JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks


Advertising


Australian Speakers Agency



GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper



Archives

Books

Tuesday Open Thread

8.6 out of 10 based on 14 ratings

155 comments to Tuesday Open Thread

  • #
    RicDre

    And now for something completely different:

    NASA’s Mars Perseverance Rover Provides Front-Row Seat to Landing, First Audio Recording of Red Planet

    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-s-mars-perseverance-rover-provides-front-row-seat-to-landing-first-audio

    Perseverance Navcams 360-Degree Panorama

    https://mars.nasa.gov/resources/25622/perseverance-navcams-360-degree-panorama/

    80

    • #

      that’s great footage. I’m looking forward to what this mission finds.

      93

      • #
        Dennis

        The end of Earth life as we know, climate hoax Church of Climate Change disciples, mega-rich information age woke globalist’s doomsday complex where they plan to live forever more, miserable underground on Mars with nowhere to spend their wealth and pretend to be elites?

        81

        • #
        • #
          David Maddison

          Fake news. It’s not the first audio recording from Mars. Sounds were first recorded in 2018.

          Dec 8, 2018
          RELEASE 18-113

          https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-insight-lander-hears-martian-winds

          NASA’s Interior Exploration using Seismic Investigations, Geodesy and Heat Transport (InSight) lander, which touched down on Mars just 10 days ago, has provided the first ever “sounds” of Martian winds on the Red Planet. A media teleconference about these sounds will be held today at 12:30 p.m. EST (9:30 a.m. PST).

          InSight sensors captured a haunting low rumble caused by vibrations from the wind, estimated to be blowing between 10 to 15 mph (5 to 7 meters a second) on Dec. 1, from northwest to southeast. The winds were consistent with the direction of dust devil streaks in the landing area, which were observed from orbit.

          “Capturing this audio was an unplanned treat,” said Bruce Banerdt, InSight principal investigator at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, California. “But one of the things our mission is dedicated to is measuring motion on Mars, and naturally that includes motion caused by sound waves.”

          51

          • #

            First of all if someone gets things wrong it is not necessarily fake or malicious.

            The article you linked to was about seismic recorders that unexpectedly detected wind vibrations. It was not audio – at least not from an audio device that could detect a wide range of frequencies, although technically produced a sound output of the narrow range in which it was capable. That sound was at 10 hertz and needed enhancing to be heard by the human ear. Note that it was not the actual sound of the wind, which would have a mix of higher frequencies, but the vibrations caused by the wind.

            In summary. The article was correct in the context of recording the actual sounds of Mars, and your shrill and pointless retort was wrong.

            00

            • #

              I meant to append this from the same article

              An even clearer sound from Mars is yet to come. In just a couple years, NASA’s Mars 2020 rover is scheduled to land with two microphones on board. The first, provided by JPL, is included specifically to record, for the first time, the sound of a Mars landing. The second is part of the SuperCam and will be able to detect the sound of the instrument’s laser as it zaps different materials. This will help identify these materials based on the change in sound frequency.

              00

      • #
        Frost Giant Rebellion

        It won’t be anything interesting Gee Aye. When NASA finds interesting stuff it goes straight down the memory hole.

        22

        • #
          • #
            Frost Giant Rebellion

            You better ask them Gee Aye. Think of how they managed to bury the two-lane wide glass tunnels, in a very bad state of disrepair? They are actually the Martian version of a farm. And we will have to build a lot more of them if we want to set up shop there. Or that hill that has been modified to look like a face from the air? Or that other hill that looked from the air to be a giant pyramid. But that looks from a lower angle to just be a hill sure …. But a modified hill. Perhaps the martian version of an ancient airport. Or the signs of open cut mining in yesteryear. They always bury anything thats interesting and there is almost no chance that they have a rover on Mars now. Not unless they were going for the fake-it-until-you-make-it strategy. Don’t ask me why the powerful people in society are always stealing and being deceptive. I can’t get inside their head.

            But there is no rover on Mars right now. NASA lies all the time. You ought to try science for a change and then you may be able to apply it to your tax eater job.

            02

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Thanks Ric. Very interesting and an impressive achievement.

      10

  • #
    RicDre

    The myth (and phony math) of ‘green’ jobs

    During the 2020 election campaign, Joe Biden asserted that more than 3 million Americans are already “employed in the clean energy economy.” He then boasted that, “if executed strategically, our response to climate change can create more than 10 million well-paying jobs in the United States that will grow a stronger, more inclusive middle class … and not just in cities along the coasts.”

    That would make Joe twice as boastful as his former boss, who promised the 2009 $787 billion stimulus package would create “over five million” green jobs. Four years later, the Brookings Institution reported that, “of the nearly 2.7 million ‘green jobs’ [the Obama-Biden Administration] identifies, most were bus drivers, sewage workers and other types of work that don’t fit the ‘green jobs of the future’” description.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/02/22/the-myth-and-phony-math-of-green-jobs/

    Also this link from the article:

    Fact Check: Biden Administration’s Green Jobs Claims Graded ‘Mostly False’

    https://heartlanddailynews.com/2021/02/fact-check-biden-administrations-green-jobs-claims-graded-mostly-false/

    170

    • #
      Jojodogfacedboy

      When President Trump pop’s back up…
      His collectors coins suggest that he wants to generate a “GREAT AWAKENING”.

      His Republican trap has now also caught the US Supreme Court as they failed Constitutionally when the State changed the voting rules illegally. This is 6 US Supreme Court Judges that will be stepping down.

      He has 10 Republicans Representatives still on the sidelines when their State was illegally taken over by the Democrats. It is their area of Constitution where foreign interference was involved.

      00

  • #
    RicDre

    Global Warming and China’s Coming War with Australia

    Guest opinion by David Archibald

    The Chicoms are the biggest near term threat to our health, wealth and wellbeing. What our American cousins call life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    The world’s China delusion is over. For decades our degenerate elite sold us out to Chinese interests.

    That included Colin Barnett giving a Chinese company preferential treatment in handing out land in the Ord Scheme, Andrew Robb taking $880,000 per year to promote Chinese interests, our Federal Government for allowing the sale of the Port of Darwin to Chinese interests, and the Federal Government again for so far neglecting to take it back, and our degenerate universities for prostituting themselves to have Chinese students. The list goes on.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/02/22/global-warming-and-chinas-coming-war-with-australia/

    170

    • #
      Chad

      Well, Australia has some history of conflict with China over Emissions regs..
      A previous P’minister , Kevin Rudd, ( unarguably the worst PM ever ),.. has been reported as having to be “physically restrained”. From punching a chinese negotiator when discussions broke down during the 2009 Climate conference .!…

      When the discussions broke down, Mr Rudd famously told a journalist that ‘those Chinese f***ers are trying to ratf*** us’.

      He is also famous for the leaked video of him trying to record a speech in Mandarin,.. and giving up after multiple failures and cursing about the “F**kin” stupid language”.. etc etc.
      … maybe that is why Australia is currently at a low point in Diplomatic relations with China. ?

      60

      • #
      • #
        Dennis

        Add diplomatic staffer, second secretary at the Beijng Australian Embassy, asked to welcome Chinese guests to an Embassy dinner speaking Mandarin he claimed to speak fluently, surprised guests when he told them to fornicate with their grandmothers.

        60

      • #
        Richard Jenkins

        Julia Gillard managed to make Kevin Rudd the second worst PM.
        Malcolm Turnbull certainly tried to take that title. Perhaps the Liberal party’s failure to recognise he was an extremist socialist has destroyed the Liberal Party.
        Scott Morrison enabled Turnball to avoid traditional Liberal values.
        Liberals will do well when they expose the globalist lies. That won the last election for them. They have failed and attack members that understand empirical data.
        South Australia should observe Texas.

        91

        • #
          TdeF

          The meaning of Liberal has changed completely. It now means progressive, change for change’s sake. It used to mean freedom of ideas. Now it means Climate Change which used to be Global Warming, until that didn’t happen.

          101

          • #
            Tilba Tilba

            The meaning of Liberal has changed completely. It now means progressive, change for change’s sake. It used to mean freedom of ideas. Now it means Climate Change which used to be Global Warming, until that didn’t happen.

            I actually think it’s the reverse of that … “liberal” (small-l) used to mean progressiveness, rationality, supporting the role of government and legislation to improve society, especially those who are the worst off, caring for the environment (“conservation”), believing in the value of education and assisting people, but also containing a strong role for a good moral compass, the importance of personal responsibility, etc.

            But almost all “liberal” intellectuals, academics, journalists (and editors), church leaders, and other opinion leaders have sold out to the corporate state – and I believe late-stage capitalism is far worse for it. Both “sides” of politics are now craven and scared of the power of the corporate state, and the mass media and “deep state” that support them, and keep the world the way they like it.

            Conservatives have gone down the rabbit-hole of being the serfs of the elites, in return for a few shiny baubles, while the social democratic side (Labor etc) has lost its union and worker base, relying on the soft-lefty middle class and a diverse rainbow of minority pressure-points.

            Nobody is taking on the corporate state in any area that I can see – even the Morrison Government “taking on” social media was most probably under pressure from Murdoch and other big media players.

            Trump claimed he was going to take on the globalists, elites, and the deep state (“drain the swamp”), but he really was one of them, and he didn’t deliver … he wasn’t the Messiah, he was just a naughty boy (actually a shameless crook).

            04

  • #
    • #
      Leo Morgan

      Thanks for that Krishna.
      Yet to me, this report reads like Democrat reporting, with headlines at variance with the content.

      Specifically the article you provided says that the Biden Administration authorised increased use of diesel, coal and gas generators, even though the increase was limited to those necessary to deal with the emergency.
      The imposition of the requirement for a revised environmental impact statement was heavy-handed and bureaucratic, and more to the point useless, but that’s the extent to which the Administration actually intervened.

      So as I read it, this particular article is a nothing-burger.

      61

    • #
      Dennis

      Was this an executive order from poor old JoeBama’s centrally heated basement?

      40

    • #
      bobn

      This article on the EPA order needs more investigation. How was this order interpreted and what did ERCOT do and why? There is still plenty we havent been told.
      From the link the EPA only authorised ‘operation only as needed to maintain the reliability of the power grid’. Does this mean that ERCOT limited gas generation to ONLY the minimum to stop grid collapse? Or did ERCOT ask for every gas tap to be turned on full to meet all demand?
      The questions still need answers.

      20

    • #
      yarpos

      Not really surprising , Green virtue signaling is always more important than peoples lives, be it freezing Texans or kiddie cobalt miners or Tesla victims. You know, no cost is too great, it for the kiddies (well some of them anyway)

      10

  • #
    Leo Morgan

    In response to the lessons learned from the 2014 Polar Vortex Rick Perry, Secretary of Energy in the Trump Administration proposed regulations that would have encouraged gas and coal power plants to retain 90 days fuel supply on-site. That was back in 2017.

    “If you can guarantee me that the wind is going to blow tomorrow, if you can guarantee me that the sun’s going to get to the solar panels…then I’ll buy into that. But you can’t,” said Perry.

    The notice of public rulemaking, or NOPR, implies that there is a looming threat to grid reliability due to coal and nuclear power plant retirements. Its conclusions are largely based on an incomplete analysis of the 2014 polar vortex, which could have led to blackouts had several coal-fired plants now slated for closure not been available to serve the load.

    The move has been widely criticized by clean energy advocates as politically motivated and factually unproven, and has drawn a backlash from major sectors of the energy industry.

    I admit I don’t know why the Administration didn’t just go ahead with it.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/02/20/the-trump-energy-resilience-plan-which-would-have-saved-texas/

    60

    • #
      Leo Morgan

      I should fully read articles I submit.
      Here’s the information I earlier said I didn’t know:
      The reason the Administration didn’t go ahead was that the Federal Energy Regulatory Committee (FERC) rejected the order.
      [The]order, filed unexpectedly just two days before FERC’s deadline for making a decision, found that DOE hasn’t marshaled (sic) the evidence that the existing market rules are “unjust and unreasonable,” a key bar for making the radical changes it suggests.

      Importantly, FERC’s order notes that DOE failed to provide evidence to back Perry’s claims that retiring coal and nuclear plants represented an existential threat to grid reliability and “resilience,” one it used the justify its demand for FERC to act outside of its usual channels to make changes within a matter of months.

      In addition, I should correct my earlier error. The proposal applied only to coal and nuclear plants, not gas.

      31

      • #
        Chad

        In addition, I should correct my earlier error. The proposal applied only to coal and nuclear plants, not gas.

        Ahh !, thanks, i was scratching my head as to how a gas generator plant could store 3 months worh of gas supply ?

        20

      • #
        yarpos

        Nobody likes to pay for insurance, at least until the worst happens. Then suddenly it seems like a really good idea, but in the meantime the Government should pick up the tab. I guess at least this is a shortcut to the Govt/taxpayer picking up the tab as they took the risk on behalf of the taxpayers. You representatives at work.

        10

  • #
    Dennis

    I am still shaking my head after learning that the just over thirty woke WA Leader Of The Opposition, a Liberal Party MP, has announced that if his Coalition is elected to govern they will immediately close the coal fired power stations providing the WA Grid with reliable baseload electricity in favour of unreliable wind and solar.

    He failed to mention feeder transmission lines and very expensive and complicated “firming” back up equipment, or that his favourite batteries are short term bursts of energy suppliers that then require days or weeks of recharging.

    111

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Don’t worry Dennis. We Western Australians are not woke dopes.

      The Liberal Party is in melt-down. It’s toxic. It’ll be lucky if it saves three or four seats in the lower house. The Lord has remembered. It’s not worth a zac.

      121

    • #
      yarpos

      Should send him some news links from Weatherdills reign in SA. I guess he thinks he will get it right this time (being a genius and all)

      10

  • #
    Dennis

    I have come to the conclusion that the old days of Liberal-National verses Labor and Greens have passed.

    Today there are the LINO-NINO verses real Liberal-National and Union Labor-Greens marching to the globalist new world order tune together.

    Unfortunately the left to far left is in the majority combined forces.

    Sovereignty threatened more as every year passes.

    90

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Seems that the likes of Craig Kelly are the only true liberals left but even he has now ditched the party , will be interesting to see if he joins up with the Nats or One Nation .

      110

    • #
      Len

      It has been recently anounced that Craig Kelly has quit the Liberals and will be now sitting on the cross benches. He said he will support the government on supply and confidence.

      20

      • #
        Richard Jenkins

        Craig Kelly should join Bernardi. There are a few who may follow. Bernardi wanted the Liberals to respect Menzies values.
        Turnbull destroyed the membership ideology. Many left. Morrison is not keeping energy and coal promises. The National Party are losing focus.
        The noise does not represent the majority. WOKE should be woken up. They annoy most of us.
        Just to swear I write, she, her, his,woman, mother, father, boy, girl, breast, blacklist, white lie, amen, chairman, manuscript, lady, gentleman, doorman, …….
        That feels better.
        How many of Turnball’s staff (green) remain in the PM office?

        71

    • #
      el gordo

      Frank Zumbo is the reason Kelly moved to the cross bench.

      11

      • #
        Chris

        Actually, Craig Kelly said he made the move so he could have more room to advocate for better health programs for Sars- Cov-2 patients. He said he wanted to get Ivermectin +zinc out to the Australian public , and he felt that medical bureaucrats had refused to keep up to date with the research and their behaviour may have been responsible for many deaths and the lock down of our society.

        Craig has put his career on the line. It takes guts and moral fibre – Craig is a brave and honourable man.

        110

  • #
    Dennis

    Re Nuclear Energy Power Stations to provide emissions-free (CO2 focus of course if you are a woke globalist) energy.

    * The cost of one nuclear power station is several times higher than an equivalent generator capacity HELE coal fired power station.
    * Australia has centuries of coal in the ground at the present rate of global consumption.
    * Australia also has an abundance of uranium, and thorium, and salt.
    * To construct a nuclear power station requires decades, coal fired power station a couple of years to commission.
    * The expense and unsatisfactory performance of so called renewables/unreliables and perceived emissions reduction is not cost effective.

    61

    • #
      RickWill

      Dennis stated:

      Australia has centuries of coal in the ground at the present rate of global consumption.

      Current annual rate of coal consumption is 8Gt. Proven reserves in Australia are 150Gt. The maths gives me just 19 years of global consumption from Australian sources.

      The globe has managed to wean off 2% of fossil fuels this century; equivalent to 1% per decade. So if the present pace can be maintained then in 1000 years the globe could be fully weaned off fossil fuel. I do not think the supplies will last that long.

      China has proven reserves of 138Gt. They are using 3.8Gt per year. So they have 36 years left. US has the largest proven reserve and not using much these days so they will be able to help China out. Luckily Biden is their man and Trump was willing to make a buck any way he can. Biden might lose his faithful if US increase the pace of exporting coal under his watch but that will not make any difference to an election outcome.

      Reserves have some price marginality and a 20 year reserves pipeline is healthy for a mining company. It is never easy to know the full picture because there is not much point spending on proving reserves for the sake of it. That said, I expect that within a hundred years, the world will be spending a lot more to find and extract coal if the present rate of consumption continues. Australia is in good shape but Chinese citizens might see Australia as a handy prize when they are cold and no power is available from the power point. Chine has even back-pedalled on its reasons to prevent ships transporting coal from Australia from unloading once it got cold.

      Wind and solar in the present form, if used wisely, can extend the time to find a viable alternate energy source.

      24

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Not sure where your figures come from Rick, as the last set of figures I’ve seen stated that at current Aust. coal consumption rates, we still have around 780 years of coal left.

        40

      • #
        Steve Keppel-Jones

        Australian coal consumption appears to be around 129 Mt p.a., so that’s almost two orders of magnitude lower than your figure, Rick. Are you perhaps referring to global coal consumption, hypothetically fed exclusively by Australia’s reserves?

        30

      • #
        yarpos

        Peak coal has arrived. At least it lasts longer than AOC’s end of the world prediction.

        10

    • #
      Chrism

      Dennis
      February 23, 2021 at 10:22 am · Reply
      Re Nuclear Energy Power Stations to provide emissions-free (CO2 focus of course if you are a woke globalist) energy.

      * The cost of one nuclear power station is several times higher than an equivalent generator capacity HELE coal fired power station.
      * To construct a nuclear power station requires decades, coal fired power station a couple of years to commission.

      UAE have Koreans build nuclear plant from start of construction power generation in EIGHT years
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant

      requires decades
      no cigar, not even close Dennis …. decades = 20+ years v 8

      30

      • #
        Frost Giant Rebellion

        Yes that all sounds right to me Chrism. So we have to get started NOW with slowly slowly improving the cost-effectiveness of nuclear. Even as we go for at least two more generations of high-tech coal electricity production.

        The very poor current cost-effectiveness of nuclear is not something that was carved out of rock, or pulled from a burning bush. We know we can improve the cost-effectiveness of nuclear over the decades, so long as we get started and work on it continually.

        02

      • #
        Graeme#4

        China are building four 1GW nuclear plants for a total of US$10.2 bn.

        00

      • #
        Lucky

        Eight years for Korea. Ok. But the Western Australia State Energy Commission was working on a nuke station from about 1978. Aim was to have it operational in the mid nineties.

        00

        • #
          yarpos

          Korea doesnt have the Australian Public Service (State and Federal) or the CFMEU. I doubt we will see a nuke plant this century. Exhibit A , Sydney 2nd airport.

          10

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Have you any actual comparison figures Dennis? I’m not questioning your statement, just interested in the actual data.

      00

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Craig Kelly has quit the Liberal party , good stuff.

    150

    • #
      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        What a pity the we in Australia are unable to conduct an informed discussion on possible treatments for Covid-19 without resorting to ad hominem attacks and left-wing political hits

        Gee Aye’s “sure is” comment is a classic example of the snide sneer that people like him have perfected in the absence of any ability to consider the broader evidence.

        Craig Kelly MP was prepared to open up the discussion. Labor and it’s woke femi members like Tania Plibersek only want to play games. And, suck contributions from bigpharma and its agents.

        In Israel, for example, its not unusual to see the broader discussion taking place – in the media and elsewhere. The attached link is an exemplar of how an intelligent society goes about considering important issues. In this case, alternative treatments for Covid-19 if, and when, it becomes clear that the vaccine might not be the silver bullet.

        Israeli scientists and researchers are racing to find a cure for COVID-19, as global consensus is forming among medical professionals that vaccination is not going to eliminate corona.

        https://www.jpost.com/health-science/five-israeli-companies-fighting-for-a-covid-19-cure-659456

        Perhaps you should read it Gee Aye. Then think about your motivations.

        250

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          What broader evidence, your hero is spurting nonsense, it is not, and never has been, part of an intelligent discussion.

          321

        • #

          What a lot of hopeful talking points. And you accused me of sneering?

          regarding the ” global consensus is forming among medical professionals “, that was thus a long time ago though awaiting the evidence to define the terms and conditions.

          Of course it is probable that we will not eliminate the virus – it is rare that we ever do and there are reasons for that success when it happens – and that scientists are looking at therapies other than vaccination. They did so as soon as the virus was identified. I think you have a bitterness that the ones you thought were being suppressed are actually crap.

          215

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            the ones you thought were being suppressed are actually crap.

            The complete disregard of evidence by the lefties is apparent in Gee Aye’s rant where, again, we see a demonstration of the gaping void in the brain of the green-left.

            Are you really that much of a ninny that you don’t know that “The Lancet” and “The New England Journal of Medicine” retracted their articles on the dangers of HCQ because of the unsustainable claims made in the papers they published? Oh! The embarrassment for the two (supposedly) leading medical journals.

            Are you such a nincompoop that you don’t know that the AMA (American) withdrew it advisory on not using HCQ in November 2020? That occurred just after the two above journals had to retract their erroneous papers on HCQ. See Resolution 509:

            https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/2020-10/nov20-handbook-addendum.pdf

            Are you totally unaware of the significant differences demonstrated in the studies (that have been referenced here on this site over the last 6 months or more) in Covid outcomes for those treated with HCQ and those who were not?

            Let me show you what you need to read to do your revision of the topic.

            https://joannenova.com.au/?s=HCQ+studies

            51

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Oh, and Gee Aye, here’s a bit more for you to catch up on:

              Lagier et al. Outcomes of 3,737 COVID-19 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin and other regimens in Marseille, France: A retrospective analysis. Travel Med Infect Dis
              (Jul-Aug 2020).

              Treatment with HCQ-AZ was associated with a decreased risk of transfer to ICU or death (Hazard ratio (HR) 0.18 0.11-0.27), decreased risk of hospitalization ≥10 days (odds ratios 95% CI 0.38 0.27-0.54) and shorter duration of viral shedding (time to negative PCR: HR 1.29 1.17-1.42). QTc prolongation (>60 ms) was observed in 25 patients (0.67%) leading to the cessation of treatment in 12 cases including 3 cases with QTc> 500 ms. No cases of torsade de pointe or sudden death were observed.
              Conclusion: Although this is a retrospective analysis, results suggest that early diagnosis, early isolation and early treatment of COVID-19 patients, with at least 3 days of HCQ-AZ lead to a significantly better clinical outcome and a faster viral load reduction than other treatments.

              https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32593867/

              Roland Derwanda, Martin Scholzb, Vladimir Zelenko. COVID-19 outpatients: early risk-stratified treatment with zinc plus low-dose hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin: a retrospective case series study. International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, Volume 56, Issue 6, December 2020, 106214

              141 patients (median age 58 years, IQR 40–67 years; 73.0% male) received a prescription for triple therapy for 5 days. Independent public reference data from 377 confirmed COVID-19 patients in the same community were used as untreated controls. Of 141 treated patients, 4 (2.8%) were hospitalised, which was significantly fewer (P < 0.001) compared with 58 (15.4%) of 377 untreated patients [odds ratio (OR) = 0.16, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.06–0.5]. One patient (0.7%) in the treatment group died versus 13 patients (3.4%) in the untreated group (OR = 0.2, 95% CI 0.03–1.5; P = 0.12). No cardiac side effects were observed. Risk stratification-based treatment of COVID-19 outpatients as early as possible after symptom onset using triple therapy, including the combination of zinc with low-dose hydroxychloroquine, was associated with significantly fewer hospitalisations.

              https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920304258#bib0022

              Yi Su et al. Efficacy of early hydroxychloroquine treatment in preventing COVID-19 pneumonia aggravation, the experience from Shanghai, China. BioScience Trends.

              The early use of hydroxychloroquine was a protective factor associated with disease aggravation (95% CI: 0.040-0.575, p = 0.006). Clinical improvement by 20 days was significantly different between patients with hydroxychloroquine used early and those with hydroxychloroquine not used (p = 0.016, 95% CI: 1.052-1.647).

              https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bst/advpub/0/advpub_2020.03340/_article/-char/ja/

              Huang et al. Preliminary evidence from a multicenter prospective observational study of the safety and efficacy of chloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19. National Science Review, Volume 7, Issue 9, September 2020.

              The median time to achieve an undetectable viral RNA was shorter in chloroquine than in non-chloroquine (absolute difference in medians −6.0 days; 95% CI −6.0 to −4.0). The duration of fever is shorter in chloroquine (geometric mean ratio 0.6; 95% CI 0.5 to 0.8). No serious adverse events were observed in the chloroquine group.

              https://academic.oup.com/nsr/article/7/9/1428/5848167

              Hong et al. Early Hydroxychloroquine Administration for Rapid Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Eradication. Infect Chemother. 2020 Sep;52(3):396-402. English.

              Early administration of HCQ significantly ameliorates inflammatory cytokine secretion by eradicating COVID-19, at discharge. Our findings suggest that patients confirmed of COVID-19 infection should be administrated HCQ as soon as possible.

              https://icjournal.org/DOIx.php?id=10.3947/ic.2020.52.3.396

              Now do your homework. Read it.

              60

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                In moderation again. 🙂

                Will I be accused of Gish Galloping next?

                [Just the filter SS, Gish Galloping is something I’ll never accuse you of.]AD

                20

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                🙂

                Never you Mod.

                And, no doubt, you’ve inoculated me from the culprit I had in mind.

                10

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              The why and what about the retractions is summarised here
              https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/the-top-retractions-of-2020-68284
              But of course, you are free not to consider data or facts when posting your drivel

              18

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                There should be a full stop after your drivel.

                60

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                The perpetual flow of instant messaging fears a heavy full stop – it means the conversation is over, or that you’re being sarcastic, or angry. (NewStatesman) – I’m guessing you are angry that I did not want to terminate the conversation

                Try to keep up – this has been normal since 2013

                314

            • #

              Any particular reason for the name calling? By your definition just about everyone is a nincompoop.

              Perhaps find a rational response with a relevant argument before you take on someone you think is a lefty just for the sake of it.

              210

            • #
              tom0mason

              Interesting that you mention retracted research papers, Retraction Watch now shows 71 retractions of papers about COVID and quite a few others with concerns. See https://retractionwatch.com/retracted-coronavirus-covid-19-papers/ for more.

              50

          • #
            Frost Giant Rebellion

            So Gee Aye? You are telling me you don’t know how to treat Covid-19? After 19 months you still have no idea? That what you trying to say?

            82

        • #
          Roger Knights

          The Jerusalem Post Introduces the Sheba Medical Center-Sponsored Ivermectin Randomized, Controlled Double Blinded Findings
          By TrialSite Staff February 14, 2021

          https://trialsitenews.com/the-jerusalem-post-introduces-the-sheba-medical-center-sponsored-ivermectin-randomized-controlled-double-blinded-findings/

          00

      • #

        He has been given the indication that he wont be supported for preselection. The local branch will be relieved that they can get a candidate that represents them.

        The nats will have a go at getting him to swap to them in a misguided attempt to have him in place as an unopposed (by Libs) candidate in Hughes next election, though the efforts for this might not make the media if it doesn’t happen.

        29

        • #
          el gordo

          The Nets are unlikely to woo Kelly. I reckon the former mayor and vice-president of the state Liberal Party Kent Johns will get the nod, he was the front runner at the pre-selection.

          11

  • #
    graham dunton

    For the likes of Leo, and others, this may be of some interest?
    Rumble —Texas- The Heartland Institute’s
    Donald Kendal and Jim Lakely are joined by Isaac Orr and Brent Bennett in episode 282 of the In The Tank Podcast. Brent Bennett, a policy director at the Texas Public Policy Foundation joins the show to talk about the recent snowstorm, cold weather, and the resulting blackouts that recently occurred in Texas. Just how much of this problem can be attributed to renewable energy penetration in the Lone Star State?

    https://rumble.com/vdyr35-in-the-tank-podcast-ep-282-texas-winter-blackouts-renewable-energy-to-blame.html

    30

  • #
    Dennis

    People who criticise the Australian Government’s space technology agenda must not know about Helium-3 that was discovered when analysing soil from the Moon, not much of it here on Earth but in abundance in Moon soil.

    China refers to Helium-3 as “the perfect fuel”, it can be used in a reactor for power station fuel and one US Space Shuttle load could provide generated electricity for the US for one year, therefore the high cost of obtaining supply would be cost effective.

    Planning has been underway for decades, robot factories on the Moon, robot excavators, Moon soil processed to extract Helium-3 and convert it to compressed liquid gas state.

    Research.

    80

    • #
      Serp

      We must be sure to let Lily d’Ambrosio know about this downward pressure on prices that will arise from mining on the moon.

      30

  • #
    RickWill

    A follow on from the weekend with regard to my question about cold oceans.

    The answer can be summed up in one diagram:
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq1iAj8Yo7jNhBoZm3-qfeXv2_i6

    Another rare property of water that makes the planet work. Basically the coldest water is always on the bottom unless it is really cold when it is on the top. It is hard to believe there is no intelligent design behind the properties of water.

    So oceans can never be in static equilibrium. They are fed cold water at the poles and warm water is evaporated in the tropics so it is always in motion; always in vertical motion as well as the lateral and rotating currents.

    I am very confident that absolutely no one on earth knows when the oceans reach dynamic equilibrium. What I do know is that analysing the ocean circulation is INCREDIBLY complex. I found a paper that sets out the agreed parameters for modelling seawater:
    http://www.scor-int.org/Publications/Thermodynamic_TEOS-10_Manual_GOSHIP_19Aug09.pdf
    So 144 pages to set out the parameters to just define seawater. That is before any modelling starts. Atmospheric physics is not even pre-school level compared with this stuff.

    Fortunately none of it matters because the ocean surface temperature is thermostatically controlled. It does not matter if they are not at the dynamic equilibrium for the present surface conditions because the amount of energy in the oceans is meaningless with regard to the surface condition. Ocean water is mostly very cold. The tiny bit of heat uptake that is retained in the mixed layer at the tropics is all gone by the time it reaches the sea ice. And there the cold water just goes deep unless it is really cold and then it stays on the surface and eventually forms ice that reduces the rate of heat loss, unless it is saturated with salt enabling warmer water to go deep – FANTASTIC.

    If it was not clear, CO2 plays ZERO role in the global surface heat balance. It does get 4 mentions in the seawater document, playing a very minor role in how seawater behaves. But again that does not alter the way the oceans work.

    92

    • #
      Harley

      I think you’ve nailed the water thingy business Will. You should send it to CSIRO for comment and don’t forget the intelligent design bit .

      41

    • #
      Chris

      Thank you Rickwell, As someone who sits in the intelligent design camp may I mention that water expands at
      3 degrees C and as you mention; floats. If water froze from the bottom up there would no life left in the bottom layers and as a consequence ocean and fresh water ecosystems would completely break down.

      20

  • #
    Hanrahan

    I remember Biden making the amazing statement [I paraphrase] that: I will not lock down the country, I will lock down the virus.

    Well the US has just passed half a mill WuFlu deaths and I have seen nothing which convinces me that ANYTHING has changed. The US has done badly controlling the virus but from here, down under, it looks as if their problem is primarily politics, where, like here, health is a State responsibility and trying to get 50 Governors working together is like herding cats.

    In spite of health being a state responsibility the dems laid all the blame at the feet of Trump. What has changed that such blame does not now lay at Biden’s feet?

    100

    • #
      Dennis

      JoeBama had the hide to claim recently that until he was confirmed to be President there was no COVID-19 vaccine in sight, but apparently he forgot that he was vaccinated on television.

      Poor old fella.

      90

    • #
      Muzza

      The so-called ‘half a mil WuFlu deaths’ – don’t seem to cause much, if any, of a bump in the rolling 5 year ‘deaths from all causes’ to 2020. Seems that the WuFlu has miraculously cured most other life threatening ailments??

      131

  • #
    Rod

    From the USA but the deal should be the same worldwide. ie no more inept, career politicians bleeding the public purse dry for life, with salaries disproportionate to their competencies and ridiculously large self-awarded pay rises. One term and you’re OUT.Go back your old career or find another one. Also, an end to parliamentary privilege. You slander or libel someone then you can be sued.

    The TRUMP Rules: Congressional Reform Act of 2017

    1. No Tenure / No Pension. A Congressman/woman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they’re out of office. And, no more perks go with them.

    2. Congress (past, present, & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

    3. Congress must purchase their own retirement plan, just as ALL Americans do.

    4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

    5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

    6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people (i.e. NO MORE INSIDER TRADING!!!).

    7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen/women are void. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen/women. Congress made all these contracts by and for themselves.

    10

  • #
    Furiously curious

    Interesting numbers from an article on Iceagenow. It shows some wonderful fudging.

    https://www.iceagenow.info/the-myth-and-phony-math-of-green-jobs/

    10

    • #
      Maptram

      “Energy economist Tilak Doshi agrees the West’s fascination with renewables-only de-carbonization, and ultimately de-industrialization, is a recipe for economic suicide. He notes that Germany’s “green” world involves behemoth wind turbines with blades made of petroleum-based, fiberglass-reinforced resins; motors built with iron and rare earths extracted, processed and smelted using fossil fuels; concrete that also requires fossil fuels; and factories run on coal and natural gas. Solar panels have the same pedigree.”

      Tilak Doshi mentions that concrete also requires fossil fuels. He didn’t mention that a principal component of concrete is cement that which emits CO2 in it’s production.

      81

  • #
    Susan Fraser

    https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/a-deleted-bill-gates-documentary-has-been-revived/

    Ok Robert F. Kennedy Jr got his twitter canceled writing “The most frightening epidemics in Congo, the Philippines and Afghanistan are all linked to Gates’ vaccines. By 2018, 3/4 of global polio cases were from Gates’ vaccines.”

    This was from Howell Woltz latest esssy Feb 22 2021 on Richardsonpost.com

    I had to go looking
    … vomiting with shock after reading Woltz, this documentary with Gates’ own words leaves me questioning everything I’ve ever heard read or seen from main stream media.

    101

  • #
    another ian

    Horse’s Mouth

    “Our reader GM gets a reply from the PM – why do people in India and elsewhere have access to HCQ, Ivermectin and Zinc?”

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/02/our-reader-gm-gets-a-reply-from-the-pm-why-do-people-in-india-and-elsewhere-have-access-to-hcq-iverm.html

    50

  • #
  • #
    another ian

    For those of experimental bent

    “Experiment: Coffee Sensitivity To Salt & Carbonate”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2021/02/22/experiment-coffee-sensitivity-to-salt-carbonate/

    00

  • #
    another ian

    “Scientists unearth a consequence of solar panels in the Sahara…”

    Link at

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/02/22/we-dont-need-no-stinking-giant-mirrors-20/

    20

  • #
    el gordo

    Force them to lose face, good move by Canavan.

    ‘Nationals senator Matt Canavan says we in Australia should not be cutting our emissions targets unless China makes a similar move.’ (Daily Tele)

    71

  • #
    Richard Jenkins

    Protect your sons.
    I know many young male victims of female allegations.
    Amongst a female work place suggestions of reporting suspicions was a radio topic.
    A young woman listening with us said,”That’s what my mother wanted me to say happened!”
    Footballers are prime targets.

    Why aren’t girls charged with sexual assults?
    Well publicized in Melbourne a female teacher took a male student home. She got a smack on the hand.
    If the gender were reversed the teacher would be jailed.

    91

    • #
      Serp

      Search engine query “female teachers jailed for molesting boys in victoria” returns enough cases to confound your assertion.

      10

      • #
        Richard Jenkins

        Serp,
        I searched the case I had referred when I wrote. Interestngly originally there was no jail sentence. 2 years later the PE mother of three was sentenced to 2 years deferred with 6 months to be served. Her career is destroyed. She is on the sex offender’s list.
        I had not followed after the early trial. It was a local school and I knew staff and students.
        I worked professionally in the penal system. Hence my experience with youths labelled sex offenders that are innocent. Courts disallowing important evidence to supposedly protect the victim sends guys to jail. Sam Newman said girls lie. That does not mean all girls lie. Lot’s do. Lying to parents and jealously are common motives.
        When working a blue light disco mid 80s police women were rare. I surveyed the hall surrounds with a policewoman and asked her what she did. She said that mainly she interviewed girls who claimed they had been raped. Staggered I asked her why she said claimed. She answered that after questioning most admitted they hadn’t been raped.

        00

  • #
    Richard Jenkins

    I am not an antivaccine person.
    The Duke of Edinborough had ta vaccine shot. He is now in hospital. Unknown illness????
    I am curious. Is his illness unreportable?

    60

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Drawing a long bow there. The Gent is about to roll 100.

      12

      • #
        Lucky

        What could be the justification for making him have the vax?

        00

      • #
        Richard Jenkins

        My curiosity is the unknown illness.
        Using the age and ill as a delete from statistics the covid deaths are almost nil.
        The lockdown killed. The world economy is suffering. My grandchildren will be paying indfinately.
        I would not isolate from them if they had had covid (antibodies). Perhaps off colour a couple of days.
        Antibody tests make sense. Other tests do not show if you have recovered or got the virus soon after the test.
        Most antibody positive results are people who did not even feel ill.
        I trust antibody positive above vaccine.

        20

        • #
          Richard Jenkins

          My interest deepens. An illness became an infection and is now a kidney infection.
          Kidneys fiter the blood. What were the dukes blood filtering?

          00

    • #
      tonyb

      Richard

      He is nearly 100 and was in the same hospital a couple of years ago for what seems to be the same problem, an infection of some sort.

      By definition a high percentage of the over 85’s who had the vaccine over the last 3 months will unfortunately die of something unrelated in the next 3 months.

      10

      • #
        Frost Giant Rebellion

        They won’t have a chance to die of something else. The over 85’s will be killed off by the vaccine. But this idea that we can trust that the elite are getting the vaccine? Not that smart an idea. Its the oligarchy that are making us take proven inappropriate vaccines. So its a them versus us operation. If it is said that one of them has taken the vaccine that isn’t necessarily so.

        21

      • #
        Richard Jenkins

        Tony,
        They said it was not the same problem.
        Today they have decided it is an infection.
        That is a vague explanation. Why not more specific? Why dd it take a week to disclose? How did his xxx get infected?

        00

  • #
    David Wojick

    UN calls for contraction and convergence to low living standards
    By David Wojick
    https://www.cfact.org/2021/02/23/un-calls-for-contraction-and-convergence-to-low-living-standards/

    Here is a central excerpt:
    First we get 100 pages of planetary crisis, the usual litany of computer projected horrors to come. Then on Page 102 we find eight “Key areas for transformations change.” Most of these are the usual empty, feel good stuff, but two are not. Here they are:
    “2. Consumption, population and waste: Reduce the negative global effect of human needs and demand – a function of consumption and production rates, population size, and waste – by reducing per capita consumption and production in some regions and human population growth in others.“ (Emphasis added)

    “4. Inequalities: Systematically reduce inequalities in income and other forms, including across gender, race and class.” (Emphasis added)

    This doctrine is not new and it has a name: Contraction and Convergence. In some cases the term refers to emission levels but in this case the basic idea is very simple. The developed economies like America are to contract by reducing per capita consumption and production. The poorest countries are allowed to improve a bit, but every economy on Earth is supposed to then converge to a single (low) standard of living. I am not making this up.

    Think of this as social justice on steroids. Everyone’s income should be equal and it cannot be at the American or European level, so we have to drop down to where it can be. It is truly ironic that the principal sponsor of this study is the European Union, since they are high on the contraction list.

    Not surprisingly the obvious central questions are not addressed. How much contraction? How much is equal income? In short, what is the UN target? What low universal standard of living are we shooting for?

    Please share this.

    David

    102

  • #
    williamx

    Why do we have governments?

    Simple…. They look after us.

    For example.

    If we replaced our cars with EVs… It will be a problem…

    15 million cars reliant on the grid… hmmmm

    I have thought about it. But the MSM tells me all will be good. I believe them.

    Don’t worry. A Govt will form a department which will direct each of us, when to charge our EVs if the grid is overloaded.

    But… the grid is still 80% fossil fuel powered…
    OK this is a roadblock.
    This is a problem. Politicians don’t like to admit or support that we are still heavily reliant on fossil fuels.

    Ok, so if our Govt. blames catastrophic climate change on fossil fuels. Problem solved.
    You and I, will be legislated, to buy carbon credit offsets from merchant bankers.

    A noble idea. We want people to be better off with our governments climate change policies.

    This policy, in action, will be a success as the struggling bankers will increase their wealth.

    The Govt tells me that this policy will stimulate the economy. And rightly so.
    There is nothing like a rich merchant Banker to heavily invest in the cash cow of renewables.

    We are slowly being indoctrinated… By the MSM and Govt… We are told that If we drive a state of the art EV, we can feel good about it, tell all our friends how socially responsible we are, whilst not realising that we have been sold a lemon.

    And if it all goes wrong, It will always be our fault.

    I cannot see a problem.

    60

    • #
      Chad

      #
      williamx
      February 23, 2021 at 9:46 pm ·…

      15 million cars reliant on the grid… hmmmm

      It wont get to 15 m ,even in 50 years time.
      I will be surprised if it reaches 5 m by 2050.
      ..Lots of changes by then on the grid…..and in government !

      30

      • #
        Hanrahan

        The manufacturers are pushing EVs into the market rather than the market wanting to buy the EVs. If they don’t build them themselves they would need to buy their get out of jail free card from Musk.

        With the new Bolt coming soon Chevvy showrooms are full of the current model. I have heard of someone leasing one for just under $100/m. That’s a cheap second car.

        10

        • #
          Chad

          With the new Bolt coming soon Chevvy showrooms are full of the current model. I have heard of someone leasing one for just under $100/m. That’s a cheap second car.

          Aaah !…if only it could happen !….
          …..but never here in Oz.

          00

  • #
    wert

    Corona in Finland.

    Schools are open, daycare is open, people may move around, restaurants are open with limitations. There are some limitations to international travel. People are wearing masks when they are in enclosed public spaces, but the police are not enforcing it. People seem to be optimistic once the wintertime ends, the epidemy will go away. About 5 per cent of the population has been vaccinated. About 0.01 per cent of population is diagnosed on daily basis. Daily, less than 0.0001 per cent of people dies of covid.

    Corona season ends in about 6 weeks, though we don’t yet know how badly the new variants will resist the summer.

    Solar inclination differs here between some 6 degrees (winter solstice noon) above the horizon to max 54 degrees in the midsummer, so there will be a considerable change in many variables. People get sick during the winter, and will be more healthy once the spring starts. We have no conclusive data on why it happens but the seasonality is one clear driver.

    We see Sweden has made a lot of dead compared to Finland and Norway, but overall the mortality in Sweden has not been so bad. It’s been speculated that the driving forces in deaths are obesity, age, general health, vitamin D insufficiency (sometimes driven by diet, habits, pigment), plus some very random factors such as initial viral load, and cross-immunity.

    I think Oz is a Covid panic madhouse, given how Oz has so little deaths compared even the good places in Europe, such as Norway or Finland. And look how Cuomo could not do a good thing with lots of obese and old people with vitamin D insufficiency, but everybody was telling it is because Trump is racist lol.

    https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11212596 — covid news from Finland in Finnish – you may google translate.

    Notice this is the BBC/NPR of Finland, so it will stick to the Narrative whenever it comes to question. So Trump is evil, Biden brings optimism, masks are NOT needed but then necessary, Covid is dangerous. The Narrative has not yet concluded how to think about Sweden. Sweden is good better than us you know, but we need to look away from the mortality there. Or look at the mortality and put the blame on the Nationalists. We haven’t yet fully decided on that. Belgium – definitely not caused by bad politics. Florida – definitely a political mess.)

    20

  • #
    Chris

    Dear Jo, My comment on water was deleted and I don’t know why . If you could let know what I said was wrong or not acceptable.

    regards
    Chris

    20

    • #
      williamx

      Chris,

      An esteemed academic once stated.. “There will be no more water”
      Maybe Tim Flannery is on moderator duties tonight.

      I am sure it will be sorted.

      20

  • #
    CHRIS

    Go Wert. I’m in Oz, and have an ex-GF now living in Helsinki. What you say is true; the situation in Finland is, in part, due to the seasonal variations and the subsequent amount of daylight, which would differ greatly between South Finland and Lapland. I don’t think I would like to live in a winter where there are only a few hours of ” sunshine” every day, especially coupled with COVID.

    10

  • #
    RicDre

    Big Tech Backflip: Facebook Drops Australian News Ban, Bows to Government Regulation

    In an extraordinary backflip, Facebook announced Tuesday it will reverse its block on Australian users sharing news on its site and accept proposed government media bargaining laws that force it to pay for content.

    https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2021/02/23/big-tech-backflip-facebook-drops-australian-news-ban-bows-to-government-regulation/

    20

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    Covid is not defeated, but seems managable.
    Covid politics is now far more dangerous.
    Actuaries tell us that, regrettably, about 3,000,000 Americans were fated to pass away last year.
    They did so, this being the human condition.
    500,000 were attributed to Covid, and have been weaponized. By both sides. With near equal lack of candor and clarity.
    I struggle to see very many fatalities above those expected in the numbers.
    There are probably a number of Covid based excess fatalities, possibly masked by a reduction in activity based fatalities.

    We were told yesterday that the performance of the US was about the worst among the nations of the earth, by our president.
    Our science guru suggested we would be locked down until 2022.

    I don’t think we can believe anything our government tells us any more.

    90

  • #
    Flyboy 46

    Hey, Covid cured the flu season. NO flu deaths this year. And several other diseases. DUH? Can you say SCAM to scare us and take our money.

    90

  • #
    Kim

    Geeze, looking at our state Libs they’re a non starter. Totally disconnected from their electorate, from the real world.

    10

  • #
    • #
      Hanrahan

      Dr John Campbell, what we would call a “nurse educator”, has done daily blogs since the start and he noted a spike in cases after the jab was rolled out. He thinks that may have been a false sense of invincibility but he also noted that shortly after this spike the downwards curve continued.

      Israel, where the roll-out is fastest, seems to still believe that a “cure” is needed, that the vax will not beat the virus on it’s own. With this in mind they are trialing the usual drugs we all know about.

      Why haven’t these trials been done already?

      30

  • #
    STJOHNOFGTAFTON

    Can Australian employers legally mandate an experimental medical product?

    20

  • #
    Kim

    Shooters, Fishers and Farmers at the top of the list. Fall through the minor parties. LNP at the bottom. Left wing parties – Labor, Greenies – under them. That way the message gets through.

    10

  • #
  • #
    el gordo

    The very lucky country.

    ‘Just two people in Australia died from influenza between late April and November last year, and the overall number of recorded deaths across the country was significantly lower in 2020 than in recent years.’ Oz

    00

  • #
    • #
      robert rosicka

      Bom keep telling me it’s warmest evahh but I’m actually freezing cold so this makes sense ElGordo but surely a billion dollar government dept wouldn’t lie about such a thing ?

      10