JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks


Advertising


Australian Speakers Agency



GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper



Archives

Books

Weekend Unthreaded

….

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.1/10 (23 votes cast)
Weekend Unthreaded, 9.1 out of 10 based on 23 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/yawlbj6o

326 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Andrew McRae

    Is it Sunday again already?

    Did we ever get video of Jo’s EIKE presentation?

    90

    • #
      RickWill

      Have not seen the EIKE yet. This one from GWPF popped up on my recommended viewing (clearly google has me labelled a skeptic):
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYHX-Ib3Q5Q

      The voltage collapse shown by connecting unsynchronised generators does not work as shown. If they are not synchronised one will trip on fault almost immediately or they will rapidly reach synchronism through one slowing and the other speeding up.

      Reduced frequency causes iron circuits in transformers and motors to saturate and their losses increase, which can cause overheating and damaging harmonics. Old style synchronous clocks also run slow if the frequency is down.

      110

      • #
        RickWill

        Actually the graph that Jo presents on the Australia per capita GDP is new to me and illuminating. I see financial journalists speculating on 2019 and this one chart demonstrates why things will be worse in 2019. Cost of power has become a huge drag on the economy. The wasted capital is staggering.

        140

        • #
          C. Paul Barreira

          It is Frederic Bastiat’s broken window fallacy gone mad, utterly out of control.

          On the rampant irresponsibility of elites, we should quote Eric Worrall (on WUWT), a day or two ago, regarding an experiment directed from Harvard University to ‘Block Sunlight, to Prevent Global Warming’:

          Given the horrendous track record of green political irresponsibility, it is reasonable to be concerned about the harm geoengineers and their green political sponsors may cause, if one of their over enthusiastic sunlight blocking experiments goes awry.

          Little more to say, really, except to note:

          “Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad.”

          (Longfellow, in 1875).

          50

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        Thanks for the link.

        Priceless quote [24:30] :

        “The best thing you can get in a system is a brown coal plant that’s 30 years old. That is just a gift from the last generation who paid it off. So what is Australia doing with those? We blow them up.”
        (Audience laughs)
        “I’m glad our grid is good for laughs. It’s got to be good for something.”

        200

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        ‘Reduced frequency causes iron circuits in transformers and motors to saturate and their losses increase..’ exactly, that why these things arent good for the grid. Power should be fed only from properly synchronized generators.

        70

      • #
        Mickey Reno

        Thanks for the link. The GWPF speech was brilliant, with just about the perfect amount of pithiness. Congratulations.

        Ratepayers everywhere should watch it, but especially your fellow Aussies. God how can they send such dolts to Canberra who smile and nod at this slo-mo train wreck that they’re perpetrating on your energy grid.

        30

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mxf_2UncAw&feature=youtu.be

        seems to be the same thing. Courtesy of R. de Haan on Chiefio.

        00

    • #
      sophocles

      The great takeaway line from Jo’s video:

      Blackouts: Perfect for wood fired telescopes.

      Good grief, I’ve got to get my telescope properly set up. NZ is bound to follow Aus soon, so I haven’t got much time. Thanks for the warning, Jo! :-)

      100

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    There is a lesson from Paris.

    No matter what the cause of “climate change”, no matter what the magnitude and direction
    of natural, or man enhanced, changes in temperature, continued prosperity is essential to mitigating the damage.
    Recovering from nature’s fury, and coping with the everyday stress of normal seasonal variation, takes resources.
    Governments generally allocate resources less well than a free market. A tax burden overall of 46 per cent probably prevents the economic growth necessary to increase the asset base, while misguided government “investments” and bad allocation decisions make problems more severe.

    The rich can worry about a hundred years from now. The Northern hemisphere’s poor worry about staying warm this winter.

    The extreme mode of getting the attention of government is pitchforks in the streets. Not a first for Paris, and well deserved.
    This is the “Paris accord” that no rational nation would sign on to.

    411

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      If you really wanted to be a naturist, and let nature take its course. Let the world warm up, and let the consequences fall where they may. It’s nature after all. Are humans not part of nature?

      261

    • #
      yarpos

      There is a , dare i say it, a model of human behavior called Maslows Hierarchy of Needs. It describes how the things that are important to us become esoteric and fluffy as we become better of.

      To me it describes a lot of first world behaviour as most basic things are are on tap, so now some peoples minds can turn to equalizing outcomes, using the correct pronoun , generalised virtue signalling and being so arrogant they think they control the climate.

      France is a great example of people at different levels pulling in different directions. The surviving the next winter statement is very true.

      The France situation

      180

      • #
        Geoff Sherrington

        Yarpos,
        Unenthusiastically, I have mumbled about Sherrington’s Rule of Renumeration, whereby the income of people offering services varies in proportion with the amount of personal human pain that is reduced. Geoff

        20

    • #
      Greebo

      Recovering from nature’s fury, and coping with the everyday stress of normal seasonal variation, takes resources.

      Never mind, there’s always the Clinton Foundation.

      100

  • #

    For anyone questioning the blame for the Queensland fires.
    Two short newspaper snippets that fit together so well from October 12 1951.
    One make news because it is the BoM announcing Queensland had the first Bush fire free day of the year. After 283 straight days of fire.
    The other mentions a 40 Acre grass fire on that day. The distinction between “grass” and “bush” must have been important.
    https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/118220877

    190

    • #

      Hmm. Reading that again it is not clear who made the claim.

      51

    • #
      Mark M

      “Truly indicating this is a once-a-century kind of event, at even a conservative estimate,” Dr Williamson said.

      Whoa! Wait. What?

      Did carbon (sic) cause the fires last century when it was at ‘safe’ levels? We shall never know from the good doctor.

      Continue …

      “What took place in Queensland, he believes, is entirely consistent with fires in other parts of the world, both in intensity and their links to a changing climate.

      8 dec 2018: From space, the ferocity of Queensland’s bushfires is revealed

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-08/from-space,-the-ferocity-of-queenslands-bushfires-is-revealed/10594662

      Whoa! Wait. What?

      “Entirely consistent”?

      Two men have been arrested for trying to light in bushfire ravaged Queensland, as more than 100 fires continue to burn across the state.

      Nov 30 2018: Queensland bushfire crisis to stretch into a second week

      https://www.sbs.com.au/news/queensland-bushfire-crisis-to-stretch-into-a-second-week

      110

      • #
        Mark M

        Queensland one in 100 year fires Update!

        Queensland bushfires: Palaszczuk blasts land-clearing inquiry “If you want to know what caused those conditions, I’ll give you an answer – it’s called [global warming] … It is only the LNP who could watch Queensland burn and then blame the trees.’

        https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/07/queensland-bushfires-palaszczuk-blasts-morrison-government-over-land-clearing-inquiry?CMP=share_btn_tw

        70

        • #
          el gordo

          At least the Guardian put in the alternative view from a grazier on the ground.

          40

        • #
          Annie

          Heaven preserve us from these green-tinted pollies. What size brains are they endowed with?
          I think it is absolutely evil to ignore the reality of what turns less severe fires into firestorms. It certainly isn’t ‘global warming/climate change. It is the stupidity of not preparing areas around human habitation to cope with Australian land/vegetation/climate realities and allowing proper use by logging sensibly.

          152

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Just wondering if there’s a record of recent fuel reduction burns and more importantly when was the last burn .
          The hills above us were turned into a national park years ago and the fuel load has increased to a situation where next bushfire should be a big one .

          80

          • #
            el gordo

            If the green red tape is holding back hazard reduction burns, because of its huge carbon dioxide footprint, then its a big political issue.

            60

            • #
              Another Ian

              I don’t know about ours but back around the mid 1980′s the NZ Evironment Dept was using real green tale

              30

        • #
          toorightmate

          Last Thursday I drove from Brisbane to Rockhampton and was surprised how green the country was until about Mt Larcom. The firefighters at Mt Larcom and Gracemere did outstanding work.
          Our dunb -*rse premier would not know the meaning of “outstanding” or “work”.

          60

          • #
            Geoff Sherrington

            Oh heck,
            I used to drive that route decades ago and found that it was seldom if ever ‘green’ around Gracemere. Poor soils, I had thought. You get more of the same on the Sarina-Marlborough stretch, occasional patches of green but mostly dirty yellow brown. Geoff.

            20

    • #
      yarpos

      When you have a landmass the size of Europe, a lot of it desert and bush, in a warm tropical region is it a surpriae that there is a fire happening somewhere at any time?

      170

      • #
        el gordo

        I have it on good authority that hunter gatherers in Timor, around 60,000 years ago, smelt and saw bushfire smoke. Australia was only 50 kilometres away in those days so they fashioned a raft and soon came across the largest island in the world.

        50

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Does it have something to do with earlier drought breaking rains in Queensland….for example, the drought broke in California filling the Oreville Dam to disaster levels…
        In both cases, was there a rapid increase in fuel levels after the rain/snow/precipitation in both the US and the Au fires?…things grow rapidly after rain…right?

        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/14/oroville-dam-flooding-california-drought-weather

        60

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        I think the AU continent has had fires starting for a few million years or so since it broke off from Antarctica, and eucalyptus took over as it dried out.

        60

        • #
          el gordo

          That is correct, lightning strikes are irrepressible.

          And I was wrong about the timing of the first Australians, it was recently extended to 65,000 years ago.

          https://www.smh.com.au/technology/aboriginal-archaeological-discovery-in-kakadu-rewrites-the-history-of-australia-20170719-gxe3qy.html

          40

          • #
            toorightmate

            In addition to these climate change – induced lightning strikes, we also have arsonists.
            Arsonists did not exist until nasty climate change arrived and forced those poor souls to deliberately light fires which in some instanced have killed people and have frequently destroyed wildlife and vegetation.

            70

        • #
          Environment Skeptic

          And then in a cosmic millisecond, what remains is converted into explosively flammable juvenile mono-cultures of gum and pine……this is the new era of fires jumping up into the forest canopy, even if that forest is only a few meters high.

          The age of fires on the forest floor under mature gum canopies are a thing of the past.

          30

          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            …forgot to mention

            This once bio diverse continent of Au had slow growing grasses/plants but is now being colonized by thirsty, fast growing weeds.

            And are highly inflammable after seed has set.

            And don’t get me started on how much Glyphosate is sprayed…..another environmental catastrophe.

            The planet is being sterilized at such incredible speed, with pesticide/herbicide/mono-agriculture/mining tailings/dead toxic zones right before our eyes. Got no idea what is going on in the sea considering so much crap goes into it.

            Sad state of affairs.

            74

            • #
              Geoff Sherrington

              Hi ES,
              If you ever get to visit a mine of any significance, you will be impressed by the tiny area of land it has disturbed and more impressed by the way that post-mining restoration has brought things back to near-normal.
              What is it with you guys who start off with a
              Mining is evil” mind before you even evaluate the evidence?
              As with Glyphosate, a product from very clever chemists (I was a chemist) whose adverse effects were tested in many, expensive trials before approval for use. Why do you assume that just because it is a ‘chemical’, it must be harmful?
              Nature has produced far more dangerous chemicals than Man, by a large margin. Some of them, like Taipan venom, are extremely clever. Why not complain to the Gods of Righteousness about fear of snakes? Geoff

              50

              • #
                sophocles

                A UN organisation declared it to be a human carcinogen after attributing one individual’s contraction of a very rare cancer before, during, or after using/handling or just looking at glyphosate.

                Because it’s from the UN, no evidence is required nor offered.

                </sarc>

                40

  • #
    Another Ian

    “President Trump – Getting The Job Done!”

    “Angela Merkel is complaining that President Trump is succeeding at doing exactly what he promised to do, and winning the hearts of Europeans in the process.”

    “Trump has almost destroyed the “New World Order” ”

    https://realclimatescience.com/2018/12/president-trump-getting-the-job-done/

    230

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Another Ian:

      Don’t forget that Macron won the election promising CHANGE. What changes they got resulted in higher taxes and charges and unemployment. Do you wonder why they are rioting.
      And despite ‘our ABC’ there is unrest in Holland, Italy and Spain. Poland, Hungary and Austria have all elected ‘nationalist’ governments recently. The coming cold years should destroy the Global Warming scam completely.

      230

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Sounds eerily familiar…..our mate Obummer….

        https://www.channel4.com/news/obama-change-you-can-believe-in

        40

      • #
        Dennis

        But will Micron now attempt the Methane emissions reduction targeting?

        France is the home of many small farms supplying local districts and given taxpayer funding to survive and keep the tradition going.

        Cull farm animals.

        70

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Lets have a look at the trajectory of whats happened/ing, and think out ahead a bit:

          * We have quite nasty anti-terror laws enacted as a result of 9/11
          * We have many police forces that have become paramilitary forces as a result of 9/11
          * We have had many countries in europe destablized by “fire hose” immigration from reigions incompatible with european values
          * We have MSM, govts and UN pushing the Big Lie about climate change
          * We have the Big Lie requiring people to be bled dry financially via green taxes and forcibly weaned off reliable fossil fuels
          * We have people rioting as the govt is crushing them in green taxes
          * We have America, europe, Australia, UK & Canada under attack internally by greenist/ Communist forces at all levels of society
          * We have what appears to be the internal political will to destroy whole national economies based on the Green Lie.

          Are we actually in an undeclared war?

          141

          • #
            theRealUniverse

            @4 ‘greenist/ Communistfacist forces’, more like.
            And your last question is YES.

            60

          • #
            C. Paul Barreira

            “Are we actually in an undeclared war?”

            Or, having left our origins far behind, is our essentially liberal system eating itself?

            30

          • #
            RAH

            Well it sure looks like some of the French people and others in Belgium and the low countries are declaring war. They have made it clear that they will not be taxed into serfdom in some kind of new world order feudal system without a fight. And in case you haven’t noticed some of the APCs (Armored Personnel Carriers) being used to try and contain the riots have EU flags on them. The real reason for the calls for an “EU Army” should be quite obvious to everyone now.

            Why is Europe always a basket case? A look at the history of the place is one damned war and screw up after another. It is never ending.

            31

          • #
            sophocles

            Gee OS, it took you long enough.

            But it’s only the white people’s and their nations.

            20

      • #
        el gordo

        “Make our planet great again”. Macron

        20

    • #
      RickWill

      This highlights the sad conditions in Australia because this country has globalist majorities in both major parties. I think a Queenslander needs to step up and get Australia back to a strong country where patriotism is appreciated.

      There are three policies that would make a difference in the short term:
      1. Limit all immigration to less than 70,000pa to reduce stress on infrastructure.
      2. Eliminate the RET now to achieve equitable pricing in household energy while exposing ambient based generation to market forces.
      3. Walk away from the Paris accord and any notion of propping up scamming administrators in the UN and corrupt dictatorships around the globe.

      150

  • #
  • #
    TdeF

    From a time when the Royal Society was happy to publish papers showing fossil fuel CO2 vanished quickly from the atmosphere. This was known then as the ‘Suess effect’. As fossil fuel CO2 has no C14, what could have been C14 dilution of 13% was in fact only 2.03%+/-0.15%.

    It means that man made CO2 levels are impossible. The vast oceans suck it all up. QED.

    211

    • #
      Dennis

      And that’s pushing the sharks up and causing them to head for our beaches.

      sarc

      70

      • #
        Mickey Reno

        “And that’s pushing the sharks up and causing them to head for our beaches.”

        You mean, right-handed sharks, don’t you?

        /sarc^2

        https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/12/09/climate-change-is-making-sharks-right-handed/

        40

        • #
          MudCrab

          Careful Mickey, this is actually important research.

          They warmed a tank to 3 degrees higher than ‘current’ and plonks some shark eggs in.

          What happened next was some bollocks about turning left or right to get shark snacks, but this overlooks an important fact.

          Most of the sharks survived.

          Yes, 3 degrees of warming does NOT instantly kill all sharks.

          There you have it. Proof that warming is not going to kill all marine life. Panic over. Cancel Paris. Disband the IPCC.

          61

  • #
    Mark M

    Turns out emitting a trace gas is a truly lousy way of decimating table grapes from the red centre …

    “Farm manager Tony Camera said the harvest was going well and the weather was ideal, although it had been exceptionally hot with temperatures forecast to reach 43 degrees Celsius next week.”

    7 Dec, 2018: Grape harvest in the Red Centre delivers for Christmas grocery shoppers

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-12-07/red-centre-grapes-harvest-near-alice-springs-for-christmas/10588460

    Remember the doomsday global warming CO2 destruction of coffee?

    Glut and price decline undercut price of premium Kenyan coffee

    Unlike last year where the rainfall was above the 10-year average of 170mm, this year scenario has been characterised by low rainfall.

    https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001305305/coffee-glut-cuts-farmers-earnings-to-sh14-5-billion

    Whoa! Wait. What?

    CO2 Emissions Reached an All-Time High in 2018

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/co2-emissions-reached-an-all-time-high-in-2018/

    152

  • #
    joseph

    I came across this a few days ago and thought it was well worth listening to. Good information and very clearly expressed.

    http://prn.fm/infectious-myth-mary-holland-jd-puts-hpv-vaccine-trial/

    61

  • #
    yarpos

    Great articles at Catallaxy and American Thinker about the Poles trolling the Climate Event over there. Providing live music from a colliery band and having jewellery displays with items made of coal. I nice middle finger to those telling them how to live.

    222

  • #
    TdeF

    Also in the UK, an act created initially by the ‘Friends of the Earth’ was ultimately enthusiastically passed. It is a mirror of our own Renewable Energy (Electricity) Act 2000. This is the bite in the RET %, the destroyer of power stations, the enrichment of carpetbaggers, the misery of the poor. The acronyms are different. The evil intent is the same.

    Where we have LGCs and STCs, they have ROCs..

    “A ROC is the green certificate issued for eligible renewable electricity generated within the United Kingdom and supplied to customers in the United Kingdom by a licensed supplier. ROCs are issued by Ofgemto accredited renewable generators (or in the case of generating stations subject to a NFFO (non-fossil fuels obligation), Scottish Renewables Obligation or Northern Ireland NFFO contract, to the nominated electricity supplier).

    At last viewing a ROC cost 45.58 pound ($A80.6) for the right to buy 1Mhwhr. Sound familiar? Exactly the same ripoff, buried in your electricity bills.

    All for a good cause. The greatest government ordered theft in British and Australian history. Approved by both sides of parliament because they never had to introduce a dreaded Carbon Tax.

    201

    • #
      TdeF

      It works the same, your electricity retailer has to buy worthless computer certificates. Nothing in writing. Vapourware. They then double their cost and you pay them. For this you get nothing. However the purveyors of Green electricity get the cash. Not payment for the electricity, itself. Oh, no. That’s extra. You do not have to buy these certificates if you buy wind or solar or hydro power.

      How is this not going to force electricity prices through the roof? How is this not going to force the closure of coal, gas, oil, diesel power?

      251

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        How is it not going to directly kill people through energy poverty?

        Imagine a compant produced something, that in cold weather, caused the slow death of 1000s of people.
        Would there be an outcry? Yes.

        But the govt does it, and its called energy policy…..

        J’Accuse….

        172

        • #
          sophocles

          The UK now routinely has 20,000 plus `surplus winter deaths’ because of energy poverty. The ugly part of it is that this level has become expected. They are inured to it, it’s seen as normal.

          Murderous Barbarians!

          50

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        I think that if they push the prices through the roof, the industrial section will collapse under the weight of prices. No more productivity, finito.

        90

  • #
    Analitik

    While the common French riot over a ridiculous carbon tax on diesel (& denuclearisation, unfettered immigration plus a host of other globalist agenda being foisted upon them), we have logically impaired, scientifically ignorant and mathematically illiterates protesting development of a coal mine that will provide jobs and help industries both here and abroad.

    We are truly deserving of the coming calamity that will afflict our electricity grids

    250

    • #
      AndyG55

      Don’t forget, Adani will also supply reliable electricity to hundreds of thousands of children in India.

      This is what these ignorant little brain-washed twerps are fighting against.

      It is truly SICKENING that they would seek to DENY the children in India that electricity that their own petty childish lives depend on 24/7.

      337

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Its like Ignorance and Stupidity hooked up and had a Green baby, one that never stops crying, soiling itself or develops above the age of two!

        224

        • #
          Just Thinkin'

          I see the ” Red Thumbers ” have been VERY active, but
          don’t offer any comments for their way of thinking…

          Mind you, I am not in the least surprised…

          113

          • #
            Yonniestone

            Those that lack in the sphere of creativity and barely function above abstract thought will or more correctly cannot engage with others that would appear almost alien to themselves.

            At such a base level of evolution the use of a red thumb is akin to bouncing around whooping and brushing dirt in our direction.

            To study their thought processes would be folly as the functions of a Paramecium are already well documented.

            104

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Well, no, that would require actual mental effort….youre dealing with people who can only manage “dog whistle” chants in a demo , and truly believe socialism can work….

            And they say *we’re* delusional?

            104

          • #
            yarpos

            Centrelink is closed

            41

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        AndyG55, my dad used to use the word ‘twerp’ to describe any person who f – d up, and now I’m his age and older (!) I find myself using the same… it’s such a great word.

        Yonniestone – Ignorance and Stupidity had a Green baby and they named s/he/it . . . Twerp.

        Jacindarella’s bureaucrats are in Morocco about to sign a UN ‘compact’ (allegedly non-binding) which will allow anyone from anywhere to choose a developed Western country and – hey presto! – that country has to let them in and pay for them, and their family, and on and on…

        https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/377799/sovereignty-concerns-shroud-nz-s-bid-to-sign-un-migration-pact

        Australia and the USA (and many other countries) have refused to sign on, due to a certain “concern around sovereignty”.

        150

        • #
          Sambar

          But Greg you have to realize, your loverly set of piano keys won the election by comming second, then scavenging the balance of power by siding with the third place getter. I don’t know what your complaining about, clearly the majority of New Zealanders want this stuff to happen. ( I know you get it mate, but for those that don’t ) / sarc.

          60

        • #
          Annie

          It was one of my father’s favourite words too. I use it too.

          51

        • #
          Serp

          Vonnegut defined ‘twerp’ in Deadeye Dick as “a person who bites the bubbles of his farts in the bath”.

          Years before coming across that passage I had heard Arthur Calwell put down a questioner seeking affirmation of the freshly assassinated Bobby Kennedy’s saintliness with the words “Bobby Kennedy was a twister and a twerp”; other than that I’ve nothing to offer than that it is a derisory term which has fallen into disuse –my grandmother would launch it occasionally.

          20

        • #
          sophocles

          Then there is Twerp’s little sister: Twit.

          40

      • #
        Dennis

        Yes, but is India?

        In fact where is North Queensland?

        Which direction from City of Sydney CBD?

        40

    • #
      yarpos

      During our local election here in VIC one of the candidates had a billboard on a touring truck, with a message “Support local jobs , vote for XYZ!” one the truck was a sticker saying “Stop Adani”. Saw this at a servo while the truck driver was filling up with diesel.

      The hypocrisy of it all was delicious.

      101

      • #
        Annie

        What a measure of gullibility! Certainly not seeing the big picture but as seen through green-tinted spectacles.

        52

  • #
    TdeF

    The endless proofs of ‘Climate Change’ appear daily. A bushfire, a flood, even a volcano or the annual sea ice melt in the Arctic.

    However the question is not whether Climate changes, if slowly. That has always happened.

    The only question is whether mankind created the change. The tragedy is that this is assumed. Changes must be man made. Apparently. That is how the Green Blob plays it and the press and the politicians go along for the ride as they force us to pay for windmills no one wants or needs.

    Surely in the Labor dream, all windmills are state owned? In this nightmare, they are all owned by capitalists and we pay for them and then pay again for the electricity and the poor get no exemption.

    In the capitalist dream people are forced to give you their cash so you can get more in a neverending river of money with no risk.

    All to save the planet. From what? After 30 years, what exactly? For those who remember how it started, what has changed? Sea level? Temperature? Food? There are 2.1Billion more people on the planet. All worried about UN Climate Change. Good thing CO2 has gone up.

    220

  • #
    • #
      el gordo

      Bob Tisdale in comments comes up with a Margaret Thatcher quote from her 2002 book STATECRAFT:

      “The doomsters’ favorite subject today is climate change. This has a number of attractions for them. First, the science is extremely obscure so they cannot easily be proved wrong. Second, we all have ideas about the weather: traditionally, the English on first acquaintance talk of little else. Third, since clearly no plan to alter climate could be considered on anything but a global scale, it provides a marvellous excuse for worldwide, supra-national socialism.”

      150

      • #
        yarpos

        The French protesters are lucky they have a Macron in power, not a Thatcher. Strength of will, I mean, not policies obviously :-)

        70

  • #
    robert rosicka

    If anyone was hoping for Morrison to ditch the Paris accord you may be disappointed!

    We have sent 30 delegates to the latest shindig on the climate in Poland , why so many on a junket is anybody’s guess and I’ve now given up on the socialist Libs .

    171

    • #
      Jeff

      Talk about a gravy train, I still am amazed at the number of people most looking for a free handout from taxpayers I guess.

      22,771 registered participants at COP24

      Guinea 406
      Democratic Republic 237
      Poland 211
      Côte d’Ivoire 208
      Indonesia 191
      France 188
      Sudan 172
      Senegal 171
      Congo 164

      120

      • #
        robert rosicka

        One of the thirty who has been on many of these junkets has the first name “Gai” and although I’m unsure of the spelling it amused Rowen Dean .

        61

    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      I hope all of these thirty walked or rowed a boat to get there…

      70

    • #
      el gordo

      Its a junket.

      80

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Malcolm Roberts on the Outsiders program puts the boot into John Howard as the father of the modern green climate movement and regulation in Australia .
    Very compelling including things I never knew about land clearing restrictions and bans that can be traced back directly to Howard and a back door way to reduce emissions for his Kyoto foray .

    131

    • #
      Dennis

      I quite like Malcolm Roberts and what he says but this morning some of his comments were over the top.

      He attributes deindustrialisation to John Howard’s Colaition Government yet the beginning of the end was the signing of the Lima Agreement in 1975 by the Whitlam Labor Government. The Howard Government took office in 1996.

      Land clearing restrictions and bans were part of the “greenhouse gas emissions” strategies carried out to meet the Kyoto Agreement targets. The Howard Government signed the Agreement but would not ratify it. The government said that they would find ways that did not damage economic activity, that were practical and achievable common sense approach. Later the Abbott Government referred to this as “direct action”. I do not agree with farmers not being compensated for land no longer productive land by government order.

      The Howard Government RET was 3 per cent and on a “trial basis” with no plan to increase the target. The Gillard Labor Government increased the RET to 28 per cent and later by agreement from the hostile opposition dominated Senate the RET was reduced to 23 percent. The Senate at the time refused to get rid of the RET.

      The UN IPCC Kyoto Conference in Japan was the breakthrough that really got action against “climate change” started. Delegates to that Conference did not have the advantage of hindsight we have today, and the answers we have to the man-made global warming by carbon dioxide hoax.

      One annoying part of some minor parties is their members bias against both major parties and tendency to take a swipe at those political opponents. Noting that Pauline Hanson of One Nation was charged by the Queensland Electoral Commission, together with an associate, of electoral fraud. After a Queensland Police investigation they were referred to the Director of Public Prosecutions and sent to a court of law. They were found guilty of fraud and sentenced to prison terms, and ordered to repay the taxpayer’s monies One Nation received as a result of the fraud. An appeal was lodged and the prison sentences overturned as being too harsh, but the order to repay was upheld. So PM Howard, Abbott MP and some others are now somewhat disliked in One Nation political circles. But in my view this situation is like taking pot shots at a whistleblower and ignoring the legal process that resulted in conviction.

      90

      • #
        robert rosicka

        They played a you tube vid of Carr talking about and gloating how Howard was behind the strict no clearing laws and also pointed to similar with the Beattie Govt .
        I understand the animosity between the two groups but Roberts does explain he once revered Howard .
        Roberts did sell us out on the small engine legislation so he is no friend of mine .

        20

        • #
          Peter C

          I was also upset when Malcolm Roberts supported the small engine legislation

          I was talking to a lawyer at the IPA 75 Anniversary dinner about 10 days ago. One of his briefs was advising Pauline Hanson about Fraser Annings defection, after he was appointed to the senate vacancy created when Malcolm Roberts failed the citizenship test.

          He said that Roberts is No.1 on the One Nation Senate ticket at the next election and hence is virtually assured of election (this time with a lot more than 12 votes). Pauline got one of the 6 year terms so she will still be there.

          81

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Kyoto was the madness conference they ran up after Rio 92. It had all sorts of ‘things’ to sign. Was literally countries selling their soles to the Devil!

      70

      • #
        C. Paul Barreira

        No wonder good shoes are hard to find.

        40

      • #
        sophocles

        countries selling their soles to the Devil!

        … of course the Devil collects small useless things so soles with many kilometers of wear wouldn’t be terribly useful.
        He apparently likes to collect souls as well. :-)

        20

  • #
  • #
    Greebo

    The Oz is reporting that the French are using tanks to quell protesters in Paris. TANKS! If that is accurate then Macron is truly out of control.

    100

    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      They should be using tanks to take back their cities from the illegals…

      110

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      I was watching the Yellow Jackets / Gilets Jaunes last night on a live YT stream.
      I saw dark blue amphibious APCs with big wheels being used to push barricades off the street.
      Did a search for APCs used by france in Wikipedia and I think I found it. From memory it looked very much like this: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A9hicule_blind%C3%A9_%C3%A0_roues_de_la_Gendarmerie#/media/File:SATORY_9_JANVIER_2014_087.jpg
      That was somewhere between 11:30am and 12:30pm in Paris. When I stopped watching there had been no actual tanks visible on the streets. Just lots of tear gas soccer matches.

      Searching for Tanks used in Paris today only finds articles like this one
      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/armoured-vehicles-to-be-deployed-in-paris-for-yellow-vest-protests-1.3724004
      It names the VBRG specifically, so looks like I got the right one. Not really a tank, but they don’t bother to use their turn indicators either, if you see what I mean.

      70

      • #
        MudCrab

        In relation to the linked photo? Not a tank.

        On the plus side the vehicle in the background IS a tank. M4A1E8 if I observe correctly. (Cast hull, HVSS, 76mm gun)

        11

        • #
          TdeF

          The photo is a reference in a display area like a museum display on a concrete pad which is why there is a tank in the background, nothing to do with Paris today. The photo is dated 9 January 2014.

          00

          • #
            TdeF

            The original article explains that this 7tonne APC was used either as a bulldozer or with a winch, basically because of the Parisian habit of erecting barricades. It is armed with a 7.62mm gun and a grenade launcher but its real purpose is to destroy barricades and protect officers. More armed tractor than tank.

            00

    • #
      TdeF

      APCs are armoured personnel carriers, not tanks. This is misreporting. APCs are relatively safe places for the police against Molotov cocktails and knives, pistols and even slingshots. However they are also fast and lethal. Tanks are useless for crowds. Overkill in every sense. Water cannons are being used.

      If it gets worse, the cities will shut down under Martial law. This will be avoided if possible but the French have a long history of violent massive riots. With tens of thousands of people in tents on the Siene at St. Denis, it is a powder keg. Shops will be boarded and emptied. They know what can happen.

      100

      • #
        Greebo

        APCs are armoured personnel carriers, not tanks.

        Until you are standing in front of one. APCs are armoured, tracked (usually) and heavily armed in the context. Most people unfamiliar with the military would be unlikely to know the difference, unless the tank was an M1 Abrams.

        As for overkill, ANY armoured response to civilian activity qualifies for that description, be it military or police. You are absolutely correct, though, it is a powder keg, and Macron has lit the fuse.

        I have friends in Paris. I sincerely hope they get the hell out.

        61

        • #
          TdeF

          Yes, I understand that. This is also an armed violent crowd, not flag wavers. Tracks and armour mean little except intimidation.

          The police already have body armour and machine guns. A real tank has a huge cannon. That is the essential difference. To bring a 62 tonne Abrams with a 122mm cannon and a 4km range into the centre of a city is a state at war. The only reason to do this is another tank.

          Reporters throw these terms around. For anyone to report that the government has sent in tanks is careless in the extreme.

          40

        • #
          MudCrab

          Until you are standing in front of one. …would be unlikely to know the difference…

          Another failure of the education system. It’s really not that hard.

          The vehicle in question – or at least the ones I have seen footage of – are police vehicles fitted with barricade removal equipment.

          Not a tank.

          20

  • #

    I keep wondering why people believe that renewable power ….. actually works.

    Just during this last week, a thought came to me about just that.

    I AM trained in the electrical field, so I actually thought I had a good handle on all things of an electrical nature. I’m not saying that that made me complacent, but my thinking was that if there is ‘something’ which generated electrical power, then it, well, generated electrical power, and did that fairly constantly.

    So, I was asked to contribute to the site I now do contribute those Posts at, way back in March of 2008. I had no idea what to do, so the site’s owner (Ed) just told me to write about something I knew about, so I settled on electrical power generation, the single most boring thing I could think of, but Ed said to just go ahead and do it.

    I wanted to work out what it would take to replace coal fired power with those two renewables of choice, wind power and solar power, and because the site I contributed at was U.S. based, then I went with replacing U.S. coal fired power with wind and solar, enough to bring emissions down enough to comply with Kyoto 92.

    Easy enough. Just subtract the CO2 reduction, working it out from how much coal was being burned by each power plant, and then replacing that generated electricity with wind and solar. Even then I knew it had to be generated power and not Nameplate, having been electrically trained.

    So, I needed information, the long process of finding as much as I could about it all.

    I noticed something really strange.

    Here I was, electrically trained, way way more than the average person, so I naturally thought (well, knew implicitly from all that training) that electrical power generation was just, well, electrical power generation. They all generated their power whilst ever they were operational, and transmitted that power down the lines and then out of the proverbial ‘hole in the wall’.

    However, (and keep in mind, information in early 2008 was pretty scant when compared to what there is today) after digging around, what I found was that the generated power from wind at first, and then solar, bore no relationship to the Nameplate.

    That relationship of generated (and deliverable, or dispatchable) power to the Nameplate total is the critical thing here. Like the average person ….. NOW, in 2018 (and that’s virtually everybody) I thought (in early 2008) that while ever there was Nameplate, then that was what was being delivered.

    What I found with wind power was that that was not the case. I actually even thought that was an anomaly when I first saw it, so I kept digging with my research, and found more and more cases where it was not the case at all. That generated and deliverable power was nothing even near the Nameplate. It really puzzled me. I wasn’t looking for ‘Opinion’ here from other sites, but actual data from official, and Government recording sites for areas that had wind power and solar power already in place, and the more I found, the more it confirmed it.

    This is what is now called the Capacity Factor.

    I still recall that first time I wrote it down, laboured over it, fretted about it, and then finally hit that Post button at the site. There it was now, forever. I was absolutely certain, even then that I was wrong, and within days, if not hours, I would be shredded and proved wrong, having missed something vital that showed me to be so patently wrong, and that would be the end of me as a ‘blogger’, forever known as that guy who got it soooo wrong.

    It never happened. The more I looked the more I knew I was on the right track and actually correct.

    But at the start, it was hand on heart stuff. Here I was, making a complete fool of myself by publicly posting that wind and then solar could never actually generate their Nameplate on that full time basis I believed, coming from an electrically trained background, knowing that I did not ‘know it all’, but aware that I did know 99% more than the average ‘punter’.

    Now, almost eleven years later, I know all that stuff.

    However, that average ‘punter’ is exactly like I was eleven years ago, only with no knowledge at all about electrical power.

    That’s what came to me during this last week, the returning thought that even I once believed that wind and solar power could deliver their stated power.

    They just see the power coming out of that hole in the wall, and naturally assume that it’s all the same, that electrical power generation is just electrical power generation, no matter where it comes from. So, without that understanding, they can safely just know that wind and solar can easily replace coal fired power.

    UNTIL we break down that belief by informing them en masse, the only way it can be done, the differences between generated power and Nameplate, then that belief will continue. It’s endemic, from that typical average punter, the green renewable supporter, the journalists, the economists who have all the say, the lobbyists, and the politicians, all of them.

    That’s what we are up against.

    Tony.

    330

    • #
      yarpos

      Agree Tony, but then if you just make it capacity (and yes I know you have to start somewhere) they will just say build more of them. The will have no sense of scaling and instability issues.

      They pollies know this I think which is why their soundbites are always along the line of “enough electricity to power x thousand households” They would be surrounded by people who know that is a flat out lie in any practical sense.

      Had look at you site with the trail of aggregate power demand by generation type. That is great stuff. Any thinking person looking at one of those graphs has got to say how the hell do they think this is going to work?

      120

    • #
      TdeF

      The other implicit deceit is capacity factor itself. It is another subtle deceit. Consider you had a set of 10 generators and each worked at the minimum 10% capacity, you would have 1 generator all the time. No. With solar and wind, if one stops, they all stop. The minimum is always zero, no matter how many power stations you have of whatever capacity factor.

      There was a theory that in a big grid like Europe, calm in one place would be balanced by wind elsewhere. England might be becalmed but Germany would experience high winds. Now we know, the weather is uniform across the catchment area. Of course it is obviously true with solar too.

      For coal, the minimum power is whatever you want, when you want it. With intermittents, when you have nothing, you have absolutely nothing and it is outside your control. These are not comparable things.

      120

      • #

        And that Capacity Factor (CF) is something that even I’m still learning about, even though I patently know more about it than 90%, 95%, sorry 97% of the general populace.

        It’s a year round average, and while a good guide, it can be really misleading, something I’m finding out by taking all that daily generation data.

        You can have a good day, like in fact just Friday, two days back, when wind power had a good day. The average CF for the day was 40.7%, and that’s more than 10% higher than the yearly average.

        However, the low point for the day coincided with the maximum power demand at around 5 to 6PM. That low point was still relatively high at 1100MW, and that’s at a CF of 20%, so still relatively good. However, at that low point and with the consumption at its Peak for the day, wind power was only delivering just less than 5% of what was required.

        That situation of the daily low coinciding with the Peak for the day is not just an isolated thing either as it happens fairly regularly, and there have been times in the last twelve weeks when that wind low has coincided with the daily peak, and I have about four of five times when wind has been delivering less than 1.5% of what is required, and as low as 0.4%. Keep in mind also that both versions of solar power, from the power plants and from rooftop solar are both almost back at zero when that evening peak arrives.

        That CF is a guide, and a good one for explanation, but the minute you try and make it as complex as it really is, people’s eyes just glaze over, and you’ve lost them.

        Keep in mind also that if ‘they’ can use averages when it comes to temperatures, then just like them, I can also use averages to explain my points. If they want extra detail, then I can come back with that also, but first, you have to get their attention.

        Tony.

        160

        • #
          tom0mason

          TonyfromOz,
          As wind and solar are the ruination of a well structured electricity grid delivery system in terms of availability and reliability, surely there should be a measurement of Incapacity Factor! and not “Capacity Factor” when using lots of wind and solar?

          10

      • #

        And also, I forgot to add the other point TdeF mentioned, that coal etc can be as high as you want and WHEN you want it.

        The peaks for Coal fired power, natural gas fired power and even hydro power ….. ALWAYS coincide with the peak, They actually can rais and lower their output for when it is needed.

        Not so with wind and solar(s).

        Tony.

        180

        • #
          TdeF

          I would also suggest that because wind is random and solar is predictably useless, especially lunch time solar, they cannot compete with steady power in most applications. Most major processes require steady power, like smelting and much chemical processing and even cooking and manufacture. Even transport. You cannot have your trams stop when the wind stops and the sun goes behind clouds.

          Worse, if the power to a factory goes off for ten minutes every ten minutes, there is no point trying to make anything and the costs are the same but nothing gets done. So you might have an Efficiency factor and a Bugger up factor. So if the power turns off while smelting, you can kiss the factory goodbye.

          Saying the power is on 28% of the time does not mean it is useful. You would rather 10% steady than 28% random.

          80

          • #
            TdeF

            Like Solar and wind, perhaps some other examples of less than 100% capacity factor which are in fact utterly useless

            A rowing eight with seven oarsmen. 84%
            A car with three wheels. 75%
            A one man rowing boat with one oar. 50%
            A helicopter with the main rotor but no tail rotor. 50%
            An aircraft with one wing 50%
            A basketball team with one player 20%
            A solar panel at night 0%

            On a par perhaps with a fly wire door on a submarine or an ashtray on a motorbike. Functional only in the right conditions.

            100

            • #
              yarpos

              “A helicopter with the main rotor but no tail rotor. 50%”

              If it was one that was orginally designed with a tail rotor thats more like zero % or a smoking hole in the ground, unless low altitude/low speed

              10

      • #
        Hanrahan

        I wrote a reply trying to say that but it didn’t read good [like my English :) ] but you did it for me. Thanks.

        60

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘…the differences between generated power and Nameplate …’

      Sir I admit to being an ignorant punter, if you could spell it out in a couple of sentences I’ll take it onboard.

      One question, can a continental bullet train network run on renewables?

      31

      • #
        Dennis

        My understanding with no relevant qualifications is that nameplate is the engineering design rating of theoretical supply output under perfect continuous operating conditions. In other words stamped on the nameplate specifications.

        The applicable average supply rating is agreed between operator and grid operator, and in the example of wind turbines a compliance factor is applied, being the average estimated supply from the site supply comes from over a period of time, the compliance factor.

        And on average wind turbines rate 30-40 per cent of nameplate supply rating.

        30

      • #

        The Nameplate is the design specifications of the actual generator. The generator design from the shaft out to the rotor, and what it is made of, speed of rotation, how many poles etc, magnetic capability, and then the stator, how many windings, their configuration etc. All these specs add up to a total maximum power that the generator can supply.

        Look at this little ‘baby’. (at this link) Note the specs below the image and at the bottom of those specs the reliability, umm, 99.996%. See the Nameplate there up to 1400MVA (or broadly speaking 1400MW)

        That Nameplate is what that generator is capable of just sitting there.

        Now, attach that generator to a multi stage steam turbine, the steam pressuriser, the steam/furnace Unit, the injection of powdered coal and air mix, the coal pulveriser, the loader, and the coal source, (to simplify it) and then ‘fire it up’.

        The generated power is what that generator can deliver over time, eg the nameplate multiplied by time expressed in MegaWattHours. (MWH and its multiples)

        So if it delivers its full Nameplate for ten hours then that is 1400 X 10 or 14000MWH.

        If that output is varied across the day, (as all of them are) then the generated power varies and from that they can then calculate the CF. Generated power versus Nameplate.

        They can do this on a daily basis, or over a yearly basis, (the standard) or across the life of the Unit.

        The generator is off line for maintenance, so it’s back to zero for however many hours it is off line.

        So, the total GENERATED power across the year versus the feasible maximum NAMEPLATE if it was running at that 1400MW for all that time gives you the CF.

        Hope this helps.

        Tony.

        90

        • #

          Forgot to add this, sorry.

          One question, can a continental bullet train network run on renewables?

          Ah, no.

          Your bog standard average bullet train, if it is electric powered, consumes a whole whack of power, which must be always there full stop, no matter what. You will be adding that power to whatever is already at the grid, so you would need added power, so, without a constant and 100% reliable supply, that train would just grind to a halt when the power level dropped below 100%, so it has to be available no question.

          I cannot even begin to imagine the (political) fallout if a bullet train just stopped in the middle of nowhere because power was low.

          Forget the bullet train, this would apply to any and every electrified rail network.

          Tony.

          120

          • #
            el gordo

            Thanks for those comments and its now my firm conviction that the greens will lose votes if Morrison seeks tenders for three new coal fired power stations to run the bullet train network and light up the new satellite cities.

            50

            • #
              Greebo

              Rock, meet hard place…

              Morrison won’t do it though.

              30

            • #
              Andrew McRae

              Three questions then.
              Are these UAH satellite cities or RSS satellite cities?
              Is one city more trendy than another?
              Does one of these satellite cities calibrate its census-taking method by comparing the intermediate result to the city’s growth plan?

              :-D

              50

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘Is one city more trendy than another?’

                Each will have their own character, depending on the environment.

                They will be built by guest workers but occupied by old Australians fleeing capital cities.

                20

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Even “nameplate” isn’t 100% correct. Power stations regularly have a gen-set offline but this can be catered for, no big deal.

      I’m a BIG fan of hydro and I recall being in the Kareeya control room and the operator beaming because they had generated 110% of nameplate for the month. Clearly a rainy month. It’s a cryin’ shame that there is no hydro on the Burdekin. Both Burdekin Falls and the proposed Hell’s Gates are suitable.

      70

    • #
      Robber

      Case in point, the poster child for wind is SA. On Dec 5 & 6 wind generation in SA dropped below 30 MW from a nameplate capacity of 1,900 MW, and an average generation of about 600 MW (the so called average capacity factor). Demand in SA peaks at about 1800 MW, so on paper enough nameplate wind generation capacity to meet 100% of demand. But reliable generators must be on standby to meet 100% of demand, and all they have left in SA is gas and diesel. So 1900 MW investment in wind, and duplicate investment in dispatchable gas/diesel. In fact SA has 3200 MW nameplate capacity of gas/diesel generators. It’s unclear why so many are still listed – are some mothballed?

      60

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        The 2 Torrens power gas fired stations are about to be closed down.
        There is a new station being built with “gas fired engines”, i.e. gas burning diesels. Fast start up (and shut down) suitable for intermittent generation.
        There are a swag of OCGTs running on assorted fuels. They would add to the recorded total but may not be available due to high maintenance.

        40

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Tony, we all wish what we know or have found out since, would have been useful 10 years earlier, but thats human nature.
      Well done!

      60

    • #
      Greebo

      We are up against more than that, Tony. As a boy, I had various ‘toys’ ( didn’t we all ). Quite a few of these involved electricity in some way ( don’t mention blown fuses…). One of these was a donkey engine, with a little dynamo attached ( wound it myself ), with a globe that lit up. This taught me quite a bit, things such as it would NOT drive an electric drill; nor would it electrocute the cat. It taught me that hooking it up in reverse to the mains would a; not run the engine backwards, b; I would have to rewire the little dynamo, and c; how to mend a fuse. The main thing I learnt though was if the water, or the methylated spirits/lighter fluid ran out the thing would not work.

      So, is there an app to teach kids all that? If there was, would they care? No, and no, sadly. They can have anything they want with a swipe.

      80

    • #
      Bobl

      Tony,
      All good except that capacity factor is an annual average, as I’ve pointed out before you can only compare energy sources if they are at the same reliability level. The guaranteed 95% reliable output of solar power with overnight storage is around 3%. Capacity factor being a long time average doesn’t account for variability.

      I wish you would account for that.

      20

      • #
        yarpos

        Sounds like some of the people in my car club, they always want me to do something or other. They appear to have lost the power of doing.

        00

  • #
    Neville manser

    Why is Sir Richard Attenborough so applauded as a great natural scientist? I may be wrong but I would assume most of his shows are filmed by hard working crews in the wild for weeks, months, even longer for the best shots. Most footage would be cut just leaving a few minutes or so.

    Then Attenborough sits in a BBC studio reading aloud the narration. Sometimes of course they fly him to places like the GBR for photo op’s giving an impression he is part of the hard working camera crews. Thus, like Leonardo diCaprio, etc, he is seen as an authority who cannot be refuted.

    122

    • #
      Robert Swan

      You’re thinking of Richard’s brother David. Richard had the good taste to stick to movies. David did do good things in the ’70s and ’80s, and really did go out in the field. Nowadays though, he’s just a voiceover for others’ work. No doubt reading a script on his climate pronouncements too.

      70

      • #
        Peter C

        David Attenborough did his own programs originally and went to some extreme places, such as remote parts of New Guinea in the 1950′s. If the New Guinea tribesmen knew what was going to happen they might have speared him right then and there.

        He has been very influential in bringing the natural world into our homes via the television set. That is the good part.

        The bad part is his current baseless obsession with climate change, where he was doing a lot of harm. I think that is almost over now because his pronouncements have been so extreme that I think even converts think he may have made himself something of a laughing stock.

        120

        • #
          Greebo

          He has been very influential in bringing the natural world into our homes via the television set. That is the good part.

          “Life on Earth” was a brilliant series, which was like rain on a very hot day to people who were starved of anything intelligent on TV back then, me included. I think it’s success went to his head.

          50

          • #
            Robert Swan

            Yep, “Life on Earth” was even better than Kenneth Clark’s “Civilisation” and almost as good as Jacob Bronowski’s “Ascent of Man”. The BBC made some great shows 40 years ago. These days, all their shows grate.

            40

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        I have a lot of his programs on DVD and enjoy them, especially when I’ve done some research and can pick up his booboos. I think that in the hot house of the BBC groupthink infects his script writers.

        40

  • #
    pat

    8 Dec: Breitbart: Trump Weighs in on France Chaos: ‘End Paris Agreement, Return Money Back to the People’
    by Jack Montgomery
    U.S. President Donald Trump has weighed in on the growing chaos in Emmanuel Macron’s France, calling it “very sad” and suggesting it is time the scrap the Paris climate agreement and “return money back to the people in the form of lower taxes”…

    TWEET: Donald J. Trump
    Very sad day & night in Paris. Maybe it’s time to end the ridiculous and extremely expensive Paris Agreement and return money back to the people in the form of lower taxes? The U.S. was way ahead of the curve on that and the only major country where emissions went down last year!
    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/12/08/trump-weighs-in-on-france-chaos-end-paris-agreement-return-money-back-to-the-people/

    7 Dec: Voice of Europe: Anti-globalist yellow vests movement conquers Europe and spreads to fifth country
    by Emma R.
    The yellow vests has moved into its fifth country, Sweden. Starting in France on 17 November, protests of the anti-globalist movement have been seen in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany…
    Now yellow vest demonstrations against the UN Migration Agreement have been announced (LINK) in Sweden on Saturday and Sunday…READ ON
    https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/12/anti-globalist-yellow-vests-movement-conquers-europe-and-spreads-to-fifth-country/

    110

  • #
    pat

    6 Dec: Toronto Sun: Brian Lilley: UN Global Compact for Migration is bad for Canada’s sovereignty, as Scheer says
    All it took to get Canada’s media talking heads to notice the United Nations Global Compact for Migration was for Andrew Scheer to say something about it.
    Then, they started fact checking him.
    A search of CBC’s website showed no coverage from a Canadian point-of-view about the compact until this week. They had some stories about Germany and Austria debating the issue but nothing about Canada.
    Then, Scheer said he was against the compact and a Conservative government would not sign on.
    Suddenly, Canadian media outlets were interested in this international agreement and wanted to fact check Scheer…

    Does Scheer have a point?
    Absolutely — one he explained in his news conference.
    “There’s many examples where agreements and pacts and accords signed onto are used as justifications for rulings in our own courts,” Scheer said.
    On this, he is absolutely correct…READ ON
    https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-un-global-compact-for-migration-is-bad-for-canadas-sovereignty-as-scheer-says

    some like it:

    7 Dec: The Conversation UK: Global Compact for Migration: what is it and why are countries opposing it?
    Authors:
    Marcia Vera Espinoza, Lecturer in Human Geography, Queen Mary University of London
    Leila Hadj-Abdou, Research Fellow Migration Policy Centre, European University Institute
    Leiza Brumat, Research Fellow, Migration Policy Centre, European University Institute
    It is expected to be endorsed by the UN member states in mid-December in an intergovernmental conference in Marrakesh.
    But it is also subject to growing controversy – and the number of countries opposing the pact is increasing almost daily. The Dominican Republic is the latest country to join Australia, Austria, Bulgaria, Israel, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia in refusing to sign the document that they negotiated for 18 months.
    In Belgium, the government was even in danger of collapse over it. Italy and Estonia will not attend the conference. Switzerland, which led the negotiations as a co-facilitator, won’t back the GCM in Marrakesh either, instead delaying the decision until a vote in parliament. The US quit negotiations early on, in December 2017, and was followed by Hungary seven months later…

    Many analysts have recognised that the final text is far from perfect. Yet most agree about the significance of the negotiation for multilateralism and global cooperation…
    http://theconversation.com/global-compact-for-migration-what-is-it-and-why-are-countries-opposing-it-106654

    50

  • #
    pat

    FakeNewsMSM loves this one:

    6 Dec: NBC: Maggie Fox: Migrants don’t bring disease. In fact, they help fight it, report says
    Migration also boosts economies, the new report notes.
    People who oppose immigration often argue that migrants bring disease with them, and that they then become a burden to health systems in their new countries because they’re so sick.
    But that’s not true, a team of experts argued in a new report released Wednesday

    “There is no evidence to show that migrants are spreading disease,” said Dr. Paul Spiegel, who directs the Center for Humanitarian Health at Johns Hopkins School of Public Health…
    “Contrary to the current political narrative portraying migrants as disease carriers who are a blight on society, migrants are an essential part of economic stability in the U.S.,” added Terry McGovern, who heads Columbia University’s Department of Population and Family Health…

    McGovern and Spiegel were among 24 commissioners who worked on a two-year project to analyze whether migration spreads disease and to look into the effects that migrants have on health. The final study, published in the Lancet medical journal, finds that migration benefits economies. It also finds that people are using myths to fight migration…
    https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/migrants-don-t-bring-disease-fact-they-help-fight-it-n944146

    5 Dec: The Lancet: The UCL–Lancet Commission on Migration and Health: the health of a world on the move
    Nowadays, populist discourse demonises thevery same individuals who uphold economies, bolster social services, and contributeto health services in both origin and destination locations. Those in positions ofpolitical and economic power continue to restrict or publicly condemn migration topromote their own interests. Meanwhile nationalist movements assert so-called culturalsovereignty by delineating an us versus them rhetoric, creating a moral emergency…
    FREE DOWNLOAD – REGISTRATION REQUIRED
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)32114-7/fulltext

    10

    • #
      robert rosicka

      From memory the Spanish in the Americas , the British in Australia and quite a few other countries introduced a whole range of diseases with dire consequences for the original inhabitants.

      30

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Migration also boosts economies, the new report notes.

      They may increase a nation’s economy, but so does a riot. They definitely reduce productivity and thus potential wealth of the individual.

      50

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Its a nice day here weather wise so getting out and about we met up with a young man who years ago we helped out in what was a difficult time for him and his brother, talking we found that they’d both done well staying in the same jobs and he was still with his girlfriend (now wife) with the arrival of beautiful little girl.

    We also found out his Mother had passed away after a long battle with cancer and that he has recently been diagnosed with Hodgkin’s Lymphoma.

    A $1.5 trillion per year industry based on a bu$$sh!t hypothesis has been misdirecting money that could have easily been used for a plethora of worthwhile causes including the cure for diseases that indiscriminately target the good and innocent.

    172

    • #
      Yonniestone

      I always have ignored the red thumbs as an inevitable part of the odds in an essentially open system, but in this case for the persons that gave those thumbs let me in all seriousness offer my deepest wishes for bad fortune to come your way for the inexcusable display of soulless cruelty.

      82

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Dont worry…Socialism is a self-fulfilling “curse” upon whose who embrace it…..

        Its a bit like a road that goes off the edge of a cliff…it looks OK until you use it….

        81

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Thanks Steve but I’ll have to have another go, by all means attack me as my virtue is offered willingly but do not offend those that would forgive you through pure of heart, from a deeper sense I view your cowardice for the truth it is.

          30

    • #
      Greebo

      The two ( currently ) miserable souls that have red thumbed you have obviously never watched a loved one die. In my case she died in my arms. But never mind me, those red thumbers are very likely going to be the sort of people who nag you about starving babies in India, or poverty and disease in Africa, while all the while campaigning to keep that particular status quo. After all, if we fixed the Third Worlds’ problems there would be no more heartstrings to tug, and therefore no more reason for their sorry existences.

      41

  • #
    pat

    8 Dec: France24: ‘Yellow Vest’ protests: Nearly 1,400 detained in new day of unrest in France
    French Interior Minister Christophe Castaner said 125,000 demonstrators had taken to the streets across the country, including 10,000 in Paris…
    Paris and other French cities including Bordeaux, Lyon and Toulouse saw significant clashes between protesters and police…
    https://www.france24.com/en/20181208-live-hundreds-detained-paris-france-braces-new-anti-macron-riots

    no numbers for the “peaceful” climate march:

    8 Dec: ABC America: AP: The Latest: Peaceful climate march takes place in Paris
    4:10 p.m.
    A march for the environment is unfolding peacefully in Paris and other cities in France, parallel to the violent “yellow vest” protests that have put much of the city in lockdown.
    The “March for Climate” was a more diverse crowd, with far more women and older people and a handful of children. The “yellow vest” protests are overwhelmingly male, with just a few women for the hundreds of men pouring through the streets.
    A handful of people in yellow vests had joined the quiet march by mid-afternoon. One sign read “No climate justice without fiscal and social justice.”…

    3:55 p.m.
    Clashes have broken out between “yellow vest” protesters and police in the port neighborhood of Marseille, in the south of France.
    An Associated Press journalist saw the fighting break out at midday at the port, one of the city’s main tourist sites.

    1:55 p.m.
    Belgian police are firing tear gas and water cannons at stone-throwing yellow-vested protesters near the country’s government offices and parliament.
    Protesters smashed street signs and traffic lights near a police barricade blocking access to the office of Prime Minister Charles Michel, as they chanted slogans calling on him to resign.
    They threw paving stones, fireworks, flares and other objects at police.
    Brussels police spokeswoman Ilse Van de Keere says around 400 protesters are gathered in the area.
    About 100 have been detained, many for possessing dangerous objects like fireworks or wearing clothing that could be used as protection in clashes with police.
    In the Netherlands, about 100 protesters gathered in a peaceful demonstration outside the Dutch parliament in The Hague. At least two protesters were detained by police in central Amsterdam…

    1:45 p.m.
    Overall police estimate there are about 8,000 yellow vest protesters in Paris on Saturday, down from last week.

    12:50 p.m.
    Belgian police are scuffling with yellow-vested protesters calling for the resignation of Prime Minister Charles Michel as hundreds of marchers try to enter the European quarter of Brussels…
    Walking behind a banner marked “social winter is coming,” the protesters have been chanting “(French President Emmanuel) Macron, Michel resign.”
    The rallies, which started at different locations around the city and converged on the European quarter, have disrupted road and rail traffic.
    Dozens of people were searched at stations.
    Police have warned people to stay away from the area…

    ***11:55 a.m.
    Police are seizing protective equipment from journalists and barring some provincial “yellow vest” protesters from boarding trains to Paris, as part of exceptionally stringent security measures to prevent a repeat of last week’s rioting.
    A group of four protesters who came to Paris from Normandy on Saturday told The Associated Press that they saw people wearing yellow vests turned away at train stations all along their route. They said fellow protesters trying to reach Paris from Toulouse in southern France reported the same problems…
    A national police spokesman said officers stationed at train stations around the country are under orders to verify all passengers and turn away any carrying equipment that could be used to “cause damage to people or property.”
    Three Associated Press journalists had gas masks and protective goggles confiscated by police despite carrying government-issued press cards. The equipment allows journalists to cover violence between police and protesters when tear gas is fired…
    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/latest-belgium-netherlands-expecting-protests-59694724

    20

  • #
    el gordo

    A couple of Antarctic glaciers have been adding mass balance since 2010, its the canary in the coal mine.

    http://www.co2science.org/articles/V21/dec/a2.php

    81

  • #
    pat

    AP piece including how yellow vests were stopped from getting to Paris is in moderation.
    here’s the biggest spin for the “climate march” – if the number the ORGANISERS claim are real, they obviously weren’t stopped:

    8 Dec: France24: ‘Green vests’: Paris climate marchers spot overlap with ‘yellow’ comrades (???)
    (FRANCE 24 with REUTERS and AFP)
    Several thousand people demonstrated in Paris on Saturday in a “March for the Climate” largely overshadowed by violent clashes taking place elsewhere in the French capital. “Yellow vests, green vests, we are all angry”, the Paris crowd chanted.

    An effort to raise the alarm about “the social and climatic emergency”, the march coincided with the United Nations’ COP24 climate conference taking place in the Polish city of Katowice. It was organised by environmental activist groups including Alternatiba and Les Amis de la Terre (Friends of the Earth). Similar marches were slated for more than 120 cities in France including Marseille, Lyon and Bordeaux on Saturday, alongside others around the world.

    The Paris edition of the march saw its route modified at the last minute in order to avoid potential spillover from the Yellow Vest protests that have had the city on tenterhooks for a fourth consecutive Saturday, but organisers rejected authorities’ entreaties to postpone to event. Demonstrators were initially meant to set off from Trocadéro to the Champ-de-Mars, in the shadow of the Eiffel Tower in the west of the city, but the procession was shifted eastward instead. The climate protesters marched from the Place de la Nation to the Place de la République, where speeches and a concert were slated to conclude the proceedings. Organisers said ???25,000 people had arrived on the Place de la République by 4pm.

    All for one and one for all
    “End of the world, end of the month, for us it’s the same battle,” the marchers chanted.

    Some marchers wore the high-visibility garment made iconic over the past three weeks by the so-called Yellow Vest protesters…
    “Social justice is needed for climate conditions to improve. The two battles mustn’t be separated, contrary to what people would want us to believe”, a yellow-vest-clad protester called Alissa told Reuters. “This morning I was at the Saint-Lazare train station alongside railworkers. We were all together. We paper over our differences in the name of more social equality,” the 44-year-old artist added.

    “Everyone can be in favour of the climate, yellow vest or not”, said Emma, a 20-year-old student in sustainable development. “If the Yellow Vests want to march for the climate, that’s even better and we welcome them with pleasure. Without social change, we won’t have climate change. The two battles converge,” she added. “There are people who have an environmental conscience but who, halfway through the month, have nothing left and who tell themselves ‘the important thing is survival and not to protect the climate’.”

    Macron COP out?
    Saturday’s march is part of a wider “Rise for climate” movement, which has mounted citizen marches internationally every month since September in order to escalate pressure on global leaders to take climate-friendly action and to see it through.
    Three years after the adoption of the Paris Climate Agreement during the COP 21 conference held in the city, decision-makers enthusiasm for the deal has waned and concerns have intensified over the world’s ability to stick to the pledge the agreement contained to keep global warming below 2°C through the end of this century.

    In France, President Emmanuel Macron’s climate credibility has earned mixed reviews since his election last year – despite the “Champion of the Earth” prize the United Nations awarded him in September.
    Macron’s eco-cred took another hit this week when his government announced it would abandon his carbon-friendly fuel-tax hikes to appease Yellow Vest protesters, a move environmental activists considered a “retreat”.
    https://www.france24.com/en/20181208-france-environment-green-vests-paris-climate-marche-yellow-comrades-cop24

    20

  • #
    pat

    THIS BELIES THE ORGANISERS’ CLAIM 25,000 ATTENDED THE PARIS CLIMATE MARCH (comment in moderation). WATCH THE VIDEOS:

    Twitter: Kristen Davis, NYT 11h ago
    MarchePourLeClimat / #climatemarch from #Nation to #Republique in #Paris today. Many braved the threat of violence from the #GiletsJaunes to protest #climatechange and support #environment associations and action groups. It was more #Green than #YellowVests
    ***VIDEOS 45sec and 1min10sec SEVERAL HUNDRED PROTESTERS? A FEW GREEN VESTS. ORGANISERS PROVIDING SECURITY FOR SPEAKER IN ***”ANV COP21″ YELLOW VESTS
    https://twitter.com/daviskris10

    SEE COMMENT & REPLY TO COMMENT #67 ON JO’S “THE VAST SOCIAL & POLITICAL EARTHQUAKE…” THREAD RE NYT’S CAGW GUY, VINCENT PICARD, & INFO DURABLE’S ARTICLE ON (VINCENT PICARD, member of the Ecological Association ANV-COOP21). CLEARLY IT IS VINCENT’S ORG.

    FAKENEWSMSM MIGHT AS WELL HAVE ORGANISED THE MARCH THEMSELVES.

    30

    • #
      pat

      JUST NOTICED KRISTEN DAVIS’S SELF-DESCRIPTION ON TWITTER – SHE’S EX-NYT:

      Twitter: Kristen Davis
      Was IT #Innovation Director @ NYTimes International, Now CEO/Founder @ http://CinqC.co , #Google #DNI Assessor & @HeroRATs US Board. #media #disruption #diversity #tech
      Paris-based…

      10

    • #
      Peter C

      I saw a lot more Yellow vests there than Green ones.

      Some of the Yellow vests were wearing Green armbands! I wonder what they were protesting about?

      40

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    A challenge to all the red-thumbers – identify yourselves and actually engage in a form of debate whereby views can be exchanged civilly and usefully.

    You do yourselves no service basically throwing rocks form the side lines, and you look like petulant children…..

    Up to you….

    115

    • #
      Dennis

      They should just GetUp and go

      75

    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      “… you look like petulant children…..”

      Isn’t that exactly what they are? Not chronologically but emotionally?

      63

    • #
      yarpos

      they are empty vessels, its all they have, they wouldnt be able to find the site unless someone set up the favourite for them. Think ofthem like the NPC non playing character in a video game, just circulating , doing the same thing again and again, but adding nothing of substance.

      43

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I actually genuinely feel sorry for them. I think a lot of them are 20 somethings with no real world experience, who are having thier trust hijacked by basically very bad people and being turned into political disposable “zombies”. I think back to my 20s and realized how little i really knew about how the world worked. In some ways, not having Google ( we actually had to go to a library to look stuff up) was useful, as each time we took in knowledge it had to be assessed. These days with govts and NGOs and left wing radical groups acting in concert, pushing all manner of stupud stuff like climate change, SSM, and socialism 24×7 through smart phones, how do you avoid it? One thing I would seriously suggest is to take 1 day per fortnight and go technology free and actually talk to people in pubs etc.

        To all the red thumbers I would say this – Left wing politics is the politics of envy and will cause your country political and social death. Socialism has never worked, and ignores the simple reality that no 2 humans are the same, and that its ok to make a few bucjs and better yourself. Communisi is *not* cool – its core value is genocide and disfunctionality.

        Look at any communist country and be honest and ask yourself if you woukd honstly wamt to live there… Its easy yo hang crap on a western country that gave you electricity, good hospitals and scienxe – it came through capitalism, nit Communism. Communism doesnt mean sharing everything, it means a few at the top have everything and youre poor and miserable…go reasearch what life in the Soviet Union was really like – it sucked. It was grey, cold, miserable and chock full of environmental disasters…..

        My uncle escaped from communist Hungary. Now why would you want to escape a ” worjers paridise”? Bevause it was plain aeful. Anyone who supports socialusm is either naive, or really nasty, there is no other reality…wake up you lot and realize youre be played for fools by some very clever but evil communists who wear suits….

        82

      • #
        AndyG55

        Hey, I LUV my little red thumbs.

        Its an indication I’ve said something to upset the poor little single-brain-cell amoebas.

        And THEY LUV ME ! Don’t you, my little followers. :-)

        72

  • #
    • #
      theRealUniverse

      That (graph) is showing quite well the increase of snow cover same as the one on realclimatescience posted somewhere earlier. Due to the solar downturn and the new grand minimum reproaching. Hope the climate dumbos see it (unlikely) before they freeze the rest all to death with no fuel to burn.

      50

  • #
    Hanrahan

    Marie Antonette – “Let them eat cake”.

    Emmanuelle Macron – “Let them drive Teslas”.

    We live in interesting times.

    80

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      And we know what happened to Marie Antonette….chop chop.

      60

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Spotted at a well known fast food outlet in Canberra – a 6 electric vehicle charging station.

        The more I think about electric cars, the dumber they look….its a bit having wind up clockwork toys…every once and a while you have to get out and wind them up again…

        51

  • #
    el gordo

    A new post over at wuwt on temperatures and if you squint your eyes its possible to see the Gleissberg Minimum 1900-10. Also the hockey stick at the end of the 20th century is discernible.

    https://bobtisdale.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/figure-31.png

    30

  • #
  • #
    pat

    8 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: Katowice brief: Saturday night drama
    Four big oil and gas producers blocked the UN climate talks from welcoming the most influential climate science report in years – and met backlash from a broad range of poor, developing and rich countries. The battle was over two words: “note” or “welcome”.

    Saudi Arabia, the US, Kuwait and Russia wanted the final statement to merely “note” the UN science report on the effects of 1.5C rise in the global temperature. But a call that started with the alliance of small island states pushed to “welcome” the findings.

    The plenary chair’s attempt to find a compromise fell flat, setting the scene for a big political fight when ministers arrive in Katowice next week.
    And that wasn’t the only moment of drama on Saturday. Earlier in the day, Africa stood firm as UN officials tried to finalise a draft of the rules that will govern the Paris Agreement. “You can’t bully Africa, it’s 54 countries,” one negotiator said.
    The change will mean new proposals could come next week.

    Pass the hat
    A number of Latin American and Caribbean countries have flagged interest in hosting the 2019 climate summit, after Brazil dropped out a couple of weeks ago – including Costa Rica, Chile and Guatemala.
    The problem is money, the UN’s climate chief Patricia Espinosa, a former Mexican diplomat, told reporters on Saturday. “Financing of the conference is a challenge, because of the size. It’s really a huge endeavour, and that is what has prevented some final decisions regarding the candidacy.”
    In the absence of a host country, the annual summit would be held at the UN Climate Change headquarters in Bonn, Germany – the site of last year’s event, presided over by Fiji. But it would be a big ask for the German government, which largely funded Cop23 and has signalled it can’t do it every year, Espinosa said…

    ***People not pandas
    To ramp up the pressure for climate action, WWF is replacing its panda logo with the faces of human beings for the duration of the UN summit.
    Politicians, journalists, celebrities, activists and everyday people will adorn the black and white icon, hammering David Attenborough’s message that human civilization stands on the verge of collapse.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/12/08/katowice-brief-saturday-night-drama/

    30

  • #
    pat

    8 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: Climate science on 1.5C erased at UN talks as US and Saudis step in
    In a moment of drama in Poland, countries closed ranks against a push by oil producers to water down recognition of the UN’s report on the impacts of 1.5C warming
    By Sara Stefanini and Karl Mathiesen
    Four big oil and gas producers blocked UN climate talks from welcoming the most influential climate science report in years, as a meeting in Poland descended into acrimony on Saturday.
    By failing to reach agreement after two and half hours of emotional negotiations, delegates in Katowice set the scene for a political fight next week over the importance of the UN’s landmark scientific report on the effects of a 1.5C rise in the global temperature.
    The battle, halfway through a fortnight of Cop24 negotiations, was over two words: “note” or “welcome”…

    “This is not a choice between one word and another,” Rueanna Haynes, a delegate for St Kitts and Nevis, told the plenary. “This is us, as the UNFCCC, being in a position to welcome a report that we requested, that we invited [scientists] to prepare. So it seems to me that if there is anything ludicrous about the discussion that is taking place, it is that we in this body are not in a position to welcome the report.”…

    The four opposing countries argued the change was not necessary. Saudi Arabia threatened to block the entire discussion if others pushed to change the single word – and warned that it would disrupt the last stretch of negotiations between ministers next week…

    The US, which raised doubts about the science behind the report before it was finalised, said on Saturday that it would accept wording that noted the IPCC’s findings – while stressing that that “does not imply endorsement” of its contents. Russia said “it is enough just to note it”, rather than welcoming the report, while Kuwait said it was happy with the wording as it stood…

    Wording that welcomes, rather than notes, the 1.5C report should be the bare minimum, Belize negotiator Carlos Fuller told Climate Home News. However, “the oil producing countries recognise that if the international community takes it on board, it means a massive change in the use of fossil fuels”, he said. “From the US point of view, this is the Trump administration saying ‘we do not believe the climate science’.”
    Fuller added: “In my opinion we have won the fight, because the headline tomorrow will be: the UNFCCC cannot agree the IPCC report’, ***and people will say ‘Why, what’s in the report?’ and go and look.”…

    Contentious decisions related to the transparency of reporting emissions and the make up of national climate plans have all been refined, but ultimately kicked to the higher ministerial level. Several observers raised the concern that some unresolved issues may be too technical for ministers to debate with adequate expertise.
    Financial aid is still contentious issue. The rules on how and what developed countries must report on their past and planned funding, and the extent to which emerging economies are urged to do the same, remains largely up for debate.

    In a further moment of drama on Saturday afternoon, Africa stood firm as UN officials tried to finalise a draft of the rules that will govern the deal. Africa’s representative Mohamed Nasr said the continent could not accept the deal as it was presented, forcing the text to be redrafted on the plenary floor…ETC
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/12/08/climate-science-1-5c-erased-un-talks-us-saudis-step/

    30

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    And just to make life interesting…..

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-06/war-russia

    Is the US Deep State fully rogue and is it trying to provoke a war with Russia? Imagine what that will do to fuel and coal prices?

    “At a higher level, by fall 2018, current and former US officials were making nearly unprecedented threats against Moscow. The ambassador to NATO, Kay Bailey Hutchison, threatened to “take out” any Russian missiles she thought violated a 1987 treaty, a step that would certainly risk nuclear war. The secretary of the interior, Ryan Zinke, threatened a naval “blockade” of Russia. In yet another Russophobic outburst, the ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, declared that “lying, cheating and rogue behavior” are a “norm of Russian culture.”

    These may have been outlandish statements by untutored political appointees, but they again inescapably raised the question: Who was making Russia policy in Washington—President Trump, with his avowed policy of “cooperation,” or someone else?”

    31

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Is the US Deep State fully rogue and is it trying to provoke a war with Russia?

      Yes! The swamp-dwellers’ sons don’t fight wars, they profit from them.

      Explains why they are hissed off with Trumps apparent success with NK.

      40

  • #
    pat

    don’t blame us:

    8 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: French senate ‘failed to heed’ UN science warning before protests
    A major climate report in October found shifting to a green economy risked social disruption, but French senators told a scientist they were ‘powerless’ to respond
    By Karl Mathiesen
    Valérie Masson-Delmotte, a French climate scientist and co-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), told Climate Home News’ podcast CopCast (LINK) that members of the senate committee of sustainable development had been “surprised” by findings in a major report in October, which said green policies must be coupled with public consultation or face social resistance.
    “They expressed how difficult it is for them as members of the senate to think on how to implement transitions. They also said they were powerless. They didn’t know how to change things, basically,” said Masson-Delmotte.

    Masson-Delmotte, who spoke to CHN’s podcast at UN climate talks in Poland, said she had met protesters near her home in Paris.
    “It was interesting to understand how much they don’t trust policy makers, how they don’t trust experts,” she said. “What is striking is the inability of the usual democratic representatives, elected people, trade unions – the usual instruments of a democracy – to deal with the situation. There is a lack of dialogue and a lack of perception of representation of a fraction of the population which believes they are trapped when the price of oil goes up and they believe they have no alternative.”

    The IPCC’s special report in October found social barriers to change could be overcome through strong, consultative leadership, “including citizens and allowing for participation for minorities, and having them provide input and endorse it”.
    Masson-Delmotte called for the creation of citizens’ assemblies, borrowing a model created in Ireland, in order for the political class to better understand social anxieties and needs.

    “It’s … tragic to observe when I live and work in France and I see that our country failed to have a sustainable development approach that pays attention to the ones who are most vulnerable to policies,” said Masson-Delmotte. “I think our senators reflect society and maybe the older generation of society, so they have not yet fully understood the implications of climate change and how deep it goes into thinking differently the way we build a new future.”
    France’s standing committee on sustainable development did not respond to a request for comment.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/12/08/french-senate-failed-heed-un-science-warning-protests/

    8 Dec: Politico: France’s fuel tax retreat dismays COP24 climate talks
    The suspension of a fuel tax increase ‘sends a very bad signal,’ warn campaigners.
    By Paola Tamma and Kalina Oroschakoff
    France’s troubles were seized upon by climate skeptics to underline the unpopularity of costly decarbonization efforts.
    U.S. President Donald Trump tweeted…

    “If France is putting a brake on the carbon tax, it puts a brake on energy transition and sends a very bad signal to economies that rely on coal, on fossil fuels, and shows that every nation is just slowing down,” said Pierre Cannet, head of climate and energy policy at WWF France…
    “It is particularly worrisome for global efforts to meet the Paris Agreement,” (IEA) noted…

    Coal “will not disappear. We have to remember about the economic and social costs for the economy,” said Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki…
    Germany, another self-declared climate leader, has also run into decarbonization headwinds. A government commission aiming to figure out how the country should phase out the coal that still generates nearly 40 percent of its power was forced to delay issuing its final report by a couple of months thanks to pushback from coal-using eastern German states…
    https://www.politico.eu/article/france-fuel-tax-retreat-dismays-cop24-climate-change-summit/

    40

    • #
      pat

      Masson-Delmotte the social scientist!

      Wikipedia: Valerie Masson-Delmotte is a French climate scientist and Research Director at the French Alternative Energies and Atomic Energy Commission, where she works in the Climate and Environment Sciences Laboratory (LSCE). She uses data from past climates to test models of climate change, and has contributed to several IPCC reports…
      Her research includes water vapour monitoring and combines past climate variability (ice cores, tree rings) with simulations, to address current climate models…
      Masson-Delmotte served on numerous national and international projects including the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). In 2015, she was elected co-chair of Working Group 1 of the IPCC, which works on the physical basis of climate. She was the co-ordinating lead author of the paleoclimate chapter in IPCC AR5. Since 2014, she has been a member of the French Research Strategic Council…
      She was associated with the Nobel Peace Prize 2007 awarded to Al Gore and the IPCC…
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Masson-Delmotte

      20

  • #
    el gordo

    From memory the Tribune has always been a left wing rag, so the recognition of Abbott is a big turn around.

    ‘This week in Canberra, Abbott lobbied for better pay and working conditions for teachers in remote areas, in an effort to combat the current poor quality of education for our indigenous youth.

    ‘While there are still the inevitable anti-Abbotts going against the proposal with shouts of hypocrisy, it’s hard to deny all the good that can come from such a proposal. Not only will it alleviate the conception that teachers are severely underpaid, but it will also bring us significantly closer to the encompassing Australia we hoped to achieve by moving our national celebration from 26 January, earlier this year.’

    The Australian Tribune

    31

  • #
    Salome

    Question for the climatologists.
    Preamble: It is my understanding that we are currently living through the Holocene interglacial, which it itself within the Quaternary Ice Age.
    Question: How do we know whether it’s an interglacial or the end of the ice age? (I mean–do we know now, or do we have to wait until the next glaciation to find out that we were in an interglacial, or the polar thaw, to find out that we weren’t?)

    70

    • #
      Peter C

      It’s the second one!

      50

    • #
      Jeff

      During the 2.5 million year span of the current ice age, numerous glacials, or significant advances of continental ice sheets in North America and Europe, have occurred at intervals of approximately 40,000 to 100,000 years.
      So there have been numerous interglacials so far.
      I wouldn’t be betting on the current interglacial being the last in this ice age.

      “Based on orbital models, the cooling trend initiated about 6,000 years ago will continue for another 23,000 years. Slight changes in the Earth’s orbital parameters might however indicate that, even without any human contribution, there will not be another glacial period for the next 50,000 years.
      It is possible that the current cooling trend may be interrupted by an interstadial in about 60,000 years, with the next glacial maximum reached only in about 100,000 years.”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation#Next_glacial_period

      40

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘How do we know whether it’s an interglacial or the end of the ice age?’

      We know its an interglacial, but the main point of conjecture is can the anthropocene (sic) bring an end to the ice age?

      The answer is no. The fastest way to bring an end to this ice age cycle, which has been around for a few million years, is to reopen the Central American Seaway.

      20

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘The shoaling and eventual closure of the Panama gateway was a key reason for glaciation in the northern hemisphere. As winds in the atmosphere often respond to what is occurring in the ocean below, changes in ocean circulation that developed with the shallowing and closure of the Panama seaway led to warm, moist winds blowing northwards. This fresh water held in the atmosphere was deposited at high latitudes where glaciers and ice sheets could form.’

      Farnsworth and Stone (The Conversation)

      10

  • #
    Hanrahan

    This sounds like something from The Onion but this alarmist took it seriously. Worth reading though :)

    RedCedar
    540 Posts.
    10
    09/12/18
    00:09
    Post #: 36796085

    Attenborough Reveals a long held Secret

    This report has been held secret since early April 2013.
    Penguins are speeding up the breakup of the Antarctic ice shelf.

    Researchers in Antarctica have discovered that colonies of penguins have been eroding the Antarctic ice shelf when leaping out of the water. The worst damage is being caused by Gentoo penguins that are able to leap onto the ice shelfs from deep within the sea.

    This has been going on for millions of years and it has been estimated their scratching and excavations with sharp claws is doing the same sort of damage as rabbits burrowing into sand hills.

    A recent study collecting and recording the depth of and prevalence of penguin gouging has concluded they are causing the Antarctic ice shelf to break up from between .01 and .02 % every hundred years.

    In the long term this may cause sea levels to rise at a faster rate than expected–an increase of 1 mm from 1.6 mm to 1.7 mm.

    Few are aware of this phenomenon and scientists have kept their finding under wraps for many years as they don’t want to cause alarm.

    “The natural world never ceases to amaze me,” said David Attenborough when interviewed in the Galapagos Islands while filming giant turtles.

    But he said he agrees with Nelson Mandela that “we should give these delightful and marvellous birds a break.”

    Should we put up with a sea level rise of 1 mm because these cute birds can’t help themselves or should we relocate the offending colonies for the sake of the all life forms in the world.

    If you have read this far you may be wondering what is going on here. Yes this is how groups like WUWT operate.

    They appear legitimate and have important and credentialed people making points. But as most know its fake news and a ploy used every day in climate forums to deflect discussion from real issues.

    11

  • #
    pat

    back to Valerie Masson-Delmotte – neither she, nor the Greens, nor not-for-profit, well-funded ESRI – seems to be warning Ireland of social upheaval if the carbon tax increases to 470 Euros per ton!

    22 Nov: Irish Independent: Taxpayer to be hit with €100m bill for failure to act on climate change
    by Paul Melia
    The State faces paying a €100m bill in just over two years’ time for failing to meet legally binding climate change targets.
    Failure to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by a 2020 deadline is expected to incur a bill ranging from €6m to €13m, while a shortfall in achieving renewable energy targets could cost up to €90m…

    Analysis published by the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland suggests we will achieve between 12.7pc and 13.9pc of our 16pc renewable energy target by 2020 which in a “worst case” scenario will involved the purchase of renewable credits at a cost of some €90m or more.
    The State also risks being hit with fines by the European Commission…

    The carbon tax, levied on fossil fuels, currently stands at €20 a tonne and needs to rise to discourage investment in climate-polluting technologies. The ***ESRI (Economic and Social Research Institute) says unless other policies are implemented, ***it will have to increase to between €300 and €470*** to meet 2030 targets.
    Green Party leader Eamon Ryan told the Dáil a trajectory needed to be set, and the tax should double in 2020 and increase in annual €5 increments out to 2030 which would give people certainly…
    It comes as the Dáil Climate Action committee was told that emissions will have to halve globally by 2030 to limit average global temperature rises to no more than 1.5C.

    ***Professor Valérie Masson-Delmotte, from the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, said limiting global warming to 1.5C was “not impossible” but that “rapid changes on an unprecedented scale” were needed.
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/taxpayer-to-be-hit-with-100m-bill-for-failure-to-act-on-climate-change-37553986.html

    Wikipedia: The Economic and Social Research Institute is an independent research institute founded in 1960 to provide evidence-based research used to inform public policy debate and decision-making. The research of the Institute focuses on the areas of sustainable economic growth and social progress. Alan Barrett is the Director of the Institute…
    The U.S.-based Ford Foundation provided seed funding to establish the Economic Research Institute in 1960. In 1966 the remit of the Institute was expanded to include social research and the name changed to Economic and Social Research Institute…
    The institute makes significant contributions across its 12 designated areas of research: macroeconomics; internationalisation and competitiveness; energy and environment ETC…

    Funding
    The Institute receives an annual government grant-in-aid to support the public good elements of the Institute’s activities. Other funding comes from:
    • Major research programme agreements with government departments and state agencies;
    • Specific research projects commissioned by government departments, state agencies and international bodies such as the European Commission;
    • Membership subscriptions;
    • Sale of publications;
    • Sponsorship by Irish business.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_and_Social_Research_Institute

    40

    • #
      pat

      ***ESRI is thinking about the “disadvantaged”, kind of! on what planet do these people live?

      20 Nov: Irish Times: Massive hike in carbon tax needed if Ireland to meet targets – ESRI
      Latest figures suggest per capita emissions in Ireland are close to five tonnes of CO2 a year – which translates to each citizen paying €100 a year based on the current carbon tax rate
      by Kevin O’Sullivan
      new computational model developed by the institute that factors in economic data, environmental trends and energy consumption, has found carbon tax on fossil fuels will need to increase to €300 per tonne of carbon dioxide emitted over the coming decade to avoid substantial fines in the form of compliance costs.
      The current rate of €20 per tonne was not increased in the budget as had been widely anticipated, although Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and Minister for Climate Action Richard Bruton have confirmed it is set to increase in coming years.

      A rise to €30 a tonne as was envisaged would have added about €1 to a bag of coal and about 25 cent to a bale of briquettes, as well as increasing the price of oil and gas.
      However, a €300 carbon tax would only be sufficient to enable Ireland to meet its targets if there were reductions in agricultural emissions in particular (currently accounting for a third of Ireland’s emissions), the ESRI analysis shows.

      If there was no reduction in carbon emissions arising from farming, a carbon tax rate of €470 per tonne by 2030 would be necessary, research officer Dr Kelly de Bruin confirmed at an ESRI briefing to launch its new Ireland Environment, Energy and Economy model (I3E)…

      Dr Kelly de Bruin accepted the necessary level of carbon tax “seems insane” but international research would confirm this is what’s required – although Ireland has unique circumstances compared to other EU countries…
      That said, she did not think we would see a €400 per tonne carbon tax “anytime soon”. There was a lot of misconception about carbon tax, however, in that people feel it’s already very high. ***“Carbon tax needs better marketing,” she suggested.

      ***The ESRI has done separate analysis on “compensation mechanisms” through the use of social welfare to cushion the effects of the tax on the disadvantaged.

      Ireland faces the most stringent reductions in emissions of any member state in what are known as “Non-Emissions Trading System” sectors which includes transport; agriculture, waste, services and government, Dr Kelly said. The EU Emissions Trading System applies mainly to large-scale industrial facilities and the aviation sector, which are heavy carbon polluters.

      Non-ETS emissions in Ireland must be reduced by 20 per cent on 2005 levels by 2020, but the EPA estimates the overall reduction will be 1 per cent at best, due to economic growth and agricultural expansion. The 2030 target is 30 per cent.
      In a scenario where targets are missed, Ireland is facing penalties or having to pay for carbon permits, which amounted to “lost money”, Dr Kelly said.

      The I3E model has been developed to advise on climate policy making and project future greenhouse gas emissions, said ESRI director Alan Barrett. ***Having the new tool was “like welcoming a child into the family”, he added.
      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/massive-hike-in-carbon-tax-needed-if-ireland-to-meet-targets-esri-1.3704655

      20

  • #
    pat

    this poll, claiming only 18 percent now approve of Macron, is being reported by other MSM too, but wanted to show The Sun claiming Macron campaigned
    “to introduce ecological measures in line with the Paris Climate Change agreement”? really!!!

    7 Dec UK Sun: SACRE BRUTES Beleaguered Emmanuel Macron predicts ‘major violence’ across France this weekend as approval rating crashes to record low of 18 per cent
    By Peter Allen in Paris
    Now disgruntled groups from Left and Right, including students and emergency workers, have joined their campaign.
    This has ensured that Mr Macron’s approval rating – his lowest since he took office in 2017 – is now just 18 per cent, according to a new YouGov poll.

    It was conducted the day before Saturday’s riots, with 1006 people making up a representative sample of the French population quizzed.
    The 18 per cent figure represents a drop of three points and the third consecutive decline in three months…

    ???Mr Macron came to power in May 2017 as an independent, pledging to reform the country’s sluggish economy and to introduce ecological measures in line with the Paris Climate Change agreement.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7915541/emmanuel-macron-predicts-violence-france-weekend-approval-rating/

    40

    • #
      sophocles

      Well, Macron has certainly reformed his country’s economy. France’s Treasurer has called the results of the protests `disastrous.’

      00

  • #
    Hanrahan

    Here’s a link to Jo’s GWPF presentation. Sorry if already linked.

    https://youtu.be/JYHX-Ib3Q5Q

    40

    • #
      Peter C

      Thanks Hanrahan,

      It is a shame that the audience was so small, especially given that Jo travelled all that way. Dinner with Matt Ridley at Westminster Palace would have partly made up for the disappointment.

      Jo gave her talk to 10x that number at the Freidman Conference in Sydney in May 2018.

      I will attend the next one in 2019!
      http://www.alsfc.com.au/

      The Australian Taxpayers Association now is a very different beast from what is was two decades ago. The focus has shifted from, how governments collect tax to How They Spend It, and in particular How They Waste It.

      I might add them to my support list, which is difficult because it would mean withdrawing some money from my existing causes.

      60

  • #
    Peter C

    What Goes Around Comes Around
    or You Reap What You Sow.

    I thought I might share this.

    Some might remember that anti Trump comedian, Kathy Griffin, thought it would be a great thing if she did a photo shoot of herself holding a Donald Trump severed head , dripping blood.

    Maybe not! Now she Blames her victim’s tweet response for ruining her career.

    The offending tweet: “Kathy Griffin should be ashamed of herself. My children, especially my 11-year-old son, Barron, are having a hard time with this. Sick!”

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/entertainment/celebrity/kathy-griffin-says-trump-tweet-destroyed-us-career/ar-BBQF8Qb?ocid=spartanntp

    80

  • #
    Another Ian

    Andrew Bolt just now

    “How Turnbull’s Son Became Our Energy Advisor”

    Won’t let me link

    70

  • #
    Hanrahan

    One for our American friends:

    Don’t worry about the world ending today, it’s already tomorrow in NZ and Aus.

    60

  • #
    DonS

    I have little sympathy for the French protesters. Macron did not fall from the sky or come to power as a result of a military coup. He was democratically elected by something like 66% of the population and has every right to implement his mad policies, just as Trump has every right to implement his promised polices.

    Why did they vote for Macron? Did it make them feel good about doing something for the environment? Too lazy to dig into what emission reduction policies actually mean in the real world? So burning some poor buggers car is going to show that Macron something? I suppose it makes them feel good to be doing something? Actually I think Macron would quite like to see every car in France torched, perhaps these protesters are actually environmental activists after all.

    We will be having a Federal election in Australia in few months and both major parties will be taking crackpot emission reduction targets to the electorate, one little bit worse than the other. It looks like we will vote for a 45% reduction target and all feel really good about it, until the fuel, power, food etc… prices go through the roof. Those of us who know these consequence have no power to inform the public about what is coming as 98% of the media, big business and academia are all on board the global warming band wagon.

    I guess I will just have to sit back and watch as my fellow Australians are conned into voting for the feel good policy. I can not help but think that I will not be feeling very good about this coming train wreck and what will follow as a result. Viva democracy!

    80

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Yes Don, ‘feel good policy’ will for a while rule the roost.

      But let’s be frank and ask the right question: Why is the AGW ideology so dominating in the Greens, Labor and the Liberal parties ?

      Part of the reason has to lie in the simple fact that the rejection of AGW is identified with old farts from the past who are also committed to a variety of other causes like preserving a ‘Christian’ Australia or strong links with the UK monarchy.

      An example ? Why Abbott himself our former glorious PM who awarded the doddery Duke of Edinburgh some new Australian gong for no reason anyone could fathom.. Nobody elected Abbott with that cause in mind in 2013. And that is just one among many of Abbott’s idiosyncratic causes.

      If a major Australian party had a leadership who reflect modern Australia And had the balls to tell then Australia people the truth about the Greenist alarmist bull, I think it would be supported by the voters.

      I suspect that can only come within the Liberal party.

      But whoever it is would also need to suppress the rank opportunists within the Liberal party ranks own ranks. And there are plenty of those. Including Jamie Briggs the former member for Mayo ( my own part of Australia) who is now pushing for the privatisation of all visa processing while being a major shareholder of the company which is in line to benefit from the tender. And while simultaneously being the chairman of ScoMo’s own Liberal party branch… Ohhhh Dear ?

      Turning to Macron : France has it own democratic/revolutionary tradition. I can think of times in French history since 1789, when revolution by the people destroyed governments. The most recent was in 1968 when De Gaulle the acknowledged here of France was forced from his throne… On that occasion they allowed him a grace period of a year and he then quietly retired and a new bloke was elected..But revolution it was.

      Macron has cooked his own goose in the same way : by being an elitist arrogant idiot. Supposedly he has 5 years to run. But I suspect either he will quietly ‘retire’ in a little while, or be forced to piss off by the french people.

      50

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Typo Clarifications
        1 : There have been 8 times since 1789 when revolution has forced out governments”
        : And De Gaulle was a Hero ( not a ‘here’).

        10

  • #
    pat

    8 Dec: BBC: Climate change: COP24 fails to adopt key scientific report
    By Matt McGrath
    Attempts to incorporate a key scientific study into global climate talks in Poland have failed.
    The IPCC report on the impacts of a temperature rise of 1.5C, had a significant impact when it was launched last October.
    Scientists and many delegates in Poland were shocked as the US, Saudi Arabia, Russia and Kuwait objected to this meeting “welcoming” the report.
    It was the 2015 climate conference that had commissioned the landmark study…

    The report, launched in Incheon in South Korea, had an immediate impact winning praise from politicians all over the world…
    But negotiators here ran into serious trouble when Saudi Arabia, the US, Russia and Kuwait objected to the conference “welcoming” the document…

    With no consensus, under UN rules the passage of text had to be dropped.
    Many countries expressed frustration and disappointment at the outcome.
    “It’s not about one word or another, it is us being in a position to welcome a report we commissioned in the first place,” said Ruenna Haynes from St Kitts and Nevis.
    “If there is anything ludicrous about the discussion it’s that we can’t welcome the report,” she said to spontaneous applause.

    Scientists and campaigners were also extremely disappointed by the outcome.
    “We are really angry and find it atrocious that some countries dismiss the messages and the consequences that we are facing, by not accepting what is unequivocal and not acting upon it,” said Yamide Dagnet from the World Resources Institute, and a former climate negotiator for the UK…

    “Climate science is not a political football,” said Camilla Born, from climate think tank E3G.
    “All the worlds governments – Saudi included – agreed the 1.5C report and we deserve the truth. Saudi can’t argue with physics, the climate will keep on changing.”…
    “We hope that the rest of the world will rally and we get a decisive response to the report,” said Yamide Dagnet.
    “I sincerely hope that all countries will fight that we don’t leave COP24 having missed a moment of history.”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46496967

    20

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Been stormy and raining on and off all day here , I checked BOM this morning for weather warnings and nothing .
    Just had a massive storm pass through with lots of lightning , heavy rain and strong wind gusts and the thunder is something to behold , checked BOM again and found this .

    http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDV21033.shtml

    30

    • #
      MatrixTransform

      whew, that was close.
      Not long ago Mother in Law had to get off the phone right f%$#@ing now(!!) due to ‘biblical’ storm bearing down in Deniliquin, NSW.
      She must have forgotten to check the Bureau of Meteorology website

      50

      • #
        MatrixTransform

        Deniliquin is just north of Echuca (50km?) in the middle of RR’s map

        50

        • #
          robert rosicka

          That’s about right , I see the cancellation was after 7pm the storm hit here before 10pm and this is the people who can tell the temperature in 100 years to the nearest 100th of a degree .

          60

          • #
            Another Ian

            Up here we’re suspecting that BOM need another colour on their radar display for dust as a couple of red/yellows turned out to be fizzers

            30

            • #
              robert rosicka

              I seen red / yellow on the radar just before noon which is why I checked for warnings .
              No dust in the rain we had .

              20

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Rob, my gut feeling is that Indian Ocean Dipole is swinging back to negative off the North West coast of Australia.. This means more moisture being brought by the jet stream across the continent to the South East regions..

      BOM is forecasting rain on Thursday and one looks at BOM’s Sea surface pressure maps with the 4 day outlook, this is exactly what BOM is showing.

      But I cannot find any BOM report on the IOD as it is now..Only from early October when it was ‘positive’ = cool waters off North Western Australia = dry to drought in South Eastern Australia.

      BOM underfunded ? Or driven by ideology about what gets funded ?

      30

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘The positive IOD event which began in early September has weakened, with the most recent value just below positive thresholds. It is likely that the positive IOD is nearing its end—consistent with model outlooks and the IOD’s natural cycle. The IOD typically has little influence on Australian climate from December to April.’ BoM

        Bill the big weather mover at the moment in SH midlatitude is the loss of intensity in the high pressure belt, which allows tropical low troughs to join up with low pressure from the southern ocean. This is not an anomalous event, more a permanent fixture where a modest El Nino and neutral IOD have no part to play.

        20

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          But Pat, usually in South Australia & Victoria, in Summer we see a build up of continuous high pressure systems moving from West to East across the continent with Low pressure systems being forced more South so that only Tasmania gets any rain…

          But if there is a negative IOD the 1-2 degree increase in surface water temperature in Indian Ocean off North Western Australia, leads to a huge increase in evaporation..And that extra water vapor is brought South East on the jey strem winds which re always blowing at higher altitudes…

          That body of water vapor if it meets cool air in the SE of Oz, leads to the development of an ( anomalous ) upper atmospheric Low… ( BOM jargon )over what was a hot dry area…And then she buckets and we all praise Hueey and ask him to sned it down more !

          20

  • #
    pat

    9 Dec: Indian Express: COP24 summit: End of week, climate meet left to deal with heated issues
    by Amitabh Sinha
    As the first week of negotiations at the climate change conference drew to a close, most of the contentious issues, including those related climate finance, had remained unresolved and left to be tackled at the ministerial segment starting on Monday…
    The most contentious issues, like finance, increasing of ambition of climate action, and transparency of action, as also several others have been left for the ministers to take the final call on.

    “Some progress has been made. Whatever we could decide on, we have decided. There are close to 90 decisions to be taken. But the important ones have been unresolved. You can expect some fights to happen on these in the ministerial segment. That is where the give and take will also happen. As you know, there is nothing unusual in taking issues to the second week,” a developing country negotiator said…

    The special 1.5 degree report, which has been making global news ever since it was released last month, needs to be acknowledged and mentioned in the decisions that will be taken at the end of the conference next week, since the request for the report had also come in this form. But there are serious differences within the countries in the manner that this report is mentioned. A number of countries, including some in the developing world, do not want a very prominent mention of the report, uncomfortable as they are with the idea of mainstreaming the 1.5 degree target, which might get translated into calls for more urgent and wider action on climate change from all countries…

    The report has been extensively discussed at the Katowice meetings, with IPCC briefing the negotiators on the different aspects several times. As a result, the IPCC has had a much greater involvement in this year’s conference as compared to previous years.

    And yet, some countries want the matter to end with just an acknowledgement of the report in the final outcomes of this conference, while some others are in favour of showing intention to act on the report.
    “It is important to provide proper space to IPCC report (on 1.5 degree) during this conference… It is important that the discussion on the IPCC report is properly accounted for,” the conference president Michal Kurtyka said.

    Patricia Espinosa, the executive secretary of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), said the 1.5 degree report had been very well received globally, and therefore, she hoped that it will get the importance that it deseverd.
    “I certainly hope that we will be able to have the willingness (and) agreement in welcoming and highlighting the importance of this report. What I have realised in my travels across the world is that the IPCC 1.5 report has made and incredible impact on the people. One very important contribution of this report has been that it has put the focus firmly on the 1.5 degree goal,” Espinosa said.
    https://indianexpress.com/article/world/cop24-summit-end-of-week-climate-meet-left-to-deal-with-heated-issues-5484938/

    30

  • #
    pat

    9 Dec: TimesOfIndia: Climate finance is sticky point at COP24 summit
    by Manka Behi
    Katowice (Poland): Climate finance is emanating to be the bobone of contention in the developed versus developing scrimmage at the 24th session of the Conference of the Parties (COP24) being held here. On Saturday, the last day of the technical phase of negotiations, discussions on climate finance came to a standstill, with countries “not being able to reach consensus” on various aspects…

    “Instead of agreeing to submit information on how much money (they?) will provide, the developed world is demanding developing countries to put money on the table. Developed countries are also blocking progress on how to transparently count the money they are obligated to give,” says Harjeet Singh, global lead on climate change at ActionAid International…

    What the developing countries want from COP24 is the reassurance that they will receive the money developed countries committed to provide, in order to implement the Paris Agreement at home.
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/nagpur/climate-finance-is-sticky-point-at-cop24-summit/articleshow/67006913.cms

    30

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    7 Dec: UK Times: Emily Gosden: Power plants given hope over EU ban on subsidies
    Power plant owners that were promised £1 billion in subsidies to help keep the lights on this winter could yet receive the cash despite an EU court ruling that halted the payments, the government has said.
    The government’s “capacity market” scheme, which pays energy companies to guarantee that their power stations are available when needed, was thrown into chaos last month when the European Court of Justice overturned its approval under state aid rules.

    Payments were suspended, casting doubt on whether the plants could be relied upon as needed and whether companies would receive their promised revenues. The government said yesterday that it was working with the European Commission to get state aid approval reinstated and that if successful payments could be made retrospectively…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/power-plants-given-hope-over-eu-ban-on-subsidies-806m988qr?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    30

  • #
    pat

    9 Dec: Accuweather: Live updates: Over 100,000 without power as heavy snow, ice pounds Carolinas and Virginia
    A major, travel-disrupting storm is unleashing snow and ice from Tennessee to North Carolina and Virginia.
    AccuWeather meteorologists say the heaviest snowfall with this storm is expected from the southern Appalachians into the western Piedmont of North Carolina and southern Virginia. Snowfall amounts of 12-18 inches are expected, especially in the mountains of North Carolina with an AccuWeather Local StormMax™ of 24 inches.

    Travel will likely be completely halted in these regions until roads have been cleared.
    Even though the worst of the storm will have passed by Monday, schools may be closed early this week due to poor road conditions…
    https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/live-updates-state-of-emergency-declared-in-north-carolina-ahead-of-massive-winter-storm/70006814

    50

  • #
    pat

    9 Dec: HawthornCaller NZ: Power outages will get worse – and undergrounding not the answer, Vector head says
    Posted by Caroline Biscotti
    Departing Vector chairman Michael Stiassny offered a bleak prediction at his company‘s annual meeting in Auckland.
    “Climate change is here and it is affecting the way storms and weather impacts on our systems,” he told shareholders.
    “Unfortunately, we are going to have more outages as a result.”
    Vector chief executive Simon MacKenzie weighed in that the storm that hit Auckland in April was “one of the worst in decades.” He called it the “hurricane with no name” on the basis that it saw winds that peaked at 215km/h – on a par with Hurricane Florence that hit the south-east US in September.
    The April storm, which saw extended power outages suffered by more than 100,000 Auckland households, was evidence of the rising impact of climate change, MacKenzie said.

    Angry investor Coralie van Camp told the Vector bosses that was no excuse.
    “I know there was a storm, but you‘ve been aware of climate change for a very long time. And it wasn‘t terribly long ago Mr Stiassny that you told us quite arrogantly to prepare for power cuts – and you had batteries at home so you were okay sitting at home watching TV,” she said.

    If UFB fibre could be put underground by Chorus, van Camp said she didn‘t see “why you can‘t increase your undergrounding to protect old areas like Epsom and Remuera from the damage from these storms. You really need to look more closely at security of supply.”
    Vector chief executive Simon MacKenzie said Aucklanders were already well off for undergrounding, relatively speaking. Some 55 per cent of the city‘s power lines were underground and the percentage was increasing as new subdivisions were built with underground cables.
    He said that compared well to 27 per cent in New Zealand as a while, and 35 per cent in Sydney

    But undergrounding existing lines was not necessarily the way to minimise storm damage he said.
    For starters, he said the exercise would cost an estimated $5.5 billion, equating to an increase in the average household‘s line charges component of their power bill from $700 to $1570 per year.
    That would be a tough sell “at a time when everyone‘s not that happy with the cost of electricity as we see from the current electricity price review,” the Vector boss said…

    MacKenzie added that undergrounding has several drawbacks.
    “Repair times are substantially longer for underground, and undergrounding cannot ensure resilience against flooding, earthquakes, volcanic eruption or even trees falling in strong winds and uprooting buried services,” he told the meeting.
    Vector could be better off spending its money on alternative solutions such as “facilitating faster takeup of distributed energy resources such as solar and battery and using real-time network performance data from smart meters and delivering microgrids to serve remote or isolated communities better.”
    He said it was also possible that electric vehicles could be harnessed as mobile power sources during storms.

    In the immediate term, however, Vector was pursuing more low-tech solutions…
    Regulations that stopped lines companies from cutting trees to more than half a metre from a power line had to change, he said. Lines companies had been requesting a change for years, but an MBIE review would not start until 2019, he said.
    Falling trees and branches from the April 10 storm knocked out power to about 100,000 Auckland properties at its peak…
    Worsening Auckland traffic also copped some of the blame for service problems. While emergency services can turn on their sirens and bypass congestion, Vector crews have to sit in traffic, MacKenzie said.
    Vector was also working to improve communication with customers during storms (its outage app froze during the April storms, as well as suffering a data breach. As of today, it‘s still offline)…

    The lines company was also doing “preliminary work with retailers to allow access to meter information, which was one of the main challenges we faced in identifying individual faults as opposed to wider network faults after the April storm,” MacKenzie said.

    Blame was also placed on the Commerce Commission, with the Vector boss claiming that “forecasting errors” around inflation and power demand had led the watchdog to cap the lines company‘s regulated earnings at too low a level – costing it $28m a year, he said.
    MacKenzie also said Vector‘s decision to stop crews working on live power lines – in keeping with new health and safety legislation – had seen it struggle to meet Commerce Commission quality-of-service guidelines, which were based on the lines company‘s historic performance…

    * For MetService, the April storm was a “hurricane with no name” because it was not a hurricane.
    “The storm that caused this event in Auckland did not have the characteristics of a tropical cyclone or hurricane,” GM Meteorological Operations Ramon Oosterkamp says.
    “Records show that at the Manukau Heads observation station, there was a single gust of 213 km/h. Because of its siting and high elevation, wind data from the Manukau Heads station are not considered representative of the Auckland region when the wind is from the northwest direction. At MetService observation stations in the wider Auckland area, during the period of strongest winds on 10 April, maximum gusts were typically 130-160 km/h.”
    Whether it was the worst storm in decades depends on your criteria, the MetService man says. In many areas, stronger gusts have been recorded within the past 10 years.

    In terms of Vector‘s statement that climate change would increase the frequency of severe storms, Oosterkamp pointed the Herald to the Ministry for the Environment‘s “Our atmosphere and climate 2017” report, which states “Projections indicate climate change may alter the occurrence of extreme wind events, with the strength of extreme winds expected to increase over the southern half of the North Island and the South Island, especially east of the Southern Alps.”
    https://hawthorncaller.com/power-outages-will-get-worse-and-undergrounding-not-the-answer-vector-head-says/

    40

  • #
    pat

    final word on the FakeNewsMSM.

    AP’s Frank Jordans (clearly a young CAGW zealot, judging by his twitter page), claims “thousands” marched in Katowice, yet even ClimateHome only claimed a “few hundred”, and that is generous, given the pics I’ve seen on activist twitter pages.

    ClimateHome: ***A few hundred people marched through Katowice to show their support for climate action on Saturday
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/12/08/katowice-brief-saturday-night-drama/

    8 Dec: Time: ***Thousands March for Action on Global Warming at United Nations Climate Talks
    by Frank Jordans, Associated Press
    ***KATOWICE Poland: Thousands of people from around the world marched Saturday through the southern Polish city that’s hosting this year’s U.N. climate talks, demanding that their governments take tougher action to curb global warming.
    “Climate change is the thing that frightens me the most,” said Michal Dabrwoski from Warsaw, who brought his young daughter to the march. “I’m a father and it’s kind of crucial that she will have a decent life.”…

    Similar marches for the environment took place in France on Saturday, ***but those were overshadowed by a larger “yellow vest” protest in Paris staged by people angry over fuel tax increases…

    U.S. President Donald Trump, who has announced he’s pulling the United States out of the agreement, claimed Saturday that “people do not want to pay large sums of money … in order to maybe protect the environment.”
    Economists say the price of curbing climate change is actually far lower than the eventual cost of coping with the catastrophic famines, storms and sea level rises that will happen with a warming climate.
    http://time.com/5474813/poland-protests-demand-action-united-nations-climate-talks/

    WaPo – & who knows how many more MSM outlets – are carrying Frank’s piece.

    at least he admitted the Paris climate march was “overshadowed by a larger “yellow vest” protest in Paris”, proving again the France24 reporting organisers’ 25,000 figure was pure fantasy and France24 would have known it. Paris climate march looked like a thousand at most.

    8 Dec: France24: ‘Green vests’: Paris climate marchers spot overlap with ‘yellow’ comrades
    (FRANCE 24 with REUTERS and AFP)
    Organisers said 25,000 people had arrived on the Place de la République by 4pm…

    ***2,000 is extra-generous:

    RFI France: Around ***2,000 Green Vests have taken to the streets of Paris to protest climate change, as the UN climate conference continues in Poland…
    The march went ahead despite security fears after clashes between police and yellow vest protestors earlier today in the Champs-Elysées area…
    The Yellow Vest protests were sparked by opposition to a fuel tax designed to finance the move over to more renewable energies, so it would seem yellow and green vests are on opposite sides…
    http://en.rfi.fr/environment/20181208-2000-march-paris-protest-climate-change

    THE MSM IS A JOKE.

    30

  • #
    Ian Wilson

    I’ve decided to stick my neck way out and see if my hypothesis is correct.

    http://astroclimateconnection.blogspot.com/2018/12/is-next-big-westerly-wind-burst-on-its.html

    Is the Next Big [Equatorial] Westerly Wind Burst On Its Way [in the Western Pacific Ocean]?

    40

    • #
      Peter C

      Thanks for the prediction.

      I suppose that we will know if your hypothesis is correct before Christmas day.

      30

    • #
      el gordo

      Will the westerly windburst stall El Nino and prevent it reaching threshold conditions?

      Will the WWB lower sea level in the western Pacific for weeks?

      00

  • #
    James Murphy

    Watching the series “Mars“, it is very, very clear which side National Geographic are on.

    Aside from slightly more subtle digs at progress in the ‘fiction’ part of the show, in the ‘present time’ part of the show, they portray the actions of Greenpeace members boarding, or getting within the exclusion zone around arctic oil installations as being heroic, they demonise development, and, in the latest episode, they associate an Anthrax outbreak on the Yamal peninsula in Russia with the presence of Gazprom…

    It would be hypocritical of me to say they should not be allowed to produce whatever rubbish they want to – I don’t have to watch it… but I do feel sorry for anyone who is made to watch it (it is “National Geographic”, so no doubt it’d get a free run in many schools).

    60

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Michael Mann Is Like Ghandi And Thomas Jefferson”

    https://realclimatescience.com/2018/12/michael-mann-is-like-ghandi-and-thomas-jefferson/

    Punch line at the end

    30

  • #
    robert rosicka

    He’s my President oh yeah , France upset at Trumps comments about the riots but the Don is spot on .
    And no the majority of Americans are not upset that Trump pulled out of the Paris agreement if that was true they never would have voted him into power .
    Not many leaders these days care about the battlers and there are far more battlers than green thinking rich .

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-10/french-tell-donald-trump-to-butt-out-of-their-politics/10598850

    21

  • #
    PeterS

    The next couple of years will be very hard for Trump and those who refuse to follow the CAGW scam. Politicly it will be hell for him from now on as the Democrats will step up their efforts to get rid of him. If they succeed it will be full speed ahead with the CAGW scam in the US. If Shorten is PM at the time and it looks like he will be our nation will for once be ahead of the US. Then as things get worse economically it would not be surprising to see the public in the West react in similar ways to the French once they wake up and realise they have been conned in the biggest scam of all time. What happens after that is anyone’s guess but I suspect it won’t be pretty. The modern left is our real enemy of today not the Russians nor the Chinese. However they will not miss a golden opportunity for them to pick up the pieces after the West has collapsed from within like vultures over a dead body. Our only real hope now is for Trump to survive and Shorten not to become our PM. It can only happen if more people realised the leftists amongst us are the real enemy.

    31

    • #
      robert rosicka

      One thing the MSM especially the ABC don’t understand and never will it’s not Trumps America at all , it’s the people’s America and he’s putting them back in charge .

      32

  • #
    Another Ian

    A reading list for Canberra

    “#Giletsjaunes : 8 Grievances ”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/12/04/tips-notices-december-2018/#comment-104977

    Looks like the military is taking notice too

    20

    • #
      Another Ian

      “Marie Antoinette” Macron?

      30

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      An awkward translation Ian but the meaning is very clear. Especially this part which I have translated into clearer English

      :” We want France to…stop accepting the misery of the world because France is already in misery with millions of it’s people living below the poverty line. We want am immigration policy that does not destroy us culturally. We are call for a withdrawal from the UN immigration pact.”

      Dear me ? they reject that France has an obligation to destroy itself to relieve the misery of the world.Good grief. What will they want next ? ” Une France pour Les Francais” perhaps.

      50

  • #
    pat

    TWEET: Val. Masson-Delmotte, French climate scientist at IPSL/LSCE, Paris Saclay; co-chair of IPCC WGI for the AR6.
    I look forward to the seminar scheduled tomorrow on “Safeguarding our Climate, Advancing our Society” at University of Silesia in #Katowice, organised by @CNRS, the Polish Academy of Sciences @ScienceinPoland, and the Pontifical Academy of Sciences
    9 Dec 2018
    (PIC: PROGRAM – INCLUDES Marcelo Sánchez Sorondo, Argentine Catholic bishop, current Chancellor of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences and the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, SCHELLNHUBER/EDENHOFER, MASSON-DELMOTTE, ESPINOZA ETC)
    https://twitter.com/valmasdel/status/1071752960739287040

    00

  • #
    pat

    9 Dec: Breitbart: James Delingpole: UN Climate Conference Wrecked by Revolting French and Trolling Poles
    This hasn’t been much reported by the mainstream media because it doesn’t suit the narrative, but the conference’s Polish hosts have been treating the whole event as a massive trolling exercise. Visiting delegates have been greeted by decorative mounds of the region’s economic speciality: high-grade coal, provided by the conference’s co-sponsors — the local coal industry.

    As Christopher Booker reports in the Sunday Telegraph:

    (excerpt) How beautifully symbolic it was that, when those 22,000 officials, politicians, green lobby groups and others descended on Katowice in Poland for the UN’s latest mammoth climate conference, they should find its exhibition centre decorated with neat stacks of coal and were greeted by a band from local collieries…READ ON
    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/12/09/king-coal-rains-on-un-climate-summits-parade/

    70

  • #
    pat

    ***not the beef caucus! CAGW heads exploding again:

    9 Dec: ClimateChangeNews: Brazil to review Paris Agreement status, says Bolsonaro environment minister
    Ricardo de Aquino Salles, a close ally of farming interests, was named as minister on Sunday, he said the conversation about global warming was ‘secondary’
    By Fabiano Maisonnave in Manaus
    Brazil’s far right president-elect Jair Bolsonaro has picked a staunch ***‘beef caucus’ ally to lead his environment department.
    Ricardo de Aquino Salles, a 43-year-old lawyer, recently won the backing of the ruralists, one of Congress’ most powerful lobby groups.

    In his first interview after the official announcement, the appointed minister told the Folha de S.Paulo newspaper the “discussion whether there is global warming or not is secondary” and “innocuous”.
    Asked if Bolsonaro’s government would abandon the Paris Agreement, Salles said: “Let’s examine carefully the most sensitive points and, once the analysis is over [we will make the decision], remembering that national sovereignty over territory is non-negotiable”.

    Salles ministry does not directly oversee Brazil’s participation in the Paris Agreement, but it works closely with the foreign office on the issue…READ ON FOR THE SMEARS
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/12/09/brazil-review-paris-agreement-status-says-bolsonaro-environment-minister-pick/

    30

  • #
    pat

    TWEET: Ian Austen, New York Times
    It’s not just Saskatchewan’s premier who doesn’t like carbon taxes, the sentiment was widely shared by everyone I spoke with in the province.
    7 Dec 2018
    https://twitter.com/ianrausten/status/1071087271917568001

    9 Dec: UK Independent: Justin Trudeau fights carbon tax backlash from conservatives and liberals over climate change policy
    Critics argue prime minister’s pollution policy is ineffective and hurts ordinary workers
    by Ian Austen, New York Times
    Crews are hard at work these days on the oil rigs that rise above the horizon in south-eastern Saskatchewan. At least for now.
    Dylan Gilliss, the owner of a company that provides workers and equipment for drilling, sees plans by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada to impose carbon taxes on the province as a threat to his business — and to those jobs — as well as a cash grab for the government.
    “It’s going to come on the backs of the men, that’s who’s going to take the brunt of it,” Mr Gilliss said while driving his white pickup truck along a gravel road lined with pump jacks. We’ll do layoffs or we’ll do wage cuts,” he said. “If none of that works, we’ll close the doors. That’s the sad and simple truth.”

    When Mr Trudeau came to office three years ago, combating climate change was near the top of his agenda and putting a price on carbon pollution was his government’s weapon of choice.
    But the Canadian leader’s climate program has increasingly been targeted by critics at both ends of the political spectrum and conservative governments in several provinces have refused to participate, forcing federal intervention. His efforts are likely to become a defining issue when Canadians vote on his government’s re-election next fall…

    Mr Gilliss, whose company Gilliss Casing Services was founded by his father, fears a carbon tax will prompt his customers to drive just 16 miles down the highway in front of his tidy workshop to the United States.
    He characterised Mr Trudeau’s plan as “take, take, take.”
    “It’s a little anti-Trudeau out here as you could very well imagine,” Mr Gilliss said after checking the bad news of oil prices on his computer. “I’ve got one truck parked in the back and one of the guys put a bumper sticker on it that says: If you voted Liberal in last election, you should maybe sit this one out.”
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/justin-trudeau-carbon-tax-canada-climate-change-backlash-paris-agreement-a8674756.html

    30

  • #
  • #
  • #
    Dennis

    Thought for the day from President Donald Trump who was asked why he is opposed to socialism.

    He replied because Americans prefer to walk their dogs.

    40

  • #
    pat

    unnamed delegates/countries were shocked say CAGW zealots!

    10 Dec: Guardian: Australia’s silence during climate change debate ***shocks COP24 delegates
    Country accused of tacitly supporting oil allies’ rejection of the latest science
    by Ben Doherty in Katowice, Poland
    As four of the world’s largest oil and gas producers blocked UN climate talks from “welcoming” a key scientific report on global warming, Australia’s silence during a key debate is being viewed as tacit support for the four oil allies: the US, Saudi Arabia, Russia and Kuwait…

    Negotiators spent two and a half hours trying to hammer out a compromise without success…
    Australia did not speak during the at-times heated debate, a silence noted by many countries on the floor of the conference, Dr Bill Hare, the managing director of Climate Analytics and a lead author on previous IPCC reports, told Guardian Australia.
    “Australia’s silence in the face of this attack yesterday shocked many countries and is widely seen as de facto support for the US, Saudi Arabia, Russia and Kuwait’s refusal to welcome the IPCC report,” Hare said.

    Richie Merzian, climate and energy program director at the Australia Institute, said widespread goodwill across the Katowice talks was being undermined by “a handful of countries” trying to disconnect the science and urgency from the implementation of the Paris agreement.
    “It is disappointing but not surprising that Australia kept its head down during the debate … by remaining silent and not putting a position forward, Australia has tacitly supported the US, Russia and Saudi Arabia’s rejection of the latest science on climate change.”…
    “A number of delegates privately shared their frustration that countries like Australia stood on the sidelines while Trump’s, Putin’s and King Salman’s representatives laid waste to the fundamental climate science.”…

    Hare said the interests of the fossil fuel industry were seeking to thwart the conference’s drive towards larger emissions cuts.
    “The fossil fuel interest – coal, oil and gas – campaign against the IPCC 1.5 report and science continues to play out in the climate talks, but even those countries [opposing welcoming the report] are being hit by the impacts of only one degree of warming.
    “The big challenge now is for the Polish presidency to set aside its obsession with coal, ***get out of the way and allow full acknowledgement of the IPCC 1.5C report, and its implications for increasing the ambition of all countries, in the conclusion of COP24 later this week.”…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/10/australias-silence-during-climate-change-debate-shocks-cop24-delegates

    30

    • #
      Robber

      Where is the evidence that with 1 degree warming since 1850 that the world is a far more terrifying place today?
      World population 1850 1.2 billion, population 7.7.billion.

      51

      • #
        Reed Coray

        Robber: You answered your own question. Many on the left believe a population change from 1.2 billion to 7.7 billion IS the “terrifying” evidence.

        00

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      And meanwhile, back in the Real World, while flying back home from New Zealand at an altitude of just under 11 kilometers, the atmospheric temperature outside was between Minus 56°C and Minus 58°C.

      Compared to the diameter of the Earth, the liveable atmospheric zone is extremely small with the greatest danger being that we will be unable to retain sufficient heat to prevent us from freezing to death.

      That’s the Real Danger:

      Global Energy Depletion in the Atmosphere.

      Why aren’t we addressing this issue?

      KK

      80

  • #
    pat

    Mann has a conspiracy theory (keeps omitting Kuwait, as does a BBC headline on screen. approx. 4min). silly grin on Mann’s face. when asked specifically about Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, whose entire economies are built on fossil fuels, Mann doesn’t care. they have to get on board the “renewable energy” transition blah blah:

    TWEET: Michael E. Mann
    In #HSCW (https://www.amazon.com/Hockey-Stick-Climate-Wars-Dispatches/dp/0231152558 …) I discuss the role that both Russia & Saudi Arabia played in the manufactured “climategate” affair, used to sabotage the 2009 Copenhagen Climate Summit. Interesting that these two actors, along with Trump admin, are working to sabotage #COP24 bit.ly/2BYG0Ib (LINK)
    9 Dec 2018
    https://twitter.com/MichaelEMann/status/1071858962360950785?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Enews%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    50

  • #
    pat

    TWEET: Roger Pielke Jr.
    Much of the climate debate is about authority not policy.
    This tempest in a teacup at #COP24 centers on whether policy makers should “welcome” vs. “take note” of a recent IPCC report.
    Nothing important hinges on these words, yet much outrage is generated.
    LINK BBC/MATT McGRATH
    9 Dec 2018
    https://twitter.com/RogerPielkeJr/status/1071799025060302858?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Enews%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    50

    • #
      PeterS

      Indeed the climate “debate” from the left is ONLY about authority and control over us and never about the facts and the truth of climate change. The left is devoid of any truth and facts yet despite all that much of the public still fall for it. Why? Because they are fed BS at all levels, from kindergarten to Universities, through the MSM and main stream politics (yes including the LNP), by many big businesses because they see profits, and by so many other people who are gullible, clueless and in some cases evil. Make no mistake about it – we are at war and if the CAGW alarmist left wins that war they will have complete authority and control over us that would make past dictators look so childish, and all the predictions made about the so called NWO come true plus a lot more. It can be stopped with people power of the right kind provided it happens soon. I hope the next federal election shows some sign of that occurring. If not then it’s all over.

      62

      • #
        Dennis

        No debate from the left, they say the science is settled so no point.

        lol

        50

        • #
          PeterS

          True the left have been saying for some time now exactly that. They have moved on though. Now it’s not even about the science. It’s axiomatic and anyone who dares to argue even for it let alone against it is disdained and told to be quiet and get with the program of shutting down our coal power plants. It’s really terrorism in another form.

          61

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Good analysis Peter.
        The second half of it is a vital issue to be made known far and wide.
        It’s heartening that the French have begun a push back, sad about the violence.
        The British have initiated a pushback that has been stalled and frustrated by the elites on the Continent and within their own ranks.
        In the USA the Trump effect is an indication of American unhappiness.

        All taken together, it suggests that the peasants have had enough but then the independent state of Victoriastan votes against the stream: they want more punishment. Ain’t the ABC wonderfully effective.

        KK

        60

        • #
          Rollo

          Kinky, it’s true that many parts of the world are starting to push back against climate change and other lefty globalist pursuits. In Australia, however, we are yet to reach peak left. The Aussie peasants will probably start wearing yellow jackets and revolting only after 2 terms of Shorten and another of Andrews, sadly.

          62

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    We did look at Dr Sjearman earlier. Amazing.

    http://joannenova.com.au/2018/11/midweek-unthreaded-49/#comment-2072312

    That someone of his obvious “intelligence” could be drawn into the modern idiom of groupism to expose his shortcomings is little short of amazing.

    It says a lot about human nature.

    KK

    60

  • #
    pat

    all part of the same UN agenda:

    9 Dec: CGTN: COP24 discusses climate refugees ahead of global migration meet
    by Alok Gupta
    Barely two days ahead of a global meeting on migration, a set of recommendations to deal with climate migrants was presented at the ongoing COP24 climate change summit in Katowice, Poland…

    According to estimates, there would be around 25 million to one billion environmental migrants displaced by droughts, floods or loss of livelihood by 2050. These migrants would be moving either within their countries or across borders, on a permanent or temporary basis, with 200 million being the most widely cited figure, International Organization for Migration (IOM) maintains…

    “Climate change migration was more or less absent from discussions until 2010, in Cancún,” Koko Warner, head of the UN Environmental Migration said. “In Paris, five years later, the countries asked for some recommendations on how to better prepare and respond to this phenomenon, and in Katowice, now, we are hoping they will adopt them.”

    The recommendations prepared by the Task Force on Displacement are due for endorsement by the technical delegates of the member states. Next week, they will be presented for adoption at ministry-level.

    The measures to deal with climate migrants vary in size, and their criticality will depend on context, a senior UN official said. Measures include forecast-based financing to enable communities to deal with natural disasters. Focusing on data collection and risk analysis to better map and understand human mobility is part of the recommendation list…
    https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d514d3567544d31457a6333566d54/share_p.html

    60

  • #
    pat

    smile:

    TWEET: Val. Masson-Delmotte, French climate scientist at IPSL/LSCE, Paris Saclay; co-chair of IPCC WGI for the AR6.
    What is so disturbing in our @IPCC_CH #SR15 report (asked by governements at #COP21, and approved by governements at the last IPCC plenary session) that four governments cannot even “welcome” its findings #COP24 @UNFCCC ?
    9 Dec 2018
    (4 RELATED TWEETS BY MASSON-DELMOTTE)

    from replies:
    Arthur Dent
    And renewables are unreliable for baseload generation, just ask the Australians.

    Graham Thompson
    20th century thinking. Smart grids don’t need baseload. And you’re wrong about Australia too.

    Andy Shaw, Co-Founder of comedyunleashed.co.uk, Writer for Spectator Life UK
    Perhaps they don’t want to end up like Macron
    PIC (Paris Yellow Vest protest)
    https://twitter.com/valmasdel/status/1071722289518047232

    if I used Twitter, I’d reply “why on earth would you WELCOME it, when it’s full of exaggerated doom and gloom”?

    40

  • #
    MudCrab

    The first pair of F-35s arrived in Australia today (Monday).

    Wooo :D

    30

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      I wonder if they are going to send them up for a flypast over our town.

      40

      • #
        beowulf

        They did KK. Started at Tomaree and headed south mid-morning flanked by FA-18s. I was gonna go over but decided I didn’t want to fight for a parking spot near Tomaree with ten thousand others.

        30

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      How many coal fired power stations could you build for the price of one of those?

      50

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Can you build a power station for 100 mill? Not with CFMEU on site I doubt.

        That would be the fly away price, lifetime cost is much higher of course. It’s still a lot less than the NBN which was desperately needed to get fast porn.

        BTW it was only a few months ago that the type had it’s first hull loss. That’s pretty damn good.

        31

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          I was thinking that they might want to keep flying time low for insurance purposes.

          Can you insure a warplanes?

          20

          • #
            Hanrahan

            The planes ARE the insurance – for the nation. Losses are a cost of doing business.

            In ’72 or 3 there was a travelling airshow which toured all the RAAF bases with Townsville the last show. The Wing Commander in charge ended up in the airmen’s boozer, as happy as a dog with two tails: They didn’t lose an aircraft. They had budgeted for one.

            41

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Love my beer but hopefully this has just got to be opportunist b*llsh*t . . .
    Just heard on ABC radio from some idiot professor or other at East Anglia University saying that climate change will permanently double, triple and quadruple the price of beer in the very near future.
    Argument is that barley production will not be able to be maintained because of, you know what -climate change. Well I think that he should check up on the Russian harvest for this year. Lots of barley there.
    Someone tell me he’s wrong.
    GeoffW

    40

    • #
    • #
      MatrixTransform

      make yr own co2 with yeast ate

      20

    • #
      Another Ian

      Geoff

      Must be a climate conference in the air? IIRC this barley shortage thing has been around before and the conclusion was that you’ll be ok.

      Even go further as per the text of this email

      “As we get older, we sometimes begin to doubt our ability to “make a difference” in
      the world. It is at these times that our hopes are boosted by the remarkable achievements of other seniors who have found the courage to take on challenges that would make many of us despair.

      One person’s example

      “I stay active and happy. I’m fortunate to have a chemical engineering background and one of the things I enjoy most is converting beer and scotch into urine.

      Then I take a jog out to the shed and piss on pictures of Maxine Waters, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Elizabeth Warren & Dianne Feinstein!

      I do this several times every day. I really enjoy it and get my exercise too!

      Harold is an inspiration to all of us old folks.”

      - one you may not care to follow

      50

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Your beer is safe .

      10

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Currently buying imported beer from Belgium , very nice drop and only $30 odd a slab from BWS .
      Mind you I do get a small discount .

      30

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Dans has one similar. You know it is bottled o’seas because you need an opener. How is Europe so backward they haven’t found out about screw-tops? How can they ship beer half way round the world and still sell it cheaper than local bulk brands?

        50

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        Get the one from Aldi’-s
        Good drop.
        GeoffW

        00

  • #
    Robber

    Remember those big diesel generators Weatherill imported before last summer to avoid blackouts in SA before the last election?
    SATGN1 154 MW
    SATGS1 123 MW
    Well so far in Dec SATGN1 produced 130 MW for about 2 hours on Dec 3, SATGS1 about 15 MW for an hour or so Dec 6/7.
    During Nov on Nov 12 & 27, 15 MW total for about an hour or so.
    Reportedly the SA govt spent $100 million to install the generators – your taxes not at work.

    70

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Wait until there is a hot overcast day with no wind.
      I understood they were 7 OCGTs fuelled by diesel until natural gas became available.

      Weatherill has just announced his retirement from politics, along with Rau, his henchman in the legal portfolio.7

      51

  • #
    MatrixTransform

    make yr own co2 with yeast mate

    20

  • #
    robert rosicka

    So I’m up at the cement pond blowing the froth off a few listening to ABC radio (as you do) , and I hear Allan Joyce has earned a bonus of a lazy $25 mill but wants his workers to work over Christmas for nix .
    Seen as tho I was doing naff all I decided to check the ph of the pool and wow it’s becoming less acidic (that’s a good thing right) ?.
    Busy day tomorrow meeting a solar company at the rental in town in seems there is a new scam errr scheme where I can get solar on the roof at the rental and make the tenants pay for it ! Ahh don’t you just love Socialism.
    Figure it will add $$$$ to the value at no cost to me so what’s not to like .

    Ps
    Only checking this out not actually going ahead with it but want to know just what sort of a scam this really is , and will report back .

    Yours truly the socialist landlord .

    71

  • #
    RAH

    Thought you all might find this article interesting: Australia’s silence during climate change debate shocks COP24 delegates

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/australias-silence-during-climate-change-debate-shocks-cop24-delegates/ar-BBQIAFc?ocid=spartandhp

    50

  • #
    Another Ian

    Unintended consequences strike again

    “The slaughter here is relentless. White Oak is home to one of the largest pastured chicken flocks in the country; at any given time, 60,000 birds wander the land in accordance with pasture-raised parameters. As the next level beyond free-range, this farm never contains its adult birds indoors, instead allowing them to roam without restraint at all times. This also means that for the Bald Eagles that showed up a few years ago, White Oak is an all-you-can-eat buffet.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/12/09/this-is-not-your-grandmas-humane-society-16/

    And read the link!!

    30

  • #
    Another Ian

    For share watchers

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ge-makes-it-official-slashes-dividend-to-a-penny/ar-BBQDKW8?ocid=spartandhp

    Via a comment at Red Power

    Aren’t they dabbling in wind turbines?

    20

  • #
    Hanrahan

    The US is a powder keg, a nation divided.

    Here’s an article in Breitbart, unremarkable in itself although I agree with the sentiments. What IS remarkable is the comments. If people are threatening to take to the streets with guns if Trump is impeached, what will they do if he is assassinated?

    https://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/12/09/sen-king-third-of-the-country-would-see-impeachment-as-revenge-coup/

    50

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Only way the watermelons will get rid of Trump without starting a revolution is via the ballot box and he will get a second term .

      41

    • #
      PeterS

      I’m wondering if it’s possible for a US President to remain so past the second term if things get out of control and there are mass riots if not civil war.

      22

    • #
      RAH

      The ones that have been most prominent with their words and actions that have led us to this situation won’t be the ones doing the fighting. They’ll be hiding under their beds like Macron in France is doing now.

      40

  • #
    TdeF

    James Delingpole makes an amazing observation. The Gilets Jaune are saying “No to Marrakesh”, the signing this week in Marrakesh of the UN/EU/Theresa May/Macron/Merkel plan to allow floods of people into rich countries and to simultaneously lock up anyone who objects by passing ‘hate speech’ laws. He says it is a real sign when even politically very left Australia rejects the accord. (Of course that is because Julie Bishop resigned as Foreign Minister. All those parties wasted then?)

    It’s not just Global Warming/Windmills/Solar Panels and now giant batteries, it is an attack on the very existence of individual countries not ruled from Brussells/New York. The UN and EU wants to be real governments, not just a multi national forum for peace and trade respectively. The EU openly wants its own army. What? To fight the Russians?
    Again? So not only would England have lost the war after all, its army would be part of the German/French/Italian axis army. Great. Who saw that coming?

    These pan national organizations have metastatized and are now attacking their hosts in a long laid out plan to take control of the legal systems, destroy national borders and lock up anyone who disagrees. How long then before jail terms are needed for criminal Climate Deniers? Then they are extremely anti semitic as well. At least that’s consistent.

    51

  • #
    pat

    being stupid is a requirement for working with the FakeNewsMSM:

    9 Dec: UK Times: Greenhouse gases are making us more stupid
    by Jonathan Leake
    Late afternoon lethargy — that intense tiredness so familiar to millions of office workers — could become a planet-wide problem because of surging levels of greenhouse gases, scientists have warned.
    Raised carbon dioxide (CO2) in poorly ventilated workplaces is known to make workers sleepy and slow — a factor in sick building syndrome. Such CO2 levels could affect the entire atmosphere by the end of the century, driven by fossil fuel burning, according to a University College London (UCL) team.
    “Human cognitive performance declines with increasing CO2,” the researchers said in a paper. “Given the likelihood of increasing atmospheric CO2 concentration by the end of this century, direct impacts of CO2 emissions on human cognitive performance may be unavoidable.”
    The research, funded by the Engineering…

    UK Independent: Climate change likely to make us more stupid, study finds
    Rising levels of carbon dioxide could affect concentration and decision-making of global workforce
    by Adam Forrest
    Publishing their findings in Building Service Engineering, the researchers at UCL’s Energy Institute said attempts to minimise the impact was likely to change the way ventilation systems were engineered in buildings and transport systems.
    The team made clear that research on raised CO2 and human cognitive performance was still in its infancy, but said the “global nature” of the potential problem meant more studies were needed.
    Earlier this year, a study by Yale School of Public Health (LINK) found that air pollution caused a drop in intelligence levels…

    10 Dec: Daily Mail: Surging levels of greenhouses gases are making people tired and stupid, scientists claim
    By Sophie Law
    And the paper also warns that the natural level of carbon dioxide in the air would be four or five times higher by 2100.
    Researchers warn that a surge in levels could affect memory, concentration and making decisions.
    Although in its early stages, the research found that London would see the biggest increase in in levels above global average due to the amount of fossil fuel that is burned every day.

    50

    • #
      TdeF

      And the paper also warns that the natural level of carbon dioxide in the air would be four or five times higher by 2100.

      So 50% increase in 118 years, but a 500% increase in 82 years. You know it makes sense. A computer said so.

      If I wrote a computer program which said we could get rid of all the windmills by 2030, would it happen? The complete lack of anything resembling science is becoming clearer.

      Also it seems that Climate Change is reducing ventilation in buildings. When you breathe out, the CO2 content is 14% or 14,000ppm, 300x the 400ppm in the air. So what you have to do is continually run around the room. We need running tracks near desks.

      You have to love the language too. Instead of the usual ‘scientists say’, this uses the other language of ‘researchers warn’ where the longer one of ‘manipulative attention seeking ratbags surmise’ would be more accurate.

      41

    • #
      pat

      presumably this is the study! obviously commercial. given the date of publication, how come it’s in so much MSM today with no names, no links to the study?

      Building Services Engineering Research and Technology: Possible future impacts of elevated levels of atmospheric CO2 on human cognitive performance and on the design and operation of ventilation systems in buildings
      Article first published online: July 20, 2018; Issue published: November 1, 2018
      Robert J Lowe, Gesche M Huebner, Tadj Oreszczyn, Energy Institute, University College London, London, UK
      Corresponding Author: Robert J Lowe, UCL
      Attempts to minimise these direct impacts are likely to result in significant indirect impacts on the engineering of ventilation systems and associated energy use in all enclosed spaces including buildings and transport systems…
      https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0143624418790129?journalCode=bsea

      20

      • #
        pat

        UCL – London’s global university – strikes again:

        9 Dec: Eureka Alert: Brexit is leading to higher energy prices
        University College London
        Consumers paid on average £75 more in the year after the EU referendum for gas and electricity, according to research by UCL.
        A hard Brexit could lead to a further average rise of £61 per year in the event of further devaluation of sterling to pound-euro parity…
        Lead author Dr Giorgio Castagneto Gissey (UCL Bartlett School of Environment, Energy & Resources), said: “We know that exchange rates fell after the EU referendum but we can now look at the effect this had on wholesale and consumer energy prices…
        Co-author Professor Michael Grubb (UCL Bartlett School of Environment, Energy & Resources) said: “Forecasts always carry some uncertainty, but this research pinpoints historical fact: the referendum result, through its impact on exchange rates, has been the principal factor driving up UK household energy prices over the past two years.”…
        https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-12/ucl-bil120718.php

        Brexit added £2bn to UK energy bills in year after referendum, report claims
        UK Independent – 10 Dec 2018

        10 Dec: Business Green: Elecxit? Leaving EU electricity market could cost UK £270m a year, UKERC warns
        by Michael Holder
        Exiting the UK’s single market for electricity without a deal could “turn back the clock” for Britain and cost consumers up to £270m a year, according to new analysis by the UK Energy Research Centre (UKERC)…
        But the report warns decoupling the UK electricity market from the EU’s could mean the two markets closing at different times, forcing traders to decide their cross-border trades based on anticipated rather than actual prices, potentially leading to trading errors.
        And with more intermittent sources of renewables coming onto the grid alongside more trading capacity, the frequency and size of such errors could increase in the UK, leading to significant losses…
        https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/3067858/elecxit-leaving-eu-electricity-market-could-cost-uk-gbp270m-a-year-ukerc-warns

        not exactly a new scare:

        Brexit could drive up energy bills, say power firms
        Guardian – 27 Sept 2018

        20

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      They should try opening the windows. We used to call it “getting some fresh air”.
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      00

  • #
    beowulf

    For KK
    Here’s another infrasound effects story for your collection. Once again the 55 dbA audible sound red herring is used by the wind companies. The post also brings up the issue of interference patterns from multiple turbines reinforcing infrasound from each other.

    https://stopthesethings.com/2018/12/10/green-energy-guinea-pigs-wind-industrys-american-victims-monitored-for-infrasound-effects-on-heart-health/

    30

  • #
    pat

    from the first words, I knew Naomi Klein would be a signatory – did she also write the letter? probably, at least in part:

    10 Dec: Guardian: Letter: Act now to prevent an environmental catastrophe
    100 academics, authors, politicians and campaigners from across the world call for action to address climate change
    In our complex, interdependent global ecosystem, life is dying, with species extinction accelerating. The climate crisis is worsening much faster than previously predicted. Every single day 200 species are becoming extinct. This desperate situation can’t continue.

    Political leaders worldwide are failing to address the environmental crisis. If global corporate capitalism continues to drive the international economy, global catastrophe is inevitable.
    Complacency and inaction in Britain, the US, Australia, Brazil, across Africa and Asia – all illustrate diverse manifestations of political paralysis, abdicating humankind’s grave responsibility for planetary stewardship…

    With extreme weather already hitting food production, we demand that governments act now to avoid any risk of hunger, with emergency investment in agro-ecological extreme-weather-resistant food production. We also call for an urgent summit on saving the Arctic icecap, to slow weather disruption of our harvests.
    We further call on concerned global citizens to rise up and organise against current complacency in their particular contexts, including indigenous people’s rights advocacy, decolonisation and reparatory justice – so joining the global movement that’s now rebelling against extinction (eg Extinction Rebellion in the UK).

    We must collectively do whatever’s necessary non-violently, to persuade politicians and business leaders to relinquish their complacency and denial. Their “business as usual” is no longer an option. Global citizens will no longer put up with this failure of our planetary duty.
    Every one of us, especially in the materially privileged world, must commit to accepting the need to live more lightly, consume far less, and to not only uphold human rights but also our stewardship responsibilities to the planet
    Dr Vandana Shiva Delhi, India
    Naomi Klein Author
    Noam Chomsky Laureate professor, University of Arizona, Institute professor (emeritus) MIT, USA
    Prof AC Grayling Master of the New College of the Humanities, London, UK…
    Sir Jonathon Porritt Signing in a personal capacity, UK…
    Others by nation – includes:
    Australia
    Steve Biddulph AM, psychologist and author, Australia
    Professor Timothy Doyle University of Adelaide, Australia
    David Schlosberg Professor of environmental politics, University of Sydney, Australia
    John Seed founder, Rainforest Information Centre, St Lismore, NSW, Australia
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/09/act-now-to-prevent-an-environmental-catastrophe

    20

    • #
      pat

      anti-capitalist Naomi Klein’s best friends (see Guardian letter signed by Klein when it comes out of moderation):

      10 Dec: Guardian: Tackle climate or face financial crash, say world’s biggest investors
      UN summit urged to end all coal burning and introduce substantial taxes on emissions
      by Damian Carrington in Katowice
      Global investors managing $32tn issued a stark warning to governments at the UN climate summit on Monday, demanding urgent cuts in carbon emissions and the phasing out of all coal burning. Without these, the world faces a financial crash several times worse than the 2008 crisis, they said.
      The investors include some of the world’s biggest ***pension funds, insurers and asset managers and marks the largest such intervention to date. They say fossil fuel subsidies must end and substantial taxes on carbon be introduced…

      “The long-term nature of the challenge has, in our view, met a zombie-like response by many,” said Chris Newton, of IFM Investors which manages $80bn and is one of the 415 groups that has signed the Global Investor Statement (LINK)…
      Investment firm Schroders said there could be $23tn of global economic losses a year in the long term without rapid action…
      Thomas DiNapoli, of the $207bn New York State Common Retirement Fund, another signatory, said taking action on global warming not only avoided damage but could boost jobs and growth…

      Lord Nicholas Stern, of the London School of Economics said: “The low-carbon economy is the growth story of the 21st century and it is inclusive growth. Without that story, we would not have got the 2015 Paris agreement, but the story has grown stronger and stronger and is really compelling now.”…

      The US Trump administration will hold its only event at the UN summit on Monday and is expected to promote “clean coal”…
      A key demand of the Global Investor Statement is to phase out coal-fired power stations across the world. Peter Damgaard Jensen, the CEO of Danish pension fund PKA, said: “Investors, including PKA, are moving out of coal in their droves given its devastating effects on the climate and public health, compounded by its poor financial performance.”…

      Dozens of nations will affirm their commitment to end their coal burning on Thursday. However, the UN summit has seen US, Chinese and Japanese financial institutions cited as leaders in providing nearly $500bn in backing for new coal plants since the Paris agreement was signed…

      Another investor demand on governments is to introduce “economically meaningful” taxes on carbon. Most are below $10 per tonne, but needed to rise to up to $100 in the next decade or two, the investors said. The French president Emmanuel Macron’s botched attempt to increase fuel taxes and the gilets jaunes protests that followed were a model of how not to do it, said observers in Poland.

      The investors include some of the globe’s largest ***pension funds, such as Calsters and ABP, and insurers, including Aviva, AXA and Zurich…

      UN climate summits are frequently dogged by disputes over the $100bn a year that rich nations have promised to poorer ones by 2020 to tackle climate change. Direct government funding and private company finance were needed, (WRI’s Niranjali) Amerasinghe said: “It is really great when private sector is out there saying we are going to invest in climate-friendly activities.”
      https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/10/tackle-climate-or-face-financial-crash-say-worlds-biggest-investors

      10

  • #
    pat

    10 Dec: EconomicTimesIndia: India’s coal imports rose 10% to 156 MT during Apr-Nov: Report
    India’s coal imports rose 9.7 per cent to 156.08 million tonne (MT) in the April-November period of the ongoing fiscal, as against 142.25 MT in the year-ago period, according to a report by mjunction services.
    Coal imports in November increased 10.1 per cent to 19.47 MT, over 17.68 MT in the same period a year ago…

    nothing worth reading in the following except the opening paras:

    17 Dec Issue: New Yorker: Coal for Christmas at the U.N. Climate Conference
    By Elizabeth Kolbert
    Delegates arriving at the meeting, known in United Nations-speak as a Conference of the Parties, or COP, were treated to an outdoor performance by a Polish coal miners’ band. Inside the convention pavilions, they found mounds of coal displayed behind glass, like objets d’art, as well as arrangements of coal-based cosmetics and coal-encrusted jewelry. Poland gets about eighty per cent of its electricity from coal, the most carbon-intensive of carbon-based fuels, and the Polish President, Andrzej Duda, noted in his opening remarks that the country had enough as yet unmined supplies to last another two centuries. “It would be hard not to use them,” he said.
    Depending on how you look at things, a coal-stuffed climate summit is either completely absurd—“beyond parody,” as one commentator put it—or merely appropriate…

    20

  • #
    pat

    BlackRock, Vanguard, Axa raise coal holdings despite climate fears
    Financial Times – 9 Dec 2018
    The world’s biggest investors, including BlackRock, Vanguard and Axa, have ramped up holdings in coal since the landmark Paris climate agreement

    Climate change is firing up middle-class activism
    Financial Times – 9 Dec 2018
    Employers are having to think about how to deal with staff who set out to be arrested…

    10 Dec: UK Times: Faulty roadside chargers could stall growth of electric cars
    by Graeme Paton
    A study by the RAC Foundation published today found that one in 12 chargers — 8.3 per cent — failed to work this summer, making motorists reluctant to use the greenest cars for long journeys.
    Researchers said that reliability had improved but was still unacceptable. In the Netherlands only 1 per cent of chargers were faulty.
    The foundation wants hybrid electric cars to be banned from using chargers at motorway service stations because of their slow charging speed.
    It said that the hybrids — petrol or diesel cars with an electric battery for short journeys — took almost 12 times longer…

    10 Dec: Reuters: BP targeted with first shareholder resolution on climate goals
    by Ron Bousso
    LONDON: Pressure on oil companies to tackle climate change is growing after an activist group for the first time filed a shareholder resolution urging BP to set hard targets for reducing overall carbon emissions.
    Follow This, a Dutch organisation that spearheaded a number of climate shareholder resolutions at Royal Dutch Shell’s AGMs over the past three years said it also filed one with the Anglo-Dutch company for 2019.
    It also plans to file a resolution with U.S. rivals Exxon Mobil and Chevron “unless other parties file a similar resolution,” it said in a statement.
    The 2019 resolution calls on the companies to set and publish targets for the reduction of carbon emissions in line with the 2015 Paris Climate Accords to limit global warming to 2 degrees Celsius by the end of the century.

    20

  • #
    Bill In Oz

    Jo,has this video of Dr Murry Salby’s talk in Germany in October been discussed here ?

    It is extraordinary !..Yes 1hr 34 mimutes..But still extraordinary..

    Macquarie Uni. must have hoped to silence him back in 2013.But they have failed utterly

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtIgMftbUuw

    very worthy of being posted separately I think.

    30

    • #
      Chad

      An excellent rebuttal of the AGW theorys.
      It should be seen by all with any interest in the truth.

      00

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      I have to say that Murry’s style of delivery is difficult to follow.
      Can someone precise his argument into a simple 200 word delivery.
      Regards GeoffW

      00

  • #