JoNova

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Copenhagen, a $30 billion dollar “success”?

A funny thing happened this week. Humanity did a low-orbit bypass of a totalitarian world government, and pulled away, but only a few noticed the near miss.

Christopher Monckton has already spoken about the draft treaty with it’s message of setting up a new form of global governance, but without any mention of voting. He spoke again yesterday to Alex Jones and pointed out that in a sense Copenhagen succeeded, despite what everyone is saying. After all, it was never really about saving the environment was it? It was about setting up a world government, and they got the odd $30 billion dollars. Not bad for a failure.

“That is the one thing that they are definitely going to succeed in doing here and they will announce that as a victory in itself, and they will be right because that is the one and only single aim of this entire global warming conference, to establish the mechanism, the structure, and above all the funding for a world government.” the British politician, business consultant, policy adviser exclusively told the Alex Jones show yesterday”

“They are going to take from the western countries the very large financial resources required to do that.” Monckton said, adding “They will disguise it by saying they are setting up a $100 billion fund for adaptation to climate change in third world countries, but actually, this money will almost all be gobbled up by the international bureaucracy.”

“The first thing they will do, and the one thing I think they were always going to succeed in doing at this conference is to agree to establish what will be delicately called ‘the institutional framework’. Now that is a code word for world government.”

Big-Government grows one law at a time

When I talk to people about the insidious reach of big government one example I’ve been using lately is that of The Netherlands. In the name of “carbon-pollution” the government of the Netherlands wants to have a GPS in every car in order to charge people for their CO2 emissions. Each GPS will track where and when every car moves, radio the data in and an audit office will calculate CO2 emissions based on kilometers driven and the car model. They will also know exactly where people go and how long they stay there for, 24 hours a day. [Source]

But there is a better more efficient system for taxing carbon emissions, and with the exquisite sensitivity of being directly connected to the exact amount emitted, Governments could just tax… fuel (and it’s not like they haven’t thought of that already).

There is no need for major audits, amassed records, or an invasion of privacy. Plus it’s virtually impossible to cheat. In many ways the GPS solution would be worse for the environment. It would let a poorly maintained car get away with increased emissions without an extra penalty because they would be charged for the average emissions for that car model. Likewise there wouldn’t be as much incentive to pump up your tyres and tune that motor, because if your car was better than average, you don’t save much money, even though you save emissions. It’s too bizarre for words. Yet apparently other state departments (like Oregon) have considered the same thing.

The amount of data that would “need” to be maintained and managed is boggling. And the security would be a headache and a half. (Just think how handy it would be to track all your competitors car movements, or your ex-wife’s, or your employees. Just think how many people would like to track you too? Hackers would come, and then they’d know where you went too…)

Is there any limit to how large and powerful the reach of any government aims to be?

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59 comments to Copenhagen, a $30 billion dollar “success”?

  • #
    CyberForester

    Just towed my son’s car back from the restorers. It was on a trailer and the engine wasn’t running. I suppose the two vehicle was emitting more CO2 because it was working harder.

    And a least when you travel through a tunnel the GPS isn’t going to be able to be intercepted. I wonder if cars travelling on a train through the Chunnel will pay and whether there will be any double dipping by collecting fees from the operators of the train. (That would never happen!)


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    MikeO

    Wonder how many nano seconds it would take for someone to defeat the gps scheme. My car does have such a device for tracking it. I think it is a crazy threat.


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    John Concannon

    MikeO,
    The problem is the mentality behind it. This example may seem far fetched at first glance but we know that “control” is the mainstay of the social-marxist view.
    Already European governments are handling completely in opposition to their own subjects and making sure that their subjects don’t get any say in the matter (e.g. who the hell is Gordon Brown representing?).

    The real battle for freedom is ony just beginning.


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    [...] The chilling cost of climate catastrophism NZ climate science had a great article last year on the chilling cost of climate catastrophism. Now post Carbonhagen its good to look at the issue again where over 20,000 green bureacrats wined and dined themselves through hundreds of millions of our taxes and created the carbon footprint of a small country. Joanne Nova also talks about the chilling cost of climate catastrophism [...]


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  • #
    Dave Peters

    You can say goodbye to all those lovely old Classic and Veteran cars too…. They have Positive Earth electric systems and no electronic connectivity, so therefore they can’t be connected to a GPS Sat Nav system, ergo..will not be allowed on the roads.
    As Mr John Concannon says above, the battle for freedom is just beginning and do not be surprised how vicious it is going to be!


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    Gregoryno6

    Well I don’t even own a car! Where are they going to stick my GPS?
    And please, no references to that episode of South Park.


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  • #

    Yes, it is all about the money. Unfortunately for the ecofacists the gravy train is about out of gas. Politicians may be evil but they are not stupid. As the investigation continues into climategate the Republicans are already smelling blood.The state congress in Pennsylvania (Republican controlled) has already told them that if they try and whitewash their investigation of Mike Mann the state will cut off their money. Mann will be sacrificed. I have no doubt that he will name names. Mann taught Phil jones the “trick” on how to “hide the decline.” The temperature data has been artificially adjusted to show lower temperatures in the past and recent temperatures as unusually warm. The Wegman report stated that bristlecone pine trees are unreliable for use as a temperature proxy. Unreliable tree ring data based on statistical fraud and fraudulently altered temperature data could never “match.” Thus, the necessity of the trick. Mann taught them the trick and you don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce that Mann was speaking from experience. Since Mann used the trick to hide the decline in U.S. temperature data the U.S. data is as unreliable as the CRU data. It isn’t a coincidence that the two data sets are in substantial agreement. The two sources of satellite data, UAH at Huntsville, Alabama and RSS in Santa Rosa, California measure the movement of oxygen molecules and calibrate that information against the land based temperatures to determine the actual temperature. If the CRU and GISS/NOAA data sets are corrupt and unreliable then so is the satellite data. In other words, there is nor reliable source to determine temperatures and yet the left is willing to sacrifice the world’s economy on Gaia’s alter. When rural sites are used exclusively the “warming” disappears. Every instance of the examination of the raw data, usually obtained by means other than a release by the source, shows their is no global warming! This is true of the Australian, New Zealand and now the Russian data. No wonder Mann and Hansen are loathe to release their raw data. I have never been a conspiracy theory buff (I think Oswald acted alone) but the scope of this is mind boggling. There is a cabal of 60 or so climate criminals passing themselves off as legitimate scientists who have pulled off this conspiracy. They are so convinced of the validity of their theory that they are willing to play situation ethics on a scale that is tantamount to playing Russian roulette with the worlds economy with only one bullet missing from the revolver. I am sick of hearing from the left that even if global warming isn’t real it is still “good for the environment.” Just because I want to send my kids to college does not justify my robbing a bank yet these loons want us all to live in the stone age to appease Gaia! I like the conveniences of modern life, especially as I age.

    I may not be a prophet or a political insider but I have no doubt that Grand juries will be handing up indictments next year. The U.S. Department of Energy has already told EVERY one of its employees not to destroy information related to climategate. The DOE gave a lot of taxpayer’s money to these clowns and money leaves a trail. Since Mann has already thrown Phil Jones under the bus I am willing to bet five dollars to a hole in a donut that Jones is going to turn states evidence because if he doesn’t Mann or somebody else will. Jones career is over so he has nothing to lose. Seeing how the emails showed that Briffa had a struggle with his conscience he will probably roll over if Jones or Mann don’t. Sadly, the biggest victim besides the taxpayers and scientific integrity will be the environment. The mainstream media leans left and may resist but they will be forced by the blogosphere to finally report what the true mission of the environmental movement is: a communist trojan horse to be utilized to form a one world socialist government by controlling the world’s energy supply and any company or person who uses energy. In other word, everything and everybody on the planet. The second amendment to the U.S. constitution, as recently affirmed by the Supreme Court, states that Americans have the right to bear arms. Firearms in the United States number over 192,000,000. As I said, politicians may be evil but they are not stupid!

    Well, its time to go to the russian River Brewing Company (it is 2:00 PM PST) and enjoy the number one rated beer on the planet, Pliney the Elder. if any of you from the land down under come to California drop me an email and I’ll take you to the Russian River Brewing Company and you won’t have to worry about your carbon footprint, either!


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    Mark Stevens

    Take a step back. Look at the demeanour of the global ‘saviours’in copenhagen. Did these shysters antics resemble that of leaders who are faced with manmade devastation as the clock ticks down? was there a genuine urgency to save man from himself?…AS IF.
    Banki money quoted in the LA times as saying that the ` framework` will be imposed and policed. greenpis activists noting that the “political” model needs to be changed. murderous scum such as muagabbe pointing the bone (probably previously attached to some hapless MDC supporter)at the evil belching and burping capitalist west. the likes of aussie Ian fry,who according to his Queanbeyan neighbour is `really high up in climate change`, scriking crocodile tears re the prophetcised inundation of(his employer) Tuvalu. “I woke up crying this morning” boo bloody hoo, this hired low life has yet to visit this most visceral island nation. The Chinese playing the game dreamt up by the useful idiots of the `democratic` left, yet refusing on the grounds of security and sovereignty to allow any verification of their `carbon` emissions`. The outstretched hand attached to the cultivated mendicant mentality of the `LDC`s`, go figure.. Our very own prime onanast minister with all the charm of dr joeseph Goebbels happy to throw the Australian nation as fodder for his beloved global grabbing united nations.seditious Bast*rd. Unfortunately there is gonna be tears before bedtime. Whatever it takes, no yoke will restrain the resistance of free people.Cessation from the UN, now. Carbon dioxide is the guilty party ( the arch duke ferdinand? )Yeah, Right!


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  • #
    Mark

    Eddy #7

    I like your style, mate!

    Pity I’m such a terrible traveller, particularly where ‘planes are concerned or I’d take you up on your offer.

    Happy Christmas to you and yours.


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  • #

    Great post Eddy – thankyou


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    Steve

    I’ll have to disagree Eddy, the best beer in the world comes from Dunedin, New Zealand. The Emmerson’s Pilsner.

    Although I haven’t tried a “Pliney the Elder” :)


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    DennisA

    “Smart” electricity meters are to be introduced in the UK at a projected cost of £8 billion, (double that for the final bill as always) They will be able to control your useage remotely. Remember “The Outer Limits?” Do not adjust your TV set, we are controlling it.


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    Albert

    http://ec.europa.eu/environment/climat/pressbckgnd.htm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8376009.stm Climate change help for the poor ‘has not materialised’

    The E.U. Bonn Agreement of 2001 had the legislation written in such a way that the money paid into the funds couldn’t be traced.
    The same will probably happen here, the PM of Tuvalu, the Maldives and leaders of some African countries will be waiting for their cheques and countries that are forced to contribute will demand to know where their money went.
    History will repeat itself and the greater sums of money will be absorbed or disappear just as fast.


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  • #
    Mark

    Whooee!!!

    Just watching Fox News’ Global Warming special. Will be repeated on Thursday (Oz time) I believe. This won’t do the “warmista” any good at all.

    Both Macs are there, both coming across well, McKitrick especially. Patrick Michaels also very convincing. Oh God, there’s Moonbat stating the usual apocalyptic bilge about retreating glaciers and melting ice-caps. For God’s sake, doesn’t he ever look at the data?

    Also featured was the lizard Maurice Strong, now living in Beijing of all places. Pity they didn’t ask him about when he stated that the developed economies had to be destroyed in order to save the rest of the world.

    Not in any of our media: Apparently, US Senator Inhofe went to Copenhagen, laid out the whole litany of lies about the CRU and then said that any undertaking given by Obama would be “dead on arrival” back in the US.

    A “must” view.


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  • #
    SandyRham

    Dr Richard North is calling out Pachauri.
    http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2009/12/its-all-lies.html
    The more the blogosphere report this the more the pressure on Pachauri to lawyer up… but that enables legal disclosure of his nefarious dealings.
    This may be an opportunity to show that not even someone as ‘in’ with the power-brokers as Pachauri is above the scrutiny of the ‘net?
    Tranzi-roast anyone? :D :D


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  • #
    RES

    ” The bigger the government, the smaller the people ”

    I dont know who said this, but it strikes a chord; yes?

    To all present, may you and yours have a merry and delightful christmas.


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    kuhnkat

    Dave Peters,

    “You can say goodbye to all those lovely old Classic and Veteran cars too…. They have Positive Earth electric systems and no electronic connectivity, so therefore they can’t be connected to a GPS Sat Nav system, ergo..will not be allowed on the roads.”

    I used to own a 1965 MGB. Twin 6 volt positive earth battery system. I ended up with a combination Cassette Stereo/CB system 12 volt negative earth, why I don’t remember.

    It worked just fine in the car. You simply insulate the complete device from the vehicle and run power and earth leads. Be careful with the antenna too!! It was later transferred to a 1967 Sunbeam Tiger II. But that is a much more interesting story!!


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  • #
    Aqua Fyre

    Lord Monckton is right.

    The structure for One World Government is being put into place, one law at a time.

    No doubt some posters here will rather I don’t mention the Bible.

    But the fact of the matter is that the Bible speaks of a World Government with one false religion at its core.

    So, I am not surprised by this coming vision.

    Take a look at the book of Daniel and Revelations.

    Truly, we are living in the end days.

    Aqua Fyre


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  • #
    MattB

    What’s the false religion?


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    Baa Humbug

    The following is from EUReferendum.

    In 2004, it was less than $300 million. But in 2005, the trade really started to soar, ending the year with $10.8 billion-worth of transactions. A year later, in 2006, the “carbon” market had grown to $31 billion. In 2007, again it more than doubled its turnover, to $64 billion. Last year, it did it again, reaching a colossal $126 billion. By 2020, some estimates suggest the annual value will reach $2 trillion.

    Read the rest here


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  • #
    Mark Stevens

    I`d take a stab at the greens, mattyb.


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  • #
    Steve

    “What’s the false religion?”

    Well if you were to ask Dawkins; they all are.


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  • #
    Richard S Courtney

    Steve:

    You say:

    “What’s the false religion?”
    Well if you were to ask Dawkins; they all are.

    And, of course, that is the problem with comments of scientists when they discuss subjects other than their specialism.

    Tree-rings and climatologists come to mind, too.

    Richard


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  • #
    Brian G Valentine

    “Just think how handy it would be to track your ex-wife’s car movements …

    I wouldn’t do it, but she would accuse me of it anyway


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    Mattb

    Seriouslu how do I cop a “dislike” thumb for just wondering what the false religion was?


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    Brian G Valentine

    I hope you won’t hold a grudge against me for saying this, Matt, but the negative evaluation may be a “Pavlovian response” to some other things you have written on the web site?

    THAT’S JUST SPECULATION, there are likely to be far more plausible explanations for it.


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  • #

    Hey! I was thinking about you guys while I was quaffiing down a couple of Pliney the Elder double IPA beers yesterday. Thanks Mark and Twawki for your kind words. Steve, I will have to try the Emmersons’s Pilsner. Although Pliney is a double IPA and Emmerson is a pilsner variety truly is the spice of life! Although I usually disagree with MattB he does have a point, he shouldn’t receive a thumbs down just for asking a question. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and I am assuming that he is being sincere. After all, we want to keep the moral high ground lest we descend to the level of the climate criminals. For an interesting take on just how far these guys were willing to go to corrupt the peer review process see http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/42323/501200.html If these criminals were willing to go to such lengths to impede the truth in the peer reviewed literature does anyone doubt what they were willing to do to keep the taxpayer funded gravy train rolling along?

    Merry Christmas to everyone!


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  • #

    Mark #14 wrote:

    Just watching Fox News’ Global Warming special. Will be repeated on Thursday
    [...]
    A “must” view

    It’s actually available on YouTube:

    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqi7fxERiqk
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnCLQIYNYgo
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UisVhZHouq4
    Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Pj6uWTgXM
    Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWYuZs6Idb8
    Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BTS3K9DFy0

    And while I’m here, Canada’s National Post has a two part series on Climategate that is well worth reading:

    A 2,000-page epic of science and skepticism

    http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=78aa4157-da68-4596-859a-a7e49a6207ae&p=1

    (Part 2:)

    Trouble over tree rings

    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2365992


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    Baa Humbug

    Re: False religion. I think Michael Crichton put it best in his 2003 speech to the Commonwealth Club San Francisco.
    Here are some extracts.

    “certain human social structures always reappear. They can’t be eliminated from society. One of those structures is religion”.

    “Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it’s a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.
    There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe”.

    Of Jurassic Park and The Andromeda Strain fame


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  • #

    “What’s the false religion?”

    In as much as all religions are founded on faith (belief without evidence or even in face of evidence to the contrary), they are all false. Religions do not require proof nor are they capable of being proved. Because of this, they are incapable of being corrected and, as a consequence, do not and cannot constitute Knowledge of what actually is. Even if they accidentally happen to be right in one or more aspects, they cannot be used as a reliable guide to action. All actions are both “consistent” and “inconsistent” with them because they have no connection to reality other than fantasy, whim, wish, hope, feelings, and arbitrary dictates.


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  • #
    Baa Humbug

    Hi Lionell

    Are you familiar with Crichton? I just spent couple of hours reading his speeches etc, I think you may be interested in his thoughts


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  • #
    user07

    The Fox News Special on Global Warming can be seen on Youtube by following this link, http://climateaudit.org/2009/12/20/fox-news-9-p-m/
    Well worth a look.


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  • #

    Baa Humbug,

    Yes. I have read his published speeches several times. I find them mostly dead on. I have a few minor and almost irrelevant quibbles with what he says. The quibbles are more likely from a difference in style than in substance. I would highly recommend reading his speeches.


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    Mark Stevens

    Mattyb sez

    Seriouslu how do I cop a “dislike” thumb for just wondering what the false religion was?

    Well, matty. it`s like this. there are no stupid questions. just intellectually challenged people. when your hungry, ring the bell… lol!


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    Mark Stevens

    It seems that the IPCC`s Dr Pachauri (fellow; University of Thomas the tank engine) has more pies than fingers to plunge in them. From London`s Daily Telegraph

    The original power base from which Dr Pachauri has built up his worldwide network of influence over the past decade is the Delhi-based Tata Energy Research Institute, of which he became director in 1981 and director-general in 2001. Now renamed The Energy Research Institute, TERI was set up in 1974 by India’s largest privately-owned business empire, the Tata Group…

    Initially, when Dr Pachauri took over the running of TERI in the 1980s, his interests centred on the oil and coal industries… However, since Pachauri became a vice-chairman of the IPCC in 1997, TERI has vastly expanded its interest in every kind of renewable or sustainable technology, in many of which the various divisions of the Tata Group have also become heavily involved, such as its project to invest $1.5 billion (£930 million) in vast wind farms…

    Even odder is the role of TERI’s Washington-based North American offshoot, a non-profit organisation, of which Dr Pachauri is president. Conveniently sited on Pennsylvania Avenue, midway between the White House and the Capitol, this body unashamedly sets out its stall as a lobbying organisation, to “sensitise decision-makers in North America to developing countries’ concerns about energy and the environment”.

    TERI-NA is funded by a galaxy of official and corporate sponsors, including four branches of the UN bureaucracy; four US government agencies; oil giants such as Amoco; two of the leading US defence contractors; Monsanto, the world’s largest GM producer; the WWF (the environmentalist campaigning group which derives much of its own funding from the EU) and two world leaders in the international ‘carbon market’, between them managing more than $1 trillion (£620 billion) worth of assets…

    But this is peanuts compared to the numerous other posts to which Dr Pachauri has been appointed in the years since the UN chose him to become the world’s top ‘climate-change official’… In 2008 he was made an adviser on renewable and sustainable energy to the Credit Suisse bank and the Rockefeller Foundation. He joined the board of the Nordic Glitnir Bank, as it launched its Sustainable Future Fund, looking to raise funding of £4 billion. He became chairman of the Indochina Sustainable Infrastructure Fund, whose CEO was confident it could soon raise £100 billion…

    The list of posts now held by Dr Pachauri as a result of his new-found world status goes on and on. He has become head of Yale University’s Climate and Energy Institute, which enjoys millions of dollars of US state and corporate funding. He is on the climate change advisory board of Deutsche Bank…

    One subject the talkative Dr Pachauri remains silent on, however, is how much money he is paid for all these important posts, which must run into millions of dollars. Not one of the bodies for which he works publishes his salary or fees, and this notably includes the UN, which refuses to reveal how much we all pay him as one of its most senior officials.

    To wit…

    Australian Prime Minister Mr. Kevin Rudd announced $1 million contribution to The Energy and Resources Institute (TERI) for the project between CSIRO and TERI, aiming to develop a zero emissions solar cooling system for use in remote rural communities in un-electrified areas…. Reciprocating to the Australian premier…, Dr R K Pachauri, Director General TERI, and Chair Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change (IPCC), said “Our aim is to broaden this interaction over the coming years…”

    Day after day this this vile weave unravels before our eyes.
    these seditious self serving truth molesting bast#rds must be brought to book.
    Viri sunt viri


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    Dave peters

    Kuhnkat said:-

    Dave Peters,

    “You can say goodbye to all those lovely old Classic and Veteran cars too…. They have Positive Earth electric systems and no electronic connectivity, so therefore they can’t be connected to a GPS Sat Nav system, ergo..will not be allowed on the roads.”

    I used to own a 1965 MGB. Twin 6 volt positive earth battery system. I ended up with a combination Cassette Stereo/CB system 12 volt negative earth, why I don’t remember.

    It worked just fine in the car. You simply insulate the complete device from the vehicle and run power and earth leads. Be careful with the antenna too!! It was later transferred to a 1967 Sunbeam Tiger II. But that is a much more interesting story!!

    Yes, have done that before too. My XK had similar twin 6volt system. However, I expect a GPS setup will require electronic gadgetry that collects & records where the car has been and transmits in regular bursts or perhaps at the end of a journey or when ever passing a roadside collector beacon. I would not think that a modern system would permit the sort of DIY attaching as of old. The powers-that-be would suspect me of trying to bypass my taxes. (as if!!) :<)


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    Brian G Valentine

    Pachauri’s advice, however, is not “zero emissions;” is is the sewer gas of a septic tank


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    Mark D.

    The GPS tracking has been mentioned by a Minnesota US representative James Oberstar (another entrenched Lefty that hasn’t met a tax he didn’t like). He is influential to the extent that he chairs the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.

    Even though I DON’T support the idea of any added “carbon tax”, It is also obvious that the Carbon Tax could be much more simply assessed at the fuel pump. The system for collecting at the pump is already in place and works for any vehicle.

    A GPS in every vehicle offers all kinds of nefarious advantages for the Big Brother politicians of the world. Once again, the real motive for such an idea should raise red flags!

    Gasp!


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    Roy Hogue

    Politicians may be evil but they are not stupid.

    Eddy,

    Probably true for some. But Harry Reid is taking an awful chance in pushing his healthcare bill then relying on being able to spend more money than his opponent to keep his seat in the senate. Nevadans think otherwise and it’s likely that Reid will lose to his Republican opponent.

    This guy doesn’t seem very smart to me.

    I like your post! For sure a lot of people are running scared after climategate and Jokenhaven.


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    Mark D.

    Well, its time to go to the russian River Brewing Company (it is 2:00 PM PST) and enjoy the number one rated beer on the planet, Pliney the Elder. if any of you from the land down under come to California drop me an email and I’ll take you to the Russian River Brewing Company and you won’t have to worry about your carbon footprint, either!

    Eddy my friend, You must know that making delivering and consuming beer has perhaps the worst carbon footprint per cubic volume of nearly anything produced by man? Get your priorities straight!

    (when can we meet for a few pints?) :)


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    Aqua Fyre

    Mattb said:

    Seriously how do I cop a “dislike” thumb for just wondering what the false religion was?

    I don’t know Matt.

    Maybe your just p*ssing God off. LOL…

    Ps

    Matt, I have a question for you me olde china.

    I’m curious to know what a skeptic atheist says when a dog bites him on the arse.

    A. Nothing.

    Because as an atheist you don’t believe that the doG exists.

    or…B.

    You swear your head off because that hole in your arse is proof positive that doG exists.

    Before you answer, remember, the dog is behind you, so you have no direct visible proof of its existence : other than its teethmarks..


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    MattB

    Is it meant to be a dyslexic sceptical atheist?

    I would yell, but until I saw the dog I’d have to assume it was any of a whole range of potentially painfull critters. SO when I get smitted by a bolt from above, well pending further evidence I’ll just assume it was lightning. If I see a mystical being shhod said bolt well pending further indentification I’ll assume it was one of any number of potential deity candidates, and possibly die wondering which one.


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    Fredrick Lightfoot

    Wonder how much longer our Mr. Pachauri will reside with us, seem like he is history’s prime candidate, can’t think of anybody else that has done so much damage, lets hope that someone will resolve the problem, whoever it is they got my vote.
    Fred.


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    Tel

    Before you answer, remember, the dog is behind you, so you have no direct visible proof of its existence : other than its teethmarks..

    If the dog bites me on the arse and it made no sound coming, made no sound leaving, has no shape to be touched and cannot be felt, heard, smelt or seen in any way other than the bite then I just keep walking… there’s nothing I can do about it so sometimes you get your arse bitten, stop at a doctor on the way home.

    How would I know it was a dog and not a tiger by the way?


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    Mark Stevens

    mattyb sez…

    SO when I get smitted by a bolt from above,

    We can only hope, matty! I`m not sure I could take the rush though, after cop15 spearing in and the outing of your beloved greens… But I`ll try!!


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    The ABC News (in Australia) is uncritically following The Guardian in blaming China for the failure of COP15 to destroy human industrialisation.


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    Binny

    AWG is a political problem that requires a political solution i.e. endless talk fests that achieved nothing.
    Saying that politicians won’t act when there is a real problem, is not true. When confronted with the global financial meltdown. Politicians around the world acted and acted decisively. They didn’t need to talk about it endlessly they borrowed trillions of dollars, propped up the banks, slashed interest rates to nothing, and initiated massive infrastructure projects to stimulate economies.
    Now think about this…. If they really believed that global warming, was a threat to civilisation as we know it. Why is it, that not one single cent, of those trillions of dollars of financial stimulus, was spent on reducing carbon emissions.
    In the early 2000′s AWG was slowly dying under the weight of evidence against it.
    The right side of politics was busily saving the world from terrorism. The left side of politics needed a hook,and so they picked up the dying carcass of AWG and breathed political life into it.
    Now that they have the tiger by the tail are not entirely sure how to let go.


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    Mark D.

    Binny, your observational skills are finely honed. The question you pose is brilliant:

    Now think about this…. If they really believed that global warming, was a threat to civilisation as we know it. Why is it, that not one single cent, of those trillions of dollars of financial stimulus, was spent on reducing carbon emissions.

    I won’t get into the logic of the bailouts (but that should not matter in the world of politcians)


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    Who Else

    In a fairly recent orchestrated pre-release leak of his Tax review, Ken Henry talked about “tracking” every vehicle on the road so they could pay a tax based on distance travelled. This is ostensibly to do with road use and the user pay principle.

    Given that this is what fuel excise is for, they would be double dipping.

    However, if you believe it is just about tax, how gullible you are!

    It was amazing how quickly Treasure Swan went into damage control.

    In the words of David de Rothschild talking about a Gobal Government, “It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years”.

    ARRGH! Henry let the cat out of the bag.


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    Who Else

    Correction – Rockefeller not de Rothschild.


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    ‘ Failure(defeat) of Copenhagen ‘?
    Attention!
    The NWO can return.
    It was a test.


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    The ABC is not only blaming China, as I noted previously, it is reporting that China “wrecked the talks intentionally to humiliate the US President Barack Obama.” It does this by uncritically accepting the assessment of one Mark Lynas, an environmental adviser to the Maldives, who (inter alia) praises the effectiveness of a Chinese official from his having an “inscrutable poker face.” Yes, inscrutable!
    Lynas once called Prof, Bob Carter a useful idiot, saying “I could make a scientific response to every single aspect of what Bob Carter was saying [about rising temperatures being an ordinary part of a geophysical cycle], but that would be a waste of everyone’s time.”
    See http://www.blognow.com.au/abcwatch/190601/China_in_a_Bull_Shop_II.html.


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    Albert

    No nation can be singled out for a climate debt. The extra co2 in the atmosphere is the responsibility of ALL nations who enjoy being wrenched out of the stone age with science, engineering, medicine, education, transport and communication.
    It is utterly ridiculous for any nation to suggest we owe a debt.


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    Lawrie

    Deadman.

    There is some word that the Chinese may have done the hacking. See Climate Depot. If that were the case then we owe them a vote of thanks. Obviously China, India, Brazil and South Africa all want to reach their potential and they can realistically only do that with coal power and they all have lots of coal. If they knew the AGW was a scam based on dodgy science it would make sense to scuttle Copenhagen.

    Originally I thought the group of four would do better by letting us developed nations adopt cap and trade (ETS) because most of our industry would be forced to go to Chindia. However we would have no means of making money and therefore no way of purchasing their manufactures. It makes sense then to have us earn enough to be good customers. Chinese scientists aren’t beholden to Greenpeace and I don’t see Algore selling many books there.

    Even more reason for us to dump an ETS just as the US will do next year. The Europeans are short of coal hence their desire for alterative, dearer energy such as wind. Soon their competitiveness will be zero. A price on carbon makes the playing field a little more even for them. Gordon Brown must be crapping himself and Cameron should be doing a rethink of his policies too. As for Rudd and Wong, they’re too stupid to know someone removed the ladder.


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    Actually I think the ultimate win for China would be ETS’s everywhere, and no audit’s on China. As long as China could put up it’s hand to say “Yes Please” to all the free money for projects it was going to do anyway, it could keep reaping in the cash. But auditing would kill it for them. Without external audits of what happens in China, a Kyoto II agreement would mean a ball and chain on all the other economies, and an endless free lunch for China.

    Presumably that’s why Obama et al were insisting on external audits.


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    Roy Hogue

    Even more reason for us to dump an ETS just as the US will do next year.

    Unfortunately for the U.S., the EPA will now try to do by regulation what the Senate has been wise enough to avoid passing by legislation.

    There is some hope since the EPA can be challenged in court. But I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for relief through the courts. We shall see soon enough what happens.


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    [...] January 16, 2010 bingbing Leave a comment Go to comments Even after Copenhagen’s epic fail, the UN is still at it. Categories: AGW Tags: Internet, tax, UN Comments (0) Trackbacks [...]


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