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The stroke virus? Covid causes hundreds of microclots throughout the lungs (and everywhere else)

Could a mass clotting event explain the excess death rate, the hypoxia, the delirium

Stories are now appearing of a few youngish people losing fingers, toes or even getting a leg amputated. And strokes have been seen in some as young as 30. Coronavirus, it seems, doesn’t just cause blood clotting, it causes the large and small sort, arterial ones, venous ones, and now microclots, and many of them all through the lungs and other tissues.  This might explain the hypoxia, and also the other cases of organ failure. And while strokes in 33 year olds are still very rare (even in Coronavirus patients) the clotting could be the factor that matters most in the lungs, and in mortality.

This also might explain why ventilators are not working too well. Ventilators are useful for “wet lung pneumonia” because they help use pressure to push fluid out of the lungs. But if the problem is massive clotting, the ventilators that everyone worked so hard to get might be the wrong solution.

It also suggests people in Covid-zones should be on the lookout for stroke type symptoms, and drinking plenty of water and keep moving around.

Mysterious blood clots are COVID-19′s latest lethal surprise

By AFP, DailyMail.co.uk

After he had spent nearly three weeks in an intensive care unit being treated for COVID-19, Broadway and TV actor Nick Cordero’s doctors were forced to amputate his right leg.

The 41-year-old’s blood flow had been impeded by a clot.

A recent paper from the Netherlands in the journal Thrombosis Research found that 31 percent of 184 patients suffered thrombotic complications, a figure that the researchers called “remarkably high” — even if extreme consequences like amputation are rare.

Coronavirus’s new mystery: It’s causing strokes in healthy people

“These people are clotting, and we can’t shut it off.”

– Katherine Harmon Courage,  Vox

   Even anticoagulants like heparin are not enough to stop the clotting:

“I’m a hematologist, and this is unprecedented,” says Jeffrey Laurence of Weill Cornell Medical College, who has been in the field for three decades. “This is not like a disease we’ve seen before.”

Laurence also describes the multitude of people sick with Covid-19 whose blood clots are plugging up the dialysis machines in their wards. Beyond that, he says, even “as the nurses are drawing their blood, it’s clotting in the tubes, and they’re on full doses of Heparin” and other blood-thinning medications. “Everyone is seeing a similar kind of thing,” he says.

– Katherine Harmon Courage,  Vox

Lawrence saw a photo of a young Coronavirus sufferer with a pattern of skin lesions that was “a picture of microvascular clotting. Lawrence wondered if that kind of clotting was going on in the lungs, and then saw that it was in an autopsy. 

Blood markers of clotting are up at 100 times normal:

Dr. Tiffany Osborn, a professor of surgery and emergency medicine at Washington University in St. Louis.

“We are seeing lab values that are off the wall,” she says. For example, doctors are seeing levels of a protein fragment called a D-dimer that are more than 100 times normal levels, Osborn says. This suggests the presence of lots of blood clots that the body is trying to break down.

–Jon Hamilton, NPR

Reports are coming in from all over the world:

Hundreds of small clots throughout the lungs also found in Ireland:

“In addition to pneumonia affecting the small air sacs within the lungs, we are also finding hundreds of small blood clots throughout the lungs. This scenario is not seen with other types of lung infection, and explains why blood oxygen levels fall dramatically in severe COVID-19 infection.  – Fogarty et al 2020. ScienceDaily

Also in France: a quarter of ICU Covid patients had a pulmonary embolism (clot in their lung) and nearly 70% had some venous thromboembolism. (Llitjos, 2020)

Young people are not on the look out for stroke symptoms:

For example, the youngest, a 33-year-old woman, developed slurred speech and felt weak and numb on her left side for 28 hours before seeking help. She (as well as one other stroke patient in the study) was “concerned about going to a hospital during the pandemic,” the authors noted — even though she had had a cough, headache, and chills for a week.

She is one of the lucky ones. She is the only one who has been able to start speaking again.

Coronavirus deaths from stroke or heart attacks could be uncounted Covid deaths

If Coronavirus can cause strokes in otherwise healthy 33 year olds, imagine what happens to 80 year olds at home?

 The prevalence of blood clots also raises the question of whether some stroke or heart attack home deaths in recent months were actually linked to Covid-19. It’s yet another possible way Covid-19 fatalities might be being undercounted. Many people who have already died are not currently tested for Covid-19 (often in the interest of preserving tests for those who are still alive). But more widespread posthumous testing could help clarify the full impact of this disease.

 – Katherine Harmon Courage,  Vox

Previously some docs suggested the “light lung” stage of Coronavirus (where lungs are still flexible and compliant) was a sort of high altitude sickness which leads to clotting. But this newer theory turns it around and suggests that the clotting itself causes the hypoxia which perhaps leads to the appearance of the high altitude sickness.

Obviously it’s not known how long people might be at an increased risk of stroke or heart attack after getting a coronavirus infection.Though there were reports out of China in early February of people having heart attacks weeks later and a suspicion that the virus was increasing the risk.

Note that even influenza increases the risk of heart attacks and strokes, and being immobile in an ICU bed is a well known factor promoting blood clots. That’s why patients are given prophylactic doses of heparin right from the start. The difference here is that the clotting is so strong that even higher doses of heparin are not enough to stop it clotting.

This doesn’t change the fact that it’s likely 75% of people will be asymptomatic or have mild cases.

Things worth knowing about Coronavirus:

REFERENCES

Fogarty, H. et al (2020) . COVID‐19 Coagulopathy in Caucasian patientsBritish Journal of Haematology, 2020; DOI: 10.1111/bjh.16749

Klok, F.A. (2020)  Incidence of thrombotic complications in critically ill ICU patients with COVID-19, Thombosis Research.

Magro, C (2020)  Complement associated microvascular injury and thrombosis in the pathogenesis of severe COVID-19 infection: a report of five cases,

Saba, L. et al (2020) Is COVID Evolution Due to Occurrence of Pulmonary Vascular Thrombosis? J Thorac Imaging. 2020 Apr 28. doi: 10.1097/RTI.0000000000000530. [Epub ahead of print]

Griffin DO (2020) Pulmonary Embolism and Increased Levels of d-Dimer in Patients with Coronavirus Disease, Emerg Infect Dis. 2020 Apr 29;26(8). doi: 10.3201/eid2608.201477. [Epub ahead of print]

Llitjos et al (2020) High Incidence of Venous Thromboembolic events in anticogulated severe Covid-19.

Tang et al, (2020) Anticoagulant treatment is associated with decreased mortality in severe coronavirus disease 2019 patients with coagulopathyJ Thromb Haemost. 2020 May;18(5):1094-1099. doi: 10.1111/jth.14817. Epub 2020 Apr 27.

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Rating: 7.8/10 (44 votes cast)
The stroke virus? Covid causes hundreds of microclots throughout the lungs (and everywhere else), 7.8 out of 10 based on 44 ratings

227 comments to The stroke virus? Covid causes hundreds of microclots throughout the lungs (and everywhere else)

  • #

    Not entirely unexpected:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947825/

    Coagulation seems to be a common complication of influenza type infections.

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    • #
      WXcycles

      The last paragraph says this Stephen.

      Note that even influenza increases the risk of heart attacks and strokes, and being immobile in an ICU bed is a well known factor promoting blood clots. That’s why patients are given prophylactic doses of heparin right from the start. The difference here is that the clotting is so strong that even higher doses of heparin are not enough to stop it clotting.

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      • #
        DOC

        WX, that paragraph refers to any operative procedure or prolonged rest in bed situation.
        Just from reading the description of what’s going on with COVID-19 is clotting at an
        entirely different level. Your paragraph refers to primarily venous clotting from prolonged
        bedrest. Operative procedures increase coagulablity of the blood along with stasis within the
        veins from the bedrest, so these days one’s confinement to bed postop. is minimal and often
        covered by low dose anticoagulants if it’s more than a day or so and depending on the op..

        The coagulation described in Jo’s article reminds one of the Meningococcal meningitis. There is widespread coagulopathy in arteries and veins. That’s an entirely different concept and actually a bit scary. I don’t think even if I was middle aged that I would want too much to do with this virus.

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        • #
          WXcycles

          The coagulation described in Jo’s article reminds one of the Meningococcal meningitis.

          Interesting point, thanks.

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    • #
      Bulldust

      Pinning here for visibility:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Bn8jsGI54

      Medcram covered the thrombosis issues a week ago. Sorry to harp on, but I believe this is one of the best sources, for the lay person, on the internet. Skip about four minutes in if you wish to avoid teh intro.

      They also had a webcast last week which would have had a lot of useful discussion (haven’t watched that myself):

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWsgbgz5euc

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    • #
      TedM

      My interpretation is that with covid19 the clotting is at a different and more sinister level. The doctors writing the reports on this situation appear to be expressing exactly that perspective.

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  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    re: “Things worth knowing about Coronavirus:”

    I’ve looked at 40-50 articles this morning. This is the only one to summerize things in a simple list like this
    with backward links and references.

    That’s why 100% of my mail list has been introduced to Jo’s blog during this epidemic.

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  • #
    Mikky

    Several years ago my mother had a blood clot in a lung, main symptom was severe shortness of breath, initially mis-diagnosed as pneumonia. Blood thinning drugs such as warfarin (rat poison) help to prevent more clots, but they don’t do anything to existing ones. The body gets rid of clots by itself, but it takes a long time (months), and you lose your appetite, as resources are used to generate the necessary chemicals.

    Vitamin K helps the blood to clot, so maybe best to drop spinach and the other greens that contain it, at the onset of any covid symptoms.

    80

    • #

      A couple of very good points Mikky — I was not aware it took so long for pulmonary emboli to clear? And I must finally get around to that Vitamin K post — which is worth taking even if Covid is extinguished.

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  • #
    MrGrimNasty

    This is all getting a bit silly.

    These sorts of effects/complications always occur in a minority of patients with infections.

    Why the desperation to make CV19 out to be something entirely different, nastier………?

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    • #
      Broadie

      “This is all getting a bit silly.”

      That was over a month ago.

      This post needs a caveat that the clotting only occurs in a few counties and only some regions of these countries. The others are asymptomatic, which is of course much much more as you say ‘nasty’ as it contributes to the spreading of the contagious and lethal virus. Lethal of course only in some countries and mainly to diabetics or the aged, and not smokers, Prostitutes or those living ‘rough’.

      From Michael Smith’s News Blog. More good news!

      https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/05/more-good-news-confirmation-you-cant-get-wuhan-coronavirus-twice.html

      510

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Well put together Broadie.

        The factors you identify must not be ignored.

        One of the major factors that I have not seen mentioned anywhere is the situation over the last twenty years or so where people have gone to nursing homes.

        Many find the homes a wonderful experience. Coupled with that is another aspect of the prolonging of life that suggests society has lost a sense of proportion. Many in those homes are bedridden for months possibly years past what would have previously been possible . One acquaintance of our family wandered around a nursing home for over two years in apparent good health. Problem was she couldn’t look after herself and did not even recognise members of her own family.

        Then CV19 comes and finds these vulnerable people and they become the Statistics that no previous epidemic was associated with.

        Times change.

        KK

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        • #
          Broadie

          Watched part of the movie ‘Hacksaw Ridge’ on TV last night. It is the generation represented by these actors who suffered in these terrible conflicts and who are dying now in isolation in the Nursing Homes at the hands of the ‘Slump to get Trump’.

          I am still waiting for the Covid-19 Pandemic to break out in the State of Washington.

          https://depts.washington.edu/labmed/covid19/

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      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day Broadie,
        I suggest the headline in the link you provide is over optimistic, at least if the language used within the article is precise:
        ” Researchers at the South Korean centre for disease control and prevention (CDC) now say it is impossible for the COVID-19 virus to reactivate in human bodies. ”
        The word “reactivate” to me means a renewal, in this case of the previous infection, but says nothing about a new invasion.
        Cheers
        Dave B

        40

    • #
      PeterS

      A bit silly? It has gone mad here. See TonyfromOz’s comments below. They make perfect sense.

      35

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Not silly at all.

      A major death dealing disease !

      In Italy the statisticians are finally catching up with the death toll.
      They were also overwhelmed.

      “As Italy finally started to emerge from its long national lockdown today, new data revealed the full, terrible toll of its coronavirus outbreak.

      It is significantly worse than the official figures suggest.

      Italy’s death toll currently stands at 29,079, which is the second-highest in the world behind the United States. According to the country’s National Institute of Statistics (ISTAT), however, it should be even higher.

      ISTAT has released new data examining the number of “excess deaths” Italy suffered during the period from February 20 to the end of March, when the pandemic overwhelmed hospitals and forced residents into lockdown.

      During those weeks, deaths across the country were 39 per cent higher than the average over the previous five years. Instead of the 65,592 deaths you would expect in an average year, there were 90,946 deaths this time.”

      https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-roblems/coronavirus-bergamo-italy-suffered-568-per-cent-rise-in-deaths-during-march/news-story/68a3a4950b1d6e14a4f7b136cb885bcb

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  • #
    James Poulos

    I gotta call BS on this.

    Sounds more like Climate Alarmist hysterical rhetoric.

    [Is this BS because you say it is James or do you have some wonderfull medical evidence to disprove what Jo has written ?
    Myself all I know is there are lots of unknowns with this virus and new information is coming to light almost everyday .]AD

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    • #
      sophocles

      For you james:

      https://vitamindwiki.com/COVID-19+Coronavirus+can+most+likely+be+fought+by+Vitamin+D

      Giving patients a booster dose of Vitamin D on admission to hospital is too late to block Covid but it might help ease the clotting. Even warfarin could help …

      And here’s another link for you James:

      https://medRxiv.org

      All papers here are awaiting peer review but there are a few papers about Covid-19 — 800 out of about 900 of them. See what you can find …

      Oh, and do have fun while you’re at it :-D

      123

      • #
        Broadie

        What tragedy came first S F.

        The chicken or the egg?

        The patient was sick and bed-ridden living in a cold climate unable to access sunlight or whale blubber. Vitamin D deficiency is a result of being unwell.

        or?

        The patient has a Vitamin D deficiency and therefore gets sick and bed-ridden.

        [ Did one patient have Covid ?]AD

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        • #
          sophocles

          What does the cold have to do with it Broadie? Vitamin D is not the warmth vitamin, it’s the Sunshine vitamin.

          If you had looked at the wiki and read anything there (you can read?) you would have noticed that it is run by a panel of doctors including more than a few with PhDs.

          I would take their advice rather than yours.

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          • #
            Broadie

            Well may you ask my [SNIP]AD] friend.

            That has been my concern. These deaths have occurred in large numbers in winter, in high latitudes and during a particularly long and bitter winter.

            I see your ‘Appeal to Authority’ and raise you a CDC.

            https://www.webmd.com/children/news/20071220/carbon-monoxide-winter-killer

            CDC Says Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Peaks in December and January
            By Daniel J. DeNoon
            From the WebMD Archives

            Dec. 20, 2007 — It has no color. It has no odor. It has no taste. It kills.

            The mystery poison: carbon monoxide or CO. It’s a gas given off by gas furnaces, cars, charcoal grills, propane stoves, and portable generators. Every year, the CDC says, it sends at least 15,000 Americans to the emergency room.

            At least 439 people die of unintentional, nonfire-related carbon monoxide poisoning every year, new CDC statistics show. But that’s very likely an undercount.

            Only 13 states require doctors to report carbon monoxide poisoning. Autopsies do not routinely test for it. And since the symptoms can be confused with many diseases — particularly among the elderly — coroners don’t always suspect it.

            People suffering carbon monoxide poisoning often don’t realize it. That’s because the symptoms — headache, feeling dizzy or lightheaded, and nausea — are common complaints.

            CO poisoning is still ticking more boxes as a source of complications adding to the virus outbreak. High mortality in communities isolating in cold climate and preparing food at home.

            Still crickets not Ricketts on that one amongst the resident expert panel.

            32

    • #
      G.I.

      I’m with you James.

      I remember reading evidence of man made Climate Change written in similar styles by Michael Mann, Tim Flannery, and lets not forget John Cook et al and his 97% consensus.

      Sophocles – wiki and non-reviewed papers are a reliable reference?

      Panic makes people say and write strange things…

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      • #
        sophocles

        To Boadie and GI:

        I’m sure the authors of those papers — the frontline medical professionals who are having to deal with it daily — would thoroughly appreciate your sagacious advice. They’d probably wonder why they bothered and who could blame them?

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        • #
          G.I.

          And I’m just as sure the authors have not enough data to replicate and verify results after only a couple of months of COVID 19 infections.

          As I wrote previously – panic makes people say and write strange things.

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Hello AD.

      It’s nice to have the moderator join the conversation as an influencer.

      I acknowledge that approximately one hundred Australians are dead from nominally CV19.

      As previously mentioned I also acknowledge the even more numerous deaths from road accidents and suicide in the same period last year and further acknowledge the undoubted greater pain of those who died and in those who survived to mourn them.

      KK

      31

      • #

        and we put resources and infrastructure in place to prevent those other causes of death. As with Covid,they would be much greater if it was every person for themselves.

        62

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Exactly GA. Well said.

          Of course, Kalm Keith has his views. Unfortunately, he rarely ever submits the science (in this case, the medical science) that supports his views. Not even a reference to the road death stats in Australia. You’ll note that they run at about 100/month for 2019:

          https://www.statista.com/statistics/991555/number-road-deaths-by-state-australia/

          He seems to think that the actions taken in Australia (and NZ) on Covid-19 has not effected a winding back the spread of the disease or the mortality and morbidity that flows from it. Would he have a different view if Australia had a Covid-19 record that paralleled Italy?

          Seems quite delusional doesn’t it?

          23

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Now now…no need to label people things…..manners….

            30

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              So pointing out delusional thinking is bad manners, now is it?

              Give it a break OS.

              If people point out the fallacies around your beliefs, is that bad manners too? You’re entitled to your beliefs. But don’t expect that there won’t be push-back if you try to mislead others with them. Ditto KK.

              It’s got nothing to do with manners. It’s to do with thinking.

              21

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                You can do it without name calling though.

                Poor behaviour is poor behaviour.

                30

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Sad Sam.

                If you engage in personal attacks you start to look like the Ambassador.

                You forgot to mention suicides normally over 200 per month.

                KK

                01

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Yep, KK. That’s right.

                And nor did I mention cancer or heart attacks or falling out of trees.

                Your comparison is a meaningless construction.

                Why don’t you compare like with like?

                Like Italy, France, China, USA etc. Look at the figures presented by the Worldometer. There’s your valid comparison:

                https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

                See those deaths? See Australia’s? There’s the comparison. It’s got nothing to do with road trauma or suicide.

                20

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                You forgot to mention suicides normally over 200 per month.

                That’s correct, KK, I didn’t. Nor did I mention cancer or heart attack or falling out of trees.

                Your comparison is an invalid construct. Have you never heard of comparing like with like?

                Like Covid-19 deaths in Italy, or France, or the USA, or China>

                Here’s your comparison:

                https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

                See those numbers? See those deaths?

                It’s got nothing whatsoever to do with road trauma or suicide.

                00

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                You forgot to mention suicides normally over 200 per month.

                That’s correct, KK, I didn’t. Nor did I mention cancer or heart attack or falling out of trees.

                Your comparison is an invalid construct. Have you never heard of comparing like with like?

                Like Covid-19 deaths in Italy, or France, or the USA, or China.

                Take a look at the international stats.

                See those numbers? See those deaths?

                It’s got nothing whatsoever to do with road trauma or suicide. That’s a red herring – and you should know it.

                11

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Gee Aye, it’s possible that I gave you a green thumb for that comment. Jo might be able to check.

          On the exponential extrapolation of my thinking, Sceptical Sam says;

          He seems to think that the actions taken in Australia (and NZ) on Covid-19 has not effected a winding back the spread of the disease or the mortality and morbidity that flows from it. Would he have a different view if Australia had a Covid-19 record that paralleled Italy?

          Seems quite delusional doesn’t it?”

          O.K. that’s what he said. I haven’t had the view that the actions taken have not had effect, in fact I have expressed dismay at the behaviour of Border Force in failing to do the right thing and protect Australia by securing the borders.
          I have also raised the likelihood of poor mechanical air circulation in nursing homes. I hope air conditioning is a once through and then out system but suspect it is recycled. Was government active in checking this?

          He has obviously not read several of my previous comments where figures for road and suicide death rates have been clearly stated.

          Italy was mentioned. Again he has not read my extensive comments on that and New York which were both optimum sites for CV19 to run rampant in.

          About the only thing Australia has in common with those two virus centres is that there are human beings living there.

          What words can describe these attacks? Uninformed comes to mind. There are more.

          KK
          His criticism of me is ridiculous and imaginary.

          21

    • #
      Steve of Cornubia

      Mistakenly gave this a green thumb instead of red. Wish there was an ‘Undo’ option.

      21

    • #
      James Poulos

      To AD.

      Evidence or correlations?

      Still calling BS.

      62

      • #

        your use of G.I. was desperation. Construct an argument man.

        22

        • #
          James Poulos

          How can I possibly construct an argument against anecdotal statements?

          e.g. “I’m a hematologist… “Everyone is seeing a similar kind of thing”, says Jeffrey Laurence of Weill Cornell Medical College.”

          If you replace the identified professions in the piece with the words “Climate Scientist” it all seems eerily familiar:

          “I’m a Climate Scientist… “Everyone is seeing a similar kind of thing”

          “Dr.XYZ, a Climate Scientist in St. Louis. “We are seeing lab values that are off the wall,” she says.

          and this one is my favourite (because there is a theory to explain everything)

          “Previously some docs suggested XYZ… But this newer theory turns it around and suggests that ABC leads to the appearance of XYZ.”

          This just reads like the religious ferver of Climate Science.

          60

        • #
          James Poulos

          and my last point is perfectly illustrated by the latest piece by Anthony Watts in WUWT.

          “Climate goalpost migration: if you can’t prove more hurricanes, say it’s making them relocate”

          40

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    May 4, 2020: Links between [global warming] and pandemics
    by Nicholas (I was wrong on global warming, it’s worse than I first thought) Stern:

    “Further, we have to recognise the profound links between [global warming] and the likelihood of pandemics.
    With [global warming], birds are meeting in the Bering Strait that never met before, and new viruses emerge.”

    http://www.lse.ac.uk/GranthamInstitute/news/financing-climate-ambition-in-the-context-of-covid-19/

    Wait. What?
    Global Warming before global warming?

    2014: Next year is the 100th anniversary of the opening of the Panama Canal …

    “The weather was also a constant threat during the 10 years of the canal’s construction.
    Heavy rains set off countless landslides in the hillsides, and the heat and wet climate brought yellow fever and malaria.
    By 1906, more than 85 per cent of the canal workers were infected and the canal was close to being abandoned.

    The project was only saved by the chief medical officer, William Gorgas, who believed that mosquitoes carried the diseases, a radical idea at the time.
    A team of 4,000 men drained or fumigated all stagnant water to prevent the mosquitoes from breeding, and as a result the death toll was slashed and the canal completed.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2013/nov/24/weatherwatch-panama-canal-rain-construction-disease

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    • #
      sophocles

      Where did you find that Travis?

      It’s highly risible but thanks: I needed a good laugh

      Maybe Nicholas Stern should be sent to the landing grounds to see for himself.
      If he survives, he was wrong …

      21

  • #
    macha

    I watched a utube video from a doctor in virology that was posted a while back saying it was oxygen deprivation type problem..something about iron leaching out of haemoglobin and needed treatment like getting the Benz. Ie oxygen. Also said it means its not an actual Coronavirus.. Will try to find it.

    40

    • #
      macha

      Cant find it, but there is this series. Over 60 of them?!.
      https://youtu.be/22Bn8jsGI54.

      20

    • #
      macha

      Aha… Dr Judy Mikovits.. She has been on the (HIV)vaccine scene for decades
      https://youtu.be/tm_b9LWEofw

      30

      • #
        Graeme Bird

        Macha. Good name for the occasion. Since it sounds like Matcha. Matcha green tea, contains the powerful zinc ionophore; abbreviated as EGCG …. To help get that zinc all the way into the cell, and shut down viral replication. The box of Matcha green tea next to those cans of oysters. There should be something like this in every pantry.

        21

  • #
    Just Thinkin'

    Jo, it almost sound like you are becoming an alarmist…

    You know, like the climate change ones…..

    147

    • #

      Yeah I agree. Or those alarmists trying to warn minorities in 1930s Germany.

      47

    • #
      sophocles

      To Just Thinkin’ @ # 8:

      Jo, it almost sound like you are becoming an alarmist…

      Believe me, she isn’t. There is no comparison: Covid-19 kills (as in Death which is forever) Climate Change doesn’t — it’s a fiction.

      The pre-print servers are overflowing with submitted scientific papers awaiting peer review and if you think Jo is being alarmist, she’s not: she’s calling it how it is.
      https://connect.medrxiv.org/relate/content/181

      Covid is now Covid type A and Covid type B. Which one does what I don’t yet know.
      (The https://medRxiv.org medical preprint server has over 2700 Articles (2157 medRxiv, 556 bioRxiv) awaiting peer review for just Covid-19. I have no idea how fast they are clearing the backlog. What Jo is addressing might be in one or more of the papers in there … You could make yourself useful by helping to look, too.)

      This is not just a sneaky virus, one or both of them are very nasty. As in: Very Nasty.

      I hope your vitamin D 3 serum levels are high and around the 50ng/ml mark …
      https://vitamindwiki.com/COVID-19+Coronavirus+can+most+likely+be+fought+by+Vitamin+D
      Don’t leave it to the last minute.

      111

      • #
        Orson

        In addition, to buttress Sophocles points against Just Thinking, et al, that governments and health leaders must make decisions of great consequence from a standpoint of great ignorance: this crisis came fast and with only indicators out of China about the virus that have proved useful sometime, incomplete too often, and as we see above and from autopsy studies, wrong. The hypoxia and thrombosis Jo covers are cases in point, suggesting that. The virus that was thought of as a “bad flu” affecting th lungs (as thought in China and even Italy) with increased pneumonia is mistaken; instead, it is actually completely new when biological mechanisms of pathology are understood.

        Similar to Jo (albeit less focused), is Pathologist Chris Martinson, who runs through various reports from doctors shocked by what this virus can do because it “acts like no pathogen humanity has ever seen” before.

        Here’s the printed summary drawn from the long video presentation (with links to sources quoted):

        The Covid-19 virus “acts like no pathogen humanity has ever seen”[says Dr. Krumholz].

        Yes, it attacks the lungs most; but it also can do severe damage to the heart, blood vessels, kidneys, gut, skin and brain.

        Cardiologist Harlan Krumholz of Yale University says it “can attack almost anything in the body with devastating consequences. It’s ferocity is breathtaking and humbling”.

        We also now know it has two pathways for infection, the ACE2 receptor (which is found in organs throughout the body) and the CD147 receptor on T-cells (found in the immune system).

        The more we learn about covid-19, the more we realize what a formidable foe it is. This knowledge will eventually tell us how to contain and then beat it — but in the near term, it should keep us wary that the virus still likely has more surprises in store for us.

        “Coronavirus: Doctors stunned by damage seen inside the body”
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJVXwzF93Qc

        And even if survivable, no one knows if such damage is permanent or not.

        The folly of so-called “herd immunity strategies for managing the epidemic are include simply waving away all of these challenges and human and medical costs of the disease spreading much wider..

        20

        • #
          Orson

          In addition, evidence is building well beyond physical proximity of the new corona virus an Wuhan Institutes of Virology, which just happen to have been working on Corona bat viruses. Circumstantial evidence on the chemical and genetic level have been, ominously, growing. This implicates guilt by the CCP in actually artificially creating this virus, and opportunistically exploiting its likely accidental release and today’s global pandemic.

          Helpfully, Dr Chris Martinson outlines this case, narrowing in on the Chinese tyrants as the source for the global crisis.

          It helps to know more about genetics. But if you grasp genes as chemical messengers and complex in origins, this case is simply a matter of plausible natural origins or not, or else man-made inventions. Only in recent years did Crispr CAS-9 fast gene editing become widely available tools to do this.

          The US intelligence community has apparently embraced this thesis. Chris Martenson outlines the case for this, and then discusses and dispatches objections in a way that can appeal to specialists and generalists alike https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZUJhKUbd0k

          Among critics of this case include evolutionary biologists Heather Heying and Eric Weinstein. In their 11th podcast, both agree the medium piece Martenson relies upon is powerful and convincing, despite being authored by an amateur.

          All of this goes to the physical, chemical, and genetic basis for the highly unique and dangerous realities of this new Corona virus. That it is natural in origin is an increasingly remotely possibility.

          Finally, this ominous picture is entirely consistent with the notion that China covered up the virus origins, patient zero disappeared, and destroyed documents of past research.

          If so, only the testimony of actual scientists from the Wuhan virology labs might confirm our suspicions. And my inference is that Jo is very right to warn us of the virus unique dangers.

          I hate this New Cold War, but de Nile is not a river in Egypt. Wishing different never makes reality different. Deal with it.

          10

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Some snakes kill by causing blood to basically clot and become a heavy jelly, so can we produce an antivenonom?

    Im sarcastically wondering if this thing has bits of snake virus also spliced into it? Add that yo the bat and every thing else.

    In Revelation it talks about plagues involving “the beasts of the earth” and the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse:

    “And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.”
    ( Rev 6:8)

    Wondering….

    811

    • #
      WXcycles

      I didn’t realize the Book of Revelations was a science text, I always thought it was the most primitive, disgraceful and wicked example of a scare the sheep into compliance diatribe for reflexive mind carrot ‘n stick cult brainwashing that was ever devised.

      1510

      • #
        PeterS

        So now this blog has turned into a bash a Christian a day site? BTW, where’s that apology to me? Jo told me she asked you to do so. Here would be a good place.

        411

      • #
        PeterS

        Woops, sorry. Meant it for Bill of Oz.

        49

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Funnily enough , it said the earth was sitting within space, not on the back of giant turtle like pagan religions did….

        “He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.”
        ( Job 26:7 )

        54

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Funny how those primitive Jews got some things right !
          But it was Christians burned the Library of Alexandria
          And arranged for the old academies of Athens etc to be closed.
          So much was destroyed or suppressed
          After Christianity became the official Roman Empire’s Religion.
          Including the right to choose one’s faith.

          [ Same Bill if you want to discuss religion do it over in unthread not here please .]AD

          18

      • #
        MP

        I am not religious but I do not hold their beliefs against them or slander their beliefs. If we got anything from the Christians it was morals, we used to have religious studies when I was very young at school, these were removed as we did not want to indoctrinate the children. We have now inserted the absolute opposite into the schools program. (safe schools)
        We have removed morals and replaced them with immoral’s, I take it you are fine with that though.

        91

    • #
      joseph

      OS and WX, I came across a link to this article a short while ago and it looks like reference to it might fit in here quite well . . . . . have to smile sometimes . . . . .

      “Bill Gates is building something that we call the Human Implantable Quantum Dot Microneedle Vaccination Delivery System, and it is composed of multiple things. I want to draw your attention to one component, the quantum dot microneedles that will deliver the vaccines, and a very, very unique biochemical that makes it all work. If you’re standing up while reading this, you might want to sit down. Today we bring you ‘near infrared bioluminescence enzyme luciferase’ which is the chemical that will make the quantum dot vaccination readable through a special mobile device app. That’s right, the enzyme that will light up Bill Gates Human Implantable Quantum Dot Microneedle Vaccination Delivery System is called Luciferase, that’s what makes the vaccination readable long after the victim has been injected. Luciferase.

      https://www.nowtheendbegins.com/bill-gates-human-implantable-quantum-dot-microneedle-vaccine-delivery-system-needs-luciferase-666/

      51

      • #
        MP

        Hi Joseph, the patient number for that is a classic. 2020060606 that just has to be a coincidence right.

        Like your work

        52

    • #
      Peter C

      Rev 6:8

      Yonnie is a few weeks ahead of you Steve. He quoted that verse in relation to riding his Honda Postie motorcycle.

      43

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        One of the problems in this discussion
        Is that we have religious [Snip]
        Trying to push their religious barrow
        On how to cure and prevent this disease.
        Well that has always been a huge flop
        With The Bubonic plague
        With the Sweats disease
        With Cholera
        With Malaria
        With Polio.
        In fact with every infectious disease
        And non infectious disease..

        Thanks Jo for always flying the flag
        Of evidence and scientific understanding.

        [Please Bill tone it down .]AD

        28

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          I think you will find science giants like Issac Newton were as well known for this theological work, as his science.

          Ergo, science and faith are not mutually exclusive, as you’re basically saying ( which is actually wrong ).

          The first universities and *hospitals* were started by religious groups.

          90

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            Isaac Newton was well known
            For his studies in Alchemy
            Not Christianity.
            Despite that misleading bypath
            He managed to greatly advance the cause of science.

            But Newton ( along with Galileo )
            Lived in a society
            Which was fundamentally religious
            And to be against religion
            Was to be a heretic
            And run the risk of being burned at the stake.
            Many suffered this fate

            28

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Actually you’re not quite right.

              But yes , no dispute, he did advance science.

              Newton did investigate alchemy, however if you look at what he did in context, it was within the overall spiritual investigations that he pursued. 90% of what he did was Christian theology, it seems it was also along the lines of pursuing knowledge of Chemistry, generally.

              He was primarily an anti-trinitarian monothesist ( basically rejecting Jesus as being God, but still of God ), which back in his time was a dangerous view to hold, but IMHO I think is correct.

              [ As interesting as this is OS can you and Bill discuss theology over in unthread please ?] AD

              50

    • #
      sophocles

      OS:
      it’s rumoured to have bits of HIV welded in …

      50

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      We seemed to have got sidetracked from this bit of OS’s comment:

      Im sarcastically wondering if this thing has bits of snake virus also spliced into it? Add that yo the bat and every thing else.

      I wouldn’t be sarcastic about it. Until such time as the world finds out what the Chinese Communist Party was up to in its Wuhan Biolab we need to hold our sarcasm.

      Why did they destroy the samples? Why did they destroy the records?

      There’s likely to be a snake in the grass whenever there’s a Communist about.

      70

      • #
        MP

        Sam.
        Nothing gets out of China without CCP approval, nothing. Which makes you wonder are they setting themselves up or are we all being set up.
        They are stockpiling Iron, Aluminium and coal.
        Basically a defensive navy and a sh#t load of subs.
        Ring of defensive islands
        If you wish to conduct a war, best be on your terms and in your back yard.

        Just putting that out there.

        30

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Makes perfect sense…stockpiling for when supplies are blockaded….

          I guess we’ll just have to burn our own coal for a bit…..oh dear…. :-)

          30

          • #
            MP

            China has the biggest coal mining and there own Iron ore, not enough to supply the worlds consumption but enough to supply Military requirements.
            We have been de-industrialised, (thanks UN) we have nothing to swap over to supply our own military, we carry a months reserve of fuel in a peace time footing and now our logical leaders are leasing storage in the US and we are freighting Oil from the Gulf to the US then here when we need it.

            Does not make sense

            60

          • #
            MP

            Forgot one, How many fighting age male Chinese are here as students, probably military trained.
            Not going anywhere with that, just pointing it out.

            10

  • #
    dinn, rob

    key breakthru from a Dutch-led team: “A human monoclonal antibody blocking SARS-VoV-2 Infection.
    https://balance10.blogspot.com/2020/05/a-human-monoclonal-antibody-blocking.html

    51

  • #
    • #
      Kalm Keith

      I just read the first comment. That was enough. Unlikely a fabrication and further emphasizes the need to pull back and take another look down into the problem, And Fix It.

      KK

      33

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        What exactly is the “fabrication” KK?

        That HCQ works when prescibed early in the disease’s onset – especially if taken in conjunction with Zn?

        That Big Pharma is not going to make many dollars out of HCQ + Zn?

        That HCQ is off-patent and produced generically – hence is a very cheap and safe treatment?

        Be specific man. Tell us what you object to.

        50

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      The USA is an extraordinarily weird place.
      How is it that a new major infectious pandemic disease
      Can become a political battleground ?
      This says something quite unpleasant
      About the US political culture.
      And since when was the Washington Post ever cited here as a reliable source ?
      Or ‘Revelations’ for that matter ?
      Jo does not as a rule use censorship here on this blog.
      But I regard the comments of some [Snip]
      As plain unscientific garbage.

      [ Whole point of this blog is to allow debate and opinion from both sides Bill , instead of throwing stones throw some evidence into the mix .
      If only both sides would argue the evidence only !]AD

      110

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Lots of evidence & data has been provided here since January
        It is like water off a duck’s back.

        09

      • #
        MP

        You
        just
        can’t
        help
        yourself.

        Thought
        you
        had
        defeated
        AGW
        and
        Wuflu
        so
        whats
        your
        point.

        52

  • #
    H.B. Schmidt

    I worked for a coagulation laboratory when I first moved to Phoenix in 2003. Our naturopathic doctors (ND, MD, DO, DC, etc.) would prescribe a fibrinolytic from CanadaRNA for their patients, which “chewed up” clotting material lining the capillary endothelium, improving blood flow and transfer of oxygen across the microcirculatory/tissue barrier. You need to have a doctor’s prescription for it, even though it’s not a controlled substance, but it should be a first line of defense in prophylactic therapy for microclotting situations such as this (along with heparin.)

    Maybe this can help some people you know, Jo.

    CanadaRNA.com

    70

  • #
    eliza

    Good luck with your paranoia Jo I think you have lost it your website is FRito as we say in spanish cheers In the meantime 200000 old people and others with preconditions like cancer influenza ect, die EACH DAY and we have closed the whole world for a nothing burger virus my view anyway. This virus should have been left to do its thing!. By doing lockdowns yes many very old people with preconditions will die but by extending this many more will die for economic reasons estimated world unemployment now about 2,000,000,000 BILLIONS. Deaths from this will superpass the virus dramatically this has been the most ignorant stupid human response ever again Eistein was correct. Sweden seems to be doing OK with no lock down. People should not be living outside the subtropics a very basic premise thats why half the USA wants to live in Florida, Texas or Brazil or even Australia! cheers my 2 cents worth In the meantime I suggest you get a life and enjoy some Bossa Nova from Brazil I suspect you wont https://onlineradiobox.com/br/bossanova/?cs=br.bossanova&played=1&lang=en

    1110

  • #
    PeterS

    I decided a couple of days I would not visit this blog site any more for a number of reasons but decided I have a quick look today. So what do I find? It’s getting worse and worse. Unsubstantiated speculation very similar to the CAGW hoax. I’m now convinced I’ve made the right decision in the first place. Goodbye.

    [ Good to see you back PeterS I'm not sure what you think is "unsubstantiated speculation " could you tell us how you came to that conclusion please ? ] AD

    97

    • #
      PeterS

      See TonFromOz’s response below. Need I say more? Open eyes.

      46

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Peter, I think part of science and given the deliberate obscufcation by the media, its been difficult to get a straight line through all this.

        The best I think we can manage, been pragmatic about all this, is tangents at many points along the “discovery vector” as a form of scientific R&D as the vector develops in time.

        I think if you’re looking for a cut and dried solution to a very new problem, you may not get it.

        That said, I think bear with the progress. The other problem too is that politics is also influencing reactions and activities, and you cant discount such things ( one area I’ve spent a lot of time investigating). I’m not a hard core science nerd, rather fall within the gap of understanding science and sociology, but with an engineering background and an architects mindset.

        You cant disconnect how all this has played out, however you *cant* rule out the influence of globalism and what appears to be a specific agenda. I think you’re better off temporarily right now being up on the surface of the ground, able to see whats heading for you, than just reacting when it lands on you in the bottom of the well in a small nerdy space…..

        I’d encourage you to stick around and be patient a bit longer, this has been a very unusual time, there is no clear cut path through it all…. :-)

        110

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Like it.

          30

        • #
          PeterS

          Totally agree and have been saying all along there are too many unknowns and a lot of time and effort will be necessary to get to the bottom of it all. Too many here sound like they have all the answers. They must have a time machine. I don’t. In spite of our full agreement it appears there are many here who despise me. That’s OK, I’m used to it. I’m like a duck with water. I will consider your suggestion to stay but I’m swinging both ways at the moment. I’ve been visiting a couple of other sites that are far more civil and discuss the issues in depth. They won’t suit many here since they discuss the issues from a Christian perspective, sometimes using eschatology and other theological approaches. As you are aware the attack on Christians is on the up and up, which is to be expected.

          44

          • #
            MP

            There are non so blind as those who refuse to see.

            Stick with us, there are more and more every day.

            Never leave the battle.

            31

            • #
              PeterS

              Thanks MP. I never left the battle. I’m battling along on other sites where the discussions are more refreshing and amicable.

              43

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Hi, care to share?
                If youre cool withi t, can you ask Jo to email me your email address please?
                I think with such things as cov19, more info is always useful….

                20

              • #
                MP

                I don’t do any other site, been here as long as I can recall just observing. But I see whats coming and can be silent no more. I don’t know any other sites of which you speak and preaching to the converted does not progress humanity.

                I am staying here until Jo and AD ban me.

                [We would never do that MP your too well behaved .]AD

                52

              • #
                MP

                Forgot the sark tag AD

                21

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Well heres one for you…..I subscribe to a Christian news service out of the USA.

            The guy that runs the news service, has a friend who had a 1-to-1 conversation with his Michigan State Congressman.

            Long story short – the Democrat Governor has decided to keep all churches shut down until 2021, and the whole state in lock down until 2021. Already been decided. Its all just theatre on the surface though….

            80

            • #
              MP

              It will happen here as well.
              We gave an inch and government took a mile. They will give us our inch back though.
              Chairman Moro has already stated when the Wuflu has ended the surveillance aps staying. Un-Social distancing will be staying. The x’s on the floors of shops will be staying.
              We are being primed for the a second wave, so its coming.

              61

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Well that’s a bit of a pessimistic view MP. However, if the second wave does appear, how good will it be to not have to wait weeks to get the systems going again?

                When (if) the vaccine appears then the world changes again. Until then, there’s always HCQ + Zn.

                11

              • #
                MP

                Sam.
                The Vaccine is also part of the problems solution, it will be going in my cold dead arm. But I was on Quinine for 4 years in PNG, still upright!
                How could you possibly trust that corrupt bunch of Pr#cks we call government to finally get something right, hasn’t happened in 200 years ain’t going to happen in the next 200 years.

                51

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                MP

                I was on quinine for 4 weeks in PNG.
                It must have been quinine.

                KK

                00

              • #
                MP

                KK, I don’t understand?

                10

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                MP.
                I was in png for only 4 weeks, long ago.

                I took an anti malarial before I went and for a bit after returning.
                Assume it was quinine.

                00

              • #
                MP

                Got it, (thought it was something I said) I think Quinine was the standard in the 90′s, they put me on some other drug which I did not take as I was finishing up anyway.

                Had the best job in the worst place (PJV)

                10

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                MP

                I see on the map where you were, deep inland. We landed at the main airport near, Mount Hagen?, there and then back to the coast, Lae before heading up to wewak
                I spent a month in Nuku, half way between Aitape and Wewak..

                No medical dramas.

                KK

                00

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                New year. 69 – 70

                00

              • #
                MP

                What were you doing in Nuku for a month?
                Used to fly into Hagen than Chopper inland, never got any disease other than food poisoning. Spent 0 time looking around the country.

                10

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                MP.

                During my holidays I went to visit a student from Goroka Teachers college who had gone home to Nuku.
                Apparently he had written to our local uni and asked if anybody was interested in visiting him. I knew the bloke who received the letter and he mentioned it to me.
                My father had spent a few years in New Guinea during the war and was in Wewak, New Britain and the islands. I wanted to see where he’d been.

                KK

                00

        • #
          sophocles

          able to see whats heading for you,

          It’s OK, OS. The meteor/asteroid fly by last night missed. It gave the satellites in the geostationary ring a bit of a fright but missed all those too. If it hadn’t missed, life would be distinctly different right now.

          40

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Yeah, funny how in predicting the actionas of the globalists, I’m usually right on the money though. Why is that?

            30

            • #
              MP

              I would say its because you have been looking past the propaganda for a long time. Stopped focusing on the result and looked into the cause.

              Bet you did not see the Virus coming though

              23

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Comments from Gates about a world not being ready for a pandemic blah blah not long ago said it was coming…it was just a matter of when.

                Rather than tackling me, go educate yourself over at WEF.CH and read the globalist “to do” list under the Covid19 repsonse area – they have basically published whats going to happen and the methodology driving all this. Its all there….

                Then come back and we’ll talk more.

                50

            • #
              MP

              Yeah I watched Gates bang on for years, did not see this though. In hind site yeah it was obvious.

              You may wish to re-read my comments as I did not write what you think I wrote.

              Do you mean this bit of work https://intelligence.weforum.org/topics/a1G0X000006O6EHUA0?tab=publications got it the other day, this was after the release of the Wuflu though. But I did watch the Event201 recordings which was again after the event.

              I seem to live in hind site land.

              10

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Well not really….you justneed to get agood at reading the signals. They are arrogant, so enjoy telling us before things happen.

                Yes that the site I was mentioning.

                I notice in the paper the CMO bleating on about “no vaccine no sport” and I’m thinking “sunshine…youve got no hope”

                A lot of this is theatre it cant last…..people will jsut ignore him.

                A lot of this is globalists holding the population hostage which is not on. Yes its a bad virus, but we just have to manage the problem, or we have to all crawl into holes until Uncle Bill and his UN-powered internet-enabled vaccines comae along….to “save us”…

                No thanks.

                60

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                A lot of this is globalists holding the population hostage which is not on.

                More likely this is the Chinese Communist Party conducting a warfare game with plausible deniability running like sludge through a wet market.

                That’s why they’re so resistant to an international enquiry. There are rules against biological warfare. Nuremberg awaits.

                40

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                inquiry.

                10

            • #
              MP

              This will end up in the wrong spot.
              Still going through the mind map. funny how its shaped like the virus!

              The testicles of the One world government have entangled all governments and all levels of government right down to the local governments. Have you looked into the your local government CEO. Mine goes through a short loop to ICLEA.

              This is big and it is deep.
              On the Map, Agenda 2030 looks like they are just going to implement the criminal document in one swoop.

              11

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Hi Peter, understand your frustration. I think Tony has made a great contribution in praising the site but I’ve added my own extra bit of perspective to complement that;

        http://joannenova.com.au/2020/05/the-stroke-virus-covid-causes-hundreds-of-microclots-throughout-the-lungs-and-everywhere-else/#comment-2323490

        KK Kalm Kurve Krusha Keith.

        30

    • #
      Annie

      Red meant, Peter, not green.
      None of us knows the full, real story about this virus. I think it is perfectly reasonable to speculate about it; a natural human trait. Just use your brains everyone.

      30

  • #

    I would just like to make an observation here.

    From day one when this Coronavirus (Wuhan Virus) first reared its multi faceted and many heads, this whole Blog of Joanne’s has been a source of ….. ‘REAL’ information. You get (absolutely) none of what you read here on ANY other media source, be it from the medical profession or journalists. That’s not the fault of the medical profession. It’s the fault of the d@mned media AND the journalists who run the news.

    Those journalists KNOW only journalism, so ANYTHING of a medical nature is soooo far over their heads that it does not even get a mention.

    Why?

    Because journalists do not want to look like fools attempting to explain something they have absolutely zero understanding of. And it’s not scary enough, bland old medical talk, not even worth reporting. So, they don’t even mention it in the first place. Similar goes for politicians as well. Why do you think they have all put their Senior Medical Officers right up front now at every briefing, and you even see the Deputy medical officers as well. We, the public has NEVER seen these Medical officers before Never, and in fact 99.9% of people could not tell you who they even were in the first place, and in fact, who they even are right now, in the midst of all this. Even those medical officers are putting it all as blandly as possible for fear, partly from the public, but mostly from journalists, again, who will just FAIL to report it at all, ….. because ALL those journalists want is the scare campaign that makes them, as journalists, look good.

    It actually gets worse than that because those journalists then have to filter their stories through the ‘talking heads’ who do the News broadcasts on TV, employed only because they can read the teleprompter while looking directly down the camera, and look good while doing it, both male and female, and they know even less than the pitifully tiny amount the journalists know. They cannot pronounce the ‘big words’ so all the news is reduced to the lowest common denominator, and if they can sneak in a snide reference about President Trump, then all the better, even here in Australia.

    So, the only real source of information has been this site of Joanne’s where she puts it all together, collects the snippets from other places, and puts them all down here. She has been ahead of the news at every stage, and when some of the things have been mentioned in the media, it’s a lot later than they wee mentioned here in the first place.

    You see things here that you won’t see anywhere else, both in Joanne’s text, and the comments from a range of people, not just the regulars, but the new people, the first time commenters, those who visit and don’t leave comments until they dip their toe in the water. They all come here and they all add to what is said, things you just will not get anywhere else.

    Now, think about every word I have written above.

    Compare that with Climate Change.

    It’s exactly the same here at this same site of Joanne’s.

    Ahead of everyone, and then they all catch up later.

    This is the biggest ‘Told Ya So’ site on the Planet.

    Tony.

    350

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      As you say Tony
      Since January Jo has been ahead of the pack.
      With each major discovery about this novel CCP virus and disease
      The media find it out weeks later.
      Except for the odd bod who read here aand is in the media.

      106

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Excellent summary Bill.

        As usual.

        KK

        32

      • #
        TedM

        “As you say Tony
        Since January Jo has been ahead of the pack.”

        And those who troll this site still don’t recognise it.
        Excellent post from Tony. 10/10

        40

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Thanks Tony, good guidance in difficult times.

      50

  • #
    RickWill

    The IHME CV19 death toll forecasts were updated yesterday although the “update” date remains at 29 April:
    https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

    USA jumped form 74k to 134k. That is more realistic considering the number of new cases being typically 2k per day for some time now.

    Sweden has come down from 17k to 10k. That is based on a large jump in recovered cases. Obviously reporting not keeping up to date. The ratio of deaths to resolved cases is down from 73% to 40%.

    The data on resolved cases is now reaching a level that bears analysis. Applying broad brush, the countries that got going early with good tracing and have eliminated the virus spread have relatively low death rate; New Zealand 1.5%, Australia at 1.6%, South Korea at 2.6%, Austria 4%, .

    In countries where the testing was less directed and most cases were hospital admissions, the death ratio to resolved is much higher; Italy 26%, USA 27% (but only 25% of cases resolved), Belgium 39% with 50% resolved.

    Countries with a high death to resolved ratio indicates that there were many more people now immune who were not assessed. For example, USA could have at least 10 times the number of assessed cases already immune; say 15M.

    Given that Sweden is making no effort to trace or broadly test it is reasonable to expect their death to resolved ratio will end up being the highest. So 40% could be where it settles despite only 30% of cases being resolved.

    As countries get the bulk of their cases resolved, the death ratio to resolved will be revealing on the different strategies and controls. Spain’s lockdown was particularly effective in achieving exponential decay in virus reproduction:
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/
    Spain has a death to recovery ration of 14%, indicating that they have a somewhat effective tracing program as they are finding more cases that are not requiring hospitalisation.

    Another aspect that is worth appreciating is that the clinical progression to death varies significantly across cases. The range in China was 15 to 52 days. The average also varies for countries from about 12 days to 20 days. That could be the result of bed shortages but would need teasing out.

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      Bill In Oz

      Thanks Rick once again for providing
      Information and commentary which is based on the data.
      If only all the commenters here could do that.
      :-(

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    Slithers

    Safety in Numbers.
    I am a Logician, I look under stones and try understand all I find there. There are some aspects of the effects upon the Human body that have me worried, but reveal yet more stones to look under.
    My thought process went like this:-
    SARS-CoV-2 is a virus with a key to our ACE2 receptors. The virus is known to infect the tiny cells (alveolar) in our lung where it can replicate and cause the disease COVID-19. This disease can and does have devastating effects on humans, especially the people with pre-existing conditions.
    The asymptomatic carriers have yet to be tracked down and type matched, so I began looking under stones and am alarmed at what I found and the wider implications for us humans.
    There are ACE2 receptors used as linings, an outer shell if you like, by many organs. SARS-CoV-2 can replicate in our lungs, it has been found in the internal linings of blood vessels. There have been people who present with strokes that test positive to COVID-19 and CT scans show clusters of damage. This is similar to what is often seen in CT scans of the lungs. To me this suggests that the virus likes its own company, after all as it is swept along a blood vessel why or how does it manage to form a cluster of infected ACE2 receptors?
    The damage to lungs and blood vessels is now known and under investigation, but what about all the other organs, what is the potential for long term damage there that all survivors may experience.
    The most urgent investigation should be into why more males than females die from COVID-19.
    Almost as urgent is an investigation to establish if the virus can replicate in any other organ.
    The long-term effect on the Testicles ability to produce sperm is also crucial, as we could win the battle and loose the war if male fertility is compromised!
    Hope this promotes discussion and not more panic.

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Slithers,
      I’ve seen a presentation describing the virus having an impact on kidneys and liver as well as lungs. Think it was by one of the doctors referred to here previously in the last few weeks. Not sure that I kept the link, as I took it as a warning, but didn’t expect to need it again.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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    • #

      Slithers, if the virus can infect the lining of blood vessels and cause clots I think by definition it can damage any organ and the long term manifestations depend on luck, to some extent, of where the damage occurred.

      We may only see some of this in long term studies and excess mortality.

      If the virus mainly damages those who would have died soon, we will see a dip in mortality in the coming months. But if it damages livers, brains, pancreas, etc, that may not be known without expensive body scans to show those clots or damaged areas. We may see a longer term tail effect in mortality and it will be difficult to unpack the stats and see the reasons.

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        Slithers

        Hi Jo, great work you do here, but I am not referring to morbidity numbers, but to a lowering of births, which wont be visible for months if not years!
        Yes I had my cynic pills this morning.

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          WXcycles

          Vit D3 is very good to testicular health, size and sperm count.

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          Orson

          Lowering of births from death inflicted mostly upon those past their childbearing years? How can that outcome work?

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          • #
            Slithers

            You seem to have a bad case of Ostridge Fever!
            Have you not read or understood older males with young wives producing offspring?
            Not heard about young people contracting the disease and apparently recovering with no lasting effects?
            Please use that grey stuff between your ears before making spurious comments.

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        OriginalSteve

        Jo, I had a horrible thought…I wonder if its like SV40 and a cancer causing virus?

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      Brenda Spence

      Just wondering if one is taking ACE inhibitors or Angiotensin receptor blockers, is one more or less, susceptible to this virus.

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    Rocket Rod

    Coconut oil (or coconut water) looking promising!
    I normally drink cw every day anyway.
    Stocking up time again…

    Dr. Fabian M. Dayrit, PhD, from Ateneo de Manila University, along with the help of Dr. Mary T. Newport, MD, from Spring Hill Neonatology in Florida, looked at the known antiviral benefits of coconut oil to see if they may also apply to the Wuhan coronavirus (COVID-19). What they found is certainly promising, especially since there is no other known remedy or cure for this novel virus.

    Lauric acid (C12), along with its derivative monolaurin, has been known for many years to possess natural antiviral activity. A medium-chain fatty acid that comprises about 50 percent of coconut oil’s makeup, lauric acid is widely recognized as a “super” nutrient, as is monolaurin, which is produced by the body’s own enzymes upon ingestion of coconut oil.

    These nutrients work in tandem to disintegrate the “envelopes” that surround viruses, Dayrit and Newport explain, and this includes the Wuhan coronavirus (COVID-19). These two nutrients can also inhibit late-stage maturation in the replicative cycle of viruses, as well as prevent the binding of viral proteins to the host cell membrane.

    more here:

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-05-04-study-coconut-oil-molecules-effective-against-coronavirus.html

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      Sceptical Sam

      especially since there is no other known remedy or cure for this novel virus.

      You might like to revisit that assertion Rocket Rod.

      I’m sceptical as to its accuracy.

      To help you along your revisitation path you might like to start here:

      http://joannenova.com.au/2020/04/weekend-unthreaded-308/#comment-2318165

      And, take your time to follow back the links provided.

      HCQ + Zn + Azithromycin.

      Zev Zelenko.

      Then tell us what you think.

      Didier Raoult.

      Ban Truong.

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    Philip

    Got to give it to Jo. A hell of a lot of pro freedom pressure on this issue from the usual allies. Yet she hasn’t flinched. One of the most fascinating things about this whole virus issue is the splitting of opinion across the political divide. I personally sway between the two. My foundation belief being the borders should have been shut much earlier, which I never deviate from. We’d be fine by now if they did. Big mistake.

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      Kalm Keith

      Hi Phillip, that seems to be a broad spectrum outline that misrepresents the view of a few of us here on the blog.

      The work that Jo has put in on this topic has been incredible. New leads on different aspects of the CV19 thing every few days.

      Many people tend to think that there’s a sensible effective alternate route to dealing with this horrible disease that could contain the spread without complete lockdown.

      Unfortunately anyone who puts their head up to say this is abused by the echo chamber community who have found a place in life as the honour guard.

      Absolutely, this is a horrible disease but please don’t increase the human suffering unnecessarily by the simplistic political expedient of Crushing Lockdown.

      We Must screen our borders: we must immediately isolate CV19 cases and contacts: we must research and find a better means of dealing with it, but please consider the human damage being done Right now by Politicians, Media and academia.

      KK

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      Philip, shucks, thanks. Yes, the task to focus the right is a priority. Some of the fears of the protestors are very real and some are not. Fans of freedom need to pick the path carefully.

      There are major threats to our freedom, there are conflicts of interest. There are corrupt officials. The UN and The WHO and some of our academics have let us down (most Chief Medical Advisors, and Fauci needs to answer some hard questions). Running alongside this, there was need a lockdown, a need for a temporary loss of freedom, in order to save the freedoms we are so privileged to have.

      There is an industry that profits from having a continual low exposure to a viral threat. Extinction of this virus doesn’t suit them. The open borders vested interests are still there too.

      Keeping those borders closed — except to countries that have extinguished this virus is going to be a battle.

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      MP

      Its not pro-freedom, its about our rights and freedoms that are guaranteed to us. (remember them)

      No one has ever denied the climate changes.
      No one has ever denied the virus.
      This is the AGW debate
      Don’t believe the people in white jackets shouting “you want to kill young people”. Don’t believe the media. Don’t believe the government. Don’t believe the studies. Don’t believe the experts. Believe the government departments are fudging the numbers.

      Yet in this debate, believe every one of those same people, all the while shouting “you just want to kill old people”, all the above have magically stopped lying and we are supposed to believe them now?

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        Bill In Oz

        Those killed by this CCP virus have no rights at all
        Beyond those in their wills.
        Those made gravely ill by this CCP virus
        Have lost the right to a decent life.
        And the dead now number in hundreds of thousands.

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        Graeme Bird

        “No one has ever denied the virus.” Actually a couple of very good scientist/doctors have. I DISAGREE with them in terms of this specific virus. Even though I see their general paradigm as the better one. There is such a thing as exosome theory. And in this theory, and indeed in practice, its very hard to distinguish a virus from an exosome. Exosomes are important and do a lot of good things. As viruses, if we were still in underpopulated small clan conditions, they would probably have little in the way of downside. Since these guys have such a good paradigm they wind up playing down ,to a rather disturbing degree, the potential for virus infection in its entirety. But they are certainly worthwhile listening too. I refer you to the excellent Dr Thomas Cowan and Dr Andrew Kaufman.

        A good intelligence operation is designed to make fools of us all. In this case I believe these guys have come off the beam, only in the sense that their superior paradigm doesn’t relate to the specific case to hand. While this virus almost definitely started off a bat exosome, that would not hurt us were we under small clan, sparsely populated conditions (and with ancestral vitamin D levels) the reality is that we now know that this bat exosome (okay virus) has been monkeyed it. Using gain-of-function studies. So I take this virus to be very dangerous.

        In terms of being made a fool of ….. Take the excellent journalist Jon Rappaport. He started off looking good, then he looked bad, now he’s looking good again, but as the secondary damage of this virus kicks in I predict he’ll look like a fool again. The way these operations make everyone look bad, is something thats designed into the overall plan of action.

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    OriginalSteve

    Climate hysteria rebooting…

    https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/blown-away-safe-climate-niche-closing-fast-with-billions-at-risk-20200504-p54pod.html

    “As many as 3.5 billion people will be exposed to “near-unliveable” temperatures averaging 29 degrees through the year by 2070. Less than 1 per cent of the Earth’s surface now endures such heat.

    “That heat compares with the narrow 11- to 15-degree range that has supported civilisation over the past six millennia, according to research published Tuesday in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    “”Absent climate mitigation or migration, a substantial part of humanity will be exposed to mean annual temperatures warmer than nearly anywhere today,” the paper said.

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      Bill In Oz

      Such hysteria deserves a big red thumb !

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      WXcycles

      The comfort range sweet-spot in N QLD is from 19 C to 29 C.

      30 C to 34 C is a normal summer.

      34 C to 39 C becomes uncomfortable.

      18 C to 10 C is a normal winter.

      And 9 C to 4 C becomes uncomfortable.

      Anyone who’s reaching a max as high as 29 C would have almost the perfect temperature range. That’s 3.5 billion very lucky humans. And high temperature is never the problem, the heat problem is always to do with high humidity level.

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        sophocles

        The author of that tract is not very forward looking nor knowledgeable or he would know about the coming cold.

        I’m not going to tell him but I will be keeping a copy of his article for `future reference.’

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      Orson

      Where’s my T-shirt!” Svante Arrhenius says ‘Warmer is Better’ (even though the early 20th century was very likely hotter than today).

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    Ross

    And yet, despite some of this evidence by people working at the pointy end i.e the ICU medicos, we still have politicians obsessed with supply of ventilators. This morning Gladys B in her daily presser was announcing how some NSW manufacturers were now able to produce them locally, as if this was an essential thing. From my understanding, I thought we were already in over supply.

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      They are afraid of the second wave, and wet lung pnumonia is still a threat from Covid, though hopefully we can prevent more patients from getting there.

      If borders stay shut, we could earn many geopolitical points by using that excess to help our poorer neighbors who probably really could use all our excess equipment and drugs.

      It would be a great foreign affairs advantage to be able to compete with China — which is sending in teams and PPE etc to strategic countries everywhere.

      And of course, it could save lives, surely the primary reason.

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        sophocles

        Borders have to remain closed, probably until the end of the year. (Summer time )

        Reassess then.

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          disorganise

          Depends on the definition of ‘closed’ doesn’t it? Is a 14 day compulsory quarantine considered closed?
          Border quarantine needs to be remain in place until we get a vaccine (or the rest of the world eliminate the virus, which is unlikely).

          If we end up with no vaccine but some natural immunity for those previously infected – unfortunately we’re gonna be 12-18 months behind the rest of the world and have to figure out how to achieve community immunity in a controlled manner. Let’s hope that doesn’t happen!

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        Joanne, I was going to mention this up near the top here at your comment 3.1 in reply to Mikky.

        I know this is pulmonary oedema and not embolism, but here, in this reply, you mention wet lung pnuemonia.

        My good lady wife had a major bout with pneumonia last year that nearly took her from me. The respiratory and pulmonary Specialist drained the fluid from her lung over a period of two days, including the chemical they use to flush it out, and it’s a harrowing thing just watching it being done, let alone having to go through it. The fluid was not in one ‘pond’ per se, but in a number of little ‘sacs’ in her lung, and the purpose of the flush with the chemical was to try and get all of them out. The drain stayed in for most of the one day, and most of the second day, when they did that flush, after getting Government approval to use the chemical. The gunk (and that’s all I can call it, yellowish thick phlegmy looking slop really) that came out was surprisingly large amount. That flush itself is a horrifying thing to even watch. She had a metal pipe poked through her back into the lung. When he flushed, it was like a ‘bike pump’ type of thing and he pushed, with some difficulty, and then pulled back, and did this a number of times, like pumping up a bike tyre. It was all I could do to not look away, as I was holding her at the time. Before the actual flush, the drain pipe stays in place and the fluid slowly oozes out into the measuring device thing, and it’s amazing how much fluid does come out.

        At a later date, after the drain was removed and she had settled down somewhat, around a week later, they brought in the portable X Ray machine they bring to the Ward, and took some X Rays of the lung itself. The small amount of fluid that they did miss had gathered together in one smallish sac at the bottom of her lung. The specialist then informed me that it was more problematic, and dangerous, to ‘go after’ that remaining fluid in an attempt to get it all, so it was more a case of monitoring it, and she’s been back for three visits (with X Rays) in the year since it happened, and it’s still about the same really. She still has a hacking phlegmy cough that comes in spurts, mostly during the night, and for that, she has two ‘puffers’ Ventolin and Symbicort, which I give her with the spacer and face masky type thing that fits over her mouth and nose.

        I know if she gets this Wuhan Virus, COVID-19, it’ll take her this time, so I am religiously careful, and she’s only been out three times in seven weeks now, all three of them very short Doctor visits.

        Incidentally, the specialist mentioned to me that one of the problems with a major fluid build up in the lung was the increased pressure it forces in that area, and the probable breaking of a rib or ribs.

        A lung problem, pneumonia related, is an awful thing to have to go through, and in fact, it’s (almost) just as harrowing an experience for next of kin or family to see what it is doing to the patient, who more often than not is out to it.

        Tony.

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          Yonniestone

          I had the same procedure Tony they called it a Pleural Tap and I’m glad no family were there to see it, I had a bag attached to the tube (more like a bike spoke) that collected a little bit of gunk, I broke out in a sweat and heart rate dropped to 30 something almost passing out when the tap was inserted, I recommend people in the high risk group not to take any chance of getting CV-19 as the treatments are almost as bad as the virus, I’m glad shes still with us Tony I know shes in good hands, all the best.

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    Roger Knights

    “8 Possible Reasons for the Huge International Differences in COVID-19 Deaths
    For each plausible theory, there are puzzling counterexamples.”
    JACOB SULLUM | 5.4.2020 2:30 PM
    https://reason.com/2020/05/04/8-possible-reasons-for-the-huge-international-differences-in-covid-19-deaths/?utm_medium=email

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    WXcycles

    Countries with more than 1000 active cases, and more than 2.5% daily spread.

    New Cases | Country | Active Cases | % New v Active | % Died
    24,663 … USA … 955,317 … 2.6 … 5.76
    10,581 … Russia … 125,817 … 8.4 … 0.93
    6,697 … Brazil … 54,701 … 12.2 … 6.80
    3,985 … UK … 161,506 … 2.5 … 15.08
    3,932 … India … 32,024 … 12.3 … 3.37
    2,343 … Ecuador … 26,879 … 8.7 … 4.92
    1,645 … Saudi Arabia … 23,989 … 6.9 … 0.67
    1,614 … Turkey … 56,032 … 2.9 … 2.71
    1,444 … Peru … 31,601 … 4.6 … 2.84
    1,383 … Mexico … 7,870 … 17.6 … 9.18
    1,298 … Canada … 30,901 … 4.2 … 6.34
    1,223 … Iran … 12,991 … 9.4 … 6.36
    980 … Chile … 9,958 … 9.8 … 1.31
    857 … Pakistan … 14,830 … 5.8 … 2.27
    784 … Belarus … 14,127 … 5.5 … 0.59
    688 … Bangladesh … 8,752 … 7.9 … 1.79
    640 … Qatar … 14,369 … 4.5 … 0.07
    573 … Singapore … 17,303 … 3.3 … 0.10
    567 … UAE … 11,627 … 4.9 … 0.93
    550 … Ghana … 2,407 … 22.9 … 0.66
    437 … South Africa … 4,336 … 10.1 … 1.91
    418 … Ukraine … 10,409 … 4.0 … 2.46
    404 … Sweden … 15,878 … 2.5 … 12.19
    395 … Indonesia … 8,769 … 4.5 … 7.46
    349 … Romania … 7,425 … 4.7 … 6.05
    New Cases | Country | Active Cases | % New v Active | % Died

    New Cases | Country | Active Cases | % New v Active | % Died
    24 … Australia … 871 … 2.8 … 1.39
    0 … New Zealand … 191 … 0.0 … 1.34

    Australia’s new cases are not staying low but it’s almost all in one area within Victoria, plus 3 new cases in QLD today. No blip from ANZAC day parties so far.

    Turns out all 24 COVID-19 cases in Townsville (2 still active) were from outside the community so no community-spread here. And ABC and JCU have already convinced the world the GBR is dead, so there’s almost no international tourism industry any longer, so not much disease got imported. The GBR is of course in pristine condition, humans cities on the shore don’t affect it in almost any detectable way. We have a healthy coral reef growing 5 km from Townsville’s city heart, and it’s in excellent condition. If the GBR were going to implode due to human beings you’d think a reef that’s literally 5 km from the heart of a city of a quarter million people would show some indication of it. Not so much.

    I’m greatly enjoying the “hiatus” from eco-loonery and AGW doom, plus the UN’s Infinity-War-Against-Humanity.

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    DOC

    There are a lot of comments here about this blog article being over the top and an attempt
    to be alarmist. That’s closing one’s mind to what the references are about.
    This is a new virus jumping species. Little is known about it. A lexicon of knowledge doesn’t
    come down with the next rain. It has to be researched and spread to the specific specialties that deal with contagions. There is no attempt at grandstanding by those reporting what they are finding. Limb amputations and hypercoagulability are not referenced much in influenza documentations. You don’t treat influenza normally with anticoagulants unless indicated, and that would usually be low dose prophyllaxis.

    The coagulation problems described here are totally different to those from trauma, operations and
    bedrest where venous clotting is the problem. DIC happens occasionally in severe illness, not as part of a morbidity statement of most diseases. These reports are simply adding information to the
    COVID-19 lexicon, and they come as a surprise to the investigators. Beware the patient that says
    ‘you are just having a lend of me; I know it all!’ There is a place for scepticism, but frankly I don’t see it in the production of this article. Nobody knows a lot about this disease and one has to be wary in thinking one knows it all when it is patently obvious that even the experts
    handling the disease don’t profess that and are getting repeated surprises.

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    Graeme Bird

    Insertions and not mutations. This is proving what some of us knew early on. That this is a false flag terrorist attack. That the virus was engineered with insertions and not mutations.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZUJhKUbd0k

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    Bill In Oz

    Intravenous vitamin C injections can cure CCP’s Covid disease !

    But again there is no money in it for big pharma. It ca’t be patented.

    http://orthomolecular.activehosted.com/index.php?action=social&chash=1d7f7abc18fcb43975065399b0d1e48e.158&s=82d1bc640a7a13c73ce1608af826df6a

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    Graeme Bird

    Just reminding everyone that you cannot get meaningful strength vitamin D3 pills locally in Australia. You have to send overseas for the hard-core stuff. Whenever I see D3 extreme on special at Pro-Health it makes me shudder to think that so few people have gotten the message yet. So much better if all the fat soluble vitamins are sky-high when you get that tickle in your throat. Because then you are able to worry about zinc and zinc-enablers, selenium and vitamin C, without too much fuss about belatedly building up the other three. Note how conspirator KilGates never once talks about nutrition in regards to this lurgie?

    The other thing is that I don’t think people should be too confident that their antibodies are going to be enough for this one. So your antibodies go out there and they lock onto and neutralise the virus. Guided rather than unguided missiles. I don’t doubt the importance of that. But this virus is engineered to be fast. Or so it seems. The way to think about this virus is its like being beaten up by a 9 year old on PCP. With nine lives. Very fast. So fast. But not all that strong if you are prepared. But this one seems to be so fast that it can outrun your bodies anti-bodies if you don’t front up prepared. Else how is this reinfection possible that we’ve been hearing about? My intuition about this is that in the course of fighting off the virus, your body is likely to get depleted of one or more items it needs to fight off the virus. So suddenly you are behind in zinc, and you cannot smell anything. And of course you will be behind in vitamin C right away. You’ll be burning down your vitamin D so you’d want to be starting out very high in that department.

    It really looks like we are going to need a life-long commitment to high fat soluble vitamin levels, and a very well thought out nutrient stash in the house. Plus if we want to function well as a country again, we might need to make every medical clinic give high dose IV vitamin C on demand, and at bargain basement prices. Its amazing how the medical people will make excuses when it comes to giving you something that actually works.

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    Graeme Bird

    Have people been following the Madagascar story? They are using a mix of herbs, but the main active ingredient is wormwood. A herb of such antiquity in human usage that its mentioned in the bible seven times. Depending on ones view of biblical scholarship that puts its lineage in medicine at a minimum of 2300 years minimum and probably a lot longer than that. Particularly in China where it hails from. Anyway its thought of as the fastest acting herb for malaria. Plus its famous for its results in breast cancer. So knowing it to be efficacious in some things, all the Madagascar government had to ascertain was if it was helpful with the virus to hand. Getting success with a tiny sample size they decided that near enough is good enough, and in a very short time they were pumping out their new prophylactic drink under the name “Covid Organics.” Contrast this to the evil Fauci. Who uses all manner of stalling tactics to try and deny treatments known to work right from the start. We have to get away from American medical hegemony.

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      Bill In Oz

      Wormwood is used by some organic livestock farmers
      To burn off intestinal worms.
      But it’s only know use for human consumption was in the french absinthe liquor.
      Drinking it lead to severe ( mental ? ) illness and death.
      It was banned in France in the 1920′s

      So I’m not so sure about this herbal remedy in Madagascar.

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        Graeme Bird

        Its used for malaria and breast cancer currently. People take to certain alcoholic drinks and they don’t necessarily keep them within a medical dosage. Were the drinkers of absinthe restricted to medicinal usage? I very much doubt it. But its nice to know that its such an attractive medicine. Any medicinal of longstanding usage carries with it the institutional knowledge to use it wisely. What you are talking about has the context of a recreational drug, and not merely a medication.

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    Choroin

    Jo

    Chris Martenson uploaded a video recently outlining some new studies on the SARS-CoV-2 genome (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZUJhKUbd0k).

    He quotes from the following study:

    We performed furin digestion site prediction on the sequence of each type of coronavirus Spike through online software. It was found that all Spike with a SARS CoV 2 Spike sequence homology greater than 40% did not have a furin cleavage site (Figure 1, Table 1), including Bat CoV RaTG13 and SARS CoV (with sequence identity as 97.4% and 78.6% respectively). The furin cleavage site “RRAR” in SARS CoV 2 is unique in its family, rendering by its unique insert of “PRRA”. The furin cleavage site of SARS CoV 2 is unlikely to have evolved from MERS, HCoV HKU1, and so on. From the currently available sequences in databases, it is difficult for us to find the source.

    SOURCE STUDY: http://chinaxiv.org/user/download.htm?id=30223

    It turns out that this particular furin cleavage site expressing PRRA is not a mutation from the nearest genetic relative/s in the CoV phylogenetic tree, but is AN INSERT !!

    Furin cleavage site inserts just so happen to be the exact same family of inserts described since 2006 in published gain of function engineering studies, specifically, with Bat respiratory CoV’s; the type of studies that Anthony Fauci was highly supportive of and instrumental in restarting after they were paused and reviewed towards the end of the Obama administration.

    Such new gains of function have been shown to make CoV pathogens much more infectious because they greatly increase the amount of furin cleavage sites available on the spike proteins so that Plasmin in the blood can cleave extracellularly – which process is necessary to infect healthy human cells by speeding up the infection rate much faster than the human immune system can fight the infection off.

    But here’s the interesting part – elevated Plasmin(ogen) has been identified as a common risk factor for COVID-19 susceptibility (associated with hypertension, diabetes, coronary heart disease, etc…) and now it seems we know the mechanism for why such patients are having such high levels of infectious take-off; the PRRA furin cleavage insert in SARS-CoV-2 is like a turbo-booster.

    Extracellular cleavage of virus envelope fusion glycoproteins by host cellular proteases is a prerequisite for the infectivity of respiratory viruses. The presence of a polybasic cleavage site that can be cleaved by furin-like proteases is a signature of several highly pathogenic avian influenza viruses. Similarly, the S protein of SARS-CoV-2 harbors a furin cleavage site at the S1/S2 boundary. The almost ubiquitous and diverse expression of furin-like proteases could lead to increasing SARS-CoV-2 cell and tissue tropism and transmissibility, and enhance its pathogenicity.

    SOURCE STUDY: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physrev.00013.2020

    This increased cleavage activity notably leads to a rapid increase in d-dimer levels left over from the cleavage process, and these d-dimer’s in turn lead to blood clotting problems.

    Timestamped quick video regarding the elevated d-dimer relationship to Covid-19 blood clotting peculiarities: https://youtu.be/-7-JGCn_tGk?t=103

    Quick video on d-dimer relationship to thrombosis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrsNwrFm3AI

    So what does this mean?

    Forgive my layman’s eyes, but the detective in me can smell something fishy at the fish market: It looks like this furin cleavage site may have been deliberately inserted into the genome of the Bat CoV RaTG13 (nearest genetic relative) or a close derivative, in order to enhance the infectiousness of this pathogen - so that it acted more like past, deadly, influenza strains - during a gain-of-function experiment, and that either a deliberate/random consequence of this insertion is that it also created a d-dimer turbo-booster with the ability to ramp up blood clotting not seen in SARS-CoV-1 because there was no furin cleavage site in that particular virus.

    Possibly, it was either deliberately or accidentally released from the Wuhan lab?

    Genome insertions like this occurring naturally are WAAAAY more uncommon than the odd mutation.

    Isn’t it strange that the majority of the virologists who come out with bold statements that this is definitely not an engineered virus either ignore the flashing red light furin insert, or mention it only in passing, and that these particular virologists almost all specialize or were involved with gain of function experimentation!

    Hmmmmm, that fishy smell just increases by the day.

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      Choroin

      No, I haven’t copied more than 10% … these articles are VERY long, I only used a snippet.

      Here’s another good article on the subject at The Atlantic:
      https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/coronavirus-immune-response/610228/

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        Choroin

        Oh, just to clarify, only the two quotes were copy pasted, the rest of that comment is my own.

        [ Thanks , releasing it now .] AD

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      Choroin

      Just one more update on this to drive everyone crazy with the chemistry :) then I will cease and desist :)

      Penn Medicine does a great job at explaining how this molecular cleavage occurs in CoV-2 as opposed to original SARS.
      42 min video from April 9th, well worth the watch for anyone who is interested in the molecular structure of CoV-2.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DxlkxA82FM
      (at the 9min mark he gets into the PRRA insert which differs between the two instances of SARS and makes this newer animal so deadly in terms of infectibility).

      If this was a natural event, nature sure did deliver a Christmas gift for all those gain-of-function virologists who have been synthesizing just such a novel virus in labs since 2006.

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        Please Choroin, feel free to drive us crazy with the chemistry. :- ) Go on…

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        wert

        If this was a natural event, nature sure did deliver a Christmas gift for all those gain-of-function virologists who have been synthesizing just such a novel virus in labs since 2006.

        It is clear that the Bayesian probability says it is a leak – probability to see PRRA gain-of-function naturally is small compared to PRRA GoF as a result of a leak. It is like seeing the child with a broken glass telling it was already broken. Yeah, right. Is this the _only_ edit in the virus, or is there, by chance, a change that causes blood clotting?

        Another question of interest is the genetic factors. The Covid-19 is significantly more serious and deadly in the previous Middle Francia than what it is where East Francia was. Why is that?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Francia

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          wert

          Oh, thanks red-thumber for some detailed critics. Am I wrong about the border between east and west in severity of Covid-19, or do you just believe in random immediate emergence of perfect edits?

          There is a significant mortality difference between West (like Belgium, France, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Italy, Andorra, Spain) and East (like Germany, Austria, Chechia, Slovakia, Croatia). Take a look at Worldometers and see their country rankings per deaths per million. You’ll see how bad Belgium and pals are compared to Austria. In my mind, these are pretty same level EU/EEA countries, but the epidemy was very different. I accept there are multiple factors, but one factor appears to be West Europe from West of Germany is more affected than expected, and Germany and some of its neighbours are having nice time. I hypothesise, that 30% of the Belgic trouble is caused by genetic factors endemic to Western Europe. It is important to find out what those are.

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      Bill In Oz

      Thanks Choroin,
      In laymen’s language the smoking gun has been found.
      I wonder when the genetic engineering alarmists are going to discover this research.
      This is exactly what I remember reading about in the 1990′s
      Whenever Bob Phelps of the Genethics Network
      Got going.

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        Choroin

        Bill, it’s kinda more like a strong smell which could be a smoking gun, rather than a solidly verifiable smoking gun.

        Inserts do happen naturally, but they are far, far less likely to occur than SNP’s (single nucleotide polymorphisms), and they stand out like beacons.

        What’s interesting about this particular insert, is that this PRRA addition is at the S1/S2 transition in the important ACE2 compatible Spike protein, and when Plasmin cleaves at this site, it generates collateral junk (in laymans terms) which degrades into d-dimer’s; seemingly the single most important characteristic of CoV-2 which sets it apart from CoV-1.

        This unusual release of d-dimers in patients whose immune system fails to fight off the virus and halt fast replication is almost certainly what is causing the unusual clotting and thrombosis observed in 95%+ of serious Covid-19 patients. This clotting is destroying the lung tissue and causing the heart pressure to back up which is in turn causing ventricular issues.

        According to the Physiology dot org link in my original post:

        … Elevated FDPs and D-dimers were detected predominantly in patients with severe disease. Multivariate regression further suggests that age and D-dimer levels (>1 mg/L) are two independent risk factors for mortality. … Although COVID-19 is characterized by hyperfibrinolysis, as evidenced by elevated levels of D-dimer, studies attempting to restore fibrinolytic function have not been reported.

        This hyperfibrinolysis issue in CoV-2 is specifically caused by this novel PRRA insert due to the optimal position at which it is found exactly at the S1/S2 transition in the Spike protein.

        Nature or a genetic Dr Frankenstein, couldn’t have found a better place for it to soup up the pathogenicity and make this corona virus take off like an avian flu.

        So to me … where there’s smoke, there’s usually fire, but it is still possible that this was a natural occurrence, but seeing that the closest corona strains to CoV-2 have no such insert and this novel virus is quite out of place in the corona phylogenetic tree, I’d say the odds are getting much better that this escaped from a lab. Even more chance due to multiple studies being published of this exact same gain of function being successful in corona viruses, particularly in the Wuhan lab. Multiple studies since 2006 in fact, yet certain virologists are all making definitive statements that this cannot possibly have ben made in a lab when IT WAS ALREADY SHOWN TO BE POSSIBLE ! There’s a popular saying that “the cover up is worse than the crime,” and one has to ask why virologists would be out making such easily provable bold faced lies if they weren’t worried about the PR backlash if it were ever proven that this was a lab escapee from genetic experiments they’ve all been participating in for decades.

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          Graeme Bird

          “Bill, it’s kinda more like a strong smell which could be a smoking gun, rather than a solidly verifiable smoking gun.”

          If this wasn’t on purpose we wouldn’t have been subjected to the Seafood market nonsense in the first place. The Chinese would have had a trail of infection from the bats many hundreds of miles away and into the city. Rather than from the city outward. There wouldn’t be the funding story from Fauci or the smuggling story from Canada. Robert Boyle wouldn’t have been able link the work with North Carolina months ago. The Indian researchers would not have been pressured into retracting their findings, there wouldn’t have been three strains, the eldest found predominantly in the US, and on and on and on …… In other words the entirety of the evidence is only consistent with another deep state false flag attack. What people do is they keep micronising the evidence and they say “no smoking gun.” But we find out what went on only by seeing the way the evidence converges.

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            MP

            Graeme, with that withdrawn paper, why was it not deleted instead of putting withdrawn on it and letting it stand.
            Thats my only ? with it. Plus the fact I don’t understand the lingo.

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              Bill In Oz

              Withdrawn & suppressed is pretty unusual.
              Almost certain that there was a significant amount of pressure bought to bear..

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            Choroin

            Graeme

            If this wasn’t on purpose we wouldn’t have been subjected to the Seafood market nonsense in the first place.

            There are clearly a number of reasons the CCP would create the seafood market story and promote it.

            Clearly if this accidentally escaped from a lab the CCP would want some kind of cover story or limited hangout, but an accidental release is different from a deliberate release.

            Also, there’s every possibility that the Wuhan virologists managed to find this exact same strain naturally in a bat cave, were then handling it at the lab when it managed to break away from their (probably lax, according to the French) security protocols. I tend to believe that if it did escape from a lab though, that this was a deliberately modified S1/S2 insert, because the bat lady herself and many other gain of function virologists published papers about just such a strain.

            The Chinese would have had a trail of infection from the bats many hundreds of miles away and into the city.

            Also not necessarily the case. The bat in question could have been hunted and brought to the market where the zoonotic jump happened, thus evidence would never be traced back to a bat cave because that strain never existed in the cave to begin with. There’s a lot of evidence that at least half of the initial cases had no connection at all with the seafood market in that area, but were in the area of the lab, so it is more likely imo that the seafood market story was just a convenient cover story after a new cluster appeared there through early transmission.

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              Bill In Oz

              Thanks again Choroin !

              Back in the 1990′s this type of incident with viruses and bacteria was one of the main issues put up by Genetic Engineering opponents. Now 20 years later it has happened. But not in Monsanto. In a virology lab at Wuhan in China.
              And yes with a US$3.7 million grant from the USA CDC !

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                Choroin

                It’s definitely a very big area of concern, and tbh, the virologists heavily involved in supporting and participating in GoF who are coming out and bold faced lying to the public by arguing from authority, have shades of CAGW scientism. We really seem to have created a new Priesthood in just the area where there’s no place for dogma and where the most damage can be done towards human progress in the material realm. What annoys me the most, is that when they’re proven wrong, nobody holds them accountable, especially not the media; just like the predictions of CAGW ‘scientists’ and activists. Rinse, repeat, they just continue as if it’s business as usual.

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          Inserts do happen naturally, but they are far, far less likely to occur than SNP’s (single nucleotide polymorphisms), and they stand out like beacons.

          geneticists would beg to differ so I will. The problem is relevance. If you mean the mutation rate of SNPs at a particular site or anywhere in the genome these can be fast or slow or impossible or irrelevant. A nucleotide change is also not something that will cause a gain of function phenotypic change so comparing it with inserts – quite common as it happens – is not relevant.

          Also the fact that inserts stand out is hardly important, what is important is natural selection. In a pool of viruses reproducing in a range of organisms you are looking at billions upon billions of opportunities for genes mixing, inserting, failing or succeeding.

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            Choroin

            Aye, you’ve read a whole lot into my statement which I never said.

            On a genome, an insert is clearly visible as it creates room in the code whereas an SNP is simply a change in an existing location. Whether it is ‘visible’ or not was clearly a figment of speech as I’m quite aware such a word in science is subjective to the point of being worthless.

            I wasn’t trying to outline the multitude of ways that an SNP can or cannot occur depending on which position of the genome this occurs on – ie, if an SNP deactivates the spike protein on a virus then it isn’t carried into the future, or an SNP can change something totally redundant in the code which has no discernable effect, making it easily carried into the future.

            Also the fact that inserts stand out is hardly important, what is important is natural selection.

            Actually, it is important when we are talking about the frequency of change to an existing genome, if we’re looking at the probability of a certain even occurring.

            If you look at the corona phylogenetic tree you will see that SNP’s carried into viable future lineages greatly outnumber those lineages with new inserts. CoV-2 just happens to have this insert in the spike protein, which in corona viruses is highly conserved (especially the base section of the protein).

            So I stand by that statement that SNP events outnumber insert events, just as small earthquakes clearly outnumber major earthquakes.

            Funny how this PRRA furin cleavage site just happens to be exactly where many gain of function virologists had explained it would need to be to optimally soup up the pathogenicity of a corona virus so that the cleavage can occur extracellularly, unlike influenza. I’m talking probabilities here, not whether nature can in fact create a certain outcome or not.

            The big point of my commenting on this article about clotting was to point out the d-dimer effects of this particular cleavage site though, which was the only real reason I posted it; but seeing how the exact same PRRA feature also seems to have enhanced the infectious characteristics of CoV-2, I decided to opine on probabilities along the way.

            Thus, I clearly said “Bill, it’s kinda more like a strong smell which could be a smoking gun, rather than a solidly verifiable smoking gun.”

            Baby steps, exploratory fact finding, all valid activities in hunting down truth.

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    Gaz

    Somewhere I read in the last week or so that a Dr Poor in NY tried tried putting several patients on a low-dose drip of tPA for about 24 hours together with a blood thinner. He appears to have had some success if the patient was not too far gone with blood clotting or prone to massive bleeds

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    Gaz

    Somewhere I read in the last week or so that a Dr Poor in NY tried tried putting several patients on a low-dose drip of tPA (clot buster) for about 24 hours together with a blood thinner. He appears to have had some success if the patient was not too far gone with blood clotting or prone to massive bleeds

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    UK-Weather Lass

    Sadly when you get ill from something like an influenza virus and you are already ‘unwell’ from things that you don’t know are not altogether okay with the rest of you, then there may be an impact that is unexpected. In my lifetime I have seen apparently healthy people die within weeks of becoming ill, whilst others not so healthy looking seem to go on forever and survive. That is the lottery of the game of life, survival of the fittest, the luck of the draw, Nature’s casino, life’s synchronicity or coincidence,or, perhaps, just our cobbled together perceptions of what health should look and feel like and what fitness means. We are individuals and all of us different, unique. There is no one size fits all.

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      Graeme Bird

      Sure but there is probably a good reason for this. And we ought to try and postulate why. I think the act of fighting the virus depletes you of things that allow you to fight the virus. I don’t think that we ought to assume that what seems random is necessarily so. By their nature viruses tend to be weak entities capable of little else but reproduction. So its a kind of special case when they turn out to be nasty. And its usually got to be where they throw the person into one sort of vicious cycke or another.

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    7887

    Jo I cannot believe you have swallowed this Covid crap hook line and sinker.
    You don’t believe the climate change mantra because you researched it and found it not true. Why don’t you do the same for this.
    It is not about science or health it is about control.
    Start with PCR test. Even The doctor who invented it Kerry Mullis says it cannot be used for diagnostics.
    https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/05/04/professor-neil-ferguson-and-the-idiot-presidents/

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      Choroin

      All you need to do is look at localized death rates over time, compared with annual death averages – causation and the many quibbles over the causes of each death don’t even need to be entertained when you can see such a spike in the raw death statistics in every area where pneumonia admissions are also spiking well above average.

      If you do this, you have the strongest evidence on earth – eliminating room for dissembling arguments – that this virus is 100′s of times more deadly than a bad flu and highly infectious to boot with lasting consequences for even those who recover (not to mention room for bad mutant strains to appear now that we have a critical mass of human hosts infected).

      Who cares what side of the political spectrum certain wish-list opinions/desires fall on?
      Who cares where reactionary politics suggest our own opinions should/might be more comfortable landing?
      Viruses don’t care about political opinions or the political polarization of Current Year.
      Raw localized death statistics and pneumonia admission statistics don’t care about the politics, or whether the virus was deliberate or not.

      they … just … are

      As far as I’m aware – and I read this blog very frequently – Jo has consistently partaken in fact finding missions and prevented her opinion from falling within party lines, just as she has done with CAGW skepticism over the years. Now, just because this virus issue happens to fall on the wrong side of the fence for those who are very concerned about the very real health consequences of this pandemic, she gets some of the most shallow and abusive attacks I never thought possible within a community that prides itself on looking at things objectively and shunning bias.

      And what exactly does a person’s opinion regarding CAGW have to do with their opinions regarding a pandemic !? Absolutely nothing! They shouldn’t be conflated and it’s rather an insult to human intelligence to just flippantly throw that out at her as if it’s some legitimate attack. Frankly, it’s rude in the extreme, but as usual, Jo allows these comments to be leveled against her and just suffers the slings and arrows. tbh, it’s not very different to the tactics used by activist leftists to brow beat their opponents.

      Calm down people. Be civil.

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        Bill In Oz

        Absolutely right Choroin
        And Jo does not want us to respond in like manner
        ( See Jo moderation comment below )

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    Email coming to both PeterS and Bill. Comments about moderation and personal disagreements filed away.

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    MP

    I apologised in advance, twice. Now the comment that it addressed has been removed it looks like I am replying to Graeme Bird.

    Not you Graeme

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