JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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The pendulum is swinging back now: Climate Rap

This is a great turning point. I know this has been circulating for weeks, but if you haven’t seen this climate rap, do check it out. Good Friday night stuff.

The warmers have been pretending for so long that they are the little guys fighting Big Oil, Big Industry, and Bad Government. The ruse worked so well, that the bubble is ripe for busting. They can’t “fight” the establishment — they are the Establishment.  They have a $144 billion carbon trading scheme, a $243 billion  renewables investment annually, not to mention a UN agency, and whole Western Government Departments spinning their dogma.  What self respecting youth wants to be a useful idiot fighting for their profits?

Enjoy…


Thanks to notrickszone for the translation, and the interview with Kilez More.

My hat’s off to him. It’s a great job. Can someone ask him to sing an English version?

Kilez More
Bilderberg EP

Juli 2011

Available now. :-)

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.2/10 (13 votes cast)
The pendulum is swinging back now: Climate Rap, 9.2 out of 10 based on 13 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/63q2jgy

89 comments to The pendulum is swinging back now: Climate Rap

  • #
    Anne-Kit

    German is great for rapping! Who’d have thunk??

    This guy is only 22, and he’s been studying the Global Warming story for a few years according to the interview.

    Amazing, he gives me hope for the future of our kids!

    30

  • #
    Jaymez

    Best rapping I’ve ever heard!

    I was talking to someone today about the statistical silliness of the ‘global average temperature’ used by the IPCC. But even if it was relevant, how an increase at even their ‘disaster scenarios’ might not be a bad thing and that adaption would be a cheaper course anyway. I used Perth in Western Australia to demonstrate the point.

    The combined global land and ocean surface temperature from January-December over the entire 20th Century was 13.9 degrees C. Since 1880, the annual combined global land and ocean surface temperature has increased at a rate of 0.05 degree C per decade. In past centuries the global average temperature has been much higher and much lower, for instance during the medieval warm period (MWP) and the little ice age(LIA) respectively.

    While science has not nominated what may be THE IDEAL global average temperature, there is no doubt all life on the planet thrived better during the MWP than during the LIA.

    In Perth since records began the average daily maximum temperature in July has been 18.2C and the average daily minimum in July is 8.3C. That’s a daily variation in the depths of our winter of 9.9C.

    The average daily maximum in January since records began in Perth is 30.6C and the minimum is 17.9C. That’s a daily temperature variation at the height of summer 12.7C.

    If Perth’s climate is quite variable, and bearable, with maximum temperatures in winter and summer well above the current global average temperatures, I am sure humans can learn to cope with the IPCC disaster scenarios of 2 to 4 degrees C rise in global average temperatures, and the rate at which we climb to those levels.

    I am also sure that the cost of adapting to a warmer climate which could actually be better for the planet, will be less than the cost of reducing CO2 emissions by 80% by 2050.

    Environmental and social activists are using unproven, unjustified catastrophic climate disaster scenarios to drive their environmental and social ideologies and because people naturally have an empathy to want to ‘save the planet for our children and grand children’, it has been an easy message to sell.

    40

  • #
    Mark D.

    Very NICE!

    The youth will recognize how they have been spoon-fed this Green pablum. When they do, expect a very rapid rebound to sanity. The youth today will be paying the tax and suffering the economic hit of carbon “penance” and that will seal the fate of AGW.

    30

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    [...] From JoNova 7/15: (Regarding a new climate rap video) The warmers have been pretending for so long that they are the little guys fighting Big Oil, Big Industry, and Bad Government. The ruse worked so well, that the bubble is ripe for busting. They can’t “fight” the establishment — they are the Establishment.  They have a $144 billion carbon trading scheme, a $243 billion  renewables investment annually, not to mention a UN agency, and whole Western Government Departments spinning their dogma.  What self respecting youth wants to be a useful idiot fighting for their profits? [...]

    30

  • #
    DougS

    Great to see that, at least one young showbiz (or any other type) person, hasn’t swallowed the AGW alarmist crap.

    I hope that he’s not hoping for a spot with the unspeakable BBC though – he’s now got more chance of being struck by lightning!

    Nice tune as well!

    30

  • #
    Greg

    Nicely done, and I’m not a rap fan.

    I love the term “Climate Hugger,” so I think I’ll swipe it. :)

    30

  • #

    [...] the post: The pendulum is swinging back now: Climate Rap [...]

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  • #
    1DandyTroll

    Good decent people who do not want to pay all sorts of plant food taxes are the new Jews for the green shirts, the former brown and red shirts, to hound.

    It used to sound that if you’re not aryan enough you were an evil force trying to destroy society. Then it was, if you’re not red enough your an evil capitalist dog trying to destroy “utopia”, now it’s if you’re not green enough . . . you’re out to destroy the planet.

    The brown the red, and now the green all suffer the hubris induced narcissism because they’re virtually the same world-dominating-frakk-ups.

    20

  • #

    [...] Climate Rap from Jo Nova. [...]

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    Papaya

    1DandyTroll – green shirts is certainly thematic, but I don’t think it does enough to capture the footling, absent-mindedness of the “environmentalists”. I prefer ‘hairshirts’.

    10

  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    Mark D: #3

    The youth today will be paying the tax and suffering the economic hit of carbon “penance” …

    Very true. But they will blame us “old farts” for not stopping it in its tracks.

    I want an audit trail of all my comments here, to prove that I at least tried … ;-)

    00

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    Rereke Whakaaro

    1DandyTroll: #6

    … the hubris induced narcissism because they’re virtually the same world-dominating-frakk-ups …

    There was a time, when you could vote them out, but democracy is now no more that a store-front window that provides the illusion of participation for the masses.

    The political systems of the western world are now no more than a sham. The real power lies within a plutocracy (control by the wealthy), advised by a meritocracy (the scientists, and the more able Spin-doctors), supported by a bureaucracy (that keeps the paper moving around), that is legitimised by democracy (the talking-head, side-show the keeps the rest of the population distracted).

    In history, we have been here before. The old feudal monarchies were similar in structure, as was the early form of National Socialism in Germany, (which was actually driven by the wealthy industrialists).

    As a political system, it can only survive if one of the real ruling class can become pre-eminent (becoming the king or queen), or they step back into the shadows to allow the most able of the meritocracy, or bureaucracy, to be a figure-head puppet.

    Either way, the populace is disenfranchised and marginalised by all the power games.

    For an active case study, you only have to look at the EU, with its “government by directive”; and the actual lack of real differentiation between any of the major political parties in any of the member states, and their inability to make any real autonomous policy decisions.

    20

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    Bulldust

    Ironic is it not, that this would happen to be in German of all languages… good to see.

    I wonder if Rammstein would be interested in a skeptic song. Now that would drive home the message :)

    00

  • #
    Another Ian

    More pendulum.

    “American Electric Power has scuttled its pilot project to bury CO2 from its Mountaineer coal-burning plant in Red Haven WVa. The original projected cost, before unanticipated overruns, was $668 million. About 1/3 of the gross output from a plant would be required to capture, compress and inject the CO2 into the ground, generating an automatic 50% increase in the cost of net output, before conversion costs.”

    More at http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/15/high-costs-bury-aep%e2%80%99s-carbon-burial-plan/#more-43498

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  • #
    Raven

    Meanwhile back at the ranch ….. The red queen & the clockwork goose are running around telling people black is white and day is night, while the world slips into GFC part two , what a good feeling it is to have an economic wiz kid like Wayne looking out for us .
    New England update : Windsor not popular , Windsor speak with forked tongue , Windsor should be &$@$&? ..with a pineapple . Spent three days with friends in new England and heard not a single person speak well of Windsor , one comment of note , ” Tony should consider immigrating back to the real world ” ….. Most want an election !

    00

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    malo

    Bugger! I was hoping AGW was true. I live in Melbourne, and I was trying to avoid moving to Brissy. Now I will be paying this frigging tax for nothing,

    10

  • #

    The youth, once presented with the facts of the case, will ‘get it’. Yesterday my wife and I over dinner with our relatives discussed climate change (quoting facts all over the field) and then I pointed their oldest (who has just turned 18) to the Lord Monckton summary on here of the economic costs – his comment ‘we must be mad’. Everyone got it.

    Moral of this story – engage in discussion, present the facts and people will see the light..

    20

  • #
    Nicodemus

    I am always bemused by the claims that ‘sceptics/deniers’ are in the pay of so-called ‘Big Oil’. BP is a pretty big oil producer but is also a global manufacturer of solar panels. I would expect that BP would benefit from warming panic. Oil exploration is risky, expensive and prone to environmental problems; surely more attractive to have a product that governments subsidise or even coerce the citizens to buy, like solar panels.

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    macha

    This last 3yrs of escalated CAGW alarmism, I have realised I am a federalist. I like government acting throught shires, cities, states,territories and country. This enables me to move away from anyu collectives that want to live in under rules I do not like or agree with. The most offensive outcome of the UN, the IPCC and the current Gillard-Brown alliance, is that I have no where to run!! All this under a back-drop of ~80% nt ready to accept a carbon tax because there is insufficient evidence or confidence that the hypothesis of CAGW is real, or that the mitigation is worth the premium(pain).

    A top rap job! get it on MSM ASAP.

    00

  • #
    elsie

    I had anther look at a ‘COSMOS’ article dated 7 July, 2011.
    It is titled “Rethinking the human impact of climate change” by Pablo Suarez.

    Briefly it speaks about increasing climate change and, in particular, cyclones and rising sea levels in the South Pacific. It zeroes in on a small island called Pileni which is north of Papua New Guinea peninsula.

    I was surprised that any concern for cyclones for such a place would exist because cyclones simply do not form in very low latitudes so close to the Equator. You have to go further south to have cyclones which, of course, can travel down to sub tropical regions.

    What bothered me was the image that came with the article. It showed a cyclone ravaged tropical place with shattered palm trees and small buildings. I tracked the image down and found it was an image taken of damage caused by cyclone ‘Yasi’ in north QLD. This is no where near Pileni Island by a long shot.

    00

  • #
    Llew Jones

    The science is not settled? Well almost. Sez who?

    Our Refutation of Dessler (2010) is Accepted for Publication
    July 15th, 2011 (Roy Spencer)

    “Some of you might remember last year’s little dust-up between Andy Dessler and me over feedbacks in the climate system.”

    “Our early-2010 paper showed extensive evidence of why previous attempts to diagnose feedbacks (which determine climate sensitivity) have likely led to overestimates of how sensitive the climate system is to forcings like that from increasing CO2.”

    “The basic reason is that internal radiative forcing from natural cloud variations causes a temperature-radiation relationship in the data which gives the illusion of high climate sensitivity, even if climate sensitivity is very low.”

    “Well, our paper entitled On the Misdiagnosis of Surface Temperature Feedbacks from Variations in Earth’s Radiant Energy Balance which refutes Dessler’s claim, has just been accepted for publication. In it we show clear evidence that cloud changes DO cause a large amount of temperature variability during the satellite period of record, which then obscures the identification of temperature-causing-cloud changes (cloud feedback).”

    “Along with that evidence, we also show the large discrepancy between the satellite observations and IPCC models in their co-variations between radiation and temperature.”

    “Given the history of the IPCC gatekeepers in trying to kill journal papers that don’t agree with their politically-skewed interpretations of science (also see here, here, here, here), I hope you will forgive me holding off for on giving the name of the journal until it is actually published.”

    “And this is not over…I am now writing up what I consider to be our most convincing evidence yet that the climate system is relatively insensitive.”

    00

  • #
    MattB

    That german greeny rap boy wants to shut down live cattle exports to Indonesia and ban GM crops! Where’s the outrage?

    00

  • #
    Speedy

    Llew Jones @ 21

    Climate is not only “relatively insensitive” – it’s “bloody stubborn”! And, unlike the Greens, it is immune to taxes and bribes.

    Cheers,

    Speedy

    00

  • #
    Speedy

    “The Consensus is the Nonsensus” Love it!

    Speedy

    00

  • #
    MattB

    Has anyone noticed that NO PARTY that opposes efforts to stop climate change have an alternate policy that we should spend all the money on helping the world’s poor. That is because they don’t believe in wealth redistribution…

    Here’s a deal, if you guys can get Abbott to go to the next election with a policy to spend billions of dollars a year on feeding and housing and educating the poor of the planet I’ll vote for him.

    00

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    rjm385

    MattB @ 22

    Another sarcastic nonsensical view with nothing constructive to say… why don’t you take the volunteery euthanism option that your team support and help the planet.

    Grow up !

    Say Yes to an Election now

    00

  • #
    Binny

    MattB:@22
    I spotted that… which makes this even more significant.
    The ranks are fracturing, the end of days is upon them.

    00

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    Binny

    MattB @25
    That is because they don’t believe in wealth redistribution..

    So Matt are you acknowledging that is the real agenda behind this whole thing.

    00

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    MattB

    No no Binny – I’m just pointing out that loons on the right don’t like efforts to combat climate change as they think it is wealth redistribution in disguise. They are hardly going to support blatant wealth redistribution.

    Now if the loons on the right are correct, then Mr Austrian Rap Boy should support efforts to combat climate change as it is just a ruse to do the things he wants to be done.

    00

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    memoryvault

    MattB @ 25

    1. How exactly does one “stop” the climate from changing? It’s been doing it pretty-much non-stop for several million years.

    2. Regardless of (1) above, name one major party that DOESN’T have a stupid, pointless, ridiculous policy of some sort to “stop climate change”.

    3. How about, MattB, instead of “doing anything with the money”, we just don’t take it off the people who earned it the first place?

    00

  • #
    Bulldust

    No point in trying to debate MattB anymore… he seems to have become increasingly erratic of late. Used to be you could have a debate with the chap, bu recently he seems to have lost the plot. All tip and no iceberg (no doubt he will blame that on the warming too).

    00

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    Rodzki

    Good on Kilez More. Regardless of what his other pet causes are, it’s significant (as Binny says) that an outspoken young activist is able to discern a deceptive climate alarmism campaign when he sees it. It’s a sad reflection on our mainstream media that a German rap artist is capable of a higher level of independent thought and analysis they they are, when that is presumably what they are paid to do.

    00

  • #
    pat

    too late to save us from this one, which virtually no-one up this way even knows about. when it opened in april, i cannot recall a single mention in the MSM – too toxic:

    11 April: Qld Govt: Ecosciences Precinct opens at Boggo Road
    The $270 million Ecosciences Precinct, Australia’s first centre dedicated to solving some of the country’s biggest environmental issues, was officially opened today by Premier Anna Bligh and Queensland Senator Mark Furner.
    “Located beside the infamous old Boggo Rd gaol, the precinct is now home to over 1000 Queensland Government and CSIRO scientists, researchers and support staff,” Ms Bligh said.
    “This is the largest group of scientists and researchers working in Ecoscience ever assembled in Australia.
    “Bringing so many together at this one location creates a critical mass of scientists to respond to the challenges of our times…
    “This new facility is part of our Government’s $3.6 billion investment to make Queensland the Smart State of Australia.
    “The Ecoscience precinct is one of 39 new research institutes created under this plan, with more than 8,000 new scientists and researchers building a smarter, hi-tech economy for our State”…
    Research will focus on areas including:
    Climate Change – our atmosphere and oceans will be monitored to increase our understanding and ability to mitigate and adapt to climate change
    http://statements.cabinet.qld.gov.au/MMS/StatementDisplaySingle.aspx?id=74338

    someone told me yesterday the A/C alone cost $30m. until then, even i didn’t know what this building was, altho i had asked people around brisbane when it was under construction:

    2008: CSIRO: New Brisbane based CSIRO research hub
    “The Precinct has been designed with environmental sustainability in mind. We aim to minimise our environmental footprint by using solar energy, motion detector light controls, high efficiency air conditioning, recycled materials and water saving measures,” Dr Johnson said.
    Dr Johnson also welcomed today’s A$2 million Smart State Innovation Projects Funding grant announcement which will fund research into ways that South East Queensland can adapt to climate change…
    http://www.csiro.au/news/NewResearchHub.html

    00

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    allen mcmahon

    Bulldust@32
    You realise that ‘losing the plot’ is attributable to CAGW.

    00

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    Damian Allen

    “pat” (34),
    What an appropriate place for these CRIMINALS – “Boggo Road” JAIL.
    The place whould be recommissioned as a PRISON and the guard towers and cells rebuilt !!

    00

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    Tom

    @MattB: You hang around like a cold sore, like a naughty child [snip]. Nothing to do with science, just make sure the zombie groupthink is presented over and over and over. Attempt to win the argument (What argument? The opposite of whatever) every moment of every day. Only a simpleton does what you are doing. You prove over and over the mindless idiocy and the juvenile thrill of political power of our new (temporary) ruling class. Still, as long as the state pays your salary, you will represent the interests of the petty functionaries who sign you pay cheques, even if we – the majority who oppose the hijacking of the state by your minority – ultimately pay your salary.

    00

  • #

    I imagine it would work better if I spoke German.

    00

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  • #

    I’m from a bygone era and I distinctly remember an old Queensland politician who shall remain nameless, but his initials are Joh Bjelke Petersen.
    As vilified as he has become (and how is easy is it to pour dirt on him now that he’s no longer with us) he had some of the best one liners I have ever heard.
    In 1969 in the U.S. a splinter group was formed by some folks disenchanted with the direction The Sierra Club was taking. They formed a new group, Friends Of The Earth.
    Membership rose and outposts were formed here in Oz, and they started their eco politics up.
    Joh’s classic one liner referred to them as Friends Of The Dirt, as cool a put down as I have ever heard.
    We need more politicians like him willing to call a digging implement a spade, and Barnaby is somewhat in that same mould, and there are very few of them around, all scared to stand up for something they perceive their electorate might not like.
    Barnaby gets traction where waffling around doesn’t.
    As for the rest of us, while attempting to throw the Science back at those who support this, my opinion is that we need to really concentrate not on the Science, but what the secondary consequences will be, and what people fail to grasp is that electricity generation is one of the most important areas in all this. We need to highlight the fact that we should not so readily be abandoning perfectly good forms of generating electrical power generation, something that has brought us to where we are today, luckily, one of those developed Countries, and not to go back and join the Third World just for the ‘perceived’ sake of the environment.
    Humour is one way that will help us with this, and while this rap may not reach a huge target, at least it shows there are some people willing to make a stand, using their own area of talent, someone not scared of what the public might think of them for saying it like they do.
    Tony.

    00

  • #
    Bob Malloy

    Pat @ 34

    This was announced for Newcastle in 2010 with opening expected in 2012, well surprise surprise it was opened yesterday.

    This link featured on last nights NBN news. Thats the tv network not Kev & Julia’s black hole.

    00

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    memoryvault

    TonyfromOz @ 40

    “Don’t you worry about that”.

    JBP’s answer to the media on just about everything – used to drive them mental.

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    pat

    damian allen -
    re boggo road: was hoping someone else would suggest it..

    15 July: Collumbus Dispatch:Dan Gearino and Spencer Hunt: High costs bury AEP’s carbon plan
    A day after American Electric Power said it would halt a project to bury carbon dioxide deep beneath a coal-fired power plant in West Virginia, experts say the decision reflects a seismic change in the economics of generating electricity.
    Since AEP announced its $668 million “carbon-capture” plan in 2009, estimates of the cost of the technology have grown. Natural-gas prices also have plummeted, and Congress has been unable to agree on a system for regulating carbon dioxide…
    A new coal plant with carbon capture would cost $137 per megawatt-hour, according to the most-recent forecast from the Energy Information Administration. That is based on the estimated cost of construction and operation in 2016. The amount is more than double the cost from a gas-fired plant, which is $62…
    The company also cited difficulties in getting state regulators to approve charging customers for the costs of carbon capture. The company, which is active in 11 states, has run into these kinds of problems in Indiana, West Virginia and Virginia…
    The system was intended to capture only 110,000 tons of carbon dioxide a year, a fraction of Mountaineer’s global-warming output. The coal plant annually belches between 7.9 million tons to 9.8 million tons of carbon dioxide, according to U.S. Environmental Protection Agency data…
    http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2011/07/15/high-costs-bury-aeps-carbon-plan.html?sid=101

    00

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    David, UK

    @ Matt B: Are you completely stupid? I mean even by socialist standards? ALL politicians believe in wealth redistribution – that’s their whole life’s work: spending other people’s money.

    00

  • #

    pat at comment 43,
    This actually highlights the futility in actually believing that something like this can be achieved.
    This plant is the Mountaineer Power Plant.
    It is in fact only a medium sized power plant with a Nameplate Capacity of 1300MW. (Large scale plants average around 2000MW)
    This plant burns 3.3 million tons of coal each year and emits 9.4 million tons of CO2.
    They ‘hoped’ to capture 110,000 tons a year, and that amount of CO2 is emitted every 4 days and 6 hours.
    Tony.

    00

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    ChrisC&S

    Pat@34

    Thanks for the disheartening news. So the part of my wages that is now being sent to Qld for ‘flood recovery’ is actually supporting their Eco dreams. How dare they not use their own $270 million dollars for their own recovery before asking from others! In fact, why the hell isn’t the $3.6 billion Smart money being used for their recovery? So we’re the gooses and they are the smart ones!

    00

  • #
    Joe Lalonde

    Jo,

    It is far deeper than just climate science screwing up.
    Generalized mathematics for a generalized science has generated a great deal of confusion and miss information. Science was a consensus for a starting point for the many areas becoming unbreakable laws.
    We now have generated more fiction in science than actual solid evidence due to the time frame of science in society and many other shaping events.
    Areas such as quantum physics uses algorithms in the negative side for the theories to work. Meanwhile many events are not included such as motion and circulation of energy on flat plains. The collider is a good example of bad theory when they use molecules that completely rotate differently than planets and this gives us theories on more confused science.

    Simple measurements of speeds and motion is totally beyond current science as they show many errors in the current line of science.

    00

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    Dave

    The Carbon Cycle

    The pendulum swings against the science of “climate scientists“.

    How can they do all the modelling – then declare that now they find 1/3 of emmissions from fossil fuel is soaked up by the forrests of the world.
    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/climate-change/forests-soak-up-third-of-emissions-study-20110715-1hhl2.html
    Do they reduce the carbon Dioxide Tax on basis of this discovery, or maybe declare the oceans are now safe from pollution???

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    scott

    Theres an Election Now rally being held from Hyde Park to Martin Place last Sunday in July!
    Make sure we are all there…Put your keyboard where your mouths are!

    That is all

    00

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    TrueNews

    @MattB #24

    Here’s a deal, if you guys can get Abbott to go to the next election with a policy to spend billions of dollars a year on feeding and housing and educating the poor of the planet I’ll vote for him.

    You just changed your vote to Abbot MattB.

    What do you think the increase in foreign aid fron $4 billion to $8 Billion was about ?

    It was Bi-partisan.

    Glat to have you on our side MattB.

    I hope you are TRUE to you WORD.

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    Bush bunny

    I’ve had a birthday lunch with friends, who hate the present
    Australian government, but believe that we have to stop polluters. This is so, but what they don’t understand this
    Australian governments tax will not stop pollution just give polluters ways to compensate like those overseas by buying carbon credits. Well it seems the global economy is plunging and this might correct this, but the treasury report seems to suggest that this carbon trading tax will not work in Australia. People want a new government but there is no way this can eventuate unless there is a double dissolution.

    I am looking foreward to Bob Clarks forum in Tamworth next
    Thursday. And if you can’t attend maybe you could send your apologies via team@ashcroftproperty.com.au. Those nearer who are going to attend the venue is easy to find by the West Diggers Club in Kable Ave is the old RSL
    club.

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    Siliggy

    It seems that other rap one has a part two now. Note this is from angry beats not fasiist beast or what ever they called themselves between the four letter words.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3m9aCKDVjA
    Still think rap and music are unrelated.

    00

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    TrueNews

    @Bush bunny: #55
    “I’ve had a birthday lunch with friends, who hate the present Australian government, but believe that we have to stop polluters. This is so, but what they don’t understand this”
    .

    Firstly – Happy Birthday Bush Bunny
    .

    Secondly – The Ammunition you need to convince your freinds is:
    WHO are the ‘BIG POLLUTERS’:

    Consider.
    Why did the list of 1000 ‘BIG POLLUTERS’ suddenly, overnight, drop to a list of only 500 ‘BIG POLLUTERS’ for ‘CARBON TAX’ purposes. ?

    The answer is simple really – There aren’t enough ‘BIG POLLUTERS’.
    (Only 295 companies ‘POLLUTED’ enough to be required to report their GHG (POLLUTION) emissions in financial year 2009/10).

    Of those ’295 BIG POLLUTERS’:
    Woolworths, (Coles, Bunnings, Office Works, KMart, Target), ANZ, NAB, Westpac, CBA, Bega Cheese, Mcdonalds, Brisbane Council, various Universities, most Water Authorities and even an ‘Environmental’ Recycling Company are ALL featured in the TOP 295.

    If they had made it 1000 ‘BIG POLLUTERS’ then most Federal, State and Local Government Departments, Hospitals, Police, Fire Departments, Schools and probably even PARLIAMENT HOUSE would be ‘CARBON TAXED’ for being ‘BIG POLLUTERS’
    (The ALP won’t release the Names of the Top 500 ‘BIG POLLUTERS’ – but the information I give you is a copy of their own NGER Report for the Top 295)

    I Wonder WHY they are keeping the ‘Top 500′ SECRET!
    .

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    TrueNews

    @Siliggy:
    “Still think rap and music are unrelated.”

    Me too Siliggy
    Must admit though, the backing track had my toes tapping LOL.

    00

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    memoryvault

    Scott @ 53

    “Theres an Election Now rally being held from Hyde Park to Martin Place last Sunday in July!
    Make sure we are all there…Put your keyboard where your mouths are!”

    Thanks for the info Scott. Now, if you could tell me the actual PURPOSE of this rally – what it intends to achieve – what its stated AIM is, I’ll book a ticket right now to fly down to Sydney.

    Mind Scott, that I’m looking for VERBS – “doing” words. Something along the lines of
    “People attending this rally will leave with the information to ____________ (fill in the blank)”.
    Or “people attending this rally will be shown how to ______________(fill in the blank)”.

    If all you are looking for is a rent-a-crowd to swell numbers to “show solidarity” or some other meaningless term, you’d be better off posting over at GetUp.

    The people you are trying to appeal to are not respondents to meaningless slogans, and they are not going to attend a rally just to swell numbers for the media.

    The people you are trying to appeal to are looking for some kind of direction, some kind of plan, some kind of leadership. They also know they are not getting it from Abbott and the LIBS.

    So, what IS the plan?

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    Joe V.

    TrueNews @54
    Good point
    “You just changed your vote to Abbot MattB.
    What do you think the increase in foreign aid fron $4 billion to $8 Billion was about ?
    It was Bi-partisan.”

    Don’t want to give MattB an easy out, but foreign aid is about buying influence oversees.
    Only the NGO charities are directing funds to the real needy.

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    Joe V.

    Memoryvault@ 59

    “The people you are trying to appeal to are looking for some kind of direction, some kind of plan, some kind of leadership. They also know they are not getting it from Abbott and the LIBS.
    So, what IS the plan?

    A very good point. People with a Purpose AND a Plan.
    Now that could be in serious danger of becoming effective.

    In most countries it would already be outlawed.

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    Joe V.

    Climate Rap.

    I do like it. The perfect popular antodote to Get Up.

    Get Down, and Boogie.

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    Roy Hogue

    Has anyone noticed that NO PARTY that opposes efforts to stop climate change have an alternate policy that we should spend all the money on helping the world’s poor. That is because they don’t believe in wealth redistribution…

    MattB @27,

    It’s too bad that giving money to the world’s poor hasn’t helped them.

    If you want to make a man your slave, just give him money. If you want to make him hate you, just give him money. He can’t stop taking the money so he’s your slave. But he can’t keep his self-respect while getting a continual handout, so he’ll hate you for the very handout that sustains him. And that’s the way it works.

    If we were serious about saving the world the very first thing we would do is stop trying to save the world. But doing the job right would be putting the organization doing the job out of business. Can’t have that now, can we?

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    Okay then, let’s look a t something that could have been perceived as being a tad embarrassing.
    The new Solar Dawn Plant at Chinchilla.
    It is a Concentrating Solar Plant but having said that, there are three or four versions of this process.
    This plant uses the trough process, curved mirrors laid almost horizontally.
    At the focal point of the mirror is a pipe, and down that pipe is passed water.
    The heat boils the water directly to steam to drive the turbine, which in turn drives the generator.
    Some solar trough process uses a compound passed through the pipe. The heat makes that compound (mainly in the form of salts) molten. The molten compound then boils water to steam (etc).
    At this plant they also included the option of natural gas fired backup, on the same site. This actually means that the plant has the capability of actually being able to provide power for the full 24 hours, as whenever the compound goes less than molten, they can run up the natural gas turbines.
    This form of solar power used at this plant will see Chinchilla delivering full solar power for around five hours a day.
    My analysis for this Plant is at the following link:
    Solar Power Australia
    There is a comment attached to that Post at the bottom. That person who commented mentioned that he received an email from the plant proposers to tell him that they were restricted in the operation of that gas fired backup, so that all it was allowed to generate power for was to add an extra one hour a day to the total from the solar component. This means that the plant will be supplying power for around 6 to 7 hours a day averaged out over the year.
    With that natural gas component, here was the perfect example of a plant using a (partly) renewable process to generate power for the full 24 hours, albeit a tiny amount of power in total.
    However, there have been restrictions placed on that plant so that it cannot use that facility to provide that 24/7/365 power.
    Why is that?
    Well, you see, natural gas also emits CO2 at the rate of 122 pounds per mcf (1000cu ft) of natural gas being burned.
    So, here’s where the embarrassment might have kicked in.
    Suppose this ‘wonderful’ new plant actually did supply its power for the full 24 hours of every day, by utilising the backup when the solar went off the boil.
    Well, you see, that would have then placed this Plant into the Top 500 CO2 emitters, Julia’s ‘derdy polluders’.
    We couldn’t have that as part of a ‘Clean Energy Future’ now, could we?
    Tony.

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    pattoh

    Joe V @ 62

    How about “Stand Up” ( for your rights & your National Sovereignty in it face of Agenda 21 & the UN)

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    Another Ian

    Jo, O/T but FYI

    “Bad Weather Page
    Posted on July 16, 2011 by stevengoddard
    A reminder to send this link to everyone and everywhere :

    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/bad-weather/

    I have been accumulating hundreds of historical news articles which show that extreme weather was worse when CO2 was lower.

    The global warming story has gone flat, so the whole scam now rides on them convincing people of historical weather misinformation, sea level misinformation, drought misinformation, coral reef misinformation, ocean pH misinformation, ice sheet misinformation, and Arctic sea ice extent during two weeks in September.

    Thanks to all the readers who are contributing to this knowledge base!”

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    Ian Hill

    TonyfromOz @ 64.

    A thought only just occurred to me reading your words. If the end result of these constructions made from mirrors using sunlight to heat up water or compounds is to produce steam to make electricity, then surely that steam ends up in the atmosphere. So a “greenhouse gas” is still a by-product, even if CO2 is not. Therefore, is this energy any “cleaner”?

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    memoryvault

    Ian Hill @ 67

    I left your query for a while since it was directed to Tony, but since he is apparently not around at the moment, the answer is, “No – the steam doesn’t end up in the atmosphere”.

    Modern steam turbines are closed systems. Water is drawn from a container called the “steam drum”, heated up to steam which collects back in the steam drum, runs from there through the turbine where it loses much of its energy spinning the generator, then is fed back to what is called a “condensate drum”.

    Here the steam is condensed back to water, then the water is run through a process to remove any accumulated air, and finally returned to the steam drum ready to go through the whole process once more.

    There are two main reasons for this. First, obviously, it takes a lot less energy to heat very hot water back to steam than to turn room temperature water into steam.

    Second, the internals of modern boilers and turbines and all the other equipment involved are very susceptible to damage from various impurities in the steam. For instance, traces of chlorine in the water turns steam at 95 atmospheres into something akin to a plasma cutting torch when it comes into contact with stainless steel.

    It is quite an expensive process to bring water up to the required standard of “boiler feed water” so as much as possible of it is continuously recycled.

    Incidentally, this exposes one of the favourite lies of the greenies in relation to steam-fired power stations – that they use “millions of gallons of water”. Truth is, it’s the same water going around and around day after day.

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    mv
    thanks for that.
    Way back when I started Posting and looking for ways to explain this in a manner that would ‘seem’ interesting and informative, and to attempt to explain the technicalities in a manner that could be understood by the average person with no real background, I wanted to explain how coal fired power was actually accomplished, because (and seriously, people have actually said this to me) people could not figure how a lump of coal could produce electricity.
    As part of that original Series in mid 2008, I included this Post to explain just that.
    I could just link to the diagram at:
    http://papundits.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/coal-fired-power-plant1.jpg
    However, the ‘legend’ for that image is not part of the image, so you need to see the whole Post for the explanation.
    Kyoto – A Perspective (Part 11)
    The actual driving mechanism for the generator itself is a three stage turbine, and an image for an example is at this link, and this is just a small section of the turbine:
    http://papundits.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/dampfturbine_laeufer01.jpg
    As you can see from the schematic, it shows that 3 stage turbine.
    The high pressure high temperature steam goes to stage 1 where it drives that. Some of the superheated steam then goes back to the boiler, and some to drive stage 2.
    At stage 2 again some steam goes back to the boiler, and some to stage 3. At stage 3, some again goes back to the boiler, and the remainder to the cooling ponds under those big fat stacks, where it is again returned to the boilers.
    So, it is indeed a closed loop system.
    Incidentally, when the media first latched on to this coal fired power plants emitting, er, dangerous greenhouse gases, the only emotive images they had to actually show this were indeed of those big fat stacks with the, er, CO2 pollution pouring out the top in the form of huge white clouds of the stuff.
    It always made me smile that they were showing harmless old steam.
    Tony.

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    memoryvault

    Tony @ 70

    Hi Tony – wasn’t trying to steal your thunder – you’ve been doing an excellent job so far. I’ve had a niggling suspicion for some time now, and Ian’s query at 67 confirms it, that when it comes to coal-fired power stations an awful lot of people have a mental image of big, sweaty men shoveling coal into an open furnace to drive something akin to the Hogwort’s Express.

    I hope at least some people take the time to follow your links. Apart from a little confusion as to how the turbine reacts to varying loads, it is an excellent primer.

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    thanks memoryvault,
    but really, there’s no thunder to steal.
    What I’ve found, especially in the last few months is that people really want to know things like this.
    Oddly, Peter Lang, in a comment at another thread here mentioned something I haven’t really thought about.
    The ACTUAL measuring of those CO2 emissions.
    All I have ever used is the average multiplier of 2.86 tons of CO2 for every ton of coal burned, because that is the only real reference I could find.
    But as to actual measurements, I can’t figure out how they could actually do that with any degree of accuracy.
    What you need to realise here is the scale required.
    If an average large scale plant burns 6.5 million tons of coal a year, that equates to one ton every four and a half seconds, and using that average multiplier, that comes to a CO2 emission of one ton every second and a half.
    Difficult to actually measure that for anything let alone for a specific gas coming out of the stack (those tall thin ones that is).
    Tony.

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    Ian Hill

    Thanks to both memoryvault and Tony. I can now put that one away! :)

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    BobC

    TonyfromOz:

    You might find This Company’s product interesting. They make a sensor that can tell in great detail exactly what chemical reactions are going on in the coal firebox itself. This kind of information allows plants to fine-tune the combustion process to make it significantly more efficient and reduce unwanted chemical products produced in the fire. This doesn’t actually measure the stack gasses, but allows much more accurate knowledge of the specific multipliers for that firebox which allows accurate calculation of compustion products.

    I’ve done some work for this company and can say that the product is a technological tour-de-force which does exactly what they claim. It’s probably the most cost effective “pollution control” a power plant can put in.

    Stuff like this is why I can’t see anything but heat waves coming from our local coal power station stacks. Twenty years ago, you could still see smoke.

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    memoryvault

    Tony @ 72

    Rough as it is, I think we are going to have to use the chemical multiplier method of calculating CO2. After all, these places have highly accurate figures regarding actual consumption – it’s something that they have to pay for.

    The mind begins to boggle at the bureaucratic and paper nightmare of measuring actual quantities of CO2 going up the stack. There would have to be some sort of analyser/measuring device taking constant readings, which would have to be filed, and being for tax purposes, kept for seven years. The measuring device – again being part of a taxation system would have to be re-calibrated and certified at regular intervals. There would have to be department to audit all these things, with inspectors . . . . .

    Arrrgh!!

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    memoryvault at comment 75,
    it sort of reminds me of the ALP.
    “Hey, that’s a good idea.”
    Now, let’s set up a committee of investigation, with a view to sending it to a committee for producing a green paper, with a view to sending it to a committee for producing a white paper, with a view to setting up a Caucus committee to discuss the white paper, with a view to sending it to a Parliamentary Committee to propose the legislation, then sending it back to a Caucus committee, then introducing to the House for a discussion committee, with a view to forwarding it to the Senate for a Senate investigative committee.
    Now, where’s those Union bosses waiting for a safe seat to parachute into that we need for this?
    Sort of like the old lawyer’s adage.
    Don’t ask the question unless you already know the answer.
    As someone said of all this CO2 Tax.
    The only winner is bureaucracy.
    Tony.

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    Siliggy

    TrueNews:
    July 16th, 2011 at 11:58 pm
    @Siliggy:
    “Still think rap and music are unrelated.”

    Me too Siliggy
    Must admit though, the backing track had my toes tapping LOL.

    See what you think of this movie trailer but before you do remember these immortal words:

    According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event”. “Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,” he said.

    Link and the similar scare stories from other parts of the world.

    ATTACK OF LA NINA (THE BITCH IS BACK!).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xV_N5nLEs0

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    Siliggy

    Maybe some will prefer this music:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TRhmdfJuyM
    How about those old TV shows?:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFcuuErdY-A
    If you like folky country tunes:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnkCa5-Zc8Q

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    observa

    Beware the counter-attack of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

    We’ve seen the ugly grooming of kiddies like this before and welcome to their new- Brownskirts!
    Remember children- “Arbeit Macht Frei” except when your groomers bung on the

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    observa

    …carbon taxes.

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    Roy Hogue

    memoryvault @75,

    Here they would just call this “job creation” and be done with it. It’s that easy to turn a nightmare into a benefit.

    The mind begins to boggle at the bureaucratic and paper nightmare of measuring actual quantities of CO2 going up the stack. There would have to be some sort of analyser/measuring device taking constant readings, which would have to be filed, and being for tax purposes, kept for seven years. The measuring device – again being part of a taxation system would have to be re-calibrated and certified at regular intervals. There would have to be department to audit all these things, with inspectors . . . . .

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    observa

    Well Roy the trouble is all the denialists and skeptics out there just can’t comprehend how carbon taxes create all those Green jobs.

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    Joe V

    On Green employment opportunities.

    Are there any statistics from any operating wind farms on just how many dead birds are collected daily ? :-)

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    Roy Hogue

    observa @82,

    Our problem is that we do understand — only too well! ;-)

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    It looks like Australia is mobilising against it’s Carbon Tax,
    with the:
    “Convoy of no confidence”.
    http://justgroundsonline.com/events/convoy-of-no-confidence-in

    SPREAD THE WORD NOW

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    Doug Proctor

    According to Hansen, Gore, Suzuki and Mann, today we are, as a planet, warmer than the MWP. Perhaps also the Roman Warm Period or even the Minoan. But I don’t see vineyards in lower Britain, nor do I see colonists shipping out from Denmark for Iceland and Greenland, where, with medieval farming practices and tools, they are planning to build a new Norse civilization. L’Aux aux Meadows, the Viking settlement in northern Newfoundland, doesn’t seem very attractive to Europeans or anyone with non-Inuit clothing during the non-summer seasons, either.

    Is the climate today really warmer than the MWP? The North American Indians, Mayan, Anazazi faced severe droughts around the MWP. Deserts marched up from Arizona to northwestern Alberta, Canada (Wood Buffalo National Park has snakes surrounded by non-survivable, without caves to retreat to, muskeg environments now. The Saskatchewan Sand Hills have horned toads etc. from Arizona, with two thousand miles of non-habitable prairies now the south.) From Mexico to the Arctic, in North America, the MWP appears to have been much warmer then than now.

    For all we hear, I still am unsure if the MWP was as “cold” as the IPCC eta l say. Perhaps “colder” is again a type of “warmer” in the new climatic lexicon.

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    Joe V.

    Doug @ # 86
    It might be as well to steer clear of the vineyards in Britain.

    There were reputedly some 416 vineyards in England in 2009, covering some 2,732 acres.
    English vineyards flourishing

    There is evidence of viticulture since the Middle Ages right up until the end of WW1.
    It resumed c. 1952 and enjoyed some expansion through the 60s , 70s & 80s a couple of these later established examples being eg.
    Nyetimber Since 1988
    & Denbies of Dorking since 1986

    It probably reached its peak in the Nineties and has been level or dropped slightly since then.

    Here is a Short account.

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    [...] on climate change (apd) to that of Galileo. (JoNova rightly observed that official science is the establishment.) Given that peculiar instance of absurdity he, too, might care to read of genuine scientific [...]

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