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One day to go before Australia wins Global Hair Shirt

Australia will — bar asteroid impact — get its Carbon Tax on Tuesday.

Otherwise, it’s business as usual in skeptic-world: Wild unheard-of snow started falling early in the US; there’s another story about masses of fossil fuel energy somewhere under Australia, another western nation makes it stark raving clear that it won’t be getting an ETS (Yay for Canada eh), while a different one pulls the pin on solar panel subsidies (Go Britain). The G20 leaders give Julia Gillard the deadly “you are so incredibly brave” speech, and said they aren’t going to follow.

“PM Julia Gillard told by G20: you’re on your own on carbon”

“It’s courageous and innovative and has obviously learned the lesson of every systen that is out there” said Daniel Schwanen (Senior fellow at the Canadian based G20 watchdog, the Centre for International Governance Innovation).

… as far as climate change was concerned “Europe has other fish to fry…”

“I think the leadership of Australia should be acknowledged but it’s not going to be a case of follow the leader,”

Dennis Shanahan reported that all through the G20, climate change is dropping lower down the order of importance.

Tell me again the point of this tax? The reason was obviously not to reduce world temperature by 0.00 C –  it was to “lead the world”, right? The rest of the world has been there, done that, and moved on.

 

See  StopGillardsCarbon Tax for more.

PS: Sorry about that apostrophe. (But hey, I noticed it myself :-) )

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One day to go before Australia wins Global Hair Shirt, 9.0 out of 10 based on 64 ratings

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125 comments to One day to go before Australia wins Global Hair Shirt

  • #
    Pita

    Revenue collected from New Zealand’s ETS included as income in (NZ) Labour party’s budget to fund their election bribes…so much for saving the planet.


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  • #
    Adam Gallon

    The great, moralistic, Jo Abbess, is bemoaning the fact that her solar panel installer, hasn’t done any installing, despite relieving her of a lot of cash.
    Note she’s whining about being unlikely to receive her full cut of the FIT, as her system won’t be up & running prior to the 12th December cut off.
    http://www.joabbess.com/2011/11/01/letter-to-my-solar-installer/
    Never mind saving the planet, just get me my bribe.
    Hypocrite!


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  • #
    Joe V.

    Yees…. Not so much leading the World out of carbon as following the World into recession.
    Or just staying in-step as Julia so coyly puts it. Cannt bear to be left behind.


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  • #

    By the time the next election comes around, people will have had enough of a needless tax in the teeth of the worst recesssion in living memory. Public sentiment worldwide is moving against the Green agenda and Australia will be no different. Gillard and the ALP will be eviscerated in the election because the opposition will simply campaign on a repeal the carbon tax platform. Job done.

    Pointman


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    • #
      Joe V.

      Hmmm… If only it were that simple.

      People have short memories, and a new crisis can always be found to blame & distract them if they need any help forgetting.

      That must have been in the Labour calculation for doing it now, and by the next election the mongrel attack dog will have moved been moved on..


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      • #
        Streetcred

        What could be better than a self induced recession … blamed on the impending Euro-recession of course?


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        • #

          The European currency crisis was inevitable.

          Allowing cheats entry into the Eurozone was a political necessity because … there would have been no members. All those countries that joined the Eurozone fiddled the numbers to make them look right. Many, including Greece, did so in plain view.

          That that was a bad idea became quite evident within 3 years. The USA’s credit crunch in 2008 bled into the EU via the banks only exascerbated the situation. Deutsche Bank is facing prosecution in the USA for knowingly accepting bad loans with the full expectation of a US government bailout. The US government encouraged such lending practices for political reasons; inflating teh bubble. And the money that Deutsche Bank and others lent came, at least in part, from the otherwise-healthy economies of Western Europe. Even some Australian money fell into that hole. (Some of it used to be my superannuation.)

          Suddenly, governments were forced to spend taxpayers’ money in a very big way to support the illusion of idyll and the “best way” was to bail out the institutions with bad debts; who’d knowingly accepted the risk of bad debts. The bailouts crippled functioning economies and lots of pension funds evaporated.

          Where has the money gone? Who has it?


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      • #

        Hi Joe. People actually have good memories. For instance, quite a few people remember the pre-election promise made by a certain politician about no carbon tax in their administration. If the opposition do adopt a policy akin to the one that I suggested, then ther’ll be lots of opportunities to jog people’s memories. Every time the price of anything goes up, blame it publically on Joolya and the ALP.

        Pointman


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        • #
          Joe V.

          I hope your right Pointman. A more immediate ‘crisis’ can always be manufactured by cynical poiticians, but perhaps this one is visceral enough to transcend such maneouvres.
          Lets hope so.


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    • #
      handjive

      The Abbott opposition WILL NOT “repeal the carbon tax platform”:

      The Federal Opposition has confirmed it WILL NOT oppose the Government’s renewable energy agency.

      The Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) is part of the Government’s $10 billion carbon tax package, which the Coalition has promised to rescind if it wins office.

      The Abbott opposition will be reminded of their rank hypocrisy.
      That’s one less vote.


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      • #
        Twodogs

        The $10bn rort for greenies to give to their mates should be high on the agenda for axeing. What point is there in leaving a big bureaucracy full of govt funded greenies who give out favor for their mates? Most of us expect Abbott to be the wrecker. Want to get voted for only once, Tony?


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      • #
        Terry Warren

        If you read the whole of the ABC item it appears that the Opposition believes that ARENA will act as a brake on any more Government foolishness.


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        • #
          handjive

          Terry, indeed, it does say that.

          But, when Abbott made his ‘blood promise’, it didn’t come with any caveats or asterix saying “please read small print’ re: ARENA.

          Every piece of this fraudulent legislation MUST be rescinded and the cO2 lie exposed.

          The Abbott LNP now own the ARENA policy going into the next election, and the lie that carbon dioxide is ‘climate’ pollution, requiring ‘action’ that goes with it.

          Good luck explaining that whilst rescinding the tax.


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          • #
            Gowest

            Two years of slow roasting to go – I will enjoy seeing TA giving it to Julia, Rudd, Smith, Swann .. well whichever “leader” they decide to sacrifice…

            Will also enjoy the public servant sackings that Swanny will have to enact to balance his budget .. oops he hasnt mentioned that yet has he? Sacrifices to the greater good.


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    • #
      memoryvault

      Hi Pointy:

      Long time no see.

      You and the other commenters are assuming that Tony Abbott (he of the “pledges in blood”) will be leading the LNP after the next election.

      I already have one bet for a $50.00 donation to this site, that Turnball will lead the LNP into the next election, or replace Abbott within six months after. I’m prepared to take more.

      For those of you who haven’t as yet noticed, the LNP STILL have a fully-fledged ETS included in their policies, as well as a commitment to the SAME 5% reduction in “carbon pollution”.

      I’m prepared to take similar bets that the whole “carbon tax” thing will not even be an issue at the next election. Both major parties and the media will ignore it and something else will be “the issue of the day” – as alluded to by Joe V above.

      That way, regardless of who wins (Turnball or Rudd), they will be able to claim a “mandate” to proceed with an ETS.


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      • #
        Streetcred

        After his little shenanigan at the weekend, Turnbull has demonstrated why he should not be leader of the LNP. The world moves away from carbon trading and he bashes on with it … the Member for Goldman Sachs.


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      • #
        Popeye

        The reason WHY the coalition leads Labor by 54 – 46 TPP (and this is now “solid”) is BECAUSE of Tony Abbott.

        Turnbull is a “has been” and will NEVER lead the Liberal Party again.

        Tony A will ditch the ETS and global warming BS during the course of the next federal election campaign and as a result will ROMP it in.

        The cricket bats are out!!

        Tony will claim victory at about 6:45pm on election evening.

        BTW – Greens down to single digits (9%) – and long may they stay there!!

        Cheers,


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      • #
        catamon

        that Turnball will lead the LNP into the next election, or replace Abbott within six months after

        I’d give Abbott till just after the budget in 2012. Do you reckon any of the other Libs would want to replace him before then and have to give a budget reply speech if the ALP do pull off a surplus??

        While i think Turnbull as LOTO would actually represent the greatest threat to the ALP in 2013, his fellow Libs hate him worse than the ALP Caucus hates Rudd. I reckon Morrison to replace Abbott, but if they actually have a sense of humor, they will stick Julie Bishop in.

        Anyhow, i’ll watch the skies in case of asteroid strike but am expecting much celebration by the Collective Tuesday night. Will be interesting to watch the unhingement going on in the Senate tomorrow.

        Is there enough popcorn i wonder??


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        • #
          Sean McHugh

          While i think Turnbull as LOTO would actually represent the greatest threat to the ALP in 2013, his fellow Libs hate him worse than the ALP

          And one completely trusts that rusted-on leftists like Catamon, in barracking ad nauseam for Turnbull to take over as Opposition leader, only want what is best for the Coalition. Geez, they’re such honest and generous guys! I’d buy a bridge from them any day.


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      • #
        Gee Aye

        Small point… Tony Abbott is already not the leader of the LNP. Never has been and never will be.

        Not that I ever nit pick


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  • #
    Phillip Bratby

    Solar subsidies in the UK may have been cut, but there remain massive renewable energy subsidies which are unaffordable and will lead to increased fuel poverty and further industrial decline. We have to get rid of the loony Huhne (see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8872269/Chris-Huhne-was-as-wrong-about-the-euro-as-he-is-now-about-the-wind.html) and somehow we have to stop offshore wind farms (see http://thegwpf.org/uk-news/4279-saving-britains-economy-ditch-expensive-wind-farms.html)
    How do we get rid of the lunatics who are in charge of the asylum that the UK has become?


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    • #

      I’m afraid there is no hope for the Formerly Great Britain.

      I said about 12 months ago that migration from GB to Australia would surge. That’s a brain drain GB can’t afford to have.
      Immigration figures would be interesting.


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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Mass migration of Brits to Australia would probably raise the IQ of both countries :-)


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        • #
          Winston

          I don’t think the emigration of the Gillard’s did much for the collective IQ of our country. Wales’ gain was our loss, unfortunately.


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        • #
          Tristan

          I can’t speak for the rest of her clan, but Julia Gillard’s political acumen aside – The woman is very smart.


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          • #
            Winston

            Julia is only “very smart” academically for rote learning facts, a small component of intelligence. Every policy decision of her design of any import has foundered in a sea of unplanned for and unintended consequences- a sure sign of someone blissfully ignorant of the full ramifications of her actions, suggesting dogged stubbornness, not intuitiveness or comprehensive wisdom. She also lacks emotional intelligence being unable to read the mood of the electorate, or often her colleagues. She has an over-riding contempt for self made people who show initiative and have ambition or an ethos for hard work. Her character judgement in her formative relationship with a certain union boss was poor, and overall she inspires no one with her patronizing tone, grating voice and imperviousness to reason. Aside from that, she’s got a lot going for her.


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          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            I will give you that she is smart, well she certainly does dress very stylishly, if not fashionably.

            But when it comes to cognitive ability, I think Winston has her number.


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      • #
        DJA

        Can we swap 800 climate change believers for 4000 sceptics.


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  • #
    Joe V.

    UK power companies are encouraging the installation of domestic smart meters, with the suggestion of preferential tarrifs in the future.
    The reality is the power companies will then be able to regulate demand ( as they currently only regulate supply), by turning your dishwasher, washing machine, etc off remotely, as they will be forced to do when a greater proportion of power comes from unreliable sources such as wind mills..
    Apperently they learned this trick from the Dutch, who are already masters of wind power & run a lot of the wind generating capacity in England, which is already being exported to Holland.


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  • #
    Ferdinand

    Many here in the UK are ashamed of Welsh Gillard. We don’t understand how a great friend of Britain has acquired such a PM. Yes we have severe problems here due mainly to the last Labour government and the idiotic Eurozone but it is almost matched by your incomprehesible and foolish carbon tax.


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  • #
    Peter Hartley

    Someone who can draw needs to make a cartoon of a “co2 cart” with it’s wheels falling off, flies buzzing around, everyone else jumping off, but Gillsrd dragging Australia down the track shouting “wait for us, wait for us”


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  • #
    Joe V.

    What happens to Labour Leaders that become an embarrassment to their party ?
    In Europe there is a post democratic instution for them to join when they become unelectable.
    They have a lot more power as European Commissioners than they even did as elected politicians.

    It used to be thought they were out of the way and could do no real harm ‘over there’, but that’s all changed as soverrignty has gradually been ceded to the EU.


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  • #
    Andrew McRae

    Nothing short of a massive multimodal protest from the people during the next 12 hours is going to stop this on Tuesday.

    If these politicians actually wanted to know about the issue, they would have found the truth by now. They do not want to know. They are beyond reason, or reason is not an option. We can’t reason with them. Undermining their faith in the IPCC won’t work because they aren’t doing any of this for scientific reasons, it’s become a party suicide pact.

    I cannot be the first person in history to despair about the wrecks of the unruly mob. But it would be stupid to place this huge burden on myself, since I’m just one guy. Somehow societies survived travesties like this before, we have to do the same. In ten years’ time when the proof of an innocuous climate is obvious to even the most ardent dyed-green-in-the-wool warmist, there will be no apology to us, and we are not going to feel very smug about having been “right”. We’re just going to be glad it is over. The truth always comes out.


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  • #
    Mike W

    The truth always comes out.

    Yes it does..but we will still get the tax..
    We just have to make sure we dont get the CO2 trading which even the AGW trolls that come to this forum are too embarrassed to try and defend.
    This whole debacle will be a sociologists delight in about 50 years.
    The scientists will blame the politicians for “twisting” their work.
    The politicians will blame the scientists for telling them…what they wanted to here.
    Some People swallowed the mad meme..most politicians just didnt have time to reflect or examine the “story.
    Look at Tony Windsor for example..
    Bizarre times we live in eh. :) ?


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  • #
    Another Ian

    From comments at

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/05/ncdc-data-shows-that-the-contiguous-usa-has-not-warmed-in-the-past-decade-summers-are-cooler-winters-are-getting-colder/#more-50527


    thought i’d post in case anyone was interested…
    Beth Cooper says:
    November 5, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    Oh the rate of warmin’s slowin’
    And the skepticism’s growin’
    And the snow it keeps on snowin’
    And the data it is showin’
    Which way the wind is blowin….
    Just sayin’.”

    Might be time to check ugg-boots


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  • #
    Konrad

    Jo,
    What may be needed is a “Roll of Shame”. An easy to cut and paste list of all the Australian politicians who voted in favour of this insane tax in both the house of representatives and the senate. This list could also be arranged as a web page with all of the names of the guilty in the header. This would ensure that any web search for those politicians names would offer the “Roll of Shame” as one of the results. Given how popular sceptic web sites are and how unpopular the majority of Australian politicians are, with a little effort a “Roll of Shame” could become the top search result for the majority of those politicians on it.


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  • #
    Bulldust

    Got to love the use of Yes Minister verbiage … courageous and innovative are clearly code words for dumb and dumber. Not that she will pay any heed, she really is THAT economically naive.


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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      No, she is that dumb.

      Overheard in the corridors of Westminster: “Did somebody say her name was Gizzard?”, “No, Gillard, with two L’s”, “Ah, that’s what I thought, although I took it to be ‘Dullard’, and I thought, ‘how apropos’”.


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  • #
    Bulldust

    And we’re off and running… one day before the CO2 tax passes and one company claims they are aborting their proposed methanol project in Australia in favour of China, blaming the tax for the shift:

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/national/11428884/pm-betrays-her-own-workers-oppn/

    Not only that, they will utilise coal rather than LNG in China making it more emissions intensive. /golfclap Joooolya, your tax just increased emissions and it hasn’t even started yet.


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  • #
    reformed warmist of logan

    Congratulations Labor (& Greens & Independents),
    Step 1 complete: A compliment from the ‘main game’ (G20) which some may dream is further proof of their ‘right-ness’! But, the rub is, when the in-famous Sir Humphrey used the word ‘courageous’ it normally implied two closely-related things … a rash decision (often errant), closely followed by a rather large serve of humble pie, and lashings of accompanying back-down measures!!
    Step 2 is less than eight weeks away. Come Jan. 1 when the EU. tries to enforce its ETS. on all in-bound flights, and on all the millions of km’s. not travelled inside the EU., many non-euro. airlines will start either reducing services &/or retaliatory measures eg. Russia may double its fly-over charges to all euro-airlines. (Needless to say this will probably only last a month or so til EU. most likely backs-down, this will in-turn make labor et all look even more brain-deadeningly out-of-step than they already look!!!)
    Then of course, Steps 3 & 4, probably before Easter…a Labor leadership change, then an early election soon-after.
    Regards, reformed warmist.


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    • #
      Robert

      The corporate big wigs (who could video conference but seldom do) won’t care they will keep flying. However I do know a number of people here in the US that were planning vacations in Europe that are now looking for somewhere else to go. They realize who it will be in the end that will end up paying the added costs the ETS will impose upon the airlines and are now looking at things like Caribbean cruises and the like.

      It is going to be real interesting to see how badly their ETS screws up the tourism revenue stream.


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  • #
    elsie

    I wrote yesterday a comment in the ‘Matt Ridley On Scientific Heresy’ about impacts from space. This was prior to the channel 7 TV broadcast last night. By sheer co-incidence I have been reading a book, “Impact” by Gerrit Verschuur 1997.

    It may be a little outdated but it was written after the Shoemkaker-Levy comet hit Jupiter in 1994 and the 6 hour miss of an asteroid we had in 1983. Also, it is after the slow acceptance by astronomers of a giant asteroid hitting near the Yucatan Peninsula 65 million years ago which may have wiped out the dinosaurs.

    For about 400 years astronomers have derided the idea of big impacts by smaller but deadly asteroids or comets. They have preferred to rely on the geologists saying changes come slowly via erosion, evolution, etc.

    It was ‘bad luck’ that the 1910 hit in Siberia was unnoticed. Four hours later it may have hit Germany killing 5 million changing history. But,and here is the point, attention would have focused on such dangers.

    All the CO2 emissions and plans for clean green energy and the costs plus research will be not worth a hill of beans if one of these beasts are headed our way. One big hit could wipe out our civilisation/s sending surviving humans back to the stone age.

    When? Well it used to be nice to say maybe in a million or 100 000 or 10 000 years. But it could be next week. Odds are useless…in a horse race ‘odds’ don’t matter just as long as a horse wins.


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  • #
    Scarface

    So, from Tuesday on, you will have the Australian Calendar, starting with year 1 AC (after carbon).

    Congratulations! You’ve come a long way!


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  • #
    Bruce of Newcastle


    “Otherwise, it’s business as usual in skeptic-world”

    Sigh, have to agree. Today my local council is panicking about sea level:

    Lake calls for intervention on rising sea levels

    “Cr Johnston attended yesterday’s Lake Macquarie City Council community workshop on sea level rises and flooding at Swansea, where he said much of area was expected to be under water by 2100.”

    “Mayor Greg Piper said on his website it was impossible to dismiss the position of the significant number of scientific institutions around the world, including the CSIRO.”

    Well, I can dismiss CSIRO and the IPCC. I’ve worked with CSIRO people on projects for decades – they’ve always been apprehensive about funding and faced with a giant flood of climate money the result is predictable. Bandwagon time. And as for Dr Clark, who I have previously had a lot of time for, I now read that her family company is a carbon farming operation which presumably stands to benefit from the carbon tax. Well, good luck Dr Clark, but if I were you I’d get out of that business before the bubble bursts.

    And no, Swansea isn’t about to drown by 2100. One day the IPCC might deign to explain just why sea levels have been falling the last couple of years. Then tell Mayor Piper MP.


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    • #

      Just left a reply at #12, I think it will be the CSIRO, and in particular, Dr Church, that will need to explain itself about why the seas haven’t swamped Swansea, and temperatures haven’t consigned everyone to new pastures on Antarctica…


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  • #
    JMD

    Yeah well, you will insist on hacking at the branches Jo.

    No one gives a shit about the science because science has never had anything to do with a carbon ‘tax’.


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  • #
    Brett_McS

    The upside is a cast iron guarantee that Labor will be routed, whomever is their leader and whenever the election is called. And that upside only exists because Turnbull was given the heave ho on the other side, and because his replacement is standing against the greenie madness – so kudos to the opposition for living up to its name. (Gawd, imagine the extent of the “choice” we’d have had with Turnbull still as “opposition” leader! *Shudder*)


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  • #
    Colin Henderson

    If hired by ????? to help relocate manufacturing to that country and cripple the West I would take advantage of the UN’s desire to redistribute wealth and propagate a global warming scam. Countries that were duped by the fraud would go green, jacking up their energy prices and driving manufacturing jobs overseas. Patsy politicians would be paid/pensioned off by their taxpayers and the G20 would collapse as I wallowed in wealth.


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  • #
    Rodzki

    “It’s courageous and innovative and has obviously learned the lesson of every systen that is out there” said Daniel Schwanen (Senior fellow at the Canadian based G20 watchdog, the Centre for International Governance Innovation).

    Shouldn’t that be spelt “cistern”?


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  • #
    Sean McHugh

    I wonder how many of the public will remember back, a short time ago, when the government line was that we needed to do our bit and needed to catch up. Recall what Ross Garnaut said:

    “It’s simply impractical for us to think of leading the world,” he said.

    “We’re so far behind, we need to catch up and be in the middle of developed countries.”

    Now G20 is telling us the opposite and telling us how brave Australia is in leading the way, while cautioning us that that is a nice way of saying, ‘going it alone’. How many will realise that once again this government has lied grossly to us? Australians should be furious.


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  • #
    Bulldust

    Speaking of solar panels, NSW has now discovered how well Labor managed the scheme before the Libs came to power in a landslide:

    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/auditorgeneral-reveals-4-billion-blowout-in-solar-bonus-scheme-20111107-1n2nk.html

    Mr Achterstraat said the Labor government failed to carry out a cost/benefit analysis for the scheme before it was implemented and there was no contingency planning.

    Hang on .. that sounds familiar… CO2 tax anyone? Where’s the benefit:cost studies? Labor has a nasty habit of driving through policies based on grand ideas or ideologies without looking at the bottom line impacts. You think NSW can waste money? Just wait till the Federal legislation starts wasting it on tokenistic green projects.


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    • #

      I agree Bulldust Labor indeed has a historical record of doing this sort of thing but what excuses do the other number of federal members and senators have for towing the Labor/Green line.

      Very few of them are being respectful of their constituents and as said before they should all be named on a “Shame List” and be exiled from politics for the rest of their lives with no recourse and no Superannuation!

      Say YES to an election now !!


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  • #
    Crakar24

    After reading all the posts i would just like to say this.

    We will get this stupid tax whether we like it or not and God have mercy on our souls

    The LNP have a TAX policy because Labour hac=ve one and one only our only hope is to vote them in at the next election so we can get rid of it

    And finally what this country needs right now is not a politician that wants an emissions trading scheme (ETS) but a politician who has Elephant Testical Syndrome (ETS) or to put it another way balls so big they clink when they walk not some pretender that likes to pander to the world leaders like some submissive lap dog.

    What has happened to this great country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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  • #
    Joe Lalonde

    Jo,

    Watch the precipitation.
    Next sign is the drop in ocean water levels.
    By the time climate science gets a pattern of cooling through their temperature data, many people will have been sacrificed.
    Thirty years before they realize the temperatures are not coming back up by their pattern?

    Interesting how 90% of the worlds fresh water is at the poles . Coming up from the equatorial region of oceans and never crossing it is water vapour to the poles.


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      Crakar24

      Do you really think so Joe?

      I understand some of that is just wishful thinking but in reality what will most likely happen is the temps will randomly walk the way they have, it might dip a bit more over the next decade or so and then it will randomly rise for the next 30 years or so.

      There will be no massive cooling or heating just the same stuff as before, yes eventually we may drop into an ice age but it aint going to happen soon and regardless if the LNP cannot recind the tax then either can anyone else even the morons that voted it in.

      The TAX is in, the TAX is here to stay no matter what the weather does. We have lost this battle but not the war. The next step is smart meters where they ration your power (when the TAX dont work on dropping emissions more drastic action will be needed).

      They could apply another tax depending on engine size and K’s driven

      They could apply another tax on home efficiency

      They could apply another tax on how many kids you have

      They could apply another tax based on your lifestyle

      They could bring in zero population growth

      They could limit the foods you buy to ones that produce zero/low emissions to produce

      And the list goes on……………………..

      We need to vote these F%$^&ers out in order to get our country back. THE NANNY STATE MUST END


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  • #
    Allen Ford

    Andrew McRae #10

    If these politicians actually wanted to know about the issue, they would have found the truth by now. They do not want to know. They are beyond reason, or reason is not an option. We can’t reason with them. Undermining their faith in the IPCC won’t work because they aren’t doing any of this for scientific reasons, it’s become a party suicide pact.

    It is not possible to communuicate with those who have the mentality of a brick.


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    elsie

    I meant to add that the theory of massive impact strikes from space can account for the sudden but mysterious events of climate change. Not all impacts have to be of the sort which killed off the dinosaurs. It has to be emphasised that there is no object in our solar system that doesn’t show repeated hits from tiny to large. Even asteroids show craters all over them. The earth’s atmosphere has eroded most. Just because there is no record of a huge hit in a populated are over the past, say 10,000years, proves absolutely nothing. There are 2500 asteroids closely monitored at the present time. Billions of asteroids are in the Kuiper asteroid belt outside Pluto and trillions in the Oort cloud. Comets can come from ANY angle and ANY time from the latter source. Periodic comets are rare. The fact we are having a near miss with an asteroid this week should shake us up from the Greens lullaby that we will all be cosy and happy with co-existence with nature. An impact will be far far worse than earthquakes or hurricanes. Nature and Gaia are not kind and will not protect the most emphatic of Greens worried about 2100. Their arguments will just be a moot point if even just a 100m object heads our way before then.


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      Mark D.

      Elsie, I can’t argue with anything in your post. I do wonder though, if warming proves to not be caused by co2, maybe they’ll “find” that co2 attracts those massive alien impacts.

      Just wait and see……..


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        Crakar24

        I will give it a crack Mark,

        Actually i am torn between two theories

        Theory 1,

        As has already been suggested Aliens have already noticed our intentional destruction of the biosphere and may attack us….i suggest they do it by throwing rocks at us just like that stupid bug show whos name i cannot recall.

        Theory 2,

        All that extra CO2 in the atmosphere is having an effect on the spin rate of the planet

        Theory 2.1

        The spin rate is affecting the plates (more earth quakes) but importantly increasing (or if you like decreasing) our magnetic field which will cause rocks to slam into us.

        Theory 2.2

        As the spin rate changes so does our orbit (slightly) this will push us into the path of an oncoming rock (if this prediction fails to pan out we can also sow the seeds of doubt by suggesting the change in orbit will change the climate). The beauty of this theory is that we can now finally explain why it is getting colder.

        International Perverse Cash Collection (IPCC)


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      Crakar24

      Hi Elsie,

      You reminded me of story from back in day when i used to frequent a warm bot site that was not skeptic friendly. I had a long running gun battle with them that spread across all aspects of the AGW scam (note warm bots dont concede a point they just change the subject) hence i had to endure many changes in subject.

      They finally decided that the ditch they were to die in was the precautionary principle, this as we know means that even IF the science is wrong we cannot take that risk so as a precaution we must act and so the self fulfilling prophecy of taking action is maintained.

      At this point i changed tact and rather than debate this absurdity i agreed and then mentioned the piece of rock (aptly) named after the Egyptian God of defication of darkness and chaos (he was an evil God). Now this rock will come between us and the geo stationary satellites which means it will be within one earth diameter of us in 2029 and may come even closer in 2036. My point was that the chances of a chunk of rock hitting us is 100% it is only a matter of time so as a precaution we should be building bunkers in case this known event happens in our life times.

      The result was that the warm bots abandoned the precautionary principle and attacked the science around Apophis (what do those stupid russians know anyway). Notice the subtle change in topic?

      In the end if you are debating a warm bot and they start talking about the precautionary principle then you know you have them beat….but be warned you still need to land the knockout blow.


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        reformed warmist of logan

        A’noon Crakar,
        Thanks ever-so-much for that “hoary lil’ chestnut” …
        That would have to be one of the deadliest anti-green / anti-agw. arguments I’ve heard in the last two years.
        You should be very proud of yourself.
        (I hope you don’t mind if I borrow it from time to time – credit will of course be given.)
        Kindest Regards,
        Reformed Warmist, Logan (S-E Qld.)


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        Screw building bunkers. We’re Humans, not moles. We go out and find the rocks and explode nuclear charges near them to deflect them. That’s how we’ll go out too. Ever hear of Project Orion? Freeman Dyson worked on it and his son George has written a history of it. There was a small scale demonstration for Wehrner von Braun and he became an instant convert which says lots good about him as his life’s work up to that time was in large liquid fueled chemical rockets. When shown something clearly better he got on board even though it “wasn’t invented here”.
        Ground launched nuclear pulse propulsion rockets have the fortunate side effect of causing greenie heads to explode too, at the mere idea of it.


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    pat

    6 Nov: UK Daily Mail: Wind farms producing more harm than energy as they disrupt radar systems and cause a blow to taxpayers
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058342/Wind-farms-producing-harm-energy-disrupt-radar-systems-cause-blow-taxpayers.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    6 Nov: SMH: AAP: Brown labels Greens most ‘exciting’ party
    THE Australian Greens are the ”anti-absurd party” and have become the ”ideas bank” for policy in federal Parliament, Greens leader Bob Brown said…
    The Greens were now influencing the policy decisions of both the federal Labor government and the opposition, he said.
    Brown noted that the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, received accolades at the G20 summit in Cannes for her carbon tax, but said the Greens deserved equal credit.
    ”Julia Gillard has got very deserved plaudits in this national forum for the great breakthrough in Australian legislation,” he told reporters outside the conference.
    ”But we Greens know we can also accept that without us being there, and the 1.6 million people who voted for us, it wouldn’t be happening.”…
    He said the world’s population had just passed 7 billion, but many business and political leaders were still pushing for an ever-increasing population and ever-increasing consumption of resources to maintain growth.
    ”They follow the old absurdity that you must continue to increase the number of mammals on the planet in the form of Homo sapiens, all consuming more on a finite planet.
    ”We all have the commonsense to know that can’t happen,” he said. ”It becomes absurd and we are the anti-absurd party.”…
    http://www.smh.com.au/queensland/brown-labels-greens-most-exciting-party-20111105-1n1ii.html

    6 Nov: SMH: AAP: Senate gears up for carbon tax vote
    “Putting a price on carbon will break the link between emissions growth and economic growth,” Mr Swan said in his weekly economic note on Sunday…
    If opinion polls are a reliable indication, the carbon tax has the backing of fewer than four in 10 Australians…
    The government believes a generous compensation package for low-income households and a less-than-feared impact on the cost of living will prevent it suffering the same fate as its former leader when voters next go to the polls…
    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/senate-gears-up-for-carbon-tax-vote-20111106-1n1qo.html

    Joe V -
    EU Commissioner, Jose Manuel Barroso’s recent visit to Australia to praise the Govt’s carbon tax/ETS was no surprise. it was, btw, the first EU Commissioner visit to Australia in three decades. the EU is the USSR on steroids, and it pains me that we have all lost our sovereignty and democratic rights to such unelected, unaccountable, supranational organisations:

    6 Sept: ANU: Keynote address by His Excellency Mr José Manuel Barroso, President of the European Commission
    Europe’s global interests
    To put that in an overall strategic context, the 27 member states of the European Union are sharing sovereignty…
    Climate
    Moving onto one of the most complex and lasting issues of our time. A new Framework Agreement between the European Union and Australia would also increase the scope for closer cooperation on energy and climate issues.
    The green economy is the economic growth story of Europe’s future, and indeed the world. That is the only way to satisfy the aspirations of the nine or more billions who will live on this planet in 2050.
    Our approach to climate change is therefore built on science but tailored to economic realities and possibilities. You could say Europe is pursuing green reforms and innovation for three reasons: science, self-interest and our sense of responsibility to future generations.
    Australia must naturally define its own interests, and pursue them through the mechanisms of its choice. But it is clear that carbon pricing and trading is an opportunity for nations to firmly stake a place at the centre of the next great economic and political theme faced jointly by all of us…
    The pricing and trading of carbon enables more efficient markets and forces us to allocate our resources more effectively, for example by increasing capital investment in new technologies in the manufacturing sector…
    For these reasons the European Union welcomes the Australian Government’s efforts to tackle the carbon issue, and to develop a policy that will over time link to our own…
    http://news.anu.edu.au/?p=11051


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      Winston

      THE Australian Greens …..have become the ”ideas bank” for policy in federal Parliament, Greens leader Bob Brown said…

      It’s about time someone made a deposit in that Green “bank” of theirs.


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        Streetcred

        Bobby might be right, Winston … Gillard certainly has no idea so it stands to reason that the Australian Green ‘Ideas’ Party must be the “ideas bank” behind the catastrophe that is this federal government.


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    Rick Bradford

    Tell me again the point of this tax?

    1. To assuage Comrade Gillard’s hatred of successful businesses

    2. To feed her only lifelong project — her personal ego and vanity project.


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    pat

    7 Nov: Climate Spectator: Giles Parkinson: GREEN DEALS: Carbon deals begin to flow
    Bank of America Merrill Lynch has helped Australian project developer Cool nrg International secure a climate finance agreement in Mexico that will enable it to step up its distribution of energy efficient lighting in that country. The agreement, which includes a “first-of-its-kind” carbon royalty agreement, and also involves a Mexican government trust established to promote energy efficiency in Mexico, will enable Cool nrg to scale up its activities and deliver 45 million compact fluorescent light bulbs in the Mexican residential sector.
    It says this will reduce greenhouse emissions by 16 million tonnes over 10 years and deliver energy savings of 33,000HWh over the same period, while also deferring the need for up to 1,740MW of capacity…
    The complex royalty agreement negotiated by Merrill Lynch gives the Mexican government a share of the profits from the credits, in the same way as a state government in Australia gains royalties from mining operations. Merrill Lynch’s head of carbon markets Abyd Karmali said the use of the innovative royalty arrangement was as an example of the type of public-private partnership necessary to unlock greater flows of low-carbon finance from the private sector…

    Solar fail
    In his findings, Auditor-General Peter Achterstraat found that if the scheme had continued unchecked, its estimated cost would have reached $3,988 billion by October 2010 – more than 10 times the original estimate of $362 million…
    “The Scheme lacked the most elementary operational controls, had no overall plan and risks were poorly managed,” Achterstraat said on Monday. “I anticipate that the total tariffs to be paid under the Scheme will be between $1.05 billion and $1.75 billion,’ he said. “The government’s projected Scheme cost is at the upper end of this range. This is mainly because it has assumed very good energy output from the Solar panels over seven years.” Achterstraat pointed to the many variables that make it difficult to be certain about the cost of the Solar Bonus Scheme: Changing weather patterns, the orientation of the solar cells to the sun, shading, and the quality of products and their installation all effect performance…
    It was a statutory requirement that the government review the scheme when 50 mega watts of installed capacity was reached. But by the time the review was completed, installed capacity had reached 101 mega watts…

    Going to California
    Australian firm Carbon Training International says it has signed a deal to export its carbon management courses to the University of California, as that state prepares to introduce its own carbon pricing scheme. CTI executive chairman Bruce Thomas says the carbon management course will be delivered through through UCLA Extension, a leading provider of business education in California. The first course will be delivered in January.
    Thomas says it will be the first carbon management course in the US and will assist business and communities adapt to the cap-and-trade regulation that comes into effect in 2013 in California…
    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/green-deals-carbon-deals-begin-flow


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    Bulldust

    The ABC has trotted out yet another “consensus science” puff piece:

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3638250.html

    The usual ferals are out in force (presumably they got some time off from occupying city centres… one of the usual suspects GraemeF went off on a typical rant:

    GraemeF :
    07 Nov 2011 12:11:40pm
    Denialists don’t work on cutting edge science so there is little likelyhood of a new Galileo.
    Denialists lurk around the outer of science trying to twist public opinion and poke at a mountain of evidence with a stick, looking for weaknesses. They find a perceived weakness then they run around hooting until proper scientists put them back in the place. Think ‘Climategate’ that has been investigated by at least four different independent authorities and been cleared. Think conflicting arguments, ‘its cooling’ or ‘its warming naturally’ or its warming and mankind is to blame but this is good because CO2 is plant food so don’t do anything.
    The denialist movement is purely political, science comes a distant last.

    Let’s see if my response to him and the article makes it in:

    And your evidence for this is? Unsubstantiated claims are simply that… claims.

    What you and Mr Grant are blissfully ignorant of is the obvious impact of Government funding in this debate. Throw enough money at one side of any debate and you will find the “experts” dutifully lining up behind your position. Sure there will be a few who remain skeptical, as scientists should always be, but the “consensus” will support the funded view.

    To suggest that this is not the case is to completely ignore human nature. I think a few readings of the chapters of Freakonomics and/or Superfreaknomics (both by Levitt and Dubner) should remind one and all that humans react predictably to incentives. Billions of dollars of Government funding is a very, very powerful incentive. As everyone knows, it is publish or perish in academia (I know, I was there for some years), and funding is of great assistance in that endeavor.

    What about “”Big oil”" (needs extra-scary quotes) funding? Well most skeptics are still waiting for that supposed gravy train to come in, while the “consensus” scientists are languishing in holiday destinations having to endure endless IPCC sessions…


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      cohenite

      Good luck with your reply Bulldust; our abc is becoming more strident as the ‘reality’ of the lie of AGW becomes more apparent. These idiots, the 99%, will become more visible as a distraction from the manifest failures of this stupid, malignant government; as the mouthpiece of the far left and the greens the abc will also become more strident and peddle the rubbish from the likes of this GreaemeF and his fellow loons; they are not interested in a fair debate and it is becoming increasingly apparent that Howard’s worst mistake was not emasculating or closing down the abc when he had the chance.


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    elsie

    One point I was trying to make was that humans, with their technology, may just be able to avoid a disaster from space. This not something the dinosaurs could do. In fact, it is not something any species including mankind up to now could do. Who knows what changes in our history as homo-sapiens have occurred over the past few hundred thousand years were caused by these numerous rocks. We have to get out of the idea that space is so so very empty. One wonders how many earth like planets in the universe that have had life are gone because of collisions. The neat idea that life will serenely continue here until the sun becomes a red giant has to be erased from common conception.


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      Crakar24

      Elsie

      Apophis in 2029 will pass between the Earth and the geo sats, a geo sat is 35, 900 K’s above the Earth. Lets assume for a moment it was going to hit, how in the hell could we stop it?

      Do you think we can even tell how close it will come (considering the margin for error) with any accuracy? The point is this thing will come close and if it does hit could be an ELE. But where are the bunkers? Where the precautions being taken?

      The warnbots have no comeback to this so if one spews out the PP about AGW ask them where is it for an asteriod strike and they will scurry back under the rock from whence they came.


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        Further to my earlier reply, if we are really clever we put the asteroid in Earth orbit. Big thermonuclear charges are relatively cheap. Hopefully it is a big one(millions of tons) full of interesting elements. Anybody want to buy shares in Black Sky Mining?


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      Robert

      Hey Elsie,

      You said:

      One point I was trying to make was that humans, with their technology, may just be able to avoid a disaster from space. This not something the dinosaurs could do. In fact, it is not something any species including mankind up to now could do.

      Unfortunately people like Gillard, Gore, etc. are trying their best to make sure we lose the ability to do anything about that. The more I watch this dog and pony show the more I realize they do not want useful technology, they want feel good technology.

      Me I prefer the useful kind.


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      cohenite

      If you want to know what an impact from an asteroid the size of Apophis would do to Earth google Tunguska. The point is about $70 trillion has been spent on AGW, more than enough to have set up some sort of planetary defence mechanism to protect the Earth from REAL catatrophic natural events like meteor impacts.


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        Crakar24

        What saved us with Tunguska is that it never touched down but broke up in the atmosphere, imagine if it had of impacted?

        Of course there is an alternative theory that it was a methane bubble or something that went pop (due to a lack of point of impact).

        Anyway your point is made very well Cohenite.


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    elsie

    Back to CO2. I was amazed on “Meet The Press” yesterday that Sen Christine Milne so candidly admitted that Gillard did indeed lie about “There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead.” Milne said that Julia certainly changed her view in order to have the Greens on board to gain power. This proves they are so arrogant that they are smug enough to admit their devious lies. How can we ask our children or grandchildren to be honest and not to lie when our leaders are so blatant about lying that they are proud of being so?


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      Crakar24

      I have heard these words spoken by others (Bandt comes to mind), the word you are looking for is contempt.

      Gillard did the deal to stay in power, the greens know full well that they will never be a major party so had to stitch up the ETS with a no sun set clause and will leave is with a gift that we cannot return.

      So in the end we got something that 90 odd % of the people did not vote for, we have had no say in this tax and our protestations have been ignored.

      Can anyone say DICTATORSHIP?


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      Bruce of Newcastle

      If you’re not doing anything Wednesday and you have a 15 cm reflector you just might be able to see Apophis’s big sister go past at 325,000 km.

      2005 YU55 – it’s bigger than Apophis and on Wednesday, it will pass closer than the moon

      Unfortunately closest approach is at 10.38 AM, so seeing it would be tough. But at 400 m diameter it would make a bit of a bang if it ever hit.


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    The Black Adder

    It is very depressing to have been listening to ABC Newsradio (live from the Senate regarding the Carbon Tax Legislation) all morning and listening to the waffle coming out of the ALP/Green Govt. and Ms. Penny Wongs lips.
    Nearly every time her lips moved, there was a lie.
    Not to mention the big lie that “there will be no Carbon Tax under the Govt. I lead!”

    It really is 5 minutes to midnight now and only a matter of hours to this is actually going to happen.

    I can’t believe it !! What are we doing Australia !!

    Please if there is a God out there… 1 big bolt of lightening towards Canberra please…..


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    Rereke Whakaaro

    … while a different one pulls the pin on solar panel subsidies …

    There is a large grocery warehouse where Mrs Whakaaro is inclined to shop (when in need of large groceries).

    They have a large LCD display by their (electric powered) lifts that cycles through a number of screens that show: the status of their 60 solar panel array, shows a calculation of how much CO2 they have “avoided” by having this array, and what the current power output is, et cetera.

    One of the screens proudly boasts that “60 Solar Panels, installed on the roof, creates the equivalent of 10,000 Watts/Hour of electricity”. Now leaving aside the “equivalent bit”, 10,000/60 = 167W/h = two medium sized incandescent bulbs (which they no longer sell, by the way).

    So the advantage of having these things is …?


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    Michael

    The Liberals should have forced the legislation through even harder. The more flaws the
    legislation is allowed (they could suggest dumb ammendants for the Greens to introduce), the easily it is to appeal in the High Court later.


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    elsie

    Well, smashing an asteroid with nukes is not a good idea. The pieces that remain could still do a lot of harm and fall to earth just as the intact body would have.
    A large rocket to hit the body may nudge it out of its track or, if technology improved, an attached rocket could steer it and future dangerous objects off course.
    But the CO2 debate has increased the complacency about near earth objects.
    In 1991 it was said that a large comet would never be seen to hit another planet in our lives. That statement was shattered in 1994 Each bit that hit Jupiter was of the size that wiped out the dinosaurs.
    Some idiot early in the 1900s wrote that Venus was ejected by Jupiter and caused havoc here. Then a Planet X was supposed to be a curse. These stories of fiction hid the real science of Near Earth Objects.
    Trouble is, $billions are spent on trying to see the edges of the universe. But we need to see what is in our neighborhood more closely.


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    elsie

    Just a rider to what Sen’ Christine Milne said yesterday. She made no bones about calling the Carbon Tax an ETS. You see, I and others thought that a CO2 tax was not to be an ETS until about 3 or so years time. But, hey, what’s in a name? A stinking Roger is a stinking Roger by any other name. It is hard to keep up with the semantic changes the Greens and warmists keep inventing or interchanging.


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  • #

    The G20 leaders give Julia Gillard the deadly “you are so incredibly brave” speech, and said they aren’t going to follow.

    “You are so incredibly brave” =

    Anglo-EU Translation Guide
    http://www.mopo.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/anglo-520×700.jpg


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    [...] One day to go before Australia wins Global Hair Shirt [...]


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    pat

    Zwick the Derivatives Man insults sceptics, but trying to make it a left/right argument is nonetheless a waste of time. if we could get over the partisan approach, we might have been able to defeat this insane plan to tax and trade carbon dioxide:

    4 Nov: Forbes: Steve Zwick: The Climate Debate is Over. Let’s Tap Markets to Save the Trees, the Planet, and Ourselves
    If you’re one of these self-proclaimed “skeptics” who still deny that man caused this mess and that man must fix it, then you’ve sacrificed your credibility as a sentient human being…
    To fix this problem, we must fundamentally change the way our economy prices goods and services so that the cost of environmental degradation is embedded in the cost of production. If we do that, everything else will follow. ***That’s the basic premise of carbon finance, and it’s a conservative idea – first proposed and then implemented by fiscal conservatives just a few short years before the whole movement went collectively insane…
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevezwick/2011/11/04/the-climate-debate-is-over-lets-tap-markets-to-save-the-trees-the-planet-and-ourselves/

    Steve Zwick
    Steve Zwick is a veteran derivatives industry journalist. A native of Chicago, Zwick divides his time between Germany and Chicago and is a contributing editor to Futures Magazine. He also writes for Time, Fortune, The Wall Street Journal, Ecosystem Marketplace and several other environmental publications…
    http://www.marketswiki.com/mwiki/Steve_Zwick

    have just finished reading “The Great European Rip-Off – How the Corrupt, Wasteful EU is Taking Control of Our Lives” by David Craig & Matthew Elliott (it’s available through the library up my way) and, whilst it was written not long before Climategate, they are vicious about the EU so-called “remedies” for pretending to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, without taking a stand on the science itself.

    what a power grab, yet our own partisanship has prevented a unified protest that might have put a stop to this insanity.


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    pat

    this has just gone up online:

    7 Nov: News Ltd: Government ends Australia Network tender over allegations of leaks
    THE federal government has terminated the Australia Network tender process over allegations that confidential information has been leaked.
    The Australian Federal Police has been called in to investigate…
    The ABC currently operates the Australia Network and Senator Conroy said its contract would be extended by six months until August 2012 while the government resolves the long-term contractual arrangements…
    http://www.news.com.au/national/govt-ends-australia-network-tender-over-allegations-of-leaks/story-e6frfkvr-1226188075780

    but whatever the following story/stories were, both appear to have been taken offline. if anyone has a copy of them or can open these links, please post:

    Australia Network best left in ABC hands
    ABC Online – ‎6 hours ago‎
    Australia provides an excellent information service and window on Australia through the ABC’s Radio Australia network. The content doesn’t always toe the Government’s line but that is part of its appeal. It provides a diversity of Australian views and …
    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3639552.html

    Australia Network best left in ABC hands – The Drum
    56 minutes ago – If the Government seriously considers the performance and integrity of Sky TV to be a match with Australia Network, then it may as well sell the …
    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3639552.html


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      Bruce of Newcastle

      Hah, the last is a snorter. Rudd then Conroy put it up for tender. First time the review committee got the wrong answer, recommending Sky. So Rudd found something wrong with this, sends them off to think again (happening also therefore to both telegraph to ABC that they have to do better and giving them more time to do so).

      So Committee reports again…recommending Sky bid. Again. Conroy not like this. No, Conoy doesn’t. So, finds leaks. Bad terrible leaks! Leaks that go beyond the pale. Leaks that mean the whole thing is a nonsense and must be done again. That type of leaks. Big hairy gorilla leaks! Or something. So must do over. So we make committee go away again and reexamine the resubmitted bids. But no leaks guys! (…unless Sky wins again, then leaks good).

      And ABC gets 6 months more to run Radio Australia while we wait. All happy! Frabjous joy!

      They must think we’re idiots.


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      They have no shame and they will only get away with this because the rest of the media (bar a few) will let them.

      The google cache appears to have a preview of the page. Can anyone open the cached copy?


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        Ladies and Gentlemen, google have tried to hide the cache, it must have been too handy for embarrassing friends of google.

        But I found it, the page that disappeared will turn up if you
        SEARCH google for cache:http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3639552.html.

        Yes, I’ll save a copy.

        Remember to add “cache:url” to your search tools (if you still use google). Best to try bing, or gigablast (it appears to be independent – who knows — but Ugh, is as Green as? “powered by the wind”!)

        UPDATE: Gigablast was awful. Yahoo was the best.
        Use yahoo http://search.yahoo.com/ (for world wide searches? I tried, it defaults to the au version below).
        http://au.search.yahoo.com/ (for Australian searches_)

        Send in your thoughts on search engines.


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          Bulldust

          There was an interesting period on Google after the term ClimateGate caught on. I watched in bemusement as the number of hits grew on Google (which had always been my default search engine) from hundreds to thoudsands then millions. Google would auto-suggest ClimateGate as the top option even if you only entered “Cli”.

          But then something happened.

          Google dropped ClimatGate off the autosuggest altogether and the number of hits dropped precipitously from 50 million plus to a tiny fraction thereof, and you had to enter the exact term for Google to search it. This was dubbed (by others) as GoogleGate. See the discussion at Google forums here (to their credit they allow the article to persist):

          http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Web%20Search/thread?tid=25112ee0c29cbd01&hl=en

          If memory serves this was around the time I discovered this site (I had been a regular at WUWT during CliamteGate). It was also the cause of my falling out with Jack the Insider over at The Australian. He refused to accept my account of the affair and said I didn’t know how search engines worked. Somewhat like a scientist, I did not know how the system worked, but I observed the number of hits several times a day and had a pretty good idea something odd was going on from observation … whether intentionally or accidently. But JtI abused me about it, calling me stupid and other things, which is why I pretty much refuse to blog with him anymore… shame really, because he generally has interesting views, but on climate science he is singularly obtuse. He even “enlisted” a CSIRO boffin to debate with me. I think the guy was a Masters in a soil lab in the organisation called “Marcus” … but I digress.

          Why did Google appear to have censored ClimateGate in autosuggest and hits for a while? One might suggest it was because their special adviser was none other than Al Gore, or one might suggest it was because both founders invest billions in green energy projects, but that would be overly cynical, no?

          I leave it to you to judge.


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      Andrew McRae

      Pat you missed quoting Bruce Haigh‘s money shot:

      Australia Network is a good service. It was well run and it is logical that it should run in harness with Radio Australia. It is a vehicle that conveys important information about Australia and the means by which the Government can get carefully crafted messages through to political, business and military leaders in the region. Australia’s public broadcaster can be and has been the conveyor of subtleties, not possible with SKY TV.
      ….
      At best the SKY TV news service is sloppy and often Murdoch-biased. It is not independent. It does not rate against ABC news services, programming and staff professionalism. Why project the national discourse through a second-rate provider?

      I guess for the ABC this was a “thanks, but no thanks!”

      h/t to Monckton… “How do you spell Pravda in Australian? A-B-C.”


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      • #
        Andrew McRae

        Can’t edit the above comment but just in the interest of balanced reporting:

        SKY TV has already shown its colours by signing a Memorandum of Understanding with the Government of China. No doubt the Chinese couldn’t believe their luck. This MOU represents a very silly act of self-censorship. It gives the Chinese the power of veto over content they do not agree with.

        That is the deal going. If you set the right relationship with the bureaucracy, you can do business in China. The Great Firewall of China supported by Google, Yahoo, Cisco, and other IT icons shows that Sky would not be the first communications company to kowtow to the totalitarians.

        The underlying (illogical) logic is that we need to censor Australia’s local news in order to fight the good fight in far flung places like China and the Chinese government would not apply their normal censorship rules to a service run by the ABC.

        The Utopia beckons!


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  • #
    pat

    so Abbott will be in Britain with the Tory CAGW Govt, which means don’t hope for any defectors to stop the passing of the Bills…

    8 Nov: News Ltd: Malcolm Farr: Carbon showdown, but Abbott takes great big new trip
    TONY Abbott will be out of the country tomorrow when the carbon pricing measures he dedicated himself to blocking become law.
    The Opposition Leader this evening revealed he will fly to Britain to attend the International Democratic Union meeting of conservative political leaders.
    He was scheduled to fly out tonight…
    Meanwhile, Prime Minister Gillard is flying back from Afghanistan and plans to be in Canberra in time or the historic vote.
    The Government will hold some “muted” celebrations of the legislative victory. “There won’t be any champagne, ” said one source.
    http://www.news.com.au/national/carbon-showdown-but-abbott-takes-great-big-new-trip/story-e6frfkvr-1226188045485

    Abbott could easily have delayed the trip for 24 hours. one must also wonder if the govt knew Abbott would be away when they chose tomorrow for this day of treachery against the public.


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  • #
    Dave

    The CO2 question today is a worry?

    1. Burning coal uses one O2 + one Carbon to produce one CO2!
    2. Burning Methane uses four O2 + one CH4 to produce one CO2 plus two H2O

    What do humans need O2, yet why aren’t we burning more coal to reduce the use of O2 in the atmosphere? What are the measurements of O2 today compared to 1950, 1900 & 100 BC etc.

    Methane burning is worse than coal and less efficient – yet our Climate Change Gurus seems to think otherwise?

    Unfortunately the GHG index also will Tax more for CH4 – but in realty it produces the same ammount of CO2 yet uses more O2 – so is this a tax on oxygen?

    I am getting lost on this whole thing? So keeping methane in the ground maybe more beneficial to keeping higher oxygen levels in the world today! Plus the extra CO2 produced from coal will aid plant growth and animal survival! (Minus Asteroid Impact of course)


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    • #

      This is a totally new interesting subject. But I suspect the answer lies in the very large
      O2/CO2 ratio.There was a time (eon?) when the atmos had no O2 at all. It had a very
      different species of life forms. When O2 appeared, they all died.


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  • #
    Joe Lalonde

    Jo,

    What do we know is the trigger to an Ice Age?
    Suns activity change?
    The flipping of the magnetic poles?

    No. They do not explain how vast amounts of precipitation can be deposited or a change in the evaporation/precipitation cycle.
    Changing of the oceans salt can.
    Denser at the equator and fresher at the northern latitudes opens the evaporation cycle. The equatorial region would be warmer with less precipitation to cool the land due to the salt on the surface.
    http://www-pord.ucsd.edu/~ltalley/sio219/curryetal_nature2003.pdf

    How can this be possible?
    What is the cause?
    Pressure changes to the atmospheric density.
    We have new growth up mountainsides which shows pressure exerting outward.
    The strongest centrifugal force on this planet is at the equator.
    Salt is an interesting element.

    Interesting driver to map the velocity of the planet or a fools errand?


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  • #
    Fred Allen

    In The Autralian article linked, “as members retreat due to changing priorities and economic pressure.”

    I would have thought the decisions were mostly political. Politicians across many of the democratic countries realize that backing an ETS is the equivalent to committing political suicide. Gillard knows that now, but I’m sure she didn’t go into this without a lucrative personal exit strategy in her pocket.


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  • #
    catamon

    Damnation. This Carbon Price is sooooo unpopular. Wonder why the polls are trending back to the ALP and Gillard over the last two months??


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    • #
      Andrew McRae

      Opposition and Senator Xenophon amendment – sheet 7168 :

      Clean Energy Bill 2011
      (1)
      Clause 2, page 1 (line 16) to page 5 (line 3), omit the clause, substitute:

      2 Commencement
      (1) The provisions of this Act commence on a date to be fixed by Proclamation.
      (2) A Proclamation for the purposes of subsection (1) must not be made until after elections have been held for the 44th Parliament and the Parliament has met.

      Senate voting result (will move from dynamic to permalink today):

      Negatived: No. 1 (Committee divided: Ayes 32; Noes 36)

      Actually, the carbon price is so unpopular its progenitors dare not test its popularity at an election.

      If you just assume the carbon price is popular then you don’t need to check do you?
      Problem is, when you assume, you make a cash cow out the ass of u and me.

      As for party poll support, if an election was called today the ALP would lose government by a greater margin than it last “won”.

      You’ve been busted before on democratic deceptions and now you’ve been busted again.


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        catamon

        [You’ve been busted before on democratic deceptions and now you’ve been busted again.]

        Gods but youre silly.

        What deceptions have you “Busted” me for?? Put up or shut it with the personal attacks. Or are they allowed here now??

        The polls are an indicator of whats likely at a particular moment in time, a snapshot. We are 2 years out from an election and i have no doubt that the result will be different from todays polls. More likey in the 52/48 range where they usually sit.

        Just because your lot LOST the last election and there has been sufficient support mustered in parliament, legitimately, at law to pass the Carbon Price Bills ( i hope!!) its no need to get sniffy and keep on with the idiot zombie calls for an election now.

        Get over it, moving forward you know. By end 2012 you will be wondering what the fuss was about. Or maybe not if your one of the single issue voters out there who tends to become irrelevant pretty quickly??


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          Crakar24

          Get over it, moving forward you know. By end 2012 you will be wondering what the fuss was about.

          You referencing the Mayan countdown clock now?

          I suggest you take a deep breath of 0.04% CO2 and breath out 4% CO2 in long slow breathes until you stop feeling fuzzy and light headed.


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            catamon

            You referencing the Mayan countdown clock now?

            LOL! Nah mate. Just happy today that our democracy is working as it should regardless. I could go on, but that would probably be construed as gloating which would not be fair to some here who may be a tad down today.


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            Crakar24

            Democracy?……………………………ah yes now i remember, democracy is that quaint little desire where a group of people wish to have a say in who leads them as opposed to a dictatorship. The people also want to here the potential leader speak about how they intend to lead and based on this they vote. The potential leader with the most votes gets to be the leader for a period of time.

            Obviously the leader must adhere to the claims they made prior to being voted in otherwise it would be just another dictatorship.

            Yes i remember democracy.


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    Fred Allen

    Dave @46, I’m no chemistry guru, but I think you need to recheck your math and/or chemistry.


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    Mervyn Sullivan

    For those who are upset about the carbon tax, because it has nothing to do with climate change and it isn’t going to have any impact on climate, they should look at it all in a different way.

    Labor governments love new taxes. The Hawke/Keating years gave Australia the capital gains tax, prescribed payments tax, fringe benefits tax, increased wholesale sales tax, tax on superannuation funds… and let’s not forget HECS for students.

    In contrast, John Howard gave us gst, but simultaneously abolished the wholesale sales tax and a number of other piddly taxes.

    Then the Rudd government comes along… wham bang… we get an alcopop tax. Then the threat of a mining super profits tax comes along… think about it – ideal to help Labor have a chance of producing a budget surplus. But it backfires.

    In comes the Gillard government. “There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead” becomes “There will be a carbon tax” … and a great opportunity to get money to balance the budget. It’s not about the climate. How can it be? Nobody agrees it will have any effect on anything except our wallets. So we will have this carbon “wealth redistribution” tax. Whooopiee! Of course, as with the Hawke/Keating era, despite more taxes and never being able to produce a budget surplus, that’s also going to happen with Gillard. Remeber, its a Labor government. Labor does not know the meaning of budget surplus.

    But Gillard thinks she’s smarter than Rudd… and plans to also milk it with the mining super profits tax. Get the picture yet? It’s all about increasing the tax revenue stream to the government. Nothing about Co2… nothing about global warming (heck there hasn’t been any for a decade and they know it) nothing to make miners competitive. It’s just a great big tax grab!

    So for all of you people who are upset, just don’t think of it as a carbon tax… think of it as just a simple money grab by the Gillard government.

    The saddest thing about these new big fat taxes?

    When the Coalition wins government, none of these taxes will ever get repealed. Just look at the history of taxation in Australia… you’ll know I’m right.


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  • #
    Beth Cooper

    Only thing I can smile at on Black Armband Day as we gallop towards carbon encumbrance is the surprise of reading my comment at WUWT on Nov 5th, posted here at #12 by Another Ian. :-)


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  • #
    Beth Cooper

    And here’s another rhyme I posted at WUWT about climate science:
    “We’re clever specializers
    In the art of climatology,
    We’re very highly specialized
    In modelling futurology,
    We’re really rather good at,
    Yes we’re good at hindcastology,
    And upside down ‘Tiljender,’
    Such a tricky methodology.
    Now you skeptics think our measurements
    Perverse and upside-downery,
    And some among you skeptics say
    We’re clueless and we’re clownery,
    But we’re very, very good at,
    Yes, we’re very,very good at,
    Oh we’re really very good at
    Getting money from the guvernment!


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    Crakar24

    Dont know if this has been mentioned yet but for anyone from overseas wants to know the state of politics here in Australia the current disapproval rating of both Gillard and Abbott is 60 & 57% respectively. I think they are the only stats you need.


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  • #

    G’day Skeptic nerds. Today Julia is passing in the senate the ‘’flat rate carbon rip-off’’ all thanks to you – congratulation. No, not because of the Warmist evidences – they cannot have any legitimate proof; because is no such a thing as GLOBAL warming. But thanks to you ‘’the backdoor experts’’

    When 1990 was approaching – the countdown for ‘’year 2000 Nuclear Winter’’ had to start. Instead of panicking; for getting exposed for what the climatologist profession is; somebody used the Freudian trick: for a person to forget a small fear – impose bigger fear = they turned 180degrees, from nuclear winter into GLOBAL warming. If they had any honesty – they would have admitted guilt –all over.

    Because the decision was made: people to forget about the Nuclear Winter for year 2000 they promised; with bigger noise they have gone into GLOBAL warming. Nuclear Winter and GLOBAL warming have being harvested from thin air – they are same lies. But because of turning 180degrees, thousands of people were into preparing those misleading temperature charts – millions of man-hours wasted, billions of tax $$$ – just for two little white lies. Warmist had fanatic support from the ‘’pretend Skeptics’’… Warmist state that one year is warmer than another – it’s like throwing some corn to their galahs – instant increase in noise: algorithm, albedo, wavelengths, anthropogenic, crapogenic, equilibrium!!! If that leading Warmist had a bit of honesty – admitted that is all lies – the nerds wouldn’t be doing so much destructions to the truth.

    In the 70’s wasn’t colder, 98 wasn’t warmer than any other year, sunspots / sun-flares are not increasing / decreasing the temperature in the atmosphere; but their galahs were busy as flies on the Warmist do-do, legitimizing Warmist lies = Warmist were creating more Bulshit, as fodder for the ‘’pretend Skeptics’’… Thanks to them, Julia is today legalizing extortion. If you don’t pay carbon tax – they will cut off the electricity – workers cannot work in the factory with no electricity – factory goes out; where they pay less than 10% for electricity per kilowatt, than in Australia (electricity produced by Australian coal) You don’t pay carbon tax, the fridge goes off… subtropical / tropical Australia becomes salmonella / typhoid capital of the world. Algorithm, albedo, wavelengths, anthropogenic, crapogenic, equilibrium, will not be fashionable anymore; those misleading phony GLOBAL temperature variation charts -will be up the [snip] them… by the millions of victims… Skeptic galahs, I hope you will be enjoying it. Keep singing the Warmist lyrics as foreplay: algorithm, albedo, wavelengths, anthropogenic, crapogenic, equilibrium!!! Treason used to be a crime; should be introduced again, retrospective, if posible.

    [look Stefan, I'm happy for you to use this forum to promote your ideas, beliefs, science and research, but you need to tone down the insults. Remember that you are a guest here at Jo Novas blog. Insulting those whom you are trying to reach out to isn't the way to go. Cavemen didn't do science so stop behaving like one. Mod oggi]


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      Gee Aye

      One part of me wants to say, “the mod’s comments would be justified if we could understand what was being said”.

      The other side of me says that I think that Stefan holds views that more overlap with mine than don’t. Therefore I am in complete agreement with oggi that posts like Stafan’s reduce the possibly of sensible debate because anyone questioning the orthodoxy is viewed as someone with the credibility of Stefan.


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    David

    Adam Gallon at #2 – thank you so much for the link to Jo Abess’s site and hilarious e-mail..!
    You’ve made my day…


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    Gee Aye # 56.1 Most of people do understand what I say, your problem is not ”understanding” but you cannot discredit any of my proofs – so as a topical ”BIGOT” stuck constantly into my English. Thanks lord, are not many of them like you and the ”phony truthseeker”.

    Because others can understand – my tiers will not help much your inferior mind, you need a shrink – maybe a shrink can cure your bigotry… maybe.


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