This week, newspapers in the UK appear to be full of Carmageddon headlines.
Thanks to NetZeroWatch and Ballyb, for the compilation of EV warning signs on the road to West Debacle.
The big advantage of an EV used to be the cheap fill but that’s all changed in the least year with the energy crisis. If the workers can’t afford to turn on the oven to cook a Sunday Roast, they can hardly afford to power up a car.
In a bit of a bombshell last week, Volkswagon admitted that people weren’t buying their electric cars, quaintly referring to this phenomenon as “strong consumer reluctance”. Sales were so bad though, 30% down on forecasts, that they have closed the factory at Emden, Germany for six weeks and are sacking 300 out of 1,500 staff.
Meanwhile, the UK is speeding towards the 2030 EV mandate five years faster than the rest of the world, and the backlash is growing. A Daily Mail poll finds only 1 in 4 people think it’s a good idea to ban sales of petrol and diesel cars by 2030. Fully 53% of people don’t like it. Is the UK a democracy or not? Manufacturing and industry leaders are using words like “ruinous” and talking of “the end of UK car production.” They’re warning that 800,000 UK jobs are at risk. Nothing about this makes sense. EV’s are a lousy way to change the weather. No one even knows if EV’s will reduce carbon dioxide.
At the moment in the UK 36 cars are fighting over every public charging site. Electricity demand is expected to double in the UK due to EV’s yet there is no plan to provide the extra capacity. Perhaps the real plan is to get half the country onto electric buses…?
The electric car ‘revolution’ is a disaster before it’s begun
Politicians are forcing electric cars on a public that doesn’t want them
Ben Marlow, The Telegraph
The electric car revolution is stalling, of that there can no longer be any doubt. It has left the big global carmakers floundering…
But it’s the setback at VW that stands out, raising serious questions about whether politicians are making the catastrophic mistake of forcing electric cars on a public that doesn’t want them.
Think about it for a second: an entire industry not only forced to abandon a product that the vast majority of people still want and use, but also bullied into channelling all its resources into making something on a colossal level that there simply isn’t the market for – at least not within the horrendously short timeframe that is being imposed on car manufacturers.
It’s industrial self-sabotage and a commercial, economic and social catastrophe in the making.
Mandating EVs is an “assault on the working class” says Joel Kotkin.
EV owners are wealthier, the cars are more expensive, and mandates will put owning a car out of reach of the unwashed masses…
This rush to electric cars is a colossal mistake
Spiked Online
Replacing the massive $3 trillion global car industry is an extremely high-risk economic gamble, particularly for the West.
In simple terms, the push for EVs represents an assault on the working class. Two-thirds of all EV owners have incomes in excess of $100,000.
EV mandates are also likely to force up the price of now restricted traditional cars. In the meantime, greens will demand higher fuel prices to reduce drivers’ consumption of the demon petrol. Ultimately, as even the Washington Post recently admitted, electric vehicles are hastening a return to conditions not seen since the early 20th century, when the automobile was a luxury item. ‘New cars, once part of the American Dream, [are] now out of reach for many’, it notes.
Just to repeat… None of this makes sense. Even if people have a religious fixation on climate change, this isn’t the path to salvation:
Economist Bjorn Lomborg calculates that a wholesale shift to EVs will lead to a reduction of global temperatures of no more than 0.0002 degrees Fahrenheit by 2100.
Kotkin asks “who benefits”:
So, who wins here? Certainly not middle- or working-class families for whom climate change barely registers as a primary concern.
…the biggest winner is China.
Today, China produces twice as many EVs as the US and the EU combined. Its leading EV maker, BYD, is now the world’s largest. Its electric-car exports are expected to almost double this year, helping it to overtake Japan as the biggest car exporter worldwide, according to the South China Morning Post.
China has control of much of the worlds rare metals. Giving up an industry with a century of expertise and mass public support for a new high risk industry that depends on foreign supply lines needs some explanation. No one believes we’re doing it to fix the weather.
——————-
Joel Kotkin is a spiked columnist, the presidential fellow in urban futures at Chapman University and executive director of the Urban Reform Institute. His latest book, The Coming of Neo-Feudalism, is out now. Follow him on Twitter: @joelkotkin
Image by OpenIcons from Pixabay | Das Logo der Marke Volkswagen Nutzfahrzeuge | VW EV Photo by Vogler,
There was a young climate-change tzar,
Bought a brand new all E.V. car,
Found that very few joints,
Had quick charging points,
Means this car can’t venture too far.
–Ruairi
If I was a conspiracy theorist, I would say the powers that be intend to take our cars away. Why, because at a time when power systems are being destroyed by the mad drive for “renewables” all over the world there is a mad rush to have electric cars when power will not be available. The title “renewables” is probably apt after reading recent stories of their often short lifespans and vulnerability. Add to this the bonuses of high cost, extra weight, faster tyre wear and their bad reputation for fires, no wonder people are not rushing to buy them. Can I add ugly to the list, plus the vast amount of environmental damage to mine for materials in their production.
820
In a crowded urban environment like many UK cities, off street parking is not the norm. Simple basics of recharging when you dont have aceess to home power would be enough to say mandating evs for all is a thought bubblr that wont fly.
380
The solution to that is battery swapping. Which would work out cheaper than building huge capacity batteries into EVs as well as pervasive battery distributed battery charging. A service station-like battery swap system would use far less capital and could charge using wholesale rate electricity. Vehicle life wouldn’t be tied to battery life so end-of-life battery repurposing would be cheap. Also avoids the time-wastage of charging on long trips (and range-anxiety).
632
But there’s not enough of the required raw materials in the world to build the batteries.
410
And what little materials there are, the Chinese will take from their colonies in Africa to sell to us.
240
That’s assuming the West has the wealth to buy the stuff – limited energy + deindustrialization = being poor
10
The wholesale rate electricity might be in short supply if the rush to ‘renewables’ continues.
120
Massive price spikes followed by brown and black outs.
30
Battery swapping! Not sure how one can swap a 500kg battery, and do it every day if required. We’re you serious?
340
Forklifters are powered by air and love 🙂
90
Really Foyle? thats your fix for this mess.
Lets look at the stupidity of this idea, lets say a battery pack weighing 1 ton needs a recharge every 48 hours and you have 10K EV’s on the road per day, thats 5K EV’s per day looking for a battery swap per day every day 365 days a year.
You would have to book your car in every second day to get a new set of batteries, surely charging it at home over night is the best option but alas as we already know that is also impossible due to the current lack of power due to idiotic policies by past and current governments.
face it we have been screwed, you me all of us.
250
Add to that whole mess is that an electrician friend has suggested that many particularly inner or older suburbs simply don’t have the required infrastructure in transmission wires and transformers .The wiring in the majority of houses won’t handle the peak charging and load requirements.Add to this the vicdanistan pipe dream of removing gas appliances and it becomes even more of an impossibility.
150
Easy and simplistic to say , but harder to do. When the battery forms part of the structure of the vehicle it isnt a practical idea. None of the current crop of popular EVs have this design in mind. You also then have to deploy hundreds or thousands of these easy swap stations to serve the populace , with space to warehouse and bulk power to charge them. None of that could happen by 2030 if that design and infrastructure decision hasnt already be made , and of course assuming it would even work.
Forklifts have been doing it for ages, but like many things its a) not a comparable model and b) has no scale
100
Have all the battery swap sites out in the bush where city types like the windmills to be. Just hook your battery recharge facility to your own cost free energy source. No need to worry about syncing. Easy. You might need a fleet of semis taking the cheaply charged batteries to where they are needed. Bull dust rules.
50
We do not/will not have nearly enough electrical generation to have millions of extra batteries CONSTANTLY on re-charge – day and night, seven days a week.
You can’t fix stupid, so I’m told.
40
Gary, it doesnt matter how many batteries you have on charge, as there is only a certain amount of energy needed to power the number of EVs on the road.
Assuming the average distance travelled remains similar, for every million EVs only 6-7 GWh more per day is needed……
…compared to our current 550-600 GWh per day typical consumption demand.
IE, about A 1% increase in demand.
And we wont have a million EVs for many years yet !
See comment 1.1.2.2.1 for more.
11
Talking world-wide. As well as running the entire world on non-despatchable, regrettable energy. We simply won’t have enough power.
20
It has been tried before.
Better Place
Better Place was a venture-backed international company that developed and sold battery charging and battery switching services for electric cars………
Better Place filed for bankruptcy in Israel in May 2013.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company)
50
Try Recharging This – Rolls-Royce Spectre EV
The Spectre is also heavy, weighing nearly 3 metric tons with a driver onboard. A thumping 102-kWh battery coupled with two motors offer up 430 kW (584 hp) and 900 Nm of torque, resulting in 0-60 mph in 4.4 seconds. Range is stated as 329 miles on the WLTP standard, with efficiency at 2.6 to 2.8 mi/kWh.
When you have had enough of floating silently along, and you want the Spectre to wake up, jump on the accelerator pedal. Despite its 3 tons, the car leaps forward using BMW’s largest motors—so much so that my glasses that were sitting on top of my head flew off behind me (twice). This luxury cruiser might not have the fastest 0-60 time on the EV block (and remember here Rolls-Royce has artificially capped the acceleration), but, trust me, you don’t want more than the car’s 4.4 seconds, otherwise you’re likely to get into a spot of bother.
Why? You might have to stop those 3 tons in a hurry. Don’t get me wrong, Rolls-Royce has done a commendable job with the braking, but press hard and you’re more than aware of the mass you are bringing very rapidly to a halt.
The charging architecture employed on the Spectre is 400V, not 800V, which is the top standard at the moment. The Porsche Taycan has 800V, even the Kia EV6 has 800V. If you had paid for the best of the best, and parted with more than $400,000 for the privilege, you might well be justifiably aggrieved if the Kia alongside you at the charging station was topped up and off long before your Rolls is brimmed.
On a 195kW DC fast-charger, you can get the Spectre from 10-80 per cent in 34 minutes, and Rolls says such a charger will add 100km of range in around nine minutes.
Use a more typical 11kWh AC charger and it will take you 10 hours and 45 minutes to go from 0-90 per cent of charge.
140
…and John Cadogan recently described the Chinese BYD EV now in Oz.
Cheap, badly made, the usual self-igniting issues, major safety issues, and a 0-100km/h time of around 12.4 sec!!
That’s SERIOUSLY SLOW.
The average ICE car is 8-9 seconds, any decent ev around 4 sec, and the super snail 1979 Datsun 120Y around 19.5 sec.😆😆😆
101
I’d rather waste my money on a steam powered vehicle fuelled by compressed wheat straw pellets, great fun.
30
Using the formula P=E/T we get
P=11/11hrs (rounded up from 10h 45mins)
P=1KW
Using the formula P=ExI we get
1KW=240V x 4.16 Amps
After 11 hours you get to 90% charge, if every house hold did this we would not have the power generation to achieve this and when could you implement Foyles fix by changing your batteries? Would you change your flat batteries on the way home from work?
What idiots would support these types of policies?
PS Feel free to check my math
110
Now do the maths on how many hours you would have to queue if everyone wanted to get petrol at the same time.
315
The beauty of re-filling ICE cars, is that it takes a couple of minutes, so the chances of all of us wanting to fill at the same time is virtually zero. You can easily verify this by observing that this is the case RIGHT NOW and we don’t have a problem. As stated earlier – you can’t fix stupid.
150
Your math is sound,…..
But you logic is flawed !
Why would every household need to recharge a 100+ kWh battery simultaneously ?
We do not have 100kWh EVs in every household, and NEVER will have.
Also , how many people who might have that 110kWh RR Spectre will ever be “driving home from work “ ?..
..more likely they will be “flying” home in a personal autopiloted Drone EV !
41
Chad,
Can i ask how did you come up with 100+KWH battery figure? you dont think the standard EV will take 11 hours to charge?
cheers
40
C24, .. the 100+ kWh is from the same source you got the 11 hrs charge time…. OOz ‘s post !
And no!, i dont think the standard EV will need 11 hrs to recharge.
As i have pointed out before, the average car user only travels 35 kms per day, which for an EV means about 6 kWh of energy needed.
That could be recharged in well under 1 hour from a domestic power supply
PS… i now think your math was flawed..
.. where did you get the 11 (kWh?) in your ..P= 11/11 = 1kW power ..?
Note, if we ever get 1000,000 EVs .. (that could take mmany years at the current rate of 30k per year !)…. That would suggest an extra 6 GWhs of energy per day needed to recharge then all.
That 6GWh represents around 1.0% of our current total energy demand.
….i sure hope we have more than 1% spare capacity !😳😲
21
Precisely. That’s why the EV dream is a delusion and trap. The masses fall for it and are trapped by the total inability of the grid to support demand, now or in coming decades, and are thereby automatically severely constrained in travel movements, which is a primary objective…
40
What “EV dream” is that ?
I am sure many do dream of owning an EV, and they can/do make it happen, but most of those will not be 100kWh , and they will never be in all households .
( just as ICEs are not in ALL households currently)
12
@Chad
Please take a bush holiday
Somewhere more than 250 km from the CBD of your city
20
Hmm ?…why ?…what do you think i will learn ?
12
Chris Bowen would.
10
I do believe that we tried electric cars(along with the Stanley Steamer)and found them NOT fit for purpose.This new version will go the same way as the”DoDo”bird.
10
At the same time as there is a mad rush to have electric cars there is also a mad rush to have houses powered by only electricity, thereby putting more pressure on an increasingly unreliable electricity supply.
390
Not only that, once we are ‘all electric’, they will have us by the short’ n ‘curlies.
220
For some time I have suspected the main purpose of the push for electric cars is that they are a stepping stone to no cars. But hey, maybe I AM a conspiracy theorist.
430
The trouble with conspiracy theories is they tend to come true.
70
The recent press release by the World Economic Forum blatantly stated that the world vehicle fleet would have to be reduced by 75% to “save the world”.
They are so sure of themselves after the population’s meek response to Covid restrictions, they are happy to admit their goal is to reduce the waste of the public having personal transport larger than a bicycle.
I find it amazing the enthusiasm of a small number of my car club for the forced transition to battery cars.
100
I thought this would happen in time. There was only so many virtue signalling fools who think that an EV will change the climate.
560
Glenn,
You have described OUR Climate Change Minister EXACTLY.
We used to have a name for people like him; “Passion Fingers.”
They F-ed everything they touched.
380
How many idiots vote green, 10 -11%, there you go.
90
And about 60-70% vote green by stealth as the Uniparty also push this rubbish without blatantly saying so…
130
When it was only Tesla the globalist gurus thought as the major players committed to their own version competition would push the price down and Tesla would just be a bit player. What they didn’t count on is that these companies have shareholders and workers and shareholders will accept losses for only so long and workers are going to be objecting to the prospect of losing the job. Also as shown by VW the emissions reduction is only as effective as the electricity used to recharge. In fact looking at the VW EV info if you are an owner in China because coal dominates their grid you create even more emissions using your car than if it was using petrol. Seeing you have a substantial emissions deficit in production this is not encouraging.With the sheer volume of numbers in China it’s clear that no matter what everywhere else in the world does Chinas excess emissions will totally offset any gains in other countries.
As the general population , motor vehicle companies and governments realise that this transition ain’t goner happen the EV ambition backdowns will come thick and fast. They will be walking away from these commitments leaving Tesla pretty much as the only specialist player who will themselves concentrate on luxury EVs for the rich and famous. The globalist elites will start to push their Who needs a car anyway?push in line with the WEF recent white paper making a virtue of being a zero car family. I suspect that unless they actually ban car ownership this coercion will go down like a lead balloon. Hopefully the more draconian they make the rules the sooner we will get public resistance to all this nonsense and the sooner we can return the world back to some normality and sanity.
490
And such customers are not concerned with cost or range as any distance beyond what the EV is easily capable of will be by private jet or helicopter.
290
It is now imperative that Australia calls another referendum. We must vote yes in this referendum.
The referendum to find out if the Australian people want “net zero” in terms of economic stability, the highest energy prices in the world, out of control inflation, all of which being the result of an out of control government spending our wealth on non productive dreams of God knows what!
The question of progress toward nuclear power generation must also be answered by the Australian people, not some crazed green future dreamers!
Call this referendum in tandem with the other Voice. Let’s see who has the loudest Voice!
Also people remember you & your children will have to live with your answers for many decades to come.
You can’t buy thinking caps retail. These referenda would be your last chance to avoid economic ruin!
200
In Britain we had a referendum. We voted in favour of freedom & democracy and against the collectivist authoritarian supranational socialism of the European Union. Those who voted for freedom & democracy are having their bank accounts closed by collectivist authoritarian supranational corporate Banks. The Banks and Canadian politicians say they admire communist China. I say ‘Coutts’ to that.
250
Why have a referendum? We pay highly, with workplace conditions , beyond average, and pay that the average bloke would die for , to have our elected ones to have the intelligence and forethought to position our economy in a prime position. Referenda cost more, or just as much as electing these “leaders” . I suggest we get better leaders. From where?
70
We need fewer leaders, not replacements. Less governing, fewer bureaucrats and so-called ‘public servants’, less regulation, more free choice.
How to get to that though, I’m not sure. Stiffer spines and a bit more courage, and let the engineers explain stuff.
110
We don’t have ‘Leaders’.
What we have is incompetent managers. These ‘people’ make their political decisions based upon group think amongst their peers, ie. Other incompetent managers. Ideas are fed into this cesspool by corrupt NGOs and billionaires.
We don’t have leaders !
50
That is not what referendums do.
10
Referenda.
50
Tesla dont actually make a “luxury EV”…
Unless you consider their Model S or X as luxury..?….which i can assure you the rich and famous do not !
Mercedes, Bentley, RR, BMW, etc,.. are the EV makers serving the the real rich/luxury market, with those Teslas confined to the “Cult” tesla fan boys.
And Musk will have to concentrate on the “mass EV” market ( Mod’s 3 , Y, & 2) if he is going to make /keep his car business profitable.
61
“Also as shown by VW the emissions reduction is only as effective as the electricity used to recharge. ”
That is true, about the only places an EV might be slightly effective would Norway or Iceland, as long as you could afford a heated garage.
80
And as soon as the heater/demister is turned on, the power gauge beeps.
50
What about France ?…mostly Nuclear
Or. N Zealand..mostly Hydro..
Or, Tassie,..Hydro also
10
You are forgetting that CO2 emitted in China is the virtuous variety, bringing a third world country out of poverty.
110
Chinese Communist CO2 (CCCO2) is a hybrid CO2 atomic modification that has different characteristics to Capitalist CO2.
CCCO2 is an inscrutably benign CO2.
50
We can only wish for a consumer boycott to stifle the political madness. A new political pragmatism that listens to voters rather than the UN would be more than welcome. The current madness appears to be driven by elitist panic to get their way before we discover they were lying all along.
430
Nissan’s e-car boss is now speaking up:
https://notrickszone.com/2023/07/04/green-new-deals-unaffordable-mobility-nissan-head-warns-e-cars-too-expensive-for-many/
240
Amusing comment from Nissan boss,…since it was Nissan that gave us the Leaf with exactly those issues…poor range, and high costs !
80
Chad,
It is not an amusing comment it is an HONEST comment perhaps you should learn the difference.
50
Honest from him…
..but amusing to me ! 👍
Do you see the difference ?
Nissan have spectacularly screwed up their EV offerings, ( and ICEs), they are a joke in the industry .
30
I wonder how much it would cost to hire Dylan Mulvayney??
50
Lack of funds to buy an EV could amount to much the same as a boycott.
20
Throughout History, Transitions have been driven by choices made by Consumers and NOT by any Mandates. A Mandated Transition will NOT work. End of story.
So, wake up ‘Pollies’ and as John Cleese said in that famous Monty Python comedy sketch – “Wake up polly”…………
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnciwwsvNcc
290
Exactly. Free markets may not work perfectly all the time, but command economies have never worked.
100
There are exceptions. Before WW2, Czechoslovakia was a drive-on-the-left-side country. For years there were discussions in the parliament about switching to the right-side driving, it was too expensive, etc. Then Mr. Hitler occupied the country, issued an order, and in a day everybody was driving on the right side.
10
Unless a country generates its power exclusively by nuclear or hydro power, the vast majority of power on a country’s grid will be generated by coal or gas, and therefore CO2 emissions will be generated (not at it matters).
In fact, due to conversion losses of converting coal or gas to electricity, transferring it, charging a battery and discharging it etc., I suspect that electric cars generate more CO2 than an equivalent petrol or diesel vehicle.
400
You might want to look at this statistic. Now this statistic gives you the emission data for electric vehicles (lifetime emissions included). So a simple calculation will give lie to that statement ‘ No one even knows if EV’s will reduce carbon dioxide.’
349
That link says nothing that I can see about CO2 (what warmists call “carbon” (sic)) emissions to generate electricity to power EVs.
390
I looked at your link…tied heavily to those idots at the UN. Calling for increased taxation on fossil fuels to FORCE us into EV’s. EV’s generate significantly more CO2 ( not that it matters ) during construction. The mining of all the rare earths to make the useless things…a solution to a non existent problem…. also generates CO2 ( not that it matters ). I have grave doubts that EV’s are going to change the climate.
370
What about the increased rubber dust generated by the thrashing an EVs tyres are subjected to, no mention there and it will be a real problem.
140
Jo
You have not addressed one of the biggest issues with EVs, and that is their catastrophic depreciation. The batteries wear out far faster than anybody will admit, and the cost to replace them is so large that the vehicle is rapidly worth nothing at all.
I drive a 15 year old Honda Civic and its going very well still, and I used to have a 30 year old Corolla, which was also going strong. These vehicles are cheap and still usable, and accessible to those of limited means. But if EVs are mandated there will be no older 2nd hand cars at all. The ability of the poor to get to jobs or do what everybody else does with their car will be eliminated.
And with power stations recklessly closed and huge leaps in power costs we will quickly end up with a situation where only a very small percentage of the population will have vehicles at all, and they will be having to turn them over every few years. Manufacturing relies on volume to keep prices down, so with only a few EVs sold expect prices to skyrocket.
If people want EVs then let them buy them and suffer the consequences, but govts must never ever stop ICEs being made available and must not artificially inflate their costs and fuel costs to wreck those of us who need to get to work etc.
580
So EVs batteries are really just like single-use plastic bags.
330
Indeed Prophet, I did not mention the depreciation. Somewhere in the set of articles it was noted that the average ICE car was 14 years old, which is why someone “did some maths” and decided 2035 was the year they had to stop selling ICE cars so that by 2050 the car fleet would be “Net Zero”.
What will happen of course, is that as long as we are allowed to, we will keep fixing the old ICE cars. Our two currently 14 years and 24 and going well.
That article noted that there were virtually no EV’s in the national UK second hand car market.
80
Thanks Jo. EVs are all the rage with some at present, but when the huge depreciation issues hit I think they will be deserted in droves. Interesting that there is bugger all 2nd hand market. When things get bad I imagine that will change!
30
Didn’t I see just last week a photo of thousands of Chinese-built EVs parked for lack of buyers? Did I imagine it?
250
You did Tarquin: https://joannenova.com.au/2023/06/thousands-of-evs-rotting-in-fields-in-china/
But in order to get the EV subsidies, companies are producing vast numbers of cars no one wants to buy. It seems these cars are registered, falsely listed as “sold” and driven 30 miles to a graveyard to presumably rot, or spontaneously combust, whichever comes first.
90
To your point in thd final para
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2023/07/jane-caro-needs-you-to-know-she-has-an-electric-vehicle.html
110
Good to see Jane Caro, who I have zero time for, finding out that the EV she bought is completely useless.
Could not happen to a better person….
With her sky high pay packet she can recover from this mistake, but for the poor it will ruin them.
By the way, my wifes brother purchased a brand new EV a couple of months back. I told them they were mad and warned about battery issues. Stop press – the vehicles battery failed and the car has had to be replaced by the maker….
270
Not much sympathy in the comments in your link…
70
Hello PoB
Meet the new demographic, the Uber Driver Voter, rapidly rising in number, hungry for subsidy.
50
I linked to this article from Willis Eschenbach yesterday and if it is true we have a whole new ball game.
Here’s the OWI Data graph he linked to yesterday and is headed “Share of global primary energy consumption by source”. And this clearly shows that in 2021 Solar is just 0.65% and Wind is just 1.17%. Or under 2% combined after wasting TRILLIONs of $ for decades.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-primary-energy-share-inc-biomass
210
Here’s Willis Eschenbach’s full article and can Jo or David or Tony or anyone else check it out.
Are Wind and Solar super expensive MYTHS or not?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/07/03/the-myth-of-replacing-fossil-fuels/
110
Neville, it’s a little off topic, but it still concerns power generation. You mention super expensive in your comment, and using one of Willis’ graphs, (the one at the bottom for Capacity Factor from Industrial grid scale solar plants) well that, in conjunction with my own data for wind generation, we can look at just one thing here.
My usual ‘hobby horse’.
The total Nameplate for wind generation is 10,277MW and it’s CF is 30%, so here we have an equivalent Nameplate (so, power generated across a full year reduced to an average Nameplate) of 3083MW
The total Nameplate for Grid Scale Solar power plants is 8809MW, and using Willis CF for that, we get an equivalent Nameplate of 1453MW.
OK then, add those two together and you get an equivalent Nameplate of 4536MW.
The total Nameplate for the ….. TWO (just two of them, mind you) largest coal fired plants in Australia is 5520MW.
Okay, so the coal fired plants don’t operate at full Nameplate across the year but the total power delivered would be similar.
Here, for Solar Power, we have 89 power plants spread across the Country, and for wind, there are 79 power plants spread across the Country.
So, all up, that’s 168 power plants.
And all they can deliver is the approximate equal power of just TWO ancient and time expired (if you believe coal critics) coal fired power plants, which deliver their power on demand, regularly, just feed in coal.
So when it comes to wind and solar, that looks to be the archetype of super expensive to me.
Oh, and yesterday (Tuesday 4Jul2023) all those 89 Industrial grid scale solar plants delivered 8.4GWH of power at a CF of 3.9%.
Now, just on this one day alone, yesterday, Bayswater had all four Units in operation. Across the whole day, the plant delivered 62GWH at a CF of 98%. So that was 7.4 times the delivered power from 4 Units compared to 89 separate power plants. Just one of the four Units delivered almost double the power from all those solar plants.
The fact that it’s super expensive is only part of my concern really, because ….. far and away ….. the single most important thing is that they don’t deliver power on, well let’s face it, any scale you want to mention.
Tony.
310
Thanks again Tony and you always support your claims with the up to date grid evidence.
But even some very bright people I’ve tried to explain this to take a while before they start to understand.
Just imagine the folly trying to explain this data to Bowen or Albanese?
150
I also enjoyed Willis’s assessment.
From an engineering planning perspective, we probably need to use the worse case CF of the wind/solar generation, taking into account the demand curve. This now falls on cold calm evenings in May, June and July, but will extend through all nights if EVs reach sufficient penetration, noting that jury is still out. The cost dilemma facing the RE industry now is that adding more solar will only result in more dumped power during the day, diminishing the actual consumption CF, causing declining profits. Adding more wind is SLIGHTLY better, but wind is less predictable and needs even more backup or storage which further adds to the cost. Either way, these solutions can’t get close to providing our energy needs even if the cost and geo-political problems didn’t exist, which they do.
60
The Truth of this issue could have been clearly demonstrated by proper engineering analysis.
If three engineers were set to designing an electricity supply system for three isolated cities of on million people, the results could clearly differentiate the capacities and costs of each system.
City 1. Solar panels.
City 2. Wind turbines.
City 3. Coal fired.
Have a guess at the cheapest. Then guess the most environmentally friendly. Then guess at which cities would have almost constant blackouts.
The fact that this mess is in place today is evidence of a force at work that is intent on destroying everything we have built here in Australia.
Reason, logic, economics and true concerns for the environment are not things that we are allowed to consider: instead we must shut up and watch the planned crash of civilisation.
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No links allowed.
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That is between these isolated cities.
And, of course, the same applies to electric vehicles, but their problems are harder to conceal.
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This deliberate and systematic destruction of our electricity supply system, our ability to power industry and business, to power our homes (let alone the madness of EVs), the restrictions on our agriculture and fisheries that will both limit production and price food out of range, mis-managed financial/fiscal policy by RBA/government that is further forcing up the cost of living, taxes on everything that moves or is useful or productive, red and green tape stifling any productive venture…
I could go on. All of this together, this death by first a thousand little cuts but soon to be a massive chop is ruining what used to be a great country.
Ambition, interest in the future, the drive to get up and go, to do, to be self-reliant, to be enterprising in a productive way, is being deliberately stifled. Schools, universities and the media are deliberately scaring children and young people into believing that the world is literally about to burst into flames and be “destroyed”. No wonder they’re terrified and depressed about their future!
With all the information freely available, even to the likes of me, a little old lady in regional Queensland, there is absolutely no excuse for our politicians and the public servants whose “advice” they follow to not know the damage they are causing. They do know, but persist, so they do actually intend the destruction they’re causing.
There are real people on the receiving end of their policies and legislation – “ordinary Australians”, as Albo so recently designated us, as if he and his ilk are somehow not also Australians but somehow far superior and elevated above our supposed humble and forelock-tugging status. They do in fact see us as mere serfs, and themselves as our rulers by UN divine fiat.
So yes, this destruction is deliberate. It cannot be otherwise. The question is who is driving it, and how do we stop them?
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The people have voted for this. The people will have to live with itOR wake up & be very particular about who you vote for. Voting for dreamers & professional bureaucrats will never help. Vote for realists & pragmatists who’re prepared to get “ their hands” dirty working for the whole country.
Your future depends on your choices. Your wallet will remain empty if you don’t wake up!
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Good outline there Bushkid, and a very Inclusive list of means by which they’re controlling us.
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Bushkid,
The only way we can avoid the current projected crash is to reinstate accountability and stop rewarding idiocy . We know that they are lying and they know we know that they are lying and yet they still lie . (apologies to Solzhenitsyn)
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“The Fake British Radio Show That Helped Defeat the Nazis. By spreading fake news and sensational rumors, intelligence officials leveraged “psychological judo” against the Nazis in World War II”
No need for the bombers when you have perfected the propaganda!
Manufacturing lies in ruin and services; health, water, transport & power are teetering on the brink without a bomb being dropped.
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Seems about the same formula we are being fed these days
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I think the leaders of the Regressives (who tell them what to think), and Elites, know battery operated cars are unaffordable for ordinary people to own and run.
They have no intention of them replacing gasoline/diesel cars.
They hate the personal mobility and freedom afforded to ordinary people by gasoline cars over the last 100 odd years they have been affordable for such people.
That’s why they are introducing “15 minute city” concepts. They are getting people used to the idea of permanent lockup conditions, just like during covid.
It’s no coincidence that in the more extreme Nanny States fanatically compliant with UN/WEF decrees such as Australia, that during covid lockups the permissible distance to travel was 10km (6 miles). There clearly was no other reason such as an evidence-based health reason and none was ever produced. This is about how far you can drive (or a bus could take you) at an average speed of 40kph in suburban traffic with stops/starts at traffic lights.
And don’t let any Regressive/Leftist/Elite tell you “15 minute cities” are just the idea of “crazy right wing tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists”. They absolutely intend to do this if the thinking community remains silent. Why not do a Goolag search of your city along with the term “15 minute city” without quote marks.
REFERENCES
In Victoria, Australia they are talking about “20 minute neighbourhoods” instead of 15 minute cities.
And then News Corp comes along and tells us it’s a conspiracy theory.
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Dave – I never bothered to follow any distance restrictions during covid. And we regularly went across the border to do whatever we wanted rather than have the idiotic govt dictate nonsense to us.
All others should have done the same and we would never have the govt imposing idiocy ever again.
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I drive past the huge, integrated steel complex here in NovoCastria, where I once worked, and get really p’d off.
It’s no longer.
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The steel mill will probably be disappeared from history and replaced with a vast number of tiny apartments at an inappropriately high population density and built by a Chinese-owned company.
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Another consideration, as Jo has reported here before, is that even a minor accident can cause an insurance right-off of an EV due to concerns about damage to the battery back. This will result in dramatically higher insurance cost for such cars, although in fanatical WEF/UN following countries like Australia, the government will force insurance companies to distribute the risk over all vehicles.
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Local SES and firies have been told to park trucks ahead and behind any EV fire. Apparently one tried to escape while burning when the drive system engaged, and went 100 metres down the road before wedging in an embankment.
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Interesting, but I suppose that the fact that it’s still fizzing is also a sign of residual voltage?
Wouldn’t have expected that.
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I dont think the failure modes are very predictable, especially in an accident scenario
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Spot on David.I heard a panel repairer on radio saying that they had a written off EV and had no idea where or what to do with it and not one govt dept could be found to give them an answer.Told to store it and they would get back to them.The dilemma is that given it has battery damage and the intensity and difficulty in extinguishing a burning EV the panel shop want nothing to do with it.
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AGAIN Linnea Lueken tells us the truth about UNRELIABLE W & S during heatwaves. Just when you need your electricity these expensive TOXIC disasters struggle to offer you any useful relief.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/07/04/correct-cbs-news-texas-wind-energy-struggles-in-heat-and-other-conditions/
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More “electric” – “ElBowen’s next crusade”?
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/1688345157656-png.8174610/
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And seems “ElBowen” have been sucking on the same koolade bottle –
“GREEN: Trudeau government betting billions on uncertain technological breakthroughs”
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/other/green-trudeau-government-betting-billions-on-uncertain-technological-breakthroughs/ar-AA1aZGt6?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=e577dde60df84dc68e3fab22adec803c&ei=42
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It makes sense to those with a certain Malthusian obsession- the hoi oligoi of corporatist globalism, who apparently believe the twentieth century wasn’t in their best interest and want it reversed.
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All of these crazy green schemes that get funded by taxpayers in the west, end up only benefiting China. Worse still, China exempted itself from all of these net zero targets and consumes FF like a drunken sailor, increasing CO2 emissions each year by an amount at least as large as our total emissions and not one protester is ever seen outside the Chinese embassy in Canberra.
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“and not one protester is ever seen outside the Chinese embassy in Canberra.”
Why is that I wonder, there must be a simple answer.
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I suspect you’re right and the answer has nothing to do with CO2
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This is not a “Mistake”.
The “engineering” of EVs is clearly dubious, however, the “crisis engineering” in the energy sector is starkly obvious to any who have not quaffed deeply of the toxic brew in the cup of “standard true view”.
The energy sector is being to set-up to FAIL, globally.
Forget “crisis management”, this is Rahm Emmanuel on steroids; “MANAGEMENT BY CRISIS”.
It is a GLOBAL attempt to “manage” the peasant population as if they were unruly wild cattle. Who determined that the sociopaths were competent, careful “stockmen” is debatable. My guess is such vermin are “self-selecting” narcissists from the start.
Or maybe a better “rural” analogy is more like smaller beasts. “Sorting the sheep from the goats” ring a bell?
It is an apt description of a long-serving herding / mustering practice. Goats are generally taller and have better eyesight. They cheerfully graze with the sheep. They respond to human “activity” faster. So, the trick is to get the goats to take the hint to go in a certain direction
The mixed herd is “guided” into small yards. Herders on foot jump into the pens and start tossing the goats out, literally.They are free to go back to nibbling on the foliage, whilst the sheep go to be shorn, or be turned into fluffy slippers and chops.
Any parallels with modern human life spring to mind?
Also bear in mind that in Oz, feral goats are very harsh on the vegetation, especially when the going gets tough. Unlike sheep, especially Merinos, they can stand on their hind legs to strip leaves and bark from trees that sheep cannot reach, Goats also will try to “climb” any leafy tree growing at an “angle” All very “quaint”, but not only have they damaged a lot of Australia how do you think much of the Middle East was desertified? (apart from several catastrophic geological / climatic events)?
Keep the behaviours of the flocks and the herders in mind and you may just live better, longer.
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Does anybody know what the tyre life is on EVs? I would think it would be significantly lower due to the bigger weight of the cars.
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Tyre life us a pretty subjective thing given all the variables. Must be slightly more if you controlled everything else , but I doubt the average EV buyer would care. They would say they make it up with all the other “savings”
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Which EV is heavier than my 2600 kg diesel 4×4 , which not only drives fast on unsurfaced roads whilst towing another 1800kg,..yet still manages to make a set of tyres last 80,000 kms ?
Do stop swallowing all this anti EV weight/tyre life/ road damage BS !
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Those made by the manufacturers renowned for their engineering excellence – the top of the line German ones:
https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/bjorn-nyland-weight-battery-capacity-20210823.png
Can seat four people in luxury and tow nothing. Made for the UN officials car pool and needed for virtue signalling.
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Not BS at all. If you stop cherry picking and compare comparable cars its pretty clear they are heavier in general terms. Whether that matters is another issue I guess, but usually its not cost free and is why car makers usually try to reduce weight.
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Why compare models ?
If the best selling ICEs are heavier and 10x more numerous than the top selling EVs , why would anyone assume higher tyre wear or road damage, from the EVs ?
And has been said repeatedly, tyre wear is more a function of driving style than vehicle weight .
..so i call BS on it again !
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When it runs over the next nail.
I expect for EV quite good because they do not get out much and even less often to building sites. Most, if any, do not come with a spare because the battery requires that space. They come with temporary repair kits. I do not know if the tyre can be patched after the temporary repair.
My last tyre replacement was due to a leaky patch after puncturing with a nail from a residential building site near my son’s house. I put up with keeping up to the leak for more than a year to get more life out of the tyres.
I have learnt to be wary of building sites and small factories where goods received get offloaded and unpacked in the car park.
EV tyres are just as prone to puncture as any other. In the last 15 years, I have not got through a tyre life cycle without having a puncture repair in at least one tyre. I am not sure if the EV tyres are recoverable after emergency inflating.
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story tip
this is terrifying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd6I8YCnHrQ
the esg crap and all the rest
NZ an d Australia already in
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Bruce,
The sheep fear the wolf but get eaten by the shepherd . The dominos are falling , and we know where this is heading . The sheep are getting spooked….
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Sadly, “Shaun the Sheep” is just fiction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BSuXfMU3CM
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Ha ha! Very enjoyable cheer-up before bed…
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>”No one even knows if EV’s will reduce carbon dioxide”
There is actually a significant PROduction of carbon dioxide at the production phase, and overall only 30% less than ICE:
Life Cycle Emissions: EVs Vs Combustion Engine Vehicles
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/life-cycle-emissions-evs-vs-combustion-engine-vehicles
“The production emissions for BEVs are approximately 40% higher than those of hybrid and ICE vehicles. According to a McKinsey & Company study, this high emission intensity can be attributed to the extraction and refining of raw materials like lithium, cobalt, and nickel that are needed for batteries, as well as the energy-intensive manufacturing process of BEVs.”
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By chance, I was stuck in traffic yesterday behind number plate 1VW-9NO on a Holden. God is watching over us. Geoff S
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There was a young climate-change tzar,
Bought a brand new all E.V. car,
Found that very few joints,
Had quick charging points,
Means this car can’t venture too far.
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But that’s the problem. The answer they have is its just a matter of lack of infrastructre, so let’s roll it out. Jobs!
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I like the smell of diesel. EV’s don’t have that. Plus diesel won’t be a candidate for a runnaway thermal reaction like EV’s with Li batteries. If I was forced to have an EV I’d have to have a diesel dangly or a diesel spritz to feel normal.
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Good point.
A market oportunity for diesel and petrol sented air freshners ?
51
The Sunday roast is about all I can afford these days. Its off peak power on weekends.
But I still avoid it. I use the BBQ as the oven now. Its getting old and crusty so the new one will be one of those very small BBQs. The smaller the better.
Ovens to me now, are the equivalent of a 1970s 350 Chev.
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The Weber Baby Q is small and burns efficiently. Not low purchase price though for the size – around $400.
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That is while you can still access bottled LPG or firewood. I fear both of these fuel sources will suddenly become scarce in the future.
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Idiot Jane Caro driving her BYD Atto Ev to Canberra and can’t find a charging point that either works or is not a Tesla one, LOL.
Oh, and Flinders Island is 99.9% diesel just now.
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And not just the generation,….
….i suspect most of their transport is as well !
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How many EVs do the Flinders Island and King Island wind and solar farms charge? None, I bet, unless the diesel generators are running.
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Another EV fact that 99% of buyers don’t know and haven’t researched is if you don’t spend $$$$$$ on expensive ‘EV specific’ replacement tyres, you will find your range will evaporate and road noise from the tyres will make itself known to an annoying extent.
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If range is the ultimate factor, there are “non ev specific” tyres that are reported by ev owners to give comparable range,..but most with added advantages such as 20% improvement in stopping distance and more grip in the wet !…as well as lower costs.
Likewise, the technical and owners forums report that tyre noise is not an issue with many other tyre choices outside the manufacturers recomendations.
In other words…more EV critic false rumours !
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I think the European car manufacturers are starting to realise that the EV rollout to an unrealistic deadline is catastrophically stupid and will destroy their auto industry. So what other parts of Net Zero are moronic? Pretty well all of them. 15 minute cities, wind power, recycling, travel restrictions, green jobs, heat pumps. The proponents of Net Zero will tell you there’s some magic gizmo just around the corner that will make their fantasy viable. Or you have completely moronic politicians (Chris Bowen ) who will advise the best way to avoid high power bills is to install an even more expensive solar system.
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No need to worry about the EV rollout in Australia ( or anywhere else i suspect)
As pointed out by “autoexpert” john Cadogan, …
https://youtube.com/shorts/rMgsh0xYA7w?feature=share
18+ million vehicles registered in Au,…
1 million new vehicles sold each year (ICEs) currently..
If ALL new cars sold were EVs ..it would still take 18 years to replace the entire fleet .
BUT , that cannot happen,..there are not enough EVs being made to do that ..and with only 33,000 sold in 2022 its going to take a LOT longer before even 50% of sales (500,000 pa) are EVs….likely 20+ years !
…and then another 20+ yrs to replace most (never all) of the passenger fleet.
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“Electricity demand is expected to double in the UK due to EV’s yet there is no plan to provide the extra capacity. ”
I dont understand why you think they need to supply extra capacity for expected electricity demand” They keep telling you over and over again how they are going to do it.
“Klaus Schwab wants to reduce automobile ownership by 75% by 2050, the key is 15-minute cities”
When they say “You will own nothing and be happy,” trust them … They mean it. If you want to maintain the status quo you going to have to do more than just talk common sense.
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The data is there for anyone who wants to see:
https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/co2-emissions-from-energy-combustion-and-industrial-processes-1900-2021
All the effort and expense to reduce CO2 has done nothing – with the exception of Covid and it did not have the specific objective of reducing CO2. Those countries that are de-industrialising are reducing CO2 emissions but the countries making all the stuff needed for the transition are increasing CO2 emissions. And the latter are expanding their economies so the net result is that CO2 keeps going up. A very good outcome for the global biomass.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344224354/figure/fig5/AS:935170047754284@1599973322857/Change-trends-of-vegetation-NPP-a-and-vegetation-coverage-b-which-were-obtained-from.png
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Did covid reduce co2?
Last data I looked at, the co2 concentration rose the same amount.
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Lose your car, lose your independence! Enforce a use structure through crippling fuel costs or limited availability is akin to a return to Roman times. Only the ruling elite and the military apparatus will have the freedom of movement. The rest of us best get used to a horizon that only goes ten miles from your hovel. Dont worry, we will own nothing and WILL be happy!
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If their fantasy EVs were used on King island they would certainly be charged using fossil fuels via the always RELIABLE Diesel generator.
And for the 26 million Aussies EVs would be a super expensive UNRELIABLE disaster and make SFA difference to the climate or temp by 2050 or 2100 or…..?
https://www.hydro.com.au/clean-energy/hybrid-energy-solutions/success-stories/king-island
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Here’s the quote from Lomborg about TOTAL global changeover to EVs providing ZIP difference to temperature at all by 2100.
“But perhaps none of that matters if electric cars will save the planet? And they will, won’t they? Er, no”.
“The International Energy Agency (IEA) estimates that if every nation achieves their ambitious targets on increasing electric car ownership, it will reduce CO2 emissions in this decade by 235 million tons”.
“That, according to the UN Climate Panel’s standard model, will reduce global temperatures by about one ten-thousandth of a degree Celsius (0.0001c) by the end of the century.”
IOW no measurable change in TEMPERATURE by 2100.
Never forget that ZERO GLOBAL temp change would WASTE endless TRILLIONs of $ by 2100.
What a sick joke, but will it make the leftie extremists happy?
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Here’s a link to Lomborg’s full article.
https://www.climatedepot.com/2022/02/07/lomborg-electric-cars-wont-save-the-planet-have-polluting-particles-just-like-gas-vehicles-are-not-even-that-cost-effective/
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Is the UK PM reconsidering net zero too now? Maybe.
https://www.gbnews.com/politics/rishi-sunak-climate-change-pledge-dropped-rumours-latest
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…No one even knows if EV’s will reduce carbon dioxide – It is known that EVs lead to a net increase in co2 ’emissions’ over their full lifecycle. So why this mad push? Id say it has something to do with the 15 min cities insanity. Curb movement, curb freedoms. Middle class must be slaves once more.
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But it doesnt matter if they do or not.
The fact that they are currently impractical for most users does not matter either.
They were launched by smart businesmen as a means of accessing the money from carbon credits created by governments, ….
….and they are promoted by politicians as a means of being seen to be active in the “green space” that is popular in modern society.
EVs are a natural technical progression in transport power. ( EG,..animal, steam, oil, …now electrical )
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For the UK, and probably Oz, the reality of EVs is that if everything they told us was true and it all worked and the country successfully switched over then the impact globally would still be insignificant. No difference whatsoever.
The reality is our governments are committing economic suicide. They are the enemy.
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“EV’s are a lousy way to change the weather.”
Surely you meant – EV’s CANNOT change the weather.
“No one even knows if EV’s will reduce carbon dioxide.”
Oh I think they do; and it won’t.
Like windmills, the recovery of the necessary rare earths and other raw materials and the processing, transport and ultimate disposal, all rely on fossil fuels. They may run ‘cleaner’ than ICE’s, apart from the extra brake dust, the rubber tyre particulates, and the broken roads that will need resurfacing due to their extra weight, but at both ends of their lives they are far more polluting. And I mean real pollution, not the Earth’s breath of life CO2.
And, hey, what has CO2 got to do with Earth’s temperature anyway?
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BATTERIES: The answer is a better battery, for one thing. There is at least one variant, graphene-aluminium, being developed now in Australia. Iceberg risks of transatlantic travel were solved by airline passenger flights that fly above them.
THE BACKGROUND TO OUR WOES: This all comes back to the fallacy that has ruled our lives for the past 30 or 40 years. A few physicists know why CO2 is overall and in several specific ways an innocuous COOLING gas. Did you ever hear them tell why or see any discussion of it? Watch the “skeptical stars” in debate sometime. They appear as clueless as the babes in the “save our planet” marches. Then we have “President” Joe Biden who wants to turn off the sun. Einstein was never said more right than when he compared the limitations of human intelligence to the limitless stupidity that surrounds and directs us.
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Bugga! I have developed a bad case of EV hesitancy.
00
https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/used-vehicles-get-second-life-africa-what-cost
Used vehicles get a second life in Africa – but at what cost?
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The failed legacy media are complicit in the battery car scam – or it could just be the usual journalistic incompetence – by talking up the June sales of battery cars in the UK. The reality that they ignored was that they came to less than 18% of the total sales. But further to that, nearly 79% of sales were to business or fleet operators. So out of the overall monthly sales, just 3.7% were battery car sales to private buyers.
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[…] By Jo Nova […]
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Green is what I call tissue paper infrastructure – vulnerable to natural events and technically fragile.
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