JoNova
A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).
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Statistics
As a White Anglo man I live to be first.
160
Bravo! And shout it from the rooftops. We’re mad as a wet hen and we’re not going to take it anymore.
130
I’m putting this here because I’m not sure it’s been noted previously: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-CxkCtSnLU.
160
That is the most absurd statement on climate .. well maybe not the worst but up with it.
First prize for irrationality.
71
It will make sense if you watch the video
80
Dave Cullen usually makes more sense on social issues than on climate ones..
He has said he kinda comes down on the AGW side of things, but he, I believe, would listen to counter arguments, which IMO makes him a good guy. As a YouTuber he doesn’t yet really have his head very far above the parapets, and thus doesn’t attract much return fire; however, nor does anyone try to enlighten him. I would, as I’m a subscriber to both his channels on YT and BitChute.. but I don’t have the science. Neither does he, BTW, but it would take someone with a clear, rational, not to ‘geeky’ ( sorry ) argument to get him to see the light. He is of an age, and subscriber numbers, to make the effort worthwhile.
If anyone can be bothered, I’d recommend BitChute, as the monkeys haven’t yet taken over that asylum.
00
Bemused is exactly right. I said it here not long ago. They compete for recognition like children on the school playground.
The rule in play here is very simple, if you want attention you must get one up on the other guy. And they play it strictly with themselves too. If you want to feel justified in demanding attention to yourself above all others what can be better — and easier — than to claim you are the victim who is worse off than anyone else? And warming faster obviously puts you in the worst possible place if rising temperature is the danger.
Hence the world must be warming faster wherever you are than it is anyplace else. And of course, twice as fast is twice as “better” than just faster than.
100
It also points out that there are an awful lot of people who want to be or are at least willing to be the victim of something. Otherwise why bother? But why so willing to be a victim in the first place?
50
Because it may get you something for nothing.
90
It’s the green left’s raison d’être.
80
It’s well on its way to getting us all enslaved to dictators who will not be benevolent but quite willing to punish the slightest infraction with draconian measures.
20
Cultural Marxism is based on a hierarchy of perceived victim status and perceived oppression. This is morphing into intersectionalism, eg. an abused, disabled, transgender, brown dwarf residing at the apex of perceived victimisation.
The lead oppressor is the middle aged white male, apparently.
Unadulterated irrational, vapid, intellectual self-abuse, but sadly of potentially dire, murderous consequence.
60
I’ll edit that for you
03
LD,
Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!
Do it again.
Just loved the bit about transactional gender dysmorphic victims being the spitting image of a dwarfish Neanderthal person being refused entry to the last climb on Ayers rock even though he/she was there half an hour before closing time.
Maybe I’m imagining too much?
KK
00
And if you get first and third does that make you a greedy b–?
10
No, but in the power politics of the Left, any lie is permissible if you attain power through it….
90
and any truth from everyone else is not permissible. I wonder how before the vast majority of the people realise the left, including the ALP, Greens and some in the LNP are our real enemies. Hopefully very soon either we will lose the war.
70
On a completely different note, how does one notify Jo that this site connection is now listed as insecure and that will affect manner of things on the internet?
30
The only thing that changed is that now browsers are getting their knickers in a knot when the connection is not encrypted. Now think about this site Jo runs. It is a completely open forum where anyone can connect without needing a username and password and read every last thing that anyone says. I wonder if I would encrypt everything if I ran a site like Jo’s. I probably wouldn’t.
20
What is likely to happen is that new visitors to the site will receive a ‘site not safe’ warning and may elect not to proceed. Also, not having HTTPS means that things like users email addresses may be passed through insecure means and intercepted (if that worries anyone). Also, Google ranking and perhaps even listing may disappear if a site doesn’t use HTTPS.
[Here is where you get to hear from AZ the moderator. First, Jo runs this site on volunteer contributions which means it’s always on a budget too small for the job. The complaint that she’s funded by big oil or some other deep pockets opponent of doing something about the danger of climate change is a myth, actually a lie because they know very well she has no such source of funds. She has no staff, she does it all. The only help she has is her volunteer moderators. As far as Google’s ranking of sites and other such things that could give Jo a boost in the public eye, Jo has been a thorn in the shoe of Google and others because they subscribe to climate change and Jo tells the truth. So guess how much help they are to Jo.
This gives some idea of the additional cost and complication of going to HTTPS.
https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2017/06/guide-switching-http-https/
If you feel strongly about this you can tell Jo what you think. email communication is always secure.] AZ
30
No need to get narky about this. I was simply pointing out a potential issue that could impact on the site, if that’s of any concern. Google is just one issue, it’s the browsers that are being adapted to warn/prevent users from accessing non-HTTPS sites.
I run my own site and HTTPS costs nothing, it’s a free service that’s offered by many reputable service providers (I’m with VentraIP). I went from HTTP to HTTPS (the awkward way initially because of my previous host).
And that email address is Jo@somewhereontheinternet?
10
I don’t know what that means Roy but I will accept your superior knowledge in the area of computing.
🙂
KK
00
Good morning KK,
I sometimes wonder if it’s a good thing to be working on my own projects late at night because I get tempted to have JoNova up in a tab and follow what’s happening.
First, understanding of how the internet works is abysmal in most users. I only know a fraction of what you think I do. And the thing is now more complicated than ever because internet, telephone and TV have very effectively merged. That isn’t well recognized yet but it will be. Look up smart TV and see what it offers.
Anyway, it is implicit in HTTPS that a site you visit has a site authentication certificate to present to your browser so your browser can examine it. Site certificates are impossible to forge so they are implicitly reliable. The probability of a successful forgery is indistinguishable from zero. But a site certificate is not free. To be valid it must be issued by a well known trusted certificate issuing authority or be derived from such a certificate. That’s where the reliable identification comes from because the site wanting a certificate must prove to the issuer that it is indeed who/what it says it is. The issuer charges for the certificate and it needs to be renewed yearly.
When I was working we made software update files available via internet and email. Every file had our certificate in it so no one could forge anything and foist it off on customers as genuine. Our certificate for file verification cost $499/year (then). Site certificates are considerably higher because more is a stake. Make no mistake, an issuing authority is in business to make money.
If Bemused is getting HTTPS at no increase in cost then his hosting service is embedding the cost of certificates in the cost of service and it isn’t visible. But it’s there.
My argument that Jo doesn’t need HTTPS is based on the fact that she lets anyone, even the devil himself, connect to her blog and read everything available without restriction. So why pay for HTTPS when you’re then going to give away what HTTPS would be protecting? If you post anything on JoNova the whole world can read it — period.
10
Of course the cost may be in the hosting fee, but most sites, like this one, do not require high level certification. But free certificates like Let’s Encrypt have been used for a long time and implementing it is not a major cost impost on a host. You can even install it yourself if your host allows you to do so. It’s no different than adding plugins to a self-managed WordPress site.
Just about every website on the planet, other than those behind a paywall, are visible to anyone. It’s the interception of information during transmission and then potential re-routing etc that is the issue. As an example, email addresses that posters want to keep private may not be private.
10
I’m just a guy who has been hanging around this blog for a long time and I happen to understand the security issue because it was my job to understand it. I don’t speak for Joanne Nova.
If you’re concerned AZ gave you a path to make your concern known to Jo.
Surely you can find her email address. homepage->About->Other information on Jo… and read. Or I can just give it to you.
[email protected]
Now, if you’e interested in the problem of someone spoofing joannenova.com.au reading all the traffic and then handing it off to the real joannenova.cm.au after reading everything, no security certificate will help nor will the use of HTTPS. For a very good, through explanation of the problem and the solution go to grc.com.
That’s the home of Gibson Research and he is the go-to guy for Internet security information. Read all of his security stuff starting down the page following his ad for Spin-rite. Just click “Shields Up and read it all. You might want to let him test your system for stealth while you’re there.
10
In future, if I spot land mines ahead, I’ll just STFU and assume that everyone else has spotted them as well. Rather that than get lectured to death about land mines. 🙂
10
🙂
00
Mark D,
You have to be odd to be Number 1.
60
Joe Bastardi says El Niño caused all the satellite warming, as have I.
Joe’s latest:
https://www.cfact.org/2019/10/24/more-super-el-ninos-not-so-fast-my-friend/
Joe’s picture of the El Niño step up in global temperatures, with nothing but pauses on either side:
https://www.weatherbell.com/images/imguploader/images/pause_step_up.png
My description of this big step up, from 22 months ago:
https://www.cfact.org/2018/01/02/no-co2-warming-for-the-last-40-years/
There is no CO2 warming in the entire 41 year satellite record. Just a step up warming due to the super El Niño 20 years ago. We may now have a second El Niño step warming but it is too soon to tell.
No CO2 warming at all!
190
Thank you David for stating what I have been saying for several years.
No warming from 1980-1997
No warming from 2001 – 2015
ONLY warming is from El Ninos.
El Ninos are absolutely NOTHING to do with atmospheric CO2.
261
Me too re years. No one will listen to us. Bastardi maybe. But AGW is too deeply entrenched to be moved by mere mortals.
180
Gentlemen, AGW is so deeply entrenched that it won’t even be moved by a thermonuclear bomb.
120
They will probably blame the next ice age on WARMING by human CO2 !!
150
What *will* happen though , and in some ways CAGW is a self limiting disease of the Left, in that as things cool and food etc starts to run out, those of us who were prepared will survive and many on the Left will die out.
In some ways it assures stupidity is naturally culled from the herd, as in nature, stupidity is punished by removal from the gene pool.
Sounds harsh, but it will work out that way…..
90
Correct. Whatever happens, carbon is the cause.
20
So they say, I want to know why they have not reported carbon pollution to the Environmental Protection Agency, polluting is illegal.
30
I thought that they already did..
00
That’s right no one will listen to the truth, not even our own PM. Really sad how things are going off the rails so slowly but surely. Only time will tell if a good leader comes forth and turns things around, assuming it’s not too late.
10
utter bilge, “While their frequency can be quite irregular, El Niño and La Niña events occur on average every 2—7 years. Typically, El Niño occurs more frequently than La Niña.”
So you are in effect saying that the only period we had el Ninos was for 4 years between 1997 and 2001
/made me laugh
015
“utter bilge, “
Great title for your comment PF !!
Mental incompetence and fantasy based non-com-prehension.,
You are displaying your gross ignorance, yet again
The effect of the 1998-2010 El Nino event is blatant, unless you close you eyes and mind completely.
130
Prof Weiss’ excellent Fourier analysis showed only two cycles in 2500 years, the De Vries cycle at 260 years and the PDO at 60 years.
So there is the La Nina and El Nino.
The two cycles are peaking together now, 2019 for a maximum. All the change is PDO and both are dropping from 2020 onwards. I do note the 5 year cycle in the graph but the entire explanation is the combination of the two cycles and without any input from CO2. CO2 increase is effect, not cause. With 1200x the heat capacity of the thin insulator above, the ocean is the holder of all heat. It controls air temperature, not the other way around. All storms are driven by the sun and the ocean.
170
BEWARE !!
If temperatures stabilise after 2020, and (as we suspect), atmospheric CO2 increase starts to slow down, ….
……then the alarmists will inevitably claim it is all due to the “actions” they have taken to reduce CO@ emissions …(no matter how trivial , and how convincing the science !)..
That will only encourage them to insist on further efforts with wind and solar, EV conversion, Vegetarian diets , etc etc.
Careful what you wish for
150
Don’t worry Chad, we’ll be able to show the wild weather in midlatitudes is due to global cooling.
60
Fact is, that the actions against CO2 emissions in western developed countries has almost cetainly had the effect of INCREASING global atmospheric CO2 emissions.
90
I still think someone needs ot take a non “homogenized” copy of temp data and store it somewhere safe and hidden.
Its the only way we can prove we were right.
The Left will silence as many as needed to maintain its power.
120
I bags the job of looking for old hard copy data from early farmers and graziers, they took pride in their work, and government archives.
50
Weiss ain’t a plural TdeF so you should be writing Weiss’s in future please although to your credit you have been consistent but finally I have cracked…
33
I object, your honour! (note lower case as I don’t fink you’re really a judge holding court).
How many “s“s do you want? If the word or the name ends with an ‘s’, the possessive apostrophe is simply added after that (already existing) s. As in, Chris’ excellent analysis, Debs’ excellent figure (where the cute figure belongs to a woman called Debs), and I’m calling TdeF correct with his “Prof Weiss’ excellent Fourier analysis”.
Grammar freaks, huh – we’re a loony bunch but not as loony as loony-tune End Of The World Is Nigh loonies.
120
I’m with Serp. For example.
It is a bit of a grey area. My rule for “s-ending possessives” is that if you pronounce it differently from the non-posessive, stick an s after the apostrophe. Weiss’s and James’s vs. Jesus’.
12
Yes, we can be guided by pronunciation.
The example you gave of “St. James’s” is a condensed version of St. Jameses which signifies that it’s the palace belonging to St J.
It may have been Queen Victoria who said there were too many “e”s and could take the possessive one out and replace it with an apostrophe.
But then again, there’s always the exception to Her rule.
KK
10
KK, there is no possessive “es” ending. That would be a plural (e.g.”How many St. Jameses do you think there have been?”).
As I was taught it, the possessive “‘s” is a contraction of “his” (shhh.. don’t tell the feminists). “St James, his Palace” contracted to “St James’s Palace”, but pronounced much the same if you don’t aspirate the “h”.
Serp is still right.
10
Thanks Robert, interesting.
00
Possessive though. Given his surname is Weiss why would you put’ in between an S
31
glen Mich’el
Not permitted.
40
The apostrophe, in this example, does not indicate the plural but rather the possessive, and is therefore correct. Its’ usage in this form has been bastardized by the American style dumbing down of the language. Right now I’m looking at a red line under bastardized, as it has a
zed, sorry, zee in it. It’s insidious and I hate it. I guess that means I’m old.00
However, it will come down to what is in vogue at the time. All the examples cited were probably correct at some time or other. Anyone who has tried to read a document written in Queen Victoria’s English will know what I mean. I guess that is why English i the Lingua Franca ( lol ) these days, as it is so malleable. I guess that “pedant” will be the next word to be removed from the Concise Oxford.
00
‘No CO2 warming at all!’ yes well that falsifies the hypothesis that CO2 warms the climate. And of course theres the paleo climate records even with errors that falsify it. Added to the null theory of any CO2 GHG effect.
40
For the geologists among us these two articles are interesting:
Re El Nino:
https://climatechangedispatch.com/further-proof-el-ninos-are-fueled-by-deep-sea-geological-heat-flow/
This one on Antarctica
https://principia-scientific.org/antarcticas-larsen-ice-shelf-melt-due-to-geology-not-humans/
50
Climate Change Dispatch has had some great articles on plate climatology over the last few years. It was they who pointed out that plate climatology was just gaining the traction it deserved, when Hansen came along and pulled his stunt in 1988 and launched global warming. A trace gas could be vilified and taxed and used as a vector for wider political change. It’s harder to control submarine volcanic vents.
As far as El Nino initiation is concerned, it is a no-brainer.
70
Thanks Ross,
Antarctica’s Larsen Ice Shelf Melt Due to Geology, not Humans. In fact a string of active volcanoes under the Larsen Ice Shelf is to blame!
https://principia-scientific.org/antarcticas-larsen-ice-shelf-melt-due-to-geology-not-humans/
Reading that took me back to something I read quite a while ago; Target Antarctica – a novel by Hammond Innes, published 1994.
Edwin Cruse, an ex RAF pilot with a reputation for risky flying, gets offered a Hercules transport aircraft in flying condition for just 10,000 pound, an unbelievably low price. The only problem is that the price is conditional on ‘as is where is”. The Hercules is perched on the edge of the Larsen Ice shelf and another bit has just broken off, taking most of the ice runway. The C130 Hercules has a reputation for short take off, but not that short (something like 300m). So the Hercules is a write off unless Edwin can fly it off. At least the edge of the ice is elevated so it is like taking off from an aircraft carrier.
Edwin meets some people who could make good use of the Hercules (if he makes off the ice) to recover some valuable treasure.
Edwin gets off the ice shelf but the Treasure is lost for a remarkable reason. A volcano under the ice erupts, just as he is about to land, and the treasure is lost forever.
The remarkable thing about the novel is that all these things about the Larsen Ice shelf were well known when Hammond Innes wrote his novel in 1994. I have read some of his other novels and they were very well researched. So the current researchers are not only correct, but they have rediscovered something that was well known before 1994, probably a long time before!
70
In moderation.
I think I know why. It is an unfortunate sensitivity, given the freedom generally granted to people who comment on this blog.
One gold star for the first to guess the reason for moderation (when the comment appears).
40
This has been realised for a while by geologists, very few if any geologists believe in the CAGW hypothesis. The deep ocean heat will probably turn out to be more responsible for ocean circulation as research uncovers it.
40
No surprise. Tony Heller has demonstrated the absence of warming and its dependence on a manipulated and adjusted record that is also cherry picked.
The UNEP/IPCC/UNFCCC scam that is unravelling across the World.
The latest from Chile:
Expensive Climate Policies Sparked the Chile Riots, Just Like the Yellow Vest Protests in France
140
A good read Latus Dextro. UNCOP take note.
40
In your (Latus Dextro) comment [ http://joannenova.com.au/2019/10/the-guardian-pledge-to-be-a-non-stop-propaganda-sheet-for-the-climate-industry/#comment-2207644 ] on Joanne’s thread “The Guardian pledge to be a non-stop propaganda sheet for the climate industry” you wrote: “It got me thinking and revisiting various posts as well as Roy Spencer comments on the infallibility of GHG back radiation, and of course the debate about cold objects warming hot objects, or in general, the increasing entropy of a system.”
On that thread I replied to your comment; but Joanne thought my reply was off topic for the Guardian Pledge thread; and as a result, deleted my reply. Joanne suggested I post my reply on an unthreaded thread. Okay, here is that reply:
Latus, let me suggest a starting point for your “revisiting” thermal radiation from a body. In 1912 Max Planck published a paper entitled the THEORY OF HEAT RADIATION. An English translation of that paper can be found at URL:
https://archive.org/stream/theoryofheatradi00planrich#page/n5/mode/2up.
On page 6 of Part I Planck wrote:
“7. The coefficient of emission [epsilon] depends, not only on the frequency [nu], but also on the condition of the emitting substance contained in the volume-element d[lambda], and, generally speaking, in a very complicated way, according to the physical and chemical processes which take place in the elements of time and volume in question. But the empirical law that the emission of any volume-element depends entirely on what takes place inside of this element holds true in all cases (Prevost’s principle). A body A at 100 degrees C. emits toward a body B at 0 degrees C. exactly the same amount of radiation as toward an equally large and similarly situated body B’ at 1000 degrees C. The fact that the body A is cooled by B and heated by B’ is due entirely to the fact that B is a weaker, B’ a stronger emitter than A.” [bold emphasis mine]
I interpret this to mean that (a) radiation flow (i.e., energy per unit time) between two objects (A and B) can be two-way and is independent of the temperature difference between A and B; but (b) heat flow between A and B is one-way and depends on the temperature difference between A and B. Specifically, if the temperature of B is greater than the temperature of A, the amount of radiation flow from B to A is greater than the amount of radiation flow from A to B. Similarly, if the temperature of A is greater than the temperature of B, the amount of radiation flow from A to B is greater than the amount of radiation flow from B to A. The difference in the amounts of radiation flow is the heat flow per unit time between the objects.
If we have three objects (A, B, and C) of equal volume where the temperature of A is greater than the temperature of B is greater than the temperature of C, doesn’t the above imply that object B will radiate more energy per unit time towards object A than object C radiates energy per unit time towards object A? If true, it isn’t surprising that a device (an FLIR camera) designed to measure the radiated energy from objects (the sky, a cloud) at temperatures both greater than or less than the FLIR camera temperature would show a different reading when pointed for equal lengths of time towards a cloud than when pointed towards the sky. I believe the FLIR camera senses and displays the different amounts of radiation from the sky and from a cloud. Whether or not the sky and/or the cloud are heating/cooling the FLIR camera (assuming no absorption of radiation by the media between the FLIR camera and the sky/cloud) is solely a function of the sky’s temperature and/or the cloud’s temperature relative to the temperature of the FLIR camera.
For two objects at different temperatures, one provision of the second law of thermodynamics is that “in the absence of work being done, heat can flow only from the higher temperature object to the lower temperature object.” That is, the second law of thermodynamics proscribes that in the absence of work being done, heat flow from a lower temperature object to a higher temperature object cannot take place. The second law of thermodynamics contains no such proscription for radiation. In fact, if Planck’s characterization of radiant heat is correct, for two objects at different temperatures radiation flows in both directions between the objects with the larger amount of “energy associated with that radiation” flowing from the higher temperature object to the lower temperature object.
20
On page 6 of Part I Planck wrote:
Yes to paragraph 2. Photons emitted from an object will arrive at another object regardless of temperature. Temperature is the measure of kinetic energy of the object. Yes the heat transfer is the thing, ‘heat’ and ‘energy’ are misused and often substituted for one an other wrongly, by climate science especially in the simplification of so called GHG and other effects.
10
you can also get these
https://sphereoptics.de/en/product/hyper-cam-2/
which will measure across all IR wavelengths including those emitted by atmospheric CO2 molecules. Tghe software will identify the likely source of the emission
10
Thank you Reed C for taking the trouble to republish your post and for assisting me in my quest.
10
My pleasure.
00
As with lawyers at the bottom of the sea wearing cement overshoes–the Chilean protests (and others-French, Dutch, English, Brazil) against this climate-change-nonsense are a good start.
50
Escape from model-land
Erica L. Thompson and Leonard A. Smith
http://www.economics-ejournal.org/economics/journalarticles/2019-40
50
I like these Jeff Foxworthy-ish statments that You may be living in model-land if you…
o try to optimise anything regarding the future;
o believe that decision-relevant probabilities can be extracted from models;
o believe that there are precise parameter values to be found;
o refuse to believe in anything that has not been seen in the model;
o think that learning more will reduce the uncertainty in a forecast;
o explicitly or implicitly set the Probability of a Big Surprise to zero; that there is nothing your model cannot simulate;
o want “one model to rule them all”;
o treat any failure, no matter how large, as a call for further extension to the existing modelling strategy.
130
Ric
May I “borrow” these points to post at donaitkin.com, where there are some commenters who live in model-land.
40
Boambee John: Those points come from the “Escape from model-land” article (sorry I wasn’t clear about that), so as long as you mention the source I see no problem with using the points.
20
Thanks Ric, posted and attributed.
20
What is not considered is that the model (any model) is not the thing modeled. If the model had all the features of the thing modeled, it would BE the thing modeled. Thus ALL models miss the mark in one or more minor and major ways. They will always fail to match the thing modeled with full fidelity.
This doesn’t mean a model, correctly considered, can’t be useful. Question: useful for whom and for what purpose?
One possible purpose is to understand the thing modeled better. Another possible purpose is to compare the model to the thing modeled to assist making the model come closer to the thing modeled.
However, the apparent purpose of current climate models is to pretend to understand the earth’s climate and use that pretense to inform public policy.
How do I know this? The models fail to predict future climate with even approximate fidelity. Even so, the politicians use the pretense to aggrandize government power, to justify tighter controls over the economy, and to cause vast increases in spending on things that cannot deliver as they promise. Then, when their “plan” fails, as it must, do more of the same only more so. All justified on the bases that the computer said so (aka 97% of the scientists say so).
PS: I know whereof I speak. I have been a computer software engineer for over 50 years. I have built many models used to assist component design, chemical composition, aircraft flight simulation, and synthetic x-ray image generation.
60
Added to #3.1…assume that the physics in the model is ‘correct’ and that large meshes can be simulated with no regard to non predictable solar events.
30
Like them climate models, no matter how beautiful… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Izq-E3o7Y
50
Instead of models, what do you propose? IT’s so easy to criticise. But you never propose a replacement.
020
It’s not a matter of replacing bunk. It’s a matter of dismissing it.
200
Correct.
Talking about nonsense only serves to promote it beyond where it should be.
120
Models are ubiquitous, you can’t dismiss one without dismissing them all. For example, economics would have to go as well. And where would you draw the line? Evolution is another model, which is now well accepted, but it wasn’t when first proposed. General and Special relativity are continually under assault.
It would be more honest to say – I don’t like what the models predict.
119
Again PF shows his utter non-comprehension of models and model validation.
Stop your mindless gibberish and LEARN something PF, you are coming across as a total drone. !!
The climate models are a load of BASELESS anti-science garbage..
Their range is so huge as to be FARCICAL
What they predict is MEANINGLESS. !!
151
I would venture that many modellists have no clue about real life parameters, so it is, as suspected- based on incorrect input. Models are invalidated continually. Too many models IMO done by useless, dopey bureaucrats.In Oz’s case Canberra.
71
Economic models will have to go as well?
Be still my beating heart.
130
Roadside litter is ubiquitous also, that doesnt make it good. Models only model the thinking and expectations of the modeler. What outcome would you like? I can make a LCOE make any energy source look better than others.
100
Well now do they? let’s set aside the remark about littering as it is nothing to to with modeling, and call the LCOE statement a draw.
If a model behaves as you say then it could be either a good or a bad model, time and testing will tell. For example there were 2 competing models in astrophysics, the Steady State, and Big Bang. One gained precedence, although it could still be wrong, it has a solid body of evidence behind it. That is the essence of science, you test the proposition, say the increase in CO2 in the atmosphere is due to volcanoes, and then you find the evidence to answer the question. If it can be answered unequivocally, thant is the best.
Now, in any experiment, you construct a model to describe what is happening. You then run the model in the Lab, or in the field and record the results.
If the answer is not within the bounds predicted by the model, you need to do two things. (1) make sure that the measurement was correct, ie did it measure the wrong variable, was the equipment calibrated, was there a cofactor involved (STP is a good example). and (2) Is the model itself at fault.
Everyone on this blog jumps to point 2 – but never offers an explanation, or an alternative.
Again. If the model fails, why? and what alternative is there?
Finally – take the atom as an example. Here is a case of a model which although now known not to be completely accurate still does the job, and is still taught in school. All models will tell the experimenter something, even if the model itself is imperfect.
118
Model with tell LIES if the modeller wants it to.
WORSE THAN USELESS.
A DANGER because of their WRONGNESS.
101
Peter Fitzroy.
You are confusing a model with a scientific theory.
121
Maybe the ANN is better than typical models. Marohasy and John Abbot were working towards long range weather forecasting.
https://jennifermarohasy.com/2017/08/recent-warming-natural/
40
Thanks Peter,
A Red Thumb!
40
Peter C- IT wasn’t me
Scientific theory is modeling – the hint is in the word ‘theroy’
17
“Scientific theory is modelling”
LOL.. Seriously PF,
You really are totally clueless about different types of models aren’t you
You have obviously never done any computer modelling
And you obviously have zero comprehension of the concept of VALIDATION.
So funny that you keep digging, digging, digging deep and highlighting your warped comprehension of basically everything.
81
Peter
All models are wrong but some are useful
For example I can model the Newtonian path of a projectile well enough to land it on the enemy, but the Newtonian model IS wrong! Newtonian models ignore the relativistic effects of a body in motion and is subject to numerical error due to computational methods.
And this is one of our best models based on physical laws, not curve fitting or statistics and its still known to be wrong. But it’s useful for dropping projectiles on stuff
Scalar Climate models have none of the precision of our best models they are not much more than an attempt to guess at the factors that might affect the fluid mechanics of our planet. I might point out that this attempt flies in the face of the fact that we can’t even calculate the fluid mechanics of a fluid in a pipe if there is any turbulent flow and planetary mechanics are all turbulent. Not to mention that some of the basic physics is wrong or misapplied. For example the application of feedback or failure to limit energy in the CO2 absorption band to what’s actually emitted.
So the question remains, given that climate models continually fail to accurately model outcomes, and in many cases deliver outcomes opposite to the data, are these models fit for use as a public policy tool. Answer is no, while the are a useful study tool they are clearly not predictive enough to justify the harm that the incorrect application of them to public policy is causing to real people. Like children terrified of the end of the world – that is not coming.
60
“are these models fit for use as a public policy tool”
ONLY if there is an underLYING agenda behind what the modellers are trying to get people to believe
71
Well, yes bobl. In regard to turbulence and the modeling thereof, some of the models have been used to help traffic flow, particularly in europe.
But to your main point. I would suggest that the latest series of models have (and within their acknowledged limitations) done rather well, particularly in the way they are approaching the scale issue.
Now to your point – failure, can you agree that the models are improving? Can you agree that their uncertainty is decreasing? can you agree that they are in broad agreement with the actual conditions measured either by ground stations and/or satellites. Can you show using the current crop of models any that are failing?
Your point about incorrect application is difficult to understand. These are climate models working with climate data, how does that translate to incorrect application.
014
Well that was a load of WAFFLE again, PF !!
You still haven’t understood that the models HAVE NOT done well.
In that link you keep regurgitating, they are basically admitting that previous models were GARBAGE.
…. and that the next huge batch of models might, perhaps, maybe, but probably not, be slightly less GARBAGE.
Why so many models PF
No way of saying which is anywhere near being correct.
All previous models have FAILED against reality,
And these are still built on the same quicksand.
Against reality, they are all basically USELESS…
.. therefore they are nothing more than self-glorified “computer games”
132
“Can you agree that their uncertainty is decreasing?”
No, they still have the same massive errors in-built.
Great that they keep adjusting the models to a new baseline every time they FAIL isn’t it PF 😉
Or are you so “unaware” that you didn’t realise that is all they are doing.
110
I would have to disagree that the Newtonian model is wrong. It is 99.999999% correct unless your projectile is travelling at a good fraction of the speed of light. Conservation of mass, momentum also work. Einstein’s world has nothing to do with normal kinematics. And Newtons world tell us nothing about electrons or nuclear physics. It’s a question of scale. We have very good models for both worlds.
In our normal human world Newton is exactly right from cars to trains to air travel. On a galactic scale, the universe is distorted by gravity, but not your house or your suburb or city. Normal relativety works really well until you travel at unimaginable speed or with unimaginable mass. Then you need to adjust everything. At a nuclear level there are a whole new set of forces, quantized energy levels and probability.
Einstein was wrong about the Heisenberg uncertainty principle but his pursuit of a single system which intergrated all the models from nuclear to human to galactic was not successful.
30
Fitz and his model fetish , models never predicted the sub prime crash so unless in economics .
Can’t model the climate so useless again.
Why model evolution ?
Is model another word for wild ass guess ?
50
Models have their place when you can simplify systems sufficiently. However so many models just leave out the oceans and the oceans cover 75% of the planet and have 1400x the heat capacity of the thin air and I believe are the only things to model. Even then we know so little about the dynamics of the oceans which drive our planet.
Everything is derived from the interaction of these two massive forces, but in detail the weather can be so random, coupled and chaotic that as we know from even daily weather, even short term prediction is fraught with risk. The idea that a long term climate view is any more predictable than a short term weather view is simply wild conjecture and given the failure of the simplistic models, a total failure in predicting just one thing, the temperature. Even that’s assuming it is predictable.
Professor Weiss takes the view that if you stand back far enough, the numbers form a pattern which coincides perfectly with two and only two known cycles. He did not guess this. It fell out of the analysis independently. That is a model which has come from the data itself that there are only two forces, the sun and the oceans. It’s a major breakthrough in modelling. However breaking that down to tomorrow’s weather or this year’s rainfall in Jindabyne or Addis Ababa is just rubbish.
50
The replacement is contained within my post: correct understanding. I also included a paragraph of the consequences of a grossly misused understanding of models.
Comprehension is as important as being able to read and type a response. Try it sometime. You might be surprised by the results.
120
Then show me your framework, and maybe show how it is superior to the current one.
For Example ‘correct understanding’ Its easy to denigrate, it’s hard to validate – so show me where the current model ensembles are wrong (CMIP6)
/It will never fly, Orville, the model is wrong
019
“so show me where the current model ensembles are wrong”
Show me where they are RIGHT !!!
141
I already did, the models assume that if you double the CO2 you double the trapped energy, IE that the energy available to be trapped by CO2 is effectively infinite. It’s not – the current model ensembles are wrong. Even doubling trapped energy is impossible because the energy is already 85% trapped.
110
bobl – can you send me a reference
i’ve seen this one
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/2016JD025320
and this one,
https://www.wcrp-climate.org/wgcm-cmip/wgcm-cmip6
but I do not see any reference to what you are stating
This is the best I could get
The forcing from CO2 is logarithmic at the concentrations we are discussing (~5.3 log(CO2/CO2_orig) ). That means that any doubling (from 1x pre-industrial to 2x pre-industrial, or 1x present to 2x present) gives roughly the same forcing. Specifically, 280 to 560 ppm, or 380 to 760ppm are equivalent.
So in essence the bit of the concentration gradient we are talking about will produce a 3 degree increase for a doubling of CO2, Only when CO2 becomes saturated will the response be different.
015
Poor PF, still stuck on this CO2 internal “forcing” fallacy. So funny
The atmospheric “forcing” from internal pressure and density gradients is magnitudes more than any weak, thin-frequency-band that might come from absorbed energy from a tiny amount of CO2 that collides magnitudes quicker than it re-emits.
“So in essence the bit of the concentration gradient we are talking about will produce a 3 degree increase for a doubling of CO2”
More parrot like regurgitation of anti-science gibberish from PF.
111
Even the logarithmic “forcing”(LOL) of CO2 is just a WAG.
(even if it did actually exist, its within the system, not from outside, and is immediately overwhelmed by pressure and density air movements)
Measured heat absorption LEVELS OFF at about 280ppm,
Hence beyond 280ppm there is no increase in any “forcing” anyway.
91
Andy’s is right Peter. A characteristic of a logarithmic response is that you reach a point where a proportional increase in the input parameter causes a very minimal increase in the output parameter.
60
Sometimes you need to do your own science Peter. Look up CO2 satellite spectrograms then look at the depth of the absorption notch. This shows that 85% of the energy emitted by the earth in the absorption band is absorbed by CO2. But you can’t double that, you can’t absorb 170% without violating energy conservation. You already agreed this last week. So the upper limit on warming is an increase of 15/85 after that there is no more energy left to trap.
The models however, they assume that each doubling of CO2 doubles the energy trapped, but how can that be… can you explain where that extra energy is gonna come from?
This is just first principles science, if you want to heat something then you need energy, if there is no energy left there is no heating.
Look at it this way, you have a 100 watt heat source, it shines on a porous black sheet 85% opaque such that 85 watts is intercepted, Now behind that I put another sheet exactly the same. Does the back sheet capture another 85 watts (models) or does it capture 85% of the 15 watts that made it through the first sheet.
You decide.
Regarding misapplied bode feedback, you need to read bodes reference book. Essentially the constraints for the use of bode feedback is that there needs to be an external energy source, an amplifying element (transistor or vacuum tube) the system needs to be linear and invariant (not contain hysteresis or time delays). For the climate none of these things are true and so bodes feedback equation can’t be used, yet they do.
You can’t trust a model where the constraints are misapplied, this is a problem from allowing environment graduates to guess at how to do physics with no training. Even if they got the right result it would be a coincidence because the physics is wrong, over unity and anti entropy is allowed in climate models.
It’s just like activists like yourself thinking that they should shove solar ant wind at this problem when a detailed engineering analysis proves that equivalent solar and wind installation emit more life cycle CO2 than coal power. Doesn’t solve the supposed problem even if there was one. It seems environmental activist want us all to be climate scientists before we can comment on the climate but anyone can specify the engineering solutions, and we certainly shouldn’t listen to engine weed (like me) for those engineering solutions. There is a certain hypocrisy there don’t you think?
70
Do your own work to comprehend what I wrote. It is not my responsibility to teach you how to think. That responsibility is 100% your own.
50
PF would rather use something PROVABLY UN-SKILLED. !!
Only useful for propaganda.
“what do you propose”
Understand what the IPCC has stated, that you CANNOT model the future of climate.
Stop the idiotic crystal ball gazing and work with REALITY as it comes
DO NOT waste billions of dollars because of the farcical un-validated predictions of incompetent models.
111
Still waging your individual war with Fitz, Andy ?
What’s the point ?
He is a troll and will never change his views.
Unlike on the real battle field
This dragon cannot be slain !
So you are locked in an endless
Verbal bickering
That waste’s your time & energy.
61
So we should let his gibberish and anti-information go uncorrected?
101
No just Red thumb him
and move onAndy !
If nobody takes hi bait
he will leave to find some other
Site to troll on.
61
Fitzroy,
Your analysis and response to this please.
73 UN climate models
Try not to weep.
80
Gosh, the old tropic hot spot again, and using the old models as well. What do I have to say? As I said previously and as the non-Andy and non-bill posters have attested, this is just now an input into the next round of modeling (which was 2 rounds ago). Why do you expect perfection? Particularly when even the model themselves admit to limitations?
If at first you don’t succeed…
013
Models are un-proven, un-validated junk-science
They have predicted things that just have not happened.
The next round of “computer games” will be just as bad because they still maintain all the built-in fallacies and errors from the FAILED previous models.
81
It doesn’t matter how new they are if the physics is wrong the models ARE wrong, even if they’ve a better answer because that answer is a coincidence. There is a simple problem that the models allow parts of the climate system to be over unity (break the law of conservation of energy) and allow energy and entropy to flow backwards.
Constraints must be applied so that NO part of the climate can be over unity on energy, energy can’t net flow from cold to hot EVER ANYWHERE and that energy can’t spontaneously accumulate (anti entropy).
These models are scalar, they are statistical, they do not model energy at all, just temperature, so there are no constraints on energy supply anywhere. The bode constraints are ignored, there is no amplifying element , no external energy source (internal yes, external no) the climate is non linear, and variant, has both hysteresis and time delays in feedback elements. It cannot be modelled in a scalar model, you could not model even an amplifier using a scalar model with this sort of feedback k in place, you’d need an AC (complex number) model that can deal with the time dimension and you’d need to detail every feedback in existence (for the whole planet)
Modelling the earth’s climate is impossible.
70
‘Instead of models, what do you propose?’ analysis of ACTUAL data.
10
You make the childish case against models, but refuse to provide
(a) an alternative
(b) evidence
This is little better than having a boo hoo moment.
If you want to be taken seriously, instead of repeating endless mantras stolen from entertainment websites, come up with something both credible and verifiable.
/the model of the atom is wrong, why? because it is a model
019
Yawn. STOP your idiotic trolling PF !!
Climate models are NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE..
Unless their purpose is climate propaganda.
/PF is clueless about models and validation
Speaking of evidence
Do you have ANY EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE that increased atmospheric CO2 causes warming?
We all know the answer to that question, don’t we PF 😉
120
It is noticed that PF yet again avoids questions
1. Do you have ANY EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE that increased atmospheric CO2 causes warming?
2. In what way has the global climate changed in the last 40 years that can be scientifically linked to human release of CO2.
In the absence of actual real evidence, we can all assume that NEITHER HAPPENS
Thanks PF for showing everyone that there is NO EVIDENCE 🙂
Its all just a FANTASY/FARCE, isn’t it, PF ! 🙂
60
“If you want to be taken seriously”
NOBODY takes you seriously, PF
“come up with something both credible and verifiable.”
Says PF flatting his hands in the air. !
You have produced neither, PF..
That is why you are treated as a JOKE !!
… with a total lack of any credibility
80
(a) The alternative is to accept that any warming that we can detect is smaller than the error in the measurement, therefore the Global Warming theory has failed to show significance as compared with the null hypothesis. This does not prove zero warming, because the error in measurement is at least 1 deg C probably more like 2 deg C. This of course also requires absolutely no data tampering, no adjustments, no tweaks, no fiddles, no offsets.
(b) The evidence can be found from the scientists themselves … real scientists do not adjust data, and everything, absolutely everything is documented and presented for open public review. The many times that our current batch of warmists have been caught adjusting data demonstrates that they could not find what they were looking for in the raw data.
Models that have been tuned to follow adjusted data, are only as good as the quality of the data to begin with. My model is simple: the temperature is stable. There you go, by Occam’s Razor unless the non-stable temperature model can be more accurate, then my model wins by simplicity. Sure, my model is wrong, but all models are wrong. Mine is at least as accurate as any warmist model and mine is easier to work with.
120
Tel,
doo you have a reference to this measurement uncertainty?
for example, here are 2 data sets compared for Australia
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/04/04/australia-surface-temperatures-compared-to-uah-satellite-data-over-the-last-40-years/
Clearly this shows a degree of precison which is better than your 1 degree statement. Please only consider the temps as that is the question in point (a)
(b) adjusting data. you should consider how the models work. Some adjustment is required.
Finally the non-sequitur of your last paragraph. Can you tell me by opening you front door, and stepping outside what the temperature is? (without access to any form of thermometer) . Can you do the same thing tomorrow, in a year, 10 years etc etc. Can you do it to the same precision as the BOM?
012
So You now agree that there has been no warming in Australia in 20 years
And basically no warming before the El Nino either
Is that what you are saying PF ?
Because that is what UAH says.
” you should consider how the models work. Some adjustment is required.”
Yes, MANY adjustments are needed to give the required warming trend.
91
“Can you do it to the same precision as the BOM?”
BOM has basically ZERO precision or accuracy.
25% or so of their sites are UNFIT FOR PURPOSE
And massive adjustments are required to give them the results they want.
71
100% correct Andy. Currently reading the BOM paper “Updating Australia’s high-quality annual temperature dataset”, where in the synopsis, they admit to padding out data-sparse regions by adding shorter duration records. And they have the temerity to call the resultant dataset a high-quality one.
51
Andy, that 25% unfit for purpose is only the ones uncovered so far. It is highly likely to be higher when all are checked.
20
Take your own advice. Until then you are nothing but a joke and a bad one at that!
80
So – instead of providing a reasonable response, you go on the personal attack. Very intelligent of you.
112
PF, please give a reasonable response to these questions
1. Where is the empirical evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2
2. In what way has the global climate changed in the last 40 years that can be scientifically linked to human release of CO2
You have NOTHING but trolling .
You are a total JOKE.
101
“repeating endless mantras stolen from entertainment/propaganda websites”
That is all PF is capable of.
/PF – NEVER any real science.
81
We know the models are wrong, a serious case of junk in junk out. New models are required, which leave out CO2 (it doesn’t cause warming) and get a grip on H2O because its poorly understood.
https://curryja.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/christy_dec8.jpg
The gap between observation and theory grows wider by the day.
61
The Physical Impossibility of Renewable Energy Meeting the Paris Accord Goals
BY IER
AUGUST 22, 2019
https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/the-physical-impossibility-of-renewable-energy-meeting-the-paris-accord-goals/
220
Will be interesting to see how the believers try to refute this logic, or will they simply ignore?
Is there any journalist willing to question our governments on the futility of their “ruinable” policies?
90
They have been ignoring it for years. They even ignore the ecological damage caused by using landfill to dispose of old units – turbine blades and solar panels, since there is no economical way of disposing of them.
80
Oh that’s easy. Just produce some useful cretin who screeches, “how dare you!” and the World MSM fawn and fold.
10
Not only is it physically impossible, but a grid based on (un) renewables can never power an electric fleet if every car and truck is electric (non hybrid). Even a mixed grid cant supply enough power.
90
What I can’t see in all this is that if the minimum power consumption already comes in at a daily average of 18000MW, they’re going to be adding to this with all those EV’s charging overnight, and it’s not like off peak hot water. (which is only around 10% of that 18000MW, but only for around an hour and a half)
Now while there is that 18000MW minimum, a little more than 80% of that comes from coal fired power. Those EV’s will require a constant reliable and regular power, and those intermittent renewables of choice, wind and solar (well zero solar overnight anyway) by their very nature cannot deliver that.
Take away coal fired power and what have you got?
Well, nothing in fact.
I know that 18000MW is the overall total for all that vast AEMO coverage area, but here’s the breakdown by State, and this is the daily minimum at around 4AM every morning of the year:
New South Wales – 6450MW (Coal Fired Power – 5250MW)
Queensland – 5150MW (Coal Fired Power – 5520MW)
Victoria – 4150MW (Coal Fired Power – 3830MW)
South Australia – 1150MW
Tasmania – 1100MW
Total – 18000MW (coal fired power – 14600MW)
Until those who propose all this EV fairy tale realise this, then it will keep gaining traction.
Tony.
190
Tony,
That’s the point isn’t it?
De-industrialisation, de-population, destitution and despair.
Of course there is no intention to have everyone owning an EV. As you highlight, it’s impossible. There simply isn’t sufficient child slave labour in the Congo to garner the required cobalt ore for those absurd batteries that comprise a monstrous 30% of the weight of the vehicle.
It will become a privilege for the unelected, administrative elite.
UN Urban Agenda Habitat makes this rather clear.
The rest of us will be walking or riding bicycles.
100
Ric
That article should be compulsory homework reading for all school kids (esp. those that went on the climate strike) and all MPs. No matter what side of the AGW issue one is on the “energy reality” needs to be understood.
80
We badly need to get away from the idea that there are ‘sides’.
There is NO scientific empirical merit whatsoever in anthropogenic CO2 attribution. The empirical evidence thoroughly discredits the idiotic distraction.
There is only ideology and the Trojan horse of neo-Marxist corporatist globalism.
Therefore, there is only the rational and the insane.
The recent cavorting lunatics of the XR demonstrate that point unequivocally, as indeed does the vapid pathos of the neo-Marxist eco-globalist manipulated autistic doll, that “How dare you” hybrid, a revolting cross between Damien of the Omen and the Children of the Corn.
71
‘We badly need to get away from the idea that there are ‘sides’.’
True, but by having ‘sides’ the believers can have straw men to say theres an ‘argument’ and they are on the ‘right’ side. You cant win with these people.
30
If Solar Panels Are So Clean, Why Do They Produce So Much Toxic Waste?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23/if-solar-panels-are-so-clean-why-do-they-produce-so-much-toxic-waste/#73319c9121cc
120
then after that https://balance10.blogspot.com/2019/10/cristina-kirchners-dark-clique-exposed.html
50
after that https://balance10.blogspot.com/2019/10/cristina-kirchners-dark-clique-exposed.html
20
Universities Breed Anger, Ignorance, and Ingratitude
By VICTOR DAVIS HANSON
October 22, 2019 6:30 AM
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/universities-breed-anger-ignorance-ingratitude/
60
Well worth the read.
Way back in about 1966 I heard of a fellow here in Australia who had not qualified for university entry but went to America on an athletic scholarship.
He came back two years later having “graduated” with a Masters Degree.
At the time it would have taken from 5 to 5 1/2 years to get a “Masters” Degree here.
Needless to say degrees from USA at the time were not rated highly, which is a shame because there were obviously many outstanding institutions there.
But time is the great leveler and politicians have brought our education system up to match that of the USA in terms of inclusiveness and cost, and everyone is now equal and knows where to place their vote: with the highest bidder.
KK
70
Remember that joke about “kawphy”?
10
Haven’t heard it.
?
30
Story was that the coach offered a football player a pass in English if he got one letter right when spelling “coffee”. That was the result.
One version of Wordstar used it as proof their spelling checker worked
60
Wordstar! awww stop it , you are making me all misty eyed
30
And then there were others such as Ami Pro…
10
I forgot Multimate. Far better than Wordstar.
10
CPM was multi-user multi thread when Microsoft/IBM came out with DOS which was neither and struggles with both to this day.
I used a version of dbaseII (Ashton Tate)that did both back before that IBM launch
Go SuperCalc.
20
Speaking of misty eyed, Slithers has activated mine. In about 1976 I used Multiplan on a DEC Rainbow PC running CPM. Both the desk sized computer and Multiplan were trivial in power and features compared to now.
00
Was it Phillip Adams who paid for a Doctor of Divinity degree and was offered a chance to be a “qualified” Brain Surgeon?
Or am I thinking of someone else?
30
In the USA their basic medical degree is an M.D. Doctor of Medicine. Here it is a post graduate degree. Here the basic medical degree is MBBS. Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery.
Their rank of Sergeant is equivalent to our Lance Corporal. They do have Lance Corporals so goodness knows what their role would be.
30
Shaman, or perhaps Witch Doctor.
20
I understand the minimum IQ requirement for the US military is around 85. In any fiscal year those in possession of such intellect cannot amount to more than 20% of the enlistment (10 USC §520)
10
Well worth the read.
Way back in about 1966 I heard of a fellow here in Australia who had not qualified for university entry but went to America on an athletic scholarship.
He came back two years later having “graduated” with a Masters Degree.
At the time it would have taken from 5 to 5 1/2 years to get a “Masters” Degree here.
Needless to say degrees from USA at the time were not rated highly, which is a shame because there were obviously many outstanding institutions there.
But time is the great leveler and politicians have brought our education system up to match that of the USA in terms of inclusiveness and cost, and everyone is now equal and knows where to place their vote: with the highest bidder.
KK
40
It has always taken 5 or more years to get a Masters here in the U.S., because first you have to get the four year degree. In fact I got mine around 1966. Someone was lying, or maybe it was a mail order degree.
I like to think that our universities are, and have been, just as good as yours.
80
Remember “the curate’s egg”?
20
Hi David,
I think I acknowledged that there was another layer of university life there.
The point is that way back then there were unprincipled academic institutions that were not doing the right thing.
That’s now the case here.
KK
50
A Master’s degree in either country is a postgraduate degree following a 3 year Bachelor’s degree or a 4 year Bachelor with Honours degree but the subject has to be different for the Masters. PhD can follow either post graduate degree. A 2 year Master’s degree is a rubbish idea in any country. What was the undergraduate degree?
20
Climbing Ayers Rock has now been banned for no good reason whatsoever.
You can count on the Left to rewrite or erase history, just like in “1984”.
QUOTE
After the last of the climbers comes down, workers will immediately start removing all evidence climbing was ever allowed on the 348-metre high red sandstone rock.
The chain handhold built in 1964 and later extended, enabling visitors to get up and down the sheer western face of what used to be known as Ayers Rock, will also be removed.
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/indigenous-australians/all-evidence-of-uluru-climb-to-be-removed-as-walker-ban-comes-into-play-ng-b881363086z
121
This action is supported by the concept that it is restoring something of deep cultural significance to all those who might be associated with an “original presence”.
Why is it I get the feeling that, once again, politicians are looking past more important issues to get a quick, feel good headline.
I can hear that old hit song “In The Ghetto” playing as I write this, Elvis?
The ideas outlined in the Katharine Birbalsingh comment recently would be more valuable to those of past original presence than meaningless virtue signalling.
Past presence should indeed be recognised, recorded in history and acknowledged, but it should be done in proper context with dignity and without the involvement of shoddy politics.
KK
90
A reminder of pre-woke world,
http://joannenova.com.au/2019/10/seattle-school-says-maths-is-racist-used-to-oppress-people-of-color/#comment-2210540
50
I once recall seeing a “map” of significant ( occult ) ley lines throughout Australia.
Ayers Rock if I recall was a significant point/node in the ley line grid.
Canberra is one another apparently.
South Australia is a “drain” of occult energy, hence possibly why many awful things seem to happen there.
The Elite are occultists, so this may explain why they are now moving ( along with their occult pagan “gaia” protection ) are doig what they are doing.
They seem to be moving things up a level of activity.
70
Let’s just recognize that they allow their thoughts to be governed by superstitions.
And as they are “leaders”; they insist that the lives of others be governed by those same superstitions.
100
The problem is that the roots of Na*ism is found in the occult.
And the greenists appear to be following a form of Na*ism.
Ergo…..
20
I always thought it was following the rest of the sheep. A mindless preoccupation to do what others do. Find your own rock to climb I say and keep quiet about it.
13
Petulant dopes exercising a trivial power gifted to them by the wider society they insist on being alienated from; if it mattered the ban would very soon be overturned as was the Hindmarsh Island bridge secret woman’s business of years ago.
70
Give them what they want. Stay well clear of any Indigenous owned or operated land/space/event/organisation. We, as the emodiment of evil should just stay away. In fact we should be banned. Simpler for everyone.
21
In NZ the local Maoris made fortunes taking international tourists to the famous Pink and White Terraces in the 1880s, until nature finished them off in 1886!
20
They’re B-A-C-K ! ! !
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160427-a-natural-wonder-lost-to-a-volcano-has-been-rediscovered
In 2011, “GNS Science led a series of expeditions to map and study the floor of Lake Rotomahana… Jutting above the lake floor, the team saw what appeared to be a long, thin rocky outcrop, stretching for a horizontal distance of around 197ft (60m)”.
In 2014, they returned with underwater cameras to verify their data. “This photographic evidence, coupled with the fitting location of the rocks on the lake floor, was enough to confirm it: de Ronde and his colleagues were looking at a section of the Pink Terraces… the team re-deployed the aquatic camera approximately 0.6 miles (1km) to the north-east…
“In the location where the White Terraces had stood before the 1886 eruption, the camera showed a large lump of pale rock. If anything, this second outcrop looked even more terrace-like than the first. The whitish rock seemed to have the same vertical, columnar texture that is apparent in pre-eruption photographs of the White Terraces“.
The BBC article is long-winded, though it does have some great pics, illustrations & sonar scans. There is a link to a Journal of Volcanology and Geothermal Research which, apparently, has more info/data yet it won’t open for me.
10
David M,
Didn’t you just love the Welcome to Country be the Celts at the opening of the first RWC semi-final?
And the Celts also proudly displayed the Celt flag.
The Celts are also considering forcing tourists to close their eyes when they visit Stonehenge.
30
Its doubtful whether the Celts built Stonehenge at all. Its wasnt the big stones that was used, it was the first outer ring of 56 stones that was used to predict the lunar and possibly solar eclipses and other events. Some bright generation 4000 years ago figured out the procession of the nodes.
10
The site of the first very popular landing site on the Derwent river in Hobart was given to the ab*rigines on demand. It is derelict now surronded by cyclone fencing. Everyone lost. Perhaps the people who built modern Australia should be allowed their sacred sites too and their names and achievements and I am really annoyed that we get lectured on (compulsory) Ab*riginal mathematics and Ab*riginal meteorology.
40
TdeF, don’t forget their “astronomy” and “advanced farming techniques”. The BS is never ending, especially on Their ABC.
11
I came across an article the other day in which it was reported that Qatar is so hot (and humid–didn’t realise that) that aircon is being installed not only in World Cup stadiums but also in other outdoor spots like markets. And, of course, it’s all generated by fossil fuel, so contributes more to the climate change that has made Qatar so hot in the first place. Is Qatar any hotter than it was? Is it, perhaps, that it hopes to attract more tourists from cooler climes and would like them to be a bit more comfortable? Is it that the Qataris are simply sick of being hot and glad to have the technology to do something about it? All of the above, perhaps?
120
You know Dubai is a hot spot when even the bus shelters are air-conditioned.
110
Lee Kuan Yew attributed Singapore’s prosperity to air-conditioning having made it possible to sit indoors and think.
80
NZ farmers push back against zero carbon (sic) bill …
“NZIER estimate the cost of Zero Carbon 2050 at $85b per year, about 28% of current GDP.
This is economic suicide over New Zealand producing 1/588th of global man made greenhouse gases.
It will be worse if the primary sector is ruined.”
Climate Chains: Follow The Science, Not Emotion, Says NZ Farmer
https://investigatemagazine.co.nz/27520/climate-chains-follow-the-science-not-emotion-says-nz-farmer/
History:
‘Frustratingly cruel’: Farmer fury grows over Government’s climate change plans
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2019/05/frustratingly-cruel-farmer-fury-grows-over-government-s-climate-change-plans.html
“Condemnation of the Government’s plans to address [global warming] is growing within the rural sector with claims stock would have to be culled to reach the proposed targets.”
New Zealand introduces ‘zero carbon’ bill with concession to farmers
https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/05/08/new-zealand-introduces-zero-carbon-bill-concession-farmers/
>> Dutch farmers are revolting over climate zombie rules …
Angry Dutch Farmers Swarm The Hague Third Time To Protest Green Rules
https://climatechangedispatch.com/dutch-tractors-hague-protest/
>> Sadly in Australia, the National Farmers Federation has been infected with climate zombies …
“The NFF’s 5 May 2017 submission conveyed that NFF’s recognises that [UN global warming] poses a significant challenge for Australian Farmers.”
https://www.nff.org.au/submissions-search.html?subcategoryid=3650
110
‘New Zealand introduces ‘zero carbon’ bill with concession to farmers’ zero carbon? PROVE IT! Jacindabell!!!
Im sick of that labour party there full of trendy nutcases.
Trouble is that they want to destroy the NZ agricultural economy over 1 molecule in about 1000000000!
Insanity rules!
80
Its interesting, but its hard not to wonder if we are coincidentally seeing a reboot of a “Jezebel spirit”, similar to that which flourished under King Ahab and Queen Jezebel in ancient Israel.
Under thier rule, Israel abandoned God and pursued pagan gods, notably Baal, and Baal being publically humilated in a competition with Gods prophet, Elijah.
You see this in 2 Kings 9, 1 Kings 16:31-32
The elevating of the environment over people, is a marker of pagansim.
If people are now crying out saying they are being oppressed through these rules, are we in effect seeing elevation of a greenist pagan god over NZ without it being explicitly stated?
I have good Christian friends who live in NZ, who opely are concerned over the blatant practices of many forms of modern w*tchcraft in thier cities.
Or put bluntly – is the green movement establishing green paganism as the new State religion?
10
Australia’s Alps turn white after late-October snow storm covers the hills
(page has pics/links to snow-dusted Mt Buller, Perisher, Thredbo and Charlotte Pass):
https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Mount-Hotham/webcams/latest
Closing Day for Turoa on the south-side of Mt Ruapehu (3.25 m snow base, primo bluebird day, check out the ice-cream cake webcam pics, bliss!) while Whakapapa on the north-west slopes is keeping its chairlifts running every weekend through the month of November:
https://www.metservice.com/skifields/turoa
The End Of Snow? Ha!
110
https://electroverse.net/rare-october-snowstorm-buries-the-texas-panhandle/
October 25: “Preliminary National Weather Service reports show that 4+ inches of snow fell in the initial flurry, with some of the largest drifts at the NWS Amarillo office ranging between 10 and 12 inches.
“Although this powder wasn’t quite the earliest on record, the inches involved certainly make it remarkable. The Panhandle continued receiving heavy snow throughout Thursday evening, with totals touching a record-breaking 10 inches in some spots”.
More on the way for Halloween Weekend Whiteout. Now we know who really has their heads in the sand – or should that be snow?
80
A-Basin on Colorado’s Continental Divide: first to open, one of the last to close – snow beautiful snow –
http://www.keno.org/colorado_web_cams/arapahoe_basin_cams.htm
Observed/recorded snowfall worldwide over the past 7 days: half the planet is freezing, buried under early season snow, while the equatorial bits in the middle are as lovely and warm as ever. So where’s all this ‘change’ these climate zombies keep yelling/shrieking/chanting about? Surely they’re not dёпӱїng reality…
https://www.snow-forecast.com/maps/dynamic/globalrot?over=none&symbols=snow&type=snow.last7days
70
Interglacial brings to mind a period of warm and balmy conditions across the globe while glaciation brings to mind cold and low solar input. However considering glaciation from an energy perspective provides a somewhat different view.
During glaciation, the sea level falls up to 120m. During the times of rapid glaciation, the sea can drop at a rate of 50m in 10,000 years. That equates to a fall of 5mm/yr. That water needs to be evaporated from the oceans then deposits as ice on land. The energy of ice deposition from water vapour is 2590kJ/kg. Every sq.m of ocean, requires excess energy of 1.29MJ each year to enable the ice to be deposited on land. It may not be intuitive, but making ice mountains from sea water is an energy intensive process.
Given that the Southern Hemisphere is 80% water while the Northern Hemisphere is only 60% water and the Northern Hemisphere has twice as much land as the Southern Hemisphere, glaciation requires a significant transfer of energy from the Southern Hemisphere to the Northern Hemisphere. Considering the distribution of water, it means the oceans in the Southern Hemisphere require an extra 2W/sq.m for 6 months of the year to evaporate water that gets deposited as ice in the northern hemisphere.
This energy transfer gives insight into why orbital eccentricity is the cause of glaciation.
From 2001 to 2100, the globe will be 16700km further from the sun during the austral summer and 7000km closer during the boreal summer; the orbital eccentricity is still reducing and will continue to reduce for the next 10,000 years or so:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/MilankovitchCyclesOrbitandCores.png
Under these conditions, the difference in energy input between the Northern and Southern Hemispheres over an annual cycle are getting reducing. We should expect to observe ongoing retreat of land ice in the Northern Hemisphere. In 10.000 years or so the next glacial period will begin. For now, enjoy the interglacial.
I wonder how many climate models incorporate orbital eccentricity? It is the most powerful and predictable driver of global climate change.
100
Should have also plotted the solar SSB angular momentum curve. http://landscheidt.info/
These things need a driving force, climate changes dont drive themselves. The solar system is complex, with interactions of orbits, gravity, mass ejections. There is ONLY solar energy in all forms, (poorly estimated effect of internal earths heat), correolis force, that can drive the climate. Thats it!
To note 7000 km is only about 1 earth radius.
‘I wonder how many climate models incorporate orbital eccentricity?’ None, they arent interested, it would upset their theory.
70
Correction:
Should read “excess energy of 12.9MJ”
Another interesting factor with regard to energy is that melting ice is far less energy intensive than depositing ice. Melting requires 1/7th the energy of evaporation. So returning the water to the oceans as run-off would be expected to be more rapid than glaciation once the Northern to Southern Hemisphere insolation difference gets closer together. Hence it is not surprising that during the melt phase the sea level can rise at 25mm/yr.
Yet another factor that I hope to get into more detail next time is the current annual variation in atmospheric water column. It swings annually from an average of 21mm to 26mm. That equates to an annual variation in sea surface level of almost 10mm. This highlights the significance of the distribution of water across the globe and the variation in insolation from orbital eccentricity to global climate.
50
‘In 10.000 years or so the next glacial period will begin.’
I disagree, the Holocene has come to an end, the approaching mini ice age is the door to full glaciation. Desertification at the end of the Eemian gives us a better timeline as the event unfolds.
20
It depends on definitions. The descent toward the next glaciation is due medium term. But do you call any conditions below those of the last 11,700 years “glaciation”?
I reckon the best way of putting it is: You get to spend 20% of your present geo period at temps around what they are now. 80% will be at temps below. Nomadic peoples have tried it; settled civilisations, which have found it hard just to endure the little ups and downs of the Holocene, have not tried it, as far as we can prove.
The next glacial max may come round in fifty to seventy thousand years, so that leaves plenty of time for St George to win another premiership. Of course, we may have other things on our mind.
50
Okay, full glaciation in 70,000 years.
At the LGM 18,000 years bp, could we have drifted into snowball earth?
10
el gordo asked:
No. Snowball earth is a low energy state. Glaciation is the result of hemispherical thermal imbalance and the dominance of water in the Southern Hemisphere. The excess evaporation in the Southern Hemisphere, due to high solar input during the austral summer, results in energy being transferred to the Northern Hemisphere where it gets deposited as ice. Then there is not enough energy input during the boreal summer to melt that ice so it accumulates.
Snowball earth requires the formation of sea ice in low latitudes so it reduces solar input to the sub-tropical oceans. Sea ice has to extend lower than 37 degrees to cause a net cooling. At higher latitudes its insulating characteristics result in net ocean heating compared with no ice. Reduction in sea ice increases net heat loss; sea ice insulation trumps sea ice albedo at latitudes higher than 37 degrees.
50
Thanks for that information.
The Younger Dryas doesn’t show up clearly in the Southern Hemisphere and only Taylor Dome Antarctic ice core has the signal. So it was most likely an asteroid impact, do you agree?
Going back to the LGM and Meltwater Pulse 1A it appears that a huge volcanic eruption on Antarctica brought glacial conditions to an end. Is that too simplistic?
30
I do not understand the interactions caused by orbital eccentricity sufficiently to make a meaningful comment on the Younger Dryas episode. It appears the interglacials occur when the eccentricity goes through a peak. About 15ky ago there was a minimum and minimums usually align with the end of glaciation and switch to rapid warming.
In the present era we are heading for the lowest orbital eccentricity in 400ky but from a low peak. That means the energy imbalance between the hemispheres will be lower than it has been at any time in that period. Other minimums have aligned with glacial periods but they followed much higher imbalances.
There are very interesting cyclic energy imbalances between the hemispheres at the present time with the relatively small orbital eccentricity. This is mostly related to axis tilt and the large difference in ocean energy uptake during the austral and boreal summers because of the predominance of water in the Southern Hemisphere.
Each year global energy accumulates during the austral summer but falls by almost the same amount during the boreal summer. A considerable proportion of the excess energy during the austral summer goes into evaporating water that precipitates or deposits during the following austral winter.
Notably, all that extra water vapour does nothing to reduce OLR. However as the austral winter occurs the atmospheric reflectivity increases and that reduces surface insolation; clouds increase as the Southern Hemisphere cools. The maximum global sea surface temperature is in August and that coincides with the maximum OLR. This means clouds play an important role in the phase shifting of the peak sea surface temperature relative to the net energy annual gain, which is zero by June.
Point is there are significant climate drivers solely related to axis tilt and water distribution without considering the added complexity of eccentricity. It could be that the yearly CHANGE in eccentricity, whether increasing, decreasing or constant, is more significant than the actual eccentricity. Global temperature appears to rise when the change in eccentricity levels out at a peak rather then when it is at a minimum. I am still trying to understand these interactions and aim to work through CERES data over a yearly cycle to get a handle on the phase shift between energy input and maximum sea surface temperature. Clouds are an important factor in the phase shift.
50
All great questions, stuff we ought to be thinking about. The period from Gobekli Tepe till Neom (Saudi creepopolis) has been so even climatically (though it doesn’t feel that way to us) that we have lost all idea of what real climate change is: the plunge back into near-glaciation after warming, the emergence from the YD to full Holocene in no time at all…and all of it so recent. And while one might punt on no bolide hits or Toba-scale eruptions in the near future, the chances of no crippling geological events are slender.
Even a few hundred years of LIA (far from unlikely) won’t be a walk in the park, when you consider the dependence on northern agricultural zones and southern hemisphere rainfall.
Pity we can talk about carbon credits for wigwams on geese’s bridles but talking about the big stuff to do with CC is like breaking wind in church. Yeah, it really is a pity.
50
There was a sharp drop in sea level around 1300 AD, would either of you like to hazard a guess at the exact cause?
20
This is Patrick Nunn at the Conversation.
‘Around AD 1300 there was rapid global cooling, which was followed shortly by rapid sea-level fall – perhaps as much as 50-70 cm within 100 years in the Pacific. The effects on coastal societies in the Pacific region were profound.’
20
I can’t hazard a guess, but from history we know that a climate shift came at that time, and that the 14th century is one to miss if you have a time machine.
Climate dogmatists seem to like the “volcano ate my homework” theory, though some still push weird ideas on sudden reforestation caused by the Black Death (which came much later, but climate science likes Hollywood swashbuckler history, so what the hey!).
Going back a few millennia, what I wonder about are those very late extinctions of megafauna. Because the “science” of the extinctions is still only marginally political the researchers tend to be pretty humble and open on causes. Their guesses are better than any of mine.
I really miss the mammoth.
20
Megafauna extinction is still debated, human induced or asteroid impact. Australia wasn’t effected by the Younger Dryas so the blame lies elsewhere.
The Wolf Minimum happened around 1300 AD, but I have no idea how sea level fell abruptly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spörer_Minimum#/media/File:Carbon14_with_activity_labels.svg
00
I doubt if earth will experience glaciation in the next eccentricity cycle peak because it is a very low peak. I expect that the next glaciation is more than 100kyr away.
30
ABC likes the pommie low carbon direction and thus this story seems like an ad for renewables .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-27/britains-coal-free-future-as-old-power-plants-close/11635548
70
That article is disgraceful and completely ignores Once Great Britain’s undersea electricity lifelines to Europe comprising:
BritNed 1,000MW between UK and Netherlands
HVDC Cross-Channel, 2,000 MW between UK and France
Nemo Link, 1,000 MW between UK and Belgium
HVDC Norway–UK, 1,400 MW between UK and Norway
These are the only way they keep the lights on, nuclear electricity from France and hydro from Scandinavia.
150
Winter is coming
30
The climate models taught in universities around the world start by averaging sunlight over the whole surface of the planet. As far as that goes it is fine and mathematically correct. However the model then calculates from this average insolation that, in the absence of so-called greenhouse gases, the earths temperature would only be -18 0C. I think this is manifestly incorrect and results from the use of one average to calculate the average value of a dependent variable.
A simple everyday example;
Two drivers each travel 500 miles in 10 hours. The first one drives at a constant 50 mph and achieves a good fuel economy of 40 mpg. The second travels at 125 mph for 4 hours during which time he achieves a very low economy of 15 mpg, and stops for the remaining 6 hours. The average speed in both cases is 50mph over the 10 hour period, but we cannot use this to determine the average value of the dependent variable (mpg). In the first case it is 40mpg in the second 15mpg, both averaged over the same 10 hour period. As well, it is not possible to use the average (mph) to determine the value of the dependent variable (mpg) at any time during the two trips. In the first case it is a constant 40mpg over the entire period while in the second it is either zero when stopped or 15 mpg when speeding at 125mph, but with an average of 15 over the whole 10 hr period..
So it is with the climate model taught in universities. It is not possible to calculate the real world temperature anywhere on the globe from the average insolation. In the hypothetical world of the climate modellers only greenhouse gases and insolation determine temperature, instead of the myriad factors which determine the actual temperature at any given location in the real world. In the real world half of the globe is sunlit the other in darkness. Using the assumptions of the GHG model the dark side of the earth should be at absolute zero temperature since there is zero insolation. This is absurd, just as I think the whole hypothetical climate model is absurd.
If one sits in the sun on a hot day, the null hypothesis is that the direct sunshine causes one to feel hot. An alternative hypothesis (Greenhouse) is that ones hot skin is only possible due to backradiation from CO2 and H2O in the atmosphere. Both Occam’s razor and common sense tell us the null hypothesis is correct.
70
S-B is to the 4th power, even if it did apply to the planet’s surface, which it doesn’t
So averaging sunlight DOES NOT average the effect of that sunlight.
50
David Wood:
You can sit in the sun in some places in Antarctica so long as there isn’t a puff of wind, and you don’t stay uncovered for very long. In some places the temperature MIGHT get to 5℃, although the usual peak temperature has a minus figure in front. Yet the evidence that Antarctica is lower in CO2 isn’t available.
80
Do you have references to course contents or are you making this up?
What a waste of your time
06
No David, that would be a statement of the ‘experimental’ hypothesis.
The null hypothesis would state: Direct sunshine is NOT associated with feeling hot. The null hypothesis would thus not be proved and as a result can be rejected.
The null hypothesis is used because one can (often easily) disprove a negative (and then be forced to adopt a more precise hypothesis, or modify one’s theory).
Were one to hypothesize that direct sun is associated with feeling hot, I can describe any number of instances where that may not hold true.
CO2/global warming was easily falsifiable, which was why it was dropped from the neo-Marxist globalist narrative. The null hypothesis stated that CO2 was not associated with warming. The null hypothesis was indeed proved by the unpredicted pause (as well as by paleo climatology, Vostock ice cores etc etc).
The UN then adopted an unfalsifiable definition, “climate change.”
Not science.
Pure ideology without pretence.
30
27 Oct: Illawarra Mercury: Four youths escorted from Royal National Park after six small fires were spotted
“Officers from Sutherland Police Area Command were assisted by the Dog Unit and police airwing Polair, while Rural Fire Service crews worked to extinguish the fires.
“A short time later, four youths were escorted from the area. They are not in police custody.
“Until the cause is determined the fires will be treated as suspicious.
“Inquiries are continuing.”
Anyone with information about this incident is urged to contact Crime Stoppers…
https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/6459486/suspicious-fires-in-royal-national-park-during-bushfire-alert/?cs=298
70
See: man-made warming! Man-made fire! Man made stoopid! Oh right, kids: “four youths were escorted from the area”.
Ya thinkin’ what I’m thinkin’ that a certain Eek! Stinkies! group financially assisted them to spark up a little controversy?
After the spate of busfires we had the past few years, the immediate cry from loonies/media/MPs is that it’s all our collective fault and action must be taken… until police announce they caught the arsonist, and/or arsonists, but by then everybody knows it’s our carbon lifestyle wot done it.
Climate Malaise: a general feeling of discomfort, illness, or uneasiness whose exact cause is difficult to identify, or –
Climatic Hysteria: exaggerated or uncontrollable emotion or excitement, esp. among a group of people; selective amnesia, shallow volatile emotions, and overdramatic or attention-seeking behavior.
80
Only a minute number of arsonists are ever charged or convicted.
50
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/384104/man-charged-with-arson-in-relation-to-moutere-highway-fire
6 March 2019: “Nelson Police have also charged the man and a 24-year-old woman with arson in relation to [another] fire this afternoon… They have been remanded in custody and are due to appear in Nelson District Court tomorrow…
“Meanwhile, Fire and Emergency is treating a 3ha scrub fire on Christchurch’s Port Hills as suspicious… It was the same location where several houses burnt down during the 2017 Port Hills fires”.
Over here they tend to get caught and charged (yet conviction details always seem to disappear down memory hole 101) while the general consensus – thanks to shouty opportunists – is that man-made CCC is to blame nevertheless.
30
24 Oct: MirageNews: Police charge teen for deliberately lighting fire at Cootamundra
A 13-year-old boy has been charged following an investigation into a deliberately lit fire in the state’s south west.
Shortly after 8.30pm on Tuesday (22 October 2019) police and emergency services were called to a bush fire at Pioneer Park, Cootamundra.
Police established a crime scene and officers attached to the NSW Rural Fire Service and Fire and Rescue NSW contained the fire, which spread across four hectares of bushland…
Following investigations, police arrested a 13-year-old boy yesterday (Wednesday 23 October 2019) and charged him with intentionally cause fire.
The boy was granted conditional bail and is due to appear before a children’s court on 4 November 2019.
Police inquiries are continuing.
https://www.miragenews.com/police-charge-teen-for-deliberately-lighting-fire-at-cootamundra/
60
broadcast on ABC last nite:
AUDIO: 54min: Updated 12 Oct: CBC Spark: From lab-grown meat to molecular coffee: How tech is disrupting the food industry
‘Once you get to the point where it’s better, it’s over for the cow,’ says research analyst
Written by Chelsey Gould. Interviews produced by Adam Killick, Kent Hoffman and Nora Young.
“We are going to see a decline in conventional livestock products over the next generation as consumers shift to use these other products,” Evan Fraser, Canada research chair in global food security, told Spark host Nora Young…
Catherine Tubb, senior research analyst from technology disruption think-tank RethinkX, agrees, and says that shift is “all about economics.”
“This is not about a need,” Tubb said. “Animals in general are quite inefficient, so if you can do something more efficiently, it’s going to be kind of cheaper and better by the standards.”…
A September report from RethinkX, titled “Rethinking Food and Agriculture 2020-2030, (***LINK)” suggests that we’re on the edge of the biggest food disruption since the agricultural revolution, and it’s mostly based on precision biology…
The report predicts that the demand for products from cows in the U.S. will fall at least 70 per cent by 2030, eventually rendering it “obsolete” as a food source…
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/spark/from-lab-grown-meat-to-molecular-coffee-how-tech-is-disrupting-the-food-industry-1.5316906
***from 76-page report:
If land no longer has a productive agricultural use, its future value will depend on its alternative uses. These could include amenities (ranches, national parks, wilderness), solar farms, commercial and industrial development, housing, forestry, and carbon sinks (reforestation or regenerative agriculture).
8 Oct: NZ Herald: Protein technology to collapse animal farming within 10 years: new report
By Andrea Fox
A new report forecasts the world is on the cusp of the fastest disruption to agricultural production for 10,000 years in a shift that could threaten New Zealand’s key primary exports.
Independent London/San Francisco-based think tank RethinkX says the US cattle farming industry, including dairying, will be all but bankrupted by protein technology within 10 years, with severe knock-on effects for all associated businesses.
It says the cost of proteins will be five times cheaper by 2030 than existing animal proteins, and 10 times cheaper by 2035, to ultimately become close to the price of sugar…
RethinkX: Who we are
Tony Seba is a world-renowned thought leader, Silicon Valley entrepreneur, educator and the author of the Amazon #1 best-selling book Clean Disruption of Energy and Transportation: How Silicon Valley Will Make Oil, Nuclear, Natural Gas, Coal, Electric Utilities and Conventional Cars Obsolete by 2030…READ ON
https://www.rethinkx.com/who-we-are
81
Those jokers are just like the “climatologists” who believe that they understand everything.
i.e. downright dangerous.
110
Five times, 10 times cheaper… so cheap they’ll be giving it away for free!
“There are two centers of domestication for sugarcane: one for Saccharum officinarum by Papuans in New Guinea and another for Saccharum sinense by Austronesians in Taiwan and southern China. Papuans and Austronesians originally primarily used sugarcane as food for domesticated pigs”. Mmmm, sweet pork…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sugar
Snow showers and freezing temperatures all week for Indonesia’s Puncak Jaya (4,884 m), New Guinea’s highest (and glaciated) peak:
https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Carstensz-Pyramid/6day/top
70
This climate madness has a long way to run. Many young folks have been completely snookered by the green propaganda on carbon and so-called renewables.
110
And the younger they are under maybe 40 years the more they believe the propaganda.
Back to basics in education was not dropped for the good of students.
80
Interesting article:
Does the Climate System Have a Preferred Average State? Chaos and the Forcing-Feedback Paradigm
October 25th, 2019 by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2019/10/does-the-climate-system-have-a-preferred-average-state-chaos-and-the-forcing-feedback-paradigm/
40
RicDre,
Could you give your perspective of what the article was about?
Roy talks about a two state climate, where the Earth flips between hot and cold, ie Medieval Warming to Little Ice age. He could also have referenced Ice ages and interglacials!
30
I believe that Dr. Roy Spencer is saying that while the “forcings” paradigm may explain short-term changes in the climate (year-to-year fluctuations), it is not necessary to explain long-term changes. As he says: “But a nonlinear dynamical system needs no external forcing to experience change. I’m not saying that the MWP and LIA were not externally forced, only that their explanation does not necessarily require external forcing.”
30
“Climate change freight train accelerating, the bridge is out, and Lord of the Flies children calling the shots. Nothing to do but enjoy the scenery until the climate masterplan blows sky high”
“As has been said countless times, you can’t make this stuff up. You can’t fight it either. It’s a new plague sweeping the world, like millions of youths with suicide vests strapped on, except these youths don’t know what explosives are. Their handlers prefer not to sully their minds with trifles like that. Read on…”
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/10/26/climate-change-freight-train-accelerating-the-bridge-is-out-and-lord-of-the-flies-children-calling-the-shots-nothing-to-do-but-enjoy-the-scenery-until-the-climate-masterplan-blows-sky-high/
60
“California Faces “Biggest Blackout Ever” As 2.5 Million PG&E Customers May Have No Power For Days”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/26/california-faces-biggest-blackout-ever-as-2-5-million-pge-customers-may-have-no-power-for-days/
Elsewhere – generator sales market tipped to boom
60
Dingbats prevail in California. It is fast becoming a land of dingbats. Their votes are cast and they are getting what they voted for.
80
Generac shares have doubled this year in the US. Just sayin.
Was reading a blog this morning on Generac. A guy was complaining that the basic system only had a 24hr hour capacity. They and Kohler seem to have some nicley packaged systems.
60
I have just returned from a cruise from Los Angeles to Sydney, and I was struck by the vastness of the Pacific Ocean. So much so, that I Googled the mass of water in the oceans and the mass of the Earth’s atmosphere, which revealed that the mass of the former is 270 times larger than that of the latter. Given that, and with my basic understanding of undergraduate physics, it beggars belief that a very small change in the composition (100ppm CO2) or temperature (1-2 degrees C) of the atmosphere could have anything more than a negligible effect on the oceans of the world. Have I missed something?
100
RichardT:
You’ve missed the Indian Ocean with numbers of idyllic islands. And the Atlantic, but who wants to go the St. Helena or Iceland?
I suggest that with all this money flooding the Climate Doom/Extinction scheme you should be able to get a subsidy for further exploration. HINT: don’t raise that question, the key phrase should be something like “water vapour enhancement of AGW observations”.
Can readers help with a snappy title for Richard’s article?
I was thinking that maybe “The Fitzroy Effect: Hot air causes increased vapour emission.”
70
But only if he’s touching his toes.
Tony.
90
and how is your rolling coal (you will need to look that up) vehicle conversion going?
Are you and the tribute band going to play in Sydney (boyz from oz)
04
The idiot PF in his fantasy land yet again
Grow up PF, stop your mindless attention-seeking trolling
30
Rolling coal funniest video on you tube I reckon .
10
Link
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdDxjge5hmY#fauxfullscreen
10
finally someone, and thanks robert, had the brains to do the research
03
If only climate modellers spent a bit of time outdoors!
Pacific Ocean is the globe’s dominant solar collector. It collects and distributes energy to the rest of the globe via the Southern Ocean circulation and northward currents through Berring Strait.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-15.3445442,-155.5012778,12592194m/data=!3m1!1e3
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Excellent Rick,
That perspective shows just how big the pacific ocean is, it occupies the whole hemisphere (apart from a little bit of the east coast of Australia).
Richard T,
How did you like the pacific cruise? I suppose there a re a lot of sea days, but did you have fun?
30
Apart from the Americas on the far right, and as you say, Peter, a smidgen of NSW/QLD on the far left,
today’s satellite view shows the Pacific Ocean occupies the whole hemisphere.
Arrr, thar be an ‘ole lot o’ sunken mysteries lurkin’ beneath them thar peaceful waves, Cap’n Pugwash.
20
yes
03
An empty meaningless comment from GA.
How unusual .. 😉
40
Yes
20
Yes
20
RichardT, if your cruise ship was powered (both for propulsion and on-board amenities–lights, heating/cooking, etc.) only by wind and/or solar, you get three halos; otherwise, you get three horns. If you returned to LA by swimming, you get two additional halos.
10
Had did your cruise ship sail through all the plastic straws clogging the ocean surface?
10
BOM errors again. Usually errors happen when a cold front comes through in the afternoon and the climate data online mimimum temperature is greater that the observed minimum. This time a couple of climate data online temperatures are less than the observed maximum temperatures. For 25th October, the observed maximum was 28.5°C at 4:57am while the climate data online maximum was 25.6°C. For 25th October at Mangalore Airport the observed max was 27.7°C at 6:12am while the climate data online max was 24.7°C. About 99.9% of the time, the climate data online maximum temperatures are higher than observed temperatures
30
read all:
25 Oct: ClimateChangeNews: Green Climate Fund replenishment fails to fill hole left by Trump’s US
After the US, Russia, and Australia did not contribute, other developed countries fell $500m short of the fund’s starting capital
By Chloé Farand
https://climatechangenews.com/2019/10/25/green-climate-fund-replenishment-fails-fill-hole-left-trumps-us/
40
Boondoggle slush fund.
10
Chris Kenny/Sky just did another terrific response to Guardian/ABC over the Andy Pitman drought statements. it’s bizarre how they try to read something else into what he clearly said.
anyway, it reminded me I want to have a go at Sky Australia. one, I switched on for Outsiders this evening, and the weather person said it’s heating up, and went on to give temps for cities along the East Coast, the highest of which was 25C.
worse, Foxtel has replaced Fox Extra segments on Fox News Channel during ad breaks with Sky Australia promos and other Foxtel promos. there is a Sky News clip that plays during dozens of these breaks daily with a Sky reporter saying, paraphrasing –
– today, scientists confirmed global warming has shifted the seasons –
—
am presuming the reference is to this nonsense:
19 Jul 2018: InsideClimateNews: Summers Are Getting Hotter Faster, Especially in North America’s Farm Belt
Four decades of satellite data confirm man-made global warming and find seasonal warming trends that could threaten crops.
By Sabrina Shankman
Summers are heating up faster than the other seasons as global temperatures rise, especially in parts of the Northern Hemisphere, and the changes carry the clear fingerprints of human-caused climate change, a new study shows.
The findings deliver another blow against two refrains commonly repeated by climate deniers: that the satellite record doesn’t show that the planet is warming, and that it’s impossible to know how much warming is from nature and how much is from human beings.
Both claims are wrong, say the authors of the study, published Thursday in the journal Science.
Opponents to climate action have pointed to satellites in their arguments against global warming, said lead author Benjamin Santer, a climate researcher at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. “But in fact, satellite temperature data show very strong signals of human effects on climate.”…
Santer and his co-authors looked at the satellite record going back to the late 1970s to trace how warming is impacting seasons differently. They found that while year-round temperatures are rising, the rate of that temperature increase is happening faster in the mid-latitudes during the summer than it is during the winter. That’s even more pronounced in the Northern Hemisphere…
“When we think about climate change, we think about the world getting a little warmer every year, and we think of the consequences—rising seas, more heat waves, extreme storms,” said John Abraham, a thermal scientist who studies climate change and ocean warming. “We certainly have a fingerprint on the long-term trends of warming. But what Santer and his team did is ask, ‘What about how the weather changes throughout the year?'”…
In an accompanying article (LINK) also in the journal Science, atmospheric scientist William Randel, who was not involved in the study, wrote that the study’s findings “provide further markings of a substantial human influence on Earth’s climate, affecting not only global averages but also local and seasonal changes.”…
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/19072018/global-warming-evidence-summer-record-temperatures-crops-agriculture-climate-change-data
readers at WUWT went at it:
26 Jul 2018: WUWT: Ben Santer: Climate Change Responsible for Hotter and Colder Weather
by Eric Worrall
The latest Santer effort is interesting in the context of other climate predictions. Remember back when climate alarmists were predicting warmer winters and shorter snow seasons? The most impressive effort of the “warmer winter” cycle of predictions, in my opinion, is Dr. Trenberth’s prediction of warmer, shorter winters AND more snow in midwinter…
from comments:
Pat Frank: Not a single physically valid error bar in the entire paper. It’s narrativism, not science.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/07/26/ben-santer-climate-change-responsible-for-hotter-and-colder-weather/
40
why the use of this Sky clip annoys me so much is because Fox News is the only channel that consistently gives CAGW sceptics a voice. wish they would pull this clip, as it gives the impression it’s another case of settled science, globally, when it is nothing of the sort.
30
I think it is their little joke in regard to the early start of the Cricket
I actually thought the alarmists would protests the adverts for trivialising the catastrophic/tipping point/unprecedented emergency thing.
10
Ben “Jeckle” Santer is always the fellow on the spot when a piece of impromptu chicanery is demanded by the warmists’ agenda and invariably he delivers the goods.
30
Love this year by year rainfall comparison from bom , absolutely no trend , no pattern just random like lotto .
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/history/rainfall/?fbclid=IwAR1yQi9aqiP3bqSeISF54fy8vKfJe-zUwjvPbuDn2uBe2aFEhYx7Ae77JJk
30
Of course it’s random. In Townsville we were in dire straits for water, then it rained and Syd Harbs of water flowed out to sea in a few days. Hasn’t rained since.
40
We all knew the honeymoon for EVs couldn’t last forever, that charging on someone else’s dime must stop. Well it has for Tesla owners. In the US the free charge has come to an end and owners are being charged abt 0.24c/kWh.
I just ran that through a “savings” calculator for EVs and compared it with a 35 MPG ICE [American] the annual savings were – $13.
Tyres for a Tesla S are abt $400/corner and it is a heavy vehicle so they won’t last as long as those on our ordinary sedans. I checked on insurance and that is not cheap. It might cost me an extra $500/Y. I’ll stick with my Camry thanks.
100
25 Oct: WSJ Editorial: Fires and Blackouts Made in Sacramento
Newsom tries to deflect blame, but PG&E is the agent of his policies.
After again shutting power to hundreds of thousands this week, California’s utility PG&E disclosed Thursday that it had discovered a broken jumper cable by the ignition site of a wildfire blazing across Sonoma County. The company has warned of more blackouts this weekend and perhaps for the next decade as it refurbishes its aging grid.
Gov. Gavin Newsom is trying to deflect political blame. “It’s about dog-eat-dog capitalism meeting climate change. It’s about corporate greed meeting climate change. It’s about decades of mismanagement,” Mr. Newsom declared. But Democrats for years have treated PG&E as their de facto political subsidiary. The wildfires and blackouts are the direct result of their mismanagement.
The state Public Utilities Commission is in charge of enforcing state safety laws and regulations, which can carry penalties of up to $50,000 per violation per day. Yet PG&E received no safety fines related to its power-grid management over the last several years. The commission has instead focused on enforcing the Legislature’s climate mandates.
State law mandates that utilities obtain 33% of electric generation from renewables such as wind and solar by 2020 and 60% by 2030. Utilities must spend hundreds of millions of dollars each year to reduce the cost of green energy for low-income households. PG&E has prioritized political obeisance over safety.
In 2018 PG&E spent $509 million on electric discounts for low-income customers in addition to $125 million for no-cost weatherization and efficiency upgrades for disadvantaged communities. Utilities also receive allowances from the state’s cap-and-trade program—$7.5 billion since 2012—to pay for other “ratepayer benefits” that reduce emissions.
For instance, the Legislature in 2015 mandated that utilities spend $100 million annually on solar systems in low-income communities. This is on top of the $2.2 billion in customer rebates for rooftop solar installations, which utilities charged to ratepayers…
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fires-and-blackouts-made-in-sacramento-11572044500
40
unsurprisingly, includes a dig at Boris Johnson, which I won’t excerpt:
27 Oct: ABC: Britain pushes towards coal-free future as old power plants come crashing down
By Europe correspondent Bridget Brennan
(Bridget Brennan is a Europe correspondent based in London. She was previously the ABC’s national Indigenous affairs correspondent, covering Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander affairs across Australia)
For the first time since the 1880s, Britain has gone its longest stretch this year without using coal to keep the lights on.
Earlier this year the UK clocked up a fortnight without using the fossil fuel for electricity.
The UK’s National Grid, which supplies electricity to England, Scotland and Wales, says coal is “quickly becoming an irrelevance” in Britain…
At the National Coal Mining Museum, former miners don hard hats and take school groups and tourists 140 metres underground to educate them about a bygone era…
“When the jobs are gone, people have to start moving to different areas or accepting that the income is going to be less,” Mr Wordsworth says.
“I’ve seen a massive change in the village I live in … when I go back to the ’70s and ’80s it was all a tight-knit family community.”
One thing that has been hard for him to accept is the importation of coal into the UK, used largely in manufacturing.
Most of it comes from Russia.
“We’re actually burning other people’s coal which for me, it’s difficult to comprehend, we’ve got the skills, we’ve got the coal, why don’t we do it?”…
But the UK remains heavily reliant on energy imports from Europe, and if a no-deal Brexit happens, that could mean a price hike for consumers…
There is mounting pressure on politicians at Westminster to adopt more aggressive measures to protect the environment…
On the streets of London this month, tens of thousands of protesters joined demonstrations with Extinction Rebellion…
(Caroline Kuzemko, an expert in sustainable energy transitions from the University of Warwick) says the youth climate strikes led by teenage activist Greta Thunberg had been significant in forcing politicians to implement net zero.
“If they want to attract a voter base that’s a little bit younger and [climate change action] is what the younger voter base is primarily interested in, then they need to respond.”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-27/britains-coal-free-future-as-old-power-plants-close/11635548
31
27 Oct: Guardian: Wait eight seconds longer for your kettle – and cut your carbon bill
Electricity North West says plans to lower its voltage could cut emissions by 10% and save customers £60 a year
by Jillian Ambrose
From Cheshire to Cumbria, thousands of people may soon be waiting a little longer for kettles to boil. A small sacrifice, perhaps, for cheaper energy.
Under plans to lower the voltage of energy grids across the north-west of England, about 45,000 homes can expect to shave £60 from their annual electricity bills. The scheme could save millions of pounds on energy a year and cut carbon emissions without people noticing any difference, says the local network company.
During “Smart Street” trials over four years, engineers for Electricity North West found they could carefully lower the grid’s voltage by enough to save on energy without noticeably slowing household appliances or causing light bulbs to flicker…
“Voltage control” is well established in some states in the US, but Electricity North West will be the first network in the UK to reduce its voltage towards the lower end of the normal 220V to 240V range…
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/27/wait-eight-seconds-kettle-cut-carbon-bill-electricity-north-west-voltage
21
Bill has rightly brought up the issue of how trolls are treated here on the blog, indicating that they should be ignored, no response.
He has identified the style as uninvolved with facts and just seeking to intrude and distort.
A recent example;
http://joannenova.com.au/2019/10/weekend-unthreaded-283/#comment-2211486
There is however some good to compensate for the comments.
50
http://joannenova.com.au/2019/10/giles-weather-station-sited-next-to-the-only-bitumen-for-500-km/#comment-2210944
00
27 Oct: EconomicTimesIndia: PTI: BASIC ministers call for comprehensive implementation of Paris climate deal
Environment Minister Prakash Javadekar, who attended the 29th BASIC ministers’ meeting said the meeting worked out priorities and issues as a group to be highlighted at the UN Climate Change Conference.
BEIJING: Environment ministers of the BASIC countries have called for “comprehensive” implementation of the Paris climate deal amid threats by US President Donald Trump to withdraw from it.
They also called on the developed nations to deliver on their commitment to provide USD 100 billion climate finance to the developing countries to mitigate losses suffered in the implementation of the climate action plan.
Environment Minister Prakash Javadekar, who attended the 29th BASIC (Brazil, South Africa, India and China) ministers’ meeting here on Saturday, said the meeting worked out priorities and issues as a group to be highlighted at the UN Climate Change Conference to be held in Chile in December…
Trump said on Saturday that the US will definitely withdraw from the Paris deal, which he described as a “bad deal.” He claimed that his pro fossil fuel policies had made the US an energy superpower, BBC reported.
The US pullout will take effect next year, the day after the 2020 US presidential election, assuming that Trump is re-elected, it said…
Javadekar said the main issue is that developed countries should keep up their annual commitments for the USD 100 billion climate fund which aims to mitigate the least developing countries to manage climate change issues as the Paris agreement comes into effect.
“The developed world has promised USD 100 billion per year till 2020,” he said, adding that only about USD 10 to 20 billion has been contributed so far.
“Cost of combating climate change results in trillions of dollars but USD 100 billion is goodwill gesture to help the very least developed countries,” he said…
They urged developed countries to propose the new collective quantified goal on finance as soon as possible, including detailed roadmap and timetable.
“The goal should be from a floor of USD 100 billion per year, significantly publicly funded and of greater transparency. The 2020 deliberations should draw lessons from the experience of meeting the USD 100 billion pledge,” the joint statement said…
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/basic-ministers-call-for-comprehensive-implementation-of-paris-climate-deal/articleshow/71784623.cms
11
27 Oct: Scoop NZ: Oxfam Press Release: Oxfam reaction to Green Climate Fund pledging summit
Responding to the outcome of the pledging conference to the Green Climate Fund in Paris, Armelle Le Comte, Climate and Energy Advocacy Manager for the Oxfam confederation, said:
…It is encouraging that a range of countries including Norway, Sweden, Germany, the UK and France will double their contributions compared with the previous financing period…
“However, it is appalling that Australia and the US have failed to provide any funding at all, while many other nations have made only token gestures or contributions far below their fair share. Millions of people around the world are already facing hunger, homelessness and extreme poverty because of the climate crisis. Oxfam urges wealthy countries that have not pledged anything or remain far below their fair share to increase their contributions ahead of the COP25 climate summit in December.”…READ ON
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO1910/S00172/oxfam-reaction-to-green-climate-fund-pledging-summit.htm
26 Oct: Xinhua: Chile prepares to host APEC forum, COP25 session despite unrest: official
Ribera said his ministry on Monday contacted the other 20 APEC members, and “we have not received, from any of them, any changes regarding the participation of their leaders.”…
Ribera said that Chilean officials are also working on organizing a key meeting on global warming, the 25th session of the Conference of the Parties (COP25) to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, which is scheduled for Dec. 2-13…
Protests were sparked on Oct. 14 by an increase in subway fares. So far, more than 4,000 people have been arrested.
On Oct. 19, Chilean President Sebastian Pinera declared a state of emergency and imposed in most of the country a curfew that is still in force in many regions.
The president signed a bill on Thursday to overturn a recent 9.2-percent hike in electricity rates…
26 Oct: WSJ: Chile’s President Calls on Cabinet to Resign After Large-Scale Protest in Santiago
SANTIAGO, Chile—Chilean President Sebastián Piñera on Saturday called for his entire cabinet to step down, one day after more than a million people took to the streets in the capital of Santiago to protest inequality and the high cost of living in the Andean nation…
Chile, a nation of 17 million people, had been, until now, Latin America’s most prosperous and stable country. It has been rocked by days of protests and rioting that have led the center-right Mr. Piñera to declare a state of emergency, implement a curfew and deploy soldiers into the streets.
The unrest was sparked by a fare increase in Santiago’s subway, one of Latin America’s most modern metros. About 20 people have died since the start of protests earlier this month…
He has announced plans to raise the minimum wage and pensions, roll back increases in electricity prices, hike taxes on the wealthy and invest more in health care.
Steven Levitsky, a Harvard political scientist and expert on Latin America, said it isn’t certain that will be enough to end the protests, which don’t have clear leadership.
“The protests are expressing massive discontent and we have some idea of why, but it is not like it’s a protest with a set of leaders with a set of demands,” he said. “Because of the absence of leadership of the protests and the ambiguity of the demands, we don’t know if this is enough.”…
30
this story is not at the link. have found some excerpts:
Morrison to unveil plan to slash power costs
The Sydney Morning Herald – 5 hours ago
Prime Minister Scott Morrison will announce a $102 million plan to protect Australians from blackouts and slash power bills by improving the grid and lowering wholesale energy costs through increased competition. … Under the plan, the federal and NSW governments will jointly underwrite the first stage of TransGrid’s upgrade to the transmission link between Queensland and NSW to deliver an extra 190 megawatts of capacity during peak demand periods and lower prices…
With wholesale power costs accounting for about a third of the average Australian household’s electricity bill, the initiative aims to deliver lower-cost retail power. … The deal, to be announced on Monday, means TransGrid, the network transmission service provider, will be able to get started immediately on the project – called the NSW-Queensland Interconnector (QNI) – before the Australian Energy Regulator signs off on its final stage…
40
Sounds like political nonsense. “Slash power bills”? Nothing real here.
60
Just seen this report about the interconnector and now wonder if Qld is the new battery of the eastern seaboard .
New coal is needed not this garbage .
60
PRECISELY,
QLD is talking about closing some of it coal fired power, and these dopes want to build a new inter-connect ?? !!
DOH !!
50
Andy:
The UK is installing gas-fired diesels such as now in South Australia. Faster start-up but lower efficiency (hence higher emissions) than CCGTs.
https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2019/10/27/new-gas-turbine-order-aims-to-prepare-uk-for-intermittent-future/
The turbine claim is journalistic confusion.
40
Surely its much more efficient to run them at a steady continuous rate. 😉
40
Where are they getting the gas from? 😉
40
Thanks Pat,
“Morrison to unveil plan to slash power costs
The Sydney Morning Herald ”
Confirmation that he has no idea of “governing”.
Essentially the supply of electricity in Australia 2020 should be so easy and cheap.
All of the technical issues are well known.
Taking lessons from France and China we have role models for Nuclear power and high efficiency Coal fired power generation.
But No, reality must not be allowed to get in the way of progress and we continue on the path of Complexification via the pseudo solution of “increased competition” where power users can ring Scott’s special hot line to bargain for a better deal. After that you might need a good strong drink, or two.
Another layer of blood suckers to complete the destruction of our national industrial and commercial base and bring us closer to collapse and the ultimate fate of being a holiday destination for the rich and powerful from our new owners, the PRC.
I’m still having trouble understanding how Seven and a half tonnes of Gold can be moved from Canberra to the Great Big Barrier Reef without an Interconnector: maybe it went by submarine that MalEx444 had stationed in Lake Burley Griffin?
Sixty years ago we had stories of men with black hats, a patch over one eye and a sword in the hand not carrying the stolen bag of Gold coins, engaging in Plunder.
I didn’t think that plunder was allowed in democratic nations.
But I was wrong, wasn’t I.
KK
70
“Climate Journalist Accidentally Makes the Case for Fossil Fuel Powered Industrialization”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/27/climate-journalist-accidentally-makes-the-case-for-fossil-fuel-powered-industrialization/
30
“The Globalists’ Race Against Time on China”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/27/the-globalists-race-against-time-on-china/
30
‘The globalist vision is one world government in which misery is shared equally.’
Archibald is wrong, the utopian vision is to eliminate the richest five percent and the poorest five percent. In this way there will only be two classes, upper middle and lower middle.
Beijing is playing the long game, they have history.
20
open access, read all:
28 Oct: Australian: EV drivers under pressure to pay their fair share of road costs
Exclusive By Geoff Chambers
Electric vehicle drivers should be charged road-user costs, with 76 per cent of Australians calling on ***green-car owners to contribute to transport infrastructure, and almost one-in-two declaring it unfair they avoid paying fuel excise.
New polling obtained by The Australian reveals pushback against electric vehicle owners, with Australian motorists warning “there shouldn’t be one rule for them and another for us”.
The survey of 1500 Australians, conducted by pollster Toby Ralph for the Australian Automobile Association, shows an “overwhelming sentiment that all road users should pay to fund the roads, not just those using petrol or diesel”….
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/ev-drivers-under-pressure-to-pay-their-fair-share-of-road-costs/news-story/06beaaec72e96d87a76c6c0e0dc122df
30
AUDIO: 19min57sec: 28 Oct: 2GB: Wake Up Australia: Aussie floods create havoc during drought
with Luke Grant
Helen Dalton MP, Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party Member for Murray, joins Luke Grant to discuss her proposed bill for water registery.
Mrs Dalton asks “In what country in the world would floods be creating havoc during a drought? The one country where politicians and corporations can make millions from keeping water scarce, keeping prices high and keeping their water ownership secret.”
Her bill would…MUST LISTEN
https://www.2gb.com/podcast/aussie-floods-create-havoc-during-drought/
2 Nov Issue: NewsWeekly: COVER STORY Murray-Darling Basin Plan based on debunked science
by Patrick J. Byrne
“It is not the drought causing farmers to leave in droves, it’s governments taking 30 per cent of irrigation water under the new Murray Darling Basin water plan that is based on ‘erroneous’ science that is driving farmers out of business,” according to a long-time Murray River farmer…
He explained to News Weekly how the network of huge dams across the Basin, that once stored enough water to last farmers through a five-to-seven year drought, now only store enough allocation water for a two-to-three year drought. “These storages have been reprioritised to provide water to the Lower Lakes (Alexandrina and Albert) in South Australia to artificially maintain them as freshwater lakes,” he said…
Now, a revealing research paper published by the CSIRO refutes claims that the Lower Lakes have been freshwater lakes for the past 7,000 years.
The CSIRO paper, “Watching the tide roll away – contested interpretations of the nature of the Lower Lakes of the Murray Darling Basin” (LINK), was written by Dr Peter Gill of the School of Health and Life Sciences at the Federation University of Australia.
It is a sad read, not only for its exposure of erroneous science, but for how erroneous science was used to frame a new Basin Plan and for allocating $13 billion to “disinvest” in the Basin’s agriculture – that is, to reduce irrigation water allocations by one-third, resulting in an untold number of farms shutting down and causing enormous economic hardship and suffering…
Furthermore, Dr Gill says that “this observation for an estuarine history” is now “vindicated” by another 2019 study of the region’s environmental history by Anna Helfensdorfer, Hannah Power and Thomas Hubble. Their paper, “Modelling Holocene analogues of coastal plain estuaries reveals the magnitude of sea-level threat” (LINK), in Nature, shows that estuarine conditions extended as far as 200 kilometres north of Lake Alexandrina, even at times in the earth’s history when sea levels have been significantly lower than today…READ ALL
http://www.newsweekly.com.au/issue.php?id=535
51
King Island to get a wave generating boondoggle , wonder if it will work as well as the others .
40
for anyone who thinks the media will improve their reporting of CAGW, think again. my attention was recently drawn to the Judith Neilson Institute:
28 Nov 2018: AFR: Philanthropist Judith Neilson puts $100m into supporting journalism
by Robert Bolton
(Robert Bolton was a Washington Correspondent for ABC radio and later Chief European Correspondent. He presented “The Media Report” on Radio National)
Philanthropist and art-gallery owner Judith Neilson is spending $100 million to set up a journalism institute in Sydney…
Ms Neilson described herself as an avid consumer of news and said she recognised the need for evidence-based journalism…
Ms Neilson runs the White Rabbit art gallery in Chippendale, which specialises in art from China. She endowed a chair in architecture at the University of NSW and a scholarship in contemporary art at the University of Sydney…
The spokesman said the $100 million will not be an endowment. It will be spent over the “next several years” funding journalism projects after which the organisation will “take on a life of its own”…
Ms Neilson spent $12.9 million on a warehouse in Chippendale which will be converted into a purpose-made base for the institute…
One of the board members will be Mark Ryan, who was an adviser to prime minister Paul Keating and spent nearly 25 years advising the Lowy family, which included establishing the Lowy Institute for political and strategic thinking…
Apart from art and journalism philanthropy Ms Neilson has been a significant investor in Sydney property. She has spent $100 million buying and renovating property in Chippendale, which is close to the University of Technology of Sydney, and the University of Sydney and University of Notre Dame.
Ms Neilson joined the Financial Review Rich List in 2015 when she separated from her husband Kerr Neilson, the founder of Platinum Asset Management.
https://www.afr.com/policy/health-and-education/philanthropist-judith-neilson-puts-100m-into-supporting-journalism-20181128-h18gum
18 Jul: Mumbrella: ABC, The Guardian and SMH among the recipients of the first Judith Neilson Institute journalism grants
by Hannah Blackiston
The inaugural winners of the Judith Neilson Institute for Journalism and Ideas grants have been announced with eight titles winning an undisclosed figure to help further quality journalism…
The Guardian received a grant which it will use to fund the appointment of a Pacific editor, establish a network of independent journalists, and to commission major investigations to expand reporting on Australia’s immediate neighbourhood…
Lenore Taylor, editor of Guardian Australia, said: “We’ve wanted to do more reporting in the Pacific for a long time and this grant will make it possible. The region receives relatively little sustained reporting even though there are globally significant security, environmental and social stories to be told. We know these topics are of strong interest to our readers in Australia and around the world…
From 31 August-1 September 2019, the Institute will partner with the Sydney Opera House to co-present Antidote: a Festival of Ideas, Action and Change. The Institute is co-curating three sessions of the festival looking at how journalists work in authoritarian environments, who gets to speak on society’s most controversial subjects, and how journalists cover climate change.
https://mumbrella.com.au/abc-the-guardian-and-smh-among-the-recipients-of-the-first-judith-neilson-institute-journalism-grants-589620
16 Aug: SBS: WIN tickets to Antidote, a festival of ideas, action and change
A vital response to our uncertain times, Antidote provides a platform for essential conversations, ***consensus-building and practical solutions. The addition of new speakers and artists adds another dimension to the urgent themes of this year’s festival including: the blurring roles of journalism and activism; the power of grass-roots movements; alternative housing solutions for the next generation, the concept of justice; and the economics of disability…
https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/article/2019/08/15/win-tickets-antidote-festival-ideas-action-and-change
more to come.
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24 Jun: RadioInfo: Antidote 2019 at the Sydney Opera House
Antidote will take over Australia’s most recognisable meeting place with pioneering ideas from some of the world’s leading creative minds and agents of change with some of the key themes including creativity in response to political and social turmoil; the construction of national identity and the interplay of globalism and patriotism; ‘fake news’ and assaults on truth and memory; the weaponisation of traditional and social media as tools for oppressing human rights; the manipulation of ‘big data’ for surveillance and control; and escapism and the resurgence of wellness and binge cultures…
The compelling local line-up includes author, ABC International Affairs Analyst and Griffith University Professor of Global Affairs, Stan Grant, ABC Election Analyst Antony Green and The Sydney Morning Herald’s National Editor, Tory Maguire…
Sydney Opera House’s Head of Talks & Ideas and Antidote Festival Director, Dr Edwina Throsby, says: “Antidote has fast established itself as the festival for all of us who believe the world can be a better place. We are facing some massive global issues: nationalism, digital safety, climate change and corruption. There is power in the meeting of great minds, and bringing together leading international thinkers in politics, journalism, art, and human rights…
Judith Neilson Institute director, Mark Ryan, says: “The space for rational debate and the contest of ideas is shrinking and Antidote provides a global stage to enlarge that space. We want to encourage people to actually listen to the other person’s argument and respond intelligently with a counter argument based on facts and evidence. Antidote can show how that can be done in a way that moves debates forward rather than into echo chambers where we listen only to those we agree with.”
https://radioinfo.com.au/news/antidote-2019-sydney-opera-house
15 Jul: Sydney Opera House: Antidote: Reviving the ‘dying art of disagreement’
How the Judith Neilson Institute will ignite informed debate
Lending its critical lens to the role of journalism in affecting change in a complicated world, the Institute is co-curating three sessions on how journalists work in authoritarian environments, who gets to speak on society’s most controversial subjects, and how journalists cover climate change.
Antidote Festival Director Dr Edwina Throsby speaks with Judith Neilson Institute Board Director Mark Ryan…
Throsby: Where do you think journalists have gone wrong (or right) in reporting climate change? What can we do to correct the course, and how should Australian journalists respond?
Ryan: It’s hard to generalise but much time was wasted giving too much airtime to partisan debates and shouting matches instead of focussing on the real world impacts and explaining the science better. It’s not easy and complex scientific issues are incredibly easy to undermine. But part of journalism’s job is to explain complex problems, in compelling ways, to a broad audience. That’s starting to happen belatedly, and it seems the debate has now moved on to “how to fix the problem” instead of “is there a problem.”…
https://www.sydneyoperahouse.com/festivals/antidote/news/reviving-journalism-judith-neilson-institute.html
Uni of Sydney: Women, Stories, Opportunities: Careers for Women in the Arts and Social Sciences
MEET THE SPEAKERS
Edwina Throsby – BA, PhD
Head of Talks & Ideas, Sydney Opera House
As the former Head of Curation of TEDxSydney, Throsby has dedicated her 20-year career to bringing complex topics and stories to the broadest possible audience across platforms and media. In her three years overseeing the artistic and creative vision for TEDxSydney, the ideas festival grew to almost 130,000 attendees, millions of online views and more than 150 satellite events.
Prior to TEDxSydney, Throsby founded and produced the ABC’s flagship multi-platform ideas program, Big Ideas, hosted by Tony Jones, which quickly expanded from ABC2 to the main ABC network and ABC News 24…
She has also worked on esteemed news and current affairs programs, including Four Corners, Media Watch and Q&A…
Edwina recently completed her PhD in political science, writing her thesis on undecided voters in Australia.
https://wordvine.sydney.edu.au/files/1370/20675/
Ryan – the former advisor and speechwriter for Paul Keating:
26 Sept: NewsMediaWorks: Mark Ryan’s speech to INFORM19 Summit
Mark Ryan is director of the Judith Nielson Institute for Journalism and Ideas.
ScoMo might have his Canberra Bubble. But I reckon journos have created a pretty good bubble of their own…
I happen to believe, somewhat unfashionably as I’ve discovered in some quarters, that News Corporation is good for journalism. Do I agree with everything News does or says? Of course not…
I’m not a regular viewer of Sky After Dark. But to Andrew, Paul, and Chris and the others, I say: knock yourselves out.
I happen to think Lenore Taylor at The Guardian is one of the most talented and committed editors anywhere…
But in the end, even the ABC’s most vocal critics must concede that it consistently produces indispensable, first-class journalism…
Journalism is, of course, more important than ever. But not only because of Trump. Or Brexit. Or because democracy is under threat around the world…
https://newsmediaworks.com.au/mark-ryans-speech-to-inform19-summit/
24 Jun: SMH: Cambridge Analytica whistleblower heads Antidote festival line up
By Linda Morris
Canadian data analyst Christopher Wylie – the whistleblower who exposed the widespread misuse of data by his former employer Cambridge Analytica – is among leading journalists and human rights activists headlining the festival…
The genesis of this year’s program dates to the exposure of the political marketing firm headed by US President Donald Trump’s former key adviser, Steve Bannon, and owned by hedge-fund billionaire Robert Mercer, festival director Edwina Throsby says.
Wylie showed how users’ preferences on social media platforms – Facebook, in particular – had been used to target voters with pro-Trump political advertising…
Throsby: “The election of Trump in 2016 and the Brexit vote have really changed the geopolitical shape of the western world, and the world more broadly. But they have also changed the way we look at democracy.”
How extensive the harvesting of social media data might have been used in the lead up to the May federal election is hard to assess, Throsby says.
“I think it is safe to assume there was some use of online data and social media and it is emerging with each election as being a more essential campaign battleground.”…
Antidote replaced the Festival of Dangerous Ideas at the Sydney Opera House three years ago…
For the first time the festival will be partnering with the recently established Judith Neilson Institute for Journalism and Ideas. The Institute is co-curating two sessions focusing on how journalists work in authoritarian environments and the value of free speech.
https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/art-and-design/cambridge-analytica-whistleblower-heads-antidote-festival-line-up-20190617-p51yfv.html
Artist takes kids to the Opera House in work about climate change
Glebe artist Jason Phu puts inner west kids at the forefront of his work about climate change for the Antidote festival of ideas.
Daily Telegraph – 22 Aug 2019
END OF STORY.
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‘But part of journalism’s job is to explain complex problems, in compelling ways, to a broad audience. That’s starting to happen belatedly, and it seems the debate has now moved on to “how to fix the problem” instead of “is there a problem.”…
Houston we have a problem …
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“Houston we have a problem …”
But its NOT CO2
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Lot of talking now in Australia.
It’s always good to talk.
But the incessant blathering from the educated, leaderless masses is just relentless Hillary style unit picking designed to involve and control all.
If only there was work to do, I think that people have been led to believe that nature will put water in your home, nature will naturally till the soil and plant crops, nature will water them and there will be someone else to dig the latrines when the pipes eventually clog up.
Modern society is divorced from reality, and that’s a big problem.
KK
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25 Oct: JudicialWatch: AP Reporters Pushed FBI to prosecute Manafort
New Benghazi Documents Confirm Clinton Email Cover-Up
The State Department Monitored People It Didn’t Like
by Tom Fitton
https://www.judicialwatch.org/tom-fittons-weekly-update/anti-trump-collusion-by-media/
25 Oct: Washington Times: Pentagon accused of leaking Flynn phone calls to Washington Post, fueling Trump-Russia probe
by Rowan Scarborough
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/oct/25/pentagon-accused-leaking-flynn-phone-calls-washing/
27 Oct: Washington Times: Paper coup: How Comey kicked off the ‘Deep State’ insurgency that Nunes put down
by Lee Smith
Excerpts from “The Plot Against the President: The True Story of How Congressman Devin Nunes Uncovered the Biggest Political Scandal in U.S. History” (Center Street, Hachette Book Group, Oct. 29, 2019) a 368-page book being published Tuesday by journalist Lee Smith.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/oct/27/plot-against-president-lee-smith-book-details-devi/
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No carbon, no life.
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“Who’s the hypocrite now?”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/27/whos-the-hypocrite-now/
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Minus 33˚C [-27˚F] up on Greenland’s Summit Camp,
Minus 61˚C down on Antarctica‘s Valkyrie / Dome Fuji summit, -47˚C at the South Pole, -14˚C at Scott Base / McMurdo Station.
As no place on the planet is 61˚C above freezing, my conclusion is the
averagemean temperature of the planet today is somewhere below zero, ie. negative. But ssshhh, don’t tell the kiddies – nor academic experts – they’re traumatised enough as it is. Have an ice day!40
70% of the planet surface is water so SST dominates the area average temperature. It ranges in temperature from 30C in the tropics down to -2C at the interface to polar sea ice. The average temperature is thus 14C. However when the AREA average is considered it lifts to 16C as the radial band length reduces from about 24,000km at the tropics down to about half that at the sea ice interface then to zero at the poles. The polar zones do not contain much area relative to the tropical zones so have little influence on the area averaged temperature.
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“The Real Climate Crisis Is Not Global Warming, It Is Cooling, And It May Have Already Started”
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/27/the-real-climate-crisis-is-not-global-warming-it-is-cooling-and-it-may-have-already-started/
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I doubt this will get the “Greta seal of Approval”
“Pyrmonter: More from less”
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2019/10/28/pyrmonter-more-from-less/
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Sea level rise won’t be coming from Antarctica.
https://www.thegwpf.com/sea-level-rise-from-antarctic-ice-shelves-might-be-overestimated-study-finds/
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This is good – sent to me today:
After our daughter of fifteen years of age was moved to tears by the speech of Greta Thunberg at the UN the other day, she became angry with our generation “who had been doing nothing for thirty years.”
So, we decided to help her prevent what the girl on TV announced of “massive eradication and the disappearance of entire ecosystems.”
We are now committed to give our daughter a future again, by doing our part to help cool the planet four degrees.
From now on she will go to school on a bicycle, because driving her by car costs fuel, and fuel puts emissions into the atmosphere. Of course it will be winter soon and then she will want to go by bus, but only as long as it is a diesel bus.
Somehow, that does not seem to be conducive to ‘helping the Climate’.
Of course, she is now asking for an electric bicycle, but we have shown her the devastation caused to the areas of the planet as a result of mining for the extraction of Lithium and other minerals used to make batteries for electric bicycles, so she will be pedaling, or walking. Which will not harm her, or the planet. We used to cycle and walk to school too.
Since the girl on TV demanded “we need to get rid of our dependency on fossil fuels” and our daughter agreed with her, we have disconnected the heat vent in her room. The temperature is now dropping to twelve degrees in the evening, and will drop below freezing in the winter, we have promised to buy her an extra sweater, hat, tights, gloves and a blanket.
For the same reason we have decided that from now on she only takes a cold shower. She will wash her clothes by hand, with a wooden washboard, because the washing machine is simply a power consumer and since the dryer uses natural gas, she will hang her clothes on the clothes line to dry.
Speaking of clothes, the ones that she currently has are all synthetic, so made from petroleum. Therefore on Monday, we will bring all her designer clothing to the secondhand shop.
We have found an eco store where the only clothing they sell is made from undyed and unbleached linen, wool and jute.
It shouldn’t matter that it looks good on her, or that she is going to be laughed at, dressing in colorless, bland clothes and without a wireless bra, but that is the price she has to pay for the benefit of The Climate.
Cotton is out of the question, as it comes from distant lands and pesticides are used for it. Very bad for the environment.
We just saw on her Instagram that she’s pretty angry with us. This was not our intention.
From now on, at 7 p.m. we will turn off the WiFi and we will only switch it on again the next day after dinner for two hours. In this way we will save on electricity, so she is not bothered by electro-stress and will be totally isolated from the outside world. This way, she can concentrate solely on her homework. At eleven o’clock in the evening we will pull the breaker to shut the power off to her room, so she knows that dark is really dark. That will save a lot of CO2.
She will no longer be participating in winter sports to ski lodges and resorts, nor will she be going on anymore vacations with us, because our vacation destinations are practically inaccessible by bicycle.
Since our daughter fully agrees with the girl on TV that the CO2 emissions and footprints of her great-grandparents are to blame for ‘killing our planet’, what all this simply means, is that she also has to live like her great-grandparents and they never had a holiday, a car or even a bicycle.
We haven’t talked about the carbon footprint of food yet.
Zero CO2 footprint means no meat, no fish and no poultry, but also no meat substitutes that are based on soy (after all, that grows in farmers fields, that use machinery to harvest the beans, trucks to transport to the processing plants, where more energy is used, then trucked to the packaging/canning plants, and trucked once again to the stores) and also no imported food, because that has a negative ecological effect. And absolutely no chocolate from Africa, no coffee from South America and no tea from Asia.
Only homegrown potatoes, vegetables and fruit that have been grown in local cold soil, because greenhouses run on boilers, piped in CO2 and artificial light. Apparently, these things are also bad for The Climate. We will teach her how to grow her own food.
Bread is still possible, but butter, milk, cheese and yogurt, cottage cheese and cream come from cows and they emit CO2. No more margarine and no oils will be used for the frying pan, because that fat is palm oil from plantations in Borneo where rain forests first grew.
No ice cream in the summer. No soft drinks and no energy drinks, as the bubbles are CO2. She wanted to lose some pounds, well, this will help her achieve that goal too.
We will also ban all plastic, because it comes from chemical factories. Everything made of steel and aluminum must also be removed. Have you ever seen the amount of energy a blast furnace consumes or an aluminum smelter? Uber bad for the climate!
We will replace her 9600 coil, memory foam pillow top mattress, with a jute bag filled with straw,with a horse hair pillow.
And finally, she will no longer be using makeup, soap, shampoo, cream, lotion, conditioner, toothpaste and medication. Her sanitary napkins will be replaced with pads made of linen, that she can wash by hand, with her wooden washboard, just like her female ancestors did before climate change made her angry at us for destroying her future.
In this way we will help her to do her part to prevent mass extinction, water levels rising and the disappearance of entire ecosystems.
If she truly believes she wants to walk the talk of the girl on TV, she will gladly accept and happily embrace her new way of life.
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The Cat has a vision for NSW and the medium is the message.
“The one-to-a-market rule needs to be abolished; and the affiliates should be able to come together and not have journalism constantly under threat,” Catalano told CBD.
“The government wants a healthy and robust regional media because that’s the only way regional Australians can stay informed about what’s happening in their areas.
“It doesn’t want three crippled networks struggling for survival.”
SMH
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