JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Greens “science” means calling you names and telling you to shut up

Climate change is a religion, collage.The Greens religious beliefs are so fragile that they have to defend their science by stamping out any discussion at all. You either believe in their God or you are a despicable child killer denying that the Earth is round. How many senators will fall for this naked bullying? The Greens realize that their fantasy belief that windmills and solar panels control storms and hold back the tide, will fall apart under the most gentle of questioning. So they have to stop every question.

Reverend Adam Bandt thinks climate sensitivity is a yes no question, and that if man landed on the moon therefore upper tropospheric water-vapor feedbacks are positive and dangerous even though 28 million radiosondes say otherwise.

This is a dummy-spit of kindergarden proportions. Which of our elected leaders will call them out, or are they all so underconfident in their scientific knowledge that they are too afraid to admit moon landings and cloud microphysics are actually different topics, and that “yes” and “no” are not numbers?

Greens equate climate denial to conspiracy

Matt Couglan and Rebecca Gredley, AAP

The Australian Greens will urge the Senate to put the denial that burning coal has an impact on climate change, on par with some of the world’s wackiest conspiracy theories.

Party leader Richard Di Natale will move a motion on Monday noting that the upper house accepts humans first landed on the moon on July 20, 1969, and that the earth is round.

The motion also calls for the upper house to accept that burning thermal coal is the single biggest contributor to climate change, in a move designed to compare denial with conspiracy thinking.

Bandt wants legislation that ensures any Green-religionist can take a day off work to worship windmills in mass gatherings called “strikes”.

The “Conspiracy” insult is inane. It’s just the Greens destroying our language once again. Some conspiracies are real, and climate science has nothing to do with it either way. It’s as if the Greens are suggesting that no two humans ever conspire to rip people off, and the word must now be removed from English.

In 1475, the term “denial” was first used, and it meant to deny God.

Some things never change and good but weak people fall for these stone-age tricks every time.

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Rating: 9.6/10 (119 votes cast)
Greens "science" means calling you names and telling you to shut up, 9.6 out of 10 based on 119 ratings

372 comments to Greens “science” means calling you names and telling you to shut up

  • #
    Pauly

    A good question to put to the Labor Party: are they going to support the Greens in this motion to curb freedom of speech?

    311

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Of course….leftists cant handle people telling them to get lost…..

      161

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Jo, every once in a while, the climate numpties just give a gift that will just keep on giving….

        I suspect most canberrans might buy an extra duvet and lease a horse, wear a hair shirt and sacrifice goats to appease the green gods…..

        I cant for one second inagine your average entitlement mentality-driven canberran in -5C queuing dutifully for a bus or sitting around a candle in the centre of thier work desks in the middle of winter.

        https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-16/act-climate-change-strategy-asks-canberrans-to-do-heavy-lifting/11517484

        “Canberrans are being asked to do more of the heavy lifting in combatting climate change — starting with giving up petrol-powered cars and gas-heated homes.

        “Key points:

        “* The ACT Government admits their new climate strategy asks the community to pick up the burden of climate change

        “* The cost of car rego could depend on how often you drive and parking could be restricted in some areas

        “* Developers will also no longer be required to include gas connections in new suburbs
        The ACT Government has unashamedly asked the community to do more to help it reach the ambitious target of net zero carbon emissions by 2045, with transport and natural gas top of the list of targets.

        “Today, while launching the latest ACT Climate Change Strategy, the Government detailed plans to encourage Canberrans to ditch cars in favour of public transport, including participating in “car-free days”, and trading in the gas heater for an electric air-conditioner.

        191

        • #
          Chris

          I have the misfortune to live in Canberra, where the Labor/Green duumvirate has grown so accustomed to effortlessly winning the vote, that they feel they now have the mandate to move towards coercive modification of individual behaviours in pursuit of ideological utopia – 100% rainbows and unicorns by 2045.

          This will not be personally relevant to me, as I will be sniffing daisies from the root side long before that date. But I am genuinely curious how successful they will be assaulting individual mobility in a city designed for individual mobility. The car rego in the ACT is already the most expensive in Australia. The public transport is a joke, irrelevant to a significant proportion of the population. The parking is already prohibitively expensive. If racking up all three of these factors still results in the population re-electing the Barr Government, I am moving into the country, to live out my days in peace – anywhere, as long as it is outside the ACT.

          PS. My own heritage is one of an escapee from Eastern Europe when it was still Communist. For a very reasonable consultancy fee I can advise from experience on the subject of coercion in pursuit of utopia, and the unforeseen consequences thereof.

          450

          • #
            John

            Agree. It’s a silly idea. Canberra is made for car ownership. So much better than driving around Sydney.

            Even the most progressive most lefty Canberrans I know still rely heavily on their cars.

            90

            • #
              Chad

              Ahh ! Sydney..
              ….certainly not designed for cars…or trams as we now have learned (for the second time !) .
              But maybe they had the forsight to design it for bicycles ? ….errr no! Ms Moore demonstrated how well that works, ,….and you still have to carry you bike up stairs if you want to cross the bridge !!
              Just as well its not a big city and it is still possible to walk …in most areas.

              20

        • #
          Robdel

          I have always considered Canberra and the ACT as the perfect place to do a 100% renewables experiment for a month. Let us see what happens. No interconnectors to other states allowed.

          150

          • #
            AndyG55

            That includes renewable not in the ACT. :-)

            All “renewable energy” MUST be sourced within the ACT,

            … not from some triple counted intermittent wind farm in SA or Vic.

            40

      • #
        Dean

        Tim is totally upset we have not gone along with him!!

        40

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      It’s the 17th of September and it snowed last night in Canberra and Goulburn.
      BOM staff are completely mystified.
      this was not on any of their
      Global Warming scripts !
      maybe it’s time they went & checked their
      Actual weather stations and the
      Weather recorded by them.
      Could they be faulty ?

      150

    • #
      Alice Thermopolis

      They used to call it blasphemy.

      2,000 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDe9msExUK8 life of brian – clip – the stoning scene

      Today: Laws prohibiting blasphemy or harming religious feelings exist in many countries.

      Blasphemy is defined as speaking insultingly about a particular religion or god, especially Gaia or the Green Blob.

      Some countries also penalise climate denial (aka apostasy), which means abandoning or denying a particular faith.

      The US Commission on International Religious Freedom report for 2017 lists 71 countries that have blasphemy laws, in some cases punishable by death.

      That’s almost 40% of the UN, it being the biggest persecutor in the climate space.

      60

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Now apparently climate deniers are “predatory” according to this news article.

        Is this defamation?

        How do they come to such a thought?

        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-17/climate-change-deniers-are-a-threat-to-our-children/11518138

        “In this age of rapidly melting glaciers, terrifying megafires and ever more puissant hurricanes, of acidifying and rising oceans, it is hard to believe that any further prod to climate action is needed.

        “But the reality is that we continue to live in a business-as-usual world. Our media is filled with enthusiastic announcements about new fossil fuel projects, or the unveiling of the latest fossil-fuelled supercar, as if there’s no relationship between such things and climate change.
        In Australia, the disconnect among our political leaders on the deadly nature of fossil fuels is particularly breathtaking.

        “Prime Minister Scott Morrison continues to sing the praises of coal, while members of the government call for subsidies for coal-fired power plants. A few days ago, Energy and Emissions Reduction Minister Angus Taylor urged that the nation’s old and polluting coal-fired power plants be allowed to run “at full tilt”.

        “In the past, many of us have tolerated such pronouncements as the utterings of idiots — in the true, original Greek meaning of the word as one interested only in their own business.

        “But the climate crisis has now grown so severe that the actions of the denialists have turned predatory: they are now an immediate threat to our children.

        “A ‘colossal failure’ of climate activism

        “Each year the situation becomes more critical. In 2018, global emissions of greenhouse gases rose by 1.7 per cent while the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere jumped by 3.5 parts per million — the largest ever observed increase.

        “No climate report or warning, no political agreement nor technological innovation has altered the ever-upward trajectory of the pollution. This simple fact forces me to look back on my 20 years of climate activism as a colossal failure.

        40

  • #
    pat

    14 Sept: LA Times: SUVs have made a startling rise in Germany. Now comes the backlash
    By Erik Kirschbaum
    BERLIN: But over the last five years, German sales of Gelandewagen, as SUVs are also known here, have doubled, last year topping 1 million, or nearly a third of all new vehicle purchases…
    Luxury models have become a favorite target of anarchists, who have burned more than 300 parked vehicles this year in Berlin.

    Tensions boiled over this month when a Porsche Macan jumped a curb in central Berlin and plowed into a crowd of pedestrians, killing four people, including a 3-year-old boy and his grandmother.
    Never mind the news reports — unconfirmed by police — that the 42-year-old driver may have suffered an epileptic seizure or that even a compact car could have also been deadly…

    Politicians from the Greens party weighed in with calls to ban or limit SUVs in cities…
    To enact such changes, the Greens would have to wait until at least the 2021 election and team up with other leftist parties that have also advocated for limits on SUVs in cities…

    SUVs once faced a similar backlash in the U.S., but the revolt died out, and last year they accounted for about 48% of the 17 million new car sales there…
    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-09-13/suvs-have-made-a-startling-rise-in-germany-now-comes-the-backlash

    Updated 15 Sept: Bloomberg: Thousands Protest at Frankfurt Car Show on Emissions Concern
    By William Wilkes and Brian Parkin; With assistance by Oliver Sachgau

    The conflict between German environmentalists and automakers sits uneasily with the fact that around 5% of Germany’s economic output depends on car companies. Around 820,000 people are employed in the production of cars or automotive parts, according to the VDA carmakers’ association.
    “We would do well as a society to not demonize one of Germany’s leading industries,” Axel Schmidt, head of automotive research at consulting firm Accenture, said in an interview…

    Some protesters in Frankfurt on Saturday called for the German government to go further and ban all cars from city centers. They’d also like Germany to invest billions of euros in its rail network and plot an eventual exit from the internal combustion engine, similar to the country’s decision to quit coal-fired power generation by 2038.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-14/thousands-protest-frankfurt-car-show-as-merkel-warns-of-crisis?srnd=markets-vp

    14 Sept: Phys.org: Protests against German car industry rev up in Frankfurt (Update)
    by Yann Schreiber (AFP)
    “The motor show represents the last century,” Christoph Bautz, director of Campact, one of the campaigning group’s behind the protest, told AFP.
    “We want the future to belong to the bus, the trains and to bicycles—we don’t want any more.”…
    ‘Climate killers’
    The combination of protests and civil disobedience aimed at Germany’s car industry shows the sector no longer enjoys the untouchable status it once held as a key driver in Europe’s biggest economy…
    When the Frankfurt car show opened to the press on Tuesday, Greenpeace activists inflated a giant black balloon outside, bearing the inscription CO2.
    Then on Thursday at the Volkswagen and BMW stands, protesters climbed on SUVs with signs bearing the slogan “Climate Killers” during a visit by German Chancellor Angela Merkel…
    The vision for many environmental activists is seeing German cities free of cars…
    On Thursday, Merkel said she would support the sector through “revolutions” in climate protection and digitalisation, but warned firms must develop new technologies and win back lost trust among the public.
    https://phys.org/news/2019-09-protests-german-car-industry-rev.html

    10 Sept: Breitbart: Climate Hysteria Is Destroying Germany’s Car Industry
    by James Delingpole
    “Germany is self destructing and it really couldn’t happen to a nicer country,” says the Global Warming Policy Foundation’s Benny Peiser, himself a German. Peiser was originally a member of Germany’s Green movement, before seeing the light…
    To make matters worse for the struggling Germany economy, a report by McKinsey warns that Energiewende is increasingly jeopardising Germany’s energy supply…
    The Germans have a word for the way some of us are feeling right now.
    Schadenfreude.
    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/09/10/delingpole-climate-hysteria-is-destroying-germanys-car-industry/

    120

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Did you ever stop for a moment and think about what these “SUVs” are replacing?

      All my life the driving thought in motor vehicle deisgn has been racing. Going fast and cornering hard without rolling over. When there are too few roads which are conducive to that type of driving anyway.

      The result of this is cars which show a distinct lack of utility. Cars which have all the engineering needed to carry six people safely in comfort but can’t comfortably seat five.

      The modern SUVs haven’t abandoned that problem, but at least they are recognising that we don’t all want to drive as if it was a race. It’s a step n the right drection.

      But there’s still a bigger problem. It would surely be difficult to devise a less efficient means of moving people than to put one person in a ton and a half of tin and send him/her down the road.

      163

      • #
        Chad

        It would surely be difficult to devise a less efficient means of moving people than to put one person in a ton and a half of tin and send him/her down the road.

        Think so ?
        You should see some of the busses running around sydney outside of peak hours.
        Try one person ( the driver). In 10 tons of metal .!

        280

        • #
          Latus Dextro

          Da Comrade, we’re working on that and have a diktat in place to address it: UN New Urban Agenda, Habitat III

          114. We will promote access for all to safe, age- and gender-responsive, affordable, accessible, and sustainable urban mobility and land and sea transport systems, enabling meaningful participation in social and economic activities in cities and human settlements, by integrating transport and mobility plans into overall urban and territorial plans and promoting a wide range of transport and mobility options, in particular through supporting:
          (a) a significant increase in accessible safe, efficient, affordable, and sustainable infrastructure for public transport as well as non-motorized options such as walking and cycling, prioritizing them over private motorized transportation;

          70

          • #
            bobl

            Let me translate that… We’ll force you to use unsafe public transport alongside every moronic, drug addicted, diseased and criminal human that ever lived so that we can ‘feel’ good about our moral superiority.

            Meanwhile as the murder, assault and communicable disease rates rise, we’ll tut-tut about your misfortune.

            People don’t avoid public transport for nothing, they avoid it because it’s inconvenient, unsafe, dirty, unhealthy and for the most part more expensive than driving.

            150

            • #
              Annie

              Or they avoid it because it is non-existent ( or nearly so) in places such as where we live.
              Oh, I forget…they want to herd us all into city tower blocks where we can all suffocate when the a/c is inoperative thanks to useless, unreliable ‘renewable’ (ha ha!) electricity.

              130

          • #
            Michael Spencer

            And that was extracted from George Orwell’s “1984″?

            It’s the sort of double-speak manifesto that fits into the pattern!

            10

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Gender responsive?

            Can housing now sense if youre a bloke or a woman and change colour or similar?

            You couldnt make this stuff up….

            20

      • #

        Efficiency is surely good, as long as it’s not at the expense of safety, capacity and horsepower, as in my V8 powered 4wd SUV, which I take to places that would turn a Prius into a twisted hunk of scrap metal.

        120

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          I took a Prius for a drive once. It was a beautiful car, and would be fun to drive. We had a Prado when we lived in the sticks. It, too, was a beautiful car to drive, not too bad on fuel. Our son has a CHR, a very interesting vehicle. 100kg heavier than the Corolla, 1.2 litre motor with turbo, and big wheels. A very nice car for two people, a bit claustrophobic in the back, drives and rides nicely, does 45 mpg when I drive it, on expensive petrol. The Corolla might do that on the same petrol, I only use unleaded for about 40 mpg.

          But if I was king, in the city I would promote the Smart for Two.

          Our daughter went to a wedding in India. Her report was wide roads, lots of small vehicles, hardly visible road rules and loud horns. Seems to get them around.

          51

          • #

            I’ve been over 200kph in many vehicles many times, yet the roads in India are scarier at any speed when you’re sharing those ‘wide’ roads with pedestrians, bicycles, motorcycles, mopeds, tut-tut’s and wandering cows across 4 lanes of traffic on a road striped for 2 lanes. Traffic deaths are so common, it’s almost considered a natural cause.

            BTW, if you put a ski rack on your Smart Car, make sure to carry red caution flags to put on the end of your skis.

            60

  • #
    James Murphy

    People like Adam Bandt can’t be reasoned with. They are essentially ignorant, uneducated, and unable to open their minds to new ideas. It’s a waste of time.

    The age of enlightenment did not progress by converting the zealots. So too, with the current state of affairs. The only problem is that the very people who enabled said age of enlightenment are seemingly missing in action. How does one combat this?

    430

    • #
      David Maddison

      In his essay ‘What Is Enlightenment?’ (1784) Immanuel Kant summed up the era’s motto with:

      ‘Dare to know! Have courage to use your own reason!’

      230

      • #
        • #
          David Maddison

          Kent’s essay starts:

          Enlightenment is man’s emergence from his self-imposed immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one’s understanding without guidance from another. This immaturity is self-imposed when its cause lies not in lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it without guidance from another. Sapere Aude! [dare to know] “Have courage to use your own understanding!”—that is the motto of enlightenment.

          Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why so great a proportion of men, long after nature has released them from alien guidance (naturaliter maiorennes), nonetheless gladly remain in lifelong immaturity, and why it is so easy for others to establish themselves as their guardians. It is so easy to be immature. If I have a book to serve as my understanding, a pastor to serve as my conscience, a physician to determine my diet for me, and so on, I need not exert myself at all. I need not think, if only I can pay: others will readily undertake the irksome work for me. The guardians who have so benevolently taken over the supervision of men have carefully seen to it that the far greatest part of them (including the entire fair sex) regard taking the step to maturity as very dangerous, not to mention difficult. Having first made their domestic livestock dumb, and having carefully made sure that these docile creatures will not take a single step without the go-cart to which they are harnessed, these guardians then show them the danger that threatens them, should they attempt to walk alone. Now this danger is not actually so great, for after falling a few times they would in the end certainly learn to walk; but an example of this kind makes men timid and usually frightens them out of all further attempts.

          180

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            Knowledge… courage… reason…
            Vic Uni in Wellington has thrown all three out the window into the skip-bin / trash-heap of history… smash!

            “Victoria University in Wellington has announced a plan to achieve zero carbon emissions by 2030. It is the first university in New Zealand to release a comprehensive plan aiming for zero net carbon dioxide emissions”. Hahaha hahaha ha! They’re mad.

            https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/398815/victoria-university-aims-to-become-lab-for-climate-change-action

            “The university wants to become a living lab for climate change action in Wellington. ‘We hope to share our zero-carbon journey and help New Zealand achieve its zero carbon aspirations,’ Professor Guilford said”.

            100% completely cuckoo kaka mad. RNZ is one of “240 media organisations from around the world in the Covering Climate Now (CCN) initiative” crock-fest mind-fork which is “the UN Climate Action Summit on 23 September 2019″ – the day/night of the equinoxes. Is this where we finally get to gird one’s loins

            170

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              I use my own reasoning and get told I’m an “anarchist”…..in that I dare to question “conventional wisdom”.

              Try confronting and giving a bit shove to any “established” pool of knowledge and find out how quickly they would burn you at the stake for “heresy” if they could….

              130

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                That’s why i went to flat earth climate models. Dome all warming makes more sense. The ancients were far in advance and even discovered greenhouses/domes. All we had to make sure we did not do in those days was to not go over the edge.

                60

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                Stay away from the edge Steve :) Flat earth wisdom.

                80

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                Stay away from the climate edge Steve lest you go into the nether regions over the edge into climatic free fall!!

                60

            • #
              sophocles

              To: Greg in NZ @ 3.1.1.1.1:

              There’s a group of `Honourables’ (MPs) touring the country (last seen in Tauranga) listening to public submissions on a Zero-Carbon Act. The madness has arrived.

              120

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Well yes…the final push before the nasty stuff really starts, is here…..

                Hitler begore he could start his evil madness, passed the Enabling laws…..

                90

            • #
              Latus Dextro

              With a student population of 22,000 with some 3,700 from more than 110 countries what is, I wonder, the “carbon” off set for the student population, their land usage and influence upon atmospheric composition?
              Average human being (70kg) contains 18% carbon (12.6kg), plus, each student exhales around 500kg CO2 or 187.5kg carbon annually. Before they arrive, drive, fly, eat, phart, or use electricity or engage in couch burning, they present a static burden of about 4400 tons of carbon annually, say at $5 a ton, $22,000 … a trivial amount of money for a University, but priceless for virtue signalling.

              70

            • #
              Terry

              I wonder if these pious institutions might turn their attention to achieving zero-taxpayer funding by ?

              60

            • #
              Just Thinkin'

              We should help them early by checking out their use of ANY form of transport
              that requires carbon based fuel..

              This would include electric vehicles…

              And ANYTHING that has been MADE using carbon based fuels…

              This should also include the buildings they are working in…

              Let them wriggle out of that.

              20

          • #
            Lionell Griffith

            “But a full-blown Kantian would have to say that science comes to our rescue only as far as the phenomenal world is concerned: we cannot know whether or not science can give us a reliable picture of the noumenal world.”

            Meaning that we cannot know that we know. What then is knowledge to Kant? Isn’t it truly “filled with sound an fury signifying nothing”? If you use Kant as your guide, it is nothing but a succession of train wrecks leading nowhere but death. See the 20 century for far too many cases in point. Sadly, we are still trying to make Kant’s madness work and it will lead to exactly the same place.

            80

            • #
              Ted O'Brien.

              Just look at all the fun I missed out on by going farming for 70 to 100 hours a week!

              I know what I know. And I know what I don’t know. And I have forgotten too much of what I used to know.

              70

    • #
      Yonniestone

      I think Bandt has been reading up on Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals,

      RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”

      Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)

      160

    • #
      Robdel

      I have found it a waste of time to try to argue with fullblown greenies. Logic never comes into the argument. So I just avoid conversing on the topic of cc with them.

      80

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    The sentence with everything.

    “Some things never change and good but weak people fall for these stone-age tricks every time”.

    You can’t really blame the general public: they trust government to do the right thing, but sadly you can trust some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

    The average person is swimming in a sea of misdirection, lies, self interest graft that is hidden behind the wall of public media ignorance and group think.

    We need a commission to investigate and prosecute bad government and those supporting and authorising it.

    Think of the jobs that would be created to staff all of the new jails needed to house the corrupt ones!

    KK

    271

    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      The intellectual con game predates the stone age and began with the first witch doctor. It intensified with the tribal chief joining forces with the witch doctor to keep the ignorant members of the tribe in line.

      To this day, the plot has not changed. Only the names and titles of the guilty have been changed to protect the guilty. Truly, the more things change the more they stay the same. Will we ever learn?

      150

  • #
    PeterS

    It’s impossible to reason with the left. They are devoid of any good logic. Perhaps the elite themselves are starting to wake up to that fact. See Will the Elite Wake Up in Time & Confront The Left Climate Fear Campaigns?

    Time is running short. I see a high risk of a perfect storm coming that could make the recent GFC look like a picnic. It can only be avoided if our leaders, especially PM Morrison stopped kowtowing to the left and climate change alarmists and started getting back to proper economic management, assuming it’s not already too late. First order of business Morrison should have carried out as to have begun exiting proceedings from the Paris Agreement. He should have done so the first day he was re-elected. Extremely poor show on his part for not doing so. Very disappointing really.

    350

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      A lot of the push that creates conformity with the new world order is coming from jobs.
      “Difficult” read competent people are being retrenched and replaced with confirmists.

      This is spooky and doesn’t augur well for our future.

      KK

      220

      • #
        PeterS

        Indeed. Big business these days prefer m00r0ns that can be easily re-programmed and replace people with critical thinking skills who expose what’s wrong with the organisation’s policies, not to mention maintain a moral compass for the company. I bet companies these can’t wait for robots to take over the jobs of the masses. It will be a rat race of the worst kind.

        200

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Irs called AI. But one of the reasons for pushing stuff out to the cloud is so AI can crawl all over it so you can be teacked and predicted as to your behaviour, buying habits, life and your beliefs. All essential to bring in chinese style big bruvver…..oh and its easy for the spooks to “own” you too….dont do or say anything wrong, Comrade….

          10

      • #
        sophocles

        KK:
        we’re in a recession so expensive people are being retrenched and replaced by cheaper younger/less competent ones.

        130

  • #
    John

    Party leader Richard Di Natale will move a motion on Monday noting that the upper house accepts humans first landed on the moon on July 20, 1969, and that the earth is round. The motio

    More stupid stunts from the Greens.

    I used to vote Green years ago. Have they always been like this and I simply didn’t realise? Or are they getting worse?

    330

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Maybe you were imagining what the greens should have been.
      Putting your own interpretation on it.
      Then reality bites.

      270

    • #
      Rod

      I can’t believe I’m a different person that voted green about 20 years ago… maybe I am… or maybe the Greens have just gone total wacko enough for me to notice

      280

      • #
        RicDre

        “I can’t believe I’m a different person that voted green about 20 years ago … or maybe the Greens have just gone total wacko enough for me to notice”

        None of us are the same people we were 20 years ago, we are changed by the things we experience during our lifetimes. This is also true of institutions.

        When most of these “Green” institutions were formed, they really were trying to make the world a better place and in many ways they succeeded as many of the steps that were taken to clean up the environment came about from the work of these institutions.

        As the “Green” institutions had success in achieving their goals, they got bigger and more powerful. Eventually their size and power caused them to be more concerned with perpetuating there own existence than with doing something constructive, a stark demonstration of the old saying that “power corrupts”.

        The bottom line is that the “Greens” went through the same sad evolution that most small organizations go through if they get big enough that the power they wield causes them to lose sight of why they were formed in the first place.

        The “Greens” are not unique it that respect, you see the same pattern in Labor Unions, other NGOs, Government Regulators and in Government itself.

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      nb

      I say worse. The whole of the left appears to have dropped its facade of reasonableness over the last few years, in particular since Trump was elected. The left has revealed itself for what it always has been – angry, dangerous people, who channel their anger into an ideology that destroys economies and lives without conscience.

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      • #
        Yonniestone

        The lefts mask is slipping, they have only been biding their time when they realised that last century’s habit of rolling tanks into a city wasn’t a popular long term plan where revolutions are concerned, this has been a long game and up to now an extremely successful one.

        You are correct they are very dangerous people and capable ones at that, looking at Vicpol members armed to hilt and conditioned to follow Spring Street’s directives instead of the law’s you can easily see how people can be coerced into terrible acts, this and the continual erosion of due process through a legal system that’s been filled with left wing magistrates.

        250

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          It was always thus.

          The Socialist International has its link into the UN.

          https://www.socialistinternational.org/about-us/

          The Fabian Society works hand in glove (iron hand in velvet glove) with the Socialist International and the UN, as does the Australian Fabians.

          If you check the Fabian website you’ll quickly see the linkages and supporters that it has generated:

          https://fabians.org.uk/about-us/partnerships/

          The Green movement has its linkages to each of these organizations.

          The strategy is to infiltrate, subvert and remove opposition. Gramsci wrote books on it. Rudi Dutschke tested and perfected it. The labor Party, the Greens and the Communists are following it to the “T”.

          The Centre right parties are already infiltrated – although with the ouster of Turnbull, Pyne and Bishop (Julie) they’ve had a bit of a set-back recently.

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          The Nuremberg Defence….

          “We were only following orders….”

          It can happen again.

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Its Galileo (the skeptic) vs the Church (of climate change) all over again.

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      To John and Rod at least you realised how bad they really are but if you really want some insight read this link .

      https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2011/01-02/the-greens-agenda-in-their-own-words/

      The Greens are a bunch of sickos and anyone voting for them after reading how depraved they really are are just as sick in my opinion .

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The left has torn down socities values and religion, and replaced it with evil.

        When evil reigns, moral depravity is the norm.

        As a Christian ( which surely puts me on the endangered list ) I can clearly see evil influence in society.

        In ancient times, in ignorance, people sacrificed thier children in the fire to Moloch, the Old Testament has verses specifically firbidding all forms of evil acts. Humans dont change, we kid ourselves were are more civilised now, but are always in need of civilising and proper moral influence.

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        • #
          Latus Dextro

          …but are always in need of civilising and proper moral influence.

          Indeed, every child and every generation have to emerge from their social cave to eventually become civilised, to learn to fully embrace the hard and soft virtues (The Two Virtue Types – The War on Truth).
          Regrettably, the teaching professions and educational institutions surrendered their centuries of wisdom and knowledge, their very professional ownership and the stewardship of education sometime ago to politicians, the Left and Uncle Tom Cobbly ‘n all. They surrendered ironically, in an entirely progressive manner, incremental bowing degradation to every faux-advance and fashionable experiment that arose, including it seems the current though waning preoccupation with political correctness, neo-Marxist identitarianism and gender fluidity.

          40

  • #
    Terry

    The Green Fascists are becoming increasingly dangerous.

    Will Australia fight for its Freedom?

    250

    • #
      PeterS

      Only time will tell. I fear most Australians are still too busy, too dumb, and/or too stupid to even care let alone know what’s going on around them. The process of dismantling our economic fabric is so slow it’s barely noticeable to most. Of course when things abruptly come to end when the music stops, reality will bite and I suspect Australians will right back but it will not be a pretty site.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Been there tried that got tired of being used as MSM fodder, when the majority of Australians agree with your patriotic stance but never turn up to protest something is wrong.

      150

    • #
      Serp

      “Will Australia fight for its Freedom?” In a word, no.

      Australia is being too rapidly diluted by immigration at a current rate of a million every four years.

      60

  • #
    StephenP

    They keep reducing the time we have left to ‘save the world’.
    First 30 years, then 12, then 10, now down to 18 months.
    It is more likely that we have 18 months to stop stupid measures being enacted which would really wreck the world economy.

    You just have to see the effect of the attack on Aramco to see the effect of destabilising energy production.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-49703143

    The BBC is also saturating the news programme with Sir David King’s latest pronouncements.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49689018

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  • #
    Zane

    Too many vested interests are cashing in on the climate scam.

    170

  • #
    nb

    ‘Greens demand democracy be saved. Vote Green or go to jail.’
    It’s for the little children’s sake.

    170

  • #
    nb

    Oh, and the Greens themselves have changed. They were taken over by communists during the 1990s.

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  • #
    theRealUniverse

    So how many in the Senate will actually vote for this bill? If anything happens then will be interesting to count the numbers. Brandt is a fool and disillusioned idiot full of his own bovine excrement.

    170

  • #
    Latus Dextro

    The UN eco-Marxist globalista have gone full noise. No question. Everything, in spite of all their decades long vile efforts, their relentless Alinskyesque ploys, their language hammering, their ad hominems and straw men, their fascist authoritarianism, their onslaught of free speech, their demonisation and isolation, all of their wantonly destructive, prosperity robbing, divestment bollox, hope depriving, rainbow embracing, immoral, fluid gender inanity, for all that infinite Green bile, their very existence is tenuous, and it lies in the balance, on the very edge. People are slowly awakening to the municipal and national hijacking, their loss of self-determination, liberty and prosperity

    Why? Simple. The eco-Marxist Left deny reality, they deny climate, weather and most of all, human nature, the human spirit and the promise of a better hope filled future. They possess only one vicious, authoritarian answer: no, and they stand no disagreement.
    Their unintelligent nihilism lies at the heart of their fundamental undoing. Venezuela is their mirror, to be shortly joined by an imploding, stagnating EU with Germany and France experiencing the equivalent of a national myocardial infarction that will serve to rebirth flourishing nation states. Separate people from their cultures, customs and traditions in a meaningless, consumer, corporatist, rights fuelled borderless world filled with micro-identitarian political correctness and see people flee. Failing Australia and New Zealand that have drifted so far with the globalist Left, who have surrendered the right of free speech, free assembly and the right to listen, who have surrendered safe passage through areas designated as ‘religious’ strongholds, and accepted divided, excluded and unequal societies based on ethno-nationalism, the future could not look more bleak. But bleak futures spawn big changes, eventually.

    POTUS DJT second term, an imminent no deal Brexit and the ensuing disintegration of the EU, the rise of a retraditionalising Brazil under popular nationalism (see this outstanding interview, ‘The Brazilian Renewal: A Conversation with Foreign Minister Ernesto Araujo’ to gain an insight into how generations of destructive eco-Marxist Left fail), the dawn of the Solar Minimum, the evidence of a cooling World, the loss by Mann of his ridiculous court battles (Ball & eventually, in time, Steyn), the rejection of regressive Leftist policies of open borders and the identitarian language of the Left, that divisive, exclusive and unequal nonsense that is the lingua franca of the self-appointed cultural elite.

    In truth, less and less people are being suckered. More and more are awakening, if only by a vague sensory level of discomfort.
    Remember, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time.
    ‘Shut up’ doesn’t cut it, not even remotely. We have been insulted and denigrated for too long to be concerned by the vapid epithets of a morally inferior Left, preoccupied as it is with infanticide, assisted suicide, virtue Green signalling and free everything at the price of your soul.

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    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Well, now that you put it like that, here, ✓, have another up-thumb tick from me.

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    • #
      Latus Dextro

      In truth, less and less people are being suckered. More and more are awakening, if only by a vague sensory level of discomfort.

      GWPF Press Release 16/09/19
      New Survey: Half Of Britons (And Most Europeans) Are Climate Sceptics

      London, 16 September: An international opinion poll published today reveals that half of the UK population and most European citizens are sceptical about the conventional climate alarm.
      Despite blanket coverage of the antics of Greta Thunberg and Extinction Rebellion on the BBC and elsewhere in the media, just 51% of Britons think that mankind is the main cause of climate change.
      And as the poll reveals, a majority of Europeans, including two thirds of Scandinavians, are dissenters from the climate “consensus”.

      According to GWPF director, Dr Benny Peiser, the general public is hard to fool:

      “The public can tell when they are on the receiving end of a hard sell. The more climate alarmists scream about emergencies, the more the mainstream media shut down any dissent, the less convinced the man in street will be.”

      And although the results have been met with incredulity, according to Dr Peiser, they merely confirm earlier polls, like the British Social Attitudes Survey, which also found that climate scepticism was thriving among the public.

      As Dr Peiser explains:

      “According to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) Britons are actually becoming happier and wealthier. When they are being told that there is a climate emergency, that they must tighten their belts and that nobody seriously disagrees, people naturally assume that they are being conned.”

      Unsurprisingly, at the actual poll site, YouGov, the data is spun the opposite way:
      International poll: most expect to feel impact of climate change, many think it will make us extinct

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Now add in massive influx of many from a completely different culture and it becomes explosive….by design….

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  • #
    Maptram

    The Greens and the like would tell us it’s OK for kids to have a day off school to attend an Extinction Rebellion protest or something similar. The Greens would also believe that all the kids who take the day off school will be at the protest. Kids are probably smarter than the Greens.

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  • #
    pat

    read for the full insanity. that Forbes would publish it, says a lot about CAGW being all about the money:

    15 Sept: Forbes: Eight More Effects of Climate Change: Some Surprising, Some Fatal
    by Jeff McMahon, Green Tech (bio: I also teach journalism, argument and scientific writing at the University of Chicago)
    Climate change will take its toll across the economy, in some unexpected places, a panel of experts told members of Congress last week.
    Unmitigated climate change has already cost the U.S. economy $1 trillion, said economist Marshall Burke, an assistant professor of earth system science at Stanford University, and that cost will rise to $5 trillion by 2050…

    According mostly to Burke, but also other experts who testified before the committee Sept. 11, those impacts include:
    1 Lost Productivity
    2 Cognitive Decline
    3 Violent Crime
    4 Suicide
    5 Civil Unrest
    6 Immigration
    7 Inequality
    8 Insurance Collapse…
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2019/09/15/eight-more-surprising-and-sometimes-fatal-effects-of-climate-change/#42aefef34751

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    • #
      Terry

      “I also teach journalism, argument and scientific writing”

      Isn’t this the most damaging effect of “Climate Change™”?

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    • #
      RicDre

      I agree that that the “Climate Change” movement is causing:

      #1 Lost Productivity: From children being released from school and employees released from work to be allowed to go to “Climate Change” protests
      #2 Cognitive Decline: i.e All of those professors and activists that have become emotionally unbalanced by the “Climate Change” movement
      #3 Crime: Extinction Rebellion
      #4 Suicide: see #2
      #5 Civil Unrest: see #3
      #6 Uncontrolled Immigration: The inevitable outcome of the left’s open borders policy
      #7 Inequality: One of the inevitable outcomes of the left reaching their “Socialist Utopia”
      #8 Insurance Collapse: see #3, #6 & #7

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  • #
    joseph

    I’ve been lumped in with conspiracy theorists, even fairly recently.

    If we’re dealing with matters that require explanations that involve physical phenomena, then the appropriate scientific investigations are brought to bear. If the procedures followed are of a high standard, and the data are made available, we stand a chance of getting to the truth of the matter. Sometimes, even if we haven’t been able to explain what’s taken place, in every detail, we are at least able to discard a hypothesis or two that may have been, up to that time, controlling the discussion, and are now revealed as having not been the cause of what has been observed.

    Then we can proceed to the next step.

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  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Mr Bandt criticised the government’s pollution reduction commitments, saying the world was on track to heat up by 3.5 to 4 degrees.

    “(That) will lead to global warming that is a death sentence for billions of people on that planet.”

    ——

    He is referring to earth and its a lie that this planet will heat by 3.5 to 4 degrees because of industrial CO2.

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    • #
      pat

      our politics could be worse!

      14 Sept: Guardian: Lib Dems set out radical agenda for tackling climate emergency
      Exclusive: Citizens’ assemblies and a Green Investment Bank among key planks of election bid
      by Fiona Harvey
      Citizens’ assemblies will decide what action should be taken on the climate crisis, the Treasury’s ability to stymie green measures will be neutralised and the Green Investment Bank will be revived under proposals set to be key planks of the Liberal Democrats’ general election bid.
      Along with sweeping reform of Whitehall, including bringing back a department of climate change, local government would be given new powers to cut emissions, there would be a moratorium on airport expansion and an end to fracking, and the UK would achieve net-zero carbon status by 2045 – five years sooner than the current government goal.

      “Moving to net-zero is a complete game-changer,” Wera Hobhouse, the Lib Dem spokesperson for the environment and climate change, told the Guardian…
      “Citizens’ assemblies would not replace politicians’ decision-making, but would inform the options,” said Hobhouse. “We need decisive action – the government is not doing anything, they are dithering.”

      The Green Investment Bank, created under the coalition government, was sold off under George Osborne. Under a Lib Dem government, a replacement would be set up with public money, and have the powers to borrow money from the private sector…READ ON
      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/14/lib-dems-set-out-radical-agenda-for-tackling-climate-emergency

      Aviva – think Insurance/Pensions:

      15 Sept: UK Times: Fund goes green to back climate action
      The Aviva Investors Climate Transition European Equity fund will invest in companies with low-carbon business models or offering goods or services that help the environment.
      Manager Françoise Cespedes said the fund would help “avoid the dramatic consequences of unaddressed climate change”. The strategy is to buy and hold long-term…

      12 Sept: CityWire: Aviva Investors launches energy transition fund
      By Margaryta Kirakosian, Chris Sloley
      Aviva Investors has launched a new fund that will focus on the transition to a low-carbon economy, Citywire Selector can report.
      The Aviva Investors Climate Transition European Equity fund already has a €100 million seed investment from Aviva France.
      The new strategy will be managed by Francoise Cespedes, who will work with Rick Stathers, a senior global responsible investment analyst and climate change specialist…

      ???It will also allocate to companies aligning their business models with a warmer, low-carbon world…READ ON
      https://citywireselector.com/news/aviva-investors-launches-energy-transition-fund/a1267615

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      • #
        RicDre

        “Exclusive: Citizens’ assemblies and a Green Investment Bank among key planks of election bid”

        I believe the French Revolution had “Citizens’ assemblies” and look how well that turned out. (/sarc)

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    A Ghandi quote springs to mind.

    CO2 is going into the Atmosphere, and has add 100 ppm since the 1900′s, and the rest you all deny
    Also – Coal mining has killed 6 miners this year alone – happy for that to continue, while you run your air con for longer and longer.
    Also – Pollution from coal in both the Hunter and Latrobe is shortening and emiserating the lives of those who live there.
    Also – You are advised not to eat more than 2 Lake Macquarie fish a week (that pollution) it gets everywhere don’t you know.

    So sit next to your air con, eat your toxic fish, and dream about the sacrifice those miners made for you.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “Pollution from coal in both the Hunter and Latrobe is shortening and emiserating the lives of those who live there.”

      Yet another LIE !!!!


      “You are advised not to eat more than 2 Lake Macquarie fish a week (that pollution) it gets everywhere don’t you know.”

      Pasminco.

      —- zero -evidence of and danger from CO2 so you now try other pathetic tactic.

      How many people’s lives has coal powered saved !

      Everyone in every modern COAL-BUILT country is alive today BECAUSE OF COAL.

      Society today was BUILT BY COAL

      Society today is powered BY COAL.

      Society to day is TOTALLY RELIANT ON COAL and other fossil fuels.

      If you don’t want to be part of society.. please do everyone a favour and remove yourself from it.

      “CO2 is going into the Atmosphere, and has add 100 ppm since the 1900′s”

      Yes, and the world’s biosphere IS LUVING IT. !!

      And as you continue to point out, PF, there is no evidence of any warming by atmospheric CO2.

      The NET BENEFIT of coal to the people of this world, and to plant life and hence all life….

      is a MASSIVE HUGE PLUS !!

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    • #
      AndyG55

      And PF is TOTALLY RELIANT on coal fired electricity for his childish AGW trolling,

      … and on petroleum for supplying the material to build his computer.

      And on coal for the building he is in. Without coal, that building would not exist.

      Probably surrounded by materials manufactured using coal ash as well.

      HYPOCRITE !!!

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      More people died from bee stings , dodgy doctors and car crashes poiter what’s your point .

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      Any idea Poiter of how much of that 100ppm is because of human activity ?

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        It’s all human

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        • #
          Graeme#4

          Rubbish! Of a total of 217 Pg C/yr, fossil fuel combustion is 6 and land use/deforestation 0.9. So fossil fuel combustion is 2.76% of the total and land use 0.41%, making a total of only 3.18%. The rest is from oceans (41%), soil respiration (28%) and plant respiration (28%). Volcanoes, which I’m darn sure are not caused by humans, contribute only 0.05%.
          I can further subdivide the human contribution, but surely you can see that yet again, you’re wrong.

          150

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            and your source is? or is it some sort of received wisdom /sacr pff

            315

            • #
              AndyG55

              Poor PF..

              He KNOWS his posts are bordering on the insane

              He KNOWS his posts are of great AMUSEMENT and ASSISTANCE to us realists

              His DESPERATION is bordering on lunacy ! :-)

              Keep going please PF.

              Keep PROVING that CO2 is TOTALLY BENEFICIAL to all life on Earth.

              100

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Bordering????

                It jumped the fence a while back and you can tell it hasn’t eaten in a few days so don’t get too close.

                110

            • #
              Graeme#4

              Oh for gawd’s sake. I quoted actual emission values PF, do you believe I dreamed them up? The information comes from the US government EPA “Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions”, the organisation that believes strongly in AGW. Surely you aren’t going to dispute their figures?

              20

        • #
          AndyG55

          TOTAL IGNORANCE from PF , yet again

          Seems you think none comes from the warming of oceans by the SUN.

          Seems you think NATURAL warming has released more CO2 from the land.

          In total disagreement with your AGW priests, they will not be happy !

          And you KNOW it doesn’t cause any warming, so what’s the harm

          ONLY BENEFICIAL, PF

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Freaking great point Robert, and how many gun deaths are there worldwide?

        114

        • #
          AndyG55

          PF takes yet another faceplant

          The simple things in life are FAR MORE DANGEROUS than COAL mining

          And of course he KNOWS that COAL is what holds the whole of civilised society together.

          He KNOWS he could not live without its BENEFICIAL ENERGY and its BENEFICIAL life-giving release of CO2.

          And these FACTS burn his poor little mind. :-)

          130

        • #
          robert rosicka

          How many gun deaths ? Without looking I’d say a lot less than those who died from malaria because they couldn’t access DDT .

          130

    • #
      Terry

      https://waqi.info/#/c/-6.942/130.876/2.7z

      Nope. Seems we’re still doing fine. Thanks.

      150

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Fitzroy, you are pathetic.

      150

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        as opposed to you? I am happy to have you say that, as you have never ever said anything remotely interesting

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        • #
          AndyG55

          You poor little over-hype child-troll, you have absolutely NOTHING in the way of anything relevant to say whatsoever.

          Every post displays your total and abject ignorance about basically everything.

          You are one of our best assets because of your gross incompetence at even the most basic understanding of science, maths or anything related to actual reality.

          People look at your posts and either cringe at your base-level stupidity, or keel over with laughter at their brain-washed emptymess.

          140

    • #
      Serp

      This is blatant cheap trolling Peter Fitzroy.

      Next you’ll be extolling the virtues of Bandt’s private members bill, his preposterous Coal Criminalization Bill, which specified six months gaol for those convicted of burning coal.

      Maybe you can explain his (and your) obsession with coal, given the combustion of any organic compound whatsoever produces carbon dioxide, and whether the next phase of his (and your?) program will turn attention to lesser crimes, even down to the striking of matches.

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      • #
        robert rosicka

        Fitz is a card carrying member of
        Greenpiss
        Greens
        Guardian
        Getup
        WWF and probably the Fabian society to name but a few far left groups that he likes in his faceache page .
        The force is strong in this one .

        150

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Those 6 deaths not on your conscience then

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        • #
          Annie

          Are the deaths of those who have been killed while working on windmills on your conscience then Peter F?
          Not to mention all the birds and bats mangled by them.

          210

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            this year = how many?

            015

          • #
            Bobl

            Oh, and the pink batts deaths plus solar electrocutions and fires?

            140

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              and they happened this year?

              114

              • #
                Bobl

                So the people who died on the alter of global warming in the past don’t matter, all the grannies dying from the cold, not able to heat their houses. The poor black people forced to breathe fumes and die from dung fires. The cancer and HIV patients who die waiting for a cure not coming because their government is spending the research money on windmills. The indigenous people killed or forced off their land to make way for global warming offset forests in Africa. The people who died of hunger because their food aid corn was instead used to make ethanol. All these people don’t matter to you because it wasn’t yesterday Peter?

                Well they matter to me, all of them hurt , not due to global warming but to the heartless , pointless and totally useless responses to what amounts to science about as thin as astrology.

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              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Patricia….imagine one of your kids is sick with massive asthma attack…emergency trip to the ER….power fails …again….no ventilators…no aircon….now what?

                Now australia is like the marxist utopia of Zombie-babwe ……

                Happy?

                20

        • #
          AndyG55

          PF DOESN’T CARE about all the thousands of lives SAVED because of RELIABLE base-load power to hospitals.

          One of those 6 deaths was a car accident when someone drove under a coal lorry

          Two were heart attacks. What were the other 3?

          Far more people in Australia get killed as pedestrians than actually die by coal mining.

          Far more get killed bushwalking or falling of cliffs

          Mining is actually incredibly safe nowadays.

          And of course COAL and other fossil fuels provides for basically everything that keeps the modern world ALIVE and FUCNTIONING.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Just in case you are unsure about CO2 and climate,
        From the archives (as in 10 seconds ago), Jo in 2012, appeared in the ABC Television documentary I Can Change Your Mind About… Climate with her partner David Evans, in discussion with Nick Minchin and Anna Rose, in which she stated that:

        …carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas and that adding more to it will warm the planet, yes, absolutely, that’s all well proven solid science known for years, yes. I have no disagreement with any of that. (My bold)

        So

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas and that adding more to it will warm the planet,”

          And yet you can produce NO EVIDENCE.. just regurgitated rhetoric.

          So sad.

          110

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      In 2012, the Television documentary I Can Change Your Mind About

      …carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas and that adding more to it will warm the planet, yes, absolutely, that’s all well proven solid science known for years, yes. I have no disagreement with any of that.

      Guess who?

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        JoNova – wiki

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        • #
          robert rosicka

          Jo Nova – Wiki , no smoking gun putz and if you keep searching you’ll find that the host is pretty much the same as many if not the majority here .
          We once believed the hype but at some stage heard a claim we knew to be wrong and after checking found that the whole CAGW meme is nothing more than a religion built by faith and devoid of science .
          There is no proof that CO2 will heat the planet and change the climate , you have no evidence and no one else does either its just an unproven theory .

          150

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            it is still there, rave all you want

            215

            • #
              robert rosicka

              Difference between you and us is we are capable of thinking for ourselves and not indoctrinated into a cult .

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Great comeback!

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              • #
                AndyG55

                Comeback

                Still waiting for you to come back with empirical evidence for warming by atmospheric CO2

                Or you could tell us all about the scientifically provable ways in which humans have changed the climate in the last 40 years

                Why do you keep avoiding these questions?

                It is that you KNOW you cannot answer them. ! ;-)

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            • #
              el gordo

              We had this discussion some time ago, Jo Nova is a lukewarmer like Judith Curry and Anthony Watts. In my estimation the hiatus in temperature for a couple of decades proves beyond reasonable doubt that CO2 does no cause global warming.

              ENSO is the temperature control knob.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        “carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas and that adding more to it will warm the planet”

        And yet you KEEP PROVING that there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE for that statement

        You really are our greatest asset, PF

        Please keep dodging and weaving

        Please tell us all how the global climate has changed in the last 40 years attributable to humans

        With EVIDENCE of course. :-)

        We are all waiting. :-)

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      • #
        Bobl

        Actually you are surmising that. In a test tube CO2 can reradiate IR but that’s a closed system. When you have an open system free to conduct and convect freely and a bio system fed by CO2 that absorbs inbound radiant energy , then in fact all bets are off as to the total effect of CO2 after all alternate modes of energy shedding are applied.

        Indeed, in theory if energy transport is not the limiting factor then more CO2 will radiate more IR to space IE the effect should be nett cooling. The models only get warming by supposing that as the troposphere warms the stratosphere cools, problem is that this would induce increased convection. The idea that the temperature gradient will steepen without increasing outgoing heat transport is thermodynamically impossible

        Your problem is that you won’t accept that physical laws can’t be ignored by the climate modellers the way they have.

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          So you have an experiment which backs up the physics
          you have an increase in CO2
          yet you can not accept that A+B = C

          Dumb

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            robert rosicka

            Dear lord you’ve hit peak stupidity and now you’re on a cherry picker .

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            Bobl

            It’s just math and a bit of junior high science, if I have no limit on energy supply and X kg CO2 emits Y kJ then X plus deltaX kg CO2 emits Y plus delta Y energy. If more CO2 emits more energy in all directions (which is what YOU claim) and 50% goes to space then deltaY / 2 extra energy goes to space and the effect is nett cooling. Has to be because no new energy is created, and outgoing energy is increased by deltaY/2.

            This is the absurdity of YOUR claim, not mine, that somehow more CO2 can emit more heat back to the ground without emitting more heat to space. Not only that, but we should freeze our grannies in winter and withhold energy and food aid (largely from from poor black people) in order to somehow guard against an Armageddon that literally can’t happen.

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              Gee Aye

              Let me get this straight. In the absence of CO2 all the IR will go to space. But with CO2 present some gets stopped along the way before being re-emitted. You say that because some of this IR goes to space there is net cooling compared with all of it going straight to space?

              I’m with you man. Shine on.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                No, just totally lacking in comprehension.

                The GA way.

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              • #
                bobl

                No Gee Aye, you are assuming the only energy transport from the surface to the emission point is IR, but that isn’t remotely true.

                The claim is that it’s mainly GHG IR photon emissions that shed heat from the planet (it’s not but let’s say it is), more GHG means more photons. The energy gets there lots of ways,IR, Conduction, Convection, Latent heat…

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              • #
                Gee Aye

                same as what I wrote mgm.

                Also, you’ve inserted a directional bias in the emission direction, a phenomenon that has yet to be observed.

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            • #
              el gordo

              During the Holocene Climate Optimum we can say that CO2 levels were low because the carbon sinks were in overdrive. CO2 continued to increase because of the time lag, even as the world cooled.

              I’m not happy with ice cores, would you have a stomata graph that I can get my teeth into?

              40

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            DS.

            A+B+D+E +F +G is not equal to C.

            You left out a few important factors relating to the environment in which the process is operating.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        “the Television documentary”

        PF’s idea of science.. lol !!

        So funny !!

        Do you read fantasy books as well, PF .. maybe Mills and Boon ???

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    • #
      Graeme#4

      Care to offer any documentary proof that lives are being impacted in Hunter and Latrobe valleys Peter? This is a serious accusation, so I presume you have some valid proof that what you are saying is the truth. Please enlighten us.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        you have the internet, prove me wrong!

        017

        • #
          AndyG55

          Prove CO2 causes warming, PF

          You are being a GREAT HELP to the realist with your ineptitude

          Please keep skuttering around like a headless chook ! :-)

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        • #
          AndyG55

          You have been PROVEN WRONG on that point before , PF.

          The paper you showed us was a total mess of anti-science statistical malpractice.

          REAL DATA for REAL DOCTORS proved you wrong .

          But real data and facts are not your friend are they. :-)

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “you have the internet”

          You have the internet because of FOSSIL FUELS and COAL FIRED ELECTRICITY

          Does that fact hurt you so much ! ;-)

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          no proof then

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        • #
          beowulf

          Consider yourself proven wrong. Here it is . . . yet again for the 3rd time this year. Perhaps it will penetrate your ossified brain cell this time. Like Andy says, you have been shown previously that Hunter coal mining / power station communities are no different health-wise to the rest of regional NSW communities. Hard stats from Hunter Valley GPs. Now go to bed and stop trolling. We’re over it.

          https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/phb/Documents/2013-2.pdf

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            from your link
            Some regions with exposure to
            open-cut coal mining and power generation were shown to have higher rates of emergency department attendance for asthma and respiratory disease, and higher rates of hospital admission for asthma, respiratory conditions and cardiovascular disease. There was ongoing community concern that hospital data only represented severe disease.

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            more from your link
            It is of interest that comparison of the management rates of respiratory problems (as a group) during the period 2005–2010 with those for 1998–2004 demonstrated no significant change in the Hunter Valley region despite a significant decrease for the remainder of rural NSW

            my bold
            So despite better medicine in the Regions of NSW, no improvement for the benighted in the Hunter

            Live near a coal mine, or a power station and you will be sicker.

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        • #
          Graeme#4

          Sigh… You again make a baseless assertion PF, and when challenged, make no attempt to back it up with any data.. This time I WILL call you a troll, because that’s all trolls do.
          Yes, I do have the CSIRO and EPA documents that prove there is no problem in the valleys, plus the recorded comments of Latrobe Valley health professionals, who point out that there are many other more dominant reasons for the poor health in the Latrobe Valley.

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    • #
      Graeme#4

      And PF, may I point out that each year, due to an absence of cheap energy from any source, including coal, 4 million people die worldwide, mostly women and children, mainly from air pollution due to internal cooking and heating using wood, charcoal or animal dung. This is from a WHO report. In India in 2018, 160,000 people died from illnesses related to smoke inhalation from cooking with animal dung.
      So which is worse? 6 deaths from coal mines here, or hundreds of thousands of deaths from folks who could really use our coal. It’s all relative mate.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        so cheap energy which causes air pollution, causes death. who knew?

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        • #
          robert rosicka

          You seem to be doubling down on stoopid lately did Getup give you a raise ?

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        • #
          AndyG55

          Yes, the ABSCENCE of cheap RELIABLE energy causes these people to have to live that way

          But those of the renewable UNRELIABLE, INTERMITTENT energy have stopped these people from gaining that cheap RELIABLE energy from coal power..

          They have many hundreds of thousands of DEATHS on their hands

          BUT THEY DON’T CARE.

          Do YOU care, PF?

          or is it what you DESIRE, the deliberate DEATHS of hundreds of thousands of people in poorer lands.. !!

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          Bobl

          Incredible, CO2 is an essential component of the atmosphere which underpins photosynthesis and feeds all life on this planet. It is not pollution, other than that almost all the other toxins are filtered out from Power station exhausts these days Peter. Coal power is not particularly polluting. Indeed there is more real pollution from rare earth’s and lithium.

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        • #
          Lance

          Cheap energy lengthens life, improves living standards, raises people out of poverty, feeds billions, and powers the entire modern world.

          Expensive, unreliable, non dispatchable, intermittent energy, destroys economies, threatens world stability, and is an ignorant thing to desire.

          Fitz, you are selling an ideological agenda. Or, you are a well intentioned, but ignorant, fool.

          What is abundantly obvious, is that you have close to zero understanding of grid scale power generation, transmission, distribution, relaying, frequency control, voltage control, economic dispatch, and a host of things relevant to keeping a grid operational.

          Exactly what happens when a national grid collapses? How is a black start accomplished without greater than 55% thermal generation? What do you do about the lost refrigeration, traffic lights, internet, cell phones, food distribution, jammed freeways, starving people, lack of water, lack of sanitation, widespread violence and social collapse? Your fantasy solutions invite such things. You have zero idea what you are talking about.

          That’s why no one takes you seriously. You’re talking adolescent nonsense, ungrounded in fact or reason, with no apparent concept of resource limited technologies and a disregard for national social structures and security.

          Emotional thinking, group echo chamber nonsense, appeals to authority, and generalized ignorance of grid requirements, mark your every comment as “irrelevant”.

          Go to school. Become a Licensed/Registered Electrical Power Engineer, and then you might understand some of this.

          Prattling on loudly with such shallow knowledge simply makes you look foolish.

          Have a nice day.

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Wow, what a backwards critique. revel in the knowledge that your comfort depends on the emiseration for those living around coal mines, and power plants, the death and injuries for those who mine the coal.
            Grow up, and grow a conscience.

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            • #
              AndyG55

              Poor little mind PF

              https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/phb/Documents/2013-2.pdf

              NO EVIDENCE OF ANY HEALTH PROBLEMS FROM COAL IN THE HUNTER..

              Where is YOUR conscience for all the third world people dying because of being deprived of cheap RELIABLE electricity

              You have NO CONSCIENCE, just smarm and zero evidence rhetoric.

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            • #
              Lance

              Wow. What an arrogant critique. Revel in the knowledge that your sanctimony depends on the emiseration of those digging the minerals for your pathetic attempt to replace reliability with politics.
              Grow up, and get some knowledge and humility.

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            • #
              Lance

              So tell us all, please, how does one perform a terawatt scale black start with intermittent sources that cannot synchronize without a thermal plant synch pulse? What, we wait until high noon on a windy day to make the attempt? Oh, maybe its the batteries that do it. Maybe your 20 to 30 % capacity factor answers somehow supply the 600% impulse load required for a nearly pure inductive impedence?

              Face it, Peter, you don’t have any viable answers because you don’t understand the problems and your solutions exacerbate the pertinent, factual, and practical issues.

              Hubris is not a substitute for ability.

              Now. Go and cry to someone who cares, because after all, it’s all about emotions, now, isn’t it?

              Once you have a good cry, come back with practical, factual, doable, plans that work and let us all know what those might be.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        I was unaware that children were dying in Australia form dung fires. I have evidence about coal fired air pollution deaths, what is yours?

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      • #

        Abundant, reliable electricity from coal is truly a miracle. No smoke, no flame, no smell. Just flick a switch. And never cease to be grateful for all those who, from mine to line, make it all happen, with all the risks and exertions that come with a great industry. (I reckon the true conservative is a serial appreciator.)

        In well-off places with expensive power – like Tuscany and Galicia where I’ve tramped – people burn everything outside the cities. You don’t want to be a twig let alone a fallen branch outside wealthy Siena.

        It’s never in any accounting or reportage. There no “data” (eyeroll). But when your electricity comes from whirlies or imported French power or African oil, you burn stuff if you can when you can. As for poor countries, the burning never stops. The good news is that cooking dinner over a tyre fire at the local dump doesn’t attract any carbon liabilities.

        Well, Australia is heading down the energy poverty track too now. But it’s been great.

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    • #
      Richard Ilfeld

      Nurse Ratched…would you prepare a shot please.

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      GD

      Coal mining has killed 6 miners this year alone – happy for that to continue, while you run your air-con for longer and longer.

      What a grubby comment!

      Six miners, where? In the world? In Australia?

      P Fitz, so you don’t use air-con? More fool you.

      Air-con isn’t destroying the planet.

      Get a grip, you are deluded. There is no proof that anthropogenic CO2 is warming the planet. None whatsoever.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        Melbourne Uni study

        “In the past 13 years, 42,000 people have been hospitalised due to venomous bites and stings. A third of those were a result of bee stings.”

        27 deaths in Australia from bees etc from 2000-2013

        74 deaths in that period due to horse related events.

        You are SAFER mining coal than in your backyard !!

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Queensland, this year

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        • #
          AndyG55

          27 deaths in Australia from bees etc from 2000-2013

          74 deaths in that period due to horse related events.

          You are SAFER mining coal than in your backyard !!

          Transport industry.. 37 deaths so far.. shut down all transport !

          Agriculture fishing 25 death this year.. shut down all fishing and agriculture

          Construction 16 deaths so far… shut down all construction

          Mining , 6

          All deaths are unfortunate,

          but why don’t you care about the hundreds of thousands dying in third world countries because they have no access to RELIABLE electricity ???

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      joseph

      Another great debate !

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      ‘CO2 is going into the Atmosphere, and has add 100 ppm since the 1900′s, and the rest you all deny’ FAKE for several reasons.
      1 Absorption by the oceans.
      2. The lifetime of CO2 is less than 10 years (NOT the infinite time the fake IPCC claims).
      3. The so called ‘increase’ is probably fake or exaggerated. CO2 is NOT distributed evenly throughout the atmosphere as the (fake) models use.
      4. CO2 is BENEFICIAL, lets have more!

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    Russ Wood

    South Africa has already experienced the effects when you ‘ban’ cars from cities. Johannesburg, SA’s commercial capital, was the centre of a ‘hub and spoke’ road and transportation system. And it was getting choked. So, JHB council made a bye-law limiting the amount of parking, both public (which already wasn’t enough) and in the huge corporate head offices. New or extended buildings could only have ‘so many’ parking bays per hundred employees. What was the result? Almost all of SA’s major companies moved their offices to neighbouring Sandton (which was a separate municipality at the time). Sandton was a spread-out suburban district at the time, with zero public transport, and the whole move chopped a huge lump out of Johannesburg’s rates and taxes. And now, traffic that was NEVER allowed for, added to the sheer COST of living anywhere near Sandton centre, forces employees to live many kilometers away, and commute by car! The average time to get to work from an affordable housing area now exceeds an hour each way!
    Er, I think I can see the problem…

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    • #
      RicDre

      “The new green deal from Canberra”

      Oh good, Canberra can be the crash-test dummy for the “Green New Deal”. If we need a second crash-test dummy, I vote that it be implemented inside the Washington DC beltway.

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    robert rosicka

    And just because we like to scare the kiddies , here’s one from the socialist green ABC .

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-16/radical-choice-to-confront-climate-change/11515456

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      We must have had the same thought at the same time. (Imposted the same link at #25.)
      Cheers
      Dave B

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      Serp

      “climigration”, what a lame effort even for the subliterate our abc; silly me for breaking a rule and following the link… I’ve given you an upthumb for having verified the correctness of my anti-OurAbc bias.

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    pat

    Reuters says it’s a climate election!

    15 Sept: Japan Times: Reuters: Concern about climate could carry Greens to breakthrough in Canadian election
    Green Party leader Elizabeth May mimes shaking hands with an absent Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who chose not to attend the Maclean’s/Citytv National Leaders Debate last Thursday in Toronto – REUTERS
    TORONTO – With climate change a top concern heading into next month’s Canadian election and mainstream candidates offering little inspiration, Green Party leader Elizabeth May could be poised for a breakthrough.

    The Greens have toiled in obscurity for almost 30 years, but polls suggest the environmentalist party could emerge from the Oct. 21 election holding the balance of power. This could hasten the government’s move toward renewable energy and reduce support for the oil industry, a major exporter and a big employer in Alberta and Saskatchewan.
    The Greens are sitting at around 11 percent public support, more than triple the 3.4 percent the party received in the 2015 election when May, an effervescent 65-year-old, was the only legislator to win a seat. Public opinion surveys suggest her party might win up to 10 seats in the House of Commons…

    Backing for the Greens has surged after a rash of major floods, tornadoes and forest fires in recent years. Climate change is happening in Canada at twice the global rate, according to a recently released government study. Some surveys say the environment is the top priority among voters…

    “We will not support any party or collection of parties to form a government that has not committed with real intent and clarity to move away from fossil fuels as quickly as possible,” (May) said.
    She wants a ban on future crude oil pipelines and to block the planned expansion of the Trans Mountain Line from Alberta to British Columbia, which the Trudeau government bought for 4.5 billion Canadian dollars ($3.4 billion) last year.
    Were the Liberals to need the support of Greens or New Democrats, it would be “dire” for the oil industry, said Rafi Tahmazian, a portfolio manager specializing in energy investing at Canoe Financial in Calgary…
    May says she will seek to fill the fossil fuel void by promoting a switch to a clean energy model.
    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/09/16/world/politics-diplomacy-world/concern-climate-carry-greens-breakthrough-canadian-election/#.XX9LGOR7mP8

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    Gerry

    I can’t wait to read the definition of ‘Climate Change’ in the Bill.

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    pat

    16 Sept: HindustanTimes: At UN Climate Summit, green funds, collective commitment in focus
    At the same time, sticky issues such as delivering on the $100 billion Green Climate Fund and the principle of common but differentiated responsibility (CBDR) based on the different capabilities of economies are likely to be discussed at the forum.
    by Jayashree Nandi
    Days ahead of the summit, called by UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres to urge nations to enhance their ambitions to meet targets, India’s environment secretary CK Mishra said the group of like-minded developing countries (LMDCs), G-77 developing nations and Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa (BRICS) are likely to underline the CBDR principle, or the principle of equity at the summit…

    “The dirty fossil fuel party is over; we now have to clean up the mess. Whoever caused the biggest mess has the most responsibility. Millions of people are already experiencing the devastating effects of extreme weather, rising sea levels and hunger. Climate justice means that rich polluting countries must own up to their responsibility for causing the crisis. They also need to deliver on their promise to provide $100 billion per year of climate finance to help developing countries cope with impacts and green their economies,” said Harjeet Singh, global lead on climate change for ActionAid…
    https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/at-un-climate-summit-green-funds-collective-commitment-in-focus/story-vJqZTfpRXuLBIXZB8D9MRP.html

    15 Sept: LA Times Editorial: Wealthy countries are responsible for climate change, but it’s the poor who will suffer most
    But the effort must be led by the nations that reaped so many of the benefits of economic development and increased wealth through industrialization for so long…
    The call for “climate justice” is not new. In 2010 and then again at the 2015 Paris agreement on climate change, wealthier nations pledged to donate to the so-called Green Climate Fund, building up to $100 billion per year by 2020…
    The goal of the fund is to use “public investment to stimulate private finance” for climate-related projects. It is governed by a board of representatives from 24 nations…
    So far, donor nations have coughed up only $10.3 billion…

    Even as they change their own energy policies, the world’s wealthier nations must also help developing countries create sustainable energy grids…
    The rich nations must help heavily populated low-lying regions…
    We also must help with mitigation efforts…

    There is no doubt that this will be expensive. But the cost of inaction would be astronomical, both in dollars and in human suffering. All too often, possible solutions to critical problems face headwinds from people who can’t see beyond the dollar signs. But in the case of global warming, we have little choice…
    The investment here is in our continued survival — and it must be undertaken collectively with other nations around the world. To turn away would be catastrophic.
    This is Part 2 of a three-part series on climate change.
    https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-climate-change-global-warming-part-2-story.html

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  • #
    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    Some more fear mongering and a new label. Add in some carefully selected actual disasters (mostly from of lack of foresight years ago) and you’ve got the basis of a great new bureaucracy. Leave out any justification, but blame “climate change” anyway.
    You could probably set a whole new faculty in JCU.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-16/radical-choice-to-confront-climate-change/11515456

    Cheers
    Dave B

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  • #
    Serge Wright

    The Greens are using an old con man’s trick. You find some irrefutable facts that were once questioned and then you throw in a big piece of bulls..t in the middle. The facts on RE are simple. After almost two decades and despite our highest rates of RE investment per capita in the world, the only outcome is higher prices, shrinking business, rising energy poverty and emissions still rising. The smart developing countries that are pumping out a new coal plant every week must think we are the biggest jokes in human history.

    In response to this Green nonsense can someone please put a motion to the parliament “Solar panels don’t work at night and the wind only blows sometimes”. No doubt the Greens will reject this motion, but that’s the point.

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Meanwhile, Morrison says global warming was what done it …

    Scott Morrison has dismissed suggestions his government has not acted to address [global warming] while acknowledging climate was “one of many factors” that fuelled ferocious bushfires in Queensland and New South Wales.

    “So we are dealing with challenging conditions. It is very dry at the moment. That’s what happens in droughts.

    “[Global Warming] is one of many factors going to these incidents.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/sep/13/queensland-bushfires-firefighters-brace-for-worsening-conditions

    Morrison is all over the shop swamp.

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    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Ya reckon it’s the same [global warming] causing the Boom-Bang-Bong to prophecy snow and frigid temps for NSW on your spring equinox next Monday 23 September? Coz like warming causes freezing right? Bad humans. Evil carbon.

      http://www.bom.gov.au/nsw/forecasts/perisher.shtml

      Maybe Gang un Green will claim the cooling snow is a sign from Gaia-Greta that they are the new chosen ones for saving the planet or sumpthink. It’s gonna get weird +97% from here on in…

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  • #
    Speedy

    May I suggest to the Senate that they ask (without notice) for the honourable member for Melbourne to explain – in his own words – what objective, logical evidence does he have s that global warming is man-made, unprecedented and catastrophic? After they have removed the bluster and BS, the Senate will find that he doesn’t have any.

    The next question – without notice again – what has been achieved with the billions of taxpayer dollars that have been poured into this scam?

    And the final question – when can the Senate expect his resignation and apology?

    Cheers,

    Mike

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  • #
    Greg in NZ

    But… there’s only 0.38 of a degree difference since 1979 – why the panic?
    Aug 2019 Global Warming-Cooling-Nothing map:
    https://www.nsstc.uah.edu/climate/2019/august2019/201908_map.png

    August was tied with July – the same 0.38˚C anomaly – no change whatsoever. Flat. Stagnant. What to do? Panic! Scream & shout & call out silly names & throw yourself on the ground like, um, it’s an emergency, except it ain’t, it’s a tantrum. Oh dear, who’da thunk the new world religion would be just like the old one…

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  • #
    liberator

    The Australian Greens will urge the Senate to put the denial that burning coal has an impact on climate change, on par with some of the world’s wackiest conspiracy theories.
    Party leader Richard Di Natale will move a motion on Monday noting that the upper house accepts humans first landed on the moon on July 20, 1969, and that the earth is round.

    What? At least there is evidence that man landed on the Moon and that the Earth is round. Where is the evidence that generating power from burning fossil fuels is resulting in climate change – you know real evidence not models. Now that’s a real big conspiracy and we all have our theories.

    I wonder how many skeptics actually deny climate change? They don’t deny it I’m sure – they just question its “cause” if there is a cause at all.

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      I’m a firm believer that the climate can change and can see a slight change in my local area and for an example a friends farm used to cut hay every year on Melbourne cup day but now have to cut much earlier .
      Having said that I believe it’s cyclical and not caused by my love of liquid amber and an oil burning fourbie .
      Coincidentally when we first moved out to the sticks about 25 years ago we had to truck water in two to three times a year and in the last 6 years we’ve only needed one load and it rained three days after the drop .

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      • #
        Bobl

        Dunno Rob, I seem to remember the climate changing quite a bit between last June and last December… I think they called it summer… From memory it was a catastrophic 20 degree or so change in daily Max… what a disaster.

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      • #
        beowulf

        Sorry Robert, but cutting hay is not a good example to demonstrate climate change. Unless you live somewhere where snow covers the ground for 6 months or somewhere with monsoonal deluges, then the timing of haymaking is entirely a management decision.

        In most of Australia it can be done at any time of the year, although normally through the warmer months when it dries better. Lucerne is generally cut about 5 or 6 times a year for instance. All you need is enough excess feed to cut and that is dependent on management and recent weather, not climate.

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        • #
          robert rosicka

          If your cutting Rye grass it has to be cut just as the pollen develops and this farm has been in the same family since settlement .
          Some of the farm is elevated but it’s only the flats that were cut , I always thought it was strange they only cut on the first Tuesday in November but that just coincided with the paddocks drying up enough to get a tractor on and the grass being at the right stage in its growth.
          I believe my mates old man was going by protein levels in the grass at this stage so towards the later years the seeding came on earlier so they had to cut earlier .
          I wish I had of copied their weather records which went back to the Kelly era but most of it was lost when an old shed toppled over and left to the elements after the father passed away .
          I haven’t been back there for years admittedly and yes you may be right the earlier development of the grass could be for a variety of reasons so I must check next time I’m in the area and see if anything has changed .

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          • #
            beowulf

            Yes, well they shouldn’t wait to cut ryegrass when the pollen develops, that gives you the greatest bulk of low-quality hay. (It’s also a bast*rd to work with because you are getting choked with pollen for hours on end.) The best quality (protein, digestibility etc) is obtained by cutting before the head even emerges, weeks before pollen formation. By the time it is coming into pollen it is getting old and daggy, but I’ve had to make hay at that stage too occasionally.

            Sounds like you are in Tassie, because our ryegrass around here would be in pollen by late-September (depending upon the season and prior grazing management), and dead and buried by Melbourne Cup day. You say November is the first they could get a tractor onto the paddocks?? Every year?? Those must be some wet paddocks. There’s your answer then, nothing to do with climate change effects on the ryegrass, all to do with rainfall, and surely the rainfall varies year by year. Waterlogging may also account for late pollination.

            That’s a damned shame about those weather records. Stuff like that is invaluable. There must be a lot of other properties with long term records that are just going to waste.

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  • #
    pat

    15 Sept: National Scotland: Push to make Glasgow greener in time for critical UN climate summit in city
    By Nan Spowart
    IT’S fondly known as the dear green place but environmental campaigners are calling for urgent action to make Glasgow greener before it hosts a critical UN climate change summit next year.
    The clock is ticking with only 15 months to go until 200 world leaders and 30,000 delegates descend on the city for the most important climate change event since the 2015 Paris agreement.
    Lasting for two weeks, COP26 will be the largest summit ever hosted in the UK but critics are warning that the “shoddy” transport system and illegally high levels of pollution in parts of the city will be a major embarrassment unless radical measures are put in place quickly…
    A climate emergency working group was set up earlier this year and its report includes 61 recommendations which it is hoped the council will adopt to speed up the greening of Glasgow…
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17903220.push-make-glasgow-greener-time-critical-un-climate-summit-city/

    23 Aug: EveningTimesUK: Climate emergency: This is the radical plan to make Glasgow greener
    By Stewart Paterson
    The group wants the city to be carbon neutral by 2030, seven years earlier than the previous target.
    The list of 61 recommendations includes reducing the number of HGVs and vans in the city centre and more car-free zones…

    It calls for the Strathclyde Pension Fund for public sector workers to stop investing in fossil fuel companies.
    It said that the pension fund had moved away from investing in tobacco and arms companies and stated: “We can do it again and we should do it for hydrocarbons.”
    There should be more segregated cycle routes across the city and a major tree planning programme…

    The working group recognised the need for businesses to get deliveries but said that a model of zero emissions for the final mile should be the target…

    Martha Wardrop, ***Green councillor, chair of the working Group, said: “With only 10 years to make radical changes we need action to start right away…
    “The climate emergency must also be placed front and centre of Glasgow’s economy and so a revised economic strategy for the city is essential.”…
    Councillor Anna Richardson (SNP), City Convener for Sustainability and Carbon Reduction, said the pace of change has to speed up…

    FROM COMMENTS:
    betty Mccormick
    Don’t hold your breath as it won’t happen as the councillors are getting ferried about in limousines or does that not count ,and who will be cycling to work in the winter and will all the councillors be using public transport?…
    Frank Hoy
    Climate change is fake news.it is called the weather. And what happened with global warming eh? Just wait for lots of nice wee green taxes to come your way.
    https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/17856242.climate-emergency-radical-plan-make-glasgow-greener/

    15 Sept: Scotsman: Don’t COP out on climate, conference hosts told
    On winning the bid to stage the summit, international development secretary Alok Sharma said the decision was “testimony to the UK’s leading role in the global fight against climate change”.
    But campaigners have pointed out that landing the Conference of Parties (COP) is not based on a country’s environmental credentials and more to do with the depth of its pockets…

    Ministers have set out aims to cut emissions by 70 per cent by 2030, 90 per cent by 2040 and to reach net-zero by 2045.
    But the coalition Stop Climate Chaos Scotland, which includes Greenpeace, Oxfam, WWF, RSPB and Christian Aid as well as Friends of the Earth, is calling for an even more ambitious goal – 80 per cent by 2030…
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/don-t-cop-out-on-climate-conference-hosts-told-1-5004556

    31

    • #
      Zane

      Looks like many of those NGOs and ” charities ” listed should be defunded and banned as terrorist organisations. After all, what they are planning is worse than anything a bunch of Islamists could do.

      80

    • #
      RicDre

      “The clock is ticking with only 15 months to go until 200 world leaders and 30,000 delegates descend on [Glasgow]”

      The clock is also ticking on finalizing the AR6 Climate models which are running hotter than the previous models.

      (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/04/new-climate-models-predict-warming-surge)

      It will be interesting to see if the IPCC:

      1) figures out why they are running hot and fixes the problem
      2) makes more adjustments to the Parametrizations to cool the models off
      3) leaves the models as is and declares “Its worse than we thought!”

      80

  • #
    Sally Mitcheell

    Oh shut up

    31

  • #
    TdeF

    Adam Bandt gave a lecture when he was looking to be elected to the Melbourne City Council. Among others I listened carefully and was amazed that it was straight communist ideology and practice. So I asked him after the lecture if he really believed in the communist logic he was promoting and his answer to me was “we tell them what they want to hear and when we get power, we do what we like”. I was appalled. He had indeed learned from Lenin and Stalin.

    Like a lot of freshly graduated lawyers, he was looking for a career in politics. I found later that he had just completed his PhD on communism in relation to workers on the Melbourne waterfront, as I remember. He has kept that secret but the communists drifted into the Greens and took it over, like other communists around the world. Universally they hide behind the term socialist, like Green Senator Lee Rhiannon who spent her life denying her devout communist principles learned from her parents and at Lomonosov university in Moscow.

    Two others who tried communism as a career path include science fiction writer L Ron Hubbard, who started the science religion Scientology who has hurt tens of thousands of people for his own self aggrandisement and enormous wealth. And the ‘Reverend’ Jim Jones, who also gave up and started a religion instead and took everyone with him on a terrible day in Guyana.

    The world is coming to an end is rubbish. Bandt knows it! Like Al Gore with no science at all. Tim Flannery, a science free PhD in dead kangaroos. Bill Nye, the science guy, an aeronautical engineer. Rajendra Pachauri, a railway engineer.

    Scruples get in the way and truth is the first casualty. Then free speech. Then freedom itself. It has nothing to do with Carbon Dioxide and saving the planet. Or as veteran opportunist Graham Richardson says, “whatever it takes”.

    150

    • #
      TdeF

      Devotees of these false prophets do not need reasoned logic and science. Like Moonies they need deprogramming.

      120

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Speaking of Flannery, try this:

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-17/climate-change-deniers-are-a-threat-to-our-children/11518138

      But please don’t ask me to analyse, discuss or comment as I gave up after just a few paragraphs.
      (I was thinking of offering a reward to anyone who completed reading the article, but decided that there are too many of you who are sufficiently determined and would rapidly empty my pockets.)
      Cheers
      Dave B

      100

      • #
        TdeF

        To use James Delingpole’s lovely phrase, weapons grade drivel.

        80

      • #
      • #
        Bulldust

        I couldn’t finish it either. It was full alarmist. You never go full alarmist… (hat tip Tropic Thunder).

        50

        • #
          Bulldust

          Also, I have to love how the ABC doesn’t even try to hide their blatant bias anymore. In the run up to the climate events of this weekend they are collaborating with the Greens, and those more extreme, by pushing article after alarmist article.

          40

      • #
        Annie

        I don’t qualify for any reward you might have offered David. I couldn’t read all of the utterly nauseating guff/drivel. People like Tim Flannery are the real predators, on all of us and our children and grandchildren. They disgust me.

        40

        • #
          TdeF

          Calling Flannery a scientist is wrong. An degree from a science faculty without any undergraduate mathematics, physics or chemistry does not make you a scientist. You cannot have Rational science without mathematics, physics and chemistry, just for a start.

          I am aghast at the new generation of PhDs too, in the wackiest fields. Last night on the News they interviews a ‘Suburban Ecologist’ about the dangers of magpies. What?

          In the 1970s, at Melbourne University 12 PhDs graduated at a time and the total student and staff population was 14,000.

          The last award ceremony I attended for RMIT ‘University’ graduated over 200 PhDs on one night from a student population of 80,0000. The population of Melbourne has only increased 50% but the number of ‘universities’ has exploded. The population of PhDs has increased at least 1000%. One PhD synopsis was on the study of delivery systems for Halal meat. I wonder if it was a science degree?

          Dr.Tim Flannery would take questions on fruit bat psychiatry. More knowledge than google. More expert than Wikipedia.

          30

  • #
    sophocles

    Willie Soon at WUWT has drawn an interesting correlation: The more chocolate consumed, the more likely a Nobel Prize.
    Maybe we should take the hint — Jo hasn’t got her Nobel yet: more chocolate needed! :-)

    (see: Global Warming: Fact or Fiction? Featuring Physicists Willie Soon and Elliott Bloom
    [https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/15/global-warming-fact-or-fiction-featuring-physicists-willie-soon-and-elliott-bloom] )

    110

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    It does appear to me that the enviros around the world, like the candidates for the Dem nomination in the US,
    are following the maxim of the old country preacher, who wrote a note to himself in the margin of the text of
    his sermon: “Argument weak here, Yell like Hell!.”

    90

    • #
      Another Ian

      Seems more like theirs is

      “It didn’t work that time. Yell louder when repeating”

      60

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Yell, shout, point (the finger),
        wave your arms, shed a tear, and if the crowd are still in doubt, yell they will BURRRRN!!!
        The science of religion has never changed – the one & only thing that is settled.

        https://electroverse.net/new-zealand-shock-to-the-system-as-temperatures-set-to-crash/

        Scientivists, cult followers, and various media, still confuse ‘weather’ for ‘climate’: pre-frontal nor’westers are warm & windy; once the front passes, rain/snow & colder temps ensue – thus it always was. Yet now, a warm windy day is consensus-speak for Climate BURNING! Just send your money to…

        N.B. Canberra ‘warming’ up to 12˚C max today, dropping to 0˚ freezing overnight, according to your BooM forecast, with cold waves rolling through all next week – just in time for the UN CCC®ap Show in NY City, where Madness and Hysteria rule.

        50

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          “Heavy rain warnings are in place for Buller, Westland and the Canterbury lakes. While strong wind warnings are in effect for the Canterbury high country where gusts up to 120km/h are expected in exposed areas.”
          I know places in the Mt Cook range where you can replace that 120km/hr with MILES/hr!
          And oh maybe Westland will exceed the inch per day (360 inch/per annum) average rainfall.

          50

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Yes…cokd here in nsw…my fire is on and weve had snow today….

          20

  • #
    Ruairi

    The Greens being now deified,
    Can’t be challenged, reproved or defied,
    While politicians ensure,
    That Green dogma stays pure,
    And no doctrine of theirs be denied.

    120

  • #
    TdeF

    No matter how crazy it seems, someone is prepared to get crazier.

    The British Army desperate to attract ‘woke’ recruits is going to phase out fossil fuels in their tanks (and presumably in their shells).

    You can just see the tanks in attack formation, waiting for the windmills to charge their 70 tonne monsters so they can go forward another meter. That’s all the British army needs, vegetarian pacifist woke gender non specific soldiers in wind driven tanks with shells filled with jello and propelled by organically grown wheat and avocado fat. Still they will not be needed to defend any borders because in a fully woke world, no one has borders, or anything else.

    180

    • #
      Another Ian

      Rather than

      “Remember the Alamo”

      maybe theirs should be

      “Remember Gillette”?

      80

      • #
        TdeF

        Perhaps a line of blunt pink Gillette razors so daughters would not hurt themselves shaving? Or a warning on the packet that they are not to be used for combat? You cannot get out of a close shave with Gillette?

        100

        • #
          TdeF

          What on earth possessed Gillette to start lecturing their male customers on social behavior? A shaver manufacturer as ethics counsellor? Next you will have Hollywood stars lecturing their fans on ethics and relationships and carbon dioxide production and being vegetarian. These are absolute fr*uds who generally dropped out of high school and lie for a living and rose to the top by sheer talent while remaining virgns.

          81

          • #
            TdeF

            Maybe that’a a bit harsh. Actors spend their lives pretending to be someone else, even playing the US President. One famous Hollywood cowboy even became US President. He told jokes well.

            They play moral people, heroes, villains, traitors, victims and fighters and they change their appearance, their voices and speak other people’s lines. And we are supposed to believe that they are objective and not victims of their own profession? Unlikely. Even Peter Sellers said he often forgot which voice was his real voice and every morning he had to remember it. As for #metoo, it must be the most absurd hastag for tinsel town and about as honest as #jesuischarlie when no one is.

            50

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Oh great, see how far electric tanks will go in a REAL battle!

      60

      • #
        TdeF

        As an aside, the WWII tanks were close to hybrids, giant diesel or petrol motors which then drive electric motors. Everything was electric, which vastly simplified the drive systems. Hybrids are the future for cars too, not electric cars. No gearbox, no drive shafts but a lot of storage for the batteries, typically a fixed 500-800kg of them.

        Diesel was better for tanks in that it had more energy per litre and did not brew up when struck. Petrol tanks would explode. It was a great advantage of the Russian T34. The final fast lethal Nazi submarines were run by huge lead acid batteries. They could travel underwater as fast as the surface ships and deep enough not to be seen by aircraft. They could go days without recharging the batteries so they could run silent. They would have been unstoppable. Luckily few were put to sea before the Russians grabbed 65 of them.

        Either way you need a huge amount of energy to drive a 60-70 tonne tank any distance. The US front line Abrams uses a gas turbine of 1,120kw or 1.12 Megawatts. Potentially lower CO2 output though with natural gas, so better for the environment?

        It is just absurd to read of soldiers and lethal machines being sold as environmentally friendly. That isn’t the point of total war.

        100

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Hi Jo,

    An outstanding thread with the guest blog clogger finally losing it completely.

    Is there an authorized recycling centre for broken blog cloggers?

    KK

    130

  • #
    mothcatcher

    Hi, Jo
    Just got your msg here on the topside of the world. after a bottle of merlot..

    Thought it one of your best, targeted, precise and entertaining polemics for quite a while. No sarc here, genuine admiration.
    The world is dividing again. Grew up with the reassuring certainties of left vs right, commie vs the West, MAD and all that. Then the Berlin Wall came down. Thought we had won. Oh, no. It’s all happening again, but in a far more insidious way. At least then, most people knew who the enemy was.

    Keep up the good work.

    140

    • #
      el gordo

      It was the fall of the Berlin Wall which forced the rats into the open, so they joined legitimate political parties and corrupted them. We are talking about free radicals and the quiet revolution, the cultural Marxists now hold sway in most western countries.

      90

  • #
    Another Ian

    More ointing to holes in “the science”

    “How California Is Hitting The Renewable Wall”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/09/16/how-california-is-hitting-the-renewable-wall/

    60

  • #
  • #
    Another Ian

    Different parliamentary games

    “A Clear Explanation Of Brexit Games In Historical Context”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/09/16/a-clear-explanation-of-brexit-games-in-historical-context/

    60

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    I feel a great disturbance in the Farce, as if millions of global warming doomsday memes suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
    I fear something terrible has happened.

    Yes. The BBC has just admitted they over-egged the global warming apocalypse …

    Faster pace of climate change is ‘scary’, former chief scientist says

    Prof Sir David King says he’s been scared by the number of extreme events, and he called for the UK to advance its climate targets by 10 years.
    But the UN’s weather chief said using words like “scared” could make young people depressed and anxious.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49689018

    110

    • #
      el gordo

      “It’s appropriate to be scared. We predicted temperatures would rise, but we didn’t foresee these sorts of extreme events we’re getting so soon.”

      The extreme weather events happening in mid latitudes is because of global cooling, a wayward jet stream and blocking high pressure is known to cause this phenomenon.

      80

      • #
        TdeF

        So in the new Bizzaro world, you can have warming generated extreme events without even a change in temperature? And Global Cooling is a direct consequence of Global Warming.

        So like the Great Barrier Reef bleaching which is absolute proof of climate change when the air temperature has not changed significantly in that time. What it needs is $444million from Malcolm Turnbull to stop Climate Change and save the Great Barrier Reef without any plan or idea or even application. Amazingly the unsuspecting recipients of this incredible gift of our cash from Malcolm Medici to Lucy Medici and friends are certain only that the cost of administration this not for profit organization will be $130million. Oh, the humanity! We can only be thankful we are not a corrupt country.

        90

        • #
          Serp

          Our ABC mentioned in one of yesterday’s news bulletins that an announcement has been made as to how some of the unsolicited grant money is to be spent on the GBR –I stopped absorbing the information after hearing that improving the reef’s water quality was one of the projects at which some millions of the loot was to be thrown.

          70

        • #
          Serp

          Victorian members of parliament are certainly thankful for their second pay rise this year making the premier the highest paid in all the Australian states. Well paid politicians guarantees a not corrupt country isn’t it…?

          50

          • #
            TdeF

            I am aghast at our local council. 15% of revenue spent on roads and rubbish. They dump our rubbish overseas. Rates are soaring. Land tax is soaring. And the 1,000 council employees have an AVERAGE salary of $110,000 per year, 40% more than the average for everybody else. And half are above that of course. University Vice Chancellor’s salaries are over $1Million a year. And these socialist talk about the greed of ‘capitalists’. At least the capitalists supply things we need and make their money from trading, not stealing and calling it taxation. And if you run short, just jack up the Land Tax.

            The most outrageous is the $6Billion hidden in our electricity bills to give to people so they can own windmills and solar panels. We pay for these and then have to pay the world’s highest electricity prices. Again, to save the planet. No, to make socialists and Greens rich. It’s always other people’s money.

            60

            • #
              TdeF

              Climate Change, the Socialist dream to steal everyone else’s money. It’s working very well, but only one of many socialist dreams like the Great Barrier Reef. Who needs factories and farms and tourists when you can just steal everyone’s money and call it caring? Only in Western democracies do they get away with it, while sending young girls out to lecture us on evil capitalism and saving the planet. Nothing less than mass theft.

              40

  • #
  • #
    John in Oz

    My response sent to every SA senator who voted aye:

    Sir/Madam,

    I note with disgust that you voted ‘aye’ to the Green’s motion on climate change.

    Will the next vote be on whether water is wet and the sun rises in the East? Perhaps you could add that the sun rises every day, also.

    All 3 items raised may be debated rather than be absolutes:
    a) As noted by Senator Bernardi, your location at the time of the moon landing may change the date
    b) the Earth is an oblate spheroid, not round
    c) no scientist ‘knows’ what the biggest contributor to climate change is. ‘The sun, stupid’ is a well-known comment and is a far greater influence on climate than CO2. Without it, there would be a very different climate on Earth which no amount of CO2 would change. Clouds, ENSO and multi-decadal ocean cycles cannot be modelled so their affect is not known.

    If the Greens would care to explain EVERY naturally occurring contributor to climate change before blaming CO2 then, perhaps, you could vote on known facts, not conjecture.

    As my representative in the Senate, I am disappointed in your lack of investigation in this matter prior to voting.

    (from Mt Barker, SA)

    140

  • #

    People like Adam Bandt are the same ones who prosecuted the Salem Witch Hunts and used the testimony of children for convictions. The Green-Reds are just as dangerous and deranged as the Mediaeval zealots who conducted religious persecutions of Apostates and non-conformists. Adam Bandt’s climate faith makes him impervious to all rational explanations.

    50

  • #
    Michael262

    The conspiracy tag is justified, just look at the many posts here covering:

    Leftist/Marxist/Greenie agenda
    Hidden UN agenda
    Global corruption of science ( pal review, gravy train ,etc)

    All without the precious evidence the deniers keep demanding from scientists.

    212

    • #
      AndyG55

      YAWN.

      You have no evidence of even the most basic facet of the AGW farce

      And you don’t even listen to your AGW priests when they state their agenda in full view.

      You are an EMPTY-minded troll.

      https://i.postimg.cc/Fss1bWkx/endenhofer.png

      https://i.postimg.cc/43MyYYS4/Figueres.png

      80

    • #
      robert rosicka

      I don’t get the conspiracy claim about what the chief of the UN has said on record ,it’s a fact .
      Scientists fiddling the books again fact not fiction you only have to look at climate Gate , the hockey stick and the 97% CONsensus claim .
      None of this is conspiracy it’s all fact , unless you want to call it conspiring to commit frord .

      50

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      It goes with their assumed privilege – They use truthiness, so facts or logic are alien to them

      13

      • #
        AndyG55

        Yet you are totally unable to tell anything except DELIBERATE LIES.

        Still waiting for empirical evidence PF, Been waiting for several months now.

        You wouldn’t know a FACT if it slapped you about the back of the head. !!!

        DENIAL is your middle name, PF.

        cue more mindless propaganda mantra pap with zero-evidence content from PF

        10

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Michael262 you are a TROLL!
      Go try another alternative site to run your BOT!.
      Global corruption of science = the Climate Change Agenda which is TOTALLY CORRUPT!
      Hidden UN agenda is actually NOT hidden its called Agenda21/30 and it is available, the MSM dont want to talk about it. It amounts to totalitarian Green Fascism. As a BOT troll you will know this of course..

      20

  • #
    pat

    from Jo’s AAP article -

    “Party leader Richard Di Natale will move a motion on Monday noting that the upper house accepts humans first landed on the moon on July 20, 1969, and that the earth is round.”

    Cory Bernardi had some fund with that – see p80 of the Hansard John in Oz posted at #44.1.1:

    p80: Senator BERNARDI: I thank the Senate. I really want to put on the record about the motion by the Greens, whilst they were trying to be clever about the Earth being round and the moon-landing and so forth in relation to climate change, that I really didn’t recognise that they worshipped and were so desperate to align themselves with the Northern Hemisphere, including the Trump presidency, by changing the date in Australia of when man landed on the moon. It was actually 21 July 1969, not 20 July as the Greens would have you believe…

    Honourable senators interjecting— Senator

    BERNARDI: I hear the interjection: ‘Tell NASA that!’ Unfortunately, Senator Whish-Wilson and Senator Di Natale, we are in the Southern Hemisphere. You are senators for Australia. You are senators in the Australian parliament. You are not part of the Donald Trump or the Kennedy or the Clinton administration, no matter how much you’d like to be. So, please, stick to the facts, get your motions accurate in this place and then maybe, just maybe, there will be less cynicism about the Greens and your motions…

    18 Jul: Dept of Industry, Innovation & Science: Australia and the first Moon landing
    On 21 July 2019, it will be 50 years since the Apollo 11 mission landed on the Moon…
    https://www.industry.gov.au/news-media/australian-space-agency-news/australia-and-the-first-moon-landing

    also some fun stuff in Hansard from Eric Abetz – p30 – about Bob Brown/coal/convoy and the Federal election.

    70

  • #
    pat

    ***MSM & the CAGW mob always seem to be “surprised” by weather, elections results, Brexit, etc. perhaps they should stop thinking they are infallible:

    17 Sept: SMH: Sydney drenched as spring snow lands in Blue Mountains, Goulburn
    By Jenny Noyes
    Parts of NSW including the Blue Mountains, Goulburn, the Southern Highlands and Bathurst are waking to a ***surprise spring snowfall as a cold front moving through the state brings wintry temperatures and buckets of rain to Sydney.
    Snow and ice is causing hazardous road conditions on the Hume Highway near Goulburn and the Great Western Highway between Bathurst and Leura, but both highways are currently open.
    The Hume Highway was blocked by several trucks earlier in the morning that were unable to pass the ice, a spokesman for the Transport Management Centre said.

    Bureau of Meteorology forecaster Abrar Shabren said the snow has been triggered by a frontal system crossing the state from the west overnight, which has also brought significant rainfall to Sydney – at 9am more than 19mm had been recorded at Observatory Hill since Monday, with more rain to come throughout Tuesday.
    Temperatures in Sydney dropped about 10 degrees in an hour from a balmy 28 to a wintry 18 on Monday afternoon as the front arrived. The city is forecast to reach a frosty maximum of 15 on Tuesday.
    Snow is expected to continue falling at altitudes over 800 metres until around midday, Mr Shabren said.
    Katoomba Public School told parents it would be closed until 11am due to the conditions.
    Katoomba resident Chris Dubrow said his wife would be walking to work and he was going to work from home after waking to a blanket of snow…
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/cold-front-brings-spring-snow-to-blue-mountains-goulburn-20190917-p52rzx.html

    40

  • #
    pat

    ABC has found their spin:

    17 Sept: ABC: Snow falls in Canberra region after hot spring day that reached 25 degrees
    By Isaac Nowroozi and Markus Mannheim
    Canberrans awoke to widespread snow on Tuesday morning that blanketed the surrounding region and delayed highway traffic…
    The snowfall followed an unseasonably warm Monday that reached 25 degrees Celcius in the ACT, before temperatures dropped to zero overnight during the rain shower…

    Commuters coming to the capital from Goulburn, Braidwood and Captains Flat reported significant delays due to the amount on snow on the roads, especially the Federal and Hume highways.
    Callers to ABC Radio said the snow continued to fall after sunrise.
    “We’ve had a lot of snow overnight. Probably close to a foot in some places,” one said…

    The Bureau of Meteorology’s Jordan Notaro said the snow was “unusual” because it formed as a result of rainfall rather than a cold front.
    “Thirty millimetres or so fell over the overnight period, which cooled down the surface level quite significantly,” Mr Notaro said.
    “The mechanism that resulted in snow is definitely one that is more rare.
    “Instead of seeing the typical mechanism of a really strong cold front that lowered the … freezing level to a level that results in snow, the actual dropping of that snow level was [caused] by a rain event,” he explained…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-17/snow-in-canberra-after-hot-spring-day/11519280

    Unusual spring snow puts the chill on much of NSW, ACT
    The New Daily – 24 minutes ago

    NSW race meeting abandoned due to snow
    Punters – 1 hour ago
    Please be advised that due to overnight snow & limited access to Goulburn Greyhound Racing Club, today’s race meeting has been cancelled…

    70

    • #
      Maptram

      No mention of the apparent temperature by the BOM. The BOM observations site has the temperature and the apparent temperature, the temperature being the temperature measured in a box while the apparent temperature is the temperature as it is affected by wind and evaporation. The apparent temperature got as low as -3.6°C in Canberra.

      40

  • #
    pat

    17 Sept: Goulburn Post: Traffic warning as the Southern Tablelands wakes up white
    by Hannah Sparks
    PHOTO GALLERY – 19 PICS
    The top temperature is due to be 13 in Yass, 9 in Goulburn, 7 in Crookwell, 9 in Braidwood and 12 in Queanbeyan.
    https://www.goulburnpost.com.au/story/6389332/bushfires-yesterday-snow-today-across-the-southern-tablelands/

    40

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    16 Sept: UK Times: National Grid upgrade is six years late
    by Emily Gosden
    A major IT upgrade designed to help National Grid keep the lights on and cut costs to consumers is running six years late and still not working properly.
    The energy giant, which is under scrutiny after Britain’s worst blackouts in a decade last month, has spent more than £100 million on the “Electricity Balancing System” (EBS) that was originally due to start up in 2013.

    The new system was supposed to automatically instruct power plants to fire up when needed, replacing the current “essentially manual” 1980s system. The EBS, however, is still not fully functioning, raising questions about how effectively National Grid is managing Britain’s energy security…
    National Grid is a FTSE 100 group with operating profits of £3.4 billion last year…

    National Grid first proposed replacing its control room’s IT system more than a decade ago. It has said the existing balancing mechanism has “reached ‘end of life’ and requires replacement”, calling it “essentially a manual system originally developed to control a handful of coal units”. The growth of renewables and small-scale “distributed” power generation means it has to handle hundreds of plants, which it has said could be “difficult” ***during windy conditions…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f8be51e0-d7f3-11e9-9cfd-b79996a387b0

    20

  • #
    Gee Aye

    This is clearly wrong

    In 1475, the term “denial” was first used, and it meant to deny God.

    It was actually Egyptions thousands of years earlier, although the spelling varies when translated from the hieroglyph.

    “I’m just going to de nile to catch some fish”

    72

    • #
      Annie

      I just had to give you a green thumb there GeeAye :)

      50

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Really? I simply ignored him as I passed on by… at least pat is worth reading.

        50

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        I wanted to give a green for that, but I went and checked his previous 11 comments and they were all vacant or strangely disconnected.

        The policy is that a green tick can only be given where previous comments have been constructive.

        Still wanting to give a green ticket despite the policy statement I looked back at some previous research;

        “A thorough analysis of the comments was attempted in order to assess the truthfulness, or otherwise.

        The nominal assessment being to deterine impact on the blog and clearly the end point anticipated by the assessment must be defined according to its charter.

        But that is only true if the precursor of the anticipated end state is accurately predicted prior to the enactment of the process under assessment.

        Should that mid process data not be available then the initial baseline would be eliminated from the assessment resulting in substantial disconfirmation of the proposed analytical pathway and complete collapse of this important project.

        Unfortunately the data was so badly homogenised during transfer to the computer that final analysis was impossible”.

        Eventually I just had to follow the policy.

        KK

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    pat

    A MUST-WATCH VIDEO:

    Youtube: 5min02sec: 13 Sept: Russia Today: Is green-socialist ideology destroying Germany?
    A dramatic reduction in carbon emissions and more energy from renewable sources. That’s what Angela Merkel wants for the future. And she’s outlined Germany’s targets in front of car bosses at a major motor show.
    The Chancellor’s speech came a day after she used a key budget debate to call for more action on climate change.But some experts warn that more regulation could put Europe’s biggest economy in reverse gear.

    If there’s any country that could be the poster-child for a green political agenda – it’s most certainly Germany. It’s a noble pursuit – no doubt – but the green vanguard is learning the hard way – that everything has a price.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6reFswkkZYA

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      pat

      ***a Greens MP “now a chief wind power lobbyist for Germany’s Renewable Energies Association”? blow me down:

      4 Sept: Deutsche Welle: German wind energy stalls amid public resistance and regulatory hurdles
      by Uwe Hessler
      Richter is active in a local pressure group that is protesting the planned extension of the wind farms by another 15 turbines. The group has launched a lawsuit against the plan, claiming the new installations would be built too close to the village of Falkenrehde, situated only 600 meters (656 yards) away, and that the turbines would threaten the red kite raptors breeding in the area.
      Legal actions against German wind energy projects have multiplied in recent years, leading to a dramatic decline in the number of new onshore wind farms…

      All over Germany, only 35 new windmills with a combined output of a mere 290 MW were installed in the first half of 2019 — a decline of more than 80% compared with the same period last year and the lowest total in almost two decades. In 2018, Germany installed wind turbines with a total capacity of 2,800 MW. That in itself was a sharp drop from 2017, when Germany added more than 5,000 MW of wind capacity on land…
      “The situation in the wind power sector is a catastrophe.”

      ***We are facing the slowest buildup of capacity in the past 20 years, while the government at the same time is claiming to fully support and implement the Paris climate goals,” says Reiner Priggen, a former MP of the Greens and ***now a chief wind power lobbyist for Germany’s Renewable Energies Association…READ ALL
      https://www.dw.com/en/german-wind-energy-stalls-amid-public-resistance-and-regulatory-hurdles/a-50280676

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      RickWill

      To have competent people openly stating the obvious in Germany bodes well for other countries that are not yet trashing their manufacturing industry.

      China is now building more than 25% of Daimler’s cars with sales in China booming there (up 10% in 2018) while declining elsewhere. Indian production is also building. Daimler Group employees rose by 10,000 in 2018 but only 2,000 on the increase was in Germany. I am certain this is an accelerating trend.

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    pat

    5 Sept: Local, Germany: Turbulent politics: How wind energy became a divisive issue in Germany
    by Daphne Rosseau, AFP
    More than 600 citizen initiatives have sprung up against the giant intallations, with a district called Saale-Orla even offering 2,000 Euros to anyone taking action to get expert opinions opposing wind farms…

    Ending subsidies
    Market players said the tipping point came in 2016 when Germany amended its Renewable Energy Act.
    After almost two decades of providing subsidies to prop up the nascent sector, Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government decided that the industry was now sufficiently mature and began withdrawing support…

    With 5,000 first generation wind turbines also up for renovation, the stakes are high…

    “We’ve been asking for help for months. I don’t think the government understands that it is destroying an economic ecosystem that is a source of cutting-edge engineering and innovation, that has taken time (AND SUBSIDIES) to create and has made Germany famous,” Yves Rannou, head of the German wind turbine manufacturer Senvion, told AFP.
    The company said last week that it is closing down, as its German revenues, which once represented 60 percent of its revenues, have shrunk to just 20 percent.
    “We are only the tip of the iceberg, the first to get down on our knees, but not the last,” Rannou warned.
    https://www.thelocal.de/20190905/turbulent-politics-how-wind-energy-became-a-divisive-issue-in-germany

    reminder:

    12 Apr: RenewEconomy: Australian wind project owners worried as Senvion faces insolvency
    In Australia, Senvion has installed more than 470MW of wind energy generation, with a further 430MW under construction as at September 2018…
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/australian-wind-project-owners-worried-as-senvion-faces-insolvency-85419/

    16 Sept: REVE: Senvion enters into non-binding exclusivity agreement with Siemens Gamesa
    Senvion announced that it has entered into an exclusivity agreement with Siemens Gamesa to pursue negotiations for the sale of selected Services and Onshore wind power assets in Europe. The agreement was approved unanimously by Senvion’s creditors’ committee. The approval of the insolvency plans by the creditors’ assembly on 11 September enabled this transaction.
    The parties are now entering final negotiations and, if final agreements are reached, expect that the necessary decisions will be taken by the end of September…

    Yves Rannou, CEO of Senvion, said: ‘Today’s announcement means that we are close to finding a safe harbour for a significant part of the business and substantial parts of its employee base. In these difficult circumstances, these are positive news. Looking ahead to the weeks to come, the management team will continue to put all efforts behind finding the best solutions possible for the rest of the business.’…

    The Senvion systems are mainly designed in the major TechCenters in Osterrönfeld and Bangalore and manufactured at its German and Portuguese plants in Bremerhaven, Vagos and Oliveira de Frades as well as in Zory-Warszowice, Poland and Baramati, India…
    https://www.evwind.es/2019/09/16/senvion-enters-into-non-binding-exclusivity-agreement-with-siemens-gamesa/70880

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    pat

    new…but still giving BoM the final words. watch the video:

    VIDEO: 50sec: 17 Sept: ABC: NSW wild weather brings surprise snow to Goulburn and Blue Mountains, and heavy rain for Sydney
    Posted 24 minutes ago
    The east coast of NSW is in for a day of wild weather, with heavy snowfall in some areas causing significant delays on some roads.
    Both directions of the Hume Highway south of Sydney between Goulburn and Sutton Forest are affected by snow, and motorists have been advised to avoid the area.
    The Transport Management Centre said a number of trucks had lost traction on the slippery highway and were blocking lanes.
    Drivers said they have been at a standstill for more than an hour, describing the traffic as “horrendous”…

    But frustratingly, the Bureau of Meteorology said storms forecast for northern NSW would increase the fire risk for crews who continued to battle blazes near Tenterfield, Armidale and Glen Innes.
    “Obviously if we’ve got storms they can bring erratic wind conditions, so you may see lightning strikes result in more fires, and that could be a difficulty for firefighters who are already stretched thin in the north,” forecaster Jordan Notara said.
    “We will see those winds strengthen to around 40 kilometres per hour.”
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-17/snow-falls-in-goulburn-and-blue-mountains/11519302

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  • #
    pat

    R.I.P.

    17 Sept: ABC: Penny Whetton, wife of Senator Janet Rice, climate scientist and transgender woman, dies
    Updated 32 minutes ago
    The wife of Victorian Greens Senator Jane Rice, renowned climate scientist and transgender woman Penny Whetton, has died suddenly, the senator has announced.
    In a post on Facebook, Senator Rice said her partner of almost four decades died “suddenly and apparently peacefully” at their house in Sisters Beach, Tasmania, last Wednesday. She was 61…

    Dr Whetton led the CSIRO’s national climate projections work from 1992 to 2014 and was a lead author of three Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports, including the fourth assessment report which was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007.
    “She was deeply angry about current politics that is hurtling us to avoidable climate crisis, and deeply worried about the damage being done and the future prospects for our precious natural world,” Senator Rice wrote.
    “She was so worried about the coming summer.”…

    Senator Rice said she planned to set up a memorial fund in her wife’s name to fund revegetation and erosion control work at Sisters Beach.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-17/penny-whetton-climate-scientist-and-wife-of-janet-rice-dies/11519308

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  • #
    pat

    ABC finds a hot spot…kind of!

    17 Sept: ABC: WA braces for hot spring weather as blast of early heat hits the Goldfields
    By Irena Ceranic
    It is not just Perth feeling the exceptionally early burst of spring warmth, with central parts of Western Australia sizzling in record-breaking heat this past week.
    On Saturday Kalgoorlie posted six consecutive September days above 30 degrees Celsius for the first time since records began, including a maximum of 36C on Friday.

    Bureau of Meteorology spokesman Neil Bennett said the “unusual” heat smashed the city’s previous record.
    “Previously they’d had three consecutive days as their record for days above 30 and that was September 27, 2014.
    “The reason for [the heat] was a large area of high pressure out over South Australia which was slow moving and dragged down some very warm air from the north-west of the state, so from the Pilbara and the Gascoyne, down in towards the Goldfield’s area.”
    Kalgoorlie’s mean maximum this month is currently 27.2C — well above its long-term average of 22.3C…

    Perth is also experiencing a warm start to spring.
    “At the moment Perth is like much of southern WA — above average. We’re currently sitting [more than] two degrees above average,” Mr Bennett said.
    Last Monday Perth posted its second-highest September temperature since records began, as warm northerly winds pushed the mercury to 33.1C.
    Although it is not unusual for Perth to experience bouts of heat during spring, Monday’s maximum was exceptionally high for the start of the season considering the city’s September average is 20.3C.

    A sign of things to come
    The spring outlook favours a hotter than usual season for Western Australia, which does not bode well for the upcoming fire season.
    “For the spring period in terms of temperatures, we’re expecting them to be generally above average, I don’t think that there is anything on the horizon to suggest anything else,” Mr Bennett said…

    Mr Bennett cautioned people against getting complacent after recent mild summers.
    “I think the real message is that we’ve had two relatively quiet fire seasons but the conditions are there for above-normal fire weather conditions for the summer,” he said…

    A cool shock to the system
    Given the balmy conditions so far this spring, a quick cool change mid-week could be a shock to the system for those living in the southern half of Western Australia.
    The maximum is forecast to plummet to just 17C in Perth on Thursday and range in the low- to mid-teens throughout much of south-west WA.
    “It will seem very cold and there’s a little bit of rain to come as well which is a good thing … the amounts of rain we’re expecting out of it aren’t a huge amount, but some welcome rain nonetheless.”…
    The wintry burst of weather is courtesy of a frontal system which will pass the south on Wednesday.

    “Once the cold front moves through we get into an area of cold air in behind it [on Thursday] and if it’s a fairly deep southerly flow which it is behind this one then the air is coming from a long way south.
    “The temperatures down in our southern oceans are still very low.”
    But the cooler change will be short lived with temperatures bouncing back up by the weekend.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-17/spring-heat-hits-wa/11518224

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  • #
    pat

    17 Sept: ABC: Bushfires could be sparked by gusty storms in tinder-dry southern Queensland, BOM warns
    By Lexy Hamilton-Smith
    Assistant Commissioner Bolger said crews were still focused on a large bushfire which has been burning for more than a week in Sarabah on the Gold Coast.
    “We’ve got around 100 firefighters there today trying to build some containment lines.
    “We’ve actually brought in some chainsaw specialists from Tasmania, New South Wales and even on from New Zealand just to help us get rid of some trees that are still alight,” he said.

    Extra fire crews have been sent into the Darling Downs and Granite Belt, which is still reeling from bushfires that burned through farmland last week, destroying at least four homes in Applethorpe and Stanthorpe.

    ***Police confirmed no charges would be laid after it was discovered the blaze at Stanthorpe was accidentally started by backpackers.
    Police said they were looking into how to make warnings available in multiple languages after the backpackers discarded ash from a fire outdoors during catastrophic fire conditions…

    (SCROLL DOWN)
    The Sarabah fires have already destroyed 11 homes and five businesses, including the historic Binna Burra Lodge.
    ***Police Commissioner Katarina Carroll said arson was suspected and that officers were closing in on the culprits thanks to tip-offs from locals…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-17/queensland-bushfire-dry-storm-lightning/11517754

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    pat

    16 Sept: ABC: Extreme weather wipes a possible $750 million off upcoming WA grain harvest
    WA Country Hour By Belinda Varischetti, Joanna Prendergast and Emma Field
    Two weeks of extreme weather causing ***frost and ***heat damage have wiped $750 million off Western Australia’s upcoming grain harvest, a new report says…
    Key points:
    •Farmers in the Esperance region fear they have lost entire crops to frost this month…

    The biggest falls in yield potential over the past two weeks have occurred in the Esperance port zone, where almost one million tonnes of grain has been lost due to frost.
    Temperatures dipped as low as minus 5.4 degrees at Salmon Gums and in many places the temperature was below zero for more than six hours.
    Steve Rollond, farms at Scaddan and Cascade, said he has never seen such a wide-spread frost, and yesterday he started cutting some of his wheat for hay…
    “It’s a bit heartbreaking.”…

    Rowan Starcevich farms near Salmon Gums, and said while it is a frost-prone area he was shocked at what he saw last week.
    “The plants were completely iced up … if you snapped the stems off they were completely frozen,” he said…

    Beverley farmer and president of the WA Farmers grains section, Duncan Young, said the full extent of the weather damage was yet to be revealed…
    “Because with the heat we’ve had the past couple of weeks, especially in the north, and the severe frost down south — how much that has taken off the estimate is a bit of an unknown.”
    Mr Young said despite the damage many in the grain growing region was still feeling buoyant.
    “While the season hasn’t been as good as last year, coming off such a record crop, I think most growers are fairly happy, these things do happen,” he said.
    “It’s not a disaster by any means — most farmers are going to get a crop and you only have to look over east to see where things aren’t travelling too well.”
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-09-16/giwa-slashes-crop-forecast/11517752

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    • #
      joseph

      . . . . . doesn’t bode well . . . . . .

      40

    • #
      Rupert Ashford

      There’s many that has been predicting the climate variability resulting from the GSM is going to kick in this year and then intensify in 2020, and in the process start knocking out food production. Seems more and more plausible as time goes by…que the gravy train passengers to refute…

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    Zane

    MSM is now using the terminology ” climate catastrophe “. The Green Fuhruer has obviously decreed there must be no letup in the climate blitzkrieg.

    40

  • #
    Greg in NZ

    Beauty and the Beast:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/398955/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-will-meet-us-president-trump-in-new-york-next-week

    Gee, I’ve never thought of Donald as a ‘beauty’ before, but hey, there ya go! Speaking to repeaters at Parliament, President Jacindarella said:
    “‘Obviously, my focus while I’m abroad is representing New Zealand’s interests [yeah right] and when it comes to the United States, that includes our trade interests’… Ms Ardern said the Christchurch Call – a commitment by countries and tech companies to eliminate violent extremist content online – would also be a key focus of her trip to the UN”. And more taxes.

    The hypocritical handshake-photoshoot will be intriguing for ‘body language experts’ next week. Smile!

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      I remember when David Lange told the USA to ‘get lost’ over its nuclear visits, ‘no nukes on our territory thanks’ , signed NZ Gov. Those days are gone.

      30

  • #
    John

    Seems a new strategy from the Green Left headquarters. I’m just reading on facebook that The Conversation is banning/blocking/deleting any climate skeptic comments.

    They don’t tolerate “flat earthers” and they don’t tolerate “climate skeptics”.

    Oh, and their position isn’t at all ideological, but is “100% evidence based”.

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Of course, the evidence is that people who think for themselves might cause doubt in the minds of the true believers.

      KK

      60

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Isn’t that what you want here KK?

        08

        • #
          AndyG55

          Yep, PF, we would really like you to post some empirical evidence for CO2 warming.

          We would be highly amused if your were able to post some evidence of any affect of humans on global climate AT ALL..

          But you are very obviously a staunch skeptic who KNOWS that there isn’t any evidence to back either of these two things.

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  • #
    robert rosicka

    Neil Mitchell is reporting that three coal fired units at Victoriastans biggest generator are off line , anyone else heard anything ?

    20

  • #
    Serp

    And today Flannery is reported as having said we don’t want more dams, Australia’s full of empty dams, we need to tackle the climate whatever-it’s-called-today-thingy.

    40

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