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Monday Open Thread

8.8 out of 10 based on 8 ratings

105 comments to Monday Open Thread

  • #
    pete of perth

    Good morning.

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    James Murphy

    I’m not living in Australia, but will vote at the Aussie embassy in Paris during the week. It’s remarkable how the AEC now says you don’t have to vote if you’re overseas, and also, that they have made it very hard for people overseas to vote, by dramatically reducing the number of embassies/consulates that are allowing in-person voting.

    As for postal votes, apparently the postal service is now so poor that the AEC has retained DHL to deliver the papers, and even then, they are taking a few weeks to arrive. Postal voters are also being encouraged to deliver their ballots papers to the embassy to ensure they get counted. This is in France, I dont know about elsewhere in the world.

    I have been watching the election campaign from afar. I am mystified that these “teal” candidates seem to be blindly accepted as independent by the media, when they are overtly or brazenly funded by millionaires. In which universe do people retain their independence when their political career is paid for by someone else? Why would anyone trust these millionaires to do anything but make themselves richer?

    Do any South Australians remember when the Burnside council was loaded with people funded by a shonky property developer (is there any other sort?). That ended badly, although, for some reason we still cant see the report on just how corrupt this council was (and probably still is).

    At least Clive Palmer registered a political party, and even named it after himself, so whether you like him or his party or not, it’s clear who is pulling the strings.

    200

    • #
      PeterS

      Yes, there are a lot of independent candidates who are part of the Climate 200 club. Their missions statement is “Australia’s political system is too broken to tackle climate change, and big polluters are determined to keep it that way. But we have a plan.” Yes they indeed have a plan – the same plan as that of the Greens. If they have their way Australia will be in ruins in a matter of years. There are several real independents who are worth supporting as they vigorously oppose the Climate 200 and net zero emissions agendas.

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      David

      I’m in Greece. Left before the voting papers were finalised so wasn’t able to vote and didn’t fancy going all my way to Athens to vote. Yes it’s legal to not vote overseas. Surely it’s time for on line voting systems?

      68

      • #
        Broadie

        Only an fool would hope that the mouse was put in charge of the cheese.

        Pen and paper ballots run by your local community dilutes the central control of the un-elected elites. Not perfect, not efficient but has a greater chance for scrutiny.

        210

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        No, digital is dodgy, we need vote in person, with passport.

        The embassies should made to enable voting overseas.

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        • #
          MichaelinBrisbane

          I agree we need to vote in person, rather than on line, to avoid the possibility of hacking as we have seen in the 2020 elections in USA.
          However, there is nothing to stop one going from booth to booth and voting multiple times, but there should be.
          (After the election has been decided you might be hauled up to explain yourself, but your response can be “It wasn’t me.”)
          As they cross you off in the register there should be a way of having you crossed off the registers at all the other booths at the same time. This can be done with our modern technology.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      James we have the major parties Labor, Liberal, National, Greens and with independents there’s freedom parties created from the draconian covid measures from government and the protests that continues, there’s a great site called Put the Majors Last https://majorslast.com/ that gives a good overview of voting correctly to achieve the result you want, the best part is the links to all parties and candidates for each state and electorate but I always encourage further research into parties your not sure of as some are stooges for the Majors.

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    • #
      Strop

      shonky property developer (is there any other sort?)

      Having worked in the land development industry for over 30 years I’d say yes, there is a another sort. From my experience the vast majority in land development do the right thing.

      60

      • #
        ozfred

        How much has the cost of “property development” under “improved government rules” contributed to the cost of new homes?

        30

        • #
          TedM

          “How much has the cost of “property development” under “improved government rules” contributed to the cost of new homes?” And building regulations.

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        • #
          Strop

          I’m in the land development side of property development, so can’t advise on house building costs. But for buying a block of land to build on, I think the market supply/demand drives the cost more than any govt interference.
          Typical suburban lot say 350-400m2, costs approx $120k to develop. Of which $40k is govt infrastructure levies and authority charges. If the govt halved or doubled those charges the price of a lot wouldn’t really change if people cant afford to pay more. Developers will always charge the maximum. What that affects is how much a developer will pay the farmer for the land. Discounting only comes in when sales are slow, but demand has been and is strong.
          i.e. Block of land selling for $360k. Development costs $120, land purchase off farmer costs $120k, developer profit $120k.
          If govt fees doubled, lots stay at $360k, development cost still $120k, farmer land value drops to $80k, developer profit still $120k. Competition for developable land amongst developers will then have the developer start to juggle the profit margin with their farm purchase price.

          10

      • #
        James Murphy

        Ok Strop, point taken!

        00

  • #
    Vlad the Impaler

    Prescient:

    “Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles.”

    — — Fyodor Mihkailovitch Dostoevsky

    Sent to me by a long-time acquaintance.

    Vlad

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  • #
    Damo

    Has anyone tried typing 2000 mules into Google?

    20

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    Simon

    An interesting article on why COVID-19 deaths in Australian were 1/10th that of the US. The key reason is that Australians had more trust in institutions, Government, scientists, and themselves. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/15/world/australia/covid-deaths.html

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    • #
      Robert Swan

      But what’s really amazing is that some Australians still trust institutions, government and scientists.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Not really amazing. Just people who are ignorant or on the side of said institutions, government and scientists. What’s truly amazing is how many who are not on the side of said institutions, government and scientists, ignore them as though it’s not a problem or they don’t exist when in fact it’s a huge problem and the direct cause of a lot of our critical issues we are facing today and will continue to face until we all wake up.

        40

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Wow, did you know during the same period that 97% of incarcerated inmates didn’t get injured in motor vehicle accidents?

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    • #
      b.nice

      What it does show is that the NY Times doesn’t have a clue.

      130

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Hilarious.
      Are there any occupants left in New York’s nursing homes which, pre_covid, were housing tens of thousands of people over 80 who were less than 2 years from the end?

      140

      • #
        OldOzzie

        People Who Pushed Idea of Universal Vaccination Are ‘Guilty of Crimes Against Humanity’: Former Pfizer VP

        Former Pfizer VP Michael Yeadon maintains that since the infection fatality ratio of COVID-19 has not been high, the vaccines should not have been mandated.

        Moreover, he heavily blasted the corporate media mantras that designate these as safe, effective, and necessary to end the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) virus pandemic.

        Yeadon is a big pharma veteran with 32 years in the industry. He worked as the head of allergy and respiratory research at Pfizer from 1995 to 2011 and is the former founder and CEO of Ziarco, a biotech company acquired by Novartis. Furthermore, he has a doctorate in respiratory pharmacology and holds a Double First Class Honors degree in biochemistry and toxicology.

        A shocking 1,223 deaths and 42,086 adverse events were reported to Pfizer from the first day of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine rollout on Dec. 1, 2020, to Feb. 28, 2021.

        “The worst flu season over the last decade is worse than [the threat] posed by this new virus,” Yeadon told The Epoch Times via email.

        “And what do we do in response to seasonal influenza? Well, nothing really, beyond offering—and not mandating—vaccines which aren’t much use.”

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        The tragedy of all those 80 yr olds is not that they died a little early but that they alone, not having seen kids or grand kids.

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    • #
      Forrest Gardener

      Simon, in the immortal words of John McEnroe you cannot be serious.

      Who pays you to be here?

      170

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        He gets $2 for every red tick.
        While I country recently changed their currency to blockchain.

        30

    • #
      Strop

      The United States and Australia share similar demographics, but their pandemic death rates point to very different cultures of trust.

      Dozens of interviews, along with survey data and scientific studies from around the world, point to a lifesaving trait that Australians displayed from the top of government to the hospital floor, and that Americans have shown they lack: trust, in science and institutions, but especially in one another.

      In global surveys, Australians were more likely than Americans to agree that “most people can be trusted” — a major factor, researchers found, in getting people to change their behavior for the common good to combat Covid, by reducing their movements, wearing masks and getting vaccinated. Partly because of that compliance, which kept the virus more in check, Australia’s economy has grown faster than America’s through the pandemic.

      Australians didn’t modify their behaviour for the “common good” because of trust. Australians modified their behavior through state government authoritarian force and threat, and a fear campaign. We weren’t given the opportunity to trust each other and the state governments showed a complete lack of trust in people to do “the right thing”. If trust existed between the government and the people then lockdowns wouldn’t have been needed. Advice would simply have been issued, people could have trusted it, and the government could have trusted the people to do the “right thing”. Lockdowns are the epitome of a lack of trust.

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    • #
      R.B

      There is some much wrong with what is blatant propaganda rather than analysis. Trump was derided by the NYT and MSM for closing borders about the same time as Australia. What does this analysis find “President Donald J. Trump downplayed the risk. “We think it’s going to have a very good ending for us,” he said.” Tasking one quote that was meant to buoy spirits to imply that it wasn’t taken seriously and ignoring everything that was done. And they ignore NY fiasco. More than a third of NY’s deaths occurred during April of 2020.

      30

    • #
      yarpos

      How to compare two numbers of dubious authenticity produced over rwo countries by assorted national and State governments with their own agendas and practices. Pinch of salt comes to mind.

      30

    • #
      KP

      “The key reason is that Australians had more trust in institutions, Government, scientists,”

      lol! Gullible lot… Just slaves to the State…

      I’d say the main reason was the difference in diet, its very noticeable any time you compare the Yanks to almost anywhere else in the world, as we have the chance to buy nutritious food at the supermarket. Of course, trapped in an old age home eating the cheapest rubbish they can serve up won’t do you any favours..

      Second would be the 35 vaccines Americans get poisoned with as children, that probably ruins their immune system for life.

      ..and third would be their whole indoor lifestyle stuck in apartments with mass-produced take-aways and just the occasional walk in the park to get outdoors.

      Its really comparing battery hens to old-fashioned farmyard chickens.

      00

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      PeterS

      It needs a third picture; it’s currently Putin’s turn to be “king”. For how long? Time will tell.

      40

  • #
    OldOzzie

    Sunday Talks, Finland President Sauli Niinistö Indicates a Global Cleaving Behind Decision to Join NATO

    May 15, 2022 – Sundance

    BASELINE – Boil all international and geopolitical issues down to their common denominator and everything, E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G., every issue, every discussion, every policy, every position, everything -all of it- circles around economics. Everything is secondary to the underlying economics of every single issue. Power or weakness, famine or war, peace or conflict, master or servant, culture or crisis, growth or collapse, the entirety of everything -including the foundation of freedom- centers around the economics. There are trillions at stake.

    In this interview Finland’s President Sauli Niinistö made some very interesting remarks when asked about his decision to reverse the long-established geopolitical position of Finland and join the “western alliance,” vis-a-vis NATO.

    Listen carefully [01:44] when President Niinistö explains why. Niinistö explains he did not, and does not, consider Russia a threat; however, “what we see now, Europe, the world, is more divided. There’s not very much room for ‘non-aligned,’ in-between. So that was also what we are thinking.” WATCH:

    In March of this year CTH noted, “this intentional global cleaving, using the opportunity created by the Ukraine crisis, is going to be the major story of this year. This global splitting can be looked at in multiple ways, but the overarching story is the ramifications of two global trade relationships.”

    Two world groupings. One group, oil-based energy (traditional, grey on map below), and one group GREEN energy (the build back better plan, yellow on map). It is not accidental these two groups hold similar internal geopolitical views and perspectives, hence, their alignment or lack thereof with the sanctions against Russia.

    40

  • #
    OldOzzie

    The Australian – Federal election results – not paywalled

    SuperVoter – 2022 Election – 2019 Election – Polling

    63 Coalition. 80 Labor – Labor WINS

    Called Seats – Polling
    Labor – 80
    Coalition – 63
    Other – 7
    Greens – 1
    In doubt- 0

    Under their Polling in my Electorate Warringah Zali Steggall wins unfortunately

    70

    • #
      Brenda Spence

      Interesting. Lets just cancel the election and save a lot of money.

      Doex publishing these results influence the outcome?

      Unfortunately the explanation for these conclusions is paywalled!

      100

  • #
    Custer Van Cleef

    Isn’t it lucky we have the kindly, benign folks at the WEF to decide what’s best for us, and then set in motion a strategy to herd us in the “chosen” direction… /sarc

    The Vaccine Cajolers, Part 5: Nudging and Eavesdropping

    “The World Economic Forum (WEF) provided the Vaccine Confidence Project with research assistance to support its Covid vaccination work. In the six months from November 2020, NetBase Quid technology was used to ‘scrape’ online forums and social media for conversations about vaccines “to get a deep understanding of the obstacles to vaccine adoption, barriers to building trust and the communication strategies that move people to action”.

    “No fewer than 66 million conversations were identified and analysed to provide insights on how to target communications for Covid vaccines. It enabled a market segmentation of messaging, microtargeting different messages for different audiences.”

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  • #

    KK and mods… here is another weird email link in a user , this time hotmail

    https://joannenova.com.au/2022/05/weekend-unthreaded-411/#comment-2547774

    [Thanks Gee Aye, and yes it was dodgy so I’ve removed it.]AD

    42

  • #
    OldOzzie

    Kiwi crime capers

    New Zealand teeters on lawlessness

    In the face of such encouragement, it’s hardly surprising that New Zealand gang numbers have spiralled. Police data shows that gang membership doubled between 2016 and 2021, from 4,400 to more than 8,000. Eighteen recognised gangs were listed in Auckland alone.

    What’s caused the surge in crime? A key factor is ‘501’ deportees: career criminals born in New Zealand who in many cases spent virtually their entire lives in Australia but have now been dumped back in the country of their birth. They have not only boosted the ranks of New Zealand gangs but upped the ante in terms of violence and the scale of criminal activity. Thanks, Australia.

    60

    • #
      Hanrahan

      I’d assume tats are mandatory in the gangs.

      60

    • #
      el+gordo

      NZ criminals in Oz jails are being deported to serve out their times in NZ prisons. This won’t increase violence on the streets of Auckland or the increase in gang numbers.

      30

      • #
        mawm

        They don’t seem to be serving time here. The violence, especially gun violence, and the number of gangs has increased phenomenally.

        40

        • #
          el+gordo

          Thanks, you’re right, this is Morrison’s doing. Very unchristian and draconian.

          01

          • #
            Hanrahan

            How? Crime laws and policing are STATE issues.

            10

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Niu Zeeland should never have let criminally inclined persons come to Australia in the first place; and that’s not a reflection on New Zealanders, just the management over there who bought votes with lenient sentences.

            How many of those repatriated had not declared previous convictions in NZ?

            10

    • #
      OldOzzie

      Meanwhile in Sydney

      Big Daily Mail article on the drug gang shootings and “postcode gangs” in Sydney.

      List down the end of the 13 dead since August 2020. The names all have the same ethnic spellings. Very strange.

      70

      • #
        el+gordo

        Post code rivalry, wogs killing wogs. I was raised in Greenacre and can say without fear of contradiction that the suburb is unrecognisable from my youthful days.

        50

    • #
      Strop

      Has there been a corresponding drop in gangs/crime in Aus due to deportation?

      10

  • #
    OldOzzie

    China is restricting citizens from ‘nonessential’ travel overseas to stop importing COVID

    But this week China broadened the scope of its lockdown polices, threatening to keep all of China in some sort of national detention.

    On Thursday, China’s National Immigration Administration (NIA) announced it would “strictly restrict nonessential departure of Chinese citizens” from the country in order to “strengthen disease control and prevention” across China—essentially grounding Chinese tourists from flight.

    Preventing outbound flights won’t help China curtail Omicron clusters already in the country. China reported 7,426 cases Thursday, down from a mid-April peak of over 33,000 daily cases. In Shanghai, residents are enduring their seventh week of citywide lockdown, which has resulted in food shortages, avoidable deaths, supply-chain disruption, and general frustration. In Beijing, residents are panic buying groceries as rumors swirl that the capital may enter a citywide lockdown, too.

    China has clamped down on the international mobility of its citizens before. Nine months ago, the NIA announced it would limit passport renewals and issuance to people who need to travel overseas for study or business.

    The NIA reiterated its stance on limiting passport issuances Thursday. On social media, some users claim that airport staff in Guangzhou recently clipped the corners off their passports when they arrived back in the country, invalidating the passport. The NIA denied those reports to Reuters, on Friday.

    Meanwhile – Run! The door of China is closing/The government blocks the outflow of capital, cutting passports

    50

  • #
    Honk R Smith

    More American political clown show fun …
    ‘Ultra’ MAGA, they actually paid for it.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10817231/Biden-hired-woke-think-tank-come-ultra-MAGA-slur-hes-using-target-GOP.html

    80

  • #
    another ian

    Read before leaping on “Belt and Road”

    “Ian Cumming: Before there is too much admiration, the real background story of Kingston Chinese plant”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2022/05/15/this-is-the-time-at-sda-when-we-refresh-our-memories/

    10

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    R.B

    I just got an email from Academia.com asking if I wrote a 2013 paper. My name, English first name and Croatian surname. Not very common with only 7 others in Linkedin (possibly a few duplicates), none having the relevant background. The paper was written in Indonesian and, according to an online translation, it was on criminal pornography in Islam.

    Does anyone know of any scam?

    10

    • #

      No, academia.edu (not.com though they own that domain) is maybe not a scam but it is a for profit group that would not qualify for “.edu” under current domain rules. Research gate is more accepted for most of its functionality.

      btw well done with your publication.

      41

      • #
        R.B

        I’ve signed up and added real papers to my account. I’m not concerned about them. They merely found the paper.

        10

        • #

          real papers that are yours I hope 🙂

          01

          • #
            R.B.

            Academia.edu had sent me a an email notifying me of another paper that had a similar title as one that I was a coauthor of but didn’t add to my account. The trouble with it was that the one they notified me of had just my name as author and written years almost 10 years later.

            00

  • #
    another ian

    More Twitter

    “Sunday Talks, Bartiromo Interviews Nunes and Patel About Musk and Twitter
    May 15, 2022 | Sundance | 47 Comments”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/05/15/sunday-talks-bartiromo-interviews-nunes-and-patel-about-musk-and-twitter/

    Sounds like Musk is asking what might be very awkward questions

    10

  • #
    OldOzzie

    Can anyone help out by explaining this spike in young people’s deaths?

    Monday, 16 May 2022

    From The Australian’s Adam Creighton:

    Any ideas what caused this massive death spike among younger Americans in Q3 2021?

    Source: Society of Actuaries

    https://soa.org/48ff80/globalassets/assets/files/resources/research-report/2022/group-life-covid-19-mortality.pdf

    50

  • #
    John Connor II

    Oliver Cromwell’s speech to parliament

    On April 20, 1653, Oliver Cromwell came to the English parliament and gave a brief speech to his country’s assembled leaders. In that speech, he condemned their self-seeking, greed, corruption, trickery, thievery, and venality. He looked them in the eyes and told them the truth about how they had cynically sold out the country and the people whose interests and well-being they were tasked with protecting.

    It is striking how accurately Cromwell’s words apply to today’s Western elites. Selfish, egotistical, and rapacious, all they care about is how to enrich themselves at the expense of common people whom they shamelessly manipulate and fleece in their insatiable quest for ever more wealth and power.

    It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice. You are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government. You are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money. Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess?

    You have no more religion than my horse. Gold is your God. Which of you have not bartered your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth? You sordid prostitutes. Have you not defiled this sacred place, and turned the Lord’s temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices?

    You are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance.
    Your country therefore calls upon me to cleanse this Augean stable, by putting a final period to your iniquitous proceedings in this House; and which by God’s help, and the strength he has given me, I am now come to do.

    I command you therefore, upon the peril of your lives, to depart immediately out of this place. Go, get you out! Make haste! You venal slaves be gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!

    Nothing ever changes.
    This election time, like all those preceding it, is primarily comprised of advertising criticising the opposition (a BAD business practice anytime) because the advertising party has NO real-world viable policies of their own.
    In essence they’re the equivalent of trolls, criticising endlessly without providing intelligent input or solutions.
    Sack them all, arrest & jail them all or execute them all (bring back capital punishment) for their crimes.
    If not, as WILL now happen, history will repeat but this time it will be far worse due to the perfect storm of events.

    30

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      A great piece; and we want our seven and a quarter tonnes of gold returned to the treasury from its current resting place in the Great Big Barrier Reef Foundation vault.

      Malcolm: please come home from New York, we’d like to talk to you.

      KK

      20

    • #
      MrGrimNasty

      I always remember what the Earl of Manchester said (in the film anyway).

      “Much has been said in this House about the so-called inequity of certain members being financially involved in national projects. Members have ascribed to this state of affairs dark and sinister motives. I say if we in Parliament cannot gain from ruling the country there’s really very little point in our being here at all.”

      20

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    OldOzzie

    Tonga eruption was biggest explosion ever recorded, dwarfing nuclear blasts

    The volcanic eruption in Tonga was the biggest explosion ever recorded by modern sensors.

    It was so powerful, the force lifted cloud over Britain and generated small tsunamis in the Mediterranean Sea.

    Waves from the volcano blast travelled around the globe four times.

    A pair of research papers published in the journal Science have reviewed data and found the enormous eruption of the underwater volcano at Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha’apai in January was far bigger than any 20th century volcanic event.

    The papers also compared it to atom bomb tests conducted after World War II and found they were dwarfed by the sheer magnitude of the blast.

    Only the Krakatoa eruption of 1883 – which is thought to have claimed more than 30,000 lives – rivalled the atmospheric disturbance produced.

    “Tonga was a truly global event, just as Krakatoa was, but we’ve now got all these geophysical observation systems and they recorded something that was really unprecedented in the modern data,” Dr Robin Matoza, from the University of California, Santa Barbara, told BBC News.

    While Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha’apai’s explosion, and subsequent ash cloud and tsunamis, were not nearly as catastrophic, its effects on those tens of thousands of kilometres away surprised even scientists.

    The papers discuss at length a phenomenon called Lamb waves – essentially a form of a shock wave – named after the early 20th century mathematician Horace Lamb.

    They are energetic waves in the air that travel at the speed of sound and are able to maintain their shape along a path guided by the surface of the planet.

    Scientists found Lamb wave pulses produced by the Tonga eruption were seen to circle the Earth at least four times.

    In Reading, England, more than 16,000 kilometres from Tonga, the pulses began arriving about 14 hours after Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha’apai’s eruption and immediately lifted the clouds.

    “At the time, we had a laser cloud-base recorder looking at the cloud base and as the wave went through the cloud was perturbed,” Professor Giles Harrison, an atmospheric physicist at the University of Reading and co-author on one of the papers, told the BBC.

    “If ever you wanted evidence that the atmosphere is a remarkably interconnected thing, this was it. And what happens on one side of the planet can propagate around to the other side at the speed of sound.”

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      Graeme#4

      Shortly after the eruption, a great video was produced, showing seismic measuring stations in Japan and the U.S. registering the initial shock wave as it passed through. Think it was mentioned here. Fascinating.

      20

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    John Connor II

    Biden laptop email now online and searchable.

    https://bidenlaptopemails.com/

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      OldOzzie

      Biden Laptop Emails

      Here are the 128k emails from the Biden Laptop, which is a modern Rosetta Stone of white and blue collar crime under the patina of “the Delaware Way.” Prior to the discovery of the Rosetta Stone, a number of ancient languages were mere gibberish and hash marks. Similarly, the emails on the Biden Laptop illuminated previously convoluted webs of the people you see leading the charge for global governance; truly, the emails can be considered a translation tool for Open-Source Intelligence (OSINT) gathering.

      80

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    Doc

    Could anyone enlighten me about ‘Craig Mitchell’.

    In last weekend’s ‘Weekend Australian’ he took out a full 2page (pages31-32) centrefold advertisement, writing on the history of Earth’s climate and factors controlling climate. It would have cost a fortune but was written from his own perspective, with occasional in-my-opinions.
    He seemed to draw from a ‘New Science’journal in part and has directions to download other informatiom. Qualifications? I tried to look him up but failed.

    20

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    Doc

    Thanks for the replies. The last part of it tapered off into population control, so could have been an environmentalist movement without accepting the AGW theory. Seemed a lot of cost without a defined objective.

    10