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Australians paying $600 per household to subsidize wind and solar

Australia is a wonderful living experiment for nations worldwide of how a people with more energy resources per capita than anywhere else in the world can sabotage a perfectly good electricity grid in the hope of appeasing the Weather Gods.

At the request of Senator Malcolm Roberts, Alan Moran slices up our “Chief Scientists” report (known as the Finkel Review) and gives us some home truths. Electricity costs have doubled in Australia, Finkel’s plan would take what isn’t working, and do more of it –  in the process pretty much destroying one fifth of our manufacturing base, costing us thousands of jobs, and adding almost $588-$768 per household annually to energy bills. Let’s ask Australian voters if they want cheap coal power or if they’d rather spend  $600 a year to make the weather unmeasureably nicer in 2100? Why don’t we have a plebescite on that?

In other basic truths Moran points out that while Finkel seems to think new coal fired plants are uneconomic, everyone else is building them around the world. Old plants don’t have to be blown up on their 50th Birthday either. They can be maintained instead, like lots of other perfectly good 50 year old industrial workhorses.

The big cost of Electrons-for-the-climate is not just the higher electricity bill consumers pay, but the awful effect that expensive electricity has on our manufacturing sector (leading to the double whammy where people have higher bills at home, and no job to pay them). Moran points out that higher costs eat directly into profit margins. A 2% rise in costs can wipe out 13% of the total profits. This is why businesses flee from high-cost countries.

How do we fix it? Let the free market solve it for us

Moran recommends we return to a free market in electricity, dump the Renewable Energy Target, abolish subsidies, stop the SRES scheme and state based plans giving money to roof top solar with preferential feed-in tariffs, and stop tossing taxpayer money to the Clean Energy Regulator and the Clean Energy Finance Corporation. All new generators should pay the costs of the transmission lines required to connect them to the grid, and ensure they can operate “reliably”.

Cheap electricity: How Australia went from the top of the list to the bottom

In 1999 Australians had some of the cheapest electricity in the world:

Austrlaian Electricity prices, Graph, comparison to the rest of the world.

….

By 2015 Australia has a lot more renewables, and a lot more expensive electricity.

Australian electricity prices, Graph, comparison to the rest of the world. USA, UK, Denmark, Canada.

..

Working out the lifetime cost of electricity is difficult. It is even more difficult to find a nation with lots of wind and solar power that also has cheap electricity.

 Electricity prices skyrocket in Australia

Graph Electricity prices, 2015, Australia, Denmark, USA, UK, Canada.

Graph Electricity prices

Thsoe government subsidies $4.9 billion

Specifically $3.7billion from the Feds, $1.2b from states

Austrlaia, renewable energy, subsidies, 2017, Finkel, Moran.

Finkel Myth: The old Coal fired fleet has to close

Alan Moran replies:

“Some argue that many of these power stations are old, and the Finkel report contemplated a forced closure of power stations over 50 years old. The absurdity of such notions should be clear: US global military power is dependent on its 10 Nimitz class aircraft carriers which were first launched in 1972, and many rail lines and ports are over 100 years old. Even most of Australia’s commercial hydro power stations are over 50 years old. In all cases, older established plant has been renewed and revitalised over the years. While totally new facilities can be lower cost, it is wasteful to scrap facilities which continue to be competitive.

Companies will leave if electricity costs add just 2% to their total costs

I thought the devastating effect of a small rise in costs was particularly well explained.

“It might be said that even if electricity comprises 20 per cent of costs, a price rise that brings as much as a 50 per cent increase in these costs might be affordable. After all this would be an arithmetic increase in overall costs of a mere 10 per cent.

Such logic however overlooks the drivers of industry location in a market economy. One sees global brands like Adidas and Puma relocating their manufacturing source in response to two or three percentage points of costs. The reason behind this is the amplification effect of costs on profits, the driver of firms’ decision making. Profits are the residual benefit to the owner and decision maker after all other costs are covered. If profit comprises 15 per cent of the overall cost, a 10 per cent increase in costs eliminates two thirds of the income of the owner.

This amplification is the key to the creation of efficient economies the world over. Firms strive for seemingly tiny cost savings because of the effect of these in the income of the firm’s owner and decision maker. Even a two per cent cost increase would, where profit is 15 per cent of total cost bring a 13.5 per cent reduction in profits. Such a loss of income to the owners would, where the loss was being experienced in only one location, cause a shift away from that location.
A key competitive strength of Australian industry has been the cheap energy endowment that its mining and energy utility businesses have successfully tapped.  p35 – 36

Dr. Moran’s Audit Of The Finkel Report

Summary

  • Governments are subsidising the building of intermittent renewable energy that are reducing reliability and security while increasing prices. The Finkel recommendations entail an amplification of these subsidies, the outcome of which has been a doubling of wholesale electricity prices and a degradation of supply reliability. Compared with wholesale electricity prices of around $40 per MWh prevailing during the first 15 years of the present century, prices now exceed $80 per MWh.
  • The Finkel review accepts that its policy proposals will not return wholesale electricity to their historical levels but mistakenly argues that this would be impossible. Moreover, its over-optimist assumptions on future costs of renewables mean that its proposals would make even its $80 per MWh price goal unattainable.
  • Implementation of the Finkel recommendations would bring a further deterioration of system reliability and lift wholesale prices to at least $100 per MWh. This is already evident in prices of electricity on futures markets. Returning to the previous market-based electricity supply system that has been have gradually undermined by regulations over the past 15 years would result in new coal plants, wholesale electricity costs at around $50 per MWh and the restoration of a more reliable system.
  • Household energy bills, even under an optimistic view of the Finkel proposals, would be between $588 and $768 per year more than would be the case under an outcome that removed market distortions by eliminating all subsidies.
  • More injurious to households than the lift in their direct electricity costs, the Finkel recommendations would vastly increase the costs of electricity to commercial users. By more than doubling electricity costs, the Finkel proposals would force the virtual cessation of production in energy intensive, trade-exposed industries; these account for one fifth of manufacturing and include some of the nation’s most productive activities including metals and smelting, pulp and paper, sugar and confectionery. Competitiveness and future growth would also be adversely impacted across most agricultural and mining sectors.
  • A regulatory-induced elimination of the industries able to take advantage of Australia’s natural advantage in low cost energy supplies and the forced increase in all other industries’ electricity costs would severely reduce Australia’s living standards.

Recommendations

  • In general, the Finkel proposals should be rejected and regulatory distortions on energy supply should be removed. In particular, the Commonwealth should:
    • Abolish the Commonwealth’s Renewable Energy Target (RET) and the subsidies, presently about $75 per MWh, it creates for wind and large scale solar; and
    • Eliminate the Small-Scale Renewable Energy Scheme (SRES) under which electricity users in general are forced to provide a subsidy of $40 per MWh to roof-top photovoltaic installations.
    • Cease all government subsidies through the budget including guarantees to bodies like the Clean Energy Regulator and the Clean Energy Finance Corporation (CEFC).
  • The electricity market management should require, in line with the Finkel proposals, that all generators pay to ensure they operate reliably and require new generators to pay costs of transmission that their grid connection entails.
  • State government should remove subsidies like the Queensland Solar Bonus scheme and preferential Feed-in-Tariffs for PV generated electricity.

REFERENCES

Finkel Report (2017)  Independent Review into the Future Security of the National Electricity Market.   Blueprint for the Future

Moran, Alan (2017) The Finkel Report’s Recommendations on the Future Security of the National Electricity Market:
Impacts on the Australian Economy and Australian Consumers, Regulation Economics. here

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Australians paying $600 per household to subsidize wind and solar, 9.5 out of 10 based on 98 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/ydhtucn3

151 comments to Australians paying $600 per household to subsidize wind and solar

  • #
    Analitik

    Brilliant.

    And to drive to point home, have a look at Victorian wind farm output over the past 24 hours – less than 10% of nameplate capacity and basically ZERO for the past 9 hours (10am – 7pm)
    http://anero.id/energy/wind-energy/2017/july/30
    http://anero.id/energy/wind-energy/2017/july/31

    261

  • #
    Peter B

    The report by Professor Finkel is unfortunate. I don’t think anyone questions Finkel’s scientific credentials & ability. He founded Axon instruments, makers of the best electrophysiology equipment. By chance I have his original signed PhD thesis “Chloride-Selective Cholinergic Receptor/Channels in Snail Neurones”. An outstanding thesis. It is just a pity that he, like our UK snail scientist Steve Jones, seems so taken in by the AGW scam. Interesting & possibly relevant that both Finkel and Jones have wives working in the media.

    130

    • #
      Analitik

      The problem with Professor Finkel chairing the report team is that despite his doctorate in electrical engineering, real world electrical engineering is far removed from where he has spent his career. Scientist is a far, far better description of him than Engineer and the energy market needed to be assessed by an impartial engineer with real world experience in the the areas of power generation and transmission.

      Like Ross Garnaut, Alan Finkel has taken the CAGW arguments as given and then extrapolated their conclusions on that basis, making any of their analysis skeweddistorted beyond reality and therefore totally irrelevant to the well being of the nation (and the world). Both should be better than this and should be held accountable in the long term for the damage their reports and statements are causing.

      70

  • #

    This is why I’m now a fully-fledged conspiracy theorist. It’s easier to believe in globalist conspiracies than in humans who shoot themselves in both feet…then wish they were centipedes so they could go on shooting.

    361

    • #
      sophocles

      Mosomoso said:

      It’s easier to believe in globalist conspiracies than in humans who shoot themselves in both feet…then wish they were centipedes so they could go on shooting.

      The trouble with them is that they shoot a lot of other people around in their feet also.

      40

  • #
    Mark

    One thing you can be sure of with statism is that sense will not prevail. Venezuela is just one example – jollied along by a population anxious to vote themselves into penury.

    Hey, I’m from the government and I’m here to help.

    170

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I’m starting to think the globe is in the hand of collective madness of spiritual origin, what else can explain the insane lemming like rush off the edge of the Socialist cliff?

      If its of human origin, once every land is Communist, what then?

      Left wing Utopia?

      No…socialism always fails….always….

      So what then?

      210

      • #
        Leonard Lane

        OriginalSteve. You are most likely correct the collective madness is of spiritual origin guiding humans down the wrong path. Communists/atheists have long known that the first step to destroying a people is to destroy the family–the true basis of a just society.
        The breakdown of society is then followed by a breakdown of the industrial base maintaining prosperity prosperity and justice and the rule of law.
        With these two body blows to a country, it is ready for Socialism/Communism and the tyranny they bring.
        Now if the first step to break down a society is the family, then the first step to breakdown industry/prosperity is to destroy cheap and efficient production/distribution of energy. These two together destabilize a country and bring tyranny. And that accelerates the movement toward world governance.

        110

        • #
          Raven

          Communists/atheists have long known that the first step to destroying a people is to destroy the family–the true basis of a just society.

          I have no idea how communists and atheists become linked together as you opine. ??

          An atheist, by definition, has an absence of belief in deities of any sort so it’s unclear to me how a negative or destructive ideological position is applied to that.

          10

      • #
        Manfred

        The French philosopher Pascal Bruckner makes a fair effort at describing the current societal insanity – The Fanaticism of the Apocalypse: Save the Earth, Punish Human Beings, fuelled by eco-Marxist ideology (UNFCCC, UNEP, UN, EU) and aided by an MSM drunk with news creation over critical reporting.

        30

  • #
    cedarhill

    The true mystery is why you folks keep electing them? You’d think that by now there is no one that doesn’t understand the facts of the climate hoax.

    201

    • #
      el gordo

      In Australia there is no longer anyone to vote for, apart from some fringe dwellers.

      Have to wait for the climate to change, we have a blank sun and ENSO neutral until the end of the year. The Gleissberg commeth.

      180

      • #
        Manfred

        The Gleissberg commeth.

        Indeed it may. How long will the denial persist though? How long will the temperatures be fudged to conceal the reality?

        An answer…
        As long as it takes to institutionalise the UN Globoculture and the administrative reach of its diktat. Once this is achieved, the Trojan horse of climatism may be dispensed with, though the UNFCCC definition of “climate change” permits the justification ad infinitum of policies to mitigate the always adverse scourge of humanity upon Gaia. The next port of call, population kontrol.

        20

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Actually it’s quite simple. In a system with compulsory preferential voting in our house of representatives, there’s no way to put multiple candidates last.
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      180

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      The 4 largest political parties all advocate increases in renewable energy. All, with varying emphasis, claim that renewables are cheap. All claim that CO2 is pollution and a danger to human life. All claim that we must ‘do our bit to save the world’. The 2 National broadcasters are even more convinced about AGW, to the extent of refusing to air anything that might cast doubt on AGW. With the exception of one major newspaper all others lean heavily in content and editorials to the AGW idea. The commercial media outlets rarely allow any disputing view point.
      Is it any wonder then that a substantial MINORITY of Australians believe that the world is getting warmer? And who can the majority vote for (especially if the only choice is one of the 4 major parties?
      What the electricity crisis has done for a large MAJORITY of Australians is confirm that renewables are more expensive, and that the major parties aren’t interested in their problems. So the latest polls are showing that the 3 major parties have about 75% of the vote (Xenophon is largely SA based). What the actual support for the largest parties will be at the next election when faced with strong opposition in most seats is unknown, but Labor’s stranglehold on the coal mining areas may well go. Neither major party, nor the Greens, will be popular in the outer suburbs where rising electricity bills are hurting. We live in interesting times.

      350

      • #
        Tom R Hammer

        It’s only a matter of time before Labor or one of the other parties offers free solar panels to those in need. Just a matter of which party leaps first. It’ll buy votes at the following election.

        50

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        If all major parties are talking the same, effectively we have a one party system……

        “In a time of universal deception, speaking the truth was seen as a revolutionary act” ( paraphrasing )

        - “1984″

        70

    • #
      PeterS

      Although our electoral system is crazy, it’s not the main reason why we are ending up with really crazy governments of late. It’s the lack of interest and awareness of much of the public. We get the government we deserve. If the public were really awake to what’s happening, both major parties should become virtually extinct at the next election. Until voters break their tired old habits of voting predominately Liberal or ALP, things will continue to decline into the abyss. Back when the ALP formed government with Rudd as the PM the first time I shook my head and thought voters must be stupid. It’s now worse.

      160

      • #
        ivan

        Peter, what you need on the ballot paper is an extra last category – ‘non of the above’. That is the only way of removing the entrenched idiot politicians.

        If enough people voted that way you could well end up without a parliament until such time that people of worth (in the eyes of the population) came forward.

        70

        • #
          el gordo

          Ivan we have compulsory voting but can still vote ‘informal’, that is scribble across the ballot paper ‘CO2 does not cause global warming, a pox on all your houses’.

          If millions of people did that, then we would have a political revolution, otherwise democracy is worthless. The pseudo Marxists hold the whip hand and are softening up the ground waiting for our Beijing masters to take over.

          51

          • #
            David Maddison

            Actually, it is not compulsory to vote, submitting a blank or informal vote is legal.

            It is compulsory to have your name ticked off the register as having voted.

            91

            • #
              el gordo

              Yes but making an intelligent statement is more important than a blank ballot, which only indicates someone who is lazy and disgruntled.

              A people’s uprising still requires effort.

              50

  • #
    Planning Engineer

    The smartest people learn from others mistakes, then there are those who can’t learn from their own. But perhaps the most dangerous are those that see others mistakes and think we just a few simple tweaks, they will achieve unprecedented success.

    120

  • #
    RobertR

    Oh dear, I want Finkel electricity and I want to pay Finkel Prices. It makes me feel soooo good. We had our hottest July day ever, don’t you know (according to the bom). And I want a Gonski education, how cool. And I want a Tesla, you beaut! But I dunno about the fluoro outfit I’m expected to wear tho……….that big bro would want us all to be wearing a uniform is very chic……but it’s just that I don’t like the colour fluro! Is it because he wants to be able to spot us wherever we are at the drop of a hat or is it because he doesn’t want us all to look as good as he does when he makes an appearance?

    130

  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    So it took us 16 years to go from the lucky country to the republic of Dumbfukistan , we have hit rock bottom and Finkel gives us a shovel to dig our way out .

    201

    • #
      PeterS

      When the ALP+Greens get back in power the decline will accelerate enormously. Too many are still asleep. I just hope things don’t go too far such that we never recover and eventually end up like Venezuela.

      171

      • #
        el gordo

        Peter I don’t see any of the political parties as different, the Nats have been knackered by the farmers and graziers.

        ‘The NSW Farmers Association ended its annual conference on Wednesday by voting to remove clauses in its official policy that had called for a royal commission “to explore the scientific veracity and soundness of claims that carbon is a pollutant” and to investigate “whether the activities of mankind are responsible for causing any change”.

        SMH 2015

        70

      • #
        Dennis

        Voters who care need to give their primary vote to the best candidate they can choose who does not represent Green, Labor, Liberal or National in that order with Greens last on the ballot paper.

        In 2010 there was a hung parliament despite Labor’s clear victory in 2007 and Prime Minister Gillard was forced to make arrangements to form a minority alliance government. In 2016 the Prime Minister Turnbull led Coalition almost lost government but was saved by one National Party seat gained.

        At the 2019 (may be earlier) election we should try and force the next government into a minority position to demonstrate our frustrations and anger with both major parties or alternatives for government.

        If that means dysfunction and chaos for the next parliamentary term 2019 to 2022 so be it.

        70

        • #
          el gordo

          Vote only for those who demand a Royal Commission “to explore the scientific veracity and soundness of claims that carbon is a pollutant” and to investigate “whether the activities of mankind are responsible for causing any change”.

          60

  • #
    Don B

    New York Times:

    “Over all, 1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries, according to Urgewald’s tally, which uses data from the Global Coal Plant Tracker portal. The new plants would expand the world’s coal-fired power capacity by 43 percent.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/climate/china-energy-companies-coal-plants-climate-change.html

    In view of the fact that most of the world is building new coal plants, Australia’s anti-coal campaign is illogical, pointless, and insane.

    350

    • #
      manalive

      Insane indeed as Australia is by far the global top coal exporting country by volume accounting for 30% of world coal trade (2016).
      Coal not used onshore is simply exported for burning overseas — utterly insane.

      140

      • #
        Dennis

        But we can rest assured that our sacrifices are saving the planet from a man-made problem that doesn’t exist.

        60

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Its like when we went from free parking to paying $200/month

          People ( smart IT types ) who paid previously $0, now thought $200 was cheap…

          As I said – is it just me, or is that seriosuly messed up?

          A few real thinkers agreed it was messed up, but even intelligent people can rationalize being bent over a barrel and having nasty & evil things done to them if its also happening to everyone else. No one seems to take a stand and refuse and park miles away and walk, thus ensuring a lovely walk in fresh air to get to work….like I do….

          40

    • #
      Analitik

      Ahhh, but we need to lead by example to shame the rest of the world into decarbonizationindustrialization.
      South Australia is at the forefront of course and we can all admire their success

      40

  • #
    pat

    i’m afraid renewables are not even being considered as being at least partly responsible for the rise in cost of electricity & Labor is getting away with claiming they will reduce power bills while spending more on renewables:

    31 Jul: Australian: AAP: ACCC in SA to investigate power prices
    Australia’s competition watchdog is holding a public forum in Adelaide to look into what’s behind the state’s soaring electricity bills.
    The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission meeting on Monday is part of a national roadshow giving customers a chance to raise their concerns about a lack of competition and pricing issues in the energy sector…

    31 Jul: HunterValleyNews: NSW Labor commits to re-regulating electricity
    NSW Labor leader Luke Foley has reaffirmed his commitment to tackling runaway electricity price rises by re-regulating the market, as millions of consumers are being hit with steep power price rises of up to 20 per cent.
    Mr Foley addressed the key initiative in his speech at the weekend’s NSW Labor Annual Conference, as households and small businesses brace themselves for average increases of $300 and $900 a year respectively…

    Just this week it was revealed that the three companies, which supply power to 90 per cent of the state, are banking hundreds of millions of dollars in profits while more families face having their electricity cut off due to soaring prices.
    “Labor will not stand by and let family budgets be crushed and businesses wrecked by power price hikes,” Mr Foley said.
    “Families and small businesses are facing record power bills because the government did everything it could to drive the price up ahead of privatisation…
    “We will re-regulate the electricity companies to ensure that consumers are treated fairly.”…
    http://www.huntervalleynews.net.au/story/4821839/tackling-runaway-price-rises/

    22 Jun: ABC: NSW Opposition’s budget reply promises reregulation of electricity market
    By state political reporter Sarah Gerathy
    Opposition Leader Luke Foley made the pledge during his budget reply speech, while also sketching out plans to boost investment in solar energy and battery storage…

    “A Labor government will eliminate electricity companies super profits to make electricity more affordable for families.”
    Mr Foley said Labor would also boost renewable energy investment by massively increasing solar energy generation on the rooftops of government buildings and tendering for 100 megawatts of battery storage.
    He told parliament that the money raised from the potential transfer of the Snowy Hydro to the Federal Government would also be invested into renewable energy generation under Labor.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-22/nsw-opposition-targets-power-prices-in-budget-reply/8642172

    22 Jun: SMH: James Robertson: Expert alarmed at NSW state opposition’s bold plan on electricity prices
    A bold, Australian-first plan to bring soaring electricity prices back under state government control has led the NSW Opposition’s budget reply, a move described by a leading expert as “tantalisingly attractive” but as having jumped the gun.
    About 18 months out from the state election, Opposition Leader Luke Foley has made clear he will campaign on a bold but embryonic policy to shield Sydney families facing average bill increases of 20 per cent or some $320…

    But Tony Wood, the director of energy policy programs at the Grattan Institute, has been a strong critic of deregulation in other states and said Mr Foley had jumped the gun.
    “A lot of these things are tantalisingly attractive,” said Mr Wood. “You may get a short-term positive bounce…
    Mr Wood said that while deregulation appeared not to have worked in many states so far, there was still hope for innovations in fields such as battery power.
    “This was a last resort – the resort to re-regulation. Why would you do this ahead of a [forthcoming] ACCC review?,” he said. “It may be where we end up, but it’s premature.”…

    Economists say a complex mix of factors are behind the price rises, including the shutdown of Victoria’s Hazelwood power plant, which causes greater reliance on gas, which is more expensive but with which Australians must increasingly compete with overseas export markets…
    But the suspicion that energy companies are gouging consumers is widely shared…

    The remainder of Mr Foley’s budget reply speech focused on major environmental initiatives,
    Fairfax revealed he had been caught out by a plan to increase solar power use by installing panels on government buildings and a tarriff to reward households with their own schemes. (A state government plan to make use of roof tops is already underway).
    Mr Foley also promised to invest the proceeds of the sale of the Snowy-Hydro scheme into renewable generation electricity projects in regional areas…

    30

    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      Another waste of public money when they already have they’re answer they’ve been told to give , let’s face it we all know what’s happening and they are just not going to go against the meme of the masters .

      50

      • #
        Robert Rosicka

        Actually if I was a betting man they will blame too few interconnectors , the federal government and evil fossil generators from the other states .

        60

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Its all out of sight out of mind until someones relative dies on an operating table when the power goes out….

          30

    • #
      Dennis

      Mr.Foley is the mouse that roared.

      And do not forget that his federal and state colleagues are plotting to raise the RET.

      30

  • #
    pat

    at least Obama admitted CAGW policies would cause electricity rates to skyrocket:

    Aug 2015: US Chamber of Commerce: President Obama Keeps His Promise: Electricity Rates Will Skyrocket Because of Carbon Rules
    by Sean Hackbarth
    https://www.uschamber.com/above-the-fold/president-obama-keeps-his-promise-electricity-rates-will-skyrocket-because-carbon

    worth a read, plenty of detail:

    30 Jul: Eurasia Review: Sam Morgan: Europe’s Wind Capacity Grows But Concerns Persist
    But new asset financing took a hit compared to a record six-month-period in 2016. The first half of 2017 saw €8.3bn pumped into wind power, down from the €14bn of the same period last year.
    Market concentration has also emerged as a concern, after 53% of investments were made in Germany. No offshore investment was made in the United Kingdom.
    After the UK government decided to end existing subsidies for new onshore windfarms as of April the sector has taken a hit…
    WindEurope Chief Policy Officer Pierre Tardieu said wind growth “is driven by a handful of markets” and warned that “at least ten EU countries have yet to install a single MW so far this year”.
    In 2016, the market was equally concentrated as an overwhelming proportion of new capacity was installed by Germany, followed at a distance by France and the UK…
    Tardieu insisted that “member states should come forward as soon as possible with their National Energy and Climate Plans to 2030”, which will “give sorely needed visibility to the wind energy supply chain”…
    http://www.eurasiareview.com/30072017-europes-wind-capacity-grows-but-concerns-persist/

    another UNBELIEVABLE poll, which should have been dismissed by the MSM out of hand:

    31 Jul: Scotsman: Connor Riordan: Poll finds more Scots want stronger action on climate change
    Results from a survey by WWF Scotland show an increase in the percentage of those calling for more investment, renewable energy sources and a reduction in emissions…
    And 71 per cent thought electricity should be generated from Scotland’s renewable resources, up from 61 per cent in 2016…
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/poll-finds-more-scots-want-stronger-action-on-climate-change-1-4517962

    40

  • #
    Leonard Lane

    Some quotes of Cicero

    If the people are given the power to vote themselves bread and circuses, then they will.

    The more laws, the less justice.

    We are in bondage to the law so that we may be free.

    There is nothing so absurd but some philosopher has said it.

    To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child.

    130

  • #
    John Watt

    It would be useful to compare the relativity of major cost components of electricity supply in 2017 and say 1990. Which cost components have grown disproportionately? Are there any “new” cost components..subsidies for renewables? Has privatisation distorted the relativities? For example in a totally public owned supply industry there was an advantage in being able to plan from the coal mine to the cooktop. Has privatisation of parts of the supply chain interrupted the flow of information and therefore destroyed the ability to plan system development effectively? Is this impaired planning capability contributing to price escalation?
    It is becoming increasingly obvious that supply reliability in Australia is going to require the re-entry of government into power generation to re-establish adequate coal-fired baseload capacity. At present green propaganda and corporate greed have destroyed the business case for private investment in coal-fired baseload capacity.

    140

  • #

    This is what you should expect to result from coerced elections. Examine the list of countries that force their citizens at gunpoint to cast ballots. Many are sovereign slums, others corrupt pits of crony mercantilism. One, with a population smaller than most cities, seems to manage but overall they are a sorry lot, thanks mainly to the example set by Her Majesty’s former prison colony. Brazil has the same number of political parties as Germany had in 1932. All of them are looter parties, and they combine to make sure no libertarian party ever gains a toehold. The current president is despised by 95% of the population. Now would be a good time to reexamine the wisdom of trying to have a free country and eat coerced voting too.

    50

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Hank,

      I tend to agree with you. But my Australian friends all give me a list of reasons why it’s a good idea. So I agree to disagree and remember that it’s their country, not mine.

      But the obvious disadvantage that it forces people to vote who don’t follow what’s going on and are therefore uninformed voters is rather glaring. Here in America I have the same opinion of these get out the voter drives, get them registered and then to the polls, which brings people out to vote who never had the gumption to get out and register then make it to the polls on Election Day and they end up voting in large numbers just exactly the way they’re told is the best way to vote. Now if it isn’t obvious, I’ll say it — that amounts to the same person voting more than once, something that’s anathema to the U. S. Constitution.

      I would rather those people not vote. They have exactly the same opportunity I had to find out how to register — usually the local fire house can do it — but wherever you need to go to do it, go do it. If it isn’t important enough to you to figure it out and get it done then you don’t deserve your right to vote.

      The same goes for those who are registered but don’t get to their assigned polling place. And if you’re a shut-in or going to be out of town you can get an absent voter ballot and vote that way. But to me, you have to be the one to do that. It should not take anyone’s help.

      Anything else leads to the least common denominator thinking taking over the country and soon we’re having to fight to elect a man like Donald Trump.

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        Greg Cavanagh

        I always thought compulsory voting was better than voluntary voting, but when you state it like that Roy, I can see that neither produces a fair result.

        I believe the Aus system could produce a fairer result, “<>” the news media weren’t so ignorant/biased/stupid. Then it could work.

        I see every election that the pre-pole vote tallies are pushed in either direction by the media in order to sway voters to vote with the majority. Whichever way that particular media wants to direct people, they say the pre-pole vote is in that direction, hoping that people will vote for the party that most people want. Kind of a “lead the horse to water” vote.

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          Roy Hogue

          Greg,

          My first challenge to you is to define “a fair result”. In its obvious interpretation, an election in which fraud does not occur gives “a fair result”. What concerns me is getting a wise result. Self government works much better when the voters have some good idea of why they’re voting and that takes voters who know what’s worthwhile to preserve and what’s not. It works much better if they don’t simply vote their immediate best interest. Remember something, you and I have worked a long time to build a career and increase our net worth and we both want to preserve what we have. Then along comes Bernie Sanders who wants to take it all away. And had he been elected I’ve no doubt he would be working to do just that right now. That’s not in my interest or yours but it’s worse than that. It’s not in anyone’s interest because it leads to national bankruptcy as we’ve seen in Greece for example. The government handed out one too many free lunches and suddenly not a single Greek citizen was worth anything and the result was chaos and a demand to be bailed out.

          When we lowered the voting age here from 21 to 18 using the flimsy and I think, stupid logic that says if you’re old enough to die for your country then you’re old enough to vote, I was horrified. You should not vote unless you have some better stake in the outcome than that. You should not vote until you have built something in life that’s actually worth protecting. And the right to die for your country isn’t worth anything, much less protecting.

          My second challenge to you is to tell me why a win by Bernie Sanders would have been a fair result when it would simply have continued the downward spiral we’re already in where what the working guy is trying to build, something for his family and their future, is taken away to feed, house and clothe those who just want a free ride.

          Voting has a purpose and it isn’t to just vote yourself the largest share of someone else’s wealth that you can get. It’s to select leaders wise enough to guide a nation to an even better future. And it certainly isn’t to just vote present because the law says you must show up.

          Self Government is a messy business at best, with everyone’s interest competing in some way with that of everyone else. But it works much better if the voters know what’s worth voting for and what’s not. And the usual trend is that people are pushed toward voting for what’s in the best interest of one political party, one ideology or another. And frankly we stay free by not giving one party that kind of power over us.

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            Roy Hogue

            About the media… we get to vote on them too. We choose to turn on the TV to channel x because we want to, not because we’re forced to. We choose to buy newspaper Y or Z (if anyone still buys newspapers).

            So there are alternatives for information. What’s lacking is parents and schools reinforcing the idea that freedom is the whole point. Instead, look what our schools have become.

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        shortie of greenbank

        I tend to disagree with the people are not informed if they don’t vote in a voluntary voting system. It comes down more to the feeling of votes not changing anything. Brexit is a good example of a vote actually changing something and resulted in increased voter turn out.

        There might be a difference to the US and Britain on this (informed but not voting).

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      David Maddison

      There is a better solution than compulsory or voluntary voting.

      A selected group of voters called Forty Shilling Freeholders.
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty-shilling_freeholders

      You could only vote if you had property to a certain value.

      What do you think of some variation of this idea in modern Western democracies? The problem now is that political parties are in competition with each other to see who can give away the most welfare in order to secure votes. This applies to corporate welfare as well (i.e. protection from market forces ensuring that industry has no incentive to become efficient). Ultimately there will be so many people voting themselves funds from the public coffers there will be no incentive to produce. (We are almost at that point now.) If voters had some interest in owning some amount of property this would not be such an issue.

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        oooh yes please and can we introduce fiefs as well?

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          David Maddison

          When a majority of people become net wealth consumers, what do you think happens then?

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            Greg Cavanagh

            Supposedly what happens then; is that people get to vote for more of other peoples money.
            I do wonder if this is even possible though.

            What I see in governments; is that they buy votes by promising money and services, but they renege on those saying the cost is too high, then they do the exact opposite and raise the cost of living for everybody.

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        Analitik

        How about a tax threshold before you can vote?
        Those below the threshold can be deemed “citizens” with “taxpayers” holding the privilege of suffrage. (re Jerry Pournelle’s Future History series).

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    Bitter@twisted

    Keep repeating “renewables are expensive, ineffectual subsidy-suckers” until the morons finally get it.

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    Roy Hogue

    In 1999 Australians had some of the cheapest electricity in the world:

    But then the political wind changed… And for no good reason you were sliced, diced and chopped to pieces by those who shouldn’t even be allowed to tie your shoelaces. Actually they shouldn’t be allowed to tie their own shoelaces without adult supervision and never anyone else’s, not even in an emergency.

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      Dennis

      Are they not guilty of misleading their constituents and arranging for government/taxpayer departments and organisations to deceive.

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      OriginalSteve

      I recall the “independent” ( allegedly right wing ) MSM papers running hit pieces on people who had electric hot water systems…. it was at the height of the 2005-2008 drought and the MSM was screeching loudly like a bunch of drug addled cockatoos ( parrots ) about climate change and old flannel ears was predictingt he dams would never refill…until they did…..

      Up until 2000 things were pretty cruisy, then 9/11 happened, and the planet collectively went bonkers into a truama-driven mind bend…..

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      Manfred

      In the country the geopolitical and economic size of a pimple on a gnats bottom, there is only unquestioning support of the UN, the UNEP, the UNFCCC and the whole striking edifice of the NWO, with its third arm of “civil society” the UN approved hangers-on.

      It is a political credo across the aisle, as it is a matter of fact that since 2003, the CPI of a standard basket of groceries has risen 34%, yet the price of electricity by 100% … yet ALL New Zealand’s residential power is supplied by hydro, which supplies 60% of total required power, without any associated “carbon” faux-pollution.

      In a country far colder than Australia, the power impoverished are hurting and becoming sicker in their cold, dank homes. Eco-Marxist doctors like Dr Alex Macmillan (Otago DailyTimes 17th June 2017) who can only be described as the new age Mengele spout their ideology:

      “As a doctor, my colleagues and I are increasingly concerned about the impacts of climate change New Zealanders and already we are seeing these impacts, even in Dunedin.”

      The data says otherwise. But never let that get in the way of political ideology. NIWA advises that the NZ annual temperature trend for 1909 – 2009 lies at 0.91C per century (95%CI +/- 0.29), which fits perfectly with centennial natural variation of 0.98C +/- 0.27C (Lloyd PJ 2015). Rainfall in Dunedin between 1950 and 1990 shows a statistically insignificant decrease.

      The politics is settled, it always was.

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    Another Ian

    More coming?

    “The article notes the improvement in EVs sales comes at a price and is subject to limitations:

    “But that progress comes with two big caveats: First, it has relied on extensive public subsidies and, second, it has done little to reduce planet-warming emissions of carbon dioxide. If electric cars are ever to displace gasoline engines without government putting its thumb on the scale, they must not only keep innovating but outrun fossil fuels where productivity also keeps advancing.”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/07/31/global-ev-and-related-climate-alarmist-colossal-messes/

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    TedM

    Unfortunately Moran’s recommendations will not be accepted, why? Because it’s positive, logical, delivers genuine energy equality, promotes industry and employment and rejects the CAGW heresy. In other words the blood sucking UN will hate it.

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    David Maddison

    Concering Fink’s absurd claim that just because a power station is 50 years old it has to close and the response that the US relies on Nimitz class aircraft carriers from 1972 (actually commisioned 1975), there is an even better example.

    The YOUNGEST B-52 bomber in service was built in 1962 making it 55 years old and the US has plans to keep them in service until at least the 2040′s.

    “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-52-life.htm

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    David Maddison

    Will the Finkel Review go down as one of the most destructive documents ever written in Australian history in terms of it’s advocacy of policies which will completely destroy the economy?

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      Dennis

      And Prime Minister Turnbull and the Coalition government that he leads will suffer the consequences of their Finkel Review.

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    Dennis

    Media’s Silence Of The Scams

    MAURICE NEWMAN

    There is so much junk passing as climate science, but Australians are waking up.

    The Australian newspaper today

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    Drapetomania

    .. (Xenophon is largely SA based)…

    Grinds teeth…that twat..Has anyone ever heard him say anything of substance..?
    Its just Orwellian tautologies/ thought bubbles of blather that “sound cool” to the brain dead..

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    pat

    David Maddison has posted the story of the year, but it’s behind a paywall.

    hopefully, someone will excerpt the most important parts including, I understand from radio news this morning, that BoM’s thermometers are not working properly, or similar rubbish.

    btw the Australian/BoM piece has been online for EIGHT hours, & the news is certainly on Alan Jones Show and the news headlines during his program…YET I cannot find any other MSM coverage whatsoever, nor any social media coverage at this point.

    the link for Maurice Newman. I could read this one, but it’s a shame he didn’t have the latest BoM news included in the piece.

    1 Aug: Australian: Maurice Newman: Media’s silence of the climate scams
    How lucky to have gatekeepers such as the ABC, SBS and Fairfax Media to protect us from the likes of Climate Depot founder Marc Morano, recently here promoting his documentary Climate Hustle?
    Thanks to mainstream media censorship, Morano’s groundbreaking film, which promised a heretical fact-finding journey through the propaganda-laced world of climate change, was denied publicity…

    Australian scientist Jennifer Marohasy recently outed the Bureau of Meteorology for limiting the lowest temperature that an individual weather station can record. If this is accepted practice, no wonder American physicist Charles Anderson declares “it is now perfectly clear that there are no reliable worldwide temperature records”…READ ALL
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/medias-silence-of-the-climate-scams/news-story/b124752820c94822915f94917e6566b2

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      David Maddison

      OPINION
      Media’s silence of the climate scams
      MAURICE NEWMAN
      The Australian12:00AM August 1, 2017
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      90 Comments
      How lucky to have gatekeepers such as the ABC, SBS and Fairfax Media to protect us from the likes of Climate Depot founder Marc Morano, recently here promoting his documentary Climate Hustle?

      Thanks to mainstream media censorship, Morano’s groundbreaking film, which promised a heretical fact-finding journey through the propaganda-laced world of climate change, was denied publicity. Described as “the most dangerous documentary of the year”, Climate Hustle “exposes the myth of the 97 per cent ‘scientific’ consensus, debunks hype about temperature and extreme weather, and introduces viewers to key scientists who have reversed their views and converted to scepticism”.

      Fortunately, Al Gore had no difficulty finding the media opportunities Morano couldn’t, to push his apocalyptic movie An Inconvenient Sequel. It continues the scaremongering of Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth. Like the first, it’s full of scary weather videos and features, Gore reminding us that we are at a tipping point with the result that our children will inherit a world of “stronger storms, wor­sening floods, deeper droughts, mega-fires, tropical diseases spreading through vulnerable populations in all parts of the Earth, melting ice caps flooding coastal cities, unsurvivable heat extremes, and hundreds of millions of climate refugees”. Facts don’t stand in the way of a good story. But, then, most who consider this movie a “must see” will take delight in having their fantasies and prejudices confirmed.

      The movie shamelessly promotes green tech, a field in which Gore is a successful investor. His advocacy and political access are believed to have made him the world’s first “carbon billionaire”. But that’s the self-serving nature of climate-change politics. It confers wealth and privilege on its boosters. Doubters are banished.

      [snip]

      Crony capitalists are encouraged to invest in renewable energy through attractive taxpayer subsidies. We are told the crippling costs of renewable energy targets are the price we must pay to save the planet. Energy poverty and the premature death of the elderly through lack of affordable heating are downplayed or accepted as collateral damage.

      Much of the media volunteered as propagandists… [Snip]
      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/medias-silence-of-the-climate-scams/news-story/b124752820c94822915f94917e6566b2

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      David Maddison

      I posted the text of the article but it went to moderation probably because of the word s c a m.

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      David Maddison

      You can often get past a paywall by Googling some of the text of the article.

      Suggest you try:

      “How lucky to have gatekeepers such as the ABC, SBS and Fairfax Media to protect us from the likes of Climate Depot founder Marc Morano, recently here promoting his documentary Climate Hustle?”

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        but Newman’s article is just a review of a year old movie with an expose of the movie’s content and a reiteration of his position on various aspects of climate science and potted sociology.

        What part of this is the story of the year? The fact that he misuses the word censorship?

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      Analitik

      For those interested (which should be everybody here) I’ve linked the google cache version in 19.1

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    pat

    on this particular day…how BRAZEN is this?

    1 Aug: Townsville Bulletin: Helter swelter, it’s heating up
    by ANDREW BACKHOUSE
    Bureau of Meteorology senior climatologist Catherine Ganter said for the next three months there was a greater than 80 per cent chance of warmer days and nights compared to normal.
    “From what we can see there are much warmer than average sea surface temperatures all the way across the east coast and that’s partly behind the warmer outlook,” she said.
    Towns along the coast of Queensland will be most affected by the warmer sea temperatures.
    The forecast could mean warmer nights in particular.
    “It tends to affect minimum temperatures more,” Ms Ganter said…

    Ms Ganter said the chances of wetter and drier conditions in August and ­October were about equal…
    The average maximum temperature for July is likely to beat the previous record set in 1975 to be 2C above average.
    Official readings began in 1910.
    And the unseasonable warm conditions will continue.

    “In Townsville it’s likely to be a degree warmer than normal,” Ms Ganter said.
    http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/helter-swelter-its-heating-up/news-story/9aa228c912323d5578d0cad1e830e44e

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    pat

    didn’t find this easily:

    1 Aug: Australian Editorial: Bureau clouds weather debate
    In a time of climate change, it’s not surprising there is more interest in — and scrutiny of — the Bureau of Meteorology. A confident, outward-looking agency would seize this as an opportunity. Instead, as we report today, the bureau still struggles when called on to give a transparent account of its work. On July 2 in Goulburn, NSW, observant local Lance Pidgeon noticed the temperature on the bureau website had dropped to minus 10.4C. Next it read minus 10C, then the reading disappeared altogether. The original low reappeared after questions were put to the bureau.

    One explanation from the agency is that results below minus 10C are flagged as possible anomalies and checked before they are restored. Yet the same system applies at the alpine Thredbo top station where temperatures as low as minus 14.7C have been registered. Seemingly at odds with its first explanation, the bureau also says machines at several cold weather stations have failed to record below minus 10C and will be replaced. In any event, the bureau insists, these failures will not skew the national weather records because the Goulburn and Thredbo stations do not feed into this official dataset. However, results from Goulburn are used to adjust readings from Canberra, which are included in the national dataset.

    That adjustment process, known as homogenisation, has got the bureau in trouble in the past. Again, the issue has been one of transparency. The bureau has made a series of changes to historical records across the country. It says it does so to adjust for the movement of a weather station site, changes to surrounding vegetation or results that look wrong when compared with nearby sites. Such homogenisation is not unique to Australia but the bureau sometimes fails to convince when asked to explain the specific local adjustments it has made, especially if these bolster a warming trend. The same goes for any practices that discount cold temperatures.

    The official record must be accurate and trusted. Otherwise, claims of historic extremes — the hottest winter day! — only mislead and public policy gets corrupted. Even if the bureau does have all the answers, it needs to do a better job of taking the public — sceptics included — into its confidence.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/editorials/bureau-clouds-weather-debate/news-story/defe9d457e78517992d7c90b1d2275fc

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    David Maddison

    Finkel for me has made “trilemma” one of the most irritating words in the English language.

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    Robber

    Dr Finkel’s report did have some facts, even if buried in Appendix A on page 201.
    Levelised costs of electricity in 2020.
    Wind $92/Mwhr (no backup)
    Large solar photovoltaic with 3 hours storage $138/MWhr
    Large solar thermal with 12 hours storage $172/MWhr
    Combined cycle gas turbine $82/MWhr
    Open cycle gas turbine $123/MWhr
    Supercritical coal $76/MWhr
    Add some backup to wind and you end up with a cost of order $150/MWhr.

    So the winner is: ……… Coal!!!!

    However to comply with the climate religion he then extrapolated costs out to 2050 when wind/solar will miraculously become competitive with coal.

    In the real world right now, we are paying subsidies of around $80/MWhr to wind/solar generators in our retail electricity prices that they get paid in addition to the wholesale price that since the closure of Hazelwood in March 2017 has been averaging $110/MWhr in Victoria compared to $46/MWhr in 2016.

    But what’s to come? By 2020 the RET mandates that “renewables” must increase from 14% of supply to 23.5%. Hydro makes up 6% of that 14%, so unless the government abolishes or suspends the RET, intermittent wind/solar must increase from 8% to 17.5% of total electricity supplies on average in just the next three years.

    I don’t think that the world’s biggest battery is going to keep the lights on when the sun isn’t shining and the wind isn’t blowing.

    As Dr Moran has reported:
    – Household energy bills, even under an optimistic view of the Finkel proposals, would be between $588 and $768 per year more than would be the case under an outcome that removed market distortions by eliminating all subsidies.
    – More injurious to households than the lift in their direct electricity costs, the Finkel recommendations would vastly increase the costs of electricity to commercial users. By more than doubling electricity costs, the Finkel proposals would force the virtual cessation of production in energy intensive, trade-exposed industries that account for one fifth of manufacturing industry in Australia.

    When will our pathetic politicians stop this nonsense?

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    Hasbeen

    I never could understand why it was so hard for some people to understand that a 1% reduction in costs was net profit increase of up to 10%, but an increase in turnover of 10% could add less than 1% to profit.

    For some reason many could just not get their head around this simple fact.

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    pat

    now 9 hrs since the Australian/BoM review story was posted online. still nothing from ABC.

    however, posted 10 minutes ago:

    1 Aug: ABC: BOM says global warming behind Northern Territory’s hottest July on record
    By Lucy Marks
    The Northern Territory has sweltered through the hottest July on record, with a mean maximum temperature of 3 degrees Celsius above average, and there’s little relief in sight.
    The mercury was the highest it had been in July since records began more than 100 years ago, the Bureau of Meteorology said
    Darwinites also sweltered through the nights with only six overnight lows under 20C, while the average for July is 18.5 nights below 20C.

    BOM meteorologist Greg Browning said Darwin had a mean maximum temperature of 2C above the average, but the change was more dramatic further south.
    “So places like Alice Springs [and] Yulara, are seeing anything between 3C and 4.5C above the long-term average, so well and truly warmer than anything they’ve ever seen before,” Mr Browning said.
    “We’ve seen well above average from the far north coast of the Territory right down to the South Australian border and everywhere in between.”…

    “What is particularly interesting is last year we were coming out of a very strong El Nino, and typically in the follow up year to a strong El Nino we see these warm temperatures,” he said.
    “Whereas we aren’t experiencing that post El Nino warmth this year; it’s just a neutral climate state at the moment and we’re still seeing these very warm temperatures.”…

    “It’s hard to say whether this is the new normal or whether this is just an aberration,” Mr Browning said.
    “It’s definitely a bit unusual, you wouldn’t expect this if it was just the status quo.”…
    The Northern Territory’s soaring temperatures confirmed the NT as the hottest part of the country in the past month, but the BOM said Queensland and Western Australia had also seen their highest maximum temperatures this July.
    Australia as a whole would also record its highest mean maximum temperature on record this July, Mr Browning said.

    “It’s basically this background warming signal that we’re seeing right across the globe associated with global warming,” he said.
    “It seems like the warming conditions we’ve seen right across the globe are just becoming commonplace, and we’re seeing them in monthly temperatures on a regular basis.”…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-01/bom-says-global-warming-behind-record-northern-territory-heat/8762266

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      clipe

      In Ontario “Liberal” means catering to unionised government workers and assorted hanger’s-on.

      And they lie,lie,lie.

      Wynne Liberals discrediting McGuinty Liberals by attacking report

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      clipe

      Ain’t this a beauty?

      http://di2.nu/foia/foia2011/mail/0563.txt

      Search term? ontario

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        clipe

        It is but to weep.

        The country has hundreds of years of coal available, probably at
        stable prices. “New clean-coal technologies are showing that air
        pollution can be reduced and energy efficiency increased, by using
        America’s abundant supply of coal,” according to the report. But
        even when cleaned of conventional pollutants, environmentalists
        point out, coal produces far more carbon dioxide, which is thought
        to cause global climate change, than natural gas or oil. The
        federal government has spent about $1.8 billion on clean-coal
        technologies in the last 15 years, combined with $3.6 billion from
        states and private companies, but some money available for
        subsidies has gone unspent.

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      clipe

      “Our research has shown a very strong consumer need for cordless,
      high-power, efficient vacuum cleaners,” says Mr Urso. Today’s
      cordless models, that Electrolux estimates account for 40 per cent
      of the market, tend to run out of energy quickly, or fail to
      deliver much suction power. Whereas cordless machines are as noisy
      as conventional vacuum cleaners, the fuel-cell models are almost
      silent. More importantly, the fuel-cell cleaners will have a
      retail price similar to that of today’s mid-range cleaners, which
      Electrolux markets for $850 (£590). Jack Harrod is chief operating
      officer of Manhattan Scientifics, the US technology specialist
      from which Electrolux will license the fuel cell technology. He
      says improved manufacturing techniques mean that the fuel cells
      will work out as cheap as normal motors.

      If the prototype vacuum cleaner makes it to commercial production,
      it will be a great victory for proponents of the fuel cell. The
      technology has been prohibitively expensive up to now because of
      the difficulty of manufacturing the units. For instance, a
      Mercedes-Benz Citaro fuel-cell bus is expected to cost about
      E1.25m (£765,000) compared with about E250,000 for a standard
      single-deck urban bus.

      Recharging the vacuum cleaner will involve snapping on a new
      container of fuel. The cells will be cylindrical, about 30cm high
      and 10-13cm in diameter. Electrolux will have to arrange for local
      outlets to sell the replacement fuel containers. Hydrogen-based
      fuel cells work by combining hydrogen and oxygen in an
      electrochemical reaction similar to that of a battery. Hydrogen in
      its pure form can be used in fuel cells but the element itself
      does not occur naturally in sufficient quantities. So it has to be
      produced – by processes that could be renewable or based on fossil
      fuels.

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    pat

    David Madison -

    I managed to get this much to post at WUWT:

    1 Aug: Australian: Bureau of Meteorology opens cold case on temperature data
    The Bureau of Meteorology has ordered a full review of temperature recording equipment and procedures after the peak weather agency was caught tampering with cold winter temperature logs in at least two locations. The bureau has admitted that a problem with recording very low temperatures is more widespread than Goulburn and the Snowy Mountains but …

    more renewables is the answer for some:

    1 Aug: ABC: Solar panels not benefiting poor who can’t afford them, SACOSS says
    By Chris McLoughlin
    Low-income households unable to afford solar panels on their homes are bearing the brunt of higher costs of living, the South Australian Council of Social Service (SACOSS) has told a electricity forum organised by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC).
    SACOSS chief executive Ross Womersley said the problem was caused by tariffs paid to households generating excess electricity from solar panels which was fed back into the power grid.

    “Over time some of the generous green schemes that we’ve introduced — including South Australia’s premium feed-in tariff which pays solar consumers many times the cost of energy and is funded disproportionately by non-solar households — is driving prices increases in the South Australian context,” Mr Womersley said.

    Those fitted a decade ago could get up to 44 cents per kilowatt hour for excess power, potentially saving thousands of dollars a year on electricity bills.
    Mr Womersley accepted there was an environmental benefit as well as a financial motive, but said retailers would inevitably try to recover their costs which put households without solar panels at a disadvantage.
    “I think that is part of the conundrum that we have,” he said.
    “As a community we want to move towards a low carbon future and of course we see that as a desirable outcome, however we also have to recognise where we’re providing subsidies in our market and … people who are experiencing the worst price consequences are those households that don’t have solar on their roofs…

    The South Australian Greens have a bill before State Parliament to set a minimum feed-in tariff.
    Greens’ MP Mark Parnell said it was needed so solar panel owners were not “ripped off” by effectively providing free electricity to retailers which could sell it at a profit…
    Mr Parnell said gas prices were the big driver of power prices rises, not solar panel feed-in tariffs.
    He said the prices of solar panels had also fallen since feed-in tariffs took effect, but suggested the State Government could step in where they were unaffordable.
    “There’s no reason why every public housing [property] shouldn’t have solar panels on the roof, that’s a policy initiative the Government could take,” Mr Parnell said…
    “That would allow some of our lowest income people to reduce their own bills by having access to solar power.”

    ***Meanwhile, South Australian households will be bracing for sharp rises in power bills with retail prices due to rise as much as 20 per cent during the September quarter.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-01/poor-feel-power-price-pain-because-solar-panels-out-of-reach/8761422

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      el gordo

      ‘The Bureau of Meteorology has ordered a full review of temperature recording equipment and procedures after the peak weather agency was caught tampering with cold winter temperature logs in at least two locations.

      ‘The bureau has admitted that a problem with recording very low temperatures is more widespread than Goulburn and the Snowy Mountains but rejected it has ­attempted to manipulate temperature records.’

      Oz

      70

      • #
        David Maddison

        It is incomprehensible that any modern professional level temperature recording device has a problem recording temperatures below -10C or very any possible cold or hot temperature related to the weather.

        81

        • #
          el gordo

          Yes indeed, somebody had a warm bias but they’ll close ranks to save face.

          ‘Dr Johnson said failure to record the very low temperatures had “been interpreted by a member of the community in such a way as to imply the bureau sought to manipulate the data record”.

          “I categorically reject this ­implication,” he said.

          This is a huge credit to Pidgeon and Marohasy.

          50

          • #
            Peter C

            Yes indeed!

            Scientist Jennifer Marohasy and amateur meteorolgist Lance Pidgeon pictured at the Goulbourn Airport weather station is a front page news story in the Australian today.

            “The BOM has ordered a full review of temperature recording equipment and procedures….”

            Strangely the BOM ACORN-SAT Technical Advisory Forum under Professor Sandland has found no problems yet despite running for more than 2 years now.

            31

        • #
          Peter C

          Is the problem with the recording equipment? BOM chief exec Andrew Johnson blamed the equipment which he was “not fit for purpose”(sounds like panic all round).

          However the equipment seems to have recorded the low temp of -10.4C at Goulbourn Airport correctly and probably the Threbo tops -14.7C also. A bureau spokeswoman said “the bureau’s quality control system …..was set at -10C which was why the record automatically adjuted.” So maybe they should be looking at the quality control system (whatever that is) before they throw out all the recording equipment.

          40

  • #
    Mark M

    China’s ageing solar panels are going to be a big environmental problem

    The issue of how to dispose of hazardous waste from ageing panels casts a shadow over the drive towards renewable energy and away from fossil fuels

    Sunday, 30 July, 2017

    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2104162/chinas-ageing-solar-panels-are-going-be-big-environmental-problem

    “Lu Fang, secretary general of the photovoltaics decision in the China Renewable Energy Society, wrote in an article circulating on mainland social media this month that the country’s cumulative capacity of retired panels would reach up to 70 gigawatts (GW) by 2034.

    That is three times the scale of the Three Gorges Dam, the world’s largest hydropower project, by power production.

    By 2050 these waste panels would add up to 20 million tonnes, or 2,000 times the weight of the Eiffel Tower, according to Lu.

    “In fair weather, prepare for foul,” she warned.

    21

  • #
    Mark M

    via comments @bolta: So can we look forward to the generators paying us to take their power?

    http://www.wattclarity.com.au/2017/07/energy-prices-below-zero-in-south-australia-but-raise-regulation-fcas-prices-through-the-roof/

    “A quick note at the end of the day today to follow my earlier tweets to record the situation in the 13:30 dispatch interval (that’s NEM time – so the 5-minute period ending 13:00 in Adelaide) when the dispatch price for the “energy” commodity dropped as low as it could go (-$1000/MWh for the five minute period)”

    11

  • #
    pat

    ???

    31 Jul: Colorado Uni Boulder: An inevitable warm-up for Earth
    Even if humans could instantly turn off all emissions of greenhouse gases, Earth would continue to heat up about two more degrees Fahrenheit by the turn of the century, according to a sophisticated new analysis published today (LINK) in the journal Nature Climate Change.
    If current emission rates continue for 15 years, the research shows, odds are good that the planet will see nearly three degrees Fahrenheit (1.5 Celsius) of warming by then.
    “This ‘committed warming’ is critical to understand because it can tell us and policymakers how long we have, at current emission rates, before the planet will warm to certain thresholds,” said Robert Pincus, a scientist with the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences (CIRES) (LINK), a partnership of the University of Colorado Boulder and NOAA. “The window of opportunity on a 1.5-degree [C] target is closing.”…

    The new assessment, co-authored by Pincus and Thorsten Mauritsen of the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, is unique in that it does not rely on computer model simulations, but rather on observations of the climate system to calculate Earth’s climate commitment. Their work accounts for the capacity of oceans to absorb carbon, detailed data on the planet’s energy imbalance, the climate-relevant behavior of fine particles in the atmosphere and other factors.
    Among Pincus and Mauritsen’s findings…
    The research was funded by the Max-Planck-Gesellschaft, the U.S. Department of Energy and the National Science Foundation…READ ON
    http://www.colorado.edu/today/2017/07/31/inevitable-warm-earth

    31 Jul: Uni o Washington: Earth likely to warm more than 2 degrees this century
    by Hannah Hickey
    But the Earth is very likely to exceed that change, according to new University of Washington research. A study using statistical tools shows only a 5 percent chance that Earth will warm 2 degrees or less by the end of this century. It shows a mere 1 percent chance that warming could be at or below 1.5 degrees, the target set by the 2016 Paris Agreement.
    “Our analysis shows that the goal of 2 degrees is very much a best-case scenario,” said lead author Adrian Raftery, a UW professor of statistics and sociology. “It is achievable, but only with major, sustained effort on all fronts over the next 80 years.”…
    The new, statistically-based projections (LINK), published July 31 in Nature Climate Change (LINK), show a 90 percent chance that temperatures will increase this century by 2.0 to 4.9 C…

    “The IPCC was clear that these scenarios were not forecasts,” Raftery said. “The big problem with scenarios is that you don’t know how likely they are, and whether they span the full range of possibilities or are just a few examples. Scientifically, this type of storytelling approach was not fully satisfying.”
    The new paper focuses instead on three quantities that underpin the scenarios for future emissions: total world population, gross domestic product per person and the amount of carbon emitted for each dollar of economic activity, known as carbon intensity…

    Raftery previously worked on United Nations projections for future world population. His 2014 study used Bayesian statistics, a common tool used in modern statistics, to show that world population is unlikely to stabilize this century. The planet likely will reach 11 billion people by 2100.

    In the new study, Raftery expected to find that higher populations would increase the projections for global warming. Instead, he was surprised to learn that population has a fairly small impact. That is because most of the population increase will be in Africa, which uses few fossil fuels.

    What matters more for future warming is the carbon intensity, the amount of carbon emissions produced for each dollar of economic activity…
    The research was funded by the National Institutes of Health. Other co-authors are Alec Zimmer, a UW graduate now at Upstart Networks in Palo Alto, California; Richard Startz, a UW professor emeritus of economics who now holds a position at the University of California, Santa Barbara; and Peiran Liu, a UW doctoral student in statistics.
    http://www.washington.edu/news/2017/07/31/earth-likely-to-warm-more-than-2-degrees-this-century/?utm_source=UW%20News&utm_medium=tile&utm_campaign=UW%20NEWS

    10

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    pat

    WaPo goes along for the ride:

    31 Jul: WaPo: We only have a 5 percent chance of avoiding ‘dangerous’ global warming, a study finds
    By Chris Mooney
    Two new studies published Monday, meanwhile, go further towards advancing this pessimistic view which asserts that there’s little chance of the world will stay within prescribed climate limits…

    So what should we make of all of this?
    On Monday I spoke with Glen Peters, a climate policy expert at the Center for International Climate Research in Oslo, about the two latest papers. Peters is a researcher who is on the record stating that he thinks there’s little chance of holding warming to 2 degrees Celsius unless we come up with so-called “negative emissions” technologies that allow us to actively withdraw carbon dioxide from the atmosphere later in the century.
    Somewhat surprisingly, though, Peters actually felt that the first new study, finding only a 5 percent chance of staying below 2 degrees, might be a tad too negative…

    None of this news brings us into the range of the worst-case climate scenarios portrayed in a recent New York Magazine article…

    The upshot of all the latest research, however, is that while limiting warming to 2 degrees is seeming unlikely, and 1.5 degrees nearly impossible, staying within something like 2.5 degrees still seems quite possible if there’s concerted action. And who knows whether in thirty years, negative emissions may appear much more feasible than they do now, providing the option of cooling the planet back down again at some point.

    In sum, climate pessimism has indeed had a strong run lately — but you have to keep in context. It’s pessimism that we’ll hit our current goals. It’s not fatalism, or the idea that we’ll accomplish nothing, or that present momentum doesn’t matter.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/07/31/we-only-have-a-5-percent-chance-of-avoiding-dangerous-global-warming-a-study-finds/?utm_term=.3b83b1212cd1

    10

  • #
    pat

    posted online 39 mins ago, updated 6 minutes ago:

    1 Aug: ABC: Australia records hottest July, Bureau of Meteorology says
    By Kristian Silva, Lucy Marks and staff
    A BOM report to be released later today will show the country’s average July temperature was at its highest in more than 100 years of weather recording, forecaster David Crock said.
    “The warmest parts have been through Queensland, Northern Territory, northern Western Australia and New South Wales,” he said.

    “The inland areas have certainly been warmer away from the cooling influence of the ocean … but certainly some of the temperature anomalies extend right across northern Australia.
    “Queensland had its warmest July on record for both maximum and minimum temperatures across the whole state — parts of Queensland have been very dry.”…
    BOM meteorologist Greg Browning said it was “basically this background warming signal that we’re seeing right across the globe associated with global warming”.
    “It seems like the warming conditions we’ve seen right across the globe are just becoming commonplace, and we’re seeing them in monthly temperatures on a regular basis.”

    In the Northern Territory, the mean maximum temperature was 3 degrees Celsius above average — the mercury was the highest it had been in July since records began more than 100 years ago.

    Research published in Nature Climate Change last week indicated the hot and dry climate system would increase in frequency if global warming was kept to the Paris Climate Summit target of 1.5C.
    It warned it would be longer and harder to break drought events, but University of Southern Queensland Professor Roger Stone said more research was needed…
    “In my opinion, it would be good to see some other follow-up studies besides this very useful one in Nature Climate Change and see other groups around the world if they get the same results perhaps, before we get too alarmed by this.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-01/australia-records-hottest-july-on-record-bom-says/8762560

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    pat

    if anyone comments at Tony Heller’s website, maybe they could post some further info, as he doesn’t have much detail:

    31 Jul: RealClimateScience: Tony Heller: Shock News : BOM Caught Tampering With Temperature Data
    https://realclimatescience.com/2017/07/shock-news-bom-caught-tampering-with-temperature-data/

    10

  • #
    Mark M

    BREAKING nine new hybrid generators : Holden plant to nth/ desal plant to the Sth. Power crisis plan for this summer.

    https://twitter.com/mikesmithson7/status/892183643447111680

    10

    • #
      David Maddison

      Interesting that they are located at the sites of two places related to flawed climate and economic policy. A desal plant and a manufacturing plant killed by unions and expensive power.

      I am sure there’s some deep meaning there.

      11

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Global warming fravdster, profiteer and science fiction movie maker explains how the interior of the earth is millions of degrees in temperature.

    https://youtu.be/kGV7Dr2iDvU

    11

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Oooo….look….a quiet backdown? Maybe he wants to make sure his beer stays cold over the holidays?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-01/sa-to-get-two-new-power-stations-premier-weatherill-says/8762892

    South Australia to get two power stations, SA Premier Jay Weatherill says

    South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill has announced plans for two new power stations.

    The hybrid turbines will initially be installed at two locations, the Adelaide desalination plant site in Lonsdale and the General Motors Holden site in Elizabeth.

    They will operate on diesel fuel over the next two summers before being relocated and switched to gas, the Government said.

    The Government has bought nine new GE TM25000 aero derivative turbines through APR Energy.

    They will provide up to 276 megawatts of generation to the grid when required.

    20

  • #
  • #
    Whalehunt Fun

    State government should remove subsidies

    No. The feds should remove one dollar of untied funding for every dollar of subsidy paid to any of these fake schemes.
    The states would drop them faster than a greenie would grab a travel allowance to take their cub whalewatching.

    11

  • #
    pat

    30 Jul: Jennifer Marohasy: Bureau Misleads Minister Frydenberg on Goulburn
    RATHER than admit that temperature dropped to a record low -10.4 degree Celsius on the morning of Sunday 2nd July at Goulburn, the Bureau of Meteorology has come-up with yet another even more absurd story.
    Responding to a letter from Josh Frydenberg, the Minister for Environment and Energy, Andrew Johnson, CEO and Director of Meteorology, has claimed the weather station malfunctioned…
    (LETTER)
    This is a contrived story, easily disproven with the following evidence…READ ALL
    http://jennifermarohasy.com/2017/07/bureau-misleads-minister-frydenberg-goulburn/

    1 Aug: Warwick Hughes: Persistent truth telling climate sceptics cause the BoM to shaft itself again
    http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=5246

    1 Aug: AntigreenBlog: from UK Times: Matt Ridley: Britain’s energy policy keeps picking losers
    The public have paid the price for years of missteps: it’s time to scrap Hinkley Point C [nuclear] and support the shale revolution
    Hinkley is but the worst example of a nationalised energy policy of picking losers. The diesel fiasco is another. The wind industry, with its hefty subsidies paid from the poor to the rich to produce unreliable power, is a third. The biomass mess (high carbon, high cost and environmental damage) is a fourth.

    The liberalised energy markets introduced by Nigel Lawson in 1982, embraced by the Blair government and emulated across Europe, delivered both affordability and reliability. But they were abandoned and, in the words of the Lords committee, “a succession of policy interventions has led to the creation of a complex system of subsidies and government contracts at the expense of competition. Nobody has built a power station without some form of government guarantee since 2012.”

    All three parties share the blame…READ ON
    http://antigreen.blogspot.com.au/

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  • #

    I’m astonished that people can’t put two and two together.

    Look at the two costing charts for power up in the text of Joanne’s Thread.

    In 1999, Australia was paying 12 cents per KWH for electricity, and now, in 2015, we are paying 24 cents per KWH for electricity, so the cost has doubled.

    What’s the big difference between 1999 and 2015.

    In 1999, we had no wind plants.

    So, let me see if I’ve got this right.

    No wind plants equals cheap.

    Wind plants equals double the cost.

    A number of coal fired plants have also closed in that same time as well.

    So, coal fired power is cheap, and wind power is expensive.

    That’s despite more than half the up front construction cost for wind plants coming from both arms of Government, (Federal and State) so now they only have to recover half of that cost from the sale of electricity, and contractural agreements see that the wind plants also receive a cost from those Governments for every MWH of power they generate, and still power costs have risen.

    Wind power provides less than 5% of Australia’s total power consumption, and yet, even at that small amount, costs for electricity have still risen.

    Strange isn’t it?

    Tony.

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    • #
      Dennis

      I cannot come to grips with the success of a huge international scam spanning nations right around the world for so long.

      31

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    Dennis

    grace 15 minutes ago
    How about this article from Monday “The Australian”

    The UN doesn’t like this free, liberal world JENNIFER ORIEL

    The United Nations has become a threat to the liberal international order. It weakens the constitution of liberal democratic states by ­attacking the political and cultural conditions required for their survival. It attacks the security of free-world countries and the common values that underpin free societies. In recent years, UN leadership has become more hostile to free citizens and politicians who dissent from illiberal supranational rule.
    [Snip]
    In the past week, we witnessed the UN act as a seemingly illiberal and dishonest organisation. The High Commissioner for Refugees, Filippo Grandi, accused the Australian government of misleading the UN. He claimed the UNHCR agreed to help facilitate the Australia-US refugee transfer “on the clear understanding that vulnerable refugees with close family ties in Australia would ultimately be allowed to settle there”. To Australian ears, the supposed deal sounded improbable. It would under­mine the hard-won border policy developed by the Abbott government. Operation Sovereign Borders broke the business model of people smugglers by refusing to reward them with entry to Australia.

    The gravity of the UN refugee commissioner’s claims against the Australian government prompted media to request supporting evidence. On the ABC, Leigh Sales asked the UNHCR’s assistant commissioner for protection, Volker Turk, who had given the “clear understanding” to the commission. After several attempts to clarify what agreement had been made, it appeared that the UN was misleading Australia, not the reverse. We are still waiting for the UNHCR to provide valid evidence or apologise for misleading the international community about Australia’s secure border policy. But apparently, being the UN means never having to say you’re sorry.

    Since the election of Australia’s conservative government, the UN has attacked our secure border policy, counter-terrorism measures and attempts to reduce ­unprecedented national debt by curbing expenditure on discretionary foreign aid programs. In 2015, UN migrant rights rapporteur Francois Crepeau claimed falsely that he was denied proper access to offshore immigration processing centres. At the time, I questioned Crepeau’s objectivity given that he was a council member of the Global Detention Project, an activist group highly critical of such centres.

    UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres also has a history of left activism. He was president of the Socialist International at its 22nd congress, which resolved that “the goal of the SI must be to parliamentarise the global political system” by the establishment of a “UN Parliamentary Assem­bly”. Later, as UNHCR chief, ­Guterres criticised “manifestations of xenophobia … Islamo­phobia, racism” and “xenophobic parties” in Europe. While he praised Australia’s generosity in hosting and integrating refugees, Guterres made the rather extraordinary claim that our issue with boat arrivals was “a kind of collective sociological and psychological question”. No, it was a kind of 1200-deaths-at-sea atrocity.
    [Snip. We can't publish full articles without permission - Jo]

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    Analitik

    TOTAL EASTERN AUSTRALIA wind generation is under 5% so far today – that’s less than 150 MW of the 4.4 GW nameplate capacity over 13 hours, so far.

    http://anero.id/energy/wind-energy/2017/august/1

    Eastern Australia doesn’t seem to be “somewhere” today since the wind is always blowing there.

    We’re gonna need a bigger battery…

    I’m watching for news about electricity in South Australia tonight and tomorrow morning.

    10

    • #
      Analitik

      Well it looks like South Australia has been fortunate with timing this evening as the low system and front has come through and repowered the largely idle wind turbines.

      The next few days will be worth watching, however with the very strong high system likely to produce clear, calm and very cold conditions across South Eastern Australia
      http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/charts/4day_col.shtml.

      10

      • #
        Robber

        Analitik, I think that you will find that SA will be ok through the winter because they recommissioned Pelican Point gas plant giving them an extra 400 MW, so they are now able to deliver over 1800 MW from fossil fuels, versus peak demand of around 2100 MW. I’m also wondering whether they haven’t brought online another gas station because it was only at end of July they reached 1800 MW, previously only 1600 MW max per anero.id. But come summer, peak demand rises to 3000 MW. Hence their rush to bring in those diesel generators.

        00

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        Abc practically dancing in the street at news of industrial decline.
        http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-02/how-holden-closure-will-help-ease-energy-demand/8765828

        Could their agenda be more obvious?

        00

  • #

    The alleged fact that wind power is cheaper than coal fired power is moot really, and I’ve lost count of the number of times I have shown that meme to be false anyway.

    The adage about letting the market decide is something that no one has even bothered to check, because that also proves coal fired power to be cheaper.

    For the last five weeks I have been watching the actual data, in an attempt to highlight the Base Load, and one of the things I have found is that the market actually is deciding what is cheaper, and believe me, it isn’t wind power.

    Wind power generation has actually been as high as 15% of that total Base Load, but again, that is neither steady nor reliable, as there are days when wind power is down around 3 and 4%.

    Even when wind power is as high as that 15%, coal fired power has still delivered the same amount it always has, regularly between 80 and 85% of that power required absolutely, the same amount whether wind is high or low.

    So, when coal fired power supplies 80% of the power no matter what wind is doing, surely that says something of itself.

    Those power retailers, (quite naturally) want to buy the cheapest power they can get hold of so that their profit margin is higher, considering they sell the electricity at the same cost all the time.

    If wind power was so high, (in terms of actual generation) and if wind was so cheap, then those retailers would purchase the cheapest they could get hold of, and if wind was cheaper, then they would buy that instead of coal fired power.

    Well, they aren’t doing that at all.

    If wind generation is high, then they use less hydro, and less natural gas fired power, and one of the obvious things about detailing that data is that that is exactly what is happening. The only time coal fired power generation is low, is when Units go offline, and even then, those other units at coal fired plants are ramped up so they can make up for what has gone down.

    Those retailers have decided WHAT actually is the cheapest power they can buy, and that is coal fired power.

    Wind goes up and down, who knows when, and coal fired power just rolls along, doing what it always does, delivering cheap power and huge amounts of it.

    Incidentally, when you talk about wind power being low, try this morning for example.

    At 4AM, total consumption was 19140MW. Coal fired power delivered 15500MW of that, 81%, and wind power, well that delivered 80MW (no, that’s not a misprint) or 0.4% of that absolute requirement.

    0.4%.

    That 80MW is at a Capacity factor of 1.7%. 80MW, less than half of just ONE unit at the now closed 53 year old Hazelwood Plant. Billions of dollars worth of wind plants, and only 80MW.

    I couldn’t give a rats if they say wind power is cheap.

    Who cares?

    It can’t deliver. It’s useless. It will NEVER replace coal fired power, its stated aim. It’s an enormously expensive failure to deliver. If anything else, anything at all, had a usage or delivery rate like that, the headlines would ROAR out the waste, or as Colonel Kurtz might say ….. “the horror!”

    The market HAS actually decided. Trouble is, no one wants to report it.

    Tony.

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    • #
      Robber

      Retailers are forced to buy wind and solar and hydro to meet the RET target each year, currently about 14% of total annual GWhr. The market prices are set every 5 minutes by generators bidding to supply – wind and solar bid low so whatever they produce will be accepted, because they also get to sell their LRET certificates for about $80/MWhr over and above whatever the wholesale price. The wholesale price is set by the highest incremental bidder – and that is normally gas and hydro because prices are highest when demand peaks morning and evening. So as you say coal gets the baseload 80% throughout the day and night.
      If you look at today’s spot prices per AEMO’s data dashboard that all supplying generators receive, in Victoria at 7am this morning the spot price was $277/MWhr to deliver 6510 MW, but by midday the spot price was $98 to deliver 5608 MW. However the predicted spot price this evening at 6.30pm is $293/MWhr to deliver 6886 MW.
      The average price in Victoria yesterday was $136, the day before it was $90/MWhr. I haven’t been able to determine whether there is a correlation between the amount of wind generation and the daily prices – they certainly fluctuate. During July, daily prices have ranged between $91 and $147. Interestingly, in Qld with no wind, daily July prices varied from $62 to $92/MWhr, presumably due to the amounts Qld generated to send south of the border.

      However the data doesn’t tell us anything about the cost of wind because it is a given that it will be used when available. But coal is definitely cheaper then gas, and hydro is limited so Tasmanian Hydro makes a killing by maximizing supplies to meet peak demands,

      10

    • #
      Another Ian

      Tony

      I’ve been looking at those wind figures and thinking of welding, where you need pretty constant power.

      From there to thinking of punishmments till the end of time as in Greek mythology.

      Second greatest punishment would be to have to do quality production welding with wind power only.

      Top grade punishment (for the !Weatherdills et al) would be to have to juggle the volts/amps comtrols to try and keep the welder happy

      10

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    pat

    comic relief…check the pic of the reactor:

    31 Jul: UK Independent: World hunger could be solved with food created by electricity and carbon dioxide, say scientists
    The ‘protein reactor’ is the size of a coffee-machine and currently takes a fortnight to produce a spoonful of powder
    by Chloe Farand
    The Food From Electricity study, funded by the Academy of Finland, was set up with no less an aim than to alleviate the world hunger.
    Using carbon dioxide taken from the air, researchers from the VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland and Lappeenranta University of Technology (LUT) succeeded in creating a protein powder, which could be used to feed people or animals.

    The “protein reactor” can be used anywhere with access to electricity. If it was used as an alternative animal feed, this would allow land to be used for other purposes such as forestry or more crops for human consumption.

    The scientists also stressed that the reactor could produce food with no environmental impact if the electricity used is derived from renewable sources…
    In the future, the technology can be transported to, for instance, deserts and other areas facing famine…
    “One possible alternative is a home reactor, a type of domestic appliance that the consumer can use to produce the needed protein.”

    According to the researchers, the process of creating food from electricity can be nearly 10 times as energy efficient as photosynthesis, the process used by plants…
    But before cattle or humans can be fed with the protein, the technology needs to be made much more efficient.
    Currently, the coffee-machine size reactor takes about two weeks to produce only one gram of protein powder…

    The study is part of a wider project called Neo-Carbon Energy (LINK) which aims to develop an energy system that is completely renewable and emission-free.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/world-hunger-food-electricity-carbon-dioxide-ingredients-solve-climate-change-scientists-finland-a7869316.html

    10

  • #
    Robert Swan

    It’s all very well to say a “free market” will fix it, but that’s an ill-defined term at the best of times, not made any clearer in this case by the mix of public and private ownership and shared/monopolised infrastructure.

    The market wasn’t free before, but it had settled at a pretty sensible point with the regulations that were there. While it might be a good first step to return to the old rules, who thinks that would get us back to the good old days? Too many have a vested interest in pressing on the way we’ve been going and would do their utmost to stop any backtracking.

    Perhaps I’m a pessimist, but I’m more optimistic than some here. I don’t think we’ll ever become another Venezuela; Argentina seems a more likely outcome.

    10

  • #
    JPM

    Jo
    The LRET & SRES are not federal subsidies. They are payed for by electricity users when they pay their electricity account. It is not taken from general revenue (Taxes). The Federal government legislated creating the RET which forces us to pay for those but they are not from taxes! It is a fine distinction, I know, but if you do not understand that you can come to some bizarre conclusions.
    Cheers.
    John

    01

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    pat

    no conflict of interest:

    31 Jul: NationalObserver: Ontario Minister Glen Murray quits politics for dream job
    By Elizabeth McSheffrey
    As the Ontario government lost an experienced cabinet minister on Monday, one of Canada’s leading environment and energy think tanks greeted its incoming executive director.
    Glen Murray — MPP for Toronto Centre and Ontario’s minister for environment and climate change — announced his resignation on Monday in order to take the helm at the Calgary-based Pembina Institute, prompting an early morning cabinet shuffle in Premier Kathleen Wynne’s government.
    Murray, who has built a reputation as a champion of human rights and climate action, will start his new job in September…

    “It’s a job I’ve dreamed of having and it’s an organization which I have such huge respect for, one of the easiest decisions I ever made in my life was filling out the application form for the job at Pembina.”
    The Pembina Institute focuses on generating the research and evidence required to support Canada’s clean energy transition, and has offices in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto and Ottawa…

    As environment minister for Ontario, he said he has helped implement lasting market solutions to the climate crisis, including cap-and-trade legislation with Quebec and California, and the Circular Economy Act, which holds Ontario sellers and producers responsible for end-of-life management of their products and packaging…

    Asked whether Murray’s shift to the think tank, which takes part in lobbying activities, represents a conflict of interest, Pembina Institute responded via email:
    “Glen is aware of the rules governing lobbying and he has had multiple conversations with the integrity commissioner to be sure that everything is square. Like every other minister, Glen will continue to follow the rules of the legislature. All of Pembina’s lobbying work in Ontario will continue to be handled by our current team based out of Toronto.”…

    Over the next month, Murray said he will spend his time working with his “very large, demanding” Toronto constituency to keep his promises and leave the riding in good shape before starting with Pembina on Sept. 5. He will likely spend a lot of time “couch-surfing,” he added, as he hops back and forth between the think tank’s offices across the country…

    News of Murray’s new position at Pembina comes just as another major environmental organization announced its own new executive director. Nature Canada appointed Graham Saul to the top job, after a long career in advocacy for Ecology Ottawa, Climate Action Network Canada, Friends of the Earth Canada and Oil Change International.
    http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/07/31/news/ontario-minister-glen-murray-quits-politics-dream-job

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    pat

    31 Jul: Toronto Sun Editorial: Learn from Ontario’s green energy fiasco
    When it comes to carbon pricing and greenhouse gas reduction schemes, Canada has seen the future and it’s in Ontario.
    Problem is, it’s a mess.
    After boasting for years about closing the last of Ontario’s coal-fired electricity plants in 2014, Premier Kathleen Wynne’s Liberal government is now a not-so proud co-owner of one of the largest coal-fired electricity plants in the United States…

    Meanwhile, 340 workers at a Siemens Canada wind turbine blade manufacturing plant in Tillsonburg, Ont., just lost their jobs.
    The plant was one of four set up under the province’s ill-advised and since dramatically downsized multi-billion dollar green energy deal with South Korea’s Samsung corporation…

    A series of highly critical reports from the province’s Auditor General on the government’s green energy program have led many beleaguered taxpayers to conclude wind turbines and solar panels don’t run on wind and the sun so much as on public subsidies, and only for as long as the subsidies last.

    Wynne’s cap-and-trade carbon pricing scheme, which started Jan. 1 and which she made no mention of imposing in the last election, will be taking almost $2 billion annually out of Ontarians’ pockets, according to the government’s estimates.
    This while Ontarians are saddled with the highest electricity prices in Canada, which have doubled in the past decade.

    Desperate to get re-elected in an election she must call by June, 2018, Wynne will now subsidize hydro rates by $24 billion for the next four years.
    Already the most indebted sub-sovereign borrower in the world, Ontario will borrow between $21 billion and $93 billion more to finance this, according to the province’s Financial Accountability Officer.

    On Monday, Ontario Climate Change Minister Glen Murray announced he’s quitting politics to head an environmental think-tank…
    http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/31/learn-from-ontarios-green-energy-fiasco

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    Dennis

    Article from The Australian regarding UN socialism in moderation?

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    pat

    31 Jul: FinancialPostCanada: Terence Corcoran: Al Gore warns us to watch out for manipulative fearmongers — like him
    Al Gore’s new movie and book are deliberately designed to stir fear in the world’s people, if not terror, of a coming climate apocalypse
    Not many people remember Al Gore’s 2007 book, The Assault on Reason. It came out a year after Gore’s 2006 movie/book combo, An Inconvenient Truth. It’s hard to pick up the 2007 effort without a chuckle. As one reviewer put it at the time, Assault on Reason is “an aptly titled tome” that accurately reflects its contents. Then there’s the book jacket that talks about the “politics of fear” and an opening chapter that warns: “If leaders exploit public fears to herd people in directions they might not otherwise choose, then fear itself can quickly become a self-perpetuating and free-wheeling force that drains national will and weakens national character.”…READ ON
    http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/terence-corcoran-al-gore-warns-us-to-watch-out-for-manipulative-fearmongers-like-him/wcm/3c6d937b-fff2-4764-a781-c25beab8aa0b

    Hail the Carbon Footprint King:

    30 Jul: Guardian: Al Gore: ‘The rich have subverted all reason’
    With the sequel to his blockbuster documentary An Inconvenient Truth about to be released, Al Gore tells Carole Cadwalladr how his role at the forefront of the fight against climate change consumes his life
    When I catch up with him next, he’s in London for a board meeting of his green-focused investment firm, Generation Investment Management, and I ask him to tell me about his recent travels.
    “Two weeks ago, I had three red-eyes in five days. I’ve been in Sweden, the Netherlands, Sharjah, then let’s see, San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles. Where else?” he asks his assistant.
    “Vegas,” she says. “We did CinemaCon.”
    “Vegas, we did that. And then, let’s see, Nashville, on my farm.”

    I assume this amount of travel is connected to the release of the film, but no. “I’ve been at this level for the past 10 years and longer.” He hesitates to use the word “mission”, he says, and then uses it. “When you feel a sense of purpose that seems to justify pouring everything you can into it, it makes it easier to get up in the morning.”…

    In the film, you see him perpetually hustling, calling world leaders, rounding up solar energy entrepreneurs, training activists. Hearing information from “people you know” is at the heart of his strategy. “You need people who will look you in the eye and say: ‘Look, this is what I’ve learned, this is what you need to know.’ It works. I’ve seen it work. It is working. And it’s just getting started. We’ve got 12,000 trained leaders now.”
    How many people do you think it’s impacted?
    “Millions. Honestly, millions. And a non- trivial percentage of them have gone on to become ministers in their countries’ governments or take leadership roles in international organisations. They’ve had an outsized impact.
    *** Christiana Figueres [the UN climate chief], who ran the Paris meeting, she was in the second training session I did in Tennessee. And, right now, people are getting really fired up.”…

    Brexit, Trump, climate change, oil producers, dark money, Russian influence, a full- frontal assault on facts, evidence, journalism, science, it’s all connected. Ask Al Gore. You may want to watch Wonder Woman this summer, but to understand the new reality we’re living in, you really should watch An Inconvenient Sequel: Truth to Power. Because, terrifying as they are, in some ways the typhoons and exploding glaciers are just the start of it…
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/30/al-gore-interview-our-crumbling-planet-the-rich-have-subverted-all-reason-al-gore

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    pat

    both pieces behind paywall.
    no other MSM reporting the Caudwell/green power plant story:

    30 Jul: UK Sunday Times: Oliver Shah: Caudwell in green power plant battle
    The billionaire founder of Phones 4u is facing steep losses amid a row over the collapse of a green energy power plant.
    John Caudwell bought Western Bio-Energy, which runs the wood-fuelled plant in south Wales, with the Green Investment Bank and small investors in 2013.

    The site in Port Talbot was managed on their behalf by Greensphere Capital, a private equity firm backed by veteran investor Jon Moulton.
    The biomass plant, which cost £34m and went live in 2009, burns 80,000 tons of wood a year and generates enough power for 31,000
    homes. Greensphere increased its capacity for burning waste wood, which is cheaper and drier than forestry offcuts, and struck a supply deal with a subsidiary of Stobart Group.
    However, it ran into trouble…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/caudwell-in-green-power-plant-battle-7ttkh5xtx

    30 Jul: UK Sunday Times: Gove’s hot air short-circuits the clean car drive
    by Michael Glackin
    Does anyone remember that summer story a few years back about inner-city squirrels getting high on crack? Apparently the drug-addled rodents were getting their kicks by digging up and eating the stash that human crack addicts had buried in gardens.
    The toked-up tree-dwellers went nuts. They terrorised residents. There was even talk of putting the squirrels on methadone to calm them down.

    Until last week it was my favourite silly season story. But I think Michael Gove’s proposal to ban the sale of new cars with petrol or diesel engines from 2040 trumps it. Truly, this is very midsummer madness.
    Don’t just take my word for it. Stuart Haszeldine, professor of carbon capture and storage at Edinburgh University, told me: “It doesn’t have the hallmarks of a well-thought-through policy. If you’re going to deliver electrification of vehicles, you have to think about how it happens. A thought-through policy would also count the carbon emissions of making electricity at a power plant”…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/goves-hot-air-short-circuits-the-clean-car-drive-szq0zj2tn

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    tom0mason

    Efficiently maximizing performance while minimizing materials use, at a cost customers will pay, is what a free and open market is all about. The use of inefficient methods such as subsidy, and providing products without the performance that customers expects is project doomed to failure. Nearly all Green products are all about the latter not the former.

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    John Soldier

    So the national total of all subsidies to prop up renewables is running at $4.9 billion per year.
    The sickening thing is we have already been paying on an annual basis since this raft of subsidies began – probably about 15 to 20 years.
    The number of Australian households in 2016 (census figures) is around 9 million. That works out to about $544 per year per household.
    Over the last 10 years the figure would be more than $5,000 per household just to prop up renewables that instead of giving us a benefit, have forced up electricity prices more and more each year.
    These facts are never mentioned by the complicit media.
    As Jo said, did any of us agree to do this?
    Was there a plebiscite that we missed?

    Soldier

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