JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Last ditch Goreathon: Scare, smear and slur

No one from the big scare campaign is even pretending that this is about the science anymore. It’s just tribal name-calling, voo-doo dolls and poo jokes from preschool.

Al Gore  hopes he has reality on his side. But the reality is the relentless slide of the polls. It’s the crashed Chicago Climate Exchange, the kaput green jobs. It’s the long list of countries who are are shaking themselves free of the eco-shackles. The apostles of a bygone cult are reduced to saying that warming causes cooling, death, disease and even prostitution in Ghana. The babbling last players standing are talking about saving the world from aliens. Sadly, those are not the nutters, no, they’re the ones from NASA.

The NASA crew worry that the aliens who have been blind to the last 60 years of  I love Lucy beamed out to space, have instead been transfixed by a trace gas composition change from 0.028% to 0.039% on the third rock from the sun in a distant galaxy. I’m scared now, not of the aliens, but of our collapsing collective IQ. This is modern public debate (and from the team that got the man on the moon.)

Gore’s seedy scare will be viewed in history books as we marvel at Fowlers Arsenic Cure now.

Gore is the modern witchdoctor incarnate, armed with special effects, no scruples and buckets of money. He knows he’s losing the war with the thinkers, he’s given up even trying to win the educated. Now it’s straight from the Saul Alinsky playbook of personal smear.

Fossil Fuel interests have money, influence, control…

“Deniers will be revealed”

So lets send it back to him ten-fold and more. Reality!

Tell him fossil fuel interests only dream of the kind of power that the real vested interests in this policy have.

Major financial houses have more money, more influence and more control. When the GFC hit the fan, who got bailed out? Who got the blank cheques for trillions with a T?

It wasn’t BP.

Last year $144 billion turned over in carbon markets worldwide, and $243 billion was invested in renewable energy. And the market doesn’t include mandatory action in … most of the world. The dollar signs are a calling, but it’s not from coal or oil –  they know they’re in no danger of being replaced by whale-killing windmills, and symbolic solar panels. The bald truth is that nuclear could be a threat, but no one’s rushing to replace the Prius with hybrid fission hatchback. (For renewables though, the carbon scare is life and death for an industry that can’t come close to competing without bubbly subsidies.What renewables lack in financial clout, they make up for in motivation.)

But at the end of the day, the bankers* win, rain, hail or shine, no matter who buys, who sells or what the price is, as long as there is a carbon-credit fiat currency, they stand to make a fortune, and you can hardly blame them for holding their hands out and saying Yes Please.

Deniers will be revealed! We can’t wait!

The deniers are the ones who ignore millions of weather-balloons and thousands of ARGO buoys; who insist that yellow is really red; who tell us there will be endless droughts, then when people drown in floods, they say “we told you it would rain”. Spot the denier indeed.

The most hilarious video of the Gore-rama event is the “Making Of” compilation (if you can bear to watch it). It’s positively oozing self-anointed importance: They think their ten seconds of toilet-humour and baseless smear was worthy of being analyzed or recorded for posterity?

*No I don’t hold anything against the hundreds of thousands of honest bank workers, shareholders, and decent managers.

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104 comments to Last ditch Goreathon: Scare, smear and slur

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    Reed Coray

    Jo, you mention NASA’s fear of aliens destroying the Earth because the level of the trace gas CO2 has increased in the last 60 years. On 29 August 2011, Anthony Watts graciously allowed me guest post priviliges on his blog WattsUpWithThat. Below is a copy of that guest post. I know many of your readers also read Anthony’s blog; but for those who don’t, I thought they might be interested.

    Two members of the Penn State University faculty (Seth D. Baum and Jacob D. Haqq-Misra) and one employee of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (Shawn D. Domagal-Goldman) have taken valuable time to address the issue of how mankind might deal with beneficent, neutral and hostile Extraterrestrial Intelligence (ETI). The aforementioned concerned citizens authored an article appearing in the Journal Acta Astronautica (volume 68, 2011, pages 2114-2129). The title of that article was: “Would contact with extraterrestrials benefit or harm humanity? A scenario analysis.” I would like to provide assistance to those gentlemen so that they may continue their important work with minimal interruption. To that end, I have written two messages that will (a) help ensure ETIs do not disrupt their important work, and (b) remove the need for those gentlemen to devote their valuable time to the generation of comparable messages. Subject to the approval of Penn State University, NASA, and the authors of the referenced Acta Astronautica article, I recommend these messages be broadcast to space in all human languages.
    Reed Coray

    PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE MESSAGE OF THE FIRST KIND

    To: Ecosystem-Valuing Universalist Extraterrestrial Intelligence Possessing The Capacity To Harm Or Destroy The Earth Or Any Portion Thereof (EVUETIPTCTHODTEOAPT)

    From: The faculty/staff of Penn State University and the employees of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)

    Date: Gregorian: 2011-08-28; Julian: 2455801.5; Modified Julian: 55801; Hebrew: 5771-Av 28; Chinese: 2011-07-29; Islamic: 1432-Ramadan-28; ISO-8601: 2011-34-7;
    Persian: 1390-Shahrivar-6; Mayan Long Count: 12.19.18.11.19; Indian Civil: 1933-Bhadra-6; Unix: 1314489600; Excel Serial Day Number, 1900 Date System
    (PC): 40783;Excel Serial Day Number, 1904 Date System (Macintosh): 39321

    Subject: Precautionary Principle Plea of the First Kind

    Whereas:
    (1) EVUETIPTCTHODTEOAPTs might exist,

    (2) EVUETIPTCTHODTEOAPTs might be observing/monitoring (a) the composition of Earth’s atmosphere and (b) electromagnetic radiation emanating from the Earth,

    (3) Observations might be limited to the last 100 orbits of the Earth about its star (Sun)– Note: We call one orbit of the Earth about the Sun a “year”,

    (4) Observations over the last 100 years show a small increase in the level of the atmospheric trace gas carbon dioxide (CO2),

    (5) EVUETIPTCTHODTEOAPTs might conclude that the small increase in the level of the atmospheric trace gas CO2 is due to wicked practices of the dominant Earth species (mankind),

    (6) EVUETIPTCTHODTEOAPTs might conclude that the small increase in the level of the atmospheric trace gas CO2 is known by mankind to be harmful to the Earth’s environment,

    (7) EVUETIPTCTHODTEOAPTs might conclude that based on the harmful effect of the small increase in the level of the atmospheric trace gas CO2 that mankind is consciously and willfully destroying the Earth’s environment,

    (8) Although over the last 30 years most of mankind’s “message-related” electromagnetic radiation (and especially electromagnetic messages emanating from Penn State University and NASA) that discusses:
    (a) the small increase in the amount of the atmospheric trace gas CO2, and
    (b) its harmful effects on the Earth’s
    has been
    (i) to deplore mankind’s contribution to the small increase in the level of the atmospheric trace gas CO2,
    (ii) to warn against such future behavior, and
    (iii) to try to limit/prevent future increases in the level of the atmospheric trace gas CO2,
    a small segment of mankind (called deniers) disagrees with and even lies about the net adverse effect on the Earth’s environment of mankind’s small increase in the amount of the atmospheric trace gas CO2, and some of those lies have been transmitted to space in the form of electromagnetic radiation,

    (9) Members of the Penn State University faculty and of NASA have written an article [Acta Astronautica, 68 (2011) 2114-2129] demonstrating that at least some of mankind is aware of the possible harm EVUETIPTCTHODTEOAPTs might inflict on the Earth,

    We the faculty/staff of Penn State University and the employees of NASA do hereby plead to all EVUETIPTCTHODTEOAPTs: Do not destroy the Earth or mankind; but if you insist on destroying a portion of the Earth, please exempt from that destruction: (a) the faculty/staff of Penn State University, (b) the employees of NASA, and (c) like-minded humans wherever they may reside–collectively known as the “good guys”. If a condition that you not destroy us (the good guys) is that you require we (the good guys) submit a list of the wicked (the bad guys), we (the good guys) will gleefully supply that list–in fact, we (the good guys) have a few names already in mind.

    Go with GAIA.

    PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE MESSAGE OF THE SECOND KIND
    To: Extraterrestrial Intelligence Looking To Destroy Stupidity/Arrogance/Wasteful-Activities Wherever They Might Exist In The Universe (ETILTDSAWAWTMEITU)

    From: The faculty/staff of Penn State University and the employees of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)

    Date: Gregorian: 2011-08-28; Julian: 2455801.5; Modified Julian: 55801; Hebrew: 5771-Av 28; Chinese: 2011-07-29; Islamic: 1432-Ramadan-28; ISO-8601: 2011-34-7;
    Persian: 1390-Shahrivar-6; Mayan Long Count: 12.19.18.11.19; Indian Civil: 1933-Bhadra-6; Unix: 1314489600; Excel Serial Day Number, 1900 Date System (PC): 40783;
    Excel Serial Day Number, 1904 Date System (Macintosh): 39321

    Subject: Precautionary Principle Plea of the Second Kind

    Whereas ETILTDSAWAWTMEITUs may exist and receive the electromagnetic broadcast of our PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE MESSAGE OF THE FIRST KIND,
    We state that the content of our PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE MESSAGE OF THE FIRST KIND was made in jest–ha ha; and we plead that ETILTDSAWAWTMEITUs not destroy the faculty/staff of Penn State University and/or employees of NASA and/or like-minded humans.

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    amcoz

    The vid totally lost me, I must be getting old. My climate reality tells me that it has been quite cold of recent times.

    As for CO2, it is not a pollutant. Cheap energy ought to be means for creating wealth and taxing something CO2 that is so fundamental to all lifeforms is nonsense. Spreading the tax around so that only the ig-no-rants would not know that it’s their money that is being spread around is just plain dumb and as for paying some else for a piece of paper to allow so-called ‘carbon pollution’ to continue, which has the perverse effect of reducing the country’s inherent wealth, is economic vandalism.

    It is absolute madness and causes my psyche to become so disturbed at times that I sometimes ask myself when the next inter-gallatic ferry will stop by and take me to a saner place. It is just economic madness n the extreme for what those friggin morons in can’tbra have set about doing; it just doesn’t make sense.

    There has to be end to all this soon, common sense has to prevail before we all become impoverished by the stupidity of All that Gory crap that our dear PM stridently rejects.

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    Lionell Griffith

    Principle: When you see something that is absurd, don’t question the absurdity. Look at what the absurdity accomplishes. THAT will be its purpose. The words used to justify the absurdity have no connection to reality nor the real purpose for the implementation of the absurdity and can be safely ignored.

    The absurdity: a trace addition by man to a trace gas in the atmosphere is associated, by assertion, with a computed residual (from highly processed aka cooked data) increase in something called global temperature anomaly which has no physical meaning. The result of this small increase is asserted to be a runaway global warming effect that will wipe out life as we know it. Therefore, we must institute a totalitarian global governance who’s purpose is to control (aka restrict to the point of eliminating) the use of energy from any real process by every person on the earth. The people of the earth are to have no choice in the matter. The debate is said to be over. The issue is said to be settled.

    The absurdity accomplishes: the termination of technological civilization and all who are contributing to its continuation. Soon to be followed by the termination of the rest of mankind including those who advocate the absurdity.

    In summary: those who advocate the absurdity do not want to live and they do not want anyone else to live either. If you want to live, you will fight them to the end with everything you have. After all, if you don’t fight, you will lose everything anyway.

    Final principle: beware of a free man who wants to remain free and who has nothing to lose by fighting for his freedom. He may fail in his battle but it will have been the most selfish act of his life!

    He who is free never submits. He who submits was never free.

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    Thank you, thank you, thank you, Jo Nova, for this story on the “Last ditch Goreathon”

    May it be the last!

    The 2011 “Goreathon” is the illegitimate offspring from the forty (40) year gestation period of a Chinese Dragon, fertilized in Peking on 9-11 July 1971:

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB66/ch-40.pdf

    The pregnancy was hidden from the public for more than thirty (>30) years before being cited as footnote #4 to government declassified documents about President Nixon’s trip to China on 21-28 Feb 1972:

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB106/index.htm

    President Nixon gave the first public hint in his announcement on 5 Jan 1972 that the Apollo space program would be dismantled:

    http://claudelafleur.qc.ca/Nomoredreams.html

    There was gossip at the Lunar Science Conference on 10-13 Jan 1972 that US President Nixon and other world leaders would sign a world peace treaty while orbiting Earth instead of pursing the space race.

    Nixon met USSR leaders in Moscow on 22-29 May 1972. The idea of leaders signing a peace treaty while orbiting the world never materialized.

    And this illegitimate offspring is hopefully gasping its last breath.

    With kind regards,
    Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo
    http://myprofile.cos.com/manuelo09

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    EnviroRealist

    the utter desperation of a failed man, a failed career and a failed human being.

    Kinda sad he has sunk so low. History will not be kind to such a loser who inflicted so much useless economic suffering and misery and so much of humanity while he scored millions of dollars off the scam.

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    [...] JoNova – Last ditch Goreathon: Scare, smear and slur [...]

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    janama

    You are right Jo – I couldn’t watch it.

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    Al $$$$$ Gore will go down in history as a lying,hypocritical,conflict of interest,massive carbon footprint,jackass.

    A man who has for years avoided Debate offers from skeptics.Debate Me, Al Gore!

    Why Won’t Al Gore Debate?

    Who produced dishonest misleading and plain lying Inconvenient Truth presentation.That was shown to be error filled propaganda in a court of law.Court Identifies Eleven Inaccuracies in Al Gore’s ‘An Inconvenient Truth’

    The same man who shows a profound inability to produce rational statements.Such as the MILLION degree temperature in the earths core.Gore has no clue – a few million degrees here and there and pretty soon we’re talking about real temperature

    His latest 24 hour absurdity will only show what a dirtbag he really is.Grasping for $$$ and unwilling to debate anyone on it.The world will have to wonder where all that money is coming from to produce this hysterical propaganda.

    Hey Al $$$,where is my “big oil” money for running one of the largest skeptical forums on the net,I own?

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    TinyCO2

    What’s the betting that the paid deniers Al Gore intends to out are mostly people we’ve never heard of, from right wing think tanks we’ve never heard of, who have probably only written an article or two on global warming that nobody ever read?

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    Madjak

    I’m sorry, did someone mention that someone still listens to manbearpig?

    Look, Al Gore was the only person who could make george w bush look good. He lost an election to a candidate who couldn’t even name the british prime minister!

    I couldn’t understand why the american people elected bush, but after digging just a little bit into investigating gore, I can understand why. The american people had an impossible decision in 2001.

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    Madjak

    Tinyco2,

    He’ll probably out some poor fellow who worked at a gas station as a student pumping gas.

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    TinyCO2

    Madjak of course, I forgot about him LOL.

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    Bulldust

    And yet Australian voters swallow the garbage the Rainbow Coalition reguritates without even flinching. What is wrong with ordinary Australians? What is it going to talke to wake Australians out of their stupor?

    Clean energy future, carbon pollution, dirty coal… as what point do we stop accepting ansurdly illogical statements? We are on the brink of accepting this legislation that was never mandated at the last election, and for what? Zero measurable impact on global climate.

    What makes me sad is not the politicians who are acting as politicians do, i.e. amassing money and power for themselves to abuse (Hello Mt Thompson) but that the Australian voters simply bend over, drop the daks and ask for more. Sorry, but it is that pathetic.

    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good (wo)men to do nothing.

    I am not a political activist by nature… I find it distasteful, because I fully recognise one camp is as untrustworthy as the next. But when one Party piles heaps and heaps … and heaps of bad policy one atop the other, something needs to give, before our economy does.

    Wake up Australia!

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    JMD

    Major financial houses have more money

    Well sure but why? Is it because governments abet major financial houses to monetise government debt?

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    Dave N

    Sadly, on the financial front Gore has been a resounding success. Most sincere people fighting for causes they believe in firstly expect no income from it; a minority will expect some compensation for their time and so that they are able to live, and usually only if they have no other income.

    Gore’s spectacular failure is at the other end of the scale; he is completely ignorant, and is using the people of Earth to profit from his propaganda. Given the above, there cannot be one ounce of sincerity in his bones. I expect even some alarmists are embarrassed of his profiteering of a cause that they believe in.

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    Kevin Moore

    Solar flares in deep space can give a dose of hundreds to thousands of rem over a few hours.

    Such doses are fatal and millions of times greater than the permitted dose.

    Death is likely after 500 rem in any short time.

    It only requires a dose of 35 rem to induce vomiting, nausea and diarrhoea,and 75 rem to result in 10% fatalities.

    NASA’s own staff have recorded that they had no way of “predicting individual solar influence rates and of anticipating which flare will produce energetic protons escaping the vicinity of the Sun and reaching the orbit of the Earth…”

    During nine alleged trips to the Moon 1,506 solar flares were recorded.

    So when man went to the Moon,the least they would have suffered is nausea,vomiting and diarrhoea. I haven’t seen or heard of any recording of an astronaut vomiting or otherwise indisposed in his/her spacesuit.How come?

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    Bulldust

    Dave N:

    I would suspect his enormous ego would overcome any ounce of sincerity Gore might possess. I find it amusing that he will not take questions nor debate anyone about his pet faith. I honestly think he does not realise how irrelevant he has become. I imagine he surrounds himself with faithful sycophants to avoid that inconvenient truth.

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    Ross

    Is it any coincidence that Jackie Kennedy tapes / interviews are going to be televised in the USA tonight ? Poor old Al Gore will certainly be trumpted for space on the front page and heading the TV/radio news.

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    Barry

    Perhaps it’s time to do an IQ test on the likes of AL Gore, Julia Gillard, Greg Combet… etc etc … or perhaps find out who pulls the strings on these puppets!!!!

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    Bernal

    Best case scenario is, in the U.S. anyway, social upheaval that is a counter reformation to the one that occurred in the sixties. I am a baby boomer, the most teats on a bull generation that ever graced this or any known continent and I hope, for the sake of our children, about to get pwnd.

    Jane Fonda, an icon of my generation although technically not one of us, spoke to our high level of uselessness when she said that her great regret in life was never sleeping with Che Guevara, a middling mass murderer at best. I think the main reason he got traction was his uncanny resemblance to the Zig-Zag rolling papers guy. And that is what she wants…down there? I mean what about Pol Pot? That is a lover who could really take your breath away. But there you have it, devotion to mindless romantic/revolutionary mythology. When you know that doesn’t “green” make sense. Not sense as rational but sense as,Ohhhh, now I get it. That is reason for these fools.

    But social justice does not extend to our own children who will be working to pay our retirements. And, if people like Manbearpig have their way they will be doing it in the dark and the cold to save us from Carbon. Except for the cold part, sounds just like Pol Pot.

    Now it could be that the ‘yutes’ of today will just lay down and take it. Their Anthropology degrees (with an Environmental Studies minor) may leave them ill suited for the struggle for survival. But at some point their parents will kick them out of the basement and I am guessing they may be pissed. Boomers will grow weak, the wheel will turn.

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    Ian Hill

    Another splattergate. Yuk!

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    Twodogs

    Kevin Moore @ 15,, perhaps you missed the news recently showing the footprints on the moon? Okay, maybe they were aliens, but wouldn’t they be exposed to radiation too? Al has a carbon tax to sell you!

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    MaryFJohnston

    I nearly threw up last night watching the “Good News” on TV.

    Juuliah was being congratulated by fresh faced mums carrying babies and thanking her for saving the planet for their children by introducing the Karbon Tax Bill with the GetUp guy hovering benignly in the background.

    Even the devil can look non threatening during a mutual love in and with his manicured hair style he had a striking resemblance to AlGore.

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    I completely agree, Bulldust. Well said, and thanks Jo for all your efforts to stop this madness.
    My own take on this laugh-a-thon…http://pindanpost.com/2011/09/13/last-refuge-of-a-scoundrel-24-hour-laughfest/

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    Darn it, one day I will link properly

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    But probably not today…bugger

    [Tom, the problem with your first link is simply the lack of a space before http. you have ....http and it needs to be .... http. Also, use the preview button and you can test your links before you submit.] ED

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    MaryFJohnston

    Hi Bulldust

    Can relate to your “”I am not a political activist by nature… I find it distasteful, because I fully recognise one camp is as untrustworthy as the next.”"

    I prefer the liberals over labor for the simple reason they let you see the knife coming and don’t take quite so much of your money so at least there’s enough left for a funeral.

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    val majkus

    an e mail just received from an enlightened correspondent
    http://www.henrythornton.com/article.asp?article_id=6307

    A ‘Must read’ article by economist Henry Thornton.

    Snippets. ( However, read the gaps in between. Most enlightening)
    As noted in the speech by Tony Abbott at the Economic and Social Outlook Conference in Melbourne on 1 July, other countries are rapidly increasing emissions and moving away from putting in place economy-wide Emission Trading Schemes (ETSs), rather than towards doing so. For example, the US has abandoned all moves towards a national cap-and-trade scheme; and at the same time as our 5% emissions reduction target would see us cut annual CO2 emissions by around 50 million tonnes p.a. (Mtpa) by 2020 relative to current levels, China is projected (on the Government’s own figures from Professor Ross Garnaut) to increase its emissions by over 100 times as much (i.e. over 5000 Mtpa), on top of an increase 50 times as large that has already happened over the 5 years to 2009. The silence of most economists at the conference in response to Tony Abbott’s speech was noticeable and, in my view, deeply disturbing.

    The third use of the additional tax is a fund to support research into alternative energy generation mechanisms. This government gave us the pink batts debacle, the ‘education revolution’ spending (in reality highly inefficient handouts to construction companies) and has made a massive bet on current ‘best in class’ broadband technology. Can the voters of Australia have any real confidence that the Gillard government will pick winners from a bunch of technologies all of which are currently far less efficient than coal or gas-fired electricity generating plants? Even if sensible choices of new technologies are made, it is extremely unlikely that the relatively small investments Australia can afford will create the necessary breakthroughs. This policy is a remnant of Kevin Rudd’s misplaced aspiration to lead the world in solving what he called the greatest moral challenge of our times. Australians became suspicious when he was left alone and friendless in Copenhagen and his closest cabinet colleagues told him to abandon his ETS plan. The same colleagues then called time on his Prime ministership.

    This is not the work of Adam Smith’s famous invisible hand. Instead it is quite obviously the work of politicians and bureaucrats who desire to strut the world stage, be seen to be doing something and resort to the very visible hand of a new tax and a new money churn whenever confronted with what they perceive to be a problem.
    Australia cannot afford the frolic of a carbon tax. We should be improving productivity, not weakening the competitive position of Australian firms. The world is too competitive for us to burden our industry with a tax no other country has embraced. The government’s carbon tax will strengthen both the terrible twins of inflation and productivity. The Reserve Bank will be forced to respond by raising interest rates higher than with no carbon tax, causing great and unnecessary pain to Australian businesses and households.

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    Sean

    To Dave N and Bulldust,
    I think between the two of you you’ve got Al Gore nailed. Its the combo and ignorance and arrogance that makes Al such a sincere charmer. Given his track record on moving public opinion I think it’s fair to count the $300 million (US) as part of the deep denialist conspiracy’s resources used against the catastrophic global warming theory. (Money well spent by the opponents of consensus climate science I might add.)

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    Roy Hogue

    Anyone who believes aliens from another star/galaxy/anywhere have/are/or will ever visit the Earth should change what they’re smoking. Its doing them more harm than good.

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    Manfred

    ‘Carbon Dioxide Tax – the UN Pole Tax (head tax, capitation tax) is breathtaking – literally – with a monetary value placed on carbon dioxide, a constituent of the very breath you exhale. How long will it be before UN carbon dioxide output evaluation takes into account national population? After all, an individual produces about 1kg CO2 daily’ – http://www.osteopath.co.nz.

    Al Gore may be suffering a gargantuan cred haemorrhage and the ‘science’ may be shot through with holes, but JoNova and many others outstanding web sites exist for a reason: the carbon tax has been installed, an irrational green mantra has been incalcated into the media, the younger generations and it appears, most politicians. The malaise goes much deeper that mass duping. I think that it is a quasi-religious desire to attach meaning to an often meaningless existence punctuated by the TV program schedules. ‘Saving the world’ from the latest version of beezelzebub – carbon dioxide – will likely keep non-believers busy, conservatively for the next half millennium. After all, it took about 1500 years or so to reach the Renaissance. As Bill Maher’s ‘Religulous’ so adroitly demonstrated: human kind needs to grow-up and get over it (belief that suspends the exercise of rationality) before it’s too late!

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    RoyFOMR

    An excellent video full of young, bright and imaginative people full of ideas.
    What a pity that the message that they’re so enthusiastically partnering with is wrong!
    I wouldn’t like to be in Al’s boots when they realise that they’ve been duped and made to seem stupid.
    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

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    David Cooke

    In South Australia, we’re soon going be enduring a visit from one of Gore’s men, Roy Neel.

    Neel is speaking at the WOMAD Earth Station festival in late October. He’s described without a blush as Gore’s chief of staff, who oversees Big Al’s clean energy business interests and AGW advocacy programs, assisted with An Inconvenient Truth, and helped found The Climate Project. Not to mention advising the ACF in its campaign for a carbon price.

    Also speaking are the usual suspects including Robyn Williams, Cate Blanchett, Ian Lowe, Mike Young, Matthew Wright, Bernie Hobbs and even Giselle Weybrecht from the UK.

    The sad thing is that there are some fine musicians on the WOMAD program – eg. the Kronos Quartet, Wu Man, Zakir Hussain, and the Shanghai Orchestra. But if I go to see them, my presence would imply acceptance of the heavy-handed propaganda that WOMAD is now presenting. Nor is a music festival the right place to carry dissenting placards or make a political point.

    Come to think of it, isn’t there something spooky about WOMAD (a long-established SA music festival) suddenly joining the AGW bandwagon – just when the carbon tax bills are going through Federal Parliament?

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    pat

    don’t know whether this is some new leak, but was just on carbon expo website and noticed it…

    Carbon Expo Twitter feed – righthand column
    good SMH RT @bencubby Here is a pdf, obtained by SMH, of the Coalition’s strategy for opposing the #carbontax http://t.co/cxtwu5Y #climate
    http://www.carbonexpo.com.au/

    Coalition in Confidence
    Not for distribution in this format
    September 2011
    http://images.smh.com.au/file/2011/09/13/2621816/Coalition%20carbon%20tax%20talking%20points%20talking%20points.pdf

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    Bulldust

    Abbott, the lesser of the two evils leadership-wise, slams the PM for being on the “wrong side of teh truth”, and quite rightly so:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-plan/history-to-judge-carbon-vote-julia-gillard/story-fn99tjf2-1226136607442

    It is going to get quite entertaining in Canberra in the days ahead.

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    pat

    ah yes, they still have the babies and kiddies on board the CAGW gravy train. pity they don’t pay for anything. Say Yes campaign is Oxfam’s cute idea!

    14 Sept: SMH: Tony Wright: Prime Minister makes kids’ stuff of environment legislation
    For this tilt at history involving what Ms Gillard calls a clean energy future – a carbon tax having somehow failed to grab the public imagination in a positive sort of way – fresh-faced kiddies were required.
    Naturally, a flurry of children appeared in a Parliament House courtyard and naturally, Ms Gillard hurried to insert herself within the happy children whom came equipped with crayons and poster-sized placard-paper, and earth mothers and earnest fathers flustered about organising a picnic.
    No sausage sizzle here, though – the picnic table groaned with vegetable sandwiches and slices of fruit, for this was a picnic organised by the serious-minded Say Yes! To Action on Climate Change…
    Ms Gillard settled on a picnic blanket amid the rosy-cheeked children (global warming, alas, was giving Canberra a miss, and the temperature mid-morning was chilblain-inducing) and admired their crayon work. ”Say yes to the environment,” one of the infant geniuses had written, complete with correct spelling.
    ”And what are you drawing?” Ms Gillard inquired of a little boy. ”I’m making a wind turbine,” he replied. Why, of course. What else? These were the children of a clean energy future, offspring of the Say Yes! To Action on Climate Change…
    Ms Gillard was keener to espouse the cleansing benefits of her carbon tax and, just as she got a Dorothy Dixer inviting her to hold forth on the subject, the public galleries above broke into a discordant hubbub.
    ”No carbon tax,” cried a chorus of protesters, over and over. No fresh-faced kiddies, these. Moustaches, print frocks and high blood pressure seemed to be everywhere.
    Ushers scurried about, ordered by Speaker Harry Jenkins to remove the hecklers. It seemed likely this brigade would have a sausage sizzle, carbon wafting into the air, waiting out the front.
    Ms Gillard might have had her Say Yes! To Action on Climate Change, but Mr Abbott suddenly had his own stunt performers, the Say No to the Carbon Tax…
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/prime-minister-makes-kids-stuff-of-environment-legislation-20110913-1k7un.html

    13 Sept: Australian: Ben Packham: Prime Minister Julia Gillard has introduced carbon tax bills into parliament
    Greens Deputy Leader Christine Milne said they reflected the agreement reached by the multi-party climate change committee, which included government, Greens and independent representatives.
    “This is a great day,” Senator Milne said.
    “You have no idea how excited people, particularly young people, are across the country right now.”
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/prime-minister-julia-gillard-has-introduced-carbon-tax-bills-into-parliament/story-fn59niix-1226135743707

    investors group – so keen on ridding the world of pollution. as for gillard staking her govt on passing the tax, i thought it was gillard sacrificing her party’s future!

    13 Sept: Guardian: Reuters: Australian carbon tax plan goes to parliament
    Gillard has staked her minority government’s future on passing the laws, which would force around 500 big polluting companies to pay for carbon emissions through a A$23 (£15) per tonne carbon tax from July 2012, before emissions trading from mid 2015…
    The Investor Group on Climate Change, whose members control more than A$600bn of investments, said it was crucial the bills were passed to give businesses and investors time to prepare for the scheme to start in mid 2012.
    “We know we must achieve lower domestic emissions, send clear investment signals and support a stronger international agreement. It’s time to get on with the job,” said the group’s chief executive, Nathan Fabian…
    Big polluting industries which are also exporters such as steel producers and aluminium smelters will receive 94.5% of carbon permits for free, while moderate-emitting exporters will receive 66% of permits for free…
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/13/australian-carbon-tax-plan-parliament

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    Winston

    The passivity of the Australian people is a source of much exasperation. On the one hand, the vast majority believe Al Gore is a charlatan, instinctively they know he is an investment banker in green clothing, profiteering monumentally like the old time “rainmakers”, snake oil salesmen or the like. Instinctively, they also know that it’s odd to see such an unqualified person pretending scientific credentials when he has none, and they also know the drastic predictions of climate catastrophe have been heard before and time and again shown to be bunkum. And they also know instinctively that this man is the ultimate hypocrite, jetting around the globe with a hoard of hangers-ons, punching his own personal “hole in the ozone layer” and with a carbon footprint the size of Saskatchewan.

    Yet, on the other hand, they can’t help but think that it’s their lot in life to be fleeced and robbed by people like this, that they must remain silent while the futures of their grandchildren are sold down the river, and they are so mesmerised by glossy infomercial presentations like “An Inconvenient Truth” and the Hollywood celebrity “authority” that they so readily admire and acquiesce to, that their own self interests are somehow of secondary importance.

    I think our people think that at the next election they will have the opportunity to redress bad governance, but they fail to realise that once the foot is in the door, once the thin end of the wedge is applied, that it is difficult or impossible to reverse the process once in train. I only hope one day someone will have the guts to sue the pants of any of those who have knowingly misled, deceived, altered or omitted to gain profit from this apparent scam inflicted upon humanity.

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    Penelope

    What a brilliant video! Spot on the money. Captures the whole stinking culture of negation. BTW I notice John Cook won a Eureka prize for his website site Skeptical Science. Brilliant stuff, I wonder when the oil companies will nominate Nova for a prize!

    ____________

    Jo has never received a penny from any oil company for this Web site. On the contrary, many oil companies have spent fortunes promoting the global warming scare, because the same companies have huge carbon trading and sequestration schemes waiting to be implemented, and stand to make far more money off of these than from selling oil. Carbon trading was invented by Enron. The CRU has received massive donations from Big Oil. Many of the luminaries of the global warming movement are heavily invested in Big Oil, in direct contradiction to their stated beliefs. Global warming alarmism is an industry, not a charity, and its bishops are hedging their bets. — Editor

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    John Brookes

    Wasn’t that “no carbon tax” chanting group of oldies in Canberra a sight for sore eyes?

    Of course Julia will end up on the wrong side of history. The side that tried to do something but were defeated by the side that wanted to do nothing.

    The “do nothing” side will end up running the place and trying to cope with the problems that warming causes.

    Oh well.

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    PaulM

    Roy Hogue

    I’ve said it before, any ETI that stumbles across our world will be too busy laughing to be hostile. Interstellar travel would be expensive, interstellar warfare would be more so. They would simply sit in orbit and observe the paramount predator of the planet classing the basic element for all lifeforms on that planet as pollution and industriously erradicating if from existence and simply wait to be able to exploit the barren rock at much less cost.

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    cohenite

    You are wrong John Brookes; I don’t want to do nothing; REAL pollution issues have to be dealt with. More importantly the wider issue of how humanity interacts with nature needs to be discussed. Right now the pro-AGW side with its green base has subverted this issue by advocating that ‘nature’ has a superior value to humanity and that when there is conflict between humanity and ‘nature’ that humanity should give way to ‘nature’. At the heart of this view is a misanthropic value which has not been appreciated or discussed much. There is an article written by Jo at Unleashed/Drum but the site appears to be down.

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    Barry@18 I should imagine that Gore, Combet and Gillard would have an above average IQ but would score abysmally on an EQ (emotional intelligence) test. Gillard being the lowest in my opinion.

    To me, it also explains the fact that some highly educated people accept the AGW theory without question. I refer to these people as “educated idiots” as evidenced by the good Doctor on the other thread that is still tilting at the windmill.

    Another interesting observation is the fact that the most hard core proponents of this pagan religion are atheists. Not religious in any way, live and let live is my axiom…until others’ beliefs impinge on my personal freedoms.

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    Bob Malloy

    Penelope:
    September 14th, 2011 at 11:16 am
    BTW I notice John Cook won a Eureka prize for his website site Skeptical Science. Brilliant stuff,

    Penelope, your prize winning John Cook gets the following advice from R.A. Pielke Sr. A scientist that both sides of the this debate must concede positions himself on neither team, a true independant voice.

    weblogs such as Skeptical Science, if they want to move the debate on the climate issues forward, need to move towards a more constructive approach.

    A ringing endorsment of John Cook, I don’t think.

    http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2011/09/12/scientific-robustness-of-the-university-of-alabama-at-huntsville-msu-data/

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    Mark D.

    JB @ 39

    Interesting perspective.

    Definition of Liberal (US style) one who sees imaginary problems that HAVE to be “fixed” NOW!!!.
    Definition of conservative: What problems?

    Maybe………

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    Winston

    John

    Of course Julia will end up on the wrong side of history. The side that tried to do something but were defeated by the side that wanted to do nothing.

    I hope you are correct, so that sanity can be restored, proper management of resources and the environment can resume, hopefully encouraging the developing world to follow suit with improving their poor environmental management issues. Greater attention can now be paid to properly resourcing innovation and objective science rather than putting the cart before the horse and pretending that that is the appropriate way to go. Many of the causes you aspire to, I believe , will ironically be more advantaged once unfettered by global warming catastrophisation which is nothing more than a smokescreen for global banker parasites to gouge money out of the public purse for their own ends. You should at least be happy with that, because whether you know it or not, you’ve been dancing with the devil for quite some time and it will take alot of cold showers to wash away the residue of this ill concieved marriage of convenience.

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    pat

    poor old auntie – they had this headline which is still on google,

    Turnbull could sit out carbon debate
    ABC Online – ‎13 minutes ago‎
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-14/carbon-debate-gets-underway/2898658

    but had to change it to this, while still making it as much a turnbull piece as they could manage:

    14 Sept: ABC: Jeremy Thompson: Abbott opens carbon debate
    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott launched a vehement attack on the Government’s carbon pricing plans as debate got underway in parliament today, but his predecessor Malcolm Turnbull may sit out the chance to speak on the issue.
    Thirty-eight MPs are scheduled to speak on the emissions trading package today, but former Opposition leader Mr Turnbull might not be one of them.
    Mr Turnbull, who has publicly criticised his own party’s position on the carbon price, was on the list to speak, but a spokesman has told the ABC he won’t be speaking, saying his name was placed on the list by mistake.
    But later, via Twitter, Mr Turnbull said he had not yet made up his mind.
    “I will decide whether and if so when I speak after I have heard the other speakers and read the legislation,” Mr Turnbull tweeted.
    A withdrawal would save the Coalition the potential embarrassment of having one of its most senior members stray from its intractable opposition to the climate change legislation…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-14/carbon-debate-gets-underway/2898658

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    pat

    Bolt has this up, but is not allowing comments.
    however, all the Unions that have Super Funds need to inform their Members (who pay ridiculously high dues) what plans they have for investing Members’ Super in CAGW-related concerns, because their members are wondering why they haven’t been called out to oppose the carbon (dioxide) tax, and they don’t want their Super wasted in nonsense schemes:

    14 Sept: SMH: Paramedics attack deal linked to union boss
    Kate Mcclymont, Kelly Burke, Nick O’Malley
    PARAMEDICS claim that an uncompetitive and compulsory insurance scheme they were forced into by the Health Services Union has delivered $35 million into an industry fund of which the HSU boss, Michael Williamson, is a director…
    In that position he brokered a deal with First State Super in 2007 which, in effect, converted the state’s 4000-strong ambulance force into compulsory First State Super customers.
    At the same time, he was collecting an undisclosed remuneration package from First State Super as one of 10 non-executive directors, who with eight executive officers shared in almost $3 million worth of employee benefits last year, according to the fund’s annual report.
    The death and disability scheme is widely unpopular with the paramedics who each have about $1500 a year deducted from their pay by the union.
    ”We are forced into paying three times what we need to … [as a garnishee] for death and disability,” one paramedic said.
    Another said the policy ran out when the employee turned 60. After that you were left to your own devices, ”even though you may have been paying for 30-plus years”….
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/paramedics-attack-deal-linked-to-union-boss-20110913-1k7wp.html

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    PaulM

    A withdrawal would save the Coalition the potential embarrassment of having one of its most senior members stray from its intractable opposition to the climate change legislation…

    What embarrament would that be.

    The coalition could only be embarrased if the Member for Goldman Sachs was to do something unexpected.

    The Member for Goldman Sachs has form for speaking out in support of Climate Action, to think that him speaking in support of the Clean Energy bill would embarras the Opposition is simply ignoring Turnbull performance to date.

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    I’m the Denier, and asking to be reviled, reviewed. If is known what is on my website, would be the end of the propaganda in few months. I am asking Skeptics and Warmist; if you have stomach for real proofs login http://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com oxygen + nitrogen are 998999ppm. They are regulating the atmospheric temperature to be same every hour of every day / year and millennia. when they warm up, for any reason – they expand up into coldness of minus -90C. Intercept extra appropriate coldness in 3,5 seconds – fall down in a jiffy. Because of upper winds and fast spinning of the planet – the extra coldness falls some other place = that other place becomes colder = overall same warmth units in the troposphere (even during ice age)

    Europe / USA can get colder by 8 degrees – Oceania gets warmer by 0,8 degrees to equalize, because is 10 times larger. The big ice age was similar as the last 2-3 Januaries’ temperature; only on much larger scale. When was freezing in Europe / USA, was extra hot simultaneously in Australia. The laws of physics are regulating the temperature, not the climatologist. Unless they abolish the laws of physics in the Parliament and in UN, Warmist + Skeptics are both barking up the same wrong tree. It’s time to update your proofs on my website. Skeptics constantly being sarcastic about the Warmist; is waste of time. Help me to present ”real proofs, beyond any reasonable doubt” to see the end of the propaganda. Unless one has wasted interest, the propaganda to continue… Rely on what is reliable; laws of physics / chemistry / arithmetic. Those laws and my formulas say: for the last 150y the sun has produced tremendous heat on our planet – all gone (not enough extra heat cumulated to boil one chicken egg). Same heat left, as was 151y ago. Extra heat in the atmosphere is not cumulative. because of INSTANT expansion of O+N.

    Laundering taxpayer’s money by the Warmist is lucrative business (some active Skeptics are benefiting also) everybody else is a loser. logon my website, before they bankrupt the democratic west.

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    Popeye

    Scaper @ 42

    “Barry@18 I should imagine that Gore, Combet and Gillard would have an above average IQ but would score abysmally on an EQ (emotional intelligence) test. Gillard being the lowest in my opinion.”

    Tend to agree on all counts and explain below.

    In the Navy we had a term called “CDF”.

    This term stood for “Common Dog F%$#” and basically meant no matter how smart someone was if they had no CDF they didn’t exhibit any common sense (the sort of common sense that dogs exhibit when they first meet and sniff each others privates).

    I’m SURE that most of the AGW believers and proponents have no CDF whatsoever.

    Cheers,

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    Damian Allen

    [snip]

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    Damian Allen

    [snip]

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    Bulldust

    Penelope:

    Yes, notice how Gore got prizes for a wildly inaccurate film as well? The progressives (aka socialists) are good at patting each other on the back for spreading the gospel of CAGW. What exactly is your point? John Cook is a walking embarrassment to the scientific process. The ironically-named Sceptical Science is anything but. It is an echo chamber which censors many of the scpetical views not aligned with that of the author.

    Last time I checked propoganda =/= science.

    It truth Cook should get literary awards… science fiction category. Maybe a fruiterer of the year award* as well, for his excellent cherry-picking work.

    * Concept borrowed from a poster at WUWT.

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    Winston

    scaper @42

    Barry@18 I should imagine that Gore, Combet and Gillard would have an above average IQ but would score abysmally on an EQ (emotional intelligence) test. Gillard being the lowest in my opinion.

    Excellent point, scaper, extremely insightful and no doubt true. Most of these people are intelligent after a fashion (some possibly very “smart”), but they all lack empathy and compassion which are the most outward signs of emotional intelligence(EI). It is their inherent collective narcissism that causes them to fail to see, or care about, the consequences of their actions, or for the wider aspirations or concerns of the common man, whom they believe are beneath them.

    The ambition required to attain high public office, and the “absolute” power they believe they have obtained in that role, merely serves to feed their over-arching egotism and their deluded belief in their intellectual superiority over all those around them. They surround themselves with siccophants and brown nosers who seek reflected glory by providing these “great men and women” with a distorted mirror to give unwarranted reinforcement of their belief systems which are further entrenched as a result.

    Humility, another sign of EI, becomes untenable in such a hermetically sealed box of self congratulation, and never once do these paragons ever take a moment to contemplate the intellectual vacuum to which they have consigned themselves. So they become immune to dissenting opinion, overly convinced of their own infallability, with logic and common sense flying out the window.

    Inevitably, however, the universal law of entropy means that eventually reality must collide at some point, and the house of cards is torn asunder. It all ends in tears of recrimination and regret as to how it all went wrong.

    In most cases, the great (wo)man will never have the EI to accept responsibility for their own decisions and subsequent downfall, and a collection of excuses and extenuating circumstances will be found to blame it all on the ill fortunes of war. Such is life, unfortunately, that those who lead us are often the people least well-adapted for the role.

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    Damian@50 The aliens will have to get in line, as far as the Australian proponents are concerned because when this is over they will be dragged through the courts to cleanse the name of science.

    We were going to “GO” them earlier this year but it is most difficult to cull protected species.

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    Overseasinsider

    JB @ 39

    Wasn’t that “no carbon tax” chanting group of oldies in Canberra a sight for sore eyes?
    Of course Julia will end up on the wrong side of history. The side that tried to do something but were defeated by the side that wanted to do nothing.
    The “do nothing” side will end up running the place and trying to cope with the problems that warming causes.
    Oh well.

    Can you please explain to us how this “Carbon” tax is going to lower global temps??? Prevent future “climate disasters”?? How it’s going to do ANYTHING other than cost all of us more money and put that money into the pockets of the financial elite??

    Come on JB, any intelligent answer will do.

    But I won’t be holding my breath!!!

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    Bulldust

    Surprisingly the ABC put up a piece calling the whole Australian climate debate fraudulent:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-14/kohler-unspoken-truth-about-carbon-permits/2898600

    Have a read – a surprisingly frank and honest piece about the policy by ABC standards. Alan Kohler questions where the permits are to come from which Australia buys from overseas under the Government’s climate model.

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    Craig Goodrich

    Jo,

    Thanks for another great post. One point, though –

    About twenty minutes into every episode, Desi finds out what’s actually going on and says, “Loooo – seee!?” At which point Lucy, brilliant comedienne that she is, gives us a priceless series of facial expressions, indicating simultaneously that she realizes The Jig Is Up and that Maybe I Can Get Away With It if only …

    Aliens watching this would inevitably conclude that humans have a highly developed moral sense and greatly value truth and honesty. Compare that with the current state of Climate Pscience.

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    Bulldust

    I posted to the Kohler article:

    Thanks Alan – a balanced piece of commentary is an unfortunately rare sight at the ABC, you are to be commended. It is indeed ludicrous that Australia debates not one, but two new massive taxes at a time when the world is about to topple back into a prolonged recession. For those who do not understand the latter I suggest reading a bit about “deleveraging recessions” and how they are different to normal recessions.

    Australia is about to see massive wealth destruction and the current minority Government wants to hobble the populace with further cost of living increases. Insainity by any measure. Add to that the increase of personal income taxes by bracket creep… oh yes, we hadn’t forgotten about that had we?

    Let’s say you had an income of $80,000 in 2010-11. Assuming a CPI increase and matching pay increase of 2.5%, you will be $740 dollars worse off in 2011-12 just because of bracket creep. Given there is no announced increase in tax brackets for 2012-13 (other than as compensation against the carbon [dioxide] tax – which is tax neutral at $80k) we are in for another dose of bracket creep, costing around $760 (based on another year of 2.5% inflation and a further pay increase).

    That’s assuming you still have a job and get a 2.5% pay increase…. if not you are at least thousands of dollars worse off. Welcome to Julia’s Australia. Oh and the Government is talking about robbing the Future Fund as well in a chase for their aspirational 2012-13 surplus target…

    If it were a business, the leaders would have been dropped for financial mismanagement long ago…

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    Just in case anyone was wondering (thanks for prodding madjak) “whale killing windmills” was not just a flippant joke… I’ve added the link I should have put in: http://waznmentobe.com/uncategorized/wind-turbines-kill-whales.html

    Jo

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    J.H.

    CO2 is not a pollutant…. To tax an atmospheric trace gas essential to life is nothing but political chicanery.

    Coal is the cheapest form of energy available to baseload electricity supply. Anyone who tries to introduce an artificial price on cheap coal is a con artist….. or worse.

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    stelladust

    Jo
    Thank you for all your efforts. I admire the work you do. You are the antithesis of the present leader of the Labour Party being intelligent, well informed, honest and articulate. JN for PM!
    I feel inadequate in not being able to do more than e-mail our pollies the odd article with my comments. Is there an easy way to e-mail them all en masse?
    Keep up the good work.

    REPLY: Thanks! And YES, go to my index page, look right at the bottom and look for emails to parliament. — JN

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    pat

    14 Sept: Canberra Times: Carbon tax a ‘political suicide note’
    The carbon tax is the “longest political suicide note in Australian history”, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says…
    He said it was one thing to change your mind as circumstances change, but it was another thing to “pervert the democratic process of this country by saying one thing before an election to win votes and to do the exact opposite after the election to hold on to your job”.
    “That is precisely what this Prime Minister has done. What she hasn’t done is the decent, honest thing which would have been to take a change of position, had that genuinely taken place, to take a change of position to the people at an election,’’ he said.
    “That’s what this Prime Minister should do. If this Prime Minister trusts in the democratic process, if this Prime Minister trusts her own judgement, trusts her own argument, that is what she should be doing. She should be taking this to the people.’’
    He said Ms Gillard’s “big chest-thumping talk of a massive reduction in emissions” was wrong.
    “We aren’t reducing our emissions, we are just engaging in a massive transfer of wealth from this country to carbon traders overseas,’’ he said.
    “Our current emissions are 578 million tonnes. What we are supposed to be doing, if we are to reduce our emissions by 5 per cent on 2000 figures by 2020 is getting it down to 530 million tonnes.
    “… The Government’s own figures say that we are in fact increasing our own domestic emissions from 578 million tonnes to 621 million tonnes. Now, what’s the point?’’
    He said there would be an immediate 10 per cent increase in electricity prices, a 9 per cent increase in gas bills under the carbon tax.
    “Once the price goes up to $29 a tonne, to $131 a tonne, as it’s forecast to do on the Government’s own figures, these prices for gas and electricity just go up and up and up and that’s the last thing, Mr Speaker, that the people of Australia need given that they have suffered from price rise after price rise in the three-and-a-half years since this government came to office,’’ he said…
    Independent MP Rob Oakeshott, who was on the multi-party committee that helped design the carbon tax and emissions trading scheme, said he had promised to price carbon at both times he stood for federal Parliament.
    “Unlike many others who chop and change or describe themselves as ‘weathervanes’ on climate change, my word is my bond and I do what I can to uphold that bond,’’ he said.
    He said he had supported the scheme because “common sense tells me to seek and trust expert advice”.
    “If your child is sick, you go to the local doctor for trusted medical advice. … The issue of climate change is no different,’’ he said.
    “Even the most conservative Australian scientific advisers, including the CSIRO who we’ve trusted for seventy years, tell us that climate change is a real risk demanding a response. The most conservative Australian economic advisers insist that the lowest cost response is to make the biggest emitting businesses reduce, or pay for, their emissions.
    “I have respected and accepted this expert advice, on both the science and the economics.”
    He said the House was not facing a choice between an emissions trading scheme and nothing.
    “It is a choice between an ETS or a Liberal/National grants tax that Australia is consistently being denied the details of,’’ he said.
    “The Liberal Party and the National Party is pursuing the same reduction in emissions, relying heavily on just one technology, to be purchased at an assumed price, by a government fund, with any trade in carbon emissions specifically prevented.
    “And big emitters under this approach face the real possibility of financial penalties if they expand, with no opportunity to buy offsetting abatement from another source – a potential job killer and, potential economic growth killer.”
    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/national/national/general/carbon-tax-a-political-suicide-note/2291682.aspx

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    Bulldust

    Jo:

    There appears to be some controversy over offshore windmills & whale beachings, with some stating the research has been misrepresented:

    http://mediamatters.org/research/201104040031

    If this is the correct media statement they certainly talk about whales being scared of sonars:

    http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/news/archive/2011/Title,65795,en.html

    With the paper here:

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0017009

    Word searches on “windmill” and “offshore” yield zero results on both the paper and the media statement. The authors do postulate that the whales appear to be sensitive to strange noises in their environment, and it follows that offshore windfarms would introduce strange noises, so…

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    Bulldust

    I see the Parliamentary Secretary for Climate Change has lost his marbles… he is describing the Government’s policy as “…essential to save the world from catastrophic climate change.” You really have to wonder if they care whether they look like complete and utter tools:

    http://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/abbott-condemns-illegitimate-carbon-tax-20110914-1k8kf.html

    Good ole Australia… saving the world from catastrophic climate change. What would the world do without us to save it?

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    Bulldust

    Back again… and in case anyone had thought it was a tad quiet on the economic front and the big bad recession wolf had gone away, blam!

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/moodys-downgrades-french-banks/story-e6frg91o-1226136977853

    This is a major and predictable domino to fall in Europe. In case the significance is lost on readers here, France and Germany underpin the Eurozone. It is critical that their banks be viewed as economically robust, which they are not. You may also have noticed that Italy is struggling to find many takers for their Government debt, any only at higher rates.

    This is another signal of the impending recession/depression.

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    Crakar24

    Yes Bulldust there is never enough spin to keep the economy glued together, i heard the other day that Bwak Obama has ordered the EPA to hold off on its revision of the periodic table as it will damage the only sector that is creating jobs.

    Bwak thinks it will do harm to his economy whilst Julia thinks it will save hers.

    You can call Bwak many things but is not stupid………………………..

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    PaulM

    This is a major and predictable domino to fall in Europe.

    Alan Kholer was discussing this possibility the other day. And whilst this is only Moodys there is the possibility that others will follow. From what Kholer said, there are 9 Major International banks in France who hold the largest share of Greek & Italian Debt that will face a write down in the value of this debt if a downgrade is across all agencies and will with the stroke of a pen become insolvent as they won’t have the capital to support their debt load. The next couple of days are going to be interesting, to say the least.

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    Winston

    Barack at least knows that when your balls are in a vice you don’t turn the screw tighter. You don’t have to be a genius to work it out. Yet Julia seems to struggle with the bleeding obvious.

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    Crakar24

    Because she does not have balls?

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    PaulM

    Because she does not have balls?

    Considering she also doesn’t understand the adage that when you’re up to your neck in a hole, stop digging, I’d say it more a matter brains than balls.

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    Crakar24

    I think it is more a matter that she is just doing what she is told.

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    Winston

    Because she does not have balls?

    Not so sure about that one, pure conjecture at this stage. And not game to investigate further. I’ll leave that to better men than I, Gunga Din! Perhaps better to consider them as figurative rather than literal, then we have it all covered.

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    memoryvault

    Crakar24 @ 71

    I think it is more a matter that she is just doing what she is told.

    Spot on, Crakar.

    Aussie politicians of all the major parties regularly attend “meetings”, “functions”, “dinners” and “addresses” at CEDA – the Committee for Economic Development of Australia.

    At these cosy “invitation-only” get-togethers the pollies (and others) are basically “told” where things are supposed to be two to four years down the track. And that is pretty-much what happens.

    Not that CEDA actually “decide” these things. They are just a very elaborate, high-class PR machine for the dissemination of marching orders from the masters to their minions.

    About five years ago, CEDA were promoting the “need” for an ETS. And that’s the message we got from the pollies – LIB and LAB.

    Then, in the wake of Dopenhaven and climategate, when going straight to an ETS became a “bridge too far”, the CEDA piper changed the tune in March last year to a carbon tax “precursor” to an ETS – a sort of “softener” – “boil the frogs more slowly” approach.

    And that’s what we are getting now. From BOTH parties, in one form or another.

    THAT is why the LIBS STILL have a “climate change” policy.

    THAT is why it is incredibly dangerous to elect the LIBS with an “overwhelming mandate” to effect a climate policy, while at the same time they have in the wings Goldman Sachs investment banker Malcolm Turnbull only too willing to do his master’s bidding.

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    janama

    Top marks to Bronwyn Bishop in Parliament today. She called a point of order whilst Julia was raving on about the right thing to do etc and accused her of making a valedictory speech! :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valedictorian

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    Siliggy

    What happened in the Senate today?

    General business – notices of motion –
    No. 403 – Senators Williams and Nash – Carbon tax and ‘Convoy of No Confidence’
    rallies
    1 If a notice of motion is declared formal it will be put and determined without amendment or debate. Any
    senator may object to a notice of motion being declared formal, in which case it will be listed for debate
    at a subsequent time

    http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/work/red/red.pdf

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    Popeye

    Here’s something doing the rounds that I thought worth posting – bit offf topic but shows the calibre of our elected Labor representatives.

    THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE MORONS IN OUR GOVERNMENT – GOD HELP US!!!!!

    Peter Garrett (ex lead singer of Midnight Oil, now a Minister in the Labor Government of Australia)

    PETER GARRETT IS DEFINITELY A COUPLE OF CANS SHORT OF A SLAB!
    The Australian Government and the NSW Forestry Service were presenting an alternative to NSW sheep farmers for controlling the dingo population.

    It seems that after years of the sheep farmers using the tried and true methods of shooting and/or trapping the predators, the Labor Government (Peter Garrett – Environment Minister), the NSW Forestry Service and the Greens tree-huggers had a ‘more humane’ solution.

    What they proposed was for the animals to be captured alive, the males would then be castrated and let loose again.

    Therefore the population would be controlled.

    This was ACTUALLY proposed to the NSW Sheep Farmers Association.

    All of the sheep farmers thought about this amazing idea for a couple of minutes.

    Finally, one of the old boys in the back of the conference room stood up, tipped his hat back and said, ‘Mr Garrett, son, I don’t think you understand our problem, ‘those dingo’s ain’t f—ing our sheep, they’re eatin’ ‘em.’

    You should have been there to hear the roar of laughter as Mr Peter Garrett and the members of the NSW Forestry Service, the Greens and the other “tree huggers” left the meeting very “sheepishly”.

    This is one of the things wrong with this country, the Tree Huggers and Morons are running the circus! Jeeesus! Someone save us from these idiots…..

    True or not – it IS funny!!

    Cheers,

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    Brett_McS

    Just finished listening to James Delingpole on the latest Ricochet podcast (James Lileks, Peter Robinson etc); he gave big reps to Jo Nova for her research into the relative funding from government and business of the AGW crew versus the Sceptics; a little factor of 3500 to 1. Well done, Jo!

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    Another Ian

    The Gorathon!

    If you’ve got the stamina of Josh view by the hour!

    http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2011/9/14/the-gorathon.html

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    Bruce D Scott

    I saw one of the scientists involved in the alien study being interviewed on Fox by O’Reily, I was embarrassed for him. He reminded me of Tim Flannery under a little straight questioning.

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    memoryvault

    Bruce D Scott @ 81

    I don’t think Flim-Flammery sees aliens as a problem. According to him, sometime this year Mother Gaia is going to become some sort of a living, sentient being.

    I’m sure, according to Tim, our earth Mother made incarnate will be able to see off a bunch of alien rabble.

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    Joe Lalonde

    Jo,

    What is stopping companies from pulling out?

    Current governments are no better than the market system of imposing regulations and policies while introducing new programs in the hope of a growing economy will pay for it in the future. Many countries are far more profitable to establish in with much less regulation and taxation.

    So where is the attraction to invest in Australia?
    The carbon tax system is certainly only a money mover and NOT a work creator or attractor of new ideas.

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    Mark D.

    Slightly off topic but the EPA is silently accomplishing some of what the Goreites want by forcing coal power facilities to close and soon!:

    http://www.pennenergy.com/index/power/display/2296303578/articles/pennenergy/power/coal/2011/september/luminant-to_shutter.html?cmpid=EnlDailyPowerSeptember142011

    Luminant leadership announced the need to close facilities to comply with the Environmental Protection Agency’s Cross-State Air Pollution Rule, which will cause the loss of approximately 500 jobs.

    and:

    Luminant submitted to the EPA a request for reconsideration and stay of the new rule on August 5, on which the agency has not acted. This morning, the company filed a petition with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit asking the court to invalidate CSAPR as to Texas. As part of its action, Luminant also plans to ask the court to stay the applicability of the EPA rule. In its request for a stay, the company will demonstrate that:

    • Without fair notice and the opportunity to provide comment, the EPA has mandated that Texas slash its SO2 emissions by half and greatly reduce NOx emissions in less than five months — a compliance timetable that is impossible to meet without facility closures and job cuts.

    • The standard time frame for permitting, constructing, and installing new emission controls is several years, yet the rule allowed less than six months.

    • The state would bear 25 percent of the SO2 reduction burden imposed under this rule, which is more than twice the state’s contribution to the total SO2 emissions of all states included in the rule. Before these mandates go into effect, current SO2 emissions rates for the state’s power generation plants are already lower than the average of the other states included in the rule.

    • Having less than a year ago concluded that Texas SO2 emissions have no significant downwind effects, the EPA is now mandating these CSAPR reductions because the agency predicts, through its modeling, a small contribution from Texas to the air quality at a single monitor 500 miles away in Madison County, Illinois — a location EPA itself has concluded is in air-quality attainment based on actual air sample monitoring. In effect, the rule improperly elevates the EPA’s hypothetical modeling over actual monitored conditions.

    • Similarly, the rule imposes severe NOx emission reductions on Luminant, based on modeling that conflicts with actual monitored conditions.

    • These requirements will seriously jeopardize the ability of the state’s electric grid to supply power to Texas businesses and consumers and cause the loss of hundreds of jobs with corresponding effects on local communities whose economies depend on Luminant’s facilities.

    The last paragraph is what I fear we are all in for. Without a proper plan to provide replacement sources of electrical power we are going to cause more brown and black-outs. The great USA is going to be living like a third world nation soon enough. This will be the legacy of the Green Malthusians.

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    Paul

    @David Cook, #33, check out WOMAD’s sponsor list, the top two sponsors are ‘big oil’. Now I know where my ‘big oil’ sceptic pay cheque went..

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    Just think of how many lives could have been saved with the money wasted on AGW and alternative energies? With out the “do-gooders”, literally trillions of dollars world wide could have been used to help the starving in Sub Saharan Africa and elsewhere. The amount of money wasted on AGW dwarfs the defense budgets of most major nations.

    And nothing is gained from it. No despot dethroned, no house warmed (or cooled), no baby fed. Gore is really a heartless b*stard.

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    I deeply appreciate your efforts, JoNova.

    Al Gore’s AGW scam fits nicely as the conclusion to this 50-year video summary of my research career (1961-2011).

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10640850/Video_Summary_of_Career.pdf

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10640850/Video_Summary_of_Career.doc

    Please feel free to use any portion that will assist you or anyone else in restoring:

    a.) Integrity to government science, and

    b.) Citizens’ control over our government.

    With kind regards,
    Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo

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    Andrew McRae

    Siliggy at 77.

    Yes, much machinations to be found in the Senate transcripts…

    Senator WILLIAMS (New South Wales—Nationals Whip in the Senate) (15:54): I, and also on behalf of Senator Nash, move:

    (b) requests that the Leader of the Australian Greens (Senator Bob Brown) and the Leader of the Government in
    the Senate (Senator Evans) apologise on behalf of their parties for derogatory comments made such as ‘Convoy of
    No Consequence’, ‘Convoy of Incontinence’ and ‘it’s a general smorgasbord of whingers’.

    Question put.
    The Senate divided. [15.59]

    Question negatived.

    If one were being cynical one might get the impression that Bob Brown takes the piss every chance he gets. But of course Bob Brown wouldn’t do such a thing, would he? Well just a few minutes earlier….

    Senator BOB BROWN: I move:
    That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the Telecommunications Act 1997 and the Australian
    Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Act 1998, and for related purposes …
    The Telecommunications Amendment (Mobile Phone Towers) Bill 2011 amends the Telecommunications Act 1997 to introduce the precautionary principle for the installation of mobile phone facilities
    ….
    The intention of the height limits in the Act has also been undermined by carriers as the limits do not include antennae, brackets and other equipment.
    ….
    The precautionary principle comes into play when there is a suspicion that an action may cause harm to the health of humans or the environment. In the case of mobile phone facilities there is no scientific consensus on the effects of long-term accumulated exposure to EMR, especially for children and adolescents. As such, carriers should take a cautious approach to the siting of facilities because there is an absence of evidence that they do not cause harm.

    Soo… phone towers are too tall and ugly and we suspect their radiation causes harm so unspeakable that I dare not even mention specifically what actual harm it causes and THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

    But how do you find positive evidence of something that did NOT occur? Isn’t that impossible by definition? As for failing to find a causal link in spite of there being every opportunity, does the last 15 years of mobile phone use not count? And isn’t there more likely to be risk from the phones placed against your head than from tower antennas separated by over 20m and a brick wall? Is there something Bob Brown knows that the Cancer Council doesn’t know?
    Now my head hurts and that’s not because of Orange it’s because of Green.

    But don’t despair folks…

    Senator CAMERON (New South Wales) (16:45):
    It is great that we have actually got a scientist in the National Party now. It is a real plus—a scientist in the National Party, Senator McKenzie—and I have asked her to give some basic scientific lessons to the leadership of the National Party in relation to climate change. It really is a big job for her and I hope she takes it up. I do not like her chances with Senator Boswell, Senator Joyce and Senator Williams but she should at least give it a go. She said she is a scientist and deals in scientific fact.

    Well McKenzie did vote against Ludwig’s motion to create a rigged Joint Select Committee for rubber stamping the Carbon Tax. Time will tell if this is about encouraging the scientific method or just about voting consistently with LNP policy. For what it’s worth, Labor already has at least one Senator who has a science degree – John Hogg, president of the Senate – and he backs the unscientific carbon tax at every step. Having a science degree is apparently not enough.

    But I think Wednesday’s slam dunk award has to go to Senator McDonald.

    Senator IAN MACDONALD:
    This huge tax is all about—
    Senator Hanson-Young interjecting—
    Senator IAN MACDONALD: You don’t like the truth of this, Senator Hanson-Young? Clearly the Greens do not want the facts to be known. Tell me, Senator Hanson-Young, is it true or not true that Australia emits less than 1.4 per cent of world emissions?
    Senator Hanson-Young: Why don’t you refer it to the committee?
    Senator IAN MACDONALD: You are absolutely right. I am not going to get the chance to go to the committee. Thank you very much, Senator Hanson-Young. It should go to a committee. I should be able to raise these points at a committee. I should be able to call witnesses. I should be able, with you, to question experts on whether it is true that Australia emits less than 1.4 per cent of world carbon emissions. I know what the experts will say, and it would be good if you were on the committee because you would understand from the experts that Australia only emits less than 1.4 per cent of world carbon emissions. You would also learn that stopping five per cent of that—we are aiming for five per cent—is not going to make one iota of difference to the changing climate of the world, and you know that. I would love to be in a committee with you, Senator Hanson-Young, where we could get the experts and we could get that all in. But I am not going to be given the chance.
    ….
    There will be a total of six from the Labor Party—a non-aligned member, I see—and two from the Greens. So it is eight to five. The party that represents most Australians, that has the biggest political representation in this chamber and in the whole parliament, will get a
    total of five people on the committee. This new committee, this gerrymander, is not going to follow the Senate practice of allowing participating members. Why is that not happening, Senator Hanson-Young? You and your Labor mates put this deal together. Why are you going against the normal Senate practice of allowing every senator to take part in committee investigations and not allowing
    participating members? The answer is that the Labor Party and the Greens do not want scrutiny of these bills. That is why this motion sets out that the committee will have a restricted amount of time to deal with 18 separate bills.
    ….
    In all the long years I have been in this parliament, I have never seen anything as undemocratic as this particular motion and the way it intends to deal with this legislation, allowing me and all my colleagues one minute per bill.
    ….
    How democratic is that? It is an affront to all Australians that a bill which is going to impose a major tax on the cost of living of
    every Australian will be rammed through this parliament by an unholy alliance, actually a holy alliance, I suspect, of the Greens and the Labor Party.

    WHO ORDERED THE CODE RED? WHO ORDERED THE CODE RED? I WANT THE TRUTH. YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

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    Personally I wonder if manmade global warming is the reason for paint chipping off my timber windows. If I was a climate scientist (or maybe just a green group will do), I might request a very large government grant to study this phenomena.

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    John from CA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgxEzQ5D64w

    Posted in case anyone missed this. : )

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    JoNova, would you be kind to give me a contact with the person that posted a comment on your blog under ‘’memoryvault’’ he hits the nail on the head; thinks same as me. PLEASE…

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    Popeye

    Oliver K M @ 87

    Oliver the links don’t work.

    Thanks mate.

    Cheers,

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    memoryvault

    Stefenthedenier @ 91

    I don’t think Jo’s in the business of handing people’s email addresses, Stefen.

    However, if you can give me some detail here of just why you’d like to contact me, I’ll arrange something.

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    Andrew McRae

    MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE
    Message No. 203, from the Senate was reported informing the House that Senators Birmingham, Cormann, Milne, Pratt and Urquhart had been appointed members of the Joint Select Committee on Australia’s Clean Energy Future Legislation, 9:42:06 AM.

    Rubber stamps are ready.

    Can the LNP put Bob Carter on the Joint Select Committee as their member if they pull some strings quickly?
    If these Greens are told in a recorded meeting by a qualified expert about the observed facts that show the tax is based on a lie, they will have no plausible deniability remaining. If they still pass the tax they won’t get away with it in the long run.

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    [...] Last ditch Goreathon: Scare, smear and slur – JoNova Al Gore hopes he has reality on his side. But the reality is the relentless slide of the polls. It’s the crashed Chicago Climate Exchange, the kaput green jobs. It’s the long list of countries who are are shaking themselves free of the eco-shackles. The apostles of a bygone cult are reduced to saying that warming causes cooling, death, disease and even prostitution in Ghana. The babbling last players standing are talking about saving the world from aliens. Sadly, those are not the nutters, no, they’re the ones from NASA. [...]

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    theRealUniverse

    Repeat post…

    Stop agruging science. This it totally pointless. Its is well known that CO2 doesnt affect the climate, theres more proof for than against, the agrguments are a waste of time and totaly futile the Gov has NO intention of beliving it because they know its true (climate change is baloney) they want the lie to continue.
    The point of this site should be to fix the ‘problem’ of the draconian and illegal, immoral TAX on the life gas CO2. The real reason that this Labor Gov is pushing this tax is a probably because of a rougue element inside the Gov. These will be moles who are representative of the global banking cartell the same cartell that was behind the failed Copenhagen conference and Cancun conference where they tried, and mostly failed to introduce fascist draconian world ‘Carbon’ taxes with dictat methods forcing Govts to adopt taxes and measures that would bankrupt them. This is a globalist agenda. If you dont believe it go live on another planet. These are the same globalist elites criminals that have started 7 wars under Obama, including Libya where they want the oil, also the funding of 911 terror through a rougue putch inside the US Govt. and many other things including the US debt downgrades the failing of the Euro and the European and US banks.
    And the Greek default which is NO fault of the Greek people.
    These moles will have either blackmailed Gilards Govt into intruducing such a tax or similar underhand activities. They have to be exposed. Theres no way the problem will go away unless the populas wake up and start by voting them out at least it will provide a shock syndrome to the Gov. Unfortunately this will not entirely fix the problem as the moles will just carry on their activity on whoever gets to replace the current Govt. but it may help slow the pace. These moles are probably not elected but officilas in high places put into office by the banksters and elitists or officials that are sympathisers that are easliy duped by offers they cant refuse. There are refernces to suspicious connections by some politicians to various organisations. Also added into the rougue mix will be green fanatics who believe in saving mother Gaia and dont see that they are stooges for the global banking cartell.

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    Siliggy

    Andrew McRae:
    September 15th, 2011 at 8:14 am
    Thanks for the links. It was the Convoy bit that got my ears but I could not figure out what happened because i had to go away from the radio for my work.

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    TechDel

    Personally, I congratulate Gore. Who else would have thought about doing a 24 hour infomercial to justify continuing to rip off the world and making himself the first carbon billionaire while impersonating a real human being. Can’t wait till he slithers away.

    @Madjak. You might not like Bush, but I’ll take ten Bushes over one Gore. And, if you are going to criticize Bush, get your facts straight, it was the Pakistani PM he could not name, not the British PM. Now the US has a president who stated he has visited 57 states, but the media continues to claim he is the smartest man in the world.

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    Gore threatened to bless us with “… a full-on assault on climate skeptics, exploring where they get their funding from…”

    Will that be the direct proof he has yet to provide for the 15-20 year old guilt-by-association accusation? His and everybody else’s accusation against skeptic scientists has been one-and-the-same for this entire time, based on otherwise unseen evidence that when viewed in its complete context (it took me 7 months to find it), has every appearance of being unsupportable and out-of-context. For more on that, please see my article here: “The Great Global Warming Ponzi Scheme – how the mainstream media keeps it alive” http://www.redstate.com/russellc/2011/08/17/the-great-global-warming-ponzi-scheme-how-the-mainstream-media-keeps-it-alive/

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    memoryvault, I got the message,so here is why: you stated that is no global warming. My book has all the scientific proofs why is no GLOBAL warming /why it cannot be. That puts us in category of not believers; which is more than being sceptical; Believer is 90% believing; Skeptic is 90% not believing. Non believer is 100%

    Because you don’t believe; no need to convince you that 98 was same temp as today. Only the non-believers can stop the Warmist. If you want to use all the real proofs beyond any reasonable doubt; they are on my new website: http://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com Have a look, there is even condensed version of my book. Only real proofs can stop them. Proofs that can be proven /demonstrated now; no need to wait to 2100 to see that the Warmist are wrong.

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    Posted on September 16, 2011 09:52

    Australians have less than a week to make submissions on Julia Gillard’s carbon tax that she explicitly promised to never introduce.

    Yesterday the Labor-Greens dominated inquiry into the 1,100-plus pages of carbon tax legislation resolved to give Australians just six days to make submissions to the inquiry, despite the massive impact this tax will have.

    ‪The committee was also advised that there was not enough time to hold hearings in all states. Most Australians will miss out on the chance to be heard, with those outside of the eastern states or in regional Australia likely to have to resort to phone or video conferencing at best.

    ‪Despite Julia Gillard making it as hard as possible for Australians to have their say on her carbon tax, I urge Australians to make their views known by lodging a submission, no matter how brief.

    Written submissions must be received by next Thursday, 22 September. They can be emailed to jscacefl@aph.gov.au or posted to the select committee care of Parliament House, Canberra.

    ‪Labor is already denying Australians a vote on whether or not to have a carbon tax, but hopefully people will not allow Julia Gillard’s tactics to silence them as well.

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    Roy Hogue

    I’ve said it before, any ETI that stumbles across our world will be too busy laughing to be hostile. Interstellar travel would be expensive, interstellar warfare would be more so. They would simply sit in orbit and observe the paramount predator of the planet classing the basic element for all lifeforms on that planet as pollution and industriously erradicating if from existence and simply wait to be able to exploit the barren rock at much less cost.

    Paul M.

    An interesting point, who would want this mess? But I was thinking of reality. Just to get to Earth from our nearest neighbor, about 30 light-years, is an insurmountable task.

    To get here within the lifetime of the crew would take speeds that could easily require total conversion of the entire mass of the spacecraft. So I think that’s out of the question, much less a longer trip of hundreds or thousands of light-years.

    So you settle for the long slow way. The trip could take hundreds of years or thousands, during which you must have a completely self contained spacecraft that never suffers a catastrophic failure in all that time. It must be capable of any and all repairs and maintenance being performed by the onboard crew alone, without help from Houston — no phone calls saying, “Houston, we have a problem.” The crew must be able to reproduce itself on the way and depend on each new generation taking up the challenge. They must maintain the high standard of discipline required for such a venture, something we humans can’t manage to do for just a decade since 9/11.

    And when they finally get here they must have remained dedicated to the reason they made the trip. They will have dedicated monumental resources to making the trip and they will want something for their effort. I doubt that we’ll find them to be friendly. Throughout history any contact of two cultures has resulted in the more technological simply overwhelming the less technological, or worse.

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    Kevin Moore

    Roy Hogue @ 102

    Just a trivial correction. What was actually said was “we’ve had a problem.”

    Apollo 13 audio,

    http://www.maniacworld.com/apollo_13.htm

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    NicG

    To Reed Coray @ 1, Roy Hogue @ 30, PaulM @ 40 and various others.

    On the subject of aliens visiting Earth, it seems they already have. Apparently they were here in the 1970′s.

    The gist is that representatives of The Culture (an advanced, post-scarcity society) arrive on Earth and try to decide what to to with us. There is a split decision on whether to save/improve us (presumably before introducing us into the galactic community) or just wiping us out to put us out of our misery. In the end they decide…

    well if you’re interested. The book is The State Of The Art by Ian M. Banks (ISBN 0-356-19669-0) or wikipedia has a slightly longer synopsis at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_State_of_the_Art

    Cheers.
    NicG.

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