs the placebo group being shot. For studying long term effects, that period is likely to be insignificant.

        Eliminating a control group can be couched in terms of moral duty but it really is poor science

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        • #
          Analitik

          Actually, change that from “poor” to “corrupt”

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        • #
          Custer Van Cleef

          It’s not ideal but a 6 month spread might be enough separation for a health problem that takes less than 18 months to emerge…

          00

    • #
      RickWill

      Given that the trial had proven the high efficacy of the vaccinel and the much higher risk of a bad outcome if unvaccinated then it was only reasonable that those participating in the trial be offered the vaccine after the results were in.

      The chart on page 15 of the Phase 3 trial report is the most telling:
      https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v1.full.pdf

      Both populations were around 22,000. The placebo group recorded 889 Covid infections while the vaccinated group recorded 82 infection. There was just 1 vaccinated person who experienced a serious Covid case compared with 22 for the placebo group. It is interesting that both populations had deaths from other causes with 14 in the vaccinated group and 13 in the placebo. They mention HIV as a cause of two but nothing on the others.

      What is most encouraging about the chart is the flatlining of the cumulative incidence after day 12 for the vaccinated group. The placebo group just keeps rising. On a population wide basis, this is an enormous benefit. It will lead rapidly to the virus dying out providing enough people take the vaccine.

      What I am yet to evidence on is a vaccinated person actually spreading the virus. It is one thing to be infectious but another thing to be a spreader. Given households are the most likely place for spreading infection, the Pfizer study indicates that spreading in households gets shut down.

      Remember that these people signed up for the trial and had no clue what was in their jab. It is only fair that they be offered the vaccine after the proven success of the vaccine. So far USA has a Covid death rate of 2%. The vaccine reduces that risk by at least a factor of 10. It will quickly eliminate the risk if the majority of people get vaccinated.

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      • #

        Thank you Rick. Thumbs up from me.

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        • #
          Analitik

          Really, Jo? Why are you scare mongering?

          Why do you refuse to look at the UK figures I posted about hospitalisations and the Delta variant?

          With the Delta variant and antivirals, we should be reopening and get natural herd immunity. Gene therapy spike protein vaccines are the last thing you should be supporting

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        • #
          Kraken

          Jo, you seem to be surrounded by people who have alternative facts, the same rationale as the climate sceptics.

          04

      • #
        PeterS

        Yet the real data according to the government database proves that one has a greater chance of dying from the vaccine than from the virus itself. Go figure. Sometimes lab experiments don’t correlate very well with the real world simply because they can’t take into account many other factors.

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          Tilba Tilba

          Yet the real data according to the government database proves that one has a greater chance of dying from the vaccine than from the virus itself.

          This has been stated a couple of times. Where is the evidence? Some 632,000 US citizens have died from the virus – how many would not have had they been vaccinated? The virulence of the Delta Variant is such that some epidemiologists are saying that for the unvaccinated in many contexts, it’s just a matter of time.

          Seems much more reasonable – both for the individual and for the community – to have the vaccination.

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          • #
            clarence.t

            “to have the vaccination.”

            An experimental concoction where you have absolutely no clue as to the longer term efficacy or side-effects.

            That is, by design, tampering with the base level of your cell structure !

            That is not rational thinking.

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            PeterS

            As already pointed a number of times read my posts to prove what I stated is true, assuming the government’s database is correct and the reported COVID-19 deaths are correct. I’m comparing apples with apples, while you can’t even find the apple tree.

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            “Some 632,000 US citizens have died “.

            Won’t argue with that.

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      • #
        Analitik

        That study was with the as Alpha variant and with the useless ‘go home and call us when you’re dying’ treatment regime. Plus the 2% death rate you quote is grossly inflated by almost anyone dead who then happened to test for COVID-19 being classed as a CoViD-19 death.

        As for yet to see evidence of vaccinated spreading CoViD-19, I linked the case of a stupid Australian socialite who infected at least 20 and possibly 60 people after getting fully vaccinated and then throwing a party. I’m pretty sure you made a comment about the guy being an idiot. I will dig up the link again if you insist.

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        Flok

        Unless both groups were directly exposed to the virus in equal measure that case study can go out the door.

        Chance of getting the virus is different in real environment.

        Up to date for Australian population, all cases, active cases and deaths

        0.14% All cases to population
        0.02% Active case to population
        0.0037% Deaths to population

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      • #
    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Thats a standard trick …this is why they push to get the Amish vaccinated so there is no control group….

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  • #
    R.B.

    Confusion has spread online as countries report increasing numbers of new COVID-19 cases among people who have been vaccinated.

    Recent reports from Israel show that a large portion of cases there have been among individuals who were fully vaccinated.

    And last week, the US Centers of Disease Control (CDC) reported that “approximately three-quarters of cases [in a recent outbreak in Massachusetts had] occurred in fully vaccinated persons”.

    The reports have led to suggestions that people who are fully vaccinated appear more likely to catch COVID-19 than those who aren’t.

    In an interview with US network Fox News, Republican senator Ron Johnson questioned whether the Pfizer vaccine was effective against the highly contagious Delta strain of the virus saying that “84 per cent” of cases in Israel were among vaccinated individuals.

    Others, meanwhile, took to social media, with one Twitter user responding to the Massachusetts outbreak by asking: “How the f*** are vaccinated people the majority of the infected?”

    But those comments ignore the fact that regions such as Israel and Massachusetts have vaccinated the majority of their populations — 62 per cent and 64 per cent respectively. It stands to reason, therefore, that new cases are more likely to occur in vaccinated communities as they make up more of the population.

    As the Washington Post pointed out: “The latest numbers show that 85 per cent of Israeli adults are vaccinated, meaning there are more than five times as many of them as unvaccinated people.”

    According to Lucy D’Agostino McGowan, an assistant professor of statistics at Wake Forest University, expressing vaccinated people as a percentage of COVID-19 cases means that “the better the vaccine uptake the scarier this number will seem”.

    Discus. (Sorry. Just having a laugh.)
    I posted this from the ABC Covid fact check. ABC News: Why you shouldn’t be concerned when more vaccinated people are getting infected than unvaccinated.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-06/coronacheck-israel-higher-numbers-vaccinated-people-infected/100353540

    They then use a diagram of 95 % vaccinated and 4 people being infected so that it looks like just as many get sick even if vaccinated. But 84% of infected individuals in Israel were vaccinated and the country has fully vaccinated 85% of its population.

    No wonder there is confusion. The fact checkers are from RMIT.

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      PeterS

      Well according to our own Federal Database of Adverse Event Notifications for Medicines it gets even more confusing.

      Note the site has this warning:

      The TGA uses adverse event reports to identify when a safety issue may be present.
      An adverse event report does not mean that the medicine is the cause of the adverse event.
      If you are experiencing an adverse event, or think you may be experiencing one, please seek advice from a health professional as soon as possible.
      The TGA strongly advises people taking prescription medicines not to change their medication regime without prior consultation with a health professional.

      All that means is the figures below relating to the COVID-19 vaccines being used in Australia indicate that a lot more people have died who have been vaccinated for COVID-19 than we are led to believe by our lying state officialdom. The figures don’t necessarily mean the vaccine is the direct or only cause of the deaths. It means the deaths were most likely linked to the vaccines either directly or indirectly (eg, vaccine triggered a heart attack because the person already had a heart condition).

      Search results
      The results are shown in two tabs.
      Number of reports (cases): 15541
      Number of cases with a single suspected medicine: 15386
      Number of cases where death was a reported outcome: 158

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      • #
        PeterS

        The figures above are for this year alone. The site is: https://apps.tga.gov.au/Prod/daen/daen-entry.aspx

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      • #
        wokebuster

        BTW the last 8 in 158 was the record one day death by Covid vaccine toll just reported. In recent weeks we’ve also been getting a lot of days where 5 deaths are reported. It would be no surprise to see the record frequently broken once data from June to the present became available. Imagine the death rate if Australia’s was 75% vaxxed instead of 17% or whatever it is currently.

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        • #
          PeterS

          As I sated on numerous occasions there is a lot we don’t know about the situation. We will know more as time goes by but the problem is our governments are acting much faster in deploying their draconian methods almost to the point of martial law. The next few months should reveal their true intentions more clearly. Even then we might not know enough. We might have to wait another year or so. Oh well, I’m in no hurry to see the West crash and burn.

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          • #
            el gordo

            ‘ … deploying their draconian methods almost to the point of martial law.’

            Canterbury/Bankstown inhabitants need to be surrounded by a ring of steel.

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            • #
              Raving

              https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1423816662659125254?s=21

              Exponential growth.

              Sydney might have to do a Full Wuhan

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            • #
              Raving

              It’ not that there are many cases yet but if the numbers continue to run away then in a week’s time … -_-

              32

              • #
                el gordo

                They are concerned not to create racial tensions, adding to their woes, but they may be forced to isolate suburbs until the virus is stamped out.

                27

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                yeah but heres the thing…we arent dealing with ebola, are we?

                HCQ and Ivemectin have been blocked deliberately, so its vaccine ir no vaccine, and the gumint is literally hell bent on jabbing everyone. We know the globalists who want massive depopulation, control gumints.So we shouldnt be surprised that we are seeing a draconian push to push vaccicide upon people.

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              • #
                el gordo

                I don’t believe all that guff about globalists.

                You have the freedom to reject the jab, we stand shoulder to shoulder on that.

                08

      • #
        John of Sunbury

        PeterS when I saw your post I thought that couldn’t be true. So I did the search myself (https://apps.tga.gov.au/Prod/daen/daen-entry.aspx)

        In the first 4 months of this year 9420 adverse effects cases reported for covid vaccines. Of the 9420, cases involving a single suspected medicine is 9362 (99.4%).

        Cases where death is the reported outcome: 59

        In the same period 01 Jan 2021 – 01 May 2021 Australia reported 1 death with COVID

        What am I missing here? Why are the media not reporting this?

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          PeterS

          It’s pretty obvious our so called health officials and politicians with the backing of the MSM are leaving out so much of the truth (ie, censorship) that what’s left is not only worthless information but in the public sphere it ends up being no different to telling out right lies. Also, I can’t believe the health officials don’t know the same information as what’s on that database. In that sense they are deliberately lying to the politicians and as a result the politicians are either knowingly or otherwise passing the lies to the public. I don’t understand why people like Alan Jones is not right on this one. I intend to send him a note as he’s probably not even aware of it.

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        • #
          PeterS

          No doubt too they will attempt to put some spin on it to try and explain it away. They can’t because the figures are there for all to see. There is now no doubt in my mind we are being told lies by officialdom. They really do not deserve to be in office, and it could be argued as some already have that they ought to be arrested and put behind bars. I won’t labour on that point because it won’t happen, at least not for a long while.

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        • #
          PeterS

          It’s worth noting it is ambiguous as to how they list the reported deaths as they might be doubled up. Even so when I look at the latest month’s figures on that database, which is not yet finalised for some reason, during the period 01/05/2021 – 07/05/2021 there were 30 deaths attributed to COVID-19 vaccines, of which 6 resulted in cardiac arrests, 5 from Dyspnoea, 5 from Adverse event following immunisation, etc. Someone please tell me what am I missing here, if anything.

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            PeterS

            Also note that during the same period as far as I know NO DEATHS WERE REPORTED DUE TO THE VIRUS ITSELF.

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        • #
          Tilba Tilba

          Cases where death is the reported outcome: 59
          In the same period 01 Jan 2021 – 01 May 2021 Australia reported 1 death with COVID
          What am I missing here? Why are the media not reporting this?

          We need to know the percentages, it seems. The reported 59 deaths out of how many total vaccination jabs, and the reported Covid-19 deaths out of how many cases? I expect there were many more jabs than new cases, and that trend is no doubt continuing.

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          • #
            Serp

            You’re kidding. Expressed as a percentage the fifty-nine deaths may indeed vanish but we’ll be none the wiser. Why this mischievous suggestion?

            50

          • #
            PeterS

            What are you talking about? Percentages have nothing to do with it. I just proved using the available official information for both the COVID-19 vaccine related deaths and the COVID-19 related deaths, and the former far exceed the latter by a country mile for the same period. What more proof do you need?

            30

    • #
      another ian

      Remember this?

      “If it looks like a duck,
      Walks like a duck and
      Quacks like a duck

      Factcheckers will tell you it is a squirrel”

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    • #
      Fuel Filter

      Here’s a short, but very sweet op-ed from Senator Dr. Rand Paul from Kentucky. I’m not gonna quote any excerpts lest I bet into trouble 👿 with the censors, or with Jo. So please click the link and read for yourselves…

      https://www.zerohedge.com/political/they-cant-arrest-us-all-sen-rand-paul-urges-americans-resist-pelosi-petty-tyrants

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      • #

        “You can fool some of the people all the time and all of the people some of the time but you can’t fool all the people all the time”

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  • #
    Robber

    It would seem that while cases continue, death rates are down.
    For example, in 2021:
    USA avge daily cases 78,000, avge deaths/day 1478, in July 420
    UK 17,000; deaths 270 to 80
    France 21,000; deaths 270 to 85
    Sweden 3,800 to 800; deaths 19 to 1
    Japan 3,700 to 8,000, deaths 66 to 10

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    • #
      TIP

      Question – is the death rate expected to fall as

      1. the vulnerable population thins
      2. treatment both preventative and post infection improves
      3. the dominate strain becomes delta (or a subsequent less deadly strain)

      If this is correct – then how can vax be credited for lowering the death rate – is it performing even lower than reported.?

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      • #
        PeterS

        All of the above. Also, natural immunity is a factor, possibly even the biggest factor.

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        • #
          Earl

          And group 4. Un-vaxed actively self-immunising Vit-D, Iver/oxy etc.

          Of course there is little to no way of getting accurate numbers of these which plays into the hands of those pushing the vax so it will be interesting to see if the reports of supposed anti-vaxers who die will start to report on what alternative measures the person was taking as an added means of discrediting vax opposition – not only were they not vaxed BUT they were taking xyz.

          The latest MSM report covering deaths in England mentions how one, Leslie Lawrenson, refused the vax preferring to rely on his own immune system. Of the other two mentioned, David Parker seems to be your average food and beer loving gent and John Eyers is described as super-fit so he may have been on some supplements. John however had asthma which tends to negate the fitness element.

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          • #
            PeterS

            True, although what we can now be certain of is according to the government’s own database far more people are dying due to the COVID-19 vaccine than due to the virus itself. To turn it around our state officials will either have to admit they got their figures wrong and far more people are dying from the vaccines that they say, or the federal government have their figures wrong and the reported deaths due to the vaccines are a mistake. Someone please tell me which is it.

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        • #
          Hanrahan

          Peter, are you suggesting that many of us have an acquired immunity from corona viruses in previous flu seasons?

          10

          • #

            Princess cruise line demonstrates this. About 1000 people in shared room of about 100 sq feet. In most one or the other was infected. In many cases only one got sick or died. In many the other never even had symptoms.

            30

            • #
              Graeme No.3

              The Diamond Princess (the first cruise ship to hit the headlines) 83% of the passengers never got infected. Of the 17% who did get infected, not quite half (48 ±2%) didn’t get any symptoms.
              The passengers were strongly concentrated in the 60-80 age group (about 1920), and curiously had a lower infection rate than those in the 20-50 age group (about 1,000). And three-quarters of the oldest group, those over eighty (about 210), didn’t get the virus.
              There were a total of 7 deaths among those on board. All of them were in people over seventy.

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              • #
                Analitik

                Yes and this was with the far more dangerous, if less infectious, Alpha variant.

                50

              • #
                Chris

                Graeme, where did you get these figures from? My data is somewhat similar, it shows that 3700 people were on board the Diamond Princess – 1100 crew and 2600 passengers.
                712 tested positive
                340 were asymptomatic, of the remaining 372 , 46 were hospitalised and from these 9 died on board and another 4 died after they returned home.

                The first Covid death in WA was a man from the Diamond Princess.
                At the time I thought this was an ideal Petri dish , as the ship had been at sea for 2 weeks and quarantined for another 2 weeks. The food, kitchen and cleaning showed no sign of the virus as people were confined. This suggested that the virus could be carried through the air conditioning. However I was never able to find if that avenue of transmission was checked out.

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      • #
        Analitik

        Sorry TIP, tiny phone screen had me hit the red thumb when trying for the green

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    • #
      Plain Jane

      Also remember in the USA orange man is no longer in, so case numbers must fall.

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    • #
      David A

      Don’t forget the seasonal component. One year ago the UK had considerably fewer cases and deaths, with zero vaccinated and reduced herd immunity.
      This was after the first wave.

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      RickWill

      The vaccine no doubt affords much better outcome.

      The people who are not vaccinated are far more likely to spread the virus because they get severe symptoms. I give anyone who is coughing or sneezing a wide berth. The risk with vaccinated spreaders is that they are not as evident. All that means is you cannot let your guard down.

      The vaccine is not a cure. It is simply another control. It does not eliminate the risk of catching and spreading the virus. It reduces both but has a dramatic reduction in death rate.

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        PeterS

        The government’s own database proves you wrong. I challenge you to correct me. See my other posts.

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        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        I think you’re wrong on this one RW:
        ” The people who are not vaccinated are far more likely to spread the virus because they get severe symptoms. ”
        If I remember the numbers correctly over 97% of those infected didn’t even know they had been, or only had mild symptoms, and until widespread testing became the norm they were just sent home without treatment. And no symptoms, no test.
        It seemed to me their immune systems were up to handling it, and they now have a high level of immunity. Even to Delta.
        Cheers
        Dave B

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        Analitik

        The vaccine no doubt affords much better outcome

        Only in the short term. These gene therapy spike protein vaccines are leaky and short lived so we will never meet the dream goal of eradicating the disease using them and run the very real risk of ADE producing a lethal mutation if we rely on them and engage in a red queen race with revised versions to deal with variants.

        The virus never goes away and does not mutate to more benign, if more infectious, variants if the use of these “vaccines” continues and is widespread

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        • #
          RickWill

          Look at the data from the actual Pfizer study:
          https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v1.full.pdf
          Go to page 15 and look at the chart. Blue curve is unvaccinated. Over 6 months the incidence of infection just continues to climb. Now look at the red curve. It flatlines after 12 days. Two populations drawn from solar groups. Yet one group just continue getting the infection at the same rate. The other group has complete drop off in infection rate.

          If everyone in the population were vaccinated at once, the experience would be even better than the red curve because infection rate of the population goes below one. That is all that is needed to eradicate the virus – maintain the infection rate below one.

          Melbourne has managed to get the infection rate below 1 on 5 occasions by following strict isolation protocols. The vaccine gets it under 1 without draconian controls – as the study clearly shows.

          08

          • #
            Analitik

            Again, that followup report was performed prior to the Delta variant evolving so the efficacy of the gene therapy spike protein vaccines at lowering infection rate is now far lower.

            Possibly, your scenario for eliminating the SARS-CoV-2 virus would have succeeded with the original Alpha variant. It is fantasy now.

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          • #
            David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

            Oh, come on RW,
            Some unbiased data please.
            I’d prefer to see independent data, published and peer reviewed to gold standard and all those beaut concepts.
            Cheers
            Dave B

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          • #

            LOL
            RickWill if you really believe that “Melbourne has managed to get the infection rate below 1 on 5 occasions by following strict isolation protocols. The vaccine gets it under 1 without draconian controls – as the study clearly shows.”
            then why are the vaccinated in Melbourne under the same draconian lockdown rules as the unvaccinated?

            10

  • #
    Ruairi

    It seems that the same viral load,
    Is on vaxed and unvaxed bestowed,
    When a mutating strain,
    Will its functioning gain,
    Then go into transmission mode.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    It has been proposed to have a third injection of the mRNA agents or even an unlimited number of followup injections as the claimed “protection” wears off.

    What are the possible adverse consequences of having an unlimited number of mRNA injections, if any?

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    • #
      PeterS

      I believe the appropriate term would be death by injection.

      250

      • #
        David Maddison

        Here is a paper, not specific to covid, discussing how imperfect vaccines can lead to more virulent pathogens.

        We are headed for a global disaster.

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516275/

        Could some vaccines drive the evolution of more virulent pathogens? Conventional wisdom is that natural selection will remove highly lethal pathogens if host death greatly reduces transmission. Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission could thus allow very virulent strains to circulate in a population.

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      • #
        Grogery

        Death by injection

        Sounds like a good name for an Agatha Christie novel.

        70

        • #
          PeterS

          A movie along similar lines to what is happening today has already been made – V of Vendetta. As usual there are also stark differences. Still, there are so many parallels I wonder sometimes if officialdom today have studied it to see how they could tweak things to make it work better. Personally I doubt it as they aren’t that clever – however the real puppet masters behind the scenes no doubt are.

          I like these quotes in the movie:

          “People shouldn’t be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.”

          “Artists use lies to tell the truth. Yes, I created a lie. But because you believed it, you found something true about yourself.”

          “Since mankind’s dawn, a handful of oppressors have accepted the responsibility over our lives that we should have accepted for ourselves. By doing so, they took our power. By doing nothing, we gave it away. We’ve seen where their way leads, through camps and wars, towards the slaughterhouse.”

          “They say that life’s a game, & then they take the board away.”

          “Our masters have not heard the people’s voice for generations and it is much, much louder than they care to remember.”

          “Evey Hammond: Who are you?
          V: Who? Who is but the form following the function of what and what I am is a man in a mask.
          Evey Hammond: Well I can see that.
          V: Of course you can. I’m not questioning your powers of observation I’m merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is”

          “There’s no flesh or blood within this cloak to kill. There’s only an idea. Ideas are bulletproof.”

          “Authority, when first detecting chaos at its heels, will entertain the vilest schemes to save its orderly facade.”

          ― Alan Moore, V for Vendetta

          50

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            A conversation with a relative that revolved around getting fed up being under Victorian house arrest:

            “Were sick of it

            “But have you protested?

            “You get arrested if you protest

            “If 100,000 people protest peacefully, they cant arrest you all. Ghandi drove the British out that way….and if you let it happen you’re agreeing to being abused.

            “um…..

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    • #
      Yonniestone.

      This is a question I asked on the Vitamin D thread that Another Ian answered regarding my daughters vaccinations, it can come down to how a serology test is done and what your testing for, with the long term effects of an experimental medicine there seems to be plenty of willing guinea pigs for that experiment, the only hindrance will be running out of stock.

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      • #
        PeterS

        We won’t run out of stock just by any pandemic, whether it’s the result of this one morphing into a much more serious one, or as a result of the experimental vaccines, or as a result (most likely) of another completely new pandemic some time in the future, deliberate or otherwise. When the real pandemic strikes, I surmise about 2 billion people will die. The rest will survive but for so many of them the world will not be worth living for, if you know what I mean (ie, Biblical).

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        • #
          Tilba Tilba

          When the real pandemic strikes, I surmise about 2 billion people will die. The rest will survive but for so many of them the world will not be worth living for, if you know what I mean (ie, Biblical).

          Your doomer-paranoid view of everything works at a pretty dramatic level, it must be said. What is the point? Why not just enjoy life … go sailing, play golf, have a chilled Chardonnay.

          I’m not being flippant – I literally do not see the point of living life with such a dark, end-of-the-world, pessimistic outlook. Can’t do you a single bit of good, and it totally mucks up your perspective on everything.

          19

          • #
            GD

            Why not just enjoy life … go sailing, play golf, have a chilled Chardonnay

            Because our clueless state governments repeatedly lock us down and issue draconian fines if we don’t!

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            • #
              el gordo

              I support the authorities use of draconian measures if a subculture misbehaves to the detriment of the majority.

              08

              • #
                PTR

                “I support the authorities use of draconian measures if a subculture misbehaves to the detriment of the majority.” Is called dumbing down

                80

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘ … simplified so as to be intellectually undemanding and accessible to a wide audience.’ (wiki)

                It is what it is.

                04

  • #
    David Maddison

    Concerning the Israeli data showing only 16% of vaccinated people were “protected” from infection after 6 months, how do we know that the vaccine protected even those small number? Might those people be protected for sone other reason such as having adequate vitamin D levels?

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    • #
      PeterS

      Also natural immunity. Don’t forget that the vast majority of cases resulted in no or minor illnesses.

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      • #
        TIP

        Another point to note, down the track – all the breakthrough cases, become covid recovered and subsequently have naturally acquired immunity, but moving forward i presume these people will forever be counted as vaxed and not naturally immune…..”increasing” the perceived future success of the vax or boosters when it may (likely) have been natural immunity.

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        • #
          PeterS

          Also the risks associated with the vaccines themselves, present and future, are and will forever remain an important factor. The only option any sensible and thinking person has is to assess the situation and make the decision on being vaccinated based on the balance of probabilities and risk factors (an in my case I will be attempting to sue Bayesian statistics as and when sufficient data come forth).

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  • #
    David Maddison

    A perfect storm is being created by the roll out of nearly useless “vaccines” for the evolution of an unstoppable mutation of the China virus. The CCP bioweapons engineers won’t even have to bother developing version 2.0.

    I just wish there was a politician with influence or a genuine questioning scientist or medical professional that had a clue and wasn’t subservient to the decrees of the World Homicide Organisation and CCP propaganda.

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    • #
      PeterS

      I just wished there was a whistleblower like the biochemist Jeffrey Wigand who took down all the tobacco companies.

      80

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘ … the evolution of an unstoppable mutation of the China virus.’

      That is our worst nightmare, but I’m confident Oz will be relatively unscathed if we can stop aliens entering.

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      • #
        PeterS

        They are not stopping them. Here are the official stats:
        Provisional estimates of overseas trips in June 2021 show:
        A total of 103,500 arrivals
        40,500 Australian citizens arrivals (39%), 9,100 permanent visa holders (9%), 43,800 New Zealand citizens (42%) and 10,900 temporary visa holders (11%)

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        • #
          el gordo

          They will go into quarantine, no problem. In those stats we see the development of the Trans Tasman Bubble.

          010

    • #
      Steve of Cornubia

      I’m sure such ‘whistleblowers’ exist, but in today’s digital world where people can be cancelled overnight and channels to widespread communication are controlled by the Leftist elites, they simply wouldn’t get any traction.

      The only time any message gets amplified enough to penetrate the consciousness of the masses is when the mainstream media pick it up so, if they choose to ignore it, then it didn’t happen, nothing to see here.

      OTOH, if any crony medical ‘expert/scientist/journalist/artist/actor/comedian’ says something supporting the approved agenda, we ALL get to hear about it.

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      • #
        PeterS

        That has crossed my mind. Jeffrey Wigand had to endure a lot of pain and frustration. It might might be enough to put a repeat today and so we will never know the full truth. All we can do is see and understand the sign posts as we speed down the motorway to a NWO so we can at least be prepared as best we can for the worst. Better than keeping ones eyes closed and hoping for the best.

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  • #
    WokeBuster

    Basically nothing more than proof of compliance, a way of monitoring your future mandatory vaccine status and a first step in implementing a global health regime run by the likes of Gates and Fauci. Too bad if you hate needles.

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    • #
      Klem

      Currently being fully vaccinated means having two shots. But in the next few months a third shot will be requied to be considered fully vacinated. Once everyone has had three shots they will be considered fully vaccinated again, but eventually a fourth shot will be required to be fully vaccinated. And the cycle repeats. See how that works?

      I’m already hearing talk of a fifth shot.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    It will soon come to be that “vaccines” will be mandatory or the unvaccinated will be subject to such widespread restrictions they won’t be able to participate in society. (The legality or otherwise won’t bother any government because we are now ruled by decree rather than law.)

    Why not give an option of vaccination of those who want to be…

    OR

    Prophylaxis according to the Zelenko Protocol or the Ivermectin prophylaxis protocol (whose name escapes me). Both with Vit D and both protocols could be confirmed with a random blood or urine test (presence of HCQ or Ivermectin).

    I also wonder how a combined HCQ/IVM therapy for treatment of C-19 would work?

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘ … the unvaccinated will be subject to such widespread restrictions they won’t be able to participate in society.’

      Social pariahs, turned away from supermarkets because they don’t own a mobile.

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      • #
        PeterS

        You don’t have to have a mobile to gain entry. There is provision to record your entry in a log book.

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        • #
          Plain Jane

          Until there is not.

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          • #
            PeterS

            In which case I and millions of others will have to grow our own food. Probably not a bad idea anyway.

            140

            • #
              David Maddison

              Few people are in a position of being able to grow a year-round supply of food for themselves. And even that requires extensive inputs of various supplies.

              180

              • #
                PeterS

                Agree but in my situation I do have a “way out” or Plan B.

                40

              • #
                el gordo

                Hydroponics?

                11

              • #
                GD

                Reply to Peter S:

                in my situation I do have a “way out” or Plan B.

                What? A prepper bunker with enough supplies, water and air to last twenty years, or an island in the Pacific with a water source and supplies to last a long time, with your own satellite in orbit for internet?

                Nice.

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        • #
          Earl

          Entry record books are actually not quite that readily available. Social Services for example make you wait outside until someone comes out with a tablet and records your visit on that. The potential for this arrangement is that since you are attending something to do with the department they have your recorded detail and putting in your name/address will bring up that record. Hit the corresponding button that records your “non co-operation” by not having a mobile phone and you lose some social points…. do that too many times and you lose some $$$ from your pension or whatever.

          Not saying this is happening now just noting that the foundations are there for future increased control and punishment.

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          • #
            el gordo

            After the Robo Debt fiasco the government, through their minions, are going out of their way to be kind to people. This is a nice change from Centrelink’s usual MO.

            12

        • #
          GD

          There is provision to record your entry in a log book

          I’ve signed some of those ‘log books’. In some cases, I couldn’t recognise any address on the page. Perhaps they were written in another language, or more likely .. gobbledegook.

          Ordinary people may be scared to protest in the streets, but they find other ways.

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    • #
      Destroyer D69

      Pfizer reported to be developing an oral treatment. Some wag with a sense of the truth, and irony, suggests that the trade mark will be “PFIZERMECTIN”

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      • #
        Konrad

        And a Finish bio-tech company has just been awarded a US patent for a “novel” nasal spray for the Fauci Flu. Two of the three main ingredients: HCQ and Ivermectin.

        160

        • #
          David Maddison

          The other ingredient is aprotinin, which is normally used to reduce bleeding during heart and liver surgery.

          50

        • #
          GD

          A Finish bio-tech company has just been awarded a US patent for a “novel” nasal spray for the Fauci Flu. Two of the three main ingredients: HCQ and Ivermectin

          And so it begins. What we used to be able to buy for a couple of bucks will now cost a lot more. Governments that pushed the vaccines will have a way out with these rebadged drugs.

          And nobody will be held responsible for the adverse effects and deaths caused by the vaccines.

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      • #
  • #
    RicDre

    Another brilliant performance by Mr. Biden:

    Joe Biden Botches Vaccination Numbers Twice, Even After Looking at His Notes

    The White House
    CHARLIE SPIERING 6 Aug 2021

    President Joe Biden falsely claimed at the White House on Friday that 350 million Americans have been vaccinated, twice bungling his statistics after looking at his notes.

    “You know, we have roughly 350 million people vaccinated in the United States and billions around the world,” Biden said after looking at his note card provided by White House staff.

    Approximately 165 million Americans have been fully vaccinated, according to the latest numbers from the Centers for Disease Control. Currently, 349 million vaccine shots have been administered.

    But Biden made the same mistake after looking at his notes again.

    “I said, well over … what is the number again? I have to remind myself. … 350 million Americans have already been vaccinated,” he said.

    There are only about 328.2 million Americans in the United States, according to the latest Census Bureau estimates.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    How we (Australia, the scared little UN and WHO subservient Nanny State) is seen overseas. Here is some commentary from Dave Rubin of The Rubin Report. https://youtu.be/kqrJTmfloO8 (Under 7 mins.)

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    • #
      Lowell from Seattle

      I wonder from overseas what exactly is your plan to transition from the safe society your under to an after lock down environment. Any transition because of infections of both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated is going to lead to a minimum of hundreds maybe thousands of deaths during the transition. If you gals cant even take one death due to covid you might as well stay in basements for the rest of your life.

      Covid is going to be fellow traveler with the human race. The vaccines will only reduce deaths for those who want to take booster shots for the rest of their lifes. When Fauci and Pfizer recommend booster shots they are doubling down on an untested strategy. They are gamblers with your life. They act more like investors that hold on to a bad investment hoping it will turnaround. Without testing we do not know if vaccine booster shots will work or if they will leave you in a worse situation.

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    • #
      another ian

      Some other observations in “Other Matters” and comments here

      https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2021/08/06/friends-of-australia-friday-6-august-2021/

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  • #
    R.B.

    Using data from World meter.

    In July last year, the US had 70 000 cases a day, 7 day moving mean at the end of July, with 1.5 M active cases.

    At the end of July this year, there was a little over 5 M active cases and just under 100 000 new cases a day. It suggests vaccinations work to some degree but if it were touted by Trump, it would be classified as a failure.

    https://twitter.com/JamieRJN/status/1423521420815044609?s=20

    Deaths in early August last year were about 1000 a day last year in early August. They are now just under 450. While it looks significant, many of those at severe risk have already succumbed. That would be enough reasoning to scrub claims of effectiveness if HCQ.

    What is really weird is that US daily cases exploded after Oct 20 and the 7 day moving mean peaks at January 11. It then plummets to less than a half within a month, less than what it is now, after the innaugeration or the start of roll out of a barely effective vaccine?

    This stinks of deliberate spread of infection.

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    • #
      PeterS

      or simply some or most of them are due to the common flu as it was flu season at the time. Same here now in Australia. Don’t forget, the CDC admitted the PCR test can’t be trusted to tell the difference between the flu and the COVID-19 virus.

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      • #
        R.B.

        I know never to attribute to a conspiracy what might be incompetence, but flu season gets worse in mid January. It doesn’t take many extreme left to spread something like that around.

        22

    • #
      RickWill

      What is really weird is that US daily cases exploded after Oct 20 and the 7 day moving mean peaks at January 11.

      I recall a good number of commentators forecasting rapid increase in cases in USA as crowds and demonstrations built before and after the 2020 election. Seems they got it right. Cases peaked at 300k on 8 Jan 2021 and deaths peaked at 4,300 on 21st January.

      Cases fell dramatically once the demonstrations ended and vaccine started rolling out. Cases now rising again as restrictions are lifted but death rate down to about 10% of the peak.

      25

      • #
        Analitik

        Cases are also rising as the vaccination antibody levels wane. The gene therapy spike protein vaccines do not promote a strong T-cell response so the protection provided does not last.

        Also, since they only produce circulatory igG antibodies and no mucosal igA antibodies, they do not prevent infection. They only help the body fight an infection once it has been established. The gene therapy spike protein vaccines INNOCULATE but do not IMMUNIZE

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  • #
    Phillip Charles Sweeney

    You do not “catch” COVID-19

    You may become infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus and become an asymptomatic carrier and spreader.

    Some people who are infected with the virus develop symptoms of the disease – COVID-19. There is a very low risk for healthy people under the age of 60 who do develop symptoms and safe treatments are available such as Ivermectin, however, these safe treatments are suppressed by the Health Establishment.

    If you are over 60 with other health issues then you have a higher risk of COVID-19.

    Current so-called COVID-19 ‘vaccines’ do not provide “steralising immunity” (ie killing the virus as does the Measles vaccine) – they only reduce symptoms in some people.

    This creates a new class of “super-spreaders” and this is why COVID-19 cases are increasing in the most vaccinated countries such as Iceland and Israel.

    Mass vaccination with “vaccines” that do not kill the virus provides the PERFECT environment for the SARS-CoV-2 virus to mutate into more lethal variants as the virus is challenged by these imperfect vaccines but lives on and is not killed.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Sounds very much like the common flu.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Point of clarification. I am not suggesting that COVID-19 is the flu. I do believe COVID-19 is real. I’m just saying the effects are very similar. Even the death rates are similar; 745 flu related deaths reported to the National Notifiable Diseases Surveillance System (NNDSS) nationally for 2017.

        So the hysteria over the COVID-19 pandemic is over the top and there is an ulterior motive behind all this.

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    • #
      Forrest Gardener

      Agreed but why would the virus mutate into a more lethal strain rather than a more benign strain?

      70

      • #
        Konrad

        It didn’t evolve naturally and retains wide evolutionary latitude.

        60

      • #
        Lucky

        This is an important question.
        Viruses evolve randomly. Normally the more benign survive better as their host victims live longer.
        But if the vax prolongs life of the host victim, both lethal and benign mutants survive.
        Which will predominate? The math is tricky, Markov chains?
        I’d do it by modelling with different parameters.

        It is fairly certain that the lethal strain will now, with the leaky vax, keep going longer than without leaky vaxs.

        60

      • #

        good question Forest Gardener
        “why would the virus mutate into a more lethal strain rather than a more benign strain?”
        because the virus should not, as it mutates it should become weaker although more transmissible

        this is what we should be worried about IMHO
        https://www.breakthroughs.com/advancing-medical-research/how-do-viruses-mutate-and-what-it-means-vaccine

        regards Mark

        10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Nice little rant from a conservative in response to a Leftist proposition to ditch unvaccinated friends.

    “Time to Ditch Unvaccinated Friends? WTF!”.

    https://youtu.be/8R2ShtHTf3A

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    • #
      PeterS

      So be it. I don’t care too much with some of my vaccinated “friends” or even relatives 🙂
      Sadly, it’s one way to start a civil war though. If anyone thinks that’s too far fetched, look back in history.

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  • #
    david

    I still don’t understand why antivirals are rarely mentioned in control of Covid.It’s all about vaccines, lockdowns, masks,self isolation,etc
    Surely there is a case for antivirals, not just as a last resort in hospitals, but in so far uninfected people and very early stages of infection?

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    • #
      PeterS

      You don’t get it. Such alternative treatments don’t make billions of dollars for Big Pharma and the hysteria over the pandemic is purely designed to strip away most if not all of our freedoms because put simply our governments have become drunk with power.

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    • #
      redress

      David….
      Scott Morrison answered that when a reported asked him why the rapid antigen test was not being made available to the general public…..”Because we would loose control of the tracing system”. Its all about control.
      If the antivirals were allowed out into the system for general use then the “vaccinated vs unvaccinated” argument would become redundant.

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    • #
      C. Paul Barreira

      The question is a good one, a very good one in fact. That it has to be asked is discouraging in itself.

      Control—social, political (per PeterS)—may be a factor but how has it come about? The point made by redress is one specific example but, again, it shows the weakness of thought at the highest levels. Why not allow home testing? That, in the event of a positive result, being followed by some officially recognised test that then makes use of the “tracing system”.

      The other level of control is, to me at least, very difficult to identify. Do medical textbooks possess any identifiable ideological traits that, implicitly at the least, discourage questioning?

      A parallel occurs in historical writing in Oz. An article in the Encyclopedia of the First World War, an enormous European online production (here) contains several articles on mourning and bereavement. The one from Australia (here) illustrates my point. Two phrases in this article are false yet they define the substance of the article. These falsehoods tell of two very significant prejudices of Australian historicism for the period of the Great War. Two other terms, each with its own meaning every where else, are used interchangeably thus distorting their meanings and the historical reconstruction.

      Do any medical texts or seminal offerings on particular subjects of medicine do something similar?

      More positively, has any government leader contemplated hiring someone, very well-trained (no less than PhD) plus experience in medicine, as devil’s advocate?

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    Raving

    Liverpool apartment block locked down as 14 residents confirmed positive to COVID-19

    All residents of the block have been deemed close contacts and will have to isolate for 14 days and undergo repeat testing inside their apartments.

    Police and private security are on site to ensure compliance with food and other services being provided to residents.

    This is more severe than how it is in Canada

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    • #
      RickWill

      Sydney is still fiddling at the fringes. Melbourne locked down apartment buildings housing hundreds of people with guards on every floor to make certain people stayed inside. The government supplied food and essential supply packages; bacon in the packages did not go well though with most of the residents.

      The most effective controls were work permits for approved essential workers, night time curfew and 5km travel limit for everyone apart from essential workers. Night time curfew made policing much easier. There were no work permits issued to robbers, drug dealers, sex workers or contract killers so those activities were dramatically reduced. Police stopped any car on the roads after 10pm and asked for work permit – big fines or jail if none produced.

      Melbourne has eliminated roaming spreaders 5 times. Now on the 6th round. Until Delta got out in Sydney, Melbourne was in good shape with no Covid restrictions.

      Melbourne now knows how to avoid Covid hospitalisations and Covid related death even when the border controls fail.

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      • #
        Raving

        There seems to be a lot of rivalry between states!

        I thought Australians were laid back and easy going

        50

        • #
          el gordo

          We are fairly easy going, big island syndrome.

          There has always been rivalry between Melbourne and Sydney, which is why the Australian Capital Territory is situated mid way.

          54

      • #
        Analitik

        Sydney must be at the verge of giving up and letting the population deal with infection. Can’t happen too soon, especially since this is the much more benign Delta variant that is spreading.

        72

        • #
          Serp

          That’s not the direction they’re heading. Australian state governments have developed a taste for imprisoning their constituents. Victoria has experienced sixteen weeks in a single tranche last year and appears to be heading into more of the same. Five to fifteen years of this according to Iceland’s chief epidemiologist. We’ll have plenty of time to think…

          20

        • #
          WXcycles

          Delta strain growth began in Indian numbers on Feb 15th, 2021, with 146 people per million mortality on that day.

          Today, six months later, Indian mortality stands at 307 people per million.

          So the Indian mortality rate doubled due to the Delta strain taking over.

          How much clearer could it be that the assertion the Delta strain is innocuous, is a clearly despicable LIE.

          The evidence we have in the India situation is Delta strain was just over twice as lethal as the earlier strains in that circumstance. The mortality rate goes up sharply when a hospital fails to operate due to being swamped by an exponential growth of life-threatening cases at once. That is what Delta does better than prior strains. So just stop fanning confirmation-bias with such clear lies about the Delta strain being “innocuous”. In the Indian context it was far more deadly than the prior strains, and that’s likely to be repeated in scores of countries in the next 6 months.

          10

          • #
            Analitik

            You just pointed out that India’s hospitals were swamped so the death rate rose sure to triage being necessary there. Our medical resources per capita are far better than theirs so it won’t come to that. The UK is a better comparison and they found far lower levels of hospitalizations and deaths due to the Delta variant vs the original Alpha this year.

            Then India turned to distributing ivermectin so the case and mortality rate plummeted. Now they approach true here immunity from the numbers that have recovered from COVID-19 and it’s effectively background noise in their health figures for hospitalisations and mortality.

            We should have enough information from their experiences to deal with Delta without lockdowns and eased border restrictions

            31

            • #
              WXcycles

              Now they approach true here immunity from the numbers

              that have recovered from COVID-19 and it’s effectively background noise in their health figures for hospitalisations and mortality.

              From “the numbers” huh?

              Delta is a lethal disease, it genuinely kills people, so stop misleading people that it doesn’t. Clearly the number of cases in India were very low, Delta barely got a hold in India in absolute terms. Only a tiny fraction of the population are known to have caught it to date. Your assertion that “true herd immunity” now exists is totally absurd, beyond laughable. Here are the “numbers”:

              INDIA
              Population = 1,394,901,748
              Total of known COVID19 cases to date = 31,969,588 (all strains)
              Total of potential “true herd immunity” in India right now is = 2.3% of the population!

              Just 2.3%, and maybe ~4 times as many who were asymptomatic, so why are you desperate to lie to yourself about this, and to mislead others with such baloney? And you claim it on the basis of the numbers? You clearly did not even look at the numbers.

              Very disappointing.

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      • #
        Wirebird

        So why is Sydney refusing to learn from Melbourne?

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        • #
          RickWill

          So why is Sydney refusing to learn from Melbourne?

          You have answered your own question – because it is Sydney.

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          • #
            Wirebird

            Found an answer on Twitter that seems believable: NSW not doing a real lockdown (as done in the rest of Australia, especially Melbourne) is ‘the compromise that prevents NSW Cabinet from splitting. If the Premier went for full Stage 4 lockdown across the city, her Cabinet would roll her.’

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            • #
              Analitik

              Meanwhile, the Victorian lockdown is driven by the need to protect the population of politicians and public servants whose careers could suffer severe damage or even early demise if the public perceives that the government is not in full control of the situation.

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              • #
                Serp

                Dan of the lost OBOR enjoys the support of his supine cabinet with ministers so abject they waited three months without demur while he took a sickie.

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      • #
        GD

        Melbourne now knows how to avoid Covid hospitalisations and Covid related death even when the border controls fail

        It’s not Melbourne, it’s the destructive Victorian government. They certainly ‘know’ how to avoid Covid issues, they simply close, shut down, and bankrupt any small business still standing.

        Works like a charm every lockdown.

        Soon there won’t be any small businesses left in Victoria and voila! there will be less need to shut down.

        Following the guidelines from the Great Reset:

        You won’t own anything, and you will be happy.

        Chairman Dan is following his orders as instructed.

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        • #
          el gordo

          Most small businesses will bounce back if their fundamentals are sound.

          ‘Chairman Dan is following his orders as instructed.’

          You’ll need to expand on that, the last I heard the Belt and Road was stopped in its tracks.

          19

          • #
            Analitik

            Many small businesses do not have the cash reserves to pay for the fixed overheads associated with their existence, even if operational costs are zero while closed

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            • #
              el gordo

              The banks understand and are opening their doors to those who need help.

              If the fundamentals are sound, they shouldn’t be too concerned, it’ll all be over by Xmas.

              09

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                You obviously have little understanding of “small business”, and I suspect business in general.

                Farming has problems and difficulties, yes, but city based businesses that are “locked down” taken an extra week to get going again after the lockdown.

                Four weeks of lockdown equals eight weeks of pain. Survival?

                In the former shopping/business areas of our town there’s a mass of clear glass shopfronts with empty premises behind.

                Recovery, maybe Christmas 2028.

                Or maybe it would be easier to just go on the dole and stop trying.

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              • #
                el gordo

                Nothing wrong with going on the dole, the money is good at the moment. Try and be a little optimistic, it will all be over by Xmas in the land of Oz.

                08

              • #
                PeterS

                el gordo you don’t have a clue. Many small business have already gone under, many more are on the brink. What little financial help they are getting won’t be enough to keep up with the bills they still have to pay, and it won’t be enough to help pay back to the bank what money they have borrowed to make ends meet, even if and when things get back to normal. The longer these lock downs continue, on-off-on-off-etc., the more that will go under. BTW, things will never go back to normal. Anyone who thinks we will is completely out of touch with reality. Too much damage has already been done to the economy that it will take decades to repair.

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              • #
                Lucky

                ” it’ll all be over by Xmas.”
                Said many times. It never was.

                40

              • #
                el gordo

                The thing is gentleman, the second wave should be over by Xmas and normalcy will return.

                Also, in the first wave small business was supported, but with the second wave there is no job keeper. So its a shakeout of sorts, and I’m out.

                02

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Is there a holiday cottage somewhere with fifteen steps?

          50

      • #

        RickWill says
        “Melbourne locked down apartment buildings housing hundreds of people with guards on every floor to make certain people stayed inside. The government supplied food and essential supply packages; bacon in the packages did not go well though with most of the residents.”

        now that was when the security guards were caught asleep in the hallways LOL
        that’s when the police refused to be lockdown guards,
        Dandemic refused the help of the ADF and at the time NSW for contract tracing,
        allowing the quarantined to come and go from the quarantine as they pleased starting covid flareups all over Melbourne
        https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1395521717461476
        and to get the ethnic Victoriastanese to test for the kung flu Dan had to pay them $500 LOL
        the good quarantined who stayed in there lockdown covid infested apartments were left with no food, water or medical supplies ect…

        RickWill stop it, just stop will you l cant take it any more LMAO

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  • #
    Tides of Mudgee

    Having watched this video of Dr. Peter McCullough (1h 45m), apologies for not giving credit to who originally posted it, I can’t find the post, but while it is extremely disturbing, it’s a must-watch. Dr. McCullough says that this is NOT about Covid and keeping us healthy, it’s about the vaccination and those stakeholders, and he lists them, Pfizer, Moderna, J & J, Astra Zeneca, CDC, FDA, NIH, The White House, Gates Foundation, WHO. Doctors are tearing their hair out at the suppression of the alternatives, Ivermectin, HCQ etc. but it’s clear that with all those organisations behind this, it will not be heard. Hats off to those brave souls who are prepared to put their heads above the parapet. How has the world come to this? ToM

    https://vimeo.com/553518199

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    • #
      PeterS

      I’ve posted links above highlighting what the agenda is. As you stated it’s not about COVID-19 (be it real or not). It’s about paving the way for a NWO.
      My previous post with links

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      • #
        Yonniestone.

        People should consider this, if it was just about controlling a virus then after the first lock down to assess the situation,

        – Antivirals (proven) would be the first choice over economy destroying lock downs.
        – The most vulnerable in society would be given extra protection from infection and spreading.
        – The resources of police/military would not be wasted on enforcing confusing and contradicting rules.
        – Any need for public quarantine would not be done in densely populated major cities.
        – Government would not prefer an untested vaccine over cheap, proven antivirals.

        The list goes on, please feel free to add as this cannot be understated, and for anyone defending police for ‘just doing their job’ then explain how physical violence which is the second last resort of stopping a crime is being used to control peoples free movement under the guise of ’emergency powers’ that fail all legal requirements of being an actual emergency?

        You could argue there’s always a few bad eggs in every batch but when the numbers of those eggs become a majority then we have a very rotten omelette.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Part of the problem with the vaccines is that Governments have give Big Pharma indemnity from harm caused by the product. They have nothing to lose and no incentive to develop safe or effective vaccines or to develop new ones.

    This article from Oct 2020.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/morrison-government-grants-indemnity-for-covid-19-vaccine-side-effects-20201008-p5636o.html

    Vaccine suppliers given indemnity for ‘inevitable’ side effects

    The Morrison government has given the suppliers of two COVID-19 vaccines indemnity against liability for rare side effects that experts say are “inevitable” when a vaccine is rolled out.

    But the government will not set up a statutory compensation scheme, which the president of the Australian Medical Association, Omar Khorshid, said meant Australians who suffered “extremely rare” side effects from the vaccines would face a tough battle to seek compensation.

    SEE LINK FOR REST

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    • #
      Analitik

      Such is the power of the provisional approval given to these gene therapy spike protein vaccines. A veritable out of jail free card while letting the companies make huge profits that we pay for in taxes

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  • #
    R.B.

    Slightly off topic
    From Media Watch Dog.

    Viewers of Monday’s Four Corners also heard from Dr Katie Attwell who was presented as a “Vaccine Policy Expert”. Dr Attwell is certainly an expert in vaccination policy, but given the subject matter many viewers would have assumed her qualifications included medical training. In fact, Dr Attwell’s honorific stems from her Doctor of Philosophy, which she earned from Murdoch University with her thesis No way out: How Israeli Jewish dissidents attempt to use alternative national identity discourses to connect with their Palestinian other.

    In her capacity as an expert in vaccine policy, Dr Attwell advises the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI). On Four Corners she had this to say on whether ATAGI is responsible for slowing the vaccine rollout.

    Katie Attwell: I think perhaps there has been too much reliance on ATAGI to design policy for a successful rollout. When that’s not their job, their job is to assess the safety and efficacy of vaccines and to consider the available supply. That’s why I think it’s really important that we understand that ATAGI’s remit is narrow and far more narrow than having responsibility for rollout. So, I think the responsibility for rollout does rest with our executive government, it does rest with the Prime Minister and his team to, uh, to be accountable for the decisions that they make.

    This raises the question. If ATAGI has only a narrow responsibility for assessing vaccine safety and efficacy, why are they being advised by a Doctor of Philosophy? Surely Dr Attwell’s expertise in vaccine policy (as opposed to vaccine science) would be of limited use to such a group.

    Why is an extreme leftard on such an important board? The government likes to look as if it doesn’t interfere with independent organisations, but that independence allows the public service to pay for an extreme socialist to make more money than a toilet cleaner while giving nothing to the tax-payers in return. Someone like this is not only unhelpful but detrimental to the roll out.

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  • #
    dinn, rob

    quit being an idiot

    00

  • #
    RicDre

    Vaccination Rates Plummet As More Celebrities Say They Won’t Hang Out With The Unvaccinated

    August 6th, 2021 – BabylonBee.com

    Aniston has vowed to block and cease all communication with the unvaccinated, making a very strong case for never getting the vaccine. Many say they would rather die of COVID than hear from celebrities.

    “So, if I don’t get vaccinated, I never have to hear from Jennifer Aniston ever again? Say no more!” said one man, exiting the line to get the vaccine in front of a Los Angeles clinic. “This is great! Not being vaccinated now seems like one of the best value propositions of all time. Of all time!”

    https://babylonbee.com/news/vaccination-rates-plummet-as-more-celebrates-say-they-wont-hang-out-with-the-unvaccinated?utm_source=Gab&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=Gab

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    • #
      PeterS

      Many say they would rather die of COVID than hear from celebrities.

      Won’t need to. The vast majority of people who are infected by the virus suffer absolutely no symptoms or if they do it’s mild and they get over it in a matter of days. The bonus is they become immune without a vaccine, which are of doubtful use any way not to mention the associated risks, known and unknown. So, the “lucky” ones are those who get the virus and come out fine, which is almost all of them. The figures speak for themselves so there is no way to twist this around and say it’s false. In fact when anyone does try that, say officialdom, they are obviously telling lies.

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      • #
        RicDre

        “The vast majority of people who are infected by the virus suffer absolutely no symptoms … [and] they become immune without a vaccine”

        Yes, but do they become immune to vacuous statements from celebrities? Skipping getting the Wuflu vaccine may provide that immunity and as such, is well worth it.

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        • #
          PeterS

          Yes, anyone who listens to the advice of most celebrities ought to have their heads read while taking their shots just to make sure they have a brain.

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      • #
        Tides of Mudgee

        Trouble is PeterS, there is still an insistence that the vaccination is given to people who have recovered from Covid and have genuine immunity and good antibodies. They don’t want to know – it’s still “you’ve gotta get vaccinated”. There’s no point in applying logic here. As they say, it’s like trying to make sense out of nonsense. ToM

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    • #
      Ronin

      “So, if I don’t get vaccinated, I never have to hear from Jennifer Aniston ever again? Say no more!”.

      LOL

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  • #
    Tides of Mudgee

    Here we go!

    With no public consultation, the NSW minister for digital information, Victor Dominello has announced his plan for the introduction of Vaccine Passports.

    For the first time ever, adults will have to reveal their private health information to strangers just to go shopping for food and live a normal life (cafes, restaurants, cinemas, sporting events, travelling around, children going to school).

    People without a Vaccine Passport will also lose their jobs in many workplaces.
    The privacy and freedom implications of this are huge.

    There are constantly privacy breaches in the database Minister Dominello runs at Service NSW. Now he wants to police society’s movements and access to basic services and employment through the Service NSW App.

    This goes well beyond QR codes, right to your private health information.

    This is to force everyone to be Covid vaccinated, even though many people:

    are waiting for clearer evidence about the safety of these vaccines, especially given that AstraZeneca has led to 6 Australians dying, with a further 90 blood clot episodes and over 28,000 reports of adverse reactions (official Commonwealth TGA data);

    do not want the vaccines pushed upon their children;

    have conscientious objections to vaccines on religious and other grounds; and

    do not support the government holding and controlling so much private information about our lives.

    The NSW Government plan is something you would expect in China or North Korea, not Australia. Just yesterday Premier Berejiklian said the Vaccine Passport was not on their agenda at the moment. The Government cannot even be honest about its intentions.

    It has not even consulted its own MPs about this dictatorial announcement.
    NSW One Nation is opposed to Vaccine Passports. We believe the best approach is to offer the elderly and vulnerable the vaccines they want and allow anyone not wanting vaccines to deal with that risk as responsible adults.

    No one should be punished for their vaccine choices. The vaccine choices of all Australians – whether for or against – should be respected. We must run our own lives rather than being under the control of Big Brother Government.

    In Europe there are massive public protests and riots against Vaccine Passports, especially in France. They are very divisive. Whereas Sweden (which had no lockdowns) will have no Vaccine Passports, living freely. As Australia should.

    Scott Morrison has said that Australia is aiming at 70-80% vaccination to achieve herd immunity so that COVID no longer circulates in the community. Why then are controlling Vaccine Passports needed?

    Why has NSW announced them so early? This is just another government grab for power and control over our lives.

    It’s wrong and unnecessary. One Nation will fight it all the way. ToM

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  • #
    RossP

    How far away are Australia and NZ from this ?

    News from France:

    “Happening in France
    YOU NEED TO READ THIS TO PREPARE FOR WHAT’S COMING

    From France 🇫🇷 (Copied from a friend)
    📢⚠️
    UPDATE:
    Here in France it has gone to the extreme with the “Health” Pass. Last week on the 21st ALL restaurants, bars, coffee shops, and any leisure activities like sporting events, theaters, cinemas, museums, were closed to anyone without “the pass” and all staff at these places are mandated to get the jab to keep their job.

    It is now a 6 Month prison sentence if you are caught inside any of these places without the pass (the man who slapped the president in the face got only 3 months prison time). Business owners will get a fine of 45,000 euros and 1 year prison sentance if they do not comply with the use of “the pass” and force all their employees to get the jab. (If you know France, you can commit murder and have less of a sentence)

    So the result? All the low paid employees quit, they can make more on welfare here. (for now) We can still technically “get take out food” but I just tried last night and every restaurant in our town (that is dine in with take out) has closed their doors due to the lack of staff.

    As of last week ALL doctors, nurses and health industry workers have been mandated to get the jab or lose their license, practice, job, business etc. (ALL health care here is Govt paid positions and there are no private health care Doctors or Hospitals etc.)

    Since the Health care system is state run and funded, it has been run into the ground. All the good doctors left France 5 Years ago, all the hospitals look like they are 3rd world hospitals since there is no money to repair them, half of the equipment doesnt work and not every hospital is stocked with supplies needed for daily needs (masks, gels, disposable gowns etc).

    For 5 years Nurses have been understaffed and doing double the work because the Health care system is nearly bankrupt…. So add to this the mandatory jab.

    So the result? Well they took to the streets by the millions and now all the hospitals just lost another 50% of staff capacity. My doctor just went into early retirement (a.k.a. he quit) and I have yet to find a replacement.

    As of Aug 1st ALL large malls, retail stores and grocery store owners and their staff need to be jabbed and the health pass is required to enter for employees and customers. This would be the equivalent to closing ALL Targets, Walmarts, Costcos, Home Depots, and all major grocery stores. (basically any building over 20,000 squre meters) to those without “the pass”.

    Result.?? Aug 15th Truckers will be going on strike nation wide; Blocking all access roads in and out of Paris.

    Yesterday an entire airport in Northern France closed due to the majority of staff quitting.

    As of Sept 15th All public areas and access will be off limits. No farmers markets, no parks, no national parks, lakes, rivers, beaches, recreation areas, campsites etc. and no gathering over 100 people, no churches, no weddings, etc.

    As of Oct 1st ALL small vendors such as, delis, pizza trucks, sandwich shops, butchers, bakers, vegatable stands etc.

    So as of Oct 1st I will only be able to purchase food by internet and pick up (if allowed).

    Food shortages, Truckers strike, hospitals and airports shutting down unemployment going through the roof. Its going to be a bumpy ride folks.

    Is it me or does all this seem a bit extreme for a “pass” that isn’t exactly working?

    America England Australia New Zealand you’d better wake up”

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    • #
      PeterS

      It was inevitable. The writing was on the wall months ago when they kept promising the lockdowns over there were only temporary. So far it appears we are following the exact tame pattern – only we are just a few weeks to months behind them. The question though is will the reaction to such draconian measures, if repeated here, be the same? Time will tell.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Oh, as for the “pass” aka vaccine passport in anyone’s language, the answer is it might work but it will require martial law to be instigated. The reason they are doing it is now obvious. As explained a number of times before it has nothing to do with the COVID-19 virus and everything to do with a politically manipulated attempts throughout the Western world to take away people’s rights to freedom of speech, movement and thought. More and more people are waking up to it. It’s a race as to who can shut the door first and be on the appropriate side.

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      • #
        el gordo

        Oz is on the appropriate side through self discipline, wouldn’t want to be labeled un-Australian.

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    • #
      James Murphy

      I live in Paris. There are protests, but of course, who knows if the reported numbers match reality or not. a lot of people seem to be generally supportive, and the online booking system crashed when it was announced that the cafes/restaurants would be affected. the more severe requirements have since been removed.
      In my opinion, the system is ridiculous, and another opportunity for those who like to control everyone to get their way.

      Most of the restrictions come into force on August 9.
      here’s a summary (translated via google) from the French government:
      https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus/pass-sanitaire

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  • #
    Ronin

    Here’s a good one I heard on radio about midday, why isn’t there a vaccination team at the place where your covid tests are done, two birds, one stone and all that, 50,000 a day in QLD alone, but oh no, that’s beyond the thought process of the nongs in charge here.

    40

    • #
      Raving

      We were doing 250k vaccinations a day in Ontario, half the population of Australia.

      Easy enough to set up mass immunization centers and push needles into arms. Set up vaccination sites in arenas and large spaces which are closed anyways and have ample parking. Set up pop ups in hot zones to vaccinate all ages in that hot zone

      You could do 500k vaccinations per day. Be done from start to finish in 2 months with both jabs

      13

    • #
      Analitik

      They are going to start that here in Victoria.

      It may not be the best thing for someone with CoViD actually developing to get the shot , though, as it could play havoc with the body’s response to the actual infection. I have a suspicion this is what happened to Adriana Midori Takara, the 38-year-old Brazilian national, who died in Sydney.

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      • #
        Konrad

        There is some indications that not only do the Quackzines destroy natural immunity if a person had it, but a number of adverse reactions including deaths could be caused by quakzination of those previously exposed to the Fauci Flu.

        Note: none of the governments demanding mass “vaccination” are testing for natural immunity before administering jabs known to destroy it. Nor are any of the totalitarians demanding Quackzine passports offering natural immunity passports. This is how you know they all lying filth weasels.

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  • #
    another ian

    Introducing a new term

    “Acceptable Catastrophic Error”

    “Is the phrase of the day. When the goal is universal vaccination you can make as many of them as you like. Grab a coffee.”

    Parts 1 and 2 here

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/08/06/acceptable-catastrophic-error/

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    • #
      another ian

      Sounds like they’re reversing this term from around computer simulation of old –

      “Correct within an order of magnitude = wrong”

      40

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  • #
    Daniel Weissel

    Dr Kobi Haviv Director at the Herzog medical centre Jerusalem reports 95% of covid19 patients that are listed as severe are fully vaccinated

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    • #
      PeterS

      As someone pointed out the percentages alone are not relevant since it depends on what proportion of the population who are vaccinated and the actual numbers themselves, among other things. What we need are the absolute figures of deaths over time for both vaccinated and those not vaccinated to see the relative trends. Look at it this way. If 100% of the population is vaccinated then of course all COVID related deaths will be by people who are vaccinated. The mere fact that vaccinated people still die is not unexpected as no vaccine is perfect. We need to be careful how we use such data. For all I know the vaccines are not that effective and so vaccinated people will still die. One thing we do know for sure; vaccinated people still die from the virus. The question, which probably can’t be answered easily is whether the number of deaths would have been higher if they weren’t vaccinated. One would need to allow for the number of deaths due to the vaccine themselves. We don’t have sufficiently detailed data to prove one way or the other as there are also many other factors, such as whether the reported COVID-19 deaths were due it that virus tall and not mistaken for some other virus like the flu, given we already know the PCR test in not to be trusted.

      In Australia though we do know from government data that more people have died from COVID-19 vaccines than from the virus itself That’s not in dispute as the data is there for all to see as I have shown in my other posts.

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      • #
        RickWill

        In Australia though we do know from government data that more people have died from COVID-19 vaccines than from the virus itself That’s not in dispute as the data is there for all to see as I have shown in my other posts.

        Where is the data for this?

        15

        • #
          PeterS

          See my earlier post here plus the one after that.

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          • #
            Tilba Tilba

            See my earlier post here plus the one after that.

            You could equally say more people have been killed shearing sheep than playing rugby football. But so what? The statement is totally meaningless without context.

            Your claim – which you seem to feel the need to make repeatedly many times each day – is absolutely meaningless without percentages.

            What percentage of those receiving a vaccination shot have been made seriously ill or died? And compare that to the number of people who have become seriously ill or died as a percentage of those who have been infected by Covid-19.

            These are basic statistical requirements.

            13

            • #
              PeterS

              Why are you so stuck up with percentages? A death is a death. People die all the time for a variety of reasons. When they do they are recorded and the cause of death is usually recorded along with them. At the moment far more people die due to the vaccines than due to the virus. Are you saying there are people who are dying from the virus and are not recorded as such – just simply ignored? I can understand a few might be mistakenly recorded with the wrong cause of death. That ought to be rare. Deaths are taken seriously in case you didn’t know no matter what the cause.

              10

            • #
              PeterS

              In case you still don’t get it I am not trying to analyse the relative risks of death due to the vaccines versus the virus. I’m just highlighting the fact that the vaccines can be deadly too. Officialdom have too frequently given the impression that vaccines are safe and there is nothing to worry about. That’s telling a lie. People need to understand all the risks. The only way to determine the relative risks is to have two large groups of people, one vaccinated but not exposed to the virus, and the other not vaccinated but fully exposed to the virus. Clearly that’s not going to happen.

              10

  • #
    OldOzzie

    From the Australian – PayWalled

    Politicians have abdicated responsibility for this Covid crisis

    STEVE WATERSON

    Let’s not go through the various conditional predictions of the virus’s impact, especially the “worst-case” scenario, which happily generates a number far short of “everybody dies”, which I would regard as the worst case.

    Instead here’s what the Doherty Institute says could happen if we suffered a six-month uncontrolled outbreak with only 60 per cent of the population vaccinated: there would be 737,971 infections and 5294 deaths. Note the super-scientific accuracy: not 737,970 or 737,972 infections; why, that would just be sloppy guesswork.

    I’m teasing, of course (it’s one of the few pleasures not yet forbidden in these joyless times), and have no doubt the statisticians are doing their very best with the data; so let’s assume they’re correct that almost three-quarters of a million would be infected, of whom 5000 would die.

    Many of us in the anti-lockdown corner are asked how many lives we would sacrifice to see the country open up again, our accusers triumphantly certain there is no decent answer because, as the NSW Premier told us in May, “no death is acceptable”.

    She and her interstate counterparts would rather smash our lives and livelihoods in pursuit of their ridiculous, hubristic ambition.

    If a foreign power were causing damage on this scale we would regard it as an act of war, when deaths in defence of the country would become acceptable again.

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    • #
      PeterS

      I just hope if and when the time comes our armed forces are on OUR side.

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      At 1009 Comments

      The politicians look on, stern-faced and witless, bleating their platitudes about feeling our pain, and urging us to get vaccinated as the only way to escape the shackles on our lives, as though they had nothing to do with the sinister emergency powers they have granted themselves and aimed against us. “A surge in cases has closed restaurants”; “the latest outbreak means tradesmen can’t go to work”; “thanks to some selfish cab driver we must stay at home for the next month”.

      No, ladies and gentlemen, the virus hasn’t done this to us; you have, cosy in your luxurious offices with your index-linked financial cushions, surrounded by sycophants and shoving people around like demented puppetmasters.

      It may come as a shock to those snorting and gobbling at the trough of public money, but not everyone makes their living by opening a spreadsheet on a laptop, reaching out to a stakeholder and unmuting themselves on a Zoom call.

      There are people who pay taxes (rather than recycle them) by travelling every day to places where they make actual things with their hands, who build home offices rather than work from them.

      Some then have the audacity to consider their manual or menial work essential, as though they are under some obligation to put food on the table for their families.

      And these ungrateful wretches, instead of praising the wisdom of their superiors who imprison them in their unfashionable suburbs, have the nerve to march in the streets in complaint, thousands of people engaged in reckless superspreader events that have led to a massive zero new infections.

      “How sharper than a serpent’s tooth it is to have a thankless child!” wails Shakespeare’s King Lear. Echoing him, our politicians and bureaucrats, parents to their infantilised population, are “disgusted” (NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian) with these “filthy” (NSW Deputy Police Commissioner Gary Worboys) “boofheads” (NSW Police Minister David Elliot), “wankers” (NT Chief Minister Michael Gunner) and “hooligans, dropkicks” (WA Premier Mark McGowan). Treasure the eloquent, statesmanlike rhetoric of these latter-day Ciceros; that’s the way to bring the people along with you in difficult times.

      Instead they govern by regulations that grow daily more ridiculous. Sit down to drink, but stand up near a park bench; exercise, but don’t rest; go shopping but don’t browse, even though the sadists at Coles have moved everything you wanted into different aisles; under no circumstances talk to anyone you know, despite the masks that afford magic protection from nanometre Covid dust; the list is a never-ending carousel of hilarity.

      The latest inanity from the future governor of Queensland (remember her, the one who did more than anyone else to dissuade people from receiving the AstraZeneca vaccine?) is to warn against online shopping.

      “Do you need those people out in the community delivering packages and things?” she asks. No, your excellency, of course not, let them park their vans and bikes and get a well-paid, non-executive board position like your pals do.

      What begins as absurdity soon turns dark. In NSW you must carry evidence of your address at all times when outside your home, and produce it to a police officer – “Papers please!” – on demand. You must carry a mask on your person, even to walk the dog around the block. Cold War Berlin-style police checkpoints have appeared on our streets to confirm cars are within 10km of their homes, and their occupants not intending to protest against their rulers. The army is on patrol in areas whose citizens are often refugees from regimes where camouflage battle-dress is rarely a welcome sight.

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      OldOzzie

      “The police at Bondi are currently handing out tickets like ice-creams,” he told The Saturday Daily Telegraph. “They’re also targeting Bankstown.

      “But after numerous reports of crowds on the northern beaches, especially around Manly and Fairy Bower, they’re also about to head there.”

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      OldOzzie

      Even Tim Blair references – ABC Types Sparkle on Your Dime

      ABC aristocrats were given an opportunity last year to display a small measure of solidarity with the ordinary Australians who pay their ridiculous wages.

      At the time, with much of Australian locked down and many Australians out of work, Services Australia, Centrelink, the Department of Health and the Department of Social Services all agreed to defer publicly-funded pay increases.

      They voted to receive them.

      During a coronavirus peak, these billion-dollar babies voted to receive even more of your money.

      And now, during the latest wave of lockdowns, ABC staff who’ve lived large throughout the entire pandemic are wearing sparkly crap to cheer everybody up:

      UPDATE II. The Australian’s Steve Waterson: – Politicians have abdicated responsibility for this Covid crisis

      It may come as a shock to those snorting and gobbling at the trough of public money, but not everyone makes their living by opening a spreadsheet on a laptop, reaching out to a stakeholder and unmuting themselves on a Zoom call.

      There are people who pay taxes (rather than recycle them) by travelling every day to places where they make actual things with their hands, who build home offices rather than work from them.

      Some then have the audacity to consider their manual or menial work essential, as though they are under some obligation to put food on the table for their families.

      And these ungrateful wretches, instead of praising the wisdom of their superiors who imprison them in their unfashionable suburbs, have the nerve to march in the streets in complaint, thousands of people engaged in reckless superspreader events that have led to a massive zero new infections.

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      OldOzzie

      Not Bad for The Australian – Politicians have abdicated responsibility for this Covid crisis

      1217 Comments so far

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    RightOverLabour

    I have read the Acceptable Catastrophic Error by another Ian. Have a look at the links and comments there, especially around mRNA generated folded proteins ( Prions)

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    WokeBuster

    Canadian scientists prove there was no pandemic in Canada:

    “2021-08-06 ::: Analysis of all-cause mortality by week in Canada 2010-2021, by province, age and sex: There was no COVID-19 pandemic, and there is strong evidence of response-caused deaths in the most elderly and in young males”

    https://denisrancourt.ca/entries.php?id=104&name=2021_08_06_analysis_of_all_cause_mortality_by_week_in_canada_2010_2021_by_province_age_and_sex_there_was_no_covid_19_pandemic_and_there_is_strong_evidence_of_response_caused_deaths_in_the_most_elderly_and_in_young_males

    Of course, it’s the opposite in Australia.

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      Raving

      The data clearly shows the pandemic. I know what those individual provincial peaks abd troughs for 2020-21 mean.

      It’s also interesting to see the pandemic’s influence amount to little more than a pile of beans. Not easy to statistically pull the signal from the background

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    Any one find this interesting?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9869089/US-records-nearly-100-000-COVID-19-cases-day-time-February.html

    US records nearly 100,000 COVID-19 cases a day for first time since February with 277% surge over the last three weeks: CDC warns Indian ‘Delta’ variant accounts for 93% of ALL infections and vaccines ‘can’t prevent transmission’

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    David Maddison

    Imperfect vaccines will likely lead to the evolution of a super-virus.

    Do you think the existing antivirals like IVM and HCQ will be able to treat it?

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      Destroyer D69

      There seems to be overwhelming evidence of trials showing an at least equal or superior result than the vaccines.Ivermectin . hydroxychloroquine,, ZIVERDO Treatment to mention the most visible. The majority of these have a long and well documented history of use and outcomes going back over 30 years. I will wait untill one of them is available, rather than take a lucky dip ticket with a treatment that has not had the benefits of a long history of use with less deaths reported in this time than have so far been admitted to in the extremely short life so far of these “Vaccines” If I have an “adverse reaction to one of these treatments I can simply stop taking it,With the vaccine IT IS FOR LIFE. There are NO BACKSIES.You are stuck with the results.

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      Tilba Tilba

      Imperfect vaccines will likely lead to the evolution of a super-virus.

      No – not at all. It is the unvaccinated being a great big Petri Dish that will lead to new Covid-19 variants. Don’t try and blame the vaccinated – it is the deniers/refusers who need to be castigated for spreading mutations.

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        Tiba, read this and refute it if you can. Otherwise stop killing people by perpetuating the virus and perpetual lockdowns.
        https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243127

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        Kalm Keith

        The pharma group which instigated the idea that the non vaccinated should be castigated, shouldn’t have been procreated initially, or at least been relegated to a place where they could cause no further harm.

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        clarence.t

        Ah.. the ignorance of the leftist twit, shines through, yet again.

        Showing its total lack of understanding of the science behind mutation and variation.

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        Konrad

        You are scientifically incorrect.

        It is mass use of non-sterilizing Quackzines that are accelerating viral evolution.

        The warnings about using non-sterilizing “vaccines” in a pandemic are 70 years old.

        There are no valid excuses for what the “vaccines only option” governments have gone and done. NONE!

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        Serp

        What’s blame got to do with it?

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    OldOzzie

    How to Create a Free World: Enforce the Common Sense Rulings of the Portugal Courts

    Note that everyone that supports the tyrannical lockdown policies of Premiers Dan Andrews and Gladys Berejiklian in the Victoria and New South Wales states of Australia have fallen victim to the oligarchical strategy of fear mongering based not upon new deaths from the virus, but of exploding infection numbers. Before you fall victim to these exploding infection numbers being jammed down our throats by the oligarchs, you should know this. Scientists have conducted several studies and written several reputable papers, using robust control groups, and have concluded that PCR tests using over 35 Ct (cycle thresholds) yield only 3% accuracy in test results for infection. Knowing this, why in the world would any government continue to use a test in a manner that yields potentially 97% false results to report exploding infection rates? I will leave that logical conclusion up to you.

    In Portugal , Judges Margarida Ramos de Almeida and Ana Paramés ruled, in November of 2020, that from that point forward, it would be illegal and unconstitutional to quarantine any person in Portugal, citizen, resident and tourist, if the basis for their “infected” status is a PCR test used at a greater than a 25 cycle threshold because even test results of a PCR test at 26, 27, 28 Cts were, in their words, 100% “unreliable”. Yet, the United States continues to diagnose citizens as “infected” routinely using Cts above 30. Is science to be completely dismissed for the sake of political gain and power?

    Furthermore, the ruling of the Portuguese judges was based not on just one, but on several extremely robust and credible scientific studies published in medical journals that all yielded the above conclusions. If you want to read the study yourself and their judgements, before formulating an opinion, as is the intelligent process by which to reach a conclusion, you can do so here and here. And to ensure absolutely nothing is lost in translation, for native Portuguese speakers, here is the Portuguese transcript of their ruling and reasons why they banned PCR tests with Cts above 25 as a credible source for an infection diagnosis to legally enforce a quarantine mandate against any person that sets foot on soil in the nation of Portugal.

    Judge Ramos de Almeida and Judge Paramés vociferously stated, in their ruling:

    “Based on the currently available scientific evidence this test [the RT-PCR test] is in and of itself unable to determine beyond reasonable doubt that positivity in fact corresponds to infection by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, for several reasons, among which two are paramount (to which one would need to add the issue of the gold standard, which, due to that issue’s specificity, will not be considered here): the test’s reliability depends on the number of cycles used; the test’s reliability depends on the viral load present.”

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      OldOzzie

      From the Comments

      Is the Covid Vaccine safe?

      1. Are there possible adverse event outcomes? 543,000 in VAERS database (7/15/21) – https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html
      2. Do the pharmaceutical companies have total indemnification from liability? Yes, congressional “PREP ACT”
      3. Is this a vaccine? No, mRNA messenger is a lab synthetic
      4. What additional chemicals are in the injection? Moderna SM-102 proprietary
      5. Is the vaccine FDA approved? No, emergency approval only
      6. Were drug interaction studies done? No
      7. Were single dose toxicity studies done? No
      8. Were toxicokinetic studies done? No
      9. Were genotoxicity studies done? No
      10. Were carcinogenicity studies done? No
      11. Were pre/postnatal studies done? No
      12. Is the mRNA injection effective? Mild reduction in symptoms
      13. How long does it protect against Covid? Don’t know
      14. Does it help people who contracted and survived Covid? Don’t know
      15. Does it prevent transmission of Covid? Don’t know
      16. Are there medical treatments for Covid? Yes, ivermectin, hydroxichloriquin, vitamins D, C and zinc
      17. What are Covid survival chances? 0-14 99.9998%, 15-44 99.9931%, 45-64 99.9294%, 65-85 99.6297%
      18. Is the PCR test accurate? Cycle threshold must be less than 35, FDA approved up to 40. Fauci – over 35 is dead nucleotides, not able to cause infection

      Can you get natural immunity if you contract but survive Covid?

      If yes, do you still need a vaccination?
      If yes, why?
      What population percentage of vaccinated/immune constitutes herd immunity? Why?
      How does testing differentiate between Covid variants?

      ”If I get vaccinated can I stop wearing a mask(s)?”
      Government: “NO”

      ”If I get vaccinated will the restaurants, bars, schools, fitness clubs, hair salons, etc. reopen and will people be able to get back to work like normal?
      Government: “NO”

      ”If I get vaccinated will I be resistant to Covid?”
      Government: “Maybe. We don’t know exactly, but probably not.”

      ”If I get vaccinated, at least I won’t be contagious to others – right?”
      Government: “NO. the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission.”

      ”If I get vaccinated, how long will the vaccine last?”
      Government: “No one knows. All Covid “vaccines” are still in the experimental stage.”

      “If I get vaccinated, can I stop social distancing?”
      Government: “NO”

      “If my parents, grandparents and myself all get vaccinated can we hug each other again?”
      Government: “NO”

      “So what’s the benefit of getting vaccinated?”
      Government: “Hoping that the virus won’t kill you.”

      ”Are you sure the vaccine won’t injure or kill me?”
      Government: “NO”

      ”If statistically the virus won’t kill me (99.7% survival rate), why should I get vaccinated?”
      Government: “To protect others.”

      ”So if I get vaccinated, I can protect 100% of people I come in contact with?”
      Government: “NO”

      “If I experience a severe adverse reaction, long-term effects (still unknown) or die from the vaccine will I (or my family) be compensated from the vaccine manufacture or the Government?”
      Government: “NO – the government and vaccine manufacturer’s have 100% zero liability regarding this experimental drug”

      So to summarize, the Covid19 “vaccine”…

      Does not provide immunity
      Does not eliminate the virus
      Does not prevent death
      Does not guarantee you won’t get it
      Does not stop you from passing it on to others
      Does not eliminate the need for travel bans
      Does not eliminate the need for business closures
      Does not eliminate the need for lockdowns!!!

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        neil

        3. Is this a vaccine? No, mRNA messenger is a lab synthetic.

        mRNA is a vastly superior form of vaccine, vaccines like most biological/chemical compounds have potentially harmful side effects, like blood clots. mRNA technology starts with a conventional vaccine like Astrazenca, then you identify the part of the vaccine that actually kills the virus, isolate it, attach it to an inert amino acid platform and synthetically mass produce it.

        Why this is so superior is because all the junk amino compounds in the biological vaccine that may cause side effects have been discarded and the synthetic vaccine does nothing but kill the virus.

        In the future all vaccines will be mRNA and they will be much safer.

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      Tilba Tilba

      Note that everyone that supports the tyrannical lockdown policies of Premiers Dan Andrews and Gladys Berejiklian in the Victoria and New South Wales states of Australia have fallen victim to the oligarchical strategy of fear mongering based not upon new deaths from the virus, but of exploding infection numbers.

      What absolute drivelling nonsense … you demonstrate that you know absolutely nothing about public health issues, and are just trying to stoke doomer-porn fires. Shameful.

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      RickWill

      false results to report exploding infection rates?

      Victorian cases exploded from 4 yesterday to 21 today. NSW went ballistic with a mind numbing 319 today compared with under 300 yesterday. It is quite clear that the PCR testing is being used to report exploding number of infections.

      However, truth be told, the testing labs in Australia are using genomic sequencing to trace the chain of infection.

      Anything about PCR tests and their over-sensitivity is simply a beat-up based on limited knowledge.

      The genomic testing has proven a powerful tool in identifying the actual source of infection or not. It is how the contact tracers work out who visited who when they should not have.

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        Analitik

        4 to 21 CASES. Under 300 to 319 CASES
        And a case is simply someone testing positive with a cycle count under 45!

        GAME OVER, MAN. GAME OVER!!!

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          Analitik

          What, mods? WHAT?

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          “Anything about PCR tests and their over-sensitivity is simply a beat-up based on limited knowledge.”

          High cycle tests are junk. Anyone saying different contradicts thousands of PHD scientists in the field, and the developer of the process.

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            RickWill

            PCR testing is an initial screening test in Australia. They are using genomic sequencing to track down the chain of infection in any positive cases. When there is just a handful of positive cases it is easy to do full genomic sequencing and dramatically improve the contract tracing effort. They know if people are not telling the whole truth or outright misinforming because they follow the chain of infection.

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        RossP

        “Anything about PCR tests and their over-sensitivity is simply a beat-up based on limited knowledge.”

        I suppose you are not up with the fact the CDC has notified testing labs that as from DEC 31 they will be not recommending the PCR test and the labs should look to alternative testing methods listed on their site.
        They have come out saying the PCR test is not good enough to differentiate between the flu and Covid.
        They also told labs that when testing those that were vaccinated that they should run at less than 30 cycles.

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    Destroyer D69

    Food for Thought….From ZeroHedge.
    Larry Sanger: The Astonishing Hubris Of A Global Experimental Vaccine

    by Tyler Durden
    Friday, Aug 06, 2021 – 11:00 PM

    Authored by Wikipedia Co-Founder Larry Sanger via larrysanger.org (emphasis ours),

    It is an objective, indisputable fact: never in the history of the world has there been a global push to administer an experimental medicine to all of humanity, billions of us, at the same time.

    I want you to stop and reflect on that. Imagine the hubris it required both to carry out this plan and to propagandize the world to carry it out.

    “Hubris?” you ask. “What do you mean?”

    The Covid vaccines are experimental. The FDA has not approved them. Most vaccines require years to test and approve, in no small part because we want to make sure they don’t have dangerous long-term side effects, which they can have; the CDC has published a list of problems with selected approved vaccines. Many experimental vaccines never make it out of the experimental phase. CNN made similar points back when Trump was, wrongheadedly (I thought so at the time) pushing for rapid approval of the Covid vaccines. Of course, the mercurial news organization hastened to forget all that when the Biden administration decided rapid vaccine deployment was a good idea. They shouldn’t have: for all the good they certainly have done, physicians warn us that vaccines can be dangerous for some, and experimental vaccines are, naturally, even more so.

    Again, my point is simple and absolutely factual. Again:

    experimental vaccine

    billions of people (over two billion)

    at the same time

    You have to be willing to trust the welfare of billions of people not just to the honesty of our leaders and scientists—because things can go wrong for decent people. You must also trust their competence—and not just that, because competent people can make surprising, unforeseeable mistakes. You must also trust that we avoided the worst, that we dodged a bullet, and that they actually succeeded in making a more or less safe vaccine.

    Of course, maybe they did. I sure hope so. But what if we discover some horrifically high incidence of catastrophic side-effects that do not show up for two or five or ten years? Scientists tell us that that is possible. It is unfortunately possible that more people will die from these experimental vaccines than would have died from a virus that kills fewer than 1% of those who contract it.

    Do not misunderstand me. I am not claiming that is happening. I am not even saying that it is terribly likely. I am saying it is possible, because these are experimental vaccines.

    Frankly, the hubris required for carrying out this plan, and for taking the lead in propagandizing the world to carry it out, is jaw-dropping and scary to me. If a world leader is willing to take such gambles with all of humanity, what else are they prepared to do? I really wonder. If suddenly you became a president or top medical system leader or media organization owner, would you want to take an action that, if you were wrong, might spell the death of millions? First, do no harm. We haven’t heard that old medical byword very much recently.

    My family received our childhood vaccinations, by the way, with no issues. I am not an anti-vaxxer. I am an anti-global-all-at-once-experimental-vaxxer. There is a big difference.

    This is not even to touch the question whether these experimental vaccines should be mandated, i.e., if you should lose your basic civil rights if you fail to be vaccinated. Maybe I will write about that question, definitely a non-medical question, separately another time. There is indeed much, much more to say.

    But my present point is simple: experimental vaccine—billions of people—at the same time. It utterly boggles the mind that so many otherwise reasonable people have been influenced to think this is a good idea.
    26,618199
    NEVER MISS THE NEWS THAT MATTERS MOST
    ZEROHEDGE DIRECTLY TO YOUR INBOX

    .

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      Analitik

      At least remove the site promotion from your cut paste

      Is it actually legal to copy an entire article from another site?

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        Destroyer D69

        Was not meant to be “site promotion” simply recognition of the source which I feel is a normal courtesy and to allow others to go to the source and form their own conclusions, Informed debate, if you prefer.

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          Analitik

          A link with selected quotes is a far better way to convey the information along with attribution

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      RickWill

      The real failure is any admission of guilt from China to save face. They released a bioweapon that was under development – possibly accidentally but maybe as a trial run. They clearly knew its dangers by the way they responded. They placed chains on the gates of apartment buildings and just let people fend for themselves inside in Wuhan. Lone citizens were supplying food parcels to keep the chained up people alive.

      Taiwan was the only location that provided adequate warning and took appropriate action – they had prior experience with their countrymen.

      If the world was alerted to the release of a bioweapons then I expect the world would have acted differently. All borders would slam shut. All aeroplanes out of China immediately grounded.

      A lot of health workers have put their own lives at risk to save the lives of others exposed to this weapon. Thousands of researchers have worked tirelessly to come up with vaccines that improve the prospect of survival against this dangerous weapon.

      Thousands of medical practitioners have put their credibility and livelihood on the line to test drugs off-label to defeat the progress of the infection and save lives.

      The vast majority of people recognise that the world is dealing with a bioweapon – they are going to give themselves the best chance of surviving; that means getting a jab that has proven efficacy and limited side effects in most people.

      Wikipedia has long practiced its own form of censorship and propaganda. That is a clear indication that Larry Sanger has a closed mind. He may not recognise that the world is dealing with a bioweapon .

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        Analitik

        Actually, Larry Sangar ceased being involved in the running of Wikipedia back in 2003.
        Accusing him of censorship and propaganda is gaslighting

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    neil

    Vaccines, lockdowns, elimination, all futile. There is nothing we can do about this pandemic other than let it run it’s course.

    We know this because we have a Covid19 analogue the H1N1 influenza corona virus. The first Flu pandemic was Russia 1888/90, then the global pandemic of 1919/24 since then it has resurfaced in 1957/58, 68/69, 77/79 and again in 2009/10 when 500,000 died. We think of these as different viruses because we give the outbreaks different names, Sanish, Asian, Hong Kong, Russian and swine Flu’s. But they are all strains of H1N1 influenza and Covid19 itself is a manipulated strain of SARS2 from 2002.

    Even thou we developed viable Flu vaccines in the 1940’s we have not been able to eliminate it, Covid19 and the new names we give it will be with us for decades to come, this initial pandemic will probably run for four or five years. We can’t keep locking down every month or two for years. We have to accept there will be more casualtiesm maybe thousands. We have to learn to live with it and get on with our lives.

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      David Maddison

      I think the attempts to control the virus rather than letting it run its course (while protecting the vulnerable) will ensure it will be with us for much longer than it otherwise would be. Furthermore, the extensive use of ineffective or poorly effective “vaccines” will ensure the emergence of an uncontrollable super-virus.

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        Tilba Tilba

        I think the attempts to control the virus rather than letting it run its course (while protecting the vulnerable) will ensure it will be with us for much longer than it otherwise would be.

        Memories are so short – go back and look at what the first few months were like – in NYC, Northern Italy, Iran, and more … they were “run its course” because we didn’t know any different. Death rates were appalling, and health services were wildly overwhelmed.

        We have done a great deal in the last 12 months to ameliorate the effects of the virus on society, and for that I think we can be grateful. Sometimes I think that rather too many believe that health departments and chief medical officers are enemies of the people … I think that’s just paranoia and doomer-porn. Not useful for a decent analysis of reality.

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          Tilba, nobody said run its course by doing nothing, except the experts hired by government.
          “ only the government can create a sand shortage in a desert “”

          Only the government can create a global human disaster by its poor reactions and lack of common sense reactions to relatively mild virus.

          Only the government can kill millions and get away with it.

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      Lance

      Covid has animal reservoirs, ie. animals get covid as well as humans do.
      For this reason, covid will Never be eradicated. It will simply pop up again.

      Clear explanation of how utterly futile the vax are, why covid can’t be eradicated, etc.

      6 minute video embed in article. Backup reference links in article after video.

      https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/09/must-see-family-medical-physician-dr-dan-stock-delivers-an-important-message-to-mount-vernon-school-board-about-coronavirus/

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    David Maddison

    Excellent commentary from Paul Joseph Watson about the hypocrisy of the Elites with respect to covid measures.

    “Us and Them”.

    https://youtu.be/fveA7E1wms4

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    Tilba Tilba

    Even thou we developed viable Flu vaccines in the 1940’s we have not been able to eliminate it, Covid19 and the new names we give it will be with us for decades to come, this initial pandemic will probably run for four or five years. We can’t keep locking down every month or two for years. We have to accept there will be more casualties maybe thousands. We have to learn to live with it and get on with our lives.

    Even though I’m a good old-fashioned centre-leftie, with generally a positive view of governments and their decisions (and no Gates-Schwab paranoia) – I have a lot of sympathy with this view.

    It seems to me that the hospitalisation and death rates do remain really low … so don’t do lockdowns, don’t close schools, shops, and businesses. Just promote a very solid vaccination program, encourage masks and social distancing, and keep up the contact-tracing efforts. Without lockdowns we could keep all of that going essentially forever, and we could literally “learn to live” with Covid-19.

    Personally I think the various Australian state governments are fighting an old war (like at least 12 months ago) – let’s move on to the newer strategy.

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      clarence.t

      ” I’m a good old-fashioned centre-leftie”

      No.. it is very obvious from your idiotologically driven comments, that you are of the far looney-left !

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        el gordo

        I beg to differ, Tilba is rational and correct in everything he has said. The looney right are paranoid to a great degree.

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          PeterS

          Your true colours on display yet again. I much prefer the looney right than the looney left although of course the far right are just as bad as the far left.

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            el gordo

            This pandemic is indiscriminate, like the plagues of old, it takes the vulnerable of all persuasion without fear or favour.

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          clarence.t

          el gordo exposes himself…. and an ugly truth it is. !

          Sorry little leftie, but Tilba is a total leftist, even more that you are.

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    Ross

    The further we get along with this “pandemic” the less truly scientific comparisons that can be made. All the data this from article is really good , but like comparing Case Fatality Rates , population infection levels or mask effectiveness unless there are true “UNTREATED/CONTROL” groups that have minimal variability from a TREATED group no real valid conclusions can be made. Also for a lot of calculations we simply dont know the true denominator figures. You can employ fancy stats as much as you like, its not a valid comparison. We also cant compare different country performances because of totally different seasons, demographics, lockdown restrictions etc etc. It’s interesting and can fill lots of blogs but I’m not sure its anyway convincing. The absolute risk reduction (ARR) rating for vaccines, which is the difference between infection rates with and without a vaccine, considers the whole population. For all the vaccines the ARR is around 1% (0.84-> 1.3) which means there is almost the same risk of being infected with or without the vaccine. Hence, it’s no surprise that viral loads are pretty well equivalent as per this article. Perhaps hospitalisations and deaths are down with vaxxed people but at the moment all that data is from the Northern Hemisphere – where its summer. So people may be actually boosting their Vitamin D, dumping the outside masks, and more importantly being faced with less viral loads to be infected with.

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    Tilba Tilba

    The further we get along with this “pandemic” the less truly scientific comparisons that can be made.

    Interesting observation – in general in the modern world of science and rationality, the more data you are able to collect, the better you can provide an analysis.

    [snip – LVA ]

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    another ian

    “Morano and Bastardi Host Zoom Event”

    Details here

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/08/06/morano-and-bastardi-host-zoom-event/

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    Brenda Spence

    Just read an interesting take on why vaccinations are being pushed to the extent they are. They want a 100% vax rate…the writer suggests because those of us who are unvaxxed are acting as a control group. If things go wrong in the vaxxed group but not in the control group, then the world will know their vaccines are poison.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/brandon-smith-why-are-globalists-and-governments-so-desperate-100-vaccination-rates

    He also has a theory about zero population and sterilization of which I am still slightly suspicious.

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      Serp

      He gradually lost me around the clip of the Arkansas governor at which his wagon left the rails altogether; fun to read though, thanks.

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    Vicki

    I have found that many pro vax people are quite irrational. For example, telling them that I am not necessarily anti-vax for covid & am waiting for the OK for Novavax because it is a conventional vax makes no difference to their hostility.

    I wonder if many are having buyers remorse & wish they had researched the issue further.

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      Tilba Tilba

      I have found that many pro vax people are quite irrational.

      That’s an amazing coincidence … many of us have also found the anti-vaxxers totally irrational!

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        clarence.t

        So, its totally rational to inject experimental drugs into your system without the vaguest clue as to what the long term effects might be.

        Ok.. so we have your definition of “rational”.

        Now can we hear from someone that doesn’t belong in Arkham !

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          Tilba Tilba

          Ok.. so we have your definition of “rational”.

          Okay … my definition of “rational” is to ask what percentage of those presenting as seriously ill, or in fact dying, in hospitals all over the world, are unvaccinated?

          Data from CDC, Kaiser Family Health, and Johns Hopkins, suggests that more than 98% of those seriously ill or dying are unvaccinated … so it would seem that the vaccines are very good at reducing serious cases. Which is a very good thing – unless you have some weird anti-vax / anti-Darwin mind-trip going on.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Psychologists call it the “bandwagon effect”.

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/stronger-the-broken-places/201708/the-bandwagon-effect

      The bandwagon effect is a psychological phenomenon whereby people do something primarily because other people are doing it, regardless of their own beliefs, which they may ignore or override.

      The origin of the phrase comes from the use of a bandwagon, which is a float in a parade that encourages people to jump aboard and enjoy the music that is being played. The contagious effect of music and celebration ensures that large numbers of people will be jumping on. This principle was used from the 19th century in political campaigns to link candidates with the notion of having fun and to point out those who are not on the bandwagon as missing out.

      Over time, it has come to be understood as a form of manipulation to influence people to join with a trend in politics or consumer behavior. The implication is that since so many other people are doing it, it must be good, or at least acceptable. This phenomenon does not allow for each individual to examine their particular values and beliefs to see if the prevailing trend is something with which they choose to take part.

      The bandwagon effect has wider implications outside of politics and buying behaviors. In social psychology, this tendency of people to align their beliefs and behaviors with those of a group is also called “herd mentality” or “groupthink.”

      For those of us who want to be free of manipulation of those around us so that we are free to make choices that will enhance our well being, becoming aware of the subtle influences that may be stealing our happiness is worthy of our time and attention.

      SEE LINK FOR REST

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        Konrad

        The “bandwagon effect” is what the government hopes for with the games they play with their “vaccination” numbers.

        However their shrieking panic as expressed by their lickspittle stenographers in the Establishment Misleadia tells us the mass use of non-sterilizing “vaccines” is not going to plan.

        The wheels are falling of the Quackzine waggon faster than they can jab. People can see the Quackzines failing all over the world now.

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      Analitik

      waiting for the OK for Novavax because it is a conventional vax

      Sorry to disappoint you but the Novavax is far from being a conventional vaccine. It is actually composed of artificially cultures spike proteins and not an inactivated nor weakened virus.

      Gene therapy is used indirectly to infect insect cells to produce the spike proteins.

      The only conventional vaccine for COVID-19 is SinoVax which appears even more leaky than the western gene therapies

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  • #
    another ian

    “”The Kung Flu insanity down under””

    “Lockdowns are not science anymore but a tool of absolute control. If you have done the same thing 5 times already and [it] did not work, what in Hera’s name makes you think this time will work? The answer is: They know it won’t work for whatever they sold you it was needed but it is working charmingly for their purposes.”

    More at link

    https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2021/08/the-kung-flu-insanity-down-under.html

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  • #
    Vicki

    Incidentally, today’s news that the FDA has refused to give OK to Novavax because of dissatisfaction with their manufacturing procedures (New York Times) does not augur well.

    I think I will be waiting, in that case, for the anti virals (Pfizer, Merck & Roche) will be available in Oz probably in the new year.

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      Vicki,

      same as you, if I am going to get a Vaccine, it will probably be Novavax

      From this Weekend Australian – Novavax booster doses to soon join stockpile

      11:16PM August 6, 2021

      Novavax will apply for approval for its Covid-19 vaccine in Australia “within weeks” of making a similar application to regulators in Britain next month.

      Although the company confirmed it will begin shipping doses to select countries by the end of this month, the vaccine is not expected to begin arriving in Australia until after October, later than expected due to manufacturing delays.

      The company has again ­delayed its application to the Food and Drug Administration for approval of its vaccine, with doses not expected to be supplied to the US until the end of the year.

      But it has progressed with its first applications to regulators in India, Indonesia and The Philippines, and will begin shipping the first 100 million doses of its protein-based vaccine to those countries at the end of this month.

      Novavax expects to increase production to 150 million doses a month by the end of the year, and some of those doses will be shipped to Australia.

      Plans for the first shipments of the Novavax vaccine come after months of manufacturing delays when the company was unable to source special plastic bags used in the manufacturing process.

      Australia has ordered 51 million doses of the Novavax vaccine, which may be used as a primary vaccine and/or booster.

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Vicki,
      Why wait? You can go on the latest version of the Zelenko protocol now, without prescription even in Australia, since he’s replaced hydroxychloroquine with quercetin once he found that quercetin is a zinc ionophore, and is available as an over the counter supplement.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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    Bruce

    “What’s the point of a vax “passport”?

    NOT having one will be like wearing a yellow star in 1930’s Germany.

    Probably with similar results.

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    Brenda Spence

    To add to the story…

    Moderna an Pfizer intentionally lost the control group in thheir trials…both of them??

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/06/this-is-nuts-moderna-and-pfizer-intentionally-lost-the-clinical-trial-control-group-testing-vaccine-efficacy-and-safety

    The plot thickens…

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    • #
      Brenda Spence

      That was meant for #44

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      Kalm Keith

      Shades of the old SSRIs that were tested for efficacy in helping control “depression”.

      Several sets of tests were done and the least useful were disappeared.

      Later they, the pills, were given to young people and when they failed to work there were suicides.

      So much for the integrity of big pharma.

      From my own assessment of this there was simply an association between Serotonin levels and depression and not a causal link.

      Trust is a hard won commodity but don’t look to trust big pharma.

      Jump forward to 2021 and we have testing and vaccines for CV19.

      Don’t we.

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    Analitik

    Peter Navarro and Dr Robert Malone describe the erroneous assumptions and dangers of the mass vaccination programs being pushed to combat CoViD-19.

    They describe “Four flawed assumptions”

    The first is that universal vaccination can eradicate the virus and secure economic recovery by achieving herd immunity throughout the country (and the world).However, the virus is now so deeply embedded in the world population that, unlike polio and smallpox, eradication is unachievable.

    The second assumption is that the vaccines are (near) perfectly effective. However, our currently available vaccines are quite “leaky.” While good at preventing severe disease and death, they only reduce, not eliminate, the risk of infection, replication, and transmission.

    The third assumption is that the vaccines are safe. Yet scientists, physicians, and public health officials now recognize risks that are rare but by no means trivial.

    The failure of the fourth “durability” assumption is the most alarming and perplexing. It now appears our current vaccines are likely to offer a mere 180-day window of protection

    And they go on to suggest

    A far more optimal strategy is to vaccinate only the most vulnerable. This will limit the amount of vaccine-resistant mutations and thereby slow, if not halt, the current vaccine arms race.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/aug/5/biden-teams-misguided-and-deadly-covid-19-vaccine-/

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      If only Australian Politicians and Medical GPs could read

      Thanks for that Washington Times Article Analitik

      The Biden administration’s strategy to universally vaccinate in the middle of the pandemic is bad science and badly needs a reboot.

      This strategy will likely prolong the most dangerous phase of the worst pandemic since 1918 and almost assuredly cause more harm than good – even as it undermines faith in the entire public health system.

      For example, there has been much controversy over ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. Yet, with the emergence of a growing body of scientific evidence, we can be assured these two medicines are safe and effective in prophylaxis and early treatment when administered under a physician’s supervision. Numerous other useful treatments range from famotidine/celecoxib, fluvoxamine, and apixaban to various anti-inflammatory steroids, Vitamin D, and zinc.

      The broader goal when administering these agents is to moderate symptoms and take death off the table, particularly for the unvaccinated. Unlike vaccines, these agents are generally not dependent on specific viral properties or mutations but instead mitigate or treat the inflammatory symptoms of the disease itself. (Pfizer is now actively marketing its own antiviral therapeutic – tacit admission Pfizer’s own vaccine is incapable of eradicating the virus.)

      We are not “anti-vax.” One of us (Dr. Malone) invented the core mRNA technology being used by Pfizer and Moderna to produce their vaccines and has spent his entire professional career developing and advancing novel vaccine technologies, vaccines, and other medical countermeasures. The other (Mr. Navarro) played a key role at the Trump White House in jumpstarting Operation Warp Speed and ensuring timely delivery of the vaccines.

      We are simply saying that just because you have a big vaccine hammer, it is not necessarily wise to use it for every nail. The American people deserve better than a universal vaccination strategy under the flag of bad science and enforced through authoritarian measures.

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    • #
      Lance

      Additional article by MD explaining the same thing.

      6 min embed video. Reference links below video in article body.

      https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/09/must-see-family-medical-physician-dr-dan-stock-delivers-an-important-message-to-mount-vernon-school-board-about-coronavirus/

      Animals can get covid. Unless every animal is vaccinated as well, there will always be a reservoir of covid.

      Nobody should be vaccinated until after a serum antibody test because if someone has acquired natural immunity, the vaccine can cause severe side effects.

      Even with a vax or acquired natural immunity, people can asymptomatically spread covid, so a vax passport is meaningless.

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    greggg

    ‘In short, Dr. Schirmacher performed autopsies on 40 people who had died within two weeks of receiving a Covid jab. Of those, 30%-40% could be directly attributed to the “vaccines.” He is calling for more autopsies of those who die shortly after getting injected to see if his numbers pan out. But Germany has thus far been reluctant to act. Meanwhile, the report of this highly respected pathologist and pro-vaccine doctor is being suppressed.’

    https://www.sott.net/article/456538-Media-blackout-Renowned-German-pathologists-vaccine-autopsy-data-is-shocking-and-being-censored

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      PeterS

      Not surprising given my findings from the Australian government Database of Adverse Event Notifications – medicines.

      Search results between 01/01/2021 – 07/05/2021 for:
      COMIRNATY COVID-19 vaccine BNT162b2 (mRNA)
      COVID-19 Vaccine (TNS) COVID-19 Vaccine (Type not specified)
      COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca ChAdOx1-S (Viral vector)

      Number of cases where death was a reported outcome: 158

      During the same period as above there were only 2 reported deaths due to the COVID-19 virus itself.

      It’s worth noting that the vaccines may not necessarily be the primary cause of the death, nor even related at all, just as is the case of COVID-19 reported deaths. Consequently, it’s fair to compare the COVID-19 related deaths with the COVID-19 vaccine related deaths. Also, note that according to the CDC, the PCR test to detect the COVID-19 fragments does not guarantee the victim actually had the COVID-19 virus, calling into question that the 2 reported deaths above even had COVID-19. However, we will assume they did. On the other hand, there is no question that the 158 reported deaths allegedly caused by COVID-19 vaccines had the vaccines, otherwise they would not be reported as such in the database. Therefore, based on the available information, it is reasonable to conclude that more people have died from the COVID-19 vaccines than from the virus itself by about a ratio of 80 to 1. The following detailed information obtained from the database demonstrates the wide variety of symptoms associated with the vaccine related deaths.
      22 people who had an adverse event after being vaccinated died.
      18 people who had dyspnoea after being vaccinated died.
      17 people who had gastrointestinal disorders after being vaccinated died.
      14 people who had pulmonary embolism after being vaccinated died
      14 people who had a cardiac arrest after being vaccinated died
      3 people who suffered an injection site reaction after being vaccinated died.
      and so on.

      As more up-to-date data comes forth from the database, a further comparison will be conducted to the more recent COVID-19 related deaths.

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    CHRIS

    The current vaccines were created in double-quick time. Short cuts were obviously taken. Their effectiveness against current COVID 19 strains is excellent…however, what about future strains?

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  • #
    Lucky

    “Emergency Powers”
    Are these allowed for in the constitution? (Australia, US, .. )
    Are these prohibited by the constitution? Or implied as possible?

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    CDC director changes her story, now admits Covid vaccines don’t prevent virus transmission

    “Our vaccines are working exceptionally well,” Walensky claimed

    They continue to to work well for Delta with regard to severe illness and death, they prevent it.

    But what they cant do anymore is prevent transmission.”

    Let’s go to the video …

    https://beckernews.com/cdc-director-changes-her-story-now-admits-covid-vaccines-dont-prevent-virus-transmission-40754/

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    • #
      Serp

      After reading the commenter who’d received eighty million for joining the illuminati kingdom I came back to this page without watching the video; still laughing, thanks.

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    Vicki

    Robert Malone is reporting the “Great Pivot” is beginning, at last.

    The failure of vaccines to live up to expectations & the concern about “leaky vaccines” have finally led to the development of anti virals by the major drug companies.

    Fauci explained the change in policy in the last few days in an interview with the CDC which is essential viewing.

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      Analitik

      Actually, it’s the drug companies that knew this was coming as their tests would have shown the limited and waning efficacy of their gene therapy spike protein vaccines. They would have been preparing anti-virals from the beginning to have new, patented products for the narrative change.

      Fauci is merely preparing the media terrain for the more miracle curatives. Eg Pfizer are in the advanced testing of what appears to be rebadged ivermectin.

      It just occurred to me that these gene therapy spike protein vaccines are better described as anti-virals since they don’t prevent infection by the SARS-CoV-2 virus. But then it’s not as reassuring to tell people that it only helps fight the disease and doesn’t stop the spread

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        Konrad

        Actually the careful use of anti-viral drug triple therapy could virtually wipe out the Fauci Flu, and do so without acceleration of mutation that the Quackzines are causing.

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          Analitik

          Yes but big pharma want us to use their new, patented, experimental triple therapy – none of that cheap, off label, proven, out of patent stuff.

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          • #
            Konrad

            But why use “Pfizermectin” without testing when good old Ivermectin has a 4 decade long history of safe use …

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            • #
              Analitik

              Because big pharma will fund the mass RCTs to produce the peer reviewed studies that prove they work. Then they will get WHO and government approvals as recommended courses of treatment

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    Vicki

    But you don’t see any reports re this momentous moment in Aussie media, of course.

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  • #
    Vicki

    Sorry, the interview with Fauci was with the CSIS.

    10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Which is better?

    Natural immunity (of unknown effectiveness) as is presumed to exist in recovered covid victims.

    OR imperfect immunity as provided by a vaccine?

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    • #
      PeterS

      I understand they are rhetorical questions as I believe you and I are on the same page on all this. Also, I’ve shown in my previous posts using our own Australian government Database of Adverse Event Notifications – medicines, that the vaccines can increase the risks associated with various illnesses and even death.

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      PeterS

      A related and perhaps impossible question to answer given the lack of trust our officialdom in revealing any truth let alone the whole truth, is how much of the reduction in deaths around the world is attributed to the natural immunity of the population as the virus spreads and the case counts mounted up and subsequent declined. During past pandemics a similar pattern has always emerged.

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      I’ll try a different response:
      Vitamin D serum levels of 60 ng/ml or above seem to be offering good immunity. Maybe the best?
      Cheers
      Dave B

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      Konrad

      Israeli studies show natural immunity is over 6 times better than anything created by the Quackzines and is far longer lasting.

      However it can be successfully destroyed by injection of the Quackzines.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Correct on all accounts, in particular your last point as my findings indicate in my previous posts using our own Australian government Database of Adverse Event Notifications – medicines.

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        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day Konrad,
        Of course you’re right. My mistake. My only excuse is that I was thinking of people whose only protection was their untrained immune system, and remained too focused.
        Cheers
        Dave B

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      el gordo

      Modern societies cannot afford the economic dislocation, so prefer to act quickly with jabs and try to save lives. The electorate would be unkind to any government which fails in this endeavour.

      Getting things into perspective, more people died from the Spanish Flu than were killed in WW1. Half the population of the world was infected.

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  • #
    PeterS

    If this is all true then the situation is far worse than even I thought.
    https://www.instagram.com/p/CSMUNjxHn18/

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    another ian

    “Pathologist Dr Ryan Cole Delivers Concerning Message About COVID Vaccine and Long Term Impacts
    August 7, 2021 | Sundance | 567 Comments
    Before getting to the sketchy part; first,”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/07/pathologist-dr-ryan-cole-delivers-concerning-message-about-covid-vaccine-and-long-term-impacts/

    Read it all

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      Analitik

      I love this part

      The clinical trial was assembled to produce only one result. THAT is not science. THAT is sketchy and points to an ulterior motive. That is not science, that’s political science.

      Just like the creation of the IPCC

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      Konrad

      Watch Dr Cole’s video at the link.
      His information about 12,000 Quackzine deaths in the US and virtually no autopsies is very concerning and mirrors what is going on in Australia.

      Note also that his tissue slides showing scarring and damage to organs with high expression of ACE2 receptors are from spike proteins alone, not the virus.

      He too suspects that some adverse reactions and deaths are due to injection of “vaccines” into people with prior Fauci Flu exposure.

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    another ian

    “Alberta vs Ontario”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/08/07/alberta-vs-ontario/

    Numbers – on the one hand – –

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    Ian1946

    Just seen this, obviously the vaccine is a complete failure. No place to hide for Andrews, Palachook et al.

    https://richardsonpost.com/howellwoltz/22924/and-the-fully-vaccinated-rock-of-gibraltar-crumbles/

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      Serp

      Iceland, Malta, Israel, The Seychelles are all similarly small countries who wisely vaccinated as fully as practicable and all encountered a similar disappointment; fools rush in eh.

      I suppose we’re blessed that goon squads forcibly vaccinating whole populations is considered out of place in a civilized polity so let’s see how many years, if ever, it takes for ScoMo’s eighty percent vaccination quota to be realized and the extent of the duress his administration imposes to achieve that target.

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    Konrad

    One simple way to test if the governments of the “vax only option” countries are just incompetent or colluding to introduce medical totalitarianism:

    Demand that everyone getting the jab be first tested to see if they have the far superior natural immunity. Also demand free serology testing and “convalescent passports” for those with natural immunity from prior exposure to the Fauci Flu.

    If they refuse, then you know that they are not merely incompetent but actually evil subhuman scum.

    (Come on, you know they will refuse. They blocked the use of therapeutics, early outpatient treatments and use-at-home paper antigen tests.)

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      PeterS

      As you implied it’s moot. They will not stop the train to totalitarianism. It’s inevitable so we all just have to be prepared and do what we can to live with it, or die as a result of it depending on the individual’s circumstances and beliefs. The train is too fast and powerful to be stopped other than perhaps say at least 50% of the population refusing to comply with the restrictions and other demands put upon us by officialdom and voicing their opinion is a peaceful manner to everyone including their relatives, friends, bosses and workmates who are on the dark side. However, I can’t see that happening for a variety of reasons. In fact I fear if it does it will lead to something even more sinister as the troops are deployed. So, in some ways I prefer we just sit down in the train and wait for the crash while being prepared as best you can. There will be survivors.

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        Konrad

        Peter, it’s not all doom and gloom.

        The Quackzines are failing faster than expected. News of this is spreading faster than they can jab. The “vax only option” governments have already taken a massive hit to their “vaccine passports” plan, being forced to admit that the “fully vaccinated” are spreading the new strains just like the unvaccinated.

        I believe they are about to take another big hit. I believe the ADE risk for those who took the Quackzines is real. And this means that “booster shots forever” plan would be a dead end as the booster shots will start to create adverse reactions in the “fully vaccinated”.

        There are a number of signs pointing to an ADE problem:
        The poisonous gnome Dr. Fauci is now pushing anti-viral therapeutics when before he rubbished them.
        Pfizer is admitting that the “vaccines” alone will not work and are promising “Pfizermectin” soon.
        The WHO is suddenly suggesting a moratorium on booster shots, but their claimed reasons don’t add up.

        I believe the evil doers are about to get a nasty surprise.

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          PeterS

          As I said, there will be survivors. I pray to be among them. Yes, it’s not all doom and gloom. I want all this to proceed ASAP so we can get out of all this evilness in the world but it’s not up to me. I will just let the evil do its job because I know it will be defeated and exterminated one day. We just have to be patient. Things will get much worse before it gets better. That is reality. Those who don’t want to listen and stick their heads in the sand will do so at their own peril. Although it saddens me to see so many people do that and witness so much evil spreading around us, I am joyful in knowing it will all end one day and the there will be no more evil for eternity.

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    Vicki Sanderson

    Here is the link to the Fauci interview with CSIS a few days ago with the”pivot”towards anti-viral:

    https://www.csis.org/events/conversation-dr-anthony-fauci-antiviral-program-pandemics

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      RossP

      Part of the reason for that Vicki, is his mates at Pfizer are working rapidly to develop an antiviral. Some are saying it is an Ivermectin “look alike”. I’ve seen a tweet from Pfizer that confirms this.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    When a covid test is done why aren’t the following data reported or tests done?:

    1) Number of PCR replication cycles.
    2) Vitamin D level.
    3) Existence of existing antibodies for COVID.

    This data would be very helpful.

    E.g.:

    1) PCR replication beyond 30 are useless, even Lord Fauci said so.

    2) We know Vit D has a protective effect against covid and other infection. A deficiency can easily be corrected.

    3) An antibody test would show previous exposure to covid and immunity.

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      RossP

      Agree David

      I think a simpler, but important piece of data that should be looked at is : In NSW, for instance, look back at how many positive results were reported as a ratio of the number of tests done. I’m only guessing, but I suspect that say 2 -3 months ago the number of tests done were a lot lower, than presently been done, but I doubt there were zero positives.

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      RickWill

      I can answer the 3 questions now as they apply in Australia:
      1. Pointless – All positive cases in Australia have genomic sequencing so the contact tracing can determine the exact chain. That is how they know people with Covid tell lies about what they have been up to.
      2. There are reports that Vitamin D dramatically improves outcomes. These were detailed last year on this blog. About half the people in western countries are Vitamin D deficient. The highest efficiency is those with pigmented shin living indoors at high latitudes.
      3. For Australia, the number with natural immunity is so small it is irrelevant. In places like the USA, herd immunity is estimated to be a significant level, it should exceed 10% given 36M reported cases – there will be some case unreported who survived.

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      • #
        Analitik

        #1 While they do use high cycle count testing for genomic tracing, they ALSO include positive tests for the very high cycle thresholds in the case counts.
        So your information is immaterial for the point that David is making – the cycle thresholds TO DETERMINE A POSITIVITY CASE are far too high and inflate the figures

        #2 The level used to determine that someone is deficient in Vitamin D relates to avoiding ricketts. The level needed for optimum immune response is about double that. The percentage of the population with suboptimal Vitamin D levels in relation to dealing with COVID-19 is far more than half.

        #3 Almost zero natural immunity is insignificant for herd immunity but 10% is a notable amount? How to you justify this?

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    PeterS

    Here’s an interesting observation from someone but I modified to be more accurate. In over 12 months we’ve gone from, vaccination is going to end the COVID-19 pandemic and lockdowns, to you can still get the COVID-19 virus and spread it even if vaccinated and locked down, to you can still die of the virus and the vaccines while we still have lockdowns, to the non-vaccinated being threatened with restrictions by way of vaccine passports because they are spreading the virus while still in lockdown. Next the message will convey the impressions that the blame for the virus should not be on the Wuhan lab but on those who are not vaccinated. Then the vaccinated will start abusing the non-vaccinated. As this spirals out of control officialdom send in the troops to stop the inevitable uprising. What happens after that is unclear at this stage.

    Here’s another one, again modified to be more accurate. Imagine if you will, a vaccine so safe you have to be coerced to take it for a disease so deadly that when you get tested to know you have it, the test itself can’t differentiate conclusively a COVID fragment, a COVID virus and a flu virus.

    When is this lunacy train going to stop so I can get off? When are our officialdom including PM Morrison going to stop telling us lies?

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    Vicki Sanderson

    Greg Hunt just announced imminent availability of monoclonal antibody treatment designed for the onset of Covid 19. Fantastic, although they are not without side effects, as I understand.

    But the CMO also referred ever so briefly to the anti-viral “pill” which is currently being developed & hopefully available soon. THAT is the game-changer.

    Fantastic to see Greg Hunt have the guts to announce these, given the mania for vaccination by his colleagues. A good man.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Monoclonal antibody (mAb) treatments have been authorised for emergency use in the United States.
      Monoclonal antibody treatment for COVID-19

      10

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      David Maddison

      Hunt’s department still maintains lies about HCQ. I wouldn’t classify him as a good man.

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    • #
      Ross

      This is the problem with ivermectin. You need a company with hard money to actually put in an application to the TGA (or even FDA). So, a proper application with efficacy package attached and pay the $ to have it reviewed and either approved or knocked back. It’s an expensive process. No company is prepared to do this for ivermectin because it’s off patent and no longer owned by anyone. It could happen via a philanthropic millionaire of course . You don’t necessarily have to be a pharmaceutical company to apply for registrations to the TGA. The last ivermectin case for Australia was probably the claims for Stromectol for river blindness, threadworms and scabies. So, the fact that Stromectol (ivermectin) is already approved for human use is a huge starting point. Which is what Pfizer will do with their new “ivermectin”- which apparently is the same chemistry or at least mode of action (MoA). They will argue that because ivermectin is already registered will mean that human safety trials are probably NOT required. So in reality, sending emails or letters to Greg Hunt is a complete waste of time regarding ivermectin. Same would apply for HCQ.

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      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day Ross,
        I reckon it should be as easy as allowing doctors to prescribe ivermerctin where they see fit, as it is a proven drug and doctors should be allowed to use it under their normal rules of engagement. Such permission has been removed by clerical action within some government mob – TGA I think – and under false flag in my view.
        Changing one sentence appears to be enough to solve the whole problem. And get the whole country active again.
        Cheers
        Dave B

        30

        • #
          Ross

          It should be David. The data that I have seen regarding ivermectin and COVID is probably better than many other recently approved pharmaceuticals. But, the TGA are dominated by big pharma and take their lead from the US FDA. Pfizer is US based so they have influence over the FDA. Your point about doctors is correct, but largely our GP’s in Australia have been removed from the whole COVID process. It’s probably the first time in medical history that the doctors have been removed from diagnosis. Most GP’s appear to have run away from COVID. Doctors (GP’s) won’t even see sick children unless they have a negative COVID test. They get shunted off to ED’s instead.

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    • #
      Analitik

      These monoclonal antibody and new antivirals will be rushed through short term studies for emergency authorization (provisional here) and be under patent. So the ripoff to taxpayers will continue as well as being treated as guinea pigs.

      40

      • #
        Ross

        Yes, probably. But, then we have a quality issue. Ivermectin was identified way back in the early 2000’s as having efficacy vs viruses via WHO in vivo trials. Ivermectin appears to have been used clinically (US?) and in some countries with very good success. (used early in COVID infection etc). I dont think any of these newer monoclonal antibody new antivirals have the same efficacy. Even Remdesivir doesn’t have the same level of efficacy and then has significant side effects.

        10

        • #
          Analitik

          Remdesivir doesn’t have ANY efficacy (ok, it may have as much effect as masking) and is hideously expensive yet Greg Hunt put it on the approved medications and they are using it to treat CoViD patients in our hospitals – straight out of the WHO playbook.

          Greg Hunt is as poor a Health minister as he was as Energy and Environment minister

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  • #
    Konrad

    Yes, that “novel” anti-viral pill that looks like a 1975 Ivermectin with a flashy new metallic paint job.

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  • #
    skeptocynic

    The Headline asks what’s the point of a Vax Passport since the fully vaccinated can be just as infectious as unvaxed?

    Well, if everyone is vaccinated then there’s no control group.

    There’s no group which can be compared to, when assessing rates of illness and death in the vaccinated.

    If you remain unvaccinated you are the control group in this global experiment.

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  • #
    Vicki Sanderson

    Part of the reason for that Vicki, is his mates at Pfizer are working rapidly to develop an antiviral. Some are saying it is an Ivermectin “look alike”. I’ve seen a tweet from Pfizer that confirms this.

    Yes, totally agree.

    I know that this is pathetic, but even if it is an Ivermectin lookalike, it will be AVAILABLE. Bring it on for us sceptics who will not risk the vaccines.

    Of course, we need to know that these drugs are safe, but if they are similar to IVM, I’m fine with that.

    On the other hand, the monoclonal anti-body therapy may be a different matter.

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    • #
      skeptocynic

      The scandal is how this will be available at such short notice, implying a lack of preliminary testing, and the high price expected of a newly patented medicine, when cheap off-patent, readily available ivermectin etc regularly prescribed for other viruses and parasites are already thoroughly tested and used widely and effectively against Covid-19 EXCEPT in wealthy countries which can afford to buy vaccines.
      Presumably the pharmaceutical giants will convince our governments a new expensive antiviral is better than a cheap tried-and-true antiviral which the pharmaceutical giants can’t make mega-profits from and therefore will be offering no kickbacks for.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Here we go. As I alluded to above, officialdom will now start to put the blame for the pandemic on the non-vaccinated. Next step, non-vaccinated people will be abused by the vaccinated. Let’s see if we get there and how quickly. If we do and things get out of control and become violent, I will start wishing we had the right to bear arms like US citizens do,

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        David Maddison

        But the immunologist refutes the claim of a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”.

        And I think that beyond the unvaccinated being blamed and unfriended, it’s only a matter of time before a mob of Sheeple commit an act of violence against unvaccinated people.

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        • #
          PeterS

          and my response to those who want to attack me for not being vaccinated is “talk to the hand!”. Too bad it can’t be holding a gun as well. At that point it should for self protection.

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          clarence.t

          If a person truly believes the vaccines are effective..

          ….. why the heck would they be scared of un-vaccinated people !

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          clarence.t

          The “vaccinated” are the ones that have the spike protein in their system.. forever. !

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            Analitik

            I’d very slightly change that to say they will have the effects of the spike proteins in their body forever.

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    another ian

    “AND THE FULLY VACCINATED ROCK OF GIBRALTAR CRUMBLES”

    https://richardsonpost.com/howellwoltz/22924/and-the-fully-vaccinated-rock-of-gibraltar-crumbles/

    “SO HERE’S A RULE OF THUMB…

    If Media hacks, compromised officials, Big Pharma, Big Tech Censors, Globalists and Marxist are all singing in unison—then you know whatever they’re singing about is a damn lie and meant to harm you, so start breaking it apart and examining everything.

    If Media exhorts a narrative in unison—you can be sure it’s false.

    If these hack leaders try to force it on you—then it’s no good, don’t do it.

    If Big Pharma is behind it—it’s not about (or good for) you.

    If Big Tech won’t allow questions—then the narrative is fake.

    If the Globalists are for it—then it is pure evil.

    If the Marxists are in favour of it—then you should fight it to the death.

    Let’s prove ‘Cuz’ wrong about us. He thinks we’re stupid and before my next visit with him, I’d like some evidence that he’s wrong.”

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    • #
      PeterS

      If the fascists start to show their faces working along side (temporarily) with the Marxists – then you better pray to God because no one else will save you.

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    • #
      RickWill

      “AND THE FULLY VACCINATED ROCK OF GIBRALTAR CRUMBLES”

      What a load of nonsense.

      It takes 5 seconds to check the validity. Gibralter had a whopping 15 cases yesterday. They have had 1 death since March.

      Their mistake was thinking the vaccination gives 100% immunity. No vaccine manufacturer has claimed that. It simply provides a 10-fold reduction in infection rate and even greater reduction in death rate.

      In fact Gilbrater will likely be the first country after Australia and New Zealand to be Covid free. Their post vaccination surge reached a mind numbing 40 cases per day on 16 July and has been falling since:
      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/gibraltar/

      The objective is to stay Covid free while vaccinating then remaining vigilant – not completely dropping guard.

      Sweden is only 107% vaccinated. They have had an uptick in cases to 1100/day in early August but now declining. At their worst that were recording 11,000 cases per day. So the vaccine is proving effective in reducing infection rate.

      The big mistake most countries are making is that the vaccines give 100% immunity – they do not. Thay are the best tool in the toolkit but not good enough to do the job alone.

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        Hanrahan

        Their mistake was thinking the vaccination gives 100% immunity. No vaccine manufacturer has claimed that.

        Isn’t that what the thread is about?

        Israel, with high vax rates, is so desperate they are actually trying the common antivirals as a c0cktail, which is how they should have been tested all along. If any doctor tried to treat AIDS or cancer with a single drug he/she would be struck off.

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        • #
          RickWill

          Isn’t that what the thread is about?

          Yes.

          Israel made the really stupid error of removing other Covid controls on 1st June when the majority of people had 1 jab. By then the vaccine had made a dramatic reduction in cases from peak of 10,000/day at beginning of the year down to double digits just prior to removing controls. They have had exponential growth since June 1st. Simply verifying that the vaccine alone does not take the infection rate below 1.

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            Analitik

            So you agree that the vaccines won’t stop the spread of the Delta variant and allow life to resume as before.
            Good.

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        PeterS

        Conveniently leaving out the very important and significant effects of herd immunity as though it doesn’t exist, which clearly is a false assumption. By ignoring it people place all their trust in vaccines and ignoring true science. Saying that vaccines never provides 100% immunity is true but what is also true is that without herd immunity, vaccines will never be enough. Why is herd immunity important? Well according to the science, herd immunity occurs when a large portion of a community (the herd) becomes immune to a disease, making the spread of disease from person to person unlikely. As a result, the whole community becomes protected — not just those who are immune. Herd immunity is just as important as vaccinations.

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        Peter C

        Their mistake was thinking the vaccination gives 100% immunity. No vaccine manufacturer has claimed that. It simply provides a 10-fold reduction in infection rate and even greater reduction in death rate.

        1. Vaccine Manufactures may not have claimed that but our health authorities, including health ministers and their advisors are still giving that impression.
        2. 10 fold reduction in infection rates and even greater reduction in death rate. I hope so but waiting to see.

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    James Reid

    Hi Joanne,
    I have an idea that I would like to bounce off you for a campaign of passive resistance against what we are dealing with.
    All I want to do is send you a link to a word document that you could look at and comment on. I would like to include a link to your blog in the document if you agree that the idea has merit. I want to keep it private until I release it if possible.
    I understand your time is at a premium and that you probably get numbers of these requests, however I feel that this idea has the potential to go viral and bring blogs like yours and the FLCCC Alliance to a much wider audience.
    How can I send you a link to a One Drive document? If you prefer pdf, that’s fine but it doesn’t have the animated gif that the word document has.

    Regards
    James Reid

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    OldOzzie

    THE CDC’S VOODOO EPIDEMIOLOGY

    Our country’s response to the covid epidemic has been an unscientific embarrassment. It is not too harsh to say that our policy has consisted of harassing the general public while exposing the vulnerable. In the parade of irrationality, the Centers for Disease Control has been the leader.

    One way in which the CDC’s unscientific approach is currently on display is its refusal to acknowledge that catching covid confers immunity to the disease, to the same extent, and probably more, than being vaccinated. This stands to reason, since the whole point of vaccination is to mimic the effect–production of antibodies–of having a disease.

    In the Wall Street Journal, law professor Todd Zywicki describes his own experience of having his employer refuse to acknowledge his recovery from covid as equivalent to vaccination. See original for links:

    I don’t know why the CDC resolutely refuses to acknowledge either the basic scientific principles surrounding vaccines and the production of antibodies or clinical data confirming that contracting covid confers immunity, but I am pretty sure the reasons have to do with politics, not science.

    Meanwhile, our occasional correspondent who is a neurosurgeon in Washington writes:

    There are a fair amount of good clinical studies now published that support the idea that natural immunity is at least equivalent (and better in some instances) than vaccinated immunity. Nonetheless, private and public enterprises are enforcing the mandate without regard to immune status. At least one very good study performed in the UK (www.pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34216472/), and specific to the Delta variant, found that previously infected health care workers who subsequently got vaccinated, were 3.5x more likely to get a symptomatic breakthrough infection with Delta, than if they were not vaccinated at all. This highlights a possible harm to individuals who were previously infected, who are coerced into receiving the vaccine.

    Our covid response has been dictated by politicians and bureaucrats, while the voices of actual physicians with expertise in the relevant fields and with clinical experience treating covid patients have been suppressed by the press and by social media giants. The result has been a fiasco.

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    • #
      Konrad

      This is the clear reason to avoid the Quackzines. They aren’t superior to natural immunity. We know natural immunity to SARS-COV-1 has lasted 18 years and counting.

      Just imagine:
      Someone enterprising sets up a “natural immunity hotel”. You book in for a week, get intentionally infected with the Fauci Flu (respiratory and gastrointestinal infection) and stay in luxury while you acquire natural immunity with the help of Ivermectin.

      The subhuman scum want want to end democracy would go absolutely mental! They’d be spraying rabid foam from their shrieking lips in an effort to stop people avoiding Quackzine passports and boosters forever.

      I’d happily pay $200 per night (so long as drinks were free). It would be so worth it to see the Neo-Orwellians dissolve into wailing rage while I’m acquiring full immunity against the Fauci Flu at the same time.

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        Flok

        There is a Covid center in Ahmednagar Maharashtra in India.
        55,000 people treated by Dr Biswarroop Roy Choedhury through Diet based protocol. After 3 to 7 days patients leave healthy.

        No masks
        No sanitisers
        No oxygen bottles
        No cost
        No ventilators
        No social distancing

        After inviting media and dignitaries, their MSM refused to air the news.

        https://awakenindiamovement.com/

        Also a Covid passport issued in Italy (a green card paper) is being openly burned by those that got the vaccine in solidarity with the unvaccinated.

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    Rod

    Yes!! ..and Australian politicians get GOLD, GOLD & GOLD medals in the synchronised lying, fake science and WEF totalitarian events. But the rest of Australia loses everything…

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  • #
    Konrad

    There is an upside to this madness.

    Every AGW hoax believer has likely been injected with a spike protein Quackzine by now.

    Once they get their “booster shots” the rest of us can enjoy some peace and quiet.

    (A small mop-up operation will be required to round up the politicians who only took saline injections.)

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    • #
      clarence.t

      I must admit, I was thinking the same thing.

      If there are long term problems with the wacksxine, which is looking more and more likely…

      … it is far more likely to be the leftist “followers/lemmings/sheeple” that will suffer the effects most.

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      • #
        Serp

        All hypocrites deplore the hint of anticipatory gloating at misfortunes which may befall our leftard brethren.

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  • #

    “Great video, most people have seen this video”
    DR MCCULLOUGH ~ 5 KEY TRUTHS THAT EVERYONE SHOULD UNDERSTAND ABOUT COVID VIRUS & PANDEMIC AUG 5 2021
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/6bgFrKwK4IXa/

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    RightOverLabour

    Hmm Glad I live in New Zealand…..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OD5b_6MStE&ab_channel=AussieCossack

    The tyranny that Australians are living under is unbelievable. The Gestapo would be proud….

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    PeterS

    Apart from the 158 deaths reported as the outcome of people who took COVID-19 vaccines as recorded in Australian Government Database of Adverse Event Notifications – medicines for 01/01/2021 – 07/05/2021, there were:

    6 went blind
    43 visually impaired
    177 blurred vision
    13 conjunctival haemorrhage
    2868 nausea
    990 vomiting
    761 diarrhoea
    7 rectal haemorrhage
    and many more

    and this one is interesting: 1 sudden death!

    Compare this to the results for the influenza vaccines for the same period:
    Afluria Quad (active ingredients: Influenza virus haemagglutinin)
    Agrippal (active ingredients: Influenza virus haemagglutinin)
    aTIV (Fluad) (active ingredients: Influenza virus haemagglutinin)
    Broncostat (active ingredients: Haemophilus influenzae)
    Comvax (active ingredients: Haemophilus influenza type B polyribose ribitol phosphate; Hepatitis B surface antigen recombinant; Neisseria meningitidis outer membrane protein complex)
    Coryza Vaccine (active ingredients: Haemophilus influenzae; Klebsiella pneumoniae ssp pneumoniae; Moraxella catarrhalis; Staphylococcus species; Streptococcus pneumoniae; Streptococcus species)

    0 deaths
    0 went blind
    0 visually impaired
    0 blurred vision
    0 conjunctival haemorrhage
    10 nausea
    5 vomiting
    3 diarrhoea
    0 rectal haemorrhage

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    • #
      PeterS

      I will admit though that given the large number of people vaccinated in either case, the chances of getting one or more of the outcomes is low but the comparison still demonstrates that I would rather take my chances of getting the COVID-19 virus since at least death rate is far lower for the virus, and I would have no drama taking the flu vaccine, especially since the death rates for flu is much higher:

      Respiratory diseases include causes of death such as pneumonia, influenza, and chronic lower respiratory diseases (including emphysema and chronic bronchitis). Deaths due to COVID-19 are not included in this category.

      There were 3,824 deaths from respiratory diseases between January and April 2021.
      This is 73 deaths (1.9%) higher than the 2015-19 average, but remains 268 deaths (6.5%) lower than at the same point in 2020.
      The mortality rate for respiratory disease is lower in 2021 (10.1 per 100,000 people) compared to the same period in 2020 (11.3 per 100,000 people). See Table 1.2 in data downloads for mortality rates.
      Source: ABS https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release

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      PeterS

      Correction. There were no flu deaths (really?) but there were for pneumonia.

      Influenza and pneumonia are a subset of respiratory diseases (J00-J99).

      There were 556 deaths due to influenza and pneumonia recorded between January and April 2021. All deaths in this category were due to pneumonia.
      This is 184 deaths (24.9%) lower than the 2015-19 average, and 275 deaths (33.1%) lower than at the same point in 2020.

      Influenza

      There has not been a death certified due to influenza since late July 2020.

      Pneumonia

      The number of deaths due to pneumonia has been largely below average since late April 2020.
      Between January and April 2021, deaths due to pneumonia were 130 (19.0%) below the 2015-19 average and 235 deaths (29.7%) below the same point in 2020.

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    Raving

    Examples of life with a Chinese vaccine passport. A fair depiction

    https://twitter.com/songpinganq

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    • #
      PeterS

      and this is what happens if you don’t have a vaccine passport?
      https://twitter.com/i/status/1424002871670968324

      20

      • #
        Hanrahan

        One would expect Europeans to remember the [email protected] asking “Where are your papers” and resisting.

        “Ming” Menzies claimed that “Australia rode on the sheep’s back”. We must have found it so comfortable we have become sheeple.

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          PeterS

          This Aussie Cossack knows his history better than most of us. He sees that it’s not c0mmunism that’s threatening us. It’s Naz1sm. He understands the distinction because his mother country helped the West to defeat the Naz1s. The leftoids here are just useful idiots who will be the first to be dispensed with if we ever become a fascist orientated nation.

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    another ian

    “WUHAN’S ‘BAT LADY’ WARNS OF COMING COVID-19 MUTANTS”

    https://richardsonpost.com/tyler-durden/22934/wuhans-bat-lady-warning/

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    PeterS

    Interesting seminar. For example, he says that spike proteins have been found in lab experiments to induce the same COVID-19 related diseases as the virus itself, such as the same lung, vascular, heart and brain diseases. So in effect the mRNA vaccines are not vaccines but toxins. One fear he exposed is that going by the lab experiences we don’t know how many more cancer victims will appear on the scene in the years ahead as a result of the experimental vaccines.

    America’s Frontline Doctors SUMMIT SESSION: The Science ~ Ryan Cole, MD ~ COVID-19 Vaccines & Autopsy

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    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      Interesting seminar..thanks! I really do wonder 🙂

      According to Christine Stabell Benn in my earlier post on this thread, to her TED talk, from 2018 approx, there was an increase of all cause mortality amongst those who were followed up who received a dead vaccine and a decrease in all cause mortality 30% among the group who had the live Polio vaccine and other interesting findings. Interesting soup of data to digest.

      Here is the link again.

      https://www.ted.com/talks/christine_stabell_benn_how_vaccines_train_the_immune_system_in_ways_no_one_expected/transcript?language=en

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      Yonason

      Yes. The spike protein is what the mRNA in the inoculation causes our bodies to produce, in order to force our immune system to make antibodies to it. It’s also what causes the pathology seen as a result of infection. No surprise we’re seeing many “vaccinated” people suffering the same symptoms as those infected by the virus.

      Problem is, those antibodies could make an infected person sicker than he’d be without them via ADE, Antibody Dependent Enhancement.

      See my post #91 for another even worse consequence of the “vaccines.”

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    • #

      Novel coronavirus’ spike protein plays additional key role in illness

      Scientists have known for a while that SARS-CoV-2’s distinctive “spike” proteins help the virus infect its host by latching on to healthy cells. Now, a major new study shows that they also play a key role in the disease itself.

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    Flok

    The following newsletter on the history of virology, bacteriology, mycology and vaccination is extremely long but important for the world to know the truth.
    Published 14/5/2015

    https://phoreveryoung.wordpress.com/2015/05/14/the-worst-cover-up-in-the-history-of-the-world-vaccinations-are-monkey-business/

    Shortly after the First World War, vaccine makers had an excess supply of vaccines (originally intended for soldiers to treat yellow fever), as a result of the relatively unexpected short duration of the war.
    Published 9/6/2015

    https://phoreveryoung.wordpress.com/2015/06/09/the-spanish-flu-epidemic-the-worst-government-cover-up-in-the-history-of-the-world-that-killed-over-20-million-people/

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    Yonason

    Fully vaccinated can be just as contagious….

    It’s worse than that – a lot worse, especially if mass vaccination is forced on us. Why? Because it’s an immunization, not a vaccine, which means it isn’t sterilizing. The result is that those inoculated are selecting for new variants. So, in addition to passing on the virus, they are generating new and possibly more dangerous ones, without even knowing it.

    I better let someone with expertise in that area explain…
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vGBDETOPAJA

    Also, here’s the most recent J Couey video to get us up to speed on why that’s the case.
    https://m.twitch.tv/videos/1111457070

    Please pass those links on to others who may be helped by them.

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    • #
      Analitik

      Actually, it’s an inoculation not an immunization – immunizing implies you become immune while these gene therapy spike protein “vaccines” only get your body to act AFTER an infection has become established .

      20

      • #
        Yonason

        The immunization is to the spike protein. It’s only partial, and limited over time, so it goes away. Israeli and UK data are showing that loss of the antibodies is pretty rapid, which is why more and more of the “vaccinated” are starting show up in the hospitals.

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      WXcycles

      And small pox was eliminated by a range of measures, including a jab, but the most important of which was contract tracing and quarantine. All that was needed was to be able the ‘see’ the virus moving. And that what mass testing for it does. While inoculation reduces its opportunities to spread so fast ina population. Why do you think there’s a booster shot after 3 months?

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      • #
        Analitik

        The big, crucial difference is that although the effects of smallpox vaccination fades, while the antibodies are still in your system, they make you absolutely immune to infection as there are mucosal antibodies as well as circulatory ones.

        The gene therapy, spike protein vaccines do not do this as they only produce circulatory antibodies so people still get infected and then the antibodies will help suppress the infection.

        Delivery is key – an injected vaccine cannot produce a mucosal response which mean immunity is not conferred

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    Analitik

    Yep, the long term effects are totally unknown and the brain protein folding possibility (as with Alzheimer’s, Kuru and Mad Cow Disease) petrifies me as we could have literally millions of people needing advanced dementia care. Even if it takes 30 years to manifest it would be a disaster worse than mass deaths.

    Dr Cole mentioned a Harvard study that shows the spike proteins from the gene therapy “vaccines” circulating in the blood for a couple of weeks. This is counter to the fact checker statements that the levels are miniscule and clear in a couple of days. I’m going to be looking for this study as it would prove that the fact checkers are outright lying rather than just misleading

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    Lance

    Donated blood yesterday.

    Red Cross now says that “if you have been vaccinated, you may Not donate platelets”.

    So, if everyone gets vaccinated, who remains to donate platelets?

    May well leave a lot of seriously ill people without any means of treatment.

    Has anyone thought things through?

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    • #
      RicDre

      “Red Cross now says that ‘if you have been vaccinated, you may Not donate platelets’.”

      That must be something they just started; their July 28, 2021 guidance says:

      Q: Are individuals who received a COVID-19 vaccine eligible to give blood, platelets and plasma?

      A: Yes, you can donate blood after getting a COVID-19 vaccine, as long as you are symptom-free and feeling well at the time of the donation. Please come prepared to share the manufacturer name of the vaccine you received. If you do not know the name of the vaccine manufacturer, we request you wait two weeks to donate after vaccination, out of precaution.

      https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/news/2021/answers-to-common-questions-about-covid-19-vaccines-and-blood-platelet-plasma-donation-eligibility.html

      I am not scheduled to donate blood again until September, 2021 so it will be interesting to see if they change the rules again before then.

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      • #
        Lance

        Ric, “Yes, you can donate blood after…”

        I did blood. But they were very specific about not giving platelets if you have had a vax.

        I haven’t had a vax, and am slow to consider it, if ever.

        Mine is O- , CMV – , so it isn’t common. Don’t want to mess up a 45 yr record.

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    RicDre

    “…eligible to give blood, platelets and plasma?”

    Since the question included platelets, I assumed that the answer addressed them even though it only specifically referred to blood, but I will admit it is not clear.

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    TedM

    Why leaky vaccines, while there are extremely effective treatments for covid19 available?

    From America’s Frontline Doctors:“If you were wondering why Ivermectin was suppressed, it is because the agreement that countries had with Pfizer does not allow them to escape their contract, which states that even if a drug will be found to treat COVID-19, the contract cannot be voided.”

    https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/frontlinenews/information-security-expert-on-revealed-pfizer-agreements-theres-good-reason-pfizer-fought-to-hide-the-details-of-these-contracts/

    From Vaccinologist Dr R. W. Malone on Twitter. @rwmalonemd : This is key to understanding “what the heck is going on”. Apparently in Israel, I am told by Israeli scientist, the agreement between Pfizer and the government is that no adverse events from the vax are to be disclosed for a minimum of 10 years.

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      WXcycles

      From America’s Frontline Doctors:“If you were wondering why Ivermectin was suppressed, it is because the agreement that countries had with Pfizer does not allow them to escape their contract, which states that even if a drug will be found to treat COVID-19, the contract cannot be voided.”

      Which does not imply people will still be injected with a resulting unnecessary shot, nor injected against their wills. It just means the purchase will be honored by the other party, so the company does not lose money for gearing up to supply the order. Would like to own a company that gets a massive .gov order, so make the necessary investments, take out the necessary loans, then suffer a ruinous financial loss because the customer reneged on the order or to pay the contracted price for it? How is that unusual or even noteworthy? Do you think advanced medicines are going to magically show up some other way in a market-economy, based on private investments and profits to raise capital, so more medical development can occur?

      Get it through your head mate, profit-making is not ‘corruption’, it’s the honest, legal and just reward for work done and goods supplied. No one is interested in tolerating actual corruption. Just like I’m not interested in tolerating baseless smears and BS innuendos being dressed-up as allegedly relevant ‘information’ aimed at discrediting basic market-economy function, and provision of health services.

      Independently operating investigative agencies police and courts exists to fight actual corruption of all such processes. Try using evidence over smears.

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        Lucky

        I do not follow:

        – (TedM) the ‘explanation’ for suppression of Ivermectin, if there were no suppression the contracted sales agreements would still be binding.

        – (WXcycles) independently operating police and courts, where?

        – (WXcycles) market-economy function, if a free market operated these so-called vaccines would not have gone to market, agreed. Yes, as un-suppressed news came out sales would drop, the company would have foreseen this so would not have gone ahead with the vaccine. Ivermectin, HCQ and many other treatments would be in general use.
        Everyone would have been better off!

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    WokeBuster

    Iceland Chief Medical Office has thrown in the towel and admits the only way to achieve herd immunity is through natural immunity. Has he just made himself an assassination target? https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1424409919713943552/photo/1

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    Flyboy 46

    Go to the Richardsonpost.com and read the Howell Woltz article about Gibralter. It is a MUST read!

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    Doc

    Swap masks for therapeutics and we might all get somewhere. The current situation provides no certainty for anyone, and leaves everyone exposed and breeding the next mutant and whatever it brings.

    Governments never learn. They get themselves into positions they have to lose face to get out of.

    They’ve trapped us all with ‘the science is in’ proclammation for AGW. They can get us out of this one by simply saying there has been 40years passage of time. It’s time to totally review the science before we destroy our economies on the basis of a vain idea that we can control the climate.

    They’ve trapped us all, including themselves with the declaration therapeutics don’t work, so we can’t actually destroy the virus, but pass it on. There is now huge loss of face, political pain and extremely difficult explanations to be made to families with deaths of relatives for them when they will be forced to succumb to the inevitable conclusion that they have to revert to depending on therapeutics to get us out of the mess they have placed the citizens in.

    One despairs. As the song goes, ‘When will they ever learn?’ The real despair comes with the realisation that in politics, ego displaces intellect from making rational decisions.

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    tygrus

    You have to be careful about calculating the population sizes are (the pool / denominators) compared to the the samples you see (sampling once you see them in hospital or other stats).
    I could see 100 unvaccinated & 90 vaccinated in hospital and wrongly think vaccination makes a very small difference. Consider if the population the Patients come from are 100K unvaccinated and 900K vaccinated and if they had an equal chance of exposure (not likely so this may distort the stats). In that example, 1 in 1000 unvaccinated were in hospital while 1 in 10’000 vaccinated were in hospital showing vaccination could be responsible for 90% fewer being hospitalised.
    Understand rates per ### population group (the group of interest) not just headline stats distorted by not understanding the context.

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      Gabriel Pentelie

      That’s a smart and valuable point.

      After all, to pick extreme scenarios for illustration purposes, in a completely unvaccinated population, 100% of hospitalizations would involve unvaccinated people. Conversely, in a completely vaccinated population, 100% of hospitalizations would involve people who are vaccinated. Neither scenario would be any value in determining vaccine efficacy in comparison to naturally acquired immunity at the aggregate level.

      What would be better is to look at populations roughly composed of, say, 50% vaccinated and 50% unvaccinated, and then look at the relative proportions of unvaccinated vs. vaccinated hospitalizations. Almost half of U.S. states have vaccination levels of roughly 50%. Unfortunately, most of them don’t separate the unvaccinated from the vaccinated in their reports of hospitalizations, and those who do have such convoluted posting systems that ferreting out that information requires the kind of dogged determination that most of us don’t have time for. Ugh.

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    Bruce

    Per Yonniestone and his song:

    “Then someone yelled out covid! and the bloke behind me swore………”

    Back at the start of this caper early 2020, a couple of us got together to commiserate about job evaporation.

    So we wrote some lyrics:

    “Mums and Dads and families saw us off at Brizzy airport,
    The backpacks had some heft.
    End of the Semester: And time to break the earthly bonds.
    We’d read up on “Lonely Planet” before we left.

    Anticipation mounted as we strolled onto the ‘plane
    This Facebook entry shows us – young and fit and keen.
    There’s me with my loud shirt, Vegemite, sun-screen
    God help me; what’s a COVID nineteen?

    From Beijing, like a whirlwind, to places with odd names,
    We’d been in and out of buses now for days
    And where we stopped was home: Wan Li and noodles were the staples,
    And an Asian orange sunset through the smog.

    And can you tell me, doctor, why I feel so crook?
    And did I miss important stuff in the travel book?
    And what’s this cough that comes and goes? Can you tell me what it means?
    God help me; is it COVID nineteen?

    A four-week tour of China
    Where every step meant something different to try;
    It was a struggle to keep up.
    But I couldn’t let my mates down so I ate the last grilled bat
    Though I closed my eyes and thought about something else.

    And then someone yelled out “MORE BATS”, and the bloke beside me swore
    We hooked in there for hours and then stumbled out the door.
    And Frankie caught some bug before he jetted off to Rome
    God help me; he said, “Catch ya’ when I’m home”

    And I can still see Frankie downing Tsing Tao in the street bars
    On a thirty-six hour bender in Shanghai.
    And I can still see Frankie throwing up on someone’s doorstep,
    ‘Til we dragged him off to try and get him dry.

    And the travel brochures didn’t feature anything like this.
    And the agent didn’t mention other stuff I’d rather miss.
    I picked up something on that tour; it’s awful how I feel;
    God help me; is it COVID-19

    And can you tell me, doctor; why I‘m swaying in my seat?
    And why the endless new reports chill me to my feet?
    And what’s this cough that comes and goes;
    Can you tell me what it means?
    God help me; I’ve got COVID-19”

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