JoNova

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Weekend Unthreaded

7.8 out of 10 based on 20 ratings

396 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    George

    Great to see the ABC true to form lambasting the US for having the highest number of WuFlu deaths.

    No mention of:
    Spain
    Belgium
    France
    UK
    Italy
    Netherlands
    Switzerland
    Sweden
    Ireland

    All of which have higher death rates.

    New York is a disaster, perhaps because Governor Cuomo branded Trump as a xenophobic racist at the end of January when he blocked flights from China.

    Cuomo was happy to confirm that NY has open borders and welcomes visitors from Italy and China.

    571

    • #
      Gee aye

      Well done, a post with 100% false content.

      142

      • #
        TdeF

        I’m intrigued. Which part is false because they all seem to be statements of fact? Or is that a silly question?

        392

      • #
        Crakar24

        You will never change will you

        40

      • #
        Bulldust

        Gee…. that was stupid, even by your standards.

        80

      • #

        OK I’ll bite.

        1. no evidence of US being lambasted, unless reporting of facts counts.
        2. All those countries have been reported upon in the last 2 days
        3. NYC is not a disaster because of comments made about Trump.
        4. Cuomo’s happiness is projection and has no evidence to back it.

        100%

        29

        • #
          farmerbraun

          But what about comparing death rates with gross number of deaths?That was what George did.
          Or have I misread it?

          21

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Ordinarily a city would have open borders. Why not? But Cuomo is beholden to a stupid idea. It feeds him, waters him and changes his dirty britches. He can’t desert his keeper now, can he? So it’s open borders, including for the country.

            Honestly he’s afraid of losing the support of the far left and being out in the cold politically. He doesn’t care about the CV or death rates but only about staying in the benevolence of his keeper.

            40

        • #
          AndyG55

          1. ABC always lambasts Trump.. it is their main mode of US comment.

          2. ABC makes sure the US gets top billing of “bad”… its because of their TDS

          3,4. NYC is in strife because of Cuomo’s open border policies., which he happily advocates

          GA…. making a habit of being 100% wrong.

          123

        • #
          R.B.

          So the thousands of examples of lambasting are genuine criticisms, in your humble opinion, which give you the right to call someone a liar?

          They were not reported on in the story criticising the US.

          NYC is a disaster because the community didn’t take it seriously. Cuomo’s response to the travel bans highlights this, including expressing his views on open borders with a big smile on his face.

          11

          • #

            Somehow no one has managed to show that the OP was correct and my criticism was wrong. Andy managed to provide evidence in my favour which was nice of him.

            01

      • #
        AndyG55

        “100% false content.”

        You manage it every time you post, GA !

        Its your “meme”, your modus operandi…

        83

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Poor GA. Always wrong. I chased you when I was moderating but I’m not moderating anymore so I can say this out in the open for all to see. And then I’ll leave you alone on into the future.

          Andy, GA may be wrong and you may be right but when you make Gee Aye your personal problem you hurt your credibility. It makes you a complainer. It hurts you all the way around. The personal attacks hurt you more than they hurt the person you attacked. And worse, it encourages others to do likewise which is not good for Jo’s blog. If you have some problem with GA or anyone, tell Jo. Other commenters are Jo’s problem or the moderators.

          As a moderator I was privy to details not made public and it’s obvious, Andy, that you have some personal attachment to this blog, just as I do. Whey then do you do what has a negative affect on something you care about? I don’t understand it.

          Roy/AZ

          50

          • #

            and you’ll know that I have not replied to a single comment of his for some time (November?). And wont again for the good of the blog and the readers’ sanity.

            20

          • #
            Peter C

            Well I for one have enjoyed Andy’s put downs of Gee Aye. So I would say that he has not damaged his credibility. He has responded vigorously to a provocative troll.

            As for Gee Aye, he has one (at least one) positive feature. He points out inconsistencies in other peoples blog comments. He makes a few mistakes himself.
            He has not said much that is informative or helpful to any debate.

            10

            • #
              Peter C

              Thanks AZ for all your moderating efforts.

              10

            • #
              Peter C

              Gee Aye gets a pretty free rein here, which I support in favour of free speech.

              Why should Andy not get the same?

              10

            • #
              Annie

              Actually, I found the endless ding dongs very irritating and ended up skimming over lengths of the threads; they were a waste of space.

              00

              • #
                Peter C

                ended up skimming over lengths of the threads; they were a waste of space.

                Don’t be irritated Annie.
                I don’t read everything. I don’t have enough time, even though I am unemployed. Just pass over(Easter ref) the dross.

                Yes, I agree, the ding dongs add too much dross to the blog.

                00

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Hello Roy,

            On the immediate issue, Gosh Yes, I have never been all that bothered by his comments and have seen the occasional comment that adds to the discussion.

            Some time ago I was concerned for Jo’s blog in that other people were making posts that were clearly not intended to contribute to the discussion but to create interference and disruption.

            It seems that this was accepted under the heading of “free speech” when it was finally pointed out to management and allowed to continue.

            At this point I took to “marking” these comments and possibly Andy did too.

            My main concerns were that strangers reading the blog who were familiar with the content might see the obvious faults and ridicule contained in the comments and judge our host badly for accepting rubbish as worthwhile.

            That’s a very small part of it but in the end it’s up to blog management.

            KK

            00

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Hello Roy,

            On the immediate issue, Gosh Yes, I have never been all that bothered by his comments and have seen the occasional comment that adds to the discussion.

            Some time ago I was concerned for Jo’s blog in that other people were making posts that were clearly not intended to contribute to the discussion but to create interference and disruption.

            It seems that this was accepted under the heading of “free speech” when it was finally pointed out to management and allowed to continue.

            At this point I took to “marking” these comments and possibly Andy did too.

            My main concerns were that strangers reading the blog who were familiar with the content might see the obvious faults and ridicule contained in the comments and judge our host badly for accepting rubbish as worthwhile.

            That’s a very small part of it but in the end it’s up to blog management.

            KK

            00

        • #
          farmerbraun

          Andy , if you go to 100% factual as a modus operandi, you will be far more effective.

          10

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Hi Farmer

            This business, which I was also involved with, goes a long way back and I think that I was concerned about people “blog clogging” rather than showing a serious intent to engage.

            If Andy goes 100% factual it will leave the trouble bloggers free to damage the blog and reduce the effectiveness of discussions.

            Perhaps Gee Aye is not an issue for me because he doesn’t overdo it and it is clear where he’s coming from, so that the casual reader here can pick up on the background.

            🙂 KK

            00

    • #
      farmerbraun

      So you previously thought that the ABC had the hots for Trump? And now you know better?

      130

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      And Cuomo went cap in hand to Trump…another Democrat foolosh fiefdom brought low….

      80

    • #
      Leo Morgan

      While I agree with your general principle, I’d thought it was Joe Biden who called the flight ban “Xenophobic and hysterical”
      The politifact weasel-worders phrase it this way:
      “Biden has not directly said that the restrictions were xenophobic.

      Around the time the Trump administration announced the travel restriction, Biden said that Trump had a “record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering.”

      Biden used the phrase “xenophobic” in reply to a Trump tweet about limiting entry to travelers from China and in which Trump described the coronavirus as the “Chinese virus.” Biden did not spell out which part of Trump’s tweet was xenophobic.

      Perhaps it was both, got a source?

      00

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    In times of war, all sorts of dodgy stuff is carried out in the hope the punters dont notice.

    The planned snitch modifications of android and apple OS to enable most smartphones to snitch on who is around them for “covoid tracking” now, but will no doubt be used for govt snooping later.

    Ditch your phone that has either android or IOS installed. There are freeware OSs like Graphene that i believe dont have snitch-ware installed.
    If i cant get snitchware-free OS installed, I shall dump my smartphone.

    Be smart, protect your privacy. Cameras and microphones can be turned on easily on phones, this is 1984 style panopticon state intrusion.

    251

    • #
      Ian Hill

      What’s a smartphone? I only have a $39 Optus dumbphone. Useful for calling the RAA if needed. That’s about all these days.

      110

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I had a $25 dumb phone and lost it. I can’t find an equivalent and I don’t want a smart phone. What do I do. Any ideas?

        10

        • #
          Ian Hill

          Roy, I can only suggest you look on your equivalent of Gumtree (an online second hand market in Australia) for a similar phone. You will probably need to apply for a new phone number to get that little SIM card thingy it needs. Presumably your original network provider is still around.

          10

        • #
          farmerbraun

          Ask your self how civilisation made it this far without cellphones. 🙂

          20

        • #
          Annie

          I have a basic Samsung ‘phone somewhere; could never work out how to text easily with it! Spoilt by easy keyboard use on a ‘smart’ ‘phone. You can have it Roy if you can’t find one more locally. It cost all of £10 in Tesco in England!

          00

    • #
      MP

      I looked at 5G coverage after my electrician told me how busy they were with the install.
      I Shat myself it is now everywhere. But we have far bigger distractions to keep our eyes on, or so we are told.

      In China they are tracked by their phones (for now) it is illegal to be without their phone.

      52

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Yeah, now we see the real game…..

        I had heard ( anecdotally ) that under the cover of the covid thing, 5G was being rolled out while everyobe was locked in thier houses.

        Illegal to be without a phone? Does a few layers of alfoil around the phone as a faraday cage count? Now why would it be illgal to be without your phone? So the govt can track you? Never…..

        Mark of the Beast system is forming right in front of us, but how many have noticed this?

        113

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Telstra has a searchable map of Australia where 5G has been rolled out, look where you live you might be shocked, https://www.telstra.com.au/5g

          OS Alfoil around a phone works quite well test it for yourself, problem is other signal sources like vehicle GPS and RFID tags used on a large variety of products can be activated and tracked.

          40

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            GPS is a passive technology, unless its hooked up to a smartphone for “traffic info”. Data most likely flows both ways via the smartphone 4G link.

            RFID has limited range, although scanners in spped camera locations might be able to pick stuff ip as you go underneath.

            A 11.45 mhz j*mmer ( same frequency as a lot of rfid tags ) would likely work to block signals being read.

            50

        • #
          MP

          Yep, Google ID2020, all the companies involved in this draconian program are run by Gates, it is called 2020 for a reason, what year is it again.
          What else is Gates involved in, His on tape stating we need a digital certificate for people who are vaccinated, otherwise you won’t be allowed to travel, cause you know the collective. That’s the start, it won’t stop there, it never stops there.

          75

          • #
            Bushkid

            Gates ID2020 is touting microchip or smart microdot insertion along with the vaccine, no less.

            And he also thinks it can be used to let people “access basic rights”.

            Makes you wonder, hmmm?

            10

          • #
            sophocles

            But I don’t have a smart phone.

            10

        • #
          ivan

          tin foil hats are in evidence

          33

        • #

          Thoughtful discussion btw Peter Hitchins and John Anderson re the CV virus and non-fiat rule of law and human liberty as the basis of civilized society… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DmfA6D_02M

          10

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Is it illegal to be without your phone on Oz, Nz, US, etc. No. But the possibility of being tracked is not good. Once upon a time it was possible to shut off the GPS location function of a cell phone except for a 911 (emergency services number in US) call. I always made sure it was shut off. Of course it was always possible that it wasn’t off when it says it’s off. Dishonesty is everywhere. But consider this, with gazillions of phones world wide the facility to track every one of them will be swamped with data. Good luck setting up useful tracking of all of them

          On the other hand, wherever you go there is the possibility that numerous people see you there. And if you don’t go where you shouldn’t go, why worry if big brother sees you at the local gas station along with everyone else?

          But I still don’t like it.

          30

    • #
      RickWill

      What activities do you get up to that would cause you to be concerned about a government agency tracking you?

      26

      • #
        farmerbraun

        Free Speech ,or as the authorities prefer to call it – Non-Violent Extremism.
        Where have you been?

        112

        • #
          RickWill

          Free speech does not exist; at least in Australia. Why do you think this site has automatic filters that puts some comments into moderation. There are things that cannot be stated or written now without liability.

          Free speech has nothing to do with monitoring movements.

          So again what ACTIVITIES are you up to that you would be concerned about the government knowing where you are?

          Anyone carrying an active mobile phone can be tracked now and are being tracked. It does not need to be a smartphone.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking

          42

          • #
            farmerbraun

            I threw the cell phone last century.
            Yelling “FIRE!” in a crowded theatre was never allowed.
            The government wants to know that I am on my farm , producing food , and paying taxes so that others can sit on their arses between elections at which time they vote for more benefits payed from the taxes of those who work.

            62

          • #
            farmerbraun

            I threw the cell phone last century.
            Yelling “FIRE!” in a crowded theatre was never allowed.
            The government wants to know that I am on my farm , producing food , and paying taxes so that others can sit on their “R sez” between elections at which time they vote for more benefits payed from the taxes of those who work.

            31

          • #
            MP

            Free speech has everything to do with it. Its our rights.

            This is the problem with conversing with stupid people. You bring us down to your level and beat us with experience.

            43

      • #
        MP

        What did you just write?

        MY right to privacy, my right to freedom of movement, my rights full stop.

        Your question should of been “what give them the right”

        53

        • #
          RickWill

          If you think tracking movements is a breach of your freedom then you need to ditch your phone. Even dumbphones are easily tracked to accuracy of about 100m.

          32

          • #
            MP

            I don’t take my phone anywhere, I don’t have mobile coverage at my house, This is why we bought the place.
            I only take my phone to work, (used to) I work off shore.

            We have rights that must not be infringed, our grandparents died in two world wars for those rights and you just want to give them away because your scared?

            Nothing to low for you, where is your line in the sand, behind you!

            83

      • #
        MP

        Dumbest statement on the internet.

        Their is no level low enough that won’t bow to.

        25

      • #
        FarmerDoug2

        Which government?

        30

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Exactly! It is not this government we have to fear. It is a possible future government.

        41

        • #
          MP

          Ted I think we will find this is a branch of the new government we are now under.
          I think we just voted in Socialism, it would not of mattered as they are all the same, just a different front man.

          72

      • #
        tonyb

        Rick

        So, if we can get hold of the translation of the Chinese manual ‘how to control and keep track of citizens’ you will be happy to comply?

        21

  • #
    Peter C

    What Is the Plan?

    The Chief Medical Officer says we have to go through another 4 weeks of isolation lockdown!

    Why?
    Most of our new cases now are infected people arriving on mercy flights. They are being treated and isolated. The State Health Departments are tracing contacts and testing to find new cases due to community spread. They are finding very few.

    The modelling said that under the isolation plan the peak would be reduced but delayed by months.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-07/custom-image-of-coronavirus-flattening-curve-modelling-graph/12129854

    That has not happened. The peak of the curve has been rapid and very small. That is nothing like the model. It shows that stopping the transmission can be achieved and it has been achieved.
    So what now. The challenge is to build on our success, keep community spread very low but get people back to work. Jo has explained how to do that. Apparently Dr Furphy and the State Health Ministers have not been listening.

    If they ever had a plan it was too save our hospital system from overload. In fairness there were examples from overseas and they were terrible but now out hosptials are standing empty and staff are being laid off.

    Now we need a new plan. Hopefully they are working on it but we may not be allowed to know what it is.

    194

    • #
      el gordo

      Restrictions will ease in areas that have no new cases and in this way society can safely return to normality. Everyone is aware of maintaining distancing procedure, so the restaurants and hotels should open in rural and regional areas within a couple of weeks. By the end of May (when the football season begins) the whole country will ‘stand at ease’.

      71

      • #
        Graeme#4

        If country cafes, restaurants and hotels do partially open, I’m presuming that the country towns would not want city folk visiting just yet.

        151

        • #
          farmerbraun

          No , TdeF wants internal “tourism” immediately.

          62

        • #
          el gordo

          Cafes and restaurants in large country towns are more dependent on local support, always have, while the accommodation businesses will slowly come up for air. I’ve been informed that if the situation doesn’t improve by May then I’ll be unemployed.

          70

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            No “Job Keeper ‘ option for you EG ?

            21

            • #
              el gordo

              The guv gave me money, first paid holiday I’ve had in a very long time. I’m doing maintenance around the place, in anticipation that restrictions will be lifted in a couple of weeks.

              30

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        The end of May? I’m calling for the beginning of May. Starting with announcements next Monday.

        61

        • #
          el gordo

          How about we use electorates as a guide, no new cases for two weeks then we can get back to work.

          The cities are a problem.

          32

          • #
            Sunni Bakchat

            el gordo, As far as i understand testing is not random, so those being tested are those presenting with symptoms. I’m pretty sure looking at the research most people who get the virus are asymptomatic. So tell me what happens when someone who is asymptomatic passes it onto another who is asymptomatic and so on and so forth.

            The current restrictions don’t require masks, gloves, goggles, etc, in Australia. The virus spreads via extended contact in enclosed poorly unventilated areas with micro-droplets, and also via potentially contaminated surface contact. The restrictions allow a multitude of situations where these transmission vectors can occur.

            The notion of Zero Virus hasn’t really been thought through properly has it? Australians as always are just relying on luck.

            If I’ve missed something I’d love to have the logic above shown to be faulty so i can correct my thinking.

            30

            • #
              el gordo

              They have to lift restrictions in those electorates that show no new cases over a two week period. Covid-19 might still circulate in the cities, but it should be possible to track individuals and avoid clusters.

              Zero Virus maybe achievable, we should aim for that.

              10

              • #
                Sunni Bakchat

                el gordo, how do they measure no new cases precisely when a large amount of cases show no symptoms for the entire period of infection? Surely they’d have to test everyone within the community within a short period while the community remains under strict quarantine. Much like Vo, the township in Italy. If they didn’t do this, the virus just continues to pass from person to person asymptomatically as i originally detailed.

                I’m saying that with the current strategy it is impossible to achieve zero virus. Where am i getting it wrong?

                20

              • #
                el gordo

                You’re not, the people have been told to maintain a reasonably safe distance and those who get sick should self isolate.

                The asymptomatic free radicals are a huge threat to our cherished way of life and we may have to suffer them for awhile. A special federal investigative team could discover who they are when a cluster develops and trace it back to the source.

                The hospitals won’t be overwhelmed and the process will settle down to a new normal.

                10

              • #
                Sunni Bakchat

                el gordo, i agree with your last post. I just can’t see how Australia will logically get to zero even with an investigative team. There are so many everyday opportunities to infect where it would be impossible to trace. Here’s a hypothetical situation – if you got to the supermarket and become infected via aerosolised transfer yet display no symptoms for two weeks. During the entire time, every time you are in an enclosed space you potentially infect someone. Let’s say you infect eight people in two weeks. Three quarters of these people show no symptoms and go onto infect another eight people each. so on and so forth. Nobody knows who was at the supermarket, the service station, the convenience store, etc. How do you trace that?

                There are presently 2741 known cases in Australia. These were established by selective testing. Where random testing has occurred, the numbers of infected are four times as great. so there are likely up to 8223 infected persons wandering out there we don’t know about yet. Perhaps a little less if you subtract those who were isolated on cruise ships. Until there is randomised testing Australia appears to be engaging in folly based on fanciful absolutist logic that does not add up. I’d be delighted to be proved wrong.

                The Australian authorities really have some answering to do if they are now using the excuse of Zero Virus as a justification for locking people down for another month and denying freedom of movement. It is extremism, it is brutal, illiberal, immoral; and devastatingly economically and socially damaging the longer it stays in place.

                10

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Sounds logical and well grounded Peter.

      Please let it happen soon.

      KK

      51

      • #
        DOC

        There is a town in WA, on the coast, that has no recorded cases of COVID-19.
        The WA government has prohibited driving outside the boundaries of one’s region.
        This town is blocking all non local traffic from entering.
        This town is a byway for most traffic, caravans etc to and from the eastern states
        Much of its employment and income is tourist dependent.
        I wonder what it will do when the penny drops that there is little income coming in.
        Realise reality, or beg the WA government for ‘assistance’ and keep the block on.
        It’s really the national dilemma on a small scale.

        41

      • #
        Gf

        Won’t work KK as major rural electorates run into metro areas and have strange boundaries. Best use easelly defined physical borders, such as East of the Hume freeway North of the great divide. Very few roads cross the divide. The Western district bordering SA could be another as well as East Gippsland which would join up with the first area.

        20

      • #
        Gf

        Won’t work KK as major rural electorates run into metro areas and have strange boundaries. Best use easelly defined physical borders, such as East of the Hume freeway North of the great divide. Very few roads cross the divide. The Western district bordering SA could be another as well as East Gippsland which would join up with the first area.

        21

    • #
      toorightmate

      Peter C,
      The PLAN is the Peoples Liberation Army Navy.
      You will hear more about them in the next 5 years than you have ever heard about Coronavirus.

      71

      • #
        Raving

        This explains everything …

        “The Qin sought to create a state unified by structured centralized political power and a large military supported by a stable economy.[3] The central government moved to undercut aristocrats and landowners to gain direct administrative control over the peasantry, who comprised the overwhelming majority of the population and labour force. This allowed ambitious projects involving three hundred thousand peasants and convicts, such as connecting walls along the northern border, eventually developing into the Great Wall of China”

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_dynasty

        Chinese culture based on all people as a single state run entity. China has always been fanatically concerne with unifying and controling the many factions within China by uniformity. Hence Chinawill neveragree to the seperation of Taiwan or H.K.

        With all the effort to maintain conformity within the Chinese empire for thousands of years, it is hard to see a strong desire for expansionism. That would mean going for one global China. Preserving within also means keeping foreigners out

        11

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          There’s something being missed here;

          “it is hard to see a strong desire for expansionism. ”

          I think that the Tibetans and countries with an interest in the South China sea might not agree there.

          Thankfully for our governing class, very few Australians know that China owns Darwin port and significant flows of our rivers that were formerly available to local farmers.

          KK

          110

          • #
            Raving

            Yes I would agree with that but China is very much a case of expansionism last rather than expansionism first. This is completely different to other empire builders

            The Chinese have been preoccupied with imposing conformity within. That is kinda the essence of centralized communal existence where everyone is the same

            31

          • #

            Kalm eith

            It s Apparently 75 ports in 35 countries including the inexplicable 99 year lease on darwin. What are we in the west thinking of?

            140

            • #
              Raving

              The question you need to ask is … “What are the Chinese thinking of?”

              51

              • #
                sophocles

                Raving claimed:

                The question you need to ask is … “What are the Chinese thinking of?”

                … exacting revenge on the english and their friends for the opium wars. Some of their politbureau have even said so.

                20

            • #
              Raving

              Imagine a 99 year lease on Hong Kong. For the Chinese that means next to nothing. It is a short time in history and they can wait much longer.

              A 99 year leasehold on Darwin is a business deal. It secures nothing in the long term.

              Leaseholding land is a popular way of disguising rent with the illusion of ownership

              20

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Really?

                The middle man, or in this case, the middle kingdom, charges for the use of the port thus increasing transactional costs for both imports and exports. The Australian public are paying more for imports while exporters are paying an unnecessary tax on their business.

                Winners here are The Chinese and Australian fixers who created the scheme.

                KK

                50

              • #
                Raving

                Are you accusing the Chinese of being good businessmen? Kind of like blaming Americans for being effective capitalists and free traders

                13

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Raving,

                No, not blaming the Chinese.

                There are however, some Australians who have sold off common property in a way that is very unpleasant.

                30

            • #
              joseph

              And don’t forget the inland ports. They facilitate customs clearance in different parts of the world, including the USA, Europe, and Africa.

              10

          • #
            Raving

            Yeah sure China could take over the world but they are really really preoccupied with supressing rebellion from within and cememting/preserving the whole empire intact. Seems to be a strong essential part of their long history

            Its easy to lose sight of this. Easy to presume that attitudes are changing in China. There is something very fundamental in the China (Qin) identity of uniting cohesing and ruling the whole. No tolerance for independence.

            There were multiple cultural revolutions through Chinese history.. They were designed to throw away diversity and impose new universal centrally imposed standards and laws

            34

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              And yet?

              There are those who have escaped, and because they took what belonged to the state, They Can Never Go Back.

              But, if they had been made Governor of one of the new territories, Tibet or Ethiopia, they might have stayed. Next, The Spratlys.

              KK

              30

              • #
                Raving

                Makes for an interesting situation Kieth. … All those people of Chinese ancestry living in Australia, Europe, Singapore Indonesia, ?.. everywhere.

                Are they fundamentally Chinese nationals or rebel succesinists? Rising up adn quelling of rebel successionists has been the story of Chinese history for 1000s of years.

                In the tpast this struggle between conformity and independence has taken place inside the borders of the traditional Chinese empire. Am not being polemic here. This is fundamental to epwhat China and its culture means

                44

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Keep going Raving, this is becoming interesting.

                What have we here.

                30

              • #
                farmerbraun

                “What have we here”?

                The Chou I, I submit.Otherwise known as the I Ching.
                How does the superior man co-exist with the Emperor?
                For Emperor , read CCCP.

                30

              • #
                Raving

                Globalism has benefited the Chinese and they have taken advantage of it. They are good businessmen. They will adjust and carry on forward as per however the world pushes back.

                The Chinese investments abroad are soft peddled business proposals. The Americans and Russians have been investing and harvesting from the developing world for a very long time. Good on the Chinese for being able tot take advange of the arrangements for as long as possible. The Americans and Russians lost out on their foreign development. Expect the Chinese risk similar outcomes

                The big problem here is globalization itself. Cannot forever take money/productivity out of a country and expect it to be a bottomless pot of gold

                The covid19 crisis is tapping the world banks and economies dry

                31

              • #
                farmerbraun

                China has explicit permission. And India too. That’s why they build a new coal -fired power station every week.
                It’s their turn , apparently.

                51

              • #
                Raving

                People dont give sufficient importance of immigration to float and inflate the economy to opsitive GNP

                Look at who provides the cheap lagor, buys the newly built condos, pays the taxes and rejuvenates the aging population structures.

                Like it or lump it, its those immigrants. This is happening in loads of countries.

                EvenChina might needto resort to immigrationto keepits economy expanding. That could be very difficult for the Chinese culture

                23

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Don’t like to butt in, but:

                Demographics. China’s population is getting older. This is occurring faster than anywhere else in the world. The safety net to cover for them is pretty weak. Its dependency ratio for retirees could rise as high as 44% by 2050. That’s a problem that just might be somewhat delayed by the Chinese virus. Was it an accident?

                China’s totalitarian “one child policy” has created enormous distortions of net wealth. The richest 1% of households own 30% of China’s wealth. Small families adversely effect old age support mechanisms in a culture like China.

                Early death is an economic benefit to the state. Early, as in at the end of an economically productive life. Sixty five and on the pension, is now moving towards 70 in the West. Perhaps the CCP has an alternative strategy under development in its Bio-lab in Wuhan?

                00

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Seen a photo yesterday of a new Chinese carrier on fire , might halt the plans a bit .

        31

        • #
          toorightmate

          Did the photo show the number of near-finished carriers on adjacent shipyard spillways – scary?

          01

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      No…the 5G rollout is behind schedule…they need another 4 weeks to catch up….

      31

    • #
      MP

      They have always had a plan

      13

  • #
    tonyb

    Interesting report in todays UK Sunday Times that the govt has brought in 500 deep sea diving experts to work with patients in UK hospitals and that they are now in place

    The intention is to help with CV patients breathing correctly when their oxygen levels are depleted as the disease progresses and presumably as an alternative or supplement to the ventilators.

    122

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Interesting.

      Breathing is a very complex neurological process at the extremes.

      The extremes being either too much oxygen or too little being supplied to regulate CO2 levels in the bloodstream.

      http://joannenova.com.au/2020/04/urgent-new-medical-theory-on-coronavirus-hold-the-ventilators-stop-blood-clots-instead/#comment-2309483

      Thanks to Roy and RW.

      KK

      31

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Tonyb,

      Silly to sillier. Next they’ll be treating those on their death beds by hanging crystals above them and rotating them in an anticlockwise direction.

      Five hundred deep sea divers? Not so fast, Buck Rogers.

      According to another source the number is ten (10).

      On Saturday night 10 divers began working on the intensive care ward at the Royal Free Hospital in London.

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8211763/NHS-coronavirus-volunteers-include-500-deep-sea-drivers-ready-help-out.html

      Perhaps they have run out of Oxygen and just want their tanks; or their masks?

      Just give the poor buggers HCQ, Zn and Azithromycin, fer crikey’s sake.

      64

      • #
        tonyb

        500 have been recruited from commercial diving operations such as those that service the North Sea oil platforms. They are waiting to see if the results of the study of 10 have been worthwhile before sending the remainder to designated hospitals.

        Did Britain not ban the export of HCQ back in January on the basis that early tests showed it might have some efficacy? The fact it has not been rolled out would seem to suggest it is not as effective as claimed.

        70

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          That’s very appropriate that divers have been brought in to provide some practical expertise in getting the patient’s oxygen intake right.

          In the links above I’ve outlined some of the neurological issues with breathing, and by coincidence Rereke described his experience with mix ratios in practice runs with submarine escape chambers.

          In that situation too much oxygen kills and the “saving” additive gas will surprise.

          The use of divers who understand the practical issues of the matter is not as dumb as SS has made it seem.

          A number of contributors seem to adopt this approach: if you don’t understand it, hit it with a big stick.

          KK

          50

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          It also semd to point to other info I have seen that it mimics altitude sickness….

          Diving…oxygen….avoiding the bends etc….

          20

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Just a quick guess: possibly at altitude there isn’t enough pressure for oxygen to get in and work. Tanks are used.

            Under water, high pressure, tanks may provide too much oxygen and cause the ANS to switch off and stop breathing.

            KK

            10

      • #
        toorightmate

        Sceptical Sam,
        It doesn’t matter what the number really is.
        In todays media 100 is far more sensational than 10.

        40

  • #
    mikewaite

    The BBC (UK) this morning had an article about the gradual return to normal for several European nations.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52226763
    Austria, Denmark, Bulgaria , Norway and Chechia are mentioned and some easing even in Italy and Spain.
    Already China is movong back into full ecomomy, and it seems obvious that those natons that go back to a working economy first
    will have a considerable competitive advantage, trading with areas relativly unaffected eg SE Asia, Africa and S America than
    those that continue the lockdown indefinitely .
    So why is Australia in the latter category and not one of the leaders of the post COV reconstruction.
    Is it because it is still very badly hit by the virus compared to, say, Austria or Norway?
    Well,lets look at the April figures from Worldometer

    In terms of :
    Country :New cases :New deaths: deaths /1million population:

    Australia: 65: 2: 2
    Denmark: 139: 13 : 39
    Norway : 77 : 13 : 45
    Italy: 694: 619: 322
    Spain : 2992: 366: 363
    Bulgaria: 8: 1: 4
    Chechia : 3: 3 12

    It seems to me that on these figures Australia can be bundled up into the goup that is leading the reconstruction.
    But it isn’t. Why?

    41

    • #
      mikewaite

      Sorry , made a mistake reading from my notebook:
      Australia: 65: 2: 2
      Austria: 139: 13 : 39
      Denmark : 177 : 13 : 45
      Norway: 95: 6: 22
      Italy: 4694: 619: 322
      Spain : 2992: 366: 363
      Bulgaria: 8: 1: 4
      Chechia : 3: 3 12

      30

      • #
        Sunni Bakchat

        mikewaite, there seems to be a “Zero Virus Absolutism” viral meme loose on these pages and in the broader Australian community. I think the R0 is <1 but there are some pretty serious infections as evidenced by posts demonstrating rabies-like foaming of the mouth, pustules of fallacious logic and disconsolate certitude. There's also some evidence of a genetic predisposition intellectual pygmyism. Though this may simply be culturally syntonic. Social isolation would unequivocally ameliorate the more acute incidence of such egregiously obstreperous dialogue.

        Australians will soon get sick of playing whack-a-mole with this virus and get serious. For the moment though "she'll be right mate. Just you wait and see"!

        02

    • #
      tonyb

      mike

      is Australia vulnerable to a resurgence of the disease as so few seem to have caught it? What happens if international trade brings it back into the country?

      41

  • #
    Ted O'Brien.

    I am wondering if the measures being undertaken to guard against COVID 19 are saving us from catching other viruses, the ones we used to catch almost regularly.

    120

    • #
      TdeF

      Of course. And when we have rigit Wu Flu testing at the airport, why not testing for everything. Why should be follow the European latest flu season and lose 2,000 people? The money we spend trying to prevent Isl*mic terrorism would easily test everyone and prevent many more deaths. Or the effort we make to prevent the entry of apple, grape, citrus, potato and other plant diseases. It is now possible to screen for viruses, so why not?

      111

  • #
    Ted O'Brien.

    I am wondering if the measures being undertaken to guard against COVID 19 are saving us from catching other viruses, the ones we used to catch almost regularly.

    50

    • #
      sophocles

      There are six corona viruses which infect humans. Covid-19 makes a seventh one.
      The Northern Hemisphere is about to come out of it’s normal coughs-colds-and flu season. It’s the time of year when everybody’s Vitamin D is lowest so there is little immunity to anything. Deaths during this season are always elevated. The influenza viruses have a good feeding time along with the corona viruses. They both cause deaths.

      The pity is that vitamin D levels in all those who die are never measured. If they were, we might start giving vitamin D deficiency the attention it should be getting.

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    What worries me is that Japan and Singapore, so impressive at the start, have done nothing to change their trajectory. The Virus is still doubling every ten days where we are near flat. Why? It only takes a few weeks of shut down to k*ll this thing.

    62

  • #
    Sceptical Sam

    Be sceptical, TdF.

    “Adriana Tami, a clinical epidemiologist at the Universidad de Carabobo in Venezuela and the University Medical Center Groningen in the Netherlands, was recently in Venezuela working as a clinician and scientist.”

    “Since we know that the testing capacity is centralized at the National Institute of Hygiene, the only institution able to test, there must be a huge underreporting,” she said. ”As with any other disease in Venezuela, there is no official communication, nor epidemiological bulletins published by the Ministry of Health since 2016.”

    “According to Tami, Venezuelan authorities are perhaps even worse than North Korea or Iran in terms of providing information on the coronavirus causing COVID-19.”…….

    …..“Even the basic measures, such as washing hands, are almost impossible because of lack of water and soap,” Tami said.”

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/venezuela-faces-covid-19-outbreak-hospitals-times-lack-soap-water-n1163331

    70

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      This refers to TdF’s comment at #8.1 above.

      🙂

      70

      • #
        TdeF

        I am suspicous, which is why I mentioned it. The reports from all totalitarian (usually called socialist) governments are suspect. None less than North Korea who report no Wu Flu cases at all, despite their proximity and trade with Wuhan. This is supported by the communist puppet WHO organization.

        51

  • #

    Heartland launches 22 climate science “gatebreakers”
    by David Wojick
    https://www.cfact.org/2020/04/10/heartland-launches-22-climate-science-gatebreakers/

    “Gatebreaker” is a word I use to describe a special kind of document that until recently has been few and far between. It is a one or two page nontechnical refutation of a specific alarmist argument. It is something a student or citizen can use to confront an alarmist gatekeeper, hence the name gatebreaker. I wrote about the need for gatebreakers several years ago.

    The Heartland Institute has just published a whopping 22 gatebreakers, with more promised. This is a true wealth of important skeptical material, unlike anything we have seen before. My dream is coming true.

    A gatebreaker is something a skeptical student can send around to the class when the teacher insists on alarmism. Or something short and simple to send to a journalist in response to an alarmist article, or to a politician making alarmist speeches, or the local blowhard alarmist. It’s power lies in its specificity and its simplicity.

    The Heartland website is called “Climate at a Glance” (https://climateataglance.com) which makes it sound softer than it really is, sort of like a pink pistol which you can actually buy. These are not glances; they are hard hitting rebuttals.

    Heartland calls these short pieces “summaries” because each summarizes a strong response to a common alarmist claim or argument. The summaries are wide ranging because the climate change debate is like that. There is hard science, but also policy, economics and things in between. Extreme weather gets a lot of attention. Here is a partial list to give the flavor of the mix:

    Antarctic Ice Melt

    Floods

    Carbon Dioxide Tax

    Hurricanes

    National Security

    Crop Production

    Consensus

    Water Levels – Great Lakes

    Climate Sensitivity

    Subsidies

    Sea Level Rise

    And my personal favorite: Tipping Point – 1.5 Degrees Celsius Warming

    Plus a bunch more.

    Here is how Heartland explains it. The what: “This website condenses frequently argued climate issues into one- or two-page “at-a-glance” summaries. Bullet-points at the top provide quick, memorable information. Short summaries of a paragraph or two provide additional depth. Many summaries include powerful visual graphs. Embedded links verify the information.”

    And the why: “Climate At A Glance puts frequently argued climate issues into short, concise, summaries that provide the most important, accurate, powerful information. The summaries are designed to provide a library of solid yet simple rebuttals so that legislators, teachers, students, and laymen can easily refute the exaggerations of the so-called “climate crisis.””

    Taken together these summaries make a nice short course on the climate change debate.

    In addition to refuting the primary alarmist arguments, Heartland might consider adding summaries of positive skeptical arguments related to key issues that alarmists ignore. These include issues like the flaws in the climate models, the little ice age, natural variability, scaring children, the impossibility of 100% renewables, and the incredible benefits of fossil fuels.

    Then too it would be very useful if some of these skeptical summaries were specifically geared to the new Next Generation Science Standards. These are just coming into force for many of America’s K-12 students. Climate change is taught in both middle and high school, with a definite slant toward alarmism. Students are required to use climate models in middle school. No doubt these are alarmist models.

    Also there is a somewhat different approach, which I have experimented. This is to teach just that there is a serious scientific debate on a given issue. The student is not expected to understand the technical scientific debate. Rather it is like going to visit a big laboratory, to see that a lot of work is being done. This approach is useful in settings where digging into the science would be disruptive.

    I do this by first briefly explaining both sides of the issue, then show the student a Google Scholar search on that topic in the recent scientific literature. For example, a search on “little ice age” finds over 10,000 articles in the last five years talking about the LIA. Over 250 have it in their article title. Clearly there is still a ton of research going on. My LIA gatebreaker is at http://ccdedu.blogspot.com/2019/05/are-we-coming-out-of-little-ice-age.html.

    But possible additions are not a criticism of the present grand package. Heartland’s new collection of gatebreakers is an awesome resource. A clear antidote to climate alarmism at the street level. Spread the word. Climate at a Glance is a game changer.

    Please share this article widely.

    David

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    • #
      Reed Coray

      David, thanks for the heads-up.

      40

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Well done David, Big!

      10

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      This is at the link.

      “Robert
      2 days ago
      Dr. Wojick asserts “It is generally agreed that global warming is at least partly natural, not due to humans. ” on the page (which gas a go fund me link at the top) linked to above.

      And despite his claim of “…first briefly explaining both sides of the issue,”, there’s no qualification or quantification supporting that claim….Wonder why..”

      20

    • #
      RickWill

      The failure of these efforts is bedded in the belief that most people are capable of logical and rational reasoning. In my experience, few people are able to think outside their box sufficiently as not to be blinded by what they have been taught. The more formal education, the less true understanding. Young people are being taught about “greenhouse gasses”. Their authority is the school system – compelling. These documents are from a demonised “denier” group known as Heartland Institute. No matter the quality, they do not stand a hope of influencing.

      The satellite evidence clearly shows that water vapour does not heat the planet. In fact water vapour cools the planet:
      https://1drv.ms/b/s!Aq1iAj8Yo7jNg1uzA-KKFEvD5BzX
      This single chart is all you need to anhilate the whole theory of “greenhouse gas” global warming.

      41

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        That’s a great graph Rick.

        TPW has risen , min and max , for 3 years while OLR remains fairly even.

        Some questions, was this over the whole planet, a particular spot or hemisphere?

        Interesting.

        KK

        20

        • #
          RickWill

          The OLR is in phase each yearly cycle with the TPW. The recent 3-year upward trend in TPW is not reflected so strongly in OLR but there is an upward trend.

          The data is from NASA’s earth observations site. It was over the entire planet – oceans and land. The positive correlation holds up over most locations across the globe but there are some locations where it is not as strong as the global average and some locations where the correlation is even better than the average.

          What most people do not realise is the atmospheric water vapour cycles over a wide range each year.

          When you look at the precipitation less evaporation data from climate models they have high net precipitation:
          http://climexp.knmi.nl/data/icmip5_pme_Amon_modmean_rcp85_0-360E_-90-90N_n_+++_2016:2020.png
          Accumulating this data year-on-year results in no precipitable water within 10 years. It is unphysical nonsense. The CSIRO model is one of a very small number where the cumulative anomaly does not rapidly go to zero.

          31

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Thanks, very interesting.
            I assume that the cycling variation is due to the presentation of different hemispheres to the Sun.

            Lots of ocean in the South and more land in the North.

            30

            • #
              RickWill

              Also due to Earth orbital eccentricity around the sun. Earth is closer to the sun during the austral summer so not only mostly ocean in the direct glare of the sun but the glare is considerably more intense.

              Eccentricity is also the reason why Australia is the dry continent. It is literally parched with intense sun directly overhead for a large proportion of the land mass during the austral summer. Peak insolation over northern Australia is greater than the peak intensity over the Sahara.

              31

    • #
      Peter C

      Thanks David,

      You link goes back to a similar article on your own blog.

      Do you have a link to the “Gatebreaker” articles themselves?

      20

  • #
    cedarhill

    Now this new testing method is, well, astonishing? Mother of invention and all that:

    https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israeli-researchers-at-Hebrew-U-develop-faster-cheaper-COVID-19-test-624429

    “He said that the next step in their research is to develop a method that will allow tens of thousands of samples to be tested simultaneously. ”

    Another example of the incredible advances of modern biomed.

    50

    • #
      Another Ian

      There is also a comment that it is “the father of half-castes”

      10

    • #
      TdeF

      It seems like this is a bulk system, massively parallel, doing thousands of tests simultaneously. And that is good for laboratories and a 24 hour turnaround.

      However what the world really needs is a fast, accurate single test.

      21

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    In the US the left wing media(most all the media) is busy reporting that Trump knew early and diddled while people died, or Fauci and others were for shutting down early and he resisted.
    Blood on his hands, don’t y know. The mystery is why there was no contemporary reporting in these great news sources of the impending doom we all faced — as they apparantly had sources for everything going on in the administration. Now, if they had been calling for a travel ban while the President resisted….but as I recall twas the other way around.

    I don’t know whether to be more disgusted by the Chinese lying, or the NYT. I know what motivates the Chinese. They are the enemy of freedom everywhere and basically want to run the world, gaining power by any means necessary. What’s the point at the NYT, or, for that matter, the ABC?

    90

    • #
      farmerbraun

      Do the NYT and ABC support China building all the coal-fired power stations they want for another 10 years?
      Perhaps they all are on the same page?

      30

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Jobs.

      Well paid jobs.

      And really highly paid jobs.

      20

  • #
  • #
    R.B.

    The Atlantic a few weeks ago https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/03/what-really-doomed-americas-coronavirus-response/608596/

    As it turns out, the reality-based, science-friendly communities and information sources many of us depend on also largely failed. We had time to prepare for this pandemic at the state, local, and household level, even if the government was terribly lagging, but we squandered it because of widespread asystemic thinking: the inability to think about complex systems and their dynamics. We faltered because of our failure to consider risk in its full context, especially when dealing with coupled risk—when multiple things can go wrong together. We were hampered by our inability to think about second- and third-order effects and by our susceptibility to scientism—the false comfort of assuming that numbers and percentages give us a solid empirical basis. We failed to understand that complex systems defy simplistic reductionism

    It’s still hypercritical of Trump but at least admits that its the information relied on. Highly unlikely that it would have been handled better by Clinton considering how the Democrats criticised the travel bans and promoted Mardi Gras events.

    40

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      There are a few of those folk lurking here on JoNova !
      Too busy bagging Jo
      to go out and get some face masks & sanitiser & gloves
      Back in early February !
      Ahhh well. Evolution will sort them out.
      🙂

      12

  • #
    David Maddison

    I thought this insanity only occurred in Kalifornia.

    They are painting streets in Australia as well to combat “climate change”. This is in the municipality of Blacktown near Sydney.

    https://www.blacktown.nsw.gov.au/News-Media/Blacktown-paves-the-way-to-a-cooler-city

    50

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      🙂 That’s so that the kids can play barefoot on the roads in summertime.

      40

      • #
        Peter C

        Actually it is not a bad idea. It is mitigation and it does not involve CO2.

        Black roads do get very hot.

        00

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      They paint roundabouts in canberra in multiple colours…..its like adult colouring books…i doubt it has any benefit though….

      50

    • #
      MP

      There is literally nothing to stupid that people won’t except.

      The last election was all about climate change, the media told us this, the Greens, labour, every NGO and Foundations.
      Climate change lost the election yet we have not changed course, Slomo slung a $Billion at the green slush fund it was the first thing he did.
      Nothing was said other then a few grumbles.
      Sanfran is going into their 6th week of lock-down, we are in our third, we aint coming out of this any time soon.
      Slomo told us to not be greedy we only needed 2 weeks of food, we are in week 3 going to 4. He told us we would be seeing further restrictions daily, we better get used to it, well guess what he was right.
      They are talking about tracking people by phone, how can this be acceptable to anyone, we have drones flying the streets. 6 months imprisonment for going out side by yourself?
      Police are going door to door

      We will be allowed outside eventually, that will be the new accepted norm as it will be better then it was, two steps forward one step back.
      This is not the Whuflu this is Socialism (but much worse), their is nothing wrong with anyone of us yet we a are locked in our houses under the threat of jail. For the good of the collective.

      At the moment to end this all we have to do is rise up walk outside and shake our neighbours hand, play street cricket. They can’t arrest us all and we won’t allow it. This needs a majority at the same time to work. #reclaimourstreets

      I understand we are not at this point yet, people are only focused on the distractions. Look what else is happening.

      I am not in fear of the Whuflu as I understand the agenda.
      It matters not if the threat is real or not it just has to be perceived as being real. The people must be kept in a constant state of anxiety and fear.
      Want to understand the plan read the communist manifesto (that takes some work), want to know how how to bring it about, rules for radicals.
      The media are all owned by the same handful of people, there job is to keep you fearful.
      Last night 90 Australians flew in from some cruise liner, the media labelled them as actually “riddled with Whuflu” what is the point of saying something so belittling when they could of spun a sympathetic line. Fear.

      Can someone explain to me #filmyourhospitals. What is the point of testing other then to keep the infection rate visible, what is the error rate of these tests.
      Food banks are running out of food in the US, these are the poorest group that are fed, yeah these people have issues other then food but they must eat. They also have a lot of guns, where will they get the food?
      In SA they are locked down as well, armed military are enforcing the law and inspecting the bags of people coming back from shopping, they are not allowed to go outside their front door.
      In Italy they are on food stamps, guards with machine guns outside shopping centres.
      These things only happen because we allow it, because we are fearful.

      We need to have a discussion

      57

      • #
        farmerbraun

        Many Kiwis are very much looking forward to that discussion, but will it be permitted?

        Non-Violent Extremism ; does that ring a bell?

        52

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          The govt will likely be forced to the table by a ticked off population. I have one mate who is a kiwi, so get to hear about stuff. He is under no illusion to the power game being played.

          The problem with having a pretty communist in power is that they are hard leftists. There is the problem.

          61

        • #
          MP

          Yup, there is nothing to fear but fear itself. These are true words.

          When people are greedy be fearfull. When people are fearful be greedy. Warren Buffet.

          I think thats the solution FB, but it must be all/most at the same time, flood the streets.

          I talk to the local town folk, they have had enough also, we can’t organise because that is illegal, what a coincidence.

          36

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            And if you dead from COVID 19
            No one can hear your complaints !
            Sarc/

            22

            • #
              MP

              But I am not dead, I have a voice.

              The Whuflu will not kill me

              35

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                But it is more than a little ungracious
                ( Not to say recalcitrant ) of you,
                to boast of your complete failure to acknowledge
                That you ‘live’ still now
                Courtesy of the lock down and the quarantine !
                🙂

                21

          • #
            MP

            But I am not locked down, I go out when I need to as I have always done.
            I still shake hands when offered and when I offer, I spend cash and only cash.
            I do not wear a mask, I do not own a mask. I do not wear gloves, the only gloves I have are for fencing and elbow LGTH for chemicals.

            So remind me again why I am not dead?

            14

      • #
        RickWill

        They are talking about tracking people by phone, how can this be acceptable to anyone, we have drones flying the streets. 6 months imprisonment for going out side by yourself?

        They are NOT ‘talking’ about tracking people by phone. It is being done. The data shows Australians are complying:
        https://www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-04-05_AU_Mobility_Report_en.pdf

        If you do not want to be tracked then you must not carry an active mobile phone. I have a mobile phone but do not carry it because it is an inconvenient distraction. If I go on an extended trip I keep it in the car glovebox or briefcase for emergency or contacting accomodation; usually turned off so it stays charged for said uses. However it does not bother me that it is being tracked. I do not get up to illegal activities.

        62

        • #
          MP

          As I replied above I won’t repeat.

          We used to be able to associate that is now illegal. We used to be allowed to go out that is now illegal, we used to be able to go for a drive that is now illegal, we used to be able to go to the beach that is now illegal, we used to be able to go camping that is now illegal and on and on to many to list. Name some things we are allowed to do that won’t take long.

          Why do you assume I am doing something Illegal, that would be the last thing I would of thought of accusing anyone of.

          Can you function on your own or do you need directions from the government to survive. I bet your pro UN

          46

          • #
            RickWill

            I am seeing more people out and about our neighbourhood than ever before. Just walking by themselves, in pairs or small families. Some with dogs. There are no restrictions on walking about your neighbourhood.

            Loss of some freedom of activity for a month or two is a small price for the rest of my life, the life of my children and their children as well as everyone else. I have two sons working in health care services in Australia and I particularly appreciate the effort the majority of people are taking to lower the risk of CV19 taking hold in Australia to reduce the risk of their exposure. More than 100 doctors in Italy have died from CV19.
            https://www.france24.com/en/20200409-italy-says-number-of-doctors-killed-by-coronavirus-passes-100

            I am catching up on many projects around the house as I am certain many other Australians are doing based on the trade that Bunnings are doing. Sadly Taswegians can now only buy from Bunnings on line unless they are tradesmen.

            52

            • #
              MP

              “There are no restrictions on walking about your neighbourhood” That in and of itself is a restriction.

              Keep thinking.

              37

              • #
                RickWill

                The loss of freedom of movement has all happened before in Australia and then freedom restored once the threat was gone:
                https://www.smh.com.au/national/deadly-and-disruptive-flu-outbreak-in-1919-instructive-for-australia-today-20200303-p546bx.html

                On Tuesday March 25, 1919 a Sydney court fined 19-year-old Eileen Leigh 20 shillings for not wearing her face mask on a tram. Her alternative to paying today’s equivalent of an $80 fine was seven days in jail.

                The NSW government had mandated masks be worn in trains, trams, ferries, lifts and on crowded streets on February 3, just days after it announced the state had been infected by pneumonic influenza, or the “Spanish Flu”.

                So what is happening now is no different to what has happened in the past. This bursts the bubble that conspiracy theorists live in.

                You might appreciate my contribution a week ago:
                http://joannenova.com.au/2020/04/weekend-unthreaded-305/#comment-2304364

                41

              • #
                MP

                Yeah history always repeats.

                And how many did the depression that followed Kill. I think technically we are in a depression now.

                You do know your on, by your definition, a conspiracy wed site. But …… is what …… does.

                16

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                MP This is and always will be
                A SCIENCE BASED website.
                If you think it is a conspiracy website
                Please be assured you have come here by mistake.
                And thus will not be missed.

                21

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘I think technically we are in a depression now.’

                Not true, the world is heading for a technical recession and a depression won’t happen because two major players will reach accommodation.

                This is not a conspiracy website, all we are saying is that CO2 doesn’t cause global warming and as a consequence (in this instance) the precautionary principle is flawed.

                10

            • #
              Bill In Oz

              Well said Rick !
              Thank you
              Bill

              21

            • #
              farmerbraun

              ” more people out and about our neighbourhood than ever before.”.

              Yeh , I see the same thing here every day, heaps of them , and none are from my neighbourhood . I know all my neighbours.
              That’s why I call this the lock-down that you have when you’re not having a lock-down.

              31

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Ok, bad news about most phones – when you turn them “off”, they still stay active so they can still find towers ( and you can be tracked ). This also may be why the phones batteries are near impossible to remove…stops people taking them out.

          Unless you can physically remove the battery , you need to wrap the phone completely in alfoil or stick it in a faraday cage to stop it talking to a tower.

          Now, add in the planned “snitch” modifications to allow smartphones to use your phone contact list and “listen” for all phones nearby and report back to the govt for “cov19 contact tracking” ( and likely for whatever they want later ) , and thats a big no thanks from me……

          As one NSA dude once said, you can have privacy or a phone, but not both.

          40

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        “At the moment to end this all we have to do is rise up walk outside ”

        5;30 am.

        I’m going out on Anzac day to search for people who remember.

        KK

        40

        • #
          MP

          I am to far from the memorials and it is not the right time, fear grips the people.

          I will always remember, I will never forget, I will never back down.

          15

      • #
        WXcycles

        Provocateur.

        50

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Wouldn’t it be better to change the town’s name?

      Like say: Whitetown?

      That’s bound to reflect something or other. Virtue perhaps?

      20

    • #
      TdeF

      This is an argument for white concrete roads. You have to love councils. They have no limit of other people’s money. Perhaps they could ask their ratepayers if they want to pay for this?

      51

    • #
      tonyb

      from your link

      ‘Dark road surfaces are a contributor to urban heat, which in turn is a contributor to climate change.’

      I thought we were told the Urban Heat Island is strictly local in its effect and had no impact on overall temperature in the wider area or on climate change?

      Mind you presumably there is some sort of carbon cost to processing, transporting and laying this material.Taking that into account is there an overall benefit over just leaving the existing material in place?

      The UHI effect is positively beneficial in some countries in keeping temperatures at night several degrees higher than it otherwise would be (such as London) but perhaps that does not apply in hot Australia?

      30

  • #
  • #
  • #
    Kneel

    Why don’t we listen to this guy?

    Here’s some basic background:
    * epidemiologist
    * specialised in epidemics
    * 35 years experience in that speciality
    * lives in NYC
    * as you might guess, at least on the cusp of “at risk” (ie >60 y.o.)

    Here’s a place he worked: http://www2.rockefeller.edu/ccts/rdbs
    Here’s one profile of him: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Knut_M_Wittkowski

    Here’s what he thinks:
    https://youtu.be/lGC5sGdz4kg

    Summary:
    Q. What should we do?
    A. Nothing. If we did nothing, it would already be over.

    Q. What about “social distancing”?
    A. Almost guarantees a second wave

    Q. Should we shut down schools?
    A. No, that is the worst thing to do.

    Q. Are you worried for yourself?
    A. No.

    Q. But it’s a pandemic!
    A. We have a pandemic every year – it’s called the flu.

    How much did this cost us in Gov spending again?
    How many businesses killed by this?
    How many people unemployed?
    How many lives ruined?
    How many freedoms lost?
    How many fines issued?
    Can you find an epidemiologist of similar standing and experience that disagrees?

    102

    • #
      farmerbraun

      You want a dispassionate view , ask a veterinary epidemiologist, or a population biologist.
      It’s highly likely that both disciplines mentioned do agree with this bloke.

      61

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Kneel,

      I’ve linked to that before. Jo doesn’t like him because he defuses the situation. 🙂

      42

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        KK, he doesn’t defuse anything. He confuses it. He’s dangerous.

        Read what he said.

        See my comment at 18.8 below.

        20

    • #
      toorightmate

      I know a lady who has scant regard for the Prof and doubts that he should be a Prof.
      I think he is very, very good.
      He appears to me to far more qualified and experienced on the subject at hand than most of the “experts” we are hearing from.

      42

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      You also need to look at it in terms of what Big Gov has to gain from it.

      The answer is huge levels of state snooping and control, control & control. The snitch mods to android and IOS should tell you that. The big benefit of 9 / 11 was huge intrusion by Big Gov into peoples lives via Patriot Act and the hated TSA. So while people were chasing shadows, the Elite had a new legal rubber gloved hand up everyones butts of surveillance.

      Ive always advocated taking a hit to re-open the economy with tight protective measures around the 70+ age group.

      The current killing off of small business and the impoverishment of the middle class is a central aim of communism.

      Ankle bracelets for tracking “offenders” , $11000 fines for just being out and about, limiting gatherings to 2 peoole ( like in communist countries) now snitch software baked into most phone operating systems? The virus is the distraction, its another 9 / 11 in thats stolen more freedoms under the guise of “The War on Covid19”.

      Exact same play book….

      81

      • #
        MP

        The agenda is to kill the middle class economy, (along with everything else) we are the worthless eaters.

        24

      • #
        MP

        It is always the same script, just a different villain

        Need to leave your phones at home. Anyone want a bet this will be illegal soon.

        34

    • #
      RickWill

      Knut is another 1st order dingbat who cannot see the bleeding obvious. Let to run its course CV19 would devastate society. The evidence for that is bleeding obvious.

      Anyone who presents a long list of credentials to justify their point of view is at least a 2nd order dingbat – think Michael Mann; the UN IPCC’s useful idiot.

      77

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Knut

        Sat on the shore in his throne chair.

        He commanded the ocean to remain at low tide.

        The ocean ignored the great King and wet his feet.

        He demonstrated that he was only human.

        Can any of our current “leaders” demonstrate that they are similarly prepared to bow to Common Sense and follow Reality.

        KK

        52

    • #
      TdeF

      Turkey has just announced a complete lock down. They tried it his way. It didn’t work.

      Turkey is now tracking with the US, Spain, Germany and Italy. Although they have pulled it back from doubling every two days to doubling every four days, but that still means a month to 1000x the number of cases and two months to 1000000x the number.

      Currently at 52,000 cases. Turkey will have 52 million cases in a month. And that will mean about 10 million seeking hospitalization and about 5 million deaths. Actually not bad for a pandemic compare to the Black Death but unacceptable to any politician who wants to keep their jobs. And as Boris found out, survive themselves. Viruses do not care how important or rich you are. One touch k*llers.

      102

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Ahhh ! From New York
      Where 10,000 are dead
      The dead are many !
      But they have no voice !
      Nor lives any longer !
      The “Let it Rip’ idiots can be found in every profession.
      And every place.

      How fortunate we are that SloMo
      Stopped listening to them
      And pulled his finger out at last in March !

      After doing SFA for almost 2 months
      Because he listened to
      The “Let it Rip’ idiots !

      51

      • #
        TdeF

        One was an oncologist. It is a very depressing even frightening profession for an idealistic caring young doctor. Some are scarred by it and brutally fatalistic. Like the one advising Obama and representing WHO in America. He wrote an article in 2014 where he said no one should live beyond 75, including himself. He is now an adviser to Joe Biden (78)

        This fatalism the public finds hard to understand and because they think doctors are sainted and want only to save lives but some doctors are just numbers men. Survival of the fittest. To them a pandemic like the Black Death or Wu Flu is just nature’s way. And not a bad thing, more the point.

        On the other side politicians are also brutal pragmatists and know they will not long survive a pandemic over which they presided. So they have to stop it, or pretend it does not exist as in China and North Korea and Venezuela. You have to wonder though if President Xi can hide from this.

        61

      • #
        farmerbraun

        Did Oz not quarantine the first “mercy” flight from Wuhan?
        Princess Jacinda did that and then let it rip for 8 weeks , cruise ships and all.
        After that she re -introduced compulsory quarantine again.
        Good thinking eh?

        71

      • #
        Boris

        Bill,

        Here’s some homework for you.

        Cause of death labeling is inaccurate. CDC directives recommend that any suspected COVID death be labeled as such even when testing is not available. The following quote is taken from the CDC’s website linked below:

        “In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely.”

        https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

        The CDC currently allows hospitals to guess that death was caused by COVID. But why would hospitals do that? According to S.3548, the stimulus package passed during the “pandemic”, hospitals will receive more money for each case of COVID (see Sec. 4409). This suggests that there is a financial incentive to report as many deaths as possible as COVID deaths, and in doing so hospitals can claim that they were merely adhering to CDC guidelines.

        https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3548/text#toc-idd8192958b0bc4714a9862fa7d03cd70e

        It isn’t the first time we’ve been scammed. In the wake of the H1N1 swine flu pandemic of 2009, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe recognized fraudulent activity on the part of the World Health Organization (WHO) and the pharmaceutical industry. They noted that the WHO had suspiciously revised their definition of a pandemic for the first time coincidentally “just before the declaration of the H1N1 pandemic,” (paragraph 14) and that the virus would not have been classified as such with the older definition in place. As a result, the pharmaceutical industry realized record breaking sales for vaccines that largely went unused (paragraph 41) because the virus was not lethal. Like COVID, the data was manipulated and the public terrorized because “no clear distinction had been made between patients dying with swine flu … and patients dying of swine flu” (paragraph 13).

        https://assembly.coe.int/CommitteeDocs/2010/20100329_MemorandumPandemie_E.pdf

        31

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Boris you ask me to go round & round in your dopey circles
          Wasting my time and life.
          Instead I will say this
          “They have the symptoms of COVID 19,
          They need the treatment given to COVID19 victims;
          And it kills like COVID 19.”

          End of story !

          Stop wasting your time being a contrarian here Boris.
          Demanding more ‘evidence from tests’
          Is just being bloody minded.

          15

          • #
            Boris

            But it’s not “End of story!”

            You’re being deliberately obtuse regarding the details.
            What was that about pointing fingers at “dingbats”, if the shoe fits , wear it, Bill.

            31

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The US military apparently has many cases now.
        It may decimate the military.

        I heard audio of the US Navy Secretary directly blame China, by name, for the virus.

        https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/navy-secretary-blasts-fired-theodore-roosevelt-captain-in-crew-speech-2020-4-1029068547?op=1

        “In speech to sailors, Navy secretary blasted fired carrier captain, railed at media, and blamed China for coronavirus
        David Choi

        “Apr. 6, 2020, 11:36 AM
        Alex Brandon/AP

        “Acting Navy secretary Thomas Modly made an impassioned speech to sailors on the USS Theodore Roosevelt, days after he dismissed its commanding officer over a leaked letter.

        “Modly, who visited the ship in Guam on Monday, made an all-hands call to the carrier’s crew. Business Insider obtained a copy of the call and confirmed its authenticity.

        “”He was either A: too naive, or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this,” Modly said of Capt. Brett Crozier. “The alternative is that he did this on purpose.”

        “Modly also suggested the news media were too partisan to be trusted and said China was to blame for the coronavirus.

        13

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Modly has resigned !
          ‘Disgraced by his own stupidity.
          And by the outright anger of USA navel personal
          Both officers & men loathe the idiot;
          And are pleased he’s is now gone..

          12

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Did anybody actually listen to what he said?

      This from the transcript:

      WITTKOWSKI: We don’t die of the virus. We die of pneumonia. So, if we have a virus respiratory disease, the disease—once the body has created antibodies, the immune system has created antibodies, the antibodies, or the immune system is killing all infected cells which destroys much of the mucosa. And bacteria can easily settle on that destroyed mucosa, and then cause pneumonia. And it is the pneumonia that is killing people, if it’s not treated. I had a virus, whatever it was, maybe it was—who knows—about three weeks ago, and my physician gave me the antibiotics I should take if the disease gets better and then gets worse, because that is a sign of pneumonia and then we have to treat the pneumonia.

      My bold.

      The good professor is clearly ill-informed as to the reason for death from the virus.

      And people tell us that we should act on his advice? Madness, in spades.

      32

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Sam Sam !
        The victims of this disease do NOT die from pneumonia !
        That at least we now know for sure.
        And that is a basic aspect that this Witto gets dead wrong.
        As Rick said he’s a German Dingbat !
        And not even the Germans pay any attention to him
        A first order Dumbnut !

        22

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Exactly Bill.

          That’s why I’m curious as to whether those who are promoting his lunacy have actually listened to what he said. Or, indeed, understand the implications of his ignorance.

          21

    • #
      Sunni Bakchat

      Reading some of the comments below, I thought i might have been re-reading Arthur Miller’s The Crucible again. Such is the state of mind in Australia at the moment.

      01

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  • #
    Kneel

    “The COVID-19 death risk in people <65 years old during the period of fatalities from the epidemic was equivalent to the death risk from driving between 9 miles per day (Germany) and 415 miles per day (New York City),"

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.05.20054361v1

    23

    • #
      RickWill

      There is no location in the first world that has not taken action to stop the rapid spread of the virus. Any data available now incorporates that action. In the locations where the medical systems were overwhelmed, the death profile was skewed by triage decisions; old people and those with existing conditions were shown deaths door rather than getting full care. In the USA the death rate is skewed by wealth and access to good medical care.

      The statistics you quote are irrelevant to any situation where there was government action to control the spread.

      The lockdown in Australia has reduced the road toll by more than the total CV19 deaths. That simply means the lockdown and social distancing was extremely effective in saving life. Australia’s essential services and supply chains are working better than ever because of the reduced demand on the infrastructure from non-essential activities.

      Those in the front line either at home or maintaining social distance when getting essentials are the true heroes, They have sacrificed normal activities to keep others safe. Australia has demonstrated we are a country of heroes prepared to sacrifice a little of our own freedom to the benefit of the whole country. When I look around me at home or out getting essentials I am proud to see the vast majority of fellow Australians looking after each other. We are, at core, a selfless mob; willing to give more than we are prepared to take.

      93

      • #
        farmerbraun

        Spoken like a true “townie”. 🙂

        43

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          And written by you like
          A foreign ignoramus.
          How good we no longer listen to such !

          33

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Twas on the good ship Venus.

            Heavens above you shoulda seenus.

            The captain’s name was,,,,,,,

            Gotta stop there, that “Bill word” again.

            11

          • #
            Sunni Bakchat

            Bill in Oz,

            there are “None so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see.” Matthew Henry, Clergyman, 17thC.

            To which i’d add, there’s a certain blissfully ignorant certitude in those subservient to the above proverb.

            01

      • #
        MP

        My god man your drivel is ridicules.

        All your numbers that are sprouted are from the people who are driving this agenda.

        Hero’s, the definition is “those who risk their lives to save others”
        You not going to the pub for a beer does not make you a hero. It makes you part of the problem.

        Who do you work for?

        44

        • #
          RickWill

          Hero by definition:

          a person who is admired for their courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.

          You are the one placing freedom above all else – including life it seems. A noble person prepared to sacrifice some absolutely precious freedom of movement and association to lower the risk of death to others is a true hero by definition.

          41

          • #
            MP

            That’s the new definition. A sportsman is not a hero, Slomo is not a Hero, Olympians are not hero’s, Bill Gates is not a hero.

            Freedom is above all else, our rights are above all else.

            Hero’s you are not one, have never been one and will never be one. You live in fear. You are just fearful.
            My mother when diagnosed said to me, Life is not about quantity its about Quality, its all about the Quality of life.

            I think we had that once.

            15

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              “its about Quality,
              its all about the Quality of life.”

              Did we strive;

              To live each day to the full.

              To learn something new.

              To interact with our society to make it better.

              To work and build.

              To push back against falseness and duplicity and all forms of ugly self interest.

              Did we. If yes we can leave here fulfilled.

              KK

              20

            • #
              DOC

              MP
              You think this is an agenda! What planet did you come from?

              Those medical staff, nurses, technicians, ward cleaners etc. They are heroes, and I’m
              not one of them. You get life-threatening unwell with this contagious virus and they
              give up all those ‘rights’ you talk about to save your useless corpse. The right to
              life doesn’t exist for them in this emergent action. One spit in the eye from a virus
              laden spit and they are potentially cactus. You didn’t ask them to do the job? Well, don’t roll up to hospital when you can’t breathe; keep your dedication to your rights to the full even as you die.

              That’s called courageous.Martyrdom for ones beliefs.
              Excuse me for all the ‘f’ words I left out.

              Sometimes you depend on most people to give up their ‘freedoms’ to keep you alive so you can expound yours. Those people I mentioned have all the relationships and families
              at home that you might have. They also take on the responsibilities of a job which
              at this time is precarious to life itself – not just to the patient but also to themselves. They are surrendering their rights to health and extended life to look after any person that needs their presence to survive. Get real!

              The other point I would make is, what is your price in lives lost that you continue to
              lay claim to for all your own rights. Those are the lives lost as the price to society
              of prematurely dropping all the restrictions you so abhor because they limit your own rights. I’m not willing to pay your price as the risk to my life or those of my loved ones.

              41

      • #
        TdeF

        And it has stopped the flu deaths. Running at 2,000 a year, that’s about 160 lives so far.

        When this is over and strict airport testing in place, as it must be, we want to see innoculation papers from every visitor or better still, testing for every virus we do not want in this country. That’s 8.5 million visitors a year to be tested. And 12 million Australians returning. There’s enough money in that to get every pharmaceutical company excited, even more than the profit from innoculating the entire population. And money drives research.

        72

    • #
      Raving

      Another day, another retirement home …

      “5 deaths due to COVID-19 at North York retirement home, 23 test positive as provincial death toll rises to 274”
      https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/covid-19-april-12-ontario-1.5530214

      01

    • #
      Raving

      19+ dead from ‘road accidents so far in Ontario

      “According to Monday’s epidemiological summary, one deceased patient is between the age of 20 and 39. The summary also shows that 18 patients who died were between the ages of 40 and 59, another 89 deceased patients were between the ages of 60 and 79 and 183 patients who died were 80 years of age or older.”

      https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-confirms-421-new-covid-19-cases-death-toll-nears-300-1.4893707

      01

      • #
        farmerbraun

        Today , the day after the Easter holidays, I hear a clearly discernible shift in the less-than-subliminal public service broadcasting (I only have radio).
        Not returning to work after public holidays will be a sharp learning experience for a large number of Kiwis.
        Airline pilots were mentioned as a significant group among the 25,000 who applied for 2000 supermarket(Woolworth’s Countdown)jobs – supermarkets hiring while other shops remain closed.

        Covid-19 has been relegated in importance ; this is now all about the economy (read the Depression) .

        Tree planting in the order of billions is now on the table, Pakistan announcing 10 billion to trump “P.M.” Jacinda Ardern’s measly “aspirational only” 1 billion trees.
        NZ planted huge areas in pines during the last depression(1930s). Those areas are now hosting unsustainable dairying , or so it seems.
        Rest homes now cordoned off and new entrants will be required to prove their health before admission , but family visits are already off. So if you want to see your elderly parents again , you can skype them in the rest home . This is as the rest home deaths become the topic du jour.

        Treasury modelling of different “lockdown ” scenarios will be presented today, to prepare folks for the economic impacts of the Depression (without mentioning it of course).
        Then tomorrow , when that has been absorbed, the Finance Minister will announce his response.

        There was a reference to extended Emergency, ” years ” got an honourable mention,letting people know that the “reset” which was publicly acknowledged by the Deputy P.M. at formation of the coalition government , two years ago is the only game in town now.

        Watch this space. NZ does it first and bestest (but it’s just aspirational, just like the tree planting was , until now).

        30

        • #
          farmerbraun

          I was going to mention the suicides , but that is unlikely to be official news any time soon. But it’s happening.

          31

          • #
            Raving

            Always been baffled by the ‘trouble’ in New Zealand’s paradise. Place seems to have so much going for it. Never been there. Know things have been tough inthe past. Hard to relate to the difficulties which are unseen and cryptic

            10

            • #
              farmerbraun

              Some of it stems from its membership of Five Eyes (+1). That always leads to the suborning of politicians who allow themselves to be compromised by “our very , very, very good friends”.( Rumsfeldt[spelling?] to Helen Clark I recall).
              The same hating and wrecking element, call it what you will, that was a theme in “Poor Fella My Country”, has always been working in NZ, especially amongst some labour unions and more recently in the Green Party.
              You’re in Canada , right?

              20

              • #
                farmerbraun

                The book referred to in the 2nd paragraph is an Australian novel.

                10

              • #
                Raving

                Canada, yes. The only thing I can relate to is a kind of ‘super provincialism’. That being as all isolated backwater where a small number of families havea lock hold on big chunks of the econony. It happen herein Canada and for some reason I tag it as being provincial.

                There is a sense of desperation in being unable to cash in on the opportunity because others block the way

                10

              • #
                Raving

                You have proportional representation in government. So does Australia. Is there any country in the world where it works? Switzerland? Germany? Sweden?

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

                11

              • #
                farmerbraun

                Well to me Canada is a number of separate provinces , all very different.
                NZ has one or two families occupying similar positions, particularly in energy.

                The “transformation ” of education over 2 or 3 decades has seen an emphasis of the “specialness” of every snowflake , which word eventually became a meme.
                Narcissism 101 if you like.
                However it happened , Narcissistic Personality Disorder has been weaponised .
                The “troubles” have always been there, disproportionately among the indigenous, but spreading everywhere in recent times , to the point where we have some of the worst “stats” in the West.
                farmerbraun jnr. jnr. B. Eng. had a bit of an episode after slowly working his way unaided to the realisation that the world he had been led to believe that he would be growing into, no longer existed. For some , that is fatal.

                So we have some very fragile people , ill-prepared for a “transformed” world .

                30

              • #
                farmerbraun

                The reason that proportional representation ‘FAILED” at the last NZ election was the declaration by the Trotskyites, who took over the Green Party, that they were inseparable from the much larger and less radical Labour Party , the left rump.

                This meant that a vote for “green” ideals was a vote against conservatism , loosely represented by the National Party , which received the largest number of votes.

                That left a minor party, NZ First, which occupies the ground formerly the province of the National conservatives , holding the joker.
                National took an arrogant and derisory stance in the negotiations, and NZ First was left with the least unpalatable option , which it took , believing that the threat of dissolution of government could be used to control the worst excesses of the Labour /Green faction.
                It remains to be seen if NZ First can pull this off. We wait and hope.

                10

  • #
    Robber

    Active CV19 cases in Australia now 2,928, was 3,343 7 days ago, 3,745 2 weeks ago.
    Total recovered cases now 3,338.
    7 day rolling average of new cases now 92 per day, down from peak of 376 for week ending March 29.
    If trend continues, Australia will be at zero new cases before the end of April.
    Which state will be the first to ease restrictions? In Victoria the Premier just announced a 4 week extension of the State of Emergency.

    70

    • #
      toorightmate

      And doesn’t Daniel Andrews love making those announcement. The look of a gleeful power merchant can not be hidden.

      41

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        He appears to love locking people down…..

        Communism loves locking people down….bread lines, queuing for essentials, testriction of movement, Big Gov messing with people on a whim….

        Soviet Union or Victoriastan?

        51

        • #
          farmerbraun

          No, no , no , you have it wrong Citizen. “It’s the economy (read Depression) stupid”
          h/t Bill Clinton.

          10

    • #
      RickWill

      I think SA will be first to ease restrictions.

      The extended State of Emergency in Victoria does not automatically imply that all the existing restrictions will remain. I think that needs to be in place to restrict movement. For example, there are people just arriving on overseas flights going into two weeks quarantine. I think that is only legally enforceable by the states under conditions of emergency. I am not even sure if the Federal government has the power to detain citizens under such circumstances.

      I do not know on what grounds, other than state of emergency or suspected terrorist, that the state and federal governments can detail individuals for long periods.

      52

      • #
        toorightmate

        SA has the advantage of having heaps of spare money because they have zero cost wind power.
        The CF at present is 4%.

        71

      • #
        MP

        “I think SA will be first to ease restrictions”

        I do not see a lot of thinking coming from you.

        17

        • #
          RickWill

          My thought process is based on what I have seen written and stated by those making the rules:
          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8202231/Western-Australia-South-Australia-coronavirus-guinea-pigs-ease-lockdowns.html
          Also in the Adelaide papers if you have subscription.

          Two Australian states could become ‘guinea pigs’ for easing the strict lockdown measures in place to slow the spread of the coronavirus.

          Western Australia and South Australia are the first two states likely to have lockdown measures relaxed as Australia’s infection rate slows to just two per cent.

          The two states have the lowest number of cases and community transmissions out of all the mainland states – with WA having 481 and and South Australia 420.

          Australia’s death toll from the virus has reached 51 and there are 6,089 cases of COVID-19 nationally.

          41

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        I agree Rick. SA detected
        Zero new cases yesterday
        But the easing of restrictions will be gardual.

        21

    • #
      MP

      Changes were made to the (I can’t recall the doc) Bio security act, public safety act, (2014?) to allow marshal law without going under the military. (its not called ML) I remember when a state of emergency is declared it is for three months, it can be extended as well as removed, the extension is automatically for three months as this is how the clause is written.

      Coincidence?

      14

    • #
      TdeF

      Thanks for those numbers. I was looking for them, doing the same calculations.

      To be fair with Daniel Andrews, he has been right, much as I hate to say it. And his four weeks takes us to mid May. That’s about right as we have to give two weeks from the last reported case.

      However Small towns and village level non car based areas could be allowed. Just no visitors. If there is going to be a single live carrier, it has to be geographically contained as much as possible.

      52

      • #
        el gordo

        The rural and regional areas throughout Australia, with no new cases over a two week period, should relax all restrictions. My suggestion is to use federal boundaries as a way to unlock the land.

        The socialists think this is good news and I agree with them.

        https://www.domain.com.au/news/hobart-rent-report-948012/?utm_campaign=strap-masthead&utm_source=smh&utm_medium=link&utm_content=pos5&ref=pos1

        10

        • #
          TdeF

          I am sure small towns can open for business and get back to life by 1 April but it pays to be safe. People will flout the rules. It only takes a girlfriend in another town and what’s the harm in that? So 14th April. Still we have to minimize traffic and people need to be wary of outsiders, for their own good. And be prepared to go into lockdown with a single case.

          10

          • #
            el gordo

            Out in the bush most of the cases emerged from the Ruby Princess, so life should be back to normal by May 1.

            ‘It only takes a girlfriend in another town and what’s the harm in that?’

            None at all, we need to take our chances, love waits for no man.

            10

  • #
    el gordo

    They found the culprit who caused this social mayhem.

    “RaTG13 is the name, rank and serial number of an individual horseshoe bat of the species Rhinolophus affinis, or rather of a sample of its feces collected in 2013 in a cave in Yunnan, China. The sample was collected by hazmat-clad scientists from the Institute of Virology in Wuhan that year. Stored away and forgotten until January this year, the sample from the horseshoe bat contains the virus that causes Covid-19.” (WUWT)

    51

  • #

    Say,

    has anyone heard anything recently from the Chinese President for life Xi Jinping?

    For a man so often in the news, he’s been surprisingly quiet for the last well, however long it’s been. Just that handshake with a good friend in January, as shown at this article from 11 hours ago.

    Tony.

    130

  • #

    TonyfromOz in Moderation (April 13, 2020 at 9.22 am)

    30

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Considering the effects of Covid-19 globally the term Bat%h!T Crazy can be applied here with huge amounts of irony.

    40

    • #
      Yonniestone

      For elgordo #22.

      20

      • #
        el gordo

        But wait there is more madness …

        ‘The sale of wild animals such as bats, civets, snakes, monkeys, ostriches and pangolins, and rhino horns was prohibited in China itself on February 24 as a “potential risk to public health” in the words of China’s state media.

        ‘But Beijing is allowing its wildlife traders to sell these and other wild creatures to the world. And not only allowing it but promoting it using tax incentives.

        ‘This is so mindbogglingly reckless … ‘ SMH

        20

  • #
    Lance

    Interesting stuff here.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32231345

    unwrapped, here: https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/scientists-discover-coronavirus-can-kill-immune-cells-usually-used-to-fight-off-illness/news-story/7f1218a91d342d73b827177c51a3828a

    The COV ‘traps’ T Lymphocytes and prevents the immune system from destroying the virus and infected cell.

    “The scientists did note one main difference in their comparison between coronavirus and HIV. In COVID-19 patients, coronavirus was not able to grow or generate more infected cells after latching onto T cells.”

    30

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    I do hope the return to cooler weather in Western Australia is bringing some relief. Must have been tough with 39 degree temps in Autumn.

    34

    • #
      farmerbraun

      What were the night -time temperatures like?

      31

    • #
      Annie

      Lucky them; we had a cold dreary weekend.

      50

    • #
      Ian Hill

      With apologies to Speedy, Adelaide has had “dangerously normal weather” for about ten consecutive weeks, since the beginning of February. I’ve never known anything like it. Of course something arrived to spoil the party!

      60

    • #
      AndyG55

      Hey, PF, did you know that Greenland had its COLDEST day ever in January..

      Even after all the Arctic Gerbil Worming !

      “Coldest ever day in Greenland -65C comes, goes, no one notices. The coldest ever day recorded in Greenland stands at -63.3 C (minus 81 F). But on January 2nd in 2020, after Greenland suffered a century of global warming, the thermometer at Summit Camp sunk to at least -64.9C.”

      Isn’t WEATHER variability marvelous. 😉

      Now, do you have any empirical evidence at all that the slight warming since the coldest period in 10,000 years, has been caused by human CO2 ?

      60

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        one day at one possibly faulty station (and reported here at JoNova), vs 1 week at multi-stations – love your anti science, and no it was not a UHI as it was reported wider than that. But dream on

        04

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Urban Heat Island effects runs rampant !
      Jolly good of BOM to not find this out

      21

  • #
    Peter

    My neighbour is cutting down heaps of large gum trees today so the sun can get on the solar panels he’s installed. I think solar is so bad for the environment just for the amount of trees that get cut down for them. I live on acreage and thousands of trees in my neighbourhood have been cleared for solar panels.

    90

  • #
    MP

    Meanwhile in Tasmania.
    News agents are an essential service?
    No more bunnings, what was the unemployment numbers again.

    Mr Gutwein also announced restrictions on retailers in the north-west region from midnight Sunday.

    The areas that the new, “stronger” measures apply to include Latrobe, Kentish, Devonport and Central Coast, Burnie, Wynyard, Waratah, Circular Head and the West Coast.

    Coronavirus questions answered
    Coronavirus questions answered
    Breaking down the latest news and research to understand how the world is living through an epidemic, this is the ABC’s Coronacast podcast.
    Under the restrictions, all businesses except for those offering medical services as well as pharmacies, supermarkets, businesses providing food, takeaway businesses, bakeries, service stations, laundromats, dry cleaners, newsagents, bottle shops, car repairers, banks and veterinary services will have to close for two weeks.

    All businesses are allowed to continue with online services, if they can arrange home deliveries.

    K-Mart, Target and Harvey Norman will have to close, while hardware store Bunnings will remain open for trade customers only.

    Local government services will continue to operate, as determined by each local council.

    42

    • #
      farmerbraun

      Boy , now that’s world leading in its lack of restriction ; at least in Australasia.
      In Godzone it’s Agriculture and its service industries; supermarkets ; pharmacies ; and fuel outlets , that can stay open. That’s all.

      61

  • #
    Slithers

    People at work or exercising?
    The Daily Mail had an interesting photo of the Bondi Beach pavement.
    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/coronavirus/a-tale-of-two-states-hundreds-flock-to-the-ocean-for-a-day-in-the-sun-in-sydney-while-queensland-police-check-everyone-trying-to-cross-over-the-border/ar-BB12sU6L?ocid=spartandhp&fullscreen=true#image=BB12sU6L_1|1
    First photo down in the report.
    Are the three young ladies exercising or working?

    40

  • #

    I wonder how many farmers and graziers are obeying the order to stay locked inside their homes.

    I wonder if Woolies in the poorer suburbs get as many delivery trucks as, say, those Woolies stores in the ‘better class’ suburbs.

    I wonder if there is much social distancing when female politicians get ‘hair and makeup’ before appearing in front of the cameras to tell us all to keep social distancing.

    I wonder if said politicians, any of them, actually go into a supermarket.

    I wonder if those politicians have their number plates checked by roving police vehicles, and subjected to the fines for ‘non essential’ travel. Oh, no, wait a minute they’re all in Government taxpayer funded vehicles with drivers who (outside of their job) go back to being the nobody they are while doing their job. (Sorry Premier, I can’t come in today, as I got busted and fined $1334 whilst driving home.)

    Funny isn’t it. A Council election right smack in the middle of the first flush of this disease is all okay for people to go to polling booths, but a State election after six Months of isolation, when we are told it will be okay to resume normal activity has to be all done by a mail in vote for everyone. (which is on the cards here in Queensland)

    Tony.

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    • #
      MP

      Graziers none, but we are confined to property in a sort of sense, though most also have cattle on agistment so travel we must, gets the work tick.

      In my town the local cop gets in on the chin wagging, no social distancing, no gloves, no hand wash, we still shake hands, I will only spend cash, if they refuse cash, I will go else where. I take the change and pocket it. The new young cop is over the top, (ask the neighbour) but everything done was undone, he will come around. Both of them are in the same car, windows up, aircon on recycle.
      But like most communities the Meth epidemic is the real Virus, it is destroying 10’s of thousands of lives, they don’t even try and hide. the dealings, same people same place every time I go to town.
      Really sad.
      I am looking forward to Tuesday for Chairman Morrison to give us the new laws, him and his can ignore.

      82

      • #
        toorightmate

        Meth will continue to outpace Coronavirus hands down.

        71

        • #
          farmerbraun

          Let’s not go there. I don’t need any reminders. My rural loop road has been P Central for a while but now it’s really busy.
          I can tell you exactly how it’s done.

          10

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      In a tool shop today, tradies were helping each other open boxes ( had to buy some essential plumbing supplies ) and social distancing… I think most people reckon its a bit of joke. You can see the guys working appear to be just going through the motions….

      30

  • #
    joseph

    ‘Robert F Kennedy Jr. Responds to Bill Gates’ Statements on a Mandatory Coronavirus Vaccine’

    “Vaccines, for Bill Gates, are a strategic philanthropy that feed his many vaccine-related businesses (including Microsoft’s ambition to control a global vac ID enterprise) and give him dictatorial control over global health policy—the spear tip of corporate neo-imperialism.
    Gates’ obsession with vaccines seems fueled by a messianic conviction that he is ordained to save the world with technology and a god-like willingness to experiment with the lives of lesser humans.
    Promising to eradicate Polio with $1.2 billion, Gates took control of India ‘s National Advisory Board (NAB) and mandated 50 polio vaccines (up from 5) to every child before age 5. Indian doctors blame the Gates campaign for a devastating vaccine-strain polio epidemic that paralyzed 496,000 children between 2000 and 2017. In 2017, the Indian Government dialed back Gates’ vaccine regimen and evicted Gates and his cronies from the NAB. Polio paralysis rates dropped precipitously.
    In 2017, the World Health Organization reluctantly admitted that the global polio explosion is predominantly vaccine strain, meaning it is coming from Gates’ Vaccine Program. The most frightening epidemics in Congo, the Philippines, and Afghanistan are all linked to Gates’ vaccines. By 2018, ¾ of global polio cases were from Gates’ vaccines.
    In 2014, the Gates Foundation funded tests of experimental HPV vaccines, developed by GSK and Merck, on 23,000 young girls in remote Indian provinces. Approximately 1,200 suffered severe side effects, including autoimmune and fertility disorders. Seven died. Indian government investigations charged that Gates funded researchers committed pervasive ethical violations: pressuring vulnerable village girls into the trial, bullying parents, forging consent forms, and refusing medical care to the injured girls. The case is now in the country’s Supreme Court.
    In 2010, the Gates Foundation funded a trial of a GSK’s experimental malaria vaccine, killing 151 African infants and causing serious adverse effects including paralysis, seizure, and febrile convulsions to 1,048 of the 5,049 children”. …Continued on slides 2 + 3.
    Continued…

    50

    • #
      TdeF

      I have no doubt Bill Gates means well. However the polio vaccine campaigns in India, Phillipines and Africa no matter how well intended are clearly a complete disaster. Other mass vaccinations have had the same result in history, which is why we are talking 12-18 months to get a proven corona virus vaccine. Even great vaccines like whooping cough have a risk which is significant if you multiply by big numbers. No one wants their child injured, so this leads to the anti-Vax campaigns which can k*ll vast numbers.

      However these disasters are enough to push him out of Philanthropy completely. This is not his field of expertise and he is trusting others. As for the suggestion that he wants to get richer, I doubt it. No one has ever had a bad word to say about Bill. And he could give away $20Million a day for the rest of his life and not get poorer.

      52

      • #
        joseph

        TdeF,

        You’ve floored me with this comment:

        “No one has ever had a bad word to say about Bill”. !?!

        33

        • #
          TdeF

          Why? Of all the world’s richest people, he is retiring, hard working and a family man. He is not flamboyant. I bought from his little company when he started and have been involved long before IBM walked in his door. I still base my work around his inventions and directions. Far from one shot wonder, his work has been a consuming passion and he has changed our world. Apple had crashed until they fired Steve Jobs and he went to work for a telephone software company. That saved Apple. These two are the great inventors of our time. They were always good people. No, I do not have a bad word to say about either. There is no expose.

          21

          • #
            joseph

            You’ve floored me again!

            02

          • #
            WXcycles

            Agree, so much BS gets flung around about people who are actually exceptional achievers, and self-made ultra rich, and deserve it. I don’t pretend such types are all benevolent or all innocuous, but I also don’t pretend they’re evil incarnate either, or guilty sans a Court and a charge they were found guilty of on the evidence presented.

            Innocent before the Law until proven guilty.

            And shame on people who would impose another standard on others, but not on themselves for spreading fake accusations without any of the substance needed to prosecute a person legitimately.

            50

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Never heard any of this before. Tragic.

      10

      • #
        farmerbraun

        But unsurprising. Say no more of this tragedy.

        10

        • #
          MP

          This is what I try and get people to look outside the MSM education system. Why is Gates and Tedros the go to Guys for MSM and Govs?
          This pair are guilty of massive crimes against humanity, that would see anybody else locked up, yet not a bad word is spoken.

          The Polio Gates introduced is more contagious than the native Polio strain, the cure is literally worse then the disease.
          Bill Gates runs the WHO, he is the biggest single donor. He who rights the cheque makes the rules. Everyone on here sprouts the same about the alarmists yet can’t see the obvious.

          20

          • #
            WXcycles

            Why is Gates and Tedros the go to Guys for MSM and Govs? …This pair are guilty of massive crimes against humanity,

            Guilt by association huh, why am I not surprised? You are so lacking substance that you had to include Tedros to impute guilt on Gates.

            … that would see anybody else locked up, yet not a bad word is spoken.

            That would be because all you have are bad words, false accusations, lies to smear, no substance which would convict them of the “massive crimes against humanity“, you assert. The man and his wife oversee a giant charity see up to make life better for people. But this is really just a shop front for, massive crimes against humanity! 🙂

            What’s amazing (and disappointing) is that the mods actually let you get away with spraying such feral bile in here.

            60

            • #
              joseph

              WXcycles,

              I think you’ll discover there’s a lot more to the Gates story if you do a little research.
              Here’s a video that was made a few years ago that touches on a some aspects.

              “How To Become A Billionaire (and what to do with it)”

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=68&v=0cOogMO_zNA&feature=emb_logo

              “Bill Gates was a talentless bum who stole every idea that ever made him any money”. Steve Jobs

              Hmmmm, that almost sounds like someone having a bad word to say about Bill. Maybe it’s a different Bill Gates?

              02

              • #
                WXcycles

                I read the link which the poster referenced and it’s the usual anti-Gates slanders and innuendo.

                https://www.corbettreport.com/episode-228-how-to-become-a-billionaire-and-what-to-do-with-it/

                i.e. more feckless bad words

                As for Steve Jobs, he had his nose bent out of shape because MS had the cheek to put a GUI shell and mouse on top of DOS in 1985 (dirt cheep too), and this gradually began to take away a chunk of Apple’s cash flow for its overpriced computers which did the same things (but often slower). But Steve Job’s and Steve Wozniak had stolen the Apple Lisa’s GUI concept from the Xerox Alto computer prototype from 1973 and evolved into the Apple Mac.

                People in glass houses …

                60

  • #
    Robber

    Just thought of some value add for the ABC: Heard of school of the air for remote students?
    Why note adapt the fringe channels of the ABC, both TV and radio, into education channels for all those students who must work from home?
    Get the best teachers leading for an hour at a time, grades 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 etc and then setting assignments followed by review sessions 4 hours later.
    Local teachers could then be called on for personal tuition where needed.

    70

  • #
    Robber

    Is WHO investigating the almost magical elimination of the CV19 virus in China?
    From 80,000 cases at the start of March, just 82,000 cases by early April, with over 77,000 recovered, and only 1,150 active cases with just 2 deaths per day in April.

    70

    • #
      TdeF

      Why would they investigate themselves? The world is already giving it a five Pinnochio rating.

      90

    • #
      DOC

      They do call the well being of China , the China miracle.
      Now its not just the economy from the CCP; it’s the health system as well!

      Do you think maybe they believe the data has to be ‘homogenised’ before release, that
      nobody need be able to view the original measured data, nor explain how the system works?
      They are very fast learners we know, and they have reporting western bureaucracies they
      can follow, never to be questioned. I wonder if they have had correspondence with
      our BOM?

      50

  • #
    PeterS

    Things are getting tougher in some places. People in Finland are being denied access to their deposit boxes without a valid reason. One would wonder if they would accept any reason if that’s the case.
    Panic buying of food in China has started. Does this mean there’s a greater risk of another virus outbreak as people there become so desperate, they will eat anything?
    Small business loans being blocked in the US. I suppose that’s so banks aren’t exposed to more defaults. That makes sense since small businesses are going down the toilet so what’s the point of opening a new business? Catch-22.
    World GDP is declining rapidly and if it goes much longer it usually means more draconian measures to control the population as people lose trust in governments and go nuts; as per history. We better hope we can relax them sooner rather than later.

    61

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      This is exactly the reason I have maintained we need the economy restarted by start of Term 3 for school. Just take thd viral hit, protect the 70+ age group and tell the useless World Bank, UN & WHO to get lost.

      70

      • #
        PeterS

        That and lots more. Scrapping the emissions reduction mantra and policies is the very first thing governments must do as they start rolling out their plans to rebuild Australia. It would be outrageous if they don’t.

        70

      • #
        TdeF

        Take the viral hit? You do mean kill a lot of ‘old’ people to ‘save’ the economy. Have you read nothing?

        11

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          It was also said:

          “protect the 70+ age group ”

          But I’d go a bit further and make it 65+

          10

          • #
            MP

            I will go further, stay home if you are afraid. let those that need/want to work, work. Everyone else stay isolated.
            It take two people to isolate from each other to be isolated. Stay apart!

            03

  • #
    TdeF

    Looking good! The number of new infections is still very low, 38 for the day. I would expect single digits by next Monday.

    And none by the following Monday, the end of the month. Then two weeks of patience to be sure, to be sure.

    By that time the hospitals will have emptied and the people in isolation. Hopefully not a case in the country. And then some reasonable restrictions on other than local travel and a ban on interstate and even intrastate travel for a month. In case a cell pops up.

    Life can resume, not least for the hospitals who have a huge backlog of work for people in need.

    I hope by that time the virus testing is comprehensive and mandatory for any incoming people, including Australians. And all the other viruses. Better to test at the airport than to have these plagues of the latest flus and measles and everything else. The cost is nothing compared to the grief.

    International travel will be impossible without secure testing. But Travel within Australia could pick up those places which will be starving for income. After all the number of tourists Australia exports is double the number who come here. And there are lots of great places most Australians have never seen.

    We might even see the airlines slash fares to encourage mass internal tourism, rather than the current ripoff $1K return Melbourne to Sydney and $3K to Broome for a holiday in Winter. QANTAS could do a lot of internal flying. It should not be cheaper to go to Paris than Broome.

    71

    • #
      RickWill

      Discussion tonight that internal fares would continue to be government subsidised after lockdown to encourage people back onto planes and holiday in Australia.

      30

      • #
        TdeF

        If they get enough traffic, there will be no need for subsidies. When I first went to China in 1998, Beijing had lines of new Jumbo 747s. They were used for short hops, not long distance travel. There is nothing like a full aircraft to drop fares. I just wonder if Australia could cope with the number of tourists at 1 million a month internally, even half a million a month. But I am sure a lot of cities would love to try!

        10

      • #
        farmerbraun

        What? In a year’s time?
        Disinformation , at best.
        “It’s the bio-security , stupid”.

        11

    • #
      Curious George

      How about test kits that guarantee no new infections? Tested in China.

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    And Sweden is now over 10,000 confirmed cases, doubling every ten days and so on an exponential curve. With less than half our population. Those few dinner parties and trips to restaurants will look lethal now as they realise the total cost of half hearted restrictions and st*pidity of herd immunity.

    The bright side is that we know how to deal with an inanimate deadly virus now. And that means all flus. And anything else for which we have a test. Humans no longer believe in survival of the fittest. Although after so much time in lockdown, this might be called survival of the fattest.

    62

    • #
      Sunni Bakchat

      TdeF, Not so quickly on Sweden. lets have a look at few things that have changed in the past little while;

      – Swedens deaths and new cases are increasing at a greatly reducing rate according to Worldometer.
      – With the understanding that we’re not dealing with viral pneumonia but instead an acute hypoxic illness, availability of ventilators is no longer the limiting factor. In the absence of other medical equipment that can reduce the case fatality rate, the limiting factor is now beds. Effectively triaged, this probably means ICU beds are also less necessary than originally anticipated.
      – Germany has managed to keeps it infection rates low and has a high rate of ICU facilities per citizen. Patients have been and can further be moved from Sweden to neighbouring German hospitals
      – Denmark and Norway, neighbours to Sweden have falling death rates and infections. Beds can also be made available in these countries.
      – Sweden’s death rate appears high but how are they doing their testing? Are they testing randomly or only those who present to the doctor and are pre-qualified? News reports suggest they have a shortage of tests and are pre-qualifying their testees with a focus on health care personnel.

      Sweden’s Prime Minister Lofvin stated in a press conference on the 31st March – “”Every Swede has the duty to protect themselves with the aim of protecting others. Cancel trips over Easter. Stay at home if you experience the slightest symptoms. Stay at home if you are over 70 or belong to another risk group.” It is evident that apart from “letting her rip” as seems to be the unchallenged dominant paradigm of thought on this blog, Swedes are being asked to take it upon themselves to do the right thing.

      The notion of taking it upon themselves to do the right thing is an interesting one. The government of Switzerland has done the same. What both Switzerland and the Scandinavian countries have in common is their liberal view of the world. The Swiss would not accept a lack of free movement in their own country except perhaps in the most dire of circumstances; which certainly don’t present themselves now. The Scandinavians are very similar in their thinking. It is doubtful they would accept restrictions given their cultural liberalism. They would however see it as their personal responsibility to behave in a manner that benefits the broader community.

      The personal responsibility aspect for the Swiss and Swedes goes back to the protestant reformation led by Zwingli in German Switzerland, Calvin in French Switzerland and Petri in Sweden. To this day, Sweden is majority protestant and canton Bern where the federal government sits, has The Swiss reform church as its majority religion. All three churches are heavily influenced by Lutheranism which places responsibility upon the individual to conduct him/herself correctly.

      The above aspects seem to have been entirely overlooked by the commentariat in their analysis on these pages. If Sweden has a similar outcome to Switzerland, it will come as no surprise. It will strike a sensible balance that seems to be entirely lost on Australians who have traditionally prided themselves on a “fair go”.

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        Raving

        Sweden has 859 in serious/critical care. That is already another 400 deaths

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          Sunni Bakchat

          Raving, It’s always unwise to count chickens before they’re hatched. Would you mind providing a link to the the source of your information. I am very interested to see how things turn out in Sweden.

          Just out of interest, you’ve mentioned on several occasions nursing home outbreaks in Canada. Is the Canadian government amending its strategy to counteract this phenomenon?

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            Raving

            Yes it is in the worldometers statistics main page. Leave the interpretation to you but the high number of serious/critical cases for Sweden Really stands out

            https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#news

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            Raving

            Yes the government isamendingtheir strategy but they will have trouble acting quickly

            Look at what happens…

            – healthcare worker infects multiple residents through close and direct contact.
            – Resident infects multiple healthcare workers through close and direct contact
            – No PPG equipment available in these facilities. Not normally used. Quickly exhaused
            – Individual healtchare works move about multiple long care homes
            – Healthcare works quit or go off sick when covid infection is discovered

            It is a complete nightmare. Conditions are ripe for explosive transmission and spread. Seems to be asimilar situation in many countries

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              Sunni Bakchat

              It sounds exactly the same as what i posted about on Lombardy vs Veneto last week. Large institutions sucking people in e-masse, who then disperse to nodes where infection iterates and multiplies. It seems to be lost on the health authorities that viruses are viral. Countering viral expansion requires counter-viral strategy. Both the network and node need to be targeted to pre-empt the establishment of new virus perpetuating networks and nodes.

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                Raving

                its so bad that the remote nodes (nursing homes) are fueling the epidemic by themselves. more healthcare workers get infected than the public overall.

                Worldwide shortage of protective gear and health care workers. Sick elderly need lots of resources to care and isolate. Its a worse problem than the main hospitals which suck up the resources

                In many countries the nursing home deaths are NOT counted as covid deaths

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                farmerbraun

                Which illustrates the mendacity of the “self-isolation ” approach that NZ espoused. It was the perfect way to shift the virus from the “porous” border out into the community where it spread and inevitably arrived in the rest homes which never were quarantined off from the infection.
                To me it’s a casebook study in pretending to achieve a desirable outcome while ensuring that the opposite result is achieved.
                But I’m paranoid 🙂

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    cedarhill

    Ran across a very interesting article that purports to explain why malaria works and usual respiratory treatments (i.e., ventilators) not so much:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb

    Call this the “hemoglobin theory of CV-19”? Even passes the smell test and Occam’s.

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    TdeF

    I also think Australia might get a lot of quarantine tourists, people who want to go somewhere safe, at any price. It seems 400 Indian Australians just landed. They chartered their plane at $5000 each, so the flight was $2Million. And they are now safely in Australia. They apparently do not have the virus, unlike those Australians who left because they could not get a refund on their luxury trip to Antarctica.

    The point is that if you have a bucket list, you do not want it to be your last. Australia might be under seige by wealthy tourists. And people who want to escape the disaster at home. That was not the point of our effective lockdown, but it may be a result.

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      Sunni Bakchat

      TdeF, if they are Australians how can they be tourists? Why would you think these Australians are wealthy?

      Those who left on the cruise had many individual reasons to travel, one of which was no doubt the terms of their contract with the cruise line. They didn’t leave Australia with the virus judging by media reports on the source. How do you know none of the Australians on the chartered flight was positive? After all something as sophisticated as testing of inbound travellers does not seem to be a priority of the Australian government.

      We’d never know how many Australians residents who only hold Australian citizenship would want to leave Australia as its not permitted at present. There might also be a lot of people like yours truly who simply aren’t interested in travelling to Australia under the current conditions where police are brutalising citizens. Most notably we might be restricted from leaving again at the end of our business or family commitments.

      Ricardo posited the theory of comparative advantage in 1817. Nobody has yet proven it incorrect. All things being equal, Australia blocking outbound travel and restricting inbound travel is very likely to provide a substantial disbenefit.

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    Red Edward

    How will you get them to leave?

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    Sunni Bakchat

    The latest stats from Switzerland for anyone who’s interested – https://www.corona-data.ch

    Closely follows Austria.

    There has been no enforceable restriction on free movement within Switzerland. No reported police brutality. Hotels have been permitted to remain open. Borders are not closed to citizens and residents. No mandatory quarantine. Residents have been trusted to act responsibly. Restrictions starting to be lifted next week. Lockdown total = One month from next Tuesday 21st April. Take note Australia!

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      WXcycles

      Good. But has it escaped your attention that Switzerland and Austria are both high mountain terrain countries, and that mountain valleys are innately more isolated? Especially in winter? And also incredibly easy to isolate further? Especially when mountain skii resorts proved to be a major source of the infection’s spread?

      There has been no enforceable restriction on free movement within Switzerland.

      But there is social pressure and a requirement to isolate, and not move about as usual. Which is the same here in QLD, where the only noticeable difference I experience is people walk to put more space between themselves and others and the supermarket requires space and care. Otherwise, almost no difference.

      No reported police brutality.

      None here either.

      And I thought I explain to you in detail that Australia is 6 separate ‘countries’, and 2 Federal territories, and that police forces, policies, and laws are different between all of them?

      Hotels have been permitted to remain open.

      Doing a thriving business no doubt! Hardly a wise move given how long observations and testing say the virus can survive on public and commercial surfaces.

      Borders are not closed to citizens and residents.

      My nearest border is 1,100 km away, I can travel anywhere I want in between, and with pre-approval for a valid purpose I can cross the border as well and return again, as long as I don’t visit specific suburbs in New South Wales.

      No mandatory quarantine.

      Same here, we have self-isolation. Only foreigners have to serve a quarantine period.

      And I notice you said, “Borders are not closed to citizens and residents.“, i.e. they are closed to foreigners, who need to serve a mandatory quarantine period, right? … right, Sunni???

      No need to struggle to misrepresent and pretend a difference exists. Your allegedly different situation and national and community response reads like it is almost exactly the same as it is in Australia.

      Residents have been trusted to act responsibly.

      Same here, how about that!

      I’m going for a long walk later today, and then to the shops, to buy a lovely steak and ingredients to make a fresh salad for it. No one is breathing down my neck, and there has not been a new cases in my Town for most of a week now. Seems it worked.

      Restrictions starting to be lifted next week.

      A tentative set of restrictions may be partially lifted next week, i.e. an experiment to see if the virus spreads again.

      I’m happy of we wait to the end of the month to make sure we have this disease almost completely eliminated in the country. Why risk large area reinfection and more closure time, when we have no pressing need to travel all over the country and those who need to can already obtain a pass to do so. I don’t see myself going anywhere near a crowd any time soon though.

      By the way, how often do you drive or take a train to Poland or Serbia? What, never? But they’re like, just a day away! Strangely, I have no burning desire to drive to the nearest town in the Northern territory, which is about 1,575 km away, this year, or next.

      Lockdown total = One month from next Tuesday 21st April.

      So what?

      … “Anyone entering Queensland from the air or by road will be forced to isolate themselves for 14 days from Wednesday night. …”

      i.e. Borders closed to open access on 0:01AM, 26th of March.

      We had local government elections State-wide on the 28th of March, and people were out ‘n about everywhere, they just social distanced and walked about freely. The local isolation in QLD did not even begin until the 30th of March (16 days ago). There have been no new cases locally for most of the week now, and only 12 active cases.

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8133745/Queensland-shut-western-border-Northern-Territory.html

      Take note Australia!

      Why? You’re bloviating again, in a parochial manner, while accusing others of doing the same just yesterday. What is it with you, tendentious superiority-complex? Delusional elitist nationalist self-image? 🙂

      As far as I read your comments, the conditions where you are in Switzerland, are little to no different to what I’m experiencing here, so pull your head out of the dark, moist place, some restrictions may be lifted here sooner than where you are. 😉

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        yarpos

        Sounds like a Sound of Music view of Switzerland. Its not isolated from France, Germany or Austria by anything other motorways.

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          Sunni Bakchat

          Yarpos, The view presented is realistic and factually based.

          The second half of your comment is not comprehensible.

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        Sunni Bakchat

        WXcycles, let me preface my response to you by reminding that when personal abuse and calumny are invoked in place of reason, science does not progress. To attempt leverage of poorly researched conclusions and faulty logic to engage in the same behaviour also does not progress matters.

        in response to your post;

        – Switzerland and Austria are partly mountainous and partly not. Both countries are approximately 60% mountainous.
        – Mountain valleys are not innately more isolated insofar as aeroslized viral transfer is concerned.
        – 18438 of the 25820 reported cases to date were recorded after the commencement of spring on March 21st. The federal health authority statistics page provided to you clearly records this.
        – Given your first three assertions are incorrect, the premise of your assertion “incredibly easy to isolate further” doesn’t make sense. In any case, there has been no legal restriction on movement within Switzerland as already stated.
        – Ski resorts did not prove to be a major source of the infections spread. A simple examination of the reported infections in the statistics page provided, demonstrates no reported infections in the canton (Graubunden) that has the highest amount of skier visitations, by March 13th when resorts were asked to close. Media records show Canton Graubunden ski resorts had already closed by this time. The other major skiing canton, Valais, had 53 infections reported out of a national total of 1191 on the same date. To date only 2300 of 255820 infections nationally have been reported in these two cantons.
        – There is not a requirement to isolate and/or move about as usual. There is a recommendation to stay at home and not travel unless required. It is very obviously not the same as Queensland. I have family and extensive business interests in Queensland. I speak regularly with family members and associates to obtain updates on the situation.
        – Brutality is defined in the OED as “unpleasant of harsh”. I can provide dozens of links from the online Australian press of “unpleasant and harsh” behaviour by the Australian police in all states since the commencement of the lockdown.
        – I’ve responded to your legal tutoring previously. It seems necessary to explain to you that i have a degree in Law, earned in Queensland. The relevance of your comment vis a vis the difference in state law is only important to the extent Queensland’s politicians, bureaucrats and judiciary interpret the required effect of the governing federal laws.
        – Some hotels have decided to close, others to stay open. Some are doing quite well, others not. The latest german research from Prof. Hendrik Streeck, et al suggests surface contamination is not the main driver of infection. Either way, washing of hands and proper disinfection of surfaces are well observed practices in Switzerland. Epidemiologists made an informed decision on hotels based of existing research on the aetiology of the virus. Hotels have not been a setting where the virus has thrived since hotel restaurants and spas were closed.
        – Thank you for confirming my point on border closures in Australia
        – Mandatory Quarantine in Australia is required for all identified persons infected with coronavirus who are not hospitalised. In addition any Austrlian citizen or resident arriving from overseas is required to spend two weeks in Quarantine isolation. non-residents and/or non-citizens are not permitted entry to Australia at present.
        – Foreigners are not permitted to enter Switzerland unless exempt under limited circumstances. No mandatory quarantine is required under any of the exemptions, or for citizens and residents returning.
        – Until there is comprehensive, randomised testing, the probability of no new cases is low.
        – There is an abundance of evidence to suggest Australians have not been trusted to act responsibly e.g. voluntary isolation in Australia was abandoned after numerous people breached the terms of same.

        The strategy adopted in Switzerland demonstrates the potential for far better economic and social outcomes than Australia. Australia has taken a heavy handed and distrustful approach to containing the virus. Australia continues to be locked down despite its low rates of infection not justifying such an approach. Australians have been lied to with regard to masks and testing efficacy. The agenda of the health authorities is far from clear. Very little guidance is being provided as to when the lockdown will end. This is a very unsatisfactory state of affairs for Australia and it suprises me many Australians have yet to realise this.

        Try to get get your facts correct and your logic free of fallacies; and save your personal insults for others.

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          WXcycles

          The lady doth protest too much. Perhaps if you didn’t constantly make broad-brush slights and jabs then gob-off about how wonderful Switzerland’s policy is, and insist on how terrible Australia’s is, you might find less rejection of your repetitious mud-slinging. At best you don’t know what you’re talking about, and at worst you believe you do, and better than the people who live here. How likely is that? 🙂

          Thank you for much less tub-thumping in future, Sunni.

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          WXcycles

          Foreigners are not permitted to enter Switzerland unless exempt under limited circumstances.

          i.e. Quarantine of Switzerland.

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    Another Ian

    “Fauci-Birx climate models?”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/13/fauci-birx-climate-models/

    ““The question is, are the models really telling us what’s going on? When someone creates a model, they put in various assumptions. And the models are only as good and as accurate as the assumptions you put into them. As we get more data, as the weeks go by, that might change. We feed the data back into the models and relook at the models.” The data can change the assumptions – and thus the models’ forecasts.”

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    Another Ian

    Beware of some “features” before you become a “Zoom” user

    ““As we shelter in our homes from one virus, we’re opening our computers up to another one.” ”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/04/13/as-we-shelter-in-our-homes-from-one-virus-were-opening-our-computers-up-to-another-one/

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    Another Ian

    “The wind takes a long weekend & signals trouble when Liddell goes off line”

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/04/13/the-wind-takes-a-long-weekend-signals-trouble-when-liddell-goes-off-line/

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    Another Ian

    “Monday Mirthiness – Gleick and Mann cluelessly trash Fred Singer’s NYT obit”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/13/monday-mirthiness-gleick-and-mann-cluelessly-trash-fred-singers-nyt-obit/

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    Robber

    A guessing competition.
    1. Name the date when zero new cases of Covid-19 will have been reported in Australia for 7 consecutive days.
    2. Name the date when the first state in Australia implements the first easing of restrictions.

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    Annie

    Belated Easter eggs coming to you Jo. Don’t eat them too quickly!

    Just seen something in The Age and OH says there is now something in The Australian about a medics’ dinner party in NW Tasmania as the source of the outbreak of Wuhan virus there.

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    el gordo

    World economic gridlock won’t finally end until November, according to a friend who dabbles in astrology, from then on it’ll be a whole new ball game.

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    farmerbraun

    I’ll try and find something better and more reliable , but this is what we have got so far:-

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12324544

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    Slithers

    My Take away thoughts.
    COVID-19 and YOU!
    There is no history about this infection. We know it is caused by a virus Novelcorona19, we know this can be deadly especially if you have a comorbidity condition.
    We all have comorbidity conditions to a lesser or greater extent, life is like that.
    There are things you can do that will reduce the severity of the infection, as, if and when you contract it.
    It is my opinion that we will all contract it at some point, this may be some mutated version, but like influenza it is here to stay as there will always be populations who have not gone through the herd immunity process which does NOT guarantee any such immunity!
    The best defense is a healthy immune system. Vitamin D is the driving force of this system so get your Vitamin D level’s checked and take appropriate action. If you don’t like that idea just get some Vitamin supplement from the chemist or supermarket and take a small daily dose.
    Quinine is known to have beneficial effects so get some anti-malaria tablets, over the counter meds here in Australia and take a very small dose, just one every other day will provide your system with enough anti Corona Virus defense to reduce if not prevent infection. An alternate is a 1litre bottle of Tonic water a week, one of the few products that successfully commercialized an ancient remedy. I wonder why it is called ‘Indian Tonic Water’?
    Regarding that infection and the severity you may suffer. This depends upon the initial virus load, Cruise Liners and Hospitals will often deliver a large dose! Your family members, a Child with flu like symptoms would give you a smaller dose, careful distancing should prevent it spreading, you may not even know if you get it. Practicing social distancing and personal hygiene, maintaining a healthy immune system are the key to minimal damage and quick recovery, so take care of the cheap, easy things and protect yourself and your family.

    I asked myself why the MSM is not shouting this from the roof tops, my alter ego replied, ‘Cos there is no money in it!’
    Bill Gates sees enormous piles of cash and POWER being delivered from his immunization and identity chip technology so beware what you agree to.
    Which is the chicken and which is the egg?
    Never let a crisis go to waste!

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