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Vaccines, not the magic bullet the advertisers claim

Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries in the world, but having dropped restrictions, they are picking them up again only one month later as the Delta variant spreads.

In Tel Aviv, 75 students got infected at one party from a vaccinated person who had caught the virus from another vaccinated person. And though the UK data is better than the Israeli data, Kate Middleton, the Duchess of Cambridge, has had both of her vaccine doses but still has to self isolate for two weeks due to a “near exposure”. How confident are the UK health experts? Not very. With the UK only weeks away from the so-called Freedom day, will double vaxed people have to self isolate for two weeks each time they are exposed?

This belies the key point about “getting vaxed for the nation”. If being vaccinated is about keeping you out of hospital, not so much about infecting your friends, then getting vaxed is more for self protection. The cost-benefit equation might look good for high risk people, but changes dramatically for healthy young people. We need to know how much vaccination slows transmission yet it’s barely a part of the national conversation.

A month is a long time in pandemic world

Coronavirus-vaccine. Photo

Photo by Hakan Nural on Unsplash

In May the Pfizer vaccine was working respectably well against Covid cases in Israel, and the government relaxed the rules. Then the Delta strain arrived with plodding predictability, and suddenly the efficacy against infection fell from 94% to 63%. (Though the numbers are small).

Like every other country it arrived in, the Delta variant (formerly known as the Indian double-mutant) rapidly outpaced the other variants, and is now responsible for 9 out of 10 cases of Covid in Israel.

On the plus side, the Pfizer vaccine was 98% effective against being hospitalized by the UK Alpha strain, and it’s still 93% effective against the Delta strain. On the down side, the next mutants are coming. They might be nicer, but they might not.

The scandalous risks with leaky vaccines

With vaccines that are this leaky, we’re running the risk of creating nastier variants through a process called “immune escape”. That’s the selection path that converted a 1% chicken killer called Marek’s disease into a 100% killer. It took decades to do that, but it’s not a road we want to travel. The post I wrote on the danger of leaky vaccines was one of the most important on this site (in case you missed it).  If you know where to look, you’ll find experts often talk in medical code about “immune escape” but rarely spell out how bad this could be.

The solution is so obvious we already did it years ago: use antivirals.

Antivirals are the antibiotics of the viral world. When we couldn’t find a vaccine for AIDS, we used a cocktail of antivirals. We’ve already got a suite of candidates against Covid: like Ivermectin, HCQ, EXO-CD24, Bromhexine (cough syrup), Budesonide (used against asthma). Not to mention all the vitamins and minerals that might give us a boost too like Vitamin D, C, B6, B12, etc, etc.

If we want to stop lockdowns, we need to get antivirals approved and stop the new mutants coming in until we do. Unlike leaky vaccines, antivirals should also prevent the development of nastier mutants.

Do antivirals stop most vaccinees catching and leaking the virus? Why the heck don’t we know that already? Looks like someone is afraid the trials will show the antivirals work so well we don’t need vaccines.

h/t Serp, Raving, Ian. Dave B.

So much for the mass speedy vaccination in Israel

Officials to weigh reimposing some virus restrictions as Delta variant spreads

The Times of Israel, July 3, 2021

75 pupils contract COVID-19 from a vaccinated person at school party in Tel Aviv; former Health Ministry deputy director calls to bring back ‘Green Pass’ system

This week, at least 75 high school pupils were confirmed to have contracted the virus at a Tel Aviv end-of-year party, after a student was infected by a vaccinated relative. That relative contracted the virus from another vaccinated individual who had recently returned from London, according to Channel 13 news.

Unfortunately Times of Israel was slightly ambiguous. Was the superspreader at the party vaccinated, or were they a student who was infected by a vaccinated person a day or two earlier? This matters. Can vaccinated people still be superspreaders? We need to know!

A whole vaccination campaign that bought four weeks of freedom?

The Times of Israel, July 3, 2021

Former Health Ministry deputy director-general Itamar Grotto said the country should consider returning to the “Green Pass” system that differentiates between vaccinated and non-vaccinated citizens regarding access to certain venues and activities.

The Health Ministry expects daily coronavirus diagnoses to jump to 500-600 next week, according to media reports Wednesday.

According to the ministry, over 5.62 million people — out of Israel’s population of more than 9.3 million — have gotten at least one vaccine shot. Of those, close to 5.2 million received a second dose.

We’re in an arms race with an inanimate chemical code

Coronavirus structure

Image: Scientific Animations

The UK has a lot more data than Israel, and in the UK Pfizer has only fallen from 90 to 80% efficacy at stopping symptomatic infection. The UK data is probably much closer to the truth than Israel’s is, but the point that matters is the trend. With each mutation we can expect the vaccines to get less effective. We’re in an arms race with an inanimate chemical code that is running experiments currently in 11 million bodies (plus cats, ferrets, mink and any other mammal it can infect). Will we ever catch up? Each new vaccine still needs time to be developed and tested. Even in the experimental mRNA vaccines, where substituting snippets of code can be done faster, there is still a need to test to make sure the antibody response does not trigger an autoimmune disease, or accelerate the next infection, or send the body off making less effective antibodies.

How long does vaccine protection last …?

Why is Israel as low as 63%? As usual in biology, there are many possibilities: the people may have different genes, diets, deficiencies, past infections, and it may be a different age group infected. The vaccines were given six months ago to some people in Israel. One expert in Israel wonders if they are already starting to wear off?

Israel was one of the fastest countries to vaccinate, with 60% of the population had already had one dose by the end of March. And 80% of adults having 2 doses now.  Note that 80% of adults is not 80% of the population. The OWID data suggests hardly any vaccines have been given in Israel in the last two months. Hmm. That’s another question. Why — we wonder did vaccinations hit “a wall”?

For the record, Israel used the Pfizer vaccine initially, as well as  Astra Zenica and Moderna.

If two rounds don’t work, let’s do three?

The former Israeli Prime Minister wants to rush in the third round of booster shots:

Netanyahu said in a video released on his social media channels that “from conversations I’ve had with some of the best experts in the world, I believe the third vaccine [dose] should be given to the over-50 population starting in August, in order to finish the task by the end of September.”

He said that no one currently knows when a drop in immunity will leave the population susceptible to infection once again.

If any lives actually mattered to our health authorities they’d be reassessing the antivirals and giving people and their doctors the choice of medications instead of pushing and pumping only one solution in a non-stop advertising campaign.

 

9.6 out of 10 based on 88 ratings

191 comments to Vaccines, not the magic bullet the advertisers claim

  • #

    According to “HAARETZ” quoting the director general of the health ministry 40 to 50 percent of the outbreak is among the vaccinated. They also quote a senior Pfizer official: “The effectivity of the vaccine in preventing infection and transmission is still unclear.”
    To me that 40 to 50 percent makes it reasonably clear.
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-covid-delta-variant-two-month-record-masks-indoors-1.9937892

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  • #
    Ronin

    Delta is with us, Lambda is on the way, each variation of the virus weakens the response of the vaccine, if it was any use in the first place, so now we are told a third jab is necessary.

    351

    • #
      Jojodogfacedboy

      You know what is so sad, my relatives already say okay let’s get another shot.

      My take so far…
      This supposed vaccination was created by the first version of the Covid(flu) and has mutated a multiple times as everyone is still getting the shots from the first version.
      My spider sense says, no wonder this vaccination doesn’t work and will fail as people really have no coverage. Just the fake confidence that our governments say we will get back to normal.

      I don’t see that happening with our current governments loving lockdowns ‘to control the spread’.

      391

    • #
      Geoff Croker

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLwn3CML0DQ

      UK strategy has changed to herd immunity.

      It’s a realization that the vaccines will not work beyond 6 months. So the strategy is to go for herd immunity now when less people will get seriously sick.

      We can expect our Australian State Health csars to follow the same strategy soon. Time to get your POA and will done if you have any comorbidities, are over 70 or under 1.

      Antivirals, Vitamin D etc remain non-mainstream. They would not reward government parasites.

      The new strategy is as always “about the money and who gets it”. The BIG Print Run, as agreed by the Federal Reserve in March 2020, only lasts till the end of September 2021.

      Throughout the oncoming mess we will be all told that the Management of the virus has “improved”. They are all running out of free money. Different marketing, same Management.

      The only good news is when the money runs out, Guv will be forced to authorise HCQ, Ivermectin, etc because its cheap. No doubt we will see various mixtures of common anti-virals get patents and loads of marketing to pray on boomer fear and negate government ineptitude.

      280

      • #
        ColA

        I herd their ABC RN this morning saying that we need to open up business and boarders and use Vax Passports but the dumbarses forgot to mention that the vaccine does not stop you carrying or passing on the China Covid so it’s totally usless in stopping the spread. Same old ABC only 1/2 the story, only what they want you to believe.

        Mean while in Indonesia they are getting 30,000 + detections per day and 1,000 deaths INCLUDING children (admittedly with complications) fortunately they have someone there who is not bent by big pharm.
        https://trialsitenews.com/ivermectin-authorized-in-indonesia-as-pharma-issued-license-for-production-to-battle-covid-19/
        lets hope they get it out quickly and it works – with 400 million they will be busy!

        70

      • #
        ColA

        And the Converstaion the rag from our intelegencia have this https://theconversation.com/yes-you-can-still-get-covid-after-being-vaccinated-but-youre-unlikely-to-get-as-sick-163870 where right at the end of the guff you get this little gem! (I had to look hard for it!)

        There is always a chance a vaccinated person could pass the virus onto a non-vaccinated person without having symptoms themselves.

        But vaccinated people who develop COVID-19 will likely have a lower viral load than unvaccinated people, meaning they’re less likely to spread the virus.

        One study estimated those who were vaccinated with either Pfizer or AstraZeneca were 50% less likely to pass it on to an unvaccinated household contact than someone who wasn’t vaccinated. This transmission will likely reduce again if both household members are vaccinated.

        20

        • #

          Thanks! It would be good to get sources and corroboration, but at least there are a couple of references now of the 50% figure. The medico-swamp will still suggests vaccines are the only way, they will just change the goal posts.

          80

          • #
            Geoff Croker

            An extremely good test for comparing an anti-viral versus a vaccine.

            Take HCQ or Ivermectin when you have Covid and measure the reduction in viral load and the chance of passing the virus on.

            The results are going to be stark. Otherwise the vaccine companies would be promoting the failure of antivirals themselves.

            50

            • #
              Epicurious

              This same site published an item on the very effective use of Ivermectin in Mexico. If the data are correct then its a no brainer. Why is our government(s) lying to us, why are the media lying to us? Answer these questions and we will have the cause of this case-demic.

              20

    • #
      Yonason

      Pretty clear to me, too.

      The current vaccines for this virus are “non-sterilizing,” which means the resistant mutants are primarily selected for in the vaccinated, NOT the un-vaccinated The more vaccinated, the more resistant strains – like when antibiotics are overused, resulting in the emergence of dangerous resistant strains.

      Everything the authorities and “experts” are telling us to do is based on biology that’s known to be false.
      https://m.twitch.tv/videos/1078788070
      He also explains there why the current vaccines provide no protection against the variants.

      And then there’s the damage the vaccine itself probably causes, but I’ll leave that for another time.

      130

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Liked the antibiotics analogy.
        And all the rest 🙂

        60

        • #
          Yonason

          Thanks, Keith. I think if the antibiotics analogy were used, more people might be quicker to grasp that aspect of the many problems with this virus.

          70

  • #
    Simon

    Vaccinations are the best hope we have of life returning to normal. We need to vaccinate as much of the population as possible to minimise the risk of leaky viruses or further mutation. Antivirals won’t eliminate the virus, they will just help ease the symptoms. Viruses will likely adapt faster to an antiviral than a vaccine.

    490

    • #

      Elimination requires the quarantine to be moved out of land the locked cruise ships, hotels. Vaccination experimentation on us is not required. All that is needed is to keep the growth rate below 1 until community spread ceases again like before all the previous quarantine failures. The antivirals will add speed to how it has been done already. Improved quarantine can keep it out. Antivirals may shorten quarantine. Especially if they are given during or before the incoming travel.

      152

      • #

        Ooops should read “out of the land locked cruise ships, hotels.

        71

        • #
          OldOzzie

          Given at the moment we are using Hotels for Quarantine for International arrivals and the current Sydney Lockdown was started by a Airport Limo Driver transporting International Aircrew to Hotels in Sydney – why not just take over the Rydges Sydney Airport Hotel 8 Arrivals Court, Sydney International Airport NSW 2020 and put all International Arrivals, at least Aircrew, in there.

          Rydges Sydney Airport takes hospitality to new heights. Our Sydney airport accommodation is located at the Sydney International Terminal and just 181 steps to the check-in counters, a short 10-minute journey to the domestic airport and less than 15 minutes to Sydney’s city centre.

          50

          • #

            One of the problems with that is right here “the current Sydney Lockdown”.
            Shift the incoming destination out of capital cities and the lockdowns are also shifted out of capital cities should an outbreak occur.

            Another is that the infected are still being locked up with the infected. In most other parts of the country space is not so rare that cabins, caravans or motorhomes etc could not be spaced well apart. Why lock the infected up with the uninfected? Bearing in mind that you don’t know who has it and who does not. Keeping them apart from each other and deleting the corridor ends the problem.

            61

            • #
              OldOzzie

              Agreed summed up perfectly

              In most other parts of the country space is not so rare that cabins, caravans or motorhomes etc could not be spaced well apart.

              40

    • #
      Ronin

      They don’t seem to have helped the Duchess of Cambridge.

      240

      • #
        David A

        Antivirals and natural exposure T cell heard immunity are both more broad scope effective against the wuflu then risky failing temporary vaccines. ( exception; elderly with weak immune systems)

        This could have easily been a mild event for the world. Political ideology has killed millions and destroyed economies worldwide, and lowered the quality of life for the global population.

        40

    • #
      clarence.t

      Line up with all the other guinea pigs/sheeple.

      Its that simple, Simon.

      401

    • #

      Vaccines are closing borders. Brits are not able to go to EU countries if they were vaxed with covishield because the vaccines do not appear to be working.
      https://www.thelocal.fr/20210705/can-brits-vaccinated-with-astrazenecas-indian-produced-covishield-jab-come-to-france/
      The US does not recognise AZ.
      https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/vaccines/australians-could-need-a-third-jab-as-speculation-mounts-over-international-approval-of-astrazeneca-vaccine-for-travellers-c-3327149
      Borders to New Zealand just reopened from Australia where elimination has worked as usual without vaccines.

      201

      • #
        Phil O'Sophical

        “Vaccines are closing borders.”

        Politicians are closing borders.

        Fixed it for you.

        250

        • #

          “Trump: US Has ‘Shut Down’ Coronavirus Coming in From China
          By VOA News
          February 02, 2020 08:14 PM”

          If it had been done earlier without a fight the whole world would have been better off.

          55

    • #
      Tel

      Wrong.

      The COVID vaccine temporarily suppresses the symptoms, until the virus mutates sufficiently to get around it.

      All the other options are broader and better … such as Vitamin D, Ivermectin, Zinc, and natural immunity for those people (almost everyone) not in the at-risk groups.

      This vaccine is kind of like the flu-vax which offers a little bit of protection, for a short while. The vaccine developers are always lagging behind the virus, and the benefit of antibodies … although not insignificant … is narrowly limited to a certain spike protein. That’s why he variants keep popping up.

      The vaccine is only of benefit to old people, and those likely to die if they catch this.

      412

      • #

        Did not seem to work out for prince Philip.

        52

        • #
          GD

          We’ll never know, but I had that thought at that time. He was on the way out, but why did they have to dose him with toxins designed to turn off his immune system?

          130

          • #
            Epicurious

            “why did they have to dose him with toxins designed to turn off his immune system?” What is the basis of this comment? Is there some evidence of any introduction of toxins?

            20

    • #
      Phil O'Sophical

      “Vaccinations are the best hope we have of life returning to normal.”

      If the gene shots are anything like as toxic as many supremely qualified individuals believe, normal is about a safe from where we will end up as it is possible to be.

      160

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Nonsense. Complete B*ll*cks.

      If these vaccines worked as advertised, how do you catch the virus from another vaccinated person?

      The whole thing is Emporers New Clothes.

      Its like they ask people to suspend common sense and believe a medical fairy story. Its the medical equivelent of climate change.

      As soon as the hysterical “just trust us” drum beat started, my BS radar started screaming…..

      And you wonder why confidence in the vaccines crashed in the USA?

      You might as well inject people with saline, for all the good they do.

      Dont forget, this wasnt about the vaccines, but about the infamous vaccine passports that create a medical apartheid.

      Interstingly, the unvaccinated who will become the untermunchen in the perverse and sadistic globalist new world order , will be the healthy ones.

      550

    • #

      As usual, Simple Simon Says…. 😀
      You have a problem. Simon, you are total missing comprehensive reading.
      The complete article tells it, nevertheless you come along telling everybody has to be “vaccinated” and tell further:

      Antivirals won’t eliminate the virus, they will just help ease the symptoms.

      Any idea, why antivirals are antivirals ? The actual known don’t kill the virus but prohibit its replication, something the actual “vaccines” just don’t.
      Just the delta variant was target of the successful Ivermectin treatment in India, not the “vaccines”.

      MExico will follow India with Ivermectin. And when looking at the numbers of Turkey,you see the succes of HCQ used from the beginning there.

      320

    • #
      Lucky

      Simon says:
      Two doses of the vax do not stop virus leaks, but three doses will work.
      If Simon is wrong, as is likely, he will blame it on the ‘reluctant’. The job of jabbing will be given to the police and maybe that security company Dan appointed in Vic.

      210

      • #
        GD

        The way police in Victoria have handled pregnant women walking in the park and then having a rest on a park bench fills me with alarm at what the Andrews government would inflict on citizens. Joe Biden’s recent announcement that they would go door-to-door if not everybody was vaccinated brings chills to my spine.

        260

    • #
      Simon

      A properly trained immune system will be far more likely to mop up all of a virus load than an antiviral. A antiviral requires the patient to be taking the medication over the correct duration. That’s not going to happen for everybody and the virus will have the opportunity to replicate.
      Remember Tamiflu? It was completely ineffective against H1N1 unless the patient started the course before the symptoms appeared and continued well past the abatement of the fever.

      130

      • #

        Tamiflu was as bad as Remdesivir, no value.
        And as H1N1 didn’t advance to a pandemy as foreseen, f.e. Germany had to buy millions of doses, just for the trash can 😀

        A antiviral requires the patient to be taking the medication over the correct duration. That’s not going to happen for everybody
        And not everybody has a properlsy trained immune system, because of what reason ever.
        So, Simple Simon, what try you to tell us ?

        120

        • #
          Simon

          Take the vaccine, it’s free and will do far more good than harm. You are endangering others if you do not.

          022

          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            You do know that the vaccine is killing people don’t you?
            And permanently crippling three times as many as it’s killing?

            And you are not qualified or in a position to tell someone else what they should do.

            170

          • #
            MP

            Mmmm free stuff.
            1 person who flew from the Philippines to Aus for medical help, died this year. He did not get it here.

            One!

            Otherwise GFYS

            50

          • #
            Epicurious

            And so said The Book of Simon 13.07 in the New Testament of the Church of Pharmacology. Simon, the name of one of my sons is obviously a name I have fondness for BUT Simon what you spruke is just plain wrong. Double entry book keeping requires us to look for the ‘other’ side. So please open your mind and go searching, not Googling, as that would limit the scope of truth.

            30

          • #

            The questions about harm of the “vaccines” are without real answer ’til today, I wouldn’t sign it.

            10

      • #
        Analitik

        A properly trained immune system will be far more likely to mop up all of a virus load than an antiviral.

        And the mRNA and adenovirus vector CoViD “vaccines” do not train the immune system properly since they do not present all of the virus for the immune system but rather a specific portion of a particular variant of the virus. Given this, the immune system can be improperly trained making it ineffectual against a different variant.

        Anti-virals assist the body to overcome the actual variant that infects the body so the immune system is trained against the full properties against the virus which gives broader immunity against further variants (since it is exposed to more than just the spike protein produced by these vaccines.

        So it’s a tossup whether being vaccinated will “mop up” the infection more quickly and with milder symptoms than taking anti-virals and those who recover from an actual infection will have superior immunity to those who have merely been vaccinated.

        10

    • #
      ando

      Return to normal, build back better, shut down small business, locked up like sheep, wear your muzzle or cop a beating, accumulate massive debt…zee great reset. All for a flu that most people need a dubious test to know if they have it or not! The socialists are putting us on a path to poverty, misery and destruction. Londoners have had enough – massive protests up to 2 million people, not even reported in msm.

      240

    • #
      • #
        GARETH LEWIS

        Thank-you for these links. I know it’s stating the bleeding obvious, but why is there no coverage of these issues in Australia by politicians (bar Craig Kelly), media (bar Sky after dark) and the so-called health professionals? This is fertile ground for conspiracy theories.

        20

    • #
      SmegHead

      Viruses will likely adapt faster to an antiviral than a vaccine.

      Eh? Where did you get that idea from? The vaccine is very specific in its action … a one-trick pony. Many of the anti-virals in combination with other drugs (antibiotics, zinc, Vit-D, etc) have a number of mechanisms of action that hit it multiple ways (stopping replication, preventing spike proteins getting into the cells, etc).

      By using the anti-virals and other drugs in combination it allows you immune system to get on top of the virus before it can get a foothold in your body. So you would still develop an immunity to the specific variant and be very effective at fighting it off if exposed again. However you would show minimal symptoms and have a very low viral load because the virus was not able to replicate effectively thanks to the anti-virals.

      130

  • #
    David Maddison

    Pick your variant.

    Α α, Β β, Γ γ, Δ δ, Ε ε, Ζ ζ, Η η, Θ θ, Ι ι, Κ κ, Λ λ, Μ μ, Ν ν, Ξ ξ, Ο ο, Π π, Ρ ρ, Σ σ/ς, Τ τ, Υ υ, Φ φ, Χ χ, Ψ ψ, Ω ω.

    370

  • #
    Binny Pegler

    If you’re in the ‘at risk group’ you get your vaccine for this years variant every year.

    617

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Unless you meet a number of asymptomatic people outdoors and you get inoculated free.

      160

    • #

      Minor correction.
      “If you’re in the ‘at risk group’ you get your vaccine for this years variant every year.”
      Reality will be…
      If you’re in the ‘at risk group’ you get your vaccine for previous years variants every year.

      200

    • #
      Richard Owen No.3

      Binny:

      The Vaccine producers just might have thought of that. Today’s money train is tomorrow’s money train, for ever and ever.

      110

  • #
    David Maddison

    I don’t see why vaccinations are needed at all if we have effective anti-virals and prophylaxis.

    An inexpensive cocktail of Vit C, D, Zn, HCQ or IVM etc as per published protocols, if universally adopted for prophylaxis or treatment, could wipe out all variants of the virus in no time at minimal cost and no loss of liberty or business activity.

    But Big Pharma and their useful idiot propagandists as well as those evil doers who are using this bioweapon as an excuse to destroy Western society and freedoms would be displeased.

    651

    • #
      Steve4192

      Let’s not forget the most effective prophylaxis of all … lose some weight [snip]

      Something like 80%-90% of the people under 60 who are hospitalized with Covid are overweight/obese. If there was ever a time for people to clean up their diets and get some exercise to drop a few pounds, this is it. And exercise outside to get some natural vitamin D rather than relying on supplements.

      [Hmm a little mean maybe too mean.]ED

      (It doesn’t help people with a hostile message you post, they will react defensively to it) CTS

      00

    • #
      Fran

      A 78 y/o friend had a stroke in the weeks following her 2nd vaccination. While there may be no connection, what bothers me is that the data on expected and observed frequency of stroke/heart/other vascular events is not being collected anywhere for the “vulnerables”.

      My take is that I won’t consider the vaccine until I know that the “roll-out” of a new pharmaceutical is being properly monitored.

      10

    • #
      Fran

      A 78 y/o healthy friend has a stroke in the weeks following her second vaccination. While this may be coincidental, the fact that no one seems to be collecting data on the frequency of stroke/heart attack/other vascular events to compare with population rate is concerning. There is no systematic monitoring of even a sample of vaccinees anywhere.

      I’ll consider the vaccine when the data appears, probably from someone digging in the statistics years from now.

      00

  • #
    David Maddison

    Even a simple measure like correcting Vit D deficiency would be enormously helpful. Here is yet another study.

    Even places in lower latitudes can have widespread Vit D deficiency such as India.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34139758/

    Vitamin D deficiency is associated with higher hospitalisation risk from COVID-19: a retrospective case-control study

    Edward B Jude et al. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2021.

    Abstract

    Context: One of the risk factors for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection is postulated to be vitamin D deficiency. To understand better the role of vitamin D deficiency in the disease course of COVID-19, we undertook a retrospective case-control study in the North West of England (NWE).

    Objective: To examine whether hospitalisation with COVID-19 is more prevalent in individuals with lower vitamin D levels.

    Methods: The study included individuals with results of serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25[OH]D) between 1 st April 2020 and 29th January 2021. Patients were recruited from two districts in NWE. The last 25(OH)D level in the previous 12 months was categorised as ‘deficient’ if less than 25 nmol/L and ‘insufficient’ if 25-50 nmol/L.

    Results: 80,670 participants were entered into the study. Of these, 1,808 were admitted to hospital with COVID-19, of whom 670 died. In a primary cohort, median serum 25(OH)D in participants who were not hospitalised with COVID-19 was 50.0 [interquartile range, IQR 34.0-66.7] nmol/L versus 35.0 [IQR 21.0-57.0] nmol/L in those admitted with COVID-19 (p <0.005). There were similar findings in a validation cohort (median serum 25(OH)D 47.1 [IQR 31.8-64.7] nmol/L in non-hospitalised versus 33.0 [IQR 19.4-54.1] nmol/L in hospitalised patients). Age-, sex- and seasonal variation-adjusted odds ratios for hospital admission were 2.3-2.4 times higher among participants with serum 25(OH)D <50 nmol/L, compared to those with normal serum 25(OH)D levels, without any excess mortality risk.

    Conclusions: Vitamin D deficiency is associated with higher risk of COVID-19 hospitalisation. Widespread measurement of serum 25(OH)D and treating any unmasked insufficiency or deficiency through testing may reduce this risk.

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      B’Cold today here in Sydney – currently only 15.8C – only lasted 30 mins of shorts and short sleeve shirt, in sun today in hazy sky.

      Will keep taking my 2 x 5000 iu vitamin d capsules per day

      Usually turn Gas Central Heating on 0700 and off after 0930 having taken overnight chill off house, then back on 1600 to 2100

      Today have kept it on all day at 20C

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        Kalm Keith

        This has been a cold winter for me here in NovoCastria.

        A day or so back we had a minimum of 4° C which is cool.

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      Re Vitamin D deficiency – here in Sydney

      The NSW Premier has issued a stern warning to locked-down Sydneysiders after NSW recorded 38 new local coronavirus cases on Thursday.

      Out of the new positive cases, 18 had been in isolation the entire time they were infectious, Gladys Berejiklian said.

      But another 11 had been in the community while infectious with the highly contagious Delta strain.

      Ms Berejiklian urged people to “please stop” visiting other people outside their household.

      “Your immediate family means those you live with, it doesn’t mean extended family or friends,” she said.

      People who experience Covid-like symptoms should not leave the house at all, unless it’s for getting a Covid-19 test.

      Thursday’s number was the most community cases recorded in a single day in the state since the outbreak began.

      Ms Berejiklian said much of the spread had occurred between family members.

      “The saddest message out of all of that is that people with the virus are passing it on to those they love the most,” she said.

      “We are seeing the greatest number of people get the virus in the last few days being household contacts.”

      It would be interesting to find out the ethnicity of the 38 cases in the Sydney West

      The ABC Covid Hospitalisations Statistic Page NSW last 14 Days, shows a rapid increase in Hospitalisations (30) and in ICU (7)

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      • #
        OldOzzie

        Poor form to put NSW Covid destiny in hands of vulnerable southwest

        Eastern Suburbs residents were thanked for getting tested and given no such alternative like those in the southwest who are now forced to save the state, Angira Bharadwaj writes.

        The destiny of NSW’s escalating Covid-19 crisis rests entirely in the hands of southwest Sydney — this is the stern ultimatum that was handed down to residents of Fairfield, Canterbury-Bankstown, and Liverpool this week.

        The message to the community is that it’s up to the southwest, which has some of the highest proportions of low-income earners, casual workers and vulnerable refugee communities, to bring the state’s trainwreck second wave under control.

        The LGAs of Fairfield and Liverpool have historically had some of the highest concentrations of refugee resettlement nationally.

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    Doc

    Totally agree with your antivirals statement, Jo.
    I don’t understand why the practising medical profession hasn’t been up in arms demanding a definitive statement on why all Australian governments will not confront this question. Surely by now there are enough definitive papers on COVID-19 and those antiviral agents for Health Departments – hence governments – to address whether or not the antivirals are effective. Early on there were enough reports around to even define the appropriate timing of using these agent,and when it was too late. That defies the government’s position which is backed by gaol sentences for practitioners prescribing those drugs. That itself is enough to question whether the government can actually vindicate its decisions.

    It is one thing for governments to decide definitively against antivirals – if the case was seen as being necessary to get the Pharmaceutical companies to go to the cost of developing vaccines when the business case for them would not make sense. If governments know the antivirals work but could not support their use on the above basis, then that theoretically has already led to an enormous loss of life as the price of preventing an even greater loss. That’s ignoring the economic, health and social costs of those decisions.

    If a Health Department guru or a government was preparing to open up the economy and society knowing these vaccines were not fully protective, and were beginning to fail further with mutant strains, shouldn’t they be looking very closely for the security of whatever the antivirals (forbidden for use) can offer, if they fail? To come to that decision however, these same groups have to eat humble pie and explain their current decisions because it’s the first question they will confront.

    Furthermore, if I was a practicing GP and becoming increasingly concerned for the future welfare of my patients under these circumstances, I’d be going hammer and tongs at the AMA, Health Department and government to demand proof of failure of antivirals and an answer as to why they are forbidden when they have been used successfully overseas. There has to be provision for definitive proof of inactivity in the face of papers to the contrary.

    There must never again be a repeat of the government’s tactic of ‘declaring the science is in’ as all governments have done in the case of Anthropogenic Global Warming.

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    • #
      Ronin

      “Furthermore, if I was a practicing GP and becoming increasingly concerned for the future welfare of my patients under these circumstances, I’d be going hammer and tongs at the AMA, Health Department and government to demand proof of failure of antivirals and an answer as to why they are forbidden when they have been used successfully overseas. There has to be provision for definitive proof of inactivity in the face of papers to the contrary.”
      Yes David, this just isn’t good enough, and it looks like the planned destruction of Western economies wasn’t happening fast enough, so we have copped this planted virus.

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        If you were a GP you would be expelled from the college for making waves, if in a uni, your tenure would be rescinded. A simple choice: Go along with protocols or find a new career. Your medical one would be over. Don’t doubt me.

        C’mon, you’ve seen it before, how many young scientists with a family and mortgage speak up about AGW? Ask Peter Ridd.

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        • #
          Doc

          Hanrahan, #8.1.1
          You underestimate the emotional attachment most GP’s have for defending their patients. The College of GP’s does not bend to government. It is a more powerful voice when it speaks vs the colleges and associations of the Specialities. If enough GP’s make a noise to their secretariats then their leaders will front up. When GP’s speak patients listen and patients vote. This is nothing like the Ridd case. (ps I was not a GP!)

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      • #
        another ian

        We have trouble buying antiviurals because of “dangerous side effects” yet we can still buy alcohol and tobacco?

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        Chris

        Back in 2020 in the earlier months of the virus spreading. Doctors and dentists were asked to stop writing scripts for HCQ for family members as this had created a shortage of supply for people who had Lupus and took HCQ regularly. Andrew Bolt discussed this several times.

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      What is the AMA doing?

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        I remember a couple of years ago, the head of the AMA was chronically going off about Climate Change.

        It seemed bizarre at the time but events since then affirm that the organisation is primarily focused on specific political issues.

        In the river of life, the AMA clearly intends to be perceived by governments and patients alike as being mid stream; “we’re with you”.

        So much for the independence of modern medicine, and on the business and political side of things, how many of the big names who have bared their arms have taken the “saline” option?

        O’Biden, Boris, Scomo, Billy Gates etc.

        Are they true believers or just believers?

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      Ted1

      Doc, here we have an example of professional privilege usurping the law. First the law defers to the privilege for its expertise, then the privileged people write the law. Where conflict arises, professional bodies retreat like a tortoise to blind ultra conservatism.

      In this example the difference in price between the legacy drugs and the modern drugs is immense. In the order of 1,000 to 1. This gives a huge incentive for bending or breaking the rules. It behooves governments to use great care that this opportunity does not give rise to rorting via government action.

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    MrGrimNasty

    I wonder if there is a beneficial behavioural modification with dishing out home treatment packs with anti-virals etc. to everyone who tests positive?

    The vast majority of people with covid hardly know and a lot of people fail to isolate and just continue life as usual convinced (thanks to idiot govs/experts) that simply throwing on a mask protects others massively.

    Being prescribed medication will affirm in the mind that you are indeed ill and under treatment and people will be more likely to stay home, even keep away from people in the same household?

    As to what helps generates new variants; there’s little doubt lockdowns, vaccinations, and drugs, all have the potential to do that to one extent or another.

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      MrGrimNasty
      Could you please explain how you think lockdowns could generate new variants?

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        John R Smith

        isolated I’m not very edumacated, but it could go like this …
        Every viral exposure does not result in illness.
        Otherwise we’d have no immune systems and we’d all be kaputnik.
        Isolating populations makes them vulnerable to novel scariants, like when the evil colonists suddenly show up and bring a new fully developed scariants (from which the evil colonists have immunity due to exposure), and the pure harmonious indigenous get schwacked.
        So, I think creating little fiefdoms of isolated populations is a good way to restore the immune purity of indigenousness.
        So, the global … I’m mean colonists can Build Back Better.

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        • #
          John R Smith

          sorry, that posted accidently before I finished, now have to rush to work
          and my connections acting up

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        • #
          Dennis

          “There is an urgent need for global stakeholders to cooperate in simultaneously managing the direct consequences of the COVID-19 crisis. To improve the state of the world, the World Economic Forum is starting The Great Reset initiative.”

          Build Back Better.

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        Hanrahan

        Like JRS I’m not very edumacated but vaccinating at the height of the pandemic does this. Search on “leaky vaccinations”.

        Sounds like the reason we are told to take the whole course of antibiotics even when we feel OK the next day and should not eat poultry and pigs fed antibiotics routinely. This is the sure way to develop “super bugs”.

        I witnessed the results in the ’60s. A Korean War vet had strep-resistant TB. He was there when I went in, still there when I got out. Probably died there. Strep-resistant TB is becoming endemic in the US with uncontrolled immigration.

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        • #
          Brenda Spence

          I used to be in charge of a Tuberculosis diagnostic laboratory in the 70s and way back then TB had to be treated with 3 antibiotics simultaneously for 18 months, streptomycin was just one of them. The reason being that Mycobacteria that caused TB rapidly became drug resistant. I doubt that its changed. We found that cultures from places like Viet Nam were drug resistant because they only used one antibiotic usually streptomycin!

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            Hanrahan

            Another was PAS but in quantities that were physically hard to swallow. The strep in the bum made it seriously hard to sit down and the PAS made you sit down in the toilet. Allergic reactions could be severe. Every morning when we lined up for our shot it was NOT done in the treatment room. The nurses who were allergic could not be in the same room as it was administered. Strong medicine.

            Maybe that vet was allergic not resistant. There was another drug I didn’t need, maybe vimiacin, but not as effective. I was young and the services could oversee me on discharge so I was out in record time. That was Birrallee in the Adelaide hills.

            That sheet did me no harm, no bug has been game to come near me since, for nearly 60 years.

            Curious, but during the war when penicillin was new and in demand by the services my older, rather sickly, brother got very ill. They pumped him with penicillin, he survived and the same, never sick again. I am not anti medicine but reserve the right to be selective.

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              GD

              I am not anti-medicine but reserve the right to be selective.

              Exactly. I am allergic to penicillin.

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            • #
              OldOzzie

              I had suspected TB early 50s and I was given a VERY Large Circular Wafer Coated Powder, which if you bit into, was revolting – I learnt to swallow whole and that ability has stayed with me for life

              Can take huge handful of pills and swallow easily – but Gag badly if someone tries to take swab from throat (plus Dentists)

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      • #
        MrGrimNasty

        The more time a virus is in circulation, the more time for a mutation to arise, lockdowns do not stop the epidemic, they delay. Also lockdowns are not perfect, that could preferentially select a more transmissible strain. On the other hand lockdowns could prevent a more transmissible but less deadly strain (the expected natural evolutionary outcome) from dominating. None of this is controversial – essentially any action taken to control the virus could go any way – no one can really know. The virus mutates all the time, the actions taken (or not) help determine the ‘successful’ strains.

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      James

      ziverdokit.store or kiwidrug.com has these medications in a kit.

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  • #
    Peter C

    What is the Delta variant?

    I asked the question on the last thread: has the genone of Covid been sequenced?
    No answer.

    Can the genone be sequenced if the virus has not been isolated or replicated in culture?

    How are the various variants identified?

    Maybe Gee Aye can help here?

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    • #

      I was reading an article on the Spanish health journal Salud recently (see here) that argues that the sequence for the COVID virus (and the varients) was created on a computer. The official COVID narrative is that the varients differ genetically by as much as 0.3% which is apparenty very small indeed. According to Mike Yeadon, that is too small of a change to require top-up vaccinations (which is what they’re planning for us) because our immune-system would recognize it.

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      • #

        Peter C, Richard,

        What do people mean by “isolated” or “replicated” ? This virus has been sequenced in all 29,000 bases hundreds of times. These have been connected in a mass branching map, and the changing symptoms, the rate of spread, response of antibodies, etc etc. The virus has been photographed by electron micrography. Contact tracers have followed the infections through families, across shops, boats, and planes, and these tracings match the genetic profiles. WE have even followed the mutations that occur in a single patients with a long running infection.

        I don’t think any professor would have said the 0.3% message quite like that. Anyone who has done a second year unit at uni in genetics would know that it only takes a point mutation to cause a major disease.

        Humans have 3.2 billion bases. If three bases are missing in the right spot a person will get cystic fibrosis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cystic_fibrosis. That 0.0000001% makes a big difference.

        Many base changes don’t matter, but it is not possible to infer anything meaningful from a bucket number like a “0.3% change”.

        A few other point mutations are listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetic_disorders

        See NExtstrain to appreciate just how much this virus has been isolated. Mouseover every dot and read which lab, which mutations, which country…
        https://nextstrain.org/ncov/global

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          MP

          From the FDA, CDC website go to page 43, the paragraph used to be at Page 39 then 42 and now 43 so I assume it is being updated. https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download
          Extract from page 43, The analytical sensitivity of the rRT-PCR assays contained in the CDC 2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019- nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel were determined in Limit of Detection studies. Since no quantified virus isolates of the 2019-nCoV were available for CDC use at the time the test was developed and this study conducted, assays designed for detection of the 2019-nCoV RNA were tested with characterized stocks of in vitro transcribed full length RNA (N gene; GenBank accession: MN908947.2) of known titer (RNA copies/µL) spiked into a diluent consisting of a suspension of human A549 cells and viral transport medium (VTM) to mimic clinical specimen. Samples were extracted using the QIAGEN EZ1 Advanced XL instrument and EZ1 DSP Virus Kit (Cat# 62724) and manually with the QIAGEN DSP Viral RNA Mini Kit (Cat# 61904). Real-Time RT-PCR assays were performed using the Thermo Fisher Scientific TaqPath™ 1-Step RT-qPCR Master Mix, CG (Cat# A15299) on the Applied Biosystems™ 7500 Fast Dx RealTime PCR Instrument according to the CDC 2019-nCoV Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel instructions for use.
          Though there is another paper that states it has and the CDC has the culture since 2/2/20, well before the above paper was written, yet we have confirmed cases of the virus from well before this date, (Australia’s first confirmed case was on the 20/01/20 confirmed before they knew what it was? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/grows-virus-cell-culture.html
          They can’t both be right. (link within, https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0516_article grown on monkey cells only, would not grow on human)
          There have been many FOI requests to health departments world wide for the studies on the isolation and culturing of the virus, not one has produced the data, none.

          Nextstrain is computer generated. I have looked at this from your previous claims, they are all big pharma labs and funded labs.
          Submitting Lab KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme,Kilifi
          Originating Lab National Centre for Disease Control (NCDC) Biotechnology Division, Delhi
          hCoV-19/Wuhan/WIV04/2019 (WIV04) is the official reference sequence employed by GISAID (EPI_ISL_402124). WIV04 was chosen because of its high-quality genome sequence and because it represented the consensus of a handful of early submissions for the betacoronavirus responsible for COVID-19. (Pilailuk et al 2020)

          WIV04 is representative of and identical to the early outbreak sequences. WIV04 was isolated by the Wuhan Institute of Virology from a clinical sample of a bronchoalveolar lavage fluid (BALF) collected at the Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital in Hubei Province on 30th December 2019 from a symptomatic patient, a retailer working at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market.

          BALF was used for RNA extraction and metagenomic next-generation sequencing (NGS). The consensus sequence was obtained by de-novo assembly. (Zheng-Li Shi et al 2020)
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/mesh?Cmd=DetailsSearch&Term=%22Consensus+Sequence%22%5BMeSH+Terms%5D (Consensus Sequence
          A theoretical representative nucleotide or amino acid sequence in which each nucleotide or amino acid is the one which occurs most frequently at that site in the different sequences which occur in nature. The phrase also refers to an actual sequence which approximates the theoretical consensus.)
          https://teaching.ncl.ac.uk/bms/wiki/index.php/Consensus_sequence
          Site numbering and genome structure uses Wuhan-Hu-1/2019 as reference. The phylogeny is rooted relative to early samples from Wuhan. Temporal resolution assumes a nucleotide substitution rate of 8 × 10^-4 subs per site per year. Full details on bioinformatic processing can be found here.
          No sample was provided by Wuhan 2019, they only sequenced it. Original study from Chyna. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30251-8/fulltext Note the CT used to get the samples and funding from the CCP

          Show the study which proves the isolation and culturing.

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          Peter C

          thanks Jo

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        • #
          Richard

          Jo, below is a video that Peter might find useful on the question of “virus isolation”. The interesting part about COVID comes in at about 5:50 where Sam Bailey (co-author of the book Virus Mania) explains that none of the papers that apparently isolated SARS-CoV-2 had purified isolated ths virus.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huEaH-boaoY&t
          The video also touches upon the problem with the electron micrograph images (see 11:37 in the video)
          In Virus Mania they conclude:

          If no such particle “purification” has been done anywhere, how can one claim that the RNA obtained is part of a viral genome? And how can such RNA then be widely used to diagnose infection with a new virus? We have asked these two questions to numerous representatives of the official corona narrative worldwide, but nobody could answer them. The fact that the RNA sequences extracted from tissue samples and which the SARS-CoV-2 RT-PCR tests were “calibrated” belong to a new pathogenic virus called SARS-CoV-2 is therefore based on faith alone, not on sound research

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    • #
      Ian

      The delta variant is that which used to be called the India variant as that is where it was first reported in late 2020. Name change on May 31 2021

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  • #
    Hanrahan

    My No1 son is a house guest for the night. I explained that I will refuse the jab as long as possible because my bride of 58 years depends on me, alive!

    He looked me in the eye and said: You WILL either get the jab OR you will catch covid and at my age will likely die. He is a smart guy but probably has never bought a newspaper, even in an airport, and he did a lot of flying. Yes I know: If you don’t read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do you are misinformed. But you must start somewhere, read something that sounds fishy and read beyond what you have in hand at that moment.

    I’ve said it before: Lefties lack curiosity.

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  • #
    OldOzzie

    From Catallaxy Files – Fear being weaponised

    Facts on COVID-19 politicians won’t tell you

    The average age of COVID-19 deaths in Australia is 85 years – above the
    age of life expectancy.

    John Kehoe
    AFR Economics editor

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    • #
      Harves

      Yep. Put simply, this means there is more chance of dying of something other than Covid?
      Billions of dollars wasted trying to extend the lives of octogenarians.

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      • #
        Annie

        Recently, Wuflu was only 28th in the list of causes of death in the UK.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        “trying to extend the lives of octogenarians.”

        Harves, the rest I agree with, but as for the above, do you think they give a rats about occys?

        We all Go sometime and IF there’s any CV19 involvement it would likely make a difference of a month or so at the most.

        In fact the CV19 “remedies” have caused much distress and pain to the oldies and families through enforced separation at the final moment.

        Caring?

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      Raving

      Covid ripped through the old aged homes at the start of the pandemic. People wised up to that one and now its a different game.

      You are fortunate to have been able to control outbreaks since after the initial surge. Hope the success continues

      20

      • #
        MP

        And Flu rips through them every year and they all have their Flu Vaxs

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        • #
          Raving

          Yeah maybe it was the effectiveness of Flu vaxxes which encouraged atrocious infection controls. Seniors were dying with 30% mortality in residences of shared rooms, shared staff and nonexistant PPE. When those staff booked off sick, those same helpless seniors were allowed to starve and dehydrate to death

          10

    • #
      Chris

      What helps to generate new variants.? People with HIV who develop the virus do not become clear over many months. Researchers have found these people cycle in and out of being symptomatic and asymptomatic and with each cycle they have a different variant.
      That is they are not producing the original variant they were first sick with but with a different variant each time they were tested, sometimes very sick other times not sick at all.

      Researchers believe people with HIV who get the virus will remain a well of infection.

      I don’t know if this is a Chicken Pox/ Shingles thing or this behaviour by the virus is completely new.

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      Chris

      An interesting comment by Dr Robert Malone – inventor of the mRNA injection on The Epoch Times -“American Thought Leaders”. 6/7/21 He does not believe that minors should be vaccinated and expressed concern about the heart problems showing up. He said this could be also occurring in older patients but because of “background noise’ ie other health conditions this is difficult to assess .

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  • #
    Flok

    I totally agree that antivirals should be the forefront in patient treatment. In addition I do not believe that one jab is the answer for all. Medicine does not work like this and it is already apparent with side effects and deaths of those that have been vaccinated.

    A case with my mom:
    History of stroke which was a mild one and she recovered. Her GP kept calling for her to get the vaccine until such time I reminded him that his patient (my mom) had history of stroke and therefore at higher risk of further complications of blood clots. He agreed and apologised as he should have checked this.

    I have very little faith in our health system. I do hope that GP’s will look at the history of all their patients before booking anyone for the jab. At least that is their medical practice duty.

    Based on these observations there is a case for legal action regardless of indemnity given to GP’s for failing due diligence.

    I can only prey for others that GP’s are not jumping on the bandwagon to get the jab numbers up. That is just printing money.

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    Damon

    The point of the exercise is to avoid death and/or minimise symptoms. How this is achieved (vaccines or anti-virals) is completely irrelevant.

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    OldOzzie

    Jo,

    myself, as someone taking antivirals, and with low platelets and doing Cancer Immunotherapy, based on all I have read, reluctant
    to have vaccines

    What are your thoughts on this approach which appeals to me as an alternative.

    USPTO patent for the Finnish Therapeutica Borealis Ltd.’s COVID-19 drug was granted

    The other inventors of the drug and founders of Therapeutica Borealis are Adjunct Professor Lauri Kangas and Psychologist Matti Rihko. The invention is to use a nasal spray with three effects on cellular mechanisms in nasal mucosa to prevent and weaken the ability of the virus to enter the body and replicate itself. That way it is possible to prevent contracting the disease and decrease the risk of falling ill seriously.

    “Tackling the pandemic probably requires, in addition to a vaccine, a preventive or early-acting drug. This drug also helps especially in a situation where vaccine coverage threatens to remain too low for herd immunity,” says Kalervo Väänänen.

    The active substances to be used in the novel drug (aprotinin, hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin) are well-known and commonly used drugs, but in this invention, they are used in a new and targeted manner on the mucous membrane of the upper respiratory tract. Targeted use enables lower dosage of the active substances, making the treatment safer and more effective.

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    Hanrahan

    An add-on to Ozzie in #12

    The infection rate in Australia is below the birth rate, ergo we can never in a hundred years reach natural herd immunity.

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      Hanrahan

      Why the red thumb? Am I wrong?

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      • #

        Can herd immunity even be achieved? Immunity may not last. Mutations may outrun vaccines and immunity.

        Herd immunity “in nature” usually means killing off the vulnerable til only the survivors are left, and / or evolution to nicer strains of the virus.

        Herd immunity didn’t work for chickens.

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          OldOzzie

          Jo,

          I am not Anti Vaccine – I have had Salk (polio) Vaccine, Smallpox, Yellow Fever, Diphtheria, MMR, 3 Pneumonia Shots and have had Senior’s Flu shot for a number of years, and even with Snotty Grandkids inhouse, have not had a cold for years.

          The Covid vaccines make me wary – I will stay with antivirals approach for the moment

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            MP

            Whether you are or are not for vaccines is irrelevant. This is not a vaccine, it fits no definition of vaccine I have read.
            It does not stop you catching or transmitting it, it “may” prevent mild symptoms, Codral cold tabs do that should we call them vaccines as that’s pretty much the level of logic we are at now. This not a vaccine cannot even be claimed to be an antiviral.

            Your common sense and logic has kept you alive for past years, stick with that and you will be fine.

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        • #
          Bruce

          “Herd immunity didn’t work for chickens.”

          Given the often “casual” attitude to in-breeding in many agricultural fields, that may not be surprising.

          What the long-term prospects for human cultures that routinely practice consanguineous marriages, will be “interesting” on top of the already heavily documented situation. NOT PC.

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        • #
          David A

          My understanding is that natural immunity with T cells is likely to last decades, and cover more wuflu versions. My thought is quite simple, the three front attack of (1) for all boosted cogent vitamin immune systems, (2) antivirals for all, and (3) limited Isolation but mainly monitoring and testing of the very vulnerable, would stop this relatively non lethal virus in its tracks.

          30

  • #
    Scissor

    Apparently, the President of Haiti received his door-to-door vaccination check.

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      Raving

      Don’t know about the red thumb thing but in a sense you are wrong.

      Think of it as a mighty tree grows from a small seed

      Today, next week or even next month, the infection rate is lower than the birth rate. Yet the insidious nature of exponential growth is that with Reproduction > 1, the infection rate grows and grows until even a few percentage of the total population gets newly infected each and every day … until the infection peaks and collapses

      21

      • #
        Raving

        Intended for ..

        31
        #
        Hanrahan
        July 7, 2021 at 10:25 pm · Reply
        Why the red thumb? Am I wrong?

        00

  • #
    JB

    There are 2 more factors in this whole pandemic narrative that almost no one is considering—the incredible power of both the placebo and the nocebo effects.

    It’s very possible that all of these vaccines offer nothing more than the placebo effect over a very powerful nocebo effect sparked by all the 24/7 mainstream media fear mongering, social media virtue signaling, etc.

    There’s absolutely no proof that the vaccines prevent anyone from either getting Covid or prevent its transmission.

    If the MSM and political messaging shifted to a more positive place, I think we’d see much the same effect.

    Everyone should definitely stop listening to and watching any media outlet that receives funding from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, which is pushing a lot of this narrative.

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    • #
      Jojodogfacedboy

      Our current vaccination program is still from the first version of the virus, 18 months old and still giving the same shot for a virus that has mutated a multitude of times.
      Is it a wonder that this crap doesn’t work.
      Never did as the mutations outpaced the vaccinations effect.

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      Simon

      “There’s absolutely no proof that the vaccines prevent anyone from either getting Covid or prevent its transmission”
      You seem to be forgetting the large number of clinical trials without which there would have been no Government approval.

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      • #
        Yonason

        This is an experimental vaccine with “emergency use authorization,” which would not have been given had the effectiveness of the inexpensive and very safe alternatives hadn’t been suppressed.

        Also, btw, it is, at least in the US, illegal to force anyone to be vaccinated against their will with any experimental treatment.

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        • #
          MP

          Thats the US version EUA, in Aus and the land of the long white communist it is approved for emergency use. Same thing but these conmen are all about the wording.
          The question is, this is a trial, why is the most important data such as adverse events only voluntary world wide.

          Greg hunt stated on the not a vaccine roll out “this is the worlds largest vaccine trial and we will get lots of data from this, what data are they after when they ignore the most important.
          Go to 12:50 min mark https://www.abc.net.au/insiders/health-minister-greg-hunt/13176536

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        MP

        All trials where performed for efficacy only and only on the original strain and only by the snake oil manufacture, no independent studies or oversight. Why would that be.
        Most studies started with a claimed 40,000 guinea pigs, final analysis of ended with 10,000 vax and 10’000 placebo, wonder what happened to the other 20.000.

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          Bruce

          Anyone familiar with the “field-trial” scale and times for the Salk and Sabin Polio vaccines?

          Jenner got VERY lucky. VERY LUCKY!!

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        Kalm Keith

        So clinical.

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      Doc

      JB, you can argue that for placebos. I would suggest there is a psychological response much stronger than the placebo (placebo will not actually stop symptoms if one is infected and symptomatic).

      The huge msm magnification of the chances of getting the clots, myocarditis and death will have most people living with a certain amount of trepidation immediately after receiving the vaccination. They wait to see if they will be the unlucky one. It magnifies in the mind every little symptom people get post injection. Fear has them either refusing or delaying vaccination, or seeking reassurance for every minor symptom post jab.

      The psychological effect of mass emphasis on the doom predicted from the AGW theory is enough to drive a huge percentage of the population into total belief, and its worse for children who have no life experience to fall back on to defend themselves. Fear drives rationality out the window, especially when education deliberately avoids arming people with the required maths and sciences that present a barrier to the prosyletising of those that would control the masses.imo

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    roman

    And at some point we will need to hold the fraudulant politicians accountable for the costs they’ve incurred on us – based on nothing more than the demonstrably empty claims of soon-to-be-but-never-actually-happening horror. There must be prosecutions.

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      Hanrahan

      Name any polly held to account for the Vietnam or Afghanistan disasters. JFK is still a hero. Trump is the only one who is being questioned and he didn’t start a war.

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        roman

        Ah so in the name of ‘pragmatism’ you suggest giving up at the start. I suggest that that may not be a winning strategy.

        Proportionality – the gov response is blatantly disproportional to the now demonstrable non-risk.
        Collective punishment – lockdowns as collective punishment for not getting the jab – the polies are actually tellilng us this.
        Fraud – false claims of ‘case’ numbers. How often were PCR tests previously exclusively used for diagnosis?
        Fraud – false claims re the effectiveness of wearing masks. Has anyone proved that a face mask inhibits viruses much?
        Abuse – keeping children at home. Keeping adults at home. Destroying socialisation. Directly causing mental health problems.
        Theft – stolen income due to forced business closures of all those ‘non-essential’ businesses, and for what? See item 1.

        Each of these, and likely many more, is fertile ground for further investigation and maybe prosecution.

        I’ve been to court a couple of times. Its not such a big deal. Just need to know what you’re doing. And lawyers are optional. Remember that courts are for dispute resolution. Does anyone here dispute the gov response to covid?

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        David A

        Vietnam and Afghanistan is painting with way to broad of a brush to lump those examples with the global democide of ignoring and actively sabotaging simple effective inexpensive preventative treatments.

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    How is it we insist on calling these Potions ,”Vaccines”?
    For they do not act as any vaccine I have heard of before.
    Government Goo is more appropriate,as in;
    “Take your government Goo,it is Double Plus Good for you”

    From the beginning the push for a vaccine and the dismissal of existing antivirals were a red flag.
    For this was declared a Novel Corona Virus,of the family which gives us the Common Cold.
    Thus it should have been obvious that a real vaccine was highly unlikely ..
    For who soever cures the common cold will be a international name and a billionare to boot …
    Yet in just 7days(sarc),the Masters of the universe created this cure..

    A cure potentially more destructive than the illness.
    Yes indeed,
    “We are from the government,we are here to help you”..
    Help us into?
    Poverty?
    Lawlessness?
    Savagery?
    With help such as this,I need no enemies.

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      Mark Allinson

      As Jo says at the top of the thread:

      “If any lives actually mattered to our health authorities …”

      Let that one sink in.

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      Doc

      John, I don’t think I have ever in my 4 score existence seen politicians acting in such an overtly callous manner when it comes to caring for people, than I have seen in the handling of COVID-19.

      The police have also been unmasked in many cases as presenting more like the Russian constabulary or worse in applying all the powers they have been given. Driving up to a single sunbather in a park, arresting a mother and handcuffing her in her own home, in front of her kids just for something she placed on Twitter or some such. Why would governments threaten GP’s with gaol for prescribing antivirals – a total overreaction. In the USA we see police violently arresting parents at a school meeting held against CRT. Police are handling peacefully calmly demonstrating people much more roughly than ever seen in the Oregan riots. We are seemingly much closer to despotic behaviour than we have ever been. On Fox today they were saying that those arrested in Washington over the 6th January demonstration have, in the main, not been charged but are to be held in gaol until the midterm elections next year. This ain’t democracy!

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        David A

        I don’t know why or how we ( US) do not have legal action going against these tyrannical acts. 80 million Americans would contribute to a legal fund to prosecute this behavior on a local, state and National scale

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      Kalm Keith

      Neat, concise summary of modern uncivilisation.

      It seems that every aspect of our world is now riddled with corruption, distortion, control and means of subjugation imaginable.

      Evil lurks and does what it always does in the dark: we need to shine the light on this ugliness and bring in a new Reformation to give us hope and confidence in the future.

      Pushback.

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    PeterS

    Our state health “experts” and governments are panicking over cases where nurses not vaccinated and infected with the virus are going to work. So what? Aren’t the vaccinated ones protected? Apparently not. So why bother getting vaccinated if it doesn’t offer protection? I rather get the virus to obtain immunity given the symptoms are generally mild and there are no deaths, compared to playing Russian Roulette with experimental vaccines that might possibly have long term consequences.

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      roman

      I think I had covid April-May-ish last year.
      I called the doc to ask if they wanted to test me. They said nah unless you’ve just come back from or know someone who’s come back from China. Anyways the reason why I thought it was covid is because of how strangely mild it was. It started on one day, I kind of felt mildly fluy for another one, and by the third I was basically over it. My teen daughter had it even lighter. It was bizarre. My understanding is that the immediate response to getting the vaccine is more severe than that, let alone the potential longer term effects.
      So yeah nah, no jab for me.

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    Clyde Spencer

    “… not the magic bullet the advertisers claim”

    None of the manufacturers claim 100% efficacy! It is naive to assume that someone is completely protected even with three shots because it is your personal immune system that rids your body of the virus, and everyone’s immune system is different! Therefore, when challenged by the vaccine, people have different responses, some more effective than others, some less.

    It is a numbers game! Seat belts don’t guarantee that you will survive a bad car crash. However, statistics show that more people survive than before seat belt use was mandated. The key to the use of vaccines is to make it more difficult for the virus to spread by reducing the number of potential hosts.

    If you expect complete immunity to COVID just because your immune system has been challenged with a vaccine, you have unrealistic expectations.

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    red edwards

    We could build a better vaccine. One that inherently works against all strains of corona viruses.

    Pipe dream? There is one in animal testing.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33858942/

    Uses a killed bacteria vaccine (the oldest vaccine type in existence). The test worked against both pathogenic pig corona virus as well as against COVID.

    It is designed to work using a non mutating portion of the corona virus capsule.

    Any bets we’ll never see it?

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    CHRIS

    Plenty of letters left in the Greek Alphabet (I’m waiting on the COVID Omega strain…then what will happen??? LOL)

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    John F Hultquist

    Thanks Jo and those that comment. Knowing about these things is good.

    With regard to Ivermectin use and horses, there are protocols about switching to other chemicals so as to not have the parasites develop resistance to one.
    This sounds similar to “immune escape” but being neither a doctor nor researcher I actually don’t know.

    Since March of 2020 my plan involved Vitamin D3, Iron, Zinc, red onions (for quercetin), and potatoes (K and others). I have to use a pill for the D3.
    [Note that a potato has more K than a banana, they keep easily for weeks, unlike a banana that turns to mush in 2 days at home.]

    However, being rural and retired, it is easy for me to stay away from others. Distancing seems to be the best strategy and I’m comfortable with about ½ kilometer. [Had the 2-dose vaccine early this year.]

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    Richard Ilfeld

    Every year, in the US, we are encouraged to get a flu shot. It is, on average, about 40% effective. Some folks get it, some don’t.
    Flu, each year is part of a background of nasty pathogens we have to deal with and kills about as many of us as Covid is killing ow, or more; but from a broader spectrum of ages.
    We don’t mask up against the flu. The net effects would probably be negative, and for young people almost certainly so. Florida recently did essentially a no-masks-for-kids mandate (suggestion) after UF research showed masks were more hazardous than Covid, incubating all kinds of nasties when worn for long periods. And masks for kids during athletics are an obvious hazard and should be identified as the child abuse they are.
    There seems to be little or no news about treatment regimes, but clearly we will need antiviral regimes as this bug and its varients will be with us long term. One suspects there is a lot of use of antivirals — they are made and distributed in quantity, after all and we are getting people well more often now, but there is a lot of political risk in talking abut anything but the approved Quackery in support of authority that now clearly is far outside the data.
    The average age of fatalaties in most of our jurisdictions seems to be older than the average life expectancy. The focus on children and elder abuse that took place in many places will prevent the government from being able to deal with reality and go data driven now, for to do so would essentially admin their guilt.
    No public health issue, or public disaster has ever been botched so badly by authority.

    “Authority” had conflicted motives; the same corruption that permits awful policies in the face of massive climate fraud permits
    massive medical fraud. What happened to ” Look at the data, help the folks, if uncertain do no harm. ”

    “never let a crisis go to waste, the object is absolute power” is what happened.

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      John R Smith

      Well said, dead (bad metaphor) on.
      Thank you for what I am unable to express without sarcastic derision due to being POd.
      We ain’t seen the full crazy yet.
      Botched or perfectly executed may remain to be seen.

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    The question is to ask, what the goal of the COV-19 politics are. It’s known, that effective medical treatments exist, to name three, Ivermectin, HCQ, ACC (NAC).
    Following the effectiveness in India or in parts of India, in Mexico, both Ivermectin, Turkey, HCQ, the emergency approuval for what ever “vaccine” should be cancelled. But no, the medication isn’t accepted, the discussion about forbidden, the “vaccines” are to use what ever the human costs will be, starting with kids 12 years old and unknown later showing side effects.
    Further it’s now known, that healed persons stay immune longer than only 6 month, at least, as researchers find, 11 month, the last state I read. But policymaker decide, 6 month is the limit for further normal life as a former healed person.
    Could be continued af infinitum.

    To heal people or to lead the pandemic to an end is not the coal, that for sure

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    Raving

    The rapidly mounting new cases in both Israel and the UK, both being heavily vaccinated countries indicates a reduced vaccine effectiveness. The new reports of reduced refficacy are matched with rising infections. Blaming it all on unvaccinated young people is too convenient. The chain of transmission is going beyond that of just across individual age cohorts

    Reduced vaccine efficacy is critically important. It means that the ‘Hoped for’ herd immunity cannot be achieved

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    Richard Ilfeld

    What is happening in China?

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    Dave in the States

    In Tel Aviv, 75 students got infected at one party from a vaccinated person who had caught the virus from another vaccinated person.

    I wonder if these vaccinated spreaders were asymptomatic or showing symptoms? I recall seeing studies which indicated that asymptomatic spread was unlikely, but it’s almost impossible to bring them up on google now.

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    DevonshireDozer

    Ivor Cummins is at his wits’ end regarding the pseudo science surrounding the whole covid nonsense in Ireland. Those few of us in England who managed to stay awake during maths & science lessons at school are equally gobsmacked. As Dr Yeadon broadly said, “I cannot think of any benign reason for what is happening”.

    If you’re not familiar with Ivor’s stuff he has a youtube channel & self censors accordingly. Sort of. He’s the best kind of Irish ;^) .

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPn4FsiQP15nudug9FDhluA

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    Peter Fitzroy

    One thing, if the world had agreed to a total lockdown of around 14 days, early on – this pandemic would be history.

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    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    What a mess! Yet now we have supermarkets and even Bunnings vying to become your friendly jab hub outpost. Get jabbed while you wait for your saussage to sizzle?

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    Yonason

    My sympathies to Aussies who continue to be abused by those who are supposed to be looking after their welfare.
    https://www.weaselzippers.us/471602-australias-locking-down-again/

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    Jo
    Good post.

    The AU govt has painted itself into a corner. The so called vaccines (they are NOT vaccines) only give some relief of symptoms, which is good, but there are a host of problems BECAUSE OF THE VACCINES coming down the pike. Severe adverse reactions, Blood clots, heart problems, immunity issues – the first three waved away when raised by sensible scientists etc but now definitely an issue which cannot be avoided. The last is the elephant in the room and we will probably have to learn again that you do not release medications before doing the proper testing. Basic quality assurance principle, but completely lost on the Leftists controlling the narrative here.

    The vaccines are not the silver bullet at all.

    We need to use Ivermectin immediately. My enlightened doctor gave me a script and I have plenty aside for my family and relatives, just in case (unlikely but never hurts to be prepared). We need the CHOs to stop the lying on Ivermectin and HCQ plus zinc, and the other efficacious non vaccine remedies and make them readily available.

    Protect the vulnerable and OPEN UP.

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      STJOHNOFGRAFTON

      “The AU govt has painted itself into a corner”. They have, big-time. There must be a way for them to embrace emotional maturity and admit their mistake. The quicker this is done, the more face will be saved.

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      • #

        If someone does a proper big trial all governments will get the face saving excuse that the data didn’t “add up” until suddenly it did.

        It’s not that hard, and with the media also complicit, they will help the politicians to hide their joint failure and responsibility for the deaths that could have been avoided.

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        OldOzzie

        Alan Jones

        And on Wednesday, an alarmist NSW Premier said: “Every time you leave the house, please assume you have the virus … wearing a mask will reduce the chances.” Really?

        Dr John Meehan, of Global Research, an organisation comprised of the heads of science from around the world dedicated to promoting the sharing of data and best practice, has said: “All over the world … bacterial pneumonias are on the rise … why might that be? Because untrained members of the public are wearing medical masks, repeatedly … in a non-sterile fashion … they are becoming contaminated. They are pulling them off their car seat, off the rear-view mirror, out of their pocket, from their countertop and they are reapplying a mask that should be worn fresh and sterile every single time.”

        But if our increasingly discredited leaders cared to do some homework instead of listening to bureaucrats who tell them what they want to hear, they might note the comments of Dr Russell Braylock.

        He is an American neurosurgeon and formerly a Clinical Assistant Professor of Neurosurgery at the University of Mississippi Medical Centre, who surely makes a statement of the obvious: “By wearing a mask, the exhaled viruses will not be able to escape and will concentrate in the nasal passages, enter the olfactory nerves and travel into the brain … no one is telling the frail, elderly and those with lung disease such as, emphysema and pulmonary fibrosis, of these dangers when wearing facial masks of any kind, which can cause a severe worsening of lung function.”

        Well may we ask to whom the NSW Health Minister was referring when he talked about people with “wacko” views.

        To prosecute your case, under the guise of leadership, in a brazen and know-all manner, denying the public information to which they are entitled is an abuse of the democratic process and dangerous to good health practice.

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          Very true, but the mask nazis never actually refer to science. They prefer pseudo scientific statements which are unproven.

          What is proven on masks is that they;

          Significantly impact cognition – why no bans on masking when driving? I will not be in a taxi with a masked driver
          Severe headaches – which also impact concentration, and are indicative of a deeper problem
          Low O2 Sat levels – impacting well being
          Lowered physical resilience – hardly a good thing!
          And as you mention, significant increase in bacterial infections.

          But pseudo science and emotional appeals trump actual science it seems, a situation which cannot be a good one. But we all knew this from the climate change responses….

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    RossP

    Here is the report —it is in Spanish, unfortunately. ( https://www.docdroid.net/rNgtxyh/microscopia-de-vial-corminaty-dr-campra-firma-e-1-fusionado-pdf#page=6 )
    As I indicate in my first sentence, we need to look at the information with care and it should fall into the wait and see category. They indicate more work is being done to validate their first trials.

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    Geoffrey Williams

    The Morrison goverment has miscalculated;
    We are way behind in our vaccination levels.
    And we have been let down badly by their incompetence.
    Saying that this was ‘not a race’ has now backfired.
    We are are a wealthy nation and there is no excuse.
    We should have been 70% fully vaccinated by now.
    By the time we play catch up there will new variants.
    And then where we will we be . .
    GeoffW

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    Yonason

    Where DO variants come from?
    https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post/the-chicken-and-egg-problem-which-came-first

    non-vaccinated people are not responsible for selecting immune escape variants and enabling adaptation of increasingly anti-S Ab-resistant variants. Vaccinees, however, are to be seen as the breeding ground and ‘pilot plants’ for these variants.

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    TinyCO2

    Speaking from a country that has tackled covid very differently and now has over 128000 dead I’m not going to argue with you but instead ask a few questions.

    Why would vaccination cause any more or any worse variants than infection?

    If the worst variants come from those who have been vaccinated, why did the Spanish, Kent and Indian variants emerge amongst people who weren’t vaccinated?

    By all means treat known cases with antivirals and anti inflammation drugs but since many cases are silent, why wouldn’t the virus still spread and mutate?

    Would someone who was treated at a very early stage of infection with Ivermectin develop antibodies?

    While herd immunity isn’t possible as such, isn’t a society with partial immunity better able to endure future mutations like we do colds and flu?

    Has vaccination failed in the UK if the bulk of infections are amongst the unvaccinated (children, migrants, city dwellers)?

    If the majority of the vulnerable have been vaccinated in the UK and we know that for some it won’t work, is it a surprise that some or even most of those who now die are vaccinated?

    Ivermectin isn’t used the way some of you are suggesting and might a new regime cause novel or worse reactions (eg allergy)? Shouldn’t that be researched?

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    David A

    Tiny, your questions are fine, except some simply wrong and over broad. I will give a lions response, perhaps someone with more patience will fill in the details.

    1 Jo has done posts on this. Read them. Numerous reasons but one is you are creating many more chances. Each vaccinated individual us a mutation experiment, and the vaccines are only partially effective, creating endless future experiments.

    2. Simply wrong. Those nations had vaccine programs. Just mostly low numbers. Every single vaccinated is a biology experiment. ( I heard that the variants first appeared in areas where the vaccinations began. No proof though. In truth we don’t know, but the variants became much more prevalent shortly after the vaccine programs began.

    3. There is very little evidence of a symptomatic spread. There us ample evidence that the antivirals are very effective.

    4. Don’t know, but would guess it is likely. T cells are the most important long term immunity.

    5. Heard immunity is certainly possible, even if not 100 percent effective.

    6. In general yes, at least partially. How severe are their infections? What are the long term consequences if the vaccines? In my view they have already failed. That evidence is growing.

    7. Very unspecific. Majority is what 51 percent? And yes, with large percentage not vaccinated, the numbers should not be close. What does 95 percent effective mean to you?

    8. Your Ivermectin question is presumptive and not specific. Ivermectin has been used on hundreds of millions of people and animals. What specifically is your concern? Like with HCQ, we know what to be cautious about with these treatments.

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    mwhite

    How do you isolate a virus?

    https://odysee.com/@drsambailey:c/Odysee-Hunting-Viruses-With-Andy-Kaufmann-1-comp:7

    You need to isolate a virus before you can document its genome.

    “Millionaire offers $1.2 M reward to anyone providing an isolated sample of the COVID-19 virus”

    https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/04/19/millionaire-offers-1-2-m-reward-to-anyone-providing-an-isolated-sample-of-the-covid-19-virus/

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